Subject: Re: [Fot] Center main support

From: Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 16:03:22 -0500

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Interesting, Chris:
My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with the=
 crank supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was developi=
ng high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and that it should be ret=
ired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Based on what you=E2=80=
=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. As they do not grind=
 cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), they had little to gain f=
rom that diagnosis.
Thanks for the input.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Wow!  It's very nicely done.  Certainly overkill.
>=20
> Regards, Tony
>=20
>> On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil Gott wrote:
>> Here are some photos:
>>=20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>> I agree, that sounds like overkill.  Mine only requires the top of the c=
ap to be machined flat, no other block mods.
>>>=20
>>> Regards, Tony
>>>=20
>>> On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Phil Gott wrote:
>>>> Thanks again, Tony:
>>>> The one we have, built by the late Bill  Throop, in addition to reinfor=
cing the cap itself, has the block machined internally to accept the sides o=
f a strap, then the strap  is cross bolted from the sides, through the block=
 from outside.  I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a bit of overkill. Based on=
 your recommendation, it seems to be.
>>>> Maybe I can send some pictures later today, as we are pulling the engin=
e today for other work.
>>>> Phil
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>>>> I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick.  Here's what he wrote ab=
out that (on my engine building tips page):
>>>>>=20
>>>>> "I also like to strap the center main to add rigidity to the bottom en=
d.  To do this, mill off the cast face of the main flush with the surfaces f=
or the head bolts. Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge=
 the holes in the strap  and you must use longer bolts.  Some  builders feel=
 that this is totally unnecessary, but since starting to do this, I have nev=
er had a main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is someth=
ing that happens more frequently than you would expect."
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Regards, Tony Drews
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:
>>>>>> Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to the center main on t=
he TR wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bol=
ted underneath and supporting the center main cap. Is this needed? Just took=
 3 factory cranks to the machine shop and all three were bent about .002 in (=
.002 run out at center main when supported on first and last mains.) Two of t=
hese were raced, the third was removed from a tired street engine. note: Non=
e of these cranks came out of the engine with extra support at the center.
>>>>>> Curious as to the need for the extra support.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Phil Gott
>>>>>> 114 TR4A
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> [email-masked]
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@to=
nydrews.com
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Interesting, Chris:<div>My machine shop sai=
d that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with the crank supported an=
d spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was developing high levels of i=
nternal stress (work hardening) and that it should be retired. They aim for 0=
 run out under these conditions. Based on what you=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder=
 if they are being overly cautious. As they do not grind cranks themselves (=
 only polishing and balancing), they had little to gain from that diagnosis.=
<br>Thanks for the input.<br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony D=
rews &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8"=
 =20
 =20
    <p>Wow!&nbsp; It's very nicely done.&nbsp; Certainly overkill.</p>
    <p>Regards, Tony<br>
    </p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil Gott wrote:<b=
r>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:C6E1215C-1307-4104-B5FE-69125543F1=
[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-=
8">
      Here are some photos:
      <div><div>&lt;image0.jpeg&gt;</div><br>
        <div>&lt;image1.jpeg&gt;</div><br>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;<div>&lt;image2.jpeg&gt;</div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony
            Drews <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:tony@ton=
ydrews.com">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
          <div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
            <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
              charset=3DUTF-8">
            <p>I agree, that sounds like overkill.&nbsp; Mine only requires
              the top of the cap to be machined flat, no other block
              mods.</p>
            <p>Regards, Tony<br>
            </p>
            <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Phil
              Gott wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:E2C8C83A-88A2-4591-839F-56=
[email-masked]">
              <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html;
                charset=3DUTF-8">
              Thanks again, Tony:
              <div>The one we have, built by the late Bill &nbsp;Throop, in
                addition to reinforcing the cap itself, has the block
                machined internally to accept the sides of a strap, then
                the strap &nbsp;is cross bolted from the sides, through the
                block from outside. &nbsp;I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a=
 bit of
                overkill. Based on your recommendation, it seems to be.</div=
              <div>Maybe I can send some pictures later today, as we are
                pulling the engine today for other work.</div>
              <div>Phil<br>
                <br>
                <div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
                <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
                  <blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM,
                    Tony Drews <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;=
</a>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <br>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                  <div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
                    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
                      charset=3DUTF-8">
                    <p>I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick.&nbsp;
                      Here's what he wrote about that (on my engine
                      building tips page):</p>
                    <p><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
                        Tahoma, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size:
                        medium; font-style: normal;
                        font-variant-ligatures: normal;
                        font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
                        letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align:
                        left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                        white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing:
                        0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                        background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                        text-decoration-style: initial;
                        text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
                        !important; float: none;">"I also like to strap
                        the center main to add rigidity to the bottom
                        end.&nbsp; To do this, mill off the cast face of the=

