Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6

From: Mark Haynes via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 07:39:26 -0700

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This article is right on point, My brother in-law has traveled to China for
business (very astute Engineer BTW) and stated that the Chinese will make
anything that you want to whatever price/quality point YOU define. They CAN
make very good tools, but its up to the outsourcing company to tell them
what level of quality they want.
Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost to produce
rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).
JMHO,

Mark Haynes
It only goes one way- Pay It Forward

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:00 PM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Insightful article on Chinese tools (Trevor Jessie)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500
> From: Trevor Jessie <[email-masked]>
> To: Spridgets <[email-masked]>
> Subject: [Spridgets] Insightful article on Chinese tools
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>This article is right on point, My brother in-la=
w has traveled to China for business (very astute Engineer BTW) and stated =
that the Chinese will make anything that you want to whatever price/quality=
 point YOU define. They CAN make very good tools, but its up to the outsour=
cing company to tell them what level of quality they want.<br></div>Unfortu=
nately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost to produce rather =
than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).<br></div>JMHO,<br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_sign=
ature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes one way- Pay=
 It Forward<br></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:00 PM,  <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">Send Spridgets mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
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ilman/listinfo/spridgets</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body &#39;help&#39; to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
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<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
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<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of Spridgets digest...&quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Insightful article on Chinese tools (Trevor Jessie)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500<br>
From: Trevor Jessie &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">trevor.j=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [Spridgets] Insightful article on Chinese tools<br>
Message-ID:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CAHkEVvTAkj-M7wsFcKk_u9P0=
[email-masked]">CAHkEVvTAkj-M7wsFcKk_u9P0F06UwVB=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-i=
n-usa/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18=
/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
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End of Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6<br>
****************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: John Innis via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:43:50 -0600

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That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this.  My company has also
done business with sub-contractors in China, and I spent some time there
getting the subs up to speed on the work they were doing for us.  They work
we got form them was of acceptable quality, but definitely the minimum
possible quality that we could accept.  The subs that we worked with did
not care if we rejected some product, it was cheaper for them to have
rework than to do the work to a higher standard.  So we basically had to
inspect everything we got from them.  The reject rate was definitely much
higher than any of the other subcontractors we worked with.

Then there is the IP issue.  Just about every design that the China-based
sub worked on for us ended up getting ripped off and marketed by a
different Chinese company shortly after out contract ended.  Both companies
were owned by the government of China, so it seems likely they deliberately
transferred our technology to one of our competitors.  Fortunately they did
NOT try to sell our design in the US.  I am pretty sure we could have
stopped them, but it would have been expensive.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Haynes via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> This article is right on point, My brother in-law has traveled to China
> for business (very astute Engineer BTW) and stated that the Chinese will
> make anything that you want to whatever price/quality point YOU define.
> They CAN make very good tools, but its up to the outsourcing company to
> tell them what level of quality they want.
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this=
.=C2=A0 My company has also done business with sub-contractors in China, an=
d I spent some time there getting the subs up to speed on the work they wer=
e doing for us.=C2=A0 They work we got form them was of acceptable quality,=
 but definitely the minimum possible quality that we could accept.=C2=A0 Th=
e subs that we worked with did not care if we rejected some product, it was=
 cheaper for them to have rework than to do the work to a higher standard.=
=C2=A0 So we basically had to inspect everything we got from them.=C2=A0 Th=
e reject rate was definitely much higher than any of the other subcontracto=
rs we worked with.=C2=A0 <br><br></div>Then there is the IP issue.=C2=A0 Ju=
st about every design that the China-based sub worked on for us ended up ge=
tting ripped off and marketed by a different Chinese company shortly after =
out contract ended.=C2=A0 Both companies were owned by the government of Ch=
ina, so it seems likely they deliberately transferred our technology to one=
 of our competitors.=C2=A0 Fortunately they did NOT try to sell our design =
in the US.=C2=A0 I am pretty sure we could have stopped them, but it would =
have been expensive.=C2=A0 <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Haynes via Spridg=
ets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>This article is right on poin=
t, My brother in-law has traveled to China for business (very astute Engine=
er BTW) and stated that the Chinese will make anything that you want to wha=
tever price/quality point YOU define. They CAN make very good tools, but it=
s up to the outsourcing company to tell them what level of quality they wan=
t.<br></div>Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost=
 to produce rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).<br><=
/div>JMHO,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes one way- Pay It For=
ward<br></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:00 PM,  <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">Send Spridgets mailing list submissions to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body &#39;help&#39; to<br>
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You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
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<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of Spridgets digest...&quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Insightful article on Chinese tools (Trevor Jessie)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500<br>
From: Trevor Jessie &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [Spridgets] Insightful article on Chinese tools<br>
Message-ID:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CAHkEVvTAkj-M7wsFcKk_u9P0=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">CAHkEVvTAkj-M7=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-i=
n-usa/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18=
/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
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End of Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6<br>
****************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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ets/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with style =
when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=
=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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[email-masked]

