Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear brake steady posts

From: Henry G Leach via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:18:48 +0000 mXB6q73JKq74CABZupX9fSpShSoQ62hdQYt74gHd2sC6VIYy+4SLHMF5Rxlcv/WF0pVT3eobeqYqcBEh0IR/KOKUZgm7tK0655RZhpkTzTvTsV1HKGwNjPfx

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My understanding of the "steady" posts are just that...to keep the=0Asho=
es even in operation. They are very small and not too strong so=0Athat I=
 doubt they could affect much. However, as the book procedure=0Adescribe=
s-"you lock up the shoes so they contact the=0Adrum"-perpendicular to ba=
ckplate-then move the steady post in until it=0A"contacts the shoe side"=
..this should keep the shoe from tilting and=0Anot contacting the drum=
 flat. Looks good on paper. =0AI think that the shoes will naturally ali=
gn and the posts are only a=0Asafety measure. The early cars used lots o=
f lube points-oil=0Aeverything. The felts have no rub quality, just a re=
ceptacle for=0Aholding oil. The worst thing you could do is screw them w=
ay down and=0Acause scraping and drag. Midpoint would do no harm-even if=
 they did=0Anot touch the shoe. Most of the posts I have seen on backpla=
tes are=0Afrozen in position anyway. Just my opinion Hank=0A=0A=09------=
-----------------------------------From: "Michael Salter via=0AHealeys"=
 =0ATo: "Roger Grace"=0ACc: "Healeys"=0ASent: Wednesday March 31 2021 11=
:00:06AM=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] Rear brake adjustment=0A=0A Obviously=
 the quality of the felt being used is not satisfactory.=0AI've got a pa=
ir of BN1 rear brakes here that still have the felts in=0Aplace and are=
 still greasy. I don't believe eliminating metat to metal=0Ais the inten=
t ... just to provide sufficient lubrication to eliminate=0Asqueaks. =0A=
 M  =0A On Wed., Mar. 31, 2021, 11:47 a.m. Roger Grace via Healeys,  wro=
te:=0A   Bob, Yes agree about the felt bushes. I assume that their only=
=0Afunction is to prevent metal to metal contact ? So do the fibre tubes=
=0Aprotrude slightly beyond the end of the pegs ? Will try to locate=0As=
omething suitable. =0A Wonder how you adjust these pegs ? There seems to=
 be 3 different=0Atechniques: =0A The Moss method with chalk marks on th=
e shoes.=0A=0A The Salter method by adjusting in/out to each shoe edge t=
hen setting=0Ato the mid point. =0A The usual method - centering the sho=
es (by stomping on the brakes)=0Athen adjusting the peg to just make con=
tact while shoes are clamped. =0A I tend to favour the last method ....=
 ?=0A=0A Tkx rg=0A=0A On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:09 PM Bob Spidell  wrote=
:=0A  One more thing ...=0A=0A I've never liked the little felt bushes t=
hat go on the end of the=0Ashoe standoffs; they deteriorate as soon as t=
hey're installed (and are=0Ausually a gooey mess when you replace them).=
 But, I ordered a set from=0ATom's Import Toys, but instead Tom sent som=
e fiber tubing cut into=0Ashort pieces. These fit perfectly and firmly o=
ver the standoffs, and=0Ayou can place a little grease on the end and ex=
pect it to stay there.=0AI don't know a source, the tubing looks like it=
 could be small fuel=0Aline, but it's only fiber with no rubber or other=
 lining.=0A=0A Bob=0A=0AOn 3/30/2021 8:40 PM, Roger Grace wrote:=0A   Bo=
b, Thank you - really appreciated - you are a star ! I have now=0Aremove=
d one side and yes I had the hooks facing out and the plates=0Areversed=
 as you did the first time.=0A As you say this is not covered in the man=
ual, and surprised that this=0Aissue ( tricky) is not given much coverag=
e here - compared to say what=0Aoil to use in your OD ! I tried to to ge=
t the cylinder out without=0Aremoving the hyd. pipe to avoid bleeding bu=
t not possible to get the=0Abrake lever dislodged.=0A I too will save yo=
ur notes for next time... Tkx rg=0A=0A On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 7:48 PM B=
ob Spidell  wrote:=0A  Here's a short video of the cylinder moving (comp=
lete with 80s=0Asoundtrack and modern 'shaky cam'). Pic shows the bevel=
 on the dust=0Acover that I think proves this is the correct order of in=
stallation.=0A=0A Here's the sequence of installation that caused me the=
