Subject: Re: [Spridgets] rocker clearance

From: Hal Faulkner via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 11:46:04 -0800

--===============1797622076111580518==

--001a114f0f7245251a05237fe9dd

Although it feels strange, I will beg to differ with Ron:  Clearance
is *measured
at the valve*, but you are really setting the clearance *at the cam and
follower*. Because it is not feasible to measure at the cam/follower, if
the rocker ratio is higher you must allow for this and set greater
clearance at the valve to compensate.  Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or
something like that.  To correct for 1.5 rockers you should actually
multiply the standard clearance by 1.5/1.25 which is 1.2.  1.2 times12
gives us a corrected clearance of 14.4thou.  That said, this is not a
terribly critical setting and depending on the engine build could be a few
thou more.
Hal

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> It doesn't.
>
> Ron Soave
>
> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Why does increasing the rocker ratio cause a need for more clearance?
>
> Sent from my keyboard
>
> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> I used Minisport roller rockers bought cheap in the 2008-9 crash.  I no
> longer remember, but they probably are 1.5 (red), and I also used a "warm"
> Elgin cam that came in a box of parts.
>
> Where higher ratio rockers
> <http://www.spridgetmania.com/part/C-AHT436/Roller-Tipped-15-Ratio-Rockers-Aluminum> are
> to be used, the required valve clearance can then be assessed using this
> simple formula. For instance when using 1.5 rockers, you obviously need to
> multiply the cam/follower clearance by 1.5. So 0.010-in x 1.5 gives
> 0.015-in for standard/mild cams and 0.012-in x 1.5 gives 0.018-in for
> race/more-modified cams. Interestingly, most re-profiled performance cams
> generally have a suggested valve clearance of 0.016-in with standard ratio
> rockers. To assess required valve clearance where higher ratio rockers are
> used simply work it backwards and multiply by the higher ratio. This works
> out as 0.016-in divided by 1.25 = 0.0128, then x 1.5 = 0.0192" - or 0.019"
> at the valve.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
> *To:* Rick Fisk <[email-masked]> ; Michael Rowe
> <[email-masked]>
> *Cc:* Spridgets <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:49 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Spridgets] rocker clearance
>
> How about when you have 1.5 rocker arms?  Drove the Bugeye around
> yesterday.  Runs great, still blue smoke on acceleration on a recent
> rebuild.  At leat 1000 miles since rebuild.  I'm afraid the rings never
> seated properly.  Not sure of the cylinder wall surface during the rebuild
> as I did not so that part of it.
> Mike MacLean
>
>
>
> On Saturday, October 31, 2015 1:26 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>
> The 0.029 in. spec is a whole different thing used when you are assembling
> the engine.  If your engine is together and you just want to set the valve
> clearance it should be 0.012 in. set cold.
>
> Sent from my keyboard
>
> On Oct 31, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> New 1275 engine.
> Haynes says "Rocker clearance, timing only = 0.029 in.
> My mechanic/tutor says, "that is twice what it should be."
> Bentley says:
> Rocker clearance: Running (Standard) = 0.012 in. cold
>                                 Running (competition work) = 0.015 in.
>                                 timing        = 0.029 in.
> Online sites agree on  = .012 in. cold.
>
> So what is the 0.029 in. for?
>
> Michael Rowe
>
> ------------------------
>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Although it feels strange, I will beg to differ with =
Ron:=C2=A0 Clearance is <b>measured at the valve</b>, but you are really se=
tting the clearance <b>at the cam and follower</b>. Because it is not feasi=
ble to measure at the cam/follower, if the rocker ratio is higher you must =
allow for this and set greater clearance at the valve to compensate.=C2=A0 =
Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or something like that.=C2=A0 To correct for =
1.5 rockers you should actually multiply the standard clearance by 1.5/1.25=
 which is 1.2.=C2=A0 1.2 times12 gives us a corrected clearance of 14.4thou=
.=C2=A0 That said, this is not a terribly critical setting and depending on=
 the engine build could be a few thou more. =C2=A0 <br></div>Hal<br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 31, 20=
15 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><di=
v>It doesn&#39;t.=C2=A0<br><br>Ron Soave</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><=
br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>Why does incre=
asing the rocker ratio cause a need for more clearance?<br><br>Sent from my=
 keyboard</div><div><br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Rowe via Sprid=
gets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spri=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div>

