Subject: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question

From: Jack Wheeler via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 17:29:24 +0000 (UTC)

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Does anyone have any experience with rebuilding the early starters, as used=
 on TR-2's and TR-3's, up to about chassis number 50,000 (the "long" starte=
rs)?=C2=A0 i took my starter to a local electrical shop a couple of months =
ago and he is stuck.=C2=A0 He can't figure out how to remove the pinion (wi=
th gear) from the shaft.=C2=A0 Is there a secret to getting the pinion off?
Or, does anyone know of any place that rebuilds these early starters, who m=
ay be able to help me with this question?=C2=A0 Or, I could send the starte=
r to them.

Thanks for any help you can give me.
Jack Wheeler

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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Does anyone have any experience with rebuild=
ing the early starters, as used on TR-2's and TR-3's, up to about chassis n=
umber 50,000 (the "long" starters)?&nbsp; i took my starter to a local elec=
trical shop a couple of months ago and he is stuck.&nbsp; He can't figure o=
ut how to remove the pinion (with gear) from the shaft.&nbsp; Is there a se=
cret to getting the pinion off?</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Or, does anyone know of a=
ny place that rebuilds these early starters, who may be able to help me wit=
h this question?&nbsp; Or, I could send the starter to them.<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D=
"false">Thanks for any help you can give me.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-set=
dir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Jack Wheeler=
<br></div></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: Jack Wheeler via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 17:35:43 +0000 (UTC)

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 I forgot to mention, the Moss part number for the starter pinion is 549-60=
0, on page 83 of the latest Moss catalog.

   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Jack Wheeler <[email-masked]=
>To: FOT List <[email-masked]>Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019, 1:29:24=
 PM EDTSubject: TR-2/3 Starter Question
 Does anyone have any experience with rebuilding the early starters, as use=
d on TR-2's and TR-3's, up to about chassis number 50,000 (the "long" start=
ers)?=C2=A0 i took my starter to a local electrical shop a couple of months=
 ago and he is stuck.=C2=A0 He can't figure out how to remove the pinion (w=
ith gear) from the shaft.=C2=A0 Is there a secret to getting the pinion off=
?
Or, does anyone know of any place that rebuilds these early starters, who m=
ay be able to help me with this question?=C2=A0 Or, I could send the starte=
r to them.

Thanks for any help you can give me.
Jack Wheeler
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpdfc8b4cbyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I forgot to mention, the Moss part number for the starter pinion is 549-600, on page 83 of the latest Moss catalog.<br></div><div><br></div>
        
        </div><div id="ydpb7f8e11ayahoo_quoted_1458675850" class="ydpb7f8e11ayahoo_quoted">
            <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                <div>----- Forwarded Message -----</div>
                <div><b>From:</b> Jack Wheeler &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</div><div><b>To:</b> FOT List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</div><div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 17, 2019, 1:29:24 PM EDT</div><div><b>Subject:</b> TR-2/3 Starter Question</div><div><br></div>
                <div><div id="ydpb7f8e11ayiv9093116136"><div><div class="ydpb7f8e11ayiv9093116136yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir="ltr">Does anyone have any experience with rebuilding the early starters, as used on TR-2's and TR-3's, up to about chassis number 50,000 (the "long" starters)?&nbsp; i took my starter to a local electrical shop a couple of months ago and he is stuck.&nbsp; He can't figure out how to remove the pinion (with gear) from the shaft.&nbsp; Is there a secret to getting the pinion off?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Or, does anyone know of any place that rebuilds these early starters, who may be able to help me with this question?&nbsp; Or, I could send the starter to them.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Thanks for any help you can give me.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jack Wheeler<br></div></div></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
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From: Randall via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 20:24:22 -0700

AFAIK (which isn't very far), 549-580 is a reproduction of the original
bonded rubber part.  Should work fine, on a stock 83mm motor.

I was talking about the improved "fail-safe" design, that I believe Ken
actually had designed and manufactured for BFE to sell.  Rather than relying
on a bond between rubber and metal, it had a series of tabs welded inside,
with polyurethane (or similar) cushions between the tabs.  Even if the poly
failed, the tabs would hit each other and still allow the engine to be
started.

The engine I was running at the time had 87mm liners, and while the target
CR was 10.5:1, I suspect it came out substantially higher somehow.  I
probably made a mistake on my math.  Anyway, I couldn't run it on pump gas,
and learned a lot about the effectiveness of various "octane improvers".  I
tore up several of those bonded rubber drives, before asking Ken if he knew
a better way.  Even tore up one of the fail-safe replacements (which Ken
replaced for free) before finally switching to a gear-drive starter.

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 

> Randall,
> Isn't the part he needs called a 'sleeve assembly' and in the 
> Moss catalogue 549-580 at $30?   It has been several years 
> but I recall buying this when I rebuilt the starter for 
> TS30766L.   Served me well after that, stock motor rebuild. 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> Cactus Jack drinks coffee black......BWS
> 
> > On Oct 17, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > 
> 
> ?It has been awhile, but I've had those early starters apart 
> many times.
> 
> In the attached diagram, you pull away the collar, A, then 
> pry the retaining ring B out of it's groove.  Then you have 
> to work retaining ring C out of the pinion barrel D.  With it 
> removed, the pinion & barrel should just slide off, exposing 
> the Bendix drive inside. 
> 
> I've not asked recently, but my FLAPS used to be able to send 
> those old starters out to be rebuilt.  Quoted turnaround was 
> 1 week, but I never tried it.  Wouldn't let me talk to the 
> rebuilder directly, though.
> 
> Frankly, I got disgusted and installed a gear-drive starter 
> instead.  After 10 years of near-daily usage, it did need new 
> bearings and the brushes were about half gone, but I still 
> think it's better.  For one thing, it doesn't have the 
> "bonded rubber" drive that seems to fail quite often trying 
> to crank a high compression engine.
> 
> BFE used to sell a "fail safe" replacement for the rubber 
> drive, but I think I got the last one many years ago and Ken 
> said he wasn't having any more made.  The current proprietor 
> of BFE probably doesn't know anything about them.
> 
> -- Randall
> 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
> 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
> 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jack 
> > Wheeler via Fot
> > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 10:29 AM
> > To: FOT List
> > Subject: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question
> > 
> > Does anyone have any experience with rebuilding the early 
> starters, as 
> > used on TR-2's and TR-3's, up to about chassis number 50,000 (the 
> > "long" starters)?  i took my starter to a local electrical shop a 
> > couple of months ago and he is stuck.
> > He can't figure out how to remove the pinion (with gear) from the 
> > shaft.  Is there a secret to getting the pinion off?
> > 
> > Or, does anyone know of any place that rebuilds these early 
> starters, 
> > who may be able to help me with this question?  Or, I could 
> send the 
> > starter to them.
> > 
> > 
> <M17 Fig 20 starter drive.jpg>
> ** [email-masked] **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  
> http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> 
> ** [email-masked] **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  
> http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