 least=0Afrustration:=0A=0A 1) LIGHTLY grease all moving/sliding parts,=
 including the adjuster=0Acam and spreaders and the shaft that the handb=
rake lever pivots on=0A=0A 2) Insert cylinder into its slot=0A=0A 3) Sli=
de the spring plate, with hooks pointed toward the diff, into=0Athe slot=
 on the cylinder from above as manual shows=0A=0A 4) Insert the handbrak=
e lever through its slot on the backplate from=0Athe outside=0A=0A 5) Li=
ft the cylinder a little with a screwdriver and slide the=0Ahandbrake pi=
vot shaft into its notches on the cylinder (the spring=0Aplate allows th=
is)=0A=0A 6) Start working the flat retaining plate with the notches int=
o the=0Aslot on the cylinder on top of the spring plate. I tapped it in;=
 it=0Awould help if someone held the handbrake lever out in its actuated=
=0Astate to prevent the spring plate from retreating from the flat plate=
=0A(it might be possible to squeeze them together with a large set of=0A=
channellocks). Make sure the little hooks on the spring plate engage=0At=
he notches on the flat plate.=0A=0A 7) Work the rubber boot/dust cover o=
ver the handbrake lever and=0Aaround and under the retaining plates, wit=
h the beveled edge sliding=0Aunder the plates (see vid).=0A=0A 8) Wipe o=
ff any excess grease (it doesn't go well with brake=0Amaterial)=0A=0A Cr=
edit where due: I'm often (always) disappointed with the quality of=0Aaf=
termarket rubber products, but the dust covers I got from Moss are=0Anot=
 only molded and cut perfectly, but seem to be made of a tough=0Arubber=
 that should actually hold up (it's almost a soft plastic).=0A=0A Bob=0A=
=0A ps. This is as much for my benefit, as I seem to have to do this job=
=0Aevery decade or so, and have to start from scratch procedure-wise=0Ae=
very time.=0A=0AOn 3/30/2021 9:52 AM, Roger Grace wrote:=0A   Yes thank=
 you; that sounds like a good explanation. As you say it=0Ais a bear of=
 a job and just working up some stamina to tackle it again=0A! rg=0A=0A=
 On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:38 PM Bob Spidell  wrote:=0A  re: "I note th=
at the slave is tight on the back plate. How tight is=0A normal floating=
 ?"=0A=0A I just spent several hours on my back on a greasy floor workin=
g on my=0A BN2's rear drums. I didn't see any text in the shop manual ex=
plaining=0A installation; most I found was a pic in the Moss catalog sho=
wing that=0A the curved spring, with the 'hooks,' should be installed ab=
ove the=0A cylinder (between the cylinder and the handbrake lever). Firs=
t, I=0A installed the flat plate against the backing plate with the spri=
ng=0Aplate=0A on top of it. Not only would the cylinder not move freely-=
-which=0Aenables=0A the self-energizing aspect of the brakes--but the ru=
bber dust boot=0Ahad=0A nothing to hold it in place. I then reversed the=
 installation; i.e.=0Athe=0A spring plate was still above the cylinder,=
 but under the flat plate=0A (hooks up). This way the cylinder would sli=
de smoothly and easily,=0Awhich=0A makes sense because there is less con=
tact area, but the rubber boot,=0A which is beveled on the inner part fi=
t naturally under the flat plate=0A and would stay in place when vigorou=
sly sliding the cylinder=0A back-and-forth. Contact surfaces were lightl=
y greased.=0A=0A Short answer: the cylinder should slide smoothly and ea=
sily;=0Aotherwise=0A the self-energizing feature could be defeated, and=
 the cylinder could=0Abe=0A stuck in the expanded position, which could=
 explain your=0Anon-retracting=0A problem.=0A=0A Bob=0A=0A On 3/29/2021=
 3:07 PM, Roger Grace via Healeys wrote:=0A > BJ8 ph2.=0A > I am Struggl=
ing to get consistent results for rear brake shoe=0Aadjustment.=0A > All=
 part of a project to get handbrake working properly - currently=0Ait=0A=
 > is almost vertical.=0A > Background:=0A > New shoes, slaves and sprin=
gs etc with less than 4k mi. Almost no=0Asign=0A > of any wear yet.=0A >=
 Handbrake lever clevis pins removed.=0A > Steady post adjusted so the p=
eg just touches when brakes are=0Aadjusted=0A > tight.=0A > Then the adj=
ustment set so you can just hear/feel slight brake=0Adrag.=0A > All OK s=
o far.=0A >=0A > Here is the problem:=0A > When the handbrake lever is p=
