Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Master Cylinders

From: GUY DAY via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 08:03:30 +0000 (UTC)

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Rick,You said <snip> 'And I've heard that some of the currently available n=
ew master cylinders come with a proviso in their warranty stating that the =
warranty is void if silicone fluid is used.' =C2=A0<snip> perhaps you could=
 be more informative and say which new master cylinders have this slippery =
warranty avoiding comment? =C2=A0It would appear to be a very poor quality =
master cylinder that can't use it and I wouldn't like to avoid using such d=
ung forged cr*p.However, if the master cylinders are to be used with an ABS=
 system this would be right as silicone viscosity is such that ABS struggle=
s to cope with the restitution phases at 32hz plus.=C2=A0
A master cylinder is a pump, plain and simple. =C2=A0If they are not pumpin=
g they are faulty. =C2=A0If they have been just been re-sealed by one perso=
n there can be a problem in how the seals are located or positioned and if =
it is happening to both master cylinders it would suggest something as dras=
tic as having the main seals the wrong way round! =C2=A0The limiting pressu=
re in the clutch may support this thought. =C2=A0Without more information i=
t is hard to comment.
Guy R Day

=C2=A0=C2=A0
=20

    On Monday, 18 April 2016, 2:13, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <spridgets@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:
=20

 Hi Bob,
Everyone else must be out driving their cars. =C2=A0Or out in the garage wo=
rking on them. =C2=A0:-)
I would not bother trying to rebuild the master cylinders. =C2=A0Replace th=
em with new components. =C2=A0Much less hassle and a better chance of succe=
ss. =C2=A0You've already replaced the Bugeye stuff with later components so=
 you don't have to worry about originality.
That said, I would also use regular brake fluid. =C2=A0I've never cared for=
 the silicone stuff. =C2=A0And I've heard that some of the currently availa=
ble new master cylinders come with a proviso in their warranty stating that=
 the warranty is void if silicone fluid is used.
Rick

Sent from my keyboard
On Apr 17, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Bob Kitterer via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:

OK, I am at my wits end tiring to get the hydraulics to work. =C2=A0So who =
/ where should I go to get the master cylinders rebuilt which may mean rebo=
ring. =C2=A0I have separate masters for the brakes and the clutch, early Sp=
rite MK IV. =C2=A0Also am using silicon brake fluid.
Recently honed and put new seals in both masters, brake and slave cylinders=
 and disk calipers. =C2=A0Am getting no fluid movement in the brakes. =C2=
=A0Have fluid in the clutch slave but not enough pressure to move the slave=
 cylinder. =C2=A0The clutch slave has Gerard's remote bleed valve an fluid =
moves through this valve with no air.

Bob =C2=A0Kitterer
1960 Austin Healey Sprite=C2=A0(Mk IV in disguise)1966 Austin Healey Sprite=
 Mk=C2=A0III (Trevor) - still in boxes2013 Miata
Pay it ForwardThanks Frank

