Subject: Re: [Mgs] Oil bummer

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 15:14:34 +0100

Is that showing a new braided oil gauge hose?  Or is that the failed one? 
In any event you are likely to get a lot more problems with new rubber than 
old.  Once my first heater valve failed the next one only lasted about five 
years, same as rear slaves.  The bottom hose and the oil gauge hose still on 
the roadster came with the car 23 years ago!

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> I think I'm going to make the oil pressure flexible hose a 2 or 3 year
> preemptive replacement part. 
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

---

From: "\" Just Brits \" Shop" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 09:59:51 -0500

<< On 5/5/2013 9:14 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:

<snip>

The bottom hose and the oil gauge hose still on the roadster came with 
the car 23 years ago! >>

I agree with you on your prose in <snip>, Paul.

Is it safe to surmise that you have both those items in the boot every 
time you leave home <G> ? ? ?

Ed
Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: Paul Osborne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:04:42 -0400

Just like all of the new rubber parts , junk. the orig last , the new ones
crack or fall apart in a few years.

paulo
On May 5, 2013, at 10:14 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:

> Is that showing a new braided oil gauge hose?  Or is that the failed one? In
any event you are likely to get a lot more problems with new rubber than old.
Once my first heater valve failed the next one only lasted about five years,
same as rear slaves.  The bottom hose and the oil gauge hose still on the
roadster came with the car 23 years ago!
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 16:21:48 +0100

I've been carrying spare hoses since I had one fail (not an MG) well over 30 
years ago, ditto fan belt on the same car.  Not had to use either ... yet!!

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

[email-masked]

---

From: "\" Just Brits \" Shop" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 10:38:57 -0500

<< On 5/5/2013 10:04 AM, Paul Osborne wrote:

.....the new ones crack or fall apart in a few years. >>

Whilst true Paul, at least we HAVE them AND "can" plan to re-place/re-build <G> ! ! !

Ed
Please visit MY site at:					
www.justbrits.com

[email-masked]

---

From: "\" Just Brits \" Shop" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 10:52:50 -0500

<< On 5/5/2013 10:21 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
> Not had to use either ... yet!!  >>

Forget the "yet" Paul, it is hardly NEVER that the spare you carry are 
needed <G> -
it is what you DON'T have that's needed.  LOL ! ! !

BTDT !

BTW and I have NOT checked it out <G>:

If you take the hose adpator-to-block out, on a 6 cyl. Healey a BOLT 
may be sub'ed <G> ! !
BTDT also ! ! !

Ed
Please visit MY site at:
www.justbrits.com

PS:  For EVERYBODY ! !  Paul, you will notice you ONLY get ONE (1) of 
this reply ! ! !
        It IS BECAUSE I "Edit" the "To:, CCto: &/or BCCto:" box ! ! ! !
        EVERYONE SHOULD ! ! !
PPS:  And the Footer SHOULD be removed from Replys/Forwards ! ! ! 
"Someday"
          MJB might just turn the "bounce switch" back ON and mails 
WILL get bounced<G> !
         Right Mark ? ? ?
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: Richard Lindsay <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:01:47 -0500

Hi Ed, Paul, et al.,

Anyone using silicone hoses on M.G.s?  The Ferrari community switched
over to silicone a number of years back.  As for belts; A good Gates
belt, not over tightened, and free from oil (Yea, right!) should last
a very long time.  Then again, 'long time' is relative.  Ferrari
recommends belt changes - especially the timing belts - every 3-4
years or 30,000 miles.  Speaking (writing?) as one who BROKE a cam
belt on a Ferrari V8 engine, the costs of Ferrari engine repairs are
insane!  The fan belt on my TR3 is at least 15 years old.  Hoses are
new.  My M.G.TD will get the generic hoses and belts.  They're already
in the new parts box waiting.

-rick

On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:38 AM, " Just Brits " Shop <[email-masked]> wrote:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: Barney Gaylord <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 13:22:46 -0500

In 1986 I installed a Teflon lined oil pressure hose form Moss 
Motors, life-time guarantee.  It is still hanging in there 27 years 
and 1/4 million miles later (same as the two fuel hoses at the 
carburetors).  Teflon is good stuff in contact with 
petrochemicals.  It predates but survives our switch to 10% ethanol fuel.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.cmo

At 08:47 PM 5/4/2013 -0700, Aaron Whiteman wrote:
>Well. This was one way to put a damper on an otherwise nice 100 mile 
>drive to Spokane.
>
>https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200479511742513&l=67126cb95d
>
>I think I'm going to make the oil pressure flexible hose a 2 or 3 
>year preemptive replacement part. This could have been really really 
>bad. I had no oil on the dipstick when I was able to pull over.

