Subject: Re: [Spridgets] VIN number issue

From: derf via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:02:15 -0500

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Many Spridgets were kept over by dealers and sold as later year models.
Since there were little or no changes, a 1959 could have been sold new in
1960 as a 1960 or 1961 model.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Bob Spruck via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>  On a Bugeye I am interested in, I have discovered an apparent anomaly in
> the year and VIN. The car has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961
> Mk1 and has been registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is
> listed on both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000
> Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a five digit
> number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four digit number is correct,
> it should be, I expect, maybe a '59.
>
> Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way of
> determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?
>
> Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?
>
> Bob Spruck
> Sharpsburg, GA
>
> '72 Midget
> '67 Midget Vintage Racer
> Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> [email-masked]
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
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>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Many Spridgets were kept over by dealers and sold as later=
 year models.=C2=A0 Since there were little or no changes, a 1959 could hav=
e been sold new in 1960 as a 1960 or 1961 model.<br><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 8:30 P=
M, Bob Spruck via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridge=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <font size=3D"+1"><font face=3D"Arial">On a Bugeye I am interested in, =
I
        have discovered an apparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The car
        has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been
        registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed on
        both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000
        Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a &#39;61 should have a
        five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four
        digit number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a &#39;59. <=
br>
        <br>
        Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way
        of determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?<br>
        <br>
        Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?<br>
        <br>
        Bob Spruck<br>
        Sharpsburg, GA <br>
        <br>
        &#39;72 Midget<br>
        &#39;67 Midget Vintage Racer<br>
        Maybe a &#39;59 or &#39;61 Bugeye<br>
        <br>
      </font></font>
  </div>

<br>------------------------<br>
<br>
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ets/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 22:24:42 -0400

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Well Bob, sounds like something got mixed up somewhere.  First off there wer=
e a little less than 49,000 Bugeyes made and there were no '61's, unless you=
 count the CKD Australian and Italian cars.  The last fully assembled Bugeye=
 was built in November 1960.  However, the car in question could have been b=
uilt earlier and sold and titled in 1961.

The last car with a 4 digit chassis number would have been built very early i=
n 1959.  My Bugeye was built in May 1959 and has a chassis number of 15,XXX.=
  =20

On a Bugeye the only other place where the true chassis number would appear i=
s in crayon on the underside of the bonnet and under the hardura cover over t=
he rear axle. Probably not still there today.   There is a body number tag o=
n the right side door pillar that can be used by the British Motor Heritage p=
eople to give you the factory build record information for the car.  But it c=
osts about $75.  There is also a number tag on the left hand door pillar, bu=
t it is not in the factory build records. =20

Rick
'59 & '61 Sprites=20

Sent from my keyboard

> On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:30 PM, Bob Spruck via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
m.net> wrote:
>=20
> On a Bugeye I am interested in, I have discovered an apparent anomaly in t=
he year and VIN. The car has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1=
 and has been registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed o=
n both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000 Bugeyes and=
 ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a five digit number, some=
where approaching 59,000. If the four digit number is correct, it should be,=
 I expect, maybe a '59.=20
>=20
> Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way of determi=
ning the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?
> Sharpsburg, GA=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/refisk=
@chartermi.net

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Well Bob, sounds like something got mi=
xed up somewhere. &nbsp;First off there were a little less than 49,000 Bugey=
es made and there were no '61's, unless you count the CKD Australian and Ita=
lian cars. &nbsp;The last fully assembled Bugeye was built in November 1960.=
 &nbsp;However, the car in question could have been built earlier and sold a=
nd titled in 1961.</div><div><br></div><div>The last car with a 4 digit chas=
sis number would have been built very early in 1959. &nbsp;My Bugeye was bui=
lt in May 1959 and has a chassis number of 15,XXX. &nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><b=
r></div><div>On a Bugeye the only other place where the true chassis number w=
ould appear is in crayon on the underside of the bonnet and under the hardur=
a cover over the rear axle. Probably not still there today. &nbsp; There is a=
 body number tag on the right side door pillar that can be used by the Briti=
sh Motor Heritage people to give you the factory build record information fo=
r the car. &nbsp;But it costs about $75. &nbsp;There is also a number tag on=
 the left hand door pillar, but it is not in the factory build records. &nbs=
p;</div><div><br></div><div>Rick</div><div>'59 &amp; '61 Sprites&nbsp;<br><b=
r>Sent from my keyboard</div><div><br>On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:30 PM, Bob Spruc=
k via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spridgets@au=
tox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>
 =20

    <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"=
 =20
 =20
    <font size=3D"+1"><font face=3D"Arial">On a Bugeye I am interested in, I=

        have discovered an apparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The car
        has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been
        registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed on
        both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000
        Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a
        five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four
        digit number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59. <br>
        <br>
        Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way
        of determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?<br>
        <br>
        Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?<br>
        <br>
        Bob Spruck<br>
        Sharpsburg, GA <br>
        <br>
        '72 Midget<br>
        '67 Midget Vintage Racer<br>
        Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye<br>
        <br>
      </font></font>
 =20

