Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions

From: David Ambrose <[email-masked]> gAP9qbEHja082KH9EI0wD9GvOXkcYkP86JXxYKGOtMINPOiahbkIUZGf0s9Vj5+YyHjUbgc5OKTFTw==
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 11:33:50 -0700

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You have the wrong wheel cylinders. The GTs have a different (larger) 
rear brake cylinder than the roadsters. The roll pins are in different 
locations to prevent them from inadvertently getting swapped. I don't 
think you want to use the GT cylinders on a roadster as it would put too 
much braking in the rear which will make the car very tail happy under 
emergency braking.

Cheers,
Dave

On 10/23/2021 10:44 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
> Thank you for your reply.
> As far as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that there was a 
> choice as to whether they were for a GT or a roadster. The only choice 
> was either Lockheed brand (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for 
> less $. As far as I know, the back plates are original, but I've only 
> owned the car for 20 years. Its engine is not original, so who knows 
> what else could have been swapped.
> Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing? And how do 
> do pedal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?
> The fluid is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so no lines 
> are crimped. But thanks to the poor fitment of the bleeder thing with 
> the tool, I can't tell if the air bubbles are coming through the brake 
> lines or are air being drawn into the bleeder because the fitment 
> isn't good.
> Yes, I did the clutch system a couple or three years ago. It was a bit 
> frustrating, but seems ok now.
>
> Thank you,
> -William
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Robert's New iPad" <[email-masked]>
> *To: [email-masked]
> *Cc: [email-masked]
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 23, 2021 1:36:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions
>
> The rear-brake question opens more questions.    MGBs had rear 
> cylinders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of cylinders 
> and different back plates.    The roll pins located the cylinders in 
> the correct backing plates.
> Thus the questions arise:  Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders? GT 
> backplates and new Tourer cylinders?  Car modified before you got it? 
>  Wrong cylinders ordered/shipped?
> Having wrestled through this with my GT, it was years back and now I 
> do not recall which cylinders (size and pin location) are Tourer or 
> GT.  Someone will know, though, and that challenge easily mastered.   
> GT cylinders are larger, suited to the additional weight of GTs.  If 
> you have to swap parts, do it the way MG built it—they got it right.
> As you replaced them years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped 
> wrong cylinders.
> As to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal pushing 
> has done fine for me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders 
> on this GT.  They are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 
> 1/4 cup of brake fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile.   If the 
> rear brakes are difficult to bleed, have a close look at the metal 
> pipes on the axle.  A car that has been flat-bed carried may have had 
> the straps wrapped around the axle, crushing the tubes.  That’s not an 
> unusual thing to find.
> Since you are changing hoses, have you changed clutch hose?  These 
> break down internally whilst appearing fine externally. As you do the 
> change, do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducing a bubble into 
> the line is altogether too easy, and bleeding the clutch line has made 
> many an owner irate.
> Bob
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
>     Hello everyone,
>
>     The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I
>     wanted to replace everything relating to the brakes and their
>     hydraulics except for the metal lines. I ordered the parts from
>     Moss but had to sit on them for a couple of years before actually
>     starting the project.
>
>     So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably one
>     of the more challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next
>     step was working on the rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back
>     was pretty simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. I
>     replaced them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have any trouble.
>     But these new ones have a roller pin on them that doesn't line up
>     with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been too long to
>     try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any
>     good anyway because I don't recall that there were too many
>     choices for that part. You could get a cheaper aftermarket or a
>     more expensive part that may be made in England. I went with the
>     cheaper one.
>
>     Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill
>     another hole in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that
>     seems like one of those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I
>     should have to entertain such a notion anyway. The part should fit
>     and function correctly. The current wheel cylinders are probably
>     ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all new parts. The front
>     brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there yet.
>
>     The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes. I
>     started to bleed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum
>     tool I got at a well-known less expensive (think shipping at a
>     port) tool store. It's been a letdown for several reasons, among
>     them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem too small for
>     the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which causes the
>     tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seemed to
>     barely be able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I
>     have is that I am single and live alone, so I don't have any
>     readily available sources of help. If the brakes are going to be
>     bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyone have any advice on
>     this topic?
>
>     Thank you,
>     -William
>     1974 MGB
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     [email-masked]
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs
>     http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>     Unsubscribe:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
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    <p>You have the wrong wheel cylinders. The GTs have a different
      (larger) rear brake cylinder than the roadsters. The roll pins are
      in different locations to prevent them from inadvertently getting
      swapped. I don't think you want to use the GT cylinders on a
      roadster as it would put too much braking in the rear which will
      make the car very tail happy under emergency braking. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers,<br>
      Dave<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/23/2021 10:44 AM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
        12pt; color: #000000">
        <div>Thank you for your reply.</div>
        <div>As far as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that
          there was a choice as to whether they were for a GT or a
          roadster. The only choice was either Lockheed brand (maybe)
          for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far as I know,
          the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car for
          20 years. Its engine is not original, so who knows what else
          could have been swapped. </div>
        <div>Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing?
          And how do do pedal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?</div>
        <div>The fluid is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so
