Subject: Re: [Mgs] oil

From: Max Heim via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 15:06:25 -0700

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Threads on oil can be endless. But synthetic vs non-synthetic is not the =
critical factor (depending on the history of your engine). The important =
thing is that it provide sufficient zinc and phosphorus (AKA ZDDP) to =
protect the lifters/tappets/cam followers in pre-smog-era MGs. All =
modern oils designed for use with catalytic converters do not provide =
adequate ZDDP (it clogs converters). You have to specifically select a =
compatible oil.

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is one (although it may be non-optimal for =
other reasons, such as lack of detergent)
Mobil1 Synthetic 15W50 (this weight ONLY in this brand)
Certain weights from Kendall, Royal Purple, Gibbs

Note that many people got into the habit of using diesel grade oils for =
this reason. But now that diesel emissions are under tighter control, =
these oils have also been stripped of ZDDP.=20

Read the spec sheets if you are concerned.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Bert Palte via Mgs <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> Yes, also over here in Europe it has become less easily available.
> If nothing else is available, 10W40 will do.
> I use mineral oil. That is good enough, our cars aren't high tech!
>=20
> Bert=20
> 70 B=20
> SA4BRL=20
> PA0LPS
> --=20
> Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> On 2019-06-17, 23:19 dave via Mgs <[email-masked] =
> I=E2=80=99ve been using Valvoline 20w 50 full synthetic for several =
years now, and it used to be immediately available from Amazon with free =
shipping.  It has zddp.
>=20
> =20
> Now its 1 to 2 months.
>=20
> =20
> However =E2=80=93 Advanced Auto Parts - =
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-full-synth=
etic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=3Dvalvoline+20w-50+ful=
l+synthetic =
<https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-full-synt=
hetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=3Dvalvoline+20w-50+fu=
ll+synthetic>
>=20
> =20
> free shipping with a minimum order of $25, which is 3 quarts.  You can =
buy it any number of quarts (from Amazon it=E2=80=99s a 6 pack), and =
it=E2=80=99s a couple pennies cheaper!!!
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________ [email-masked] =
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs =
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>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Threads on oil can be endless. But synthetic vs non-synthetic =
is not the critical factor (depending on the history of your engine). =
The important thing is that it provide sufficient zinc and phosphorus =
(AKA ZDDP) to protect the lifters/tappets/cam followers in pre-smog-era =
MGs. All modern oils designed for use with catalytic converters do not =
provide adequate ZDDP (it clogs converters). You have to specifically =
select a compatible oil.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is one (although it may be =
non-optimal for other reasons, such as lack of detergent)</div><div =
class=3D"">Mobil1 Synthetic 15W50 (this weight ONLY in this =
brand)</div><div class=3D"">Certain weights from Kendall, Royal Purple, =
Gibbs<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Note that many people got into the habit of using diesel =
grade oils for this reason. But now that diesel emissions are under =
tighter control, these oils have also been stripped of =
ZDDP.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Read=
 the spec sheets if you are concerned.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; =
min-height: 16px;" class=3D"">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">'66 MGB</div></div></div>
</div>

<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Bert Palte via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"mail_android_message" style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; line-height: 1; padding: 0.5em;">Yes, =
also over here in Europe it has become less easily available.<br =
class=3D"">If nothing else is available, 10W40 will do.<br class=3D"">I =
use mineral oil. That is good enough, our cars aren't high tech!<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bert<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">70 B<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">SA4BRL<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">PA0LPS<br =
class=3D"">--<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my =
brevity.</div><div class=3D"mail_android_quote" style=3D"font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; line-height: 1; =
padding: 0.3em;">On 2019-06-17, 23:19 dave via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0.8ex 0pt 0pt =
0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been using Valvoline 20w 50 full synthetic for =
several years now, and it used to be immediately available from Amazon =
with free shipping.&nbsp; It has zddp.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"></p><div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Now its 1 to 2 months.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"></p><div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">However =E2=80=93 Advanced Auto Parts -<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-fu=
ll-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=3Dvalvoline+20=
w-50+full+synthetic" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50=
-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=3Dvalvoline=
+20w-50+full+synthetic</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"></p><div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">free shipping with a minimum order of $25, which is 3 =
quarts.&nbsp; You can buy it any number of quarts (from Amazon it=E2=80=99=
s a 6 pack), and it=E2=80=99s a couple pennies cheaper!!!</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"></p><div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div>___________________________=
____________________<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><span =
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114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Suggested annual donation =
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---

