Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Pump?

From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:32:50 +0000 (UTC)

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I went to In N Out for lunch today.=C2=A0 The line was very long so I had t=
o inch forward and was stopped numerous times for a few minutes in between.=
=C2=A0 The fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumping furiously like I was runni=
ng out of gas while stopped halfway through the line.=C2=A0 The car was sti=
ll running.=C2=A0 I got up to the first window to pay and the idle dropped =
to less than 500 rpm.=C2=A0 In a minute or so later the engine just quit.=
=C2=A0 There is over a half tank of gas in the car.=C2=A0 I tried starting =
it several times, but it would just fire and die.=C2=A0 After several attem=
pts the car started again, all the while the fuel pump was going like mad.=
=C2=A0 After getting out of the line the fuel pump slowed down like normal =
and you did not hear it after what I assume was a full float bowl.=C2=A0 No=
 issues going home the 4 or 5 miles.=C2=A0 Does that sound like my fuel pum=
p is going out or the tank pickup is clogged?Mike MacLean1969 MGB GT1960 Bu=
geye=C2=A01956 Austin Healey BN2

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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" data-setdir=3D"false">I went to In N Out for lunch today.&nbsp; The line =
was very long so I had to inch forward and was stopped numerous times for a=
 few minutes in between.&nbsp; The fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumping fu=
riously like I was running out of gas while stopped halfway through the lin=
e.&nbsp; The car was still running.&nbsp; I got up to the first window to p=
ay and the idle dropped to less than 500 rpm.&nbsp; In a minute or so later=
 the engine just quit.&nbsp; There is over a half tank of gas in the car.&n=
bsp; I tried starting it several times, but it would just fire and die.&nbs=
p; After several attempts the car started again, all the while the fuel pum=
p was going like mad.&nbsp; After getting out of the line the fuel pump slo=
wed down like normal and you did not hear it after what I assume was a full=
 float bowl.&nbsp; No issues going home the 4 or 5 miles.&nbsp; Does that s=
ound like my fuel pump is going out or the tank pickup is clogged?</div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Mike MacLean</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data=
-setdir=3D"false">1969 MGB GT</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">1=
960 Bugeye</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">&nbsp;1956 Austin He=
aley BN2<br></div></div></body></html>
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From: Robert's New iPad <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 17:51:06 -0500

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Hi Mike,
   Furious pumping as you describe it sounds like an air leak on suction sid=
e of the pump to me.  It would not be audible when you were driving.
   If the tank pick-up is clogged, I do not believe the pump would be able t=
o work quickly, if at all. =20
  You could try to simulate the condition at In N Out by disconnecting fuel l=
ine at the carb connection and pumping a couple of quarts into a container. =
 It should show a steady pump,pump,pump with no air bubbles.    As the pump i=
s cooled by fuel passing through it, this test will not harm the pump.
Bob

