Subject: [Healeys] Overdrive Conundrum

From: Bob Spidell via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2025 17:41:36 -0700

Listers,

I have a problem with my BJ8's overdrive that defies conventional logic: 
The O/D will not engage when the drivetrain is cold, but begins to 
function more-or-less normally as the drivetrain gets fully heated-up 
(15-20m on a warm day). I've checked the functioning of the electricals; 
i.e. when not running I can a) disconnect the coil ground so as not to 
fry the Pertonix Ignitor, b) place the gearbox in 3rd or 4th and c) 
close either, or both, the dash switch and/or the switch on the shift 
knob --they're wired in parallel so either one will engage the O/D, but 
both need to be in off/open condition to disengage--and I can hear the 
solenoid click firmly (this pretty much rules out the switches). I have 
already replaced the scuttle relay to no effect (I have had them get 
flaky). AFAIK, the throttle/'kickdown' switch only comes into play when 
disengaging, and seems to work when the O/D does engage.

My thinking is, if the pump is failed or failing the O/D might work when 
the fluid is cold but cease to function as the fluid heats up and thins 
out (I've used Redline MT-90 successfully for over 100K miles or more; 
it's equivalent to 50wt engine oil). But, the O/D not engaging when cold 
(somewhat) refutes this theory. If the outlet check valve on the pump 
was somehow boogered I would expect either a) cold function only, or b) 
no function at all. Ditto the solenoid; I'd expect it to get flakey when 
hot and it does 'click' reliably (when cold). I can imagine the lever on 
the operating cam slipping, but wouldn't expect that to vary with 
temperature (or to work at all, actually). Actuating shaft lift was 
correctly set at rebuild. I do have a DWM 'uprated' accumulator 
installed, and the O/D engages within 2 seconds when it functions.

Anyone had this condition, or have a theory as to why it behaves this 
way? Next step would be to remove the console and confirm I have good 
oil pressure (but if I do, then what?).

TIA,
Bob
_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

---

From: Hank Leach via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2025 16:52:20 +0000 CgHXs075ihuM/glOojxF8GiuUIxVh8yvAD9M0nz9asEmrwN2cqScvp0u1vzM88PkkrdtvYdvlC7+dzV7Zn5tZhFbK1Y+P/lRULd4uv9gLCPAFb8aolb7Gyt+ EZ7wFSrUTiNqiYCwOKSFRA==

