Subject: [Mgs] 1975 MGB Starter Motor

From: Mark Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 08:18:14 -0400

My new starter motor arrived. It looks like it will be a lot easier to 
get this one back in place.  Here are a couple of pics to show the 
difference in size.

https://www.mediafire.com/view/y8sxmfctchksp3x/DSCN3677.JPG/file

https://www.mediafire.com/view/1usnjxpgee8x1qs/DSCN3681.JPG/file

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From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 08:51:59 -0400

Did you happen to weigh the two?   To judge by size, weight of the new one could be a bit over half that of original.
   Let us know how installation goes, and how the new device works.
Bob

> On Sep 1, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Mark Robinson <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> My new starter motor arrived. It looks like it will be a lot easier to get this one back in place.  Here are a couple of pics to show the difference in size.
> 
> 
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From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 13:36:50 +0100 iSND8DjmUzE22tVqSZV7SF72PABVKwP/0vEkQxL2JPEwxsIOiR3XUFzzrWtQJUjOOypv6/oaBakt+Q2pw23abQNkNtXIJ2c4SVOipPkrv6EWM7/hc9gCGQlR

That's the geared type, very quiet as well as lighter, faster cranking and 
less battery load.  They don't usually have the solenoid bypass terminal for 
ballasted ignition systems (assumed as yours is a 75).  With less load on 
the battery i.e. more cranking voltage it probably won't need it, but there 
are several ways to retrofit it.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

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From: Mark Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 10:13:02 -0400

I will weigh them tomorrow and report back.

Paul..the new motor  comes with a y control cable going to one spade 
connector on the new motor.  One wire (red)  has a diode  which supplies 
the 12v to the coil when cranking. It goes to the green white wire.  The 
diode prevents the ballasted 12v from the coil from backfeeding the 
starter motor solenoid. The other wire (black)  goes to the brown white 
starter relay wire.  It is described here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ9TQYfliLI

Mark

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From: Mark Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 10:16:28 -0400

I cut through the metal part of the clutch  flexible hose with a 4 inch 
cut off wheel just below the chassis bracket. I put a 6 point socket on 
the lower nut and an open wrench ended on the nut above the chassis 
bracket and used my impact driver. Unfortunately the open ended wrench 
slipped and  the steel pipe rotated and broke off. I don't think it was 
coming off anyway. At least I got the remains of the flexible hose off 
and the bracket is clear now.  It could have been a lot worse. I think 
the Kroil helped a lot. The threads look ok.

https://mossmotors.com/clutch-system

Removed 19. 21 and 22. Now to replace 33. I have to empty the garage and 
lower the MG. I will do that tomorrow when it won't rain on the stuff 
outside. I am glad the rusty stuff is removed. Nice to have the impact 
driver , 6 point sockets and powerful impact wrench. I used 20 mm 
sockets.Probably could have used an AF but 20mm fitted well

Mark

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From: Mark Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 10:28:33 -0400

I went out and weighed the two starter motors with an accurate set of 
A/C scales

1975 Original Lucas starter     15.910 pounds
WOSP LMS001                           8.130 pounds

[email-masked]

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From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 15:40:49 +0100 56BS9PEcUHU/1RCOciiIyOZirMII2pPnzNEn6dajK4Z6h5m8U1g1K2eD8bJAtq5MYoAJYDFshbyLTFcmkCkVTBPk7Z6KVayydsmUq/ggiYSVf6neTQbfPRL7 yYVxGwPE9MB+RYl3tzmtNw==

Yes, a diode is one of the ways of retaining the ballast bypass function, it 
prevents the solenoid shunting almost all the current away from the coil. 
Are the wires on that sub-harness bare-ended?  They look it, instead of 
putting female spade connectors there and making it plug-compatible.  I 
really don't like the style of their videos.

----- Original Message ----- 
> connector on the new motor. One wire (red) has a diode which supplies the 
> 12v to the coil when cranking. It goes to the green white wire. The diode 
> prevents the ballasted 12v from the coil from backfeeding the starter 
> motor solenoid. The other wire (black) goes to the brown white starter 
> relay wire. It is described here.

[email-masked]

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From: Mark Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 09:21:00 -0400

I have the new 1/4 inch metal clutch hydraulic line bent and offered up. 
The pipe is about 6 or 9 inches too long. I am going to cut it back and 
reflare it to get a proper fit.

Is there anything special about the flare angle, fitting etc that I 
should know ?  I haven't made brake pipes before.

thanks Mark

[email-masked]

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From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 10:28:15 -0400

I will defer to Paul’s expertise about this.
    The pipe I bought from Moss was spot-on for length.
     The flare used on UK cars may be different to that flare used in USA, and I believe that the flare used was changed during the 1970s.   Time for research.
Bob

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 9:21 AM, Mark Robinson <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> I have the new 1/4 inch metal clutch hydraulic line bent and offered up. The pipe is about 6 or 9 inches too long. I am going to cut it back and reflare it to get a proper fit.
> 
> Is there anything special about the flare angle, fitting etc that I should know ?  I haven't made brake pipes before.
> 
> 
> thanks Mark

[email-masked]

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From: Charles Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 10:51:39 -0500

Yikes!  Brute-force shade tree mechanic.

