Subject: Re: [Fot] clutch question

From: Robert Lang via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 21:24:23 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi,
I have a bum c/r tranny, so I figured I'd swap in a stock box just to run while I figure out the problem with the c/r box. Due to the differences with the input shaft, I had to switch to from the 21 spline clutch disk to the stock 10 spline disk. I have done this a couple of times in the past due to "pesky layshaft thrust washers" Both clutch disks measure to within .010 thickness. I bolt everything up and verify via the clutch cross shaft approx. 1/2 inch of travel, which is normal. In neutral, the output flange spins freely. If I try to put the tranny in any gear and push the clutch pedal to the floor and try to spin the output flange by hand, it's locked. The clutch is not releasing.
I've measured everything a few times looking for anything that looks amiss and so for, nothing seems to be an indication of why the clutch won't release. 

Just to be sure that things are free in the bellhousing, I used a pipe on the cross shaft arm and slowly applied pressure and the clutch DOES release so the indication is that I either have mechanical sloppyness or insufficient hydraulic linear motion. I verified that the pivots have no slop and none of the pivot holes are egged out. I did find the pin to the pivot arm was slightly worn, so I threw in a 5/16 bolt to take up slack there, but that was to no avail.
In the process, I have tried switching in two different transmissions and several combinations of clutch disks and pressure plates and to this point the clutch will not release when using the clutch pedal but will release as described above when using a pipe on the pivot arm.
I plan to re-install the original gear box (and the proper clutch disk) at some point just to see if the problem is resolved but I have no idea if that will work or not. I guess I just have to try and see. But to be honest, doing around 8 transmission swaps in 12 hours is fairly physical not to mention the challenge due to the roll cage. But that's just me being a wimp. ;-) I mean, I could have used that time to actually FIX the C/R transmission - right?

All this is more or less a long way of asking - are there any documented measurements for things like the "finger height of the pressure plate measured to the clutch disk" or the height measure from the rear engine plate interface to the clutch fork pin? I bolted several PP's to a spare flywheel and came up with "around 1 inch" when the PP is bolted down, but that doesn't tell me anything like how far the fingers have to depress to open the clutch up. As I mentioned earlier, 1/2" of lever motion usually is adequate, so think that part of the system is correct.
In any case, I'm confused and puzzled by this case not to mention slightly bummed because I had to miss some lapping at Lime Rock because the car isn't in a running state right now. I thought about pinging "Click and Clack" and posing this as a "puzzlah", but decided not to. I also know that the solution should be obvious, but to this point is alluding me. So I need a kick in the right direction.
TIA,Bob Lang339-927-4489

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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div>Hi,</=
div><div><br></div><div>I have a bum c/r tranny, so I figured I'd swap in a=
 stock box just to run while I figure out the problem with the c/r box. Due=
 to the differences with the input shaft, I had to switch to from the 21 sp=
line clutch disk to the stock 10 spline disk. I have done this a couple of =
times in the past due to "pesky layshaft thrust washers" Both clutch disks =
measure to within .010 thickness. I bolt everything up and verify via the c=
lutch cross shaft approx. 1/2 inch of travel, which is normal. In neutral, =
the output flange spins freely. If I try to put the tranny in any gear and =
push the clutch pedal to the floor and try to spin the output flange by han=
d, it's locked. The clutch is not releasing.</div><div><br></div><div>I've =
measured everything a few times looking for anything that looks amiss and s=
o for, nothing seems to be an indication of why the clutch won't release. <=
br></div><div><br></div><div>Just to be sure that things are free in the be=
llhousing, I used a pipe on the cross shaft arm and slowly applied pressure=
 and the clutch DOES release so the indication is that I either have mechan=
ical sloppyness or insufficient hydraulic linear motion. I verified that th=
e pivots have no slop and none of the pivot holes are egged out. I did find=
 the pin to the pivot arm was slightly worn, so I threw in a 5/16 bolt to t=
ake up slack there, but that was to no avail.</div><div><br></div><div>In t=
he process, I have tried switching in two different transmissions and sever=
al combinations of clutch disks and pressure plates and to this point the c=
lutch will not release when using the clutch pedal but will release as desc=
ribed above when using a pipe on the pivot arm.</div><div><br></div><div>I =
plan to re-install the original gear box (and the proper clutch disk) at so=
me point just to see if the problem is resolved but I have no idea if that =
will work or not. I guess I just have to try and see. But to be honest, doi=
ng around 8 transmission swaps in 12 hours is fairly physical not to mentio=
n the challenge due to the roll cage. But that's just me being a wimp. ;-) =
I mean, I could have used that time to actually FIX the C/R transmission - =
right?<br></div><div><br></div><div>All this is more or less a long way of =
asking - are there any documented measurements for things like the "finger =
height of the pressure plate measured to the clutch disk" or the height mea=
sure from the rear engine plate interface to the clutch fork pin? I bolted =
several PP's to a spare flywheel and came up with "around 1 inch" when the =
PP is bolted down, but that doesn't tell me anything like how far the finge=
rs have to depress to open the clutch up. As I mentioned earlier, 1/2" of l=
ever motion usually is adequate, so think that part of the system is correc=
t.</div><div><br></div><div>In any case, I'm confused and puzzled by this c=
ase not to mention slightly bummed because I had to miss some lapping at Li=
me Rock because the car isn't in a running state right now. I thought about=
 pinging "Click and Clack" and posing this as a "puzzlah", but decided not =
to. I also know that the solution should be obvious, but to this point is a=
lluding me. So I need a kick in the right direction.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>TIA,</div><div>Bob Lang</div><div>339-927-4489<br></div></div></body></h=
tml>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: Robert Lang via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 22:37:07 +0000 (UTC)