</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>--------------------=
----</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</=
a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation: $12.75</span><br><span></span>=
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><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: George Marinos via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 23:18:20 -0400

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Chassis number is also found written in crayon on the back side of the dash.=

George

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 23, 2015, at 10:24 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
m.net> wrote:
>=20
> Well Bob, sounds like something got mixed up somewhere.  First off there w=
ere a little less than 49,000 Bugeyes made and there were no '61's, unless y=
ou count the CKD Australian and Italian cars.  The last fully assembled Buge=
ye was built in November 1960.  However, the car in question could have been=
 built earlier and sold and titled in 1961.
>=20
> The last car with a 4 digit chassis number would have been built very earl=
y in 1959.  My Bugeye was built in May 1959 and has a chassis number of 15,X=
XX.  =20
>=20
> On a Bugeye the only other place where the true chassis number would appea=
r is in crayon on the underside of the bonnet and under the hardura cover ov=
er the rear axle. Probably not still there today.   There is a body number t=
ag on the right side door pillar that can be used by the British Motor Herit=
age people to give you the factory build record information for the car.  Bu=
t it costs about $75.  There is also a number tag on the left hand door pill=
ar, but it is not in the factory build records. =20
>=20
> Rick
> '59 & '61 Sprites=20
>=20
> Sent from my keyboard
>=20
>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:30 PM, Bob Spruck via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
>>=20
>> Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way of determ=
ining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/refis=
[email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/gmari2=
@verizon.net

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Chassis number is also found written i=
n crayon on the back side of the dash.</div><div>George<br><br>Sent from my i=
Pad</div><div><br>On Mar 23, 2015, at 10:24 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><meta http-equiv=3D"cont=
ent-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div>Well Bob, sounds like s=
omething got mixed up somewhere. &nbsp;First off there were a little less th=
an 49,000 Bugeyes made and there were no '61's, unless you count the CKD Aus=
tralian and Italian cars. &nbsp;The last fully assembled Bugeye was built in=
 November 1960. &nbsp;However, the car in question could have been built ear=
lier and sold and titled in 1961.</div><div><br></div><div>The last car with=
 a 4 digit chassis number would have been built very early in 1959. &nbsp;My=
 Bugeye was built in May 1959 and has a chassis number of 15,XXX. &nbsp;&nbs=
p;</div><div><br></div><div>On a Bugeye the only other place where the true c=
hassis number would appear is in crayon on the underside of the bonnet and u=
nder the hardura cover over the rear axle. Probably not still there today. &=
nbsp; There is a body number tag on the right side door pillar that can be u=
sed by the British Motor Heritage people to give you the factory build recor=
d information for the car. &nbsp;But it costs about $75. &nbsp;There is also=
 a number tag on the left hand door pillar, but it is not in the factory bui=
ld records. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Rick</div><div>'59 &amp; '61 Spr=
ites&nbsp;<br><br>Sent from my keyboard</div><div><br>On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:=
30 PM, Bob Spruck via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div>
 =20

 =20
 =20

><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><s=
pan>------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span><=
/span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://w=
ww.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation: $12.7=
5</span><br><span></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/a=
rchive">http://www.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span>Forums: <a href=3D"h=
ttp://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a></span><br><span>Un=
subscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets=
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verizon.net</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: GUY DAY via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 10:46:54 +0000

