Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel (was: tuning and timing)

From: Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 00:58:15 +1000

Short answer..
It has no tetra ethyl lead.
TEL does more than lubricate.
It burns differently than the additives that replace it.
Tell me why modern fuel goes stale and loses up to 5 octane points after 2 or
3 weeks in a drum/ tank????????
Never used to happen with 100 octane 5 star, did it??????
Why is that??
Chris

Sent from my iPhone

On 07/06/2013, at 12:43 AM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> re: "I run Shell V-Power 99 octane."
>
> 'poor quality' fuel?
>
> Bob
>
>
> --------------------------------
> Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
>
> You can call it whatever you want but it is too low octane for our cars and
lower than they were designed for so the shop manual guidelines are not
directly applicable. I run Shell V-Power 99 octane.
>
> BTW most octane boosters do not increase the octane content by the amounts
claimed.
>
> Derek
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Bob Spidell < [email-masked] > wrote:
>
>
> re: "With the poor quality of todays fuel ..."
>
> What quality issues are we having with today's fuel? Many modern
cars--'family' sedans, even--will do 150MPH and 0-60 in six seconds or less on
'pump' gas. I just put 3,773 miles on my BJ8 over 6 states on pump
gas--granted, my car is not high-compression; nominal at best--with no
fuel-related issue. I generally buy the 'name' brands--Chevron, Shell,
etc.--but will buy no-name gas if necessary.
>
> AFAIK, the octane-rating tests--motor ('M') and research ('R'); the US uses
the average of the two--haven't changed in decades, if ever, so today's
91-octane gas has the same anti-detonation quality as 91-octane gas from 1950.
Many, if not all, gas stations have had to replace their underground tanks to
prevent leakage into the environment; the side-effect being there shouldn't be
much 50-year-old crud and water sitting on the bottom. It's only anecdotal,
but I put pump gas--probably containing ethanol--into an unlined steel can for
my lawnmower and have had it sit for 3 years or more with no visible
deterioration of the can or the gas (and the mower still runs fine on it).
>
> Not heckling here; I'd just like to know what fuel quality-related issues
people are having--I haven't heard of any (the carping about alcohol is
another issue--I'm not a fan of the fuel or the political policy, but I
haven't had any trouble with it). Now, if the issue is 95-octane ((R+M)/2) gas
isn't available at the pump any more; well that's not a quality but a
supply&demand or maybe a cost issue (you can get 100-octane avgas at some
stations in the southwest if you're willing to pay $6+/gal).
>
> Bob
>
>
> On 6/5/2013 11:48 PM, Derek Job wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> John
>
> With the poor quality of todays fuel I think that 35 degrees advance is too
> much for a road car. To answer one of your questions, that would be the
> total advance when the mechanical advance is fully operational.
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---

From: "David Porter" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 09:39:10 -0600

....OK OK I know this sounds like another snake oil.... but I'm really
impressed with a product call Star-tron (Google/Bing) it. Different from
typical petro based additives. It's an enzyme formulation. NFI, I just like
it enough to recommend to my customers..
Dave

[email-masked]

Porter Customs   2909 Arno NE
Albuquerque, NM USA 87107
505-352-1378
1954 BN2  1959 AN5
Porter Custom Bicycles

gallery:
http://picasaweb.google.com/porterscustombicycles/PorterCustomBicyclesStuff

GO HERE: http://porterbikes.com/  nice pictures-fun facts-my world

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Chris Dimmock
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 8:58 AM
To: Bob Spidell
Cc: Forum
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel (was: tuning and timing)

Short answer..
Tell me why modern fuel goes stale and loses up to 5 octane points after 2
or

Sent from my iPhone

claimed.
> What quality issues are we having with today's fuel? Many modern
cars--'family' sedans, even--will do 150MPH and 0-60 in six seconds or less
on
the average of the two--haven't changed in decades, if ever, so today's
91-octane gas has the same anti-detonation quality as 91-octane gas from
1950.
Many, if not all, gas stations have had to replace their underground tanks
to
prevent leakage into the environment; the side-effect being there shouldn't
be
much 50-year-old crud and water sitting on the bottom. It's only anecdotal,
but I put pump gas--probably containing ethanol--into an unlined steel can
for
my lawnmower and have had it sit for 3 years or more with no visible
deterioration of the can or the gas (and the mower still runs fine on it).
haven't had any trouble with it). Now, if the issue is 95-octane ((R+M)/2)
gas

[email-masked]

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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---

From: Derek Job <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 16:55:13 +0100

Bob

The original point was that with modern fuel (ie low octane, we can debate
whether it is rubbish or not) then the settings per the shop manual are not
necessary valid because they assumed much higher octane fuel. That is still
the case.

Derek

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> How are you performing your octane-rating tests?
>
> Yes, TEL does more than lubricate.  If fact, TEL was discovered/developed
> at the Sloan-Kettering institute (think it was part of GM at the time) in
> the 1930s in an effort to improve anti-detonation properties of fuel so
> more powerful aircraft piston engines could be developed (some people saw
> WWII coming long before it started).  The lubrication qualities were a
> fortunate side effect.
>
> Anyway, it's a moot point because unleaded gasoline has caused all older
> engines to blow all their exhaust valves through the head already.
>
> Don't know that I've ever seen '100 octane 5-star,' but I'm only 60.
>
>
> Bob
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Short answer..
> or 3 weeks in a drum/ tank????????

[email-masked]

---

From: Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 02:33:34 +1000

How does the world measure octane?
Well. There is
MON
And there is
RON
And there is PON
Your 91 octane in the US is PON? MON?
Healeys are British cars. Imperial measurements. We use RON.
Does the manual specify pints and gallons? Is a pint a pint??
should you just assume when the manual says pints/gallons they are US pints??
Or read it closely and see they (being British) refer to Imperial pints?
If I bought a 1960's Mustang, in Australia, I'd probably just assume that
pints/gallons were US gallons. Not "my" pints/gallons. Mine, being Australian,
were Imperial.
I'm 53. 5 star 100 octane?? Imperial 100 octane?? That would be RON - just
like the 100 Octane fuel they sold in England? The 5 star 100 octane referred
to in BMC manuals???? RON.
That's old school leaded 'super'
They only stopped selling that in Australia about 20 years ago.
Sometimes, you need to read the measurement. RON. MON Imperial pints. US
pints.
Anyway. The issue is about the advance of the ignition for the octane.
Thank goodness there aren't US degrees, or this thread would never end......
;-)

Sent from my iPhone

On 07/06/2013, at 1:30 AM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Yes, TEL does more than lubricate.  If fact, TEL was discovered/developed at
the Sloan-Kettering institute (think it was part of GM at the time) in the
1930s in an effort to improve anti-detonation properties of fuel so more
powerful aircraft piston engines could be developed (some people saw WWII
coming long before it started).  The lubrication qualities were a fortunate
side effect.

[email-masked]