Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Rearden metal

From: "Dean Hedin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:41:24 -0500

Right, it's as strong as many steels but easy to machine.
The only problem is it is not recommended for welding.
I'm OK with that.  

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Mark Haynes
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:51 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Rearden metal

Not to mention the yield strength is almost double that of 6061 (~55ksi vs
~30ksi) That's why my adjustable radius rods are made from it!

Mark Haynes
It only goes one way-Pay it Forward
HAN6L12977
AN5L8016
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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "Dean Hedin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:45:56 -0500

Yeah, I know, you want to know how those slots coming along...

http://tinyurl.com/cfucpv6

http://tinyurl.com/c5ozz6g

I must confess (and as you might have imagined) this has been an obsession
in the making for many years.

The big gear reduced motor thingy was purchased from surplus distributor
Herbach and Raedman, back around 2002.  I think it cost about $60.  

A few years went by and I finally machined the elements needed to mount it
to the lathe milling support and to create the arbor to hold the big blade
(which I did not yet have!)

Everything sort of came together when I was able to acquire the coveted "big
saw blade" for $15 on ebay a few weeks ago.  That blade new goes for $145
from Mcmaster.com.  I could never justify that price!

So what's going to happen?  Well, in the headstock of the lathe is a big
gear with a bunch of holes around its perimeter. These are marked off for
the four 90 degree positions of the slot cuts. They lock the chuck into each
position.

I then crank down on the top handle and then move the saw across the
cylinder with the other cross feed crank. I think it's going to take hours
and hours to cut these slots.  It would be nice to power feed, but I can't
power feed if I have the chuck locked into position!

Why am I doing two of these?  Some lucky ebay winner gets the other rotor!
Helps me pay for my psychologist!
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From: "Dean Hedin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:22:10 -0500

Everything went OK.  One down and seven to go.
Looks like each slot is going to take about 1 1/2 hours.

http://tinyurl.com/bp6ub2e
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[email-masked]

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From: Bob Kitterer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 17:24:59 -0800

What material are you going to use for the vanes?

Bob and Dolores

1960 Austin Healey Sprite (Mk IV in disguise)
1966 Austin Healey Sprite Mk III (Trevor) - still in boxes

On Dec 18, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Dean Hedin wrote:

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From: "Dean Hedin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 23:42:47 -0500

Torlon 4435

You can read about it here.
http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/torlon-vane-material.htm

I actually scanned that brochure and sent it that website.
The article refers to Torlon 7130, but that has been superseded 
by 4435.  You can get it from Drake Plastics.

You need a 12"x4"x.187" sheet for a Sprite Judson. It's about $130. 
It will most likely need to be thickness planned slightly to fit the slots. 

So don't make a mistake cutting it!
The old adage, "Cut once measure twice" definitely applies here.

There is another rocket science material that I just read about in Machine
Design magazine..  
http://www.metcar.com/index.html

Apparently they have some sort of carbon graphite designed for sliding vane
applications.  But I don't know how much it cost, where to get it, or even
know what its properties are.  Nor have I heard of any case studies of its
use.  

BTW, These are the true "Rearden Metals" of this day and age.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Bob Kitterer
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:25 PM
To: Spridgets
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] How it's made. Episode 498 Judson Rotor.

[email-masked]

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From: derf <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:47:41 -0600

When I had my Judson I contemplated coating the inside surface with Teflon
or Ceramic or something to help with friction.
Never got around to doing it, though.
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[email-masked]

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 03:34:21 -0800

http://studentsforliberty.org/news/real-life-rearden-metal/

================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Dean Hedin
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:43 PM
To: 'Bob Kitterer'; 'Spridgets'
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] How it's made. Episode 498 Judson Rotor.

Torlon 4435

. . . . 

[email-masked]

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From: Tim Collins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 11:09:27 -0500

Dean,
Tell us why the Judson rotor uses tangentially oriented vanes while 
the rotor shown in the brochure uses radial vanes?

Tim Collins
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[email-masked]

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From: Rick Fisk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 11:39:26 -0500

What brochure?  My Sprite Judson was exactly like Dean's.  Every Judson rotor
I've ever seen is like Dean's.  My VW Judson also had tangental vanes.  ???

Rick

Sent from my keyboard

On Dec 20, 2012, at 11:09 AM, Tim Collins <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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From: Tim Collins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 11:45:54 -0500

This brochure that Dean referenced 
http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/torlon-vane-material.htm has vanes 
that radiate outward from the axis of rotation. Dean's rotor has 
vanes that are parallel to the axis of rotation - I think I'm saying 
that correctly.

Tim Collins
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[email-masked]

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From: Rick Fisk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:00:25 -0500

Ah, now I get it.  The rotor in the brochure is not a Judson.

Judson probably used the tangental orientation in an attempt to reduce vane
wear.  Being an automotive application the Judson probably runs hotter than
the compressor in the brochure.  Just my guess.

BTW, I sold my Judsons several years ago.  Tripled my investment and used the
money to buy an Ultralight.  :-)

Rick

Sent from my keyboard

> This brochure that Dean referenced
http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/torlon-vane-material.htm has vanes that
radiate outward from the axis of rotation. Dean's rotor has vanes that are
parallel to the axis of rotation - I think I'm saying that correctly.
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[email-masked]

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From: "Dean Hedin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 16:23:35 -0500

Having the vanes mounted sideways (like Judson) reduces the centrifugal
force on the tips contacting the bore by
reditributing part of this force to the side of the vane which has more
surface area.

The vane pump in the article is something used in the oil & gas well
industry.  Hard to tell how big it is, but it probably spins slow
compared to the Judson.  It could be that Judson had a patent on that
arrangement but I am doubtful of this. 
It could also be that the designer of that oil well gas pump does not know
about the advantage of the,
dare I say,  "Swastika" looking arrangement. 

The thing is - this "side wear" is exactly why I am making a new rotor.
All the used rotors I have seen have the slots worn out like this.
The hope is that the hard 7075 material, combined with the more modern vane
material will make this issue go away, 
or at least be greatly reduced. 

When the rotors wear out like this the unit becomes noisy, puts out less
pressure,  and any new vanes installed wear out quickly.   

BTW, I done did it... at least one rotor is almost completed.

http://tinyurl.com/cyy5736

I still can't believe I pulled this off.  It took a long time to cut those
dang slots. 1.5 hours each.

From: Tim Collins [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 11:09 AM
To: Dean Hedin; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] How it's made. Episode 498 Judson Rotor.

Dean,
Tell us why the Judson rotor uses tangentially oriented vanes while the
rotor shown in the brochure uses radial vanes?

Tim Collins

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]
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