                        main flush with the surfaces for the head bolts.
                        Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You
                        must enlarge the holes in the strap&nbsp; and you
                        must use longer bolts. &nbsp;Some&nbsp; builders fee=
l that
                        this is totally unnecessary, but since starting
                        to do this, I have never had a main bearing
                        deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is
                        something that happens more frequently than you
                        would expect."</span></p>
                    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Regards, Tony Drews<br>
                    </div>
                    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM,
                      Phil Gott via Fot wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:9832B3FA-B6DB-40A2=
[email-masked]">
                      <pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">Has anyone seen=
 the need to add extra support to the center main on the TR wet sleeve engin=
e? We have an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bolted underneath and sup=
porting the center main cap. Is this needed? Just took 3 factory cranks to t=
he machine shop and all three were bent about .002 in (.002 run out at cente=
r main when supported on first and last mains.) Two of these were raced, the=
 third was removed from a tired street engine. note: None of these cranks ca=
me out of the engine with extra support at the center.
Curious as to the need for the extra support.
Thanks,
Phil Gott
114 TR4A

Sent from my iPhone
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</pre>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
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            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
 =20

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From: Kas Kastner via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:57:41 -0800

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What Chris has failed to mention is that he holds the revs to 6000 and thus
relieves a lot ofstrees on the entire engine.

*Never be beaten by equipment.*

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 1:03 PM Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Interesting, Chris:
> My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with =
the crank
> supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was developing
> high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and that it should be
> retired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Based on what
> you=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. As they =
do not
> grind cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), they had little =
to
> gain from that diagnosis.
> Thanks for the input.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> I agree, that sounds like overkill.  Mine only requires the top of the ca=
p
> to be machined flat, no other block mods.
>
> Regards, Tony
> The one we have, built by the late Bill  Throop, in addition to
> reinforcing the cap itself, has the block machined internally to accept t=
he
> sides of a strap, then the strap  is cross bolted from the sides, through
> the block from outside.  I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a bit of overki=
ll. Based
> on your recommendation, it seems to be.
> Maybe I can send some pictures later today, as we are pulling the engine
> today for other work.
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick.  Here's what he wrote about
> that (on my engine building tips page):
>
> "I also like to strap the center main to add rigidity to the bottom end.
> To do this, mill off the cast face of the main flush with the surfaces fo=
r
> the head bolts. Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge
> the holes in the strap  and you must use longer bolts.  Some  builders fe=
el
> that this is totally unnecessary, but since starting to do this, I have
> never had a main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is
> something that happens more frequently than you would expect."
> Regards, Tony Drews
>
> Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to the center main on the T=
R wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bolted=
 underneath and supporting the center main cap. Is this needed? Just took 3=
 factory cranks to the machine shop and all three were bent about .002 in (=
.002 run out at center main when supported on first and last mains.) Two of=
 these were raced, the third was removed from a tired street engine. note: =
None of these cranks came out of the engine with extra support at the cente=
r.
> [email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydr=
ews.com
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">What Chris has failed to mention is that he holds the revs=
 to 6000 and thus relieves a lot ofstrees on the entire engine.<br clear=3D=
"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><p><strong><=
font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></strong></p></d=
iv></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr"=
 dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 1:03 PM Phil Gott via Fot &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-w=
idth:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"auto">Interesting, Chris:<div=
>My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with t=
he crank supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was devel=
oping high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and that it should be=
 retired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Based on what you=
=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. As they do no=
t grind cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), they had little =
to gain from that diagnosis.<br>Thanks for the input.<br><div dir=3D"ltr">S=
ent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On N=
ov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote>=
</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
 =20
   =20
 =20
 =20
    <p>Wow!=C2=A0 It&#39;s very nicely done.=C2=A0 Certainly overkill.</p>
    <p>Regards, Tony<br>
    </p>
    <div>On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil Gott wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      Here are some photos:
      <div><div>&lt;image0.jpeg&gt;</div><br>
        <div>&lt;image1.jpeg&gt;</div><br>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0<div>&lt;image2.jpeg&gt;</div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony
            Drews <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">&=
lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
          <div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
           =20
            <p>I agree, that sounds like overkill.=C2=A0 Mine only requires
              the top of the cap to be machined flat, no other block
              mods.</p>
            <p>Regards, Tony<br>
            </p>
            <div>On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Phil
              Gott wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
             =20
              Thanks again, Tony:
              <div>The one we have, built by the late Bill =C2=A0Throop, in
                addition to reinforcing the cap itself, has the block
                machined internally to accept the sides of a strap, then
                the strap =C2=A0is cross bolted from the sides, through the
                block from outside.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is =
a bit of
                overkill. Based on your recommendation, it seems to be.</di=
v>
              <div>Maybe I can send some pictures later today, as we are
                pulling the engine today for other work.</div>
              <div>Phil<br>
                <br>
                <div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
                <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
                  <blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM,
                    Tony Drews <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <br>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                  <div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
                   =20
                    <p>I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick.=C2=A0
                      Here&#39;s what he wrote about that (on my engine
                      building tips page):</p>
                    <p><span style=3D"text-align:left;color:rgb(0,0,0);text=
-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-family:Tahoma,He=
lvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-weight:400=
;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;white-space:normal;background-c=
olor:rgb(255,255,255)">&quot;I also like to strap
                        the center main to add rigidity to the bottom
                        end.=C2=A0 To do this, mill off the cast face of th=
e
                        main flush with the surfaces for the head bolts.
                        Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You
                        must enlarge the holes in the strap=C2=A0 and you
                        must use longer bolts.=C2=A0 Some=C2=A0 builders fe=
el that
                        this is totally unnecessary, but since starting
                        to do this, I have never had a main bearing
                        deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is
                        something that happens more frequently than you
                        would expect.&quot;</span></p>
                    <div>Regards, Tony Drews<br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM,
                      Phil Gott via Fot wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                      <pre>Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to=
 the center main on the TR wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a =
steel bridge cross-bolted underneath and supporting the center main cap. Is=
 this needed? Just took 3 factory cranks to the machine shop and all three =
were bent about .002 in (.002 run out at center main when supported on firs=
t and last mains.) Two of these were raced, the third was removed from a ti=
red street engine. note: None of these cranks came out of the engine with e=
xtra support at the center.
Curious as to the need for the extra support.
Thanks,
Phil Gott
114 TR4A

