Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings

From: Ponostyle via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 17:48:39 -0700

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I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost difference =
for an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot instead of =
ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the =
second F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious oil =
leak that would have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather =
that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all =
this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in and =
got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) =
and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But =
it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for =
shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight foot bed. So long, as in =
REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up to Fritz, my =
34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid city =
block.=20

But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me =
in parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a =
Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I =
get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot =
off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and =
you=E2=80=99re gold.=20

My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck.=20

> On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> I realize everyone has their own preferred answer.  That said:
> I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.  Heck, we've =
killed two trailers in that time.  It'll hit 400K miles before the end =
of 2020 as long as we dont have any more races cancelled.  It has a =
swaybar hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to =
get a upset and require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the =
whites.
>=20
> It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and =
alternators.  I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of our =
crew cab model.
>=20
> Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban.  An uphill departure from a fuel =
or lunch stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few =
seconds.  The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it does.
>=20
> And yes, it's my around town daily driver.
>=20
> I recall asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I =
should consider a dually.  His reply was that I should only buy such a =
thing if I liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel =
trailer.  Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with =
broken glass rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite =
wide enough.
>=20
> Just my experience.
> Mike=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: "Barr, Scott via Fot"=20
> Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 PM=20
> To: Amici Triumphi=20
> Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings=20
>=20
> Hi all,
> =20
> I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few =
years now.  It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in =
the back and 10 feet of RV in the front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen =
area).  All in, full of water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs.  I =
load the trailer so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is =
technically a little over the payload limit of the truck, but not too =
bad.
> =20
> I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package =
putting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with =
375hp and 470 ft lb torque.  I use a good weight-distributing hitch and =
a sway control strut.  And I added Air Lift air suspension to help with =
the extra load.  Generally speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine. =
 But when it=E2=80=99s windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, =
wagging enough sometimes to set off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic =
trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big baby=E2=80=A6).
> =20
> So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 =
super duty would make an appreciable difference in the towing =
performance.  An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, =
depending on specs of both trucks.  Is that enough to make a noticeable =
difference?  Are there other factors that would make it that much better =
than an F-150?
> =20
> The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice =
street car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 average) =E2=80=93 and =
it=E2=80=99s what I drive all winter.  The F-250 Super Duty will get =
considerably crappier mileage and will be a less friendly daily driver =
(I assume).  Not to mention that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off =
and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another boatload of debt to move up to the =
F-250.  Which is all to say that the towing performance improvement =
would need to be considerable before I would make the move.=20
> =20
> What say you, towing brain trust?  Is it worth the move?
> =20
> Scott (B.)
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I=E2=80=
=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost difference for an =
F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot instead of =
ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the =
second F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious oil =
leak that would have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather =
that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all =
this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in and =
got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) =
and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But =
it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for =
shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight foot bed. So long, as in =
REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up to Fritz, my =
34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid city =
block.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">But the =
diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me in =
parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a =
Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I =
get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot =
off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and =
you=E2=80=99re gold.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I =
realize everyone has their own preferred answer.&nbsp; That said:<div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel =
since it was new.&nbsp; Heck, we've killed two trailers in that =
time.&nbsp; It'll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 as long as we =
dont have any more races cancelled.&nbsp; It has a swaybar hitch that =
helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a upset and =
require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the whites.</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">It's been quite reliable with the =
exception of AC systems and alternators.&nbsp; I now travel with a spare =
alt behind the rear seat of our crew cab model.</div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban.&nbsp; An uphill =
departure from a fuel or lunch stop made a lot of noise but very little =
movement for a few seconds.&nbsp; The F350 diesel is like a mule, say =
"go" and it does.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">And yes, it's my =
around town daily driver.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">I recall asking =
my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I should consider a =
dually.&nbsp; His reply was that I should only buy such a thing if I =
liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel trailer.&nbsp; =
Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with broken glass =
rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite wide =
enough.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Just my =
experience.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Mike&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 5px; =
margin-left: 0px; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal; font-style: =
normal; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">From: "Barr, =
Scott via Fot"<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><[email-masked] =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 PM<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">To: Amici =
Triumphi<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><[email-masked] =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"margin: 0px; page: =
WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi =
all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been =
towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few years now.&nbsp; =
It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back and =
10 feet of RV in the front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area).&nbsp; =
All in, full of water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs.&nbsp; I =
load the trailer so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is =
technically a little over the payload limit of the truck, but not too =
bad.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been =
towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package putting towing capacity =
at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 ft lb =
torque. &nbsp;I use a good weight-distributing hitch and a sway control =
strut. &nbsp;And I added Air Lift air suspension to help with the extra =
load. &nbsp;Generally speaking, the F-150 has been doing just =
fine.&nbsp; But when it=E2=80=99s windy the trailer gets a little =
tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to set off the truck=E2=80=99s =
automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big baby=E2=80=A6).<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">So I=E2=80=99ve been =
trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 super duty would make =
an appreciable difference in the towing performance.&nbsp; An F-250 is =
1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, depending on specs of both =
trucks.&nbsp; Is that enough to make a noticeable difference?&nbsp; Are =
there other factors that would make it that much better than an =
F-150?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The F-150 with the =
twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice street car, with =
reasonable mileage (about 19 average) =E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s what I =
drive all winter.&nbsp; The F-250 Super Duty will get considerably =
crappier mileage and will be a less friendly daily driver (I =
assume).&nbsp; Not to mention that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off =
and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another boatload of debt to move up to the =
F-250.&nbsp; Which is all to say that the towing performance improvement =
would need to be considerable before I would make the move.&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">What say you, towing =
brain trust?&nbsp; Is it worth the move?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Scott (B.)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></[email-masked]></[email-masked].=
net></blockquote></div></div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
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text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

--===============0037023743153353287==--

---

From: Spitfire Racing via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 21:55:22 -0400

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An F-350 4x4 XLT with a 7.3L turbo diesel is the hot ticket. I have an =
=E2=80=9903 I bought damaged with 16K on it; replaced the front clip and =
frame and it=E2=80=99s been a great truck since. That was the last year =
of production for the 7.3 turbo option. Key improvements over a lesser =
truck are the brakes; axle ratings; suspension. This truck was fully =
loaded and has been trouble free after sorting a few things out that =
resulted when it came to a sudden stop prior to my purchase. (but not as =
sudden as the vehicle ahead of it)

Incredible torque and brakes up to the task. I tow a 24=E2=80=99 =
enclosed dual axle trailer. I also use a 34=E2=80=99 Ford based V-10 =
powered F-550 chassis motorhome when going to races. It=E2=80=99s a =
=E2=80=9999 we ordered new and now has only 48K on it. The F-350 now has =
~68K on it.

Not cats; no DEF to contend with. I did replace the exhaust w/ a =
4=E2=80=9DSS system which added power and mpg. Not noisy!

=20

The chassis of the f-350 is treated every year before winter with Fluid =
Film, a rust preventive lanolin product. Great stuff and one of the few =
effective defenses against the rust in the Northeast winters.

=20

Russ

=20

From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ponostyle via =
Fot
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:49 PM
To: Mike Jackson
Cc: Amici Triumphi
Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.  Heck, we've killed =
two trailers in that time.  It'll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 =
as long as we dont have any more races cancelled.  It has a swaybar =
hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a =
upset and require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the whites.

=20

=20

Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban.  An uphill departure from a fuel or =
lunch stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few =
seconds.  The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it does.

=20

=20

=20

Just my experience.

Mike=20

Hi all,

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Scott (B.)

 <http://www.fot-racing.com/> http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive:  <http://autox.team.net/archive> http://autox.team.net/archive  =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot> http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]> =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