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 Hi,
This is a TR6. The hydraulics have been bled 4 times, flushed AND the slave=
 replaced, no difference in the behavior. I get 1/2 inch of travel at the s=
lave to the cross-fork arm.
I even tried using the upper hole in the clutch arm in case I was "just a s=
kosh" short of enough motion. No difference.
Seriously, I am puzzled by this.
Oh, and I did try an adjustable push rod.
I need to order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC. With all the spares I seem=
 to have, I don't have any Tilton rebuild kits. SHOCKING!
I'm now going through the tranny to see if I can make it functional and jus=
t put that back in. Yikes.
Between THU and FRI this week, I did EIGHT tranny and clutch swaps. That's =
some physical workout.
Zzzzzzzz
rml

    On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mary Hodgson <stlny=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 #yiv9371996543 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Bob- From what you describ=
e, it sounds like a hydraulic malady.=C2=A0 Adjustable pushrod on the slave=
?=C2=A0 Air in the system?=C2=A0 I'm assuming this is big TR, not Spit.Fred=
 Hodgson
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpbf8deacayahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>This is a TR6. The hydraulics have been bled 4 times, flushed AND the slave replaced, no difference in the behavior. I get 1/2 inch of travel at the slave to the cross-fork arm.</div><div><br></div><div>I even tried using the upper hole in the clutch arm in case I was "just a skosh" short of enough motion. No difference.</div><div><br></div><div>Seriously, I am puzzled by this.</div><div><br></div><div>Oh, and I did try an adjustable push rod.</div><div><br></div><div>I need to order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC. With all the spares I seem to have, I don't have any Tilton rebuild kits. SHOCKING!</div><div><br></div><div>I'm now going through the tranny to see if I can make it functional and just put that back in. Yikes.</div><div><br></div><div>Between THU and FRI this week, I did EIGHT tranny and clutch swaps. That's some physical workout.</div><div><br></div><div>Zzzzzzzz</div><div><br></div><div>rml<br></div><div><br></div>
        
        </div><div id="yahoo_quoted_0220874630" class="yahoo_quoted">
            <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                
                <div>
                    On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mary Hodgson &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id="yiv9371996543"><div class="yiv9371996543yqt7551845793" id="yiv9371996543yqtfd15229"><style type="text/css">#yiv9371996543 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="yiv9371996543yqt7551845793" id="yiv9371996543yqtfd47165">
<div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
Bob- </div></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
>From what you describe, it sounds like a hydraulic malady.&nbsp; Adjustable pushrod on the slave?&nbsp; Air in the system?&nbsp; I'm assuming this is big TR, not Spit.</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
Fred Hodgson<div class="yiv9371996543yqt7551845793" id="yiv9371996543yqtfd05504"><br clear="none">
</div></div><div class="yiv9371996543yqt7551845793" id="yiv9371996543yqtfd16032">
</div></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
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From: Brian Schirano via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:51:24 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi
We had this problem when we R & R'd a TR6 trans a couple years ago coincidi=
ng with swapping hydraulics while sorting the problem. Turns out the clutch=
 was being over thrown, must of gotten a long throw master or something. di=
scovered this by accident.  =20
   - =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Dump the clutch to the floor, could not shift
   - =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Put the clutch pedal halfway down gave me proper disenga=
gement etc, and releasing the clutch, no slippage.
   - =C2=A0 =C2=A0 short term fix now in place three years, welded an adjus=
table stop to the clutch pedal limiting the throw so as to not overthrow th=
e PP

Try thatGood luckBrian

26A GT6+, 28 TR6
Brian Schirano
585-305-0349 Cell=C2=A0
[email-masked]=20

    On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:52:50 PM EDT, Robert Lang via Fot <fot@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
  Hi,