> On Jan 10, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Michael MacLean <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
>=20
> I went to In N Out for lunch today.  The line was very long so I had to in=
ch forward and was stopped numerous times for a few minutes in between.  The=
 fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumping furiously like I was running out of g=
as while stopped halfway through the line.  The car was still running.  I go=
t up to the first window to pay and the idle dropped to less than 500 rpm.  I=
n a minute or so later the engine just quit.  There is over a half tank of g=
as in the car.  I tried starting it several times, but it would just fire an=
d die.  After several attempts the car started again, all the while the fuel=
 pump was going like mad.  After getting out of the line the fuel pump slowe=
d down like normal and you did not hear it after what I assume was a full fl=
oat bowl.  No issues going home the 4 or 5 miles.  Does that sound like my f=
uel pump is going out or the tank pickup is clogged?
> Mike MacLean
> 1969 MGB GT
> 1960 Bugeye
>  1956 Austin Healey BN2
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi M=
ike,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; &nbsp;Furious pumping as you describe it s=
ounds like an air leak on suction side of the pump to me. &nbsp;It would not=
 be audible when you were driving.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; &nbsp;If the=
 tank pick-up is clogged, I do not believe the pump would be able to work qu=
ickly, if at all. &nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; You could try to simul=
ate the condition at In N Out by disconnecting fuel line at the carb connect=
ion and pumping a couple of quarts into a container. &nbsp;It should show a s=
teady pump,pump,pump with no air bubbles. &nbsp; &nbsp;As the pump is cooled=
 by fuel passing through it, this test will not harm the pump.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jan 10,=
 2021, at 4:32 PM, Michael MacLean &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrengineer.mike@att=
.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family=
:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir=3D"ltr" d=
ata-setdir=3D"false">I went to In N Out for lunch today.&nbsp; The line was v=
ery long so I had to inch forward and was stopped numerous times for a few m=
inutes in between.&nbsp; The fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumping furiously=
 like I was running out of gas while stopped halfway through the line.&nbsp;=
 The car was still running.&nbsp; I got up to the first window to pay and th=
e idle dropped to less than 500 rpm.&nbsp; In a minute or so later the engin=
e just quit.&nbsp; There is over a half tank of gas in the car.&nbsp; I trie=
d starting it several times, but it would just fire and die.&nbsp; After sev=
eral attempts the car started again, all the while the fuel pump was going l=
ike mad.&nbsp; After getting out of the line the fuel pump slowed down like n=
ormal and you did not hear it after what I assume was a full float bowl.&nbs=
p; No issues going home the 4 or 5 miles.&nbsp; Does that sound like my fuel=
 pump is going out or the tank pickup is clogged?</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data=
-setdir=3D"false">Mike MacLean</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">1=
969 MGB GT</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">1960 Bugeye</div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">&nbsp;1956 Austin Healey BN2<br></div></d=
iv></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>_____=
__________________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span>=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span=
>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/don=
ate.html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><b=
r><span></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/m=
gs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>U=
nsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh@gmai=
l.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]</a></span>=
<br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 08:29:15 -0000 nVxlto9baa8g9Qbz176VEbWSMtS/LWfSo+9h41uWVFEUubjoTKH1hxstmRdQTB3J1YjLcaBH7JddpBl5Hk5kgaYjCqrnYadOliY=

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Could be several things, but unless it was pumping fuel onto the ground =
it's more likely to be associated with the pump itself.

An air leak on the suction side is unlikely to seal itself again, for =
more than a couple of minutes anyway.  A blockage does allow the pump to =
pump more rapidly than when pumping fuel, but not as rapidly as when =
it's not pumping fuel for other reasons e.g. valve stuck open or pumping =
air.

As the idle dropped, and only cut out a minute or so later, the =
implication is that the fuel supply was greatly reduced, not cut off =
altogether at the outset.

It could be the one-way valve in the pump inlet allowing fuel to be =
pushed back towards the tank instead of the carbs, possibly dirt =
although there should be filters there - in an original SU anyway.

A delivery check is the thing to do, remove a pipe from a carb, direct =
it into a container and turn on the ignition.  It should deliver a =
minimum of one Imperial pint per minute, and in practice double that, in =
a continuous stream of pulses with minimal bubbling.  Bubbling =
especially variable implies a suction side air leak, without that =
hesitation with the pump speeding up implies the valve is not sealing.

