From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: To: FOT Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:39:30 +0200 Subject: RE: SLR - nope the TR4 SLR is "what i want" ""SLR" competition aluminum streamlined coupes built by Sprinzel Lawrence Racing who also built a similar car on a Triumph chassis." CJ http://www.supanet.com/cgi-bin/ecards/viewcard.pl?id=8fd8a1b7e9cd864a28ee957d4 fdbd4f9 > >Ummm, are you possibly asking about the *Morgan* SLR? From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: cj123@ofir.dk, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:26:46 EDT Subject: Re: SLR I had John Sprinzel's e-mail address. I may have it somewhere, yet. I'd like to know more about this car. Anybody else have knowledge? Joe (A) > - nope the TR4 SLR is "what i want" > > ""SLR" competition aluminum streamlined coupes built by Sprinzel Lawrence > Racing who also built a similar car on a Triumph chassis." > > CJ From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: stlnyc@msn.com, BillB@bnj.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:09:55 EDT Subject: Re: Fuel Regulator In a message dated 09/30/2003 9:23:29 PM Central Daylight Time, stlnyc@msn.com writes: > Subj:Re: Fuel Regulator > Date:09/30/2003 9:23:29 PM Central Daylight Time > From:stlnyc@msn.com > To:BillB@bnj.com, fot@autox.team.net > Sent from the Internet > > > > Bill- > > You can always keep some "Kool-ade" in your pit to offer your > informative > guests! (but ya doesn't has ta call me Johnson) > Yeah. Who was that religious cult guy (Jim Jones?). He had a good recipe for Kool-Ade. Maybe you could get it from his estate. Bill (Damdinger) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: tr3a@att.net To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:20:06 +0000 Subject: Re: SLR > Anybody else have knowledge? I have a book by McCaulfy or something like that on mantaining the TR's. It has a page dovoted to the SLR and many other specials. I'll try to dig it up, but may have some difficulty in finding a scanner right now. I'll forward the book info if it is what I recall. Jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net ('fot@autox.team.net') Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:11:01 EDT Subject: VSCDA @ MID-OHIO Amici: Seems like last night VSCDA posted their tentative schedule on their website for MID-OHIO later this month (October 17-19th). The TRIUMPHs are eligible for the Small Bore Enduro. Add that to the regular three day entry, and at least on paper, that's four and half hours of track time at a premier circuit in three days. Boarders on more than me and my car can handle any more. I'll be there...just maybe not in every session. Who else is going? Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Henry Frye To: BillDentin@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net ('fot@autox.team.net') Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:42:27 -0400 Subject: Re: VSCDA @ MID-OHIO I'm registered. Just have to get the engine breathing on 4 cylinders again! At 11:11 AM 10/01/2003 -0400, BillDentin@aol.com wrote: >Amici: > >Seems like last night VSCDA posted their tentative schedule on their website >for MID-OHIO later this month (October 17-19th). The TRIUMPHs are eligible >for the Small Bore Enduro. Add that to the regular three day entry, and at >least on paper, that's four and half hours of track time at a premier >circuit in >three days. Boarders on more than me and my car can handle any >more. I'll be >there...just maybe not in every session. Who else is going? > >Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jeff Snook" To: , Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:16:08 -0400 Subject: Re: VSCDA @ MID-OHIO I'll be at MO, although with my Alexis FFord, not a Triumph powered vehicle! Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:11 AM Subject: VSCDA @ MID-OHIO > Amici: > > Seems like last night VSCDA posted their tentative schedule on their website > for MID-OHIO later this month (October 17-19th). The TRIUMPHs are eligible > for the Small Bore Enduro. Add that to the regular three day entry, and at > least on paper, that's four and half hours of track time at a premier circuit in > three days. Boarders on more than me and my car can handle any more. I'll be > there...just maybe not in every session. Who else is going? > > Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Wiley, John C" To: , Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:40:28 -0400 Subject: RE: VSCDA @ MID-OHIO I will be there but with the Zink and Beach Formula Vees rather than the TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin@aol.com [mailto:BillDentin@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:11 AM To: 'fot@autox.team.net' Subject: VSCDA @ MID-OHIO Amici: Seems like last night VSCDA posted their tentative schedule on their website for MID-OHIO later this month (October 17-19th). The TRIUMPHs are eligible for the Small Bore Enduro. Add that to the regular three day entry, and at least on paper, that's four and half hours of track time at a premier circuit in three days. Boarders on more than me and my car can handle any more. I'll be there...just maybe not in every session. Who else is going? Bill Dentinger This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:08:25 EDT Subject: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered Pursuant to the inquiry about a TR4 SLR: There was one SLR built on a TR4. See comments below by one of the builders, John Sprinzel. He does not offer where this lone car might be. (Kas, or anyone, any recollections?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- Joe, Hope all is well with you. The best recollections I have are in my "Spritely Years" book, on pages 97-8 and 9, which outlines the SLR Project. We did build one, I think it was the second car, on a TR4 base, and this was an ex Sid Hurrel Car which our third partner, Stockbroker Neil Dangerfield owned. I raced it once at Brands Hatch, and thoroughly enjoyed my day out. The other three SLR's were on Morgan chassis, Chris owned and raced one, Gordon Spice had one, but I just cannot recall the name of the third Morgan owner. Chris works at Morgans these days, and designed the latest (rather weird looking) racer. so you can get hold of him at Morgans. This project was around the time I was team captain at the newly formed Triumph work's outfit, so I also got to race a Vitesse, in the four hour International Touring Car Race, and one of the factory Spitfire GT Le Mans cars in the Silverstone 6 hour event. Probably some of my last drives on a race track, even though I rallied on for another 7 or 8 years. All the best. Aloha John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: MJSUKEY@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:56:19 EDT Subject: Mid-Ohio Well Jason and I were going to head out to mid-ohio the weekend of the 18th and watch you folks. I called the track to purchase tickets and they told me there were no tickets being sold for this weekend, closed to the public. So, short of climbing the fences:) what's plan "B", Does anybody know if VSCDA is selling passes to us non road race types? If so, got a contact number for me? Thanks, Marty Sukey From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: BillDentin@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:43:29 EDT Subject: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered Yes! Great guy. I have an inquiry to him regarding the whereabouts or disposition of this TR4 SLR. Joe (A) > Is that the same guy who was involved with the Speedwell Sprites? Wasn't > he the Grand Marshall at VSCDA's A/H ELVF event a few years back. > > Bill From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:40:30 EDT Subject: Re: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered In a message dated 10/01/2003 8:15:38 PM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4@cs.com writes: > There was one SLR built on a TR4. See comments below by one of the > builders, > John Sprinzel. He does not offer where this lone car might be. Is that the same guy who was involved with the Speedwell Sprites? Wasn't he the Grand Marshall at VSCDA's A/H ELVF event a few years back. Bill From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: MJSUKEY@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:38:17 EDT Subject: Re: Mid-Ohio In a message dated 10/01/2003 8:01:39 PM Central Daylight Time, MJSUKEY@cs.com writes: > Well Jason and I were going to head out to mid-ohio the weekend of the 18th > > and watch you folks. I called the track to purchase tickets and they told > me > there were no tickets being sold for this weekend, closed to the public. > So, > short of climbing the fences:) what's plan "B", Does anybody know if VSCDA > is > selling passes to us non road race types? If so, got a contact number for > me? > Yes, you just need to be listed on someone's 'overcrew'. There is a charge for 'overcrew', but I'll be surprised if someone does not have room for you. Get us a list of who's coming, and we'll see who can list you. Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Editorgary@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:14:18 EDT Subject: Re: fot-digest V1 #971 In a message dated 10/2/03 6:45:35 AM, owner-fot-digest@autox.team.net writes: << So, > short of climbing the fences:) what's plan "B", Does anybody know if VSCDA > is > selling passes to us non road race types? If so, got a contact number for > me? > Yes, you just need to be listed on someone's 'overcrew'. There is a charge for 'overcrew', but I'll be surprised if someone does not have room for you. Get us a list of who's coming, and we'll see who can list you. >> Seems like VSCDA is missing a bet. Out here on the left coast, Laguna Seca has same restrictions on number of "public" weekends. When HMSA races there on club weekends, they sell an "associate" membership at the gate for $10. Cheers Gary Anderson From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: Editorgary@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:35:52 EDT Subject: Re: fot-digest V1 #971 In a message dated 10/02/2003 9:17:48 AM Central Daylight Time, Editorgary@aol.com writes: > Seems like VSCDA is missing a bet. Out here on the left coast, Laguna Seca > has same restrictions on number of "public" weekends. When HMSA races there > on > club weekends, they sell an "associate" membership at the gate for $10. > Gary: I'm pretty sure VSCDA does similar. VSCDA is a 'paragraph C' Not for Profit corporation, and as such is very sensitive to having the vast majority of its income (i.e., 85%+) come from it membership. This is critical for them to stay legal. Hence, entries to VSCDA events must come from VSCDA members. I'll have to ask Judy Cull, our clerk of the works, how she does that, but I'll be surprised if it is not similar to what you have described. My initial comments were for accommodating FOT people who want to attend. Just seems like we will have enough FOT entries that will still have some crew space available. I know we have three FOT entries in our paddock, and I know all of our crew space has not been listed yet. Bill From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Walt Hollowell To: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:24:37 -0600 Subject: TR6 timing chain covers- chrome plated I had some parts left over that were not moving on ebay so I took a stack of TR6/250 timing chain covers and had them cleaned up and chrome plated. The look very nice if you are in to that. You can see an example with pictures on ebay item 2435383662. I guarantee that these chrome plated timing chain covers will knock off 1/2 sec per lap for racers and will improve the sex life of TR6 street drivers. Walt From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:07:42 EDT Subject: Re: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered In a message dated 10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4@cs.com writes: > Subj:TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered > Date:10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time > From:N197TR4@cs.com > To:BillDentin@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net > CC:cj123@ofir.dk > Sent from the Internet > > > > Yes! Great guy. > > I have an inquiry to him regarding the whereabouts or disposition of this > TR4 > SLR. > Joe: Interestingly, Mr. Sprinzel raced one of the 'Sebring Sprites' in the 10th National Six Hours Relay Race at Silverstone in August of 1960. This race was won by the TORNADO CARS team, which was anchored by the Thunder Bolt. An article in the 750 Motor Club Newsletter the following month says something about, "...John Sprinzel was amusing the marshals at Copse by doing a full bore drift with one hand and eating an apple with the other." There is also a picture of him driving a 'Sebring Sprite Coupe', which has just thrown its right rear wheel. I am not sure what 'Copse' is, but I suspect a corner, or famous part of the circuit. In my brief meetings with him at ROAD AMERICA, he sure struck me as a 'regular guy', and very easy to get close to. No one had more fun than he did at that event. Bill Thompson knows him quite well. Bill From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:07:42 EDT Subject: Re: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered In a message dated 10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4@cs.com writes: > Subj:TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered > Date:10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time > From:N197TR4@cs.com > To:BillDentin@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net > CC:cj123@ofir.dk > Sent from the Internet > > > > Yes! Great guy. > > I have an inquiry to him regarding the whereabouts or disposition of this > TR4 > SLR. > Joe: Interestingly, Mr. Sprinzel raced one of the 'Sebring Sprites' in the 10th National Six Hours Relay Race at Silverstone in August of 1960. This race was won by the TORNADO CARS team, which was anchored by the Thunder Bolt. An article in the 750 Motor Club Newsletter the following month says something about, "...John Sprinzel was amusing the marshals at Copse by doing a full bore drift with one hand and eating an apple with the other." There is also a picture of him driving a 'Sebring Sprite Coupe', which has just thrown its right rear wheel. I am not sure what 'Copse' is, but I suspect a corner, or famous part of the circuit. In my brief meetings with him at ROAD AMERICA, he sure struck me as a 'regular guy', and very easy to get close to. No one had more fun than he did at that event. Bill Thompson knows him quite well. Bill From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'BillDentin@aol.com'" , N197TR4@cs.com, Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:30:31 -0700 Subject: RE: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered Actually, a copse is a grove of trees. Specifically a woodlot, where trees are either self-seeded (i.e. not planted) or spring from roots of trees that have been cut. In other words it's dense and random. In this case it probably is a corner or area name derived from the lovely wooded area that was bulldozed to lay the pavement. Bill-jus' yer basic walking dictionary-Babcock -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin@aol.com [mailto:BillDentin@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:08 AM To: N197TR4@cs.com; fot@autox.team.net Cc: cj123@ofir.dk Subject: Re: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered In a message dated 10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4@cs.com writes: > Subj:TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered > Date:10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time > From:N197TR4@cs.com > To:BillDentin@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net > CC:cj123@ofir.dk > Sent from the Internet > > > > Yes! Great guy. > > I have an inquiry to him regarding the whereabouts or disposition of > this > TR4 > SLR. > Joe: Interestingly, Mr. Sprinzel raced one of the 'Sebring Sprites' in the 10th National Six Hours Relay Race at Silverstone in August of 1960. This race was won by the TORNADO CARS team, which was anchored by the Thunder Bolt. An article in the 750 Motor Club Newsletter the following month says something about, "...John Sprinzel was amusing the marshals at Copse by doing a full bore drift with one hand and eating an apple with the other." There is also a picture of him driving a 'Sebring Sprite Coupe', which has just thrown its right rear wheel. I am not sure what 'Copse' is, but I suspect a corner, or famous part of the circuit. In my brief meetings with him at ROAD AMERICA, he sure struck me as a 'regular guy', and very easy to get close to. No one had more fun than he did at that event. Bill Thompson knows him quite well. Bill From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: BillB@bnj.com, N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:44:32 EDT Subject: Re: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered In a message dated 10/02/2003 1:30:56 PM Central Daylight Time, BillB@bnj.com writes: > Actually, a copse is a grove of trees. Specifically a woodlot, where trees > are either self-seeded (i.e. not planted) or spring from roots of trees > that have been cut. In other words it's dense and random. In this case it > probably is a corner or area name derived from the lovely wooded area that > was bulldozed to lay the pavement. > > Bill-jus' yer basic walking dictionary-Babcock > > Bill: Geeezzzeee....and I was going to guess they misspelled CORPSE. Bill (Damdinger) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "T.R. Scratchings" To: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:07:04 +0100 Subject: Re: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered As far as I can tell, the car still exists, and is in the UK. I set eyes on an SLR a year or so back, but can't remember whether it was TR or Morgan based ( go to back of class immediately!). A little further research will reveal the truth. I'm fairly sure I know who owns the car - please bear with me; will report after the weekend. I'm delighted to report that Keith Files, the main progenitor of the Brit Mid-Ohio visit, has been coerced back into #40 TR-6 for a TRackday at Croft circuit this Saturday - his first outing in a racer since the accident. Last time he ran there he won outright in heaving rain. Thus begins the training for VIR! Wish the man luck - he deserves it. ;>) Jon Wood ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 2:08 AM Subject: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered > Pursuant to the inquiry about a TR4 SLR: > > There was one SLR built on a TR4. See comments below by one of the builders, > John Sprinzel. He does not offer where this lone car might be. (Kas, or > anyone, any recollections?) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > ---------------- > Joe, Hope all is well with you. > > The best recollections I have are in my "Spritely Years" book, on pages 97-8 > and 9, which outlines the SLR Project. We did build one, I think it was the > second car, on a TR4 base, and this was an ex Sid Hurrel Car which our third > partner, Stockbroker Neil Dangerfield owned. I raced it once at Brands Hatch, and > thoroughly enjoyed my day out. The other three SLR's were on Morgan chassis, > Chris owned and raced one, Gordon Spice had one, but I just cannot recall the > name of the third Morgan owner. > > Chris works at Morgans these days, and designed the latest (rather weird > looking) racer. so you can get hold of him at Morgans. > > This project was around the time I was team captain at the newly formed > Triumph work's outfit, so I also got to race a Vitesse, in the four hour > International Touring Car Race, and one of the factory Spitfire GT Le Mans cars in the > Silverstone 6 hour event. Probably some of my last drives on a race track, even > though I rallied on for another 7 or 8 years. > > All the best. Aloha John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: wob@dandrade.freeserve.co.uk Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:47:36 EDT Subject: Re: TR4 SLR Inquiry & Keith Files Denmark's FoT, Christian Jensen, reports that TR4 SLR was at Goodwood in recent history! Looking forward to more information as the BUILDER does not know where it is and it would be nice to share that with him. Our thoughts are with Keith. His first time turning a wheel in anger for two years. Looking forward to seeing Keith and all at ViR! > As far as I can tell, the car still exists, and is in the UK. I set eyes on > an SLR a year or so back, but can't remember whether it was TR or Morgan > based ( go to back of class immediately!). > A little further research will reveal the truth. I'm fairly sure I know > who owns the car - please bear with me; will report after the weekend. > I'm delighted to report that Keith Files, the main progenitor of the Brit > Mid-Ohio visit, has been coerced back into #40 TR-6 for a TRackday at Croft > circuit this Saturday - his first outing in a racer since the accident. Last > time he ran there he won outright in heaving rain. Thus begins the training > for VIR! > Wish the man luck - he deserves it. > ;>) Jon Wood > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 2:08 AM > Subject: TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:59:24 -0700 Subject: Copse corner Copse is a T1 at Silverstone. I love to watch the F1 cars go through there. http://www.formula1.com/race/circuitmap/28.html The track map shows that F1 cars enter this right hand corner at 306 km in 6th gear and exit it at 226 km in 5th pulling 3.1 G's if you go the above site and put your mouse over the image icon next to the corner you will get a picture of what the corner looks like. At 02:07 PM 10/2/2003 -0400, BillDentin@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time, >N197TR4@cs.com writes: > > > > Subj:TR4 SLR Inquiry Asked and Answered > > Date:10/02/2003 8:47:33 AM Central Daylight Time > > From:N197TR4@cs.com > > To:BillDentin@aol.com, HREF="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net > > CC:cj123@ofir.dk > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > Yes! Great guy. > > > > I have an inquiry to him regarding the whereabouts or disposition of this > > TR4 > > SLR. > > > >Joe: > >Interestingly, Mr. Sprinzel raced one of the 'Sebring Sprites' in the 10th >National Six Hours Relay Race at Silverstone in August of 1960. This race >was >won by the TORNADO CARS team, which was anchored by the Thunder Bolt. An >article in the 750 Motor Club Newsletter the following month says >something about, >"...John Sprinzel was amusing the marshals at Copse by doing a full bore >drift >with one hand and eating an apple with the other." There is also a picture >of him driving a 'Sebring Sprite Coupe', which has just thrown its right rear >wheel. I am not sure what 'Copse' is, but I suspect a corner, or famous part >of the circuit. > >In my brief meetings with him at ROAD AMERICA, he sure struck me as a >'regular guy', and very easy to get close to. No one had more fun than he >did at >that event. > >Bill Thompson knows him quite well. > >Bill From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: team-thicko@autox.team.net, triumphs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:11:43 EDT Subject: Empty Trailer VA to IA Last Call I am delivering a TR3A to Washington DC area and returning from SVRA's October Event at ViR with an empty trailer. Looking for return load that provides win/win. Joe Alexander Jesup, Iowa From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:50:42 -0700 Subject: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) Did anyone happen to notice that last week's USGP has the Tobacco advertising removed from all the cars except the Renaults (Mild Seven) and McLaren (West)? While they are not generally recognized as tobacco companies in the US, I find it interesting that they were allowed to display their logos while the Marlboro, Benson and Hedges (BE ON EDGE) and Lucky Strike advertising was removed. Makes you want to say HMMMMMMM? Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:50:45 -0700 Subject: Re: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) Actually the reason is that the parent companies of Marlboro, B and H, and Lucky Strike already have brands that they advertise in motor racing here in the US while neither West nor Mild Seven do. In fact that is one of the biggest reasons that Penske moved from CART to the IRL (certainly not because of the IRL format or IRL competition. Marlboro got tired of not seeing their name at the Indy 500. Since they could only have motor racing sponsorship on one car/team that wanted to be at the BIG show. On a side note the Penske drivers (De Ferran in particular) hated moving to the oval circuits and said he always feared being killed in an Oval race. Probably a big reason why he is retiring now that he won Indy. Why stick around and be proven right. At 09:50 PM 10/3/2003 -0700, Joe Curry wrote: >Did anyone happen to notice that last week's USGP has the Tobacco >advertising removed from all the cars except the Renaults (Mild Seven) >and McLaren (West)? > >While they are not generally recognized as tobacco companies in the US, >I find it interesting that they were allowed to display their logos >while the Marlboro, Benson and Hedges (BE ON EDGE) and Lucky Strike >advertising was removed. > >Makes you want to say HMMMMMMM? > >Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "John Wilkins" To: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:18:53 -0700 Subject: Re: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) The reason they got to display their banners is that they are not sponsors in the US. So they got their 1 sponsorship in at the USGP according the the Tobacco advertising law. " Dave Despain on Speed Channel is a great knowledge" one of his callers had the same question. John Wilkins "66 Triumph Spitfire #892 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 9:50 PM Subject: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) > Did anyone happen to notice that last week's USGP has the Tobacco > advertising removed from all the cars except the Renaults (Mild Seven) > and McLaren (West)? > > While they are not generally recognized as tobacco companies in the US, > I find it interesting that they were allowed to display their logos > while the Marlboro, Benson and Hedges (BE ON EDGE) and Lucky Strike > advertising was removed. > > Makes you want to say HMMMMMMM? > > Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Brett Johnson <356drb@indy.net> To: Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 07:45:04 -0800 Subject: Re: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) on 10/4/03 12:18 AM, John Wilkins at john@race-dogs.com wrote: > Dave Despain on Speed Channel is a great > knowledge" one of his callers had the same question. For those Robin Miller fans out there, he has a local call-in show on Tuesday nights, which is not the "Robin Light" version exhibited on ESPN. He is accompanied by Dave Scoggan and Jay Baker, with occasional visits by characters from Hogan's Heros. All types of motor racing are discussed with callers and guests -- recently Mario Andretti, Nigel Roebuck and Tony Schumacher. You can listen on your computer www.espn950.com. Air time is 6 PM (5 PM if the Cubs are playing) Tuesday. Brett Johnson From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Editorgary@aol.com To: owner-fot-digest@autox.team.net, fot-digest@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 21:51:53 EDT Subject: Re: fot-digest V1 #972 In a message dated 10/3/03 10:01:58 PM, owner-fot-digest@autox.team.net writes: << While they are not generally recognized as tobacco companies in the US, I find it interesting that they were allowed to display their logos while the Marlboro, Benson and Hedges (BE ON EDGE) and Lucky Strike advertising was removed. Makes you want to say HMMMMMMM? >> Question came up in another venue -- Answer is that the limitations on tobacco advertising allow each company to choose one specific activity in which to advertise -- some mfrs chose other racing leagues rather than F1 to display their wares on the sides of cars. Cheers gary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Walt Hollowell To: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:21:13 -0600 Subject: spark plugs for TR6 I am looking for information about spark plugs for my 1976 TR6. I am in the middle of an engine rebuild. This engine has had the block decked flat and the early model head has been milled to give 10.5:1 compression. The head has been extensively ported etc. and I am running a hot cam. etc.etc.etc. For carbs I am using a pair of 2" HS8 SUs attached to a TR6 intake manifold that has been opened up and ported. I am presently using NGK BP6ES spark plugs but I am looking for a plug that reaches deeper into the compustion chamber. I like the performance and temperature of my NGK plugs but it looks like there is room for a longer plug within the combustion chamber between the oversized valves I'm using. Does anyone have any suggestions?? Thanks Walt Hollowell From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Mike Jackson To: Jeff Snook , Friends of Triumph Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:57:58 -0400 Subject: Wow, two issues in a row! Wow, my friend Jeff Snook is now in a second issue of AutoWeek in a row! Nice picture of the Lotus pal. Congrats! See you at Mid-Ohio in a couple of weeks. mike jackson From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: members@dctra.org, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:41:00 -0700 Subject: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39405&item=2435371222 Imagine the comments from unknowing goobs that saw this at a local car show that would insist to their friends that this was a really rare race car. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Dave Riddle'" , , Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:10:06 -0700 Subject: RE: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? I think the last part of the description line says it all: " IT IS IN UNCUTE FORM." :) Joe -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:41 PM To: members@dctra.org; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39405& item=2435371222 Imagine the comments from unknowing goobs that saw this at a local car show that would insist to their friends that this was a really rare race car. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Joe Curry'" , "'Dave Riddle'" Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:42:19 -0700 Subject: RE: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? Wow, just from looking at it I bet that shell weighs 500 pounds. It's all bondo. Might make a neat sandbox. Coincidentally, I'm selling my actual Ferrari--I've got two in the garage at the moment--a really wonderful sight. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2435516422 -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry [mailto:spitlist@cox.net] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 6:10 PM To: 'Dave Riddle'; members@dctra.org; fot@autox.team.net Subject: RE: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? I think the last part of the description line says it all: " IT IS IN UNCUTE FORM." :) Joe -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:41 PM To: members@dctra.org; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39405& item=2435371222 Imagine the comments from unknowing goobs that saw this at a local car show that would insist to their friends that this was a really rare race car. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:12:31 -0500 Subject: help with SCCA rules I have a general question with regard to SCCA rules. In CVAR, we use the 1972 SCCA GCR for our rules (with some waivers here and there). We are having a problem with deciding the legality of adjustable ride height shocks on 240Z's and GT6's, the kind with a threaded collar. I have been shown advertisements from Datsun suppliers listing these for sale and have been told both that they were legal and illegal by people that raced Z-cars "in the day". I have no idea who is right, but right now CVAR is dinging originality points for those using threaded collar shocks. The 1972 GCR says the following under Authorized Modifications: "Section 3 -The make and type of shock absorbers, but not their numbers, or their system of operation (i.e., lever or telescopic), or their system and points of operation." It also says under section 9 "Springs or torsion bars of any kind may be replaced by any others of unrestricted origin, but without changing the number supplied by the manufacturer and on the condition that they can be fitted without alterations to the original supports and points of attachments." It seems to me that using threaded collar shocks changes the system of operation and alters the original supports. Also whether these shocks are period correct is an issue. Can anyone tell us how we can prove this one way or the other? Like a lot of vintage groups, CVAR is trying to rein in cars back to the rules. The cars in question are all set up to run both as IT car and in vintage. Changing the shocks doesn't work for them. Thanks for any help! Bob Kramer rkramer3@austin.rr.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: "Bill Babcock" , "'Joe Curry'" , Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:28:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? Looks like something Capt'n Nemop caught and decided to throw back. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "'Joe Curry'" ; "'Dave Riddle'" ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? > Wow, just from looking at it I bet that shell weighs 500 pounds. It's all > bondo. Might make a neat sandbox. > > Coincidentally, I'm selling my actual Ferrari--I've got two in the garage > at the moment--a really wonderful sight. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2435516422 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Curry [mailto:spitlist@cox.net] > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 6:10 PM > To: 'Dave Riddle'; members@dctra.org; fot@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? > > > I think the last part of the description line says it all: > > " IT IS IN UNCUTE FORM." :) > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Dave Riddle > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:41 PM > To: members@dctra.org; fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Would this be a Ferriumph or a TRari? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39405& > item=2435371222 > > Imagine the comments from unknowing goobs that saw this at a local car > show > that would insist to their friends that this was a really rare race car. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Rocky Entriken" To: "Joe Curry" , Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:26:06 -0500 Subject: Re: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) IIRC, one of the aspects of the tobacco deal is they get one sports venue for their advertising. It is why Winston left NHRA a year ago to focus on NASCAR -- (the RJR contract with NASCAR had four more years to run, that change was a mutual agreement thing that let NASCAR seek other sponsorship earlier). Marlboro is on Penske, B&H and Lucky have other U.S. sports advertising venues, so being on an F1 car in the USA would be a second venue and not allowed under the agreement. Mild Seven and West are not sold here (or at least, not advertised here; some specialty tobacconists may carry them) and so their appearance on the Renaults and McLarens became their one allowed US sports advertising venue. As for BE ON EDGE, Eddie Jordan seems to have great fun paraphrasing his sponsor when necessary. Remember Buzzing Hornets from last year? --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) > Did anyone happen to notice that last week's USGP has the Tobacco > advertising removed from all the cars except the Renaults (Mild Seven) > and McLaren (West)? > > While they are not generally recognized as tobacco companies in the US, > I find it interesting that they were allowed to display their logos > while the Marlboro, Benson and Hedges (BE ON EDGE) and Lucky Strike > advertising was removed. > > Makes you want to say HMMMMMMM? > > Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jack W. Drews" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:40:39 -0500 Subject: ebay sales I'm offering for two go-fast parts for sale on eBay -- a slightly used camshaft and a trick steel flywheel. Take a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2435673123&category=33614&rd=1 and http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2436156033&category=33613&rd=1 uncle jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: SpiwakD@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:44:04 EDT Subject: (no subject) Tires For Sale...slightly-used only and excellent tread remaining. I am reducing my racing schedule next year and need fewer spares. One set Hoosier 5.50x15 vintage TD. Two years old in choice condition. No flat spots or sidewall damage. Tread is well above the wear bars. $200 for all four. One set of four Dunlop vintage racing tires 5.00x15. If you want to drive at Pittsburgh, this is the VSCCA tire for TR3-4. These are the soft-tread version and I find them to be as sticky as the Hoosiers in spite of their being one inch narrower. Condition same as above. $200 for set of four. Shipping UPS $32 per set phone 570-389-1222 or email. Dave Spiwak From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Douglas Mitchell To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) And Fallen Heroes from 2001. -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Rocky Entriken Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 2:26 AM To: Joe Curry; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) IIRC, one of the aspects of the tobacco deal is they get one sports venue for their advertising. It is why Winston left NHRA a year ago to focus on NASCAR -- (the RJR contract with NASCAR had four more years to run, that change was a mutual agreement thing that let NASCAR seek other sponsorship earlier). Marlboro is on Penske, B&H and Lucky have other U.S. sports advertising venues, so being on an F1 car in the USA would be a second venue and not allowed under the agreement. Mild Seven and West are not sold here (or at least, not advertised here; some specialty tobacconists may carry them) and so their appearance on the Renaults and McLarens became their one allowed US sports advertising venue. As for BE ON EDGE, Eddie Jordan seems to have great fun paraphrasing his sponsor when necessary. Remember Buzzing Hornets from last year? --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: F1 observation (not Triumph Related) > Did anyone happen to notice that last week's USGP has the Tobacco > advertising removed from all the cars except the Renaults (Mild Seven) > and McLaren (West)? > > While they are not generally recognized as tobacco companies in the US, > I find it interesting that they were allowed to display their logos > while the Marlboro, Benson and Hedges (BE ON EDGE) and Lucky Strike > advertising was removed. > > Makes you want to say HMMMMMMM? > > Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: (Recipient list suppressed) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:25:29 -0700 Subject: Not your typical race report This is not your typical race report but I did submit it for our region paper. Thought you might get a kick out of it. The Kart track that we were on is a brand new facility that a Fraternity Brother of mine just opened here in Phoenix. http://www.f1racefactory.com ---------------- On Saturday Oct. 4th the new indoor kart racing facility in Phoenix, F1 Race Factory (located on 48th Street just south of Washington in Phoenix) hosted a friendly competition between drivers from SCCA, ASRA and NASA. The first of the races was supposed to be between the directors of the three sanctions, Larry Hilton (SCCA), Ralph Evans (ASRA) and Dan Webb (NASA), however Dan was not able to attend so he sent in a ringer, Jason Boles, to drive for him. After two warm up laps to learn the track and warm the tires the three drivers took the green on the back straight three abreast with Hilton on the outside, Boles in the middle and Evans on the inside for the run to Turn 1. With a tight right hander greater than ninety-degree turn one something had to give and in the spirit of Formula One neither driver was prepared to give an inch. Larry held the outside line to take the correct late apex into the corner which squeezed Jason and Ralph with Ralph learning that walls move less than tie rods. With Ralph forced to limp back to pit in on three wheels, Jason and Larry motored away with Jason taking the win for NASA. On a side note Ralph did switch to a different kart once he got back to the pits and managed to set the fastest lap for that race as he gamely tried to make up ground despite being at least two laps down by the time he rejoined. The results of this race set the grid for the second race with pitted three drivers from each sanction to an F1 points style race. The first three spots were taken by NASA drivers followed by SCCA and ASRA. After the debacle of the T1 start from the first race it was determined that this race would begin with a single file rolling start after two warm-up laps. The race started clean and ran for fifteen laps with some significant changes in the field by the end of the race. NASA drivers Tyler Thomas and Rich Geisler took advantage of their top three starting spots, due to the win by Jason Boles in the Directors Race, to stay clear of the dog fights taking place behind them and took positions 1 and 2 at the checker. While Robert Kane from ASRA made a charge through the mid pack melee to take the third spot. David Riddle from SCCA held onto his fourth place starting spot after a tough fought bumper-fest with Kane and Jason Boles who found himself dropped back to sixth after starting in second. The finish was rounded out with Ronald Jones from ASRA taking fifth, Mario Rigoli of ASRA in seventh and Danny Foldes and Winnie Chang of SCCA shuffled back to eighth and ninth. Do I hear the call for a rematch? Maybe one at the end of the current season with region champions from each of the groups running head-to-head after a qualifying session to set a real grid. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "SHANE Ingate" To: vinttr4@geneseo.net Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:12:03 -0400 Subject: Re: ebay sales Uncle Jack wrote: >I'm offering for two go-fast parts for sale on eBay -- a slightly used >camshaft and a trick steel flywheel. The flywheel looks a lot like the Racetorations steel flywheel that I recently bought for my TR6. The short-nosed flywheel that I have weighs 9.8lbs sans ring gear, which is on par with the alloy flywheels out there. The Racetorations wheel is a a jewel, having been micro- polished and coated (except on the clutch side). It seems a shame to install it. My flywheel cost $330 plus another $150 for shipping, so your starting price is a steal! Steel flywheels offer considerable safety benefits over lightened cast-iron and better longevity than alloy, so it begs the question why are you selling it? Cheers, Shane Ingate in Maryland Shane _________________________________________________________________ High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Larry Young To: "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:17:58 -0500 Subject: Another Wayward Flywheel My car succumbed to the loose aluminum flywheel problem this past weekend at Hallet. There was no major harm done, it just sheared the bolts and slid back on the transmission input shaft. Does anyone have any tricks for removing broken grade 8 bolts? I've tried to drill them in order to use an easy out, but a standard drill bit doesn't cut it. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Larry Young From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: mporter@zianet.com To: Larry Young Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:12:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Another Wayward Flywheel Larry Young writes: > My car succumbed to the loose aluminum flywheel problem this past weekend > at Hallet. There was no major harm done, it just sheared the bolts and > slid back on the transmission input shaft. Does anyone have any tricks > for removing broken grade 8 bolts? I've tried to drill them in order to > use an easy out, but a standard drill bit doesn't cut it. Any suggestions > will be greatly appreciated. If there's enough sticking out, file the stub flat, centerpunch it, then try drilling with a TiN-coated drill bit (with this, try to maintain steady, firm pressure--too light a pressure and the coating is worn away). If that doesn't work, about all that's left is a carbide drill. Carbide will do it, but it's _very_ brittle and doesn't tolerate bumps or side loads. In the case of either drill, it's advisable, if the bolt is broken off below the surface of the hole, to find or make a drill guide. Otherwise, trying to get a reasonably straight hole into the bolt is rather difficult. Cheers. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jeff Snook" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:59:24 -0400 Subject: Mid Ohio & Snook's Dream Cars Greetings all FOTers, I would like to extend an invitation to any FOTer (and crew) who is going to the VSCDA Mid Ohio event to stop by our Museum on their way to the track. We are conviently located just off I-75, about 1 1/2 hour from Lexington. Map and directions to the Museum are on our website. Mike Jackson and Bill Dentinger will be stopping by Thursday mid-morning and we'll have a lunch spread for anyone who wants to come and "hang out" for awhile before heading to the track. Looks like registration doesn't open until 5:00 on Thursday so there's no hurry to get there any sooner. Vroom, vroom, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Charly Mitchel" To: , "Larry Young" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:26:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Another Wayward Flywheel Larry, when mine sheared off I went to Sears and purchased a set of bolt extractors that have a drill built into them. You run them in reverse and they drill and then you screw a collar into the hole and it grabs and backs it out. I broke one trying to do it, but the second try worked. I was concerned about when I tried drilling the bolts I'd actually screw them down into the tapped end of the crank, and not be able to reach them with my ease out. I was also told that a left handed drill bit (one that drills in the counter clock-wise direction) would do the same because it would be putting pressure on the bolt to unscrew it as you drilled. I was also told by a fellow who works on many types of mechanical systems that once the tapped threads have been stretched, they will never be the same for holding the bolts. Charly ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Larry Young" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: Re: Another Wayward Flywheel > Larry Young writes: > > > My car succumbed to the loose aluminum flywheel problem this past weekend > > at Hallet. There was no major harm done, it just sheared the bolts and > > slid back on the transmission input shaft. Does anyone have any tricks > > for removing broken grade 8 bolts? I've tried to drill them in order to > > use an easy out, but a standard drill bit doesn't cut it. Any suggestions > > will be greatly appreciated. > > If there's enough sticking out, file the stub flat, centerpunch it, then try > drilling with a TiN-coated drill bit (with this, try to maintain steady, > firm pressure--too light a pressure and the coating is worn away). If that > doesn't work, about all that's left is a carbide drill. Carbide will do it, > but it's _very_ brittle and doesn't tolerate bumps or side loads. > > In the case of either drill, it's advisable, if the bolt is broken off below > the surface of the hole, to find or make a drill guide. Otherwise, trying to > get a reasonably straight hole into the bolt is rather difficult. > > Cheers. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jack W. Drews" To: cartravel@pobox.com, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:24:10 -0500 Subject: flywheel bolts I know of three ways to deal with broken off hard bolts. I'll toss them into the pot. 1. There is a machine called a "tap disintegrator" that uses an electrical discharge through a consumable electrode to destroy a hard part in a hole. Usually a stationary machine, but there are a few portable ones on the market. Disintegrating a tap, or in this case a broken bolt, does not damage the threads in the part. If you can find a shop that has a portable rig, or if you want to disassemble the engine and take the crank in, this is one way. 2. I've removed broken stuff but never from the crankshaft flange. However, if I had to do it, I'd use heat. The bolt is hard as heck but the crank is not heat treated so the crank is not going to be damaged. Take a cutting torch and heat the bolt until it glows, and then let it cool. Do this separately with each bolt, allowing the whole thing to dool between bolts. The crankshaft body will absorb the heat and the bolt will cool slowly and become soft. The challenge with this situation is that if you have the aftermarket rear seal, you'll probably cook it. Therefore, I'd take a garden hose and run water over the seal area. Then the bolt is soft enough for a drill and an easy-out. By the way, wonder where they got that name? 3. Leave the darned things there and redrill the crank. Yeah, I know -- you didn't need a dumb one like that.......... uncle jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BRITPAC@aol.com To: jsnook@wcnet.org Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:41:14 EDT Subject: Re: Mid Ohio & Snook's Dream Cars If anyone is anywhere near Jeff's museum, it's well worth the visit. He's a fine host, too. At least one Great Racer lusted after his Devin enough to ask if he'd sell it! Steve Hedke From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Jack W. Drews'" , cartravel@pobox.com, Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:42:09 -0700 Subject: RE: flywheel bolts I am a past master at removing broken bolts, probably a result of my ham-fisted mechanical ways. There are many possibilities, but my favorite is a little dull cold chisel. You need one about half the width of the bolt. Tap straight down to make a minor dent, and then tap sideways to rotate the bolt. A nailset sometimes works too. It takes some practice to be good at this and to find all the right angles, but I've removed some impossible stuff like this. Another possibility is a small carbide burr instead of a drill. I use a hefty magnetic base to clamp this cheesy drill press I have that uses a portable drill. Run the drill backwards and feed the burr into the bolt. If nothing else you'll eventually wind up with a decent hole for an easy out, but more likely the heat and torque of grinding will spin the bolt out. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Randall Young'" , FOT@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:28:23 -0700 Subject: RE: flywheel bolts I've used EDM before, it works wonderfully but you need to find someone that really knows how to do it. It used to be that the best place to find the people was by talking to the maintenance foreman at a big printing plant. Their plate clamps use hardened bolts that screw into an aluminum drum and they break them often. Those kind of presses are a little on the rare side now, so that might not work. If you have a plasma torch you can zap right through the middle of a bolt if the backside of the hole is open. Practice first though. I'm a little scared of mine, though it sure made my cutting torch obsolete. If you do body work you've got to have one of these. Not very expensive either. -----Original Message----- From: Randall Young [mailto:ryoung@navcomtech.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:17 AM To: FOT@autox.team.net Subject: RE: flywheel bolts > 1. There is a machine called a "tap disintegrator" that uses an > electrical discharge through a consumable electrode to destroy a hard > part in a hole. > Usually a stationary machine, but there are a few portable ones on the > market. Disintegrating a tap, or in this case a broken bolt, does not > damage the threads in the part. If you can find a shop that has a > portable > rig, or if you want to disassemble the engine and take the crank in, this > is one way. FWIW, there are also plans running around to build one of these on your own. It's called Electrical Discharge Machining, or EDM for short, and I've seen several articles published in Home Shop Machinist. I believe you can still buy the back issues with the various articles, and they also sell reprints of one of the more detailed articles. http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/ One of the articles talked about using the unit to machine out a broken and corroded steel stud in an aluminum engine block, made it sound easy (although slow). Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Randall Young" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:16:56 -0700 Subject: RE: flywheel bolts > 1. There is a machine called a "tap disintegrator" that uses an > electrical > discharge through a consumable electrode to destroy a hard part > in a hole. > Usually a stationary machine, but there are a few portable ones on the > market. Disintegrating a tap, or in this case a broken bolt, does not > damage the threads in the part. If you can find a shop that has a > portable > rig, or if you want to disassemble the engine and take the crank in, this > is one way. FWIW, there are also plans running around to build one of these on your own. It's called Electrical Discharge Machining, or EDM for short, and I've seen several articles published in Home Shop Machinist. I believe you can still buy the back issues with the various articles, and they also sell reprints of one of the more detailed articles. http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/ One of the articles talked about using the unit to machine out a broken and corroded steel stud in an aluminum engine block, made it sound easy (although slow). Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "elliottd" To: , Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:59:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Mid Ohio & Snook's Dream Cars I agree with Steve. I visited Jeff's Dream Cars in June on the way to TRA in Auburn Indiana, then to catch up with Steve during the "Great Race" in Kokomo. It's well worth the visit. Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 1:41 PM Subject: Re: Mid Ohio & Snook's Dream Cars > If anyone is anywhere near Jeff's museum, it's well worth the visit. He's a > fine host, too. At least one Great Racer lusted after his Devin enough to ask > if he'd sell it! > > Steve Hedke From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Randall Young'" , Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:20:40 -0700 Subject: RE: flywheel bolts I wonder how an impact driver would work on a broken bolt if one uses a large Phillips bit and uses a Dremmel tool to create a crtoss hatch on the broken bolt!!! Joe (C) -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Young Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:17 AM To: FOT@autox.team.net Subject: RE: flywheel bolts > 1. There is a machine called a "tap disintegrator" that uses an > electrical > discharge through a consumable electrode to destroy a hard part > in a hole. > Usually a stationary machine, but there are a few portable ones on the > market. Disintegrating a tap, or in this case a broken bolt, does not > damage the threads in the part. If you can find a shop that has a > portable > rig, or if you want to disassemble the engine and take the crank in, this > is one way. FWIW, there are also plans running around to build one of these on your own. It's called Electrical Discharge Machining, or EDM for short, and I've seen several articles published in Home Shop Machinist. I believe you can still buy the back issues with the various articles, and they also sell reprints of one of the more detailed articles. http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/ One of the articles talked about using the unit to machine out a broken and corroded steel stud in an aluminum engine block, made it sound easy (although slow). Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Henry Frye To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 16:19:39 -0400 Subject: Re: flywheel bolts My experience on this (yup, been there, done that, fixed it in the paddock at Mid-Ohio in 2000) can be summed up like this... If you used locktite, you are in for a battle. I would probably pull the crank and mess with this on the bench for a while before giving up and letting the machine shop get them out. If you didn't use locktite, all the previously described methods sound good and will probably work the treat. The Tap Disintegrator uncle jack mentioned sounds like a cool toy! Me needs to get me one of those! What I learned from losing my flywheel is this: 1: Don't even think of using the stock locking tab washer, it is too soft and the reason I lost my flywheel. 2: Don't use any washer at all, and use locktite. I removed my flywheel for the first time this past weekend. I used locktite red, probably overkill. Will probably go with blue upon reassembly. I had my Moldex drilled for eight 7/16ths bolts, and no dowel. I use appropriate shouldered grade 8's. I ain't ever losing that flywheel again! From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Rocky Entriken" To: "Joe Curry" , Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: flywheel bolts A lot of times, the broken-off bolt in the hole is easily screwed out if only something can get a purchase on the exposed end. Assuming it is not all crudded up in the bolthole (or solid with red Loctite), there is no longer tension on the bolt to hold it. A simple dent made with a small chisel may be enough for a straight-blade screwdriver to get enough purchase to unscrew the thing. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Randall Young'" ; Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:20 PM Subject: RE: flywheel bolts > I wonder how an impact driver would work on a broken bolt if one uses a > large Phillips bit and uses a Dremmel tool to create a crtoss hatch on > the broken bolt!!! > > Joe (C) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Randall Young > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:17 AM > To: FOT@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: flywheel bolts > > > 1. There is a machine called a "tap disintegrator" that uses an > > electrical > > discharge through a consumable electrode to destroy a hard part > > in a hole. > > Usually a stationary machine, but there are a few portable ones on the > > market. Disintegrating a tap, or in this case a broken bolt, does not > > damage the threads in the part. If you can find a shop that has a > > portable > > rig, or if you want to disassemble the engine and take the crank in, > this > > is one way. > > FWIW, there are also plans running around to build one of these on your > own. > It's called Electrical Discharge Machining, or EDM for short, and I've > seen > several articles published in Home Shop Machinist. I believe you can > still > buy the back issues with the various articles, and they also sell > reprints > of one of the more detailed articles. > http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/ > > One of the articles talked about using the unit to machine out a broken > and > corroded steel stud in an aluminum engine block, made it sound easy > (although slow). > > Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bill Bartlett" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:06:24 -0400 Subject: Wheel repairs I have 4 panasport style wheels. Some magnesium and some aluminum, that need some repairs. The wheels are in fair shape but have nicks from hitting curbs etc and I want ensure that they are straight. Does anyone know of reputable refurbishers? Thanks Bill B From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: matt matthews To: "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:18:54 -0500 Subject: SCCA runoffs What happened to Sargus? Why did he not finish? From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Ted Schumacher To: matt matthews Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:09:03 -0400 Subject: Re: SCCA runoffs He lost a valve. Ted matt matthews wrote: > What happened to Sargus? Why did he not finish? -- Ted Schumacher TS Imported Automotive 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Ph. 800/543-6648 USA/Canada FAX 419/384-3272 24 hour Ph. 419/384-3022 - tech./general information Web page http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com New-Used-Rebuilt-NOS-Performance British car parts. 200 - 300 parts cars in our British-only salvage yard. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Aaron Johnson" To: "matt matthews" , Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:08:24 -0700 Subject: Re: SCCA runoffs lump failure...to what extent I don't know. Sargis has been putting out HUGE power with the 1296 since his switch to FP, but reliability has been a problem at the big show. I believe he ran trouble free at all the nationals, but this makes 2 of 3 with some sort of engine troubles, 2001 head gasket failure was the problem. But he's that good and most anyone else could be in the same car and not have the 1.3 second gap to second on the grid. Aaron Johnson #38 F-Prod Spitfire MkIV Oregon Region SCCA http://www.geocities.com/spitracer9 ----- Original Message ----- From: matt matthews To: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: SCCA runoffs What happened to Sargus? Why did he not finish? From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bd309@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 08:30:39 -0400 Subject: Re: MID OHIO I plan on coming to Mid Ohio. Still without a car. I am wrenching on a Formula-V for my brother-in-law. I need to know what time the gates will close on Friday night? If anyone knows, please let me know. I am bringing my son for the first time. Can't wait to see all the Fot members there. Bob Daggett 64 tr4 (street) 64 tr4 (racer still in dreaming stages) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "A.J.Wood" To: "friends of triumph" Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:47:33 +0100 Subject: Flywheel fasteners More tales of flywheel woes. Those of you with aluminum flywheels - buy pt. no. 200-8572 for 3/8", 200-8573 for 7/16" bolts, from ARP. These inserts are easily fitted, and will allow the bolts to pull up properly. Use on both 4 and 6 cylinder. 3/8" bolts - pt no.206-2802 (6 per set) , no washers required, thanks to inserts. Use ARP thread lube not loctite. 7/16" bolts - pt no.200-2802 3/4" heads (6 per set) ditto.(for 4-bolt 6 cyl & Spit, 4 or 8 - bolt TR 4 cyl.) 7/16" bolts - pt no. 230-7303 5/8" heads (3 per set)ditto (for 8-bolt 6 cyl & Spit) All this stuff is made in the US! We use ARP fasteners anywhere possible. Jon Wood From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:46:20 EDT Subject: Anyone Seeing Joe Alexander, If anyone out there is going to see Joe Alexander before he reaches or while he is still in Virginia, please ask him to contact me by email or telephone (Tel 858-488-4760.). Cary Perket From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: KHoward515@aol.com To: Group44TR7@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:02:40 EDT Subject: Re: Anyone Seeing Joe Alexander, In a message dated 10/9/2003 2:48:05 PM Central Daylight Time, Group44TR7@aol.com writes: If anyone out there is going to see Joe Alexander before he reaches or while he is still in Virginia, please ask him to contact me by email or telephone (Tel 858-488-4760.). Cary Perket Cary, Joe's got his cell phone with him: 319-610-1227. He has an answering service on his cell phone should he not answer right away. Hope you are able to get in touch with him. Kent Howard From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:32:21 -0700 Subject: New Improved version of "Phantom Grip" needs testing. A local (Tucson) shop has designed something along the lines of the Phantom Grip locker that exerts pressure 4 ways instead of only 2 as the Phantom Grip does. He wants someone to test it under hard competition and evaluate for him. To do this, he is asking for someone who send him a Spitfire or GT6 rear end (Only the carrier and gears section with out the rear case and stub axles). He will install the unit and return it to the owner fully assembled and ready to install in the car for testing. The only thing he wants in return is just good feedback based on actual racing or autocross conditions. If anyone is interested in testing this thing, please let me know and I'll put you in touch with him. Regards, Joe Curry From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: , "'Spitlist'" , Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:19:47 -0700 Subject: Tires Is there anyone from the Fresno Area coming to Triumphest who would be willing to stop by The Hoosier Distributor and pick up a pair of race slicks and cart them down to Riverside for me? If so, please contact me off line. Regards, Joe Curry From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jeffery Senty" To: "'Joe Curry'" , Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:16:47 -0500 Subject: RE: New Improved version of "Phantom Grip" needs testing. I would love to test it, only problem is we only have one race weekend left. He would probably like feedback before next spring. Hopefully I won't have too much to fix after potentially running 4 hours of track time at Blackhawk next weekend. Jeff Senty Gp89blue And all that stuff -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:32 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: New Improved version of "Phantom Grip" needs testing. A local (Tucson) shop has designed something along the lines of the Phantom Grip locker that exerts pressure 4 ways instead of only 2 as the Phantom Grip does. He wants someone to test it under hard competition and evaluate for him. To do this, he is asking for someone who send him a Spitfire or GT6 rear end (Only the carrier and gears section with out the rear case and stub axles). He will install the unit and return it to the owner fully assembled and ready to install in the car for testing. The only thing he wants in return is just good feedback based on actual racing or autocross conditions. If anyone is interested in testing this thing, please let me know and I'll put you in touch with him. Regards, Joe Curry From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Mark J Bradakis To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Oh. I see. Final IVR event of the season coming up this weekend, I've been loading up the van and getting Killer ready to go, since I haven't done squat to the red road racer. As I'm getting ready to load Killer on the trailer, I notice once again how the bed seems to be listing a bit. I noticed it earlier today, assumed it was due to the uneven ground where the trailer was parked. Turns out the tilt is due to a broken spring. Drat. Killer is back in the garage, the trailer unusable in its present state. No racing for me this weekend. At the moment I wish I had the luxury of being able to just blow off the weekend and stay home, but then there would be no racing for anybody. And besides I've got about 10 pounds of pork shoulder in the cooler that is going on the smoker tomorrow afternoon for the saturday might bbq. If I'm not at Wendover, the guys will send a hit squad after me! Oh well, more racing next year, I hope. I'll be back late sunday, with luck there will be no server problems. mjb. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "tstrange@new.rr.com" To: gp89@charter.net, spitlist@cox.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:03:25 -0400 Subject: RE: New Improved version of Phantom Grip needs testing. Jeff, How are you getting 4 hours???? are you running both vintage & prod? ... thats what I am hoping to do. Looking forward to seeing you. I should have an extra space under the canopy, want to join us? Tom Original Message: ----------------- From: Jeffery Senty gp89@charter.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:16:47 -0500 To: spitlist@cox.net, fot@autox.team.net Subject: RE: New Improved version of "Phantom Grip" needs testing. I would love to test it, only problem is we only have one race weekend left. He would probably like feedback before next spring. Hopefully I won't have too much to fix after potentially running 4 hours of track time at Blackhawk next weekend. Jeff Senty Gp89blue And all that stuff -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:32 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: New Improved version of "Phantom Grip" needs testing. A local (Tucson) shop has designed something along the lines of the Phantom Grip locker that exerts pressure 4 ways instead of only 2 as the Phantom Grip does. He wants someone to test it under hard competition and evaluate for him. To do this, he is asking for someone who send him a Spitfire or GT6 rear end (Only the carrier and gears section with out the rear case and stub axles). He will install the unit and return it to the owner fully assembled and ready to install in the car for testing. The only thing he wants in return is just good feedback based on actual racing or autocross conditions. If anyone is interested in testing this thing, please let me know and I'll put you in touch with him. Regards, Joe Curry -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Susan and Jack Brooks" To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:24:04 -0700 Subject: Non-race TR3 wanted Amici, I have a close friend in NY looking for a nice driver TR3/3A with OD. Does anyone have a line on a nice, clean one. He is willing to transport. He is not interested in restoring, so it needs to be mechanically and cosmetically solid. Thanks in advance, Jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Susan and Jack Brooks'" , fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:22:15 -0700 Subject: Non-race TR3 wanted From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jeffery Senty" To: , , Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:42:58 -0500 Subject: RE: New Improved version of Phantom Grip needs testing. Tom, You are correct. I checked with the powers that be and they will allow me to run vintage. I won't be able to qualify for Sunday's race so I'll be starting from the back. Glade Snodgrass is setting up by turn one on Friday,but I may still take you up on your offer.I plan on being there for tech on Friday. See ya there! Jeff Senty Gp89blue And all that stuff -----Original Message----- From: tstrange@new.rr.com [mailto:tstrange@new.rr.com] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:03 PM To: gp89@charter.net; spitlist@cox.net; fot@autox.team.net Subject: RE: New Improved version of Phantom Grip needs testing. Jeff, How are you getting 4 hours???? are you running both vintage & prod? ... thats what I am hoping to do. Looking forward to seeing you. I should have an extra space under the canopy, want to join us? Tom Original Message: ----------------- From: Jeffery Senty gp89@charter.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:16:47 -0500 To: spitlist@cox.net, fot@autox.team.net Subject: RE: New Improved version of "Phantom Grip" needs testing. I would love to test it, only problem is we only have one race weekend left. He would probably like feedback before next spring. Hopefully I won't have too much to fix after potentially running 4 hours of track time at Blackhawk next weekend. Jeff Senty Gp89blue And all that stuff -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:32 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: New Improved version of "Phantom Grip" needs testing. A local (Tucson) shop has designed something along the lines of the Phantom Grip locker that exerts pressure 4 ways instead of only 2 as the Phantom Grip does. He wants someone to test it under hard competition and evaluate for him. To do this, he is asking for someone who send him a Spitfire or GT6 rear end (Only the carrier and gears section with out the rear case and stub axles). He will install the unit and return it to the owner fully assembled and ready to install in the car for testing. The only thing he wants in return is just good feedback based on actual racing or autocross conditions. If anyone is interested in testing this thing, please let me know and I'll put you in touch with him. Regards, Joe Curry -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Greg Solow" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 23:38:30 -0700 Subject: dyno test of TR-4 We were recently doing some engine dyno testing of a 3/4 race "fast road" TR-4 engine destined for a Morgan. We had what I thought were some very interesting results. The engine is an 87 mm bore Hepolite piston engine with standard size valves, 10:1 CR, 280 degree seat to seat cam (similar to the Competition Dept "D" cam), a "pocket ported" head with a 3 angle valve job. The testing was done with both HS-6 carburetors on a long manifold (these carbs and manifold were dead stock and in perfect shape with the float bowls mounted on rubber using MG-B mounting insulators) and with a fully race prepared set of H-6 carbs on a race prepared short inlet manifold. The engine had "Tri-Y" style headers and was run both with an open exhaust and with a straight through English style muffler. The first and most important thing that we found was that the first day of testing we could not get the engine to repeat power runs accurately enough to learn anything at all until we modified a 45 DCOE Weber "soft mount" and put it in between the HS-6 carbs and the inlet manifold to insulate the carbs from engine vibration that apparently was upsetting the fuel delivery to the engine. As soon as this was done, we were able to start to get some testing results. The next surprise was when we added velocity stacks to the HS-6 carb set up. We tried the old aluminum parabolic stacks that I had seen on the Competition Department TR-4s, and also a set of stacks that I had made many years ago that look like Weber Velocity stacks. Either stacks just killed the power above 5500 rpm. I mean it just took a nose dive, whereas without any stacks the power would peak at about 5400 rpm and then stay almost level until 6,000 rpm. Unfortunately we did not have a set of "stub stacks to try. Apparently the 13.2" length of the intake and carbs is very much a "tuned length, at least on a 3/4 race engine. At least that is what I concluded. What a shame, because the Velocity stacks look so cool! We then found that with no stacks, the stock HS-6 carb setup made a higher torque peak by almost 8 ft. lbs. than the race prepared H-6 setup.Above 5,000 rpm the H-6s on the short manifold was slightly superior. The H-6 carbs did not need the "soft mounts" and the "weber like" velocity stacks worked well on them. It made very little difference whether the muffler was on or the engine had a straight open exhaust! But remember the muffler we were using is a very free flowing unit, we have used it on engines making up to 150 hp and this engine was in 120s. Our best runs made 123 hp with a very broad peak that gave over 120 hp from 5,000 to 5700 rpm and 138 ft lbs of torque with over 130 lbs. from 3300 to 4700 rpm and with the peak around 3900 rpm. All of the testing was done on 91 octane pump gas. The best power was with 34-36 degrees total advance measured on the outside of the flywheel. Regar ds, Greg Solow From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "rob noyes-smith" To: "Susan and Jack Brooks" , Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:14:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Non-race TR3 wanted I am selling my race/road TR4 as I have just bought an Xk 150 Jag. All the mechanical stuff is done from Front to rear, I am just in the last phase of putting in the reconditioned G/box and freshened engine( I blew a head gasket so new pistons,rings, big and little ends). This is a New Mexico car, I bought it of a women who had owned it for 20 some years and I have had it since 96. Raced at RMVR, SWMS,VARA,HRS. Red with black interior. Full details and photos for serious enquiries, thanks Rob. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan and Jack Brooks To: Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 11:24 PM Subject: Non-race TR3 wanted > Amici, > > I have a close friend in NY looking for a nice driver TR3/3A with OD. > Does anyone have a line on a nice, clean one. He is willing to > transport. > > He is not interested in restoring, so it needs to be mechanically and > cosmetically solid. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "darren brown" To: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:36:36 -0500 Subject: Need two Spitfires or TR-6 I am looking for two Spitfires or TR-6's with hard tops for my customer. They need to run, but do not need to run well, but I need the bodies to be in fair to good condition. Looking for them in Texas. Do not need to be street legal. please email me at danman2@airmail.net thanks Darren Brown From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:28:43 EDT Subject: 1964 TR4 W/Provenance FoT, Race car from show floor and driven well at important venues. If you know of someone who looking for a TR4, that is presently prepared to Vintage Specifications, please contact me offline. Transport of the car from the east coast could be arranged. Regards, Joe Alexander From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "" To: triumphs@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:33:17 +0000 Subject: The Greenman for sale Friends, Over the course of the past year my life has gone through some changes. Currently my wife is in hospital and very ill. There are too many demands on my time and family exchequer that I find I can no longer justify owning the Greenman, my 1962 TR4. The "Greenman" is a "bitsa" car... a 1962 TR4 with a TR4a tub. It is painted non standard Brooklands Green. The engine has been bored out .040 over stock, is balanced, has a harmonic damper with electric fan cooling and has a lightened flywheel. It has a "Babe Erson" Autox cam but is tractible enough for daily driving. The lifters bores are sleeved and lightened Ford tappets are installed. It had SU HS6 carbs adapted to AN fittings and steel flex fuel lines. It has an electric fuel pump, Fram Competition fuel filter and Rochester regularor which feeds each carb directly. The transmission It a TR4 mated to a TR6 A type overdrive and there's a Detroit Locker in the pumpkin with standard gear ratio. It has 15"x6" Panasport gold center alloys and BFG Comp TA radials. The seats are TR6 with the folding head rests There are a lot of extras that will go with the car including a custom roll bar which is diagonally braced. a spare crank shaft, engine block and bits. There's a TR6 transmission that is currently disassembled but all parts are there for a rebuild. I will also include a number of tools that were bought for the car. This is incredibly hard for me to do. I have had such a wonderful time with the car over the years. I've learned so much and met some really reamarkable people. However, as I mentioned above, I have not had the time nor the outlay to commit to the car and would see it go to a good home before it deteriorates. If you are interested please contact me here. Thank you, Greg Petrolati Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... _________________________________________________________________ Instant message during games with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: mjb@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:58:11 EDT Subject: Bud & Carol Babcock Nomination Please second Bud & Carol for addition to the FoT list. Pristine TR3A is frequently seen on the east cost and driven in the vintage spirit. Bud Babcock BBABCOCK@MANDTBANK.COM Carol Babcock TRCREWCHIEF@YAHOO.COM Bud & Carol, it is usual that the new list member, makes their own introduction(s) Welcome aboard!! Joe (A) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Barr, Scott" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:55:46 -0500 Subject: TR4s for sale? As long as we're buying and selling cars today, does anyone have or know of a decent street TR4 for sale? I have a friend who would like to replace the TR4 she sold, oh, 30 years ago. Need not be perfect (or even great), but should be the sort of car you could drive around for a couple of years before it needed anything major. Scott Barr (920) 462-0633 (direct) (920) 766-4756 (fax) sbarr@mccarty-law.com -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4@cs.com [mailto:N197TR4@cs.com] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:29 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: 1964 TR4 W/Provenance FoT, Race car from show floor and driven well at important venues. If you know of someone who looking for a TR4, that is presently prepared to Vintage Specifications, please contact me offline. Transport of the car from the east coast could be arranged. Regards, Joe Alexander From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Dean Tetterton" To: , , Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:28:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Bud & Carol Babcock Nomination I would be proud to second Bud and Carol into the FOT. I have raced with Bud on several occasions and find him and Carol both fun. He drives a real show car on the track. Nice to have another TR3A in the group. Dean Tetterton ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: ; Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:58 AM Subject: Bud & Carol Babcock Nomination > Please second Bud & Carol for addition to the FoT list. > > Pristine TR3A is frequently seen on the east cost and driven in the vintage > spirit. > > Bud Babcock BBABCOCK@MANDTBANK.COM > > Carol Babcock TRCREWCHIEF@YAHOO.COM > > Bud & Carol, it is usual that the new list member, makes their own > introduction(s) > > Welcome aboard!! > > Joe (A) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'N197TR4@cs.com'" , mjb@autox.team.net, Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:31:19 -0700 Subject: RE: Bud & Carol Babcock Nomination Well I'll certainly second anyone from the east coast named Babcock that drives a Triumph, since I'm from the east coast, named Babcock and drive a Triumph. -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4@cs.com [mailto:N197TR4@cs.com] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 6:58 AM To: mjb@autox.team.net; fot@autox.team.net Cc: BBABCOCK@MANDTBANK.COM; TRCREWCHIEF@yahoo.com Subject: Bud & Carol Babcock Nomination Please second Bud & Carol for addition to the FoT list. Pristine TR3A is frequently seen on the east cost and driven in the vintage spirit. Bud Babcock BBABCOCK@MANDTBANK.COM Carol Babcock TRCREWCHIEF@YAHOO.COM Bud & Carol, it is usual that the new list member, makes their own introduction(s) Welcome aboard!! Joe (A) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bob Kramer" To: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:24:05 -0500 Subject: Re: 1964 TR4 W/Provenance Joe, If you run across someone looking for a TR4 racecar not "from the show floor", mine is available. I need the cash from the sale to finally finish the TR4A. It will have a fresh engine (has the 4A engine in it right now) with 87MM Hepolites, nitrite hardened crank with seal kit and balancer. Stock prepped rods, race prepped H6's, HCI coated headed, TSI starter, TR6 brakes master and booster, 4 spd (can provide choice of tranny/OD for extra cash), Southwick 4.10 welded rear, Accusump and fire system. Minilite mags and good Hoosier TD's. I can sell as low as $8500 replacing the OD close ratio box that's in it right now with a 4 speed. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:28 AM Subject: 1964 TR4 W/Provenance > FoT, > > Race car from show floor and driven well at important venues. > > If you know of someone who looking for a TR4, that is presently prepared to > Vintage Specifications, please contact me offline. > > Transport of the car from the east coast could be arranged. > > Regards, > > Joe Alexander From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: Richtr@erols.com, N197TR4@cs.com, mjb@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:39:32 EDT Subject: Re: Bud & Carol Babcock Nomination In a message dated 10/13/2003 9:37:19 AM Central Daylight Time, Richtr@erols.com writes: > I would be proud to second Bud and Carol into the FOT. I have raced with > Bud > on several occasions and > find him and Carol both fun. He drives a real show car on the track. > Nice to have another TR3A in the group. > Amici: ABSOLUTELY. Bud and Carol are premier people. I'll second that. I am embarrassed to say I never realized Bud was not on the list. I would have nominated him long ago. Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "jaboruch" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:34:17 -0400 Subject: Re: dyno test of TR-4 I had a similar experience a few years ago with HS6 carbs. I could not get any power over 6000 rpm on the track. I just could not get them to flow enough fuel. I put air cleaners on to add some restriction and gained 300 rpm on the straights. I did not, however, go so far as to add the weber style spacers. Joe(B) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Solow" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: dyno test of TR-4 > We were recently doing some engine dyno testing of a 3/4 race "fast road" TR-4 > engine destined for a Morgan. We had what I thought were some very interesting > results. > The engine is an 87 mm bore Hepolite piston engine with standard size > valves, 10:1 CR, 280 degree seat to seat cam (similar to the Competition Dept > "D" cam), a "pocket ported" head with a 3 angle valve job. The testing was > done with both HS-6 carburetors on a long manifold (these carbs and manifold > were dead stock and in perfect shape with the float bowls mounted on rubber > using MG-B mounting insulators) and with a fully race prepared set of H-6 > carbs on a race prepared short inlet manifold. The engine had "Tri-Y" style > headers and was run both with an open exhaust and with a straight through > English style muffler. > The first and most important thing that we found was that the first day of > testing we could not get the engine to repeat power runs accurately enough to > learn anything at all until we modified a 45 DCOE Weber "soft mount" and put > it in between the HS-6 carbs and the inlet manifold to insulate the carbs from > engine vibration that apparently was upsetting the fuel delivery to the > engine. As soon as this was done, we were able to start to get some testing > results. > The next surprise was when we added velocity stacks to the HS-6 carb set > up. We tried the old aluminum parabolic stacks that I had seen on the > Competition Department TR-4s, and also a set of stacks that I had made many > years ago that look like Weber Velocity stacks. Either stacks just killed the > power above 5500 rpm. I mean it just took a nose dive, whereas without any > stacks the power would peak at about 5400 rpm and then stay almost level until > 6,000 rpm. Unfortunately we did not have a set of "stub stacks to try. > Apparently the 13.2" length of the intake and carbs is very much a "tuned > length, at least on a 3/4 race engine. At least that is what I concluded. What > a shame, because the Velocity stacks look so cool! > We then found that with no stacks, the stock HS-6 carb setup made a higher > torque peak by almost 8 ft. lbs. than the race prepared H-6 setup.Above 5,000 > rpm the H-6s on the short manifold was slightly superior. The H-6 carbs did > not need the "soft mounts" and the "weber like" velocity stacks worked well on > them. > It made very little difference whether the muffler was on or the engine > had a straight open exhaust! But remember the muffler we were using is a very > free flowing unit, we have used it on engines making up to 150 hp and this > engine was in 120s. > Our best runs made 123 hp with a very broad peak that gave over 120 hp > from 5,000 to 5700 rpm and 138 ft lbs of torque with over 130 lbs. from 3300 > to 4700 rpm and with the peak around 3900 rpm. > All of the testing was done on 91 octane pump gas. The best power was with > 34-36 degrees total advance measured on the outside of the flywheel. > Regar > ds, > > Greg Solow From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: jaboruch@adelphia.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:48:14 EDT Subject: Re: dyno test of TR-4 Kas recounts some dyno work on a TR250 engine and making bigger HP by just changing velocity stacks. I am getting more anxious to check the efficiency of the ones my son Sean made out aluminum billet. Unlikely, but I think it would be a hoot if they turned out to be heads above the alternatives. > I had a similar experience a few years ago with HS6 carbs. I could > not get any power over 6000 rpm on the track. I just could not get > them to flow enough fuel. I put air cleaners on to add some > restriction and gained 300 rpm on the straights. I did not, however, > go so far as to add the weber style spacers. Joe(B) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: , , Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:31:47 -0700 Subject: Re: dyno test of TR-4 My work with velocity stacks was always with FULL RACE engines. The purpose of the stack use was to help contain the fuel standoff which appears at the bottom of the rev scale (around 4000 revs) where the long overlap of the camshaft tends to reject the air/fuel charge. But we were fortunate to make very good gains in the entire rev range.My back to back tests with the GT-6 engine showed a improvement of 6-8 horsepower at 8000 rpm. In these tests, I held the velocity stack up to the carburetors with my hands as the engine was a full throttle and top revs, then removed the velocity stack and watched the torque arm fall, pushed the stacks back into position and watched the torque go back up and stabilize. We were all pretty brave standing right next to the engine at full power, but trusted the engine builder (me). Again this is with full race engines and big camshafts. I think Gregs tests were great and give added information to all that there are variables in this world of engine development and also points out the wonderful information available from dyno testing.. So Joe, adding the air filter reduces the amount of air and therefore indicates to me that there is either insufficient fuel supply (too small a needle and seat) or a lean mixture at that higher rev point (needle shape). ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:48 AM Subject: Re: dyno test of TR-4 > Kas recounts some dyno work on a TR250 engine and making bigger HP by just > changing velocity stacks. > > I am getting more anxious to check the efficiency of the ones my son Sean > made out aluminum billet. Unlikely, but I think it would be a hoot if they turned > out to be heads above the alternatives. > > > I had a similar experience a few years ago with HS6 carbs. I could > > not get any power over 6000 rpm on the track. I just could not get > > them to flow enough fuel. I put air cleaners on to add some > > restriction and gained 300 rpm on the straights. I did not, however, > > go so far as to add the weber style spacers. Joe(B) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Friends of Triumph , Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:56:46 -0700 Subject: TR 6 Silicone Valve Cover Gasket at TRIUMPHEST I will be at Triumphest this coming Friday and Saturday to show the new silicone valve cover gasket. They will become available for sale following the event as they trickle out. (I am working from one prototype mold for now.) I will be updating my website in the coming week with photos and details of the gasket, but I wanted to hold off on that, so that Triumphest would truly be its debut. It will be the first time that it is seen by the Triumph public. Once again, thank you all for your patience and support in getting this product together. Sincerely, Justin Wagner J. M. Wagner Sales, Ltd. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Larry Young To: "fot@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:03:02 -0500 Subject: Throughout Bearings During my last race weekend, I fried the clutch throwout bearing in my TR3. I've heard the ones from the dealers don't last. Is there a consensus on the best throwout bearing to use in TRs? Larry Young From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "jaboruch" To: Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:16:29 -0400 Subject: Re: dyno test of TR-4 I had RC needles, with jets turned down as much as they would not fall off. I even tried drilling the jets 4/1000 oversize, but I could not make the HS6's work. I also tried various float needles, larger hoses to connect the jet to the bowl, etc. Others have had similar problems getting the HS6's to work. I finally gave up and since my race group allows Webers, I bought and installed a set. They have been great! Joe(B) ----- Original Message ----- From: "kas kastner" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: dyno test of TR-4 >> > So Joe, adding the air filter reduces the amount of air and therefore > indicates to me that there is either insufficient fuel supply (too small a > needle and seat) or a lean mixture at that higher rev point (needle shape). > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:48 AM > Subject: Re: dyno test of TR-4 > > > > Kas recounts some dyno work on a TR250 engine and making bigger HP by just > > changing velocity stacks. > > > > I am getting more anxious to check the efficiency of the ones my son Sean > > made out aluminum billet. Unlikely, but I think it would be a hoot if they > turned > > out to be heads above the alternatives. > > > > > I had a similar experience a few years ago with HS6 carbs. I could > > > not get any power over 6000 rpm on the track. I just could not get > > > them to flow enough fuel. I put air cleaners on to add some > > > restriction and gained 300 rpm on the straights. I did not, however, > > > go so far as to add the weber style spacers. Joe(B) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Aaron Johnson" To: "Larry Young" , Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:25:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Throughout Bearings I found a decent bearing for my TR6 by taking the old one down to the local industrial supply place. They found a Federal mogul ground surface bearing that was an exact replacement that I never had problems with. I don't remember the number. Aaron Johnson #38 F-Prod Spit MkIV Oregon Region SCCA http://www.geocities.com/spitracer9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Young To: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:03 PM Subject: Throughout Bearings During my last race weekend, I fried the clutch throwout bearing in my TR3. I've heard the ones from the dealers don't last. Is there a consensus on the best throwout bearing to use in TRs? Larry Young From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Greg Solow" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:56:55 -0700 Subject: velocity stacks and stand-off While we were dynoing this 3/4 race engine (280 degree duration cam) installing the velocity stacks in every case made the fuel "stand-off" disappear. Without the velocity stacks there was a cloud of fuel in front of the carb inlets that you could feel the wetness on your hand up to over 1 ft away. The fuel seemed to be in constant motion into and out of the carb throat. the fuel did not seem to "blow away" into the dyno room. When the velocity stacks were installed, the cloud was no longer there, and the engine made slightly more power from the point where it came on the cam, ie. about 3200 rpm up to around 4500 rpm. Above that rpm the power was always less with the stacks than without them. d As I mentioned before, we did not have any "stub stacks" as recommended by David Vizard as being a benifit on Minis and MG engines. So they are a questionmark as far as this engine is concerned. It is interesting and puzzliing when emperical results do not agree with what should the theoretical results. Everthing I have ever read says that the stacks should make things better everywhere, not worse. The square corner of the carb inlet should act to in effect reduce the size of the inlet and reduce the air flow. Maybe the power level of this engine does not require any more air and so that is why it did not help. On Weber carburated engine, every time we have gone up in venturi size, the power has gone up. But again this was on a full race engine making well over 170 hp on this same dyno. By the way even on this engine, with either set of carbs, the air valves were up all the way they could go by 4500 rpm. So from this point on the actual taper of the mixture needle is no longer having any effect on the fuel metering. as only the exact point of the needle where it enters the jet is controlling the mixture and that is no longer changing as the revs change. Of course the size of the needle at this point is important and is controling the amount of fuel flow into the engine. Regards, Greg Solow From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: "Greg Solow" , Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:37:22 -0700 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off That's pretty interesting. I might make note that the higher revs the higher the air velocity the higher the velocity the lower the pressure, therefore the flow of fuel will be HIGHER even though the needle has not risen any higher in its taper. Funny stuff huh!!!. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Solow" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:56 PM Subject: velocity stacks and stand-off > While we were dynoing this 3/4 race engine (280 degree duration cam) > installing the velocity stacks in every case made the fuel "stand-off" > disappear. Without the velocity stacks there was a cloud of fuel in front of > the carb inlets that you could feel the wetness on your hand up to over 1 ft > away. The fuel seemed to be in constant motion into and out of the carb > throat. the fuel did not seem to "blow away" into the dyno room. When the > velocity stacks were installed, the cloud was no longer there, and the engine > made slightly more power from the point where it came on the cam, ie. about > 3200 rpm up to around 4500 rpm. Above that rpm the power was always less with > the stacks than without them. d > As I mentioned before, we did not have any "stub stacks" as recommended by > David Vizard as being a benifit on Minis and MG engines. So they are a > questionmark as far as this engine is concerned. It is interesting and > puzzliing when emperical results do not agree with what should the theoretical > results. Everthing I have ever read says that the stacks should make things > better everywhere, not worse. The square corner of the carb inlet should act > to in effect reduce the size of the inlet and reduce the air flow. Maybe the > power level of this engine does not require any more air and so that is why it > did not help. > On Weber carburated engine, every time we have gone up in venturi size, > the power has gone up. But again this was on a full race engine making well > over 170 hp on this same dyno. > By the way even on this engine, with either set of carbs, the air valves > were up all the way they could go by 4500 rpm. So from this point on the > actual taper of the mixture needle is no longer having any effect on the fuel > metering. as only the exact point of the needle where it enters the jet is > controlling the mixture and that is no longer changing as the revs change. Of > course the size of the needle at this point is important and is controling the > amount of fuel flow into the engine. > Regards, Greg Solow From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Randall Young" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:40:14 -0700 Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off > That's pretty interesting. I might make note that the higher revs the > higher the air velocity the higher the velocity the lower the pressure, > therefore the flow of fuel will be HIGHER even though the needle has not > risen any higher in its taper. Funny stuff huh!!!. IOW, when the piston hits the top of it's travel, you suddenly have a fixed venturi with a fixed jet ... just like a real carb Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "tstrange@new.rr.com" To: gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 05:06:50 -0400 Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off Greg, Just wondering; what was the shape of the outside lip on the stacks you used. They should be rounded back toward the outside of the stack (fully radiused). If these happened to be of the variety with a sharp outside edge, this could be one source of trouble. If you check the airflow into various stacks, I believe you will find quite different characteristics between the sharp edged ones and the ones with a fully radiused outer end. I dont have the explanation, but they result in very different air-flow patterns. Tom Strange #4 White Original Message: ----------------- From: Greg Solow gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:56:55 -0700 To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: velocity stacks and stand-off While we were dynoing this 3/4 race engine (280 degree duration cam) installing the velocity stacks in every case made the fuel "stand-off" disappear. Without the velocity stacks there was a cloud of fuel in front of the carb inlets that you could feel the wetness on your hand up to over 1 ft away. The fuel seemed to be in constant motion into and out of the carb throat. the fuel did not seem to "blow away" into the dyno room. When the velocity stacks were installed, the cloud was no longer there, and the engine made slightly more power from the point where it came on the cam, ie. about 3200 rpm up to around 4500 rpm. Above that rpm the power was always less with the stacks than without them. d As I mentioned before, we did not have any "stub stacks" as recommended by David Vizard as being a benifit on Minis and MG engines. So they are a questionmark as far as this engine is concerned. It is interesting and puzzliing when emperical results do not agree with what should the theoretical results. Everthing I have ever read says that the stacks should make things better everywhere, not worse. The square corner of the carb inlet should act to in effect reduce the size of the inlet and reduce the air flow. Maybe the power level of this engine does not require any more air and so that is why it did not help. On Weber carburated engine, every time we have gone up in venturi size, the power has gone up. But again this was on a full race engine making well over 170 hp on this same dyno. By the way even on this engine, with either set of carbs, the air valves were up all the way they could go by 4500 rpm. So from this point on the actual taper of the mixture needle is no longer having any effect on the fuel metering. as only the exact point of the needle where it enters the jet is controlling the mixture and that is no longer changing as the revs change. Of course the size of the needle at this point is important and is controling the amount of fuel flow into the engine. Regards, Greg Solow -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Triumph List , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:59:40 -0700 Subject: Perfect Tool for installing/removing Fuel Pump TR 3, 4... I recently had to replace my fuel pump and I was back to fumbling around with finding just the right set up of tools to get at the nuts. I had a basic set up and plan of attack that I had developed since I was a teen with my first TR 4A... but I ran across this socket at Sears on the day of the installation and I suspected it might do the trick. I have to say, I don't think it gets any better. It accesses both the nuts on the fuel pump without any obstruction around the socket and the throw of the wrench, at that length, is clear enough to make it all a speedy process. I had to share this one. --Justin Wagner See the set-up here: http://www.jmwagnersales.com/fpit.html From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Greg Solow" To: "Randall Young" , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:11:49 -0700 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off But with no method of preventing over enrichment like the air corrector jet on a Weber! Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall Young" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:40 PM Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off > > That's pretty interesting. I might make note that the higher revs the > > higher the air velocity the higher the velocity the lower the pressure, > > therefore the flow of fuel will be HIGHER even though the needle has not > > risen any higher in its taper. Funny stuff huh!!!. > > IOW, when the piston hits the top of it's travel, you suddenly have a fixed > venturi with a fixed jet ... just like a real carb > > Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Greg Solow" To: , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:29:49 -0700 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off The "parabolic" velocity stacks have an extremely large radius bell that flares out a full 90 degrees but does not roll back on iteself. The outside diameter where the edge of the bell ends is 3 5/8" whereas the throat of the carb is only 1 5/8" in diameter, so I don't think that the fact that they don't roll back on themselves is hurting the power or airflow. Since Kas set up TR-4 engines that made over 160 hp with 1 3/4 SU carbs on them, I suspect that at the 125 hp level, the air flow requirements of the rest of the engine are such that they are not close the limit of the carb size. If that is the case, it would make sense that increasing the air flow potential of the carbs would have no effect on the power output of the engine. Other factors like "tuned length " of the inlet tract might have a greater effect on power than air flow potential of the carbs. We also did some back to back testing of high lift rockers vs. standard lift rockers and found that even with an almost stock head, the engine really liked more lift. Going from total lift at the valve of .375" to .415" was worth about 5 hp from 4500rpm on up to 6,000 rpm, which was the maximum at which we ran this engine. Consequently, we are now working on a new cam grind which will still have seat to seat duration of 280 degrees, (which idles well at 800 rpm with SU carbs) but will have faster lift rates and more total lift while still being relatively gentle on the valve train so it will not require hemongus spring pressures like a real "race" cam does. Regards, Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:06 AM Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off Greg, Just wondering; what was the shape of the outside lip on the stacks you used. They should be rounded back toward the outside of the stack (fully radiused). If these happened to be of the variety with a sharp outside edge, this could be one source of trouble. If you check the airflow into various stacks, I believe you will find quite different characteristics between the sharp edged ones and the ones with a fully radiused outer end. I dont have the explanation, but they result in very different air-flow patterns. Tom Strange #4 White Original Message: ----------------- From: Greg Solow gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:56:55 -0700 To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: velocity stacks and stand-off While we were dynoing this 3/4 race engine (280 degree duration cam) installing the velocity stacks in every case made the fuel "stand-off" disappear. Without the velocity stacks there was a cloud of fuel in front of the carb inlets that you could feel the wetness on your hand up to over 1 ft away. The fuel seemed to be in constant motion into and out of the carb throat. the fuel did not seem to "blow away" into the dyno room. When the velocity stacks were installed, the cloud was no longer there, and the engine made slightly more power from the point where it came on the cam, ie. about 3200 rpm up to around 4500 rpm. Above that rpm the power was always less with the stacks than without them. d As I mentioned before, we did not have any "stub stacks" as recommended by David Vizard as being a benifit on Minis and MG engines. So they are a questionmark as far as this engine is concerned. It is interesting and puzzliing when emperical results do not agree with what should the theoretical results. Everthing I have ever read says that the stacks should make things better everywhere, not worse. The square corner of the carb inlet should act to in effect reduce the size of the inlet and reduce the air flow. Maybe the power level of this engine does not require any more air and so that is why it did not help. On Weber carburated engine, every time we have gone up in venturi size, the power has gone up. But again this was on a full race engine making well over 170 hp on this same dyno. By the way even on this engine, with either set of carbs, the air valves were up all the way they could go by 4500 rpm. So from this point on the actual taper of the mixture needle is no longer having any effect on the fuel metering. as only the exact point of the needle where it enters the jet is controlling the mixture and that is no longer changing as the revs change. Of course the size of the needle at this point is important and is controling the amount of fuel flow into the engine. Regards, Greg Solow -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Kahler" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:18:09 -0600 Subject: FWD: Drivers suit forsale on ebay. Amici, I'm forwarding this to the list on behalf of Bob Kamholtz. Brad ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Bob Kamholtz" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:39:46 -0500 Brad: I have my racing drivers suit listed on ebay. If you could put it on the car list that you put the Jamaican. I got about 6 emails, no takers thou. I also have a pair of NOS tail lite housing listed. The reserve is $400.00. Not cheap, but where you going to find a set amy more. Thanks Bob From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Walt Hollowell To: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:01:42 -0600 Subject: Parts on ebay I have a 1296 Spitfire crankshaft listed on ebay for sale item # 2437573380. This crank has been turned and includes rod and main bearings. Thanks Walt From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Kahler" To: "Barr, Scott" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:08:24 -0600 Subject: RE: Drivers suit forsale on ebay. Scott, I didn't realize he didn't include the item number. The sellers id is ECOD. Sorry about that.... Brad ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Barr, Scott" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:53:45 -0500 >No idea what the item number is, huh? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brad Kahler [mailto:brad.kahler@141.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:18 AM >To: fot@autox.team.net >Subject: FWD: Drivers suit forsale on ebay. > > >Amici, > >I'm forwarding this to the list on behalf of Bob Kamholtz. > >Brad > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "Bob Kamholtz" >Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:39:46 -0500 > >Brad: >I have my racing drivers suit listed on ebay. If you could put it on the car list that you put the Jamaican. >I got about 6 emails, no takers thou. >I also have a pair of NOS tail lite housing listed. The reserve is $400.00. >Not cheap, but where you going to find a set amy more. >Thanks Bob From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: triumphs@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:07:46 EDT Subject: Empty Trailer from Iowa to California Going out to West Coast to pick up vintage race car and return to Midwest. Have empty (open) trailer from Iowa to San Francisco and could travel southern route. TR3-4-6 car, body, chassis, or smaller. Travel window is 5 -1o November. If it is an easy pick up and delivery your cost will reflect that. The Jack & Joe Road Show From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:46:41 -0700 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off The early velocity stacks that I did had a sharp edge and no roll back of the outer edge. They did not make the big difference that we achieved later with a rolled over edge. In tests we found the inlet air was coming from the back of the carburetors. I'll explain our tests another time if interest is demonstrated. It's no big deal. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: kaskas@cox.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:37:33 EDT Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off Kas, You've got to know by now that interest is demonstrated any time you speak. Please, explain away... Steve << I'll explain our tests another time if interest is demonstrated. It's no big deal. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Eells" To: "Friends Of Triumph" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:40:42 -0700 Subject: Velocity Stacks (air horns)... I recall a post a while back suggesting the below link was the ultimate velocity stack/air horn to use... http://www.twminduction.com/AirHorn/AirHorn-FR.html Anyone had experience with them?? Brad From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:24:49 -0700 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off I added the FOT folks into this as some might be interested in this stuff. I made a cam unit for the back of the distributor. I milled it out of a block of aluminum and made a cam that was 2" in diameter from a big .250" thick mild steel washer. After I shaped the cam I just heated it up red and dropped it into a can of oil. The thing I had found was the small lucas cam was fine for a Can -Am car but I needed a lot of middle range tractability and their cam was too small to get the amount of variation. It was kind of neat too. I made a top loading shim pack for the enrichment device from the ends of a set of feeler gauges. So I had this pack of shims in a little box and a special one to act as the cold start device and you could add or subtract shims with the engine running so it was great for race track tuning as it was very very accurate.. Never made a drawing, just a sketch with dimensions .Just cut and fit while the engine was in the dyno. Obviously the part was based on the Lucas cam casting but this was infinitely better and of course larger to accommodate the larger cam . I used a generator bearing in the cam pivot center instead of the stupid Lucas oilite bronze which wore both on the inside and the outside and changed the mixture all over the place. Also the top and bottom bushings were not always friends so this bearing fixed the lot. I did a long test on velocity stacks on the TR-6 with injector placing. I mounted rubber hose onto the manifold inlets and the hose was slit in several place so that I could quickly move the injector. I just jammed the injector through the slit and they wobbled around a little but, so what, this was a dyno test. Worked too. I found the further out I got the injector the better the power all through the range. So when I finally got the injector out as far it could go in the coachwork I made a little steel bullet that I mounted laterally into the center of the velocity stack and inserted the guts from the Lucas injector and feed the fuel in from the side. The little bar that held the bullet also was the fuel feed to the injector. It was amazingly easy to do. This put the injector shooting the fuel straight down the center of the inlet tract instead of onto the walls the inlet parts. Can't really say it made a big power difference but it allowed a leaner mixture and looked very very cool and mysterious to my competitors. I showed this to the Lucas racing people and they immediately sent out a bulletin with a drawing. Lovely that was, like hell. I made this all legal to the rules as we were allowed any injector, and velocity stack and any fuel line. The SCCA didn't like it, but it met the rule. The fun part was still on the dyno I pointed injector straight OUT of the stacks and it still made more power than when mounted in the manifold as stock. I was in the throws of making a set of stacks that would turn and go over the top of the valve cover so that I could get the length that was indicated by the dyno tests with the hoses. Never finished them though, got too interested in something else I guess. Before I did all this stuff I had long rubber hoses holding the velocity stack and then I mounted Weber venturis in the hose. This made the power range better by picking up the air speed which compensated for the impossible original injection distributor unit. (this was when I still had the original vacuum unit but operating manually.) In the dyno these hoses were so long I had to suspend them from the top of the cell with wire, that's when I started working on the "over the engine top" units..I keep myself busy on these long airplane rides dreaming up stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "T.R. Scratchings" To: "kas kastner" Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:32 PM Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off > Interesting- > We bored out a set of Lucas manifolds a few years back to 48mm, then fitted > Dell'orto butterflies with the TWM full radius stacks Siamesed together on > 1-2 /3-4 /5-6 and found 15 bhp straight away. Well, it wasn't quite that > easy - blending the overbore into the manifold took an age, then we had to > shim the thin butterflies into the spindles & add an overhead linkage > adapted from a 2.5 PI setup, but it was amusing and all done for charity... > I still hope to bring a 6-pot to VIR with this kit on -what did you do > with Lucas PI in its time? - all we ever see is blurred thumbnails of mighty > long inlet tracts and upstream injectors, but never a view of the metering > unit! I've been looking for ages for the cam actuated rear end for a 6-cyl > unit, but still no luck! > Hope you are well, and look forward to reading the book when it reaches > these shores... > All the best > Jon Wood From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Wes Dayton To: Friends of Triumph Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:58 +1000 Subject: Tires (Again) It's been a little while since we've discussed tires. My now-bald A008Rs mean I have to do something. The Australian rules are pretty restrictive and for TR3As it boils down to a minimum 60-profile and 185/15 size. We were running on 195/15 A008Rs which were technically not allowed but because of the lack of choice were sort of "allowed". Tires currently available that are even worth looking into seem to be: 1) Hoosier Vintage TDs 500/15. And these cost $A350 each. At the current conversion rate that makes them about $US240. 2) Kuhmo Ecsta V711 (185/15 size is a 65% profile). However, they will not import them to Australia (insufficient volume). Nonetheless, if anyone has experience with these I'd be interested - maybe if we kick up enough fuss we could get some. I know there has been talk about an Yokohama A032R-replacement with more size options, but that seems to have dried up. Given all that, a couple of questions: 1) What do you pay for a 500/15 Vintage TD? 2) Any other ideas? Wes Dayton - TR3A From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BFEKENG@aol.com To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:42:54 EDT Subject: 87MM racing liners I hate to bomb the list, but for all those who called looking for 87MM Heavy duty liners, I just got a shipment of 38ea Ken From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: greg To: fot Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:16:05 -0700 Subject: Kas's injection I can vouch for the injection pieces Kas made. I have a set or the? set in my garage which I purchased from Denny Wilson in the mid '80s. The metering unit is a very clever little modification that made the fuel setting very repeatable. The fuel cam looks like it was heated and now I know why. The feeler gauge shim pack is intact with a little cardboard storage box for the individual shims. It also came with a cool Moon air density gauge. The velocity stacks still have the hoses attached. This also came with red rubber balls to plug the stacks just like an old Hilborn drag setup. The dual Lucas injection pumps were mounted on a piece of aluminum angle with the fuel filter. Eventually this will be on a TR250 replica of the #12 car. Greg From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "MARK J WEATHERS" To: "kas kastner" , Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:44:15 -0700 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off I would be interested in teh details. Mark 72 TR6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "kas kastner" To: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:46 AM Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off > The early velocity stacks that I did had a sharp edge and no roll back of > the outer edge. They did not make the big difference that we achieved later > with a rolled over edge. In tests we found the inlet air was coming from the > back of the carburetors. I'll explain our tests another time if interest is > demonstrated. It's no big deal. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: "greg" , "fot" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:21:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Kas's injection Aamzing that all that stuff is still alive. The filter by the way is a water trap, water is the bain of that fuel injection system. One drop will stop the unit from working. ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: "fot" Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:16 PM Subject: Kas's injection > I can vouch for the injection pieces Kas made. I have a set or the? > set in my garage which I purchased from Denny Wilson in the mid '80s. > The metering unit is a very clever little modification that made the > fuel setting very repeatable. The fuel cam looks like it was heated and > now I know why. The feeler gauge shim pack is intact with a little > cardboard storage box for the individual shims. It also came with a cool > Moon air density gauge. The velocity stacks still have the hoses > attached. This also came with red rubber balls to plug the stacks just > like an old Hilborn drag setup. The dual Lucas injection pumps were > mounted on a piece of aluminum angle with the fuel filter. Eventually > this will be on a TR250 replica of the #12 car. > Greg From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Wes Dayton'" , Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:28:50 -0700 Subject: RE: Tires (Again) That's pretty expensive. I think the last set of four I bought were about $450, but I have a very leaky memory. Must be a bad seal. I suspect you'll like the Hoosiers a lot, though your lap times will probably not be as good as the A008s. Those are really great tires. Kuhmos are a pretty good tire, though the spec tire that they run in the Speed Channel events (forgot the name, another leak) are pretty bad. They feel greasy as hell once they heat up. I only drove that car once, so I don't really know if it was the car, the tires, or the driver. What ever happened to the new Dunlop's? -----Original Message----- From: Wes Dayton [mailto:oilyrag@hsrca.org.au] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:44 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Tires (Again) It's been a little while since we've discussed tires. My now-bald A008Rs mean I have to do something. The Australian rules are pretty restrictive and for TR3As it boils down to a minimum 60-profile and 185/15 size. We were running on 195/15 A008Rs which were technically not allowed but because of the lack of choice were sort of "allowed". Tires currently available that are even worth looking into seem to be: 1) Hoosier Vintage TDs 500/15. And these cost $A350 each. At the current conversion rate that makes them about $US240. 2) Kuhmo Ecsta V711 (185/15 size is a 65% profile). However, they will not import them to Australia (insufficient volume). Nonetheless, if anyone has experience with these I'd be interested - maybe if we kick up enough fuss we could get some. I know there has been talk about an Yokohama A032R-replacement with more size options, but that seems to have dried up. Given all that, a couple of questions: 1) What do you pay for a 500/15 Vintage TD? 2) Any other ideas? Wes Dayton - TR3A From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Bob Kramer'" , "'Wes Dayton'" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:15:03 -0700 Subject: RE: Tires (Again) Sounds like the same-old, same-old Dunlops. I have a lot of races on the Dunlops Peyote has to wear when we go to HMSA territory. They look brand new. I hate 'em. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kramer [mailto:rgk@flash.net] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 10:09 AM To: Bill Babcock; 'Wes Dayton'; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: Tires (Again) I have the new Dunlop 205-60-15 D84J's. I can't say that I really like them. I get the same lap times with them that I get with the Hooiser 5.50-15's, slower than the Yokes by far. They have a tendency to overheat one or both of the front tires. Seems to me that the compound just isn't sticky enough and the front tire that takes the most abuse starts to lose grip as the race progresses. On my TR4, I got them set so that both the rears and one front would temp out pretty even across the tire arfter 15 or 20 minutes racing but the outside left or right front (depending on which track) would overheat, and raise up 5 or 7 pounds obove the rest. On the track this means that I can't get it to turn as the race progresses. These tires are advertised as race tires but may be more suitable to the street! On the other hand, they still look pretty new after a bunch of track time. Bob Kramer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "'Wes Dayton'" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:28 AM Subject: RE: Tires (Again) > That's pretty expensive. I think the last set of four I bought were > about $450, but I have a very leaky memory. Must be a bad seal. > > I suspect you'll like the Hoosiers a lot, though your lap times will > probably not be as good as the A008s. Those are really great tires. > Kuhmos are a pretty good tire, though the spec tire that they run in > the Speed Channel events (forgot the name, another leak) are pretty > bad. They feel greasy as hell once they heat up. I only drove that car > once, so I don't really know if it was the car, the tires, or the driver. > > What ever happened to the new Dunlop's? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wes Dayton [mailto:oilyrag@hsrca.org.au] > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:44 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Tires (Again) > > It's been a little while since we've discussed tires. My now-bald > A008Rs mean I have to do something. The Australian rules are pretty > restrictive and for TR3As it boils down to a minimum 60-profile and > 185/15 size. We were running on 195/15 A008Rs which were technically > not allowed but because of the lack of choice were sort of "allowed". > > Tires currently available that are even worth looking into seem to be: > > 1) Hoosier Vintage TDs 500/15. And these cost $A350 each. At the > current conversion rate that makes them about $US240. > > 2) Kuhmo Ecsta V711 (185/15 size is a 65% profile). However, they will > not import them to Australia (insufficient volume). Nonetheless, if > anyone has experience with these I'd be interested - maybe if we kick > up enough fuss we could get some. > > I know there has been talk about an Yokohama A032R-replacement with > more size options, but that seems to have dried up. > > Given all that, a couple of questions: > > 1) What do you pay for a 500/15 Vintage TD? > > 2) Any other ideas? > > Wes Dayton - TR3A From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "Bill Babcock" , "'Wes Dayton'" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:09:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Tires (Again) I have the new Dunlop 205-60-15 D84J's. I can't say that I really like them. I get the same lap times with them that I get with the Hooiser 5.50-15's, slower than the Yokes by far. They have a tendency to overheat one or both of the front tires. Seems to me that the compound just isn't sticky enough and the front tire that takes the most abuse starts to lose grip as the race progresses. On my TR4, I got them set so that both the rears and one front would temp out pretty even across the tire arfter 15 or 20 minutes racing but the outside left or right front (depending on which track) would overheat, and raise up 5 or 7 pounds obove the rest. On the track this means that I can't get it to turn as the race progresses. These tires are advertised as race tires but may be more suitable to the street! On the other hand, they still look pretty new after a bunch of track time. Bob Kramer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "'Wes Dayton'" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:28 AM Subject: RE: Tires (Again) > That's pretty expensive. I think the last set of four I bought were about > $450, but I have a very leaky memory. Must be a bad seal. > > I suspect you'll like the Hoosiers a lot, though your lap times will > probably not be as good as the A008s. Those are really great tires. Kuhmos > are a pretty good tire, though the spec tire that they run in the Speed > Channel events (forgot the name, another leak) are pretty bad. They feel > greasy as hell once they heat up. I only drove that car once, so I don't > really know if it was the car, the tires, or the driver. > > What ever happened to the new Dunlop's? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wes Dayton [mailto:oilyrag@hsrca.org.au] > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:44 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Tires (Again) > > It's been a little while since we've discussed tires. My now-bald A008Rs > mean I have to do something. The Australian rules are pretty restrictive > and for TR3As it boils down to a minimum 60-profile and 185/15 size. We > were running on 195/15 A008Rs which were technically not allowed but > because of the lack of choice were sort of "allowed". > > Tires currently available that are even worth looking into seem to be: > > 1) Hoosier Vintage TDs 500/15. And these cost $A350 each. At the current > conversion rate that makes them about $US240. > > 2) Kuhmo Ecsta V711 (185/15 size is a 65% profile). However, they will not > import them to Australia (insufficient volume). Nonetheless, if anyone has > experience with these I'd be interested - maybe if we kick up enough fuss > we could get some. > > I know there has been talk about an Yokohama A032R-replacement with more > size options, but that seems to have dried up. > > Given all that, a couple of questions: > > 1) What do you pay for a 500/15 Vintage TD? > > 2) Any other ideas? > > Wes Dayton - TR3A From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Brad Eells'" , Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:07:49 -0700 Subject: RE: Velocity Stacks (air horns)... I've heard the same thing. It looks right but a horn alone won't optimize the intake. I used to have a really good computer program for computing optimal intake tract length, I need to find it. It was hugely useful for building motorcycle engines. There are a host of fundamental issues that can be optimized, and this program takes all the critical parameters into account. The way sound works in a column (and that's basically what we're dealing with) is that a open end reflects back a pressure wave. When you have a trumpet you stretch out the set of frequencies that reflect and extend the tuned length of the tract. Any sudden change reflects much more strongly than the rest of the trumpet, which makes for harsh and disruptive changes in the pressure throughout the intake. You also get turbulence from a sharp edge that disrupts flow in the mouth of the stack. The position of the carb in the tract is important, because if it gets stuck in the wrong place the resonant high or low pressure points can be located right over the jet. That makes sudden and very RPM-specific changes in the mixture. The overlap is also a critical factor since that's the source of the blast of air coming back out of the carb at low RPM. To optimize, you have to take into account the desired RPM range, the overall length of the tract, from intake valve seat to the end of the stack, the location of the carb, the beginning and ending points of the trumpet section, the choke size of the carb, and the diameter of the stack. The calculation is one of the few I've found that connects precisely from computer to reality. When I was building a motorcycle drag motor back in the early seventies, the mule engine lived on the dyno. The software was written in FORTRAN and lived in three boxes of punch cards in my locker at Long Beach Community College. I developed the software from formulas cribbed from Ricardo's _High Speed Internal Combustion Engines_ and a few other books. We'd make a change to the engine, I hop on Little Jeeter, my incredibly crappy but reliable Yamaha Twin Jet 100 parts runner bike, and go run the program with new data. Then we'd do what the program told us to do. Most of the tuning consisted of moving the carb back and forth to clean up the jetting. We almost never changed jets. At the end we were getting 70+ horsepower out of a Yamaha RD350 motor (which was good for about five passes before it needed a new set of crank and big end bearings). Of course we were dealing with intake port timing and a reed valve, and pumping the mix into the crankcase instead of cam timing and a compressed reversion charge, but it works the same way. I rewrote the program in BASIC, then Turbo Pascal, then C. It's still around somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: Brad Eells [mailto:bradlnss@lightspeed.net] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:41 PM To: Friends Of Triumph Subject: Velocity Stacks (air horns)... I recall a post a while back suggesting the below link was the ultimate velocity stack/air horn to use... http://www.twminduction.com/AirHorn/AirHorn-FR.html Anyone had experience with them?? Brad From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'kas kastner'" , fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:33:30 -0700 Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off If you look at the injectors on most of the new racing motorcycles you'll see them mounted as you describe--they are completely outside the stack on a little frame as much as five inches from the mouth, and spray down into it. Big horsepower advantage, but more importantly, much smoother power curve. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: "MARK J WEATHERS" , , Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:32:23 -0700 Subject: Re:air movment tests The tests I did for the air movement was first on the flow bench. I mounted the stack on the air inlet then used smoke to get the indication where the air was coming from. For a simple test I put my hand over the stack and it didn't make a bit if difference until it was about 2" away. The smoke indicated that the air was coming from the back of the stack thus the manifold side. In the dyno with the engine running under full power at about 5000 I used a flat board and slowly moved it up to the stacks, nothing happened until I was ABOUT AN INCH away from the stack again indicating that the air was coming from the manifold side. After this I then made the stack with big roll on the edge, that is when I picked up the big change and power improvement. Like I said, simple minded tests. I would think that stacks on Webers that had rolled edges would improve the flow. You could probably do that by mounting in a lathe, heating the edge with a torch, turning the lathe on the back gears so that it was low revs then use a wooden paddle to roll the edge over. OR just buy some that do the job. The latter sounds best. What all this did was relieve me from worrying about the air inlet being too close to the inner fender well. But it also showed the worth of having a heat shield between the headers and the carbs and manifold. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARK J WEATHERS" To: "kas kastner" ; Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 2:44 AM Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off > I would be interested in teh details. > > Mark > 72 TR6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kas kastner" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:46 AM > Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off > > > > The early velocity stacks that I did had a sharp edge and no roll back of > > the outer edge. They did not make the big difference that we achieved > later > > with a rolled over edge. In tests we found the inlet air was coming from > the > > back of the carburetors. I'll explain our tests another time if interest > is > > demonstrated. It's no big deal. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Robert M. Lang" To: Bill Babcock Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Bill Babcock wrote: > If you look at the injectors on most of the new racing motorcycles you'll > see them mounted as you describe--they are completely outside the stack on > a little frame as much as five inches from the mouth, and spray down into > it. Big horsepower advantage, but more importantly, much smoother power > curve. Is this setup considered an "annular discharge" type fuel system? I ask because the SCCA Solo II rules have a bunch of references to annular discharge carbs being not-legal. I'm just curious. rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT unix-vms-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: "Bill Babcock" , Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:40:34 -0700 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off I expect that is all .about atomization of the fuel. . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "'kas kastner'" ; Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 10:33 AM Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off > If you look at the injectors on most of the new racing motorcycles you'll > see them mounted as you describe--they are completely outside the stack on > a little frame as much as five inches from the mouth, and spray down into > it. Big horsepower advantage, but more importantly, much smoother power > curve. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Robert M. Lang" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Wedge] Safety devices Car (fwd) This showed up on the "wedge" list. Looks like an interesting car. rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT unix-vms-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Note to subscribers: Please e-mail to unix-vms-help@Mit.edu so that all the consultants see your message. This will ensure a more timely response. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0400 From: Paul MacDonald To: TR8 list Subject: [Wedge] Safety devices Car > Check this out > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2437805575&category=29760 > > > Paul MacDonald -- Forwarded via the TR7/8 mailing list. Please send administrative requests to the majordomo at tr8-request@mercury.lcs.mit.edu From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Robert M. Lang'" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:14:47 -0700 Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off Beats me, but it sounds like a painful and embarrassing condition. -----Original Message----- From: Robert M. Lang [mailto:lang@isis.mit.edu] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:31 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'kas kastner'; fot@autox.team.net Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Bill Babcock wrote: > If you look at the injectors on most of the new racing motorcycles > you'll see them mounted as you describe--they are completely outside > the stack on a little frame as much as five inches from the mouth, and > spray down into it. Big horsepower advantage, but more importantly, > much smoother power curve. Is this setup considered an "annular discharge" type fuel system? I ask because the SCCA Solo II rules have a bunch of references to annular discharge carbs being not-legal. I'm just curious. rml -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT unix-vms-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Hugh Barber" To: "Triumphs List" , Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:11:27 -0700 Subject: Harbor Freight Jack on Sale Listers, I received an Email today from Harbor Freight with their Aluminum Racing Jack on sale for $139.99. There was also a $10 off coupon in the Email. Don't know if the jack is $139.99 before the $10 off or after. I saved the email, but if you're interested, email me off-list and I'll forward the email to you. Hugh Barber From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Susan and Jack Brooks" To: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:42:26 -0700 Subject: Brake rotors Amici, What is the thickness of the larger/earlier (11 inch) diameter TR3 brake rotors? I know that the machining limit is 0.060" and 0.004" is the allowable runout, but I can't seem to find a thickness. I know we've discussed it, but I can't seem to locate the post. Thanks in advance, Jack Brooks From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Michael D. Porter" To: Bill Babcock Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:12:20 -0600 Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off Bill Babcock wrote: > Beats me, but it sounds like a painful and embarrassing condition. Doesn't it, though.... But, in answer to the Bobstah's question, as I recall, an annular discharge carb has many small outlets around the circumference of the throat. Holley used to make a downdraft that looked similar to a 5200 with annular discharge. When a two-barrel rule went into effect where I was going to be racing in Florida, I was going to put one on. But, the racing program stopped when I was fired for salesman-tossing. Cheers. -- Michael D. Porter Roswell, NM [mailto:mporter@zianet.com] Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Michael D. Porter '" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:06:14 -0700 Subject: RE: velocity stacks and stand-off Salesman tossing and annular discharge have a great deal in common. -----Original Message----- From: Michael D. Porter To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'Robert M. Lang'; 'kas kastner'; fot@autox.team.net Sent: 10/18/2003 2:12 AM Subject: Re: velocity stacks and stand-off Bill Babcock wrote: > Beats me, but it sounds like a painful and embarrassing condition. Doesn't it, though.... But, in answer to the Bobstah's question, as I recall, an annular discharge carb has many small outlets around the circumference of the throat. Holley used to make a downdraft that looked similar to a 5200 with annular discharge. When a two-barrel rule went into effect where I was going to be racing in Florida, I was going to put one on. But, the racing program stopped when I was fired for salesman-tossing. Cheers. -- Michael D. Porter Roswell, NM [mailto:mporter@zianet.com] Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Walt Hollowell To: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 05:07:28 -0600 Subject: TR250/6 vanity item I have a completely unnecessary yet totally desirable item for sale on ebay that fit a TR250 or 6. You can see it at ebay item # 2438194804. Walt Hollowell Abq., NM From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: "FOT LIST" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:31:22 -0500 Subject: TR6 brake booster in race car Amici, My TR4 came with H6 SU's on a long branch manifold. The PO even went so far as to make a divet in the RF inner frenderwell to fit the longer H6's. I recently replaced the manifold with an early short runner version and had a bung welded in the middle of the cross tube for the connection to the TR6 vacuum booster this car also has. I have never had a brake problem, but 2 weeks ago at Hallet I found myself losing confidence in my brakes. I'm wondering if the reason the PO used the long branch manifold is that he had the same problem with a short one. Anyone have any experience with this combo of parts? I also had some grease escape out of a rear seal on my Southwick axle and get on the shoes. Nice brake lock up. I cleaned it up and it didn't recur. Speaking of the axle conversion, I had an interesting problem. I was unhappy with the performance of the Dunlop 205-60 D84J's so I switched to my Hoosier TD's. The are mounted on Minilite type mag wheels. After torquing them down, I had a session where I felt like I was floating. Not the best for lap times. I found that the center hole in the wheels was too small to fit in the Southwick axle and the wheels were not all the way on. They stayed tight, but flexed. I guess it protrudes a little more than the stock axle. Bob Kramer rkramer3@austin.rr.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Triumph List , Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:37:21 -0700 Subject: Need Information on unique aftermarket Spitfire Hardtop At Triumphest, a guest asked me if I knew anything about kind of hard top he once had on a Spitfire that he once owned years ago. He would like to know more about it... part for nostalgia... to know what he had... but secondly.... as he's got the Spitfire bug in him again, and I think he is interested in putting together the same combo again... Here's what he basically described to me.... It was a hardtop that made a Spitfire into a hatchback of sorts. He was clear, it was not a GT6... To install this hardtop, you would remove the Spitfire trunk lid and fuel cap. The fuel cap was repositioned. There was some sort of a drop in the back of the top, that cut back, (I asked if it was something like a TR7 rear window and he said, "no, not quite like that, but you have the idea...") It sounded like quite a unique hardtop. (It reminded me of the TR4 Dove, but this is definitely just a bolt-on affair.) Does anyone know who made this? If they're still being made? If anyone has one to sell? Anyone have pictures of one? (even without info, pictures would probably help in the quest for what he is looking for.) I would really like to get this information for the guy, as he is quite a car enthusiast and shares all our passions for the marquee. Thanks in advance. --Justin Wagner From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Herald948@aol.com To: jmwagner@greenheart.com, triumphs@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:08:53 EDT Subject: Re: Need Information on unique aftermarket Spitfire Hardtop In a message dated 10/18/2003 10:38:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmwagner@greenheart.com writes: > It was a hardtop that made a Spitfire into a hatchback of sorts. He > was clear, it was not a GT6... To install this hardtop, you would remove > the Spitfire trunk lid and fuel cap. The fuel cap was repositioned. > There was some sort of a drop in the back of the top, that cut back, (I > asked if it was something like a TR7 rear window and he said, "no, not > quite like that, but you have the idea...") It sounded like quite a > unique hardtop. (It reminded me of the TR4 Dove, but this is > definitely just a bolt-on affair.) > > Does anyone know who made this? If they're still being made? If anyone > has one to sell? Anyone have pictures of one? (even without info, > pictures would probably help in the quest for what he is looking for.) > Justin, take a look at (and pass along to your friend) this URL: < http://amicale.com/spitfire/hardtop1.htm > >From the Amicale Spitfire (French Spitfire Club) web site. There are quite a few different aftermarket hardtops of various shapes depicted in photographs. I'm not sure if any one of them is what your friend might have had, but then again... ? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse) and Herald Database! From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Hugh Barber" To: "J M Wagner" , Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:14:44 -0700 Subject: RE: Need Information on unique aftermarket Spitfire Hardtop Justin, Way back in 1975, my first car was a 1970 Spitfire Mk3. Soon after buying the car, I purchased a book titled, "Tuning Standard-Triumphs up to 1300cc", by Richard Hudson-Evans. I distinctly remember a photo in that book of a Spitfire with just the kind of bolt-on fastback top you are describing. As I recall, it was made by a British company. Unfortunately, I don't have any other info. I don't even have the book anymore; I think I gave it to the folks who bought the Spitfire (I had married, we had a baby on the way, we had the 1970 Spitfire and a 1973 GT6, so one had to go so we could purchased a "family" car - so it goes...) Hugh Barber Hollister, CA '73 TR6 -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of J M Wagner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 7:37 PM To: Triumph List; Friends of Triumph Subject: Need Information on unique aftermarket Spitfire Hardtop At Triumphest, a guest asked me if I knew anything about kind of hard top he once had on a Spitfire that he once owned years ago. He would like to know more about it... part for nostalgia... to know what he had... but secondly.... as he's got the Spitfire bug in him again, and I think he is interested in putting together the same combo again... Here's what he basically described to me.... It was a hardtop that made a Spitfire into a hatchback of sorts. He was clear, it was not a GT6... To install this hardtop, you would remove the Spitfire trunk lid and fuel cap. The fuel cap was repositioned. There was some sort of a drop in the back of the top, that cut back, (I asked if it was something like a TR7 rear window and he said, "no, not quite like that, but you have the idea...") It sounded like quite a unique hardtop. (It reminded me of the TR4 Dove, but this is definitely just a bolt-on affair.) Does anyone know who made this? If they're still being made? If anyone has one to sell? Anyone have pictures of one? (even without info, pictures would probably help in the quest for what he is looking for.) I would really like to get this information for the guy, as he is quite a car enthusiast and shares all our passions for the marquee. Thanks in advance. --Justin Wagner From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Kahler" To: FOT Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 22:58:34 -0500 Subject: Pauter rod in spitfire 1300 block Amici, For the latest incarnation of Susan's race engine we had ordered in a set of Pauter billet rods. To make a long story short it appears that the big end diameter might be a little on the small side and what makes the situation even worse is one of the number 2 rod bolt heads hits the webbing on the block by the dip stick. Since we can't talk to Pauter until monday we're wondering if anyone else has run into these problems using their rods? Has anyone had experience grinding metal from this area of the spitfire block? Brad From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Mark J Bradakis To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Forwarded: Peerless Barn Find In case you haven't seen this. And yes, AOL subscribers may or may not be getting messages from autox.team.net. mjb. ---- ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: DSRGR@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:11:45 EDT Subject: Peerless Barn Find To: vintage-race@autox.team.net I finally got to look and photograph the Peerless (chassis GT2-00206, Engine TS46347E) that I mentioned a few weeks back. It appears to be all there except the interior. Has the original dash and steering wheel and all instruments. Has a removable roll bar (only) appears to have a set of Minilites. Glass all good. Body in very good shape. Head is off. I'd like some suggestions for what its worth, so I can advise the executor. I can put it on ebay for him if we have to but the purist in me would rather see it go to a loving home. Pics available upon request. There is also a Lancia Scorpion and the MGA with Mazda running gear that was raced with a Chev v8 originally. Unfortunately, in going through the house, we could not find any race history for any of the cars, did find a registration for the Peerless. I have no financial interest in this at all, just trying to help the executor of an old friend's estate. ------- End of forwarded message ------- From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:04:25 -0700 Subject: Need e-mail address for Bill Burroughs I had a computer virus attack a while ago that knocked out part of my computer... Does anyone have Bill Burroughs e-mail address handy? Thanks. --Justin From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Friends of Triumph Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:47:17 -0700 Subject: TR 6 Silicone Valve Cover Gasket The TR 6 valve cover gasket is out of the bag with its debut at Triumphest. It was a joy to show the gasket to Kas , Ted Schumacher, the Rimmer Bro's folks, and so many of you that made it to Triumphest. Hopefully I concealed how absolutely shell-shocked I was as a result of getting the gasket together in time for the show... flyers, photography, demo valve covers, etc. At the very last moment, before I was to leave, someone brought an aluminum cover by and I was able to test the gasket on the cover. As I had hoped and tried to design into the gasket, the gasket would work on the cover. However, I've decided not to recommend it for the aluminum covers. I think you folks should wait. I will make another mold with a slightly modified profile to make it all the better. In it's current form, it will work, but you'll still be left feeling like you're buying a cover designed for a stock cover and that you're just making it work for you. I don't want you to have that feeling. There's enough aluminum covers out there that you should have your own gasket. I promise, I will try to have that for you all by Christmas. I was going to have more molds made anyway... I will simply have one made in this slightly altered form. In the mean time, brisk stock gasket T6 and T4 gasket sales would certainly help make that all possible. I am working off one mold for the T6, presently, and production will be slow for a bit, but the wait shouldn't be too long. Pricing: As you know... for the FOT, there is a standard discount of $10.00 off the T4 type gasket. That will continue for that gasket. For the TR6 gasket, for right now, you'll be sharing the same price with others... of $44.95... as that is an "introductory price" anyway. I will, however, share with FOT the offer I made at Triumphest... free shipping (continental USA) until November 1. Down the road, when the dust settles and the introductory price comes to an end, I will work out another discount program for FOT on this gasket. It's going to take me some time to get a web page together, but in the mean time, I can take orders and gaskets will be shipped, as available, in the order that they are received. Until I have some pictures posted, I will be happy to send a picture upon request. If you'd like to order, please send to: J. M. Wagner Sales, Ltd. 1613 Chelsea Road PMB 145 San Marino, CA 91108 Please, no advance orders with payments for aluminum covers, but do let me know if you'd like to be notified, etc. A computer virus knocked out my computer a couple weeks ago and I lost most of my "waiting list" for this gasket... I did have 95% of my import files backed up, but that one slipped through. I have some hard copied, but not all. So please do let me know if you're waiting for a gasket for your aluminum cover. Thank you all. I look forward to hearing feedback from the field as the gasket hits the road. --Justin Wagner J. M. Wagner Sales, Ltd. jmwagnersales.com jmwagner@greenheart.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" To: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:06:40 -0700 Subject: fyi http://fot-racing.com/Midohio2002/Petrolati/ If you are bored.... go to this link and view photos by one of our own. Mordy From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Henry Frye To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:12:39 -0400 Subject: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Henry Frye To: Bill Babcock , fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:25:17 -0400 Subject: RE: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Henry Frye'" , fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:21:04 -0700 Subject: RE: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend Interesting, totally blank, but interesting. -----Original Message----- From: Henry Frye [mailto:henry@henryfrye.com] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 1:13 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: BillB@bnj.com Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:53:17 EDT Subject: Re: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend In a message dated 10/20/2003 5:33:57 PM Central Daylight Time, BillB@bnj.com writes: > Subj:RE: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend > Date:10/20/2003 5:33:57 PM Central Daylight Time > From:BillB@bnj.com > To:henry@henryfrye.com, fot@autox.team.net > Sent from the Internet > > > > Interesting, totally blank, but interesting. > Bill: You wouldn't understand...you had to be there. Bill (D) PS I think Henry had a 'NO NO Attachment' that got clipped by our Webmaster. VSCDA's inaugural MID-OHIO effort was a small, cozy, loaded with track time event. I had a ball, even though my Team Mates Don Brick and Bob Wismer broke down towing and never made it. It was Indian Summer (Midwestern Football) weather, and the cars loved it, but I'll let Henry tell you. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: triumphs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:49:51 EDT Subject: TR4A Road Help Needed Kent Howard is near Moab, Utah and heading for Grand Junction, CO. He has a massive oil leak (two quarts per 100 mi). I've talked him into looking for loose fittings on the left side of his TR4A tractor engine, and the valve cover, and he is going to call back in an hour or so.....about 6:00PM this evening. He did make 4-5 turns on his valve cover fittings, just now, and this may be the problem. It does not seem to be an internal engine problem, thankfully. If necessary, he would like to hook up with someone in the Grand Junction area to help him look at it. If there is someone out there, please reply and I will give his cell phone number. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Henry Frye To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:35:50 -0400 Subject: How I burned 32 gallons from my pda this time. Mark - whats going on! --- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:26:12 -0400 To: henry@henryfrye.com From: Henry Frye Subject: sdf Hi Gang, Pursuing my desire to find more events with a good track time, I went to Mid-Ohio this weekend and ran with VSCDA for the first time. What an event! Friday was three 20 minute sessions, Saturday was three 20 minute sessions, Sunday was a one hour enduro and a 15 lap sprint race. I thoroughly enjoyed burning 32 gallons of race fuel. ;-) Attention all Northeast and Mid-Atlantic racers, you REALLY need to put this event on your calendar for next year. VSCDA ran 6 race groups, every session went off on time and my group was off the track by 1:30PM on Sunday. What a treat to get an early start for the drive home! Great competition, my take on the group was they play nice and play quite hard when it counts. Pretty much exactly what I am looking for in Vintage Racing. VSCDA is a great organization, it's a non-profit group run by racers. Our own Bob Wismer and Bill Dentinger seem to be important amongst their ranks, if that's the case they MUST be OK... ;-) Being a private event not open to the public, the Mid-Ohio Nazi's were no where to be found, and everyone had a super time. It was cool but dry Friday through Sunday, perfect racing weather. The FOT paddock was full, but there were not many Triumphs! Mike Jackson and his wife Sandy brought his pair of Formula Vee's, they had the Beech rented to great guy from California, Dick Ryan. They shared the Beady Eye tent with Bill Dentinger, occupying the spaces normally filled by Bob Wismer and Don Brick. Apparently The Wiz broke a trailer spring very close to home upon departing for the track, and Bob and Don lost the enthusiasm needed for the long tow. They were missed, but not as much as Don's chee se and Bob's case of red wine for the wine and cheese party! Guys, if this happens again remember two words... Federal Express! John Wiley was there without his TR4, he to was piloting one of his Formula Vee's for the weekend. Snook's Dream Car Enterprises rounded out our gang, but Jeff was driving his Formula Ford while he and Terry attended to a fun father/son team running an pretty nice Alfa GTV. John Harkness was co-chair of the event and was seen looking official, and he passed the driving of his Vee to his son Sean for the weekend. Sean did great, and had a super time to boot. Bill offered John Harkness a ride co-driving the enduro in the Thunderbolt. John jumped at the chance, and turned some incredible lap times. I was under my personal best since they started timing us on Saturday, and ending up with a low 1:52 in the sprint race. Had a super dice with a 356, we never got more that 100 feet apart the entire race. He had me on power on the straights, but I was all over him on the back half of the course. We swapped positions, but he came out on top when the checker flew. I'll get him next time! All you guys who went to Mid-Ohio with SVRA and got fed up with the Mid-Ohio attitude and the low track time, here is your chance to get some serious track time at this great course, running with a super group of vintage racers. This one is already inked in on my 2004 schedule! --- end forwarded text Sent from my PDA. Sorry for brevity and typos From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:28:10 EDT Subject: Midwest Council "That Loooong Race" Triumphs were well represented at Blackhawk Farms. Wonderful weather. Vintage/Historic had 45 or so entries for races on Saturday and again on Sunday. I ran Saturday and Sean ran Sunday. And the car ran well with 1:29s on this 2 mile course. Kids had a great time with big wheel race and 'trick or treating' the corner workers. FoTers Wismer, Hill, Korey, and Benford came to cheer us on. Nice way to end the season, if we couldnt go all of the way to Mid-Ohio. See you next year. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Richard Taylor" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:02:18 -0400 Subject: How I solved the StringTheory in only 32 hours From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Susan Kahler To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:01:36 -0500 Subject: How Brad and I Obtained 32 More Project Cars From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Henry Frye To: BillDentin@aol.com, BillB@bnj.com Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:15:27 -0400 Subject: Re: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend Nope, it wasn't an attachment. Now I see Susan tried to send a message with a similar subject, with the same blank body. I think something is amiss with Majordomo! >PS > >I think Henry had a 'NO NO Attachment' that got clipped by our Webmaster. >VSCDA's inaugural MID-OHIO effort was a small, cozy, loaded with track time >event. I had a ball, even though my Team Mates Don Brick and Bob Wismer >broke >down towing and never made it. It was Indian Summer (Midwestern Football) >weather, and the cars loved it, but I'll let Henry tell you. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Irv Korey To: Henry Frye , BillDentin@aol.com, BillB@bnj.com Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:49:38 -0500 Subject: Re: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend At 10:15 PM 10/20/03 -0400, Henry Frye wrote: >Nope, it wasn't an attachment. Now I see Susan tried to send a message >with a similar subject, with the same blank body. > >I think something is amiss with Majordomo! Or maybe Susan is yanking your chain!!!!! ;-) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "tstrange@new.rr.com" To: emanteno@attglobal.net, henry@henryfrye.com, billdentin@aol.com, Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:02:59 -0400 Subject: Re: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend couldn't be..... ;>) Susan?????? couldn't be.... hmmmmm Original Message: ----------------- From: Irv Korey emanteno@attglobal.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:49:38 -0500 To: henry@henryfrye.com, BillDentin@aol.com, BillB@bnj.com, fot@autox.team.net ('fot@autox.team.net') Subject: Re: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend At 10:15 PM 10/20/03 -0400, Henry Frye wrote: >Nope, it wasn't an attachment. Now I see Susan tried to send a message >with a similar subject, with the same blank body. > >I think something is amiss with Majordomo! Or maybe Susan is yanking your chain!!!!! ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jeffery Senty" To: , Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:09:06 -0500 Subject: RE: Midwest Council "That Loooong Race" Yes, the British presence was strong in both vintage and production. Many thank you's to Tom Strange for the shelter !!!! It became a full blown Spitfire shop after third gear went bad during Saturday's vintage race. Tom,Scott,Jim thank you,your help made the difference. Glade Snodgrass and his beautiful daughter Shantel made the task seem easy. By nine that night we had it ready for Sunday's enduro. The determination award would have to be Glade's. During qualifying at 10 am Glade dropped a valve, it left #3 piston with a hole and a bent pushrod. Three fifteen they call group 6 to grid. Three thirty Glade makes last call. He proceeds to finish 11th even after spinning on turn one on the last lap. With large field of around 40 and heavy traffic I finished 26th. The ol' blue spit ran great turning 1:31's. Best race of the day? The Big Wheel race! My grandson Hunter who is five was put in with six and seven year olds. He SMOKED them! See ya next year! Jeff Senty Gp89blue And all that stuff -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 6:28 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Midwest Council "That Loooong Race" Triumphs were well represented at Blackhawk Farms. Wonderful weather. Vintage/Historic had 45 or so entries for races on Saturday and again on Sunday. I ran Saturday and Sean ran Sunday. And the car ran well with 1:29s on this 2 mile course. Kids had a great time with big wheel race and 'trick or treating' the corner workers. FoTers Wismer, Hill, Korey, and Benford came to cheer us on. Nice way to end the season, if we couldnt go all of the way to Mid-Ohio. See you next year. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Kahler" To: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:09:33 -0600 Subject: Re: How Brad and I Obtained 32 More Project Cars Whew.....and I thought Susan was going to give away our little secret.....:) Brad ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Susan Kahler Reply-To: Susan Kahler Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:01:36 -0500 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Wiley, John C" To: "Henry Frye" , , Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:17:16 -0400 Subject: RE: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend I will second that, the event was very well organized and went off without a hitch. Hats off to John Harkness, especially when you consider this was the first time for this event. What a great time! -----Original Message----- From: Henry Frye [mailto:henry@henryfrye.com] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:15 PM To: BillDentin@aol.com; BillB@bnj.com Cc: 'fot@autox.team.net' Subject: Re: How I Burned 32 Gallons of Gas This Weekend Nope, it wasn't an attachment. Now I see Susan tried to send a message with a similar subject, with the same blank body. I think something is amiss with Majordomo! >PS > >I think Henry had a 'NO NO Attachment' that got clipped by our >Webmaster. VSCDA's inaugural MID-OHIO effort was a small, cozy, loaded >with track time event. I had a ball, even though my Team Mates Don >Brick and Bob Wismer broke down towing and never made it. It was >Indian Summer (Midwestern Football) weather, and the cars loved it, but >I'll let Henry tell you. This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: To: FOT Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:17:05 +0200 Subject: race seat what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont get problems with my head being above the roll bar ! most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" Christian Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: , "'FOT'" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:30:20 -0700 Subject: RE: race seat I have Kirkey aluminum seats in Tiny Tim they are 7.5" wide and fit fine. They are low enough to bolt right to the floor pan, so you should not have to sit up really high. On the subject of the head being above the roll bar, it really depends on the height of the bar. Various sanctioning bodies have different rules about roll bar height, but it is a good idea to ensure that the bar is 2 inches above the top of your helmet, regardless of how tall it ends up being. Regards, Joe (C) -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of cj123@ofir.dk Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:17 AM To: FOT Subject: race seat what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont get problems with my head being above the roll bar ! most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" Christian Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net, team-thicko@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:41:16 EDT Subject: Kent Howard Update Thanks for all of the responses. Special thanks to Justin Wagner for his offer to Overnight one of his very special silicone valve cover gaskets. If Kent has an unusable valve cover gasket, he will likely contact Justin...or I will. Kent was traveling solo from Triumphest back to his home near Milwaukee....egads! It might be suggested that Kent is somewhat mechanically challenged although he has driven his original purchase 1965 TR4A for nearly 200K. But he has the Triumph community behind him and wants to thank everyone. He says we are better than AAA. I should get another update from him in an hour or so. It seems like the valve cover gasket has drifted in from the sealing surface at the rear of the engine. Thanks for all of the responses. Joe Alexander From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "Joe Curry" , , Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:17:53 -0500 Subject: Re: race seat > I have Kirkey aluminum seats in Tiny Tim they are 7.5" wide you need to eat more...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'FOT'" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: RE: race seat > I have Kirkey aluminum seats in Tiny Tim they are 7.5" wide and fit > fine. They are low enough to bolt right to the floor pan, so you should > not have to sit up really high. > > On the subject of the head being above the roll bar, it really depends > on the height of the bar. Various sanctioning bodies have different > rules about roll bar height, but it is a good idea to ensure that the > bar is 2 inches above the top of your helmet, regardless of how tall it > ends up being. > > Regards, > Joe (C) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of cj123@ofir.dk > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:17 AM > To: FOT > Subject: race seat > > what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont > get > problems with my head being above the roll bar ! > most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" > > Christian > Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bob Kramer'" , , Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:43:47 -0700 Subject: RE: race seat I didn't say that I need a shoe horn to fit my fat butt into them! :) Joe (C) -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kramer [mailto:rgk@flash.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:18 AM To: Joe Curry; cj123@ofir.dk; 'FOT' Subject: Re: race seat > I have Kirkey aluminum seats in Tiny Tim they are 7.5" wide you need to eat more...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'FOT'" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: RE: race seat > I have Kirkey aluminum seats in Tiny Tim they are 7.5" wide and fit > fine. They are low enough to bolt right to the floor pan, so you should > not have to sit up really high. > > On the subject of the head being above the roll bar, it really depends > on the height of the bar. Various sanctioning bodies have different > rules about roll bar height, but it is a good idea to ensure that the > bar is 2 inches above the top of your helmet, regardless of how tall it > ends up being. > > Regards, > Joe (C) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of cj123@ofir.dk > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:17 AM > To: FOT > Subject: race seat > > what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont > get > problems with my head being above the roll bar ! > most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" > > Christian > Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Bob Kramer'" , , Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:48:01 -0700 Subject: RE: race seat I just realized after the responses I got to my message that I left off a magic "1" from the size. The width is 17.5". Much easier to fit my posterior in that size! Joe (C) -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Kramer Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:18 AM To: Joe Curry; cj123@ofir.dk; 'FOT' Subject: Re: race seat > I have Kirkey aluminum seats in Tiny Tim they are 7.5" wide you need to eat more...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'FOT'" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: RE: race seat > I have Kirkey aluminum seats in Tiny Tim they are 7.5" wide and fit > fine. They are low enough to bolt right to the floor pan, so you should > not have to sit up really high. > > On the subject of the head being above the roll bar, it really depends > on the height of the bar. Various sanctioning bodies have different > rules about roll bar height, but it is a good idea to ensure that the > bar is 2 inches above the top of your helmet, regardless of how tall it > ends up being. > > Regards, > Joe (C) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of cj123@ofir.dk > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:17 AM > To: FOT > Subject: race seat > > what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont > get > problems with my head being above the roll bar ! > most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" > > Christian > Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Susan Kahler'" , fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:36:42 -0700 Subject: How I sold 32 cars and bikes on eBay (not blank) Okay, it's not 32, I've sold four so far, and have three more listed and four more to go that I'm waffling on. No Triumphs scheduled except a TR6R Motorcycle that's part of the big waffle. I'm also thinking of shedding at least one of two BSA Goldstars, my 1967 Maserati Mistral, and an XR600R dirt bike that keeps throwing me on the ground. I'm thinning the herd a bit--I was starting to feel guilty about having too many toys I don't use, and I'm not a collector, honest I'm not. I inadvertently pissed off at least dozen people who had asked me to let them know if I was ever going to sell Diane's 62 Corvette. I guess they were serious... who knew. When the receptionist at our Dentist found out what it went for ($32,000) she told Diane I was at the very top of her s**t list. That's pretty scary, I have an appointment to have my teeth cleaned. Some folks (OK, it was Susan) wanted to see the new 360. It's in the background of some of these shots. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&use rid=billbab&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 Alternatively: 2438148833 2438628230 2438642662 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Rocky Entriken" To: , "FOT" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:07:05 -0500 Subject: Re: race seat I have a Kirkey in my Mk. I Spitfire also, and like Joe's, mine bolts right to the floor. When I checked the Kirkey out, they had a "wide" and a "narrow" on display. I carry a bit of extra ballast but I still wedge into the narrow seat which, once seated, I love because it holds me in so well. Feels like I don't even need the harness. It's 14.5" wide -- inner dimensions at both the hips and under the arms. The "ear" on the left side is shorter than the one on the right, and so not difficult to get past while getting into the car. My roll cage started life as a standard Autopower rollbar (with additions since welded on). With the Kirkey bolted to the floor, I am easily below the bar. I stand 5-10=. My old fiberglass "shell" bucket seat bolted to a brace that tilted it back, and I drove with something of a straight-arm driving position. Instructors urged me to get closer to the steering wheel. Now with the Kirkey on the floor I sit more upright and have a more relaxed arms-bent driving position, but my legs are no closer to the pedals than before. All in all, an improvement. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:17 AM Subject: race seat > what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont get > problems with my head being above the roll bar ! > most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" > > Christian > Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: rocky@tri.net Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:32:21 EDT Subject: Recommended Seat Position Rocky I found your comment about the physical position of the seat (level on the floor) to be very interesting. It was very recently recommended to me that I have a new seat inclined slightly backward. The person giving the recommendation, who has aircraft experience, says that combat pilots seats are inclined backward because it is a better position for a person body under the stress of high speed turns. Does the Kirby, by design, already has some inclination in it when position on the floor? Or should I be seeking some second opinions about the positioning of the seat. CP From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jack W. Drews" To: triumphs@autox.team.net, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:52:08 -0500 Subject: trip advice needed Gentleman Joe Alexander and Uncle Jack Drews are making a geezer trip halfway across the country -- Iowa to California and back. To relieve the boredom of having to talk with only each other for that distance, we're looking for interesting things to see and do along the way -- hopefully gearhead related, but not necessarily. We're going I-80 to Fort Collins or so, 40 across Colorado, down through Reno, and on to San Fransisco. Any suggestions for neat things to see and do along that route? uncle jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Jack W. Drews'" , triumphs@autox.team.net, Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:15:57 -0700 Subject: RE: trip advice needed No sightseeing advice, but the best thing for long road trips are books-on-tape. I really like all the Rex Stout mysteries, they're read by a guy with a great voice. All the Patrick O'Brian Aubrey/Maturin novels are excellent also. I can lend you most of the series if you'd like. For that matter I have dozens of Rex Stout too. The Bill Babcock lending library. Sounds good. Which reminds me--November 14th, Master and Commander comes to the big screen. I can't wait. Too bad old Patrick isn't still here with us to see that. Russell Crowe as Jack Aubrey. Cool. -----Original Message----- From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4@geneseo.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:52 PM To: triumphs@autox.team.net; FOT@autox.team.net Subject: trip advice needed Gentleman Joe Alexander and Uncle Jack Drews are making a geezer trip halfway across the country -- Iowa to California and back. To relieve the boredom of having to talk with only each other for that distance, we're looking for interesting things to see and do along the way -- hopefully gearhead related, but not necessarily. We're going I-80 to Fort Collins or so, 40 across Colorado, down through Reno, and on to San Fransisco. Any suggestions for neat things to see and do along that route? uncle jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Mike Jackson To: "'Jack W. Drews'" , triumphs@autox.team.net, Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:10:42 -0400 Subject: Re: How I burned 32 gallons It was great to see you again Henry! I'm thrilled that the Grandwazoo jinx on your car is now broken. Seems every time I"m at an event with you some horrible spell comes over the big yellow car. Maybe it's because of all the times it saw me at a track with it's former owner. It was a good weekend, even the weather co-operated. And Jeff Snook opened his museum on Thursday for those of us on the way to the track with time to spare. mike jackson Henry Frye wrote: > from my pda this time. > > Mark - whats going on! > > --- begin forwarded text > > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:26:12 -0400 > To: henry@henryfrye.com > From: Henry Frye > Subject: sdf > > Hi Gang, > > Pursuing my desire to find more events with a good track time, I went to > Mid-Ohio this weekend and ran with VSCDA for the first time. What an > event! Friday was three 20 minute sessions, Saturday was three 20 minute > sessions, Sunday was a one hour enduro and a 15 lap sprint race. I > thoroughly enjoyed burning 32 gallons of race fuel. ;-) > > Attention all Northeast and Mid-Atlantic racers, you REALLY need to put > this event on your calendar for next year. VSCDA ran 6 race groups, > every session went off on time and my group was off the track by 1:30PM > on Sunday. What a treat to get an early start for the drive home! > > Great competition, my take on the group was they play nice and play > quite hard when it counts. Pretty much exactly what I am looking for in > Vintage Racing. > > VSCDA is a great organization, it's a non-profit group run by racers. > Our own Bob Wismer and Bill Dentinger seem to be important amongst their > ranks, if that's the case they MUST be OK... ;-) > > Being a private event not open to the public, the Mid-Ohio Nazi's were > no where to be found, and everyone had a super time. It was cool but dry > Friday through Sunday, perfect racing weather. > > The FOT paddock was full, but there were not many Triumphs! Mike Jackson > and his wife Sandy brought his pair of Formula Vee's, they had the Beech > rented to great guy from California, Dick Ryan. They shared the Beady > Eye tent with Bill Dentinger, occupying the spaces normally filled by > Bob Wismer and Don Brick. Apparently The Wiz broke a trailer spring very > close to home upon departing for the track, and Bob and Don lost the > enthusiasm needed for the long tow. They were missed, but not as much as > Don's chee se and Bob's case of red wine for the wine and cheese party! > Guys, if this happens again remember two words... Federal Express! > > John Wiley was there without his TR4, he to was piloting one of his > Formula Vee's for the weekend. Snook's Dream Car Enterprises rounded out > our gang, but Jeff was driving his Formula Ford while he and Terry > attended to a fun father/son team running an pretty nice Alfa GTV. John > Harkness was co-chair of the event and was seen looking official, and he > passed the driving of his Vee to his son Sean for the weekend. Sean did > great, and had a super time to boot. > > Bill offered John Harkness a ride co-driving the enduro in the > Thunderbolt. John jumped at the chance, and turned some incredible lap > times. I was under my personal best since they started timing us on > Saturday, and ending up with a low 1:52 in the sprint race. Had a super > dice with a 356, we never got more that 100 feet apart the entire race. > He had me on power on the straights, but I was all over him on the back > half of the course. We swapped positions, but he came out on top when > the checker flew. I'll get him next time! > > All you guys who went to Mid-Ohio with SVRA and got fed up with the > Mid-Ohio attitude and the low track time, here is your chance to get > some serious track time at this great course, running with a super group > of vintage racers. > > This one is already inked in on my 2004 schedule! > > --- end forwarded text > Sent from my PDA. Sorry for brevity and typos From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'FOT'" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:40:53 -0700 Subject: SCCA runoffs Television air dates For the benefit of those who don't get the SCCA's SportsCar magazine (your loss because you don't get to read Rocky's column), I am sending the air times for the Valvoline runoffs held this year. They are on the Speed Channel and all times are in the Eastern time zone, so adjust accordingly. Race Class Date Time +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 CSR Sat. Nov. 22 12 pm 2 Showroom Stock C Sat. Nov. 22 1 pm 3 GP Sat. Nov. 22 2 pm 4 Formula Atlantic Sun. Nov. 23 12 pm 5 Touring 2 Sun. Nov. 23 1 pm 6 GT4 Sun. Nov. 23 2 pm 7 Formula Mazda Sat. Nov. 29 12 pm 8 GT2 Sat. Nov. 29 1 pm 9 HP Sat. Nov. 29 2 pm 10 Showroom Stock B Sun. Nov. 30 12 pm 11 Formula 500 Sun. Nov. 30 1 pm 12 Touring 1 Sun. Nov. 30 2 pm 13 GT5 Sat. Dec. 6 12 pm 14 American Sedan Sat. Dec. 6 1 pm 15 Formula Ford Sat. Dec. 6 2 pm 16 FP Sun. Nov. 7 12 pm 17 DSR Sun. Nov. 7 1 pm 18 Formula VEE Sun. Nov. 7 2 pm 19 Sports 2000 Sat. Dec. 13 12 pm 20 GT1 Sat. Dec. 13 1 pm 21 EP Sat. Dec. 13 2 pm 22 Spec Racer Ford Sun. Nov. 14 12 pm 23 Formula Continental Sun. Nov. 14 1 pm 24 GT3 Sun. Nov. 14 2 pm Regards, Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: vinttr4@geneseo.net, triumphs@autox.team.net, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:06:12 EDT Subject: trip advice needed....now parts offers Also, if anyone needs any body panels, like TR6 RH fender or TR4 panels or hoods, or TR4 chassis or 4.1:1 gears, aluminum water pump and housing, brand new TR4/6/Spitfire windshield (still in box) TR4 blocks, ad nauseum. or ask for specific parts....we are traveling with empty trailer and can potentially deliver large or unusual part if near our I-80 route from Iowa to San Francisco. Joe Alexander > Gentleman Joe Alexander and Uncle Jack Drews are making a geezer trip > halfway across the country -- Iowa to California and back. To relieve the > boredom of having to talk with only each other for that distance, we're > looking for interesting things to see and do along the way -- hopefully > gearhead related, but not necessarily. > > We're going I-80 to Fort Collins or so, 40 across Colorado, down through > Reno, and on to San Fransisco. > > Any suggestions for neat things to see and do along that route? > > uncle jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: "'Joe Curry'" , "'FOT'" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:48:51 -0700 Subject: RE: SCCA runoffs Television air dates Thanks. I need to program Tivo. I do get it, but I must have missed it. I'm thinking of doing the runoffs for DSR next year. Got to do it sometime. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry [mailto:spitlist@cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:41 PM To: 'FOT' Subject: SCCA runoffs Television air dates For the benefit of those who don't get the SCCA's SportsCar magazine (your loss because you don't get to read Rocky's column), I am sending the air times for the Valvoline runoffs held this year. They are on the Speed Channel and all times are in the Eastern time zone, so adjust accordingly. Race Class Date Time +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 CSR Sat. Nov. 22 12 pm 2 Showroom Stock C Sat. Nov. 22 1 pm 3 GP Sat. Nov. 22 2 pm 4 Formula Atlantic Sun. Nov. 23 12 pm 5 Touring 2 Sun. Nov. 23 1 pm 6 GT4 Sun. Nov. 23 2 pm 7 Formula Mazda Sat. Nov. 29 12 pm 8 GT2 Sat. Nov. 29 1 pm 9 HP Sat. Nov. 29 2 pm 10 Showroom Stock B Sun. Nov. 30 12 pm 11 Formula 500 Sun. Nov. 30 1 pm 12 Touring 1 Sun. Nov. 30 2 pm 13 GT5 Sat. Dec. 6 12 pm 14 American Sedan Sat. Dec. 6 1 pm 15 Formula Ford Sat. Dec. 6 2 pm 16 FP Sun. Nov. 7 12 pm 17 DSR Sun. Nov. 7 1 pm 18 Formula VEE Sun. Nov. 7 2 pm 19 Sports 2000 Sat. Dec. 13 12 pm 20 GT1 Sat. Dec. 13 1 pm 21 EP Sat. Dec. 13 2 pm 22 Spec Racer Ford Sun. Nov. 14 12 pm 23 Formula Continental Sun. Nov. 14 1 pm 24 GT3 Sun. Nov. 14 2 pm Regards, Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: Jeffery Senty , "'Rocky Entriken'" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:46:10 -0700 Subject: RE: race seat Those look an awful lot like Kirkey seats. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffery Senty [mailto:gp89@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:38 PM To: 'Rocky Entriken'; cj123@ofir.dk; 'FOT' Subject: RE: race seat I had a Kirkey seat in my last Spitfire and loved it. It wouldn't fit in #89 I have now because of the design of the cage. It was a 20 degree layback style and fit like a glove. Ultra Shield Race Products has one designed for Spec Miatas and limited space cars. Web is www.ultrashieldrace.com Hope this helps. Jeff Senty Gp89blue -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rocky Entriken Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:07 PM To: cj123@ofir.dk; FOT Subject: Re: race seat I have a Kirkey in my Mk. I Spitfire also, and like Joe's, mine bolts right to the floor. When I checked the Kirkey out, they had a "wide" and a "narrow" on display. I carry a bit of extra ballast but I still wedge into the narrow seat which, once seated, I love because it holds me in so well. Feels like I don't even need the harness. It's 14.5" wide -- inner dimensions at both the hips and under the arms. The "ear" on the left side is shorter than the one on the right, and so not difficult to get past while getting into the car. My roll cage started life as a standard Autopower rollbar (with additions since welded on). With the Kirkey bolted to the floor, I am easily below the bar. I stand 5-10=. My old fiberglass "shell" bucket seat bolted to a brace that tilted it back, and I drove with something of a straight-arm driving position. Instructors urged me to get closer to the steering wheel. Now with the Kirkey on the floor I sit more upright and have a more relaxed arms-bent driving position, but my legs are no closer to the pedals than before. All in all, an improvement. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:17 AM Subject: race seat > what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont get > problems with my head being above the roll bar ! > most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" > > Christian > Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jeffery Senty" To: "'Rocky Entriken'" , , Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:38:28 -0500 Subject: RE: race seat I had a Kirkey seat in my last Spitfire and loved it. It wouldn't fit in #89 I have now because of the design of the cage. It was a 20 degree layback style and fit like a glove. Ultra Shield Race Products has one designed for Spec Miatas and limited space cars. Web is www.ultrashieldrace.com Hope this helps. Jeff Senty Gp89blue -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rocky Entriken Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:07 PM To: cj123@ofir.dk; FOT Subject: Re: race seat I have a Kirkey in my Mk. I Spitfire also, and like Joe's, mine bolts right to the floor. When I checked the Kirkey out, they had a "wide" and a "narrow" on display. I carry a bit of extra ballast but I still wedge into the narrow seat which, once seated, I love because it holds me in so well. Feels like I don't even need the harness. It's 14.5" wide -- inner dimensions at both the hips and under the arms. The "ear" on the left side is shorter than the one on the right, and so not difficult to get past while getting into the car. My roll cage started life as a standard Autopower rollbar (with additions since welded on). With the Kirkey bolted to the floor, I am easily below the bar. I stand 5-10=. My old fiberglass "shell" bucket seat bolted to a brace that tilted it back, and I drove with something of a straight-arm driving position. Instructors urged me to get closer to the steering wheel. Now with the Kirkey on the floor I sit more upright and have a more relaxed arms-bent driving position, but my legs are no closer to the pedals than before. All in all, an improvement. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:17 AM Subject: race seat > what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont get > problems with my head being above the roll bar ! > most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" > > Christian > Denmark From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Aaron Johnson" To: , "FOT" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:46:14 -0700 Subject: Re: race seat Same for me. I use a kirkey intermediate at 17" wide. I am going to go back down to a 15" but run it with out the padding to get lower in the car. aaron From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Rocky Entriken" To: "Aaron Johnson" , , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:48:22 -0500 Subject: Re: race seat The padding is so minimal it hardly makes any difference. --Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Johnson" To: ; "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: Re: race seat > Same for me. > > I use a kirkey intermediate at 17" wide. I am going to go back down to a 15" > but run it with out the padding to get lower in the car. > > aaron From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Rocky Entriken" To: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:33:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Recommended Seat Position Well, the first reaction I'd have is that aircraft experience does not apply here. I have a bit of Av background also -- my military time was in Navy Aviation (no I did not fly, but I was around those who did), and my baby brother is an F1 air racer. Our cars don't pull the g-loads a jet pilot encounters. In fact, that jet pilot's g-loads tend to be vertical as he is tilted almost 90 degrees over when doing a fast, tight, high-load turn. It's also why they wear G-suits, to prevent the blood from rushing out of the brain and into their legs and making them black out. Not a problem we encounter much. Our G-loads are lateral, and the Kirkey [not Kirby] is designed exactly for that. Said pilot is also generally flying with an arm position that has his elbows by his ribcage, a very relaxed position. A race car's steering wheel tends to be roughly chest-high while the jet pilot's joystick is down around his navel. So we tend to sit reaching out to the wheel. My old seat had me reaching so far my arms were almost straight out. Virtually all leverage of turning the steering wheel was in the shoulder muscles (I was younger then too!). Now my upper and lower arms are almost 90 degrees at the elbow, and I have better leverage turning the wheel using arm muscles. Look at an in-car at a NASCAR race. They sit so close they often have their elbow ON the wheel, giving them even more leverage as they turn the car. These are guys who are in their car 3-4 hours at a time, not a half hour like we do, so they have really studied how to last that long while conserving energy. That seating position is a major aspect of that, and those guys sit straight up. Open-wheel racers (F1, CART IRL) tend to be more straight-arm, but their wheel takes a one-inch turn to get around most corners. The G-loads our Spitfires generate are closer to Piper Cub than F18. So that is of negligible concern to us. Comfort and leverage are much more important. That said, the real factors determining whether your seat should be straight up or tilted back has to do with two aspects -- how far your hands reach to the wheel (you want an arms-bent position) and how far your legs reach to the pedals (you want pedal to the metal - gas & clutch -- at full extension but without going tippytoe to do it). For me to maintain the arm position I now want, to have the seat tilted would mean moving it forward and that would cause me to sit bowlegged (which I already do slightly anyway). In my case, it is as if the back of the seat were located in the same place (old seat vs. new) but I rotated the upper portion forward. Thus my legs/lower body are no closer but my arms/upper body are. When we installed my Kirkey, first thing we did was just put it on the flor of the car, loose, and I sat in it at various positions until I decided what was comfortable and best leverage. Then we marked where it was and drilled the bolt holes. --Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: rocky@tri.net Cc: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:32 PM Subject: Recommended Seat Position Rocky I found your comment about the physical position of the seat (level on the floor) to be very interesting. It was very recently recommended to me that I have a new seat inclined slightly backward. The person giving the recommendation, who has aircraft experience, says that combat pilots seats are inclined backward because it is a better position for a person body under the stress of high speed turns. Does the Kirby, by design, already has some inclination in it when position on the floor? Or should I be seeking some second opinions about the positioning of the seat. CP From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "John Price" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:32:52 -0500 Subject: Tires Amici: An acquaintance of mine in England says he has purchased Yokohama A032Rs in size 205/60-15 for his race car. That's a big tire! The Yokohama website doesn't list this as a size for that tire. Anyone know anything about this? John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Randall Young" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:44:39 -0700 Subject: RE: Tires > An acquaintance of mine in England says he has purchased > Yokohama A032Rs in > size 205/60-15 for his race car. That's a big tire! The Yokohama website > doesn't list this as a size for that tire. Are you sure they weren't A022R ? Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jeff Snook" To: "Henry Frye" , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:22:07 -0400 Subject: Re: How I burned 32 gallons Dear FOTers, Henry is completely right about this event. It was the first year for VSCDA at Mid Ohio and they "rang the bell" with this one. Great weather, great racing and of course the not to be missed "Beady Eyes Racing Team" Wine & Cheese Party(ies). I don't know exactly how much fuel I used, but I logged 3 hours on my FFord. Whew! The feature race on Sunday was 15 laps! Thanks to John Harkness, Race Chairman, for a great fall event and a wrap-up to my 2003 season. Vroom, vroom, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 5:35 PM Subject: How I burned 32 gallons > from my pda this time. > > Mark - whats going on! > > --- begin forwarded text > > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:26:12 -0400 > To: henry@henryfrye.com > From: Henry Frye > Subject: sdf > > > Hi Gang, > > Pursuing my desire to find more events with a good track time, I went to > Mid-Ohio this weekend and ran with VSCDA for the first time. What an > event! Friday was three 20 minute sessions, Saturday was three 20 minute > sessions, Sunday was a one hour enduro and a 15 lap sprint race. I > thoroughly enjoyed burning 32 gallons of race fuel. ;-) > > > Attention all Northeast and Mid-Atlantic racers, you REALLY need to put > this event on your calendar for next year. VSCDA ran 6 race groups, > every session went off on time and my group was off the track by 1:30PM > on Sunday. What a treat to get an early start for the drive home! > > > Great competition, my take on the group was they play nice and play > quite hard when it counts. Pretty much exactly what I am looking for in > Vintage Racing. > > > VSCDA is a great organization, it's a non-profit group run by racers. > Our own Bob Wismer and Bill Dentinger seem to be important amongst their > ranks, if that's the case they MUST be OK... ;-) > > > Being a private event not open to the public, the Mid-Ohio Nazi's were > no where to be found, and everyone had a super time. It was cool but dry > Friday through Sunday, perfect racing weather. > > > The FOT paddock was full, but there were not many Triumphs! Mike Jackson > and his wife Sandy brought his pair of Formula Vee's, they had the Beech > rented to great guy from California, Dick Ryan. They shared the Beady > Eye tent with Bill Dentinger, occupying the spaces normally filled by > Bob Wismer and Don Brick. Apparently The Wiz broke a trailer spring very > close to home upon departing for the track, and Bob and Don lost the > enthusiasm needed for the long tow. They were missed, but not as much as > Don's chee se and Bob's case of red wine for the wine and cheese party! > Guys, if this happens again remember two words... Federal Express! > > > John Wiley was there without his TR4, he to was piloting one of his > Formula Vee's for the weekend. Snook's Dream Car Enterprises rounded out > our gang, but Jeff was driving his Formula Ford while he and Terry > attended to a fun father/son team running an pretty nice Alfa GTV. John > Harkness was co-chair of the event and was seen looking official, and he > passed the driving of his Vee to his son Sean for the weekend. Sean did > great, and had a super time to boot. > > > Bill offered John Harkness a ride co-driving the enduro in the > Thunderbolt. John jumped at the chance, and turned some incredible lap > times. I was under my personal best since they started timing us on > Saturday, and ending up with a low 1:52 in the sprint race. Had a super > dice with a 356, we never got more that 100 feet apart the entire race. > He had me on power on the straights, but I was all over him on the back > half of the course. We swapped positions, but he came out on top when > the checker flew. I'll get him next time! > > > All you guys who went to Mid-Ohio with SVRA and got fed up with the > Mid-Ohio attitude and the low track time, here is your chance to get > some serious track time at this great course, running with a super group > of vintage racers. > > > This one is already inked in on my 2004 schedule! > > > > > --- end forwarded text > Sent from my PDA. Sorry for brevity and typos From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bob Bownes To: "Jack W. Drews" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:58:27 -0400 Subject: Re: trip advice needed Last time I did that drive, we stopped at the SAC museum outside Omaha. Was GREAT. we still talk about it 15 years later.... Jack W. Drews wrote: > Gentleman Joe Alexander and Uncle Jack Drews are making a geezer trip > halfway across the country -- Iowa to California and back. To relieve > the boredom of having to talk with only each other for that distance, > we're looking for interesting things to see and do along the way -- > hopefully gearhead related, but not necessarily. > > We're going I-80 to Fort Collins or so, 40 across Colorado, down through > Reno, and on to San Fransisco. > > Any suggestions for neat things to see and do along that route? > > uncle jack From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: Rocky Entriken , Group44TR7@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:21:42 -0700 Subject: RE: Recommended Seat Position Good dialog, and useful. The old straight arm position had a lot to do with unsupported seating. You could hang onto the wheel to keep your body somewhat in position. I find the most important support for this patched together body I have is in the shoulders, so my seats are super ugly expanding foam and ductape. Once I'm belted in my upper body is in a socket with my arms and shoulders free. This winter I'm going to move the pedal box as far away as I can, and lay the seat down a little. I'll wind up closer to the wheel in the gut, about the same at the shoulders, and I should be able to increase the side support a bit. My aim is to get down out of the air a bit and get my back relaxed a little. I tend to get backaches after long drives. -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Entriken [mailto:rocky@tri.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 12:33 AM To: Group44TR7@aol.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Recommended Seat Position Well, the first reaction I'd have is that aircraft experience does not apply here. I have a bit of Av background also -- my military time was in Navy Aviation (no I did not fly, but I was around those who did), and my baby brother is an F1 air racer. Our cars don't pull the g-loads a jet pilot encounters. In fact, that jet pilot's g-loads tend to be vertical as he is tilted almost 90 degrees over when doing a fast, tight, high-load turn. It's also why they wear G-suits, to prevent the blood from rushing out of the brain and into their legs and making them black out. Not a problem we encounter much. Our G-loads are lateral, and the Kirkey [not Kirby] is designed exactly for that. Said pilot is also generally flying with an arm position that has his elbows by his ribcage, a very relaxed position. A race car's steering wheel tends to be roughly chest-high while the jet pilot's joystick is down around his navel. So we tend to sit reaching out to the wheel. My old seat had me reaching so far my arms were almost straight out. Virtually all leverage of turning the steering wheel was in the shoulder muscles (I was younger then too!). Now my upper and lower arms are almost 90 degrees at the elbow, and I have better leverage turning the wheel using arm muscles. Look at an in-car at a NASCAR race. They sit so close they often have their elbow ON the wheel, giving them even more leverage as they turn the car. These are guys who are in their car 3-4 hours at a time, not a half hour like we do, so they have really studied how to last that long while conserving energy. That seating position is a major aspect of that, and those guys sit straight up. Open-wheel racers (F1, CART IRL) tend to be more straight-arm, but their wheel takes a one-inch turn to get around most corners. The G-loads our Spitfires generate are closer to Piper Cub than F18. So that is of negligible concern to us. Comfort and leverage are much more important. That said, the real factors determining whether your seat should be straight up or tilted back has to do with two aspects -- how far your hands reach to the wheel (you want an arms-bent position) and how far your legs reach to the pedals (you want pedal to the metal - gas & clutch -- at full extension but without going tippytoe to do it). For me to maintain the arm position I now want, to have the seat tilted would mean moving it forward and that would cause me to sit bowlegged (which I already do slightly anyway). In my case, it is as if the back of the seat were located in the same place (old seat vs. new) but I rotated the upper portion forward. Thus my legs/lower body are no closer but my arms/upper body are. When we installed my Kirkey, first thing we did was just put it on the flor of the car, loose, and I sat in it at various positions until I decided what was comfortable and best leverage. Then we marked where it was and drilled the bolt holes. --Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: rocky@tri.net Cc: fot@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:32 PM Subject: Recommended Seat Position Rocky I found your comment about the physical position of the seat (level on the floor) to be very interesting. It was very recently recommended to me that I have a new seat inclined slightly backward. The person giving the recommendation, who has aircraft experience, says that combat pilots seats are inclined backward because it is a better position for a person body under the stress of high speed turns. Does the Kirby, by design, already has some inclination in it when position on the floor? Or should I be seeking some second opinions about the positioning of the seat. CP From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Russ Moore" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:37:56 -0400 Subject: RE: How I burned 32 gallons Mid-Ohio without the parking Nazis????????? No nightly patrols rousting people in the dead of night?? How can that be? Sure would be a refreshing change from the jack booted thugs cruising it during the SVRA events of past years, and likely it being a closed event there were no instances of items being stolen from trailers and motor homes, etc. either............................. I can put that kind of event on my schedule for next year. I pretty much dropped the SVRA one due to the behavior of the track staff two years ago. I have been treated like dog shi* in the past, but I refuse to pay for the privilege. Maybe I'm getting particular as the years roll on by! Maybe SVRA can get MO under better control at some point in the future and put some seat time back into the event. I hope so, it's a great facility. If John Harkness was involved, it's guaranteed to be a great event. He's one of the true gentlemen of Vintage Racing. It's folks like him that keep me going back to race each year. Great report folks! Time here to hunker down for the "White" season! Nutz! Russ Moore From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "SHANE Ingate" To: cj123@ofir.dk Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:42:16 -0400 Subject: Re: race seat Christian asked: >what kind of race seat fit in a spitfire, and is low enough so i wont get >problems with my head being above the roll bar ! >most seat are to wide or have to large "ears" I don't have a Spit, but ran into the same problems as you when looking for a seat for my TR6. The current Momo's, Corbeaus etc are too wide. However, I did find "early" model Corbeau Clubman seats, which not only fit well, but look right, without appearing too heavily bolstered for the small cockpit. I have a picture of them at http://triumph.hottr6.com/Body.html Shane Ingate in Maryland _________________________________________________________________ Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers. https://broadband.msn.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "jaboruch" To: "John Price" , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:27:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Tires Grassroots Motorsports did a review of these tires in their August 2003 issue. They list a 205/50R-15, but not a 60 series. Joe(B) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Price" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: Tires > Amici: > > An acquaintance of mine in England says he has purchased Yokohama A032Rs in > size 205/60-15 for his race car. That's a big tire! The Yokohama website > doesn't list this as a size for that tire. Anyone know anything about this? > > John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Hugh Barber" To: "John Price" , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:05:52 -0700 Subject: RE: Tires > An acquaintance of mine in England says he has purchased Yokohama A032Rs in > size 205/60-15 for his race car. That's a big tire! The Yokohama website > doesn't list this as a size for that tire. Anyone know anything about this? John, It may be something as simple as a marketing/cost decision on the part of Yokohama. I have noticed that there are some tire sizes available overseas (Europe, Japan) that are not available in a DOT version in the USA. Hugh Barber Hollister, CA '73 TR6 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:50:39 EDT Subject: ViR 2004 Two things: FoT PATCHES FOR ViR Dean Tetterton (The Dean of Triumphs) sent me a FoT Logo Patch that is circular (thanks Dean). It is quite attractive, but I dont know who had these made up and Dean doesnt remember either. Anyone know? We would like to make these patches available to the folks coming to ViR. ViR LODGING I am working with a motel in Danville. It is brand new, the closest to the track, has all amenities, including an expanded continental breakfast. It is near a mall, a very good restaurant, and an Autozone. It has free high speed internet access also. If I can get the price point down to about $60 per night, how many folks are interested? I need about 20 rooms blocked to get a price break. Raise your hands. No commitment required. I reviewed these facilities firsthand and was very impressed with them and the personnel. There are suites available as well. Thanks, Joe Alexander (for Event Chair Mike Jackson) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" To: "Bob Buxbaum" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:14:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Joining FOT anyone autocrossing TR8's on the fot? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Buxbaum To: Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:56 PM Subject: Joining FOT > I have a 1970 GT6+ (stock), a 1980 TR8 DHC, and am combining a TR7 FHC and > a TR8 FHC (rust bucket donor car) as an autocross car. I would like to find > out more about FOT and find others autocrossing TR8's for more input. > > Bob and Mary Buxbaum > Chesapeake, Va. > > snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:02:23 -0700 Subject: RE: ViR 2004 Joe, If they are the ones that are on a gray background, that would be Ted Schumacher. Joe (C) -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:51 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: ViR 2004 Two things: FoT PATCHES FOR ViR Dean Tetterton (The Dean of Triumphs) sent me a FoT Logo Patch that is circular (thanks Dean). It is quite attractive, but I dont know who had these made up and Dean doesnt remember either. Anyone know? We would like to make these patches available to the folks coming to ViR. ViR LODGING I am working with a motel in Danville. It is brand new, the closest to the track, has all amenities, including an expanded continental breakfast. It is near a mall, a very good restaurant, and an Autozone. It has free high speed internet access also. If I can get the price point down to about $60 per night, how many folks are interested? I need about 20 rooms blocked to get a price break. Raise your hands. No commitment required. I reviewed these facilities firsthand and was very impressed with them and the personnel. There are suites available as well. Thanks, Joe Alexander (for Event Chair Mike Jackson) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Susan Kahler To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:31:41 -0500 Subject: Bob Totten -- list bomb, sorry! Sorry to bomb the list, all, but a friend is trying to get in touch with Bob Totten to ask him a question about his Le Mans bonnet. Bob, would you please contact Darrell? darrellmccracken@hotmail.com Thanks, Susan :) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Eells" To: , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:44:27 -0700 Subject: RE: ViR 2004 I think it was Ted Schumacher??? <> From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jim Hill" To: "Joe Curry" , "'FOT'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:34:42 -0500 Subject: SCCA runoffs Television air dates Can I assume that the last three races (22-24) are actually being televised on Sunday, DECEMBER 14, rather than November 14 (which is a Friday)? Jim Hill Madison WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'FOT'" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:40 PM Subject: SCCA runoffs Television air dates > For the benefit of those who don't get the SCCA's SportsCar magazine > (your loss because you don't get to read Rocky's column), I am sending > the air times for the Valvoline runoffs held this year. They are on the > Speed Channel and all times are in the Eastern time zone, so adjust > accordingly. > > Race Class > Date Time > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > 1 CSR Sat. Nov. 22 12 pm > 2 Showroom Stock C Sat. Nov. 22 1 pm > 3 GP Sat. Nov. 22 2 pm > 4 Formula Atlantic Sun. Nov. 23 12 pm > 5 Touring 2 Sun. Nov. 23 1 pm > 6 GT4 Sun. Nov. 23 2 pm > 7 Formula Mazda Sat. Nov. 29 12 pm > 8 GT2 Sat. Nov. 29 1 pm > 9 HP Sat. Nov. 29 2 pm > 10 Showroom Stock B Sun. Nov. 30 12 pm > 11 Formula 500 Sun. Nov. 30 1 pm > 12 Touring 1 Sun. Nov. 30 2 pm > 13 GT5 Sat. Dec. 6 12 pm > 14 American Sedan Sat. Dec. 6 1 pm > 15 Formula Ford Sat. Dec. 6 2 pm > 16 FP Sun. Nov. 7 12 pm > 17 DSR Sun. Nov. 7 1 pm > 18 Formula VEE Sun. Nov. 7 2 pm > 19 Sports 2000 Sat. Dec. 13 12 pm > 20 GT1 Sat. Dec. 13 1 pm > 21 EP Sat. Dec. 13 2 pm > 22 Spec Racer Ford Sun. Nov. 14 12 pm > 23 Formula Continental Sun. Nov. 14 1 pm > 24 GT3 Sun. Nov. 14 2 pm > > > Regards, > Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: GRMTim@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:57:12 EDT Subject: Bought a Berkeley While visiting Kip Motors in Dallas a couple of weeks ago I fell in love with the very rough but restorable 1958 Berkeley that he ahd out front. After you've had about six beers, this thing looks like a miniature 289 Cobra. It is bike powered and front wheel drive and will just about fit in the trunk of my TR3. Anybody know anything about these cars, or have a spare bike engine lying around. I was thinking of upping the power a bit from the original 2 cyl, 2 cycle Excelsior engine that came with it. I don't think I will race it. I am crazy enough to race a TR3, but not a Berkeley. Tim Suddard Publisher/Classic Motorsports/Grassroots Motorsports From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: GRMTim@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:49:57 EDT Subject: Re: ViR 2004 I just talked to Julie Allen at VIR and signed up to attend, race and have a booth. We also have some track and skid pad time before the event to do some type of story. I wonder what you guys might like to read about? I wonder what kind of cars there will be a lot of at VIR next year? Could it be Triumph? Tim Suddard Publisher/Classic Motorsports/Grassroots Motorsports From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:47:37 EDT Subject: Camping & Access at ViR - June 2004 ITC FoT ViR is Camper Friendly. Camping can be done in the paddock as you wish, or a family camping area that is set aside outside the paddock. We will have an area that includes trees grass, showers, eletrical hook ups and a view of the track, not to mention proximity to permantly Canopied False Grid. We will also have a 20 X 20 canopy donated by Julie Allen & ViR. This, along with the Pennyslvania Triumphs 20 X 20 tent, will provide a focal point for hospitality and a canopy for the Brits to work under, should this become necessary. I believe access to the track will be available on Wednesday (after track goes cold, if there is a corporate event or school going on) There is an optional test day on Thursday. If the Brits arrive earlier than Wednesday , there is space available for them and others to securely park rigs until the track is open to the Triumph gang and the other entrants. "If there is a heaven on earth, it is ViR" - Paul Newman Consult with ViR directly or visit their website virclub.com for the details. Get your entries in before the first of the year for discounted entry. Mike Jackson - Event Chair Joe Alexander-Coordinator From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Aaron Johnson" , , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:08:51 -0500 Subject: RE: race seat I just put a 17" Kirkey Intermediate seat in my Spit 1500. It seems to work just fine. I mounted it directly to the floor with some home-made brackets. The big "ears" don't interfere with closing the door. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Johnson [mailto:fpspitfire37@msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:46 PM To: cj123@ofir.dk; FOT Subject: Re: race seat Same for me. I use a kirkey intermediate at 17" wide. I am going to go back down to a 15" but run it with out the padding to get lower in the car. aaron From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:47:45 EDT Subject: 4.1:1 Gear set for TR3-6 FoT, New 4.1:1 R & P...contact me off list if you are interested. I'll wait a few days before putting it on the VTR Classifieds. Joe (A) N197tr4@cs.com From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "spitfiresuz@141.com" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:41:29 -0400 Subject: 1970 Spit Mk3 for sale in Dallas Hi all! In the course of our travails we have come across a 1970 (roundtail) Spit Mk3 in the Dallas area that needs a good home. The car is in pieces but is very restorable. It has rust-through in the normal places and will need sills and part of the floor pans replaced. It is complete (or very close) and this would be a great opportunity to make a Spit racer or restore the car to be a nice driver. The owner has come down off his original price of $1000 and now will take $700 for it. He has other nice new toys and a baby on the way, so he wants to find a good home for it. We offered $500, but he didn't want to go that low. We just have too many projects to be able to do anything with another Spit (just picked up about 2 1/2 TR4's last weekend), even if I have a huge soft spot in my heart (and wallet) for roundtail Spits. Someone give this little fellow a good home! We can possibly facilitate pick-up or give other help if necessary. Email me and I will be happy to send the seller's info to you. Keep Triumphing, Susan :) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:44:44 EDT Subject: Nomination of Bob Buxbaum Amici, I've been dealing with Bob for a couple years and he's always been a witty and knowledgeable enthusiast. I'll nominate him for FOT membership. Steve Smith > > >I have a 1970 GT6+ (stock), a 1980 TR8 DHC, and am combining a TR7 FHC and > >a TR8 FHC (rust bucket donor car) as an autocross car. I would like to > find > >out more about FOT and find others autocrossing TR8's for more input. > > > >Bob and Mary Buxbaum > >Chesapeake, Va. > > > >snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "tom strange" To: "FOT" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:02:48 -0700 Subject: Not Triumph, but ..... maybe???? I just got this insanity test from a friend. For those of you who have not seen it, give it a try. (It is at least car related....) I'm thinking anyone on this list who can use this test to prove themselves sane, should have an intensive dose of triumphs immediately..... just to bring them back to triumph reality.... have fun with it, & turn your speakers on before you go to the link. http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/insanity_test.htm From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" To: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:10:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: Joining FOT Amici, I've been dealing with Bob for a couple years and he's always been a witty and knowledgable enthusiast. I'll nominate him for FOT membership. Steve Smith >I have a 1970 GT6+ (stock), a 1980 TR8 DHC, and am combining a TR7 FHC and >a TR8 FHC (rust bucket donor car) as an autocross car. I would like to find >out more about FOT and find others autocrossing TR8's for more input. > >Bob and Mary Buxbaum >Chesapeake, Va. > >snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Jim Hill'" , "'FOT'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:58:14 -0700 Subject: RE: SCCA runoffs Television air dates You can! As you probably guessed, I did the old cut and paste to create the chart and forgot to edit the month on the last one. GOOD CATCH! Joe P.S. I changed the chart below! Race Class Date Time +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 CSR Sat. Nov. 22 12 pm 2 Showroom Stock C Sat. Nov. 22 1 pm 3 GP Sat. Nov. 22 2 pm 4 Formula Atlantic Sun. Nov. 23 12 pm 5 Touring 2 Sun. Nov. 23 1 pm 6 GT4 Sun. Nov. 23 2 pm 7 Formula Mazda Sat. Nov. 29 12 pm 8 GT2 Sat. Nov. 29 1 pm 9 HP Sat. Nov. 29 2 pm 10 Showroom Stock B Sun. Nov. 30 12 pm 11 Formula 500 Sun. Nov. 30 1 pm 12 Touring 1 Sun. Nov. 30 2 pm 13 GT5 Sat. Dec. 6 12 pm 14 American Sedan Sat. Dec. 6 1 pm 15 Formula Ford Sat. Dec. 6 2 pm 16 FP Sun. Nov. 7 12 pm 17 DSR Sun. Nov. 7 1 pm 18 Formula VEE Sun. Nov. 7 2 pm 19 Sports 2000 Sat. Dec. 13 12 pm 20 GT1 Sat. Dec. 13 1 pm 21 EP Sat. Dec. 13 2 pm 22 Spec Racer Ford Sun. Dec. 14 12 pm 23 Formula Continental Sun. Dec. 14 1 pm 24 GT3 Sun. Dec. 14 2 pm -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hill [mailto:jrhill@chorus.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 12:35 AM To: Joe Curry; 'FOT' Subject: SCCA runoffs Television air dates Can I assume that the last three races (22-24) are actually being televised on Sunday, DECEMBER 14, rather than November 14 (which is a Friday)? Jim Hill Madison WI From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: Gt6steve@aol.com, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:43:38 EDT Subject: Re: Nomination of Bob Buxbaum Can we assume that "Snap-On Bob" will join us at ViR next June? Joe (A) > Amici, > I've been dealing with Bob for a couple years and he's always been a witty > and knowledgeable enthusiast. I'll nominate him for FOT membership. > > Steve Smith > > > > > >I have a 1970 GT6+ (stock), a 1980 TR8 DHC, and am combining a TR7 FHC and > > >a TR8 FHC (rust bucket donor car) as an autocross car. I would like to > > find > > >out more about FOT and find others autocrossing TR8's for more input. > > > > > >Bob and Mary Buxbaum > > >Chesapeake, Va. > > > > > >snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Joe Curry'" , "'Jim Hill'" , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:23:15 -0700 Subject: RE: SCCA runoffs Television air dates Third time's the charm! Joe (C) -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:58 AM To: 'Jim Hill'; 'FOT' Subject: RE: SCCA runoffs Television air dates You can! As you probably guessed, I did the old cut and paste to create the chart and forgot to edit the month on the last one. GOOD CATCH! Joe P.S. I changed the chart below! Race Class Date Time +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 CSR Sat. Nov. 22 12 pm 2 Showroom Stock C Sat. Nov. 22 1 pm 3 GP Sat. Nov. 22 2 pm 4 Formula Atlantic Sun. Nov. 23 12 pm 5 Touring 2 Sun. Nov. 23 1 pm 6 GT4 Sun. Nov. 23 2 pm 7 Formula Mazda Sat. Nov. 29 12 pm 8 GT2 Sat. Nov. 29 1 pm 9 HP Sat. Nov. 29 2 pm 10 Showroom Stock B Sun. Nov. 30 12 pm 11 Formula 500 Sun. Nov. 30 1 pm 12 Touring 1 Sun. Nov. 30 2 pm 13 GT5 Sat. Dec. 6 12 pm 14 American Sedan Sat. Dec. 6 1 pm 15 Formula Ford Sat. Dec. 6 2 pm 16 FP Sun. Dec. 7 12 pm 17 DSR Sun. Dec. 7 1 pm 18 Formula VEE Sun. Dec. 7 2 pm 19 Sports 2000 Sat. Dec. 13 12 pm 20 GT1 Sat. Dec. 13 1 pm 21 EP Sat. Dec. 13 2 pm 22 Spec Racer Ford Sun. Dec. 14 12 pm 23 Formula Continental Sun. Dec. 14 1 pm 24 GT3 Sun. Dec. 14 2 pm -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hill [mailto:jrhill@chorus.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 12:35 AM To: Joe Curry; 'FOT' Subject: SCCA runoffs Television air dates Can I assume that the last three races (22-24) are actually being televised on Sunday, DECEMBER 14, rather than November 14 (which is a Friday)? Jim Hill Madison WI From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Fubog1@aol.com To: Gt6steve@aol.com, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:30:04 EDT Subject: Re: Nomination of Bob Buxbaum In a message dated 10/23/03 9:45:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gt6steve@aol.com writes: > Amici, > I've been dealing with Bob for a couple years and he's always been a witty > and knowledgeable enthusiast. I'll nominate him for FOT membership. > > Steve Smith Hey I'll second Bobs nomination, he has at least one REAL Triumph.... Also BTW did Mike Perry (GT-6 fame) ever get on the list? Steve nominated him a few months ago & I seconded it. Glen Efinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: GRMTim@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:06:14 -0700 Subject: RE: Bought a Berkeley Weird little cars, there's a guy who runs one at Monterey--for as long as he can keep it together. I think they would be very cool with a more modern engine. If I owned it I'd put in one of Kenny Dreer's new Norton Commando 952 engines, which are all new, made in the USA, but still look like a Norton engines. -----Original Message----- From: GRMTim@aol.com [mailto:GRMTim@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 3:57 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Bought a Berkeley While visiting Kip Motors in Dallas a couple of weeks ago I fell in love with the very rough but restorable 1958 Berkeley that he ahd out front. After you've had about six beers, this thing looks like a miniature 289 Cobra. It is bike powered and front wheel drive and will just about fit in the trunk of my TR3. Anybody know anything about these cars, or have a spare bike engine lying around. I was thinking of upping the power a bit from the original 2 cyl, 2 cycle Excelsior engine that came with it. I don't think I will race it. I am crazy enough to race a TR3, but not a Berkeley. Tim Suddard Publisher/Classic Motorsports/Grassroots Motorsports From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Matthew Wilder" To: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:14:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley I'd stuff in a 1200cc and go import drag racing ;-) Matthew Wilder My webpage: http://home.webryders.com/teamwild/ HOST slot racers: http://www.hostinghelps.com/hostclub/ > While visiting Kip Motors in Dallas a couple of weeks ago I fell in love with > the very rough but restorable 1958 Berkeley that he ahd out front. After > you've had about six beers, this thing looks like a miniature 289 Cobra. It is > bike powered and front wheel drive and will just about fit in the trunk of my TR3. > > Anybody know anything about these cars, or have a spare bike engine lying > around. I was thinking of upping the power a bit from the original 2 cyl, 2 cycle > Excelsior engine that came with it. I don't think I will race it. I am crazy > enough to race a TR3, but not a Berkeley. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher/Classic Motorsports/Grassroots Motorsports From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:29:24 EDT Subject: Sleep Inn - Inn & Suites in Danville, VA FoT, it is official!!! We have an official "Triumph Host Hotel". We have 40 Sleep-Inn rooms blocked off 8-13 June 2004. It is understood that there will be different arrival dates and potentially different departure dates. The rooms are a mix of configurations, including two suites. The Regular Rooms were negotiated at $60 from $79 and the Suites are two room suites were quoted at $112 from $149. Two TVs, micro wave, refrigerator, King size bed and hide a bed couch are some features of the Suites, including high speed internet in all rooms. Pool, Hot Tub, etc. Continental Breakfast with fresh fruit, three juices, and hot sausages. Call "Vicki" at 434.793.6090 GROUP SALES MANAGER Mention "Friends Of Triumph" during reservation process. We will check on reservation status in a few weeks before we release this information to the "Big Triumph List". Do it now!....your call is expected. Mike Jackson - Event Chair Joe Alexander - FoT Coordinator From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: BillB@bnj.com, GRMTim@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:36:06 EDT Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley In a message dated 10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB@bnj.com writes: > Subj:RE: Bought a Berkeley > Date:10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time > From:BillB@bnj.com > To:GRMTim@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net > Sent from the Internet > > > > Weird little cars, there's a guy who runs one at Monterey--for as long as > he can keep it together. I think they would be very cool with a more > modern engine. If I owned it I'd put in one of Kenny Dreer's new Norton > Commando 952 engines, which are all new, made in the USA, but still look > like a Norton engines. > Amici: Mike Belfer had one. I think it had an Excelsior (sp?) engine. Little bitty thing. Somewhere I've got a picture of me sitting in it at ROAD AMERICA. I appear somewhat larger than the car, and we stuck two rubber boots in the headlamp holes, so it looks like my feet are sticking out. At the time there was a dozen or so similar that were racing vintage. All Greek to me, but they had names like Deutsche Bonnet (sp?). I think there were several Crosley Hot Shots in the group too. They have not been back for a while. Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:45:21 EDT Subject: ViR Gold Cup Entries for 11-13June 2004 FoT, There are Gold Cup hard copy entries available for the asking through the website (virclub.com) or by calling 434.822.7700. Julie Allen has many of the names and addresses of those who expressed an interest in entering, so it should be an easy call. Remember there is an optional practice/test on Thursday for those who desire the extra track time. Discounted entries for those who enter before Jan. 1st 2004. Qualified drivers may share one car, but the Thursday Practice Day is recommended so that both drivers can get adequate exposure to the track prior to qualifying or race. Questions regarding driver & car qualification should be directed to Peter Krause. Best Regards, Mike Jackson - ITC Event Chair Joe Alexander- FoT Coordinator From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Michael D. Porter" To: GRMTim@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:06:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley GRMTim@aol.com wrote: > While visiting Kip Motors in Dallas a couple of weeks ago I fell in love with > the very rough but restorable 1958 Berkeley that he ahd out front. After > you've had about six beers, this thing looks like a miniature 289 Cobra. It is > bike powered and front wheel drive and will just about fit in the trunk of my TR3. > > Anybody know anything about these cars, or have a spare bike engine lying > around. I was thinking of upping the power a bit from the original 2 cyl, 2 cycle > Excelsior engine that came with it. I don't think I will race it. I am crazy > enough to race a TR3, but not a Berkeley. Tim, someone on the Triumphs list mentioned a Berkeley a while back, so I posted the above over there. Cheers. -- Michael D. Porter Roswell, NM [mailto:mporter@zianet.com] Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: , , , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:19:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley The next thing someone will be trying to race a Lloyd. Bring a magnet if you do 'cause it's then easier to pick up the pieces (small). ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley > In a message dated 10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time, > BillB@bnj.com writes: > > > > Subj:RE: Bought a Berkeley > > Date:10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time > > From:BillB@bnj.com > > To:GRMTim@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > Weird little cars, there's a guy who runs one at Monterey--for as long as > > he can keep it together. I think they would be very cool with a more > > modern engine. If I owned it I'd put in one of Kenny Dreer's new Norton > > Commando 952 engines, which are all new, made in the USA, but still look > > like a Norton engines. > > > > Amici: > > Mike Belfer had one. I think it had an Excelsior (sp?) engine. Little bitty > thing. Somewhere I've got a picture of me sitting in it at ROAD AMERICA. I > appear somewhat larger than the car, and we stuck two rubber boots in the > headlamp holes, so it looks like my feet are sticking out. At the time there was > a dozen or so similar that were racing vintage. All Greek to me, but they had > names like Deutsche Bonnet (sp?). I think there were several Crosley Hot > Shots in the group too. They have not been back for a while. > > Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Michael" To: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:26:22 +0200 Subject: Le Mans Spitfire wheels for sale Hi folks, I pushed Mark from Jigsaw Racing Services to remanufacture a batch of Le Mans wheels. They are already under production and will be finished during the next weeks. The wheels are made by Compomotive, a well known wheel manufacturer. They come in 5.5 inch size and made to the original spec. of the Le Mans wheel. As my original 40 year old set is made of magnesium I can't use them any more for serious racing. These wheels are made of aluminium and coming with all necessary fittings. The price is not much higher than for a good set of other aluminium wheels. The works car owners have already bought one or two sets and some people here in Europe. A few sets are left, so if anyone is interested you can reach Mark at: mark@jigsaw-racing.freeserve.co.uk I have a picture of the wheel on my website. cheers Michael Moenstermann From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bob Kramer" To: , "Tom Strange" , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:20:42 -0500 Subject: HCTC auction of Matt Baker's stuff fyi Item # Start Price Current Price Reserve Price Qty Available # of Bids Start Date ( PST ) End Date Time Left Create Listing Triumph TR8 5 speed manual transmission TR7? 2438827937 $100.00 $200.00 $200.00 1 3 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:32:40 5d 5h 24m Sell Similar Triumph TR8 engine, also Rover, MGB V8 2438829031 $100.00 $200.00 $200.00 1 3 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:39:11 5d 5h 31m Sell Similar Triumph Spitfire Cosmic Wheels set of 4 2438829789 $100.00 $100.00 $200.00 1 1 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:44:11 5d 5h 36m Sell Similar Triumph Spitfire Overdrive Transmission Jtype 2438830283 $100.00 $200.00 $200.00 1 1 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:47:39 5d 5h 39m Sell Similar Triumph Spitfire 1500 project or parts car 2438831799 $100.00 $112.50 $500.00 1 2 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:57:11 5d 5h 49m Sell Similar [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of ascend_10x5.gif] [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of spacer.gif] From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Friends of Triumph Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:32:21 -0700 Subject: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers Here's two aluminum spacers that raise the height of the front springs on a TR 4, etc. They're 5/8" thick. If you like your front springs, but don't like the ride height, maybe this is the cheap answer. $5.00 plus shipping. --Justin From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Friends of Triumph Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:54:21 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers] I wasn't very descriptive... They're cast aluminum. I believe they came off a TR 4A parts car, but I don't remember. --Justin -------- Original Message -------- Subject: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:32:21 -0700 From: J M Wagner Reply-To: J M Wagner To: Friends of Triumph Here's two aluminum spacers that raise the height of the front springs on a TR 4, etc. They're 5/8" thick. If you like your front springs, but don't like the ride height, maybe this is the cheap answer. $5.00 plus shipping. --Justin From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Triumph List , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:23:44 -0700 Subject: TR 4A type bonnet hinges for sale Well, when someone called for a pair of these a few weeks or months back, I searched for this extra pair and I just couldn't find them! Today I found 'em in the bottom of a box of personal papers! This is a pair of TR 4A type bonnet hingers (TR 4, etc.) that are in good condition. The paint is nasty and there is some rust, but the metal looks to be quite solid and I think most of the texture on these is just a build up of paint, grease, and grime, as opposed to actual metal damage from corrosion. Subsequently, I believe they would clean up to a fairly good standard. They came off a california parts car. $6.00 plus shipping... --Justin Wagner From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:41:45 -0500 Subject: Re: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers] FOT, Somewhat related question. Our race group recently agreed to allow threaded collar adjustable coil-overs on 240Z's and other cars with 1972 rules. The 240Z guys proved that BRE and Sharp were making these and fitting them under the spring perch in the struts and that the SCCA made a rule change around 1971 to allow for such a thing, albeit only on MacPherson Strut cars. Nevertheless, it brings to mind that the idea of a threaded spring spacer under the TR springs front and rear on a TR4A/6 would allow for some corner weight suspension tuning. Of course, one would have to replace the adjustable spacers with fixed units once the ideal settings were found to maintain legality. Has anyone done this? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "J M Wagner" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 3:54 PM Subject: [Fwd: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers] > I wasn't very descriptive... They're cast aluminum. I believe they > came off a TR 4A parts car, but I don't remember. > > --Justin > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:32:21 -0700 > From: J M Wagner > Reply-To: J M Wagner > To: Friends of Triumph > > > > Here's two aluminum spacers that raise the height of the front springs > on a TR 4, etc. They're 5/8" thick. > If you like your front springs, but don't like the ride height, maybe > this is the cheap answer. > > $5.00 plus shipping. > > --Justin From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: Bob Kramer , Friends of Triumph Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:03:23 -0700 Subject: RE: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers] Yup. It's easy to build jackers into a TR3/4 lower spring plate, and that's the easiest way to set ride height and corner weight. Put in the bolts, jack to suit, take off the plate, measure the thread depth, take out the bolts and stick in shims. I didn't bother making adjusters for the rear springs, I just made three different shackle sets so I could swap them around. Unfortunately after I did the work I found out that Peyote is 50/50 by 50/50 front to back and diagonal with me standing in the seat. Apparently Pat Starr new exactly what I weigh today when he restored the car 14 years ago. Remarkable guy. Still, I used the jack screws to set the car flat so I could baseline all the suspension measurements and set up the bump steer. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kramer [mailto:rgk@flash.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:42 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers] FOT, Somewhat related question. Our race group recently agreed to allow threaded collar adjustable coil-overs on 240Z's and other cars with 1972 rules. The 240Z guys proved that BRE and Sharp were making these and fitting them under the spring perch in the struts and that the SCCA made a rule change around 1971 to allow for such a thing, albeit only on MacPherson Strut cars. Nevertheless, it brings to mind that the idea of a threaded spring spacer under the TR springs front and rear on a TR4A/6 would allow for some corner weight suspension tuning. Of course, one would have to replace the adjustable spacers with fixed units once the ideal settings were found to maintain legality. Has anyone done this? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "J M Wagner" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 3:54 PM Subject: [Fwd: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers] > I wasn't very descriptive... They're cast aluminum. I believe they > came off a TR 4A parts car, but I don't remember. > > --Justin > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: TR 4, 4A, etc. FRont Spring Spacers > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:32:21 -0700 > From: J M Wagner > Reply-To: J M Wagner > To: Friends of Triumph > > > > Here's two aluminum spacers that raise the height of the front springs > on a TR 4, etc. They're 5/8" thick. > If you like your front springs, but don't like the ride height, maybe > this is the cheap answer. > > $5.00 plus shipping. > > --Justin From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin@aol.com, GRMTim@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:18:00 -0700 Subject: RE: Bought a Berkeley Very close, I'm impressed at your memory, geezer. Deutsch-Bonnet, best referred to as D-B to avoid the unfortunate Douche Bag reference, are French cars, and look it. Crosley hotshots were made by the refrigerator and other appliance guys, and look it. Not to be confused with the Muntz cars, made by madman muntz (and look it). I'd pay to see that picture. _____ From: BillDentin@aol.com [mailto:BillDentin@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:36 AM To: Bill Babcock; GRMTim@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley In a message dated 10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB@bnj.com writes: Subj:RE: Bought a Berkeley Date:10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time From:BillB@bnj.com To:GRMTim@aol.com , fot@autox.team.net Sent from the Internet Weird little cars, there's a guy who runs one at Monterey--for as long as he can keep it together. I think they would be very cool with a more modern engine. If I owned it I'd put in one of Kenny Dreer's new Norton Commando 952 engines, which are all new, made in the USA, but still look like a Norton engines. Amici: Mike Belfer had one. I think it had an Excelsior (sp?) engine. Little bitty thing. Somewhere I've got a picture of me sitting in it at ROAD AMERICA. I appear somewhat larger than the car, and we stuck two rubber boots in the headlamp holes, so it looks like my feet are sticking out. At the time there was a dozen or so similar that were racing vintage. All Greek to me, but they had names like Deutsche Bonnet (sp?). I think there were several Crosley Hot Shots in the group too. They have not been back for a while. Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: Matthew Wilder , fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:20:52 -0700 Subject: RE: Bought a Berkeley Oooh, good thought. Hey Tim, buy it and let's stick in a hopped up 1500 cc Hayabusa motor like the SR3 Radicals use. It's be a piece of cake. 230 horsepower, reliable, light, and completely uncontrollable. Sound right up the GRM alley. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Wilder [mailto:mwilder@webryders.net] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:15 AM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley I'd stuff in a 1200cc and go import drag racing ;-) Matthew Wilder My webpage: http://home.webryders.com/teamwild/ HOST slot racers: http://www.hostinghelps.com/hostclub/ > While visiting Kip Motors in Dallas a couple of weeks ago I fell in > love with > the very rough but restorable 1958 Berkeley that he ahd out front. > After you've had about six beers, this thing looks like a miniature 289 Cobra. It is > bike powered and front wheel drive and will just about fit in the > trunk of my TR3. > > Anybody know anything about these cars, or have a spare bike engine > lying around. I was thinking of upping the power a bit from the > original 2 cyl, 2 cycle > Excelsior engine that came with it. I don't think I will race it. I am crazy > enough to race a TR3, but not a Berkeley. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher/Classic Motorsports/Grassroots Motorsports From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "R. John Lye" To: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:53:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Joining FOT At 08:14 PM 10/22/03 -0700, Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC wrote: >anyone autocrossing TR8's on the fot? I've autocrossed a friend's slightly modified street TR-8 a few times, and will probably do so again at the VTR National in Richmond next summer. R. John Lye rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "R. John Lye" To: N197TR4@cs.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:02:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Camping & Access at ViR - June 2004 ITC At 08:47 AM 10/23/03 -0400, N197TR4@cs.com wrote: >FoT > >ViR is Camper Friendly. Camping can be done in the paddock as you wish, or a >family camping area that is set aside outside the paddock. I'd like to mention that the facilities at VIR are really first rate - two sets of showers, even! Also, electrical hookups throughout most of the paddock. Later, R. John Lye rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Walt Hollowell To: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:15:51 -0600 Subject: 1974 TR6 FOUND!!!! IMPORTANT FIND IN NEW MEXICO 1974 TR6 Serial number CF29168U I have been on the trail of a 1974 TR6 for two years that has been tied up in an estate problem. It has been locked up in a storage locker since 1991. It has now been released and I have purchased it along with a clean New Mexico title. (this is my third TR6 barn find this year along with many truckloads of TR6/250 parts) The car looks rough but it is an original, sold in New Mexico car. There is minor (and a little not-so minor) body damage but no rust. The carpeting, upholstery, seat foam, dashboard and top will all need replaced. The color is light tan or cream (paint code 19 with trim 11). The speedometer shows 22,507 miles so this is most likely plus 100K but no more than that. The undercarriage is solid. Again, no rust or stuctural damage. The engine turns over easily and with starting fluid fires and runs. The carbs and fuel pump need rebuilt and of course all the fuel lines shold be replaced etc. etc. etc. This TR6 can be pushed onto a trailer but is not a driver at this time. I am offering this car for sale in its present condition F.O.B. Albuquerque, New Mexico for the next few days at a price of $2,500.00 Beyond that time I have three options. 1. Part the car out. (Not my first option because this car offers lots of potential but parting it out would most likely generate the most renevue. 2. List it on ebay as a project car. I'll list on Sunday afternoon 10,26,03 if not sold to a FOT member prior to that time. 3. Do a major restoration this winter then sell for a high price via Hemmings or ebay for spring driving. If you know anyone who might be interested I have a mess of pictures and more details available upon request. Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "R. John Lye" To: GRMTim@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:57:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley At 06:57 AM 10/23/03 -0400, GRMTim@aol.com wrote: >While visiting Kip Motors in Dallas a couple of weeks ago I fell in love with >the very rough but restorable 1958 Berkeley that he ahd out front. After >you've had about six beers, this thing looks like a miniature 289 Cobra. >It is >bike powered and front wheel drive and will just about fit in the trunk of >my TR3. They're pretty neat little cars - I came close to buying one about 12 years ago or so. >Anybody know anything about these cars, or have a spare bike engine lying >around. I was thinking of upping the power a bit from the original 2 cyl, >2 cycle >Excelsior engine that came with it. I don't think I will race it. I am crazy >enough to race a TR3, but not a Berkeley. There's a guy who used to race one with RMVR, but I have no idea if he's still doing so. As I recall, he was using a Honda M/C engine. I can't remember his name, but might be able to find it if you need it. Have fun, R. John Lye rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Eells" To: "Friends Of Triumph" , Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:56:50 -0700 Subject: Sports Coil Mania... Wow... A lot of money to get that original look...I have a half a dozen of these in the parts box...time for an Ebay sale! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=34202 &item=2437510926 Brad 62 TR4 65 TR4A - with original Sports Coil! From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Herald948@aol.com To: bradlnss@lightspeed.net, fot@autox.team.net, triumphs@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:40:37 EDT Subject: Re: Sports Coil Mania... In a message dated 10/23/2003 9:57:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bradlnss@lightspeed.net writes: Wow... A lot of money to get that original look...I have a half a dozen of these in the parts box...time for an Ebay sale! Wow is right, Brad! Too bad I've only two of these, and I really don't want to get rid of them. On the other hand, I've two kids headed for college someday... :-) Reminds me of the run of "genuine Lucas sealed beam" headlamps that hit eBay a couple years ago. A couple pairs went for upwards of $150 or so, but then it tapered off somewhat...well before I could round up any to auction! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse) and Herald Database! From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "dos_gusanos" To: "R. John Lye" , , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:06:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley I think his name is John Burnham and he had a collection of oddball front wheel drive racecars............I think he's still around............Henry Morrison, Albuquerque ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. John Lye" To: ; Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley > At 06:57 AM 10/23/03 -0400, GRMTim@aol.com wrote: > >While visiting Kip Motors in Dallas a couple of weeks ago I fell in love with > >the very rough but restorable 1958 Berkeley that he ahd out front. After > >you've had about six beers, this thing looks like a miniature 289 Cobra. > >It is > >bike powered and front wheel drive and will just about fit in the trunk of > >my TR3. > > They're pretty neat little cars - I came close to buying one about 12 years > ago or so. > > >Anybody know anything about these cars, or have a spare bike engine lying > >around. I was thinking of upping the power a bit from the original 2 cyl, > >2 cycle > >Excelsior engine that came with it. I don't think I will race it. I am crazy > >enough to race a TR3, but not a Berkeley. > > There's a guy who used to race one with RMVR, but I have no idea if he's still > doing so. As I recall, he was using a Honda M/C engine. I can't remember > his name, but might be able to find it if you need it. > > Have fun, > > R. John Lye > > rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: KLynch7589@aol.com To: dos_gusanos@msn.com, rjl@gt-classics.com, GRMTim@aol.com, Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:57:36 EDT Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley Brian, The car in question runs with RMVR & is now in the Clive Averill collection . Kev Lynch GT6 Mk1 Be an organ donor! From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: VANDECARR@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:58:56 EDT Subject: Berkeley About 3 years ago I bought a 59 Berkeley. I too fell in love with the shape and the awesome possibilities. It's now sitting up on a shelf in my garage until I retire and have time to start another major project. It easily fits on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I'm thinking of putting in the drivetrain from the Legend series car. If anyone is interested there is a someone in Croton-on Hudson NY who is the president of the Berkeley club and is a good resource of information. Dean VanDeCarr From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Simon Rasmussen" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:37:59 -0400 Subject: Compression/advance curve Just tested my TR4a compression, readings 150,142,150,155 dry, and about 15psi more wet. I assume this is close enough not to require correction? Does anyone have suggestions how to set up my distributor advance curve (Lucas 25d) for a "fast road" car? I am wondering what springs to use and if I should disconnect the vacuum advance; I have 290 degree Kent cam with .310 lift (.450 at the valve), 1.75 H6 SUs with RG needles, header etc. Thanks for any suggestions, Simon. Regards, Simon Rasmussen Sales Manager - Telephones To Go Email: Simon@TelephonesToGo.ca Mobile: (416) 565-0031 Tel: (416) 650-0000 Fax: (416) 650-5751 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Walt Hollowell To: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:02:46 -0600 Subject: 1500cc engine & 4 speed transmission for sale I have a running 1500cc engine for sale on ebay item 2438867104 also a excellent condition 4 speed trans. ebay item 2438868233 these items were taken out of a 1976 MG Midget but they should work for a Spitfire if needed. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=2438867104 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=2438868233 Thanks Walt Hollowell Abq.,NM From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jim Gambony" To: "'Friends Of Triumph'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:22:27 -0500 Subject: RE: Sports Coil Mania... I like that... A picture of a lemon and an orange! :D I had one of the pagoda type coils on my Mini, until I discovered one more place an english car can leak oil from...... Cheers, Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Eells Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:57 PM To: Friends Of Triumph; Triumph Team. Net Subject: Sports Coil Mania... Wow... A lot of money to get that original look...I have a half a dozen of these in the parts box...time for an Ebay sale! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=34202 &item=2437510926 Brad 62 TR4 65 TR4A - with original Sports Coil! From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "R. John Lye" To: KLynch7589@aol.com, rjl@gt-classics.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:35:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley At 11:38 PM 10/23/03 -0400, KLynch7589@aol.com wrote: >The person in question is Clive Averill, RMVR. No, I know Clive, the person that I'm thinking of is older. John Something, maybe. He had a "Front Wheel Drive" museum, as I recall. In fact, to Kas' horror, I believe that he actually raced a Lloyd once or twice - I could be mis-remembering that, though. Anyway, we're talking early to mid-80's here with RMVR. Maybe all that trivia will jog someone's memory, R. John Lye rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "R. John Lye" To: "dos_gusanos" , "R. John Lye" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:36:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley At 06:06 AM 10/24/03 -0600, dos_gusanos wrote: >I think his name is John Burnham and he had a collection of oddball front >wheel drive racecars............I think he's still around............Henry >Morrison, Albuquerque That's it - thanks Henry! Later, R. John Lye rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: "R. John Lye" , , Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:17:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley I was the service manager when the Lloyd was introduced to the unspecting public in fact they had Red Foxx drive one for publicty and I hated to go to work a for a while...........#$%#@%$#%$% hrfghrggchfgr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. John Lye" To: ; ; Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley > At 11:38 PM 10/23/03 -0400, KLynch7589@aol.com wrote: > >The person in question is Clive Averill, RMVR. > > No, I know Clive, the person that I'm thinking of is older. John Something, > maybe. He had a "Front Wheel Drive" museum, as I recall. In fact, to Kas' > horror, I believe that he actually raced a Lloyd once or twice - I could be > mis-remembering that, though. Anyway, we're talking early to mid-80's > here with RMVR. > > Maybe all that trivia will jog someone's memory, > > R. John Lye > > rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:11:26 -0700 Subject: Fwd: GT6 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Dodd, Kelvin" To: "R. John Lye" , "dos_gusanos" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:14:13 -0700 Subject: RE: Bought a Berkeley Tim: Check out Page 19 of the November issue of Classic & Sports Car. Headline: Bonneville Chock Full of Speed Freaks. A Berkeley ran 284 mph driven by Bonner Denton, the Royal Enfield had been swapped for a twin Turbo Big Block Chevy! Just think what a write up for GRM : ) Kelvin. > > > At 06:06 AM 10/24/03 -0600, dos_gusanos wrote: > >I think his name is John Burnham and he had a collection of > oddball front > >wheel drive racecars............I think he's still > around............Henry > >Morrison, Albuquerque From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Teresa L Robinson To: rjl@gt-classics.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:06:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley Clive has the Berkeley that John Burnam drove in many RMVR events,and continues to bring it out on occasion.John was the former editor of RMVR's Apex magazine.He also had a Formula Jr.,powered by a BSA(250cc,I believe) single cylinder bike engine in the nose of the single seater.John passed it on to Ray Jones,who continues to race it with RMVR here in Colordo. Mark Robinson RMVR Spitfire #272 On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:35:24 -0400 "R. John Lye" writes: > At 11:38 PM 10/23/03 -0400, KLynch7589@aol.com wrote: > >The person in question is Clive Averill, RMVR. > > No, I know Clive, the person that I'm thinking of is older. John > Something, > maybe. He had a "Front Wheel Drive" museum, as I recall. In fact, > to Kas' > horror, I believe that he actually raced a Lloyd once or twice - I > could be > mis-remembering that, though. Anyway, we're talking early to > mid-80's > here with RMVR. > > Maybe all that trivia will jog someone's memory, > > R. John Lye > > rjl6n@cstone.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: KLynch7589@aol.com To: rjl@gt-classics.com, dos_gusanos@msn.com, GRMTim@aol.com, Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:18:00 EDT Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley Sorry... One more time, with specifics...... Clive has the car (Berkeley) John Burnahm used to own. Kevin Be an organ donor! From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Stutzman" To: "kas kastner" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:24:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley I once knew a guy named Lloyd. He had a properly waxed moustache but didn't drink beer so I didn't trust him. bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "kas kastner" To: ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley > The next thing someone will be trying to race a Lloyd. Bring a magnet if > you do 'cause it's then easier to pick up the pieces (small). > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley > > > > In a message dated 10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time, > > BillB@bnj.com writes: > > > > > > > Subj:RE: Bought a Berkeley > > > Date:10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time > > > From:BillB@bnj.com > > > To:GRMTim@aol.com, HREF="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > Weird little cars, there's a guy who runs one at Monterey--for as long > as > > > he can keep it together. I think they would be very cool with a more > > > modern engine. If I owned it I'd put in one of Kenny Dreer's new Norton > > > Commando 952 engines, which are all new, made in the USA, but still look > > > like a Norton engines. > > > > > > > Amici: > > > > Mike Belfer had one. I think it had an Excelsior (sp?) engine. Little > bitty > > thing. Somewhere I've got a picture of me sitting in it at ROAD AMERICA. > I > > appear somewhat larger than the car, and we stuck two rubber boots in the > > headlamp holes, so it looks like my feet are sticking out. At the time > there was > > a dozen or so similar that were racing vintage. All Greek to me, but they > had > > names like Deutsche Bonnet (sp?). I think there were several Crosley Hot > > Shots in the group too. They have not been back for a while. > > > > Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "michael cook" To: "Stutzman" , "kas kastner" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:41:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley I once knew a guy named Lloyd A perfect patient for Freud He raced a Berkeley Roughly and jerkeley So scared his intestines would void ----- Original Message ----- From: Stutzman Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:36 PM To: kas kastner Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley I once knew a guy named Lloyd. He had a properly waxed moustache but didn't drink beer so I didn't trust him. bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "kas kastner" To: ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley > The next thing someone will be trying to race a Lloyd. Bring a magnet if > you do 'cause it's then easier to pick up the pieces (small). > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley > > > > In a message dated 10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time, > > BillB@bnj.com writes: > > > > > > > Subj:RE: Bought a Berkeley > > > Date:10/23/2003 11:07:46 AM Central Daylight Time > > > From:BillB@bnj.com > > > To:GRMTim@aol.com, HREF="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > Weird little cars, there's a guy who runs one at Monterey--for as long > as > > > he can keep it together. I think they would be very cool with a more > > > modern engine. If I owned it I'd put in one of Kenny Dreer's new Norton > > > Commando 952 engines, which are all new, made in the USA, but still look > > > like a Norton engines. > > > > > > > Amici: > > > > Mike Belfer had one. I think it had an Excelsior (sp?) engine. Little > bitty > > thing. Somewhere I've got a picture of me sitting in it at ROAD AMERICA. > I > > appear somewhat larger than the car, and we stuck two rubber boots in the > > headlamp holes, so it looks like my feet are sticking out. At the time > there was > > a dozen or so similar that were racing vintage. All Greek to me, but they > had > > names like Deutsche Bonnet (sp?). I think there were several Crosley Hot > > Shots in the group too. They have not been back for a while. > > > > Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mark J. Bradakis" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:57:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley Was John Burnham the rather large fellow who had the "swingset" to assist in entry and exit of the car? mjb. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:10:44 -0700 Subject: Fwd: GT6 This note was on our local Phoenix area Triumph list. >From: RichAubert@aol.com >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:10:09 EDT >Subject: GT6 >To: members@dctra.org >X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6024 >Sender: members-owner@dctra.org >Reply-To: members@dctra.org > >I have an opportunity to purchase a 71 GT6 cheap, but don't want the >car. Just the seats and the dash. So I'm looking for help! I think I >can talk the owner into taking $500 for it. > >Anyone interested? > >Rich From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Susan and Jack Brooks" To: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:54:31 -0700 Subject: RE: Joining FOT - AutoXing a TR8 Mordy and Bob, I'm just getting started on setting my 8 up, but it's still at least a year off from the AutoX circuit. I've been running my TR3, but without major mods it's just not competitive. Jack Brooks 1960 TR3A street/AutoX 1980 TR8, barely-running - soon to be street/AutoX Covington, Washington 253-631-1184 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fot@autox.team.net > [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mordy > Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:14 PM > To: Bob Buxbaum > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Joining FOT > > > anyone autocrossing TR8's on the fot? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob Buxbaum > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:56 PM > Subject: Joining FOT > > > > I have a 1970 GT6+ (stock), a 1980 TR8 DHC, and am > combining a TR7 FHC > > and a TR8 FHC (rust bucket donor car) as an autocross car. I would > > like to > find > > out more about FOT and find others autocrossing TR8's for > more input. > > > > Bob and Mary Buxbaum > > Chesapeake, Va. > > > > snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "andrew stark" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:55:29 +0000 Subject: Engine failure From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: J M Wagner To: Triumph List , Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:50:57 -0700 Subject: Daylight Savings on Sunday - Not Triumph related Passing this along.... Don't forget to set your clocks! --Justin "I don't really care how time is reckoned so long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me that I am doing nothing of the kind.... At the back of the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of themselves." The Diary of Samuel Marchbanks, 1947, XIX, Sunday (by Robertson Davies) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "andrew stark" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:34:00 +0000 Subject: test engine message From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "John Price" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:03:25 -0600 Subject: Tires Amici: Wes Dayton has confirmed that Yokahama is selling 205/60-15 A032rs in Australia, so I must assume that my British acquaintance, Jim Baynum, wasn't kidding about buying them for his TVR Tuscan. They would work out to about 1/2" larger in diameter than the A008s. Now, how do we persuade Yokahama to sell them here? John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:48:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Tires We couldn't order it individually, but perhaps a tire dealer of reasonable size ? Tire Rack for instance who would order a shipppment for a group. if there is sufficient interest. md ----- Original Message ----- From: John Price To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 6:03 AM Subject: Tires > Amici: > > Wes Dayton has confirmed that Yokahama is selling 205/60-15 A032rs in > Australia, so I must assume that my British acquaintance, Jim Baynum, wasn't > kidding about buying them for his TVR Tuscan. They would work out to about > 1/2" larger in diameter than the A008s. Now, how do we persuade Yokahama to > sell them here? > > John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" , Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Tires Wouldn't it be easier to convince Bob Woodman, Sasco or Roger Kraus? Bob Kramer rkramer3@austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Tires > We couldn't order it individually, but perhaps a tire dealer of reasonable > size ? Tire Rack for instance who would order a shipppment for a group. if > there is sufficient interest. > md > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Price > To: Friends of Triumph > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 6:03 AM > Subject: Tires > > > > Amici: > > > > Wes Dayton has confirmed that Yokahama is selling 205/60-15 A032rs in > > Australia, so I must assume that my British acquaintance, Jim Baynum, > wasn't > > kidding about buying them for his TVR Tuscan. They would work out to about > > 1/2" larger in diameter than the A008s. Now, how do we persuade Yokahama > to > > sell them here? > > > > John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:47:05 EST Subject: Sptifire Parts Available FoT Spitfire Guys One front brake rotor One pair of front wheel bearings (late) One set of rear wheel bearing (late) One pair of Brass Front Trunnions (Sptifire?) All new and in original boxes. 1/2 of Moss List Price Joe (A) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bob Buxbaum To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:35:45 -0500 Subject: Parting out a TR8 coupe Hey people ......... I made a mistake and bought a project TR8 coupe from Cocoa, Fla. I am in Chesapeake, Va., and if anybody wants the body, it's free before I scrap it. It's pretty rusty. HOWEVER, I am accumulating a garage full of all the good parts. So, if anyone needs anything, drop me a line and I'll let you know if I have what you need. We'll dicker over price later. :-0 Bob and Mary Buxbaum Chesapeake, Va. snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Joe Curry" To: "'FOT'" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:23:19 -0700 Subject: Need 3.63 GT6 carrier urgently. Today, I shelled the pinion gear in my diff and since I have the final event of the year next Sunday for one of the local series, I urgently need a replacement. Anyone out there have a good candidate they can fly down to me quickly? I don't need the case or stub axles, only the part that mounts inside the main case. Thanks in advance, Joe (C) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:27:56 EST Subject: ViR Lodging Reminder Nail your resevation down now...you can always cancel. Sleep Inn @ Danville, VA Vicki (Group Sales) 434.793.6090 MENTION "FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH" FOR $60. Our event Chair, Mike Jackson, says this is the lowest rate he has seen in Danville...and it is a brand new hotel. Be advised, I am not making the reservation for you. I have had a couple people send me a message to "put them down" for a room. I just want to make sure there is no confusion about this. I DID negotiate a rate and blocked 40 rooms using my VISA card. Mike & Joe From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Teresa L Robinson To: mjb@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:41:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley John was a fairly large guy,but I don't believe he had such a unique mode of entry/exit.Perhaps someone else can clarify. Mark Robinson On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:57:57 -0600 "Mark J. Bradakis" writes: > Was John Burnham the rather large fellow who had the "swingset" to > assist > in entry and exit of the car? > > mjb. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: mlcooknj@msn.com, stutzman@adelphia.net, kaskas@cox.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:13:24 EST Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley In a message dated 10/24/2003 8:37:02 PM Central Standard Time, mlcooknj@msn.com writes: > I once knew a guy named Lloyd > A perfect patient for Freud > He raced a Berkeley > Roughly and jerkeley > So scared his intestines would void > Now THAT'S FUNNY! Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "Bob Kramer" , , Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:52:43 -0600 Subject: Update on eBay auction of Matt Baker's stuff Item # Start Price Current Price Reserve Price Qty Available # of Bids Start Date ( PST ) End Date Time Left Create Listing Triumph TR8 5 speed manual transmission TR7? 2438827937 $100.00 $292.00 $200.00 1 6 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:32:40 1d 8h 49m Sell Similar Triumph TR8 engine, also Rover, MGB V8 2438829031 $100.00 $392.00 $200.00 1 10 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:39:11 1d 8h 55m Sell Similar Triumph Spitfire Cosmic Wheels set of 4 2438829789 $100.00 $105.00 $200.00 1 2 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:44:11 1d 9h 0m Sell Similar Triumph Spitfire Overdrive Transmission Jtype 2438830283 $100.00 $305.00 $200.00 1 6 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:47:39 1d 9h 4m Sell Similar Triumph Spitfire 1500 project or parts car 2438831799 $100.00 $500.00 $500.00 1 7 Oct-21 Oct-28 16:57:11 1d 9h 13m Sell Similar Toyota : Celica Revise item price 2439213727 $100.00 $500.00 $750.00 1 2 Oct-23 Oct-30 16:39:53 3d 8h 56m Totals Start Price Current Price Reserve Price Total Qty # of Bids Auctions All items listed $600.00 $2,094.00 $2,050.00 6 33 Items that will sell $400.00 $1,489.00 $1,100.00 4 29 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" To: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:12:59 -0800 Subject: Fw: Greeting to Bob Tullius from Peter & Nancy Frohlich Someone out there have Bob T's email to forward this to him? Mordy ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Frohlich To: Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 8:33 AM Subject: Greeting to Bob Tullius from Peter & Nancy Frohlich Bob, Hope this e-mail gets to you. I just read the article on you in the November/December issue of Pilot Journal. For your information we are going back to Pittstown Point Landing, Crooked Island again this year; after Christmas through New Years. Last year was our second time back to Pittstown since our trips in the early 1980's. We had a good time and obviously feel it worth while to go back. If you remember, the December/January 2000/2001Christmas/New Years we ran into you at the customs office in Provo, Turks and Caicos. Congratulations and best wishes. Peter & Nancy Frohlich skyking1@starband.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Wes Dayton To: Friends of Triumph Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:51:14 +1100 Subject: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" Given I had opened my big mouth about this, I thought I'd better do some checking. I jut got off the phone with our Sydney Yokohama performance tire distributor and tried to see if we could figure out why these tires are available here but not in the U.S. His estimate was that they sell around 100-150 sets in this size aross Australia per year which is sufficient to justify importing them from Japan. I would be very surprised if the market in the U.S. wasn't much bigger than that; his estimate was that it's generally about ten times the size. What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing performance tires including the A032R? If that's so, maybe you're runninvg into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone needs to organise importing them. Can't think of any other reason that makes sense. Wes Dayton - Sydney From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Randall Young" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:34:27 -0800 Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's > quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing > performance tires including the A032R? I'm pretty sure that's the case, the Yokos sold in the USA are also made here. It's actually a separate company, Yokohama Tire corp instead of Yokohama Rubber Corp. http://www.yokohamatire.com I believe their headquarters are down the road a bit from me, in Fullerton CA. > If that's so, maybe you're runninvg > into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone > needs to organise importing them. Funny thing is, the 205/60-15 size doesn't seem to be listed even on the Japanese Yokohama website : http://www.yokohamatire.jp/yrc/japan/top.jsp Any idea what country they come from ? Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Wes Dayton To: Friends of Triumph Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:24:36 +1100 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" My local guy says they come from Japan. Wouldn't be the first thing that's made in Japan but not sold there. Unfortunately the Yokohame Australia website is "under construction". Wes Dayton On 28/10/03 1:34 PM, "Randall Young" wrote: >> What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's >> quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing >> performance tires including the A032R? > > I'm pretty sure that's the case, the Yokos sold in the USA are also made > here. It's actually a separate company, Yokohama Tire corp instead of > Yokohama Rubber Corp. > http://www.yokohamatire.com > I believe their headquarters are down the road a bit from me, in Fullerton > CA. > >> If that's so, maybe you're runninvg >> into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone >> needs to organise importing them. > > Funny thing is, the 205/60-15 size doesn't seem to be listed even on the > Japanese Yokohama website : > http://www.yokohamatire.jp/yrc/japan/top.jsp > > Any idea what country they come from ? > > Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: "Wes Dayton" , Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:12:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" I would think that the lack of DOT approval would keep Yokohama from producing that tire for sales here in the USA through the bigger vendors. Why can't we get a specialty tire supplier to import a container load and resell them? Bob Woodman, Roger Kraus, Sasco, are you listening? There is market for a 195-60-15 or 205-60-15 that is being ignored. I have the Dunlop 205-60-15 D84J's and I am unimpressed. I think the word is out on them. I would try the 032Rs if they came available, especially if they were 195's . Bob Kramer rkramer3@austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes Dayton" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 6:51 PM Subject: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > Given I had opened my big mouth about this, I thought I'd better do some > checking. I jut got off the phone with our Sydney Yokohama performance tire > distributor and tried to see if we could figure out why these tires are > available here but not in the U.S. > > His estimate was that they sell around 100-150 sets in this size aross > Australia per year which is sufficient to justify importing them from Japan. > I would be very surprised if the market in the U.S. wasn't much bigger than > that; his estimate was that it's generally about ten times the size. > > What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's > quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing > performance tires including the A032R? If that's so, maybe you're runninvg > into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone > needs to organise importing them. > > Can't think of any other reason that makes sense. > > Wes Dayton - Sydney From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Greg Solow" To: "Wes Dayton" , Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:00:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" About 3 years ago, when the A008 were first disappearing, I spoke to the Yoko performance tire distributor in Southern Ca. about a replacement. They told me about the A032r tires and sent me literature concerning them. What they have since told me is that the compounding is made for autocross use and is to soft for use a a road racing tire. They apparently work good for a couple of laps and then overheat and "go off". The source for this information and the best Yoko race tire distributor that I know of is Precision Tire Service Race Group in Southern Ca. Their phone # is 949 589-5394. They should have all the correct info. ] Regards, Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes Dayton" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:51 PM Subject: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > Given I had opened my big mouth about this, I thought I'd better do some > checking. I jut got off the phone with our Sydney Yokohama performance tire > distributor and tried to see if we could figure out why these tires are > available here but not in the U.S. > > His estimate was that they sell around 100-150 sets in this size aross > Australia per year which is sufficient to justify importing them from Japan. > I would be very surprised if the market in the U.S. wasn't much bigger than > that; his estimate was that it's generally about ten times the size. > > What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's > quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing > performance tires including the A032R? If that's so, maybe you're runninvg > into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone > needs to organise importing them. > > Can't think of any other reason that makes sense. > > Wes Dayton - Sydney From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: "Wes Dayton" , Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:45:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" I would think that the lack of DOT approval would keep Yokohama from producing that tire for sales here in the USA through the bigger vendors. Why can't we get a specialty tire supplier to import a container load and resell them? Bob Woodman, Roger Kraus, Sasco, are you listening? There is market for a 195-60-15 or 205-60-15 that is being ignored. I have the Dunlop 205-60-15 D84J's and I am unimpressed. I think the word is out on them. I would try the 032Rs if they came available, especially if they were 195's. Bob Kramer rkramer3@austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes Dayton" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:24 PM Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > My local guy says they come from Japan. Wouldn't be the first thing that's > made in Japan but not sold there. > > Unfortunately the Yokohame Australia website is "under construction". > > Wes Dayton > > On 28/10/03 1:34 PM, "Randall Young" wrote: > > >> What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's > >> quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing > >> performance tires including the A032R? > > > > I'm pretty sure that's the case, the Yokos sold in the USA are also made > > here. It's actually a separate company, Yokohama Tire corp instead of > > Yokohama Rubber Corp. > > http://www.yokohamatire.com > > I believe their headquarters are down the road a bit from me, in Fullerton > > CA. > > > >> If that's so, maybe you're runninvg > >> into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone > >> needs to organise importing them. > > > > Funny thing is, the 205/60-15 size doesn't seem to be listed even on the > > Japanese Yokohama website : > > http://www.yokohamatire.jp/yrc/japan/top.jsp > > > > Any idea what country they come from ? > > > > Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Fred & Mary Hodgson" To: "Teresa L Robinson" , Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:17:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley That was John the last couple of years that he raced. If my memory is correct, he was 76 when he finally hung up his racing suit for good. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: Teresa L Robinson Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 9:02 PM To: mjb@autox.team.net Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Bought a Berkeley John was a fairly large guy,but I don't believe he had such a unique mode of entry/exit.Perhaps someone else can clarify. Mark Robinson On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:57:57 -0600 "Mark J. Bradakis" writes: > Was John Burnham the rather large fellow who had the "swingset" to > assist > in entry and exit of the car? > > mjb. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:43:09 EST Subject: VARA Las Vegas SoCal FOT, RMVR and Amici, Hopefully you are all safe from the wildfires. Who's coming to Vegas? I hope to be at the track about 1:30 on Friday and will endeavor to secure our usual area. I know a couple of you are coming...who else? Steve From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "John Wilkins" To: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:31:11 -0800 Subject: Re: VARA Las Vegas The Spit will ready! Have a new tunig part to try out. See ya there Steve. John Wilkins "66 Triumph Spitfire #892 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: VARA Las Vegas > SoCal FOT, RMVR and Amici, > > Hopefully you are all safe from the wildfires. Who's coming to Vegas? I > hope to be at the track about 1:30 on Friday and will endeavor to secure our > usual area. I know a couple of you are coming...who else? Steve From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bob Buxbaum To: "BOB KRAMER" , Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:15:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" At 10:45 PM 10/27/2003, BOB KRAMER wrote: >I would think that the lack of DOT approval would keep Yokohama from >producing that tire for sales here in the USA through the bigger vendors. >Why can't we get a specialty tire supplier to import a container load and >resell them? Bob Woodman, Roger Kraus, Sasco, are you listening? There is >market for a 195-60-15 or 205-60-15 that is being ignored. I have the >Dunlop 205-60-15 D84J's and I am unimpressed. I think the word is out on >them. I would try the 032Rs if they came available, especially if they were >195's. > >Bob Kramer >rkramer3@austin.rr.com Hey everybody, what are the intended use for the 032Rs? Without DOT approval they will not be imported into the US for street use. Additionally, most sanctioning bodies do not allow non-DOT tires to be run in competition in classes that are not full race classes. Examples are Stock and Street Prepared in SCCA Solo 1 and 2, and many road race classes. I guess another question is why you would not 50 series tires with their inherent benefits. TireRack has 205/50x15 in A032R http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A032R and Kuhmo's in the VictorRacer series http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=VictoRacer+V700 . Both are 205's with no 195's. If these are for track or autocross use the Kumho's are the way to go as they are cheaper and have much better grip. Been there, done that, with the TR8 in A/SP Solo 2. Bob and Mary Buxbaum Chesapeake, Va. snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: Gt6steve@aol.com, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:22:08 EST Subject: Re: VARA Las Vegas The Jack & Joe Show will miss attending VARA in Las Vegas this year. We are traveling to San Francisco area this year. Joe > SoCal FOT, RMVR and Amici, > > Hopefully you are all safe from the wildfires. Who's coming to Vegas? I > hope to be at the track about 1:30 on Friday and will endeavor to secure our > usual area. I know a couple of you are coming...who else? Steve From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "BOB KRAMER" To: "Greg Solow" , Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:25:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" That sounds a lot like the Dunlop D84J. I have a problem with the fronts overheating at TWS and going off. The front right did the same thing at Hallet, too many hard lefts! OTOH, we have a lot of people running the 205-60-14 size A032r in MGB's and they seem to like them. I'm not sure if they are running the newer compound or the street compound, but I think it's the later since they have been running them for a couple of years. Bob Kramer rkramer3@austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Solow" To: "Wes Dayton" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:00 PM Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > About 3 years ago, when the A008 were first disappearing, I spoke to the > Yoko performance tire distributor in Southern Ca. about a replacement. They > told me about the A032r tires and sent me literature concerning them. What > they have since told me is that the compounding is made for autocross use > and is to soft for use a a road racing tire. They apparently work good for a > couple of laps and then overheat and "go off". The source for this > information and the best Yoko race tire distributor that I know of is > Precision Tire Service Race Group in Southern Ca. Their phone # is 949 > 589-5394. > They should have all the correct info. > ] Regards, > Greg > Solow > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wes Dayton" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:51 PM > Subject: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > > > > Given I had opened my big mouth about this, I thought I'd better do some > > checking. I jut got off the phone with our Sydney Yokohama performance > tire > > distributor and tried to see if we could figure out why these tires are > > available here but not in the U.S. > > > > His estimate was that they sell around 100-150 sets in this size aross > > Australia per year which is sufficient to justify importing them from > Japan. > > I would be very surprised if the market in the U.S. wasn't much bigger > than > > that; his estimate was that it's generally about ten times the size. > > > > What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's > > quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing > > performance tires including the A032R? If that's so, maybe you're runninvg > > into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone > > needs to organise importing them. > > > > Can't think of any other reason that makes sense. > > > > Wes Dayton - Sydney From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com, Gt6steve@aol.com, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:37:02 EST Subject: Re: VARA Las Vegas In a message dated 10/28/2003 6:23:23 AM Central Standard Time, N197TR4@cs.com writes: > The Jack & Joe Show will miss attending VARA in Las Vegas this year. > > We are traveling to San Francisco area this year. > > Geeez....you guys have been bunking together so long now that you pass up VEGAS for FRISCO. Figures. Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "jaboruch" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:15:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" I called Yokahama about using the A008 autocross tires on the track back in 1995 or 96. They said that if the tire temps stayed below 210degrees F (it has been a while, but I think that is the number they gave), that the tires will work well. At higher temps they would go off. Sounds like a similar situation with the new tires, pehaps Yokahama can give a number for the new tires. When I did use them for a time trial, temps stayed in the 180's and they worked fine. That was after a 20 minute practice session. In a race I would have likely been pushing harder, getting the tires hotter. Joe(B) ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB KRAMER" To: "Greg Solow" ; "Wes Dayton" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > That sounds a lot like the Dunlop D84J. I have a problem with the fronts > overheating at TWS and going off. The front right did the same thing at > Hallet, too many hard lefts! OTOH, we have a lot of people running the > 205-60-14 size A032r in MGB's and they seem to like them. I'm not sure if > they are running the newer compound or the street compound, but I think it's > the later since they have been running them for a couple of years. > Bob Kramer > rkramer3@austin.rr.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Solow" > To: "Wes Dayton" ; "Friends of Triumph" > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:00 PM > Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > > > > About 3 years ago, when the A008 were first disappearing, I spoke to the > > Yoko performance tire distributor in Southern Ca. about a replacement. > They > > told me about the A032r tires and sent me literature concerning them. What > > they have since told me is that the compounding is made for autocross use > > and is to soft for use a a road racing tire. They apparently work good for > a > > couple of laps and then overheat and "go off". The source for this > > information and the best Yoko race tire distributor that I know of is > > Precision Tire Service Race Group in Southern Ca. Their phone # is 949 > > 589-5394. > > They should have all the correct info. > > ] Regards, > > Greg > > Solow > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Wes Dayton" > > To: "Friends of Triumph" > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:51 PM > > Subject: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > > > > > > > Given I had opened my big mouth about this, I thought I'd better do some > > > checking. I jut got off the phone with our Sydney Yokohama performance > > tire > > > distributor and tried to see if we could figure out why these tires are > > > available here but not in the U.S. > > > > > > His estimate was that they sell around 100-150 sets in this size aross > > > Australia per year which is sufficient to justify importing them from > > Japan. > > > I would be very surprised if the market in the U.S. wasn't much bigger > > than > > > that; his estimate was that it's generally about ten times the size. > > > > > > What we did wonder was "are the U.S. tires manufactured locally"? It's > > > quite possible that Yokohama hsa a plant somewhere in the U.S. producing > > > performance tires including the A032R? If that's so, maybe you're > runninvg > > > into a case where they just don't make that size locally, and so someone > > > needs to organise importing them. > > > > > > Can't think of any other reason that makes sense. > > > > > > Wes Dayton - Sydney From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Randall Young" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:18:43 -0800 Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > I would think that the lack of DOT approval would keep Yokohama from > producing that tire for sales here in the USA through the bigger vendors. If the 60 series tires are not DOT approved for some reason, that might explain why they aren't sold here. Where in the US does one even buy a non-DOT tire ? Even the Hoosiers are DOT, AFAIK. Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Coffey, Jack" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:01:01 -0600 Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" DOT does not "approve" tires for sale. They establish certain criteria that tires must meet & manufacturer certifies tires have been tested to meet these standards - certification is done by molding "DOT" markings into tire sidewall As these tires must have been tested to Japan or European standards (JATMA or EU), I am sure they would meet DOT standards also. Yokohama has chosen not to test / certify to DOT - this is a marketing decision on their part. BTW non-DOT marked tires cannot be sold in USA for on-road usage (substantial fine for violation). Theoretically, Yoko could sell these non-DOT tires for race use only but this would be highly unlikely due to potential for on-road use & subsequent violation of law. Jack Coffey (Bridgestone/Firestone employee) -----Original Message----- From: Randall Young [mailto:Ryoung@navcomtech.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 9:19 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > I would think that the lack of DOT approval would keep Yokohama from > producing that tire for sales here in the USA through the bigger vendors. If the 60 series tires are not DOT approved for some reason, that might explain why they aren't sold here. Where in the US does one even buy a non-DOT tire ? Even the Hoosiers are DOT, AFAIK. Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "Coffey, Jack" , Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:32:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" Dunlop non-DOT tires are for sale here. Roger Kraus Racing web page says the following: "Dunlop 205/60HR15 Soft Compound Race Tyres Dunlop treaded tyres. Designed for Racing use, reduced tread depth, race compounds and construction. Note: The D84J is very close to the D93J Tread Pattern. This tire is not USA DOT legal but is European road legal. It will probably not be possible to get USA DOT approval for these tires. Reasons of cost were given to me when I inquired. For this reason these tires will be considered off road or race only tires even though they are not marked as such. These tires are made in U.K. The 50 Series tires are made in Japan by Dunlop." Again, I would think the specialty tire guys can import and resell them to us if they wanted to, and enough of us wanted them. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Coffey, Jack" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 10:01 AM Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > DOT does not "approve" tires for sale. They establish certain criteria > that tires must meet & manufacturer certifies tires have been tested to > meet these standards - certification is done by molding "DOT" markings > into tire sidewall > > As these tires must have been tested to Japan or European standards > (JATMA or EU), I am sure they would meet DOT standards also. Yokohama > has chosen not to test / certify to DOT - this is a marketing decision > on their part. > > BTW non-DOT marked tires cannot be sold in USA for on-road usage > (substantial fine for violation). Theoretically, Yoko could sell these > non-DOT tires for race use only but this would be highly unlikely due to > potential for on-road use & subsequent violation of law. > > Jack Coffey (Bridgestone/Firestone employee) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randall Young [mailto:Ryoung@navcomtech.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 9:19 AM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > > > I would think that the lack of DOT approval would keep Yokohama from > > producing that tire for sales here in the USA through the bigger > vendors. > > If the 60 series tires are not DOT approved for some reason, that might > explain why they aren't sold here. > > Where in the US does one even buy a non-DOT tire ? Even the Hoosiers > are > DOT, AFAIK. > > Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Randall Young" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:57:20 -0800 Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > As these tires must have been tested to Japan or European standards > (JATMA or EU), I am sure they would meet DOT standards also. Yokohama > has chosen not to test / certify to DOT - this is a marketing decision > on their part. Does anyone know for a fact that the A032R 205/60-15 are not certified/marked DOT ? The A032R tires that are sold here are so marked ... > Theoretically, Yoko could sell these > non-DOT tires for race use only but this would be highly unlikely due to > potential for on-road use & subsequent violation of law. Grrr, don't even want to think about how stupid our product liability laws are ! Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: Randall Young , Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:23:44 -0800 Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" Not that it matters much, but there are no real government certifications anymore. All these standards are simply testing specifications that the manufacturer must certify their products pass. Any manufacturer bears the full burden of product liability and testing. It's exactly as it should be (who wants nitwits in the government certifying anything?) except that there are cadres of lawyers waiting for some idiot to do something monumentally stupid with a product. "Well, it didn't say on the label that I shouldn't stick it up my..." We all groan when we see another ridiculous settlement, but we should be angry enough to demand a change, because it's our freedom that gets compromised, our choices that are reduced, and our money that is paying for settlements and such valuable results as warning labels on coffee that say it's hot. If a manufacturer doesn't expect a market will be lucrative enough to pay for the risk of liability, they won't sell in that market. There are all kinds of useful products that are available in the rest of the world that are not available in the USA. Guess why. -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Young Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:57 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > As these tires must have been tested to Japan or European standards > (JATMA or EU), I am sure they would meet DOT standards also. Yokohama > has chosen not to test / certify to DOT - this is a marketing decision > on their part. Does anyone know for a fact that the A032R 205/60-15 are not certified/marked DOT ? The A032R tires that are sold here are so marked ... > Theoretically, Yoko could sell these > non-DOT tires for race use only but this would be highly unlikely due > to potential for on-road use & subsequent violation of law. Grrr, don't even want to think about how stupid our product liability laws are ! Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:37:16 EST Subject: Kastner Cup/Victory Lane Thanks to our FoT Publicist, Ms. Susan Kahler, there is a nice write up on the inaugural presentation of the Kastner Cup in Victory Lane. Congratulations, once again, to Uncle Jack Drews. Please be advised that the Kastner Cup goes to the West Coast, with plans to make the presentation at Buttonwillow next May. East Coasters and Mid-Westers should try to make the trek over the Rockies to witness the second annual presentation of this coveted award. Thank you, Kas Kastner, for the award and all you have done past and present. Joe (A) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Fred & Mary Hodgson" To: "Bob Buxbaum" , "BOB KRAMER" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:19:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" Most vintage race clubs don't allow 50 series tires. Also, most clubs have maximum allowable oversize widths on wheels. SCCA & autox are a lot less regulated in that area. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Buxbaum Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 5:25 AM To: BOB KRAMER; Wes Dayton; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" At 10:45 PM 10/27/2003, BOB KRAMER wrote: >I would think that the lack of DOT approval would keep Yokohama from >producing that tire for sales here in the USA through the bigger vendors. >Why can't we get a specialty tire supplier to import a container load and >resell them? Bob Woodman, Roger Kraus, Sasco, are you listening? There is >market for a 195-60-15 or 205-60-15 that is being ignored. I have the >Dunlop 205-60-15 D84J's and I am unimpressed. I think the word is out on >them. I would try the 032Rs if they came available, especially if they were >195's. > >Bob Kramer >rkramer3@austin.rr.com Hey everybody, what are the intended use for the 032Rs? Without DOT approval they will not be imported into the US for street use. Additionally, most sanctioning bodies do not allow non-DOT tires to be run in competition in classes that are not full race classes. Examples are Stock and Street Prepared in SCCA Solo 1 and 2, and many road race classes. I guess another question is why you would not 50 series tires with their inherent benefits. TireRack has 205/50x15 in A032R http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A032R and Kuhmo's in the VictorRacer series http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=VictoRacer+V 700 . Both are 205's with no 195's. If these are for track or autocross use the Kumho's are the way to go as they are cheaper and have much better grip. Been there, done that, with the TR8 in A/SP Solo 2. Bob and Mary Buxbaum Chesapeake, Va. snaponbob@cox.net From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "jaboruch" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:55:30 -0500 Subject: Empty Trailer I will likely be making a trip from Connecticut to Illinois with an empty enclosed trailer in a couple of weeks. Is anyone looking to have anything transported in between these two areas? Joe(B) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Eells" To: "Friends Of Triumph" , Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:52:44 -0800 Subject: Sports Coil Mania returns! OK gang...here is your chance...pony up those unused Lotto winnings for your chance at an original Lucas Sports Coil: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34202&item =2439907851 For informational purposes only...no financial interest... ;-) Brad From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mark J. Bradakis" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:53:31 -0700 Subject: Re: VARA Las Vegas I had been planning on going, but it isn't going to happen. Too many broken vehicles, too little time. So I'll probably be spending Halloween night at the shop instead of driving down I-15. Shucks. Some may recall I mentioned this event a while back. It was part of planning for the upcoming season. IVR, the group that runs races locally on the old airfield at Wendover, is somewhat limited. I've been thinking that joining another club and attending a race or two per year would be nice, and perhaps I'd be able to run with a group of cars with similar capabilities, rather than watching the V8s dissappear into the distance as we come out of Conair Corner onto the front straight. The questions for the winter are which group, and which car, and what level of preperation? I've been leaning towards a 1500 squaretail Spitfire and running with VARA, or maybe putting a 1296 in Killer so it is more in line with roundtail specs, or just doing IVR on occasion and concentrating on autocrosses with an eye towards Topeka, but in Killer as an FSP car, or revive Luella, the red racer, as an honest D Prepared Solo car and part time road racer, or make the TR7 coupe into FSP, or make the 7 a full-on prod racer for Solo and IVR, or, well, you know, the typical off season musings about shuffling the automotive wardrobe. And one of these days I really should work on the TR6 again, picking up where I left off in 1987. Going to Las Vegas would have given me a chance to pay closer attention to VARA prep rules, interior requirements, safety needs and such. Who knows, such information could have made the decision easier, though I doubt it. Also, I heard that VARA has added a class for Formula Fords that aren't quite vintage but are not currently competitive in SCCA club racing. My friend Bob Allred has this Crossle' that could work for VARA, it cold be fun if we both were to start driving with VARA. We'll see how the winter progresses. First off I need to fix the broken spring on the trailer, get the Honda running again, tend to the heater in the van, .... mjb. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "tstrange@new.rr.com" To: mjb@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:47:50 -0500 Subject: Re: VARA Las Vegas & what prep level Mark, I'm sure there will be other opinions, but I like the spot I'm in with my spit. It started life as a 77, but has been backdated (drivetrain anyway) to qualify as a 72 (1296). This allows me to me to run either G prod, or vintage - historic with Midwestern Council. (very advantageous this last year when some of the Miata drivers got a little overbearing)... By doing this it also allows me to run vintage with the real vintage groups such as VARAC and VSCDA. The FOT camaraderie is really great at these events. The friendships extend to Midwestern council, and the prod groups also, but there are so many more of us at the vintage events that it really makes it a special time. (Even if I dont go very fast...) Hope these thoughts are helpful in deciding which way to go with prep and what groups you want to join. Tom #4 White Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark J. Bradakis mjb@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:53:31 -0700 To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: VARA Las Vegas I had been planning on going, but it isn't going to happen. Too many broken vehicles, too little time. So I'll probably be spending Halloween night at the shop instead of driving down I-15. Shucks. Some may recall I mentioned this event a while back. It was part of planning for the upcoming season. IVR, the group that runs races locally on the old airfield at Wendover, is somewhat limited. I've been thinking that joining another club and attending a race or two per year would be nice, and perhaps I'd be able to run with a group of cars with similar capabilities, rather than watching the V8s dissappear into the distance as we come out of Conair Corner onto the front straight. The questions for the winter are which group, and which car, and what level of preperation? I've been leaning towards a 1500 squaretail Spitfire and running with VARA, or maybe putting a 1296 in Killer so it is more in line with roundtail specs, or just doing IVR on occasion and concentrating on autocrosses with an eye towards Topeka, but in Killer as an FSP car, or revive Luella, the red racer, as an honest D Prepared Solo car and part time road racer, or make the TR7 coupe into FSP, or make the 7 a full-on prod racer for Solo and IVR, or, well, you know, the typical off season musings about shuffling the automotive wardrobe. And one of these days I really should work on the TR6 again, picking up where I left off in 1987. Going to Las Vegas would have given me a chance to pay closer attention to VARA prep rules, interior requirements, safety needs and such. Who knows, such information could have made the decision easier, though I doubt it. Also, I heard that VARA has added a class for Formula Fords that aren't quite vintage but are not currently competitive in SCCA club racing. My friend Bob Allred has this Crossle' that could work for VARA, it cold be fun if we both were to start driving with VARA. We'll see how the winter progresses. First off I need to fix the broken spring on the trailer, get the Honda running again, tend to the heater in the van, .... mjb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: BillB@bnj.com, ryoung@navcomtech.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:03:45 EST Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" FOTers I have been following this dialog with interest. Good stuff. One of the issues which may or may not be a factor here is the limited "shelf" life of new racing tire compounds. I am wondering if those of you who were reporting problems with various tires had check the tires for being "fresh". Has anyone check their tires with performance problems for the date of manufacturing? This not being a high demand tire, I am wondering if we are not using old inventories. Any comments? For the same reason, I have been told that the performance of even a fresh tire is dependent on how one takes car of ones tires, both before the track and after the track. I am told that improper inflation with high heat buildup can quickly deteriorate a racing tires performance capability. I seem to recall from previous dialog that tires pressures being used by the group were "diverse". Any comments? As many of you are aware, the Porsche Clubs run both autocross and racing events. The gals and guys running Yokos for autocross found those tires did not last very well through a ten to fifteen lap race. They would typically start becoming slippery at about lap 7 or 8. I have not participated in Porsche Club events in recent years, so I am not sure this to be the case with the current Yokos. It does support the concern expressed by someone that the Yokos were really intended for the autocross market. Any opinions on a good rain tire? Best to everyone, Cary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: bradlnss@lightspeed.net, fot@autox.team.net, triumphs@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:46:02 EST Subject: Re: Sports Coil Mania returns! $99 starting bid. Egads!!! I suppose I have at least 2 or 3 of those setting around. High bid, in the next two days, for the Friends of Triumph Non-Fund and I will send you one. The flaw to a coil setting around for years unused is that I believe they deteriorate. My opinion. Joe (A) > OK gang...here is your chance...pony up those unused Lotto winnings for your > chance at an original Lucas Sports Coil: From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "jaboruch" To: , , , Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:44:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" The Hoosier Dirt Stockers work great as rain tires. I have been using them for years, both on my Spitfire and TR3. Joe(B) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > Any opinions on a good rain tire? > > Best to everyone, Cary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: Group44TR7@aol.com, BillB@bnj.com, ryoung@navcomtech.com, Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:02:56 EST Subject: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15"...and Fires Fortunately, I dont go fast enough for any of this to matter to me and I dont have to clutter my mind with all of these facts. The fire in SoCal is clearly devastating. Cary, I hope you have fared well in the fire. Every once in a while someone will have fire in their Iowa Corn Field and it makes the evening news. Then they ban burning leaves in the fall for awhile. I burned one small pile of leaves and it was just smoldering when a neighbor turned me in. One large firetruck with fully adorned fireperson's, wielding fire axes and hoses, appeared at my house. After the last wisp of smoke was conquered, they came streaming into the family room where I was comfortably watching TV. They thought it was funny and wondered who the cranky neighbor was. I dont live in that neighborhood any longer, but that is another story. Joe (A) > FOTers > > I have been following this dialog with interest. Good stuff. > > One of the issues which may or may not be a factor here is the > limited > "shelf" life of new racing tire compounds. I am wondering if those of you > who > were reporting problems with various tires had check the tires for being > "fresh". Has anyone check their tires with performance problems for the date > of > manufacturing? This not being a high demand tire, I am wondering if we are > not > using old inventories. Any comments? > > For the same reason, I have been told that the performance of even a > fresh tire is dependent on how one takes car of ones tires, both before the > track and after the track. I am told that improper inflation with high heat > buildup can quickly deteriorate a racing tires performance capability. I > seem to > recall from previous dialog that tires pressures being used by the group > were > "diverse". Any comments? > > As many of you are aware, the Porsche Clubs run both autocross and > racing events. The gals and guys running Yokos for autocross found those > tires > did not last very well through a ten to fifteen lap race. They would > typically > start becoming slippery at about lap 7 or 8. I have not participated in > Porsche > Club events in recent years, so I am not sure this to be the case with the > current Yokos. It does support the concern expressed by someone that the > Yokos > were really intended for the autocross market. > > Any opinions on a good rain tire? > > Best to everyone, Cary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: GRMTim@aol.com To: brad.kahler@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:14:00 EST Subject: Re: wood vs vinyl / leather steering wheels Wood splinters in a crash and is either not allowed or at least real dangerous for racing. Tim Suddard Publisher, Grassroots Motorsports/Classic Motorsports www. GrassrootsMotorsports.com www.ClassicMotorsports.net Phone (386) 673-4148 Fax (386) 673-6040 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Kahler" To: FOT Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:16:47 -0600 Subject: wood vs vinyl / leather steering wheels Amici, I don't recall seeing this discussed before on the list. I'm in the process of physically setting of the TR3 for the new race seat and need to get a steering wheel to suit my needs. I plan on replacing the steering wheel that was in the car with a Grant wheel (got the hub recently). So my question is, which is better for racing, wood or vinyl / leather? Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: brad.kahler@141.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:32:59 EST Subject: Re: wood vs vinyl / leather steering wheels Some groups dont like wood. If you are a vampire you wont like it either. > Amici, > > I don't recall seeing this discussed before on the list. > > I'm in the process of physically setting of the TR3 for the new race > seat and need to get a steering wheel to suit my needs. I plan on > replacing the steering wheel that was in the car with a Grant wheel > (got the hub recently). So my question is, which is better for racing, > wood or vinyl / leather? > > Brad > 1957 TR3 vintage racer From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Brad Kahler" To: GRMTim@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:27:36 -0600 Subject: Re: wood vs vinyl / leather steering wheels Hadn't thought about that angle. Looks like I'll be looking for a vinyl or leather steering wheel. Thanks! Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer On 29 Oct 2003 at 9:14, GRMTim@aol.com wrote: > Wood splinters in a crash and is either not allowed or at least real > dangerous for racing. > > Tim Suddard From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: brad.kahler@141.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:30:16 EST Subject: Re: wood vs vinyl / leather steering wheels In a message dated 10/29/2003 8:12:39 AM Central Standard Time, brad.kahler@141.com writes: > I'm in the process of physically setting of the TR3 for the new race > seat and need to get a steering wheel to suit my needs. I plan on > replacing the steering wheel that was in the car with a Grant wheel > (got the hub recently). So my question is, which is better for racing, > wood or vinyl / leather? > > While I've seen them (especially vintage), WOOD's always been thought to be a NO NO. Wismer and I have a WOOD steering wheel we use when we display the THUNDER BOLT. It looks great. But when we race, we use a vinyl racing wheel. Bill Dentinger From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Group44TR7@aol.com To: N197TR4@cs.com, BillB@bnj.com, ryoung@navcomtech.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:37:26 EST Subject: ...and Fires Joe I think that you have always finished ahead of me when I have raced the TR3. I quess your right, I have been wasting my time reading about these tires. Fortunately, all that we have to currently complain about is miserable air quality and ashes over everything. I have not been able to reach the ministorage people where you delivered the TR8, so I guess I will try to get over there today. From what I understand of the fire area, it was very close. Fortunately, I move the TR8 and motorized toys from there in the past several months. Cary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Randall Young" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:32:00 -0800 Subject: RE: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" > Dunlop non-DOT tires are for sale here. Roger Kraus Racing web > page Thanks for the tip, Bob! The Dunlop 205 page is at : http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Dunlop205.html Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BRITPAC@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:32:48 EST Subject: Sports coil mania I saw it, but I don't believe it. Clearly we're out of line, selling new sports coils for $39.95. I had better raise those prices right away... Steve Hedke From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Herald948@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:55:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Sports coil mania In a message dated 10/29/2003 11:32:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, BRITPAC writes: > > I saw it, but I don't believe it. Clearly we're out of line, selling new > sports coils for $39.95. I had better raise those prices > right away... Don't bother, Steve, ee won't be "fooled" by that gold colored case, modern logos and the lack of a "proper" screw-in HT lead. As for deterioration, I've got a couple of these "valuable" original-style Lucas Sports coils that have outlasted one or two cars. Guess I'd better rig up some way to protect these coils from the inevitable theft and later eBay resale.... :-) --Andy Mace From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "John Price" To: "Friends of Triumph" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:50:36 -0600 Subject: Tires I am almost sorry I brought this up, but if anyone cares... For the record, I replaced my old A008s with Khumo V770 205/50-15s. I made this choice because (a) CVAR allows my class to run 50 series tires, (b) The smaller diameter allowed me to avoid getting a lower ratio diff and (c) They were a lot cheaper than Hoosiers or Dunlops. Unfortunately, the wider tire created some suspension interference problems that cost a lot more than the difference in tire cost to remedy. The problem as I see it is this: 1. When Yokahama was still making the A008 in the 195/60-15, life was good. The tire was durable, sticky and the 60-series was the standard for most organizations. 