Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question

From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 17:33:10 +0000 (UTC)

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 Damned right, my 1300 small-crank has always had a single row chain, for t=
hat reason, that double-row setup is heavy.At 6-8 hour TBO, the chain & ten=
sioner were routine replacement anyhow.Also not all chains & tensioners are=
 created equal, some vendors are now offering quality chains as an option, =
and the tensioners should be plated, they last a lot longer.
Glen

heavy ass double chain set up??=20
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: fot <[email-masked]>; Mathieu W. Huovinen <[email-masked]>; Rob=
ert Lang <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 9:28 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question

 That's about normal, why in the sam hell are you using that heavy ass doub=
le chain set up?? Come on man get it together.

    On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 08:29:26 AM EST, Robert Lang via Fot <fo=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
  Hi - They usually "jump" a tooth on overrun, or at least that's my experi=
ence. Or it can happen on a backfire... I had a Pontiac with a V8 back in t=
he day. The exhaust pipe broke before the muffler, so it had a really kool =
rumble sound. I used to take it out at night and drive exit ramps at "stupi=
d speed" and then downshift the auto trans one gear to get the koolest soun=
d... not to mention "power-off oversteer".=C2=A0 Drift City. After one of t=
hese excursions, the engine became very hard to start. I took the car off t=
he road and sold it to a friend. About a month later, he called me up all p=
issed off and wanting his $600 back because he had to fix the timing chain.
Never sold a car to a friend or associate ever again.
;-)
But in addition to the new chain and tensioner, take a close look at that c=
rank gear and make sure the "troughs" don't have a burr or the points aren'=
t sharp, either would indicate wear and you don't want that.
I don't recall a spec for play in the chain, but you want "as little as pos=
sible". If you can get the cam gear onto the cam easily with the chain thre=
aded, that's too loose.

C ya,Bob Lang

    On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 7:54:29 AM EST, Mathieu W. Huovinen <mad=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Bob and FOT,I'm beginning to suspect a combination of a weak chain tension=
er and an engine harmonic that may have caused it. Attached a pic of the pl=
ay in the timing chain..about 1/2". Is that too much? If so, Ted, I'll be c=
ontacting you shortly. Chain is about two years old, maybe 6 weekend s of r=
acing on it. New chain tensioner from Moss should be here today and I'm int=
erested in seeing the difference in spring arch between the original single=
 chain tensioner and the new TR6 double chain tensioner. Stay tuned!Mathieu=
 On Monday, November 25, 2019 Robert Lang <[email-masked]> wrote:
 Hi - I've seen this before. Mostly on American V8's but the principle is t=
he same... It's almost always a loose chain or worn teeth on the crank gear=
. If the=C2=A0 crank gear has really sharp teeth, the gear is probably worn=
. Note that this is really easy to overlook. And I've had this problem with=
 TR6 engines a couple of times. Especially if you sourced the inexpensive g=
ears. Seems like the hardening of the metal is wrong on some of the parts o=
ut there.

That said, the numbers look like you jumped more than one tooth. If the "ju=
mp" occurred on the crank end one tooth is about 17 degrees (360/21 teeth).=
 Your mention of 150ish for your lobe center sound more like more than 34 d=
egrees or retard, the progression would be (roughly) 104 - good, 121 - not =
good, 138 - bad, 155 - really bad, etc. Note that I have seen engines run w=
ith more than 30 degrees of retard, but they ran very poorly!
I'd double check your crank gear for wear... actually, I'd just replace it =
along with the tensioner. Note that the current chain tensioners seem to be=
 not as good as the OEM ones as the new ones wear fairly rapidly.
On the plus side, at least you didn't bend a valve in the process.
C ya,Bob Lang339-927-4489