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<div>The required clearance for the sunwheel is .016-.020" If you swapped =
out the bearing there could be a difference from original. Moss and AH =
Spares sell the various sized steel washers depending on the reading you =
get. Typically, after many miles, that rear bronze washer is cracked or =
worn and should be replaced.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The factory(when there was one) recommended to only use <span =
style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">30W Non Detergent</span> oil as =
others tended to foam and cause pressure issues. Also to be sure it is =
properly topped up- #1-key reason to not work.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Before you tear it down, why not just change the oil as recommended =
and see if there is a difference-easiest fix at this point. If not the =
problem then it needs to come out and repair. Hank</div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "Bob Spidell via Healeys" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br>Reply-To: "Bob Spidell" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br>To: "Michael Salter" &lt;michael.=
[email-masked]&gt;, "Healeys" &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br>Sent: =
October 24, 2025 at 9:38 PM PDT <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive =
Conundrum <br>Hi Michael,<br><br>I rebuilt the gearbox and O/D probably =
about 7-8 years or so ago. I've probably put close to 10K miles on it since=
, but not too many since I moved to the Central Valley. For the last few =
years it's been mostly short and day trips every month or two so, it's been=
 mostly sedentary. A few months ago I took it out for a spin and noticed =
the O/D wouldn't engage at first but would start working normally after =
maybe 20 minutes of driving. In subsequent runs it's more not engaging, =
until a few days ago I'd decided I would likely have to pull the gearbox =
and O/D, but had to pull it out to get it off the QuickJack underneath it =
and, to my surprise it started to work OK again after 15-20 miles.<br><br>I=
 rebuilt the O/D myself, and I think I did OK except I may not have gotten =
the planetary gears depth exactly right; I didn't have a selection of =
thrust washers to try so I just put the existing one back in. The only =
thing I changed out was the thrust ring bearing, which might have been a =
different width. The unit did have a very slight vibration, barely =
noticeable through the floorboards but otherwise operated perfectly. Now, =
when it works, it seems fine. When I rebuilt the gearbox the rearmost =
thrust washer was whacked (see pic), but of course I replaced it (how that =
could happen and why the O/D worked is another mystery). I couldn't get the=
 GB and O/D to mate up so I took them to BCS where David Nock got them =
together and set the operating shaft lift. Besides trying a new relay at =
Tom Monaco's suggestion I haven't done anything else to it.<br><br>Only =
thing I can guess is maybe the lever that the solenoid lifts to turn the =
valve operating cam maybe slips sometimes and not others.=
<br><br>Bob<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 10/24/2025 8:00=
 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-family: =
Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">That does defy logic Bob.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, =
Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Can you give a =
little history, has it always been this way or did you change something? =
Did the problem develop slowly or over time?</div>
<div =
style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Anything else that may be =
relevant?</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, =
-apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, =
-apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;">M</div>
<div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" =
style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style=3D"font-family:=
 Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, =
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</div>
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id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-signature" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, =
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<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, =
-apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;">&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display: inline-block; width: =
98%;">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg"><strong>From:</strong> Healeys <a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> on behalf of Bob Spidell =
via Healeys <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox=
.team.net">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br><strong>Sent:</strong> =
Friday, October 24, 2025 8:41:36 PM<br><strong>To:</strong> Healeys <a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br><strong>Subject:</strong> =
[Healeys] Overdrive Conundrum
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment">
<div class=3D"PlainText">Listers,<br><br>I =
have a problem with my BJ8's overdrive that defies conventional logic: =
<br>The O/D will not engage when the drivetrain is cold, but begins to =
<br>function more-or-less normally as the drivetrain gets fully heated-up =
<br>(15-20m on a warm day). I've checked the functioning of the =
electricals; <br>i.e. when not running I can a) disconnect the coil ground =
so as not to <br>fry the Pertonix Ignitor, b) place the gearbox in 3rd or =
4th and c) <br>close either, or both, the dash switch and/or the switch on =
the shift <br>knob --they're wired in parallel so either one will engage =
the O/D, but <br>both need to be in off/open condition to disengage--and I =
can hear the <br>solenoid click firmly (this pretty much rules out the =
switches). I have <br>already replaced the scuttle relay to no effect (I =
have had them get <br>flaky). AFAIK, the throttle/'kickdown' switch only =
comes into play when <br>disengaging, and seems to work when the O/D does =
engage.<br><br>My thinking is, if the pump is failed or failing the O/D =
might work when <br>the fluid is cold but cease to function as the fluid =
heats up and thins <br>out (I've used Redline MT-90 successfully for over =
100K miles or more; <br>it's equivalent to 50wt engine oil). But, the O/D =
not engaging when cold <br>(somewhat) refutes this theory. If the outlet =
check valve on the pump <br>was somehow boogered I would expect either a) =
cold function only, or b) <br>no function at all. Ditto the solenoid; I'd =
expect it to get flakey when <br>hot and it does 'click' reliably (when =
cold). I can imagine the lever on <br>the operating cam slipping, but =
wouldn't expect that to vary with <br>temperature (or to work at all, =
actually). Actuating shaft lift was <br>correctly set at rebuild. I do have=
 a DWM 'uprated' accumulator <br>installed, and the O/D engages within 2 =
seconds when it functions.<br><br>Anyone had this condition, or have a =
theory as to why it behaves this <br>way? Next step would be to remove the =
console and confirm I have good <br>oil pressure (but if I do, then what?).=
<br><br>TIA,<br>Bob<br>_______________________________________________<br>S=
upport Team.Net <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual =
donation&nbsp; $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
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href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><a =
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com</a><br><br></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br><br></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============1657934711284391079==--

---

From: Hank Leach via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2025 18:23:35 +0000 X05ptKOHv3SuKH+KMsYKIl5JuqQCxBIXFLLV83HDvREm5tWySUIsJ2KOoTS54U+tzvjZV6YN+MkHOTIuBGtr9SuYKHl+0f5Z/T0laBT4glsfVjnPEtrKzmai 0+dWuq8HxPqAmJQpsLgk3Q==