From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:51:24 +0100 hGMboTZTWpQZ6oBabkQDmP8D9Xw3jp2mmiFvJ7dHq3AiCwLtboJT9nyl

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>From my reading of spec sheets of oil available to me in the UK modern =
oils (including for Diesel) have had their ZDDP reduced over time as =
much for environmental reasons as for damage to catalysts, but then so =
have some 'classic' 20W/50 formulations.  ZDDP content is what the =
manufacturer chooses to put in, so you can't say that any weight or API =
rating is automatically going to have a particular content.  For example =
a few years ago Castrol XL 20W/50 SE was showing 800ppm, whereas GTX =
15W/40 SL showed 1035, and GTX Diesel 15W/40 1200.  For classics they =
recommended their Syntec 20W/50 at 1200, whereas claims elsewhere said =
that their GTX 20W/50 would always be 1300-140ppm.  Mobil 1 Fuel Economy =
0W/30 quoted 1000 whereas their Super 3000 Formula R 5W/30 showed 500.  =
I've also seen a letter purporting to be a letter from Royal Purple =
stating that RP XPR 10W40 has over 1500-1600 ppm of ZDDP and "we could =
take all of the ZDDP out of our engine oils and still have 4 times the =
wear resistance of even the VR-1 oil due to our Synerlec additive =
technology".

At the moment over here the highest concentration seems to be Classic =
Oils Heritage 20W/50 at 1300ppm =
https://www.classic-oils.net/Classic-Oils-Heritage-20W50

A friend has personal experience of a new cam and tappets being wrecked =
in just 20k on a semi-synthetic 15W/40 SL, but from other things I have =
read really old classifications such as SB never had that much to begin =
with, and engines didn't suffer damage.  So I suspect the problem with =
rebuilt engines is as much to do with poorer quality components these =
days as anything else.

But as I say that's the situation over here, and as someone else said =
this discussion could go on for ever.

PaulH.
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style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>From my reading of spec sheets of oil available to =
me in the=20
UK modern oils (including&nbsp;for Diesel) have had their ZDDP reduced =
over time=20
as much for environmental reasons as for damage to catalysts, but then =
so have=20
some 'classic' 20W/50 formulations.&nbsp; ZDDP content is what the =
manufacturer=20
chooses to put in, so you can't say that any weight or API rating is=20
automatically going to have a particular content.&nbsp; For example a =
few years=20
ago Castrol XL 20W/50 SE was showing&nbsp;800ppm, whereas GTX 15W/40=20
SL&nbsp;showed 1035, and GTX Diesel 15W/40 1200.&nbsp; For classics they =

recommended their Syntec 20W/50 at 1200, whereas claims elsewhere said =
that=20
their GTX 20W/50 would always be 1300-140ppm.&nbsp; Mobil 1 Fuel Economy =
0W/30=20
quoted 1000 whereas their Super 3000 Formula R 5W/30 showed 500.&nbsp; =
I've also=20
seen a letter purporting to be a letter from Royal Purple stating that =
RP XPR=20
10W40 has over 1500-1600 ppm of ZDDP and "we could take all of the ZDDP =
out of=20
our engine oils and still have 4 times the wear resistance of even the =
VR-1 oil=20
due to our Synerlec additive technology".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>At the moment over here the highest concentration =
seems to be=20
Classic Oils Heritage 20W/50 at 1300ppm <A=20
href=3D"https://www.classic-oils.net/Classic-Oils-Heritage-20W50">https:/=
/www.classic-oils.net/Classic-Oils-Heritage-20W50</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A friend has personal experience of a new cam and =
tappets=20
being wrecked in just 20k on a semi-synthetic 15W/40 SL, but from other =
things I=20
have read really old classifications such as SB never had that much to =
begin=20
with, and engines didn't suffer damage.&nbsp; So I suspect the problem =
with=20
rebuilt engines is as much&nbsp;to do with poorer quality components =
these days=20
as anything else.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But as I say that's the situation over here, and as =
someone=20
else said this discussion could go on for ever.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Charley Robinson via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:37:33 -0500

