Subject: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston

From: Joseph Costa <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 23:09:34 -0400

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Has anyone installed their upgraded overdrive piston?  If so, is it worth
the trouble ?

Joe
BN1 #923

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Has anyone installed their upgraded overdrive piston?=C2=
=A0 If so, is it worth the trouble ?<div><br></div><div>Joe=C2=A0</div><div=
>BN1 #923</div></div>

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_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

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From: Henry G Leach via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 19:36:18 +0000 WjrNrkeaLFMOGWMFCyiz6o95RuEZTdLy+/jsPbnm1QXei834Ze7xQqvJPjIJAqjaJw/xVKL63ZBq41bh3m+t2FD7uh8rzh2oNWp8UnjJYTEQCqi124cw3VPI

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I assemble ODs using the original metal rings and have not had any=0Aiss=
ues with pressure or engagement/disengagement.=0AWhen Mr. DeNormanville=
 stayed up in the middle of the night to=0Aengineer the operation of the=
 unit, I think he decided that the use of=0Asofter rings (sacrificial me=
tal) against a hardened casing was the=0Abest solution for control and w=
ear. If a rubber o-ring was a better=0Asolution, he would have used one=
 with the proper buna rating.=0AI think the bigger problem, now-a-days,=
 is the availability of the=0Ametal piston rings. Rubber O rings are a d=
ime-a-dozen. If you contact=0AOverdrive Spares in the UK, they should be=
 able to supply the proper=0Arings. If they too, have decided to go with=
 rubber, then plan on a=0Abreakdown/rebuild in a shorter period of time=
 than units equipped with=0Athe original parts that last a long, long ti=
me. Hank=0A=0A=09-----------------------------------------From: "Michael=
 Salter" =0ATo: "[email-masked]"=0ACc: =0ASent: Wednesday August=
 3 2022 9:38:15AM=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston=0A=0A  I=
 have a question about the "O" ring type of accumulator. The way=0Athe a=
ccumulator works is that when it is fully charged the piston=0Amoves aga=
inst the spring until the rings reach the radial holes in the=0Awall of=
 the housing which acts to relieve any excess pressure. My=0Aconcern is=
 that at 3 - 400 p.s.i. oil will obviously get behind the=0A"O" ring and=
 force the material of the "O" ring into those radial=0Aholes and then,=
 as the piston moves back over them, a piece of the=0Aring will shear of=
f. I'm guessing that Laycock-DeNormanville used the=0Acomplex cast iron=
 rings rather than "O" rings because they recognized=0Athe possibility o=
f this happening.=0A  I'm sure that tiny pieces of the "O" ring would be=
 found in the=0Afilter if this was a problem. Anyone found them or notic=
ed damage to=0Atheir accumulator "O" ring upon disassembly?=0A=0A M=0A=
=0A On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 9:08 AM Bob Spidell  wrote:=0A  I put one in=
 my BJ8's O/D. It's subjective*--O/Ds seem to work a=0Alittle=0A quicker=
 with cold, thick oil than hot oil--but it cuts maybe a third=0Aoff=0A e=
ngagement time on average. I had the O/D on the bench and=0Adisassembled=
,=0A and the current one had a scored barrel so, why not? Engagement isn=
't=0A much, if any, harsher than before which, I believe is the reason D=
MH=0A wanted the weaker, smaller spring. If I'd known about it, I might=
=0Ahave=0A bought AHSpares' with an O-ring instead.=0A=0A * I've never r=
eally 'timed' O/D functioning, it would be a bit=0Aawkward;=0A anyone do=
ne it? I usually tap the clutch pedal when engaging O/D, and=0A give a l=
ittle throttle when disengaging. I thought mine engaged a=0Alittle=0A qu=
icker when I switched to synthetic fluid from engine oil, but in=0Aall=
=0A cases confirmation bias may be involved.=0A=0A On 8/2/2022 8:09 PM,=
 Joseph Costa wrote:=0A > Has anyone installed their upgraded overdrive=
 piston? If so, is it=0A > worth the trouble ?=0A >=0A > Joe=0A > BN1 #9=
23=0A >=0A=0A _______________________________________________=0A Support=
 Team.Net  [1]http://www.team.net/donate.html [2]=0A Suggested annual do=
nation $12.75=0A=0A Archive:  [3]http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys [=
4] =0A[5]http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys [6]=0A=[email-masked]=
am.net=0A [7]http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys [8]=0A=0A Un=
subscribe/Manage: =0A[9]http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/mi=
[email-masked]=0A[10]=0A=0A  =0A=0ALinks:=0A------=0A[1] http://w=
ww.team.net/donate.html=0A[2] http://www.team.net/donate.html=0A[3] http=
://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys=0A[4] http://www.team.net/pipermail/he=
aleys=0A[5] http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys=0A[6] http://autox.tea=
m.net/archive/healeys=0A[7] http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/heale=
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utox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=0A[10]=0Ah=
ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=0A