----_NmP-2fd2de6d9fd4e1d8-Part_1
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<div>Lots of old wives tales with Healeys...what to believe is why we have =
this forum. I try to follow recommendations from the factory in all =
procedures just to be safe (remember there was a limited warranty from =
Austin)</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Here are two recommendations that =
address the issue of what oil to use. I use the 30WND in all my rebuilds.No=
 problems yet.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I think that Vintage spent =
quite a bit of time filling, testing and refilling the units to get test =
results that are most interesting. The service Journal was a follow up to =
the workshop manual to guide field repairs of these cars.&nbsp; As Club =
Historian I try to keep track of all correspondence about these old duffers=
.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Laycock had to agree with the factory =
recommendation as it was connected by a common passage. Hank</div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "Michael Salter" &lt;michael.=
[email-masked]&gt; <br>To: &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "Bob Spidell" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "Healey team" &lt;[email-masked]&gt; =
<br>Sent: October 25, 2025 at 10:42 AM PDT <br>Subject: Re: Re: [Healeys] =
Overdrive Conundrum </div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, =
Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;">Hank, I have never be able to find any recommendation =
from Laycock De Normanville which recommend any particular oil for one of =
their overdrive units.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, =
Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">I wrote </span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, =
255, 255);">to the company (</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">back in=
 the day when one sent letters through the mail, many decades ago) and =
asked what lubricant they recommended and they replied that the lubricant =
was specified by the gearbox manufacturer.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, =
Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">This 30 weight =
non-detergent thing is nothing more than an "old wives tale".</div>
<div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" style=3D"font-family: =
Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, =
Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-signatur=
e" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto,=
 Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div =
style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">M</div>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div =
id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg"><strong>From:</strong> Hank Leach &lt;gradea1@charter.=
net&gt;<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Saturday, October 25, 2025 12:52:20 =
PM<br><strong>To:</strong> Michael Salter &lt;[email-masked]&gt;;=
 Bob Spidell &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Healey team &lt;healeys@autox.=
team.net&gt;<br><strong>Subject:</strong> RE: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive =
Conundrum
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>The required clearance for =
the sunwheel is .016-.020" If you swapped out the bearing there could be a =
difference from original. Moss and AH Spares sell the various sized steel =
washers depending on the reading you get. Typically, after many miles, that=
 rear bronze washer is cracked or worn and should be replaced.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The factory(when there was one) recommended to only =
use <span style=3D"text-decoration: underline;"> 30W Non Detergent</span> =
oil as others tended to foam and cause pressure issues. Also to be sure it =
is properly topped up- #1-key reason to not work.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Before you tear it down, why not just change the oil as recommended =
and see if there is a difference-easiest fix at this point. If not the =
problem then it needs to come out and repair. Hank</div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "Bob Spidell via Healeys" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br>Reply-To: "Bob Spidell" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br>To: "Michael Salter" &lt;michael.=
[email-masked]&gt;, "Healeys" &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br>Sent: =
October 24, 2025 at 9:38 PM PDT <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive =
Conundrum <br>Hi Michael,<br><br>I rebuilt the gearbox and O/D probably =
about 7-8 years or so ago. I've probably put close to 10K miles on it since=
, but not too many since I moved to the Central Valley. For the last few =
years it's been mostly short and day trips every month or two so, it's been=
 mostly sedentary. A few months ago I took it out for a spin and noticed =
the O/D wouldn't engage at first but would start working normally after =
maybe 20 minutes of driving. In subsequent runs it's more not engaging, =
until a few days ago I'd decided I would likely have to pull the gearbox =
and O/D, but had to pull it out to get it off the QuickJack underneath it =
and, to my surprise it started to work OK again after 15-20 miles.<br><br>I=
 rebuilt the O/D myself, and I think I did OK except I may not have gotten =
the planetary gears depth exactly right; I didn't have a selection of =
thrust washers to try so I just put the existing one back in. The only =
thing I changed out was the thrust ring bearing, which might have been a =
different width. The unit did have a very slight vibration, barely =