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Should you be wary about anomalies such as this? =A0If you had ever been th=
e owner of a car stolen from you then this would ring very loud warning bel=
ls.=A0=0AIf the engine is meant to be original then look for the aluminium =
engine number plate riveted on a horizontal platform towards the front of t=
he block. =A0Has that gone missing as well? =A0Then you go looking for pain=
t colour oddities and because it is a 50 year old car there is guaranteed t=
o be something.=A0=0A=0AThere can be 1001 good, honest reasons for the oddi=
ties with this motor but will you be thinking, in the back of your mind, th=
at this was someone's pride and joy before it was taken and changed into wh=
at is seen before me. =A0If you don't get it then some else will and does y=
our inner voice say, 'Its a 50 odd year old car, there are bound to be some=
 faults', or does it say, 'This car isn't right, stay well clear'.=0A=0AIde=
ntifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45 year old Sp=
rite has them where they should be. =A0It is not just the anomaly in the nu=
mber it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be looked into.=0A=
=0ASorry to be so negative but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plu=
ral) it does bring things to the fore again.=0A=0A=0AGuy R Day=A0=0A=0A=0A=
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bob Spruck via Spr=
idgets <[email-masked]>=0ATo: Spridget list <[email-masked]=
.net> =0ASent: Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 1:30=0ASubject: [Spridgets] VIN numb=
er issue=0A =0A=0A=0AOn a Bugeye I am interested in, I have discovered an a=
pparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The car has no VIN plate but is consid=
ered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been registered in two states as such. Howeve=
r, the VIN is listed on both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, w=
hat, 59,000 Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a=
 five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four digit number =
is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59. =0A=0AIs there any other p=
lace that the VIN appears? Or any other way=0A        of determining the tr=
ue VIN number or true year of manufacture?=0A=0APerhaps I should just leave=
 well enough alone?=0A=0ABob Spruck=0ASharpsburg, GA =0A=0A'72 Midget=0A'67=
 Midget Vintage Racer=0AMaybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye=0A=0A =0A----------------=
--------=0A=[email-masked]=0A=0ADonate: http://www.team.net/don=
ate.html=0ASuggested annual donation: $12.75=0A=0AArchive: http://www.team.=
net/archive=0AForums: http://www.team.net/forums=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
---1072900504-50143886-1427194014=:72320
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Should you be wary ab=
out anomalies such as this? &nbsp;If you had ever been the owner of a car s=
tolen from you then this would ring very loud warning bells.&nbsp;</span></=
div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,=
 helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"=
><span>If the engine is meant to be original then look for the aluminium en=
gine number plate riveted on a horizontal platform towards the front of the=
 block. &nbsp;Has that gone missing as well? &nbsp;Then you go looking for =
paint colour oddities and because it is a 50 year old car there is guarante=
ed to be something.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: norma=
l; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>T=
here can be 1001 good, honest reasons for the oddities with this motor but =
will you be thinking, in the back of your mind, that this was someone's pri=
de and joy before it was taken and changed into what is seen before me. &nb=
sp;If you don't get it then some else will and does your inner voice say, '=
Its a 50 odd year old car, there are bound to be some faults', or does it s=
ay, 'This car isn't right, stay well clear'.</span></div><div style=3D"colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></di=
v><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, h=
elvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><=
span>Identifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45
 year old Sprite has them where they should be. &nbsp;It is not just the an=
omaly in the number it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be =
looked into.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px=
; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background=
-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0,=
 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style=
: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Sorry to be so negative but=
 as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plural) it does bring things to t=
he fore again.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16=
px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-sty=
le: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>G=
uy R Day&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16=
px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-sty=
le: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div sty=
le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br><=
/span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family=
: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: trans=
parent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-siz=
e: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;
 background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <d=
iv style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <=
div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font=
-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"=
Arial"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bob Spruck vi=
a Spridgets &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-wei=
ght: bold;">To:</span></b> Spridget list &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <=
br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 24 Marc=
h 2015, 1:30<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> =
[Spridgets] VIN number issue<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_contain=
er"><br><div id=3D"yiv3585207165">=0A  =0A=0A    =0A  =0A  <div>=0A    <fon=
t size=3D"+1"><font face=3D"Arial">On a Bugeye I am interested in, I=0A    =
    have discovered an apparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The car=0A    =
    has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been=0A    =
    registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed on=0A     =
   both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000=0A       =
 Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a=0A        =
five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four=0A        digi=
t number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59. <br>=0A        <b=
r>=0A        Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other wa=
y=0A        of determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?=
<br>=0A        <br>=0A        Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone=
?<br>=0A        <br>=0A        Bob Spruck<br>=0A        Sharpsburg, GA <br>=
=0A        <br>=0A        '72 Midget<br>=0A        '67 Midget Vintage Racer=
<br>=0A        Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye<br>=0A        <br>=0A      </font>=
</font>=0A  </div>=0A=0A</div><br>------------------------<br><br><a ymailt=
o=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>S=
uggested annual donation: $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team=
.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums: =
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t/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailma=
n/options/spridgets/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br><br><br></div>=
 </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 09:09:36 -0400

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The number plate on a Bugeye does not fall off on it's own.  But they were f=
astened to the car with crosshead screws.  To many people that means take it=
 off when doing a "restoration".  And then for whatever reason the plate doe=
s not get reinstalled.

The fact that the car has been registered in two different states indicates t=
o me that it's probably OK.  But check the other locations for numbers.  :-)=