------------------------

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
chartermi.net

------------------------

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
tinternet.com

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<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, =
Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697=
" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11714">Rick,</spa=
n></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><span=
 id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_12719">You said &lt;snip&gt; '</span=
><span style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial=
, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14=
60963804896_11927">And I've heard that some of the currently available new =
master cylinders come with a proviso in their warranty stating that the war=
ranty is void if silicone fluid is used.' &nbsp;</span>&lt;snip&gt; perhaps=
 you could be more informative and say which new master cylinders have this=
 slippery warranty avoiding comment? &nbsp;It would appear to be a very poo=
r quality master cylinder that can't use it and I wouldn't like to avoid us=
ing such dung forged cr*p.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_=
11697" dir=3D"ltr">However, if the master cylinders are to be used with an =
ABS system this would be right as silicone viscosity is such that ABS strug=
gles to cope with the restitution phases at 32hz plus.&nbsp;</div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D=
"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr">A master cylinder is a =
pump, plain and simple. &nbsp;If they are not pumping they are faulty. &nbs=
p;If they have been just been re-sealed by one person there can be a proble=
m in how the seals are located or positioned and if it is happening to both=
 master cylinders it would suggest something as drastic as having the main =
seals the wrong way round! &nbsp;The limiting pressure in the clutch may su=
pport this thought. &nbsp;Without more information it is hard to comment.</=
div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div=
><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr">Guy R Day</d=
iv><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>=
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><di=
v id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;</di=
v><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div> =
<div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" styl=
e=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div =
style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Luci=
da Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2"=
 face=3D"Arial"> On Monday, 18 April 2016, 2:13, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br></font></div>  <br><br> <div class=
=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv4594770969"><div><div>Hi Bob,</div><div>=
<br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Everyone else must be out driving their cars.=
 &nbsp;Or out in the garage working on them. &nbsp;:-)</div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>I would not bother trying to rebuild the master cylind=
ers. &nbsp;Replace them with new components. &nbsp;Much less hassle and a b=
etter chance of success. &nbsp;You've already replaced the Bugeye stuff wit=
h later components so you don't have to worry about originality.</div><div>=
<br clear=3D"none"></div><div>That said, I would also use regular brake flu=
id. &nbsp;I've never cared for the silicone stuff. &nbsp;And I've heard tha=
t some of the currently available new master cylinders come with a proviso =
in their warranty stating that the warranty is void if silicone fluid is us=
ed.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Rick<br clear=3D"none"><br clea=
r=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard</div><div class=3D"yiv4594770969yqt3604376=
065" id=3D"yiv4594770969yqt85583"><div><br clear=3D"none">On Apr 17, 2016, =
at 4:19 PM, Bob Kitterer via Spridgets &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rec=
t" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br c=
lear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div></div=
></blockquote></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv4594770969yqt3604376065" id=
=3D"yiv4594770969yqt76619"><div>OK, I am at my wits end tiring to get the h=
ydraulics to work. &nbsp;So who / where should I go to get the master cylin=
ders rebuilt which may mean reboring. &nbsp;I have separate masters for the=
 brakes and the clutch, early Sprite MK IV. &nbsp;Also am using silicon bra=
ke fluid.</div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature">Recently honed and put=
 new seals in both masters, brake and slave cylinders and disk calipers. &n=
bsp;Am getting no fluid movement in the brakes. &nbsp;Have fluid in the clu=
tch slave but not enough pressure to move the slave cylinder. &nbsp;The clu=
tch slave has Gerard's remote bleed valve an fluid moves through this valve=
 with no air.</div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><br clear=3D=
"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><br clear=3D"none"=
></div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"">Bob &nb=
sp;Kitterer</span><div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;"><br clear=3D"none"><=
/span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;">1960 Austin Healey Sprite&=
nbsp;(Mk IV in disguise)</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;">1=
966 Austin Healey Sprite Mk&nbsp;III (Trevor) - still in boxes</span></div>=
<div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;">2013 Miata</span></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13pt;"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13pt;">Pay it Forward</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:13=
pt;">Thanks Frank</span><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><=
/div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>------------------------</span><b=
r clear=3D"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span><a rel=3D"nofollow" =
shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></sp=
an><br clear=3D"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>Donate: <a rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br clear=3D"none"><=
span>Suggested annual donation: $12.75</span><br clear=3D"none"><span></spa=
n><br clear=3D"none"><span>Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" targ=
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0">------------------------<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=
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------------------------

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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---

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 07:43:40 -0400

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Guy,

It's mentioned in this thread at about post 53.  I've heard it other places t=
oo.  Manufacturers mentioned that don't like silicone brake fluid are TRW an=
d Delphi.  Little fly-by-night operations. =20

http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?1,3161136,3165850#msg-3165850

Master cylinders are indeed simple pumps - simple pumps with seals and some s=
eals apparently don't like silicone.  =20