    On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 10:38:49 PM EST, Mathieu W. Huovinen via =
Fot <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Fellas,
Sounds like we have the bearing cap strap issue resolved...who is up for an=
other mystery? Has anyone ever has their timing chain skip a tooth??
Final race on Saturday at the Turlkey Bowl this weekend at Summit Point. Tr=
iumph Spitfire..1296 engine. Double roller chain set. Car was running well =
all weekend, was out twice earlier that day. We leave false grid for the to=
 set up for the first lap and I begin to accelerate. All of a sudden the ca=
r just dies and I coast off the track even before turn one. On the side of =
the track I couldn't start the car. In my mind I'm thinking my perrtonix di=
stributor just took a shit. Got towed in and all I'm thinking in pertronix.=
 I swap in a points distributor and nothing. Perhaps my coil? Swap in a new=
 coil. Nothing. Plugs perhaps? Swap in a good set of NGKs. Nothing. Not eve=
n a cough out of the engine. By this time I had run down the battery from t=
rying to start it so much. At this point I was jumping the racecar battery =
from my Tundra truck battery thinking perhaps a weak spark from a shot batt=
ery. Nothing. Was getting plenty of fuel because the plugs were wet. I even=
 pulled and cleaned all the jets out of the Weber 45 DCOE just to make sure=
 I was getting correct fuel. Fuel. Air. Spark. COMPRESSION. This next day (=
this morning) I did a compression test at the track. 80/70/70/70. What the =
heck? Thats not a blown head gasket..the cam HAS to be out of timing. I spe=
nt the majority of the 5 hour drive home trying to figure it out. Got home,=
 car off trailer, straight to work. Pulled radiator, pulley, timing chain c=
over. No damage. Find TDC and put on my degree wheel. Pulled rockers and se=
t dial indicator on #1 intake. Tuned engine over to where cam sheet says wh=
ere #1 centerline is- 104 degrees after TDC while watching dial indicator. =
Went past 104 and dial was still climbing. Made it to to about 150ish degre=
es past TDC til indicator started to drop back down so I know I had went ri=
ght past the peak of the lobe. Pulled chain off carefully and rotated camsh=
aft until I found peak of lobe and moved crank back to 104 and set the chai=
n back on...about one tooth =C2=A0Put rockers back on and checked compressi=
on on #1. 160 PSI. That's as far as I got before my wife came down to yell =
art me. It was already 2130 at this point. More tomorrow as I put it back t=
ogether.=C2=A0
Thoughts? Ideas? Can the timing chain "float" at high revs? Thank-you in ad=
vance for any input!
V/r,
Mathieu Huovinen_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
@yahoo.com

    _______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
tt.net

  _______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
m

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">
<div id=3D"yiv3417643484">
<div>
<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div> <font size=3D"2">Damned right, my 1300 small-crank has always had a s=
ingle row chain, for that reason, that double-row setup is heavy.</font></d=
iv>

<div><font size=3D"2">At 6-8 hour TBO, the chain &amp; tensioner were routi=
ne replacement anyhow.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Also not all chains &amp; tensioners are created equa=
l, some vendors are now offering quality chains as an option, and the tensi=
oners should be plated, they last a lot longer.<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"></font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><bl=
ockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid blue;padding-left:3px;">heavy ass d=
ouble chain set up?? </blockquote></div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: Rick Parent via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Mathieu W. Huovinen &lt;maddhatt69@aol.=
com&gt;; Robert Lang &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 9:28 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484yqt6309134965" id=3D"yiv3417643484yqt74144">
<div id=3D"yiv3417643484">

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydpb3bd1df7yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">

<div></div>

       =20

<div dir=3D"ltr">That's about normal, why in the sam hell are you using tha=
t heavy ass double chain set up?? Come on man get it together.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

       =20
        </div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484yahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv3417643484yahoo_quoted_52=
77086885">
           =20

<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
               =20

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484yqt6967619983" id=3D"yiv3417643484yqt34099">

<div>
                    On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 08:29:26 AM EST, Robert =
Lang via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>

               =20

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20

<div>

<div id=3D"yiv3417643484">

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydp611829c6yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">