          no lines are crimped. But thanks to the poor fitment of the
          bleeder thing with the tool, I can't tell if the air bubbles
          are coming through the brake lines or are air being drawn into
          the bleeder because the fitment isn't good. </div>
        <div>Yes, I did the clutch system a couple or three years ago.
          It was a bit frustrating, but seems ok now.</div>
        <div><br data-mce-bogus="1">
        </div>
        <div>Thank you,</div>
        <div>-William</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__">
        <div data-marker="__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Robert's New iPad"
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
          <b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
          <b>Cc: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
          <b>Sent: </b>Saturday, October 23, 2021 1:36:03 PM<br>
          <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">
          <div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>The
            rear-brake question opens more questions.    MGBs had rear
            cylinders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of
            cylinders and different back plates.    The roll pins
            located the cylinders in the correct backing plates.</div>
          <div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>Thus
            the questions arise:  Tourer back plates and new GT
            cylinders? GT backplates and new Tourer cylinders?  Car
            modified before you got it?  Wrong cylinders
            ordered/shipped?</div>
          <div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>Having
            wrestled through this with my GT, it was years back and now
            I do not recall which cylinders (size and pin location) are
            Tourer or GT.  Someone will know, though, and that challenge
            easily mastered.   GT cylinders are larger, suited to the
            additional weight of GTs.  If you have to swap parts, do it
            the way MG built it—they got it right. </div>
          <div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>As
            you replaced them years ago, my bet is that the vendor
            shipped wrong cylinders. </div>
          <div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>As
            to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal
            pushing has done fine for me on many cars, though I did
            install speed bleeders on this GT.  They are an easy
            exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/4 cup of brake
            fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile.   If the rear
            brakes are difficult to bleed, have a close look at the
            metal pipes on the axle.  A car that has been flat-bed
            carried may have had the straps wrapped around the axle,
            crushing the tubes.  That’s not an unusual thing to find.</div>
          <div dir="ltr"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span>Since
            you are changing hoses, have you changed clutch hose?  These
            break down internally whilst appearing fine externally. As
            you do the change, do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as
            introducing a bubble into the line is altogether too easy,
            and bleeding the clutch line has made many an owner irate.</div>
          <div dir="ltr">Bob</div>
          <div dir="ltr"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="ltr"><br>
            On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, <a
              href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
              rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>
            wrote:<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <blockquote>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div style="font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' ,
                sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">
                <div>Hello everyone,</div>
                <br>
                <div>The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I
                  decided that I wanted to replace everything relating
                  to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the
                  metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to
                  sit on them for a couple of years before actually
                  starting the project.</div>
                <br>
                <div>So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which
                  is probably one of the more challenging things I've
                  ever done on the car. Next step was working on the
                  rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty
                  simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. I
                  replaced them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have
                  any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on
                  them that doesn't line up with the holes on the
                  brake's backing plate. It's been too long to try and
                  swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do
                  any good anyway because I don't recall that there were
                  too many choices for that part. You could get a
                  cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that may
                  be made in England. I went with the cheaper one.</div>
                <br>
                <div>Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could
                  probably drill another hole in the back plate to match
                  the roll pin, but that seems like one of those DPO
                  solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to
                  entertain such a notion anyway. The part should fit
                  and function correctly. The current wheel cylinders
                  are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all
                  new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda,
                  but we're not there yet.</div>
                <br>
                <div>The next question has to do with bleeding the rear
                  brakes. I started to bleed the brake furthest from the
                  MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known less
                  expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's
                  been a letdown for several reasons, among them that
                  the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem too small for
                  the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which
                  causes the tool to draw a great deal of air through
                  its system. I seemed to barely be able to get any
                  fluid through the system. The trouble I have is that I
                  am single and live alone, so I don't have any readily
                  available sources of help. If the brakes are going to
                  be bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyone have
                  any advice on this topic?</div>
                <br>
                <div>Thank you,</div>
                <div>-William</div>
                <div>1974 MGB</div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <blockquote>
            <div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
              <br>
              <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
              Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"
                target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
              Suggested annual donation  $12.75<br>
              <br>
              Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs"
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From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 18:41:53 -0400