CR

On 9/1/2021 9:16 AM, Mark Robinson wrote:
> I cut through the metal part of the clutch  flexible hose with a 4 
> inch cut off wheel just below the chassis bracket. I put a 6 point 
> socket on the lower nut and an open wrench ended on the nut above the 
> chassis bracket and used my impact driver. Unfortunately the open 
> ended wrench slipped and  the steel pipe rotated and broke off. I 
> don't think it was coming off anyway. At least I got the remains of 
> the flexible hose off and the bracket is clear now.  It could have 
> been a lot worse. I think the Kroil helped a lot. The threads look ok.
>
>
> Removed 19. 21 and 22. Now to replace 33. I have to empty the garage 
> and lower the MG. I will do that tomorrow when it won't rain on the 
> stuff outside. I am glad the rusty stuff is removed. Nice to have the 
> impact driver , 6 point sockets and powerful impact wrench. I used 20 
> mm sockets.Probably could have used an AF but 20mm fitted well
>
> Mark
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 17:00:27 +0100 ly3l5XkDQxeuioYq2HA45ROSmF3PmBRYDfxIGNXfDALMEHnlqIRR8rBeopGyAW/NvfKnh5Wqv+q8ABFSpMCRkP/D6RikCOC2+HqBY9Z2ur1sl0oAsR0HAKk4 tZ/Z9EeoxH8NBKSeTyTc+g==

Indeed, there were two different flares for brake pipes at least.  I think I 
would be inclined to 'lose' the excess, or contact Moss.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
    The pipe I bought from Moss was spot-on for length.
     The flare used on UK cars may be different to that flare used in USA, 
and I believe that the flare used was changed during the 1970s.   Time for 
research.

[email-masked]

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From: Max Heim <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 09:10:42 -0700

Why not just bend a neat strain relief loop?

--
Max Heim
[email-masked]

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 9:00 AM, PaulHunt73 <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Indeed, there were two different flares for brake pipes at least.  I think I would be inclined to 'lose' the excess, or contact Moss.
> 
> PaulH.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----    The pipe I bought from Moss was spot-on for length.

[email-masked]

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From: Barney Gaylord <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2021 12:32:20 -0400

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Someone has a problem with different length pipe and/or different 
flares.  All MGA (except Twin Cam) and all MGB use the same clutch 
pipe, clutch hose, and clutch slave cylinder and slave 
pushrod.  There was only one pipe length (but shorter for RHD) and 
only one flare type, never changed.

Some early production MGA had different slave cylinder with side 
input port and a banjo fitting, but the later cylinder can be 
installed and delete the banjo fitting.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.com

> > Indeed, there were two different flares for brake pipes at 
> least.  I think I would be inclined to 'lose' the excess, or contact Moss.
> >
> > PaulH.

> >    The flare used on UK cars may be different to that flare used 
> in USA, and I believe that the flare used was changed during the 
> 1970s.   Time for research.
> > ....

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<html>
<body>
<font size=3><br>
Someone has a problem with different length pipe and/or different
flares.&nbsp; All MGA (except Twin Cam) and all MGB use the same clutch
pipe, clutch hose, and clutch slave cylinder and slave pushrod.&nbsp;
There was only one pipe length (but shorter for RHD) and only one flare
type, never changed.<br><br>
Some early production MGA had different slave cylinder with side input
port and a banjo fitting, but the later cylinder can be installed and
delete the banjo fitting.<br><br>
Barney Gaylord<br>
1958 MGA with an attitude<br>
<a href="http://mgaguru.com/" eudora="autourl">http://MGAguru.com<br><br>
<br>
</a>At 12:10 PM 9/3/2021, Max Heim wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Why not just bend a neat strain
relief loop?<br>
--<br>
Max Heim<br>
[email-masked]</blockquote><br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">&gt; On Sep 2, 2021, at 9:00 AM,
PaulHunt73 &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Indeed, there were two different flares for brake pipes at
least.&nbsp; I think I would be inclined to 'lose' the excess, or contact
Moss.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; PaulH.</blockquote><br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">&gt; ----- Original Message
-----&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The pipe I bought from Moss was spot-on for
length.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The flare used on UK cars may be different to that
flare used in USA, and I believe that the flare used was changed during
the 1970s.&nbsp;&nbsp; Time for research.<br>
&gt; ....</font></blockquote></body>
</html>

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