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<html><body>I assemble ODs using the original metal rings and have not h=
ad any issues with pressure or engagement/disengagement.<div><br></div><=
div>When Mr. DeNormanville stayed up in the middle of the night to engin=
eer the operation of the unit,&nbsp; I think he decided that the use of=
 softer rings (sacrificial metal) against a hardened casing was the best=
 solution for control and wear.&nbsp; If a rubber o-ring was a better so=
lution, he would have used one with the proper buna rating.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>I think the bigger problem, now-a-days, is the availability=
 of the metal piston rings.&nbsp; Rubber O rings are a dime-a-dozen.&nbs=
p; If you contact Overdrive Spares in the UK, they should be able to sup=
ply the proper rings.&nbsp; If they too, have decided to go with rubber,=
 then plan on a breakdown/rebuild in a shorter period of time than units=
 equipped with the original parts that last a long, long time. Hank<br><=
br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>-------------------------=
----------------</p>From: "Michael Salter" <[email-masked]><br>=
To: "[email-masked]"<br>Cc: <br>Sent: Wednesday August 3 2022 9:=
38:15AM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston<br><br>=0A<div dir=
=3D"ltr">=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, san=
s-serif;font-size:small;">I have a question=0Aabout the "O" ring type of=
 accumulator.</div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">The way the=0Aaccumulator works is t=
hat when it is fully charged the piston moves=0Aagainst the spring until=
 the rings reach the radial holes in the=0Awall of the housing which act=
s to relieve any excess=0Apressure.</div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">My concern is=
 that=0Aat 3 - 400 p.s.i. oil will obviously get behind the "O" ring and=
=0Aforce the material of the "O" ring into those radial holes and=0Athen=
, as the piston moves back over them, a piece of the ring will=0Ashear o=
ff.</div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, san=
s-serif;font-size:small;">I'm guessing that=0ALaycock-DeNormanville used=
 the complex cast iron rings rather than=0A"O" rings because they recogn=
ized the possibility of this=0Ahappening.<br></div>=0A<div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;"></di=
v>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif=
;font-size:small;">I'm sure that tiny=0Apieces of the "O" ring would be=
 found in the filter if this was a=0Aproblem. Anyone found them or notic=
ed damage to their accumulator=0A"O" ring upon disassembly?<br></div>=0A=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font=
-size:small;"><br></div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">M<br></div>=0A<div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br=
></div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 9:08 AM=0ABob Spidell &lt;<a>b=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;=0Awrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">=0AI put one in my BJ8's O/D. It's subject=
ive*--O/Ds seem to work a=0Alittle<br>=0Aquicker with cold, thick oil th=
an hot oil--but it cuts maybe a=0Athird off<br>=0Aengagement time on ave=
rage. I had the O/D on the bench and=0Adisassembled,<br>=0Aand the curre=
nt one had a scored barrel so, why not? Engagement=0Aisn't<br>=0Amuch, i=
f any, harsher than before which, I believe is the reason=0ADMH<br>=0Awa=
nted the weaker, smaller spring. If I'd known about it, I might=0Ahave<b=
r>=0Abought AHSpares' with an O-ring instead.<br><br>=0A* I've never rea=
lly 'timed' O/D functioning, it would be a bit=0Aawkward;<br>=0Aanyone d=
one it? I usually tap the clutch pedal when engaging O/D,=0Aand<br>=0Agi=
ve a little throttle when disengaging. I thought mine engaged a=0Alittle=
<br>=0Aquicker when I switched to synthetic fluid from engine oil, but i=
n=0Aall<br>=0Acases confirmation bias may be involved.<br><br><br><br>=
=0AOn 8/2/2022 8:09 PM, Joseph Costa wrote:<br>=0A&gt; Has anyone instal=
led their upgraded overdrive piston?&nbsp; If=0Aso, is it<br>=0A&gt; wor=
th the trouble ?<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Joe<br>=0A&gt; BN1 #923<br>=0A&gt=
;<br><br>=0A_______________________________________________<br>=0ASuppor=
t Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"></a><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>=
=0ASuggested annual donation&nbsp; $12.75<br><br>=0AArchive: <a href=3D"=
http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"></a><a href=3D"http://www.team.ne=
t/pipermail/healeys">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys"></a><a href=3D"http://autox.t=
eam.net/archive/healeys">http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><b=
r><a>[email-masked]</a><br><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mail=
man/listinfo/healeys"></a><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listi=
nfo/healeys">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>=
=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/=
healeys/[email-masked]"></a><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/ma=
ilman/options/healeys/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mai=
lman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br><br></blockquote>=0A=
</div>=0A</[email-masked]></div></body></html>