PaulH.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  ...
  The fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumping furiously like I was running =
out of gas while stopped halfway through the line.  The car was still =
running.  I got up to the first window to pay and the idle dropped to =
less than 500 rpm.  In a minute or so later the engine just quit.  There =
is over a half tank of gas in the car.  I tried starting it several =
times, but it would just fire and die.  After several attempts the car =
started again, all the while the fuel pump was going like mad.  After =
getting out of the line the fuel pump slowed down like normal and you =
did not hear it after what I assume was a full float bowl.  No issues =
going home the 4 or 5 miles.  Does that sound like my fuel pump is going =
out or the tank pickup is clogged?
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Could be several things, but unless it was pumping =
fuel onto=20
the ground it's more likely to be associated with the pump =
itself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>An air leak on the suction side is unlikely to seal =
itself=20
again, for more than a couple of minutes anyway.&nbsp; A blockage does =
allow the=20
pump to pump more rapidly than when pumping fuel,&nbsp;but not as =
rapidly as=20
when it's not pumping&nbsp;fuel for other reasons&nbsp;e.g. valve stuck =
open or=20
pumping air.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>As the idle dropped, and only cut out a minute or so =
later,=20
the implication is that the fuel supply was greatly reduced, not cut off =

altogether at the outset.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It could be the one-way valve in the pump inlet =
allowing fuel=20
to be pushed back towards the tank instead of the carbs, possibly dirt =
although=20
there should be filters there - in an original SU anyway.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A delivery check is the thing to do, remove a pipe =
from a=20
carb, direct it into a container and turn on the ignition.&nbsp; It =
should=20
deliver a minimum of one Imperial pint per minute, and in practice =
double that,=20
in a continuous stream of pulses with minimal bubbling.&nbsp; Bubbling=20
especially variable implies a suction side air leak, without that =
hesitation=20
with the pump speeding up implies the valve is not sealing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>...</B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 16px"=20
  class=3Dyahoo-style-wrap>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr data-setdir=3D"false">The fuel pump on my 69 GT started =
pumping=20
  furiously like I was running out of gas while stopped halfway through =
the=20
  line.&nbsp; The car was still running.&nbsp; I got up to the first =
window to=20
  pay and the idle dropped to less than 500 rpm.&nbsp; In a minute or so =
later=20
  the engine just quit.&nbsp; There is over a half tank of gas in the =
car.&nbsp;=20
  I tried starting it several times, but it would just fire and =
die.&nbsp; After=20
  several attempts the car started again, all the while the fuel pump =
was going=20
  like mad.&nbsp; After getting out of the line the fuel pump slowed =
down like=20
  normal and you did not hear it after what I assume was a full float=20
  bowl.&nbsp; No issues going home the 4 or 5 miles.&nbsp; Does that =
sound like=20
  my fuel pump is going out or the tank pickup is=20
clogged?</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:49:55 +0000 (UTC)

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 After a cursory inspection today I found a non SU type electric pump.=C2=
=A0 Looks like a large Facet type, but I can't be sure.=C2=A0 I also found =
that there are no filters anywhere between the tank to the Weber.=C2=A0 I r=
emoved the cylindrical mesh filter in the Weber and it was absolutely clean=
.=C2=A0 So I started it up cold and for the first time right after start it=
 idled a little over 500 rpm.=C2=A0 Usually with the jets (probably wrong o=
nes) in the Weber startups have not been under 1000 rpm at idle in the past=
.=C2=A0 The pump was clicking away as normal.=C2=A0 It has rubber type fuel=
 hose on either side of the pump which should not present a problem.=C2=A0 =
Don't want to, but might have to drop the fuel tank and have a look see.
Mike MacLean

