Subject: Re: [Spridgets] SU rebuild time

From: Hal Faulkner via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:40:58 -0700

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Mike, The re-build kit probably doesn't include the needle. Needles for a
1098 will probably not be correct for a 1275, and different cams/porting
will also require different needles.  Check the "Yellow Bible" for more
information.
Be very careful about the glass beading.  The inner surface of the dashpot
mates withe the piston to be part of the acceleration enrichment: if you
mess with the mating surfaces you may change the action and this could
throw your two carbs out of balance.
Can't help you with getting the "piston" out.
Good luck,
Hal

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Mike Rambour via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>  Ok, new son-in-law is trying to get his toy running and some of the parts
> have been sitting for years out in the rain.
>
>  First up, the SU carbs.  I have NEVER played with a SU except minor
> tuning or to replace with a Weber, this time we are sticking with SU's.
> Yes, they sat in the rain 2 years at least of course barrels up and were
> frozen solid, using wooden dowel and some brass punches we got them apart
> after letting them soak in Kroil for a week.  I think everything is
> re-buildable.
>
>  One of the issues we came up with is that the dashpot plunger was stuck
> in the carb, we finally got most of it out but it left the piston (for lack
> of a better name) in the hole, I guess we pulled too hard and snapped off
> the little circlip and now what ? Its really stuck in there and its in
> there deep.  Can't get to it from the other side so not sure what to do.  I
> was thinking of trying to get a screw into it and pull it but that of
> course implies I can get a new one, I suppose I could drill it out also but
> that requires more accuracy than I might be able to do but I do have a
> lathe/mill I could use for the task. (it seems my machining tends to be +/-
> 0.25" accuracy not a typo :)  )
>
>  We got the full blown rebuild kit on its way, everything we should need
> and tonight I will glass bead everything but that plunger in there is a
> problem.  Also not knowing better what is in that housing that the dashpot
> plunger goes into ? the other side has the long needle sticking out is
> there supposed to be a opening from one side to the next besides the
> obvious 2 holes on the side, there is hex screw looking thing near the 2
> holes, should I remove that and what is it ?  I am hoping that in the super
> duper $200 rebuild kit is a new needle because i damaged one getting it out
> (after removing the screw on the side).   The carbs came off a 1098 and are
> going on his 1275 as soon as we put it together :)
>
>  We have a issue with the head on the 1275 right now, the brass insert
> between cylinders 2&3 is recessed causing a head gasket leak and allowing
> water into the cylinders, even the insert leaks so I have to find a shop
> that is trustworthy here in S. Calif. to get it out, thread a new insert
> and machine it.  Getting down the last few details and maybe this motor
> will be together in a month.
>
>  Mike
>
> --
> A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have it,
> you'll probably never need one again.
>
> ------------------------
>
> [email-masked]
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Mike, The re-build kit probably doesn&#39;t=
 include the needle. Needles for a 1098 will probably not be correct for a =
1275, and different cams/porting will also require different needles.=C2=A0=
 Check the &quot;Yellow Bible&quot; for more information.<br>Be very carefu=
l about the glass beading.=C2=A0 The inner surface of the dashpot mates wit=
he the piston to be part of the acceleration enrichment: if you mess with t=
he mating surfaces you may change the action and this could throw your two =
carbs out of balance.=C2=A0 <br></div>Can&#39;t help you with getting the &=
quot;piston&quot; out.=C2=A0 <br></div>Good luck,<br></div>Hal<br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 13, 2016=
 at 8:26 AM, Mike Rambour via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=C2=A0Ok, new son-in=
-law is trying to get his toy running and some of the parts have been sitti=
ng for years out in the rain.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0First up, the SU carbs.=C2=A0 I have NEVER played with a SU except mi=
nor tuning or to replace with a Weber, this time we are sticking with SU&#3=
9;s.=C2=A0 Yes, they sat in the rain 2 years at least of course barrels up =
and were frozen solid, using wooden dowel and some brass punches we got the=
m apart after letting them soak in Kroil for a week.=C2=A0 I think everythi=
ng is re-buildable.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0One of the issues we came up with is that the dashpot plunger was stu=
ck in the carb, we finally got most of it out but it left the piston (for l=
ack of a better name) in the hole, I guess we pulled too hard and snapped o=
ff the little circlip and now what ? Its really stuck in there and its in t=
here deep.=C2=A0 Can&#39;t get to it from the other side so not sure what t=
o do.=C2=A0 I was thinking of trying to get a screw into it and pull it but=
 that of course implies I can get a new one, I suppose I could drill it out=
 also but that requires more accuracy than I might be able to do but I do h=
ave a lathe/mill I could use for the task. (it seems my machining tends to =
be +/- 0.25&quot; accuracy not a typo :)=C2=A0 )<br>
<br>
=C2=A0We got the full blown rebuild kit on its way, everything we should ne=
ed and tonight I will glass bead everything but that plunger in there is a =
problem.=C2=A0 Also not knowing better what is in that housing that the das=
hpot plunger goes into ? the other side has the long needle sticking out is=
 there supposed to be a opening from one side to the next besides the obvio=
us 2 holes on the side, there is hex screw looking thing near the 2 holes, =
should I remove that and what is it ?=C2=A0 I am hoping that in the super d=
uper $200 rebuild kit is a new needle because i damaged one getting it out =
(after removing the screw on the side).=C2=A0 =C2=A0The carbs came off a 10=
98 and are going on his 1275 as soon as we put it together :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0We have a issue with the head on the 1275 right now, the brass insert=
 between cylinders 2&amp;3 is recessed causing a head gasket leak and allow=
ing water into the cylinders, even the insert leaks so I have to find a sho=
p that is trustworthy here in S. Calif. to get it out, thread a new insert =
and machine it.=C2=A0 Getting down the last few details and maybe this moto=
r will be together in a month.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0Mike<br>
<br>
-- <br>
A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don&#39;t have it,<br>
you&#39;ll probably never need one again.<br>
<br>
------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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eam.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Mike Rambour via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 07:51:05 -0700