noticeable through the floorboards but otherwise operated perfectly. Now, =
when it works, it seems fine. When I rebuilt the gearbox the rearmost =
thrust washer was whacked (see pic), but of course I replaced it (how that =
could happen and why the O/D worked is another mystery). I couldn't get the=
 GB and O/D to mate up so I took them to BCS where David Nock got them =
together and set the operating shaft lift. Besides trying a new relay at =
Tom Monaco's suggestion I haven't done anything else to it.<br><br>Only =
thing I can guess is maybe the lever that the solenoid lifts to turn the =
valve operating cam maybe slips sometimes and not others.=
<br><br>Bob<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"x_moz-cite-prefix">On 10/24/2025 =
8:00 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div =
style=3D"font-family: Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,=
Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">That does defy logic Bob.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,=
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Can you give a little history=
, has it always been this way or did you change something? Did the problem =
develop slowly or over time?</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos,=
Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;">Anything else that may be relevant?</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,=
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,=
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">M</div>
<div id=3D"x_ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" style=3D"font-family: =
Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;">
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,=
-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;">&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature" =
style=3D"font-family: Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,=
Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos,=
Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display: inline-block; =
width: 98%;">
<div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg"><strong>From:</strong> Healeys <a=
 class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.=
team.net"> &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> on behalf of Bob =
Spidell via Healeys <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"> &lt;[email-masked].=
net&gt;</a><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, October 24, 2025 8:41:36 =
PM<br><strong>To:</strong> Healeys <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"> &lt;[email-masked].=
net&gt;</a><br><strong>Subject:</strong> [Healeys] Overdrive Conundrum
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_BodyFragment">
<div class=3D"x_PlainText">Listers,<br><br>I have a problem with my BJ8's =
overdrive that defies conventional logic: <br>The O/D will not engage when =
the drivetrain is cold, but begins to <br>function more-or-less normally as=
 the drivetrain gets fully heated-up <br>(15-20m on a warm day). I've =
checked the functioning of the electricals; <br>i.e. when not running I can=
 a) disconnect the coil ground so as not to <br>fry the Pertonix Ignitor, =
b) place the gearbox in 3rd or 4th and c) <br>close either, or both, the =
dash switch and/or the switch on the shift <br>knob --they're wired in =
parallel so either one will engage the O/D, but <br>both need to be in =
off/open condition to disengage--and I can hear the <br>solenoid click =
firmly (this pretty much rules out the switches). I have <br>already =
replaced the scuttle relay to no effect (I have had them get <br>flaky). =
AFAIK, the throttle/'kickdown' switch only comes into play when =
<br>disengaging, and seems to work when the O/D does engage.<br><br>My =
thinking is, if the pump is failed or failing the O/D might work when =
<br>the fluid is cold but cease to function as the fluid heats up and thins=
 <br>out (I've used Redline MT-90 successfully for over 100K miles or more;=
 <br>it's equivalent to 50wt engine oil). But, the O/D not engaging when =
cold <br>(somewhat) refutes this theory. If the outlet check valve on the =
pump <br>was somehow boogered I would expect either a) cold function only, =
or b) <br>no function at all. Ditto the solenoid; I'd expect it to get =
flakey when <br>hot and it does 'click' reliably (when cold). I can imagine=
 the lever on <br>the operating cam slipping, but wouldn't expect that to =
vary with <br>temperature (or to work at all, actually). Actuating shaft =
lift was <br>correctly set at rebuild. I do have a DWM 'uprated' =
accumulator <br>installed, and the O/D engages within 2 seconds when it =
functions.<br><br>Anyone had this condition, or have a theory as to why it =
behaves this <br>way? Next step would be to remove the console and confirm =
I have good <br>oil pressure (but if I do, then what?).<br><br>TIA,=
<br>Bob<br>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.=
Net <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate=
.html"> http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual =
donation&nbsp; $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"> http://www.team.=
net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys"> http://autox.team.=
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href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><a =
class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://autox.team.=
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com</a><br><br></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br><br></div>
</div>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: pieter scheenhouwer via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 15:57:33 +1000