ushed with screwdriver or my hand it=0A > moves with initial free play t=
hen clamps the shoes as it should. =0A > However when released brakes do=
 not fully retract, and shoes bind=0Aand=0A > not at the same setting th=
at started off with.=0A > Same story with using the hydraulics; seems to=
 hang up, in not=0Aquite=0A > the off position. Both wheels are the same=
=0A > Shoes can be "reset" to original setting by rattling the adjuster=
=0A > back and forth in the freeplay zone.=0A > All looks fine when drum=
 is off and you can see the shoe operation.=0A >=0A > My thoughts :=0A >=
 I observe that the new springs actually touch the inside of the=0Ashoes=
 ?=0A > Maybe some grease there ? Is this interference normal ?=0A > Is=
 it possible to incorrectly assemble the shoes/springs ?=0A > See photo=
 of RR.=0A > I note that the slave is tight on the back plate. How tight=
 is=0Anormal=0A > floating ?=0A > Maybe I assembled the slave cylinder c=
lips incorrectly ?=0A >=0A > All suggestions appreciated=0A > rg=0A >=0A=
 >=0A >=0A >=0A >=0A >=0A >=0A=0A ______________________________________=
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<html><body>My understanding of the "steady" posts are just that...to ke=
ep the shoes even in operation. They are very small and not too strong s=
o that I doubt they could affect much.&nbsp; However, as the book proced=
ure describes-"you lock up the shoes so they contact the drum"-perpendic=
ular to backplate-then move the steady post in until it "contacts the sh=
oe side"...this should keep the shoe from tilting and not contacting the=
 drum flat. Looks good on paper.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I think that t=
he shoes will naturally align and the posts are only a safety measure. T=
he early cars used lots of lube points-oil everything. The felts have no=
 rub quality, just a receptacle for holding oil. The worst thing you cou=
ld do is screw them way down and cause scraping and drag. Midpoint would=
 do no harm-even if they did not touch the shoe. Most of the posts I hav=
e seen on backplates are frozen in position anyway. Just my opinion Hank=
<br><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>--------------------=
---------------------</p>From: "Michael Salter via Healeys" <healeys@aut=
ox.team.net><br>To: "Roger Grace"<br>Cc: "Healeys"<br>Sent: Wednesday Ma=
rch 31 2021 11:00:06AM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear brake adjustment<b=
r><br>=0A<div>Obviously the quality of the felt being used is not=0Asati=
sfactory.&nbsp; I've got a pair of BN1 rear brakes here that=0Astill hav=
e the felts in place and are still greasy.&nbsp;=0A<div>I don't believe=
 eliminating metat to metal is the=0Aintent ... just to provide sufficie=
nt lubrication to eliminate=0Asqueaks.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>M<=
/div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Mar. 31, 2021, 11:47=0Aa.m. Roger Grace via He=
aleys, &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;=0Awrote:<br></div>=0A<block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div>Bob,</div>=0A<d=
iv>Yes agree about the felt bushes. I assume that their only=0Afunction=
 is to prevent metal to metal contact ?</div>=0A<div>So do the fibre tub=
es protrude slightly beyond the end of the=0Apegs ?</div>=0A<div>Will tr=
y to locate something suitable.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>Wonder ho=
w you adjust these pegs ?</div>=0A<div>There seems to be 3 different tec=
hniques:</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>The Moss method with chalk marks=
 on the shoes.<br></div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>The Salter method by a=
djusting in/out to each shoe edge then=0Asetting to the mid point.</div>=
=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>The usual&nbsp; method - centering&nbsp; the s=
hoes (by=0Astomping on the brakes) then adjusting the peg to just make c=
ontact=0Awhile shoes are clamped.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>I tend=
 to favour the last method .... ?<br></div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>Tkx=
</div>=0A<div>rg<br></div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div><b=
