Subject: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question

From: "Steve Gerow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 20:42:11 -0800

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Am replacing the paper gasket and o-ring on one of my axles. Did I read here
the gasket should be soaked in water in order to make it more pliable?

I've always installed these with hylomar and never had any leakage problems
from the gasket or o-ring, but the gaskets do tend to tear.

Would appreciate any informed comments.

--

Steve Gerow

Altadena, CA, USA

BN6

Check out my galleries:

http://www.pbase.com/stevegerow/

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Am =
replacing the paper gasket and o-ring on one of my axles. Did I read =
here the gasket should be soaked in water in order to make it more =
pliable?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I&#8217;ve always installed these with hylomar and =
never had any leakage problems from the gasket or o-ring, but the =
gaskets do tend to tear.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Would =
appreciate any informed comments.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>--<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Steve =
Gerow<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Altadena, CA, =
USA<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>BN6<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Check out my galleries:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>http://www.pbase.com/stevegerow/<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 11:41:38 -0500

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I have not tried it but I doubt it. On the three axles I have actual experi=
ence with the gasket needed to be Approx. 0.004" thick so that the spacer m=
et the specified tolerances in the workshop manual. The gaskets I purchased=
 were all approx. 0.010" thick. That would be a lot of squish. You would ha=
ve to squish it without the bearing spacer in place. Then remove the axle &=
 measure how much the spacer stood proud of the gasket. Then reassemble eve=
rything, if it met spec. It seemed easier to just make a gasket of the prop=
er thickness.
Gary Hodson=20
=20
=20
From: Simon Lachlan <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question

=20
 =20
If you soaked the too big gaskets in, say, WD40, wouldn=E2=80=99t they comp=
ress down to a proper size as you tightened up?
 =20
Just a thought..............
 =20
Simon
 =20
                    =20

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<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:=
 transparent;">I have not tried it but I doubt it. On the three axles I hav=
e actual experience with the gasket needed to be Approx. 0.004" thick so th=
at the spacer met the specified tolerances in the workshop manual. The gask=
ets I purchased were all approx.&nbsp;0.010" thick. That would be a lot of =
squish.&nbsp;You would have to squish it without the bearing spacer in plac=
e. Then remove the axle &amp; measure how much the spacer stood proud of th=
e gasket. Then reassemble everything, if it met spec. It seemed easier to j=
ust make a gasket of the proper thickness.</font></div>

<div><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:=
 transparent;">Gary Hodson&nbsp;</font></div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div style=3D"color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;"=
>From: Simon Lachlan &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Subject: RE: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question<br>
<br>

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1;}</style>

<div class=3D"aolReplacedBody" lang=3D"EN-GB">
=20
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>If you soaked the too big gask=
ets in, say, WD40, wouldn=E2=80=99t they compress down to a proper size as =
you tightened up?</span></div>

 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Just a thought..............</=
span></div>

 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Simon</span></div>

 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D'color: black; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><=
/span>&nbsp;</div>

     =20
    =20
   =20
  =20
 =20
 </div>

</div>

</div>

</div>
</font>
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[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 18:52:56 -0500

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Steve,
Correct, the O-ring does the actual sealing.=20
The shop manual states: "the bearing spacer must protrude between 0.001" an=
d 0.004" beyond the face of the hub & paper gasket. This is to make sure th=
e bearing is firmly gripped between the abutment shoulder in the hub and pa=
per washer."=20
That means that the gasket thickness depends upon the spacer thickness, whi=
ch is why the gasket would be considered a shim. For example: If the shim p=
rotrudes by 0.010" without the gasket you will need a gasket that is betwee=
n .006" and .009" thick. I do not believe we are really compressing the gas=
ket. The axle is held in place by the two small Phillips head screws.  We m=
ay be bending the axle flange very slightly to take up the .001"-.004" gap =
when we tighten the lug nuts that hold the splined hub extension onto the h=
ub.
Gary=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve B. Gerow [email-masked]
To: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Cc: warthodson <[email-masked]>; \\ <[email-masked]>; \\ =
<[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question

The whole idea of the gasket-as-shim has a certain logic to it - except the=
 o-ring does the actual sealing, correct?=20

Is this the idea: when we tighten the lug nuts, we compress the gasket from=
, say .014" to .010". At .010, the axle center makes contact with the space=
r ring and bearing, coming to a stop. There is then .010" between the carri=
er and axle flange. The gasket takes up the slack - is the compressed gaske=
t strong enough to in effect be a shim between these two parts?