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[email-masked]

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From: Henry G Leach via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2022 04:51:27 +0000 wIJpLCY3JgKWK3OzvSIqoQhfWSp2pSdLjJ5UjWRZS4n4AYzhbjemDRB9wLAUExutP6Dxo4s1r030qz+4O7Vs+Bmi2UBTaZPTILw=

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I checked with David at OD Spares as to availability. Here is his=0Aresp=
onse:=0AHi Hank we use both styles the steel piston rings are all still=
=0Aavailable as are new pistons and the aluminium housing they both work=
=0Aequally wellWe can supply any of your overdrive requirements=0Abest r=
egards Dave=0A=0A_OVERDRIVE SPARES__10 ARCHES BUSINESS CENTRE__MILL=0ARO=
AD__RUGBY__WARWICKSHIRE__CV21 1QW__ENGLAND_=0A_EMAIL: [email-masked]=
TELEPHONE NUMBER: 01788 540666__FAX NUMBER:=0A01788 570777__WEB: WWW.ODS=
PARES.COM_=0A=0A=09-----------------------------------------From: "Bob S=
pidell" =0ATo: [email-masked]=0ACc: =0ASent: Wednesday August 3=
 2022 7:15:22PM=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston=0A=0A The r=
ings will score the inside of the piston housing, though not=0Abadly (ph=
oto at 205K miles). Looks like there's a side load on the=0Apiston, prob=
ably from the spring.=0A=0A I donated this accumulator to another owner;=
 never heard how they=0Aworked. Moss shows the rings available (but who=
 knows?).=0A=0AOn 8/3/2022 12:36 PM, Henry G Leach via Healeys wrote:=0A=
  I assemble ODs using the original metal rings and have not had any=0Ai=
ssues with pressure or engagement/disengagement. =0A When Mr. DeNormanvi=
lle stayed up in the middle of the night to=0Aengineer the operation of=
 the unit, I think he decided that the use of=0Asofter rings (sacrificia=
l metal) against a hardened casing was the=0Abest solution for control a=
nd wear. If a rubber o-ring was a better=0Asolution, he would have used=
 one with the proper buna rating. =0A I think the bigger problem, now-a-=
days, is the availability of the=0Ametal piston rings. Rubber O rings ar=
e a dime-a-dozen. If you contact=0AOverdrive Spares in the UK, they shou=
ld be able to supply the proper=0Arings. If they too, have decided to go=
 with rubber, then plan on a=0Abreakdown/rebuild in a shorter period of=
 time than units equipped with=0Athe original parts that last a long, lo=
ng time. Hank=0A=0A=09----------------------------------------- From: "M=
ichael Salter"=0A To: "[email-masked]"=0A Cc:=0A Sent: Wednesday=
 August 3 2022 9:38:15AM=0A Subject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston=
=0A=0A I have a question about the "O" ring type of accumulator. The way=
 the=0Aaccumulator works is that when it is fully charged the piston mov=
es=0Aagainst the spring until the rings reach the radial holes in the wa=
ll=0Aof the housing which acts to relieve any excess pressure. My concer=
n=0Ais that at 3 - 400 p.s.i. oil will obviously get behind the "O" ring=
=0Aand force the material of the "O" ring into those radial holes and=0A=
then, as the piston moves back over them, a piece of the ring will=0Ashe=
ar off. I'm guessing that Laycock-DeNormanville used the complex=0Acast=
 iron rings rather than "O" rings because they recognized the=0Apossibil=
ity of this happening.=0A I'm sure that tiny pieces of the "O" ring woul=
d be found in the=0Afilter if this was a problem. Anyone found them or n=
oticed damage to=0Atheir accumulator "O" ring upon disassembly?=0A=0A M=
=0A=0A On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 9:08 AM Bob Spidell  wrote:=0A  I put one=
 in my BJ8's O/D. It's subjective*--O/Ds seem to work a=0Alittle=0A quic=
ker with cold, thick oil than hot oil--but it cuts maybe a third=0Aoff=
=0A engagement time on average. I had the O/D on the bench and=0Adisasse=
mbled,=0A and the current one had a scored barrel so, why not? Engagemen=
t isn't=0A much, if any, harsher than before which, I believe is the rea=
son DMH=0A wanted the weaker, smaller spring. If I'd known about it, I m=
ight=0Ahave=0A bought AHSpares' with an O-ring instead.=0A=0A * I've nev=
er really 'timed' O/D functioning, it would be a bit=0Aawkward;=0A anyon=
e done it? I usually tap the clutch pedal when engaging O/D, and=0A give=
 a little throttle when disengaging. I thought mine engaged a=0Alittle=
=0A quicker when I switched to synthetic fluid from engine oil, but in=
=0Aall=0A cases confirmation bias may be involved.=0A=0A On 8/2/2022 8:0=
9 PM, Joseph Costa wrote:=0A > Has anyone installed their upgraded overd=
rive piston? If so, is it=0A > worth the trouble ?=0A >=0A > Joe=0A > BN=
1 #923=0A >=0A=0A