---

From: Jack Wheeler via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 21:58:42 +0000 (UTC)

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 Hi Randall.=C2=A0 Thanks again.=C2=A0 I took your exploded diagram and ins=
tructions to the guy working on my starter yesterday.=C2=A0 It looks to me =
like he is doing everything right, but it just won't come apart.=C2=A0 He's=
 reluctant to apply too much pressure, or hit it too hard with a hammer, fo=
r fear of breaking something.=C2=A0 He's removed the collar and the two ret=
aining rings, but can't slide the bendix off the shaft.=C2=A0 He's working =
with 2 starters and both are experiencing the same problem.=C2=A0 I'm wonde=
ring if it might just be a build-up of rust on the shaft, that is keeping i=
t from coming apart.=C2=A0 Do you have any experience with this?
This is getting frustration.=C2=A0 Best regards.
Jack

    On Friday, October 18, 2019, 9:32:40 AM EDT, Randall <[email-masked]=
om> wrote: =20
=20
 That's just from the workshop manual.=C2=A0 Here's the whole thing
https://drive.google.com/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkxMi00NGUzLWE=
4Nz
MtMGRkODRkYzU3MDU1

-- Randall=20
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild=20

> From: Jack Wheeler [mailto:[email-masked]]=20
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 5:40 AM
> To: Randall
> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question
>=20
> Thanks, Randall.=C2=A0 The exploded diagram will be very helpful.
>=20
> Jack
>=20
>=20
> On Thursday, October 17, 2019, 7:53:40 PM EDT, Randall=20
> <[email-masked]> wrote:=20
>=20
>=20
> It has been awhile, but I've had those early starters apart=20
> many times.
>=20
> In the attached diagram, you pull away the collar, A, then=20
> pry the retaining ring B out of it's groove.=C2=A0 Then you have=20
> to work retaining ring C out of the pinion barrel D.=C2=A0 With it=20
> removed, the pinion & barrel should just slide off, exposing=20
> the Bendix drive inside.=20
>=20
> I've not asked recently, but my FLAPS used to be able to send=20
> those old starters out to be rebuilt.=C2=A0 Quoted turnaround was=20
> 1 week, but I never tried it.=C2=A0 Wouldn't let me talk to the=20
> Frankly, I got disgusted and installed a gear-drive starter=20
> instead.=C2=A0 After 10 years of near-daily usage, it did need new=20
> bearings and the brushes were about half gone, but I still=20
> think it's better.=C2=A0 For one thing, it doesn't have the=20
> "bonded rubber" drive that seems to fail quite often trying=20
> BFE used to sell a "fail safe" replacement for the rubber=20
> drive, but I think I got the last one many years ago and Ken=20
> said he wasn't having any more made.=C2=A0 The current proprietor=20
> 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild=20
>=20
>=20
> > From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of=20
> > Jack Wheeler via Fot
> > Does anyone have any experience with rebuilding the early=20
> > starters, as used on TR-2's and TR-3's, up to about chassis=20
> > number 50,000 (the "long" starters)?=C2=A0 i took my starter to a=20
> > local electrical shop a couple of months ago and he is stuck.=20
> >=C2=A0 He can't figure out how to remove the pinion (with gear)=20
> > from the shaft.=C2=A0 Is there a secret to getting the pinion off?
> >=20
> > Or, does anyone know of any place that rebuilds these early=20
> > starters, who may be able to help me with this question?=C2=A0 Or,=20
> > I could send the starter to them.
> >=20
> >=20

