Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question

From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:31:27 +0100

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Firstly I don't really see why a temp sender or gauge problem should =
make it run rough under load, but if it's OK now then it's water under =
the bridge.

"But there=E2=80=99s a single heavy brown positive lead that has a large =
double black connector (made for two heavy wire leads) but only has one =
female connector in it?"

This sounds like a PO mod to me, there is nothing like that round any =
MGB alternator that I'm aware of.  Does it carry 12v all the time?

>From what I have been able to determine from 69 to 71 a 16ACR alternator =
was used that had three connections close together on the back.  It =
seems that the middle one of these was a large spade and is the output =
terminal.  To one side of that is a standard spade which is the warning =
light terminal, and the third terminal looks like a standard spade but =
has chamfered corners as in =
http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altpm2.jp=
g.  This was the battery sensing terminal which had a standard gauge =
brown wire going back to the solenoid battery cable terminal, as well as =
the heavy gauge output wire.  This means that under heavy loads the =
alternator maintains a better system and battery voltage as it is able =
to ignore losses in the output wire between alternator and solenoid.

That was replaced by a different system, also three pin, but with two =
large spades and one standard as here =
http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altmetro.=
jpg.  The two large spades are connected together i.e. are both outputs, =
although at first only one was used i.e. only two wires to the alt.  On =
later models a second heavy gauge brown was used to reduce losses under =
heavy current conditions and maintain higher battery and system voltage.

Most MGBs probably have different alts now to what they came out of the =
factory with, and with the four wiring systems (the first alts had two =
plugs and up to five wires) it is anyone's guess how they have been =
modified.

If the warning light comes on with the ignition, and goes off when the =
engine is started and revved over 1000 rpm, and if you then see about =
14v on the brown at the fusebox, it is charging OK.

If your mystery brown does have battery voltage all the time, and you =
have an unused large output terminal on the alt, then you could connect =
it to that.  But unless you have added some large loads to the electrics =
it shouldn't be needed.  In which case carefully insulate the end and =
tie it in to the harness somewhere so it can't short to anything.

PaulH.

----- Original Message -----=20
  ..
  . I got the three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and the oil =
press transmitter lead all put back on ok.  But there=E2=80=99s a single =
heavy brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made =
for two heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in it?
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Firstly I don't really see why a temp sender or =
gauge problem=20
should make it run rough under load, but if it's OK now then it's water =
under=20
the bridge.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"</FONT><FONT size=3D3>But there=E2=80=99s a single =
heavy brown positive=20
lead that has a large double black connector (made for two heavy wire =
leads) but=20
only has one female connector in it?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This sounds like a PO mod to me, there is nothing =
like that=20
round any MGB alternator that I'm aware of.&nbsp;&nbsp;Does it carry 12v =
all the=20
time?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>From what I have been able to determine from 69 to =
71 a 16ACR=20
alternator was used that had three connections close together on the =
back.&nbsp;=20
It seems that the middle one of these was a large spade and is the =
output=20
terminal.&nbsp; To one side of that is a standard spade which is the =
warning=20
light terminal, and the third terminal looks like a standard spade but =
has=20
chamfered corners as in&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltpm2.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/image=
s/altpm2.jpg</A>.&nbsp;=20
This was the battery sensing terminal which had a standard gauge brown =
wire=20
going back to the solenoid battery cable terminal, as well as the heavy =
gauge=20
output wire.&nbsp; This means that under heavy loads the alternator =
maintains a=20
better system and battery voltage as it is able to ignore losses in the =
output=20
wire between alternator and solenoid.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That was replaced by a different system, also three =
pin, but=20
with two large spades and one standard as here <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltmetro.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima=
ges/altmetro.jpg</A>.&nbsp;=20
The two large spades are connected together i.e. are both outputs, =
although at=20
first only one was used i.e. only two wires to the alt.&nbsp; On later =
models a=20
second heavy gauge brown was used to reduce losses under heavy current=20
conditions and maintain higher battery and system voltage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Most MGBs probably have different alts now to what =
they came=20
out of the factory with, and with the four wiring systems (the first =
alts had=20
two plugs and up to five wires) it is anyone's guess how they have been=20
modified.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If the warning light comes on with the ignition, and =
goes off=20
when the engine is started and revved over 1000 rpm, and if you then see =
about=20
14v on the brown at the fusebox, it is charging OK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If your mystery brown does have battery voltage all =
the time,=20
and you have an unused large output terminal on the alt, then you could =
connect=20
it to that.&nbsp; But unless you have added some large loads to the =
electrics it=20
shouldn't be needed.&nbsp; In which case carefully insulate the end and =
tie it=20
in to the harness somewhere so it can't short to anything.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>----- Original Message ----- </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>..</B></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">
  <DIV>. I got the three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and =
the oil=20
  press transmitter lead all put back on ok.&nbsp; But there=E2=80=99s a =
single heavy=20
  brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made for =
two=20
  heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in=20
it?</DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:59:56 +0100