    On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mary Hodgson <stlny=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Bob- From what you describe, it sounds like a hydraulic malady.=C2=A0 Adju=
stable pushrod on the slave?=C2=A0 Air in the system?=C2=A0 I'm assuming th=
is is big TR, not Spit.Fred Hodgson
  _______________________________________________
[email-masked]

oo.com

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp1b838e04yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D""><div style=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york,=
 times, serif; font-size: 16px;">Hi</div><div style=3D"font-family: times n=
ew roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></div><div style=3D=
"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;">We=
 had this problem when we R &amp; R'd a TR6 trans a couple years ago coinci=
ding with swapping hydraulics while sorting the problem. Turns out the clut=
ch was being over thrown, must of gotten a long throw master or something. =
discovered this by accident.</div><div style=3D""><ul style=3D"font-family:=
 times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"><li>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;Dump the clutch to the floor, could not shift</li><li>&nbsp; &=
nbsp; Put the clutch pedal halfway down gave me proper disengagement etc, a=
nd releasing the clutch, no slippage.</li><li>&nbsp; &nbsp; short term fix =
now in place three years, welded an adjustable stop to the clutch pedal lim=
iting the throw so as to not overthrow the PP</li></ul><div style=3D""><br>=
</div>Try that</div><div style=3D"">Good luck</div><div style=3D"">Brian<br=
><br>26A GT6+, 28 TR6<br></div><div class=3D"ydp1b838e04signature" style=3D=
"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;">Br=
ian Schirano<br>585-305-0349 Cell&nbsp;<br>[email-masked]</div></div>
        <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
 font-size: 16px;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, ne=
w york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp7249d7c7yahoo_quoted_0176005087" class=3D"ydp72=
49d7c7yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:52:50 PM EDT, Robert Lang =
via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997"><div><div class=
=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997ydpbf8deacayahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div=
        <div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>This is a TR6. The hydraulics hav=
e been bled 4 times, flushed AND the slave replaced, no difference in the b=
ehavior. I get 1/2 inch of travel at the slave to the cross-fork arm.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>I even tried using the upper hole in the clutch arm in =
case I was "just a skosh" short of enough motion. No difference.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Seriously, I am puzzled by this.</div><div><br></div><div>Oh=
, and I did try an adjustable push rod.</div><div><br></div><div>I need to =
order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC. With all the spares I seem to have, =
I don't have any Tilton rebuild kits. SHOCKING!</div><div><br></div><div>I'=
m now going through the tranny to see if I can make it functional and just =
put that back in. Yikes.</div><div><br></div><div>Between THU and FRI this =
week, I did EIGHT tranny and clutch swaps. That's some physical workout.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Zzzzzzzz</div><div><br></div><div>rml<br></div><div>=
<br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yahoo_quoted_0220874630" c=
lass=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mar=
y Hodgson &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997"><div class=3D"ydp=
7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqt7551845793" id=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqtfd1522=
9"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqt75518457=
93" id=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqtfd47165">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif=
;font-size:12pt;">
Bob- </div></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif=
;font-size:12pt;">
>From what you describe, it sounds like a hydraulic malady.&nbsp; Adjustable=
 pushrod on the slave?&nbsp; Air in the system?&nbsp; I'm assuming this is =
big TR, not Spit.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif=
;font-size:12pt;">
Fred Hodgson<div class=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqt7551845793" id=3D"ydp7=
249d7c7yiv8858811997yqtfd05504"><br clear=3D"none">
</div></div><div class=3D"ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqt7551845793" id=3D"ydp7=
249d7c7yiv8858811997yqtfd16032">
</div></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div>_______________________________________________<b=
r><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a=
 href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank=
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eam.net/archive " rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/=
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From: David Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 10:01:05 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi Bob,

I was thinking about the Tilton dual clutch setup my 4 has; the snout is a =
different length that holds the input shaft seal. =C2=A0 Didn=E2=80=99t rea=
lize it until I swapped transmissions and the clutch wouldn=E2=80=99t disen=
gage. =C2=A0Pulled the trans again, and then noticed that the snout on the =
former working setup was machines down for my clutch/flywheel/pressure plat=
e setup. =C2=A0=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99m sure you thought of those things, too, but my symptoms matched =
what you describe.

Hope that provides another clue!
Dave Gott

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:37 PM, Robert Lang via Fot <[email-masked]=
> wrote:

 Hi,

 #yiv5011764308 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Bob- From what you describ=

