Subject: Re: [Mgs] Brown & Gammons LTD

From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2023 18:50:18 -0400

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 	Alas, it=E2=80=99s not just B&G supplying parts that do not fit or d=
o not do the job.
	Today, by chance, I was involved in a clutch replacement in 1976 MG=
B. The new throw-out bearing came with two types of retainers, one the usual=
 sort, the other a spring-thing. Didn=E2=80=99t matter initially, as the T/O=
 bearing centre casting was too large diameter to fit into the T/O lever arm=
s.   Fortunately, we had a lathe in the shop and a few minutes later had cut=
 .015 off the casting.  The original-type retainer clips then fit and job is=
 done.
	But the owner who does not happen to have a lathe handy would be ou=
t of luck, and if the job were being done by a shop, another 30-45 minutes o=
f shop time for the job.
Bob

> On Aug 15, 2023, at 6:15 PM, dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Just want everyone to know that this British company in Baldock Hertfordsh=
ire sells pure unadulterated crap.
> =20
> DO NOT patronize these people; you will regret it
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nb=
sp;<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Alas=
, it=E2=80=99s not just B&amp;G supplying parts that do not fit or do not do=
 the job.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span>Today, by chance, I was involved in a clutch replace=
ment in 1976 MGB. The new throw-out bearing came with two types of retainers=
, one the usual sort, the other a spring-thing. Didn=E2=80=99t matter initia=
lly, as the T/O bearing centre casting was too large diameter to fit into th=
e T/O lever arms. &nbsp; Fortunately, we had a lathe in the shop and a few m=
inutes later had cut .015 off the casting. &nbsp;The original-type retainer c=
lips then fit and job is done.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>But the owner who does not h=
appen to have a lathe handy would be out of luck, and if the job were being d=
one by a shop, another 30-45 minutes of shop time for the job.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 15,=
 2023, at 6:15 PM, dave northrup &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">dav=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">=

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just want everyone to know that this British company i=
n Baldock Hertfordshire sells pure unadulterated crap.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">DO NOT patronize these people; you will regret it<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>

</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>________=
_______________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span>Don=
ate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.=
html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><br><s=
pan></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs">=
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From: Paul Hunt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 08:37:52 +0100

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Which parts have you had problems with?  They are one of the four main 
suppliers I use and I can't guarantee not to have problems with any of 
them.

Moss has been the cause of my problems lately.  A new headlight switch 
didn't work out of the box and had to be opened  up and the contacts 
cleaned.  Headlight sub-harnesses had pressed bullets instead of the 
usual brass and were way too small for the standard Lucar connectors.  
And even if they had been the right diameter they were too long with an 
uninsulated portion sticking out the back 1/4" so at risk of shorting 
unless sleeved with heat-shrink. Some years ago king-pin shims stamped 
with different numbers but all the same thickness.

'Lucas' indicator flasher units from a variety of sources with box and 
can all stamped with the correct information but internally they are 
hazard flashers which work very differently and have two safety 
implications when used as indicators.

A recent case on the MGOC fora where a chap in America had bought new 
stub-axles and wheel bearings from the club where the bearings didn't 
fit the axles because the latter were over-size.

Even when you do get things that work 'out of the box, they don't last 
anywhere near as long as the originals e.g. wheel cylinders and clutch 
slaves only lasting a few k before they either leak, or seize in the 
case of the wheel cylinders.

Hydraulic brake light switches that start failing after just  few 
months.  After a 'discussion' the MGOC did send a replacement that I use 
with a relay.  Present stock has a very simple pressure contact instead 
of the original sliding contact that is self-cleaning, arcing from the 
high inrush current of filament bulbs occurs from day one and very soon 
they start going high-resistance needing more and more pressure from the 
pedal before the lights come on.

What's important is how they respond to complaints - if you do complain, 
many users just seem to moan on fora.  There is another supplier here 
who I have had problems with over and over again, they come out very 
high in the annual MGOC survey being popular because of price, but when 
they supplied 'stainless' steel wheel nuts that rusted over one winter 
with no wet or salt running I had to threaten them with court action 
before they would replace them.  Needless to say I don't touch them with 
a barge pole now.

There are only a limited number of manufacturers, and suppliers probably 
shop around for the cheapest just like users seem to do. Even when a 
supplier offers an 'OE' a cheaper 'aftermarket' the more expensive OE 
aren't as good as they should be.

PaulH.

