Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 starter issue

From: Greg And Alison Blake via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 11:08:03 -0500

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Jack,

I had a similar starter issue back when the 3 was a street car it had the sy=
mptoms that you describe. It was an internal fault in the starter. =46rom wh=
at I remember there was a bushing that had degraded over time that was causi=
ng the starter to not engage. It was spin just fine but could not engage an t=
urn the motor over.=20

Sorry, can't answer the other questions.=20

> On May 22, 2015, at 7:56 PM, Jack Brooks via Fot <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:
>=20
> Amici,
> =20
> I am finally looking to install a gear reduction starter in my (post 60K) S=
treet/Auto-X  TR3A.  I believe I need the long later starter, as that is wha=
t is in the car, but I have some function issues which I do not understand. =
 My configuration is as follows:
> =20
> Block:  TR4
> Tranny: TR3, non-syncro OD.  The small starter bulge on the tranny has bee=
n modified/extended to accommodate the longer starter.  The hole is covered t=
o keep dirt and moisture out.
> Flywheel: TR4A-6 style, with bolt on ring gear, lightened to 22 pounds
> Clutch:  Clutchmaster TR6
> =20
> I believe the fact that I am using the TR4A-6 flywheel and bolt-on ring ge=
ar drives the need for the long starter.  Any help in confirming this would b=
e appreciated.
> =20
> While this combination has been in place for at least 10 years, I do get t=
imes when the starter spins up, but does not =E2=80=9Ccatch=E2=80=9D the rin=
g gear, so it does not turn over the engine.  Restarting always catches, alt=
hough sometimes this could take a few tries.  I=E2=80=99ve always thought th=
is was the starter needed an overhaul, but have not taken the time to pull i=
t and see.  The starter pinion and ring gear never crunch.  It either engage=
s well or not, although it may engage and =E2=80=9Cslip out=E2=80=9D occasio=
nally.  This non-engagement gets worse with decreasing temperature.  On a 40=
 degree day, I have tried over 15 starts before it=E2=80=99ll catch.  This i=
s unacceptable.=20
> =20
> I want to be sure this is a starter problem and not a component problem be=
fore I install a new starter and potentially cause problems.
> =20
> Also, any help on figuring out the non-engagement and slipping issues woul=
d be great. =20
> =20
> Just for grins, is there any way to tell which starter is installed withou=
t pulling it out?  It=E2=80=99s been a while.
>=20
> Thanks in advance,
> =20
> Jack
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> [email-masked]
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ablake2@aust=
in.rr.com
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Jack,</div><div><br></div><div>I had a=
 similar starter issue back when the 3 was a street car it had the symptoms t=
hat you describe. It was an internal fault in the starter. =46rom what I rem=
ember there was a bushing that had degraded over time that was causing the s=
tarter to not engage. It was spin just fine but could not engage an turn the=
 motor over.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Sorry, can't answer the other qu=
estions.&nbsp;<br><br><br></div><div><br>On May 22, 2015, at 7:56 PM, Jack B=
rooks via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">=

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<div class=3D"Section1">

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Amici,</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">I am finally looking to install a gear reduction starter in my (post=

60K) Street/Auto-X &nbsp;TR3A.&nbsp; I believe I need the long later starter=
,
as that is what is in the car, but I have some function issues which I do no=
t
understand.&nbsp; My configuration is as follows:</span></font><font size=3D=
"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Block: &nbsp;TR4</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Tranny: TR3, non-syncro OD.&nbsp; The small starter bulge on the tra=
nny
has been modified/extended to accommodate the longer starter.&nbsp; The hole=
 is
covered to keep dirt and moisture out.</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D=
"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Flywheel: TR4A-6 style, with bolt on ring gear, lightened to 22 poun=
ds </span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Clutch:&nbsp; Clutchmaster TR6</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D=
"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">I believe the fact that I am using the TR4A-6 flywheel and bolt-on r=
ing
gear drives the need for the long starter.&nbsp; Any help in confirming this=
 would
be appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">While this combination has been in place for at least 10 years, I do=

get times when the starter spins up, but does not =E2=80=9Ccatch=E2=80=9D th=
e ring
gear, so it does not turn over the engine.&nbsp; Restarting always catches, a=
lthough
sometimes this could take a few tries.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve always thought thi=
s was
the starter needed an overhaul, but have not taken the time to pull it and
see.&nbsp; The starter pinion and ring gear never crunch.&nbsp; It either
engages well or not, although it may engage and =E2=80=9Cslip out=E2=80=9D o=
ccasionally.&nbsp;
This non-engagement gets worse with decreasing temperature.&nbsp; On a 40
degree day, I have tried over 15 starts before it=E2=80=99ll catch.&nbsp; Th=
is is
unacceptable.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">I want to be sure this is a starter problem and not a component prob=
lem
before I install a new starter and potentially cause problems.</span></font>=
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Also, any help on figuring out the non-engagement and slipping issue=
s
would be great. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Just for grins, is there any way to tell which starter is installed w=
ithout
pulling it out?&nbsp; It=E2=80=99s been a while.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt">Jack</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=
=3D"font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"htt=
p://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span=
><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span>Forums: <a href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a></span><br><span>=
[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ablake2@austin=
.rr.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote><=
/body></html>=

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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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---

From: Jack Brooks via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 11:31:06 -0700

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I appreciate your chiming in.  Mine will engage most of the time.  Based on
what I have heard, I will get the gear reduction starter and install it this
summer.

