Subject: [Spridgets] VIN number issue

From: Bob Spruck via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:30:18 -0400

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On a Bugeye I am interested in, I have discovered an apparent anomaly in 
the year and VIN. The car has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 
1961 Mk1 and has been registered in two states as such. However, the VIN 
is listed on both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 
59,000 Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a 
five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four digit 
number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59.

Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way of 
determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?

Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?

Bob Spruck
Sharpsburg, GA

'72 Midget
'67 Midget Vintage Racer
Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye

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    <font size="+1"><font face="Arial">On a Bugeye I am interested in, I
        have discovered an apparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The car
        has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been
        registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed on
        both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000
        Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a
        five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four
        digit number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59. <br>
        <br>
        Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way
        of determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?<br>
        <br>
        Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?<br>
        <br>
        Bob Spruck<br>
        Sharpsburg, GA <br>
        <br>
        '72 Midget<br>
        '67 Midget Vintage Racer<br>
        Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye<br>
        <br>
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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Billy Zoom via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:12:14 -0700

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In most states they were whatever year they were sold.

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<FONT FACE=3D"Geneva, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:14.0p=
x'>In most states they were whatever year they were sold.</SPAN></FONT>
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[email-masked]

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From: Gerard via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 11:51:00 -0700

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Bob,

One thing you could do to give some peace of mind is check the the =
number sequence of the RD door pillar tag. It should begin with the =
letters =E2=80=9CBAE=E2=80=9D. This is the factory recorded tag that =
will appear on the BVMIHT certificate if you ordered one. Then check =
that against the chassis pate under the carbs. Also look for an engraved =
number on the body itself, top of the footwell, near where the wiring =
loom exists the firewall. If you have the original engine number, add =
that too. All those numbers are typically within 1000 digits of each =
other, often fail lose or only a couple hundred apart. If those numbers =
reconcile, you=E2=80=99re probably good, but only a BMIHT certificate =
will give you confirmation. As has been already suggested, import cars =
back then were typically dated by when they were sold, not when they =
were made. As Rick says, there were no US export nor home market =
=E2=80=9961=E2=80=99s.

Gerard

> On Mar 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 22:24:42 -0400
> Cc: Spridget list <[email-masked] =
> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] VIN number issue
> Message-ID: <[email-masked] =
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>=20
> Well Bob, sounds like something got mixed up somewhere.  First off =
there were a little less than 49,000 Bugeyes made and there were no =
'61's, unless you count the CKD Australian and Italian cars.  The last =
fully assembled Bugeye was built in November 1960.  However, the car in =
question could have been built earlier and sold and titled in 1961.
>=20
> The last car with a 4 digit chassis number would have been built very =
early in 1959.  My Bugeye was built in May 1959 and has a chassis number =
of 15,XXX.  =20
>=20
> On a Bugeye the only other place where the true chassis number would =
appear is in crayon on the underside of the bonnet and under the hardura =
cover over the rear axle. Probably not still there today.   There is a =
body number tag on the right side door pillar that can be used by the =
British Motor Heritage people to give you the factory build record =
information for the car.  But it costs about $75.  There is also a =
number tag on the left hand door pillar, but it is not in the factory =
build records. =20
>=20
> Rick
> '59 & '61 Sprites=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Bob,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">One =
thing you could do to give some peace of mind is check the the number =
sequence of the RD door pillar tag. It should begin with the letters =
=E2=80=9CBAE=E2=80=9D. This is the factory recorded tag that will appear =
on the BVMIHT certificate if you ordered one. Then check that against =
the chassis pate under the carbs. Also look for an engraved number on =
the body itself, top of the footwell, near where the wiring loom exists =
the firewall. If you have the original engine number, add that too. All =
those numbers are typically within 1000 digits of each other, often fail =
lose or only a couple hundred apart. If those numbers reconcile, =
you=E2=80=99re probably good, but only a BMIHT certificate will give you =
confirmation. As has been already suggested, import cars back then were =
typically dated by when they were sold, not when they were made. As Rick =
says, there were no US export nor home market =E2=80=9961=E2=80=99s.</div>=
<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Gerard</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Mar 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Message: 3</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 22:24:42 -0400</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">From: Rick Fisk &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">To: Bob Spruck =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Cc: Spridget list =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Subject: Re: [Spridgets] =
VIN number issue</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Message-ID: &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Content-Type: text/plain; =
charset=3D"us-ascii"</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Well Bob, sounds like =
something got mixed up somewhere. &nbsp;First off there were a little =
less than 49,000 Bugeyes made and there were no '61's, unless you count =
the CKD Australian and Italian cars. &nbsp;The last fully assembled =
Bugeye was built in November 1960. &nbsp;However, the car in question =
could have been built earlier and sold and titled in 1961.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">The last car with a 4 digit chassis number would =
have been built very early in 1959. &nbsp;My Bugeye was built in May =
1959 and has a chassis number of 15,XXX. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">On a Bugeye the only other place where the true =
chassis number would appear is in crayon on the underside of the bonnet =
and under the hardura cover over the rear axle. Probably not still there =
today. &nbsp;&nbsp;There is a body number tag on the right side door =
pillar that can be used by the British Motor Heritage people to give you =
the factory build record information for the car. &nbsp;But it costs =
about $75. &nbsp;There is also a number tag on the left hand door =
pillar, but it is not in the factory build records. &nbsp;</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Rick</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
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