Subject: Re: [Spridgets] [External] Roller bearings...again

From: "Orkin, Jack L via Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:15:17 +0000

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Hello David, you are right about the weakness of the stub axle without the =
spacer.  But, your information is 50 yrs. old.  With the new roller bearing=
 kits you keep the spacer.  I went with the rollers after I replaced the ba=
ll bearings and there was too much endplay and no way to adjust.  With the =
rollers you can shim them for proper end play.  I only have about 5000 mile=
s on them but they seem to be working just fine.  Many people prefer the ba=
ll bearings but I think the new roller kits are a reasonable alternative.  =
(my view is from a street use, not racing.  I have no experience with racin=
g set ups.)

Here is an article that explains exactly what you were mentioning:

https://www.mgexp.com/article/mg-midget-and-sprite-front-wheel-bearings.271

Jack
[https://www.asnstatic.com/article/mgb/mg-midget-wheel-bearings/original-be=
arings.jpg]<https://www.mgexp.com/article/mg-midget-and-sprite-front-wheel-=
bearings.271>
MG Midget & Sprite Front Wheel Bearings : How-To Library : The MG Experienc=
e<https://www.mgexp.com/article/mg-midget-and-sprite-front-wheel-bearings.2=
71>
Here's an interesting thing: there should be no reason why tapered roller b=
earings could not be used in the Midget hub. If the inner bearing that is u=
sed has the necessary 2mm radius to clear the base of the stub axle, and if=
 the whole assembly is shimmed properly, using the spacer between the two b=
earings (following the MGB shimming procedure).
www.mgexp.com

________________________________
From: Spridgets <[email-masked]> on behalf of David Doiro=
n via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 10:49 PM
To: Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Subject: [External] [Spridgets] Roller bearings...again

Dear List,
Every so often the old chestnut of putting roller bearings in the
front hubs of Sprites is resurrected.
Seems like a good idea no?

NO!!!

Just saw it again in an article in the November Healey Marque on
converting a Sprite to disc brakes. Here is my experience.
When I changed my Sprite to front disc brakes back in the mid 60s,
I went right out and got the roller bearings and did that conversion
as well.

And then I broke a swivel axle. "Bad part" I thought, and fitted a
new one. Some months later the other side broke.

Then the old heads at the shop clued me in:
The weak link in the Sprite front suspension is NOT the bearing!
I went back to the ball bearings WITH the correct distance piece,
and have in the following 53 years put a cumulative 450,000 miles on
3 of my Sprites. There have been no further swivel axle failures.

The "why" goes something like this:
Ball bearings with spacer done up tight give the swivel axle an
effective diameter that includes the inner races as well as the spacer.
Roller bearings cannot use the spacer, so the net size of the swivel
axle (read "strength") is effectively less than factory design.

Add to that the age of the parts, the variation in the materials over
the years, and (the biggie) the wider tires used today.

The risk of breaking a swivel axle is greatly increased with roller bearing=
s,
UNLESS you NEVER drive the car in a Spritely manner!

In both of the cases where my swivel axles broke, steering became unpredict=
able.
If I had been on a mountain road, or crossed over into opposing traffic,
my fate would have also been unpredictable.

The original designers at Austin had it right.

Please call with any questions,
W David Doiron...ex BMC mechanic
602-550-3583
------------------------

[email-masked]

