Subject: [Mgs] 54 TF ammeter question

From: dontoy--- via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:24:12 +0000 (UTC)

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<html><body><font face=3D"Helvetica">Dear listers, <br>I have a 1954 TF whi=
ch my father drove home from Pittsburgh in 1971. After an electrical proble=
m way back then the ammeter got fried, along with damaging the temperature =
gauge. In an effort to go back to original I sent both units out for restor=
ation to MoMa. I installed the temperature gauge first and it went up to 18=
5* and held it there. That made me smile. Then I installed the ammeter. Sin=
ce I had did the polarity switch (now a negative ground car) I wasn't sure =
which wire went on which terminal. I just guessed and put the brown with wh=
ite on the left terminal, the solid brown on the right. &nbsp;Of course upo=
n starting the car, the ammeter ran in the negative side. 50% chance and I =
guessed wrong. So I thought. After reversing the wires I got the same resul=
t. I know I'm charging since I have never had a problem. I don't run a tric=
kle charger and can start the car anytime in go out into the garage, even a=
fter months. Is this just one of the effects of switching the polarity or i=
s there something I'm missing. I was showing a charge on the aftermarket un=
it that I was trying to replace. Ideas? <br>Don Toy<br>" all great men are =
dead... And I'm not feeling well"<br><br>Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile A=
pp</font></body></html>
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From: mgbob--- via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:59:58 GMT

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  A couple of questions, then ideas:  When engine revs increase, does th=
e ammeter needle move farther?  When engine is off, headlamps switched o=
n, does ammeter show charge or discharge?  Which way does the needle mov=
e when ignition is switched on?  Did you polarise the dynamo after makin=
g the polarity change?  Did you test the gauge when it was out of the ca=
r?  If you have not polarised the dynamo, do that first, then run the te=
sts again.  Should needle move farther to - when engine revs, the gauge =
is probably connected backwards. How would I know--did it myself last su=
mmer, despite having new harness and having marked the back of the ammet=
er.  Upside down, backwards, in the dark shadows, under the dash panel, =
wires seem to challenge the owner.  If needle moves to charge when ignit=
ion off and headlamps on, it confirms that gauge is wired backwards.   D=
id you polarise the dynamo after making the polarity change?  The proced=
ure is in the manual--easy to do, though the spark can be startling.  Ma=
nual also has a good explanation for testing output of dynamo and the co=
ntrol box.  The area of concern here is that all the electricity in the =
car, except for the starter, runs through this gauge, ignition on or off=
, so one wants to be comfortable that all connections are sound. Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: dontoy--- via Mgs <[email-masked]>
To: "" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Mgs] 54 TF ammeter question
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:24:12 +0000 (UTC)

Dear listers, =

I have a 1954 TF which my father drove home from Pittsburgh in 1971. Aft=
er an electrical problem way back then the ammeter got fried, along with=
 damaging the temperature gauge. In an effort to go back to original I s=
ent both units out for restoration to MoMa. I installed the temperature =
gauge first and it went up to 185* and held it there. That made me smile=
. Then I installed the ammeter. Since I had did the polarity switch (now=
 a negative ground car) I wasn't sure which wire went on which terminal.=
 I just guessed and put the brown with white on the left terminal, the s=
olid brown on the right.  Of course upon starting the car, the ammeter r=
an in the negative side. 50% chance and I guessed wrong. So I thought. A=
fter reversing the wires I got the same result. I know I'm charging sinc=
e I have never had a problem. I don't run a trickle charger and can star=
t the car anytime in go out into the garage, even after months. Is this =
just one of the effects of switching the polarity or is there something =
I'm missing. I was showing a charge on the aftermarket unit that I was t=
rying to replace. Ideas? =

Don Toy
" all great men are dead... And I'm not feeling well"

Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App

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<html><div>&nbsp; A couple of questions, then ideas:</div><div>&nbsp; Wh=
en engine revs increase, does the ammeter needle move farther?</div><div=
>&nbsp; When engine is off, headlamps switched on, does ammeter show cha=
rge or discharge?</div><div>&nbsp; Which way does the needle move when i=
gnition is switched on?</div><div>&nbsp; Did you polarise the dynamo aft=
er making the polarity change?</div><div>&nbsp; Did you test the gauge w=
hen it was out of the car?</div><div>&nbsp; If you have not polarised th=
e dynamo, do that first, then run the tests again.</div><div>&nbsp; Shou=
ld needle move farther to - when engine revs, the gauge is probably conn=
ected backwards. How would I know--did it myself last summer, despite ha=
ving new harness and having marked the back of the ammeter. &nbsp;Upside=
 down, backwards, in the dark shadows, under the dash panel, wires seem =
to challenge the owner.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;If needle moves to charge =
when ignition off and headlamps on, it confirms that gauge is wired back=
wards. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Did you p=
olarise the dynamo after making the polarity change? &nbsp;The procedure=
 is in the manual--easy to do, though the spark can be startling. &nbsp;=
Manual also has a good explanation for testing output of dynamo and the =
control box.</span></div><div>&nbsp; The area of concern here is that al=
l the electricity in the car, except for the starter, runs through this =
gauge, ignition on or off, so one wants to be comfortable that all conne=
ctions are sound.&nbsp;</div><div>Bob<br><br>---------- Original Message=
 ----------<br>From: dontoy--- via Mgs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>To:=
 "" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>Subject: [Mgs] 54 TF ammeter question<=
br>Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:24:12 +0000 (UTC)<br><br><span style=3D"fon=
t-family: Helvetica;">Dear listers, <br>I have a 1954 TF which my father=
 drove home from Pittsburgh in 1971. After an electrical problem way bac=
k then the ammeter got fried, along with damaging the temperature gauge.=
 In an effort to go back to original I sent both units out for restorati=
on to MoMa. I installed the temperature gauge first and it went up to 18=
5* and held it there. That made me smile. Then I installed the ammeter. =
Since I had did the polarity switch (now a negative ground car) I wasn't=
 sure which wire went on which terminal. I just guessed and put the brow=
n with white on the left terminal, the solid brown on the right. &nbsp;O=
f course upon starting the car, the ammeter ran in the negative side. 50=
% chance and I guessed wrong. So I thought. After reversing the wires I =
got the same result. I know I'm charging since I have never had a proble=
m. I don't run a trickle charger and can start the car anytime in go out=
 into the garage, even after months. Is this just one of the effects of =
switching the polarity or is there something I'm missing. I was showing =
a charge on the aftermarket unit that I was trying to replace. Ideas? <b=
r>Don Toy<br>" all great men are dead... And I'm not feeling well"<br><b=
r>Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App</span></p></html>

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[email-masked]

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From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:52:37 -0000

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The ammeter indicates the amount of current flowing.  If the cars =
electrics and battery are taking more than the dynamo can provide, then =
the ammeter will be showing a discharge.  If the engine revs are =
increased and this results in an increase in output from the dynamo, =
then the ammeter will indicate less of a discharge, and may move to show =
a charge.  Similarly if more things are switched on, then if a charge =
was being indicated before, that may reduce or it may become a =
discharge.  It all depends on how much current the cars electrics and =
battery are taking, compared with the dynamo output at the time.

Without the engine running i.e. no output from the dynamo switching =
anything - lights or ignition - on should show a discharge.

One needs to repolarise the dynamo after switch polarity or it will not =
charge.  If the polarity was switched between connecting the ammeter one =
way, then the other, and wasn't repolarised in between, then that would =
explain why the ammeter moved in the same direction both times. =20

But if the ammeter connections were reversed independently of switching =
the polarity, as seems likely, then there is some other reason why it =
indicates in the same direction as before reversing the connections.  =
Like the connections weren't actually reversed, of it was charging =
before but isn't now.  If the engine wasn't even run, just turned on =
ignition or lights, then the connections weren't actually reversed.

PaulH.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
    When engine revs increase, does the ammeter needle move farther?
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The ammeter indicates the amount of current =
flowing.&nbsp; If=20
the cars electrics and battery are taking more than the dynamo can =
provide, then=20
the ammeter will be showing a discharge.&nbsp; If the engine revs are =
increased=20
and this results in an increase in output from the dynamo, then the =
ammeter will=20
indicate less of a discharge, and may move to show a charge.&nbsp; =
Similarly=20
if&nbsp;more things are switched on, then if a charge was being =
indicated=20
before, that may reduce or it may become a discharge.&nbsp; It all =
depends on=20
how much current&nbsp;the cars electrics&nbsp;and battery are taking, =
compared=20
with the dynamo output at the time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Without the engine running i.e. no output from the =
dynamo=20
switching anything - lights or ignition - on should show a=20
discharge.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>One&nbsp;needs to repolarise the dynamo after switch =
polarity=20
or it will not charge.&nbsp; If&nbsp;the polarity&nbsp;was =
switched&nbsp;between=20
connecting the ammeter one way, then the other, and wasn't repolarised =
in=20
between, then that would explain why the ammeter moved in the same =
direction=20
both times.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But if the ammeter connections were reversed =
independently of=20
switching the polarity, as seems likely, then&nbsp;there is some other =
reason=20
why it indicates in the same direction as before reversing the=20
connections.&nbsp; Like the connections weren't actually reversed, of it =
was=20
charging before but isn't now.&nbsp; If the engine wasn't&nbsp;even run, =
just=20
turned on ignition or lights, then&nbsp;the connections weren't actually =

reversed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; When engine revs increase, does the ammeter needle move=20
  farther?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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