Yup, it does not include the needle, so now I have to hunt those 
down.  Going with "standard" cams/porting/pistons, etc. and bore is only 
ten over, nothing hot, just a good runner we hope.

  I am worried about the piston and inner surface of the dashpot, I know 
better than to glass bead those areas but they have corrosion on them 
and I will clean that up differently but it may be more corrosion than I 
can clean up and still use the parts.  We will see, I taped off the 
piston parts and inside of the dashpot along with some other areas I was 
not sure of and also used some silicone plugs for some of the holes in 
the carbs and started blasting them last night, outsides look GOOD now :)

  Ok, what is the yellow bible ? guess I need yet another manual :)

     mike

On 6/13/2016 6:40 PM, Hal Faulkner via Spridgets wrote:
> Mike, The re-build kit probably doesn't include the needle. Needles 
> for a 1098 will probably not be correct for a 1275, and different 
> cams/porting will also require different needles.  Check the "Yellow 
> Bible" for more information.
> Be very careful about the glass beading.  The inner surface of the 
> dashpot mates withe the piston to be part of the acceleration 
> enrichment: if you mess with the mating surfaces you may change the 
> action and this could throw your two carbs out of balance.

------------------------

[email-masked]

---

From: Hal Faulkner via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 14:56:46 -0700

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--001a114c8f92d3826405354414e2

Mike,
Yellow bible is David Vizard's book om tuning the A Series engine.
You can probably get the info you need *re*, which needle to use from APT,
who are in your neck of the woods.  David Anton who owns APT was David
Vizard's partner in the early days.   They can also supply you with
Vizard's book.  I personally would recommend NOT buying it as it would
likely delay your project by years and cost you thousands of dollars. Don't
ask me how I know!
Hal