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From: "ryan.kubanoff--- via Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:22:27 +0000 (UTC)

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No you couldn't have. For example read the history of legal battles between Lionel trains and Mikes train house. contractor for MTH approached Lionel about new designs for cheep. Lionel bit and produced these new designs thinking they were from an inhouse designer. Instead they were MTH stolen plans. Almost bankrupted Lionel. They couldn't do anything legal against the designer since they were both using same manufacturing contractor. 
Ryan 

----- Original Message -----

From: "John Innis via Spridgets" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Mark Haynes" <[email-masked]> 
Cc: "spridgets" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:43:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6 

That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this. My company has also done business with sub-contractors in China, and I spent some time there getting the subs up to speed on the work they were doing for us. They work we got form them was of acceptable quality, but definitely the minimum possible quality that we could accept. The subs that we worked with did not care if we rejected some product, it was cheaper for them to have rework than to do the work to a higher standard. So we basically had to inspect everything we got from them. The reject rate was definitely much higher than any of the other subcontractors we worked with. 

Then there is the IP issue. Just about every design that the China-based sub worked on for us ended up getting ripped off and marketed by a different Chinese company shortly after out contract ended. Both companies were owned by the government of China, so it seems likely they deliberately transferred our technology to one of our competitors. Fortunately they did NOT try to sell our design in the US. I am pretty sure we could have stopped them, but it would have been expensive. 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Haynes via Spridgets < [email-masked] > wrote: 

This article is right on point, My brother in-law has traveled to China for business (very astute Engineer BTW) and stated that the Chinese will make anything that you want to whatever price/quality point YOU define. They CAN make very good tools, but its up to the outsourcing company to tell them what level of quality they want. 
Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost to produce rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?). 
JMHO, 

Mark Haynes 

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:00 PM, < [email-masked] > wrote: 

<blockquote>

Today's Topics: 

Message: 1 
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500 
From: Trevor Jessie < [email-masked] > 
To: Spridgets < [email-masked] > 
Subject: [Spridgets] Insightful article on Chinese tools 
< [email-masked] > 