Sent from my keyboard

> On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
et> wrote:
>=20
> Should you be wary about anomalies such as this?  If you had ever been the=
 owner of a car stolen from you then this would ring very loud warning bells=
.=20
> If the engine is meant to be original then look for the aluminium engine n=
umber plate riveted on a horizontal platform towards the front of the block.=
  Has that gone missing as well?  Then you go looking for paint colour oddit=
ies and because it is a 50 year old car there is guaranteed to be something.=
=20
>=20
> There can be 1001 good, honest reasons for the oddities with this motor bu=
t will you be thinking, in the back of your mind, that this was someone's pr=
ide and joy before it was taken and changed into what is seen before me.  If=
 you don't get it then some else will and does your inner voice say, 'Its a 5=
0 odd year old car, there are bound to be some faults', or does it say, 'Thi=
s car isn't right, stay well clear'.
>=20
> Identifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45 year ol=
d Sprite has them where they should be.  It is not just the anomaly in the n=
umber it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be looked into.
>=20
> Sorry to be so negative but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plura=
l) it does bring things to the fore again.
>=20
>=20
> Guy R Day=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> From: Bob Spruck via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
> To: Spridget list <[email-masked]>=20
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 1:30
> Subject: [Spridgets] VIN number issue
>=20
> Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye

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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>The number plate on a Bugeye does not f=
all off on it's own. &nbsp;But they were fastened to the car with crosshead s=
crews. &nbsp;To many people that means take it off when doing a "restoration=
". &nbsp;And then for whatever reason the plate does not get reinstalled.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>The fact that the car has been registered in two diff=
erent states indicates to me that it's probably OK. &nbsp;But check the othe=
r locations for numbers. &nbsp;:-)<br><br>Sent from my keyboard</div><div><b=
r>On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:s=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></di=
v><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:=
#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Sh=
ould you be wary about anomalies such as this? &nbsp;If you had ever been th=
e owner of a car stolen from you then this would ring very loud warning bell=
s.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; fon=
t-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color=
: transparent;"><span>If the engine is meant to be original then look for th=
e aluminium engine number plate riveted on a horizontal platform towards the=
 front of the block. &nbsp;Has that gone missing as well? &nbsp;Then you go l=
ooking for paint colour oddities and because it is a 50 year old car there i=
s guaranteed to be something.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style=
: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D=
"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-s=
erif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>There can be=
 1001 good, honest reasons for the oddities with this motor but will you be t=
hinking, in the back of your mind, that this was someone's pride and joy bef=
ore it was taken and changed into what is seen before me. &nbsp;If you don't=
 get it then some else will and does your inner voice say, 'Its a 50 odd yea=
r old car, there are bound to be some faults', or does it say, 'This car isn=
't right, stay well clear'.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); f=
ont-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: norma=
l; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;=
 font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Identifying plate=
s do not normally fall off on their own and my 45
 year old Sprite has them where they should be. &nbsp;It is not just the ano=
maly in the number it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be lo=
oked into.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; f=
ont-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-col=
or: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); f=
ont-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: norma=
l; background-color: transparent;"><span>Sorry to be so negative but as an o=
wner who has had cars taken (yes, plural) it does bring things to the fore a=
gain.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-f=
amily: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: t=
ransparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-=
size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; b=
ackground-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: r=
gb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; fon=
t-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Guy R Day&nbsp;</span=
></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: aria=
l, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;=
"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px;=
 font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-c=
olor: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0)=
; font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: no=
rmal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-ser=
if; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></d=
iv><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, h=
elvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;
 background-color: transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <di=
v style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <di=
v style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-si=
ze: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Aria=
l"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bob Spruck via Spr=
idgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked].=
net</a>&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Spridge=
t list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked].=
net</a>&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tues=
day, 24 March 2015, 1:30<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:<=
/span></b> [Spridgets] VIN number issue<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_m=
sg_container"><br><div id=3D"yiv3585207165">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div>

</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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------------------------

[email-masked]

--===============7474655176842536116==--

---

From: GUY DAY via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:23:25 +0000

