Subject: Re: [Fot] clutch question

From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:27:20 +0000 (UTC)

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 Yes that stack-up wear can add up.Having changed many hundreds of these cl=
utches over the last 50 years, aside from hydraulic issues and normal wear =
and crappy aftermarket release bearings, the most common problem that I see=
 is the broken clutch fork bolt.It shears and then the fork rotates on the =
shaft a bit and wedges itself tight, and then requires extra pushrod travel=
 to compensate.When all is fitted, the external release arm is pretty much =
vertical, if it's trailing aft a noticeable amount, the bolt is likely shea=
red.Glen

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Robert Lang <[email-masked]>
Cc: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2019 2:49 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] clutch question

The TR6 has a reputed problem : the wear in the parts that are operating th=
e clutch can add up in a considerable loss of travel of that=C2=A0 cylinder=
 : suspension of the clutch pedal(shaft/hole), pedal to MC push rod, slave =
cylinder push rod to cross shaft, cross shaft to gearbox case.Marcel
Van: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Aan: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Verzonden: Zaterdag 1 juni 2019 23:24:23
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] clutch question

Hi,
I have a bum c/r tranny, so I figured I'd swap in a stock box just to run w=
hile I figure out the problem with the c/r box. Due to the differences with=
 the input shaft, I had to switch to from the 21 spline clutch disk to the =
stock 10 spline disk. I have done this a couple of times in the past due to=
 "pesky layshaft thrust washers" Both clutch disks measure to within .010 t=
hickness. I bolt everything up and verify via the clutch cross shaft approx=
. 1/2 inch of travel, which is normal. In neutral, the output flange spins =
freely. If I try to put the tranny in any gear and push the clutch pedal to=
 the floor and try to spin the output flange by hand, it's locked. The clut=
ch is not releasing.
I've measured everything a few times looking for anything that looks amiss =
and so for, nothing seems to be an indication of why the clutch won't relea=
se.=20

Just to be sure that things are free in the bellhousing, I used a pipe on t=
he cross shaft arm and slowly applied pressure and the clutch DOES release =
so the indication is that I either have mechanical sloppyness or insufficie=
nt hydraulic linear motion. I verified that the pivots have no slop and non=
e of the pivot holes are egged out. I did find the pin to the pivot arm was=
 slightly worn, so I threw in a 5/16 bolt to take up slack there, but that =
was to no avail.
In the process, I have tried switching in two different transmissions and s=
everal combinations of clutch disks and pressure plates and to this point t=
he clutch will not release when using the clutch pedal but will release as =
described above when using a pipe on the pivot arm.
I plan to re-install the original gear box (and the proper clutch disk) at =
some point just to see if the problem is resolved but I have no idea if tha=
t will work or not. I guess I just have to try and see. But to be honest, d=
oing around 8 transmission swaps in 12 hours is fairly physical not to ment=
ion the challenge due to the roll cage. But that's just me being a wimp. ;-=
) I mean, I could have used that time to actually FIX the C/R transmission =
- right?

All this is more or less a long way of asking - are there any documented me=
asurements for things like the "finger height of the pressure plate measure=
d to the clutch disk" or the height measure from the rear engine plate inte=
rface to the clutch fork pin? I bolted several PP's to a spare flywheel and=
 came up with "around 1 inch" when the PP is bolted down, but that doesn't =
tell me anything like how far the fingers have to depress to open the clutc=
h up. As I mentioned earlier, 1/2" of lever motion usually is adequate, so =
think that part of the system is correct.
In any case, I'm confused and puzzled by this case not to mention slightly =
bummed because I had to miss some lapping at Lime Rock because the car isn'=
t in a running state right now. I thought about pinging "Click and Clack" a=
nd posing this as a "puzzlah", but decided not to. I also know that the sol=
ution should be obvious, but to this point is alluding me. So I need a kick=
 in the right direction.
TIA,Bob Lang339-927-4489

_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
[email-masked]
_______________________________________________
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m