2. In spite of the demise of the A008 for 15" wheels, some racing organizations have continued to insist on a 60-series tire (or equivalent) and some have not. CVAR and VSCDA, for example allow 50-series tires in some classes. However both require a DOT-approved tire. SVRA still requires a 60-series, but has a provision in their rules for non-DOT tires provided they are pre-approved and an appropriate note is in the logbook. So, even if we can get our hands on those big Yokahama mammas, we may not be able to use them. 3. Because of this conflict we are forced to run tires that are not only more expensive than the old A008s, but are not as durable or sticky. If we are fortunate enough to be in a club that allows 50-series tires for our class, we may have to buy a new set of tires just to go race with another organization. Yes, I know that some organizations will give waivers for certain non-safety related items, but it's a hassle both for the tech inspectors and the car owners. Sometimes you may not be sure you can run until you get there, and you always hope the tech guys are not having a bad day. This is vintage racing. In the old days (which I can remember) everyone ran on street tires ( The films of XK120s and the like power-sliding through the corners are really spectacular. Try that on your Yokahamas! ). The issue is not whether the tires we are allowed to use are the stickiest available or whether they are the best in the rain, but about establishing a level playing field. If we were all running on Hoosiers or Dunlops, so what? Remember, it's not whether you win or lose - but how you play the game. Right... I don't know much about the Vintage Motorsports Council or how it operates, but it seems VMC would be the appropriate venue for either establishing tire standards across all (about 30 at last count) the affiliated racing organizations. So, all you people get in touch with your organization's VMC representative and see if we can get the issue on the table. John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "kas kastner" To: , Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:11:16 -0800 Subject: Re: wood vs vinyl / leather steering wheels Two things, first the wood rim wheels were outlawed in all the West Coast clubs (SCCA and CAL CLUB) in about 1959 because of a horrendous crash with a Morgan where the steering wheel splintered. ( I was there) It may not have been the only case but it certainly didn't take long after this event for the ban to happen. Second, I know that race tires have a shelf life and the older they get the harder they get. Running fully inflated and brought up to temperature and allowed to cool will make the tire slightly harder for that one heat cycle, so if you do it two times the second heat cycle makes it harder yet. Each heat cycle then reduces the stick just slightly and allows the tire to run without quite as much gain in temperature. Heat cycling tires was and is quite a common occurrence in top level racing where the compound is too soft for the course but the next harder compound is too hard. Did this many many times with the Nissan GTP car to get the tires just right. In the end what this means in Vintage is that the tire you started the event with is not the same after the practice sessions and qualifying event so you need to adjust either the pressure or the suspension to account for this. Of course with the GTP cars the tires never lasted more than a session or two at best anyway but getting tires ready for qualifying and the race was always a very pointed job at every event. I would suppose this would have the same effect on DOT tires but perhaps not the extreme that occurs in race tires. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 6:32 AM Subject: Re: wood vs vinyl / leather steering wheels > Some groups dont like wood. If you are a vampire you wont like it either. > > > Amici, > > > > I don't recall seeing this discussed before on the list. > > > > I'm in the process of physically setting of the TR3 for the new race > > seat and need to get a steering wheel to suit my needs. I plan on > > replacing the steering wheel that was in the car with a Grant wheel > > (got the hub recently). So my question is, which is better for racing, > > wood or vinyl / leather? > > > > Brad > > 1957 TR3 vintage racer From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "elliottd" To: , Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:48:08 -0500 Subject: Steve, Janet & Scrappy Congratulations - All three of you appear in a black and white photo in the latest issue of TR Action, the glossy magazine of the British TR Register. Sorry I didn't let you know earlier that I sent in the picture that I took of you in Kokomo during the Great Race. http://www.tr-register.co.uk/ Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Jim Gambony" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:37:50 -0600 Subject: Early Spitfire Cam question FOT'ers, Can anyone shed some light on the possible vintages/specs on some early Spitfire camshafts? 202931 211433 213028 All are designed for use with cam bearings (small bearing diameter). TIA, Jim Dallas TX From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:46:43 EST Subject: Long TR4A Intake Manifolds-For Sale I have an extra one on the shelf. $30 including shipping. Thanks, Joe (A) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Aaron Johnson" To: "John Price" , Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:32:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Tires Did Bf Goodrich stop making the G-Force TA R-1 (and before that the comp t/a) in 205-60/15. that is what I ran on my TR6 for a while and they were quite nice. I don't see it listed anywhere so I'm assuming that they are no longer in production. aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: John Price To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:50 AM Subject: Tires I am almost sorry I brought this up, but if anyone cares... For the record, I replaced my old A008s with Khumo V770 205/50-15s. I made this choice because (a) CVAR allows my class to run 50 series tires, (b) The smaller diameter allowed me to avoid getting a lower ratio diff and (c) They were a lot cheaper than Hoosiers or Dunlops. Unfortunately, the wider tire created some suspension interference problems that cost a lot more than the difference in tire cost to remedy. The problem as I see it is this: 1. When Yokahama was still making the A008 in the 195/60-15, life was good. The tire was durable, sticky and the 60-series was the standard for most organizations. 2. In spite of the demise of the A008 for 15" wheels, some racing organizations have continued to insist on a 60-series tire (or equivalent) and some have not. CVAR and VSCDA, for example allow 50-series tires in some classes. However both require a DOT-approved tire. SVRA still requires a 60-series, but has a provision in their rules for non-DOT tires provided they are pre-approved and an appropriate note is in the logbook. So, even if we can get our hands on those big Yokahama mammas, we may not be able to use them. 3. Because of this conflict we are forced to run tires that are not only more expensive than the old A008s, but are not as durable or sticky. If we are fortunate enough to be in a club that allows 50-series tires for our class, we may have to buy a new set of tires just to go race with another organization. Yes, I know that some organizations will give waivers for certain non-safety related items, but it's a hassle both for the tech inspectors and the car owners. Sometimes you may not be sure you can run until you get there, and you always hope the tech guys are not having a bad day. This is vintage racing. In the old days (which I can remember) everyone ran on street tires ( The films of XK120s and the like power-sliding through the corners are really spectacular. Try that on your Yokahamas! ). The issue is not whether the tires we are allowed to use are the stickiest available or whether they are the best in the rain, but about establishing a level playing field. If we were all running on Hoosiers or Dunlops, so what? Remember, it's not whether you win or lose - but how you play the game. Right... I don't know much about the Vintage Motorsports Council or how it operates, but it seems VMC would be the appropriate venue for either establishing tire standards across all (about 30 at last count) the affiliated racing organizations. So, all you people get in touch with your organization's VMC representative and see if we can get the issue on the table. John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:00:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: A new Devin find! FOTer's: For those of you not interested in Devin projects can just throw this in your trash bin, but, for those of us that just have to collect projects please read on. I have come upon another Devin. This one is a very good, unmounted body with cockpit kit. The PO intended to mount it on the supplied TR4 chassis. All the suspension is there ready to be bolted on, along with the rear axle. It comes with a set of TR 72 spoke wire wheels and a set of Jaguar wire wheels (not sure what he was thinking there). He desired more than the normal TR drivetrain would supply, so it also comes with a 215 ci aluminum block Buick V8 with Weber downdrafts, a 4 speed Corvette aluminum tranny, and three or four aluminum bell housings. If anyone is interested in this new find please contect me off list and I can supply more info. Thanks - Ed From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Brett Johnson <356drb@indy.net> To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:28:05 -0800 Subject: Minilite lug nuts I have the world's supply of NOS Minilite lug nuts and bolts. I'm starting to run out of washers, so I thought I'd give a heads up. If anyone is interested, please contact me offline with a mailing address or fax number and I'll send an illustrated listing with dimensions of available inventory. Brett Johnson From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:07:06 +0000 Subject: Jack Wheeler's TR4 I got this from a fellow Triumpher... I found an image (attached) on the FOT web site that interests me, and the photo credits page said you took a lot of the pics. I have a '63 TR4 and am doing some fairly radical suspension mods that increase the front/rear tracks substantially. I want/need to add flares and love the look of the "Jack Wheeler" car. Did you take the picture? If so, do you happen to have others or know how I can get in touch with Mr. Wheeler? Cliff Farmer It wasn't my photgraph... Can anyone help this guy? Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... _________________________________________________________________ Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings! Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: Aaron Johnson , John Price Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:42:28 -0800 Subject: RE: Tires Actually, that's the reason everyone is looking so hard at alternatives. The Goodrich tires were great, but they are not in production anymore. -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Aaron Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:33 PM To: John Price; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: Tires Did Bf Goodrich stop making the G-Force TA R-1 (and before that the comp t/a) in 205-60/15. that is what I ran on my TR6 for a while and they were quite nice. I don't see it listed anywhere so I'm assuming that they are no longer in production. aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: John Price To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:50 AM Subject: Tires I am almost sorry I brought this up, but if anyone cares... For the record, I replaced my old A008s with Khumo V770 205/50-15s. I made this choice because (a) CVAR allows my class to run 50 series tires, (b) The smaller diameter allowed me to avoid getting a lower ratio diff and (c) They were a lot cheaper than Hoosiers or Dunlops. Unfortunately, the wider tire created some suspension interference problems that cost a lot more than the difference in tire cost to remedy. The problem as I see it is this: 1. When Yokahama was still making the A008 in the 195/60-15, life was good. The tire was durable, sticky and the 60-series was the standard for most organizations. 2. In spite of the demise of the A008 for 15" wheels, some racing organizations have continued to insist on a 60-series tire (or equivalent) and some have not. CVAR and VSCDA, for example allow 50-series tires in some classes. However both require a DOT-approved tire. SVRA still requires a 60-series, but has a provision in their rules for non-DOT tires provided they are pre-approved and an appropriate note is in the logbook. So, even if we can get our hands on those big Yokahama mammas, we may not be able to use them. 3. Because of this conflict we are forced to run tires that are not only more expensive than the old A008s, but are not as durable or sticky. If we are fortunate enough to be in a club that allows 50-series tires for our class, we may have to buy a new set of tires just to go race with another organization. Yes, I know that some organizations will give waivers for certain non-safety related items, but it's a hassle both for the tech inspectors and the car owners. Sometimes you may not be sure you can run until you get there, and you always hope the tech guys are not having a bad day. This is vintage racing. In the old days (which I can remember) everyone ran on street tires ( The films of XK120s and the like power-sliding through the corners are really spectacular. Try that on your Yokahamas! ). The issue is not whether the tires we are allowed to use are the stickiest available or whether they are the best in the rain, but about establishing a level playing field. If we were all running on Hoosiers or Dunlops, so what? Remember, it's not whether you win or lose - but how you play the game. Right... I don't know much about the Vintage Motorsports Council or how it operates, but it seems VMC would be the appropriate venue for either establishing tire standards across all (about 30 at last count) the affiliated racing organizations. So, all you people get in touch with your organization's VMC representative and see if we can get the issue on the table. John From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Editorgary@aol.com To: owner-fot-digest@autox.team.net, fot-digest@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:03:10 EST Subject: Re Running with VARA In a message dated 10/30/03 6:01:38 AM, owner-fot-digest@autox.team.net writes: << Going to Las Vegas would have given me a chance to pay closer attention to VARA prep rules, interior requirements, safety needs and such. >> Had occasion to interview their honchos recently. VARA's attitudes are pretty reasonable. They believe that if a car arrives at the track that is of the correct years, entry fee paid, driver's medical up to date, and it meets all safety requirements, a way should be found to allow it to run. They also believe that gridding and grouping should be done on the basis of performance, not artificial or period criteria. If your Spitfire is challenging the lap times of big-block Mustangs in qualifying, then that's where you'll be placed in the races, which insures that groups are pretty evenly-matched and pretty competitive, even though the grids look a bit unusual at times (sometimes even places open-wheel cars or sports racers in production groups). Nevertheless, they are pretty emphatic about on-track safety, so they have a good record of cars and drivers returning to the paddock in the same condition they went out on the grid. Cheers Gary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net ('fot@autox.team.net') Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:01:50 EST Subject: VINTAGE MOTORSPORT 2003/6 Amici: My copy of the current issue (NOV/DEC 2003) of VINTAGE MOTORSPORT arrived today. As usual, the quality of the photographs is outstanding. I've not looked at the whole issue carefully yet, but the SNOOKSTER's TR3 made the MID-OHIO article. Great pictures of the Bob Kramer and Tony Drews TR4s and the Russ Moore and Donny Sopp Spitfires at MOSPORT. Of course Tony gets called 'Jack Drews'. It's tough to always be in the shadow of your old man...especially when you're faster. Bob Kramer is pictured in front of Tony, which has got to make him feel good...as that's probably the lap he blew holes in both sides of his engine block. There may be other FOTers in this issue I have not seen yet. Mr. Babcock will have to name the bike pictured in the 'Over There' article (Page 12) about Goodwood. Looks like a TRIUMPH to me, but I'm out of my element with motor cycles (although we are replacing the clutch on my 1967 Tiger Cub today). The MOSPORT Pick of the Liter (sic) on page 86 is an interesting 1958 GSM Delta. Neat little car. Went FAST too. One of the perks for me in making the haul to MOSPORT was seeing some very exotic 'stuff' at speed. Bill Dentinger PS Today is October 30th. Temperature here in Wisconsin may flirt with sixty. My street TR4 still has its top down, and will get put away tomorrow until next May 1st. Rag top weather in Wisconsin is about four months long, but I try to make it into six months. I get really rosy cheeks on the way to work some mornings. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: Editorgary@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:36:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Re Running with VARA I had thought about trying to see if VARA would let me run my 21 year old 1983 T-83 Red Devil F440/F500 (it is all original except for roll bar/hoop updates to current GCR spec) with their Open Wheel Group since the car is woefully uncompetitive with the current crop of SCCA F500 cars which are faster than most Formula Fords. But if what you are saying is true I find those policies to be extremely negligent. While it might be one thing to run a Spitfire along side the ground pounding Mustangs and Vettes if their lap times are the same the weight difference and strength of the Chassis would mean that the Spitfire which could hold it's own in a collision with a Mini, MGB, etc... would certainly get the short end of a tangle with a "big" car. And while some sports racers can share the track with production cars not all can and an Open-wheel car should NEVER share RACE track time with anything that big. Maybe some PRACTICE sessions but I would refuse to take myself out on the track with them unless it was just to do a "hardship lap" to check the car out after making some adjustments. I have been on track with my car when an old Can-Am car blew past me and I can assure you that was disconcerting knowing that the driver sitting in the cockpit of that car was completely unable to see me I was completely lower than the sides of his car - including the top of my roll bar. Heck if a car was sitting in an RX7 right next to me and I was on the passenger side of his car he would have no idea that I was even there as I am lower than the window opening. And while I understand that VARA takes a dim view of any contact that would be bitter consolation for my next of kin. At 10:03 AM 10/30/2003, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/30/03 6:01:38 AM, owner-fot-digest@autox.team.net >writes: > ><< Going to Las Vegas would have given me a chance to pay closer attention to >VARA prep rules, interior requirements, safety needs and such. >> > >Had occasion to interview their honchos recently. VARA's attitudes are pretty >reasonable. They believe that if a car arrives at the track that is of the >correct years, entry fee paid, driver's medical up to date, and it meets all >safety requirements, a way should be found to allow it to run. They also >believe >that gridding and grouping should be done on the basis of performance, not >artificial or period criteria. If your Spitfire is challenging the lap >times of >big-block Mustangs in qualifying, then that's where you'll be placed in the >races, which insures that groups are pretty evenly-matched and pretty >competitive, even though the grids look a bit unusual at times (sometimes >even places >open-wheel cars or sports racers in production groups). Nevertheless, they >are >pretty emphatic about on-track safety, so they have a good record of cars and >drivers returning to the paddock in the same condition they went out on >the grid. >Cheers >Gary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "elliottd" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:28:38 -0500 Subject: New Triumph 2.2 liter Engine It has 140 HP. http://www.triumph.co.uk/site/bikes/page.cfm?BikeID=83 Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Editorgary@aol.com To: dave@microworks.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:29:43 EST Subject: David and Goliath (was racing with VARA) In a message dated 10/30/03 12:39:40 PM, dave@microworks.net writes: << But if what you are saying is true I find those policies to be extremely negligent. While it might be one thing to run a Spitfire along side the ground pounding Mustangs and Vettes if their lap times are the same the weight difference and strength of the Chassis would mean that the Spitfire which could hold it's own in a collision with a Mini, MGB, etc... would certainly get the short end of a tangle with a "big" car. And while some sports racers can share the track with production cars not all can and an Open-wheel car should NEVER share RACE track time with anything that big. >> Well, yes and no. One of the things we noted in our magazine when we wrote a story about the Lotus 26R (superlight racing Lotus Elite) was that it was classed historically and still runs with the big Mustangs and Camaros. Drivers either accepted that fact and dealt with it, or raced something else. Also, look at any set of historic photos from club racing, and you'll note open-wheelers running with sedans. Sure, one isn't as safe in an open-wheel car in a confrontation between the two (many drivers eschew open-wheel cars in general because they're inherently more dangerous in confrontations even among their kin), and it's certainly not a practice that most clubs routinely endorse, but there are some drivers who welcome the opportunity to actually race with someone at their performance level and are willing to take the extra caution (is there any such thing as TOO MUCH caution in racing, btw?) that the situation merits. I have a good friend who, given the choice of racing his 998cc-powered Genie with the small-bore production class or the typical group of sports racers, will go out with the production guys every time, since he at least gets to race, instead of being a moving chicane for the big boys in the Chevrons. There is something to be said for the inherent safety in cars with evenly matched performance racing in the same grid, that may in some peoples' minds outweigh the potential issues in unmatched body styles. It's worth noting, by the way, that none of this represents VARA's point of view or an official statement of their policies, or those of any other racing group, but is only one person's opinion, based on personal observations. Cheers Gary Anderson Editor, Classic Motorsports magazine From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Dave Riddle To: Editorgary@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:20:20 -0700 Subject: Re: David and Goliath (was racing with VARA) Mounting soapbox... >Also, look at any set of historic photos from club racing, and you'll note Yeah, but I can look at those same photos and see guys driving their cars in short sleeve shirts, stringback gloves, little to no roll bars with only hay bales between them and the public. Doesn't mean that what was done in the bad old days is something that should be done today. People should learn from mistakes and not try to repeat them. >open-wheelers running with sedans. Sure, one isn't as safe in an >open-wheel car >in a confrontation between the two (many drivers eschew open-wheel cars in >general because they're inherently more dangerous in confrontations even >among >their kin), and it's certainly not a practice that most clubs routinely >endorse, Maybe back in the days of old spindly Formula Cars before racing benefited from the efforts of the Jackie Stewart's and Bill Simpson's of the world. Today I feel very safe in my Formula car. It is stoutly built with crush zones and the knowledge that no one racing a car in my class can ever remember anyone ever dying in one - this goes back to the late 1970's. Injuries, sure, but even there they have not been that bad. For example check out this series of this triple flip by an F500 in T5 at Road America. The driver walked away with nothing more than a bump on his ankle. http://www.f500.org/june_sprints_01_jondal.htm >but there are some drivers who welcome the opportunity to actually race with >someone at their performance level and are willing to take the extra caution >(is there any such thing as TOO MUCH caution in racing, btw?) that the >situation merits. Just because one car "can" be as fast as another car does not mean they have any business racing. Why should a car in car type #1 that does not have enough of his own class to race against need to get in an mix it up with car(s) in class #2 that are actually racing for a class win. If you are on track with other people and don't have a "dog in the fight" and you interfere just so you can have fun is not only pointless and possibly dangerous but rude as well. My old F440/F500 can't run with the fastest of the current F500's but I am more than a match for the F-Vee's. Does that mean I should screw with them? Maybe if a single Vee is out there running the two of us can have some fun together but if he is in a pitched battle with another car I should have the sense to not spoil their race by getting in the middle of it. A few years ago I was driving a Pro-7 (I am/was the track record holder in that class at Firebird - so I do know how to drive fast in a race - not just open track) and two friends of mine were driving Spec-7's. I was the only Pro-7 there that day so the three of us decided we would play together. The Pro-7 was lighter and faster on the straights and the Spec 7's were faster in the corners with their wider tires. So we were pretty evenly matched. While T/S was not showing us as racing each other in our minds we were. The point is that we had decided among ourselves to race each other. Just because one guy wants the thrill of wheel-to-wheel competition with some other cars does not mean that they will feel the same way about what they rightly should view as an interloper in their race. getting off soapbox (waiting for tomatoes to start flying...) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: N197TR4@cs.com To: dave@microworks.net, Editorgary@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:19:17 EST Subject: Re: Re Running with VARA In three words... Size DOES Matter! GT5 Minis no longer no longer run with GT1s at Road America after an incident causing a fatality. And visibility was not necessarily a factor. > I had thought about trying to see if VARA would let me run my 21 year old > 1983 T-83 Red Devil F440/F500 (it is all original except for roll bar/hoop > updates to current GCR spec) with their Open Wheel Group since the car is > woefully uncompetitive with the current crop of SCCA F500 cars which are > faster than most Formula Fords. But if what you are saying is true I find > those policies to be extremely negligent. > > While it might be one thing to run a Spitfire along side the ground > pounding Mustangs and Vettes if their lap times are the same the weight > difference and strength of the Chassis would mean that the Spitfire which > could hold it's own in a collision with a Mini, MGB, etc... would certainly > get the short end of a tangle with a "big" car. > > And while some sports racers can share the track with production cars not > all can and an Open-wheel car should NEVER share RACE track time with > anything that big. Maybe some PRACTICE sessions but I would refuse to take > myself out on the track with them unless it was just to do a "hardship lap" > to check the car out after making some adjustments. > > I have been on track with my car when an old Can-Am car blew past me and I > can assure you that was disconcerting knowing that the driver sitting in > the cockpit of that car was completely unable to see me I was completely > lower than the sides of his car - including the top of my roll bar. Heck > if a car was sitting in an RX7 right next to me and I was on the passenger > side of his car he would have no idea that I was even there as I am lower > than the window opening. > > And while I understand that VARA takes a dim view of any contact that would > be bitter consolation for my next of kin. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Wes Dayton To: Friends of Triumph Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:20:36 +1100 Subject: Re: Tires - A032R - 205-60/15" I just rang a friend who runs A032Rs on his Elva (different size). As it happens he is also very involved in the Australian body that decides what tires we can/can't use. He looked at his set of tires and they do not say "DOT" anywhere on them. They do seem to have all the usual markings regarding load limits etc including the words "For Sporty Use" - mae what you will of that. But he has been told that they are "approved" for road use, etc. He has also recently discovered that they do use different compounds which are also marked on the tire - his show an 'S' which presumably stands for 'street'. I don't have one here to look at (quizzed him over the phone) so can't answer much more; hope that's of some help. Wes Dayton On 29/10/03 3:57 AM, "Randall Young" wrote: >> As these tires must have been tested to Japan or European standards >> (JATMA or EU), I am sure they would meet DOT standards also. Yokohama >> has chosen not to test / certify to DOT - this is a marketing decision >> on their part. > > Does anyone know for a fact that the A032R 205/60-15 are not > certified/marked DOT ? The A032R tires that are sold here are so marked ... > >> Theoretically, Yoko could sell these >> non-DOT tires for race use only but this would be highly unlikely due to >> potential for on-road use & subsequent violation of law. > > Grrr, don't even want to think about how stupid our product liability laws > are ! > > Randall From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Rocky Entriken" To: , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:56:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Jack Wheeler's TR4 Attachments are always stripped from team.net messages (virus protection for us all). You need to provide a URL so we can go find the photo. --Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Jack Wheeler's TR4 > I got this from a fellow Triumpher... > > I found an image (attached) on the FOT web site that interests me, and > the photo credits page said you took a lot of the pics. I have a '63 > TR4 and am doing some fairly radical suspension mods that increase the > front/rear tracks substantially. I want/need to add flares and love the > look of the "Jack Wheeler" car. > > Did you take the picture? If so, do you happen to have others or know > how I can get in touch with Mr. Wheeler? > > Cliff Farmer > > It wasn't my photgraph... Can anyone help this guy? > > > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) > > That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings! > Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134 From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "dos_gusanos" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:18:01 -0700 Subject: Running with VARA I prefer to run whatever Elva, Healey, or Triumph with the older cars. I don't like running with Porsche 914's Datsun 510's, BMW 2002's Datsun 240 Z's and Pinto's. These cars are quicker than a TR3 and not at all interesting. That is the big reason I stopped running with VARA and chose not to go run in Vegas. Get me to a CSRG event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "jaboruch" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:47:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Running with VARA I have been racing with a number of 510's, 2002's, 240Zs, 914's, etc in the SCCA and only a couple of 240Z's have been faster than my TR3. Joe(B) ----- Original Message ----- From: "dos_gusanos" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:18 PM Subject: Running with VARA > I prefer to run whatever Elva, Healey, or Triumph with the older cars. I > don't like running with Porsche 914's Datsun 510's, BMW 2002's Datsun 240 Z's > and Pinto's. These cars are quicker than a TR3 and not at all interesting. > That is the big reason I stopped running with VARA and chose not to go run in > Vegas. Get me to a CSRG event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Henry Morrison > Albuquerque, NM From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "John Kipping" To: "Jim Gambony" , Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:22:30 +1300 Subject: Re: Early Spitfire Cam question working from memory 202931 is very early sporting cam, used in Herald 948 twin carbs for example timing, 211433 is Spitfire I and Herald 12/50, 213028 is really naff, used in late US Spit IIIs. John Kipping ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Gambony" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Early Spitfire Cam question > FOT'ers, > > Can anyone shed some light on the possible vintages/specs on some early > Spitfire camshafts? > > 202931 > 211433 > 213028 > > All are designed for use with cam bearings (small bearing diameter). > > > > TIA, > > Jim > Dallas TX From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Aaron Johnson" To: "Dave Riddle" , , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:18:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Re Running with VARA Run groupings is always an issue in SCCA, especially at the regional level. The run group in Oregon Region is pretty decent, ITE, AS, F-G-H production, GT4, GT5, Pro7, SPU, SSC, SSB, T1 and T2. The grouping is good as the Times range from the high 1:27's with most cars in the 1:35 range (+/- a couple seconds) and the SSC cars rounding out the field in the 1:40's. I do get nervous when they talk about grouping F with the GT1 and 2 cars as they weigh 3K lbs and have top speeds of almost 170 on the straight. This run grouping problem is what led to the roll cage changes for SCCA production cars in the 90's. We now have to have full width cages, supports and the tubing sizes grew. Most vintage racing cars don't have the full cage and only employ a hoop and diagonal brace, that could be a problem with the big cars. aaron johnson #38 FP Spit MkIV Oregon Region SCCA http://www.geocities.com/spitracer9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Riddle To: Editorgary@aol.com ; fot@autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Re Running with VARA I had thought about trying to see if VARA would let me run my 21 year old 1983 T-83 Red Devil F440/F500 (it is all original except for roll bar/hoop updates to current GCR spec) with their Open Wheel Group since the car is woefully uncompetitive with the current crop of SCCA F500 cars which are faster than most Formula Fords. But if what you are saying is true I find those policies to be extremely negligent. While it might be one thing to run a Spitfire along side the ground pounding Mustangs and Vettes if their lap times are the same the weight difference and strength of the Chassis would mean that the Spitfire which could hold it's own in a collision with a Mini, MGB, etc... would certainly get the short end of a tangle with a "big" car. And while some sports racers can share the track with production cars not all can and an Open-wheel car should NEVER share RACE track time with anything that big. Maybe some PRACTICE sessions but I would refuse to take myself out on the track with them unless it was just to do a "hardship lap" to check the car out after making some adjustments. I have been on track with my car when an old Can-Am car blew past me and I can assure you that was disconcerting knowing that the driver sitting in the cockpit of that car was completely unable to see me I was completely lower than the sides of his car - including the top of my roll bar. Heck if a car was sitting in an RX7 right next to me and I was on the passenger side of his car he would have no idea that I was even there as I am lower than the window opening. And while I understand that VARA takes a dim view of any contact that would be bitter consolation for my next of kin. At 10:03 AM 10/30/2003, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/30/03 6:01:38 AM, owner-fot-digest@autox.team.net >writes: > ><< Going to Las Vegas would have given me a chance to pay closer attention to >VARA prep rules, interior requirements, safety needs and such. >> > >Had occasion to interview their honchos recently. VARA's attitudes are pretty >reasonable. They believe that if a car arrives at the track that is of the >correct years, entry fee paid, driver's medical up to date, and it meets all >safety requirements, a way should be found to allow it to run. They also >believe >that gridding and grouping should be done on the basis of performance, not >artificial or period criteria. If your Spitfire is challenging the lap >times of >big-block Mustangs in qualifying, then that's where you'll be placed in the >races, which insures that groups are pretty evenly-matched and pretty >competitive, even though the grids look a bit unusual at times (sometimes >even places >open-wheel cars or sports racers in production groups). Nevertheless, they >are >pretty emphatic about on-track safety, so they have a good record of cars and >drivers returning to the paddock in the same condition they went out on >the grid. >Cheers >Gary From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works USA, LLC" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:05:36 -0800 Subject: Running with VARA Personally, I like racing with any car. I raced along side Mercedes Gullwings, to Miata's only difference is I get to lap the Mercedes a bit sooner. I don't care to race with Porsches but, sure like to pass them as well. I must admit that watching 912 Porsches terminally oversteer on turn 2 at Phoenix just makes my day. I certainly wish I had one more gear. Now, as ugly as Pinto's are they have one hell of a Motor. In this regard beauty is substantially, more than skin deep. To watch a 3 main tractor motor pull up to BMW and pass down the straight is sweet. Can't do that to a 240z -yet. VARA is my dream come true. It is an organization that is mooving forward and remains not for profit volunteer run group. Except for one F.T.E. manager. Mordy ----- Original Message ----- From: dos_gusanos To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:18 PM Subject: Running with VARA > I prefer to run whatever Elva, Healey, or Triumph with the older cars. I > don't like running with Porsche 914's Datsun 510's, BMW 2002's Datsun 240 Z's > and Pinto's. These cars are quicker than a TR3 and not at all interesting. > That is the big reason I stopped running with VARA and chose not to go run in > Vegas. Get me to a CSRG event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Henry Morrison > Albuquerque, NM From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: jaboruch , fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:20:36 -0800 Subject: RE: Running with VARA Hmmm, well Henry you're just not cheating enough. I know Peyote doesn't count, 'cause it's weirdly fast and gets to "honestly" break rules with both hands (though they've recently drawn the line on my Wilwood ultralight calipers (just because Mr. Wilwood was 3 probably years old in 1960 doesn't mean Peyote couldn't have had them--he could have been very precocious)), but my little NASCAR TR3 will handle any and all of those. Of course they carry me out of town on a rail, but it's fun while it lasts. -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jaboruch Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 6:47 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Running with VARA I have been racing with a number of 510's, 2002's, 240Zs, 914's, etc in the SCCA and only a couple of 240Z's have been faster than my TR3. Joe(B) ----- Original Message ----- From: "dos_gusanos" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:18 PM Subject: Running with VARA > I prefer to run whatever Elva, Healey, or Triumph with the older cars. I > don't like running with Porsche 914's Datsun 510's, BMW 2002's Datsun 240 Z's > and Pinto's. These cars are quicker than a TR3 and not at all interesting. > That is the big reason I stopped running with VARA and chose not to go run in > Vegas. Get me to a CSRG event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Henry Morrison > Albuquerque, NM From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: N197TR4@cs.com, dave@microworks.net, Editorgary@aol.com, Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:24:10 -0800 Subject: RE: Re Running with VARA I recommend one of those little aerial flags. There's a car that runs up here in the Northwest called the chain drive special that's about half the size of a FF. I can't see him when I'm in Peyote! I run the USRRC races every so often, and enduros too, where they stick everything on the track together. Disconcerting, but fun. -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4@cs.com Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:19 PM To: dave@microworks.net; Editorgary@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Re Running with VARA In three words... Size DOES Matter! GT5 Minis no longer no longer run with GT1s at Road America after an incident causing a fatality. And visibility was not necessarily a factor. > I had thought about trying to see if VARA would let me run my 21 year old > 1983 T-83 Red Devil F440/F500 (it is all original except for roll bar/hoop > updates to current GCR spec) with their Open Wheel Group since the car is > woefully uncompetitive with the current crop of SCCA F500 cars which are > faster than most Formula Fords. But if what you are saying is true I find > those policies to be extremely negligent. > > While it might be one thing to run a Spitfire along side the ground > pounding Mustangs and Vettes if their lap times are the same the weight > difference and strength of the Chassis would mean that the Spitfire which > could hold it's own in a collision with a Mini, MGB, etc... would certainly > get the short end of a tangle with a "big" car. > > And while some sports racers can share the track with production cars not > all can and an Open-wheel car should NEVER share RACE track time with > anything that big. Maybe some PRACTICE sessions but I would refuse to take > myself out on the track with them unless it was just to do a "hardship lap" > to check the car out after making some adjustments. > > I have been on track with my car when an old Can-Am car blew past me and I > can assure you that was disconcerting knowing that the driver sitting in > the cockpit of that car was completely unable to see me I was completely > lower than the sides of his car - including the top of my roll bar. Heck > if a car was sitting in an RX7 right next to me and I was on the passenger > side of his car he would have no idea that I was even there as I am lower > than the window opening. > > And while I understand that VARA takes a dim view of any contact that would > be bitter consolation for my next of kin. From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: Bill Babcock To: elliottd , fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:38:11 -0800 Subject: RE: New Triumph 2.2 liter Engine Kind of cool, kind of goofy. I'm involved in the new Vincent project. Part of the project is a "secret" power cruiser that you can actually pretty much reconstruct if you go to the "build your own Vincent" section of the website www.vincentmotors.com and select the lowered frame before you stick the tank and other stuff on. This is a feet forward, sit-up-and-beg pullback bar cruiser with a 130HP RC51 motor in it. I drove it. I've been riding bikes since I was 16, which is 40 years ago, I've raced bikes in just about every format I could think of. I drive on the street with people in Volvos, and I have to say, it scared the crap out of me. The good new is that with just a little work and some parts from Honda Racing (HRC) we can get 210 HP out of the motor. That would be better. -----Original Message----- From: owner-fot@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-fot@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of elliottd Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:29 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: New Triumph 2.2 liter Engine It has 140 HP. http://www.triumph.co.uk/site/bikes/page.cfm?BikeID=83 Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: "dos_gusanos" To: "fot" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:51:55 -0700 Subject: Running with VARA This is true, I do refuse to remove my 60 spoke wire wheels and my Lucas flame throwers(Just in case ther's a night race). Maybe I'm just a little sour cuz I really couldn't go to Vegas because I have to drive the Halloween hay wagon. Even though VARA apparently allows anything to run now, from reviewing my Victory Lanes, it looks like they group similar stuff together...............Would you like to hear my feelings on "Vintage NASCAR"?..... .................Cheers Henry Morrison Here's the current List '59 Elva Courier '61 TR3 '64 MG 1100 '59 Renault Dauphine Sports racer '61 Austin Healey 3000 '74 Series III Land Rover (I have died and gone to Heaven) From fot-owner@autox.team.net Wed Oct 1 01:39:51 2003 From: JFrymark@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:40:36 EST Subject: Fwd: Hoosier Tire New Size Tire talked prompted me to get an update from Hoosier. Not good news re: a radial race tire we can use in Vintage, except they have produced a new 50-series radial for Spec Miata series. It's on their web site. John Frymark Now VARA D-Prod ! TR4a Return-Path: Received: from rly-xl05.mx.aol.com (rly-xl05.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.74]) by air-xl02.mail.aol.com (v97.8) with ESMTP id MAILINXL23-5d73fa1356316e; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:59:58 -0500 Received: from buckeye01.comehostwithus.com ([64.140.22.42]) by rly-xl05.mx.aol.com (v97.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXL55-5d73fa1356316e; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:59:32 -0500 Received: from Hoosier ([207.40.213.130]) by buckeye01.comehostwithus.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h9UFxZS07636 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:59:36 -0500 Message-ID: <011101c39efe$b83ea1a0$286414ac@Hoosier> From: "Jeff Speer" To: References: <17.3e636c89.2cd18096@aol.com> Subject: Hoosier Tire New Size Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:58:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-AOL-IP: 64.140.22.42 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.99d.1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain John, At this time we are not going to offer a taller 15" competition radial, like a P195/60ZR-15. We do offer a new steel belted competition radial, the R3S04, but no plans at this time to offer a new size. I appreciate the follow up email. Feel free to keep in contact by browsing our website or email me next year. Thanks again. - Jeff Speer, Hoosier Racing Tire ----- Original Message ----- From: JFrymark@aol.com To: jspeer@hoosiertire.com Sent: October 29, 2003 3:44 PM Subject: Follow-up Jeff, Earlier this year I e-mailed back and forth with you about the need in the vintage racing groups for a 15" 60-series radial race tire in 195 or 205 size. You spoke about the possibilties of adding a product like this to the Hoosier line. I see that you have now launched a Spec Miata tire in a 50-series. While this size might be acceptable to some of our race groups, vintage car gearing really necessitates a 60-series tire. Any chance that Hoosier is closer to what we need? Thanks for your reply. John Frymark