=20

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space;line-break:after-white-space'><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>An F-350 4x4 XLT with a 7.3L turbo diesel is the hot ticket. I have =
an =E2=80=9903 I bought damaged with 16K on it; replaced the front clip =
and frame and it=E2=80=99s been a great truck since. That was the last =
year of production for the 7.3 turbo option. Key improvements over a =
lesser truck are the brakes; axle ratings; suspension. This truck was =
fully loaded and has been trouble free after sorting a few things out =
that resulted when it came to a sudden stop prior to my purchase. (but =
not as sudden as the vehicle ahead of it)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Incredible torque and brakes up to the task. I tow a 24=E2=80=99 =
enclosed dual axle trailer. I also use a 34=E2=80=99 Ford based V-10 =
powered F-550 chassis motorhome when going to races. It=E2=80=99s a =
=E2=80=9999 we ordered new and now has only 48K on it. The F-350 now has =
~68K on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Not cats; no DEF to contend with. I did replace the exhaust w/ a =
4=E2=80=9DSS system which added power and mpg. Not =
noisy!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The chassis of the f-350 is treated every year before winter with =
Fluid Film, a rust preventive lanolin product. Great stuff and one of =
the few effective defenses against the rust in the Northeast =
winters.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Russ<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ponostyle =
via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:49 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Mike Jackson<br><b>Cc:</b> Amici =
Triumphi<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Tow Vehicle =
Musings<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99d =
say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost difference for an F350 =
is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot instead of ordering. I =
tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the second F350 =
I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious oil leak that would =
have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather that removing the =
cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all this happened when I =
needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in and got a 2018 F350. The =
new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) and didn=E2=80=99t =
have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But it=E2=80=99s a MUCH =
better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for shit. It=E2=80=99s a =
twin cab with an eight foot bed. So long, as in REALLY long. I think =
it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up to Fritz, my 34=E2=80=99 Airstream =
Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid city =
block.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step =
right in front of me in parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me =
coming. Weird for a Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. =
With the trailer I get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to =
climb. Keep your foot off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in =
cruise at 65=E2=80=94and you=E2=80=99re =
gold.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>My next truck will be a maxed out =
cybertruck.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I realize =
everyone has their own preferred answer.&nbsp; That =
said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I've had our =
2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.&nbsp; Heck, we've killed two =
trailers in that time.&nbsp; It'll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 =
as long as we dont have any more races cancelled.&nbsp; It has a swaybar =
hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a =
upset and require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the =
whites.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It's been =
quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and alternators.&nbsp; I =
now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of our crew cab =
model.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Previous tow =
vehicle was a Suburban.&nbsp; An uphill departure from a fuel or lunch =
stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few =
seconds.&nbsp; The F350 diesel is like a mule, say &quot;go&quot; and it =
does.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>And yes, it's =
my around town daily driver.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I recall =
asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I should =
consider a dually.&nbsp; His reply was that I should only buy such a =
thing if I liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel =
trailer.&nbsp; Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies =
with broken glass rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not =
quite wide enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Just my =
experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Mike&nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----Original=
 Message-----<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>From: =
&quot;Barr, Scott via Fot&quot;<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 =
PM<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>To: Amici =
Triumphi<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>Subject: =
[Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>Hi all,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler =
style trailer for a few years now.&nbsp; It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =
=E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back and 10 feet of RV in the =
front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area).&nbsp; All in, full of =
water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs.&nbsp; I load the trailer =
so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is technically a =
little over the payload limit of the truck, but not too bad.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a =
max tow package putting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin =
turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 ft lb torque. &nbsp;I use a good =
weight-distributing hitch and a sway control strut. &nbsp;And I added =
Air Lift air suspension to help with the extra load. &nbsp;Generally =
speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine.&nbsp; But when =
it=E2=80=99s windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough =
sometimes to set off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm =
(it=E2=80=99s a big baby=E2=80=A6).</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>So =
I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 =
super duty would make an appreciable difference in the towing =
performance.&nbsp; An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, =
depending on specs of both trucks.&nbsp; Is that enough to make a =
noticeable difference?&nbsp; Are there other factors that would make it =
that much better than an F-150?</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>The =
F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice street =
car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 average) =E2=80=93 and =
it=E2=80=99s what I drive all winter.&nbsp; The F-250 Super Duty will =
get considerably crappier mileage and will be a less friendly daily =
driver (I assume).&nbsp; Not to mention that my F-150 is pretty close to =
paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another boatload of debt to move =
up to the F-250.&nbsp; Which is all to say that the towing performance =
improvement would need to be considerable before I would make the =
move.&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>What say you, towing brain trust?&nbsp; Is it =
worth the move?</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>Scott (B.)</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>______=
_________________________________________<br></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span =
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---

From: "van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 11:52:02 +0200 (CEST)

--===============8066974229556939980==
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A Renault Alpine is not the usual towcar,but it served me well for 240,000k=
ms, and I used it for towing a trailer for some years. At race week-ends, I=
 stowed it full of spares and did sleep in it (the passenger seats were rem=
oved).=20
It is a A610, with a turbo 3 litres 250 bhp, rear engined and of course rea=
r drive.(same specs as the Porsche911 of that era, only more comfortable an=
d quiet) It was a stable configuration. Once in Germany, the police arreste=
d me for speeding, importing 70 litres of petrol and overtaking where it wa=
s not allowed. Only the ovetaking was fined, because the speedometer of the=
ir car was not an official device and I had a receipt for the fuel, confirm=
ing that it was bought in Germany (Germany has some petrol stations where f=
uel of 102 RON is sold).=20
Marcel=20
Van: "fot" <[email-masked]>=20
Aan: "Ponostyle" <[email-masked]>, "Mike Jackson" <grandwazoo@earthlink=
.net>=20
Cc: "fot" <[email-masked]>=20
Verzonden: Donderdag 24 september 2020 03:55:22=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings=20

An F-350 4x4 XLT with a 7.3L turbo diesel is the hot ticket. I have an =E2=
=80=9903 I bought damaged with 16K on it; replaced the front clip and frame=
 and it=E2=80=99s been a great truck since. That was the last year of produ=
ction for the 7.3 turbo option. Key improvements over a lesser truck are th=
e brakes; axle ratings; suspension. This truck was fully loaded and has bee=
n trouble free after sorting a few things out that resulted when it came to=
 a sudden stop prior to my purchase. (but not as sudden as the vehicle ahea=
d of it)=20

Incredible torque and brakes up to the task. I tow a 24=E2=80=99 enclosed d=
ual axle trailer. I also use a 34=E2=80=99 Ford based V-10 powered F-550 ch=
assis motorhome when going to races. It=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9999 we ordered =
new and now has only 48K on it. The F-350 now has ~68K on it.=20

Not cats; no DEF to contend with. I did replace the exhaust w/ a 4=E2=80=9D=
SS system which added power and mpg. Not noisy!=20

The chassis of the f-350 is treated every year before winter with Fluid Fil=
m, a rust preventive lanolin product. Great stuff and one of the few effect=
ive defenses against the rust in the Northeast winters.=20

Russ=20

From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ponostyle via Fo=
t=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:49 PM=20
To: Mike Jackson=20
Cc: Amici Triumphi=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings=20

I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost difference for =
an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot instead of orderi=
ng. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the second F350 I=
=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious oil leak that would hav=
e required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather that removing the cab is=
=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all this happened when I needed m=
y truck in a week, so I traded it in and got a 2018 F350. The new one came =
right off the lot (I was in a hurry) and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy =
shit my previous one had. But it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, though I ca=
n=E2=80=99t park it for shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight foot be=
d. So long, as in REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up=
 to Fritz, my 34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid=
 city block.=20

But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me in =
parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a Diesel.=
 Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I get 16 if =
there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot off the accele=
rator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and you=E2=80=99re gol=
d.=20

On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot < [ mailto:[email-masked]=
.net | [email-masked] ] > wrote:=20

I realize everyone has their own preferred answer. That said:=20

I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new. Heck, we've killed two=
 trailers in that time. It'll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 as long=
 as we dont have any more races cancelled. It has a swaybar hitch that help=
s but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a upset and require a=
 bit of opposite lock to keep it between the whites.=20

It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and alternators. =
I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of our crew cab model.=
=20

Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban. An uphill departure from a fuel or lun=
ch stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few seconds. The=
 F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it does.=20

And yes, it's my around town daily driver.=20

I recall asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I shoul=
d consider a dually. His reply was that I should only buy such a thing if I=
 liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel trailer. Shortly=
 after that I started noticing lots of duallies with broken glass rear fend=
ers from trying to turn in places just not quite wide enough.=20

Just my experience.=20

Mike=20

Hi all,=20

I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few years=
 now. It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back an=
d 10 feet of RV in the front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area). All in=
, full of water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs. I load the trailer =
so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is technically a littl=
e over the payload limit of the truck, but not too bad.=20

I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package putting =
towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and =
470 ft lb torque. I use a good weight-distributing hitch and a sway control=
 strut. And I added Air Lift air suspension to help with the extra load. Ge=
nerally speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine. But when it=E2=80=99s=
 windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to se=
t off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big =
baby=E2=80=A6).=20

So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 supe=
r duty would make an appreciable difference in the towing performance. An F=
-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, depending on specs of both =
trucks. Is that enough to make a noticeable difference? Are there other fac=
tors that would make it that much better than an F-150?=20

The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice street=
 car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 average) =E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s=
 what I drive all winter. The F-250 Super Duty will get considerably crappi=
er mileage and will be a less friendly daily driver (I assume). Not to ment=
ion that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taking on =
another boatload of debt to move up to the F-250. Which is all to say that =
the towing performance improvement would need to be considerable before I w=
ould make the move.=20

What say you, towing brain trust? Is it worth the move?=20

Scott (B.)=20

_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ]=20

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20

 ]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
yle.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] ]=20

