Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Excessive oil leak -1275 cc - front end

From: daredelvis--- via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 11:30:19 -0700

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I had a similar problem with a rebuilt 948. It was a poorly installed timing=
 chain cover gasket. I got all of my money back from the builder ($0).=20
Brian

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Walt Swift via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:
>=20
> Just took the Bugeye for a 20 mile test run after restoration.  And I gott=
a leak - a serious one.  Front end.
>=20
> 1275 cc engine (rebuilt I think), 60 psi oil pressure, hums nicely, New PC=
V valve and tube connections to the front timing cover can and the intake ma=
nifold seem tight.  Not a bad leak when sitting, idling tuning carbs, but mo=
derate driving (< 3,500 rpm - 20 miles) and my garage floor has a 1/4 pt. pu=
ddle.=20
>=20
> A lot of the oil lays on the frame cross member before rolling onto the fl=
oor.  But the fan blades are clean, and oil isn't sprayed all over the front=
 of the engine compartment.  No leaks at the rocker cover.
>=20
> I'm thinking front seal leak?, rubber seal in sump front end leak?, cracke=
d joint between oil separator can and timing cover? Faulty pcv issue (wrong o=
r clogged valve cover cap)?
>=20
> Is it possible that something wrong in the pcv system would cause signific=
ant oil blowing out of the front seal?
>=20
> Any thoughts or guidance on tests, measurements or inspections that minimi=
ze the extent of parts removals to help diagnose?  It's a bear to get the ra=
diator out and in.
>=20
> I haven't done a compression test, yet, but plan to do one this morning.
>=20
> Attached foto shows some kinks in the radiator grill - they are an artifac=
t of the panorama function in my iPhone camera - not wrinkles in the core. ;=
-)
>=20
> I'd like to take the car up to the British Invasion Saturday without wreck=
ing the engine and without filling the trunk with gallons of GTX 10W40. =20
>=20
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>=20
> Walt
> 60 Bugeye ... so close to being done.
>=20
> =20
> ------------------------
>=20
> [email-masked]
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/darede=
[email-masked]

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I had a similar problem with a rebuilt=
 948. It was a poorly installed timing chain cover gasket. I got all of my m=
oney back from the builder ($0).&nbsp;</div><div>Brian<br><br><div><br></div=
></div><div><br>On Sep 15, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Walt Swift via Spridgets &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color:#000; b=
ackground-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, A=
rial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id=3D"yiv9610920777"><d=
iv id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442338181326_2867"><div style=3D"color:#000;backgroun=
d-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lu=
cida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442338181326_28=
66"><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085">Just took the B=
ugeye for a 20 mile test run after restoration. &nbsp;And I gotta leak - a s=
erious one. &nbsp;Front end.</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_14423=
25779756_4085"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_=
4085" dir=3D"ltr">1275 cc engine (rebuilt I think), 60 psi oil pressure, hum=
s nicely, New PCV valve and tube connections to the front timing cover can a=
nd the intake manifold seem tight. &nbsp;Not a bad leak when sitting, idling=
 tuning carbs, but moderate driving (&lt; 3,500 rpm - 20 miles) and my garag=
e floor has a 1/4 pt. puddle.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_=
1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16=
_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">A lot of the oil lays on the frame cros=
s member before rolling onto the floor. &nbsp;But the fan blades are clean, a=
nd oil isn't sprayed all over the front of the engine compartment. &nbsp;No l=
eaks at the rocker cover.</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_14423257=
79756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_14423=
25779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">I'm thinking front seal leak?, rubber seal in sum=
p front end leak?, cracked joint between oil separator can and timing cover?=
 Faulty pcv issue (wrong or clogged valve cover cap)?</div><div id=3D"yiv961=
0920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv=
9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">Is it possible that s=
omething wrong in the pcv system would cause significant oil blowing out of t=
he front seal?</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_40=
85" dir=3D"ltr">Any thoughts or guidance on tests, measurements or inspectio=
ns that minimize the extent of parts removals to help diagnose? &nbsp;It's a=
 bear to get the radiator out and in.</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_=
0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_=
16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">I haven't done a compression test, ye=
t, but plan to do one this morning.</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_=
1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16=
_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">Attached foto shows some kinks in the r=
adiator grill - they are an artifact of the panorama function in my iPhone c=
amera - not wrinkles in the core. ;-)</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_=
0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_=
16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">I'd like to take the car up to the Br=
itish Invasion Saturday without wrecking the engine and without filling the t=
runk with gallons of GTX 10W40. &nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16=
_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3=
_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">Any thoughts appreciated.</div><div i=
d=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><di=
v id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">Walt</div>=
<div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">60 Buge=
ye ... so close to being done.</div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_144=
2325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_=
1442325779756_4085" dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></div></=
blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>&lt;Pre-bonnet.jpg&gt;</div></bloc=
kquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>------------------------</span><=
br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spridg=
[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"h=
ttp://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><b=
r><span>Suggested annual donation: $12.75</span><br><span></span><br><span>A=
rchive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive<=
/a></span><br><span>Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://ww=
w.team.net/forums</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a></span><br></div>=
</blockquote></body></html>=

