Subject: Re: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4

From: davehogye <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:56:59 +0000 (UTC)

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Go long, Tony. 

I had .006-.007 on my motor. 

I did a measurement test without a head gasket in place and the head on. I checked with a feeler gauge between the head and block as I torqued it incrementally. 
It goes to zero pretty quick. I have notes on this, but they are not in front of me now. 
Something is squishing/moving and I'm not sure what, but so far so good with 7 race events and a bunch of street use on this... my first TR motor build. With, I think around 2,500 miles on it now. 
I "reused" copper figure 8 gaskets. 

Dave H. 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tony Drews" <[email-masked]> 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 6:12:57 PM 
Subject: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4 

Quick question re: liner protrusion in a wet liner engine. My new 
liners dry fitted with "stock" figure 8 gaskets (0.020" thick) have 
0.010" protrusion. Too much, I know. So, I'm going to make my own 
fig 8 gaskets out of shim stock. I have my choice between 0.015" 
shim stock and 0.012" shim stock which would give either 0.005" or 
0.002" protrusion dry. Any thoughts on which way I should go? I'm 
assuming that when I put some goo on the fig 8 gaskets to ensure that 
they seal that I'll get another thou or two protrusion so would go 
with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" protrusion. 

I'll be running the Cometic gasket with the fire rings. 

TIA 

Cheers, Tony Drews 

_______________________________________________ 
[email-masked] 

http://www.fot-racing.com 

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Go long, Tony. &nbsp;</div><div aria-l=
abel=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">I had .006=
-.007 on my motor. &nbsp;</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><=
div aria-label=3D"Compose body">I did &nbsp;a measurement test without a he=
ad gasket in place and the head on. &nbsp;I checked with a feeler gauge bet=
ween the head and block as I torqued it incrementally.</div><div aria-label=
=3D"Compose body">It goes to zero pretty quick. &nbsp;I have notes on this,=
 but they are not in front of me now. &nbsp;</div><div aria-label=3D"Compos=
e body">Something is squishing/moving and I'm not sure what, but so far so =
good with 7 race events and a bunch of street use on this... my first TR mo=
tor build. &nbsp;With, I think around 2,500 miles on it now.</div><div aria=
-label=3D"Compose body">I "reused" copper figure 8 gaskets.</div><div aria-=
label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Dave H.</=
div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose b=
ody"><br></div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:#000;fon=
t-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetic=
a,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #000; font-wei=
ght: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvet=
ica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From: </b>"Tony Drews" &lt;tony@=
tonydrews.com&gt;<br><b>To: </b>[email-masked]<br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday,=
 December 15, 2015 6:12:57 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>[Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR=
-4<br><div><br></div>Quick question re: liner protrusion in a wet liner eng=
ine. &nbsp;My new <br>liners dry fitted with "stock" figure 8 gaskets (0.02=
0" thick) have <br>0.010" protrusion. &nbsp;Too much, I know. &nbsp;So, I'm=
 going to make my own <br>fig 8 gaskets out of shim stock. &nbsp;I have my =
choice between 0.015" <br>shim stock and 0.012" shim stock which would give=
 either 0.005" or <br>0.002" protrusion dry. &nbsp;Any thoughts on which wa=
y I should go? &nbsp;I'm <br>assuming that when I put some goo on the fig 8=
 gaskets to ensure that <br>they seal that I'll get another thou or two pro=
trusion so would go <br>with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" protrusion.<br><div><=
br></div>I'll be running the Cometic gasket with the fire rings.<br><div><b=
r></div>TIA<br><div><br></div>Cheers, Tony Drews<br><div><br></div>________=
_______________________________________<br>[email-masked]<br><div><br><=
/div>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><div><br></div>Donate: http://www.team.ne=
t/donate.html<br>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>Forums: http://www=
.team.net/forums<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/fot/[email-masked]<br><div><br></div><br></div><div><br></div></div=
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_______________________________________________
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:22:31 -0600