[email-masked]

---

From: Aaron Whiteman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 18:16:22 -0700

Sorry, was busy with Bloomsday (the reason I went to Spokane), so I couldn't
reply earlier.

The braided hose was the failed one. It failed right at the end that attaches
to the hard line to the gauge, and was spilling/spraying oil out down the line
and forward into the engine compartment.  All Four spark plug lines were
soaked, as was all the wiring for the heater fan, windscreen washer, the oil
filter, even the back of the alternator got a little.

All and all, I lost 3 quarts of oil and a little bit of trust in the car,
which is unfortunate. This hose was less than 13 years old, as I replaced the
previous one some time during the time I've owned it. I could look it up, I
suspect 2005 or so.

Does anybody sell a non-braided hose? Or are there any reasons to not go to
the local farm store and have them make me a line that might use materials
that hold up to their intended purpose?

At the moment, the engine side is capped, so I have no gauge, but also no
leaking hose.

--
Aaron

[email-masked]

---

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 08:51:35 +0100

How old was it?  It looks new, must have been faulty or very poor 
manufacture.  Where did it come from?

----- Original Message ----- 
The braided hose was the failed one. 
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: Aaron Whiteman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 06:06:33 -0700

Sent from my iPhone

It was somewhere between 4 and 13 years old. I may have a receipt in my
records, but I haven't started looking yet. I would have gotten it from moss.
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: Charley & Peggy Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 10:50:41 -0500

That's the hose I used when I built the engine in my B over 5 yrs ago.  
So far, so good.

CR
On 5/5/2013 1:22 PM, Barney Gaylord wrote:
> In 1986 I installed a Teflon lined oil pressure hose form Moss Motors, 
> life-time guarantee.  It is still hanging in there 27 years and 1/4 
> million miles later (same as the two fuel hoses at the carburetors).  
> Teflon is good stuff in contact with petrochemicals.  It predates but 
> survives our switch to 10% ethanol fuel.
>
> Barney Gaylord

[email-masked]

---

From: Charley & Peggy Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 11:04:22 -0500

CR

EDIT:  Checked my records;  I built that engine in 1999, so that Teflon 
lined hose has been on there ~14 yrs. Lord, where did all those years go?

[email-masked]

---

From: Aaron Whiteman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 17:38:00 -0700

> records, but I haven't started looking yet. I would have gotten it from
moss.

I didn't find the receipt, but I found a record that indicated the previous
hose had failed in May 2002. So the one that just failed was installed at that
time. I suppose I can't complain too much about 11 years of service.

I had the local guys that the farmers trust for hydraulics make me a new one.
They re-used the ends and fitted new hose and clamps, so I'm back to normal
now. In had them save the old hose, so I got a chance to look at it. After
removing the braided steel cover, as long as the rubber hose are held
straight, it looks good (and holds pressure when I stick my finger on one end
and blow into the other). But as I change the hose into the curved shape it
has when installed, it rapidly shows significant cracking and no longer holds
air.

The new one is made of much more substantial materials and has no braiding to
hide what's going on. Needless to say, I have a new "check" item as part of my
maintenance routines.

[email-masked]

---

From: Barney Gaylord <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 20:02:09 -0500

Only 11 years?  Fooey.  If MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) of every 
part on the car was 11 years, you would be fixing something that 
failed almost daily.  I want parts that will last 50 years or more.

That is a very critical part with severe consequences when it 
fails.  When the oil is lost the crankshaft bearings may go away 
before you hear the loud knocking noises, by which time it is too 
late and very expensive to repair the damaged crankshaft.

Go for the Teflon lined hose.

$.03,

Barney Gaylord
http://MGAguru.com

[email-masked]

---

From: Barney Gaylord <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 15:37:44 -0500

Opinions, as a matter of personal preference, are worth $.02
Opinions based on groundless speculation or rumor are worth $.01
Opinions well founded from the School Of Hard Knocks are worth $.03

Barney

At 07:54 PM 5/8/2013 +0200, Hans Duinhoven wrote:
>Barney,
>
>You've become quite expensive!
>Used to be 2 cents if I remember it well....
>....

>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Barney Gaylord
>8 mei 2013 3:02
>....
>
>Only 11 years?  Fooey.  If MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) of every part
>on the car was 11 years, you would be fixing something that failed almost
>daily.  I want parts that will last 50 years or more.
>....