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp41f1a57ayahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
3px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hi Randall.&nbsp; Thanks aga=
in.&nbsp; I took your exploded diagram and instructions to the guy working =
on my starter yesterday.&nbsp; It looks to me like he is doing everything r=
ight, but it just won't come apart.&nbsp; He's reluctant to apply too much =
pressure, or hit it too hard with a hammer, for fear of breaking something.=
&nbsp; He's removed the collar and the two retaining rings, but can't slide=
 the bendix off the shaft.&nbsp; He's working with 2 starters and both are =
experiencing the same problem.&nbsp; I'm wondering if it might just be a bu=
ild-up of rust on the shaft, that is keeping it from coming apart.&nbsp; Do=
 you have any experience with this?</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fa=
lse"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">This is getting frust=
ration.&nbsp; Best regards.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Jack<br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydpca0f5aa4yahoo_quoted_1990507168" class=3D"ydpca=
0f5aa4yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Friday, October 18, 2019, 9:32:40 AM EDT, Randall &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">That's just from the workshop manual.=
&nbsp; Here's the whole thing<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"h=
ttps://drive.google.com/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkxMi00NGUzLWE4=
Nz" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://drive.google.com/open?id=3D0=
B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkxMi00NGUzLWE4Nz</a><br clear=3D"none">MtMGRkODRk=
YzU3MDU1<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">-- Randall <br clear=3D"none"=
>56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br clear=3D"none">71 Stag LE1=
473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br clear=3D"none">71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gear=
box rebuild <br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydpca0f5aa4yqt7229676286" id=
=3D"ydpca0f5aa4yqtfd82454"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; -----Original Message---=
--<br clear=3D"none">&gt; From: Jack Wheeler [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">jwhee=
[email-masked]</a>] <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Sent: Friday, October 18, 20=
19 5:40 AM<br clear=3D"none">&gt; To: Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Subjec=
t: Re: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; Thanks, Randall.&nbsp; The exploded diagram will be very helpful.<=
br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Jack<br clear=3D"none">&gt; =
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; On Thursday, October 17, 20=
19, 7:53:40 PM EDT, Randall <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3dr=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&g=
t; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; It has been awhile, but I've had those early sta=
rters apart <br clear=3D"none">&gt; many times.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; In the attached diagram, you pull away the collar, A, t=
hen <br clear=3D"none">&gt; pry the retaining ring B out of it's groove.&nb=
sp; Then you have <br clear=3D"none">&gt; to work retaining ring C out of t=
he pinion barrel D.&nbsp; With it <br clear=3D"none">&gt; removed, the pini=
on &amp; barrel should just slide off, exposing <br clear=3D"none">&gt; the=
 Bendix drive inside. <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; I've =
not asked recently, but my FLAPS used to be able to send <br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; those old starters out to be rebuilt.&nbsp; Quoted turnaround was <br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; 1 week, but I never tried it.&nbsp; Wouldn't let me ta=
lk to the <br clear=3D"none">&gt; rebuilder directly, though.<br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Frankly, I got disgusted and installed a =
gear-drive starter <br clear=3D"none">&gt; instead.&nbsp; After 10 years of=
 near-daily usage, it did need new <br clear=3D"none">&gt; bearings and the=
 brushes were about half gone, but I still <br clear=3D"none">&gt; think it=
's better.&nbsp; For one thing, it doesn't have the <br clear=3D"none">&gt;=
 "bonded rubber" drive that seems to fail quite often trying <br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; to crank a high compression engine.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br cl=
ear=3D"none">&gt; BFE used to sell a "fail safe" replacement for the rubber=
 <br clear=3D"none">&gt; drive, but I think I got the last one many years a=
go and Ken <br clear=3D"none">&gt; said he wasn't having any more made.&nbs=
p; The current proprietor <br clear=3D"none">&gt; of BFE probably doesn't k=
now anything about them.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; -- =
Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver=
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild <br clear=3D"none">&g=
t; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; -----Original Messa=
ge-----<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; From: Fot [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; J=
ack Wheeler via Fot<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 17,=
 2019 10:29 AM<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; To: FOT List<br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; &gt; Subject: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt;=
 <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Does anyone have any experience with rebuildi=
ng the early <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; starters, as used on TR-2's and T=
R-3's, up to about chassis <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; number 50,000 (the =
"long" starters)?&nbsp; i took my starter to a <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt;=
 local electrical shop a couple of months ago and he is stuck. <br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; He can't figure out how to remove the pinion (with g=
ear) <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; from the shaft.&nbsp; Is there a secret t=
o getting the pinion off?<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&g=
t; &gt; Or, does anyone know of any place that rebuilds these early <br cle=
ar=3D"none">&gt; &gt; starters, who may be able to help me with this questi=
on?&nbsp; Or, <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; I could send the starter to them=
.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; &gt; Thanks for any help you can give me.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &g=
t; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Jack Wheeler<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; =
<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div>
            </div>
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From: Jack Wheeler via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:39:19 +0000 (UTC)

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 Hi Randall, and thanks again for your help on my starter problem... and al=
so to the others on the FOT list who have chimed in.=C2=A0 For the benefit =
of those who missed it in earli9er email strings, I've attached the explode=
d diagram you sent me.=C2=A0 I'm beginning to think I am wasting my time tr=
ying to get a good working starter out of the parts that I have.
I am working on an early (prior to 50,000) TR-2/3 starter (the one where th=
e shaft coming out of the body is covered with a cap).=C2=A0 The problem is=
 that I can't get the major components of the starter (the rubber unit asse=
mbly, and the sleeve, etc.) to slide off the shaft.=C2=A0 I have followed y=
our instructions (included below in this email string) as follows:

 "In the attached diagram, you pull away the collar, A, then=20
> > the Bendix drive inside"
I removed the collar and the retaining ring (A & B), and pryed the retainin=
g ring (C) out of the pinion barrel (D).=C2=A0 This exposes the bendix driv=
e.=C2=A0 So far, so good.=C2=A0 In order to replace the rubber unit assembl=
y (these are available), I will have to slide the bendix drive and the old =
rubber unit assembly off the shaft.=C2=A0 I thought these would just slide =
off at this point, but no, that is not the case.=C2=A0 I even tried putting=
 it in a hydraulic press and got no movement whatsoever.=C2=A0 So, there mu=
st be something else holding these items on the shaft.=C2=A0 Can anyone hel=
p me identify the missing piece?=C2=A0 Thanks to all.
Jack

    On Saturday, October 19, 2019, 9:44:04 PM EDT, Randall <[email-masked]=
.com> wrote: =20
=20
 I'm sorry, Jack, I don't.=C2=A0 Stuff doesn't rust much around here.

But if you're sure the clips are out, I would probably make up a simple
clamp to grab the barrel.=C2=A0 Just take a scrap of 2x4 lumber, maybe 6" l=
ong,
and drill a hole the same diameter as the barrel.=C2=A0 Cut through the hol=
e
lengthwise, then use a couple of bolts to clamp the two halves together ove=
r
the barrel.=C2=A0 Then you could hang that in a press, and use a brass drif=
t to
press on the end of the shaft.=C2=A0 Should get it apart, without undue dam=
age.
(But if it's rusted that badly, it may be toast anyway.)

