From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 02:10:10 1999 From: JVHT@aol.com To: Autocross List Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 04:09:38 EST Subject: Pictures from Ft. Myers ProSolo in March. The Pictures have been posted on the host clubs website GCAC Website . Or go directly to the page at SCCA ProSolo March 6-7, 1999 John Taylor webmaster@GCAC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 02:55:13 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Team dot net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 01:55:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: 1999 Miata 10th anniv. edition Saw this at the autoshow this week, I'm in Canada. It comes with a 6 spd. tranny. Is this avail. in the USA? In 2nd gear the overall ratio is equivalent to changing the final drive from 4.3 in the 5-speed to 4.7. That would seem to be a noticeable advantage? But the price was scary at the equivalent of $24,000 US. Is this the model to have in BS? -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 04:34:36 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:37:24 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame From: Benjamin D Thatcher > However, we also do the sport a disservice if we portray it as so safe > that we can just spin a car on course without the danger of ever hitting > anything. I'm saying if competitors have that expectation, in time they > may have a rude awakening if they see a car in a fence, upside down or > over a curb. I hope they never see that. But in my 13 years in the sport, > I've seen them all and none of them happened because of unsafe course > design or excessive speed. How many times have you seen a car upside down at an autocross in those 13 years (and roughly how many cars haven't done that)? From what I've been able to gather, thousands of autocross entries have run in our area before one has rolled (so far I haven't heard of a documented case, so the number is probably more like tens of thousands of entrants without a roll over). I'd bet the accident odds aren't noticeably worse than what one sees on the highway or in neighborhoods. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 04:35:07 1999 From: BenoRubin@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:34:49 EST Subject: wanted: 15x6 rims I am looking for a set of 15X6 honda rims (4X100 lug pattern) to mount a set of autox tires to. Please e-mail me if anyone has any available. Beno Rubin benorubin@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 04:54:15 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:57:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Autocross Speed and Safety . In my 20+ years of driving, I see an accident on the roads every day. If people are afraid of 3 accidents in 13 years, they should cacoon themselves in a hermetically sealed box. Life is for the living. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. > The element of danger is ever present and something we really need to > respect and keep formost in our minds. In my 13 years experience I have > witnessed 3 instances of car damage from hitting objects. NONE of these > incidents occured because of speed in excess of the rules. Let me be > specific: > > A low speed event in a small lot had a 90 degree turn following a slalom > at about 35 mph. 25' past the turn was a curb. My future wife, blew the > turn in an EP Datsun 510 and jumped the curb into the bushes. > > A Miata traversing a 45 mph set of offsets overcooked it, did a tank > slapper and nudged into a concrete light pole at about 5 mph. > > A BMW 320is with R1s got loose in a 7 cone slalom (speed about 35 mph), > didn't give up the run, tried to get back to the cone and flipped (driver > received a minor scratch). From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 05:13:49 1999 From: Brian Porter To: Gary Spray , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:13:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Alignment Question My '95R's alignment is much different with the presence of my 215lbs in the drivers-seat. (can't recall exact variance but it was substantial). Prior to this practice, I had the dreaded 65mph shimmy (forcing me to drive 85+). After parking my butt in the driver's seat during alignments, this went away.. (with no other changes) Also, most alignment shops do not properly re-torque everything to spec. I drive home very slowly and torque everything down. Specs are available on www.miata.net. (if you can't find them, let me know I'll dig out my factory manual.) NTB (both Nashua NH/Woburn MA stores) has been extremely tolerant of my often anal approach towards car alignment and have spent considerable time getting things to my satisfaction. -Brian At 09:02 PM 3/31/99 -0600, Gary Spray wrote: >Okay, it's Spring and time for the annual alignment on the ol' Miata. The >question is not how much caster, camber or toe, but should the driver (me) >be sitting in the car while it is aligned? I've heard it both ways (in & >out) but I want to get the consensus of the list. It would seem to me that >if your car has adjustable coilovers and you were corner weighing, you >definitely want to be sitting in the car. But in my Miata, with its stock >shocks and springs, is it still necessary? > > > > >---- >Gary Spray >Topeka, Kansas >Crystal White '90 A (with white Mazda alloys) >M Club #43 >Miata Club Of America >Kansas Region SCCA > >** WAX? I bought it to DRIVE! ** -Brian porterb@mediaone.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 06:35:09 1999 From: Mark Noeltner To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:31:50 -0600 Subject: Who do I write to for car classification? Hi, Lets say I have a car which is seriously mis-classed. It's one of those obscure ones that no one with any brains would seriously consider autoxing anyway :-), so probably no one has ever looked at the classification of this car since it came out many years ago. What's the best procedure for requesting a second look at this car? I would assume that I would need to include all of the performance specs on the car, and I'm guessing it would be good to have an example or two of the current competetors to the car to show the mis-match, then maybe an example or two of cars that would be really close to it?? What else?? Any particular maximum length I should avoid reaching (I assume they don't want to read a book on this)?? Who do I send it to? This is mostly for Street Prepared classification, although the Stock class listing is also pretty uncompetitive. Please note that I'm *not* asking for an "I" class, and that I'm not asking for it do be reclassed where it would be an overdog. Just looking for somewhere where it *might* come in within a couple of seconds of the class winner!! Thanks!! Any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated! Mark Noeltner '95 Probe GT (no! not this car) 136,000 miles and still autocrossing!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 06:36:57 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: msirota@isc.upenn.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:35:56 EST Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB In a message dated 3/31/1999 9:36:56 PM Central Standard Time, msirota@isc.upenn.edu writes: << After hearing this, my gut reaction is to write a letter suggesting that the F500 be moved back into CM (dragging the F440 kicking and screaming along with it), and that the Solo Vee be moved to an appendix in the back of the book as a suggested class for regional competition. >> With F Mod currently a viable class this makes absolutely no sense. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 07:25:42 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:24:22 -0700 Subject: RE: 1999 Miata 10th anniv. edition Went to the local Mazda dealer. He is getting 2. One is sold, the other is 27,885 no negotiation. 500 dep to hold it. Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster Meridian, ID -----Original Message----- From: Wes Shew [mailto:schumi@vcn.bc.ca] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 2:55 AM To: Team dot net Cc: Wes Shew Subject: 1999 Miata 10th anniv. edition Saw this at the autoshow this week, I'm in Canada. It comes with a 6 spd. tranny. Is this avail. in the USA? In 2nd gear the overall ratio is equivalent to changing the final drive from 4.3 in the 5-speed to 4.7. That would seem to be a noticeable advantage? But the price was scary at the equivalent of $24,000 US. Is this the model to have in BS? -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 07:29:12 1999 From: Miatafun1@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:28:56 EST Subject: Z3 2.8L running on gforce R1 I just bought a BMW Z3 with the 2.8L six. I will be running on the new g- force R1 tires from BFG. Suggestions for tire pressures? How about camber, caster and to for autocrossing? Any suggestions for compromise between street and autox settings for suspension? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 07:35:13 1999 From: Matt Murray To: Byron Short Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 09:36:02 -0500 Subject: Re: G-Force wear Creates quite a mental image, doesn't it? :-) Byron Short wrote: > If I had a picture of Dave Saunders with Monica Lewinsky I'd use it to > blackmail him to produce a 225-45-15. > > --Byron -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 07:49:04 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: Jeff@winchell.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:40:57 EST Subject: Re: Spins & Blame In a message dated 4/1/99 6:37:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jeff@Winchell.Com writes: << How many times have you seen a car upside down at an autocross in those 13 years (and roughly how many cars haven't done that)? From what I've been able to gather, thousands of autocross entries have run in our area before one has rolled (so far I haven't heard of a documented case, so the number is probably more like tens of thousands of entrants without a roll over). I'd bet the accident odds aren't noticeably worse than what one sees on the highway or in neighborhoods. >> I think a point to ponder is the effect just one rollover could have on the owner of an autocross site. There may not be a large number of flips or off-course excursions resulting in damage or injury. Just one at the wrong time and place could have a very negative influence on the future of the sport. A publicity black eye for a sport that invites anyone and everyone to come and participate in friendly little parking-lot driving contests. BTW, in our area there have been quite a few rollovers, flips and offs resulting in vehicle damage over a period of 20-plus yrs. that I have been around the sport. Fortunately no serious injuries so far. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 07:57:21 1999 From: Carl Couric To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 09:57:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Scedule South Florida Region At 07:11 PM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >Does any know what the 1999 SOLO II schedule is for the South Florda >Region SCCA or Equipe Rapide? > >Thanks > >Kat Yup... Its fairly unknown right now for SFSCA. As to ER, hit my website below or look at this: May 8/9 South Florida Fairgrounds June 19/20 SF Fairgrounds July 3/4 SF Fairgrounds Aug 14/15 SF Fairgrounds Nov 27/28 SF Fairgrounds As soon as SFSCA gives me the dates, they will be on the website in under a hour. Carl --- Home Page of --- - Equipe Rapide Sports Car Club (ER) in West Palm Beach/Ft. Lauderdale - South Florida Sports Car Assoc. (SFSCA) in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale http://carlc.bocanet.com Why do I live in Florida? So I can race all year long! *** South Park Racing *** Oh my God! You've killed a CONE... You B*st*rd! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:03:37 1999 From: "Brian Bender" To: "'Team.Net'" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:03:02 -0500 Subject: RE: Safety Nazis I Love Bzzzzzt! QUICKEST, not fastest (and they're NOT the same thing). We're running against a clock, not a radar gun. :) ============================================= - Brian Bender 91CP '91 Mustang LX Steel Cities Region, SCCA North Hills SSC ========================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:00:40 -0600 From: Tom Gentry Subject: <<>> And all this time I've been thinking the fastest car and driver (highest velocity) wins!!! Thanks for pointing out my error. Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:21:20 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Brian Bender'" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:19:23 -0600 Subject: RE: Safety Nazis I Love >>Bzzzzzt! QUICKEST, not fastest (and they're NOT the same thing). We're running against a clock, not a radar gun. :)<< Depends on the definition of "fast". When watching a race, most people would consider the lead car to be "fastest" even though someone else might have the highest top speed. In a drag race, we routinely say the winning car is faster, even though the other "slower" car may have a higher trap speed. It's really quite simple, he who gets to the finish line first is fastest. When you measure for "fast" are you looking at peak or average velocity? It sounds like you are equating "fast" with peak velocity and "quick" with average velocity, it could just as easily be interpreted the other way. <<>> My point was, I could drive with the most control, precision, and skill at the car's limits... and still lose because someone else was "faster" or "quicker". There are no points for style in motorsports. Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:29:23 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: Mark Noeltner Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:26:54 -0800 Subject: Re: Who do I write to for car classification? Along this thought, maybe someone can help with another question. I am curious about the Street Tire classification. The way I read it, you are in whatever stock class your car would fall into with the addition of an "ST" following the class designator, ie ASST, BSST, etc. Am I correct with interpreting it this way? Is this like a "shadow" class from stock? My question comes from having a car in our area, specifically a Miata with Eibach springs as his only mod and running on street tires(treadwear above 180). My interpretation would put it in BSST, correct? Gary '97 Cavalier Z24 ST From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:37:39 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:39:11 -0600 Subject: ST Classification..any solid rules? What do you all think ST will turn into? Im debating that the STU class will only allow the "types" of cars allowed in ST. But..what defines the "type" of car allowed in ST?? A friend in a GSX would love to go whole-hog on modifications, but I dont belive the GSX (Eclipse or not) fits the "type" of car allowed in ST. Thoughts? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:39:33 1999 From: Dave To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 08:35:00 -0700 Subject: ST PAX Hey does anybody know the PAX for the three Street Touring classes??? TIA Dave-Kizerian Utah Region SCCA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:50:29 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: Dave Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:48:02 -0800 Subject: Re: ST PAX I beleive it is .774 Gary 97 Cavalier Z24 ST Dave wrote: > > Hey does anybody know the PAX for the three Street Touring classes??? > TIA > Dave-Kizerian > Utah Region SCCA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:52:30 1999 From: whitney To: "Mohler, Jeff" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 09:51:19 -0800 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? I believe the GSX/talon AWD fits, because the 2WD version is ST legal, and the unlimited drivetrain allowance would cover the AWD system. Check with Howard Duncan to be sure, but I have brought it up to them before, and remeber it being OK. Stan Whitney DP/EP CRX (still for sale - now a Natl. tour winner) GS Talon AWD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 08:56:13 1999 From: Hiram Cuebas To: "'Mohler, Jeff'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:57:02 -0500 Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? If I`m not mistaken the cars allowed for this class would be NORMALLY ASPIRATED four passanger vehicle with a engine size of 3.1 or less. Having four doors doesn`t matter providing that the car is made in four door configuration. Example; Neon, VW Jetta, Civic qualify and Preludes and Sciroccos would be excluded. So I don`t think that your friend GSX would quilify for any ST class. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [SMTP:jeff.mohler@wilcom.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 10:39 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > What do you all think ST will turn into? > > Im debating that the STU class will only allow the "types" of cars > allowed > in ST. > > But..what defines the "type" of car allowed in ST?? > > A friend in a GSX would love to go whole-hog on modifications, but I > dont > belive the GSX (Eclipse or not) fits the "type" of car allowed in ST. > > Thoughts? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:00:20 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: Miatafun1@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:00:10 EST Subject: Re: Z3 2.8L running on gforce R1 In a message dated 4/1/99 8:34:01 AM Central Standard Time, Miatafun1@aol.com writes: > just bought a BMW Z3 with the 2.8L six. I will be running on the new g- > force R1 tires from BFG. Suggestions for tire pressures? How about camber, > caster and to for autocrossing? Any suggestions for compromise between > street > and autox settings for suspension? The only factory-provided suspension adjustment for the Z3 is front toe. Zero toe is a good compromise between street and race. I haven't used the g-Force R1's on my 2.8 Z3 coupe, but I'd bet that low to mid 40 psig range with 2 - 3 psig higher front than rear is about right based on everything I've heard. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:05:27 1999 From: Dave To: Hiram Cuebas Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 09:00:41 -0700 Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? Preludes ARE legal...the rule is that it must have seating for four....99 rules have added coupe to the wording, but preludes were legal last year for some reason too... $0.02 At 10:57 AM 4/1/99 -0500, you wrote: >If I`m not mistaken the cars allowed for this class would be NORMALLY >ASPIRATED four passanger vehicle with a engine size of 3.1 or less. >Having four doors doesn`t matter providing that the car is made in four >door configuration. Example; Neon, VW Jetta, Civic qualify and Preludes >and Sciroccos would be excluded. >So I don`t think that your friend GSX would quilify for any ST class. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:07:36 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:20:33 -0700 Subject: K tire pressures I am moving from a FWD car to a RWD car. Ran BFG before now on Kumho. Stats of the car: 2000 lb, 225 HP, 225 ftlb torque, Turbo. front heavy due to larger motor. Weight split is 55/45 F/R. 205/50-15 Kumho. No negative camber yet. Will be -1 for each front. Starting points for pressure? I was thinking 35 front/28 rear. Good or bad? TIA Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:11:18 1999 From: Mark Todd To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:08:38 -0600 Subject: ESP DSM's Hey y'all, Can someone please send me the horsepower and weight of a well-prepared ostensibly (my new favorite word) legal ESP Talon/Eclipse? Please reply privately since I'm on the digest. Many thanks, Mark Todd #323 E Modified Ostensibly Legal Racing Team From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:18:42 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'whitney'" , Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:20:20 -0700 Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? So..a 350Hp stock VR4 is legal too..right? Now, lemme crank up another 150 -easy- hp for STU, of if im really mean, 200. Im just of the opinion, that ST is built for the ricers, cars that were -never- meant to be a performance car in the first place. > -----Original Message----- > From: whitney [SMTP:whitneys@mindspring.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:51 AM > To: Mohler, Jeff; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > I believe the GSX/talon AWD fits, because the 2WD version is ST legal, and > the unlimited drivetrain allowance would cover the AWD system. Check with > Howard Duncan to be sure, but I have brought it up to them before, and > remeber it being OK. > > Stan Whitney > > DP/EP CRX (still for sale - now a Natl. tour winner) > GS Talon AWD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:18:47 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Gary McDaniel Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 08:15:08 -0800 Subject: Re: Who do I write to for car classification? Can you change springs in Stock? I don't think so. Sounds like CSP/ST to me. --Pat Kelly Gary McDaniel wrote: > Along this thought, maybe someone can help with another question. I am > curious about the Street Tire classification. The way I read it, you are > in whatever stock class your car would fall into with the addition of an > "ST" following the class designator, ie ASST, BSST, etc. Am I correct > with interpreting it this way? Is this like a "shadow" class from stock? > My question comes from having a car in our area, specifically a Miata > with Eibach springs as his only mod and running on street > tires(treadwear above 180). My interpretation would put it in BSST, > correct? > Gary > '97 Cavalier Z24 ST From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:19:33 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:21:02 -0700 Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? That's my point exactly...I dont see purpose built "sports cars" to fit under ST* > -----Original Message----- > From: Hiram Cuebas [SMTP:HCUEBAS@techforce.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:57 AM > To: 'Mohler, Jeff'; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > If I`m not mistaken the cars allowed for this class would be NORMALLY > ASPIRATED four passanger vehicle with a engine size of 3.1 or less. > Having four doors doesn`t matter providing that the car is made in four > door configuration. Example; Neon, VW Jetta, Civic qualify and Preludes > and Sciroccos would be excluded. > So I don`t think that your friend GSX would quilify for any ST class. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mohler, Jeff [SMTP:jeff.mohler@wilcom.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 10:39 AM > > To: autox@autox.team.net > > Subject: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > > > What do you all think ST will turn into? > > > > Im debating that the STU class will only allow the "types" of cars > > allowed > > in ST. > > > > But..what defines the "type" of car allowed in ST?? > > > > A friend in a GSX would love to go whole-hog on modifications, but I > > dont > > belive the GSX (Eclipse or not) fits the "type" of car allowed in ST. > > > > Thoughts? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:19:55 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Gary McDaniel Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 08:16:08 -0800 Subject: Re: ST PAX That's the RTP index. the PAX index has published one yet, as far as I know. --Pat Kelly Gary McDaniel wrote: > I beleive it is .774 > Gary > 97 Cavalier Z24 ST > > Dave wrote: > > > > Hey does anybody know the PAX for the three Street Touring classes??? > > TIA > > Dave-Kizerian > > Utah Region SCCA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:49:12 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:49:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB A. E Trier wrote: > Inflammatory remarks > from non-FMod competitors notwithstanding, I still think we can work > things out in FMod with a little more thought and effort. I got an awful lot of replies to my late night proposal, and while not a soul agreed with me, I appreciate that nobody flamed me either. Thank you. I didn't mean to be inflammatory, though I recognize now that my comments were appropriately taken that way. Bruce commented that "FM is a viable class." I agree, under the assumption that the F500 and Solo Vee remain competitive with each other. The Solo Vee community appears to have given up on that goal, so does the class remain viable with only F500? When the F440 was moved from CM to SCM and later FM, it reduced one of the largest classes. Yes, CM continues to be wildly successful, and I agree that the reintroduction of the F500 would create course dependencies, but the cars to appearto have similar performance (that did not appear to be true with the F440). With the F500 back in CM, we'd all see a lot more local competition, and could once again be a major force at Nationals. Personally, I'd welcome the F500 back into the class, though there are probably those who disagree. I recognize that this next thought will be taken as hostile by the Solo Vee community, but I'll put it out there anyway. I don't think I'm the only one who feels that the Solo Vee was a mistake, and should be allowed to die a quiet death. I don't think the Solo community should be involved in creating and maintaining its own formula car class. I just don't like the whole idea, philosophically. The Solo Vee is the exact opposite of the CM success formula. CM is great, among other reasons, because the cars can move back and forth between road racing and autocrossing so easily. The Solo Vee experiment runs exactly counter to a known successful approach. I just don't think it's the right thing for the Solo community, and I certainly wouldn't support having a dedicated class for them. I also realize that a whole bunch of people have devoted a lot of time, effort, money, and blood to building Solo Vees, which would become obsolete under my proposal. Please don't take it personally; it's not meant that way. You just can't please all of the people all of the time. Mark P.S. No flame is intended here. If you think I'm angry, please re- read. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:50:45 1999 From: "Meck, Christa" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:43:43 -0500 Subject: sorry for the spam Nate Lucier - (sorry for any misspellings) Send me email. I have some questions for you. - christa From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 09:51:14 1999 From: Lloyd Loring To: Dave Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:49:42 -0500 Subject: Re: ST PAX >Hey does anybody know the PAX for the three Street Touring classes??? >TIA >Dave-Kizerian >Utah Region SCCA The last time I talked to Dave Beck who compiles the official PAX handicaps, he stated that there was insufficient data available to create a useful handicap for the Street Touring classes. So there are none at this time. Regions are free to adopt their own handicaps, but they will not be PAX handicaps. If this changes, I'll advise with a message here. Lloyd Loring From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 10:10:02 1999 From: Hiram Cuebas To: "'Howell, J. Brett'" , Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:10:54 -0500 Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? My understanding was that the class was designed for Sedans. I know that a few months back we had a long discussing about what the defenition of sedan was. The way that it was explained to me was that as long as the car in question had a sibling that had four door then it would qualify. This then leaves any sport based car out of ST. Preludes and Sciroccos are the sports car based car for there manufacturies so I would think that they would be excluded from ST. > -----Original Message----- > From: Howell, J. Brett [SMTP:jbh@tpghq.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:40 AM > To: 'Hiram Cuebas'; 'Mohler, Jeff'; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > Preludes and Sciroccos would be excluded? Why? They are sedans (belted > seating positions for 4 people) with engine sizes under 3.1L. > > -Brett > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hiram Cuebas [SMTP:HCUEBAS@techforce.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 10:57 AM > > To: 'Mohler, Jeff'; autox@autox.team.net > > Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > > > If I`m not mistaken the cars allowed for this class would be > NORMALLY > > ASPIRATED four passanger vehicle with a engine size of 3.1 or less. > > Having four doors doesn`t matter providing that the car is made in > four > > door configuration. Example; Neon, VW Jetta, Civic qualify and > Preludes > > and Sciroccos would be excluded. > > So I don`t think that your friend GSX would quilify for any ST > class. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mohler, Jeff [SMTP:jeff.mohler@wilcom.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 10:39 AM > > > To: autox@autox.team.net > > > Subject: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > > > > > What do you all think ST will turn into? > > > > > > Im debating that the STU class will only allow the "types" of cars > > > allowed > > > in ST. > > > > > > But..what defines the "type" of car allowed in ST?? > > > > > > A friend in a GSX would love to go whole-hog on modifications, but > I > > > dont > > > belive the GSX (Eclipse or not) fits the "type" of car allowed in > ST. > > > > > > Thoughts? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 10:15:31 1999 From: "Fedja Jeleskovic" To: Craig Blome Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:13:47 -0500 Subject: Re: SP class 'realignment'? >Curious, I dug through old SEB minutes until I found >the proposal (at > for >those who haven't read it recently). I read it over Interesting thing is that all 94+ Mustangs are in the same line. Is that mean IRS for all of them? Fedja looks like the light at the end of the tunnel From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 10:42:28 1999 From: whitney To: "Fedja Jeleskovic" , Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:38:59 -0800 Subject: Re: SP class 'realignment'? The last fastrack put the IRS cobra on it's own line in ESP. I guess that's a good thing for the other cars Stan At 12:13 PM 4/1/99 -0500, Fedja Jeleskovic wrote: > > >>Curious, I dug through old SEB minutes until I found >>the proposal (at >> for >>those who haven't read it recently). I read it over > >Interesting thing is that all 94+ Mustangs are in the same line. Is that >mean IRS for all of them? > >Fedja >looks like the light at the end of the tunnel > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 10:49:49 1999 From: SlyFoxRc@aol.com To: ttarleto@ix.netcom.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:49:00 EST Subject: Re: Toe to toe & bad nutz In a message dated 3/31/99 7:35:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, ttarleto@ix.netcom.com writes: << Talk of bolt stretch , ect is of course correct , for most bolts. There are some bolts and nuts that are different, and lugnuts are one. The clamping force of stock lugnuts comes fron the taper on the nut and wheel. This wedge adds lots of clamping force to the wheel, and also increases the friction of turning the nut. What this means is it takes more torque to tighten the nut. This means that 85 ftlb does not stretch the bolt , and as lug nuts are hardened more that most nuts, the nut is not streatched either. So lugnuts will last a long time. >> So let me get this straight, when the local Yo-YO at the tire store hits your lugs with a 300+ lb. ft. air wrench the stud is really not stretching when it breaks, it is just a physical phenomenon that it lets go? I don't want the impression past on to especially the Neon and Miata competitors that the 100 lb. ft. recommended torque setting and taking the lugs on and off repeatedly, as in autocross, is not something that they can just consider as having no impact on the nuts and studs. It is just simply not true. It would be one of the items that I would check stretch at least at the beginning and end of the season and probably change studs and nuts at the end of the second season one way or the other.......small investment to avoid a big embarassment and potential accident. Tracy Sandberg Sly Fox Racing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 11:04:40 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: "Mohler, Jeff" , "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:06:02 -0700 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > > What do you all think ST will turn into? > > Im debating that the STU class will only allow the "types" of cars allowed > in ST. > > But..what defines the "type" of car allowed in ST?? > > A friend in a GSX would love to go whole-hog on modifications, but I dont > belive the GSX (Eclipse or not) fits the "type" of car allowed in ST. Regardless of weather it can be considered a 'sedan' or 'coupe' or not, it's a forced aspirated car, and is explicitly disallowed for ST. " IV. VEHICLE ELIGIBILITY All sedans/coupes (four seats, four factory seat belts, not sports car based), maximum displacement 3.1L, normally aspirated. " -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 11:12:42 1999 From: Dave Hillman To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:13:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: ProSolo Multiple Drivers Question Can 3 drivers share a car at a ProSolo, with 2 in a NationalSeries 'open' class, and the third in L1 or L2? I have my '99 ProSolo rulebook in front of me, and I'm still not sure. Section 11.A Entry and Registration says; 2. Drivers may only enter in one class per event. Additionally, a car may be driven by no more than two drivers in the same class, except for ProSeries blah blah blah. Section 7.D NationalSeries Classes indicates that there are 31 classes, and L1 and L2 are classes just like AS and FS, for example. If that is correct, I think the answer to my question is yes. I was fine until I got to Section 11.G NationalSeries Two-Driver Teams; The following are rules for a NationalSeries two-driver team sharing the same car in the same class. If there are two drivers in a car ( ie in a specific class *and the corresponding ladies class* ) the grid position will be at the discretion of event officials. The emphasis on the corresponding ladies class bit is mine, because that is where I'm getting lost. If there are 31 classes, including L1 and L2, there isn't really a corresponding ladies class for each open class. And Section 11.E Run Order specifies L1 and L2 as distinct classes, just like 7.D. Is L1 *really* a seperate class from, say, AS? Does it depend on whether or not the Ladies class in quetion is grouped with the open class in 11.E? That would help us, but doesn't seem fair. ( Only SS, and STU are grouped with L1. ) This should be fairly simple, but confusion reigns. Can someone 'splain this to me? Thanks. -- D a v i d H i l l m a n nma, scca, scscc, imoc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 11:28:59 1999 From: "A.J. Rystad" To: Matt Murray Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:27:02 -0800 Subject: Re: G-Force wear Byron, You mean to tell me that with all your computer knowledge, plus the fine staff at Huck & CHuck Enterprises, you can't creat^H^H^H^H^H find that picture... :-) A.J. Rystad 92 MR2T AS At 09:36 AM 4/1/99 -0500, Matt Murray wrote: >Creates quite a mental image, doesn't it? :-) > >Byron Short wrote: > >> If I had a picture of Dave Saunders with Monica Lewinsky I'd use it to >> blackmail him to produce a 225-45-15. >> >> --Byron > >-- >Matt Murray > >My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net >It was mattm@nassau.cv.net >Please note the change in your address books > >As always, work is: >mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 11:47:59 1999 From: Joe Goeke To: "team.net (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:39:11 -0800 Subject: TC Kline and Tri Point Anyone have there numbers handy? THANKS! Joe Goeke Setup Software Developer ONYX Software Corporation Direct: (425) 519-4097 Fax: (425) 990-3343 E-mail: joeg@onyx.com Web: http://www.onyx.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 12:07:49 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: Hiram Cuebas Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:55:08 -0800 Subject: Street Touring - Oh the confusion! Let's first state that ST is NOT Street Tire! Yes, the ST1 class is for street tires only but lets not confuse the two. STR and STU allow R compound tires. Second, the rules state on page 250, Appendix K of the 1999 Solo Rule Book under Vehicle Eligibility: All sedans/coupes (four seats, four factory belts, non sports car based), maximum displacement of 3.1l, normally asperated. No turbos or superchargers allowed. Yes, the non-sports car based wording gets a little gray, but if you have a car that you think is a killer, ask Howard. Preludes are not sports car based. M3's are not sports car based (they are illegal for other reasons). AB From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 12:08:00 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: Dave Hillman Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:46:11 -0800 Subject: Re: ProSolo Multiple Drivers Question You can do what you describe. L1 and L2 are the 'Ladies' classes in the Open class. Just 2 of the 31 allowable classes. L1 is a totally different class than AS or FS or ES...but you can run one of those cars in L1. All this is trying to say is that they may grid (run) you with the coresponding open class if there are a few people in your car. They would do this in order to keep the event running smoothly. Just a disclaimer really. I think, if you were to MAXIMIZE the drivers in one car at a Pro, you could do 8 people: 2 Pro, but only one can make the Challenge 2 Pro Ladies, but only one can make the Challenge 2 Open 2 Ladies Open Maybe this is wrong but who would do that?????? AB Can 3 drivers share a car at a ProSolo, with 2 in a NationalSeries 'open' class, and the third in L1 or L2? I have my '99 ProSolo rulebook in front of me, and I'm still not sure. Section 11.A Entry and Registration says; 2. Drivers may only enter in one class per event. Additionally, a car may be driven by no more than two drivers in the same class, except for ProSeries blah blah blah. Section 7.D NationalSeries Classes indicates that there are 31 classes, and L1 and L2 are classes just like AS and FS, for example. If that is correct, I think the answer to my question is yes. I was fine until I got to Section 11.G NationalSeries Two-Driver Teams; The following are rules for a NationalSeries two-driver team sharing the same car in the same class. If there are two drivers in a car ( ie in a specific class *and the corresponding ladies class* ) the grid position will be at the discretion of event officials. The emphasis on the corresponding ladies class bit is mine, because that is where I'm getting lost. If there are 31 classes, including L1 and L2, there isn't really a corresponding ladies class for each open class. And Section 11.E Run Order specifies L1 and L2 as distinct classes, just like 7.D. Is L1 *really* a seperate class from, say, AS? Does it depend on whether or not the Ladies class in quetion is grouped with the open class in 11.E? That would help us, but doesn't seem fair. ( Only SS, and STU are grouped with L1. ) This should be fairly simple, but confusion reigns. Can someone 'splain this to me? Thanks. -- D a v i d H i l l m a n nma, scca, scscc, imoc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 12:10:54 1999 From: "Larry R. Metz" <75304.1645@compuserve.com> To: Mark Sirota , Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:05:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB I want to respond to the comments about the Solo Vee classing. I likewise want to assure everyone there is no flaming intended. I am a vee owner, started soloing when they were real vees. I agree that we went down the wrong road. Each step of modifications seemed to be a bit late to stay competitive, but seemed like the best individual choice at each step. I also have a 1200 vee, and have been the lowly voice in the field asking that we return to the racing legal specs. As the legend cars, I believe that a racing legal vee would fit nicely in a prepared class, but has not been the popular thing to consider. I also believe that a purely legal vee class would become just as popular as the CM class did when it started. I am part of the efforts to organize the solo vee owners, as I believe it is the best option available now, as I object to further pursuit of modifications. I see our role as SVOA is to be a "friendly" group, within SCCA, who are wanting to stabolize the present rules, and enhance participation until which it becomes a "popular and accepted" decision to create a single class. I believe that this effort fits very well into the Solo Boards overriding values of: Increased participation and involvement.....variety of classes to satisfy a range of economies and commitment......evolving rules in a planned manner. A Solo vee class with stable rules would address permitting smaller budgets to experience the thrill of running a mod car for a number of years. With our promoting the cars that should increase participation, and it would abide by the value of evolving in a planned manner. It would be the only one type car class. I participated in the efforts years back when the CM effort was created. It began in Central Division, as we created a FF class and a FV class to run in our division to demonstrate the interest. The results of that year resulted in creating the CM class. Event results clearly show that there was less participation of FF cars than there were FV and DM vees combined, during the divisional series, the divisional championship, and the national championship event but the decision was no to vees? Numbers clearly showed there were more vee based cars actually running, but the fords were preferred by the decision makers. Luckily, the fords did rapidly increase as a result of the decision. Reversing the mods on the solo vee then would have been a lot less painful than now, as it was not so far developed. The vee and solo vee issue has been a struggle since the early eighties. Consensus among competitors is not a realistic goal. The Solo Board may at sometime in the future change its thinking. For me, I will continue to enjoy my vee and solo vee in solo events. I value the friendships and general benefits of SCCA, and will remain working within the system. At local events and even divisionals, we can request special classes, like we do with Shelby club, Fiero Club, Corvette Club, Shriners, etc., to encourage more participants. Patience may be in our favor in the long run. Something that I suppose is human nature is the issue of limiting classes or new classes. There are national classes that continue to be have low participation for years, but starting a new class seems to need major numbers. Remember in Covey training, the theory of exclusivity?....maybe not the right words. I do not believe there is a limited number of classes in the world. If the solo rules had 25 more classes with resulting 700 more people at nationals, who would benefit, and who would not. Why is it so important to "create limits" in this situation? Who's pride, or who's ego is on the line here. If no one shows up for a class, then the class does not continue, but why can we not permit some efforts at change? The winner of SCM a few years back was truly a national champion? I guess that is long enough......Whether the vee is classed correctly or not, whether I have any hope of a so called national title or not, I figure I am a winner each additional year that I have health and finances enough to drive it! I value the friendships and organization far beyond a little trophy that will gain dust and mean little to anyone else, it is only in the mind of you and your friends in SCCA. Just remember how hard it is to explain to a stranger what kind of racing we do, and then discussing the issue of national champion status, it is only in your mind, of little significance to this stranger. Larry in red vee #6 or #66 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 12:13:13 1999 From: "I.Mannix" To: Joe Goeke Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:12:56 -0700 Subject: Re: TC Kline and Tri Point http://www.propartsusa.net Or, since I just opened it, 614/771-7744 I.Mannix >Anyone have there numbers handy? THANKS! > >Joe Goeke >Setup Software Developer >ONYX Software Corporation >Direct: (425) 519-4097 Fax: (425) 990-3343 >E-mail: joeg@onyx.com Web: http://www.onyx.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 12:39:13 1999 From: Dave Hillman To: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:40:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: ProSolo Multiple Drivers Question On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com wrote: > I think, if you were to MAXIMIZE the drivers in one car at a Pro, you could > do 8 people: > 2 Pro, but only one can make the Challenge > 2 Pro Ladies, but only one can make the Challenge > 2 Open > 2 Ladies Open Depending on the car, you could get more than that, I think. Couldn't you, say, run an A-stock M3 with 2 drivers in AS, 2 in CSP, 2 in AP, and 2 in EM? Plus 2 more in L1, 2 in P4, and 2 in PL? How come there is no Section for 14 driver teams? Thanks for the answer to my original question. -- D a v i d H i l l m a n nma, scca, scscc, imoc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 13:52:23 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "Joshua Hadler" , "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:55:16 -0800 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? Joshua Hadler is right again, as usual. :) To "tee" off his comments on the street tire thread, I've been advocating a class (in addition to S, SP, P, M, ST, etc) that would have the mission to encourage *street legal* improvements to car tech and driver skill. I envision something that maintains the categories of SP for the cars, and no R compound tires, and no trailering, but allows mods to the car that are legal in the State of residency. Since my bias is towards turbocars (can't help it, I'm just simply fascinated with the darned things and have been for literally decades) I'll give a couple of examples of mods that aren't legal for turbocars in SP, for example, but would make perfect sense for the street. For the record, I run in ESP with my Ford Mustang SVO Intercooled Turbo. Cam sprockets: my own 5-speed turbocar doesn't launch that great at a light (I'm talking about a street-legal start, no "exhibition of speed" stuff) against an ordinary automatic-equipped passenger sedan (!). When I install an adjustable sprocket and advance it, I can move that "oomph" lower. Competitive advantage at an autox? Sure hope so. Practical and legal on the street? Sure. Bypass or blowoff valves: on the street these improve driveability, and make larger, more efficient intercoolers or remote intercoolers more practical there. Competitive advantage -- sure. Street legal and practical -- sure. All the stiffening devices that Mustangs would like to add: street legal, so why not? Competitive advantage? Sure. Boost levels etc.: lot of comments about turbopower, but it's a bogey man. As mentioned before, it's torque that wins autoxes, and skill, not hp. Plenty of cars with less power can and do beat me. Street legal? Far as I know. Competitive advantage? Sure. Just using these examples (got lot's more, but don't want to clog things up), and starting with SP categories for cars, naturally over time these categories could shift as experience is gained. But then, those categories probably change over time for SP anyway, yes? My experience at developing and running international sporting events (credentials, not bragging) taught me that this approach to rules actually improves equipment (in this case, both cars and accessories) as manufacturers start integrating the improvements that (a) work and (b) are popular. And because it's another way to "play the game", it broadens the base of participants, which is good for the sport. Since a class like Prepared allows the removal of headlights (and allows any turbo, but not any intercooler (?!)), lacking the history of Prepared class I still can't help but wonder if that's why my own car has modular halogen headlights that can be unclipped and removed in literally moments, with a nice set of funnels pointed into the engine compartment. A class like this could put someone like me in a position to get beaten by those who drive what are euphemistically called "ricers" (gonna have to come up with another name). That's OK with me, if it encourages more players for the sport. My two cents, to stimulate constructive dialogue. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com San Diego, CA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 14:01:24 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "TEAM.NET" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:05:11 -0800 Subject: IROC, therefore IAM And while I'm on my soapbox about a Street Legal class -- -- since the List quite rightly emphasizes that driver skill, seat time, etc., needs to be emphasized over equipment, and so-and-so could win in a shoebox, etc., how about something along the lines of the old IROC race? Remember, a bunch of drivers including Mark Donahue, RIP, in identically prepared Camaros? All we'd need is a sponsor, such as Daimler/Chrysler, putting up a set of identically prepared Neons, for example. Then let the best man or woman win (did I mention more than once or twice before, I think that men and women should compete for the same prizes, in addition to their own?). THAT would be fun to watch, and I'd bet fun for the really competitive drivers. Now, of course, someone will chime in with "we tried that once before", etc. Hey, I'm still new, I don't have all the history yet! Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com San Diego, CA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 14:57:43 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:55:15 -0600 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? ----- Original Message ----- > I envision something that maintains the categories of SP for the cars, and > no R compound tires, and no trailering, How someone gets their car to an event has no place in the rules and is, quite frankly, no ones business but my own. I want to keep my mileage down so I trailer my autocross car with an old truck. >but allows mods to the car that are legal in the State of residency. This would give an unfair advantage to drivers in CA, NY, etc that have strict emissions laws. Heck, everybody would then liscence their car in Alabama where the only thing that matters is the noise level. Someone actually liscensed a Porsche 917 here once. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:02:28 1999 From: whitney To: "richard nichols" , "TEAM.NET" Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:01:08 -0800 Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM D-Stock and B Stock come pretty close to providing just this kind of entertainment - D -Stock more so because of ythe healthy contigency payouts. Where do you think all those ex-national champions surfaced from in the 40-50 car classes :) Stan Whitney From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:07:40 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:20:33 -0700 Subject: K tire pressures I am moving from a FWD car to a RWD car. Ran BFG before now on Kumho. Stats of the car: 2000 lb, 225 HP, 225 ftlb torque, Turbo. front heavy due to larger motor. Weight split is 55/45 F/R. 205/50-15 Kumho. No negative camber yet. Will be -1 for each front. Starting points for pressure? I was thinking 35 front/28 rear. Good or bad? TIA Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:09:59 1999 From: John Lieberman To: David Hawkins Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:12:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Course design/speed limits Excellent point, David. A pre-drive is always better than having to change things after the event has started. But, if you can't work in a pre-drive, you can at least have one or two of the fastest Stock or Street Prepared cars make the first runs. That way you still can make your adjustments before you get too deep into things. My point was geared more toward verifying the 75 mph Neon comment that appeared early in this thread. John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman David Hawkins wrote: > > >Simple! You ask the drivers of the fastest Stock and > >Street Prepared cars that have rev limiters at what speed those rev > >limiters kick in in second gear!!! Then you monitor those cars while > >they're on course. If a given car's rev limiter kicks in at 63mph in > >second gear, and that car bumps the rev limiter a couple of times on > >course without going into third, you know you're within limits. > > While I agree that this will tell you what speed you have, I think that > during the course of the event is the wrong time to find out. If that > car is running in third for a good amount of time, the course really > needs to be changed, and if you change it halfway through the event > it's not very fair to the competitors. > > What I've seen done is to have one of the faster cars do a test run > with a safety steward on board. This gives a second set of eyes > to watch the speedo on top of hearing the rev limiter. After setting > up our course this past week, I ran it in my 93 Mr2 Turbo (ASP car > which I no longer run, and which is putting out about 40HP more than > when I ran it thanks to boost control...so I guess it's really an EM car :). > There was one place where I hit 75, we stopped the car and put in > another gate. That slowed the course by 15mph. With two additional > gates, we went from a 75-80mph course to one that was just as much > fun and challenging while not going above 65mph. There's probably > only one car in my region that could run that course faster than I was > in the Mr2, and I don't think he was THAT much faster. > > David Hawkins > 93 Mr2 Turbo ASP retired > 85 Mr2 CSP/ITA > TLS #15 > Gulf Coast Region Solo II Co-Chairman From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:19:36 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "Greg Lee" , "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:23:12 -0800 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? >>but allows mods to the car that are legal in the State of residency. > Heck, everybody would then liscence their car in Alabama Not if they had to drive their cars to the meets! :) But seriously, there are residency requirements for registering automobiles -- even in Alabama, yes? But point well taken -- it's a loophole that m/b considered. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com San Diego, CA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:32:14 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: "richard nichols" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:30:10 -0800 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? Not if you are in the military, you can register your auto in any state you want... AB "richard nichols" on 04/01/99 02:23:12 PM Please respond to "richard nichols" To: "Greg Lee" , "Team.Net" cc: (bcc: Andrew Bettencourt/FIELD SALES/Kingston) Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? >>but allows mods to the car that are legal in the State of residency. > Heck, everybody would then liscence their car in Alabama Not if they had to drive their cars to the meets! :) But seriously, there are residency requirements for registering automobiles -- even in Alabama, yes? But point well taken -- it's a loophole that m/b considered. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com San Diego, CA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:42:44 1999 From: Matt Murray To: Greg Lee Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:43:28 -0500 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? So is he looking for a co-drive? Greg Lee wrote: > Alabama where the only thing that matters is the noise level. Someone > actually liscensed a Porsche 917 here once. -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:43:36 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: richard nichols , "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:41:54 -0700 Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM richard nichols wrote: > > And while I'm on my soapbox about a Street Legal class -- > > -- since the List quite rightly emphasizes that driver skill, seat time, > etc., needs to be emphasized over equipment, and so-and-so could win in a > shoebox, etc., how about something along the lines of the old IROC race? > Remember, a bunch of drivers including Mark Donahue, RIP, in identically > prepared Camaros? > > All we'd need is a sponsor, such as Daimler/Chrysler, putting up a set of > identically prepared Neons, for example. Then let the best man or woman win > (did I mention more than once or twice before, I think that men and women > should compete for the same prizes, in addition to their own?). > > THAT would be fun to watch, and I'd bet fun for the really competitive > drivers. > > Now, of course, someone will chime in with "we tried that once before", etc. > Hey, I'm still new, I don't have all the history yet! Uhm, that's called D-Stock at Nationals.... ;-) Also the Neon Super Solo. :-) -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 15:54:00 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Joshua Hadler , richard nichols , Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:50:58 -0800 Subject: RE: IROC, therefore IAM Over twenty years ago, they had some competition at the end of Nationals in Dallas/Ft. Worth in TR-7s. All the national champs of that year got to drive these vehicles in some sort of special run off. Don't ask me HOW I remember this. What I really remember from back then was the ghost town of an airport nationals were at, the broken windows and defunct escalators in the terminal (we got to use the building for something), a trip to some sort of wild animal park, and sitting in a laundry mat. Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Hadler [SMTP:jhadler@rmi.net] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 2:42 PM > To: richard nichols; Team.Net > Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM > > richard nichols wrote: > > > > And while I'm on my soapbox about a Street Legal class -- > > > > -- since the List quite rightly emphasizes that driver skill, seat time, > > etc., needs to be emphasized over equipment, and so-and-so could win in > a > > shoebox, etc., how about something along the lines of the old IROC race? > > Remember, a bunch of drivers including Mark Donahue, RIP, in > identically > > prepared Camaros? > > > > All we'd need is a sponsor, such as Daimler/Chrysler, putting up a set > of > > identically prepared Neons, for example. Then let the best man or woman > win > > (did I mention more than once or twice before, I think that men and > women > > should compete for the same prizes, in addition to their own?). > > > > THAT would be fun to watch, and I'd bet fun for the really competitive > > drivers. > > > > Now, of course, someone will chime in with "we tried that once before", > etc. > > Hey, I'm still new, I don't have all the history yet! > > Uhm, that's called D-Stock at Nationals.... ;-) > > Also the Neon Super Solo. :-) > > -Josh2 > > -- > Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR > '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro > > jhadler@rmi.net > http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 16:11:18 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: Mark Sirota Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:08:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB Mark Sirota wrote: > The Solo Vee is the exact opposite of the CM success formula. CM is > great, among other reasons, because the cars can move back and forth > between road racing and autocrossing so easily. Very few autocrossing FFs still have a realistic resale market in the road racing world. Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 16:38:21 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Mark Todd" , Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:40:30 -0600 Subject: Re: ESP DSM's >Can someone please send me the horsepower and weight >of a well-prepared ostensibly (my new favorite word) legal >ESP Talon/Eclipse? Just send me the Horsepower, you can keep the weight ;-) Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 17:39:03 1999 From: "Mac Crossett" To: "Team.Net" , Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:38:54 -0600 Subject: re: ESP DSM's >Can someone please send me the horsepower and weight >of a well-prepared ostensibly (my new favorite word) legal >ESP Talon/Eclipse? >Please reply privately since I'm on the digest. >Many thanks, >Mark Todd >#323 E Modified >Ostensibly Legal Racing Team The lightest possible 95+ AWD Talon would be about 3130lbs with a full tank of gas. Mine is 3231lbs, but it has A/C and ABS, both of which were options on the Talon. The Mitsu would be significantly heavier, since the A/C, sunroof and power seat were all standard. The lightest FWD would be about 2890lbs, with the Eagle again being lighter, due to the GS-T's standard A/C. I'm not sure, but I think the 89-94's would be about 50-100lbs lighter, but with the MacPherson strut front suspension. The 4G63 engine, in full ESP trim, can probably put out about 305-315bhp at the flywheel with the 89-94 turbo, and about 275bhp with the 95+ turbo, based on the flow limit of the turbo, and assuming some boost creep at high rpm with the older turbo. The 95+ turbo will, however, have more low-end torque. The AWD will have slightly higher drivetrain losses than the FWD. Mac Crossett '96 Eagle Talon TSi AWD #49ESP My pappy said, "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' if you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Talon" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 18:04:57 1999 From: washburn To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600 Subject: Chevette I was just wondering, has anyone ever seriously prepared a Chevette for SP or P? Anyone have any stories? -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 18:09:31 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: msirota@isc.upenn.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:07:22 EST Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB In a message dated 4/1/1999 10:49:10 AM Central Standard Time, msirota@isc.upenn.edu writes: << With the F500 back in CM, we'd all see a lot more local competition, and could once again be a major force at Nationals. >> First, I don't understand the logic behind this statement. Why would it be better for local competition? Second. What would be a major force at nationals? CM with F500's in it? Why is this important? What does this 'force' gain us? Deeper trophies? Third. What does classing on a local level have to do with classing on a national level? If your region wants to class FF's, F500's, and Yugo's all together what's stopping you? And if what you do proves too be good to be true then share the success with the rest of the country and why we ought to consider it. If and when the situation in F Mod plays out as you predict it will then your ideas make perfect sense to consider. Until that time I believe they'll only serve the purpose to inflame and to scare potential members away from joining F Mod (with either flavor) for fear of losing their class after they make their investment. Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 18:30:45 1999 From: washburn To: richard nichols Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:28:02 -0600 Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM richard nichols wrote: > > All we'd need is a sponsor, such as Daimler/Chrysler, putting up a set of > identically prepared Neons, for example. Then let the best man or woman win > (did I mention more than once or twice before, I think that men and women > should compete for the same prizes, in addition to their own?). In all honesty, you just described DS. The main reason I joined in that madness is that I get to see how I stack up without worrying too much about having the right car. What I would like to do is get a junker of the most un-autocross like car, and equip it with the worst of everything. Worn out shocks, old Fleet Farm tires, marginal brakes, automatic trans that downshifts in all the wrong places, 32 steering wheel turns lock to lock,.... Run this bad boy at the end of an event with a set of qualifying drivers. We'll see who is the best driver for sure! -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 18:31:43 1999 From: Tom Shirley To: Autocross List Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 20:36:39 -0500 Subject: Chattanooga Region AutoX & School The Chattanooga Region will be hosting a Driving School on April 10th, and an Autocross on April 11th at the Dade County High School in Trenton, Ga. Registration for the school begins at 8:30 am, there will be a classroom session at 10:00 am, and start driving around 11:00 am. We will run until 4-5 pm, depending on turnout, and afterwards we'll gather at Larry's in Trenton for dinner and bench racing. The Autocross will be run as a usual event, registration at 10:30, drivers meeting at 12:00, first car off shortly after that. The costs will be $20 for the school, $20 for the autocross for SCCA members, $30 for both days if you are a first timer or a student. Direction to the school can be found at the Chattanooga Region website. __ / \ /(==)\ Tom Shirley Sale Creek, TN __ .=_.--._=. __ BAD DOG Racing | |---|<| |>|---| | 1982 Royale RP31M Formula Ford | | \ \ 18 / / | | 1978 Triumph Spitfire |__|-----\<\__/>/-----|__| http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1080 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 18:56:54 1999 From: Thomas L Brewsaugh To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:02:49 -0500 Subject: Re: IROC Therefore I am The IROC principal was that all cars were created equal, and the drivers rotated cars. That is a great idea but who would transport the cars and maintain them ? We here in Southwest Fl. have spec racer classes. We have a 1977 Pinto 2.3 and a 5.0 Capri. Each car has 7 drivers this season once the car arrives for the event no one is permitted to make any adjustments. Men and Women compete equally in the cars, it is all up to driver ability. The Pinto class has been the most entertaining and provided the closes finishes since its inception. The seasons point winner in the Pinto must move into the Capri the next season. And what becomes of the Capri season winner? We are now working on a spec formula racer ( old f440 chassis with Honda power). As for ware & tear the Pinto is in its 3rd season and Capri in season 2 we go thru a set of tires( street tires nothing fancy) and 3-4 oil changes a season. Cars are getting 28 runs an event 10 events a season. Oh yea each driver pays $10.00 an event rental to help offset upkeep cost. Tom Brewsaugh Gulfcoast Autocrossers Ltd. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 19:04:32 1999 From: Pat Griffith To: Autocross List Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:14:10 -0500 Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules There's a website that has a brief overview of Street Touring (and other) rules. Go to http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/ and click on "Street Touring Class Rules." Not sure if it's 100% word-for-word with the rulebook (I haven't ordered mine yet), but it sounds pretty credible to me. Pat Griffith One very ricey, non-sporting '93 Sentra SE-R, STU http://www.hmp.net/slowse-r From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 19:16:13 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:18:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame Benjamin D Thatcher wrote: > However, we also do the sport a disservice if we portray it as so safe > that we can just spin a car on course without the danger of ever hitting > anything. I'm saying if competitors have that expectation, in time they > may have a rude awakening if they see a car in a fence, upside down or > over a curb. I hope they never see that. But in my 13 years in the sport, > I've seen them all and none of them happened because of unsafe course > design or excessive speed. Then Jeff Winchell responded: <<>> Then I guess the 3 people who have _died_ at Solo II events don't count. Or the people who have been hit while working the course don't count? Or the cars that have rolled don't count? (I have personally witnessed one myself.) And you think this sport is safe enough without _constantly_ working to make it better? In most smaller regions with a bunch of stock cars, you can imagine things are safe enough even though the courses would never pass proper muster. But when you see a 600 hp 2500 lb Corvette going through a chain link onto a public highway you might change your mind. Yes, the dangers are real. And yes, people die on the highway too. But that doesn't mean you can dismiss them. That means you have to be on your toes all the time. It starts with proper course design. But it doesn't end there. Never turn your back to a car on the course. Never sit down when working the course. If you see a problem where you don't think there is sufficient runoff or there is another safety issue bring it to the attention of the people running the event. If they won't do anything about it send a letter to Denver describing the situation. You aren't being a tattletale! It is your duty! Enough preaching. I hate it when I do that... Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 19:37:58 1999 From: JVHT@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net (Autocross List) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:37:38 EST Subject: Autocross Test/Tune and Event on April 10-11. Gulfcoast Autocrossers Ltd. next event is just a week away! Check out our website at GCAC Website for all the information you need. Saturday's Test&Tune all day (with times recorded) for only $10.00 Sunday's Main Event $25.00. Don't miss another chance to run "Florida's Toughest Mile"! See you there! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 19:47:31 1999 From: "Larry Spector" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:47:48 -0400 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? Joshua Hadler wrote: > "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > > > > A friend in a GSX would love to go whole-hog on modifications, but I dont > > belive the GSX (Eclipse or not) fits the "type" of car allowed in ST. > > Regardless of weather it can be considered a 'sedan' or 'coupe' or not, > it's a forced aspirated car, and is explicitly disallowed for ST. But what if it has a normally aspirated sibling that IS allowed? If the NA version of the Eclipse is allowed in ST, is its big brother (either AWD or FWD) allowed in STU if the only differences between the 2 would be legal if you started with a non-turbo in the first place? -Larry Spector From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 20:41:36 1999 From: "Brian Goodwin" To: "Auto-X List" , "Gary Spray" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:45:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Alignment Question -----Original Message----- From: Gary Spray To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 7:01 PM Subject: Alignment Question >Okay, it's Spring and time for the annual alignment on the ol' Miata. The >question is not how much caster, camber or toe, but should the driver (me) >be sitting in the car while it is aligned? I've heard it both ways (in & >out) but I want to get the consensus of the list. It would seem to me that >if your car has adjustable coilovers and you were corner weighing, you >definitely want to be sitting in the car. But in my Miata, with its stock >shocks and springs, is it still necessary? > It makes a big difference in a Miata so, IMHO, you should shop around until you find a shop that will allow you to sit in the car. I had a local shop put mine on the alignment rack and align the car without me in it. Then, while it was still hooked up, I got into the car. Granted I am a big guy for a Miata at 215 lbs but there was a dramatic change in the settings. Don't remember the numbers but it was ugly enough to lead all present to conclude that a Miata should definately not be aligned without the driver in the seat. Brian Goodwin Good-Win Racing Supply 94 CSP Miata http://www.good-win-racing.com > > > >---- >Gary Spray >Topeka, Kansas >Crystal White '90 A (with white Mazda alloys) >M Club #43 >Miata Club Of America >Kansas Region SCCA > >** WAX? I bought it to DRIVE! ** > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 20:43:31 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:43:20 PST Subject: brit car theory Whoever posted the Theory on british car electronics I can't even remember the name of it but it cracked me up reguardless my Hard drive crapped out and I lost it could someone please send it to me one of my pofessors is a real Brit buff and I think he would get a kick out of it thanks Jeff Lloyd From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 20:47:00 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Mark Noeltner" , Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:42:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Who do I write to for car classification? -----Original Message----- From: Mark Noeltner >Lets say I have a car which is seriously mis-classed. It's one of those >obscure ones that no one with any brains would seriously consider autoxing >anyway :-), so probably no one has ever looked at the classification of >this car since it came out many years ago. > >What's the best procedure for requesting a second look at this car? I would >assume that I would need to include all of the performance specs on the >car, and I'm guessing it would be good to have an example or two of the >current competetors to the car to show the mis-match, then maybe an example >or two of cars that would be really close to it?? What else?? The only real procedure is to write to the Solo Events Board at: Solo Events Board c/o SCCA Rally/Solo Department 9033 E Easter Pl Englewood CO 80112 They will pass the letter on to the appropriate advisory committee for consideration. The points you brought up are good to mention. Consider that your car may have more potential when prepared to the maximum extent of the rules (which you may or may not have reached), so you have to be familiar with those rules and how they relate to your car. This is obvious in SP classifications, but I think it's pertinent for Stock, too. You should also try to show why your proposed solution is a good one, and consider potential objections. At this point, you might even finish the letter. Seriously, this won't take more than 2-3 pages. I wrote a couple of letters like this about five years back -- I have no idea whether they tipped a balance anywhere, but the current makeup of G Stock is close to what I was proposing, so I felt rewarded! And don't hold out -- what car is it (so we can beat another thread to death)? Jamie (in no official capacity whatsoever) '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 20:47:37 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:50:03 -0500 Subject: Correction I said: <> I forgot where I was for a moment... ;-) I meant to say "contact your divisional Solo II Safety Steward who is listed in the appendix of the rules". What could I hav ebeen thinking... Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 20:53:48 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:49:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Car registration (pretty weak autox content) -----Original Message----- From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com > >Not if you are in the military, you can register your auto in any state you want... Not really. By the book, you are allowed to register either in the state you claim as a legal residence or the state you're stationed in at the time. The license plate police don't normally chase you down to enforce this, but if you're stopped and you're wearing a registration from one state, holding a license in a second, and claiming a current address in a third, this can get sticky. Don't ask how I know...! Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 20:54:52 1999 From: Oasis3223@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:53:18 EST Subject: April 11 Test & Tune: Iowa Region The Iowa region is hosting a"test and tune event", April 11 at Kirkwood College, Cedar Rapids, Iowa Registration is 10:30 first car off at noon, it is not a "points event" but a chance to sort out your car before the season starts. Organizers have promised LOTS of track time.Great chance to sort out that new car, or test the winter's tinkering. We will have another similar event two weeks later, same time/place. For more info on this or other upcoming events, email me or call Bob Kistler, Solo II Chair, 319-643-5421,who resides in scenic West Branch, Iowa Bob Lucas Iowa Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 21:00:03 1999 From: Craig Blome To: washburn , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:02:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Chevette People don't just idly wonder about Chevettes. What're you up to? :) --- washburn wrote: > I was just wondering, has anyone ever seriously > prepared a Chevette for > SP or P? Anyone have any stories? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 21:57:17 1999 From: "Alex Muresan" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 20:57:05 PST Subject: G-force R1 had 40 psi Sorry, I forgot to mention that the tire had 40 psi (hot) right after he came in. We thought that this was too high and that the tire was over inflated and that's why the middle of the tire would wear out first. The reason why he was running 40 as opposed to 32 he was running with his old R1s was because he was aware that g-forece R1 required more pressure. Alex 81 GS, type R From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 22:09:45 1999 From: "Brian Naumann" To: autox@autox.team.net, wheeltowheel@wheeltowheel.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:25:53 +0000 Subject: Kumho Tire Source? I'm looking for a certain place in Ohio - I believe it was called Liberty Tire, and I believe the representative's name was Bruce. I also believe I saw they were dealing Kumhos this year. Basically, I want some by mid next week. Please refresh my memory. ;) TIA, Brian Naumann brn6604@geocities.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 22:19:11 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: MBD96@aol.com Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 00:18:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB MBD96@aol.com wrote: > First, I don't understand the logic behind this statement. Why would > it be better for local competition? More cars in the class. And people like to join a big local class, but don't like to join a class with only one or two regular competitors. Around here, anyway. > Second. What would be a major force at nationals? CM with F500's in > it? Why is this important? What does this 'force' gain us? Deeper > trophies? Deeper trophies, and deeper talent. People stand up and pay attention to the big classes -- and like to join them. > Third. What does classing on a local level have to do with classing > on a national level? If your region wants to class FF's, F500's, and > Yugo's all together what's stopping you? A very good point, and one I often make myself, so it's somewhat embarrassing to have overlooked it this time. Thanks for setting me straight. > Until that time I believe they'll only serve the purpose to inflame > and to scare potential members away from joining F Mod (with either > flavor) for fear of losing their class after they make their > investment. People are, unfortunately, already scared. There are about four people right here in Philly Region who want to get into Real Race Cars, and like the budget of FM, but are afraid of the instability of the class. I realize that I'm only making matters worse in the short term, but I'm trying to make things better in the long term for the entire race car community, as well as the larger Solo II community. If my views aren't in the majority, then so be it. Still nothing wrong with voicing them, is there? Mark P.S. As for Josh's comment that autocrossing FF's have little value in road racing, that's only because we're all cheapskates buying the cars that are already cheap because they have no value in road racing. The older and newer cars both have value, and could easily be converted from one to the other. On the other hand, Kenny and Jim both pointed out that BM cars and F5's are also not likely to go back to the road racing world once they've been converted, so perhaps that point is moot. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 23:00:30 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:03:26 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame > Just one at the > wrong time and place could have a very negative influence > on the future of the sport. If you take the very low percentage of the flip multiplied by the very low percentage of it being at the wrong time and place, you have such low odds that it's not worth considering, IMO. > BTW, in our area there have been quite a few > rollovers, flips and offs resulting in vehicle damage over > a period of 20-plus yrs. that I have been around the sport. Quite a few would be 3 or 4? What number? Then compare that to odds of this happening in general driving on the streets. Jeff Winchell -former actuary From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 23:31:15 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: Auto-X mailing list Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:31:34 -0600 (EST) Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, washburn wrote: > What I would like to do is get a junker of the most un-autocross like > car, and equip it with the worst of everything. Worn out shocks, old > Fleet Farm tires, marginal brakes, automatic trans that downshifts in > all the wrong places, 32 steering wheel turns lock to lock,.... Run > this bad boy at the end of an event with a set of qualifying drivers. > We'll see who is the best driver for sure! But, Patrick... wasn't it *you* that was just asking about the Chevette?? Dale --- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -Mitch Ratliffe, Technology Review April, 1992 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 23:44:09 1999 From: LOTUSRCN@aol.com To: johnlee@softdisk.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:43:09 EST Subject: Re: Course design/speed limits In a message dated 4/1/99 5:12:18 PM EST, johnlee@softdisk.com writes: << My point was geared more toward verifying the 75 mph Neon comment that appeared early in this thread. >> Well, from my point of view, and I was at the National tour in SD. My Son was one of the course designers. I have read most all of the threads concerning this event and the speed. I will tell you all right now that the course was probably one of the safest courses you could have run on. There are some very good points and we should always error in favor of safe course. There is no excuse not to have safe course. The one thing that San Diego does and has been doing for the past 20-25 years is a safety run in the morning before class runs. The car is usually a SP or Prepared car, and a safety steward as a passenger / observer. It save a lot of headache and misfortunes. There was never a NEON that ran the course Sat. or Sunday, get up to 75 MPH, on the fast section of the course. If you think that a stock Neon can out accelerate my Lotus, your dead wrong. I never got to the rev limiter (7500 rpm) in 3rd gear which would have been speed of 65-67 mph. I know that Josh, in a FF., got up to 75 - 80 MPH, Guy Ankeny in his S-2000 may have got to 80 MPH also. The winner in BS George Doganis, in a Miata, got up to 60-65. So I don't think that the speed were to high. I think that it may have felt like 75 MPH to the driver, but it wasn't. Robbie Robinson SCCA-SDR SOLO II Committee Chairman Solo Safety Steward. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 00:07:53 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: Jeff@winchell.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:07:25 EST Subject: Re: Spins & Blame In a message dated 4/2/99 1:02:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jeff@Winchell.Com writes: << > BTW, in our area there have been quite a few > rollovers, flips and offs resulting in vehicle damage over > a period of 20-plus yrs. that I have been around the sport. Quite a few would be 3 or 4? What number? Then compare that to odds of this happening in general driving on the streets. >> ........................... Well, let's see... A Shelby and Corvette were destroyed at a place called Pungo where we ran some years ago. Another car sustained some damage there when it went off and hit a small building! There were three rollovers in parking lots. One was mine. A Porshe hit the wall at Langley speedway. So did a formula car. And a Honda. And a Firebird. And there was one at Langley where a car hit the big tractor tire at the end of the pit wall and did a flying flip. Lots of air under it. Had to get the fire dept. to cut him out with the jaws of life. We haven't autocrossed there for a while. I like ovals but must admit they are too dangerous for a bunch of amateurs. I've seen three "bicycle" near rollovers two by some very good, experienced drivers. A puff of wind and they would be added to these grim stats. I'm forgetting something...I went off course twice with my Camaro on very fast airport courses, luckily hitting nothing. There are a couple more, I think. Old man's memory ain't that great but off the top of my head there are a few. If I remember more I'll let you know. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 01:11:09 1999 From: garyk98@airmail.net (Garyk) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:09:35 GMT Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB (long) I agree with Bruce. The creation of this committee is a good idea and I see no problem with allowing the different heads. All I see with the creation of this committee is positive, with the possibility of more Vees showing up, setup to the max the rules allow, and competing on par with/or above the F440/F5's, thus improving the class. But it will take a year or so to get those other cars. Now for the part that will probably upset some. (So Flame On) With more and different SV's competing and with new and different ideas on how to setup a SV, I believe we will see a SV that is competitive and capable of winning any event, not just the National Championship, which is the basis for some, whether or not the cars are at a level of parity. I believe the key to this is in the suspension, not the engine at this time, and none that I have seen compete, are there, yet. More cars = more ideas = better results = better competition. The SVOA says that parity is not achievable at this time and are not proceeding on trying to get it. Does this mean that they are giving up on improving their cars and hope that a class will be given to them out of pity. I hope not, the cars are close, and as the many E-mails last year can prove, no SV owner could or would pin-point the exact area(s) they needed to improve, as in braking, handling, acceleration.... The SVOA is a good start and a great idea and I hope ideas will be shared between the members of the SVOA. Flame Off Gary "Fire Extinguisher Ready" Kramar '89 F440 FM On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:58:14 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/31/1999 7:09:16 PM Central Standard Time, Autovee@aol.com >writes: > ><< What we would like to propose is a change in the cylinder head >specifications. > We request that this change be implemented by the SEB at the earliest >possible > time. The details and the rational for this follow. > > The heads specified by the current rules are not readily available in the > marketplace. They are expensive to build from stock heads, and the > performance improvement over stock valve sizes is minimal. The original > choice of these heads is viewed as a serious mistake in the current rules. > > There are better heads, readily available, and these are the street > performance heads of choice throughout the VW industry. These heads are much > lower in cost than the present heads specified by the rules. >> > >Regardless of whether the heads allowed by the current rules increase >performance and/or cost, or not, I don't have any heartburn about considering >a proposal for a change in cylinder heads for one reason. At the time the >original parity committee started its review of various parity options for >FMod, F500 hadn't been approved. I may not be remembering this correctly but >at least in the back of my mind, if not in the back of one or more other's >minds on the committee and SEB, the thought was if F500 raised the performance >bar for the class (even as it is currently restricted) then the next level of >performance heads for Solo Vees should be considered for approval. > >So, the SVOA's proposal is consistent with what I remember as being a future >option discussed at the time of the original parity proposal should F500's >have more performance potential that F440. I do not know whether the specific >heads requested in their letter to the SEB are a suitable next step, or not. >But I support the concept that the group has asked the SEB to consider and >encourage the SEB to investigate the fairness of their proposal. > >Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 03:20:43 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: garyk98@airmail.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:20:25 EST Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB (long) In a message dated 4/2/1999 2:12:12 AM Central Standard Time, garyk98@airmail.net writes: << The creation of this committee is a good idea and I see no problem with allowing the different heads. All I see with the creation of this committee is positive, with the possibility of more Vees showing up, setup to the max the rules allow, and competing on par with/or above the F440/F5's, thus improving the class. >> Now that the SEB has a modified category advisory committee I think this issue is right up their alley. The SVOA is a unique way to approach the advisory committee and the SEB with a rules change proposal. One group, 20 strong (so far), one voice. Very interesting concept. If it works I wonder whether working as a formally united group will be able to have a greater impact on rules changes. Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 05:57:49 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: "Larry Spector" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:53:18 -0800 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? If the car isn't allowed in ST, it isn't allowed in STR or STU. Under your scenario, ANY car would be legal for STU. I understand how you are starting with a derivative of a legal car, but the fact remains that if the car isn't eligible, it doesn't matter what family lines it has. You must look at it like this: GSX - illegal for ST, Viper GTS - illegal for ST. They both are still illegal for STU... Wait a minute, are we assuming that you can add a turbo where there was none before in STU? AB But what if it has a normally aspirated sibling that IS allowed? If the NA version of the Eclipse is allowed in ST, is its big brother (either AWD or FWD) allowed in STU if the only differences between the 2 would be legal if you started with a non-turbo in the first place? -Larry Spector From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 06:35:29 1999 From: Rex Weatherford To: auto-x , Beretta List , Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:42:29 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Fun Event Results Posted on Andy & Rex's site!] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------330FA5A39449493642938E46 Enjoy! If you have any questions just ask Andy or I. Hopefully the 1st Points event will have the cars models included. Hey look who's in the lead for cone KILLS! ;^) -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 89,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 150,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html --------------330FA5A39449493642938E46 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <> Received: from spbted.gtri.gatech.edu ([130.207.198.39]) by mx10.mindspring.com (Mindspring Mail Service) with SMTP id rg8u3q.7ta.37kbi3u Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:57:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (unverified [207.69.200.31]) by spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 02 Apr 1999 02:56:07 -0500 Received: from mindspring.com (user-38lcbdg.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.45.176]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25277 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:57:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <370478DD.D8222B1A@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 02:59:36 -0500 From: "Andrew T. VanWie" Reply-To: atvanwie@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: Fun Event Results Posted on Andy & Rex's site! Sender: teamsolo-request@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Resent-Message-Id: Resent-From: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu X-Unsub: To leave, send text 'LEAVE' to X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Team Solo I have put the February Fun Event results on our homepage! (Andrew VanWie & Rex Weatherford's) Thanks to Brett Howell for all the raw data... Just click below and have some fun at our site! (still a work in progress...of course!) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/1999_racing_l.htm Andrew VanWie atvanwie@mindspring.com --------------330FA5A39449493642938E46-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 07:09:28 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jeff Winchell Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:09:16 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame Jeff Winchell wrote: > If you take the very low percentage of the flip multiplied by the very > low percentage of it being at the wrong time and place, you have such > low odds that it's not worth considering, IMO. IF statistics were available - e.g., mishaps per vehicle mile or per vehicle hour - for Solo II incidents, it might be possible to make a definitive statement regarding incident probability and the negligibility thereof. Since those statistics are not available, judgements such as the above are pure speculation. > Quite a few would be 3 or 4? What number? Then compare that to > odds of this happening in general driving on the streets. The comparison, while interesting, is beside the point. We all agree that no activity is risk-free, but what is really not a subject of debate - it's well-defined in the rules - is that Solo II event organizers carry the responsibility for putting on a safe event. I can name more than one situation in which sites were lost because of accidents at Solo II events. Given that we are not being deluged by site owners begging us to help wear out their pavement, it is only in everyone's best interest to help keep the probabilites of incident as low as possible. I can say from experience that statistics are meaningful until you become one. Jay Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 07:24:18 1999 From: Autovee@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:23:56 EST Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB(long) Gary, Thanks for your comments on the SVOA. Here is my response. No need for a fire extinguisher. ALL OF THE SERIOUS COMPETITORS IN OUR SPORT: * know that our racecar can always be improved - development never stops * are committed to developing our racecars to the limits of the rules. * constantly strive to improve our driving * experiment with new ideas continuously * are all competitive and want to win SVOA Members are SERIOUS!!!! Ricardo From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 07:40:44 1999 From: Phil Vanner To: "Team.Net" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:33:33 -0600 Subject: RE: ST Classification..any solid rules? Andrew Bettencourt Notes: Not if you are in the military, you can register your auto in any state you want... Speaking for myself, If you put your ass on the line for me - I'll give you the loophole. Phil Vanner DSP Midget From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 07:43:27 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Josh Sirota" , "Mark Sirota" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:45:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Solo Vee - SEB >Mark Sirota wrote: >> The Solo Vee is the exact opposite of the CM success formula. CM is >> great, among other reasons, because the cars can move back and forth >> between road racing and autocrossing so easily. > >Very few autocrossing FFs still have a realistic resale market in the >road racing world. > >Josh ========================= On the other hand, aren't most autocross FF cars usually retired road race cars? That's usually the only way most of us poor autocross guys could ever afford them with brand new FF cars priced over $50,000. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 07:49:46 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "washburn" , "richard nichols" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:51:32 -0600 Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM >What I would like to do is get a junker of the most un-autocross like >car, and equip it with the worst of everything. Worn out shocks, old >Fleet Farm tires, marginal brakes, automatic trans that downshifts in >all the wrong places, 32 steering wheel turns lock to lock,.... Run >this bad boy at the end of an event with a set of qualifying drivers. >We'll see who is the best driver for sure! >-- >Patrick Washburn ============================ Oh, you mean a Ford whatever. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 07:50:16 1999 From: "Kent Rafferty" To: "autocross list" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:49:42 -0500 Subject: SP Proposal After reading the new SPAC proposal, I'm still befuddled by some of the classifications. For example, the M3 moves DOWN to Group 6 from CSP while many seemingly slower cars can be found in Groups I, II, and III. How about a NON-TURBO Stealth in Group II -- any takers? OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP and combine A/SP and B/SP and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still get smoked - just not as badly. To teach me a lesson, you can even throw my car into the new A/SP-B/SP class......... BTW, I love Elans and RX-7 TTs, but by removing them a whole host of cars are at proximate parity: 911s, Corvettes, 240Zs, Vipers, etc. To add one more element, let the turbo cars run unlimited boost w/stock turbos in this class then see if the 300ZXTTs, Supra TTs, Porsche turbos, etc. can compete. Kent Rafferty E/SP Supra TT From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 07:51:36 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: jemitchell@compuserve.com, Jeff@winchell.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:50:00 EST Subject: Re: Spins & Blame In a message dated 4/2/99 9:16:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: << I can name more than one situation in which sites were lost because of accidents at Solo II events. Given that we are not being deluged by site owners begging us to help wear out their pavement, it is only in everyone's best interest to help keep the probabilites of incident as low as possible. >> Amen. That paragraph should be displayed in large print under every course-designer's nose before every event. Ray Elliott From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 08:16:39 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Kent Rafferty" , "autocross list" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:13:04 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Kent Rafferty said: >OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP >class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the >RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP Whoaa there. Both of those cars are in Stock also. The Elan has been classed for years, and there's no basis whatever for now removing it from either Stock or SP. They're cheaper to buy, set up, and run in SP than 911s, and there are plenty of them around if anyone wants to buy one. If it's a good SP car, then so be it. You're simply proposing to penalize the folks who have taken the time and spent the money to develop these cars. The same is true for the RX7tt. These cars are already in the fastest SP class, and the class has had sufficient entries at Nationals to continue as is. >and combine A/SP and B/SP >and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still >get smoked - just not as badly. I dunno if the BSP guys will want 911s or Vipers there; you'll have to ask them. There have been some cars in ASP that, IMHO, were badly misclassed, but the solution to that is to reclass them, NOT to screw the folks who have been the most successful at developing and campaigning ASP cars. >BTW, I love Elans and RX-7 TTs, but by removing them a whole host >of cars are at proximate parity: 911s, Corvettes, 240Zs, Vipers, etc. All that is required to achieve this, IF you are correct (and I claim that's not been established), is to combine the above cars in BSP. There's no need to banish ANY car that is presently classed. >To add one more element, let the turbo cars run unlimited boost w/stock >turbos in this class then see if the 300ZXTTs, Supra TTs, Porsche turbos, >etc. can compete. "Unlimited boost" is a fantasy for SP. I know there are some cars that have enough flow capacity in the stock turbo (possibly the 944 turbo, for example) to become a hand grenade if you're allowed to play games with the boost. Once you're allowed to build a hand grenade, the guys who can afford to do so will have a distinct advantage. I'm against further restrictions on turbo cars in SP, but I'm also against further allowances for them. Jay Mitchell ASP Lotus Europa S2 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 09:01:42 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Kent Rafferty Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 07:58:13 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Do you mean that marques that do the sport best are not allowed to compete? Where do you "bump" them? Doesn't make sense to me. --Pat Kelly Kent Rafferty wrote: > After reading the new SPAC proposal, I'm still befuddled by some > of the classifications. For example, the M3 moves DOWN to Group > 6 from CSP while many seemingly slower cars can be found in > Groups I, II, and III. How about a NON-TURBO Stealth in Group II -- > any takers? > > OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP > class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the > RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP and combine A/SP and B/SP > and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still > get smoked - just not as badly. To teach me a lesson, you can > even throw my car into the new A/SP-B/SP class......... > > BTW, I love Elans and RX-7 TTs, but by removing them a whole host > of cars are at proximate parity: 911s, Corvettes, 240Zs, Vipers, etc. > To add one more element, let the turbo cars run unlimited boost w/stock > turbos in this class then see if the 300ZXTTs, Supra TTs, Porsche turbos, > etc. can compete. > > Kent Rafferty > E/SP Supra TT From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 09:22:18 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: "Howell, J. Brett" Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:19:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Who do I write to for car classification? Thanks to all, especially Pat and Brett. I'm just returning to this sport after a twenty year absecne and my local chapter is "dragging" me in to a more involved role. I'm really looking forward to getting more involvement in our local events and being more informed will certainly help. Thanks again Gary McDaniel 97 Cavalier Z24 #49ST From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 09:22:43 1999 From: "Larry Spector" To: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:45:24 -0500 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? On 2 Apr 99, at 4:53, Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com wrote: > > If the car isn't allowed in ST, it isn't allowed in STR or STU. Under your > scenario, ANY car would be legal for STU. I understand how you are > starting with a derivative of a legal car, but the fact remains that if the > car isn't eligible, it doesn't matter what family lines it has. You must > look at it like this: GSX - illegal for ST, Viper GTS - illegal for ST. > They both are still illegal for STU... > > Wait a minute, are we assuming that you can add a turbo where there was > none before in STU? > That was my assumption. I thought that forced induction was allowed in STU. If that's not true then forget what I said... If it is true however- if you started with a non-turbo car and added the factory turbo motor you'd wind up with a legal clone of the factory turbo car. -Larry From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 09:33:17 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: "Mohler, Jeff" Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:30:25 -0800 Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? -NEVER-??? Don't tell that to the "ricers". I'm having a good time in this ST class beating them with my domestic Z24. I look forward to having more of them show up. ;-) Gary McDaniel 97 Cavalier Z24 #49ST > > Im just of the opinion, that ST is built for the ricers, cars that were > -never- meant to be a performance car in the first place. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: whitney [SMTP:whitneys@mindspring.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:51 AM > > To: Mohler, Jeff; autox@autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: ST Classification..any solid rules? > > > > I believe the GSX/talon AWD fits, because the 2WD version is ST legal, and > > the unlimited drivetrain allowance would cover the AWD system. Check with > > Howard Duncan to be sure, but I have brought it up to them before, and > > remeber it being OK. > > > > Stan Whitney > > > > DP/EP CRX (still for sale - now a Natl. tour winner) > > GS Talon AWD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 09:55:28 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Kent Rafferty" , "autocross list" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:04:26 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Jay Mitchell To: Kent Rafferty ; autocross list Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 7:18 AM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >Kent Rafferty said: > >>OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP >>class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the >>RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP>>and combine A/SP and B/SP >>and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still >>get smoked - just not as badly. > >I dunno if the BSP guys will want 911s or Vipers there; you'll >have to ask them. There have been some cars in ASP that, IMHO, >were badly misclassed, but the solution to that is to reclass >them, NOT to screw the folks who have been the most successful at >developing and campaigning ASP cars. BSP is doin just fine thanx, plenty of entrys and more comin all the time. If you think it's a good idea to run the 911s against the plastic BIG cars, well.... Let me introduce you to Curt Ormiston! Vipers? Bring 'em on ;-) sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 09:57:12 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Pat Kelly" , "Kent Rafferty" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:06:15 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Pat Kelly To: Kent Rafferty Cc: autocross list Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 8:03 AM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >Do you mean that marques that do the sport best are not allowed to compete? >Where do you "bump" them? Doesn't make sense to me. I think you mean, *de best AT the sport* don't you? ;-) As for doing the sport good? Well... sbw >Kent Rafferty wrote: > >> After reading the new SPAC proposal, I'm still befuddled by some >> of the classifications. For example, the M3 moves DOWN to Group >> 6 from CSP while many seemingly slower cars can be found in >> Groups I, II, and III. How about a NON-TURBO Stealth in Group II -- >> any takers? >> >> OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP >> class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the >> RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP and combine A/SP and B/SP >> and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still >> get smoked - just not as badly. To teach me a lesson, you can >> even throw my car into the new A/SP-B/SP class......... >> >> BTW, I love Elans and RX-7 TTs, but by removing them a whole host >> of cars are at proximate parity: 911s, Corvettes, 240Zs, Vipers, etc. >> To add one more element, let the turbo cars run unlimited boost w/stock >> turbos in this class then see if the 300ZXTTs, Supra TTs, Porsche turbos, >> etc. can compete. >> >> Kent Rafferty >> E/SP Supra TT > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:04:38 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:06:08 -0500 Subject: Cool Web Site - Oil Filter Comparison >>> http://members.xoom.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:18:18 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Scotty *BOB* White Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:14:47 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal > >Do you mean that marques that do the sport best are not allowed to compete? > >Where do you "bump" them? Doesn't make sense to me. > > I think you mean, *de best AT the sport* don't you? ;-) As for doing the > sport good? Well... Watcha tryin to do, start an argument or somepen?--Pat K > > > sbw > > >Kent Rafferty wrote: > > > >> After reading the new SPAC proposal, I'm still befuddled by some > >> of the classifications. For example, the M3 moves DOWN to Group > >> 6 from CSP while many seemingly slower cars can be found in > >> Groups I, II, and III. How about a NON-TURBO Stealth in Group II -- > >> any takers? > >> > >> OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP > >> class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the > >> RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP and combine A/SP and B/SP > >> and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still > >> get smoked - just not as badly. To teach me a lesson, you can > >> even throw my car into the new A/SP-B/SP class......... > >> > >> BTW, I love Elans and RX-7 TTs, but by removing them a whole host > >> of cars are at proximate parity: 911s, Corvettes, 240Zs, Vipers, etc. > >> To add one more element, let the turbo cars run unlimited boost w/stock > >> turbos in this class then see if the 300ZXTTs, Supra TTs, Porsche turbos, > >> etc. can compete. > >> > >> Kent Rafferty > >> E/SP Supra TT > > > > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:18:42 1999 From: Paul Craven To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:06:20 -0600 Subject: Performance Chips I have a question for the list and admittedly have not done my homework on this, but does adding a performance chip change the classification of your car. Legal in Stock, SP? I don't want to start a thread on whether or not chips work (I'm sure that has been beaten to death before), just the rules issue. Thanks, Paul Craven 88 M5 ESP -- }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ }}Paul Craven Informix Software, Inc.{{ }}pcraven@informix.com Lenexa, Kansas, USA {{ }}Phone 913-599-7210 Fax 913-599-7260 {{ }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:21:20 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Paul Foster" , "team.net" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:22:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Cool Web Site - Oil Filter Comparison Subject: Cool Web Site - Oil Filter Comparison >>>> http://members.xoom.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html ======================= Okay, here's kinda of a silly question. Can I put basically any size oil filter on my Neon, or any other car for that matter? Of course this is dependant on it fitting the threads and having enough clearance from the surrounding objects. On the Neon the oil filter is a mere 1.5" from the the passenger's side drive shaft. Slightly larger capacity and/or cooling and/or filtering surfaces being the sought after features. And would this be Stock Class legal? Probably not but thought I'd ask anyway. Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:30:06 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Scotty *BOB* White" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:27:52 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Scotty said: > BSP is doin just fine thanx, plenty of entrys and more comin all the >time. I thought you'd a said that. Can't say as I disagree.... > If you think it's a good idea to run the 911s against the plastic BIG >cars, well.... Let me introduce you to Curt Ormiston! Bingo. Claims that ASP is "dominated" by Elans are just not true. Of the top four finishers at Nationals in 98, there were two Elans, one RX7tt, and one 911. Curt was around .8 seconds off of the first place time, and the spread between 1st and 4th in BSP was pretty similar. It sure looks to me like a 911 can be competitive in ASP. And, if the potential is there, you shouldn't reward the other 911 drivers just because they haven't figured out how to achieve that potential. > Vipers? Bring 'em on Even though you put in a smiley, I'd say a Viper better fits the "typical" BSP profile than ASP. ASP had 18 entries last fall, and, if I remember correctly, the trend there is up. It ain't broke, therefore, let's not try to fix it. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:33:21 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Pat Kelly" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:30:49 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Pat said, > Watcha tryin to do, start an argument or somepen?--Pat K Naww, Scotty? He don't like to argue. ;<) Jay "me neither" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:38:28 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:47:34 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal :-) sbw -----Original Message----- From: Pat Kelly To: Scotty *BOB* White Cc: Kent Rafferty ; autocross list Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 9:18 AM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >> >Do you mean that marques that do the sport best are not allowed to compete? >> >Where do you "bump" them? Doesn't make sense to me. >> >> I think you mean, *de best AT the sport* don't you? ;-) As for doing the >> sport good? Well... > > Watcha tryin to do, start an argument or somepen?--Pat K > >> >> >> sbw >> >> >Kent Rafferty wrote: >> > >> >> After reading the new SPAC proposal, I'm still befuddled by some >> >> of the classifications. For example, the M3 moves DOWN to Group >> >> 6 from CSP while many seemingly slower cars can be found in >> >> Groups I, II, and III. How about a NON-TURBO Stealth in Group II -- >> >> any takers? >> >> >> >> OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP >> >> class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the >> >> RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP and combine A/SP and B/SP >> >> and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still >> >> get smoked - just not as badly. To teach me a lesson, you can >> >> even throw my car into the new A/SP-B/SP class......... >> >> >> >> BTW, I love Elans and RX-7 TTs, but by removing them a whole host >> >> of cars are at proximate parity: 911s, Corvettes, 240Zs, Vipers, etc. >> >> To add one more element, let the turbo cars run unlimited boost w/stock >> >> turbos in this class then see if the 300ZXTTs, Supra TTs, Porsche turbos, >> >> etc. can compete. >> >> >> >> Kent Rafferty >> >> E/SP Supra TT >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:47:15 1999 From: "Kent Rafferty" To: "Pat Kelly" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:46:34 -0500 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Its unfortunate there's no place to bump the Loti and RX-7 TT in SP, so they'd go to P. I'm following the precedent set by the SCCA in not allowing the Viper to compete in Stock and sending it directly to A/SP because it's too fast for any stock classes. IMO, A/SP seems to be a one and a half (Tripoint prepared RX-7TT) marque class - when an Elan shows up- everyone else is fighting for second. Yes, the Elan is in effect being penalized for being too quick - just as a stock Viper is. Kent Rafferty >Do you mean that marques that do the sport best are not allowed to >compete? >Where do you "bump" them? Doesn't make sense to me. >--Pat Kelly > >Kent Rafferty wrote: > >> After reading the new SPAC proposal, I'm still befuddled by some >> of the classifications. For example, the M3 moves DOWN to Group >> 6 from CSP while many seemingly slower cars can be found in >> Groups I, II, and III. How about a NON-TURBO Stealth in Group II -- >> any takers? >> >> OK, my kneejerk suggestion, which does not create another SP >> class and may make for more interesting competition: Bump the >> RX-7 TT and Lotus Elan OUT of SP and combine A/SP and B/SP >> and move all the "dregs" down to C, D and E where they'll still >> get smoked - just not as badly. To teach me a lesson, you can >> even throw my car into the new A/SP-B/SP class......... >> >> BTW, I love Elans and RX-7 TTs, but by removing them a whole host >> of cars are at proximate parity: 911s, Corvettes, 240Zs, Vipers, etc. >> To add one more element, let the turbo cars run unlimited boost w/stock >> turbos in this class then see if the 300ZXTTs, Supra TTs, Porsche turbos, >> etc. can compete. >> >> Kent Rafferty >> E/SP Supra TT > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 10:49:53 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Jay Mitchell Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:52:29 -0700 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Jay Mitchell wrote: > > Bingo. Claims that ASP is "dominated" by Elans are just not true. > Of the top four finishers at Nationals in 98, there were two > Elans, one RX7tt, and one 911. Curt was around .8 seconds off of > the first place time, and the spread between 1st and 4th in BSP > was pretty similar. It sure looks to me like a 911 can be > competitive in ASP. And, if the potential is there, you shouldn't > reward the other 911 drivers just because they haven't figured > out how to achieve that potential. Or simply can't afford to develop their car to that extent. SP, especially ASP can be a rather pricey endeavor. But that should have absolutely no bearing on where or how a car gets classed. Curt, and Dwight before him, have shown us that the 911 does have the potential in ASP. It just takes the right combination of development, and driver talent to make it work. But isn't that the case with most any car? > > Vipers? Bring 'em on > > Even though you put in a smiley, I'd say a Viper better fits the > "typical" BSP profile than ASP. Can you say "Course dependency"? :-). -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:04:29 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:05:09 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Jay Mitchell >Bingo. Claims that ASP is "dominated" by Elans are just not true. >Of the top four finishers at Nationals in 98, there were two >Elans, one RX7tt, and one 911. Curt was around .8 seconds off of >the first place time, and the spread between 1st and 4th in BSP >was pretty similar. It sure looks to me like a 911 can be >competitive in ASP. And, if the potential is there, you shouldn't >reward the other 911 drivers just because they haven't figured >out how to achieve that potential. The problem is the skill level of those currently driving Elans is nowhere near the level of Curt O or Shaunna M, (IMNSHO) yet the Elans seem to beat them almost every time ;-( sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:06:39 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Team.Net" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:06:22 -0800 Subject: G-Force 18" availability. Most recent from RACEBFG is that they now have "no idea" when 18" tires will be produced. I was supposed to have called them on April 1, but decided *not* to try on April Fool's Day. Just thought I'd pass it along. KeS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:15:13 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Kent Rafferty Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:18:07 -0700 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Kent Rafferty wrote: > > Its unfortunate there's no place to bump the Loti and RX-7 TT > in SP, so they'd go to P. I'm following the precedent set by the > SCCA in not allowing the Viper to compete in Stock and sending > it directly to A/SP because it's too fast for any stock classes. > > IMO, A/SP seems to be a one and a half (Tripoint prepared > RX-7TT) marque class - when an Elan shows up- everyone else > is fighting for second. Yes, the Elan is in effect being penalized > for being too quick - just as a stock Viper is. So why don't we bump the Miatas to A-Stock? They dominate the class, and there have yet to be shown any other cars in the class that can compete. :-) I know that's an extreme example, but the point is that there will very likely always be a car or two that is going to be a little quicker than the rest in a given class. Why not bump the X1/9 into CSP? Obviously it's the dominant car in DSP. And no, I don't advocate that in the least. Yes, the X1/9 has proven to be a dominant force in DSP, but I don't feel that it has been pushed by the rest of the class yet. There are a number of FWD cars that are up and coming now that I think can seriously give the fiat a run for the money. Just like the Elan has to work to keep ahead of the tripoint RX-7 and Curt's 911. There are a number of cars in ASP that probably have the potential to trophy, even win, but alot of them haven't been developed to the extent that the Tripoint car or Curt's 911 have. Those cars represent the pinnacle of development in that class right now (IMHO) and I think it's simply a matter of some of the other cars building up to that level. Then again, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:16:06 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Kevin Stevens" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:25:15 -0800 Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. NO WAY MAN!!!! There is all kinds of 18" rubber available!! Who in the hell do you think you are??!!? Get yer ass back in there and don't come out till you got some 18" TARZ!!!!! BESIDES< WHo cares!? We don't need no stinkin teknoligy! WE, The *SOLO OMNEPETENT* will tell the manufacturers what to make and when! Cause We are the *SOLO OMNEPETENT*!!! (Mimicking all the whiny people who don't want Corvettes and Porsches to have a chance at being competitive) sb (heard this too many F&*)%in times!!!) w -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Stevens To: Team.Net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:09 AM Subject: G-Force 18" availability. >Most recent from RACEBFG is that they now have "no idea" when 18" tires will >be produced. I was supposed to have called them on April 1, but decided >*not* to try on April Fool's Day. > >Just thought I'd pass it along. > >KeS > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:16:52 1999 From: Peter Gulliver To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:16:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chevette A few years ago a Guy in UK fit a a Rover V8 (old Buick Alum block) into a British Chevette. Claimed that a V8 was nothing else than a 4 cyl with 4 extra cyl added. Motor mounts almost identical etc was a extremely Rad looking machine Supposedly wheels spun in 2nd gear all the way up an uphill straight, in the wet. Guy thought clutch was slipping. Article about it in Car & Car Conversions about 4 years ago Pete Gulliver >Subject: Chevette > >I was just wondering, has anyone ever seriously prepared a Chevette for >SP or P? Anyone have any stories? >- -- >Patrick Washburn From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:22:55 1999 From: Matthew Wilder To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:22:28 -0500 Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM I did an ice race with the BMW club a while back and they had a "Rental" class you could enter in adition to your own car for I think it was 15 or so dollars. I'm not sure if they told the rental agency what they were going to do with it? Matt From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:23:17 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Kent Rafferty" , "Pat Kelly" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:19:36 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Kent responded: >Its unfortunate there's no place to bump the Loti and RX-7 TT >in SP, so they'd go to P. You haven't established that there is any reason to do this. > I'm following the precedent set by the >SCCA in not allowing the Viper to compete in Stock and sending >it directly to A/SP In the first place, your proposal does NOT follow that precedent in a precise fashion. Excluding a car from Stock is one thing. Excluding it from SP is entirely different. Read on. >because it's too fast for any stock classes. There was more to it than that. The Viper was a very expensive "exotic" car that had the apparent capability of dominating SS. It was the combination of expense, limited production, and likely class domination that drove the decision. I still think it was a bad decision, BTW. >IMO, A/SP seems to be a one and a half (Tripoint prepared >RX-7TT) marque class - when an Elan shows up- everyone else >is fighting for second. You only have to look in the rulebook at recent winners of ASP to see that your statement is incorrect. > Yes, the Elan is in effect being penalized >for being too quick - just as a stock Viper is. You're leaving out a major component when you propose excluding a car from SP: DEVELOPMENT. In SP, what you do to a car is just as important as its original capability. Several competitors have developed Elans and RX7tts into class winners. Somewhat fewer have done likewise with 911s, but IT CAN BE DONE. That alone is sufficient to establish that 911s, Elans, and RX7tts all belong in the same SP class. Other cars in the class may have similar potential, but unless somebody steps up to the plate and develops them fully, we won't know. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:24:12 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Peter Gulliver" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:23:27 -0800 Subject: RE: Chevette I'm not sure that having the car's center of mass and polar moment located at the crank is necessarily a good idea, though! KeS > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Peter Gulliver > Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:17 > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Chevette > > > A few years ago a Guy in UK fit a a Rover V8 (old Buick Alum block) into a > British Chevette. Claimed that a V8 was nothing else than a 4 cyl with 4 > extra cyl added. Motor mounts almost identical etc was a extremely Rad > looking machine Supposedly wheels spun in 2nd gear all the way up > an uphill > straight, in the wet. Guy thought clutch was slipping. Article about it in > Car & Car Conversions about 4 years ago > > Pete Gulliver > > > > >Subject: Chevette > > > >I was just wondering, has anyone ever seriously prepared a Chevette for > >SP or P? Anyone have any stories? > >- -- > >Patrick Washburn > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:24:55 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Joshua Hadler" , "Kent Rafferty" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:33:35 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Hadler To: Kent Rafferty Cc: Pat Kelly ; autocross list Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:17 AM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >Kent Rafferty wrote: >> >> Its unfortunate there's no place to bump the Loti and RX-7 TT >> in SP, so they'd go to P. I'm following the precedent set by the >> SCCA in not allowing the Viper to compete in Stock and sending >> it directly to A/SP because it's too fast for any stock classes. >> >> IMO, A/SP seems to be a one and a half (Tripoint prepared >> RX-7TT) marque class - when an Elan shows up- everyone else >> is fighting for second. Yes, the Elan is in effect being penalized >> for being too quick - just as a stock Viper is. > > So why don't we bump the Miatas to A-Stock? They dominate the class, >and there have yet to be shown any other cars in the class that can >compete. :-) You miss the point here dude! There a bazillion Miatas on lots every day for wayyyyyy under $20k. Find me an Elan for that kinda money that's Sp prepared? These guys in SCCA say the reason that the Viper and the 993TT are in sp and not stock is largely beacuse they are not readily available to all (read too expensive) so what in the hell is the difference with the 35 year old Lotus??!! I submit, NONE! If it is hard to get for the average racer wether it because of price or pure numbers of cars still living the issue should remain the same no matter the reason! sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:28:25 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Scotty *BOB* White Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:22:39 -0600 Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. Hoosier's in stock ready to ship P245/35ZR18 A3S03 61 P245/35ZR18 R3S03 202 P275/35ZR18 A3S03 44 P275/35ZR18 R3S03 60 81 TO BE BUILT 4/5/99 P335/30ZR18 A3S03 66 P335/30ZR18 R3S03 8 108 SCHEDULED Rob Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > NO WAY MAN!!!! There is all kinds of 18" rubber available!! Who in the > hell do you think you are??!!? Get yer ass back in there and don't come out > till you got some 18" TARZ!!!!! BESIDES< WHo cares!? We don't need no > stinkin teknoligy! WE, The *SOLO OMNEPETENT* will tell the manufacturers > what to make and when! Cause We are the *SOLO OMNEPETENT*!!! > > (Mimicking all the whiny people who don't want Corvettes and Porsches to > have a chance at being competitive) > > sb (heard this too many F&*)%in times!!!) w > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Stevens > To: Team.Net > Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:09 AM > Subject: G-Force 18" availability. > > >Most recent from RACEBFG is that they now have "no idea" when 18" tires > will > >be produced. I was supposed to have called them on April 1, but decided > >*not* to try on April Fool's Day. > > > >Just thought I'd pass it along. > > > >KeS > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:31:42 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Scotty *BOB* White'" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:33:09 -0600 Subject: RE: G-Force 18" availability. > (Mimicking all the whiny people who don't want Corvettes and Porsches > to > have a chance at being competitive) > > sb (heard this too many F&*)%in times!!!) w --- Tell me about it. Took me -for freakin ever- to find a 17x8.5" wheel to fit the VR4 for stock class. I think there were some 18" tire options out there, but I'd have to skip three car payments to afford em. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:32:42 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:41:48 -0800 Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. Well there ya go Kevin, they have just enough Hooters in stock to run one car for about 3 races ;-) Uhhhh, BTW Rob, where's the 275/40/18?? Uhuh, thought so ;-) sbw -----Original Message----- From: Robert M. Pickrell Jr. To: Scotty *BOB* White Cc: Kevin Stevens ; Team.Net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:28 AM Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. >Hoosier's in stock ready to ship > >P245/35ZR18 A3S03 61 >P245/35ZR18 R3S03 202 >P275/35ZR18 A3S03 44 >P275/35ZR18 R3S03 60 81 TO BE BUILT 4/5/99 >P335/30ZR18 A3S03 66 >P335/30ZR18 R3S03 8 108 SCHEDULED >Rob > >Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > >> NO WAY MAN!!!! There is all kinds of 18" rubber available!! Who in the >> hell do you think you are??!!? Get yer ass back in there and don't come out >> till you got some 18" TARZ!!!!! BESIDES< WHo cares!? We don't need no >> stinkin teknoligy! WE, The *SOLO OMNEPETENT* will tell the manufacturers >> what to make and when! Cause We are the *SOLO OMNEPETENT*!!! >> >> (Mimicking all the whiny people who don't want Corvettes and Porsches to >> have a chance at being competitive) >> >> sb (heard this too many F&*)%in times!!!) w >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kevin Stevens >> To: Team.Net >> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:09 AM >> Subject: G-Force 18" availability. >> >> >Most recent from RACEBFG is that they now have "no idea" when 18" tires >> will >> >be produced. I was supposed to have called them on April 1, but decided >> >*not* to try on April Fool's Day. >> > >> >Just thought I'd pass it along. >> > >> >KeS >> > >> > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:34:53 1999 From: "Kent Rafferty" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:28:51 -0500 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Naw, Elans are real underdogs..... Lets look at the the top AND bottom of A/SP at 98 Nationals (from memory ;-): 1. Tri-Point RX-7 4. 911 2. Elan 5. Elan 3. Elan 6. Elan And now, the bottom: 7. Tri Point RX-7 13. 911 8. Viper 14. MR2 9. 911 15. 911 10. 911 16. 911 11. 911 17. 911 12. Viper 18. 911 No Elans in the non-trophy positions. Yes, all of the Elan pilots are good but in one case a trophy-winning Elan driver autoxed only a couple of times all season! A/SP included two (I think) former national champions that didn't even trophy. Oh, there were two trophies in A/SPL - both Elans. So, 7 of 8 ASP/ASPL trophy positions were taken by a marque (Elan) and a half (Tri Point RX-7). Kent Rafferty >Bingo. Claims that ASP is "dominated" by Elans are just not true. >Of the top four finishers at Nationals in 98, there were two >Elans, one RX7tt, and one 911. Curt was around .8 seconds off of >the first place time, and the spread between 1st and 4th in BSP >was pretty similar. It sure looks to me like a 911 can be >competitive in ASP. And, if the potential is there, you shouldn't >reward the other 911 drivers just because they haven't figured >out how to achieve that potential. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:36:07 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Scotty *BOB* White" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:33:24 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Scotty sez: > The problem is the skill level of those currently driving Elans is >nowhere near the level of Curt O or Shaunna M, (IMNSHO) And, I might point out, your NSHO isn't necessarily shared by every observer. In any case, if the Elan can make a poor driver win as you claim, why wouldn't a really GOOD driver buy one and then REALLY stomp everybody's butt? So far, it's clear from Nationals results that at least three cars - the 911, the RX7tt, and the Elan - have the POTENTIAL to win ASP. That's what classing is about: CAR POTENTIAL. It just hasn't been shown that the Elan's potential is a class higher than the potential of the other two cars. > yet the Elans seem >to beat them almost every time "Almost every time" is not true. ONE Elan finishing first ahead of the RX7tt at one Nationals - 1997 - is not the same as the "Elans beating them every time," now, is it? In the last three years at Nationals, the TriPoint car has won two. Not exactly what I'd call domination of the class by Lotuses. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:36:41 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: eric10mm@qni.com Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:36:02 CST Subject: Re: Cool Web Site - Oil Filter Comparison Eric Linhoff asks: > Can I put basically any size oil filter on my Neon, or any other car for > that matter? > > Slightly larger capacity and/or cooling and/or filtering surfaces being > the sought after features. And would this be Stock Class legal? > Probably not but thought I'd ask anyway. The Stock rules allow any filter that mounts up to the existing hardware. As a FYI, neons used to use a larger filter, I believe Fram PH16-size, then Mopar decided there was a collision risk with the bottom of the filter hanging too low, so now they spec the smaller Fram PH3614-sized filter. I'm using Fram numbers because I have them memorized, not because I recommend them. Take your chances with whatever you like. I use the smaller filter because I'm too lazy/don't care/haven't got around to figuring out the biggest thing that'll fit. It is true that a larger filter would be better for lower backpressure, better cooling, and higher contaminant capacity. Enough to matter? Who knows? Does a filter ever clog before you change it? I rather doubt it, since auto manufacturers commonly spec a light-duty service interval of 7500 miles for oil changes. That's my interval for synthetic oil changes. If you're my mother, on the other hand, who I'm ashamed to admit trades her car in more often than she gets an oil change, well... probably nothing that would fit is gonna be big enough to help. -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:37:12 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Scotty *BOB* White" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:36:38 -0800 Subject: RE: G-Force 18" availability. It *would* be nice to be able to run 275/17's front and 275/18's back. With the 35 profile I'm forced to run 245 fronts to keep within the ABS tolerance. That's one reason I was looking forward to the G-forces. Oh well. KeS (Kumho/CUT isn't answering their phone. ) > -----Original Message----- > From: Scotty *BOB* White [mailto:we2fat4asp@seanet.com] > Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:42 > To: Robert M. Pickrell Jr. > Cc: Kevin Stevens; Team.Net > Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. > > > Well there ya go Kevin, > they have just enough Hooters in stock to run one car for about 3 > races ;-) > > Uhhhh, BTW Rob, where's the 275/40/18?? Uhuh, thought so ;-) > > sbw > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert M. Pickrell Jr. > To: Scotty *BOB* White > Cc: Kevin Stevens ; Team.Net > > Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. > > > >Hoosier's in stock ready to ship > > > >P245/35ZR18 A3S03 61 > >P245/35ZR18 R3S03 202 > >P275/35ZR18 A3S03 44 > >P275/35ZR18 R3S03 60 81 TO BE BUILT 4/5/99 > >P335/30ZR18 A3S03 66 > >P335/30ZR18 R3S03 8 108 SCHEDULED > >Rob > > > >Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > > > >> NO WAY MAN!!!! There is all kinds of 18" rubber available!! > Who in the > >> hell do you think you are??!!? Get yer ass back in there and don't come > out > >> till you got some 18" TARZ!!!!! BESIDES< WHo cares!? We don't need no > >> stinkin teknoligy! WE, The *SOLO OMNEPETENT* will tell the > manufacturers > >> what to make and when! Cause We are the *SOLO OMNEPETENT*!!! > >> > >> (Mimicking all the whiny people who don't want Corvettes > and Porsches > to > >> have a chance at being competitive) > >> > >> sb (heard this too many F&*)%in times!!!) w > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Kevin Stevens > >> To: Team.Net > >> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:09 AM > >> Subject: G-Force 18" availability. > >> > >> >Most recent from RACEBFG is that they now have "no idea" when > 18" tires > >> will > >> >be produced. I was supposed to have called them on April 1, > but decided > >> >*not* to try on April Fool's Day. > >> > > >> >Just thought I'd pass it along. > >> > > >> >KeS > >> > > >> > > > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:40:32 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Jay Mitchell" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:40:24 -0800 Subject: RE: SP Proposal > There was more to it than that. The Viper was a very expensive > "exotic" car that had the apparent capability of dominating SS. > It was the combination of expense, limited production, and likely > class domination that drove the decision. I still think it was a > bad decision, BTW. Very expensive compared to a Porsche Turbo, perhaps? Or a Ferrari, or NSX, or several other SS cars? Production was never limited, and cars are now readily available with under 10K miles in the $30K range. I agree with you that it was, and apparently will remain, a bad decision. KeS (drove a '99 Viper ACR recently, and BOY do those brakes suck!) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:45:50 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Scotty *BOB* White Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:48:43 -0700 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > > > So why don't we bump the Miatas to A-Stock? They dominate the class, > >and there have yet to be shown any other cars in the class that can > >compete. :-) > > You miss the point here dude! There a bazillion Miatas on lots every day > for wayyyyyy under $20k. That was a joke Scotty. > Find me an Elan for that kinda money that's Sp prepared? Find me -any- ASP car that's fully prepared for way under $20k. Lotus or not. I don't think it can be done. The point is, and I think we can all acknowledge this, ASP is an expensive class. The fact that the Lotus Elan is still such a good car for the class is a testament to the quality of the car and the skill of its drivers. The mazda RX-3 is a rare find (admittedly not as rare as an elan) and is also a tough to beat SP car. Should we ban that one too? > These guys in SCCA say the reason that the Viper and the 993TT are > in sp and not stock is largely beacuse they are not readily available to all > (read too expensive) so what in the hell is the difference with the 35 year > old Lotus??!! I submit, NONE! A 35 year old lotus is not $70k. And the Viper consumed SS the very first year it was classed. It's not so much that the car is expensive and somewhat hard to find (although a Viper is not exactly rare). Is that it's the fact that it is/was so dominant -and- it's extremely expensive. If only the filthy rich can afford to buy the car for the class in a stock category, then it no longer befits the grassroots nature of the sport. Hell, I couldn't afford a 93 RX-7 if I wanted to right now, so it's all relative I guess. > If it is hard to get for the average racer wether it because of price or > pure numbers of cars still living the issue should remain the same no matter > the reason! Then let's go out an ban all old and rare sports cars! Morgan? Gone. TVR? Gone. 356 Carerra? Gone. Shelby Cobra? Gone. Mini Cooper? Gone. Split window Vette? Gone. Come on Scotty, we all play on the same track, and we all play in the same club. We've got to make a place for anyone who wants to play. You managed to find a place for yer big ol' Karvette to play. If you feel there are other "too slow" cars in ASP, then petition to bump 'em down into BSP with all the rest of ya. ASP is the top of the SP category, there's got to be a place for all cars. If you would rather duke it out in BSP with Curt and Shauna, be my guest. Petition the SEB for a reclassification, I'm sure Curt and Shauna wouldn't mind. ;-) I do feel that SP needs another class, but that's a topic for a different subject line... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:50:14 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Kevin Stevens" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:51:47 -0600 Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. >It *would* be nice to be able to run 275/17's front and 275/18's back. With >the 35 profile I'm forced to run 245 fronts to keep within the ABS >tolerance. That's one reason I was looking forward to the G-forces. > >Oh well. > >KeS ====================== Do you really want the ABS to be functional during an autocross? I thought the general consensus was that ABS was more of a problem then it was good while autocrossing. If it's gonna be detrimental to autocrossing then wouldn't the old "Oh my, I've got a burnt out fuse?" trick take care of the problem? Just curious. It works on airbag fuses anyway. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:51:43 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Jay Mitchell" , "Kent Rafferty" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:00:50 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Jay Mitchell To: Scotty *BOB* White ; Kent Rafferty ; autocross list ; Jay Mitchell Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:36 AM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >Scotty sez: > > > The problem is the skill level of those currently driving >Elans is >>nowhere near the level of Curt O or Shaunna M, (IMNSHO) > >And, I might point out, your NSHO isn't necessarily shared by >every observer. True, but some might think YOU are a gifted driver ;-) In any case, if the Elan can make a poor driver >win as you claim, why wouldn't a really GOOD driver buy one and >then REALLY stomp everybody's butt? Uhhhh, lesseee, A-V-A-I-L-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y? Some people don't like the easy out? R-E-L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y? Some people just don't fit in one? What else would you do with one the other 363 days a year? Park it in a barn and let the chickens roost in it like Cave? So far, it's clear from >Nationals results that at least three cars - the 911, the RX7tt, >and the Elan - have the POTENTIAL to win ASP. That's what >classing is about: CAR POTENTIAL. It just hasn't been shown that >the Elan's potential is a class higher than the potential of the >other two cars. And as long as the Elan drivers continue to hack it up they will continue to have the potential and most likely will win a few. Again, look at the drivers of the Tri-point car, Nagler ran every event he could drive to in 97 and Shaunna, well..... >> yet the Elans seem >>to beat them almost every time > >"Almost every time" is not true. ONE Elan finishing first ahead >of the RX7tt at one Nationals - 1997 - is not the same as the >"Elans beating them every time," now, is it Hey! Did I say every time? NO! Don't put words in my mouth, i don't want anything from you touching me, I don't know where it's been ;-) sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:53:46 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Kent Rafferty" , "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:02:53 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal DOOOOOHHHHHH!!!! That's gotta hurt don't it jay?? ;-) BWA HAAH AAH AAh ahah ah heeh ehe he he ;-) sbw -----Original Message----- From: Kent Rafferty To: Jay Mitchell ; autocross list Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:36 AM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >Naw, Elans are real underdogs..... Lets look at the the top AND >bottom of A/SP at 98 Nationals (from memory ;-): > >1. Tri-Point RX-7 4. 911 >2. Elan 5. Elan >3. Elan 6. Elan > >And now, the bottom: > >7. Tri Point RX-7 13. 911 >8. Viper 14. MR2 >9. 911 15. 911 >10. 911 16. 911 >11. 911 17. 911 >12. Viper 18. 