Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Relay

From: Bob Spidell via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 07:11:33 -0700

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Yes, there are crap solenoids in the wild (side note: there's also 
rumors that bad actors were buying surplus Lucas boxes and putting 
Chinese crap in them).

Years ago, our own Michael Salter acquired some legit Lucas/quality 
solenoids and offered them for sale. For once, I was smart enough to 
grab one even though I didn't need it at the time, but did a few years 
later. Since the plunger shouldn't wear, and the windings should last a 
long time the most likely failure point is, well, the points (there are 
two in the solenoids: a momentary 'pull up' set and a 'sustain' set--why 
the circuit should have a slow blow fuse). I don't know if they have any 
internal arc protection, but you could probably rig something external, 
though given the cycles the solenoid experiences it shouldn't really be 
an issue. Same issue is in points ignition and our beloved S.U. fuel 
pumps: arcing across the points when a coil field collapses causes 
erosion of the points due to metal transfer. Capacitors ('condensers') 
and diodes can mitigate erosion but, eventually, the points will pit and 
possibly stick.

On 9/23/2024 1:48 AM, Simon Lachlan via Healeys wrote:
>
> The other day my overdrive stopped working. (For the nth time. Toyota 
> 5 speed please Santa).
>
> Anyhow, it failed what I called the “click test” so I was 99%sure that 
> the fault was electric.First off, it’s fused so the wiring was 
> unlikely to be fried and the fuse had not blownThe relay passed its 
> bench test and thethrottle switch was OK.So, I was pretty sure it was 
> the solenoid…..maybe the gearstick switch but didn’t seem likely.
>
> So, I dismantled down to the solenoid. Not too serious in a BT7and 
> much helped by having tunnel cover held down by stainless steelscrews 
> into rivnuts.
>
> Put a test lampin lieu of the solenoid. Lamp lit up when OD was “On” 
> and stick was to the right. So, the problem WAS in the solenoid and 
> final proof was its replacement by a spare which solved the problem.
>
> I took the rubber cover off the top and there was no evidence offrying 
> etc. All looked good.The solenoid was dead as a dodo….putting it 
> across a spare 12v battery didn’t induce a soundor a twitch.
>
> Now, the question(s)……are there dud ones out there? Why/howdid it fail?
>
> Just curious…….
>
> Simon
>
>
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    Yes, there are crap solenoids in the wild (side note: there's also
    rumors that bad actors were buying surplus Lucas boxes and putting
    Chinese crap in them).<br>
    <br>
    Years ago, our own Michael Salter acquired some legit Lucas/quality
    solenoids and offered them for sale. For once, I was smart enough to
    grab one even though I didn't need it at the time, but did a few
    years later. Since the plunger shouldn't wear, and the windings
    should last a long time the most likely failure point is, well, the
    points (there are two in the solenoids: a momentary 'pull up' set
    and a 'sustain' set--why the circuit should have a slow blow fuse).
    I don't know if they have any internal arc protection, but you could
    probably rig something external, though given the cycles the
    solenoid experiences it shouldn't really be an issue. Same issue is
    in points ignition and our beloved S.U. fuel pumps: arcing across
    the points when a coil field collapses causes erosion of the points
    due to metal transfer. Capacitors ('condensers') and diodes can
    mitigate erosion but, eventually, the points will pit and possibly
    stick.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/23/2024 1:48 AM, Simon Lachlan via
      Healeys wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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      <!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">The
            other day my overdrive stopped working. (For the nth time.
            Toyota 5 sp</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"><font
            face="Times New Roman">eed please Santa).</font></span></p>
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">Anyhow,
            it failed what I called the “click test” so I was 99%</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman"> sure that the fault
            was electric.</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"> <font
            face="Times New Roman">First off, it’s fused so the wiring
            was unlikely to be fried and the fuse had not blown</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"> <font face="Times New Roman">The relay passed
            its bench test and the</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"> <font
            face="Times New Roman">throttle switch was OK.</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"> <font face="Times New Roman">So, I was pre</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">tty sure it was the
            solenoid…..maybe the gearstick switch but didn’t seem
            likely.</font></span></p>
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">So, I
            di</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">smantled down to the
            solenoid. Not too serious in a BT7</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"> <font face="Times New Roman">and much helped by
            having tunnel cover held down by stainless steel</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"> <font face="Times New Roman">screws into
            rivnuts.</font></span></p>
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">Put a
            test lamp</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"> <font
            face="Times New Roman">in lieu of the solenoid. Lamp lit up
            when OD was “On” and stick was to the right</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">. So, the problem
            WAS in the solenoid and final proof was its replacement by a
            spare which solved the problem.</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span></p>
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">I
            took the rubber cover off the top and there was no evidence
            of</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman"> frying etc. All
            looked good.</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"><font
            face="Times New Roman"> The solenoid was dead as a
            dodo….putting it across a spare 12v batter</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">y didn’t induce a
            sound</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"><font
            face="Times New Roman"> or a twitch</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">.</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span></p>
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">Now,
            the quest</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"><font
            face="Times New Roman">ion(s)……are there dud ones out there?
            Why</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"><font
            face="Times New Roman">/how</font></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"><font
            face="Times New Roman"> did it fail?</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"> </span></p>
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">Just
            curious…….</font></span></p>
      <p dir="LTR"><span lang="en-gb"><font face="Times New Roman">Simon</font></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span><span lang="en-gb"></span><span
          lang="en-gb"></span></p>
      <br>
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_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