_______________________________________________=20
[email-masked]=20

http://www.fot-racing.com=20

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
[email-masked]=20

--=_de4a7347-7734-4a63-86ea-a427ac62be11
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div><style>/*<![CDATA[*/p.MsoNormal, l=
i.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {
=09margin: 0.0in;
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/*]]>*/</style></div><div><br></div><div> <!--StartFragment--><img src=3D"h=
ttps://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/10842138_10204274185714033_49=
24258384272217367_o.jpg?_nc_cat=3D100&amp;_nc_sid=3Dcdbe9c&amp;_nc_ohc=3DYE=
XQxXn5XvYAX_x92Nn&amp;_nc_ht=3Dscontent-bru2-1.xx&amp;oh=3Deb309e540f1e4498=
76b9fc668b4533f2&amp;oe=3D5F90E9EA" data-mce-src=3D"https://scontent-bru2-1=
.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/10842138_10204274185714033_4924258384272217367_o.jp=
g?_nc_cat=3D100&amp;_nc_sid=3Dcdbe9c&amp;_nc_ohc=3DYEXQxXn5XvYAX_x92Nn&amp;=
_nc_ht=3Dscontent-bru2-1.xx&amp;oh=3Deb309e540f1e449876b9fc668b4533f2&amp;o=
e=3D5F90E9EA"><!--EndFragment--> </div><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__">A R=
enault Alpine is not the usual towcar,but it served me well for 240,000kms,=
 and I used it for towing a trailer for some years. At race week-ends, I st=
owed it full of spares and did sleep in it (the passenger seats were remove=
d).</div><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__">It is a A610, with a turbo 3 litr=
es 250 bhp, rear engined and of course rear drive.(same specs as the Porsch=
e911 of that era, only more comfortable and quiet) It was a stable configur=
ation. Once in Germany, the police arrested me for speeding, importing 70 l=
itres of petrol and overtaking where it was not allowed. Only the ovetaking=
 was fined, because the speedometer of their car was not an official device=
 and I had a receipt for the fuel, confirming that it was bought in Germany=
 (Germany has some petrol stations where fuel of 102 RON&nbsp; is sold).&nb=
sp;</div><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__">Marcel&nbsp;</div><div data-marke=
r=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Aan: <=
/b>"Ponostyle" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "Mike Jackson" &lt;grandwazoo@ea=
rthlink.net&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Verzon=
den: </b>Donderdag 24 september 2020 03:55:22<br><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot=
] Tow Vehicle Musings<br></div><div><br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_=
TEXT__"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif';color:#1f497d">An F-350 =
4x4 XLT with a 7.3L turbo diesel is the hot ticket. I have an =E2=80=9903 I=
 bought damaged with 16K on it; replaced the front clip and frame and it=E2=
=80=99s been a great truck since. That was the last year of production for =
the 7.3 turbo option. Key improvements over a lesser truck are the brakes; =
axle ratings; suspension. This truck was fully loaded and has been trouble =
free after sorting a few things out that resulted when it came to a sudden =
stop prior to my purchase. (but not as sudden as the vehicle ahead of it)</=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'=
calibri' , 'sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Incredible torque and brakes up to t=
he task. I tow a 24=E2=80=99 enclosed dual axle trailer. I also use a 34=E2=
=80=99 Ford based V-10 powered F-550 chassis motorhome when going to races.=
 It=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9999 we ordered new and now has only 48K on it. The =
F-350 now has ~68K on it.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Not cats;=
 no DEF to contend with. I did replace the exhaust w/ a 4=E2=80=9DSS system=
 which added power and mpg. Not noisy!</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif';color:#1f49=
7d">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif';color:#1f497d">The chassis of the f-350=
 is treated every year before winter with Fluid Film, a rust preventive lan=
olin product. Great stuff and one of the few effective defenses against the=
 rust in the Northeast winters.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif';color:#1f497d">&nb=
sp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:'calibri' , 'sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Russ</span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif';c=
olor:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:so=
lid #b5c4df 1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma' , 'sans-serif'">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma' , 'sans-serif'"> Fot [ma=
ilto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ponostyle via Fot<br><=
b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Mike Jackso=
n<br><b>Cc:</b> Amici Triumphi<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Mus=
ings</span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost differe=
nce for an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot instead o=
f ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the secon=
d F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious oil leak that w=
ould have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather that removing the=
 cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all this happened when I n=
eeded my truck in a week, so I traded it in and got a 2018 F350. The new on=
e came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) and didn=E2=80=99t have all the=
 fancy shit my previous one had. But it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, thou=
gh I can=E2=80=99t park it for shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight =
foot bed. So long, as in REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hoo=
k it up to Fritz, my 34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s =
a solid city block.&nbsp;</p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal">But the diesel engine is so quiet that people ste=
p right in front of me in parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me c=
oming. Weird for a Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. Wit=
h the trailer I get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Kee=
p your foot off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=
=80=94and you=E2=80=99re gold.&nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&=
nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">My next truck will be a maxed ou=
t cybertruck.&nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5p=
t;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 P=
M, Mike Jackson via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wr=
ote:</p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">I r=
ealize everyone has their own preferred answer.&nbsp; That said:</span></p>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'ari=
al' , 'sans-serif'">I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.&nb=
sp; Heck, we've killed two trailers in that time.&nbsp; It'll hit 400K mile=
s before the end of 2020 as long as we dont have any more races cancelled.&=
nbsp; It has a swaybar hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still=
 cause it to get a upset and require a bit of opposite lock to keep it betw=
een the whites.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'ari=
al' , 'sans-serif'">It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC syste=
ms and alternators.&nbsp; I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear sea=
t of our crew cab model.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-fa=
mily:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban.&nbsp; An =
uphill departure from a fuel or lunch stop made a lot of noise but very lit=
tle movement for a few seconds.&nbsp; The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "=
go" and it does.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'ar=
ial' , 'sans-serif'">And yes, it's my around town daily driver.</span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family=
:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">I recal=
l asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I should consi=
der a dually.&nbsp; His reply was that I should only buy such a thing if I =
liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel trailer.&nbsp; Sh=
ortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with broken glass rear=
 fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite wide enough.</span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-fam=
ily:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">Just=
 my experience.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-bottom:12pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-se=
rif'">Mike&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12=
pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'arial' , 'sans-serif'">-----=
Original Message-----<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br=
>From: "Barr, Scott via Fot"<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</s=
pan><br>Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 PM<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nb=
sp;</span><br>To: Amici Triumphi<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span><br>Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings<span class=3D"apple-converte=
d-space">&nbsp;</span></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">Hi all,</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'century gothic' ,=
 'sans-serif'">I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer =
for a few years now.&nbsp; It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D=
 space in the back and 10 feet of RV in the front (toilet, shower, fridge, =
kitchen area).&nbsp; All in, full of water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,5=
00 lbs.&nbsp; I load the trailer so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue wei=
ght, which is technically a little over the payload limit of the truck, but=
 not too bad.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , '=
sans-serif'"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-15=
0, with a max tow package putting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 t=
win turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 ft lb torque. &nbsp;I use a good weig=
ht-distributing hitch and a sway control strut. &nbsp;And I added Air Lift =
air suspension to help with the extra load. &nbsp;Generally speaking, the F=
-150 has been doing just fine.&nbsp; But when it=E2=80=99s windy the traile=
r gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to set off the truck=
=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big baby=E2=80=A6).=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'">=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'century got=
hic' , 'sans-serif'">So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether movin=
g up to an F-250 super duty would make an appreciable difference in the tow=
ing performance.&nbsp; An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, =
depending on specs of both trucks.&nbsp; Is that enough to make a noticeabl=
e difference?&nbsp; Are there other factors that would make it that much be=
tter than an F-150?</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibr=
i' , 'sans-serif'"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 an=
d 10-speed trans makes for a nice street car, with reasonable mileage (abou=
t 19 average) =E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s what I drive all winter.&nbsp; The=
 F-250 Super Duty will get considerably crappier mileage and will be a less=
 friendly daily driver (I assume).&nbsp; Not to mention that my F-150 is pr=
etty close to paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another boatload of deb=
t to move up to the F-250.&nbsp; Which is all to say that the towing perfor=
mance improvement would need to be considerable before I would make the mov=
e.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-=
serif'"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10pt;font-family:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'cen=
tury gothic' , 'sans-serif'">What say you, towing brain trust?&nbsp; Is it =
worth the move?</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' ,=
 'sans-serif'"></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fami=
ly:'century gothic' , 'sans-serif'">Scott (B.)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , 'sans-serif'"></span></p></div></div></div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'timesnewr=
omanpsmt' , 'serif'">_______________________________________________<br></s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow=
 noopener noreferrer"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'timesnewro=
manpsmt' , 'serif'">[email-masked]</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt;font-family:'timesnewromanpsmt' , 'serif'"><br><br></span><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.fot-racing.com/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener norefe=
rrer"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:'timesnewromanpsmt' , 'seri=
f'">http://www.fot-racing.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-=
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___<br>[email-masked]<br><br>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><br>Donate: h=
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From: "Barr, Scott via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 13:47:42 +0000

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From: Mark J Bradakis via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 08:07:53 -0600

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Gee, on the one hand I wish I had to worry about towing a 20+ foot 
enclosed trailer, but all I have is a little single axle tilt trailer 
that fits a Spitfire just fine.  And still clinging to the idea that 
I'll get back into racing RealSoonNow I just upgraded my tow vehicle to 
a 2008 Nissan Pathfinder, 6,000 lbs capacity.  More than ample to my 
meager needs.  But back in the IVR days I had an E350 extended van that 
could probably tow a small town to the next county without breaking a 
sweat.  What a beast!

mjb.