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Hi William,
	Check out Abingdon Spares.  Much of their stock is Moss, but often t=
hey have other suppliers=E2=80=99 products, and everything they offer is goo=
d stuff.   Disclosure=E2=80=94Ed and Martin are friends, supporters of CT MG=
 Club, active drivers, and AS is 15 miles from here.
	If you did not specify GT wheel cylinders last time, I=E2=80=99m su=
re that supplier sent you Tourer cylinders, which are the ones you want.  Ri=
ng up Abingdon on Monday and get the ones you need. If you are holding the w=
rong ones in your hand, they can confirm what it is you have. =20
	Had a previous owner switched back plates to GT and used GT cylinde=
rs, you may have experienced premature rear-wheel lockup.  It=E2=80=99s not a=
n iffy thing=E2=80=94-you know when it happens, and it=E2=80=99s not a good e=
xperience.=20
	Have a look at speed bleeder site.  I am ambivalent about the thing=
s, though my friends love them.  Seems to me you still have to put a bleed h=
ose on the bleeder and watch the fluid coming out.   The thing that=E2=80=99=
s good about them is that they shut when pressure on the pedal is released, s=
o they don=E2=80=99t suck air.  When done, you snug them gently as you would=
 regular bleeders. =20
	I was working today on a Triumph Super Nine brakes, in my garage.  T=
he Mighty Vac didn=E2=80=99t seem all that mighty. We resorted to pedal pres=
sure, which worked better, but not great.  These 1932 Lockheed brakes (on an=
 English car, no less) are similar to our MGB rear brakes, but different in d=
etail. Cast aluminium shoes, for one, shoes linked at the bottom, not pivoti=
ng. The adjuster pushes the shoes apart near the top, where the double-side c=
ylinder expands. The bleed screw is minuscule, with a pin-hole orifice, and i=
t screws into an adapter that goes into the cylinders, adapter with two pin-=
hole orifices. Behind the adapter is a ball bearing. Huh?    We are cautious=
ly learning as we go, among other things learning that a tiny piece of rust b=
locks those fluid passages.  Master Cylinder is just back from White Post, s=
o it should be the one thing in the system that we can count on being right.=
   Look up Triumph Super Nine in Wikipedia.  This is the blue car with black=
 wings that is in the photo.  It may be the only one in USA.  Owner has dili=
gently scanned the internet for anything pertaining to the car. All the fact=
ory publications went up in smoke one night in 1940. =20
	Happy to read that the evil clutch work is done.  Brakes are a dodd=
le after that.
Bob

