Subject: Re: [Mgs] B/GT gearbox mystery

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 09:40:13 +0200

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Maybe a different approach:

Are the clutch hydraulics still in good order?

A clutch which does not operate well, does not =E2=80=9Callow=E2=80=9D =
the gearbox shift in good order.=20

Check the level and when good, check the movement of the slave cylinder =
when fully operating the clutch pedal.

Did you notice a change in the ease of operation of the clutch pedal?

If so, this indicates clutch hydraulics issues=E2=80=A6

=20

Hans

Ex 71 BGT owner

=20

=20

Van: Mgs <[email-masked]> Namens S.Carr
Verzonden: dinsdag 24 september 2024 00:09
Aan: [email-masked]
Onderwerp: [Mgs] B/GT gearbox mystery

=20

My =E2=80=9971 B/GT has suddenly developed a gearbox =
problem=E2=80=94intermittently it will not go into any gear, whether the =
engine is running or not.  A few minutes later it will work normally, =
then later refuse to shift again.  Any idea where we should look for the =
cause?  We assume the side plate will have to come off.  We need to fix =
the problem, as I want to put the car up for sale before winter sets =
in----

Sarah Carr

=E2=80=9971 B/GT in PA

=20

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986>  for =
Windows

=20

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class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Maybe a different =
approach:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Are the clutch hydraulics still in =
good order?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>A clutch which does not operate =
well, does not =E2=80=9Callow=E2=80=9D the gearbox shift in good order. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Check the level and when good, =
check the movement of the slave cylinder when fully operating the clutch =
pedal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Did you notice a change in the ease =
of operation of the clutch pedal?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If so, this =
indicates clutch hydraulics issues=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hans<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Ex 71 BGT =
owner<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Van:</b> Mgs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>Namens =
</b>S.Carr<br><b>Verzonden:</b> dinsdag 24 september 2024 =
00:09<br><b>Aan:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> [Mgs] B/GT =
gearbox mystery<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3DDefaultFontHxMailStyle><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>My =E2=80=9971 B/GT has suddenly developed a =
gearbox problem=E2=80=94intermittently it will not go into =
</span></span><span class=3DDefaultFontHxMailStyle><u><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>any</span></u></span><span =
class=3DDefaultFontHxMailStyle><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> gear, whether the engine is running or =
not.&nbsp; A few minutes later it will work normally, then later refuse =
to shift again.&nbsp; Any idea where we should look for the cause?&nbsp; =
We assume the side plate will have to come off.&nbsp; We need to fix the =
problem, as I want to put the car up for sale before winter sets =
in----<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3DDefaultFontHxMailStyle><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Sarah Carr<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DDefaultFontHxMailStyle><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>=E2=80=9971 B/GT in =
PA<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3DDefaultFontHxMailStyle><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent from <a =
href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">Mail</a> for =
Windows</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3DDefaultFontHxMailStyle><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p></div></bod=
y></html>
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_______________________________________________

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: dave northrup <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 14:37:08 +0000

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Try adjusting the pushrods,  making them longer.  I know it sounds crazy,  =
but i had a similar problem and that fixed it.   People on this list even s=
aid don't do it,  but i did it anyway.   Now it works

-------- Original message --------
From: [email-masked]
Date: 10/7/24 3:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: "'S.Carr'" <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Mgs] B/GT gearbox mystery

Maybe a different approach:
Are the clutch hydraulics still in good order?
A clutch which does not operate well, does not =93allow=94 the gearbox shif=
t in good order.
Check the level and when good, check the movement of the slave cylinder whe=
n fully operating the clutch pedal.
Did you notice a change in the ease of operation of the clutch pedal?
If so, this indicates clutch hydraulics issues=85

Hans
Ex 71 BGT owner

My =9271 B/GT has suddenly developed a gearbox problem=97intermittently it =
will not go into any gear, whether the engine is running or not.  A few min=
utes later it will work normally, then later refuse to shift again.  Any id=
ea where we should look for the cause?  We assume the side plate will have =
to come off.  We need to fix the problem, as I want to put the car up for s=
ale before winter sets in----
Sarah Carr
=9271 B/GT in PA