On 15/08/2023 23:15, dave northrup wrote:
>
> Just want everyone to know that this British company in Baldock 
> Hertfordshire sells pure unadulterated crap.
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
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    <p>Which parts have you had problems with?  They are one of the four
      main suppliers I use and I can't guarantee not to have problems
      with any of them.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>Moss has been the cause of my problems lately.  A new headlight
      switch didn't work out of the box and had to be opened  up and the
      contacts cleaned.  Headlight sub-harnesses had pressed bullets
      instead of the usual brass and were way too small for the standard
      Lucar connectors.  And even if they had been the right diameter
      they were too long with an uninsulated portion sticking out the
      back 1/4" so at risk of shorting unless sleeved with heat-shrink. 
      Some years ago king-pin shims stamped with different numbers but
      all the same thickness.</p>
    <p>'Lucas' indicator flasher units from a variety of sources with
      box and can all stamped with the correct information but
      internally they are hazard flashers which work very differently
      and have two safety implications when used as indicators.</p>
    <p>A recent case on the MGOC fora where a chap in America had bought
      new stub-axles and wheel bearings from the club where the bearings
      didn't fit the axles because the latter were over-size.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Even when you do get things that work 'out of the box, they don't
      last anywhere near as long as the originals e.g. wheel cylinders
      and clutch slaves only lasting a few k before they either leak, or
      seize in the case of the wheel cylinders.</p>
    <p>Hydraulic brake light switches that start failing after just  few
      months.  After a 'discussion' the MGOC did send a replacement that
      I use with a relay.  Present stock has a very simple pressure
      contact instead of the original sliding contact that is
      self-cleaning, arcing from the high inrush current of filament
      bulbs occurs from day one and very soon they start going
      high-resistance needing more and more pressure from the pedal
      before the lights come on.<br>
    </p>
    What's important is how they respond to complaints - if you do
    complain, many users just seem to moan on fora.  There is another
    supplier here who I have had problems with over and over again, they
    come out very high in the annual MGOC survey being popular because
    of price, but when they supplied 'stainless' steel wheel nuts that
    rusted over one winter with no wet or salt running I had to threaten
    them with court action before they would replace them.  Needless to
    say I don't touch them with a barge pole now.
    <p>There are only a limited number of manufacturers, and suppliers
      probably shop around for the cheapest just like users seem to do. 
      Even when a supplier offers an 'OE' a cheaper 'aftermarket' the
      more expensive OE aren't as good as they should be.</p>
    <p>PaulH.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/08/2023 23:15, dave northrup
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal">Just want everyone to know that this
          British company in Baldock Hertfordshire sells pure
          unadulterated crap.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">DO NOT patronize these people; you will
          regret it<o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

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[email-masked]

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From: dave northrup <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:40:03 +0000

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From: Paul Hunt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:46:46 +0100

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Keep it quiet or everyone will want one (or two)!  The usual problem in 
the MGB world - for very many years - has been seat foams too fat with 
people slicing an inch off the bottom or drilling holes through to 
soften it.  I've been in a GT with them and my head was canted over to 
clear the sunroof surround - very uncomfortable.

PaulH.

On 16/08/2023 16:40, dave northrup wrote:
>
> They sent me some seat foams that are so thin and worthless that 
> Walmart would be too embarrassed to stock.  NO RETURNS!!!!!
>
> And btw Moss typically carries crap.  They should be the vendor of 
> last resort.
>
> For MGA parts I like mgaparts.com, aka Scarborough Faire.
>
>
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    <p>Keep it quiet or everyone will want one (or two)!  The usual
      problem in the MGB world - for very many years - has been seat
      foams too fat with people slicing an inch off the bottom or
      drilling holes through to soften it.  I've been in a GT with them
      and my head was canted over to clear the sunroof surround - very
      uncomfortable.</p>
    <p>PaulH.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/08/2023 16:40, dave northrup
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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        <p class="MsoNormal">They sent me some seat foams that are so
          thin and worthless that Walmart would be too embarrassed to
          stock.  NO RETURNS!!!!!<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">And btw Moss typically carries crap.  They
          should be the vendor of last resort.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">For MGA parts I like mgaparts.com, aka
          Scarborough Faire.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
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[email-masked]

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From: Barrie Robinson <[email-masked]> (2603:10b6:b01:108::21) To CY8PR19MB7154.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:930:52::9)ZqVdsP5QkpyCDlnNzCvtQRqQvfso6GYbM7DtGdYrhu3FZil2gTvoA+fwRqNGan3Bj85V2u5foNVufocS6UjL4ZPzCG6kBajgYbacsV0JkN+HM80b+JbR6UaAY+IcS+RIZAJftgD5XPlKsG1bqLbk1esFIEhnR/fiJzNQTu+6a3WgLFYQ2sV6zntNdOFObzsfyZXNSfLhfAlTMpKCfmlQwkjkxyOFqCyAihuu5EDoZnNtcjyJ3iwAsDSvxsjDI/5webotw4vumDsnT2OEerHibjLo9R4QQEelkaVOEsib9/FaF+e3N8DXcYcpgejfqZfbRBdClrW77IseV5ey6ji3orE94xr/hIGJ/O+NFzqH04KGjQJoT09FB1Ez2QAYdYvoOj0agZr0MxhjzMS/kbXnt4o7TTiWhs8WXt0bI2JI75sUMU7tpnIxRuKlFp3eK+1rqItqD9ZRPXGgqAjWXFEX/lQPi
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:19:48 -0400

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Hello folks,

When I built, from scratch, my MGB GT V8 (because none were available in 
Canada) I used an 'upholstery' bloke.  He put in memory foam for the 
seats and all has been well since then (over 10 years) For bums of 
distinction one must use top quality foam !!!