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Correction!

The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to five wires.  In 1972 =
it was the three pin plug with two wires, but from 1973 until maybe 1977 =
it was the 3-wire battery sensing system.

PaulH.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From what I have been able to determine from 69 to 71 a 16ACR =
alternator was used that had three connections close together on the =
back.
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Correction!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to =
five=20
wires.&nbsp; In 1972 it was the three pin plug with two wires, but from =
1973=20
until maybe 1977 it was the 3-wire battery sensing system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>From what I have been able to determine from 69 to =
71 a=20
  16ACR alternator was used that had three connections close together on =
the=20
  back.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Richard Lindsay via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:56:13 -0500

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Hello Paul, et al.,

Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with multiple connection
options supporting the different alternators?
On Aug 13, 2015 4:03 AM, "PaulHunt73 via Mgs" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Correction!
>
> The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to five wires.  In 1972 it
> was the three pin plug with two wires, but from 1973 until maybe 1977 it
> was the 3-wire battery sensing system.
>
> PaulH.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From what I have been able to determine from 69 to 71 a 16ACR alternator
> was used that had three connections close together on the back.
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
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>
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Hello Paul, et al.,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with multiple =
connection options supporting the different alternators?<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Aug 13, 2015 4:03 AM, &quot;PaulHunt73 via Mg=
s&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

<div dir=3D"ltr" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
<div><font size=3D"2">Correction!</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to fiv=
e=20
wires.=C2=A0 In 1972 it was the three pin plug with two wires, but from 197=
3=20
until maybe 1977 it was the 3-wire battery sensing system.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING=
-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
  <div><font size=3D"2">From what I have been able to determine from 69 to =
71 a=20
  16ACR alternator was used that had three connections close together on th=
e=20
  back.</font></div></blockquote></div>
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From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:14:06 +0100

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No, several different harnesses to match the alternator (or earlier =
dynamo) being fitted at the time.  Of course anyone could have fitted a =
replacement harness, and as well as being in the original flavours there =
are also conversion harnesses for example when rewiring an early car and =
opting to fit an alternator in place of the original dynamo.  I'm not =
aware of a harness that is capable of being fitted to all the various =
alts.  If anything they are more likely to be wired to suit the latest =
alt with 3 terminals, two of them being outputs. =20

Don't forget there could be PO mods that may or may not be concealed =
inside wrapping tape.

PaulH.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with multiple connection =
options supporting the different alternators?