r></div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=0A=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:09 PM=0A=
Bob Spidell &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;=0Awrote:<br></div>=0A<bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">=0A<div>One more thing=
 ...<br><br>=0AI've never liked the little felt bushes that go on the en=
d of the=0Ashoe standoffs; they deteriorate as soon as they're installed=
 (and=0Aare usually a gooey mess when you replace them). But, I ordered=
 a=0Aset from Tom's Import Toys, but instead Tom sent some fiber tubing=
=0Acut into short pieces. These fit perfectly and firmly over the=0Astan=
doffs, and you can place a little grease on the end and expect=0Ait to s=
tay there. I don't know a source, the tubing looks like it=0Acould be sm=
all fuel line, but it's only fiber with no rubber or=0Aother lining.<br>=
<br>=0ABob<br><br><div>On 3/30/2021 8:40 PM, Roger Grace wrote:<br></div=
>=0A<blockquote>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div>Bob,</div>=0A<div>Thank you=
 - really appreciated - you are a star !</div>=0A<div>I have now removed=
 one side and yes I had the hooks facing out=0Aand the plates reversed a=
s you did the first time.<br></div>=0A<div>As you say this is not covere=
d in the manual, and surprised=0Athat this issue ( tricky) is not given=
 much coverage here -=0Acompared to say what oil to use in your OD !</di=
v>=0A<div>I tried to to get the cylinder out without removing the hyd.=
=0Apipe to avoid bleeding but not possible to get the brake lever=0Adisl=
odged.<br></div>=0A<div>I too will save your notes for next time...</div=
>=0A<div>Tkx</div>=0A<div>rg<br></div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div><br></di=
v>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 a=
t 7:48 PM=0ABob Spidell &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;=0Awrote:<br>=
</div>=0A<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px .=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">=0A<div>He=
re's a short video of the cylinder moving (complete with 80s=0Asoundtrac=
k and modern 'shaky cam'). Pic shows the bevel on the dust=0Acover that=
 I think proves this is the correct order of=0Ainstallation.<br><br>=0AH=
ere's the sequence of installation that caused me the least=0Afrustratio=
n:<br><br>=0A1) LIGHTLY grease all moving/sliding parts, including the a=
djuster=0Acam and spreaders and the shaft that the handbrake lever pivot=
s=0Aon<br><br>=0A2) Insert cylinder into its slot<br><br>=0A3) Slide the=
 spring plate, with hooks pointed toward the diff, into=0Athe slot on th=
e cylinder from above as manual shows<br><br>=0A4) Insert the handbrake=
 lever through its slot on the backplate=0Afrom the outside<br><br>=0A5)=
 Lift the cylinder a little with a screwdriver and slide the=0Ahandbrake=
 pivot shaft into its notches on the cylinder (the spring=0Aplate allows=
 this)<br><br>=0A6) Start working the flat retaining plate with the notc=
hes into the=0Aslot on the cylinder on top of the spring plate. I tapped=
 it in; it=0Awould help if someone held the handbrake lever out in its a=
ctuated=0Astate to prevent the spring plate from retreating from the fla=
t=0Aplate (it might be possible to squeeze them together with a large=0A=
set of channellocks). Make sure the little hooks on the spring=0Aplate e=
ngage the notches on the flat plate.<br><br>=0A7) Work the rubber boot/d=
ust cover over the handbrake lever and=0Aaround and under the retaining=
 plates, with the beveled edge=0Asliding under the plates (see vid).<br>=
<br>=0A8) Wipe off any excess grease (it doesn't go well with brake=0Ama=
terial)<br><br>=0ACredit where due: I'm often (always) disappointed with=
 the quality=0Aof aftermarket rubber products, but the dust covers I got=
 from Moss=0Aare not only molded and cut perfectly, but seem to be made=
 of a=0Atough rubber that should actually hold up (it's almost a soft=0A=
plastic).<br><br>=0ABob<br><br>=0Aps. This is as much for my benefit, as=
 I seem to have to do this=0Ajob every decade or so, and have to start f=
rom scratch=0Aprocedure-wise every time.<br><br><br><div>On 3/30/2021 9:=
52 AM, Roger Grace wrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquote>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">=