Sent from my keyboard

> On Apr 18, 2016, at 4:03 AM, GUY DAY <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Rick,
> You said <snip> 'And I've heard that some of the currently available new m=
aster cylinders come with a proviso in their warranty stating that the warra=
nty is void if silicone fluid is used.'  <snip> perhaps you could be more in=
formative and say which new master cylinders have this slippery warranty avo=
iding comment?  It would appear to be a very poor quality master cylinder th=
at can't use it and I wouldn't like to avoid using such dung forged cr*p.
> However, if the master cylinders are to be used with an ABS system this wo=
uld be right as silicone viscosity is such that ABS struggles to cope with t=
he restitution phases at 32hz plus.=20
>=20
> A master cylinder is a pump, plain and simple.  If they are not pumping th=
ey are faulty.  If they have been just been re-sealed by one person there ca=
n be a problem in how the seals are located or positioned and if it is happe=
ning to both master cylinders it would suggest something as drastic as havin=
g the main seals the wrong way round!  The limiting pressure in the clutch m=
ay support this thought.  Without more information it is hard to comment.
>=20
> Guy R Day
>=20
>=20
>  =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Monday, 18 April 2016, 2:13, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
eam.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi Bob,
>=20
> Everyone else must be out driving their cars.  Or out in the garage workin=
g on them.  :-)
>=20
> I would not bother trying to rebuild the master cylinders.  Replace them w=
ith new components.  Much less hassle and a better chance of success.  You'v=
e already replaced the Bugeye stuff with later components so you don't have t=
o worry about originality.
>=20
> That said, I would also use regular brake fluid.  I've never cared for the=
 silicone stuff.  And I've heard that some of the currently available new ma=
ster cylinders come with a proviso in their warranty stating that the warran=
ty is void if silicone fluid is used.
>=20
> Rick
>=20
> Sent from my keyboard
>=20
>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Bob Kitterer via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.=
team.net> wrote:
>>=20
>=20
> OK, I am at my wits end tiring to get the hydraulics to work.  So who / wh=
ere should I go to get the master cylinders rebuilt which may mean reboring.=
  I have separate masters for the brakes and the clutch, early Sprite MK IV.=
  Also am using silicon brake fluid.
>=20
> Recently honed and put new seals in both masters, brake and slave cylinder=
s and disk calipers.  Am getting no fluid movement in the brakes.  Have flui=
d in the clutch slave but not enough pressure to move the slave cylinder.  T=
he clutch slave has Gerard's remote bleed valve an fluid moves through this v=
alve with no air.
>=20
>=20
> Bob  Kitterer
>=20
> 1960 Austin Healey Sprite (Mk IV in disguise)
> 1966 Austin Healey Sprite Mk III (Trevor) - still in boxes
> 2013 Miata
>=20
> Pay it Forward
> Thanks Frank
>=20
>> ------------------------
>>=20
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>=20
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/refis=
[email-masked]
>=20
> ------------------------
>=20
> [email-masked]
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>=20
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/grday@=
btinternet.com