<div></div>

       =20

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi - They usually "jump" a tooth on overrun, or at least t=
hat's my experience. Or it can happen on a backfire... I had a Pontiac with=
 a V8 back in the day. The exhaust pipe broke before the muffler, so it had=
 a really kool rumble sound. I used to take it out at night and drive exit =
ramps at "stupid speed" and then downshift the auto trans one gear to get t=
he koolest sound... not to mention "power-off oversteer".&nbsp; Drift City.=
 After one of these excursions, the engine became very hard to start. I too=
k the car off the road and sold it to a friend. About a month later, he cal=
led me up all pissed off and wanting his $600 back because he had to fix th=
e timing chain.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Never sold a car to a friend or associate ever again.</div=

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">;-)</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">But in addition to the new chain and tensioner, take a clo=
se look at that crank gear and make sure the "troughs" don't have a burr or=
 the points aren't sharp, either would indicate wear and you don't want tha=
t.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">I don't recall a spec for play in the chain, but you want =
"as little as possible". If you can get the cam gear onto the cam easily wi=
th the chain threaded, that's too loose.<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">C ya,</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Lang<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

       =20
        </div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484yqt6897922118" id=3D"yiv3417643484yqt81517">

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv3417643484ydpa=
e93fd03yahoo_quoted_5731993783">
           =20

<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
               =20

<div>
                    On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 7:54:29 AM EST, Mathieu =
W. Huovinen &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>

               =20

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20

<div>

<div id=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Bob and FOT,</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">I'm beginning to suspect a combination of a weak chain ten=
sioner and an engine harmonic that may have caused it. Attached a pic of th=
e play in the timing chain..about 1/2". Is that too much? If so, Ted, I'll =
be contacting you shortly. Chain is about two years old, maybe 6 weekend s =
of racing on it. New chain tensioner from Moss should be here today and I'm=
 interested in seeing the difference in spring arch between the original si=
ngle chain tensioner and the new TR6 double chain tensioner. Stay tuned!</d=
iv>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Mathieu </div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_=
quote"></div>

<hr style=3D"border-color:currentcolor;border-style:none;border-width:0px;m=
in-height:1px;color:rgb(153, 153, 153);background-color:rgb(153, 153, 153);=
width:100%;margin:0px 0px 9px;padding:0px;"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;c=
olor:#999999;">On Monday, November 25, 2019 Robert Lang &lt;<span style=3D"=
color:#0000A0;">[email-masked]</span>&gt; wrote:</span><br clear=
=3D"none">

<div id=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333"></div>

</div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333yqt7004682114" id=3D"yiv=
3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333yqt58219">

<div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333ydpc7a6ebd8yahoo-style-w=
rap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;">

<div></div>

       =20

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi - I've seen this before. Mostly on American V8's but th=
e principle is the same... It's almost always a loose chain or worn teeth o=
n the crank gear. If the&nbsp; crank gear has really sharp teeth, the gear =
is probably worn. Note that this is really easy to overlook. And I've had t=
his problem with TR6 engines a couple of times. Especially if you sourced t=
he inexpensive gears. Seems like the hardening of the metal is wrong on som=
e of the parts out there.<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">That said, the numbers look like you jumped more than one =
tooth. If the "jump" occurred on the crank end one tooth is about 17 degree=
s (360/21 teeth). Your mention of 150ish for your lobe center sound more li=
ke more than 34 degrees or retard, the progression would be (roughly) 104 -=
 good, 121 - not good, 138 - bad, 155 - really bad, etc. Note that I have s=
een engines run with more than 30 degrees of retard, but they ran very poor=
ly!</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">I'd double check your crank gear for wear... actually, I'd=
 just replace it along with the tensioner. Note that the current chain tens=
ioners seem to be not as good as the OEM ones as the new ones wear fairly r=
apidly.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">On the plus side, at least you didn't bend a valve in the =
process.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">C ya,</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Lang</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">339-927-4489<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

       =20
        </div>

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333ydpc2efc1c9yahoo_quoted"=
 id=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333ydpc2efc1c9yahoo_quoted_5402201=
527">
           =20

<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
               =20

<div class=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333yqt1765380690" id=3D"yiv=
3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333yqt19484">

<div>
                    On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 10:38:49 PM EST, Mathieu =
W. Huovinen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>