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Subject: Digest Footer 

Spridgets mailing list 
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[email-masked] 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">No you couldn't have. &nbsp;For exampl=
e read the history of legal battles between Lionel trains and Mikes train h=
ouse. &nbsp;contractor for MTH approached Lionel about new designs for chee=
p. Lionel bit and produced these new designs thinking they were from an inh=
ouse designer. &nbsp;Instead they were MTH stolen plans. &nbsp;Almost bankr=
upted Lionel. They couldn't do anything legal against the designer since th=
ey were both using same manufacturing contractor.</div><div aria-label=3D"C=
ompose body">Ryan</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:=
#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:=
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #000; =
font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family=
: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From: </b>"John Innis vi=
a Spridgets" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Mark Haynes" &=
lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"spridgets" &lt;[email-masked]=
eam.net&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:43:50 PM<br><b>Su=
bject: </b>Re: [Spridgets] Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6<br><div><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to =
this.&nbsp; My company has also done business with sub-contractors in China=
, and I spent some time there getting the subs up to speed on the work they=
 were doing for us.&nbsp; They work we got form them was of acceptable qual=
ity, but definitely the minimum possible quality that we could accept.&nbsp=
; The subs that we worked with did not care if we rejected some product, it=
 was cheaper for them to have rework than to do the work to a higher standa=
rd.&nbsp; So we basically had to inspect everything we got from them.&nbsp;=
 The reject rate was definitely much higher than any of the other subcontra=
ctors we worked with.&nbsp; <br><div><br></div></div>Then there is the IP i=
ssue.&nbsp; Just about every design that the China-based sub worked on for =
us ended up getting ripped off and marketed by a different Chinese company =
shortly after out contract ended.&nbsp; Both companies were owned by the go=
vernment of China, so it seems likely they deliberately transferred our tec=
hnology to one of our competitors.&nbsp; Fortunately they did NOT try to se=
ll our design in the US.&nbsp; I am pretty sure we could have stopped them,=
 but it would have been expensive.&nbsp; <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Hay=
nes via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex" data-mce-style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; =
padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>This article is right on poi=
nt, My brother in-law has traveled to China for business (very astute Engin=
eer BTW) and stated that the Chinese will make anything that you want to wh=
atever price/quality point YOU define. They CAN make very good tools, but i=
ts up to the outsourcing company to tell them what level of quality they wa=
nt.<br></div>Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cos=
t to produce rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).<br>=
</div>JMHO,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes one way- Pay It Fo=
rward<br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 19, 2=
016 at 12:00 PM, <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets-request@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:spridgets-request=
@autox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
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rticle on Chinese tools (Trevor Jessie)<br> <br> <br> ---------------------=
-------------------------------------------------<br> <br> Message: 1<br> D=
ate: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500<br> From: Trevor Jessie &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br> To: Spridgets =
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--===============5730054244833622928==
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------------------------

[email-masked]

--===============5730054244833622928==--

---

From: Mark Haynes via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:25:40 -0700

--===============4321025103004926042==

--001a114082b695e1a10529c8f376

Point well taken- Especially the IP factor. Mea Culpa

Mark Haynes

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, John Innis <[email-masked]> wrote:

> That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this.  My company has
> also done business with sub-contractors in China, and I spent some time
> there getting the subs up to speed on the work they were doing for us.
> They work we got form them was of acceptable quality, but definitely the
> minimum possible quality that we could accept.  The subs that we worked
> with did not care if we rejected some product, it was cheaper for them to
> have rework than to do the work to a higher standard.  So we basically had
> to inspect everything we got from them.  The reject rate was definitely
> much higher than any of the other subcontractors we worked with.
>
>> Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost to
>> produce rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).
>> JMHO,
>>
>> Mark Haynes

--001a114082b695e1a10529c8f376
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Point well taken- Especially the IP factor. Mea Culpa<br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_=
signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes one way-=
 Pay It Forward<br></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, John Innis=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to th=
is.=C2=A0 My company has also done business with sub-contractors in China, =
and I spent some time there getting the subs up to speed on the work they w=
ere doing for us.=C2=A0 They work we got form them was of acceptable qualit=
y, but definitely the minimum possible quality that we could accept.=C2=A0 =
The subs that we worked with did not care if we rejected some product, it w=
as cheaper for them to have rework than to do the work to a higher standard=
.=C2=A0 So we basically had to inspect everything we got from them.=C2=A0 T=
he reject rate was definitely much higher than any of the other subcontract=
ors we worked with.=C2=A0 <br><br></div>Then there is the IP issue.=C2=A0 J=
ust about every design that the China-based sub worked on for us ended up g=
etting ripped off and marketed by a different Chinese company shortly after=
 out contract ended.=C2=A0 Both companies were owned by the government of C=
hina, so it seems likely they deliberately transferred our technology to on=
e of our competitors.=C2=A0 Fortunately they did NOT try to sell our design=
 in the US.=C2=A0 I am pretty sure we could have stopped them, but it would=
 have been expensive.=C2=A0 <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM=
, Mark Haynes via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridge=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h=
5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>This article is right on point, My brother in=
-law has traveled to China for business (very astute Engineer BTW) and stat=
ed that the Chinese will make anything that you want to whatever price/qual=
ity point YOU define. They CAN make very good tools, but its up to the outs=
ourcing company to tell them what level of quality they want.<br></div>Unfo=
rtunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost to produce rath=
er than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).<br></div>JMHO,<br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes one way- Pay It Forward<br></div></=
div></div>
tachment-0001.html</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
Spridgets mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Spridgets@aut=
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rer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spridgets</a>=
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6<br>
****************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
<br></div></div>------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
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Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
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ets/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br><=
br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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nd people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with substa=
nce --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a114082b695e1a10529c8f376--