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Things definitely do move around some.
that is why a lot of clamping force is required and
I think that is why KW and Gaskacinch  work well
as sealers.
On the other hand,  Alfa heads, block and liners move
around even more and our race car=E2=80=99s engine has
survived many, many hours of abuse with  a dry head
gasket.  Go figure.

art de armond

From: davehogye=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 8:56 PM
To: Drews, Tony=20
Cc: Friends of Triumph=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4

Go long, Tony. =20

I had .006-.007 on my motor. =20

I did  a measurement test without a head gasket in place and the head =
on.  I checked with a feeler gauge between the head and block as I =
torqued it incrementally.
It goes to zero pretty quick.  I have notes on this, but they are not in =
front of me now. =20
Something is squishing/moving and I'm not sure what, but so far so good =
with 7 race events and a bunch of street use on this... my first TR =
motor build.  With, I think around 2,500 miles on it now.
I "reused" copper figure 8 gaskets.

Dave H.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

Quick question re: liner protrusion in a wet liner engine.  My new=20
liners dry fitted with "stock" figure 8 gaskets (0.020" thick) have=20
0.010" protrusion.  Too much, I know.  So, I'm going to make my own=20
fig 8 gaskets out of shim stock.  I have my choice between 0.015"=20
shim stock and 0.012" shim stock which would give either 0.005" or=20
0.002" protrusion dry.  Any thoughts on which way I should go?  I'm=20
assuming that when I put some goo on the fig 8 gaskets to ensure that=20
they seal that I'll get another thou or two protrusion so would go=20
with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" protrusion.

TIA

Cheers, Tony Drews

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4483/11184 - Release Date: =
12/15/15

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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Things definitely do move around some.</DIV>
<DIV>that is why a lot of clamping force is required and</DIV>
<DIV>I think that is why KW and Gaskacinch&nbsp; work well</DIV>
<DIV>as sealers.</DIV>
<DIV>On the other hand,&nbsp; Alfa heads, block and liners move</DIV>
<DIV>around even more and our race car=E2=80=99s engine has</DIV>
<DIV>survived many, many hours of abuse with&nbsp; a dry head</DIV>
<DIV>gasket.&nbsp; Go figure.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>art de armond</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">davehogye</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 15, 2015 8:56 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Drews, Tony</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Friends of Triumph</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">Go long, Tony.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">I had .006-.007 on my motor.&nbsp; =
</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">I did&nbsp; a measurement test without =
a head=20
gasket in place and the head on.&nbsp; I checked with a feeler gauge =
between the=20
head and block as I torqued it incrementally.</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">It goes to zero pretty quick.&nbsp; I =
have notes=20
on this, but they are not in front of me now.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">Something is squishing/moving and I'm =
not sure=20
what, but so far so good with 7 race events and a bunch of street use on =
this...=20
my first TR motor build.&nbsp; With, I think around 2,500 miles on it =
now.</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">I "reused" copper figure 8 =
gaskets.</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">Dave H.</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV aria-label=3D"Compose body">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<HR id=3Dzwchr>

