From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 05:23:23 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: REK46@aol.com, cartravel@pobox.com, 19to1tr6@comcast.net, Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 07:17:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] bumpstear Yes both are Fred Puhns books & both are very good. "How to Make Your Car Handle" & "the Brake Handbook". Glen -----Original Message----- From: REK46@aol.com To: cartravel@pobox.com; 19to1tr6@comcast.net; fot@autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 6:27 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] bumpstear Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot of his photos were Spits brakes ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)____________________ ___________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 05:54:06 2008 From: "Craig" To: "rob" <19to1tr6@comcast.net>, Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:53:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] bumpstear This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0744355845== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01C9239A.BD67C500" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C9239A.BD67C500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two of the best books that I've have read. Chassis Adjustment Analysis and Vehicle Handling & Control (if you can = find them) Craig=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: rob=20 To: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: [Fot] bumpstear had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its time = to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This weekends = issue was caused buy unequal caster. I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and had = the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor some = string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment machine=20 I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating bumpstear = and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps thanks for = the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of = the others were not working or spotty =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C9239A.BD67C500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Two of the best books that I've have=20 read.
Chassis Adjustment Analysis and Vehicle = Handling=20 & Control (if you can find them)
Craig 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 rob=20
To: fot@autox.team.net
Sent: Monday, September 29, = 2008 8:48=20 PM
Subject: [Fot] bumpstear

had  a little trouble under = bracking this=20 weekend and decided its time to try and understand and messure its = presant=20 bumpstear.  This weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster.
 
I have had good results = with setting camber,toe and caster  and = had the=20 set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor = some string=20 and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment machine =
 
I would like to get a list of = books for info=20 on calculating bumpstear and figureing=20 rollcenter.         = thanks  =20 rob          Ps thanks = for the=20 feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of the = others=20 were not working or spotty  

_______________________________________________
Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

F= ot=20 mailing=20 = list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<= BR>
------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C9239A.BD67C500-- --===============0744355845== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0744355845==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 06:54:58 2008 From: Ernest Husmann To: dkettler@tcbi.com Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 05:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question --===============1587503740== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2126131927-1222864506=:79709" --0-2126131927-1222864506=:79709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave: =A0 That's the way I remember it as well but I couldn't find anything to suppor= t that.=A0 maybe we should ask King Richard. =A0 Ernie --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler wrote: I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler =0A=0A=0A --0-2126131927-1222864506=:79709 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dave:
 
That's the way I remember it as well but I couldn't find anything to support that.  maybe we should ask King Richard.
 
Ernie

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com> wrote:
I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

--0-2126131927-1222864506=:79709-- --===============1587503740== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1587503740==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 08:57:02 2008 From: "Mark York" To: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:26:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3 Brake restrictor valve This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1595861479== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01C92397.10897ED0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C92397.10897ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amici A quick question to the TR3 gang, I understand that the new Girling master brake cylinders already have the restrictor valves built in to them. Does that mean I can remove the old restrictor valve that screws in to the top of the 5-way union? Thank you Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C92397.10897ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Amici

A quick question to the TR3 gang, I understand that the new Girling master = brake cylinders already have the restrictor valves built in to them. Does that = mean I can remove the old restrictor valve that screws in to the top of the = 5-way union?

Thank you

Mark

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C92397.10897ED0-- --===============1595861479== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1595861479==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 09:45:36 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Mark York" Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 08:19:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 Brake restrictor valve --===============0016602919== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-105--245962592 --Apple-Mail-105--245962592 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's not a restrictor valve, it's a residual pressure valve, and I don't know whether or not Girlings have the valves in them, most Tilton M/Cs do, but you need to check. Especially if you use them for clutches since you absolutely don't want residual pressure. If you have uprated axles you might not need residual pressure valves as much, since the pads won't be knocked back so readily by axle flex. Generally people don't put residual pressure valves on drum brakes, though it's not a terrible thing. I had a five pound RP valve on Peyote's rear brakes for awhile and it reduced pedal travel without causing drag. I used 15 pounds on the front. I don't think there's anything on it right now, but it's at Tony's so I'm not sure. On Oct 1, 2008, at 7:26 AM, Mark York wrote: > Amici > A quick question to the TR3 gang, I understand that the new Girling > master brake cylinders already have the restrictor valves built in > to them. Does that mean I can remove the old restrictor valve that > screws in to the top of the 5-way union? > Thank you > Mark > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog --Apple-Mail-105--245962592 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's not a restrictor valve, = it's a residual pressure valve, and I don't know whether or not Girlings = have the valves in them, most Tilton M/Cs do, but you need to check. = Especially if you use them for clutches since you absolutely don't want = residual pressure.  If you have uprated axles you might not need = residual pressure valves as much, since the pads won't be knocked back = so readily by axle flex. 

Generally people don't = put residual pressure valves on drum brakes, though it's not a terrible = thing. I had a five pound RP valve on Peyote's rear brakes for awhile = and it reduced pedal travel without causing drag. I used 15 pounds on = the front. I don't think there's anything on it right now, but it's at = Tony's so I'm not = sure. 

 
On Oct 1, 2008, = at 7:26 AM, Mark York wrote:

Amici
A quick = question to the TR3 gang, I understand that the new Girling master brake = cylinders already have the restrictor valves built in to them. Does that = mean I can remove the old restrictor valve that screws in to the top of = the 5-way union?
Thank = you
= --Apple-Mail-105--245962592-- --===============0016602919== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0016602919==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 09:46:12 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: kaskas@cox.net Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:21:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman & Jan Alexander Kas, You, Susan, and Richard sure are bringing a great smile to Jan's face. She deserves the attention. = It makes my Triumph run faster, too. Joe A >I've still got a snap shot of Paul giving me a birthday cake at Limerock t= hat he just took from the trunk of his car on a Trans-Am weekend when I was= with Nissan. =A0Neat guy, fast driver and just a wonderful guy to hang wit= h. > >I might add that Jan Alexander repeated this action with a birthday cake f= or me at Watkins Glen, and she is pretty cute too. > =A0----- Original Message ----- > =A0From: robert bownes > =A0To: Joe Boruch > =A0Cc: lcouperin@hotmail.com ; enichol@bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl@bel= lsouth.net ; leetheviolinist@gmail.com ; rltaylor3@gmail.com ; nancy_mitchc= o@hotmail.com ; fot@autox.team.net ; ruthie.taylor@gmail.com > =A0Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:20 PM > =A0Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman > > > > =A0I met PL at a driver's meeting @ LRP too. He was there in 99 or so at = a National. Showed up at the driver's meeting just like the rest of us. Mos= tly listened to the Stewards say the same old stuff with about the same amo= unt of attention. Making the same small race talk with everyone around him.= Amazing guy. > > =A0Later I was up in the tower watching a race (FF's I think) and he wand= ered up. We made a few comments about a few great pass attempts and success= es going on. > > =A0A racer just like the rest of us. Just with a different day job. > > > =A02008/9/28 Joe Boruch > > =A0 =A0I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some= years ago. =A0That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. =A0He w= as very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. =A0My w= ife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Ne= wman. =A0He replied "Call me Paul". =A0His wife and daughter were often up = in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. =A0He was s= till racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the Nat= ional races that he did in previous years. =A0He was still winning, too. = =A0It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a = track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. =A0She was doing a story about livin= g a long life. > > > =A0 =A0-- "Richard Taylor" wrote: > > =A0 =A0Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the l= obby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona Inte= rnational Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-= exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes= he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders = a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for= his beer and the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the hous= e." > > > > =A0 =A0The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I = am?" =A0 He says, "No, who are you?" > > > > =A0 =A0I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" > > > > =A0 =A0The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be= $3.50." > > > > =A0 =A0Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my = change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; t= o which they all laugh their collective asses off. > > > > =A0 =A0Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but som= ehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of r= acers. > > > > =A0 =A0If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my = mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. > > > > =A0 =A0Richard > > > > > > =A0 =A0____________________________________________________________ > =A0 =A0Fashion Design Education - Click Here! > > =A0 =A0_______________________________________________ > =A0 =A0Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > =A0 =A0http://www.fot-racing.com > > =A0 =A0Fot mailing list > =A0 =A0Fot@autox.team.net > =A0 =A0http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > > > =A0_______________________________________________ > =A0Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > =A0http://www.fot-racing.com > > =A0Fot mailing list > =A0Fot@autox.team.net > =A0http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 11:15:58 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com, dkettler@tcbi.com Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question --===============0397249994== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-92590077-1222879480=:76074" --0-92590077-1222879480=:76074 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call to t= heir H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we should = assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleu= m. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in f= act true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short time un= til Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer be= ing a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. departmen= t, they have the longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! =A0-Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=A0 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test=A0driver for Studebaker= =20 the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then=A0renamed= =20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from=A0The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate=A0this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,=A0 and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed -=A0_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --0-92590077-1222879480=:76074 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the longest commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com> wrote:
From: David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>, edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann <ehusmann53@yahoo.com> 
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP = Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On 
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September 
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known 
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product 
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave 
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker 
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed 
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of 
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most 
say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying 
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know 
the "true" side of the story? 
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great 
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car 
show we had. 
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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--0-92590077-1222879480=:76074-- --===============0397249994== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0397249994==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 18:30:58 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:04:11 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1522444929== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01C92400.DF317490" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C92400.DF317490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a = passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. = They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their = cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall = ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek = Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an = atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred = to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the = main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by = side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and = projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars = with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. = He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to = school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are = emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the = overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed = inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning = oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads = me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or = intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of = the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true = meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. = A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed = what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for = Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for = Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their = name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the = Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the = company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the = longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker = the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C92400.DF317490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of my neighborhood friends growing = up was a=20 Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt = inherited from=20 his dad. They would work into the night in the carport on one or another = of=20 their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I = recall=20 ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek = Silver=20 Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an atypical = American=20 sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as=20 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the main pasture of which was lined = with over=20 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the countryside = and=20 carefully placed side by side around the perimeter, providing an = endless=20 supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who = carpeted=20 his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring = company.=20 He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to = school.=20 Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are emblazoned = in my=20 memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, = activated by=20 a little toggle switch always placed inconspicuously under the = dash.=20 Another was their propensity for burning oil, which meant that the = dipstick=20 became a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a=20 result of unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse, = cans of=20 STP were always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with quarts = of=20 inexpensive motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, "Studebaker = Tested=20 Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From:=20 EDWARD BARNARD
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2008 3:44=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about = STP. A=20 call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has = revealed=20 what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for=20 Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it = standing for=20 Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie = their=20 name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. = But, the=20 Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for = the=20 company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have = the=20 longest commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David=20 Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] = Non-LBC=20 group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: "FOT"=20 <fot@autox.team.net>, edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date: = Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall when =
I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =
<ehusmann53@yahoo.com>=20
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] =
Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September=20
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for =
Studebaker=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he =
then renamed=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most =

say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three =
great=20
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car=20
show we had.=20
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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_______________________________________________
Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<= BR>
------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C92400.DF317490-- --===============1522444929== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1522444929==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 19:30:55 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Steven Preiss" , Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 18:12:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1348729900== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010D_01C923F1.4AEB87D0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C923F1.4AEB87D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden = Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly = 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a = movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the = cars that added to the racing bug Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Preiss=20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a = passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. = They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their = cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall = ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek = Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an = atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred = to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the = main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by = side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and = projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars = with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. = He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to = school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are = emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the = overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed = inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning = oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads = me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or = intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of = the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true = meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about = STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has = revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for = Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for = Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their = name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the = Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the = company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the = longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker = the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C923F1.4AEB87D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of my favorite cars for Style was = the (I think=20 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were = literaly=20 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a = movie=20 which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the cars that = added=20 to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steven=20 Preiss
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 2:04=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my neighborhood friends = growing up was a=20 Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt = inherited from=20 his dad. They would work into the night in the carport on one or = another of=20 their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as = I=20 recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, = to a=20 sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in = an=20 atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what = they=20 referred to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small = dairy=20 farm, the main pasture of = which was lined=20 with over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the=20 countryside and carefully placed side by side around the perimeter,=20 providing an endless supply of parts and projects. Martin was a = somewhat=20 laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" = gleaned=20 from a local flooring company. He also was the first in our group of=20 carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides down narrow = curving=20 residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One striking = characteristic=20 of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch=20 always placed inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their=20 propensity for burning oil, which meant that the dipstick became a = familiar=20 friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a result of=20 unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse, cans of STP = were always=20 kept in the trunks of the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive = motor=20 oil, giving true meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested=20 Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From:=20 EDWARD BARNARD
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2008 3:44=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question = about STP. A=20 call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has = revealed=20 what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for=20 Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it = standing=20 for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company = did tie=20 their name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took = over.=20 But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a = spokeperson=20 for the company is false. According to the P.R. department, = they have=20 the longest commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David=20 Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: = [Fot]=20 Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: = "FOT"=20 <fot@autox.team.net>, = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date:=20 Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall =
when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =
<ehusmann53@yahoo.com>=20
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] =
Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September=20
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for =
Studebaker=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he =
then renamed=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most =

say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three =
great=20
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car=20
show we had.=20
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C923F1.4AEB87D0-- --===============1348729900== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1348729900==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 21:17:07 2008 From: "Robert Johns" To: "RACER BUD" , "Steven Preiss" , Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:45:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Studebaker stories This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1789899024== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C92417.64289A00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C92417.64289A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All right guys, you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my = tale of woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club = Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956. After we attended = classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bunches) to do some = racing.=20 After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of the = Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of such = things? I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck in = the class with me, one of these monsters. =20 Off we went, racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2, the = Stude (model?) Hawk, and several more interesting pieces of iron. That = Stude would blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass = him on the next set of curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I = finally got far enough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again.=20 =20 Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only = experience of running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M, but S). = They were not many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one, = and it ran very well, with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. Any ways, that is my Studebaker story. =20 =20 Bob Johns ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RACER BUD=20 To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden = Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly = 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a = movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the = cars that added to the racing bug Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Preiss=20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a = passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. = They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their = cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall = ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek = Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an = atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred = to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the = main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by = side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and = projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars = with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. = He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to = school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are = emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the = overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed = inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning = oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads = me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or = intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of = the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true = meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about = STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has = revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for = Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for = Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their = name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the = Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the = company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the = longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler = wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker = the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C92417.64289A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All right guys, you have done it.  = I am going=20 to have to tell you my tale of woe.  Visualize this!  I was = attending=20 the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956.  = After=20 we attended classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bunches) to = do some=20 racing. 
 
After Studebaker had merged with = Packard, they=20 built a variation of the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the=20 day.  What did I know of such things?   I was stuck in = Europe at=20 the time.  Guess what they stuck in the class with me, one of these = monsters.  
 
Off we went, racing our little = hearts=20 out.  Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, and = several more=20 interesting pieces of iron.  That Stude would blow my doors = off going=20 down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of curves.  = Back and=20 forth we went, and I think I finally got far enough ahead of him = that he=20 didn't catch me again. 
  
Speaking of interesting iron.  = That race was=20 my first and only experience of running against a genuine Austin = Healy S=20 (not M,  but S).  They were not many built, and the Importer = for=20 Switzerland had this one, and it ran very well,  with its cross = flow head=20 and lots of tricks.
 
Any ways,  that is my Studebaker = story.=20  
 
Bob Johns
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RACER BUD=20
To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 9:12=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my favorite cars for Style was = the (I=20 think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they = were=20 literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby = promoting a=20 movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the = cars that=20 added to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steven=20 Preiss
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 2:04=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my neighborhood friends = growing up was a=20 Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt = inherited=20 from his dad. They would work into the night in the carport on one = or=20 another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The=20 cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted = red=20 with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, = always=20 seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of way. A buddy = of=20 theirs had what they referred to as 'the Studebaker farm', = which was=20 actually a small dairy farm, = the main=20 pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in=20 from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by side = around the=20 perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and projects. = Martin=20 was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of = carpet=20 "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. He also was the = first in our=20 group of carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides = down=20 narrow curving residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One = striking=20 characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a little = toggle=20 switch always placed inconspicuously under the dash. Another = was their=20 propensity for burning oil, which meant that the dipstick became a = familiar=20 friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a result of=20 unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse, cans of STP = were=20 always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with quarts of = inexpensive=20 motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested=20 Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From:=20 EDWARD BARNARD =
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2008 3:44=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question = about STP.=20 A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning = has=20 revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does = stand for=20 Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it = standing=20 for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company = did tie=20 their name to the product for a short time until Andy G. = took over.=20 But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a=20 spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R.=20 department, they have the longest commercial endorse in = history.=20
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David=20 Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: = [Fot]=20 Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: = "FOT"=20 <fot@autox.team.net>, = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date:=20 Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall =
when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =
<ehusmann53@yahoo.com>=20
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] =
Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September=20
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for =
Studebaker=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he =
then renamed=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most =

say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three =
great=20
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car=20
show we had.=20
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C92417.64289A00-- --===============1789899024== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1789899024==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 21:21:50 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Robert Johns" , "Steven Preiss" , Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 19:58:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1098949108== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C92400.1B739790" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C92400.1B739790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am forwarding it to my = Newsletter Group Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert Johns=20 To: RACER BUD ; Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:45 PM Subject: Studebaker stories All right guys, you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my = tale of woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club = Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956. After we attended = classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bunches) to do some = racing.=20 After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of = the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of = such things? I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck = in the class with me, one of these monsters. =20 Off we went, racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2, the = Stude (model?) Hawk, and several more interesting pieces of iron. That = Stude would blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass = him on the next set of curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I = finally got far enough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again.=20 =20 Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only = experience of running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M, but S). = They were not many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one, = and it ran very well, with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. Any ways, that is my Studebaker story. =20 Bob Johns ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RACER BUD=20 To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden = Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly = 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a = movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the = cars that added to the racing bug Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Preiss=20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a = passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. = They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their = cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall = ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek = Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an = atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred = to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the = main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by = side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and = projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars = with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. = He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to = school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are = emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the = overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed = inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning = oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads = me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or = intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of = the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true = meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about = STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has = revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for = Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for = Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their = name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the = Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the = company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the = longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler = wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker = the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C92400.1B739790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Bob..for the Terrific = history...I am=20 forwarding it to my Newsletter Group
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Robert = Johns=20
To: RACER BUD ; Steven = Preiss=20 ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 7:45=20 PM
Subject: Studebaker = stories

All right guys, you have done = it.  I am=20 going to have to tell you my tale of woe.  Visualize this!  = I was=20 attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in = 1956.  After we attended classes, they grouped us in classes = (more like=20 bunches) to do some racing. 
 
After Studebaker had merged with = Packard, they=20 built a variation of the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the = day.  What did I know of such things?   I was stuck in = Europe=20 at the time.  Guess what they stuck in the class with me, one of = these=20 monsters.  
 
Off we went, racing our little = hearts=20 out.  Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, and = several more=20 interesting pieces of iron.  That Stude would blow my doors = off=20 going down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of = curves. =20 Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far enough ahead = of him=20 that he didn't catch me again. 
  
Speaking of interesting iron.  = That race was=20 my first and only experience of running against a genuine Austin = Healy S=20 (not M,  but S).  They were not many built, and the Importer = for=20 Switzerland had this one, and it ran very well,  with its cross = flow head=20 and lots of tricks.
 
Any ways,  that is my Studebaker = story.=20  
 
Bob Johns
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RACER=20 BUD
To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 9:12=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my favorite cars for Style = was the (I=20 think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were = added..they were=20 literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby = promoting=20 a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of = the cars=20 that added to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Steven=20 Preiss
To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20
Sent: Wednesday, October = 01, 2008=20 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my neighborhood friends = growing up was=20 a Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt=20 inherited from his dad. They would work into the night in the = carport on=20 one or another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. = The=20 cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, = painted red=20 with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass = packs,=20 always seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of=20 way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as=20 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy = farm, the main pasture of which was = lined with=20 over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the = countryside=20 and carefully placed side by side around the perimeter, = providing an=20 endless supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat = laconic fellow=20 who carpeted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned = from a=20 local flooring company. He also was the first in our group of = carpoolers=20 to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides down narrow = curving=20 residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One striking=20 characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a = little=20 toggle switch always placed inconspicuously under the dash. = Another=20 was their propensity for burning oil, which meant that the = dipstick became=20 a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a=20 result of unintentional poor' design or intentional daily = abuse, cans=20 of STP were always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with = quarts=20 of inexpensive motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, = "Studebaker=20 Tested Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From:=20 EDWARD BARNARD =
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; = dkettler@tcbi.com
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October = 02, 2008=20 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] = Non-LBC group=20 question

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question = about=20 STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this = morning has=20 revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does = stand=20 for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference = to it=20 standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. = The=20 company did tie their name to the product for a short time = until=20 Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard = no=20 longer being a spokeperson for the company is false. = According to=20 the P.R. department, they have the longest commercial = endorse in=20 history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David=20 Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: = [Fot]=20 Non-LBC group question
To: = ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: "FOT"=20 <fot@autox.team.net>, = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date:=20 Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I =
recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =
<ehusmann53@yahoo.com>=20
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] =
Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September=20
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for =
Studebaker=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he =
then renamed=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most =

say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three =
great=20
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car=20
show we had.=20
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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=

_______________________________________________
Support=20 Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

F= ot=20 mailing=20 = list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<= BR>

_______________________________________________
Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C92400.1B739790-- --===============1098949108== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1098949108==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 23:34:09 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 07:10:40 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --===============0204159514== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C9245D.FB8BA040" Content-Language: de Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C9245D.FB8BA040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I really hate to tell you that it wasn=92t a successful weekend for me. =20 At first practice one of the clutches slipped (gearbox or OD), the = engine went hot at full throttle and forced out water, the new starter motor failed. I replaced the head gasket and while torquing up the head nuts nut #5 jumped one thread over. The threads were gone on that part. I drove 200mls to get a new head stud, torqued it up and - BANG =96 the = stud snapped at the lower thread. It was one of the long head studs. Now the thread was burried down in the block. End of race =96 I thought = but after I told my hotelier about the misfit he invented a head stud = extractor while I had breakfast. With that tool it took 10 minutes to get that = thread part out. I recycled my old head stud, used 3 washers to reposition a new nut on a different part of the threat and was able to torque it up. Now the car was ready to race, temperature was fine at full throttle, = the car went uphill 133mph at 6000 rpm in overdrive! The car was smoking a = lot from the scuffed pistons which all 4 are scuffed, not only two as I = thought. The balance felt great and I was starting from behind and overtook about = 15 cars in one lap. Then a Healy driver pointed at my car and shouted that there is = something wrong with my car. I stopped racing and had a look at the engine. A half a liter water was forced out =96 nothing else. Might have been a = trick to stop me because I did overtake him several times. But after the whole field had passed me I retired and went to the pits. =20 I suppose that the water pump is spinning too fast at 6000 and start cavitating which cause the water loss. But the one race lap I did was fun but not what I wanted =96 I wanted = to be more in front. =20 Cheers Chris =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C9245D.FB8BA040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I really hate to tell you that it wasn’t a = successful weekend for me.

 

At first practice one of the clutches slipped (gearbox or = OD), the engine went hot at full throttle and forced out water, the new = starter motor failed.

I replaced the head gasket and while torquing  up = the head nuts nut #5 jumped one thread over. The threads were gone on that = part.

I drove 200mls to get a new head stud, torqued it up and = - BANG – the stud snapped at the lower thread. It was one of the long = head studs.

Now the thread was burried down in the block. End of race – I thought but after I told my hotelier about the misfit he = invented a head stud extractor while I had breakfast. With that tool it took 10 = minutes to get that thread part out.

I recycled my old head stud, used 3 washers to reposition = a new nut on a different part of the threat and was able to torque it = up.

Now the car was ready to race, temperature was fine at = full throttle, the car went uphill 133mph at 6000 rpm in overdrive! The car = was smoking a lot from the scuffed pistons which all 4 are scuffed, not only = two as I thought.

The balance felt great and I was starting from behind and overtook about 15 cars in one lap.

Then a Healy driver pointed at my car and shouted that = there is something wrong with my car. I stopped racing and had a look at the = engine.

A half a liter water was forced out – nothing else. = Might have been a trick to stop me because I did overtake him several = times.

But after the whole field had passed me I retired and = went to the pits.

 

I suppose that the water pump is spinning too fast at = 6000 and start cavitating which cause the water loss.

But the one race lap I did was fun  but not what I = wanted – I wanted to be more in front.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C9245D.FB8BA040-- --===============0204159514== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0204159514==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 07:33:21 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: "MadMarx" Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:09:47 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1980509789== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01C9246E.9E09E1A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C9246E.9E09E1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! That is a good story. I can't imagine how that hotelier could have = made that wonderful tool so fast. From an old spoon, maybe? I wish we = had hoteliers like that here in the states! And that Healy = driver.....hope he apologized for that unsportsmanlike behaviour. = Perhaps it was all for the best. Your engine is probably thanking you = behind your back. Old engines really don't like to admit to weakness. STeve P.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MadMarx=20 To: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I really hate to tell you that it wasn't a successful weekend for = me. =20 =20 Cheers Chris =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C9246E.9E09E1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wow! That is a good story. I can't = imagine how that=20 hotelier could have made that wonderful tool so fast. From an = old=20 spoon, maybe? I wish we had hoteliers like that here in the = states!  And=20 that Healy driver.....hope he apologized for that unsportsmanlike = behaviour.=20 Perhaps it was all for the best. Your engine is probably thanking you = behind=20 your back. Old engines really don't like to admit to = weakness.
STeve P. 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MadMarx
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2008 4:10=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring = Nordschleife 400 km race

I=20 really hate to tell you that it wasn=92t a successful weekend for=20 me.

 

 

Cheers

Chris

 

_______________________________________________
Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

F= ot=20 mailing=20 = list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<= BR>
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C9246E.9E09E1A0-- --===============1980509789== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1980509789==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 07:49:17 2008 From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Fot" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 09:24:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Race Car This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C92470.AF3B0E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out Ebay item 180293143224 Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C92470.AF3B0E70 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IiMNAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANgHCgACAAkAGAAAAAQAEAEB A5AGAJgEAAAlAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB AAAADQAAAFRSNiBSYWNlIENhcgAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABySSSNf2s/E2KoEBEzYeXLUn9+Zgi AAACAR0MAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOk1BQ0RPTkFMRFBAUk9HRVJTLkNPTQAACwABDgAAAABAAAYOANhX IZIkyQECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAA2iW8394pnUqeT8/DyjRoMcKAAAALAB8OAQAAAAIBCRABAAAA uAAAALQAAAAQAQAATFpGdTRrLkQDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM08B9wKkA+MCAGNoCsBz 8GV0MCAHEwKDAFADVFcQyQdtAoB9CoF2CJB30msLgGQ0DGBjAFALAz8LtBUQCrEKhAqECzBzYhMP QAFAc2EXcSBDaBkFkGsgCGAFQEViYcB5IGl0ZW0DMA8CCjQPQDUR8SAxODCAMjkzMTQzMhYc+FBh dQlQFqkPBgKyFkMFFFEAHfALAAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAD4AIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAagAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAAD AEaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAJ2oBAAsAU4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6F AAAAAAAAAwBVgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADAFaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AeIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADkuMAALAHmA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAAAAAAAB4AjIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAI2ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgCOgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAsAlIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA AIKFAAABAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAA2iW8394pnUqeT8/DyjRoMQIB+g8BAAAAEAAAANolvN/eKZ1K nk/Pw8o0aDECAfsPAQAAAFcAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAA AAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABEOlxFbWFpbFxQZXJzb25hbCBGb2xkZXJzLnBzdAAAAwD+DwUA AAADAA00/TcAAAIBfwABAAAANQAAADxKTkVLSk9FUEJGT0dIR09MTEdCSUNFRk1EUEFBLm1hY2Rv bmFsZHBAcm9nZXJzLmNvbT4AAAAAAwAGEJiZrEsDAAcQIAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQ AQAAACEAAABDSEVDS09VVEVCQVlJVEVNMTgwMjkzMTQzMjI0UEFVTAAAAACQyg== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C92470.AF3B0E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C92470.AF3B0E70-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 08:03:28 2008 From: "DAN OTTS" To: "FOT" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 06:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mazda Gearbox This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1117176239== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0092_01C9245A.B2B03A00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01C9245A.B2B03A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FOTs, I have a trashed '65 Spitfire gearbox which needs a complete redo. = Recently, I was told that a Mazda gearbox can be substituted. If it's = doable, the Mazda box would of course be a big improvement. Do any of you know of this being done and if so what was involved? Many thanks. Dan O. ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01C9245A.B2B03A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FOTs,
 
I have a trashed '65 Spitfire gearbox which needs a complete = redo. =20 Recently, I was told that a Mazda gearbox can be substituted.  If = it's=20 doable, the Mazda box would of course be a big improvement.
 
Do any of you know of this being done and if so what was = involved?
 
Many thanks.
 
Dan O.
------=_NextPart_000_0092_01C9245A.B2B03A00-- --===============1117176239== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1117176239==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 08:04:01 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 15:48:51 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --===============1860336831== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C924A6.60EB8A70" Content-Language: de Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C924A6.60EB8A70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The hotelier is a very cool person. He worked in Russia and China where machining parts were hart to get and = so he learned to improvise. Now he is a rich man with a big company and a private plane which with = he is visiting his Europe far spread company parts. As propeller aircrafts sometimes has problem with broken studs he made = this tool for me which has a double effect: =20 Effect 1 =96 extracting the thread part Effect 2 =96 removing a disturbing gasket which prevents the stud from = coming out of the hole =20 To describe the tool: It is an old round file with a swallow shaped end. It is sharpened to = have only two tips on the studs surface. Put it on the broken surface turn the stud out. Will work. To make it = work you can give it a punch with a hammer. =20 Cheers Chris =20 =20 Von: Steven Preiss [mailto:spreiss@verizon.net]=20 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Oktober 2008 00:10 An: MadMarx Cc: fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race =20 Wow! That is a good story. I can't imagine how that hotelier could have = made that wonderful tool so fast. From an old spoon, maybe? I wish we had hoteliers like that here in the states! And that Healy driver.....hope = he apologized for that unsportsmanlike behaviour. Perhaps it was all for = the best. Your engine is probably thanking you behind your back. Old engines really don't like to admit to weakness. STeve P.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MadMarx =20 To: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race =20 I really hate to tell you that it wasn=92t a successful weekend for me. =20 =20 Cheers Chris =20 _____ =20 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C924A6.60EB8A70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The hotelier is a very cool person.

He worked in Russia and China where machining parts were = hart to get and so he learned to improvise.

Now he is a rich man with a big company and a private = plane which with he is visiting his Europe far spread company = parts.

As propeller aircrafts sometimes has problem with broken = studs he made this tool for me which has a double = effect:

 

Effect 1 – extracting the thread = part

Effect 2 – removing a disturbing gasket which = prevents the stud from coming out of the hole

 

To describe the tool:

It is an old round file with a swallow shaped end. It is sharpened to have only two tips on the studs = surface.

Put it on the broken surface turn the stud out. Will = work. To make it work you can give it a punch with a = hammer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

 

Von:<= /b> Steven = Preiss [mailto:spreiss@verizon.net]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Oktober 2008 00:10
An: MadMarx
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km = race

 

Wow! That is a good story. I can't imagine how that hotelier could have made that wonderful tool so fast. From an old spoon, maybe? I = wish we had hoteliers like that here in the states!  And that Healy driver.....hope he apologized for that unsportsmanlike behaviour. = Perhaps it was all for the best. Your engine is probably thanking you behind your = back. Old engines really don't like to admit to = weakness.

STeve P. 

----- Original Message -----

From: MadMarx

Sent:<= /b> Thursday, = October 02, 2008 4:10 PM

Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race

 

I really hate to tell you that it wasn’t a = successful weekend for me.

 

 

Cheers

Chris

 

__________________________________________= _____
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C924A6.60EB8A70-- --===============1860336831== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1860336831==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 08:21:23 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: macdonaldp@rogers.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 09:54:47 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Race Car --===============1598570122== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d62.1cd243b3.36162ca7_boundary" --part1_d62.1cd243b3.36162ca7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting guy, the owner is. > Check out Ebay item 180293143224 > > Paul > --part1_d62.1cd243b3.36162ca7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting g= uy, the owner is.


Check out Ebay item 1802931= 43224

Paul


--part1_d62.1cd243b3.36162ca7_boundary-- --===============1598570122== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1598570122==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 08:21:59 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: MadMarx Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 06:55:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race --===============0907900444== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-112--164579862 --Apple-Mail-112--164579862 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, that sounds like a pretty cool weekend to me. What kind of tool =20 did the hotelier devise--that sounds impossible! The only way I know =20 to get the long studs out when they break at the bottom is to make a =20 pilot bushing to center a drill onto the broken stud, use a long =20 (jobber length) drill bit to drill a hole in the stud, weld an easy-=20 out to a drill rod and weld a T-bar onto the other end, insert the =20 easy out and pray while you turn. All that takes several hours. Where do I find a hotelier like that? On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:10 PM, MadMarx wrote: > I really hate to tell you that it wasn=92t a successful weekend for = me. > > At first practice one of the clutches slipped (gearbox or OD), the =20 > engine went hot at full throttle and forced out water, the new =20 > starter motor failed. > I replaced the head gasket and while torquing up the head nuts nut =20= > #5 jumped one thread over. The threads were gone on that part. > I drove 200mls to get a new head stud, torqued it up and - BANG =96 =20= > the stud snapped at the lower thread. It was one of the long head =20 > studs. > Now the thread was burried down in the block. End of race =96 I =20 > thought but after I told my hotelier about the misfit he invented a =20= > head stud extractor while I had breakfast. With that tool it took 10 =20= > minutes to get that thread part out. > I recycled my old head stud, used 3 washers to reposition a new nut =20= > on a different part of the threat and was able to torque it up. > Now the car was ready to race, temperature was fine at full =20 > throttle, the car went uphill 133mph at 6000 rpm in overdrive! The =20 > car was smoking a lot from the scuffed pistons which all 4 are =20 > scuffed, not only two as I thought. > The balance felt great and I was starting from behind and overtook =20 > about 15 cars in one lap. > Then a Healy driver pointed at my car and shouted that there is =20 > something wrong with my car. I stopped racing and had a look at the =20= > engine. > A half a liter water was forced out =96 nothing else. Might have been =20= > a trick to stop me because I did overtake him several times. > But after the whole field had passed me I retired and went to the =20 > pits. > > I suppose that the water pump is spinning too fast at 6000 and start =20= > cavitating which cause the water loss. > But the one race lap I did was fun but not what I wanted =96 I wanted = =20 > to be more in front. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog --Apple-Mail-112--164579862 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, that sounds like a pretty = cool weekend to me. What kind of tool did the hotelier devise--that = sounds impossible! The only way I know to get the long studs out when = they break at the bottom is to make a pilot bushing to center a drill = onto the broken stud, use a long (jobber length) drill bit to drill a = hole in the stud, weld an easy-out to a drill rod and weld a T-bar onto = the other end, insert the easy out and pray while you turn. All that = takes several hours. 

Where do I find a hotelier = like that? 

On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:10 PM, = MadMarx wrote:

I really = hate to tell you that it wasn=92t a successful weekend for = me.
 
At first = practice one of the clutches slipped (gearbox or OD), the engine went = hot at full throttle and forced out water, the new starter motor = failed.
I replaced the head gasket and while torquing =  up the head nuts nut #5 jumped one thread over. The threads were = gone on that part.
I drove 200mls to get a new head stud, torqued it up = and - BANG =96 the stud snapped at the lower thread. It was one of the = long head studs.
Now the thread was burried down in the block. End of = race =96 I thought but after I told my hotelier about the misfit he = invented a head stud extractor while I had breakfast. With that tool it = took 10 minutes to get that thread part out.
I recycled = my old head stud, used 3 washers to reposition a new nut on a different = part of the threat and was able to torque it = up.
Now the car was ready to race, temperature was fine = at full throttle, the car went uphill 133mph at 6000 rpm in overdrive! = The car was smoking a lot from the scuffed pistons which all 4 are = scuffed, not only two as I thought.
The balance = felt great and I was starting from behind and overtook about 15 cars in = one lap.
Then a Healy driver pointed at my car and shouted = that there is something wrong with my car. I stopped racing and had a = look at the engine.
A half a liter water was forced = out =96 nothing else. Might have been a trick to stop me because I did = overtake him several times.
But after = the whole field had passed me I retired and went to the = pits.
 
I suppose = that the water pump is spinning too fast at 6000 and start cavitating = which cause the water loss.
But the one = race lap I did was fun  but not what I wanted =96 I wanted to be = more in front.
 
Chris
 http://www.fot-racing.com

Fot = mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
= --Apple-Mail-112--164579862-- --===============0907900444== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0907900444==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 08:38:42 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:05:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Henry, can you tell me the sizes of your crank and water pump pulleys? I have the stock water pump with that sharp edged impeller. I really suspect the impeller to cavitating when turning longer at high revs. I hold 6000 for about 30-40 seconds in on go. Chris -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Henry Frye [mailto:henry@henryfrye.com] = Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Oktober 2008 13:55 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Are you running a stock water pump with a stock pulley? If so, I find it hard to believe it was cavitating with only 1/2 liter of water loss. = I run the narrow belt conversion, the water pump pulley is very close to stock, in not stock size, and run to 7000+ with a very aggressive water pump impeller and have no cavitation issues. I have a water pressure gauge plumbed into the block drain port at the rear of the block and it will show over 30 pounds per square inch of pressure at max RPM. I routinely lose about that much water every session, I believe most it goes into the overflow. If I do not check the water until the engine is completely cool most of it returns from the overflow bottle. Sorry your weekend was more fuss than racing. We all have them... > -----Original Message----- > From: MadMarxt > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > = > Now the thread was burried down in the block. End of = > race - I thought but after I told my hotelier about the = > misfit he invented a head stud extractor while I had = > breakfast. With that tool it took 10 minutes to get that = > thread part out. > A half a liter water was forced out - nothing else. > I suppose that the water pump is spinning too fast at = > 6000 and start cavitating which cause the water loss. > = _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 08:39:38 2008 From: Robert Lang To: Paul MacDonald Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Race Car On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Paul MacDonald wrote: > > > Check out Ebay item 180293143224 That car has been listed several times in the past. I'm not sure the owner really wants to sell as the reserve seems to be fairly high for a tub-based GT3 car... for example, there's one for sale in New England region SCCA and the guy wants $8500 and will probably talk. Oh well. > Paul regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 09:39:07 2008 From: "riverside" To: "RACER BUD" , "Steven Preiss" , Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:07:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0257465942== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01C92476.BAF99730" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C92476.BAF99730 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stude V8 oil burning was primarily due to valve guide seals that hardened and disintegrated. The 6's due to=20 slop in the valve guile area and too much oil in the lifter valleys. engine kits for the 6's came with a strip of spring steel to restrict oil to that lifter valley. Stude V8's consistently put way too much oil to the rockers, unlike most of our tractor motors. The overdrives were pretty darn nice. my '62 stude pickup has a small V8 and overdrive and works very well. hope to someday have occasion to tow a TR race car to a race. Studes were noted for strong engines, rust, rattles, and oil leaks - makes them a very large Triumph with a=20 good electrical system! art de armond ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RACER BUD=20 To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden = Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly = 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a = movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the = cars that added to the racing bug Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Preiss=20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a = passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. = They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their = cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall = ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek = Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an = atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred = to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the = main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by = side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and = projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars = with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. = He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to = school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are = emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the = overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed = inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning = oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads = me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or = intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of = the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true = meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about = STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has = revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for = Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for = Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their = name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the = Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the = company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the = longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler = wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker = the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG.=20 Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: = 10/1/2008 9:05 AM ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C92476.BAF99730 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The stude V8 oil burning was primarily = due to valve=20 guide
seals that hardened and = disintegrated.  The=20 6's due to
slop in the valve guile area and too = much oil in=20 the lifter valleys.
engine kits for the 6's came with a = strip of spring=20 steel to restrict
oil to that lifter valley.  Stude = V8's=20 consistently put way too much
oil to the rockers, unlike most of our = tractor=20 motors.
The overdrives were pretty darn = nice.  my '62=20 stude pickup
has a small V8 and overdrive and works = very=20 well.  hope to
someday have occasion to tow a TR race = car  to=20 a race.
 
Studes were noted for strong = engines, =20 rust,  rattles,
and oil leaks  -  makes them = a very large=20 Triumph with a
good electrical system!
 
art de armond
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RACER BUD=20
To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 8:12=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my favorite cars for Style was = the (I=20 think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they = were=20 literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby = promoting a=20 movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the = cars that=20 added to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steven=20 Preiss
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 2:04=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my neighborhood friends = growing up was a=20 Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt = inherited=20 from his dad. They would work into the night in the carport on one = or=20 another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The=20 cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted = red=20 with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, = always=20 seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of way. A buddy = of=20 theirs had what they referred to as 'the Studebaker farm', = which was=20 actually a small dairy farm, = the main=20 pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in=20 from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by side = around the=20 perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and projects. = Martin=20 was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of = carpet=20 "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. He also was the = first in our=20 group of carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides = down=20 narrow curving residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One = striking=20 characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a little = toggle=20 switch always placed inconspicuously under the dash. Another = was their=20 propensity for burning oil, which meant that the dipstick became a = familiar=20 friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a result of=20 unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse, cans of STP = were=20 always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with quarts of = inexpensive=20 motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested=20 Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From:=20 EDWARD BARNARD =
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2008 3:44=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question = about STP.=20 A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning = has=20 revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does = stand for=20 Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it = standing=20 for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company = did tie=20 their name to the product for a short time until Andy G. = took over.=20 But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a=20 spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R.=20 department, they have the longest commercial endorse in = history.=20
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David=20 Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: = [Fot]=20 Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: = "FOT"=20 <fot@autox.team.net>, = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date:=20 Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall =
when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =
<ehusmann53@yahoo.com>=20
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] =
Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September=20
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for =
Studebaker=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he =
then renamed=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most =

say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three =
great=20
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car=20
show we had.=20
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C92476.BAF99730-- --===============0257465942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0257465942==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 10:07:54 2008 From: "riverside" To: "Robert Johns" , "RACER BUD" , Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:14:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1084724178== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C92477.A3846200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C92477.A3846200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 'Toly Arutunoff is a hard corre Stude guy. Raced a '62 GT Hawk at Sebring in the sedan race in '64. Also did some racing with another older Hawk. I was thinking of going vintage racing with a Stude Hawk and contacted 'Toly to see if he knew of the whereabouts of the '62. Very nice conversation. Turns out he loaned the street legal car to a buddy to take on a long trip to visit a girlfriend. Car was stolen and never recoverred. Another GT Hawk was raced in USAC in '64. One of my Stude friends has copies of all the Hollman and Moody papers relating to their pretty successful race programs with Larks in the old sedan racing series circa 1960. art d ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert Johns=20 To: RACER BUD ; Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: [Fot] Studebaker stories All right guys, you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my = tale of woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club = Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956. After we attended = classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bunches) to do some = racing.=20 After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of = the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of = such things? I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck = in the class with me, one of these monsters. =20 Off we went, racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2, the = Stude (model?) Hawk, and several more interesting pieces of iron. That = Stude would blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass = him on the next set of curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I = finally got far enough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again.=20 =20 Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only = experience of running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M, but S). = They were not many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one, = and it ran very well, with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. Any ways, that is my Studebaker story. =20 Bob Johns ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RACER BUD=20 To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden = Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly = 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a = movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the = cars that added to the racing bug Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Preiss=20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a = passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. = They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their = cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall = ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek = Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an = atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred = to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the = main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been = hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by = side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and = projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars = with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. = He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to = school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are = emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the = overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed = inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning = oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads = me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or = intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of = the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true = meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about = STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has = revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for = Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for = Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their = name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the = Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the = company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the = longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler = wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker = the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG.=20 Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: = 10/1/2008 9:05 AM ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C92477.A3846200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
'Toly Arutunoff  is a hard corre = Stude=20 guy.  Raced a '62 GT Hawk
at  Sebring in the sedan race in = '64. =20 Also did some racing with
another older Hawk.   I was = thinking of=20 going vintage racing
with a Stude Hawk  and contacted = 'Toly to see=20 if he knew
of the whereabouts of the = '62.   Very=20 nice conversation.  Turns out
he loaned the street legal car to a = buddy to take=20 on a long trip
to visit a girlfriend.  Car was = stolen and=20 never recoverred.
Another GT Hawk was raced in USAC in=20 '64.   One of my Stude
friends has copies of all the Hollman = and Moody=20 papers relating
to their pretty successful race = programs with Larks=20 in the old
sedan racing series circa = 1960.
 
art d
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Robert = Johns=20
To: RACER BUD ; Steven = Preiss=20 ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 9:45=20 PM
Subject: [Fot] Studebaker = stories

All right guys, you have done = it.  I am=20 going to have to tell you my tale of woe.  Visualize this!  = I was=20 attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in = 1956.  After we attended classes, they grouped us in classes = (more like=20 bunches) to do some racing. 
 
After Studebaker had merged with = Packard, they=20 built a variation of the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the = day.  What did I know of such things?   I was stuck in = Europe=20 at the time.  Guess what they stuck in the class with me, one of = these=20 monsters.  
 
Off we went, racing our little = hearts=20 out.  Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, and = several more=20 interesting pieces of iron.  That Stude would blow my doors = off=20 going down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of = curves. =20 Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far enough ahead = of him=20 that he didn't catch me again. 
  
Speaking of interesting iron.  = That race was=20 my first and only experience of running against a genuine Austin = Healy S=20 (not M,  but S).  They were not many built, and the Importer = for=20 Switzerland had this one, and it ran very well,  with its cross = flow head=20 and lots of tricks.
 
Any ways,  that is my Studebaker = story.=20  
 
Bob Johns
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RACER=20 BUD
To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 9:12=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my favorite cars for Style = was the (I=20 think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were = added..they were=20 literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby = promoting=20 a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of = the cars=20 that added to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Steven=20 Preiss
To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20
Sent: Wednesday, October = 01, 2008=20 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group=20 question

One of my neighborhood friends = growing up was=20 a Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt=20 inherited from his dad. They would work into the night in the = carport on=20 one or another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. = The=20 cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, = painted red=20 with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass = packs,=20 always seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of=20 way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as=20 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy = farm, the main pasture of which was = lined with=20 over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the = countryside=20 and carefully placed side by side around the perimeter, = providing an=20 endless supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat = laconic fellow=20 who carpeted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned = from a=20 local flooring company. He also was the first in our group of = carpoolers=20 to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides down narrow = curving=20 residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One striking=20 characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a = little=20 toggle switch always placed inconspicuously under the dash. = Another=20 was their propensity for burning oil, which meant that the = dipstick became=20 a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a=20 result of unintentional poor' design or intentional daily = abuse, cans=20 of STP were always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with = quarts=20 of inexpensive motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, = "Studebaker=20 Tested Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From:=20 EDWARD BARNARD =
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; = dkettler@tcbi.com
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October = 02, 2008=20 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] = Non-LBC group=20 question

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question = about=20 STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this = morning has=20 revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does = stand=20 for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference = to it=20 standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. = The=20 company did tie their name to the product for a short time = until=20 Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard = no=20 longer being a spokeperson for the company is false. = According to=20 the P.R. department, they have the longest commercial = endorse in=20 history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David=20 Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: = [Fot]=20 Non-LBC group question
To: = ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: "FOT"=20 <fot@autox.team.net>, = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date:=20 Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I =
recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =
<ehusmann53@yahoo.com>=20
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] =
Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September=20
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for =
Studebaker=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he =
then renamed=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most =

say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three =
great=20
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car=20
show we had.=20
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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=

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Support=20 Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<= BR>

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Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.=20
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: = 10/1/2008=20 9:05 AM
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C92477.A3846200-- --===============1084724178== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1084724178==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 11:10:02 2008 From: Shane Ingate To: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:29:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Race Car --===============0627924731== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_beb4ee43-7371-4999-9f04-bbf339556516_" --_beb4ee43-7371-4999-9f04-bbf339556516_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe Alexander wrote: > Interesting guy=2C the owner is. >> Check out Ebay item 180293143224 That's Dave Bonito's car. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC=2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows= Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/= --_beb4ee43-7371-4999-9f04-bbf339556516_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Joe Alexa=
nder wrote:

>=3B Interesting guy=2C the owner is.
>=3B>=3B =
Check out Ebay item 180293143224

That's Dave Bonito's car.

Sh=
ane Ingate in NM


Stay up to date on your PC= =2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows Live. See N= ow = --_beb4ee43-7371-4999-9f04-bbf339556516_-- --===============0627924731== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0627924731==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 11:11:47 2008 From: Ed Diehl To: DAN OTTS Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 09:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Mazda Gearbox --===============0745258076== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1613535594-1222965313=:27672" --0-1613535594-1222965313=:27672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Dan. Some years ago I Iinstalled a Toyota GT gearbox in the GP Spit tha= t I raced at the time and it was a very good=A0 conversion. It was nec. to = make up a plate to go between the Spit bellhousing and the trans and do a l= ittle grinding an the splines, but not too dificult to handle. The trans is= a 5 speed so we needed to lock out 1st gear (easy) to make it SCCA legal..= Makes a very durable setup and only needed synchros one time in 5 years. M= ight be worth your consideration. Cheers, Ed. Ed Diehl --- On Thu, 10/2/08, DAN OTTS wrote: From: DAN OTTS Subject: [Fot] Mazda Gearbox To: "FOT" Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:47 AM FOTs, =A0 I have a trashed '65 Spitfire gearbox which needs a complete redo.=A0 Recen= tly, I was told that a Mazda gearbox can be substituted.=A0 If it's doable,= the Mazda box would of course be a big improvement. =A0 Do any of you know of this being done and if so what was involved? =A0 Many thanks. =A0 Dan O._______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot =0A=0A=0A --0-1613535594-1222965313=:27672 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Dan. Some years ago I Iinstalled a Toyota GT gearbox in the GP Spit that I raced at the time and it was a very good  conversion. It was nec. to make up a plate to go between the Spit bellhousing and the trans and do a little grinding an the splines, but not too dificult to handle. The trans is a 5 speed so we needed to lock out 1st gear (easy) to make it SCCA legal.. Makes a very durable setup and only needed synchros one time in 5 years. Might be worth your consideration. Cheers, Ed.

Ed Diehl

--- On Thu, 10/2/08, DAN OTTS <DOTTS46@q.com> wrote:
From: DAN OTTS <DOTTS46@q.com>
Subject: [Fot] Mazda Gearbox
To: "FOT" <fot@Autox.Team.Net>
Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:47 AM

FOTs,
 
I have a trashed '65 Spitfire gearbox which needs a complete redo.  Recently, I was told that a Mazda gearbox can be substituted.  If it's doable, the Mazda box would of course be a big improvement.
 
Do any of you know of this being done and if so what was involved?
 
Many thanks.
 
Dan O.
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

--0-1613535594-1222965313=:27672-- --===============0745258076== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0745258076==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 12:39:10 2008 From: Gasket Works USA To: thomasb@queensu.ca, triumphs@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:47:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Mini Diesel... --===============0266112514== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_424706_7245970.1222969632567" ------=_Part_424706_7245970.1222969632567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline See below... as many of you know. Gale Banks Engineering has been=20 involved in Diesel tunning for years. He has many projects on the table and in his shop floor. One of the=20 really important projects is the Cummins powered Navy Seal small op=20 boat. The Navy wanted it to be a bit faster... He has several of these=20 6 cyl diesels on the floor with very trick go-fast parts.. Anyways he is on all sorts of expert committees and recently he sent me=20 this email.. Banks seems to like this Mini maybe we'll even get a=20 chance to get it here in the states. Just fyi... Mordy Here=E2=80=99s something interesting; A few weeks ago I represented Bosch a= s=20 their spokesman at the Detroit Gran Prix. One of the cars we=20 demonstrated to the press as the Mini Cooper Euro-Spec Diesel. This one=20 had a 6 speed stick shift and I hot lapped the Belle Isle course in it.=20 What a kick! You would love this car as it goes darn near as good as the gasoline=20 burner but makes, get this, 67 mpg highway. That=E2=80=99s 67% better than = the=20 gasoline version. And, a huge reduction in greenhouse gasses, wow=E2=80=A6j= ust,=20 wow. The attachment above tells the whole story. Now if I can just get BMW and Bosch together to meet our emissions=20 requirements=E2=80=A6I=E2=80=99m working on it and they are so close. This = thing would=20 sell here, and I want one, how about you? As always, Gale Banks ------=_Part_424706_7245970.1222969632567 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
See below... as many of you know. Gale Banks= Engineering has been involved in Diesel tunning for years.

He has many projects on t= he table and in his shop floor.   One of the really important pro= jects is the Cummins powered Navy Seal small op boat.  The Navy wanted= it to be a bit faster... He has several of these 6 cyl diesels on the floo= r with very trick go-fast parts.. 

=
 
Anyways he is on all sorts of expert committees and recently he sent= me this email..   Banks seems to like this Mini  maybe we'l= l even get a chance to get it here in the states.  Just fyi...<= /DIV>


Mordy

Here=E2=80=99s something interesting; A few weeks= ago I represented Bosch as their spokesman at the Detroit Gran Prix. One o= f the cars we demonstrated to the press as the Mini Cooper Euro-Spec Diesel= . This one had a 6 speed stick shift and I hot lapped the Belle Isle course= in it. What a kick!

 

= You would love this car as it goes darn near as good as the gaso= line burner but makes, get this, 67 mpg highway. That=E2=80=99s 67% better = than the gasoline version. And, a huge reduction in greenhouse gasses, wow= =E2=80=A6just, wow. The attachment above tells the whole story.
 

Now if I can just get BM= W and Bosch together to meet our emissions requirements=E2=80=A6I=E2=80=99m= working on it and they are so close. This thing would sell here, and I wan= t one, how about you?

 


 

<= DIV ALIGN=3D"LEFT">As always,

=
 

Gale Banks
 
 ------=_Part_424706_7245970.1222969632567-- --===============0266112514== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0266112514==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 12:52:38 2008 From: jcjcarrera@comcast.net To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:00:22 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Racing Studebakers --===============1422659205== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6128_1222970422_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6128_1222970422_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There is a Studebaker Daytona running in the SOVREN big bore group. Doing quite well. Go to the SOVREN website then photo gallery for some pictures.Owners name is Jerry Taylor, Sisters, Oregon 541-549-6521. John James --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6128_1222970422_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
There is a Studebaker Daytona running in the SOVREN big bore group. Doing quite well. Go to the SOVREN website then photo gallery for some pictures.Owners name is Jerry Taylor, Sisters, Oregon 541-549-6521.
 
John James
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6128_1222970422_0-- --===============1422659205== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1422659205==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 12:53:52 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Ed Diehl Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:04:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Mazda Gearbox --===============1302449394== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-114--149653153 --Apple-Mail-114--149653153 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Toyota gearboxes are always a nice option, robust as hell though a bit heavy. I put an entire 2TG drivetrain (A domestic Japan version of the ubiquitous 2TC engine) into my old TR3 for awhile. Pretty nice, DOHC 2 liter four cylinder motor with mikuni-solex sidedraft carbs, five speed box and a LSD rear end. Rated at 190HP in Japan with limited environmental stuff. Had to narrow the rear end a bit and add lots of carriers and brackets, but it was an easy conversion that only took a couple of days for the entire thing. Whenever I'd open the hood all the triumph faithful would gag and run in little circles, but I never really had to open the hood--it just ran and ran, and was super quick, it would blow the doors off almost any street car in a stoplight drag. Then I decided to make a vintage racer out of it, and all the reliable stuff had to go. On Oct 2, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Ed Diehl wrote: > Hi, Dan. Some years ago I Iinstalled a Toyota GT gearbox in the GP > Spit that I raced at the time and it was a very good conversion. It > was nec. to make up a plate to go between the Spit bellhousing and > the trans and do a little grinding an the splines, but not too > dificult to handle. The trans is a 5 speed so we needed to lock out > 1st gear (easy) to make it SCCA legal.. Makes a very durable setup > and only needed synchros one time in 5 years. Might be worth your > consideration. Cheers, Ed. > > Ed Diehl > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, DAN OTTS wrote: > From: DAN OTTS > Subject: [Fot] Mazda Gearbox > To: "FOT" > Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:47 AM > > FOTs, > > I have a trashed '65 Spitfire gearbox which needs a complete redo. > Recently, I was told that a Mazda gearbox can be substituted. If > it's doable, the Mazda box would of course be a big improvement. > > Do any of you know of this being done and if so what was involved? > > Many thanks. > > Dan O. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog --Apple-Mail-114--149653153 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Toyota gearboxes are always a = nice option, robust as hell though a bit heavy. I put an entire 2TG = drivetrain (A domestic Japan version of the ubiquitous 2TC engine) =  into my old TR3 for awhile. Pretty nice, DOHC 2 liter four = cylinder motor with mikuni-solex sidedraft carbs, five speed box and a = LSD rear end. Rated at 190HP in Japan with limited environmental stuff. =  Had to narrow the rear end a bit and add lots of carriers and = brackets, but it was an easy conversion that only took a couple of days = for the entire thing.  Whenever I'd open the hood all the triumph = faithful would gag and run in little circles, but I never really had to = open the hood--it just ran and ran, and was super quick, it would blow = the doors off almost any street car in a stoplight drag. Then I decided = to make a vintage racer out of it, and all the reliable stuff had to = go. 


On Oct 2, 2008, at 9:35 AM, = Ed Diehl wrote:

Hi, Dan. Some = years ago I Iinstalled a Toyota GT gearbox in the GP Spit that I raced = at the time and it was a very good  conversion. It was nec. to make = up a plate to go between the Spit bellhousing and the trans and do a = little grinding an the splines, but not too dificult to handle. The = trans is a 5 speed so we needed to lock out 1st gear (easy) to make it = SCCA legal.. Makes a very durable setup and only needed synchros one = time in 5 years. Might be worth your consideration. Cheers, = Ed.

Ed Diehl

--- On Thu, 10/2/08, DAN = OTTS <DOTTS46@q.com> wrote:
From: DAN = OTTS <DOTTS46@q.com>
Subject: = [Fot] Mazda Gearbox
To: "FOT" <fot@Autox.Team.Net>
Date: = Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:47 AM

FOTs,
 
I have a = trashed '65 Spitfire gearbox which needs a complete redo.  = Recently, I was told that a Mazda gearbox can be substituted.  If = it's doable, the Mazda box would of course be a big = improvement.
 
Do any of you know of this being = done and if so what was involved?
 
Many = thanks.
 
Dan = O.
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/=
mailman/listinfo/fot

=

_________________________= ______________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

Fo= t mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/= mailman/listinfo/fot


Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
503.936.7660

Editor
Ke Nalu = e-Magazine

=

= --Apple-Mail-114--149653153-- --===============1302449394== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1302449394==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 13:24:12 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "MadMarx" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:21:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Certainly possible, but you'd have to run a huge pulley to reduce the pump RPM significantly. According to my crappy memory the one that comes in the typical thin-belt kit is about 10% bigger than standard. I tried to find an old pulley to measure but I don't seem to have one. I think most people look at reducing the pump RPM as a way to increase horsepower rather than limit cavitation. You should be able to see signs of cavitation on the pump blades. They should erode enough to show marks if you had serious cavitation. It would be nice if someone did a real impeller, with arched blades. Blades that curve away from the direction of rotation are much slower to cavitate. But even if you had gross cavitation in the pump you'd still see some pressure and flow, it just becomes unstable and noisy. I'd look elsewhere, like perhaps a suction hose collapsing, or too much pressure drop across your radiator, before I'd worry too much about pump rotation speed. Even if it is cavitation reducing the system flow, anything that decreases the suction pressure will make it worse. I eliminated a consistent high RPM cooling problem on Peyote with more hard aluminum piping, using flexible hose only for the joints. On Oct 2, 2008, at 7:05 AM, MadMarx wrote: > Henry, > > can you tell me the sizes of your crank and water pump pulleys? > I have the stock water pump with that sharp edged impeller. I really > suspect > the impeller to cavitating when turning longer at high revs. I hold > 6000 for > about 30-40 seconds in on go. > > Chris _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 13:57:20 2008 From: westerneagleracing@att.net To: RACER BUD Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:12:42 +0000 Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories --===============0239708889== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19505_1222974762_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19505_1222974762_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bud, In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly) in 55 = they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyled and= given various Hawk names. It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker lovers as well. Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs -------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" : --= ------------=20 Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am forwarding it to my Newsletter = Group Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert Johns=20 To: RACER BUD ; Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:45 PM Subject: Studebaker stories All right guys, you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my tale o= f woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers= School in Monza, Italy in 1956. After we attended classes, they grouped u= s in classes (more like bunches) to do some racing.=20 After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of the Haw= k with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of such things?= I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck in the class w= ith me, one of these monsters.=20=20 Off we went, racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2, the Stude = (model?) Hawk, and several more interesting pieces of iron. That Stude wou= ld blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass him on the ne= xt set of curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far en= ough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again.=20 =20=20=20 Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only experience o= f running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M, but S). They were not = many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one, and it ran very = well, with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. Any ways, that is my Studebaker story.=20=20 Bob Johns ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RACER BUD=20 To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..= no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly 'attached')..i saw a= NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a movie which I cannot reme= mber(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the cars that added to the racing b= ug Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Preiss=20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a passion (= or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. They would wor= k into the night in the carport on one or another of their cars, droplights= providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 con= vertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 a= nd glass packs, always seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of way. A= buddy of theirs had what they referred to as 'the Studebaker farm', which = was actually a small dairy farm, the main pasture of which was lined with o= ver 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the countryside a= nd carefully placed side by side around the perimeter, providing an endless= supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who car= peted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local floori= ng company. He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his o= wn car to school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets a= re emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the= overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed inconspicuou= sly under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning oil, which mea= nt that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point.= Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse,= cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with quarts = of inexpensive motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, "Studebaker Test= ed Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call to t= heir H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we should = assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleu= m. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in f= act true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short time un= til Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer be= ing a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. departmen= t, they have the longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September=20 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker=20 the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19505_1222974762_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19505_1222974762_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19505_1222974762_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bud,
In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly) i= n 55 they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyle= d and given various Hawk names.
It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker  lovers as well.=
Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs
-------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" <budscar= s@comcast.net>: --------------

Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I a= m forwarding it to my Newsletter Group
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:= 45 PM
Subject: Studebaker stories

All right guys, you have done it.  I = am going to have to tell you my tale of woe.  Visualize this!  I = was attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in = 1956.  After we attended classes, they grouped us in classes (more lik= e bunches) to do some racing. 
 
After Studebaker had merged with Packard, = they built a variation of the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the= day.  What did I know of such things?   I was stuck in Euro= pe at the time.  Guess what they stuck in the class with me, one of th= ese monsters.  
 
Off we went, racing our little hearts= out.  Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, and several = more interesting pieces of iron.  That Stude would blow my doors = off going down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of curves.=   Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far enough ahead o= f him that he didn't catch me again. 
  
Speaking of interesting iron.  That r= ace was my first and only experience of running against a genuine Aust= in Healy S (not M,  but S).  They were not many built, and the Im= porter for Switzerland had this one, and it ran very well,  with its c= ross flow head and lots of tricks.
 
Any ways,  that is my Studebaker stor= y.  
 
Bob Johns
 
 
----- Original Message -----
= From: RACER BUD
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:= 12 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group que= stion

One of my favorite cars for Style was the = (I think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they w= ere literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby prom= oting a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of th= e cars that added to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
= From: Steven Preiss
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:= 04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group que= stion

One of my neighborhood friends growing up = was a Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inher= ited from his dad. They would work into the night in the carport on one or = another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, wh= ich as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white to= p, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic = in an atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what t= hey referred to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small d= airy farm, the main pasture of whic= h was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over= the countryside and carefully placed side by side around the perimeter, pr= oviding an endless supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat= laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" glea= ned from a local flooring company. He also was the first in our group of ca= rpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides down narrow curvin= g residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteris= tic of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch alw= ays placed inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensit= y for burning oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. = Which leads me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional po= or' design or intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the = trunks of the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving= true meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com <= /DIV>
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:4= 4 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group que= stion

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call= to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we sh= ould assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Pet= roleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is= in fact true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short ti= me until Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no long= er being a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. depa= rtment, they have the longest commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler <= I><dkettler@tcbi.com> wrote:
From: David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subj= ect: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: "F= OT" <fot@autox.team.net>, edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date: Tuesday,= September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall when I was a kid collecti=
ng STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann <ehusmann53@yahoo.com>=
=20
wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] No=
n-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September=20
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebak=
er=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then rename=
d=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20
say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=
=20
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car=20
show we had.=20
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>




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Support Team.Net = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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Support Team.Net = http://www.team.net/donate.html

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--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19505_1222974762_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19505_1222974762_0-- --===============0239708889== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0239708889==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 14:25:26 2008 From: John Reed To: , Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:22:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing Studebakers > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0790260529== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3305802172_1660013" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3305802172_1660013 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Here=20in=20the=20Midwest,=20Chris=20Beebe=20races=20a=20very=20trick=20St= ude=20with=20NASCAR=20power. He=20recently=20won=20the=20=B3All=20Studie=20Race=B2=20at=20RA. His=20words. On=2010/2/08=201:00=20PM,=20"jcjcarrera@comcast.net"=20=20wrote: >=20There=20is=20a=20Studebaker=20Daytona=20running=20in=20the=20SOVREN=20= big=20bore=20group.=20Doing >=20quite=20well.=20Go=20to=20the=20SOVREN=20website=20then=20photo=20gall= ery=20for=20some >=20pictures.Owners=20name=20is=20Jerry=20Taylor,=20Sisters,=20Oregon=2054= 1-549-6521. >=20=20 >=20John=20James >=20 >=20 >=20_______________________________________________ >=20Support=20Team.Net=20http://www.team.net/donate.html >=20 >=20http://www.fot-racing.com >=20 >=20Fot=20mailing=20list >=20Fot@autox.team.net >=20http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >=20 Regards, John=20Reed Global=20Staff=20Photographer Creative=20Services =20 Wilson=20Sporting=20Goods=20Co. 8750=20W=20Bryn=20Mawr=20Ave,=20Chicago,=20Illinois=2060631,=20USA Tel.=20+=201.773.714.6895,=20fax=20+1.773.714.4585 John.Reed@wilson.com=20=20www.wilson.com=20=20www.amersports.com =20 This=20e-mail=20may=20contain=20confidential=20and/or=20privileged=20infor= mation.=20If=20you=20are=20not=20the=20intended=20recipient=20(or=20have=20= received=20this=20e-mail=20in=20error)=20please=20notify=20the=20sender=20= immediately=20and=20destroy=20this=20e-mail.=20Any=20unauthorized=20copyin= g,=20disclosure=20or=20distribution=20of=20the=20material=20in=20this=20e-= mail=20is=20strictly=20forbidden. --B_3305802172_1660013 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re:=20[Fot]=20Racing=20Studebakers Here=20in=20the=20Midwest,=20Chris=20Beebe=20races=20a=20very=20tr= ick=20Stude=20with=20NASCAR=20power.
He=20recently=20won=20the=20“All=20Studie=20Race”=20at=20RA. His=20words.


On=2010/2/08=201:00=20PM,=20"jcjcarrera@comcast.net"=20<jcjca= rrera@comcast.net>=20wrote:

<= SPAN=20STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'>There=20is=20a=20Studebaker=20Daytona=20= running=20in=20the=20SOVREN=20big=20bore=20group.=20Doing=20quite=20well.=20= Go=20to=20the=20SOVREN=20website=20then=20photo=20gallery=20for=20some=20p= ictures.Owners=20name=20is=20Jerry=20Taylor,=20Sisters,=20Oregon=20541-549= -6521.
 
John=20James

_______________________________________________
Support=20Team.Net=20http://= www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

Fot=20mailing=20list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team= .net/mailman/listinfo/fot



Regards,
John=20Reed
Global=20Staff=20Photographer
Creative=20Services
 
Wilson=20Sporting=20Goods=20Co.
8750=20W=20Bryn=20Mawr=20Ave,=20Chicago,=20Illinois=2060631,=20USA
Tel.=20+=201.773.714.6895,=20fax=20+1.773.714.4585

John.Reed@wilson.com=20 www.wilson.com=20 www.amersports.com
=  


This=20e-mail=20may=20contain=20confidential=20and/or=20privileged=20infor= mation.=20If=20you=20are=20not=20the=20intended=20recipient=20(or=20have=20= received=20this=20e-mail=20in=20error)=20please=20notify=20the=20sender=20= immediately=20and=20destroy=20this=20e-mail.=20Any=20unauthorized=20copyin= g,=20disclosure=20or=20distribution=20of=20the=20material=20in=20this=20e-= mail=20is=20strictly=20forbidden.
--B_3305802172_1660013-- --===============0790260529== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0790260529==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 14:26:50 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Bill Babcock" , Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:40:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The way that I did it was to install a very small crank pulley and a 3" water pump pulley for Gilmer belts. I think that the crank pulley had to be steel though but only about 1.25" / 1.5" in diameter. (don't remember exactly the diameter other than it was the smallest I could find). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "MadMarx" Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > Certainly possible, but you'd have to run a huge pulley to reduce the > pump RPM significantly. According to my crappy memory the one that > comes in the typical thin-belt kit is about 10% bigger than standard. > I tried to find an old pulley to measure but I don't seem to have one. > I think most people look at reducing the pump RPM as a way to increase > horsepower rather than limit cavitation. > > You should be able to see signs of cavitation on the pump blades. They > should erode enough to show marks if you had serious cavitation. It > would be nice if someone did a real impeller, with arched blades. > Blades that curve away from the direction of rotation are much slower > to cavitate. But even if you had gross cavitation in the pump you'd > still see some pressure and flow, it just becomes unstable and noisy. > I'd look elsewhere, like perhaps a suction hose collapsing, or too > much pressure drop across your radiator, before I'd worry too much > about pump rotation speed. Even if it is cavitation reducing the > system flow, anything that decreases the suction pressure will make it > worse. > > I eliminated a consistent high RPM cooling problem on Peyote with more > hard aluminum piping, using flexible hose only for the joints. > > On Oct 2, 2008, at 7:05 AM, MadMarx wrote: > >> Henry, >> >> can you tell me the sizes of your crank and water pump pulleys? >> I have the stock water pump with that sharp edged impeller. I really >> suspect >> the impeller to cavitating when turning longer at high revs. I hold >> 6000 for >> about 30-40 seconds in on go. >> >> Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 14:58:39 2008 From: "Chuck Arnold" To: jcjcarrera@comcast.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:16:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing Studebakers --===============0492475205== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12061_18333894.1222978608774" ------=_Part_12061_18333894.1222978608774 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline And it has a Chevy engine as that is what Study used by whatever year his car is -- got tis from talking to him on pre-grid last 4th of July. 2008/10/2 > There is a Studebaker Daytona running in the SOVREN big bore group. Doing > quite well. Go to the SOVREN website then photo gallery for some > pictures.Owners name is Jerry Taylor, Sisters, Oregon 541-549-6521. > > John James > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold ------=_Part_12061_18333894.1222978608774 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
And it has a Chevy engine as that is what Study used by whatever year his car is -- got tis from talking to him on pre-grid last 4th of July.

2008/10/2 <jcjcarrera@comcast.net>
There is a Studebaker Daytona running in the SOVREN big bore group. Doing quite well. Go to the SOVREN website then photo gallery for some pictures.Owners name is Jerry Taylor, Sisters, Oregon 541-549-6521.
 
John James

_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html

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--
Chuck Arnold

------=_Part_12061_18333894.1222978608774-- --===============0492475205== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0492475205==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 15:28:48 2008 From: "riverside" To: , Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 15:38:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing Studebakers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0149160748== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924A4.ECF97E20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924A4.ECF97E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Used to be a guy with a supercharged 64 sedan=20 running the Walter Mitty some years ago. There was a strong running coupe at Road=20 America a couple years ago but had mostly non Stude mechanicals. art d=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: jcjcarrera@comcast.net=20 To: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 1:00 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing Studebakers There is a Studebaker Daytona running in the SOVREN big bore group. = Doing quite well. Go to the SOVREN website then photo gallery for some = pictures.Owners name is Jerry Taylor, Sisters, Oregon 541-549-6521. John James -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG.=20 Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: = 10/2/2008 7:46 AM ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924A4.ECF97E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Used to be a guy with a supercharged 64 = sedan=20
running the Walter Mitty some years=20 ago.
There was a strong running coupe at = Road=20
America a couple years ago but had=20 mostly
non Stude mechanicals.
 
art d 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 jcjcarrera@comcast.net =
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2008 1:00=20 PM
Subject: [Fot] Racing = Studebakers

There is a Studebaker Daytona running in the SOVREN big bore = group. Doing=20 quite well. Go to the SOVREN website then photo gallery for some=20 pictures.Owners name is Jerry Taylor, Sisters, Oregon = 541-549-6521.
 
John James

_______________________________________________
Support = Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html<= /A>

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.=20
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: = 10/2/2008=20 7:46 AM
------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924A4.ECF97E20-- --===============0149160748== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0149160748==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 15:59:40 2008 From: DANNY D FORGEY To: triumph fot Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 21:04:58 +0000 Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories --===============1961267588== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_2ef05b29-fa17-4aad-ba31-9963f18d1de0_" --_2ef05b29-fa17-4aad-ba31-9963f18d1de0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Real vintage Studebaker. While doing geologic mapping in the White-Inyo Mo= untains in California=2C we used an abandoned mining cabin=2C circa 1900=2C= as a base camp. So remote that it was unmolested by thieves and still had= a relic Studebaker Wheelbarrow along with other items that were left there= . I understand that Mr. Studebaker got his start making wheelbarrows. =20 We left it as we found it but would be surprised if is still in the same co= ndition today.=20 =20 Dan Forgey From: westerneagleracing@att.netTo: budscars@comcast.netDate: Thu=2C 2 Oct = 2008 19:12:42 +0000CC: fot@autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stor= ies Bud=2C In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly) in 55 = they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyled and= given various Hawk names. It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker lovers as well. Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs -------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" : --= ------------=20 Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am forwarding it to my Newsletter = Group Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert Johns=20 To: RACER BUD =3B Steven Preiss =3B edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday=2C October 01=2C 2008 7:45 PM Subject: Studebaker stories All right guys=2C you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my tale= of woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drive= rs School in Monza=2C Italy in 1956. After we attended classes=2C they gro= uped us in classes (more like bunches) to do some racing.=20 =20 After Studebaker had merged with Packard=2C they built a variation of the H= awk with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of such thing= s? I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck in the class= with me=2C one of these monsters. =20 =20 Off we went=2C racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2=2C the St= ude (model?) Hawk=2C and several more interesting pieces of iron. That Stu= de would blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass him on = the next set of curves. Back and forth we went=2C and I think I finally go= t far enough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again.=20 =20 Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only experience o= f running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M=2C but S). They were no= t many built=2C and the Importer for Switzerland had this one=2C and it ran= very well=2C with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. =20 Any ways=2C that is my Studebaker story. =20 =20 Bob Johns =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RACER BUD=20 To: Steven Preiss =3B edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday=2C October 01=2C 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..= no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly 'attached')..i saw a= NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a movie which I cannot reme= mber(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the cars that added to the racing b= ug Racer Bud ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Preiss=20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Wednesday=2C October 01=2C 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut=2C a passion= (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. They would w= ork into the night in the carport on one or another of their cars=2C dropli= ghts providing a weary glow. The cars=2C which as I recall ranged from a 19= 50 convertible=2C painted red with a white top=2C to a sleek Silver Hawk wi= th a 289 and glass packs=2C always seemed exotic in an atypical American so= rt of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as 'the Studebaker f= arm'=2C which was actually a small dairy farm=2C the main pasture of which = was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over t= he countryside and carefully placed side by side around the perimeter=2C pr= oviding an endless supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat laco= nic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned f= rom a local flooring company. He also was the first in our group of carpool= ers to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides down narrow curving res= idential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic o= f the cars was the overdrives=2C activated by a little toggle switch always= placed inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for bu= rning oil=2C which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which = leads me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or in= tentional daily abuse=2C cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of the = cars=2C along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil=2C giving true meaning t= o the term=2C "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: EDWARD BARNARD=20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com =3B dkettler@tcbi.com=20 Cc: FOT=20 Sent: Thursday=2C October 02=2C 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call to t= heir H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we should = assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleu= m. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in f= act true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short time un= til Andy G. took over. But=2C the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer = being a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. departm= ent=2C they have the longest commercial endorse in history.=20 Thanks again to the list! -Ed---- On Tue=2C 9/30/08=2C David Kettler wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group que= stionTo: ehusmann53@yahoo.comCc: "FOT" =2C edwardbarnar= d@prodigy.netDate: Tuesday=2C September 30=2C 2008=2C 9:52 PMI recall when = I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday=2C 30 September 2008=2C Ernest Husmann =20 wrote: >Ed: >=20 >From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20 Tue=2C 9/30/08=2C EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday=2C September=20 30=2C 2008=2C 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis'=2C Novi'=2C etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20 company named Chemical Compounds=2C which had an oil additive product=20 they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20 Andy Granatelli=2C then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker= =20 the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed=20 STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20 STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=20 say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum=2C while a few are saying=20 it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20 the "true" side of the story?=20 >BTW=2C later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great=20 guys=2C Johnny Rutherford=2C Lloyd Ruby=2C and Jim McElreath=2C at a car=20 show we had.=20 >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________Support Team.Net http://www.= team.net/donate.htmlhttp://www.fot-racing.comFot mailing listFot@autox.team= .nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________Support Team.Net http://www.= team.net/donate.htmlhttp://www.fot-racing.comFot mailing listFot@autox.team= .nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________Support Team.Net http://www.= team.net/donate.htmlhttp://www.fot-racing.comFot mailing listFot@autox.team= .nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot= --_2ef05b29-fa17-4aad-ba31-9963f18d1de0_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Real vintage Studebaker. =3B While doing geologic mapping in the White-= Inyo =3BMountains in California=2C we used an abandoned mining cabin=2C= circa 1900=2C as a base camp. =3B So remote that it was unmolested by = thieves =3Band still had =3Ba relic Studebaker Wheelbarrow along wi= th other items that were left there. =3B I understand that Mr. Studebak= er got his start making wheelbarrows.
 =3B
We left it as we found it but would be surprised if is still in the same co= ndition today. =3B
 =3B
Dan Forgey



From: westerneagleracing@att.net
To: budscars@comcast.net
Date: Thu= =2C 2 Oct 2008 19:12:42 +0000
CC: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fo= t] Studebaker stories


Bud=2C
In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly) i= n 55 they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyle= d and given various Hawk names.
It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker =3B lovers as wel= l.
Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs
-------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" <=3Bb= udscars@comcast.net>=3B: --------------

Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I a= m forwarding it to my Newsletter Group
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday=2C October 01=2C 200= 8 7:45 PM
Subject: Studebaker stories

All right guys=2C you have done it. = =3B I am going to have to tell you my tale of woe. =3B Visualize this!&= nbsp=3B I was attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza= =2C Italy in 1956. =3B After we attended classes=2C they grouped us in = classes (more like bunches) to do some racing. =3B
 =3B
After Studebaker had merged with Packard= =2C they built a variation of the Hawk with the =3Bhuge Packard engine = of the day. =3B What did I know of such things? =3B  =3BI was s= tuck in Europe at the time. =3B Guess what they stuck in the class with= me=2C one of these monsters. =3B =3B
 =3B
Off we went=2C racing =3Bour little he= arts out. =3B =3BMe in my little TR2=2C the Stude (model?) Hawk=2C = and several more interesting pieces of iron. =3B That =3BStude woul= d blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass him on the nex= t set of curves. =3B Back and forth we went=2C and I think I finally go= t far enough ahead of =3Bhim that he didn't catch me again. =3B
 =3B =3B
Speaking of interesting iron. =3B That= race was my =3Bfirst and only experience of running against a genuine = Austin Healy S (not M=2C =3B but S). =3B They were not many built= =2C and the Importer for Switzerland had this one=2C and it ran very well= =2C =3B with its cross flow head and lots of tricks.
 =3B
Any ways=2C  =3Bthat is my Studebaker = story.  =3B
 =3B
Bob Johns
 =3B
 =3B
----- Original Message -----
From: RACER BUD
Sent: Wednesday=2C October 01=2C 200= 8 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group que= stion

One of my favorite cars for Style was the = (I think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they w= ere literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby prom= oting a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of th= e cars that added to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday=2C October 01=2C 200= 8 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group que= stion

One of my neighborhood friends growing up = was a Studebaker nut=2C a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inh= erited from his dad. They would work into the night in the carport on one o= r another of their cars=2C droplights providing a weary glow. The cars=2C&n= bsp=3Bwhich as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible=2C painted red with = a white top=2C to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs=2C always = seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of way. =3BA =3Bbuddy of= theirs had what they referred to as 'the =3BStudebaker farm'=2C which = was actually a small dairy farm=2C = the main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been= hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by side = around the perimeter=2C providing =3Ban endless supply of parts and pro= jects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an a= rray of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. He also was = the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some w= ild rides down narrow curving residential streets are emblazoned in my memo= ry. One striking characteristic of the cars was the overdrives=2C activated= by a little toggle switch always =3Bplaced inconspicuously under the d= ash. Another was their propensity for burning oil=2C which meant that the d= ipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether = =3Ba result =3Bof unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse= =2C cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of the cars=2C =3Balong = with quarts of inexpensive motor oil=2C giving true meaning to the term=2C = "Studebaker Tested Products"!
STeve P. =3B----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday=2C October 02=2C 2008= 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group que= stion

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call= to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we sh= ould assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Pet= roleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is= in fact true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short ti= me until Andy G. took over. But=2C the Wiki reference to King Richard no lo= nger being a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. de= partment=2C they have the longest commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
 =3B-Ed-

--- On Tue=2C 9/30/08=2C David Kettler <=3Bdkettler@tcbi.com>=3B wrote:
From: David Kettler <=3Bdkettler@tcbi.com&g= t=3B
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.c= om
Cc: "FOT" <=3Bfot@autox.team.net>=3B=2C edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=
Date: Tuesday=2C September 30=2C 2008=2C 9:52 PM

I recall w=
hen I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday=2C 30 September 2008=2C Ernest Husmann <=3Behusmann53@yahoo.co=
m>=3B=20
wrote:

>=3BEd:
>=3B =3B
>=3BFrom STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On=20
Tue=2C 9/30/08=2C EDWARD BARNARD <=3Bedwardbarnard@prodigy.net>=3B wrot=
e:
>=3BFrom: EDWARD BARNARD <=3Bedwardbarnard@prodigy.net>=3BSubject: [F=
ot] Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <=3Bfot@autox.team.net>=3BDate: Tuesday=2C
September=20
30=2C 2008=2C 11:06 AM
>=3B
>=3BLister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis'=2C
Novi'=2C etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known=20
company named Chemical Compounds=2C which had an oil additive product=20
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave=20
Andy Granatelli=2C then head engineer and chief test =3Bdriver for Stud=
ebaker=20
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then =3Brena=
med=20
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=20
STP? I am getting mixed answers from =3BThe Racing History Group. Most=
=20
say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum=2C while a few are saying=20
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know=20
the "true" side of the story?=20
>=3BBTW=2C later I will relate =3Bthis past Saturday spent with three=
 great=20
guys=2C Johnny Rutherford=2C Lloyd Ruby=2C =3B and Jim McElreath=2C at =
a car=20
show we had.=20
>=3BThanks - Ed - =3B_______________________________________________
>=3BSupport Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>=3B
>=3Bhttp://www.fot-racing.com
>=3B
>=3BFot mailing list
>=3BFot@autox.team.net
>=3Bhttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>=3B
>=3B_______________________________________________
>=3BSupport Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>=3B
>=3Bhttp://www.fot-racing.com
>=3B
>=3BFot mailing list
>=3BFot@autox.team.net
>=3Bhttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>=3B




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= --_2ef05b29-fa17-4aad-ba31-9963f18d1de0_-- --===============1961267588== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1961267588==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 16:01:01 2008 From: TomD4760@aol.com To: John.Reed@wilson.com, jcjcarrera@comcast.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:21:13 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing Studebakers --===============1188729819== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d4a.3e0a01b5.36169549_boundary" --part1_d4a.3e0a01b5.36169549_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doesn't he (Chris Beebe) get mentioned often in Peter Egan's columns in Road and Track? In a message dated 10/2/08 2:26:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, John.Reed@wilson.com writes: >

**************
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
(http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) --part1_d4a.3e0a01b5.36169549_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doesn't he (Chris Beebe) get mentioned oft= en
in Peter Egan's columns in Road and Track?