<div><font face=3D"Arial">I=C2=A0used Minisport roller rockers bought cheap=
 in the=20
2008-9 crash.=C2=A0 I no longer remember, but they probably are 1.5=20
(red),=C2=A0and I also=C2=A0used a &quot;warm&quot; Elgin cam that came in =
a box of=20
parts.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><span>Where=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.spridgetmania.com/part/C-AHT436=
/Roller-Tipped-15-Ratio-Rockers-Aluminum" target=3D"_blank">higher=20
ratio rockers</a>=C2=A0are to be used, the required valve clearance can the=
n be=20
assessed using this simple formula. For instance when using 1.5 rockers, yo=
u=20
obviously need to multiply the cam/follower clearance by 1.5. So 0.010-in x=
 1.5=20
gives 0.015-in for standard/mild cams and 0.012-in x 1.5 gives 0.018-in for=
=20
race/more-modified cams. Interestingly, most re-profiled performance cams=
=20
generally have a suggested valve clearance of 0.016-in with standard ratio=
=20
rockers. To assess required valve clearance where higher ratio rockers are =
used=20
simply work it backwards and multiply by the higher ratio. This works out a=
s=20
0.016-in divided by 1.25 =3D 0.0128, then x 1.5 =3D 0.0192&quot; - or 0.019=
&quot; at the=20
valve.</span></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING=
-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir=3D"ltr">
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>=20
  <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" target=3D"_blank">Michael=20
  MacLean</a> </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]=
t" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Rick Fisk</a> ; <=
a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">Michael Rowe</a>=20
  </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]=
m.net" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Spridgets=
</a> </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:=
49=20
  PM</div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Spridgets] rocker=20
  clearance</div>
  <div><br></div>
  <div style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,=
times,serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:16px">
  <div>How about when you have 1.5 rocker=20
  arms?=C2=A0 Drove the Bugeye around yesterday.=C2=A0 Runs great, still bl=
ue=20
  smoke on acceleration on a recent rebuild.=C2=A0 At leat 1000 miles since=
=20
  rebuild.=C2=A0 I&#39;m afraid the rings never seated properly.=C2=A0 Not =
sure of=20
  the cylinder wall surface during the rebuild as I did not so that part of=
=20
  it.<br></div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr">Mike MacLean<br></div>
  <div><span></span></div><br>
  <div><br><br></div>
  <div style=3D"DISPLAY:block">
  <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:=
16px">
  <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lu=
cida Grande,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:16px">
  <div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">On Saturday, October 31,=
 2015 1:26 PM,=20
  Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=20
  wrote:<br></font></div>
  <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;MARGIN-TOP:5px;=
PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px"><br><br>
    <div>
    <div>
    <div>
    <div>The 0.029 in. spec is a whole different thing used when you are=20
    assembling the engine.=C2=A0 If your engine is together and you just wa=
nt to=20
    set the valve clearance it should be 0.012 in. set cold.<br clear=3D"no=
ne"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard</div>
    <div>
    <div><br clear=3D"none">On Oct 31, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Michael Rowe via S=
pridgets=20
    &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" shape=3D"rect" rel=3D"n=
ofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=20
    wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div></div></blockquote></div></div>
    <div>
   =20
    </div>
    <div>
    <div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">New 1275 engine.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Haynes says &quot;Rocker clearance, timing on=
ly=20
    =3D=C2=A00.029 in.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">My mechanic/tutor says, &quot;that is twice w=
hat it should=20
    be.&quot;</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Bentley says:</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Rocker clearance: Running (Standard) =3D 0.01=
2 in.=20
    cold</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=20
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Running (competition work) =3D 0.=
015=20
    in.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
    timing=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D 0.029 in.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Online sites=C2=A0agree on=C2=A0 =3D .012 in.=
=20
    cold.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>=C2=A0</div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">So what is the 0.029 in. for?</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>=C2=A0</div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Michael Rowe</font></div></div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div><span>------------------------</span><br clear=3D"none"><span></=
span><br clear=3D"none"><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" s=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

--===============1797622076111580518==--

---

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 19:04:27 -0500

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After thinking the geometry through I have to agree Hal.   Hard to do for an=
 old fart like me.  Thinking it through that is.  LOL

