Subject: Re: [Mgs] early 5 main mgb engine/starter

From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2024 18:25:21 -0400

--===============3980117540272541783==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-3DE73AD9-C7AD-4BF7-BB5F-5D26C43CF64C
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dave,
	There are two types of starters that could be on your engine. =20
	Early, like those on MGA, were Bendix-type, in which the inertia of=
 the pinion caused it to unwind on starter motor shaft. It unwound on the co=
arse threads until the pinion meshed with teeth on the ring gear, then it st=
opped unwinding and the starter turned Bendix gear and the ring gear to star=
t the engine.
	Later starters were called =E2=80=98pre-engaged=E2=80=99. In these,=
 power from starter switch moved the electromagnet in the starter solenoid w=
hich has a lever that moves the pinion into engagement with the ring gear, t=
hen the solenoid powers the starter, which turns the gear and ring gear.
	If your starter is a cylinder, only a cylinder, like the cylinder-s=
hape of the dynamo, it is Bendix type. If it has not been used in 18 months,=
 it is possible that the Bendix gear is hanging on a tiny bit of rust on the=
 coarse threads, so the Bendix is not turning the ring gear.   Disassemble, c=
lean the threads, use a dry lubricant like teflon or graphite, and it should=
 work as new.=20
	If it is the later type, which you can identify by a smaller cylind=
er mounted on the starter, in line with its shaft, yours is pre-engaged.  Yo=
u say the starter spins, so it is probably OK, the problem being non-engagem=
ent.  I would check again for free movement of the pinion. I=E2=80=99ve neve=
r faced this with a pre-engaged, but I don=E2=80=99t rule that out.
Bob

> On Jun 8, 2024, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Early 5 main mgb engine in a 58 mga.  Received in kit form; been working o=
n this thing for 18 months.=20
> =20
> I think the conclusion is pretty obvious; just looking for confirmation.
> =20
> The starter would turn the engine over, then just spin.  Wait until it sto=
ps, try again.  Usually after a few tries the engine would start.
> =20
> Now it just spins.  Was that a sign that the starter was going?  Is it now=
 gone?  And doesn=E2=80=99t activate the gear so the engine doesn=E2=80=99t t=
urn over?
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-3DE73AD9-C7AD-4BF7-BB5F-5D26C43CF64C
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dav=
e,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span>There are two types of starters that could be on your engine=
. &nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span>Early, like those on MGA, were Bendix-type, in which=
 the inertia of the pinion caused it to unwind on starter motor shaft. It un=
wound on the coarse threads until the pinion meshed with teeth on the ring g=
ear, then it stopped unwinding and the starter turned Bendix gear and the ri=
ng gear to start the engine.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Later starters were called =E2=
=80=98pre-engaged=E2=80=99. In these, power from starter switch moved the el=
ectromagnet in the starter solenoid which has a lever that moves the pinion i=
nto engagement with the ring gear, then the solenoid powers the starter, whi=
ch turns the gear and ring gear.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>If your starter is a cylinde=
r, only a cylinder, like the cylinder-shape of the dynamo, it is Bendix type=
. If it has not been used in 18 months, it is possible that the Bendix gear i=
s hanging on a tiny bit of rust on the coarse threads, so the Bendix is not t=
urning the ring gear. &nbsp; Disassemble, clean the threads, use a dry lubri=
cant like teflon or graphite, and it should work as new.&nbsp;</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan>If it is the later type, which you can identify by a smaller cylinder mo=
unted on the starter, in line with its shaft, yours is pre-engaged. &nbsp;Yo=
u say the starter spins, so it is probably OK, the problem being non-engagem=
ent. &nbsp;I would check again for free movement of the pinion. I=E2=80=99ve=
 never faced this with a pre-engaged, but I don=E2=80=99t rule that out.</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jun 8, 2024, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, dave northrup &=
lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">=

<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style>@font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math"; }
@font-face { font-family: Calibri; }
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-si=
ze: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; }
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink { color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underli=
ne; }
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decora=
tion: underline; }
span.EmailStyle17 { font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; }
.MsoChpDefault { font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; }
@page WordSection1 { size: 8.5in 11in; margin: 1in; }
div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->

<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Early 5 main mgb engine in a 58 mga.&nbsp; Received i=
n kit form; been working on this thing for 18 months.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the conclusion is pretty obvious; just lookin=
g for confirmation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The starter would turn the engine over, then just spi=
n.&nbsp; Wait until it stops, try again.&nbsp; Usually after a few tries the=
 engine would start.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Now it just spins.&nbsp; Was that a sign that the sta=
rter was going?&nbsp; Is it now gone?&nbsp; And doesn=E2=80=99t activate the=
 gear so the engine doesn=E2=80=99t turn over?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>

<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/do=
nate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><br><=
span></span><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://auto=
x.team.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe: http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]</span><br></div></blockquote=
></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-3DE73AD9-C7AD-4BF7-BB5F-5D26C43CF64C--

--===============3980117540272541783==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

--===============3980117540272541783==--

---

From: Larry Colen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2024 16:14:32 -0700

There's always "percussive" maintenance.  :-)

It sounds like the inny-outie thingy-bobber is getting stuck.  Maybe take it out, and if the little gearjobber isn't moving freely, clean and lube it.  On the other hand if the motor isn't spinning fast enough it might not be throwing the gearjobber out far enough to engage with the flywheel.

On second thought, this is probably too technical, never mind me, and pay attention to the guys that actually know what they're talking about.

> On Jun 8, 2024, at 3:25 PM, Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 	There are two types of starters that could be on your engine.  
> 	Early, like those on MGA, were Bendix-type, in which the inertia of the pinion caused it to unwind on starter motor shaft. It unwound on the coarse threads until the pinion meshed with teeth on the ring gear, then it stopped unwinding and the starter turned Bendix gear and the ring gear to start the engine.
> 	Later starters were called ‘pre-engaged’. In these, power from starter switch moved the electromagnet in the starter solenoid which has a lever that moves the pinion into engagement with the ring gear, then the solenoid powers the starter, which turns the gear and ring gear.
> 	If your starter is a cylinder, only a cylinder, like the cylinder-shape of the dynamo, it is Bendix type. If it has not been used in 18 months, it is possible that the Bendix gear is hanging on a tiny bit of rust on the coarse threads, so the Bendix is not turning the ring gear.   Disassemble, clean the threads, use a dry lubricant like teflon or graphite, and it should work as new. 
> 	If it is the later type, which you can identify by a smaller cylinder mounted on the starter, in line with its shaft, yours is pre-engaged.  You say the starter spins, so it is probably OK, the problem being non-engagement.  I would check again for free movement of the pinion. I’ve never faced this with a pre-engaged, but I don’t rule that out.
> Bob
> 
> 
>> On Jun 8, 2024, at 1:33 PM, dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Early 5 main mgb engine in a 58 mga.  Received in kit form; been working on this thing for 18 months. 
>>  
>> The starter would turn the engine over, then just spin.  Wait until it stops, try again.  Usually after a few tries the engine would start.
>>  
>> Now it just spins.  Was that a sign that the starter was going?  Is it now gone?  And doesn’t activate the gear so the engine doesn’t turn over?
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

--
Larry Colen
[email-masked].   sent from Mirkwood

[email-masked]