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>

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</pre>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
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      </div>
    </blockquote>
 =20

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From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 00:26:38 +0100

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Hi Phil,

=20

If I give a crank to the machine shop for testing and maybe polishing =
they also correcting straightness.

They using a hammer and a wedge like tool with brass or bronze surface =
and giving it a big blow at some places to make it straight.

They also checking with magna flux system for cracks.

=20

I run 0.0027=E2=80=9D main bearing clearance.

=20

For sure Kas throw in is right. I keep the revs below 6k with the =
standard crank.

Many people going up to 7k with their engines but I don=E2=80=99t dare. =
A billet crank might help a little but I saw billet cranks breaking too.

=20

Engine power is not my main concern. Cornering speed is.

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

Von: Fot <[email-masked]> Im Auftrag von Phil Gott via Fot
Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. November 2019 22:03
An: Friends Of Triumph <[email-masked]>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Center main support

=20

Interesting, Chris:

My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with =
the crank supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was =
developing high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and that it =
should be retired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Based =
on what you=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. =
As they do not grind cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), =
they had little to gain from that diagnosis.
Thanks for the input.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews <[email-masked] =

=EF=BB=BF=20

Regards, Tony

Here are some photos:=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF=20

I agree, that sounds like overkill.  Mine only requires the top of the =
cap to be machined flat, no other block mods.

Regards, Tony

Thanks again, Tony:=20

The one we have, built by the late Bill  Throop, in addition to =
reinforcing the cap itself, has the block machined internally to accept =
the sides of a strap, then the strap  is cross bolted from the sides, =
through the block from outside.  I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a bit =
of overkill. Based on your recommendation, it seems to be.

Maybe I can send some pictures later today, as we are pulling the engine =
today for other work.

Phil

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF=20

I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick.  Here's what he wrote =
about that (on my engine building tips page):

"I also like to strap the center main to add rigidity to the bottom end. =
 To do this, mill off the cast face of the main flush with the surfaces =
for the head bolts. Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You must =
enlarge the holes in the strap  and you must use longer bolts.  Some  =
builders feel that this is totally unnecessary, but since starting to do =
this, I have never had a main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod =
bearing, which is something that happens more frequently than you would =
expect."