hoo.com

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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy>
Hi Bob,<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I was thinking about the Tilton d=
ual clutch setup my 4 has; the snout is a different length that holds the i=
nput shaft seal. &nbsp; Didn=E2=80=99t realize it until I swapped transmiss=
ions and the clutch wouldn=E2=80=99t disengage. &nbsp;Pulled the trans agai=
n, and then noticed that the snout on the former working setup was machines=
 down for my clutch/flywheel/pressure plate setup. &nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><=
br></div><div>I=E2=80=99m sure you thought of those things, too, but my sym=
ptoms matched what you describe.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Ho=
pe that provides another clue!</div><div><br></div><div>Dave Gott<br><br><b=
r><a href=3D"https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo M=
ail for iPhone</a><br><br><p class=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-siz=
e: 15px; color: #715FFA; padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Saturday, Jun=
e 1, 2019, 6:37 PM, Robert Lang via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</=
p><blockquote class=3D"iosymail"><div id=3D"yiv5011764308"><div><div class=
=3D"yiv5011764308ydpbf8deacayahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetic=
a Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>This is a TR6. The hydraulics hav=
e been bled 4 times, flushed AND the slave replaced, no difference in the b=
ehavior. I get 1/2 inch of travel at the slave to the cross-fork arm.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>I even tried using the upper hole in the clutch arm in =
case I was "just a skosh" short of enough motion. No difference.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Seriously, I am puzzled by this.</div><div><br></div><div>Oh=
, and I did try an adjustable push rod.</div><div><br></div><div>I need to =
order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC. With all the spares I seem to have, =
I don't have any Tilton rebuild kits. SHOCKING!</div><div><br></div><div>I'=
m now going through the tranny to see if I can make it functional and just =
put that back in. Yikes.</div><div><br></div><div>Between THU and FRI this =
week, I did EIGHT tranny and clutch swaps. That's some physical workout.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Zzzzzzzz</div><div><br></div><div>rml<br></div><div>=
<br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"yiv5011764308yahoo_quoted_0220874630" class=3D"yiv=
5011764308yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mar=
y Hodgson &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv5011764308"><div class=3D"yiv5011764308y=
qt7551845793" id=3D"yiv5011764308yqtfd15229"><style type=3D"text/css">#yiv5=
011764308  P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div class=3D"yiv5011764308yqt7551845793" id=3D"yiv5011764308yqtfd47165">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif=
;font-size:12pt;">
Bob- </div></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif=
;font-size:12pt;">
 pushrod on the slave?&nbsp; Air in the system?&nbsp; I'm assuming this is =
big TR, not Spit.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif=
;font-size:12pt;">
Fred Hodgson<div class=3D"yiv5011764308yqt7551845793" id=3D"yiv5011764308yq=
tfd05504"><br clear=3D"none">
</div></div><div class=3D"yiv5011764308yqt7551845793" id=3D"yiv5011764308yq=
tfd16032">
</div></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div>_______________________________________________<b=
r><a ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.ht=
ml</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive " target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/piper=
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cribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triumphs=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/t=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><br><blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></=
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From: Bill Tobin via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 07:20:49 -0400

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Could it be that the slave is mounted on the wrong side of the bracket, 
or the bracket on the wrong side of the bellhousing? I think one of 
Kas's books addresses that situation. I know I read it somewhere.

Cheers, Bill

On 6/1/2019 8:51 PM, Brian Schirano via Fot wrote:
> Hi
>
> We had this problem when we R & R'd a TR6 trans a couple years ago 
> coinciding with swapping hydraulics while sorting the problem. Turns 
> out the clutch was being over thrown, must of gotten a long throw 
> master or something. discovered this by accident.
>
>   * ????????Dump the clutch to the floor, could not shift
>   * ?? ?? Put the clutch pedal halfway down gave me proper disengagement
>     etc, and releasing the clutch, no slippage.
>   * ?? ?? short term fix now in place three years, welded an adjustable
>     stop to the clutch pedal limiting the throw so as to not overthrow
>     the PP
>
>
> Try that
> Good luck
> Brian
>
> 26A GT6+, 28 TR6
> Brian Schirano
> 585-305-0349 Cell
> [email-masked]
>
>
> On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:52:50 PM EDT, Robert Lang via Fot 
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a TR6. The hydraulics have been bled 4 times, flushed AND the 
> slave replaced, no difference in the behavior. I get 1/2 inch of 
> travel at the slave to the cross-fork arm.
>
> I even tried using the upper hole in the clutch arm in case I was 
> "just a skosh" short of enough motion. No difference.
>
> I need to order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC. With all the spares I 
> seem to have, I don't have any Tilton rebuild kits. SHOCKING!
>
> I'm now going through the tranny to see if I can make it functional 
> and just put that back in. Yikes.
>
> Between THU and FRI this week, I did EIGHT tranny and clutch swaps. 
> That's some physical workout.
>
> Zzzzzzzz
>
> rml
>
> On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mary Hodgson 
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
> Bob-
> From what you describe, it sounds like a hydraulic malady.?? Adjustable 
> pushrod on the slave??? Air in the system??? I'm assuming this is big 
> TR, not Spit.
> Fred Hodgson
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive 
> >http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>