<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000; =
FONT-STYLE: normal"=20
data-mce-style=3D"color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; =
text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;"><B>From:=20
</B>"Tony Drews" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>To:=20
</B>[email-masked]<BR><B>Sent: </B>Tuesday, December 15, 2015 =
6:12:57=20
PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>[Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Quick question re: liner protrusion in a wet liner=20
engine.&nbsp; My new <BR>liners dry fitted with "stock" figure 8 gaskets =
(0.020"=20
thick) have <BR>0.010" protrusion.&nbsp; Too much, I know.&nbsp; So, I'm =
going=20
to make my own <BR>fig 8 gaskets out of shim stock.&nbsp; I have my =
choice=20
between 0.015" <BR>shim stock and 0.012" shim stock which would give =
either=20
0.005" or <BR>0.002" protrusion dry.&nbsp; Any thoughts on which way I =
should=20
go?&nbsp; I'm <BR>assuming that when I put some goo on the fig 8 gaskets =
to=20
ensure that <BR>they seal that I'll get another thou or two protrusion =
so would=20
go <BR>with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" protrusion.<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>I'll be running the Cometic gasket with the fire =
rings.<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>TIA<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Cheers, Tony Drews<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>fot@a=
utox.team.net<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive:=20
http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>[email-masked]<BR>=
<BR>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR><BR>Donate:=20
http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
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><BR>
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<P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
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Database: 4483/11184 - Release Date:=20
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From: davehogye <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:47:29 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi Mike, 
That's a tough call. Fortunately for me, I had Greg Solow advising me during my build. When I first checked the protrusion, I had really low measurements along one side of the block. I actually had the block machined on a slight angle to clean it up. That gave me higher protrusion than the .003-.005" spec. at .006-.007". So I think it's better to be on the high side than shorter than .003" of the factory spec. 
If I recall correctly, when I torqued the head without a gasket in place it went to .001" around 40lbs. of torque with the .006-.007" protrusion. So something is squishing or giving quite a bit when the head is getting torqued. 
This is why a torque plate should always to used when the liners are bored. The liners change shape under pressure. 
I wouldn't get too hung up on what is happening with the head on torque measurement, but .008" with the head off seams a little high. But I thought .006-.007" was high too. 
Really, at that point I decided to just put the thing together. 
With the head off, are you still getting .008" protrusion? 
The only reasonable thing you can do to change that, is change the figure 8 or take a little off the top of the liners. 
Perhaps Ken can advice you better than me. 
Man, is everyone using 89mm pistons now? 

Dave 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Michael Moore" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Tony Drews" <[email-masked]> 
Cc: "davehogye" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 5:18:03 AM 
Subject: RE: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4 

Tony and Dave, 

This is my first racing engine rebuild (2nd engine rebuild I have ever done), and I am trying to figure out each step as I go, so any advice would really help. I have read Tony's rebuild tips on the web, and Kas books. But it's sometimes hard to put word in correct actions. 

I am currently fitting new liners I got from ken Knight, I assume these are ones you got Tony. 

With them held in by bolts and washers torqued to 40lbs I had .007 protrusion, using .015 steel figure 8s, the copper I have are .020, so I assumed too thick. 

After talking to Mordy Dundst, I put on head without gasket, before tightening I had .008 between deck and head. After tightening to 40lbs I could barely get .003 between head and block. Something doesn't seem right. 

Can you guys advise on what I am doing wrong, or what I should do? 

Thanks, Mike 

62 TR4, Race car 
63 TR4, Street car 

Mike & Becky Moore 
6050 Ruhl Road, Fairview, PA 16415 

[email-masked] 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Tony Drews 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:13 PM 
To: [email-masked] 
Subject: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4 

Quick question re: liner protrusion in a wet liner engine. My new liners dry fitted with "stock" figure 8 gaskets (0.020" thick) have 0.010" protrusion. Too much, I know. So, I'm going to make my own fig 8 gaskets out of shim stock. I have my choice between 0.015" 
shim stock and 0.012" shim stock which would give either 0.005" or 0.002" protrusion dry. Any thoughts on which way I should go? I'm assuming that when I put some goo on the fig 8 gaskets to ensure that they seal that I'll get another thou or two protrusion so would go with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" protrusion. 

