Subject: Re: [Healeys] clutch

From: john spaur <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 12:53:11 -0700

Gary,
Does it disengage and reengage like there a sweet spot in the middle 
of the clutch peddle movement where the clutch is fully disengaged? 
With the transmission cover removed and the car running operate the 
clutch and look at the movement of the slave cylinder push rod. Try 
shifting at different times to see if it disengages and reengages. If 
so you may need to shorten the push rod.

John

At 02:58 PM 6/4/2013 -0400, [email-masked] wrote:
>I recently reinstalled my trans/OD in my BJ8. The OD was sent out for a
>rebuild. The transmission had been working perfectly, prior to removal. I only
>had 25,000 miles on the entire drive train, but while the trans/OD was out I
>decided to replace the clutch disc because it would be easy to do. The old
>disc looked great. It measured 9.5" diameter which is the specification for a
>BJ8 clutch. I picked a new one up at Victoria British, but when I got home it
>measured 9-1/16" diameter. I called Moss & they assured me that their clutch
>measured 9.5" so I ordered it. When it arrived it was identical in every way
>to the Victoria British disc. The exact same product. I knew it was not a big
>difference so I installed it. The thickness of the new disc was slightly (less
>the 1/32") thicker that the old disc. My problem is that now I am having a lot
>of trouble getting into 1st & reverse when stopped, even if I go into 2nd
>before trying to  shift into 1st or reverse. It is acting like the clutch has
>not fully released even though I have the pedal on the floor & there is no air
>in the system. I now have 180 miles on the new clutch. Any ideas what is
>causing this issue & will it go away when the clutch gets more broken in?
>Gary Hodson
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From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 22:09:04 +0200

A new clutch plate will often cause some drag as the waved steel centre 
disc will have to settle, which will decrease the total thickness of the 
clutch plate and make disengaging the clutch easier.
Kees Oudesluijs

Op 4-6-2013 20:58, [email-masked] schreef:
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From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 17:45:12 -0400

Hi Gary,
I have been struggling with exactly the same issue with the new
(aftermarket) clutch that I installed in my Subaru "winter beater".
The disc was considerably thicker than that which I removed and from the
time it was installed it has been "hanging up" and making the engagement of
reverse (non synchronized) almost impossible without turning the engine
off, engaging reverse then restarting the engine with the clutch depressed
completely to the floor.
The problem is, as Kees pointed out, that there is more compressibility in
your new disc and the standard Healey clutch operating mechanism probably
does not deliver sufficient movement at the release bearing to accommodate
that compressibility.
Although you can engage your synchronized 2nd gear to get the innards of
the gearbox stationary without the gnashing of gears that can actually be
pretty hard on the sychromesh if you have to do it for a prolonged period.
Grinding it into reverse or 1st is a definite no-no. Little pieces of
hardened gear teeth will chip off as you do that and they will eventually
find their way into the gearbox bearings and ruin them.
Assuming that you have ensured that the clutch is delivering a full stroke
you really should bite the bullet and change the disc for something with
less compressibility.
BTW do check for wear on the fork and clevis pin of the master cylinder at
the pedal, that can make quite a difference. I wrote a little article on
that which you can read here. <http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=82>
I have now done some 5000 km in the Subaru, without taking my own advice I
might add, and I'm now able to get it into reverse without having to turn
the engine off first then starting it in gear so I can back up.
I should also mention that changing the length of the slave cylinder push
rod may fix the problem BUT lengthening that rod in an effort to do so will
probably result in there being a preload on the release bearing such that
it is forced against the pressure plate at all times resulting in premature
wear of both the bearing and the bearing face on the pressure plate.

Michael S
<http://here.>

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:58 PM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
Michael Salter

[email-masked]

---

From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2013 00:04:57 +0200

Startiing an engine, and certainly the old engines, in gear with the 
clutch pressed down to the floor is a bad idea as you will put a heavy 
load on the axial bearing of the crankshaft when there is no lubrication 
yet. Also your carbon release bearing will be quickly destroyed.
Usually selecting second gear slowly with little pressure on the gear 
lever will do the trick without much harm done to the syncro-ring.
The clutch plate usually settles down after use, in town traffic a bit 
faster, motorway only rather slow.
I have had the same trouble on my Jensen Healey and the Impreza (new 
clutch every ca. 100.000 miles) and both settled down after a few 
thousand miles of very dense Dutch traffic.
Kees Oudesluijs
NL

[email-masked]

---

From: Linwood Rose <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:10:07 -0400

Don't mean to hijack the post, but I have been wondering how you evaluate a
clutch disc (drive plate) to determine if it can or could be reused. I am not
a cheapskate, but I know nothing about when this particular disc was
installed. It may be just fine, don't know.