    On Monday, January 11, 2021, 12:30:08 AM PST, PaulHunt73 <paulhunt73@vi=
rginmedia.com> wrote: =20
=20
  Could be several things, but unless it was pumping fuel onto the ground i=
t's more likely to be associated with the pump itself.=C2=A0An air leak on =
the suction side is unlikely to seal itself again, for more than a couple o=
f minutes anyway.=C2=A0 A blockage does allow the pump to pump more rapidly=
 than when pumping fuel,=C2=A0but not as rapidly as when it's not pumping=
=C2=A0fuel for other reasons=C2=A0e.g. valve stuck open or pumping air.=C2=
=A0As the idle dropped, and only cut out a minute or so later, the implicat=
ion is that the fuel supply was greatly reduced, not cut off altogether at =
the outset.=C2=A0It could be the one-way valve in the pump inlet allowing f=
uel to be pushed back towards the tank instead of the carbs, possibly dirt =
although there should be filters there - in an original SU anyway.=C2=A0A d=
elivery check is the thing to do, remove a pipe from a carb, direct it into=
 a container and turn on the ignition.=C2=A0 It should deliver a minimum of=
 one Imperial pint per minute, and in practice double that, in a continuous=
 stream of pulses with minimal bubbling.=C2=A0 Bubbling especially variable=
 implies a suction side air leak, without that hesitation with the pump spe=
eding up implies the valve is not sealing.=C2=A0PaulH.=C2=A0=C2=A0
 ----- Original Message -----  ...  The fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumpi=
ng furiously like I was running out of gas while stopped halfway through th=
e line.=C2=A0 The car was still running.=C2=A0 I got up to the first window=
 to pay and the idle dropped to less than 500 rpm.=C2=A0 In a minute or so =
later the engine just quit.=C2=A0 There is over a half tank of gas in the c=
ar.=C2=A0 I tried starting it several times, but it would just fire and die=
.=C2=A0 After several attempts the car started again, all the while the fue=
l pump was going like mad.=C2=A0 After getting out of the line the fuel pum=
p slowed down like normal and you did not hear it after what I assume was a=
 full float bowl.=C2=A0 No issues going home the 4 or 5 miles.=C2=A0 Does t=
hat sound like my fuel pump is going out or the tank pickup is clogged?
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpd30afafyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">After a cursory inspection today I 
found a non SU type electric pump.&nbsp; Looks like a large Facet type, but I
 can't be sure.&nbsp; I also found that there are no filters anywhere between
 the tank to the Weber.&nbsp; I removed the cylindrical mesh filter in the 
Weber and it was absolutely clean.&nbsp; So I started it up cold and for the 
first time right after start it idled a little over 500 rpm.&nbsp; Usually 
with the jets (probably wrong ones) in the Weber startups have not been 
under 1000 rpm at idle in the past.&nbsp; The pump was clicking away as 
normal.&nbsp; It has rubber type fuel hose on either side of the pump which 
should not present a problem.&nbsp; Don't want to, but might have to drop the 
fuel tank and have a look see.<br></div>Mike MacLean</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div>
        
        </div><div id="yahoo_quoted_1389178209" class="yahoo_quoted">
            <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                
                <div>
                    On Monday, January 11, 2021, 12:30:08 AM PST, PaulHunt73 &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id="yiv1084069196">

<style></style>

<div>
<div><font size="2">Could be several things, but unless it was pumping fuel onto 
the ground it's more likely to be associated with the pump itself.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size="2">An air leak on the suction side is unlikely to seal itself 
again, for more than a couple of minutes anyway.&nbsp; A blockage does allow the 
pump to pump more rapidly than when pumping fuel,&nbsp;but not as rapidly as 
when it's not pumping&nbsp;fuel for other reasons&nbsp;e.g. valve stuck open or 
pumping air.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size="2">As the idle dropped, and only cut out a minute or so later, 
the implication is that the fuel supply was greatly reduced, not cut off 
altogether at the outset.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size="2">It could be the one-way valve in the pump inlet allowing fuel 
to be pushed back towards the tank instead of the carbs, possibly dirt although 
there should be filters there - in an original SU anyway.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size="2">A delivery check is the thing to do, remove a pipe from a 
carb, direct it into a container and turn on the ignition.&nbsp; It should 
deliver a minimum of one Imperial pint per minute, and in practice double that, 
in a continuous stream of pulses with minimal bubbling.&nbsp; Bubbling 
especially variable implies a suction side air leak, without that hesitation 
with the pump speeding up implies the valve is not sealing.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size="2">PaulH.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;">
  <div style="FONT:10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
  <div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;"><b>...</b></div>
  <div style="FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;FONT-SIZE:16px;" class="yiv1084069196yahoo-style-wrap">
  <div dir="ltr">The fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumping 
  furiously like I was running out of gas while stopped halfway through the 
  line.&nbsp; The car was still running.&nbsp; I got up to the first window to 
  pay and the idle dropped to less than 500 rpm.&nbsp; In a minute or so later 
  the engine just quit.&nbsp; There is over a half tank of gas in the car.&nbsp; 
  I tried starting it several times, but it would just fire and die.&nbsp; After 
  several attempts the car started again, all the while the fuel pump was going 
  like mad.&nbsp; After getting out of the line the fuel pump slowed down like 
  normal and you did not hear it after what I assume was a full float 
  bowl.&nbsp; No issues going home the 4 or 5 miles.&nbsp; Does that sound like 
  my fuel pump is going out or the tank pickup is 
clogged?</div></div></blockquote></div>
</div></div>
            </div>
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From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:29:27 -0000 3pN62guKiviekADUXwx6L4AiUrkafmXieKVGbs3bmCD8IXp5n9fEnNEPz9IlRDsYLopQxt3VgyDsI6panzhSI/44ecNXow6Hyvs=