TIA 

Cheers, Tony Drews 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Hi Mike,</div><div aria-label=3D"Compo=
se body">That's a tough call. &nbsp;Fortunately for me, I had Greg Solow ad=
vising me during my build. &nbsp;When I first checked the protrusion, I had=
 really low measurements along one side of the block. &nbsp;I actually had =
the block machined on a slight angle to clean it up. &nbsp;That gave me hig=
her protrusion than the .003-.005" spec. at .006-.007". &nbsp;So I think it=
's better to be on the high side than shorter than .003" of the factory spe=
c.</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">If I recall correctly, when I torq=
ued the head without a gasket in place it went to .001" around 40lbs. of to=
rque with the .006-.007" protrusion. &nbsp;So something is squishing or giv=
ing quite a bit when the head is getting torqued. &nbsp;</div><div aria-lab=
el=3D"Compose body">This is why a torque plate should always to used when t=
he liners are bored. &nbsp;The liners change shape under pressure.</div><di=
v aria-label=3D"Compose body">I wouldn't get too hung up on what is happeni=
ng with the head on torque measurement, but .008" with the head off seams a=
 little high. &nbsp;But I thought .006-.007" was high too.</div><div aria-l=
abel=3D"Compose body">Really, at that point I decided to just put the thing=
 together.</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">With the head off, are you=
 still getting .008" protrusion?</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">The =
only reasonable thing you can do to change that, is change the figure 8 or =
take a little off the top of the liners.</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose bo=
dy">Perhaps Ken can advice you better than me.</div><div aria-label=3D"Comp=
ose body">Man, is everyone using 89mm pistons now? &nbsp;</div><div aria-la=
bel=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Dave</div><=
div aria-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><=
div style=3D"color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoratio=
n:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" data-mce-sty=
le=3D"color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration=
: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From:=
 </b>"Michael Moore" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Tony Drew=
s" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"davehogye" &lt;dlhogye@comcast=
.net&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, December 16, 2015 5:18:03 AM<br><b>Subj=
ect: </b>RE: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4<br><div><br></div>Tony and Dave,<=
br><div><br></div>This is my first racing engine rebuild (2nd engine rebuil=
d I have ever done), and I am trying to figure out each step as I go, so an=
y advice would really help. I have read Tony's rebuild tips on the web, and=
 Kas books. But it's sometimes hard to put word in correct actions.<br><div=
><br></div>I am currently fitting new liners I got from ken Knight, I assum=
e these are ones you got Tony.<br><div><br></div>With them held in by bolts=
 and washers torqued to 40lbs I had .007 protrusion, using .015 steel figur=
e 8s, the copper I have are .020, so I assumed too thick.<br><div><br></div=
>After talking to Mordy Dundst, I put on head without gasket, before tighte=
ning I had .008 between deck and head. After tightening to 40lbs I could ba=
rely get .003 between head and block. Something doesn't seem right.<br><div=
><br></div>Can you guys advise on what I am doing wrong, or what I should d=
o?<br><div><br></div><br>Thanks, Mike<br><div><br></div>62 TR4, Race car<br=
>63 TR4, Street car<br><div><br></div>Mike &amp; Becky Moore<br>6050 Ruhl R=
oad, Fairview, PA 16415<br><div><br></div>[email-masked]<br><div><br=
></div><br><div><br></div><br>&nbsp;<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From:=
 Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Tony Drews<br>Sent: T=
uesday, December 15, 2015 9:13 PM<br>To: [email-masked]<br>Subject: [Fo=
t] Liner Protrusion, TR-4<br><div><br></div>Quick question re: liner protru=
sion in a wet liner engine. &nbsp;My new liners dry fitted with "stock" fig=
ure 8 gaskets (0.020" thick) have 0.010" protrusion. &nbsp;Too much, I know=
. &nbsp;So, I'm going to make my own fig 8 gaskets out of shim stock. &nbsp=
;I have my choice between 0.015" <br>shim stock and 0.012" shim stock which=
 would give either 0.005" or 0.002" protrusion dry. &nbsp;Any thoughts on w=
hich way I should go? &nbsp;I'm assuming that when I put some goo on the fi=
g 8 gaskets to ensure that they seal that I'll get another thou or two prot=
rusion so would go with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" protrusion.<br><div><br></=
div>I'll be running the Cometic gasket with the fire rings.<br><div><br></d=
iv>TIA<br><div><br></div>Cheers, Tony Drews<br><div><br></div>_____________=
__________________________________<br>[email-masked]<br><div><br></div>=
http://www.fot-racing.com<br><div><br></div>Donate: http://www.team.net/don=
ate.html<br>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>Forums: http://www.team=
.net/forums<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fo=
t/[email-masked]<br><div><br></div><br></div><div><br></div></div></=
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From: Greg Blake <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 11:22:39 -0600

