Subject: Re: [Fot] valve train

From: Ted Schumacher <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 09:27:07 -0400

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John, you fell victim to the "someone sold the wrong Ford lifter" 
problem. We have run into this a couple times where the lifter cup and 
push rod ball don't "like each other".  We supply roller rockers 
($285/set), hardened shaft ($69) and tubular alloy pushrods ($69.95).  
Pushrods available in 2 different tube diameters - 5/16"and 3/8" and 
whatever length needed.. We will also produce billet pedestals if you 
want. A caution about the use of needle bearing pivots in the rocker 
arm. Needle bearings, by design, allow oil to "fall out"of the bearings. 
And they are extremely hard. Needle bearings are great support for a 
rotating device such as a shaft where it rotates completely. But, a 
rocker arm only moves through a small part of an arc and can cause 
excessive wear to shaft. Our roller rockers are bushed with a design 
that forces oil to lube both the roller tip and pushrod cup. Please let 
me  now if we can help. Thanks, Ted

On 9/16/2013 7:50 PM, John Wagner wrote:
>     As some of you might know the purple TR3 had it's share of valve 
> train problems at RA. Turns out the plug in the rocker shaft came 
> loose and starved no. 1 rocker arm, we missed the K cup S---. But 
> thanks to Joe we were able to make the group 2 race. After some  close 
> inspection of all related parts, I found  something interesting. We 
> use .875 FE block Ford lifters (352-428) This lifters has a 5/16 dia. 
> push rod cup,triumph push rod are much larger, closer to 1/2 dia.  The 
> triumph push rods never created a problem but it is not right. The 
> push rods have no sign of ware, other then a shinny ring. For all of 
> you that use |Ford lifters You might want to check this. Our plan know 
> is to up grade to roller rockers and new push rods. I talked to 
> Richard Good about a complete assembly for TR2-4. He has rockers and 
> shafts but no pedestals,"BUT" he is willing to design and build billet 
> pedestals. So If anyone out there in FOT land that might be interested 
> in a kit or just new "Good" pedestals send him a note.
>     Now for the big question, Ford used two types of lifters the shell 
> type,like we use or a solid ,hour glass style with about a 1.5in. 
> shorter push rod, so if we have to replace push rods, why not go with 
> the solid lifters (about $80),yes there are a little heavier,but the 
> rod will be lighter and much more stronger. WHAT SAY YOU.
>
>      Thank you
>      John Wagner
>      Just the wrench
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> [email-masked]
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>
>

-- 
Ted Schumacher
[email-masked]
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">John, you fell victim to the "someone
      sold the wrong Ford lifter" problem. We have run into this a&nbsp;
      couple times where the lifter cup and push rod ball don't "like
      each other".&nbsp; We supply roller rockers ($285/set), hardened shaft
      ($69) and tubular alloy pushrods ($69.95).&nbsp; Pushrods available in
      2 different tube diameters - 5/16"and 3/8" and whatever length
      needed.. We will also produce billet pedestals if you want. A
      caution about the use of needle bearing pivots in the rocker arm.&nbsp;
      Needle bearings, by design, allow oil to "fall out"of the
      bearings. And they are extremely hard. Needle bearings are great
      support for a rotating device such as a shaft where it rotates
      completely. But, a rocker arm only moves through a small part of
      an arc and can cause excessive wear to shaft. Our roller rockers
      are bushed with a design that forces oil to lube both the roller
      tip and pushrod cup. Please let me&nbsp; now if we can help. Thanks,
      Ted<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 9/16/2013 7:50 PM, John Wagner wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Courier
        New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
        <div>&nbsp; &nbsp; As some of you might know the purple TR3 had it's share
          of valve train problems at RA. Turns out the plug in the
          rocker shaft came loose and starved no. 1 rocker arm, we
          missed the K cup S---. But thanks to Joe we were able to make
          the group 2 race. After some &nbsp;close inspection of all related
          parts, I found &nbsp;something interesting. We use .875 FE block
          Ford lifters (352-428) This lifters has a 5/16 dia. push rod
          cup,triumph push rod are much larger, closer to 1/2 dia. &nbsp;The
          triumph push rods never created a problem but it is not right.
          The push rods have no sign of ware, other then a shinny ring.
          For all of you that use&nbsp;<span style="font-size: 12pt; ">|Ford
            lifters You might want to check this. Our plan know is to up
            grade to roller rockers and new push rods.</span><span
            style="font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp;I talked to Richard Good about a
            complete assembly for TR2-4. He has rockers and shafts but
            no pedestals,"BUT" he is willing to design and build billet
            pedestals. So If anyone out there in FOT land that might be
            interested in a kit or just new "Good" pedestals send him a
            note.&nbsp;</span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family:
          'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;
          background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span
            style="font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; Now for the big question, Ford
            used two types of lifters the shell type,like we use or a
            solid ,hour glass style with about a 1.5in. shorter push
            rod, so if we have to replace push rods, why not go with the
            solid lifters (about $80),yes there are a little heavier,but
            the rod will be lighter and much more stronger. WHAT SAY
            YOU.&nbsp;</span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
          'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;
          background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span
            style="font-size: 12pt; "><br>
          </span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
          'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;
          background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span
            style="font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Thank you</span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family:
          'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;
          background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span
            style="font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;John Wagner</span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family:
          'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;
          background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span
            style="font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Just the wrench</span></div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>
Forums: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Ted Schumacher
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com">http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com</a>
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US &amp; Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022</pre>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: John Styduhar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 10:23:54 -0400

