Subject: Re: [Fot] Center main support

From: Bill Dentinger via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 23:58:39 +0000 (UTC)

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Ist das nicht ein schnitzel bank?Ja, das ist ein schnitzel bank!

Bill Dentinger

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
 On=C2=A0Sunday, November 24, 2019,=C2=A0Steven Belfer via Fot=C2=A0<fot@au=
tox.team.net>=C2=A0wrote:

Mmmmmmm schnitzel=C2=A0

~Steve

On Nov 24, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
#yiv7704180401 #yiv7704180401 -- _filtered #yiv7704180401 {font-family:Wing=
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To add:

The reason for the deformation of the crank is cause by the ignition forces=
.

The rod is hammering on one place of the bearing journal and like a Schnitz=
el it expands at that place from hammering on which bends the crank.

Simple as that J

 =C2=A0

Cheers

Chris

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

Von: Fot <[email-masked]> Im Auftrag von Phil Gott via Fot
Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. November 2019 22:03
An: Friends Of Triumph <[email-masked]>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Center main support

 =C2=A0

Interesting, Chris:

My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with th=
e crank supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was develo=
ping high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and that it should be =
retired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Based on what you=
=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. As they do no=
t grind cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), they had little =
to gain from that diagnosis.
Thanks for the input.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Wow!=C2=A0 It's very nicely done.=C2=A0 Certainly overkill.

Regards, Tony

On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil Gott wrote:

Here are some photos:=20

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

=C2=A0

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

I agree, that sounds like overkill.=C2=A0 Mine only requires the top of the=
 cap to be machined flat, no other block mods.

Regards, Tony

On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Phil Gott wrote:

Thanks again, Tony:=20

The one we have, built by the late Bill =C2=A0Throop, in addition to reinfo=
rcing the cap itself, has the block machined internally to accept the sides=
 of a strap, then the strap =C2=A0is cross bolted from the sides, through t=
he block from outside. =C2=A0I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a bit of over=
kill. Based on your recommendation, it seems to be.

Maybe I can send some pictures later today, as we are pulling the engine to=
day for other work.

Phil

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick.=C2=A0 Here's what he wrote ab=
out that (on my engine building tips page):

"I also like to strap the center main to add rigidity to the bottom end.=C2=
=A0 To do this, mill off the cast face of the main flush with the surfaces =
for the head bolts. Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlar=
ge the holes in the strap=C2=A0 and you must use longer bolts. =C2=A0Some=
=C2=A0 builders feel that this is totally unnecessary, but since starting t=
o do this, I have never had a main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod be=
aring, which is something that happens more frequently than you would expec=
t."

Regards, Tony Drews

 =C2=A0

On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:

Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to the center main on the TR =
wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bolted u=
nderneath and supporting the center main cap. Is this needed? Just took 3 f=
actory cranks to the machine shop and all three were bent about .002 in (.0=
02 run out at center main when supported on first and last mains.) Two of t=
hese were raced, the third was removed from a tired street engine. note: No=
ne of these cranks came out of the engine with extra support at the center.=
Curious as to the need for the extra support.Thanks,Phil Gott114 TR4A =C2=
=A0Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________fot@au=
tox.team.net =C2=A0http://www.fot-racing.com =C2=A0Donate: http://www.team.=
net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/p=
ipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/t=
[email-masked] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
cars.com

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l.com

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Ist das nicht ein schnitzel bank?<div>Ja, das ist ein schnitzel bank!<br><d=
iv><br></div><div>Bill Dentinger<br><br><div id=3D"__aol_mail_signature__">=
<div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light;color:#949494;font-size:11px;=
">Sent from AOL Mobile Mail<br>Get the new AOL app: <a style=3D"font-family=
:HelveticaNeue-Light;font-size:11px;" href=3D"http://mail.mobile.aol.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">mail.mobile.aol.com</a></div></div>