Michael - maybe when extra-tightening of the lug nuts, the axle flange is a=
lso bending slightly to take up this gap.

Betcha I'm over-thinking this! :-)

--=20
Steve Gerow

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
>  To: Steve B. Gerow <[email-masked]>
>  Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]=
k, [email-masked]
>  Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question
>  Sent: Jan 26 '15 11:28
> =20
>  One other observation on this subject.
> =20
> =20
>  This is, I believe, the only place on a Healey where 'conical" seat nuts
>  are used.
>  It has been my experience that conical seat nuts always require re-torqu=
ing
>  after a little  use. Just like the lug nuts on your every day driver if
>  you torque them up, then drive the car for a bit you will find that the
>  nuts will take up to half a turn just to restore them to the original
>  torque.
> =20
> =20
>  That said however I do have to agree with Chris regarding aggressive use=
.
>  On AHX12 we found it necessary to re-torque those nuts after every day o=
f
>  competition and they would always go on an additional flat or so.. I alw=
ays
>  wondered where that extra tightening room came from because after a week=
 of
>  Targa Newfoundland we would have tightened the nuts at least one full tu=
rn
>  ... that's 0.055".
> =20
> =20
>  I "forgot" to mention to co-driver Michael O that a likely cause was
>  stretching of the studs..:-).
> =20
> =20
>  Michael S
>  [LINK: http://www.acmefluid.com.au/larry/ahx12.html]
>  http://www.acmefluid.com.au/larry/ahx12.html
> =20
> =20
>  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Steve B. Gerow <[LINK:
>  mailto:[email-masked]] [email-masked]> wrote:
>  Some observations:
>  New Moss gasket - .014"
>  Old gasket originally coated with Hylomar, as removed from axle - .010"
> =20
>  .004" =3D copier paper
> =20
>  My axle is buttoned up with a new gasket and the rear rotor/caliper back
>  in place or I'd try to do a science project here.
> =20
>  For a gasket thickness, perhaps if one were to bolt the assembly togethe=
r
>  without gasket and measure the gap with shims, then add .003" to that.
> =20
>  The new bearing, assembled with heat and cold per Tom Monaco's
>  instructions, is a tight fit in the carrier and axle - IIRC the bearing
>  depends on this more than the compression of the spacer, gasket, etc.
> =20
> =20
>  --
>  Steve Gerow
>  Altadena, CA
>  BN6
> =20
> =20
>  >  -------Original Message-------
>  >  From: [LINK: mailto:[email-masked]] [email-masked]
>  >  To: [LINK: mailto:[email-masked]]
>  [email-masked], [LINK: mailto:[email-masked]]
>  [email-masked], [LINK: mailto:[email-masked]]
>  [email-masked]
>  >  Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question
>  >  Sent: Jan 26 '15 08:41
>  >
>  >  I have not tried it but I doubt it. On the three axles I have actual
>  >  experience with the gasket needed to be Approx. 0.004" thick so that
>  the
>  >  spacer met the specified tolerances in the workshop manual. The
>  gaskets I
>  >  purchased were all approx. 0.010" thick. That would be a lot of
>  squish. You
>  >  would have to squish it without the bearing spacer in place. Then
>  remove
>  >  the axle & measure how much the spacer stood proud of the gasket. The=
n
>  >  reassemble everything, if it met spec. It seemed easier to just make =
a
>  >  gasket of the proper thickness.
>  >
>  >  Gary Hodson
>  >
>  >
>  >  From: Simon Lachlan <[LINK: mailto:[email-masked]]
>  [email-masked]>
>  >  If you soaked the too big gaskets in, say, WD40, wouldn=C2=92t they
>  compress
>  >  down to a proper size as you tightened up?
>  >
>  Support Team.Net [LINK: http://www.team.net/donate.html]
>  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>  Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>  Archive: [LINK: http://www.team.net/archive] http://www.team.net/archive
>  Forums: [LINK: http://www.team.net/forums] http://www.team.net/forums
> =20
>  [LINK: mailto:[email-masked]] [email-masked]
>  [LINK: http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys]
>  Unsubscribe/Manage: [LINK:
>  http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]]
>  http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
> =20
> =20
>  --
> =20
> =20
>  If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

=20

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<div>Steve,</div>

<div>Correct, the O-ring does the actual sealing. </div>

<div>The shop manual states: "the bearing spacer must protrude between 0.00=
1" and 0.004" beyond the face of the hub &amp; paper gasket. This is to mak=
e sure the&nbsp;<u>bearing</u> is firmly gripped between the abutment shoul=
der in the hub and paper washer." </div>

