Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100-6 BN4 brake bleeding - follow up

From: F Ronald Rader <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:43:07 -0700

change the rubber brake lines.
they are flexing?
ron

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:15 PM,  <[email-masked]> wrote:
> UGH!  A cliff...is what I need to push this thing over.
>
> Early BN4.
>
> First, thanks to all for the many brake bleeding/air removal suggestions.
>
> Today, I bled them again, and...no joy.  I took the drums off and checked that
> the shoes were radiused to the drums, which they are.  All six wheel cylinders
> in the car are new and correct.  The shoes are new also.  The drums have been
> cut very slightly, they are not oversized.  The master cylinder is rebuilt,
> correctly, and has a perfect bore.  It is a 3/4" diameter cylinder and is
> correct.  First, I bled the brakes the traditional way, master cylinder to
> wheels, with a helper pushing the pedal, and me opening and closing the valves
> at the cylinders.  The rears went well, no air at all after bleeding.  The
> fronts are pure evil.  I bled them master to wheel, then reverse bled them
> wheel to master.  I STILL have a pedal that I need to press 1 1/2 times to
> achieve a solid pedal.  When I hold the pedal there, it does not sink, it is
> firm and stays firm.  But that first press of the pedal goes to the floor.  I
> can tell that I am moving fluid, and if I spin a wheel by hand, and have the
> helper step on the pedal, the wheel stops instantly.  I then did the clamping
> off of brake hoses thing.  When I clamped the rear hose, there was a very
> slight improvement at the pedal, but not much.  When I clamped one of the
> front wheels, I then had a pedal that got firm with 1/2 of a push.  Same with
> the other front wheel, so, I'm thinking the problem lies at the front wheels.
> But, I've bled AND reverse bled them!  I don't know what else to do, though it
> certainly seems that there is still air in the system.  How that is even
> possible, I don't know.  I have no leaks at any of the lines or hose fittings.
> But I've now bled through six pints of brake fluid and it seems pretty much
> the same as it was when I started.  Anyone have any other thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul B.
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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 23:02:37 -0400 (EDT)

Yes, I adjusted them up to the drums, then backed them off so they were just
slightly scraping.  Though I can't really drive the car to center the shoes to
the drums, I adjusted the shoes up as close as I could get them, then by hand
rotated the drum back and forth numerous times until the shoes eased up a
little bit, then adjusted them to the drum again, turned the drum again, etc.
until I go no change.

Thanks for your ideas Mike!

 - Paul B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
To: fiat500f <[email-masked]>
Cc: healeys <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 10:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100-6 BN4 brake bleeding - follow up

Paul you don't mention having adjusted the brakes before starting. I
presume you have done that?

Michael S

On 2012-10-22, at 10:31 PM, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> the same as it was when I started.  Anyone have any other

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 03:02:55 +0000

Paul -

I think your BN4 uses the same type of brake cylinders as my 100 and A90.  The trick here is to use a gentle pressure system (such as ezibleed) which helps force the air out of the cylinder through the bleed valve which is placed on the bottom of the cylinder rather than the top where it should be.  That's how I get it done.

Alan
  
Sent from my BlackBerry. smartphone 
www.blackberry.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Healeys] 100-6 BN4 brake bleeding - follow up

Early BN4.

Thanks,
Paul B.

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: "David Porter" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:05:55 -0600

Paul,
 Put clamps on all the flex lines. The pedal should be rock hard. If it
isn't then it's the master or a leak in the hard lines. Remove the clamps
one at a time until you find the offending wheel cylinder. Fix that and you
should have a brake system. 
Dave

[email-masked]

Porter Customs   2909 Arno NE
Albuquerque, NM USA 87107
505-352-1378
1954 BN2  1959 AN5
Porter Custom Bicycles

cars:
 www.britishcarforum.com/portercustoms.html
gallery:
http://picasaweb.google.com/porterscustombicycles/PorterCustomBicyclesStuff

GO HERE: http://porterbikes.com/  nice pictures-fun facts-my world

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 8:16 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Healeys] 100-6 BN4 brake bleeding - follow up

Early BN4.

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 23:09:40 -0400 (EDT)

This will be the first thing I will do on Thursday when I can work on the
beast again.  I've got to localize the problem.
Thanks David!

 - Paul B.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Porter <[email-masked]>
To: fiat500f <[email-masked]>; healeys <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 11:05 pm
Subject: RE: [Healeys] 100-6 BN4 brake bleeding - follow up

Paul,

cars:

-----Original Message-----

Early BN4.

[email-masked]

---

From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:23:24 +0200

Paul,

If the brake pedal does not feel spongy but is firm after it gets 
pressure, it is not air in the system. It is play in the system, 
probably the brake shoes that need proper adjustment or possibly the 
pedal/master brake cylinder rod/connection needs looking at.
Kees Oudesluijs
NL

Op 23-10-2012 4:15, [email-masked] schreef:
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-- 
Kees Oudesluijs
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2995XG Heerjansdam
T: 078-677 1233
E: [email-masked]

Technische commissie Jensen Healey en GT
Het Jensen Genootschap Holland
www.jensenholland.nl
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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:49:22 -0400 (EDT)

This seems to suggest to me that the front brake shoes are adjusted too loose.
Try adjusting the brakes tighter to see if this helps. There should be a very
slight dragging of the brakes. Also, when bleeding it is often helpful to
temporarily adjust the brakes full tight so that when you pump the pedal the
slaves cannot move & the fluid has no where to go but out. The fluid will flow
faster because the slaves cannot move which will help cause trapped bubbles to
be entrained in the flow & move on out.
Gary Hodson

-----Original Message-----
From: fiat500f <[email-masked]>
To: healeys <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 9:32 pm
Subject: [Healeys] 100-6 BN4 brake bleeding - follow up

Early BN4.

Today, I bled them again, and...no joy.  I took the drums off and checked
that
the shoes were radiused to the drums, which they are.  All six wheel
cylinders
in the car are new and correct.  The shoes are new also.  The drums have been
cut very slightly, they are not oversized.  The master cylinder is rebuilt,
correctly, and has a perfect bore.  It is a 3/4" diameter cylinder and is
correct.  First, I bled the brakes the traditional way, master cylinder to
wheels, with a helper pushing the pedal, and me opening and closing the
valves
at the cylinders.  The rears went well, no air at all after bleeding.  The
fronts are pure evil.  I bled them master to wheel, then reverse bled them
wheel to master.  I STILL have a pedal that I need to press 1 1/2 times to
achieve a solid pedal.  When I hold the pedal there, it does not sink, it is
firm and stays firm.  But that first press of the pedal goes to the floor.  I
can tell that I am moving fluid, and if I spin a wheel by hand, and have the
helper step on the pedal, the wheel stops instantly.  I then did the clamping
off of brake hoses thing.  When I clamped the rear hose, there was a very
slight improvement at the pedal, but not much.  When I clamped one of the
front wheels, I then had a pedal that got firm with 1/2 of a push.  Same with
the other front wheel, so, I'm thinking the problem lies at the front wheels.
But, I've bled AND reverse bled them!  I don't know what else to do, though
it
certainly seems that there is still air in the system.  How that is even
possible, I don't know.  I have no leaks at any of the lines or hose
fittings.
But I've now bled through six pints of brake fluid and it seems pretty much
the same as it was when I started.  Anyone have any other thoughts?

Thanks,
Paul B.

[email-masked]

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
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