Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear axle toe in

From: Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 14:17:52 +0000 (UTC)

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 The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you have been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line stability as well as turn in response.
    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:  
 
 Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels have 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of the expected toe in.Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point of the trailing arms will change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go for that, unless fot members have experienced that more or less toe in are giving better results (especially turn in characteristics)Marcel_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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;"><div></div>
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you=
 have been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line=
 stability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"yahoo_quoted_0644770806" class=3D"yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.ma=
rcel--- via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv6036829781"><div><div style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;"><di=
v>Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels h=
ave 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of the e=
xpected toe in.</div><div>Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point o=
f the trailing arms will change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go f=
or that, unless fot members have experienced that more or less toe in are g=
iving better results (especially turn in characteristics)</div><div>Marcel<=
/div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br><=
a ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://=
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k">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/piperma=
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 14:44:28 +0000 (UTC)

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 I used to run a little toe out on the rear of my Spit racer, darty in a straight line or over bumps and surface imperfections but made a difference in cornering - it was if I remember about .4 sec at Blackhawk Farms

    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 09:18:20 AM CDT, Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:  

  
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp59708506yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px=
;"></div><div class=3D"ydp59708506yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: H=
elvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
        </div><div class=3D"ydp59708506yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">I used to =
run a little toe out on the rear of my Spit racer, darty in a straight line=
 or over bumps and surface imperfections but made a difference in cornering=
 - it was if I remember about .4 sec at Blackhawk Farms</div><div class=3D"=
ydp59708506yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica=
,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ydp59708506yah=
oo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-se=
rif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ydp59708506yahoo-style-wrap"=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size=
: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ydp59708506yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font=
-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydpac09cd0dyahoo_quoted" id=3D"ydpac09cd0dyahoo=
_quoted_0877896335">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 09:18:20 AM CDT, Rick Parent v=
ia Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydpac09cd0dyiv6414723387"><div><div class=
=3D"ydpac09cd0dyiv6414723387ydp206ee70fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div=
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you=
 have been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line=
 stability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydpac09cd0dyiv6414723387yahoo_quoted" id=3D"ydp=
ac09cd0dyiv6414723387yahoo_quoted_0644770806">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div class=3D"ydpac09cd0dyiv6414723387yqt4420491936" id=3D"=
ydpac09cd0dyiv6414723387yqt94262"><div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.ma=
rcel--- via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydpac09cd0dyiv6414723387"><div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:=
#000000;"><div>Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the =
rear wheels have 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) ins=
tead of the expected toe in.</div><div>Removing 1 shim on the outside suspe=
nsion point of the trailing arms will change things to 2.5mm toe in. I thin=
k I will go for that, unless fot members have experienced that more or less=
 toe in are giving better results (especially turn in characteristics)</div=
><div>Marcel</div></div></div></div>_______________________________________=
________<br clear=3D"none"><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"=
none"><br clear=3D"none"><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate=
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iv>
            </div>
        </div></div></div><div class=3D"ydpac09cd0dyqt4420491936" id=3D"ydp=
ac09cd0dyqt32717">_______________________________________________<br clear=
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From: Brian Dennis via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 14:48:54 +0000 (UTC)

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A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a =
tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe=
 out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights.=
 Rear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scr=
ubbing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my op=
inion the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for bett=
er turn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost =
as well. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=
=9D (not sure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep=
 your hands and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow=
 any crack or rut in the road.
My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension) I run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=
=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measured at the center of tire sidewall on 2=
0=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D dia wheels.=C2=A0Hope that=E2=80=
=99s helpful.Good luck,Brian=C2=A0

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:

 The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you have been r=
unning that way you should notice a difference in straight line stability a=
s well as turn in response.
    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot =
<[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels ha=
ve 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of the ex=
pected toe in.Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point of the traili=
ng arms will change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go for that, unl=
ess fot members have experienced that more or less toe in are giving better=
 results (especially turn in characteristics)Marcel________________________=
_______________________
[email-masked]