In a message dated 10/2/08 2:26:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, John.Reed@= wilson.com writes:


Here in the Midwest, Chr= is Beebe races a very trick Stude with NASCAR power.


**************
Looking for simple solutions to your re= al-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and i= nformation, tips and calculators.
(http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID= =3Demlcntuswall00000001) --part1_d4a.3e0a01b5.36169549_boundary-- --===============1188729819== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1188729819==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 16:01:36 2008 From: Steven Belfer To: FOT Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 14:23:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear Wheel cylinder removal - spring clips Hi gang, I need to remove a leaking rear wheel cylinder that's held in place by metal spring clips. I've never removed these things before and It's probably easy, if you've done it before. After jamming a screwdriver into my hand, I'll ask you all this question. Can you please describe the method of removing these pesky things? ~Steve _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 16:32:04 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Gasket Works USA" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:02:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Mini Diesel... --===============1228489099== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_509_25086011.1222984926672" ------=_Part_509_25086011.1222984926672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline For that I might give up my Cooper-S 2008/10/2 Gasket Works USA > See below... as many of you know. Gale Banks Engineering has been involve= d > in Diesel tunning for years. > > He has many projects on the table and in his shop floor. One of the > really important projects is the Cummins powered Navy Seal small op boat. > The Navy wanted it to be a bit faster... He has several of these 6 cyl > diesels on the floor with very trick go-fast parts.. > > > Anyways he is on all sorts of expert committees and recently he sent me > this email.. Banks seems to like this Mini maybe we'll even get a chan= ce > to get it here in the states. Just fyi... > > > > Mordy > > Here's something interesting; A few weeks ago I represented Bosch as thei= r > spokesman at the Detroit Gran Prix. One of the cars we demonstrated to th= e > press as the Mini Cooper Euro-Spec Diesel. This one had a 6 speed stick > shift and I hot lapped the Belle Isle course in it. What a kick! > > > > You would love this car as it goes darn near as good as the gasoline burn= er > but makes, get this, 67 mpg highway. That's 67% better than the gasoline > version. And, a huge reduction in greenhouse gasses, wow=85just, wow. The > attachment above tells the whole story. > > > > Now if I can just get BMW and Bosch together to meet our emissions > requirements=85I'm working on it and they are so close. This thing would = sell > here, and I want one, how about you? > > > > > > > As always, > > > > Gale Banks > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------=_Part_509_25086011.1222984926672 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

For that I might give up my Cooper-S


2008/10/2 Gasket Works USA <gasket.works@verizon.net>
See below... as many= of you know. Gale Banks Engineering has been involved in Diesel tunning fo= r years.

He has many p= rojects on the table and in his shop floor.   One of the really i= mportant projects is the Cummins powered Navy Seal small op boat.  The= Navy wanted it to be a bit faster... He has several of these 6 cyl diesels= on the floor with very trick go-fast parts.. 

 =
Anyways he is on all sorts of expert committees and recently he sent me = this email..   Banks seems to like this Mini  maybe we'l= l even get a chance to get it here in the states.  Just fyi...<= /div>


Mordy

Here's someth= ing interesting; A few weeks ago I represented Bosch as their spokesman at = the Detroit Gran Prix. One of the cars we demonstrated to the press as the = Mini Cooper Euro-Spec Diesel. This one had a 6 speed stick shift and I hot = lapped the Belle Isle course in it. What a kick!

 =

You would= love this car as it goes darn near as good as the gasoline burner but make= s, get this, 67 mpg highway. That's 67% better than the gasoline version. A= nd, a huge reduction in greenhouse gasses, wow=85just, wow. The attachment = above tells the whole story.

 =

Now if I = can just get BMW and Bosch together to meet our emissions requirements=85I'= m working on it and they are so close. This thing would sell here, and I wa= nt one, how about you?

 =


 
=
As always,

 =

Gale Bank= s

 =


__= _____________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-raci= ng.com

Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
ht= tp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot



------=_Part_509_25086011.1222984926672-- --===============1228489099== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1228489099==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 17:00:42 2008 From: koblinger@verizon.net To: westerneagleracing@att.net Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:04:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories --===============0875660304== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_792125_28237860.1222985050932" ------=_Part_792125_28237860.1222985050932 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Interestingly enough, Studebaker almost became the Triumph=20 importer/distributor for the US. One of the prototype TR2s was even sent=20 over for evaluation but they couldn't come to an agreement. Soon after=20 Dorothy Deen and Arthur Anderson met Sir John Black and the rest is=20 history. For a time, Studebaker was the importer/distributor in the US for=20 Mercedes-Benz. Kurt O. On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:12 PM, westerneagleracing@att.net wrote: Bud, In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly) in=20 55 they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly=20 restyled and given various Hawk names. It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker lovers as well. Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs -------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" :=20 -------------- Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am forwarding it to my=20 Newsletter Group Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Johns =20 To: RACER BUD ; Steven Preiss=20 ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net=20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net =20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:45 PM Subject: Studebaker stories All right guys, you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my=20 tale of woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club=20 Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956. After we attended=20 classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bunches) to do some=20 racing. After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of the=20 Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of such=20 things? I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck in=20 the class with me, one of these monsters. Off we went, racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2, the=20 Stude (model?) Hawk, and several more interesting pieces of iron. That=20 Stude would blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass=20 him on the next set of curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I=20 finally got far enough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again. Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only=20 experience of running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M, but S).=20 They were not many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one,=20 and it ran very well, with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. Any ways, that is my Studebaker story. Bob Johns ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD =20 To: Steven Preiss ;=20 edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net =20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden=20 Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly=20 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a=20 movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the=20 cars that added to the racing bug Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Preiss =20 To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net =20 Cc: fot@autox.team.net =20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a=20 passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad.=20 They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their=20 cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall=20 ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek=20 Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an=20 atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred=20 to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm , the=20 main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been=20 hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by=20 side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and=20 projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars=20 with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company.=20 He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to=20 school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are=20 emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the=20 overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed=20 inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning=20 oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads=20 me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or=20 intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of=20 the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true=20 meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD BARNARD =20 To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ;=20 dkettler@tcbi.com Cc: FOT Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call=20 to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we=20 should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically=20 Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker=20 Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their name to the=20 product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki=20 reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the company=20 is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the longest=20 commercial endorse in history. Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann wrote: > Ed: > > From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: > From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > > Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? > BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. > Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 ___________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ___________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ___________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html=20 =C2=A0 http://www.fot-racing.com =C2=A0=20 Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net =C2=A0=20 http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot=20 =C2=A0=20 ------=_Part_792125_28237860.1222985050932 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Interestingly enough, Studebaker almost beca= me the Triumph importer/distributor for the US. One of the prototype TR2s w= as even sent over for evaluation but they couldn't come to an agreement. So= on after Dorothy Deen and Arthur Anderson met Sir John Black and the rest i= s history. 

For a time, Studebaker was the importer/distributor in the US for M= ercedes-Benz.

Kurt O.

On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:12 PM, westerneagleracing@att.net wrote:=


Bud,
In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly)= in 55 they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly resty= led and given various Hawk names.
It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker=   lovers as well.
Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs
-------------- Original message fr= om "RACER BUD" <budscars@comcast.net>: --------------

Thanks Bob..fo= r the Terrific history...I am forwarding it to my Newsletter Group <= /DIV>
Racer Bud
----- Original Message ----- <= /FONT>
Sent: Wednesday, Octo= ber 01, 2008 7:45 PM
Subject: = Studebaker stories

All right guys, you have done it.  I am going t= o have to tell you my tale of woe.  Visualize this!  I was attend= ing the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956. = ; After we attended classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bunches)= to do some racing. 
 = ;
<= FONT FACE=3D"Arial" SIZE=3D"2" COLOR=3D"#000000" LETTERSPACING=3D"0" KERNIN= G=3D"0">After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of= the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day.  What did I know of= such things?   I was stuck in Europe at the time.  Guess wh= at they stuck in the class with me, one of these monsters.  
 
Off we went, racing ou= r little hearts out.  Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, an= d several more interesting pieces of iron.  That Stude would blow my d= oors off going down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of cu= rves.  Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far enough ah= ead of him that he didn't catch me again. 
  
Speak= ing of interesting iron.  That race was my first and only experience o= f running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M,  but S).  They= were not many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one, and it= ran very well,  with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. <= /DIV>
  =
Any ways,  that is my= Studebaker story.  
 
Bob Johns
  =
 
----- Original Message -----
To: Steven Preiss;= ed= wardbarnard@prodigy.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01,= 2008 9:12 PM
Subject: Re:= [Fot] Non-LBC group question

One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I = think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were= literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoti= ng a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the c= ars that added to the racing bug
= Racer Bud
----- Original Messag= e -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC gr= oup question =

One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, = a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. The= y would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their cars,= droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall ranged from= a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk w= ith a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an atypical American sor= t of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as 'the Studebaker fa= rm', which was actually a small dairy farm , the main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers t= hat had been hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed s= ide by side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and = projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with a= n array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company.= He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to s= chool. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are emblazon= ed in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the overdrives= , activated by a little toggle switch always placed inconspicuously under t= he dash. Another was their propensity for burning oil, which meant that the= dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a = result of unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse, cans of ST= P were always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with quarts of inexpens= ive motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Pro= ducts"!
STeve P. --= --- Original Message -----
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM <= A HREF=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
Lister's:= Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call to their H.Q.= public relations office this morning has revealed what we should assume is= the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wi= ki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true.= The company did tie their name to the product for a short time until Andy = G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spo= keperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. department, they h= ave the longest commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.= com> wrote:
From: David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>, e= dwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date: = Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall when I was a kid collecting STP sticke= rs at gas stations.
I always und= erstood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.
Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, E= rnest Husmann <ehusmann53@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Ed:
>
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientif= ically Treated Petroleum--- On
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardb= arnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] Non-
<= FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" SIZE=3D"3" COLOR=3D"#000000" LETTERSPACING=3D"0" KERN= ING=3D"0">LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>D= ate: Tuesday,
September
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
&g= t;Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
<= FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" SIZE=3D"3" COLOR=3D"#000000" LETTERSPACING=3D"0" KERN= ING=3D"0">Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.=
In 1963 Studebaker purchased fr= om three gentlemen a little known
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product
they were selling from the trunks o= f their cars. Studebaker gave
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker <= /FONT>
the position of CEO of the newly= acquired company which he then renamed
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of=
STP? I am getting mixed answ= ers from The Racing History Group. Most
say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are say= ing
it stands for Studebaker Te= st Products. Do any of the FOTers know
the "true" side of the story?
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with= three great
guys, Johnny Rut= herford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car
show we had.
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net http://www.te= am.net/donate.html
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>= Fot@autox.team.net
>http://au= tox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>_____________________= __________________________
>S= upport Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>http://= www.fot-racing.com
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot@autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
<= DIV ALIGN=3D"LEFT">>




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 ------=_Part_792125_28237860.1222985050932-- --===============0875660304== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0875660304==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 17:02:36 2008 From: "Jim" To: "'triumph fot'" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:19:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0325892179== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924B2.FAF3F380" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924B2.FAF3F380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Was it wheel barrows before the covered wagons? Jim _____ From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:05 PM To: triumph fot Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories Real vintage Studebaker. While doing geologic mapping in the White-Inyo Mountains in California, we used an abandoned mining cabin, circa 1900, as a base camp. So remote that it was unmolested by thieves and still had a relic Studebaker Wheelbarrow along with other items that were left there. I understand that Mr. Studebaker got his start making wheelbarrows. We left it as we found it but would be surprised if is still in the same condition today. Dan Forgey _____ From: westerneagleracing@att.net To: budscars@comcast.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 19:12:42 +0000 CC: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories Bud, In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly) in 55 they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyled and given various Hawk names. It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker lovers as well. Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs -------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" : -------------- Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am forwarding it to my Newsletter Group Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Johns To: RACER BUD ; Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Cc: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:45 PM Subject: Studebaker stories All right guys, you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my tale of woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956. After we attended classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bunches) to do some racing. After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of such things? I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck in the class with me, one of these monsters. Off we went, racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, and several more interesting pieces of iron. That Stude would blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far enough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again. Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only experience of running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M, but S). They were not many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one, and it ran very well, with its cross flow head and lots of tricks. Any ways, that is my Studebaker story. Bob Johns ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD To: Steven Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Cc: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the cars that added to the racing bug Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Preiss To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Cc: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. They would work into the night in the carport on one or another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy farm, the main pasture of which was lined with over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the countryside and carefully placed side by side around the perimeter, providing an endless supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. He also was the first in our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides down narrow curving residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One striking characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a little toggle switch always placed inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their propensity for burning oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"! STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com Cc: FOT Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short time until Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no longer being a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R. department, they have the longest commercial endorse in history. Thanks again to the list! -Ed- --- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler wrote: From: David Kettler Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Cc: "FOT" , edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations. I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products. Dave Kettler At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann wrote: >Ed: > >From STP's web page: STP = Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non- LBC group questionTo: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:06 AM > >Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? >BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. >Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =================================================================== EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/ Powered by Debian: http://www.debian.org =================================================================== _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txnwEC0qGH9oQp10pJoG9jwdbC3DTHOgvk5BNvY283bUe86/ ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924B2.FAF3F380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Was it wheel barrows before the covered wagons? =
 
 
Jim

From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net = [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of DANNY D = FORGEY
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:05 PM
To: = triumph = fot
Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories

=
Real vintage Studebaker.  While doing geologic mapping i= n the = White-Inyo Mountains in California, we used an abandoned mining cab= in, = circa 1900, as a base camp.  So remote that it was unmolested by = thieves and still had a relic Studebaker Wheelbarrow along wit= h other = items that were left there.  I understand that Mr. Studebaker got h= is start = making wheelbarrows.
 
We left it as we found it but would be= = surprised if is still in the same condition today. 
 
Da= n = Forgey



From: westerneagleracing@att.net
To: budscars@comcast.net
Date= : Thu, 2 = Oct 2008 19:12:42 +0000
CC: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] = = Studebaker stories


Bud,
In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly= ) in 55 = they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyled = and = given various Hawk names.
It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker  lovers as = well.
Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs

______________________= ______________________________________
Click to = find information on your credit score and your credit report.=
------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C924B2.FAF3F380-- --===============0325892179== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0325892179==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 17:35:50 2008 From: Steven Belfer To: "Joe Curry" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 15:41:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear Wheel cylinder removal - spring clips It's a TR3B but sounds just like your description. ~Steve On Oct 2, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > Steve, > You didn't say what model you are talking about. I am assuming, > though that > whatever it is, is similar to the Spitfire. > > There are two "C" spring clips that are inserted in opposite > directions. > They lock together with bumps and depressions in the ends of the > clips and > are dislodged by inserting a screwdriver against one side of the > back of the > cylinder and prying on the inside of the upright part of the "C". > > Once one is removed, the other is easily removed from the opposite > direction. > > Joe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:24 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Rear Wheel cylinder removal - spring clips > > Hi gang, I need to remove a leaking rear wheel cylinder that's held in > place by metal spring clips. I've never removed these things before > and It's probably easy, if you've done it before. After jamming a > screwdriver into my hand, I'll ask you all this question. > Can you please describe the method of removing these pesky things? > > ~Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 17:36:32 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: colordog.1@earthlink.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:56:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear Wheel cylinder removal - spring clips The bottom one (next to the backing plate) is convex side facing the plate. It has little folds on the end that lock into notches on the ends of the center plate. The small outer clip has the ends folded up also. To get it apart either pry off the small clip, and most likely destroy it, or pry up the ends of the center plate & lever it and/or the lower plate out. When refitting, fit the lower & outer plate (same direction), fit the handbrake lever, and then jam in the center plate between the two, in the opposite direction, until the lugs lock. Make sure it slides, fit the boot, brake pipe, etc. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: Steven Belfer To: FOT Sent: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 5:23 pm Subject: [Fot] Rear Wheel cylinder removal - spring clips Hi gang, I need to remove a leaking rear wheel cylinder that's held in place by metal spring clips. I've never removed these things before and It's probably easy, if you've done it before. After jamming a screwdriver into my hand, I'll ask you all this question. Can you please describe the method of removing these pesky things? ~Steve _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 18:04:27 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: , , , Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:30:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing Studebakers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0019066151== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_028E_01C924AC.2BB0C630" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_028E_01C924AC.2BB0C630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just to put an end to the Studebaker stories. I have owned all in one = decade a '39, a '48, a '50 (best of the bunch) and 3 Starlight coupes, 2 = 6 cyl and one V-8.=20 They were cheap on the used car lots, sturdy, not beaten to death by = teenage owners and usually had a clean interior and well feed engine.=20 From: TomD4760@aol.com=20 To: John.Reed@wilson.com ; jcjcarrera@comcast.net ; fot@autox.team.net = Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing Studebakers Doesn't he (Chris Beebe) get mentioned often=20 in Peter Egan's columns in Road and Track?=20 In a message dated 10/2/08 2:26:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, = John.Reed@wilson.com writes:=20 Here in the Midwest, Chris Beebe races a very trick Stude with = NASCAR power. ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? = Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and = calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=3Demlcntuswall00000001)=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------=_NextPart_000_028E_01C924AC.2BB0C630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just to put an end to the Studebaker stories.  I have owned = all in=20 one decade a '39, a '48, a '50 (best of the bunch) and 3 Starlight = coupes,=20 2  6 cyl and one V-8.
 
They were cheap on the used car lots, sturdy, not beaten to = death=20 by teenage owners and usually had a clean interior and well feed engine. =
 
 
To: John.Reed@wilson.com ; jcjcarrera@comcast.net ; fot@autox.team.net
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2008 2:21=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing=20 Studebakers

Doesn't he (Chris Beebe) get = mentioned often=20
in Peter Egan's columns in Road and Track? =





In a=20 message dated 10/2/08 2:26:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, John.Reed@wilson.com writes:=20


Here in the Midwest, Chris Beebe races a very trick = Stude with=20 NASCAR power.



**************
Looking for = simple=20 solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop = for the=20 latest news and information, tips and calculators.
(http://www= .walletpop.com/?NCID=3Demlcntuswall00000001)=20

_______________________________________________
Support = Team.Net=20 = http://www.team.net/donate.html

http://www.fot-racing.com

F= ot=20 mailing=20 = list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<= BR>
 ------=_NextPart_000_028E_01C924AC.2BB0C630-- --===============0019066151== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0019066151==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 21:36:51 2008 From: Tony Drews To: fot@autox.team.net,vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:51:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Non vintage racer, Fiat Spider on craigs list --===============0059960106== Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Ran across this looking for a cheap 5 speed Honda / Toyota for my daughter.

"Fun little car to drive. Runs great! Only about 700 miles on a rebuilt motor. Minimal rust. Needs new bumpers. I have new quarter panels for both front and back sides of car. New soft top on car. Also have hard top that just needs refurnished. About 4 boxes of spare parts will be given to buyer. I was awarded this car in a divorce and just looking to get rid of it. For additional information or a quicker response call 309-343-5873. Ask for Stephanie. "
sale-863542369@craigslist.org

Galesburg, IL, $2000

http://quadcities.craigslist.org/cto/863542369.html

Looks decent in the little pics on Craigslist.

NFI

Tony Drews
--===============0059960106== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0059960106==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 2 23:37:09 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: 'Friends of Triumph' Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:37:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] History > Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath Wow, there are some names from a while back. During the 60s I spent a few weekends at Indy. My father was friends with this one guy who lived maybe three blocks from the Brickyard. We'd drive down from South Bend [ The home of Studebaker ] on some May weekends and spend a day or two at the track during qualifying. Never a race, but still fun times for a budding auto enthusiast like me. This was back when the front engined roadsters, maybe Kurtis, Watson, Offy? were starting to get surpassed by the likes of this little cigar shaped, rear engined oddity, painted GREEN of all things, from England. Jimmy Clark, the name sounds a bit familiar. Anyone ever hear of him? And there were the STP Granetelli turbines, boy did they sound different! Novi? And speaking of Studebaker, a few years back my wife and I went with her family on a vacation trip to the Bear Lake area in northern Utah, southern Idaho area, which included some time in a town in Idaho called Montpelier. I'm sure those names mean nothing to most of you. Montpelier, though, at one time was a major stop on the Oregon Trail. There's a nice Park Service museum there, and one of the things they offer is this neat little tour that takes you through life during those bygone times. At one point the guide is standing next to a nicely restored wagon from that era, and he asks 'Who made such wagons back then?' Some of the folks on the tour with us suggested things like Ford, Chevy, Toyota. I piped up with 'Studebaker' - he looked a bit surprised. I was wrong, though, as the Studebaker brothers didn't start producing wagons until about a dozen years after the time period in question. He did say later that my guess was probably one of the most historically accurate he'd heard all season. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 7 12:03:39 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: 'Friends of Triumph' Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:05:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] List problems I think I fixed the problem with the FOT list. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 7 12:17:31 2008 From: GSFuqua1@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:17:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Hallett FoT Update Just thought I'd let everyone know how the weekend went at Hallett. FoT had a very small turn out but Bobby Whitehead and I waved the flag as well as we could. Both cars ran flawlessly, at least as far as I could tell, and we finished all races including the Friday test & tune sessions. Weather was awesome. Nice cool mornings with a little heat by afternoon but nothing dramatic. Bobby can give you his impressions but I was personally very pleased with how things went. My TR 4 # 69 (Old # 96) is not particularly geared well for one of the tough corners at Hallett (Turn # 9 aka "The Bitch" but it does very well on many of the other corners. My times dropped consistently each time out and I even managed to get them to be in a pretty consistent range when not running into traffic or making a dumb shifting mistake. Ha ha Started out the weekend around 1:43 and finished the weekend in the 1:38 range. Had some great battles with a particularly fast 62 MGA. Finally dusted him good in the points race by getting by him at the start. He never saw me again. YEA!!! Still learning a ton of things but slowly getting better. I even included a small spin and a 2 wheel off on Friday. No harm no foul and it gave me a boost in confidence that I can experience these things without pinching a hole in my suit and the car seat. Ha ha Last race of the year for me will be Oct. 31, Nov. 1 & 2 down at Texas World Speedway in College Station. Good Lord willing I will then remove the X and get my license. Cheers to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 8 02:40:21 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 02:30:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Hallett FoT Update GSFuqua1@aol.com wrote: > > Last race of the year for me will be Oct. 31, Nov. 1 & 2 down at Texas World Speedway in College Station. Good Lord willing I will then remove the X and get my license. > > Cool! Good luck losing the X. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 8 20:01:10 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 19:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Fw: TR3-4 crank --- On Mon, 10/6/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: TR3-4 crank To: "FOT" Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 1:17 PM Lister's: Hate to bomb the list with this, but I'd rather offer stuff to the list then throw it out on the market. I have a TR3-4 crank sitting here, machined and ready to use. This is from that group that I bought from the machine shop over the summer. It is ground to rods .020 under, mains .030 under. I know that is smaller than most people want for a race motor, but it is still good for a street car. If anyone is interested please email me directly Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 8 20:48:28 2008 From: jcjcarrera@comcast.net To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 02:48:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Outraged Lehman Bros. employees stage a protest Not exactly TR related, but I thought you would enjoy my friend's sense of humor given these uncertain financial times. John James TR4 #116 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: RELNGSON@aol.com To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:42:40 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Fwd: Outraged Lehman Bros. employees stage a protest ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) Return-path: From: Bruce1485@aol.com Full-name: Bruce1485 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:20:45 EDT Subject: Fwd: Outraged Lehman Bros. employees stage a protest To: 3-pete@sbcglobal.net, 356Bird@comcast.net, bacinos@comcast.net, BetterPizza@aol.com, Boxsterpro@aol.com, cawriter@verizon.net, cbeepa1@hotmail.com, Chill1929@att.net, dakoehn@earthlink.net, dingfud@mac.com, dmitch19@verizon.net, gaijin@bellsouth.net, GUARAGLIA@prodigy.net, HY356@aol.com, jeaniesr@sbcglobal.net, Jerry@jerrywoods.com, lefties2@email.msn.com, Lindabacin@comcast.net, ljones41@comcast.net, mail@elevenparts.com, millerhistoric@charter.net, mraffauf@us.ibm.com, parced@gmail.com, penman@starstream.net, raffles1@comcast.net, RELNGSON@aol.com, RENNSPORT@msn.com, rich@jerrywoods.com, Rick.Riley@grandxray.com, rojospeedster@yahoo.com, ron@jerrywoods.com, sjrv@sbcglobal.net, smedley@softcom.net, stchilds@mac.com, stephani@mac.com, Susan514@Starstream.net, Theorobins@aol.com, tmasles@vmware.com, twusz@rockettbrand.com, warrengardnerjr@comcast.net, johnhoddy@yahoo.com, rockykuonen@hotmail.com, ejfarrar@onlinenw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was multipart/alternative ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) Return-Path: Received: from rly-df05.mx.aol.com (rly-df05.mail.aol.com [172.19.156.18]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v121_r3.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-54f48ebf896110; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:02:40 -0400 Received: from smtp107.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp107.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.176]) by rly-df05.mx.aol.com (v121_r3.13) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDF054-54f48ebf896110; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:02:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 83543 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2008 00:02:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.101?) (joel@66.66.175.10 with plain) by smtp107.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2008 00:02:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 0HBzSKcVM1na7ZSS77IneWxcNzAYia.NqS6Ezt_OopU5xHBB98CQkf63.pJ0Yaq_HYDg3gJEqE11kXAhtZsTww0DbY8ogWfQmnlQrjOeozIBlssmHGRTHWqzX1NM9GQvczlUVMvK9ET2SaBHBAVqUfQBMGIRN3.GlrjrVHBMnxbx.DViOkHZpnL9yicoMA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:02:21 -0400 To: Bruce Anderson From: Joel Reiser Subject: Fwd: Outraged Lehman Bros. employees stage a protest Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-AOL-IP: 206.190.52.176 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: domain : smtp107.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com ; SPF_helo = n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: domain : reiser-technik.com ; SPF_822_from = n X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/Related by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/html Begin forwarded message: Date: January 31, 2008 7:48:38 PM MST Subject: FW: Outraged Lehman Bros. employees stage a protest Outraged Lehman Bros. employees stage a protest by blockading the entrance to the bank's headquarters ... [cid:p06240805c511a8efd70a@[192.168.1.101].1.0] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001 777.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="C74943C8] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 8 23:16:32 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:14:02 +0200 Subject: [Fot] WG: Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I'm not sure if this had got through. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: MadMarx [mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 6. Oktober 2008 00:18 An: 'fot@autox.team.net' Betreff: WG: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Video from practice .....no race video available: http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/tc-2008-74-ring1.wmv http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/tc-2008-74-ring2.wmv http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/tc-2008-74-ring3.wmv _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 10:13:47 2008 From: "Mike Munson" To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:01:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] test This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0367086989== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01C92B1B.6EB13B70" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C92B1B.6EB13B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Test ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C92B1B.6EB13B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Test

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C92B1B.6EB13B70-- --===============0367086989== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0367086989==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 10:15:29 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:11:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] FoT List Mail ??? --===============0691420636== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bc9.3b506324.36212cf5_boundary" --part1_bc9.3b506324.36212cf5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FoT I just got a call from one of our Legends. He was wondering if FOT email was getting out. I have been traveling since The Glen and have not paid attention. Any one out there? Joe A


**************
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) --part1_bc9.3b506324.36212cf5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FoT

I just got a call from one of our Legends.=20

He was wondering if FOT email was getting out.

I have been traveling since The Glen and have not paid attention.

Any one out there?

Joe A


**************
New MapQuest Local shows what'= s happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. T= ry it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=3Demlcntnew00000002) --part1_bc9.3b506324.36212cf5_boundary-- --===============0691420636== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============0691420636==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 10:15:30 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 04:53:25 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1092949373== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C92A94.20EAB970" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C92A94.20EAB970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My webpage is full so I transfered the videos to google: http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=3D3720269564435099599&hl=3Dde http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=3D-4989970539072501558&hl=3Dde I drove very carefully because of the oil I spilled on the rear wheels. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C92A94.20EAB970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My webpage is full so I transfered = the videos to=20 google:
 
 
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=3D3720269564435099599&= ;hl=3Dde
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=3D-4989970539072501558&a= mp;hl=3Dde
 
I drove very carefully because of the = oil I=20 spilled on the rear wheels.
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C92A94.20EAB970-- --===============1092949373== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --===============1092949373==-- From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 10:27:35 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: 'Friends of Triumph' Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:30:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Back on the air Okay, all the Team.Net mailman lists seem to be back on the air. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 10:34:27 2008 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: , Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:34:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] FoT List Mail ??? I think the members of the FOT list are taking a break from the flood of emails that followed WG. Bob Kramer rkramer3@austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: [Fot] FoT List Mail ??? FoT I just got a call from one of our Legends. He was wondering if FOT email was getting out. I have been traveling since The Glen and have not paid attention. Any one out there? Joe A ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 10:54:24 2008 From: "Richard Taylor" To: , Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:54:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] FoT List Mail ??? You got a 196, Boss. Richard L. Taylor, Jr., FAIA TAYLOR ARCHITECTURE 112 Krog St. Suite 196 Atlanta, Georgia, 30307 tel: (404) 223-1313 fax: (404) 223-1312 mobile: (404) 660-4920 www.taylor-architecture.com _____ From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 6:11 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] FoT List Mail ??? FoT I just got a call from one of our Legends. He was wondering if FOT email was getting out. I have been traveling since The Glen and have not paid attention. Any one out there? Joe A ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 11:07:31 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: tarch@bellsouth.net ("Richard Taylor"), fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:07:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?FoT_List_Mail_=A0=3F=3F=3F?= back on...kind of like a shot of oxygen >You got a 196, Boss. > > > >Richard L. Taylor, Jr., FAIA > >TAYLOR ARCHITECTURE > >t.+++Suite+196&csz=Atlanta,+Georgia&country=us> 112 Krog St. Suite >196 >Atlanta, Georgia, 30307 > >tel: >04)+223-1313&Email=tarch@bellsouth.net> (404) 223-1313 > >fax: (404) 223-1312 > >mobile: >04)+660-4920&Email=tarch@bellsouth.net> (404) 660-4920 > > www.taylor-architecture.com > > _____ > >From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On >Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com >Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 6:11 PM >To: fot@autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] FoT List Mail ??? > > > >FoT > >I just got a call from one of our Legends. > >He was wondering if FOT email was getting out. > >I have been traveling since The Glen and have not paid attention. > >Any one out there? > >Joe A > > >************** >New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, >Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out >(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 12:10:33 2008 From: "Scott Janzen" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:11:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I'd like to nominate Paul King, a fellow Triumph GT6 racer I met at the recent VRG race at the newly opened New Jersey Lightning circuit. Paul has a nicely prepped car that he built over a six year period, and is having fun in the vintage racing scene. He's described his Triumph history, racing experience and car below. Do I have a second?? Thanks, Scott Janzen '68 GT6 From: Paul King To: 'Scott Janzen' I've been a Triumph enthusiast for many years, having owned a 1974 TR6 (French Blue) for 18 years. It is now, unfortunately in need of a restoration! After attending many British car shows over the years, I got bored. About that time a friend of mine (Lotus 7) got involved in vintage racing (VSCCA) and brought me along to several events. In September 1999, another friend (who owns a restoration shop) and I, after attending the Lime Rock Vintage Festival, cooked up the idea that we could build a vintage race car! He was somewhat of a Triumph guy also, having owned 3 GT6's at one time! And he just happened to have 2 chassis and a GT6 MkIII body lying around the shop! This is a good reason why you shouldn't make these kinds of decisions while drinking beer, as it took almost 6 years of on again - off again work to get the car ready for the track! We prepared the car with a mildly tuned engine, with reliability in mind, in order to focus on sorting out the car on the track. My friend and I performed pretty much all the work in his shop, with the exception of the engine rebuild. Its first race was at Loudon, NH in 2005 at the VRG Vintage Celebration. I think I may have run about a half dozen laps all weekend! Since then I have been to every Loudon event and the event at NJMP. The car is officially listed as a 1972 GT6 MkIII. It has a VRG logbook and I am a member of VRG. I personally prepared for vintage racing by attending the Skip Barber 3 Day school and Car Control Clinic, as well as the excellent driving schools run by the VRG. The sorting out process continues on the car. The next major projects will be suspension and engine/transmission upgrades. (You always need more power!). I won't be able to go to Watkins Glen either. However, at this time I'm planning on going to the Turkey Bowl at Summit Point on Thanksgiving weekend. Maybe I'll see you there. Regards, Paul King _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 12:41:01 2008 From: Scott Cypher To: Scott Janzen Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:37:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I second. Thanks -Scott Cypher spitfireracer@xsmail.com SCCA #57 HP Spitfire 1500 #362573 Reading, PA http://gallery.mac.com/srcypher 1971 Spit MkIV/1500 RaceCar 1971 TR6 TBD 1976 TR7 Street 1968 GT6 Vintage "I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. Its the excitement only a free man can feel. A free man at the start of a long journey, whose conclusion is uncertain" On Oct 11, 2008, at 2:11 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: I'd like to nominate Paul King, a fellow Triumph GT6 racer I met at the recent VRG race at the newly opened New Jersey Lightning circuit. Paul has a nicely prepped car that he built over a six year period, and is having fun in the vintage racing scene. He's described his Triumph history, racing experience and car below. Do I have a second?? Thanks, Scott Janzen '68 GT6 From: Paul King To: 'Scott Janzen' I've been a Triumph enthusiast for many years, having owned a 1974 TR6 (French Blue) for 18 years. It is now, unfortunately in need of a restoration! After attending many British car shows over the years, I got bored. About that time a friend of mine (Lotus 7) got involved in vintage racing (VSCCA) and brought me along to several events. In September 1999, another friend (who owns a restoration shop) and I, after attending the Lime Rock Vintage Festival, cooked up the idea that we could build a vintage race car! He was somewhat of a Triumph guy also, having owned 3 GT6's at one time! And he just happened to have 2 chassis and a GT6 MkIII body lying around the shop! This is a good reason why you shouldn't make these kinds of decisions while drinking beer, as it took almost 6 years of on again - off again work to get the car ready for the track! We prepared the car with a mildly tuned engine, with reliability in mind, in order to focus on sorting out the car on the track. My friend and I performed pretty much all the work in his shop, with the exception of the engine rebuild. Its first race was at Loudon, NH in 2005 at the VRG Vintage Celebration. I think I may have run about a half dozen laps all weekend! Since then I have been to every Loudon event and the event at NJMP. The car is officially listed as a 1972 GT6 MkIII. It has a VRG logbook and I am a member of VRG. I personally prepared for vintage racing by attending the Skip Barber 3 Day school and Car Control Clinic, as well as the excellent driving schools run by the VRG. The sorting out process continues on the car. The next major projects will be suspension and engine/transmission upgrades. (You always need more power!). I won't be able to go to Watkins Glen either. However, at this time I'm planning on going to the Turkey Bowl at Summit Point on Thanksgiving weekend. Maybe I'll see you there. Regards, Paul King Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 17:50:33 2008 From: GSFuqua1@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:50:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group This winter I will need to renew the clutch. Go figure, someone mentioned something about having a heavy foot or something. Ha ha Anyway, I was wondering if there is any advantage to running a Tilton set up versus the usual selections. So I am posing the question to vast intelligence in the FoT community. What say you and what models are preferred? I am running a 63 TR 4 with O/D. Thanks & Cheers, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 18:07:49 2008 From: "Chuck Arnold" To: GSFuqua1@aol.com, Friends Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:06:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group I just bought a quartermaster 7.5" dual disk will use with Fidanza aluminum flywheel. Bill Babcock recommended quartermaster over Tilton. Cost was $480 or so from Hoerr racing products [hrpworld.com]. Part number for the one with 1/18 by 10 disks is QM298000. Figures, I am going to put in close ratio gears. They have a 1x23 spline drive so will have to get new disks. On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM, wrote: > This winter I will need to renew the clutch. Go figure, someone mentioned > something about having a heavy foot or something. Ha ha Anyway, I was > wondering if there is any advantage to running a Tilton set up versus the > usual > selections. So I am posing the question to vast intelligence in the FoT > community. > What say you and what models are preferred? I am running a 63 TR 4 with > O/D. > Thanks & Cheers, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 18:37:49 2008 From: William G Rosenbach To: s.janzen@comcast.net Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:35:19 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I'll second another GT-6 racer. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Quick, easy, hassle free car rentals. Click to reserve your car. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nMUohkksEe7muB2mFD1eNnndVwBnDzdTuhMwn7Hw7Okf9l4/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 20:37:12 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 100th anniversary of first motorway! Yesterday was the 100th anniversary of the Long Island Motorway...the first purpose built road for the automobile. Happy Birthway to tollways! -Ed- http://www.nytimes. com/2008/ 10/12/automobile s/12LIMP. html? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 20:41:15 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Try again http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/automobiles/12LIMP.html? Try the above link - Ed - _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 11 20:49:06 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Another anniversary Oh, for those that follow open wheel racing, yesterday 10-10-08 was also the 60th anniversary of Ted Horns death. The best start/finish record of any starter of the Indy 500. My dad always told me he learned to magnaflux everything in the front end of his midget when Ted died in an accident caused by his front spindle braking. Here's to Ted! -Ed- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 08:35:54 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:35:41 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race These 4 videos are so embarrassing. I'm looking like a back marker. But I really was afraid the rear end is coming out too far on that spilled oil and I am maybe not able to catch the car like it happened on the first lap. On the straights the clutch was slipping when the engine went over 4500 rpm and the power is close to the climax. And then this heat issue with the leaking head gasket. It really was a weekend to forget....not to mention the fatal accident of a Mustang driver at Wehrseifen. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dennis DeLap [mailto:yellow-green@sbcglobal.net] Gesendet: Sonntag, 12. Oktober 2008 02:30 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race BEAUTIFUL! Thanks so much for taking the time to post. I must come to Germany sometime soon. Dennis --- On Thu, 10/9/08, MadMarx wrote: > From: MadMarx > Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > To: fot@autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:53 PM > My webpage is full so I transfered the videos to google: > > > http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=3720269564435099599&hl=de > http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-4989970539072501558&hl=de > > I drove very carefully because of the oil I spilled on the > rear wheels. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 08:42:09 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:42:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Rear crank seal on a TR4 This year my car became well known for smoking on straights. Oil is dripping on the exhaust and steaming in the following cars. Not bad for me but unfair for the fellow drivers. So I want to work on that. I use the standard rear sealing ring and it worked fine except of this season. I really have no idea why this crank is making trouble. For the Nordschleife race I used a different engine with the same result - if smoked again. How do you install the rear sealing ring? Do you use the special tool for installing? I don't like to install a rubber sealing ring - at the moment. Strange thing is, that the flywheel and clutch is dry. The clutch housing isn't washed but not dry. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 11:29:17 2008 From: DANNY D FORGEY To: , Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:27:11 +0000 Subject: Re: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group Hammer hands (me) was saved from probable expensive repairs by a stock clutch disk in his TR4A racer. I found 2nd gear instead if 4th while trying to upshift at about 6 grand in 3rd. Instead of motor or transmission damage, the stock clutch disk broke into two pieces, one attached to the input shaft and the other in an outter ring with the fricion material. Ended weekend first thing on Saturday morning. Considered getting an upgraded disk, but decided I liked the failsafe abilities of the stock disk when hammer handing shifts, so went with a stocker from Moss. I don't know whose stock pressure plate was installed by PO that is still in use, but I have has no issues with running stock set-up with a Fidanza flywheel. Maybe up here in Colorado, with the alttude limiting power, the stock set-up is adequate compared to low-landers higher HP motors. However I did run in Hastings Nebraska at 1800 feet and the clutch did OK before the ignition systems shot craps. Dan > From: GSFuqua1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:50:24 -0400> To: fot@autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group> > This winter I will need to renew the clutch. Go figure, someone mentioned > something about having a heavy foot or something. Ha ha Anyway, I was > wondering if there is any advantage to running a Tilton set up versus the usual > selections. So I am posing the question to vast intelligence in the FoT community. > What say you and what models are preferred? I am running a 63 TR 4 with O/D. > Thanks & Cheers,> > Gary Fuqua> Classic Sports Cars> Branson, MO> **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 11:39:48 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: FOT List Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:39:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group I've tried a lot of different clutches, including modified stockers, Tilton, etc., and I like the Quartermaster clutches best. 7.25 two plate. > > This > winter I will need to renew the clutch. Go figure, someone mentioned > > something about having a heavy foot or something. Ha ha Anyway, I > was > > wondering if there is any advantage to running a Tilton set up > versus the > usual > selections. So I am posing the question to vast intelligence > in the > FoT community. > What say you and what models are preferred? I am > running a 63 > TR 4 with O/D. > Thanks & Cheers,> > Gary Fuqua> Classic Sports > Cars> Branson, > MO> **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)> > _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net > http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot > mailing > list> Fot@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 12:42:28 2008 From: "Henry Frye" To: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:42:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group While the concept of a failsafe is one I don't relate to, the one place I do not want ANY failure, "planned" or not, is in the clutch assembly. Anything going wrong in the bellhousing is really risky business. > -----Original Message----- > From: DANNY D FORGEY > Subject: Re: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group > > I found 2nd gear > instead if 4th while trying to upshift at about 6 grand in > 3rd. Instead of motor or transmission damage, the stock > clutch disk broke into two pieces, > > Considered getting an upgraded disk, but decided I liked the > failsafe abilities of the stock disk when hammer handing > shifts, so went with a stocker from Moss. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 12:53:42 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:52:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group I run a stock clutch plate and a SAAB 900 Turbo pressure plate which fits without modification. After running my clutch for years, this year it started slipping at the beginning of the events but started to work perfect after the first standing start. Don't know why this is. Next year I will fit a new clutch plate. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von DANNY D FORGEY Gesendet: Sonntag, 12. Oktober 2008 19:27 An: gsfuqua1@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group Hammer hands (me) was saved from probable expensive repairs by a stock clutch disk in his TR4A racer. I found 2nd gear instead if 4th while trying to upshift at about 6 grand in 3rd. Instead of motor or transmission damage, the stock clutch disk broke into two pieces, one attached to the input shaft and the other in an outter ring with the fricion material. Ended weekend first thing on Saturday morning. Considered getting an upgraded disk, but decided I liked the failsafe abilities of the stock disk when hammer handing shifts, so went with a stocker from Moss. I don't know whose stock pressure plate was installed by PO that is still in use, but I have has no issues with running stock set-up with a Fidanza flywheel. Maybe up here in Colorado, with the alttude limiting power, the stock set-up is adequate compared to low-landers higher HP motors. However I did run in Hastings Nebraska at 1800 feet and the clutch did OK before the ignition systems shot craps. Dan > From: GSFuqua1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:50:24 -0400> To: fot@autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] Clutch Question for the Group> > This winter I will need to renew the clutch. Go figure, someone mentioned > something about having a heavy foot or something. Ha ha Anyway, I was > wondering if there is any advantage to running a Tilton set up versus the usual > selections. So I am posing the question to vast intelligence in the FoT community. > What say you and what models are preferred? I am running a 63 TR 4 with O/D. > Thanks & Cheers,> > Gary Fuqua> Classic Sports Cars> Branson, MO> **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 12:56:45 2008 From: Scott Cypher To: Friends Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:54:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tilton vs Stock Clutch (Was Clutch question) Bill, a related question on stock vs. Tilton; I"m fitting an aluminum flywheel, 7 1/4 tilton single plate. From my collection; I have a couple collars for release bearings, that are different lengths, in what look like PO modifications to deal with the different standoff distance off rear of the block given modified flywheel/pressure plates. With a tilton setup, how do you control the throw such that you don't over-extend the diaphram spring? Do the hydraulics take up the slack, do you have to use a different collar to control the throw distance, or do you have put a hard stop for the lever arm? After installing the tilton, and a longer collar, I have about 3/8" play between fully retracted and when the release bearing first touch the tilton diaphragm spring. What else should I look for? I unfortunately didn't measure the lightened stock steel flywheel & stock clutch setup standoff distance prior to this change. Thanks -Scott Cypher spitfireracer@xsmail.com SCCA #57 HP Spitfire 1500 #362573 Reading, PA http://gallery.mac.com/srcypher 1971 Spit MkIV/1500 RaceCar 1971 TR6 TBD 1976 TR7 Street 1968 GT6 Vintage "I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. Its the excitement only a free man can feel. A free man at the start of a long journey, whose conclusion is uncertain" On Oct 12, 2008, at 1:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: I've tried a lot of different clutches, including modified stockers, Tilton, etc., and I like the Quartermaster clutches best. 7.25 two plate. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 14:40:54 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: kas kastner Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Memories and losses Kas: You were really lucky to have seen a great like Ted Horn race. I can only listen to my Dad's stories of the drivers we now consider legends. A lot of them hung out in Gasoline Alley in Passiac N.J. along with the wanna be greats like Dad. 1948 was the year that Dad attempted to qualify for the 500 but didn't make it. It was two days after they lost Ted Horn (60 years ago Friday) that they also lost midget great Johnny Ritter (60 years ago today)when he was fatally injured while changing a tire on his midget at the Medford Bowl in Massachusetts. Gasoline Alley was the place to be...Russo, Eddie "Dutch" Schaffer, Chuck Arnold (not from this list, but I think of him whenever "our" Chuck posts something), and another guy by the driving name of Ted Tappett were always around. Dad hung out with Ted Tappett until he started driving "sporty cars", as Dad refers to them. Everyone on this list has heard of Ted Tappett by his real name...Phil Walters. I told the list I would mention a show we had here in Texas a couple of weeks ago. It was your average weekend car show put on by the City of Irving, except that the organizer happens to own a '49 Hilligas midget. He invited all of us midget owners to show their old Champ cars at the show. We had 12 cars; one 3/4 midget, seven midgets, two "big cars" (sprints), and two Indy cars. One of the midgets was brought up from San Antonio by a guy named Bill Jones, who ran the Zink Special team at Indy from '53 through '66. The newest car there was a '61 Indy car owned by a member of CVAR. The car was driven by the likes of Eddie Sachs, Troy Ruttman, and Mario Andretti. Ray Arnold, son of Indy driver Chuck Arnold lives here in Weatherford, TX. and brought his midget. We were visited by three Indy greats that live within an hour of here...Johnny Rutherford (River Oaks), Jim McElreath (Arlington), and Lloyd Ruby (Witchita Falls). We were lucky to get Ruby there because he went into surgury the next week and will be out of commission for awhile. All told great stories of the past, Ruby's taking longer with his slow deep southern drawl. Rutherford related the story, which he has told to writers before, about how he drove through the fiery crash that took the lifes of Eddie Sachs and Dave McDonald during the '64 500. Truly made the hair rise on the back of your neck. -Ed- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 15:29:45 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: kas kastner Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Memories Kas: Really great photos of that situation. I do believe Salt passed away a month later though. I don't know if he ever regained conciousness. Below is a link to the story from J.R. about Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald. Just reading it makes you believe in luck. Did you know Dave M. while he was running sporty cars? If I remember correctly he was a Vette, Cobra guy and ran for the Shelby team. I think at LeMans too? http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/0306_johnny_rutherford/index.ht ml -Ed- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 15:32:49 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: kas kastner Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] correct link http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/0306_johnny_rutherford/index.html _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 15:49:51 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: Kas Kastner Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] correct link >From what I understand of the weeks prior to the race numerous drivers tried the Mickey Thompson car and turned it down saying it was not sorted out and was ill handling. You have to consider Dave to be a real driver for not wanting to miss his chance to start in a 500 even in a car that was not completely sorted out. Back then the driver tried to make up for the problems of the car. Nothing against today's drivers, but I think the drivers back then were more "rounded" and skilled. It was not uncommon for a man to drive Champ cars, Stock cars, dirt, pavement, and mutiple Formula's. Look at A.J., J.R., Mario, P.J. and others. JMO -Ed- --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Kas Kastner wrote: From: Kas Kastner Subject: Re: correct link To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 4:35 PM Yes I knew Dave. I was running the driver school at Riverside in those day (besides working) ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: kas kastner Cc: FOT Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:32 PM Subject: correct link http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/0306_johnny_rutherford/index.ht ml _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 17:21:20 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: Kas Kastner Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Memories Kas: You are correct, Salt Walther did live through the crash; his car is the number 77 in your last picture with the drivers legs hanging out. He did try the 500 again numerous times, but never did well. I was thinking of the "other" crash in the '73 500...Swede Savage's. He crashed after the race was restarted, hitting the wall in I believe turn four and the entrance to the pits There was little left of the car, and as I thought with Walther, I think he remained in a coma for a month. I think they call that the "Black 500" -Ed- --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Kas Kastner wrote: From: Kas Kastner Subject: Re: Memories To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 5:07 PM I think you are wrong about Walther. ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: kas kastner Cc: FOT Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: Memories Kas: Really great photos of that situation. I do believe Salt passed away a month later though. I don't know if he ever regained conciousness. Below is a link to the story from J.R. about Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald. Just reading it makes you believe in luck. Did you know Dave M. while he was running sporty cars? If I remember correctly he was a Vette, Cobra guy and ran for the Shelby team. I think at LeMans too? http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/0306_johnny_rutherford/index.ht ml -Ed- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 18:32:09 2008 From: "WILLIAM TOBIN" To: , "kas kastner" Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:29:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Memories Hi all, there's a good book by Michael Argetsinger entitled "Walt Hansgen." It follows Walt's career from the early '50's to his demise at LeMans in '66. It has a good chapter about the '64 Indy race in which walt drove. It's a good read and very informative about the early years of US road racing. I heard Michael has a new book coming out about Mark Donohue, one of the best ever. Take care, Bill----- Original Message ----- From: "EDWARD BARNARD" To: "kas kastner" Cc: "FOT" Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: [Fot] Memories > Kas: Really great photos of that situation. I do believe Salt passed away a > month later though. I don't know if he ever regained conciousness. > Below is a link to the story from J.R. about Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald. > Just reading it makes you believe in luck. Did you know Dave M. while he was > running sporty cars? If I remember correctly he was a Vette, Cobra guy and ran > for the Shelby team. I think at LeMans too? > > http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/0306_johnny_rutherford/index.h t > ml > > -Ed- > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 18:47:25 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: kas kastner , WILLIAM TOBIN Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Memories Yes, I forgot that Hansgen was there too. Bobby Unser drove straight through the situation but never really spoke about it at the length that JR. did. Did you read the link to J.R.'s take on it? Truly remarkable that we still have him. Ray Arnold told me his dad, Chuck, had told him the he considered J.R. the best natural at the sport of going fast. Of course, that's one dirt boy speaking of another dirt driver. -Ed- --- On Sun, 10/12/08, WILLIAM TOBIN wrote: From: WILLIAM TOBIN Subject: Re: [Fot] Memories To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net, "kas kastner" Cc: "FOT" Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 7:29 PM Hi all, there's a good book by Michael Argetsinger entitled "Walt Hansgen." It follows Walt's career from the early '50's to his demise at LeMans in '66. It has a good chapter about the '64 Indy race in which walt drove. It's a good read and very informative about the early years of US road racing. I heard Michael has a new book coming out about Mark Donohue, one of the best ever. Take care, Bill----- Original Message ----- From: "EDWARD BARNARD" To: "kas kastner" Cc: "FOT" Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: [Fot] Memories > Kas: Really great photos of that situation. I do believe Salt passed away a > month later though. I don't know if he ever regained conciousness. > Below is a link to the story from J.R. about Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald. > Just reading it makes you believe in luck. Did you know Dave M. while he was > running sporty cars? If I remember correctly he was a Vette, Cobra guy and ran > for the Shelby team. I think at LeMans too? > > http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/0306_johnny_rutherford/index.h t > ml > > -Ed- > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 19:23:57 2008 From: marty sukey To: FOT Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:23:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fenders, San Diego -> East I have a set of fiberglass fenders sitting in San Diego that I would like to get closer to Ohio over the next 12 months. Probably not worth the price of shipping all that way. If there is anybody from the San Diego area that might have room in their car hauler heading to a race east then possibly hand them off to somebody heading more east then maybe they can get close to Ohio when I will be ready to start re-assembling the TR6 . If you might be able to lend a hand drop me a line.Thanks,Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn 10 hidden secrets from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 12 19:32:49 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: marty sukey Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:32:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fenders, San Diego -> East I'm in San Diego today, but leaving early tomorrow. Too bad, we probably could have gotten them on their way somehow. I'm here for the "Battle of the Paddle", a big standup paddle surfing race with more than 350 entrants. I thought I had first geezer nailed down (60 and up stock board class), but it was a clerical error--Mickey Munoz beat me, so I'm the SECOND fastest paddle surfing geezer. Details and pictures for any who might be remotely interested will be on Ke Nalu in a day or two (http://www.kenalu.com ) On Oct 12, 2008, at 6:23 PM, marty sukey wrote: > I have a set of fiberglass fenders sitting in San Diego that I would > like to > get closer to Ohio over the next 12 months. Probably not worth > the price of > shipping all that way. If there is anybody from the San > Diego area that might > have room in their car hauler heading to a race > east then possibly hand them > off to somebody heading more east then > maybe they can get close to Ohio when I > will be ready to start > re-assembling the TR6 . If you might be able to lend a > hand drop me a line.Thanks,Marty Sukey > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn 10 hidden secrets from > Jamie. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 > F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 09:01:30 2008 From: "J.C. Hassall" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:02:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] EP TR4 for sale in Christiansburg VA Folks, there is an EP TR4 for sale about 20 minutes from my home. I've seen the car and will be glad to forward my assessment to anyone who's interested in it. It's in fair shape (needs some body work, but he has the replacement panels), the frame seems to be solid but rusty. I have a few pix if anyone's interested. The log book is pretty sparse, so no joy determining much about its history. The owner is Ben Linkous, phone is 540.420.9212. jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 96% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 13:10:07 2008 From: Bobby Whitehead To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:09:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 > From: Bobby Whitehead > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net > > Hey Guys and Gals! > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me and Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. > > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was consistently slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. > > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been starting out 20 psi before each session. > > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt please... > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course incidents, but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come around. My reaction time is not as quick as reality time. > > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's on the rear, plus a rear sway bar. > > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel well with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the system yet but will probably do so this week. > > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is there a way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road more, maybe stiffer road spring? > > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at all of this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every weekend I go out. > > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm driving like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in racing.. I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns where I'm feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the car on the road... > > Comments or pointers appreciated... > > Bobby Whitehead > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 14:11:02 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:07:10 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? What compound do you use? SS, S, M? Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bobby Whitehead Gesendet: Montag, 13. Oktober 2008 21:10 An: fot@autox.team.net Betreff: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 > From: Bobby Whitehead > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net > > Hey Guys and Gals! > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me and Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. > > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was consistently slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. > > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been starting out 20 psi before each session. > > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt please... > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course incidents, but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come around. My reaction time is not as quick as reality time. > > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's on the rear, plus a rear sway bar. > > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel well with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the system yet but will probably do so this week. > > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is there a way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road more, maybe stiffer road spring? > > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at all of this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every weekend I go out. > > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm driving like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in racing.. I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns where I'm feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the car on the road... > > Comments or pointers appreciated... > > Bobby Whitehead > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 17:19:17 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: MadMarx Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:18:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? Old Carol Smith axiom...Soften the end that isn't working.... On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:07 PM, MadMarx wrote: > What compound do you use? SS, S, M? > > Chris > > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im > Auftrag von Bobby Whitehead > Gesendet: Montag, 13. Oktober 2008 21:10 > An: fot@autox.team.net > Betreff: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 > > From: Bobby Whitehead > > To: fot@autox.team.net > > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net > > > > Hey Guys and Gals! > > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me and > Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast > Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. > > > > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was consistently > slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. > > > > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been starting > out > 20 psi before each session. > > > > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt > please... > > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course incidents, > but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come around. My > reaction time is not as quick as reality time. > > > > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's on > the > rear, plus a rear sway bar. > > > > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that > relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel well > with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the system yet > but will probably do so this week. > > > > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and > Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is there > a > way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road more, maybe > stiffer road spring? > > > > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at all of > this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every weekend I go > out. > > > > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm driving > like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in > racing.. > I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns where I'm > feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the car on the > road... > > > > Comments or pointers appreciated... > > > > Bobby Whitehead > > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 18:03:29 2008 From: "Joe Boruch" To: srcypher@mac.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:02:24 GMT Subject: Re: [Fot] Tilton vs Stock Clutch (Was Clutch question) The set up that came with my car had 2 throw-out bearing bushings brazed together to reduce the travel to make up for the much shorter quartermaster clutch. To keep from over extending the pressure plate there was an adjustable stop on the clutch pedal. I have since changed to a Howe hydraulic release bearing, but still use an adjustable stop to keep from over extending the pressure plate. Joe(B) -- Scott Cypher wrote: Bill, a related question on stock vs. Tilton; I"m fitting an aluminum flywheel, 7 1/4 tilton single plate. >From my collection; I have a couple collars for release bearings, that are different lengths, in what look like PO modifications to deal with the different standoff distance off rear of the block given modified flywheel/pressure plates. With a tilton setup, how do you control the throw such that you don't over-extend the diaphram spring? Do the hydraulics take up the slack, do you have to use a different collar to control the throw distance, or do you have put a hard stop for the lever arm? After installing the tilton, and a longer collar, I have about 3/8" play between fully retracted and when the release bearing first touch the tilton diaphragm spring. What else should I look for? I unfortunately didn't measure the lightened stock steel flywheel & stock clutch setup standoff distance prior to this change. Thanks -Scott Cypher spitfireracer@xsmail.com SCCA #57 HP Spitfire 1500 #362573 Reading, PA http://gallery.mac.com/srcypher 1971 Spit MkIV/1500 RaceCar 1971 TR6 TBD 1976 TR7 Street 1968 GT6 Vintage "I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. Its the excitement only a free man can feel. A free man at the start of a long journey, whose conclusion is uncertain" On Oct 12, 2008, at 1:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: I've tried a lot of different clutches, including modified stockers, Tilton, etc., and I like the Quartermaster clutches best. 7.25 two plate. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijlYYVaa906EO10bKLGaVZDNN dfMv9nHZg8U94oIjs4s5Nfyq/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 18:45:10 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: , Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:41:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? ? > In this case old Carol would roll over and say " you want to roll the tire > off the rim?" Increase the pressure 4-5 lbs and put in some negative > camber at least another degree then check to make certain you are not > bottoming the rear suspension by putting a dab of grease on the bump stop > and see if it transfers and don't forget that shocks can also bottom out > and give an infinite spring rate and huge oversteer. Also the stock rear > spring if not de-arched will not have enough negative camber to start > with, so fix that first. > > Carol is correct in saying exactly what has been recommended. I always > lived by the words of "working on the offending end" BUT, that is talking > about race cars, not production cars that are being raced. There is one > hell'va lot of difference. In production cars you work on the OPPOSITE > end so that you can achieve a balance, you take STICK away from the > opposite end to get this balance. Race cars have the power, the tire size, > the rim width and the suspension design, weight balance to work in the > race environment, production cars are for going to the store and hopefully > the track by good guys who love them. Easy to become confused, been there > a lot of times. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert bownes" > To: "MadMarx" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > >> Old Carol Smith axiom...Soften the end that isn't working.... >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:07 PM, MadMarx >> wrote: >> >>> What compound do you use? SS, S, M? >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im >>> Auftrag von Bobby Whitehead >>> Gesendet: Montag, 13. Oktober 2008 21:10 >>> An: fot@autox.team.net >>> Betreff: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >>> >>> > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 >>> > From: Bobby Whitehead >>> > To: fot@autox.team.net >>> > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >>> > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net >>> > >>> > Hey Guys and Gals! >>> > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me and >>> Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast >>> Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. >>> > >>> > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was >>> > consistently >>> slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. >>> > >>> > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been starting >>> out >>> 20 psi before each session. >>> > >>> > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt >>> please... >>> > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course >>> > incidents, >>> but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come around. My >>> reaction time is not as quick as reality time. >>> > >>> > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's on >>> the >>> rear, plus a rear sway bar. >>> > >>> > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that >>> relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel >>> well >>> with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the system >>> yet >>> but will probably do so this week. >>> > >>> > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and >>> Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is >>> there >>> a >>> way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road more, maybe >>> stiffer road spring? >>> > >>> > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at all >>> > of >>> this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every weekend I >>> go >>> out. >>> > >>> > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm >>> > driving >>> like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in >>> racing.. >>> I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns where I'm >>> feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the car on >>> the >>> road... >>> > >>> > Comments or pointers appreciated... >>> > >>> > Bobby Whitehead >>> > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 19:02:53 2008 From: robertten1@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:02:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? I have found playing with the front suspension helps to control whats going on out back of the Spitfire/GT6.? I'm not entirely a fan of a rear swaybar.? Wha t are your tire pressures all around?? Though I'm just an autocrosser I got my advice from some racers from back in the day and their advice was a soft set up was the better way to go than the thought then of making the back end very firm ( hard shocks and camber-compensator ). I have 450lb. springs in front with shocks set about mid setting.? And, out back I have a 250lb. composite spring with a 1/2" spacer and shocks set at full soft.? I believe driving style has alot of how a car is set up.? So I wish you the best in setting up your Triumph! Cheers, Bob T -----Original Message----- From: robert bownes To: MadMarx Cc: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 7:18 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? Old Carol Smith axiom...Soften the end that isn't working.... On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:07 PM, MadMarx wrote: > What compound do you use? SS, S, M? > > Chris > > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im > Auftrag von Bobby Whitehead > Gesendet: Montag, 13. Oktober 2008 21:10 > An: fot@autox.team.net > Betreff: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 > > From: Bobby Whitehead > > To: fot@autox.team.net > > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net > > > > Hey Guys and Gals! > > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me and > Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast > Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. > > > > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was consistently > slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. > > > > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been starting > out > 20 psi before each session. > > > > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt > please... > > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course incidents, > but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come around. My > reaction time is not as quick as reality time. > > > > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's on > the > rear, plus a rear sway bar. > > > > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that > relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel well > with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the system yet > but will probably do so this week. > > > > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and > Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is there > a > way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road more , maybe > stiffer road spring? > > > > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at all of > this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every weekend I go > out. > > > > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm driving > like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in > racing.. > I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns where I'm > feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the car on the > road... > > > > Comments or pointers appreciated... > > > > Bobby Whitehead > > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 19:19:25 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "'Bobby Whitehead'" , Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:19:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? I'm running the hard compound Yok's on my Spitfire and I love them. Started at 26 all around and am now up to 32 front, 30 rear. They like lots of camber. Spring rate's per Kas. Anyone know where to get more of the Yokohama A032's? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bobby Whitehead Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 12:10 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 > From: Bobby Whitehead > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net > > Hey Guys and Gals! > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me and > Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast > Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. > > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was > consistently slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 > range. > > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been starting > out 20 psi before each session. > > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt > please... The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off > course incidents, but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end > wants to come around. My reaction time is not as quick as reality > time. > > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's on > the rear, plus a rear sway bar. > > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that > relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel > well with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the > system yet but will probably do so this week. > > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and > Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is > there a way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road > more, maybe stiffer road spring? > > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at all > of this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every > weekend I go out. > > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm > driving like a little girl. He did say however that there is no > coasting in racing.. I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, > there are turns where I'm feathering the throttle or off the gas on > the brake to keep the car on the road... > > Comments or pointers appreciated... > > Bobby Whitehead > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 19:45:51 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: "Norlin Engineering" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:40:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? Hi guys... I don't have any true track time with my GT6 MK1 just some limited autocross. But running 480LBS springs up front with Spax shocks, spacers required because the springs are so short the bonnet would come crashing down on the tires. DSCN1246.JPG Altered the location on the rear links where the spring connects. DSCN1188.JPG And then used a 3/4" diff block because the rear was just slightly going pos under load. GT6_MK1-4.jpg DSCN3926.JPG aug 25 - autox 117.jpg IMG_0066_andre.JPG I doubt this is very track worthy, but seems to suit my MK1 very well. I have a set of 13" wheels which I hope to fit some nice rubber to one day and see if the results are the same with the 15" wheels. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada On 13-Oct-08, at 9:19 PM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > I'm running the hard compound Yok's on my Spitfire and I love them. > Started > at 26 all around and am now up to 32 front, 30 rear. They like lots > of > camber. Spring rate's per Kas. Anyone know where to get more of the > Yokohama A032's? > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Bobby Whitehead > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 12:10 PM > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > >> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 >> From: Bobby Whitehead >> To: fot@autox.team.net >> Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >> Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net >> >> Hey Guys and Gals! >> Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me >> and >> Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast >> Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. >> >> My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was >> consistently slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 >> range. >> >> I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been >> starting >> out 20 psi before each session. >> >> My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt >> please... The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off >> course incidents, but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end >> wants to come around. My reaction time is not as quick as reality >> time. >> >> I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's >> on >> the rear, plus a rear sway bar. >> >> I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that >> relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel >> well with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the >> system yet but will probably do so this week. >> >> I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and >> Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is >> there a way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road >> more, maybe stiffer road spring? >> >> I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at >> all >> of this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every >> weekend I go out. >> >> George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm >> driving like a little girl. He did say however that there is no >> coasting in racing.. I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, >> there are turns where I'm feathering the throttle or off the gas on >> the brake to keep the car on the road... >> >> Comments or pointers appreciated... >> >> Bobby Whitehead >> #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 22:16:41 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Bobby Whitehead Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:10:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? I Don't know much about GT6's but the things I'd try all have to do with increasing the compliance of your rear end, which means softening the springs, going a little softer on tire pressure, ditching the rollbar, and perhaps revalving the shocks to increase rebound damping. Of course you do these things one at a time. I'd ditch the rollbar first. Or at least set it as soft as possible. the only cars that need rear rollbars are ones with super-stiff chassis. that doesn't describe any triumph I know (except Peyote) find a place where you can set up a skid pad--a circle about 200-300 feet in diameter that you drive around at max speed. It lets you set suspension up by tire temperature and shows you exactly where every nasty flaw is originating. A big abandoned parking lot and a bag of lime to mark the circle works fine until the cops come. the current economic woes may work well for freeing up lots of skid pads. Buy Carrol Smith's "Engineer in a pocket" which I've found invaluable for car setup. Buy everything Kas has written (I have multiple copies so I can always find them). those books will save you huge amounts of time, frustration and money. On Oct 13, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: >> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 >> From: Bobby Whitehead >> To: fot@autox.team.net >> Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >> Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net >> >> Hey Guys and Gals! >> Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me >> and Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with >> a fast Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. >> >> My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was >> consistently slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - >> 1:43 range. >> >> I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been >> starting out 20 psi before each session. >> >> My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt >> please... >> The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course >> incidents, but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to >> come around. My reaction time is not as quick as reality time. >> >> I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's >> on the rear, plus a rear sway bar. >> >> I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that >> relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the >> wheel well with and adjustable English made shock. I've not >> installed the system yet but will probably do so this week. >> >> I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and >> Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... >> Is there a way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the >> road more, maybe stiffer road spring? >> >> I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at >> all of this. However, I am getting an off course at least once >> every weekend I go out. >> >> George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm >> driving like a little girl. He did say however that there is no >> coasting in racing.. I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, >> there are turns where I'm feathering the throttle or off the gas on >> the brake to keep the car on the road... >> >> Comments or pointers appreciated... >> >> Bobby Whitehead >> #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 22:20:39 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Kas Kastner Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:20:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? I should have read the replies before answering--could have saved my breath--or at least my typing. I do think that everyone tends to tie down the back end of production racears way too much. People are always shocked when i bounce up and down in Peyote's seat and the rear end bobs like a Galaxie with bad shocks. Keep them soft so they stick and then go up front and eliminate the understeer that a soft rear end causes. Of course the reason I say that is least understeer won't generally snap spin you in front of me. On Oct 13, 2008, at 5:41 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > ? > > >> In this case old Carol would roll over and say " you want to roll >> the tire off the rim?" Increase the pressure 4-5 lbs and put in >> some negative camber at least another degree then check to make >> certain you are not bottoming the rear suspension by putting a dab >> of grease on the bump stop and see if it transfers and don't forget >> that shocks can also bottom out and give an infinite spring rate >> and huge oversteer. Also the stock rear spring if not de-arched >> will not have enough negative camber to start with, so fix that >> first. >> >> Carol is correct in saying exactly what has been recommended. I >> always lived by the words of "working on the offending end" BUT, >> that is talking about race cars, not production cars that are being >> raced. There is one hell'va lot of difference. In production cars >> you work on the OPPOSITE end so that you can achieve a balance, you >> take STICK away from the opposite end to get this balance. Race >> cars have the power, the tire size, the rim width and the >> suspension design, weight balance to work in the race environment, >> production cars are for going to the store and hopefully the track >> by good guys who love them. Easy to become confused, been there a >> lot of times. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bownes" >> To: "MadMarx" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >> >> >>> Old Carol Smith axiom...Soften the end that isn't working.... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:07 PM, MadMarx >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What compound do you use? SS, S, M? >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces@autox.team.net] Im >>>> Auftrag von Bobby Whitehead >>>> Gesendet: Montag, 13. Oktober 2008 21:10 >>>> An: fot@autox.team.net >>>> Betreff: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >>>> >>>> > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 >>>> > From: Bobby Whitehead >>>> > To: fot@autox.team.net >>>> > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >>>> > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net >>>> > >>>> > Hey Guys and Gals! >>>> > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with >>>> me and >>>> Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a >>>> fast >>>> Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. >>>> > >>>> > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was > >>>> consistently >>>> slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. >>>> > >>>> > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been >>>> starting >>>> out >>>> 20 psi before each session. >>>> > >>>> > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt >>>> please... >>>> > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course > >>>> incidents, >>>> but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come >>>> around. My >>>> reaction time is not as quick as reality time. >>>> > >>>> > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and >>>> Koni's on >>>> the >>>> rear, plus a rear sway bar. >>>> > >>>> > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros >>>> that >>>> relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the >>>> wheel well >>>> with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the >>>> system yet >>>> but will probably do so this week. >>>> > >>>> > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes >>>> and >>>> Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... >>>> Is there >>>> a >>>> way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road >>>> more, maybe >>>> stiffer road spring? >>>> > >>>> > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green >>>> at all > of >>>> this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every >>>> weekend I go >>>> out. >>>> > >>>> > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm >>>> > driving >>>> like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in >>>> racing.. >>>> I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns >>>> where I'm >>>> feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the >>>> car on the >>>> road... >>>> > >>>> > Comments or pointers appreciated... >>>> > >>>> > Bobby Whitehead >>>> > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot@autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot@autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 23:47:06 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 07:37:09 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? I agree with this. I run stock springs at rear, just with uprated shocks to avoid too much hopping. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bill Babcock Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Oktober 2008 06:20 An: Kas Kastner Cc: bownes@serirecom.team.net; fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? I should have read the replies before answering--could have saved my breath--or at least my typing. I do think that everyone tends to tie down the back end of production racears way too much. People are always shocked when i bounce up and down in Peyote's seat and the rear end bobs like a Galaxie with bad shocks. Keep them soft so they stick and then go up front and eliminate the understeer that a soft rear end causes. Of course the reason I say that is least understeer won't generally snap spin you in front of me. On Oct 13, 2008, at 5:41 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > ? > > >> In this case old Carol would roll over and say " you want to roll >> the tire off the rim?" Increase the pressure 4-5 lbs and put in >> some negative camber at least another degree then check to make >> certain you are not bottoming the rear suspension by putting a dab >> of grease on the bump stop and see if it transfers and don't forget >> that shocks can also bottom out and give an infinite spring rate >> and huge oversteer. Also the stock rear spring if not de-arched >> will not have enough negative camber to start with, so fix that >> first. >> >> Carol is correct in saying exactly what has been recommended. I >> always lived by the words of "working on the offending end" BUT, >> that is talking about race cars, not production cars that are being >> raced. There is one hell'va lot of difference. In production cars >> you work on the OPPOSITE end so that you can achieve a balance, you >> take STICK away from the opposite end to get this balance. Race >> cars have the power, the tire size, the rim width and the >> suspension design, weight balance to work in the race environment, >> production cars are for going to the store and hopefully the track >> by good guys who love them. Easy to become confused, been there a >> lot of times. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bownes" >> To: "MadMarx" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >> >> >>> Old Carol Smith axiom...Soften the end that isn't working.... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 4:07 PM, MadMarx >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What compound do you use? SS, S, M? >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces@autox.team.net] Im >>>> Auftrag von Bobby Whitehead >>>> Gesendet: Montag, 13. Oktober 2008 21:10 >>>> An: fot@autox.team.net >>>> Betreff: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >>>> >>>> > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 >>>> > From: Bobby Whitehead >>>> > To: fot@autox.team.net >>>> > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? >>>> > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net >>>> > >>>> > Hey Guys and Gals! >>>> > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with >>>> me and >>>> Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a >>>> fast >>>> Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. >>>> > >>>> > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was > >>>> consistently >>>> slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. >>>> > >>>> > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been >>>> starting >>>> out >>>> 20 psi before each session. >>>> > >>>> > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt >>>> please... >>>> > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course > >>>> incidents, >>>> but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come >>>> around. My >>>> reaction time is not as quick as reality time. >>>> > >>>> > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and >>>> Koni's on >>>> the >>>> rear, plus a rear sway bar. >>>> > >>>> > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros >>>> that >>>> relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the >>>> wheel well >>>> with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the >>>> system yet >>>> but will probably do so this week. >>>> > >>>> > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes >>>> and >>>> Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... >>>> Is there >>>> a >>>> way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road >>>> more, maybe >>>> stiffer road spring? >>>> > >>>> > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green >>>> at all > of >>>> this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every >>>> weekend I go >>>> out. >>>> > >>>> > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm >>>> > driving >>>> like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in >>>> racing.. >>>> I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns >>>> where I'm >>>> feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the >>>> car on the >>>> road... >>>> > >>>> > Comments or pointers appreciated... >>>> > >>>> > Bobby Whitehead >>>> > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot@autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot@autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 13 23:47:37 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: "Bobby Whitehead" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:33:08 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? Could be cornering technique as much as anything. Based on my experience and on observations of others, getting into an apex without having some power on and applying power abruptly after weight transfers to the outside tires is a prescription for breaking traction at the rear of a rear wheel drive car, whether it has a limited slip diff or not. This tendency can be minimized by entering at a reasonable speed and being on the power in moderation as weight is transferred. The throttle then takes the active role in controlling wheelspin. Basic stuff I know, but worth reminding oneself. STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby Whitehead" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:09 AM Subject: [Fot] Fwd: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 8:17:07 -0700 > > From: Bobby Whitehead > > To: fot@autox.team.net > > Subject: racing the GT6.... tires or suspension? > > Cc: fot-request@autox.team.net > > > > Hey Guys and Gals! > > Just got back from Hallett OK. The FoT was in strong force with me and Gary Fuqua... TEAM TWO... we did have another guy show up with a fast Spitfire... engineers... whadda ya gonna do with them. > > > > My GT6 seems to run fairly well on the short course. I was consistently slow... running ... I ran a few laps in the 1:44 - 1:43 range. > > > > I'm running Yokohama Advan 032R 175/60 R13 77H... I have been starting out 20 psi before each session. > > > > My problem seems to be a happy rear end... no comments on my butt please... > > The GT wants to come around in the rear. I had two off course incidents, but I've really got to be sharp as the rear end wants to come around. My reaction time is not as quick as reality time. > > > > I've got what seems to be mostly stock rear leaf spring, and Koni's on the rear, plus a rear sway bar. > > > > I've purchased a shock relocation conversion from Rimmer Bros that relocates the upper shock mount to the frame versus inside the wheel well with and adjustable English made shock. I've not installed the system yet but will probably do so this week. > > > > I'm I running the right tire and pressure? Some of the Bugeyes and Spridgets are running Hoosiers which I believe is not a radial... Is there a way that I can plan on keeping the rear end down on the road more, maybe stiffer road spring? > > > > I'm just a little over a year in my racing, so still very green at all of this. However, I am getting an off course at least once every weekend I go out. > > > > George Curl (my original instructor) did everything but say I'm driving like a little girl. He did say however that there is no coasting in racing.. I'm not on the gas on the brake all the time, there are turns where I'm feathering the throttle or off the gas on the brake to keep the car on the road... > > > > Comments or pointers appreciated... > > > > Bobby Whitehead > > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 06:32:38 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: FOT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:28:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts Do you guys normally loctite them? Thanks. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 07:03:38 2008 From: tr3a58@verizon.net To: triosan@gmail.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 07:52:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Bearings for Southwick front hubs and Uncle Jack axels Chuck; I have the Southwick hubs and didn't change the bearings when installing the Stub axles. The listing I have from Southwick is as follows: Timken numbers are Inner cup - 1920 Inner cone - 1986 Outer cup - 5185 Outer cone - 5062 Inner seal collar - contact Southwick Inner seal - 13509 CR I also have the origional instruction sheet if you need it. I can scan it and send as a Jpeg. Dean T. Oct 13, 2008 02:57:30 PM, triosan@gmail.com wrote: Can someone please tell me the timken[or other] inner and outer bearing numbers required when using the Uncle Jack axles in the Southwick front aluminum hobs? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 07:03:47 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: FOT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:58:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts I just found the bolts loosened after the run home from the Glen. Will just have to make it part of the routine maintenance checks I guess. http://www.gt6.ca/08/0502/slides/DSCN3521.html A. 2008/10/14 Kramer, Robert > I use studs so the answer for them is yes, but I do not loctite the nuts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Andre Rousseau > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:29 AM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts > > Do you guys normally loctite them? > Thanks. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 08:35:33 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: "Andre Rousseau" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:23:39 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts That is your problem. Use studs ans nuts. Do not use bolts. SP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts > I just found the bolts loosened after the run home from the Glen. > Will just have to make it part of the routine maintenance checks I guess. > > http://www.gt6.ca/08/0502/slides/DSCN3521.html > > A. > > 2008/10/14 Kramer, Robert > > > I use studs so the answer for them is yes, but I do not loctite the nuts. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > > Behalf Of Andre Rousseau > > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:29 AM > > To: FOT > > Subject: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts > > > > Do you guys normally loctite them? > > Thanks. > > > > A. > > > > -- > > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 09:35:10 2008 From: Robert Lang To: Steven Preiss Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts On Tue, 14 Oct 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > That is your problem. Use studs ans nuts. Do not use bolts. > SP Hmmm... with my setup(s), I can't get use studs / nuts on the #1 ex lower fastener and at least one more (maybe #3 lower). So I HAVE to use bolts. This is TR6 with a header. I have used Moss, Monza and Falcon. They all have the same interference issues. But a allen head cap screw will work fine for this app. Just torque to spec and then re-torque while the motor is still hot and things seem to hold fine. I had 20k street miles and no leaks with one car. The race car never seems to need any re-tightening either, but I don't sit at 6000 for very long (autocrosser). regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 09:51:32 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Robert Lang" , "Steven Preiss" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:46:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts I believe the problem is this particular cylinder head is the narrow early type for the GT-6 and has little brackets and cone washers to hold the manifold thus using studs in some places is not possible. Drilling the bolt heads and safety wiring is possible but a pain to do. Loctite is this situation does not work too well because of the heat from the exhaust. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "Steven Preiss" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts > On Tue, 14 Oct 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > >> That is your problem. Use studs ans nuts. Do not use bolts. >> SP > > Hmmm... with my setup(s), I can't get use studs / nuts on the #1 ex lower > fastener and at least one more (maybe #3 lower). So I HAVE to use bolts. > This is TR6 with a header. I have used Moss, Monza and Falcon. They all > have the same interference issues. > > But a allen head cap screw will work fine for this app. Just torque to > spec and then re-torque while the motor is still hot and things seem to > hold fine. I had 20k street miles and no leaks with one car. The race car > never seems to need any re-tightening either, but I don't sit at 6000 for > very long (autocrosser). > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent > Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! > Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 10:06:32 2008 From: "DAN OTTS" To: "FOT" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:04:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1300/1500 Guys, I am preparing to move up in class by replacing my 1147 with either a 1300 or 1500. In your opinion, which is more suited for competition. I've heard conflicting opinions about which is better. Also, any recommendations about enhancements to make the engine stronger and more competitive? I already have the Weber. Many Thanks, Dan O. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 10:51:48 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Kas Kastner" , "Robert Lang" , Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:20:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts While we're on the topic, I have a header here for the early GT6 head (Mk I). It might also work for the Triumph 2000 of the same vintage, but I'm not sure about that. Can anyone use it? I'm in Wisconsin. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:47 AM To: Robert Lang; Steven Preiss Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts I believe the problem is this particular cylinder head is the narrow early type for the GT-6 and has little brackets and cone washers to hold the manifold thus using studs in some places is not possible. Drilling the bolt heads and safety wiring is possible but a pain to do. Loctite is this situation does not work too well because of the heat from the exhaust. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "Steven Preiss" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts > On Tue, 14 Oct 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > >> That is your problem. Use studs ans nuts. Do not use bolts. >> SP > > Hmmm... with my setup(s), I can't get use studs / nuts on the #1 ex > lower fastener and at least one more (maybe #3 lower). So I HAVE to use bolts. > This is TR6 with a header. I have used Moss, Monza and Falcon. They > all have the same interference issues. > > But a allen head cap screw will work fine for this app. Just torque to > spec and then re-torque while the motor is still hot and things seem > to hold fine. I had 20k street miles and no leaks with one car. The > race car never seems to need any re-tightening either, but I don't sit > at 6000 for very long (autocrosser). > > regards, > rml > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- > Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent > Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! > Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 10:52:17 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: DOTTS46@q.com, fot@Autox.Team.Net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:24:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 1300 It has less recip/rotating weight = less loads = high rpm. Good rods & pistons are vital, as are frequent crack-checks on the crank. Weber? uhhh... no comment. Glen -----Original Message----- From: DAN OTTS To: FOT Sent: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:04 pm Subject: [Fot] 1300/1500 Guys, I am preparing to move up in class by replacing my 1147 with either a 1300 or 1500. In your opinion, which is more suited for competition. I've heard conflicting opinions about which is better. Also, any recommendations about enhancements to make the engine stronger and more competitive? I already have the Weber. Many Thanks, Dan O. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 10:52:24 2008 From: "DAN OTTS" To: "FOT" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:32:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1300/1500 Guys, I should clarify that I will be road racing with 1300 or 1500 engine. Thanks, Dan O. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 11:06:36 2008 From: "Terry Stetler" To: "FOT" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:42:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 The early "small crank" 1300's are best from a durability standpoint. The 1500 should never have been built. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: DAN OTTS To: FOT Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: [Fot] 1300/1500 Guys, I am preparing to move up in class by replacing my 1147 with either a 1300 or 1500. In your opinion, which is more suited for competition. I've heard conflicting opinions about which is better. Also, any recommendations about enhancements to make the engine stronger and more competitive? I already have the Weber. Many Thanks, Dan O. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 11:21:18 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: DOTTS46@q.com, fot@Autox.Team.Net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:59:13 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 If you intend to vintage race, you cannot run "dual Webers" on a 1300 or 1500 without classification penalties in most organizations. With SVRA you can replace twin SU's with a single Weber and stay in F-Production. You could also run the 1500 with a single SU in FP. Put the dual Webers on either motor and you are up to EP. I have never seen a 1500 running with SVRA but suspect that isn't a good choice. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra@aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 10/14/2008 12:53:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DOTTS46@q.com writes: I should clarify that I will be road racing with 1300 or 1500 engine. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 11:36:13 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: FOT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:24:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Triumph Race @ The Glen Sorry for the long delay, but been a little busy. Here is the quick video from the Sunday Triumph race. http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA And race photos at the same time. http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/Sunday/index.html Yes, I was shooting video for one lap and then shooting stills for the next seemed to work out. Enjoy. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 11:36:58 2008 From: "Charly Mitchel" To: "Robert Lang" , "Steven Preiss" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:25:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts I have the same problem on my TR6 header and use studs. It's a pain to do but I have to tighten the stud nuts a little at a time as I draw the header up to the head. I also have a wrapped header (not shown in attached picture) and PI which makes it even more difficult. I have the little footballs as I call them and I use brass nuts also and have never had it come loose. I also use the heavy duty gasket. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "Steven Preiss" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Exhaust header bolts > On Tue, 14 Oct 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > >> That is your problem. Use studs ans nuts. Do not use bolts. >> SP > > Hmmm... with my setup(s), I can't get use studs / nuts on the #1 ex lower > fastener and at least one more (maybe #3 lower). So I HAVE to use bolts. > This is TR6 with a header. I have used Moss, Monza and Falcon. They all > have the same interference issues. > > But a allen head cap screw will work fine for this app. Just torque to > spec and then re-torque while the motor is still hot and things seem to > hold fine. I had 20k street miles and no leaks with one car. The race car > never seems to need any re-tightening either, but I don't sit at 6000 for > very long (autocrosser). > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent > Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! > Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/bmp which had a name of Jun09^14.bmp] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 12:34:01 2008 From: "John Macartney" To: "DAN OTTS" , "FOT" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:17:05 +0100 Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 Dan, the very best engine that Standard-Triumph ever built for the Spitfire was the 1300 that was used only in the Mk 3. The MkIV 1300 wasn't as good - but reasonable - and the 1500 was a complete waste of space. John Macartney ex Standard-Triumph UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAN OTTS" To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM Subject: [Fot] 1300/1500 > Guys, > > I am preparing to move up in class by replacing my 1147 with either a 1300 or > 1500. In your opinion, which is more suited for competition. I've heard > conflicting opinions about which is better. > > Also, any recommendations about enhancements to make the engine stronger and > more competitive? I already have the Weber. > > Many Thanks, > > Dan O. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 12:45:00 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: "John Macartney" , "DAN OTTS" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:42:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 There are an awful lot of people doing some pretty amazing things with the 1500. Those of you who were at the FOT event at Hallett a couple of years ago care to comment? I seem to remember an awful lot of people being very impressed with the performance of the Jerry Barker and Chuck Gee 1500-powered cars. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:17 PM To: DAN OTTS; FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 Dan, the very best engine that Standard-Triumph ever built for the Spitfire was the 1300 that was used only in the Mk 3. The MkIV 1300 wasn't as good - but reasonable - and the 1500 was a complete waste of space. John Macartney ex Standard-Triumph UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAN OTTS" To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM Subject: [Fot] 1300/1500 > Guys, > > I am preparing to move up in class by replacing my 1147 with either a 1300 or > 1500. In your opinion, which is more suited for competition. I've heard > conflicting opinions about which is better. > > Also, any recommendations about enhancements to make the engine stronger and > more competitive? I already have the Weber. > > Many Thanks, > > Dan O. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 12:55:27 2008 From: Ernest Husmann To: FOT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 Amazing is an understatement regarding the way Chuck Gee (Spitfire) and Jerry Barker (Herald) preformed at Hallet; I saw it and had still had trouble believing it. While both are good drivers, their car preparation was exceptional. I suspect that there are considerably more 1500 spare parts around that there are 1300 spare parts available. Of course we are all entitled to our opinions. Ernie There are an awful lot of people doing some pretty amazing things with the 1500. Those of you who were at the FOT event at Hallett a couple of years ago care to comment? I seem to remember an awful lot of people being very impressed with the performance of the Jerry Barker and Chuck Gee 1500-powered cars. Scott B. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 13:00:25 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:00:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 All I know is the average lifetime of an 1147 engine for me was about 25 minutes. On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > Amazing is an understatement regarding the way Chuck Gee (Spitfire) and > Jerry > Barker (Herald) preformed at Hallet; I saw it and had still had trouble > believing it. While both are good drivers, their car preparation was > exceptional. > > I suspect that there are considerably more 1500 spare parts around that > there > are 1300 spare parts available. > > Of course we are all entitled to our opinions. > > Ernie > > > > > There are an awful lot of people doing some pretty amazing things with > the 1500. Those of you who were at the FOT event at Hallett a couple of > years ago care to comment? I seem to remember an awful lot of people > being very impressed with the performance of the Jerry Barker and Chuck > Gee 1500-powered cars. > > Scott B. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 13:31:48 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Terry Stetler" , "FOT" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:31:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 I would have agreed with everyone on the worthlessness of the 1500 years ago, but most of the problems were solved by changing the oil drilling in the crank & using the right oil pump. Lots about this in my Historical & Technical Guide pages 95 thru 105 and again more in the last book Racing & Winning pages 172 & 173 . Jerry Barker can do the crank job for you if you do not have the equipment. It will rev and stay together and make a LOT of power but without the mods I detail you'll be lucky to get out of the parking lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Stetler" To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] 1300/1500 > The early "small crank" 1300's are best from a durability standpoint. > > The 1500 should never have been built. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DAN OTTS > To: FOT > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:04 PM > Subject: [Fot] 1300/1500 > > > Guys, > > I am preparing to move up in class by replacing my 1147 with either a > 1300 > or > 1500. In your opinion, which is more suited for competition. I've heard > conflicting opinions about which is better. > > Also, any recommendations about enhancements to make the engine stronger > and > more competitive? I already have the Weber. > > Many Thanks, > > Dan O. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot stinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 13:35:09 2008 From: John Herrera To: Andre Rousseau , FOT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:35:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] The Triumph Race @ The Glen > Here is the quick video from the Sunday Triumph race.> > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA> > And race photos at the same time.> > http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/Sunday/index.html> > Yes, I was shooting video for one lap and then shooting stills for the next> seemed to work out.> > Enjoy.> > A. You must have been standing next to me. Bill Babcock's relatives were close by, too. They cheered every time his name was announced! John H. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 14:26:32 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: John Herrera Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:24:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] The Triumph Race @ The Glen Yes they were very happy. Did you hear the guys complaining the race before when the TR's beat the Vette! A Sent from my iPod Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca On 14-Oct-08, at 15:35, John Herrera wrote: > > Here is the quick video from the Sunday Triumph race. > > > > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA > > > > And race photos at the same time. > > > > http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/Sunday/index.html > > > > Yes, I was shooting video for one lap and then shooting stills for > the next > > seemed to work out. > > > > Enjoy. > > > > A. > > You must have been standing next to me. > > Bill Babcock's relatives were close by, too. They cheered every time > his name was announced! > > John H. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 15:01:27 2008 From: John Herrera To: Andre Rousseau Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:01:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] The Triumph Race @ The Glen > Yes they were very happy. Did you hear the guys complaining the race > before when the TR's beat the Vette!> > A Yes! John H. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 15:31:15 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: John Herrera Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:30:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] The Triumph Race @ The Glen One of them pointed at a TR3 as it drove by and asked how could that be a race car. I just smiled. A Sent from my iPod Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca On 14-Oct-08, at 17:01, John Herrera wrote: > > Yes they were very happy. Did you hear the guys complaining the race > > before when the TR's beat the Vette! > > > > A > > > Yes! > > John H. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 10:42:47 2008 From: Shane Ingate To: Friends of Triumph , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:42:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the following straight. Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly after hitting the apex. It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O I'll likely not see these cars together again. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 10:53:13 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: hottr6@hotmail.com, fot@autox.team.net, andre@gt6.ca Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:54:04 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder engine. Should be bottled and sold. > Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: > > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA > > Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear > to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the > following straight. > > Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see > Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly > after hitting the apex. > > It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by > 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of > drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? > > Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original > format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not > use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O > I'll likely not see these cars together again. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 > F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 10:57:40 2008 From: "Kramer, Robert" To: "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:57:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Watching the video brought up a couple of questions. Are the 3 Catabwa Island TR6's all running the same equipment and is Sam that good? Did both the Group 44 TR6 and TR8 blow engines in the same weekend? I think that was the TR6 that went in smoking and left an oil slick on pit entry. Bob -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:54 AM To: hottr6@hotmail.com; fot@autox.team.net; andre@gt6.ca Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder engine. Should be bottled and sold. > Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: > > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA > > Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear > to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the > following straight. > > Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see > Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly > after hitting the apex. > > It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by > 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of > drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? > > Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original > format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not > use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O > I'll likely not see these cars together again. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 > F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 10:57:56 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: N197TR4@cs.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:57:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? ;) Its chicken soup for the TR guy's soul. I had not driven the GT6 since the Glen and boy it made a hell of an improvement to my weekend. Winter is coming, I figure by Nov she'll be garage bound. So many little jobs I need to do over the winter to improve on the car. A. 2008/10/15 > I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder engine. > Should be bottled and sold. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 11:08:28 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: N197TR4@cs.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:08:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? I'd say Tony was being nice to the engine since he didn't have any significant competition, but I've raced with him in a Corvette, and he makes that engine squeeze out sounds that aren't supposed to come from corvettes. Maybe he's nicer to the TR250K. On Oct 15, 2008, at 9:54 AM, N197TR4@cs.com wrote: > I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder > engine. Should > be bottled and sold. > > >> Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: >> >> http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA >> >> Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear >> to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the >> following straight. >> >> Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see >> Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly >> after hitting the apex. >> >> It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by >> 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of >> drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? >> >> Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original >> format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not >> use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O >> I'll likely not see these cars together again. >> >> Shane Ingate in NM >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. >> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 >> F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> > >