--===============0616804323208194691==

--1414057963-577642010-1427203405=:76241
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This is the chassis (VIN) and engine plates=A0I was referring to;=A0not the=
 registration number plate. =A0Having said that - this would appear to be t=
he one that does fall off most as sometimes the cross head screws will undo=
 with vibration. =A0<smile> =A0The rivets holding the VIN and engine plates=
 don't, they have to be taken off on purpose - but as said, there can be va=
lid reasons for this.=0A=0AGuy R Day=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________=
_____=0A From: Rick Fisk <[email-masked]>=0ATo: GUY DAY <grday@btinte=
rnet.com> =0ACc: Bob Spruck <[email-masked]>; Spridget list <Spridgets@=
autox.team.net> =0ASent: Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 13:09=0ASubject: Re: [Spri=
dgets] VIN number issue=0A =0A=0A=0AThe number plate on a Bugeye does not f=
all off on it's own. =A0But they were fastened to the car with crosshead sc=
rews. =A0To many people that means take it off when doing a "restoration". =
=A0And then for whatever reason the plate does not get reinstalled.=0A=0ATh=
e fact that the car has been registered in two different states indicates t=
o me that it's probably OK. =A0But check the other locations for numbers. =
=A0:-)=0A=0ASent from my keyboard=0A=0AOn Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY=
 via Spridgets <[email-masked]> wrote:=0A=0A=0AShould you be wary=
 about anomalies such as this? =A0If you had ever been the owner of a car s=
tolen from you then this would ring very loud warning bells.=A0=0A>If the e=
ngine is meant to be original then look for the aluminium engine number pla=
te riveted on a horizontal platform towards the front of the block. =A0Has =
that gone missing as well? =A0Then you go looking for paint colour oddities=
 and because it is a 50 year old car there is guaranteed to be something.=
=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>There can be 1001 good, honest reasons for the oddities with=
 this motor but will you be thinking, in the back of your mind, that this w=
as someone's pride and joy before it was taken and changed into what is see=
n before me. =A0If you don't get it then some else will and does your inner=
 voice say, 'Its a 50 odd year old car, there are bound to be some faults',=
 or does it say, 'This car isn't right, stay well clear'.=0A>=0A>=0A>Identi=
fying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45 year old Sprit=
e has them where they should be. =A0It is not just the anomaly in the numbe=
r it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be looked into.=0A>=
=0A>=0A>Sorry to be so negative but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes=
, plural) it does bring things to the fore again.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Guy R =
Day=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>_____________=
___________________=0A> From: Bob Spruck via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
m.net>=0A>To: Spridget list <[email-masked]> =0A>Sent: Tuesday, 2=
4 March 2015, 1:30=0A>Subject: [Spridgets] VIN number issue=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A=
>On a Bugeye I am interested in, I have discovered an apparent anomaly in t=
he year and VIN. The car has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk=
1 and has been registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed=
 on both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000 Bugeyes =
and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a five digit number, =
somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four digit number is correct, it shoul=
d be, I expect, maybe a '59. =0A>=0A>Is there any other place that the VIN =
appears? Or any other way=0A        of determining the true VIN number or t=
rue year of manufacture?=0A>=0A>Perhaps I should just leave well enough alo=
ne?=0A>=0A>Bob Spruck=0A>Sharpsburg, GA =0A>=0A>'72 Midget=0A>'67 Midget Vi=
ntage Racer=0A>Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye=0A>=0A> =0A=0A>
--1414057963-577642010-1427203405=:76241
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>This is the chassis (=
VIN) and engine plates&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">I was r=
eferring to;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;not the registrat=
ion number plate. &nbsp;Having said that - this would appear to be the one =
that does fall off most as sometimes the cross head screws will undo with v=
ibration. &nbsp;&lt;smile&gt; &nbsp;The rivets holding the VIN and engine p=
lates don't, they have to be taken off on purpose - but as said, there can =
be valid reasons for this.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); f=
ont-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: norm=
al; background-color: transparent;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br></=
span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:=
 arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color:
 transparent;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Guy R Day</span></div><div>=
<span></span></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; background-color: transpa=
rent;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <=
div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> =
<div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; fon=
t-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D=
"Arial"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Rick Fisk &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</s=
pan></b> GUY DAY &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b><span style=3D"font-we=
ight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Bob Spruck &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Spridget=
 list &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: =
bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 13:09<br> <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Spridgets] VIN number issue<b=
r> </font> </div>
 <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br><div id=3D"yiv2590157070"><div><div>The=
 number plate on a Bugeye does not fall off on it's own. &nbsp;But they wer=
e fastened to the car with crosshead screws. &nbsp;To many people that mean=
s take it off when doing a "restoration". &nbsp;And then for whatever reaso=
n the plate does not get reinstalled.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv>The fact that the car has been registered in two different states indica=
tes to me that it's probably OK. &nbsp;But check the other locations for nu=