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes that stack-up wear can add up.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Having changed many hundreds of these clutches over t=
he last 50 years, aside from hydraulic issues and normal wear and crappy af=
termarket release bearings, the most common problem that I see is the broke=
n clutch fork bolt.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">It shears and then the fork rotates on the shaft a bi=
t and wedges itself tight, and then requires extra pushrod travel to compen=
sate.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">When all is fitted, the external release arm is prett=
y much vertical, if it's trailing aft a noticeable amount, the bolt is like=
ly sheared.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Robert Lang &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2019 2:49 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] clutch question<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv8563659890">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
0pt;color:#000000;">
<div>The TR6 has a reputed problem : the wear in the parts that are operati=
ng the clutch can add up in a considerable loss of travel of that&nbsp; cyl=
inder : suspension of the clutch pedal(shaft/hole), pedal to MC push rod, s=
lave cylinder push rod to cross shaft, cross shaft to gearbox case.</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<hr id=3D"yiv8563659890zwchr">
<div class=3D"yiv8563659890yqt4668506616" id=3D"yiv8563659890yqt92313">
<div><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan:=
 </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Z=
aterdag 1 juni 2019 23:24:23<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] =
clutch question<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv8563659890yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica=
 Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div>Hi,</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>I have a bum c/r tranny, so I figured I'd swap in a stock box just to =
run while I figure out the problem with the c/r box. Due to the differences=
 with the input shaft, I had to switch to from the 21 spline clutch disk to=
 the stock 10 spline disk. I have done this a couple of times in the past d=
ue to "pesky layshaft thrust washers" Both clutch disks measure to within .=
010 thickness. I bolt everything up and verify via the clutch cross shaft a=
pprox. 1/2 inch of travel, which is normal. In neutral, the output flange s=
pins freely. If I try to put the tranny in any gear and push the clutch ped=
al to the floor and try to spin the output flange by hand, it's locked. The=
 clutch is not releasing.</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>I've measured everything a few times looking for anything that looks a=
miss and so for, nothing seems to be an indication of why the clutch won't =
release. <br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>Just to be sure that things are free in the bellhousing, I used a pipe=
 on the cross shaft arm and slowly applied pressure and the clutch DOES rel=
ease so the indication is that I either have mechanical sloppyness or insuf=
ficient hydraulic linear motion. I verified that the pivots have no slop an=
d none of the pivot holes are egged out. I did find the pin to the pivot ar=
m was slightly worn, so I threw in a 5/16 bolt to take up slack there, but =
that was to no avail.</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>In the process, I have tried switching in two different transmissions =
and several combinations of clutch disks and pressure plates and to this po=
int the clutch will not release when using the clutch pedal but will releas=
e as described above when using a pipe on the pivot arm.</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>I plan to re-install the original gear box (and the proper clutch disk=
) at some point just to see if the problem is resolved but I have no idea i=
f that will work or not. I guess I just have to try and see. But to be hone=
st, doing around 8 transmission swaps in 12 hours is fairly physical not to=
 mention the challenge due to the roll cage. But that's just me being a wim=
p. ;-) I mean, I could have used that time to actually FIX the C/R transmis=
sion - right?<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>All this is more or less a long way of asking - are there any document=
ed measurements for things like the "finger height of the pressure plate me=
asured to the clutch disk" or the height measure from the rear engine plate=
 interface to the clutch fork pin? I bolted several PP's to a spare flywhee=
l and came up with "around 1 inch" when the PP is bolted down, but that doe=
sn't tell me anything like how far the fingers have to depress to open the =
clutch up. As I mentioned earlier, 1/2" of lever motion usually is adequate=
, so think that part of the system is correct.</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>In any case, I'm confused and puzzled by this case not to mention slig=
htly bummed because I had to miss some lapping at Lime Rock because the car=
 isn't in a running state right now. I thought about pinging "Click and Cla=
ck" and posing this as a "puzzlah", but decided not to. I also know that th=
e solution should be obvious, but to this point is alluding me. So I need a=
 kick in the right direction.</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>TIA,</div>

<div>Bob Lang</div>

<div>339-927-4489<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
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ear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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