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening > at your destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 11:21:10 2008 From: emanteno@comcast.net To: "Kramer, Robert" , "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:21:00 +0000 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Kramer, Robert" > Did both the Group 44 TR6 and TR8 blow engines in the same weekend? I think > that was the TR6 that went in smoking and left an oil slick on pit entry. No, the TR6 was the white number 7 from the northwest. And Sam IS that good. Irv _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 11:40:56 2008 From: "Joe Boruch" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:39:41 GMT Subject: [Fot] NJMP Lightning I plan on racing in the SCCA triple regional this weekend at New Jersey Motorsports Park Lightning course. Rob Dardano is also planning to be there with his TR6. Any other FOTers going to be in the area? I have room on my crew list if anyone wants to check out the track. Joe(B) ____________________________________________________________ Click here for a free search to find an interior design school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijngK3PKo0y0jZpNPwyogvC8Q eNlMWsW4EWsTlK1ps0Xukn9o/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 12:25:12 2008 From: George Harmuth To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:24:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 26 Joe, I'll be there with my Spitfire running in HP. Stop by the motorhome for a cool one. mike I plan on racing in the SCCA triple regional this weekend at New Jersey Motorsports Park Lightning course. Rob Dardano is also planning to be there with his TR6. Any other FOTers going to be in the area? I have room on my crew list if anyone wants to check out the track. Joe(B) G. Michael Harmuth Software Engineer Automated Material Handling Equipment Engineering Services 845-894-8088 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 12:35:13 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Bill Babcock" , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:35:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Good racers know you only roll out enough to win. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? > I'd say Tony was being nice to the engine since he didn't have any > significant competition, but I've raced with him in a Corvette, and he > makes that engine squeeze out sounds that aren't supposed to come from > corvettes. Maybe he's nicer to the TR250K. > > On Oct 15, 2008, at 9:54 AM, N197TR4@cs.com wrote: > >> I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder >> engine. Should >> be bottled and sold. >> >> >>> Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: >>> >>> http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA >>> >>> Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear >>> to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the >>> following straight. >>> >>> Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see >>> Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly >>> after hitting the apex. >>> >>> It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by >>> 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of >>> drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? >>> >>> Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original >>> format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not >>> use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O >>> I'll likely not see these cars together again. >>> >>> Shane Ingate in NM >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. >>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 >>> F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening >> at your destination. >> Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out >> (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 12:37:36 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: FOT Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:37:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcojVtrTNzo Now on youtube. A. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 13:17:53 2008 From: Larry Young To: FOT Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:17:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Another Suspicious Car Buyer - Peter J Bowman? I've got a guy that wants to buy my Allard roadster sight unseen. He made an offer to buy it even before talking to me. All he has seen is this webpage - www.tildentechnologies.com/AllardK2. I just now spoke to him on the phone, and he is ready to send payment. He lives in Virginia (area code 434). What was the advice from the group on best form of payment, etc.? I have scanned the net. He's active in an AC Owner's club forum. Also saw where he was selling a Maserati at a Maserati enthusiats site. Does anyone know this guy? Thanks, Larry Young _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 13:59:56 2008 From: rikrock@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:59:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] NJMP Lightning I'll be there with Dave Miller and his EP TR4.? Dave Yeager will be there with his IT VW (the TR4 STILL isn't ready ;-)? I hate missing the VRG event at The Glen, though. Rich Rock _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 14:15:22 2008 From: "Russ Moore" To: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:14:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen/VRG I'll be at The Glen with VRG this weekend with the Spitfire. Andy Konopka will join me with his Spitfire also as will Sid Lessard with his Canadian Spitfire. Anyone else plan on being there? Donn Sopp's Spitfire is still hanger bound. Russ Moore Spitfire #49 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of rikrock@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:00 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] NJMP Lightning I'll be there with Dave Miller and his EP TR4.? Dave Yeager will be there with his IT VW (the TR4 STILL isn't ready ;-)? I hate missing the VRG event at The Glen, though. Rich Rock Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 19:48:24 2008 From: "Mike Munson" To: "'Kramer, Robert'" , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:48:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Sam's car has been prepared further than Jim and Jacks cars. That being said, Sam is one of the best drivers in the SCCA EP class and has track records at several tracks in that class. I think he also won the National championship this year in the class he runs in NASA. He did feel bad about running off from everybody but he only knows one way to race and that is wide open. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:58 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Watching the video brought up a couple of questions. Are the 3 Catabwa Island TR6's all running the same equipment and is Sam that good? Did both the Group 44 TR6 and TR8 blow engines in the same weekend? I think that was the TR6 that went in smoking and left an oil slick on pit entry. Bob -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:54 AM To: hottr6@hotmail.com; fot@autox.team.net; andre@gt6.ca Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder engine. Should be bottled and sold. > Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: > > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA > > Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear > to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the > following straight. > > Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see > Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly > after hitting the apex. > > It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by > 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of > drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? > > Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original > format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not > use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O > I'll likely not see these cars together again. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!55 0 > F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1715 - Release Date: 10/8/2008 7:19 PM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 19:56:49 2008 From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Fot" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:56:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Stupid question time.... I thought that SCCA cars were not eligible for official placement or podium position in the Triumph race. Was the 88 car an SCCA car? Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike Munson Sent: October 15, 2008 9:48 PM To: 'Kramer, Robert'; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Sam's car has been prepared further than Jim and Jacks cars. That being said, Sam is one of the best drivers in the SCCA EP class and has track records at several tracks in that class. I think he also won the National championship this year in the class he runs in NASA. He did feel bad about running off from everybody but he only knows one way to race and that is wide open. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 23:25:40 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Larry Young Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:25:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Another Suspicious Car Buyer - Peter J Bowman? Interbank transfers are fine, cash works, you can even take a personal check if you have plenty of time to clear it and your bank understands you need the transaction to be ironclad. If you have any questions the bank can help you On Oct 15, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Larry Young wrote: > I've got a guy that wants to buy my Allard roadster sight unseen. > He made an offer to buy it even before talking to me. All he has > seen is this webpage - www.tildentechnologies.com/AllardK2. I just > now spoke to him on the phone, and he is ready to send payment. He > lives in Virginia (area code 434). What was the advice from the > group on best form of payment, etc.? I have scanned the net. He's > active in an AC Owner's club forum. Also saw where he was selling a > Maserati at a Maserati enthusiats site. Does anyone know this guy? > Thanks, > Larry Young > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 23:31:57 2008 From: "quicktr4" To: , "Kramer, Robert" , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:43:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? We have a a running joke around the pits at sovren events. if you want to take 5 seconds off your lap times just put tony in your car.he can make any car go faster than it should go. BUT when driving a one off irreplacable car he might back it down to 10theth. hope we can run the kas cup closer to the west coast portland would be great jeff quick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Kramer, Robert" ; Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Kramer, Robert" > >> Did both the Group 44 TR6 and TR8 blow engines in the same weekend? I >> think >> that was the TR6 that went in smoking and left an oil slick on pit entry. > > No, the TR6 was the white number 7 from the northwest. > And Sam IS that good. > Irv > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 23:38:57 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'quicktr4'" , , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:38:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Maybe the true identity of "The Stig" from Top Gear is really Tony. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of quicktr4 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:43 PM To: emanteno@comcast.net; Kramer, Robert; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? We have a a running joke around the pits at sovren events. if you want to take 5 seconds off your lap times just put tony in your car.he can make any car go faster than it should go. BUT when driving a one off irreplacable car he might back it down to 10theth. hope we can run the kas cup closer to the west coast portland would be great jeff quick _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 06:06:16 2008 From: Bill Sohl To: FOT Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:05:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More Triumph Photos from Watkins Glen Vintage Races FOTers, additional photos shot by my son during WG Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: Jessica Sohl To: Dad ; Bill ; 'Linda Sohl' Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:39 PM Subject: Triumph Photos from Watkins Glen Vintage Races Here are a few photos taken of the Triumph during this year's Vintage Races at Watkins Glen. Enjoy! http://dragon-ink.smugmug.com/gallery/6091484_iz7wg#382438136_oHKAY Jessi & Sean _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 09:55:42 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: vintage-race@autox.team.net, triumphs@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:55:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Interstate 80 travel in October- Iowa to Laramie,WY List(s): I have an empty enclosed trailer going from Jesup, IA to Laramie, WY, mostly on I-80. This would be the week of 26 October. If someone has an easy fit, there might be a win/win here. I could vary my route somewhat , depending on the circumstances. Contact me off list.... N197tr4@cs.com (FYI: At some point in the future, I might have another trip with an empty trailer coming back from Southern California) Joe A


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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 11:00:13 2008 From: John Herrera To: Bill Sohl , FOT Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:59:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] More Triumph Photos from Watkins Glen Vintage Races > FOTers, additional photos shot by my son during WG> > Bill Sohl Thanks to your son, Bill. I'm number one. I oredered a print. John H. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 17:19:22 2008 From: "Gary Horstkorta" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:16:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Wanted: TR4 Hello: I have a friend who wants to purchase a solid axle TR4 for vintage racing. He is not an FOT member but will be nominated as soon as he finds a car, therefore, I am asking for him. He would prefer a car ready to race and one located in the Western U.S. as he is a resident of Northern California but will consider a suitable car if located in other parts of the country. You can contact me off-line at vintage.racer@comcast.net if you know of anything for sale. Thanks. Gary 1962 TR4 1969 TR6 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 17:55:51 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: vintage.racer@comcast.net ("Gary Horstkorta"), fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:54:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Wanted=3A_=A0TR4?= Gary, He clearly has good taste in friends & cars. I saw a very nice 'starter' TR4 at MOSPORT in June, but lost track of the information. I know of a starter Spitfire, if anyone is interested. Joe A >Hello: > > > >I have a friend who wants to purchase a solid axle TR4 for vintage racing. >He is not an FOT member but will be nominated as soon as he finds a car, >therefore, I am asking for him. He would prefer a car ready to race and >one located in the Western U.S. as he is a resident of Northern California >but will consider a suitable car if located in other parts of the country. >You can contact me off-line at vintage.racer@comcast.net if you know of >anything for sale. Thanks. > > > >Gary > > > >1962 TR4 > >1969 TR6 >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 17:59:58 2008 From: Bruce Ivanyshyn To: "'N197TR4@cs.com'" , "\"Gary Horstkorta\"" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:59:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Wanted=3A_=A0TR4?= I am the fellow with the 63 Spitfire from Mosport, Ontario Canada at spitfire@golden.net Bruce -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:55 PM To: "Gary Horstkorta"; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Wanted: TR4 Gary, He clearly has good taste in friends & cars. I saw a very nice 'starter' TR4 at MOSPORT in June, but lost track of the information. I know of a starter Spitfire, if anyone is interested. Joe A >Hello: > > > >I have a friend who wants to purchase a solid axle TR4 for vintage racing. >He is not an FOT member but will be nominated as soon as he finds a car, >therefore, I am asking for him. He would prefer a car ready to race and >one located in the Western U.S. as he is a resident of Northern California >but will consider a suitable car if located in other parts of the country. >You can contact me off-line at vintage.racer@comcast.net if you know of >anything for sale. Thanks. > > > >Gary > > > >1962 TR4 > >1969 TR6 >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 18:17:15 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: bivanyshyn@CRMCanada.com (Bruce Ivanyshyn), Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:16:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Wanted=3A_=A0TR4?= i saw a TR4 on a trailer at Mosport with a FOR SALE sign on it. do you know anything about it? joe a >I am the fellow with the 63 Spitfire from Mosport, Ontario Canada >at spitfire@golden.net > >Bruce > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:55 PM >To: "Gary Horstkorta"; fot@autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Wanted: TR4 > >Gary, > >He clearly has good taste in friends & cars. > > I saw a very nice 'starter' TR4 at MOSPORT in June, but lost track of the information. > >I know of a starter Spitfire, if anyone is interested. > >Joe A > > > >>Hello: >> >> >> >>I have a friend who wants to purchase a solid axle TR4 for vintage racing. >>He is not an FOT member but will be nominated as soon as he finds a car, >>therefore, I am asking for him. He would prefer a car ready to race and >>one located in the Western U.S. as he is a resident of Northern California >>but will consider a suitable car if located in other parts of the country. >>You can contact me off-line at vintage.racer@comcast.net if you know of >>anything for sale. Thanks. >> >> >> >>Gary >> >> >> >>1962 TR4 >> >>1969 TR6 >>_______________________________________________ >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>http://www.fot-racing.com >> >>Fot mailing list >>Fot@autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 18:28:37 2008 From: Jay Creel To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] SCCA EP Triumph TR 4 For Sale FOT, My father and I have been racing spitfires for the last 5 years and it has come time to part with an old friend. My father began racing a TR-3 back in the late 60's and then at TR-4 through the late 80's at which time he began work on his second passion, wooden boats. When I started the restoration of my spitfire in 1999 we had considered bringing the ol' TR-4 back out for another run. As luck would have it, we located another spitfire and we have been running against each other ever since. With all of that said, we have decided we would like to see the TR-4 go to a home where the new owner can and will enjoy her for many years to come. So I reach out to the FOT to find out if anyone is interested in a solid TR-4 racecar that is just waiting to get back on the track. 1962 Triumph TR-4 SCCA prepared EP racecar Complete, solid car that needs a complete update Full Roll Cage prepared by D&M Engineering Complete log book history 3-link floating competition suspension plus- 3 stock motors, additional blocks, overdrive, and other spares NARRC Champion in 1979 IF anyone is interested please send me an email directly and I will pass along your inquiry to my father. Please provide a phone number as my father is computer challenged. Dad can provide you all of the details about the car. Thanks Jay R. Creel SCCA NER# 232663 Jaxon Motorsports Triumph Spitfire _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 18:56:20 2008 From: "WILLIAM TOBIN" To: "Kramer, Robert" , Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:57:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Hi, in answer to the first question; no and yes. Sam's been at the game for 30 or so years and knows what he's doing. He's currently running SCCA and is probably at the Runoffs. It was funny when one of his crewman was being interviewed and was asked if Sam was saving his car for the Feature race. The reply, "Sam never saves the car!" Very competitive and a decent guy. And his car is probably his SCCA car. Who cares? It was a great show. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: "Kramer, Robert" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? > Watching the video brought up a couple of questions. > > Are the 3 Catabwa Island TR6's all running the same equipment and is Sam that > good? > > Did both the Group 44 TR6 and TR8 blow engines in the same weekend? I think > that was the TR6 that went in smoking and left an oil slick on pit entry. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of N197TR4@cs.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:54 AM > To: hottr6@hotmail.com; fot@autox.team.net; andre@gt6.ca > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? > > I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder engine. Should > be bottled and sold. > > > > Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: > > > > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA > > > > Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear > > to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the > > following straight. > > > > Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see > > Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly > > after hitting the apex. > > > > It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by > > 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of > > drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? > > > > Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original > > format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not > > use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O > > I'll likely not see these cars together again. > > > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. > > > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!55 0 > > F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > >

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 16 19:29:21 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "WILLIAM TOBIN" , "Kramer, Robert" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:29:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? It is fair to say that I went by Sam's pit to see his car and talk with him. I expected him to be standoffish and not very friendly. Just the opposite. Just a great guy that even pulled the fender off his great racer to show me what he done. Just a nifty,fast guy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "WILLIAM TOBIN" To: "Kramer, Robert" ; Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? > Hi, in answer to the first question; no and yes. Sam's been at the game > for 30 or so years and knows what he's doing. He's currently running SCCA > and is probably at the Runoffs. > It was funny when one of his crewman was being interviewed and was asked > if Sam was saving his car for the Feature race. The reply, "Sam never > saves > the car!" Very competitive and a decent guy. And his car is probably his > SCCA car. Who cares? It was a great show. > Bill----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kramer, Robert" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? > > > > Watching the video brought up a couple of questions. > > > > Are the 3 Catabwa Island TR6's all running the same equipment and is > Sam > that > > good? > > > > Did both the Group 44 TR6 and TR8 blow engines in the same weekend? I > think > > that was the TR6 that went in smoking and left an oil slick on pit > entry. > > > > Bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf > > Of N197TR4@cs.com > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:54 AM > > To: hottr6@hotmail.com; fot@autox.team.net; andre@gt6.ca > > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? > > > > I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder engine. > Should > > be bottled and sold. > > > > > > > Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen: > > > > > > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA > > > > > > Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear > > > to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the > > > following straight. > > > > > > Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see > > > Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly > > > after hitting the apex. > > > > > > It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by > > > 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of > > > drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret? > > > > > > Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original > > > format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not > > > use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O > > > I'll likely not see these cars together again. > > > > > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!55 > 0 > > > F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > > > Fot mailing list > > > Fot@autox.team.net > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at > your > > destination. > > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 17 21:16:23 2008 From: Sam Halkias To: Kas Kastner , WILLIAM TOBIN Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:16:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen? Thanks Bill and Kas. After 36 years I've figured out a thing or two on the Six. Yes, it was my SCCA runoff car, and my other Two Catawba cars run nearly identical engine and transmission packages. My main car #88 (normally #83) is dry sumped and very tweeked out on the suspension, it's a hoot to drive! The #33 car that Jim drove used to belong to Kelly McBride from WA and prior to that Dave Pettigrew from NE. The #30 car is David Wingett's old car that I just picked up this year, I used it to run NASA this year. I still have two more race TR6's at home, and all of them hit the track every year. I remember starting out with Kas's competition manuals on my TR4 and TR6 back in ther 70's, so I guess I have Kas to blame for getting me hooked on Tr's. BTW, Kas, you made my weekend by stopping by at the Glen! I was honored to share my work with you. Jim, Jack and I had a ball at the Glen. Most fun we've had in years! Jack has Kas's original TR6 at home, and I'm puting it back to the Jim Ray/Dennis Wilson bodywork for next year. I'll also have a repro vintage car for Jim and I to play with. We plan on going to the Mitty next year and Mid Ohio Vintage weekend. We'll leave the SCCA cars home unless the Brits come across the pond again! I'll be happy to help anyone with anything I can. I do some engine work when I can for others as David Wingett will confess, and Mike Munson is trying to be "Little Sam". Be patient with me. I spend alot of time in the shop with 6 TR6's! Got to keep them "Ready to Race"! Right Kas? Sam > From: kaskas@cox.net> To: william.tobin3@verizon.net; RKramer@rdoequipment.com; fot@autox.team.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:29:08 -0700> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen?> > It is fair to say that I went by Sam's pit to see his car and talk with him. > I expected him to be standoffish and not very friendly. Just the opposite. > Just a great guy that even pulled the fender off his great racer to show me > what he done. Just a nifty,fast guy.> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WILLIAM TOBIN" > To: "Kramer, Robert" ; > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 5:57 PM> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen?> > > > Hi, in answer to the first question; no and yes. Sam's been at the game> > for 30 or so years and knows what he's doing. He's currently running SCCA> > and is probably at the Runoffs.> > It was funny when one of his crewman was being interviewed and was asked> > if Sam was saving his car for the Feature race. The reply, "Sam never > > saves> > the car!" Very competitive and a decent guy. And his car is probably his> > SCCA car. Who cares? It was a great show.> > Bill----- Original Message -----> > From: "Kramer, Robert" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 12:57 PM> > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen?> >> >> > > Watching the video brought up a couple of questions.> > >> > > Are the 3 Catabwa Island TR6's all running the same equipment and is > > Sam> > that> > > good?> > >> > > Did both the Group 44 TR6 and TR8 blow engines in the same weekend? I> > think> > > that was the TR6 that went in smoking and left an oil slick on pit> > entry.> > >> > > Bob> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On> > Behalf> > > Of N197TR4@cs.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:54 AM> > > To: hottr6@hotmail.com; fot@autox.team.net; andre@gt6.ca> > > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K short-shifting at the Glen?> > >> > > I dont know, but I never heard a sweeter sounding six cylinder engine.> > Should> > > be bottled and sold.> > >> > >> > > > Andre Rousseau posted the following link - Triumph Race @ The Glen:> > > >> > > > http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3801089803051563183&hl=en-CA> > > >> > > > Watching the faster TR6s navigate corner 12, they all appear> > > > to take it in third, shifting to fourth midway down the> > > > following straight.> > > >> > > > Watching the movie at approximately 3:15 and 4:59 mark we see> > > > Tony Garmey zipping along in the TR250K and changing up shortly> > > > after hitting the apex.> > > >> > > > It appears to me that either Tony was short-shifting by> > > > 500 rpm (???) or so, or he was running a very different set of> > > > drivetrain ratios. Another Kas secret?> > > >> > > > Andre, is there a way to obtain a copy of this video in the original> > > > format, from an ftp site? I'd love a copy, and I swear I will not> > > > use it for anything other than my own lustful desires. =8O> > > > I'll likely not see these cars together again.> > > >> > > > Shane Ingate in NM> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > _________________________________________________________________> > > > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live.> > > >> > >> > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!55> > 0> > > > F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008> > > > _______________________________________________> > > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > > >> > > > http://www.fot-racing.com> > > >> > > > Fot mailing list> > > > Fot@autox.team.net> > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >

