Subject: Re: [Mgs] Moss Motors clutch master cylinder brake fluid

From: Max Heim <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:59:57 -0700

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That looks like the one I installed, and it=E2=80=99s fine. Although I =
use DOT 4 Castrol LMA fluid, exclusively.

(DOT 4 has a higher boiling point than DOT 3, but is otherwise =
compatible. DOT 5 is the incompatible silicone fluid).

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Aug 30, 2023, at 9:30 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
>=20
> Hello everyone,
>=20
> I'm about to replace the clutch hydraulics on my 1974 MGB. I did this =
one other time a few years ago and used a master cylinder from a company =
in Knoxville, TN. One problem I had with it was that it was hard to get =
its cap off without first removing the cap on the brake master cylinder. =
The new cylinder from Moss appears that it won't have that issue. It's =
this one under 180-697: =
https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-3-4-bore=
 =
<https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-3-4-bor=
e>
>=20
> The problem is that there's no label on the cylinder stating whether =
or not it's DOT 3 compliant. The brake master I installed =
(https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket)  =
<https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket>is an =
aftermarket replacement from Moss, and it's labeled as DOT 3 compliant. =
I'm under the impression that most parts sold in the US are supposed to =
be that way, and have also been told that these new cylinders use a =
synthetic rubber that the old original cylinders didn't have, so the =
fluid is less mission critical and shouldn't cause the rubber parts to =
deteriorate.
>=20
> There's nothing on the Moss website saying one way or the other. Any =
thoughts?
>=20
> Thank you,
> -William Killeffer
> 1974 MGB
> 1996 Jeep Cherokee Country
> 2015 Chevrolet Sonic hatchback 1.8 5-speed
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs =
http://autox.team.net/archive
>=20
> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">That =
looks like the one I installed, and it=E2=80=99s fine. Although I use =
DOT 4 Castrol LMA fluid, exclusively.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">(DOT 4 has a higher boiling point than =
DOT 3, but is otherwise compatible. DOT 5 is the incompatible silicone =
fluid).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">Max Heim<br class=3D"">'66 MGB

</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>

<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 30, 2023, at 9:30 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hello everyone,</div><div =
class=3D""><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1" class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I'm =
about to replace the clutch hydraulics on my 1974 MGB. I did this one =
other time a few years ago and used a master cylinder from a company in =
Knoxville, TN. One problem I had with it was that it was hard to get its =
cap off without first removing the cap on the brake master cylinder. The =
new cylinder from Moss appears that it won't have that issue. It's this =
one under 180-697:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-=
3-4-bore" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replaceme=
nt-3-4-bore</a></div><div class=3D""><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1" =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The problem is that there's no label on =
the cylinder stating whether or not it's DOT 3 compliant. The brake =
master I installed (<a =
href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket" =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarke=
t) </a><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">is an aftermarket =
replacement from Moss, and it's labeled as DOT 3 compliant. I'm under =
the impression that most parts sold in the US are supposed to be that =
way, and have also been told that these new cylinders use a synthetic =
rubber that the old original cylinders didn't have, so the fluid is less =
mission critical and shouldn't cause the rubber parts to =
deteriorate.</span></div><div class=3D""><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1" =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There's nothing on the Moss website =
saying one way or the other. Any thoughts?</div><div class=3D""><br =
data-mce-bogus=3D"1" class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thank =
you,</div><div class=3D"">-William Killeffer</div><div class=3D"">1974 =
MGB</div><div class=3D"">1996 Jeep Cherokee Country</div><div =
class=3D"">2015 Chevrolet Sonic hatchback 1.8 =
5-speed</div></div></div>_______________________________________________<b=
r class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"">Donate: =
&nbsp;$12.75<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Archive: =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 18:07:20 -0400

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	These work OK. I have one.  There is not any extra fluid capacity i=
n them, according to a recent article in MG Driver, so bleeding the line abs=
olutely bubble-free is necessary.=20
	They also fit several GM trucks.
Bob