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From: Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 09:43:46 -0500

--===============2487123329900744300==

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I bought an F250!  I mentioned that I had a couple of GMC 2500HD's and
recently switched to an F250.  I may be mis-informed or possibly they have
changed the recipe on newer models, but the GM 2500 and 3500 HD's were
virtually identical in every way other than rear axle ratios. I opted for
the 3.73 in the 2500 versus the 4.10 in the 3500 because the 3.73 works
just fine with 10,000 lbs and I lived under the illusion that I would get
better gas mileage.

This time around my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research Fords versus
GM to find out if they did it the same way, but Bill's question got me to
thinking about it. I found this short article which explains the Fords and
there are minor differences between the F250 and F350's as listed below.

In my comparison of the 2500HD's to the current F250, I find the Ford is
less harsh over bumps and wavy pavement making my aging bones happier. I
suppose that an F350 would be harsher.

F250 vs F350: Engine and Transmission

Both the F250 and the F350 are available with gas or diesel engines. Most
are equipped with the diesel because it is more economical and hauls/tows
better. Both the F250 and F350 are also available with both an automatic,
and manual transmission. So what=E2=80=99s the drivetrain difference? There=
 isn=E2=80=99t
one. *The F250 and F350 share the exact same drivetrain.*
F250 vs F350: Axles

Depending on which year you Super Duty you=E2=80=99re looking at, the front=
 axle
may be a Dana 50 or Dana 60. Older F250s and F350s use the Dana 50, which
is an excellent axle. Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana 60 which is
slightly beefier than the Dana 50. All years of the SRW (Single Rear Wheel)
F250 and F350 use the Ford/Sterling 10.75. The F350 gets a slightly larger
center section, otherwise, it=E2=80=99s the same as the F250=E2=80=99s rear=
 axle. All years
of the dually receive the Dana 80.
*Basically the only difference is the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger center sect=
ion.*You
can read more about this in our Dana 44 vs Dana 60
<https://dustrunnersauto.com/dana-44-vs-dana-60/> article.
F250 vs F350: Suspension

All years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty springs and
standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overload
springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but it=E2=80=
=99s such a
small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=99t notice on the road. The F350=
 has
stiffer springs up front as standard, the F250 has those same springs as an
option. Something that surprised me is that both of these trucks come with
factory blocks in the rear. The F250 is equipped with a 2.5=E2=80=B3 block,=
 which
lifts the rear up to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes
factory with a 4=E2=80=B3 rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 giv=
es it a
slightly higher tow rating.

To put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=B3=
 block
compared to the F250=E2=80=99s 3.5=E2=80=B3 block.
F250 vs F350: Which One is Better?

Something I didn=E2=80=99t mention above is the fact that some states will =
consider
the F350 to be a commercial vehicle. This will make your insurance and
registration costs go up. If you live in a state where that is not the
case, I would say get an F350. The slightly stiffer springs will make
towing a little bit nicer. Prices for both the F250 and F350 are nearly
identical, so there=E2=80=99s really no reason not to go with the F350.
Bob Kramer