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Mike Rambour via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>
>  Yup, it does not include the needle, so now I have to hunt those down.
> Going with "standard" cams/porting/pistons, etc. and bore is only ten over,
> nothing hot, just a good runner we hope.
>
> better than to glass bead those areas but they have corrosion on them and I
> will clean that up differently but it may be more corrosion than I can
> clean up and still use the parts.  We will see, I taped off the piston
> parts and inside of the dashpot along with some other areas I was not sure
> of and also used some silicone plugs for some of the holes in the carbs and
> started blasting them last night, outsides look GOOD now :)
>
>> dashpot mates withe the piston to be part of the acceleration enrichment:
>> if you mess with the mating surfaces you may change the action and this
>> could throw your two carbs out of balance.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Mike,<br></div>Yellow bible is David Vizard=
&#39;s book om tuning the A Series engine.<br></div>You can probably get th=
e info you need <i>re</i>, which needle to use from APT, who are in your ne=
ck of the woods.=C2=A0 David Anton who owns APT was David Vizard&#39;s part=
ner in the early days. =C2=A0 They can also supply you with Vizard&#39;s bo=
ok.=C2=A0 I personally would recommend NOT buying it as it would likely del=
ay your project by years and cost you thousands of dollars. Don&#39;t ask m=
e how I know!<br></div>Hal<br><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Mike Ram=
bour via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.=
team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
=C2=A0Yup, it does not include the needle, so now I have to hunt those down=
.=C2=A0 Going with &quot;standard&quot; cams/porting/pistons, etc. and bore=
 is only ten over, nothing hot, just a good runner we hope.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0I am worried about the piston and inner surface of the dashpot, I kno=
w better than to glass bead those areas but they have corrosion on them and=
 I will clean that up differently but it may be more corrosion than I can c=
lean up and still use the parts.=C2=A0 We will see, I taped off the piston =
parts and inside of the dashpot along with some other areas I was not sure =
of and also used some silicone plugs for some of the holes in the carbs and=
 started blasting them last night, outsides look GOOD now :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0Ok, what is the yellow bible ? guess I need yet another manual :)<spa=
n class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mike</font></span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
On 6/13/2016 6:40 PM, Hal Faulkner via Spridgets wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Mike, The re-build kit probably doesn&#39;t include the needle. Needles for=
 a 1098 will probably not be correct for a 1275, and different cams/porting=
 will also require different needles.=C2=A0 Check the &quot;Yellow Bible&qu=
ot; for more information.<br>
Be very careful about the glass beading.=C2=A0 The inner surface of the das=
hpot mates withe the piston to be part of the acceleration enrichment: if y=
ou mess with the mating surfaces you may change the action and this could t=
hrow your two carbs out of balance.<br>
Can&#39;t help you with getting the &quot;piston&quot; out.<br>
Good luck,<br>
Hal<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
-- <br>
A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don&#39;t have it,<br>
you&#39;ll probably never need one again.<br>
<br>
------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
ets/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: John Farley via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:57:32 -0400

--===============3220478617356220684==

--001a113560a41d5dbd053544ee58

Mike, I think you are referring to the "Piston Lifting Pin".  It allows you
to lift the main carb piston slightly to tune the rich / lean setting
without removing the air cleaner.  Half the SUs out there have a broken one
like you describe.  You just have to remove the air cleaner and lift the
piston slightly with your finger when setting the needle rich / lean nut.

The 1098 and 1275 needles are different for an HS-2.  They are easily
changed in the piston.  Most folks start with a "standard" needle, but
doesn't always work.  I ended up with a "rich" needle on my 1275.

Rebuilding these carbs are straight forward.  One key, check for wear on
the throttle shafts and where they go through the carb body.  Can't be
sloppy.   Worn throttle shafts are easily replaced.  The carb casting can
be bushed, but can be difficult.  If sloppy, I would try new shafts first.