mbers. &nbsp;:-)<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard=
</div><div><div class=3D"yiv2590157070yqt0743328313" id=3D"yiv2590157070yqt=
fd13970"><br clear=3D"none">On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY via Spridg=
ets &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:spridgets@auto=
x.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spri=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></=
div></div><div
 class=3D"yiv2590157070yqt0743328313" id=3D"yiv2590157070yqtfd12009"><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255=
, 255);"><div><span>Should you be wary about anomalies such as this? &nbsp;=
If you had ever been the owner of a car stolen from you then this would rin=
g very loud warning bells.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0,=
 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style=
: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>If the engine is meant to b=
e original then look for the aluminium engine number plate riveted on a hor=
izontal platform towards the front of the block. &nbsp;Has that gone missin=
g as well? &nbsp;Then you go looking for paint colour oddities and because =
it is a 50 year old car there is guaranteed to be something.&nbsp;</span></=
div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,
 helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"=
><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); f=
ont-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: norm=
al; background-color: transparent;"><span>There can be 1001 good, honest re=
asons for the oddities with this motor but will you be thinking, in the bac=
k of your mind, that this was someone's pride and joy before it was taken a=
nd changed into what is seen before me. &nbsp;If you don't get it then some=
 else will and does your inner voice say, 'Its a 50 odd year old car, there=
 are bound to be some faults', or does it say, 'This car isn't right, stay =
well clear'.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px=
; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background=
-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica,
 sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Iden=
tifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45=0A year old =
Sprite has them where they should be. &nbsp;It is not just the anomaly in t=
he number it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be looked int=
o.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-fam=
ily: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: tr=
ansparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(=
0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-=
style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Sorry to be so negativ=
e but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plural) it does bring things=
 to the fore again.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-siz=
e: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; bac=
kground-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div sty=
le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color:
 transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: r=
gb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; fo=
nt-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Guy R Day&nbsp;</sp=
an></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: a=
rial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transpar=
ent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style:=
 normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></=
div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,=
 helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"=
><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); f=
ont-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: norm=
al; background-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><=
div
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><=
br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>  <div style=
=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div styl=
e=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 1=
2pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> =
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bob Spruck via Spridg=
ets &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:spridgets@auto=
x.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spri=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"> <b><span style=3D"font-weig=
ht:bold;">To:</span></b> Spridget list &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rec=
t" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br clear=
=3D"none"> <b><span
 style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 1:30<=
br clear=3D"none"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>=
 [Spridgets] VIN number issue<br clear=3D"none"> </font> </div> <div class=
=3D"yiv2590157070y_msg_container"><br clear=3D"none"><div id=3D"yiv25901570=
70">=0A  =0A=0A    =0A  =0A  <div>=0A    <font size=3D"+1"><font face=3D"Ar=
ial">On a Bugeye I am interested in, I=0A        have discovered an apparen=
t anomaly in the year and VIN. The car=0A        has no VIN plate but is co=
nsidered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been=0A        registered in two states a=
s such. However, the VIN is listed on=0A        both registrations as AN5L =
xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000=0A        Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a =
car considered a '61 should have a=0A        five digit number, somewhere a=
pproaching 59,000. If the four=0A        digit number is correct, it should=
 be, I expect, maybe a '59. <br clear=3D"none">=0A        <br clear=3D"none=
">=0A        Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other wa=
y=0A        of determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?=
<br clear=3D"none">=0A        <br clear=3D"none">=0A        Perhaps I shoul=
d just leave well enough alone?<br clear=3D"none">=0A        <br clear=3D"n=
one">=0A        Bob Spruck<br clear=3D"none">=0A        Sharpsburg, GA <br =
clear=3D"none">=0A        <br clear=3D"none">=0A        '72 Midget<br clear=
=3D"none">=0A        '67 Midget Vintage Racer<br clear=3D"none">=0A        =
Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye<br clear=3D"none">=0A        <br clear=3D"none">=
=0A      </font></font>=0A  </div>=0A=0A</div></div></div></div></div></div=
></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></blo=
ckquote></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 10:02:26 -0400