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 7:49 PM Ponostyle via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost difference fo=
r an F350 is trivial,
> especially if you buy one off the lot instead of ordering. I tow my
> Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the second F350 I=E2=80=99ve=
 owned. My first
> one developed a serious oil leak that would have required removing the ca=
b
> ?!!? to fix. I gather that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in=
 to world,
> but all this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in
> and got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry=
)
> and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But it=E2=
=80=99s a MUCH
> better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for shit. It=E2=80=99s a twi=
n cab with an
> eight foot bed. So long, as in REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=
=99. Hook it up to
> Fritz, my 34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid c=
ity block.
>
> But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me i=
n
> parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a Diese=
l. Without the
> trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I get 16 if there aren=
=E2=80=99t
> a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot off the accelerator, or better ye=
t,
> put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and you=E2=80=99re gold.
>
> My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck.
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.  Heck, we've killed
> two trailers in that time.  It'll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 a=
s
> long as we dont have any more races cancelled.  It has a swaybar hitch th=
at
> helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a upset and
> require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the whites.
>
> It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and
> alternators.  I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of our
> crew cab model.
>
> Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban.  An uphill departure from a fuel or
> lunch stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few seconds=
.
> The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it does.
>
> I recall asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I
> should consider a dually.  His reply was that I should only buy such a
> thing if I liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel
> trailer.  Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with
> broken glass rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite wi=
de
> enough.
>
> Just my experience.
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Barr, Scott via Fot"
> Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 PM
> To: Amici Triumphi
> Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings
>
> Hi all,
>
> I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few yea=
rs now.
> It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back and 10=
 feet of RV in the front
> (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area).  All in, full of water, car loade=
d,
> it weighs about 9,500 lbs.  I load the trailer so I have about 1,750 poun=
ds
> of tongue weight, which is technically a little over the payload limit of
> the truck, but not too bad.
>
> I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package puttin=
g towing
> capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 f=
t
> lb torque.  I use a good weight-distributing hitch and a sway control
> strut.  And I added Air Lift air suspension to help with the extra load.
> Generally speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine.  But when it=E2=
=80=99s
> windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to s=
et
> off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big =
baby=E2=80=A6).
>
> So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 su=
per duty
> would make an appreciable difference in the towing performance.  An F-250
> is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, depending on specs of both
> trucks.  Is that enough to make a noticeable difference?  Are there other
> factors that would make it that much better than an F-150?
>
> The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice
> street car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 average) =E2=80=93 and it=
=E2=80=99s what I
> drive all winter.  The F-250 Super Duty will get considerably crappier
> mileage and will be a less friendly daily driver (I assume).  Not to
> mention that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taki=
ng on
> another boatload of debt to move up to the F-250.  Which is all to say th=
at
> the towing performance improvement would need to be considerable before I
> would make the move.
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--000000000000649c8805b0103c43
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I bought an F250!=C2=A0 I mentioned that I had a coup=
le of GMC 2500HD&#39;s and recently switched to an F250.=C2=A0 I may be mis=
-informed or possibly they have changed the recipe on newer models, but the=
 GM 2500 and 3500 HD&#39;s were virtually identical in every way other than=
 rear axle ratios. I opted for the 3.73 in the 2500 versus the 4.10 in the =
3500 because the 3.73 works just fine with 10,000 lbs and I lived under the=
 illusion that I would get better gas mileage.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br>This time=
 around my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research Fords=C2=A0versus GM =
to find out if they did it the same way, but Bill&#39;s question=C2=A0got m=
e to thinking about it. I found this short article which explains the Fords=
 and there=C2=A0are minor differences between the F250 and F350&#39;s as li=
sted below.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>In my comparison of the 25=
00HD&#39;s to the current F250, I find the Ford is less harsh over bumps an=
d wavy pavement making my aging bones happier. I suppose that an F350 would=
 be harsher.<span style=3D"font-weight:normal"><font size=3D"2"><br></font>=
</span></div><div><br></div><h2 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px=
;border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;fo=
nt-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.5rem;line-height:1.3;font-family:&quot;open =
sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)">F250 vs F350: Engine and Transmission</h2><p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1=
.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-eas=
t-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:14px;line-height:inherit;fon=
t-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:ba=
seline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Both the F250 and the F350 are available with gas =
or diesel engines. Most are equipped with the diesel because it is more eco=
nomical and hauls/tows better. Both the F250 and F350 are also available wi=
th both an automatic, and manual transmission. So what=E2=80=99s the drivet=
rain difference? There isn=E2=80=99t one.=C2=A0<em style=3D"margin:0px;padd=
ing:0px;border:0px;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:in=
herit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-al=
ign:baseline">The F250 and F350 share the exact same drivetrain.</em></p><h=
2 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant-numer=
ic:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1=
.5rem;line-height:1.3;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,san=
s-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">F250 vs F350: Axles</h2><=
p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant-numer=
ic:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1=
4px;line-height:inherit;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,s=
ans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Depending on which year=
 you Super Duty you=E2=80=99re looking at, the front axle may be a Dana 50 =
or Dana 60. Older F250s and F350s use the Dana 50, which is an excellent ax=
le. Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana 60 which is slightly beefier than th=
e Dana 50. All years of the SRW (Single Rear Wheel) F250 and F350 use the F=
ord/Sterling 10.75. The F350 gets a slightly larger center section, otherwi=
se, it=E2=80=99s the same as the F250=E2=80=99s rear axle. All years of the=
 dually receive the Dana 80.=C2=A0<em style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;borde=
r:0px;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-si=
ze:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"=
>Basically the only difference is the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger center sect=
ion.<br></em>You can read more about this in our=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://du=
strunnersauto.com/dana-44-vs-dana-60/" style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;bord=
er:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:600;font-stretch=
:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical=
-align:baseline;color:rgb(230,73,70);text-decoration-line:none">Dana 44 vs =
Dana 60</a>=C2=A0article.</p><h2 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0p=
x;border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;f=
ont-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.5rem;line-height:1.3;font-family:&quot;open=
 sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,=
0,0)">F250 vs F350: Suspension</h2><p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;paddi=
ng:0px;border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inhe=
rit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:14px;line-height:inherit;font-family:&qu=
ot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">All years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty s=
prings and standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overl=
oad springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but it=
=E2=80=99s such a small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=99t notice on =
the road. The F350 has stiffer springs up front as standard, the F250 has t=
hose same springs as an option. Something that surprised me is that both of=
 these trucks come with factory blocks in the rear. The F250 is equipped wi=
th a 2.5=E2=80=B3 block, which lifts the rear up to help the truck sit leve=
l whilst towing. The F350 comes factory with a 4=E2=80=B3 rear block. The b=
igger rear block on the F350 gives it a slightly higher tow rating.</p><p s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant-numeric:=
inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:14px=
;line-height:inherit;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans=
-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">To put it simply, the F350=
 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=B3 block compared to the F25=
0=E2=80=99s 3.5=E2=80=B3 block.</p><h2 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padd=
ing:0px;border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inh=
erit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.5rem;line-height:1.3;font-family:&quo=
t;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:=
rgb(0,0,0)">F250 vs F350: Which One is Better?</h2><p style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant=
-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:14px;line-height:inherit=
;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Something I didn=E2=80=99t mention above is th=
e fact that some states will consider the F350 to be a commercial vehicle. =
This will make your insurance and registration costs go up. If you live in =
a state where that is not the case, I would say get an F350. The slightly s=
tiffer springs will make towing a little bit nicer. Prices for both the F25=
0 and F350 are nearly identical, so there=E2=80=99s really no reason not to=
 go with the F350.</p><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-=
smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Kramer</div></div></div>=
<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 7:49 PM Ponostyle via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-w=
ord;">I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost differenc=
e for an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot instead of =
ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the second =
F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious oil leak that wou=
ld have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather that removing the c=
ab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all this happened when I nee=
ded my truck in a week, so I traded it in and got a 2018 F350. The new one =
came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) and didn=E2=80=99t have all the f=
ancy shit my previous one had. But it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, though=
 I can=E2=80=99t park it for shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight fo=
ot bed. So long, as in REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook =
it up to Fritz, my 34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a =
solid city block.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>But the diesel engine is so quie=
t that people step right in front of me in parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=
=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg=
 on freeways. With the trailer I get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hi=
lls to climb. Keep your foot off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in =
cruise at 65=E2=80=94and you=E2=80=99re gold.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><di=
v>My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><=
div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mi=
ke Jackson via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spac=
ing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space=
:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-size:16px;font-family:ar=
ial,sans-serif">I realize everyone has their own preferred answer.=C2=A0 Th=
at said:<div style=3D"margin:0px">I&#39;ve had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel si=
nce it was new.=C2=A0 Heck, we&#39;ve killed two trailers in that time.=C2=
=A0 It&#39;ll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 as long as we dont have=
 any more races cancelled.=C2=A0 It has a swaybar hitch that helps but an 1=
8 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a upset and require a bit of op=
posite lock to keep it between the whites.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">It&#39;s been quite reliable with the ex=
ception of AC systems and alternators.=C2=A0 I now travel with a spare alt =
behind the rear seat of our crew cab model.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban.=C2=
=A0 An uphill departure from a fuel or lunch stop made a lot of noise but v=
ery little movement for a few seconds.=C2=A0 The F350 diesel is like a mule=
, say &quot;go&quot; and it does.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">And yes, it&#39;s my around town daily driver.</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">I recall a=
sking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I should consider=
 a dually.=C2=A0 His reply was that I should only buy such a thing if I lik=
ed buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel trailer.=C2=A0 Short=
ly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with broken glass rear fe=
nders from trying to turn in places just not quite wide enough.</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Just my experience.=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Mike=C2=A0<br><br><blockquote style=3D"padd=
ing-left:5px;margin-left:0px;border-left:2px solid rgb(0,0,255);font-weight=
:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-size:10pt;font-family:a=
rial,sans-serif">-----Original Message-----<span>=C2=A0</span><br>From: &qu=
ot;Barr, Scott via Fot&quot;<span>=C2=A0</span><u></u><br>Sent: Sep 23, 202=
0 1:31 PM<span>=C2=A0</span><br>To: Amici Triumphi<span>=C2=A0</span><u></u=
><br>Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings<span>=C2=A0</span><br><br><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothi=
c&quot;,sans-serif">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&=
quot;,sans-serif">I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trail=
er for a few years now.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=
=9D space in the back and 10 feet of RV in the front (toilet, shower, fridg=
e, kitchen area).=C2=A0 All in, full of water, car loaded, it weighs about =
9,500 lbs.=C2=A0 I load the trailer so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue =
weight, which is technically a little over the payload limit of the truck, =
but not too bad.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-=
serif">I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package p=
utting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with 375=
hp and 470 ft lb torque.=C2=A0 I use a good weight-distributing hitch and a=
 sway control strut.=C2=A0 And I added Air Lift air suspension to help with=
 the extra load.=C2=A0 Generally speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fi=
ne.=C2=A0 But when it=E2=80=99s windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy,=
 wagging enough sometimes to set off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic trailer =
sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big baby=E2=80=A6).<u></u><u></u></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determi=
ne whether moving up to an F-250 super duty would make an appreciable diffe=
rence in the towing performance.=C2=A0 An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier=
 than my F-150, depending on specs of both trucks.=C2=A0 Is that enough to =
make a noticeable difference?=C2=A0 Are there other factors that would make=
 it that much better than an F-150?<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D=
"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century=
 Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed tra=
ns makes for a nice street car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 average) =
=E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s what I drive all winter.=C2=A0 The F-250 Super D=
uty will get considerably crappier mileage and will be a less friendly dail=
y driver (I assume).=C2=A0 Not to mention that my F-150 is pretty close to =
paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another boatload of debt to move up t=
o the F-250.=C2=A0 Which is all to say that the towing performance improvem=
ent would need to be considerable before I would make the move.=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century G=
othic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">What say you, t=
owing brain trust?=C2=A0 Is it worth the move?<u></u><u></u></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">Scott (B.)<u></u><u></u></span></div><=
/div><u></u><u></u></blockquote></div></div><span style=3D"font-family:Time=
sNewRomanPSMT;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fon=
t-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text=
-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;fl=
oat:none;display:inline">_______________________________________________</s=
pan><br style=3D"font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT;font-size:18px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text=
-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-sp=
acing:0px;text-decoration:none"><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=
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iant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;=
text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" ta=
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rm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style=
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t-decoration:none"><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/" style=3D"font-fam=
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rmal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:=
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nk">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br style=3D"font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT=
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e:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;=
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---

From: robert bownes via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 11:27:12 -0400

--===============2810338942334061778==

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Interesting discussion as I'm about to put my Avalanche 1500 on the market.

The 1500 Av suited my 16' enclosed trailer well, but the 24' was a bit of a
load. I've downsized the racing effort, gotten rid of the 24', am looking
for a newish 16'x7 to go with my new tow vehicle.

I don't haul big loads like I used to, so something smallish that suits a
<10,000 load and still gets ~20mpg about town, and is suitable for a long
cruise was warranted. Recently just such a vehicle appeared on the radar,
the wife needed new wheels, so we added a multi-purpose vehicle to the
fleet. And you know it tows pretty darn well. I used it to move ~6,000 lbs
of trailer and bridgeport mill after I tore out my Achilles a couple of
weeks ago and it just didn't care. I expect the FV or a Spit/GT6 in the
smaller enclosed trailer will be similar. So, as soon as I can get a
Triumph race car together, I'm hoping you all can make space in the FOT
paddock for us even if the tow vehicle is:

A Porsche. :)

2010 Cayanne with the tow package. There is nothing quite like backing up
to the trailer and hitting the 'raise' button on the suspension settings
and having the ball lift up into the receiver.