tt.net

ahoo.com

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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy>
A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a =
tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe=
 out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights.=
 Rear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scr=
ubbing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my op=
inion the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for bett=
er turn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost =
as well. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=
=9D (not sure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep=
 your hands and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow=
 any crack or rut in the road.<div><br></div><div>My hillclimb spitsix (gt6=
 suspension) I run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=E2=80=9D toe out at the fr=
ont measured at the center of tire sidewall on 20=E2=80=9D diameter tire an=
d 13=E2=80=9D dia wheels.&nbsp;</div><div>Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.</div=
><div>Good luck,</div><div>Brian&nbsp;<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://overvi=
ew.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br><br><=
p class=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715FFA; pa=
dding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Par=
ent via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=3D"iosym=
ail"><div id=3D"yiv5379700208"><div><div class=3D"yiv5379700208ydp206ee70fy=
ahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, san=
s-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you=
 have been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line=
 stability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"yiv5379700208yahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv5379700208y=
ahoo_quoted_0644770806">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div class=3D"yiv5379700208yqt2987739605" id=3D"yiv53797002=
08yqt35347"><div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.ma=
rcel--- via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv5379700208"><div><div style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;"><di=
v>Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels h=
ave 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of the e=
xpected toe in.</div><div>Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point o=
f the trailing arms will change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go f=
or that, unless fot members have experienced that more or less toe in are g=
iving better results (especially turn in characteristics)</div><div>Marcel<=
/div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br c=
lear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@auto=
x.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox.=
team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.f=
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___________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"r=
ect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"=
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From: John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 11:12:23 -0400

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I read somewhere that the toe angle varies with the position of the
trailing arm through its travel.  If you do alignment at the static point,
it is not where your trailing arm is when going around a turn.

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through =
a
> tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear t=
oe
> out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights=
.
> Rear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of
> scrubbing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in =
my
> opinion the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for
> better turn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a
> cost as well. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=
=E2=80=9D (not sure
> that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep your hands =
and grip
> on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow any crack or rut i=
n
> the road.
=E2=80=9D
> toe out at the front measured at the center of tire sidewall on 20=E2=80=
=9D
> diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D dia wheels.
> Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.
> Good luck,
> Brian
>
>
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS>
>
> On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]=
t>
> wrote:
>
> The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you have been
> running that way you should notice a difference in straight line stabilit=
y
> as well as turn in response.
>
> Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels
> have 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of th=
e
> expected toe in.
> Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point of the trailing arms will
> change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go for that, unless fot
> members have experienced that more or less toe in are giving better resul=
ts
> (especially turn in characteristics)
> Marcel
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I r=
ead somewhere that the toe angle varies with the position of the trailing a=
rm through its travel.=C2=A0 If you do alignment at the static point, it is=
 not where your trailing arm is=C2=A0when going around a turn.</div></div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun,=
 Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@aut=
ox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a =
tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe=
 out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights.=
 Rear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scr=
ubbing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my op=
inion the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for bett=
er turn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost =
as well. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=
=9D (not sure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep=
 your hands and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow=
 any crack or rut in the road.<div><br></div><div>My hillclimb spitsix (gt6=
 suspension) I run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=E2=80=9D toe out at the fr=
ont measured at the center of tire sidewall on 20=E2=80=9D diameter tire an=
d 13=E2=80=9D dia wheels.=C2=A0</div><div>Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.</div=
><div>Good luck,</div><div>Brian=C2=A0<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://overvi=
ew.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS" target=3D"_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail for i=
Phone</a><br><br><p class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yahoo-quoted-begin"=
 style=3D"font-size:15px;color:rgb(113,95,250);padding-top:15px;margin-top:=
0px">On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te:</p><blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430iosymail"><div id=3D=
"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208"><div><div class=3D"gmail-m_15226=
55942828330430yiv5379700208ydp206ee70fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><di=
v></div>
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you=
 have been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line=
 stability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_q=
uoted" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_quoted_064477080=
6">
            <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,=
Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
               =20
                <div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt29=
87739605" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt35347"><div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.ma=
rcel--- via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208"><=
div><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:=
10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div>Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I fo=
und that the rear wheels have 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front=
 to rear) instead of the expected toe in.</div><div>Removing 1 shim on the =
outside suspension point of the trailing arms will change things to 2.5mm t=
oe in. I think I will go for that, unless fot members have experienced that=
 more or less toe in are giving better results (especially turn in characte=
ristics)</div><div>Marcel</div></div></div></div>__________________________=
_____________________<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" hr=
ef=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.co=
m</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shap=
e=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">=
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t/pipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rick.pa=
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[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yqt29877=
39605" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yqt76984">_________________________=
______________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:f=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"non=
e"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">A=
rchive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"=
_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail=
/fot</a><br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"ht=
tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><b=
r clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote></=
blockquote></blockquote></div>
</div>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000006a032a058ae57ef4--

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---

From: Brad Eells via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 09:06:52 -0700

--===============0411695684596951337==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-051EAF40-6D98-4E7C-980E-2AE24FF863D7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-051EAF40-6D98-4E7C-980E-2AE24FF863D7
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Interesting that when I inquired about rear toe for the Spitfire, one of our=
 esteemed members suggested 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in as a critical setting.