Regards, Tony Drews

=20

Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to the center main on the =
TR wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a steel bridge =
cross-bolted underneath and supporting the center main cap. Is this =
needed? Just took 3 factory cranks to the machine shop and all three =
were bent about .002 in (.002 run out at center main when supported on =
first and last mains.) Two of these were raced, the third was removed =
from a tired street engine. note: None of these cranks came out of the =
engine with extra support at the center.
Curious as to the need for the extra support.
Thanks,
Phil Gott
114 TR4A
=20
Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
=20
http://www.fot-racing.com
=20
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
=20
=20
=20

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Phil,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If I give a crank to the machine =
shop for testing and maybe polishing they also correcting =
straightness.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>They using a hammer =
and a wedge like tool with brass or bronze surface and giving it a big =
blow at some places to make it straight.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>They also checking with magna flux =
system for cracks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I run 0.0027=E2=80=9D main bearing =
clearance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>For sure Kas throw in is right. I =
keep the revs below 6k with the standard crank.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Many people going up to 7k with =
their engines but I don=E2=80=99t dare. A billet crank might help a =
little but I saw billet cranks breaking too.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Engine power is not my main =
concern. Cornering speed is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Von:</b> Fot =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Phil Gott via =
Fot<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 24. November 2019 22:03<br><b>An:</b> =
Friends Of Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: =
[Fot] Center main support<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Interesting, =
Chris:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>My machine shop said that =
.002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with the crank supported and =
spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was developing high levels of =
internal stress (work hardening) and that it should be retired. They aim =
for 0 run out under these conditions. Based on what you=E2=80=99ve said, =
I wonder if they are being overly cautious. As they do not grind cranks =
themselves ( only polishing and balancing), they had little to gain from =
that diagnosis.<br>Thanks for the input.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><p>Wow!&nbsp; It's very =
nicely done.&nbsp; Certainly overkill.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Regards, =
Tony<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil =
Gott wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Here =
are some photos: <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&lt;image0.jpeg&gt;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&lt;image1.jpeg&gt;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&lt;image2.jpeg&gt;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews =
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><p>I agree, that sounds like =
overkill.&nbsp; Mine only requires the top of the cap to be machined =
flat, no other block mods.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Regards, =
Tony<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Phil =
Gott wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks again, Tony: <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The one we have, built by the late Bill &nbsp;Throop, =
in addition to reinforcing the cap itself, has the block machined =
internally to accept the sides of a strap, then the strap &nbsp;is cross =
bolted from the sides, through the block from outside. &nbsp;I=E2=80=99m =
wondering if this is a bit of overkill. Based on your recommendation, it =
seems to be.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Maybe I can =
send some pictures later today, as we are pulling the engine today for =
other work.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Phil<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews =
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><p>I run that setup, it was =
an uncle jack trick.&nbsp; Here's what he wrote about that (on my engine =
building tips page):<o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;bac=
kground:white'>&quot;I also like to strap the center main to add =
rigidity to the bottom end.&nbsp; To do this, mill off the cast face of =
the main flush with the surfaces for the head bolts. Get a front strap =
for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge the holes in the strap&nbsp; and =
you must use longer bolts. &nbsp;Some&nbsp; builders feel that this is =
totally unnecessary, but since starting to do this, I have never had a =
main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is something =
that happens more frequently than you would =
expect.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards, =
Tony Drews<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM, Phil Gott via Fot =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Has anyone seen the =
need to add extra support to the center main on the TR wet sleeve =
engine? We have an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bolted =
underneath and supporting the center main cap. Is this needed? Just took =
3 factory cranks to the machine shop and all three were bent about .002 =
in (.002 run out at center main when supported on first and last mains.) =
Two of these were raced, the third was removed from a tired street =
engine. note: None of these cranks came out of the engine with extra =
support at the center.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Curious as to the need for =
the extra =
support.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Phil =
Gott<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>114 =
TR4A<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_____________________________________________=
__<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p><=
/pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></pre></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>=
</blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></body></h=
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---

From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 00:29:05 +0100

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To add:

The reason for the deformation of the crank is cause by the ignition =
forces.

The rod is hammering on one place of the bearing journal and like a =
Schnitzel it expands at that place from hammering on which bends the =
crank.

Simple as that :)

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

=20

Interesting, Chris:

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF=20

Regards, Tony

Here are some photos:=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF=20

Regards, Tony

Thanks again, Tony:=20

Phil

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF=20

Regards, Tony Drews

=20

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	{font-family:Wingdings;
	panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>To =
add:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The reason for the deformation of =
the crank is cause by the ignition forces.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The rod is hammering on one place =
of the bearing journal and like a Schnitzel it expands at that place =
from hammering on which bends the crank.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Simple as that </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>J</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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