Note that the "control nut" K has "ears" that stick through the slots in th=
e
barrel.=C2=A0 They have to slide out as it comes apart, which is why you ca=
n't
apply force on the inside end of the barrel.

-- Randall=20

> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 2:59 PM
> To: Randall
> Cc: FOT List
> Hi Randall.=C2=A0 Thanks again.=C2=A0 I took your exploded diagram and=20
> instructions to the guy working on my starter yesterday.=C2=A0 It=20
> looks to me like he is doing everything right, but it just=20
> won't come apart.=C2=A0 He's reluctant to apply too much pressure,=20
> or hit it too hard with a hammer, for fear of breaking=20
> something.=C2=A0 He's removed the collar and the two retaining=20
> rings, but can't slide the bendix off the shaft.=C2=A0 He's=20
> working with 2 starters and both are experiencing the same=20
> problem.=C2=A0 I'm wondering if it might just be a build-up of=20
> rust on the shaft, that is keeping it from coming apart.=C2=A0 Do=20
> you have any experience with this?
>=20
> On Friday, October 18, 2019, 9:32:40 AM EDT, Randall=20
> That's just from the workshop manual.=C2=A0 Here's the whole thing=20
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkx
Mi00NGUzLWE4Nz
> > > Thanks for any help you can give me.

 =20
------=_Part_6720511_7241362.1571762359281
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpdee877e6yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hi Randall, and thanks again=
 for your help on my starter problem... and also to the others on the FOT l=
ist who have chimed in.&nbsp; For the benefit of those who missed it in ear=
li9er email strings, I've attached the exploded diagram you sent me.&nbsp; =
I'm beginning to think I am wasting my time trying to get a good working st=
arter out of the parts that I have.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fa=
lse"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I am working on an ea=
rly (prior to 50,000) TR-2/3 starter (the one where the shaft coming out of=
 the body is covered with a cap).&nbsp; The problem is that I can't get the=
 major components of the starter (the rubber unit assembly, and the sleeve,=
 etc.) to slide off the shaft.&nbsp; I have followed your instructions (inc=
luded below in this email string) as follows:<br></div><div><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><div> "In the attached diagram, you pull =
away the collar, A, then <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; pry the retaining rin=
g B out of it's groove.&nbsp; Then you have <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; to=
 work retaining ring C out of the pinion barrel D.&nbsp; With it <br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; &gt; removed, the pinion &amp; barrel should just slide off,=
 exposing <br clear=3D"none"><div>&gt; &gt; the Bendix drive inside"</div><=
div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I removed the collar a=
nd the retaining ring (A &amp; B), and pryed the retaining ring (C) out of =
the pinion barrel (D).&nbsp; This exposes the bendix drive.&nbsp; So far, s=
o good.&nbsp; In order to replace the rubber unit assembly (these are avail=
able), I will have to slide the bendix drive and the old rubber unit assemb=
ly off the shaft.&nbsp; I thought these would just slide off at this point,=
 but no, that is not the case.&nbsp; I even tried putting it in a hydraulic=
 press and got no movement whatsoever.&nbsp; So, there must be something el=
se holding these items on the shaft.&nbsp; Can anyone help me identify the =
missing piece?&nbsp; Thanks to all.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fa=
lse"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Jack<br></div></div><=
div><br></div></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp1651197yahoo_quoted_2293577455" class=3D"ydp165=
1197yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, October 19, 2019, 9:44:04 PM EDT, Randall =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">I'm sorry, Jack, I don't.&nbsp; Stuff=
 doesn't rust much around here.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">But if=
 you're sure the clips are out, I would probably make up a simple<br clear=
=3D"none">clamp to grab the barrel.&nbsp; Just take a scrap of 2x4 lumber, =
maybe 6" long,<br clear=3D"none">and drill a hole the same diameter as the =
barrel.&nbsp; Cut through the hole<br clear=3D"none">lengthwise, then use a=
 couple of bolts to clamp the two halves together over<br clear=3D"none">th=
e barrel.&nbsp; Then you could hang that in a press, and use a brass drift =
to<br clear=3D"none">press on the end of the shaft.&nbsp; Should get it apa=
rt, without undue damage.<br clear=3D"none">(But if it's rusted that badly,=
 it may be toast anyway.)<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Note that th=
e "control nut" K has "ears" that stick through the slots in the<br clear=
=3D"none">barrel.&nbsp; They have to slide out as it comes apart, which is =
why you can't<br clear=3D"none">apply force on the inside end of the barrel=
.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">-- Randall <br clear=3D"none">56 TR3=
 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br clear=3D"none">71 Stag LE1473 - a=
waiting engine rebuild<br clear=3D"none">71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox reb=
uild <br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp1651197yqt3753403462" id=3D"ydp165=
1197yqtfd84441"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; -----Original Message-----<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; From: Jack Wheeler [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">jwheeler1947@yah=
oo.com</a>] <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 2:59 P=
M<br clear=3D"none">&gt; To: Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Cc: FOT List<br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question<br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Hi Randall.&nbsp; Thanks again.&nbsp; I=
 took your exploded diagram and <br clear=3D"none">&gt; instructions to the=
 guy working on my starter yesterday.&nbsp; It <br clear=3D"none">&gt; look=
s to me like he is doing everything right, but it just <br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; won't come apart.&nbsp; He's reluctant to apply too much pressure, <br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; or hit it too hard with a hammer, for fear of breaking =
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; something.&nbsp; He's removed the collar and the tw=
o retaining <br clear=3D"none">&gt; rings, but can't slide the bendix off t=
he shaft.&nbsp; He's <br clear=3D"none">&gt; working with 2 starters and bo=
th are experiencing the same <br clear=3D"none">&gt; problem.&nbsp; I'm won=
dering if it might just be a build-up of <br clear=3D"none">&gt; rust on th=
e shaft, that is keeping it from coming apart.&nbsp; Do <br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; you have any experience with this?<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; This is getting frustration.&nbsp; Best regards.<br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Jack<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; On Friday, October 18, 2019, 9:32:40 AM E=
DT, Randall <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:TR=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote: <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; That's just from the workshop manual.&nbsp; Here's the whole thi=
ng <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://drive.google.c=
om/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkx" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://drive.google.com/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkx</a><br=
 clear=3D"none">Mi00NGUzLWE4Nz<br clear=3D"none">&gt; MtMGRkODRkYzU3MDU1<br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; -- Randall<br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br clear=3D"none">&gt; 71 =
Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br clear=3D"none">&gt; 71-2-3 Stag - =
awaiting gearbox rebuild <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">&gt=
; &gt; From: Jack Wheeler [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:jwheeler=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>] <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 5:40 AM<br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; To: Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Subject: R=
e: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; &gt; Thanks, Randall.&nbsp; The exploded diagram will be very hel=
pful.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Jack<br clea=
r=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &=
gt; On Thursday, October 17, 2019, 7:53:40 PM EDT, Randall <br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br clea=
r=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &=
gt; It has been awhile, but I've had those early starters apart <br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; &gt; many times.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; &gt; In the attached diagram, you pull away the collar, A, then <b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; pry the retaining ring B out of it's groove.&nbs=
p; Then you have <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; to work retaining ring C out =
of the pinion barrel D.&nbsp; With it <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; removed,=
 the pinion &amp; barrel should just slide off, exposing <br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; &gt; the Bendix drive inside. <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; &gt; I've not asked recently, but my FLAPS used to be able t=
o send <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; those old starters out to be rebuilt.&n=
bsp; Quoted turnaround was <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 1 week, but I never=
 tried it.&nbsp; Wouldn't let me talk to the <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; r=
ebuilder directly, though.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; &gt; Frankly, I got disgusted and installed a gear-drive starter <br cl=
ear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; instead.&nbsp; After 10 years of near-daily usage, i=
t did need new <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; bearings and the brushes were a=
bout half gone, but I still <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; think it's better.=
&nbsp; For one thing, it doesn't have the <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; "bon=
ded rubber" drive that seems to fail quite often trying <br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; &gt; to crank a high compression engine.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <=
br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; BFE used to sell a "fail safe" replacement for =
the rubber <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; drive, but I think I got the last o=
ne many years ago and Ken <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; said he wasn't havin=
g any more made.&nbsp; The current proprietor <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; =
of BFE probably doesn't know anything about them.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &g=
t; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; -- Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 56 T=
R3 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 71 Sta=
g LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 71-2-3 Stag =
- awaiting gearbox rebuild <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Fot [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot-bou=
[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Jac=
k Wheeler via Fot<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October =
17, 2019 10:29 AM<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: FOT List<br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question<br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Does anyone have any e=
xperience with rebuilding the early <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; start=
ers, as used on TR-2's and TR-3's, up to about chassis <br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; &gt; &gt; number 50,000 (the "long" starters)?&nbsp; i took my starter =
to a <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; local electrical shop a couple of mo=
nths ago and he is stuck. <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; He can't =
figure out how to remove the pinion (with gear) <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt=
; &gt; from the shaft.&nbsp; Is there a secret to getting the pinion off?<b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Or, does =
anyone know of any place that rebuilds these early <br clear=3D"none">&gt; =
&gt; &gt; starters, who may be able to help me with this question?&nbsp; Or=
, <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; I could send the starter to them.<br cl=
ear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks for any help you can give me.<br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Jack Wheeler<br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></=
div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
------=_Part_6720511_7241362.1571762359281--