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>No, several different harnesses to match the =
alternator (or=20
earlier dynamo)&nbsp;being fitted at the time.&nbsp; Of course anyone =
could have=20
fitted a replacement harness, and as well as being in the original =
flavours=20
there are also conversion harnesses for example&nbsp;when rewiring an =
early car=20
and opting&nbsp;to fit an alternator in place of the original =
dynamo.&nbsp; I'm=20
not aware of a&nbsp;harness that is capable of being fitted =
to&nbsp;all&nbsp;the=20
various alts.&nbsp; If anything they are more likely to be wired to suit =
the=20
latest alt with 3 terminals, two of them being outputs.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Don't forget there could be PO mods that may or may =
not be=20
concealed inside wrapping tape.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <P dir=3Dltr>Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with =
multiple=20
  connection options supporting the different alternators?<BR></P>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"=20
  class=3Dgmail_quote><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: dave willner via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:44:51 -0400

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Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. The only =
connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy =
brown lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos =
though, its 2 side by side and one below on the right side?=20

Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other 2 prong =
plus is not live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been =
hanging off for years or not...Also my red ignition warning light =
doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the key is turned and I believe it =
never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see it come on dimly =
last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is typical?

Appreciate the help
Dave=20

From: PaulHunt73=20
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 3:31 AM
To: dave willner ; [email-masked]=20
Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question

PaulH.

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</HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. The =
only=20
connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy =
brown lead=20
and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos though, its =
2 side=20
by side and one below on the right side? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other 2 =
prong plus is not live,=20
and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been hanging off for years =
or not...Also my red=20
ignition warning light doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the key is =
turned and I=20
believe it never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see it come =
on dimly last=20
night when the revs dropped low, which I know is typical?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Appreciate the help</DIV>
<DIV>Dave </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3D3 face=3DCalibri></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">PaulHunt73</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 13, 2015 3:31 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">dave willner</A> ; <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick=20
question</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Firstly I don't really see why a temp sender or =
gauge problem=20
should make it run rough under load, but if it's OK now then it's water =
under=20
the bridge.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"</FONT><FONT size=3D3>But there=E2=80=99s a single =
heavy brown positive=20
lead that has a large double black connector (made for two heavy wire =
leads) but=20
only has one female connector in it?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This sounds like a PO mod to me, there is nothing =
like that=20
round any MGB alternator that I'm aware of.&nbsp; Does it carry 12v all =
the=20
time?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>From what I have been able to determine from 69 to =
71 a 16ACR=20
alternator was used that had three connections close together on the =
back.&nbsp;=20
It seems that the middle one of these was a large spade and is the =
output=20
terminal.&nbsp; To one side of that is a standard spade which is the =
warning=20
light terminal, and the third terminal looks like a standard spade but =
has=20
chamfered corners as in <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltpm2.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/image=
s/altpm2.jpg</A>.&nbsp;=20
This was the battery sensing terminal which had a standard gauge brown =
wire=20
going back to the solenoid battery cable terminal, as well as the heavy =
gauge=20
output wire.&nbsp; This means that under heavy loads the alternator =
maintains a=20
better system and battery voltage as it is able to ignore losses in the =
output=20
wire between alternator and solenoid.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That was replaced by a different system, also three =
pin, but=20
with two large spades and one standard as here <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltmetro.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima=
ges/altmetro.jpg</A>.&nbsp;=20
The two large spades are connected together i.e. are both outputs, =
although at=20
first only one was used i.e. only two wires to the alt.&nbsp; On later =
models a=20
second heavy gauge brown was used to reduce losses under heavy current=20
conditions and maintain higher battery and system voltage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Most MGBs probably have different alts now to what =
they came=20
out of the factory with, and with the four wiring systems (the first =
alts had=20
two plugs and up to five wires) it is anyone's guess how they have been=20
modified.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If the warning light comes on with the ignition, and =
goes off=20
when the engine is started and revved over 1000 rpm, and if you then see =
about=20
14v on the brown at the fusebox, it is charging OK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If your mystery brown does have battery voltage all =
the time,=20
and you have an unused large output terminal on the alt, then you could =
connect=20
it to that.&nbsp; But unless you have added some large loads to the =
electrics it=20
shouldn't be needed.&nbsp; In which case carefully insulate the end and =
tie it=20
in to the harness somewhere so it can't short to anything.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>----- Original Message ----- </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>..</B></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: =
#000000">
  <DIV>. I got the three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and =
the oil=20
  press transmitter lead all put back on ok.&nbsp; But there=E2=80=99s a =
single heavy=20
  brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made for =
two=20
  heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in=20
it?</DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:45:33 +0100

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Is your alt like this?  =
http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/alt16acr.=
jpg

That is the 4 wire system with two plugs.  The upper one is pos (thick =
brown) and neg, although there may not be an earth wire on the neg if it =
makes that connection through the mounting ears as on all the other =
types.

