Subject: Re: [Fot] Race Car Brake Calipers

From: Mike Jackson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 17:57:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-size: 16px;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: ari=
al, sans-serif;">I had planned on staying out of this but my fingers have o=
ver ruled my brain....<div><br></div><div>My poor old TR3 has NEVER faded a=
 brake at any race anywhere! &nbsp;That includes an amazing bumper to bumpe=
r race with an ex IMSA, 6cyl Vitesse at Road America at a previous TR reuni=
on. &nbsp;I led him twice and we finished with a separation of a few inches=
. &nbsp;There was no other 4 cyl Triumph within sight. &nbsp;Similarly at t=
racks as brutal on brakes as Sebring at the 12 hr support race. &nbsp;Ran i=
t many times. &nbsp;NO FADE, even at the old hairpin config.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>You are working on this problem too hard. &nbsp;Or.....as once a=
dvised by an old, successful pro racer "more throttle, less brake"</div><di=
v><br></div><div>The real issue to worry about is rear axles, front spindle=
s and front and rear hubs. &nbsp;Modern tires are the villain here, not bra=
kes. &nbsp;Actually, modern tires make the brake issue smaller.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Mike Jackson<br><br><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 5px; m=
argin-left: 0px; border-left: #0000ff 2px solid; font-weight: normal; font-=
style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,s=
ans-serif; color: black;">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Scott Janzen <[email-masked]>
<br>Sent: Dec 1, 2015 2:59 PM
<br>To: STEPHEN BOROWSKI <[email-masked]>
<br>Cc: FOT List <[email-masked]>
<br>Subject: Re: [Fot] Race Car Brake Calipers

<br><br><zzzhtml><zzzhead></zzzhead><zzzbody style=3D"word-wrap: break-word=
; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Brakes=
 are definitely a limiting factor in many vintage cars. &nbsp;One of the th=
ings that keep them vintage. &nbsp;The rules for the three clubs below esse=
ntially say - calipers of the same size and number of pistons, rotors ditto=
.<div><br></div><div>SVRA says -&nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" styl=
e=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; ">3. Alternate rotors and drums o=
f the same diameter and thickness are permitted. Rotors may be
drilled or grooved.</span><div class=3D"column"><p><span style=3D"font-size=
: 9.000000pt; font-family: 'Arial'">4. Alternate calipers or wheel cylinder=
s must be of the same material, design and number of pistons
as the original component. There must be no increase in the frictional surf=
ace of the pads or shoes&nbsp;</span></p>
=09=09</div><p><span style=3D"font-size: 9.000000pt; font-family: 'Arial'">=
VRG &nbsp;-&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rg=
b(36, 93, 63); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; =
line-height: 18px; ">Brakes must be the original type (disc, drum), size, a=
nd design as supplied by the manufacturer, or listed option, for the model.=
&nbsp; Updating from drum to disc will result in reclassification if eligib=
ility timeline (e.g. 1960) is crossed.&nbsp; Lining and pad materials are f=
ree.&nbsp; Rotors may be drilled or grooved, but must be same diameter, thi=
ckness, and material as originally supplied.&nbsp; Modern aftermarket calip=
ers are not permitted. &nbsp;</span></p><div>VDCA -&nbsp;<span class=3D"App=
le-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(153, 51, 0); font-family: Geneva; ">Brak=
ing systems must be of the same type as standard for the year of manufactur=
e or as homologated by the original manufacturer for that year.&nbsp; Updat=
ing or backdating is not allowed.</span></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times; fo=
nt-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: nor=
mal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align=
: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spac=
ing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 2=
04); text-indent: -20pt; margin-left: 38pt;"><font color=3D"#993300"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Geneva;">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-va=
riant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; fo=
nt-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</=
span>Aftermarket brake calipers are prohibited</span></font></p><div><br></=
div><div><div>On Dec 1, 2015, at 2:24 PM, STEPHEN BOROWSKI wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style=3D"color:#000; backgrou=
nd-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,=
 Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_14489968=
38782_3858"><br>Hello All,</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1448996838782_3890"=
>I am starting the selection for front brakes on my TR4 racer. Naturally th=
e old stock ones are out.&nbsp;Are the Toyota four piston calipers good eno=
ugh? They are less expensive and easy to get, with disks and assorted pads.=
 Which after market models work well and bolt wright in? Which disks work t=
he best and last? 10 inch, 10.5 inch -- bigger or smaller?</div><div id=3D"=
yui_3_16_0_1_1448996838782_3989">All comments are welcome!</div><div id=3D"=
yui_3_16_0_1_1448996838782_3990">&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_144899=
6838782_3991">Thank You,</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1448996838782_3992">S=
teve &amp; Matthew</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1448996838782_3993">Florida=
 TR4 Racing</div></div></div>______________________________________________=
_<br><a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
.net</a><br><br>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><br>Donate: http://www.team.ne=
t/donate.html<br>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>Forums: http://www=
.team.net/forums<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/fot/[email-masked]<br><br><br></div><br></div></zzzbody></zzzhtml></fot@=
autox.team.net></[email-masked]></[email-masked]></blockquote></div><=
/div></body></html>

