Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 168, Issue 3

From: Joel Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 20:22:46 +0000 (UTC)

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 Moss rear springs lasted about 60K miles. =C2=A0Got a pair from buddy on a=
 car with only 55K miles a few years ago. =C2=A0Back to normal. =C2=A0I hav=
e about 235K miles on car. =C2=A0Find someone to make or rear arch your ori=
ginal springs.
=C2=A0The stuff today is just junk.
    On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 02:01:32 PM EDT, [email-masked] <m=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Send Mgs mailing list submissions to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 1. Re: Ride height (Barrie Robinson)
=C2=A0 2. Re: Ride height (PaulHunt73)
=C2=A0 3. Re: Ride height (Barney Gaylord)
=C2=A0 4. Re: Ride height (PaulHunt73)
  Hello Paul,
=20
 I got my local Brit car shop to fit springs all round as I had a serious c=
ase of unequal saggynitis.=C2=A0=C2=A0 They got them from Moss and all is p=
erfectly fine now.
=20
 Cheers
 Barrie
=20
 On 5/3/2021 11:24 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
 =20
 The high rear end after spring replacement is common and is part of the 't=
oo hard' thing needing extra weight in the boot to get the rebound straps f=
astened. =C2=A0 Personally I wouldn't jack up the front to match the rear, =
people spend inordinate amounts of time and money trying to lower MGBs!=C2=
=A0 What you could try is lowering=C2=A0'blocks' between the axle and the s=
prings, as used=C2=A0with parabolic springs, but may need longer U-bolts. =
=C2=A0 Even with new OEM rears my CB roadster was too low when fully laden,=
 bottoming and grounding in country lanes, I ended up extending the rear sh=
ackles. =C2=A0 PaulH.=20
 ----- Original Message -----  3 years ago I got an MOT safety test fail on=
 the sagged rear springs, so these were replaced. =20
>From that moment on the car looks a bit like a dragster with the rear highe=
r than the front.
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
So I should look for replacement front coils.
=20
=C2=A0
 =20
=20
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=20
=20
  The lower mounting point for the rebound strap on=C2=A0an MGB (the car th=
at was the subject of the original enquiry) is on the axle.=C2=A0 So when y=
ou=C2=A0fit lowering blocks the body becomes lower relative to the axle and=
=C2=A0the rebound straps become slacker not more taut.=C2=A0 The bump rubbe=
r on the body is now also=C2=A0closer to the pedestal on the axle, so the d=
amper can't be 'compressed' any more than it was before.=C2=A0 And with the=
 same straps=C2=A0the damper=C2=A0can't be extended any more=C2=A0than prev=
iously either.=C2=A0Incorrect springs that give a very raised ride height m=
ay well cause the problem of picking up a rear tyre in a fast turn, but low=
ering blocks will reduce or eliminate that.=C2=A0PaulH.=C2=A0----- Original=
 Message -----=20
=20
Lowering blocks raise the rear axle in relation to the springs, but do not =
change the spring height in relation to the body or chassis frame.=C2=A0 Yo=
u can correct the ride height that way, but it will not correct the gross m=
isalignment for the rebound straps (which are attached to the lower spring =
mounting plate).

If the rebould straps are close to taught when at rest, they you will be ro=
yally screwed on handling when driving.=C2=A0 It will pick a rear tire comp=
letely off the ground in a fast turn, causing severe oversteer (very danger=
ous condition).=C2=A0 And if you install longer rebound straps, you will ge=
t damage to the lever arm shocks from overtravel.
=20
=20
   =20
      - =C2=A0

Yeah, good point.=C2=A0 Sorry about the slip up.=C2=A0 Iforgot the lower pi=
n for the rebound strap is on the axlehousing.

Still no excuse for new replacement springs being manufactured with toomuch=
 arch (and too high spring rate).=C2=A0 Theory of a leaf spring isthat when=
 fully loaded it should be straight, flat, no arch.=C2=A0 Thisgives it the =
highest lateral stiffness and least tendency to twist andmisalign the sprin=
gs and axle in hard cornering.=C2=A0 It just rubs methe wrong way to have t=
o jury rig an perfectly good assembly toaccommodate use of a faulty replace=
ment part.

At 03:32 AM 5/4/2021, PaulHunt73 wrote:

The lowermounting point for the rebound strap on an MGB (the car that was t=
hesubject of the original enquiry) is on the axle.=C2=A0 So when you fitlow=
ering blocks the body becomes lower relative to the axle and therebound str=
aps become slacker not more taut.=C2=A0 The bump rubber on thebody is now a=
lso closer to the pedestal on the axle, so the damper can'tbe 'compressed' =
any more than it was before.=C2=A0 And with the samestraps the damper can't=
 be extended any more than previously either.
=C2=A0
Incorrect springs that give a very raised ride heightmay well cause the pro=
blem of picking up a rear tyre in a fast turn, butlowering blocks will redu=
ce or eliminate that.
=C2=A0
PaulH.