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<html><body>I checked with David at OD Spares as to availability.&nbsp;=
 Here is his response:<div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Ar=
ial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Hi Hank&nbsp; &nbsp; we us=
e both styles&nbsp; &nbsp; the steel piston rings are all still availabl=
e as are new pistons and the aluminium housing&nbsp; &nbsp;they both wor=
k equally well</span><div style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-s=
erif; font-size: 16px;">We can supply any of your overdrive requirements=
</div><div style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 16px;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-ser=
if; font-size: 16px;">best regards&nbsp; Dave<br><br><div style=3D"clear=
: both;"><div style=3D"font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-a=
sian: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12pt; line-height: normal=
;"><div style=3D"font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian:=
 normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12pt; line-height: normal;"><b=
r><div><b><i><br></i></b></div><div><b><i>Overdrive Spares</i></b><div><=
b><i>10 Arches Business Centre</i></b></div><div><b><i>Mill Road</i></b>=
</div><div><b><i>Rugby</i></b></div><div><b><i>Warwickshire</i></b></div=
><div><b><i>CV21 1QW</i></b></div><div><b><i>England</i></b></div><div><=
b><i><br></i></b></div><div><b><i>Email: [email-masked]</i></b></div><=
div><b><i>Telephone Number: 01788 540666</i></b></div><div><b><i>Fax Num=
ber: 01788 570777</i></b></div><div><b><i>Web:&nbsp;<u><span style=3D"co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 255);">www.odspares.com</span></u></i></b></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>---=
--------------------------------------</p>From: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@=
comcast.net><br>To: [email-masked]<br>Cc: <br>Sent: Wednesday Au=
gust 3 2022 7:15:22PM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston<br><=
br>=0AThe rings will score the inside of the piston housing, though not=
=0Abadly (photo at 205K miles). Looks like there's a side load on the=0A=
piston, probably from the spring.<br><br>=0AI donated this accumulator t=
o another owner; never heard how they=0Aworked. Moss shows the rings ava=
ilable (but who knows?).<br><br><br><div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 8/=
3/2022 12:36 PM, Henry G Leach=0Avia Healeys wrote:<br></div>=0A<blockqu=
ote>=0A=0AI assemble ODs using the original metal rings and have not had=
 any=0Aissues with pressure or engagement/disengagement.=0A<div><br></di=
v>=0A<div>When Mr. DeNormanville stayed up in the middle of the night to=
=0Aengineer the operation of the unit,&nbsp; I think he decided that=0At=
he use of softer rings (sacrificial metal) against a hardened=0Acasing w=
as the best solution for control and wear.&nbsp; If a=0Arubber o-ring wa=
s a better solution, he would have used one with=0Athe proper buna ratin=
g.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>I think the bigger problem, now-a-days=
, is the availability of=0Athe metal piston rings.&nbsp; Rubber O rings=
 are a=0Adime-a-dozen.&nbsp; If you contact Overdrive Spares in the UK,=
 they=0Ashould be able to supply the proper rings.&nbsp; If they too, ha=