--===============7146714352135757952==
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Bob,<div>&nbsp;Is your OD issue a time or t=
emp issue? You said it started working once the car warmed &nbsp;up after a f=
ew miles. If you pull over once the OD starts working, leave the car in 4th (=
 clutch in of course) and select and deselect the OD a few times, that shoul=
d release any built up pressure. If the OD works when you drive off then it a=
ppears to be temp related, if it doesn=E2=80=99t work for a number of miles t=
hen it appears the pump is taking time to build pressure in the accumulator.=
 Worn pump or blocked filter maybe?</div><div>Regards</div><div>Piet<br id=3D=
"lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPad</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 27 Oct 2025, at 2:59=E2=80=AF=
pm, Bob Spidell via Healeys &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></b=
lockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8"=
 =20
 =20
    When I first started using MT-90 in my BJ8 I changed out the fluid
    at 15K miles (Norman Nock's recommended interval). I drained into a
    perfectly clean pan, took the fluid out into the bright sunlight and
    observed it had what I called 'shake;' shiny brass particles
    floating in the amber fluid. It was quite pretty, like a super fine
    metal flake paint, but the brass particles were so fine you could
    rub the oil between your fingers and not feel a thing. In short,
    they were too small to plug any of the passages in an O/D. Anyone
    who's rebuilt a Healey/Mowog gearbox knows the brass shift forks are
    a consumable item (and easily restored). Note quality greases are
    merely oil thickened with a very finely ground, soft metal; e.g.
    lithium, molybdenum ('moly'). The cheap stuff usually uses
    diatomaceous earth.&nbsp;<br>
    <br>
    The only (supposed) reason I've ever heard for using non-detergent
    oil in a gearbox is to let the brass, and other contaminants settle
    into a sludge at the bottom of the gearbox, so it doesn't circulate
    through the O/D and possibly plug one of the small passages (anybody
    heard a different 'logic?). But, the job of a detergent is to clean
    contaminants--soot, etc.--from the combustion chambers and,&nbsp; in
    particular, ring lands. It's the job of ashless dispersants to keep
    particulates suspended in the oil, so as NOT to contribute to sludge
    buildup, so spec'ing an AD oil<i> might</i>&nbsp;make some sense (but
    what happens when a chunk of sludge starts migrating around the
    gearbox; blood clot anybody?). Note I read somewhere, but can't
    provide a source, that ZDDP was first added to oil as a detergent,
    before its anti-wear properties were known (rule of thumb: if
    something has 'phosphate' in its chemical name it likely has
    detergent properties).&nbsp;<br>
    <br>
    Some differences are pointed out here:<br>
    <br>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.cnlubricantadditive.c=
om/info/difference-between-dispersants-and-dertergents-91273973.html">https:=
//www.cnlubricantadditive.com/info/difference-between-dispersants-and-derter=
gents-91273973.html</a><br>
    <br>
    Our mechanics always insisted we use AD/mineral oil for engine
    break-in in our aircraft engines--no mention of
    'non-detergent'--because air-cooled aircraft engine cylinders are
    notoriously tricky to break-in properly due to the loose clearances
    and (sometimes) chrome cylinder coatings. AD oil was thought to help
    'wear in' the rings (when the break-in failed I've heard of owners
    putting Bon Ami in the cylinders). AFAIK, most modern, off-the-shelf
    oils contain both dispersants and detergents.&nbsp;<br>
    <br>
    Their is a cadre of owners and mechanics that seem to think our cars
    should only get the oils, etc. that were available when the cars
    were first manufactured, ignoring the tremendous advances in
    lubricant science ('tribology') in the last 70 years or so. I've
    attached the recommended lubricant chart from the Bentley reprint
    for the 6-cyl cars, showing how the recommendations 'evolved' as
    multi-vis oils became available--early 60s, I think--and no mention
    of 'non-detergent.' I don't see any particular advantage to using a
    multi-vis in a gearbox; I suspect BMC simply wanted to limit the
    types of oil the mechanics had to stock, and engine oil was good
    enough (I suppose a mult-vis might shift a little better when cold,
    but I ran Castrol 20W-50 for a few years and didn't notice any
    benefit; admittedly in a temperate climate).&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
    <br>
    When I overhauled my gearbox/OD at 205K miles there was only slight
    wear on the leading edge of 2nd gear. The O/D accumulator showed
    typical scoring, and I replaced one bearing that probably didn't
    need to be replaced, but otherwise all the moving parts were
    pristine, the O/D screen had just a few small particles and the cone
    clutch had significant material left and I put it back in (they
    appear to be of limited supply; DWM relines them). Not a spec of
    'sludge' anywhere.<br>
    <br>
    Redline MTL has equivalent viscosity to 30WT motor oil; MT-90 is
    equivalent to 50WT. Yes, synthetic oils may leak a little more, but
    I ran my old Lincoln LS with a Jaguar engine on 5W-30 full synthetic
    and it didn't leak a drop. Go figure.&nbsp;<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 10/26/2025 5:12 PM, Roger Grace
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:CALPtYiN-NuwJ091Mbdt0je51tO+A-KsFk=
[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-=
8">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">OK have
          resisted commenting on this controversial topic&nbsp;for a few
          years.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Long story
          about OD oil to&nbsp;add to the oil confusion.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I have made
          up a VS test rig for running a GB plus OD at different speeds.</di=
v>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Very useful
          for&nbsp;functional and OD oil leak hunting</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Several
          years&nbsp;ago, after a rebuild I filled with Castrol 30WT ND oil -=