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986> for Window=
s

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Try adjusting the pushrods,&nbsp; making them longer.&nbsp; I know it sound=
s crazy,&nbsp; but i had a similar problem and that fixed it.&nbsp; &nbsp;P=
eople on this list even said don't do it,&nbsp; but i did it anyway.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Now it works
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: [email-masked] </div>
<div>Date: 10/7/24 3:19 AM (GMT-06:00) </div>
<div>To: &quot;'S.Carr'&quot; &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, [email-masked]=
 </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [Mgs] B/GT gearbox mystery </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Maybe a different approach:</span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Are the clutch hydraulics still in =
good order?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">A clutch which does not operate wel=
l, does not =93allow=94 the gearbox shift in good order.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Check the level and when good, chec=
k the movement of the slave cylinder when fully operating the clutch pedal.=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Did you notice a change in the ease=
 of operation of the clutch pedal?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">If so, this indicates clutch hydrau=
lics issues=85</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Hans</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Ex 71 BGT owner</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c=
m 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>Van:</b> Mgs &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <=
b>Namens </b>S.Carr<br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> dinsdag 24 september 2024 00:09<br>
<b>Aan:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> [Mgs] B/GT gearbox mystery</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"DefaultFontHxMailStyle"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">My =9271 B/GT has suddenly developed a g=
earbox problem=97intermittently it will not go into
</span></span><span class=3D"DefaultFontHxMailStyle"><u><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">any</span></u></span><span class=3D"DefaultFon=
tHxMailStyle"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"> gear, whethe=
r the engine is running or not.&nbsp; A few minutes
 later it will work normally, then later refuse to shift again.&nbsp; Any i=
dea where we should look for the cause?&nbsp; We assume the side plate will=
 have to come off.&nbsp; We need to fix the problem, as I want to put the c=
ar up for sale before winter sets in----</span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"DefaultFontHxMailStyle"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Sarah Carr</span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"DefaultFontHxMailStyle"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=9271 B/GT in PA</span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"DefaultFontHxMailStyle"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent from <a href=3D"https://go=
.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">
Mail</a> for Windows</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"DefaultFontHxMailStyle"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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[email-masked]

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From: Paul Hunt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 16:40:09 +0100

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If you mean the clutch pushrods, if that appeared to fix it then 
something else was wrong that was fixed in the process.

All the slave pushrod does is position the slave piston in the slave 
cylinder.  The MGB system is self-adjusting which means that when you 
release the clutch pedal the clutch cover springs push the release ring 
back, which pushes the release bearing back, which pushes the release 
arm back, which pushes the slave push-rod and piston back, which pushes 
fluid back into the master reservoir.  The length of the slave push-rod 
doesn't directly affect that.  If it's too long it can bottom the piston 
in the cylinder and prevent the clutch from being fully engaged, which 
can cause clutch slip.  If it's too short fluid displacement from the 
master can push the piston out of the end of the cylinder.

If the master push-rod is shorter than it should be then the pedal 
footpad is lower than it should be, it doesn't travel as far as it 
should before reaching the floor and you get a low biting point.  That 
can cause grinding when selecting reverse, which was covered way back, 
and there has been no response to that or any of the suggestions.  If 
that push-rod is lengthened the pedal pad sits higher and can travel 
further, which can push the pressure seal to the end of the cylinder and 
damage it.

PaulH.

On 07/10/2024 15:37, dave northrup wrote:
> Try adjusting the pushrods,  making them longer.  I know it sounds 
> crazy,  but i had a similar problem and that fixed it.   People on 
> this list even said don't do it,  but i did it anyway.   Now it works
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    <p>If you mean the clutch pushrods, if that appeared to fix it then
      something else was wrong that was fixed in the process.</p>
    <p>All the slave pushrod does is position the slave piston in the
      slave cylinder.  The MGB system is self-adjusting which means that
      when you release the clutch pedal the clutch cover springs push
      the release ring back, which pushes the release bearing back,
      which pushes the release arm back, which pushes the slave push-rod
      and piston back, which pushes fluid back into the master
      reservoir.  The length of the slave push-rod doesn't directly
      affect that.  If it's too long it can bottom the piston in the
      cylinder and prevent the clutch from being fully engaged, which
      can cause clutch slip.  If it's too short fluid displacement from
      the master can push the piston out of the end of the cylinder.<br>
    </p>
    <p>If the master push-rod is shorter than it should be then the
      pedal footpad is lower than it should be, it doesn't travel as far
      as it should before reaching the floor and you get a low biting
      point.  That can cause grinding when selecting reverse, which was
      covered way back, and there has been no response to that or any of
      the suggestions.  If that push-rod is lengthened the pedal pad
      sits higher and can travel further, which can push the pressure
      seal to the end of the cylinder and damage it.<br>
    </p>
    <p>PaulH.<br>
    </p>
    On 07/10/2024 15:37, dave northrup wrote:<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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      Try adjusting the pushrods,  making them longer.  I know it sounds
      crazy,  but i had a similar problem and that fixed it.   People on
      this list even said don't do it,  but i did it anyway.   Now it
      works</blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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From: Larry Colen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 10:05:21 -0700

