Subject: Re: [Healeys] torque wrench

From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:09:35 +0100

In all honesty, when working on steel, cast iron machinery a proper 
engineer would not really need a torque wrench. The size/length of the 
(open or ring) spanner makes it fairly easy to apply the more or less 
correct torque but you have to have the proper "feel" as a good engineer 
should have. You will be surprised about the consistency after a bit of 
practice. But a ham fisted guy would destroy anything.
If working with alloy parts a bit more accuracy/delicacy is wanted for 
the high stress parts like a cylinder head.
Kees Oudesluijs

healeymanjim schreef op 15-1-2015 om 6:47:
> I wonder how many healeys out there have not had a torque wrench close to them in many years. lot of shade tree mechanics back then that had minimum tools working on these cars.
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From: Tracy Drummond <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:27:32 -0800

What is s torque wrench.  Lol.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:47 PM, healeymanjim <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
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From: "Simon Lachlan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:25:55 -0000

Tool named after its inventor, Tomas de Torquemada, who used it for
unspeakable purposes.
Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Tracy
Drummond
Sent: 15 January 2015 20:28
To: healeymanjim
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [Healeys] torque wrench

Sent from my iPhone

> I wonder how many healeys out there have not had a torque wrench close to
them in many years. lot of shade tree mechanics back then that had minimum
tools working on these cars.
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual 
> donation  $12.75
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
> 
$12.75

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From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:53:27 -0500

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--001a11c365aed0c234050cb7e2cb

Way back in the "olden days" when I was doing my aircraft engine fitter
training we were given a graphic demonstration of just how varied the
clamping force that a nut tightened using an accurately calibrated torque
wrench could be.
Forget the 2 - 5% inaccuracy of the wrench and concentrate on clean, unworn
and correctly formed threads, proper countersinking at the top of stud
threads, sufficient thread below the nut, correct lubrication of the
threads, perfectly straight studs, serrated washers or soft washer
materials, correct tightening sequence etc etc..
When you see how those factors can affect the clamping forces the accuracy
of the torque wrench, which BTW in the services had to be checked daily,
you realize that the torque wrench is only a part of the equation!!

Michael S
BN1 #174

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Simon Lachlan <[email-masked]
> wrote:

> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation
> $12.75
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
*If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*

--001a11c365aed0c234050cb7e2cb
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Way back in the &quot;olden days&quot; wh=
en I was doing my aircraft engine fitter training we were given a graphic d=
emonstration of just how varied the clamping force that a nut tightened usi=
ng an accurately calibrated torque wrench could be.<br>Forget the 2 - 5% in=
accuracy of the wrench and concentrate on clean, unworn and correctly forme=
d threads, proper countersinking at the top of stud threads, sufficient thr=
ead below the nut, correct lubrication of the threads, perfectly straight s=
tuds, serrated washers or soft washer materials, correct tightening sequenc=
e etc etc.. <br>When you see how those factors can affect the clamping forc=
es the accuracy of the torque wrench, which BTW in the services had to be c=
hecked daily, you realize that the torque wrench is only a part of the equa=
tion!!<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic=
 sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Michael S<br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">BN=
1 #174<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Simon Lachlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">simon.lach=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
Tool named after its inventor, Tomas de Torquemada, who used it for<br>
unspeakable purposes.<br>
Simon<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Healeys [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">hea=
[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of Tracy<br>
Drummond<br>
Sent: 15 January 2015 20:28<br>
To: healeymanjim<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br=
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [Healeys] torque wrench<br>
<br>
What is s torque wrench.=C2=A0 Lol.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:47 PM, healeymanjim &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healey=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I wonder how many healeys out there have not had a torque wrench close=
 to<br>
them in many years. lot of shade tree mechanics back then that had minimum<=
br>
tools working on these cars.<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Support Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> Suggested annual<br>
&gt; donation=C2=A0 $12.75<br>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt; Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/forums</a><br>
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r>
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blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
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rter.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/b=
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
nk">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> Suggested annual donation<br>
$12.75<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
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[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opt=
ions/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
nk">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a><br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target=3D"_blank=
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<br>
s/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font><span =
style=3D"color:black">If you can&#39;t fix it with a hammer, you&#39;ve got=
 an electrical problem.</span></font></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div=
></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>

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[email-masked]

--===============5072403201792842176==--

---

From: J Armour <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 13:11:14 +1100

--===============5511916175088793260==

--B_3504258680_900332

Interesting comment Michael.  Some years ago when visiting a
workshop/factory that sealed porous engine blocks with the  Locktite
product they had a chart on the wall showing the impact of what you mention
as important factors in how much of the torque figure showing on the tool
readout, or click setting;
Absorbed by friction in the dirty or damaged thread?
How much by the out of square nut : washer:clamping surface?
How much to the cheap commercial washers, not hardened washers?
How much due to no lubrication?

