Subject: [Healeys] Counterfeit Numbers

From: HealeyRick <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:37:56 -0400

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In watching various auctions of high-end Healeys, particularly Ms, I read
opinions that it would be very difficult to counterfeit all the identifying
numbers on a Healey. My question for the better informed would it really be
that difficult to get dies made up to punch realistic numbers, grind off
the old numbers on the trim pieces and body panels and make up some ID
plates?  If cars are worth over $150k, I would think it would be a
relatively small investment in tooling and with all the scanning equipment
we have now, I can't see it being that difficult.

Don't worry, not asking for a friend.

Rick Neville

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<div dir=3D"ltr">In watching various auctions of high-end Healeys, particul=
arly Ms, I read opinions that it would be very difficult to counterfeit all=
 the identifying numbers on a Healey. My question for the better informed w=
ould it really be that difficult to get dies made up to punch realistic num=
bers, grind off the old numbers on the trim pieces and body panels and make=
 up some ID plates?=C2=A0 If cars are worth over $150k, I would think it wo=
uld be a relatively small investment in tooling and with all the scanning e=
quipment we have now, I can&#39;t see it being that difficult.<div><br></di=
v><div>Don&#39;t worry, not asking for a friend.</div><div><br></div><div>R=
ick Neville</div></div>

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_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

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From: Henry G Leach via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 20:16:13 +0000 boundary="=_80fd21bd5c69f0a9f5572887cda6f301" Pa2MKZ+mO6es4MYWfTqp5e9lmuSkmnfMZ3YucJM7rgB+8kn+Hy18q4m7LFk/hijvPPCJqp6j6ZlS5etlA9zVXHzeBk4UTeyNgR74/ZhVUZRlEYWYmaxqg5Fs rIHLZ57sujObYuK7g0NfbQ==

