Subject: Re: [Mgs] 74 MGB starter issue

From: Aaron Whiteman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 18:59:48 -0700

On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:53 PM, William Killeffer <[email-masked]> wrote:

>  Dad said
> that if I can drop it, the Autozone folks will test it. We know how much
fun
> dropping the starter is, but if it makes a difference...

Having pulled a starter last fall, I can tell you with absolute certainty: the
starter is trivial to drop.

Disconnect the battery, then take all the wiring off the solenoid terminal(s),
then remove the two bolts that attach it to the engine using a ratchet and
some long extensions. You should be able to pull it past the dizzy and up out
through the engine bay.

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From: "Councill, David" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:32:57 +0000

Still sounds like a bad connection. If it was me, I would have cleaned the
battery terminal connections first, as well as battery ground connection. But
just as likely is the other end of the connection from battery terminal to
starter. Remove that connection on the starter, clean, and tighten - but be
careful to not over tighten. I used to have problems with that connection on
my 71 BGT that served as my daily driver for a 52 mile commute (each way) to
work many years ago.

David Councill

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of William Killeffer
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:53 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Mgs] 74 MGB starter issue

Back in November, I had to park my 1974 MGB because it appeared that the
starter had gotten stuck and would no longer turn the engine over. I could
still roll start it, but doing that on the flat ground at my home and the area
nearby can be a bit of a chore. The starter would not respond to being banged
on with a hammer or anything like that.

The battery is less than a year old and has been on a charger since all this
happened. I have replaced the ground cable in the battery box (one single 12v
rather than two 6v) and made sure to keep it short and attached to a clean
area of the body.

I got the wanderlust today and went through the rather laborious steps to get
it rolling under its own power and drove to see the parents a short distance
away.

My father speculated that the starter might not really be stuck, and that a
current test might reveal another issue. He has an inductive gauge measuring
amperage that is designed to fasten onto the hot wire running into the
starter.

I put the gauge on right before the wire actually connects to the starter, and
he turned the key. As always, we could hear the solenoid clicking, but no
response from the starter.

Assuming I had the gauge attached properly, the needle barely deflected when
he turned the key. He said that in the case of a stuck starter that is
attempting to turnover, the needle will make a large deflection because the
starter is pulling alot of current. In this case, barely any current was
pulled.

Dad said this could be a sign of bad brushes or some other contact issue,
especially since the solenoid clicks. The starter is no more than four years
old and was purchased at Autozone. In theory, it should still be under
warranty, but I cannot find the receipt from where I purchased it. Dad said
that if I can drop it, the Autozone folks will test it. We know how much fun
dropping the starter is, but if it makes a difference...

Anyhow, I just wanted to get some additional input from the group about other
issues that might be causing the trouble I am having. Any other ideas and
suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you,

[email-masked]

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From: Richard Ewald <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:15:20 -0700

One long shot and two real posibilities
Long shot first, you checked the battery to chassis ground, what about the
engine to chassis ground strap?  Choke cables will provide enough ground to
run the engine, but not the starter.  Check the ground cable.  If that is
OK, the other two possibilities are:
You either have a solenoid issue or a starter issue.
The solenoid acts like a giant switch to switch the high amps from the
battery to the starter.
Here is how you test it.
Take a volt meter set it to a scale that will read 12V.  Place the red lead
on Positive battery cable from the battery.  Place the black lead on the
input to the starter from the solenoid.  Have someone turn the key to start
and hold it there.  Read the meter.
If the meter reads exactly 0V the starter it probably toast (more on this
in a minute)
If the meter reads 0.1V to about 0.3V The solenoid is working and the issue
is the starter.
If the meter reads from about 0.7V to battery voltage, the solenoid is
toast.*

Next put the red lead on the the input from the solenoid to the starter and
the black lead on a good engine ground.
Again have someone turn and hold the key in the start position.   Read the
meter
If the meter reads:
0V indicates either no voltage is reaching the starter or the starter is
open circuit.
above about 0.7V a starter issue.*

*Industry specs for these components is no more than .2V drop, but these
are old cars and frankly can put up with more of a voltage drop than a
modern car.  A 0.5V drop in a solenoid or a starter won't keep a B from
starting,so I have adjusted for this in my recommendations.
Good luck

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From: "Hans Duinhoven" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 07:34:35 +0100

I had the same thing. Proved to be, that the thread on the solenoid had gone
and the wires were not tightly connected anymore. 
So check the wiring at the starter.

Cheers,
Hans
71 BGT

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] Namens
Aaron Whiteman
Verzonden: woensdag 20 maart 2013 3:00
Aan: William Killeffer
CC: [email-masked]
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] 74 MGB starter issue

fun
> dropping the starter is, but if it makes a difference...

Having pulled a starter last fall, I can tell you with absolute certainty:
the starter is trivial to drop.

Disconnect the battery, then take all the wiring off the solenoid
terminal(s), then remove the two bolts that attach it to the engine using a
ratchet and some long extensions. You should be able to pull it past the
dizzy and up out through the engine bay.

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:26:54 -0000

Before pulling the starter you need to check the connections.

When you turn the key and get the click, do the lights dim?  If they go 
right out then the starter is trying to pull current and the problem is in 
the battery earth strap or the 12v connection through to the solenoid stud, 
a voltmeter will tell you where the problem is.

If the lights don't go out the starter isn't trying to pull any current.  It 
could be the gearbox earth strap, again a voltmeter will show the problem 
when connected between a brown at the fusebox and a good engine earth, by 
the voltage dropping right down when the key is turned.  However there are 
usually enough alternative paths via the heater, accelerator and choke 
cables to at least allow the starter to turn the engine, together with said 
cables smoking.

If no volt drops anywhere when the key is turned then either the solenoid 
isn't passing the voltage to the motor, or the motor brushes are worn.  I 
don't think I have ever come across the latter, but the former is not 
uncommon.  It can often be fixed by removing the copper link in the solenoid 
and cleaning it and its mating contacts up.

The final possibility is a seized starter, but very unlikely, and seems to 
be excluded by the reading on your inductive ammeter.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> starter had gotten stuck 

[email-masked]

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From: Charley & Peggy Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 07:33:34 -0500

The Autozone people can look up your starter purchase on their computer 
network.  If you bought the Duralast starter you're entitled to a new 
starter.  Pull it off the engine and take it to the AZ store.  No muss, 
no fuss. :-)

CR
On 3/19/2013 8:53 PM, William Killeffer wrote:
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