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I think we are talking about different things here.  :-)  I believe the "Reg=
istration" plate you are referring to is what we call a "License" plate here=
 in the states.  This is the plate on the rear (and in some states the front=
) of the car. =20

The chassis ID plate on a Bugeye is not fastened with rivets, it's fastened w=
ith crosshead screws.    I'm referring to the ID plate mounted on the chassi=
s rail under the carbs.  There is no riveted VIN plate on a Bugeye in the US=
A.  The engine plate was riveted, but makes no difference, because it was no=
t used for registration purposes.  Hot tanking the engine block will dissolv=
e the aluminum engine plate.

Sent from my keyboard

> On Mar 24, 2015, at 9:23 AM, GUY DAY <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> This is the chassis (VIN) and engine plates I was referring to; not the re=
gistration number plate.  Having said that - this would appear to be the one=
 that does fall off most as sometimes the cross head screws will undo with v=
ibration.  <smile>  The rivets holding the VIN and engine plates don't, they=
 have to be taken off on purpose - but as said, there can be valid reasons f=
or this.
>=20
> Guy R Day
>=20
>=20
> From: Rick Fisk <[email-masked]>
> To: GUY DAY <[email-masked]>=20
> Cc: Bob Spruck <[email-masked]>; Spridget list <[email-masked]=
et>=20
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 13:09
> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] VIN number issue
>=20
> The number plate on a Bugeye does not fall off on it's own.  But they were=
 fastened to the car with crosshead screws.  To many people that means take i=
t off when doing a "restoration".  And then for whatever reason the plate do=
es not get reinstalled.
>=20
> The fact that the car has been registered in two different states indicate=
s to me that it's probably OK.  But check the other locations for numbers.  :=
-)
>=20
> Sent from my keyboard
>=20
>> On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY via Spridgets <[email-masked].=
net> wrote:
>>=20
>=20
>> Should you be wary about anomalies such as this?  If you had ever been th=
s.=20
>>=20
>> There can be 1001 good, honest reasons for the oddities with this motor b=
ut will you be thinking, in the back of your mind, that this was someone's p=
ride and joy before it was taken and changed into what is seen before me.  I=
f you don't get it then some else will and does your inner voice say, 'Its a=
 50 odd year old car, there are bound to be some faults', or does it say, 'T=
his car isn't right, stay well clear'.
>>=20
>> Identifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45 year o=
ld Sprite has them where they should be.  It is not just the anomaly in the n=
umber it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be looked into.
>>=20
>> Sorry to be so negative but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plur=
al) it does bring things to the fore again.
>> Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I think we are talking about different=
 things here. &nbsp;:-) &nbsp;I believe the "Registration" plate you are ref=
erring to is what we call a "License" plate here in the states. &nbsp;This i=
s the plate on the rear (and in some states the front) of the car. &nbsp;</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>The chassis ID plate on a Bugeye is not fastened with=
 rivets, it's fastened with crosshead screws. &nbsp; &nbsp;I'm referring to t=
he ID plate mounted on the chassis rail under the carbs. &nbsp;There is no r=
iveted VIN plate on a Bugeye in the USA. &nbsp;The engine plate was riveted,=
 but makes no difference, because it was not used for registration purposes.=
 &nbsp;Hot tanking the engine block will dissolve the aluminum engine plate.=
<br><br>Sent from my keyboard</div><div><br>On Mar 24, 2015, at 9:23 AM, GUY=
 DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color:#00=
0; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size=
:12pt"><div><span>This is the chassis (VIN) and engine plates&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">I was referring to;</span><span style=3D"font=
-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;not the registration number plate. &nbsp;Having said tha=
t - this would appear to be the one that does fall off most as sometimes the=
 cross head screws will undo with vibration. &nbsp;&lt;smile&gt; &nbsp;The r=
ivets holding the VIN and engine plates don't, they have to be taken off on p=
urpose - but as said, there can be valid reasons for this.</span></div><div s=
tyle=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica,=
 sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal=
; background-color:
 transparent;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Guy R Day</span></div><div><=
span></span></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; background-color: transpare=
nt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div=
 style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div=
 style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-siz=
e: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial=
"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Rick Fisk &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br> <b><span=
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> GUY DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b><span style=3D"font=
-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Bob Spruck &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:raspruck@gma=
il.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Spridget list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Spri=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 13:09<br> <b><=
span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Spridgets] VIN nu=
mber issue<br> </font> </div>
 <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br><div id=3D"yiv2590157070"><div><div>The n=
umber plate on a Bugeye does not fall off on it's own. &nbsp;But they were f=
astened to the car with crosshead screws. &nbsp;To many people that means ta=
ke it off when doing a "restoration". &nbsp;And then for whatever reason the=
 plate does not get reinstalled.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>The=
 fact that the car has been registered in two different states indicates to m=
e that it's probably OK. &nbsp;But check the other locations for numbers. &n=
bsp;:-)<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard</div><div=
><div class=3D"yiv2590157070yqt0743328313" id=3D"yiv2590157070yqtfd13970"><b=
r clear=3D"none">On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY via Spridgets &lt;<a r=
el=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><div c=
lass=3D"yiv2590157070yqt0743328313" id=3D"yiv2590157070yqtfd12009"><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,=
 helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255=
);"><div><span>Should you be wary about anomalies such as this? &nbsp;If you=
 had ever been the owner of a car stolen from you then this would ring very l=
oud warning bells.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font=
-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; b=
ackground-color: transparent;"><span>If the engine is meant to be original t=
hen look for the aluminium engine number plate riveted on a horizontal platf=
orm towards the front of the block. &nbsp;Has that gone missing as well? &nb=
sp;Then you go looking for paint colour oddities and because it is a 50 year=
 old car there is guaranteed to be something.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D=
"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,
 helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">=
<span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fon=
t-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;=
 background-color: transparent;"><span>There can be 1001 good, honest reason=
s for the oddities with this motor but will you be thinking, in the back of y=
our mind, that this was someone's pride and joy before it was taken and chan=
ged into what is seen before me. &nbsp;If you don't get it then some else wi=
ll and does your inner voice say, 'Its a 50 odd year old car, there are boun=
d to be some faults', or does it say, 'This car isn't right, stay well clear=
'.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-fami=
ly: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: tran=
sparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica,
 sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Ident=
ifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45
 year old Sprite has them where they should be. &nbsp;It is not just the ano=
maly in the number it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be lo=
oked into.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; f=
ont-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-col=
or: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; f=
ont-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Sorry to be so nega=
tive but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plural) it does bring thin=
gs to the fore again.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-si=
ze: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; bac=
kground-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div styl=
e=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sa=
ns-serif; font-style: normal; background-color:
 transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font=
-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Guy R Day&nbsp;</span>=
</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial=
, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"=
><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal=
; background-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div=
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetic=
a, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br=
 clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 1=
6px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"=
none"></span></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>  <div style=3D"font-family=
: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family=
: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D=
"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <b><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bob Spruck via Spridgets &lt;<a rel=3D"no=
follow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b=
> Spridget list &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:Spr=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br clear=3D"none"> <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 1:30<br clear=3D=
"none"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Spridgets]=
 VIN number issue<br clear=3D"none"> </font> </div> <div class=3D"yiv2590157=
070y_msg_container"><br clear=3D"none"><div id=3D"yiv2590157070">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div>

