Subject: Re: [Mgs] Alignment tool

From: Max Heim via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:06:53 -0700

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Usually you can't measure directly from 3 o=E2=80=99clock to 3 =
o=E2=80=99clock, or 9 to 9, anyway =E2=80=94 there is all sorts of =
hardware in the way. So you are dropping a vertical to the ground from =
these positions, and measuring the distance between that pair of points. =
And because of flex in the sidewalls, you really should lift the car off =
the ground and set it back down after every adjustment, or have the =
tires on a frictionless surface (which of course needs to be absolutely =
flat and level, in any case). All of which adds so many potential =
inaccuracies of angle and measurement that I would expect the errors =
would overwhelm the data.

I have done it, but merely as a sanity check after front end work. Then =
I have it professionally aligned before I wreck a pair of tires.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires
And now 67 MGB GHN3U137949G
Old English White, off-premises for restoration

> On Jul 28, 2015, at 12:29 PM, John Di Fede via Mgs =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> The alignment tool is rather primitive.  Paul, the instructions do not =
say to roll the car back and forth so as to measure at the same point on =
the tire.   I never considered that the tire could be fatter or narrower =
at certain points on the sidewalls.   I suppose that could happen if you =
have raised letters or some type of raised portion of the sidewalls.   =
For that matter a slightly bent wheel could through off the measurement. =
=20
> =20
> The tool is just slightly better than measuring toe in using a tape =
measure.    Measure distance across the front of the tires and the back =
of the tires at the same clock position on the tire ( 9  and 3  =
o=E2=80=99clock).  Front measurement should be 1/16=E2=80=9D shorter =
than the rear measurement.   I have set my own toe in on the MG and =
other hobby cars I own.  It is a pain in the A$$ especially when it =
involves centering the steering wheel.    It is all trial and error.  At =
times I have so much time invested that it would have been advantageous =
to spend $75 at the tire shop.=20
> =20
> John DiFede
>=20
>=20
>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>=09
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20=

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> _______________________________________________
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Usually you can't measure directly from 3 o=E2=80=99clock to =
3 o=E2=80=99clock, or 9 to 9, anyway =E2=80=94 there is all sorts of =
hardware in the way. So you are dropping a vertical to the ground from =
these positions, and measuring the distance between that pair of points. =
And because of flex in the sidewalls, you really should lift the car off =
the ground and set it back down after every adjustment, or have the =
tires on a frictionless surface (which of course needs to be absolutely =
flat and level, in any case). All of which adds so many potential =
inaccuracies of angle and measurement that I would expect the errors =
would overwhelm the data.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I have done it, but merely as a sanity check after front end =
work. Then I have it professionally aligned before I wreck a pair of =
tires.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" =
class=3D"">--</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; =
min-height: 16px;" class=3D"">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">'66 MGB GHN3L76149</div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0px; font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">If you're near Menlo Park, =
CA,</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">it's =
the primer red one with chrome wires</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; =
font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">And now 67 MGB GHN3U137949G</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 13px;" class=3D"">Old English White, =
off-premises for restoration</div></div>
</div>

<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 28, 2015, at 12:29 PM, John Di Fede via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The =
alignment tool is rather primitive.&nbsp; Paul, the instructions do not =
say to roll the car back and forth so as to measure at the same point on =
the tire.&nbsp;&nbsp; I never considered that the tire could be fatter =
or narrower at certain points on the sidewalls.&nbsp; &nbsp;I suppose =
that could happen if you have raised letters or some type of raised =
portion of the sidewalls.&nbsp; &nbsp;For that matter a slightly bent =
wheel could through off the measurement.&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The tool =
is just slightly better than measuring toe in using a tape =
measure.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Measure distance across the front of the =
tires and the back of the tires at the same clock position on the tire ( =
9 &nbsp;and 3 &nbsp;o=E2=80=99clock).&nbsp; Front measurement should be =
1/16=E2=80=9D shorter than the rear measurement.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have set =
my own toe in on the MG and other hobby cars I own.&nbsp; It is a pain =
in the A$$ especially when it involves centering the steering =
wheel.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;It is all trial and error.&nbsp; At times I =
have so much time invested that it would have been advantageous to spend =
$75 at the tire shop.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">John =
DiFede<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><br style=3D"font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
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background-color: rgb(176, 176, 176); height: 1px; width: 618.75px;" =
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_______________________________________________

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---

From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 08:08:35 +0100

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No, you roll it back and fore to even out the stresses on the tyre after =
making any adjustment.  That is standard practice when using =
professional alignment equipment, not just home-use kit that started =
this thread.  When you lift the tyres off the ground and lower it again, =
the tyres touch the ground when the suspension is fully extended.  The =
suspension then proceeds to compress until it is taking the full weight =
of the car.  There is no telling what stresses will develop between tyre =
and ground, and hence be applied to all the steering and suspension =
components, during the compression process.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  ... And because of flex in the sidewalls, you really should lift the =
car off the ground and set it back down after every adjustment
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<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
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style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>No, you roll it back and fore to even out the =
stresses on the=20
tyre after making any adjustment.&nbsp; That is standard practice when =
using=20
professional alignment equipment, not just home-use&nbsp;kit that =
started this=20
thread.&nbsp; When you lift the tyres off the ground and lower it again, =
the=20
tyres touch the ground when the suspension is fully extended.&nbsp; The=20
suspension then proceeds to compress until it is taking the full weight =
of the=20
car.&nbsp; There is no telling what stresses will develop between tyre =
and=20
ground, and hence be applied to all the steering and suspension =
components,=20
during the compression process.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>..</B>.=20
  And because of flex in the sidewalls, you really should lift the car =
off the=20
  ground and set it back down after every=20
adjustment</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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