Rick=20

Sent from my keyboard

> On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Hal Faulkner <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Although it feels strange, I will beg to differ with Ron:  Clearance is me=
asured at the valve, but you are really setting the clearance at the cam and=
 follower. Because it is not feasible to measure at the cam/follower, if the=
 rocker ratio is higher you must allow for this and set greater clearance at=
 the valve to compensate.  Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or something like t=
hat.  To correct for 1.5 rockers you should actually multiply the standard c=
learance by 1.5/1.25 which is 1.2.  1.2 times12 gives us a corrected clearan=
ce of 14.4thou.  That said, this is not a terribly critical setting and depe=
nding on the engine build could be a few thou more.  =20
> Hal
>=20
>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <spridgets@autox=
.team.net> wrote:
>> It doesn't.=20
>>=20
>> Ron Soave
>>=20
>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:
>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <spridgets@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> I used Minisport roller rockers bought cheap in the 2008-9 crash.  I no=
 longer remember, but they probably are 1.5 (red), and I also used a "warm" E=
lgin cam that came in a box of parts.
>>>> =20
>>>> Where higher ratio rockers are to be used, the required valve clearance=
 can then be assessed using this simple formula. For instance when using 1.5=
 rockers, you obviously need to multiply the cam/follower clearance by 1.5. S=
o 0.010-in x 1.5 gives 0.015-in for standard/mild cams and 0.012-in x 1.5 gi=
ves 0.018-in for race/more-modified cams. Interestingly, most re-profiled pe=
rformance cams generally have a suggested valve clearance of 0.016-in with s=
tandard ratio rockers. To assess required valve clearance where higher ratio=
 rockers are used simply work it backwards and multiply by the higher ratio.=
 This works out as 0.016-in divided by 1.25 =3D 0.0128, then x 1.5 =3D 0.019=
2" - or 0.019" at the valve.
>>>> From: Michael MacLean
>>>> To: Rick Fisk ; Michael Rowe
>>>> Cc: Spridgets
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:49 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] rocker clearance
>>>>=20
>>>> How about when you have 1.5 rocker arms?  Drove the Bugeye around yeste=
rday.  Runs great, still blue smoke on acceleration on a recent rebuild.  At=
 leat 1000 miles since rebuild.  I'm afraid the rings never seated properly.=
  Not sure of the cylinder wall surface during the rebuild as I did not so t=
hat part of it.
>>>> Mike MacLean
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Saturday, October 31, 2015 1:26 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <spridge=
[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> The 0.029 in. spec is a whole different thing used when you are assembl=
ing the engine.  If your engine is together and you just want to set the val=
ve clearance it should be 0.012 in. set cold.
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from my keyboard
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> New 1275 engine.
>>>> Haynes says "Rocker clearance, timing only =3D 0.029 in.
>>>> Rocker clearance: Running (Standard) =3D 0.012 in. cold
>>>>                                 Running (competition work) =3D 0.015 in=
.
>>>>                                 timing        =3D 0.029 in.
>>>> Online sites agree on  =3D .012 in. cold.
>>>> =20
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/re=
[email-masked]
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/rre=
[email-masked]
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/ref=
[email-masked]
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/soav=
[email-masked]
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/frog.=
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-768527A3-8D1F-4627-8C06-5C6D48CE0FB5
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>After thinking the geometry through I h=
ave to agree Hal. &nbsp; Hard to do for an old fart like me. &nbsp;Thinking i=
t through that is. &nbsp;LOL</div><div><br></div><div>Rick&nbsp;<br><br>Sent=
 from my keyboard</div><div><br>On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Hal Faulkner &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Although it f=
eels strange, I will beg to differ with Ron:&nbsp; Clearance is <b>measured a=
t the valve</b>, but you are really setting the clearance <b>at the cam and f=
ollower</b>. Because it is not feasible to measure at the cam/follower, if t=
he rocker ratio is higher you must allow for this and set greater clearance a=
t the valve to compensate.&nbsp; Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or something l=
ike that.&nbsp; To correct for 1.5 rockers you should actually multiply the s=
tandard clearance by 1.5/1.25 which is 1.2.&nbsp; 1.2 times12 gives us a cor=
rected clearance of 14.4thou.&nbsp; That said, this is not a terribly critic=
al setting and depending on the engine build could be a few thou more. &nbsp=
; <br></div>Hal<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spri=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"auto"><div>It doesn't.&nbsp;<br><br>Ron Soave</div><div><div cla=
ss=3D"h5"><div><br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@auto=
x.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>W=
hy does increasing the rocker ratio cause a need for more clearance?<br><br>=
Sent from my keyboard</div><div><br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Row=
e via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div>