<div>That means that the gasket thickness depends upon the spacer thickness=
, which is why the gasket would be considered a shim. For example:&nbsp;If =
the shim protrudes&nbsp;by 0.010" <strong><u>without</u></strong> the gaske=
t&nbsp;you will need&nbsp;a gasket that is between&nbsp;.006" and .009" thi=
ck.&nbsp;I do not believe&nbsp;we are really compressing the gasket. The ax=
le is held in&nbsp;place by the two small Phillips head screws.&nbsp; We ma=
y be bending the axle flange very slightly to take up the .001"-.004"&nbsp;=
gap when we tighten the lug nuts that hold the splined hub extension onto t=
he hub.</div>

<div>Gary&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Steve B. Gerow <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">steveg@abraz=
osdata.com</a><br>
To: Michael Salter &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: warthodson &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; \\ &lt;[email-masked]=
.uk&gt;; \\ &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 3:36 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1_70038ce4-e52b-4806-ac4a-9d26c0e0801b" style=3D"marg=
in: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Ser=
if; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">

<pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt>The whole idea of the gasket-as-shim has=
 a certain logic to it - except the o-ring does the actual sealing, correct=
?=20

Is this the idea: when we tighten the lug nuts, we compress the gasket from=
, say .014" to .010". At .010, the axle center makes contact with the space=
r ring and bearing, coming to a stop. There is then .010" between the carri=
er and axle flange. The gasket takes up the slack - is the compressed gaske=
t strong enough to in effect be a shim between these two parts?

Michael - maybe when extra-tightening of the lug nuts, the axle flange is a=
lso bending slightly to take up this gap.

Betcha I'm over-thinking this! :-)

--=20
Steve Gerow

&gt;  -------Original Message-------
&gt;  From: Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">m=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;
&gt;  To: Steve B. Gerow &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">stev=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;
&gt;  Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>, =
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
&gt;  Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question
&gt;  Sent: Jan 26 '15 11:28
&gt; =20
&gt;  One other observation on this subject.
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  This is, I believe, the only place on a Healey where 'conical" seat n=
uts
&gt;  are used.
&gt;  It has been my experience that conical seat nuts always require re-to=
rquing
&gt;  after a little  use. Just like the lug nuts on your every day driver =
if
&gt;  you torque them up, then drive the car for a bit you will find that t=
he
&gt;  nuts will take up to half a turn just to restore them to the original
&gt;  torque.
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  That said however I do have to agree with Chris regarding aggressive =
use.
&gt;  On AHX12 we found it necessary to re-torque those nuts after every da=
y of
&gt;  competition and they would always go on an additional flat or so.. I =
always
&gt;  wondered where that extra tightening room came from because after a w=
eek of
&gt;  Targa Newfoundland we would have tightened the nuts at least one full=
 turn
&gt;  ... that's 0.055".
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  I "forgot" to mention to co-driver Michael O that a likely cause was
&gt;  stretching of the studs..:-).
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  Michael S
&gt;  [LINK: <a href=3D"http://www.acmefluid.com.au/larry/ahx12.html" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.acmefluid.com.au/larry/ahx12.html</a>]
&gt;  <a href=3D"http://www.acmefluid.com.au/larry/ahx12.html" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.acmefluid.com.au/larry/ahx12.html</a>
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Steve B. Gerow &lt;[LINK:
&gt;  <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:steveg@abrazosdata.=
com</a>] <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;  Some observations:
&gt;  New Moss gasket - .014"
&gt;  Old gasket originally coated with Hylomar, as removed from axle - .01=
0"
&gt; =20
&gt;  .004" =3D copier paper
&gt; =20
&gt;  My axle is buttoned up with a new gasket and the rear rotor/caliper b=
ack
&gt;  in place or I'd try to do a science project here.
&gt; =20
&gt;  For a gasket thickness, perhaps if one were to bolt the assembly toge=
ther
&gt;  without gasket and measure the gap with shims, then add .003" to that=
.
&gt; =20
&gt;  The new bearing, assembled with heat and cold per Tom Monaco's
&gt;  instructions, is a tight fit in the carrier and axle - IIRC the beari=
ng
&gt;  depends on this more than the compression of the spacer, gasket, etc.
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  --
&gt;  Steve Gerow
&gt;  Altadena, CA
&gt;  BN6
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  &gt;  -------Original Message-------
&gt;  &gt;  From: [LINK: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:wart=
[email-masked]</a>] <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m</a>
&gt;  &gt;  To: [LINK: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mai=
lto:[email-masked]</a>]
&gt;  <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">simon.lachlan@homecal=
l.co.uk</a>, [LINK: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:steve=
[email-masked]</a>]
&gt;  <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>,=
 [LINK: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net</a>]
&gt;  <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
&gt;  &gt;  Subject: Re: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question
&gt;  &gt;  Sent: Jan 26 '15 08:41
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;  I have not tried it but I doubt it. On the three axles I have a=
ctual
&gt;  &gt;  experience with the gasket needed to be Approx. 0.004" thick so=
 that
&gt;  the
&gt;  &gt;  spacer met the specified tolerances in the workshop manual. The
&gt;  gaskets I
&gt;  &gt;  purchased were all approx. 0.010" thick. That would be a lot of
&gt;  squish. You
&gt;  &gt;  would have to squish it without the bearing spacer in place. Th=
en
&gt;  remove
&gt;  &gt;  the axle &amp; measure how much the spacer stood proud of the g=
asket. Then
&gt;  &gt;  reassemble everything, if it met spec. It seemed easier to just=
 make a
&gt;  &gt;  gasket of the proper thickness.
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;  Gary Hodson
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;  From: Simon Lachlan &lt;[LINK: <a href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@=
homecall.co.uk?">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]
&gt;  <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">simon.lachlan@homecal=
l.co.uk</a>&gt;
&gt;  &gt;  Subject: RE: [Healeys] Rear axle gasket question
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;  If you soaked the too big gaskets in, say, WD40, wouldn=C2=92t =
they
&gt;  compress
&gt;  &gt;  down to a proper size as you tightened up?
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;  Just a thought..............
&gt;  &gt;
&gt;  &gt;  Simon
&gt;  _______________________________________________
&gt;  Support Team.Net [LINK: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" t=
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&gt; =20
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&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  --
&gt; =20
&gt; =20
&gt;  If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
</tt></pre>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: "Steve B. Gerow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 16:45:06 -0800