> On Aug 30, 2023, at 12:30 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>=20
> Hello everyone,
>=20
> I'm about to replace the clutch hydraulics on my 1974 MGB. I did this one o=
ther time a few years ago and used a master cylinder from a company in Knoxv=
ille, TN. One problem I had with it was that it was hard to get its cap off w=
ithout first removing the cap on the brake master cylinder. The new cylinder=
 from Moss appears that it won't have that issue. It's this one under 180-69=
7: https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-3-4-bor=
e
>=20
> The problem is that there's no label on the cylinder stating whether or no=
t it's DOT 3 compliant. The brake master I installed (https://mossmotors.com=
/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket) is an aftermarket replacement fr=
om Moss, and it's labeled as DOT 3 compliant. I'm under the impression that m=
ost parts sold in the US are supposed to be that way, and have also been tol=
d that these new cylinders use a synthetic rubber that the old original cyli=
nders didn't have, so the fluid is less mission critical and shouldn't cause=
 the rubber parts to deteriorate.
>=20
> There's nothing on the Moss website saying one way or the other. Any thoug=
hts?
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>These work O=
K. I have one. &nbsp;There is not any extra fluid capacity in them, accordin=
g to a recent article in MG Driver, so bleeding the line absolutely bubble-f=
ree is necessary.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>They also fit several GM trucks.</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
On Aug 30, 2023, at 12:30 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">wkille=
[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12=
pt; color: #000000"><div>Hello everyone,</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1">=
</div><div>I'm about to replace the clutch hydraulics on my 1974 MGB. I did t=
his one other time a few years ago and used a master cylinder from a company=
 in Knoxville, TN. One problem I had with it was that it was hard to get its=
 cap off without first removing the cap on the brake master cylinder. The ne=
w cylinder from Moss appears that it won't have that issue. It's this one un=
der 180-697:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cy=
linder-replacement-3-4-bore" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">https://mossmotors.c=
om/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-3-4-bore</a></div><div><br dat=
a-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>The problem is that there's no label on the cyl=
inder stating whether or not it's DOT 3 compliant. The brake master I instal=
led (<a href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-afterma=
rket" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master=
-cylinder-aftermarket) </a><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">is an aftermarke=
t replacement from Moss, and it's labeled as DOT 3 compliant. I'm under the i=
mpression that most parts sold in the US are supposed to be that way, and ha=
ve also been told that these new cylinders use a synthetic rubber that the o=
ld original cylinders didn't have, so the fluid is less mission critical and=
 shouldn't cause the rubber parts to deteriorate.</span></div><div><br data-=
mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>There's nothing on the Moss website saying one wa=
y or the other. Any thoughts?</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>=
Thank you,</div><div>-William Killeffer</div><div>1974 MGB</div><div>1996 Je=
ep Cherokee Country</div><div>2015 Chevrolet Sonic hatchback 1.8 5-speed</di=
v></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>=
_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><=
span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br>=
<span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.ne=
t/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</sp=
an><br><span></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/piperm=
ail/mgs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.=
net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br><s=
pan>Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh=
@gmail.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]</a></=
span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:46:53 +0200

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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>>> DOT 5 is the incompatible silicone fluid=E2=80=A6

I have used DOT 5 all the years I have had my BGT running from 2000 =
=E2=80=93 2023.=20

It is incompatible with lower DOT values, but if the system is flushed =
well before filling with DOT 5(.1), it works well.

=20

Cheers,

Hans=20

No longer BGT =E2=98=B9

=20

Van: Mgs <[email-masked]> Namens Max Heim
Verzonden: woensdag 30 augustus 2023 20:00
Aan: mglist <[email-masked]>
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Moss Motors clutch master cylinder brake fluid

=20

=20

=20

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB=20

=20

On Aug 30, 2023, at 9:30 AM, [email-masked] =

=20

Hello everyone,

=20

https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-3-4-bor=
e

=20

The problem is that there's no label on the cylinder stating whether or =
not it's DOT 3 compliant. The brake master I installed =
(https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket)  =
<https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket> is an =
aftermarket replacement from Moss, and it's labeled as DOT 3 compliant. =
I'm under the impression that most parts sold in the US are supposed to =
be that way, and have also been told that these new cylinders use a =
synthetic rubber that the old original cylinders didn't have, so the =
fluid is less mission critical and shouldn't cause the rubber parts to =
deteriorate.