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: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hello&nbsp;David, you are right about the weakness of the stub axle without=
 the spacer.&nbsp; But, your information is 50 yrs. old.&nbsp; With the new=
 roller bearing kits you keep the spacer.&nbsp; I went with the rollers aft=
er I replaced the ball bearings and there was too much
 endplay and no way to adjust.&nbsp; With the rollers you can shim them for=
 proper end play.&nbsp; I only have about 5000 miles on them but they seem =
to be working just fine.&nbsp; Many people prefer the ball bearings but I t=
hink the new roller kits are a reasonable alternative.&nbsp;
 (my view is from a street use, not racing.&nbsp; I have no experience with=
 racing set ups.)&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Here is an article that explains exactly what y<span style=3D"color: rgb(0,=
 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt=
;">ou were mention</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: C=
alibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">ing:</span></div>
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<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><a href=3D"https://www.mgexp.com/article/mg-=
midget-and-sprite-front-wheel-bearings.271" id=3D"LPlnkOWALinkPreview">http=
s://www.mgexp.com/article/mg-midget-and-sprite-front-wheel-bearings.271</a>=
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Jack</div>
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/article/mg-midget-and-sprite-front-wheel-bearings.271" style=3D"text-decor=
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l Bearings : How-To Library : The MG Experience</a></div>
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I&quot;, &quot;Segoe WP&quot;, Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 12=
px; margin-right: 8px; overflow: hidden;">
Here's an interesting thing: there should be no reason why tapered roller b=
earings could not be used in the Midget hub. If the inner bearing that is u=
sed has the necessary 2mm radius to clear the base of the stub axle, and if=
 the whole assembly is shimmed properly,
 using the spacer between the two bearings (following the MGB shimming proc=
edure).</div>
<div id=3D"LPMetadata131203" style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(166, 166, 166); font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, &quot;Segoe UI&qu=
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www.mgexp.com</div>
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<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Spridgets &lt;spridge=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of David Doiron via Spridgets &lt;s=
[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 25, 2021 10:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Spridgets &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] [Spridgets] Roller bearings...again</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"=
<div class=3D"PlainText">Dear List, <br>
Every so often the old chestnut of putting roller bearings in the <br>
front hubs of Sprites is resurrected. <br>
Seems like a good idea no? <br>
<br>
NO!!!<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Just saw it again in an article in the November Healey Marque on <br>
converting a Sprite to disc brakes. Here is my experience.<br>
When I changed my Sprite to front disc brakes back in the mid 60s, <br>
I went right out and got the roller bearings and did that conversion <br>
as well. <br>
<br>
And then I broke a swivel axle. &quot;Bad part&quot; I thought, and fitted =
a <br>
new one. Some months later the other side broke. <br>
<br>
Then the old heads at the shop clued me in: <br>
The weak link in the Sprite front suspension is NOT the bearing! <br>
I went back to the ball bearings WITH the correct distance piece, <br>
and have in the following 53 years put a cumulative 450,000 miles on<br>
3 of my Sprites. There have been no further swivel axle failures. <br>
<br>
The &quot;why&quot; goes something like this: <br>
Ball bearings with spacer done up tight give the swivel axle an <br>
effective diameter that includes the inner races as well as the spacer. <br=
Roller bearings cannot use the spacer, so the net size of the swivel <br>
axle (read &quot;strength&quot;) is effectively less than factory design. <=
br>
<br>
Add to that the age of the parts, the variation in the materials over <br>
the years, and (the biggie) the wider tires used today. <br>
<br>
The risk of breaking a swivel axle is greatly increased with roller bearing=
s, <br>
UNLESS you NEVER drive the car in a Spritely manner! <br>
<br>
In both of the cases where my swivel axles broke, steering became unpredict=
able. <br>
If I had been on a mountain road, or crossed over into opposing traffic, <b=
r>
my fate would have also been unpredictable.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
The original designers at Austin had it right.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Please call with any questions,&nbsp; <br>
W David Doiron...ex BMC mechanic <br>
602-550-3583<br>
------------------------<br>
<br>
[email-masked]<br>
<br>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: David Lieb via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 08:23:16 -0500

--===============4220625889329264223==

--000000000000174d4705cf416283

And for the record, the torque necessary to effectively strengthen the stub
axle with the spacer would strip the threads. To say nothing of the fact
that the spacer itself is just a piece of cast aluminum. I used Timken
roller bearings in the front hubs of my 1972 Midget with no spacers and ran
MANY autocrosses and tens of thousands of highway miles and Chicagoland
potholes with NO problems whatsoever. Including autocrosses with Yokohama
A08 race tires that were so grippy that I was doing lefthand skidpads on
two wheels! All that stress and not a single broken stub. Perhaps by 1972
the stub axles were as much stronger as the half-shafts in the rear were?
Perhaps we should be using 1500 stub axles for replacements?
David Lieb

--000000000000174d4705cf416283
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">And for the record, the torque necessary =
to effectively strengthen the stub axle with the spacer would strip the thr=
eads. To say nothing of the fact that the spacer itself is just a piece of =
cast aluminum. I used Timken roller bearings in the front hubs of my 1972 M=
idget with no spacers and ran MANY autocrosses and tens of thousands of hig=
hway miles and Chicagoland potholes with NO problems whatsoever. Including =
autocrosses with Yokohama A08 race tires that were so grippy that I was doi=
ng lefthand skidpads on two wheels! All that stress and not a single broken=
 stub. Perhaps by 1972 the stub axles were as much stronger as the half-sha=
fts in the rear were? Perhaps we should be using 1500 stub axles for replac=
ements? <br></div>David Lieb<br></div>

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