Subject: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:04:31 -0400 (EDT)

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Hello everyone, 

The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to replace everything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a couple of years before actually starting the project. 

So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably one of the more challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next step was working on the rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on them that doesn't line up with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been too long to try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any good anyway because I don't recall that there were too many choices for that part. You could get a cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that may be made in England. I went with the cheaper one. 

Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another hole in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain such a notion anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The current wheel cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there yet. 

The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes. I started to bleed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's been a letdown for several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem too small for the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which causes the tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seemed to barely be able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have is that I am single and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sources of help. If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyone have any advice on this topic? 

Thank you, 
-William 
1974 MGB 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>Hello everyone,</div><div><br data-mce-bogu=
s=3D"1"></div><div>The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided=
 that I wanted to replace everything relating to the brakes and their hydra=
ulics except for the metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to =
sit on them for a couple of years before actually starting the project.</di=
v><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>So, I got the new master cylinde=
r installed, which is probably one of the more challenging things I've ever=
 done on the car. Next step was working on the rear brakes. The rubber hose=
 in the back was pretty simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. =
I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have any trouble. But the=
se new ones have a roller pin on them that doesn't line up with the holes o=
n the brake's backing plate. It's been too long to try and swap them with M=
oss, and I'm not sure that would do any good anyway because I don't recall =
that there were too many choices for that part. You could get a cheaper aft=
ermarket or a more expensive part that may be made in England. I went with =
the cheaper one.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Has this bee=
n an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another hole in the back=
 plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of those DPO solution=
s. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain such a notion anyway.=
 The part should fit and function correctly. The current wheel cylinders ar=
e probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all new parts. The front b=
rakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there yet.</div><div><br data-m=
ce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>The next question has to do with bleeding the rea=
r brakes. I started to bleed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum =
tool I got at a well-known less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool s=
tore. It's been a letdown for several reasons, among them that the bleeders=
 on the wheel cylinders seem too small for the bleeder fittings that came w=
ith the tool, which causes the tool to draw a great deal of air through its=
 system. I seemed to barely be able to get any fluid through the system. Th=
e trouble I have is that I am single and live alone, so I don't have any re=
adily available sources of help. If the brakes are going to be bled, I have=
 to do them by myself. Does anyone have any advice on this topic?</div><div=
><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Thank you,</div><div>-William</div><di=
v>1974 MGB</div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:44:51 -0400 (EDT)

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Thank you for your reply.=20
As far as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that there was a choi=
ce as to whether they were for a GT or a roadster. The only choice was eith=
er Lockheed brand (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far =
as I know, the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car for 20=
 years. Its engine is not original, so who knows what else could have been =
swapped.=20
Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing? And how do do ped=
al pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?=20
The fluid is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so no lines are cri=
mped. But thanks to the poor fitment of the bleeder thing with the tool, I =
can't tell if the air bubbles are coming through the brake lines or are air=
 being drawn into the bleeder because the fitment isn't good.=20
Yes, I did the clutch system a couple or three years ago. It was a bit frus=
trating, but seems ok now.=20

Thank you,=20
-William=20

From: "Robert's New iPad" <[email-masked]>=20
To: [email-masked]=20
Cc: [email-masked]=20
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 1:36:03 PM=20
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions=20

The rear-brake question opens more questions. MGBs had rear cylinders to fi=
t the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of cylinders and different back =
plates. The roll pins located the cylinders in the correct backing plates.=
=20
Thus the questions arise: Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders? GT backp=
lates and new Tourer cylinders? Car modified before you got it? Wrong cylin=
ders ordered/shipped?=20
Having wrestled through this with my GT, it was years back and now I do not=
 recall which cylinders (size and pin location) are Tourer or GT. Someone w=
ill know, though, and that challenge easily mastered. GT cylinders are larg=
er, suited to the additional weight of GTs. If you have to swap parts, do i=
t the way MG built it=E2=80=94they got it right.=20
As you replaced them years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped wrong cyl=
inders.=20
As to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal pushing has =
done fine for me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders on this =
GT. They are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/4 cup of br=
ake fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile. If the rear brakes are diffi=
cult to bleed, have a close look at the metal pipes on the axle. A car that=
 has been flat-bed carried may have had the straps wrapped around the axle,=
 crushing the tubes. That=E2=80=99s not an unusual thing to find.=20
Since you are changing hoses, have you changed clutch hose? These break dow=
n internally whilst appearing fine externally. As you do the change, do it =
swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducing a bubble into the line is altoget=
her too easy, and bleeding the clutch line has made many an owner irate.=20
Bob=20

On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, [ mailto:[email-masked] | wkilleffer@epb=
fi.com ] wrote:=20

Hello everyone,=20

The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to r=
eplace everything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except for th=
e metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a c=
ouple of years before actually starting the project.=20

So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably one of the m=
ore challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next step was working on =
the rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty simple, but the iss=
ue is with the wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and =
didn't have any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on them that =
doesn't line up with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been too =
long to try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any goo=
d anyway because I don't recall that there were too many choices for that p=
art. You could get a cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that may =
be made in England. I went with the cheaper one.=20

Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another hole=
 in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of those =
DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain such a no=
tion anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The current wheel =
cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all new parts.=
 The front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there yet.=20

The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes. I started to ble=
ed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known=
 less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's been a letdown =
for several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders se=
em too small for the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which causes=
 the tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seemed to barel=
y be able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have is that I=
 am single and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sources of=
 help. If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by myself. Doe=
s anyone have any advice on this topic?=20

Thank you,=20
-William=20
1974 MGB=20

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Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs | http://www.team.net/pipermai=
l/mgs ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ]=
=20

Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked] |=
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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>Thank you for your reply.</div><div>As far =
as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that there was a choice as t=
o whether they were for a GT or a roadster. The only choice was either Lock=
heed brand (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far as I kn=
ow, the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car for 20 years.=
 Its engine is not original, so who knows what else could have been swapped=
.&nbsp;</div><div>Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing?=
 And how do do pedal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?</div><div>Th=
e fluid is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so no lines are crimp=
ed. But thanks to the poor fitment of the bleeder thing with the tool, I ca=
n't tell if the air bubbles are coming through the brake lines or are air b=
eing drawn into the bleeder because the fitment isn't good.&nbsp;</div><div=
>Yes, I did the clutch system a couple or three years ago. It was a bit fru=
strating, but seems ok now.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>T=
hank you,</div><div>-William</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-mark=
er=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Robert's =
New iPad" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>To: </b>[email-masked]<br><b=
>Cc: </b>[email-masked]<br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, October 23, 2021 1:36=
:03 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions<br></div><div>=
<br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=09</s=
pan>The rear-brake question opens more questions. &nbsp; &nbsp;MGBs had rea=
r cylinders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of cylinders an=
d different back plates. &nbsp; &nbsp;The roll pins located the cylinders i=
n the correct backing plates.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=09</span>Thus the questions arise: &nbsp=
;Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders? GT backplates and new Tourer cyli=
nders? &nbsp;Car modified before you got it? &nbsp;Wrong cylinders ordered/=
shipped?</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">=09</span>Having wrestled through this with my GT, it was year=
s back and now I do not recall which cylinders (size and pin location) are =
Tourer or GT. &nbsp;Someone will know, though, and that challenge easily ma=
stered. &nbsp; GT cylinders are larger, suited to the additional weight of =
GTs. &nbsp;If you have to swap parts, do it the way MG built it=E2=80=94the=
y got it right.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">=09</span>As you replaced them years ago, my bet =
is that the vendor shipped wrong cylinders.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=09</span>As to the b=
leeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal pushing has done fine f=
or me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders on this GT. &nbsp;T=
hey are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/4 cup of brake f=
luid doing the job are hardly worthwhile. &nbsp; If the rear brakes are dif=
ficult to bleed, have a close look at the metal pipes on the axle. &nbsp;A =
car that has been flat-bed carried may have had the straps wrapped around t=
he axle, crushing the tubes. &nbsp;That=E2=80=99s not an unusual thing to f=
ind.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">=09</span>Since you are changing hoses, have you changed clutch ho=
se? &nbsp;These break down internally whilst appearing fine externally. As =
you do the change, do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducing a bubble=
 into the line is altogether too easy, and bleeding the clutch line has mad=
e many an owner irate.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:w=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer"=
>[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:#000000"><div>Hello everyone,</div><br><div>The car I'm working on i=
s a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to replace everything relati=
ng to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the metal lines. I ordered=
 the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a couple of years before ac=
tually starting the project.</div><br><div>So, I got the new master cylinde=
r installed, which is probably one of the more challenging things I've ever=
 done on the car. Next step was working on the rear brakes. The rubber hose=
 in the back was pretty simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. =
I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have any trouble. But the=
se new ones have a roller pin on them that doesn't line up with the holes o=
n the brake's backing plate. It's been too long to try and swap them with M=
oss, and I'm not sure that would do any good anyway because I don't recall =
that there were too many choices for that part. You could get a cheaper aft=
ermarket or a more expensive part that may be made in England. I went with =
the cheaper one.</div><br><div>Has this been an issue for anyone else? I co=
uld probably drill another hole in the back plate to match the roll pin, bu=
t that seems like one of those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I sho=
uld have to entertain such a notion anyway. The part should fit and functio=
n correctly. The current wheel cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I l=
iked the idea of all new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda, bu=
t we're not there yet.</div><br><div>The next question has to do with bleed=
ing the rear brakes. I started to bleed the brake furthest from the MC usin=
g a vacuum tool I got at a well-known less expensive (think shipping at a p=
ort) tool store. It's been a letdown for several reasons, among them that t=
he bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem too small for the bleeder fittings =
that came with the tool, which causes the tool to draw a great deal of air =
through its system. I seemed to barely be able to get any fluid through the=
 system. The trouble I have is that I am single and live alone, so I don't =
have any readily available sources of help. If the brakes are going to be b=
led, I have to do them by myself. Does anyone have any advice on this topic=
?</div><br><div>Thank you,</div><div>-William</div><div>1974 MGB</div></div=
></div></blockquote><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr">__________________________=
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=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]</a><br>=
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ggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.=
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x.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net=
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[email-masked]

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