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VR1 contains an additive package. I would hope there's a detergent in 
it, because it's what I'm using.
   Viz: https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq

CR

On 6/17/2019 5:06 PM, Max Heim via Mgs wrote:
>
> Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is one (although it may be non-optimal for 
>> On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Bert Palte via Mgs <[email-masked] 
>>
>> Bert
>> 70 B
>> SA4BRL
>> On 2019-06-17, 23:19 dave via Mgs <[email-masked] 
>>
>>     I’ve been using Valvoline 20w 50 full synthetic for several years
>>     now, and it used to be immediately available from Amazon with
>>     free shipping.  It has zddp.
>>
>>
>>     Now its 1 to 2 months.
>>
>>
>>     However – Advanced Auto Parts
>>     -https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=valvoline+20w-50+full+synthetic
>>
>>
>>     free shipping with a minimum order of $25, which is 3 quarts. 
>>     You can buy it any number of quarts (from Amazon it’s a 6 pack),
>>     and it’s a couple pennies cheaper!!!
>>
>>
>>     [email-masked]
>>     annual donation $12.75
>>     Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgshttp://autox.team.net/archiveUnsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
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>
>
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    VR1 contains an additive package. I would hope there's a detergent
    in it, because it's what I'm using. <br>
      Viz: <a
      href="https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq">https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq</a><br>
    <br>
    CR<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/2019 5:06 PM, Max Heim via Mgs
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is one (although it may be
        non-optimal for other reasons, such as lack of detergent)</div>
      <div class="">Mobil1 Synthetic 15W50 (this weight ONLY in this
        brand)</div>
      <div class="">Certain weights from Kendall, Royal Purple, Gibbs<br
          class="">
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <div class="">
            <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
              -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
              after-white-space;" class="">
              <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
                text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
                none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
                -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
                after-white-space;" class="">
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" class="">--</div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; min-height:
                  16px;" class="">Max Heim</div>
                <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" class="">'66
                  MGB</div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br class="">
          <div>
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Bert Palte via
                Mgs &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" class=""
                  moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">
                <div class="mail_android_message" style="font-family:
                  Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                  font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                  letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
                  text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                  normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                  0px; line-height: 1; padding: 0.5em;">Yes, also over
                  here in Europe it has become less easily available.<br
                    class="">
                  If nothing else is available, 10W40 will do.<br
                    class="">
                  I use mineral oil. That is good enough, our cars
                  aren't high tech!<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  Bert<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                    class="">
                  70 B<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                    class="">
                  SA4BRL<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                    class="">
                  PA0LPS<br class="">
                  --<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                    class="">
                  Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please
                  excuse my brevity.</div>
                <div class="mail_android_quote" style="font-family:
                  Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                  font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                  letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
                  text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                  normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                  0px; line-height: 1; padding: 0.3em;">On 2019-06-17,
                  23:19 dave via Mgs &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:[email-masked]" style="color:
                    rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;"
                    class="" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote:
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.8ex
                    0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
                    border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
                    rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
                    <div class="WordSection1" style="page:
                      WordSection1;">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">I’ve been using Valvoline 20w 50 full
                        synthetic for several years now, and it used to
                        be immediately available from Amazon with free
                        shipping.  It has zddp.</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=""> <br
                          class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">Now its 1 to 2 months.</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=""> <br
                          class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">However – Advanced Auto Parts -<span
                          class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=valvoline+20w-50+full+synthetic"
                          style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                          text-decoration: underline;" class=""
                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=valvoline+20w-50+full+synthetic</a></div>
                      <div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=""> <br
                          class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">free shipping with a minimum order of
                        $25, which is 3 quarts.  You can buy it any
                        number of quarts (from Amazon it’s a 6 pack),
                        and it’s a couple pennies cheaper!!!</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=""> <br
                          class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    _______________________________________________<span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
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                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Suggested
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

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[email-masked]

--===============2272584235901197851==--

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From: Max Heim via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:27:09 -0700

--===============2154628392616458954==
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Quote from the first paragraph of the FAQ:

The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other racing oils =
<https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil> not intended for =
passenger vehicles contain additional additives for increased horsepower =
and reduced friction on metal parts, provide extra wear protection for =
high compression/higher horsepower engines, and include fewer detergents =
than regular conventional motor oils.