--===============6368560418507230212==--

---

From: Robert Markovich via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 21:26:38 +0000 (UTC)

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And of course misadjustment=C2=A0 will burn these out in no time =E2=80=A6

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

On Monday, September 23, 2024, 11:47 AM, Bob Spidell via Healeys <healeys@a=
utox.team.net> wrote:

 Yes, there are crap solenoids in the wild (side note: there's also rumors =
that bad actors were buying surplus Lucas boxes and putting Chinese crap in=
 them).
=20
 Years ago, our own Michael Salter acquired some legit Lucas/quality soleno=
ids and offered them for sale. For once, I was smart enough to grab one eve=
n though I didn't need it at the time, but did a few years later. Since the=
 plunger shouldn't wear, and the windings should last a long time the most =
likely failure point is, well, the points (there are two in the solenoids: =
a momentary 'pull up' set and a 'sustain' set--why the circuit should have =
a slow blow fuse). I don't know if they have any internal arc protection, b=
ut you could probably rig something external, though given the cycles the s=
olenoid experiences it shouldn't really be an issue. Same issue is in point=
s ignition and our beloved S.U. fuel pumps: arcing across the points when a=
 coil field collapses causes erosion of the points due to metal transfer. C=
apacitors ('condensers') and diodes can mitigate erosion but, eventually, t=
he points will pit and possibly stick.
=20
=20
 On 9/23/2024 1:48 AM, Simon Lachlan via Healeys wrote:
 =20
=20

The other day my overdrive stopped working. (For the nth time. Toyota 5 spe=
ed please Santa).
=20
Anyhow, it failed what I called the =E2=80=9Cclick test=E2=80=9D so I was 9=
9% sure that the fault was electric. First off, it=E2=80=99s fused so the w=
iring was unlikely to be fried and the fuse had not blown The relay passed =
its bench test and the throttle switch was OK. So, I was pretty sure it was=
 the solenoid=E2=80=A6..maybe the gearstick switch but didn=E2=80=99t seem =
likely.
=20
So, I dismantled down to the solenoid. Not too serious in a BT7 and much he=
lped by having tunnel cover held down by stainless steel screws into rivnut=
s.
=20
Put a test lamp in lieu of the solenoid. Lamp lit up when OD was =E2=80=9CO=
n=E2=80=9D and stick was to the right. So, the problem WAS in the solenoid =
and final proof was its replacement by a spare which solved the problem.
=20
I took the rubber cover off the top and there was no evidence of frying etc=
. All looked good. The solenoid was dead as a dodo=E2=80=A6.putting it acro=
ss a spare 12v battery didn=E2=80=99t induce a sound or a twitch.
=20
Now, the question(s)=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6are there dud ones out there? Why/how=
 did it fail?=20
=20
Just curious=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.
=20
Simon
=20
 _______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e/healeys