               =20

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20

<div>

<div id=3D"yiv3417643484ydpae93fd03yiv5344134333ydpc2efc1c9yiv0645507289">

<div style=3D"color:black;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch=
:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial;font-size-adjus=
t:none;">Fellas,

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Sounds like we have the bearing cap strap issue resolved...who is up f=
or another mystery? Has anyone ever has their timing chain skip a tooth??</=
div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Final race on Saturday at the Turlkey Bowl this weekend at Summit Poin=
t. Triumph Spitfire..1296 engine. Double roller chain set. Car was running =
well all weekend, was out twice earlier that day. We leave false grid for t=
he to set up for the first lap and I begin to accelerate. All of a sudden t=
he car just dies and I coast off the track even before turn one. On the sid=
e of the track I couldn't start the car. In my mind I'm thinking my perrton=
ix distributor just took a shit. Got towed in and all I'm thinking in pertr=
onix. I swap in a points distributor and nothing. Perhaps my coil? Swap in =
a new coil. Nothing. Plugs perhaps? Swap in a good set of NGKs. Nothing. No=
t even a cough out of the engine. By this time I had run down the battery f=
rom trying to start it so much. At this point I was jumping the racecar bat=
tery from my Tundra truck battery thinking perhaps a weak spark from a shot=
 battery. Nothing. Was getting plenty of fuel because the plugs were wet. I=
 even pulled and cleaned all the jets out of the Weber 45 DCOE just to make=
 sure I was getting correct fuel. Fuel. Air. Spark. COMPRESSION. This next =
day (this morning) I did a compression test at the track. 80/70/70/70. What=
 the heck? Thats not a blown head gasket..the cam HAS to be out of timing. =
I spent the majority of the 5 hour drive home trying to figure it out. Got =
home, car off trailer, straight to work. Pulled radiator, pulley, timing ch=
ain cover. No damage. Find TDC and put on my degree wheel. Pulled rockers a=
nd set dial indicator on #1 intake. Tuned engine over to where cam sheet sa=
ys where #1 centerline is- 104 degrees after TDC while watching dial indica=
tor. Went past 104 and dial was still climbing. Made it to to about 150ish =
degrees past TDC til indicator started to drop back down so I know I had we=
nt right past the peak of the lobe. Pulled chain off carefully and rotated =
camshaft until I found peak of lobe and moved crank back to 104 and set the=
 chain back on...about one tooth &nbsp;Put rockers back on and checked comp=
ression on #1. 160 PSI. That's as far as I got before my wife came down to =
yell art me. It was already 2130 at this point. More tomorrow as I put it b=
ack together.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Thoughts? Ideas? Can the timing chain "float" at high revs? Thank-you =
in advance for any input!</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>V/r,</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Mathieu Huovinen</div>

</div>

</div>

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_______________________________________________
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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

--===============1303797020874696673==--

---

From: "van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:17:09 +0100 (CET)

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If the chain tensioner is badly worn (deep grooves) after a short time, thi=
s is a sign that the chain is moving wildly. This can happen when the chain=
 gears are not properly aligned : aligning the gears is very important and =
should be checked when a billet steel crankshaft or non original gears (Ver=
nier camshaft gear) are fitted. I don't know for the Spitfire chain tension=
er, but the TR 4 cyl tensioner does next to nothing for keeping the chain q=
uietly. Does someone know of a trick to replace this very weak tensioner wi=
th something stronger, or a tensioner that is working with the oil pressure=
?=20
Marcel=20

Van: "fot" <[email-masked]>=20
Aan: "rick parent" <[email-masked]>, "fot" <[email-masked]>=20
Verzonden: Dinsdag 26 november 2019 18:33:10=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question=20

Damned right, my 1300 small-crank has always had a single row chain, for th=
at reason, that double-row setup is heavy.=20
At 6-8 hour TBO, the chain & tensioner were routine replacement anyhow.=20
Also not all chains & tensioners are created equal, some vendors are now of=
fering quality chains as an option, and the tensioners should be plated, th=
ey last a lot longer.=20
Glen=20