=20

=20

Thank you,

-William Killeffer

1974 MGB

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

=20

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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>&gt;&gt;&gt;</span> DOT 5 is the =
incompatible silicone fluid=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I have used DOT 5 all the years I have had my BGT =
running from 2000 =E2=80=93 2023. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It =
is incompatible with lower DOT values, but if the system is flushed well =
before filling with DOT 5(.1), it works well.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hans =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>No longer BGT <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif'>=E2=98=B9</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Van:</b> Mgs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>Namens </b>Max =
Heim<br><b>Verzonden:</b> woensdag 30 augustus 2023 20:00<br><b>Aan:</b> =
mglist &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Mgs] Moss =
Motors clutch master cylinder brake fluid<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>That looks =
like the one I installed, and it=E2=80=99s fine. Although I use DOT 4 =
Castrol LMA fluid, exclusively.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>(DOT 4 has a higher boiling point than DOT 3, but is =
otherwise compatible. DOT 5 is the incompatible silicone =
fluid).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>--<br>Max Heim<br>'66 MGB <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Aug 30, 2023, at 9:30 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Hello =
everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I'm about to =
replace the clutch hydraulics on my 1974 MGB. I did this one other time =
a few years ago and used a master cylinder from a company in Knoxville, =
TN. One problem I had with it was that it was hard to get its cap off =
without first removing the cap on the brake master cylinder. The new =
cylinder from Moss appears that it won't have that issue. It's this one =
under 180-697:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement=
-3-4-bore">https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacem=
ent-3-4-bore</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The problem is =
that there's no label on the cylinder stating whether or not it's DOT 3 =
compliant. The brake master I installed (<a =
href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket"=
>https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket) =
</a>is an aftermarket replacement from Moss, and it's labeled as DOT 3 =
compliant. I'm under the impression that most parts sold in the US are =
supposed to be that way, and have also been told that these new =
cylinders use a synthetic rubber that the old original cylinders didn't =
have, so the fluid is less mission critical and shouldn't cause the =
rubber parts to deteriorate.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>There's =
nothing on the Moss website saying one way or the other. Any =
thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thank =
you,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>-William =
Killeffer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>1974 =
MGB<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>1996 Jeep =
Cherokee Country<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>2015 Chevrolet =
Sonic hatchback 1.8 5-speed<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br><br>=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>Donate: =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<br><br>Archive: <a =
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[email-masked]

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From: Paul Hunt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:00:05 +0100

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DOT4 has a higher boiling point than DOT3, DOT5.1 has a higher boiling 
point than DOT4 about the same as DOT5 and LMA.  It's said that there is 
more involved than just flushing when you switch between DOT5 and any of 
the others, it can sludge if any remains and they mix.  DOT5 doesn't 
harm paint like the other three do, but instead of absorbing water it 
absorbs air and can make for a spongy pedal.  The same amount of water 
gets into a DOT5 system as any of the others because the cap is vented 
and draws in what could be moisture-laden air as the system cools down.  
But instead of being absorbed and so removed when you replace the fluid 
in DOT3/4/5.1 systems it can remain in the system and if it gets to the 
calipers can boil.  I remember reading a piece from the American 
military some time ago asking the SAE to investigate replacing DOT5 with 
other fluids without having to replace the complete braking system.

PaulH.