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In response to your piston question, nope. Several of us in CVAR still run w=
ith 87mm pistons. =20

Greg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:47 AM, davehogye <[email-masked]> wrote:
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> Hi Mike,
> That's a tough call.  Fortunately for me, I had Greg Solow advising me dur=
ing my build.  When I first checked the protrusion, I had really low measure=
ments along one side of the block.  I actually had the block machined on a s=
light angle to clean it up.  That gave me higher protrusion than the .003-.0=
05" spec. at .006-.007".  So I think it's better to be on the high side than=
 shorter than .003" of the factory spec.
> If I recall correctly, when I torqued the head without a gasket in place i=
t went to .001" around 40lbs. of torque with the .006-.007" protrusion.  So s=
omething is squishing or giving quite a bit when the head is getting torqued=
. =20
> This is why a torque plate should always to used when the liners are bored=
.  The liners change shape under pressure.
> I wouldn't get too hung up on what is happening with the head on torque me=
asurement, but .008" with the head off seams a little high.  But I thought .=
006-.007" was high too.
> The only reasonable thing you can do to change that, is change the figure 8=
 or take a little off the top of the liners.
> Man, is everyone using 89mm pistons now? =20
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> Dave
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> This is my first racing engine rebuild (2nd engine rebuild I have ever don=
e), and I am trying to figure out each step as I go, so any advice would rea=
lly help. I have read Tony's rebuild tips on the web, and Kas books. But it'=
s sometimes hard to put word in correct actions.
>=20
> I am currently fitting new liners I got from ken Knight, I assume these ar=
e ones you got Tony.
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> With them held in by bolts and washers torqued to 40lbs I had .007 protrus=
ion, using .015 steel figure 8s, the copper I have are .020, so I assumed to=
o thick.
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ning I had .008 between deck and head. After tightening to 40lbs I could bar=
ely get .003 between head and block. Something doesn't seem right.
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> =20
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> Quick question re: liner protrusion in a wet liner engine.  My new liners d=
ry fitted with "stock" figure 8 gaskets (0.020" thick) have 0.010" protrusio=
n.  Too much, I know.  So, I'm going to make my own fig 8 gaskets out of shi=
m stock.  I have my choice between 0.015"=20
> shim stock and 0.012" shim stock which would give either 0.005" or 0.002" p=
rotrusion dry.  Any thoughts on which way I should go?  I'm assuming that wh=
en I put some goo on the fig 8 gaskets to ensure that they seal that I'll ge=
t another thou or two protrusion so would go with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" p=
rotrusion.
>=20
>=20
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afirm.com
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>In response to your piston question, n=
ope. Several of us in CVAR still run with 87mm pistons. &nbsp;</div><div id=3D=
"AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Greg<br><br>Se=
nt from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:47 AM, davehogye &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; f=
ont-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Hi Mike,</d=
iv><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">That's a tough call. &nbsp;Fortunately f=
or me, I had Greg Solow advising me during my build. &nbsp;When I first chec=
ked the protrusion, I had really low measurements along one side of the bloc=
k. &nbsp;I actually had the block machined on a slight angle to clean it up.=
 &nbsp;That gave me higher protrusion than the .003-.005" spec. at .006-.007=
". &nbsp;So I think it's better to be on the high side than shorter than .00=
3" of the factory spec.</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">If I recall co=
rrectly, when I torqued the head without a gasket in place it went to .001" a=
round 40lbs. of torque with the .006-.007" protrusion. &nbsp;So something is=
 squishing or giving quite a bit when the head is getting torqued. &nbsp;</d=
iv><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">This is why a torque plate should always=
 to used when the liners are bored. &nbsp;The liners change shape under pres=