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AFAIK Facet click away all the time unlike the SU design which only =
clicks on demand.  There are Hardi types which look exactly like the SU, =
and plastic-bodied Moprod which do not look the same but mount and =
connect in the same way and operate like an SU.

Both those, and the later SUs, are 'pointless'  pumps and I've had =
problems with the Moprod where it started short-stroking and causing =
fuel starvation even though it was clicking away, and I just had to wait =
until it decided to start working properly again.  After two or three =
bouts of that I junked it and fitted a pukka SU - with points, at least =
with those a clout usually gets them going again.

What filters there are from the factory are internal on HS cars - tank =
pickup and inside the pump, HIF cars have one just before the carbs.

I don't think dropping the tank will show much, although if you drain =
enough out and remove the gauge sender and tip it on end you may be able =
to see the pickup - if there are no baffles.

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Michael MacLean=20
  To: PaulHunt73 ; Mglist=20
  Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 12:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [Mgs] Fuel Pump?

  After a cursory inspection today I found a non SU type electric pump.  =
Looks like a large Facet type, but I can't be sure.  I also found that =
there are no filters anywhere between the tank to the Weber.  I removed =
the cylindrical mesh filter in the Weber and it was absolutely clean.  =
So I started it up cold and for the first time right after start it =
idled a little over 500 rpm.  Usually with the jets (probably wrong =
ones) in the Weber startups have not been under 1000 rpm at idle in the =
past.  The pump was clicking away as normal.  It has rubber type fuel =
hose on either side of the pump which should not present a problem.  =
Don't want to, but might have to drop the fuel tank and have a look see.

  Mike MacLean

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>AFAIK Facet click away all the time unlike the SU =
design which=20
only clicks on demand.&nbsp; There are Hardi types which =
look&nbsp;exactly like=20
the SU, and&nbsp;plastic-bodied Moprod&nbsp;which do not look the same =
but mount=20
and connect in the same way and operate like an SU.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Both those, and the later SUs, are 'pointless'=20
</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT size=3D2>pumps and I've had problems with the Moprod =
where it=20
started short-stroking and causing fuel starvation even though it was =
clicking=20
away, and I just had to wait until it decided to start working properly=20
again.&nbsp; After two or three bouts of that I junked it and fitted a =
pukka SU=20
- with points, at least with those a clout usually gets them going=20
again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What filters there are from the factory are internal =