On 30/08/2023 19:08, [email-masked] wrote:
> For whatever reason, my memory isn't always spot-on, but I'm pretty 
> sure I was using DOT 3 with the previous clutch hydraulics, so that's 
> likely to be what I use moving forward. Once I get it disassembled, 
> I'm going to blow compressed air through the metal line to clear out 
> any old fluid. Never used DOT 5. Understand it has some good qualities 
> along with more than a few drawbacks.
>
> About six months ago, I bled the clutch system til clear fluid ran 
> out. The fluid that came out at first was black. I didn't think I was 
> having that much trouble, so after bleeding, I put it all back 
> together. Now, everything seems to point of it suffering a failure 
> somewhere along the fluid pathway, so changing all the components will 
> at least let me know how old everything is because I'll write it down 
> in the maintenance notebook.
>
> Thank you,
>
> -William
>
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    <p>DOT4 has a higher boiling point than DOT3, DOT5.1 has a higher
      boiling point than DOT4 about the same as DOT5 and LMA.  It's said
      that there is more involved than just flushing when you switch
      between DOT5 and any of the others, it can sludge if any remains
      and they mix.  DOT5 doesn't harm paint like the other three do,
      but instead of absorbing water it absorbs air and can make for a
      spongy pedal.  The same amount of water gets into a DOT5 system as
      any of the others because the cap is vented and draws in what
      could be moisture-laden air as the system cools down.  But instead
      of being absorbed and so removed when you replace the fluid in
      DOT3/4/5.1 systems it can remain in the system and if it gets to
      the calipers can boil.  I remember reading a piece from the
      American military some time ago asking the SAE to investigate
      replacing DOT5 with other fluids without having to replace the
      complete braking system.</p>
    <p>PaulH.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30/08/2023 19:08,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
        12pt; color: #000000">
        <div>For whatever reason, my memory isn't always spot-on, but
          I'm pretty sure I was using DOT 3 with the previous clutch
          hydraulics, so that's likely to be what I use moving forward.
          Once I get it disassembled, I'm going to blow compressed air
          through the metal line to clear out any old fluid. Never used
          DOT 5. Understand it has some good qualities along with more
          than a few drawbacks.</div>
        <div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
        </div>
        <div>About six months ago, I bled the clutch system til clear
          fluid ran out. The fluid that came out at first was black. I
          didn't think I was having that much trouble, so after
          bleeding, I put it all back together. Now, everything seems to
          point of it suffering a failure somewhere along the fluid
          pathway, so changing all the components will at least let me
          know how old everything is because I'll write it down in the
          maintenance notebook.</div>
        <div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
        </div>
        <div>Thank you,</div>
        <div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
        </div>
        <div>-William</div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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From: Max Heim <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:22:56 -0700

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Yes, I just meant it was incompatible with DOT 3 and 4, not that it was =
somehow incompatible with the master cylinder.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Aug 31, 2023, at 12:46 AM, <[email-masked]> =
=E2=80=93 2023.=20
(https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket)=C2=A0 =
thoughts?
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs> http://autox.team.net/archive =
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Yes, =
I just meant it was incompatible with DOT 3 and 4, not that it was =
somehow incompatible with the master cylinder.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">Max Heim<br class=3D"">'66 MGB