Steve,
Correct, the O-ring does the actual sealing.
Gary - you're right - the manual's very clear. 

In the next few days I'll take mine back apart and report back how far the protrusion is vs the thickness of the gasket, etc.

The shop manual states: "the bearing spacer must protrude between 0.001" and 0.004" beyond the face of the hub & paper gasket. This is to make sure the bearing is firmly gripped between the abutment shoulder in the hub and paper washer."
That means that the gasket thickness depends upon the spacer thickness, which is why the gasket would be considered a shim. For example: If the shim protrudes by 0.010" without the gasket you will need a gasket that is between .006" and .009" thick. I do not believe we are really compressing the gasket. The axle is held in place by the two small Phillips head screws.  We may be bending the axle flange very slightly to take up the .001"-.004" gap when we tighten the lug nuts that hold the splined hub extension onto the hub.
Gary 

[email-masked]

---

From: J Armour <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 15:50:29 +1100

The bearing must be located and restrained laterally by metal to metal
contact on its inner side where the O-ring will compress and have no
influence on location and on the outside where the metal shim will
guarantee metal to metal contact. If done correctly there will still be a
very small clearance between the outer axle face and its matching mating
face on the hub flange. The purpose of the paper gasket is to fill this
void and prevent oil leaks and deflection of the flange.The gasket should
be the thinnest to do the job. A well designed and manufactured gasket
will compress and also have some resiliance to expand. The gasket in the
rear axle case should not be in contact with the bearing/spacing shim ( a
very small surface area ) but will impact on the compression : torque :
stud stretch on the wheel stud and therefore its ability to remain tight.

joe

On 27/01/15 11:45 AM, "Steve B. Gerow" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>In the next few days I'll take mine back apart and report back how far
>the protrusion is vs the thickness of the gasket, etc.
>
>>>>
>The shop manual states: "the bearing spacer must protrude between 0.001"
>and 0.004" beyond the face of the hub & paper gasket. This is to make
>sure the bearing is firmly gripped between the abutment shoulder in the
>hub and paper washer."
>That means that the gasket thickness depends upon the spacer thickness,
>which is why the gasket would be considered a shim. For example: If the
>shim protrudes by 0.010" without the gasket you will need a gasket that
>is between .006" and .009" thick. I do not believe we are really
>compressing the gasket. The axle is held in place by the two small
>Phillips head screws.  We may be bending the axle flange very slightly to
>take up the .001"-.004" gap when we tighten the lug nuts that hold the
>splined hub extension onto the hub.
>Gary 
> 
>--
>Steve Gerow
>Altadena, CA
>BN6
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>
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>Unsubscribe/Manage:
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