Barrie R

On 8/17/2023 3:46 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
>
> Keep it quiet or everyone will want one (or two)!  The usual problem 
> in the MGB world - for very many years - has been seat foams too fat 
> with people slicing an inch off the bottom or drilling holes through 
> to soften it.  I've been in a GT with them and my head was canted over 
> to clear the sunroof surround - very uncomfortable.
>
> PaulH.
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
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    <p>Hello folks,</p>
    <p>When I built, from scratch, my MGB GT V8 (because none were
      available in Canada) I used an 'upholstery' bloke.&nbsp; He put in
      memory foam for the seats and all has been well since then (over
      10 years) For bums of distinction one must use top quality foam
      !!!</p>
    <p>Barrie R</p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/17/2023 3:46 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      
      <p>Keep it quiet or everyone will want one (or two)!&nbsp; The usual
        drilling holes through to soften it.&nbsp; I've been in a GT with
        them and my head was canted over to clear the sunroof surround -
        very uncomfortable.</p>
      <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email-masked]">
            stock.&nbsp; NO RETURNS!!!!!<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">And btw Moss typically carries crap.&nbsp;
            They should be the vendor of last resort.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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[email-masked]

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From: Max Heim <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:41:32 -0700

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That=E2=80=99s not a joke. I had to cut my Moss bottom foam at a =
diagonal, starting with 2 inches at the back edge, leaving it thicker at =
the front for thigh support. I still sit taller than in my old seats.

--=20
Max Heim
1966 MGB
1967 Barracuda

> On Aug 17, 2023, at 12:46 AM, Paul Hunt <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Keep it quiet or everyone will want one (or two)!  The usual problem =
in the MGB world - for very many years - has been seat foams too fat =
with people slicing an inch off the bottom or drilling holes through to =
soften it.  I've been in a GT with them and my head was canted over to =
clear the sunroof surround - very uncomfortable.
>> They sent me some seat foams that are so thin and worthless that =
>> =20
>> And btw Moss typically carries crap.  They should be the vendor of =
last resort.
>> For MGA parts I like mgaparts.com, aka Scarborough Faire.

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">That=E2=80=99s not a joke. I had to cut my Moss bottom foam =
at a diagonal, starting with 2 inches at the back edge, leaving it =
thicker at the front for thigh support. I still sit taller than in my =
old seats.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">--&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Max Heim<br class=3D"">1966 MGB<br =
class=3D"">1967 Barracuda</div></div></div>
</div>

<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 17, 2023, at 12:46 AM, Paul Hunt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
charset=3D"UTF-8" class=3D""><p style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Verdana; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Keep it quiet or everyone will want =
one (or two)!&nbsp; The usual problem in the MGB world - for very many =
years - has been seat foams too fat with people slicing an inch off the =
bottom or drilling holes through to soften it.&nbsp; I've been in a GT =
with them and my head was canted over to clear the sunroof surround - =
very uncomfortable.</p><p style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Verdana; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">PaulH.<br class=3D""></p><div =
class=3D"moz-cite-prefix" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Verdana; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;">On 16/08/2023 16:40, dave northrup wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:[email-masked]" =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">They sent me some =
seat foams that are so thin and worthless that Walmart would be too =
embarrassed to stock.&nbsp; NO RETURNS!!!!!<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">And btw Moss typically =
carries crap.&nbsp; They should be the vendor of last resort.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">For MGA parts I like <a =
href=3D"http://mgaparts.com" class=3D"">mgaparts.com</a>, aka =
Scarborough Faire.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><br class=3D""></blockquote><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: Barrie Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2023 11:10:50 -0400

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Hello folks,

When I built, from scratch, my MGB GT V8 (because none were available in 
Canada) I used an 'upholstery' bloke.  He put in memory foam for the 
seats and all has been well since then (10 years) For bums of 
distinction one must use top quality foam !!!

Barrie R

>> For MGA parts I like mgaparts.com, aka Scarborough Faire.
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      memory foam for the seats and all has been well since then (10
      years) For bums of distinction one must use top quality foam !!!</p>

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

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[email-masked]

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