> On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:44 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>=20
> As far as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that there was a cho=
ice as to whether they were for a GT or a roadster. The only choice was eith=
er Lockheed brand (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far a=
s I know, the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car for 20 y=
ears. Its engine is not original, so who knows what else could have been swa=
pped.=20
> Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing? And how do do pe=
dal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?
> The fluid is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so no lines are cr=
imped. But thanks to the poor fitment of the bleeder thing with the tool, I c=
an't tell if the air bubbles are coming through the brake lines or are air b=
eing drawn into the bleeder because the fitment isn't good.=20
> Yes, I did the clutch system a couple or three years ago. It was a bit fru=
strating, but seems ok now.
>=20
> Thank you,
> -William
>=20
> From: "Robert's New iPad" <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 1:36:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions
>=20
> 	The rear-brake question opens more questions.    MGBs had rear cyli=
nders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of cylinders and diffe=
rent back plates.    The roll pins located the cylinders in the correct back=
ing plates.
> 	Thus the questions arise:  Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders?=
 GT backplates and new Tourer cylinders?  Car modified before you got it?  W=
rong cylinders ordered/shipped?
> 	Having wrestled through this with my GT, it was years back and now I=
 do not recall which cylinders (size and pin location) are Tourer or GT.  So=
meone will know, though, and that challenge easily mastered.   GT cylinders a=
re larger, suited to the additional weight of GTs.  If you have to swap part=
s, do it the way MG built it=E2=80=94they got it right.=20
> 	As you replaced them years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped w=
rong cylinders.=20
> 	As to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal push=
ing has done fine for me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders o=
n this GT.  They are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/4 cu=
p of brake fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile.   If the rear brakes a=
re difficult to bleed, have a close look at the metal pipes on the axle.  A c=
ar that has been flat-bed carried may have had the straps wrapped around the=
 axle, crushing the tubes.  That=E2=80=99s not an unusual thing to find.
> 	Since you are changing hoses, have you changed clutch hose?  These b=
reak down internally whilst appearing fine externally. As you do the change,=
 do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducing a bubble into the line is a=
ltogether too easy, and bleeding the clutch line has made many an owner irat=
e.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to r=
eplace everything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the=
 metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a cou=
ple of years before actually starting the project.
>=20
> So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably one of the m=
ore challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next step was working on t=
he rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty simple, but the issue=
 is with the wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and did=
n't have any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on them that does=
n't line up with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been too long t=
o try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any good anywa=
y because I don't recall that there were too many choices for that part. You=
 could get a cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that may be made i=
n England. I went with the cheaper one.
>=20
> Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another hol=
e in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of those D=
PO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain such a noti=
on anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The current wheel cyl=
inders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all new parts. The=
 front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there yet.
>=20
> The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes. I started to bl=
eed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known=
 less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's been a letdown f=
or several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem=
 too small for the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which causes th=
e tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seemed to barely be=
 able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have is that I am s=
ingle and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sources of help.=
 If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyon=
e have any advice on this topic?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi W=
illiam,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre">	</span>Check out Abingdon Spares. &nbsp;Much of their stock=
 is Moss, but often they have other suppliers=E2=80=99 products, and everyth=
ing they offer is good stuff. &nbsp; Disclosure=E2=80=94Ed and Martin are fr=
iends, supporters of CT MG Club, active drivers, and AS is 15 miles from her=
e.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span>If you did not specify GT wheel cylinders last time, I=E2=80=
=99m sure that supplier sent you Tourer cylinders, which are the ones you wa=
nt. &nbsp;Ring up Abingdon on Monday and get the ones you need. If you are h=
olding the wrong ones in your hand, they can confirm what it is you have. &n=
bsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span>Had a previous owner switched back plates to GT and u=
sed GT cylinders, you may have experienced premature rear-wheel lockup. &nbs=
p;It=E2=80=99s not an iffy thing=E2=80=94-you know when it happens, and it=E2=
=80=99s not a good experience.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Have a look at speed=
 bleeder site. &nbsp;I am ambivalent about the things, though my friends lov=
e them. &nbsp;Seems to me you still have to put a bleed hose on the bleeder a=
nd watch the fluid coming out. &nbsp; The thing that=E2=80=99s good about th=
em is that they shut when pressure on the pedal is released, so they don=E2=80=
=99t suck air. &nbsp;When done, you snug them gently as you would regular bl=
eeders. &nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span>I was working today on a Triumph Super Nine b=
rakes, in my garage. &nbsp;The Mighty Vac didn=E2=80=99t seem all that might=
y. We resorted to pedal pressure, which worked better, but not great. &nbsp;=
These 1932 Lockheed brakes (on an English car, no less) are similar to our M=
GB rear brakes, but different in detail. Cast aluminium shoes, for one, shoe=
s linked at the bottom, not pivoting. The adjuster pushes the shoes apart ne=
ar the top, where the double-side cylinder expands. The bleed screw is minus=
cule, with a pin-hole orifice, and it screws into an adapter that goes into t=
he cylinders, adapter with two pin-hole orifices. Behind the adapter is a ba=
ll bearing. Huh? &nbsp; &nbsp;We are cautiously learning as we go, among oth=
er things learning that a tiny piece of rust blocks those fluid passages. &n=
bsp;Master Cylinder is just back from White Post, so it should be the one th=