I had the race shop check it as I had done nothing more than disassembled re=
built and reassembled the rear suspension as I had found it.

They found the setting at 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in. It had come off the track in 1=
976 after a very successful SCCA career set that way.

Good enough for me...

Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2019, at 8:12 AM, John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
>=20
> I read somewhere that the toe angle varies with the position of the traili=
ng arm through its travel.  If you do alignment at the static point, it is n=
ot where your trailing arm is when going around a turn.
>=20
>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:
>> A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a=
 tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe=
 out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights. R=
ear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scrubb=
ing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my opinio=
n the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for better tu=
rn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost as wel=
l. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=9D (not s=
ure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep your hands=
 and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow any crack o=
r rut in the road.
>> My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension) I run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=
=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measured at the center of tire sidewall on 20=
=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D dia wheels.=20
>> Brian=20
>> The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you have been r=
unning that way you should notice a difference in straight line stability as=
 well as turn in response.
>>=20
>> On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <f=
[email-masked]> wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels h=
ave 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of the ex=
pected toe in.
>> Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point of the trailing arms will=
 change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go for that, unless fot membe=
rs have experienced that more or less toe in are giving better results (espe=
cially turn in characteristics)
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rick.parent=
@att.net
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britracer89=
@yahoo.com
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/johnstydo@g=
mail.com
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad@gma=
il.com

--Apple-Mail-051EAF40-6D98-4E7C-980E-2AE24FF863D7
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Interesting that when I inquired about rear=
 toe for the Spitfire, one of our esteemed members suggested 1/8=E2=80=9D to=
e in as a critical setting.<div><br></div><div>I had the race shop check it a=
s I had done nothing more than disassembled rebuilt and reassembled the rear=
 suspension as I had found it.</div><div><br></div><div>They found the setti=
ng at 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in. It had come off the track in 1976 after a very su=
ccessful SCCA career set that way.</div><div><br></div><div>Good enough for m=
e...<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Brad Eells<div>Sent f=
rom my iPhone</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 9, 2019, at 8:12 AM, Jo=
hn Styduhar via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I re=
ad somewhere that the toe angle varies with the position of the trailing arm=
 through its travel.&nbsp; If you do alignment at the static point, it is no=
t where your trailing arm is&nbsp;when going around a turn.</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 9=
, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex"><div>
A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a t=
ight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe o=
ut will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights. Re=
ar toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scrubbi=
ng speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my opinion=
 the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for better tur=
n in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost as well=
. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=9D (not s=
ure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep your hands=
 and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow any crack o=
r rut in the road.<div><br></div><div>My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension) I=
 run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measured at=
 the center of tire sidewall on 20=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D di=
a wheels.&nbsp;</div><div>Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.</div><div>Good luck,<=
/div><div>Brian&nbsp;<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/=
?.src=3DiOS" target=3D"_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br><br><p=
 class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size:=
15px;color:rgb(113,95,250);padding-top:15px;margin-top:0px">On Sunday, June 9=
, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430iosymail"><div id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330=
430yiv5379700208"><div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv537970020=
8ydp206ee70fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot=
;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you h=
ave been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line st=
ability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_qu=
oted" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_quoted_0644770806"=
            <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,A=
rial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
               =20
                <div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt298=
7739605" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt35347"><div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.mar=
cel--- via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">f=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208"><d=
iv><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10=
pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div>Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found=
 that the rear wheels have 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to r=
ear) instead of the expected toe in.</div><div>Removing 1 shim on the outsid=
e suspension point of the trailing arms will change things to 2.5mm toe in. I=
 think I will go for that, unless fot members have experienced that more or l=
ess toe in are giving better results (especially turn in characteristics)</d=
iv><div>Marcel</div></div></div></div>______________________________________=
_________<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"n=
one"><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://ww=
w.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D=
"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/dona=
te.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" hr=
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/archive </a><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br cl=
ear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"=
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ear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yqt298773=
9605" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yqt76984">___________________________=
____________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><=
br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"no=
ne">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <=
a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">ht=
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t/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br c=
lear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.tea=
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><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote></div>
</div>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
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/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team=
.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>________=
_______________________________________</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:fo=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span><a=
 href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br>=
<span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">h=
ttp://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http:=
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r><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
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gmail.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote=
></div></body></html>=