Bob

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:48 AM Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> recently switched to an F250.  I may be mis-informed or possibly they hav=
e
> This time around my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research
> Fords versus GM to find out if they did it the same way, but Bill's
> question got me to thinking about it. I found this short article which
> explains the Fords and there are minor differences between the F250 and
> F350's as listed below.
>
> and manual transmission. So what=E2=80=99s the drivetrain difference? The=
re isn=E2=80=99t
> Depending on which year you Super Duty you=E2=80=99re looking at, the fro=
nt axle
> slightly beefier than the Dana 50. All years of the SRW (Single Rear Whee=
l)
> F250 and F350 use the Ford/Sterling 10.75. The F350 gets a slightly large=
r
> center section, otherwise, it=E2=80=99s the same as the F250=E2=80=99s re=
ar axle. All years
> *Basically the only difference is the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger center se=
ction.*You
> springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but it=E2=
=80=99s such a
> small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=99t notice on the road. The F3=
50 has
> stiffer springs up front as standard, the F250 has those same springs as =
an
> option. Something that surprised me is that both of these trucks come wit=
h
> factory blocks in the rear. The F250 is equipped with a 2.5=E2=80=B3 bloc=
k, which
> lifts the rear up to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 com=
es
> factory with a 4=E2=80=B3 rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 g=
ives it a
> To put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=
=B3 block
> Something I didn=E2=80=99t mention above is the fact that some states wil=
l
> consider the F350 to be a commercial vehicle. This will make your insuran=
ce
> and registration costs go up. If you live in a state where that is not th=
e
>> I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost difference f=
or an F350 is trivial,
>> Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the second F350 I=E2=80=99v=
e owned. My first
>> one developed a serious oil leak that would have required removing the c=
ab
>> ?!!? to fix. I gather that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job i=
n to world,
>> but all this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it i=
n
>> and got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurr=
y)
>> and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But it=
=E2=80=99s a MUCH
>> better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for shit. It=E2=80=99s a tw=
in cab with an
>> eight foot bed. So long, as in REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=
=80=99. Hook it up to
>> Fritz, my 34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid =
city block.
>>
>> But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me
>> in parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a D=
iesel. Without the
=E2=80=99t
>> a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot off the accelerator, or better y=
et,
>> two trailers in that time.  It'll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 =
as
>> long as we dont have any more races cancelled.  It has a swaybar hitch t=
hat
>> lunch stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few second=
s.
>> broken glass rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite w=
ide
>> I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few ye=
ars now.
>> It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back and 1=
0 feet of RV in the front
>> (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area).  All in, full of water, car load=
ed,
>> it weighs about 9,500 lbs.  I load the trailer so I have about 1,750 pou=
nds
>> of tongue weight, which is technically a little over the payload limit o=
f
>> I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package putti=
ng towing
>> capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 =
ft
=80=99s
>> windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to =
set
>> off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big=
 baby=E2=80=A6).
>>
>> So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 s=
uper duty
>> would make an appreciable difference in the towing performance.  An F-25=
0
>> trucks.  Is that enough to make a noticeable difference?  Are there othe=
r
=E2=80=99s what I
>> mention that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off and I=E2=80=99d be tak=
ing on
>> another boatload of debt to move up to the F-250.  Which is all to say t=
hat
>> the towing performance improvement would need to be considerable before =
I
>> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>=
:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Interesting discussion as I&#39;m about to put my Ava=
lanche 1500 on the market. <br></div><div><br></div><div>The 1500 Av suited=
 my 16&#39; enclosed trailer well, but the 24&#39; was a bit of a load. I&#=
39;ve downsized the racing effort, gotten rid of the 24&#39;, am looking fo=
r a newish 16&#39;x7 to go with my new tow vehicle. <br></div><div><br></di=
v><div>I don&#39;t haul big loads like I used to, so something smallish tha=
t suits a &lt;10,000 load and still gets ~20mpg about town, and is suitable=
 for a long cruise was warranted. Recently just such a vehicle appeared on =
the radar, the wife needed new wheels, so we added a multi-purpose vehicle =
to the fleet. And you know it tows pretty darn well. I used it to move ~6,0=
00 lbs of trailer and bridgeport mill after I tore out my Achilles a couple=
 of weeks ago and it just didn&#39;t care. I expect the FV or a Spit/GT6 in=
 the smaller enclosed trailer will be similar. So, as soon as I can get a T=
riumph race car together, I&#39;m hoping you all can make space in the FOT =
paddock for us even if the tow vehicle is:</div><div><br></div><div>A Porsc=
he. :)</div><div><br></div><div>2010 Cayanne with the tow package. There is=
 nothing quite like backing up to the trailer and hitting the &#39;raise&#3=
9; button on the suspension settings and having the ball lift up into the r=
eceiver. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Bob</div><div><br></div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep =
24, 2020 at 10:48 AM Bob Kramer via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I bought an F250!=C2=A0 I me=
ntioned that I had a couple of GMC 2500HD&#39;s and recently switched to an=
 F250.=C2=A0 I may be mis-informed or possibly they have changed the recipe=
 on newer models, but the GM 2500 and 3500 HD&#39;s were virtually identica=
l in every way other than rear axle ratios. I opted for the 3.73 in the 250=
0 versus the 4.10 in the 3500 because the 3.73 works just fine with 10,000 =
lbs and I lived under the illusion that I would get better gas mileage.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0<br><br>This time around my wife wanted the F250 so I did not rese=
arch Fords=C2=A0versus GM to find out if they did it the same way, but Bill=
&#39;s question=C2=A0got me to thinking about it. I found this short articl=
e which explains the Fords and there=C2=A0are minor differences between the=
 F250 and F350&#39;s as listed below.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=
In my comparison of the 2500HD&#39;s to the current F250, I find the Ford i=
s less harsh over bumps and wavy pavement making my aging bones happier. I =
suppose that an F350 would be harsher.<span style=3D"font-weight:normal"><f=
ont size=3D"2"><br></font></span></div><div><br></div><h2 style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-variant-numeric:inherit;fon=
t-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.5rem;line-hei=
ght:1.3;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertic=
al-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">F250 vs F350: Engine and Transmission</=
h2><p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-vari=
ant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;fo=
nt-size:14px;line-height:inherit;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetic=
a,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Both the F250 =
and the F350 are available with gas or diesel engines. Most are equipped wi=
th the diesel because it is more economical and hauls/tows better. Both the=
 F250 and F350 are also available with both an automatic, and manual transm=
ission. So what=E2=80=99s the drivetrain difference? There isn=E2=80=99t on=
e.=C2=A0<em style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-variant:in=
herit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-heigh=
t:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">The F250 and F350 sh=
are the exact same drivetrain.</em></p><h2 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;=
padding:0px;border:0px none;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-=
asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.5rem;line-height:1.3;font-fa=
mily:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseli=
ne;color:rgb(0,0,0)">F250 vs F350: Axles</h2><p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.2=
5rem;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-=
east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:14px;line-height:inherit;=
font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align=
:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Depending on which year you Super Duty you=E2=
=80=99re looking at, the front axle may be a Dana 50 or Dana 60. Older F250=
s and F350s use the Dana 50, which is an excellent axle. Newer F250s and F3=
50s use the Dana 60 which is slightly beefier than the Dana 50. All years o=
f the SRW (Single Rear Wheel) F250 and F350 use the Ford/Sterling 10.75. Th=
e F350 gets a slightly larger center section, otherwise, it=E2=80=99s the s=
ame as the F250=E2=80=99s rear axle. All years of the dually receive the Da=
na 80.=C2=A0<em style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-varian=
t:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-h=
eight:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">Basically the on=
ly difference is the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger center section.<br></em>You =
can read more about this in our=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://dustrunnersauto.com=
/dana-44-vs-dana-60/" style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-=
style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:600;font-stretch:inherit;fon=
t-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:basel=
ine;color:rgb(230,73,70);text-decoration-line:none" target=3D"_blank">Dana =
