Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Racer guys Engine help

From: Lester <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 22:44:21 -0500

Ok, latest bit of info..

Installed working non-electronic distributor.  Only change is that the bang
from the backfire is a little weaker.

Removed the airfilter and housing, the front carb is spitting out fuel/air mix
every rotation, only getting backfire every third or fourth time.  Looks like
one of my wildly ported two strokes.

Verified fuel pump is moving fuel.

Lifting up on dashpot causes backfire to be a little less.

Next course of action is to blow through the jet from the needle side to the
bowl to verify that all is clear....

..unless there are other options.

BTW  I pulled needles from another carb set and found some loose jets in a bag
by the distributor...  no two of them are the same.  I may still install what
appears to be a richer one if nothing else works.

Lester

.. and what are the symptoms of a cam that has been installed incorrectly?

No, I haven't done the vacuum testing yet as the car won't idle worth a damn.

On Jul 4, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Jim Seippel wrote:

> The backfiring is likely to be blowing the fuel back into the dashpot
through the balance ports at the bottom of the pistons next to the needles.
> Jim
>
> From: Lester [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 1:35 PM
> To: Jim Seippel; Ron Soave; Bob Gardner; [email-masked] list;
Colin Dodds
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Racer guys Engine help
>
> Didn't think of that but it's easy enough to do..
>
> Just went out to start messing with carbs to find that bell of front carb
has fuel inside it.  Pulled the tops of the bowls and they are both at a
similar and good level (that means I did NOT measure them but they are about
midway up the bowl)
>
> So how does fuel get into the carb bell?  A lot of fuel in the throat not
being sucked into the cylinder?
>
> Needles appear to be stamped wit "1"   Just cleaned and verified drop.
Fired it up and still backfiring through front carb.
>
> Lester
>
>
> On Jul 4, 2014, at 11:08 AM, Jim Seippel wrote:
>
>
> 2 quick ideas  Check to make sure there is no carbon tracking inside the
distributer and no moisture. Also, make sure the carbon brush is still in the
center of the dist cap.
> Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
> Just more info..
>
> I set the distributor per the instructions and rotor is pointing at #1 plug
wire
>
> I actually drove the car and it was ok until it wasn't.. then the backfiring
started
>
> I checked the timing at idle around TDC and at 3000 looking for my 30
degrees.
>
> I did find a loose wire but I am mostly certain that it occurred due to me
trying to advance the timing when it first started backfiring.
>
> I'm going to check today and report back.  if I get no joy I'll search my
parts for a working/fixable distributor.  Something else occurred to me that
may be so simple that it's embarrassing.  And I am certain that this problem
is simple.
> Lester
> ________
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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Lester <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 23:07:31 -0500

Ron, I'll put in one of these other needles and see what happens, wires seem
good and timing light shows good on each one.

Jim, that was the first thing I did, showed 205 on cylinders 1, 2, and 3 but
only 185 on 4.  That was the FIRST thing that I did..For an engine with less
than 20 miles on it that difference bothers me and did from the start.  That
said, it's spitting out the front carb..

Lester

>
> Removed the airfilter and housing, the front carb is spitting out fuel/air
mix every rotation, only getting backfire every third or fourth time.  Looks
like one of my wildly ported two strokes.
> BTW  I pulled needles from another carb set and found some loose jets in a
bag by the distributor...  no two of them are the same.  I may still install
what appears to be a richer one if nothing else works.
------------------------

[email-masked]

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From: Ed Kaler <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 23:14:10 -0500

What wt. oil in dash pots, Lester

/ /
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[email-masked]

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From: Lester <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 09:36:13 -0500

Dave, Ya know, that is my current thinking as well.  I have been eliminating
potential problems and this is a very real possibility..

Ron.. I would hate to ruin a friendship by having someone come to Louisiana in
the Summer on purpose.  ;-)  But thanks for the thought!

Lester

..and all the vacuum fittings were removed from the carbs and intake
manifold..

On Jul 6, 2014, at 7:35 AM, [email-masked] [bugeye] wrote:

>   Lester asked
>
>
>
> " and what are the symptoms of a cam that has been installed incorrectly?
"
>
>
> "  No, I haven't done the vacuum testing yet as the car won't idle worth a
damn. "
>
> Cam must be installed with the timing correctly set.  Your cam timing may be
off a tooth.
>     Symptons will be similar to some of the ones below
> .
> More likely, you have too much cam for the application you are running the
motor
>
> Too much cam means  it is designed to open the the intake valve EARLIER
...(among other things)
>
>    This results in requiring a very high idle ............
>
>      symptoms are :
>
>               1)   backfiring through carbs....
>               2)    poor or NO slow idle
>               3)    little or no vacuum at slow rpm's
>
> a quick check with a vacuum gauge would identify this very easily
------------------------

[email-masked]

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From: Lester <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:30:22 -0500

Very underwhelmed WST, VERY!

Just tried again and I'll list stuff so new eyes can see what I'm missing.

1275 bored to 1380 cc

FO  1-3-4-2

#1 cyl closest to radiator

Set engine to TDC.  This was done by removing valve cover  and rotating engine
until both rocker arms were NOT moving and had some slight play.