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--===============0411695684596951337==--

---

From: Aaron Johnson via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 10:34:43 -0600

--===============7255158938132911338==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Not sure the dynamics of a tr4 suspension but yes, I=E2=80=99m with others, s=
pitfire 1/8 total out in front and 1/8 total in at the rear.=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2019, at 10:06 AM, Brad Eells via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
> Interesting that when I inquired about rear toe for the Spitfire, one of o=
ur esteemed members suggested 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in as a critical setting.
>=20
> I had the race shop check it as I had done nothing more than disassembled r=
ebuilt and reassembled the rear suspension as I had found it.
>=20
> They found the setting at 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in. It had come off the track i=
n 1976 after a very successful SCCA career set that way.
>=20
> Good enough for me...
>=20
> Brad Eells
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>> On Jun 9, 2019, at 8:12 AM, John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:
>>=20
>> I read somewhere that the toe angle varies with the position of the trail=
ing arm through its travel.  If you do alignment at the static point, it is n=
ot where your trailing arm is when going around a turn.
>>=20
>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot <[email-masked]=
> wrote:
>>> A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through=
 a tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear t=
oe out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights=
. Rear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scr=
ubbing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my opi=
nion the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for better=
 turn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost as w=
ell. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=9D (no=
t sure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep your ha=
nds and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow any crac=
k or rut in the road.
>>>=20
>>> My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension) I run zero toe at the rear and 1/1=
6=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measured at the center of tire sidewall on 2=
0=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D dia wheels.=20
>>> On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]=
et> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you have been=
 running that way you should notice a difference in straight line stability a=
s well as turn in response.
>>>=20
>>> On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <=
>>> Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point of the trailing arms wil=
l change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go for that, unless fot memb=
ers have experienced that more or less toe in are giving better results (esp=
ecially turn in characteristics)
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=

>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rick.paren=
[email-masked]
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=

>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britracer8=
[email-masked]
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=

>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/johnstydo@=
gmail.com
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad@gm=
ail.com
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mail.com

--Apple-Mail-9667AC53-3DD3-4E76-A11F-971BD27A3C52
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Not sure the dynamics of a tr4 suspension b=
ut yes, I=E2=80=99m with others, spitfire 1/8 total out in front and 1/8 tot=
al in at the rear.&nbsp;<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">S=
ent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 9, 2019, at 10:06 AM, Br=
ad Eells via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><me=
ta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Intere=
sting that when I inquired about rear toe for the Spitfire, one of our estee=
med members suggested 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in as a critical setting.<div><br></d=
iv><div>I had the race shop check it as I had done nothing more than disasse=
mbled rebuilt and reassembled the rear suspension as I had found it.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>They found the setting at 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in. It had come=
 off the track in 1976 after a very successful SCCA career set that way.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Good enough for me...<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSigna=
ture" dir=3D"ltr">Brad Eells<div>Sent from my iPhone</div></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br>On Jun 9, 2019, at 8:12 AM, John Styduhar via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small">I read somewhere that the toe angle varie=
s with the position of the trailing arm through its travel.&nbsp; If you do a=
lignment at the static point, it is not where your trailing arm is&nbsp;when=
 going around a turn.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fo=
t &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a t=
ight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe o=
ut will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights. Re=
ar toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scrubbi=
ng speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my opinion=
 the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for better tur=
n in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost as well=
. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=9D (not s=
ure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep your hands=
 and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow any crack o=
r rut in the road.<div><br></div><div>My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension) I=
 run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measured at=
 the center of tire sidewall on 20=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D di=
a wheels.&nbsp;</div><div>Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.</div><div>Good luck,<=
/div><div>Brian&nbsp;<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/=
?.src=3DiOS" target=3D"_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br><br><p=
 class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size:=
15px;color:rgb(113,95,250);padding-top:15px;margin-top:0px">On Sunday, June 9=
, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430iosymail"><div id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330=
430yiv5379700208"><div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv537970020=
8ydp206ee70fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot=
;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you h=
ave been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line st=
ability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_qu=
oted" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_quoted_0644770806"=
kquote></div>
></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>_=
______________________________________________</span><br><span><a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><=
span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></sp=
an><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.=
html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a></s=
pan><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/fot/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/h=
[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></=
blockquote></body></html>=