=0A<div>Yes thank you;&nbsp; that sounds like a good explanation. As=0Ay=
ou say it is a bear of a job and just working up some stamina to=0Atackl=
e it again !</div>=0A<div>rg<br></div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 a=
t 10:38 PM=0ABob Spidell &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;=0Awrote:<br=
></div>=0A<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">=0Are: "=
I note that the slave is tight on the back plate. How tight=0Ais<br>=0An=
ormal floating ?"<br><br>=0AI just spent several hours on my back on a g=
reasy floor working on=0Amy<br>=0ABN2's rear drums. I didn't see any tex=
t in the shop manual=0Aexplaining<br>=0Ainstallation; most I found was a=
 pic in the Moss catalog showing=0Athat<br>=0Athe curved spring, with th=
e 'hooks,' should be installed above=0Athe<br>=0Acylinder (between the c=
ylinder and the handbrake lever). First,=0AI<br>=0Ainstalled the flat pl=
ate against the backing plate with the spring=0Aplate<br>=0Aon top of it=
 Not only would the cylinder not move freely--which=0Aenables<br>=0Athe=
 self-energizing aspect of the brakes--but the rubber dust boot=0Ahad<br=
>=0Anothing to hold it in place. I then reversed the installation; i.e.=
=0Athe<br>=0Aspring plate was still above the cylinder, but under the fl=
at=0Aplate<br>=0A(hooks up). This way the cylinder would slide smoothly=
 and easily,=0Awhich<br>=0Amakes sense because there is less contact are=
a, but the rubber=0Aboot,<br>=0Awhich is beveled on the inner part fit n=
aturally under the flat=0Aplate<br>=0Aand would stay in place when vigor=
ously sliding the cylinder<br>=0Aback-and-forth. Contact surfaces were l=
ightly greased.<br><br>=0AShort answer: the cylinder should slide smooth=
ly and easily;=0Aotherwise<br>=0Athe self-energizing feature could be de=
feated, and the cylinder=0Acould be<br>=0Astuck in the expanded position=
, which could explain your=0Anon-retracting<br>=0Aproblem.<br><br>=0ABob=
<br><br><br>=0AOn 3/29/2021 3:07 PM, Roger Grace via Healeys wrote:<br>=
=0A&gt; BJ8 ph2.<br>=0A&gt; I am Struggling to get consistent results fo=
r rear brake shoe=0Aadjustment.<br>=0A&gt; All part of a project to get=
 handbrake working properly -=0Acurrently it<br>=0A&gt; is almost vertic=
al.<br>=0A&gt; Background:<br>=0A&gt; New shoes, slaves and springs etc=
 with less than 4k mi. Almost=0Ano sign<br>=0A&gt; of any wear yet.<br>=
=0A&gt; Handbrake lever clevis pins removed.<br>=0A&gt; Steady post adju=
sted so the peg just touches when brakes are=0Aadjusted<br>=0A&gt; tight=
<br>=0A&gt; Then the adjustment set so you can just hear/feel slight br=
ake=0Adrag.<br>=0A&gt; All OK so far.<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Here is the=
 problem:<br>=0A&gt; When the handbrake lever is pushed with screwdriver=
 or my hand=0Ait<br>=0A&gt; moves with initial free play then clamps the=
 shoes as it=0Ashould.&nbsp;<br>=0A&gt; However&nbsp; when released brak=
es do not fully retract, and=0Ashoes bind and<br>=0A&gt; not at&nbsp; th=
e same setting that started off with.<br>=0A&gt; Same story with using t=
he hydraulics; seems to hang up, in not=0Aquite<br>=0A&gt; the off posit=
ion. Both wheels are the same.<br>=0A&gt; Shoes can be "reset"&nbsp; to=
 original setting by rattling the=0Aadjuster<br>=0A&gt; back and forth i=
n&nbsp; the freeplay zone.<br>=0A&gt; All looks fine when drum is off an=
d you can see the shoe=0Aoperation.<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; My thoughts :<=
br>=0A&gt; I observe that the new springs actually touch the inside of=
=0Athe shoes ?<br>=0A&gt; Maybe some grease there ? Is this interference=
 normal ?<br>=0A&gt; Is it possible to incorrectly assemble the shoes/sp=
rings ?<br>=0A&gt; See photo of RR.<br>=0A&gt; I note that the slave is=
 tight on the back plate. How tight is=0Anormal<br>=0A&gt; floating ?<br=
>=0A&gt; Maybe I assembled the slave cylinder clips incorrectly ?<br>=0A=
&gt;<br>=0A&gt; All&nbsp; suggestions appreciated<br>=0A&gt; rg<br>=0A&g=
t;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=
<br>=0A_______________________________________________<br>=0ASupport Tea=
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