          no issues OD engaged fine.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">On same GB
          after a few days after running for 2-3 mins from cold, drained
          the oil (to fix a leak) and&nbsp;noted very significant foaming
          with the classic fish eye bubbles.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">The GB oil
          seemed foamier than the OD</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Repeated this=

          test and same story.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Also 2 others=

          observed the same foaming,&nbsp;and on one was so bad that OD woul=
d
          not engage.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">We all
          changed to MT90.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Out of
          curiosity wrote to Castrol about this.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">See reply
          below.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">
          <p><i><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">"Thank you
                for contacting Castrol North<br>
                America.</span></i></p>
          <p><i><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Castrol does
                not recommend our Non-Detergent for manual transmission
                applications, and we believe the foaming was likely
                caused<br>
                by some type of contamination, perhaps water in the<br>
                transmission.</span></i></p>
          <p><i><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Unfortunately
                Castrol does not offer a manual transmission<br>
                fluid product in Canada or the US.</span></i></p>
          <p><i><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Castrol
                Consumer Relations"</span></i></p>
          <p><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">There certainly
              was no moisture in the tranny.</span></p>
          <p><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Not sure if
              foaming is a bad thing ?&nbsp;What is disturbing is that if I
              hadn't drained the oil I would have been none the wiser
              about the foaming. Maybe this is normal. I suspect that it
              disappears after some use and only evident soon after
              starting ?</span></p>
          <p><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">To hopefully
              reduce&nbsp;pesky weeping leaks now use regular engine oil
              20-50 VR1&nbsp;</span></p>
          <p><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">rg</span></p>
          <p><br>
          </p>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at
          3:56=E2=80=AFPM Mike Sinclair via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:he=
[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetex=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
            <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">Interesting, the comment on
                Redline.&nbsp; I have used it in my ancient Honda and the
                gearbox noises went away.</font></p>
            <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">Mike</font></p>
            <div>On 10/26/25 5:53 AM, Simon Lachlan via Healeys wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
              <div>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Just to keep the pot
                    boiling=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6when=
 I was up at OD Spares talking to
                    Dave Twigger, I asked him which oil to use in my OD.
                    =E2=80=9C20-50=E2=80=9D, he replied very firmly. Over he=
re, UK, OD
                    Spares is somewhat regarded in the same light as AH
                    Spares. Dave=E2=80=99s father-in-law worked for Laycock a=
nd,
                    when they stopped manufacturing ODs, he bought all
                    the remaining stock and started up on his own. (Or
                    something similar=E2=80=A6..Dave did tell me but ages ag=
o).
                    Anyhow, I=E2=80=99d say that Dave and son are our leadin=
g OD
                    experts. His workshop is surprisingly small and
                    slightly scruffy but is stuffed with all the right
                    spares, test beds and spares. Michael, I recall you
                    saying the same.</span></p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I have to say that I use 30
                    or 40 non-detergent, which he says is fine. After
                    fixing my OD, he put my 30 wt back in perfectly
                    happily. He was absolutely against Redline and
                    similar products=E2=80=A6..</span></p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Simon</span></p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;</span></p>
                <div>
                  <div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:=
solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padd=
ing:3pt 0cm 0cm">
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Healeys <a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox=
.team.net" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">&lt;healeys-bounces@au=
tox.team.net&gt;</a>
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Salter<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> 25 October 2025 18:42<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">gra=
[email-masked]</a>;
                        Bob Spidell <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>;
                        Healey team <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<=
/a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Overdrive
                        Conundrum</span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                <div>
                  <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hank, I have never be able to
                    find any recommendation from Laycock De Normanville
                    which recommend any particular oil for one of their
                    overdrive units.</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I wrote <span style=3D"color:black;=
background:white">to the
                      company (</span>back in the day when one sent
                    letters through the mail, many decades ago) and
                    asked what lubricant they recommended and they
                    replied that the lubricant was specified by the
                    gearbox manufacturer.</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class=3D"MsoNormal">This 30 weight non-detergent
                    thing is nothing more than an "old wives tale".</p>
                </div>
                <div id=3D"m_8180538750141781548ms-outlook-mobile-body-separ=
ator-line">
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div id=3D"m_8180538750141781548ms-outlook-mobile-signature"=
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">M</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-alig=
n:center">
                  <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center"></div>
                <div id=3D"m_8180538750141781548divRplyFwdMsg">
                  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:blac=
k">
                      Hank Leach &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">gr=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 25, 2025 12:52:20
                      PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michae=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-=
txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;;
                      Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt;;
                      Healey team &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetex=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> RE: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive
                      Conundrum</span> </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The required clearance for the
                      sunwheel is 016-.020" If you swapped out the
                      bearing there could be a difference from original.
                      Moss and AH Spares sell the various sized steel
                      washers depending on the reading you get.
                      Typically, after many miles, that rear bronze
                      washer is cracked or worn and should be replaced.</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The factory(when there was one)
                      recommended to only use <u>30W Non Detergent</u>
                      oil as others tended to foam and cause pressure
                      issues. Also to be sure it is properly topped up-
                      #1-key reason to not work.</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before you tear it down, why
                      not just change the oil as recommended and see if
                      there is a difference-easiest fix at this point.
                      If not the problem then it needs to come out and
                      repair. Hank</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><br>=