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_______________________________________________
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 23:55:08 +0000

The battle of "what is vintage" rages on. There was a time when all the TR's had OEM brakes and some guys had better pads. There was a time when all the TR's had 87MM pistons and some were running forged pistons. There was a time when all the TR's ran on Bias ply tires and some guys bought new ones every weekend. There was a time when updating to modern components was frowned upon, and some of us are nostalgic for that time. One of the joys of vintage racing is the cost containment of living to a point in time set of rules, say the 1972 GCR. Build it to the best you can to those specs and race it the best you can against similarly built machinery. Joy. There was a time when that was what vintage racing was. 

Get nitrided or chrome pistons for your TR brakes, use high quality racing brake fluid, bled them before each race weekend and you are good to go. 

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---- Scott Janzen <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> Brakes are definitely a limiting factor in many vintage cars.  One of the things that keep them vintage.  The rules for the three clubs below essentially say - calipers of the same size and number of pistons, rotors ditto.
> 
> SVRA says - 3. Alternate rotors and drums of the same diameter and thickness are permitted. Rotors may be drilled or grooved.
> 4. Alternate calipers or wheel cylinders must be of the same material, design and number of pistons as the original component. There must be no increase in the frictional surface of the pads or shoes 
> 
> VRG  - Brakes must be the original type (disc, drum), size, and design as supplied by the manufacturer, or listed option, for the model.  Updating from drum to disc will result in reclassification if eligibility timeline (e.g. 1960) is crossed.  Lining and pad materials are free.  Rotors may be drilled or grooved, but must be same diameter, thickness, and material as originally supplied.  Modern aftermarket calipers are not permitted.  
> 
> VDCA - Braking systems must be of the same type as standard for the year of manufacture or as homologated by the original manufacturer for that year.  Updating or backdating is not allowed.
> 1.       Aftermarket brake calipers are prohibited
> 
> 
> On Dec 1, 2015, at 2:24 PM, STEPHEN BOROWSKI wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> I am starting the selection for front brakes on my TR4 racer. Naturally the old stock ones are out. Are the Toyota four piston calipers good enough? They are less expensive and easy to get, with disks and assorted pads. Which after market models work well and bolt wright in? Which disks work the best and last? 10 inch, 10.5 inch -- bigger or smaller?
> All comments are welcome!
>  
> Thank You,
> Steve & Matthew
> Florida TR4 Racing
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> 
> 
>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 21:42:31 -0500

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Folkes,=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=20=20=20Maybe=20its=20just=20me,=20but=20even=20"back=20i=
n=20the=20day"=20I=20was=20always=20very=20happy=20with=20the=20TR's=20ability=20=
to=20go=20into=20a=20corner=20just=20a=20bit=20farther=20that=20the=20others=20b=
ecause=20of=20the=20great=20brakes.?Any=20of=20the=20TR's=20Ive=20raced=20were=20=
all=20more=20than=20capable=20of=20locking=20up=20the=20brakes=20at=20any=20time=
=20with=20huge=20slicks=20mounted.=20You=20can=20put=20on=20the=20biggest=20badd=
est=20brakes=20available,=20but=20the=20car=20won't=20perform=20any=20better=20i=
f=20it=20can=20lock=20the=20brakes=20up=20sooner=20than=20stock=20brakes.=20Now=20=
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es=20skidding,=20or=20it=20takes=20too=20much=20effort=20to=20do=20so,=20then=20=
you=20have=20an=20issue=20with=20your=20car,=20not=20the=20brake=20system.=0D=0A=
=0D=0Amy=202=20cents=20worth...=0D=0ANick=20in=20Nor=20Cal=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=
=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0A=0A
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<font=20size=3D"4"=20face=3D"Comic=20Sans=20MS,=20sans-serif">Folkes,</font><br>=
=0D=0A<br>=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=0D=0A<font=20size=3D"4"=20face=3D"Comic=20Sans=20MS=
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I=20was=20always=20very=20happy=20=0D=0Awith=20the=20TR's=20ability=20to=20go=20=
into=20a=20corner=20just=20a=20bit=20farther=20that=20the=20=0D=0Aothers=20becau=
se=20of=20the=20great=20brakes.&nbsp;Any=20of=20the=20TR's=20Ive=20raced=20were=20=
all=20more=20than=20capable=20of=20locking=20up=20the=20brakes=20at=20any=20time=
=20with=20huge=20slicks=20mounted.=20You=20can=20put=20on=20the=20biggest=20badd=
est=20brakes=20available,=20but=20the=20car=20won't=20perform=20any=20better=20i=
f=20it=20can=20lock=20the=20brakes=20up=20sooner=20than=20stock=20brakes.=20Now=20=
if=20you=20have=20to=20wait=20to=20get=20the=20brakes=20locked=20and=20the=20tir=
es=20skidding,=20or=20it=20takes=20too=20much=20effort=20to=20do=20so,=20then=20=
you=20have=20an=20issue=20with=20your=20car,=20not=20the=20brake=20system.<br>=0D=
=0A<br>=0D=0Amy=202=20cents=20worth...<br>=0D=0ANick=20in=20Nor=20Cal<br>=0D=0A<=
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</div>=0D=0A=20=20=20=20</div>=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
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From: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 07:35:49 -0500

