Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid

From: I Erbs <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:42:28 -0700

Dot 4
Castrol Girling

Ira Erbs
IT Educator and Consultant
Portland, OR.

Sent from my mobile phone. What you get may not be what I typed.
On Oct 11, 2013 7:48 AM, "R Phillips" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Cam someone please tell me what brake fluid to use on a BJ8.  I tried to
> get into the archives with no luck (advice here would be helpful as well)
> Thanks
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From: Derek <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:06:52 +0100

...but definitely don't mix 4 with 5!  Derek

Sent from my iPhone

> get into the archives with no luck (advice here would be helpful as well)
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From: Austin Healey <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 22:15:49 +0200

DOT numbers refere to tempretarure resistantness AND material (higher the
nuber, higher the boiling point).

Normaly dot 3,4 an 5.1 (!) can be mixed, dot 5 is a different animal.

Gergo

2013/10/11 Derek <[email-masked]>

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

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From: Alan Seigrist <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 08:28:45 +0800

I highly recommend Castrol Dot 4 LMA, it mixes with dot 3 too.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:48 PM, R Phillips <[email-masked]>wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:33:36 -0700

Wasn't there a recent thread about LMA not being available any more?

Bob

On 10/11/2013 5:28 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

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Bob Spidell           San Jose, CA            [email-masked]

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From: Richard Ewald <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:55:28 -0700

Amazon lists it as in stock.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2013, at 17:33, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
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From: "John Sims" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 21:24:53 -0400

Available at Moss and your local auto shop such as Pep Boys. While some
containers do not have the initials LMA clearly on the label, a descripti0on
elsewhere on the label explains that it is Low Moisture Activity (LMA)
formulated. The discussion, which I believe I started, was about the then
new usage of the word "synthetic" and it was pointed out that brake fluid
has always been synthetic. 
See the discussion:
http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/brake_fluid/page1.html

And:

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=31182&SortOrde
r=20

John Sims, BN6
Aberdeen, NJ

www.healey6.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Bob Spidell
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 8:34 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid

Bob

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---

From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 21:32:17 -0500

People have mentioned DOT 3, 4, and 5, but I don't think anybody had really 
given much background.

When new the cars used DOT 4 fluid, usually if not always Castrol or Girling 
brand.  DOT 3, the stuff you can pick up at the local convenience store or 
wherever, was not recommended.

I believe if you have a totally rebuilt system with new rubber components 
you can now use DOT 3 , willing to be corrected if that is not the case.

Dot 5 can be used as well, but does not mix with DOT 3 or 4, as mentioned, 
DOT 3 and 4 mix ok.  Most people only use DOT 5 after a complete rebuild of 
the system or at least a thorough flush.

So the question is, has your system been rebuilt and what it it running 
now?, most DOT 5 I have seen is purple versus a golden color for most DOT 3 
and 4s, but in an old system with old fluid they will all often all look 
kind of brownish grey.

If you don't know what is in the car you might take a bit out of the 
reservoir and mix it with some DOT 3 and see if it mixes if it is DOT 5 will 
be like oil and water, if not you probably have DOT 4 or three.

So bottom line is most likely it has DOT 4, as the was OEM, but many run DOT 
5 these days and some probably DOT 3 too, since these cars have been around 
for so long hard to know for sure without some testing unless you have a 
reliable history.

Greg Lemon

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From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:26:31 +0200

When new the cars used DOT3 as DOT4 was not available yet. DOT4 is an 
improved DOT3. DOT5 is a silicon brake fluid that is not hygroscopic 
like DOT3/4, however is can not be mixed with DOT3/4 and once a system 
has been filled with DOT3/4 it is not wise to refill the system with 
DOT5 even after it has been rinsed thoroughly. Only if all rubber 
components have been renewed you can use DOT5 safely.
There is another brake fluid DOT5.1 which can be regarded as an improved 
version of DOT4. This does mix with DOT3/4 but not with DOT5.
Use DOT4, any make will do, widely available, cheap and safe. It will 
absorb water so you have to change the fluid every 2-3 years, depending 
on the climate. Because of this you will automatically clean out the 
system periodically
DOT5 hardly absorbs any water, which, if entered, then will collect in 
some low spot in the system and cause corrosion unnoticed. Most people 
think that you do not have to change it periodically because the is no 
water absorption, however there is still wear in the system. It is also 
slightly compressible giving a very slightly spongy feeling. These are 
the reasons I do not like to use it.
A can of worms has been opened again.
Kees Oudesluijs
NL

Op 12-10-2013 4:32, Greg Lemon schreef:
> People have mentioned DOT 3, 4, and 5, but I don't think anybody had 
> really given much background.
>
> When new the cars used DOT 4 fluid, usually if not always Castrol or 
> Girling brand.  DOT 3, the stuff you can pick up at the local 
> convenience store or wherever, was not recommended.
>
> I believe if you have a totally rebuilt system with new rubber 
> components you can now use DOT 3 , willing to be corrected if that is 
> not the case.
>
> Dot 5 can be used as well, but does not mix with DOT 3 or 4, as 
> mentioned, DOT 3 and 4 mix ok.  Most people only use DOT 5 after a 
> complete rebuild of the system or at least a thorough flush.
>
> So the question is, has your system been rebuilt and what it it 
> running now?, most DOT 5 I have seen is purple versus a golden color 
> for most DOT 3 and 4s, but in an old system with old fluid they will 
> all often all look kind of brownish grey.
>
> reservoir and mix it with some DOT 3 and see if it mixes if it is DOT 
> 5 will be like oil and water, if not you probably have DOT 4 or three.
>
> So bottom line is most likely it has DOT 4, as the was OEM, but many 
> run DOT 5 these days and some probably DOT 3 too, since these cars 
> have been around for so long hard to know for sure without some 
> testing unless you have a reliable history.
>
> Greg Lemon
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>
>