So, that answers that question. If you change your oil frequently, it =
probably isn=E2=80=99t a problem, though.

I have used racing oil in the transmission, however, because reduced =
friction and wear protection are relevant concepts, and detergent is =
pointless (since no combustion blow-by).

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Charley Robinson <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> VR1 contains an additive package. I would hope there's a detergent in =
it, because it's what I'm using.=20
>   Viz: https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq =
<https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq>
>>> On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Bert Palte via Mgs <[email-masked] =
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>> free shipping with a minimum order of $25, which is 3 quarts.  You =
can buy it any number of quarts (from Amazon it=E2=80=99s a 6 pack), and =
it=E2=80=99s a couple pennies cheaper!!!
>> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked] =
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--Apple-Mail=_E15388E6-4160-466A-A84F-3B30387BC873
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Quote from the first paragraph of the FAQ:<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(125, 126, =
126); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: =
16.799999237060547px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);" =
class=3D"">The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other&nbsp;</span><a =
id=3D"lnkRacingOils" =
href=3D"https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil" =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: =
none; color: rgb(25, 25, 25); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: 16.799999237060547px;" class=3D"">racing oils</a><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(125, 126, 126); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px; background-color: rgb(254, =
254, 254);" class=3D"">&nbsp;not intended for passenger vehicles contain =
additional additives for increased horsepower and reduced friction on =
metal parts, provide extra wear protection for high compression/higher =
horsepower engines, and include <u class=3D"">fewer detergents</u> than =
regular conventional motor oils.</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(125, 126, 126); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px; background-color: rgb(254, =
254, 254);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D"">So, =
that answers that question. If you change your oil frequently, it =
probably isn=E2=80=99t a problem, though.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I have used racing oil in the =
transmission, however, because reduced friction and wear protection are =
relevant concepts, and detergent is pointless (since no combustion =
blow-by).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; =
min-height: 16px;" class=3D"">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">'66 MGB</div></div></div>
</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Charley Robinson &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" class=3D"">
    VR1 contains an additive package. I would hope there's a detergent
    in it, because it's what I'm using. <br class=3D"">
    &nbsp; Viz: <a =
href=3D"https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq" =
class=3D"">https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq</a><br =
class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    CR<br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/2019 5:06 PM, Max Heim via =
Mgs
      wrote:<br class=3D"">
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:[email-masked]" class=3D"">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is one (although it may =
be
        non-optimal for other reasons, such as lack of detergent)</div>
      <div class=3D"">Mobil1 Synthetic 15W50 (this weight ONLY in this
        brand)</div>
      <div class=3D"">Certain weights from Kendall, Royal Purple, =
Gibbs<br class=3D"">
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
        </div>
        <br class=3D"">
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
          <div class=3D"">
            <div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
              <div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
                <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div>
                <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; min-height:
                  16px;" class=3D"">Max Heim</div>
                <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">'66
                  MGB</div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br class=3D"">
          <div class=3D"">
            <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
              <div class=3D"">On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Bert Palte =
via
                Mgs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:</div>
              <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class=3D"">
                <div class=3D"mail_android_message" style=3D"font-family:
                  Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                  font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                  letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
                  text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                  normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                  0px; line-height: 1; padding: 0.5em;">Yes, also over
                  here in Europe it has become less easily available.<br =
class=3D"">
                  If nothing else is available, 10W40 will do.<br =
class=3D"">
                  I use mineral oil. That is good enough, our cars
                  aren't high tech!<br class=3D"">
                  <br class=3D"">
                  Bert<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                  70 B<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                  SA4BRL<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                  PA0LPS<br class=3D"">
                  --<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br=
 class=3D"">
                  Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please
                  excuse my brevity.</div>
                <div class=3D"mail_android_quote" style=3D"font-family:
                  Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                  font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
                  letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
                  text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                  normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                  0px; line-height: 1; padding: 0.3em;">On 2019-06-17,
                  23:19 dave via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color:
                    rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote:
                  <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0.8ex
                    0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
                    border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
                    rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
                    <div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page:
                      WordSection1;">
                      <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been using Valvoline 20w 50 full
                        synthetic for several years now, and it used to
                        be immediately available from Amazon with free
                        shipping.&nbsp; It has zddp.</div>
                      <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Now its 1 to 2 months.</div>
                      <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">However =E2=80=93 Advanced Auto Parts -<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-fu=
ll-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=3Dvalvoline+20=
w-50+full+synthetic" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                          text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1=
-racing-20w-50-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTe=
rm=3Dvalvoline+20w-50+full+synthetic</a></div>
                      <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">free shipping with a minimum order of
                        $25, which is 3 quarts.&nbsp; You can buy it any
                        number of quarts (from Amazon it=E2=80=99s a 6 =
pack),
                        and it=E2=80=99s a couple pennies =
cheaper!!!</div>
                      <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                      <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    _______________________________________________<span =
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                      underline;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Suggested
                    annual donation $12.75 Archive:<span =
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donation
                  &nbsp;$12.75</span><br style=3D"font-family: Verdana;
                  font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                  font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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      <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" =
wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</=
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---