<div><font face=3D"Arial">I&nbsp;used Minisport roller rockers bought cheap i=
n the=20
2008-9 crash.&nbsp; I no longer remember, but they probably are 1.5=20
(red),&nbsp;and I also&nbsp;used a "warm" Elgin cam that came in a box of=20=

parts.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span>Where&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.spridgetmania.com/part/C-AHT436/=
Roller-Tipped-15-Ratio-Rockers-Aluminum" target=3D"_blank">higher=20
ratio rockers</a>&nbsp;are to be used, the required valve clearance can then=
 be=20
assessed using this simple formula. For instance when using 1.5 rockers, you=
=20
obviously need to multiply the cam/follower clearance by 1.5. So 0.010-in x 1=
.5=20
gives 0.015-in for standard/mild cams and 0.012-in x 1.5 gives 0.018-in for=20=

race/more-modified cams. Interestingly, most re-profiled performance cams=20=

generally have a suggested valve clearance of 0.016-in with standard ratio=20=

rockers. To assess required valve clearance where higher ratio rockers are u=
sed=20
simply work it backwards and multiply by the higher ratio. This works out as=
=20
0.016-in divided by 1.25 =3D 0.0128, then x 1.5 =3D 0.0192" - or 0.019" at t=
he=20
valve.</span></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-=
RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir=3D"ltr">
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>=20
  <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">Michael=20
  MacLean</a> </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]=
" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Rick Fisk</a> ; <a t=
itle=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">Michael Rowe</a>=20
  </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]=
.net" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Spridgets</=
a> </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:4=
9=20
  PM</div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Spridgets] rocker=20
  clearance</div>
  <div><br></div>
  <div style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,t=
imes,serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:16px">
  <div>How about when you have 1.5 rocker=20
  arms?&nbsp; Drove the Bugeye around yesterday.&nbsp; Runs great, still blu=
e=20
  smoke on acceleration on a recent rebuild.&nbsp; At leat 1000 miles since=20=

  rebuild.&nbsp; I'm afraid the rings never seated properly.&nbsp; Not sure o=
f=20
  the cylinder wall surface during the rebuild as I did not so that part of=20=

  it.<br></div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr">Mike MacLean<br></div>
  <div><span></span></div><br>
  <div><br><br></div>
  <div style=3D"DISPLAY:block">
  <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:1=
6px">
  <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Luc=
ida Grande,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:16px">
  <div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">On Saturday, October 31, 2=
015 1:26 PM,=20
  Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=20
  wrote:<br></font></div>
  <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;MARGIN-TOP:5px;P=
ADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px"><br><br>
    <div>
    <div>
    <div>
    <div>The 0.029 in. spec is a whole different thing used when you are=20
    assembling the engine.&nbsp; If your engine is together and you just wan=
t to=20
    set the valve clearance it should be 0.012 in. set cold.<br clear=3D"non=
e"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard</div>
    <div>
    <div><br clear=3D"none">On Oct 31, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Michael Rowe via Sp=
ridgets=20
    &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" shape=3D"rect" rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=20
    wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div></div></blockquote></div></div>
    <div>
   =20
    </div>
    <div>
    <div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">New 1275 engine.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Haynes says "Rocker clearance, timing only=20
    =3D&nbsp;0.029 in.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">My mechanic/tutor says, "that is twice what it=
 should=20
    be."</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Bentley says:</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Rocker clearance: Running (Standard) =3D 0.012=
 in.=20
    cold</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Running (competition work) =3D 0.0=
15=20
    in.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    timing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D 0.029 in.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Online sites&nbsp;agree on&nbsp; =3D .012 in.=20=

    cold.</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">So what is the 0.029 in. for?</font></div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
    <div><font face=3D"Arial">Michael Rowe</font></div></div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div><span>------------------------</span><br clear=3D"none"><span></s=
pan><br clear=3D"none"><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" sha=
pe=3D"rect" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><=
/span><br clear=3D"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>Donate: <a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" shape=3D"rect" rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br clear=3D"none"><s=
pan>Suggested annual donation: $12.75</span><br clear=3D"none"><span></span>=
<br clear=3D"none"><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" sh=
ape=3D"rect" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive<=
/a></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/fo=
rums" shape=3D"rect" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/=
forums</a></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"htt=
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ns/spridgets/[email-masked]</a></span><br clear=3D"none"></div></block=
quote></div></div><br>
    <div>------------------------<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">spri=
[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Suggested annual donation: $=
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subscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets=
/[email-masked]" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team=
.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"=
></div><br><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>--------------------=
----</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span>=
<br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_bla=
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i.net</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div><div><div class=3D"h5"><span>----------------------=
--</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><b=
r><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donat=
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ahoo.com</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div><br>------------------------=
<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>=

<br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
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ts/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.tea=
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

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------------------------

[email-masked]

--===============0587445942487298373==--

---

From: Ron Soave via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 19:35:14 -0600