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New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at> > your> > > destination.> > > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out> > > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)> > > Fot mailing list> > > Fot@autox.team.net> > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> > > _______________________________________________> > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > >> > > http://www.fot-racing.com> > >> > > Fot mailing list> > > Fot@autox.team.net> > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > http://www.fot-racing.com> >> > Fot mailing list> > Fot@autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> _________________________________________________________________ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns! 20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 11:12:53 2008 From: "Jack Brooks" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:12:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I know many of you have been scooping up bargain priced tow rigs lately. Unfortunately, since I am not in the market, I have not been paying attention to the posts. A good friend is looking for a new vehicle, so I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out there, what works well and what does not, and hopefully, what kind of deals have been cut. He is looking for the following: Towing up to 10,000 pounds Diesel required extended or crew cab four wheel drive, for negotiating site conditions and our mountain passes in the winter 3/4 ton Your experience with the vehicles you have purchased or driven lately would be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have found that dealers will cut $10k or more off sticker prices, those specifics, while they will vary by dealer and regions, would be appreciated also. Thanks in advance, Jack Seattle _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 11:44:01 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Jack Brooks" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:43:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help F350. I know there are lots of differing opinions. I'm from a GMC family, it's treason for me to buy a Ford. But I got recommendations from several of the most experienced truck experts around, including the transport guys at Rousch Engineering, and they all said F350. After a year of driving mine, including the All Aluminum Tour I'd say F350. I just came back from San Diego in it, wasn't hauling a trailer, but I got over 16 mpg. When I haul a trailer I get 14. On Oct 18, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Jack Brooks wrote: > I know many of you have been scooping up bargain priced tow rigs > lately. > Unfortunately, since I am not in the market, I have not been paying > attention to the posts. A good friend is looking for a new vehicle, > so I > figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out > there, what > works well and what does not, and hopefully, what kind of deals have > been > cut. He is looking for the following: > > Towing up to 10,000 pounds > Diesel required > extended or crew cab > four wheel drive, for negotiating site conditions and our mountain > passes in > the winter > 3/4 ton > > Your experience with the vehicles you have purchased or driven > lately would > be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have found that dealers will > cut $10k > or more off sticker prices, those specifics, while they will vary by > dealer > and regions, would be appreciated also. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jack > Seattle > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 11:58:19 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Bill Babcock" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:58:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help Afraid I have to agree. Even though Dad spent 34 years @ GM. We buy a new ford 350 chassis about every 18 months for the ambulance squad in a 6 vehicle fleet. They get about 100k miles on them and then we put a new chassis under them. Just indestructible for the most part, even given the abuse 100k miles of being an ambulance gets. Bob On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > F350. I know there are lots of differing opinions. I'm from a GMC > family, it's treason for me to buy a Ford. But I got recommendations > from several of the most experienced truck experts around, including > the transport guys at Rousch Engineering, and they all said F350. > After a year of driving mine, including the All Aluminum Tour I'd say > F350. I just came back from San Diego in it, wasn't hauling a trailer, > but I got over 16 mpg. When I haul a trailer I get 14. > > On Oct 18, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Jack Brooks wrote: > > > I know many of you have been scooping up bargain priced tow rigs > > lately. > > Unfortunately, since I am not in the market, I have not been paying > > attention to the posts. A good friend is looking for a new vehicle, > > so I > > figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out > > there, what > > works well and what does not, and hopefully, what kind of deals have > > been > > cut. He is looking for the following: > > > > Towing up to 10,000 pounds > > Diesel required > > extended or crew cab > > four wheel drive, for negotiating site conditions and our mountain > > passes in > > the winter > > 3/4 ton > > > > Your experience with the vehicles you have purchased or driven > > lately would > > be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have found that dealers will > > cut $10k > > or more off sticker prices, those specifics, while they will vary by > > dealer > > and regions, would be appreciated also. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jack > > Seattle > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 14:00:42 2008 From: Bobby Whitehead To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:00:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] tow vehicles Well..... being biased.... I've driven Ford Vans since I was a teenager. I'm not a millionaire nor a pauper. I personally LIKE the idea of camping out in my van when I get to the track. Currently I own a 2005 Ford Van E250, gas 5.4 liter gas engine. There is a V10 in Ford vans, plus the Power Strokes in diesel. I tow a Wells Cargo enclosed trailer, plus I have a boat/trailer rig that weighs over 5000 pounds... there are some vans 4x4 , but kinda scarce.... yeah... I'm probably one of the only ones doing it hippie style, but it works for me. Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR GT6 EP Group 2 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 14:35:29 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Bobby Whitehead Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:35:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles I'm pretty well off now, but I don't have any trouble remembering when I LIVED in a Econoline van. I bought it for $150 and built an interior for it using mostly material from japanese motorcycle crates. Amazing how hard that wood was--I had to predrill every hole, no way to hand- drive a nail into it. Coleman stove, fold up bed, some shelves and a curtain. Lived in it over the winter in Anderson, CA (one of the coldest and hottest places on the planet) and then another six months in Long Beach, and a few other spells when child support ate up more money than I made wrenching. It was painted a strange shade of blue- green, with a brush. We called it the Turquoise Turkey. It served me well carrying my race bikes--Motocross all over, Ascot for the 1/2 mile and TT, Riverside GP, Elsinore, and a lot of desert races. Pull out the bikes, fold down the bed, and I was home. Worked pretty well with the ladies as long as they weren't looking for stability and a guy with a suit. Now THAT'S hippy style. Especially since the typical tip for a motorcycle mechanic in California at the time was a lid of grass. That sweet incense was pretty much permanently embedded. Sold it for $150. Be kind of fun to have it back. On Oct 18, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Well..... being biased.... I've driven Ford Vans since I was a > teenager. I'm not a millionaire nor a pauper. I personally LIKE the > idea of camping out in my van when I get to the track. > Currently I own a 2005 Ford Van E250, gas 5.4 liter gas engine. > There is a V10 in Ford vans, plus the Power Strokes in diesel. I tow > a Wells Cargo enclosed trailer, plus I have a boat/trailer rig that > weighs over 5000 pounds... there are some vans 4x4 , but kinda > scarce.... yeah... I'm probably one of the only ones doing it > hippie style, but it works for me. > > > Bobby Whitehead > #53 CVAR GT6 EP Group 2 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 15:51:29 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "robert bownes" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:50:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles Just a little jog. Motorcycle mechanic/racer-->nuclear reactor operator-->PR Flack for a nuke plant-->founder of a software company-- >direct marketing hack-->founder/CEO of B&J. I had a vision for my career path and just followed it. Actually, I wanted to be a physicist but couldn't hack the math. Being the CEO of an ad agency requires a lot less capability than wrenching on motorcycles, and is generally less fulfilling. Better pay though. On Oct 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, robert bownes wrote: > > Boy, did you make a career left turn someplace along the way! > > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I'm pretty well off now, but I don't have any trouble remembering when > I LIVED in a Econoline van. I bought it for $150 and built an interior > for it using mostly material from japanese motorcycle crates. Amazing > how hard that wood was--I had to predrill every hole, no way to hand- > drive a nail into it. Coleman stove, fold up bed, some shelves and a > curtain. Lived in it over the winter in Anderson, CA (one of the > coldest and hottest places on the planet) and then another six months > in Long Beach, and a few other spells when child support ate up more > money than I made wrenching. It was painted a strange shade of blue- > green, with a brush. We called it the Turquoise Turkey. It served me > well carrying my race bikes--Motocross all over, Ascot for the 1/2 > mile and TT, Riverside GP, Elsinore, and a lot of desert races. Pull > out the bikes, fold down the bed, and I was home. Worked pretty well > with the ladies as long as they weren't looking for stability and a > guy with a suit. > > Now THAT'S hippy style. Especially since the typical tip for a > motorcycle mechanic in California at the time was a lid of grass. That > sweet incense was pretty much permanently embedded. Sold it for $150. > > Be kind of fun to have it back. > > On Oct 18, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > > > Well..... being biased.... I've driven Ford Vans since I was a > > teenager. I'm not a millionaire nor a pauper. I personally LIKE the > > idea of camping out in my van when I get to the track. > > Currently I own a 2005 Ford Van E250, gas 5.4 liter gas engine. > > There is a V10 in Ford vans, plus the Power Strokes in diesel. I tow > > a Wells Cargo enclosed trailer, plus I have a boat/trailer rig that > > weighs over 5000 pounds... there are some vans 4x4 , but kinda > > scarce.... yeah... I'm probably one of the only ones doing it > > hippie style, but it works for me. > > > > > > Bobby Whitehead Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 16:17:31 2008 From: "michael a kowalski" To: "Bill Babcock" , "Bobby Whitehead" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:17:27 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles how about towing my FV with my '69 VW camper all over the S. Cal race circuit. mike kowalski, FP spit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Bobby Whitehead" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles > I'm pretty well off now, but I don't have any trouble remembering when > I LIVED in a Econoline van. I bought it for $150 and built an interior > for it using mostly material from japanese motorcycle crates. Amazing > how hard that wood was--I had to predrill every hole, no way to hand- > drive a nail into it. Coleman stove, fold up bed, some shelves and a > curtain. Lived in it over the winter in Anderson, CA (one of the > coldest and hottest places on the planet) and then another six months > in Long Beach, and a few other spells when child support ate up more > money than I made wrenching. It was painted a strange shade of blue- > green, with a brush. We called it the Turquoise Turkey. It served me > well carrying my race bikes--Motocross all over, Ascot for the 1/2 > mile and TT, Riverside GP, Elsinore, and a lot of desert races. Pull > out the bikes, fold down the bed, and I was home. Worked pretty well > with the ladies as long as they weren't looking for stability and a > guy with a suit. > > Now THAT'S hippy style. Especially since the typical tip for a > motorcycle mechanic in California at the time was a lid of grass. That > sweet incense was pretty much permanently embedded. Sold it for $150. > > Be kind of fun to have it back. > > On Oct 18, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > >> Well..... being biased.... I've driven Ford Vans since I was a >> teenager. I'm not a millionaire nor a pauper. I personally LIKE the >> idea of camping out in my van when I get to the track. >> Currently I own a 2005 Ford Van E250, gas 5.4 liter gas engine. >> There is a V10 in Ford vans, plus the Power Strokes in diesel. I tow >> a Wells Cargo enclosed trailer, plus I have a boat/trailer rig that >> weighs over 5000 pounds... there are some vans 4x4 , but kinda >> scarce.... yeah... I'm probably one of the only ones doing it >> hippie style, but it works for me. >> >> >> Bobby Whitehead >> #53 CVAR GT6 EP Group 2 >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 17:02:09 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "michael a kowalski" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:02:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles That sounds very familiar. Was marijuana involved? Let me guess... On Oct 18, 2008, at 3:17 PM, michael a kowalski wrote: > how about towing my FV with my '69 VW camper all over the S. Cal > race circuit. > > mike kowalski, > FP spit > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "Bobby Whitehead" > Cc: ; > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles > > >> I'm pretty well off now, but I don't have any trouble remembering >> when >> I LIVED in a Econoline van. I bought it for $150 and built an >> interior >> for it using mostly material from japanese motorcycle crates. Amazing >> how hard that wood was--I had to predrill every hole, no way to hand- >> drive a nail into it. Coleman stove, fold up bed, some shelves and a >> curtain. Lived in it over the winter in Anderson, CA (one of the >> coldest and hottest places on the planet) and then another six months >> in Long Beach, and a few other spells when child support ate up more >> money than I made wrenching. It was painted a strange shade of blue- >> green, with a brush. We called it the Turquoise Turkey. It served me >> well carrying my race bikes--Motocross all over, Ascot for the 1/2 >> mile and TT, Riverside GP, Elsinore, and a lot of desert races. Pull >> out the bikes, fold down the bed, and I was home. Worked pretty well >> with the ladies as long as they weren't looking for stability and a >> guy with a suit. >> >> Now THAT'S hippy style. Especially since the typical tip for a >> motorcycle mechanic in California at the time was a lid of grass. >> That >> sweet incense was pretty much permanently embedded. Sold it for $150. >> >> Be kind of fun to have it back. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 18:02:17 2008 From: "John Macartney" To: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:00:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles In the UK and Europe, we're constrained by law as to the mix of vehicle and trailer. Massive engines - whether petrol or diesel are not the governing factors and you won't find engines of the size you guys happily operate in the US and Canada. Simply, a 5+ litre V8 or V10 is a joke when it comes to running it at our fuel prices. Personally, I prefer diesels for their really low down rpm high torque sluggability. The law here governing the choice of tow vehicle is that the all up weight of the trailer should be absolutely no more than 90% of the tow vehicle kerbside weight - i.e. fully laden with fuel and oil but no occupants. The trailer has to be fitted with towball operated over-run brakes on all its wheels, the hitch has to have an anti-snake device built into it and an emergency breakaway brake coupling. My 2.9 litre turbo-diesel people carrier handles a 4000lbs trailer home with ease and still returns 33mpg when hooked up. We're also restricted to a maximum speed of 60mph on motorways and 50mph on all other roads. So my thoughts would be to work out the likely weight of the fully loaded trailer and then find a tow vehicle that's at least 10% but preferably 20% heavier - and with a nice long-life thumper of a diesel engine driving it! And of course, no autobox. Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 19:01:15 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: "Jack Brooks" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 20:00:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I have a 99 Dodge 3500 Quad Cab with a Cummins turbo diesel. I have owned it for 5 years and I use it primarily for towing. It has 118000 and I have had very few problems or repairs. I love the Cummins engine. Having said all that I would still buy a Ford F350. I bought the Dodge used and got a great price on it so personal preference aside I went for price. On Oct 18, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > I know many of you have been scooping up bargain priced tow rigs > lately. > Unfortunately, since I am not in the market, I have not been paying > attention to the posts. A good friend is looking for a new vehicle, > so I > figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out > there, what > works well and what does not, and hopefully, what kind of deals have > been > cut. He is looking for the following: > > Towing up to 10,000 pounds > Diesel required > extended or crew cab > four wheel drive, for negotiating site conditions and our mountain > passes in > the winter > 3/4 ton > > Your experience with the vehicles you have purchased or driven > lately would > be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have found that dealers will > cut $10k > or more off sticker prices, those specifics, while they will vary by > dealer > and regions, would be appreciated also. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jack > Seattle > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 21:19:43 2008 From: "Mike Munson" To: "'Jack Brooks'" , "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:18:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help GM has Employee pricing available to everyone right now. I (as a GM employee) usually get 15 to 18% off of sticker when I buy cars from the dealer. They also have regional incentives also. http://www.gm.com/vehicles/currentoffers/ -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:13 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I know many of you have been scooping up bargain priced tow rigs lately. Unfortunately, since I am not in the market, I have not been paying attention to the posts. A good friend is looking for a new vehicle, so I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out there, what works well and what does not, and hopefully, what kind of deals have been cut. He is looking for the following: Towing up to 10,000 pounds Diesel required extended or crew cab four wheel drive, for negotiating site conditions and our mountain passes in the winter 3/4 ton Your experience with the vehicles you have purchased or driven lately would be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have found that dealers will cut $10k or more off sticker prices, those specifics, while they will vary by dealer and regions, would be appreciated also. Thanks in advance, Jack Seattle Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1715 - Release Date: 10/8/2008 7:19 PM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 10:03:14 2008 From: "michael a kowalski" To: "Bill Babcock" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 10:03:03 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles absolutely never and not! just racing the Vee. mk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "michael a kowalski" Cc: "Bobby Whitehead" ; ; Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles > That sounds very familiar. Was marijuana involved? Let me guess... > > On Oct 18, 2008, at 3:17 PM, michael a kowalski wrote: > >> how about towing my FV with my '69 VW camper all over the S. Cal race >> circuit. >> >> mike kowalski, >> FP spit >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" >> To: "Bobby Whitehead" >> Cc: ; >> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles >> >> >>> I'm pretty well off now, but I don't have any trouble remembering when >>> I LIVED in a Econoline van. I bought it for $150 and built an interior >>> for it using mostly material from japanese motorcycle crates. Amazing >>> how hard that wood was--I had to predrill every hole, no way to hand- >>> drive a nail into it. Coleman stove, fold up bed, some shelves and a >>> curtain. Lived in it over the winter in Anderson, CA (one of the >>> coldest and hottest places on the planet) and then another six months >>> in Long Beach, and a few other spells when child support ate up more >>> money than I made wrenching. It was painted a strange shade of blue- >>> green, with a brush. We called it the Turquoise Turkey. It served me >>> well carrying my race bikes--Motocross all over, Ascot for the 1/2 >>> mile and TT, Riverside GP, Elsinore, and a lot of desert races. Pull >>> out the bikes, fold down the bed, and I was home. Worked pretty well >>> with the ladies as long as they weren't looking for stability and a >>> guy with a suit. >>> >>> Now THAT'S hippy style. Especially since the typical tip for a >>> motorcycle mechanic in California at the time was a lid of grass. That >>> sweet incense was pretty much permanently embedded. Sold it for $150. >>> >>> Be kind of fun to have it back. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 10:59:22 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "michael a kowalski" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:58:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles I just assume anyone that drove a '69 VW camper had to have something to do in the long interlude between 45MPH and 55MPH. On Oct 19, 2008, at 9:03 AM, michael a kowalski wrote: > absolutely never and not! just racing the Vee. > > mk > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "michael a kowalski" > Cc: "Bobby Whitehead" ; >; > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles > > >> That sounds very familiar. Was marijuana involved? Let me guess... >> >> On Oct 18, 2008, at 3:17 PM, michael a kowalski wrote: >> >>> how about towing my FV with my '69 VW camper all over the S. Cal >>> race circuit. >>> >>> mike kowalski, >>> FP spit >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 11:14:59 2008 From: Glenn Franco To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:14:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Canton Accusump Recommendation Seeking the wisdom of the group Any recommendations as to the size of accusump I should be running in a 1.3L Spitfire? Both the 2 and 3 quart versions are available. I have a large journal 1.3L in the car now but I plan on building a small journal engine in the future. Thanks in advance Glenn Franco 72 Spit race car in progress _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 12:37:04 2008 From: Bobby Whitehead To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:36:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] accusump Any reason NOT to use the 3 quart sump? Unless there was an issue with size, I would GUESS bigger is better.... I usually have to block my oil cooler if the track temp is below 70 degrees. I'm usually running around 175- 185 degree oil and water temp.... Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ CVAR -----> 3 quart accusump _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 14:35:53 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Bobby Whitehead" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:35:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] accusump Well, experience has taught me that the difference between the two is about a quart of oil on the track when the #3 connecting rod bolts decide to exit through the bottom of the oil pan in my 1147. On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Any reason NOT to use the 3 quart sump? > > Unless there was an issue with size, I would GUESS bigger is better.... > > I usually have to block my oil cooler if the track temp is below 70 > degrees. I'm usually running around 175- 185 degree oil and water temp.... > > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ CVAR -----> 3 quart accusump > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 14:59:44 2008 From: Bobby Whitehead To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:59:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] determining differential ratios I've been told I have a 4:11 differential in my possession. How can I determine which one it is? Do I count teeth on the pinion gear or what? Not the sharpest pencil in the stack.... Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR Triumph GT6 EP Group2 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 15:12:57 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: igofaster@charter.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:12:45 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios TR3/4s have 10 tooth pinions. It makes it easy. 41 teeth = 4.1:1 Joe > I've been told I have a 4:11 differential in my possession. How can I > determine which one it is? Do I count teeth on the pinion gear or what? > > Not the sharpest pencil in the stack.... > > Bobby Whitehead > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6 EP Group2 > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 15:24:10 2008 From: Shane Ingate To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:24:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles I bought myself a new (2008) Silverado, Duramax/Allison 3/4 ton 4x4, crew cab. I bought the base model and spent the money that some folk put into leather/dvd/gps/gold-plated cup holders into the heavy-duty tow kit, transmission cooler, sump/transmission bash plates, heavy suspension/etc. So it's a working beast. I decided on the Cheby (though I am a Ford man) because the Cheby gets good diesel mileage. I regularly report 18 mpg in the NM mountains even when towing 4000 lbs. Towing more weight (e.g. Rags) does hit the mileage, and I have seen drop as low as 14 mpg here in the mountains. I figure it would be better at lower altitudes. I measure my diesel mileage between tank fill-ups. The Cheby has some weird pollution gear on it that makes it smell like propane and it NEVER smokes. I have heard that getting rid of this "catalytic converter" improves diesel mileage, but I'll wait until the warrant runs out. I had heard that the Ford Powerstroke does not hold a candle to the Duramax in terms of power. There are very few cars I cannot smoke up to 80 mph from the traffic lights. This thing squeezes you into the seat. I figure that Rags travels faster when being towed! The bad is that I am not keen on the Allison 6-speed auto. I guess I am not used to driving a right-foot drive only truck. I did test-drive the Dodge/Cummins and liked the donk, but the seats were the worst I have ever sat in. My back complained within minutes. Also, the Cummins was slooooow by comparison. Finally, the fit, finish and materials used on the Cheby is streets ahead of the Ford and Dodge which are cheap at best. The Cheby is more like a $30K+ Japanese car in quality. That's my $0.02. My truck hauls Rags, bikes, trash, broken concrete, building supplies, railway ties, and our 6 Rottweilers with ease. But I only use it when I need to given the cost of diesel. My '91 Honda Civic handles commuting and shopping-basket duties. YMMV. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 15:29:42 2008 From: Shane Ingate To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:29:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles II I should mention one more thing about the Cheby. The 2500 does not come with the rack and pinion steering of the 1500. The 2500 steering is not precise and wanders a little. You get used to it, but after the razor-sharp steering of Rags and the accurate feel of my Honda (set up for aurto-x), the truck is not as much fun. Nevertheless, Pam and I will happily put 600 mile days in the truck. It is as comfortable and quiet as any decent car. I am impressed. Oh, and finally, the "Onstar" hands-free cell phone transmits at around 15 watts, so I have coverage anywhere in the US. Sure does help living in the mountains where cell-phone coverage is non-existent at best. Shane _________________________________________________________________ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_ 102008 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 16:09:13 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Friends of Triumph Triumph Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 18:08:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios Or spin the input and see how many turns it takes to get the out puts to turn one rev. Speaking of diffs I am hunting for a 389. Love the 411 but would like some lower revs on the hwy A Sent from my iPod Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca On 19-Oct-08, at 17:12, N197TR4@cs.com wrote: > TR3/4s have 10 tooth pinions. It makes it easy. > > 41 teeth = 4.1:1 > > Joe > >> I've been told I have a 4:11 differential in my possession. How >> can I >> determine which one it is? Do I count teeth on the pinion gear or >> what? >> >> Not the sharpest pencil in the stack.... >> >> Bobby Whitehead >> #53 CVAR Triumph GT6 EP Group2 >> _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 16:45:19 2008 From: "Henry Frye" To: "Jack Brooks" , "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 18:45:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help On any given weekend, go to the track and look at what other racers are towing with. In my part of the world, the overwhelming majority of tow vehicles are Fords, and I would guess Dodge are a distant second. Not many GM's at all. My F350 is an awesome tow vehicle... -----Original Message----- From: Jack Brooks Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out there, what _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 17:03:20 2008 From: "Don Marshall" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:03:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I'm very happy with my '05 Chevy 3/4 ton crew cab diesel. It pulls my 34' gooseneck trailer without complaint and is decent to drive around town, although it doesn't turn very tightly and isn't any fun to park in crowded parking lots. Also, it doesn't have as many cup holders as the Ford but that may not matter to some folks. Don -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Henry Frye Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:45 PM To: Jack Brooks; 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help On any given weekend, go to the track and look at what other racers are towing with. In my part of the world, the overwhelming majority of tow vehicles are Fords, and I would guess Dodge are a distant second. Not many GM's at all. My F350 is an awesome tow vehicle... -----Original Message----- From: Jack Brooks Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out there, what Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 17:04:47 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Friends of Triumph Triumph Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:04:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! Where is the landrover vote? Hehe A Sent from my iPod Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: > On any given weekend, go to the track and look at what other racers > are towing > with. In my part of the world, the overwhelming majority of tow > vehicles are > Fords, and I would guess Dodge are a distant second. Not many GM's > at all. > > My F350 is an awesome tow vehicle... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Brooks > Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help > > I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out > there, what > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 17:30:26 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Henry Frye" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:30:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I will say that despite my F350 comments a while back, my tow vehicle is GM (I have to own at least *one* GM car or be disowned! :) I've towed with a 2002 and a 2006 1500 Avalanche. The 02 was better than the 06 but both are great with my 24' enclosed Haulmark. But the 1500 brakes leave a bit to be desired. And they only come in auto/gas. They are great vehicles to camp in though. On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Henry Frye wrote: > On any given weekend, go to the track and look at what other racers are > towing > with. In my part of the world, the overwhelming majority of tow vehicles > are > Fords, and I would guess Dodge are a distant second. Not many GM's at all. > > My F350 is an awesome tow vehicle... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Brooks > Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help > > I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out there, > what > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 17:42:18 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'robert bownes'" , "'Henry Frye'" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:42:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I tow an open double-deck trailer (hauling two Spits) behind a 2002 Avalanche and except for the fuel mileage, I couldn't be happier. It pulls just fine and has lots of creature comforts. If I could get just 15 MPG it would be just perfect. It runs on gasoline, not diesel. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of robert bownes Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:30 PM To: Henry Frye Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I will say that despite my F350 comments a while back, my tow vehicle is GM (I have to own at least *one* GM car or be disowned! :) I've towed with a 2002 and a 2006 1500 Avalanche. The 02 was better than the 06 but both are great with my 24' enclosed Haulmark. But the 1500 brakes leave a bit to be desired. And they only come in auto/gas. They are great vehicles to camp in though. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 17:46:09 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: Andre Rousseau Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 18:46:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not use the over drive so maybe 45mph On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! > > Where is the landrover vote? > > Hehe > > A > > Sent from my iPod > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca > On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: > >> On any given weekend, go to the track and look at what other racers >> are towing >> with. In my part of the world, the overwhelming majority of tow >> vehicles are >> Fords, and I would guess Dodge are a distant second. Not many GM's >> at all. >> >> My F350 is an awesome tow vehicle... >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jack Brooks >> Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help >> >> I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out >> there, what >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 17:50:58 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Bobby Whitehead Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:50:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] accusump They're kind of unwieldy and the two quart is plenty. They used to offer a 1 Qt, and I'd kind of like one of those. I also like plumbing them directly to the oil gallery where they'll do the most good. A lot fewer hoses and stuff to go wrong. It's a good idea to get you oil temp above 220 to drive out the water and other contaminants. If you don't need the oil cooler why have it? On Oct 19, 2008, at 11:36 AM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Any reason NOT to use the 3 quart sump? > > Unless there was an issue with size, I would GUESS bigger is > better.... > > I usually have to block my oil cooler if the track temp is below 70 > degrees. I'm usually running around 175- 185 degree oil and water > temp.... > > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ CVAR -----> 3 quart accusump > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 17:56:56 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Bobby Whitehead Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:56:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios You can certainly do it by counting teeth--it's the number of teeth in the ring gear divided by the number on the pinion. You can count them in place by marking the driveshaft and the, tire then have someone rotate the tire ten revolutions while you count the driveshaft revolutions. 41 driveshaft revolutions equals 4.11, 37 = 3.7, etc. You do it for ten revolutions because it's hard to see the difference between 3.7 revolutions and 3.9. You can do it for fewer tire revs but ten makes the math easy. On Oct 19, 2008, at 1:59 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > I've been told I have a 4:11 differential in my possession. How can > I determine which one it is? Do I count teeth on the pinion gear or > what? > > Not the sharpest pencil in the stack.... > > Bobby Whitehead > #53 CVAR Triumph GT6 EP Group2 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 18:07:37 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Jerry Barr Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:07:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares with several SUVs On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just > about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not use > the over drive so maybe 45mph > On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > >> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >> >> Where is the landrover vote? >> >> Hehe >> >> A >> >> Sent from my iPod >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 18:14:58 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Bill Babcock Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:14:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help A friend of mind, sold his LR a few years ago and coin'd this phrase. "The sucking sound from my wallet finally stopped." A. On 19-Oct-08, at 8:07 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame > rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares with > several SUVs > On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > >> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just >> about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not >> use the over drive so maybe 45mph >> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >> >>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>> >>> Where is the landrover vote? >>> >>> Hehe >>> >>> A >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: >>> -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 18:22:30 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Andre Rousseau Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:22:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help Similar to a boat--a LR is a hole in the traffic into which one pours money. Except the really old ones, which are pretty darned cool. On Oct 19, 2008, at 5:14 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > A friend of mind, sold his LR a few years ago and coin'd this phrase. > > "The sucking sound from my wallet finally stopped." > > A. > > On 19-Oct-08, at 8:07 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame >> rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares >> with several SUVs >> On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: >> >>> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just >>> about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not >>> use the over drive so maybe 45mph >>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >>> >>>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>>> >>>> Where is the landrover vote? >>>> >>>> Hehe >>>> >>>> A >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: >>>> > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 18:39:00 2008 From: Ted Schumacher To: Bill Babcock Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:38:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios If the differential is an "open" diff - ie not welded or limited slip here is the quick way to determine ratio. With rear wheels off the ground, keep one wheel from turning (put your foot against it). Put a mark on the driveshaft flange and on the other wheel. Turn the driveshaft, counting the turns, until you have 1 turn of the free wheel. Multiply the driveshaft turns by 2 and you have your ratio. Example, just over 2 turns of the driveshaft is 4.1; 1 3/4 turns is a 3.45; just under 2 turns is 3.89, just over 1 1/2 turns is 3.27, etc. Works every time - no counting, no disassembly. Ted Bill Babcock wrote: > You can certainly do it by counting teeth--it's the number of teeth in > the ring gear divided by the number on the pinion. You can count them > in place by marking the driveshaft and the, tire then have someone > rotate the tire ten revolutions while you count the driveshaft > revolutions. 41 driveshaft revolutions equals 4.11, 37 = 3.7, etc. You > do it for ten revolutions because it's hard to see the difference > between 3.7 revolutions and 3.9. You can do it for fewer tire revs but > ten makes the math easy. > > On Oct 19, 2008, at 1:59 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > > >> I've been told I have a 4:11 differential in my possession. How can >> I determine which one it is? Do I count teeth on the pinion gear or >> what? >> >> Not the sharpest pencil in the stack.... >> >> Bobby Whitehead >> #53 CVAR Triumph GT6 EP Group2 >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: 10/19/2008 6:02 PM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 18:49:37 2008 From: "Charly Mitchel" To: "Bill Babcock" , "Jerry Barr" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:49:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help Sorry to disillusion you all, but I've been towing with my 96 LR Disco until 2 years ago when I bought 04 LR Disco II with still no problems on either if them.. And I get about 14 MPG when towing at about 70 MPH. Sorry I can't add anything bad to this thread about LR's. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Jerry Barr" Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help > There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame rails > when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares with several > SUVs > On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > >> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just about as >> slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not use the over >> drive so maybe 45mph >> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >> >>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>> >>> Where is the landrover vote? >>> >>> Hehe >>> >>> A >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 18:57:46 2008 From: Herald948@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:57:34 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I used to haul all sort of stuff around on my ugly old single-axle trailer pulled by a '91 Explorer XL with towing package and manual gearbox. A consistent 19 mpg towing (A/C on or off), and a consistent 10-21 mpg NOT towing. Only bad tow I ever had was bringing back my Standard Pennant from WV to NY. Realized on the way down that I was running on only five cylinders. Realized half-way back (central PA) that I'd lost the rear brakes on the Explorer due to a rusted steel hydraulic line. Neither problem was easily fixable en route (try to find a mechanic in MECHANICSBURG, PA, on a Saturday afternoon!), but neither stopped me from getting home safely. Not a bad hauler, really. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 19:22:30 2008 From: Fred & Mary Hodgson To: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:22:26 -0600 Subject: [Fot] 1296 block needed Amici- Does anyone have a 1296 small crank block that they're willing to part with. I have one with a severly trashed thrust washer recess that I need to replace. Someone tried to "fix" it with a buzz box. I think it would look better if they'd used a jackhammer! Contact me off list. Fred Hodgson _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 19:35:42 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: Bill Babcock Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:35:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I really like my old Land Rover. It has been lots of fun to drive and I have taken it out on the Pipe Line in northern Wisconsin for some off road fun. The Pipe Line is just that a natural gas right of way and a long huge mud bog, lots of fun and a winch is needed for some of the worst parts. On Oct 19, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Similar to a boat--a LR is a hole in the traffic into which one > pours money. Except the really old ones, which are pretty darned cool. > > On Oct 19, 2008, at 5:14 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > >> A friend of mind, sold his LR a few years ago and coin'd this phrase. >> >> "The sucking sound from my wallet finally stopped." >> >> A. >> >> On 19-Oct-08, at 8:07 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> >>> There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame >>> rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares >>> with several SUVs >>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: >>> >>>> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just >>>> about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not >>>> use the over drive so maybe 45mph >>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >>>> >>>>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>>>> >>>>> Where is the landrover vote? >>>>> >>>>> Hehe >>>>> >>>>> A >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>>>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>>>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: >>>>> >> >> -- >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >> Ottawa, ON, Canada >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 19:50:19 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Charly Mitchel" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 18:50:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] [SPAM] Re: Tow vehicle help Well, other than the sobriquet "Disco". On Oct 19, 2008, at 5:49 PM, Charly Mitchel wrote: > Sorry to disillusion you all, but I've been towing with my 96 LR > Disco until 2 years ago when I bought 04 LR Disco II with still no > problems on either if them.. And I get about 14 MPG when towing at > about 70 MPH. > Sorry I can't add anything bad to this thread about LR's. > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "Jerry Barr" > Cc: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help > > >> There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame >> rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares >> with several SUVs >> On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: >> >>> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just >>> about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not >>> use the over drive so maybe 45mph >>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >>> >>>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>>> >>>> Where is the landrover vote? >>>> >>>> Hehe >>>> >>>> A >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 20:24:42 2008 From: Bobby Whitehead To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:24:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] determining differential ratios Forgot to mention... I have several differentials laying around. I don't have them in the car. I have known and determined I have a 3:89 locked in the GT6. If I indeed DO have a 4:11 I need to understand how to figure it out without being in the car. Thanks guys.... Bobby Whitehead _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 20:27:25 2008 From: "Scott Janzen" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:29:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Tees, Ok -folks, one last time! for those of you that did not get these at the Glen, Ted Schumacher is ready to do one more run of tee shirts, embroidered denim shirts and baseball caps. I have orders from some of you - see your names down below. The website with photos of all the garb is at the link below. If you want anything email me before Friday. Due to an ordering screw-up, we already have the following - (2) XL and (4) XXL blue denim embroidered shirts. Tees are $15, $1 extra for each size above XL, Denim shirts are $30, caps are $16. Part of the payment goes to a donation to Motorsports Ministries in Jack Drews' name - nice way to remember Jack, whose name and dates are printed on one of the tee shirt sleeves. Please call Ted with your payment info. I also need shipping info - that goes for those of you listed below as well. Thanks! http://www.freewebs.com:80/sjanzen/index.htm John Reed - Tees 1 M, 2L Rob Deanes - Denim L Tony Drews - 3 XXL Phil Hyer - Tees 1 M, 1 L Bob Davis - Tees 2 XL, 1 khaki cap Tim Williams - Tee 1 L Andre Russo - Denim size? Tom Kreger - tee 3 XL Gary Fusqua - 1 L Denim, 1 L Khaki _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 05:11:58 2008 From: "Craig" To: "Bill Babcock" , "michael a kowalski" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 07:16:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles Yes Bill.....BUT we powered them with corvair's Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "michael a kowalski" Cc: ; ; "Bobby Whitehead" Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles >I just assume anyone that drove a '69 VW camper had to have something to >do in the long interlude between 45MPH and 55MPH. > > > On Oct 19, 2008, at 9:03 AM, michael a kowalski wrote: > >> absolutely never and not! just racing the Vee. >> >> mk >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" >> To: "michael a kowalski" >> Cc: "Bobby Whitehead" ; >> > >; >> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] tow vehicles >> >> >>> That sounds very familiar. Was marijuana involved? Let me guess... >>> >>> On Oct 18, 2008, at 3:17 PM, michael a kowalski wrote: >>> >>>> how about towing my FV with my '69 VW camper all over the S. Cal race >>>> circuit. >>>> >>>> mike kowalski, >>>> FP spit >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 05:24:16 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: jerrybarr@charter.net, Billb@bnj.com Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 07:23:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover The only problem with a Land Rover, towing or not, is that you can't be in a big hurry to get anywhere, and it sometimes helps if you have a spare axle shaft on board... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Barr To: Bill Babcock Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:35 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I really like my old Land Rover. It has been lots of fun to drive and I have taken it out on the Pipe Line in northern Wisconsin for some off road fun. The Pipe Line is just that a natural gas right of way and a long huge mud bog, lots of fun and a winch is needed for some of the worst parts. On Oct 19, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Similar to a boat--a LR is a hole in the traffic into which one > pours money. Except the really old ones, which are pretty darned cool. > > On Oct 19, 2008, at 5:14 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > >> A friend of mind, sold his LR a few years ago and coin'd this phrase. >> >> "The sucking sound from my wallet finally stopped." >> >> A. >> >> On 19-Oct-08, at 8:07 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> >>> There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame >>> rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares >>> with several SUVs >>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: >>> >>>> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just >>>> about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not >>>> use the over drive so maybe 45mph >>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >>>> >>>>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>>>> >>>>> Where is the landrover vote? >>>>> >>>>> Hehe >>>>> >>>>> A >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>>>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>>>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: >>>>> >> >> -- >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >> Ottawa, ON, Canada >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 06:06:41 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: fubog1@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 07:06:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover The axle shaft is the shear pin in the drive line and when they break they are easy to change. Normally the axle breaks at the wheel end and are easy to replace in the field...... As long as you have that spare with you. On Oct 20, 2008, at 6:23 AM, fubog1@aol.com wrote: > The only problem with a Land Rover, towing or not, is that you can't > be in a big hurry to get anywhere, and it sometimes helps if you > have a spare axle shaft on board... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Barr > To: Bill Babcock > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:35 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help > > I really like my old Land Rover. It has been lots of fun to drive and > I have taken it out on the Pipe Line in northern Wisconsin for some > off road fun. The Pipe Line is just that a natural gas right of way > and a long huge mud bog, lots of fun and a winch is needed for some of > the worst parts. > On Oct 19, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Similar to a boat--a LR is a hole in the traffic into which one >> pours money. Except the really old ones, which are pretty darned >> cool. >> >> On Oct 19, 2008, at 5:14 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >> >>> A friend of mind, sold his LR a few years ago and coin'd this >>> phrase. >>> >>> "The sucking sound from my wallet finally stopped." >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On 19-Oct-08, at 8:07 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >>> >>>> There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame >>>> rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares >>>> with several SUVs >>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: >>>> >>>>> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just >>>>> about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not >>>>> use the over drive so maybe 45mph >>>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>>>>> >>>>>> Where is the landrover vote? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hehe >>>>>> >>>>>> A >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>>>>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>>>>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >>> Ottawa, ON, Canada >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 06:35:42 2008 From: SpiwakD@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:35:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] scattershields Friends My clutch blew apart at Watkins Glen last weekend, throwing a pea-sized piece of steel through the trans case at ankle height on what is usually the driver's side of the car(my car is RHD). I had just installed a scattershield made from an old police vest and there was no harm done. Steel shields are fine, but heavy. If you able to locate a surplus military flak vest or expired police vest, you can easily make a good shield. Police vests have expiration dates and are sold cheaply after they expire. They are still effective for our use. The material is ballistic cloth made of Kevlar. It is soft and easily cut with a razor knife. 1/2" thickness is all you need. The material must be completely wrapped in plastic. It must be protected from oil and other contaminents or it will break down. Hold the pieces together with duct tape until you get a good fit. I wrapped mine in plastic and then glued it to the tunnel with contact cement. I then covered the whole thing with vinyl and sprayed it black to match the tunnel. When finished, it is barely visible. Weight 2 lbs. Dave **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 06:35:52 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: jerrybarr@charter.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:35:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover A good friend of mine tells the story of when he was in the British Army, they would go out on maneuvers with 100 Land Rovers... and one of them would be full of spare axle shafts for them... Glen with 3 broken axles in 29 years -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Barr To: fubog1@aol.com Cc: Billb@bnj.com; FOt@autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 8:06 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover The axle shaft is the shear pin in the drive line and when they break they are easy to change. Normally the axle breaks at the wheel end and are easy to replace in the field...... As long as you have that spare with you. On Oct 20, 2008, at 6:23 AM, fubog1@aol.com wrote: > The only problem with a Land Rover, towing or not, is that you can't > be in a big hurry to get anywhere, and it sometimes helps if you > have a spare axle shaft on board... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Barr > To: Bill Babcock > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:35 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help > > I really like my old Land Rover. It has been lots of fun to drive and > I have taken it out on the Pipe Line in northern Wisconsin for some > off road fun. The Pipe Line is just that a natural gas right of way > and a long huge mud bog, lots of fun and a winch is needed for some of > the worst parts. > On Oct 19, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Similar to a boat--a LR is a hole in the traffic into which one >> pours money. Except the really old ones, which are pretty darned >> cool. >> >> On Oct 19, 2008, at 5:14 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >> >>> A friend of mind, sold his LR a few years ago and coin'd this >>> phrase. >>> >>> "The sucking sound from my wallet finally stopped." >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On 19-Oct-08, at 8:07 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >>> >>>> There's also the unfortunate trait of cracking off the rear frame >>>> rails when a heavy trailer is towed, which the landrover shares >>>> with several SUVs >>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: >>>> >>>>> I tried towing an Alfa with my 1974 Land rover Series III, just >>>>> about as slow as towing a Formula V with a '69 VW bus. I did not >>>>> use the over drive so maybe 45mph >>>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What ford vs GM vs dodge on a Brit car list! >>>>>> >>>>>> Where is the landrover vote? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hehe >>>>>> >>>>>> A >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>>>>> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >>>>>> On 19-Oct-08, at 18:45, "Henry Frye" wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >>> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >>> Ottawa, ON, Canada >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 06:46:37 2008 From: "Doug Mitchell" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:46:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help If anyone is interested in buying a Ford F series for a tow vehicle, (or any Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo or Mazda), let me know and I can arrange for X-Plan. Not quite as good as employee prices, but better than sticker and no haggling. Doug -- Doug Mitchell dmitchel@sbcglobal.net 1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 1973 Triumph Stag -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Henry Frye Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:45 PM To: Jack Brooks; 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help On any given weekend, go to the track and look at what other racers are towing with. In my part of the world, the overwhelming majority of tow vehicles are Fords, and I would guess Dodge are a distant second. Not many GM's at all. My F350 is an awesome tow vehicle... -----Original Message----- From: Jack Brooks Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out there, what Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 09:28:51 2008 From: TeriAnn Wakeman To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:28:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover fubog1@aol.com wrote: > A good friend of mine tells the story of when he was in the British > Army, they would go out on maneuvers with 100 Land Rovers... and one > of them would be full of spare axle shafts for them... > Glen with 3 broken axles in 29 years Series Land Rover axles are not supposed to be shear pins. The 10 spline axles worked fine for the lighter weight late Series I that they were developed for, but are marginal for the heavier Series II and Series III vehicles. I think it was more a story of the factory being perpetually short on development money and a make due attitude. Land Rover used stronger stronger ENV axle assemblies on their heavier duty, one ton versions and finally converted to the Salisbury on the long wheelbase Land Rovers with the introduction of the Series III in the early 1970's. The Salisbury is a Dana 60 built in the UK under license. The one ton versions and long wheelbase Series III's very seldom broke axles and they had the same basic drive train that the "shear pin" 10 spline axles were used with. I never realized that there were so many Series Land Rover owners on the FOT list. Teriann with 7 broken rear axles in 19 years of 109 ownership, followed by zero broken axles in the subsequent 11 years after replacing the Land Rover 10 spline rear axle with a Land Rover Salisbury rear axle. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 09:57:56 2008 From: "Tim Murphy" To: , Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:58:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] scattershields On the subject of scatter shields, I have one of Jack Drews aluminum scatter shields that we did not use, our old one was adapted to fit with the new motor mounts. The scatter shield is for a TR4. It may fit a TR3 but I don't know. There was a photo of this on Tony Drews website. This scatter shield is now for sale. Anyone interested, please contact me off list. Thanks. Tim Murphy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 7:35 AM Subject: [Fot] scattershields > Friends > > My clutch blew apart at Watkins Glen last weekend, throwing a > pea-sized piece of steel through the trans case at ankle height on what > is > usually the driver's side of the car(my car is RHD). I had just installed > a > scattershield made from an old police vest and there was no harm done. > Steel shields are fine, but heavy. If you able to locate a > surplus > military flak vest or expired police vest, you can easily make a good > shield. Police vests have expiration dates and are sold cheaply after > they expire. > They are still effective for our use. The material is ballistic cloth > made of > Kevlar. It is soft and easily cut with a razor knife. 1/2" thickness is > all > you need. > The material must be completely wrapped in plastic. It must be > protected from oil and other contaminents or it will break down. Hold the > pieces together with duct tape until you get a good fit. I wrapped mine > in plastic > and then glued it to the tunnel with contact cement. I then covered the > whole thing with vinyl and sprayed it black to match the tunnel. When > finished, > it is barely visible. Weight 2 lbs. > > > Dave > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 10:58:06 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:57:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] State of F1 Does anyone besides me think that the things currently being proposed in an effort to cut costs will render F1 the same as any other spec class? It sure looks like they are out to make all the cars the same. I like to watch F1 because it is essentially the pinnacle of technology. If all teams are using the same engine, suspension and other arts, how can it possibly continue to be that way. Joe C. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 11:05:39 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:05:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Yep. F1 is specially because of the designing, building, testing and innovation behind the model. Sure costs need to be brought under control, but you can't mess with the idea. I never liked IRL and stopped watching CART after a while. I do think they need to address the difference between the front and back pack runners. A. 2008/10/20 Joe Curry > Does anyone besides me think that the things currently being proposed in an > effort to cut costs will render F1 the same as any other spec class? It > sure looks like they are out to make all the cars the same. > > > > I like to watch F1 because it is essentially the pinnacle of technology. > If > all teams are using the same engine, suspension and other arts, how can it > possibly continue to be that way. > > > > Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 11:35:37 2008 From: koblinger@verizon.net To: Joe Curry Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:35:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 As expected, the proposal is going over like a lead balloon. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081020092005.shtml My thought is it is at best a bargaining chip. Is it just me or was the China GP just about the most boring race you'd ever seen? Kurt O. On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > Does anyone besides me think that the things currently being proposed > in an > effort to cut costs will render F1 the same as any other spec class? > It > sure looks like they are out to make all the cars the same. > > > I like to watch F1 because it is essentially the pinnacle of > technology. If > all teams are using the same engine, suspension and other arts, how > can it > possibly continue to be that way. > > > Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 11:42:11 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: koblinger@verizon.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:42:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I thought it was pretty good. Might have been the pre-race and during- race champagne though. I'm a big Kimi fan, and I loved his post-race interview. He was snickering at the questions about team orders while Massa tried to dance his way through. Kimi said "I understand what the team expects of me". Perfect answer. Can that Kubica drive, or what!?! Hamilton threatens to Schumacherize F1--dominate so totally that the races suck. Kubica and Vettel are the likely antidotes. On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:35 AM, koblinger@verizon.net wrote: > As expected, the proposal is going over like a lead balloon. > > http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081020092005.shtml > > My thought is it is at best a bargaining chip. > > Is it just me or was the China GP just about the most boring race > you'd ever seen? > > Kurt O. > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> Does anyone besides me think that the things currently being >> proposed in an >> effort to cut costs will render F1 the same as any other spec >> class? It >> sure looks like they are out to make all the cars the same. >> >> >> I like to watch F1 because it is essentially the pinnacle of >> technology. If >> all teams are using the same engine, suspension and other arts, how >> can it >> possibly continue to be that way. >> >> >> Joe C. >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 11:49:56 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Joe Curry" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:49:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I think the biggest challenge in F1 is arbitrary rule enforcement--or perhaps not arbitrary at all, since it's gotten a lot more like NASCAR debris flags. On the face of it, spec rules always sound good, but they yield the most boring racing imaginable. If they really wanted to manage costs they'd set a spending limit per team and let the teams decide how to use the money. With a known expense model the participation could be broader. But there's no way to know if the proposals are real or just bargaining chips. Generally the more outrageous stuff is just manipulation. All the same, I bet the current economic crisis has Bernie soiling his knickers. No French GP, nothing in North America? A crappy track in England? If current trends continue the lion's share of the show will be in Asia. Empty stands, racing in 120 degree heat, and sand on the tracks. You know there's a problem when the Shanghai track uses a major set of grandstands to hold a sign. Like packing all the patrons in a crappy restaurant into the window seats. On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:57 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > Does anyone besides me think that the things currently being > proposed in an > effort to cut costs will render F1 the same as any other spec > class? It > sure looks like they are out to make all the cars the same. > > > > I like to watch F1 because it is essentially the pinnacle of > technology. If > all teams are using the same engine, suspension and other arts, how > can it > possibly continue to be that way. > > > > Joe C. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 12:05:16 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: TeriAnn Wakeman Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:03:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover I never broke an axle on my Series III and I have done some crazy stuff with it. TeriAnn I know you are the FOT authority on landrovers so how strong is the overdrive on the series III? Is it up to towing with a slightly stronger 2,25 Rover engine? On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:28 AM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > fubog1@aol.com wrote: >> A good friend of mine tells the story of when he was in the British >> Army, they would go out on maneuvers with 100 Land Rovers... and >> one of them would be full of spare axle shafts for them... >> Glen with 3 broken axles in 29 years > > Series Land Rover axles are not supposed to be shear pins. The 10 > spline axles worked fine for the lighter weight late Series I that > they were developed for, but are marginal for the heavier Series II > and Series III vehicles. I think it was more a story of the factory > being perpetually short on development money and a make due attitude. > Land Rover used stronger stronger ENV axle assemblies on their > heavier duty, one ton versions and finally converted to the > Salisbury on the long wheelbase Land Rovers with the introduction of > the Series III in the early 1970's. The Salisbury is a Dana 60 > built in the UK under license. The one ton versions and long > wheelbase Series III's very seldom broke axles and they had the same > basic drive train that the "shear pin" 10 spline axles were used with. > > I never realized that there were so many Series Land Rover owners on > the FOT list. > > Teriann with 7 broken rear axles in 19 years of 109 ownership, > followed by zero broken axles in the subsequent 11 years after > replacing the Land Rover 10 spline rear axle with a Land Rover > Salisbury rear axle. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 12:09:51 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:09:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Yep, pretty boring. I am dumbfounded at Ferrari's lack of pace at that race. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: koblinger@verizon.net [mailto:koblinger@verizon.net] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 10:35 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: RE: [Fot] State of F1 As expected, the proposal is going over like a lead balloon. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081020092005.shtml My thought is it is at best a bargaining chip. Is it just me or was the China GP just about the most boring race you'd ever seen? Kurt O. fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 12:58:52 2008 From: TeriAnn Wakeman To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:58:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover Jerry Barr wrote: > I never broke an axle on my Series III and I have done some crazy > stuff with it. TeriAnn I know you are the FOT authority on landrovers > so how strong is the overdrive on the series III? Is it up to towing > with a slightly stronger 2,25 Rover engine? The Roverdrive from Wise Owl is made using existing North American automotive gears as much as possible and is considered to be a strong unit. The Fairy overdrive is not all that strong. Both are heat sensitive, the Fairy having its own oil is more so than the Roverdrive. Key to longevity is to keep the 90wt topped up and change the Fairy's oil frequently. You realize of course that the 2.25L petrol engine with 8:1 head is optimistically rated at 70hp? You would be much better off swapping in a 200tdi engine. Its the simplest of the tdi swaps & nets you about 45 additional hp plus greater fuel mileage. A stock engined Series Land Rover would not be in consideration for my list of tow vehicles. Of course my Series Land Rover is powered by a Ford 302 with Mustang EFI so I could consider it with an aluminum trailer. Teriann _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 13:20:47 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: TeriAnn Wakeman Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:20:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover One more question. What driveline are you using behind the 302? Stock Rover? On Oct 20, 2008, at 1:58 PM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Jerry Barr wrote: >> I never broke an axle on my Series III and I have done some crazy >> stuff with it. TeriAnn I know you are the FOT authority on >> landrovers so how strong is the overdrive on the series III? Is it >> up to towing with a slightly stronger 2,25 Rover engine? > The Roverdrive from Wise Owl is made using existing North American > automotive gears as much as possible and is considered to be a > strong unit. The Fairy overdrive is not all that strong. Both are > heat sensitive, the Fairy having its own oil is more so than the > Roverdrive. Key to longevity is to keep the 90wt topped up and > change the Fairy's oil frequently. > > You realize of course that the 2.25L petrol engine with 8:1 head is > optimistically rated at 70hp? You would be much better off swapping > in a 200tdi engine. Its the simplest of the tdi swaps & nets you > about 45 additional hp plus greater fuel mileage. > > A stock engined Series Land Rover would not be in consideration for > my list of tow vehicles. Of course my Series Land Rover is powered > by a Ford 302 with Mustang EFI so I could consider it with an > aluminum trailer. > > Teriann > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 13:34:02 2008 From: Ted Schumacher To: Bobby Whitehead Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:31:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios Bobby, tried to reply last night and not sure if reply got through. Here we go again. Apologies for sending twice if it did get through. This will only work for "open", not welded or limited slip, differential. Put a mark on the pinion (drive shaft) flange and a mark on one wheel (or tire or brake drum). Keep the other wheel, tire, etc.from turning. Turn the drive shaft and count the number of turns of the pinion flange needed to get 1 revolution of the tire. Multiply this by 2 and you have the ratio. Example - just over 2 turns is a 4.1, just under 4 turns is a 3.9, 1 3/4 turns is a 3.5, etc. All you have to do is know what ratios were available. The example of 1 3/4 turns as a 3.5 is not quite correct. Triumph did not make a 3.5, but they did make a 3.45. That's one method - no tools, no fuss, no dismantling. Ted Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Forgot to mention... I have several differentials laying around. I don't have them in the car. I have known and determined I have a 3:89 locked in the GT6. If I indeed DO have a 4:11 I need to understand how to figure it out without being in the car. > > Thanks guys.... > > Bobby Whitehead > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: 10/19/2008 6:02 PM > > -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx@bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 14:24:40 2008 From: TeriAnn Wakeman To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:24:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help -Land Rover Jerry Barr wrote: > One more question. What driveline are you using behind the 302? Stock > Rover? > I think we have wondered off list topic here. Engine: Ford 1970 Ford 302 with 1991 Mustang EFI Gearbox: BW T-18 Transfercase: Series transfercase with Ashcroft high ratio kit Custom front & rear propshafts with longer slip joints and higher angle U joints Rear Axle assy: Salisbury (Dana 60 built under license with ARB locker and hardened axles & frive flange from Great basin Rovers Front axle assembly: Land Rover with Trutrac front diff and Seriestrak 24 spline front axles www.expeditionlandrover.info Teriann _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 14:41:16 2008 From: "Randall" To: North Bay British Car Club Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:41:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios > This will only work for "open", not welded or limited slip, > differential. And you'll learn very quickly if you do have a locked or limited slip diff, because you'll not be able to turn the input flange with one wheel locked. In that case, the same process will work except you can leave the wheel unlocked, and not multiply by 2. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 15:08:38 2008 From: Gasket Works USA To: Bryan Savage Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:08:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] scattershields Some years ago... I had gone to Deist Safety in Glendale California and had ballistic nylon "scattershield" blankets made. They still likely have the pattern. SFI approoved. These units are formed and fitted to our TR4/6 gearboxes. They are many - layer thick about 1/2-5/8" . Strap on easily and the front tabs have washer rings that are held by the tranny bolts to keep it in place. Mordy M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 15:30:00 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Ted Schumacher Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:29:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios With a locked or welded diff you don't do multiplication by two. I find it simpler and more accurate to do ten rotations of the tire--no interpolation. 37 output shaft turns vs. 39. Not a lot of room for error there. I just had to do it for the Ambro. On Oct 20, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Ted Schumacher wrote: > Bobby, tried to reply last night and not sure if reply got through. > Here we go again. Apologies for sending twice if it did get through. > This will only work for "open", not welded or limited slip, > differential. Put a mark on the pinion (drive shaft) flange and a > mark > on one wheel (or tire or brake drum). Keep the other wheel, tire, > etc.from turning. Turn the drive shaft and count the number of turns > of > the pinion flange needed to get 1 revolution of the tire. Multiply > this > by 2 and you have the ratio. Example - just over 2 turns is a 4.1, > just > under 4 turns is a 3.9, 1 3/4 turns is a 3.5, etc. All you have to > do is > know what ratios were available. The example of 1 3/4 turns as a > 3.5 is > not quite correct. Triumph did not make a 3.5, but they did make a > 3.45. That's one method - no tools, no fuss, no dismantling. Ted > > Bobby Whitehead wrote: >> Forgot to mention... I have several differentials laying around. I >> don't have them in the car. I have known and determined I have a >> 3:89 locked in the GT6. If I indeed DO have a 4:11 I need to >> understand how to figure it out without being in the car. >> >> Thanks guys.... >> >> Bobby Whitehead >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: >> 10/19/2008 6:02 PM >> >> > > > -- > Ted Schumacher > tedtsimx@bright.net > http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com > 108 S. Jefferson St. > Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 > Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) > Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) > Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 15:42:15 2008 From: "Terry Stetler" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:42:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 My idea for cost cutting is quite simple. Instead of a maximum rev limit, institute a minimum stroke limit. Say, 4 inches. Change the spec tire to a Dunlop L series. Ban wings. Give a weight break to front engine cars. Then we will find out who the real drivers are, and not just the guys who have the nerve to test the absurdly high limits of today's F1 cars. Terry Stetler _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 15:54:24 2008 From: A Daniel Cronin To: Friends of Triumph , Triumph List Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR 6 Trunion Oilers In the past there have been several "hints" on how and what to use on the later TR Trunnions. One suggestion was to use an pressure oil can (Harbor Freight) and another was on the VTR web site and a posting under www.vtr.org/maintain/trunnion-oil.shtml I have been looking for the Mercury Marine unit described in the VTR post and finally found and purchased four of them which was the min. order they would supply. So, I have three available at cost ($20.00 plus shipping from 48336). Very neat unit and uses any of the various 10oz or so tubes of 80/90 wt gear oil with the 3/8" (+/-) threads below the nozzle. These tubes run from 5 to 8 $$. If you would like one of these pumps to assist in correctly lubricating the trunnions through the Zerk fittings, let me know. Shipping should be $8.00 or less depending on your location. Dan _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 15:56:43 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:57:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox Amici, Can anyone point me to a good reference for rebuilding the TR6 gearbox? I broke a spacer in mine this weekend and it has me wondering. Do I set it up tight with little endplay in the gears or loose so they slam around ? Where are the critical dimensions and clearances? I'm using the Moss close ratio gears if that makes any difference... Steve **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 15:57:20 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Friends of Triumph Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:57:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Pat Moss I guess this may be old news, but I hadn't heard it. I just heard from the OGSDETR (Old Guys Still Dumb Enough to Race) that Pat Moss died. A fine lady and great talent. Sad day. Like probably many of you I've had the privilege of meeting both Pat Moss and her brother Stirling at various vintage events. The Moss family is so topheavy with talent that it's amazing how down to earth and kind they are. Each time I had the chance to briefly talk with them I was overwhelmed by what fundamentally nice people they are, and how unaffected and genuinely interested they were in what a goofball like me is up to. Phil Hill was the same way--kind, interested, respectful of the modest talents (or at least the feelings) of we amateurs. It's been a bad year for losing remarkable people.. It's a gloomy day in Portland, that seems to fit. I better go downstairs and tinker with cars. The best way I know to deal with sad moments like this. Here's the details: No one made greater strides towards equality for women in motor sport than Pat Moss. Not for her the mere satisfaction of a shelf full of Coupe des Dames. She wanted to beat the men, and she frequently did so. Pat Moss was born in Thames Ditton in 1934. Her original sport was showjumping and she had no encouragement to start driving cars from her brother, Stirling, or from her parents. However, when Stirlingb*s manager, Ken Gregory, invited Pat to go on a treasure hunt, she enjoyed it immensely and fancied a go herself. She was soon competing regularly in British rallies with her Morris Minor convertible. The rallying had to be fitted in around the showjumping, at which she was highly successful b* indeed, it was the prize-money from the showjumping that enabled her to buy a Triumph TR2 in 1954. For the 1955 RAC Rally she had her first works drive, an MG TF. Ice and snow were problems that year, and she had to be satisfied with third in the Ladies Class, but her name was starting to appear on the special test times. Other drives from BMC followed, and her first continental outing was to the Tulip Rally in 1955 with an MG Magnette. She was given an Austin A90 for the 1956 Monte Carlo Rally, in which she finished 87th after a couple of brake failures and minor accidents. She drove an MGA on the 1956 RAC Rally, where she nearly won the Ladies Class. Various rallies in Riley 1.5s followed until 1957, when she drove a Minor 1000 on the Tulip Rally and then took one on the LiC(ge-Rome- LiC(ge, finishing 23rd. More astonishing was the RAC Rally of 1958 when she finished fourth overall, won her class and the Ladies Award into the bargain. Later that summer she took an MGA to the Rally to the Midnight Sun in Sweden and met Erik Carlsson. She started driving a Healey 100/6 and took a fourth place on the LiC(ge and led the Healey team to win the Manufacturerb*s Award. It was the first time that a lady driver had finished in the top ten on that gruelling event, and the points gained assured her of the Ladies European Champion title. Then for 1959 it was back to an Austin A40 for tenth overall on the Monte Carlo and a Riley 1.5 on the Sestriere before taking a Healey 3000 to the German Rally and tying for first place with Carlssonb*s Saab. In 1960 she drove big Healeys again, coming eighth on both the Geneva and Tulip rallies, second on the Coupe des Alpes, followed almost at once by an outright win on the LiC(ge. This was a stunning achievement, regardless of her gender, and it elevated Moss to superstar status in the rallying world. The year finished with an outing at the RAC Rally, where she would have been fourth but for a time-card error. The year 1961 was less dramatic but she did take a Healey to second place at the RAC and then, bravely, took one to Corsica where, against all the odds, she finished 16th. She also decided to buy her own rally car, and bought a Saab 96 on advice from Carlsson. When he got a free entry on the Safari by winning the RAC Rally, she took her car to Africa and finished third on her first attempt at that difficult event. Back in Europe and in a Mini Cooper, she won the Tulip and German rallies, while in a Healey she was second in Poland, and third on the Coupe des Alpes and RAC rallies. She then accepted Fordb*s tempting offer to rally its new Cortina in 1963, but the best result all year was sixth on the Acropolis Rally. She and Carlsson were married in March of that year, and towards the end of the season Ford tried to sign Erik for 1964. However, when he decided to stay at Saab, Moss left Ford and joined him there. In 1964 the two-stroke Saab was past its zenith but you would never have known it to see Mr and Mrs Carlsson driving them. She rarely failed to finish and was rarely placed outside the top ten. In four years with Saab, she was third on the Acropolis, and fourth on both the LiC(ge-Sofia- LiC(ge and RAC Rally, all in 1964, third on the savage Monte Carlo of 1965, and third on the Czech Rally of 1967 in the new Saab 96 V4. This heavier car was not to everyoneb*s liking and, with Erik retiring to a company PR job, Moss decided to accept an offer from Lancia to drive a Fulvia CoupC) in 1968. On the Monte Carlo she finished 14th, but in San Remo she was second overall and won the Sestriere Rally outright. In 1969 she took a Fulvia to sixth overall on the Monte Carlo and drove in such famous road races as the Targa Florio. The birth of her daughter then rather distracted her from rallying and, though she made the occasional appearance, she had effectively retired at the start of the 1970s. Moss wrote two books: The Story so Far (1967), a memoir, and (with her husband) The Art and Technique of Driving (1965). In the two decades of her career she had shown unequivocally that, where speed and stamina counted, there was every reason that a woman driver could succeed against the men. Certainly to the male drivers of that golden period, she was a genuine rival. In the 1980s Mossb*s interest in showjumping and horses in general was rekindled as her daughter showed aptitude in that direction. Soon horseboxes and estate cars had totally ousted any thought of rally cars in the Moss-Carlsson homestead outside Tring. But to the rally world Pat Moss will remain an icon indicating that skill, endurance and determination are the true measures of a rally driverb*s ability. Moss is survived by her husband, Erik Carlsson, and her daughter, Suzy. Pat Moss-Carlsson, rally driver, was born on December 27, 1934. She died after a long illness on October 14, 2008, aged 73 Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 15:58:17 2008 From: "Richard Taylor" To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'Ted Schumacher'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:58:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios ....and suppose you have an overdrive unit? With a locked or welded diff you don't do multiplication by two. I find it simpler and more accurate to do ten rotations of the tire--no interpolation. 37 output shaft turns vs. 39. Not a lot of room for error there. I just had to do it for the Ambro. On Oct 20, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Ted Schumacher wrote: > Bobby, tried to reply last night and not sure if reply got through. > Here we go again. Apologies for sending twice if it did get through. > This will only work for "open", not welded or limited slip, > differential. Put a mark on the pinion (drive shaft) flange and a > mark > on one wheel (or tire or brake drum). Keep the other wheel, tire, > etc.from turning. Turn the drive shaft and count the number of turns > of > the pinion flange needed to get 1 revolution of the tire. Multiply > this > by 2 and you have the ratio. Example - just over 2 turns is a 4.1, > just > under 4 turns is a 3.9, 1 3/4 turns is a 3.5, etc. All you have to > do is > know what ratios were available. The example of 1 3/4 turns as a > 3.5 is > not quite correct. Triumph did not make a 3.5, but they did make a > 3.45. That's one method - no tools, no fuss, no dismantling. Ted > > Bobby Whitehead wrote: >> Forgot to mention... I have several differentials laying around. I >> don't have them in the car. I have known and determined I have a >> 3:89 locked in the GT6. If I indeed DO have a 4:11 I need to >> understand how to figure it out without being in the car. >> >> Thanks guys.... >> >> Bobby Whitehead >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: >> 10/19/2008 6:02 PM >> >> > > > -- > Ted Schumacher > tedtsimx@bright.net > http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com > 108 S. Jefferson St. > Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 > Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) > Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) > Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 16:41:30 2008 From: "Randall" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" , "'Triumph List'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:41:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR 6 Trunion Oilers > I have been looking for the > Mercury > Marine unit described in the VTR post and finally found and purchased four > of > them which was the min. order they would supply. That's odd. I had no trouble ordering just one, directly through Mercury Marine. http://tinyurl.com/57n99w Their website referred me to a local dealer after asking my zip code, but I still ordered it on-line. Then of course I sold the Sports 6 without ever trying it, so it's still hanging on the wall. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 17:11:28 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Richard Taylor" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:11:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios Overdrive comes before the diff. There is no change in the diff, unless, of course, you have some frankenstein integrated diff/OD, but I don't recall ever having heard of one on a GT6. On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Richard Taylor wrote: > ....and suppose you have an overdrive unit? > > > With a locked or welded diff you don't do multiplication by two. I > find it simpler and more accurate to do ten rotations of the tire--no > interpolation. 37 output shaft turns vs. 39. Not a lot of room for > error there. I just had to do it for the Ambro. > On Oct 20, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Ted Schumacher wrote: > > > Bobby, tried to reply last night and not sure if reply got through. > > Here we go again. Apologies for sending twice if it did get through. > > This will only work for "open", not welded or limited slip, > > differential. Put a mark on the pinion (drive shaft) flange and a > > mark > > on one wheel (or tire or brake drum). Keep the other wheel, tire, > > etc.from turning. Turn the drive shaft and count the number of turns > > of > > the pinion flange needed to get 1 revolution of the tire. Multiply > > this > > by 2 and you have the ratio. Example - just over 2 turns is a 4.1, > > just > > under 4 turns is a 3.9, 1 3/4 turns is a 3.5, etc. All you have to > > do is > > know what ratios were available. The example of 1 3/4 turns as a > > 3.5 is > > not quite correct. Triumph did not make a 3.5, but they did make a > > 3.45. That's one method - no tools, no fuss, no dismantling. Ted > > > > Bobby Whitehead wrote: > >> Forgot to mention... I have several differentials laying around. I > >> don't have them in the car. I have known and determined I have a > >> 3:89 locked in the GT6. If I indeed DO have a 4:11 I need to > >> understand how to figure it out without being in the car. > >> > >> Thanks guys.... > >> > >> Bobby Whitehead > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> http://www.fot-racing.com > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot@autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: > >> 10/19/2008 6:02 PM > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Ted Schumacher > > tedtsimx@bright.net > > http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com > > 108 S. Jefferson St. > > Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 > > Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) > > Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) > > Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 19:12:05 2008 From: David Ceilley To: Fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] email list i would like to remove my name from the FOT list due to overwhelming number of emails. Please remove dwceilley@embarqmail.com thank you. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 19:51:47 2008 From: David Ceilley To: danceilley@comcast.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Ceilley Nomination I want to thank all of you also for being weekend warrior friends to my Dad and Mom. They really enjoyed the great atmosphere and especially nice folks involved in Vintage racing. I hope to be back soon with complete rebuilt engine in the 1971 black Spitfire that my brother Dan, father Ed and I raced together. We miss you Dad! See you at the races! Dave Ceilley ----- Original Message ----- From: danceilley@comcast.net To: N197TR4@cs.com, trmarty@hotmail.com, fot@autox.team.net Cc: dwceilley@embarqmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:58:18 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York Subject: Re: [Fot] Ceilley Nomination Thanks so much Marty, Joe and everyone. Had it not been for vintage racing, my Dad, Mom, brother Dave and I would not have crossed paths with so many fine people, many of which are on this list. I had been on it before, but in changing my e-mail awhile back I lost touch. We really enjoyed the camaraderie and look forward to staying involved. My Dad's '69 GT-6 was the car that we all started with back in 1991, and I look forward to doing a complete frame up restoration on it. I hope there's some GT-6 guys out there to offer some advice, I'll need it! The black '71 Spitfire was a car (with a unique history) that I purchased in 1996 and raced (with a lot of help from willing hands!) until my brother Dave and Dad partnered up with me and eventually purchased outright as demands of home and family prevailed. Dave will continue to race it, and my Mom and I plan to help out as crew members. Sorry to be long winded, but I wanted to share that and thank everyone who touched my father's life through the sport. He truly loved it and the people he met because of it. It's unfortunate that the vintage racing community has lost three people recently that I personally knew and felt exemplified the spirit of the sport: my Dad, Jack Drews and Mike Cammarata. I hope we can carry on in that same spirit. Best Regards, Dan Ceilley -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: N197TR4@cs.com > FoT, > > I thought Dan and Dave were on the list....or at least one of them. Ed & > Yvonne Ceilley were an important part of the Triumph Vintage scene for a very > long time....beginning in about 1989 or 1990. We traveled together for several > years. Recently, I have been trying to think of a way to commemorate Ed's > memory. > > Uncle Jack & I were on are way to Florida when son Sean called me. Then it > all got away from me. My apologies. > > We will come up with something fitting in the near future. > > Joe A. > > > > > Ed Ceilley's sons Dan and Dave will be carrying on the Vintage Race program > > for Team Ceilley with Dan campaigning Ed's Black GT6 and Dave Campaigning > > Ed's Black Spitfire. They would like to be able to keep in touch with the > > Triumph family so I would like to nominate them both to the FOT fraternity. > Email > > addresses as follows. > > Dan : danceilley@comcast.net > > Dave: dwceilley@embarqmail.com > > > > Can I get a second or two? > > > > Thanks, > > Marty Sukey > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 19:58:26 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "marty sukey" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:58:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Ceilley Nomination By all means! 2008/8/25 marty sukey > Ed Ceilley's sons Dan and Dave will be carrying on the Vintage Race program > for Team Ceilley with Dan campaigning Ed's Black GT6 and Dave Campaigning > Ed's Black Spitfire. They would like to be able to keep in touch with the > Triumph family so I would like to nominate them both to the FOT fraternity. > Email addresses as follows. > Dan : danceilley@comcast.net > Dave: dwceilley@embarqmail.com > > Can I get a second or two? > > Thanks, > Marty Sukey > > ------------------------------ > Be the filmmaker you always wanted to belearn how to burn a DVD with > Windows(R). Make your smash hit > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 20:23:57 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: dwceilley@embarqmail.com (David Ceilley), Fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:23:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] email list there is the digest version, Dave. would you try that? we dont want to see you go away. heard from Yvonne before the Glen... joe a >i would like to remove my name from the FOT list due to overwhelming number of emails. > >Please remove dwceilley@embarqmail.com > >thank you. >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 21:40:23 2008 From: "Robert Johns" To: "FOT team" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:36:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Thanks for great write up on Pat Moss Bill, I really appreciated your write up. I had the privilege of spending some time with Sterling at the Nurburgring. He certainly is everything you said about him and Pat. He was at the Ring to get in some practice and I engaged him in conversation in the pits. We talked for a while and then retired to the Cafe to sit and have a cup of coffee. He was very easy to talk to and certainly was down to earth, as you said. Thanks again for the great write up. Bob Johns _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 23:10:58 2008 From: "Jack Brooks" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:10:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I want to thanks all of you for your advice on tow vehicles. My friend bought an F-250 today (he only needed a 3/4 ton) The general agreement of the group was enough to confirm his belief that Ford was the right way to go. Please now cease all remaining tow vehicle posts. It's filling up my mailbox! . Thanks again, jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:13 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Tow vehicle help I know many of you have been scooping up bargain priced tow rigs lately. Unfortunately, since I am not in the market, I have not been paying attention to the posts. A good friend is looking for a new vehicle, so I figured I'd poll the FOT and see what you have been finding out there, what works well and what does not, and hopefully, what kind of deals have been cut. He is looking for the following: Towing up to 10,000 pounds Diesel required extended or crew cab four wheel drive, for negotiating site conditions and our mountain passes in the winter 3/4 ton Your experience with the vehicles you have purchased or driven lately would be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have found that dealers will cut $10k or more off sticker prices, those specifics, while they will vary by dealer and regions, would be appreciated also. Thanks in advance, Jack Seattle Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 23:15:30 2008 From: Catpusher@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 01:15:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: TR6 gearbox I had the best results setting the end play(s) inside the factory TR2/4/6 workshop manual specks; keep in mind that this is at room temp. Loose was not good. Pay attention to optimizing everything, if you have time. TR Regards Hardy In a message dated 10/20/2008 6:58:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request@autox.team.net writes: From: Gt6steve@aol.com Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox To: FOT@autox.team.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Amici, Can anyone point me to a good reference for rebuilding the TR6 gearbox? I broke a spacer in mine this weekend and it has me wondering. Do I set it up tight with little endplay in the gears or loose so they slam around ? Where are the critical dimensions and clearances? I'm using the Moss close ratio gears if that makes any difference... Steve **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 08:20:34 2008 From: "steve belfer" To: N197TR4@cs.com, fot-bounces@autox.team.net, "David Ceilley" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:19:09 +0000 Subject: Re: [Fot] email list Why don't we just try to have Babcock say less. Hahahahahhaha Sb ------Original Message------ From: N197TR4@cs.com Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net To: David Ceilley To: Fot@autox.team.net Sent: Oct 20, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] email list there is the digest version, Dave. would you try that? we dont want to see you go away. heard from Yvonne before the Glen... joe a >i would like to remove my name from the FOT list due to overwhelming number of emails. > >Please remove dwceilley@embarqmail.com > >thank you. >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 15:06:56 2008 From: "Don Marshall" To: "FOT" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:06:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire transport from midwest to south If anyone is going to be heading in the general direction of Florida from the midwest (is Illinois considered midwest or just plain north?) anytime soon and might have room for a ratty Spitfire and some parts, please get in touch with me. Naturally I'm anxious to help with expenses. Thanks, Don Marshall 904-259-9668 Don Marshall D.L. Marshall & Associates, Inc. Communications Consultants 6216 Michele Rd. Macclenny, FL 32063 904-553-2156 DonMarshall@nefcom.net _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 16:42:46 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: colordog.1@earthlink.net, N197TR4@cs.com, Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:42:31 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] email list In a message dated 10/21/2008 6:21:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, colordog.1@earthlink.net writes: Why don't we just try to have Babcock say less. Hahahahahhaha That's not a solution I'd welcome, quite the opposite... **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 16:46:50 2008 From: "Chuck Arnold" To: Gt6steve@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:46:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] email list I second that -- Bill is a fountain,er,20 foot wave, of knowledge, advice,help and introspection. On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 3:42 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/21/2008 6:21:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, > colordog.1@earthlink.net writes: > > Why don't we just try to have Babcock say less. Hahahahahhaha > > > That's not a solution I'd welcome, quite the opposite... > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 19:59:58 2008 From: "Joe Boruch" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 01:36:42 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 Dry Sump Oiling In the FOT archives there was some talk about dry sumped TR6's, but what about TR3's? Has anyone successfully dry sumped a TR3? Looks kind of tight to keep the pump low, since the left side motor mount/engine plate gets in the way. The pump may fit above the mount, but not sure if that is too high for proper scavenging. No room below the block, since the front cross member would prevent being able to drive the pump. Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________________ Get Freebies & Coupons -- Free of Hassle at FreeInternet.com! Visit http://offers.netzero.net/TGL1211/?u=http://www.freeinternet.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 20:59:48 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Richard Taylor" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:07:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] determining differential ratios Well that doesn't change the diff ratio. But it reminds me of watching an acquaintance hand rotate his engine in a parking lot with the plugs pulled and the car in top gear so he could measure distance traveled per revolution. I suggested mathematics, but he didn't consider that to be a practical alternative. On Oct 20, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Richard Taylor wrote: > ....and suppose you have an overdrive unit? > > > With a locked or welded diff you don't do multiplication by two. I > find it simpler and more accurate to do ten rotations of the tire--no > interpolation. 37 output shaft turns vs. 39. Not a lot of room for > error there. I just had to do it for the Ambro. > On Oct 20, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Ted Schumacher wrote: > >> Bobby, tried to reply last night and not sure if reply got through. >> Here we go again. Apologies for sending twice if it did get through. >> This will only work for "open", not welded or limited slip, >> differential. Put a mark on the pinion (drive shaft) flange and a >> mark >> on one wheel (or tire or brake drum). Keep the other wheel, tire, >> etc.from turning. Turn the drive shaft and count the number of turns >> of >> the pinion flange needed to get 1 revolution of the tire. Multiply >> this >> by 2 and you have the ratio. Example - just over 2 turns is a 4.1, >> just >> under 4 turns is a 3.9, 1 3/4 turns is a 3.5, etc. All you have to >> do is >> know what ratios were available. The example of 1 3/4 turns as a >> 3.5 is >> not quite correct. Triumph did not make a 3.5, but they did make a >> 3.45. That's one method - no tools, no fuss, no dismantling. Ted >> >> Bobby Whitehead wrote: >>> Forgot to mention... I have several differentials laying around. I >>> don't have them in the car. I have known and determined I have a >>> 3:89 locked in the GT6. If I indeed DO have a 4:11 I need to >>> understand how to figure it out without being in the car. >>> >>> Thanks guys.... >>> >>> Bobby Whitehead >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: >>> 10/19/2008 6:02 PM >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ted Schumacher >> tedtsimx@bright.net >> http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com >> 108 S. Jefferson St. >> Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 >> Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) >> Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) >> Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 20:59:58 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Terry Stetler" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:24:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Hmmm. Sounds like 1965. I've played Grand Prix Legends (a videogame with golden age F1 cars). You wind up in the wall about every other lap. Cost cutting is very easy. Control the one thing that actually affects cost--the availability of money. I'd love to see F1 done on a budget. Say 50 million per car. You'd have some very creative fiddling, but that's just an accounting problem. A couple of tame economists and a handful off former IRS agents and you'd be able to frame and manage the rules. The current approaches are like trying to control the amount of clothing your wife buys by limiting her underwear. Besides being dangerous to your health to even attempt such a thing, the truth is that clothing expands to fit all available closet space, just as TR3 parts do. If F1 doesn't control the upper limits of expenditure, then expense will grow to use all available funds--and even in these nervous times, there's a lot of money available to top level F1 teams. Can a team with a $50 million budget compete with one that has $500mm. Obviously not. McLaren and Ferrari would go nuts, but it would result in real racing throughout the grid--not just at the pointy end. Pointless to speculate about such a thing I guess, that bell isn't likely to get unrung. On Oct 20, 2008, at 2:42 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > My idea for cost cutting is quite simple. > > Instead of a maximum rev limit, institute a minimum stroke limit. > > Say, 4 inches. > > Change the spec tire to a Dunlop L series. > > Ban wings. > > Give a weight break to front engine cars. > > Then we will find out who the real drivers are, and not just the > guys who have > the nerve to test the absurdly high limits of today's F1 cars. > > Terry Stetler > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 20:59:59 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Gt6steve@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:44:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] email list Thanks guys, but I'm not offended. I'm well aware that I type faster than I think. I'm headed off to Maui in a couple of weeks so you won't be hearing much from me anyway for the winter. No LBCs at Ponohouse. I spend my days in the water. I paddled my standup board in Portland today and nearly froze my tail off. So rest up, me and my flying fingers will be back in the spring. If any of you get to Maui this year be sure to let me know, I'd be happy to have any and all of you over for a mai tai and some poke. Which is all much better than it sounds. Aloha, Bill On Oct 21, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Gt6steve@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/21/2008 6:21:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, > colordog.1@earthlink.net writes: > > Why don't we just try to have Babcock say less. Hahahahahhaha > > > That's not a solution I'd welcome, quite the opposite... > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 21:20:32 2008 From: "Terry Stetler" To: "Bill Babcock" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:15:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Don't get me wrong here, I love the modern technical exercise that is formula one. However, if they price themselves out of being viable, or if the promoters decide that Bernie's costs are too high (France next year?), then we have problems. I actually like your spending cap idea. Let 'em have all the rpm they want as well. How many engines twisting 20K rpm can you afford on a $50 million budget? I used to play GPL in the day, but something about the physics model left me wanting. Now I "drive" GTR2 with a GT Legends mod on it as well. Ferrari 275 GTB4 at Mid Ohio is a bit of a challenge. Terry Stetler. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Terry Stetler Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Hmmm. Sounds like 1965. I've played Grand Prix Legends (a videogame with golden age F1 cars). You wind up in the wall about every other lap. Cost cutting is very easy. Control the one thing that actually affects cost--the availability of money. I'd love to see F1 done on a budget. Say 50 million per car. You'd have some very creative fiddling, but that's just an accounting problem. A couple of tame economists and a handful off former IRS agents and you'd be able to frame and manage the rules. The current approaches are like trying to control the amount of clothing your wife buys by limiting her underwear. Besides being dangerous to your health to even attempt such a thing, the truth is that clothing expands to fit all available closet space, just as TR3 parts do. If F1 doesn't control the upper limits of expenditure, then expense will grow to use all available funds--and even in these nervous times, there's a lot of money available to top level F1 teams. Can a team with a $50 million budget compete with one that has $500mm. Obviously not. McLaren and Ferrari would go nuts, but it would result in real racing throughout the grid--not just at the pointy end. Pointless to speculate about such a thing I guess, that bell isn't likely to get unrung. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 03:46:58 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Terry Stetler Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:46:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Love GtL and GTR2 Was bombing around Mosport last night in a TR4! Did anyone suggest the drivers should makes less? Or all have a base salary and performance bonus. A Sent from my iPod Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca On 21-Oct-08, at 23:15, "Terry Stetler" wrote: > Don't get me wrong here, I love the modern technical exercise that > is formula > one. However, if they price themselves out of being viable, or if the > promoters decide that Bernie's costs are too high (France next > year?), then we > have problems. > > I actually like your spending cap idea. Let 'em have all the rpm > they want as > well. How many engines twisting 20K rpm can you afford on a $50 > million > budget? > > I used to play GPL in the day, but something about the physics model > left me > wanting. Now I "drive" GTR2 with a GT Legends mod on it as well. > Ferrari 275 > GTB4 at Mid Ohio is a bit of a challenge. > Terry Stetler. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Terry Stetler > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 6:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > > Hmmm. Sounds like 1965. I've played Grand Prix Legends (a videogame > with > golden age F1 cars). You wind up in the wall about every other lap. > > > Cost cutting is very easy. Control the one thing that actually > affects > cost--the availability of money. I'd love to see F1 done on a > budget. Say 50 > million per car. You'd have some very creative fiddling, but that's > just an > accounting problem. A couple of tame economists and a handful off > former IRS > agents and you'd be able to frame and manage the rules. > > > The current approaches are like trying to control the amount of > clothing > your wife buys by limiting her underwear. Besides being dangerous to > your > health to even attempt such a thing, the truth is that clothing > expands to fit > all available closet space, just as TR3 parts do. If F1 doesn't > control the > upper limits of expenditure, then expense will grow to use all > available > funds--and even in these nervous times, there's a lot of money > available to > top level F1 teams. Can a team with a $50 million budget compete > with one that > has $500mm. Obviously not. > > > McLaren and Ferrari would go nuts, but it would result in real racing > throughout the grid--not just at the pointy end. > > > Pointless to speculate about such a thing I guess, that bell isn't > likely to > get unrung. > > > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 05:47:42 2008 From: Ernest Husmann To: Bill Babcock Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 04:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] email list Tubular man. Take it easy on those 20 footers, dude. --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] email list To: Gt6steve@aol.com Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 7:44 PM Thanks guys, but I'm not offended. I'm well aware that I type faster than I think. I'm headed off to Maui in a couple of weeks so you won't be hearing much from me anyway for the winter. No LBCs at Ponohouse. I spend my days in the water. I paddled my standup board in Portland today and nearly froze my tail off. So rest up, me and my flying fingers will be back in the spring. If any of you get to Maui this year be sure to let me know, I'd be happy to have any and all of you over for a mai tai and some poke. Which is all much better than it sounds. Aloha, Bill On Oct 21, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Gt6steve@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/21/2008 6:21:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, > colordog.1@earthlink.net writes: > > Why don't we just try to have Babcock say less. Hahahahahhaha > > > That's not a solution I'd welcome, quite the opposite... > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 07:34:33 2008 From: Tony Drews To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 08:34:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Anyone remember when almost all of the F1 cars used Ford/Cosworth power? I thought that worked OK back then. That said, I'm not a big fan of spec racing for F1 - it does make for close racing, though. - Tony Drews _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 07:48:51 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Tony Drews" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:48:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Yeah spec does not encourage "creative" engineering :) A. 2008/10/22 Tony Drews > Anyone remember when almost all of the F1 cars used Ford/Cosworth power? I > thought that worked OK back then. > > That said, I'm not a big fan of spec racing for F1 - it does make for close > racing, though. > > - Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 07:55:43 2008 From: "Craig" To: "Andre Rousseau" , "Tony Drews" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:00:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Andre what they are doing right now encourage same (pricing them selves out of the game) Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Tony Drews" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > Yeah spec does not encourage "creative" engineering :) > A. > > 2008/10/22 Tony Drews > >> Anyone remember when almost all of the F1 cars used Ford/Cosworth power? >> I >> thought that worked OK back then. >> >> That said, I'm not a big fan of spec racing for F1 - it does make for >> close >> racing, though. >> >> - Tony Drews >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 08:21:14 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Andre Rousseau'" , "'Terry Stetler'" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:20:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I doubt that adjusting driver salaries will do any good since some drivers actually pay the team for their seat. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Andre Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:47 AM To: Terry Stetler Cc: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Love GtL and GTR2 Was bombing around Mosport last night in a TR4! Did anyone suggest the drivers should makes less? Or all have a base salary and performance bonus. A Sent from my iPod Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 09:31:59 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:31:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Then the question bags to be asked. Why do teams like Toyota and Honda stand-by they and accept the poor performance of their teams when compared to Mac and Ferrari ;) In the end, we're spectators and not a whole lot we can do. I'll watch and yell my head off when my picked driver puts it into the wall... Right Kimi, who completely let me down this year. Come on Massa. I'm in my anyone, but Lewis modes. hehe A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 09:41:00 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Joe Curry" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 08:40:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Driver's salary is an illusion--almost all of them pay at least part for their seat through personal sponsorship. Lewis Hamilton is an exception, but there aren't many others. On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > I doubt that adjusting driver salaries will do any good since some > drivers > actually pay the team for their seat. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Andre Rousseau > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:47 AM > To: Terry Stetler > Cc: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > Love GtL and GTR2 > > Was bombing around Mosport last night in a TR4! > > Did anyone suggest the drivers should makes less? Or all have a base > salary and performance bonus. > > A > > Sent from my iPod > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 13:34:39 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Bill Babcock" , "Joe Curry" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:34:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 hours a day. Why? Wings and other little flipitts that reduce drag or create downforce. This then is causing the worst situation which is the passing from close quarters. Easy fix. Eliminate ALL wings. Wind tunnel time would be reduced 80% and passing and we'd have sliding cars to amusement of the fans. Brakes would be pressed to keep up with the top speed as the cars would be vastly faster down the chutes. The cars would also much cheaper to produce and the spares would not be necessary for $25,000 plus nose cones. But then of course you would not have the sign boards to display the sponsors name etc. But if they go away anyway, why not take the silly stubs and leafs and wings with them. Reduce the allowed telemetry and you save more engineer time and work force along with countless cost hours manufacturing all this junk. I've got more, but I see my soap box is splitting, so I will too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Joe Curry" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > Driver's salary is an illusion--almost all of them pay at least part > for their seat through personal sponsorship. Lewis Hamilton is an > exception, but there aren't many others. > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> I doubt that adjusting driver salaries will do any good since some >> drivers >> actually pay the team for their seat. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] >> On >> Behalf Of Andre Rousseau >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:47 AM >> To: Terry Stetler >> Cc: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> Love GtL and GTR2 >> >> Was bombing around Mosport last night in a TR4! >> >> Did anyone suggest the drivers should makes less? Or all have a base >> salary and performance bonus. >> >> A >> >> Sent from my iPod >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 13:46:48 2008 From: "Kramer, Robert" To: FOT List Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:46:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I generally avoid the F1 discussion so I may be completely off base here. We have a new track here in Texas that is loaded with off camber, down and side hill turns. They describe it as built to F1 standards. If they take off the wings and remove the downforce how will the cars stick on these types of tracks? I know it is a challenge without them! BK -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:34 PM To: Bill Babcock; Joe Curry Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 hours a day. Why? Wings and other little flipitts that reduce drag or create downforce. This then is causing the worst situation which is the passing from close quarters. Easy fix. Eliminate ALL wings. Wind tunnel time would be reduced 80% and passing and we'd have sliding cars to amusement of the fans. Brakes would be pressed to keep up with the top speed as the cars would be vastly faster down the chutes. The cars would also much cheaper to produce and the spares would not be necessary for $25,000 plus nose cones. But then of course you would not have the sign boards to display the sponsors name etc. But if they go away anyway, why not take the silly stubs and leafs and wings with them. Reduce the allowed telemetry and you save more engineer time and work force along with countless cost hours manufacturing all this junk. I've got more, but I see my soap box is splitting, so I will too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Joe Curry" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 14:16:26 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: "Kas Kastner" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:13:01 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 It seems that brakes and their ability to stand up to the immense heat they generate is already a critical limitation. Also, regarding the wings, when one is lost due to fatigue of the mounts or a brush with another car, the resulting loss of downforce is often enough for the driver to completely lose control of the car. Car? More like a guided missile at this point. STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Bill Babcock" ; "Joe Curry" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 > hours a day. Why? Wings and other little flipitts that reduce drag or > create downforce. This then is causing the worst situation which is the > passing from close quarters. Easy fix. Eliminate ALL wings. Wind tunnel > time would be reduced 80% and passing and we'd have sliding cars to > amusement of the fans. Brakes would be pressed to keep up with the top > speed as the cars would be vastly faster down the chutes. > > The cars would also much cheaper to produce and the spares would not be > necessary for $25,000 plus nose cones. But then of course you would not have > the sign boards to display the sponsors name etc. But if they go away > anyway, why not take the silly stubs and leafs and wings with them. Reduce > the allowed telemetry and you save more engineer time and work force along > with countless cost hours manufacturing all this junk. I've got more, but I > see my soap box is splitting, so I will too. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "Joe Curry" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > > > Driver's salary is an illusion--almost all of them pay at least part > > for their seat through personal sponsorship. Lewis Hamilton is an > > exception, but there aren't many others. > > > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > > > >> I doubt that adjusting driver salaries will do any good since some > >> drivers > >> actually pay the team for their seat. > >> > >> Joe C. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > >> On > >> Behalf Of Andre Rousseau > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:47 AM > >> To: Terry Stetler > >> Cc: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph > >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > >> > >> Love GtL and GTR2 > >> > >> Was bombing around Mosport last night in a TR4! > >> > >> Did anyone suggest the drivers should makes less? Or all have a base > >> salary and performance bonus. > >> > >> A > >> > >> Sent from my iPod > >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > >> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca > >> > > > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb@bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > > > Bill@kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 14:18:46 2008 From: michael cook To: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:18:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: State of F1 From: mlcooknj@msn.comTo: kaskas@cox.netSubject: RE: [Fot] State of F1Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:44:50 -0400 What Kas is talking about is what works for NASCAR when they run on road courses. Real racing with strong cars that don't depend on computers to drive them. I get tired of the oval track NASCAR parades but you'll find me glued to the set when they run at Infineon or the Glen. A lot of people seem to value F1 primarily for its advanced technology. Yet the high tech level is what has reduced the competition level. I watched a bunch of F1 races while Jaguar was "competing" and most of them were nap time. No wonder his soap box is splitting - there's two of us standing on it. Mike > From: kaskas@cox.net> To: Billb@bnj.com; spitlist@cox.net> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:34:16 -0700> CC: fot@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1> > Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 > hours a day. Why? Wings and other little flipitts that reduce drag or > create downforce. This then is causing the worst situation which is the > passing from close quarters. Easy fix. Eliminate ALL wings. Wind tunnel > time would be reduced 80% and passing and we'd have sliding cars to > amusement of the fans. Brakes would be pressed to keep up with the top > speed as the cars would be vastly faster down the chutes.> > The cars would also much cheaper to produce and the spares would not be > necessary for $25,000 plus nose cones. But then of course you would not have > the sign boards to display the sponsors name etc. But if they go away > anyway, why not take the silly stubs and leafs and wings with them. Reduce > the allowed telemetry and you save more engineer time and work force along > with countless cost hours manufacturing all this junk. I've got more, but I > see my soap box is splitting, so I will too.> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 14:25:36 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Steven Preiss" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:24:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Cars have been raced quite successfully without wings for over 80 years. And, there were spectacular races also. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Preiss" To: "Kas Kastner" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > It seems that brakes and their ability to stand up to the immense heat > they > generate is already a critical limitation. Also, regarding the wings, when > one is lost due to fatigue of the mounts or a brush with another car, the > resulting loss of downforce is often enough for the driver to completely > lose control of the car. Car? More like a guided missile at this point. > STeve P. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kas Kastner" > To: "Bill Babcock" ; "Joe Curry" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > >> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running > 24 >> hours a day. Why? Wings and other little flipitts that reduce drag or >> create downforce. This then is causing the worst situation which is the >> passing from close quarters. Easy fix. Eliminate ALL wings. Wind tunnel >> time would be reduced 80% and passing and we'd have sliding cars to >> amusement of the fans. Brakes would be pressed to keep up with the top >> speed as the cars would be vastly faster down the chutes. >> >> The cars would also much cheaper to produce and the spares would not be >> necessary for $25,000 plus nose cones. But then of course you would not > have >> the sign boards to display the sponsors name etc. But if they go away >> anyway, why not take the silly stubs and leafs and wings with them. >> Reduce >> the allowed telemetry and you save more engineer time and work force >> along >> with countless cost hours manufacturing all this junk. I've got more, but > I >> see my soap box is splitting, so I will too. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill Babcock" >> To: "Joe Curry" >> Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> >> > Driver's salary is an illusion--almost all of them pay at least part >> > for their seat through personal sponsorship. Lewis Hamilton is an >> > exception, but there aren't many others. >> > >> > On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >> > >> >> I doubt that adjusting driver salaries will do any good since some >> >> drivers >> >> actually pay the team for their seat. >> >> >> >> Joe C. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] >> >> On >> >> Behalf Of Andre Rousseau >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:47 AM >> >> To: Terry Stetler >> >> Cc: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> >> >> Love GtL and GTR2 >> >> >> >> Was bombing around Mosport last night in a TR4! >> >> >> >> Did anyone suggest the drivers should makes less? Or all have a base >> >> salary and performance bonus. >> >> >> >> A >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >> >> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >> >> >> > >> > Bill Babcock >> > Babcock & Jenkins >> > Billb@bnj.com >> > 503.936.7660 >> > www.bnj.com >> > >> > Editor >> > Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> > >> > Bill@kenalu.com >> > www.kenalu.com >> > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > http://www.fot-racing.com >> > >> > Fot mailing list >> > Fot@autox.team.net >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 14:32:23 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Kramer, Robert'" , "'FOT List'" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:32:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Will Bernie find that track acceptable for bring back an F1 race to the US of A? (I expect the answer to that question is: "Only if they pay him enough!" ) Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:47 PM To: FOT List Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I generally avoid the F1 discussion so I may be completely off base here. We have a new track here in Texas that is loaded with off camber, down and side hill turns. They describe it as built to F1 standards. If they take off the wings and remove the downforce how will the cars stick on these types of tracks? I know it is a challenge without them! BK -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:34 PM To: Bill Babcock; Joe Curry Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 hours a day. Why? Wings and other little flipitts that reduce drag or create downforce. This then is causing the worst situation which is the passing from close quarters. Easy fix. Eliminate ALL wings. Wind tunnel time would be reduced 80% and passing and we'd have sliding cars to amusement of the fans. Brakes would be pressed to keep up with the top speed as the cars would be vastly faster down the chutes. The cars would also much cheaper to produce and the spares would not be necessary for $25,000 plus nose cones. But then of course you would not have the sign boards to display the sponsors name etc. But if they go away anyway, why not take the silly stubs and leafs and wings with them. Reduce the allowed telemetry and you save more engineer time and work force along with countless cost hours manufacturing all this junk. I've got more, but I see my soap box is splitting, so I will too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Joe Curry" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 14:32:49 2008 From: George Harmuth To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:32:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Front shocks Hi all. I have a question for the brain trust here. I discovered a broken shock (off track incident) last weekend on my racing Spitfire so I'm looking for a new set of front shocks. The car originally had Konis but exact replacement of that model was priced way out of line. I've run Spax on all four corners for 2 years and I have no hesitation going back to another set but I thought I'd ask your collective opinion. One other brand I'm considering is GAZ. Anyone Pro's , Cons or Alternatives to these brands? thanks mike G. Michael Harmuth 63 Spit race car 72 Spit road car 71 & 77 Spits waiting for my attention _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 14:38:17 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'michael cook'" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:38:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: State of F1 While I can't say that I disagree with what you have said, I will have to point out that we already have a bunch of spec open-wheel series. What makes F1 unique is the (rather) openness of their rules. Closing those rules down is bound to render the series just another of many spec classes. If I want to watch a high power V* open wheel class I will watch Indy cars. But I find that ultimately much more boring than the worst F1 race. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of michael cook Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 1:19 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] FW: State of F1 From: mlcooknj@msn.comTo: kaskas@cox.netSubject: RE: [Fot] State of F1Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:44:50 -0400 What Kas is talking about is what works for NASCAR when they run on road courses. Real racing with strong cars that don't depend on computers to drive them. I get tired of the oval track NASCAR parades but you'll find me glued to the set when they run at Infineon or the Glen. A lot of people seem to value F1 primarily for its advanced technology. Yet the high tech level is what has reduced the competition level. I watched a bunch of F1 races while Jaguar was "competing" and most of them were nap time. No wonder his soap box is splitting - there's two of us standing on it. Mike > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 15:38:23 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: Bill Babcock , Joe Curry , Kas Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Group: Perhaps I'm a stranger bird than I thought, but, I haven't heard anyone showing a desire to see a totally unlimited or minimally regulated class of racing like the old Formula Libre. A real "run what you brung" type racing. Perhaps rule out telemetry and/or electronic driving aids so the driving talent can be seen and appreciated. True, money will always be a factor, but a great driver in an old design may still beat a bad driver in the most modern set-up. A great example of this would be the Formula Libre race at Lime Rock where Roger Ward beat everything the factories, including Ferrari, Maserati, and Jaguar had to offer with an Offy powered midget. Truly a function of the car/driver combination. I have been trying to discern whether he ran it with a multi-speed tranny or a simple in/out box which would really have showed his skills. This is the complete opposite of the (now defunct) IROC idea which has everyone running similarly prepped cars, chosen in a draw, to find the best driver. Anyone's thoughts on this? Kas, since you were running at that time, what were the opinions of the Formula back then. Am I just wishing for the good old days? -Ed- --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Kas Kastner wrote: From: Kas Kastner Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 To: "Bill Babcock" , "Joe Curry" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 2:34 PM Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 hours a day. Why? Wings and other little flipitts that reduce drag or create downforce. This then is causing the worst situation which is the passing from close quarters. Easy fix. Eliminate ALL wings. Wind tunnel time would be reduced 80% and passing and we'd have sliding cars to amusement of the fans. Brakes would be pressed to keep up with the top speed as the cars would be vastly faster down the chutes. The cars would also much cheaper to produce and the spares would not be necessary for $25,000 plus nose cones. But then of course you would not have the sign boards to display the sponsors name etc. But if they go away anyway, why not take the silly stubs and leafs and wings with them. Reduce the allowed telemetry and you save more engineer time and work force along with countless cost hours manufacturing all this junk. I've got more, but I see my soap box is splitting, so I will too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Joe Curry" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > Driver's salary is an illusion--almost all of them pay at least part > for their seat through personal sponsorship. Lewis Hamilton is an > exception, but there aren't many others. > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> I doubt that adjusting driver salaries will do any good since some >> drivers >> actually pay the team for their seat. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] >> On >> Behalf Of Andre Rousseau >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:47 AM >> To: Terry Stetler >> Cc: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> Love GtL and GTR2 >> >> Was bombing around Mosport last night in a TR4! >> >> Did anyone suggest the drivers should makes less? Or all have a base >> salary and performance bonus. >> >> A >> >> Sent from my iPod >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >> 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 15:39:11 2008 From: "Clark W. Nicholls" To: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:39:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: More PLN Subject: More PLN Guys, I now have 14 anecdotal stories about PLN up at www.speedstylemagazine.com And, I'm looking for more. If you have 'em, send 'em and any photos on to me and I'll update the section. It's to the left on the Home Page. Best Regards, Bill Moore (Editor/Publisher SpeedStyle) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1738 - Release Date: 10/22/2008 7:23 AM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 16:17:01 2008 From: Shane Ingate To: Kas Kastner , Friends of Triumph Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:16:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Kas wrote: > Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would have thought that today all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a computer. As Kas suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is dirt-cheap where an engineer can change model parameters and make the calculations within minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind tunnel. Many models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub-atomic interactions in the far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if non-linear models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 16:19:30 2008 From: "Terry Stetler" To: "Steven Preiss" , "Kas Kastner" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:19:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: Steven Preiss Cc: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Cars have been raced quite successfully without wings for over 80 years. And, there were spectacular races also. Thank you sir. The exact point of my original post. Although I still like the idea of a minimum engine stroke.... hehe. Terry Stetler _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 17:07:28 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Shane Ingate" , "Friends of Triumph" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:07:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 We had all the computer people we needed plus our own hardware and software engineers at NPTI, and the modeling worked just fine for fit and design and tooling but air is really different as we found in our wind tunnel. At that same time Williams F-1 sent all their stuff to a tunnel just twenty miles from us for proof that the modeling was correct. The tunnel also must have a moving ground plane or it's no go. BMW has two full size tunnels and for a good reason. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Ingate To: Kas Kastner ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Kas wrote:> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would have thought that today all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a computer. As Kas suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is dirt-cheap where an engineer can change model parameters and make the calculations within minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind tunnel.Many models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub-atomicinteractions in the far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if non-linear models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics.Shane Ingate in NM ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See how _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 19:15:59 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:15:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] help me re-subscribe hi gang..i dropped from the list when i went to florida for a week..will someone send me an email with the link to re-subscribe? thanks Racer Bud..spitfire #21 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 19:16:09 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Shane Ingate Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:16:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 They model the bejessus out of F1 cars, but flow is always chaotic at the macro level. You can't even really precisely model water flow through a pipe except as an ideal pipe. You can be very predictive about components and even interactions between components to a degree, but its not enough to really know what's going to happen. For that you can't beat a tunnel. And the tunnel has to have a lot of special characteristics. I know that even half-size models are viewed as a gross approximation. Only a full size model will do, and it needs to have steerable wheels, dynamic height front and back, and a rolling road before the data is considered truly useful. They also model (and wind-tunnel test) car to car interaction On Oct 22, 2008, at 3:16 PM, Shane Ingate wrote: > Kas wrote: >> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size >> running 24 >> hours a day. > > That's interesting. I would have thought that today all > aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a > computer. As Kas suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but > computer modeling is dirt-cheap where an engineer can change > model parameters and make the calculations within minutes > that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind tunnel. > > Many models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub-atomic > interactions in the far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be > surprised if non-linear models were used in the simple case of > aerodynamics. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 19:25:22 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Bill Babcock Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:25:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Hence the Honda flawed car... A. On 22-Oct-08, at 9:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > They model the bejessus out of F1 cars, but flow is always chaotic at > the macro level. You can't even really precisely model water flow > through a pipe except as an ideal pipe. You can be very predictive > about components and even interactions between components to a degree, > but its not enough to really know what's going to happen. For that you > can't beat a tunnel. And the tunnel has to have a lot of special > characteristics. I know that even half-size models are viewed as a > gross approximation. Only a full size model will do, and it needs to > have steerable wheels, dynamic height front and back, and a rolling > road before the data is considered truly useful. > > They also model (and wind-tunnel test) car to car interaction > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 3:16 PM, Shane Ingate wrote: > >> Kas wrote: >>> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full size >>> running 24 >>> hours a day. >> >> That's interesting. I would have thought that today all >> aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a >> computer. As Kas suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but >> computer modeling is dirt-cheap where an engineer can change >> model parameters and make the calculations within minutes >> that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind tunnel. >> >> Many models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub-atomic >> interactions in the far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be >> surprised if non-linear models were used in the simple case of >> aerodynamics. >> >> Shane Ingate in NM >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 19:28:53 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'Shane Ingate'" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:28:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much better if the teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself would be at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:16 PM To: Shane Ingate Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 They model the bejessus out of F1 cars, but flow is always chaotic at the macro level. You can't even really precisely model water flow through a pipe except as an ideal pipe. You can be very predictive about components and even interactions between components to a degree, but its not enough to really know what's going to happen. For that you can't beat a tunnel. And the tunnel has to have a lot of special characteristics. I know that even half-size models are viewed as a gross approximation. Only a full size model will do, and it needs to have steerable wheels, dynamic height front and back, and a rolling road before the data is considered truly useful. They also model (and wind-tunnel test) car to car interaction _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 19:42:05 2008 From: "David W. Riddle" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:42:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: >I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much better if the >teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself would be >at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren-f 1/ SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 Since were apparently all about covering the super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something cool. McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD supercomputing, storage and visualization equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The company has subsequently added to this investment in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing enhancements to) two further SGI Altix supercomputers, and the recent introduction of the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). No details on the computers purchased other than a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. Here is the Press Release from talking about it http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.htm l And a page at MCLaren too http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 20:31:39 2008 From: "David Talbott" To: "Kas Kastner" , "Shane Ingate" , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:31:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 This reminds me of a discussion with Benoit Mandelbrot on the NewsHour last night (in regard to rippling turbulence within the economy) during which he said: "The word "turbulence" is one which actually is common to physics and to social scientists, to economics. Everything which involves turbulence is enormously more complicated, not just a little bit more complicated, not just one year more schooling, just enormously more complicated." Mandelbrot, in addition to his mathematical fame (the "Father of Fractals"), originally studied aeronautical engineering and later worked in fluid dynamics, so if this cat still has trouble calculating turbulence, it's no wonder we haven't yet figured out how to model it on computers and we still need to mock it up to measure it. DT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Shane Ingate" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > We had all the computer people we needed plus our own hardware and > software > engineers at NPTI, and the modeling worked just fine for fit and design > and > tooling but air is really different as we found in our wind tunnel. > > At that same time Williams F-1 sent all their stuff to a tunnel just > twenty > miles from us for proof that the modeling was correct. The tunnel also > must > have a moving ground plane or it's no go. BMW has two full size tunnels > and > for a good reason. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Shane Ingate > To: Kas Kastner ; Friends of Triumph > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > > Kas wrote:> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full > size > running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would have thought that > today > all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a computer. As > Kas > suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is dirt-cheap > where an engineer can change model parameters and make the calculations > within > minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind > tunnel.Many > models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub-atomicinteractions in > the > far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if non-linear > models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics.Shane Ingate in NM > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See how > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 20:55:00 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "David W. Riddle" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:54:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Yesterday's supercomputer is todays PDI (built into your cell phone as a giveaway). I remember when a megabyte was a megabyte. the first serious database machine I bought was a Sperry IT with a 80286 and a 40 MB drive. Five K bux. This afternoon I tore apart one of my 1.5 terabyte drives because it had croaked. I wound up keeping one of the two 750GB drives out of the array and sticking it in a $39 enclosure, then I threw away the rest of the junk and bought a 2 TB drive at Fry's for $369. Two years ago a terabyte cost about a thousand bucks, four years ago it would have been about $5K, seven years ago I did a campaign for Tektronix about their new 1TB Profile--a raid array for storing video. The tab was about $50K. Current state of the art for even just your laptop is a dual quad Intel chip. Most of the software available can't really use it's capabilities. Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. The simplest approach is to guess at a whole bunch of answers and start processing each guess while the correct answer is computed, then toss away any processes based on the wrong guess. Massively wasteful but hey, it's just processor cycles. It really all comes down to software and the fundamental limitations of computing. Supercomputers just ain't that super. On Oct 22, 2008, at 6:42 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: >> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much >> better if the >> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself >> would be >> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. > > Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. > > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren-f > 1/ > > SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 > > Since were apparently all about covering the > super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something > cool. > > McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing > to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the > Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren > > appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD > supercomputing, storage and visualization > equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an > SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, > SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI > InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The > company has subsequently added to this investment > in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing > enhancements to) two further SGI Altix > supercomputers, and the recent introduction of > the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). > > No details on the computers purchased other than > a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. > > Here is the Press Release from talking about it > > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.htm > l > > And a page at MCLaren too > > http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 21:08:00 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "David Talbott" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:07:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Yes indeed. I'm serious about not being able to accurately mathematically model flow in a pipe. Just a plain old straight pipe. Once the flow departs from pure laminar into turbulence it becomes impossible to calculate. In real life experiments some components of turbulent flow are moving backwards. If you think about it for just a second that becomes obvious. Lots of stuff can't be reliably modeled. Departure from nucleate boiling to film boiling in a nuclear plant for instance. Endless work on the supercomputers of the day--lots of Crays. In the end the problem was deemed "intractable" which is expensive engineering lingo for "beats the sh*t out of me". The final determination was "stay ten percent under the critical heat flux for departure from nucleate boiling". Hell, I could have told them that. On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:31 PM, David Talbott wrote: > This reminds me of a discussion with Benoit Mandelbrot on the > NewsHour last > night (in regard to rippling turbulence within the economy) during > which he > said: > > "The word "turbulence" is one which actually is common to physics > and to > social scientists, to economics. Everything which involves > turbulence is > enormously more complicated, not just a little bit more complicated, > not > just one year more schooling, just enormously more complicated." > > Mandelbrot, in addition to his mathematical fame (the "Father of > Fractals"), > originally studied aeronautical engineering and later worked in fluid > dynamics, so if this cat still has trouble calculating turbulence, > it's no > wonder we haven't yet figured out how to model it on computers and > we still > need to mock it up to measure it. > > DT > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: "Shane Ingate" ; "Friends of Triumph" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > >> We had all the computer people we needed plus our own hardware and >> software >> engineers at NPTI, and the modeling worked just fine for fit and >> design >> and >> tooling but air is really different as we found in our wind tunnel. >> >> At that same time Williams F-1 sent all their stuff to a tunnel just >> twenty >> miles from us for proof that the modeling was correct. The tunnel >> also >> must >> have a moving ground plane or it's no go. BMW has two full size >> tunnels >> and >> for a good reason. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Shane Ingate >> To: Kas Kastner ; Friends of Triumph >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> >> Kas wrote:> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two >> full >> size >> running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would have thought >> that >> today >> all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a >> computer. As >> Kas >> suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is dirt- >> cheap >> where an engineer can change model parameters and make the >> calculations >> within >> minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind >> tunnel.Many >> models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub- >> atomicinteractions in >> the >> far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if non- >> linear >> models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics.Shane Ingate in >> NM >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. >> See how >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 22:11:01 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'David W. Riddle'" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:10:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Just as Personal Computers grow an order of magnitude every 2 years, so do super computers. Yes, the PCs of today eclipse super computers of the 90's, the first moon lander had less computing power than most high school calculators do today. But you are right, it is all in the software. The more power you have to work with from the hardware, better the software can be and the faster and more precise are your results. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:55 PM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Yesterday's supercomputer is todays PDI (built into your cell phone as a giveaway). I remember when a megabyte was a megabyte. the first serious database machine I bought was a Sperry IT with a 80286 and a 40 MB drive. Five K bux. This afternoon I tore apart one of my 1.5 terabyte drives because it had croaked. I wound up keeping one of the two 750GB drives out of the array and sticking it in a $39 enclosure, then I threw away the rest of the junk and bought a 2 TB drive at Fry's for $369. Two years ago a terabyte cost about a thousand bucks, four years ago it would have been about $5K, seven years ago I did a campaign for Tektronix about their new 1TB Profile--a raid array for storing video. The tab was about $50K. Current state of the art for even just your laptop is a dual quad Intel chip. Most of the software available can't really use it's capabilities. Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. The simplest approach is to guess at a whole bunch of answers and start processing each guess while the correct answer is computed, then toss away any processes based on the wrong guess. Massively wasteful but hey, it's just processor cycles. It really all comes down to software and the fundamental limitations of computing. Supercomputers just ain't that super. On Oct 22, 2008, at 6:42 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: >> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much >> better if the >> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself >> would be >> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. > > Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. > > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren- f > 1/ > > SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 > > Since were apparently all about covering the > super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something > cool. > > McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing > to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the > Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren > > appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD > supercomputing, storage and visualization > equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an > SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, > SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI > InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The > company has subsequently added to this investment > in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing > enhancements to) two further SGI Altix > supercomputers, and the recent introduction of > the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). > > No details on the computers purchased other than > a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. > > Here is the Press Release from talking about it > > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.ht m > l > > And a page at MCLaren too > > http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 22:38:22 2008 From: "Jim" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:37:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Ed, What you describe sounds like several of the recent racing efforts. Despite the rules.. most teams find ways to work around them. Causing the other teams to toss more $$ (or their native currency) at the problem... Or to concede defeat and bow out. Can Am went that route and it looked good.. until Porsche dropped the 917K on the competition. IMSA GTP tried a similar formula... and in it's last years we had first a Nissan domintation (which I cheered for at Daytona in 1991 ;) then a Toyota domination. There are some drivers that do well only in a tightly controlled setting.. And others who shine no matter what the machine. I still miss seeing Al Holbert drive. Despite all the handicaps put on the 962s, the Lowenbrau team was always a contender in the early days of IMSA. Right before the plane crashed in '88 he was talking about a transmission setup to let him shift under load to keep the boost up on the 962s. Don't know if it was just talk or something real in the pipeline. My brothers were fans of his team, and knew Chip Robinson from the next town over from where we grew up. I guess Kas probably remembers Chip.. be interesting to hear his views, offline. Still, Mr Holbert basically put the nail in the coffin on the Group 44 Jag effort. Still the prettiest GTP cars ('83/'84 vintage) I've ever seen. But back to Ed's concept. Nascar is basically IROC for rednecks. IRL... Same idea for educated rednecks. F1? Snooty european rednecks? Is there such an animal? ;) Anyway, this makes a great diversion from changing diapers. Cheers, Jim Dallas... sometimes -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:38 PM To: Bill Babcock; Joe Curry; KasKastner Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Group: Perhaps I'm a stranger bird than I thought, but, I haven't heard anyone showing a desire to see a totally unlimited or minimally regulated class of racing like the old Formula Libre. A real "run what you brung" type racing. Perhaps rule out telemetry and/or electronic driving aids so the driving talent can be seen and appreciated. True, money will always be a factor, but a great driver in an old design may still beat a bad driver in the most modern set-up. A great example of this would be the Formula Libre race at Lime Rock where Roger Ward beat everything the factories, including Ferrari, Maserati, and Jaguar had to offer with an Offy powered midget. Truly a function of the car/driver combination. I have been trying to discern whether he ran it with a multi-speed tranny or a simple in/out box which would really have showed his skills. This is the complete opposite of the (now defunct) IROC idea which has everyone running similarly prepped cars, chosen in a draw, to find the best driver. Anyone's thoughts on this? Kas, since you were running at that time, what were the opinions of the Formula back then. Am I just wishing for the good old days? -Ed- ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s80Zzw2ixP2yFWMgJrQMlzi NDE2JHj02d2efvkEjoAeXPWy/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 06:32:47 2008 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: Billb@bnj.com, dtalbott@archrepro.com Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:32:23 EDT Subject: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Good Morning What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are going down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive modifications to take place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a Spitfire or TR6 in vintage racing? It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage groups wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true appearance of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement panels to look like pre 1972 cars. I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are not instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, our engines are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the 1970s and earlier. Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. Baseball Dad **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 06:45:45 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:45:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what ever it costs to win. What's next acid dipping of the bodies? Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start with myself. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada 2008/10/23 > Good Morning > > What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are going > down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive modifications to > take > place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a Spitfire or TR6 > in > vintage racing? > > It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage groups > wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true > appearance > of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement panels > to > look like pre 1972 cars. > > I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are not > instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, our > engines > are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the 1970s and > earlier. > > Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. > > Baseball Dad _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 07:45:16 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Andre Rousseau" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:45:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing What makes you think bodies aren't already acid dipped? I'm working on that "personal lightening program"--have a weight bet going with my brother. Actually I think the most serious problem in vintage racing is more that the valuable cars can't be changed much--it would decrease their sky-high value--while specials and production racers can skirt the edge of the rulebook. That means there isn't a testarossa on the planet that can stay with Peyote, which is both silly and sad. We don't get to see them on track very often anymore-- they are too valuable to risk and the owners don't like getting hammered by cars they should be able to romp over. I don't know how to fix that. Making Peyote slow won't change anything but the finish order at a few races. All the fast triumphs are rulebook-legal, more or less. Or could be without putting a serious dent in their lap times. The worst anyone is doing is running 89mm bores, and that's a tweak--not really worth much--you can get nearly the same horsepower with a 87. Pandoras box is knowledge, we all know how to make a car fast, we all have access to the learning of the last 50 years, and it goes into our cars, while testarossas are stuck in time. Of course if I had a TR the first thing I'd do would be to make a replica of the frame, only in titanium, and a carbon fibre body. Then... On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what > ever it > costs to win. > > What's next acid dipping of the bodies? > > Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start with > myself. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > 2008/10/23 > >> Good Morning >> >> What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are >> going >> down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive >> modifications to >> take >> place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a >> Spitfire or TR6 >> in >> vintage racing? >> >> It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage >> groups >> wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true >> appearance >> of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement >> panels >> to >> look like pre 1972 cars. >> >> I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications >> are not >> instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, >> our >> engines >> are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the >> 1970s and >> earlier. >> >> Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. >> >> Baseball Dad > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 07:57:41 2008 From: Larry Young To: David Talbott Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:57:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Any decent model of turbulence is going to be highly nonlinear and will require many "adjustable parameters". Most models these days can be reasonably accurate if its parameters are "tuned" with real data. So the scenario would be wind tunnel > model > wind tunnel > model ............ The model can save wind tunnel time, but not replace it. Larry David Talbott wrote: > This reminds me of a discussion with Benoit Mandelbrot on the NewsHour > last > night (in regard to rippling turbulence within the economy) during > which he > said: > > "The word "turbulence" is one which actually is common to physics and to > social scientists, to economics. Everything which involves turbulence is > enormously more complicated, not just a little bit more complicated, not > just one year more schooling, just enormously more complicated." > > Mandelbrot, in addition to his mathematical fame (the "Father of > Fractals"), > originally studied aeronautical engineering and later worked in fluid > dynamics, so if this cat still has trouble calculating turbulence, > it's no > wonder we haven't yet figured out how to model it on computers and we > still > need to mock it up to measure it. > > DT _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:14:27 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Bill Babcock" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:14:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing You forgot to recast the block in aluminium. Maybe this can't be controlled. So maybe an option is to further sub-divid the classes? - Show room stock class - Semi prepped class - Your richer then smarter class And let people run what you brung. Kinda like the slicks and wings class at Mosport, you get a mix from low end neat ideas to full out ex F1 cars. Its a mad mad world. A. 2008/10/23 Bill Babcock > What makes you think bodies aren't already acid dipped? I'm working on that > "personal lightening program"--have a weight bet going with my brother. > Actually I think the most serious problem in vintage racing is more that the > valuable cars can't be changed much--it would decrease their sky-high > value--while specials and production racers can skirt the edge of the > rulebook. That means there isn't a testarossa on the planet that can stay > with Peyote, which is both silly and sad. We don't get to see them on track > very often anymore--they are too valuable to risk and the owners don't like > getting hammered by cars they should be able to romp over. > I don't know how to fix that. Making Peyote slow won't change anything but > the finish order at a few races. All the fast triumphs are rulebook-legal, > more or less. Or could be without putting a serious dent in their lap times. > The worst anyone is doing is running 89mm bores, and that's a tweak--not > really worth much--you can get nearly the same horsepower with a 87. > Pandoras box is knowledge, we all know how to make a car fast, we all have > access to the learning of the last 50 years, and it goes into our cars, > while testarossas are stuck in time. > > Of course if I had a TR the first thing I'd do would be to make a replica > of the frame, only in titanium, and a carbon fibre body. Then... > On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > > I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what ever it > costs to win. > > What's next acid dipping of the bodies? > > Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start with > myself. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > 2008/10/23 > > Good Morning > > > What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are going > > down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive modifications to > > take > > place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a Spitfire or TR6 > > in > > vintage racing? > > > It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage groups > > wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true > > appearance > > of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement panels > > to > > look like pre 1972 cars. > > > I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are not > > instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, our > > engines > > are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the 1970s and > > earlier. > > > Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. > > > Baseball Dad > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > * > * > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:17:28 2008 From: michael cook To: Bill Babcock , Andre Rousseau Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:17:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing So the discussion, once again, is about two things: The spirit of vintage racing and competing to win. Competing seems to win every time. Mike Cook> From: Billb@bnj.com> To: andre@gt6.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:45:04 -0700> CC: fot@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing> > What makes you think bodies aren't already acid dipped? I'm working on > that "personal lightening program"--have a weight bet going with my > brother. Actually I think the most serious problem in vintage racing > is more that the valuable cars can't be changed much--it would > decrease their sky-high value--while specials and production racers > can skirt the edge of the rulebook. That means there isn't a > testarossa on the planet that can stay with Peyote, which is both > silly and sad. We don't get to see them on track very often anymore-- > they are too valuable to risk and the owners don't like getting > hammered by cars they should be able to romp over.> > I don't know how to fix that. Making Peyote slow won't change anything > but the finish order at a few races. All the fast triumphs are > rulebook-legal, more or less. Or could be without putting a serious > dent in their lap times. The worst anyone is doing is running 89mm > bores, and that's a tweak--not really worth much--you can get nearly > the same horsepower with a 87. Pandoras box is knowledge, we all know > how to make a car fast, we all have access to the learning of the last > 50 years, and it goes into our cars, while testarossas are stuck in > time.> > Of course if I had a TR the first thing I'd do would be to make a > replica of the frame, only in titanium, and a carbon fibre body. Then...> On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote:> > > I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what > > ever it> > costs to win.> >> > What's next acid dipping of the bodies?> >> > Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start with> > myself.> >> > A.> >> > -- > > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca> > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/> > Ottawa, ON, Canada> >> > 2008/10/23 > >> >> Good Morning> >>> >> What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are > >> going> >> down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive > >> modifications to> >> take> >> place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a > >> Spitfire or TR6> >> in> >> vintage racing?> >>> >> It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage > >> groups> >> wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true> >> appearance> >> of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement > >> panels> >> to> >> look like pre 1972 cars.> >>> >> I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications > >> are not> >> instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, > >> our> >> engines> >> are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the > >> 1970s and> >> earlier.> >>> >> Vintage may be making itself too expensive too.> >>> >> Baseball Dad> > _______________________________________________> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > http://www.fot-racing.com> >> > Fot mailing list> > Fot@autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> >> > Bill Babcock> Babcock & Jenkins> Billb@bnj.com> 503.936.7660> www.bnj.com> > Editor> Ke Nalu e-Magazine> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal> > Bill@kenalu.com> www.kenalu.com> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:19:17 2008 From: Larry Young To: Bill Babcock Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:19:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 PC's are already about as fast serially as a supercomputer, so the only answer is massively parallel. This makes programming a nightmare except for problems that are huge and easily split into many separate unrelated tasks. CFD is not one of them. I remember back in the early 90s I would hear every year "This is the Year for Parallel Computing". I don't think is will ever happen. Bill Babcock wrote: > Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial > sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel > than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, > and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:22:48 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Andre Rousseau" , "Friends of Triumph" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:22:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing that's a good one...one of my other sports is road bicycling...some people spend 55.00 for a carbon fiber water bottle holder to save a couple of ounces...that's logical if the human body portion of the vehicle is down to minimum weight also..Rotating mass is a different story though Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 5:45 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing >I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what ever it > costs to win. > > What's next acid dipping of the bodies? > > Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start with > myself. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > 2008/10/23 > >> Good Morning >> >> What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are going >> down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive modifications >> to >> take >> place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a Spitfire or >> TR6 >> in >> vintage racing? >> >> It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage >> groups >> wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true >> appearance >> of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement >> panels >> to >> look like pre 1972 cars. >> >> I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are not >> instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, our >> engines >> are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the 1970s and >> earlier. >> >> Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. >> >> Baseball Dad > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:26:10 2008 From: DSPGTi@aol.com To: Billb@bnj.com, andre@gt6.ca Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:23:57 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I'm starting to rethink the Vintage Racing thing. Last weekend was a 3 day, triple SCCA Regional Race at NJMP Lightning course. Besides having a great time running in my own group of IT, it was cool to watch Joe B. whoop up on the E/Prod field with his TR3. He won the first race overall while the usually faster Datsun Z cars and a former GTP Dodge Daytona failed to finish. Joe won all the E/P races and Dave Miller had a respectable showing in his TR4. To me, Joe's car looks more the part of a vintage racer, flares, air dam, slicks and all, than some of the current show quality vintage race cars. Dave's TR4 would pass any Vintage test except for the slicks sticking out of the stock steel fenders. So I'm thinking? Save my virgin steel fenders and panels, replace with all fiberglass and go racing with my TR4 on any track I want. By the time I'm ready for vintage, My fiberglass and slicks will be allowed. Right! Dave Y. **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:33:51 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Andre Rousseau" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:33:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Actually I think Testarossas have aluminum blocks. Enzo was allergic to cast iron. Mosport sets it's own limits. I'd like wings, slicks and an ejection seat. On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:14 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > You forgot to recast the block in aluminium. > Maybe this can't be controlled. > > So maybe an option is to further sub-divid the classes? > > - Show room stock class > - Semi prepped class > - Your richer then smarter class > > And let people run what you brung. > > Kinda like the slicks and wings class at Mosport, you get a mix from > low end > neat ideas to full out ex F1 cars. > > Its a mad mad world. > > A. > > > > > > 2008/10/23 Bill Babcock > >> What makes you think bodies aren't already acid dipped? I'm working >> on that >> "personal lightening program"--have a weight bet going with my >> brother. >> Actually I think the most serious problem in vintage racing is more >> that the >> valuable cars can't be changed much--it would decrease their sky-high >> value--while specials and production racers can skirt the edge of the >> rulebook. That means there isn't a testarossa on the planet that >> can stay >> with Peyote, which is both silly and sad. We don't get to see them >> on track >> very often anymore--they are too valuable to risk and the owners >> don't like >> getting hammered by cars they should be able to romp over. >> I don't know how to fix that. Making Peyote slow won't change >> anything but >> the finish order at a few races. All the fast triumphs are rulebook- >> legal, >> more or less. Or could be without putting a serious dent in their >> lap times. >> The worst anyone is doing is running 89mm bores, and that's a >> tweak--not >> really worth much--you can get nearly the same horsepower with a 87. >> Pandoras box is knowledge, we all know how to make a car fast, we >> all have >> access to the learning of the last 50 years, and it goes into our >> cars, >> while testarossas are stuck in time. >> >> Of course if I had a TR the first thing I'd do would be to make a >> replica >> of the frame, only in titanium, and a carbon fibre body. Then... >> On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: >> >> I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what >> ever it >> costs to win. >> >> What's next acid dipping of the bodies? >> >> Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start with >> myself. >> >> A. >> >> -- >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >> Ottawa, ON, Canada >> >> 2008/10/23 >> >> Good Morning >> >> >> What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are >> going >> >> down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive >> modifications to >> >> take >> >> place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a >> Spitfire or TR6 >> >> in >> >> vintage racing? >> >> >> It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage >> groups >> >> wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true >> >> appearance >> >> of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement >> panels >> >> to >> >> look like pre 1972 cars. >> >> >> I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are >> not >> >> instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, >> our >> >> engines >> >> are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the >> 1970s and >> >> earlier. >> >> >> Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. >> >> >> Baseball Dad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* >> * >> * >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:36:12 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:36:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Now, correct me if I'm worn, but no one wins money at the end of the day right? So the only investment should be in yourself. I know some people can't accept running in the back of the pack, (I probably fit that bill) For me the ideal "sprit" of vintage racing would be to have a successful weekend. IE run all weekend long and come home with the car and huge ass smile. I don't even race, but the above applied to me after the glen.' In-fact I was almost depressed thinking about the fact I was on such a high and it will take yrs to develop the "racing" dream. a. 2008/10/23 RACER BUD > that's a good one...one of my other sports is road bicycling...some people > spend 55.00 for a carbon fiber water bottle holder to save a couple of > ounces...that's logical if the human body portion of the vehicle is down to > minimum weight also..Rotating mass is a different story though > Racer Bud _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:41:34 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: Group44TR7@aol.com, Billb@bnj.com, dtalbott@archrepro.com Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:41:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing There was a group at the 2nd half of the pack at Watkins Glen who enjoyed themselves immensely. TR3 TR4 TR6 were all represented. Maybe this concept will catch on. In fact I think it has. We can influence this among ourselves...of course we dont have to have any more rules and regulations to do this. And I can still appreciate those with cash and talent who want to go faster. >Good Morning > > What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are going >down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive modifications to take >place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a Spitfire or TR6 in >vintage racing? > > It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage groups >wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true appearance >of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement panels to >look like pre 1972 cars. > > I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are not >instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, our engines >are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the 1970s and >earlier. > > Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. > >Baseball Dad > > > > > > > > > >**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy >steps! >(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf >ooter) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:48:00 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: michael cook Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:47:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I think that's kind of automatic. Look at the kind of people who race anything (cars, bikes, skateboards, pogosticks, stand up paddle boards), and the people who sit on the sidelines. We all have different levels of addiction, but we're all junkies. On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:17 AM, michael cook wrote: > So the discussion, once again, is about two things: The spirit of > vintage racing and competing to win. > > Competing seems to win every time. > > Mike Cook > > > From: Billb@bnj.com > > To: andre@gt6.ca > > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:45:04 -0700 > > CC: fot@autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > > > > What makes you think bodies aren't already acid dipped? I'm > working on > > that "personal lightening program"--have a weight bet going with my > > brother. Actually I think the most serious problem in vintage racing > > is more that the valuable cars can't be changed much--it would > > decrease their sky-high value--while specials and production racers > > can skirt the edge of the rulebook. That means there isn't a > > testarossa on the planet that can stay with Peyote, which is both > > silly and sad. We don't get to see them on track very often > anymore-- > > they are too valuable to risk and the owners don't like getting > > hammered by cars they should be able to romp over. > > > > I don't know how to fix that. Making Peyote slow won't change > anything > > but the finish order at a few races. All the fast triumphs are > > rulebook-legal, more or less. Or could be without putting a serious > > dent in their lap times. The worst anyone is doing is running 89mm > > bores, and that's a tweak--not really worth much--you can get nearly > > the same horsepower with a 87. Pandoras box is knowledge, we all > know > > how to make a car fast, we all have access to the learning of the > last > > 50 years, and it goes into our cars, while testarossas are stuck in > > time. > > > > Of course if I had a TR the first thing I'd do would be to make a > > replica of the frame, only in titanium, and a carbon fibre body. > Then... > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > > > > > I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do > what > > > ever it > > > costs to win. > > > > > > What's next acid dipping of the bodies? > > > > > > Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start > with > > > myself. > > > > > > A. > > > > > > -- > > > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > > > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > > > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > > > > > 2008/10/23 > > > > > >> Good Morning > > >> > > >> What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are > > >> going > > >> down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive > > >> modifications to > > >> take > > >> place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a > > >> Spitfire or TR6 > > >> in > > >> vintage racing? > > >> > > >> It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage > > >> groups > > >> wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the > true > > >> appearance > > >> of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar > replacement > > >> panels > > >> to > > >> look like pre 1972 cars. > > >> > > >> I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications > > >> are not > > >> instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person > here, > > >> our > > >> engines > > >> are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the > > >> 1970s and > > >> earlier. > > >> > > >> Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. > > >> > > >> Baseball Dad > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > > > Fot mailing list > > > Fot@autox.team.net > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb@bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > > > Bill@kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:50:59 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Larry Young Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:50:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves what happens to them". On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Larry Young wrote: > PC's are already about as fast serially as a supercomputer, so the > only answer is massively parallel. This makes programming a > nightmare except for problems that are huge and easily split into > many separate unrelated tasks. CFD is not one of them. I remember > back in the early 90s I would hear every year "This is the Year for > Parallel Computing". I don't think is will ever happen. > > Bill Babcock wrote: >> Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial >> sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel >> than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, >> and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. >> Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 08:58:13 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: DSPGTi@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:56:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I really enjoy SCCA races, except they usually have no social aspect. Go, race, go home. I plan to do a lot of them next year with the Ambro while I'm getting it dialed in. Even better around here are the ICSSC races. Hugely informal, whacky cars, including a wood-bodied sports racer that looks like it was built by a sixth grade shop class and is a rolling chicane. They have the best drivers schools around--and a real bargain. I take one every few years, always learn a ton. On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:23 AM, DSPGTi@aol.com wrote: > I'm starting to rethink the Vintage Racing thing. Last weekend was a > 3 day, triple SCCA Regional Race at NJMP Lightning course. Besides > having a great time running in my own group of IT, it was cool to > watch Joe B. whoop up on the E/Prod field with his TR3. He won the > first race overall while the usually faster Datsun Z cars and a > former GTP Dodge Daytona failed to finish. Joe won all the E/P races > and Dave Miller had a respectable showing in his TR4. To me, Joe's > car looks more the part of a vintage racer, flares, air dam, slicks > and all, than some of the current show quality vintage race cars. > Dave's TR4 would pass any Vintage test except for the slicks > sticking out of the stock steel fenders. > > So I'm thinking? Save my virgin steel fenders and panels, replace > with all fiberglass and go racing with my TR4 on any track I want. > By the time I'm ready for vintage, My fiberglass and slicks will be > allowed. Right! > > Dave Y. > > > > Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no > registration required and great graphics  check it out! Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 09:19:32 2008 From: "David W. Riddle" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:20:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 At 07:50 AM 10/23/2008, Bill Babcock wrote: >I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George >Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way >back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves >what happens to them". There's a name from the wayback machine. I have two systems on a shelf in the garage that run CP/M. A Victor 9000 that an Uncle of mine designed. Runs both CP/M 86 and MS-DOS. The 5 MB hard drive in one of them is running MS-DOS 1.25j. Maybe a Vintage Processing class? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 09:45:36 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "David W. Riddle" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:45:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I have an Osborne 1 blocking part of the stairway to my shop. All the rest of my ancient hardware went to the dump long ago. The Osborne still works (if you can call it that). On Oct 23, 2008, at 8:20 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > At 07:50 AM 10/23/2008, Bill Babcock wrote: >> I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George >> Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way >> back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves >> what happens to them". > > There's a name from the wayback machine. I have two systems on a > shelf in the garage that run CP/M. A Victor 9000 that an Uncle of > mine designed. Runs both CP/M 86 and MS-DOS. The 5 MB hard drive > in one of them is running MS-DOS 1.25j. Maybe a Vintage Processing > class? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 10:14:40 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'Larry Young'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:14:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Here's the "Rub"! Every time computer hardware takes a leap in technology, it is followed by a quick response from the programmers with crappy and wasteful programming techniques. So what has happened over the years is that the speed stays about the same. "Intel giveth and Microsoft taketh away"! The purest form of programming is machine language. But today the only things written in machine code are higher lever programming languages. The application software becomes layers upon layers of various application and driver software programs leading to a large scale of inefficiency. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:51 AM To: Larry Young Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves what happens to them". On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Larry Young wrote: _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 10:21:12 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'David W. Riddle'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:20:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Did anybody out there have a Texas Instruments Home Computer (99/4)? I wrote the Technical Reference manual for that product back in 1979. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:45 AM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I have an Osborne 1 blocking part of the stairway to my shop. All the rest of my ancient hardware went to the dump long ago. The Osborne still works (if you can call it that). On Oct 23, 2008, at 8:20 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > At 07:50 AM 10/23/2008, Bill Babcock wrote: >> I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George >> Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way >> back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves >> what happens to them". > > There's a name from the wayback machine. I have two systems on a > shelf in the garage that run CP/M. A Victor 9000 that an Uncle of > mine designed. Runs both CP/M 86 and MS-DOS. The 5 MB hard drive > in one of them is running MS-DOS 1.25j. Maybe a Vintage Processing > class? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 10:29:27 2008 From: westerneagleracing@att.net To: Bill Babcock Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:29:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing FOT Great comments on the state of vintage racing. I race both SCCA (Spec Ford so not too many modifications but sometimes a contact sport) and Vintage (TR-4A can be real racing without contact). I am also running for the Board of CSRG and while I doubt that there will ever be a consensus I'd like to hear more comments on the state of vintage racing. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from Bill Babcock : -------------- > Actually I think Testarossas have aluminum blocks. Enzo was allergic > to cast iron. > > Mosport sets it's own limits. I'd like wings, slicks and an ejection > seat. > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:14 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > > > You forgot to recast the block in aluminium. > > Maybe this can't be controlled. > > > > So maybe an option is to further sub-divid the classes? > > > > - Show room stock class > > - Semi prepped class > > - Your richer then smarter class > > > > And let people run what you brung. > > > > Kinda like the slicks and wings class at Mosport, you get a mix from > > low end > > neat ideas to full out ex F1 cars. > > > > Its a mad mad world. > > > > A. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/10/23 Bill Babcock > > > >> What makes you think bodies aren't already acid dipped? I'm working > >> on that > >> "personal lightening program"--have a weight bet going with my > >> brother. > >> Actually I think the most serious problem in vintage racing is more > >> that the > >> valuable cars can't be changed much--it would decrease their sky-high > >> value--while specials and production racers can skirt the edge of the > >> rulebook. That means there isn't a testarossa on the planet that > >> can stay > >> with Peyote, which is both silly and sad. We don't get to see them > >> on track > >> very often anymore--they are too valuable to risk and the owners > >> don't like > >> getting hammered by cars they should be able to romp over. > >> I don't know how to fix that. Making Peyote slow won't change > >> anything but > >> the finish order at a few races. All the fast triumphs are rulebook- > >> legal, > >> more or less. Or could be without putting a serious dent in their > >> lap times. > >> The worst anyone is doing is running 89mm bores, and that's a > >> tweak--not > >> really worth much--you can get nearly the same horsepower with a 87. > >> Pandoras box is knowledge, we all know how to make a car fast, we > >> all have > >> access to the learning of the last 50 years, and it goes into our > >> cars, > >> while testarossas are stuck in time. > >> > >> Of course if I had a TR the first thing I'd do would be to make a > >> replica > >> of the frame, only in titanium, and a carbon fibre body. Then... > >> On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > >> > >> I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what > >> ever it > >> costs to win. > >> > >> What's next acid dipping of the bodies? > >> > >> Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start with > >> myself. > >> > >> A. > >> > >> -- > >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > >> Ottawa, ON, Canada > >> > >> 2008/10/23 > >> > >> Good Morning > >> > >> > >> What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are > >> going > >> > >> down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive > >> modifications to > >> > >> take > >> > >> place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a > >> Spitfire or TR6 > >> > >> in > >> > >> vintage racing? > >> > >> > >> It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage > >> groups > >> > >> wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true > >> > >> appearance > >> > >> of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement > >> panels > >> > >> to > >> > >> look like pre 1972 cars. > >> > >> > >> I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are > >> not > >> > >> instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, > >> our > >> > >> engines > >> > >> are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the > >> 1970s and > >> > >> earlier. > >> > >> > >> Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. > >> > >> > >> Baseball Dad > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> http://www.fot-racing.com > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot@autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >> > >> > >> Bill Babcock > >> Babcock & Jenkins > >> Billb@bnj.com > >> 503.936.7660 > >> www.bnj.com > >> > >> Editor > >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine > >> *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > >> * > >> * > >> Bill@kenalu.com > >> www.kenalu.com > >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 10:39:48 2008 From: "Randall" To: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:39:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > The purest form of programming is machine language. But > today the only things written in machine code are higher > lever programming languages. The application software > becomes layers upon layers of various application and driver > software programs leading to a large scale of inefficiency. That's very true. However, there is also a very good reason for it. It takes many many man-hours to create any significant program in hand-tweaked assembly code; and these days no one is willing to pay for that kind of craftsmanship or wait for the time it takes. Using higher level languages and other "inefficient" techniques can cut development time by a factor of 10! The market is ruled by who gets there first, not who gets there with the best code (otherwise Microsoft would have gone belly-up years ago). And we won't even talk about the impossibility of maintaining that carefully crafted assembly language; which is basically what killed Lotus 1-2-3. Randall - who does still very occasionally code in assembly language _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 10:52:42 2008 From: "Robert Johns" To: "FOT team" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:48:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 FYI - Response from a retired Aeronautical Engineer friend of mine that I shared your interesting, the state of F1, conversation. Thought you might appreciate his words on the subject. Bob Johns ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory Foster To: Robert Johns Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 Aero and hydro dynamics are always interesting subjects which I could talk at length on because I spent the last 15 years of my career dealing with them when we were building high speed underwater vehicles. Also since my hobby is flying sailplanes, it is a constant topic of conversation along with "secret" airfoils and "secret" wing finishes to either eliminate or at least carefully control transitions from laminar to turbulent flow. Most of it is BS but some is not. A recent development suggests there may be a new one coming along. see http://www.standardcirrus.org/ A technique used in gliders is to smear used crankcase oil that is good and black along a 2 foot section of a wing and then go fly the plane and see how the oil streaked off the wing. The location ( cordwise) of any transition to turbulent airflow is very visible in the remaining oil smears. Then we know where to place strips of "deturbulator" tapes. I have been through several classes on turbulence including the Mendelbrot techniques discussed in the Fot. He is a math genius and his theories of "Chaos", when applied to turbulence result in very strange phenomenal (in theory). As a personal hobby project I tried very hard to apply some of his theory to stock market analysis (if that isn't chaos, what is?) and it will take someone smarter than I am to produce something useful. I could show that his theory applies to the market but I wanted a form of predictor and failed to get such a result. It is called "looking for a "strange" attractor". The word strange has a definite, specific meaning in his theory. Greg --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Robert Johns wrote: From: Robert Johns Subject: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 To: "Greg Foster" Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 7:33 AM FUI Interesting conversation on computer modeling. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:38 AM Subject: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 > Send Fot mailing list submissions to > fot@autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fot-request@autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fot-owner@autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fot digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: State of F1 (Joe Curry) > 2. Re: State of F1 (David W. Riddle) > 3. Re: State of F1 (David Talbott) > 4. Re: State of F1 (Bill Babcock) > 5. Re: State of F1 (Bill Babcock) > 6. Re: State of F1 (Joe Curry) > 7. Re: State of F1 (Jim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:28:40 -0700 > From: "Joe Curry" > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'Shane Ingate'" > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Message-ID: <1AD42E003EF04329B09F452362BA763C@newcomputer> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much better if the > teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself would be > at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:16 PM > To: Shane Ingate > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > They model the bejessus out of F1 cars, but flow is always chaotic at > the macro level. You can't even really precisely model water flow > through a pipe except as an ideal pipe. You can be very predictive > about components and even interactions between components to a degree, > but its not enough to really know what's going to happen. For that you > can't beat a tunnel. And the tunnel has to have a lot of special > characteristics. I know that even half-size models are viewed as a > gross approximation. Only a full size model will do, and it needs to > have steerable wheels, dynamic height front and back, and a rolling > road before the data is considered truly useful. > > They also model (and wind-tunnel test) car to car interaction > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:42:58 -0700 > From: "David W. Riddle" > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > To: fot@autox.team.net > Message-ID: > <20081023014104.TGZY6482.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: > >I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much better if the > >teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself would be > >at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. > > Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. > > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren-f > 1/ > > SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 > > Since were apparently all about covering the > super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something cool. > > McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing > to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the > Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren > > appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD > supercomputing, storage and visualization > equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an > SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, > SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI > InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The > company has subsequently added to this investment > in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing > enhancements to) two further SGI Altix > supercomputers, and the recent introduction of > the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). > > No details on the computers purchased other than > a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. > > Here is the Press Release from talking about it > > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.htm > l > > And a page at MCLaren too > > http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:31:26 -0700 > From: "David Talbott" > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > To: "Kas Kastner" , "Shane Ingate" > , "Friends of Triumph" > Message-ID: <000201c934b7$73b34dc0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > This reminds me of a discussion with Benoit Mandelbrot on the NewsHour last > night (in regard to rippling turbulence within the economy) during which he > said: > > "The word "turbulence" is one which actually is common to physics and to > social scientists, to economics. Everything which involves turbulence is > enormously more complicated, not just a little bit more complicated, not > just one year more schooling, just enormously more complicated." > > Mandelbrot, in addition to his mathematical fame (the "Father of Fractals"), > originally studied aeronautical engineering and later worked in fluid > dynamics, so if this cat still has trouble calculating turbulence, it's no > wonder we haven't yet figured out how to model it on computers and we still > need to mock it up to measure it. > > DT > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kas Kastner" > To: "Shane Ingate" ; "Friends of Triumph" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > > > We had all the computer people we needed plus our own hardware and > > software > > engineers at NPTI, and the modeling worked just fine for fit and design > > and > > tooling but air is really different as we found in our wind tunnel. > > > > At that same time Williams F-1 sent all their stuff to a tunnel just > > twenty > > miles from us for proof that the modeling was correct. The tunnel also > > must > > have a moving ground plane or it's no go. BMW has two full size tunnels > > and > > for a good reason. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Shane Ingate > > To: Kas Kastner ; Friends of Triumph > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > > > > > Kas wrote:> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two full > > size > > running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would have thought that > > today > > all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a computer. As > > Kas > > suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is dirt-cheap > > where an engineer can change model parameters and make the calculations > > within > > minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind > > tunnel.Many > > models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub-atomicinteractions in > > the > > far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if non-linear > > models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics.Shane Ingate in NM > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > > - > > You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. See how > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:54:51 -0700 > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > To: "David W. Riddle" > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Message-ID: <4A0D1EF6-AF9B-4E43-9D4F-373D6E8A9B47@bnj.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Yesterday's supercomputer is todays PDI (built into your cell phone as > a giveaway). I remember when a megabyte was a megabyte. the first > serious database machine I bought was a Sperry IT with a 80286 and a > 40 MB drive. Five K bux. This afternoon I tore apart one of my 1.5 > terabyte drives because it had croaked. I wound up keeping one of the > two 750GB drives out of the array and sticking it in a $39 enclosure, > then I threw away the rest of the junk and bought a 2 TB drive at > Fry's for $369. Two years ago a terabyte cost about a thousand bucks, > four years ago it would have been about $5K, seven years ago I did a > campaign for Tektronix about their new 1TB Profile--a raid array for > storing video. The tab was about $50K. > > Current state of the art for even just your laptop is a dual quad > Intel chip. Most of the software available can't really use it's > capabilities. Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial > sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel > than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, > and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. The > simplest approach is to guess at a whole bunch of answers and start > processing each guess while the correct answer is computed, then toss > away any processes based on the wrong guess. Massively wasteful but > hey, it's just processor cycles. > > It really all comes down to software and the fundamental limitations > of computing. Supercomputers just ain't that super. > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 6:42 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > > > At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: > >> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much > >> better if the > >> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself > >> would be > >> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. > > > > Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. > > > > > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren-f > > 1/ > > > > SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 > > > > Since were apparently all about covering the > > super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something > > cool. > > > > McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing > > to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the > > Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren > > > > appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD > > supercomputing, storage and visualization > > equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an > > SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, > > SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI > > InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The > > company has subsequently added to this investment > > in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing > > enhancements to) two further SGI Altix > > supercomputers, and the recent introduction of > > the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). > > > > No details on the computers purchased other than > > a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. > > > > Here is the Press Release from talking about it > > > > > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.htm > > l > > > > And a page at MCLaren too > > > > http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:07:52 -0700 > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > To: "David Talbott" > Cc: Shane Ingate , Friends of Triumph > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Yes indeed. I'm serious about not being able to accurately > mathematically model flow in a pipe. Just a plain old straight pipe. > Once the flow departs from pure laminar into turbulence it becomes > impossible to calculate. In real life experiments some components of > turbulent flow are moving backwards. If you think about it for just a > second that becomes obvious. > > Lots of stuff can't be reliably modeled. Departure from nucleate > boiling to film boiling in a nuclear plant for instance. Endless work > on the supercomputers of the day--lots of Crays. In the end the > problem was deemed "intractable" which is expensive engineering lingo > for "beats the sh*t out of me". The final determination was "stay ten > percent under the critical heat flux for departure from nucleate > boiling". Hell, I could have told them that. > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:31 PM, David Talbott wrote: > > > This reminds me of a discussion with Benoit Mandelbrot on the > > NewsHour last > > night (in regard to rippling turbulence within the economy) during > > which he > > said: > > > > "The word "turbulence" is one which actually is common to physics > > and to > > social scientists, to economics. Everything which involves > > turbulence is > > enormously more complicated, not just a little bit more complicated, > > not > > just one year more schooling, just enormously more complicated." > > > > Mandelbrot, in addition to his mathematical fame (the "Father of > > Fractals"), > > originally studied aeronautical engineering and later worked in fluid > > dynamics, so if this cat still has trouble calculating turbulence, > > it's no > > wonder we haven't yet figured out how to model it on computers and > > we still > > need to mock it up to measure it. > > > > DT > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > > To: "Shane Ingate" ; "Friends of Triumph" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > > > > >> We had all the computer people we needed plus our own hardware and > >> software > >> engineers at NPTI, and the modeling worked just fine for fit and > >> design > >> and > >> tooling but air is really different as we found in our wind tunnel. > >> > >> At that same time Williams F-1 sent all their stuff to a tunnel just > >> twenty > >> miles from us for proof that the modeling was correct. The tunnel > >> also > >> must > >> have a moving ground plane or it's no go. BMW has two full size > >> tunnels > >> and > >> for a good reason. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Shane Ingate > >> To: Kas Kastner ; Friends of Triumph > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:16 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > >> > >> > >> Kas wrote:> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have two > >> full > >> size > >> running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would have thought > >> that > >> today > >> all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a > >> computer. As > >> Kas > >> suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is dirt- > >> cheap > >> where an engineer can change model parameters and make the > >> calculations > >> within > >> minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind > >> tunnel.Many > >> models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub- > >> atomicinteractions in > >> the > >> far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if non- > >> linear > >> models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics.Shane Ingate in > >> NM > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > >> - > >> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. > >> See how > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> http://www.fot-racing.com > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot@autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:10:47 -0700 > From: "Joe Curry" > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'David W. Riddle'" > > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Just as Personal Computers grow an order of magnitude every 2 years, so do > super computers. Yes, the PCs of today eclipse super computers of the 90's, > the first moon lander had less computing power than most high school > calculators do today. > > But you are right, it is all in the software. The more power you have to > work with from the hardware, better the software can be and the faster and > more precise are your results. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:55 PM > To: David W. Riddle > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > Yesterday's supercomputer is todays PDI (built into your cell phone as > a giveaway). I remember when a megabyte was a megabyte. the first > serious database machine I bought was a Sperry IT with a 80286 and a > 40 MB drive. Five K bux. This afternoon I tore apart one of my 1.5 > terabyte drives because it had croaked. I wound up keeping one of the > two 750GB drives out of the array and sticking it in a $39 enclosure, > then I threw away the rest of the junk and bought a 2 TB drive at > Fry's for $369. Two years ago a terabyte cost about a thousand bucks, > four years ago it would have been about $5K, seven years ago I did a > campaign for Tektronix about their new 1TB Profile--a raid array for > storing video. The tab was about $50K. > > Current state of the art for even just your laptop is a dual quad > Intel chip. Most of the software available can't really use it's > capabilities. Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial > sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel > than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, > and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. The > simplest approach is to guess at a whole bunch of answers and start > processing each guess while the correct answer is computed, then toss > away any processes based on the wrong guess. Massively wasteful but > hey, it's just processor cycles. > > It really all comes down to software and the fundamental limitations > of computing. Supercomputers just ain't that super. > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 6:42 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > > > At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: > >> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much > >> better if the > >> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself > >> would be > >> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. > > > > Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. > > > > > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren- > f > > 1/ > > > > SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 > > > > Since were apparently all about covering the > > super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something > > cool. > > > > McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing > > to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the > > Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren > > > > appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD > > supercomputing, storage and visualization > > equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an > > SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, > > SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI > > InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The > > company has subsequently added to this investment > > in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing > > enhancements to) two further SGI Altix > > supercomputers, and the recent introduction of > > the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). > > > > No details on the computers purchased other than > > a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. > > > > Here is the Press Release from talking about it > > > > > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.ht > m > > l > > > > And a page at MCLaren too > > > > http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:37:38 -0500 > From: "Jim" > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > To: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Message-ID: <0384EEA5EF764FE6BD7BB69FF2182516@britbits> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Ed, > > What you describe sounds like several of the recent racing efforts. Despite > the rules.. most teams find ways to work around them. > > Causing the other teams to toss more $$ (or their native currency) at the > problem... Or to concede defeat and bow out. > > Can Am went that route and it looked good.. until Porsche dropped the 917K > on the competition. > > IMSA GTP tried a similar formula... and in it's last years we had first a > Nissan domintation (which I cheered for at Daytona in 1991 ;) then a Toyota > domination. > > There are some drivers that do well only in a tightly controlled setting.. > And others who shine no matter what the machine. > > I still miss seeing Al Holbert drive. Despite all the handicaps put on the > 962s, the Lowenbrau team was always a contender in the early days of IMSA. > Right before the plane crashed in '88 he was talking about a transmission > setup to let him shift under load to keep the boost up on the 962s. Don't > know if it was just talk or something real in the pipeline. > > My brothers were fans of his team, and knew Chip Robinson from the next town > over from where we grew up. I guess Kas probably remembers Chip.. be > interesting to hear his views, offline. > > Still, Mr Holbert basically put the nail in the coffin on the Group 44 Jag > effort. Still the prettiest GTP cars ('83/'84 vintage) I've ever seen. > > But back to Ed's concept. Nascar is basically IROC for rednecks. IRL... > Same idea for educated rednecks. > > F1? Snooty european rednecks? Is there such an animal? ;) > > Anyway, this makes a great diversion from changing diapers. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas... sometimes > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:38 PM > To: Bill Babcock; Joe Curry; KasKastner > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > > Group: Perhaps I'm a stranger bird than I thought, but, I haven't heard > anyone showing a desire to see a totally unlimited or minimally regulated > class of racing like the old Formula Libre. A real "run what you brung" type > racing. Perhaps rule out telemetry and/or electronic driving aids so the > driving talent can be seen and appreciated. True, money will always be a > factor, but a great driver in an old design may still beat a bad driver in > the most modern set-up. A great example of this would be the Formula Libre > race at Lime Rock where Roger Ward beat everything the factories, including > Ferrari, Maserati, and Jaguar had to offer with an Offy powered midget. > Truly a function of the car/driver combination. I have been trying to > discern whether he ran it with a multi-speed tranny or a simple in/out box > which would really have showed his skills. This is the complete opposite of > the (now defunct) IROC idea which has everyone running similarly prepped > cars, chosen in a draw, to find the best driver. Anyone's thoughts on this? > Kas, since you were running at that time, what were the opinions of the > Formula back then. Am I just wishing for the good old days? > -Ed- > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search > features. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s80Zzw2ixP2yFWMgJrQMlzi > NDE2JHj02d2efvkEjoAeXPWy/ > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > End of Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 > *********************************** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 11:09:49 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "'Joe Curry'" , "'Bill Babcock'" , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:11:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I had a 99/4a and thought it was great. A couple of years ago I dug it out of storage and gave it to my daughter who wanted to play "Hunt the Wumpus" again. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:21 AM To: 'Bill Babcock'; 'David W. Riddle' Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Did anybody out there have a Texas Instruments Home Computer (99/4)? I wrote the Technical Reference manual for that product back in 1979. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:45 AM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I have an Osborne 1 blocking part of the stairway to my shop. All the rest of my ancient hardware went to the dump long ago. The Osborne still works (if you can call it that). On Oct 23, 2008, at 8:20 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > At 07:50 AM 10/23/2008, Bill Babcock wrote: >> I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George >> Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way >> back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves >> what happens to them". > > There's a name from the wayback machine. I have two systems on a > shelf in the garage that run CP/M. A Victor 9000 that an Uncle of > mine designed. Runs both CP/M 86 and MS-DOS. The 5 MB hard drive > in one of them is running MS-DOS 1.25j. Maybe a Vintage Processing > class? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 11:15:18 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Norlin Engineering'" , "'Bill Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:15:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Apparently, there is a significant following of people who still have them. A few months ago I received an email from a guy who, through an internet search, tracked me down and asked if I was "THE" Joe Curry who was associated with the 99/4 having seen a mention that I used to work for TI on one of the discussion lists. He invited me to join his devoted group but since I donated all my TI hardware to a charity group many years ago, I declined. I had a copy at one point of every game module that was ever produced for that system. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: Norlin Engineering [mailto:norlinengineering@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:11 AM To: 'Joe Curry'; 'Bill Babcock'; 'David W. Riddle' Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] State of F1 I had a 99/4a and thought it was great. A couple of years ago I dug it out of storage and gave it to my daughter who wanted to play "Hunt the Wumpus" again. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:21 AM To: 'Bill Babcock'; 'David W. Riddle' Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Did anybody out there have a Texas Instruments Home Computer (99/4)? I wrote the Technical Reference manual for that product back in 1979. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:45 AM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 I have an Osborne 1 blocking part of the stairway to my shop. All the rest of my ancient hardware went to the dump long ago. The Osborne still works (if you can call it that). On Oct 23, 2008, at 8:20 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > At 07:50 AM 10/23/2008, Bill Babcock wrote: >> I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George >> Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way >> back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves >> what happens to them". > > There's a name from the wayback machine. I have two systems on a > shelf in the garage that run CP/M. A Victor 9000 that an Uncle of > mine designed. Runs both CP/M 86 and MS-DOS. The 5 MB hard drive > in one of them is running MS-DOS 1.25j. Maybe a Vintage Processing > class? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 11:26:05 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: rjohns@woh.rr.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:25:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] F-1 Just a comment...... In the late 50s, Jim Bede, used tiny perforations in the flying surfaces in order to control laminar flow. Not very cost effective at the time, but with modern manufacturing methods, it might be more feasible. Maybe it wasnt even functionally effective, but an interesting idea. F-1 and others have may have pursued this, but I wonder about that, too. Jim Bede was the originator the BD-5 & BD 5J microjet used in the Bond Movies and one was also owned and flown by Richard Bach....(Jonathon Livingston Seagull). > FYI - Response from a retired Aeronautical Engineer friend of mine that I > shared your interesting, the state of F1, conversation. Thought you might > appreciate his words on the subject. > Bob Johns > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gregory Foster > To: Robert Johns > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 > > > Aero and hydro dynamics are always interesting subjects which I could > talk at length on because I spent the last 15 years of my career dealing with > them when we were building high speed underwater vehicles. Also since my > hobby is flying sailplanes, it is a constant topic of conversation along with > "secret" airfoils and "secret" wing finishes to either eliminate or at least > carefully control transitions from laminar to turbulent flow. Most of it is > BS > but some is not. A recent development suggests there may be a new one coming > along. see http://www.standardcirrus.org/ A technique used in gliders is to > smear used crankcase oil that is good and black along a 2 foot section of a > wing and then go fly the plane and see how the oil streaked off the wing. > The > location ( cordwise) of any transition to turbulent airflow is very visible > in the remaining oil smears. Then we know where to place strips of > "deturbulator" tapes. > > I have been through several classes on turbulence including the > Mendelbrot techniques discussed in the Fot. He is a math genius and his > theories of "Chaos", when applied to turbulence result in very strange > phenomenal (in theory). As a personal hobby project I tried very hard to > apply some of his theory to stock market analysis (if that isn't chaos, what > is?) and it will take someone smarter than I am to produce something useful. > I could show that his theory applies to the market but I wanted a form of > predictor and failed to get such a result. It is called "looking for a > "strange" attractor". The word strange has a definite, specific meaning in > his theory. > > Greg _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 11:46:40 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Robert Johns" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:46:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 I've been interested in dynamical systems for a while. Strange attractors are part of fractal theory, but have more to do with Lorenz than Mandelbrot, and as I recall it wasn't Lorenz that came up with the idea, but rather a group of mathematicians that can't communicate with limited folks like me. Edward Lorenz's book, the name of which escapes me but it's something like Chaos Theory, is a very readable explanation of attractors and chaos theory that doesn't involve anything past basic differential equations to understand (which is a damned good thing). On Oct 23, 2008, at 9:48 AM, Robert Johns wrote: > FYI - Response from a retired Aeronautical Engineer friend of mine > that I > shared your interesting, the state of F1, conversation. Thought > you might > appreciate his words on the subject. > Bob Johns > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gregory Foster > To: Robert Johns > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 > > > Aero and hydro dynamics are always interesting subjects which I > could > talk at length on because I spent the last 15 years of my career > dealing with > them when we were building high speed underwater vehicles. Also > since my > hobby is flying sailplanes, it is a constant topic of conversation > along with > "secret" airfoils and "secret" wing finishes to either eliminate or > at least > carefully control transitions from laminar to turbulent flow. Most > of it is BS > but some is not. A recent development suggests there may be a new > one coming > along. see http://www.standardcirrus.org/ A technique used in > gliders is to > smear used crankcase oil that is good and black along a 2 foot > section of a > wing and then go fly the plane and see how the oil streaked off the > wing. The > location ( cordwise) of any transition to turbulent airflow is very > visible > in the remaining oil smears. Then we know where to place strips of > "deturbulator" tapes. > > I have been through several classes on turbulence including the > Mendelbrot techniques discussed in the Fot. He is a math genius and > his > theories of "Chaos", when applied to turbulence result in very strange > phenomenal (in theory). As a personal hobby project I tried very > hard to > apply some of his theory to stock market analysis (if that isn't > chaos, what > is?) and it will take someone smarter than I am to produce something > useful. > I could show that his theory applies to the market but I wanted a > form of > predictor and failed to get such a result. It is called "looking > for a > "strange" attractor". The word strange has a definite, specific > meaning in > his theory. > > Greg > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Robert Johns wrote: > > From: Robert Johns > Subject: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 > To: "Greg Foster" > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 7:33 AM > > > FUI Interesting conversation on computer modeling. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:38 AM > Subject: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 > > >> Send Fot mailing list submissions to >> fot@autox.team.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> fot-request@autox.team.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> fot-owner@autox.team.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Fot digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: State of F1 (Joe Curry) >> 2. Re: State of F1 (David W. Riddle) >> 3. Re: State of F1 (David Talbott) >> 4. Re: State of F1 (Bill Babcock) >> 5. Re: State of F1 (Bill Babcock) >> 6. Re: State of F1 (Joe Curry) >> 7. Re: State of F1 (Jim) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:28:40 -0700 >> From: "Joe Curry" >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> To: "'Bill Babcock'" , > "'Shane Ingate'" >> >> Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Message-ID: <1AD42E003EF04329B09F452362BA763C@newcomputer> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much >> better if > the >> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself >> would > be >> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces@autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:16 PM >> To: Shane Ingate >> Cc: Friends of Triumph >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> They model the bejessus out of F1 cars, but flow is always chaotic at >> the macro level. You can't even really precisely model water flow >> through a pipe except as an ideal pipe. You can be very predictive >> about components and even interactions between components to a >> degree, >> but its not enough to really know what's going to happen. For that >> you >> can't beat a tunnel. And the tunnel has to have a lot of special >> characteristics. I know that even half-size models are viewed as a >> gross approximation. Only a full size model will do, and it needs to >> have steerable wheels, dynamic height front and back, and a rolling >> road before the data is considered truly useful. >> >> They also model (and wind-tunnel test) car to car interaction >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:42:58 -0700 >> From: "David W. Riddle" >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> To: fot@autox.team.net >> Message-ID: >> <20081023014104.TGZY6482.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed >> >> At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: >>> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much >>> better > if > the >>> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in itself > would > be >>> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as predictable. >> >> Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. >> >> > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren-f >> 1/ >> >> SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 >> >> Since were apparently all about covering the >> super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something >> cool. >> >> McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing >> to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the >> Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren >> >> appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD >> supercomputing, storage and visualization >> equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an >> SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, >> SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI >> InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The >> company has subsequently added to this investment >> in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing >> enhancements to) two further SGI Altix >> supercomputers, and the recent introduction of >> the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). >> >> No details on the computers purchased other than >> a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. >> >> Here is the Press Release from talking about it >> >> > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.htm >> l >> >> And a page at MCLaren too >> >> http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:31:26 -0700 >> From: "David Talbott" >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> To: "Kas Kastner" , "Shane > Ingate" >> , "Friends of Triumph" > >> Message-ID: <000201c934b7$73b34dc0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> This reminds me of a discussion with Benoit Mandelbrot on the >> NewsHour > last >> night (in regard to rippling turbulence within the economy) during >> which > he >> said: >> >> "The word "turbulence" is one which actually is common to > physics and to >> social scientists, to economics. Everything which involves >> turbulence is >> enormously more complicated, not just a little bit more >> complicated, not >> just one year more schooling, just enormously more complicated." >> >> Mandelbrot, in addition to his mathematical fame (the "Father of > Fractals"), >> originally studied aeronautical engineering and later worked in fluid >> dynamics, so if this cat still has trouble calculating turbulence, > it's no >> wonder we haven't yet figured out how to model it on computers and we > still >> need to mock it up to measure it. >> >> DT >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kas Kastner" >> To: "Shane Ingate" ; "Friends of > Triumph" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> >>> We had all the computer people we needed plus our own hardware and >>> software >>> engineers at NPTI, and the modeling worked just fine for fit and > design >>> and >>> tooling but air is really different as we found in our wind tunnel. >>> >>> At that same time Williams F-1 sent all their stuff to a tunnel just >>> twenty >>> miles from us for proof that the modeling was correct. The tunnel > also >>> must >>> have a moving ground plane or it's no go. BMW has two full size > tunnels >>> and >>> for a good reason. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Shane Ingate >>> To: Kas Kastner ; Friends of Triumph >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >>> >>> >>> Kas wrote:> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams have > two full >>> size >>> running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would have > thought that >>> today >>> all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a > computer. > As >>> Kas >>> suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is > dirt-cheap >>> where an engineer can change model parameters and make the > calculations >>> within >>> minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind >>> tunnel.Many >>> models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and > sub-atomicinteractions > in >>> the >>> far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if > non-linear >>> models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics.Shane Ingate in > NM >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- >>> - >>> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. > See > how >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:54:51 -0700 >> From: Bill Babcock >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> To: "David W. Riddle" >> Cc: fot@autox.team.net >> Message-ID: <4A0D1EF6-AF9B-4E43-9D4F-373D6E8A9B47@bnj.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Yesterday's supercomputer is todays PDI (built into your cell phone >> as >> a giveaway). I remember when a megabyte was a megabyte. the first >> serious database machine I bought was a Sperry IT with a 80286 and a >> 40 MB drive. Five K bux. This afternoon I tore apart one of my 1.5 >> terabyte drives because it had croaked. I wound up keeping one of the >> two 750GB drives out of the array and sticking it in a $39 enclosure, >> then I threw away the rest of the junk and bought a 2 TB drive at >> Fry's for $369. Two years ago a terabyte cost about a thousand bucks, >> four years ago it would have been about $5K, seven years ago I did a >> campaign for Tektronix about their new 1TB Profile--a raid array for >> storing video. The tab was about $50K. >> >> Current state of the art for even just your laptop is a dual quad >> Intel chip. Most of the software available can't really use it's >> capabilities. Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial >> sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel >> than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, >> and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. The >> simplest approach is to guess at a whole bunch of answers and start >> processing each guess while the correct answer is computed, then toss >> away any processes based on the wrong guess. Massively wasteful but >> hey, it's just processor cycles. >> >> It really all comes down to software and the fundamental limitations >> of computing. Supercomputers just ain't that super. >> >> On Oct 22, 2008, at 6:42 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >>> At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: >>>> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much >>>> better if the >>>> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in > itself >>>> would be >>>> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as > predictable. >>> >>> Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. >>> >>> >> > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren-f >>> 1/ >>> >>> SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 >>> >>> Since were apparently all about covering the >>> super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something >>> cool. >>> >>> McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing >>> to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the >>> Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren >>> >>> appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD >>> supercomputing, storage and visualization >>> equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an >>> SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, >>> SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI >>> InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The >>> company has subsequently added to this investment >>> in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing >>> enhancements to) two further SGI Altix >>> supercomputers, and the recent introduction of >>> the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). >>> >>> No details on the computers purchased other than >>> a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. >>> >>> Here is the Press Release from talking about it >>> >>> >> > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.htm >>> l >>> >>> And a page at MCLaren too >>> >>> http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:07:52 -0700 >> From: Bill Babcock >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> To: "David Talbott" >> Cc: Shane Ingate , Friends of Triumph >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Yes indeed. I'm serious about not being able to accurately >> mathematically model flow in a pipe. Just a plain old straight pipe. >> Once the flow departs from pure laminar into turbulence it becomes >> impossible to calculate. In real life experiments some components of >> turbulent flow are moving backwards. If you think about it for just a >> second that becomes obvious. >> >> Lots of stuff can't be reliably modeled. Departure from nucleate >> boiling to film boiling in a nuclear plant for instance. Endless work >> on the supercomputers of the day--lots of Crays. In the end the >> problem was deemed "intractable" which is expensive engineering > lingo >> for "beats the sh*t out of me". The final determination was > "stay ten >> percent under the critical heat flux for departure from nucleate >> boiling". Hell, I could have told them that. >> >> On Oct 22, 2008, at 7:31 PM, David Talbott wrote: >> >>> This reminds me of a discussion with Benoit Mandelbrot on the >>> NewsHour last >>> night (in regard to rippling turbulence within the economy) during >>> which he >>> said: >>> >>> "The word "turbulence" is one which actually is common > to physics >>> and to >>> social scientists, to economics. Everything which involves >>> turbulence is >>> enormously more complicated, not just a little bit more complicated, >>> not >>> just one year more schooling, just enormously more complicated." >>> >>> Mandelbrot, in addition to his mathematical fame (the "Father of >>> Fractals"), >>> originally studied aeronautical engineering and later worked in >>> fluid >>> dynamics, so if this cat still has trouble calculating turbulence, >>> it's no >>> wonder we haven't yet figured out how to model it on computers > and >>> we still >>> need to mock it up to measure it. >>> >>> DT >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > >>> To: "Shane Ingate" ; > "Friends of Triumph" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >>> >>> >>>> We had all the computer people we needed plus our own hardware > and >>>> software >>>> engineers at NPTI, and the modeling worked just fine for fit and >>>> design >>>> and >>>> tooling but air is really different as we found in our wind > tunnel. >>>> >>>> At that same time Williams F-1 sent all their stuff to a tunnel > just >>>> twenty >>>> miles from us for proof that the modeling was correct. The tunnel >>>> also >>>> must >>>> have a moving ground plane or it's no go. BMW has two full > size >>>> tunnels >>>> and >>>> for a good reason. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Shane Ingate >>>> To: Kas Kastner ; Friends of Triumph >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >>>> >>>> >>>> Kas wrote:> Wind tunnels have an amazing cost. Some teams > have two >>>> full >>>> size >>>> running 24 > hours a day. That's interesting. I would > have thought >>>> that >>>> today >>>> all aerodynamic and structure-loading modeling was done on a >>>> computer. As >>>> Kas >>>> suggests, wind tunnels are expensive, but computer modeling is > dirt- >>>> cheap >>>> where an engineer can change model parameters and make the >>>> calculations >>>> within >>>> minutes that would otherwise necessitate a complete day in a wind >>>> tunnel.Many >>>> models these days (I speak for hydrodynamic and sub- >>>> atomicinteractions in >>>> the >>>> far-field) use non-linear models. I would not be surprised if > non- >>>> linear >>>> models were used in the simple case of aerodynamics.Shane Ingate > in >>>> NM >>>> >> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>> - >>>> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. >>>> See how >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot@autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:10:47 -0700 >> From: "Joe Curry" >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> To: "'Bill Babcock'" , > "'David W. Riddle'" >> >> Cc: fot@autox.team.net >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Just as Personal Computers grow an order of magnitude every 2 >> years, so do >> super computers. Yes, the PCs of today eclipse super computers of >> the > 90's, >> the first moon lander had less computing power than most high school >> calculators do today. >> >> But you are right, it is all in the software. The more power you >> have to >> work with from the hardware, better the software can be and the >> faster and >> more precise are your results. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces@autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:55 PM >> To: David W. Riddle >> Cc: fot@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> Yesterday's supercomputer is todays PDI (built into your cell phone >> as >> a giveaway). I remember when a megabyte was a megabyte. the first >> serious database machine I bought was a Sperry IT with a 80286 and a >> 40 MB drive. Five K bux. This afternoon I tore apart one of my 1.5 >> terabyte drives because it had croaked. I wound up keeping one of the >> two 750GB drives out of the array and sticking it in a $39 enclosure, >> then I threw away the rest of the junk and bought a 2 TB drive at >> Fry's for $369. Two years ago a terabyte cost about a thousand bucks, >> four years ago it would have been about $5K, seven years ago I did a >> campaign for Tektronix about their new 1TB Profile--a raid array for >> storing video. The tab was about $50K. >> >> Current state of the art for even just your laptop is a dual quad >> Intel chip. Most of the software available can't really use it's >> capabilities. Super computers are either extremely fast in a serial >> sense (limited) or massively parallel. If they are massively parallel >> than everything that runs on them needs to be optimized up the wazoo, >> and it's terrifically difficult to get stuff to work well. The >> simplest approach is to guess at a whole bunch of answers and start >> processing each guess while the correct answer is computed, then toss >> away any processes based on the wrong guess. Massively wasteful but >> hey, it's just processor cycles. >> >> It really all comes down to software and the fundamental limitations >> of computing. Supercomputers just ain't that super. >> >> On Oct 22, 2008, at 6:42 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >>> At 06:28 PM 10/22/2008, you wrote: >>>> I suspect that Computer modeling of aerodynamics could be much >>>> better if the >>>> teams had super-computers with proper software. But that in > itself >>>> would be >>>> at least as expensive as wind tunnels and maybe not as > predictable. >>> >>> Ummm... They do use Supercomputers for CFD. >>> >>> >> > http://insidehpc.com/2007/07/31/sgi-the-official-supplier-of-hpc-to-mclaren- >> f >>> 1/ >>> >>> SGI: the official supplier of HPC to McLaren F1 07.31.2007 >>> >>> Since were apparently all about covering the >>> super exclusive HPC-in-racing niche news market, heres something >>> cool. >>> >>> McLaren builds supercars, and uses supercomputing >>> to get the aerodynamics right. But dial the >>> Wayback machine to 2005 when McLaren >>> >>> appointed SGI as its official supplier for CFD >>> supercomputing, storage and visualization >>> equipment. McLarens initial purchase included an >>> SGI Altix supercomputer, visualization solutions, >>> SGI InfiniteStorage system and the SGI >>> InfiniteStorage CXFS shared filesystem. The >>> company has subsequently added to this investment >>> in July 2007, with the addition of (and ongoing >>> enhancements to) two further SGI Altix >>> supercomputers, and the recent introduction of >>> the SGI InfiniteStorage Data Migration Facility (DMF). >>> >>> No details on the computers purchased other than >>> a fourfold increase in productivity. Details from SGI. >>> >>> Here is the Press Release from talking about it >>> >>> >> > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/july/formula.ht >> m >>> l >>> >>> And a page at MCLaren too >>> >>> http://www.mclaren.com/partners/interims/sgi-combination/index.html >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:37:38 -0500 >> From: "Jim" >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> To: "'Friends of Triumph'" >> Message-ID: <0384EEA5EF764FE6BD7BB69FF2182516@britbits> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> Ed, >> >> What you describe sounds like several of the recent racing efforts. > Despite >> the rules.. most teams find ways to work around them. >> >> Causing the other teams to toss more $$ (or their native currency) >> at the >> problem... Or to concede defeat and bow out. >> >> Can Am went that route and it looked good.. until Porsche dropped >> the 917K >> on the competition. >> >> IMSA GTP tried a similar formula... and in it's last years we had > first a >> Nissan domintation (which I cheered for at Daytona in 1991 ;) then a > Toyota >> domination. >> >> There are some drivers that do well only in a tightly controlled >> setting.. >> And others who shine no matter what the machine. >> >> I still miss seeing Al Holbert drive. Despite all the handicaps >> put on > the >> 962s, the Lowenbrau team was always a contender in the early days >> of IMSA. >> Right before the plane crashed in '88 he was talking about a > transmission >> setup to let him shift under load to keep the boost up on the 962s. > Don't >> know if it was just talk or something real in the pipeline. >> >> My brothers were fans of his team, and knew Chip Robinson from the >> next > town >> over from where we grew up. I guess Kas probably remembers Chip.. be >> interesting to hear his views, offline. >> >> Still, Mr Holbert basically put the nail in the coffin on the Group >> 44 Jag >> effort. Still the prettiest GTP cars ('83/'84 vintage) I've > ever seen. >> >> But back to Ed's concept. Nascar is basically IROC for rednecks. > IRL... >> Same idea for educated rednecks. >> >> F1? Snooty european rednecks? Is there such an animal? ;) >> >> Anyway, this makes a great diversion from changing diapers. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas... sometimes >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces@autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:38 PM >> To: Bill Babcock; Joe Curry; KasKastner >> Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 >> >> >> Group: Perhaps I'm a stranger bird than I thought, but, I haven't > heard >> anyone showing a desire to see a totally unlimited or minimally >> regulated >> class of racing like the old Formula Libre. A real "run what you > brung" > type >> racing. Perhaps rule out telemetry and/or electronic driving aids >> so the >> driving talent can be seen and appreciated. True, money will always >> be a >> factor, but a great driver in an old design may still beat a bad >> driver in >> the most modern set-up. A great example of this would be the >> Formula Libre >> race at Lime Rock where Roger Ward beat everything the factories, > including >> Ferrari, Maserati, and Jaguar had to offer with an Offy powered >> midget. >> Truly a function of the car/driver combination. I have been trying to >> discern whether he ran it with a multi-speed tranny or a simple in/ >> out box >> which would really have showed his skills. This is the complete >> opposite > of >> the (now defunct) IROC idea which has everyone running similarly >> prepped >> cars, chosen in a draw, to find the best driver. Anyone's thoughts on > this? >> Kas, since you were running at that time, what were the opinions of >> the >> Formula back then. Am I just wishing for the good old days? >> -Ed- >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search >> features. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s80Zzw2ixP2yFWMgJrQMlzi >> NDE2JHj02d2efvkEjoAeXPWy/ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> End of Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 >> *********************************** > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 11:52:29 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: , "'Bill Babcock'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:54:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing OK, I'll chime in since I race my Spitfire in both SCCA Regional/National events and in Vintage. When I built the car, I wanted it to do double duty, vintage body, drivetrain and suspension with safety equipment per current GCR. Last weekend, I entered the vintage class at the SCCA regional in Portland. The car ran great on Saturday, so on Sunday morning I entered the car in HP also(only 2 other HP cars, both Rabbit's). I started at the back of the pack since I didn't qualify in HP. At the end of the day. I had won HP and set a new lap record in the process (not really a big deal since they reconfigured the track last winter and all records are being reset this year, a real HP national car would clean my clock). While this was a thrill, I actually had more fun racing in the Vintage group trying to keep up with a Volvo sedan. This was broken up when a FF dropped oil all around the track, right on the center of the line. Rain racing is easier than negotiating a track like that. The biggest difference I saw was that the "real racers" don't give near the racing room that the vintage drivers do. Even with the terrible, oily track conditions, only one car spun out in the vintage group. In the other race, a friend in an beautiful MGB had his rear fender rubbed by a Miata driver that was merely "trying to keep up with his buddies". Racing dual sessions like this is pretty economical. The second group was half price, so in two days, for less than $400, I got 135 minutes of track time (would have been more had I practiced and qualified in HP on Saturday). On Sunday alone, I had 90 minutes of track time, all races. Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer cars and better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back and forthby changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the Nationals and back to the steel bonnet and treadded tires for vintage. Finally, and off the topic, I want to give a word of thanks to Ted at TSI, Arnie at Loynings Engine Service and Keith at Foreign Parts Positively for helping to get my reliability back where it belongs. We've now finished all sessions in 4 consecutive weekends. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of westerneagleracing@att.net Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:29 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing FOT Great comments on the state of vintage racing. I race both SCCA (Spec Ford so not too many modifications but sometimes a contact sport) and Vintage (TR-4A can be real racing without contact). I am also running for the Board of CSRG and while I doubt that there will ever be a consensus I'd like to hear more comments on the state of vintage racing. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from Bill Babcock : -------------- > Actually I think Testarossas have aluminum blocks. Enzo was allergic > to cast iron. > > Mosport sets it's own limits. I'd like wings, slicks and an ejection > seat. > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:14 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > > > You forgot to recast the block in aluminium. > > Maybe this can't be controlled. > > > > So maybe an option is to further sub-divid the classes? > > > > - Show room stock class > > - Semi prepped class > > - Your richer then smarter class > > > > And let people run what you brung. > > > > Kinda like the slicks and wings class at Mosport, you get a mix from > > low end neat ideas to full out ex F1 cars. > > > > Its a mad mad world. > > > > A. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/10/23 Bill Babcock > > > >> What makes you think bodies aren't already acid dipped? I'm working > >> on that "personal lightening program"--have a weight bet going with > >> my brother. > >> Actually I think the most serious problem in vintage racing is more > >> that the > >> valuable cars can't be changed much--it would decrease their sky-high > >> value--while specials and production racers can skirt the edge of the > >> rulebook. That means there isn't a testarossa on the planet that > >> can stay > >> with Peyote, which is both silly and sad. We don't get to see them > >> on track > >> very often anymore--they are too valuable to risk and the owners > >> don't like > >> getting hammered by cars they should be able to romp over. > >> I don't know how to fix that. Making Peyote slow won't change > >> anything but > >> the finish order at a few races. All the fast triumphs are rulebook- > >> legal, > >> more or less. Or could be without putting a serious dent in their > >> lap times. > >> The worst anyone is doing is running 89mm bores, and that's a > >> tweak--not > >> really worth much--you can get nearly the same horsepower with a 87. > >> Pandoras box is knowledge, we all know how to make a car fast, we > >> all have > >> access to the learning of the last 50 years, and it goes into our > >> cars, > >> while testarossas are stuck in time. > >> > >> Of course if I had a TR the first thing I'd do would be to make a > >> replica of the frame, only in titanium, and a carbon fibre body. > >> Then... On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > >> > >> I guess that is the nature of racing, those with money will do what > >> ever it costs to win. > >> > >> What's next acid dipping of the bodies? > >> > >> Frankly if I wanted to make my "future" racer lighter. I'd start > >> with myself. > >> > >> A. > >> > >> -- > >> Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > >> Ottawa, ON, Canada > >> > >> 2008/10/23 > >> > >> Good Morning > >> > >> > >> What I am observing is that some vintage racing groups are going > >> > >> down the same path as CanAm and FI by allowing expensive > >> modifications to > >> > >> take > >> > >> place. Is there really a need to have Kevlar bodywork on a Spitfire > >> or TR6 > >> > >> in > >> > >> vintage racing? > >> > >> > >> It has always struck me as rather hypocritical that vintage groups > >> > >> wanted owners to use pre 1972 body specification and have the true > >> > >> appearance > >> > >> of post 1972 cars destroyed. Now we are putting Kevlar replacement > >> panels > >> > >> to > >> > >> look like pre 1972 cars. > >> > >> > >> I have to wonder why the people doing these modifications are not > >> > >> instead running SCCA. I am just as guilty as the next person here, > >> our > >> > >> engines > >> > >> are too modified. They are nothing like what was raced in the 1970s > >> and > >> > >> earlier. > >> > >> > >> Vintage may be making itself too expensive too. > >> > >> > >> Baseball Dad > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> http://www.fot-racing.com > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >> > >> > >> Bill Babcock > >> Babcock & Jenkins > >> Billb@bnj.com > >> 503.936.7660 > >> www.bnj.com > >> > >> Editor > >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine > >> *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > >> * > >> * > >> Bill@kenalu.com > >> www.kenalu.com > >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:09:21 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Norlin Engineering" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:09:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Yikes, I think you're running in different nationals than I did. I found national DSR racing to be way more brutal than the regional stuff. Lots of bodywork replacement and goof-off to get the tire marks off. All SCCA racing is done to a much different competition standard than vintage racing. Donuts on the side of your car is just part of the game. "Racing room" is a tenuous concept when the other guy really NEEDS the same spot you plan to occupy. And that leads to the only thing I'd caution you about. Switching from SCCA to "real" vintage racing takes some mental discipline. Even the SCCA vintage is supposed to be non-contact but the stewards generally are nowhere near as tough on it, and the racing reflects that. When you move to an organization that will put you on the trailer for a love tap, and drivers who will be righteously pissed if you block pass them, you need a calmer approach. On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer > cars and > better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back and > forthby > changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the Nationals and > back to the > steel bonnet and treadded tires for vintage. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:18:41 2008 From: George Harmuth To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:16:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 47 Joe C. wrote "Did anybody out there have a Texas Instruments Home Computer (99/4)? I wrote the Technical Reference manual for that product back in 1979." Yes, I still have it in the attic. My kids used the tape drive (cassette player) for their music tapes when they were young. The TI was my first system until I upgraded to a dual 5 1/4 floppy drive Packerd Bell. mike G. Michael Harmuth Software Engineer _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:23:29 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Bill Babcock" , "Norlin Engineering" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:20:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing << if you block pass them>> "Block pass"? Is that where another driver stuffs his car down inside you on corner entry, going too fast to make the corner, and then throws out the anchors in front of you in mid-corner to keep from going off? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:09 PM To: Norlin Engineering Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Yikes, I think you're running in different nationals than I did. I found national DSR racing to be way more brutal than the regional stuff. Lots of bodywork replacement and goof-off to get the tire marks off. All SCCA racing is done to a much different competition standard than vintage racing. Donuts on the side of your car is just part of the game. "Racing room" is a tenuous concept when the other guy really NEEDS the same spot you plan to occupy. And that leads to the only thing I'd caution you about. Switching from SCCA to "real" vintage racing takes some mental discipline. Even the SCCA vintage is supposed to be non-contact but the stewards generally are nowhere near as tough on it, and the racing reflects that. When you move to an organization that will put you on the trailer for a love tap, and drivers who will be righteously pissed if you block pass them, you need a calmer approach. On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer > cars and better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back > and forthby changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the > Nationals and back to the steel bonnet and treadded tires for vintage. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:26:05 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Barr, Scott" , "Bill Babcock" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:25:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing shhhh!...that's an 'unspoken' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Bill Babcock" ; "Norlin Engineering" Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > << if you block pass them>> > > "Block pass"? Is that where another driver stuffs his car down inside > you on corner entry, going too fast to make the corner, and then throws > out the anchors in front of you in mid-corner to keep from going off? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:09 PM > To: Norlin Engineering > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > > Yikes, I think you're running in different nationals than I did. I found > national DSR racing to be way more brutal than the regional stuff. Lots > of bodywork replacement and goof-off to get the tire marks off. > > All SCCA racing is done to a much different competition standard than > vintage racing. Donuts on the side of your car is just part of the game. > "Racing room" is a tenuous concept when the other guy really NEEDS the > same spot you plan to occupy. And that leads to the only thing I'd > caution you about. Switching from SCCA to "real" vintage racing takes > some mental discipline. Even the SCCA vintage is supposed to be > non-contact but the stewards generally are nowhere near as tough on it, > and the racing reflects that. When you move to an organization that will > put you on the trailer for a love tap, and drivers who will be > righteously pissed if you block pass them, you need a calmer approach. > > > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > >> Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer >> cars and better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back >> and forthby changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the >> Nationals and back to the steel bonnet and treadded tires for vintage. > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:26:18 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Barr, Scott" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:26:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing That would be the basic move, with some variations. On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:20 AM, Barr, Scott wrote: > << if you block pass them>> > > "Block pass"? Is that where another driver stuffs his car down inside > you on corner entry, going too fast to make the corner, and then > throws > out the anchors in front of you in mid-corner to keep from going off? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:09 PM > To: Norlin Engineering > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > > Yikes, I think you're running in different nationals than I did. I > found > national DSR racing to be way more brutal than the regional stuff. > Lots > of bodywork replacement and goof-off to get the tire marks off. > > All SCCA racing is done to a much different competition standard than > vintage racing. Donuts on the side of your car is just part of the > game. > "Racing room" is a tenuous concept when the other guy really NEEDS the > same spot you plan to occupy. And that leads to the only thing I'd > caution you about. Switching from SCCA to "real" vintage racing takes > some mental discipline. Even the SCCA vintage is supposed to be > non-contact but the stewards generally are nowhere near as tough on > it, > and the racing reflects that. When you move to an organization that > will > put you on the trailer for a love tap, and drivers who will be > righteously pissed if you block pass them, you need a calmer approach. > > > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > >> Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer >> cars and better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back >> and forthby changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the >> Nationals and back to the steel bonnet and treadded tires for >> vintage. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:28:58 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: "RACER BUD" , "Bill Babcock" , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:26:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing << shhhh!...that's an 'unspoken' >> Right, sorry. I've never seen that happen. Ever. -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:26 PM To: Barr, Scott; Bill Babcock; Norlin Engineering Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Bill Babcock" ; "Norlin Engineering" Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > << if you block pass them>> > > "Block pass"? Is that where another driver stuffs his car down inside > you on corner entry, going too fast to make the corner, and then throws > out the anchors in front of you in mid-corner to keep from going off? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:09 PM > To: Norlin Engineering > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > > Yikes, I think you're running in different nationals than I did. I found > national DSR racing to be way more brutal than the regional stuff. Lots > of bodywork replacement and goof-off to get the tire marks off. > > All SCCA racing is done to a much different competition standard than > vintage racing. Donuts on the side of your car is just part of the game. > "Racing room" is a tenuous concept when the other guy really NEEDS the > same spot you plan to occupy. And that leads to the only thing I'd > caution you about. Switching from SCCA to "real" vintage racing takes > some mental discipline. Even the SCCA vintage is supposed to be > non-contact but the stewards generally are nowhere near as tough on it, > and the racing reflects that. When you move to an organization that will > put you on the trailer for a love tap, and drivers who will be > righteously pissed if you block pass them, you need a calmer approach. > > > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > >> Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer >> cars and better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back >> and forthby changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the >> Nationals and back to the steel bonnet and treadded tires for vintage. > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:29:21 2008 From: Susan Kahler To: Friends of Triumph Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:29:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Replying from digest, etc. Hey everyone, When you reply to the list from a digest or someone who has replied from a digest, would you please strip the 330 unnecessary messages from your reply before you send? It's using a lot of bandwidth. Same goes for the long message-reply threads. I thought the list used to do this automatically, but it may have been changed when Mark relaxed the protocols for Uncle Jack messages. Thank you! Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:42:50 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "'Bill Babcock'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:44:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Totally agree with respect to DSR, I think it is far more cutthroat than HP, at least in the Northwest. The beauty of running a car that is in the slowest class in the group is that you get to watch the carnage of the first lap from the rear, and then can settle down and race within your own bunch. Sunday, one of the Rabbits attempted to block pass the other one in the first corner of the sprint race. He got way sideways and ended up punching the Armco that's at least 50 ft off the track. Got to see it all from about 30 feet behind. I ran the CRC this year and was amazed at how close everyone races without touching. 38 cars in my group and not a problem anywhere. Once again, the attitude was the same, do the best you can, but give a wide berth to everyone, plenty of racing room. The biggest problem I saw with that venue was the very short (15 minute) sprint races. With 38 cars all fairly close in lap times, it barely gives time for the group to settle out. By the time you're sizing up the guy in front of you and figuring out where you might be able to pass him, the checkered flag comes out. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:43:06 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: "Barr, Scott" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:42:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Sounds like what happened to me when some idiot in an Austin Healey 3000 went under me in corner 3 at Blackhawk but could not make it stick then went wide and almost sent me into the woods. On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Barr, Scott wrote: > << if you block pass them>> > > "Block pass"? Is that where another driver stuffs his car down inside > you on corner entry, going too fast to make the corner, and then > throws > out the anchors in front of you in mid-corner to keep from going off? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:09 PM > To: Norlin Engineering > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > > Yikes, I think you're running in different nationals than I did. I > found > national DSR racing to be way more brutal than the regional stuff. > Lots > of bodywork replacement and goof-off to get the tire marks off. > > All SCCA racing is done to a much different competition standard than > vintage racing. Donuts on the side of your car is just part of the > game. > "Racing room" is a tenuous concept when the other guy really NEEDS the > same spot you plan to occupy. And that leads to the only thing I'd > caution you about. Switching from SCCA to "real" vintage racing takes > some mental discipline. Even the SCCA vintage is supposed to be > non-contact but the stewards generally are nowhere near as tough on > it, > and the racing reflects that. When you move to an organization that > will > put you on the trailer for a love tap, and drivers who will be > righteously pissed if you block pass them, you need a calmer approach. > > > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > >> Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer >> cars and better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back >> and forthby changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the >> Nationals and back to the steel bonnet and treadded tires for >> vintage. > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 12:54:56 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Jerry Barr" , "Barr, Scott" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:54:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing speaking of Big Healeys..they never did handle with a Triumph...they were knocked from cp down to dp, and tr4s waxed them..with a 900cc displacement difference...I wonder 'how become' some are so fast in vintage? RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Barr" To: "Barr, Scott" Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > Sounds like what happened to me when some idiot in an Austin Healey 3000 > went under me in corner 3 at Blackhawk but could not make it stick then > went wide and almost sent me into the woods. > On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Barr, Scott wrote: > >> << if you block pass them>> >> >> "Block pass"? Is that where another driver stuffs his car down inside >> you on corner entry, going too fast to make the corner, and then throws >> out the anchors in front of you in mid-corner to keep from going off? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:09 PM >> To: Norlin Engineering >> Cc: fot@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing >> >> Yikes, I think you're running in different nationals than I did. I found >> national DSR racing to be way more brutal than the regional stuff. Lots >> of bodywork replacement and goof-off to get the tire marks off. >> >> All SCCA racing is done to a much different competition standard than >> vintage racing. Donuts on the side of your car is just part of the game. >> "Racing room" is a tenuous concept when the other guy really NEEDS the >> same spot you plan to occupy. And that leads to the only thing I'd >> caution you about. Switching from SCCA to "real" vintage racing takes >> some mental discipline. Even the SCCA vintage is supposed to be >> non-contact but the stewards generally are nowhere near as tough on it, >> and the racing reflects that. When you move to an organization that will >> put you on the trailer for a love tap, and drivers who will be >> righteously pissed if you block pass them, you need a calmer approach. >> >> >> >> On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: >> >>> Next year, I think I'll limit my "real" racing to Nationals. Fewer >>> cars and better drivers. I can easily change the configuration back >>> and forthby changing to a fiberglass bonnet and slicks for the >>> Nationals and back to the steel bonnet and treadded tires for vintage. >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 13:22:26 2008 From: To: RACER BUD , Jerry Barr Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:22:16 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Here's my five cents, Vintage racing exists because people wanted to get away from the SCCA model as it existed in the late seventies/early eighties and get back to the way racing was in the fifties and early sixties. I believe a "dual purpose" car can be driven on the road and on the track, not bounce between vintage and SCCA. I left the SCCA when they canned D production in the eighties, I roll my eyes at the guys who want to take their HP cars vintage racing now due to the SCCA's current revision of HP. I agree with the folks who were there, and have told me that in 1960 racing was fun and by 1966 it was darn near professional. I frown on folks who remove their headlights, gut their interiors and generally modify their cars beyond the '67 GCR. I also disagree with the notion that a U-2 Trans-AM 510 or 2002 is a significant vintage car. This doesn't leave me with many choices of places to race so many times I bite my lip and go race with cars I consider overprepared and out of period. I have pretty much sworn off any SCCA sponsered "vintage event" and anything put on by HSR. I leave when cars with flares and slicks come out on the track. My most enjoyable events have been with organizations that encourage period preparation in groups of cars that are like mine. Long live the '67 GCR...........................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, NM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 14:42:01 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , "Jerry Barr" , "Barr, Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:41:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I think I have figured it out...but have not found an answer that will not bang up cars....Having begun SCCA racing in 1968 at 21 years old, and currently vintage racing at 61 years old..... Now about the driving....Well, It's a Catch-22....In order to race our vintage cars the way we raced them when they were not vintage, we have to drive to that slightly more aggressive edge(SCCA Style)...That 'slight' edge is a HUGE difference...possibly described by the feeling one gets in a vintage race when we pass inside, smoke our tires, and say "Oh Oh", am i gonna get him in the door?..I know, at that point, that I am overdriving for a vintage event, even though my racing experience naturally wants me to drive at that level.... What I do to keep myself reined in is to remind myself that vintage is not about agressive driving....This is very difficult for me to do, because Truly Period Correct Racing would be very agressive... So there you have it...It just won't work!....sometimes I feel like my little Spitfire is stretching out it's bonnet like a race horse extends it's neck,, and is saying "Please Racer Bud...will you please let me 'Kick It In, I know We can do this'....In vintage events we just can't drive these old friends of ours like they want to be driven.. Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: dos_gusanos@msn.com To: RACER BUD ; Jerry Barr ; Barr, Scott Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Here's my five cents, Vintage racing exists because people wanted to get away from the SCCA model as it existed in the late seventies/early eighties and get back to the way racing was in the fifties and early sixties. I believe a "dual purpose" car can be driven on the road and on the track, not bounce between vintage and SCCA. I left the SCCA when they canned D production in the eighties, I roll my eyes at the guys who want to take their HP cars vintage racing now due to the SCCA's current revision of HP. I agree with the folks who were there, and have told me that in 1960 racing was fun and by 1966 it was darn near professional. I frown on folks who remove their headlights, gut their interiors and generally modify their cars beyond the '67 GCR. I also disagree with the notion that a U-2 Trans-AM 510 or 2002 is a significant vintage car. This doesn't leave me with many choices of places to race so many times I bite my lip and go race with cars I consider overprepared and out of period. I have pretty much sworn off any SCCA sponsered "vintage event" and anything put on by HSR. I leave when cars with flares and slicks come out on the track. My most enjoyable events have been with organizations that encourage period preparation in groups of cars that are like mine. Long live the '67 GCR...........................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, NM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 14:55:45 2008 From: "Craig" To: "Joe Curry" , "'Bill Babcock'" , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:00:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Is that why they didn't work right Craig just a little fun ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" ; "'David W. Riddle'" Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > Did anybody out there have a Texas Instruments Home Computer (99/4)? I > wrote the Technical Reference manual for that product back in 1979. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:45 AM > To: David W. Riddle > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > I have an Osborne 1 blocking part of the stairway to my shop. All the > rest of my ancient hardware went to the dump long ago. The Osborne > still works (if you can call it that). > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 8:20 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > >> At 07:50 AM 10/23/2008, Bill Babcock wrote: >>> I think we must have been hanging out in the same places. George >>> Morrow (Morrow Computers, one of the early CP/M brands) said way >>> back in the 70's "Anyone who believes what programmers say deserves >>> what happens to them". >> >> There's a name from the wayback machine. I have two systems on a >> shelf in the garage that run CP/M. A Victor 9000 that an Uncle of >> mine designed. Runs both CP/M 86 and MS-DOS. The 5 MB hard drive >> in one of them is running MS-DOS 1.25j. Maybe a Vintage Processing >> class? >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 14:59:40 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: RACER BUD Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:59:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Gee, Bud, I think maybe you DID figure it out. I never thought about it that way. I agree about the catch 22. I know the main reason I want good brakes is so I can go faster, but not T-Boning someone else is also part of the equation. On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:41 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > I think I have figured it out...but have not found an answer that > will not > bang up cars....Having begun SCCA racing in 1968 at 21 years old, and > currently vintage racing at 61 years old..... > > Now about the driving....Well, It's a Catch-22....In order to race > our vintage > cars the way we raced them when they were not vintage, we have to > drive to > that slightly more aggressive edge(SCCA Style)...That 'slight' edge > is a HUGE > difference...possibly described by the feeling one gets in a vintage > race when > we pass inside, smoke our tires, and say "Oh Oh", am i gonna get him > in the > door?..I know, at that point, that I am overdriving for a vintage > event, even > though my racing experience naturally wants me to drive at that > level.... > What I do to keep myself reined in is to remind myself that vintage > is not > about agressive driving....This is very difficult for me to do, > because Truly > Period Correct Racing would be very agressive... > So there you have it...It just won't work!....sometimes I feel like > my little > Spitfire is stretching out it's bonnet like a race horse extends > it's neck,, > and is saying "Please Racer Bud...will you please let me 'Kick It > In, I know > We can do this'....In vintage events we just can't drive these old > friends of > ours like they want to be driven.. > Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 > ----- Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 15:01:17 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Craig'" , "'Bill Babcock'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:01:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 They worked just fine. However, the Engineers at TI who posed as marketing gurus didn't have the faintest idea how to sell them properly. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:01 PM To: Joe Curry; 'Bill Babcock'; 'David W. Riddle' Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Is that why they didn't work right Craig just a little fun _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 15:10:36 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Joe Curry Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:10:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 A common problem. At a lot of technology companies any engineer who couldn't hack it wound up in sales or marketing. Tektronix was a perfect example. They insisted on marketing that looked like spec sheets--"you have to include the fazamma feature, people need to know we can fazamma" HP was the blessed exception. I never met an HP marketer that wasn't first rate. their biggest problem was they were all used to being the smartest people in the room. More than three of them in a meeting and you had trouble. On Oct 23, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > They worked just fine. However, the Engineers at TI who posed as > marketing > gurus didn't have the faintest idea how to sell them properly. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr@comcast.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:01 PM > To: Joe Curry; 'Bill Babcock'; 'David W. Riddle' > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 > > Is that why they didn't work right > Craig > just a little fun > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 15:16:20 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:16:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Maybe that was why TI sold the Data Systems Group to HP in 1987. Joe C. _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb@bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:10 PM To: Joe Curry Cc: 'Craig'; 'David W. Riddle'; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 A common problem. At a lot of technology companies any engineer who couldn't hack it wound up in sales or marketing. Tektronix was a perfect example. They insisted on marketing that looked like spec sheets--"you have to include the fazamma feature, people need to know we can fazamma" HP was the blessed exception. I never met an HP marketer that wasn't first rate. their biggest problem was they were all used to being the smartest people in the room. More than three of them in a meeting and you had trouble. On Oct 23, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Joe Curry wrote: They worked just fine. However, the Engineers at TI who posed as marketing gurus didn't have the faintest idea how to sell them properly. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:01 PM To: Joe Curry; 'Bill Babcock'; 'David W. Riddle' Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Is that why they didn't work right Craig just a little fun Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 15:23:50 2008 From: To: Bill Babcock , RACER BUD Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:23:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I've really got no problem with the driving attitude that I've seen at any of the vintage events I've ever been to. There are always isolated events and every time I've screwed up my car, I've screwed up my car, not someone else. My thing is if we're going to race VW Rabbits, I'll go get one, but throwing them out there with the vintage cars just goes against my sense of what's right............................Henry Morrison> CC: dos_gusanos@msn.com; jerrybarr@charter.net; sbarr@mccarty-law.com; fot@autox.team.net> From: Billb@bnj.com> To: budscars@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:59:33 -0700> > Gee, Bud, I think maybe you DID figure it out. I never thought about > it that way. I agree about the catch 22. I know the main reason I want > good brakes is so I can go faster, but not T-Boning someone else is > also part of the equation.> > On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:41 PM, RACER BUD wrote:> > > I think I have figured it out...but have not found an answer that > > will not> > bang up cars....Having begun SCCA racing in 1968 at 21 years old, and> > currently vintage racing at 61 years old.....> >> > Now about the driving....Well, It's a Catch-22....In order to race > > our vintage> > cars the way we raced them when they were not vintage, we have to > > drive to> > that slightly more aggressive edge(SCCA Style)...That 'slight' edge > > is a HUGE> > difference...possibly described by the feeling one gets in a vintage > > race when> > we pass inside, smoke our tires, and say "Oh Oh", am i gonna get him > > in the> > door?..I know, at that point, that I am overdriving for a vintage > > event, even> > though my racing experience naturally wants me to drive at that > > level....> > What I do to keep myself reined in is to remind myself that vintage > > is not> > about agressive driving....This is very difficult for me to do, > > because Truly> > Period Correct Racing would be very agressive...> > So there you have it...It just won't work!....sometimes I feel like > > my little> > Spitfire is stretching out it's bonnet like a race horse extends > > it's neck,,> > and is saying "Please Racer Bud...will you please let me 'Kick It > > In, I know> > We can do this'....In vintage events we just can't drive these old > > friends of> > ours like they want to be driven..> > Racer Bud..Spitfire #21> > ----- Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 15:35:23 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: , "Bill Babcock" , "RACER BUD" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:32:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing << throwing them out there with the vintage cars just goes against my sense of what's right >> Reminds me of the time our club (Midwestern Council) threw a quite recent Formula 1 car and Indycar in with the vintage group at a race at Road America. I, um, had missed the drivers' meeting, where I'm sure they warned everyone about this, because I was, er, still unloading my car. I made it to the grid after the first cars had pulled out, or I would have seen them. The first I knew of it was when I looked in my mirrors near the end of the front straight and saw a tiny speck of a car waaaaaaay back there and thought to myself "hey....does that car have...wings??" By the time I finished that thought, the tiny speck of a car had grown large and loud and screamed past and through turn 1. There's a bit of a difference between a Spitfire and an F1 car. Especially at the end of the Road America front straight. ________________________________ From: dos_gusanos@msn.com [mailto:dos_gusanos@msn.com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 4:24 PM To: Bill Babcock; RACER BUD Cc: Jerry Barr; Barr, Scott; Friends of Triumph Subject: RE: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I've really got no problem with the driving attitude that I've seen at any of the vintage events I've ever been to. There are always isolated events and every time I've screwed up my car, I've screwed up my car, not someone else. My thing is if we're going to race VW Rabbits, I'll go get one, but throwing them out there with the vintage cars just goes against my sense of what's right............................Henry Morrison > CC: dos_gusanos@msn.com; jerrybarr@charter.net; sbarr@mccarty-law.com; fot@autox.team.net > From: Billb@bnj.com > To: budscars@comcast.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:59:33 -0700 > > Gee, Bud, I think maybe you DID figure it out. I never thought about > it that way. I agree about the catch 22. I know the main reason I want > good brakes is so I can go faster, but not T-Boning someone else is > also part of the equation. > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:41 PM, RACER BUD wrote: _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 15:54:51 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Barr, Scott" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:54:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Yeah. I always think Peyote is fast until I get on the track with the USRRC group. Nothing like having a McLaren blow by you to get your head on straight. Of course it IS the best seat in the house to watch that kind of thing. On Oct 23, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Barr, Scott wrote: > << throwing them out there with the vintage cars just goes against > my sense of what's right >> > > Reminds me of the time our club (Midwestern Council) threw a quite > recent Formula 1 car and Indycar in with the vintage group at a race > at Road America. I, um, had missed the drivers' meeting, where I'm > sure they warned everyone about this, because I was, er, still > unloading my car. I made it to the grid after the first cars had > pulled out, or I would have seen them. The first I knew of it was > when I looked in my mirrors near the end of the front straight and > saw a tiny speck of a car waaaaaaay back there and thought to myself > "hey....does that car have...wings??" By the time I finished that > thought, the tiny speck of a car had grown large and loud and > screamed past and through turn 1. > > There's a bit of a difference between a Spitfire and an F1 car. > Especially at the end of the Road America front straight. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 16:08:24 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Bill Babcock Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:03:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing Where is the one board video???? A Sent from my iPod Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca 68 Triumph GT6 MK1 http://www.gt6.ca On 23-Oct-08, at 17:54, Bill Babcock wrote: > Yeah. I always think Peyote is fast until I get on the track with the > USRRC group. Nothing like having a McLaren blow by you to get your > head on straight. Of course it IS the best seat in the house to watch > that kind of thing. > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Barr, Scott wrote: > >> << throwing them out there with the vintage cars just goes against >> my sense of what's right >> >> >> Reminds me of the time our club (Midwestern Council) threw a quite >> recent Formula 1 car and Indycar in with the vintage group at a race >> at Road America. I, um, had missed the drivers' meeting, where I'm >> sure they warned everyone about this, because I was, er, still >> unloading my car. I made it to the grid after the first cars had >> pulled out, or I would have seen them. The first I knew of it was >> when I looked in my mirrors near the end of the front straight and >> saw a tiny speck of a car waaaaaaay back there and thought to myself >> "hey....does that car have...wings??" By the time I finished that >> thought, the tiny speck of a car had grown large and loud and >> screamed past and through turn 1. >> >> There's a bit of a difference between a Spitfire and an F1 car. >> Especially at the end of the Road America front straight. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 16:41:12 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , "Bill Babcock" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:41:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I see what you're getting at, although I believe Rabbits were the same era as the later TR6....and SCCA is making a strong push into vintage racing..they need to fill the grids..I found that , at least out here in San Fran Region SCCA, if a racer wants to change groups, it is generally well accommodated.. Racer bud ----- Original Message ----- From: dos_gusanos@msn.com To: Bill Babcock ; RACER BUD Cc: Jerry Barr ; Barr, Scott ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing I've really got no problem with the driving attitude that I've seen at any of the vintage events I've ever been to. There are always isolated events and every time I've screwed up my car, I've screwed up my car, not someone else. My thing is if we're going to race VW Rabbits, I'll go get one, but throwing them out there with the vintage cars just goes against my sense of what's right............................Henry Morrison > CC: dos_gusanos@msn.com; jerrybarr@charter.net; sbarr@mccarty-law.com; fot@autox.team.net > From: Billb@bnj.com > To: budscars@comcast.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:59:33 -0700 > > Gee, Bud, I think maybe you DID figure it out. I never thought about > it that way. I agree about the catch 22. I know the main reason I want > good brakes is so I can go faster, but not T-Boning someone else is > also part of the equation. > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:41 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > > > I think I have figured it out...but have not found an answer that > > will not > > bang up cars....Having begun SCCA racing in 1968 at 21 years old, and > > currently vintage racing at 61 years old..... > > > > Now about the driving....Well, It's a Catch-22....In order to race > > our vintage > > cars the way we raced them when they were not vintage, we have to > > drive to > > that slightly more aggressive edge(SCCA Style)...That 'slight' edge > > is a HUGE > > difference...possibly described by the feeling one gets in a vintage > > race when > > we pass inside, smoke our tires, and say "Oh Oh", am i gonna get him > > in the > > door?..I know, at that point, that I am overdriving for a vintage > > event, even > > though my racing experience naturally wants me to drive at that > > level.... > > What I do to keep myself reined in is to remind myself that vintage > > is not > > about agressive driving....This is very difficult for me to do, > > because Truly > > Period Correct Racing would be very agressive... > > So there you have it...It just won't work!....sometimes I feel like > > my little > > Spitfire is stretching out it's bonnet like a race horse extends > > it's neck,, > > and is saying "Please Racer Bud...will you please let me 'Kick It > > In, I know > > We can do this'....In vintage events we just can't drive these old > > friends of > > ours like they want to be driven.. > > Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 > > ----- Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 18:30:46 2008 From: Tony Drews To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:30:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Very cool. Did my first programming on a TI-99, and figured out how to hook the family cassette recorder up to it to save and reload the program (a crappy pac-man rip-off). Graduated to a Kaypro "luggable" using CP/M and its' awful version of Basic. Was the last year of the punch card programming class at Univ of Illinois. Took one semester of assembly language and after the interesting first 3 weeks of novelty decided I HATED assembly language programming. A hundred line program to sort a linked list of numbers? Give me a break! - Tony Drews At 11:20 AM 10/23/2008, Joe Curry wrote: >Did anybody out there have a Texas Instruments Home Computer (99/4)? I >wrote the Technical Reference manual for that product back in 1979. > >Joe C. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 18:40:41 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Tony Drews Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:40:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 My first expansion chamber program too three boxes of punch card FORTRAN. What a pleasure it was to translate it into MBasic and store it on a 5 1/2" floppy disk. I later rewrote it and refined it in Turbo Pascal. No idea where it is now. On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Tony Drews wrote: > Very cool. Did my first programming on a TI-99, and figured out how > to hook the family cassette recorder up to it to save and reload the > program (a crappy pac-man rip-off). Graduated to a Kaypro > "luggable" using CP/M and its' awful version of Basic. Was the last > year of the punch card programming class at Univ of Illinois. Took > one semester of assembly language and after the interesting first 3 > weeks of novelty decided I HATED assembly language programming. A > hundred line program to sort a linked list of numbers? Give me a > break! > > - Tony Drews > > At 11:20 AM 10/23/2008, Joe Curry wrote: _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 19:15:52 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'Tony Drews'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:15:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 My first job at TI was maintaining equipment that was used to test integrated circuits. The heart of the system was a TI Mini computer. The cold boot process consisted of inputting several 16 bit "words" into the computer using micro switches on the front panel. This process told the system how to interface with the card reader. After that was performed, the "Executive Command Routine" was loaded via the card reader. That then allowed the user to load he program being used to test the particular product. The process took about a half hour on a good day so we never turned them off or we lost productivity. One day one of the operators decided that she was going to save energy while she went to lunch and turned it off. :( Her supervisor bounced off every wall in the building. Needless to say, she never did that again. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 5:40 PM To: Tony Drews Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 My first expansion chamber program too three boxes of punch card FORTRAN. What a pleasure it was to translate it into MBasic and store it on a 5 1/2" floppy disk. I later rewrote it and refined it in Turbo Pascal. No idea where it is now. On Oct 23, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Tony Drews wrote: > Very cool. Did my first programming on a TI-99, and figured out how > to hook the family cassette recorder up to it to save and reload the > program (a crappy pac-man rip-off). Graduated to a Kaypro > "luggable" using CP/M and its' awful version of Basic. Was the last > year of the punch card programming class at Univ of Illinois. Took > one semester of assembly language and after the interesting first 3 > weeks of novelty decided I HATED assembly language programming. A > hundred line program to sort a linked list of numbers? Give me a > break! > > - Tony Drews > > At 11:20 AM 10/23/2008, Joe Curry wrote: Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 19:36:51 2008 From: "David W. Riddle" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:38:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of F1 Must have been on one of those old systems that you threw out. Looks like someone found it... :) http://buildandclick.com/ At 05:40 PM 10/23/2008, you wrote: >My first expansion chamber program too three boxes of punch card >FORTRAN. What a pleasure it was to translate it into MBasic and store >it on a 5 1/2" floppy disk. I later rewrote it and refined it in Turbo >Pascal. No idea where it is now. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 20:51:33 2008 From: "Phil Hyer" To: "Scott Janzen" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:51:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Tees, Hey Scott, I Emailed Ted a while back after he contacted Glen Effinger about this . I corrected my order then by ordering a medium t-shirt for Glen instead of the large I ordered originally for him previously, along with an extra large t-shirt for myself. I also wanted an extra large deniem shirt and a khaki hat for myself. Hopefully it not too late to correct this . Also I could you pass along to me Ted`s # so I can arrainge payment with him. If you need to contact me my # is (954) 801-6694. Thanks, Phil On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > Ok -folks, one last time! for those of you that did not get these at the > Glen, Ted Schumacher is ready to do one more run of tee shirts, embroidered > denim shirts and baseball caps. I have orders from some of you - see your > names down below. The website with photos of all the garb is at the link > below. If you want anything email me before Friday. Due to an ordering > screw-up, we already have the following - (2) XL and (4) XXL blue denim > embroidered shirts. Tees are $15, $1 extra for each size above XL, Denim > shirts are $30, caps are $16. Part of the payment goes to a donation to > Motorsports Ministries in Jack Drews' name - nice way to remember Jack, whose > name and dates are printed on one of the tee shirt sleeves. > > Please call Ted with your payment info. > > I also need shipping info - that goes for those of you listed below as well. > Thanks! > http://www.freewebs.com:80/sjanzen/index.htm > > John Reed - Tees 1 M, 2L > Rob Deanes - Denim L > Tony Drews - 3 XXL > Phil Hyer - Tees 1 M, 1 L > Bob Davis - Tees 2 XL, 1 khaki cap > Tim Williams - Tee 1 L > Andre Russo - Denim size? > Tom Kreger - tee 3 XL > Gary Fusqua - 1 L Denim, 1 L Khaki > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 05:34:24 2008 From: Ernest Husmann To: Friends of Triumph Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Replying from digest, etc. Taking off on what Susan has requested, if the subject changes please change the subject line. From time to time I find that I have missed a good subject because of my delete finger going after 50 replies on any given subject like F1. That's my rant for the day, thank you. Ernie --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Susan Kahler wrote: From: Susan Kahler Subject: [Fot] Replying from digest, etc. To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 1:29 PM Hey everyone, When you reply to the list from a digest or someone who has replied from a digest, would you please strip the 330 unnecessary messages from your reply before you send? Thank you! Susan :) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 06:07:33 2008 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:07:19 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] F-1 (Crankcase Oil Use Unveiled) In a message dated 10/23/2008 10:26:38 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, N197TR4@cs.com writes: Joe I think you overlooked a very important point in the previous email below about the use of crankcase oils. Clearly, the Triumph engineers intended our cars to leak crankcase oil so that we could study the under carriages aerodynamics. I wonder what other revelations we will be able to find out in the future? Cary Just a comment...... In the late 50s, Jim Bede, used tiny perforations in the flying surfaces in order to control laminar flow. Not very cost effective at the time, but with modern manufacturing methods, it might be more feasible. Maybe it wasnt even functionally effective, but an interesting idea. F-1 and others have may have pursued this, but I wonder about that, too. Jim Bede was the originator the BD-5 & BD 5J microjet used in the Bond Movies and one was also owned and flown by Richard Bach....(Jonathon Livingston Seagull). > FYI - Response from a retired Aeronautical Engineer friend of mine that I > shared your interesting, the state of F1, conversation. Thought you might > appreciate his words on the subject. > Bob Johns > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gregory Foster > To: Robert Johns > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 > > > Aero and hydro dynamics are always interesting subjects which I could > talk at length on because I spent the last 15 years of my career dealing with > them when we were building high speed underwater vehicles. Also since my > hobby is flying sailplanes, it is a constant topic of conversation along with > "secret" airfoils and "secret" wing finishes to either eliminate or at least > carefully control transitions from laminar to turbulent flow. Most of it is > BS > but some is not. A recent development suggests there may be a new one coming > along. see http://www.standardcirrus.org/ A technique used in gliders is to > smear used crankcase oil that is good and black along a 2 foot section of a > wing and then go fly the plane and see how the oil streaked off the wing. > The > location ( cordwise) of any transition to turbulent airflow is very visible > in the remaining oil smears. Then we know where to place strips of > "deturbulator" tapes. > > I have been through several classes on turbulence including the > Mendelbrot techniques discussed in the Fot. He is a math genius and his > theories of "Chaos", when applied to turbulence result in very strange > phenomenal (in theory). As a personal hobby project I tried very hard to > apply some of his theory to stock market analysis (if that isn't chaos, what > is?) and it will take someone smarter than I am to produce something useful. > I could show that his theory applies to the market but I wanted a form of > predictor and failed to get such a result. It is called "looking for a > "strange" attractor". The word strange has a definite, specific meaning in > his theory. > > Greg Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 06:35:59 2008 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: Group44TR7@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:35:32 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question In a message dated 10/24/2008 5:27:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Group44TR7 writes: Amici BBC America this morning is reporting declines in overseas stock markets in the range 7 to 10%. One has to wonder about the degree to which this "economic tsunami" this is going to impact both professional and amateur racing around the world. In every bad situation, there is usually a silver lining. Perhaps open wheel racing in North America will be forced into consolidating its efforts. I would love to se a professional open wheel series where the cars were identical and it was the only drivers/setup that made the difference. Just how this is going to shake out on the vintage will be interesting too. Many of the big events like Monterey have company sponsorship behind them. And I expect that the average vintage racer is going to be more restricted and selective too. So a question to the group, how is the economic tsunami going to impact your racing plans for 2009? Cary **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 07:18:39 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: Group44TR7@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:18:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Group44TR7@aol.com wrote: > So a question to the group, how is the economic tsunami going to >impact your racing plans for 2009? > >Cary Cary The contrarian view is to invest during the down market and prepare to reap the rewards of the uptick. Of course, that is exactly what I am doing. In 2009 I plan to travel to the Columbia River Classic for the FOT/Kastner Cup extravaganza of Team Talbott and Babcock in late August. The FOT should consider having a Leisure Suit Contest in honor of Uncle Jack. Joe A > > > > > > > > > > >**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy >steps! >(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf >ooter) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 08:11:47 2008 From: To: , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:10:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Ohhhhhhh, I maybe slow on the track, but I've got a very nice Leisure Suit...............Henry Morrison> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:18:14 -0400> From: N197TR4@cs.com> To: Group44TR7@aol.com> CC: fot@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question> > Group44TR7@aol.com wrote:> > > So a question to the group, how is the economic tsunami going to > >impact your racing plans for 2009? > >> >Cary> > Cary> > The contrarian view is to invest during the down market and prepare to reap the rewards of the uptick.> > Of course, that is exactly what I am doing.> > In 2009 I plan to travel to the Columbia River Classic for the FOT/Kastner Cup extravaganza of Team Talbott and Babcock in late August.> > The FOT should consider having a Leisure Suit Contest in honor of Uncle Jack.> > Joe A > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > >steps! > >(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf> >ooter)> >_______________________________________________> >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> >http://www.fot-racing.com> >> >Fot mailing list> >Fot@autox.team.net> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 08:46:51 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Group44TR7@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 07:46:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question So far, not at all. > > So a question to the group, how is the economic tsunami > going to > impact your racing plans for 2009? > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just > 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx > ?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf > ooter) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 09:23:03 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Craig'" , <6-Pack@autox.team.net>, "'FOT Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:22:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] Triumph on TV alert I wasn't sure myself because they never showed a full shot of it. When I saw the shot of the front clip, the side light sorta looked like that of a TR250 but there was no stripe. When the camera panned down the side (from mid-front fender, it didn't look to me to be the TR4/250 body style. Hopefully someone got a better shot than I saw. They didn't dwell on any shot long enough to get a 100 percent confident reading. Joe. -----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:13 AM To: 6-Pack@autox.team.net; FOT (E-mail); Triumphs@autox.team.net; Joe Curry Subject: Re: [TR] Triumph on TV alert I thought it was a Tr250 some body will get a picture of it Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:28 PM Subject: [TR] Triumph on TV alert > There is a TR6 on today's CSI. > > > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > You are subscribed as wensley_tr@comcast.net > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 09:29:11 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:28:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Isn't the Indy Series exactly what you describe? All the cars use Honda engines and look alike although I think there are multiple chassis suppliers, I think they work from the same basic spec. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 5:36 AM To: Group44TR7@aol.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question In a message dated 10/24/2008 5:27:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Group44TR7 writes: Amici I would love to se a professional open wheel series where the cars were identical and it was the only drivers/setup that made the difference. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 09:34:53 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:34:38 +0200 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question I suspect people to invest more into real estate instead of fonds - so from this point I will enter next season with two racing engines - civil engineers hope for the best. Chris _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 09:54:36 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: "Joe Curry" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:54:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question And as exciting as watching paint dry or a NASCAR taxicab race. On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > Isn't the Indy Series exactly what you describe? All the cars use > Honda > engines and look alike although I think there are multiple chassis > suppliers, I think they work from the same basic spec. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Group44TR7@aol.com > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 5:36 AM > To: Group44TR7@aol.com > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & > Question > > In a message dated 10/24/2008 5:27:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > Group44TR7 > writes: > > Amici > > I would love to se a professional open wheel series where the cars > were > identical and it was the only drivers/setup that made the difference. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:08:52 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Jerry Barr'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:08:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Exactly my point, Jerry! Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr@charter.net] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:54 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: Group44TR7@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question And as exciting as watching paint dry or a NASCAR taxicab race. On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > Isn't the Indy Series exactly what you describe? All the cars use > Honda > engines and look alike although I think there are multiple chassis > suppliers, I think they work from the same basic spec. > > Joe C. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:19:05 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:18:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Hey now that's an awesome idea. Turn the Nascar cars into 4 seaters and paying customers can run the whole race in the back seat! Now that would be cool. A. 2008/10/24 Joe Curry > Exactly my point, Jerry! > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr@charter.net] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:54 AM > To: Joe Curry > Cc: Group44TR7@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & > Question > > And as exciting as watching paint dry or a NASCAR taxicab race. > On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Joe Curry wrote: _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:49:05 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Joe Curry" , "'Jerry Barr'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:48:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question If Nascar is Not exciting to watch, why is it so popular?... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Jerry Barr'" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question > Exactly my point, Jerry! > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr@charter.net] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:54 AM > To: Joe Curry > Cc: Group44TR7@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & > Question > > And as exciting as watching paint dry or a NASCAR taxicab race. > On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> Isn't the Indy Series exactly what you describe? All the cars use >> Honda >> engines and look alike although I think there are multiple chassis >> suppliers, I think they work from the same basic spec. >> >> Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:50:30 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: "Andre Rousseau" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:50:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question At the rate they are losing fans that may be necessary. On Oct 24, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > Hey now that's an awesome idea. > Turn the Nascar cars into 4 seaters and paying customers can run the > whole > race in the back seat! > > Now that would be cool. > > A. > > 2008/10/24 Joe Curry > >> Exactly my point, Jerry! >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr@charter.net] >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:54 AM >> To: Joe Curry >> Cc: Group44TR7@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & >> Question >> >> And as exciting as watching paint dry or a NASCAR taxicab race. >> On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:54:32 2008 From: Robert Lang To: RACER BUD Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question On Fri, 24 Oct 2008, RACER BUD wrote: > If Nascar is Not exciting to watch, why is it so popular?... There's no way to answer this one without offending pretty much everyone. :-b > Racer Bud rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:56:23 2008 From: Robert Lang To: Jerry Barr Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question On Fri, 24 Oct 2008, Jerry Barr wrote: > At the rate they are losing fans that may be necessary. Car of Tommorrow / Car of Today == JOKE I'm with Tony Stuart on the tire thing. Watching paint drying isn't so bad, come to think if it. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:58:55 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'RACER BUD'" , "'Jerry Barr'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:58:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question I think it has to do with Redneck mentality and all the door banging that goes on. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:49 AM To: Joe Curry; 'Jerry Barr' Cc: Group44TR7@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question If Nascar is Not exciting to watch, why is it so popular?... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Jerry Barr'" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question > Exactly my point, Jerry! > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr@charter.net] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:54 AM > To: Joe Curry > Cc: Group44TR7@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & > Question > > And as exciting as watching paint dry or a NASCAR taxicab race. > On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> Isn't the Indy Series exactly what you describe? All the cars use >> Honda >> engines and look alike although I think there are multiple chassis >> suppliers, I think they work from the same basic spec. >> >> Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:59:19 2008 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: lang@isis.mit.edu, budscars@comcast.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:59:07 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Look at the bright side, the NASCAR stadiums will be good places for the gladiators, their lots of room to keep the horses, plenty of room for the horses and chariots to race, In a message dated 10/24/2008 8:54:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, lang@isis.mit.edu writes: On Fri, 24 Oct 2008, RACER BUD wrote: > If Nascar is Not exciting to watch, why is it so popular?... There's no way to answer this one without offending pretty much everyone. :-b > Racer Bud rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:59:57 2008 From: "Terry Stetler" To: "RACER BUD" , "Robert Lang" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:59:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question For the past couple years Mid Ohio has had a twin bill weekend with the ALMS cars racing on Saturday, and the IRL cars on Sunday. The ALMS cars are almost as fast as the IRL spec racers. The ALMS race is not boring, the IRL race is. I never stay anymore for the IRL cars on Sunday. Terry Stetler. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:00:37 2008 From: Gasket Works USA To: "RACER BUD" , "Robert Lang" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:00:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] radiator math... Although I have searched google for automobile radiator math calculators I have not found something useful yet. Particularly, the differences between Alum vs. Copper tubes. So, assuming same HP output and all other factors being equal --How much less surface area is needed for an aluminum radiator vs. copper? M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:14:11 2008 From: Tony Drews To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:13:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Some of us LIKE Nascar racing. (And Drag Racing, and ALMS and F1 and V-8 Touring car and ...) - Tony _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:15:24 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Terry Stetler" , "Robert Lang" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:15:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question I agree...the IRL race at infineon had virtually no passing..and they adjust the course so the cars aren't going too fast through turn 10.??. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Stetler To: RACER BUD ; Robert Lang Cc: Group44TR7@aol.com ; fot@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question For the past couple years Mid Ohio has had a twin bill weekend with the ALMS cars racing on Saturday, and the IRL cars on Sunday. The ALMS cars are almost as fast as the IRL spec racers. The ALMS race is not boring, the IRL race is. I never stay anymore for the IRL cars on Sunday. Terry Stetler. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:16:20 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , "Tony Drews" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:16:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question I'm with you...It's ONE BIG FAMILY!! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Drews" To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question > Some of us LIKE Nascar racing. > (And Drag Racing, and ALMS and F1 and V-8 Touring car and ...) > > - Tony > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:24:54 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Group44TR7@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:24:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] NASCAR NASCAR has done a tremendous marketing job. the only thing that works against them is the old maxim--the fastest way to kill a bad product is to market it well. And the truth is that the product isn't that bad. For the most part the fans can watch the race in it's entirety, there's lots of drama, and tons of personality. By comparison CART/IRL is a thin gruel--the arrogant french pouf vs. the boorish canadian who's not afraid to trow a punch or bash a fender. And let's not overestimate the sophistication of the available audience. "Wrestling", reality TV, Jerry Springer, American politics. Need I say more. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:32:27 2008 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:32:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... Amici... Bob Wismer and I are leaving for BLACKHAWK FARMS RACEWAY and this week end's 38th running of THAT LOOONG RACE. I'm racing my TR3 in Midwestern Council's 'exciting' V/H group (see Scott Barr's description earlier this week). Wismer is running his S2 in one of the 'long' races. That's the good news. The bad news is Saturday's weather shows a high of 53 degrees and showers. Sunday predicts a low of 30, high of 53, windy and possible snow flurries. I need some professional help making decisions. Bill (Damdinger) PS...My second passion in life is handicapping horse races. The Breeders Cup is this week end. I should be a a whole different race track. I'd be much warmer, and would spend a lot less money. ************** Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:33:42 2008 From: "Tim Murphy" To: "Gasket Works USA" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:33:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] radiator math... This is from a thread on the FOT from 1/30/2007, "Aluminum Radiators. "According to Ron Davis Radiators, the heat transfer coefficient for brass radiators is 100.6 and for aluminum is 111 making aluminum +10% more efficient. Aluminum has a density of 2.70 grams/cubic cm, brass is 8.4 grams/cubic cm and copper is 8.96 grams/cubic cm. For comparison, stainless steel is 7.9 grams/cubic cm. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6" You might also contact Scott at Wizard Cooling. They built our "replica" aluminum radiator for our 1961 TR4 vintage racer. As I recall, he had quite a bit of information on aluminum versus copper. :"Scott Attig" Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gasket Works USA" Cc: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:00 PM Subject: [Fot] radiator math... > Although I have searched google for automobile radiator math calculators > I have not found something useful yet. Particularly, the differences > between Alum vs. Copper tubes. > > So, assuming same HP output and all other factors being equal --How much > less surface area is needed for an aluminum radiator vs. copper? > > M.N.Dunst > > Gasket Works USA, LLC > > gmt-8 Pacific time > > 626.358.1616 voice > > 626.628.3777 fax > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:37:43 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Tony Drews'" , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:37:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question I like Drag Racing, particularly the shows that are on ESPN with the Top Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars, but I have never found anything that will make me want to watch NASCAR. Too much car punting and not enough pure racing for my taste. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:14 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Some of us LIKE Nascar racing. (And Drag Racing, and ALMS and F1 and V-8 Touring car and ...) - Tony Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:43:59 2008 From: "Tim Murphy" To: , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:43:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... Ryan and I were planning on going but took a long look at the weather and decided against it. Didn't think it would be much fun freezing our butts off in the paddock to say nothing of racing an open car in 50 degree damp weather. And we're from Wisconsin where we're supposed to be used to this kind of thing! As Peter Egan has said: "Even the most diehard Wisconsinites tend to be somewhat ambivalent about their own winter weather, after all. What can you say about a state where the primary defense of deer hunting is "If we don't shoot 'em, they'll freeze." Tony Drews was thinking of going also but I think he decided against it also. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:32 PM Subject: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... > Amici... > > Bob Wismer and I are leaving for BLACKHAWK FARMS RACEWAY and this week > end's > 38th running of THAT LOOONG RACE. I'm racing my TR3 in Midwestern > Council's > 'exciting' V/H group (see Scott Barr's description earlier this week). > Wismer > is running his S2 in one of the 'long' races. That's the good news. The > bad > news is Saturday's weather shows a high of 53 degrees and showers. Sunday > predicts a low of 30, high of 53, windy and possible snow flurries. I > need > some > professional help making decisions. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > PS...My second passion in life is handicapping horse races. The Breeders > Cup > is this week end. I should be a a whole different race track. I'd be > much > warmer, and would spend a lot less money. > > > > > > ************** > Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:49:16 2008 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: timmurph@fastbytes.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:48:25 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... In a message dated 10/24/2008 12:44:11 PM Central Daylight Time, timmurph@fastbytes.com writes: > Ryan and I were planning on going but took a long look at the weather and > decided against it. Didn't think it would be much fun freezing our butts > off in the paddock to say nothing of racing an open car in 50 degree damp > weather. And we're from Wisconsin where we're supposed to be used to this > kind of thing! > > As Peter Egan has said: > > "Even the most diehard Wisconsinites tend to be somewhat ambivalent about > their own winter weather, after all. What can you say about a state where > the primary defense of deer hunting is "If we don't shoot 'em, they'll > freeze." > > Tony Drews was thinking of going also but I think he decided against it > also. > Pussies! Bill (Damdinger) ************** Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:49:34 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:49:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... You do need professional help, but not for making decisions. Here's the summary: You live in the midwest Winter arrives there as early as september it's almost november racing is a summer sport for anyone but Finns and people who think snowmobiles are fun If you go to a horse race you'll be warm and comfortable, enjoy yourself completely, and you could win some money If you do this car race you'll be cold, miserable, and you'll spend lots of money Obvious decision--go race your car. On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:32 AM, BillDentin@aol.com wrote: > Amici... > > Bob Wismer and I are leaving for BLACKHAWK FARMS RACEWAY and this > week end's > 38th running of THAT LOOONG RACE. I'm racing my TR3 in Midwestern > Council's > 'exciting' V/H group (see Scott Barr's description earlier this > week). Wismer > is running his S2 in one of the 'long' races. That's the good > news. The bad > news is Saturday's weather shows a high of 53 degrees and showers. > Sunday > predicts a low of 30, high of 53, windy and possible snow flurries. > I need > some > professional help making decisions. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > PS...My second passion in life is handicapping horse races. The > Breeders Cup > is this week end. I should be a a whole different race track. I'd > be much > warmer, and would spend a lot less money. > > > > > > ************** > Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it > out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:52:33 2008 From: "Kramer, Robert" To: Bill Babcock , "Group44TR7@aol.com" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:52:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I was not a fan of NASCAR until I went to a race with corporate group. With a sponsored car driver to root for the dynamics change, and I think that the fan base that drools over Junior or Tony or whoever has found that same dynamic. I walked down trackside by the front straight with some customer and the rush of air, the smell of rubber and fuel is intoxicating. Take in a NASCAR race live and you may start to like it....and whether you like it or not, aren't we all enjoying the rebirth of road racing with Grand Am which is tied closely to NASCAR? Combined with the ALMS we have great racing to watch. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:25 PM To: Group44TR7@aol.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] NASCAR NASCAR has done a tremendous marketing job. the only thing that works against them is the old maxim--the fastest way to kill a bad product is to market it well. And the truth is that the product isn't that bad. For the most part the fans can watch the race in it's entirety, there's lots of drama, and tons of personality. By comparison CART/IRL is a thin gruel--the arrogant french pouf vs. the boorish canadian who's not afraid to trow a punch or bash a fender. And let's not overestimate the sophistication of the available audience. "Wrestling", reality TV, Jerry Springer, American politics. Need I say more. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:56:21 2008 From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Joe Curry" , "'Tony Drews'" , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:56:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question If you ever get a chance to visit the pits at an NHRA top fuel meet...incredible. Standing close to an 8000 horsepower...that's right eight thousand., when they hit the loud pedal the shock wave is so forceful that you instinctively open your mouth so your eardrums don't explode. The machinery is just spectacular. Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: October 24, 2008 1:37 PM To: 'Tony Drews'; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question I like Drag Racing, particularly the shows that are on ESPN with the Top Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars, but I have never found anything that will make me want to watch NASCAR. Too much car punting and not enough pure racing for my taste. Joe C. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 11:57:15 2008 From: "Kramer, Robert" To: Tim Murphy , "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:57:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... You Midwest guys should come down to Texas next weekend. We are at Texas World Speedway and if the current weather holds we will see 80 degrees each afternoon. Come on down! -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tim Murphy Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:43 PM To: fot@autox.team.net; BillDentin@aol.com Cc: Ryan Murphy (work) Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... Ryan and I were planning on going but took a long look at the weather and decided against it. Didn't think it would be much fun freezing our butts off in the paddock to say nothing of racing an open car in 50 degree damp weather. And we're from Wisconsin where we're supposed to be used to this kind of thing! As Peter Egan has said: "Even the most diehard Wisconsinites tend to be somewhat ambivalent about their own winter weather, after all. What can you say about a state where the primary defense of deer hunting is "If we don't shoot 'em, they'll freeze." Tony Drews was thinking of going also but I think he decided against it also. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:32 PM Subject: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... > Amici... > > Bob Wismer and I are leaving for BLACKHAWK FARMS RACEWAY and this week > end's > 38th running of THAT LOOONG RACE. I'm racing my TR3 in Midwestern > Council's > 'exciting' V/H group (see Scott Barr's description earlier this week). > Wismer > is running his S2 in one of the 'long' races. That's the good news. The > bad > news is Saturday's weather shows a high of 53 degrees and showers. Sunday > predicts a low of 30, high of 53, windy and possible snow flurries. I > need > some > professional help making decisions. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > PS...My second passion in life is handicapping horse races. The Breeders > Cup > is this week end. I should be a a whole different race track. I'd be > much > warmer, and would spend a lot less money. > > > > > > ************** > Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 12:07:02 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Paul MacDonald" , "Joe Curry" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:05:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Just being in the stands at the start of a Top fuel dragster race is unreal...It is more than sound...I was absolutely in Awe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Joe Curry" ; "'Tony Drews'" ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question > If you ever get a chance to visit the pits at an NHRA top fuel > meet...incredible. Standing close to an 8000 horsepower...that's right > eight > thousand., when they hit the loud pedal the shock wave is so forceful that > you instinctively open your mouth so your eardrums don't explode. > > The machinery is just spectacular. > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Joe Curry > Sent: October 24, 2008 1:37 PM > To: 'Tony Drews'; fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & > Question > > > I like Drag Racing, particularly the shows that are on ESPN with the Top > Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars, but I have never found anything that will > make me want to watch NASCAR. > > Too much car punting and not enough pure racing for my taste. > > Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 12:07:30 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Joe Curry" , "'Tony Drews'" , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:07:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question I think if we get back to the Roots of racing...Car Banging is part of what racing is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Tony Drews'" ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question >I like Drag Racing, particularly the shows that are on ESPN with the Top > Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars, but I have never found anything that will > make me want to watch NASCAR. > > Too much car punting and not enough pure racing for my taste. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Tony Drews > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:14 AM > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & > Question > > Some of us LIKE Nascar racing. > (And Drag Racing, and ALMS and F1 and V-8 Touring car and ...) > > - Tony > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 12:07:31 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Kramer, Robert" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:07:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I attended Daytona as a guest of Hollywood video, the year they sponsored a car (Ricky Bobby, or Jimmy Dale Bubba, or someone like that). I went to the real parties, was so deep into the pits I got in the way during a tire change. It was kind of interesting. My best friend, the late Barney Li, dragged me to a couple of races when Eagle One (the company he founded) was Mark Martin's sponsor. We watched from up in the skyboxes, ate shrimp and stuff. Kind of fun. I accidentally went to a vintage race at PIR by myself, on my motorcycle. Didn't know a soul there. Just wandered the pits, looked at the cars, watched the races. Changed my life. On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:52 AM, Kramer, Robert wrote: > I was not a fan of NASCAR until I went to a race with corporate > group. With a sponsored car driver to root for the dynamics change, > and I think that the fan base that drools over Junior or Tony or > whoever has found that same dynamic. I walked down trackside by the > front straight with some customer and the rush of air, the smell of > rubber and fuel is intoxicating. Take in a NASCAR race live and you > may start to like it....and whether you like it or not, aren't we > all enjoying the rebirth of road racing with Grand Am which is tied > closely to NASCAR? Combined with the ALMS we have great racing to > watch. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 12:14:35 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Kramer, Robert'" , "'Bill Babcock'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:14:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR That is the crux of what it takes to make any sport palatable. The viewer has to have some vested interest in the outcome. If you can find someone to root for, it makes watching the event a personal experience. That is why NASCAR (as well as their sponsors) devote a lot of advertising on individual drivers and teams in order to get the audience emotionally involved. The only reason I watch IRL races is to see how Danica will do. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:52 AM To: Bill Babcock; Group44TR7@aol.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I was not a fan of NASCAR until I went to a race with corporate group. With a sponsored car driver to root for the dynamics change, and I think that the fan base that drools over Junior or Tony or whoever has found that same dynamic. I walked down trackside by the front straight with some customer and the rush of air, the smell of rubber and fuel is intoxicating. Take in a NASCAR race live and you may start to like it....and whether you like it or not, aren't we all enjoying the rebirth of road racing with Grand Am which is tied closely to NASCAR? Combined with the ALMS we have great racing to watch. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 14:29:10 2008 From: DANNY D FORGEY To: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:29:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR How Danica would do is a given, invariable and absolute.> From: spitlist@cox.net> To: RKramer@rdoequipment.com; Billb@bnj.com; Group44TR7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:14:16 -0700> CC: fot@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR> > That is the crux of what it takes to make any sport palatable. The viewer> has to have some vested interest in the outcome. If you can find someone to> root for, it makes watching the event a personal experience. That is why> NASCAR (as well as their sponsors) devote a lot of advertising on individual> drivers and teams in order to get the audience emotionally involved.> > The only reason I watch IRL races is to see how Danica will do.> > Joe C.> > -----Original Message-----> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On> Behalf Of Kramer, Robert> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:52 AM> To: Bill Babcock; Group44TR7@aol.com> Cc: fot@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR> > I was not a fan of NASCAR until I went to a race with corporate group. With> a> sponsored car driver to root for the dynamics change, and I think that the> fan> base that drools over Junior or Tony or whoever has found that same dynamic.> I> walked down trackside by the front straight with some customer and the rush> of> air, the smell of rubber and fuel is intoxicating. Take in a NASCAR race> live> and you may start to like it....and whether you like it or not, aren't we> all> enjoying the rebirth of road racing with Grand Am which is tied closely to> NASCAR? Combined with the ALMS we have great racing to watch.> _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 16:22:28 2008 From: To: timmurph@fastbytes.com, fot@autox.team.net, BillDentin@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:22:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... Yeah! What Bill said. I have to work Saturday, but should be down to watch on Sunday. Sounds like a good day for a ride on the bike. Jeff Senty ---- BillDentin@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/24/2008 12:44:11 PM Central Daylight Time, > timmurph@fastbytes.com writes: > > > > Ryan and I were planning on going but took a long look at the weather and > > decided against it. Didn't think it would be much fun freezing our butts > > off in the paddock to say nothing of racing an open car in 50 degree damp > > weather. And we're from Wisconsin where we're supposed to be used to this > > kind of thing! > > > > As Peter Egan has said: > > > > "Even the most diehard Wisconsinites tend to be somewhat ambivalent about > > their own winter weather, after all. What can you say about a state where > > the primary defense of deer hunting is "If we don't shoot 'em, they'll > > freeze." > > > > Tony Drews was thinking of going also but I think he decided against it > > also. > > > > Pussies! > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > ************** > Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of > your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 16:40:58 2008 From: To: Group44TR7@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:40:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] State of Vintage Racing & the Economic Tsunami & Question Pretty much killed it. Jeff So a question to the group, how is the economic tsunami going to impact your racing plans for 2009? Cary > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf > ooter) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 16:54:36 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'DANNY D FORGEY'" , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:54:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I would not say that at all. Sometimes she does pretty well, sometimes she does very poorly and other times she throws a temper tantrum! :) It is interesting to watch at any rate! Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:29 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR How Danica would do is a given, invariable and absolute _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 17:06:28 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Joe Curry Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:06:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I think if she was a guy she'd be considered a talented but inconsistent racer, and she'd (he'd) probably have gotten a few punches in the nose. In other words she'd be a skinny Paul Tracy. On Oct 24, 2008, at 3:54 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > I would not say that at all. Sometimes she does pretty well, > sometimes she > does very poorly and other times she throws a temper tantrum! :) > > It is interesting to watch at any rate! > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:29 PM > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR > > How Danica would do is a given, invariable and absolute > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 17:10:04 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:09:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I like that analogy! :-) Joe C. _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb@bnj.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:06 PM To: Joe Curry Cc: 'DANNY D FORGEY'; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I think if she was a guy she'd be considered a talented but inconsistent racer, and she'd (he'd) probably have gotten a few punches in the nose. In other words she'd be a skinny Paul Tracy. On Oct 24, 2008, at 3:54 PM, Joe Curry wrote: I would not say that at all. Sometimes she does pretty well, sometimes she does very poorly and other times she throws a temper tantrum! :) It is interesting to watch at any rate! Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:29 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR How Danica would do is a given, invariable and absolute Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 17:13:15 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Bill Babcock" , "Joe Curry" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:13:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR her personality will keep her out of Nascar....she has to TRY to be pleasant to the fans....there are quite a few talented drivers...Nascar makes an effort to only hire 'Fan Friendly' people...ALMS is doing a good job at being fan friendly..with the autograph sessions in the pits, etc...the teams were very pleasant to meet...in fact so pleasant that if a few people were arrogant..they stood out immedietly as a.. h....(i hope i spelled that correctly) Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Joe Curry" Cc: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR >I think if she was a guy she'd be considered a talented but > inconsistent racer, and she'd (he'd) probably have gotten a few > punches in the nose. In other words she'd be a skinny Paul Tracy. > > On Oct 24, 2008, at 3:54 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> I would not say that at all. Sometimes she does pretty well, >> sometimes she >> does very poorly and other times she throws a temper tantrum! :) >> >> It is interesting to watch at any rate! >> >> Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] >> On >> Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:29 PM >> To: fot@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR >> >> How Danica would do is a given, invariable and absolute >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 17:15:21 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Joe Curry" , "'Bill Babcock'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:15:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR Question...is there any aspiring racer out there who would pass up the opportunity to drive for a Nascar Team? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" Cc: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR >I like that analogy! :-) > > > > Joe C. > > > > _____ > > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb@bnj.com] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:06 PM > To: Joe Curry > Cc: 'DANNY D FORGEY'; fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR > > > > I think if she was a guy she'd be considered a talented but inconsistent > racer, and she'd (he'd) probably have gotten a few punches in the nose. In > other words she'd be a skinny Paul Tracy. > > > > On Oct 24, 2008, at 3:54 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > > > > > > I would not say that at all. Sometimes she does pretty well, sometimes > she > does very poorly and other times she throws a temper tantrum! :) > > It is interesting to watch at any rate! > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:29 PM > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR > > How Danica would do is a given, invariable and absolute > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb@bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > > > Bill@kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 18:46:40 2008 From: To: Joe Curry , Bill Babcock , RACER Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:46:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR She was a sweet young lady when she raced go karts at Sugar River Raceway where my grandson and I play. I think he has a thing for her. Nice picture of her and the track owner on there web site. Jeff ---- RACER BUD wrote: > her personality will keep her out of Nascar....she has to TRY to be pleasant > to the fans....there are quite a few talented drivers...Nascar makes an > effort to only hire 'Fan Friendly' people...ALMS is doing a good job at > being fan friendly..with the autograph sessions in the pits, etc...the teams > were very pleasant to meet...in fact so pleasant that if a few people were > arrogant..they stood out immedietly as a.. h....(i hope i spelled that > correctly) > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "Joe Curry" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR > > > >I think if she was a guy she'd be considered a talented but > > inconsistent racer, and she'd (he'd) probably have gotten a few > > punches in the nose. In other words she'd be a skinny Paul Tracy. > > > > On Oct 24, 2008, at 3:54 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > > > >> I would not say that at all. Sometimes she does pretty well, > >> sometimes she > >> does very poorly and other times she throws a temper tantrum! :) > >> > >> It is interesting to watch at any rate! > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > >> On > >> Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY > >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:29 PM > >> To: fot@autox.team.net > >> Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR > >> > >> How Danica would do is a given, invariable and absolute > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> http://www.fot-racing.com > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot@autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >> > > > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb@bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > > > Bill@kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 18:55:18 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:15:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] F-1 (Crankcase Oil Use Unveiled) I did the oil dripping part on our M 20 Mclaren Can Am car in 1973. I worked great. Worked on the Formula 5000 wing also. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 5:07 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] F-1 (Crankcase Oil Use Unveiled) > In a message dated 10/23/2008 10:26:38 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > N197TR4@cs.com writes: > > Joe > > I think you overlooked a very important point in the previous > email > below about the use of crankcase oils. > > Clearly, the Triumph engineers intended our cars to leak crankcase > oil so that we could study the under carriages aerodynamics. I wonder > what > other revelations we will be able to find out in the future? > > Cary > > > Just a comment...... > > In the late 50s, Jim Bede, used tiny perforations in the flying surfaces > in > order to control laminar flow. Not very cost effective at the time, but > with > modern manufacturing methods, it might be more feasible. Maybe it wasnt > even > functionally effective, but an interesting idea. > > F-1 and others have may have pursued this, but I wonder about that, too. > > Jim Bede was the originator the BD-5 & BD 5J microjet used in the Bond > Movies and one was also owned and flown by Richard Bach....(Jonathon > Livingston > Seagull). > >> FYI - Response from a retired Aeronautical Engineer friend of mine >> that > I >> shared your interesting, the state of F1, conversation. Thought you >> might >> appreciate his words on the subject. >> Bob Johns >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Gregory Foster >> To: Robert Johns >> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:18 AM >> Subject: Re: Fw: Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 44 >> >> >> Aero and hydro dynamics are always interesting subjects which I >> could >> talk at length on because I spent the last 15 years of my career dealing > with >> them when we were building high speed underwater vehicles. Also since >> my >> hobby is flying sailplanes, it is a constant topic of conversation along > with >> "secret" airfoils and "secret" wing finishes to either eliminate or at > least >> carefully control transitions from laminar to turbulent flow. Most of it > is >> BS >> but some is not. A recent development suggests there may be a new one > coming >> along. see http://www.standardcirrus.org/ A technique used in gliders >> is > to >> smear used crankcase oil that is good and black along a 2 foot section >> of > a >> wing and then go fly the plane and see how the oil streaked off the >> wing. >> The >> location ( cordwise) of any transition to turbulent airflow is very > visible >> in the remaining oil smears. Then we know where to place strips of >> "deturbulator" tapes. >> >> I have been through several classes on turbulence including the >> Mendelbrot techniques discussed in the Fot. He is a math genius and his >> theories of "Chaos", when applied to turbulence result in very strange >> phenomenal (in theory). As a personal hobby project I tried very hard >> to >> apply some of his theory to stock market analysis (if that isn't chaos, > what >> is?) and it will take someone smarter than I am to produce something > useful. >> I could show that his theory applies to the market but I wanted a form >> of >> predictor and failed to get such a result. It is called "looking for a >> "strange" attractor". The word strange has a definite, specific meaning >> in >> his theory. >> >> Greg > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf > ooter) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 19:58:10 2008 From: "Craig" To: "Joe Curry" , <6-Pack@autox.team.net>, "'FOT Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:03:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] Triumph on TV alert Joe.....its a Tr6 with a chrome stripe down the side That's new one on me Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Craig'" ; <6-Pack@autox.team.net>; "'FOT (E-mail)'" ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:22 AM Subject: RE: [TR] Triumph on TV alert >I wasn't sure myself because they never showed a full shot of it. When I > saw the shot of the front clip, the side light sorta looked like that of a > TR250 but there was no stripe. When the camera panned down the side (from > mid-front fender, it didn't look to me to be the TR4/250 body style. > > Hopefully someone got a better shot than I saw. They didn't dwell on any > shot long enough to get a 100 percent confident reading. > > Joe. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:13 AM > To: 6-Pack@autox.team.net; FOT (E-mail); Triumphs@autox.team.net; Joe > Curry > Subject: Re: [TR] Triumph on TV alert > > I thought it was a Tr250 some body will get a picture of it > Craig > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: [TR] Triumph on TV alert > > >> There is a TR6 on today's CSI. >> >> >> >> Joe >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >> http://www.vtr.org >> >> >> Triumphs@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >> You are subscribed as wensley_tr@comcast.net >> >> http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 20:03:22 2008 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: macdonaldp@rogers.com, spitlist@cox.net, tony@tonydrews.com, Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:03:11 EDT Subject: [Fot] Drag Racing Paul Back when I was single and dating that year's Miss Winston, I had the opportunity to be on the track directly behind the NHRA dragsters when they when green. Truly amazing to watch them disappear done the BIR drag strip. Cary In a message dated 10/24/2008 10:56:56 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, macdonaldp@rogers.com writes: If you ever get a chance to visit the pits at an NHRA top fuel meet...incredible. Standing close to an 8000 horsepower...that's right eight thousand., when they hit the loud pedal the shock wave is so forceful that you instinctively open your mouth so your eardrums don't explode. The machinery is just spectacular. Paul **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 20:04:57 2008 From: "Scott Janzen" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:07:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] How do I find the archives? I know the question of removing the rear hubs on TR4s has been addressed before - where do I find it? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 20:23:12 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: 'Friends of Triumph' Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:23:18 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] How do I find the archives? http://www.team.net/archive mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 20:50:40 2008 From: DSPGTi@aol.com To: budscars@comcast.net, spitlist@cox.net, tony@tonydrews.com, Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:50:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT There are a few of you FOT's out there that may be familiar with my irrational outbursts about vintage racing in the past. I have been a member for only a few years and since I made such a bad impression in the beginning, I was hesitant to voice my opinion. But now it is time to step up and be heard. Our membership has swelled significantly due to successful events and joining with other Internet groups. My impression is that we are a much more diversified group then we use to be. So what is our goal? Are we on track with the intent of starting the FOT to begin with? I have been personally insulted 6 times in the past week. I have been told that the type of racing I like is ignorant, stupid, boring, etc. F1 and the antics of the rich and famous are more important than the events that we attend. Some say, this date is the cut off of real vintage, others yada, yada, yada. I thought this group was about Triumphs and how to make them go faster. I listened to the members chat about getting together at this event or that. I dreamed about joining up with our group at Watkins Glen only to be disappointed by attending to things that were more important to me. I like the sharing of technical information. A recount or two of an event are welcomed by those that couldn't attend. I will make one proposal and then I'll be quiet. IF IT IS NOT A DIRECT ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT. Either that or lock me out altogether because I for one have become increasingly irritated by the direction of this group. David Yeager **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 21:06:40 2008 From: "riverside" To: , , , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:06:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT When you bench race with friends, do you talk only about FOT? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:50 PM Subject: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > There are a few of you FOT's out there that may be familiar with my > irrational outbursts about vintage racing in the past. I have been a > member > for only a > few years and since I made such a bad impression in the beginning, I was > hesitant to voice my opinion. But now it is time to step up and be heard. > > Our membership has swelled significantly due to successful events and > joining > with other Internet groups. My impression is that we are a much more > diversified group then we use to be. So what is our goal? Are we on track > with > the > intent of starting the FOT to begin with? > > I have been personally insulted 6 times in the past week. I have been told > that the type of racing I like is ignorant, stupid, boring, etc. F1 and > the > antics of the rich and famous are more important than the events that we > attend. > Some say, this date is the cut off of real vintage, others yada, yada, > yada. > > I thought this group was about Triumphs and how to make them go faster. I > listened to the members chat about getting together at this event or that. > I > dreamed about joining up with our group at Watkins Glen only to be > disappointed by > attending to things that were more important to me. I like the sharing of > technical information. A recount or two of an event are welcomed by those > that > couldn't attend. > > I will make one proposal and then I'll be quiet. IF IT IS NOT A DIRECT > ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT. > > Either that or lock me out altogether because I for one have become > increasingly irritated by the direction of this group. > > David Yeager > > **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > favorites, > no registration required and great graphics b check it out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 > 7:46 AM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 21:06:50 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: , , , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:06:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT David, While I can't say that your opinion is incorrect, I can say that you are definitely NOT the specific target of anyone's insults about any particular form of racing. My opinion ( and just my opinion) is that yes this is a group of Triumph Racing enthusiasts. But if we were restricted to talking only about Triumph Racing there would be long periods of empty bandwidth. People talking about their own preferences in racing is natural among people who enjoy multiple forms of motorsport, so why not have such discussions. I for one would not want anything I have said on this list to be construed as a personal insult to anyone. Yes, we are a varied group in both geography and interests. As long as we keep the discussion confined to Triumphs in particular and Racing in general, (and not on politics and religion) I am happy with the current line of topics. Lastly, nobody on this or any other internet list is being forced to read all the posts. As long as we keep the subject lines accurate, anybody can freely use the delete key rather than read the messages that come in. You don't have to be thick skinned but sometimes it helps. Cheers, Joe C. _____ From: DSPGTi@aol.com [mailto:DSPGTi@aol.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:50 PM To: budscars@comcast.net; spitlist@cox.net; tony@tonydrews.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT There are a few of you FOT's out there that may be familiar with my irrational outbursts about vintage racing in the past. I have been a member for only a few years and since I made such a bad impression in the beginning, I was hesitant to voice my opinion. But now it is time to step up and be heard. Our membership has swelled significantly due to successful events and joining with other Internet groups. My impression is that we are a much more diversified group then we use to be. So what is our goal? Are we on track with the intent of starting the FOT to begin with? I have been personally insulted 6 times in the past week. I have been told that the type of racing I like is ignorant, stupid, boring, etc. F1 and the antics of the rich and famous are more important than the events that we attend. Some say, this date is the cut off of real vintage, others yada, yada, yada. I thought this group was about Triumphs and how to make them go faster. I listened to the members chat about getting together at this event or that. I dreamed about joining up with our group at Watkins Glen only to be disappointed by attending to things that were more important to me. I like the sharing of technical information. A recount or two of an event are welcomed by those that couldn't attend. I will make one proposal and then I'll be quiet. IF IT IS NOT A DIRECT ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT. Either that or lock me out altogether because I for one have become increasingly irritated by the direction of this group. David Yeager _____ Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics - check it out! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 21:08:44 2008 From: "riverside" To: , , , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:09:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT When you bench race with friends, do you talk only about FOT? Ron Sanborn ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:50 PM Subject: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > There are a few of you FOT's out there that may be familiar with my > irrational outbursts about vintage racing in the past. I have been a > member > for only a > few years and since I made such a bad impression in the beginning, I was > hesitant to voice my opinion. But now it is time to step up and be heard. > > Our membership has swelled significantly due to successful events and > joining > with other Internet groups. My impression is that we are a much more > diversified group then we use to be. So what is our goal? Are we on track > with > the > intent of starting the FOT to begin with? > > I have been personally insulted 6 times in the past week. I have been told > that the type of racing I like is ignorant, stupid, boring, etc. F1 and > the > antics of the rich and famous are more important than the events that we > attend. > Some say, this date is the cut off of real vintage, others yada, yada, > yada. > > I thought this group was about Triumphs and how to make them go faster. I > listened to the members chat about getting together at this event or that. > I > dreamed about joining up with our group at Watkins Glen only to be > disappointed by > attending to things that were more important to me. I like the sharing of > technical information. A recount or two of an event are welcomed by those > that > couldn't attend. > > I will make one proposal and then I'll be quiet. IF IT IS NOT A DIRECT > ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT. > > Either that or lock me out altogether because I for one have become > increasingly irritated by the direction of this group. > > David Yeager > > **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > favorites, > no registration required and great graphics b check it out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 > 7:46 AM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 21:23:23 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: Friends of Triumph Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:23:29 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Replying from digest, etc. Susan Kahler wrote: > > When you reply to the list from a digest or someone who has replied > from a digest, would you please strip the 330 unnecessary messages > from your reply before you send? It's using a lot of bandwidth. Same > goes for the long message-reply threads. Ha! I've been trying for decades to get people to use common sense, basic respect for others, elementary school level composition skills and EDIT THEIR REPLIES. Trust me, it ain't gonna happen. What has happened, though, is the message size limit is back in place for this list that used to be discussions about racing Triumphs. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 21:30:24 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , , , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:30:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT Hello Friends...I like 'ALL OF US' Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: DSPGTi@aol.com To: budscars@comcast.net ; spitlist@cox.net ; tony@tonydrews.com ; fot@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:50 PM Subject: forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT There are a few of you FOT's out there that may be familiar with my irrational outbursts about vintage racing in the past. I have been a member for only a few years and since I made such a bad impression in the beginning, I was hesitant to voice my opinion. But now it is time to step up and be heard. Our membership has swelled significantly due to successful events and joining with other Internet groups. My impression is that we are a much more diversified group then we use to be. So what is our goal? Are we on track with the intent of starting the FOT to begin with? I have been personally insulted 6 times in the past week. I have been told that the type of racing I like is ignorant, stupid, boring, etc. F1 and the antics of the rich and famous are more important than the events that we attend. Some say, this date is the cut off of real vintage, others yada, yada, yada. I thought this group was about Triumphs and how to make them go faster. I listened to the members chat about getting together at this event or that. I dreamed about joining up with our group at Watkins Glen only to be disappointed by attending to things that were more important to me. I like the sharing of technical information. A recount or two of an event are welcomed by those that couldn't attend. I will make one proposal and then I'll be quiet. IF IT IS NOT A DIRECT ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT. Either that or lock me out altogether because I for one have become increasingly irritated by the direction of this group. David Yeager ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 00:48:18 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: 'Friends of Triumph' Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:48:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] List notes Oddly enough, I've been working on setting up some new forum software on Team.Net. The forum section on the http://www.team.net/the-local page seemed a bit unwieldy and never really caught on. So I'm trying out some new stuff, the Prattle forum is just the thing for random discussions that don't really fit the character of the various email lists. There's a few forums there now, I doubt that the roughly 75 email lists under mailman and majordomo all need an entry. Anyway, I'm just testing it out, take a look at http://www.team.net/forums if so inclined. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 04:02:04 2008 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:01:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual Amici For many years, Uncle Jack was the custodian so to speak of the Coors TR3. It was moved to a mini-storage near Jacks many years ago with good intentions on my part, but nothing really happened until this past winter when I finally said lets get this done. Over the years that the car sat in mini-storage, Jack and I had many occassions to talk about TR3s. One of things that I so appreciated about Jack was his knowledge of Triumphs. With his untimely passing away, also went away from us a lot of experience and knowledge. I use to half-jokingly, half-serious ask Jack when I could get an advance copy of his forthcoming Triumph Competition Manual. There is extensive coverage in Kas's competition manual, but I realized in talking with Uncle Jack that there was a lot of experience and knowledge that Jack so unselfishly shared with anyone who asked that was not covered in the competition manual. It clear from the dialog on this "blog" that many of you also possess important experience and knowledge that would be helpful to current and future Triumph owners/racers. So I put forward for consideration the concept of FOT expanding upon Kas's original competition manual with an online manuals that FOT works together to build. If we are only the temporary custodians of our cars, then we need to pass along to others the knowledge with how to repair and maintain them. Cary **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 06:24:56 2008 From: "Henry Frye" To: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:24:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? David's post is right on target. And I thought I was the resident FOT list curmudgeon... We started as a close knit group of racers, and this email list was the sounding board for our problems, ideas and people proposing solutions. However, because of the no rules doctrine so many hold close to their hearts, the group has grown to include many people. All Triumph enthusiasts to be sure, but not quite what the FOT founding fathers had in mind. It kills me to see posts from racers like one of Ed Ceilley's sons saying "Thanks, but no thanks" after experiencing a week of off-topic ramblings. I really hope Dan and Dave can continue in their father's footsteps and race his cars. I hope Dave will give us another chance to prove our worth. The talent pool within this group runs very deep. I know I owe the lions share of my success to dipping into it. I would be very disappointed to see our core talent pool stray from this loss of focus. Can we please try a little harder to stay on topic? Thanks gang, I know we can do it. Henry Frye > -----Original Message----- > From: David Yeager > Subject: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > > IF IT IS NOT > A DIRECT ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO > TALK ABOUT IT. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 06:31:08 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: henry@henryfrye.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:30:57 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? Amen, Henry! I am close to bailing as well....I will hold on for now. This is FOT not BROL (bench racin' on line). Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra@aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 10/25/2008 8:25:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, henry@henryfrye.com writes: <<>> <<>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 06:58:05 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Idle too high Interesting issue. Can't get the SU 1 3/4" carbs to idle nicely on cold start. Won't go below 2K, and they seem to surge up and down in RPM. I am wondering if its time for a new fuel pump and regulator. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 07:42:38 2008 From: "riverside" To: "RACER BUD" , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:42:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT I enjoy reading the ideas and opinions of this group's members on damn near anything they find interesting. The subject line is a really useful tool and can hint at those items any of us may not find worth avoiding the delete button. art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "RACER BUD" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > Hello Friends...I like 'ALL OF US' > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DSPGTi@aol.com > To: budscars@comcast.net ; spitlist@cox.net ; tony@tonydrews.com ; > fot@autox.team.net > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:50 PM > Subject: forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > > > There are a few of you FOT's out there that may be familiar with my > irrational outbursts about vintage racing in the past. I have been a > member > for only a few years and since I made such a bad impression in the > beginning, > I was hesitant to voice my opinion. But now it is time to step up and be > heard. > > Our membership has swelled significantly due to successful events and > joining with other Internet groups. My impression is that we are a much > more > diversified group then we use to be. So what is our goal? Are we on track > with > the intent of starting the FOT to begin with? > > I have been personally insulted 6 times in the past week. I have been > told > that the type of racing I like is ignorant, stupid, boring, etc. F1 and > the > antics of the rich and famous are more important than the events that we > attend. Some say, this date is the cut off of real vintage, others yada, > yada, > yada. > > I thought this group was about Triumphs and how to make them go faster. I > listened to the members chat about getting together at this event or that. > I > dreamed about joining up with our group at Watkins Glen only to be > disappointed by attending to things that were more important to me. I like > the > sharing of technical information. A recount or two of an event are > welcomed by > those that couldn't attend. > > I will make one proposal and then I'll be quiet. IF IT IS NOT A DIRECT > ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT. > > Either that or lock me out altogether because I for one have become > increasingly irritated by the direction of this group. > > David Yeager > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no > registration required and great graphics b check it out! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 > 7:46 AM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 07:46:07 2008 From: LOddTR@aol.com To: henry@henryfrye.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:45:53 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? I agree with Henry. Having to wade through countless off-topic emails every day has become tiresome. Leo Oddi In a message dated 10/25/2008 8:25:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, henry@henryfrye.com writes: David's post is right on target. And I thought I was the resident FOT list curmudgeon... We started as a close knit group of racers, and this email list was the sounding board for our problems, ideas and people proposing solutions. However, because of the no rules doctrine so many hold close to their hearts, the group has grown to include many people. All Triumph enthusiasts to be sure, but not quite what the FOT founding fathers had in mind. It kills me to see posts from racers like one of Ed Ceilley's sons saying "Thanks, but no thanks" after experiencing a week of off-topic ramblings. I really hope Dan and Dave can continue in their father's footsteps and race his cars. I hope Dave will give us another chance to prove our worth. The talent pool within this group runs very deep. I know I owe the lions share of my success to dipping into it. I would be very disappointed to see our core talent pool stray from this loss of focus. Can we please try a little harder to stay on topic? Thanks gang, I know we can do it. Henry Frye > -----Original Message----- > From: David Yeager > Subject: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > > IF IT IS NOT > A DIRECT ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO > TALK ABOUT IT. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 07:53:10 2008 From: "Randall" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:53:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Idle too high > Can't get the SU 1 3/4" carbs to idle nicely on cold start. Chokes synchronized? Pistons move smoothly, land with a distinct click? Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 07:55:14 2008 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: henry@henryfrye.com, fot@autox.team.net, LOddTR@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? Kudos to Henry, or anyone that speaks their mind on this issue. I used the delete key a lot yesterday. I too am guilty of not clearing the CC line when in discussions with others and posting to the group. Shame on me! But, lets not get like one of the other lists I'm on. On that list if you get off topic in the slightest bit your hand is slapped; and GOD forbid you post without your name and location at the tailend. Ed - Arlington, TX --- On Sat, 10/25/08, LOddTR@aol.com wrote: From: LOddTR@aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? To: henry@henryfrye.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 8:45 AM I agree with Henry. Having to wade through countless off-topic emails every day has become tiresome. Leo Oddi In a message dated 10/25/2008 8:25:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, henry@henryfrye.com writes: David's post is right on target. And I thought I was the resident FOT list curmudgeon... We started as a close knit group of racers, and this email list was the sounding board for our problems, ideas and people proposing solutions. However, because of the no rules doctrine so many hold close to their hearts, the group has grown to include many people. All Triumph enthusiasts to be sure, but not quite what the FOT founding fathers had in mind. It kills me to see posts from racers like one of Ed Ceilley's sons saying "Thanks, but no thanks" after experiencing a week of off-topic ramblings. I really hope Dan and Dave can continue in their father's footsteps and race his cars. I hope Dave will give us another chance to prove our worth. The talent pool within this group runs very deep. I know I owe the lions share of my success to dipping into it. I would be very disappointed to see our core talent pool stray from this loss of focus. Can we please try a little harder to stay on topic? Thanks gang, I know we can do it. Henry Frye > -----Original Message----- > From: David Yeager > Subject: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > > IF IT IS NOT > A DIRECT ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO > TALK ABOUT IT. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 08:07:12 2008 From: Herald948@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:07:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] Redux: Spitfire 1147 (six-port) cylinder head primer, anyone? Apologies for an on-topic post. :-) Back on September 10, I posted the following...and got virtually no response, save for a few people who offered bits of information...or sympathy for the lack of response from others. So I thought I'd give it one more try.... ============ Can any of you of the early Spitfire persuasion give me a primer on the "good" and/or "better" cylinder heads? I'm really interested to know about casting numbers AND stamped numbers, what the differences are, why the 303014 (casting number, I think) head was once banned in SCCA Production racing but is now allowed again and what's so special about that particular head...in short, any such details you'd care to share. I know someone once told me that one or more of the 948cc heads was good as well; unfortunately, I lost the details on that in a long-ago computer crash. Thanks for any and all insights! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 08:52:00 2008 From: Brett Johnson <356drb@indy.net> To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:51:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] NASCAR I don't comment to the list very often, but I had a brush with Danica a couple years ago that backs this up. When I was in high school (1973 or thereabouts) I met a guy who was a few years older than me through an ad in a local classified ad paper where I was selling a (now) classic German sports car in deplorable condition -- which had been given to me!!! He bought it and oddly enough we have stayed in touch. Fast forward to 2006 and he does marketing for HMSA and they actually allowed me bring my Lotus to the Monterey races, possibly with some influence -- but in this instance probably not -- a 50th anniversary marque thing... Between the two weekends of racing, there is an event at the Monterey Jetport where all the really "significant" folks attend and with my new insider connection I got to go -- figured I wouldn't see anybody I knew and was almost right, but that is another story. We did see Bobby Rahal walking around, but this was after his difficulties with the diva and he didn't recognize us anyway. My friend and I walked around and ate the free food and drank the free wine. We even got in the for sale (new) personal jets and acted like we were savvy. Danica was parked in the "meet and greet" areas for one of the dealers/manufacturers. We didn't get in line, but back in the regular folks area, there was a '53 Corvette and we walked around to look at it. About that time Danica and a high roller with a photographer came over to be comemoratized. After the photo Ms. P. could not figure out how to get out of the car and my buddy Llew went over and opened the door for her. She got out of the car and not only did she not thank him, she didn't even look at him. Ice? Stupidity? Combination? Other? Brett Johnson Indianapolis I used to write a column in Triumph World and have a TR3A and a GT6+ -- This post is kinda like a column... On Oct 24, 2008, at 7:13 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > her personality will keep her out of Nascar....she has to TRY to be > pleasant to the fans....there are quite a few talented _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 08:55:21 2008 From: "Tim Murphy" To: , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:53:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual Earlier this year when I was replacing the sleeves and pistons in the TR4 vintage racers engine Jack sent me his "Jack Drews Tips for Engine Assembly". It was very useful, to say the least, and was my guide for the "rebuild". I don't know how widely Jack distributed this. I did some additions and editing to clarify for my own use. I also had one addition on installing the distributor to the oil pump drive that Jack had mentioned. If there is interest in Cary's proposal, this document may make a good starting point. I was also talking to Kas at Watkins Glen about installing the stock rear seal on the TR motor and Kas mentioned that he hadn't put that in his books and maybe should have. I'm sure there are other things that could be added to a "FOT Competition Manual". As I'm still learning about the TR4 motor, I for one would like to see this happen. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:01 AM Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual > Amici > > For many years, Uncle Jack was the custodian so to speak of the > Coors TR3. It was moved to a mini-storage near Jacks many years ago with > good > intentions on my part, but nothing really happened until this past winter > when I > finally said lets get this done. Over the years that the car sat in > mini-storage, Jack and I had many occassions to talk about TR3s. > > One of things that I so appreciated about Jack was his knowledge > of > Triumphs. With his untimely passing away, also went away from us a lot of > experience and knowledge. I use to half-jokingly, half-serious ask Jack > when I > could get an advance copy of his forthcoming Triumph Competition Manual. > > There is extensive coverage in Kas's competition manual, but I > realized in talking with Uncle Jack that there was a lot of experience > and > knowledge that Jack so unselfishly shared with anyone who asked that was > not covered > in the competition manual. It clear from the dialog on this "blog" that > many > of you also possess important experience and knowledge that would be > helpful > to current and future Triumph owners/racers. > > So I put forward for consideration the concept of FOT expanding > upon > Kas's original competition manual with an online manuals that FOT works > together to build. If we are only the temporary custodians of our cars, > then we > need to pass along to others the knowledge with how to repair and > maintain > them. > > Cary > > > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf > ooter) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 09:38:31 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "riverside" , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:38:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT I also feel that a varied discussion brings the group together more often Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "riverside" To: "RACER BUD" ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT >I enjoy reading the ideas and opinions of this > group's members on damn near anything > they find interesting. The subject line is > a really useful tool and can hint at those items > any of us may not find worth avoiding the > delete button. > > art d > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RACER BUD" > To: ; ; ; > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT > > >> Hello Friends...I like 'ALL OF US' >> Racer Bud >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: DSPGTi@aol.com >> To: budscars@comcast.net ; spitlist@cox.net ; tony@tonydrews.com ; >> fot@autox.team.net >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:50 PM >> Subject: forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT >> >> >> There are a few of you FOT's out there that may be familiar with my >> irrational outbursts about vintage racing in the past. I have been a >> member >> for only a few years and since I made such a bad impression in the >> beginning, >> I was hesitant to voice my opinion. But now it is time to step up and be >> heard. >> >> Our membership has swelled significantly due to successful events and >> joining with other Internet groups. My impression is that we are a much >> more >> diversified group then we use to be. So what is our goal? Are we on track >> with >> the intent of starting the FOT to begin with? >> >> I have been personally insulted 6 times in the past week. I have been >> told >> that the type of racing I like is ignorant, stupid, boring, etc. F1 and >> the >> antics of the rich and famous are more important than the events that we >> attend. Some say, this date is the cut off of real vintage, others yada, >> yada, >> yada. >> >> I thought this group was about Triumphs and how to make them go faster. >> I >> listened to the members chat about getting together at this event or >> that. I >> dreamed about joining up with our group at Watkins Glen only to be >> disappointed by attending to things that were more important to me. I >> like the >> sharing of technical information. A recount or two of an event are >> welcomed by >> those that couldn't attend. >> >> I will make one proposal and then I'll be quiet. IF IT IS NOT A DIRECT >> ACTIVITY INVOLVING TRIUMPHS, FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE TO TALK ABOUT IT. >> >> Either that or lock me out altogether because I for one have become >> increasingly irritated by the direction of this group. >> >> David Yeager >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no >> registration required and great graphics b check it out! >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 >> 7:46 AM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 09:44:07 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: timmurph@fastbytes.com ("Tim Murphy"), Group44TR7@aol.com, Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:43:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual - A possible legacy. FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH, Uncle Jack was compiling all of the information that he could on his experience with the wet sleeve engine. Jack reasoned that if he was unable to continue race, that he would refocus his energies so that he could contribute to the group that he loved so much. Our discussion centered on whether this could be assembled into a manuscript worthy of publishing. (OF COURSE IT COULD) I suspect that there is much information nicely organized on his computer. I suppose there is enough talent on this list to make A TRIUMPH COMPETITION MANUAL happen, and still have time left over for some good humor bantering on the LIST. Joe A >Earlier this year when I was replacing the sleeves and pistons in the TR4 >vintage racers engine Jack sent me his "Jack Drews Tips for Engine >Assembly". It was very useful, to say the least, and was my guide for the >"rebuild". I don't know how widely Jack distributed this. I did some >additions and editing to clarify for my own use. I also had one addition on >installing the distributor to the oil pump drive that Jack had mentioned. > If there is interest in Cary's proposal, this document may make a good >starting point. I was also talking to Kas at Watkins Glen about installing >the stock rear seal on the TR motor and Kas mentioned that he hadn't put >that in his books and maybe should have. I'm sure there are other things >that could be added to a "FOT Competition Manual". As I'm still learning >about the TR4 motor, I for one would like to see this happen. > >Tim >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:01 AM >Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual > > >> Amici >> >> For many years, Uncle Jack was the custodian so to speak of the >> Coors TR3. It was moved to a mini-storage near Jacks many years ago with >> good >> intentions on my part, but nothing really happened until this past winter >> when I >> finally said lets get this done. Over the years that the car sat in >> mini-storage, Jack and I had many occassions to talk about TR3s. >> >> One of things that I so appreciated about Jack was his knowledge >> of >> Triumphs. With his untimely passing away, also went away from us a lot of >> experience and knowledge. I use to half-jokingly, half-serious ask Jack >> when I >> could get an advance copy of his forthcoming Triumph Competition Manual. >> >> There is extensive coverage in Kas's competition manual, but I >> realized in talking with Uncle Jack that there was a lot of experience >> and >> knowledge that Jack so unselfishly shared with anyone who asked that was >> not covered >> in the competition manual. It clear from the dialog on this "blog" that >> many >> of you also possess important experience and knowledge that would be >> helpful >> to current and future Triumph owners/racers. >> >> So I put forward for consideration the concept of FOT expanding >> upon >> Kas's original competition manual with an online manuals that FOT works >> together to build. If we are only the temporary custodians of our cars, >> then we >> need to pass along to others the knowledge with how to repair and >> maintain >> them. >> >> Cary >> >> >> >> >> >> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >> easy >> steps! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf >> ooter) >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 09:44:41 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'RACER BUD'" , "'riverside'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:44:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT Like I said earlier, if you take out all the Non Triumph racing related discussions over the past two weeks, you would scarcely be able to find anything on the FOT list at all. It sure would not be a very friendly place if we were all afraid of off-subject discussions. But I am just a member of this list. What is your opinion on this issue, Joe A? Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:38 AM To: riverside; DSPGTi@aol.com; spitlist@cox.net; tony@tonydrews.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT I also feel that a varied discussion brings the group together more often Racer Bud _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 10:12:34 2008 From: "Keith Files" To: "'Joe Curry'" , "'RACER BUD'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:11:53 +0100 Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT Speaking as a Brit who is not always up to speed with all things racing in the US, club level or otherwise, I really enjoy the banter so would miss it if it were stopped. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: 25 October 2008 16:44 To: 'RACER BUD'; 'riverside'; DSPGTi@aol.com; tony@tonydrews.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT Like I said earlier, if you take out all the Non Triumph racing related discussions over the past two weeks, you would scarcely be able to find anything on the FOT list at all. It sure would not be a very friendly place if we were all afraid of off-subject discussions. But I am just a member of this list. What is your opinion on this issue, Joe A? Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:38 AM To: riverside; DSPGTi@aol.com; spitlist@cox.net; tony@tonydrews.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] forget F1 IRL NASCAR ETC, what about FOT I also feel that a varied discussion brings the group together more often Racer Bud Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 10:23:31 2008 From: Chris Kantarjiev To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Idle too high Enough oil in the dashpots? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 10:37:41 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: spitlist@cox.net, budscars@comcast.net, riverside@cedar-rapids.net, Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:37:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] what about FOT? But I am just a member of this list. What is your opinion on this issue, Joe A? Joe C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Joe C. Thanks for asking for my opinion: .....nothing really needs to be changed. .....nothing is seriously broken. ...people have a right to be grumpy once in awhile. ......things will change as a result of it. ...people on this list are very smart. And People have choices ....if they choose to be unhappy, they surely will be unhappy. ....if they feel the list does not meet their needs, they can make a change. The digest version might work best for some. Private emails to express your feelings to a person may be a better approach than posting to the entire list. Changing the SUBJECT LINE would help determine the use of the DELETE button. But that is all common sense, and of course we all have plenty of that. Although I depart from COMMON SENSE from time to time....it is fortunate my 'Friends' are very forgiving. Joe A There is not a person on this list that cant make a contribution, nor a person we cant help. (Hold that thought on The Vintage Triumph Competition Manual. or .Vintage Racing Triumphs in the Modern Era) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 10:43:05 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:42:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? Well said! Thanks Joe A. Joe C. _____ From: N197TR4@cs.com [mailto:N197TR4@cs.com] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:37 AM To: spitlist@cox.net; budscars@comcast.net; riverside@cedar-rapids.net; DSPGTi@aol.com; tony@tonydrews.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: what about FOT? But I am just a member of this list. What is your opinion on this issue, Joe A? Joe C. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Joe C. Thanks for asking for my opinion: .....nothing really needs to be changed. .....nothing is seriously broken. ...people have a right to be grumpy once in awhile. ......things will change as a result of it. ...people on this list are very smart. And People have choices ....if they choose to be unhappy, they surely will be unhappy. ....if they feel the list does not meet their needs, they can make a change. The digest version might work best for some. Private emails to express your feelings to a person may be a better approach than posting to the entire list. Changing the SUBJECT LINE would help determine the use of the DELETE button. But that is all common sense, and of course we all have plenty of that. Although I depart from COMMON SENSE from time to time....it is fortunate my 'Friends' are very forgiving. Joe A There is not a person on this list that cant make a contribution, nor a person we cant help. (Hold that thought on The Vintage Triumph Competition Manual. or .Vintage Racing Triumphs in the Modern Era) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 10:47:38 2008 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:47:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] what about FOT? > Like I said earlier, if you take out all the Non Triumph racing related > discussions over the past two weeks, you would scarcely be able to find > anything on the FOT list at all. > > It sure would not be a very friendly place if we were all afraid of > off-subject discussions. > But I am just a member of this list. What is your opinion on this issue, > Joe A? As one who is guilty of numerable gaffs on the list I will endeavor to follow these rules: 1-I will clean up my replies to the list to save bandwidth. 2-I will include only relevant text from the previous messages using when I cut up paste it into my response. 3-I will put that relevant text on the top of my response so that others can quickly see if they are interested. 4-I will fix up my subject lines to match the current version of the thread. 5-When replying to the list I will remove individuals from my To: and Cc: boxes. 6-I will try to reply to the list only when I am adding something of value to others (not to make myself feel smart). 7-I will continue to use the delete button judiciously (I have renamed mine F1). 8-Rather than posting specific questions to the list I will choose a few selected folks (much harder without Jack). 9-If I have a technical topic that benefits some in the group I will post to the list. 10-I will try and remember to make sure I sign the bottom of my posts. ps. I will be guilty of forgetting these rules from time to time, forgive me. pps. Am I posting to try and make myself feel smart? If use the delete button NOW. Bob Kramer, Austin TX rkramer3@austin.rr.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 11:03:13 2008 From: Tony Drews To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:02:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? I'd rather see those "specific questions" go to the list. Even though it may not be a problem / issue I'm experiencing, I learn something by those exchanges and have it in my e-mail "archive" for future reference. - Tony Drews At 11:47 AM 10/25/2008, BOB KRAMER wrote: >8-Rather than posting specific questions to the list I will choose a >few selected folks (much harder without Jack). _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 12:16:41 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:16:34 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Idle too high Sounds like a vacuum leak at one end or other of the intake manifold. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 12:30:14 2008 From: Susan Kahler To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:29:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question I am with Henry, et al on this one. I sure don't mind some deviation from Triumph racing-related topics, but when it takes over the whole discussion for days I get pretty jaded. I know things get slower on the list and turn to things like tow-vehicle discussions in the winter season (which is related, as they are responsible for getting our racing Triumphs to the track) but I would appreciate it if we can move the really non-related discussions to a better forum and keep this one more geared toward its original topic. I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason not to? Thanks! Susan :) - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 12:35:43 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Susan Kahler'" , "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:35:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, But Susan, It has NOT taken over the discussion for several days. It has been the ONLY discussion for several days. I have to say that anyone who wants to start alternate Triumph only threads are perfectly able to do so but nobody has. We don't need List Nazi's trying to dictate list content. My 2 cents worth. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Susan Kahler Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:30 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question I am with Henry, et al on this one. I sure don't mind some deviation from Triumph racing-related topics, but when it takes over the whole discussion for days I get pretty jaded. I know things get slower on the list and turn to things like tow-vehicle discussions in the winter season (which is related, as they are responsible for getting our racing Triumphs to the track) but I would appreciate it if we can move the really non-related discussions to a better forum and keep this one more geared toward its original topic. I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason not to? Thanks! Susan :) - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 12:47:40 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Joe Curry" , "'Susan Kahler'" , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:47:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, that's a great expression..LIST NAZIS Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Susan Kahler'" ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question > But Susan, > It has NOT taken over the discussion for several days. It has been the > ONLY > discussion for several days. > > I have to say that anyone who wants to start alternate Triumph only > threads > are perfectly able to do so but nobody has. > > We don't need List Nazi's trying to dictate list content. > > My 2 cents worth. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Susan Kahler > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:30 AM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related > question > > I am with Henry, et al on this one. I sure don't mind some deviation > from Triumph racing-related topics, but when it takes over the whole > discussion for days I get pretty jaded. I know things get slower on the > list and turn to things like tow-vehicle discussions in the winter > season (which is related, as they are responsible for getting our racing > Triumphs to the track) but I would appreciate it if we can move the > really non-related discussions to a better forum and keep this one more > geared toward its original topic. > > I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our new > property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), > and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I > have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across > dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the > day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I > have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner > or some other coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason > not to? > > Thanks! > > Susan :) > > - > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:06:58 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: FOT List Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:06:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? I'm with Tony, I also want to see those "specific questions" go to the list. Thats what I thought the list was for. Brad Tony Drews wrote: > I'd rather see those "specific questions" go to the list. Even though > it may not be a problem / issue I'm experiencing, I learn something by > those exchanges and have it in my e-mail "archive" for future reference. > > - Tony Drews > > At 11:47 AM 10/25/2008, BOB KRAMER wrote: >> 8-Rather than posting specific questions to the list I will choose a >> few selected folks (much harder without Jack). > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:11:57 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Brad Kahler'" , "'FOT List'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:10:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? Again Brad, Nobody is preventing anyone from posing those questions. If they are not coming in maybe there are no questions to ask. But to advocate squelching other threads is a bit much, don't you think? Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:07 PM To: FOT List Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? I'm with Tony, I also want to see those "specific questions" go to the list. Thats what I thought the list was for. Brad Tony Drews wrote: > I'd rather see those "specific questions" go to the list. Even though > it may not be a problem / issue I'm experiencing, I learn something by > those exchanges and have it in my e-mail "archive" for future reference. > > - Tony Drews > > At 11:47 AM 10/25/2008, BOB KRAMER wrote: >> 8-Rather than posting specific questions to the list I will choose a >> few selected folks (much harder without Jack). > _______________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:28:18 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:28:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Amici, To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared oil in that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up after himself. So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily surfaces both before and after application. Brad (Susan's crew chief) Susan Kahler wrote: > ........I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on > our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in > tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have > with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes > (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first > practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated > metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. > Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be > helpful, or is there a reason not to? > Thanks! > > Susan :) > > - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:34:01 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: brad.kahler@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:33:46 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Hi Brad and Susan! That exact issue caught us desert racers out at Hallett. I recall Chuck Gee having a rather spectacular off after his foot slipped off of the brake. That's not something we ever think of. I've since put diamond plate alloy in my footwell but it doesn't seem to help much. The bedliner's an interesting idea but would we be able to clean it? I've been thinking of some kind of low rail around my heel area... Steve in sunny Las Vegas In a message dated 10/25/2008 12:29:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, brad.kahler@141.com writes: Amici, To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared oil in that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up after himself. So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily surfaces both before and after application. Brad (Susan's crew chief) Susan Kahler wrote: > ........I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on > our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in > tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have > with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes > (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first > practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated > metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. > Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be > helpful, or is there a reason not to? > Thanks! > > Susan :) > > - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > _______________________________________________ **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:37:29 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Brad Kahler'" , "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:37:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Is the slippage that is being described, between the shoe and the floor or with the pedals? I would think that the Pedals are the main concern. If that is the case, putting some sort of abrasive surface on the pedals might be the solution. I know the accelerator pedal on Spits and GT6's are bare metal and can get slippery in the best of situations. Perhaps some emery cloth glued on with contact cement is the way to go. Joe C. [See, I am in there with Triumph content! :) ] -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:28 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Amici, To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared oil in that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up after himself. So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily surfaces both before and after application. Brad (Susan's crew chief) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:41:24 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:40:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Skateboard tape might do the trick. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:41:27 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Brad Kahler" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:40:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question My solution...Acquire a couple of handfulls of surgey/OR/clean room tyvek booties. I wear them on my feet over my driving shoes until I get in the car. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Brad Kahler wrote: > Amici, > > To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared oil in > that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up after > himself. > > So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily surfaces > both before and after application. > > Brad > (Susan's crew chief) > > Susan Kahler wrote: > >> ........I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our >> new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), >> and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I have >> any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across >> dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the day) >> my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I have to wipe >> the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner or some other >> coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason not to? >> Thanks! >> >> Susan :) >> >> - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** >> _______________________________________________ >> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:42:42 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: FOT List Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:42:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Redux: Spitfire 1147 (six-port) cylinder head primer, Andy, Wish I could help you but I didn't even realize there were differences in the head castings for the 1147s. I'm saving some 1147 parts on the off chance that Susan might some day have to race with one of those engines (hope it never happens!) so any info you get I'd like to hear about. Brad Herald948@aol.com wrote: > Apologies for an on-topic post. :-) > Back on September 10, I posted the following...and got virtually no > response, save for a few people who offered bits of information...or sympathy > for the > lack of response from others. So I thought I'd give it one more try.... > ============ > > Can any of you of the early Spitfire persuasion give me a primer on the > "good" and/or "better" cylinder heads? I'm really interested to know about > casting numbers AND stamped numbers, what the differences are, why the > 303014 > (casting number, I think) head was once banned in SCCA Production racing but > is > now allowed again and what's so special about that particular head...in > short, any such details you'd care to share. > > I know someone once told me that one or more of the 948cc heads was good > as well; unfortunately, I lost the details on that in a long-ago computer > crash. > > Thanks for any and all insights! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:46:29 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: FOT List Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:46:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Geez, when I was a kid a skate board was what you made when you took a 2 foot long 2x6 and nailed a roller skate to the bottom side, we didn't even think about the top side! I guess I'll have to stop into some of the sporting good stores here in Pasadena and see what's available. Thanks, Brad Andre Rousseau wrote: > Skateboard tape might do the trick. > > A. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:48:20 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:48:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Bob, that solution would work for the desert racers but still leaves Susan with the problem of a sloppy crew chief to deal with....... Brad robert bownes wrote: > My solution...Acquire a couple of handfulls of surgey/OR/clean room > tyvek booties. I wear them on my feet over my driving shoes until I > get in the car. > > > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Brad Kahler > wrote: > > Amici, > > To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared > oil in that area due to her crew chief not being very good at > cleaning up after himself. > > So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily > surfaces both before and after application. > > Brad > (Susan's crew chief) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:53:36 2008 From: "Craig" To: "Brad Kahler" , "FOT List" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:58:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Brad don't forget to check with a marine supply store They work with wet Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Kahler" To: "FOT List" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question > Geez, when I was a kid a skate board was what you made when you took a 2 > foot long 2x6 and nailed a roller skate to the bottom side, we didn't > even think about the top side! I guess I'll have to stop into some of > the sporting good stores here in Pasadena and see what's available. > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > Andre Rousseau wrote: >> Skateboard tape might do the trick. >> >> A. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:56:20 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Friends of Triumph Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:54:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Anti slip tape. Maybe check out the marine shops too. A. On 25-Oct-08, at 3:46 PM, Brad Kahler wrote: > Geez, when I was a kid a skate board was what you made when you took > a 2 foot long 2x6 and nailed a roller skate to the bottom side, we > didn't even think about the top side! I guess I'll have to stop > into some of the sporting good stores here in Pasadena and see > what's available. > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > Andre Rousseau wrote: >> Skateboard tape might do the trick. >> >> A. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:56:21 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: FOT List Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:55:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Steve, I didn't realize Chuck (or any of you for that matter) had that kind of problem at Hallett. I wouldn't think diamond plate would solve the problem as its still a smooth surface. As several people have suggested the pedal itself seems to be the real issue. Right now it looks like either a spray on substance or some sort of stick on surface cover is going to be the answer. Thanks! Brad Gt6steve@aol.com wrote: > Hi Brad and Susan! > > That exact issue caught us desert racers out at Hallett. I recall > Chuck Gee having a rather spectacular off after his foot slipped off > of the brake. That's not something we ever think of. > > I've since put diamond plate alloy in my footwell but it doesn't seem > to help much. The bedliner's an interesting idea but would we be able > to clean it? I've been thinking of some kind of low rail around my > heel area... > > Steve in sunny Las Vegas > > In a message dated 10/25/2008 12:29:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > brad.kahler@141.com writes: > > Amici, > > To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared > oil in > that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up > after > himself. > > So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily > surfaces both before and after application. > > Brad > (Susan's crew chief) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:56:22 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Joe Curry" , "'Brad Kahler'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:56:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Buy non-skid tape at any boat shop/store. It is cheap and sticky back for easy installation. Put on the pedal or even a strip on the floor, also carry a small hand towel (dry) in the car to wipe your feet even on dry days. Back to the non-skid, try out the tape before going to the track to make certain you can still do the brake-throttle without your foot sticking to one or the other. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Brad Kahler'" ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question > Is the slippage that is being described, between the shoe and the floor or > with the pedals? I would think that the Pedals are the main concern. > > If that is the case, putting some sort of abrasive surface on the pedals > might be the solution. > > I know the accelerator pedal on Spits and GT6's are bare metal and can get > slippery in the best of situations. > > Perhaps some emery cloth glued on with contact cement is the way to go. > > Joe C. > > [See, I am in there with Triumph content! :) ] > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Brad Kahler > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:28 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question > > Amici, > > To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared oil in > that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up after > himself. > > So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily > surfaces both before and after application. > > Brad > (Susan's crew chief) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:57:25 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: FOT List Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:57:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Craig, Where we live finding a Marine store shouldn't be a problem, not sure if that applies to Steve and Chuck! I'll have to check with Susan if should would prefer a rubbery surface or an abrasive one. Thanks, Brad Craig wrote: > Brad don't forget to check with a marine supply store > They work with wet > > Craig _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:57:52 2008 From: Tony Drews To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:57:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Rod question I'm trying to help one of the list members buy a connecting rod, and the rod manufacturer wants the small end and big end weights of the existing rods to match to. Then it occurred to me - I have no idea how to go about doing that. Anyone know the technique for weighing each end of the rod? This is just for future reference for me, but may help out my cohort. Thanks, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 13:59:46 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: brad.kahler@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:59:28 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question After Saturday nights storm our paddock area was a bit of a quagmire. We simply never thought about it until we got into the cars for Sunday mornings practice. As I recall). For the race we had it handled with absorbent towels in each car. Live and learn... Steve, I didn't realize Chuck (or any of you for that matter) had that kind of problem at Hallett. I wouldn't think diamond plate would solve the problem as its still a smooth surface. As several people have suggested the pedal itself seems to be the real issue. Right now it looks like either a spray on substance or some sort of stick on surface cover is going to be the answer. Thanks! Brad Gt6steve@aol.com wrote: > Hi Brad and Susan! > > That exact issue caught us desert racers out at Hallett. I recall > Chuck Gee having a rather spectacular off after his foot slipped off > of the brake. That's not something we ever think of. > > I've since put diamond plate alloy in my footwell but it doesn't seem > to help much. The bedliner's an interesting idea but would we be able > to clean it? I've been thinking of some kind of low rail around my > heel area... > > Steve in sunny Las Vegas > > In a message dated 10/25/2008 12:29:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > brad.kahler@141.com writes: > > Amici, > > To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared > oil in > that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up > after > himself. > > So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily > surfaces both before and after application. > > Brad > (Susan's crew chief) **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:02:07 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Tim Murphy" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:01:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual I'm in the midst of outlining another multi page missive and will include the rear seal stuff an also about allowing the engine to vent properly. You really do not need to have an oil shower coming from everywhere on the engine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Murphy" To: ; Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual > Earlier this year when I was replacing the sleeves and pistons in the TR4 > vintage racers engine Jack sent me his "Jack Drews Tips for Engine > Assembly". It was very useful, to say the least, and was my guide for the > "rebuild". I don't know how widely Jack distributed this. I did some > additions and editing to clarify for my own use. I also had one addition > on installing the distributor to the oil pump drive that Jack had > mentioned. > If there is interest in Cary's proposal, this document may make a good > starting point. I was also talking to Kas at Watkins Glen about > installing the stock rear seal on the TR motor and Kas mentioned that he > hadn't put that in his books and maybe should have. I'm sure there are > other things that could be added to a "FOT Competition Manual". As I'm > still learning about the TR4 motor, I for one would like to see this > happen. > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:01 AM > Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack's Competition Manual > > >> Amici >> >> For many years, Uncle Jack was the custodian so to speak of the >> Coors TR3. It was moved to a mini-storage near Jacks many years ago with >> good >> intentions on my part, but nothing really happened until this past >> winter when I >> finally said lets get this done. Over the years that the car sat in >> mini-storage, Jack and I had many occassions to talk about TR3s. >> >> One of things that I so appreciated about Jack was his knowledge >> of >> Triumphs. With his untimely passing away, also went away from us a lot >> of >> experience and knowledge. I use to half-jokingly, half-serious ask Jack >> when I >> could get an advance copy of his forthcoming Triumph Competition Manual. >> >> There is extensive coverage in Kas's competition manual, but I >> realized in talking with Uncle Jack that there was a lot of experience >> and >> knowledge that Jack so unselfishly shared with anyone who asked that was >> not covered >> in the competition manual. It clear from the dialog on this "blog" that >> many >> of you also possess important experience and knowledge that would be >> helpful >> to current and future Triumph owners/racers. >> >> So I put forward for consideration the concept of FOT expanding >> upon >> Kas's original competition manual with an online manuals that FOT works >> together to build. If we are only the temporary custodians of our cars, >> then we >> need to pass along to others the knowledge with how to repair and >> maintain >> them. >> >> Cary >> >> >> >> >> >> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >> easy >> steps! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf >> ooter) >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:08:09 2008 From: Brad Kahler To: 'Friends of Triumph' Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:08:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question Dang Kas, I thought this was going to be an easy fix. I guess the Velcro I was going to put on the gas pedal and Susan's shoes won't be such a good idea after all !! It also looks like any sort of spray on solution had better be used as a last resort considering how hard it would be to remove. Thanks for the insight on the heal and toe issue. Brad Kas Kastner wrote: > Buy non-skid tape at any boat shop/store. It is cheap and sticky back > for easy installation. Put on the pedal or even a strip on the floor, > also carry a small hand towel (dry) in the car to wipe your feet even > on dry days. Back to the non-skid, try out the tape before going to > the track to make certain you can still do the brake-throttle without > your foot sticking to one or the other. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" > To: "'Brad Kahler'" ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question > > >> Is the slippage that is being described, between the shoe and the >> floor or >> with the pedals? I would think that the Pedals are the main concern. >> >> If that is the case, putting some sort of abrasive surface on the pedals >> might be the solution. >> >> I know the accelerator pedal on Spits and GT6's are bare metal and >> can get >> slippery in the best of situations. >> >> Perhaps some emery cloth glued on with contact cement is the way to go. >> >> Joe C. >> >> [See, I am in there with Triumph content! :) ] >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Brad Kahler >> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:28 PM >> To: Friends of Triumph >> Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question >> >> Amici, >> >> To add to Susan's comment there is also a fair amount of smeared oil in >> that area due to her crew chief not being very good at cleaning up after >> himself. >> >> So whatever solution that is offered will need to deal with oily >> surfaces both before and after application. >> >> Brad >> (Susan's crew chief) >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:12:03 2008 From: To: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:11:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] got a new TR4 Hey I just bought a barn find TR4, don't know if I'll race it, but I do think it sure is cool....................Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:14:53 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Brad Kahler" , "FOT List" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:14:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? does anyone have a good recipe for Beef Wellington? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Kahler" To: "FOT List" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? > I'm with Tony, I also want to see those "specific questions" go to the > list. Thats what I thought the list was for. > > Brad > > > Tony Drews wrote: >> I'd rather see those "specific questions" go to the list. Even though >> it may not be a problem / issue I'm experiencing, I learn something by >> those exchanges and have it in my e-mail "archive" for future reference. >> >> - Tony Drews >> >> At 11:47 AM 10/25/2008, BOB KRAMER wrote: >>> 8-Rather than posting specific questions to the list I will choose a >>> few selected folks (much harder without Jack). >> _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:19:59 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: budscars@comcast.net, brad.kahler@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:19:42 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? In a message dated 10/25/2008 12:15:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, budscars@comcast.net writes: does anyone have a good recipe for Beef Wellington? Racer Bud No to Beef Wellington but I'll share my Dad's recipe for kidneys... Put them in a big pot, cover with water and boil the piss out of them until tender then throw the whole mess out the window... Steve in sunny Las Vegas **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:23:19 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: brad.kahler@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:23:06 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question a message dated 10/25/2008 4:08:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, brad.kahler@141.com writes: Is the slippage that is being described, between the shoe and the >> floor or >> with the pedals? I would think that the Pedals are the main concern. >> >> If that is the case, putting some sort of abrasive surface on the pedals >> might be the solution. The best way to solve this in my experience is to remove the pedals and drill 1/4" holes through from the backside. Works best with a drill press. You can get about 10-15 holes in most British pedals. When you turn the pedal right-side up, the holes will have sharp burrs that give great grip. Resist the temptation to smooth them off. This will last for years and totally resists oil and other slippery substances. Jack Woehrle **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:26:21 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:24:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? Terrific! Racer bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: budscars@comcast.net ; brad.kahler@141.com ; fot@autox.team.net Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? In a message dated 10/25/2008 12:15:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, budscars@comcast.net writes: does anyone have a good recipe for Beef Wellington? Racer Bud No to Beef Wellington but I'll share my Dad's recipe for kidneys... Put them in a big pot, cover with water and boil the piss out of them until tender then throw the whole mess out the window... Steve in sunny Las Vegas ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:26:26 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:26:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question what shoes/soles do you have? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question >a message dated 10/25/2008 4:08:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > brad.kahler@141.com writes: > > > Is the slippage that is being described, between the shoe and the >>> floor or >>> with the pedals? I would think that the Pedals are the main concern. >>> >>> If that is the case, putting some sort of abrasive surface on the >>> pedals >>> might be the solution. > > The best way to solve this in my experience is to remove the pedals and > drill 1/4" holes through from the backside. Works best with a drill press. > You > can get about 10-15 holes in most British pedals. > > When you turn the pedal right-side up, the holes will have sharp burrs > that > give great grip. Resist the temptation to smooth them off. > > This will last for years and totally resists oil and other slippery > substances. > > > Jack Woehrle > > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf > ooter) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:31:59 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:31:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] MK1 GT6 head help Kas and I have been discussing some issues that I'm experiencing with the GT6 intake and header. After looking at a friends Spit with a PRI header which has this huge plate to bolt to the head, I am wondering if I should try and design a "sandwich" plate to mate up to the intake and header? http://www.gt6.ca/08/1018/slides/DSCN4027.html If it was done right and thick enough, I figure it would provide a means to ensure even pressure across the various pieces. As Kas just told me, the head was designed by a tractor guy! Suggestions/thoughts. Its a cold rainy day in Ottawa. So as my driving season is all but done, I need something to day dream about. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 14:46:14 2008 From: Tony Drews To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:45:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] MK1 GT6 head help It's certainly helpful if the flange of the exhaust and intake manifolds are the same thickness. Ideally, you'd have a thick flange on the exhaust manifold - helps prevent warping too. But, you can weld little blocks on a thinner flange to match thicknesses. Jack had some special compressible intake / exhaust gaskets made up for the TR-4 that helped greatly, but were like $70 per set (2 gaskets). They are not re-usable. I don't think he had pursued other models of TR, but I'd be willing to take a stab at that if there's enough interest. Given enough interest in a given model, I need a set of the "stock" gaskets and notes of any changes needed in their design for things like milled heads. For the TR-4, we had them designed so that they'd work with milled heads, and I really need to have a few sets made up with smaller intake holes - my weber manifold barely touches the gasket with the hole the same size as the normal "heavy duty" gaskets. - Tony Drews At 03:31 PM 10/25/2008, Andre Rousseau wrote: >Kas and I have been discussing some issues that I'm experiencing with the >GT6 intake and header. >After looking at a friends Spit with a PRI header which has this huge plate >to bolt to the head, >I am wondering if I should try and design a "sandwich" plate to mate up to >the intake and header? > >http://www.gt6.ca/08/1018/slides/DSCN4027.html > >If it was done right and thick enough, I figure it would provide a means to >ensure even pressure across the various pieces. > >As Kas just told me, the head was designed by a tractor guy! > >Suggestions/thoughts. > >Its a cold rainy day in Ottawa. So as my driving season is all but done, I >need something to day dream about. > >A. > >-- >Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca >'68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 15:05:48 2008 From: LOddTR@aol.com To: spitlist@cox.net, susank@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:05:16 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, Joe, I don't think we've met but I am taken aback that you that you would choose to call those you disagree with Nazi's. Unlike you I am not afraid to sign my FULL name at the bottom of a post. I was very proud to be added to this exclusive list six years ago but I will be unsubscribing this evening. I never thought a fellow Triumph racer would take the tone that you did. Leo Oddi #69 TR250 ex-FOT member In a message dated 10/25/2008 2:35:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist@cox.net writes: But Susan, It has NOT taken over the discussion for several days. It has been the ONLY discussion for several days. I have to say that anyone who wants to start alternate Triumph only threads are perfectly able to do so but nobody has. We don't need List Nazi's trying to dictate list content. My 2 cents worth. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Susan Kahler Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:30 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question I am with Henry, et al on this one. I sure don't mind some deviation from Triumph racing-related topics, but when it takes over the whole discussion for days I get pretty jaded. I know things get slower on the list and turn to things like tow-vehicle discussions in the winter season (which is related, as they are responsible for getting our racing Triumphs to the track) but I would appreciate it if we can move the really non-related discussions to a better forum and keep this one more geared toward its original topic. I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason not to? Thanks! Susan :) - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 15:13:00 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:11:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, Leo, Have you never seen Seinfeld? My allusion to List Nazis was a (maybe not so funny) attempt at humor based on an episode of Seinfeld in which there was a soup restaurant that was run by a guy that everyone referred to as the "Soup Nazi". I certainly did not intend that anyone take that as an insult. But your message tells me that there are too many people who have little in the way of a sense of humor on this list. Those who would try and limit discussions to only what they are interested in are not doing the list any good at all. I hope that you don't leave the list, certainly on my account. Regards, Joe Curry _____ From: LOddTR@aol.com [mailto:LOddTR@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:05 PM To: spitlist@cox.net; susank@141.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question Joe, I don't think we've met but I am taken aback that you that you would choose to call those you disagree with Nazi's. Unlike you I am not afraid to sign my FULL name at the bottom of a post. I was very proud to be added to this exclusive list six years ago but I will be unsubscribing this evening. I never thought a fellow Triumph racer would take the tone that you did. Leo Oddi #69 TR250 ex-FOT member In a message dated 10/25/2008 2:35:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist@cox.net writes: But Susan, It has NOT taken over the discussion for several days. It has been the ONLY discussion for several days. I have to say that anyone who wants to start alternate Triumph only threads are perfectly able to do so but nobody has. We don't need List Nazi's trying to dictate list content. My 2 cents worth. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Susan Kahler Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:30 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question I am with Henry, et al on this one. I sure don't mind some deviation from Triumph racing-related topics, but when it takes over the whole discussion for days I get pretty jaded. I know things get slower on the list and turn to things like tow-vehicle discussions in the winter season (which is related, as they are responsible for getting our racing Triumphs to the track) but I would appreciate it if we can move the really non-related discussions to a better forum and keep this one more geared toward its original topic. I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason not to? Thanks! Susan :) - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics - check it out! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 15:27:39 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: "Tony Drews" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:23:03 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod question Probably does it by finding the balance fulcrum and measuring the distance from either end.I suggest that you send him the rod to be replaced and let him figure it out! STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Drews" To: Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:57 AM Subject: [Fot] Rod question > I'm trying to help one of the list members buy a connecting rod, and > the rod manufacturer wants the small end and big end weights of the > existing rods to match to. Then it occurred to me - I have no idea > how to go about doing that. Anyone know the technique for weighing > each end of the rod? This is just for future reference for me, but > may help out my cohort. > > Thanks, Tony Drews > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 15:56:42 2008 From: Susan Kahler To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:56:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! List Nazi - lol! You can call me whatever you like if it helps the list get back on track (pun intended!). Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions about grip. It's not really the pedal but more the floor. And, despite what Brad says, there was no oil on the floor. (The cleaning and detailing chief took care of that. ;) ) The idea of a heel ridge or lip had occurred to me but I was not sure how to implement it. I do really like Jack W.'s idea of drilling through the pedals from the back. I see pedals at the speed shops that have holes in them with lips around them - similar idea, I guess. I am a little concerned about how quickly drilled lips would wear through the soles of my soft-soled driving shoes, though. Maybe buff them gently with a file to remove the really sharp edges? Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:03:11 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: susank@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:02:57 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! That works and we do knock off the really sharp parts. It doesn't take much to give you some grip. We always put a piece of alloy plate on the floor under your heel. The thinking is that you want your heel to slide a little while your foot is gripping the pedal. We also mixed sand and epoxy and smeared that on pedals several times. I think bed liner would do the same and I see no downside. If you don't like it....just peel it off. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra@aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 10/25/2008 5:57:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, susank@141.com writes: Maybe buff them gently with a file to remove the really sharp edges? **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:05:13 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Susan Kahler" , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:05:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! that's interesting..do you have rubber soled shoes? Racer Bud of 'The Fun Police' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > List Nazi - lol! You can call me whatever you like if it helps the list > get back on track (pun intended!). > > Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions about grip. It's not > really the pedal but more the floor. And, despite what Brad says, there > was no oil on the floor. (The cleaning and detailing chief took care of > that. ;) ) The idea of a heel ridge or lip had occurred to me but I was > not sure how to implement it. > > I do really like Jack W.'s idea of drilling through the pedals from the > back. I see pedals at the speed shops that have holes in them with lips > around them - similar idea, I guess. I am a little concerned about how > quickly drilled lips would wear through the soles of my soft-soled > driving shoes, though. Maybe buff them gently with a file to remove the > really sharp edges? > > Susan :) > > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:06:06 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Susan Kahler" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:05:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Susan, IMHE, the gas pedal need to be non abrasive. You want your foot to slide on it. The brake just the opposite. Abrasive on the floor is good but it will wear out the heel of your shoes quick :) A piece of angle iron mounted to the floor as a good spot to rest your heel on the other hand can be helpful. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Susan Kahler wrote: > List Nazi - lol! You can call me whatever you like if it helps the list > get back on track (pun intended!). > > Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions about grip. It's not really > the pedal but more the floor. And, despite what Brad says, there was no oil > on the floor. (The cleaning and detailing chief took care of that. ;) ) > The idea of a heel ridge or lip had occurred to me but I was not sure how > to implement it. > I do really like Jack W.'s idea of drilling through the pedals from the > back. I see pedals at the speed shops that have holes in them with lips > around them - similar idea, I guess. I am a little concerned about how > quickly drilled lips would wear through the soles of my soft-soled driving > shoes, though. Maybe buff them gently with a file to remove the really > sharp edges? > > Susan :) > > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:08:42 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:08:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > A piece of angle iron mounted to the floor as a good spot to rest your heel > on the other hand can be helpful. > > Having the heel of my other hand on the floor sounds like a rather awkward driving position to me! mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:12:41 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:10:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Yeah means your steering with your teeth and shifting with your forehead. A. 2008/10/25 Mark J Bradakis > A piece of angle iron mounted to the floor as a good spot to rest your heel >> on the other hand can be helpful. >> >> >> > Having the heel of my other hand on the floor sounds like a rather awkward > driving position to me! > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:20:36 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Mark J Bradakis'" , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:20:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Is that for Apes who drive Triumphs? Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:09 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > A piece of angle iron mounted to the floor as a good spot to rest your heel > on the other hand can be helpful. > > Having the heel of my other hand on the floor sounds like a rather awkward driving position to me! mjb. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:21:49 2008 From: Susan Kahler To: RACER BUD Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:21:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Hey Bud, I think they are rubber or a rubber compound (they're not leather). They are in Arkansas and I am in Kentucky, so I can't go look, darn it. Susan :) RACER BUD wrote: > that's interesting..do you have rubber soled shoes? > Racer Bud of 'The Fun Police' > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:23:51 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Andre Rousseau" , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:23:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Well..we are race drivers...talk to someone who doesn't know racing, and ask them how 'bright' we are Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > Yeah means your steering with your teeth and shifting with your forehead. > A. > > 2008/10/25 Mark J Bradakis > >> A piece of angle iron mounted to the floor as a good spot to rest your >> heel >>> on the other hand can be helpful. >>> >>> >>> >> Having the heel of my other hand on the floor sounds like a rather >> awkward >> driving position to me! >> >> mjb. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:26:22 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Susan Kahler'" , "'RACER BUD'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:25:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Leather is particularly slippery when it gets wet. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Susan Kahler Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:21 PM To: RACER BUD Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Hey Bud, I think they are rubber or a rubber compound (they're not leather). They are in Arkansas and I am in Kentucky, so I can't go look, darn it. Susan :) RACER BUD wrote: > that's interesting..do you have rubber soled shoes? > Racer Bud of 'The Fun Police' > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:30:23 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Susan Kahler" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:30:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Im wondering why I don't have a problem.....I'm tall, and my legs don't stretch out in my Spitfire. therfore my legs and shoes are at an angle.. with my heels 'digging in' more..giving more stability....Could your feet be resting more on the back of the shoe? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "RACER BUD" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > Hey Bud, > > I think they are rubber or a rubber compound (they're not leather). They > are in Arkansas and I am in Kentucky, so I can't go look, darn it. > Susan :) > > RACER BUD wrote: >> that's interesting..do you have rubber soled shoes? >> Racer Bud of 'The Fun Police' >> > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:34:50 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: budscars@comcast.net, susank@141.com Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:34:08 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! It wouldn't be a problem with your foot in your mouth Joe. Jack Woehrle In a message dated 10/25/2008 6:30:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, budscars@comcast.net writes: Im wondering why I don't have a problem.....I'm tall, and my legs don't stretch out in my Spitfire. therfore my legs and shoes are at an angle.. with my heels 'digging in' more..giving more stability....Could your feet be resting more on the back of the shoe? **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:38:43 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:38:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! I am going to assume that was aimed at me! By the same token I am going to pretend I didn't read that because I have never made any statements on this list that were meant to offend anyone and assume that everyone else shares that emotion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of JWoesvra@aol.com Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:34 PM To: budscars@comcast.net; susank@141.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! It wouldn't be a problem with your foot in your mouth Joe. Jack Woehrle _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:41:55 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: spitlist@cox.net, budscars@comcast.net, susank@141.com Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:41:38 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! I don't think you did anything wrong. You still have a foot in your mouth though. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra@aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 10/25/2008 6:38:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist@cox.net writes: I have never made any statements on this list that were meant to offend anyone **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:44:01 2008 From: Andre Rousseau To: Friends of Triumph Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:43:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Not sure about the holes. My MazdaSpeed has little rubber strips on the pedals. Seems to help a little, but I've still managed to slip my foot off the clutch pedal with outstanding results. I wonder what the open top ALMS and LMP1 cars do? A. On 25-Oct-08, at 5:56 PM, Susan Kahler wrote: > List Nazi - lol! You can call me whatever you like if it helps the > list get back on track (pun intended!). > > Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions about grip. It's not > really the pedal but more the floor. And, despite what Brad says, > there was no oil on the floor. (The cleaning and detailing chief > took care of that. ;) ) The idea of a heel ridge or lip had > occurred to me but I was not sure how to implement it. > I do really like Jack W.'s idea of drilling through the pedals from > the back. I see pedals at the speed shops that have holes in them > with lips around them - similar idea, I guess. I am a little > concerned about how quickly drilled lips would wear through the > soles of my soft-soled driving shoes, though. Maybe buff them > gently with a file to remove the really sharp edges? > > Susan :) -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:45:14 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Joe Curry" , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:45:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! It was me asking susan about the angle of her feet when driving..??.. Susan..Help!..War is Hell! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! >I am going to assume that was aimed at me! By the same token I am going to > pretend I didn't read that because I have never made any statements on > this > list that were meant to offend anyone and assume that everyone else shares > that emotion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of JWoesvra@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:34 PM > To: budscars@comcast.net; susank@141.com > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > > It wouldn't be a problem with your foot in your mouth Joe. > > Jack Woehrle _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:48:59 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'RACER BUD'" , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:48:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Racer BUD, If you are as big as your description tells me, I can see why you don't have problems with your feet slipping around. There is so little space in the Spit footwell that big feet can't go anywhere. Susan on the other hand has plenty of room! Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:45 PM To: Joe Curry; JWoesvra@aol.com; susank@141.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! It was me asking susan about the angle of her feet when driving..??.. Susan..Help!..War is Hell! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! >I am going to assume that was aimed at me! By the same token I am going to > pretend I didn't read that because I have never made any statements on > this > list that were meant to offend anyone and assume that everyone else shares > that emotion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of JWoesvra@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:34 PM > To: budscars@comcast.net; susank@141.com > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > > It wouldn't be a problem with your foot in your mouth Joe. > > Jack Woehrle _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:52:17 2008 From: Susan Kahler To: RACER BUD Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:51:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! lol! I might could lift you out of that foxhole but I doubt I can carry you too far! ;) I am 5'9" and there is a decent angle to my legs in my driving position, so my heels are well on the floor. The sole of my shoe wraps a little up the back for grip on the floor, but it still doesn't do well if there is any moisture on the floorboard. Susan :) RACER BUD wrote: It was me asking susan about the angle of her feet when driving..??.. Susan..Help!..War is Hell! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! I am going to assume that was aimed at me! By the same token I am going to pretend I didn't read that because I have never made any statements on this list that were meant to offend anyone and assume that everyone else shares that emotion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of JWoesvra@aol.com Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:34 PM To: budscars@comcast.net; susank@141.