Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions

From: Max Heim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:23:50 -0700

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I don't really have any answers, I can just confirm that wheel cylinders =
are a part which has been =E2=80=9Cdown-qualitied=E2=80=9D to the point =
that they are scarcely serviceable. The offshore manufacturers seem to =
have settled on the tiniest possible bleeders, often with 7mm hexes =E2=80=
=94 a size so small that it is not included in most wrench sets, and =
which offers almost zero resistance to rounding.

Next time I am going to try rebuilding the cylinders instead. If they =
have been driven at all they usually don=E2=80=99t need honing =E2=80=94 =
just new seals.

As for the vacuum bleeder, I don=E2=80=99t know what the bleeder =
fittings in your kit look like, but maybe you could just substitute a =
different size hose? It has to seal well or it won=E2=80=99t work. In =
the past I have cobbled up adapters using metal tubes, different sizes =
of hose and hose clamps.

Good luck.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Oct 23, 2021, at 10:04 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
>=20
> Hello everyone,
>=20
> The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted =
to replace everything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except =
for the metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on =
them for a couple of years before actually starting the project.
>=20
> So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably one of =
the more challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next step was =
working on the rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty =
simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe =
twenty years ago and didn't have any trouble. But these new ones have a =
roller pin on them that doesn't line up with the holes on the brake's =
backing plate. It's been too long to try and swap them with Moss, and =
I'm not sure that would do any good anyway because I don't recall that =
there were too many choices for that part. You could get a cheaper =
aftermarket or a more expensive part that may be made in England. I went =
with the cheaper one.
>=20
> Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another =
hole in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of =
those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain =
such a notion anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The =
current wheel cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea =
of all new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not =
there yet.
>=20
> The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes. I started =
to bleed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got at a =
well-known less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's =
been a letdown for several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the =
wheel cylinders seem too small for the bleeder fittings that came with =
the tool, which causes the tool to draw a great deal of air through its =
system. I seemed to barely be able to get any fluid through the system. =
The trouble I have is that I am single and live alone, so I don't have =
any readily available sources of help. If the brakes are going to be =
bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyone have any advice on this =
topic?
>=20
> Thank you,
> -William
> 1974 MGB
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs =
http://autox.team.net/archive
>=20
> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I =
don't really have any answers, I can just confirm that wheel cylinders =
are a part which has been =E2=80=9Cdown-qualitied=E2=80=9D to the point =
that they are scarcely serviceable. The offshore manufacturers seem to =
have settled on the tiniest possible bleeders, often with 7mm hexes =E2=80=
=94 a size so small that it is not included in most wrench sets, and =
which offers almost zero resistance to rounding.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Next time I am going to try rebuilding =
the cylinders instead. If they have been driven at all they usually =
don=E2=80=99t need honing =E2=80=94 just new seals.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As for the vacuum =
bleeder, I don=E2=80=99t know what the bleeder fittings in your kit look =
like, but maybe you could just substitute a different size hose? It has =
to seal well or it won=E2=80=99t work. In the past I have cobbled up =
adapters using metal tubes, different sizes of hose and hose =
clamps.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Good =
luck.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; =
min-height: 16px;" class=3D"">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">'66 MGB</div></div></div>
</div>

<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 23, 2021, at 10:04 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hello everyone,</div><div =
class=3D""><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1" class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to =
replace everything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except =
for the metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on =
them for a couple of years before actually starting the =
project.</div><div class=3D""><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1" =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">So, I got the new master cylinder =
installed, which is probably one of the more challenging things I've =
ever done on the car. Next step was working on the rear brakes. The =
rubber hose in the back was pretty simple, but the issue is with the =
wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have =
any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on them that doesn't =
line up with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been too long =
to try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any good =
anyway because I don't recall that there were too many choices for that =
part. You could get a cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that =
may be made in England. I went with the cheaper one.</div><div =
class=3D""><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1" class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Has =
this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another hole =
in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of =
those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain =
such a notion anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The =
current wheel cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea =
of all new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not =
there yet.</div><div class=3D""><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1" =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The next question has to do with =
bleeding the rear brakes. I started to bleed the brake furthest from the =
MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known less expensive (think =
shipping at a port) tool store. It's been a letdown for several reasons, =
among them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem too small for =
the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which causes the tool to =
draw a great deal of air through its system. I seemed to barely be able =
to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have is that I am =
single and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sources of =
help. If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by myself. =
Does anyone have any advice on this topic?</div><div class=3D""><br =
data-mce-bogus=3D"1" class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thank =
you,</div><div class=3D"">-William</div><div class=3D"">1974 =
MGB</div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"">Donate: =
&nbsp;$12.75<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Archive: =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 13:36:03 -0400