In the second plug B+ should have another brown going back to the =
solenoid battery terminal with the brown from the first plug.

A brown/yellow should go to the IND terminal in this second plug, then =
loop back into the harness and out again to a 3rd terminal alongside it =
in the same plug.  I think this is to protect the electronics in case =
that plug becomes detached.

Is your clear plug like this?  =
http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altbee3.j=
pg

If so then it sounds like your harness has the plug for the later 2 and =
3 pin alts, but you still have the 2-plug, 4-wire alt.

This shows the three types, how they were wired, and how to convert =
between them =
http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altconv.j=
pg

If yours aren't like the first two images then without pictures of your =
alt and plugs it's a bit difficult to work out what is what.

Coming on dimly as the revs drop is actually what happens with a dynamo. =
 On an alt the light should switch out as the revs go above about =
1000rpm, and switch back on again if they drop below about 600 rpm, with =
little changes in brightness.  In practice the idle should never drop =
that low with an alt, as that stops it charging, and one of the benefits =
of the alt is that it should be charging at idle, unlike a dynamo.  If =
yours isn't coming on with the ignition but does come on dimly as you =
describe, then it is not wired correctly.

Paul.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. The =
only connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the =
heavy brown lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your =
photos though, its 2 side by side and one below on the right side?=20

  Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other 2 =
prong plus is not live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t =
been hanging off for years or not...Also my red ignition warning light =
doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the key is turned and I believe it =
never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see it come on dimly =
last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is typical?

------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D0D5DF.17324C60
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=EF=BB=BF<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is your alt like this?&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
lt16acr.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima=
ges/alt16acr.jpg</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That is the 4 wire system with two plugs.&nbsp; The =
upper one=20
is pos (thick brown) and neg, although there may not&nbsp;be an earth =
wire on=20
the neg if it makes that connection through the mounting ears as on all =
the=20
other types.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>In the second plug B+ should have another brown =
going back to=20
the solenoid battery terminal with the brown from the first =
plug.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A brown/yellow should go to the&nbsp;IND terminal =
in&nbsp;this=20
second&nbsp;plug, then loop back into the harness and out again to a 3rd =

terminal alongside it in the same plug.&nbsp; I think this is to protect =
the=20
electronics in case that plug becomes detached.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is your clear plug like this?&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltbee3.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag=
es/altbee3.jpg</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If so then it sounds like your harness has the plug =
for the=20
later 2 and 3 pin alts, but you still have the 2-plug, 4-wire =
alt.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This shows the three types, how they were wired, and =
how to=20
convert between them <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltconv.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag=
es/altconv.jpg</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If yours aren't like the first two images&nbsp;then =
without=20
pictures of your alt and plugs it's a bit difficult to work out what is=20
what.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Coming on dimly as the revs drop is actually what =
happens with=20
a dynamo.&nbsp; On an alt the light should switch out as the revs go =
above about=20
1000rpm, and switch back on again if they drop below about 600 rpm, with =
little=20
changes in brightness.&nbsp; In practice the idle should never drop that =
low=20
with an alt, as that stops it charging, and one of the benefits of the =
alt is=20
that it should be charging at idle, unlike a dynamo.&nbsp; If yours =
isn't coming=20
on with the ignition but does come on dimly as you describe, then it is =
not=20
wired correctly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Paul.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">
  <DIV>Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. =
The only=20
  connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy =
brown=20
  lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos =
though, its=20
  2 side by side and one below on the right side? </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other =
2 prong plus is not=20
  live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been hanging off =
for years or not...Also=20
  my red ignition warning light doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the =
key is turned=20
  and I believe it never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see =
it come on=20
  dimly last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is =
typical?</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none"><FONT=20
  size=3D2 =
face=3DArial></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: dave willner via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:35:41 -0400