The chart showed that with the same torque reading the clamping force and
that is what we are trying to achieve is severely reduced by some of the
conditions and this is hard to quantify but the significant result for me
was with the same torque setting on the tool when the thread was clean and
in good condition the correct washer and grade of nut used with a light oil
lubricant the clamping force was much closer to the value indicated by the
torque reading. But when lubricated with Locktite it was possible to shear
the bolt

This shows how accurate or inaccurate the effect of the  torque reading can
be

Serious engine builders do not use a torque wrench but measure the actual
effect required and that is clamping force plus an allowance for expansion
due to lpad and heat. Therefore they stretch the bolt to a predetermined
figure. In this situation 'more is not necessarily better'

As a side the Australian Standards for Industrial Fasteners will not use
Torque figures foe structual grade bolts. Don=B9t ask how I know this. I do
know that all the high strength bolts in a freeway bridge already assembled
and torqued up were required to be removed, replaced and new bolts installe=
d
by the calculated 'turn of nut' measurement system using hardened washers

Joe

From:  Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date:  Friday, 16 January 2015 8:53 AM
To:  "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject:  Re: [Healeys] [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: torque wrench

of the torque wrench, which BTW in the services had to be checked daily, yo=
u
realize that the torque wrench is only a part of the equation!!

Michael S
BN1 #174
>=20

--B_3504258680_900332

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Interesting comment Michael.=
 &nbsp;Some years ago when visiting a workshop/factory that sealed porous en=
gine blocks with the &nbsp;Locktite &nbsp;product they had a chart on the wa=
ll showing the impact of what you mention as important factors in how much o=
f the torque figure showing on the tool readout, or click setting;</div><div=
><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Absorbed by fr=
iction in the dirty or damaged thread?</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>How much by the out of square nut : washer=
:clamping surface?</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span>How much to the cheap commercial washers, not hardened washers=
?</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>How=
 much due to no lubrication?</div><div><br></div><div>The chart showed that =
with the same torque reading the clamping force and that is what we are tryi=
ng to achieve is severely reduced by some of the conditions and this is hard=
 to quantify but the significant result for me was with the same torque sett=
ing on the tool when the thread was clean and in good condition the correct =
washer and grade of nut used with a light oil lubricant the clamping force w=
as much closer to the value indicated by the torque reading. But when lubric=
ated with Locktite it was possible to shear the bolt</div><div><br></div><di=
v>This shows how accurate or inaccurate the effect of the &nbsp;torque readi=
ng can be</div><div><br></div><div>Serious engine builders do not use a torq=
ue wrench but measure the actual effect required and that is clamping force =
plus an allowance for expansion due to lpad and heat. Therefore they stretch=
 the bolt to a predetermined figure. In this situation 'more is not necessar=
ily better'</div><div><br></div><div>As a side the Australian Standards for =
Industrial Fasteners will not use Torque figures foe structual grade bolts. =
Don&#8217;t ask how I know this. I do know that all the high strength bolts =
in a freeway bridge already assembled and torqued up were required to be rem=
oved, replaced and new bolts installed by the calculated 'turn of nut' measu=
rement system using hardened washers</div><div><br></div><div>Joe</div><div>=
<br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; f=
ont-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BOR=
DER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT=
: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP=
: 3pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> Michael Salter &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><span=
 style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Friday, 16 January 2015 8:53 AM<br><=
span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net">[email-masked]</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:=
 </span> Re: [Healeys] [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: torque wrench<br></div><div><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic san=
s ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Way back in the "olden days" when I was doi=
ng my aircraft engine fitter training we were given a graphic demonstration =
of just how varied the clamping force that a nut tightened using an accurate=
ly calibrated torque wrench could be.<br>Forget the 2 - 5% inaccuracy of the=
 wrench and concentrate on clean, unworn and correctly formed threads, prope=
r countersinking at the top of stud threads, sufficient thread below the nut=
, correct lubrication of the threads, perfectly straight studs, serrated was=
hers or soft washer materials, correct tightening sequence etc etc.. <br>Whe=
n you see how those factors can affect the clamping forces the accuracy of t=
he torque wrench, which BTW in the services had to be checked daily, you rea=
lize that the torque wrench is only a part of the equation!!<br><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small">Michael S<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:c=
omic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">BN1 #174<br></div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div c=
lass=3D"h5"><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></span></body></html>

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[email-masked]

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