--===============4321025103004926042==
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------------------------

[email-masked]

--===============4321025103004926042==--

---

From: John Innis via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:46:18 -0600

--===============1842011107405589898==

--94eb2c07d0fa5c00430529c93d72

But contrast that to the millions of dollars (including tax dollars) that
are spent to stop the sale of Chinese knock-off purses and shoes.  It can
be done, but like I said, the cost is very high.  Homeland Security (for
reasons I have yet to understand) goes after web sites and local retailers
selling counterfeit goods, US Customs and Boarder Patrol goes after those
importing such goods, seizes and destroys any they find.  The FBI goes
after violations of copyright law, including DMCA violations of pirated
software.  Some big cities like NY also have special Police squads
dedicated to stopping the sale of counterfit goods.  The products my
company makes are used in aircraft systems, so there are also plenty of
avenues to fight the use of knock-off products from that angle as well.
But none of that makes any difference if they make and sell the knock-off's
only in China.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:22 PM, ryan.kubanoff--- via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> No you couldn't have.  For example read the history of legal battles
> between Lionel trains and Mikes train house.  contractor for MTH approached
> Lionel about new designs for cheep. Lionel bit and produced these new
> designs thinking they were from an inhouse designer.  Instead they were MTH
> stolen plans.  Almost bankrupted Lionel. They couldn't do anything legal
> against the designer since they were both using same manufacturing
> contractor.
> Ryan
>
> *From: *"John Innis via Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
> *To: *"Mark Haynes" <[email-masked]>
> *Cc: *"spridgets" <[email-masked]>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:43:50 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Spridgets] Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6
>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> [email-masked]
>