------=_Part_6720512_1314940818.1571762359376
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Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Starter - Exploded Diagram.jpg"
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

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------=_Part_6720512_1314940818.1571762359376--

---

From: Jack Wheeler via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 18:09:27 +0000 (UTC)

------=_Part_6755110_1220367524.1571767767652
	boundary="----=_Part_6755109_1538033995.1571767767207"

------=_Part_6755109_1538033995.1571767767207
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Attached is a picture of a page from the workshop manual dealing with the =
TR-2/3 starter drive unit.=C2=A0 I refer you to the section titled "Starter=
=C2=A0 motor drive".=C2=A0 I have completed items shown as number 1 and num=
ber 2.=C2=A0 Item 3 talks about a "peg", which my starter does not have.=C2=
=A0 In this case, it says to "Hold the squared end of the starter shaft and=
 unscrew the locating nut F".=C2=A0 However, holding the shaft, the locatin=
g nut just turns on the shaft, and nothing happens.=C2=A0 Does anyone have =
any experience with disassembling this portion of the starter drive assembl=
y?=C2=A0 If so, I would appreciate any help you can give me to get this thi=
ng apart.=C2=A0 Thanks.
Jack

>To: Randall <[email-masked]>Cc: FOT List <[email-masked]>Sent: Tu=
esday, October 22, 2019, 12:39:19 PM EDTSubject: Re: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Q=
uestion
  Hi Randall, and thanks again for your help on my starter problem... and a=
lso to the others on the FOT list who have chimed in.=C2=A0 For the benefit=
 of those who missed it in earli9er email strings, I've attached the explod=
ed diagram you sent me.=C2=A0 I'm beginning to think I am wasting my time t=
rying to get a good working starter out of the parts that I have.
I am working on an early (prior to 50,000) TR-2/3 starter (the one where th=
e shaft coming out of the body is covered with a cap).=C2=A0 The problem is=
 that I can't get the major components of the starter (the rubber unit asse=
mbly, and the sleeve, etc.) to slide off the shaft.=C2=A0 I have followed y=
our instructions (included below in this email string) as follows:

-- Randall=20

Mi00NGUzLWE4Nz
> > > Thanks for any help you can give me.