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Why bother to re-stamp-if you need some cockpit surrounds and door=0Atri=
m here is a whole pile that was for sale when "S replica"=0Amanufacturer=
 went belly up. Even easier to make up an "authentic M".=0AHank=0A=0A=09=
-----------------------------------------From: "Curtis Arndt" =0ATo: "He=
aleyRick"=0ACc: "Healeys"=0ASent: Tuesday August 16 2022 10:04:23AM=0ASu=
bject: Re: [Healeys] Counterfeit Numbers=0A=0A Rick, =0A I posted about=
 this exact subject in comment on the first 100M made=0Athat was for sal=
e recently on BaT. =0A If one was willing to invest several thousands of=
 dollars on a new=0Aset of spot on body stamps, you'd be off to a good s=
tart. Several of=0Aus researched having a set of body number stamps made=
 up, but we=0Adecided the cost $5K+ wasn't worth the effort... Duh, we w=
eren't=0Amaking counterfeit Ms! However if you were, it might be worth t=
he=0Aeffort and expense. =0A Just recently, a person in Washington state=
 was selling ALL of the=0Aitems needed for an M, e..g., original louvere=
d bonnet, original AUC=0A6040 AA or X carburetors and manifolds, origina=
l numbered and dated=0Adistributor, etc...  =0A So with the stamps, the=
 aforementioned parts, then find a clapped out=0ABN2 cheap. Then find Fa=
ctory 100M numbers that are currently not in=0Ause (scrapped years ago)=
 and request a heritage certificate. Rebuild=0Athe car, have it judged C=
oncours and get a Bill Meade certificate. =0A Renumber the boot, bonnet=
 and splash apron. Weld in the old numbers=0Aon the cockpit trim, grind=
 and sand smooth, and renumber. EASIER said=0Athan done, the trim warps=
 like nobody's business under welding heat,=0Aplus you'll need to use ol=
d trim aluminum as a welding rod so the=0Acolor matches and you can't se=
e a ghosting of the old numbers.To me=0Athis is the hardest part, and NO=
T cheap. =0A Now this won't be cheap as the number stamps, parts and wel=
ding would=0Acost north of $20K+. However, given Factory 100M premiums,=
 it's=0Apossibly worth the effort. Folks have worked harder to scam for=
 less.=0AJust my 2 cents.  =0A -Curt =0A=0A On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 8:41=
 AM HealeyRick  wrote:=0A  In watching various auctions of high-end Heal=
eys, particularly Ms, I=0Aread opinions that it would be very difficult=
 to counterfeit all the=0Aidentifying numbers on a Healey. My question f=
or the better informed=0Awould it really be that difficult to get dies m=
ade up to punch=0Arealistic numbers, grind off the old numbers on the tr=
im pieces and=0Abody panels and make up some ID plates? If cars are wort=
h over $150k,=0AI would think it would be a relatively small investment=
 in tooling and=0Awith all the scanning equipment we have now, I can't s=
ee it being that=0Adifficult. =0A Don't worry, not asking for a friend.=
 =0A Rick Neville  _______________________________________________=0A Su=
pport Team.Net  [1]http://www.team.net/donate.html [2]=0A Suggested annu=
al donation $12.75=0A=0A Archive:  [3]http://www.team.net/pipermail/heal=
eys [4] =0A[5]http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys [6]=0A=0AHealeys@aut=
ox.team.net=0A [7]http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys [8]=0A=
=0A Unsubscribe/Manage: =0A[9]http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/heal=
eys/[email-masked]=0A[10]=0A=0A  =0A=0ALinks:=0A------=0A[1] http://=
www.team.net/donate.html=0A[2] http://www.team.net/donate.html=0A[3] htt=
p://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys=0A[4] http://www.team.net/pipermail/h=
ealeys=0A[5] http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys=0A[6] http://autox.te=
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eys=0A[8] http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys=0A[9] http://au=
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<html><body>Why bother to re-stamp-if you need some cockpit surrounds an=
d door trim here is a whole pile that was for sale when "S replica" manu=
facturer went belly up. Even easier to make up an "authentic M". Hank<br=
><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>-----------------------=
------------------</p>From: "Curtis Arndt" <[email-masked]><br>To: "=
HealeyRick"<br>Cc: "Healeys"<br>Sent: Tuesday August 16 2022 10:04:23AM<=
br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Counterfeit Numbers<br><br>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Rick,=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>I posted about this exact subject in com=
ment on the first 100M=0Amade that was for sale recently on BaT.</div>=
=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>If one was willing to invest several&nbsp;thou=
sands&nbsp;of=0Adollars on a new set of spot on body stamps, you'd be of=
f to a good=0Astart. Several of us researched having a set of body numbe=
r stamps=0Amade up, but we decided the cost $5K+ wasn't worth the effort=
..=0ADuh, we weren't making counterfeit&nbsp;Ms! However if you were, i=
t=0Amight be worth the effort and expense.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<di=
v>Just recently, a person in Washington state was selling ALL of=0Athe i=
tems needed for an M, e..g., original louvered bonnet,=0Aoriginal AUC 60=
40 AA or X carburetors and manifolds, original=0Anumbered and dated dist=
ributor, etc...&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>So with the s=
tamps, the aforementioned&nbsp;parts, then find a=0Aclapped out BN2 chea=
p.&nbsp; Then find Factory 100M numbers that=0Aare&nbsp;currently&nbsp;n=
ot in use (scrapped years ago) and request=0Aa heritage certificate. Reb=
uild the car, have it judged Concours=0Aand&nbsp;get a Bill Meade certif=
icate.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>Renumber the boot, bonnet and spla=
sh apron. Weld in the old=0Anumbers on the cockpit trim, grind and sand=
 smooth, and&nbsp;=0Arenumber. EASIER said than done, the trim warps lik=
e nobody's=0Abusiness under welding heat, plus you'll need to use old tr=
im=0Aaluminum as a welding rod so the color matches and you can't see a=
=0Aghosting of the old numbers.To me this is the hardest part, and NOT=
=0Acheap.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>Now this won't be cheap as the=
 number stamps,&nbsp;parts and=0Awelding would cost north of $20K+. Howe=
ver, given Factory 100M=0Apremiums, it's possibly worth&nbsp;the&nbsp;ef=
fort. Folks have=0Aworked harder to scam for less. Just my 2 cents.&nbsp=
;</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>-Curt</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div><b=
r></div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 8:41 AM=0AHealeyRick &lt;<a>=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;=0Awrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">In watching various au=
ctions of high-end Healeys,=0Aparticularly Ms, I read opinions that it w=
ould be very difficult to=0Acounterfeit all the identifying numbers on a=
 Healey. My question=0Afor the better informed would it really be that d=
ifficult to get=0Adies made up to punch realistic numbers, grind off the=
 old numbers=0Aon the trim pieces and body panels and make up some ID=0A=
plates?&nbsp; If cars are worth over $150k, I would think it would=0Abe=
 a relatively small investment in tooling and with all the=0Ascanning eq=
uipment we have now, I can't see it being that=0Adifficult.=0A<div><br><=
/div>=0A<div>Don't worry, not asking for a friend.</div>=0A<div><br></di=
v>=0A<div>Rick Neville</div>=0A</div>=0A________________________________=
_______________<br>=0ASupport Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/do=
nate.html"></a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a><br>=0ASuggested annual donation&nbsp; $12.75<br><=
br>=0AArchive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"></a><a=
 href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys">http://www.team.net/pipe=
rmail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys"></a>=
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys">http://autox.team.net/=
archive/healeys</a><br><br><a>[email-masked]</a><br><a href=3D"h=
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info/healeys</a><br><br>=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]"></a><a href=3D"http:=
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x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br><br></block=
quote>=0A</div>=0A</[email-masked]></body></html>

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