--------------3204D0678958FBE0C34F24CE
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Could it be that the slave is mounted on the wrong side of the
      bracket, or the bracket on the wrong side of the bellhousing? I
      think one of Kas's books addresses that situation. I know I read
      it somewhere.</p>
    <p>Cheers, Bill<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/1/2019 8:51 PM, Brian Schirano via
      Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div class="ydp1b838e04yahoo-style-wrap" style="">
        <div style="">
          <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
            serif; font-size: 16px;">Hi</div>
          <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
            serif; font-size: 16px;"><br>
          </div>
          <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
            serif; font-size: 16px;">We had this problem when we R &amp;
            R'd a TR6 trans a couple years ago coinciding with swapping
            hydraulics while sorting the problem. Turns out the clutch
            was being over thrown, must of gotten a long throw master or
            something. discovered this by accident.</div>
          <div style="">
            <ul style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
              serif; font-size: 16px;">
              <li>????????Dump the clutch to the floor, could not shift</li>
              <li>?? ?? Put the clutch pedal halfway down gave me proper
                disengagement etc, and releasing the clutch, no
                slippage.</li>
              <li>?? ?? short term fix now in place three years, welded an
                adjustable stop to the clutch pedal limiting the throw
                so as to not overthrow the PP</li>
            </ul>
            <div style=""><br>
            </div>
            Try that</div>
          <div style="">Good luck</div>
          <div style="">Brian<br>
            <br>
            26A GT6+, 28 TR6<br>
          </div>
          <div class="ydp1b838e04signature" style="font-family: times
            new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;">Brian
            Schirano<br>
            585-305-0349 Cell??<br>
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></div>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
          serif; font-size: 16px;"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
          serif; font-size: 16px;"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div id="ydp7249d7c7yahoo_quoted_0176005087"
        class="ydp7249d7c7yahoo_quoted">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div> On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:52:50 PM EDT, Robert Lang
            via Fot <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div id="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997">
              <div>
                <div
                  class="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997ydpbf8deacayahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                  sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
                  <div>Hi,</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>This is a TR6. The hydraulics have been bled 4
                    times, flushed AND the slave replaced, no difference
                    in the behavior. I get 1/2 inch of travel at the
                    slave to the cross-fork arm.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I even tried using the upper hole in the clutch
                    arm in case I was "just a skosh" short of enough
                    motion. No difference.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Seriously, I am puzzled by this.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Oh, and I did try an adjustable push rod.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I need to order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC.
                    With all the spares I seem to have, I don't have any
                    Tilton rebuild kits. SHOCKING!</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I'm now going through the tranny to see if I can
                    make it functional and just put that back in. Yikes.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Between THU and FRI this week, I did EIGHT tranny
                    and clutch swaps. That's some physical workout.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Zzzzzzzz</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>rml<br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div
                  id="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yahoo_quoted_0220874630"
                  class="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yahoo_quoted">
                  <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                    Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                    <div> On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT,
                      Fred and Mary Hodgson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>
                      wrote: </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div id="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div
                            class="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqt7551845793"
                            id="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqtfd47165">
                            <div style="color:rgb(0, 0,
                              0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica,
                              sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
                              Bob- </div>
                          </div>
                          <div style="color:rgb(0, 0,
                            0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica,
                            sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
                            From what you describe, it sounds like a
                            hydraulic malady.?? Adjustable pushrod on the
                            slave??? Air in the system??? I'm assuming
                            this is big TR, not Spit.</div>
                          <div style="color:rgb(0, 0,
                            0);font-family:Calibri, Helvetica,
                            sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
                            Fred Hodgson
                            <div
                              class="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqt7551845793"
                              id="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqtfd05504"><br
                                clear="none">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div
                            class="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqt7551845793"
                            id="ydp7249d7c7yiv8858811997yqtfd16032">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a><br>
            <br>
            <a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" rel="nofollow"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
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            <br>
            <br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>

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---

From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 14:04:46 +0200

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

--===============3119798555396797270==
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	charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

=20

I=E2=80=99m running a Tilton unit for years now.

The hydraulic is standard, =C2=BE=E2=80=9D master and the normal slave.

Adjustable pushrod. Standard factory clutch / brake =E2=80=93 pedal.

Most trouble is the fork of the throw out bearing.=20

The for needs in most cases some help.

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

Von: Fot <[email-masked]> Im Auftrag von Robert Lang via Fot
Gesendet: Sonntag, 2. Juni 2019 00:37
An: FOT Triumph <[email-masked]>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] clutch question

=20

Hi,

=20

This is a TR6. The hydraulics have been bled 4 times, flushed AND the =
slave replaced, no difference in the behavior. I get 1/2 inch of travel =
at the slave to the cross-fork arm.

=20

I even tried using the upper hole in the clutch arm in case I was "just =
a skosh" short of enough motion. No difference.

=20

=20

=20

I need to order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC. With all the spares I =
seem to have, I don't have any Tilton rebuild kits. SHOCKING!

=20

I'm now going through the tranny to see if I can make it functional and =
just put that back in. Yikes.

=20

Between THU and FRI this week, I did EIGHT tranny and clutch swaps. =
That's some physical workout.

=20

Zzzzzzzz

=20

rml

=20

On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mary Hodgson =

=20

=20

Bob-=20

>From what you describe, it sounds like a hydraulic malady.  Adjustable =
pushrod on the slave?  Air in the system?  I'm assuming this is big TR, =
not Spit.