-----Original Message-----=20
From: Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]>=20
To: fot <[email-masked]>; Mathieu W. Huovinen <[email-masked]>; Rob=
ert Lang <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 9:28 am=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question=20

That's about normal, why in the sam hell are you using that heavy ass doubl=
e chain set up?? Come on man get it together.=20

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 08:29:26 AM EST, Robert Lang via Fot <fot@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:=20

Hi - They usually "jump" a tooth on overrun, or at least that's my experien=
ce. Or it can happen on a backfire... I had a Pontiac with a V8 back in the=
 day. The exhaust pipe broke before the muffler, so it had a really kool ru=
mble sound. I used to take it out at night and drive exit ramps at "stupid =
speed" and then downshift the auto trans one gear to get the koolest sound.=
.. not to mention "power-off oversteer". Drift City. After one of these exc=
ursions, the engine became very hard to start. I took the car off the road =
and sold it to a friend. About a month later, he called me up all pissed of=
f and wanting his $600 back because he had to fix the timing chain.=20

Never sold a car to a friend or associate ever again.=20

;-)=20

But in addition to the new chain and tensioner, take a close look at that c=
rank gear and make sure the "troughs" don't have a burr or the points aren'=
t sharp, either would indicate wear and you don't want that.=20

I don't recall a spec for play in the chain, but you want "as little as pos=
sible". If you can get the cam gear onto the cam easily with the chain thre=
aded, that's too loose.=20

C ya,=20
Bob Lang=20

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 7:54:29 AM EST, Mathieu W. Huovinen <maddhat=
[email-masked]> wrote:=20

Bob and FOT,=20
I'm beginning to suspect a combination of a weak chain tensioner and an eng=
ine harmonic that may have caused it. Attached a pic of the play in the tim=
ing chain..about 1/2". Is that too much? If so, Ted, I'll be contacting you=
 shortly. Chain is about two years old, maybe 6 weekend s of racing on it. =
New chain tensioner from Moss should be here today and I'm interested in se=
eing the difference in spring arch between the original single chain tensio=
ner and the new TR6 double chain tensioner. Stay tuned!=20
Mathieu=20

On Monday, November 25, 2019 Robert Lang < [email-masked] > wrote:=
=20
Hi - I've seen this before. Mostly on American V8's but the principle is th=
e same... It's almost always a loose chain or worn teeth on the crank gear.=
 If the crank gear has really sharp teeth, the gear is probably worn. Note =
that this is really easy to overlook. And I've had this problem with TR6 en=
gines a couple of times. Especially if you sourced the inexpensive gears. S=
eems like the hardening of the metal is wrong on some of the parts out ther=
e.=20

ith more than 30 degrees of retard, but they ran very poorly!=20

I'd double check your crank gear for wear... actually, I'd just replace it =
along with the tensioner. Note that the current chain tensioners seem to be=
 not as good as the OEM ones as the new ones wear fairly rapidly.=20

On the plus side, at least you didn't bend a valve in the process.=20

C ya,=20
Bob Lang=20
339-927-4489=20

On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 10:38:49 PM EST, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot =
<[email-masked]> wrote:=20

Fellas,=20

Sounds like we have the bearing cap strap issue resolved...who is up for an=
other mystery? Has anyone ever has their timing chain skip a tooth??=20

n back on...about one tooth Put rockers back on and checked compression on =
#1. 160 PSI. That's as far as I got before my wife came down to yell art me=
. It was already 2130 at this point. More tomorrow as I put it back togethe=
r.=20

vance for any input!=20

V/r,=20

Mathieu Huovinen=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ]=20

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20

 ]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive  ]=
 [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
[email-masked] | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@yaho=
o.com ]=20

_______________________________________________=20
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[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20

 ]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive  ]=
 [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
@att.net | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] ]=
=20

_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ]=20

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20

 ]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive  ]=
 [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] ]=20