ve=0Adecided to go with rubber, then plan on a breakdown/rebuild in a=0A=
shorter period of time than units equipped with the original parts=0Atha=
t last a long, long time. Hank<br><br><p>-------------------------------=
----------</p>=0AFrom: "Michael Salter"<br>=0ATo: <a class=3D"moz-txt-li=
nk-rfc2396E">"[email-masked]"</a><br>=0ACc:<br>=0ASent: Wednesda=
y August 3 2022 9:38:15AM<br>=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive pist=
on<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">I have a question=0Aabout th=
e "O" ring type of accumulator.</div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">The way the=0Aaccu=
mulator works is that when it is fully charged the piston moves=0Aagains=
t the spring until the rings reach the radial holes in the=0Awall of the=
 housing which acts to relieve any excess=0Apressure.</div>=0A<div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l;">My concern is that=0Aat 3 - 400 p.s.i. oil will obviously get behind=
 the "O" ring and=0Aforce the material of the "O" ring into those radial=
 holes and=0Athen, as the piston moves back over them, a piece of the ri=
ng will=0Ashear off.</div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">I'm guessing that=0ALaycock-D=
eNormanville used the complex cast iron rings rather than=0A"O" rings be=
cause they recognized the possibility of this=0Ahappening.<br></div>=0A<=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-=
size:small;">I'm sure that tiny=0Apieces of the "O" ring would be found=
 in the filter if this was a=0Aproblem. Anyone found them or noticed dam=
age to their accumulator=0A"O" ring upon disassembly?<br></div>=0A<div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:=
small;"><br></div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">M<br></div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br></div=
>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 9:08 AM=0ABob Spidell &lt;<a>bspidel=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex;">=0AI put one in my BJ8's O/D. It's subjective*--O/=
Ds seem to work a=0Alittle<br>=0Aquicker with cold, thick oil than hot o=
il--but it cuts maybe a=0Athird off<br>=0Aengagement time on average. I=
 had the O/D on the bench and=0Adisassembled,<br>=0Aand the current one=
 had a scored barrel so, why not? Engagement=0Aisn't<br>=0Amuch, if any,=
 harsher than before which, I believe is the reason=0ADMH<br>=0Awanted t=
he weaker, smaller spring. If I'd known about it, I might=0Ahave<br>=0Ab=
ought AHSpares' with an O-ring instead.<br><br>=0A* I've never really 't=
imed' O/D functioning, it would be a bit=0Aawkward;<br>=0Aanyone done it=
? I usually tap the clutch pedal when engaging O/D,=0Aand<br>=0Agive a l=
ittle throttle when disengaging. I thought mine engaged a=0Alittle<br>=
=0Aquicker when I switched to synthetic fluid from engine oil, but in=0A=
all<br>=0Acases confirmation bias may be involved.<br><br><br><br>=0AOn=
 8/2/2022 8:09 PM, Joseph Costa wrote:<br>=0A&gt; Has anyone installed t=
heir upgraded overdrive piston?&nbsp; If=0Aso, is it<br>=0A&gt; worth th=
e trouble ?<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Joe<br>=0A&gt; BN1 #923<br>=0A&gt;<br>=
<br></blockquote>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</blockquote>=0A<br></bspidell@com=
cast.net></div></body></html>

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