Good Luck,
John F.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Hal Faulkner via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>>  Ok, new son-in-law is trying to get his toy running and some of the
>> parts have been sitting for years out in the rain.
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Mike, I think you are referring to the &quot;Piston Liftin=
g Pin&quot;.=C2=A0 It allows you to lift the main carb piston slightly to t=
une the rich / lean setting without removing the air cleaner.=C2=A0 Half th=
e SUs out there have a broken one like you describe.=C2=A0 You just have to=
 remove the air cleaner and lift the piston slightly with your finger when =
setting the needle rich / lean nut.<div><br></div><div>The 1098 and 1275 ne=
edles are different for an HS-2.=C2=A0 They are easily changed in the pisto=
n.=C2=A0 Most folks start with a &quot;standard&quot; needle, but doesn&#39=
;t always work.=C2=A0 I ended up with a &quot;rich&quot; needle on my 1275.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Rebuilding these carbs are straight forward.=C2=
=A0 One key, check for wear on the throttle shafts and where they go throug=
h the carb body.=C2=A0 Can&#39;t be sloppy. =C2=A0 Worn throttle shafts are=
 easily replaced.=C2=A0 The carb casting can be bushed, but can be difficul=
t.=C2=A0 If sloppy, I would try new shafts first.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Good Luck,</div><div>John F.=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Hal Faulkner =
via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Mike, The re-b=
uild kit probably doesn&#39;t include the needle. Needles for a 1098 will p=
robably not be correct for a 1275, and different cams/porting will also req=
uire different needles.=C2=A0 Check the &quot;Yellow Bible&quot; for more i=
nformation.<br>Be very careful about the glass beading.=C2=A0 The inner sur=
face of the dashpot mates withe the piston to be part of the acceleration e=
nrichment: if you mess with the mating surfaces you may change the action a=
nd this could throw your two carbs out of balance.=C2=A0 <br></div>Can&#39;=
t help you with getting the &quot;piston&quot; out.=C2=A0 <br></div>Good lu=
ck,<br></div>Hal<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Mike Rambour via Spridgets <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">=C2=A0Ok, new son-in-law is trying to get his toy running and some=
 of the parts have been sitting for years out in the rain.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0First up, the SU carbs.=C2=A0 I have NEVER played with a SU except mi=
nor tuning or to replace with a Weber, this time we are sticking with SU&#3=
9;s.=C2=A0 Yes, they sat in the rain 2 years at least of course barrels up =
and were frozen solid, using wooden dowel and some brass punches we got the=
m apart after letting them soak in Kroil for a week.=C2=A0 I think everythi=
ng is re-buildable.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0One of the issues we came up with is that the dashpot plunger was stu=
ck in the carb, we finally got most of it out but it left the piston (for l=
ack of a better name) in the hole, I guess we pulled too hard and snapped o=
ff the little circlip and now what ? Its really stuck in there and its in t=
here deep.=C2=A0 Can&#39;t get to it from the other side so not sure what t=
o do.=C2=A0 I was thinking of trying to get a screw into it and pull it but=
 that of course implies I can get a new one, I suppose I could drill it out=
 also but that requires more accuracy than I might be able to do but I do h=
ave a lathe/mill I could use for the task. (it seems my machining tends to =
be +/- 0.25&quot; accuracy not a typo :)=C2=A0 )<br>
<br>
=C2=A0We got the full blown rebuild kit on its way, everything we should ne=
ed and tonight I will glass bead everything but that plunger in there is a =
problem.=C2=A0 Also not knowing better what is in that housing that the das=
hpot plunger goes into ? the other side has the long needle sticking out is=
 there supposed to be a opening from one side to the next besides the obvio=
us 2 holes on the side, there is hex screw looking thing near the 2 holes, =
should I remove that and what is it ?=C2=A0 I am hoping that in the super d=
uper $200 rebuild kit is a new needle because i damaged one getting it out =
(after removing the screw on the side).=C2=A0 =C2=A0The carbs came off a 10=
98 and are going on his 1275 as soon as we put it together :)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0We have a issue with the head on the 1275 right now, the brass insert=
 between cylinders 2&amp;3 is recessed causing a head gasket leak and allow=
ing water into the cylinders, even the insert leaks so I have to find a sho=
p that is trustworthy here in S. Calif. to get it out, thread a new insert =
and machine it.=C2=A0 Getting down the last few details and maybe this moto=
r will be together in a month.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0Mike<br>
<br>
-- <br>
A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don&#39;t have it,<br>
you&#39;ll probably never need one again.<br>
<br>
------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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ets/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>------------------------<br>
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