--===============3679191443388071623==
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Agreed.=20

Ron Soave

> On Nov 1, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Rick Fisk <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> After thinking the geometry through I have to agree Hal.   Hard to do for a=
n old fart like me.  Thinking it through that is.  LOL
>> Although it feels strange, I will beg to differ with Ron:  Clearance is m=
easured at the valve, but you are really setting the clearance at the cam an=
d follower. Because it is not feasible to measure at the cam/follower, if th=
e rocker ratio is higher you must allow for this and set greater clearance a=
t the valve to compensate.  Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or something like t=
hat.  To correct for 1.5 rockers you should actually multiply the standard c=
learance by 1.5/1.25 which is 1.2.  1.2 times12 gives us a corrected clearan=
ce of 14.4thou.  That said, this is not a terribly critical setting and depe=
nding on the engine build could be a few thou more.  =20
>> Hal
>>=20
>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <spridgets@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:
>>> It doesn't.=20
>>>=20
>>> Ron Soave
>>>=20
>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
eam.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I used Minisport roller rockers bought cheap in the 2008-9 crash.  I n=
o longer remember, but they probably are 1.5 (red), and I also used a "warm"=
 Elgin cam that came in a box of parts.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Where higher ratio rockers are to be used, the required valve clearanc=
e can then be assessed using this simple formula. For instance when using 1.=
5 rockers, you obviously need to multiply the cam/follower clearance by 1.5.=
 So 0.010-in x 1.5 gives 0.015-in for standard/mild cams and 0.012-in x 1.5 g=
ives 0.018-in for race/more-modified cams. Interestingly, most re-profiled p=
erformance cams generally have a suggested valve clearance of 0.016-in with s=
tandard ratio rockers. To assess required valve clearance where higher ratio=
 rockers are used simply work it backwards and multiply by the higher ratio.=
 This works out as 0.016-in divided by 1.25 =3D 0.0128, then x 1.5 =3D 0.019=
2" - or 0.019" at the valve.
>>>>> How about when you have 1.5 rocker arms?  Drove the Bugeye around yest=
erday.  Runs great, still blue smoke on acceleration on a recent rebuild.  A=
t leat 1000 miles since rebuild.  I'm afraid the rings never seated properly=
.  Not sure of the cylinder wall surface during the rebuild as I did not so t=
hat part of it.
>>>>> Mike MacLean
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Saturday, October 31, 2015 1:26 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <spridg=
[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The 0.029 in. spec is a whole different thing used when you are assemb=
ling the engine.  If your engine is together and you just want to set the va=
lve clearance it should be 0.012 in. set cold.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Sent from my keyboard
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <spridgets@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>                                 Running (competition work) =3D 0.015 i=
n.
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/r=
[email-masked]
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/rr=
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/soa=
[email-masked]
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/frog=
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-E8EEB843-511A-48F6-B023-AC9641E76C45
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Agreed.&nbsp;<br><br>Ron Soave</div><d=
iv><br>On Nov 1, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:refisk@ch=
artermi.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><div><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3Dutf-8"><div>After thinking the geometry through I have to agree Hal. &=
nbsp; Hard to do for an old fart like me. &nbsp;Thinking it through that is.=
 &nbsp;LOL</div><div><br></div><div>Rick&nbsp;<br><br>Sent from my keyboard<=
/div><div><br>On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Hal Faulkner &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Although it feels strange, I wi=
ll beg to differ with Ron:&nbsp; Clearance is <b>measured at the valve</b>, b=
ut you are really setting the clearance <b>at the cam and follower</b>. Beca=
use it is not feasible to measure at the cam/follower, if the rocker ratio i=
s higher you must allow for this and set greater clearance at the valve to c=
ompensate.&nbsp; Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or something like that.&nbsp;=
 To correct for 1.5 rockers you should actually multiply the standard cleara=
nce by 1.5/1.25 which is 1.2.&nbsp; 1.2 times12 gives us a corrected clearan=
ce of 14.4thou.&nbsp; That said, this is not a terribly critical setting and=
 depending on the engine build could be a few thou more. &nbsp; <br></div>Ha=
l<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat,=
 Oct 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"au=
to"><div>It doesn't.&nbsp;<br><br>Ron Soave</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div=
><br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>Why does increa=
sing the rocker ratio cause a need for more clearance?<br><br>Sent from my k=
eyboard</div><div><br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridget=
s &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridget=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=

parts.</font></div>

  it.<br></div>

    cold.</font></div>

<br>
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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