I assume you measure the width of the friction pads but I don't know the
appropriate specs.

Michael, can you or someone else advise me on this?

Lin

Sent from my iPad

[email-masked]

---

From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2013 00:47:34 +0200

The general rule is tat you replace the complete clutch when the 
transmission is out, unless you know the condition to be very good. A 
clutch assembly is rather cheap compared to a taking a transmission out 
and putting it back in.
Genarally the rivets that hold the ling are about 1,5-2mm below the 
surface of the friction material, depending on the car. Always replace 
the disk if there is/has been any oil contamination, and when the rivet 
are less than 1mm below the surface, when the clutch cover has to be 
renewed and practically always change the release bearing, most 
certainly when it is a carbon ring. Have a look at the flywheel surface, 
if worn, scored or (partly) blued have the surface ground.
Kees Oudesluijs
NL

[email-masked]

---

From: Linwood Rose <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:51:31 -0400

Thanks, Dave and Kees. That took care of my question!
Lin

Sent from my iPhone

> The general rule is tat you replace the complete clutch when the
transmission is out, unless you know the condition to be very good. A clutch
assembly is rather cheap compared to a taking a transmission out and putting
it back in.
> Genarally the rivets that hold the ling are about 1,5-2mm below the surface
of the friction material, depending on the car. Always replace the disk if
there is/has been any oil contamination, and when the rivet are less than 1mm
below the surface, when the clutch cover has to be renewed and practically
always change the release bearing, most certainly when it is a carbon ring.
Have a look at the flywheel surface, if worn, scored or (partly) blued have
the surface ground.
>>> wear of both the bearing and the bearing face on the pressure plate.
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
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---

From: "John Sims" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:08:12 -0400

Personal experience on the master cylinder forks and clevis pins. When I did
my complete brake job two years ago (Master cylinder, reservoir, wheel
cylinders, fourway, pipes, hoses. I found that the old clevis pin was worn
as in Michael's blog. Through a stroke of genius, I checked the clutch
linkage since my head was already up there and found that the fork holes
were worn into ovals and the clevis pin almost worn through although I had
no indication of anything wrong with the clutch. Clevis pins are very cheap
and not worth being overlooked in a normal annual checkup.

John Sims, BN6
Aberdeen, NJ

www.healey6.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Michael Salter
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 5:45 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] clutch

Hi Gary,
I have been struggling with exactly the same issue with the new
(aftermarket) clutch that I installed in my Subaru "winter beater".
The disc was considerably thicker than that which I removed and from the
time it was installed it has been "hanging up" and making the engagement of
reverse (non synchronized) almost impossible without turning the engine off,
engaging reverse then restarting the engine with the clutch depressed
completely to the floor.
The problem is, as Kees pointed out, that there is more compressibility in
your new disc and the standard Healey clutch operating mechanism probably
does not deliver sufficient movement at the release bearing to accommodate
that compressibility.
Although you can engage your synchronized 2nd gear to get the innards of the
gearbox stationary without the gnashing of gears that can actually be pretty
hard on the sychromesh if you have to do it for a prolonged period.
Grinding it into reverse or 1st is a definite no-no. Little pieces of
hardened gear teeth will chip off as you do that and they will eventually
find their way into the gearbox bearings and ruin them.
Assuming that you have ensured that the clutch is delivering a full stroke
you really should bite the bullet and change the disc for something with
less compressibility.
BTW do check for wear on the fork and clevis pin of the master cylinder at
the pedal, that can make quite a difference. I wrote a little article on
that which you can read here. <http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=82>
I have now done some 5000 km in the Subaru, without taking my own advice I
might add, and I'm now able to get it into reverse without having to turn
the engine off first then starting it in gear so I can back up.
I should also mention that changing the length of the slave cylinder push
rod may fix the problem BUT lengthening that rod in an effort to do so will
probably result in there being a preload on the release bearing such that it
is forced against the pressure plate at all times resulting in premature
wear of both the bearing and the bearing face on the pressure plate.

Michael S
<http://here.>

[email-masked]