   =20
------=_Part_6755109_1538033995.1571767767207
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp7e3cff45yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Attached is a picture of a p=
age from the workshop manual dealing with the TR-2/3 starter drive unit.&nb=
sp; I refer you to the section titled "Starter&nbsp; motor drive".&nbsp; I =
have completed items shown as number 1 and number 2.&nbsp; Item 3 talks abo=
ut a "peg", which my starter does not have.&nbsp; In this case, it says to =
"Hold the squared end of the starter shaft and unscrew the locating nut F".=
&nbsp; However, holding the shaft, the locating nut just turns on the shaft=
, and nothing happens.&nbsp; Does anyone have any experience with disassemb=
ling this portion of the starter drive assembly?&nbsp; If so, I would appre=
ciate any help you can give me to get this thing apart.&nbsp; Thanks.</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setd=
ir=3D"false">Jack<br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp4238e62dyahoo_quoted_2316092105" class=3D"ydp42=
38e62dyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                <div>----- Forwarded Message -----</div>
                <div><b>From:</b> Jack Wheeler &lt;[email-masked]&g=
t;</div><div><b>To:</b> Randall &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</div><div><b>Cc=
:</b> FOT List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</div><div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, O=
ctober 22, 2019, 12:39:19 PM EDT</div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR-2/3=
 Starter Question</div><div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp4238e62dyiv5090515427"><div><div class=
=3D"ydp4238e62dyiv5090515427ydpdee877e6yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div=
        <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Randall, and thanks again for your help on my s=
tarter problem... and also to the others on the FOT list who have chimed in=
.&nbsp; For the benefit of those who missed it in earli9er email strings, I=
've attached the exploded diagram you sent me.&nbsp; I'm beginning to think=
 I am wasting my time trying to get a good working starter out of the parts=
 that I have.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">I am working on an early (prior to 50,000) TR-2/3 starter (the one where=
 the shaft coming out of the body is covered with a cap).&nbsp; The problem=
 is that I can't get the major components of the starter (the rubber unit a=
ssembly, and the sleeve, etc.) to slide off the shaft.&nbsp; I have followe=
d your instructions (included below in this email string) as follows:<br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> "In=
 the attached diagram, you pull away the collar, A, then <br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; &gt; pry the retaining ring B out of it's groove.&nbsp; Then you have=
 <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; to work retaining ring C out of the pinion ba=
rrel D.&nbsp; With it <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; removed, the pinion &amp=
; barrel should just slide off, exposing <br clear=3D"none"><div>&gt; &gt; =
the Bendix drive inside"</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">I removed the collar and the retaining ring (A &amp; B), and pryed the re=
taining ring (C) out of the pinion barrel (D).&nbsp; This exposes the bendi=
x drive.&nbsp; So far, so good.&nbsp; In order to replace the rubber unit a=
ssembly (these are available), I will have to slide the bendix drive and th=
e old rubber unit assembly off the shaft.&nbsp; I thought these would just =
slide off at this point, but no, that is not the case.&nbsp; I even tried p=
utting it in a hydraulic press and got no movement whatsoever.&nbsp; So, th=
ere must be something else holding these items on the shaft.&nbsp; Can anyo=
ne help me identify the missing piece?&nbsp; Thanks to all.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Jack<br clear=3D"none"><=
/div></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydp4238e62dyiv5090515427yqt7330923307" id=3D"yd=
p4238e62dyiv5090515427yqt48910"><div class=3D"ydp4238e62dyiv5090515427ydp16=
51197yahoo_quoted" id=3D"ydp4238e62dyiv5090515427ydp1651197yahoo_quoted_229=
3577455">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, October 19, 2019, 9:44:04 PM EDT, Randall =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">I'm sorry, Jack, I don't.&nbsp; Stuff=
 doesn't rust much around here.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">But if=
 you're sure the clips are out, I would probably make up a simple<br clear=
=3D"none">clamp to grab the barrel.&nbsp; Just take a scrap of 2x4 lumber, =
maybe 6" long,<br clear=3D"none">and drill a hole the same diameter as the =
barrel.&nbsp; Cut through the hole<br clear=3D"none">lengthwise, then use a=
 couple of bolts to clamp the two halves together over<br clear=3D"none">th=
e barrel.&nbsp; Then you could hang that in a press, and use a brass drift =
to<br clear=3D"none">press on the end of the shaft.&nbsp; Should get it apa=
rt, without undue damage.<br clear=3D"none">(But if it's rusted that badly,=
 it may be toast anyway.)<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Note that th=
e "control nut" K has "ears" that stick through the slots in the<br clear=
=3D"none">barrel.&nbsp; They have to slide out as it comes apart, which is =
why you can't<br clear=3D"none">apply force on the inside end of the barrel=
.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">-- Randall <br clear=3D"none">56 TR3=
 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br clear=3D"none">71 Stag LE1473 - a=
waiting engine rebuild<br clear=3D"none">71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox reb=
uild <br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp4238e62dyiv5090515427ydp1651197yqt=
3753403462" id=3D"ydp4238e62dyiv5090515427ydp1651197yqtfd84441"><br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; -----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">&gt; From: Jack=
 Wheeler [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 2:59 PM<br clear=3D"none">&gt; =
To: Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Cc: FOT List<br clear=3D"none">&gt; Subj=
ect: Re: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; Hi Randall.&nbsp; Thanks again.&nbsp; I took your exploded diagr=
am and <br clear=3D"none">&gt; instructions to the guy working on my starte=
r yesterday.&nbsp; It <br clear=3D"none">&gt; looks to me like he is doing =
everything right, but it just <br clear=3D"none">&gt; won't come apart.&nbs=
p; He's reluctant to apply too much pressure, <br clear=3D"none">&gt; or hi=
t it too hard with a hammer, for fear of breaking <br clear=3D"none">&gt; s=
