Subject: Re: [Fot] Weird Race Weekend Question

From: "Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:55:35 +0000 (UTC)

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On Monday, November 25, 2019 Robert Lang <[email-masked]> wrote:
 Hi - I've seen this before. Mostly on American V8's but the principle is t=
he same... It's almost always a loose chain or worn teeth on the crank gear=
. If the=C2=A0 crank gear has really sharp teeth, the gear is probably worn=
. Note that this is really easy to overlook. And I've had this problem with=
 TR6 engines a couple of times. Especially if you sourced the inexpensive g=
ears. Seems like the hardening of the metal is wrong on some of the parts o=
ut there.

That said, the numbers look like you jumped more than one tooth. If the "ju=
mp" occurred on the crank end one tooth is about 17 degrees (360/21 teeth).=
 Your mention of 150ish for your lobe center sound more like more than 34 d=
egrees or retard, the progression would be (roughly) 104 - good, 121 - not =
good, 138 - bad, 155 - really bad, etc. Note that I have seen engines run w=
ith more than 30 degrees of retard, but they ran very poorly!
I'd double check your crank gear for wear... actually, I'd just replace it =
along with the tensioner. Note that the current chain tensioners seem to be=
 not as good as the OEM ones as the new ones wear fairly rapidly.
On the plus side, at least you didn't bend a valve in the process.
C ya,Bob Lang339-927-4489

    On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 10:38:49 PM EST, Mathieu W. Huovinen via =
Fot <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Fellas,
Sounds like we have the bearing cap strap issue resolved...who is up for an=
other mystery? Has anyone ever has their timing chain skip a tooth??
Final race on Saturday at the Turlkey Bowl this weekend at Summit Point. Tr=
iumph Spitfire..1296 engine. Double roller chain set. Car was running well =
all weekend, was out twice earlier that day. We leave false grid for the to=
 set up for the first lap and I begin to accelerate. All of a sudden the ca=
r just dies and I coast off the track even before turn one. On the side of =
the track I couldn't start the car. In my mind I'm thinking my perrtonix di=
stributor just took a shit. Got towed in and all I'm thinking in pertronix.=
 I swap in a points distributor and nothing. Perhaps my coil? Swap in a new=
 coil. Nothing. Plugs perhaps? Swap in a good set of NGKs. Nothing. Not eve=
n a cough out of the engine. By this time I had run down the battery from t=
rying to start it so much. At this point I was jumping the racecar battery =
from my Tundra truck battery thinking perhaps a weak spark from a shot batt=
ery. Nothing. Was getting plenty of fuel because the plugs were wet. I even=
 pulled and cleaned all the jets out of the Weber 45 DCOE just to make sure=
 I was getting correct fuel. Fuel. Air. Spark. COMPRESSION. This next day (=
this morning) I did a compression test at the track. 80/70/70/70. What the =
heck? Thats not a blown head gasket..the cam HAS to be out of timing. I spe=
nt the majority of the 5 hour drive home trying to figure it out. Got home,=
 car off trailer, straight to work. Pulled radiator, pulley, timing chain c=
over. No damage. Find TDC and put on my degree wheel. Pulled rockers and se=
t dial indicator on #1 intake. Tuned engine over to where cam sheet says wh=
ere #1 centerline is- 104 degrees after TDC while watching dial indicator. =
Went past 104 and dial was still climbing. Made it to to about 150ish degre=
es past TDC til indicator started to drop back down so I know I had went ri=
ght past the peak of the lobe. Pulled chain off carefully and rotated camsh=
aft until I found peak of lobe and moved crank back to 104 and set the chai=
n back on...about one tooth =C2=A0Put rockers back on and checked compressi=
on on #1. 160 PSI. That's as far as I got before my wife came down to yell =
art me. It was already 2130 at this point. More tomorrow as I put it back t=
ogether.=C2=A0
Thoughts? Ideas? Can the timing chain "float" at high revs? Thank-you in ad=
vance for any input!
V/r,
Mathieu Huovinen_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
@yahoo.com