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! It wouldn't be a problem with your foot in your mouth Joe. Jack Woehrle _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________________________________ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1731 - Release Date: 10/17/2008 7:01 PM -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:56:22 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: 'Friends of Triumph' Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:55:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Other types of racing Boy, another message to add to the unusual parade of traffic here. But in between fussing around in the garage, driving the old white Squaretail around the area, I set up another forum, Bench Racing, at http://www.team.net/forums If you feel a need to yak about NASCAR, F1, et cetera, that's the place for you! Time to get ready for the BMCU annual end of season dinner. Hopefully the Team.Net servers won't melt while I'm enjoying dinner and a pint or two of Guiness. mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 16:58:26 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Joe Curry" , , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:58:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! It never bothers me when i'm racing...but a street car would be miserable....When i raced TR4s I had to deal with the foot slipping stuff..... Racer Bud of the Happiness Stoppers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'RACER BUD'" ; ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > Racer BUD, > If you are as big as your description tells me, I can see why you don't > have > problems with your feet slipping around. There is so little space in the > Spit footwell that big feet can't go anywhere. > > Susan on the other hand has plenty of room! > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars@comcast.net] > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:45 PM > To: Joe Curry; JWoesvra@aol.com; susank@141.com > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > > It was me asking susan about the angle of her feet when driving..??.. > Susan..Help!..War is Hell! > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: ; ; > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > > >>I am going to assume that was aimed at me! By the same token I am going >>to >> pretend I didn't read that because I have never made any statements on >> this >> list that were meant to offend anyone and assume that everyone else >> shares >> that emotion. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of JWoesvra@aol.com >> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:34 PM >> To: budscars@comcast.net; susank@141.com >> Cc: fot@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! >> >> It wouldn't be a problem with your foot in your mouth Joe. >> >> Jack Woehrle _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 17:02:50 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Mark J Bradakis'" , "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:02:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Other types of racing Somehow I doubt that is a solution. The trouble with that is you don't know who is lurking on that list and you are familiar with your friends on the FOT list. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:55 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Other types of racing Boy, another message to add to the unusual parade of traffic here. But in between fussing around in the garage, driving the old white Squaretail around the area, I set up another forum, Bench Racing, at http://www.team.net/forums If you feel a need to yak about NASCAR, F1, et cetera, that's the place for you! Time to get ready for the BMCU annual end of season dinner. Hopefully the Team.Net servers won't melt while I'm enjoying dinner and a pint or two of Guiness. mjb. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 17:11:27 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:09:30 EDT Subject: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly FoT There is a rotor assembly for sale on EBay and the claim is that is NOS. I asked, and it has no pin in the shaft & rotor. Is it not true that all OEM rotors were pinned? Recent aftermarket oil pump offerings may be the cause of recent catastophic failures. A little knowledge in this group may save others this grief. Joe A _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 17:29:50 2008 From: "David W. Riddle" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:19:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question > I've been thinking of some kind of low rail around my heel area... Heel stops work great in our Formula cars and karts. Had not thought about putting them in the TR. Might have to give that some thought _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 17:30:01 2008 From: "David W. Riddle" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:28:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! >I wonder what the open top ALMS and LMP1 cars do? Same thing we do in Formula cars. Skateboard grip tape on the pedals and heels stops on the floor. Babcock what did you do in your DSR? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 17:53:34 2008 From: "J.C. Hassall" To: Tony Drews ,fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:55:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod question At 03:57 PM 10/25/2008, Tony Drews wrote: >I'm trying to help one of the list members buy a connecting rod, and >the rod manufacturer wants the small end and big end weights of the >existing rods to match to. Then it occurred to me - I have no idea >how to go about doing that. Anyone know the technique for weighing >each end of the rod? This is just for future reference for me, but >may help out my cohort. > >Thanks, Tony Drews Tony, my first attempt at balancing my own rods involved weighing each end, then grinding to match. Perhaps a workable plan, but I came up with an even better method. Anyway, the fixture I made supported one end while I weighed the other. Having the rod exactly horizontal didn't seem to be important. I found some small ABEC 5 (fairly high quality, from McMaster Carr if memory serves) ball bearings. I made a vertically adjustable T fixture from scrap Aluminum. Into the upper piece I threaded a 1/4" bolt, on which the bearings sat. One end of the rod was suspended on the bearings while the other end sat on a beam balance. It's important to use 2 bearings, or a very wide one, so the rod doesn't wobble. BTW, I tried simply balancing the rods on a nail, but the coefficient of friction was too variable to give reliable results. That's why a set of quality bearings are needed. jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 96% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 18:13:05 2008 From: "Bill DeWar" To: , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:12:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly Joe & listers, A while back available replacement oil pump rotors were not pinned onto the drive shaft. This led to some slipping on the shaft after extended driving. Loss of oil pressure the result. Lately I've heard of a few of the newer replacement rotors with the pin having said pin move out and jam the oil pump. This usually results in the drive tang breaking off and loss of oil pressure. All the originals I've ever taken apart were pinned but I do not know for sure they all were. Bill DeWar TR Rescue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly > FoT > > There is a rotor assembly for sale on EBay and the claim is that is NOS. > > I asked, and it has no pin in the shaft & rotor. > > Is it not true that all OEM rotors were pinned? > > Recent aftermarket oil pump offerings may be the cause of recent catastophic > failures. A little knowledge in this group may save others this grief. > > Joe A > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 19:01:10 2008 From: "Rob" <19to1tr6@comcast.net> To: "Susan Kahler" , "Friends of Triumph" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:00:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, I covered the floor with the stainless wire Pegasus sells. It keeps any fluid on the floor and away from your shoes Its also rough on the shoes but non slip rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question >I am with Henry, et al on this one. I sure don't mind some deviation from >Triumph racing-related topics, but when it takes over the whole discussion >for days I get pretty jaded. I know things get slower on the list and turn >to things like tow-vehicle discussions in the winter season (which is >related, as they are responsible for getting our racing Triumphs to the >track) but I would appreciate it if we can move the really non-related >discussions to a better forum and keep this one more geared toward its >original topic. > I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our new > property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), > and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I > have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across > dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the day) > my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I have to > wipe the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner or some > other coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason not to? > Thanks! > > Susan :) > > - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 19:17:48 2008 From: Jerry Barr To: Bill Babcock Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:17:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... Hey! snowmobiles even have heated hand grips now! I camped out and it was so damn cold last night I opened up my sleeping bag and let my Black Lab in with me. I could have used another dog On Oct 24, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > You do need professional help, but not for making decisions. Here's > the summary: > > You live in the midwest > Winter arrives there as early as september > it's almost november > racing is a summer sport for anyone but Finns and people who think > snowmobiles are fun > If you go to a horse race you'll be warm and comfortable, enjoy > yourself completely, and you could win some money > If you do this car race you'll be cold, miserable, and you'll spend > lots of money > > Obvious decision--go race your car. > > > > On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:32 AM, BillDentin@aol.com wrote: > >> Amici... >> >> Bob Wismer and I are leaving for BLACKHAWK FARMS RACEWAY and this >> week end's >> 38th running of THAT LOOONG RACE. I'm racing my TR3 in Midwestern >> Council's >> 'exciting' V/H group (see Scott Barr's description earlier this >> week). Wismer >> is running his S2 in one of the 'long' races. That's the good >> news. The bad >> news is Saturday's weather shows a high of 53 degrees and showers. >> Sunday >> predicts a low of 30, high of 53, windy and possible snow flurries. >> I need >> some >> professional help making decisions. >> >> Bill (Damdinger) >> >> PS...My second passion in life is handicapping horse races. The >> Breeders Cup >> is this week end. I should be a a whole different race track. I'd >> be much >> warmer, and would spend a lot less money. >> >> >> >> >> >> ************** >> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your >> favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it >> out! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= >> http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb@bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill@kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:17:50 2008 From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:17:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations Hello all, I queried the list awhile back on my high speed vibration experienced at The Glen and again [after having the drive-shaft straightened] at Brainard. With lots of great ideas from the list, I now know that my brake drums are in reasonable balance, diff is OK, axles are true and now also know more about drive-shafts. My theory is that the shop in Indy checked the shaft with a dial indicator. They found it .030" out of true, straightened it, and did some crude form of balance check and pronounced it "good to go". Didn't solve the problem. My local and trusted axle/drive-shaft shop put it on their [relatively] high-tech CNC machine and every red light on the thing came on! The slip yoke was the culprit. Although the slop was almost undetectable, it was just the grease in the splines making things seem tight. When I left their shop I was thinking of where to get another drive-shaft. Took me about 3 blocks to realize that I already have a worn-out 45 year old drive-shaft... why would I want another one? Had a new one made with Spicer components and it should be good for another 45+ years. The moral of the story is that we are [most] all driving around with 40+/- year old drive-shafts. This is not likely a problem experienced "back in the day"... they simply hadn't gone enough miles. Any who have the mystery vibrations might want to have a look. After 6 races in the last 7 weekends, this weekend feels a bit 'blah' rolling over to 6 of 8. Watkins Glen had been on the books since last year and curtailed my out of town racing for the season. Brainard MN was kind of on the way home. I got Tony's message when I had made it more than 1/2 way home and made a U-turn in Wichita KS for Elkhart Lake to run the Road America Vintage Enduro [hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS]?. Home again for a day before I got the itch and loaded up a BMW 2002 for the Pueblo [Colo] Enduro. After a couple recovery days I was a bit down with the idea of not keeping the streak going. That Thursday was my birthday and I remembered that the racing streak wasn't over. Sunday was our monthly Karting league and after missing a few races I still had a chance to regain 3rd in our season points race - and did. The next weekend was actually a much needed off. Last weekend was up to Pikes Peak International with "The Brick" [IT spec 2002]. Hope to bring the average back up to 8 of 9 next weekend by running 2 races/2tracks in one weekend [TR + kart]. Broke, tired, broke, happy and did I mention BROKE?? But having more fun than I thought was legal these days. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:19:29 2008 From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" To: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:19:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] got a new TR4 And I thought I had checked every barn in the state. Guess I better go check my own barn to make sure you didn't "find" one of mine. Congrats. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:11 PM, wrote: > Hey I just bought a barn find TR4, don't know if I'll race it, but > I do think > it sure is cool....................Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:35:57 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Jerry Barr" , "Bill Babcock" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:35:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... Woohooo!..This is WUNTERIFICBUNCHOFNUTS Racer Bud... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Barr" To: "Bill Babcock" Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... > Hey! snowmobiles even have heated hand grips now! I camped out and it > was so damn cold last night I opened up my sleeping bag and let my > Black Lab in with me. I could have used another dog > On Oct 24, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> You do need professional help, but not for making decisions. Here's >> the summary: >> >> You live in the midwest >> Winter arrives there as early as september >> it's almost november >> racing is a summer sport for anyone but Finns and people who think >> snowmobiles are fun >> If you go to a horse race you'll be warm and comfortable, enjoy >> yourself completely, and you could win some money >> If you do this car race you'll be cold, miserable, and you'll spend >> lots of money >> >> Obvious decision--go race your car. >> >> >> >> On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:32 AM, BillDentin@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Amici... >>> >>> Bob Wismer and I are leaving for BLACKHAWK FARMS RACEWAY and this >>> week end's >>> 38th running of THAT LOOONG RACE. I'm racing my TR3 in Midwestern >>> Council's >>> 'exciting' V/H group (see Scott Barr's description earlier this >>> week). Wismer >>> is running his S2 in one of the 'long' races. That's the good >>> news. The bad >>> news is Saturday's weather shows a high of 53 degrees and showers. >>> Sunday >>> predicts a low of 30, high of 53, windy and possible snow flurries. >>> I need >>> some >>> professional help making decisions. >>> >>> Bill (Damdinger) >>> >>> PS...My second passion in life is handicapping horse races. The >>> Breeders Cup >>> is this week end. I should be a a whole different race track. I'd >>> be much >>> warmer, and would spend a lot less money. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************** >>> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your >>> favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it >>> out! >>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= >>> http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:40:34 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Rob" <19to1tr6@comcast.net>, "Susan Kahler" , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:40:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, I also race Bicycles..How about Cleats on the Pedals, so that we're locked in?....We Race! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" <19to1tr6@comcast.net> To: "Susan Kahler" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question >I covered the floor with the stainless wire Pegasus sells. It keeps any >fluid on the floor and away from your shoes Its also rough on the shoes but >non slip rob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Kahler" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related > question > > >>I am with Henry, et al on this one. I sure don't mind some deviation from >>Triumph racing-related topics, but when it takes over the whole discussion >>for days I get pretty jaded. I know things get slower on the list and >>turn to things like tow-vehicle discussions in the winter season (which is >>related, as they are responsible for getting our racing Triumphs to the >>track) but I would appreciate it if we can move the really non-related >>discussions to a better forum and keep this one more geared toward its >>original topic. >> I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on our new >> property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in tomorrow, yay!), >> and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have with him is if I >> have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes (like walking across >> dew-covered grass to get in him for the first practice session of the >> day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated metal floorboard and I have >> to wipe the soles off with paper towels. Would spraying bedliner or some >> other coating on the floorboard be helpful, or is there a reason not to? >> Thanks! >> >> Susan :) >> >> - ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:42:14 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "David W. Riddle" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:42:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Same thing I do in the Ambro and Peyote. A dead pedal to rest my foot on, I spray the floor with a thick layer of clear acrylic and sprinkle granulated sugar onto it, then I put non-skid self adhesive strips anywhere that's high wear (like under my heels.) On Oct 25, 2008, at 4:28 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> I wonder what the open top ALMS and LMP1 cars do? > > Same thing we do in Formula cars. Skateboard grip tape on the > pedals and heels stops on the floor. > > Babcock what did you do in your DSR? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:42:32 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Friends of Triumph" , "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:42:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations You are Terrific!...You took lots of time to send this long email..Good Job Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg "Lunker" Hilyer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:17 PM Subject: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations > Hello all, > I queried the list awhile back on my high speed vibration experienced > at The Glen and again [after having the drive-shaft straightened] at > Brainard. With lots of great ideas from the list, I now know that my > brake drums are in reasonable balance, diff is OK, axles are true and > now also know more about drive-shafts. > My theory is that the shop in Indy checked the shaft with a dial > indicator. They found it .030" out of true, straightened it, and did > some crude form of balance check and pronounced it "good to go". > Didn't solve the problem. My local and trusted axle/drive-shaft shop > put it on their [relatively] high-tech CNC machine and every red > light on the thing came on! The slip yoke was the culprit. Although > the slop was almost undetectable, it was just the grease in the > splines making things seem tight. When I left their shop I was > thinking of where to get another drive-shaft. Took me about 3 blocks > to realize that I already have a worn-out 45 year old drive-shaft... > why would I want another one? Had a new one made with Spicer > components and it should be good for another 45+ years. > The moral of the story is that we are [most] all driving around with > 40+/- year old drive-shafts. This is not likely a problem experienced > "back in the day"... they simply hadn't gone enough miles. Any who > have the mystery vibrations might want to have a look. > After 6 races in the last 7 weekends, this weekend feels a bit 'blah' > rolling over to 6 of 8. Watkins Glen had been on the books since last > year and curtailed my out of town racing for the season. Brainard MN > was kind of on the way home. I got Tony's message when I had made it > more than 1/2 way home and made a U-turn in Wichita KS for Elkhart > Lake to run the Road America Vintage Enduro [hey Tony, did I remember > to say THANKS]?. Home again for a day before I got the itch and > loaded up a BMW 2002 for the Pueblo [Colo] Enduro. After a couple > recovery days I was a bit down with the idea of not keeping the > streak going. That Thursday was my birthday and I remembered that the > racing streak wasn't over. Sunday was our monthly Karting league and > after missing a few races I still had a chance to regain 3rd in our > season points race - and did. The next weekend was actually a much > needed off. Last weekend was up to Pikes Peak International with "The > Brick" [IT spec 2002]. Hope to bring the average back up to 8 of 9 > next weekend by running 2 races/2tracks in one weekend [TR + kart]. > Broke, tired, broke, happy and did I mention BROKE?? But having more > fun than I thought was legal these days. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:43:14 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:43:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] got a new TR4 I would love to find a TR4... RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg "Lunker" Hilyer" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] got a new TR4 > And I thought I had checked every barn in the state. Guess I better > go check my own barn to make sure you didn't "find" one of mine. > Congrats. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > > On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:11 PM, wrote: > >> Hey I just bought a barn find TR4, don't know if I'll race it, but >> I do think >> it sure is cool....................Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:44:47 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Jerry Barr Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:44:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Dumb & Dumber... Probably your basic Three Dog Night (Jeremiah was a Bullfrog) On Oct 25, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > Hey! snowmobiles even have heated hand grips now! I camped out and > it was so damn cold last night I opened up my sleeping bag and let > my Black Lab in with me. I could have used another dog > On Oct 24, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> You do need professional help, but not for making decisions. Here's >> the summary: >> >> You live in the midwest >> Winter arrives there as early as september >> it's almost november >> racing is a summer sport for anyone but Finns and people who think >> snowmobiles are fun >> If you go to a horse race you'll be warm and comfortable, enjoy >> yourself completely, and you could win some money >> If you do this car race you'll be cold, miserable, and you'll spend >> lots of money >> >> Obvious decision--go race your car. >> >> >> >> On Oct 24, 2008, at 10:32 AM, BillDentin@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Amici... >>> >>> Bob Wismer and I are leaving for BLACKHAWK FARMS RACEWAY and this >>> week end's >>> 38th running of THAT LOOONG RACE. I'm racing my TR3 in Midwestern >>> Council's >>> 'exciting' V/H group (see Scott Barr's description earlier this >>> week). Wismer >>> is running his S2 in one of the 'long' races. That's the good >>> news. The bad >>> news is Saturday's weather shows a high of 53 degrees and showers. >>> Sunday >>> predicts a low of 30, high of 53, windy and possible snow flurries. >>> I need >>> some >>> professional help making decisions. >>> >>> Bill (Damdinger) >>> >>> PS...My second passion in life is handicapping horse races. The >>> Breeders Cup >>> is this week end. I should be a a whole different race track. I'd >>> be much >>> warmer, and would spend a lot less money. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************** >>> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your >>> favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it >>> out! >>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= >>> http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb@bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill@kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:46:54 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bill Babcock'" , "'David W. Riddle'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:46:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! What do you do about the ants? :) Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:42 PM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Same thing I do in the Ambro and Peyote. A dead pedal to rest my foot on, I spray the floor with a thick layer of clear acrylic and sprinkle granulated sugar onto it, then I put non-skid self adhesive strips anywhere that's high wear (like under my heels.) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:49:26 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:49:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations Not that I'd stoop to telling you I told you so, but I think I told you so. I had the exact same problem, went through the exact same "low- rent shop near VIR says it's okay" problem, then took the shaft back to Portland with me and took it to a good driveshaft outfit. In my case it was just the bearings starting to brinnel and turn in the cups even though they felt fine. On Oct 25, 2008, at 7:17 PM, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > Hello all, > I queried the list awhile back on my high speed vibration > experienced at The Glen and again [after having the drive-shaft > straightened] at Brainard. With lots of great ideas from the list, I > now know that my brake drums are in reasonable balance, diff is OK, > axles are true and now also know more about drive-shafts. > My theory is that the shop in Indy checked the shaft with a dial > indicator. They found it .030" out of true, straightened it, and did > some crude form of balance check and pronounced it "good to go". > Didn't solve the problem. My local and trusted axle/drive-shaft shop > put it on their [relatively] high-tech CNC machine and every red > light on the thing came on! The slip yoke was the culprit. Although > the slop was almost undetectable, it was just the grease in the > splines making things seem tight. When I left their shop I was > thinking of where to get another drive-shaft. Took me about 3 blocks > to realize that I already have a worn-out 45 year old drive-shaft... > why would I want another one? Had a new one made with Spicer > components and it should be good for another 45+ years. > The moral of the story is that we are [most] all driving around with > 40+/- year old drive-shafts. This is not likely a problem > experienced "back in the day"... they simply hadn't gone enough > miles. Any who have the mystery vibrations might want to have a look. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:52:37 2008 From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" To: "RACER BUD" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:52:43 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations They don't call me "Long Winded Lunker" for nothing! Greg "Lunker" Hiyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:42 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > You are Terrific!...You took lots of time to send this long > email..Good Job > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg "Lunker" Hilyer" > > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:17 PM > Subject: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations > > >> Hello all, >> I queried the list awhile back on my high speed vibration >> experienced at The Glen and again [after having the drive-shaft >> straightened] at Brainard. With lots of great ideas from the >> list, I now know that my brake drums are in reasonable balance, >> diff is OK, axles are true and now also know more about drive- >> shafts. >> My theory is that the shop in Indy checked the shaft with a dial >> indicator. They found it .030" out of true, straightened it, and >> did some crude form of balance check and pronounced it "good to >> go". Didn't solve the problem. My local and trusted axle/drive- >> shaft shop put it on their [relatively] high-tech CNC machine and >> every red light on the thing came on! The slip yoke was the >> culprit. Although the slop was almost undetectable, it was just >> the grease in the splines making things seem tight. When I left >> their shop I was thinking of where to get another drive-shaft. >> Took me about 3 blocks to realize that I already have a worn-out >> 45 year old drive-shaft... why would I want another one? Had a >> new one made with Spicer components and it should be good for >> another 45+ years. >> The moral of the story is that we are [most] all driving around >> with 40+/- year old drive-shafts. This is not likely a problem >> experienced "back in the day"... they simply hadn't gone enough >> miles. Any who have the mystery vibrations might want to have a >> look. >> After 6 races in the last 7 weekends, this weekend feels a bit >> 'blah' rolling over to 6 of 8. Watkins Glen had been on the books >> since last year and curtailed my out of town racing for the >> season. Brainard MN was kind of on the way home. I got Tony's >> message when I had made it more than 1/2 way home and made a U- >> turn in Wichita KS for Elkhart Lake to run the Road America >> Vintage Enduro [hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS]?. Home >> again for a day before I got the itch and loaded up a BMW 2002 >> for the Pueblo [Colo] Enduro. After a couple recovery days I was >> a bit down with the idea of not keeping the streak going. That >> Thursday was my birthday and I remembered that the racing streak >> wasn't over. Sunday was our monthly Karting league and after >> missing a few races I still had a chance to regain 3rd in our >> season points race - and did. The next weekend was actually a >> much needed off. Last weekend was up to Pikes Peak International >> with "The Brick" [IT spec 2002]. Hope to bring the average back >> up to 8 of 9 next weekend by running 2 races/2tracks in one >> weekend [TR + kart]. >> Broke, tired, broke, happy and did I mention BROKE?? But having >> more fun than I thought was legal these days. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque NM >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:52:40 2008 From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" To: "RACER BUD" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:52:50 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] got a new TR4 What color? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR$ #314 Albuquerque NM On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:43 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > I would love to find a TR4... > RB > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg "Lunker" Hilyer" > > To: > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] got a new TR4 > > >> And I thought I had checked every barn in the state. Guess I >> better go check my own barn to make sure you didn't "find" one of >> mine. Congrats. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque NM >> On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:11 PM, wrote: >>> Hey I just bought a barn find TR4, don't know if I'll race it, >>> but I do think >>> it sure is cool....................Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot@autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 20:55:51 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Joe Curry" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:55:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Actually, most of the sugar washes away when you wash the car, it leaves little pockmarks. Easier on stuff than sand is. And I just take the ants along for the ride. You can hear their little screams. On Oct 25, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > What do you do about the ants? :) > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:42 PM > To: David W. Riddle > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > > Same thing I do in the Ambro and Peyote. A dead pedal to rest my foot > on, I spray the floor with a thick layer of clear acrylic and sprinkle > granulated sugar onto it, then I put non-skid self adhesive strips > anywhere that's high wear (like under my heels.) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 21:02:38 2008 From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" To: Bill Babcock Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:02:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations Yes Bill, by the process of elimination I did get to the root of the problem. Funny thing to me is that although you are a fountain of information on the the list, you literally wouldn't give me the time of day when I introduced myself at The Glen. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR$ #314 Albuquerque NM On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:49 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Not that I'd stoop to telling you I told you so, but I think I told > you so. I had the exact same problem, went through the exact same > "low-rent shop near VIR says it's okay" problem, then took the > shaft back to Portland with me and took it to a good driveshaft > outfit. In my case it was just the bearings starting to brinnel and > turn in the cups even though they felt fine. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 21:14:41 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:14:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Good vibrations, bad vibrations Sorry about that, no idea why that would be so, I don't remember any fire drills going on. I'm usually fairly friendly though easily distracted. On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > Yes Bill, by the process of elimination I did get to the root of the > problem. Funny thing to me is that although you are a fountain of > information on the the list, you literally wouldn't give me the time > of day when I introduced myself at The Glen. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR$ #314 > Albuquerque NM > On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:49 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 21:17:48 2008 From: "Jim" To: "'RACER BUD'" , "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:17:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, I'm oldschool... Still run toe clips on my late 70s vintage Frejus racing bike. From experience.. No matter how tight the toe straps you can get free in an emergency. As to pedal grip/floor pan issues.... First off, Home despot, wallymart, tarjey etc sell the "safety tape". Clean the floor pan and pedals properly and stick it on to the floor and brake pedal. Unless you kick around like a newborn the heels of the racing shoes should last for a season or two. For the brake pedal you can also go old school... And GLUE the stock rubber pad appropriate to your vintage to the brake pedal. Contact cement (industrial style) typically does the job. That's worked on my autocrosser for years... Also on my daily driver (driven harder than the autocrosser ;) Worst case? Put the car on a lift and drill lots of small holes through the floor pan. Call it a factory drainage system if protested. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:40 PM To: Rob; Susan Kahler; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question I also race Bicycles..How about Cleats on the Pedals, so that we're locked in?....We Race! Racer Bud ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the rental car that fits your needs. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uHs8EbqUWyi1kueodv5VLxa 9msqhKhQJulOpLQdXQj72MI9/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 21:22:44 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:19:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! What about painting the floor with some paint with a little sand mixed in it? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net To: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Sat Oct 25 16:56:22 2008 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! List Nazi - lol! You can call me whatever you like if it helps the list get back on track (pun intended!). Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions about grip. It's not really the pedal but more the floor. And, despite what Brad says, there was no oil on the floor. (The cleaning and detailing chief took care of that. ;) ) The idea of a heel ridge or lip had occurred to me but I was not sure how to implement it. I do really like Jack W.'s idea of drilling through the pedals from the back. I see pedals at the speed shops that have holes in them with lips around them - similar idea, I guess. I am a little concerned about how quickly drilled lips would wear through the soles of my soft-soled driving shoes, though. Maybe buff them gently with a file to remove the really sharp edges? Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 21:25:19 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:25:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, Good Night Gang....You Are The Best!....What Fun This FOT Was Today!! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: "'RACER BUD'" ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:17 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question I'm oldschool... Still run toe clips on my late 70s vintage Frejus racing bike. From experience.. No matter how tight the toe straps you can get free in an emergency. As to pedal grip/floor pan issues.... First off, Home despot, wallymart, tarjey etc sell the "safety tape". Clean the floor pan and pedals properly and stick it on to the floor and brake pedal. Unless you kick around like a newborn the heels of the racing shoes should last for a season or two. For the brake pedal you can also go old school... And GLUE the stock rubber pad appropriate to your vintage to the brake pedal. Contact cement (industrial style) typically does the job. That's worked on my autocrosser for years... Also on my daily driver (driven harder than the autocrosser ;) Worst case? Put the car on a lift and drill lots of small holes through the floor pan. Call it a factory drainage system if protested. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:40 PM To: Rob; Susan Kahler; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question I also race Bicycles..How about Cleats on the Pedals, so that we're locked in?....We Race! Racer Bud ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the rental car that fits your needs. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uHs8EbqUWyi1kueodv5VLxa9msqhKhQJulOpLQdXQj72MI9/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 21:41:10 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: britbits@netzero.com Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:41:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question Reminds me of the first two lessons I learned about formula cars... 1) Drain holes don't. 2) Drain holes are bi-directional. My first formula car race was in the rain at Pocono. Miserable. Also the only time I've ever passed a Formula Continental in my Formula Vee. Still trying to build a Triumph powered formula car... Bob On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Jim wrote: > > Worst case? Put the car on a lift and drill lots of small holes through > the > floor pan. Call it a factory drainage system if protested. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 21:58:17 2008 From: "Jim" To: "'robert bownes'" Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:57:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question On the flip side, one of the best autocrosses I've ever run was in the rain. I was one of the few to have rain tires in addition to the DOT slicks everyone else runs.... In pouring rain I was outrunning late model Corvettes in a 1500 on a "fast" course. There comes a point in racing a Triumph that you just gotta say "I don't care, I'm going for it" and go. I got held up early in my career by having a co-driver that worried more about appearance than in car prep or skill. Luckily I got rid of that obstacle. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: robert bownes [mailto:bownes@seiri.com] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:41 PM To: britbits@netzero.com Cc: RACER BUD; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Yeah, what about FOT??? + racing Triumph-related question Reminds me of the first two lessons I learned about formula cars... 1) Drain holes don't. 2) Drain holes are bi-directional. My first formula car race was in the rain at Pocono. Miserable. Also the only time I've ever passed a Formula Continental in my Formula Vee. Still trying to build a Triumph powered formula car... Bob On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Jim wrote: Worst case? Put the car on a lift and drill lots of small holes through the floor pan. Call it a factory drainage system if protested. ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the right business program for you and take your career to the next level. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s24g0UNfRaOA2Awq13DsANK xa0glwFAC1QqVc3Ny03Wo0Ih/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 22:25:13 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:25:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Formula 3? robert bownes wrote: > > Still trying to build a Triumph powered formula car... > > Photo, page 223, Robson's "The Works Triumphs" mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 25 22:27:21 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Mark J Bradakis" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:27:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Formula 3? yeah...I remember seeing that a Gaydon. On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > robert bownes wrote: > >> >> Still trying to build a Triumph powered formula car... >> >> >> > Photo, page 223, Robson's "The Works Triumphs" > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 01:01:04 2008 From: spyderweb@uwalumni.com To: "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 03:00:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] ... + racing Triumph-related question If the real problem is as Susan described in her original note (moisture on the soles of her shoes, as from "walking across dew-covered grass"), I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the obvious solution: Don't wear your "driving shoes" while you're not "driving". Paddling an open car around in the rain, of course, requires a more elegant solution.... Jim Hill ----- Original Message ----- > > Susan Kahler wrote: >> ........I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on >> our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in >> tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have >> with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes >> (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first >> practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated >> metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. >> Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be >> helpful, or is there a reason not to? >> Thanks! >> >> Susan :) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 01:17:14 2008 From: Guyots3@wmconnect.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 04:16:59 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 69 In a message dated 10/25/2008 9:28:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request@autox.team.net writes: > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:19:59 -0500 > From: "Barr, Scott" > Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > > What about painting the floor with some paint with a little sand mixed in it? > > Scott There is an industrial paint for just this purpose, it's called Iron Oxide, Phenolic Tung Oil, and is generally used on the legs of oil rigs, and also on the underneath of my Triumph's bodyshell, applied on ? 1990 ? and still stuck fast! It dries like emery and you can even file your fingernails with it. Leon http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 06:18:10 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: sbarr@McCarty-Law.com, susank@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:17:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! That's all I do, Simple, cheap, & easy to touch-up. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott To: susank@141.com; fot@autox.team.net Sent: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:19 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! What about painting the floor with some paint with a little sand mixed in it? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net To: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Sat Oct 25 16:56:22 2008 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! List Nazi - lol! You can call me whatever you like if it helps the list get back on track (pun intended!). Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions about grip. It's not really the pedal but more the floor. And, despite what Brad says, there was no oil on the floor. (The cleaning and detailing chief took care of that. ;) ) The idea of a heel ridge or lip had occurred to me but I was not sure how to implement it. I do really like Jack W.'s idea of drilling through the pedals from the back. I see pedals at the speed shops that have holes in them with lips around them - similar idea, I guess. I am a little concerned about how quickly drilled lips would wear through the soles of my soft-soled driving shoes, though. Maybe buff them gently with a file to remove the really sharp edges? Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 06:28:34 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: "David W. Riddle" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:27:04 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! I have made up a dead pedal for the TR3, using the dimmer switch bracket for the vertical mount. It helps not only in cornering, but also with right foot pedal work, steadying the lower body and giving extra leverage for applying all wheel drum brakes! STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > >I wonder what the open top ALMS and LMP1 cars do? > > Same thing we do in Formula cars. Skateboard grip tape on the pedals > and heels stops on the floor. > > Babcock what did you do in your DSR? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 06:31:37 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:31:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly Joe don't quote me but I'm pretty sure that they were all pinned. It's easy enough to pin the replacements. They also usually need to have the end float set, and a good edge-break on the tang end. Glen -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 7:09 pm Subject: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly FoT There is a rotor assembly for sale on EBay and the claim is that is NOS. I asked, and it has no pin in the shaft & rotor. Is it not true that all OEM rotors were pinned? Recent aftermarket oil pump offerings may be the cause of recent catastophic failures. A little knowledge in this group may save others this grief. Joe A Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 06:35:44 2008 From: Susan Kahler To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:35:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! That is pretty much what I am considering. I am thinking the bedliner may not do too well if any oil gets on it, and the sand would overcome slickness. Simple, cheap and easy is good. :) Thanks guys! Susan :) fubog1@aol.com wrote: > That's all I do, Simple, cheap, & easy to touch-up. > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barr, Scott > To: susank@141.com; fot@autox.team.net > Sent: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:19 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! > > What about painting the floor with some paint with a little sand mixed > in it? > > Scott > > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 06:39:48 2008 From: Susan Kahler To: Guyots3@wmconnect.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:39:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 69 A surface to file my nails on would be great for the back straight at VIR or the straight at Mosport, for when I finish my copy of War and Peace! Susan :) Guyots3@wmconnect.com wrote: There is an industrial paint for just this purpose, it's called Iron Oxide, Phenolic Tung Oil, and is generally used on the legs of oil rigs, and also on the underneath of my Triumph's bodyshell, applied on ? 1990 ? and still stuck fast! It dries like emery and you can even file your fingernails with it. Leon http://community.websh ots.com/user/vitesse1963 Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________________________________ -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 06:58:52 2008 From: tom strange To: FOT List , Brad Kahler Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 06:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? add me too ... slow learners like myself need all the input they can get :>) (in the famous words of a robot ... need input! .....) Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Brad Kahler wrote: From: Brad Kahler Subject: Re: [Fot] what about FOT? To: "FOT List" Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 2:06 PM I'm with Tony, I also want to see those "specific questions" go to the list. Thats what I thought the list was for. Brad Tony Drews wrote: > I'd rather see those "specific questions" go to the list. Even though > it may not be a problem / issue I'm experiencing, I learn something by > those exchanges and have it in my e-mail "archive" for future reference. > > - Tony Drews > > At 11:47 AM 10/25/2008, BOB KRAMER wrote: >> 8-Rather than posting specific questions to the list I will choose a >> few selected folks (much harder without Jack). > _______________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 07:17:09 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: Fubog1@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:16:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly-Answered Glen, The Other Gurus say the same about pinning. And it is in Book II of Kas' Triumph Trilogy...he says to look at more than the pictures I need to look at end float in the future, too. I have one of Greg Solow's upgraded pumps and also have used in spec OEM units rather than go aftermarket components. Thanks! Joe A > Joe don't quote me but I'm pretty sure that they were all pinned. > It's easy enough to pin the replacements. They also usually need to > have the end float set, and a good edge-break on the tang end. > Glen _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 07:58:51 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:58:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] AMBRO Returns to Iowa next week. FOT Just in case anyone is curious about the status of the AMBRO...Tom Chandler & I are going to see Rick Junkermeier at Wyotech next week. Rick and students are wrapping up the elements of the build that they are going to do and we plan to pick it up on Wednesday. Hopefully, I can finish the mechanicals this winter and have it on its wheels by next summer. 'Special' thanks to FOT Rick for taking the project to this level, and he will remain involved in the future. A couple of the FOT hope to join us in Laramie for the pick up and I will contact Robert Ames (Bill's son) to see if he able to join us from Steam Boat Springs. What is the big deal? This is a product of the Friends of Triumph, starting with Bally, PA, and supported throughout the FOT. With Appreciation, Joe Alexander _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 08:08:35 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 08:08:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] AMBRO Returns to Iowa next week. do you guys know John and Derek Wilburn in SOCAL? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [Fot] AMBRO Returns to Iowa next week. > FOT > > Just in case anyone is curious about the status of the AMBRO...Tom > Chandler & > I are going to see Rick Junkermeier at Wyotech next week. Rick and > students > are wrapping up the elements of the build that they are going to do and we > plan to pick it up on Wednesday. > > Hopefully, I can finish the mechanicals this winter and have it on its > wheels > by next summer. > > 'Special' thanks to FOT Rick for taking the project to this level, and he > will remain involved in the future. > > A couple of the FOT hope to join us in Laramie for the pick up and I will > contact Robert Ames (Bill's son) to see if he able to join us from Steam > Boat > Springs. > > What is the big deal? This is a product of the Friends of Triumph, > starting > with Bally, PA, and supported throughout the FOT. > > With Appreciation, > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 08:29:11 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: RACER BUD Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 08:29:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] AMBRO Returns to Iowa next week. I know John, He drives the Peerless Ambro as I recall, nice guy. On Oct 26, 2008, at 8:08 AM, RACER BUD wrote: > do you guys know John and Derek Wilburn in SOCAL? > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:58 AM > Subject: [Fot] AMBRO Returns to Iowa next week. > > >> FOT >> >> Just in case anyone is curious about the status of the AMBRO...Tom >> Chandler & >> I are going to see Rick Junkermeier at Wyotech next week. Rick and >> students >> are wrapping up the elements of the build that they are going to do >> and we >> plan to pick it up on Wednesday. >> >> Hopefully, I can finish the mechanicals this winter and have it on >> its wheels >> by next summer. >> >> 'Special' thanks to FOT Rick for taking the project to this level, >> and he >> will remain involved in the future. >> >> A couple of the FOT hope to join us in Laramie for the pick up and >> I will >> contact Robert Ames (Bill's son) to see if he able to join us from >> Steam Boat >> Springs. >> >> What is the big deal? This is a product of the Friends of >> Triumph, starting >> with Bally, PA, and supported throughout the FOT. >> >> With Appreciation, >> >> Joe Alexander >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 08:35:36 2008 From: Ed Diehl To: Susan Kahler Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 08:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! Hi, Susan. Another thing to consider: Place a strip of carpet beside the car(driver side) and wipe feet off each time you get in and that will help keep the floor clean and dry.We do that . It works. Cheers, Ed. Ed Diehl --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Susan Kahler wrote: From: Susan Kahler Subject: Re: [Fot] Thanks for the grip ideas! To: Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 5:56 PM List Nazi - lol! You can call me whatever you like if it helps the list get back on track (pun intended!). Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions about grip. It's not really the pedal but more the floor. And, despite what Brad says, there was no oil on the floor. (The cleaning and detailing chief took care of that. ;) ) The idea of a heel ridge or lip had occurred to me but I was not sure how to implement it. I do really like Jack W.'s idea of drilling through the pedals from the back. I see pedals at the speed shops that have holes in them with lips around them - similar idea, I guess. I am a little concerned about how quickly drilled lips would wear through the soles of my soft-soled driving shoes, though. Maybe buff them gently with a file to remove the really sharp edges? Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 09:18:12 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: philhyer@gmail.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:16:35 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-4 SVRA Rules Question This is technically against the rules. I see no reason why you cannot box the frame if it has lost strength due to age. That only adds weight in an area where it is not an advantage. Running triangulation to the shock towers is not proper for the period. I would be interested to see what the FOT forum has to say about this, and in particular, whether there are many "vintage" cars running that way now. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director In a message dated 10/26/2008 11:53:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, <<>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 09:32:01 2008 From: Don Elliott <58tr3a@videotron.ca> To: fubog1@aol.com, N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:32:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly I bought an oil pump for my 1958 TR3A in UK in 1987 as I was starting my restoration. I rebuilt the engine in 1990 but a few years later heard about the repro pumps with no cross pin. They have very crude straight knurling on the drive shaft to "secure" the lobed part. On many of these pumps, it was reported that the knurling slips and you suddenly lose all oil pressure - and you don't know why. So I dismantled mine to check it and found it had no cross pin. I checked the hardness on my original pump shaft and also on the repro. To emboss the repro shaft with straight knurling, the shaft is only mild steel and I couldn't even get a hardness reading on the Rockwell "C" scale, the shaft was so soft. So I used my micrometer to measure the wear on the repro shaft with about 20,000 miles of touring on it. The shaft had worn 0.003" on one side of the OD where it is supported laterally by the bushing because of the mild steel. The bushing ID was still fine so I reused it. I went to my local bearing supply shop and bought a 12" length of centerless-ground hardened bar stock (Rockwell C 60) with the correct OD for about $12.00 and made a new drive shaft. I ground it to the correct length, then ground a tang in the top end. Next, I ground through the surface hardening on two opposite sides, cross-drilled it and put in my own cross pin. Then I swaged the cross-pin in so it wouldn't come loose, and slide sideways to score the other part of the pump. I have driven my stock TR3A 80,000 touring miles with this pump and all I had to do to the pump in 2006 when I rebuilt the engine again was to lap the bottom cover plate of the pump to get the specified clearance. The home-made shaft and cross-pin were still fine. I still have the original bushing for the pump shaft with 181,000 miles on it from new. I agree with Glen. I too believe all the original pumps were cross pinned. You can see that in the S-T Parts Catalog. Don Elliott, Original Owner, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly > Joe don't quote me but I'm pretty sure that they were all pinned. > It's easy enough to pin the replacements. They also usually need to have > the end float set, and a good edge-break on the tang end. > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: N197TR4@cs.com > To: fot@autox.team.net > Sent: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 7:09 pm > Subject: [Fot] Serious Question on TR3/4 Oil Pump Rotor Assembly > > FoT > > There is a rotor assembly for sale on EBay and the claim is that is NOS. > > I asked, and it has no pin in the shaft & rotor. > > Is it not true that all OEM rotors were pinned? > > Recent aftermarket oil pump offerings may be the cause of recent > catastophic > failures. A little knowledge in this group may save others this grief. > > Joe A > Fot mailing list _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 09:39:25 2008 From: Jay Creel To: JWoesvra@aol.com, philhyer@gmail.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-4 SVRA Rules Question Jack, Is that something that was written into the rules back in the day? If so, any idea on when the rules changed to allow for triangulation of the suspension to the frame and cage? Just curious about the evolution of the rules. Jay Creel ________________________________ From: "JWoesvra@aol.com" To: philhyer@gmail.com; fot@autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:16:35 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-4 SVRA Rules Question This is technically against the rules. I see no reason why you cannot box the frame if it has lost strength due to age. That only adds weight in an area where it is not an advantage. Running triangulation to the shock towers is not proper for the period. I would be interested to see what the FOT forum has to say about this, and in particular, whether there are many "vintage" cars running that way now. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director In a message dated 10/26/2008 11:53:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, <<>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http ://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 09:52:20 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: jaxonracing@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:52:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] General safety was TR-4 SVRA Rules Question I was reading the Classic Motorsports report on their GT6 restoration and got the impression that it won the 1969 ARRC with just a rollbar, no cage at all? If so, what was the timeline for the evolution of the 4, 6,8 and 10 point cages. I know that the safety structures have evolved in the SCCA since I started hanging out with them in the early 80's. Where do we say that your car is too safe and you must revert back to the period spec? Leather helmets and coveralls dipped in borax for the TR3's? Maybe a T-shirt with a pack of ciggys rolled up in the sleeve? I'm just being facetious now but it does pose a difficult question for the clubs to deal with. Do the prewar cars have to run without rollbars? Serious query, not being silly now... Jack, Is that something that was written into the rules back in the day? If so, any idea on when the rules changed to allow for triangulation of the suspension to the frame and cage? Just curious about the evolution of the rules. Jay Creel **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 10:02:01 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:01:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] General safety was TR-4 SVRA Rules Question in CSRG the way we work the safety thing is to 'strongly suggest' different features....Mandating certain safety items creates a liabilty mire......in regards to roll cages...We would not think of telling someone that they cannot put a cage in their car Racer Bud... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: [Fot] General safety was TR-4 SVRA Rules Question >I was reading the Classic Motorsports report on their GT6 restoration and > got the impression that it won the 1969 ARRC with just a rollbar, no cage > at > all? If so, what was the timeline for the evolution of the 4, 6,8 and 10 > point > cages. I know that the safety structures have evolved in the SCCA since > I > started hanging out with them in the early 80's. Where do we say that > your > car is too safe and you must revert back to the period spec? Leather > helmets > and coveralls dipped in borax for the TR3's? Maybe a T-shirt with a pack > of > ciggys rolled up in the sleeve? > > I'm just being facetious now but it does pose a difficult question for the > clubs to deal with. Do the prewar cars have to run without rollbars? > Serious > query, not being silly now... > > Jack, > Is that something that was written into the rules back in the day? If > so, any idea on when the rules changed to allow for triangulation of the > suspension to the frame and cage? Just curious about the evolution of > the > rules. > > Jay Creel > > > > **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > favorites, > no registration required and great graphics b check it out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 10:40:40 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "FOT" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:42:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Roll Bar/Cage History I think I've mentioned before that my wife is Historian for Oregon Region SCCA. Anyway, after reading some of the list messages this morning, I went downstairs and grabbed the 1967 and 1971 GCR's. The 1967 Appendix Z just covers roll bars and is only 3 1/2 pages long. It allows the roll bar to be as much as 1 inch below the top of the drivers helmet. It covers minimum bracing, but I cannot find where it precludes stiffening the frame. In fact, it states "The roll bar must be designed in such a way as to be an extension of the frame itself in such a way as to properly distribute the loads." In 1971, there was a major change in Appendix Z. The appendix grew to 5 1/2 pages and now included several drawings. One change was that the top of the bar now had to be at least 2 inches above the drivers head. I remember having to install a new roll bar in the Spitfire I now own as a result of this rule change. Appendix Z states "It is recommended, but not mandatory, except in Trans-Am competition, that all cars utilize a roll cage type of construction." Again, I see nothing that limits stiffening the frame, quite the opposite as it now includes "Considerable care must be used to add as necessary to the frame structure itself in such a way as to properly distribute the loads." BTW in response to an earlier question about spoilers, it appears that this is the first time that a front spoiler is allowed. Jim Norlin _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 10:49:32 2008 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: jaxonracing@yahoo.com, philhyer@gmail.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:49:10 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-4 SVRA Rules Question ~ extra chassis stiffening Triangulation was never a part of the rules. It was not addressed. When roll bars were mandated, the only rule was that it had to meet the basic specifications so far as tubing types (seamless) and wall thickness. You had to be able to convince whatever tech inspector you met on a particular day, that it was sound and safe. Throughout the sixties, roll bar technology advanced to the point where the smarter teams were realizing that a properly braced roll bar also gave the whole car more rigidity. Triangulation was used more extensively, always with the reason being to enhance driver protection. By the late sixties-early seventies, the gloves were off and bars went everywhere, still in the guise of driver protection, but strategically placed for platform stiffness. The trade-off of course was added weight. In Vintage Racing, we try to respect time lines, so historically speaking, bars to the shock towers are appropriate for cars prepared to about 1970 and later. Having said that, we also embrace improved safety enhancements that may override period sensitivities from time to time. It is a fine line that you have to judge for yourself. Peer pressure is also a factor. One solution that I have used is to move such a car to run with a newer group (SVRA Group 8 rather than Group 3). You can look them up.... In the past, many folks moving into VR from current spec racing have been made to cut out offending braces. Each organization deals with it differently. The choice is yours and I respect it either way. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra@aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 10/26/2008 12:39:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing@yahoo.com writes: Jack, Is that something that was written into the rules back in the day? If so, any idea on when the rules changed to allow for triangulation of the suspension to the frame and cage? Just curious about the evolution of the rules. Jay Creel **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 13:50:30 2008 From: Larry Young To: racery@comcast.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:50:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod question To finish this description. The fulcrum point gives the center of gravity. You then divide the total rod weight by the fraction distance from crankpin (center) to center of gravity and wrist pin (center) to center of gravity. You can also do a direct measurement. Lay a thin rod (I use a finishing nail) on your scale. Rest the small end on a block next to the scale and the big end so that the nail is lined up with the center of the crankpin. This way you know you are measuring the weight at the center of the crankpin. Reverse the ends and measure the small end weight. If you do it right, the two weights should add up to the total rod weight. Both of these methods should give similar results. Larry Steven Preiss wrote: > Probably does it by finding the balance fulcrum and measuring the distance > from either end. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 15:26:01 2008 From: Larry Young To: Tony Drews , fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:25:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod question I should have added that the part which is not on the scale should also be resting with the pin center on something that approximates a knife edge. Larry Young wrote: > To finish this description. The fulcrum point gives the center of > gravity. You then divide the total rod weight by the fraction > distance from crankpin (center) to center of gravity and wrist pin > (center) to center of gravity. > You can also do a direct measurement. Lay a thin rod (I use a > finishing nail) on your scale. Rest the small end on a block next to > the scale and the big end so that the nail is lined up with the center > of the crankpin. This way you know you are measuring the weight at > the center of the crankpin. Reverse the ends and measure the small > end weight. If you do it right, the two weights should add up to the > total rod weight. > > Both of these methods should give similar results. > Larry > > Steven Preiss wrote: >> Probably does it by finding the balance fulcrum and measuring the >> distance >> from either end. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 15:41:47 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Larry Young Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:41:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod question Here's one way to do it http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/RodBalance.html . I've had good luck with simply placing the rods on a crankshaft with no bearing and weighing the small end, then placing the small end on a wrist pin and weighing the big end. Perhaps because the rods I use are a smooth enough circle on the outside of both the big end and small end that as long as the rod is horizontal, I'm probably not having much variation in the lever length--at least not enough to measure. But then I never tried to do anything more precise, so I might be off more than I think. Seems like using a knife edge and a pivot rod would have the same inaccuracies--the placement of the knife edge or rod will determine the length of the lever the weight acts through. I didn't think about this until Larry talked about his method, but it might be worthwhile to build the jig shown in the link. On Oct 26, 2008, at 3:25 PM, Larry Young wrote: > I should have added that the part which is not on the scale should > also be resting with the pin center on something that approximates a > knife edge. > > Larry Young wrote: >> To finish this description. The fulcrum point gives the center of >> gravity. You then divide the total rod weight by the fraction >> distance from crankpin (center) to center of gravity and wrist pin >> (center) to center of gravity. >> You can also do a direct measurement. Lay a thin rod (I use a >> finishing nail) on your scale. Rest the small end on a block next >> to the scale and the big end so that the nail is lined up with the >> center of the crankpin. This way you know you are measuring the >> weight at the center of the crankpin. Reverse the ends and measure >> the small end weight. If you do it right, the two weights should >> add up to the total rod weight. >> >> Both of these methods should give similar results. >> Larry >> >> Steven Preiss wrote: >>> Probably does it by finding the balance fulcrum and measuring the >>> distance >>> from either end. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 16:15:07 2008 From: "rob" <19to1tr6@comcast.net> To: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:15:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] dead battery I have seen jumper cables that will work from cigarete lighter to cig lighter advertized on TV but can't find the product localy. I have a busted hood cable on a chevy S10. Can i wire the 2 lighter socketts togeather and charge the dead one enough to get it started I don't want to make this a sittuation of knowing only enough to be dangerous to ones self and equipment thanks for the help rob _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 16:18:16 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: 19to1tr6@comcast.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:17:51 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] dead battery It will work if you have a week to slowly charge the offending battery. If you crank the dead one have lots of extinguishers on hand or 911 programmed on your cell. The little wires will not carry the current required. It's a scam... In a message dated 10/26/2008 4:15:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 19to1tr6@comcast.net writes: I have seen jumper cables that will work from cigarete lighter to cig lighter advertized on TV but can't find the product localy. I have a busted hood cable on a chevy S10. Can i wire the 2 lighter socketts togeather and charge the dead one enough to get it started I don't want to make this a sittuation of knowing only enough to be dangerous to ones self and equipment thanks for the help rob Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 17:15:12 2008 From: "Randall" To: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:15:03 -0800 Subject: Re: [Fot] dead battery > Can i wire the 2 lighter socketts togeather and charge the > dead one enough to get it started It can work, but you need a higher voltage to charge the battery (like having the donor car running so the alternator brings the voltage up). Since you also can't pass more than 10 or 15 amps that way without risking blowing a fuse on the S10; I would suggest connecting an ordinary 10 or 15 amp charger through the lighter socket. Give it time to work (minimum 1/2 hour, IMO, which is nowhere near a full charge but might be enough to start it); then disconnect it before actually trying to start the S10. BTW, don't know if it would apply, but on my Chevy I was able to lie under the car and stick my arm up between the radiator and engine, to grab the hood latch mechanism and open it. After we got the battery fire out, of course. (How stupid, to run the hood latch cable above the battery.) Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 17:22:22 2008 From: "rob" <19to1tr6@comcast.net> To: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:22:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] dead battery ok can i charge at the rate of two amps directly to the lighter? Or perhaps a small trickle charger? thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: 19to1tr6@comcast.net Cc: FOT@autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] dead battery It will work if you have a week to slowly charge the offending battery. If you crank the dead one have lots of extinguishers on hand or 911 programmed on your cell. The little wires will not carry the current required. It's a scam... In a message dated 10/26/2008 4:15:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 19to1tr6@comcast.net writes: I have seen jumper cables that will work from cigarete lighter to cig lighter advertized on TV but can't find the product localy. I have a busted hood cable on a chevy S10. Can i wire the 2 lighter socketts togeather and charge the dead one enough to get it started I don't want to make this a sittuation of knowing only enough to be dangerous to ones self and equipment thanks for the help rob _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 17:32:57 2008 From: "Randall" To: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:32:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [Fot] dead battery > ok can i charge at the rate of two amps directly to the > lighter? Or perhaps a > small trickle charger? Sure, either one will work. Will take longer (a few hours minimum, better overnight), and still a good idea to disconnect before trying to start it. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 17:44:22 2008 From: William G Rosenbach To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:42:40 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Vintage Racing Organizations Greetings all, A question of locating a Vintage Racing Organization. If my neighborhood racetracks were Lime Rock & Watkins Glen, and I wanted to get into Vintage Racing, what organization would I look into? TIA, Bill ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your needs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mzvz6dVfgSEhFMs9UoyXK3fpshpvn5FYke335ODJSjJtfuC/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 17:55:00 2008 From: Mike Jackson To: William G Rosenbach , FOT@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:54:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: [Fot] Vintage Racing Organizations SVRA, HSR and VRG all race at Watkkins. I think VSCCA still has an event at Lime Rock but their elegibility rules are very restrictive and only a small portion of the present vintage race community would be able to run any of their events. There used to be a Labor Day weekend race but it was turned into a high buck invitation only event. Not sure if it still exists at all. Check the schedule in Victory Lane magazine. They try really hard to keep up with all orgainization's schedules. Mike Jackson - Race Director VDCA -----Original Message----- >From: William G Rosenbach >Sent: Oct 26, 2008 8:42 PM >To: FOT@autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Vintage Racing Organizations > >Greetings all, >A question of locating a Vintage Racing Organization. >If my neighborhood racetracks were Lime Rock & Watkins Glen, and I wanted >to get into Vintage Racing, what organization would I look into? >TIA, >Bill >____________________________________________________________ >Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your needs. >http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mzvz6dVfgSEhFMs9UoyXK3fpshpvn5FYke335ODJSjJtfuC/ >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 17:58:09 2008 From: BLD4139@aol.com To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:57:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Vintage racing in New England Hi Bill...if you are near Lime Rock, the VSCCA is the one to join.....you can visit our website at _WWW.VSCCA.ORG_ (http://www.vscca.org/) and check out the rules, car eligibility, events and so forth....I have been a member since 1979...we run cars made prior to 1960....generally we have 4-6 events at Lime Rock each year, 1 event at Watkins, several hillclimbs a year, and several rallies each year for the "street" folks....Mike DiCola **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211625659x1200715650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=82&bcd=emailf ooter) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 19:51:54 2008 From: "Doug Mitchell" To: "Fot" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:51:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Off Topic - Gathering of Mustangs and Legends Amici, After the recent off topic discussions, I hesitate to forward this, but since I learned of this event from this group, I will suffer the arrows surely headed my way.. I received an email yesterday informing me of the availability of a DVD of last years GML in Columbus, Ohio. It is to be released on 28 November at a cost of $29.95. Pre-orders before 31 October are $24.95. If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of the email, let me know and I can forward it to you. I have no fiduciary interest in this, just sending it on since many members of this list are also aircraft aficionados. Cheers, Doug -- Doug Mitchell dmitchel@sbcglobal.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 26 21:41:49 2008 From: To: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:41:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Bought TR7 with Dolly Sprint Motor Ok I never thought I'd do it, but in the same Barn with the TR4 was a TR7 that some one had hot rodded with the Dolomite sprint engine. So I bought it. Is the Dolly sprint engine any good? It had to be worth the price paid just for the Panasport wheels...........................Cheers Henry Morrison, Albuquerque _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 04:25:02 2008 From: edenma@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 07:24:22 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Off Topic - Gathering of Mustangs and Legends Thanks Doug!? I need to pick one up. Cheers! Mark A. Eden Denver, CO _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 04:31:53 2008 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: dmitchel@sbcglobal.net, fot@autox.team.net ("Fot") Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 07:31:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] - Gathering of Mustangs and Legends Cool! Mustang is one of my all time favorites. Perhaps you can send info with subject line and folks can use delete button if they wish. This group has a lot depth. PLANES TRAINS AUTOMOBILES SAILBOATS Joe A >Amici, > >After the recent off topic discussions, I hesitate to forward this, but >since I learned of >this event from this group, I will suffer the arrows surely headed my way.. > >I received an email yesterday informing me of the availability of a DVD of >last years >GML in Columbus, Ohio. It is to be released on 28 November at a cost of >$29.95. >Pre-orders before 31 October are $24.95. > >If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of the email, let me know and I >can forward >it to you. > >I have no fiduciary interest in this, just sending it on since many members >of this list >are also aircraft aficionados. > >Cheers, > >Doug > >-- >Doug Mitchell >dmitchel@sbcglobal.net > >[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 04:36:54 2008 From: "Terry Stetler" To: , "\"Fot\"" , Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 07:36:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] - Gathering of Mustangs and Legends I had the great good fortune to attend the event. 50+ Mustangs in formation. What a sound, what a sight. Wish you all could have been there. Terry Stetler. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 07:24:27 2008 From: George Harmuth To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:24:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 72 Bill, try the SCCA Historic Racing Group too. We allow production based cars 25 years old or more, no formula cars. Last year we ran at Pocono, the Watkins Glen, Beave Run and the new track in southern NJ, NJMP. A little more restrictive than some of the other groups, you need to have an SCCA licence but the upside is alot of us put on slicks and run the SCCA prod group too so we get more track time on a weekend., website http://www.historicracing.org/ Forum http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/VHSracing/ "Greetings all, A question of locating a Vintage Racing Organization. If my neighborhood racetracks were Lime Rock & Watkins Glen, and I wanted to get into Vintage Racing, what organization would I look into? TIA, Bill" G. Michael Harmuth _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 07:40:31 2008 From: George Harmuth To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:40:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 70 I use a non slip paper that was designed for porch steps. It's an adhesive backed weather proof sandpaper that comes in stair tread sized, 6"x 24" sheets. I cleaned the metal pedals and the floor directly below the pedals where my heels rest and cut pieces to fit. I also put a small strip on a section of the roll bar where I sometimes stand when I get in the car from the passenger side. The strips stick for a year or two, and I keep a section in the parts box to replace them at the track if needed. Strips designed for a shower floor would work as well but I don't believe that they have as much grip or come in a large sheet to cover the heel area. > Susan Kahler wrote: >> ........I am sitting in my hotel room in Kentucky waiting to close on >> our new property Tuesday (although they are letting me move in >> tomorrow, yay!), and thinking about Tristan. One of the issues I have >> with him is if I have any moisture on the soles of my driving shoes >> (like walking across dew-covered grass to get in him for the first >> practice session of the day) my heels slide on the unpainted/uncoated >> metal floorboard and I have to wipe the soles off with paper towels. >> Would spraying bedliner or some other coating on the floorboard be >> helpful, or is there a reason not to? >> Thanks! >> >> Susan G. Michael Harmuth _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 08:17:00 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , , "\"Fot\"" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 08:16:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] - Gathering of Mustangs and Legends I've been sailing all my life in S. F. Bay Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ""Fot"" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:31 AM Subject: [Fot] - Gathering of Mustangs and Legends > Cool! > > Mustang is one of my all time favorites. Perhaps you can send info with > subject line and folks can use delete button if they wish. > > This group has a lot depth. PLANES TRAINS AUTOMOBILES SAILBOATS > > Joe A > > > >>Amici, >> >>After the recent off topic discussions, I hesitate to forward this, but >>since I learned of >>this event from this group, I will suffer the arrows surely headed my >>way.. >> >>I received an email yesterday informing me of the availability of a DVD of >>last years >>GML in Columbus, Ohio. It is to be released on 28 November at a cost of >>$29.95. >>Pre-orders before 31 October are $24.95. >> >>If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of the email, let me know and >>I >>can forward >>it to you. >> >>I have no fiduciary interest in this, just sending it on since many >>members >>of this list >>are also aircraft aficionados. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Doug >> >>-- >>Doug Mitchell >>dmitchel@sbcglobal.net >> >>[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had >>a name of winmail.dat] >>_______________________________________________ >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>http://www.fot-racing.com >> >>Fot mailing list >>Fot@autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 19:23:18 2008 From: william.tobin3@verizon.net To: harmug@us.ibm.com Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:23:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 23, Issue 72 Hi, try VRG, nice bunch of folks and run the tracks mentioned. Also SVRA. If you have an SVRA license, SCCA will honor it. VSCDA is also a great bunch, but are located more in the Midwest. They have a good vintage driver's school in May at Gingerman. Highly recommended. SCCA driver's schools will also get you in the mix but their focus is a little different. Good luck, Bill Tobin TR6 Back-of-the-packer and having fun. Oct 27, 2008 09:24:26 AM, harmug@us.ibm.com wrote: Bill, try the SCCA Historic Racing Group too. We allow production based cars 25 years old or more, no formula cars. Last year we ran at Pocono, the Watkins Glen, Beave Run and the new track in southern NJ, NJMP. A little more restrictive than some of the other groups, you need to have an SCCA licence but the upside is alot of us put on slicks and run the SCCA prod group too so we get more track time on a weekend., website http://www.historicracing.org/ Forum http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/VHSracing/ "Greetings all, A question of locating a Vintage Racing Organization. If my neighborhood racetracks were Lime Rock & Watkins Glen, and I wanted to get into Vintage Racing, what organization would I look into? TIA, Bill" G. Michael Harmuth _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot < BR> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 21:19:02 2008 From: Justin Wagner To: Friends of Triumph Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:12:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Justin: TRIUMPH TR2 JACK OR ??? Can anyone definitively identify this jack? Even if you believe it was used in a different model, is it possible that it's an early TR2 jack? --Justin http://i23.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/14/99/6d52_1.JPG _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 21:55:47 2008 From: Kurt Oblinger To: Justin Wagner Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:54:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Justin: TRIUMPH TR2 JACK OR ??? Justin, I don't think it's an early TR2 jack. Jim Keller had an early TR2 jack that I photographed at one time. All of my photos are in storage so I can't lay my hands on them. My recollection is that it was the same basic design as the later TR2-TR3 jack, just wimpier. The jack you show looks like the arm fits in a socket probably along the rocker panel or frame like a VW Beetle or a Porsche. Are there any markings on the jack? Justin Wagner wrote: > Can anyone definitively identify this jack? Even if you believe it > was used in a different model, is it possible that it's an early TR2 > jack? --Justin > > http://i23.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/14/99/6d52_1.JPG > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 22:02:27 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Justin Wagner Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:02:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Justin: TRIUMPH TR2 JACK OR ??? looks german, not brit. On Oct 27, 2008, at 9:12 PM, Justin Wagner wrote: > Can anyone definitively identify this jack? Even if you believe it > was used in a different model, is it possible that it's an early TR2 > jack? --Justin > > http://i23.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/14/99/6d52_1.JPG > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 27 23:06:08 2008 From: "Greg Solow" To: "Friends of Triumph" , "Justin Wagner" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:05:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Justin: TRIUMPH TR2 JACK OR ??? It is a Morgan +4 jack. The pin fits into a hole in a crossmember of the chassis. I have 4 of them. It is an excellent jack. Made by "King Dick" tools. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 13:11:32 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:11:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] AutoMeter Fuel pressure gauge I was cleaning up my shop today and uncovered an Autometer Sport-Comp model 3412 mechanical fuel pressure gauge. It measures from Zero to 15 psi and is great for cars with carbs. I surplused it when I went to EFI a couple of years ago. It has a connection for a 4AN hose fitting. The gauge face is 2 5/8" and has a protruding aluminum bezel. I paid something like $45 for it from Summit racing and would let it go for around 30 bucks if anyone is interested. Contact me off list please. Joe Curry _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 13:37:33 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:37:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Correction Re: my previous post. The fuel pressure gauge is model 3411 not 3412. The reason for my error is that I am using the box that the new gauge came in to protect the old gauge I took out. The new one is 312 and the old one is 3411. I hope that is clear. I'm still scratching my head. Joe C. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 17:41:45 2008 From: "Scott Janzen" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:42:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations For my GT6 vintage racer/hillclimb car, I am looking for recommendations for a cam grind that will give me more torque/horsepower at a lower rpm than the Crane grind F-254/325-8 in the engine now. It's 300 degree duration, intake opens at 47 degrees BTDC w .016 lift, closes 73 ABDC. It is pure road race and really starts pulling at 5,000 rpm up to 7,000. Would like to move this down to low 4,000 range, given that I run some hill climbs and try not to go over 6,500 rpm most of the time. Engine is 11:1, roller rockers, ported head, 6-2-1 headers, three weber 40 DCOE. Suggestions? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 17:47:07 2008 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: s.janzen@comcast.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:48:25 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations Scott, My mailer-Demon is rejecting your address. Contact me direct, Steve In a message dated 10/28/2008 5:42:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, s.janzen@comcast.net writes: For my GT6 vintage racer/hillclimb car, I am looking for recommendations for a cam grind that will give me more torque/horsepower at a lower rpm than the Crane grind F-254/325-8 in the engine now. It's 300 degree duration, intake opens at 47 degrees BTDC w .016 lift, closes 73 ABDC. It is pure road race and really starts pulling at 5,000 rpm up to 7,000. Would like to move this down to low 4,000 range, given that I run some hill climbs and try not to go over 6,500 rpm most of the time. Engine is 11:1, roller rockers, ported head, 6-2-1 headers, three weber 40 DCOE. Suggestions? **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 19:36:04 2008 From: GSFuqua1@aol.com To: s.janzen@comcast.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:35:27 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations Hello Friends, I have a customer looking for a Stainless Steel Exhaust system for his GT 6. I figured rather than try to find it for myself I'd ask the experts. Thanks, Gary **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 19:39:08 2008 From: Scott Cypher To: Friends of Triumph Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:36:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Anyone Gone to a Dyno in SE PA? > I'm looking for a chassis dyno in the philly/NJ/MD area that I can > take my car to, to tune in my engines. Has anyone been to a dyno in > this area that knew what they were doing? Any dynos > familiar with our cars? > > Thanks > > -Scott Cypher > > SCCA #57 HP Spitfire 1500 #362573 > Reading, PA _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 05:01:01 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:58:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 stainless exhaust (was GT6 Camshaft recommendations) I've had pretty good luck with the one I bought from Rimmer Brothers years ago. It took just a little fitting, but has held up nicely. Scott B. PS, photo attached for Gary, the rest of you are out of luck.... -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:35 PM To: s.janzen@comcast.net; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations Hello Friends, I have a customer looking for a Stainless Steel Exhaust system for his GT 6. I figured rather than try to find it for myself I'd ask the experts. Thanks, Gary **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics b check it \ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of GT6 Webers.jpg] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 05:12:57 2008 From: "Henry Frye" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:12:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 SS Exhaust System Gary, Tim Hutchisen hung a Bell system on his street GT6, the burble is really sweet. I am sure he will chime in with the details when he checks in. > -----Original Message----- > From: GSFuqua1@aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations > > Hello Friends, I have a customer looking for a Stainless > Steel Exhaust system for his GT 6. I figured rather than try > to find it for myself I'd ask the experts. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 05:29:11 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:29:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 SS Exhaust System I have a Rimmer system on my MK1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1XPCBqufgU DCP01876.jpg A. 2008/10/29 Henry Frye > Gary, > > Tim Hutchisen hung a Bell system on his street GT6, the burble is really > sweet. I am sure he will chime in with the details when he checks in. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: GSFuqua1@aol.com > > Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations > > > > Hello Friends, I have a customer looking for a Stainless > > Steel Exhaust system for his GT 6. I figured rather than try > > to find it for myself I'd ask the experts. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 06:17:08 2008 From: "Scott Janzen" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:18:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Paul King, who was nominated and seconded several weeks ago, tells me he has not recieved the huge volume of email over the past week! How do we get him on the subscriber list? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 10:15:25 2008 From: Dennis DeLap To: FOT Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR3 Front Brake Shoes Amici - anyone out there still use TR3 front brakes on their race car? I have a bunch of used but still good kevlar pads - free for the asking. These are the ones that Ted has made up somewhere near his place in Ohio. Shoot me an email off list Dennis DeLap _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 13:41:08 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:40:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 4:55 Triumph 10 Diff and 1147 engine available A friend of mine is cleaning out a bunch of stuff he has on hand and asked me if I had any use for any of it. Among the things he has is a Triumph 10 diff (4.55:1) and a complete Mk1 Spit engine. I sold him the Spit engine a few years ago for his Triumph 10 project which never got off the ground. He is now selling everything he has. I am not sure about the compatibility of the 4:55 gears with an early Spit diff since the TR-10 has a solid axle setup instead of IRS. But there is some intelligence that says it is compatible. The engine came with my Black Mk1 Spit when I bought it and my friend says that it appears to be in very good condition. I am sure that it is at least good enough to be built up as a spare race engine for anyone who is racing Mk1 or Mk2 Spits. If anyone is interested in exploring either of these things, let me know off list and I will put you in touch with him. Regards, Joe Curry _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 14:05:18 2008 From: "Kramer, Robert" To: "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:40:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] San Diego Feb 23-25 Southern California FoT, I have to be in San Diego Feb 24-25 and I'll be flying in on Sunday. This will cause me to miss the first CVAR rave of the year and I am looking for something to compensate. Is there anything auto or racing related going on in the area on the weekend prior? I don't even know what tracks are near by if there is one. Any advice appreciated. Bob Kramer Austin, TX _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 15:05:10 2008 From: "Russ Moore" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:04:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] summers over!!! Being in upstate NY we are certainly used to the "non-driving" seasons referred to as winter up here. We have had flurries for the past 3 days where I am and only 8 miles away was pelted with 8" of snow. (stationary cold rain for those of you below the Mason Dixon line). What's worse is only 30 minutes away from me had some 2 feet of snow! Glad I snuck in that weekend of racing with VRG at Watkins Glen only 10 days ago! Great event with lots of seat time. I now retreat to my garage and Guinness for the next 5 months! Motor head hibernation northern style. I have discovered I have in my possession the oldest surviving Ferguson TE-20 model tractor in North America, built by Standard Motor Co. Ltd in Coventry. It possibly is may be the oldest survivor in the world with the serial number of "TE-17" out of over 500,000 made. Sir John Black played a role in the project with Harry Ferguson after Ferguson split with Henry Ford. While the early production used a Continental engine the later ones from 1947 on used the Standard Vanguard engine. This was similar to the TR-2 engine. See the VTR magazine this month for more elaboration. Looks like a number of Triumph bits may fit this. Same Lucas electrics but with half the voltage! (some of the time) Russ Moore _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 16:20:02 2008 From: "Tim Hutchisen" To: , , Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:22:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations Gary, While you do not mention whether it is for the street or track, in my opinion, there is only one SS exhaust to install for a street GT6. Buy a Bell exhaust. Fit and finish is excellent and the burble is fantastic! I removed the resonating Monza and installed a Bell two years ago. Tim Hutchisen Norway, ME ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Camshaft recommendations > Hello Friends, I have a customer looking for a Stainless Steel Exhaust > system for his GT 6. I figured rather than try to find it for myself I'd > ask > the > experts. > > Thanks, > > Gary _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 16:48:27 2008 From: William G Rosenbach To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:46:47 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Vintage Racing Organizations Thanks everyone for helping locate an acceptable place to play. VRG looks to be a good fit for the folks who were looking. Great resource. Bill On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Robert Lang writes: > On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, William G Rosenbach wrote: > > > Greetings all, > > A question of locating a Vintage Racing Organization. > > If my neighborhood racetracks were Lime Rock & Watkins Glen, and I > wanted > > to get into Vintage Racing, what organization would I look into? > > TIA, > > Bill > > http://www.vrgonline.org/ > > rml > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for > rent > Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! > Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: > 339-927-4489 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > > ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find Medical Transcription Training programs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nFN89T2vAqrt9aJmJUieOvvMbszBI86qA1iJoex3CWGHpFo/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 04:09:44 2008 From: danceilley@comcast.net To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:09:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Fot] GT-6 Exhaust Gary - "Spit Bits" in California carries a nice header for the GT-6. We put one on my Dad's '69 GT-6+ vintage race car years ago and it worked out great. I think they have entire systems as well. Enter them in Google, they have a good, simple website. Good luck! Dan Ceilley _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 09:04:35 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 09:01:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] GT-6 Exhaust spit bits is in Lincoln, ca.'..I have ben very pleased with them. Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:09 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] GT-6 Exhaust > Gary - "Spit Bits" in California carries a nice header for the GT-6. We > put one on my Dad's '69 GT-6+ vintage race car years ago and it worked out > great. I think they have entire systems as well. Enter them in Google, > they have a good, simple website. Good luck! > > Dan Ceilley > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 09:22:59 2008 From: "Andre Rousseau" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:22:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] GT-6 Exhaust Yep Nigel is a good guy, but not really into the racing/performance bits. A. 2008/10/30 RACER BUD > spit bits is in Lincoln, ca.'..I have ben very pleased with them. > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:09 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] GT-6 Exhaust > > > > Gary - "Spit Bits" in California carries a nice header for the GT-6. We >> put one on my Dad's '69 GT-6+ vintage race car years ago and it worked out >> great. I think they have entire systems as well. Enter them in Google, they >> have a good, simple website. Good luck! >> >> Dan Ceilley >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre@gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 09:29:36 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:26:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling We're planning to improve the baffling in our Spitfire oil pans for next year and are looking for any input you might have. (I say "pans", plural, because we hope to have more than one Spitfire next year.) Any thoughts on how baffling should be done? The oil pan we're using is currently baffled as described in the original Comp Prep Manuals. There's a divider down the center of the pan (longitudinally) which goes from the bottom of the pan (with a small space underneath - approx. 1/4") and extending up to the level of the shallow part of the pan. In the divider is a big swinging trap door allowing oil to surge from the right side of the pan over to the left (where the pickup is), but not the other way. There are some approx. 3/8th" holes (6 or 8) drilled in the trap door. For the last couple of years, we've had no luck keeping Spitfire motors alive for longer than one race. We've been losing rod and main bearings. Given that the pan is baffled and that I've got a 3-quart Accusump, I've never bothered to install a big red idiot light. Until the last race. (OK, call me a slow learner) What we found out watching the big red light (pressure switch set at 40psi) is that we're losing oil pressure very rapidly every time I turn left. Could be lots of things, including oil level set too low to start with, but we're going to install our new I-J crank scraper with directional screen windage tray, improve our pan baffling and see what happens next year. Scott B. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 09:38:19 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "'Barr, Scott'" , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 09:40:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling I've been dealing with the same problem and am planning on modifying both the pan and the oil pump pickup this winter. Same situation with OP dropping in left hand turns and under braking. The combination of hard breaking followed by a sweeping left is the worst. I've already installed the IJ scraper and screen. In addition to the oil pan baffling recommendations, does anyone have recommendations on modifying the Spitfire oil pump pickup? Thanks in advance Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barr, Scott Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:27 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling We're planning to improve the baffling in our Spitfire oil pans for next year and are looking for any input you might have. (I say "pans", plural, because we hope to have more than one Spitfire next year.) Any thoughts on how baffling should be done? The oil pan we're using is currently baffled as described in the original Comp Prep Manuals. There's a divider down the center of the pan (longitudinally) which goes from the bottom of the pan (with a small space underneath - approx. 1/4") and extending up to the level of the shallow part of the pan. In the divider is a big swinging trap door allowing oil to surge from the right side of the pan over to the left (where the pickup is), but not the other way. There are some approx. 3/8th" holes (6 or 8) drilled in the trap door. For the last couple of years, we've had no luck keeping Spitfire motors alive for longer than one race. We've been losing rod and main bearings. Given that the pan is baffled and that I've got a 3-quart Accusump, I've never bothered to install a big red idiot light. Until the last race. (OK, call me a slow learner) What we found out watching the big red light (pressure switch set at 40psi) is that we're losing oil pressure very rapidly every time I turn left. Could be lots of things, including oil level set too low to start with, but we're going to install our new I-J crank scraper with directional screen windage tray, improve our pan baffling and see what happens next year. Scott B. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 09:41:13 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: sbarr@McCarty-Law.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:40:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling Scott it's typical for that engine to want to starve out momentarily in left-hand turns, but the accusump should kick in if it does. It sounds like you have a decent baffle system. A few things to check- Is the accusump charged properly? Check valve installed properly? Oil level too low? Pickup height above sump floor? HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott To: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:26 pm Subject: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling We're planning to improve the baffling in our Spitfire oil pans for next year and are looking for any input you might have. (I say "pans", plural, because we hope to have more than one Spitfire next year.) Any thoughts on how baffling should be done? The oil pan we're using is currently baffled as described in the original Comp Prep Manuals. There's a divider down the center of the pan (longitudinally) which goes from the bottom of the pan (with a small space underneath - approx. 1/4") and extending up to the level of the shallow part of the pan. In the divider is a big swinging trap door allowing oil to surge from the right side of the pan over to the left (where the pickup is), but not the other way. There are some approx. 3/8th" holes (6 or 8) drilled in the trap door. For the last couple of years, we've had no luck keeping Spitfire motors alive for longer than one race. We've been losing rod and main bearings. Given that the pan is baffled and that I've got a 3-quart Accusump, I've never bothered to install a big red idiot light. Until the last race. (OK, call me a slow learner) What we found out watching the big red light (pressure switch set at 40psi) is that we're losing oil pressure very rapidly every time I turn left. Could be lots of things, including oil level set too low to start with, but we're going to install our new I-J crank scraper with directional screen windage tray, improve our pan baffling and see what happens next year. Scott B. Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 09:41:43 2008 From: rjl6n@cstone.net To: "Norlin Engineering" Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling > In addition to the oil pan baffling recommendations, does anyone have > recommendations on modifying the Spitfire oil pump pickup? Can you dry sump it? That should solve most of your oiling problems, I would think. John _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 09:45:24 2008 From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Norlin Engineering" , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:42:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling <> Yes, Blackhawk Farms has a combination of turns (3A through 6, for those of you who have been there), where you're braking hard while edging left for the entry to 3A, hard right at 3A, followed by a left-hand kink, then a hard left at 4 (which is taken flat, with your average Spit motor), followed by left hand sweeper. All in, it's probably 15-20 seconds of turning left almost constantly. The Accusump should be able to handle that, but it doesn't seem to be doing so. -----Original Message----- From: Norlin Engineering [mailto:norlinengineering@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:40 AM To: Barr, Scott; fot@autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling I've been dealing with the same problem and am planning on modifying both the pan and the oil pump pickup this winter. Same situation with OP dropping in left hand turns and under braking. The combination of hard breaking followed by a sweeping left is the worst. I've already installed the IJ scraper and screen. In addition to the oil pan baffling recommendations, does anyone have recommendations on modifying the Spitfire oil pump pickup? Thanks in advance Jim Norlin _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 10:22:36 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "'Barr, Scott'" , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:24:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling <> Dry sumping would certainly solve the problem, but it's not allowed in one of the classes I run. I've only got a 4-5 second pressure drop, at least at Portland. The pressure drops to the base pressure of the accusump which tells me it's working, but that the pump suction is sucking air. I've solved the problem by adding oil, but during the off season, I'd like to make some improvements. Jim _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 10:41:59 2008 From: "John W" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:41:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling This issue has been a Pain in my !%#@$@ for the last 4 years and ruined many Lower ends at Cal Speedway and watching my OP drop to 20 lbs coming out of 13 at Buttonwillow drove me crazy knowing that can't be good- Accusumps did not solve the issue, just delayed the inevitable- Joe from Chequered Flag racing has a pan he now produces which works perfect with a stock pick up- No trap doors for another failure-- check it out here http://www.chequeredflagracing.net/Custom_Parts.php Good luck! John W. Spitfire #892 DP 240z CP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:26 AM Subject: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling > We're planning to improve the baffling in our Spitfire oil pans for next > year and are looking for any input you might have. (I say "pans", > plural, because we hope to have more than one Spitfire next year.) Any > thoughts on how baffling should be done? > > The oil pan we're using is currently baffled as described in the > original Comp Prep Manuals. There's a divider down the center of the > pan (longitudinally) which goes from the bottom of the pan (with a small > space underneath - approx. 1/4") and extending up to the level of the > shallow part of the pan. In the divider is a big swinging trap door > allowing oil to surge from the right side of the pan over to the left > (where the pickup is), but not the other way. There are some approx. > 3/8th" holes (6 or 8) drilled in the trap door. > > For the last couple of years, we've had no luck keeping Spitfire motors > alive for longer than one race. We've been losing rod and main > bearings. > > Given that the pan is baffled and that I've got a 3-quart Accusump, I've > never bothered to install a big red idiot light. Until the last race. > (OK, call me a slow learner) What we found out watching the big red > light (pressure switch set at 40psi) is that we're losing oil pressure > very rapidly every time I turn left. Could be lots of things, including > oil level set too low to start with, but we're going to install our new > I-J crank scraper with directional screen windage tray, improve our pan > baffling and see what happens next year. > > Scott B. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > This message was scanned by ESVA and is believed to be clean. > Click here to report this message as spam. > http://mx.race-dogs.com/cgi-bin/learn-msg.cgi?id=8CAB474026.005A0 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 11:03:23 2008 From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Barr, Scott" Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:59:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling Spoke with Sam Halkais [TR6 SCCA speed demon] on this issueas related to TR6. One of his suggstions may relate to Spitfires. He is more concerned with volume over pressure and therefore drills out the oil galleys to 1/8th inch [I do not know what they are at stock]. I have an accusmp.I/J scraper and windage tray, and direct feeds to the oil gally at three points.. The red idiot light never came on, but number six rod bearing burned so bad the ARP bolts broke send ing the rod into the side of the engine to no good. The rod is actually twisted and one round side is now straight! These wre stock rods prepped as Kas showed in the original comp book. They are shot peened and balanced. The ROD did not break, the ARP bolts did. This hapened at 6500 RPM following a long left hand sweeper. I have a stock oil pan depth. Not sure of the if the depth of the pickup was correct. I do plan on drilling the gallies, and extending the pan depth/pickup depth and adding more oil so I do not suck air-- I am pretty sure this must have been what happened. On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Barr, Scott wrote: > We're planning to improve the baffling in our Spitfire oil pans for next > year and are looking for any input you might have. (I say "pans", > plural, because we hope to have more than one Spitfire next year.) Any > thoughts on how baffling should be done? > > The oil pan we're using is currently baffled as described in the > original Comp Prep Manuals. There's a divider down the center of the > pan (longitudinally) which goes from the bottom of the pan (with a small > space underneath - approx. 1/4") and extending up to the level of the > shallow part of the pan. In the divider is a big swinging trap door > allowing oil to surge from the right side of the pan over to the left > (where the pickup is), but not the other way. There are some approx. > 3/8th" holes (6 or 8) drilled in the trap door. > > For the last couple of years, we've had no luck keeping Spitfire motors > alive for longer than one race. We've been losing rod and main > bearings. > > Given that the pan is baffled and that I've got a 3-quart Accusump, I've > never bothered to install a big red idiot light. Until the last race. > (OK, call me a slow learner) What we found out watching the big red > light (pressure switch set at 40psi) is that we're losing oil pressure > very rapidly every time I turn left. Could be lots of things, including > oil level set too low to start with, but we're going to install our new > I-J crank scraper with directional screen windage tray, improve our pan > baffling and see what happens next year. > > Scott B. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 11:21:54 2008 From: "robert bownes" To: "Chuck Arnold" , Fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:21:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling Maybe I'm coming in the middle here, but I had a horrible time with #3 rod bearings in my 1147, even after putting in an accusump. I tried feeds to the galleries, accusump, cross drilling the crank, prepped rods, baffled oil pan, swinging oil pickup, and lord knows what else. Best I ever got was an engine that lasted 2 races. On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Spoke with Sam Halkais [TR6 SCCA speed demon] on this issueas related to > TR6. One of his suggstions may relate to Spitfires. > > He is more concerned with volume over pressure and therefore drills out the > oil galleys to 1/8th inch [I do not know what they are at stock]. > > I have an accusmp.I/J scraper and windage tray, and direct feeds to the oil > gally at three points.. The red idiot light never came on, but number six > rod bearing burned so bad the ARP bolts broke send ing the rod into the > side > of the engine to no good. The rod is actually twisted and one round side > is > now straight! These wre stock rods prepped as Kas showed in the original > comp book. They are shot peened and balanced. The ROD did not break, the > ARP bolts did. > > This hapened at 6500 RPM following a long left hand sweeper. I have a > stock > oil pan depth. Not sure of the if the depth of the pickup was correct. I > do plan on drilling the gallies, and extending the pan depth/pickup depth > and adding more oil so I do not suck air-- I am pretty sure this must have > been what happened. > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Barr, Scott > wrote: > > > We're planning to improve the baffling in our Spitfire oil pans for next > > year and are looking for any input you might have. (I say "pans", > > plural, because we hope to have more than one Spitfire next year.) Any > > thoughts on how baffling should be done? > > > > The oil pan we're using is currently baffled as described in the > > original Comp Prep Manuals. There's a divider down the center of the > > pan (longitudinally) which goes from the bottom of the pan (with a small > > space underneath - approx. 1/4") and extending up to the level of the > > shallow part of the pan. In the divider is a big swinging trap door > > allowing oil to surge from the right side of the pan over to the left > > (where the pickup is), but not the other way. There are some approx. > > 3/8th" holes (6 or 8) drilled in the trap door. > > > > For the last couple of years, we've had no luck keeping Spitfire motors > > alive for longer than one race. We've been losing rod and main > > bearings. > > > > Given that the pan is baffled and that I've got a 3-quart Accusump, I've > > never bothered to install a big red idiot light. Until the last race. > > (OK, call me a slow learner) What we found out watching the big red > > light (pressure switch set at 40psi) is that we're losing oil pressure > > very rapidly every time I turn left. Could be lots of things, including > > oil level set too low to start with, but we're going to install our new > > I-J crank scraper with directional screen windage tray, improve our pan > > baffling and see what happens next year. > > > > Scott B. > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot@autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 11:59:52 2008 From: George Harmuth To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:59:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Weber carbs I have a carb question, I was just offered a Weber side draft carb, I don't know the number off hand, for my 72 street Spitfire. I see lots of conversions to a Weber downdraft carb but very few for the sidedraft type. In theory, a sidedraft seems like a more efficient flow into the engine, no right angle turns. Is there some reason weber sidedrafts aren't that common? Am I better replacing the single Stromberg with a spare pair of SUs from my racing spit or the sidedraft Weber? Are there clearance or mounting issues with the Weber? thanks mike G. Michael Harmuth Software Engineer _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 12:15:05 2008 From: "RACER BUD" To: , "George Harmuth" Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:14:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs Weber sidedrafts are expensive, and hard to find..usually a sidedraft will use 2 carbs.If someone is Giving you one..I would not pass it up..But..the head may be wrong... Racer bud Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Harmuth" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: [Fot] Weber carbs >I have a carb question, I was just offered a Weber side draft carb, I don't > know the number off hand, for my 72 street Spitfire. I see lots of > conversions to a Weber downdraft carb but very few for the sidedraft type. > In theory, a sidedraft seems like a more efficient flow into the engine, > no > right angle turns. Is there some reason weber sidedrafts aren't that > common? Am I better replacing the single Stromberg with a spare pair of > SUs > from my racing spit or the sidedraft Weber? Are there clearance or > mounting issues with the Weber? > > thanks > mike > > G. Michael Harmuth > Software Engineer > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 12:29:14 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "RACER BUD" , , "George Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:29:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs Dealing with Webers is not a walk in the park or an instant power source. They can be wonderful, but they need to petted and pampered to get the running condition for your engine setup, then it is okay as long as you have a source of jets, venturis and other bits to change the tune when you need for weather/heat/altitude corrections . My advice is put on a pair of S.U.'s and be happy with the results as they will be good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RACER BUD" To: ; "George Harmuth" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs > Weber sidedrafts are expensive, and hard to find..usually a sidedraft will > use 2 carbs.If someone is Giving you one..I would not pass it up..But..the > head may be wrong... > Racer bud > Spitfire #21 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Harmuth" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:59 AM > Subject: [Fot] Weber carbs > > >>I have a carb question, I was just offered a Weber side draft carb, I >>don't >> know the number off hand, for my 72 street Spitfire. I see lots of >> conversions to a Weber downdraft carb but very few for the sidedraft >> type. >> In theory, a sidedraft seems like a more efficient flow into the engine, >> no >> right angle turns. Is there some reason weber sidedrafts aren't that >> common? Am I better replacing the single Stromberg with a spare pair of >> SUs >> from my racing spit or the sidedraft Weber? Are there clearance or >> mounting issues with the Weber? >> >> thanks >> mike >> >> G. Michael Harmuth >> Software Engineer >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 13:25:00 2008 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'George Harmuth'" , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:24:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs A single side draft on a Spitfire 8 port head is not a really good design. This is because the manifolds designed to go from the two DCOE ports into the 4 intake ports on the head leaves a drastic difference in the length of the inside runners and the outside ones. The result is that either the inside two cylinders run rich when the outside two are OK or the outside two run lean when the inside ports are properly tuned. Normally you will find that single Weber side draft setups are 45 DCOE. If you can find a pair of dual 40 DCOE with the proper manifold, they will deliver a much more consistent mixture across all 4 ports. There is a host of various parts that can (and usually MUST) be used to get the setup properly tuned to your engine and the altitude you will be running at. So if you are going to be traveling to various altitudes, you will have to carry a lot of optional jets to accommodate for the conditions. SUs are much easier to tune because there are not nearly as many parts that must be changed to tune them. Basically only the needles. Cheers, Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Harmuth Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:00 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Weber carbs I have a carb question, I was just offered a Weber side draft carb, I don't know the number off hand, for my 72 street Spitfire. I see lots of conversions to a Weber downdraft carb but very few for the sidedraft type. In theory, a sidedraft seems like a more efficient flow into the engine, no right angle turns. Is there some reason weber sidedrafts aren't that common? Am I better replacing the single Stromberg with a spare pair of SUs from my racing spit or the sidedraft Weber? Are there clearance or mounting issues with the Weber? thanks mike G. Michael Harmuth Software Engineer Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 15:15:28 2008 From: Joseph Siam To: Fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling Hi All here is a pan I make that will solve your problems. Thanks Joe 818 350 6222 www.chequeredflagracing.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Ebay 359.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Ebay 360.jpg] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 16:26:38 2008 From: Tony Drews To: "Barr, Scott" , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:26:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling That's what TR-4's do if the oil level's too low. When I see the (30 psi) oil light (BIG BRIGHT light) flickering on left hand corners, I know I'm a quart low. Of course, I generally don't wait until I see the light... - Tony At 11:26 AM 10/30/2008, Barr, Scott wrote: >We're planning to improve the baffling in our Spitfire oil pans for next >year and are looking for any input you might have. (I say "pans", >plural, because we hope to have more than one Spitfire next year.) Any >thoughts on how baffling should be done? > >The oil pan we're using is currently baffled as described in the >original Comp Prep Manuals. There's a divider down the center of the >pan (longitudinally) which goes from the bottom of the pan (with a small >space underneath - approx. 1/4") and extending up to the level of the >shallow part of the pan. In the divider is a big swinging trap door >allowing oil to surge from the right side of the pan over to the left >(where the pickup is), but not the other way. There are some approx. >3/8th" holes (6 or 8) drilled in the trap door. > >For the last couple of years, we've had no luck keeping Spitfire motors >alive for longer than one race. We've been losing rod and main >bearings. > >Given that the pan is baffled and that I've got a 3-quart Accusump, I've >never bothered to install a big red idiot light. Until the last race. >(OK, call me a slow learner) What we found out watching the big red >light (pressure switch set at 40psi) is that we're losing oil pressure >very rapidly every time I turn left. Could be lots of things, including >oil level set too low to start with, but we're going to install our new >I-J crank scraper with directional screen windage tray, improve our pan >baffling and see what happens next year. > >Scott B. >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Fot mailing list >Fot@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 16:30:37 2008 From: Tony Drews To: "Barr, Scott" , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:30:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling What kind of valve is in the accusump? The newer electric ones seem to be restrictive. The manual ball valve is NOT restrictive. The old-style electric valves don't seem to be restrictive. What Glen said about the check valve. Do you have large ID lines from the accusump to the motor? Look for restrictions... Mine's plumbed into the oil cooler lines (with check valve), but it's better to be plumbed directly into a main oil gallery. - Tony At 11:42 AM 10/30/2008, Barr, Scott wrote: >The Accusump should be able to handle that, but it doesn't seem to be >doing so. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 16:45:58 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Tony Drews Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:45:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire oil pan baffling The electric accusump valves are restrictive in the fill direction-- the idea is to not rob pressure from the bearings during startup to fill an empty accusump. They flow more in the out direction. But still you will lose some pressure plumbing them in the easiest way, which is through the oil cooler with a check valve. In a low pressure situation you don't need oil going to the rocker arms, or through the bypass. You need it in the plain bearings. Plumbing straight to the galley is the logical approach, and it's recommended by Accusump. You also have a lot fewer hoses and connectors, and no check valve that might stick. I don't do any oil pan baffling anymore except a windage tray and crank scraper, I let the accusump take care of those low oil delivery moments. Of course Tony Garmey's father-in-law built my new motor, so I don't know what he might have done there, but those still have the accusmp plumbed directly to the oil galley. On Oct 30, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Tony Drews wrote: > What kind of valve is in the accusump? The newer electric ones seem > to be restrictive. The manual ball valve is NOT restrictive. The > old-style electric valves don't seem to be restrictive. What Glen > said about the check valve. Do you have large ID lines from the > accusump to the motor? Look for restrictions... Mine's plumbed > into the oil cooler lines (with check valve), but it's better to be > plumbed directly into a main oil gallery. > > - Tony > > At 11:42 AM 10/30/2008, Barr, Scott wrote: >> The Accusump should be able to handle that, but it doesn't seem to be >> doing so. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 18:31:39 2008 From: Shane Ingate To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:31:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs Mike Harmuth asked: > Am I better replacing the single Stromberg with a spare pair of SUs > from my racing spit or the sidedraft Weber? Are there clearance or > mounting issues with the Weber? I presume you are asking about the Weber DCOE. In the 40mm size DCOE, there are over 100 variations resulting from differences in internal bleeds, even though they all look the same. The types are stamped on the top of the carb, usually DCOE-16 or whatever. You need to ascertain which type is appropriate for the Spit. The DCOEs are the hi-po carb from Weber, best for competition used because of the easy and absolute repeatability in tuning across multiple carbs. The downdrafts are their cooking models, used on production vehicles. Sorry, cannot answer the fit question, though I suspect that there are no problems in a Spit. Stick with the Strombergs for now. Carbs are among the last things to be experimented with in a "hot" motor. SUs a good choice, but I do not know much about them. Having said all that, I grew up with DCOEs and would not be caught dead without them. :) Shane Ingate, in the field in WY. _________________________________________________________________ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns! 20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 21:42:12 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: George Harmuth Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:41:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs First of all, sidedraft webers are as common as bellybuttons in racing applications. Usually as one throat per cylinder. Downdraft conversions are common for street cars because they are usually designed for a single carb and it's a cheaper approach. A pair of side draft webers and a manifold is a bunch of bucks. The good news with Webers is that they are almost infinitely adjustable. The bad news is that they are infinitely adjustable. If you run webers for long you will become more expert on them that just about any other part of your car, and you will have a vast collection of little brass thingies that cost way too much money for each bit. The choke size is adjustable so big is good--it lets you sleeve down (or up) to the size you need. 45 mm (45DCOE) is very common but few LBCs actually run that size, and you can generally tell which ones they are by the huge stumble coming off the idle jet. The largest venturi for a 45DCOE carb is 45mm, but in actual use most have choke venturis that take them down to 38mm or so. You can spend a lot of time working on your webers, and there's horsepower hidden in all those parts, but it's a lot easier to set up a set of SU's. But I'll take Webers any day. On Oct 30, 2008, at 11:59 AM, George Harmuth wrote: > I have a carb question, I was just offered a Weber side draft carb, > I don't > know the number off hand, for my 72 street Spitfire. I see lots of > conversions to a Weber downdraft carb but very few for the sidedraft > type. > In theory, a sidedraft seems like a more efficient flow into the > engine, no > right angle turns. Is there some reason weber sidedrafts aren't that > common? Am I better replacing the single Stromberg with a spare pair > of SUs > from my racing spit or the sidedraft Weber? Are there clearance or > mounting issues with the Weber? > > thanks > mike > > G. Michael Harmuth > Software Engineer > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 04:35:04 2008 From: "Terry Stetler" To: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 07:34:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs Been running Weber DCOEs on my TR3 since day one, almost 30 years ago. Never replaced a worn throttle shaft or had a sunk float, or had leaks from Industrial Revolution era sealing technology either. Yes, they are difficult to initially dial in, but once you are done, you are done. I check the sync (takes five minutes) at the start of every driving season and I'm done for the year. That said the single downdraught 32/36 application works wonders on a Spit or a Sprite, and if worse came to worse I'd take SUs over Strombergs any day. Terry Stetler _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 06:00:02 2008 From: George Harmuth To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:59:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs Thanks for all the info, I'll go with the SUs on the street Spit and spend the extra free time driving it. G. Michael Harmuth _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 06:07:30 2008 From: "Steven Preiss" To: "Terry Stetler" , Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:06:12 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs I just like the look of the SUs in there. And the cork gaskets that don't leak if renewed periodically, and the thumb sized jet nuts you can turn half a flat with your hand to adapt to seasonal or elevation changes. And those big aluminum dashpots with their own dipsticks! (Nobody would ever mistake those for EFI!) This, along with the rest of the package helps me keep in touch with my agrarian roots, and makes me feel very happy. STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Stetler" To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs > .... once you are done, you are > done. > >> _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 07:57:07 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: "Steven Preiss" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 07:56:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs I agree, SU's are really pretty carbs, especially when they are polished. I"m building a street TR3 and it will absolutely have SUs, though in most other respects it will be Peyote in TR3 clothing. On Oct 30, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Steven Preiss wrote: > I just like the look of the SUs in there. And the cork gaskets that > don't > leak if renewed periodically, and the thumb sized jet nuts you can > turn half > a flat with your hand to adapt to seasonal or elevation changes. And > those > big aluminum dashpots with their own dipsticks! (Nobody would ever > mistake > those for EFI!) > This, along with the rest of the package helps me keep in touch with > my > agrarian roots, and makes me feel very happy. > STeve P. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Stetler" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 10:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber carbs > > >> .... once you are done, you are >> done. >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 08:01:26 2008 From: "MadMarx" To: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:01:10 +0100 Subject: [Fot] WG: Weber carbs I use DCOE 45 on my car and they work fine, sound great. Once I replaced the roller bearings after 40 years which cost 50 cent each. They are a pain to adjust but when set up correctly they give the car wings to fly. Chris _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 09:59:15 2008 From: Steven Belfer To: FOT Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:58:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got Hepolite Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many races. The liners may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? I don't really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. ~Steve _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 10:30:05 2008 From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "'Steven Belfer'" , "'FOT'" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:31:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance Steve While I can't respond with a specific recommendation for the TR, I can speak from experience that it depends upon the type of oil you are using. Years ago I had a well worn Formula Ford. I raced it with Valvoline 20-50 conventional oil with no problems. I got talked into trying some 20-50 Amsoil synthetic to reduce friction, etc. The blow by was so great that I blew out all the oil from the dry sump tank in just a few laps. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:59 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got Hepolite Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many races. The liners may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? I don't really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. ~Steve Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 10:52:00 2008 From: Steven Belfer To: "Norlin Engineering" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:51:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance I'm running Brad Penn Racing 20w50 "Partial Synthetic" oil. Hey all, please let's not get into the ZDDP discussion again :( ~Steve On Oct 31, 2008, at 10:31 AM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > Steve > > While I can't respond with a specific recommendation for the TR, I > can speak > from experience that it depends upon the type of oil you are using. > Years > ago I had a well worn Formula Ford. I raced it with Valvoline 20-50 > conventional oil with no problems. I got talked into trying some > 20-50 > Amsoil synthetic to reduce friction, etc. The blow by was so great > that I > blew out all the oil from the dry sump tank in just a few laps. > > Jim Norlin > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:59 AM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance > > > I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got Hepolite > Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many races. The > liners > may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them > up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? I > don't > really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. > > > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 11:41:52 2008 From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Norlin Engineering" , "'Steven Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:41:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance Were it me, I would rotate the sleeves 90 degrees hone and assemble the engine. This advice is considering you cannot afford and just don't want to buy new sleeves for whatever reason. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norlin Engineering" To: "'Steven Belfer'" ; "'FOT'" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance > Steve > > While I can't respond with a specific recommendation for the TR, I can > speak > from experience that it depends upon the type of oil you are using. Years > ago I had a well worn Formula Ford. I raced it with Valvoline 20-50 > conventional oil with no problems. I got talked into trying some 20-50 > Amsoil synthetic to reduce friction, etc. The blow by was so great that I > blew out all the oil from the dry sump tank in just a few laps. > > Jim Norlin > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:59 AM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance > > > I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got Hepolite > Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many races. The > liners > may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them > up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? I don't > really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. > > > > ~Steve > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 11:42:28 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: Steven Belfer Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:42:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance Unless the pistons are rattling around and have collapsed their skirts, or there's blowby you're probably better off leaving them alone. Unless the rings are worn or have lost spring pressure by being overheated I'd even re-use those. If you refresh the head (replace, regrind, or lap the valves, check and replace any springs that have lost too much tension) and the engine passes a leakdown test then why mess with the pistons, rings and liners. The rings are already seated and functioning. With our old tech engines, I think it's often best to just ream out any ridge in the liner and run a bottle brush hone down the bore just to disturb the glaze. Check the piston skirts to ensure none of them are collapsed. Other than that, if it's working it's working. New rings won't function as well as the old ones until they properly bed, which could be never. My old (1950) Vincent Black Shadow has uncounted miles on the pistons and rings, mostly with a pretty marginal air cleaner. It got a complete teardown recently because the bottom end was noisy. But other than refurbing guides, grinding valves and replacing the bottom end bearings, pretty much everything went back in for another 58 year round. The rings were worn a little, especially near the gap, but they were sealing perfectly and had perfect tension. No sign of blowby on the piston skirts, no overheating of the rings. I could have replaced them for not much money, but chose not to. Not because of the cost (trivial, compared to the labor--tearing down a vincent is a MAJOR piece of work) but because they were working well. In my experience you have more problems getting sliding parts to bed properly than any wear issue. And while they are bedding, hot gasses are blowing down the piston wall, overheating the rings and annealing them. Not so with plain bearings and surfaces that get pounded (valve seats and valves). If I have an engine apart it gets new bearings unless the existing ones are super primo and the valves and springs get looked at--always. On Oct 31, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Steven Belfer wrote: > I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got > Hepolite Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many > races. > The liners may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them > up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? > I don't really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. > > > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 12:35:42 2008 From: fubog1@aol.com To: Billb@bnj.com, colordog.1@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:35:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance The other ring-related point that should be mentioned is the condition of the top ring groove in the piston. If it's beat up & has excessive clearance, the thing will never seal properly, especially at high revs. I've had to scrap a lot of pistons, where that was the only problem that prevented reuse. Glen (Yes I remember the "old days" when it was common automotive machine shop practice to cut the groove & fit ring spacers...) -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Steven Belfer Cc: FOT Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 2:42 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance Unless the pistons are rattling around and have collapsed their skirts, or there's blowby you're probably better off leaving them alone. Unless the rings are worn or have lost spring pressure by being overheated I'd even re-use those. If you refresh the head (replace, regrind, or lap the valves, check and replace any springs that have lost too much tension) and the engine passes a leakdown test then why mess with the pistons, rings and liners. The rings are already seated and functioning. With our old tech engines, I think it's often best to just ream out any ridge in the liner and run a bottle brush hone down the bore just to disturb the glaze. Check the piston skirts to ensure none of them are collapsed. Other than that, if it's working it's working. New rings won't function as well as the old ones until they properly bed, which could be never. My old (1950) Vincent Black Shadow has uncounted miles on the pistons and rings, mostly with a pretty marginal air cleaner. It got a complete teardown recently because the bottom end was noisy. But other than refurbing guides, grinding valves and replacing the bottom end bearings, pretty much everything went back in for another 58 year round. The rings were worn a little, especially near the gap, but they were sealing perfectly and had perfect tension. No sign of blowby on the piston skirts, no overheating of the rings. I could have replaced them for not much money, but chose not to. Not because of the cost (trivial, compared to the labor--tearing down a vincent is a MAJOR piece of work) but because they were working well. In my experience you have more problems getting sliding parts to bed properly than any wear issue. And while they are bedding, hot gasses are blowing down the piston wall, overheating the rings and annealing them. Not so with plain bearings and surfaces that get pounded (valve seats and valves). If I have an engine apart it gets new bearings unless the existing ones are super primo and the valves and springs get looked at--always. On Oct 31, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Steven Belfer wrote: > I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got > Hepolite Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many > races. > The liners may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them > up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? > I don't really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. > > > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 15:20:29 2008 From: "Peter Vucinic" To: "'Steven Belfer'" , "'FOT'" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 09:20:00 +1100 Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance Steve, What clearance do you have now? What is the recommended STD clearance for the Helpolite Piston? 3 to 4 thou? If you use this information to determine the fit, along with what Kas has suggested regarding turning the sleeves, that's a good start. At least you will be placing the piston thrust faces on a part of the liner that should be pretty good for size/fit. As long as the liners aren't scored heavily. Cheers... Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 WORKS Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Saturday, 1 November 2008 3:59 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got Hepolite Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many races. The liners may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? I don't really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. ~Steve Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot __________ NOD32 3571 (20081030) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 16:44:31 2008 From: chasgee@aol.com To: Billb@bnj.com, colordog.1@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:43:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] WAS: TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance - now Brit bike You have a Vincent Black Shadow? Very cool.? I grew up with my dad's Aeriel Square Four and various Matchless bikes.? He sold them all just about the time I could ride them. Chuck Gee ps - sorry everyone for the off topic -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Steven Belfer Cc: FOT Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:42 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance Unless the pistons are rattling around and have collapsed their skirts, or there's blowby you're probably better off leaving them alone. Unless the rings are worn or have lost spring pressure by being overheated I'd even re-use those. If you refresh the head (replace, regrind, or lap the valves, check and replace any springs that have lost too much tension) and the engine passes a leakdown test then why mess with the pistons, rings and liners. The rings are already seated and functioning. With our old tech engines, I think it's often best to just ream out any ridge in the liner and run a bottle brush hone down the bore just to disturb the glaze. Check the piston skirts to ensure none of them are collapsed. Other than that, if it's working it's working. New rings won't function as well as the old ones until they properly bed, which could be never. My old (1950) Vincent Black Shadow has uncounted miles on the pistons and rings, mostly with a pretty marginal air cleaner. It got a complete teardown recently because the bottom end was noisy. But other than refurbing guides, grinding valves and replacing the bottom end bearings, pretty much everything went back in for another 58 year round. The rings were worn a little, especially near the gap, but they were sealing perfectly and had perfect tension. No sign of blowby on the piston skirts, no overheating of the rings. I could have replaced them for not much money, but chose not to. Not because of the cost (trivial, compared to the labor--tearing down a vincent is a MAJOR piece of work) but because they were working well. In my experience you have more problems getting sliding parts to bed properly than any wear issue. And while they are bedding, hot gasses are blowing down the piston wall, overheating the rings and annealing them. Not so with plain bearings and surfaces that get pounded (valve seats and valves). If I have an engine apart it gets new bearings unless the existing ones are super primo and the valves and springs get looked at--always. On Oct 31, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Steven Belfer wrote: > I have a well used race motor in the machine shop. It's got > Hepolite Powermax cast pistons and 87mm sleves that have seen many > races. > The liners may need a bit more than a light honing to freshen them > up. What would you accept as the max allowable P to W clearance? > I don't really want to buy new liners if I don't have to. > > > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb@bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill@kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 17:01:29 2008 From: Mark J Bradakis To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:02:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] WAS: TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance - now Brit bike > Very cool.? I grew up with my dad's Aeriel Square Four and various Matchless bikes.? He sold them all just about the time I could ride them. > Smart man! mjb. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 21:29:28 2008 From: Bill Babcock To: chasgee@aol.com, Steven Belfer , FOT Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:25:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fot] WAS: TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance - now Brit bike Your Dad was a smart guy. I don't like to help anyone get into motorcycles, though I've been addicted to them since I was 15. I'm a lot more into bikes than cars. I don't collect them, but they accumulate. I've kept almost all the bikes I ever bought. I have BSA goldstars, a Matchless g80CS, a couple of BMW airheads, dirt bikes, flat trackers, motocross bikes. An old honda 150 dream--lots of weird stuff. Lots of newer stuff too. Easy to buy, hard to sell. > > On Oct 31, 2008, at 4:43 PM, chasgee@aol.com wrote: > >> You have a Vincent Black Shadow? >> >> Very cool. I grew up with my dad's Aeriel Square Four and various >> Matchless bikes. He sold them all just about the time I could ride >> them. >> >> Chuck Gee >> >> ps - sorry everyone for the off topic >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Babcock >> To: Steven Belfer >> Cc: FOT >> Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:42 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 / 4 Piston to Wall clearance _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
-------------- = Original message from "RACER BUD" <budscars@comcast.net>: ------= -------- =

Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am fo= rwarding = it to my Newsletter Group
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
<= B>From: = Rober= t Johns =
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, = 2008 7:45 = PM
Subject: Studebaker stories

All right guys, you have done it.  I am= going to = have to tell you my tale of woe.  Visualize this!  I was a= ttending = the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956.&n= bsp; = After we attended classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bun= ches) to = do some racing. 
 
After Studebaker had merged with Packard, th= ey built a = variation of the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day.&= nbsp; = What did I know of such things?   I was stuck in Europe at= the = time.  Guess what they stuck in the class with me, one of these= = monsters.  
 
Off we went, racing our little hearts = out.  Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, and se= veral = more interesting pieces of iron.  That Stude would blow my= doors = off going down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of = = curves.  Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far = enough = ahead of him that he didn't catch me again. 
  
Speaking of interesting iron.  That rac= e was = my first and only experience of running against a genuine Austi= n Healy = S (not M,  but S).  They were not many built, and the Impo= rter for = Switzerland had this one, and it ran very well,  with its cross= flow = head and lots of tricks.
 
Any ways,  that is my Studebaker story.= =  
 
Bob Johns
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: = RACER = BUD
Sent: Wednesday, October 01= , 2008 = 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC = group = question

One of my favorite cars for Style was the = (I think = 53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they w= ere = literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby= = promoting a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That = was one = of the cars that added to the racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message ----- =
Sent: Wednesday, October = 01, 2008 = 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LB= C group = question

One of my neighborhood friends = growing up = was a Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no = doubt = inherited from his dad. They would work into the night in the ca= rport on = one or another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow.= The = cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, pai= nted red = with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass pa= cks, = always seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of = way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as = 'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy far= m, the main pasture of which wa= s lined with = over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the = countryside and carefully placed side by side around the perimet= er, = providing an endless supply of parts and projects. Martin w= as a = somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of c= arpet = "chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. He also was the = first in = our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wil= d rides = down narrow curving residential streets are emblazoned in my mem= ory. One = striking characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activate= d by a = little toggle switch always placed inconspicuously under th= e dash. = Another was their propensity for burning oil, which meant that t= he = dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. = = Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or inte= ntional = daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of the = cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving tr= ue = meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"!=
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From: = EDWARD BARNARD <= /DIV> =
Cc: FOT
Sent: Thursday, October= 02, 2008 = 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-= LBC group = question

Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my questio= n about = STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this m= orning = has revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP= does = stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki ref= erence = to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact= true. = The company did tie their name to the product for a shor= t time = until Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King= Richard = no longer being a spokeperson for the company is false. = = According to the P.R. department, they have the longest = = commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
 -Ed-

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David = Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com> = wrote:
From: = David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re= : [Fot] = Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
= Cc: = "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>, = edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date: Tuesday, September = 30, = 2008, 9:52 PM

I recall when I was a kid co=
llecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.

Dave Kettler

At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann <ehusmann53@yahoo.com&g=
t; =

wrote:

>Ed:
> 
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On =
=

Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot]=
 Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September =

30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known =

company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product =

they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave =

Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Stude=
baker =

the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then ren=
amed =

STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of =

STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=
 =

say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying =

it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know =

the "true" side of the story? =

>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three gr=
eat =

guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,  and Jim McElreath, at a car =

show we had. =

>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
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