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Yes, alt is like the first photo, although the cover says 16ACR, but =
same set up otherwise. Ok, I think I got it, the large single B lead =
just needs to connect to other top + terminal then.  My clear plug is =
not like your picture=20

Clear plug looks like this...

xxxx      xxxx
xxxx

Thanks
Dave

From: PaulHunt73=20
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 10:45 AM
To: dave willner ; [email-masked]=20
Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question

Is your alt like this?  =

Paul.

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Yes, alt is like the first photo, although the cover says 16ACR, =
but same=20
set up otherwise. Ok, I think I got it, the large single B lead just =
needs to=20
connect to other top + terminal then.&nbsp; My clear plug is not like =
your=20
picture </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Clear plug looks like this...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>xxxx&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; xxxx</DIV>
<DIV>xxxx</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV>Dave</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">PaulHunt73</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 13, 2015 10:45 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">dave willner</A> ; <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick=20
question</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is your alt like this?&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
lt16acr.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima=
ges/alt16acr.jpg</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That is the 4 wire system with two plugs.&nbsp; The =
upper one=20
is pos (thick brown) and neg, although there may not be an earth wire on =
the neg=20
if it makes that connection through the mounting ears as on all the =
other=20
types.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>In the second plug B+ should have another brown =
going back to=20
the solenoid battery terminal with the brown from the first =
plug.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A brown/yellow should go to the IND terminal in this =
second=20
plug, then loop back into the harness and out again to a 3rd terminal =
alongside=20
it in the same plug.&nbsp; I think this is to protect the electronics in =
case=20
that plug becomes detached.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is your clear plug like this?&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltbee3.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag=
es/altbee3.jpg</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If so then it sounds like your harness has the plug =
for the=20
later 2 and 3 pin alts, but you still have the 2-plug, 4-wire =
alt.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This shows the three types, how they were wired, and =
how to=20
convert between them <A=20
href=3D"http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/a=
ltconv.jpg">http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag=
es/altconv.jpg</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If yours aren't like the first two images then =
without=20
pictures of your alt and plugs it's a bit difficult to work out what is=20
what.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Coming on dimly as the revs drop is actually what =
happens with=20
a dynamo.&nbsp; On an alt the light should switch out as the revs go =
above about=20
1000rpm, and switch back on again if they drop below about 600 rpm, with =
little=20
changes in brightness.&nbsp; In practice the idle should never drop that =
low=20
with an alt, as that stops it charging, and one of the benefits of the =
alt is=20
that it should be charging at idle, unlike a dynamo.&nbsp; If yours =
isn't coming=20
on with the ignition but does come on dimly as you describe, then it is =
not=20
wired correctly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Paul.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: =
#000000">
  <DIV>Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. =
The only=20
  connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy =
brown=20
  lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos =
though, its=20
  2 side by side and one below on the right side? </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other =
2 prong plus is not=20
  live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been hanging off =
for years or not...Also=20
  my red ignition warning light doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the =
key is turned=20
  and I believe it never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see =
it come on=20
  dimly last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is =
typical?</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline"><FONT=20
  size=3D2=20
face=3DArial></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DI=
V></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:50:22 +0100

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Right, that looks like it should plug into the B+ and IND socket then.
  ----- Original Message -----=20

  xxxx      xxxx
  xxxx

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Right, that looks like it should plug into the B+ =
and=20
IND&nbsp;socket then.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
none">
face=3DArial></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>

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[email-masked]

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