> On Oct 7, 2024, at 7:37 AM, dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Try adjusting the pushrods,  making them longer.  I know it sounds crazy,  but i had a similar problem and that fixed it.   People on this list even said don't do it,  but i did it anyway.   Now it works

This is the difference between a clever idea and a good idea.  When I bought my Sprite in 1980, the throw out bearing was dead.  I got it home, replaced the throw out and the clutch, drove it for about a month and the throw out had worn out again.

The DPO had welded an extension to the rod, which gave it a bit more throw, but kept the throw out bearing in contact with the clutch, wearing the carbon disk entirely away in just a short while.

Now that you can get throw outs with real bearings, rather than the carbon disk, they will likely last a bit longer, but those bearings aren't meant for constant use.

So, yeah, there's a good reason why people say don't do that.  I've got the toothmarks on my butt from someone implementing that very "solution".

> A clutch which does not operate well, does not “allow” the gearbox shift in good order.
> Check the level and when good, check the movement of the slave cylinder when fully operating the clutch pedal.
> If so, this indicates clutch hydraulics issues…
>  
> Hans
> Ex 71 BGT owner
>  
>  
> My ’71 B/GT has suddenly developed a gearbox problem—intermittently it will not go into any gear, whether the engine is running or not.  A few minutes later it will work normally, then later refuse to shift again.  Any idea where we should look for the cause?  We assume the side plate will have to come off.  We need to fix the problem, as I want to put the car up for sale before winter sets in----
> Sarah Carr
> ’71 B/GT in PA
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

--
Larry Colen
[email-masked]  sent from ret13est

[email-masked]
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

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From: Paul Hunt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2024 08:18:02 +0100

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Exactly.  The only pressure of the release bearing on the cover plate 
should be from the light spring that is inside the slave cylinder.  When 
released you should be able to push the piston further back into the 
cylinder with the release arm, which displaces fluid into the master 
(watch it doesn't overflow).  When you release it again it should slowly 
come back out to put the release bearing back in contact with the cover 
plate.

That's what makes it self-adjusting - the piston moves out bit by as the 
release bearing and friction plate wear down, then is put back in again 
when you replace them.

It's exactly the same as calipers and pads.  Has anyone ever suggested 
you change the length of the pistons if you have a brake fault?  If they 
are too long you wouldn't be able to get the caliper with new pads over 
a new disk.  If they are too short you can push the seals past the end 
of the cylinders.

PaulH.

> The DPO had welded an extension to the rod, which gave it a bit more throw, but kept the throw out bearing in contact with the clutch, wearing the carbon disk entirely away in just a short while.
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    <p>Exactly.  The only pressure of the release bearing on the cover
      plate should be from the light spring that is inside the slave
      cylinder.  When released you should be able to push the piston
      further back into the cylinder with the release arm, which
      displaces fluid into the master (watch it doesn't overflow).  When
      you release it again it should slowly come back out to put the
      release bearing back in contact with the cover plate.</p>
    <p>That's what makes it self-adjusting - the piston moves out bit by
      as the release bearing and friction plate wear down, then is put
      back in again when you replace them.  </p>
    <p>It's exactly the same as calipers and pads.  Has anyone ever
      suggested you change the length of the pistons if you have a brake
      fault?  If they are too long you wouldn't be able to get the
      caliper with new pads over a new disk.  If they are too short you
      can push the seals past the end of the cylinders.<br>
    </p>
    <p>PaulH.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/10/2024 18:05, Larry Colen wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]"><span
      style="white-space: pre-wrap">
</span>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The DPO had welded an extension to the rod, which gave it a bit more throw, but kept the throw out bearing in contact with the clutch, wearing the carbon disk entirely away in just a short while.
</pre>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
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