44 vs Dana 60</a>=C2=A0article.</p><h2 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padd=
ing:0px;border:0px none;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asia=
n:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.5rem;line-height:1.3;font-family=
:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0)">F250 vs F350: Suspension</h2><p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.=
25rem;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant=
-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:14px;line-height:inherit=
;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">All years of Super Duty trucks are available w=
ith heavy duty springs and standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 hav=
e optional overload springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly s=
tiffer, but it=E2=80=99s such a small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=
=99t notice on the road. The F350 has stiffer springs up front as standard,=
 the F250 has those same springs as an option. Something that surprised me =
is that both of these trucks come with factory blocks in the rear. The F250=
 is equipped with a 2.5=E2=80=B3 block, which lifts the rear up to help the=
 truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes factory with a 4=E2=80=B3 re=
ar block. The bigger rear block on the F350 gives it a slightly higher tow =
rating.</p><p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px none;f=
ont-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:in=
herit;font-size:14px;line-height:inherit;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,=
Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">To put=
 it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=B3 block=
 compared to the F250=E2=80=99s 3.5=E2=80=B3 block.</p><h2 style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-variant-numeric:inherit;fo=
nt-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.5rem;line-he=
ight:1.3;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;verti=
cal-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">F250 vs F350: Which One is Better?</h2=
><p style=3D"margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-varian=
t-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font=
-size:14px;line-height:inherit;font-family:&quot;open sans&quot;,Helvetica,=
Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Something I didn=
=E2=80=99t mention above is the fact that some states will consider the F35=
0 to be a commercial vehicle. This will make your insurance and registratio=
n costs go up. If you live in a state where that is not the case, I would s=
ay get an F350. The slightly stiffer springs will make towing a little bit =
nicer. Prices for both the F250 and F350 are nearly identical, so there=E2=
=80=99s really no reason not to go with the F350.</p><div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Kramer</div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 7:=
49 PM Ponostyle via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=
=80=9Ds?? The cost difference for an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy=
 one off the lot instead of ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mi=
ne, it=E2=80=99s the second F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed=
 a serious oil leak that would have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. =
I gather that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but =
all this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in and g=
ot a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) and d=
idn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But it=E2=80=99s=
 a MUCH better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for shit. It=E2=80=99s=
 a twin cab with an eight foot bed. So long, as in REALLY long. I think it=
=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up to Fritz, my 34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyot=
e Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid city block.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>But=
 the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me in par=
king lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a Diesel. Wi=
thout the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I get 16 if the=
re aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot off the accelerat=
or, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and you=E2=80=99re gold.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruc=
k.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>O=
n Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><b=
r><div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;=
font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t=
ext-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none=
;font-size:16px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">I realize everyone has their =
own preferred answer.=C2=A0 That said:<div style=3D"margin:0px">I&#39;ve ha=
d our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.=C2=A0 Heck, we&#39;ve killed =
two trailers in that time.=C2=A0 It&#39;ll hit 400K miles before the end of=
 2020 as long as we dont have any more races cancelled.=C2=A0 It has a sway=
bar hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a =
upset and require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the whites.</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">It&#39;s be=
en quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and alternators.=C2=A0 I=
 now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of our crew cab model.</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Previous t=
ow vehicle was a Suburban.=C2=A0 An uphill departure from a fuel or lunch s=
top made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few seconds.=C2=A0 T=
he F350 diesel is like a mule, say &quot;go&quot; and it does.</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">And yes, it&#39;s my=
 around town daily driver.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">I recall asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the=
 factory if I should consider a dually.=C2=A0 His reply was that I should o=
nly buy such a thing if I liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5=
th wheel trailer.=C2=A0 Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duall=
ies with broken glass rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not q=
uite wide enough.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">Just my experience.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Mike=C2=A0<br>=
<br><blockquote style=3D"padding-left:5px;margin-left:0px;border-left:2px s=
olid rgb(0,0,255);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none=
;font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif">-----Original Message-----<sp=
an>=C2=A0</span><br>From: &quot;Barr, Scott via Fot&quot;<span>=C2=A0</span=
><u></u><br>Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 PM<span>=C2=A0</span><br>To: Amici Triu=
mphi<span>=C2=A0</span><u></u><br>Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings<span>=
=C2=A0</span><br><br><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0in;fon=
t-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-s=
erif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,=
sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-=
size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">I=E2=80=99ve been towing a =
24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few years now.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s 14=
 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back and 10 feet of RV in th=
e front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area).=C2=A0 All in, full of water=
, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs.=C2=A0 I load the trailer so I have=
 about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is technically a little over th=
e payload limit of the truck, but not too bad.<u></u><u></u></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F=
-150, with a max tow package putting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V=
6 twin turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 ft lb torque.=C2=A0 I use a good w=
eight-distributing hitch and a sway control strut.=C2=A0 And I added Air Li=
ft air suspension to help with the extra load.=C2=A0 Generally speaking, th=
e F-150 has been doing just fine.=C2=A0 But when it=E2=80=99s windy the tra=
iler gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to set off the truc=
k=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big baby=E2=80=A6)=
.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Ce=
ntury Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">So I=
=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 super du=
ty would make an appreciable difference in the towing performance.=C2=A0 An=
 F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, depending on specs of bot=
h trucks.=C2=A0 Is that enough to make a noticeable difference?=C2=A0 Are t=
here other factors that would make it that much better than an F-150?<u></u=
libri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century G=
othic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">The F-150 with =
the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice street car, with reas=
onable mileage (about 19 average) =E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s what I drive a=
ll winter.=C2=A0 The F-250 Super Duty will get considerably crappier mileag=
e and will be a less friendly daily driver (I assume).=C2=A0 Not to mention=
 that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taking on ano=
ther boatload of debt to move up to the F-250.=C2=A0 Which is all to say th=
at the towing performance improvement would need to be considerable before =
I would make the move.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin=
:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic=
&quot;,sans-serif">What say you, towing brain trust?=C2=A0 Is it worth the =
move?<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Century Gothic&quot;,sans-serif">Scot=
t (B.)<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><u></u><u></u></blockquote></div></d=
iv><span style=3D"font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT;font-size:18px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">________________=
_______________________________</span><br style=3D"font-family:TimesNewRoma=
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From: Bill Babcock via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 08:35:51 -0700