From: Charley Robinson via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 11:38:31 -0500

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Okay but you said "lack of detergents" and to me that says no detergents 
because it's the most common usage of the word.

CR

On 6/19/2019 11:27 AM, Max Heim via Mgs wrote:
> The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other racing oils 
> <https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil> not intended for 
> passenger vehicles contain additional additives for increased 
> horsepower and reduced friction on metal parts, provide extra wear 
> protection for high compression/higher horsepower engines, and include 
> _fewer detergents_ than regular conventional motor oils.
>
> So, that answers that question. If you change your oil frequently, it 
> probably isn’t a problem, though.
>
> I have used racing oil in the transmission, however, because reduced 
> friction and wear protection are relevant concepts, and detergent is 
>> On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Charley Robinson <[email-masked] 
>>
>>>>     I’ve been using Valvoline 20w 50 full synthetic for several
>>>>     years now, and it used to be immediately available from Amazon
>>>>     with free shipping.  It has zddp.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Now its 1 to 2 months.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     You can buy it any number of quarts (from Amazon it’s a 6
>>>>     pack), and it’s a couple pennies cheaper!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
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>
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Okay but you said "lack of detergents" and to me that says no
    detergents because it's the most common usage of the word.<br>
    <br>
    CR   <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/19/2019 11:27 AM, Max Heim via Mgs
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Quote from the first paragraph of the FAQ:
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><span style="color: rgb(125, 126, 126); font-family:
          Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px;
          background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);" class="">The Valvoline
          VR1 Racing and other </span><a id="lnkRacingOils"
          href="https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil"
          style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;
          border: none; color: rgb(25, 25, 25); font-family: Helvetica,
          Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""
          moz-do-not-send="true">racing oils</a><span style="color:
          rgb(125, 126, 126); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
          font-size: 16.799999237060547px; background-color: rgb(254,
          254, 254);" class=""> not intended for passenger vehicles
          contain additional additives for increased horsepower and
          reduced friction on metal parts, provide extra wear protection
          for high compression/higher horsepower engines, and include <u
            class="">fewer detergents</u> than regular conventional
          motor oils.</span></div>
      <div class=""><span style="color: rgb(125, 126, 126); font-family:
          Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px;
          background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);" class=""><br class="">
        </span></div>
      <div class="">So, that answers that question. If you change your
        oil frequently, it probably isn’t a problem, though.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I have used racing oil in the transmission, however,
        because reduced friction and wear protection are relevant
        concepts, and detergent is pointless (since no combustion
        blow-by).</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <div class="">
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
        </div>
        <div class="">
          <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
            text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
            white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
            -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
            after-white-space;" class="">
            <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
              -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
              after-white-space;" class="">
              <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" class="">--</div>
              <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; min-height:
                16px;" class="">Max Heim</div>
              <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" class="">'66
                MGB</div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Charley Robinson
              &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                charset=UTF-8" class="">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> VR1
                contains an additive package. I would hope there's a
                detergent in it, because it's what I'm using. <br
                  class="">
                  Viz: <a
                  href="https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq"
                  class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq</a><br
                  class="">
                <br class="">
                CR<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/2019 5:06 PM, Max
                  Heim via Mgs wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:[email-masked]"
                  class="">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                    charset=UTF-8" class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is one
                    (although it may be non-optimal for other reasons,
                    such as lack of detergent)</div>
                  <div class="">Mobil1 Synthetic 15W50 (this weight ONLY
                    in this brand)</div>
                  <div class="">Certain weights from Kendall, Royal
                    Purple, Gibbs<br class="">
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <br class="">
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
                          break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                          -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
                          class="">
                          <div style="letter-spacing: normal;
                            text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
                            break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
                            class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;"
                              class="">--</div>
                            <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;
                              min-height: 16px;" class="">Max Heim</div>
                            <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;"
                              class="">'66 MGB</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                          <div class="">On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM,
                            Bert Palte via Mgs &lt;<a
                              href="mailto:[email-masked]" class=""
                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                            wrote:</div>
                          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="mail_android_message"
                              style="font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                              line-height: 1; padding: 0.5em;">Yes, also
                              over here in Europe it has become less
                              easily available.<br class="">
                              If nothing else is available, 10W40 will
                              do.<br class="">
                              I use mineral oil. That is good enough,
                              our cars aren't high tech!<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                              Bert<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                                class="">
                              70 B<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                                class="">
                              SA4BRL<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                                class="">
                              PA0LPS<br class="">
                              --<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                                class="">
                              Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail.
                              Please excuse my brevity.</div>
                            <div class="mail_android_quote"
                              style="font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                              line-height: 1; padding: 0.3em;">On
                              2019-06-17, 23:19 dave via Mgs &lt;<a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                                text-decoration: underline;" class=""
                                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                              wrote:
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin: 0.8ex 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
                                border-left-width: 1px;
                                border-left-style: solid;
                                border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                                padding-left: 1ex;">
                                <div class="WordSection1" style="page:
                                  WordSection1;">
                                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I’ve
                                    been using Valvoline 20w 50 full
                                    synthetic for several years now, and
                                    it used to be immediately available
                                    from Amazon with free shipping.  It
                                    has zddp.</div>
                                  <div class=""><br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Now
                                    its 1 to 2 months.</div>
                                  <div class=""><br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">However
                                    – Advanced Auto Parts -<span
                                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=valvoline+20w-50+full+synthetic"
                                      style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                                      text-decoration: underline;"
                                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=valvoline+20w-50+full+synthetic</a></div>
                                  <div class=""><br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">free
                                    shipping with a minimum order of
                                    $25, which is 3 quarts.  You can buy
                                    it any number of quarts (from Amazon
                                    it’s a 6 pack), and it’s a couple
                                    pennies cheaper!!!</div>
                                  <div class=""><br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                </div>
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                              style="font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
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                  <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                  <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>