on&nbsp;HS cars - tank pickup and inside the pump,&nbsp;HIF cars have =
one just=20
before the carbs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I don't think dropping the tank will show much, =
although if=20
you drain enough out and remove the gauge sender and tip it on end you =
may be=20
able to see the pickup - if there are no baffles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Michael=20
  MacLean</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">PaulHunt73</A> ; <A=20
  title=[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Mglist</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 12, 2021 =
12:49=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mgs] Fuel =
Pump?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 16px"=20
  class=3Dydpd30afafyahoo-style-wrap>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr data-setdir=3D"false">
  <DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr data-setdir=3D"false">After a cursory inspection today =
I found a=20
  non SU type electric pump.&nbsp; Looks like a large Facet type, but I =
can't be=20
  sure.&nbsp; I also found that there are no filters anywhere between =
the tank=20
  to the Weber.&nbsp; I removed the cylindrical mesh filter in the Weber =
and it=20
  was absolutely clean.&nbsp; So I started it up cold and for the first =
time=20
  right after start it idled a little over 500 rpm.&nbsp; Usually with =
the jets=20
  (probably wrong ones) in the Weber startups have not been under 1000 =
rpm at=20
  idle in the past.&nbsp; The pump was clicking away as normal.&nbsp; It =
has=20
  rubber type fuel hose on either side of the pump which should not =
present a=20
  problem.&nbsp; Don't want to, but might have to drop the fuel tank and =
have a=20
  look see.<BR></DIV>Mike MacLean</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Steven Trovato <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 23:58:35 -0500

I don't know where you live or what the weather is like, but the 
whole story sounds like a classic vapor lock situation.  The car runs 
great except in stop and go traffic, as the heat builds under the 
bonnet.  See if the idling/inching scenario makes it happen 
again.  Maybe some more burgers are in order!

-Steve T.

At 04:32 PM 1/10/2021, Michael MacLean wrote:
>I went to In N Out for lunch today.  The line was very long so I had 
>to inch forward and was stopped numerous times for a few minutes in 
>between.  The fuel pump on my 69 GT started pumping furiously like I 
>was running out of gas while stopped halfway through the line.  The 
>car was still running.  I got up to the first window to pay and the 
>idle dropped to less than 500 rpm.  In a minute or so later the 
>engine just quit.  There is over a half tank of gas in the car.  I 
>tried starting it several times, but it would just fire and 
>die.  After several attempts the car started again, all the while 
>the fuel pump was going like mad.  After getting out of the line the 
>fuel pump slowed down like normal and you did not hear it after what 
>I assume was a full float bowl.  No issues going home the 4 or 5 
>miles.  Does that sound like my fuel pump is going out or the tank 
>pickup is clogged?
>Mike MacLean
>1969 MGB GT
>1960 Bugeye
>  1956 Austin Healey BN2

-- 
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[email-masked]

---

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2021 09:49:47 -0000 2/ULCr+X0I0vk4k3L44JcuDsgUN01HaUHuR68QajC7ANgBM+tXGn7ZdT

It's not possible to get vapour lock on an MGB with a standard fuel pump and
carb(s) in good working order.

Once the floats have dropped the float valves open and with the top of the
float chamber(s) open to atmosphere (as they should be) any fuel in the
lines that is being pressurised by the pump will flow in.  Fuel would have
to be vaporising at the rate of about 2 Imperial pints per minute which is
impossible (unless the car is on fire ...) to cause the pump to chatter as
described.  Any vapour in the lines will be pushed out of the lines by the 
pump to be replaced by liquid fuel, just as when filling a dry system.  The 
pump by itself is more than enough to 'prime' the system, nothing else is 
needed.

Vapour lock does happen in very hot condition where you have a engine driven
pump, where due to the lowered pressure in the line from the tank the fuel
will boil more easily.  And the cure seems to be to fit an electric pump by
the tank, as pressurised fuel in the long line and the engine compartment is
less likely to boil.  There are videos of this being don on YouTube.

Poor running and problems hot starting on an MGB in hot weather are more
likely to be down to fuel expansion overflowing into the intake and causing
a rich mixture, or ignition problems, but neither wouldn't be accompanied by
a chattering fuel pump.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

>I don't know where you live or what the weather is like, but the whole
>story sounds like a classic vapor lock situation.

[email-masked]