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	boundary="Apple-Mail=_54379FED-057D-4C76-9FB5-94C48A8CBF17"

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A friend of mine sold her Tesla model S and bought a 2020 Cayanne Hybrid =
explicitly to tow a horse trailer. Sounded nuts to me until I read the =
specs. It=E2=80=99s actually well suited to her use.=20

> On Sep 24, 2020, at 8:27 AM, robert bownes <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Interesting discussion as I'm about to put my Avalanche 1500 on the =
market.=20
>=20
> The 1500 Av suited my 16' enclosed trailer well, but the 24' was a bit =
of a load. I've downsized the racing effort, gotten rid of the 24', am =
looking for a newish 16'x7 to go with my new tow vehicle.=20
>=20
> I don't haul big loads like I used to, so something smallish that =
suits a <10,000 load and still gets ~20mpg about town, and is suitable =
for a long cruise was warranted. Recently just such a vehicle appeared =
on the radar, the wife needed new wheels, so we added a multi-purpose =
vehicle to the fleet. And you know it tows pretty darn well. I used it =
to move ~6,000 lbs of trailer and bridgeport mill after I tore out my =
Achilles a couple of weeks ago and it just didn't care. I expect the FV =
or a Spit/GT6 in the smaller enclosed trailer will be similar. So, as =
soon as I can get a Triumph race car together, I'm hoping you all can =
make space in the FOT paddock for us even if the tow vehicle is:
>=20
> A Porsche. :)
>=20
> 2010 Cayanne with the tow package. There is nothing quite like backing =
up to the trailer and hitting the 'raise' button on the suspension =
settings and having the ball lift up into the receiver.=20
>=20
> Bob
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:48 AM Bob Kramer via Fot =
> I bought an F250!  I mentioned that I had a couple of GMC 2500HD's and =
recently switched to an F250.  I may be mis-informed or possibly they =
have changed the recipe on newer models, but the GM 2500 and 3500 HD's =
were virtually identical in every way other than rear axle ratios. I =
opted for the 3.73 in the 2500 versus the 4.10 in the 3500 because the =
3.73 works just fine with 10,000 lbs and I lived under the illusion that =
I would get better gas mileage. =20
>=20
> This time around my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research Fords =
versus GM to find out if they did it the same way, but Bill's question =
got me to thinking about it. I found this short article which explains =
the Fords and there are minor differences between the F250 and F350's as =
listed below. =20
>=20
> In my comparison of the 2500HD's to the current F250, I find the Ford =
is less harsh over bumps and wavy pavement making my aging bones =
happier. I suppose that an F350 would be harsher.
> Both the F250 and the F350 are available with gas or diesel engines. =
Most are equipped with the diesel because it is more economical and =
hauls/tows better. Both the F250 and F350 are also available with both =
an automatic, and manual transmission. So what=E2=80=99s the drivetrain =
difference? There isn=E2=80=99t one. The F250 and F350 share the exact =
same drivetrain.
>=20
> F250 vs F350: Axles
>=20
> Depending on which year you Super Duty you=E2=80=99re looking at, the =
front axle may be a Dana 50 or Dana 60. Older F250s and F350s use the =
Dana 50, which is an excellent axle. Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana =
60 which is slightly beefier than the Dana 50. All years of the SRW =
(Single Rear Wheel) F250 and F350 use the Ford/Sterling 10.75. The F350 =
gets a slightly larger center section, otherwise, it=E2=80=99s the same =
as the F250=E2=80=99s rear axle. All years of the dually receive the =
Dana 80. Basically the only difference is the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger =
center section.
> You can read more about this in our Dana 44 vs Dana 60 =
>=20
> F250 vs F350: Suspension
>=20
> All years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty springs =
and standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overload =
springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but =
it=E2=80=99s such a small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=99t =
notice on the road. The F350 has stiffer springs up front as standard, =
the F250 has those same springs as an option. Something that surprised =
me is that both of these trucks come with factory blocks in the rear. =
The F250 is equipped with a 2.5=E2=80=B3 block, which lifts the rear up =
to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes factory with a =
4=E2=80=B3 rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 gives it a =
slightly higher tow rating.
> To put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=
=B3 block compared to the F250=E2=80=99s 3.5=E2=80=B3 block.
> Something I didn=E2=80=99t mention above is the fact that some states =
will consider the F350 to be a commercial vehicle. This will make your =
insurance and registration costs go up. If you live in a state where =
that is not the case, I would say get an F350. The slightly stiffer =
springs will make towing a little bit nicer. Prices for both the F250 =
and F350 are nearly identical, so there=E2=80=99s really no reason not =
to go with the F350.
>=20
> Bob Kramer
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 7:49 PM Ponostyle via Fot <[email-masked] =
>=20
> But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of =
me in parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for =
a Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer =
I get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot =
off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and =
you=E2=80=99re gold.=20
>> On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot <[email-masked] =
>>=20
>> =20
>> So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an =
F-250 super duty would make an appreciable difference in the towing =
performance.  An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, =
depending on specs of both trucks.  Is that enough to make a noticeable =
difference?  Are there other factors that would make it that much better =
than an F-150?
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive =
<http://autox.team.net/archive> http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot>
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive> =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]>
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive> =
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">A =
friend of mine sold her Tesla model S and bought a 2020 Cayanne Hybrid =
explicitly to tow a horse trailer. Sounded nuts to me until I read the =
specs. It=E2=80=99s actually well suited to her use.&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Sep 24, 2020, at 8:27 AM, robert bownes &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Interesting =
discussion as I'm about to put my Avalanche 1500 on the market.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The 1500 Av suited my =
16' enclosed trailer well, but the 24' was a bit of a load. I've =
downsized the racing effort, gotten rid of the 24', am looking for a =
newish 16'x7 to go with my new tow vehicle.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I don't haul big loads =
like I used to, so something smallish that suits a &lt;10,000 load and =
still gets ~20mpg about town, and is suitable for a long cruise was =
warranted. Recently just such a vehicle appeared on the radar, the wife =
needed new wheels, so we added a multi-purpose vehicle to the fleet. And =
you know it tows pretty darn well. I used it to move ~6,000 lbs of =
trailer and bridgeport mill after I tore out my Achilles a couple of =
weeks ago and it just didn't care. I expect the FV or a Spit/GT6 in the =
smaller enclosed trailer will be similar. So, as soon as I can get a =
Triumph race car together, I'm hoping you all can make space in the FOT =
paddock for us even if the tow vehicle is:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A Porsche. :)</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2010 Cayanne with the tow package. =
There is nothing quite like backing up to the trailer and hitting the =
'raise' button on the suspension settings and having the ball lift up =
into the receiver.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Bob</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:48 AM Bob Kramer via Fot =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"">I bought an F250!&nbsp; I =
mentioned that I had a couple of GMC 2500HD's and recently switched to =
an F250.&nbsp; I may be mis-informed or possibly they have changed the =
recipe on newer models, but the GM 2500 and 3500 HD's were virtually =
identical in every way other than rear axle ratios. I opted for the 3.73 =
in the 2500 versus the 4.10 in the 3500 because the 3.73 works just fine =
with 10,000 lbs and I lived under the illusion that I would get better =
gas mileage.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This time around =
my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research Fords&nbsp;versus GM to =
find out if they did it the same way, but Bill's question&nbsp;got me to =
thinking about it. I found this short article which explains the Fords =
and there&nbsp;are minor differences between the F250 and F350's as =
listed below.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">In my comparison of the 2500HD's to the current F250, I find =
the Ford is less harsh over bumps and wavy pavement making my aging =
bones happier. I suppose that an F350 would be harsher.<span =
style=3D"font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></span></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><h2 =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: =
&quot;open sans&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: =
baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: Engine and Transmission</h2><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 14px; line-height: inherit; =
font-family: &quot;open sans&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Both the F250 and the F350 are =
available with gas or diesel engines. Most are equipped with the diesel =
because it is more economical and hauls/tows better. Both the F250 and =
F350 are also available with both an automatic, and manual transmission. =
So what=E2=80=99s the drivetrain difference? There isn=E2=80=99t =
one.&nbsp;<em style=3D"margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-position: inherit; =
font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-alternates: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; =
line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;" =
class=3D"">The F250 and F350 share the exact same =
drivetrain.</em></p><h2 style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; =
border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: =
Axles</h2><p style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px =
none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 14px; line-height: inherit; =
font-family: &quot;open sans&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Depending on which year you Super =
Duty you=E2=80=99re looking at, the front axle may be a Dana 50 or Dana =
60. Older F250s and F350s use the Dana 50, which is an excellent axle. =
Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana 60 which is slightly beefier than the =
Dana 50. All years of the SRW (Single Rear Wheel) F250 and F350 use the =
Ford/Sterling 10.75. The F350 gets a slightly larger center section, =
otherwise, it=E2=80=99s the same as the F250=E2=80=99s rear axle. All =
years of the dually receive the Dana 80.&nbsp;<em style=3D"margin: 0px; =
padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; =
font-variant-position: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-alternates: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: =
inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Basically the only difference is =
the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger center section.<br class=3D""></em>You can =
read more about this in our&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://dustrunnersauto.com/dana-44-vs-dana-60/" target=3D"_blank"=
 style=3D"margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-style: =
inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-position: =
inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-alternates: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-weight: 600; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; =
line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; =
color: rgb(230, 73, 70); text-decoration-line: none;" class=3D"">Dana 44 =
vs Dana 60</a>&nbsp;article.</p><h2 style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; =
padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: =
Suspension</h2><p style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; =
border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
14px; line-height: inherit; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot;, =
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">All =
years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty springs and =
standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overload =
springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but =
it=E2=80=99s such a small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=99t =
notice on the road. The F350 has stiffer springs up front as standard, =
the F250 has those same springs as an option. Something that surprised =
me is that both of these trucks come with factory blocks in the rear. =
The F250 is equipped with a 2.5=E2=80=B3 block, which lifts the rear up =
to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes factory with a =
4=E2=80=B3 rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 gives it a =
slightly higher tow rating.</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; =
padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
14px; line-height: inherit; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot;, =
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">To =
put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=B3 =
block compared to the F250=E2=80=99s 3.5=E2=80=B3 block.</p><h2 =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: =
&quot;open sans&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: =
baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: Which One is Better?</h2><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 14px; line-height: inherit; =
font-family: &quot;open sans&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Something I didn=E2=80=99t mention =
above is the fact that some states will consider the F350 to be a =
commercial vehicle. This will make your insurance and registration costs =
go up. If you live in a state where that is not the case, I would say =
get an F350. The slightly stiffer springs will make towing a little bit =
nicer. Prices for both the F250 and F350 are nearly identical, so =
there=E2=80=99s really no reason not to go with the F350.</p><div =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Bob =
Kramer</div></div></div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep =
23, 2020 at 7:49 PM Ponostyle via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost =
difference for an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot =
instead of ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s=
 the second F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious =
oil leak that would have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather =
that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all =
this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in and =
got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) =
and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But =
it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for =
shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight foot bed. So long, as in =
REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up to Fritz, my =
34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid city =
block.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">But the =
diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me in =
parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a =
Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I =
get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot =
off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and =
you=E2=80=99re gold.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Sep =
23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-size: 16px; =
font-family: arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I realize everyone has their =
own preferred answer.&nbsp; That said:<div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.&nbsp; =
Heck, we've killed two trailers in that time.&nbsp; It'll hit 400K miles =
before the end of 2020 as long as we dont have any more races =
cancelled.&nbsp; It has a swaybar hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler =
passing can still cause it to get a upset and require a bit of opposite =
lock to keep it between the whites.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and =
alternators.&nbsp; I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of =
our crew cab model.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Previous tow =
vehicle was a Suburban.&nbsp; An uphill departure from a fuel or lunch =
stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few =
seconds.&nbsp; The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it =
does.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">And yes, it's my =
around town daily driver.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">I recall asking =
my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I should consider a =
dually.&nbsp; His reply was that I should only buy such a thing if I =
liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel trailer.&nbsp; =
Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with broken glass =
rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite wide =
enough.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Just my =
experience.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Mike&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 5px; =
margin-left: 0px; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal; font-style: =
normal; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<span =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">From: "Barr, Scott via Fot"<span =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D""></u><br class=3D"">Sent: Sep 23, =
2020 1:31 PM<span class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">To: Amici =
Triumphi<span class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D""></u><br =
class=3D"">Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings<span =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi all,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler =
style trailer for a few years now.&nbsp; It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =
=E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back and 10 feet of RV in the =
front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area).&nbsp; All in, full of =
water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs.&nbsp; I load the trailer =
so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is technically a =
little over the payload limit of the truck, but not too bad.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow =
package putting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo =
EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 ft lb torque.&nbsp; I use a good =
weight-distributing hitch and a sway control strut.&nbsp; And I added =
Air Lift air suspension to help with the extra load.&nbsp; Generally =
speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine.&nbsp; But when it=E2=80=99s =
windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to =
set off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a =
big baby=E2=80=A6).<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether =
moving up to an F-250 super duty would make an appreciable difference in =
the towing performance.&nbsp; An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than =
my F-150, depending on specs of both trucks.&nbsp; Is that enough to =
make a noticeable difference?&nbsp; Are there other factors that would =
make it that much better than an F-150?<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed =
trans makes for a nice street car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 =
average) =E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s what I drive all winter.&nbsp; The =
F-250 Super Duty will get considerably crappier mileage and will be a =
less friendly daily driver (I assume).&nbsp; Not to mention that my =
F-150 is pretty close to paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another =
boatload of debt to move up to the F-250.&nbsp; Which is all to say that =
the towing performance improvement would need to be considerable before =
I would make the move.&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">What say you, towing brain trust?&nbsp; Is it =
worth the move?<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Century Gothic&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Century Gothic&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Scott (B.)<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div></div><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></blockquote></div></div><span style=3D"font-family: =
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: =
inline;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
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From: Mark J Bradakis via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 10:53:33 -0600

Hardy. E type.

mjb.