                      -------------------- <br>
                      <br>
                      From: "Bob Spidell via Healeys" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"=
moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      <br>
                      Reply-To: "Bob Spidell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell=
@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-li=
nk-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      <br>
                      To: "Michael Salter" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael.sal=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-l=
ink-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,
                      "Healeys" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      <br>
                      Sent: October 24, 2025 at 9:38 PM PDT <br>
                      Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Conundrum <br>
                      Hi Michael,<br>
                      <br>
                      I rebuilt the gearbox and O/D probably about 7-8
                      years or so ago. I've probably put close to 10K
                      miles on it since, but not too many since I moved
                      to the Central Valley. For the last few years it's
                      been mostly short and day trips every month or two
                      so, it's been mostly sedentary. A few months ago I
                      took it out for a spin and noticed the O/D
                      wouldn't engage at first but would start working
                      normally after maybe 20 minutes of driving. In
                      subsequent runs it's more not engaging, until a
                      few days ago I'd decided I would likely have to
                      pull the gearbox and O/D, but had to pull it out
                      to get it off the QuickJack underneath it and, to
                      my surprise it started to work OK again after
                      15-20 miles.<br>
                      <br>
                      I rebuilt the O/D myself, and I think I did OK
                      except I may not have gotten the planetary gears
                      depth exactly right; I didn't have a selection of
                      thrust washers to try so I just put the existing
                      one back in. The only thing I changed out was the
                      thrust ring bearing, which might have been a
                      different width. The unit did have a very slight
                      vibration, barely noticeable through the
                      floorboards but otherwise operated perfectly. Now,
                      when it works, it seems fine. When I rebuilt the
                      gearbox the rearmost thrust washer was whacked
                      (see pic), but of course I replaced it (how that
                      could happen and why the O/D worked is another
                      mystery). I couldn't get the GB and O/D to mate up
                      so I took them to BCS where David Nock got them
                      together and set the operating shaft lift. Besides
                      trying a new relay at Tom Monaco's suggestion I
                      haven't done anything else to it.<br>
                      <br>
                      Only thing I can guess is maybe the lever that the
                      solenoid lifts to turn the valve operating cam
                      maybe slips sometimes and not others.<br>
                      <br>
                      Bob</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 10/24/2025 8:00 PM, Michael
                      Salter wrote:</p>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                    <div>
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">That does defy logic Bob.</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Can you give a little
                        history, has it always been this way or did you
                        change something? Did the problem develop slowly
                        or over time?</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anything else that may be
                        relevant?</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">M</p>
                    </div>
                    <div id=3D"m_8180538750141781548x_ms-outlook-mobile-body=
-separator-line">
                      <div>
                        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div id=3D"m_8180538750141781548x_ms-outlook-mobile-sign=
ature">
                      <div>
                        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-=
align:center">
                      <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center"></div>
                    <div id=3D"m_8180538750141781548x_divRplyFwdMsg">
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></strong>
                        Healeys <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">&lt;[email-masked]=
eam.net&gt;</a>
                        on behalf of Bob Spidell via Healeys <a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">&lt;he=
[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
                        <strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;=
,sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong>
                        Friday, October 24, 2025 8:41:36 PM<br>
                        <strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;=
,sans-serif">To:</span></strong>
                        Healeys <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><=
br>
                        <strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;=
,sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong>
                        [Healeys] Overdrive Conundrum </p>
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                        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
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                      <div>
                        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">=
Listers,<br>
                          <br>
                          I have a problem with my BJ8's overdrive that
                          defies conventional logic: <br>
                          The O/D will not engage when the drivetrain is
                          cold, but begins to <br>
                          function more-or-less normally as the
                          drivetrain gets fully heated-up <br>
                          (15-20m on a warm day). I've checked the
                          functioning of the electricals; <br>
                          i.e. when not running I can a) disconnect the
                          coil ground so as not to <br>
                          fry the Pertonix Ignitor, b) place the gearbox
                          in 3rd or 4th and c) <br>
                          close either, or both, the dash switch and/or
                          the switch on the shift <br>
                          knob --they're wired in parallel so either one
                          will engage the O/D, but <br>
                          both need to be in off/open condition to
                          disengage--and I can hear the <br>
                          solenoid click firmly (this pretty much rules
                          out the switches). I have <br>
                          already replaced the scuttle relay to no
                          effect (I have had them get <br>
                          flaky). AFAIK, the throttle/'kickdown' switch
                          only comes into play when <br>
                          disengaging, and seems to work when the O/D
                          does engage.<br>
                          <br>
                          My thinking is, if the pump is failed or
                          failing the O/D might work when <br>
                          the fluid is cold but cease to function as the
                          fluid heats up and thins <br>
                          out (I've used Redline MT-90 successfully for
                          over 100K miles or more; <br>
                          it's equivalent to 50wt engine oil). But, the
                          O/D not engaging when cold <br>
                          (somewhat) refutes this theory. If the outlet
                          check valve on the pump <br>
                          was somehow boogered I would expect either a)
                          cold function only, or b) <br>
                          no function at all. Ditto the solenoid; I'd
                          expect it to get flakey when <br>
                          hot and it does 'click' reliably (when cold).
                          I can imagine the lever on <br>
                          the operating cam slipping, but wouldn't
                          expect that to vary with <br>
                          temperature (or to work at all, actually).
                          Actuating shaft lift was <br>
                          correctly set at rebuild. I do have a DWM
                          'uprated' accumulator <br>
                          installed, and the O/D engages within 2
                          seconds when it functions.<br>
                          <br>
                          Anyone had this condition, or have a theory as
                          to why it behaves this <br>
                          way? Next step would be to remove the console
                          and confirm I have good <br>
                          oil pressure (but if I do, then what?).<br>
                          <br>
                          TIA,<br>
                          Bob<br>
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