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</pre>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

--------------2B1297EA21D420E32A7AE063--

--===============1848985613768778087==
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[email-masked]

--===============1848985613768778087==--

---

From: Max Heim via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:52:35 -0700

--===============1558913626194458806==
 boundary="Apple-Mail=_70DF88E6-D97A-4A75-9067-0B13D3AA395B"

--Apple-Mail=_70DF88E6-D97A-4A75-9067-0B13D3AA395B
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	charset=utf-8

I don't want to quibble, but I think =E2=80=9Cless than expected=E2=80=9D =
or =E2=80=9Cinsufficient=E2=80=9D are also perfectly valid meanings. If =
I lack money to pay my bills, that doesn=E2=80=99t mean I have =
absolutely zero money to my name. I just don't have enough.

I would say that the =E2=80=9Cnot intended for passenger vehicles=E2=80=9D=
 part of the quote justifies my =E2=80=9Cinsufficient=E2=80=9D =
assumption. What else could it be referring to? =E2=80=9CToo much=E2=80=9D=
 anti-friction or anti-wear? Hardly.

Again, I wasn=E2=80=99t actually criiticizing the idea of using this =
oil. Lower level of detergent isn=E2=80=99t an engine-killer, if you =
change the oil regularly. I just know that a lot of people drive their =
vintage cars infrequently and irregularly, and may not change the oil =
all that often, so I would hesitate to recommend it as the first option, =
since there are other alternatives available.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Jun 19, 2019, at 9:38 AM, Charley Robinson <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> Okay but you said "lack of detergents" and to me that says no =
detergents because it's the most common usage of the word.
> CR  =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Charley Robinson <[email-masked] =
>>>=20
>>> VR1 contains an additive package. I would hope there's a detergent =
in it, because it's what I'm using.=20
>>>>> On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Bert Palte via Mgs =
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my =
brevity.
>>>>> I=E2=80=99ve been using Valvoline 20w 50 full synthetic for =

--Apple-Mail=_70DF88E6-D97A-4A75-9067-0B13D3AA395B
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I don't want to quibble, but I think =E2=80=9Cless than =
expected=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cinsufficient=E2=80=9D are also perfectly =
valid meanings. If I lack money to pay my bills, that doesn=E2=80=99t =
mean I have absolutely zero money to my name. I just don't have =
enough.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I would say =
that the =E2=80=9Cnot intended for passenger vehicles=E2=80=9D part of =
the quote justifies my =E2=80=9Cinsufficient=E2=80=9D assumption. What =
else could it be referring to? =E2=80=9CToo much=E2=80=9D anti-friction =
or anti-wear? Hardly.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Again, I wasn=E2=80=99t actually criiticizing the idea of =
using this oil. Lower level of detergent isn=E2=80=99t an engine-killer, =
if you change the oil regularly. I just know that a lot of people drive =
their vintage cars infrequently and irregularly, and may not change the =
oil all that often, so I would hesitate to recommend it as the first =
option, since there are other alternatives available.</div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; =
min-height: 16px;" class=3D"">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">'66 MGB</div></div></div>
</div>

<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jun 19, 2019, at 9:38 AM, Charley Robinson &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" class=3D"">
    Okay but you said "lack of detergents" and to me that says no
    detergents because it's the most common usage of the word.<br =
class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    CR &nbsp; <br class=3D"">
    <br class=3D"">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/19/2019 11:27 AM, Max Heim via =
Mgs
      wrote:<br class=3D"">
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:[email-masked]" class=3D"">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
      Quote from the first paragraph of the FAQ:
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(125, 126, 126); =
font-family:
          Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px;
          background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);" class=3D"">The =
Valvoline
          VR1 Racing and other&nbsp;</span><a id=3D"lnkRacingOils" =
href=3D"https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil" =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;
          border: none; color: rgb(25, 25, 25); font-family: Helvetica,
          Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">racing oils</a><span style=3D"color:
          rgb(125, 126, 126); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
          font-size: 16.799999237060547px; background-color: rgb(254,
          254, 254);" class=3D"">&nbsp;not intended for passenger =
vehicles
          contain additional additives for increased horsepower and
          reduced friction on metal parts, provide extra wear protection
          for high compression/higher horsepower engines, and include <u =
class=3D"">fewer detergents</u> than regular conventional
          motor oils.</span></div>
      <div class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(125, 126, 126); =
font-family:
          Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16.799999237060547px;
          background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">
        </span></div>
      <div class=3D"">So, that answers that question. If you change your
        oil frequently, it probably isn=E2=80=99t a problem, =
though.</div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">I have used racing oil in the transmission, =
however,
        because reduced friction and wear protection are relevant
        concepts, and detergent is pointless (since no combustion
        blow-by).</div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <div class=3D"">
        <div class=3D"">
          <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