Fred Hodgson

=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I=E2=80=99m running a Tilton unit =
for years now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The hydraulic is =
standard, =C2=BE=E2=80=9D master and the normal =
slave.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Adjustable pushrod. Standard =
factory clutch / brake =E2=80=93 pedal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Most trouble is the fork of the =
throw out bearing. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The for needs in most =
cases some help.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><img =
width=3D368 height=3D535 style=3D'width:3.8333in;height:5.5729in' =
id=3D"Grafik_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:[email-masked]"><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Von:</b> Fot =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Robert Lang via =
Fot<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 2. Juni 2019 00:37<br><b>An:</b> FOT =
Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] clutch =
question<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Hi,<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>This is a =
TR6. The hydraulics have been bled 4 times, flushed AND the slave =
replaced, no difference in the behavior. I get 1/2 inch of travel at the =
slave to the cross-fork arm.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I even =
tried using the upper hole in the clutch arm in case I was &quot;just a =
skosh&quot; short of enough motion. No =
difference.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Seriously, =
I am puzzled by this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Oh, and I =
did try an adjustable push rod.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I need to =
order a rebuild kit for the clutch MC. With all the spares I seem to =
have, I don't have any Tilton rebuild kits. =
SHOCKING!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I'm now =
going through the tranny to see if I can make it functional and just put =
that back in. Yikes.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Between =
THU and FRI this week, I did EIGHT tranny and clutch swaps. That's some =
physical workout.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Zzzzzzzz<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>rml<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
id=3D"yahoo_quoted_0220874630"><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>On Saturday, June 1, 2019, 6:00:31 PM EDT, Fred and Mary Hodgson =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
id=3Dyiv9371996543><div><div id=3Dyiv9371996543yqtfd47165><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Bob- =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From what you describe, it sounds =
like a hydraulic malady.&nbsp; Adjustable pushrod on the slave?&nbsp; =
Air in the system?&nbsp; I'm assuming this is big TR, not =
Spit.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Fred =
Hodgson<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=3Dyiv9371996543yqtfd05504><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: Robert Lang via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 00:38:18 +0000 (UTC)

--===============3564637716520205138==
	boundary="----=_Part_7878664_791432782.1559522298691"

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Thanks for all the replies. After playing with everything over the weekend=
, I was able to get the clutch to work by playing with the push rod length =
for the clutch MC. I'm not sure why this adjustment was needed, but somethi=
ng about the combination of parts resulted in inadequate motion at the clut=
ch fork. I'll sort it out later, but I may upgrade from the 3/4" clutch MC =
to a 7/8" as part of the eventual solution.
On the downside - I spun the thrust washers in the C/R tranny, so it looks =
like another case is toast.
But the car should run okay now, so I'm ready for Thompson in a couple of w=
eeks.
Thanks again!
rml

    On Sunday, June 2, 2019, 6:07:51 PM EDT, Jason Sukey <[email-masked]>=
 wrote: =20
=20
 Hi Bob,
=C2=A0 If I didn't know any better your symptoms sound like a cracked or no=
t fully seated taper pin that's rocking back into the "home" position when =
not under force.=C2=A0 (A stretch i know...).
What about the difference in disc thickness; .010" probably translates into=
 a lot more than=C2=A0 .010" additional required travel at the slave cylind=
er due science and stuff. :). What size master are you using with the Tilto=
n setup?
I hope you get it licked.
Jason

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 5:24 PM Robert Lang via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote=
:

Hi,
I have a bum c/r tranny, so I figured I'd swap in a stock box just to run w=
hile I figure out the problem with the c/r box. Due to the differences with=
 the input shaft, I had to switch to from the 21 spline clutch disk to the =
stock 10 spline disk. I have done this a couple of times in the past due to=
 "pesky layshaft thrust washers" Both clutch disks measure to within .010 t=
hickness. I bolt everything up and verify via the clutch cross shaft approx=
. 1/2 inch of travel, which is normal. In neutral, the output flange spins =
freely. If I try to put the tranny in any gear and push the clutch pedal to=
 the floor and try to spin the output flange by hand, it's locked. The clut=
ch is not releasing.
I've measured everything a few times looking for anything that looks amiss =
and so for, nothing seems to be an indication of why the clutch won't relea=
se.=20

Just to be sure that things are free in the bellhousing, I used a pipe on t=
he cross shaft arm and slowly applied pressure and the clutch DOES release =
so the indication is that I either have mechanical sloppyness or insufficie=
nt hydraulic linear motion. I verified that the pivots have no slop and non=
e of the pivot holes are egged out. I did find the pin to the pivot arm was=
 slightly worn, so I threw in a 5/16 bolt to take up slack there, but that =
was to no avail.
In the process, I have tried switching in two different transmissions and s=
everal combinations of clutch disks and pressure plates and to this point t=
he clutch will not release when using the clutch pedal but will release as =
described above when using a pipe on the pivot arm.
I plan to re-install the original gear box (and the proper clutch disk) at =
some point just to see if the problem is resolved but I have no idea if tha=
t will work or not. I guess I just have to try and see. But to be honest, d=
oing around 8 transmission swaps in 12 hours is fairly physical not to ment=
ion the challenge due to the roll cage. But that's just me being a wimp. ;-=
) I mean, I could have used that time to actually FIX the C/R transmission =
- right?