omething.&nbsp; He's removed the collar and the two retaining <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; rings, but can't slide the bendix off the shaft.&nbsp; He's <br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; working with 2 starters and both are experiencing the s=
ame <br clear=3D"none">&gt; problem.&nbsp; I'm wondering if it might just b=
e a build-up of <br clear=3D"none">&gt; rust on the shaft, that is keeping =
it from coming apart.&nbsp; Do <br clear=3D"none">&gt; you have any experie=
nce with this?<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; This is getti=
ng frustration.&nbsp; Best regards.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; Jack<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"no=
ne">&gt; On Friday, October 18, 2019, 9:32:40 AM EDT, Randall <br clear=3D"=
none">&gt; &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D=
"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; That's just =
from the workshop manual.&nbsp; Here's the whole thing <br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://drive.google.com/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34=
OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkx" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://drive.googl=
e.com/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkx</a><br clear=3D"none">Mi00NGU=
zLWE4Nz<br clear=3D"none">&gt; MtMGRkODRkYzU3MDU1<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; -- Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; 56 TR3 TS13571L onc=
e and future daily driver<br clear=3D"none">&gt; 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting =
engine rebuild<br clear=3D"none">&gt; 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuil=
d <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &=
gt; -----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; From: Jack Wheel=
er [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] <br clear=3D"none">=
&gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 5:40 AM<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt=
; To: Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter=
 Question<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Thanks, =
Randall.&nbsp; The exploded diagram will be very helpful.<br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Jack<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; On Thursday, Octobe=
r 17, 2019, 7:53:40 PM EDT, Randall <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a sha=
pe=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; It has been awhile, =
but I've had those early starters apart <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; many t=
imes.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; In the attac=
hed diagram, you pull away the collar, A, then <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt;=
 pry the retaining ring B out of it's groove.&nbsp; Then you have <br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; &gt; to work retaining ring C out of the pinion barrel D.&nb=
sp; With it <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; removed, the pinion &amp; barrel s=
hould just slide off, exposing <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; the Bendix driv=
e inside. <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; I've no=
t asked recently, but my FLAPS used to be able to send <br clear=3D"none">&=
gt; &gt; those old starters out to be rebuilt.&nbsp; Quoted turnaround was =
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 1 week, but I never tried it.&nbsp; Wouldn't l=
et me talk to the <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; rebuilder directly, though.<=
br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; Frankly, I got dis=
gusted and installed a gear-drive starter <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; inst=
ead.&nbsp; After 10 years of near-daily usage, it did need new <br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; &gt; bearings and the brushes were about half gone, but I still=
 <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; think it's better.&nbsp; For one thing, it do=
esn't have the <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; "bonded rubber" drive that seem=
s to fail quite often trying <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; to crank a high c=
ompression engine.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt;=
 BFE used to sell a "fail safe" replacement for the rubber <br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; &gt; drive, but I think I got the last one many years ago and Ken <=
br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; said he wasn't having any more made.&nbsp; The =
current proprietor <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; of BFE probably doesn't kno=
w anything about them.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; =
&gt; -- Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future=
 daily driver<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine =
rebuild<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild =
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt=
; From: Fot [mailto:<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] On=
 Behalf Of <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Jack Wheeler via Fot<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 10:29 AM<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: FOT List<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subj=
ect: [Fot] TR-2/3 Starter Question<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br cle=
ar=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Does anyone have any experience with rebuilding =
the early <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; starters, as used on TR-2's and=
 TR-3's, up to about chassis <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; number 50,00=
0 (the "long" starters)?&nbsp; i took my starter to a <br clear=3D"none">&g=
t; &gt; &gt; local electrical shop a couple of months ago and he is stuck. =
<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; He can't figure out how to remove t=
he pinion (with gear) <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; from the shaft.&nbs=
p; Is there a secret to getting the pinion off?<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Or, does anyone know of any place t=
hat rebuilds these early <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; starters, who ma=
y be able to help me with this question?&nbsp; Or, <br clear=3D"none">&gt; =
&gt; &gt; I could send the starter to them.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt=
; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thank=
s for any help you can give me.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; Jack Wheeler<br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"non=
e">&gt; &gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div></div></div>
            </div>
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---