Thanks Greg.

Jack

  _____  

From: Greg And Alison Blake [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 9:08 AM
To: Jack Brooks
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 starter issue

Jack,

I had a similar starter issue back when the 3 was a street car it had the
symptoms that you describe. It was an internal fault in the starter. From
what I remember there was a bushing that had degraded over time that was
causing the starter to not engage. It was spin just fine but could not
engage an turn the motor over. 

Sorry, can't answer the other questions. 

On May 22, 2015, at 7:56 PM, Jack Brooks via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

Amici,

I am finally looking to install a gear reduction starter in my (post 60K)
Street/Auto-X  TR3A.  I believe I need the long later starter, as that is
what is in the car, but I have some function issues which I do not
understand.  My configuration is as follows:

Block:  TR4

Tranny: TR3, non-syncro OD.  The small starter bulge on the tranny has been
modified/extended to accommodate the longer starter.  The hole is covered to
keep dirt and moisture out.

Clutch:  Clutchmaster TR6

I believe the fact that I am using the TR4A-6 flywheel and bolt-on ring gear
drives the need for the long starter.  Any help in confirming this would be
appreciated. 

While this combination has been in place for at least 10 years, I do get
times when the starter spins up, but does not "catch" the ring gear, so it
does not turn over the engine.  Restarting always catches, although
sometimes this could take a few tries.  I've always thought this was the
starter needed an overhaul, but have not taken the time to pull it and see.
The starter pinion and ring gear never crunch.  It either engages well or
not, although it may engage and "slip out" occasionally.  This
non-engagement gets worse with decreasing temperature.  On a 40 degree day,
I have tried over 15 starts before it'll catch.  This is unacceptable.  

I want to be sure this is a starter problem and not a component problem
before I install a new starter and potentially cause problems.

Also, any help on figuring out the non-engagement and slipping issues would
be great.  

Just for grins, is there any way to tell which starter is installed without
pulling it out?  It's been a while.

Thanks in advance,

Jack

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>I appreciate your chiming =
in.&nbsp; Mine
will engage most of the time.&nbsp; Based on what I have heard, I will =
get the gear
reduction starter and install it this =
summer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>Thanks =
Greg.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>Jack<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Greg =
And Alison
Blake [mailto:[email-masked]] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 23, =
2015 9:08
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Jack Brooks<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fot] TR3/4 =
starter
issue</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Jack,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I had a similar starter issue back when the 3 was a street car =
it had
the symptoms that you describe. It was an internal fault in the starter. =
From
what I remember there was a bushing that had degraded over time that was
causing the starter to not engage. It was spin just fine but could not =
engage
an turn the motor over.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Sorry, can't =
answer the
other questions.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
On May 22, 2015, at 7:56 PM, Jack Brooks via Fot &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Amici,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I am finally looking to install a gear reduction starter in my =
(post
60K) Street/Auto-X &nbsp;TR3A.&nbsp; I believe I need the long later =
starter,
as that is what is in the car, but I have some function issues which I =
do not
understand.&nbsp; My configuration is as =
follows:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Block: &nbsp;TR4<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Tranny: TR3, non-syncro OD.&nbsp; The small starter bulge on the =
tranny
has been modified/extended to accommodate the longer starter.&nbsp; The =
hole is
covered to keep dirt and moisture out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Flywheel: TR4A-6 style, with bolt on ring gear, lightened to 22 =
pounds <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Clutch:&nbsp; Clutchmaster TR6<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I believe the fact that I am using the TR4A-6 flywheel and =
bolt-on ring
gear drives the need for the long starter.&nbsp; Any help in confirming =
this
would be appreciated. <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>While this combination has been in place for at least 10 years, =
I do
get times when the starter spins up, but does not &#8220;catch&#8221; =
the ring
gear, so it does not turn over the engine.&nbsp; Restarting always =
catches,
although sometimes this could take a few tries.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve always =
thought
this was the starter needed an overhaul, but have not taken the time to =
pull it
and see.&nbsp; The starter pinion and ring gear never crunch.&nbsp; It =
either
engages well or not, although it may engage and &#8220;slip out&#8221;
occasionally.&nbsp; This non-engagement gets worse with decreasing
temperature.&nbsp; On a 40 degree day, I have tried over 15 starts =
before
it&#8217;ll catch.&nbsp; This is unacceptable.&nbsp; =
<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I want to be sure this is a starter problem and not a component =
problem
before I install a new starter and potentially cause =
problems.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Also, any help on figuring out the non-engagement and slipping =
issues
would be great. &nbsp;<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Just for grins, is there any way to tell which starter is =
installed
without pulling it out?&nbsp; It&#8217;s been a while.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Jack<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=3Dcite>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>______________________________________________=
_<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>
Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">=
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From: John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 18:09:34 -0400

