Subject: Re: [Mgs] Timing discussion

From: Richard Lindsay via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:25:38 -0500

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Exactly. If we learn anything from being lifelong automobile enthusiasts
its that EVERYTHING on a car is a compromise!

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 1:46 PM [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> You also have to realize that factory specs are a compromise.  They are
> trying to balance performance, mileage engine life and in modern cars,
> emissions.  You can tune it for, let's say  mileage, but performance will
> suffer.  Conversely, if you tune it for performance mileage will suffer.
> Tune it the way you want it to run.
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Richard Lindsay via Mgs <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: "[email-masked] List" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Timing discussion
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:26:49 -0500
>
> Awesome Charley. No factory manual is going to adequately prescribe the
> right answer for your FrankenMGB. You must love engine building as much as
> do I.
>
> R
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:41 AM Charley Robinson <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> That comment,  "Just advance the timing until you notice preignition."
>> has to be taken in the context of how much advance can you dial in
>> before it starts to ping under load.   It's a rough attempt to dial in a
>> particular engine/fuel combination.  I think most of us know the trial
>> and error method.
>>
>> To answer your question: My B engine is set at ~12* advance @ 850 - 900
>> RPM with the vac disconnected.  It pulls well through the midrange  set
>> that way.  But my engine kind of "parts is parts." It's a 18V block with
>> GH innards (flat -top pistons).  All this topped by a pre-smog head and
>> HS-4 carbs.  So I had to tweak it to get it to run the way I like it on
>> mid-grade gas.
>>
>> CR
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> *Our Hearts Go Out To Denzel Washington*
> go.dedicatedoffers.com
> <http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3242/5cc0aedbb020e2edb6b73st02duc>
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<div dir=3D"auto">Exactly. If we learn anything from being lifelong automob=
ile enthusiasts its that EVERYTHING on a car is a compromise!</div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 24=
, 2019, 1:46 PM <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
t</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>You also have to re=
alize that factory specs are a compromise.=C2=A0 They are trying to balance=
 performance, mileage engine life and in modern cars, emissions.=C2=A0 You =
can tune it for, let&#39;s say=C2=A0 mileage, but performance will suffer.=
=C2=A0 Conversely, if you tune it for performance mileage will suffer.=C2=
=A0 Tune it the way you want it to run.<br><br>---------- Original Message =
----------<br>From: Richard Lindsay via Mgs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox=
.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<=
br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">[email-masked]</a><br>Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a> List&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferr=
er">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [Mgs] Timing discussion<br>D=
ate: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:26:49 -0500<br><br>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div>Awesome Charley. No factory manual is going to adequately prescribe th=
e right answer for your FrankenMGB. You must love engine building as much a=
s do I.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">R<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:41 AM Charley=
 Robinson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">That comment,=C2=A0 &quot;Just advance the t=
iming until you notice preignition.&quot;=C2=A0 <br> has to be taken in the=
 context of how much advance can you dial in <br> before it starts to ping =
under load.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It&#39;s a rough attempt to dial in a <br> particul=
ar engine/fuel combination.=C2=A0 I think most of us know the trial <br> an=
d error method.<br> <br> To answer your question: My B engine is set at ~12=
* advance @ 850 - 900 <br> RPM with the vac disconnected.=C2=A0 It pulls we=
ll through the midrange=C2=A0 set <br> that way.=C2=A0 But my engine kind o=
f &quot;parts is parts.&quot; It&#39;s a 18V block with <br> GH innards (fl=
at -top pistons).=C2=A0 All this topped by a pre-smog head and <br> HS-4 ca=
rbs.=C2=A0 So I had to tweak it to get it to run the way I like it on <br> =
mid-grade gas.<br> <br> CR</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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=3D"#004080" size=3D"3"><b>Our Hearts Go Out To Denzel Washington</b></font=
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From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:37:26 +0100 9AoSa4soK8WHYKUrgcNsk4ijPbtra3Sq3/eYM54BSEvKJXsHrCFlDQpD1w46BxBKafDQZkrKwv+s08PQKyoRWwVNh6hUby/YaMA=

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Certainly the factory design overall is the compromise you mention, and =
as said earlier the settings are chosen for a 'worst case' in what can =
be quite a large variation between engines, plus a safety factor.  But =
given the components that come with any particular engine (of our era) =
'tuning' can only consist of setting the timing and the mixture, and for =
those there is only one 'correct' setting.  Get those right and you will =
have the best performance and mileage, and by 'right' I mean right for =
your engine and fuel.  That may well mean more advance than book as I =
found, which gave improved performance AND mileage, with no engine =
unreliability over the 6 years and 60k I had it..