 =20
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<p dir=3D"ltr"></p>
</br></br><div class=3D"device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_quote"></div><hr style=3D"b=
order:0;height:1px;color:#999;background-color:#999;width:100%;margin:0 0 9=
px 0;padding:0;"></hr><span style=3D"font-size:14px; color:#999999;">On Mon=
day, November 25, 2019 Robert Lang &#60;<span style=3D"color:#0000A0">rober=
[email-masked]</span>&#62; wrote:</span><br></br><div id=3D"yiv73871815=
45"><html><head></head><div><div class=3D"yiv7387181545ydpc7a6ebd8yahoo-sty=
le-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;=
font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi - I&#39;ve seen this before. Mostly on American=
 V8&#39;s but the principle is the same... It&#39;s almost always a loose c=
hain or worn teeth on the crank gear. If the=C2=A0 crank gear has really sh=
arp teeth, the gear is probably worn. Note that this is really easy to over=
look. And I&#39;ve had this problem with TR6 engines a couple of times. Esp=
ecially if you sourced the inexpensive gears. Seems like the hardening of t=
he metal is wrong on some of the parts out there.<br clear=3D"none"></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">That said, the nu=
mbers look like you jumped more than one tooth. If the &quot;jump&quot; occ=
urred on the crank end one tooth is about 17 degrees (360/21 teeth). Your m=
ention of 150ish for your lobe center sound more like more than 34 degrees =
or retard, the progression would be (roughly) 104 - good, 121 - not good, 1=
38 - bad, 155 - really bad, etc. Note that I have seen engines run with mor=
e than 30 degrees of retard, but they ran very poorly!</div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;d double check your crank=
 gear for wear... actually, I&#39;d just replace it along with the tensione=
r. Note that the current chain tensioners seem to be not as good as the OEM=
 ones as the new ones wear fairly rapidly.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">On the plus side, at least you didn&#39;t =
bend a valve in the process.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">C ya,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Lang</div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">339-927-4489<br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"yiv7387181545ydpc2efc1c9yahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv=
7387181545ydpc2efc1c9yahoo_quoted_5402201527">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div class=3D"yiv7387181545yqt9329820323" id=3D"yiv73871815=
45yqt39922"><div>
                    On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 10:38:49 PM EST, Mathieu =
W. Huovinen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv7387181545ydpc2efc1c9yiv0645507289">
<div style=3D"color:black;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch=
:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial;font-size-adjus=
t:none;">Fellas,
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Sounds like we have the bearing cap strap issue resolved...who is up f=
or another mystery? Has anyone ever has their timing chain skip a tooth??</=
div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Final race on Saturday at the Turlkey Bowl this weekend at Summit Poin=
t. Triumph Spitfire..1296 engine. Double roller chain set. Car was running =
well all weekend, was out twice earlier that day. We leave false grid for t=
he to set up for the first lap and I begin to accelerate. All of a sudden t=
he car just dies and I coast off the track even before turn one. On the sid=
e of the track I couldn&#39;t start the car. In my mind I&#39;m thinking my=
 perrtonix distributor just took a shit. Got towed in and all I&#39;m think=
ing in pertronix. I swap in a points distributor and nothing. Perhaps my co=
il? Swap in a new coil. Nothing. Plugs perhaps? Swap in a good set of NGKs.=
 Nothing. Not even a cough out of the engine. By this time I had run down t=
he battery from trying to start it so much. At this point I was jumping the=
 racecar battery from my Tundra truck battery thinking perhaps a weak spark=
 from a shot battery. Nothing. Was getting plenty of fuel because the plugs=
 were wet. I even pulled and cleaned all the jets out of the Weber 45 DCOE =
just to make sure I was getting correct fuel. Fuel. Air. Spark. COMPRESSION=
. This next day (this morning) I did a compression test at the track. 80/70=
/70/70. What the heck? Thats not a blown head gasket..the cam HAS to be out=
 of timing. I spent the majority of the 5 hour drive home trying to figure =
it out. Got home, car off trailer, straight to work. Pulled radiator, pulle=
y, timing chain cover. No damage. Find TDC and put on my degree wheel. Pull=
ed rockers and set dial indicator on #1 intake. Tuned engine over to where =
cam sheet says where #1 centerline is- 104 degrees after TDC while watching=
 dial indicator. Went past 104 and dial was still climbing. Made it to to a=
bout 150ish degrees past TDC til indicator started to drop back down so I k=
now I had went right past the peak of the lobe. Pulled chain off carefully =
and rotated camshaft until I found peak of lobe and moved crank back to 104=
 and set the chain back on...about one tooth =C2=A0Put rockers back on and =
checked compression on #1. 160 PSI. That&#39;s as far as I got before my wi=
fe came down to yell art me. It was already 2130 at this point. More tomorr=
ow as I put it back together.=C2=A0</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Thoughts? Ideas? Can the timing chain &quot;float&quot; at high revs? =
Thank-you in advance for any input!</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>V/r,</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div>Mathieu Huovinen</div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"non=
e"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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