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	The rear-brake question opens more questions.    MGBs had rear cyli=
nders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of cylinders and diffe=
rent back plates.    The roll pins located the cylinders in the correct back=
ing plates.
	Thus the questions arise:  Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders?=
 GT backplates and new Tourer cylinders?  Car modified before you got it?  W=
rong cylinders ordered/shipped?
	Having wrestled through this with my GT, it was years back and now I=
 do not recall which cylinders (size and pin location) are Tourer or GT.  So=
meone will know, though, and that challenge easily mastered.   GT cylinders a=
re larger, suited to the additional weight of GTs.  If you have to swap part=
s, do it the way MG built it=E2=80=94they got it right.=20
	As you replaced them years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped w=
rong cylinders.=20
	As to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal push=
ing has done fine for me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders o=
n this GT.  They are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/4 cu=
p of brake fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile.   If the rear brakes a=
re difficult to bleed, have a close look at the metal pipes on the axle.  A c=
ar that has been flat-bed carried may have had the straps wrapped around the=
 axle, crushing the tubes.  That=E2=80=99s not an unusual thing to find.
	Since you are changing hoses, have you changed clutch hose?  These b=
reak down internally whilst appearing fine externally. As you do the change,=
 do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducing a bubble into the line is a=
ltogether too easy, and bleeding the clutch line has made many an owner irat=
e.
Bob

> On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>=20
> Hello everyone,
>=20
> The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to r=
eplace everything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the=
 metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a cou=
ple of years before actually starting the project.
>=20
> So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably one of the m=
ore challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next step was working on t=
he rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty simple, but the issue=
 is with the wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and did=
n't have any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on them that does=
n't line up with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been too long t=
o try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any good anywa=
y because I don't recall that there were too many choices for that part. You=
 could get a cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that may be made i=
n England. I went with the cheaper one.
>=20
> Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another hol=
e in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of those D=
PO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain such a noti=
on anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The current wheel cyl=
inders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all new parts. The=
 front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there yet.
>=20
> The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes. I started to bl=
eed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known=
 less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's been a letdown f=
or several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem=
 too small for the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which causes th=
e tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seemed to barely be=
 able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have is that I am s=
ingle and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sources of help.=
 If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyon=
e have any advice on this topic?
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>The rear-bra=
ke question opens more questions. &nbsp; &nbsp;MGBs had rear cylinders to fi=
t the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of cylinders and different back p=
lates. &nbsp; &nbsp;The roll pins located the cylinders in the correct backi=
ng plates.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whi=
te-space:pre">	</span>Thus the questions arise: &nbsp;Tourer back plates a=
nd new GT cylinders? GT backplates and new Tourer cylinders? &nbsp;Car modif=
ied before you got it? &nbsp;Wrong cylinders ordered/shipped?</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Havi=
ng wrestled through this with my GT, it was years back and now I do not reca=
ll which cylinders (size and pin location) are Tourer or GT. &nbsp;Someone w=
ill know, though, and that challenge easily mastered. &nbsp; GT cylinders ar=
e larger, suited to the additional weight of GTs. &nbsp;If you have to swap p=
arts, do it the way MG built it=E2=80=94they got it right.&nbsp;</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan>As you replaced them years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped wrong c=
ylinders.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span>As to the bleeding, my experience has been t=
hat ordinary pedal pushing has done fine for me on many cars, though I did i=
nstall speed bleeders on this GT. &nbsp;They are an easy exchange and work O=
K, but the savings of 1/4 cup of brake fluid doing the job are hardly worthw=
hile. &nbsp; If the rear brakes are difficult to bleed, have a close look at=
 the metal pipes on the axle. &nbsp;A car that has been flat-bed carried may=
 have had the straps wrapped around the axle, crushing the tubes. &nbsp;That=
=E2=80=99s not an unusual thing to find.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Since you are changi=
ng hoses, have you changed clutch hose? &nbsp;These break down internally wh=
ilst appearing fine externally. As you do the change, do it swiftly, w/o int=
erruption, as introducing a bubble into the line is altogether too easy, and=
 bleeding the clutch line has made many an owner irate.</div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 23, 2021, a=
t 1:04 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> w=
rote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"=
font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000">=
<div>Hello everyone,</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>The car I=
'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to replace eve=
rything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the metal lin=
es. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a couple of yea=
rs before actually starting the project.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1">=
</div><div>So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably on=
e of the more challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next step was wo=
rking on the rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty simple, but=
 the issue is with the wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe twenty years a=
go and didn't have any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on them=
 that doesn't line up with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been=
 too long to try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any=
 good anyway because I don't recall that there were too many choices for tha=
t part. You could get a cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that ma=
y be made in England. I went with the cheaper one.</div><div><br data-mce-bo=
gus=3D"1"></div><div>Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probabl=
y drill another hole in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems=
 like one of those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to e=
ntertain such a notion anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. T=
he current wheel cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea o=
f all new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not ther=
e yet.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>The next question has t=
o do with bleeding the rear brakes. I started to bleed the brake furthest fr=
om the MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known less expensive (think sh=
ipping at a port) tool store. It's been a letdown for several reasons, among=
 them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem too small for the bleede=
r fittings that came with the tool, which causes the tool to draw a great de=
al of air through its system. I seemed to barely be able to get any fluid th=
rough the system. The trouble I have is that I am single and live alone, so I=
 don't have any readily available sources of help. If the brakes are going t=
o be bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyone have any advice on this t=
opic?</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Thank you,</div><div>-Wi=
lliam</div><div>1974 MGB</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>_______________________________________________<=
/span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Mgs@a=
utox.team.net</a></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/don=
ate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annu=
al donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><br><span></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a=
 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a></s=
pan><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net=
/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
/mgs/[email-masked]</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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