        have discovered an apparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The car
        has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been
        registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed on
        both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000
        Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a
        five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four
        digit number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59. <br cl=
ear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way
        of determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?<br c=
lear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?<br clear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        Bob Spruck<br clear=3D"none">
        Sharpsburg, GA <br clear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        '72 Midget<br clear=3D"none">
        '67 Midget Vintage Racer<br clear=3D"none">
        Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye<br clear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
      </font></font>
  </div>

</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div><br clear=3D"none"></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br><br></div> <=
/div> </div>  </div></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: CosmicMag1380 via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:11:03 -0400

--===============0982616857696063684==

--001a113429104073c005120d8b18

On the left side of the firewall (as you look at it from the front of the
car) look closely for a steel tab that originally held the wiring loom in
place. After locating it, start searching for the body number that is
lightly stamped into the metal. IIRC it is above that tab and maybe off to
the left a little. It the car has been painted a time or tow, it may be
difficult to find. All of the Bugeyes had a number there and even though it
does not match the SN of the vehicle, it will be in the ballpark. Most of
them are off by up to 300 or so. If you get the British Heritage
Certificate, I understand that the body number will be on it as well as the
SN.

Kent

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Bob Spruck via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
Kent
1960 Bugeye
1983 Garage full of spridget parts!
2010 Arrow shed full of excess spridget parts!!!

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>On the left side of the firewall (as you look at it f=
rom the front of the car) look closely for a steel tab that originally held=
 the wiring loom in place. After locating it, start searching for the body =
number that is lightly stamped into the metal. IIRC it is above that tab an=
d maybe off to the left a little. It the car has been painted a time or tow=
, it may be difficult to find. All of the Bugeyes had a number there and ev=
en though it does not match the SN of the vehicle, it will be in the ballpa=
rk. Most of them are off by up to 300 or so. If you get the British Heritag=
e Certificate, I understand that the body number will be on it as well as t=
he SN.</div><div><br></div><div>Kent</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Bob Spruck =
via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">

<br>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a><br>
ets/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailma=
n/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature"><div>Kent</div><div>1960 Bugeye</div><div>1983 Garage full of s=
pridget parts!</div><div>2010 Arrow shed full of excess spridget parts!!!</=
div><div>=C2=A0</div></div>
</div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Martyn Ridley via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:24:29 -0400

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Two things come to mind here.  First, check the number with AHCA's 
Sprite registry.  If it turns up you may have a problem.  Second is to 
contact the UK and get a heritage certificate for that number.  Neither 
are definitive but they will start you in the right direction.

According to Eric Dymock's book, the last 1958 car was #8628 or there 
about (they were not always sequential on the line).

Happy Hunting
Martyn

On 3/23/2015 9:30 PM, Bob Spruck via Spridgets wrote:
> On a Bugeye I am interested in, I have discovered an apparent anomaly 
> in the year and VIN. The car has no VIN plate but is considered to be 
> a 1961 Mk1 and has been registered in two states as such. However, the 
> VIN is listed on both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, 
> what, 59,000 Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should 
> have a five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four 
> digit number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59.
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]

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    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
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  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Two things come to mind here.  First,
      check the number with AHCA's Sprite registry.  If it turns up you
      may have a problem.  Second is to contact the UK and get a
      heritage certificate for that number.  Neither are definitive but
      they will start you in the right direction.<br>
      <br>
      According to Eric Dymock's book, the last 1958 car was #8628 or
      there about (they were not always sequential on the line).  <br>
      <br>
      Happy Hunting<br>
      Martyn<br>
      <br>
      On 3/23/2015 9:30 PM, Bob Spruck via Spridgets wrote:<br>
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      <font size="+1"><font face="Arial">On a Bugeye I am interested in,
          I have discovered an apparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The
          car has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1 and
          has been registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is
          listed on both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made,
          what, 59,000 Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61
          should have a five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000.
          If the four digit number is correct, it should be, I expect,
          maybe a '59. <br>
          <br>
          Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other
          way of determining the true VIN number or true year of
          manufacture?<br>
          <br>
          Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?<br>
          <br>
          Bob Spruck<br>
          Sharpsburg, GA <br>
          <br>
          '72 Midget<br>
          '67 Midget Vintage Racer<br>
          Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye<br>
          <br>
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