All this is more or less a long way of asking - are there any documented me=
asurements for things like the "finger height of the pressure plate measure=
d to the clutch disk" or the height measure from the rear engine plate inte=
rface to the clutch fork pin? I bolted several PP's to a spare flywheel and=
 came up with "around 1 inch" when the PP is bolted down, but that doesn't =
tell me anything like how far the fingers have to depress to open the clutc=
h up. As I mentioned earlier, 1/2" of lever motion usually is adequate, so =
think that part of the system is correct.
In any case, I'm confused and puzzled by this case not to mention slightly =
bummed because I had to miss some lapping at Lime Rock because the car isn'=
t in a running state right now. I thought about pinging "Click and Clack" a=
nd posing this as a "puzzlah", but decided not to. I also know that the sol=
ution should be obvious, but to this point is alluding me. So I need a kick=
 in the right direction.
TIA,Bob Lang339-927-4489
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

com

 =20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp9d6ddae8yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div>Thanks for all the replies. After playing with everything over=
 the weekend, I was able to get the clutch to work by playing with the push=
 rod length for the clutch MC. I'm not sure why this adjustment was needed,=
 but something about the combination of parts resulted in inadequate motion=
 at the clutch fork. I'll sort it out later, but I may upgrade from the 3/4=
" clutch MC to a 7/8" as part of the eventual solution.</div><div><br></div=
><div>On the downside - I spun the thrust washers in the C/R tranny, so it =
looks like another case is toast.</div><div><br></div><div>But the car shou=
ld run okay now, so I'm ready for Thompson in a couple of weeks.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Thanks again!</div><div><br></div><div>rml<br></div><div><br=
></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"yahoo_quoted_9984879917" class=3D"yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, June 2, 2019, 6:07:51 PM EDT, Jason Sukey &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv6973558967"><div><div><div>Hi Bob,<div><=
br clear=3D"none"></div>&nbsp; If I didn't know any better your symptoms so=
und like a cracked or not fully seated taper pin that's rocking back into t=
he "home" position when not under force.&nbsp; (A stretch i know...).</div>=
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>What about the difference in disc thickn=
ess; .010" probably translates into a lot more than&nbsp; .010" additional =
required travel at the slave cylinder due science and stuff. :). What size =
master are you using with the Tilton setup?</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></=
div><div>I hope you get it licked.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=
Jason</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none"><div class=3D"yiv6973558967gmail_quote"><div class=3D"yiv69735589=
67yqt0279111145" id=3D"yiv6973558967yqt04240"><div class=3D"yiv6973558967gm=
ail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 5:24 PM Robert Lang via Fot &lt;=
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv6973558967gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x;"><div><div class=3D"yiv6973558967m_-1236374070186621336m_470738977292376=
1311yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial=
, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div>Hi,</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><=
div>I have a bum c/r tranny, so I figured I'd swap in a stock box just to r=
un while I figure out the problem with the c/r box. Due to the differences =
with the input shaft, I had to switch to from the 21 spline clutch disk to =
the stock 10 spline disk. I have done this a couple of times in the past du=
e to "pesky layshaft thrust washers" Both clutch disks measure to within .0=
10 thickness. I bolt everything up and verify via the clutch cross shaft ap=
prox. 1/2 inch of travel, which is normal. In neutral, the output flange sp=
ins freely. If I try to put the tranny in any gear and push the clutch peda=
l to the floor and try to spin the output flange by hand, it's locked. The =
clutch is not releasing.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>I've measu=
red everything a few times looking for anything that looks amiss and so for=
, nothing seems to be an indication of why the clutch won't release. <br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Just to be sure that =
things are free in the bellhousing, I used a pipe on the cross shaft arm an=
d slowly applied pressure and the clutch DOES release so the indication is =
that I either have mechanical sloppyness or insufficient hydraulic linear m=
otion. I verified that the pivots have no slop and none of the pivot holes =
are egged out. I did find the pin to the pivot arm was slightly worn, so I =
threw in a 5/16 bolt to take up slack there, but that was to no avail.</div=
><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>In the process, I have tried switching =
in two different transmissions and several combinations of clutch disks and=
 pressure plates and to this point the clutch will not release when using t=
he clutch pedal but will release as described above when using a pipe on th=
e pivot arm.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>I plan to re-install t=
he original gear box (and the proper clutch disk) at some point just to see=
 if the problem is resolved but I have no idea if that will work or not. I =
guess I just have to try and see. But to be honest, doing around 8 transmis=
sion swaps in 12 hours is fairly physical not to mention the challenge due =
to the roll cage. But that's just me being a wimp. ;-) I mean, I could have=
 used that time to actually FIX the C/R transmission - right?<br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>All this is more or less a lo=
ng way of asking - are there any documented measurements for things like th=
e "finger height of the pressure plate measured to the clutch disk" or the =
height measure from the rear engine plate interface to the clutch fork pin?=
 I bolted several PP's to a spare flywheel and came up with "around 1 inch"=
 when the PP is bolted down, but that doesn't tell me anything like how far=
 the fingers have to depress to open the clutch up. As I mentioned earlier,=
 1/2" of lever motion usually is adequate, so think that part of the system=
 is correct.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>In any case, I'm confu=
sed and puzzled by this case not to mention slightly bummed because I had t=
o miss some lapping at Lime Rock because the car isn't in a running state r=
ight now. I thought about pinging "Click and Clack" and posing this as a "p=
uzzlah", but decided not to. I also know that the solution should be obviou=
s, but to this point is alluding me. So I need a kick in the right directio=
n.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>TIA,</div><div>Bob Lang</div><di=
v>339-927-4489<br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div>________________________=
_______________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><b=
r clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.fot=
-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
/www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"=
none">
Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail=
/fotUnsubscribe/Manage">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br clear=3D"none"=
" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
            </div>
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From: "van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 08:49:26 +0200 (CEST)