sure.</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">I wouldn't get too hung up on wh=
at is happening with the head on torque measurement, but .008" with the head=
 off seams a little high. &nbsp;But I thought .006-.007" was high too.</div>=
<div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Really, at that point I decided to just put=
 the thing together.</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">With the head off=
, are you still getting .008" protrusion?</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose bo=
dy">The only reasonable thing you can do to change that, is change the figur=
e 8 or take a little off the top of the liners.</div><div aria-label=3D"Comp=
ose body">Perhaps Ken can advice you better than me.</div><div aria-label=3D=
"Compose body">Man, is everyone using 89mm pistons now? &nbsp;</div><div ari=
a-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Dave</di=
v><div aria-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"=
><div style=3D"color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decorati=
on:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" data-mce-sty=
le=3D"color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration:=
 none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From: <=
/b>"Michael Moore" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mmoore@mtmcp=
afirm.com</a>&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Tony Drews" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony@tony=
drews.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"davehogye" &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Wed=
nesday, December 16, 2015 5:18:03 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Fot] Liner Prot=
rusion, TR-4<br><div><br></div>Tony and Dave,<br><div><br></div>This is my f=
irst racing engine rebuild (2nd engine rebuild I have ever done), and I am t=
rying to figure out each step as I go, so any advice would really help. I ha=
ve read Tony's rebuild tips on the web, and Kas books. But it's sometimes ha=
rd to put word in correct actions.<br><div><br></div>I am currently fitting n=
ew liners I got from ken Knight, I assume these are ones you got Tony.<br><d=
iv><br></div>With them held in by bolts and washers torqued to 40lbs I had .=
007 protrusion, using .015 steel figure 8s, the copper I have are .020, so I=
 assumed too thick.<br><div><br></div>After talking to Mordy Dundst, I put o=
n head without gasket, before tightening I had .008 between deck and head. A=
fter tightening to 40lbs I could barely get .003 between head and block. Som=
ething doesn't seem right.<br><div><br></div>Can you guys advise on what I a=
m doing wrong, or what I should do?<br><div><br></div><br>Thanks, Mike<br><d=
iv><br></div>62 TR4, Race car<br>63 TR4, Street car<br><div><br></div>Mike &=
amp; Becky Moore<br>6050 Ruhl Road, Fairview, PA 16415<br><div><br></div><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><div><br><=
/div><br><div><br></div><br>&nbsp;<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Fo=
t [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net</a>] On Behalf Of Tony Drews<br>Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:13=
 PM<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>S=
ubject: [Fot] Liner Protrusion, TR-4<br><div><br></div>Quick question re: li=
ner protrusion in a wet liner engine. &nbsp;My new liners dry fitted with "s=
tock" figure 8 gaskets (0.020" thick) have 0.010" protrusion. &nbsp;Too much=
, I know. &nbsp;So, I'm going to make my own fig 8 gaskets out of shim stock=
. &nbsp;I have my choice between 0.015" <br>shim stock and 0.012" shim stock=
 which would give either 0.005" or 0.002" protrusion dry. &nbsp;Any thoughts=
 on which way I should go? &nbsp;I'm assuming that when I put some goo on th=
e fig 8 gaskets to ensure that they seal that I'll get another thou or two p=
rotrusion so would go with the 0.012" shim / 0.002" protrusion.<br><div><br>=
</div>I'll be running the Cometic gasket with the fire rings.<br><div><br></=
div>TIA<br><div><br></div>Cheers, Tony Drews<br><div><br></div>_____________=
__________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a><br><div><br></div><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.co=
m">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><div><br></div>Donate: <a href=3D"http:/=
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kquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>________________________________=
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