ing in the system that we can count on being right. &nbsp; Look up Triumph S=
uper Nine in Wikipedia. &nbsp;This is the blue car with black wings that is i=
n the photo. &nbsp;It may be the only one in USA. &nbsp;Owner has diligently=
 scanned the internet for anything pertaining to the car. All the factory pu=
blications went up in smoke one night in 1940. &nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Happ=
y to read that the evil clutch work is done. &nbsp;Brakes are a doddle after=
 that.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br>On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:44 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font=
-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>Thank you for your reply.</div><div>As far=
 as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that there was a choice as t=
o whether they were for a GT or a roadster. The only choice was either Lockh=
eed brand (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far as I know=
, the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car for 20 years. It=
s engine is not original, so who knows what else could have been swapped.&nb=
sp;</div><div>Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing? And h=
ow do do pedal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?</div><div>The fluid=
 is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so no lines are crimped. But t=
hanks to the poor fitment of the bleeder thing with the tool, I can't tell i=
f the air bubbles are coming through the brake lines or are air being drawn i=
nto the bleeder because the fitment isn't good.&nbsp;</div><div>Yes, I did t=
he clutch system a couple or three years ago. It was a bit frustrating, but s=
eems ok now.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Thank you,</div><=
div>-William</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__=
"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Robert's New iPad" &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Sent: </b>S=
aturday, October 23, 2021 1:36:03 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Mgs] MGB rear b=
rake questions<br></div><div><br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>The rear-brake question opens more questions=
. &nbsp; &nbsp;MGBs had rear cylinders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, diffe=
rent sizes of cylinders and different back plates. &nbsp; &nbsp;The roll pin=
s located the cylinders in the correct backing plates.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Thus=
 the questions arise: &nbsp;Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders? GT back=
plates and new Tourer cylinders? &nbsp;Car modified before you got it? &nbsp=
;Wrong cylinders ordered/shipped?</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Having wrestled through this=
 with my GT, it was years back and now I do not recall which cylinders (size=
 and pin location) are Tourer or GT. &nbsp;Someone will know, though, and th=
at challenge easily mastered. &nbsp; GT cylinders are larger, suited to the a=
dditional weight of GTs. &nbsp;If you have to swap parts, do it the way MG b=
uilt it=E2=80=94they got it right.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>As you replaced them=
 years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped wrong cylinders.&nbsp;</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=
	</span>As to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal pushi=
ng has done fine for me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders on=
 this GT. &nbsp;They are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/=
4 cup of brake fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile. &nbsp; If the rear=
 brakes are difficult to bleed, have a close look at the metal pipes on the a=
xle. &nbsp;A car that has been flat-bed carried may have had the straps wrap=
ped around the axle, crushing the tubes. &nbsp;That=E2=80=99s not an unusual=
 thing to find.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span>Since you are changing hoses, have you chang=
ed clutch hose? &nbsp;These break down internally whilst appearing fine exte=
rnally. As you do the change, do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducin=
g a bubble into the line is altogether too easy, and bleeding the clutch lin=
e has made many an owner irate.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, <a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noref=
errer">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:=
12pt;color:#000000"><div>Hello everyone,</div><br><div>The car I'm working o=
n is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to replace everything rela=
ting to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the metal lines. I ordere=
d the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a couple of years before ac=
tually starting the project.</div><br><div>So, I got the new master cylinder=
 installed, which is probably one of the more challenging things I've ever d=
one on the car. Next step was working on the rear brakes. The rubber hose in=
 the back was pretty simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. I re=
placed them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have any trouble. But these ne=
w ones have a roller pin on them that doesn't line up with the holes on the b=
rake's backing plate. It's been too long to try and swap them with Moss, and=
 I'm not sure that would do any good anyway because I don't recall that ther=
e were too many choices for that part. You could get a cheaper aftermarket o=
r a more expensive part that may be made in England. I went with the cheaper=
 one.</div><br><div>Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably=
 drill another hole in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems l=
ike one of those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to ent=
ertain such a notion anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The=
 current wheel cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of a=
ll new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there y=
et.</div><br><div>The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes.=
 I started to bleed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got=
 at a well-known less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's b=
een a letdown for several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the wheel=
 cylinders seem too small for the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, w=
hich causes the tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seeme=
d to barely be able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have i=
s that I am single and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sou=
rces of help. If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by mysel=
f. Does anyone have any advice on this topic?</div><br><div>Thank you,</div>=
<div>-William</div><div>1974 MGB</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote><=
div dir=3D"ltr">_______________________________________________<br><br><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener n=
oreferrer">[email-masked]</a><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://w=
ww.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<br><br=
>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a h=
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ptions/mgs/[email-masked]</a></div></blockquote><br></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: PaulHunt73 <[email-masked]> fnm9DDHkZ2Q55iUTxG61eTz/AFgqEhanULxQt6kbH9/A6JVR/VnQEED4bez3MDnW3ymXirzdw8skm6eFIiZt5xaYJa02C82ltGMjr12dH1En2rDqnY/V3vkN rexaD29unPQaj7Bcc9dY+g==
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:57:29 +0100