          </div>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"">
          <div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
            <div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D"">
              <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div>
              <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; min-height:
                16px;" class=3D"">Max Heim</div>
              <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">'66
                MGB</div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div class=3D""><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
        </div>
        <br class=3D"">
        <div class=3D"">
          <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
            <div class=3D"">On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Charley =
Robinson
              &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
            <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class=3D"">
              <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
                charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
              <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" class=3D""> VR1
                contains an additive package. I would hope there's a
                detergent in it, because it's what I'm using. <br =
class=3D"">
                &nbsp; Viz: <a =
href=3D"https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil=
-faq</a><br class=3D"">
                <br class=3D"">
                CR<br class=3D"">
                <br class=3D"">
                <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/17/2019 5:06 PM, Max
                  Heim via Mgs wrote:<br class=3D"">
                </div>
                <blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:[email-masked]" class=3D"">
                  <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
                    charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
                  <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                  </div>
                  <div class=3D"">Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is one
                    (although it may be non-optimal for other reasons,
                    such as lack of detergent)</div>
                  <div class=3D"">Mobil1 Synthetic 15W50 (this weight =
ONLY
                    in this brand)</div>
                  <div class=3D"">Certain weights from Kendall, Royal
                    Purple, Gibbs<br class=3D"">
                    <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                    </div>
                    <br class=3D"">
                    <div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align:
                          start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                          white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
                          break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                          -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
                          <div style=3D"letter-spacing: normal;
                            text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
                            break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">
                            <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div>
                            <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;
                              min-height: 16px;" class=3D"">Max =
Heim</div>
                            <div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">'66 MGB</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br class=3D"">
                      <div class=3D"">
                        <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
                          <div class=3D"">On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM,
                            Bert Palte via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                            wrote:</div>
                          <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
                          <div class=3D"">
                            <div class=3D"mail_android_message" =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                              line-height: 1; padding: 0.5em;">Yes, also
                              over here in Europe it has become less
                              easily available.<br class=3D"">
                              If nothing else is available, 10W40 will
                              do.<br class=3D"">
                              I use mineral oil. That is good enough,
                              our cars aren't high tech!<br class=3D"">
                              <br class=3D"">
                              Bert<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                              70 B<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                              SA4BRL<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                              PA0LPS<br class=3D"">
                              --<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
                              Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail.
                              Please excuse my brevity.</div>
                            <div class=3D"mail_android_quote" =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                              line-height: 1; padding: 0.3em;">On
                              2019-06-17, 23:19 dave via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                                text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                              wrote:
                              <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin: 0.8ex 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
                                border-left-width: 1px;
                                border-left-style: solid;
                                border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                                padding-left: 1ex;">
                                <div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page:=