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy>
And of course misadjustment&nbsp; will burn these out in no time =E2=80=A6<=
br><br><br><div class=3D"yahoo-signature"><a style=3D"font-size:12px" href=
=3D"https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id646100661"=
>Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS</a><br></div><br><p class=3D"yahoo-q=
uoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: rgb(132, 115, 255); padding-t=
op: 15px; margin-top: 0px;">On Monday, September 23, 2024, 11:47 AM, Bob Sp=
idell via Healeys &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote clas=
s=3D"iosymail"><div id=3D"yiv4478537795"><div>
    Yes, there are crap solenoids in the wild (side note: there's also
    rumors that bad actors were buying surplus Lucas boxes and putting
    Chinese crap in them).<br clear=3D"none">
    <br clear=3D"none">
    Years ago, our own Michael Salter acquired some legit Lucas/quality
    solenoids and offered them for sale. For once, I was smart enough to
    grab one even though I didn't need it at the time, but did a few
    years later. Since the plunger shouldn't wear, and the windings
    should last a long time the most likely failure point is, well, the
    points (there are two in the solenoids: a momentary 'pull up' set
    and a 'sustain' set--why the circuit should have a slow blow fuse).
    I don't know if they have any internal arc protection, but you could
    probably rig something external, though given the cycles the
    solenoid experiences it shouldn't really be an issue. Same issue is
    in points ignition and our beloved S.U. fuel pumps: arcing across
    the points when a coil field collapses causes erosion of the points
    due to metal transfer. Capacitors ('condensers') and diodes can
    mitigate erosion but, eventually, the points will pit and possibly
    stick.<br clear=3D"none">
    <br clear=3D"none">
    <br clear=3D"none">
    <div id=3D"yiv4478537795yqt74551" class=3D"yiv4478537795yqt5655969198">=
<div class=3D"yiv4478537795moz-cite-prefix">On 9/23/2024 1:48 AM, Simon Lac=
hlan via
      Healeys wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      </blockquote></div></div><div id=3D"yiv4478537795yqt96051" class=3D"y=
iv4478537795yqt5655969198"><title></title><div><p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D=
"en-gb">The
            other day my overdrive stopped working. (For the nth time.
            Toyota 5 sp</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-=
gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span la=
ng=3D"en-gb">eed please Santa).</span></p>
      <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb">Anyhow,
            it failed what I called the =E2=80=9Cclick test=E2=80=9D so I w=
as 99%</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> sur=
e that the fault
            was electric.</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"e=
n-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"> First off, it=E2=80=99s fused so the wiring
            was unlikely to be fried and the fuse had not blown</span><span=
 lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></s=
pan><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> The relay passed
            its bench test and the</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"> throttle switch was OK.</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"=
></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> So, I was pre</span><span lang=3D"e=
n-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb">tty sure it was the
            solenoid=E2=80=A6..maybe the gearstick switch but didn=E2=80=99=
t seem
            likely.</span></p>
      <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb">So, I
            di</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></spa=
n><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-=
gb">smantled down to the
            solenoid. Not too serious in a BT7</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><=
/span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D=
"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> and much helped by
            having tunnel cover held down by stainless steel</span><span la=
ng=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span=
><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> screws into
            rivnuts.</span></p>
      <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb">Put a
            test lamp</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb=
"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb"> in lieu of the solenoid. Lamp lit up
            when OD was =E2=80=9COn=E2=80=9D and stick was to the right</sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en=
-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb">. So, the prob=
lem
            WAS in the solenoid and final proof was its replacement by a
            spare which solved the problem.</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en=
-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span></p>
      <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb">I
            took the rubber cover off the top and there was no evidence
            of</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></spa=
n><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-=
gb"> frying etc. All
            looked good.</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en=
-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span l=
ang=3D"en-gb"> The solenoid was dead as a
            dodo=E2=80=A6.putting it across a spare 12v batter</span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb">y didn=E2=80=99t induce=
 a
            sound</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></=
span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-gb"> or a twitch</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb">=
</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb">.</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span>=
<span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb=
"></span></p>
      <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb">Now,
            the quest</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb=
"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb">ion(s)=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6are there dud ones out there?
            Why</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en=
-gb">/how</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><sp=
an lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> =
did it fail?</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span>=
<span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb=
"> </span></p>
      <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb">Just
            curious=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.</span></p>
      <p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb">Simon</span><span lang=3D"en-gb">=
</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span></p>
      <br clear=3D"none">
   =20
  </div></div></div><div class=3D"yqt5655969198" id=3D"yqt87681">__________=
_____________________________________<br clear=3D"none">Support Team.Net <a=
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tion&nbsp; $12.75<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D=
"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://aut=
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