-- 
Kees Oudesluijs
Dorpsstraat 183
2995XG Heerjansdam
T: 078-677 1233
E: [email-masked]

Technische commissie Jensen Healey en GT
Het Jensen Genootschap Holland
www.jensenholland.nl
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From: Richard Collins <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 08:17:16 -0500

A friend used DOT 5 on his Ferrari not knowing it was not compatible with DOT
4. His brake lines became filled with a "jello" type substance and needed a
very expensive fix.
Also since most brands of DOT 4 are the same except for price and color,
alternating colors helps the bleeding process.
Re moisture content in brake fluid, I have a small inexpensive device to do
that. Test strips are also available.

Regards,
Richard C

Sent from IPhone

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From: "John Sims" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:28:18 -0400

And that begs the question -- what is the device and where can it be found?

John Sims, BN6
Aberdeen, NJ

www.healey6.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Richard Collins
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 9:17 AM
To: Oudesluys
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid

A friend used DOT 5 on his Ferrari not knowing it was not compatible with
DOT 4. His brake lines became filled with a "jello" type substance and
needed a very expensive fix.
Also since most brands of DOT 4 are the same except for price and color,
alternating colors helps the bleeding process.
Re moisture content in brake fluid, I have a small inexpensive device to do
that. Test strips are also available.

Regards,
Richard C

Sent from IPhone
$12.75

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From: Bob Haskell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:50:25 -0400

I have an OTC 4598 brake fluid tester I bought on amazon.com.  Not sure 
how well it works yet.  The tool doesn't show much water in the fluid 
for the two or three cars I've tested (brake fluid couple years old or 
newer).  FWIW.

Bob Haskell
AHCA 3000 Mk I registrar
http://www.ciahc.org/registry_3000mk1.php

[email-masked]

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From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 16:00:54 +0200

Those who have not had any trouble when replacing DOT4 with DOT5 without 
cleaning and replacing the rubber parts have been very lucky. In many 
cases, but not all, it will result in complete failure. Sadly it is 
impossible to predict problems.

No need for testing DOT3/4, just replace every 2-3 years will do. DOT4 
is cheap enough. Keeps everything safe and moving, incl. the bleed screws.

For testing one could use strips or a refractometer. There are bound to 
be other methods.
Kees Oudesluijs
NL

Op 12-10-2013 15:28, John Sims schreef:
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation
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From: Marvin James <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 07:29:44 -0700

I had a jar of 50/50 DOT 4 and DOT 5 on my workbench for years.
Periodically I would shake it up and the 2 would form a cloudy mix. They
would then separate with no apparent chemical interaction. No sign of any
jelly-like stuff. The purple dye from the DOT 5 did migrate to the DOT 4.

As for availability, Castrol no longer makes LMA. They sell the same stuff
but it is labeled Castrol DOT4.

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Richard Collins
<[email-masked]>wrote:

> DOT
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

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From: "John Sims" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 11:23:32 -0400

Re Castrol LMA Please note the following from their web site:

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9045405&c
ontentId=7081185

While LMA is not prominently displayed on the label, their product
description specifically states that it is LMA

John Sims, BN6
Aberdeen, NJ

www.healey6.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Marvin James
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 10:30 AM
To: Richard Collins
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Richard Collins
<[email-masked]>wrote:

> A friend used DOT 5 on his Ferrari not knowing it was not compatible 
> with DOT 4. His brake lines became filled with a "jello" type 
> substance and needed a very expensive fix.
> Also since most brands of DOT 4 are the same except for price and 
> color, alternating colors helps the bleeding process.
> Re moisture content in brake fluid, I have a small inexpensive device 
> to do that. Test strips are also available.
>
> Regards,
> Richard C
>
> Sent from IPhone
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual 
> donation  $12.75
$12.75

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 10:06:59 -0700

FWIW, Dot3/4 is not perfect.  We totally rebuilt the brake system on our BN2--all new pipes, hoses and cylinders--and 
filled with Castrol LMA Dot 4.  Due to my father's illnesses the car sat for a couple years before we got the rolling 
chassis on the road; in the meantime the brake fluid had completely gelled.

Bob

On 10/12/2013 7:00 AM, Oudesluys wrote:
> Those who have not had any trouble when replacing DOT4 with DOT5 without cleaning and replacing the rubber parts have 
> been very lucky. In many cases, but not all, it will result in complete failure. Sadly it is impossible to predict 
> problems.
>
> No need for testing DOT3/4, just replace every 2-3 years will do. DOT4 is cheap enough. Keeps everything safe and 
> moving, incl. the bleed screws.
>
> For testing one could use strips or a refractometer. There are bound to be other methods.
> Kees Oudesluijs
> NL
>
>

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