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Guy,</div><div><br></div><div>It's men=
tioned in this thread at about post 53. &nbsp;I've heard it other places too=
. &nbsp;Manufacturers mentioned that don't like silicone brake fluid are TRW=
 and Delphi. &nbsp;Little fly-by-night operations. &nbsp;</div><div><br></di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?1,3161136,3165850#msg=
-3165850">http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?1,3161136,3165850#msg-3165850=
</a></div><div><br></div><div>Master cylinders are indeed simple pumps - sim=
ple pumps with seals and some seals apparently don't like silicone. &nbsp;&n=
bsp;<br><br>Sent from my keyboard</div><div><br>On Apr 18, 2016, at 4:03 AM,=
 GUY DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color=
:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Hel=
vetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16=
_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_146=
0963804896_11714">Rick,</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14609638048=
96_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_12719">You=
 said &lt;snip&gt; '</span><span style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Se=
goe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11927">And I've heard that some of the c=
urrently available new master cylinders come with a proviso in their warrant=
y stating that the warranty is void if silicone fluid is used.' &nbsp;</span=
>&lt;snip&gt; perhaps you could be more informative and say which new master=
 cylinders have this slippery warranty avoiding comment? &nbsp;It would appe=
ar to be a very poor quality master cylinder that can't use it and I wouldn'=
t like to avoid using such dung forged cr*p.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19=
_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr">However, if the master cylinders are to b=
e used with an ABS system this would be right as silicone viscosity is such t=
hat ABS struggles to cope with the restitution phases at 32hz plus.&nbsp;</d=
iv><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><=
div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr">A master cylind=
er is a pump, plain and simple. &nbsp;If they are not pumping they are fault=
y. &nbsp;If they have been just been re-sealed by one person there can be a p=
roblem in how the seals are located or positioned and if it is happening to b=
oth master cylinders it would suggest something as drastic as having the mai=
n seals the wrong way round! &nbsp;The limiting pressure in the clutch may s=
upport this thought. &nbsp;Without more information it is hard to comment.</=
div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>=
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr">Guy R Day</div=
><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><di=
v id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><di=
v id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460963804896_11697" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div> <div c=
lass=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"di=
splay: block;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, He=
lvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style=3D"=
font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,=
 Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Ar=
ial"> On Monday, 18 April 2016, 2:13, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></font></div>  <br><br> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv459477=
0969"><div><div>Hi Bob,</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Everyone els=
e must be out driving their cars. &nbsp;Or out in the garage working on them=
. &nbsp;:-)</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>I would not bother tryin=
g to rebuild the master cylinders. &nbsp;Replace them with new components. &=
nbsp;Much less hassle and a better chance of success. &nbsp;You've already r=
eplaced the Bugeye stuff with later components so you don't have to worry ab=
out originality.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>That said, I would a=
lso use regular brake fluid. &nbsp;I've never cared for the silicone stuff. &=
nbsp;And I've heard that some of the currently available new master cylinder=
s come with a proviso in their warranty stating that the warranty is void if=
 silicone fluid is used.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Rick<br cle=
ar=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard</div><div class=3D"yiv4=
594770969yqt3604376065" id=3D"yiv4594770969yqt85583"><div><br clear=3D"none"=
>On Apr 17, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Bob Kitterer via Spridgets &lt;<a rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><div class=3D"yiv4594770969yqt3=
604376065" id=3D"yiv4594770969yqt76619"><div>OK, I am at my wits end tiring t=
o get the hydraulics to work. &nbsp;So who / where should I go to get the ma=
ster cylinders rebuilt which may mean reboring. &nbsp;I have separate master=
s for the brakes and the clutch, early Sprite MK IV. &nbsp;Also am using sil=
icon brake fluid.</div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature">Recently honed a=
nd put new seals in both masters, brake and slave cylinders and disk caliper=
s. &nbsp;Am getting no fluid movement in the brakes. &nbsp;Have fluid in the=
 clutch slave but not enough pressure to move the slave cylinder. &nbsp;The c=
lutch slave has Gerard's remote bleed valve an fluid moves through this valv=
e with no air.</div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><br clear=3D=
"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><br clear=3D"none">=
</div><div id=3D"yiv4594770969AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"">Bob &nbsp=
;Kitterer</span><div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;"><br clear=3D"none"></sp=
an></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;">1960 Austin Healey Sprite&nbsp=
;(Mk IV in disguise)</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;">1966 A=
ustin Healey Sprite Mk&nbsp;III (Trevor) - still in boxes</span></div><div><=
span style=3D"font-size:13pt;">2013 Miata</span></div><div><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13pt;"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size=
:13pt;">Pay it Forward</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:13pt;">Than=
ks Frank</span><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>------------------------</span><br clear=3D"=
none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rec=
t" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br clear=3D=
"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>Donate: <a rel=3D"nofollow" sha=
pe=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>Suggested annu=
al donation: $12.75</span><br clear=3D"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"=
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<br><div class=3D"yqt3604376065" id=3D"yqt06360">------------------------<br=
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[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spridgets@auto=
x.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect=
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