Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3

From: Eric Russell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:48 -0400

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There should be a small amount of free play at the pushrod to master
cylinder piston (~ 1/16" which translates to ~ 3/8" at the pedal). This
ensures the piston is able to fully return to the off position.

Check the pushrod & clevis pin at the slave cylinder. Since they are
exposed to the elements they will often wear - the hole in the pushrod
becoming elongated & the clevis pin looking more like a mini crankshaft.
All that lost motion means the clutch doesn't operate through a full
stroke.

EjR

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:10=E2=80=AFPM <[email-masked]> wrote:

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>    1. 58 mga (dave northrup)
>    2. Re: 58 mga (Paul Hunt)
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 23:49:07 +0000
> From: dave northrup <[email-masked]>
> To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: [Mgs] 58 mga
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
> I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my
> ownership.
>
> I noticed today as I'm attempting to get the car running and driving for
> the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that goes into
> the master.
>
> It is threaded about as far out as it can go.
>
> It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually no
> play, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will move
> inside the master.  It also occurred to me that that might be a bad idea.
> Can/should I do that?  or will it push too far inside the master and caus=
e
> additional problems?  It isn't more than about ?" of play or so
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:18:53 +0000
> From: Paul Hunt <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] 58 mga
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed"
>
> What's the biting point like?? If that's fine then leave it alone.
>
> I don't know the MGA master but on the MGB the master piston comes back
> to the circlip in the bore and positions the resting position of the
> pedal, and that determines how much 'throw' you have at the pedal, the
> slave cylinder and hence the release bearing.? Slop in the linkage at
> the pedal puts it closer to the floor and results in less slave piston
> movement and hence a lower biting point.? The same is not true of the
> linkage at the clutch end as a spring inside the slave cylinder pushes
> the piston out to take up all the play at that end, and more importantly
> to compensate for the graphite release bearing wearing down.? The more
> that wears the further the piston moves out, drawing fluid down from the
> master reservoir, so you continue to get a full stroke of the release
> arm.? That makes the MGB clutch system self-adjusting, and there is no
> scope for threaded adjustment anywhere in the system.? But as I say that
> is the MGB not the MGA.
>
> PaulH.
>
> On 29/10/2023 23:49, dave northrup wrote:
> >
> > I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my
> > ownership.
> >
> > I noticed today as I?m attempting to get the car running and driving
> > for the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that
> > goes into the master.
> >
> > It is threaded about as far out as it can go.
> >
> > It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually
> > no play, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will
> > move inside the master.? It also occurred to me that that might be a
> > bad idea. Can/should I do that?? or will it push too far inside the
> > master and cause additional problems?? It isn?t more than about ?? of
> > play or so
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > [email-masked]
> > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> >
> > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e
> >
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
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> End of Mgs Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">The=
re should be a small amount of free play at the pushrod to master cylinder =
piston (~ 1/16&quot; which translates to ~ 3/8&quot; at the pedal). This en=
sures the piston is able to fully return to the off position.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">Check the pushrod &amp; clevis=
 pin at the slave cylinder. Since they are exposed to the elements they wil=
l often wear - the hole in the pushrod becoming elongated &amp; the clevis =
pin looking more like a mini crankshaft. All that lost motion means the clu=
tch doesn&#39;t operate through a full stroke.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-size:large">EjR=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:10=E2=
=80=AFPM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mgs-request@auto=
x.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">Send Mgs mailing list submissions to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listin=
fo/mgs" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
listinfo/mgs</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body &#39;help&#39; to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
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<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of Mgs digest...&quot;<br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
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<br>
Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01. 58 mga (dave northrup)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: 58 mga (Paul Hunt)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 23:49:07 +0000<br>
From: dave northrup &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox=
.team.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [Mgs] 58 mga<br>
com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
<br>
<br>
I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my owners=
hip.<br>
<br>
I noticed today as I&#39;m attempting to get the car running and driving fo=
r the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that goes into=
 the master.<br>
<br>
It is threaded about as far out as it can go.<br>
<br>
It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually no p=
lay, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will move inside=
 the master.=C2=A0 It also occurred to me that that might be a bad idea. Ca=
n/should I do that?=C2=A0 or will it push too far inside the master and cau=
se additional problems?=C2=A0 It isn&#39;t more than about ?&quot; of play =
or so<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
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.htm</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:18:53 +0000<br>
From: Paul Hunt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked].=
net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] 58 mga<br>
l.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;<br>
d&quot;<br>
<br>
What&#39;s the biting point like?? If that&#39;s fine then leave it alone.<=
br>
<br>
I don&#39;t know the MGA master but on the MGB the master piston comes back=
 <br>
to the circlip in the bore and positions the resting position of the <br>
pedal, and that determines how much &#39;throw&#39; you have at the pedal, =
the <br>
slave cylinder and hence the release bearing.? Slop in the linkage at <br>
the pedal puts it closer to the floor and results in less slave piston <br>
movement and hence a lower biting point.? The same is not true of the <br>
linkage at the clutch end as a spring inside the slave cylinder pushes <br>
the piston out to take up all the play at that end, and more importantly <b=
r>
to compensate for the graphite release bearing wearing down.? The more <br>
that wears the further the piston moves out, drawing fluid down from the <b=
r>
master reservoir, so you continue to get a full stroke of the release <br>
arm.? That makes the MGB clutch system self-adjusting, and there is no <br>
scope for threaded adjustment anywhere in the system.? But as I say that <b=
r>
is the MGB not the MGA.<br>
<br>
PaulH.<br>
<br>
On 29/10/2023 23:49, dave northrup wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my <=
br>
&gt; ownership.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I noticed today as I?m attempting to get the car running and driving <=
br>
&gt; for the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that <b=
r>
&gt; goes into the master.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is threaded about as far out as it can go.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually=
 <br>
&gt; no play, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will <b=
r>
&gt; move inside the master.? It also occurred to me that that might be a <=
br>
&gt; bad idea. Can/should I do that?? or will it push too far inside the <b=
r>
&gt; master and cause additional problems?? It isn?t more than about ?? of =
<br>
&gt; play or so<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a><br>
&gt; Donate:<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt; Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.75<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Archive:<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a>=C2=A0 <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
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&gt;<br>
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End of Mgs Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3<br>
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From: Paul Hunt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:33:33 +0000