From: Randall via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 14:42:52 -0700

Jack, my apologies if I misunderstood your last email.  I thought you were
still trying to get the pinion & barrel off.

IIRC, on my starter, you have to push the "nut" towards the armature, and
pry out a clip that is normally trapped between it and a groove in the
shaft.

-- Randall 

> Attached is a picture of a page from the workshop manual 
> dealing with the TR-2/3 starter drive unit.  I refer you to 
> the section titled "Starter  motor drive".  I have completed 
> items shown as number 1 and number 2.  Item 3 talks about a 
> "peg", which my starter does not have.  In this case, it says 
> to "Hold the squared end of the starter shaft and unscrew the 
> locating nut F".  However, holding the shaft, the locating 
> nut just turns on the shaft, and nothing happens.  Does 
> anyone have any experience with disassembling this portion of 
> the starter drive assembly?  If so, I would appreciate any 
> help you can give me to get this thing apart.  Thanks.

---

From: Randall via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 14:47:37 -0700

PS, there is a much better scan of the workshop manual available at
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkxMi00NGUzLWE4Nz
MtMGRkODRkYzU3MDU1
Or
https://tinyurl.com/yxgdf988

As always, let me know if you find any problems, or material that should be
added.

-- Randall

---

From: Randall via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 17:59:01 -0500

--===============0270510178451822495==
	boundary="_C6926083-212A-4C70-B647-2C040644F2F4_"

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jack,

It=E2=80=99s been a long time, and my memory isn=E2=80=99t what it used to =
be.  But I think I used a length of iron water pipe, perhaps 1=E2=80=9D dia=
meter, with big notches cut in the sides.  That way, I could stand the arma=
ture up in a hydraulic press and apply as much pressure as necessary, then =
work through the notches.
A pair of =E2=80=9Cdental pick=E2=80=9D type tools let me pry the ring out =
of the groove on the shaft.  One tool to spread the ends a bit, the other t=
o pry it up along the vertical shaft.  Had to rotate it a bit and pry again=
 to work the whole thing out of the groove.  Seems like maybe I broke a cou=
ple picks when learning how, so it might be good to have extras on hand.

I=E2=80=99m away from home at the moment, or I=E2=80=99d go dig an old star=
ter out and take it apart.  Sorry.

-- Randall

From: Jack Wheeler
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2019 9:02 AM
To: Randall
Cc: FOT List
Subject: Re: [Fot] More on my TR-2/3 Starter Question

Hi again Randall.=C2=A0 Sorry to keep bothering you with this, but believe =
it or not, I still have not been able to remove the clip which holds the lo=
cating nut, sleeve, etc. on the shaft on my early TR-2/3 starter.=C2=A0 I e=
ven made up a special tool to hold down the locating nut (pressing it towar=
d the armature) to help get better access to the clip (see pictures).=C2=A0=
 I tightened the nuts on my special tool as much as I dared without breakin=
g something.=C2=A0 I can see the clip, and it rotates freely.=C2=A0 However=
, I can't get any leverage on the clip.

The last picture to the right, below, shows the gap in the clip to the righ=
t, as you face it.=C2=A0 The trouble is, I can't find anything that will ge=
t down in there to open up the clip and pop it out of the groove.=C2=A0 It =
needs to be skinny enough to get down in there, but strong enough to open u=
p the clip.=C2=A0 Do you=C2=A0 have any suggestions as to how I can get the=
 clip out of there?=C2=A0 Or, any other special tools that can be used to r=
emove the clip?=C2=A0 Thanks again for your help with this.=C2=A0 I'm stump=
ed.

Jack

On Tuesday, October 22, 2019, 5:53:13 PM EDT, Randall <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:=20

-- Randall=20

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<html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:sc=
hemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/of=
fice/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta ht=
tp-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=
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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div cla=
ss=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Jack,</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It=E2=80=99s been a long time, and m=
y memory isn=E2=80=99t what it used to be.=C2=A0 But I think I used a lengt=
h of iron water pipe, perhaps 1=E2=80=9D diameter, with big notches cut in =
the sides.=C2=A0 That way, I could stand the armature up in a hydraulic pre=
ss and apply as much pressure as necessary, then work through the notches.<=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal>A pair of =E2=80=9Cdental pick=E2=80=9D type tools =
let me pry the ring out of the groove on the shaft.=C2=A0 One tool to sprea=
d the ends a bit, the other to pry it up along the vertical shaft.=C2=A0 Ha=
d to rotate it a bit and pry again to work the whole thing out of the groov=
e.=C2=A0 Seems like maybe I broke a couple picks when learning how, so it m=
ight be good to have extras on hand.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99m away from home at the moment, or I=
=E2=80=99d go dig an old starter out and take it apart.=C2=A0 Sorry.</p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- Randall<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div style=3D'mso-eleme=
nt:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt=
 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'><b>Fro=
m: </b><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Jack Wheeler</a><br><b>Sen=
t: </b>Sunday, October 27, 2019 9:02 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:TR3=
[email-masked]">Randall</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net">FOT List</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] More on my TR-2/3 Starter =
Question</p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>H=
i again Randall.&nbsp; Sorry to keep bothering you with this, but believe i=
t or not, I still have not been able to remove the clip which holds the loc=
ating nut, sleeve, etc. on the shaft on my early TR-2/3 starter.&nbsp; I ev=
en made up a special tool to hold down the locating nut (pressing it toward=
 the armature) to help get better access to the clip (see pictures).&nbsp; =
I tightened the nuts on my special tool as much as I dared without breaking=
 something.&nbsp; I can see the clip, and it rotates freely.&nbsp; However,=
 I can't get any leverage on the clip.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-s=
erif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>The last picture=
 to the right, below, shows the gap in the clip to the right, as you face i=
t.&nbsp; The trouble is, I can't find anything that will get down in there =
to open up the clip and pop it out of the groove.&nbsp; It needs to be skin=
ny enough to get down in there, but strong enough to open up the clip.&nbsp=
; Do you&nbsp; have any suggestions as to how I can get the clip out of the=
re?&nbsp; Or, any other special tools that can be used to remove the clip?&=
nbsp; Thanks again for your help with this.&nbsp; I'm stumped.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",=
sans-serif'>Jack<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div><div id=3D"ydp3ee40e1fyahoo_quoted_2410658559"><div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helve=
tica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Tuesday, October 22, 2019, 5:53:13 PM ED=
T, Randall &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helve=
tica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sa=
ns-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-=
serif;color:#26282A'>PS, there is a much better scan of the workshop manual=
 available at<br><a href=3D"https://drive.google.com/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34Of=
fYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkxMi00NGUzLWE4Nz" target=3D"_blank">https://drive.google.com=
/open?id=3D0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkxMi00NGUzLWE4Nz</a><br>MtMGRkODRkYzU=
3MDU1<br>Or<br><a href=3D"https://tinyurl.com/yxgdf988" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://tinyurl.com/yxgdf988</a><br><br>As always, let me know if you find a=
ny problems, or material that should be<br>added.<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#2628=
2A'><br><br>-- Randall <br>56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br>=
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br>71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox =
rebuild <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></d=
iv></body></html>=

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