--94eb2c07d0fa5c00430529c93d72
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">But contrast that to the millions of dollars (including ta=
x dollars) that are spent to stop the sale of Chinese knock-off purses and =
shoes.=C2=A0 It can be done, but like I said, the cost is very high.=C2=A0 =
Homeland Security (for reasons I have yet to understand) goes after web sit=
es and local retailers selling counterfeit goods, US Customs and Boarder Pa=
trol goes after those importing such goods, seizes and destroys any they fi=
nd.=C2=A0 The FBI goes after violations of copyright law, including DMCA vi=
olations of pirated software.=C2=A0 Some big cities like NY also have speci=
al Police squads dedicated to stopping the sale of counterfit goods.=C2=A0 =
The products my company makes are used in aircraft systems, so there are al=
so plenty of avenues to fight the use of knock-off products from that angle=
 as well.=C2=A0 But none of that makes any difference if they make and sell=
 the knock-off&#39;s only in China. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:22 PM, ryan.kubanoff=
--- via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;font-=
size:12pt;color:#000000"><div>No you couldn&#39;t have.=C2=A0 For example r=
ead the history of legal battles between Lionel trains and Mikes train hous=
e. =C2=A0contractor for MTH approached Lionel about new designs for cheep. =
Lionel bit and produced these new designs thinking they were from an inhous=
e designer.=C2=A0 Instead they were MTH stolen plans.=C2=A0 Almost bankrupt=
ed Lionel. They couldn&#39;t do anything legal against the designer since t=
hey were both using same manufacturing contractor.</div><div>Ryan</div><div=
><br></div><hr><div style=3D"color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:norma=
l;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12p=
t"><b>From: </b>&quot;John Innis via Spridgets&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;Mark Haynes&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:220caribou@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot=
;spridgets&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, January=
 20, 2016 1:43:50 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Spridgets] Spridgets Digest, V=
ol 58, Issue 6<div><div class=3D"h5"><br><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv>That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this.=C2=A0 My company =
has also done business with sub-contractors in China, and I spent some time=
 there getting the subs up to speed on the work they were doing for us.=C2=
=A0 They work we got form them was of acceptable quality, but definitely th=
e minimum possible quality that we could accept.=C2=A0 The subs that we wor=
ked with did not care if we rejected some product, it was cheaper for them =
to have rework than to do the work to a higher standard.=C2=A0 So we basica=
lly had to inspect everything we got from them.=C2=A0 The reject rate was d=
efinitely much higher than any of the other subcontractors we worked with.=
=C2=A0 <br><div><br></div></div>Then there is the IP issue.=C2=A0 Just abou=
t every design that the China-based sub worked on for us ended up getting r=
ipped off and marketed by a different Chinese company shortly after out con=
tract ended.=C2=A0 Both companies were owned by the government of China, so=
 it seems likely they deliberately transferred our technology to one of our=
 competitors.=C2=A0 Fortunately they did NOT try to sell our design in the =
US.=C2=A0 I am pretty sure we could have stopped them, but it would have be=
en expensive.=C2=A0 <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Haynes via Spridgets <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>This article is right on point, My=
 brother in-law has traveled to China for business (very astute Engineer BT=
W) and stated that the Chinese will make anything that you want to whatever=
 price/quality point YOU define. They CAN make very good tools, but its up =
to the outsourcing company to tell them what level of quality they want.<br=
></div>Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost to p=
roduce rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).<br></div>=
JMHO,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes one way- Pay It Forward<=
br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at=
 12:00 PM, <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets-request@autox.=
team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Spridgets mailing list submi=
ssions to<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox=
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ribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
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ets</a><br> or, via email, send a message with subject or body &#39;help&#3=
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 Subject line so it is more specific<br> than &quot;Re: Contents of Spridge=
ts digest...&quot;<br> <br> <br> Today&#39;s Topics:<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
1. Insightful article on Chinese tools (Trevor Jessie)<br> <br> <br> ------=
----------------------------------------------------------------<br> <br> M=
essage: 1<br> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500<br> From: Trevor Jessie=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">trevor.je=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br> To: Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br> Subjec=
t: [Spridgets] Insightful article on Chinese tools<br> Message-ID:<br> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CAHkEVvTAkj-M7wsFcKk_u9P0F06=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">CAHkEVvTAkj-M7wsF=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br> Content-Type:=
 text/plain; charset=3D&quot;utf-8&quot;<br> <br> <a href=3D"http://hackada=
y.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/" rel=3D"noreferrer=
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or-made-in-usa/</a><br> -------------- next part --------------<br> An HTML=
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**********<br></blockquote></div><br></div><br>------------------------<br>=
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><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Neve=
r offend people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with =
substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div></div>=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: "bmwwxman . via Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:29:01 -0600

--===============7257483176139595692==

--001a11402054b3e9f60529caac9f

I am reasonably happy with my Chinese copy of Rolex watch.  The only
irritating feature on it is when the face pops open and the little bird
pops out to chirp the hour.....     ;-)

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:46 PM, John Innis via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
Cheers!!
Jim Johnson
High Plains Youth Hockey <http://www.highplainsyouthhockey.org>
Dodge City Trail of Fame <http://www.DodgeCityTrailofFame.org>
Electronic Journal of Severe Storms Meteorology <http://www.EJSSM.org>

*"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they
look forward to the trip."*