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  You also have to realize that factory specs are a compromise.  They =
are trying to balance performance, mileage engine life and in modern =
cars, emissions.  You can tune it for, let's say  mileage, but =
performance will suffer.  Conversely, if you tune it for performance =
mileage will suffer.  Tune it the way you want it to run.

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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
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<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Certainly the factory design overall is the =
compromise you=20
mention, and as&nbsp;said earlier the settings are chosen for a 'worst =
case' in=20
what can be quite a large variation between engines, plus a safety =
factor.&nbsp;=20
But given the components that come with any particular engine (of our=20
era)&nbsp;'tuning' can only consist of setting the timing and the =
mixture, and=20
for those there is only one 'correct' setting.&nbsp; Get those right and =
you=20
will have the best performance and mileage, and by 'right' I mean right =
for your=20
engine and fuel.&nbsp; That may well mean more advance than book as I =
found,=20
which gave improved performance&nbsp;AND mileage, with no engine =
unreliability=20
over the 6 years and 60k I had it..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV>You also have to realize that factory specs are a =
compromise.&nbsp; They=20
  are trying to balance performance, mileage engine life and in modern =
cars,=20
  emissions.&nbsp; You can tune it for, let's say&nbsp; mileage, but =
performance=20
  will suffer.&nbsp; Conversely, if you tune it for performance mileage =
will=20
  suffer.&nbsp; Tune it the way you want it to=20
run.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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From: John DiFede via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:09:00 -0400

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I=E2=80=99m late to this discussion. =20
I look for total advance when timing an engine.  If I recall correctly my to=
tal advance is about 32 degrees BTDC at 3000 rpm.  Set the initial mechanica=
l timing and have distributor advance provide the rest.  This usually involv=
es changing the distributor springs to make the centrifugal advance quicker t=
han factory specs.=20
J DiFede

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 3:37 AM, PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
> Certainly the factory design overall is the compromise you mention, and as=
 said earlier the settings are chosen for a 'worst case' in what can be quit=
e a large variation between engines, plus a safety factor.  But given the co=
mponents that come with any particular engine (of our era) 'tuning' can only=
 consist of setting the timing and the mixture, and for those there is only o=
ne 'correct' setting.  Get those right and you will have the best performanc=
e and mileage, and by 'right' I mean right for your engine and fuel.  That m=
ay well mean more advance than book as I found, which gave improved performa=
nce AND mileage, with no engine unreliability over the 6 years and 60k I had=
 it..
> =20
> PaulH.
> ----- Original Message -----
> You also have to realize that factory specs are a compromise.  They are tr=
ying to balance performance, mileage engine life and in modern cars, emissio=
ns.  You can tune it for, let's say  mileage, but performance will suffer.  C=
onversely, if you tune it for performance mileage will suffer.  Tune it the w=
ay you want it to run.
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I=E2=80=99m late to this discussion. &nbsp;=
<div>I look for total advance when timing an engine. &nbsp;If I recall corre=
ctly my total advance is about 32 degrees BTDC at 3000 rpm. &nbsp;Set the in=
itial mechanical timing and have distributor advance provide the rest. &nbsp=
;This usually involves changing the distributor springs to make the centrifu=
gal advance quicker than factory specs.&nbsp;<div>J DiFede<br><br><div id=3D=
"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br>On Apr 25, 2019, at 3:37 AM, PaulHunt73 via Mgs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mgs=
@autox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">

<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" http-equiv=3D"Content-Ty=
pe">
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<style></style>

<div><font size=3D"2">Certainly the factory design overall is the compromise=
 you=20
mention, and as&nbsp;said earlier the settings are chosen for a 'worst case'=
 in=20
what can be quite a large variation between engines, plus a safety factor.&n=
bsp;=20
But given the components that come with any particular engine (of our=20
era)&nbsp;'tuning' can only consist of setting the timing and the mixture, a=
nd=20
for those there is only one 'correct' setting.&nbsp; Get those right and you=
=20
will have the best performance and mileage, and by 'right' I mean right for y=
our=20
engine and fuel.&nbsp; That may well mean more advance than book as I found,=
=20
which gave improved performance&nbsp;AND mileage, with no engine unreliabili=
ty=20
over the 6 years and 60k I had it..</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADD=
ING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3D"ltr">
  <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
  <div>You also have to realize that factory specs are a compromise.&nbsp; T=
hey=20
  are trying to balance performance, mileage engine life and in modern cars,=
=20
  emissions.&nbsp; You can tune it for, let's say&nbsp; mileage, but perform=
ance=20
  will suffer.&nbsp; Conversely, if you tune it for performance mileage will=
=20
  suffer.&nbsp; Tune it the way you want it to=20
run.<br></div></blockquote>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>________=
_______________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span>Don=
ate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.=
html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><br><s=
pan></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs">=
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r></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "Osborne, Paul via Mgs" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:13:41 +0000

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