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Well put Bob.
Some of us still look at it in the present tense...
Glen
(and iff'n you don't have to notch the cylinder liners for the inlet valves, your pistons are too damned big!)

-----Original Message-----
From: rkramer3 <[email-masked]>
To: Scott Janzen <[email-masked]>; STEPHEN BOROWSKI <[email-masked]>
Cc: FOT List <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Dec 1, 2015 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Race Car Brake Calipers

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

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<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>We<font size="2">ll put Bob.<br>
Some of us still look at it in the present tense...<br>
Glen<br>
(and iff'n you don't have to notch the cylinder liners for the inlet valves, your pistons are too damned big!)<br>
</font>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>

From: rkramer3 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

To: Scott Janzen &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; STEPHEN BOROWSKI &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

Cc: FOT List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

Sent: Tue, Dec 1, 2015 6:59 pm<br>

Subject: Re: [Fot] Race Car Brake Calipers<br>

<br>

The battle of "what is vintage" rages on. There was a time when all the TR's had OEM brakes and some guys had better pads. There was a time when all the TR's had 87MM pistons and some were running forged pistons. There was a time when all the TR's ran on Bias ply tires and some guys bought new ones every weekend. There was a time when updating to modern components was frowned upon, and some of us are nostalgic for that time. One of the joys of vintage racing is the cost containment of living to a point in time set of rules, say the 1972 GCR. Build it to the best you can to those specs and race it the best you can against similarly built machinery. Joy. There was a time when that was what vintage racing was. <br>

<br>

Get nitrided or chrome pistons for your TR brakes, use high quality racing brake fluid, bled them before each race weekend and you are good to go. <br>

<br>

Bob Kramer<br>

<a removedlink__65d0b794-d68e-4536-b5f4-80f7ad7c21c3__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>

<br>

---- Scott Janzen &lt;<a removedlink__65d0b794-d68e-4536-b5f4-80f7ad7c21c3__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br>

&gt; Brakes are definitely a limiting factor in many vintage cars.  One of the things that keep them vintage.  The rules for the three clubs below essentially say - calipers of the same size and number of pistons, rotors ditto.<br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; SVRA says - 3. Alternate rotors and drums of the same diameter and thickness are permitted. Rotors may be drilled or grooved.<br>

&gt; 4. Alternate calipers or wheel cylinders must be of the same material, design and number of pistons as the original component. There must be no increase in the frictional surface of the pads or shoes <br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; VRG  - Brakes must be the original type (disc, drum), size, and design as supplied by the manufacturer, or listed option, for the model.  Updating from drum to disc will result in reclassification if eligibility timeline (e.g. 1960) is crossed.  Lining and pad materials are free.  Rotors may be drilled or grooved, but must be same diameter, thickness, and material as originally supplied.  Modern aftermarket calipers are not permitted.  <br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; VDCA - Braking systems must be of the same type as standard for the year of manufacture or as homologated by the original manufacturer for that year.  Updating or backdating is not allowed.<br>

&gt; 1.       Aftermarket brake calipers are prohibited<br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; On Dec 1, 2015, at 2:24 PM, STEPHEN BOROWSKI wrote:<br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; Hello All,<br>

&gt; I am starting the selection for front brakes on my TR4 racer. Naturally the old stock ones are out. Are the Toyota four piston calipers good enough? They are less expensive and easy to get, with disks and assorted pads. Which after market models work well and bolt wright in? Which disks work the best and last? 10 inch, 10.5 inch -- bigger or smaller?<br>

&gt; All comments are welcome!<br>

&gt;  <br>

&gt; Thank You,<br>

&gt; Steve &amp; Matthew<br>

&gt; Florida TR4 Racing<br>

&gt; _______________________________________________<br>

&gt; <a removedlink__65d0b794-d68e-4536-b5f4-80f7ad7c21c3__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>

&gt; <br>

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&gt; <br>

&gt; Donate: <a removedlink__65d0b794-d68e-4536-b5f4-80f7ad7c21c3__href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>

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&gt; <br>

&gt; <br>

&gt; <br>

<br>

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