</div>

<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 31, 2023, at 12:46 AM, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
charset=3D"UTF-8" class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; =
font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">&gt;&gt;&gt;</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>DOT 5 is the incompatible =
silicone fluid=E2=80=A6<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I =
have used DOT 5 all the years I have had my BGT running from 2000 =E2=80=93=
 2023.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">It is incompatible with =
lower DOT values, but if the system is flushed well before filling with =
DOT 5(.1), it works well.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Cheers,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hans<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">No longer BGT<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">=E2=98=B9</span><span =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Van:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">Namens<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Max Heim<br class=3D""><b=
 class=3D"">Verzonden:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>woensdag 30 augustus 2023 =
20:00<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Aan:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>mglist &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Onderwerp:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Mgs] Moss Motors =
clutch master cylinder brake fluid<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">That looks like the one I =
installed, and it=E2=80=99s fine. Although I use DOT 4 Castrol LMA =
fluid, exclusively.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">(DOT 4 has a higher boiling point than =
DOT 3, but is otherwise compatible. DOT 5 is the incompatible silicone =
fluid).<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">--<br class=3D"">Max Heim<br =
class=3D"">'66 MGB<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">On Aug 30, 2023, at =
9:30 AM,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hello everyone,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p=
 class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I'm about to replace the clutch =
hydraulics on my 1974 MGB. I did this one other time a few years ago and =
used a master cylinder from a company in Knoxville, TN. One problem I =
had with it was that it was hard to get its cap off without first =
removing the cap on the brake master cylinder. The new cylinder from =
Moss appears that it won't have that issue. It's this one under =
180-697:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-=
3-4-bore" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replaceme=
nt-3-4-bore</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The problem is that there's no label on =
the cylinder stating whether or not it's DOT 3 compliant. The brake =
master I installed (<a =
href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarket" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://mossmotors.com/180-767-brake-master-cylinder-aftermarke=
t)<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></a>is an =
aftermarket replacement from Moss, and it's labeled as DOT 3 compliant. =
I'm under the impression that most parts sold in the US are supposed to =
be that way, and have also been told that these new cylinders use a =
synthetic rubber that the old original cylinders didn't have, so the =
fluid is less mission critical and shouldn't cause the rubber parts to =
deteriorate.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">There's nothing on the Moss website =
saying one way or the other. Any thoughts?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p=
 class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thank you,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">-William Killeffer<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">1974 MGB<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">1996=
 Jeep Cherokee Country<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">2015 Chevrolet Sonic =
hatchback 1.8 5-speed<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"">Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br class=3D"">Suggested =
annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Unsubscribe:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]" =
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class=3D"">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]</a><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Max Heim <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:28:06 -0700

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I see no reason to continue to use the inferior DOT3 as opposed to DOT4, =
however. It may cost a few pennies less, but that hardly seems=20
a justification, considering how critical the braking system is. Of =
course, you could argue that the clutch system is not as critical, but =
it would be worse than splitting hairs to use DOT3 for the clutch and =
DOT4 in the brakes=E2=80=A6 you would never keep track of that.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Aug 31, 2023, at 9:22 AM, Max Heim <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Yes, I just meant it was incompatible with DOT 3 and 4, not that it =
was somehow incompatible with the master cylinder.
>=20
> --
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB
>=20
>> On Aug 31, 2023, at 12:46 AM, <[email-masked] =
>>=20
=E2=80=93 2023.=20
>> It is incompatible with lower DOT values, but if the system is =
flushed well before filling with DOT 5(.1), it works well.
>> =20
>> Cheers,
>> Hans=20
>> No longer BGT =E2=98=B9
>> =20
>> Van: Mgs <[email-masked] =
>> That looks like the one I installed, and it=E2=80=99s fine. Although =
I use DOT 4 Castrol LMA fluid, exclusively.
>>> I'm about to replace the clutch hydraulics on my 1974 MGB. I did =
this one other time a few years ago and used a master cylinder from a =
company in Knoxville, TN. One problem I had with it was that it was hard =
to get its cap off without first removing the cap on the brake master =
cylinder. The new cylinder from Moss appears that it won't have that =
issue. It's this one under 180-697: =
https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-3-4-bore=
 =
<https://mossmotors.com/180-697-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement-3-4-bor=
e>
thoughts?

--Apple-Mail=_6DB81277-9406-470F-B468-D76A22993F21
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I =
see no reason to continue to use the inferior DOT3 as opposed to DOT4, =
however. It may cost a few pennies less, but that hardly seems&nbsp;<div =
class=3D"">a justification, considering how critical the braking system =
is. Of course, you could argue that the clutch system is not as =
critical, but it would be worse than splitting hairs to use DOT3 for the =
clutch and DOT4 in the brakes=E2=80=A6 you would never keep track of =
that.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">Max Heim<br class=3D"">'66 MGB

</div>

<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 31, 2023, at 9:22 AM, Max Heim &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Yes, I just meant it =
was incompatible with DOT 3 and 4, not that it was somehow incompatible =
with the master cylinder.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">Max Heim<br class=3D"">'66 MGB

</div>

<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =

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[email-masked]

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