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Second para is not correct, the self-adjusting nature of the clutch 
means wear at the slave end is automatically compensated for.  I know I 
have no experience of the MGA but read Barney Gaylord's page, the 
paragraph commencing "One of the key features ...": 
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/clutch/ct_100.htm

Yes there should be some free play at the pedal.  If the master piston 
can't come back the bypass port may not open and fluid not be able to 
flow freely between reservoir and  slave with the pedal released.  This 
is essential so that fluid expansion as the system heats up does not 
apply excess pressure to the release bearing with the pedal released 
which can cause clutch slip, and also to allow the self-adjusting 
function to operate correctly.  OTOH too much free play e.g. from worn 
components there causes a low biting point, which is why I said if the 
biting point is fine then leave it alone.

PaulH.

On 30/10/2023 18:25, Eric Russell wrote:
> cylinder piston (~ 1/16" which translates to ~ 3/8" at the pedal). 
> This ensures the piston is able to fully return to the off position.
>
> becoming elongated & the clevis pin looking more like a mini 
> crankshaft. All that lost motion means the clutch doesn't operate 
> through a full stroke.
>
> EjR
>
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    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Second para is not correct, the self-adjusting nature of the
      clutch means wear at the slave end is automatically compensated
      for.  I know I have no experience of the MGA but read Barney
      Gaylord's page, the paragraph commencing "One of the key features
      ...": <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/clutch/ct_100.htm">https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/clutch/ct_100.htm</a></p>
    <p>Yes there should be some free play at the pedal.  If the master
      piston can't come back the bypass port may not open and fluid not
      be able to flow freely between reservoir and  slave with the pedal
      released.  This is essential so that fluid expansion as the system
      heats up does not apply excess pressure to the release bearing
      with the pedal released which can cause clutch slip, and also to
      allow the self-adjusting function to operate correctly.  OTOH too
      much free play e.g. from worn components there causes a low biting
      point, which is why I said if the biting point is fine then leave
      it alone.<br>
    </p>
    <p>PaulH.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30/10/2023 18:25, Eric Russell
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7dBXBpY7sHstxfvbn7N1po2+XGapTLn6Q0BXokrh9+o=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">There should
          be a small amount of free play at the pushrod to master
          cylinder piston (~ 1/16" which translates to ~ 3/8" at the
          pedal). This ensures the piston is able to fully return to the
          off position. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Check the
          pushrod &amp; clevis pin at the slave cylinder. Since they are
          exposed to the elements they will often wear - the hole in the
          pushrod becoming elongated &amp; the clevis pin looking more
          like a mini crankshaft. All that lost motion means the clutch
          doesn't operate through a full stroke. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">EjR <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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