*Winston Churchill*

--001a11402054b3e9f60529caac9f
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I am reasonably happy with my Chinese copy of Rolex watch.=
=C2=A0 The only irritating feature on it is when the face pops open and the=
 little bird pops out to chirp the hour..... =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ;-)<div><br></di=
v></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, J=
an 20, 2016 at 1:46 PM, John Innis via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr">But contrast that to the millions of dollars (including tax dollars) =
that are spent to stop the sale of Chinese knock-off purses and shoes.=C2=
=A0 It can be done, but like I said, the cost is very high.=C2=A0 Homeland =
Security (for reasons I have yet to understand) goes after web sites and lo=
cal retailers selling counterfeit goods, US Customs and Boarder Patrol goes=
 after those importing such goods, seizes and destroys any they find.=C2=A0=
 The FBI goes after violations of copyright law, including DMCA violations =
of pirated software.=C2=A0 Some big cities like NY also have special Police=
 squads dedicated to stopping the sale of counterfit goods.=C2=A0 The produ=
cts my company makes are used in aircraft systems, so there are also plenty=
 of avenues to fight the use of knock-off products from that angle as well.=
=C2=A0 But none of that makes any difference if they make and sell the knoc=
k-off&#39;s only in China. <br></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5=
"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20,=
 2016 at 1:22 PM, ryan.kubanoff--- via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;color:#000000"><div>No you couldn&=
#39;t have.=C2=A0 For example read the history of legal battles between Lio=
nel trains and Mikes train house. =C2=A0contractor for MTH approached Lione=
l about new designs for cheep. Lionel bit and produced these new designs th=
inking they were from an inhouse designer.=C2=A0 Instead they were MTH stol=
en plans.=C2=A0 Almost bankrupted Lionel. They couldn&#39;t do anything leg=
al against the designer since they were both using same manufacturing contr=
actor.</div><div>Ryan</div><div><br></div><hr><div style=3D"color:#000;font=
-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica=
,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><b>From: </b>&quot;John Innis via Spridge=
ts&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>&quot;Mark Haynes&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">220caribou@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;spridgets&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sprid=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>=
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:43:50 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Spridgets] Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6<div><div><br><div><br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div>That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this.=
=C2=A0 My company has also done business with sub-contractors in China, and=
 I spent some time there getting the subs up to speed on the work they were=
 doing for us.=C2=A0 They work we got form them was of acceptable quality, =
but definitely the minimum possible quality that we could accept.=C2=A0 The=
 subs that we worked with did not care if we rejected some product, it was =
cheaper for them to have rework than to do the work to a higher standard.=
=C2=A0 So we basically had to inspect everything we got from them.=C2=A0 Th=
e reject rate was definitely much higher than any of the other subcontracto=
rs we worked with.=C2=A0 <br><div><br></div></div>Then there is the IP issu=
e.=C2=A0 Just about every design that the China-based sub worked on for us =
ended up getting ripped off and marketed by a different Chinese company sho=
rtly after out contract ended.=C2=A0 Both companies were owned by the gover=
nment of China, so it seems likely they deliberately transferred our techno=
logy to one of our competitors.=C2=A0 Fortunately they did NOT try to sell =
our design in the US.=C2=A0 I am pretty sure we could have stopped them, bu=
t it would have been expensive.=C2=A0 <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Haynes=
 via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>This article is ri=
ght on point, My brother in-law has traveled to China for business (very as=
tute Engineer BTW) and stated that the Chinese will make anything that you =
want to whatever price/quality point YOU define. They CAN make very good to=
ols, but its up to the outsourcing company to tell them what level of quali=
ty they want.<br></div>Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerne=
d with cost to produce rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening=
 HF?).<br></div>JMHO,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"=
><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes one way-=
 Pay It Forward<br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue,=
 Jan 19, 2016 at 12:00 PM, <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridget=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Spridgets ma=
iling list submissions to<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><b=
r> <br> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/=
spridgets" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailm=
an/listinfo/spridgets</a><br> or, via email, send a message with subject or=
 body &#39;help&#39; to<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:s=
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team.net</a><br> <br> You can reach the person managing the list at<br> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br> <br> When replying=
, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br> than &quot;Re: C=
ontents of Spridgets digest...&quot;<br> <br> <br> Today&#39;s Topics:<br> =
<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A01. Insightful article on Chinese tools (Trevor Jessie)<br=
> <br> <br> ---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br> <br> Message: 1<br> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500<br> F=
rom: Trevor Jessie &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br> To: Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;<br> Subject: [Spridgets] Insightful article on Chinese tools<br> Me=
ssage-ID:<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CAHkEVvTAkj=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<=
br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;utf-8&quot;<br> <br> <a href=
=3D"http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/"=
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in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/</a><br> -------------- next part --------=
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;<br> <br> ------------------------------<br> <br> Subject: Digest Footer<b=
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mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailm=
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-------<br> <br> End of Spridgets Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6<br> *************=
***************************<br></blockquote></div><br></div><br>-----------=
-------------<br> <br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
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></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br=
>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D</div></div><br>------------------------<br><div><br></div><a href=
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a><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br>------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D=
<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>
</div>
</div></div><br>------------------------<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br=
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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ets/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Cheers!!<br>Jim Johnson<br><a href=
=3D"http://www.highplainsyouthhockey.org" target=3D"_blank">High Plains You=
th Hockey</a><br><a href=3D"http://www.DodgeCityTrailofFame.org" target=3D"=
_blank">Dodge City Trail of Fame </a><br><a href=3D"http://www.EJSSM.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">Electronic Journal of Severe Storms Meteorology</a><br><br=
><font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"arial"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"=
black" face=3D"arial"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><fo=
nt style=3D"background-color:transparent" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><div><u>&quot;=
<font size=3D"3"><b>Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to=20
  hell in such a way that they look forward to the=20
  trip.&quot;</b></font></u></div>