<br><div class=3D"aolmail_replyHeader">
    On&nbsp;Sunday, November 24, 2019,&nbsp;Steven Belfer via Fot&nbsp;&lt;=
[email-masked]&gt;&nbsp;wrote:
</div><br>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 9px;padding:0 0 0 9px;"><div id=3D"yiv770=
4180401"><div>Mmmmmmm schnitzel&nbsp;<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=
<div dir=3D"ltr">~Steve<div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><div class=3D"yi=
v7704180401yqt0186920422" id=3D"yiv7704180401yqt14521"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
 clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 24, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Chri=
s Marx via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clea=
r=3D"none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
=EF=BB=BF</div></blockquote></div></div><div class=3D"yiv7704180401yqt01869=
20422" id=3D"yiv7704180401yqt62950"><style>#yiv7704180401 #yiv7704180401 --
=20
 _filtered #yiv7704180401 {font-family:Wingdings;panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0=
 0;}
 _filtered #yiv7704180401 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
 _filtered #yiv7704180401 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 =
4;}
 _filtered #yiv7704180401 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4=
;}
 _filtered #yiv7704180401 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2=
 4;}
#yiv7704180401 =20
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#yiv7704180401 div.yiv7704180401WordSection1
=09{}
#yiv7704180401 </style><div><div class=3D"yiv7704180401WordSection1"><p cla=
ss=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">To add:</span=
></p><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">Th=
e reason for the deformation of the crank is cause by the ignition forces.<=
/span></p><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"">The rod is hammering on one place of the bearing journal and like a Schn=
itzel it expands at that place from hammering on which bends the crank.</sp=
an></p><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">=
Simple as that </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;"=
>J</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""></span></p><p class=3D"yiv77041804=
01MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"=
yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">Cheers</span></p><p=
 class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">Chris</sp=
an></p><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">=
 &nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:soli=
d #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNor=
mal"><b>Von:</b> Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von <=
/b>Phil Gott via Fot<br clear=3D"none"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 24. Novemb=
er 2019 22:03<br clear=3D"none"><b>An:</b> Friends Of Triumph &lt;fot@autox=
.team.net&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Center main suppo=
rt</p></div></div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p class=
=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">Interesting, Chris:</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7704=
180401MsoNormal">My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the cen=
ter main, with the crank supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign t=
hat it was developing high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and t=
hat it should be retired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Ba=
sed on what you=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious=
. As they do not grind cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), t=
hey had little to gain from that diagnosis.<br clear=3D"none">Thanks for th=
e input.</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p=
></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"none"><br clea=
r=3D"none"></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">=
<p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;">On Nov =
24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" yma=
ilto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:tony@to=
nydrews.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</p></blockquote></div><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><p class=3D"yiv7=
704180401MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF </p><p>Wow!&nbsp; It's very nicely done.&nbsp=
; Certainly overkill.</p><p>Regards, Tony</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401=
MsoNormal">On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil Gott wrote:</p></div><blockquote sty=
le=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNo=
rmal">Here are some photos: </p><div><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNorma=
l">&lt;image0.jpeg&gt;</p></div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"> &nbsp;=
</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">&lt;image1.jpeg&gt;</p></div><=
p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><div><p class=3D"yiv770418040=
1MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">&lt;image2.j=
peg&gt;</p></div></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p></div><div><p class=3D=
"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></p><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><p class=3D"yiv77041804=
01MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;">On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, =
Tony Drews <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:tony@tonydr=
ews.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;tony@tony=
drews.com&gt;</a> wrote:</p></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-=
top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">=
=EF=BB=BF </p><p>I agree, that sounds like overkill.&nbsp; Mine only requir=
es the top of the cap to be machined flat, no other block mods.</p><p>Regar=
ds, Tony</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM,=
 Phil Gott wrote:</p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bot=
tom:5.0pt;"><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">Thanks again, Tony: </p><di=
v><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">The one we have, built by the late Bi=
ll &nbsp;Throop, in addition to reinforcing the cap itself, has the block m=
achined internally to accept the sides of a strap, then the strap &nbsp;is =
cross bolted from the sides, through the block from outside. &nbsp;I=E2=80=
=99m wondering if this is a bit of overkill. Based on your recommendation, =
it seems to be.</p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">Maybe I c=
an send some pictures later today, as we are pulling the engine today for o=
ther work.</p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-bottom:12.0pt;">Phil</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">Sent fro=
m my iPhone</p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"=
none"><br clear=3D"none"></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-b=
ottom:5.0pt;"><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12=
.0pt;">On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:</p></blockq=
uote></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div=
><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF </p><p>I run that setup, it =
was an uncle jack trick.&nbsp; Here's what he wrote about that (on my engin=
e building tips page):</p><p><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;">"I also like=
 to strap the center main to add rigidity to the bottom end.&nbsp; To do th=
is, mill off the cast face of the main flush with the surfaces for the head=
 bolts. Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge the holes=
 in the strap&nbsp; and you must use longer bolts. &nbsp;Some&nbsp; builder=
s feel that this is totally unnecessary, but since starting to do this, I h=
ave never had a main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which i=
s something that happens more frequently than you would expect."</span></p>=
<div><p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal">Regards, Tony Drews</p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"yiv7704180401MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv77=
04180401MsoNormal">On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:</p></div=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><pre>Has anyon=
e seen the need to add extra support to the center main on the TR wet sleev=
e engine? We have an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bolted underneath=
 and supporting the center main cap. Is this needed? Just took 3 factory cr=
anks to the machine shop and all three were bent about .002 in (.002 run ou=
t at center main when supported on first and last mains.) Two of these were=
 raced, the third was removed from a tired street engine. note: None of the=
se cranks came out of the engine with extra support at the center.</pre><pr=
e>Curious as to the need for the extra support.</pre><pre>Thanks,</pre><pre=
>Phil Gott</pre><pre>114 TR4A</pre><pre> &nbsp;</pre><pre>Sent from my iPho=
ne</pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre><a r=
el=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></pre>=
<pre> &nbsp;</pre><pre><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank"=
 href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></pre><pre=
> &nbsp;</pre><pre>Donate: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_bl=
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iv></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></=
div></div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br c=
lear=3D"none"><span>[email-masked]</span><br clear=3D"none"><span></spa=
n><br clear=3D"none"><span>http://www.fot-racing.com</span><br clear=3D"non=
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">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shap=
e=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a sha=
pe=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: Bill Dentinger via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 23:58:39 +0000 (UTC)

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Bill Dentinger

Mmmmmmm schnitzel=C2=A0

~Steve

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Simple as that J

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Cheers

Chris

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Interesting, Chris:

Sent from my iPhone

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Regards, Tony

Here are some photos:=20

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Sent from my iPhone

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Regards, Tony

Thanks again, Tony:=20

Phil

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF=20

Regards, Tony Drews

 =C2=A0

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