                                  WordSection1;">
                                  <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve
                                    been using Valvoline 20w 50 full
                                    synthetic for several years now, and
                                    it used to be immediately available
                                    from Amazon with free =
shipping.&nbsp; It
                                    has zddp.</div>
                                  <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Now
                                    its 1 to 2 months.</div>
                                  <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">However
                                    =E2=80=93 Advanced Auto Parts -<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-fu=
ll-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTerm=3Dvalvoline+20=
w-50+full+synthetic" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                                      text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1=
-racing-20w-50-full-synthetic-motor-oil-1-quart-679082/10069836-P?searchTe=
rm=3Dvalvoline+20w-50+full+synthetic</a></div>
                                  <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">free
                                    shipping with a minimum order of
                                    $25, which is 3 quarts.&nbsp; You =
can buy
                                    it any number of quarts (from Amazon
                                    it=E2=80=99s a 6 pack), and it=E2=80=99=
s a couple
                                    pennies cheaper!!!</div>
                                  <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                </div>
_______________________________________________<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                                  text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">[email-masked]</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, =
114);
                                  text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Suggested
                                annual donation $12.75 Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79,
                                  114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, =
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                                  text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Unsubscribe:<span =
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                                  text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte@g=
mx.net</a></blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <span style=3D"font-family: Verdana;
                              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float:
                              none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <br style=3D"font-family: Verdana; =
font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
Verdana; font-size:
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <span style=3D"font-family: Verdana;
                              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float:
                              none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, =
114);
                              text-decoration: underline; font-family:
                              Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                              normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                              normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                              text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                              white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <span style=3D"font-family: Verdana;
                              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float:
                              none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <br style=3D"font-family: Verdana; =
font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <span style=3D"font-family: Verdana;
                              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float:
                              none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, =
114);
                              text-decoration: underline; font-family:
                              Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                              normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                              normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                              text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                              white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a><span =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float:
                              none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, =
114);
                              text-decoration: underline; font-family:
                              Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                              normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                              normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                              text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                              white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <br style=3D"font-family: Verdana; =
font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                            <span style=3D"font-family: Verdana;
                              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float:
                              none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Unsubscribe:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114);
                              text-decoration: underline; font-family:
                              Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                              normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                              normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                              text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                              white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim@=
sonic.net</a><br style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size:
                              12px; font-style: normal;
                              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                              normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                              text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                              word-spacing: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">=

                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br class=3D"">
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br class=3D"">

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">[email-masked]</a>
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>

Archive: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

Unsubscribe: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/charley=
[email-masked]</a>
</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br class=3D"">
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class=3D"">
      </div>
      <br class=3D"">
      <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" =
wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________

</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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