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The problem I encountered with aftermarket billet rocker arm
pedestals and roller rockers (Harland Sharp) is the geometry of the rocker
arm movement and the resulting sweep of the roller tip over the end of the
valve stem.  The goal is to minimize sweep and center over the valve stem.
If the pedestals are not designed properly in relationship to the tip of
the valve stem, there is excessive or off-center sweep and reduce valve
opening and possible valve damage.  It's relatively easy to check roller
tip sweep.  I found that If you try to move the rocker shaft axis closer to
the valve stem to better center the sweep or reduce the sweep, the pedestal
mounting studs get in the way.  I ended up milling the base of the
pedestals to improve the centering of the sweep but sacrificed a few
thou of valve lift.   I don't think the minor increase in roller rocker
ratio had much to do with the problem.
P.S. I bought a set of custom length tubular pushrods from Ted and they are
working great.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Ted Schumacher <[email-masked]> wrote:

> whatever length needed.. We will also produce billet pedestals if you want.
> A caution about the use of needle bearing pivots in the rocker arm.  Needle
> bearings, by design, allow oil to "fall out"of the bearings. And they are
> extremely hard. Needle bearings are great support for a rotating device
> such as a shaft where it rotates completely. But, a rocker arm only moves
> through a small part of an arc and can cause excessive wear to shaft. Our
> roller rockers are bushed with a design that forces oil to lube both the
> roller tip and pushrod cup. Please let me  now if we can help. Thanks, Ted
>
>
>
> train problems at RA. Turns out the plug in the rocker shaft came loose and
> starved no. 1 rocker arm, we missed the K cup S---. But thanks to Joe we
> were able to make the group 2 race. After some  close inspection of all
> related parts, I found  something interesting. We use .875 FE block Ford
> lifters (352-428) This lifters has a 5/16 dia. push rod cup,triumph push
> rod are much larger, closer to 1/2 dia.  The triumph push rods never
> created a problem but it is not right. The push rods have no sign of ware,
> other then a shinny ring. For all of you that use |Ford lifters You might
> want to check this. Our plan know is to up grade to roller rockers and new
> push rods. I talked to Richard Good about a complete assembly for TR2-4.
> He has rockers and shafts but no pedestals,"BUT" he is willing to design
> and build billet pedestals. So If anyone out there in FOT land that might
> be interested in a kit or just new "Good" pedestals send him a note.
> type,like we use or a solid ,hour glass style with about a 1.5in. shorter
> push rod, so if we have to replace push rods, why not go with the solid
> lifters (about $80),yes there are a little heavier,but the rod will be
> lighter and much more stronger. WHAT SAY YOU.
>
>       Thank you
>      John Wagner
>      Just the wrench
>
>
> [email-masked]
> Ted [email-masked]://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
> 108 S. Jefferson St.
> Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
>