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---

From: "van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:12:05 +0200 (CEST)

--===============5526401304731131528==
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I believe the outer wheel(raising) is gaining toe in and the inner wheel (d=
ropping) is going in the direction of toe out : that should be favourable o=
n turning in.=20
Marcel=20

Van: "John Styduhar" <[email-masked]>=20
Aan: "Brian Dennis" <[email-masked]>=20
Cc: "Rick Parent" <[email-masked]>, "fot" <[email-masked]>, "van m=
ulders marcel" <[email-masked]>=20
Verzonden: Zondag 9 juni 2019 17:12:23=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Rear axle toe in=20

I read somewhere that the toe angle varies with the position of the trailin=
g arm through its travel. If you do alignment at the static point, it is no=
t where your trailing arm is when going around a turn.=20

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot < [ mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net | [email-masked] ] > wrote:=20

 any crack or rut in the road.=20
Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.=20
Good luck,=20
Brian=20

[ https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS | Sent from Yahoo Mail for iP=
hone ]=20

On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot < [ mailto:fot@autox=
.team.net | [email-masked] ] > wrote:=20
BQ_BEGIN

The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you have been ru=
nning that way you should notice a difference in straight line stability as=
 well as turn in response.=20

On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot < [ =
mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote:=20

Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels hav=
e 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of the exp=
ected toe in.=20
Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point of the trailing arms will c=
hange things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go for that, unless fot member=
s have experienced that more or less toe in are giving better results (espe=
cially turn in characteristics)=20
Marcel=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ]=20

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20

 ]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive  ]=
 [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
@att.net | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] ]=
=20

_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ]=20

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20

 ]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive  ]=
 [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
@yahoo.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
m ]=20

BQ_BEGIN

BQ_END

_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ]=20

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20

 ]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage | http://www.team.net=
/pipermail/fot
[email-masked] | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
 ]=20

BQ_END

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>I believe the outer wheel(raising)=
 is gaining toe in&nbsp; and the inner wheel (dropping) is going in the dir=
ection of toe out : that should be favourable on turning in.</div><div>Marc=
el</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div da=
ta-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"John Styduhar" &lt;[email-masked]=
om&gt;<br><b>Aan: </b>"Brian Dennis" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc=
: </b>"Rick Parent" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "fot" &lt;[email-masked]=
et&gt;, "van mulders marcel" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Ve=
rzonden: </b>Zondag 9 juni 2019 17:12:23<br><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] Rea=
r axle toe in<br></div><br><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I read somewhe=
re that the toe angle varies with the position of the trailing arm through =
its travel.&nbsp; If you do alignment at the static point, it is not where =
your trailing arm is&nbsp;when going around a turn.</div></div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 9, 201=
9 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a =
tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe=
 out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights.=
 Rear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scr=
ubbing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my op=
inion the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for bett=
er turn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost =
as well. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=
=9D (not sure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep=
 your hands and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow=
 any crack or rut in the road.<br><div>My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension=
) I run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measure=
d at the center of tire sidewall on 20=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=
=9D dia wheels.&nbsp;</div><div>Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.</div><div>Good=
 luck,</div><div>Brian&nbsp;<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://overview.mail.ya=
hoo.com/?.src=3DiOS" target=3D"_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><=
br><br><p class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"=
font-size:15px;color:rgb(113,95,250);padding-top:15px;margin-top:0px">On Su=
nday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</p><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430iosymail"><div id=3D"gmail-m_1=
522655942828330430yiv5379700208"><div><div class=3D"gmail-m_152265594282833=
0430yiv5379700208ydp206ee70fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you=
 have been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line=
 stability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_q=
uoted" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_quoted_064477080=
6">
            <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,=
Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
               =20
                <div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt29=
87739605" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt35347"><div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.ma=
rcel--- via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
                </div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>
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