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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---

From: Bob Spruck via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 16:22:30 -0400

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I had a similar problem on my 67 Midget vintage race car at last 
December's race. Oil on the hot header sent up smoke that got me black 
flagged. After checking it out in my garage later, it seemed like it was 
the front engine plate. Pulled the engine and discovered that it was in 
fact a little less than completely flat and the the oil pan had a dent 
from the inside that was causing a less than flat seal with the bottom 
of the block. That's what I get from using parts from parts cars, 
despite checking them out.

Replaced both with other parts from parts cars and thought all was well, 
until the race this past weekend when the same thing happened, although 
less oil and smoke.

Oil leaks are very often one of the hardest things to find and fix. They 
also often require some trial and error - fix what you think was the 
offending part, put the engine back in the car and find  the leak is 
still there once it is up to pressure and temperature. If you can 
determine where the oil is really coming from it makes the fix easier. 
Arterial leaks are rare. It usually requires an engine removal, 
tear-down and inspection. If you are lucky it is an obvious gasket or 
flatness problem. But it still requires a fix, re installation, and 
running up to normal pressure and temperature before you know for sure 
it is fixed. At least that's my experience.

Now I have another wonderful opportunity to gain some more experience.

Lots of luck with your leak.

Bob

On 9/15/2015 2:30 PM, daredelvis--- via Spridgets wrote:
> I had a similar problem with a rebuilt 948. It was a poorly installed 
> timing chain cover gasket. I got all of my money back from the builder 
> ($0).
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Walt Swift via Spridgets 
>
>> Just took the Bugeye for a 20 mile test run after restoration.  And I 
>> gotta leak - a serious one.  Front end.
>>
>> 1275 cc engine (rebuilt I think), 60 psi oil pressure, hums nicely, 
>> New PCV valve and tube connections to the front timing cover can and 
>> the intake manifold seem tight.  Not a bad leak when sitting, idling 
>> tuning carbs, but moderate driving (< 3,500 rpm - 20 miles) and my 
>> garage floor has a 1/4 pt. puddle.
>>
>> A lot of the oil lays on the frame cross member before rolling onto 
>> the floor.  But the fan blades are clean, and oil isn't sprayed all 
>> over the front of the engine compartment.  No leaks at the rocker cover.
>>
>> I'm thinking front seal leak?, rubber seal in sump front end leak?, 
>> cracked joint between oil separator can and timing cover? Faulty pcv 
>> issue (wrong or clogged valve cover cap)?
>>
>> Is it possible that something wrong in the pcv system would cause 
>> significant oil blowing out of the front seal?
>>
>> Any thoughts or guidance on tests, measurements or inspections that 
>> minimize the extent of parts removals to help diagnose?  It's a bear 
>> to get the radiator out and in.
>>
>> Attached foto shows some kinks in the radiator grill - they are an 
>> artifact of the panorama function in my iPhone camera - not wrinkles 
>> in the core. ;-)
>>
>> I'd like to take the car up to the British Invasion Saturday without 
>> wrecking the engine and without filling the trunk with gallons of GTX 
>> 10W40.
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> [email-masked]
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <font size="+1"><font face="Arial">I had a similar problem on my 67
        Midget vintage race car at last December's race. Oil on the hot
        header sent up smoke that got me black flagged. After checking
        it out in my garage later, it seemed like it was the front
        engine plate. Pulled the engine and discovered that it was in
        fact a little less than completely flat and the the oil pan had
        a dent from the inside that was causing a less than flat seal
        with the bottom of the block. That's what I get from using parts
        from parts cars, despite checking them out.<br>
        <br>
        Replaced both with other parts from parts cars and thought all
        was well, until the race this past weekend when the same thing
        happened, although less oil and smoke. <br>
        <br>
        Oil leaks are very often one of the hardest things to find and
        fix. They also often require some trial and error - fix what you
        think was the offending part, put the engine back in the car and
        find  the leak is still there once it is up to pressure and
        temperature. If you can determine where the oil is really coming
        from it makes the fix easier. Arterial leaks are rare. It
        usually requires an engine removal, tear-down and inspection. If
        you are lucky it is an obvious gasket or flatness problem. But
        it still requires a fix, re installation, and running up to