> >....
> >I didn't find the receipt, but I found a record that indicated the
> >previous hose had failed in May 2002. So the one that just failed was
> >installed at that time. I suppose I can't complain too much about 11 years
>of service.
> >....

[email-masked]

---

From: "Stephen West-Fisher" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 19:42:39 -0400

My memory could be failing me but I believe in aircraft similar hoses have a
7 year lifespan - at that point they are supposed to be replaced. However,
it is not a requirement. I've had my B since '84, still has the same hoses.
Next service I may pull and inspect them.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Barney Gaylord
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:02 PM
To: Aaron Whiteman
Cc: [email-masked] List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Oil bummer

[email-masked]

---

From: Barney Gaylord <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 17:49:16 -0500

I don't know if the current Moss oil signal hose is Teflon lined.  It 
doesn't say that in the catalog listing.  Time to ask Moss.  Got your 
ears up, Kelvin?

It seems like such a trivial thing to do in production, and shouldn't 
add much to the cost of the raw hose (compared to total cost of 
manufacturing the hose assembly).  However, while fuel hoses run 
under 10 psi, the oil hoses run up to 100 psi, and hydraulic clutch 
hose runs about 250 psi, and brake hoses more like 500 psi.  Brake 
hoses have thick wall and very small bore size (which is okay for 
very low flow rate).  Clutch hose has larger bore for higher flow 
rate (for quick clutch return).  Fuel hoses have much larger bore and 
thinner wall.  These are all different creatures, so they don't 
necessarily all come from the same production factory.

At 03:22 PM 5/9/2013 -0700, you wrote:
>....
>I looked for that hose in the Moss catalog and don't see it. Do you 
>happen to know the part number?
>....

>On 5/7/2013 6:02 PM, Barney Gaylord wrote:
>>Only 11 years?  Fooey.  If MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) of 
>>every part on the car was 11 years, you would be fixing something 
>>that failed almost daily.  I want parts that will last 50 years or more.
>>
>>That is a very critical part with severe consequences when it fails.
>>When the oil is lost the crankshaft bearings may go away before you 
>>hear the loud knocking noises, by which time it is too late and 
>>very expensive to repair the damaged crankshaft.
>>

[email-masked]

---

From: Aaron Whiteman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 16:37:58 -0700

> I don't know if the current Moss oil signal hose is Teflon lined.  It
doesn't say that in the catalog listing.  Time to ask Moss.  Got your ears up,
Kelvin?

Certainly the one that failed in my car was not.

> It seems like such a trivial thing to do in production, and shouldn't add
much to the cost of the raw hose (compared to total cost of manufacturing the
hose assembly).  However, while fuel hoses run under 10 psi, the oil hoses run
up to 100 psi, and hydraulic clutch hose runs about 250 psi, and brake hoses
more like 500 psi.  Brake hoses have thick wall and very small bore size
(which is okay for very low flow rate).  Clutch hose has larger bore for
higher flow rate (for quick clutch return).  Fuel hoses have much larger bore
and thinner wall.  These are all different creatures, so they don't
necessarily all come from the same production factory.

The hose that failed on my car is a single-walled unreinforced rubber tube
that was then covered in braided steel. The outside diameter is 5/16", with a
1/16" thick wall (3/16" inner diameter).

I've posted a picture here:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7325/8723754053_7662f98784_c.jpg
(or larger version:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7325/8723754053_13e399e196_o.jpg)

I was actually pretty shocked at how small the tube was under that steel mesh.
Fuel line, even the stuff that is designed for carbs instead of FI has
significantly more structure.

[email-masked]

---

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:04:23 +0100

I have to say, mesh reinforced or not, I'm not surprised it failed 
considering it needs to take at least 80psi.  My 73 roadster all-rubber 
hose, which is quite possibly original as it is identical in appearance to 
my 75 V8 hose, is just over 1/2" OD and just over 1/8" ID i.e. a wall 
thickness of about 3/8" i.e. six times yours!  As a pal recently had a gauge 
hose failure, although in his case it was a pin-hole in the body, I've been 
looking at alternatives given the age of mine.  Steveson 
http://www.stevsonmotors.co.uk/oilpressurepipes&hoses.html do both rubber 
based and Teflon for competition, but with the Teflon only being #12 to the 
#7 for rubber it would seem foolish not to pay the extra fiver, even though 
their rubber-based come from Cohline of Germany who are OE suppliers to 
Mercedes, BMW, Porsche etc.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

[email-masked]