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The GT originally had the same wheel cylinders as the roadster, changing 
in May 68 for the larger item which can take more braking effort without 
locking up in the wet.  Incidentally the factory V8 used the smaller 
ones, presumably because with the harder springs there was more chance 
of locking up over bumps.  You are unlikely to notice the difference on 
dry tarmac.  Rather than describe them the two types can be seen here 
http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/brakecyl.htm#3

The purpose of Speedbleeders is to allow single-handed pedal bleeding of 
hydraulic systems, but they are pretty expensive for what they are and 
the number of times they are used.   They contain a spring-loaded valve 
which is normally bolted down tight, but when bleeding you slacken them 
off so that only the spring is keeping the valve closed.  Then when you 
press on the pedal fluid pressure opens the valve to let air/fluid out, 
and when releasing the pedal they close again to stop air going back 
in.  I've always used EeziBleed.

Regardless of which method you use to get air out I've always found that 
after low pressure bleeding they are spongy and it needs to be done with 
high pressure that does need two people. One presses down on the pedal 
as hard as they can while the other rapidly opens and closes each 
caliper nipple in turn, which always blasts a bit more air out, after 
that they are fine.  The front of the car needs to be a bit higher than 
the rear as well.

PaulH.

> frustrating, but seems ok now.
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    <p>The GT originally had the same wheel cylinders as the roadster,
      changing in May 68 for the larger item which can take more braking
      effort without locking up in the wet.  Incidentally the factory V8
      used the smaller ones, presumably because with the harder springs
      there was more chance of locking up over bumps.  You are unlikely
      to notice the difference on dry tarmac.  Rather than describe them
      the two types can be seen here
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/brakecyl.htm#3">http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/brakecyl.htm#3</a></p>
    <p>The purpose of Speedbleeders is to allow single-handed pedal
      bleeding of hydraulic systems, but they are pretty expensive for
      what they are and the number of times they are used.   They
      contain a spring-loaded valve which is normally bolted down tight,
      but when bleeding you slacken them off so that only the spring is
      keeping the valve closed.  Then when you press on the pedal fluid
      pressure opens the valve to let air/fluid out, and when releasing
      the pedal they close again to stop air going back in.  I've always
      used EeziBleed.</p>
    <p>Regardless of which method you use to get air out I've always
      found that after low pressure bleeding they are spongy and it
      needs to be done with high pressure that does need two people. 
      One presses down on the pedal as hard as they can while the other
      rapidly opens and closes each caliper nipple in turn, which always
      blasts a bit more air out, after that they are fine.  The front of
      the car needs to be a bit higher than the rear as well.<br>
    </p>
    <p>PaulH.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/10/2021 18:44,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
        12pt; color: #000000">As far as the type of wheel cylinders, I
        don't recall that there was a choice as to whether they were for
        a GT or a roadster. The only choice was either Lockheed brand
        (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far as I
        know, the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car
        for 20 years. Its engine is not original, so who knows what else
        could have been swapped. 
        <div>Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing?
          And how do do pedal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?</div>
        <div>The fluid is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so
          no lines are crimped. But thanks to the poor fitment of the
          bleeder thing with the tool, I can't tell if the air bubbles
          are coming through the brake lines or are air being drawn into
          the bleeder because the fitment isn't good. </div>
        <div>Yes, I did the clutch system a couple or three years ago.
          It was a bit frustrating, but seems ok now.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
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From: "dave" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:35:30 -0500