_______________________________________________=20
[email-masked]=20

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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>If&nbsp; the chain tensioner is ba=
dly worn (deep grooves) after a short time, this is a sign that the chain i=
s moving wildly. This can happen when the chain gears are not properly alig=
ned : aligning the gears is very important and should be checked when a bil=
let steel crankshaft or non original gears (Vernier camshaft gear) are fitt=
ed. I don't know for the Spitfire chain tensioner, but the TR 4 cyl&nbsp; t=
ensioner does next to nothing for keeping&nbsp; the chain quietly. Does som=
eone know of a trick to replace this very weak tensioner with something str=
onger, or a tensioner that is working with the oil pressure?&nbsp;</div><di=
v>Marcel</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><=
div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt=
;<br><b>Aan: </b>"rick parent" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "fot" &lt;fot@a=
utox.team.net&gt;<br><b>Verzonden: </b>Dinsdag 26 november 2019 18:33:10<br=
><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question<br></div><br><div =
data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt 'arial'=
 , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">
<div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica';font-size:10pt;color:black"=
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt 'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">

<div> <span size=3D"2" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: small;" style=3D"font-s=
ize: small;">Damned right, my 1300 small-crank has always had a single row =
chain, for that reason, that double-row setup is heavy.</span></div>

<div><span size=3D"2" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: small;" style=3D"font-si=
ze: small;">At 6-8 hour TBO, the chain &amp; tensioner were routine replace=
ment anyhow.</span></div>

<div><span size=3D"2" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: small;" style=3D"font-si=
ze: small;">Also not all chains &amp; tensioners are created equal, some ve=
ndors are now offering quality chains as an option, and the tensioners shou=
ld be plated, they last a lot longer.<br>
</span></div>

<div><span size=3D"2" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: small;" style=3D"font-si=
ze: small;">Glen<br>
</span></div>

<div><span size=3D"2" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: small;" style=3D"font-si=
ze: small;"></span><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica';font-size:10pt;color:black"=
><blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid blue;padding-left:3px">heavy as=
s double chain set up?? </blockquote></div>

<div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica';font-size:10pt;color:black"=
>-----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">

<div>
<div>

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica' , 'arial' , sans-s=
erif;font-size:16px">

       =20

       =20
        </div>

<div>
           =20

<div style=3D"font-family:'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica' , 'arial' , sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a">
               =20
               =20

<div>

<div>

               =20

               =20

               =20

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica' , 'arial' , sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px">

       =20

       =20
        </div>

<div>

<div>
           =20

<div style=3D"font-family:'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica' , 'arial' , sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a">
               =20
               =20

<div>

               =20

               =20

               =20

<div>

<div>

<div>

<hr style=3D"border-style:none;border-width:0px;min-height:1px;color:rgb( 1=
53 , 153 , 153 );background-color:rgb( 153 , 153 , 153 );width:100%;margin:=
0px 0px 9px;padding:0px"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;color:#999999">On Mo=
nday, November 25, 2019 Robert Lang &lt;<span style=3D"color:#0000a0">rober=
[email-masked]</span>&gt; wrote:</span><br clear=3D"none">

</div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica' , 'arial' , sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px">

       =20

       =20
        </div>

<div>
           =20

<div style=3D"font-family:'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica' , 'arial' , sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a">
               =20
               =20

<div>

<div>

               =20

               =20

               =20

<div>

<div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch=
:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'arial'">Fellas,

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>V/r,</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

</div>

</div>

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--===============6685245532298544748==--

---

From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:09:03 +0000 (UTC)

--===============1627886440585908185==
	boundary="----=_Part_3909564_2041981272.1574860143898"

------=_Part_3909564_2041981272.1574860143898
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Yes the alignment is another good point, misalignment can eat up a chain a=
nd set of gears quickly.The tensioner design is fine for a stock engine but=
 it's just another point where we're pushing it way beyond design limits.Id=
eally it should have a spring/oil pressure pad ala MG, Jaguar, etc.Making t=
he best of a bad situation, good quality gears and chain, and a plated tens=
ioner, will last a long time.I also polish the free end of the tensioner wh=
ere it slides on the inside of the timing cover, some have very rough sharp=
 edges and will "scrape" right through the cover.(Yeah some of you are nodd=
ing your head and laughing at memories of elusive oil leaks...)Glen
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: van.mulders.marcel <[email-masked]>
To: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Cc: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2019 7:17 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question