 =20

<div><font size=3D"3"><b></b></font>=C2=A0</div>

 =20

<div><font size=3D"3" color=3D"#008000"><b>Winston=20
Churchill</b></font></div></font></font></font></font></font><br><div style=
=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div><div style=3D=
"display:inline"></div></div></div>
</div>

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[email-masked]

--===============7257483176139595692==--

---

From: Ron Soave via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:51:15 -0600

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	charset=us-ascii
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Listen, kids - understanding "why" is very much the point of the article. Th=
ings are better when there is a purpose, a vision. When we did the Busterclu=
ster, the "why" was never "To restore this Sprite."  It was "Pam and Buster w=
ill recreate their first date on Sunday in this car." Microsoft brought its Z=
une MP3 player to market before the iPod and spouted specs, memory, size and=
 sound quality in all its advertising. No one really paid attention because t=
hey did not explain "why."  Apple came out with the iPad and simply stated "=
4,000 songs on your pocket." Everyone got it.=20

China? Not under my watch. www.kaneyaerospace.com.Made in the USA by people o=
n this list.=20

Ron Soave

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Mark Haynes via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:
>> That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this.  My company has al=
so done business with sub-contractors in China, and I spent some time there g=
etting the subs up to speed on the work they were doing for us.  They work w=
e got form them was of acceptable quality, but definitely the minimum possib=
le quality that we could accept.  The subs that we worked with did not care i=
f we rejected some product, it was cheaper for them to have rework than to d=
o the work to a higher standard.  So we basically had to inspect everything w=
e got from them.  The reject rate was definitely much higher than any of the=
 other subcontractors we worked with. =20
>>=20
>> Then there is the IP issue.  Just about every design that the China-based=
 sub worked on for us ended up getting ripped off and marketed by a differen=
t Chinese company shortly after out contract ended.  Both companies were own=
ed by the government of China, so it seems likely they deliberately transfer=
red our technology to one of our competitors.  Fortunately they did NOT try t=
o sell our design in the US.  I am pretty sure we could have stopped them, b=
ut it would have been expensive. =20
>>=20
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Haynes via Spridgets <spridgets@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
>>> This article is right on point, My brother in-law has traveled to China f=
or business (very astute Engineer BTW) and stated that the Chinese will make=
 anything that you want to whatever price/quality point YOU define. They CAN=
 make very good tools, but its up to the outsourcing company to tell them wh=
at level of quality they want.
>>> Unfortunately most of the US firms are more concerned with cost to produ=
ce rather than longevity and quality (Are you listening HF?).
>>>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:00 PM, <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:
>>>>         <[email-masked]=
.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"
>>>>=20
>>>> URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/spridgets/attachments/20160118/45=
e1f29d/attachment-0001.html>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/jdin=
[email-masked]
>> --=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> =3D Never offend people with style when you   =3D
>> =3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/soaver=
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Listen, kids - understanding "why" is v=
ery much the point of the article. Things are better when there is a purpose=
, a vision. When we did the Bustercluster, the "why" was never "To restore t=
his Sprite." &nbsp;It was "Pam and Buster will recreate their first date on S=
unday in this car." Microsoft brought its Zune MP3 player to market before t=