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http://speedbleeder.com/

=20

many of us usually work in the garage alone.  Speedbleeders are =
fantastic!  Brakes and clutch, allows you to just bleed them.  You =
probably want to use a hose to guide the drippings; otherwise you get =
brake fluid sprayed around.  I can=E2=80=99t believe someone said they =
are expensive.  Really?  Less than $10 a pair last time I bought them.  =
Given the time and effort and money we put into these vehicles?????  My =
wife loves them; bleeding was not a favorite activity of hers.

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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
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xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" =
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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://speedbleeder.com/">http://speedbleeder.com/</a><o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>many =
of us usually work in the garage alone.=C2=A0 Speedbleeders are =
fantastic!=C2=A0 Brakes and clutch, allows you to just bleed them.=C2=A0 =
You probably want to use a hose to guide the drippings; otherwise you =
get brake fluid sprayed around.=C2=A0 I can=E2=80=99t believe someone =
said they are expensive.=C2=A0 Really?=C2=A0 Less than $10 a pair last =
time I bought them.=C2=A0 Given the time and effort and money we put =
into these vehicles?????=C2=A0 My wife loves them; bleeding was not a =
favorite activity of hers.<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 18:28:33 -0400

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Hi Dave,
	The reader who commented that they were expensive is in the UK, whe=
re they usually pay in =C2=A3 what we pay in $$.    When I see the adverts f=
rom Halfords and other places that might be equivalent to our NAPA stores, I=
 feel bad that it costs so much more to support an MG habit in their home ma=
rket.
Bob

> On Oct 24, 2021, at 11:35 AM, dave <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> http://speedbleeder.com/
> =20
> many of us usually work in the garage alone.  Speedbleeders are fantastic!=
  Brakes and clutch, allows you to just bleed them.  You probably want to us=
e a hose to guide the drippings; otherwise you get brake fluid sprayed aroun=
d.  I can=E2=80=99t believe someone said they are expensive.  Really?  Less t=
han $10 a pair last time I bought them.  Given the time and effort and money=
 we put into these vehicles?????  My wife loves them; bleeding was not a fav=
orite activity of hers.

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi D=
ave,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span>The reader who commented that they were expensive is=
 in the UK, where they usually pay in =C2=A3 what we pay in $$. &nbsp; &nbsp=
;When I see the adverts from Halfords and other places that might be equival=
ent to our NAPA stores, I feel bad that it costs so much more to support an M=
G habit in their home market.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 24, 2021, at 11:35 AM, dave &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type=
" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D=
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><a href=3D"http://speedbleeder.com/">http://speedbleeder.com/</a><o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">many of us usually work in the garage alone.&nbsp; Speedbleeders are fan=
tastic!&nbsp; Brakes and clutch, allows you to just bleed them.&nbsp; You pr=
obably want to use a hose to guide the drippings; otherwise you get brake fl=
uid sprayed around.&nbsp; I can=E2=80=99t believe someone said they are expe=
nsive.&nbsp; Really?&nbsp; Less than $10 a pair last time I bought them.&nbs=
p; Given the time and effort and money we put into these vehicles?????&nbsp;=
 My wife loves them; bleeding was not a favorite activity of hers.<o:p></o:p=
></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><sp=
an>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span><b=
r><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><=
br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team=
.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<=
/span><br><span></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pip=
ermail/mgs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.te=
am.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br=
><span>Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgb=
[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]</a=
></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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