--===============7951568035238328708==

--001a1130d45e2c76460516c708ae
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Jack, take the old starter off and use it for a boat anchor. You will not
be disappointed by the gear reduction unit. I'm using a Hi Torque gear
reduction starter made by Performance Products, Inc. I have had no
engagement problems whatsoever with the TR4A starter ring installed on a
Fidanza aluminum flywheel with the ring in the factory position.  I was
running an old TR2 gearbox and there are no clearance issues. If you order
this starter, make sure that the unit has the upgraded billet aluminum
mounting flange. The starter I purchased came with the cast aluminum piece
and one of the mounting ears broke off from engine vibration.  The billet
piece has worked fine so far. It was a bearcat to replace. Basically had to
take the whole starter apart.

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Jack Brooks via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Tranny: TR3, non-syncro OD.  The small starter bulge on the tranny has
> been modified/extended to accommodate the longer starter.  The hole is
> covered to keep dirt and moisture out.
>
> I believe the fact that I am using the TR4A-6 flywheel and bolt-on ring
> gear drives the need for the long starter.  Any help in confirming this
> would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> times when the starter spins up, but does not =E2=80=9Ccatch=E2=80=9D the=
 ring gear, so it
> sometimes this could take a few tries.  I=E2=80=99ve always thought this =
was the
> starter needed an overhaul, but have not taken the time to pull it and
> see.  The starter pinion and ring gear never crunch.  It either engages
> well or not, although it may engage and =E2=80=9Cslip out=E2=80=9D occasi=
onally.  This
> non-engagement gets worse with decreasing temperature.  On a 40 degree da=
y,
> I have tried over 15 starts before it=E2=80=99ll catch.  This is unaccept=
able.
> Also, any help on figuring out the non-engagement and slipping issues
> would be great.
>
>
>
> Just for grins, is there any way to tell which starter is installed
> without pulling it out?  It=E2=80=99s been a while.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
>

--001a1130d45e2c76460516c708ae
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Jac=
k, take the old starter off and use it for a boat anchor. You will not be d=
isappointed by the gear reduction unit. I&#39;m using a Hi Torque gear redu=
ction starter made by Performance Products, Inc. I have had no engagement p=
roblems whatsoever with the TR4A starter ring installed on a Fidanza alumin=
um flywheel with the ring in the factory position.=C2=A0 I was running an o=
ld TR2 gearbox and there are no clearance issues. If you order this starter=
, make sure that the unit has the upgraded billet aluminum mounting flange.=
 The starter I purchased came with the cast aluminum piece and one of the m=
ounting ears broke off from engine vibration.=C2=A0 The billet piece has wo=
rked fine so far. It was a bearcat to replace. Basically had to take the wh=
ole starter apart.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-si=
ze:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Jack Brooks via Fot <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Amici,</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=C2=A0</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">I am finally looking to install a gear reduction sta=
rter in my (post
60K) Street/Auto-X =C2=A0TR3A.=C2=A0 I believe I need the long later starte=
r,
as that is what is in the car, but I have some function issues which I do n=
ot
understand.=C2=A0 My configuration is as follows:</span></font><font size=
=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=C2=A0</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Block: =C2=A0TR4</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=
=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u=
></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Tranny: TR3, non-syncro OD.=C2=A0 The small starter =
bulge on the tranny
has been modified/extended to accommodate the longer starter.=C2=A0 The hol=
e is
covered to keep dirt and moisture out.</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=
=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u=
></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Flywheel: TR4A-6 style, with bolt on ring gear, ligh=
tened to 22 pounds </span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Clutch:=C2=A0 Clutchmaster TR6</span></font><font si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calib=
ri"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">I believe the fact that I am using the TR4A-6 flywhe=
el and bolt-on ring
gear drives the need for the long starter.=C2=A0 Any help in confirming thi=
s would
be appreciated. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">While this combination has been in place for at leas=
t 10 years, I do
get times when the starter spins up, but does not =E2=80=9Ccatch=E2=80=9D t=
he ring
gear, so it does not turn over the engine.=C2=A0 Restarting always catches,=
 although
sometimes this could take a few tries.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve always thought th=
is was
the starter needed an overhaul, but have not taken the time to pull it and
see.=C2=A0 The starter pinion and ring gear never crunch.=C2=A0 It either
engages well or not, although it may engage and =E2=80=9Cslip out=E2=80=9D =
occasionally.=C2=A0
This non-engagement gets worse with decreasing temperature.=C2=A0 On a 40
degree day, I have tried over 15 starts before it=E2=80=99ll catch.=C2=A0 T=
his is
unacceptable.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">I want to be sure this is a starter problem and not =
a component problem
before I install a new starter and potentially cause problems.</span></font=
><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=C2=A0</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Also, any help on figuring out the non-engagement an=
d slipping issues
would be great. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=C2=A0</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Just for grins, is there any way to tell which start=
er is installed without
pulling it out?=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s been a while.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,</span></font><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#8888=
88"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span></font></font></span></p><span class=
=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">=C2=A0</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Jack</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>