If=C2=A0 the chain tensioner is badly worn (deep grooves) after a short tim=
e, this is a sign that the chain is moving wildly. This can happen when the=
 chain gears are not properly aligned : aligning the gears is very importan=
t and should be checked when a billet steel crankshaft or non original gear=
s (Vernier camshaft gear) are fitted. I don't know for the Spitfire chain t=
ensioner, but the TR 4 cyl=C2=A0 tensioner does next to nothing for keeping=
=C2=A0 the chain quietly. Does someone know of a trick to replace this very=
 weak tensioner with something stronger, or a tensioner that is working wit=
h the oil pressure?=C2=A0Marcel
Van: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Aan: "rick parent" <[email-masked]>, "fot" <[email-masked]>
Verzonden: Dinsdag 26 november 2019 18:33:10
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: fot <[email-masked]>; Mathieu W. Huovinen <[email-masked]>; Rob=

C ya,Bob Lang

[email-masked]

------=_Part_3909564_2041981272.1574860143898
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes the alignment is another good point, misalignmen=
t can eat up a chain and set of gears quickly.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">The tensioner design is fine for a stock engine but i=
t's just another point where we're pushing it way beyond design limits.</fo=
nt></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Ideally it should have a spring/oil pressure pad ala =
MG, Jaguar, etc.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Making the best of a bad situation, good quality gear=
s and chain, and a plated tensioner, will last a long time.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I also polish the free end of the tensioner where it =
slides on the inside of the timing cover, some have very rough sharp edges =
and will "scrape" right through the cover.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">(Yeah some of you are nodding your head and laughing =
at memories of elusive oil leaks...)</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: van.mulders.marcel &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2019 7:17 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question<br>
<br>

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<div>If&nbsp; the chain tensioner is badly worn (deep grooves) after a shor=
t time, this is a sign that the chain is moving wildly. This can happen whe=
n the chain gears are not properly aligned : aligning the gears is very imp=
ortant and should be checked when a billet steel crankshaft or non original=
 gears (Vernier camshaft gear) are fitted. I don't know for the Spitfire ch=
ain tensioner, but the TR 4 cyl&nbsp; tensioner does next to nothing for ke=
eping&nbsp; the chain quietly. Does someone know of a trick to replace this=
 very weak tensioner with something stronger, or a tensioner that is workin=
g with the oil pressure?&nbsp;</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

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<div><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan:=
 </b>"rick parent" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "fot" &lt;[email-masked]=
t&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Dinsdag 26 november 2019 18:33:10=
<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question<=
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">

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<div> <span style=3D"font-size:small;">Damned right, my 1300 small-crank ha=
s always had a single row chain, for that reason, that double-row setup is =
heavy.</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">At 6-8 hour TBO, the chain &amp; tens=
ioner were routine replacement anyhow.</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">Also not all chains &amp; tensioners =
are created equal, some vendors are now offering quality chains as an optio=
n, and the tensioners should be plated, they last a lot longer.<br clear=3D=
"none">
</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">Glen<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>

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<div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica';font-size:10pt;color:black;=
"><blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid blue;padding-left:3px;">heavy =
ass double chain set up?? </blockquote></div>

<div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica';font-size:10pt;color:black;=
">-----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: Rick Parent via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Mathieu W. Huovinen &lt;maddhatt69@aol.=
com&gt;; Robert Lang &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 9:28 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

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<hr style=3D"border-style:none;border-width:0px;min-height:1px;color:rgb( 1=
53 , 153 , 153 );background-color:rgb( 153 , 153 , 153 );width:100%;margin:=
0px 0px 9px;padding:0px;"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;color:#999999;">On =
Monday, November 25, 2019 Robert Lang &lt;<span style=3D"color:#0000a0;">ro=
[email-masked]</span>&gt; wrote:</span><br clear=3D"none">

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<div style=3D"color:black;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch=
:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'arial';">Fellas,

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<div>V/r,</div>

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