he iPod and spouted specs, memory, size and sound quality in all its adverti=
sing. No one really paid attention because they did not explain "why." &nbsp=
;Apple came out with the iPad and simply stated "4,000 songs on your pocket.=
" Everyone got it.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div i=
d=3D"AppleMailSignature">China? Not under my watch. <a href=3D"http://www.ka=
neyaerospace.com.made">www.kaneyaerospace.com.Made</a> in the USA by people o=
n this list.&nbsp;<br><br>Ron Soave</div><div><br>On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:25 P=
M, Mark Haynes via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Point well taken- Especially the IP factor. Mea Cu=
lpa<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D=
"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes on=
e way- Pay It Forward<br></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, John Innis <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div>That is all true, BUT, there is another layer to this.&nb=
sp; My company has also done business with sub-contractors in China, and I s=
pent some time there getting the subs up to speed on the work they were doin=
g for us.&nbsp; They work we got form them was of acceptable quality, but de=
finitely the minimum possible quality that we could accept.&nbsp; The subs t=
hat we worked with did not care if we rejected some product, it was cheaper f=
or them to have rework than to do the work to a higher standard.&nbsp; So we=
 basically had to inspect everything we got from them.&nbsp; The reject rate=
 was definitely much higher than any of the other subcontractors we worked w=
ith.&nbsp; <br><br></div>Then there is the IP issue.&nbsp; Just about every d=
esign that the China-based sub worked on for us ended up getting ripped off a=
nd marketed by a different Chinese company shortly after out contract ended.=
&nbsp; Both companies were owned by the government of China, so it seems lik=
ely they deliberately transferred our technology to one of our competitors.&=
nbsp; Fortunately they did NOT try to sell our design in the US.&nbsp; I am p=
retty sure we could have stopped them, but it would have been expensive.&nbs=
p; <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=
<div class=3D"h5">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mark Haynes via Spridgets=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></div></div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>T=
his article is right on point, My brother in-law has traveled to China for b=
usiness (very astute Engineer BTW) and stated that the Chinese will make any=
thing that you want to whatever price/quality point YOU define. They CAN mak=
e very good tools, but its up to the outsourcing company to tell them what l=
evel of quality they want.<br></div>Unfortunately most of the US firms are m=
ore concerned with cost to produce rather than longevity and quality (Are yo=
u listening HF?).<br></div>JMHO,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br cle=
ar=3D"all"><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Mark Haynes<br></div>It only goes=
 one way- Pay It Forward<br></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:00 PM,  <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">Send Spridgets mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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&nbsp; &nbsp;1. Insightful article on Chinese tools (Trevor Jessie)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:28:06 -0500<br>
From: Trevor Jessie &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [Spridgets] Insightful article on Chinese tools<br>
Message-ID:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CAHkEVvTAkj-M7wsFcKk_u9P0F0=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">CAHkEVvTAkj-M7wsFc=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in=
-usa/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/w=
hats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/</a><br>
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eople with style when you&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance -=
-- Sam Brown&nbsp; =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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