--089e01176cad1533ab04e69512e3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The problem I encountered with aftermarket billet roc=
ker arm pedestals=A0and=A0roller rockers (Harland Sharp) is the geometry of=
 the rocker arm=A0movement and the resulting sweep of the roller tip over t=
he end of the valve stem.=A0=A0The goal is to minimize sweep and center ove=
r the valve stem.=A0 If the pedestals are not designed properly in=A0relati=
onship to the tip of the valve stem, there is excessive or off-center=A0swe=
ep=A0and reduce valve opening and possible valve damage.=A0 It&#39;s relati=
vely easy to check roller tip sweep. =A0I found that If you try to move the=
 rocker shaft axis closer to the valve stem to better center the sweep=A0or=
 reduce the sweep,=A0the pedestal mounting studs get in the way.=A0 I ended=
 up milling the base of the pedestals to improve the centering of the sweep=
 but sacrificed a few thou=A0of=A0valve lift.=A0 =A0I don&#39;t think the m=
inor increase in roller rocker ratio had much to do with the problem.</div>
<div>P.S. I bought a set of custom length tubular pushrods from Ted and the=
y are working great.=A0 </div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Ted Schumacher <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <div>John, you fell victim to the &quot;someone
      sold the wrong Ford lifter&quot; problem. We have run into this a=A0
      couple times where the lifter cup and push rod ball don&#39;t &quot;l=
ike
      each other&quot;.=A0 We supply roller rockers ($285/set), hardened sh=
aft
      ($69) and tubular alloy pushrods ($69.95).=A0 Pushrods available in
      2 different tube diameters - 5/16&quot;and 3/8&quot; and whatever len=
gth
      needed.. We will also produce billet pedestals if you want. A
      caution about the use of needle bearing pivots in the rocker arm.=A0
      Needle bearings, by design, allow oil to &quot;fall out&quot;of the
      bearings. And they are extremely hard. Needle bearings are great
      support for a rotating device such as a shaft where it rotates
      completely. But, a rocker arm only moves through a small part of
      an arc and can cause excessive wear to shaft. Our roller rockers
      are bushed with a design that forces oil to lube both the roller
      tip and pushrod cup. Please let me=A0 now if we can help. Thanks,
      Ted<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 9/16/2013 7:50 PM, John Wagner wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"h5">
      <div style=3D"font-family:Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-s=
erif;font-size:12pt">
        <div>=A0 =A0 As some of you might know the purple TR3 had it&#39;s =
share
          of valve train problems at RA. Turns out the plug in the
          rocker shaft came loose and starved no. 1 rocker arm, we
          missed the K cup S---. But thanks to Joe we were able to make
          the group 2 race. After some =A0close inspection of all related
          parts, I found =A0something interesting. We use .875 FE block
          Ford lifters (352-428) This lifters has a 5/16 dia. push rod
          cup,triumph push rod are much larger, closer to 1/2 dia. =A0The
          triumph push rods never created a problem but it is not right.
          The push rods have no sign of ware, other then a shinny ring.
          For all of you that use=A0<span style=3D"font-size:12pt">|Ford
            lifters You might want to check this. Our plan know is to up
            grade to roller rockers and new push rods.</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12pt">=A0I talked to Richard Good about a
            complete assembly for TR2-4. He has rockers and shafts but
            no pedestals,&quot;BUT&quot; he is willing to design and build =
billet
            pedestals. So If anyone out there in FOT land that might be
            interested in a kit or just new &quot;Good&quot; pedestals send=
 him a
            note.=A0</span></div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,courier,monaco,mo=
nospace,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;font-style:normal;background-color:transp=
arent"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=A0 =A0 Now for the big question, For=
d
            used two types of lifters the shell type,like we use or a
            solid ,hour glass style with about a 1.5in. shorter push
            rod, so if we have to replace push rods, why not go with the
            solid lifters (about $80),yes there are a little heavier,but
            the rod will be lighter and much more stronger. WHAT SAY
            YOU.=A0</span></div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,courier,monaco,mo=
nospace,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transp=
arent"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,courier,monaco,mo=
nospace,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transp=
arent"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=A0 =A0 =A0Thank you</span></div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,courier,monaco,mo=
nospace,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;font-style:normal;background-color:transp=
arent"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=A0 =A0 =A0John Wagner</span></div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,courier,monaco,mo=
nospace,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;font-style:normal;background-color:transp=
arent"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=A0 =A0 =A0Just the wrench</span></di=
v>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      </div></div><pre>_______________________________________________
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>

<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a>

//www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a>
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fot/[email-masked]</a>

</pre><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
    </font></span></blockquote><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#88888=
8">
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre cols=3D"72">--=20
Ted Schumacher
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a>
<a href=3D"http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.tsimportedautomotive.com</a>
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: <a href=3D"tel:419.384.3272" target=3D"_blank" value=3D"+14193843272">=
419.384.3272</a> (24 Hrs.)
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:800.543.6648" target=3D"_blank" value=3D"+18005436648=
">800.543.6648</a> (US &amp; Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: <a href=3D"tel:419.384.3022" target=3D"_=
blank" value=3D"+14193843022">419.384.3022</a></pre>
  </font></span></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
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ng.com</a><br>
<br>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
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Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a><br>
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/=
fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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