</font></span></div>

</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a><br>
<br>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a><br>
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/=
fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Jack Brooks via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 15:29:26 -0700

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John,

Thanks for sharing your experience with the cast vs. billet flanges.  I
would prefer to avoid that task.  Pulling a generator apart was not fun.  I
will be moving forward with a new starter this summer.

Jack

  _____  

From: John Styduhar [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 3:10 PM
To: Jack Brooks
Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 starter issue

Jack, take the old starter off and use it for a boat anchor. You will not be
disappointed by the gear reduction unit. I'm using a Hi Torque gear

Amici,

Block:  TR4

Clutch:  Clutchmaster TR6

Thanks in advance,

Jack

 

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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">

</head>

<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>Thanks for sharing your experience =
with the
cast vs. billet flanges.&nbsp; I would prefer to avoid that task.&nbsp; =
Pulling a
generator apart was not fun.&nbsp; I will be moving forward with a new =
starter this
summer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> John =
Styduhar
[mailto:[email-masked]] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 23, =
2015 3:10
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Jack Brooks<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Triumph 'Friends of =
Triumph<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fot] TR3/4 =
starter
issue</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Jack, take the old starter off and use it for a boat anchor. You =
will
not be disappointed by the gear reduction unit. I'm using a Hi Torque =
gear
reduction starter made by Performance Products, Inc. I have had no =
engagement
problems whatsoever with the TR4A starter ring installed on a Fidanza =
aluminum
flywheel with the ring in the factory position.&nbsp; I was running an =
old TR2
gearbox and there are no clearance issues. If you order this starter, =
make sure
that the unit has the upgraded billet aluminum mounting flange. The =
starter I
purchased came with the cast aluminum piece and one of the mounting ears =
broke
off from engine vibration.&nbsp; The billet piece has worked fine so =
far. It
was a bearcat to replace. Basically had to take the whole starter =
apart.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Jack Brooks via Fot &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Amici,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I am =
finally
looking to install a gear reduction starter in my (post 60K) =
Street/Auto-X
&nbsp;TR3A.&nbsp; I believe I need the long later starter, as that is =
what is
in the car, but I have some function issues which I do not =
understand.&nbsp; My
configuration is as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Block: &nbsp;TR4<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Tranny: TR3,
non-syncro OD.&nbsp; The small starter bulge on the tranny has been
modified/extended to accommodate the longer starter.&nbsp; The hole is =
covered
to keep dirt and moisture out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Flywheel: TR4A-6
style, with bolt on ring gear, lightened to 22 pounds =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Clutch:&nbsp;
Clutchmaster TR6<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I =
believe the fact
that I am using the TR4A-6 flywheel and bolt-on ring gear drives the =
need for
the long starter.&nbsp; Any help in confirming this would be =
appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p><=
/o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>While =
this
combination has been in place for at least 10 years, I do get times when =
the
starter spins up, but does not &#8220;catch&#8221; the ring gear, so it =
does not turn over
the engine.&nbsp; Restarting always catches, although sometimes this =
could take
a few tries.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve always thought this was the starter needed =
an overhaul,
but have not taken the time to pull it and see.&nbsp; The starter pinion =
and
ring gear never crunch.&nbsp; It either engages well or not, although it =
may
engage and &#8220;slip out&#8221; occasionally.&nbsp; This =
non-engagement gets worse with
decreasing temperature.&nbsp; On a 40 degree day, I have tried over 15 =
starts before
it&#8217;ll catch.&nbsp; This is unacceptable.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I =
want to be sure
this is a starter problem and not a component problem before I install a =
new
starter and potentially cause problems.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Also, =
any help on
figuring out the non-engagement and slipping issues would be great. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Just =
for grins, is
there any way to tell which starter is installed without pulling it =
out?&nbsp;
It&#8217;s been a while.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 color=3D"#888888" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:#888888'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 color=3D"#888888" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:#888888'>Jack<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 color=3D"#888888" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:#888888'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]"
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/johnstydo@gma=
il.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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