----- OriginalMessage -----=20
  =20
      - Lowering blocks raise the rear axle in relation to the springs, but=
do not change the spring height in relation to the body or chassisframe.=C2=
=A0 You can correct the ride height that way, but it will notcorrect the gr=
oss misalignment for the rebound straps (which are attachedto the lower spr=
ing mounting plate).  =20
  =20

      - If the rebould straps are close to taught when at rest, they you wi=
llbe royally screwed on handling when driving.=C2=A0 It will pick a reartir=
e completely off the ground in a fast turn, causing severe oversteer(very d=
angerous condition).=C2=A0 And if you install longer reboundstraps, you wil=
l get damage to the lever arm shocks from overtravel.

 Amen to that!
 ----- Original Message ----- Still no excuse for new replacement springs b=
eing manufactured with too much arch (and too high spring rate).=C2=A0 Theo=
ry of a leaf spring is that when fully loaded it should be straight, flat, =
no arch.=C2=A0 This gives it the highest lateral stiffness and least tenden=
cy to twist and misalign the springs and axle in hard cornering.=C2=A0 It j=
ust rubs me the wrong way to have to jury rig an perfectly good assembly to=
 accommodate use of a faulty replacement part.
=20
   =20
      - =C2=A0

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpc939c689yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div></div>
        <div>Moss rear springs lasted about 60K miles. &nbsp;Got a pair fro=
m buddy on a car with only 55K miles a few years ago. &nbsp;Back to normal.=
 &nbsp;I have about 235K miles on car. &nbsp;Find someone to make or rear a=
rch your original springs.</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;The stuff today i=
s just junk.</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        <div id=3D"ydpc939c689yahoo_quoted_0189821553" class=3D"ydpc939c689=
yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 02:01:32 PM EDT, mgs-request@a=
utox.team.net &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">Send Mgs mailing list submissions to<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br></div>=
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ef=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.team.net/forums</a><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br>&nbsp;  1. Re: Ride =
height (Barrie Robinson)<br>&nbsp;  2. Re: Ride height (PaulHunt73)<br>&nbs=
p;  3. Re: Ride height (Barney Gaylord)<br>&nbsp;  4. Re: Ride height (Paul=
Hunt73)<br><div id=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg84471" class=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg0050191=
509"><div id=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    <font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Arial">Hello Paul,<br>
        <br>
        I got my local Brit car shop to fit springs all round as I had a
        serious case of unequal saggynitis.&nbsp;&nbsp; They got them from =
Moss
        and all is perfectly fine now.<br>
        <br>
        Cheers<br>
        Barrie<br>
      </font></font><br>
    <div class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949moz-cite-prefix">On 5/3/2021 11:2=
4 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
     =20
     =20
     =20
     =20
      <div><font size=3D"2">The high rear end after spring replacement is
          common and is part of the 'too hard' thing needing extra
          weight in the boot to get the rebound straps fastened.</font></di=
v>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font size=3D"2">Personally I wouldn't jack up the front to
          match the rear, people spend inordinate amounts of time and
          money trying to lower MGBs!&nbsp; What you could try is
          lowering&nbsp;'blocks' between the axle and the springs, as
          used&nbsp;with parabolic springs, but may need longer U-bolts.</f=
ont></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font size=3D"2">Even with new OEM rears my CB roadster was too
          low when fully laden, bottoming and grounding in country
          lanes, I ended up extending the rear shackles.</font></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></div>
      <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;P=
ADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;" dir=3D"ltr">
        <div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch=
: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;">----- =
Original Message ----- </div>
        <div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch=
: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; backgro=
und-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; backgr=
ound-repeat: initial initial;"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">3 years ago I got an MO=
T safety test
            fail on the sagged rear springs, so these were replaced.</span>=
</div>=20
        <div class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949WordSection1">
          <p class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B">From that moment on
              the car looks a bit like a dragster with the rear higher
              than the front.</span></p>=20
          <p class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B"> &nbsp;</span></p>=20
          <p class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B">So I should look for
              replacement front coils.</span></p>=20
          <p class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949mimeAttachmentHeader"></fi=
eldset>
      <pre class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949moz-quote-pre">________________=
_______________________________

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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

</div></div><div id=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg59667" class=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg005019=
1509"><div id=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949">