This lines up with pointer that has been installed and white outlined mark on
balancer.  Seen from passengers side looking at balancer.  There are 3 marks
father along clockwise on balancer.

Install 123 distributor per manufacturers directions.  Verify that distributor
rotor is pointing at # 1 spark plug lead.  Turn distributor until I get some
degree of running.  Get spitting back through carb.

I have not tried to rev it up to see if it will run better, I need a second
person here for that and it doesn't happen very often.

Get tired and give up with temps in Mid- 90s

Send out another email.

At this point I am considering installing my personally built cheater motor (
Early 1098 crank and 1098 pistons in 948 block with an Aussie spec (TM) cam).

Lester

On Jul 6, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Wm Severin Thompson wrote:

> Lester, I've been in the weeds in this one, but if I recall, you were
underwhelmed by the performance of a semi-race motor? My first thought was
improper cam timing during assembly.
>
> WST
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 5, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Lester <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 09:54:23 -0700

Here is a google search for carb spitting back:

https://www.google.com/#q=1275+spridget+spitting+back+through+carburettor

(make no assumptions; check or replace distributor condenser) Bill in Oregon

===================================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Spridgets [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Lester
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 9:30 AM
To: [email-masked] list; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Racer guys Engine help

1275 bored to 1380 cc

FO  1-3-4-2

Set engine to TDC.  This was done by removing valve cover  and rotating
engine

This lines up with pointer that has been installed and white outlined mark
on

Install 123 distributor per manufacturers directions.  Verify that
distributor

Send out another email.

At this point I am considering installing my personally built cheater motor
(

Early 1098 crank and 1098 pistons in 948 block with an Aussie spec (TM)
cam).

Lester

>> Ron, I'll put in one of these other needles and see what happens, wires

seem

>> Jim, that was the first thing I did, showed 205 on cylinders 1, 2, and 3

but

>> only 185 on 4.  That was the FIRST thing that I did..For an engine with

less

>> than 20 miles on it that difference bothers me and did from the start.

That

>>> On Jul 5, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Lester [email-masked] [bugeye]

wrote:

>>> Installed working non-electronic distributor.  Only change is that the

bang

>>> Removed the airfilter and housing, the front carb is spitting out

fuel/air

>> mix every rotation, only getting backfire every third or fourth time.

Looks

>>> Next course of action is to blow through the jet from the needle side to

the

>>> BTW  I pulled needles from another carb set and found some loose jets in

a

>> bag by the distributor...  no two of them are the same.  I may still

install

>>> .. and what are the symptoms of a cam that has been installed

incorrectly?

>>> No, I haven't done the vacuum testing yet as the car won't idle worth a

>> damn.

------------------------

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
------------------------

[email-masked]

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From: Lester <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:57:37 -0500

Bill,

the distributor is an electronic 123 unit.  I tried in a non- electronic unit
with the same results which to me eliminated the ignition as the source of the
problem.

Lester

------------------------

[email-masked]

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From: Martyn Ridley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:30:48 -0400

For what its worth I would put my 2 cents on the carb side.  First check 
for air leaks and then needles, H4 - AAB,AM,BG, HS2 - M.  Your 
description sounds like wildly out of balance carbs to me.

Also, as this is a race engine, it won't run worth a damn below 1500rpm.

Happy hunting, keep us informed,
Martyn

On 7/12/2014 12:57 PM, Lester wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:49:00 -0700

I had a racing engine once that came on at 4000rpm and peaked out at
7500(carb limited.) Depends on the cam. Bill in Oregon
===========================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Spridgets [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Martyn Ridley
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 12:31 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Racer guys Engine help

Happy hunting, keep us informed,
Martyn
===========================================================
>> (make no assumptions; check or replace distributor condenser) Bill in
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
------------------------

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:40:16 -0700

Sync dual SU Volvo carbs (prior to 1970's) ...Bill in Oregon

1.  warm up engine

2.  Screw up mixture nuts all the way and then down 2 turns.

      up = leaner, down = richer. (this is the nut at the bottom of the
carb)

3.  loosen up throttle shaft couplings

4.  adjust idles so carb air intake is the same, engine running (use
Unisync)

5.  run adjuster nut down until smooth running; or up until rough running
and then back down

6.  adjust idles so they are the same(repeat back and forth steps 4 thru 6)

       Stall indicates other carb is too lean when you push up the piston
pin at the side of the carb (so you'd turn down on its richness adjustment
screw)

7.  do a final idle check on both carbs using Unisync.

8.  tighten nuts on throttle shafts

If you need to avoid blocking holes on face of carb with Unisync base, cut
off both ends of a can. I use and old STP Gas Treatment can (8 oz.) or a
Hunt's Tomato Paste can (6 oz.) Rubber tape around the card end can prevent
air leakage there if that appears to be a problem. 
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-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Soave [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 6:28 PM
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Bugeye/Frogeye Club..... Racer guys Engine help

Lester (and all),

Another setup tip for the carbs - remove the piston and using the back end
of a caliper or similar, lower the jets on each carb so they are .060 below
flush with the bridge. This takes variability out of the initial setup and
gives you a much more accurate baseline than counting flats. 

Ron Soave
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[email-masked]