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The TR6 has a reputed problem : the wear in the parts that are operating the clutch can add up in a considerable loss of travel of that cylinder : suspension of the clutch pedal(shaft/hole), pedal to MC push rod, slave cylinder push rod to cross shaft, cross shaft to gearbox case. 
Marcel 

Van: "fot" <[email-masked]> 
Aan: "fot" <[email-masked]> 
Verzonden: Zaterdag 1 juni 2019 23:24:23 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] clutch question 

Hi, 

TIA, 
Bob Lang 
339-927-4489 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>The TR6 has a reputed problem : th=
e wear in the parts that are operating the clutch can add up in a considera=
ble loss of travel of that&nbsp; cylinder : suspension of the clutch pedal(=
shaft/hole), pedal to MC push rod, slave cylinder push rod to cross shaft, =
cross shaft to gearbox case.</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D=
"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>Van=
: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Aan: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]=
eam.net&gt;<br><b>Verzonden: </b>Zaterdag 1 juni 2019 23:24:23<br><b>Onderw=
erp: </b>Re: [Fot] clutch question<br></div><br><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTE=
D_TEXT__"><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Ne=
ue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div>Hi,</div><br><div>I =
have a bum c/r tranny, so I figured I'd swap in a stock box just to run whi=
le I figure out the problem with the c/r box. Due to the differences with t=
he input shaft, I had to switch to from the 21 spline clutch disk to the st=
ock 10 spline disk. I have done this a couple of times in the past due to "=
pesky layshaft thrust washers" Both clutch disks measure to within .010 thi=
ckness. I bolt everything up and verify via the clutch cross shaft approx. =
1/2 inch of travel, which is normal. In neutral, the output flange spins fr=
eely. If I try to put the tranny in any gear and push the clutch pedal to t=
he floor and try to spin the output flange by hand, it's locked. The clutch=
 is not releasing.</div><br><div>I've measured everything a few times looki=
ng for anything that looks amiss and so for, nothing seems to be an indicat=
ion of why the clutch won't release. <br></div><br><div>Just to be sure tha=
t things are free in the bellhousing, I used a pipe on the cross shaft arm =
and slowly applied pressure and the clutch DOES release so the indication i=
s that I either have mechanical sloppyness or insufficient hydraulic linear=
 motion. I verified that the pivots have no slop and none of the pivot hole=
s are egged out. I did find the pin to the pivot arm was slightly worn, so =
I threw in a 5/16 bolt to take up slack there, but that was to no avail.</d=
iv><br><div>In the process, I have tried switching in two different transmi=
ssions and several combinations of clutch disks and pressure plates and to =
this point the clutch will not release when using the clutch pedal but will=
 release as described above when using a pipe on the pivot arm.</div><br><d=
iv>I plan to re-install the original gear box (and the proper clutch disk) =
at some point just to see if the problem is resolved but I have no idea if =
that will work or not. I guess I just have to try and see. But to be honest=
, doing around 8 transmission swaps in 12 hours is fairly physical not to m=
ention the challenge due to the roll cage. But that's just me being a wimp.=
 ;-) I mean, I could have used that time to actually FIX the C/R transmissi=
on - right?<br></div><br><div>All this is more or less a long way of asking=
 - are there any documented measurements for things like the "finger height=
 of the pressure plate measured to the clutch disk" or the height measure f=
rom the rear engine plate interface to the clutch fork pin? I bolted severa=
l PP's to a spare flywheel and came up with "around 1 inch" when the PP is =
bolted down, but that doesn't tell me anything like how far the fingers hav=
e to depress to open the clutch up. As I mentioned earlier, 1/2" of lever m=
otion usually is adequate, so think that part of the system is correct.</di=
v><br><div>In any case, I'm confused and puzzled by this case not to mentio=
n slightly bummed because I had to miss some lapping at Lime Rock because t=
he car isn't in a running state right now. I thought about pinging "Click a=
nd Clack" and posing this as a "puzzlah", but decided not to. I also know t=
hat the solution should be obvious, but to this point is alluding me. So I =
need a kick in the right direction.</div><br><div>TIA,</div><div>Bob Lang</=
div><div>339-927-4489<br></div></div><br>__________________________________=
_____________<br>[email-masked]<br><br>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><br=
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Archive: http://autox.team.net/=
archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://aut=
ox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<br></div></di=
v></body></html>
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