=20
=20

<div>
<div><font size=3D"2">The lower mounting point for the rebound strap on&nbs=
p;an MGB=20
(the car that was the subject of the original enquiry) is on the axle.&nbsp=
; So=20
when you&nbsp;fit lowering blocks the body becomes lower relative to the ax=
le=20
and&nbsp;the rebound straps become slacker not more taut.&nbsp; The bump ru=
bber=20
on the body is now also&nbsp;closer to the pedestal on the axle, so the dam=
per=20
can't be 'compressed' any more than it was before.&nbsp; And with the same=
=20
straps&nbsp;the damper&nbsp;can't be extended any more&nbsp;than previously=
=20
either.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Incorrect springs that give a very raised ride height=
 may well=20
cause the problem of picking up a rear tyre in a fast turn, but lowering bl=
ocks=20
will reduce or eliminate that.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING=
-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;" dir=3D"ltr">
  <div><font size=3D"2"></font><font size=3D"2"></font><br></div><font size=
=3D"3">Lowering=20
  blocks raise the rear axle in relation to the springs, but do not change =
the=20
  spring height in relation to the body or chassis frame.&nbsp; You can cor=
rect=20
  the ride height that way, but it will not correct the gross misalignment =
for=20
  the rebound straps (which are attached to the lower spring mounting=20
  plate).<br><br>If the rebould straps are close to taught when at rest, th=
ey=20
  you will be royally screwed on handling when driving.&nbsp; It will pick =
a=20
  rear tire completely off the ground in a fast turn, causing severe overst=
eer=20
  (very dangerous condition).&nbsp; And if you install longer rebound strap=
s,=20
  you will get damage to the lever arm shocks from overtravel.<br></font>
  <blockquote class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949cite" type=3D"cite">
    <blockquote class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949cite" type=3D"cite">
      <dl>
        <dd><font size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</dd></dl></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote></div>
</div></div><div id=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg06104" class=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg005019=
1509"><div id=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949">
<div>
<font size=3D"3">Yeah, good point.&nbsp; Sorry about the slip up.&nbsp; I
forgot the lower pin for the rebound strap is on the axle
housing.<br><br>
Still no excuse for new replacement springs being manufactured with too
much arch (and too high spring rate).&nbsp; Theory of a leaf spring is
that when fully loaded it should be straight, flat, no arch.&nbsp; This
gives it the highest lateral stiffness and least tendency to twist and
misalign the springs and axle in hard cornering.&nbsp; It just rubs me
the wrong way to have to jury rig an perfectly good assembly to
accommodate use of a faulty replacement part.<br><br>
<br>
At 03:32 AM 5/4/2021, PaulHunt73 wrote:<br>
</font><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949cite"><fo=
nt size=3D"2">The lower
mounting point for the rebound strap on an MGB (the car that was the
subject of the original enquiry) is on the axle.&nbsp; So when you fit
lowering blocks the body becomes lower relative to the axle and the
rebound straps become slacker not more taut.&nbsp; The bump rubber on the
body is now also closer to the pedestal on the axle, so the damper can't
be 'compressed' any more than it was before.&nbsp; And with the same
straps the damper can't be extended any more than previously either.<br>
</font><font size=3D"3">&nbsp;<br>
</font><font size=3D"2">Incorrect springs that give a very raised ride heig=
ht
may well cause the problem of picking up a rear tyre in a fast turn, but
lowering blocks will reduce or eliminate that.<br>
</font><font size=3D"3">&nbsp;<br>
</font><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></blockquote><br><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949cite"><font size=
=3D"3">----- Original
Message ----- <br>
</font>
<dl>
<dd>Lowering blocks raise the rear axle in relation to the springs, but
do not change the spring height in relation to the body or chassis
frame.&nbsp; You can correct the ride height that way, but it will not
correct the gross misalignment for the rebound straps (which are attached
to the lower spring mounting plate).<br><br>

</dd><dd>If the rebould straps are close to taught when at rest, they you w=
ill
be royally screwed on handling when driving.&nbsp; It will pick a rear
tire completely off the ground in a fast turn, causing severe oversteer
(very dangerous condition).&nbsp; And if you install longer rebound
straps, you will get damage to the lever arm shocks from overtravel.
</dd></dl></blockquote></div>

</div></div><div id=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg41407" class=3D"ydpc939c689ymsg005019=
1509"><div id=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949">

=20
=20

<div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Amen to that!</font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING=
-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;" dir=3D"ltr">
  <div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: norm=
al; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;">----- Origin=
al Message ----- </div><font size=3D"3">Still no excuse for new replacement=
 springs being manufactured with too=20
  much arch (and too high spring rate).&nbsp; Theory of a leaf spring is th=
at=20
  when fully loaded it should be straight, flat, no arch.&nbsp; This gives =
it=20
  the highest lateral stiffness and least tendency to twist and misalign th=
e=20
  springs and axle in hard cornering.&nbsp; It just rubs me the wrong way t=
o=20
  have to jury rig an perfectly good assembly to accommodate use of a fault=
y=20
  replacement part.<br></font>
  <blockquote class=3D"ydpc939c689yiv4978094949cite" type=3D"cite">
    <dl>
      <dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl></blockquote></blockquote></div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Mgs mailing =
list<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a><br><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/li=
stinfo/mgs" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailma=
n/listinfo/mgs</a><br></div>
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