        normal pressure and temperature before you know for sure it is
        fixed. At least that's my experience.<br>
        <br>
        Now I have another wonderful opportunity to gain some more
        experience.<br>
        <br>
        Lots of luck with your leak.<br>
        <br>
        Bob<br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </font></font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/15/2015 2:30 PM, daredelvis--- via
      Spridgets wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div>I had a similar problem with a rebuilt 948. It was a poorly
        installed timing chain cover gasket. I got all of my money back
        from the builder ($0). </div>
      <div>Brian<br>
        <br>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On Sep 15, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Walt Swift via Spridgets &lt;<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email-masked]"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></a>&gt;
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
            font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
            Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">
            <div id="yiv9610920777">
              <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1442338181326_2867">
                <div
                  style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                  Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
                  sans-serif;font-size:16px;"
                  id="yui_3_16_0_1_1442338181326_2866">
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085">Just
                    took the Bugeye for a 20 mile test run after
                    restoration.  And I gotta leak - a serious one.
                     Front end.</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">1275 cc engine (rebuilt I think), 60 psi
                    oil pressure, hums nicely, New PCV valve and tube
                    connections to the front timing cover can and the
                    intake manifold seem tight.  Not a bad leak when
                    sitting, idling tuning carbs, but moderate driving
                    (&lt; 3,500 rpm - 20 miles) and my garage floor has
                    a 1/4 pt. puddle. </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">A lot of the oil lays on the frame cross
                    member before rolling onto the floor.  But the fan
                    blades are clean, and oil isn't sprayed all over the
                    front of the engine compartment.  No leaks at the
                    rocker cover.</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">I'm thinking front seal leak?, rubber seal
                    in sump front end leak?, cracked joint between oil
                    separator can and timing cover? Faulty pcv issue
                    (wrong or clogged valve cover cap)?</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">Is it possible that something wrong in the
                    pcv system would cause significant oil blowing out
                    of the front seal?</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">Any thoughts or guidance on tests,
                    measurements or inspections that minimize the extent
                    of parts removals to help diagnose?  It's a bear to
                    get the radiator out and in.</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">I haven't done a compression test, yet,
                    but plan to do one this morning.</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">Attached foto shows some kinks in the
                    radiator grill - they are an artifact of the
                    panorama function in my iPhone camera - not wrinkles
                    in the core. ;-)</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">I'd like to take the car up to the British
                    Invasion Saturday without wrecking the engine and
                    without filling the trunk with gallons of GTX 10W40.
                     </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">Any thoughts appreciated.</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">Walt</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr">60 Bugeye ... so close to being done.</div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div id="yiv9610920777yui_3_16_0_1_1442325779756_4085"
                    dir="ltr"> </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>&lt;Pre-bonnet.jpg&gt;</div>
      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div><span>------------------------</span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>Donate: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br>
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        </div>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">------------------------

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>
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