911 > >No Elans in the non-trophy positions. Yes, all of the Elan pilots >are good but in one case a trophy-winning Elan driver autoxed >only a couple of times all season! A/SP included two (I think) >former national champions that didn't even trophy. > >Oh, there were two trophies in A/SPL - both Elans. So, 7 of 8 >ASP/ASPL trophy positions were taken by a marque (Elan) >and a half (Tri Point RX-7). > >Kent Rafferty > >>Bingo. Claims that ASP is "dominated" by Elans are just not true. >>Of the top four finishers at Nationals in 98, there were two >>Elans, one RX7tt, and one 911. Curt was around .8 seconds off of >>the first place time, and the spread between 1st and 4th in BSP >>was pretty similar. It sure looks to me like a 911 can be >>competitive in ASP. And, if the potential is there, you shouldn't >>reward the other 911 drivers just because they haven't figured >>out how to achieve that potential. > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 11:57:44 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:06:40 -0800 Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Linnhoff To: Kevin Stevens ; Scotty *BOB* White ; Robert M. Pickrell Jr. Cc: Team.Net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:50 AM Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. >>It *would* be nice to be able to run 275/17's front and 275/18's back. >With >>the 35 profile I'm forced to run 245 fronts to keep within the ABS >>tolerance. That's one reason I was looking forward to the G-forces. >> >>Oh well. >> >>KeS >====================== >Do you really want the ABS to be functional during an autocross? I >thought the general consensus was that ABS was more of a problem then it >was good while autocrossing. NOT! sbw >If it's gonna be detrimental to autocrossing then wouldn't the old "Oh >my, I've got a burnt out fuse?" trick take care of the problem? > >Just curious. It works on airbag fuses anyway. ;^) > >See you on course. > >Eric Linnhoff in KC >#69DS TLS #13 >'98 Neon R/T > > >You jump in front of my car When you know all the time >That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive >You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain >You say you just want me to take you for a drive >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >"Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix > > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:09:37 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Scotty *BOB* White" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:07:12 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Scotty sez: > There a bazillion Miatas on lots every day >for wayyyyyy under $20k. Find me an Elan for that kinda money that's Sp >prepared? Well, uhhh, you don't pay very close attention now, do you? Charlie Cave offered his Elan fer sale, I believe it was about a year and a half ago, for 15 large. I'd say that's an SP prepared one, wouldn't you? > These guys in SCCA say the reason that the Viper and the 993TT are >in sp and not stock is largely beacuse they are not readily available to all >(read too expensive) so what in the hell is the difference with the 35 year >old Lotus??!! I submit, NONE! Scotty, if you want an Elan I can find you a primo one for under $20k. SP prep might add another 7-10k if you gold-plate everything and pay somebody else to do all the work. That's WAY less than a fully prepped 911 or RX7tt. In fact, the Elan is a real bargain by comparison. > If it is hard to get for the average racer wether it because of price or >pure numbers of cars still living the issue should remain the same no matter >the reason! If "the average racer" can't read classifieds, it might be hard for him/her to find an Elan. Otherwise, no sweat. Jay "you wanna buy one?" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:09:38 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Kent Rafferty" , "autocross list" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:59:41 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Kent types: >Naw, Elans are real underdogs..... Sarcasm isn't very productive here. I've said that three cars are proven to be competitive in ASP, and that Elans aren't dominant. > Lets look at the the top AND >bottom of A/SP at 98 Nationals (from memory ;-): >No Elans in the non-trophy positions. Look at the TIMES of the slower Elans, though. They were off the winning Elan's time by substantial amounts. > Yes, all of the Elan pilots >are good but in one case a trophy-winning Elan driver autoxed >only a couple of times all season! And this proves what? > A/SP included two (I think) >former national champions that didn't even trophy. As compared to other classes, is that a larger or smaller number? Or have you made the comparison? At any given Nationals, how many former champions compete and fail to trophy? All it takes is ONE example of a car finishing well to prove that the POTENTIAL is there. If other folks haven't yet achieved that car's potential, their finishing positions shouldn't be considered in classing decisions. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:11:42 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Eric Linnhoff" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:11:31 -0800 Subject: RE: G-Force 18" availability. > ====================== > Do you really want the ABS to be functional during an autocross? I > thought the general consensus was that ABS was more of a problem then it > was good while autocrossing. > > If it's gonna be detrimental to autocrossing then wouldn't the old "Oh > my, I've got a burnt out fuse?" trick take care of the problem? > > Just curious. It works on airbag fuses anyway. ;^) > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC Um, my Corvette(s) have always had *real* ABS, that actually helps the car brake better (that inside wheel lockup thing, don'cha know?) and keeps the tires from flat-spotting. Maybe it helps that it generally keeps all four wheels on the ground... KeS (ain't pulling the fuse) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:17:50 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Kevin Stevens'" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:19:29 -0700 Subject: RE: G-Force 18" availability. > Um, my Corvette(s) have always had *real* ABS, that actually helps the car > brake better (that inside wheel lockup thing, don'cha know?) and keeps the > tires from flat-spotting. Maybe it helps that it generally keeps all four > wheels on the ground... > > KeS > > (ain't pulling the fuse) --- I agree. Only a truly shitty ABS system may need to "die" for a race. I dont recall many times where Ive passed the braking threshold myself..and needed it. Thats the trick, be smarter than the car is. Dont LET it engage. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:18:18 1999 From: ConeChasr@aol.com To: briang@adnc.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:17:38 EST Subject: Re: Alignment Question for DSMs In a message dated 4/1/99 10:42:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, briang@adnc.com writes: << ranted I am a big guy for a Miata at 215 lbs but there was a dramatic change in the settings. >> Just curious--Would this apply to all cars or only small cars i.e. a miata? I'm rather light (155lbs) and my car is rather overweight (3200lbs). Would it still make as large a difference with me in my car during an alignment as it would for you guys in your Miatae? Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:22:28 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Kevin Stevens" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:31:40 -0800 Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Stevens To: Eric Linnhoff Cc: Team.Net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 11:12 AM Subject: RE: G-Force 18" availability. >> ====================== >> Do you really want the ABS to be functional during an autocross? I >> thought the general consensus was that ABS was more of a problem then it >> was good while autocrossing. >> >> If it's gonna be detrimental to autocrossing then wouldn't the old "Oh >> my, I've got a burnt out fuse?" trick take care of the problem? >> >> Just curious. It works on airbag fuses anyway. ;^) >> >> See you on course. >> >> Eric Linnhoff in KC > >Um, my Corvette(s) have always had *real* ABS, that actually helps the car >brake better (that inside wheel lockup thing, don'cha know?) and keeps the >tires from flat-spotting. Maybe it helps that it generally keeps all four >wheels on the ground... And if yo gotta run Hooters, you better not even THINK about flat spotting a tire unless you are made of $$$$ money! sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:25:14 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'ConeChasr@aol.com'" , briang@adnc.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:26:45 -0600 Subject: RE: Alignment Question for DSMs I would say it applies to all cars on a stock suspention especially. My Supra changes .4 deg, and the VR4 changes .3 (on each side of both) with my lard-ass in the car. > -----Original Message----- > From: ConeChasr@aol.com [SMTP:ConeChasr@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 1:18 PM > To: briang@adnc.com > Cc: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Alignment Question for DSMs > > In a message dated 4/1/99 10:42:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, > briang@adnc.com > writes: > > << ranted I am a big guy > for a Miata at 215 lbs but there was a dramatic change in the settings. > >> > > Just curious--Would this apply to all cars or only small cars i.e. a > miata? > I'm rather light (155lbs) and my car is rather overweight (3200lbs). > Would > it still make as large a difference with me in my car during an alignment > as > it would for you guys in your Miatae? > > Daniel Ledford > 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:31:22 1999 From: "Steven N. Burkett" To: Jay Mitchell Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:26:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: SP Proposal On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Jay Mitchell wrote: > Scotty, if you want an Elan I can find you a primo one for under > $20k. SP prep might add another 7-10k if you gold-plate > everything and pay somebody else to do all the work. That's WAY > less than a fully prepped 911 or RX7tt. In fact, the Elan is a > real bargain by comparison. Clean '93 RX-7's can be had for 14-18K. Heavily modded ones get up into the 20's, IF they're well done and otherwise straight. There's a TriPoint '93 with 60K on it for $22,000 on traderonline. I don't know what specific mods are allowed in SP, but unless you want to drop a 3-rotor in, or change out the Turbos, I'd say the 7-10K would be on the high side for an RX-7. So let's stick with bashing 911's, m'kay? ;-) Steven '93 RX-7, SS newbie. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:36:49 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: autocross list Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:38:29 -0600 Subject: Wanted..dead RX7 Parts Should anyone come across a 93-95 RX7 that bit the dust..lemme know. Looking for wheels. Thanks! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:48:46 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Steven N. Burkett" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:46:19 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Steven contributed: >Clean '93 RX-7's can be had for 14-18K. Realistically, so can a clean Elan. 12k or so can get you a good one that hasn't been excessively screwed with. > Heavily modded ones get up into >the 20's, IF they're well done and otherwise straight. "Heavily modded" may be a bad deal if you wanna have a legal SP car. You might have to undo some of the mods just to get the car legal. Better to get an original one and start from there. Better yet, buy one that's already been developed and proven to be capable of winning. BOTH the Cave Elan and the Nagler RX7tt were offered for sale after having won Nationals. >There's a TriPoint '93 with 60K on it for $22,000 on traderonline. I think when Craig Nagler put his up for sale, it was under $30k ready to compete, and presumably legal. My memory may be off on that, however. >I'd say the 7-10K would be on >the high side for an RX-7. It's really on the high side for an Elan, too. I was being conservative. If you've got $20k to put into an SP car AND you know what does and doesn't work, I'd say you could wind up with a primo ASP Elan. And change. >So let's stick with bashing 911's, m'kay? ;-) I'm not bashing, I'm defending. ;<) It's OK with me if the RX7tt, 911, and Elan all stay in ASP, even though my ASP car isn't any one of those. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:49:29 1999 From: "May I Pas" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:49:13 PST Subject: HELP DSM'ers! or anyone else... I am looking for a little help. I am in need of a set of 17" STOCK GSX rims. I don't need the tires. Do you know here I might be able to get a set. (other than dealers please) The problem is that there aren't any aftermarket 17x6.5 wheels. I need them to stay in G Stock. Thanks, Thanh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:53:04 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Joshua Hadler Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:54:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: SP Proposal --- Joshua Hadler wrote: > Kent Rafferty wrote: > > > Why not bump the X1/9 into > CSP? Obviously > it's the dominant car in DSP. Heck, why not bump the carb'd X1/9's to DS with the FI ones? Oh wait, they *did* that already... :-P Craig "drove the X to work today" B. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 12:53:26 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'May I Pas'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:54:50 -0600 Subject: RE: HELP DSM'ers! or anyone else... If you look at the new GSXs, I think the OZs on there are $150/ea. VERY reasonably priced for an OZ wheel. > -----Original Message----- > From: May I Pas [SMTP:mayipas@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 1:49 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: HELP DSM'ers! or anyone else... > > I am looking for a little help. I am in need of a set of 17" STOCK GSX > rims. I don't need the tires. Do you know here I might be able to get a > set. (other than dealers please) > > The problem is that there aren't any aftermarket 17x6.5 wheels. I need > them to stay in G Stock. > > Thanks, > > Thanh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 13:37:59 1999 From: "gene" To: "Steven N. Burkett" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:28:39 -0500 Subject: Re: SP Proposal High side? I disagree, particularly considering how finicky 3rd gen RX-7s can be with regards to modifications. Moreover, I guess it depends on how competitive one wants to be, e.g., the Tri-Point RX-7 has a $4,000 set of coilovers. Heck, I've a '93 with only modest engine mods that total $4500 (ASP legal, of course) and I have yet to touch the suspension, wheels, or tires. It's always much less expensive to buy a car that's already modded. Cheers, Gene Gene D. Felber, Ph.D., M.S.P.H. Epidemiologist and Biostatistician Director of Outcomes Research Total Therapeutic Management, Inc. 125 TownPark Drive, Suite 360 Kennesaw, GA 30144 Tel: 770.795.0935 Fax: 770.795.0965 www.rxttm.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven N. Burkett To: Jay Mitchell Cc: Scotty *BOB* White ; Kent Rafferty ; Joshua Hadler ; autocross list ; Pat Kelly Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 2:26 PM Subject: Re: SP Proposal > > On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Jay Mitchell wrote: > > > Scotty, if you want an Elan I can find you a primo one for under > > $20k. SP prep might add another 7-10k if you gold-plate > > everything and pay somebody else to do all the work. That's WAY > > less than a fully prepped 911 or RX7tt. In fact, the Elan is a > > real bargain by comparison. > > Clean '93 RX-7's can be had for 14-18K. Heavily modded ones get up into > the 20's, IF they're well done and otherwise straight. > > There's a TriPoint '93 with 60K on it for $22,000 on traderonline. > > I don't know what specific mods are allowed in SP, but unless you want to > drop a 3-rotor in, or change out the Turbos, I'd say the 7-10K would be on > the high side for an RX-7. > > So let's stick with bashing 911's, m'kay? ;-) > > Steven > '93 RX-7, SS newbie. > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 13:53:52 1999 From: John Lieberman To: LOTUSRCN@aol.com Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:57:01 -0800 Subject: Re: Course design/speed limits LOTUSRCN@aol.com wrote: > > So I don't think that the speeds were too high. I think that it may > have felt like 75 MPH to the driver, but it wasn't. BINGO! That's the point I was trying to make. Let's say you know that a given car runs out of second gear at 63 mph. You watch his run and note that on the fastest part of the course he bumped into third for about 2 seconds and then had to slow back down. He comes back to grid and starts bragging about how he hit 75 in that stretch. You know damned good and well that he can't get from 63 to 75 in 2 seconds so you've got all the ammunition you need to completely de-fuse his 75 mph boast. John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:24:22 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Joe Goeke" , "Kent Rafferty" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:21:32 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Joe sez: >> All it takes is ONE example of a car finishing well to prove that >> the POTENTIAL is there. If other folks haven't yet achieved that >> car's potential, their finishing positions shouldn't be >> considered in classing decisions. > >You can't be serious. It takes more that one example of a car finishing >well to show anything! Lemme clarify. It only takes one example of a car consistently finishing well, as Curt's 911, the Nagler RX7tt, and a couple of Elans have all done, to prove the potential. > One event or so without looking at the other talent >or preparation in the class is meaningless data. As you should be able to see from my earlier posts, I'm NOT talking about one EVENT. I'm talking about specific CARS doing well at multiple EVENTS over a period of several YEARS. > You have to look at the >averages over the years at multiple events, and factor in preparation level, No, you can't get a valid picture that way. All I have to do to prove something is possible (a car being competitive in a class) is find one example (one car) that does that. If other folks haven't yet managed to field Nationals-winning RX7tt, that only proves that they haven't yet found as much of the potential that the Nagler car clearly shows is there. Ditto the 911, and the Elan. You can only consider the best performance a model to show the potential of that model. BY DEFINITION, the also-rans have yet to realize the potential. >I don't know if it should move or if >a change is needed, but the total picture of Lotus dominance is obvious to >me. "Dominance" means "nobody else can win." That assertion has been proven wrong in ASP at Nationals multiple times in the last three years. IF the Elan were truly dominant, it would be crushing the class. Coming in second ain't "dominance." Winning by a few tenths per day ain't dominance. The Elan does NOT dominate ASP. It's an excellent choice of car for the class, and it's a real bargain compared to an RX7tt or a 911, which is why it's so popular . But popularity ain't dominance, either. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:33:00 1999 From: CCoxx@aol.com To: sburkett@ooi.com, jemitchell@compuserve.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:30:42 EST Subject: Re: SP Proposal I think you underestimate the cost of building an SP tt. shocks $3,000 springs w/adjustabel collars $450 $ swaybars $500 2 sets of 17x 10-11 wheels $2,400 Twin Pickup Electromotive $ 2,200 Exhaust w/carbon fiber muffler $1000 seats $1000 belts $200 reduction pulleys $500 suspension bushings $400 High volume fuel pump $300 fuel pressure regulator $250 Intercooler $1000 Flywheel and pressure plate $750 total $13,950 That is the total for the parts. It also costs money to put the stuff on and tune the car. So it is big bucks, and that is why the car is soooo fast with the RIGHT driver. Chris Cox From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:41:35 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Kevin Stevens Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:41:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: G-Force 18" availability. On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Kevin Stevens wrote: > It *would* be nice to be able to run 275/17's front and 275/18's back. With > the 35 profile I'm forced to run 245 fronts to keep within the ABS > tolerance. That's one reason I was looking forward to the G-forces. How does one figure out what range of overall diameter difference from front to rear size tires is within ABS tolerance? Is it mentioned in some manufacturers workshop manuals? TIA Wes Shew From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:46:52 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Kevin Stevens , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:45:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: Chevette the Rover V8 weighs 320#...lighter than a lot of iron block four cylinders! CAB --- Kevin Stevens wrote: > I'm not sure that having the car's center of mass and > polar moment located > at the crank is necessarily a good idea, though! > > KeS > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net > [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > > Behalf Of Peter Gulliver > > Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:17 > > To: autox@autox.team.net > > Subject: Chevette > > > > > > A few years ago a Guy in UK fit a a Rover V8 (old > Buick Alum block) into a > > British Chevette. Claimed that a V8 was nothing > else than a 4 cyl with 4 > > extra cyl added. Motor mounts almost identical etc > was a extremely Rad > > looking machine Supposedly wheels spun in 2nd gear > all the way up > > an uphill > > straight, in the wet. Guy thought clutch was > slipping. Article about it in > > Car & Car Conversions about 4 years ago > > > > Pete Gulliver > > > > > > > > >Subject: Chevette > > > > > >I was just wondering, has anyone ever seriously > prepared a Chevette for > > >SP or P? Anyone have any stories? > > >- -- > > >Patrick Washburn > > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:48:26 1999 From: "Fedja Jeleskovic" To: "May I Pas" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:46:42 -0500 Subject: Re: HELP DSM'ers! or anyone else... Hi there, The best place to look for it is: http://trader.dsm.org This is our place for selling/buying stuff for DSMs and this link is coming out of our main site: http://www.dsm.org Good luck! Fedja 95 AWD #34 ESP "May I Pas" on 04/02/99 02:49:13 PM Please respond to "May I Pas" To: autox@autox.team.net cc: (bcc: Fedja Jeleskovic/PicTel) Subject: HELP DSM'ers! or anyone else... I am looking for a little help. I am in need of a set of 17" STOCK GSX rims. I don't need the tires. Do you know here I might be able to get a set. (other than dealers please) The problem is that there aren't any aftermarket 17x6.5 wheels. I need them to stay in G Stock. Thanks, Thanh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:50:34 1999 From: Sam Strano To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:58:06 -0500 Subject: Re: SP Proposal At 04:30 PM 4/2/99 EST, you wrote: >I think you underestimate the cost of building an SP tt. Who wouldn't with the list down there!!!! But, I doubt you *need* all of that stuff. >shocks $3,000 I'm sure GAB's or Koni's would be just fine with a little work. >springs w/adjustabel collars $450 $ >swaybars $500 >2 sets of 17x 10-11 wheels $2,400 I bet some 17x9's would work with from BBS or something. Maybe not optimal, and you don't NEED two sets, although it is sure nice. I only have 1 set of wheels right now for my Camaro. >Twin Pickup Electromotive $ 2,200 >Exhaust w/carbon fiber muffler $1000 Why not run a straight pipe? Or a Borla, or any number of other things that weight 10 pounds more, and save $500? >seats $1000 Do you need two $500 seats? Nope. >belts $200 >reduction pulleys $500 >suspension bushings $400 >High volume fuel pump $300 >fuel pressure regulator $250 >Intercooler $1000 >Flywheel and pressure plate $750 > total $13,950 >That is the total for the parts. It also costs money to put the stuff on and >tune >the car. So it is big bucks, and that is why the car is soooo fast with the >RIGHT driver. And on the other hand there are lots of cars with big $$$ in them that aren't fast, and there are those with very little $$$ invested that are rockets. Common thread seems to be the drivers. Although ASP sure strikes me as by far the most expensive place to run an SP car. ESP being the cheapest IMHO. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:52:58 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Craig Blome" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:53:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Chevette >the Rover V8 weighs 320#...lighter than a lot of iron >block four cylinders! > >CAB ======================= And it'll lighten your wallet by an equivalent amount. BTW, is nitrous oxide legal in Stock class? ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 14:59:04 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Joshua Hadler Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:58:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Joshua Hadler wrote: > absolutely no bearing on where or how a car gets classed. Curt, and > Dwight before him, have shown us that the 911 does have the potential in > ASP. What setups (model year, carb or injection, engine size...) do Curt and Dwight Mitchell's (now sold to new owner I heard) 911 run? They're both very different I recall? Shows they were'nt fully developed yet? I remember Dwight at a Pro saying way back that his car could be faster if he swapped the 2.7L engine for the 3.0 or larger. -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 15:01:27 1999 From: William Wagner To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:01:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: 1999 CIR Schedule The long awaited :) Central Illinois schedule is ready to go. See below or for contact info and the schedule, check our web site at: http://www.soltec.net/~wcwagner/cir.html I'm also working on adding directions to all of our sites. Hope to have that completed in a few days. Central Illinois Region 1999 Autocross Schedule April 18 - Champaign County Fairgrounds, Urbana, IL April 24 & 25 - Univ of Illinois, Assembly Hall Parking Lot, Urbana, IL May 2 - Parkland Truck Driving Range, Rantoul, IL May 16 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL May 23 - Champaign County Fairgrounds, Urbana, IL June 6 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL June 20 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL June 27 - Rantoul Aviation Center, Rantoul, IL July 11 - Utica Go Cart Track July 17 & 18 - Vermilion County Airport, Danville, IL July 25 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL Aug 8 - Utica Go Cart Track Aug 22 - Rantoul Aviation Center, Rantoul, IL Aug 29 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL Sept 12 - Parkland Truck Driving Range, Rantoul, IL Sept 19 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL Sept 25 & 26 - Vermilion County Airport, Danville, IL Sept 26 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL Oct 10 - Illinois Central College, East Peoria, IL Oct 16 & 17 - Vermilion County Airport, Danville, IL Nov 20 & 21 - Vermilion County Airport, Danville, IL Bill Wagner CIR Editor 414 N High St Rantoul IL 61866-1821 e-mail: wcwagner@soltec.net Hm: 217 893 8685 Wk: 217 244 4136 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 15:05:50 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:03:54 EST Subject: Re: Chevette In a message dated 4/2/99 4:54:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, eric10mm@qni.com writes: << is nitrous oxide legal in Stock class? ;^) >> Yes. But not for the car. You inhale a lot of that stuff, don't you, Hawse? << To: , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:13:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Chevette ><< is nitrous oxide legal in Stock class? ;^) > >> > > Yes. But not for the car. > You inhale a lot of that stuff, don't you, Hawse? > << You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 15:22:35 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: Auto-X mailing list Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:22:55 -0600 (EST) Subject: Re: Chevette On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Eric Linnhoff wrote: > BTW, is nitrous oxide legal in Stock class? ;^) Sigh. We've been HERE before. For the *car* or the *driver*, Eric? Dale "just say N2O" Botkin --- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -Mitch Ratliffe, Technology Review April, 1992 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 15:28:40 1999 From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net, we2fat4asp@seanet.com, jhadler@rmi.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 17:29:09 -0500 Subject: SP Proposal Now what are you A/SPer's thinking? How could you say that A/SP is the best class. It might be the best class for the variety of fast cars it has in it, but to say it is the best class, is wrong.All of you need to stop whining and tell SCCA just to combine A/SP and B/SP and let the corvettes, porsches, mazdas and elans get it on. You can bring on the 911's and Curt Ormiston, besides Curt only wins at the Pro Solos. But I don't think the A/SPer's want to be introduced with a rude awakeing at the nationals when Daniel Popp, Phil Currin or Scotty White clean their clocks if the two classes actually combined. To all of you B/SPers, you better be ready to do well at the nationals, because my brother is pissed that he missed last years nationals!!!!This had been a message from Adam Popp's email system From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 15:33:26 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Sam Strano Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:33:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: SP Proposal On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Sam Strano wrote: > rockets. Common thread seems to be the drivers. Although ASP sure strikes > me as by far the most expensive place to run an SP car. ESP being the > cheapest IMHO. Tell that to the Supra tt guys. ;-) -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 16:00:24 1999 From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net, jhadler@rmi.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:01:41 -0500 Subject: SP Proposal The reason why the newer vettes went to B/SP is because they were in the wrong class. They belong in B/SP where the vettes belong. The older competitive vettes in B/SP have a lot more power then the newer vettes do and thats where the vettes have the advantage on A/SP. So Josh I guess you haven't seeing my brother Daniel drive yet have ya'. I bet if you put him in any top A/SP drivers car he would beat any top A/SP driver. I don't think any of the top A/SP drivers could hop in a B/SP vette and beat him or any other top B/SP driver. Besides Josh what are you worried about, you drive a 914 in C/SP. We'll see who's the quickest at the nationals and who is right. This is the last that I have to say on this subject, I'm out!!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 16:22:10 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Sam Strano , autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:21:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: SP Proposal --- Sam Strano wrote: > Although ASP sure strikes > me as by far the most expensive place to run an SP > car. ESP being the > cheapest IMHO. > ??? Tires get pricey for those hairy monsters in ESP... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 16:24:11 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Adam Popp Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:24:12 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Adam Popp wrote: > Now what are you A/SPer's thinking? How could you say that A/SP is the > best class. Uhhh, Adam, buddy, better look at class times at Nationals. They're on the Web. Or the PAX index. ASP is a quicker class than BSP, and that's not at issue. Nobody's saying BEST anything, only "quickest," and Scotty definitely agrees, seeing as how he spent more than a year ranting and whining to get his car reclassed to BSP, claiming it just couldn't be competitive. Interestingly enough, he trophied in ASP (5th, I believe) the last year he ran there. > It might be the best class for the variety of fast cars it > has in it, but to say it is the best class, is wrong. Nobody SAID "best." Take a reread and have a beer. IOW, chill out. >All of you need to > stop whining and tell SCCA just to combine A/SP and B/SP and let the > corvettes, porsches, mazdas and elans get it on. I'm OK with that. Scotty, wanna 'splain it all to Adam here? Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 16:42:26 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:40:36 -0800 Subject: Is the SCCA national office closed today? Their fax number doesn't answer, and neither do any of the phone numbers. Anyone know why? Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 16:44:49 1999 From: Paul Hagger To: "'Josh Sirota'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:44:42 -0800 Subject: RE: Is the SCCA national office closed today? Good Friday? -----Original Message----- From: Josh Sirota [mailto:jss@marimba.com] Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 3:41 PM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: Is the SCCA national office closed today? Their fax number doesn't answer, and neither do any of the phone numbers. Anyone know why? Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 17:03:59 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Jay Mitchell" , "Adam Popp" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:12:53 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Jay Mitchell To: Adam Popp Cc: jhadler@rmi.net ; we2fat4asp@seanet.com ; autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 3:24 PM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >Adam Popp wrote: > >> Now what are you A/SPer's thinking? How could you say that A/SP is the >> best class. > >Uhhh, Adam, buddy, better look at class times at Nationals. They're on >the Web. Or the PAX index. ASP is a quicker class than BSP, and that's >not at issue. Nobody's saying BEST anything, only "quickest," and Scotty >definitely agrees, seeing as how he spent more than a year ranting and >whining to get his car reclassed to BSP, Ranting and whining? I love this, but yer skills at picking a fight are gettin pretty soft jay. Interesting that an overwhelming *M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y* of the SPAG and SEB decided it was a good idea too, hmmmmm... claiming it just couldn't be >competitive. Interestingly enough, he trophied in ASP (5th, I believe) >the last year he ran there. And of all the top ASPers that were there in 97 none of them were prepared and focused like I was, IOW, they all drove like crap and I have told all of them to their face incase you were wondering. Like I said before if all the top Elan guys continue to hack it up like they have been I think when Curt or Ren get focused they will have a jacket too. Notice that Phil beat me that year also ;-) >I'm OK with that. Scotty, wanna 'splain it all to Adam here? Adam is like many other Corvette enthusiests but with the added fuel of his big bro being an awesome driver and Adam being a little biased. The Corvettes are where they belong and the ASP class is being dominated in the top 5 by drivers that have ample room for improvement. Put Bob T or Shaunna, or Gary T or Milligan in one of those cars and its gonna get ugly real quick!! Is ASP soft if you're in a Lotus? Yep you bet! sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 17:08:57 1999 From: "Glenn Duensing" To: "Josh Sirota" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:06:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Is the SCCA national office closed today? >Their fax number doesn't answer, and neither do any of the phone >numbers. Anyone know why? > >Josh Good Friday maybe? Glenn From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 17:32:42 1999 From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net, jhadler@rmi.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:33:34 -0500 Subject: Re: No insult here! Hey Josh, I wasn't trying into insult you, I was just trying to tell how I felt about the subject. If you haven't seen any older vettes be as quick as the top A/SP cars, well in 1997, Daniel was 4 tenths faster than the leader in A/SP on the north course and just a couple tenths slower on the south course, but he was being a conehead on both days. In 1996 he was just as fast as A/SP without hitting any cones. If you don't believe me,check the results out on the net. Last year a Datsun won because Daniel wasn't there. When Daniel goes to the nationals he makes the other corvette drivers want to beat him and therefore they go faster. So that's why a Datsun won B/SP last year. I'm pretty sure that SCCA will not combine both A/SP and B/SP this year, so what I was saying was we will see who is quicker between A/SP and B/SP this year at the nationals. If it sounded like I was insulting you, I apologize and I'm out. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 17:48:13 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Adam Popp" , , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:57:43 -0800 Subject: Re: No insult here! -----Original Message----- From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net ; jhadler@rmi.net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 4:33 PM Subject: Re: No insult here! >Hey Josh, I wasn't trying into insult you, I was just trying to tell >how I felt about the subject. If you haven't seen any older vettes be as >quick as the top A/SP cars, well in 1997, Daniel was 4 tenths faster >than the leader in A/SP on the north course and just a couple tenths >slower on the south course, but he was being a conehead on both days. But hey Adam, as your brother knows, CONES COUNT :-) In >1996 he was just as fast as A/SP without hitting any cones. Ahhhhh yes but ASP and BSP ran at different times and wheather conditions. Last year a Datsun won >because Daniel wasn't there. A datsun won because it was driven very well and that driver did what he needed to do to win, which sometimes means just not hitting cones ;-) sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 17:55:12 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:53:02 EST Subject: Add me to Kansas City Mail If any of you guys are throwing out mail about the Kansas City Region please include me! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 17:59:22 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:58:45 CST Subject: Short list of cars with ABS that works So far, I've read endorsements of ABS systems by drivers of: Corvette MR2 Supra Mixed thumbs up/down depending on model and year: Camaro/Firebird (I don't remember the details, but I think newer = better) Sucks beyond belief: neon most others (would have to do actual research to find them, but they're on record) I've often thought that this forum is the one place where this kind of list could be reliably gathered, so as long as the subject came up, I'll try to keep the ball rolling and make something useful to show for it... Speak up now if you love or hate your ABS. Spare the rest of us the pitfall of getting stuck with a dog, or tell us how you'd rather cut off your big toe than have the non-ABS version of your car. My guess is the dogs will outnumber the worthy systems by 8:1 or more. I'd also bet some of you have sold off cars with ABS for that reason alone. There, that should bring some of you lurkers out of the woodwork! -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 18:04:51 1999 From: "Jodi Fordahl" To: "Wes Shew" , "Joshua Hadler" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:03:30 -0800 Subject: RE: 911's & SP Proposal Curt's car is a 1974 with a 3.2L engine and Motech fuel injection. Having driven the car the last couple of weekends and lots of other ASP 911's I would say that Curt's car has the best shot at doing well at Nationals than any other I've driven, but I don't believe it can win. -Jodi Fordahl -----Original Message----- From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Wes Shew Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 1:59 PM To: Joshua Hadler Cc: Team dot net; Wes Shew Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Joshua Hadler wrote: > absolutely no bearing on where or how a car gets classed. Curt, and > Dwight before him, have shown us that the 911 does have the potential in > ASP. What setups (model year, carb or injection, engine size...) do Curt and Dwight Mitchell's (now sold to new owner I heard) 911 run? They're both very different I recall? Shows they were'nt fully developed yet? I remember Dwight at a Pro saying way back that his car could be faster if he swapped the 2.7L engine for the 3.0 or larger. -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 18:15:39 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: we2fat4asp@seanet.com, raft321@fuse.net, autox@autox.team.net, Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:11:24 EST Subject: Re: No insult here! Or is old Jap Iron, Prepared the right way the feast of the day? What do you think Scotty? No dog in this fight and proud Mike B. TLS#1 1986 March-Apache Sports 2000 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 19:00:23 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: "Scotty *BOB* White" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:56:09 -0500 Subject: Re: SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Scotty *BOB* White To: Jay Mitchell ; Adam Popp Cc: jhadler@rmi.net ; autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 7:04 PM Subject: Re: SP Proposal >>and Scotty >>definitely agrees, seeing as how he spent more than a year ranting and >>whining to get his car reclassed to BSP, > > Ranting and whining? I love this, but yer skills at picking a fight are >gettin pretty soft jay. Interesting that an overwhelming *M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y* >of the SPAG and SEB decided it was a good idea too, hmmmmm... > Actually it took WAY more than a year of ranting and whining before your *M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y* were convinced to make the change. Tell us how many times it got turned down. 'DOT Cost of racing in BSP saw a major escalation for me when this move happened. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 19:24:20 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Jeff Blankenship , autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:23:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Short list of cars with ABS that works I'll put in a mixed review of the Miata ABS. It stops faster in a straight line, esp. in the wet, but Bob help you if you trigger it in a corner entry... Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX --- Jeff Blankenship wrote: > So far, I've read endorsements of ABS systems by > drivers of: > Corvette > MR2 > Supra > > Mixed thumbs up/down depending on model and year: > Camaro/Firebird (I don't remember the details, but I > think newer = better) > > Sucks beyond belief: > neon > most others (would have to do actual research to find > them, but they're > on record) > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 19:29:26 1999 From: Popsracr@aol.com To: jss@marimba.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:16:22 EST Subject: Re: Is the SCCA national office closed today? I got through earlier today through their fax line. Must be busy with all the Dallas NT entries. Jim From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 19:38:58 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Scotty *BOB* White Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 21:39:50 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > Ranting and whining? I love this, but yer skills at picking a fight are > gettin pretty soft jay. Uhh, who's pickin' a fight? I was making a simple statement of fact. > Interesting that an overwhelming *M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y* > of the SPAG and SEB decided it was a good idea too, hmmmmm... Or maybe they just decided to give you what you wanted so you'd go away.... > And of all the top ASPers that were there in 97 none of them were > prepared and focused like I was, So NOW you know what your competitors were thinking AND exactly what they had done to their cars? Can you walk on water, too? ;<) >the ASP class is being dominated in the > top 5 by drivers that have ample room for improvement. Like Shauna and Curt? I didn't say it, you did.... > or Gary T or Milligan in one of those cars and its gonna get ugly real > quick!! Uhhh, Scotty, Gary DID campaign an ASP Lotus, although it was a Europa. Won, too. Was HE a "weak" driver back in '87 when he did that? Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 20:21:28 1999 From: "Alex Quirk" To: "Team. net" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:20:47 -0500 Subject: RE: Chevette or Shove-it... I'll Bite Pat!!!! I've NEVER been SERIOUS about any vehicle I've autocrossed! But I had more fun than most can imagine autocrossing 2 Chevettes and 1 Pontiac (Canadian twin) 1000......... They actually handle quite well and the '83 Pontiac 1000 that I drove to Topeka in 1995 to compete in DSP was basically stock (sagged springs and ALL and was bought for $75) except for a 32/36 Weber carb and Non-cat Walker DynoMax exhaust....AND going airborn through a ditch in the fog that spring REALLY didn't do anything for the front-end geometry....After 6 or 7 autocrosses that year I went to Topeka for the fun and found after the first day the the reason for the dartyness on the trip out was 3/4" of toe-in! I had toe adjustment done that night at the Goodyear store in Topeka...Gained 2 seconds the next day on my competition! I measured the steady state skid pad at 1.08 G right and 1.10 G left on 215/50-13 BFG R1's with my G-analyst...BUT 0-60 in 12 seconds just doesn't make it anymore..... The 1981 Chevette was more serious and developed up to 1.23 G before bicycling.....and the one year I had the Pacesetter header and Koni's and everything working, I couldn't attend Nationals at Salina..due to job problems...It could attain a 16.9 quarter mile(with 19 in stock) for that one season but it took me 5 years to figure out the "valvespring problem" that wouldn't allow me to get 0-60 in the almost quarter mile across the '92 Salina courses with J.G.Pasterjak of Grassroots Motorsports aboard in 1992 ...regretfully ...The CAR deserved MORE than that!!! It was like running a marathon with the Flu !!!! I do want to restore the '81 and attend at Topeka again....but it may be a while..and the car now has 170k on it.....I ran with the Pennsylvania Hillclimb Association for a while but just never really got the engine back to work before I gave up due to lack of funds in '94.......I DID find the best parts for suspension and BRAKES during that time though...and helped a few others set up a GM 'T' platform for autocross.... There were a number of V6 Chevettes done by Chevrolet but never made production...GM must've been afraid of a pint-size rocket that would beat their F-body and Corvette in the early 80's....and they already had the brakes under development for the Fiero to stop the beast....If you want to SEE what the British Vauxhall HSR- 2300 & 2600 V6 CHEVETTE was capable of with 270bhp on tap there are still numerous Scots winning competition there recently ...... http://www.s-s-a.demon.co.uk/pchGordon~.htm and http://www.s-s-a.demon.co.uk/pchAlan~.htm I imagine that Phil Ethier may enjoy this Chevette spiel again.... Have a great season! Alex Quirk TLS#2 St Marys PA vquirk@penn.com '81 Chevy Chevette DSP '92 Salina Nationals '83 Pontiac 1000 DSP '95 Topeka Nationals '89 Pontiac (YOU'VE got to be kidding!) Safari SW ESP "enjoy what you drive and DRIVE IT WELL!!!" ----------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600 From: washburn Subject: Chevette I was just wondering, has anyone ever seriously prepared a Chevette for SP or P? Anyone have any stories? - -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 20:22:27 1999 From: Paul Schelling & Kate Hughes To: "Steven N. Burkett" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:53:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Beginner questions - I read the FAQ ;-) Steven N. Burkett asked: > 1) Where can I get magnetic numbers, and how many digits do I need? For the very beginning the easiest thing to do is buy a sheet of magnet in a color contrasting your car. Get enough to cut out "LED-Style" numbers, 4 eighty-eights (one 88 for each side of the car). Cut them 2 inches wide and 5 inches tall, make a litle 90-degree wedge at the top and bottom and assemble them into whatever number you need. Cut another set 1 inch wide and 3 inches tall and assemble them into your class letters. > 2) My plan is to start > slow, possibly embarrassingly so, Two schools of thought here. I started out slow, embarrassingly so. Now I am less embarrassed and I go a little faster :-) (These are not related). I've always had fun and I've never been teased about it (except by siblings). Your car, your call. How much is your car worth? How close are the solid objects to the course? If it's a $300 pinto and you drive in Topeka, I wouldn't hold back :-) > > 3) Any additional hints on etiquette and culture out there? Everyone is so ready to help. As long as you don't ask for hours of their time or interrrupt their course-walk you'll be fine! Go to the trophy party even if you don't get a trophy. Have fun! Kate -- ----------------------------------------------------- Kate Hughes 93 Explorer "Gunhead" (tow vehicle) 91 Miata "Prudence" (BS autocrosser and summer fun) 77 Zink Z10-C "Roland" (CM autocrosser) 74 Landcruiser "Red Frankenstein" (barn ornament) 73 2002 "Owen" (Track events, retired (FOR SALE)) 86 325es new addition (Track events) (...or...) Paul "I'll get around to a new car" Schelling 93 Dakota Sport (does it all, ex-HS autocrosser) 83 Rabbit "Jasper" (ice racer) ----------------------------------------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 20:25:09 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: Josh Sirota Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:24:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Is the SCCA national office closed today? Good Friday Have a Happy Easter. --Rocky From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 20:27:13 1999 From: Loren Williams To: autox-digest Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 21:12:44 -0600 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Hey T.N, I have to ask the obvious question (being fully aware that the obvious answer is "we have enough classes already"): Why not create Super Street Prepared? We have 8 stock classes, we only have 5 SP classes. All of the existing SP classes are well-subscribed. So, rather than: a) Rearranging the whole mess to bump everyone DOWN to make room for the next generation of supercars (and making those cars that end up at the lower end completely uncompetitive in the process). or b) Telling owners of a few specific models that they just can't play in SP whether they're willing to play by those rules or not. why not c) Create a higher level of SP to put the Lotii, the RX7tt, the Viper, and whatever else is deemed worthy. -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 20:35:10 1999 From: "Brian Bender" To: "'Team.Net'" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:34:27 -0500 Subject: RE: IROC, therefore IAM Hey Eric, Build up yer little FWD whatchamawhoosit, run it one event in CP, and _then_ say that. I'm not saying _my_ car is anything to run screaming in terror from, but the top of the class does ol' Henry reasonably proud. ;-) (No offense to all you GM & ChryCo CP-ers, of course!) ============================================= - Brian Bender 91CP '91 Mustang LX "My toy is bigger'n... oh, never mind" Steel Cities Region, SCCA North Hills SSC Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:51:32 -0600 From: "Eric Linnhoff" Subject: Re: IROC, therefore IAM >What I would like to do is get a junker of the most un-autocross like Oh, you mean a Ford whatever. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 20:48:02 1999 From: "Peter Wong" To: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:47:37 -0800 Subject: A different perspective (Re: SP Proposal) I'm coming at things from a different perspective. I own a Viper that I like to autox and have kept it pretty much stock. It isn't even prepped to the extent that stock rules allow. Is a stock Viper competitive with an SP prepped ASP car? Have high caliber drivers with stock Vipers won ASP? If not, being stuck in ASP requires me to spend yet more money on my car if I want to win (disregard my lack of autox experience for now). In my region, I'm actually not arguing to go to SS...the SS class winner usually runs faster times than the ASP winner. All I'm saying is that not allowing production cars to be in stock makes the barrier to winning very high for a beginner who is being penalized for his choice of car. Perhaps the solution is to form SDSS "Super Duper Showroom Stock" and throw the showroom stock Vipers, Ferraris, 993TT, Lambos, Vectors, Aston Martins, etc... in there to duke it out. Peter From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 21:40:58 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: we2fat4asp@seanet.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:40:39 EST Subject: Re: No insult here! In a message dated 4/2/99 7:58:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, we2fat4asp@seanet.com writes: << and that driver did what he needed to do to win, which sometimes means just not hitting cones ;-) >> Can't we do something about this, um, unfair rule? ;-) Daniel 'I admit to being a conehead...sometimes' Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 21:43:00 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: jeff.mohler@wilcom.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:36:23 EST Subject: Re: HELP DSM'ers! or anyone else... In a message dated 4/2/99 2:54:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jeff.mohler@wilcom.com writes: << If you look at the new GSXs, I think the OZs on there are $150/ea >> Um, Jeff--these wheels are 16x6s... Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 22:21:53 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:21:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: No insult/sp/18"/DSM/abs/etc did I miss National bitch day or what? BTW, the 93-97 f-bodies have the abs that works, it wasn't until they "fixed" them in 98 when they started "not" working Jim Rohn Beater Racing lots of smoke from the front tires of Glenn's FS Z28, but no flat spots (whew) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 03:24:15 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:27:13 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal From: Sam Strano > Although ASP sure > strikes me as by far the most expensive place to run an SP car. ESP being > the cheapest IMHO. ESP was won last year by a car that I'd estimate cost 30K. Doesn't seem like that's any cheaper than the RX-7 and Elan prices being quoted in this thread. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 03:24:18 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:27:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame > Given that we are not being deluged by site > owners begging us to help wear out their pavement, it is only in > everyone's best interest to help keep the probabilites of incident as low > as possible. That's easy. Just don't have an autocross. I would think it's obvious that extremes are silly, but reading so many messages about people worrying that one roll over in 13 years (or similar statistics) is horrible and we should do more to prevent that, is just as extreme. If you want to live in a cacoon, fine. But don't force the rest of us into one. If a site location is so precarious that one accident will cause the site owner to cancel autocrossing there, then there are bigger problems with that relationship that should have been worked on rather than boring autocrossers to death with absurdly safe courses. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 05:00:41 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: rohns@doitnow.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:00:00 EST Subject: Re: No insult/sp/18"/DSM/abs/etc In a message dated 4/3/99 12:23:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, rohns@doitnow.com writes: << did I miss National bitch day or what? >> Nope, that's every day on Team.net... >=^) Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 05:50:24 1999 From: "Chris and Per Schroeder" To: , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 06:54:00 -0600 Subject: RE: Short list of cars with ABS that works Jeff was working on a list of cars where ABS works well. I'll add three more to the good list, and one to the bad Good: Nearly any BMW Celica Audi Quattro A4 Bad: Volkswagen (specifically, VR6 GTi's) Sure, a reasonably competent driver can outbrake ABS in a straight line...add a curve into that, or make the driver nervous at a big event...and the extra comfort afforded by a good ABS system really helps. Courses are not just one braking zone, or one corner...there are multiple braking points, turns, etc. So..if the ABS saves you on just one of those zones, and you've had a killer run elsewhere...It's just saved your ass, and given you a good run. I've been convinced in the 5 events that I've had in the Celica w/ ABS. Per From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 06:04:32 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net, bspvette@mailinglist.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:56:03 -0500 Subject: BSP Testosterone Hey Adam Popp, you having fun stirring the BSP/ASP pot ? We don't want a reversal back to putting the C4-C5 Corvettes in ASP. This happened to be a brilliant move on the SEB's part to give late model Corvette drivers a great place to play. Now that I have one I definitely have a dog in this fight! Ben Thatcher 86 Corvette Coupe BSP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 06:18:11 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:26:30 -0500 Subject: Best place to see Atlanta results Andrew VanWie and Rex Weatherford have developed the best link to see the results from Atlanta Region SCCA NOPI Solo II's fun event. You may want to add this address to your Bookmarks. http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/fun_event_99.htm The results on the Atlanta Region website are flawed and incomplete. Excellent job, guys! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 07:03:56 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jeff Winchell Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:45:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame Jeff Winchell wrote: > I would think it's obvious that extremes are silly, but reading so many > messages about people worrying that one roll over in 13 years (or > similar statistics) is horrible and we should do more to prevent that, is > just as extreme. Glad you brought that up, because I've been making some estimates to come up with an approximate statistical model. Must have been those statistical mechanics courses in grad. school. Bear with me, it gets interesting. Consider a "typical" region and assume an average entry level of 150 competitors. That's probably a bit larger than "typical," but, as we'll see, that assumption tends to make autoxing look safer. Let's say the average course length is 3/4 mile, and competitors get four runs per event. That's 600 runs * 3/4 mile = 450 vehicle miles per event. I'll claim that that's well above the median vehicle miles/event, but we're trying to make autox look as safe as possible. If the above region has 10 events/year, then their competition events result in 4500 vehicle miles/year. And, if they have ONE incident every ten years, that's one per 45,000 vehicle miles. If the region is smaller or they have fewer runs at each event or the average course is shorter, the accidents/vehicle mile figure for an incident every ten years will be higher than our estimated 1/45,000. Now, I can say from my own experience that I've had far fewer accidents on public roads than one per 45,000 vehicle miles. In my case, it would be more like 1 per 450,000 vehicle miles, or an order of magnitude less. You were an actuary, you should he able to come up with accident statistics for comparison with the above model to tell us how long we should have to go between autox incidents in the above scenario to be comparably safe to normal driving. > If you want to live in a cacoon, fine. But don't force the rest of us into > one. No cocoon here. No blinders either. > If a site location is so precarious that one accident will cause the site > owner to cancel autocrossing there, then there are bigger problems > with that relationship that should have been worked on There was recently a Tour held at a site that had been lost to the host region for several years due to incidents at Solo II events. Don't give me lectures about site procurememnt and retention, I've been there and done that. We aren't entitled to use of people's pavement, we have to persuade them to let us use it. Accidents ALWAYS threaten that, whether you like it or not. >rather than > boring autocrossers to death with absurdly safe courses. A safe course does not have to be boring. Nor is a dangerous one necessarily fun. You're trying to correlate things that aren't. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 07:04:00 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jodi Fordahl Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:03:11 -0800 Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal Jodi Fordahl wrote: > Having > driven the car the last couple of weekends and lots of other ASP 911's I > would say that Curt's car has the best shot at doing well at Nationals than > any other I've driven, but I don't believe it can win. It puzzles me when he comes within .8 seconds of Shauna's combined two day times at Nationals and yet I hear someone say they believe the car "can't win." Is it really the case that neither car nor driver could possibly have had the potential for that extra .4 sec per day that would have been needed? Are we to believe that the car is perfectly prepped and the driver drove it perfectly? I accept that this is possible, and that Curt is one of the drivers who might pull this off, but is it probable? It IS clearly the case that Dwight Mitchell's 911 could win ASP; it did so in 1990 and 1994. And no, I don't know the course conditions or car prep levels or the mental state of his competitors those years, although I'm sure Scotty can provide all that information to prove that Dwight really shouldn't have won and the Lotus drivers are all subpar and none of the Lotuses was as fast as it could have been, etc. I'm not interested in anything but common sense here. It appears that there is a tremendous amount of superstitious fear of Lotuses that is entirely unjustified. As high performance cars go, they're cheap, and there are still plenty of Elans and Europas around in case anyone is feeling rained on because "they can't find one." Parts are available and generally cheaper than German car parts, and the cars are, for the most part, easy to work on. Why is there such hysteria about these cars? Jay "it's just a car" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:08:22 1999 From: washburn To: Scotty *BOB* White Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:05:35 -0600 Subject: Re: No insult here! Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > A datsun won because it was driven very well and that driver did what he > needed to do to win, which sometimes means just not hitting cones ;-) > Or showing up in the first place. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:12:35 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: bthatch@juno.com, autox@autox.team.net, bspvette@mailinglist.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:09:23 EST Subject: Re: BSP Testosterone Adam Popp kinda sounds like the Eric Linnhoff of BSP! What do ya-all think? Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:19:45 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:47:57 EST Subject: A-Stock, Dallas Tour Any A-Stock drivers out there going to Dallas who aren't shown on the entry list yet? M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:22:50 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:25:21 -0500 Subject: Re: G-Force 18" availability. >Do you really want the ABS to be functional during an autocross? I >thought the general consensus was that ABS was more of a problem then it >was good while autocrossing. sbw responds: NOT! Unless it's raining??? Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:25:47 1999 From: washburn To: Peter Wong Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:22:56 -0600 Subject: Re: A different perspective (Re: SP Proposal) Peter Wong wrote: > > > In my region, I'm actually not arguing to go to SS...the SS class winner > usually runs faster times than the ASP winner. All I'm saying is that not > allowing production cars to be in stock makes the barrier to winning very > high for a beginner who is being penalized for his choice of car. You are a blessed minority. I say blessed because you actually want to play with your expensive toy in a manner that was intended by the makers. They would at least smile upon you. :) FerarriLamboVectorAstonJagMaserWhatever owners do not typically feel that AX is worthy of their machines. Anyway, in most cases the statement about a beginner being penalized for the choice of car is not really true. Being a beginner is more of a penalty than any car could be. No insult intended, and you might be one of those people we all hate....the "natural", but for most of us mere mortals the car just is not a factor for awhile. I get your point, but I think you will find that there just are not a large enough group of you to make a case for change. Drive that Viper the best you can and keep learning. Most important...keep having fun! > -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:27:30 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: jemitchell@compuserve.com, Jeff@winchell.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:26:58 EST Subject: Re: Spins & Blame I can't say what I really want too for fear of taking more BS locally. My comments to this forum have caused a lot of problems. I will say however that I guess a lot of it depends on what you call an "Incident". Is every event that occurs short of an "Endo" a non incident? I think in a lot places it is. Already to much said Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:34:55 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:37:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Short list of cars with ABS that works My '89 944 Turbo has a very good Bosch ABS system. It saved my ass a couple of times in the rain at my first PCA club race. Long live ABS! But in the dry it is definitely a bit of a compromise. I have toned down my threshold braking so it doesn't actuate. Interestingly, it faults out of commission on FIA gators. Then the pedal gets longer and you seem to lose braking effectiveness. Some racers have a dash reset button that cycles power to the control unit instead of having to turn off the ignition. But I guess this would only pertain to the offroad autocrossers out there... So my vote would be for two cars: One with ABS for the wet and one without ABS for the dry. Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 08:45:51 1999 From: "Alex Quirk" To: "Craig Blome" , "Team. net" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:45:13 -0500 Subject: RE: Chevette Craig, You're Right! The Buick Aluminum 3.5L V8 that I learned to drive on in a '63 Olds F-85 Cutlass weighed only 320 lbs 'dressed' and a number of 4 cylinders exceed that...but NOT the Chevette...It was a very nice crossflow 1600cc(and earlier 1400cc) OHC 'cast iron block and head' with an aluminum cam carrier that weighed approx 280 lbs dressed...but NOT the gigantic nose weight increase that some suggested...only about 40lbs max....AND with the distributor front mounted as ALL Buick V8's have...it would be an ideal swap for the 'T' chassis....as it would keep the distributor cap away from the heater box / firewall tightness that plagues many 'T' car conversions......I think because of the bored out block dimensions of the 4.0L Rover V8 it may even be slightly lighter..and closer to the the 1600's weight.... Before anyone belittles the Chevette platform for its antique RWD nature...They should read the section about the Chevette HSR in this article! http://www.holte-cons.demon.co.uk/pond.htm Alex Quirk St Marys PA vquirk@penn.com '81 Chevy Chevette DSP '83 Pontiac 1000 DSP '89 Pontiac (YOU'VE got to be kidding!) Safari SW ESP "enjoy what you drive and DRIVE IT WELL!!!" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:45:51 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Blome Subject: RE: Chevette the Rover V8 weighs 320#...lighter than a lot of iron block four cylinders! CAB - --- Kevin Stevens wrote: > I'm not sure that having the car's center of mass and > polar moment located > at the crank is necessarily a good idea, though! > > KeS > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 09:09:49 1999 From: "Steve Ostrovitz" To: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:10:18 -0500 Subject: R&S Wheels number? Does anybody have it handy? Thanks Steve Ostrovitz From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 09:23:48 1999 From: Dave Kizerian To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:19:05 -0700 Subject: WANTED: Civic sway bars!!! Someone on this list had some civic parts-swaybars and tires/wheels for sale I'm interested if you've still got the stuff. e-mail me, or if anyone has his old post could you please forward to me. Thanks Dave Kizerian 97 honda Civic From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 09:47:02 1999 From: "Jim Howard" To: "mafba" , "F-body autox" , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:51:26 -0500 Subject: FS 1997 Z28 Moving on to a new Corvette. Must sell Camaro. 1997 Camaro Z28 34,000 miles Black, loaded with all options Leather, T-Tops, 12 CD, ASR, 6 Speed, Power seats, windows and mirrors SS Rims, New BFG T/A 275/40 ZR17, Bilstein Shocks Suncoast SS Ram air hood and intake Tuneable Borla Exhaust Excellent Condition, Always Garaged Only Red Line Synthetic Oil Asking $19,000 to start. Jim Howard 703-455-4766 howardje@erols.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 10:17:43 1999 From: Kii Lockhorn To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:22:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Short list of cars with ABS that works Per added a few cars to the list of good and bad ABS systems.... I'll add my two cents worth. I consider the ABS on my 1996 Camaro to be quite good. Now, there *are* occasionally problems with my brakes, but it doesn't have to do with the ABS... ;) I've had the opportunity to run a couple of other cars the past couple of events, and I would second Per's "nearly any BMW" in the "good" category -- after having driven a Z3 coupe and a 325i. The latest car I've driven I'd add to the "good" list, only because I was *all* over the brakes when I shouldn't have been, and the ABS did *not* screw me up. That car is a 1991 Corvette ZR1. The thing I like most about ABS? No flat spots! (unless the ABS goes out mysteriously for one run while your co-driver is in the car!) Karen Kraus 1996 Camaro Z28 1LE (FS34) -- "You never get away, you only get someplace else." -- Lovka's Dilemma "No matter what they're telling you, they're not telling you the whole truth." -- Todd's Principle "What people want to kill is not themselves, but the pain." -- Abrahms Spring http://www.erols.com/kiirenza From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 10:24:16 1999 From: bob1 To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:28:21 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal "Jay Mitchell" If "the average racer" can't read classifieds, it might be hard > for him/her to find an Elan. Otherwise, no sweat. > > Jay > Jay, You can't compare the availability of the 911's in the < $20k years to Elan and say they're similar. I've looked in the Portland, OR paper for a year and haven't seen one. Half the time the my paper doesn't even list any Lotus, and when they do they are always Elite. But there will be about a half dozen 1969-1980 911 listed for under $20k. Unfortunately, all of these need an engine swap to be "nat'l competitive" in ASP. To "properly prepare" one of these, I'd have to pay about $10k to get a 3.2 motor. Proposal should be to put 2.4 and under in BSP, 'cause a '70-78 911 with a 3.2 engine swap *is* about as rare as an Elan. These cheaper 911 are kind of like the 1.6 miata: a nice car but made into a regional only in SP unless you do an engine swap. Bob Larson From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 10:38:49 1999 From: Mark Belcik To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:46:11 -0600 Subject: 1991 Miata In my still ongoing quest to find a car, I came across a 1991 Miata. It only has 43000 miles, the interior is in good to very good shape, that paint is in great shape except for a small ding in the hood and a small touch-up spot on the trunk. It also comes with a hard top. I took it for a test drive and it drove really nice except that there was an intermitent stubbling through all RPM's. When the stumbling went away the car ran great. My questions for you all are what do you think could be the cause of the problem? Have any of you had a problem similar to this? What is a car like this worth? Any tips as for what to look for? Thanks for any info you can contribute! Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 11:04:01 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: "Alex Quirk" , "Craig Blome" , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:34:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Chevette > >Before anyone belittles the Chevette platform for its antique RWD >nature...They should read the section about the Chevette HSR in this >article! >http://www.holte-cons.demon.co.uk/pond.htm > Alex Quirk > St Marys PA vquirk@penn.com > '81 Chevy Chevette DSP Anyone remember C. Bud Henthorn? When I first got into this sport, he was running rather successfully in a Chevette back in the early to mid 80s. Of course, most folks who knew Bud back then also knew the "C" did not necessarly refer to a first name initial.... Phil O. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 11:27:59 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:27:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: ASP: Where are the TVR's? All the recent traffic about ASP reminded me of a question I had a while ago: When is the last time someone ran a TVR Tuscan V8 or Griffith in ASP? Why the relative absence...are they just too rare? It seems like a 1750 lb. car with a 289 hi-po Ford would be just the thing for autocrossing... 'Course the last time I saw a Griffith for sale the owner was asking $26K. Maybe that's why. Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 11:31:23 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: TeamZ3@aol.com Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:29:27 -0800 Subject: Re: A-Stock, Dallas Tour TeamZ3@aol.com wrote: > Any A-Stock drivers out there going to Dallas who aren't shown on the entry > list yet? I'll be there (but then you knew already knew that, but I thought I'd tell everyone else.) Sure hope there will be more than 4 of us ... Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 11:50:00 1999 From: Kat Bryce To: Mark Belcik , Autocross list Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:42:13 -0500 Subject: Re: 1991 Miata Check the miata.net site to make sure that this 91 does not have the weak crank problem. I believe there is a list of the VIN's that were effected. The missing sounds like the Plug wires. If they are OEM then they are crap and should be replaced. And if the engine is really clean there may just be water down in the spark plug wells. (Don't ask how I know ;-) Kat Mark Belcik wrote: > > In my still ongoing quest to find a car, I came across a 1991 Miata. It > only has 43000 miles, the interior is in good to very good shape, that > paint is in great shape except for a small ding in the hood and a small > touch-up spot on the trunk. It also comes with a hard top. I took it > for a test drive and it drove really nice except that there was an > intermitent stubbling through all RPM's. When the stumbling went away > the car ran great. My questions for you all are what do you think could > be the cause of the problem? Have any of you had a problem similar to > this? What is a car like this worth? Any tips as for what to look for? > Thanks for any info you can contribute! > > Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 12:07:34 1999 From: Alan Dahl To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 11:08:45 -0800 Subject: Re: 1991 Miata At 01:42 PM 4/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >Check the miata.net site to make sure that this 91 does not have the >weak crank problem. I believe there is a list of the VIN's that were >effected. IMHO this problem is over-blown. As long as the timing belt is changed by a dealer and not Joe-Bob's Big Hammer Auto Repair it should be fine. My '90 has 131,000 miles on it, has had the timing belt changed twice and is still running A-OK. Since the Miata in question as 43k on it I suspect that the belt has never been changed and he should have no worries. I agree WRT the spark plug wires causing the stumbing problem although I have also seen throttle position sensors and ECU problems (rare) cause this. If you do buy the car and want new wires I recommend the Racing Beat wires. I have 110k on my set and they still work great. Sure beats the 25-30k you get out of the OEM set. - Alan Dahl ---------- ___ ____ Alan Dahl | home: adahl@eskimo.com /_ / / / Federal Way, WA, USA | work: Alan.Dahl@PSS.boeing.com / / _/__/ ---------------- http://www.eskimo.com/~adahl ------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 12:43:06 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Bruce Wentzel" , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:53:37 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal I wrote exactly three letters, period. sbw -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Wentzel To: Scotty *BOB* White ; Jay Mitchell ; Adam Popp Cc: jhadler@rmi.net ; autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 6:00 PM Subject: Re: SP Proposal > >-----Original Message----- >From: Scotty *BOB* White >To: Jay Mitchell ; Adam Popp > >Cc: jhadler@rmi.net ; autox@autox.team.net > >Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 7:04 PM >Subject: Re: SP Proposal > > >>>and Scotty >>>definitely agrees, seeing as how he spent more than a year >ranting and >>>whining to get his car reclassed to BSP, >> >> Ranting and whining? I love this, but yer skills at picking a >fight are >>gettin pretty soft jay. Interesting that an overwhelming >*M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y* >>of the SPAG and SEB decided it was a good idea too, hmmmmm... >> >Actually it took WAY more than a year of ranting and whining >before your *M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y* were convinced to make the change. >Tell us how many times it got turned down. > >'DOT >Cost of racing in BSP saw a major escalation for me when this >move happened. > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 12:45:03 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:47:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame > Consider a "typical" region and assume an average entry level of 150 > competitors. That's probably a bit larger than "typical," but, as we'll > see, that assumption tends to make autoxing look safer. Let's say the > average course length is 3/4 mile, and competitors get four runs per > event. That's 600 runs * 3/4 mile = 450 vehicle miles per event. Since perception by the site owner seems to be the relevant statistic, then miles is the wrong metric. Time is a better one. > There was recently a Tour held at a site that had been lost to the host > region for several years due to incidents at Solo II events. Is there more information on this, or was this the sole significant factor? Is this situation representative of the typical site having problems? > We aren't entitled to use of people's pavement, we have to persuade > them to let us use it. Accidents ALWAYS threaten that, whether you like it > or not. ALways? Sites that also hold open track events, road racing or drag racing couldn't possibly have this problem since accidents are likely to happen at least once every few events. > A safe course does not have to be boring. The current SCCA rules of the fastest Stock or Street Prepared cars running in the mid 60's is an objective standard that is reasonable. Doom and gloom over a roll over once in 13 years is not. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 12:53:00 1999 From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net, Joshua Hadler , Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 14:53:36 -0500 Subject: Re: SP Proposal ,Taking back apology Hello Josh! This is Adam again, remember me. Hey remember when you said to me that you didn't say A/SP was the best class, but the quickest! Well I saw in this message that you said something like A/SP is the top of SP category and that sounds like you meant the best to me! There's a couple of other things, that I want to talk about to like.... > Joshua Hadler wrote: > > > > > > Find me an Elan for that kinda money that's Sp prepared? > > > > Find me -any- ASP car that's fully prepared for way under $20k. Lotus > > or not. I don't think it can be done. The point is, and I think we can > > all acknowledge this, ASP is an expensive class. The fact that the Lotus > > Elan is still such a good car for the class is a testament to the > > quality of the car and the skill of its drivers. > I would like to see you say that to Craig Carr, Charles Cave or Rex Carle. I'm sure they love there Lotus Elans, but it depends upon the drivers skills to win. > > > > > > If it is hard to get for the average racer wether it because of price or > > > pure numbers of cars still living the issue should remain the same no matter > > > the reason! > > > Then let's go out an ban all old and rare sports cars! Morgan? Gone. > TVR? Gone. 356 Carerra? Gone. Shelby Cobra? Gone. Mini Cooper? Gone. >Split window Vette? Gone. Or your '74 914? > > > Come on Scotty, we all play on the same track, and we all play in the same club. We've got to make a place for anyone who wants to play. You managed to find a place for yer big ol' Karvette to play. If you feel there are other "too slow" cars in ASP, then petition to bump 'em down > into BSP with all the rest of ya. ASP is the top of the SP category, Uh, oh! look what I found in the above sentence! Plus you spelled corvette wrong. > > there's got to be a place for all cars. If you would rather duke it out in BSP with Curt and Shauna, be my guest. Petition the SEB for a > reclassification, I'm sure Curt and Shauna wouldn't mind. ;-) I'm sure Daniel, Phil, Duke L. wouldn't mind either. > > I do feel that SP needs another class, but that's a topic for a > > different subject line... So Josh do you really want to play Hardball. Oh, and about the SP proposal. They won't move the Fiat X19's to C/SP because they moved the old Mazdas from D/SP to C/SP a year or so a go. Do you want to go to A/SP because those Honda CRX's and Mazdas are beaten you all the time. If you love A/SP so much why don't you get a car that's classed in A/SP and compete with them. And by the way Scotty, I'm not bias, I like watching A/SP and that classe's top guys battle it out. Some of them are fun to watch. This year Scotty, I will be autocrossing a '86 vette in B/SP and I'm pretty good myself. And if Daniel went to the nationals last year he would of have won. Josh saying that the B/SP corvettes have no chance in hell against the top cars in A/SP is bs. My brother beat a few of the top A/SP cars at the pro solos in '97 when B/SP and A/SP were in the same class together (ISP). I'm not saying Daniel is the fastest man in the world Mr. Hung, but he is pretty damn close when it comes down to autocrossing. And that's the bottom line, because Adam Popp said so!!! Oh and by the way, Happy Easter to all! > > -Josh2 > > > > -- > > Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR > > '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro > > > > jhadler@rmi.net > > http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 13:25:17 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Alan Dahl , autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:24:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: 1991 Miata IIRC this problem is aggravated by the fact that there are two separate crank pulley bolt torque specifications in the Mazda service manual, only one of which is correct. Couldn't tell you which manual or which spec...mine is a '96. Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX --- Alan Dahl wrote: > At 01:42 PM 4/3/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Check the miata.net site to make sure that this 91 > does not have the > >weak crank problem. I believe there is a list of > the VIN's that were > >effected. > > IMHO this problem is over-blown. As long as the > timing belt is changed by a > dealer and not Joe-Bob's Big Hammer Auto Repair it > should be fine. My '90 > has 131,000 miles on it, has had the timing belt > changed twice and is still > running A-OK. Since the Miata in question as 43k on > it I suspect that the > belt has never been changed and he should have no > worries. > > I agree WRT the spark plug wires causing the > stumbing problem although I > have also seen throttle position sensors and ECU > problems (rare) cause > this. If you do buy the car and want new wires I > recommend the Racing Beat > wires. I have 110k on my set and they still work > great. Sure beats the > 25-30k you get out of the OEM set. > > - Alan Dahl > ---------- > ___ ____ Alan Dahl | home: > adahl@eskimo.com > /_ / / / Federal Way, WA, USA | work: > Alan.Dahl@PSS.boeing.com > / / _/__/ ---------------- > http://www.eskimo.com/~adahl ------------- > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 13:47:46 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Team dot net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:47:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Z3 M Coupe vs. M Roadster What do these things weigh? Any performance differences between the two? How do they fare in SS (vs. RX-7tt)? -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 14:14:59 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jeff Winchell Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:13:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame Jeff Winchell wrote: > Since perception by the site owner seems to be the relevant statistic, > then miles is the wrong metric. Time is a better one. According to YOUR speculation, the statistical risk associated with autox is negligible compared to street driving. I came up with a model, now you're dodging the issue. How many accidents per vehicle mile are typical for street driving? > Is there more information on this, or was this the sole significant > factor? This was indeed the "sole significant factor." The site was unavailable for autox use for more than two years as a direct result of Solo II incidents. > Is this situation representative of the typical site having > problems? I've heard the concern about accidents expressed often enough by site ownership to know that it is usually a major issue. > Sites that also hold open track events, road racing or drag racing > couldn't possibly have this problem since accidents are likely to > happen at least once every few events. That's not even a good attempt to dodge the issue. The vast majority of Solo II events are held in stadium or high school parking lots or on airport facilities. The owners of these sites are distinctly concerned with safety issues, as you would be in their position. > The current SCCA rules of the fastest Stock or Street Prepared cars > running in the mid 60's is an objective standard that is reasonable. As is the expectation that a course design allow sufficient runoff space so as to allow a spin without the car striking solid objects. > Doom and gloom over a roll over once in 13 years is not. Based on my experience, rollovers occur a bit more often than that. To some extent, driver awareness of the capacity of certain cars to roll is the only defensive measure that is effective in preventing them. Course design can be a factor, but no course design can be 100% effective in preventing a rollover. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 14:15:00 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: bob1 Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 15:57:50 -0800 Subject: Re: SP Proposal bob1 wrote: > Jay, You can't compare the availability of the 911's in the < $20k years to Elan and say > they're similar. I didn't. I DID say you can find one if you want one, and without much difficulty. They are readily available. > I've looked in the Portland, OR paper for a year and haven't seen one. I also didn't say you could read only your local classifieds and find one. However, a serious autoxer can easily find an Elan, if that's what (s)he wants. Ask Byron or Matt about finding their desired AS 944 or 968. It's not at all uncommon to have to go out of town or out of state to acquire just what you're looking for. Lotuses are no different. >But there will be about a half dozen 1969-1980 911 listed for > under $20k. Unfortunately, all of these need an engine swap to be "nat'l competitive" > in ASP. They'll need quite a bit in addition to the engine swap to be competitive in ASP. But the car's potential is there regardless, and SP does allow update/backdate. It is unfortunate that it is so expensive to make a 911 competitive in ASP, but it is possible nonetheless. Competitive potential is the definitive quality here. > To "properly prepare" one of these, I'd have to pay about $10k to get a 3.2 motor. > Proposal should be to put 2.4 and under in BSP, 'cause a '70-78 911 with a 3.2 engine > swap *is* about as rare as an Elan. That's the nature of SP. There are a number of car models which are only competitive if you take maximum advantage of update/backdate, and the resulting combination is something that was never available in that form. That is specifically why the SP rules don't segregate model years. > These cheaper 911 are kind of like the 1.6 miata: > a nice car but made into a regional only in SP unless you do an engine swap. Well, 'most any stock car will only be competitive in SP if you do certain modifications. And all Miatas are on the same line in CSP. Some mods are more expensive than others, but again, that's the nature of SP. Owning a Porsche is expensive. Prepping and campaigning a Porsche in serious competition is more expensive. I would not consider that a justification for parsing different versions of what is essentially the same car into different SP classes. There are all sorts of other cars about which you could make exactly the same argument. Additionally, the most competitive SP 911s now in existence would likely be rendered illegal by what you propose. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 15:36:12 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:39:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame > According to YOUR speculation, the statistical risk associated with > autox is negligible compared to street driving. I came up with a model, > now you're dodging the issue. How many accidents per vehicle mile are > typical for street driving? I'm not dodging the issue. I'll repeat this again ...miles is the wrong unit of measure for this. > > Is there more information on this, or was this the sole significant > > factor? > > This was indeed the "sole significant factor." The site was unavailable > for autox use for more than two years as a direct result of Solo II > incidents. What site was this? > > Is this situation representative of the typical site having > > problems? > > I've heard the concern about accidents expressed often enough by site > ownership to know that it is usually a major issue. What is the sample size? > > Sites that also hold open track events, road racing or drag racing > > couldn't possibly have this problem since accidents are likely to > > happen at least once every few events. > > That's not even a good attempt to dodge the issue. The vast majority of > Solo II events are held in stadium or high school parking lots or on > airport facilities. Once again, I'm not dodging the issue. None of the events in my region of the country are held in a stadium or a high school parking lot. Two of the venues in this region are airports, and both also hold Solo I events. > > The current SCCA rules of the fastest Stock or Street Prepared cars > > running in the mid 60's is an objective standard that is reasonable. > > As is the expectation that a course design allow sufficient runoff space > so as to allow a spin without the car striking solid objects. > > > Doom and gloom over a roll over once in 13 years is not. > > Based on my experience, rollovers occur a bit more often than that. That would still fall under a small frequency, IMO, and therefore not something to be worry about changes to course design procedures as this thread has been indicating. > some extent, driver awareness of the capacity of certain cars to roll is > the only defensive measure that is effective in preventing them. Course > design can be a factor, but no course design can be 100% effective in > preventing a rollover. I agree, so course design doesn't seem to be an overall problem needing to be corrected as this thread indicated. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 15:49:07 1999 From: LARRY97ACR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:48:28 EST Subject: Ft Worth Tour I have a room reserved at the Hampton Inn and Suites and am looking to see if anyone wants to share it. It is reserved for Friday and Saturday nights. I need to save some money for food and gas. Rgds Larry M 97 Neon ACR #20 st From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 16:01:08 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: raft321@fuse.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:01:07 -0700 Subject: Re: SP Proposal ,Taking back apology Adam Popp wrote: > > Hello Josh! This is Adam again, remember me. Hey remember when you said > to me that you didn't say A/SP was the best class, but the quickest! > Well I saw in this message that you said something like A/SP is the top > of SP category and that sounds like you meant the best to me! There's a > couple of other things, that I want to talk about to like.... Geez Adam, a little testy today are we? ASP has a significantly higher index than BSP, that's all. I never implied that ASP is better than BSP, just capapble of turning quicker times. What do you want me to say next? That H-Stock is the best class? Lighten up friend, I'm simply pointing out that while BSP is a great class, with lots of talented drivers, ASP is considered the quickest/top of the SP category. > > > Find me -any- ASP car that's fully prepared for way under $20k. Lotus > > > or not. I don't think it can be done. The point is, and I think we can > > > all acknowledge this, ASP is an expensive class. The fact that the Lotus > > > Elan is still such a good car for the class is a testament to the > > > quality of the car and the skill of its drivers. > > > I would like to see you say that to Craig Carr, Charles Cave or Rex > Carle. I'm sure they love there Lotus Elans, but it depends upon the > drivers skills to win. And your point is?... Of course it takes a driver to win. I never implied otherwise. Scotty's the one who's saying that Lotus drivers aren't up to the snuff of Curt or Shauna. Is that right scotty? I'd really hate to misquote you here. > > > > If it is hard to get for the average racer wether it because of price or > > > > pure numbers of cars still living the issue should remain the same no matter > > > > the reason! > > > > > Then let's go out an ban all old and rare sports cars! Morgan? Gone. > > TVR? Gone. 356 Carerra? Gone. Shelby Cobra? Gone. Mini Cooper? Gone. > >Split window Vette? Gone. > > Or your '74 914? Not exactly, a 914 is pretty easy to come by. > > > Come on Scotty, we all play on the same track, and we all play in the same club. We've got to make a place for anyone who wants to play. You managed to find a place for yer big ol' Karvette to play. If you feel there are other "too slow" cars in ASP, then petition to bump 'em down into BSP with all the rest of ya. ASP is the top of the SP category, > > Uh, oh! look what I found in the above sentence! Plus you spelled > corvette wrong. Oh wow! You caught me. But ya better blame Scotty, he's been spellin' that way for ages. > > > I do feel that SP needs another class, but that's a topic for a > > > different subject line... > > So Josh do you really want to play Hardball. Oh, and about the SP > proposal. They won't move the Fiat X19's to C/SP because they moved the > old Mazdas from D/SP to C/SP a year or so a go. Do you want to go to > A/SP because those Honda CRX's and Mazdas are beaten you all the time. > If you love A/SP so much why don't you get a car that's classed in A/SP > and compete with them. What the hell are you talking about? So what if the mazdas and hondas beat me! Who give's a flip! I'll be the first to admit that my 914 is way underprepared for the class, and I make no pretentions whatsoever of being a better driver than Elam, Kuhns, Norgaard or the rest of the CSP front runners. Maybe someday, but that day is not now. Give it a rest. And just becasue I care to get involved in a discussion that involves a class or classes that I currently am not competing in, doesn't mean that I want to drive in that class. Ease up pal. > And by the way Scotty, I'm not bias, I like watching A/SP and > that classe's top guys battle it out. Some of them are fun to watch. My point exactly. > This year Scotty, I will be autocrossing a '86 vette in B/SP and I'm > pretty good myself. And if Daniel went to the nationals last year he > would of have won. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. We'll never know. > Josh saying that the B/SP corvettes have no chance in > hell against the top cars in A/SP is bs. My brother beat a few of the > top A/SP cars at the pro solos in '97 when B/SP and A/SP were in the > same class together (ISP). Adam, we all know that ProSolo is alot different than Solo2. The launch counts for quite a bit, and I have no doubt that a big block Vette can out launch a flyweight Lotus Elan. Does that mean that Danny is any better or worse of a driver? No. It simply means that may have been driving a better car for that form of competition. My 914 is ideally suited for launching off a ProSolo start. I have out launched CSP M3's a number of times. But then they grab 2nd gear and leave my behind like I was stuck in reverse. Does that mean that my car is better or worse? I dunno, my who cares? I like my car, and if it weren't going to be down a season for a new engine, I'd be driving it at every event from here to Topeka. But alas, I'm not. I'll still drive something though, I love autox, and -all- the cars that are in it. > I'm not saying Daniel is the fastest man in > the world Mr. Hung, but he is pretty damn close when it comes down to > autocrossing. And that's the bottom line, because Adam Popp said so!!! Oh! Well that's different! :-) -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 16:16:41 1999 From: RaceSVO@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:16:11 EST Subject: Mustang SVO Has anyone seen any mention of reclassing the Mustang SVO in FastTrack? I wrote a letter late last year and am curious if it even got to see the light of day or was it a quick file job (round file that is). Still hoping for a reclass................. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 16:44:00 1999 From: LTImbeau@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:43:25 EST Subject: Re: Scotty's spell checker In a message dated 4/3/99 3:04:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, jhadler@rmi.net writes: << But ya better blame Scotty, he's been spellin' that way for ages. >> Y'all be nice to Scotty, remember he grew up having to spell and pronounce Puyallup! Larry Imbeau From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 16:49:08 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: cblome@yahoo.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:30:27 EST Subject: Re: ASP: Where are the TVR's? I can sell you a 2500M TVR $5000.00 (Some assembly required) They are wicked cars. But 1750lbs, Who said you could get one to that weight??????? I'm not sure thats realistic at all. Mike B. TLS#1 1986 March-Apache Sports 2000 1979 Tiga Formula Ford 1973 TVR 2500M 1973 VW Thing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 17:17:11 1999 From: JTHOR11@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:16:55 EST Subject: Different Street Touring idea... Greetings.. I have been pondering the current Street Touring rules and I have thought about a slightly different criteria for the class trying to make it as simple as possible. Any comments or constructive criticism would be appreciated. Eligible cars would be any car in these Stock classes. H, G, E, D, (and possibly C). Max wheel and tire width of 7" and 225. Treadwear of 140 or greater. All of the other criteria for the current Street Touring would be the same. ie. CARB legal bolt on engine mods... catalytic converters must be retained... etc... The one thing I have been toying with is an exclusion of turbo or AWD vehicles in the class but letting them run in more of a Street Mod class where engine swaps and such would be allowed. Thanks in advance for any input. Whoomah!! Jan Gerber Omaha, NE From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 17:47:27 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: JTHOR11@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:47:43 -0600 (EST) Subject: Re: Different Street Touring idea... On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 JTHOR11@aol.com wrote: > Eligible cars would be any car in these Stock classes. H, G, E, D, (and > possibly C). Max wheel and tire width of 7" and 225. > Treadwear of 140 or greater. > All of the other criteria for the current Street Touring would be the same. > ie. CARB legal bolt on engine mods... catalytic converters must be > retained... etc... > > The one thing I have been toying with is an exclusion of turbo or AWD > vehicles in the class but letting them run in more of a Street Mod class > where engine swaps and such would be allowed. Cool, Jan, that means I can bolt up a CARB-legal Vortech blower on my GS Mustang and still be legal? I'm all for it! ;-) Dale --- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -Mitch Ratliffe, Technology Review April, 1992 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 17:57:08 1999 From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net, jhadler@rmi.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:57:45 -0500 Subject: Battle stopped for now Alright Josh, our battle of discussions of who is the top class between A/SP, BSP has ended. There was no winner because the decision came out to a draw. No, Don King did not pay me off! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 18:01:30 1999 From: Seadentx@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:01:08 EST Subject: Hoosier Question Just bought a set of Hoosier's. They are labeled A3S03. My previous set from last year were labeled A3S02. What's the difference between 3S03 and 3S02's??? Thanks Jim H From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 19:06:39 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Kevin Stevens" , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:11:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Chevette >I'm not sure that having the car's center of mass and polar moment located >at the crank is necessarily a good idea, though! The Buick/Rover V8 is lighter than a lot of 4-cyl engines. >> A few years ago a Guy in UK fit a a Rover V8 (old Buick Alum block) into a >> British Chevette. Claimed that a V8 was nothing else than a 4 cyl with 4 >> extra cyl added. Motor mounts almost identical etc was a extremely Rad >> looking machine Supposedly wheels spun in 2nd gear all the way up >> an uphill >> straight, in the wet. Guy thought clutch was slipping. Article about it in >> Car & Car Conversions about 4 years ago >> >> Pete Gulliver From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 19:08:07 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Seadentx@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:07:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Hoosier Question On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 Seadentx@aol.com wrote: > Just bought a set of Hoosier's. They are labeled A3S03. My previous set from > last year were labeled A3S02. > > What's the difference between 3S03 and 3S02's??? You'll be faster and they will last longer! :-) -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 19:12:59 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:11:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: 1G Honda CRX 1500 engines Any CRX pilots out there know if the 1500 carbureted and EFI long blocks are interchangeable? I noticed looking at a spec sheet that the carb motor has half a point more compression, which might be useful in a CSP motor. TIA, Craig Blome TSSCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 19:39:27 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:35:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Different Street Touring idea... -----Original Message----- From: JTHOR11@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 7:01 PM Subject: Different Street Touring idea... >Eligible cars would be any car in these Stock classes. H, G, E, D, (and >possibly C). Max wheel and tire width of 7" and 225. >Treadwear of 140 or greater. >All of the other criteria for the current Street Touring would be the same. >ie. CARB legal bolt on engine mods... catalytic converters must be >retained... etc... Other than allowing in some of the older sports cars (MGBs, Spridgets, TRs, Datsun roadsters) and larger engined sedans (BMWs in particular), and sneaking in wheel and tire size restrictions, how does this substantially change things? More importantly, how does this make things better? Just curious about the point. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 19:48:53 1999 From: "Darren P. Madams" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 18:46:42 -0800 Subject: Collected team.net comments, questions & answers (long) Well, I'm on digest mode and getting 2 of those a day, so here's a bunch of words for you to ignore on the various subjects and some legit questions I'd like answered: Course too fast, San Diego specifically: As long as the braking point was safe [and preferably followed by a left instead of a right] I don't have a problem clipping 70mph [the intended limit however it's written in the rules] as long as somebody gave it some careful consideration. At a national level event I have no doubt this happened, both by the multiple event chairs & course designers as well as several inspections by high level safety stewards as well as the national SCCA staff. If it was in fact dangerous, I'm sure someone would have noticed it. In general, the game we came to play is to not hold sweepers at 75 mph -- that's called road racing. Let's try to keep those speeds down. SP Reclassifications: I only briefly looked at the proposal many months ago and it didn't seem different enough to me. Seems the area I would like to see improved is the slower CSP cars and the faster DSP cars. Let's bump down the long wheel base Civics, Integras, Saturns, etc. etc. and bump up the faster DSP cars like the X1/9 and the Capri's and the fast VWs (which I don't know anything about) and leave CSP for the small light nimble cars like the CRXs, Miatas and RXs while leaving DSP for the old MGs, Yugo's and assorted cheap HSesque cars and have the intermediate class for the poopular street cars that we're trying to attract with Street Touring. While we're at it, why not use this time to eliminate Street Prepared as we know it and start over with really Street Prepared cars (similar to street touring)? 18" tire allowing 17"s? Anyone have an objection to this? Does anyone really think a new Vette or Porsche will be considerably better with 17"s. I don't know, and if so then fine... if not, let's let 'em play as Scotty says (sez). I'm all for bringing out enthusist cars (like the type r) SoloVee proposal: I'd vote for it, anything to bring out new cars! I do think Mark Sirota has a point though... not a nice one, but a point. Questions: New Pro classes: any comments from anyone about how the arrangement is? Anyone feel there's a mismatch in the mixed classes? Pro Appearance Package: I still haven't seen a good clear whole car shot of the package, anyone got a good site with pix? Karts: Just read the fast-track about the class essentially being on probation for participation at nationals... how many other kart drivers are there out there? What events are you planning on attending? Perhaps we can coordinate a big showing at nationals, please email me! DSP: I heard mentioned today that there are plenty of FWD cars to watch out for in DSP... the only ones that sprung to mind are the VWs (which as I said earlier I know nothing about) and the Omni (which I've never seen run, but I've heard is good on paper). Anyone have any insight on this hidden beast? 200+ HP CSP Neon: Whatever became of it? Has anyone seen it run? Was it all hype or is this the next CSP car? Speaking of Neon's, my brother drove the new 2000 model (4 door, automatic only currently) and doesn't see how they're ever gonna be competetive with the old ones -- is this the end of Chrysler supporting autocross? Or will the new ACR be radically different? Or will SCCA create a new class for them? Civic setup: I'm still looking for any information about the new Civics and in particular, the new Si coupe. My buddy just got his on Monday and I think you ES guys better get worried. That's all for now... feel free to reply privately if you think the list will be bored... otherwise talk amongst yourselves, I'll see it a day later :) --Darren "only a tenth behind my co-driver today" Madams From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 19:59:29 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autocross list" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:51:26 -0800 Subject: Neon brake bleeding Hey all. I installed the SpeedBleeders that I bought from Bruce Wentzel at Green Dot Racing in my Neon today. GREAT STUFF Bruce!!!! All went well and the brakes feel much better than before. I used STP DOT 3 (silver label) super heavy duty stuff, cuz that's all that was available when I was shopping today. Dry boiling point over 500 degrees and wet boiling point over 284 degrees and best of all, $4 for 32 oz which was more than enough to flush the entire system with fluid to spare. It was either the STP stuff, Castrol LMA or one of many generic types of fluid that didn't look too awe inspiring. Only one problem reared it's ugly head and that was in the form of corrosion on the factory bleed screws that I removed from the passenger side of the car. The front passenger side bleed screw had slight surface corrosion on the entire surface of the screw that is exposed to the in-line fluid and the rear passenger screw was almost as bad. Curiously though the drivers side bleed screws didn't show the slightest sign of this same corrosion. Since the Neons have a diagonally split brake proportioning circuit (RF & LR on one circuit and LF & RR on the other circuit) this is even more curious. The brake system was as the factory assembled it and has never been touched before today. Apparently the factory allowed some moisture to get into the system and start the corrosion which over the course of 13,000 miles has reduced it's effective braking ability. Oh well, hopefully the fresh fluid and the continued maintenance of the system will prevent this type of corrosion from becoming a problem in the future. Oh yeah, best of all the pedal is once again very firm and the brakes are at least as good as the day I first picked up the car, if not better!!! See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 20:22:29 1999 From: Kevin Daigle To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 21:21:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Collected team.net comments, questions & answers (long) At 06:46 PM 4/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >SP Reclassifications: I only briefly looked at the proposal many months >ago and it didn't seem different enough to me. Seems the area I would >like to see improved is the slower CSP cars and the faster DSP cars. >Let's bump down the long wheel base Civics, Integras, Saturns, etc. etc. >and bump up the faster DSP cars like the X1/9 and the Capri's and the >fast VWs (which I don't know anything about) and leave CSP for the small >light nimble cars like the CRXs, Miatas and RXs while leaving DSP for >the old MGs, Yugo's and assorted cheap HSesque cars and have the >intermediate class for the poopular street cars that we're trying to >attract with Street Touring. While we're at it, why not use this time >to eliminate Street Prepared as we know it and start over with really >Street Prepared cars (similar to street touring)? I still believe the Neon (SOHC & DOHC) belong in DSP rather than CSP. They just weigh way too much for CSP. >200+ HP CSP Neon: Whatever became of it? Has anyone seen it run? Was >it all hype or is this the next CSP car? It is mine, which is still not complete. Taking longer than expected as I have to get companies to make the parts for me. Such as my 13x9 Kaiser Wheels. TEC-II went onto car 2 weeks ago. I still have no source for a real LSD. I thought Mopar was going to come thru, but when the SCCA killed the LSD from the SSB/SSC Neons Mopar killed making one. As of today car is 80% complete and it will be at the Dallas National Tour event next week. I do not think it will ever be the CSP car to beat when you have CRX's with 160hp that only weigh in at 1,600lbs. You can't get a Neon below 2,200lbs and if I had 220hp to put me on par with the CRX's I am still throwing a LOT more weight around in the turns. Kevin Daigle 1997 Cherokee Country & 1995 Neon ACR #23 CSP with TEC-II Power From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 20:24:28 1999 From: ISMDSL77@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:23:39 EST Subject: ProSolo Expo in Muskogee, OK The NEOKLA Region SCCA and the SCCA Rally/Solo Dept. National office will hold a ProSolo Expo April 24 and 25 in Muskogee, OK. Great Oklahoma springtime weather. FANTASTIC, SMOOTH CONCRETE. Just 35 miles east of Tulsa. This will be a "real" ProSolo (SCCA timing truck, starting lights, challenge competitions, etc.) and will count as a qualifier for the ProSolo Finale. However, the event is a non-points event, It is intended to gauge ProSolo interest in the Midwest and and south central states. Sufficient attendance should ensure this event will be included in the ProSeries in 2000. NationalSeries classes will be included, as well as a Ladies' Challenge and "open" challenge. Entry Fee: $45 members $50 non-members Registration: SCCA Rally/Solo Department 303/779-6622 (Download ProSolo entry form from www.scca.org) Additional Information: John M. Joyce 918/584-4139 john.joyce@firstdatacorp.com www.neokla-scca.org From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 20:49:56 1999 From: allen t skillicorn To: cblome@yahoo.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:48:45 EST Subject: Re: 1G Honda CRX 1500 engines >Any CRX pilots out there know if the 1500 carbureted >and EFI long blocks are interchangeable? I noticed >looking at a spec sheet that the carb motor has half a >point more compression, which might be useful in a CSP >motor. > I believe the heads are different, and yes the carbed ones have higher compression. In stock form the si injected ones have a much fatter, board torque band. Maybe with a good carb of aftermarket fi the non-si motor could be the hot setup????? ...or one could just use 1300 pistons for a bunch more compression, but thats a little questionable in csp! ALLEN From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 00:57:31 1999 From: Mark Belcik To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 03:05:09 -0600 Subject: Re: 1991 Miata Well, I went back to the dealer today and talked with my salesman. He had the head mechanic look at it and was going to put it on the computer, but being a chevy dealer they appearently didn't have the correct hookup. Anyway, the mechanic changed the plug wires and the plugs but the problem didn't go away. It did subside once the car got really warmed up. Odd? The mechanic guessed that it needed a valve adjustment. Does this sound right to anyone? Anyway, the dealer wanted 7800 for it with the hardtop. Well, thanks to those of you who replied, any other info would be interesting, but it looks like I might step away from this one and go with a nice V6 Camaro I saw there instead. I'm not sure that I want to take the risk with this one. Am I making a wise decision? Thanks again, Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 06:50:38 1999 From: Brian Priebe To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 08:47:39 -0400 Subject: RX-7 vs M cars, opinion I do not think either the M coupe or M roadster can hang with the Rx-7s. John Thomas, Jean Kinser, and myself had an opportunity to drive a M roadster. I got to drive it twice, once on Yoks and then on G-Force tire. It was real hairy on the yoks and I thought the G-Forces might help, which they did but not as much as I expected. John Thomas spun it hard on the G-Forces. He was left confused at what happened. He described alot of what I have heard from people driving these cars. It was there one second and then the rear was gone. I got it crossed up good a couple of times. Jean did not even really slide the car, but I think she was puckered up from watching John and I and listening to us discuss what we thought of the car. I think both John and I thought the power was great but were not to thrilled with the handling. The rear suspension in the M cars makes the rear end twichy. Maybe set-up can help this, but it will not completely take it away. At least in an Rx-7 you know when the rear is going to step out. --Brian Priebe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 06:57:56 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: Hottvr@AOL.COM Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:05:37 -0400 Subject: Re: BSP Testosterone Well, Adam, y'all want to respond to this? Actually, I'd like to hear about your preparations on that 86 Coupe. Where did you find the LT4 motor and what are you doing to the car? Or, is that all top-secret information? Ben Thatcher 86 Coupe "Stealth" On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:09:23 EST Hottvr@aol.com writes: >Adam Popp kinda sounds like the Eric Linnhoff of BSP! What do ya-all >think? > >Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 07:55:37 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:30:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Neon brake bleeding Thanks for the commercial message Eric :) BTW, your mention of corrosion prompts me to say that I _highly_ recommend getting some rubber or plastic caps to put on your bleeder screws. Many new cars now come with these. They keep junk from getting down into the bleeder's vent hole and causing not so nice stuff to happen (except in California). This applies to all bleeders, but IMHO especially to Speedbleeders. Bruce Wentzel Green Dot Racing, Inc. Road Race & Solo II rentals BSP 71 Corvette LS6 - the original Greendot; RX-7's; 83 ITA, 84 ITS, 86 ITS One person brake bleeding with Speed Bleeders, racer price $5.20 ea. Ask me about your opportunity to be a part of the fastest growing company in the fastest growing industry in the world!! -----Original Message----- From: Eric Linnhoff To: autocross list Cc: neon list Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 11:07 PM Subject: Neon brake bleeding >Hey all. > >I installed the SpeedBleeders that I bought from Bruce Wentzel at Green Dot >Racing in my Neon today. > >GREAT STUFF Bruce!!!! > >All went well and the brakes feel much better than before. I used STP DOT 3 >(silver label) super heavy duty stuff, cuz that's all that was available >when I was shopping today. Dry boiling point over 500 degrees and wet >boiling point over 284 degrees and best of all, $4 for 32 oz which was more >than enough to flush the entire system with fluid to spare. It was either >the STP stuff, Castrol LMA or one of many generic types of fluid that didn't >look too awe inspiring. > >Only one problem reared it's ugly head and that was in the form of corrosion >on the factory bleed screws that I removed from the passenger side of the >car. The front passenger side bleed screw had slight surface corrosion on >the entire surface of the screw that is exposed to the in-line fluid and the >rear passenger screw was almost as bad. Curiously though the drivers side >bleed screws didn't show the slightest sign of this same corrosion. Since >the Neons have a diagonally split brake proportioning circuit (RF & LR on >one circuit and LF & RR on the other circuit) this is even more curious. > >The brake system was as the factory assembled it and has never been touched >before today. Apparently the factory allowed some moisture to get into the >system and start the corrosion which over the course of 13,000 miles has >reduced it's effective braking ability. > >Oh well, hopefully the fresh fluid and the continued maintenance of the >system will prevent this type of corrosion from becoming a problem in the >future. > >Oh yeah, best of all the pedal is once again very firm and the brakes are at >least as good as the day I first picked up the car, if not better!!! > >See you on course. > >Eric Linnhoff in KC >#69DS TLS #13 >'98 Neon R/T > > >You jump in front of my car When you know all the time >That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive >You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain >You say you just want me to take you for a drive >---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >"Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 08:46:29 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:08:36 EDT Subject: Question on DSMs in ProSolo Forgive me for not listening a while back but I have just a simple question with, I think, a not so simple answer: What reason was given for not allowing the Talon/Eclipse crowd in the Pro Series? Just curious as to why it is not in the P6 class along with the other top GS cars. Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX http://sac.uky.edu/~drledf0 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 08:50:28 1999 From: Kevin Wenzel To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Top class? DSP! ASP and BSP can't hold a candle to the *real* top SP class - DSP! Just look at the plot - you have the Evil Overlords(tm) who, of course, ruled by Fiat after the prescriptive removal of RX from the class. Then you have the People's Revolution equipped with the People's Wagen fighting for respectability (not driving on Revolutions - too expensive for rebels, after all). In the middle of all of it there are Capricious newcomers, and one lone player Jinxed by a tiny engine. Where else can you find that story line? Kevin Y. Wenzel kwenzel@privateI.com Director of Network Operations, privateI, LLC http://www.privateI.com/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 10:00:47 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" , jemitchell@compuserve.com Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 12:02:59 -0400 Subject: "It's just a car" - Colin is rolling over in his grave <<>> Common sense? We don't gotta show you no stinking common sense! And just a car??? Shame on you! Lotus as a marque has a racing heritage that is untouched by any company of it's size. I thought they could do no wrong until they created that FWD 'Elan'. But then again Porsche is building an SUV so anything is possible. You can argue that Loti are unsafe on the highway due to insufficient crash protection or their propensity to get squashed under big heavy things, but you cannot successfully argue the RWD Elan and Europa are not the dominant car in ASP over time. I'll always remember Dwight Mitchell crying in frustration at the '89 Solo II Nationals when he realized he could not win over Ron Babb. Don't get me wrong. The Loti have every right - nay obligation - to show up in parking lots and spank our collective asses. But why oh why do they have to be in my class??? Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 10:39:52 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Paul Foster Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:39:40 -0700 Subject: Re: "It's just a car" - Colin is rolling over in his grave Paul Foster wrote: > And just a car??? Shame on you! Lotus as a marque has a racing heritage > that is untouched by any company of it's size. Hey, we're talking about little fiberglass road cars, not F1 rides. ;<) Seriously, I believe that no manufacturer has ever had as many rules changed to prevent them from winning as Lotus did. Although Audi came close in Trans-Am. Anti-Lotus whining isn't limited to Solo II competitors. The F1 crowd did their share. > I thought they could do > no wrong until they created that FWD 'Elan'. That was after Colin's death and while Lotus was owned by (shudder) GM. > But then again Porsche is > building an SUV so anything is possible. Worse yet, Porsche got Japanese automotive consultants to help them make their manufacturing processes more efficient. > You can argue that Loti are unsafe on the highway Only if you hit something. =8<0 >but you cannot successfully argue the RWD Elan and Europa are > not the dominant car in ASP over time. I can argue that. When I look at the last ten years of Nationals winners in the rules, here's the tally: Lotus: 6 Mazda: 2 Porsche: 2 Over the last five years, the tally is: Lotus: 2 Mazda: 2 Porsche: 1 Neither of the above lists is evidence of class dominance. Miatas in BS or Neons in DS are much closer to dominating their respective classes, yet I would claim that neither of those cars should be reclassed. Neither should the Elan or Europa. Maybe the Elan is the best ASP car to have. It is not, however, so much better than the other two cars that they cannot win. And it's been more than 10 years since a Europa won. The results speak for themselves. > I'll always remember Dwight > Mitchell crying in frustration at the '89 Solo II Nationals when he > realized he could not win over Ron Babb. Yet, according to somebody's earlier post, Dwight's car didn't have the optimal 3.2L motor. So, even if Dwight couldn't win in his car at that event, it doesn't mean his car didn't have the potential to do so when developed to the limit of the rules. > Don't get me wrong. The Loti have every right - nay obligation - to show > up in parking lots and spank our collective asses. Well, I wish it were that easy. I've still got a ways to go in mine. Jay "OK, it's a pretty good car and really fun, too" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 12:23:38 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Bruce Wentzel Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Neon brake bleeding On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Bruce Wentzel wrote: > BTW, your mention of corrosion prompts me to say that I _highly_ > recommend getting some rubber or plastic caps to put on your > bleeder screws. Many new cars now come with these. They keep Any ideas which maker has nice and affordable caps? Porsches have them, but I'm afraid to ask the price. Maybe I'll check the home depot. Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 12:43:28 1999 From: Loren Williams To: autox-digest Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:38:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Kansas City Mail Mike B said: > If any of you guys are throwing out mail about the Kansas City Region please > include me! But Mike, we've been throwing out your mail for over a year already! -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 12:43:31 1999 From: Loren Williams To: autox-digest Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:55:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) Jay Mitchell said: > Glad you brought that up, because I've been making some estimates to > come up with an approximate statistical model. Must have been those > statistical mechanics courses in grad. school. Bear with me, it gets > interesting. > If the above region has 10 events/year, then their competition events > result in 4500 vehicle miles/year. And, if they have ONE incident every > ten years, that's one per 45,000 vehicle miles. > Now, I can say from my own experience that I've had far fewer accidents > on public roads than one per 45,000 vehicle miles. In my case, it would > be more like 1 per 450,000 vehicle miles, or an order of magnitude less. Wrong comparison, Jay. If you're going to compare YOUR specific case to autocrossing, you should only include the autox miles that YOU drove in the same period. The proper comparison to ALL the autox miles driven in your area would be accidents per mile driven in your community... significantly more than 450,000 miles/10 years, I'm sure. (and I expect the accidents per mile ratio would be far greater as well) -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 13:17:30 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Loren Williams Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 14:16:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) Loren Williams wrote: > Wrong comparison, Jay. If you're going to compare YOUR specific case to > autocrossing, you should only include the autox miles that YOU drove in > the same period. Well, I was trying to put autoxing in the BEST light, not the worst. Given that I have had an autox incident myself, and that I probably have driven fewer than 3,000 total miles in autox competition, my personal autox experience is, statistically speaking, pretty dismal. > The proper comparison to ALL the autox miles driven in > your area would be accidents per mile driven in your community... > significantly more than 450,000 miles/10 years, I'm sure. (and I expect > the accidents per mile ratio would be far greater as well) What I was looking for from Jeff, that he has so far refused to provide, is an approximate accident/100k vehicle mile figure for the general public. That statistic is available, and as a former actuary, he should know where to find it. Raw time is NOT the correct metric. Using raw time would imply that a small region that has a Solo II incident every ten years is statistically as safe as a much larger region - i.e., one with more autox entries and more vehicle miles/year - that also has an incident every ten years. It should be apparent to anyone that that's VERY faulty logic. Jay "still doing it despite my personal statistics" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 14:03:57 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:06:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) > What I was looking for from Jeff, that he has so far refused to provide, > is an approximate accident/100k vehicle mile figure for the general > public. Why spend effort researching the wrong metric? > Using raw time > would imply that a small region that has a Solo II incident every ten > years is statistically as safe as a much larger region - i.e., one with > more autox entries and more vehicle miles/year - that also has an incident > every ten years. It should be apparent to anyone that that's VERY faulty > logic. Yes, that's not a good metric, but that wasn't what I was asking for. I said miles is wrong, time is better. I didn't say the "per vehicle" part was wrong. And just so another obvious thing doesn't get misinterpretted, by time I don't mean just the time of the actual run - that's not the way the site owner or insurer views it. They insure events and taking into account some expected number of participants (there is some implied factor for the length of a run, but it won't be used to determine whether your insurance is cancelled). Similarly for regular car insurance - you are insured for a period of time, not a number of miles (though of course, there is some factor there too - but again you don't get cancelled for having so many accidents per mile, its a time factor). Perhaps there are some insurance companies that explicitly look at number of vehicle miles run in an autocross and base the rates (and cancellation decisions) primarily on that statistic, but they would be an exception. Its just not practical/cost effective for insurance companies to be measuring/verifying those kinds of things. Same for regular car insurance. Time is the key. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 14:16:54 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Kevin Daigle Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:17:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Collected team.net comments, questions & answers (long) Kevin Daigle wrote: > > It is mine, which is still not complete. Taking longer than expected as I > have to get companies to make the parts for me. Such as my 13x9 Kaiser > Wheels. TEC-II went onto car 2 weeks ago. I still have no source for a real > LSD. I thought Mopar was going to come thru, but when the SCCA killed the > LSD from the SSB/SSC Neons Mopar killed making one. As of today car is 80% > complete and it will be at the Dallas National Tour event next week. I do > not think it will ever be the CSP car to beat when you have CRX's with > 160hp that only weigh in at 1,600lbs. HOLLY COW! Let's get a little spin control on this here. I seroiously doubt there are any CSP legal CRX's out there making even close to 160hp at that weight. Try 130 hp or so. But the weight is a good call for the lighter CSP hondas. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 14:42:59 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jeff Winchell Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:43:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) Jeff Winchell wrote: > I said miles is wrong, time is better. I didn't say the "per vehicle" part > was wrong. OK, then, here's another pass. Same scenario: mean entries/event = 150, mean time/run=1 minute, 4 runs/per competitor/event, 10 events/year. That's 600 vehicle minutes = 10 vehicle hours/event = 100 vehicle hours/year. 1 incident in 10 years is then 1 incident/1000 vehicle hours. > And just so another obvious thing doesn't get misinterpretted, by time I > don't mean just the time of the actual run - that's not the way the site > owner or insurer views it. They insure events and taking into account > some expected number of participants (there is some implied factor > for the length of a run, but it won't be used to determine whether your > insurance is cancelled). Forget insurance cancellation for the moment. How does the above compare to normal driving on public roads? I know DOT has data on accidents/100k vehicle miles, and I'd bet they also have the same data based on vehicle hours. > Similarly for regular car insurance - you are > insured for a period of time, not a number of miles Uhh, and that would be why they always want to know your commuting mileage and your expected annual mileage? No, they DO consider mileage. More miles = more time = MORE EXPOSURE. That's not difficult or controversial. Nor is it statistically questionable. > (though of course, > there is some factor there too - but again you don't get cancelled for > having so many accidents per mile, its a time factor). You DO, OTOH, pay higher RATES for more annual MILEAGE. And why would that be, if mileage weren't a major factor? > Time is the key. There it is, above. How does that compare with normal street driving? Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 14:47:12 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jeff Winchell Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:48:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) Jeff Winchell wrote: > And just so another obvious thing doesn't get misinterpretted, by time I > don't mean just the time of the actual run - that's not the way the site > owner or insurer views it. The insurer in our case doesn't even cover damage to a competitor's vehicle, so, in the case of an incident where no other property is damaged and no injury occurs, NO CLAIM IS EVEN FILED. Does that mean such an incident didn't HAPPEN or that its occurrence has no implications for event safety or site retention? Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 16:09:10 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: lsw@southwind.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:22:02 EDT Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) Please, No more lawyer stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its old!!!!!!! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 16:13:05 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:26:57 EDT Subject: Leaving for Texas I plan to leave for Texas Thursday afternoon. Try to make it to? Anybody got any ideas on decent places to stay along I-35 South? I have never been south of Witch-ita on 35. Can anyone help? Loren you could redeem yourself here, Buddy! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 16:48:04 1999 From: "Jodi Fordahl" To: "Jay Mitchell" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:46:46 -0700 Subject: RE: 911's & SP Proposal Power to weight ratio and sheer size are the strikes against the 911. There is no way to get a 911 anywhere near the power to weight ratio of a Lotus. Also you can't get enough tire on the ground with a narrow body 911 so have to put flares on them which obviously makes them wider. The Lotii can go flat out in a straight line where we have to turn. Just voicing my opinion. Hopefully it won't matter to me anymore in about a month. -Jodi Fordahl -----Original Message----- From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Jay Mitchell Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 9:03 AM To: Jodi Fordahl Cc: Joshua Hadler; Wes Shew; Team dot net Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal Jodi Fordahl wrote: > Having > driven the car the last couple of weekends and lots of other ASP 911's I > would say that Curt's car has the best shot at doing well at Nationals than > any other I've driven, but I don't believe it can win. It puzzles me when he comes within .8 seconds of Shauna's combined two day times at Nationals and yet I hear someone say they believe the car "can't win." Is it really the case that neither car nor driver could possibly have had the potential for that extra .4 sec per day that would have been needed? Are we to believe that the car is perfectly prepped and the driver drove it perfectly? I accept that this is possible, and that Curt is one of the drivers who might pull this off, but is it probable? It IS clearly the case that Dwight Mitchell's 911 could win ASP; it did so in 1990 and 1994. And no, I don't know the course conditions or car prep levels or the mental state of his competitors those years, although I'm sure Scotty can provide all that information to prove that Dwight really shouldn't have won and the Lotus drivers are all subpar and none of the Lotuses was as fast as it could have been, etc. I'm not interested in anything but common sense here. It appears that there is a tremendous amount of superstitious fear of Lotuses that is entirely unjustified. As high performance cars go, they're cheap, and there are still plenty of Elans and Europas around in case anyone is feeling rained on because "they can't find one." Parts are available and generally cheaper than German car parts, and the cars are, for the most part, easy to work on. Why is there such hysteria about these cars? Jay "it's just a car" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 16:49:06 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autocross list" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:40:43 -0700 Subject: inside edge tire wear? Howdy all. Why is the inside edge of my front tires wearing much more than the outside edges on my Neon? Here's the lowdown on the setup. Toyo RA1 225/50-14's up front on 14x6" AR24s at 38-39 psi. 1.8 degrees negative camber and about 3/16" total toe out. I figured that as badly as I overdrive the corners and push all the way through them that the outside edges would be wearing out first. Am I just spinning the inside tires so much coming out of the corners that I'm wearing them down first? What gives? Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 16:58:50 1999 From: "Jodi Fordahl" To: "Craig Blome" , Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:57:33 -0700 Subject: RE: Where are the TVR's? There is a guy from Canada that runs a Griffith locally in ASP and Greg has worked on it a few times. The car looks like a hoot to drive but the short wheelbase and fairly crude suspension seems to limit it somewhat. -Jodi Fordahl -----Original Message----- From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Craig Blome Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 10:28 AM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: ASP: Where are the TVR's? All the recent traffic about ASP reminded me of a question I had a while ago: When is the last time someone ran a TVR Tuscan V8 or Griffith in ASP? Why the relative absence...are they just too rare? It seems like a 1750 lb. car with a 289 hi-po Ford would be just the thing for autocrossing... 'Course the last time I saw a Griffith for sale the owner was asking $26K. Maybe that's why. Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 17:06:20 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:09:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) > The insurer in our case doesn't even cover damage to a competitor's > vehicle, so, in the case of an incident where no other property is > damaged and no injury occurs, NO CLAIM IS EVEN FILED. Does that mean > such an incident didn't HAPPEN or that its occurrence has no > implications for event safety or site retention? If there is no insurance claim and no site property is damaged, and no injury occurs, I guess I'm not sure why this has impact on site retention (assuming there is an otherwise good relationship between the site owners and site users). From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 17:07:59 1999 From: Kevin Bailey To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:04:56 -0600 Subject: RE: Leaving for Texas Do you mean you don't drive straight through? 8^) After all these years I thought that was the only way to get to events! VBG Have fun - hope somebody keeps us 'stay at homes' updated on the event! -Kay Bailey I plan to leave for Texas Thursday afternoon. Try to make it to? Anybody got any ideas on decent places to stay along I-35 South? I have never been south of Witch-ita on 35. Can anyone help? Loren you could redeem yourself here, Buddy! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 17:16:31 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:19:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) > Forget insurance cancellation for the moment. I believe this whole thing got started because people were worried about sites being cancelled (as well as the varying definitions of safety). Since the latter is subjective, I would like to focus on something that can be more easily analyzed (site retention). Maybe afterwards we can delve back into the quagmire of what is safe. Since insurance cancellation will cause site cancellation, I don't think we can ignore it. > Uhh, and that would be why they always want to know your commuting > mileage and your expected annual mileage? No, they DO consider mileage. It is a self reported number. Time is a much more important factor. > You DO, OTOH, pay higher RATES for more annual MILEAGE. It is a factor, but primarily in wide bands of mileage. It is much more relevant for people who rarely drive (i.e. collector cars) or drive heavily commercially (e.g., 20-30K miles per year). I will talk to K&K this week (as I have to do this for some racing events our club is putting on), and get more detailed information on all of this. And I'll look into stats for average drivers (non-racers) from the insurance companies. DOT may compile stats, but I'm more interested in what insurance companies use to assess rates and cancellation policies. (BTW, as long as you want to pay enough, there is always someone who will provide insurance - so site retention really comes down to costs). From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 17:18:04 1999 From: "Karl A. Rickert" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 19:14:01 -0400 Subject: New Autox Tires: Which ones for me? Allrighty now, there's a wad of cash in my pocket, itching to be spent on new autox tires, but which tire is for me? The new "G-Force" or the "K" tire? I'm not considereing any others! Unless...... Current tire is the 205/55/14 R-1 and "I Love 'em!", current vehicle is...... a 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, wheel is 5-1/2" wide. I am getting around 75-90 runs per set and want to see the same or more number of runs with the new ones. I need a tire that's gonna give me an edge on the compettion, since the car surely isn't gonna. Karl A. Rickert C Stock Alfa Spider #38 Dixie Region SCCA TLS #25 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 17:25:42 1999 From: PZahornask@aol.com To: eric10mm@qni.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:24:14 EDT Subject: Re: inside edge tire wear? In a message dated 4/4/99 6:08:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eric10mm@qni.com writes: > 1.8 degrees negative camber and about 3/16" total toe > out. > That will do it every time From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 18:12:34 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: soundtire@email.msn.com, cblome@yahoo.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:11:59 EDT Subject: Re: Where are the TVR's? The newer TVR's had very good suspensions(1973 and later) Unequal length double wishbone. Much like a Formula Ford or S2. Some of the older cars had a really oddball rear. They used 2 shocks in the back. Some of the later cars(Like mine) still had the mounts on the frame but only used one shock. Those wacky Brits! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 18:22:50 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: eric10mm@qni.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:21:17 EDT Subject: Re: inside edge tire wear? Hey Knuckledrager, Buy a Pyrometer! Sounds like WWWWWWAAAAAAYYYYYY to much negative camber to me! (Scotty B. White Mode off) Mike(Love to bust Linnhoff's ass) B. TLS#1 Why did I give this guy a number anyway? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 18:56:58 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: soundtire@email.msn.com Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 19:56:32 -0700 Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal Jodi Fordahl wrote: > Power to weight ratio and sheer size are the strikes against the 911. There > is no way to get a 911 anywhere near the power to weight ratio of a Lotus. OK, I had to consult the oracle (old R&Ts) and do some estimating. Here's the best information I can put together for the cars involved: Elan Stock - 1640 lbs., 113 hp 14.5 lb/hp SP - 1500 lbs., 125-130 hp 11.5-12 lb/hp 911 Stock - 2490 lbs., 167 hp. 14.9 lb/hp SP - 2400 lbs., 200+ hp. 12- lb/hp For the stock Elan power and weight, I used 1973 Elan Sprint power and curb weight firgures. The Elan's SP weight is from a post from Charlie Cave on team.net, and the power range is estimated. Keep in mind that pre-Sprint Elans, with a whopping 1558cc engine, made something like 101 SAE net hp, and they came from the factory with Webers and headers. You can't legally run a Sprint engine with Webers, which would be good for some more power. The manifold and head are a single casting, so you're stuck with the emission-inspired Stromberg head if you run a Sprint engine. There's just not that much more power there beyond stock. For the 911 stock numbers, I used figures from a January 1974 road test of a 911 Carrera. The SP 911 power is the STOCK 3.2 engine's power figure from a February 1984 road test of a 911 Carrera, and the weight is, I believe, a conservative estimate of what is achievable if you start with pre-74 body and update to the 3.2 engine. Now, if you can get an SP 911 down to 2300 lbs., you wind up with 11.5 lb./hp. If, in addition, you can get more than the stock hp from the 3.2 engine, it gets better still. Point is, I just don't see the Elan having an overwhelming advantage in power/weight. It may actually be at a disadvantage there. > Also you can't get enough tire on the ground with a narrow body 911 so have > to put flares on them which obviously makes them wider. The Lotii can go > flat out in a straight line where we have to turn. There's an approximate 5" track difference between the stock cars, with the Elan being narrower. You can't put wider rims on a stock Elan body, either, so the difference between tracks in SP trim will be pretty close to that number. Yes, the Elan does have an advantage there, but it depends on the course as to how much that's worth. Obviously, the above figures don't tell the whole story. There are gearing, suspension design, braking, and chassis rigidity issues, and I'm sure the Elan doesn't have an advantage in all those areas. I still don't see a class worth of difference there. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 19:07:39 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:28:08 -0500 Subject: Re: "It's just a car" - Colin is rolling over in his grave >> You can argue that Loti are unsafe on the highway > >Only if you hit something. =8<0 Depends upon the Lotus. Any Lotus sold by Lotus in the USA since 1975, (The Esprit, Elite, Eclat) can take a hit with the best of them. They are extremely crashworthy. > >>but you cannot successfully argue the RWD Elan and Europa are >> not the dominant car in ASP over time. How about recently? Classing decisions should not be based on ancient history when recent history says otherwise. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 19:27:05 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:25:38 EDT Subject: Ringers still accepted Team Laughing Stock is still accepting new members! If you want to one of "The few the proud and" Oh well nice try! E-Mail me at hottvr@tfs.net We still need some A,B,C-Mod Ringers to make our dream come true. That dream is for a TLS driver to trophy at the Nationals! Be the first on your block! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 19:49:12 1999 From: "Scott Johnson" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:57:07 -0500 Subject: SP Reclassifications! Neons to DSP? I've never laughed so hard! There's a lot of cars out there that people would run in SP if they were in a class with other cars of simlar weight and drivetrain configuration: Neon's Sentra SE-R's, NX2000's, 200SX SE-R's VW Hatchbacks (8v,16v,VR6) Integras and Civic Sedans Grand Ams + other various GM cars Wait! That's STR. :-) -Scott Johnson sjohnson@kcnet.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 19:54:52 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: , Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:50:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Where are the TVR's? -----Original Message----- From: Hottvr@aol.com >The newer TVR's had very good suspensions(1973 and later) Unequal length >double wishbone. Much like a Formula Ford or S2. Some of the older cars had a really >oddball rear. They used 2 shocks in the back. Sort of like mid-'80s Mustangs, right? Hmmm... Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 20:06:26 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Joshua Hadler , Kevin Daigle Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Collected team.net comments, questions & answers (long) --- Joshua Hadler wrote: > Kevin Daigle wrote: > > I do > > not think it will ever be the CSP car to beat when > you have CRX's with > > 160hp that only weigh in at 1,600lbs. > > HOLLY COW! Let's get a little spin control on this > here. I seroiously > doubt there are any CSP legal CRX's out there making > even close to 160hp > at that weight. Try 130 hp or so. But the weight is > a good call for the > lighter CSP hondas. > According to the factory specs the lightest possible CSP CRX is going to be more like 1800#... Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 20:14:51 1999 From: Mark Belcik To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:16:34 -0500 Subject: Was Re: 1991 Miata, now siging off Well, I appreciate all the replies about the miata and Camaro. It looks like I'm going with the Camaro, they couldn't give me any definite answers about the Miata and I couldn't get it to a Mazda dealer. Unfortunately, my break is over and I'm heading back to school. So, I must sign off. If anyone has any other comments please email them directly to me, thanks! Also, if anyone has any setup ideas for the camaro to make it more fun (i know it won't be competitive) I'd appreciate them. Thanks again, Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 20:20:25 1999 From: Karl Witt To: Mtnman3620@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:30:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Question on DSMs in ProSolo Uh...unless I'm mistaken the DSMs are in P2 witht he rest of the turbo cars... Karl At 11:08 AM 4/4/99 -0400, Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: >Forgive me for not listening a while back but I have just a simple question >with, I think, a not so simple answer: What reason was given for not >allowing the Talon/Eclipse crowd in the Pro Series? Just curious as to why >it is not in the P6 class along with the other top GS cars. > >Daniel Ledford >99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX >http://sac.uky.edu/~drledf0 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 20:23:43 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:10:16 -0500 Subject: Re-establishing F Prepared In this month's Fastrack, member feedback was requested for a proposal to re-establish AP and FP as it was prior to 1997. I concur with the proposal to segregate these classes, but with rather than as it was, will propose the following: AP FP Elva Courier Alfa Romeo GTV V6 Honda Civic/CRX BMW 3 Series Lotus Elan Chevrolet Corvair Europa Daimler Europa TwinCam Datsun/Nissan Seven, 7A 240/260/280/ Super 7 (1340cc ) 300 Z & ZX Super 7 (1498cc) (All Series) Porsche Carrera 4cyl Ferrari (Dino & 308) TVR Jaguar 6 cyl 1600 Mazda RX 7(All Seres) 1800 Pontiac Fiero 6 cylinder (1700lbs) Porsche 911/914 924S/ 944 (All Series non-turbo) Toyota Supra (All) MR2 (pre 89) Triumph GT6/TR250/ TR5/TR6 Volkswagen Corrado The basic separation point in this proposal is that less than 1799lbs is AP and over 1800lbs is FP. The weight for the TVR-6 has been decreased to 50lbs lighter than the V8, thus putting it in AP. All V8's ( Morgan+8, Shelby Cobra, Sunbeam Tiger, TR-8, TVR Griffith) go to BP , but with weight allowances/penalties as fitting. The Porsche 944 non-turbo has been added to Prepared in FP. The Honda Civic and CRX have been moved from EP to AP (check the results from the last couple Nationals). And the Corvair's will have a place to play where they will be more competitive - in FP. I have forwarded this to the Prepared Comittee members that have e-mail. Any thoughts? George Ryan From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 20:42:28 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jeff Winchell Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:42:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Spins & Blame (statistics) OK, here are some basic statistics from the DOT. They're available on the web: 1997 fatalities nationwide: 1.7/100 million passenger miles. 1997 injuries nationwide: 134/100 million passenger miles. I didn't look further. Obviously, there are lots more accidents in which there is only property damage, but those statistics weren't supplied in the basic informatino section. I won't comment re any possible comparisons to Solo II accident rates. Draw your own conclusions. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 20:43:09 1999 From: SOLOMIATA@aol.com To: cblome@yahoo.com, jhadler@rmi.net, kevin@laol.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:41:39 EDT Subject: Re: DSP Neon As a CSP competitor I want to comment. A nationally competitive CSP 1st gen Honda will make about 125-130 HP if it has +.040 overbore and a full tilt aftermarket ECU/manifold/IR TB's. A local/regional 1st gen with a fresh FI motor and typical mods like a Integra ECU makes about 110-115. A legal weight is about 1800-1850# not 1600. The light weight is a definite advantage but many competitors overlook the fact that the car can amazingly transfer 100% of it's power to the ground, they never spin an inside front tire, which makes it competitive also. The 27 and 27.5mm torsion bars that are used by the fast cars equal about 600-650 lbs/in rate. As an example, the equivalent in a Neon would be about a 900 lb spring. I haven't seen any Neons try a 900 lbs spring yet. I haven't seen any Neons with a +.040 overbore either (Yes, I know the Neon is a thin wall block and you'd probably never get 50K miles out of +.040 overbore but it will surely last 6 runs at Nationals.) I commented about Neons going to DSP when this same discussion came up about 6 months ago. I still stand behind what I send then: << >>A SP fully built lb/hp ratio for: >>1st Gen CRX: 1800/130 = 13.84 >>1.8 Miata: 2100/155 = 13.54 >>DOHC Neon: 2300/180 = 12.78. >>(Before anyone says anything about the 180 hp estimate, keep in mind that the 2.0 Neon motor is afterall a large bore/small stroke motor. +.040 will give even more performance than typical) >>The 2nd gear final drive is: >>1st Gen CRX 1.894*4.40 (high altitiude option) = 8.33 >>Miata 1.888*4.30 = 8.12 >>ACR/DOHC Neon 2.12*3.94 = 8.35 >>The Honda typically uses the Hoosier Bias ply 225/45/13 at 20.8" diameter >>The Miata typically uses the Hoosier radial 225/50/13 at 21.6" diameter >>The Neon typically uses the Hoosier 225/45/15 at 22.8" diameter but somebody will eventually put the 225/50/13 radial on. >>The Neon has the best lb/hp ratio >>The Neon has the best 2nd gearing, tire diameter independant >>The only problem with the Neon is that no one has developed the car enough to make the 180 HP and transfer all that power to the ground and yet keep steering response and turn-in good. It wasn't until about 1993-4 or so that the 1st gen CRX's consistently dominated in CSP. Give the Neon time and it will be the fastest CSP car. << > Kevin Daigle wrote: > > I do > > not think it will ever be the CSP car to beat when > you have CRX's with > > 160hp that only weigh in at 1,600lbs. > > HOLLY COW! Let's get a little spin control on this > here. I seroiously > doubt there are any CSP legal CRX's out there making > even close to 160hp > at that weight. Try 130 hp or so. But the weight is > a good call for the > lighter CSP hondas. > According to the factory specs the lightest possible CSP CRX is going to be more like 1800#... Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX >> From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 20:58:03 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "George Ryan" , Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:46:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Re-establishing F Prepared In addition, let any turbocharged/supercharged car not otherwise classified in Prepared to run in AP. I think it is pretty silly for SCCA to deny all these cars a place to play in Prepared Category. I won't be writing a letter to SEB (since I have no right to) but if any of you all agree, go ahead and steal my idea. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 21:01:54 1999 From: "Bob Landdeck" To: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:04:49 -0500 Subject: Paging Erik Strelnieks Erik I read your post regarding your experience with the G-Force radials on the RX7. I will be running the tires for the first time at the Fort Worth Tour and I wondered if you would mind giving me some pointers on tire pressure. I normally run 34#'s front, 30-32#'s on rear with the R-1's. That's with shock settings on GAB's at 7-front: and 3-rear. If you wouldn't mind helping a competitor I promise I won't beat you... but I'll try. Thanks in advance for any help that you can give me. See you this weekend... Bob Landdeck, Tulsa, Oklahoma From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 21:08:17 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: "Phil Ethier" , Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:55:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Re-establishing F Prepared BP allows the Mazda turbos, Mitsubishi Starion, Chrysler Corp turbos, Porsche Turbos, Nissan Turbos, Supra turbos, and VW Corrado turbos. If they have missed very many, then maybe they should be plugged in here, instead of with the "lightweights" in my proposed AP. G -------------------- > > In addition, let any turbocharged/supercharged car not otherwise classified > in Prepared to run in AP. I think it is pretty silly for SCCA to deny all > these cars a place to play in Prepared Category. > > > -------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 21:13:57 1999 From: "Doug Hebenthal" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 20:13:36 PDT Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal I have stayed out of this thread until now. Let's talk about Curt's car for a second. It is as close to a perfect 911 for autocross that exists. No expense was spared to create the car, no advantage that the rules allow was passed up. It started from nothing and was built by the best in the business (wrt 911's) to be a winning car. That car cost as much as 4-5 Lotus Elan's to build. A Tri-Point RX7TT falls into this same category. I also have a car that up to now has cost 4 or so Lotus's to build, and I have probably another one to go before it is competitive (a 911 RS America). In this car the driver needs to get up to speed also (me) but past national champion's have driven the car against Curt and Loti and in both cases it is not quite there yet. Why do I bring this up? Because two years ago, a Lotus Elan showed up to Nationals after having been driven once or twice all year (A Lotus Elan), ran on three tires that were three years old and one that was two years old (he corded one of the three year old tires) and walked away with the national championship. This same car showed up to the Wendover ProSolo as its next event (some 9 months later) and gave Curt a heck of a time. Same tires from Nationals the previous year... I have run against some other Lotus's in California where the caliber of driver is not up to Shauna and Curt and yet the car is right there in the lead or very, very close behind. The best car in ASP is a Lotus Elan. The RS7TT is very good, and with a great driver behind the wheel is competitive, but competitive with an average driver behind the wheel of a Elan. There is also this little problem with numbers. There were not enough '66 and '67 Elan's made to make it in SP. They were grandfathered in a long time ago, and stayed in even after all other "Letters" from the SEB had been nullified. They should not legally be in SP. So the best of breed version of the 911 or the RX7TT (and considering the current uproar about increasing boost with Legal mods, maybe even these cars will be rendered helpless) with great drivers in them can compete, on some courses (the north course at Nationals last year was a high horsepower course!) can be competitive...maybe. That to me does not make an interesting class, or one that I will return to nationals to run in. Doug Hebenthal 81 ASP, Got killed by all of the above last year...10th in ASP >Jodi Fordahl wrote: > >> Having >> driven the car the last couple of weekends and lots of other ASP 911's I >> would say that Curt's car has the best shot at doing well at Nationals than >> any other I've driven, but I don't believe it can win. > >It puzzles me when he comes within .8 seconds of Shauna's combined two >day times at Nationals and yet I hear someone say they believe the car >"can't win." Is it really the case that neither car nor driver could >possibly have had the potential for that extra .4 sec per day that would >have been needed? Are we to believe that the car is perfectly prepped >and the driver drove it perfectly? I accept that this is possible, and >that Curt is one of the drivers who might pull this off, but is it >probable? > >It IS clearly the case that Dwight Mitchell's 911 could win ASP; it did >so in 1990 and 1994. And no, I don't know the course conditions or car >prep levels or the mental state of his competitors those years, although >I'm sure Scotty can provide all that information to prove that Dwight >really shouldn't have won and the Lotus drivers are all subpar and none >of the Lotuses was as fast as it could have been, etc. > >I'm not interested in anything but common sense here. It appears that >there is a tremendous amount of superstitious fear of Lotuses that is >entirely unjustified. As high performance cars go, they're cheap, and >there are still plenty of Elans and Europas around in case anyone is >feeling rained on because "they can't find one." Parts are available and >generally cheaper than German car parts, and the cars are, for the most >part, easy to work on. Why is there such hysteria about these cars? > >Jay "it's just a car" Mitchell > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 21:27:39 1999 From: washburn To: Jay Mitchell Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:24:50 -0500 Subject: Re: "It's just a car" - Colin is rolling over in his grave Jay Mitchell wrote: > > Maybe the Elan is the best ASP car to have. It is not, however, so much > better than the other two cars that they cannot win. And it's been more > than 10 years since a Europa won. The results speak for themselves. > Hi Jay. I'm following the Lotus ASP thread with interest becuase I am an admitted Europa fan. (Yes, I have sought support) anyway, are the Europa really out gunned in ASP, or is it that there just isn't a hyper-serious effort? I don't know you or your car, so I'll apologize for that question now just in case. ;) I don't really know a lot about ASP, and I know nothing about history of ASP cars at the National level, but I could sure get real interested if Europa's were a player. Thanks! -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 21:38:15 1999 From: "Deanne" To: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:37:12 -0500 Subject: Newbie question Hi. I am new to autocrossing and was wondering if anyone else out there is driving a 97-99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP? I participated in my first event a few weekends ago in Texas and ran in the ESP class. It was a blast. My car doesn't seem to fit in any other class though. Just looking for anyone else with this car to discuss setup etc. Sorry if this came through twice. I sent it a few days ago and it never showed up. Any pointers will be appreciated. Deanne Fort Worth, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 21:55:33 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: "Deanne" , Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:55:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Newbie question Your car is in GS (Gran Prix GTP, 97+). >Hi. I am new to autocrossing and was wondering if anyone else out there is >driving a 97-99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP? I participated in my first event a >few weekends ago in Texas and ran in the ESP class. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 22:01:55 1999 From: "Deanne" To: "David Hawkins" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:00:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Newbie question Dave, I thought so too....but I have mods to it so they put me in ESP. Does that sound right? I have a cone filter, smaller supercharger pulley, strut tower braces. Thanks. Deanne > Your car is in GS (Gran Prix GTP, 97+). From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 22:43:42 1999 From: Jeff Cashmore To: autox list Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 23:48:02 -0500 Subject: W2W drivers school I'm sorry to have to say that you've lost me. I'll never autocross again. I've found another love. My first SCCA drivers school was at IRP this Sat. 3 hrs of track time road racing sure beats 6 minutes of autocrossing on the weekend fun meter. I haven't been this charged up since sky diving. Oh wait, I can't afford to do this every weekend. Rats!! http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/99irpds.html has pictures and more info. -- Jeff Cashmore 1983 Mazda Rx7 GSL = Spec Rx7 http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/wai.html = Wisconsin Autocrossers Inc homepage http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/specrx7.html = Spec Rx7 startup info From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 4 22:49:59 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: "Deanne" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:49:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Newbie question >I thought so too....but I have mods to it so they put me in ESP. Does that >sound right? I have a cone filter, smaller supercharger pulley, strut >tower braces. Thanks. Ah, see now, you didn't give us the full picture :) Actually, the undersize SC pulley bumps you way out into EM. You have to be careful with boosted cars when you start playing by the rules. The other items would only put in ESP. David Hawkins 93 MR2 Turbo ASP 85 Mr2 CSP/ITA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 03:23:38 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 04:36:05 -0400 Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal I should'a kept my Elan. Bruce Wentzel Green Dot Racing, Inc. BSP 71 Corvette LS6 - the original Greendot -----Original Message----- From: Doug Hebenthal To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 11:22 PM Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal >I have stayed out of this thread until now. Let's talk about Curt's car >for a second. It is as close to a perfect 911 for autocross that >exists. No expense was spared to create the car, no advantage that the >rules allow was passed up. It started from nothing and was built by the >best in the business (wrt 911's) to be a winning car. That car cost as >much as 4-5 Lotus Elan's to build. A Tri-Point RX7TT falls into this >same category. > >I also have a car that up to now has cost 4 or so Lotus's to build, and >I have probably another one to go before it is competitive (a 911 RS >America). In this car the driver needs to get up to speed also (me) but >past national champion's have driven the car against Curt and Loti and >in both cases it is not quite there yet. > >Why do I bring this up? Because two years ago, a Lotus Elan showed up >to Nationals after having been driven once or twice all year (A Lotus >Elan), ran on three tires that were three years old and one that was two >years old (he corded one of the three year old tires) and walked away >with the national championship. This same car showed up to the Wendover >ProSolo as its next event (some 9 months later) and gave Curt a heck of >a time. Same tires from Nationals the previous year... > >I have run against some other Lotus's in California where the caliber of >driver is not up to Shauna and Curt and yet the car is right there in >the lead or very, very close behind. The best car in ASP is a Lotus >Elan. The RS7TT is very good, and with a great driver behind the wheel >is competitive, but competitive with an average driver behind the wheel >of a Elan. > >There is also this little problem with numbers. There were not enough >'66 and '67 Elan's made to make it in SP. They were grandfathered in a >long time ago, and stayed in even after all other "Letters" from the SEB >had been nullified. They should not legally be in SP. > >So the best of breed version of the 911 or the RX7TT (and considering >the current uproar about increasing boost with Legal mods, maybe even >these cars will be rendered helpless) with great drivers in them can >compete, on some courses (the north course at Nationals last year was a >high horsepower course!) can be competitive...maybe. That to me does >not make an interesting class, or one that I will return to nationals to >run in. > >Doug Hebenthal >81 ASP, Got killed by all of the above last year...10th in ASP > > > >>Jodi Fordahl wrote: >> >>> Having >>> driven the car the last couple of weekends and lots of other ASP >911's I >>> would say that Curt's car has the best shot at doing well at >Nationals than >>> any other I've driven, but I don't believe it can win. >> >>It puzzles me when he comes within .8 seconds of Shauna's combined two >>day times at Nationals and yet I hear someone say they believe the car >>"can't win." Is it really the case that neither car nor driver could >>possibly have had the potential for that extra .4 sec per day that >would >>have been needed? Are we to believe that the car is perfectly prepped >>and the driver drove it perfectly? I accept that this is possible, and >>that Curt is one of the drivers who might pull this off, but is it >>probable? >> >>It IS clearly the case that Dwight Mitchell's 911 could win ASP; it did >>so in 1990 and 1994. And no, I don't know the course conditions or car >>prep levels or the mental state of his competitors those years, >although >>I'm sure Scotty can provide all that information to prove that Dwight >>really shouldn't have won and the Lotus drivers are all subpar and none >>of the Lotuses was as fast as it could have been, etc. >> >>I'm not interested in anything but common sense here. It appears that >>there is a tremendous amount of superstitious fear of Lotuses that is >>entirely unjustified. As high performance cars go, they're cheap, and >>there are still plenty of Elans and Europas around in case anyone is >>feeling rained on because "they can't find one." Parts are available >and >>generally cheaper than German car parts, and the cars are, for the most >>part, easy to work on. Why is there such hysteria about these cars? >> >>Jay "it's just a car" Mitchell >> >> >> > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 03:23:42 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: "Wes Shew" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 04:51:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Neon brake bleeding If I could have found them real inexpensive I was going to include them with the Speedbleeders, so I don't have an answer for you. GM is putting them on Corvettes and Camaros. I don't know the cost. I'm wondering about rubber vacuum caps. Don't know the source. Let me know if you find something. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Wes Shew To: Bruce Wentzel Cc: Eric Linnhoff ; autocross list ; neon list Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Neon brake bleeding >On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Bruce Wentzel wrote: > >> BTW, your mention of corrosion prompts me to say that I _highly_ >> recommend getting some rubber or plastic caps to put on your >> bleeder screws. Many new cars now come with these. They keep > >Any ideas which maker has nice and affordable caps? Porsches have them, >but I'm afraid to ask the price. Maybe I'll check the home depot. > >Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] >#99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder > #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic > SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 06:13:11 1999 From: "R. John Lye" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:48:03 -0400 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Jay Mitchell wrote: >I also didn't say you could read only your local classifieds and find >one. However, a serious autoxer can easily find an Elan, if that's what >(s)he wants. Sure - if anyone wants one, my partner and I are restoring one right now. It will probably be prepared as an AP/vintage racer but could be set to SP specs if that was desired. Elans are around, you just have to look a bit. later, John Lye '59 TR-3A, '62 TR-4, '70 GT-6+ email: rjl6n@virginia.edu homepage: http://avery.med.virginia.edu/~rjl6n/homepage.htm From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 06:19:42 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Doug Hebenthal Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:19:01 -0700 Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal Doug Hebenthal wrote: > I have stayed out of this thread until now. Let's talk about Curt's car > for a second. It is as close to a perfect 911 for autocross that > exists. No expense was spared to create the car, no advantage that the > rules allow was passed up. So, let's actualy TALK about Curt's car, then. How much power does it have? How much does it weigh? What size wheels/tires, what spring rates, what is the track? I'm all for comparisons, but let's use data, not emotions. > It started from nothing and was built by the > best in the business (wrt 911's) to be a winning car. OK, I'll accept that. What does it really mean, though? > That car cost as > much as 4-5 Lotus Elan's to build. A Tri-Point RX7TT falls into this > same category. That's irrelevant. The number of dollars an individual CHOOSES to spend prepping an SP car is NOT a factor in classing that car. I dunno why it is that Porsche competitors seem to want this to be a factor (well, so does Scotty) but it's not and it shouldn't be. I could give my Lotus to a racing prep shop, tell them to make it into a winning ASP car, come back six months later to get it, and I could easily have a bill waiting for me for 25-30k. There'd still be no guarantee that the car would be optimum, or that I would win driving it. This sounds an awful lot like "Waaah. I spent lots more money on my car and it's a lot better-looking and I drove up in a motor home and that guy in a shabby-looking car beat me." Seems like I've heard that kinda thing before. > I also have a car that up to now has cost 4 or so Lotus's to build, and > I have probably another one to go before it is competitive (a 911 RS > America). How much of the work did you do yourself? Are you saying that every nickel of what you spent was on performance items, and that you HAD to spend that much just to develop the car? > In this car the driver needs to get up to speed also (me) but I would say that I'm in a similar position. My car might become competitive, but the driver is another matter. > Why do I bring this up? Because two years ago, a Lotus Elan showed up > to Nationals after having been driven once or twice all year (A Lotus > Elan), ran on three tires that were three years old and one that was two > years old (he corded one of the three year old tires) and walked away > with the national championship. "Walked away?" Once again, I'd be happy to hear actual data. Emotional characterizations just aren't relevant. > This same car showed up to the Wendover > ProSolo as its next event (some 9 months later) and gave Curt a heck of > a time. So, did it BEAT Curt? If not, what's your point? > Same tires from Nationals the previous year... I wasn't aware that Pro Solo tech had become so lax as to allow corded tires to pass. > I have run against some other Lotus's in California where the caliber of > driver is not up to Shauna and Curt and yet the car is right there in > the lead or very, very close behind. Again, emotional considerations. Data, please. > The best car in ASP is a Lotus > Elan. Let's say I agree. There is a "best" car in more than one other Solo II class. In most of those cases, the owners of the OTHER cars aren't bitching to get their cars reclassed. > The RS7TT is very good, and with a great driver behind the wheel > is competitive, but competitive with an average driver behind the wheel > of a Elan. Charlie Cave, Craig Carr, and Rex Carle are "average?" Naahh. > There is also this little problem with numbers. There were not enough > '66 and '67 Elan's made to make it in SP. You're absolutely wrong there. There is not now, nor has there EVER been, a production quantity rule for cars actually classed in Stock or SP. The annual production rule is for cars "not specifically classed." BTW, there were far more Elans made than 914/6s. Are you trying to get rid of them, too? > They were grandfathered in a > long time ago, No they were NOT. They were classed when they were still being manufactured, just like the Porsche, and they have REMAINED in the rule book, just like your out-of-production, hard-to-find, expensive, RS America. >They should not legally be in SP. Wrong again. They are sports cars just the same as yours, and they have every bit as much history in Solo II. You're looking for an excuse rather than trying to make a rational argument. >That to me does > not make an interesting class, or one that I will return to nationals to > run in. You already said that you need to improve as a driver. Maybe that is the most productive place to direct your energy at this time. It certainly is for me. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 07:11:33 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:08:33 -0500 Subject: Possible Nationals Site I saw a report on "Raceday" or NASCAR Today" yesterday about the new NASCAR track being built in Kansas City, KS by Bill France, Jr. The track is planned to open in 2001. It will have a parking lot for 165,000 cars. This sounds like an ideal Nationals site. Centrally located, at the intersection of two Interstates, large city, large lot, asphalt(???). Does anyone know more about this track? Isn't NOW the time for someone at national office to be contacting Bill France? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 07:21:45 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Greg Lee Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:17:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site I was out there a week ago or so. Just a lot of dirt now. I think the 2001 date is a stretch. Looks like theres a bunch to do before its a reality. I think the local clubs will get to run there. I have heard rumors that we are anyway. Mike B. TLS#1 Greg Lee wrote: > I saw a report on "Raceday" or NASCAR Today" yesterday about the new NASCAR > track being built in Kansas City, KS by Bill France, Jr. The track is > planned to open in 2001. It will have a parking lot for 165,000 cars. This > sounds like an ideal Nationals site. Centrally located, at the intersection > of two Interstates, large city, large lot, asphalt(???). Does anyone know > more about this track? Isn't NOW the time for someone at national office to > be contacting Bill France? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 07:33:14 1999 From: "Burns, James B." To: autox Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:33:03 -0400 Subject: Re: 911 vs. Elan Power to Weight >Power to weight ratio and sheer size are the strikes against the 911. There >is no way to get a 911 anywhere near the power to weight ratio of a Lotus. The numbers I've heard from several sources are about 1500 lbs. for the Elan with up to 150 hp. For an early 911 with a fully prepped 3.2L motor, I've heard roughly 2200 lbs. and 250 hp. So the 911 appears to have the advantage as far as hp/weight. However, given similar hp/weight ratios, the smaller lighter car will usually have a significant advantage for autox, assuming its suspension design doesn't totally suck (but the more powerful car will often be faster on a road race course). As far as cost, there was a guy here in the mid-Atlantic area (from PA, I think, and the last name was Newman?) who built a '69 or '70 911 with a well-prepped 3.2L motor and Carrera suspension, flares, etc. He was selling it a couple of years ago for about $20K I believe. Granted, these deals are rare, and it would probably cost you twice that much to build one from scratch, but I know of three similarly prepped cars in my area that each sold for under $20K. BTW, does anyone know where this car is now? Brad Burns From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 07:42:18 1999 From: "Burns, James B." To: autox Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:42:11 -0400 Subject: Re: M Roadster and M Coupe in SS >The rear suspension in the M cars makes the rear end twichy. Maybe >set-up can help this, but it will not completely take it away. At least >in an Rx-7 you know when the rear is going to step out. If I remember correctly, the E36 3-series BMWs got a new rear suspension design which was much more stable and forgiving. But the new roadsters and coupes got the old E30 rear suspension design because there wasn't enough space to fit the E36 rear suspension. This is why an M Roadster or Coupe is less predictable and less forgiving than an M3. Brad Burns From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 07:45:20 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:43:06 -0600 Subject: RE: inside edge tire wear? > 1.8 degrees negative camber Here's your answer. Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster (Headers are built and no to do the crossover tube) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 07:57:44 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:00:55 -0400 Subject: Re: M Roadster and M Coupe in SS As far as the Coupe and the Roadster, due to its hardtop the Coupe will be slightly lighter and more rigid than the Roadster, and therefore probably handle a little better. It's a little early to have any hard data on this yet, but we'll see as the year goes on. There's also the issue of whether you can deal with the, um, "unique" appearance of the Coupe. At first, I didn't like it. Now, I don't care how it looks - after driving a 2.8 Coupe (not the M), I learned that it drives beautifully, has a much better shifter than the rest of the new 3 series, and when you're driving the car you're so wrapped up in its wonderful driving experience that you don't give a flying salami how it looks. Anybody wanna trade their Coupe for an old 320i? :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 07:59:00 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Greg Lee" , "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:00:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site >I saw a report on "Raceday" or NASCAR Today" yesterday about the new NASCAR >track being built in Kansas City, KS by Bill France, Jr. The track is >planned to open in 2001. It will have a parking lot for 165,000 cars. This >sounds like an ideal Nationals site. Centrally located, at the intersection >of two Interstates, large city, large lot, asphalt(???). Does anyone know >more about this track? Isn't NOW the time for someone at national office to >be contacting Bill France? ======================= First they actually have to finish building the track. Right now it's just a great big level field of mud. Then we locals will butter them up in an attempt to gain use of their lots. Only after we "mark our territory" and give it our blessing will we let y'all come play and beat us on our home turf. ;^) Keep your fingers crossed, I know I am. When Bill builds it, they will come. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 08:04:16 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autocross" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:05:58 -0500 Subject: Solotime series Hey all, I just panicked cuz I found an old sheet that I printed off from the Nebraska Regon home page and it shows the first Solotime event to be at the end of this month, April. Is this correct? I thought that the first Solotime Middiv event was at the end of May. Help me out guys. I'm sweatin' bullets here. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 08:05:56 1999 From: Newms911@aol.com To: BurnsJB1@central.ssd.jhuapl.edu, autox@autox.team.net (autox) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:04:25 EDT Subject: Re: 911 vs. Elan Power to Weight In a message dated 4/5/99 9:52:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BurnsJB1@central.SSD.JHUAPL.edu writes: << BTW, does anyone know where this car is now? >> It's in my garage. Currently in Carrera RS replica trim, white with red graphics. My brother Dave Newman built the car, a '70T with flares, '86 3.2, '74 915 with quaife, etc. etc. and took it to 7th at (his first) nationals in i think 1996. That was the first year the RX7 won, Rex was way back, still in his very well prepared 911. It was sold to a PCA member in NH looking for a track car and then last year I bought it back from him. I do not have the time ($) to campaign it nationally, still ASP legal, though a bit overweight with rollbar and such, but do lots of local stuff, SCCA and PCA. We are very happy to have it back in the family. See you on course. Rick Newman From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 08:40:12 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Deanne" , "David Hawkins" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:37:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Newbie question >I thought so too....but I have mods to it so they put me in ESP. Does that >sound right? I have a cone filter, smaller supercharger pulley, strut >tower braces. Thanks. Sorry, the smaller supercharger pulley is not legal in Street Prepared. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 08:41:20 1999 From: Tom Reichel To: seadentx@aol.com Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 10:42:19 -0400 Subject: A3S02 vs. A3S03 The A3S03 has a different belt package and rounder shoulder profile. BTW, what size, kind of car? Regards, Tom Reichel Mid-Atlantic Motorsport Specializing in Solo since 1985 248-852-5006 hoosiert@ix.netcom.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 08:42:06 1999 From: "Steve Ostrovitz" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:42:41 -0400 Subject: Trailer For Sale 1997 Econo Trailer. Flat bed, dual axle, electric brakes, 15' diamond plate deck. Custom tire rack made from 1.5" in square steel tube stock. Hardly used, stored indoors since new. $1750.00 Steve Ostrovitz 508-620-8865 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 08:47:56 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autocross" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:49:32 -0500 Subject: inside edge tire wear, the saga continues. A lot of the respondants to my inside edge tire wear question seem to think that the large amount of negative camber that I have dialed in (about 1.8 degrees) is probably the main reason for the inside edges wearing faster than the outside edges. Actually for Neons this is not a lot of negative camber but compared to other camber-challenged cars I guess that it can be considered a lot. So........how can I equalize the wear? Drive harder and wear the outer edge out faster? Less tire pressure to give the outside edge more "bite"? Turn the tires around on the wheel and wear the "other" inside edge? What? And Mike, I don't need a pyrometer, I have two hands that can feel the heat on the tires just fine. From everything that I've read we autocrossers are never gonna have perfectly equal temps across the tread surface since we basically toss the car every possible direction. But I can tell when one edge is noticably warmer than the other and adjust the tire pressure to sorta equalize them. Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 08:54:28 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:53:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-establishing F Prepared CP also allows turbocars, such as the Mustang Fox bodies -- though, for some reason, not to the level of prep allowed in SP (in CP, though windows and interior can be removed, and any turbo can be used, nevertheless intercoolers don't appear to be changeable). Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: George Ryan To: Phil Ethier ; autox@autox.team.net Cc: jtmck@netnitco.net ; kpcmptrs@jps.net ; sandilew@troi.csw.net ; 73734.2701@compuserve.com <73734.2701@compuserve.com> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 8:07 PM Subject: Re: Re-establishing F Prepared >BP allows the Mazda turbos, Mitsubishi Starion, Chrysler Corp turbos, >Porsche Turbos, Nissan Turbos, Supra turbos, and VW Corrado turbos. > >If they have missed very many, then maybe they should be plugged in >here, instead of with the "lightweights" in my proposed AP. > >G > >-------------------- >> >> In addition, let any turbocharged/supercharged car not otherwise >classified >> in Prepared to run in AP. I think it is pretty silly for SCCA to deny >all >> these cars a place to play in Prepared Category. >> >> >> >-------------------- > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 09:43:43 1999 From: whitney To: SOLOMIATA@aol.com, cblome@yahoo.com, jhadler@rmi.net, kevin@laol.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 10:42:21 -0700 Subject: Re: DSP Neon - CRX weights Hate to burst the bubble, but a stock CRX HF (the best starting point) weighs 1713bs from the factory - with a 1.5 carb engine, add the Si drivetrain, and the weight might increase slightly, but start adding lightness (wheels, seats, batteries, harness,steering wheel, tires, ,etc) and a 1600lb car is not that much of a myth. My last civic weighed 1725 in CSP trim, and that was with heavy seats, and all the AC plumbing still in place (No the 1300 shell was not a weight saver) The HP numbers are about right, and yes, at any speed above 20mph, you can put down all available power. It's a little tougher in 1st gear, but I can normally at least do 3/4 throttle. Stan Whitney DP/EP 87 CRX (weighs 1573# before ballast, and still has most on the interior (no pass seat) and all glass) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:08:26 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Greg Lee Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:04:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Greg, Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the ugliness of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify the area. --Pat Kelly Greg Lee wrote: > I saw a report on "Raceday" or NASCAR Today" yesterday about the new NASCAR > track being built in Kansas City, KS by Bill France, Jr. The track is > planned to open in 2001. It will have a parking lot for 165,000 cars. This > sounds like an ideal Nationals site. Centrally located, at the intersection > of two Interstates, large city, large lot, asphalt(???). Does anyone know > more about this track? Isn't NOW the time for someone at national office to > be contacting Bill France? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:11:59 1999 From: Steve Couture To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Three rights, One left Well, I just received a "set" of four 205-55-14 Kumhos from the fine folks at the Tire Rack. Three marked as rights and one marked as a left. There have been a number of posts here from individuals who received 4 right tires wondering what the deal was. Now I am aware that the manufacturing process for these tires had changed such that mounting is no longer side dependant. There is one part number for both sides. They are all the same. It is completely safe. Yadda, yadda, yadda. What I want to know is where did this one left tire come from? I had the impression that all new Kumhos were marked as rights (not known fact, just my impression... I don't know where I got this idea, I may be completely wrong, all standard disclaimers apply). I was actually expecting a set of 4 rights. If I received a "leftie", is this an older tire, or does the same "everything is ok" footnote apply to this one as well? And can anyone provide a little assistance with pressure settings for these tires on a Neon ACR? -- Steve Couture (rhymes with future) 1998 Neon ACR Seen on a bumper sticker: "Is anal retentive spelled with a hyphen?" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:12:51 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: "Eric Linnhoff" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:10:38 -0700 Subject: Re: inside edge tire wear, the saga continues. Unfortunately, the problem is the combination of the two settings. If you had zero toe and that much negative camber, the wear would be minimal. If you had that much toe out and 0 degrees negative camber, you wouldn't *notice* that much because you would be creating friction and wear across the entire tread. BOTH of these combined create lots of friction on the inside edge while driving straight down the road. To minimize your wear, I would learn how to adjust your toe at the events. AB A lot of the respondants to my inside edge tire wear question seem to think that the large amount of negative camber that I have dialed in (about 1.8 degrees) is probably the main reason for the inside edges wearing faster than the outside edges. Actually for Neons this is not a lot of negative camber but compared to other camber-challenged cars I guess that it can be considered a lot. So........how can I equalize the wear? Drive harder and wear the outer edge out faster? Less tire pressure to give the outside edge more "bite"? Turn the tires around on the wheel and wear the "other" inside edge? What? And Mike, I don't need a pyrometer, I have two hands that can feel the heat on the tires just fine. From everything that I've read we autocrossers are never gonna have perfectly equal temps across the tread surface since we basically toss the car every possible direction. But I can tell when one edge is noticably warmer than the other and adjust the tire pressure to sorta equalize them. Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:14:47 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Pat Kelly" , "Greg Lee" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:16:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site >> I saw a report on "Raceday" or NASCAR Today" yesterday about the new NASCAR >> track being built in Kansas City, KS by Bill France, Jr. The track is >> planned to open in 2001. It will have a parking lot for 165,000 cars. This >> sounds like an ideal Nationals site. Centrally located, at the intersection >> of two Interstates, large city, large lot, asphalt(???). ---------------------------------- >Greg, > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the ugliness >of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have >legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify the >area. > --Pat Kelly ============================ Yup, right here in KC there are certain areas that legislate that for every X number of square feet of parking lot there must be Y number of trees or shrubs planted. There are several excellent sites that are unusable because of this lunacy. Oh well, hopefully the infield won't get messed up. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:17:49 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:15:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Kelly > Greg, > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the ugliness > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have > legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify the > area. > --Pat Kelly Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same butt ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:24:13 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Greg Lee'" , lollipop@ricochet.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:25:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Possible Nationals Site I was thinking Super-Kmart myself. > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Lee [SMTP:greg@ThumbsUpRacing.com] > Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 11:16 AM > To: lollipop@ricochet.net > Cc: Team.Net > Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Pat Kelly > > > Greg, > > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the > ugliness > > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have > > legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify > the > > area. > > --Pat Kelly > > Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I > don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same > butt > ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:24:36 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:24:34 PDT Subject: Wheeley Serwous Qwestion Ok for all the Geometery fans on the list A tire has an overall diameter of 24.4" this a tall 245/45/16 on a 16x7" rim the car has 0 degrees camber if i pull -1 degrees how much will the top of the tire move in in inches Thanks Jeff Lloyd From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:30:12 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:31:46 -0500 Subject: Re: inside edge tire wear, the saga continues. >Unfortunately, the problem is the combination of the two settings. If you >had zero toe and that much negative camber, the wear would be minimal. If >you had that much toe out and 0 degrees negative camber, you wouldn't >*notice* that much because you would be creating friction and wear across >the entire tread. > >BOTH of these combined create lots of friction on the inside edge while >driving straight down the road. To minimize your wear, I would learn how >to adjust your toe at the events. > >AB ====================== This wear is only a concern on the race tires. I'm too lazy to change the toe setting twice each weekend and I really don't care what happens to my street tires. If I have to buy a fresh set of street tires each year for about $250, then so be it. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:32:52 1999 From: Kevin McCormick To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:32:19 -0700 Subject: 240SX questions Hi all, I've been looking at the 1991-1993 Nissan 240sx and hope that some of you knowledgeable folks might have information (or know where to find it :-) as to the options/packages. In particular: - As I understand it, there was a sport package - any idea what that included? - there was also a viscious limited slip - was that a line item option, or part of a package? How well does it work? I've driven two 240sx's before and wheelspin is indeed an issue, so this might be useful. - The ABS was a three channel system - how good/bad is it? Anything to look for/look out for? Thanks in advance! Kevin McCormick From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:39:20 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Greg Lee , lollipop@ricochet.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:31:30 -0700 Subject: RE: Possible Nationals Site Greg Lee writes... >Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I >don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same butt >ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ What are you doing at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning? Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Lee [SMTP:greg@ThumbsUpRacing.com] > Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:16 AM > To: lollipop@ricochet.net > Cc: Team.Net > Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Pat Kelly > > > Greg, > > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the > ugliness > > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have > > legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify > the > > area. > > --Pat Kelly > > Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I > don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same > butt > ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:41:53 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:54:51 -0700 Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Jay Mitchell To: Doug Hebenthal Cc: autox@autox.team.net Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 5:21 AM Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal >Doug Hebenthal wrote: > >> I have stayed out of this thread until now. Let's talk about Curt's car >> for a second. It is as close to a perfect 911 for autocross that >> exists. No expense was spared to create the car, no advantage that the >> rules allow was passed up. > >So, let's actualy TALK about Curt's car, then. How much power does it >have? How much does it weigh? What size wheels/tires, what spring rates, >what is the track? I'm all for comparisons, but let's use data, not >emotions. > >> It started from nothing and was built by the >> best in the business (wrt 911's) to be a winning car. > >OK, I'll accept that. What does it really mean, though? > >> That car cost as >> much as 4-5 Lotus Elan's to build. A Tri-Point RX7TT falls into this >> same category. > >That's irrelevant. The number of dollars an individual CHOOSES to spend >prepping an SP car is NOT a factor in classing that car. I dunno why it >is that Porsche competitors seem to want this to be a factor (well, so >does Scotty) but it's not and it shouldn't be. Hey butthead! Stop even tryin to speak for me, you're not qualified! You have no idea what you are talkin about and if you want to quote me in context I suppose that is tolerable, anything else is unacceptable! GOT IT!? sbw I could give my Lotus to >a racing prep shop, tell them to make it into a winning ASP car, come >back six months later to get it, and I could easily have a bill waiting >for me for 25-30k. There'd still be no guarantee that the car would be >optimum, or that I would win driving it. This sounds an awful lot like >"Waaah. I spent lots more money on my car and it's a lot better-looking >and I drove up in a motor home and that guy in a shabby-looking car beat >me." Seems like I've heard that kinda thing before. > >> I also have a car that up to now has cost 4 or so Lotus's to build, and >> I have probably another one to go before it is competitive (a 911 RS >> America). > >How much of the work did you do yourself? Are you saying that every >nickel of what you spent was on performance items, and that you HAD to >spend that much just to develop the car? > >> In this car the driver needs to get up to speed also (me) but > >I would say that I'm in a similar position. My car might become >competitive, but the driver is another matter. > >> Why do I bring this up? Because two years ago, a Lotus Elan showed up >> to Nationals after having been driven once or twice all year (A Lotus >> Elan), ran on three tires that were three years old and one that was two >> years old (he corded one of the three year old tires) and walked away >> with the national championship. > >"Walked away?" Once again, I'd be happy to hear actual data. Emotional >characterizations just aren't relevant. > >> This same car showed up to the Wendover >> ProSolo as its next event (some 9 months later) and gave Curt a heck of >> a time. > >So, did it BEAT Curt? If not, what's your point? > >> Same tires from Nationals the previous year... > >I wasn't aware that Pro Solo tech had become so lax as to allow corded >tires to pass. > >> I have run against some other Lotus's in California where the caliber of >> driver is not up to Shauna and Curt and yet the car is right there in >> the lead or very, very close behind. > >Again, emotional considerations. Data, please. > >> The best car in ASP is a Lotus >> Elan. > >Let's say I agree. There is a "best" car in more than one other Solo II >class. In most of those cases, the owners of the OTHER cars aren't >bitching to get their cars reclassed. > >> The RS7TT is very good, and with a great driver behind the wheel >> is competitive, but competitive with an average driver behind the wheel >> of a Elan. > >Charlie Cave, Craig Carr, and Rex Carle are "average?" Naahh. > >> There is also this little problem with numbers. There were not enough >> '66 and '67 Elan's made to make it in SP. > >You're absolutely wrong there. There is not now, nor has there EVER >been, a production quantity rule for cars actually classed in Stock or >SP. The annual production rule is for cars "not specifically classed." >BTW, there were far more Elans made than 914/6s. Are you trying to get >rid of them, too? > >> They were grandfathered in a >> long time ago, > >No they were NOT. They were classed when they were still being >manufactured, just like the Porsche, and they have REMAINED in the rule >book, just like your out-of-production, hard-to-find, expensive, RS >America. > >>They should not legally be in SP. > >Wrong again. They are sports cars just the same as yours, and they have >every bit as much history in Solo II. You're looking for an excuse >rather than trying to make a rational argument. > >>That to me does >> not make an interesting class, or one that I will return to nationals to >> run in. > >You already said that you need to improve as a driver. Maybe that is the >most productive place to direct your energy at this time. It certainly >is for me. > >Jay > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 10:51:27 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:04:32 -0700 Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Jay Because two years ago, a Lotus Elan showed up >> to Nationals after having been driven once or twice all year (A Lotus >> Elan), ran on three tires that were three years old and one that was two >> years old (he corded one of the three year old tires) and walked away >> with the national championship. > >"Walked away?" Once again, I'd be happy to hear actual data. Emotional >characterizations just aren't relevant. > >> This same car showed up to the Wendover >> ProSolo as its next event (some 9 months later) and gave Curt a heck of >> a time. > >So, did it BEAT Curt? If not, what's your point? > >> Same tires from Nationals the previous year... > >I wasn't aware that Pro Solo tech had become so lax as to allow corded >tires to pass. Quit bein such an Idiot and read the F*&)(*% Post, he said the corded one was replaced! >> I have run against some other Lotus's in California where the caliber of >> driver is not up to Shauna and Curt and yet the car is right there in >> the lead or very, very close behind. > >Again, emotional considerations. Data, please. Well, lessseeeeee, put these guys in different cars and they still win! Put Cave or Carle in somethin else and they don't, simple enough jr.? >> The RS7TT is very good, and with a great driver behind the wheel >> is competitive, but competitive with an average driver behind the wheel >> of a Elan. > >Charlie Cave, Craig Carr, and Rex Carle are "average?" Naahh. And what in the hell qualifies you to judge? Have you ever ventured out of your bedroom in San Fran to watch any of these drivers? Face it j, you know nothing and all you want is to argue, you're an idiot without a life period! sb (sick & tired of mitchell's shit) w From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 11:10:01 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Scotty *BOB* White" , Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:07:05 -0500 Subject: Re: 911's & SP Proposal SBW spews forth: > And what in the hell qualifies you to judge? Intelligence. Experience. Common sense. Of which qualities it appears you have the only the second, and that in a pretty small dose. >Face it j, you know nothing and all you want is to argue, you're an idiot without a life >period! And that's the kind of comment that really enhances your credibility. I won't speculate as to the quality of YOUR life or the lack thereof, as it might turn out that you actually have one, contrary to appearances. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 11:16:38 1999 From: YSPECT8@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:15:27 EDT Subject: Cool Web Site - Oil Filter Comparison >> From: Paul Foster http://members.xoom.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html >> This site is definitely worth your 15 minutes. I have sent its author a thank you! David Flesher From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 11:47:06 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:43:52 -0500 Subject: SP Proposal This has been really interesting. I have learned, for one thing, that fully prepping a 911 or an RX7tt for ASP costs as much as FOUR Lotus Elans. I've also learned that, apparently, a fully-prepped ASP 911 has a better power/weight ratio than an Elan (thanks Brad). *********WARNING! SARCASM ALERT!*********** Read the following at your own risk. These facts, combined with the most recent Solo II Nationals results, lead me to conclude that there is simply no place in SP for the RX7tt or the 911. They're just too expensive. And too hard to find. Let's face it, even if the Elans left SP, the poor Porsche guys who don't have enough money to optimally update/backdate a 911 will be mere trophy fodder, as will any Mazda driver who can't afford the tab for a full-boat ASP RX7tt. In keeping with the grassroots nature of autocross, it is my position that these cars have the potential of stifling competition and therefore ruining the class. Loti, OTOH, are so cheap by comparison that, if the offending cars are removed, Elan and Europa owners will come to Nationals in greater numbers. I propose this in the interest of the greatest possible number of potential autox competitors, recognizing that a small group of competitors will be harmed by my proposal. ;<) Jay "shoe's on the other foot now" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 12:01:49 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Pat Kelly , Greg Lee Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site --- Pat Kelly wrote: > Greg, > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to > take away from the ugliness > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in > the country have > legislation that any new parking lots must have > trees, etc. to beautify the > area. > --Pat Kelly > Actually there is another reason...limiting the "impervious cover" (ecospeak for pavement) is supposed to control the amount of rainwater that runs off into creeks and rivers, carrying pollution with it. Of course it doesn't actually do diddlysquat what with all the developers dumping who knows what from their construction sites, but it lets the city bureaucrats look like they are doing something. :-P Craig B., writing from Austin TX where the trees have an attitude problem From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 12:12:31 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Craig Blome Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:07:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site This is pretty silly when you sit back and think about it. When you have parking for 165,000 cars who cares about a few trees around it. This parking lot is going to be so huge you could run 10 Nationals courses at the same time! So forget about the trees. Mike B. Craig Blome wrote: > --- Pat Kelly wrote: > > Greg, > > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to > > take away from the ugliness > > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in > > the country have > > legislation that any new parking lots must have > > trees, etc. to beautify the > > area. > > --Pat Kelly > > > > Actually there is another reason...limiting the > "impervious cover" (ecospeak for pavement) is supposed > to control the amount of rainwater that runs off into > creeks and rivers, carrying pollution with it. Of > course it doesn't actually do diddlysquat what with > all the developers dumping who knows what from their > construction sites, but it lets the city bureaucrats > look like they are doing something. :-P > > Craig B., writing from Austin TX where the trees have > an attitude problem From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 12:13:42 1999 From: Phil Esra To: autox@autox.team.net, ba-autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Civic disobedience I was watching my co-driver autox my '86 Civic Si on Saturday, and noticed wisps of steam (I think) exiting the exhaust under acceleration. Does that mean the headgasket is failing? Or...? It was at the end of the day; the car was warm but not hot. Any advice would be very appreciated. thanks, Phil Esra '86 Civic Si ST ps Who's running in Street Touring at the Atwater Pro? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 12:25:44 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Mike Bultemeier" , "Craig Blome" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:27:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site >This is pretty silly when you sit back and think about it. When you have >parking for >165,000 cars who cares about a few trees around it. This parking lot is >going >to be so huge you could run 10 Nationals courses at the same time! So >forget >about the trees. > >Mike B. ======================== I dunno Mike, I've seen some pretty good sized lots around town here that were totally screwed (for our needs anyway) by a few trees and shrubs and a nice 4-6" high curb planted right smack-dab in the middle of the lot. Or worse yet, just off center enough to make two totally useless half lots. But with enough parking for 165,000 3 toothed, half witted, inbred, drunken, left-turn-straight, left-turn-straight fans you'd hope that there will be some small lot that's still large enough to make us drool and hit third gear occasionally. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 13:12:01 1999 From: "David Fauth" To: "Team. Net" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:08:05 -0600 Subject: Looking for Neon Trailer hitch Does anyone have a used trailer hitch that will fit a 98 Neon that they want to get rid of?(Want to find something cheaper than the new one from U-Haul) Thanks... David Fauth dfauth@net-mgmt.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 13:41:40 1999 From: Keith Wheeler To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:43:37 -0700 Subject: Rover V-8s (was Chevette) "Eric Linnhoff" wrote: >>the Rover V8 weighs 320#...lighter than a lot of iron >>block four cylinders! >> >>CAB >And it'll lighten your wallet by an equivalent amount. Nah. There's lots of 'em out there. I've picked up decent Rover 3.5's for $200. I got a nice 3.9 with fuel injection for $900 (from a '91 Range Rover). RPI sells new 3.9s for $1700 or so. These are the go-(really)-fast engines for the MG and Triumph folks, used in the factory built MGB GT V-8 and TR-8. (And used by Morgan, Marcos, TVR, Westfield). Nice engine. Simple, and old, but lightweight. The TeamSanc pages have lots of links to Rover V-8 info. -Keith Wheeler Team Sanctuary http://www.TeamSanctuary.com/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 13:48:16 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:54:51 -0400 Subject: Atlanta Fun Event on Web The Atlanta Region Solo II Fun event (February 21) results are up and running in fine style on the Atlanta Region webpage at then go to the Solo II page. Ben Thatcher Atlanta Region S2 co-chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 14:16:08 1999 From: Todd Farris To: Mike Bultemeier Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:16:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site At 08:17 AM 4/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >I was out there a week ago or so. Just a lot of dirt now. I think the 2001 date >is a stretch. Looks like theres a bunch to do before its a reality. I think the >local clubs >will get to run there. I have heard rumors that we are anyway. > >Mike B. TLS#1 > >Greg Lee wrote: > >> I saw a report on "Raceday" or NASCAR Today" yesterday about the new NASCAR >> track being built in Kansas City, KS by Bill France, Jr. The track is >> planned to open in 2001. It will have a parking lot for 165,000 cars. This >> sounds like an ideal Nationals site. Centrally located, at the intersection >> of two Interstates, large city, large lot, asphalt(???). Does anyone know >> more about this track? Isn't NOW the time for someone at national office to >> be contacting Bill France? > > If that is what you consider a good site, how about the Texas Motor Speedway north of Ft Worth. We are having a Natl tour this weekend. Maybe we can get some pros and cons. If anything, it is a heck of a lot warmer than kansas in September. Turbo Toddie CP96 Turbo Trans Am From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 14:24:30 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Craig Blome Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:20:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Very true. We live in a home that, when we purchased it, was not near a flood plain of any kind, but since all the building "upstream" from us, the flood plain has been inching further and further "up" -- mostly because of runoff control, lack of drainage which has not kept up with the development. --Pat Kelly Craig Blome wrote: > --- Pat Kelly wrote: > > Greg, > > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to > > take away from the ugliness > > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in > > the country have > > legislation that any new parking lots must have > > trees, etc. to beautify the > > area. > > --Pat Kelly > > > > Actually there is another reason...limiting the > "impervious cover" (ecospeak for pavement) is supposed > to control the amount of rainwater that runs off into > creeks and rivers, carrying pollution with it. Of > course it doesn't actually do diddlysquat what with > all the developers dumping who knows what from their > construction sites, but it lets the city bureaucrats > look like they are doing something. :-P > > Craig B., writing from Austin TX where the trees have > an attitude problem > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 14:46:24 1999 From: "Glenn Duensing" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "Pat Kelly" , Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:43:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Don't get your hopes up. Even if they don't plant trees or shrubs, they just might be like LV Motor Speedway and California Speedway, large lots, no trees or shrubs and $5,000 per day. Glenn >>> I saw a report on "Raceday" or NASCAR Today" yesterday about the new >NASCAR >>> track being built in Kansas City, KS by Bill France, Jr. The track >is >>> planned to open in 2001. It will have a parking lot for 165,000 >cars. This >>> sounds like an ideal Nationals site. Centrally located, at the >intersection >>> of two Interstates, large city, large lot, asphalt(???). >---------------------------------- >>Greg, >> Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the >ugliness >>of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have >>legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify >the >>area. >> --Pat Kelly >============================ >Yup, right here in KC there are certain areas that legislate that for >every X number of square feet of parking lot there must be Y number of >trees or shrubs planted. There are several excellent sites that are >unusable because of this lunacy. > >Oh well, hopefully the infield won't get messed up. ;^) > >See you on course. > >Eric Linnhoff in KC >#69DS TLS #13 >'98 Neon R/T > > >You jump in front of my car When you know all the time >That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive >You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain >You say you just want me to take you for a drive >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >"Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 14:50:06 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autocross list Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: inside edge tire wear? Howdy, On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Eric Linnhoff wrote: > Why is the inside edge of my front tires wearing much more than the outside > edges on my Neon? > > Here's the lowdown on the setup. Toyo RA1 225/50-14's up front on 14x6" > AR24s at 38-39 psi. 1.8 degrees negative camber and about 3/16" total toe > out. > > I figured that as badly as I overdrive the corners and push all the way > through them that the outside edges would be wearing out first. > > Am I just spinning the inside tires so much coming out of the corners that > I'm wearing them down first? Yes. Or "In my experience, yes." I've been told by a couple people that the fast neon drivers destroy the inside of their front tires, but I haven't seen it myself. What I have seen is fairly severe wear on the inside front tires when I've just held the go pedal to the floor and let the tire spin. I try not to do that as much now... :-) Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 14:56:50 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Todd Farris , Mike Bultemeier Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site --- Todd Farris wrote: > If that is what you consider a good site, how about > the Texas Motor > Speedway north of Ft Worth...If anything, it is a > heck of a lot warmer > than kansas in September. Yep, a LOT warmer, as in high 90's/low 100's frequently. Maybe some of the California competition would melt... >;-) Craig "if the asphalt doesn't stick to your shoes it's not grippy enough" B. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 15:22:27 1999 From: John Lieberman To: Bruce Wentzel Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:25:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Neon brake bleeding Don't know how well they'd work, Dot & Eric, but your friendly neighborhood Auto Zone or Pep Boys sells an assortment of rubber vacuum caps on those little red and white blister-pack cards. Whether they'd stand up to brake fluid remains to be seen. But, as cheap as they are, it might be worth a try. John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman Bruce Wentzel wrote: > > If I could have found them real inexpensive I was going to > include them with the Speedbleeders, so I don't have an answer > for you. GM is putting them on Corvettes and Camaros. I don't > know the cost. I'm wondering about rubber vacuum caps. Don't > know the source. Let me know if you find something. > > Bruce From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 15:42:38 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Craig Blome Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:38:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Craig, Hot? What's hot? A lot of California events are held in the states' Central Valley, very hot, well into the 100s, no shade. The only plus is it's "dry" heat, low humidity. And, yes, tires work quite well. --Pat K. Craig Blome wrote: > --- Todd Farris wrote: > > If that is what you consider a good site, how about > > the Texas Motor > > Speedway north of Ft Worth...If anything, it is a > > heck of a lot warmer > > than kansas in September. > > Yep, a LOT warmer, as in high 90's/low 100's > frequently. Maybe some of the California competition > would melt... >;-) > > Craig "if the asphalt doesn't stick to your shoes it's > not grippy enough" B. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:00:05 1999 From: "Jodi Fordahl" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:58:48 -0700 Subject: RE: SP Proposal This type of response is exactly why I usually don't post on Team.Net. I'll go back on lurk mode now and let you and Scotty take your frustrations out on each other. Hey Katie, what's new at Clinique? -Jodi Fordahl -----Original Message----- From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Jay Mitchell Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 10:44 AM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: SP Proposal This has been really interesting. I have learned, for one thing, that fully prepping a 911 or an RX7tt for ASP costs as much as FOUR Lotus Elans. I've also learned that, apparently, a fully-prepped ASP 911 has a better power/weight ratio than an Elan (thanks Brad). *********WARNING! SARCASM ALERT!*********** Read the following at your own risk. These facts, combined with the most recent Solo II Nationals results, lead me to conclude that there is simply no place in SP for the RX7tt or the 911. They're just too expensive. And too hard to find. Let's face it, even if the Elans left SP, the poor Porsche guys who don't have enough money to optimally update/backdate a 911 will be mere trophy fodder, as will any Mazda driver who can't afford the tab for a full-boat ASP RX7tt. In keeping with the grassroots nature of autocross, it is my position that these cars have the potential of stifling competition and therefore ruining the class. Loti, OTOH, are so cheap by comparison that, if the offending cars are removed, Elan and Europa owners will come to Nationals in greater numbers. I propose this in the interest of the greatest possible number of potential autox competitors, recognizing that a small group of competitors will be harmed by my proposal. ;<) Jay "shoe's on the other foot now" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:05:36 1999 From: Kevin Daigle To: whitney , SOLOMIATA@aol.com, cblome@yahoo.com, Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 17:05:22 -0500 Subject: Re: DSP Neon - CRX weights At 10:42 AM 4/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hate to burst the bubble, but a stock CRX HF (the best starting point) >weighs 1713bs from the factory - with a 1.5 carb engine, add the Si >drivetrain, and the weight might increase slightly, but start adding >lightness (wheels, seats, batteries, harness,steering wheel, tires, ,etc) >and a 1600lb car is not that much of a myth. Ok, below both Scott Meyers and Stan Whitney say a 1,600 can be done. I do not have the permission of the person who gave me the info that his CRX in CSP weighs 1,600lbs and has Dyno'ed at 160hp to tell you who he acually is, but I will tell you he came out in the top 10 at National's in that car in 1998. I just finished my engine and have not yet Dyno'ed it, but I will. All the Mopar and Electromotive people figure I have about 180hp. My Neon has been lightened to 2,305lbs. But I figure I will have it down to around 2,200lbs for Nationals. I can't see getting anymore weight out of a Neon than that. 1st Gen CRX: 1600/160 = 10.00 DOHC Neon: 2200/180 = 12.22 Maybe I can get one of the Top CSP CRX guys to drive my car on the practice day in Evansville and we will see just which is a faster car as I am by no means one who can drive my car to its limits. I think that will prove the NEon belongs in DSP rather than CSP. >Neil Kuhn's 84 CRX CSP runs from our area. I've seen it on the scales at just >under 1600#. I think his is representative if many others. The 1988 and newer >CRX-s are somewhat heavier. >Scott Meyers >My last civic weighed 1725 in CSP trim, and that was with heavy seats, and >all the AC plumbing still in place (No the 1300 shell was not a weight saver) > >The HP numbers are about right, and yes, at any speed above 20mph, you can >put down all available power. It's a little tougher in 1st gear, but I can >normally at least do 3/4 throttle. > >Stan Whitney Kevin Daigle 1997 Cherokee Country & 1995 Neon ACR #23 CSP with TEC-II Power From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:13:59 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: autox@autox.team.net, ba-autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:13:39 -0700 Subject: Old Age Okay, so I'm standing there in the bathroom of the Oakland Coliseum. My nose is all red from the wind. But that's not all. What the heck is wrong with my face? What are those, wrinkles? "AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!" Teresa Lommatzsch just happened to be in there as I was screaming. "I don't know, Katie. It just hit me the other day, 'I'm not one of the *kids* anymore.'" It's true. Teresa and I were a couple of those autocross babies. Turns out, we BOTH grew up in the Pleasanton Fairgrounds parking lot, but on alternate weekends (her parents were with PCA, and mine with SCCA). Now Teresa owns her own house, and TWO autocross cars. Well, good, she isn't THAT grown up yet. Back to my face. I have been wearing this Clinique sunscreen DAILY. It's not stopping the wrinkles. Never mind the wrinkles. I don't look like a teenager anymore, and this is REALLY bothering me. So, anyway, we stood there and gloomily faced our reality: we're NOT the kids anymore. Oh my gosh. I might be thirty in a very short amount of time, like maybe within this century, but possibly, remotely, much later, I am not saying. We have real jobs and responsibilities, and people rely on US. This sucks. Now the little superstars are Brianne Mitchell, Catherine Liao, Tony Collicchio, Erick Van Waganen, and whoah, Derek HEAD. What is he, 12? Good gawd, we're old. In fact, I went out with a few of these upstarts after attending a car show in San Francisco. We had gone out for pizza, and I said, "Okay, who's up for going to a bar?" "Uh, there's just one problem," said Darren Maddams. "We're all under 21?" NOOOOO! WE used to be the wonderkids. It was Teresa, me, Shauna, Brian Hobaugh, Vic Sias, I dunno, so many of us. Everyone was just amazed that these teenagers knew how to drive. Now WE'RE the grown-ups, and they EXPECT us to know how to drive. And they EXPECT us to do all these other grown-up things, like chair events, and even worse, ACT like responsible adults. Yes, you SHOULD be troubled by this. (On a side note, look who we're trying to impress. Autocrossers. It could be worse.) So, we left the rest room in a blue funk out into the wind and hail. I was determined to hold on to my youth, so I decided to make a run for it. We all know that young people just have too much energy, and darn it, I may be nearly almost thirty within the next several months of even years, but I FEEL like I'm twelve, and I FEEL like doing windsprints and yes, even cartwheels! Teresa took her time, and what's this? Who's this waiting in her Porsche? Oh, it's Aaaaanndy McKee, giving her a ride! What is this, is she too old and tired now to at least WALK back to the autocross! "Well, Katie, we may be old, but we're not stupid," said Andy. Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:20:35 1999 From: "Stevens, Kevin" To: "'Kelly, Katie'" , autox@autox.team.net, Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:21:12 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Age You're only young once, but you can be immature all your life! The world is divided betwixt those of us who find this reassuring, and those who find it alarming. KeS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:26:53 1999 From: Joe Goeke To: "team.net (E-mail)" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:26:35 -0700 Subject: Cars for sale! Not sure this got to team.net, so if it's repeat, you know the drill ;-). ------------------ Time to do a little garage cleaning ;-). I have three cars for sale! Yes, I know that three cars is to many, so pass this along to anyone or list that might be interested. Car 1: Black 94 Miata R 2 time Pro Solo National Champion car, plus more wins than you want to read through ;-). This car is still competitive, just watch George Doganis in San Diego last couple of national events plus he is the Solo II national champ the last two years in his 94. This car is completely setup and a turn key racer! Here's the scoop. - 44K miles - Adjustable Koni's, with proper shimmed spring perchases - Borla stainless cat back exhaust - K&N air filter - Custom 15/16" 3 way adjustable sway bar. Ex Renee Eady bar. - 15x6 wheels with 195/50-15 BFG comp T/A Z tires. Almost new. - Extra set of stock allows with 205/55-14 BFG R1's on them. - Extra new clutch and associated parts. $10K Car 2: 82 VW Scirocco 177K miles New Paint 2 years ago Rebuilt motor 30K miles ago New clutch 20K ago Replace Transmission 10K ago New alternator 20K ago New water pump 5K ago New brakes 3K ago Nice 5 spoke alloy wheels $1800 Car 3: 83 Audi Quattro Turbo Coupe Yes, the rare one. One of 500 in the US. California car, no rust. Good Gold paint 135K miles. Motor rebuilt at 110K Completely stock, except for eibach springs. Have original springs. Cooling system totally overhauled. Suspension overhauled. Needs TLC to get it running a peak performance. $7K Call me if ya want at 206-295-3269 ---JCG Joe Goeke Setup Software Developer ONYX Software Corporation Direct: (425) 519-4097 Fax: (425) 990-3343 E-mail: joeg@onyx.com Web: http://www.onyx.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:28:58 1999 From: John Lieberman To: Jeffrey Lloyd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 17:30:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Wheeley Serwous Qwestion >From a purely mathematical standpoint, Jeff, it would be a little more than 2/10ths of an inch...assuming that a 1-degree change in camber would not change anything else in your front suspension. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The math is really quite easy to figure. Just assume that your 24.4-inch diameter measurement is a vertical line at the inside of your tire. Now rotate that vertical line through a full 360-degree circle about its center. The circumference of that circle would be pi-times-diameter (or two-times-pi-times-radius.) Using a value of 3.1415926 for pi, and your 24.4 inch value for diameter, you get a circumference of 76.654859 inches. Divide that by 360 and you get a value of .2129301 inches for one degree of circumference. But, like I said, that assumes that everything else is static. And that's not usually the case when you're dealing with suspension. Still, it does give you a ballpark figure from which to work. Hope that helps John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman Jeffrey Lloyd wrote: > > Ok for all the Geometery fans on the list > > A tire has an overall diameter of 24.4" > this a tall 245/45/16 on a 16x7" rim > the car has 0 degrees camber > if i pull -1 degrees how much will the top of the tire move in in inches > > Thanks > Jeff Lloyd From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:33:37 1999 From: "Ron Bauer" To: "Kevin McCormick" , Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:32:14 -0000 Subject: Re: 240SX questions So, if this limited slip is indeed "viscious," does that mean it works very well, or that if you're not careful, it might bite you in the butt? Sorry Kevin, I had to have a little fun with that...... Ron Bauer Team Butt Heat ronbauer@aa.net -----Original Message----- From: Kevin McCormick To: 'autox@autox.team.net' Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 4:33 PM Subject: 240SX questions >Hi all, > >I've been looking at the 1991-1993 Nissan 240sx and hope that some of you >knowledgeable folks might have information (or know where to find it :-) as >to the options/packages. > >In particular: > >- As I understand it, there was a sport package - any idea what that >included? > >- there was also a viscious limited slip - was that a line item option, or >part of a package? How well does it work? I've driven two 240sx's before >and wheelspin is indeed an issue, so this might be useful. > >- The ABS was a three channel system - how good/bad is it? > >Anything to look for/look out for? > >Thanks in advance! > >Kevin McCormick > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:37:46 1999 From: Kevin McCormick To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:37:17 -0700 Subject: RE: 240SX questions I think that Michael Butler would say the latter :-) Thanks Ron! Ya just 'had to', huh? :-) You're regressing Ron - Rear wheel drive, to all wheel drive, now to front wheel drive. What's next - YOU pull the car around course? ;-P The question there is, do you stage, or does the car? See ya in Atwater! Kev > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Bauer [mailto:ronbauer@aa.net] > Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 8:32 AM > To: Kevin McCormick; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: 240SX questions > > > So, if this limited slip is indeed "viscious," does that mean > it works very > well, or that if you're not careful, it might bite you in the butt? > > Sorry Kevin, I had to have a little fun with that...... > > Ron Bauer > Team Butt Heat > ronbauer@aa.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin McCormick > To: 'autox@autox.team.net' > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 4:33 PM > Subject: 240SX questions > > > >Hi all, > > > >I've been looking at the 1991-1993 Nissan 240sx and hope > that some of you > >knowledgeable folks might have information (or know where to > find it :-) as > >to the options/packages. > > > >In particular: > > > >- As I understand it, there was a sport package - any idea what that > >included? > > > >- there was also a viscious limited slip - was that a line > item option, or > >part of a package? How well does it work? I've driven two > 240sx's before > >and wheelspin is indeed an issue, so this might be useful. > > > >- The ABS was a three channel system - how good/bad is it? > > > >Anything to look for/look out for? > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >Kevin McCormick > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 16:54:42 1999 From: Phil Esra To: "Kelly, Katie" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:55:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Old Age Katie Kelly: > Oh, it's Aaaaanndy McKee, giving her a ride! What is this, is she too > old > and tired now to at least WALK back to the autocross! > > "Well, Katie, we may be old, but we're not stupid," said Andy. Hey Katie, you just got accused of being stupid by a guy who recently fished his walkie talkie out of a tank of human excrement! How does that make you feel? ;) phil esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:02:30 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Jodi Fordahl Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:01:31 -0700 Subject: Re: SP Proposal Jodi Fordahl wrote: > This type of response is exactly why I usually don't post on Team.Net. My sincerest apologies if you took that as a response to anything you contributed. It was a tongue-in-cheek answer to the suggestion that started this whole idiocy yet again: that Lotuses be should be excluded from competition. In the past it's been Stock, Prepared, and Modified. Now it's Street Prepared. The faulty logic is the same, however. That is exactly why I intro'ed with the sarcasm alert message. It is my impression that you do not want Lotuses booted from SP, but were just contributing information re the 911. I hope that was the correct impression. If I'm wrong, then I retract my apology, and we'll just have to recognize the polar opposites we represent on this issue. My message was offered in defense of a reasonable, adult position by pointing out the intrinsic absurdity of intentionally exclusionary rhetoric. Lotuses belong in _sports car_ competition at least as much as Porsches or Corvettes or MGs or Miatas or MR2s or RX7s or BMWs or any of the other cars that folks like to autox. If you think otherwise, then we'll be arguing lots more in the near future, I'm sure. Jay Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:06:19 1999 From: Craig Blome To: "Kelly, Katie" , autox@autox.team.net, Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Old Age --- "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > to drive. And they EXPECT us to do all these other > grown-up things, like > chair events, and even worse, ACT like responsible > adults. > I was twenty-seven the first time I turned a wheel on a racetrack. My friends say this cannot explain how childish I act... ;) Craig B. "Old age isn't so bad when you consider the alternative."--Maurice Chevalier From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:14:13 1999 From: Don and Sharon Roberts To: Greg Lee Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:50:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Greg Lee wrote: Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same butt ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ * * * At least NASCAR has fans. How many fans, butt-ugly or Pamela Lee beautiful, do you see in the stands at an SCCA professional race on a good day? 2000? 4000? versus over 100,000 for a NASCAR race. A friend of ours, whose son races for A.J. Foyt in the IRL, calls us (SCCA road racers) "Squat-to-Pee Racers". Might there be some truth to that? Sharon Roberts From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:18:38 1999 From: bluemr2@juno.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:19:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Neon brake bleeding >> BTW, your mention of corrosion prompts me to say that I _highly_ >> recommend getting some rubber or plastic caps to put on your >> bleeder screws. Many new cars now come with these. They keep > >Any ideas which maker has nice and affordable caps? Porsches have them, >but I'm afraid to ask the price. Maybe I'll check the home depot. I just bought a set at my Toyota dealer for my MR2. $1.44 a piece. Brian '91 MR2 4em From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:19:44 1999 From: bluemr2@juno.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:17:52 -0500 Subject: inside edge tire wear, the saga continues. >A lot of the respondants to my inside edge tire wear question seem to >think that the large amount of negative camber that I have dialed in >(about 1.8 degrees) is probably the main reason for the inside edges >wearing faster than the outside edges. Actually for Neons this is not a >lot of negative camber but compared to other camber-challenged cars I >guess that it can be considered a lot. I've got -3 degrees camber and 1/16" toe out on the front of my MR2 and my streets wear pretty even. I don't have enough events on the race tires to tell about them... I think it's all the toe out you've got. Brian '91 MR2 4em From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:26:35 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: toddf@pop.tamu.edu, hottvr@tfs.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:26:11 EDT Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site In a message dated 4/5/99 3:17:40 PM Central Daylight Time, toddf@pop.tamu.edu writes: << If that is what you consider a good site, how about the Texas Motor Speedway north of Ft Worth. We are having a Natl tour this weekend. Maybe we can get some pros and cons. If anything, it is a heck of a lot warmer than kansas in September. Turbo Toddie CP96 Turbo Trans Am >> I think those who attend this event will come away impressed with this event site. Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:27:38 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:20:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site I have more than three teeth. . . ---------------------- Eric Linnhoff wrote: > But with enough parking for 165,000 3 toothed, half witted, inbred, > drunken, left-turn-straight, left-turn-straight fans you'd hope that > there will be some small lot that's still large enough to make us drool > and hit third gear occasionally. ;^) > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > You jump in front of my car When you know all the time > That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive > You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain > You say you just want me to take you for a drive > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:27:35 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: "Kelly, Katie" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:16:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Probably scalping NASCAR tickets. . . ----------------------- "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > What are you doing at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning? > > Katie Kelly > Technical Publications > SPSS Bay Area > (510)412-2812 > mailto:katiek@spss.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Guilt slows your metabolism. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Lee [SMTP:greg@ThumbsUpRacing.com] > > Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:16 AM > > To: lollipop@ricochet.net > > Cc: Team.Net > > Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Pat Kelly > > > > > Greg, > > > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the > > ugliness > > > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have > > > legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify > > the > > > area. > > > --Pat Kelly > > > > Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I > > don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same > > butt > > ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:27:37 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: Greg Lee Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:14:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site I didn't know y'all was watchin' me, th'other mornin'. . . Would you believe me if I said I only bought Talladega Busch tickets so I could see the IROC? I didn't think so. ---------------------------------- Greg Lee wrote: > > Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I > don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same butt > ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 17:50:40 1999 From: "Su Brude" To: "Team.net" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:49:50 -0600 Subject: Kumho Stuff for the upcoming National Tour I have a decision to make that I never thought I would have a problem making. For the last couple of years I have been running Hoosiers, I would not consider going to a big event without new tires to run on. (even though most of the time I did not have a prayer, just ego) This year I started running on Kumhos & they are agreeing with the car. My dilemma is that out of habit, I have a backup set of tires mounted and ready to go for this weekend. The set that I have on the car are (guessing of course) 50% - 70% good. (since they are my first set, I am not quite sure when they will start going away). If they where on the same set of rims I would not think twice about running the new ones, but they are on my second set which is about 4 lbs. heavier each than the stock rims. Would I gain anything on the new Kumhos? Even with the weight difference? I changed to the Kumhos since they seem to have a longer useful tire life, I am just wondering if they still go away after time? Does anyone know what the Kumho sticker requirements are for their contingencies? (once again, not a prayer, I just need to help identify which of the many red rx-7s is mine, boy I glad they make us put numbers on them. ;-) ) Thanks in Advance & See ya in Texas, Su Brude #93 SS (yes open class) - '93 "Arrest-Me-Red" RX-7 Texas Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 18:04:38 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Deanne" , "David Hawkins" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:07:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Newbie question >I thought so too....but I have mods to it so they put me in ESP. Does that >sound right? I have a cone filter, smaller supercharger pulley, strut >tower braces. Thanks. With the pulley your lucky they didn't put you in Mod Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 18:08:00 1999 From: Dick Rasmussen To: washburn , autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:08:03 -0400 Subject: Re: "It's just a car" - Colin is rolling over in his grave At 10:24 PM 4/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Jay. I'm following the Lotus ASP thread with interest becuase I am >an admitted Europa fan. (Yes, I have sought support) anyway, are the >Europa really out gunned in ASP, or is it that there just isn't a >hyper-serious effort? I don't know you or your car, so I'll apologize >for that question now just in case. ;) I don't really know a lot about >ASP, and I know nothing about history of ASP cars at the National level, >but I could sure get real interested if Europa's were a player. Thanks! Look in the back of the rule book. The Europas used to be players. I don't know how Maxey's car was prepared. The fast car in 86 was Milligan's very early Europa but he did one or two minor things (that the Solo Board legalized right after the event) that made him vulnerable to protest by Porsche and/or Datsun Z folk. I ended up with the win in an almost stock (taller, stiffer rear springs and a small rear sway bar) 74 twin cam Europa that I drove from North Carolina. It had stock everything except for the Hoosier Autocrossers and the two items noted above. The tired engine made it home and then after two events two rods started knocking. I guess this proves the theory that anybody can win in a Lotus. (I've only trophied in CM and won in a Datsun Z). Milligan seems to have won in 87 in the same or similar Europa to the one he should have won with in 86. We all know how shakey Gary's driving credentials are. Roughly as shakey as Tommy Saunders, another ex Lotus winner! Whether a Europa can be competitive against current competition, I have no idea. I rebuilt the engine, did minor suspension mods, headers, and desmogged it and then got interested in other cars. Sold it to a guy in Atlanta in 96 . . . just before Hurricane Fran put a huge tree through the garage it had lived in! This was the Europa featured in Grassroots Motorsports Mid Engine Comparison in 97. (Unfortunately, my wife's original owner 73 Europa was in the garage . . .) I do know that in 86 the Corvettes dominated whatever stock class they were in. They dominated because they were the best at the time. That was probably the first year that a Nationals run group had a retail value of over $1 Million dollars. There were something like 30 stock 84, 85, 86 and maybe 87 Corvettes plus a couple of Porsches, etc. in Stock and as I recall the BP Ladies class with some big bucks prepared Corvettes and maybe Porsches. That was when a Million bucks could buy something. I imagine BS adds up to near that now. As someone said, lets keep the emotions out of the discussions. EVERY popular autocross car has probably been an overdog at one time (at least in the eyes of the people who prefer other cars). Usually the ebb and flow of classing and technology turn the tables a few years later. In their day, all the cars which have won ASP over the years were readily available moderately high priced street legal sports cars. They were not exotics. My wife used to commute hers in San Francisco and drove it all over the West. She even commuted mine when hers was tired years later. Just because no one in their right mind would "daily drive" one these days is not the issue. When I used to drive from the San Jose, CA area to Sacramento (110 miles) in weekend traffic in a 42 inch high Europa, most of the traffic was other cars, not pickups, vans, and SUV's. I could see and be seen. Now I'm afraid to drive a Miata in traffic! One of the neat things about the FF is that I could tow it with a Mustang (or Camaro, or Corvette, or Audi, or Jetta, or . . .). Of course, towing with a 10ft high camper van and blocking the view of the road for even full size vans is nice revenge! IMHO :-) Dick Rasmussen CM 85 85 Van Diemen RF-85 Formula Ford From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 18:42:55 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:30:09 -0500 Subject: re: Solotime Series Eric The first Solotime event this year is at Muskogee, during Memorial Day weekend. That is May 29/30 - the April in Wichita thing was last year!! George Ryan -------------------- Eric Linnhoff wrote: > Hey all, I just panicked cuz I found an old sheet that I printed off > from the Nebraska Regon home page and it shows the first Solotime > event to be at the end of this month, April. > > Is this correct? I thought that the first Solotime Middiv event was at > the end of May. > > Help me out guys. I'm sweatin' bullets here. > -------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 18:52:21 1999 From: Loren Williams To: autox-digest Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:37:08 -0500 Subject: re: Tire Wear Eric said: > Actually for Neons this is not a > lot of negative camber but compared to other camber-challenged cars I > guess that it can be considered a lot. It's a lot of camber for street use, regardless of what kind of car it is. > So........how can I equalize the wear? Drive harder and wear the outer > edge out faster? Less tire pressure to give the outside edge more > "bite"? Turn the tires around on the wheel and wear the "other" inside > edge? What? The camber itself (depending on the tire and your driving style) isn't what's wearing your tires. It's the toe setting that has the front of your car basically in a "constant turn". The combination of the two is a very bad thing as far as tire wear goes. My choice was to give up the toe-out. I still run 1.8 to 2.0 degrees negative camber but with near zero toe, my tires last a lot longer. If you have symmetrical tires, reverse-mounting them is a good trick, too... just don't wait until it's too late to do it. -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 18:53:47 1999 From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net, jhadler@rmi.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:44:26 -0400 Subject: There is no best class I'm going to start off this email by saying sorry to J.Hadler, A/SP and autox.team.net. I am sorry for shooting my mouth off about saying which class is the best like B/SP. Autocrossing in each class is so competitive now a days that you can't really tell which class is better or the best. You can tell which class is quicker by the times they acheive. So that was stupid of me saying that. And Josh I see what you were trying to do with the SP proposal and I am sorry if I was pissing you off. You can't tell which class is better and you can't really tell who's the best driver, because there is so many good drivers in autocrossing. You could possibly tell who is the best driver by how many national championships they won, but there is so many who won them in each class so you really can't tell. So I am sorry if I made anybody angry. This has been a message from Adam Popp's email system! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 18:53:48 1999 From: Adam Popp To: autox@autox.team.net, bthatch@juno.com Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:54:06 -0400 Subject: Re: It's top secret, Ben! Hey Ben,this is Adam P. I'm sorry, but I can't answer your question becuase it is top secret. It's so top secret that even Molder and Scully can't even find out what else is being done to our '86 vette! Besides my brother would kill me! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 19:03:43 1999 From: Jack W To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Tire construction show Hi all, If you have Speedvision, keep your eye out for a special program by the network and BF Goodrich. It is all about the construction of a racing tire. I'm watching this right now and it's pretty interesting. BFG is/was designing new g-force T/A slicks for the SCCA Trans Am series, and did tire testing with those drivers. The shows highlights the various steps of construction, how they test, and the drivers comments. Of course, it's biased towards BFG, but still very interesting and informative.....check it out! Jack Wang 95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 19:08:26 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: quad4fiero@webzone.net, eric10mm@qni.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:58:01 EDT Subject: Re: Solotime Series I got a new Cowboy hat and some spurs! Gonna be there WOOOOOOOOOO! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 19:38:35 1999 From: Jerry Mouton To: "Kelly, Katie" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Old Age Katie, I have complete sympathy with your discovery. I thought I should pass down my long experience in dealing with wrinkles. After worrying about them -- especially the congenital southern "jowl" wrinkles, I finally found something that has worked for me. I grew a beard, and I can heartily recommend this as a solution. Jerry "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > Okay, so I'm standing there in the bathroom of the Oakland Coliseum. My nose > is all red from the wind. But that's not all. What the heck is wrong with my > face? What are those, wrinkles? > > "AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!" > -- Jerry Mouton jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons temps rouler! --> Ecurie Écrevisse Autocross Squad <-- '85 Porsche Carrera '64 Jaguar E Type From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 19:45:11 1999 From: garyk98@airmail.net (garyk) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:22:01 GMT Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site TMS is an impressive site, but like LV and California, they want money to use the site. $2000 -3000 a day. That is why this is the first time SCCA has used it for any event. See ya there. Gary Kramar '89 F440 FM On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:16:17 -0500, you wrote: >If that is what you consider a good site, how about the Texas Motor >Speedway north of Ft Worth. We are having a Natl tour this weekend. Maybe >we can get some pros and cons. If anything, it is a heck of a lot warmer >than kansas in September. >Turbo Toddie >CP96 Turbo Trans Am > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:11:20 1999 From: "Jan Schmidt" To: autox@autox.team.net, lsw@southwind.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:10:28 -0500 Subject: Re: SP Proposal To List Or how about a super-dooper stock for Vipers and any other cars that might be brave enough to compete. Such as the new C-5? I dont own a Viper and probably never will, but I would be very pissed if I did and was told that I couldnt race in stock class! Bill Schmidt CS RX7 KC Region >>> Loren Williams 04/02 9:12 PM >>> Hey T.N, I have to ask the obvious question (being fully aware that the obvious answer is "we have enough classes already"): Why not create Super Street Prepared? We have 8 stock classes, we only have 5 SP classes. All of the existing SP classes are well-subscribed. So, rather than: a) Rearranging the whole mess to bump everyone DOWN to make room for the next generation of supercars (and making those cars that end up at the lower end completely uncompetitive in the process). or b) Telling owners of a few specific models that they just can't play in SP whether they're willing to play by those rules or not. why not c) Create a higher level of SP to put the Lotii, the RX7tt, the Viper, and whatever else is deemed worthy. -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:13:29 1999 From: Miatafun1@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:12:14 EDT Subject: tire trailer I am looking for a tire trailer to pull behind a Z3 roadster. Where can I find one used? New? What are the dimensions? What class trailer hitch will I need? Thanks, miatafun1@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:17:40 1999 From: washburn To: Steve Couture Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:14:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Three rights, One left Steve Couture wrote: > > Well, I just received a "set" of four 205-55-14 Kumhos from the fine folks > at the Tire Rack. Three marked as rights and one marked as a left. There > have been a number of posts here from individuals who received 4 right > tires wondering what the deal was. Now I am aware that the manufacturing > process for these tires had changed such that mounting is no longer side > dependant. There is one part number for both sides. They are all the > same. It is completely safe. Yadda, yadda, yadda. > > What I want to know is where did this one left tire come from? I love it when people get their new "K" tires off the "boat"! :) You got one of the left hand tires that the other guys were missing. I think you guys may need to start a K-Tire support group and sharing pool. ;<) -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:22:48 1999 From: Matt Murray To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:23:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Tire construction show on Speedvision And if he is watching it now, it'll reair at 9:30 pm Pacific (12:30 am eastern) when I'm sitting at the switcher. Pressure (pun intended) is on. :-| Jack W wrote: > Hi all, > If you have Speedvision, keep your eye out for a > special program by the network and BF Goodrich. It is > all about the construction of a racing tire. > I'm watching this right now and it's pretty > interesting. BFG is/was designing new g-force T/A > slicks for the SCCA Trans Am series, and did tire > testing with those drivers. > The shows highlights the various steps of > construction, how they test, and the drivers comments. > Of course, it's biased towards BFG, but still very > interesting and informative.....check it out! > Jack Wang > 95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD -- Matt Murray (heading to work in seven minutes) My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:27:12 1999 From: washburn To: Jeffrey Lloyd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:23:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Wheeley Serwous Qwestion Jeffrey Lloyd wrote: > > Ok for all the Geometery fans on the list > > A tire has an overall diameter of 24.4" > this a tall 245/45/16 on a 16x7" rim > the car has 0 degrees camber > if i pull -1 degrees how much will the top of the tire move in in inches > .21641" measured horizontally. .21644" measured perpendicular to the new angle. That will get you in the ballpark. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:30:36 1999 From: Jim Ourand To: Miatafun1@aol.com Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:29:25 -0700 Subject: Re: tire trailer I have a tire trailer I had built for my V6 Camaro. It holds 6 16" tires, has a 60"x16"x16" steel toolbox, tire locking bar, spare tire, tongue jack, and a bike or luggage storage area. Cost about $1500 to build due to engineering changes, but is available for only $800. JPG's on request. Located in San Diego, CA Miatafun1@aol.com wrote: > > I am looking for a tire trailer to pull behind a Z3 roadster. > Where can I find one used? New? > What are the dimensions? > What class trailer hitch will I need? > > Thanks, > miatafun1@aol.com -- Jim Ourand, Still Looking For A Car, Old Fartz, DCCSD Pro Image Signs & Banner (619) 265-2052 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:32:40 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: Miatafun1@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:32:29 PDT Subject: Re: tire trailer check out HMS Motorsport www.hmsmotorsport.com Great guys and they have all the toys for your Z And they Race a 2.8 Roadster so they are no fakes Hope this helps Jeff > >I am looking for a tire trailer to pull behind a Z3 roadster. >Where can I find one used? New? >What are the dimensions? >What class trailer hitch will I need? > >Thanks, >miatafun1@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:34:48 1999 From: washburn To: Phil Esra Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:31:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Civic disobedience Phil Esra wrote: > > I was watching my co-driver autox my '86 Civic Si on Saturday, and > noticed wisps of steam (I think) exiting the exhaust under > acceleration. Does that mean the headgasket is failing? Or...? It was > at the end of the day; the car was warm but not hot. Any advice would > be very appreciated. > Could it be that it is a 1986 Honda? :) I have an 87 Civic DX that blows a little out the pipe too. (Just a daily driver - no autocrosses, but 1 ice race.) I attribute it to simple ring and valve guide wear, but I don't really know. If you are getting tiny little wisps under AX conditions, you may think about considering yourself fairly lucky. :) -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:37:41 1999 From: washburn To: David Fauth Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:34:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Looking for Neon Trailer hitch David Fauth wrote: > > Does anyone have a used trailer hitch that will fit a 98 Neon that they want > to get rid of?(Want to find something cheaper than the new one from U-Haul) > > Thanks... > > David Fauth > dfauth@net-mgmt.com Hi Dave. I got mine from a local toy's-for-your-truck kinda place. Bolted up real nice. Pretty reasonable, I thought, at around a hundred bucks and it's a draw hitch type. You want me to check on current pricing for you? BTW, I'm not bitter! -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:46:02 1999 From: washburn To: John Lieberman Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:42:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Wheeley Serwous Qwestion John Lieberman wrote: > > >From a purely mathematical standpoint, Jeff, it would be a little more > than 2/10ths of an inch...assuming that a 1-degree change in camber > would not change anything else in your front suspension. > Unfortunately, that's not always the case. > > The math is really quite easy to figure. Just assume that your > 24.4-inch diameter measurement is a vertical line at the inside of > your tire. Now rotate that vertical line through a full 360-degree > circle about its center. The circumference of that circle would be > pi-times-diameter (or two-times-pi-times-radius.) Using a value of > 3.1415926 for pi, and your 24.4 inch value for diameter, you get a > circumference of 76.654859 inches. Divide that by 360 and you get a > value of .2129301 inches for one degree of circumference. > Or.....just use Autocad. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:46:54 1999 From: washburn To: Phil Esra Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:43:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Age Phil Esra wrote: > > Katie Kelly: > > Oh, it's Aaaaanndy McKee, giving her a ride! What is this, is she too > > old > > and tired now to at least WALK back to the autocross! > > > > "Well, Katie, we may be old, but we're not stupid," said Andy. > > Hey Katie, you just got accused of being stupid by a guy who recently > fished his walkie talkie out of a tank of human excrement! How does > that make you feel? > > ;) phil esra I just woke my wife up laughing out load!!!! Thanks! -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 20:49:51 1999 From: Jim Ourand To: Greg Lee Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:48:44 -0700 Subject: Now Greg Lee & NASCAR Fans (was)Possible Nationals Site Well, GREG LEE, I am a NASCAR fan and I don't shop at WalMart at 2am, nor I don't considered myself butt-ugly, nor do I think my wife or my friends who are NASCAR fans are butt-ugly. I won't defined NASCAR in this forum, the numbers speak for themselves (fastest growing sport in America). BTW, GREG LEE, how may spectators do YOU have watch you run thru the pylons, dicing and banging against those little orange cones. Greg Lee wrote: > > Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I > don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same butt > ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ -- Jim Ourand, Ran 1st Autox in 1972, Old Fartz, DCCSD Pro Image Signs & Banner (619) 265-2052 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 21:36:32 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: [rrax-mustang] spliting rotors(long) A list member on the Mustang list and a racer, could use some help with the following. His message is forwarded with his permission. If you can help him, perhaps you could respond directly to him -- thanks! His problem is beyond my ken. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com San Diego, CA 86 SVO 1C -- ESP -----Original Message----- From: Carlo Sparacio To: RRAX-MUSTANGS Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 7:00 PM Subject: [rrax-mustang] spliting rotors(long) >Help! > >What am I doing wrong? I cant seem to get more than about 3-4 track events >out of a set of front rotors on my 95 Cobra. I pretty much only drive the >car to the track, and race it. I have cracked rotors using Hawk HP Plus >pads and Hawk Black pads. I'll buy a new set of Ford rotors, bed the pads >and In about 3-4 events, I have a big crack in one of them. > >It usually starts with a mess of tiny little cracks. (3rd event) and on the >4th event, Im just waiting for them to split. They usually split in the >pits, after my last session. As I drive away to go home, I find the "thump" >is there. > >I make 2 warm up laps, a few medium laps, then hot laps, and then a cool >down lap and then drive around the "back area" for a few miutes to cool >things down. > >I have 3 inch ducting split into 2-2 inch ducts attached right at the center >of the rotor (see pics >http://www.geocities.com/pipeline/dropzone/1916/brakes.html ) > >I have cracked rotors without the ducts too (once) I have been through 3 >sets of rotors since last summer. Usually I crack the right one first >(never cracked the left one yet, but getting lots of tiny cracks in both) > >Im getting a little fade with the HP Plus, and No fade with the Blacks and >Blues. And no fluid boil. (Ford HP) > >Bottom line.. is this problem from heat or cooling? Am I heating them to >fast? Am I cooling them to fast? Can I possibly be cooling them too much? >Or am I just using them to hard? I also heel toe downshift. >Oh..one more clue...the inside of the rotor (that faces the motor) looks >pretty good, no cracks or scoring. The outside seems to crack and score >lightly. > >If you made it this far, your a dedicated mustang racer and reader...I like >that... ;-) > >Help guys, >Carlo Sparacio >SSCC Team Mustang # 62 / 95 SVT Cobra >NWR SCCA Solo2 ESP # 62 >SVT Cobra Racing Online! http://www.geocities.com/pipeline/dropzone/1916 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 22:07:30 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Charles R. Schultz" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:59:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site >> But with enough parking for 165,000 3 toothed, half witted, inbred, >> drunken, left-turn-straight, left-turn-straight fans you'd hope that >> there will be some small lot that's still large enough to make us drool >> and hit third gear occasionally. ;^) >I have more than three teeth. . . ======================== Yes, but are they still OEM or aftermarket? ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 22:31:14 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jim Ourand" , "Greg Lee" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:22:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Now Greg Lee & NASCAR Fans (was)Possible Nationals Site >Well, GREG LEE, I am a NASCAR fan and I don't shop at WalMart at 2am, >nor I don't considered myself butt-ugly, nor do I think my wife or my >friends who are NASCAR fans are butt-ugly. I won't defined NASCAR in >this forum, the numbers speak for themselves (fastest growing sport in >America). BTW, GREG LEE, how may spectators do YOU have watch you run >thru the pylons, dicing and banging against those little orange cones. =========================== Ooh, ooh, ooh, my turn. Umm, ugly I don't know about but do y'all still have your OEM teeth? ;^) As to the spectator issue, well, we SCCA folks don't have a lot of spectators cuz we can actually afford to participate in the racing fun rather than just watch it from the grandstands. :^P Just funnin' ya, I watch NASCAR and BGN races but my favorite ones are on the road courses with left and right turns. ;^) Remember, real race cars turn. Left and right. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 01:19:55 1999 From: rikracer To: "Mohler, Jeff" , Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:22:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Ahhhh, my only question is how do you know what the people who shop at SuperK and Wal-Mart at 2am look like unless you are there with them? And therefore are one of them.................. -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff To: 'Greg Lee' ; lollipop@ricochet.net Cc: Team.Net Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:29 AM Subject: RE: Possible Nationals Site >I was thinking Super-Kmart myself. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greg Lee [SMTP:greg@ThumbsUpRacing.com] >> Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 11:16 AM >> To: lollipop@ricochet.net >> Cc: Team.Net >> Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Pat Kelly >> >> > Greg, >> > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the >> ugliness >> > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have >> > legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify >> the >> > area. >> > --Pat Kelly >> >> Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I >> don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same >> butt >> ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 01:37:44 1999 From: rikracer To: "Kelly, Katie" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Old Age -----Original Message----- From: Kelly, Katie To: autox@autox.team.net ; ba-autox@autox.team.net Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:30 PM Subject: Old Age My favorite bumper sticker (and personal motto): "I may be getting older, but I refuse to grow up" Rick (fifty-something) Brown P.S. The BSP Z-car that sits in my driveway was born in January, 1970. But it's being retired, but it will live on. Most of the good organs are being transplanted to a younger ('72) host. Don't know if that makes you feel better or worse :-)) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 03:05:20 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Team dot net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "Ronin" the movie, chase scenes - Non autox-content Just rented the video because many listers recommended it for the car chases. I'd rate the chases 8/10. Takes place in France. But couldn't figure out why the chased BMW 3 or 5 series when flashing its high beams in daylight (all headlights off), only the inside 2 headlights (H-1's)of the 4 headlight system flash. When you flash to pass don't all 4 headlights light, at least they do on my Scirocco Mark 1. -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 05:48:21 1999 From: John Galligan To: Matt Murray Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 06:47:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire construction show on Speedvision Matt; Since i am now reading this at 7A.M. CDT, will it be on later this week? Thanks. Couldn't get the info on the site last night. John G. Matt Murray wrote: > And if he is watching it now, it'll reair at 9:30 pm Pacific > (12:30 am eastern) when I'm sitting at the switcher. > Pressure (pun intended) is on. :-| > > Jack W wrote: > > > Hi all, > > If you have Speedvision, keep your eye out for a > > special program by the network and BF Goodrich. It is > > all about the construction of a racing tire. > > I'm watching this right now and it's pretty > > interesting. BFG is/was designing new g-force T/A > > slicks for the SCCA Trans Am series, and did tire > > testing with those drivers. > > The shows highlights the various steps of > > construction, how they test, and the drivers comments. > > Of course, it's biased towards BFG, but still very > > interesting and informative.....check it out! > > Jack Wang > > 95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD > > -- > Matt Murray (heading to work in seven minutes) > > My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net > It was mattm@nassau.cv.net > Please note the change in your address books > > As always, work is: > mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com -- John Galligan galligan@gulftel.com SCCA-Gulf Coast Region Cavalier Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 06:09:23 1999 From: Matt Murray To: John Galligan , Teamdotnet Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:10:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Tire construction show on Speedvision Go here, and you can view the schedules. http://www.speedvision.com/schedules/byday/Eastern/19990406.html BTW, I get in and find out the show arrived REAL late. It ended up being posted on three reels for the 8:30 airing. The in-house producer also gave the wrong finish time so the operator,with only :10 warning, rolled into the next show :55 early, and added a spot. So the five seconds of black at the end of the show, wasn't supposed to be there. Fortunately, the 12:30 airing was copied to a single reel. :-) John Galligan wrote: > Matt; Since i am now reading this at 7A.M. CDT, will it be on later > this week? Thanks. > Couldn't get the info on the site last night. > John G. -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 06:24:45 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Adam Popp Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 07:20:15 -0500 Subject: Re: There is no best class Yeah there is, It's C-Mod. Mike(Just a little biased)B. TLS#1 Adam Popp wrote: > I'm going to start off this email by saying sorry to J.Hadler, A/SP and > autox.team.net. I am sorry for shooting my mouth off about saying which > class is the best like B/SP. Autocrossing in each class is so > competitive now a days that you can't really tell which class is better > or the best. You can tell which class is quicker by the times they > acheive. So that was stupid of me saying that. And Josh I see what you > were trying to do with the SP proposal and I am sorry if I was pissing > you off. > You can't tell which class is better and you can't really tell who's > the best driver, because there is so many good drivers in autocrossing. > You could possibly tell who is the best driver by how many national > championships they won, but there is so many who won them in each class > so you really can't tell. So I am sorry if I made anybody angry. This > has been a message from Adam Popp's email system! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 06:26:47 1999 From: washburn To: Brent DeWitt Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 07:23:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Wheeley Serwous Qwestion Brent DeWitt wrote: > Let's see here: > > A $3000 software package versus a $10 hand held calculator (ok, mine's a > $100+ dollar HP). Tough choice there guy! ;} Yeah, but I had more fun! :-P -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 06:34:05 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: rikracer Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 07:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site Hey Greg A few more comments like the Super-K-Mart at 2am remark an you will qualify for membership in the "Team". Keep it up your on your way! Mike B. TLS#1 rikracer wrote: > Ahhhh, my only question is how do you know what the people who shop at > SuperK and Wal-Mart at 2am look like unless you are there with them? And > therefore are one of them.................. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff > To: 'Greg Lee' ; lollipop@ricochet.net > > Cc: Team.Net > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:29 AM > Subject: RE: Possible Nationals Site > > >I was thinking Super-Kmart myself. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Greg Lee [SMTP:greg@ThumbsUpRacing.com] > >> Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 11:16 AM > >> To: lollipop@ricochet.net > >> Cc: Team.Net > >> Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Pat Kelly > >> > >> > Greg, > >> > Someone will want to plant trees and shrubs to take away from the > >> ugliness > >> > of a parking lot, I betcha. In fact, some places in the country have > >> > legislation that any new parking lots must have trees, etc. to beautify > >> the > >> > area. > >> > --Pat Kelly > >> > >> Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I > >> don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same > >> butt > >> ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. > Ugh............ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:08:21 1999 From: KWall73108@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:07:51 EDT Subject: suspension setup books and programs Looking for recommendations on the latest in books and programs for suspension setup and where to buy them, also, anyone with experience in setting up Griffiths. Kevin Wallace From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:08:58 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "Jim Ourand" , "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:07:15 -0500 Subject: Re: NASCAR Fans (was)Possible Nationals Site Lighten up dude! The NASCAR & Wal-Mart analogy have been popular ones in the sports car arena for a long time. Personally, I have the greatest respect for ANYONE who can earn a living, even millions, doing something they love like driving a race car, or twisting wrenches. If I had the talent, I'd be right in there with 'em! And BTW Eric L. the left turn, go straight, turn left, go straight is a lot harder than you think. Just try it sometime. Yes, I shop at Wal-Mart (during NORMAL business hours), but I don't go to NASCAR Winston Cup races anymore because I think the cars are too far removed from reality. I do go to the local dirt and short tracks on occasion. I find that I am the worlds worst spectator. I'd rather do it than watch someone else do it. Race that is.... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:11:11 1999 From: "Howard, Brent" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:13:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Three rights, One left [Digest lurk mode off] >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:12:46 -0700 (PDT) >From: Steve Couture >Subject: Three rights, One left >Well, I just received a "set" of four 205-55-14 Kumhos from the fine folks >at the Tire Rack. Three marked as rights and one marked as a left. I got three lefts and a right last year, want to trade? ;) >And can anyone provide a little assistance with pressure settings for >these tires on a Neon ACR? I generally ran in the 37-38# range in front and 28# in the rear last year on my E-Stock Neon Sport Sedan, asphalt only. Had -3 degrees of camber and 1/8th inch total toe out on the fronts. I found the best pressure guideline to be the arrows on the sidewall. The tires seemed to grip best if they were rolling just to the top of the arrows. Just my $.02. [Digest lurk mode back on] Brent Howard '95 Neon Sport Sedan #79 ES, FLRSCCA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:28:31 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: "Kelly, Katie" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:23:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Age Gosh kids, Just reading this gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over. Isn't that Katie something. I'll have a double Geritol on the rocks please! Mike B.TLS#1 "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > Okay, so I'm standing there in the bathroom of the Oakland Coliseum. My nose > is all red from the wind. But that's not all. What the heck is wrong with my > face? What are those, wrinkles? > > "AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!" > > Teresa Lommatzsch just happened to be in there as I was screaming. > > "I don't know, Katie. It just hit me the other day, 'I'm not one of the > *kids* anymore.'" > > It's true. Teresa and I were a couple of those autocross babies. Turns out, > we BOTH grew up in the Pleasanton Fairgrounds parking lot, but on alternate > weekends (her parents were with PCA, and mine with SCCA). > > Now Teresa owns her own house, and TWO autocross cars. Well, good, she isn't > THAT grown up yet. > > Back to my face. I have been wearing this Clinique sunscreen DAILY. It's not > stopping the wrinkles. Never mind the wrinkles. I don't look like a teenager > anymore, and this is REALLY bothering me. > > So, anyway, we stood there and gloomily faced our reality: we're NOT the > kids anymore. Oh my gosh. I might be thirty in a very short amount of time, > like maybe within this century, but possibly, remotely, much later, I am not > saying. We have real jobs and responsibilities, and people rely on US. This > sucks. Now the little superstars are Brianne Mitchell, Catherine Liao, Tony > Collicchio, Erick Van Waganen, and whoah, Derek HEAD. What is he, 12? Good > gawd, we're old. > > In fact, I went out with a few of these upstarts after attending a car show > in San Francisco. We had gone out for pizza, and I said, "Okay, who's up for > going to a bar?" > > "Uh, there's just one problem," said Darren Maddams. "We're all under 21?" > > NOOOOO! > > WE used to be the wonderkids. It was Teresa, me, Shauna, Brian Hobaugh, Vic > Sias, I dunno, so many of us. Everyone was just amazed that these teenagers > knew how to drive. Now WE'RE the grown-ups, and they EXPECT us to know how > to drive. And they EXPECT us to do all these other grown-up things, like > chair events, and even worse, ACT like responsible adults. > > Yes, you SHOULD be troubled by this. > > (On a side note, look who we're trying to impress. Autocrossers. It could be > worse.) > > So, we left the rest room in a blue funk out into the wind and hail. I was > determined to hold on to my youth, so I decided to make a run for it. We all > know that young people just have too much energy, and darn it, I may be > nearly almost thirty within the next several months of even years, but I > FEEL like I'm twelve, and I FEEL like doing windsprints and yes, even > cartwheels! > > Teresa took her time, and what's this? Who's this waiting in her Porsche? > Oh, it's Aaaaanndy McKee, giving her a ride! What is this, is she too old > and tired now to at least WALK back to the autocross! > > "Well, Katie, we may be old, but we're not stupid," said Andy. > > Katie Kelly > Technical Publications > SPSS Bay Area > (510)412-2812 > mailto:katiek@spss.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Guilt slows your metabolism. > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:29:47 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "rikracer" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:28:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible Nationals Site ---------snip--------- Ahhhh, my only question is how do you know what the people who shop at SuperK and Wal-Mart at 2am look like unless you are there with them? And therefore are one of them.................. ------------------------- Well, ah, you see, ah, when I work on my car 'till the wee hours, ah, ah, and ah, I see my butt ugly neighbors load up the butt ugly kids in the butt ugly old van with a "3" and a "24" on the back window and the butt ugly kids are yelling, "Yippee, we're goin' to Wal-Mart!" and they run over the butt ugly dog sleepin' behind the front tire. That's it. That's the ONLY way I know 'bout these things. Yea, that's how I know. That and that time when I needed one more pint of gear dope to finish the job and just "picked up a few thangs whist I was there". From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:38:54 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Greg Lee" , "Jim Ourand" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:40:29 -0500 Subject: Re: NASCAR Fans (was)Possible Nationals Site >And BTW Eric L. the left turn, go straight, turn left, go straight is a lot >harder than you think. Just try it sometime. ==================== BTDT, myself and 4 friends raced mini-sprints in high school. It took every penny we could beg, borrow or steal to keep it running. No, we never won and rarely ever actually finished a race due to either mechanical problems or more commonly, rollovers. ;^) >Yes, I shop at Wal-Mart (during NORMAL business hours), but I don't go to >NASCAR Winston Cup races anymore because I think the cars are too far >removed from reality. I do go to the local dirt and short tracks on >occasion. I find that I am the worlds worst spectator. I'd rather do it >than watch someone else do it. Race that is.... =========================== Wal-Mart's cool. They've got good prices on spark plugs and oil. Not to mention good beer, cheap. ;^) The cheap entry fees and relative inexpensiveness of autocrossing, and to a point club (road) racing, are one of the main attractions of the SCCA. It's these qualities that make it possible for spectators to be able to participate instead of just sitting in the grandstands and watching someone else drive a half-million dollar car and wreck it every other week. THAT is what makes SCCA the best racing organization in the world. IMHO. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:44:12 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Kelly, Katie" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:47:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Old Age >So, we left the rest room in a blue funk out into the wind and hail. I was >determined to hold on to my youth, so I decided to make a run for it. We all >know that young people just have too much energy, and darn it, I may be >nearly almost thirty within the next several months of even years, but I >FEEL like I'm twelve, and I FEEL like doing windsprints and yes, even >cartwheels! "What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish sometimes?" - The Doctor, "Dr. Who" I live by this. I don't feel the slightest bit old at 25, not far behind you! Sure, my hair is ever so slightly starting to migrate an infinitesimal distance backward from its original position. But that's only because I wear it long (halfway down my back), and gravity is having an effect on it after wearing it this way for a few years. Remember the thrill you got when you were a little kid and rode your bike as fast as your little legs would carry you down the driveway? Well, the driveway is now a cone filled parking lot, slightly more technical and twisty; the legs are still pushing pedals, though they're a bit longer and there are three pedals to work with; and the bike is a well tuned, high performance automobile instead of a $50 Sears bike with training wheels; but the concept is exactly the same. And that, my friend, is why people like us may physically age, but we'll NEVER grow old. :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:51:32 1999 From: Shawn Mahaney To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:50:56 -0500 Subject: tire pyrometer (from: inside edge...) > >And Mike, I don't need a pyrometer, I have two hands that can feel the >heat on the tires just fine. From everything that I've read we > For those of us without Eric's magic calibrated hands, we still think a tire pyrometer is about the best value in go-fast tools there is, one which pays for itself quickly by helping get the most out of every tire. ----------------------------------------_____----------------- Shawn Mahaney / (=) \ Exonero Project Engineer __ ,=_.-._=. __ EKK, Inc., Walled Lake, MI | |---|<| |>|---| | Ergo http://ic.net/~ekk | | \ \ / / | | (248)-624-9957 |__|-----\<\_/>/-----|__| Zoom -------------------------------------------------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 07:55:13 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Wes Shew" , "Team dot net" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: "Ronin," high beams - More non-autox content >Just rented the video because many listers recommended it for the car >chases. I'd rate the chases 8/10. Takes place in France. But couldn't >figure out why the chased BMW 3 or 5 series when flashing its high beams >in daylight (all headlights off), only the inside 2 headlights (H-1's)of >the 4 headlight system flash. When you flash to pass don't all 4 >headlights light, at least they do on my Scirocco Mark 1. Excellent movie - well, to be more specific, excellent if you see it specifically for the car chases. To me, it was basically some cool chases looking for a movie to give them a reason to exist. :) As for the beautiful M5 they destroyed, that's actually how the European versions are designed. The low beams are only low beams, and stay on just as they are when you turn on the high beams. In the U.S. the "low beams" also have a high beam filament. That, plus the inner high beams all turn on together when you hit the brights in a U.S. spec car. But the Euro versions only have the low beam filament in the low beam. So only the inner lights flashing was perfectly in place for a Euro spec M5. How do I know all this? I wish I had an M5, but a lot of Euro versions of my 320i (mostly 6 cylinder versions - all we ever officially got was the 4 in my car) made it over to the States on the greymarket. Some were modified for various U.S. specs, some weren't, and there's a lot of discussion among enthusiasts of these cars as to how you can tell a Euro car from a U.S. one. This is one way. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 08:09:33 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Justin Hughes'" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:07:18 -0500 Subject: RE: Old Age "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing." "It's never too late for a happy childhood." I'm not sure who originally said those, but I believe them. I'm 38 and still don't know what I want to do when I grow up. As for the bike analogy... I still ride bikes, road and off road. When I road bike I'm serious, when I'm off road I'm playing. Playing with fast cars is totally different, it's what I was fantasizing about when I road my bike at age 8! Tom Gentry Life is too short to grow up! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 08:12:42 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Shawn Mahaney" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:14:21 -0500 Subject: Re: tire pyrometer (from: inside edge...) >>And Mike, I don't need a pyrometer, I have two hands that can feel the >>heat on the tires just fine. From everything that I've read we >> > >For those of us without Eric's magic calibrated hands, we still think >a tire pyrometer is about the best value in go-fast tools there is, >one which pays for itself quickly by helping get the most out of >every tire. ======================== HEY!!!!! Which one of my ho's spilled the beans about my majic hands? ;^) Seriously though, are there any inexpensive pyrometers out there that are reasonably accurate? It couldn't possible hurt. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 08:21:07 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Greg Lee" , "Jim Ourand" , Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:13 -0600 Subject: Re: NASCAR Fans (was)Possible Nationals Site >And BTW Eric L. the left turn, go straight, turn left, go straight is a lot >harder than you think. Just try it sometime. I've tried it and after a couple lefts my brain starts telling me there HAS to be a right in there somewhere and my rythym gets messed up! It justs goes to show that one good left deserves a right. Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:03:57 1999 From: "Mari L. Clements" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:07:07 -0400 Subject: RE: Old Age "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > Okay, so I'm standing there in the bathroom of the Oakland Coliseum. My >nose is all red from the wind. But that's not all. What the heck is wrong >with my face? What are those, wrinkles? > > "AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!" See the nice lady at the Clinique counter. Ask her for Turnaround Cream. But be prepared--Clarifying Lotion feels like water compared to this stuff. It also costs like water, comparatively. For those of you who only do costs in terms of race tires--Clarifying Lotion = 1/15 a race tire. Turnaround Cream = 1/5 race tire. [Ooh. I hope Eric didn't read that.] 33 in less than 2 weeks, mlc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:12:10 1999 From: JD_Kemp@notes.ymp.gov To: kkelly@spss.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:11:44 -0700 Subject: Old Age Katie: "Wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." --Jimmie Buffett JD Kemp (My CAR is older than my competitior!) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:27:24 1999 From: LOTUSRCN@aol.com To: mlc4@psu.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:19:55 EDT Subject: Re: Old Age (Katie K) In a message dated 4/6/99 10:06:14 AM EST, mlc4@psu.edu writes: << See the nice lady at the Clinique counter. Ask her for Turnaround Cream. >> HEY Katie... Hurry on down to your local Macy's , Clinique is now giving aaway a free GIFT...... More Bang for your BUCK... No matter what you do on the outside, you will always be young on the inside.. Robbie Robinson SCCA-SDR SOLO II Committee Chairman From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:32:53 1999 From: Alek Tziortzis To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:32:34 -0500 Subject: nationals site I would venture to guess that the new NASCAR track parking lot will be asphalt (its cheaper). I believe Solo II rules specifies concrete. I, personally, want concrete. Alex 1998 Z28 1LE Fstock From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:34:02 1999 From: Craig Blome To: "Mari L. Clements" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: Old Age --- "Mari L. Clements" wrote: > For those of you who only do costs > in terms of race tires--Clarifying Lotion = 1/15 a > race tire. Turnaround > Cream = 1/5 race tire. [Ooh. I hope Eric didn't > read that.] > Yes, but are they wrinkle wall tires? :) Craig B. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:46:53 1999 From: LOTUSRCN@aol.com To: alextz@comm.mot.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:43:21 EDT Subject: Re: nationals site In a message dated 4/6/99 10:34:11 AM EST, alextz@comm.mot.com writes: << I would venture to guess that the new NASCAR track parking lot will be asphalt (its cheaper). I believe Solo II rules specifies concrete. I, personally, want concrete. >> I don't know what rule book you have been reading... It is not in mine. Robbie Robinson SCCA-SDR SOLO II Committee Chairman From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:48:03 1999 From: "Mari L. Clements" To: "Craig Blome" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:51:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Old Age >> For those of you who only do costs >> in terms of race tires--Clarifying Lotion = 1/15 a >> race tire. Turnaround >> Cream = 1/5 race tire. [Ooh. I hope Eric didn't >> read that.] > >Yes, but are they wrinkle wall tires? :) No way! Wrinkles are what we want to *avoid*! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:52:33 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:50:12 -0500 Subject: Old Age You 30-something "old" folks have the following to look forward to: Having to take off your glasses to see what you're working on under the race car because, even though you're nearsighted, you're rapidly becoming farsighted as well, then spending fifteen minutes looking for your f***ing glasses because you have CRS (Can't Remember Shit) and finally finding them because you stepped on them, then trying to put the lens you knocked out back in with your fingers covered with gearlube or brake fluid and then having to wipe them off with a shop rag so you can see well enough (barely) to wash your hands, which you've gotta do so you can get your glasses completely reassembled and clean again. So you can see to get the tool you forgot to bring with you in the first place and get back under the car.... Being stove up for two days because you had to do a clutch job or a head gasket. Hearing your knees or your hips or your neck when you move. Or, better yet, having other people hear them. Getting a hangover from two (OK, maybe three ;<) beers. Having a hangover last more than a day. Having to put sunscreen on top of your head (and wearing a big hat, too) because there's not enough hair left up there to keep you from getting burned. Telling your kids not to do the stuff you used to love doing when you were their age. Jay "well, it's not that bad if you can laugh at it" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:54:10 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:56:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Old Age >>> For those of you who only do costs >>> in terms of race tires--Clarifying Lotion = 1/15 a >>> race tire. Turnaround >>> Cream = 1/5 race tire. [Ooh. I hope Eric didn't >>> read that.] >> >>Yes, but are they wrinkle wall tires? :) > >No way! Wrinkles are what we want to *avoid*! I thought cones were what we want to avoid... :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:55:25 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:49:16 -0500 Subject: Headers for Ford Trucks Anyone know of a good source for headers for a 95 F-350 with a 460 cid gas engine. Thanks Rob From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 09:58:09 1999 From: Alek Tziortzis To: LOTUSRCN@aol.com Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:57:48 -0500 Subject: Re: nationals site LOTUSRCN@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/6/99 10:34:11 AM EST, alextz@comm.mot.com writes: > > << I would venture to guess that the new NASCAR track > parking lot will be asphalt (its cheaper). I believe Solo II rules > specifies concrete. I, personally, want concrete. >> > > I don't know what rule book you have been reading... It is not in > mine. > > Robbie Robinson > SCCA-SDR SOLO II > Committee Chairman I thought I read it somewhere (fastrack supplementals?) back when they signed the contract in 1996 to hold Nationals at Topeka through year 2000. either way, the national championships should be held on concrete, in my opinion. -- ******************************************************************** Alex Tziortzis Senior Engineer Wireless Access Technology Research Motorola Labs alextz@comm.mot.com ******************************************************************** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 10:02:59 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:06:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Old Age >You 30-something "old" folks have the following to look forward >to: > >Having to take off your glasses to see what you're working on >under the race car because, even though you're nearsighted, >you're rapidly becoming farsighted as well, then spending >fifteen minutes looking for your f***ing glasses because you have >CRS (Can't Remember Shit) and finally finding them because you >stepped on them, then trying to put the lens you knocked out back >in with your fingers covered with gearlube or brake fluid and >then having to wipe them off with a shop rag so you can see well >enough (barely) to wash your hands, which you've gotta do so you >can get your glasses completely reassembled and clean again. So >you can see to get the tool you forgot to bring with you in the >first place and get back under the car.... Although I have not had this entire combination of events happen simultaneously, I've had several of them occur at once. I'm quite blind without my glasses, and do take them off for close-up work, then can't find them either because of CRS or ADD - the two go hand in hand. That also accounts for MANY trips up and down the stairs to get all the tools, parts, etc. I forgot. >Being stove up for two days because you had to do a clutch job or >a head gasket. That I haven't experienced yet. I'm sure it's just a matter of time with my old BMW with 212k miles. >Hearing your knees or your hips or your neck when you move. Or, >better yet, having other people hear them. I'm not that bad, but my 22 year old girlfriend is. Drives me crazy! >Getting a hangover from two (OK, maybe three ;<) beers. Having a >hangover last more than a day. I rarely get hangovers, but anything more than one beer gets me loopy. And when I do get hangovers, they're nasty! >Having to put sunscreen on top of your head (and wearing a big >hat, too) because there's not enough hair left up there to keep >you from getting burned. Being a long haired hippie freak, I don't have that problem yet... >Telling your kids not to do the stuff you used to love doing when >you were their age. No kids, so no problem. :) - Justin, not feeling at all old at 25 cuz, well, I'm not! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 10:20:43 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:19:45 EDT Subject: Re: NASCAR Fans (was)Possible Nationals Site In a message dated 4/6/99 9:42:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eric10mm@qni.com writes: << SCCA the best racing organization in the world. >> Yeah, we all love what they've done with the Trans Am series. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 10:28:21 1999 From: "Nat'lAutoSportAssoc- VA-Region" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:26:02 -0400 Subject: 4/11 autoxes near DC? Hey all, Any auto-xes this weekend within a few hours of the Washington DC area, besides the full MWCSCC one at Ft Meade, MD and the cancelled SCCA-ODR one at Ft Monroe in Hampton, VA? Also, anybody out there been to a Philly Region SCCA event at Nazareth? Thoughts on course speed, size, etc? Is it worth a 4 hour drive or not? Thanks in advance, Jon Felton, Director NASA Virginia Region next auto-x: April 18 @ VA Motorsports Park, Petersburg, VA http://am.net/nasa (804) 573-NASA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 10:39:48 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Alek Tziortzis Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:24:09 -0700 Subject: Re: nationals site Alek, Okay, I bite. What page in the rule book states that? In fact, I didnt' notice a section that referred to "pavement." Since the events at Dallas, Salina, and now Topeka, have all been on concrete, it would seem that only "custom" requires concrete. --Pat Kelly Alek Tziortzis wrote: > I would venture to guess that the new NASCAR track > parking lot will be asphalt (its cheaper). I believe Solo II rules > specifies concrete. I, personally, want concrete. > > Alex > 1998 Z28 1LE > Fstock From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 10:40:48 1999 From: Lindsay Wilson To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:32:55 -0600 Subject: Looking for a Mustang (car) $50 cash reward to the individual providing the lead which results in purchase. I am looking for a 1989 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 V8. 5 speed manual transmission 5.0 liter V8 Red exterior (preferred color, others considered.) Gray cloth interior ( other colors considered.) Car should be 'mostly' original and preferably one owner with all maintenance records. NO major crash damage (minor dings, dents and scratches OK.) NO sunroof please. NO GT40 heads. NO Vortec superchargers. I am willing to travel for the right car. FYI, this will be a daily driver and ESP project. I've decided I want to drive with the throttle again. :) Thanks for the help, Lindsay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 10:45:35 1999 From: Randy Chase To: "Mari L. Clements" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:48:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Old Age "Mari L. Clements" wrote: > > >> For those of you who only do costs > >> in terms of race tires--Clarifying Lotion = 1/15 a > >> race tire. Turnaround > >> Cream = 1/5 race tire. [Ooh. I hope Eric didn't > >> read that.] > > > >Yes, but are they wrinkle wall tires? :) > > No way! Wrinkles are what we want to *avoid*! You folks to think a bit more "out of the box".... Need to restore a face to it's youthfulness? Do you know Rocky Entriken? Formula V Traction Treatment...turn your face back into a gumball.. $38.00 per gallon shipped, beats Clinique hands down....and you fit right in at Walmart at 2:00am...and with the money you saved since you don't need perfume/cologne, you can now attend that Nascar event. 8-) WARNING: If you miss the point of the humor and really use this..it's not my fault. For external use only. Do not apply to broken skin. In fact, do not apply to any skin. In case of stupidity, cease use immediately. Randy Chase "who thinks it's sadly amusing that anyone who is only 25 (Justin) is proclaming he is not old yet. 8) You just wait. After 40 it's patch, patch, patch...I am starting to feel like the concrete at Topeka. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 11:08:41 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:12:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Eric's Magic Hands.... ;-) One can only wonder at the unique applications for these wonderous hands - say, on a first date? He would KNOW when the gal was 'ready'......... ;-) Scott Meyers I use a pyrometer - really irritates the wife, says its too cold and tickles :-( From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 11:09:49 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: jemitchell@compuserve.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:36:01 EDT Subject: Re: Old Age In a message dated 4/6/99 11:56:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: << Getting a hangover from two (OK, maybe three ;<) beers. >> I'm only mid-twenties and that happens to me...looks like i'm in for fun in the next few (many) years... Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX aka Type R Hunter http://sac.uky.edu/~drledf0 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 11:15:20 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:08:07 -0400 Subject: Atlanta gears up for SEDIV Atlanta Region SCCA will be having two consecutive events (April 18 & April 25) gearing up for the SEDIV Divisional event on May 1-2. All events will be held in the parking lot at Atlanta Motor Speedway. Our out-of-town guests and Novices are allowed to run either morning or afternoon sessions. You may even register twice and get twice as many runs and run both sessions! (Of course you will have to work twice, also). Atlanta Region members in the points race for their classes may only enter twice IF their class runs in the morning session. PRE-REGISTER at the Atlanta Region SCCA Website at: and jump to the registration page PRE-REGISTER for the Divisional at: 1999 NOPI Solo II Series Schedule Run/work heats (includes corresponding ladies' classes). Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, BP, CP, EP, DP, KMJr., KM Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, The following run/work schedule will be followed throughout the season: April 18 Points #2: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 11:29:21 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:26:23 -0500 Subject: Re: nationals site ----- Original Message ----- From: Alek Tziortzis > I would venture to guess that the new NASCAR track > parking lot will be asphalt (its cheaper). I believe Solo II rules > specifies concrete. I, personally, want concrete. Of course there is always gravel (its a bunch cheaper) and the ever popular grass (cheaper still). I think the Nationals surface and the total experience should be representative of what folks do every weekend. I'd guess that surfaces are about evenly split between concrete and asphalt. I'd love to see one day on concrete and one on asphalt, but that just ain't likely. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 11:58:18 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:58:12 PDT Subject: thanks now I need a spacer thanks everyone for the allignment changess it appears that I'll need 1/4 inch spacers to fit my R-tires on the car now with the new allignment settings, Where can I find HubCentric 1/4 inch spacers? to fit BMW wheels? Thanks Jeff From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 12:06:53 1999 From: "Mark J. Hirt" To: Alek Tziortzis Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:06:34 -0500 Subject: Re: nationals site Alek Tziortzis wrote: > I would venture to guess that the new NASCAR track > parking lot will be asphalt (its cheaper). I would venture to guess the lot will be grass. Why pave (or even gravel) a lot that will be used ONCE or twice a year? The "New" Route 66 NASCAR Oval parking lot looks to be all grass. Autocross rentals would never pay for the paving expense. -- Mark J. Hirt Sun Solaris 2.X systems administrator nxracer@mediaone.net http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer http://www.aero-rexnord.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 12:08:45 1999 From: MBStevens1@aol.com To: ktm@unify.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:31:44 EDT Subject: Re: 240SX questions The 240SX came in two trim levels, base and SE. The SE was the sport variant with the better suspension (revised springs and dampers, stiffer anti-roll bars, and uprated wheels and tires) and the viscous LSD. The "line-item" options for the base model were mostly comfort and convenience items, so you'll need to find an SE to get these things. No experience with 3-channel ABS on the 240 or anything else. Good luck! Mike Stevens ES Altima SE ---------- Original Message ---------- Hi all, I've been looking at the 1991-1993 Nissan 240sx and hope that some of you knowledgeable folks might have information (or know where to find it :-) as to the options/packages. In particular: - As I understand it, there was a sport package - any idea what that included? - there was also a viscious limited slip - was that a line item option, or part of a package? How well does it work? I've driven two 240sx's before and wheelspin is indeed an issue, so this might be useful. - The ABS was a three channel system - how good/bad is it? Anything to look for/look out for? Thanks in advance! Kevin McCormick From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 12:16:09 1999 From: Jefrem Iwaniw To: Jeffrey Lloyd Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:17:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: thanks now I need a spacer Contact H&R @ 1-888-827-8881.... -jef On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Jeffrey Lloyd wrote: > Where can I find HubCentric 1/4 inch spacers? > to fit BMW wheels? > > Thanks > Jeff > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 12:21:03 1999 From: Lloyd Loring To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:11:28 -0500 Subject: ST PAX numbers to come I am posting this message for Dave Beck: Several have inquired about the availability of PAX Index numbers for the current SCCA Street Touring classes. At present, we have insufficient data to generate accurate numbers. We realize the need for these by several clubs and expect to be able to publish numbers by mid-summer. Dave Beck From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 12:45:47 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:45:23 -0400 Subject: We have a Tow Vehicle! After much searching, weeping, and gnashing of teeth, we finally located and purchased a tow vehicle. My wife is now the proud owner of a 1990 GMC Suburban SLE. We found one with the 5.7l FI mouse, factory tow package, a great big monster hitch, brake controller, no body rust, and a 12 month warranty - 120k km on it, for less than $10k CAN. Happiness reigns supreme in the Grant household. I get something that can tow the race car, she gets her Big Ass Truck. The Talon will never haul groceries again! :) Thanks to all those that offered advice on tow vehicles, purchasing of. Now some questions: 1) I may be a convert to the Church of Force-Fed Riceburners, but I cut my teeth on Chev 350s. There's something just plain *wrong* about a mouse with cast-iron exhaust manifolds and intake manifolds. I think Edelbrock makes a Performer for that 2bbl throttle body injection system, and I'm sure someone makes headers that fit the 'burban.... Is there any point to hot-rodding a tow truck? Is the extra 25 HP and 30lb weight reduction worth it on a vehicle that weighs just slightly less than an Essex class carrier? What are the best modifications that people have made to their tow trucks? 2) Has anybody got any leads on good camping areas (with showers and abolution facilities) near Ft. Myers, Peru, Harrisburg, and Richmond? There's a lot of money to be saved by not using hotels (The place we used in Ft Myers was $100 a night - yow!) and the back of the 'burban is conducive to camping, but the better half insists on having access to running water. :) 3) Now that we're charter members of the Tow Truck Club, what advice can people offer about making our lives easier? Are there any hard knocks you can share? DG (Anybody else notice the increased number of Talon/Eclipse drivers hanging out here? :) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 12:47:43 1999 From: "Mark J. Hirt" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:47:31 -0500 Subject: Re: ST PAX numbers to come > At present, we have insufficient data to generate accurate numbers. We > realize the need for these by several clubs and expect to be able to > publish numbers by mid-summer. > > Dave Beck That will be helpfull. What if all the fast ST drivers sandbag. Keep on mind the RTP numbers ST were released before the season but then again RTP numbers are based on more than just Nationals results. -- Mark J. Hirt Sun Solaris 2.X systems administrator nxracer@mediaone.net http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer http://www.aero-rexnord.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 12:50:47 1999 From: Rex Tener To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:10:01 -0700 Subject: Re: thanks now I need a spacer At 10:58 AM 4/6/99 PDT, Jeffrey Lloyd wrote: >thanks everyone for the allignment changess it appears that I'll need >1/4 inch spacers to fit my R-tires on the car now with the new >allignment settings, Where can I find HubCentric 1/4 inch spacers? >to fit BMW wheels? Hi Jeff, Check out Turner Motorsport at: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/catalog/wheels.htm These are what I have been using on my '95 M3 for the last year. They are a perfect fit and a quality part. Rex Tener rex@marimba.com '95 BMW M3 #139 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 13:13:00 1999 From: Alan Dahl To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:14:05 -0700 Subject: Atwater ProSolo hotels? I'm wondering what the headquarters hotel for the Atwater ProSolo will be. I remember there is a place that we stayed at 2 years ago but I don't remember the name except that it is right next to the railroad tracks. Is this going to be it again? Are there any better reasonably-priced places to stay now, I was not too impressed with the hotels in Atwater and Merced that I've seen but perhaps things have changed in the last two years? - Alan Dahl P.S. Anyone looking for a roommate? ---------- ___ ____ Alan Dahl | home: adahl@eskimo.com /_ / / / Federal Way, WA, USA | work: Alan.Dahl@PSS.boeing.com / / _/__/ ---------------- http://www.eskimo.com/~adahl ------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 13:13:23 1999 From: "Jeff Cawthorne" To: "team.net" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:11:17 -0700 Subject: Re: 240SX questions Quite incorrect, the SE didn't automatically come with the sport suspension. You do have to get the SE/LE to get the sport suspension. The LSD came when you got ABS, the Sport suspension was part of the HICAS, rear steer. You could also get these things on the LE model which came with the sunroof and leather interior. The big question is whether or not the rear steer is worth its weight in order to get the sport suspension. I have been told the sport suspension is about 15-20% stiffer with bigger sway bars and stiffer springs. From what I have found, if it has the Hicas then it has ABS, they usually came together, but I am not positive. The 240 owners that I talked to said that to get the LSD and ABS you had to get the Hicas, eventhough it shows them as separate order items. Kevin, if you want a couple of articles I could fax them to you. They are from 91-92 when the new motor was put in them. I looked at getting a 240 for DS just a few months ago. I would do really well with one on our large lots, but the Neons would kick a 240's butt anywhere else. If they move the car to ES, then I might be very tempted to get a 240. Let me know if you have a fax machine and I will fax the articles that I have. Jeff Cawthorne San Diego 92 Corvette SS >The 240SX came in two trim levels, base and SE. The SE was the sport variant >with the better suspension (revised springs and dampers, stiffer anti-roll >bars, and uprated wheels and tires) and the viscous LSD. The "line-item" >options for the base model were mostly comfort and convenience items, so >you'll need to find an SE to get these things. No experience with 3-channel >ABS on the 240 or anything else. Good luck! > >Mike Stevens >ES Altima SE > >---------- Original Message ---------- > >Hi all, > >I've been looking at the 1991-1993 Nissan 240sx and hope that some of you >knowledgeable folks might have information (or know where to find it :-) as >to the options/packages. > >In particular: > > - As I understand it, there was a sport package - any idea what that >included? > > - there was also a viscious limited slip - was that a line item option, or >part of a package? How well does it work? I've driven two 240sx's before >and wheelspin is indeed an issue, so this might be useful. > > - The ABS was a three channel system - how good/bad is it? > >Anything to look for/look out for? > >Thanks in advance! > >Kevin McCormick > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 13:32:52 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:36:13 -0400 Subject: (3)20 questions Hi again... By now y'all have probably hears a million times that I'm running my '83 BMW 320i in the local BMWCCA autocross series, and plan to give it a shot in SCCA HS (Devens or Orange Mass, anyone?) to see how it does against non-BMWs as well. Has anyone else on here autocrossed a 320i before? Any tips and/or tricks? Recommended tire pressures for 205/60/13 tires on stock rims? Some 2002 tricks may work, since the 320i has more mechanically in common with it than the rest of the 3 series, even though it's slightly heavier and less powerful. Thanks! - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 13:41:26 1999 From: MCGARVPJ@apci.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: 06 Apr 1999 15:41:00 -0500 Subject: 4/11 autoxes near DC? forwarded from Philly region autox list. ---------- From: FMAPEAIA@aol.com To: MCGARVEY,PETER J. Subject: Re: [PhAX]- Nazareth autox course Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:54PM Jon, Ordinarily Nazareth is OK. This weekend they are doing a joint event with the Corvette club - usually a disaster. The paddock area is long and narrow, so they usually have at lease one loop. Frank Adams From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 13:42:28 1999 From: MCGARVPJ@apci.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: 06 Apr 1999 15:42:00 -0500 Subject: 4/11 autoxes near DC? forwarded from philly region autox ---------- From: GO4DIGITAL@aol.com To: MCGARVEY,PETER J. Subject: Re: [PhAX]- Nazareth autox course Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:07PM Jon, Do not drive 4 hours for the nazareth event. It is small, no really small and there will be a big turnout because it is the first event of the year. Good luck. Dave Newman From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 14:05:57 1999 From: "Lewis, George (GEA, 083228)" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:51:44 -0400 Subject: RE: Possible Nationals Site Greg Lee wrote... >>Well the best way to beautify a NASCAR track is to keep away the fans. I >>don't know if you've ever noticed or not, but NASCAR fans are the same butt >>ugly people that shop at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning. Ugh............ Then Katie Kelly replied... >What are you doing at Wal-Mart at 2:00 in the morning? Katie, Weren't you paying attention? That's when people like Greg shop at Wal-Mart. But I didn't realize he was a NASCAR fan. :-) <-- Smiley face! Smiley face! Sorry Greg. It was just TOO easy. George Lewis BS 94 Miata R ESO (Equipment is Superior to Operator) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 14:13:58 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:47:20 EDT Subject: Re: We have a Tow Vehicle! In a message dated 4/6/99 2:48:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dg50@daimlerchrysler.com writes: << (Anybody else notice the increased number of Talon/Eclipse drivers hanging out here? >> No, unfortunately more Type-Rs, though... Daniel "I was raised on rice, damn it!" Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 14:42:05 1999 From: "Jeff Cawthorne" To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:40:18 -0700 Subject: Desparate for Corvette Wheels I found cracks in my 17x9 1/2" 92 Corvette wheels, and I am in need of some replacements. I saw a post a few months ago for some DYMAG 17x10"s, are those still available? I cracked my stock wheels so stock replacements would be alright, but I would really like a lighter set than 22lbs per wheel, maybe a set of ZR1 five spokes. Anyone out there with Corvette wheels for sale, please let me know as soon as possible, there is an event this weekend that I would like to run. I have called a few places today and I got the same answer from all of them, 4-6 weeks. Jeff Cawthorne San Diego 92 Corvette SS (619)487-7355 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 15:11:22 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:52:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Age >"Wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." --Jimmie Buffett > >JD Kemp >(My CAR is older than my competitior!) ======================= Well what about the wrinkles on my.............oh wait, nevermind. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 15:53:19 1999 From: Phil Esra To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: re: ST PAX numbers to come Mark Hirt: >That will be helpfull. What if all the fast ST drivers sandbag. >Keep on mind the RTP numbers ST were released before the season but >then again RTP numbers are based on more than just Nationals results. For those who might be interested- regarding the RTP ST index (.776?): We used it in SFR for a recent event and found it way too low, judging by the stellar indexed performances of ALL of our ST drivers. Something closer to E stock would probably be in the ballpark, in my experience. Phil Esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 16:04:34 1999 From: Phil Esra To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: re: Atwater ProSolo hotels? Alan Dahl asked about the grim Atwater hotel situation. Last year a bunch of us in SFR shared a campsite for Atwater events. If anyone is interested in roughing it for the Pro, let me know. It's a nice campground (Somethingorother State Park), surprisingly green, with showers, about 15-20 min north of the site. And it's much further from the train tracks than the motels are... Phil Esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 16:42:01 1999 From: NASA-VA Jon Felton To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:39:54 -0400 Subject: Autox & Camping (was: We have a Tow Vehicle!) For the Petersburg ProSolo, Virginia Motorsports Park has a campground right behind it. Picture Lake Campgrounds, or something like that. I believe it's owned by the same folks. Never stayed there because I live so close, but with a name like that, how bad could it be? =-) Give VMP a call for details: 804/730-0058 and 804/732-7223 Jon Felton, Director NASA Virginia Region next VMP autocross: April 18 (Come dial in your g-Forces for the ProSolo!) more info: http://am.net/nasa >2) Has anybody got any leads on good camping areas (with showers and abolution >facilities) near Ft. Myers, Peru, Harrisburg, and Richmond? There's a lot of >money to be saved by not using hotels (The place we used in Ft Myers was $100 a >night - yow!) and the back of the 'burban is conducive to camping, but the >better half insists on having access to running water. :) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 16:42:37 1999 From: "Scott Johnson" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:51:39 -0500 Subject: RE: Headers for Ford Trucks + NASCAR rant Robert M. Pickrell Jr. wrote: >Anyone know of a good source for headers for a 95 F-350 with a >460 cid gas engine. What do you think this is? Wal-Mart at 2 pm? :-) How can NASCAR be the fastest growing sport in America? Isn't there a limit in the number of cars per race? British Touring Cars kick NASCAR butt, and NASCAR knows it. They wouldn't let Antony Reid come over here and drive in a Busch race! -Scott Johnson sjohnson@kcnet.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 16:59:03 1999 From: Dick Rasmussen To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:59:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Old Age At 10:50 AM 4/6/99 -0500, Jay Mitchell wrote: >You 30-something "old" folks have the following to look forward >to: > >Having to take off your glasses to see what you're working on >under the race car because, even though you're nearsighted, >you're rapidly becoming farsighted as well, One reason I got a formula car was I was tired of having to do most of the work on a car while laying on the garage floor looking up thru the wrong part of my glasses. Most of the work on a formula car is in the range of the right part of the glasses (unless the car is too hot to get that close without being burned). I try to get under the car once or twice a year to clean the underside of the floor and the dry sump :-) Dick Rasmussen CM 85 85 Van Diemen RF-85 Formula Ford From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 17:03:52 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Alek Tziortzis" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:40:47 -0500 Subject: Re: nationals site >I would venture to guess that the new NASCAR track >parking lot will be asphalt (its cheaper). I believe Solo II rules >specifies concrete. Nonsense. >I, personally, want concrete Tire companies certainly love it. Concrete can give you more of a g-force thrill, but I am convinced the best driver will do as well on asphalt. The lesser traction ought to make sheer power a smaller factor in many types of cars, as it is more difficult to change that power into forward motion. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 17:13:02 1999 From: "Richard Holden" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:15:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Old Age Jay, Ididn't know that you were that old or have you just been rode hard and put up wet. -- Richard (Old Fartz #53) Holden--Red Datsun Z AP 77 Guilty of all symptoms Jay has mentioned except hangover, but add being stove up from just driving an event much less working on the car. Of course, my beast (car) fights back when I try to make it go where I want it to. I love the challenge. If replacement cam arrives in time, headed to Texas to fight the beast yet again. ---------- >From: "Jay Mitchell" >To: >Subject: Old Age >Date: Tue, Apr 6, 1999, 9:50 AM > > You 30-something "old" folks have the following to look forward > to: > > Having to take off your glasses to see what you're working on > under the race car because, even though you're nearsighted, > you're rapidly becoming farsighted as well, then spending > fifteen minutes looking for your f***ing glasses because you have > CRS (Can't Remember Shit) and finally finding them because you > stepped on them, then trying to put the lens you knocked out back > in with your fingers covered with gearlube or brake fluid and > then having to wipe them off with a shop rag so you can see well > enough (barely) to wash your hands, which you've gotta do so you > can get your glasses completely reassembled and clean again. So > you can see to get the tool you forgot to bring with you in the > first place and get back under the car.... > > Being stove up for two days because you had to do a clutch job or > a head gasket. > > Hearing your knees or your hips or your neck when you move. Or, > better yet, having other people hear them. > > Getting a hangover from two (OK, maybe three ;<) beers. Having a > hangover last more than a day. > > Having to put sunscreen on top of your head (and wearing a big > hat, too) because there's not enough hair left up there to keep > you from getting burned. > > Telling your kids not to do the stuff you used to love doing when > you were their age. > > Jay "well, it's not that bad if you can laugh at it" Mitchell > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 17:19:23 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Randy Chase , "Mari L. Clements" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:18:13 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Age Randy Chase writes... >Randy Chase "who thinks it's sadly amusing that anyone who is only 25 >(Justin) is proclaming he is not old yet. 8) You just wait. After 40 >it's patch, patch, patch...I am starting to feel like the concrete at >Topeka. I know. What is this? "Hey, I'm 25, and I don't feel a day over 15." Well, that's because you practically ARE 15! Now, when you're in your LATE twenties, THEN you can come talk to me... Katie By the way, at swim practice one day, Kristie (27) was waxing nostalgic over her younger days (4 years ago). She was explaining to Melissa (23) that no WONDER she's burning those calories so quickly. She's in her EARLY twenties, not even in her MID-twenties. "Now, I am in my LATE-twenties, Melissa, and let me tell you, it's all down hill baby." Of course, I, being in my LATE-late twenties, as opposed to Kristie who is merely in her LATE-twenties, felt like an old bag. But not really. Bea, who's 75, and in fantastic shape (swims the mile at every master's meet, even travels the globe for meets - and you should have seen her sprints this morning, with dives off the blocks and everything - she is hard core), just looked at us like we were COMPLETELY retarded. In fact, she's going on some charter bus tour this week to Palm Springs. Painted her toe-nails bright silver. She says, "I'm dreading the trip. I don't even dress like those old cronies." And she SWEARS by Clinique. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 17:39:32 1999 From: Cliff Loh To: Autox List Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:36:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Old Age "Jay Mitchell" writes: >You 30-something "old" folks have the following to look forward >to: >... >Hearing your knees or your hips or your neck when you move. Or, >better yet, having other people hear them. > >Getting a hangover from two (OK, maybe three ;<) beers. Having a >hangover last more than a day. Other things to look forward to as you fellas hit your 30's (when you're too old for Speed Freakz and too young for Old Fartz): OK, I'll agree with the knees and other joints but the beer intolerance?? c'mon. I've found that after I turned 30 (34 now) my tolerance for beer got better. This was due to the many years training while I was in college. Moreover, I can say that as you age, your taste gets better and you appreciate a nice frothy pint of Guinness vs plain ol' Bud (blecch!!) WARNING: Tolerance for beer is directly related to CRS. 20-something women will think you worldly and will want to date you. You won't be accused of robbing the cradle if you do so. 40-something women will think you youthful and will want to make you their personal plaything. Woohoo!! Sales people at the GAP will call you "sir". Doohh! You can actually afford some pretty neat sports cars now that you have a real job that actually pays well and you won't be accused of having a mid-life crisis. Despite the knees, your body is still resilient enough for snowboarding in the halfpipe. "Growing old is mandatory, growing up is not." -c. --------------------------------------------------- Cliff Loh, Vancouver, B.C. CANADA "I started out with nothing & still have most of it left." vcmc001@ibm.net, h:604.597.6784 c:604.202.8724 --------------------------------------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 17:51:23 1999 From: Kevin Bailey To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:48:32 -0600 Subject: RE: Atwater ProSolo hotels? Alan - so glad you asked! Surprisingly, the event hqtrs is the San Bernardino Hilton with the drivers meeting being held in the lobby Saturday morning at 8:30AM. Always glad to help a P5 competitor. -Kay Bailey ---------- From: Alan Dahl[SMTP:adahl@eskimo.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 1:14 PM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: Atwater ProSolo hotels? I'm wondering what the headquarters hotel for the Atwater ProSolo will be. I remember there is a place that we stayed at 2 years ago but I don't remember the name except that it is right next to the railroad tracks. Is this going to be it again? Are there any better reasonably-priced places to stay now, I was not too impressed with the hotels in Atwater and Merced that I've seen but perhaps things have changed in the last two years? - Alan Dahl P.S. Anyone looking for a roommate? ---------- ___ ____ Alan Dahl | home: adahl@eskimo.com /_ / / / Federal Way, WA, USA | work: Alan.Dahl@PSS.boeing .com / / _/__/ ---------------- http://www.eskimo.com/~adahl ------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 17:57:59 1999 From: Heyward K Wagner To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:57:32 EDT Subject: Honda Engine Any one know exactly how hard it is to rebuild a civic si engine at home? Something tells me Bob Veila hasn't published this one yet.... hKw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 18:00:22 1999 From: nxracer@mediaone.net (Mark Hirt) To: Phil Esra Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:00:07 -0500 Subject: Re: ST PAX numbers to come On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:52:06 -0700 (PDT), Phil Esra wrote: >For those who might be interested- regarding the RTP ST index (.776?): >We used it in SFR for a recent event and found it way too low, judging >by the stellar indexed performances of ALL of our ST drivers. Something >closer to E stock would probably be in the ballpark, in my experience. Phil, How did your STR drivers do? I could find the class on the regions web site. The ST number is based off STR (ST with Race rubber). Basically a ST class car should run about 1.6 seconds slower (due to tire stick) than an STR car. At our 1st event Street Touring was about 6 seconds off the fastest ES time and the fastest ES time was turned in by Per Schroeder a top National driver. At SFR event 6 your top ES car is 6.17 seconds slower than DS. AT Chi Event 1 our top ES car was .313 seconds slower than DS. RTP Numbers ST = .774 (Street Tired, STR cars) STR = .814 (ST with D.O.T. Approved "R" tires) STU = .824 Mark Hirt nxracer@mediaone.net http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 18:09:57 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Heyward K Wagner" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:12:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Honda Engine >Any one know exactly how hard it is to rebuild a civic si engine at home? > >Something tells me Bob Veila hasn't published this one yet.... Sure, it's available from PBS. Just ask for "This Old Engine Classic" $19.95 on VHS or Beta. Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 18:10:23 1999 From: John Lieberman To: washburn Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:13:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Wheeley Serwous Qwestion Aw, c'mon Pat! An old fart like me?!?!? 8<{) John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman washburn wrote: > > Or.....just use Autocad. > -- > Patrick Washburn > Wausau, WI Land of Cheese > 95 DS Neon > Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 18:24:45 1999 From: Phil Esra To: Mark Hirt , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: ST PAX numbers to come --- Mark Hirt wrote: > How did your STR drivers do? I could find the class on the > regions web site. The ST number is based off STR (ST with Race > rubber). > Basically a ST class car should run about 1.6 seconds slower (due > to tire stick) than an STR car. Unfortunately SFR doesn't offer the STR class. I think there's a bit of an anti-ST bias; most of the time the region's approach is to follow the National guidelines to the letter. > RTP Numbers > ST = .774 (Street Tired, STR cars) > STR = .814 (ST with D.O.T. Approved "R" tires) > STU = .824 Regarding your numbers: The STR index looks pretty reasonable, but 1.6 seconds slower on a 60-second course would equate to an index of about .793, right? 60 seconds x .814 = 48.840 indexed time (60 + 1.6) seconds x .793 = 48.849 indexed time With the RTP .774 index, to get the same indexed time on a 60-second course would require a time of 63.1 seconds, right? What am I doing wrong here? How did you come up with the 1.6 seconds? Phil Esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 20:07:57 1999 From: Jerry Mouton To: lella@gotnet.net Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:05:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Old Age Mike, That's what they call "distinguished". Jerry Mike Lella wrote: > > A beard is fine to hide wrinkles Jerry, but it made me look older because > it grew gray...now if Katie can grow a dark beard..... > > ---------- > From: Jerry Mouton > To: Kelly, Katie > Cc: autox@autox.team.net; ba-autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Old Age > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 6:36 PM > > Katie, > > I have complete sympathy with your discovery. I thought I should > pass down my long experience in dealing with wrinkles. After > worrying about them -- especially the congenital southern > "jowl" wrinkles, I finally found something that has worked for me. > > I grew a beard, and I can heartily recommend this as a solution. > > Jerry > > "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > > > Okay, so I'm standing there in the bathroom of the Oakland Coliseum. My > nose > > is all red from the wind. But that's not all. What the heck is wrong with > my > > face? What are those, wrinkles? > > > > "AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!" > > > > -- > Jerry Mouton jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons temps rouler! > --> Ecurie Écrevisse Autocross Squad <-- > '85 Porsche Carrera '64 Jaguar E Type > ---------- -- Jerry Mouton jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons temps rouler! --> Ecurie Écrevisse Autocross Squad <-- '85 Porsche Carrera '64 Jaguar E Type From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 20:37:53 1999 From: MBStevens1@aol.com To: zo7vette@san.rr.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:32:24 EDT Subject: Re: Re: 240SX questions Hmmm ... my bad. Guess I was erroneously applying the 95+ configurations to the previous generation. Should've kept my mouth shut (or sat on my hands?)! :-) Mike Stevens ES Altima SE In a message dated 4/6/99 3:13:05 PM, zo7vette@san.rr.com wrote: >Quite incorrect, the SE didn't automatically come with the sport suspension. >You do have to get the SE/LE to get the sport suspension. The LSD came when >you got ABS, the Sport suspension was part of the HICAS, rear steer. You >could also get these things on the LE model which came with the sunroof and >leather interior. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 21:34:40 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:32:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Age >"Wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." --Jimmie Buffett Barefoot children in the rain got no need to explain >JD Kemp >(My CAR is older than my competitior!) My car is older than many of my competitors, but it was made after I started autocrossing. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 21:46:28 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:27:54 -0700 Subject: Corvette Lovers check it out, others delete now Hey all Corvette race fans, just a note let you all know we will be at PIR for an SCCA National road race this weekend 4/10-11. The #97 1999 C5 Corvette Hardtop sponsored by KUMHO TIRE and SPEEDWARE MOTORSPORTS will be competing on the Big Oval and infield road course on Saturday and Sunday. There will be at least one other C5 competing in T1 this weekend driven by Bill Deters and prepped by DRM. The last time Bill and I met was at Firebird and our MTI Racing C5 came out on top ;-) So this should be a great race to watch! Last time a bunch of the Vette Net, ZR-1 Registry and C5 Registry gang came out and cheered us on! It was great to meet everybody and realize that people really do want to see Corvettes raced! So c'mon by and say howdy if you're bored in Phoenix this weekend.We'll be easy to find this weekend as we will have the NEW MTI Racing Transporter (all black 53' hauler and new Kenworth) at the track and you can look for a very subdued, conservatively decorated C5 painted black with just a small dab of yellow and a tiny bit of orange just for contrast :-) For more info about MTI Racing go to www.c5-corvette.com or www.C5registry.com or for more info about our sponsors see www.kumhousa.com & www.speedwaremotorsports.com sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 21:51:52 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "autocross" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:51:25 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: inside edge tire wear, the saga continues-H&C product?? At 9:49 AM 4/5/99, Eric Linnhoff wrote: snip > >And Mike, I don't need a pyrometer, I have two hands that can feel the >heat on the tires just fine. ... . But I >can tell when one edge is noticably warmer than the other and adjust the >tire pressure to sorta equalize them. a perfect product, ... Huck & Chuck pyrometer gloves... who needs those expensive electronic gizmos? The new (yet to be introduced, still in "testing") H&C "instant temperature" pyrometer gloves... the multi colors tell you when your pressures are incorrect. match the colors to get the correct pressures the uses are endless ... take it away Chuck (marketing manager) Jim Rohn Beater Racing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 22:01:12 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:00:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: inside edge tire wear, the saga continues - streets At 11:31 AM 4/5/99, Eric Linnhoff wrote: >This wear is only a concern on the race tires. I'm too lazy to change >the toe setting twice each weekend and I really don't care what happens >to my street tires. too lazy??? It takes me 20 seconds to toe out one complete turn on a late model f-body or Marilyn's Corvette on race day. Oh, yeah, I have to spend the same 20 seconds undoing it (the yellow marker on the *one* toe rod end helps keep it from going "out of spec") > If I have to buy a fresh set of street tires each >year for about $250, then so be it. Oh yeah, I've seen those advertised at Pep Boys/K-Mart/etc, 80k mile guarantee too ... I prefer a "real" street tire BTW, MOST people spend more on their street tires than their race tires, seems like a waste to trash them Jim Rohn Beater Racing yes, having fun with all these threads From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 22:23:11 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Age From: Jay Mitchell >You 30-something "old" folks have the following to look forward >to: > >Having to take off your glasses to see what you're working on >under the race car because, even though you're nearsighted, >you're rapidly becoming farsighted as well No, you're still nearsighted. But you are losing the ability to change focus because your lenses are hardening. See http://www.alphavista.com/alphavista/eyecare/opia.shtml#presbyopia I have two cures for working in the shop: Lots of light. Paint everything in the garage white. As the environment gets lighter, your irises close and the smaller pupil gives you more depth of field. Polycarbonate safety glasses ground to reading prescription. These are of course weaker than the glasses I use for distance. So I have my side-shields on to protect my aging eyes from flying pieces, and correction for astigmatism and the fact that my eyes are not the same focal length as each other. I still can take them off to read my vernier caliper... Downside? I need to find my regular glasses to see to sweep the floor. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 22:24:08 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: Auto-X mailing list Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:24:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Old Age On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/6/99 11:56:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: > > << Getting a hangover from two (OK, maybe three ;<) beers. >> > > I'm only mid-twenties and that happens to me...looks like i'm in for fun in > the next few (many) years... OK, I was REALLY trying to stay away from this whole thread. But this just begs for my one comment: Practice, practice, practice. Remember NOTHING beats seat time. If you're going to be really good, you have to do it a LOT. Applies to driving, too - just not at the same time, please! Dale --- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -Mitch Ratliffe, Technology Review April, 1992 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 23:13:57 1999 From: "Deanne" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:07:03 -0500 Subject: Handbook page 111 Does anyone have a good page 111 from the 1999 Solo Rule book. My page is missing the right side text and I can't read it. If you could scan it in and email it to me or fax it to me (817) 282-2720 I would really appreciate it. Thanks Deanne From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 6 23:59:59 1999 From: OneTimeCRX To: Deanne , autox Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 02:00:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Handbook page 111 That's weird--my book is missing the right side too. Oh well, I guess the rules for that page are more open to interpretation. :> -- Cheers, Henry C. *********************************************************** * TAS: Physics 89 CR-X dx ES * * Email: hchea@ramapo.edu OR OneTimeCRX@aol.com * * TLS#28 * *********************************************************** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 04:19:03 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: Jay Mitchell Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 05:18:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Age Don't feel too bad, I have CRS so bad it's my initials, if I remember right. . . ;^) ----------------------------- Jay Mitchell wrote: > > You 30-something "old" folks have the following to look forward > to: > > Having to take off your glasses to see what you're working on > under the race car because, even though you're nearsighted, > you're rapidly becoming farsighted as well, then spending > fifteen minutes looking for your f***ing glasses because you have > CRS (Can't Remember Shit) and finally finding them because you > stepped on them, then trying to put the lens you knocked out back > in with your fingers covered with gearlube or brake fluid and > then having to wipe them off with a shop rag so you can see well > enough (barely) to wash your hands, which you've gotta do so you > can get your glasses completely reassembled and clean again. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 05:58:57 1999 From: Brian Porter To: Paul Foster Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:56:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Stock Car Advice >Mazda Miata >Honda Whatever-its-called (the new Cabrio) S2000? >Porsche 968 > >I know all about the 968 and M030 suspensions (and I know approximately >where Matt Murray lives), but I need to know about the other two. > >I heard through the grapevine that the obvious car - the 1999 with the >Sport Package - may not be the way to go. What other years/options >should I consider or do you think the '99 Sport will eventually win out? I've actually heard the opposite about the '99 Sport.. (i.e. it's great). I know the Miata Sport is softer than the 94-97 R-pkg it replaced. I don't think the '99s had enough development time to shine. The 1.8L in the '99 Miata makes more usable power, is slightly stiffer and rides on 15" alloys from the factory. If SSB is any measure, the '99 should show an advantage to the 1st gen. Miata's pretty soon.. (with equal drivers of course..) As far as fitting, er.. I doubt it.. I'm 5'11'' and barely keep my head off my HardCore roll-bar in my '95R. I felt the '99 interior was a bit more cramped but I don't have the seat time to really be positive.. I don't like the added clutter of the '99s HVAC/gauges either. A friend who's around 6'4'' (very long legs) couldn't begin to drive my car without catching bugs in the teeth.. :) Currently, I'm equal in skill set (read: little..) to another few Miata folks driving '99s and our times are very close. So close, the car has very little to do with anything.. :) My '95R is very capable and I'm confident it'll be very competitive w/ the '99 in BS. The pilot needs the work.. :) I've recently driven a '99 Sport and felt both were similar in the speed department with the '99 having a slight edge.. I guess that's considerable since mine is broken in and has a few parts (exhaust, K/N e.t.c.) The '99 should be faster, everywhere. >Or am I better off waiting awhile and see who/what comes out on top? Or >should I save my pennies and gamble on the new Honda when it comes out? I might not go grab a '99 or a S2000.. IF you can fit, a '94-97 Miata could be had for $11k or so.. Add on Konis, tires, sway-bar and cat-back exhaust and you're still barely breaking $12k without giving up much (well, $10k-20k depending on options you listed) at all.. The numbers on the S2000 are appealing but it's high HP numbers are WAY up the rev. range. It's not really what I'd call light (2800-3000lbs?) and IMHO, it's just plain UGLY.. :) I guess time will tell. -Brian porterb@mediaone.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 06:26:46 1999 From: "Mark J. Hirt" To: pesra@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:26:36 -0500 Subject: Re: ST PAX numbers to come >Regarding your numbers: The STR index looks pretty reasonable, but 1.6 >seconds slower on a 60-second course would equate to an index of about >.793, right? The RTP Index is based on a 40 second course. 40 Seconds is more a "real world" number as most clubs do not get sites BIG enough to run 60 second courses. >60 seconds x .814 = 48.840 indexed time >(60 + 1.6) seconds x .793 = 48.849 indexed time >With the RTP .774 index, to get the same indexed time on a 60-second >course would require a time of 63.1 seconds, right? What am I doing >wrong here? 40 X .814 = 32.56 40 X .774 = 30.96 Then 32.56-30.96 = 1.6 > How did you come up with the 1.6 seconds? The 1.6 second time is actually based on some fact. A fellow NX2000 driver on "Street Tires" was around 1.6 seconds slower then me on "R" rubber. When driving my car with my "R" tires his times were about the same as mine. -- Mark J. Hirt Sun Solaris 2.X systems administrator nxracer@mediaone.net http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer http://www.aero-rexnord.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 07:11:00 1999 From: "Richard Holden" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:12:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Handbook page 111 All of the 1999 Solo Rule Books that I have seen (about 5 in Mid-South Region) have text missing from right side on quite a few pages in the 100 to 130 range. Can we exchange with corrected reprint from Denver? or do we just fill in the blanks to suit our interest? -- Richard Holden ---------- >From: "Deanne" >To: >Subject: Handbook page 111 >Date: Tue, Apr 6, 1999, 10:07 AM > > Does anyone have a good page 111 from the 1999 Solo Rule book. My page is > missing the right side text and I can't read it. If you could scan it in > and email it to me or fax it to me (817) 282-2720 I would really appreciate > it. Thanks > > Deanne > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 07:32:09 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Kelly, Katie" , Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:35:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Old Age >I know. What is this? "Hey, I'm 25, and I don't feel a day over 15." Well, >that's because you practically ARE 15! Oh, then I guess I'd better get off this list and go back to my old Mongoose, since I shouldn't be driving yet. So much for autox! :) >Now, when you're in your LATE twenties, THEN you can come talk to me... Uh-huh, a few short years makes the difference between smooth 'n' silky and rough 'n' wrinkley. Right. I'll talk to you in a few years once I'm legal to drive again. :) [Note the liberal use of :) What I'm saying is: I'm joking, you're joking, and I can take a joke!] :) - Justin, the baby, who will now stick his thumb back into his mouth - or his foot, whatever From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 07:34:11 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: Deanne Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:33:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Handbook page 111 Deanne wrote: > > Does anyone have a good page 111 from the 1999 Solo Rule book. My page is > missing the right side text and I can't read it. If you could scan it in > and email it to me or fax it to me (817) 282-2720 I would really appreciate > it. Thanks Do you have a 98 rules book? If so, the text for those sections is identical. (You can tell because there are no change bars on the sections.) If not, and you don't get a copy from someone else by mid-morning, drop me a note and I'll fax the relevant 1998 pages to you. Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 08:31:08 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:01:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Looking for a Mustang (car) not trying to short anyone of $50 but.....have you tried looking here? http://www.classifieds2000.com lots of cars, parts, stuff listed nationally and beyond too. Dave Yeung Houston Texas On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:32:55 -0600 Lindsay Wilson writes: >$50 cash reward to the individual providing the lead which results in >purchase. > >I am looking for a 1989 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 V8. > > 5 speed manual transmission > 5.0 liter V8 > Red exterior (preferred color, others considered.) > Gray cloth interior ( other colors considered.) > Car should be 'mostly' original and preferably one owner > with all maintenance records. > > NO major crash damage (minor dings, dents and scratches OK.) > NO sunroof please. > NO GT40 heads. > NO Vortec superchargers. > >I am willing to travel for the right car. > >FYI, this will be a daily driver and ESP project. I've decided I want >to drive >with the throttle again. :) > > Thanks for the help, > > Lindsay > > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 08:50:03 1999 From: Alan Dahl To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:51:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Stock Car Advice At 07:56 AM 4/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >>I heard through the grapevine that the obvious car - the 1999 with the >>Sport Package - may not be the way to go. What other years/options >>should I consider or do you think the '99 Sport will eventually win out? > >I've actually heard the opposite about the '99 Sport.. (i.e. it's great). >I know the Miata Sport is softer than the 94-97 R-pkg it replaced. I don't >think the '99s had enough development time to shine. The 1.8L in the '99 >Miata makes more usable power, is slightly stiffer and rides on 15" alloys >from the factory. If SSB is any measure, the '99 should show an advantage >to the 1st gen. Miata's pretty soon.. (with equal drivers of course..) No the '99 is *terrible*. Trust me, you _don't_ want one. Ok, so I'm lying :-). Actually in reality the '99 is probably 2-3% better overall, but not in all situations. George Douganis keesps proving the '94 model is right in there despite having 12 less hp and higher gearing. Each one has it's pros and cons and it usually comes down to the course as to which is better. >As far as fitting, er.. I doubt it.. I'm 5'11'' and barely keep my head off >my HardCore roll-bar in my '95R. I felt the '99 interior was a bit more >cramped but I don't have the seat time to really be positive.. I don't like >the added clutter of the '99s HVAC/gauges either. A friend who's around >6'4'' (very long legs) couldn't begin to drive my car without catching bugs >in the teeth.. :) The '99 has a slightly smaller steering wheel but otherwise is exactly the same interior-room-wise as the earlier car. >Currently, I'm equal in skill set (read: little..) to another few Miata >folks driving '99s and our times are very close. So close, the car has very >little to do with anything.. :) My '95R is very capable and I'm confident >it'll be very competitive w/ the '99 in BS. The pilot needs the work.. :) > >I've recently driven a '99 Sport and felt both were similar in the speed >department with the '99 having a slight edge.. I guess that's considerable >since mine is broken in and has a few parts (exhaust, K/N e.t.c.) The '99 >should be faster, everywhere. The big problem with the '99 is shocks. Once Koni has their shocks out in June/July we should start to see more of the '99's true potential. Right now your choices are the too soft but ok Mazdaspeed shocks, the factory non-adjuatable Bilsteins or $$$ custom shocks from Ground Control or Penske. >>Or am I better off waiting awhile and see who/what comes out on top? Or >>should I save my pennies and gamble on the new Honda when it comes out? > >I might not go grab a '99 or a S2000.. IF you can fit, a '94-97 Miata could >be had for $11k or so.. Add on Konis, tires, sway-bar and cat-back exhaust >and you're still barely breaking $12k without giving up much (well, >$10k-20k depending on options you listed) at all.. The numbers on the >S2000 are appealing but it's high HP numbers are WAY up the rev. range. >It's not really what I'd call light (2800-3000lbs?) and IMHO, it's just >plain UGLY.. :) I guess time will tell. Joe Goeke (joe_goeke@hotmail.com) has his twice ProSolo championship '94 R for sale for $10k with only 44,000 miles on it and all autocross equipment. IMHO this is a bargain and is the way to go if you're thinking of getting into a Miata. Hard to justify $22k for a new Sport when you can get a well setuip used one for half that. - Alan Dahl 1999 Miata Sport #99 BS/P5 ---------- ___ ____ Alan Dahl | home: adahl@eskimo.com /_ / / / Federal Way, WA, USA | work: Alan.Dahl@PSS.boeing.com / / _/__/ ---------------- http://www.eskimo.com/~adahl ------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 09:00:44 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:05:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Handbook page 111 - not all bad I just checked mine, and all pages are complete (infamous flip-through method). Evidently SCCA has decided to adjust the rules geographically this year ...... :-) Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 09:02:34 1999 From: Michael Knapp To: "'Team.Net'" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:02:22 -0700 Subject: More fuel for the fire? Just to help the 99 Miata, Honda S2000 discussion, don't forget the Toyota MR-Spyder, with the 180 horse motor should be interesting, and of course, you know there will be a turbo motor. Mike Knapp DS #376 (BMW 318ti) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 09:29:29 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:34:30 -0700 Subject: Questions about event fees, taxes, etc. SCCA is a non-profit club. But........ I am wondering if any SCCA group in any state is required to charge (and pay) sales tax for entry fees for Solo 2 events to the state? If your region has a racing group, what are their requirements - same or different? Additionally, are your groups also required to charge and pay to the state sales tax on anything sold at the "Goodie Stores" sometimes found at local events? Please distinguish between local events and 'national' events held, if it makes a difference. For instance, at the Nationals is there an included fee for taxes? At Divisionals/Tours? Pro Solos? I am interested in a large sampling of specific experiences and known examples, not opinions please. Thanks, Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 11:26:18 1999 From: Phil Esra To: "Mark J. Hirt" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: ST PAX numbers to come --- "Mark J. Hirt" wrote: > The RTP Index is based on a 40 second course. 40 Seconds is more > a "real world" number as most clubs do not get sites BIG enough > to run 60 second courses. Ah hah. That clears that up. > > How did you come up with the 1.6 seconds? > > The 1.6 second time is actually based on some fact. A fellow > NX2000 driver on "Street Tires" was around 1.6 seconds slower > then me on "R" rubber. When driving my car with my "R" tires his > times were about the same as mine. If it works for your region, go for it. I don't know of any rigorous testing that's been done to prove otherwise. However, many people in SFR, myself included, perceive R tires to be faster than good street tires (MXX3, SO2, etc) only by around a second, maybe a second and a half on a 60 second course. YMMV. In fact, YM does V. Phil Esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 12:27:14 1999 From: Sam Strano To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:27:14 -0400 Subject: lookin' for Mark Andy Subject sez it all. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 12:52:27 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:47:47 -0500 Subject: Texas, No Beer? Someone here in Kansas City told me that lots of places in Texas don't sell beer. This sounds totally draconian. Is it true? Should we plan on importing our own? No wonder they say its"Like a whole other country" Mike B. TLS#1 Just trying to keep up with the important stuff. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 13:04:40 1999 From: Jefrem Iwaniw To: Mike Bultemeier Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:07:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Texas, No Beer? There actually are some localities which "prohibit" sale of alcoholic beverages -- of course they are almost always bordered by a locale in which you can buy beer/wine/liquor at a gas station. Go figure. As another interesting example, Texas Motor Speedway doesn't sell beer (gasp!), but you can bring in your own coolers stocked with whatever you want. Anyways, in those "dry" locales, you can still imbibe if you join a private "club", usually represented by some sort of card (the most popular seems to be the Unicard), the cost of which is usually borne by the establishment in question. And no, I'm not making this up. :=) -jef On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Mike Bultemeier wrote: > Someone here in Kansas City told me that lots of places in Texas don't > sell beer. > This sounds totally draconian. Is it true? Should we plan on importing > our own? > > No wonder they say its"Like a whole other country" > > Mike B. TLS#1 > Just trying to keep up with the important stuff. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 14:12:17 1999 From: "Bradley H. Lamont" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:13:11 -0500 Subject: Re: tires for DSMs Hi all - I'm wondering what to do about tires for my Eclipse. I'm about at the point where my R1s are dead (they will be after McKamey this weekend). After looking at different tires (in increasing tread size): width model size section tread cost g-Force 205/50R17 8.1 7.7 $155 R1 235/45R17 9.0 8.4 $135 (discontinued) g-Force 225/45R17 8.5 8.5 $160 Kuhmo 225/45R17 9.17 8.66 $130 Kuhmo 245/45R17 9.65 9.13 $135 g-Force 245/40R17 9.4 9.3 $160 (heat cycling costs $15 for any of the tires) Does anyone have any real-life experience with either the g-Force or the Kuhmos? I'll be mounting them on the stock Eclipse wheels which are 17x6.5". I called Tire Rack yesterday and the sales drone I talked to said that he didn't know what would actually fit. He also said that competition tires are non-refundable, so if they don't fit I'm stuck. Personally, I'm leaning towards the Kuhmo 225/45, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has actually used them or the g-Forces. They're cheaper and have 6/32" vs 3/32" so they'll last longer. Thanks, Brad ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bradley Lamont email: lamont@xnet.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 14:35:46 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Michael Knapp Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:36:56 -0700 Subject: Re: More fuel for the fire? Michael Knapp wrote: > > Just to help the 99 Miata, Honda S2000 discussion, don't forget the Toyota > MR-Spyder, with the 180 horse motor should be interesting, and of course, > you know there will be a turbo motor. 180? I think it's touted at 140 hp, not 180. If it were 180, I don't think anyone would consider it for B-Stock. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 14:42:52 1999 From: MBStevens1@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:17:12 EDT Subject: Re: 4/11 autoxes near DC? The Autocrossers Ltd. club in the DC area is having their Novice weekend and practice autox this weekend -- registration appears to be full for the practice autox on Sunday, but if you show up at the event there will be a good chance you can get on a waiting list for no-show slots. More info at: http://www.qis.net/~zoomie/altd/index.html Mike Stevens ES Altima SE From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 15:12:34 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:09:17 -0400 Subject: Atlanta NOPI S2 April 18th Atlanta Region will be hosting a NOPI Solo II event at Atlanta Motor Speedway, Sunday April 18th. Entry fees are $20 for SCCA members and $25 for non-members. Come out and practice for the first SEDIV coming up on May 1-2 at this same site. Atlanta Region will be holding events both weekends before the SEDIV's first event of the season. Out of town guests and Novices can enter either the morning session (beginning at 8 a.m.) or the afternoon session (beginning at 11:00 a.m.). Pre-registration for the event on April 18th or 25th can be done on the Atlanta Region Website at: and jump to the Solo II registration page. You may also pre-register for the SEDIV Series of events at: Please pre-register because this will speed up our events. If you are an Atlanta Region member running for points the following Run/Work order must be followed: Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, BP, CP, EP, DP, KMJr., KM Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, The following run/work schedule will be followed throughout the season: April 18 Points #2: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 15:27:07 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:29:36 -0400 Subject: Dogwood Grand Prix Needs you This is a PRIMO autocross event that needs our support. It is run on a W-I-D-E expanse of freeway in Knoxville, Tennessee. The course is usually about 2 miles long and is quite quick. It is run on a Saturday (April 17th, only, in conjunction with the Knoxville Dogwood Festival. One of the unique things about this event is that it is a Spectator event and they have volunteers from the community come out and work the course for us. This event is open to all but Modified class cars. Just an idea, but you can run the Dogwood GP on Saturday and drive about 4 hours south to Atlanta and run their event at Atlanta Motor Speedway on Sunday. See more below. --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CHANDLER MCMILLAN Hey Ben, Robert Carpenter called me last night. The Dogwood Grand Prix only has 40 preregistered entries. They need a LOT more entries or this event will not come back next year. We do NOT want to lose the only Street Solo in the southeast, because if we lose it for one year it will never happen again. Please tell everyone you can think of and post this on the website that they need entries. Robert thought they would probably waive the late fee. The entry is $40, payable to "Dogwood Arts Festival," 111 North Central Ave, Knoxville, TN 37902. LETS SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME INTEREST IN THIS STREET SOLO ON 4/17/98 (Saturday only)!!!!!!!! Heathcakes McMillan From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 17:04:54 1999 From: WHEELSPNR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:03:30 EDT Subject: Sunday the 11th in St Louis .... is the Regions first autocross ... Address is Riverport Amphitheater Parking Lot ... Earth City, MO .... Surface is fairly good asphalt ..(we avoid any bad spots) with lots of parking, restroom facilities, and fast food nearby. Registration begins at 830 ... closes at 1030 ... first car off by 11:15 ... SCCA members, $16, non-members, $21. The buck bump in prices go to offset an additional year-end award which is All Class Winners will have the Banquet (January 15, 1999) paid for by the Club. You must run five (5) of the nine events in ONE CLASS ... and of course, win your class for the Banquet Award !! Banquet's usually are priced in the $25 to $35 range. Our Hot Line is always there for information, and , you may leave a question or comment .... 314-863-7676 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 17:16:54 1999 From: Dick Rasmussen To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 19:17:15 -0400 Subject: 77 280Z with 83 Z Turbo Engine Question: A neighbor just bought a 77 280Z with a 83 280ZX Turbo engine. I assume this jumps it all the way to E Mod. Correct? Dick Rasmussen CM 85 85 Van Diemen RF-85 Formula Ford From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 17:57:04 1999 From: Gail/Sid deLeon To: Mike Bultemeier Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:55:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Texas, No Beer? ADVENTURE RACING never leaves home without a copious quantity of "Abita Amber" our own mellow local New Orleans brew. After all the class we run is BE PREPARED! Is copious almost as good as draconian? See you in Fort Worth, stop by for a cold one. Sid Mike Bultemeier wrote: > Someone here in Kansas City told me that lots of places in Texas don't > sell beer. > This sounds totally draconian. Is it true? Should we plan on importing > our own? > > No wonder they say its"Like a whole other country" > > Mike B. TLS#1 > Just trying to keep up with the important stuff. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 18:25:17 1999 From: Tom Shirley To: Autocross List Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 20:30:53 -0400 Subject: Chattanooga Region AutoX & School 4/10 & 11 The Chattanooga Region will be hosting a Driving School on April 10th, and an Autocross on April 11th at the Dade County High School in Trenton, Ga. Registration for the school begins at 8:30 am, there will be a classroom session at 10:00 am, and start driving around 11:00 am. We will run until 4-5 pm, depending on turnout, and afterwards we'll gather at Larry's in Trenton for dinner and bench racing. The Autocross will be run as a usual event, registration at 10:30, drivers meeting at 12:00, first car off shortly after that. The costs will be $20 for the school, $20 for the autocross for SCCA members, $30 for both days if you are a first timer or a student. Direction to the school can be found at the Chattanooga Region website. __ / \ /(==)\ Tom Shirley Sale Creek, TN __ .=_.--._=. __ BAD DOG Racing | |---|<| |>|---| | 1982 Royale RP31M Formula Ford | | \ \ 18 / / | | 1978 Triumph Spitfire |__|-----\<\__/>/-----|__| http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1080 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 18:55:42 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "washburn" , Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:15:38 -0500 Subject: Re: "It's just a car" - Colin is rolling over in his grave From: washburn >Hi Jay. I'm following the Lotus ASP thread with interest becuase I am >an admitted Europa fan. (Yes, I have sought support) anyway, are the >Europa really out gunned in ASP, or is it that there just isn't a >hyper-serious effort? I don't know you or your car, so I'll apologize >for that question now just in case. ;) I don't really know a lot about >ASP, and I know nothing about history of ASP cars at the National level, >but I could sure get real interested if Europa's were a player. Thanks! No, you can't have mine. Well, at least not cheap. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:08:51 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Jefrem Iwaniw" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:03:05 -0400 Subject: Re: No Beer? -----Original Message----- From: Jefrem Iwaniw >There actually are some localities which "prohibit" sale of alcoholic >beverages -- of course they are almost always bordered by a locale in >which you can buy beer/wine/liquor at a gas station. Go figure. Not unique to Texas -- Moore County, Tennessee (Metropolitan Lynchburg -- I'm not kidding!) is dry, which means that they can *make* Jack Daniels there, but they can't *buy* it. Of course, there are multiple places just yards across the county line which solve that problem. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:28:15 1999 From: AJCAR6@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:27:02 EDT Subject: Re: Handbook page 111 Mine too... Also, bad news for you ES drivers, you've all been moved to CS! (see page 145) Or is that bad news for CS drivers? :) AJ HS '91 Capri (slow but fun) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:42:31 1999 From: "Jim Martin" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:43:20 -0700 Subject: Atwater Pro motel Applegate Inn is the closeset motel to the site. 209 357 0202 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:44:19 1999 From: Harvey Robideau To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 20:44:18 -0500 Subject: Course Layout Somewhere at one time I had a link that had some very good info about designing and setting up autox courses. Any info in that direction would be appreciated. Thanks From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:53:02 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:57:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Handbook page 145 AJCAR6@aol.com wrote: > > > Also, bad news for you ES drivers, you've all been moved to CS! (see page > 145) Or is that bad news for CS drivers? :) > Hey - all I did was write ONE letter.........wow! Scott Meyers The Power of the Pen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:18:56 1999 From: "Jan Schmidt" To: autox@autox.team.net, sportscar48@juno.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Honda Engine Heyward I rebuilt a couple of 1 gen Civic motors about 15 years ago, one of them in my living room! The were pretty straight forward except Honda is pretty finicky about bearing tolerances. They had 4 or 5 different bearing thicknesses to accomodate the manufacturing tolerances when the block was line bored at the factory. As i recall Honda had a color code system in which each color designated a different thickness. I have no idea what Honda is doing on their current motors. PS I still have a 78 Civic that I need to sell cheap! Bill Schmidt KC Region >>> Heyward K Wagner 04/06 6:57 PM >>> Any one know exactly how hard it is to rebuild a civic si engine at home? Something tells me Bob Veila hasn't published this one yet.... hKw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:19:49 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: hottvr@tfs.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:16:40 EDT Subject: Re: Texas, No Beer? In a message dated 4/7/1999 1:56:08 PM Central Daylight Time, hottvr@tfs.net writes: << Someone here in Kansas City told me that lots of places in Texas don't sell beer. >> I think the track is actually in a dry county. Just south of the track are most of the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc. They're located in a wet county, so don't despair... Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:35:14 1999 From: "Deanne" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:33:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Texas, No Beer? I live near the track. Tarrant County isn't dry....it's a city & speedway thing. You will find plenty of places that sell beer, wine, liquor, etc. w/i 15 minutes of the track (north, south, east & west). No selling before noon on sunday though. Deanne > I think the track is actually in a dry county. Just south of the track are > most of the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc. They're located in a wet > county, so don't despair... > > Bruce Dickey > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:58:42 1999 From: Rjgrainger@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:57:44 EDT Subject: looking for Craig Straub Looking for Craig's EMail matthew grainger From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 22:01:50 1999 From: nxracer@mediaone.net (Mark Hirt) To: autox@autox.team.net, chicago@twingles.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:01:39 -0500 Subject: TSSCC website The Tri-State Sports Car Council web site has moved Our new address is http://www.tsscc.org (no more people.ce.mediaone.net/nx..........) Mark Hirt editor@scca-chicago.com webmaster@tsscc.org nxracer@mediaone.net http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer Monitor, #f1 IRC's ultimate motorsport discussion group From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 22:16:34 1999 From: Brian Porter To: Alan Dahl Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 00:16:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Stock Car Advice >No the '99 is *terrible*. Trust me, you _don't_ want one. Ok, so I'm lying >:-). Actually in reality the '99 is probably 2-3% better overall, but not >in all situations. George Douganis keesps proving the '94 model is right in >there despite having 12 less hp and higher gearing. Each one has it's pros >and cons and it usually comes down to the course as to which is better Similar to what I hear but has yet to be proven.. A decent BS Miata guy moved from a '95R to a '99 Sport and prefers the '99.. Added power and chassis stiffness are his top raves.. Do you know what the top-5 BS cars were at the Nationals this year? (year/model) > >The '99 has a slightly smaller steering wheel but otherwise is exactly the >same interior-room-wise as the earlier car. I think the added "clutter" (HVAC buttons, gauges e.t.c.) made it *feel* smaller to me.. But in fairness, I always feel cramped for the first hour or so after driving out of winter storage.. I do have the more accomodating, lightweight '95 interior.. (no armrests..) > >The big problem with the '99 is shocks. Once Koni has their shocks out in >June/July we should start to see more of the '99's true potential. Right >now your choices are the too soft but ok Mazdaspeed shocks, the factory >non-adjuatable Bilsteins or $$$ custom shocks from Ground Control or Penske. What size front sway bar does the '99 Sport come with nowadays? I recently added Koni's and an Addco 7/8" bar and love the mod.. I'll be as big as Arnold from added steering effort though.. :) -Brian porterb@mediaone.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 22:17:24 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Mark Hirt , autox@autox.team.net, Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: TSSCC website Whoops...guess I shouldn't abbreviate Texas Spokes Sports Car Club in my signature anymore! :) (fwiw we're at ) Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX --- Mark Hirt wrote: > The Tri-State Sports Car Council web site has moved > > Our new address is http://www.tsscc.org > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 00:38:22 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autocross list" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:30:10 -0700 Subject: R/T sits higher with Konis? Has anyone else put Konis on their Neon R/T? Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 02:19:33 1999 From: Gerald Chen To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? > Has anyone else put Konis on their Neon R/T? > > Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually > sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? > Yes, you're right...I've put Koni's on my 95 Sport Coupe and it appears that it has raised it a bit (lucky I have some Eibach's or else the gap would be horrendous :) - it does make sense though, the Koni's are stiffer and with the Neon being relatively light, a higher ride height doesn't seem too odd. Gerald From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 04:41:36 1999 From: "Mark J. Hirt" To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 05:41:35 -0500 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Eric Linnhoff wrote: > Has anyone else put Konis on their Neon R/T? > > Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually > sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? Your Neon Koni's are "gas", installing gas shocks will raise just about any car about 1/2". My NX Koni's are Hydraulic and do not do raise the car at all, but I have to remove them from the car to adjust them. -- Mark J. Hirt Sun Solaris 2.X systems administrator nxracer@mediaone.net http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer http://www.aero-rexnord.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 05:25:51 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: eric10mm@qni.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:24:58 EDT Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? In a message dated 4/8/99 2:39:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eric10mm@qni.com writes: << Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? >> If this is true, you must put it back to stock ride height or else you are protest bait at any large event... Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX aka Type R Hunter From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 05:57:48 1999 From: Brian Priebe To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:54:54 -0400 Subject: No beer You can either go staight east from the track until you run into a beer store or a couple exits north of the track and their is a beer store. Oh by the way you can not buy beer on Sunday before noon in Texas. Some of my friends found that out the hard way before the race. --Brian Priebe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 06:05:01 1999 From: washburn To: Mtnman3620@aol.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:02:05 -0500 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/8/99 2:39:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eric10mm@qni.com > writes: > > << Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually > sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? > >> > > If this is true, you must put it back to stock ride height or else you are > protest bait at any large event... Errrrrrrrrrrnnnntt. Ride hieght changes as a result of legal adjustments are allowable unless, like in the case of a 914, the ride hieght is part of the factory manual requirements. See section 13.8 regarding range of factory adjustment. That is my read on this anyway, I'm sure someone will find a moment to correct me if I'm wrong. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 06:06:05 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:05:53 -0700 Subject: BMW gets the roadster right - finally See Page 50 of the May 99 Road & Track. BMW's Z8 is on the money, visual design-wise. If only the Z3 models looked this good. Maybe BMW'll eventually incorporate the Z8's revised body panels in the "lesser" (apparently the Z8 will sell for 120k) two-seaters, Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 06:06:10 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Mtnman3620@aol.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:02:25 -0700 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > If this is true, you must put it back to stock ride height or else you are > protest bait at any large event... Not necessarily. It depends on what caused the change. If you change from hydraulic to gas shocks and everything else is kosher (no change in spring perch locations), then your car will sit higher and the ride height change will be legal. This is specifically addressed in the rulebook. The reverse - changing from gas to hydraulic shocks, which will reduce the ride height - is also legal. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 07:09:01 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: washburn@dwave.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:08:12 EDT Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Ok, ok...I was going off the, um, assumption I had that ANY change from stock ride height is illegal. I had faced a situation when I put Konis on my Eclipse where the notches for the spring perches were 15mm lower than stock. I guess that is what I was thinking...sorry for any confusion. Daniel "yes, i can be wrong...sometimes" Ledford 99 Mitsu (legal ride height and everything) Eclipse GSX aka Type R Hunter From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 08:02:00 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Harvey Robideau" , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:05:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Course Layout > Somewhere at one time I had a link that had some very good info about >designing and setting up autox courses. Any info in that direction >would be appreciated. Thanks I have a copy of a Powerpoint presentation from the Houston region SCCA that Roger H. Johnson put together in June '97. It's 442k zipped. There's some great info, and we used this as a guideline when setting up the local BMWCCA course this year. Let me know if you (or anyone) wants it and I'll pass it on. (Unzipped version is 2.5mb) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 08:05:51 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" , "Jay Mitchell" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:09:11 -0400 Subject: Re: BMW gets the roadster right - finally Hi, Jay, The Z8 is a beautiful car, I fully agree. I actually like the way the Z3 looks, but that's just me. The Z3 coupes, well, that's REALLY pushing it. I definitely wouldn't buy one for looks alone - if I wanted a rear end like that, I'd buy an old Civic for MANY times less! But after driving one I rapidly ceased to care how the car looked, because it's such a joy to drive. Hopefully the Z8 has performance to match its looks - not to mention its price tag! I'm hoping the Z8 hasn't gone the way of the 300ZX - based on a sports car, but "cushified" to oblivion. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 08:32:12 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:31:41 EDT Subject: Alignment Question (not car specific) Hey all, I was curious. If I were to increase the positive caster angle (in a camber-impared car) to the maximum position (obviously without having anything rubbing, etc), would there be any increase in performance or consequently any negative effects in handling? I realize that it would increase the negative camber when in a turn. Also, I've heard that the G-Forces do not like as much toe out as the R1s did. Any feedback from those of you running them? Thanks, Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 09:05:33 1999 From: Kevin McCormick To: "'Brian Porter'" , Alan Dahl Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:05:15 -0700 Subject: RE: Stock Car Advice > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Porter [mailto:porterb@mediaone.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 9:16 PM > To: Alan Dahl > Cc: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Stock Car Advice > > > Similar to what I hear but has yet to be proven.. A > decent BS Miata > guy moved from a '95R to a '99 Sport and prefers the '99.. > Added power and > chassis stiffness are his top raves.. I too have switched from a 95R (still in the garage though currently - for sale shortly - interested parties give an email!) to a '99. The '95 was easy to setup - just be a lemming and do what the others did, poof instant nationally competitive car. The '99 has not been quite so easy yet - mostly due to being an early entry. Those that have committed to it (Alan Dahl, Peter Raymond (in Jerry Bennington's car) et al. have gotten them to go quite fast. We're finally getting there. We're _almost_ to being able to 'just drive' as Ren Marinus would phrase it. Someday Katie Edler and I will do an impromptu drag race between her '99 and my '95 to verify which is quicker. Hard to tell by seat of the pants - and mine has the full cat back Borla, so is louder, making it _sound_ faster. The stiffness is better on the '99, but mostly noticeable over rough areas. > > Do you know what the top-5 BS cars were at the Nationals this year? > (year/model) I can do this from the top of my head (no comments, any of you! :-): 1st: George Doganis '94 Miata R 2nd: me (Kevin McCormick) '95 Miata R 3rd: Alan Dahl '99 Miata Sport 4th: Peter Raymond '99 Miata Sport 5th: Eric Esch '95 Miata R (converted to one?) > > > > >The '99 has a slightly smaller steering wheel but otherwise > is exactly the > >same interior-room-wise as the earlier car. > > I think the added "clutter" (HVAC buttons, gauges e.t.c.) > made it *feel* > smaller to me.. But in fairness, I always feel cramped for > the first hour > or so after driving out of winter storage.. To me, the '99 actually feels more open with the top of the dash being lower. The steering wheel is indeed a step up! > > I do have the more accomodating, lightweight '95 > interior.. (no armrests..) Good and bad - for long drives, the armrests are much better. They do get in the way (permanent indentation on the left knee) in spirited driving. Such is life! > > > > >The big problem with the '99 is shocks. Once Koni has their > shocks out in > >June/July we should start to see more of the '99's true > potential. Right > >now your choices are the too soft but ok Mazdaspeed shocks, > the factory > >non-adjuatable Bilsteins or $$$ custom shocks from Ground > Control or Penske. > > What size front sway bar does the '99 Sport come with > nowadays? I recently > added Koni's and an Addco 7/8" bar and love the mod.. I'll be > as big as > Arnold from added steering effort though.. :) Stock is 7/8" (compared to 5/8 for a 94-97.) I run/ran a 15/16 on my 95R. Kevin McComrick > > -Brian > porterb@mediaone.net > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 09:21:07 1999 From: Ghsharp@aol.com To: Mtnman3620@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:20:52 EDT Subject: Re: Alignment Question (not car specific) In a message dated 4/8/99 9:33:33 AM EST, Mtnman3620@aol.com writes: > Also, I've heard that the G-Forces do not like as much toe out as the R1s > did. Any feedback from those of you running them? It's not so much that the g-Force doesn't_like_as much toe-out as the R1, it just doesn't_need_as much because it's turn-in response is much better than the old tire. GH Sharp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 09:41:04 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autocross" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:42:39 -0500 Subject: any body-men out there? How-dee!!! At our last local event my co-driver not only managed to best my times, a cardinal no-no if you want to co-drive someone elses car, but he managed to smack one of our local petrified cones hard enough to dent the rocker panel under the front passenger door panel. The dent doesn't bother me so much cuz it's sorta like a battle scar and chicks dig scars. ;^) But, the paint cracked on the edge of the dent and peeled up a little bit and currently has a little bare metal exposed to the elements. It left a bare spot approximately 1/8" x 3" and the paint is peeling away enough so that I could pull on it and make the exposed bare metal area much larger. What's the best way for me to bandage this wound? It doesn't have to be real pretty as it's in a location that's pretty hard to see and the car's white so it'll be easy to match the paint. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined but I couldn't hammer out a flat body panel if my life depended on it. I mainly don't want the panel to rust from the inside-out and the paint to bubble up from the rust. I've already purchased some touch up paint from the dealer so that there's some chance of the paint matching the surrounding panel. Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 09:53:03 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: Mtnman3620@aol.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:58:15 -0700 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/8/99 2:39:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eric10mm@qni.com > writes: > > << Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually > sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? > >> > Regarding gas Konis RAISING the car - only HIGH PRESSURE gas shocks will do this to a measureable degree, and I don't think the Konis are that. Eric - take some exact comparative measurements, and I think you will find that the spring perches are welded exactly that much higher on the Koni shock body, compared to the stock ones. Aftermarket shocks are made to a "one size fits all" design, which is no problem for Joe Average's daily driver. > If this is true, you must put it back to stock ride height or else you are > protest bait at any large event... Like, by cutting the springs? :-) > > I really wonder if there is a weenie low enough out there to protest a car for being too high. Oh. Right. I forgot. Of COURSE there is..... ;-) Scott Meyers (Just don't beat anyone....) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 09:59:12 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@earthlink.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:55:23 EDT Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? In a message dated 4/8/99 11:52:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, autox@earthlink.net writes: << I really wonder if there is a weenie low enough out there to protest a car for being too high. >> As long as you are beating people, that qualifies you for being the target of weenie protests... Daniel "not been subject to weenie protests..." Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 10:13:15 1999 From: "Kent Rafferty" To: "Scott & Glenda Meyers" , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:11:53 -0400 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? I remember the now-retired muti-time national champion Bob Smith arguing that a car that was higher than stock could, in some instances, have a performance advantage (don't ask me when or what cars.....), and that he *would* consider a protest on just such an item. IMO, he wasn't trying to be a weenie, just a stickler for the rules as written. Kent Rafferty >I really wonder if there is a weenie low enough out there to protest a >car for being too high. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 10:18:01 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:19:39 -0500 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? >> << Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually >> sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? >> >> >Regarding gas Konis RAISING the car - only HIGH PRESSURE gas shocks will do >this to a measureable degree, and I don't think the Konis are that. > >Eric - take some exact comparative measurements, and I think you will find >that the spring perches are welded exactly that much higher on the Koni shock >body, compared to the stock ones. ========================= Already did that. With a quality caliper that's accurate to 1/1000th inch. The spring perches are in exactly (well, within 0.005") the same position as the factory struts and the strut body is the exact same length as the factory strut and so is the strut shaft as it extends from within the strut body (again, within 0.005"). So..........if it does actually sit higher, instead of being just my perception, then it would have to be due to the gas pressure. Right? I saw my car sitting sandwiched between a couple of other Neons in the parking lot yesterday. Of course they were also a '95 and a '96 model so I guess it's entirely feasible that _their_ springs had just sagged over time and my car is still sitting as tall as it ever did since it's a '98 and that much newer. >Aftermarket shocks are made to a "one size fits all" design, which is no >problem for Joe Average's daily driver. ========================= I would suspect this to be true for el-cheapo 4 for a $100 Wal-mart, Sears and parts store brands but I would truly hope that manufacturers of "quality" aftermarket suspension parts like Koni, Tokico, GAB, etc would build their products to a little higher level of quality. >> If this is true, you must put it back to stock ride height or else you are >> protest bait at any large event... > >Like, by cutting the springs? :-) ========================= Ooh, can I do that? Of course then I'd have to use higher rate springs to make up for the amount of coils that I had to cut in order to get the car to sit that 1/2" lower. ;^) >I really wonder if there is a weenie low enough out there to protest a car for >being too high. > >Oh. Right. I forgot. > >Of COURSE there is..... ;-) ============================== Weenies abound. >Scott Meyers > >(Just don't beat anyone....) ========================== Hey, have you seen me drive too? ;^) I guess what Mike says is true, I do actually have to beat someone before they're likely to protest me. Thanks. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 10:24:27 1999 From: "May I Pas" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:24:20 PDT Subject: Aftermarket Wheels: Konig, BBS, TSW, etc. ??? I am looking to buy aftermarker wheels but I don't know what are good or bad. I won't be able to use them for autox because NOBODY makes an aftermarket 17"x6.5" wheel, and the weight doesn't matter. I am leaning toward Konig Tuners because they resemble the stock wheel. So my question is.... What brand would you suggest? Konig , BBS, TSW, etc. Thanks, Thanh Dombroe "Ready or not... Here I come!" '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 10:34:35 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:33:10 -0600 Subject: RE: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? >Of course they were also a '95 and a '96 model >so I guess it's entirely feasible that _their_ springs had just sagged >over time and my car is still sitting as tall as it ever did since it's >a '98 and that much newer. Okay, Eric (fellow TLS member here), did you have the driver out of the comparison cars? I just thought I would ask before Mike B does!! In all seriousness, compared to a 98 R/T at the dealer lot that had the Koni's from Dodge installed, my 95 Sport was 1/2" lower at the wheel well with same size tires. This was last fall when I thought I wanted a new Neon. Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster (with almost a complete exhaust system now, getting closer to running!) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 10:36:20 1999 From: OneTimeCRX To: autox Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:35:52 -0400 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? Since Neons have a tendency to lift wheels while in turns, aren't any of you concerned about the safety of raising the CG of the car? Personally, I'd be concerned about flipping the car. Also, my crx seems to have been raised too, after I installed some tokico's. However, I haven't had the chance to measure the perch heights. -- Cheers, Henry C. *********************************************************** * TAS: Physics 89 CR-X dx ES * * Email: hchea@ramapo.edu OR OneTimeCRX@aol.com * * TLS#28 * *********************************************************** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:05:36 1999 From: Bret Dodson To: Kevin McCormick Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: Stock Car Advice On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Kevin McCormick wrote: > Someday Katie Edler and I will do an impromptu drag race between her '99 and > my '95 to verify which is quicker. Hard to tell by seat of the pants - and > mine has the full cat back Borla, so is louder, making it _sound_ faster. I have a '96 R. It's a smidge faster accelerating than a friend's 94 C. When Alan got the '99, we did a few 2nd gear runs of about 20 Miles Per Hour to redline. When the '99 had only a few hundred miles on it we would be just about dead even. I'd find myself pulling ahead a few times (sure made me happy) Now that Alan has racked up a few thousand miles, the '99 will walk from my '96 like mine will walk from the '94. The '99 does hit the rev limiter earlier than the '96. The '99 is about a car length or two ahead of the '96 when it hits the limiter. The '96 appears to have a couple more mph before it hits the limiter. Hopping in and out of the two cars leaves me relly wanting a '99. It leaps off the line much better than the '96. The '99 has the 4.30 rear end compared to the 4.10 of the old cars. Here's some interesting power figures for the cars: 94 - 95 Miata 128 hp @ 6500 110 ft/lbs @ 5500 96 - 97 Miata 133 hp @ 6500 114 ft/lbs @ 5500 99+ Miata 140 hp @ 6500 119 ft/lbs @ 5500 After looking at other classes, the power differences between the three types of 1.8 Miatas isn't that big. What do other folks think? Will the old cars be rendered completely obsolete? Is the power difference enough to nullify driver talent from teh equation? (What I'm really asking is if a sorta fast guy like me will still have a chance when the really fast guys all develop the '99s) Maybe I should be hunting for a co-drive with Alan... Bret Dodson '96 Miata R Seattle, WA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:13:40 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:17:14 -0400 Subject: Neons >I saw my car sitting sandwiched between a couple of other Neons in the >parking lot yesterday. I know the Neon is an excellent autocross performer, but do you ever get bored driving such a cookie cutter car? :) Most of you have the R/T or ACR packages, but aside from the gawdawful optional stripes on the R/T, only someone who knows Neons quite well can eyeball one and distinguish it from the average grocery getter - and I admit that I'm not one who knows Neons that well. The same can be said about the many Hondas out there as well - who but a Honda nut can tell the base model from an EX (or the new Si)? Me, well, I'm lucky if I see one other 320i like mine in a week, and even that's rare... :) - Justin '83 BMW 320i, HS '95 Mercury Tracer - yes, I drive a cookie cutter too, and am just joking around :) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:14:58 1999 From: LuvCrvs@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net, Hottvr@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:14:32 EDT Subject: Re: Solotime Series In a message dated 4/5/99 9:09:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Hottvr@aol.com writes: << I got a new Cowboy hat and some spurs! Gonna be there WOOOOOOOOOO! Mike B. TLS#1 >> No Mike, it's "YEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAW! Frank "Former Texas Region" Murphy. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:22:40 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Neons Howdy, On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Justin Hughes wrote: > I know the Neon is an excellent autocross performer, but do you ever get > bored driving such a cookie cutter car? :) Most of you have the R/T or ACR > packages, but aside from the gawdawful optional stripes on the R/T, only > someone who knows Neons quite well can eyeball one and distinguish it from > the average grocery getter What someone else thinks about my car doesn't matter at all to me. I enjoy driving my neon, I enjoy the practicality of it, I enjoy its performance (both at autox and away from it), I enjoy that a cop doesn't assume I'm speeding based on the car, and I 'enjoy' the small monthly payment. Not that you weren't just trolling of course :-) Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:25:39 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:21:35 -0500 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? Eric Linnhoff wrote: >Already did that. With a quality caliper that's accurate to 1/1000th >inch. The spring perches are in exactly (well, within 0.005") the same >position as the factory struts and the strut body is the exact same >length as the factory strut and so is the strut shaft as it extends from >within the strut body (again, within 0.005"). Then your car is legal. Ride height is not a protestable item. Illegal modifications to CHANGE ride height, OTOH, are protestable. Since you've made no illegal mods, you're cool. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:29:17 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox mailing list" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:32:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons >What someone else thinks about my car doesn't matter at all to me. I >enjoy driving my neon, I enjoy the practicality of it, I enjoy its >performance (both at autox and away from it), I enjoy that a cop doesn't >assume I'm speeding based on the car, and I 'enjoy' the small monthly >payment. Which means more money you can put into souping it up under the hood... :) >Not that you weren't just trolling of course :-) Oh, I know I'm going to get totally crushed by the many Neon drivers on here for that comment. :) So now that I've insulted everyone, how do you find the Neon holds up, quality wise? The main reason it's not currently on my list of potential Tracer replacements is the relatively poor quality that tends to come out of Chrysler. The old BMW is enough work to keep going - I want a good, practical daily driver with handling that won't disappoint me after an autocross in the BMW (the way the Tracer does). - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:38:39 1999 From: whitney To: Bret Dodson , Kevin McCormick Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:36:42 -0700 Subject: RE: Stock Car Advice I suspect some of the gearing advantage diminishes when you start utting 99's on those tall 225/50/15's, as opposed to the 225/50/14's that are available - in fact, the G-force spec sheet shows the new 225/14 to be no taller than the 205/55/14. Now the hoosier 225/45/15 would be a great sized tire for the 99 - it is very short and wide, but I don't know if anyone has tried them. Keep the 96, and drive the wheels off of it, you should be able to hold your own, or better. All the talk of geometry changes - they seem to be slight, as only the front subframes are a different part number - same a-arms and shock dimensions (except rear - longer shocks in back for more travel) Good luck Stan Whitney Ex-'96 R owner - swapped to something that isn't a bott's dot to suburbans/expeditions in rush hour traffic. The talon is more of a speed bump.... At 10:04 AM 4/8/99 -0700, Bret Dodson wrote: >On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Kevin McCormick wrote: > >> Someday Katie Edler and I will do an impromptu drag race between her '99 and >> my '95 to verify which is quicker. Hard to tell by seat of the pants - and >> mine has the full cat back Borla, so is louder, making it _sound_ faster. > >I have a '96 R. It's a smidge faster accelerating than a friend's 94 C. >When Alan got the '99, we did a few 2nd gear runs of about 20 Miles Per >Hour to redline. When the '99 had only a few hundred miles on it we would >be just about dead even. I'd find myself pulling ahead a few times (sure >made me happy) Now that Alan has racked up a few thousand miles, the '99 >will walk from my '96 like mine will walk from the '94. > >The '99 does hit the rev limiter earlier than the '96. The '99 is about a >car length or two ahead of the '96 when it hits the limiter. The '96 >appears to have a couple more mph before it hits the limiter. > >Hopping in and out of the two cars leaves me relly wanting a '99. It >leaps off the line much better than the '96. The '99 has the 4.30 rear >end compared to the 4.10 of the old cars. > >Here's some interesting power figures for the cars: >94 - 95 Miata >128 hp @ 6500 >110 ft/lbs @ 5500 > >96 - 97 Miata >133 hp @ 6500 >114 ft/lbs @ 5500 > >99+ Miata >140 hp @ 6500 >119 ft/lbs @ 5500 > >After looking at other classes, the power differences between the three >types of 1.8 Miatas isn't that big. What do other folks think? Will the >old cars be rendered completely obsolete? Is the power difference enough >to nullify driver talent from teh equation? (What I'm really asking is if >a sorta fast guy like me will still have a chance when the really fast >guys all develop the '99s) > >Maybe I should be hunting for a co-drive with Alan... > >Bret Dodson >'96 Miata R >Seattle, WA > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:38:44 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Justin Hughes" , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:35:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons Justin trolls: >Me, >well, I'm lucky if I see one other 320i like mine in a week, and even that's >rare... :) Well, it's not because those cars weren't as common as dirt when they were originally sold. It's more likely due to the fact that a minor engine overhaul costs approximately five times book retail value for the whole car. You shouldn't have too much difficulty finding junkyard parts, however.... Jay Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:46:32 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:50:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons >Well, it's not because those cars weren't as common as dirt when >they were originally sold. True... >It's more likely due to the fact that >a minor engine overhaul costs approximately five times book >retail value for the whole car. You shouldn't have too much >difficulty finding junkyard parts, however.... Also true on both counts. That's when I either sell the car or drop an M3 engine into it. Course I'd better hope I'm good enough for Prepared at that point. :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:55:23 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Justin Hughes" , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:56:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons >>I saw my car sitting sandwiched between a couple of other Neons in the >>parking lot yesterday. > >I know the Neon is an excellent autocross performer, but do you ever get >bored driving such a cookie cutter car? :) Most of you have the R/T or ACR >packages, but aside from the gawdawful optional stripes on the R/T, only >someone who knows Neons quite well can eyeball one and distinguish it from >the average grocery getter - and I admit that I'm not one who knows Neons >that well. The same can be said about the many Hondas out there as well - >who but a Honda nut can tell the base model from an EX (or the new Si)? Me, >well, I'm lucky if I see one other 320i like mine in a week, and even that's >rare... :) > > - Justin > '83 BMW 320i, HS > '95 Mercury Tracer - yes, I drive a cookie cutter too, and am just >joking around :) ===================== Oh yes, sometimes I can be sitting at a stoplight and see a Neon on each corner of the intersection. Other days I don't see any. It makes me proud to see so many other people driving them but on the other hand most of those people only bought them because they were cheap and frugal with gas. Oh wait, so did I. Along with the handling capabilities of course. When I bought my car I also test drove a lot of other cars in the same price range (CHEAP) and hands down the best performer was the Neon. Beat the pants off of the Saturns, ZX2s, Cavaliers, Sunfires, Grand-Ams, Civics, Corollas, Hyundais, Proteges, base Integras (only one near the same price) and a few other brands that I can't remember right now. You're right though, only a true Neon enthusiast can tell the difference between the base grocery getters and the fast, well handling grocery getter versions. ;^) That's part of the "sleeper" capability of the Neon. It catches MANY pony car drivers off guard and really makes them work if they wanna win the stoplight to stoplight challenges. Now I'm not saying that it can beat every car out there, far from it. But in it's price range it does quite well. Aside from the ///M cars and the different platforms I can't tell a damn 323 from a 328 or a 535 from a 540 or a 735 from a 740 or a 750 or..............don't even get me started on the models from the 80's. They ALL look alike to me. ;^) And lay off the "gawdawful" stripes, my car's ego is fairly fragile. It's just a less subtle version of the ///M badging that so many non-M Bimmers are sporting. No I didn't take this personally, I just felt chatty. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:58:39 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jay Mitchell" , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:00:12 -0500 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? >Then your car is legal. Ride height is not a protestable item. >Illegal modifications to CHANGE ride height, OTOH, are >protestable. Since you've made no illegal mods, you're cool. > >Jay ================== Ahhhh. Finally I have attained cool-ness. Only took 30 years. Dad would be proud. Hey Mike, what's your excuse? ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 12:06:25 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" , "Eric Linnhoff" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:09:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons >Beat the pants off of the Saturns, ZX2s, Cavaliers, Sunfires, >Grand-Ams, Civics, Corollas, Hyundais, Proteges, base Integras (only one >near the same price) and a few other brands that I can't remember right >now. I know from experience you're right about most of those, though I'll bet a Saturn SC2 would give you a good run for your money. They've got power, decent handling, and they're light. I'm interested to see how my friend with one does when he starts autoxing it. He won his class a couple of times in some of this winter's local ice races. >You're right though, only a true Neon enthusiast can tell the difference >between the base grocery getters and the fast, well handling grocery >getter versions. ;^) That's part of the "sleeper" capability of the >Neon. It catches MANY pony car drivers off guard and really makes them >work if they wanna win the stoplight to stoplight challenges. Now I'm >not saying that it can beat every car out there, far from it. But in >it's price range it does quite well. That is one thing I like about my Tracer - it's not powerful (base 88hp 1.9, probably makes just over 90hp or so after my minor intake mods), but only once in the 4 years I've had it have I been pulled over in it - never mind the stoplight drag races I've won despite my mimimal power just because people didn't expect it. >Aside from the ///M cars and the different platforms I can't tell a damn >323 from a 328 or a 535 from a 540 or a 735 from a 740 or a 750 >or..............don't even get me started on the models from the 80's. >They ALL look alike to me. ;^) Honestly, BMW nut that I am, neither can I aside from the badge on the back. I have to look pretty closely to tell an M3 from a 318i from the front, and even then I can't always. You're right about the 80s models too. :) >And lay off the "gawdawful" stripes, my car's ego is fairly fragile. >It's just a less subtle version of the ///M badging that so many non-M >Bimmers are sporting. Ever seen an M3 Lightweight? White with "gawdawful" ///M checkers on the left front and right rear. And I'll have you know that though my 320i came with an ///M badge on the grill, the very first mod I made to the car was removing this badge. It now makes a great decoration in my cubicle at work. :) >No I didn't take this personally, I just felt chatty. Same here. :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 12:09:36 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: Alek Tziortzis Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 13:09:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: nationals site > I thought I read it somewhere (fastrack supplementals?) back when they > signed the contract in 1996 to hold Nationals at Topeka through year 2000. Just a guess, but probably the event supplementals ... not to specify what kind of surface must be used, but to inform what surface was there. We have, in fact, not has an asphalt Nationals since #10 in Chicago 1983. That is a matter more that available sites since then -- only three: Salina E. Crawford, Salina Airport, Forbes Field -- happened to be airports, which happen to be spacious enough to embrace our circus. Gee. if by some dream scenario the Kansas Superspeedway should become the Nationals home for the new millennium (which begins in 2001, BTW, not 2000), us guys who run on concrete all year long would have to learn to run on asphalt -- instead of the other way around as it is for so many now. I like Forbes. I liked Salina. I'd like running at Kansas Superspeedway too. --Rocky BTW, for whomever it was quoting exorbitant rentals at California Speedway and las Vegas -- the former is a Penske track and the latter now owned by Bruton Smith. Kansas Superspeedway is an International Speedways property (the France family). which may be apropos of nothing, but it is at least not the same people quoting those high prices in Fontana and Vegas. And yes, 2001 does seem the likely opening date. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 12:13:45 1999 From: Troy Dudley To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Camber&Ride height I have a '97 Integra GSR. I have konis and ground control sleeves.Springs 275lb rear, 400lb front. Street rims 17in with 205/40/17,race 205/50/14 not sure about the height of the tires/rim combo. Right now with the street set-up from ground to rim front 23in rear 23 1/2in. How much lower can I take the car when I'm autox it? Or is this low enough. How much camber should I run with while racing. I also have a camber kit to correct up to -1.78 camber in the front to save the street tires. Thank you for your time. Troy Dudley csp7 TSSCC"spokes" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 12:45:31 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: jemitchell@compuserve.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:42:13 EDT Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? In a message dated 4/8/99 1:25:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: << Ride height is not a protestable item. >> Jay, This is simply not true. You mean to say that if I bought koni shocks (stock everything, straight from koni) and my car was lower due to them, I would not be protested? What about all those miatae a few years ago??!?!??! How soon we forget... Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 12:56:27 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Neons Howdy, On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Justin Hughes wrote: > Oh, I know I'm going to get totally crushed by the many Neon drivers on here > for that comment. :) So now that I've insulted everyone, how do you find > the Neon holds up, quality wise? The main reason it's not currently on my > list of potential Tracer replacements is the relatively poor quality that > tends to come out of Chrysler. The old BMW is enough work to keep going - I > want a good, practical daily driver with handling that won't disappoint me > after an autocross in the BMW (the way the Tracer does). My car has held up pretty well, but its a '98, so I wouldn't expect any problems. I've wrecked three front motor mounts. Two of those were autox induced, but one was street only. Its a weak point on the car. Mopar makes a high-perf mount, but its not stock legal. I've gotten a bit of a buzz in the dash from a trim piece around the headlight switch being a touch loose. One of these days it'll bug me enough to fix. Other than that, the car has been perfect. Other than the motor mounts, its stood up to autox very well. I also haven't heard of any weak points other than the motormount via internet stuff as well. There's also a pretty good aftermarket for neon's now. For the price, you can't beat a neon for a new autox car. You also can't beat it at most any price for combined autox/daily driver use. MHO obviously. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 13:03:22 1999 From: whitney To: Mtnman3620@aol.com, jemitchell@CompuServe.COM Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:02:11 -0700 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? I was one of the miatae 'all those years ago' - Jay is right - it's the pieces involved, not the end result in ride height - as quoted in the rule book the last few years. Even if the factory manual had a lower limit on ride height - If you could put a stock shock on in place of your trick hydraulic koni, and meet the stock spec - you would be legal (just need to carry around some stock shocks) On the miata, and I think the DSM cars too, there is no ride height dimension, just spring dimensions. All the other suspension pieces have to be in factory spec - DO NOT assume that the car gets delivered that way, you may get surprised. If you are serious - not necessarily about winning - but about keeping your trophy, check everything when you have it part, and maybe again before nationals. Stan Whitney Been there - done that - no T-shirt - no trophy. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 13:08:27 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: whitneys@mindspring.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:07:04 EDT Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? In a message dated 4/8/99 3:03:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitneys@mindspring.com writes: << On the miata, and I think the DSM cars too, there is no ride height dimension, just spring dimensions. All the other suspension pieces have to be in factory spec - DO NOT assume that the car gets delivered that way, you may get surprised. If you are serious - not necessarily about winning - but about keeping your trophy, check everything when you have it part, and maybe again before nationals. >> Well, on the DSM's rear konis, they are short 15mm from where the "nodes" support the spring perch on stock shocks. So are you saying that it's ok? I wouldn't have to make adjustments? Maybe i'm missing something here... Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 13:21:42 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:20:37 -0600 Subject: RE: Neons 1995 Plymouth Neon, 51k miles (Items replaced under warranty), 3 front hubs, 3 front motor mounts, 2 rear motor mounts, 3 struts (all rear) and 3 recalls. It has never left me stranded and I have driven the crap out of it. The rev limiter is about wore out I think. Still gets 32 MPG no matter what I do. Unless I tow the trailer then only 25. Been through 3 sets of tires and 1 set of brakes. Total cost to own has been nothing but wear items. Insurance is cheap 360.00 for the year. BTW, it's for sale or will be traded in on Saturday if the guy buy's the wife's Expedition. Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster -----Original Message----- From: Justin Hughes [mailto:ka1ult@channel1.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 11:33 AM To: autox mailing list Subject: Re: Neons >What someone else thinks about my car doesn't matter at all to me. I >enjoy driving my neon, I enjoy the practicality of it, I enjoy its >performance (both at autox and away from it), I enjoy that a cop doesn't >assume I'm speeding based on the car, and I 'enjoy' the small monthly >payment. Which means more money you can put into souping it up under the hood... :) >Not that you weren't just trolling of course :-) Oh, I know I'm going to get totally crushed by the many Neon drivers on here for that comment. :) So now that I've insulted everyone, how do you find the Neon holds up, quality wise? The main reason it's not currently on my list of potential Tracer replacements is the relatively poor quality that tends to come out of Chrysler. The old BMW is enough work to keep going - I want a good, practical daily driver with handling that won't disappoint me after an autocross in the BMW (the way the Tracer does). - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 13:23:08 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "C5 fun fest" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:21:18 -0700 Subject: C5 World Challenge Team Open House & Dyno Day! That's right, MTI Racing is having an open house and Dyno Day at it's Atlanta based headquarters this Saturday the 10th of April. We will have an assortment of food and refreshments out all day for your enjoyment. There was also a rumor that there might just be a GM celebrity making an appearance ;-) This is a very rare opportunity for a Corvette enthusiast to get a glimpse inside the workings of a Professional Racecar Fabrication shop. Normally the MTI Race shop is closed to all visitors, but this Saturday you will be able to view THREE different C5 World Challenge Racecars in various states of completion. You will see 2 of the factory built chassis supplied by GM to MTI Racing, one of them is untouched! You will also see the nearly completed and already partially tested #97 C5 that Scotty B White will drive during the 99 season. It will be a great opportunity to meet and talk with Reese Cox, the C.E.O of MTI Atlanta and 1998 Rookie of the Year in World Challenge. Reese will be available to talk about MTI Racing's Assault on the 99 SCCA Pro Racing Speedvision World Challenge series. Reese Cox and Scotty B White will contest all 10 races in World Challenge in equally prepared C5 Corvettes. All races will be televised on Speedvision and Fox Sports. After you've learned all you want to know about World Challenge, strap your car to the brand new DynoJet Chassis Dyno and learn what your car can do! MTI Atlanta will be doing Dyno pulls all day long for a mere $65 per car. C'mon by and say HOWDY! The address is: 1535 ROSEWOOD CIRCLE MARIETTA GEORGIA Phone #770-509-3494 For more info about MTI Racing: http://www.c5-corvette.com/C5_Racing.htm or http://www.c5registry.com/racinginfo/MTI/index.htm sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 13:26:50 1999 From: Michael King To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:30:15 +0000 Subject: Re: any body-men out there? Just about the same thing happened to me last week. But somebody backed into my car in a parking lot (I wasn't around), and they backed into the portion right above where the door guard would be in it weren't an ACR. What I did was this. I removed (or yanked on it) the plastic inner liner in the wheel well and proceeded to give it little pushes out with my hand and fingers. Little by little is the key here. I don't have my Neon here right now, but I think you are able to get to that area if you remove that liner. Then just push a little at a time. It is thin metal, that I discovered. Mine doesn't even show anymore. Luckily it didn't break the paint skin. For that, I would remove all the loose paint and then use some type of touchup paint from the dealer. Make sure you take all the loose pain chips off first though, or else you'll have that air space that will build up with moisture and eventually rust. I hope this helps. It does suck to have a dent, but hopefully this will be gone soon. Mike King #21 DS-97 ACR Coupe Jacksonville, FL P.S. If you ever get the chance to watch someone do paintless dent removal, it is definitely a sight to behold. Big dings and hail dents just disappear; could never tell they were there. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 13:46:45 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: Mtnman3620@aol.com, jemitchell@compuserve.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:43:17 EDT Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? In a message dated 4/8/99 11:47:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Mtnman3620@aol.com writes: << This is simply not true. You mean to say that if I bought koni shocks (stock everything, straight from koni) and my car was lower due to them, I would not be protested? What about all those miatae a few years ago??!?!??! How soon we forget... >> Jay is correct. You can't protest a "specification" like ride height, you have to protest a specific item for not conforming to ITS specification. Spring length, spring perch height, etc. have to be protested. CHD (I was on most of those protest committees) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 13:50:59 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: Smokerbros@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:48:42 EDT Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? In a message dated 4/8/99 3:43:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Smokerbros writes: << Jay is correct. You can't protest a "specification" like ride height, you have to protest a specific item for not conforming to ITS specification. >> Ok. So if I have taken measures to correct the situation with my rear shock spring perch mounts being 15mm shorter than stock, can I still be protested for the konis' spring perch mounts just being too low? Daniel "Learning more every minute...and reading along in the rule book" Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 14:19:16 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:21:06 -0700 Subject: Any left coasters with cargo space bound for Peru? Hi all, I'm looking for someone who may have available cargo space in their rig that may be bound for the Peru ProSolo that may be willing to transport an engine from the SF bay area to the Denver Colorado area. I would be more than willing to pay for the favor of hauling it from there to here. And any extra distances that you may need to cover. The shipping companies I've contacted so far are gonna charge me an arm and a leg for it. So, anyone with room in their rig that might find themselves moving in that direction? TIA, -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 14:43:40 1999 From: Chris Stupar To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:12:17 -0500 Subject: Tires and Wheels for sale I have a set of 1st generation Mazda RX-7 wheels (alloy) with Potenza Re 71 185x60-13's mounted on them for sale. The tires have about 18 runs on them and are still in pretty good condition with lots of life left in them. Also, the tires were shaved when purchased. $200 or best offer for the set. -- Chris Stupar civicdrvr@earthlink.net -or- csprx7@juno.com -or- escivic@hotmail.com Interested in aviation? Then check it out at: http://www.colstate.cc.oh.us/docs/avi/index.htm From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 15:02:44 1999 From: WHEELSPNR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:01:17 EDT Subject: Desert Development-AKA, Jerks offs .. final chapt. If ANYONE -- I MEAN ANYONE-- even thinks about doing business with Desert Development, also known as Joe's Jeeps, Artesia, New Mexico, you need to call me before you leap !!! These jerk-offs are the most UNresponsive people I've ever tried to do business with. Not only does their integrity fall somewhere between a "Clinton response of... I've NEVER had sexual relations with THAT woman" to "the check's in the mail". Joe is the owner, and I wouldn't trust that bastard no way, no how !!! Put this outfit on your list of AVOID AT ALL COSTS. JC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 15:10:17 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:11:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Desert Development-AKA, Jerks offs .. final chapt. >Joe is the owner, and I wouldn't trust that bastard no way, no how !!! > >Put this outfit on your list of AVOID AT ALL COSTS. > >JC ===================== Aww, c'mon. Don't sugar coat it. Tell us how you really feel. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 16:37:10 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:34:44 EDT Subject: See you in TX As much as I hate to drag my self away from discussions like ride height protests, Neons, old age, and other invaluable topics :-0 we are Texas bound! See you all there. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 16:45:57 1999 From: "Jan Schmidt" To: autox@autox.team.net, eric10mm@qni.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:45:33 -0500 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Eric My RX7 was raised about 1 half inch when I added my Tokico gas shocks . Everyone told me that it was because of the gas pressure. If it were just plain hydraulics , it would be at normal height! Bill Schmidt CS RX7 Kc Region K C >>> "Eric Linnhoff" 04/08 3:30 AM >>> Has anyone else put Konis on their Neon R/T? Is it just my imagination or does anybody else think their Neon actually sits a little higher with the Konis than it did with the factory R/T struts? See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 17:06:53 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:28:25 -0500 Subject: Liberty Tire...the saga continues Howdy. I just got my MC bill, and lo and behold had another $52 charge from Liberty. Has anyone else had this happen? After being told that the $118 per tire would include shipping and waiting over 6 weeks for the tires, and now this....I'm a little less than a satisfied customer. David Hawkins 85 Mr2 CSP on ever more expensive Toyo RA1s. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 17:54:49 1999 From: Sam Strano To: autox@autox.team.net, eric10mm@qni.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:55:01 -0400 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? At 05:45 PM 4/8/99 -0500, Jan Schmidt wrote: >Eric >My RX7 was raised about 1 half inch when I added my Tokico gas shocks . Everyone told me that it was because of the gas pressure. If it were just plain hydraulics , it would be at normal height! I think there are a couple of things that folks miss here. The first is that any peformance shock has more compression damping than a non-performance unit. It's the same thing when all us push on a car and go "wow, that's stiff". The weight of the car pushes down just like we do. The gas pressure runs between 125-360 psi on gas shocks. Mono-tubes like Bilstein's, some Koni's and KYB gas-a-justs are the higher end. Normal Koni's, Tokico's, and GAB's are at the low end. Now, here's the thing. If you go out to your car, and just gently lift on the fender lip, you can raise it every bit as high, and likely higher than a gas shock will. It doesn't take much at all. Conversely, it doesn't take much to push down that much either. Seals in new shocks are also very tight, that adds spring rate. My Camaro (bilsteins) sits no higher now than any one on Koni's does. Eventually, the shock will settle when the seals break in. Moral of the story, don't worry about the gas pressure. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 18:26:57 1999 From: Jim Wilson To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "autocross" Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 20:26:28 -0400 Subject: Re: any body-men out there? Are you looking for the "best" way or the easiest way? If the paint is peeling away it is just a matter of time before it rusts. There are number of levels of "fixing" the problem - and the one thing you really want to avoid is the beginning of rust. You did not say what type of car it is but if the dent is on the rocker panel under the door you are lucky because that is a least a good area to be able to hide the bodywork. If all you want to do is stop the paint from peeling and prevent the rust from starting then you should remove any of the peeling paint and sand the area down so you have what is called a "feather edge" around the damaged area - basically you do not want any hard breaks in the paint if you know what I mean - you want nice smooth edges on the repair area so that there is no way for the paint to start peeling again. Once you do this you will probably have to put some primer over the area to seal it and then spray some color over the area to blend it in. The way you can make a repair blend in to the rest of the car is to paint up to break lines in the body work. If it is a rocker panel then paint up to the top and bottom of the rocker and then try to blend in the color going back so that you cannot see the repair. Dont mask the whole area off and paint a square area like you see some people do - that just calls attention to the work. If you are going to use spray paint the stuff that you can get in the spray cans from Dupli Color is actually pretty good - in a spot like the rockers if you are careful you could probably do a good enough job so that nobody would ever notice. If you decide that you are going to fill the dent dont use the standard bondo that you get at the local Discount auto parts store - the stuff is crap. Go to a real auto body supply store and get the bondo that has aluminum filler in it. This kind of bondo is water proof because the aluminum filler does not absorb water like the filler used in standard bondo. It will help to prevent the area from rusting out later. If the area behind the rocker panel is damaged IE the undercoating is breaking off of chipped touch the area up with some of the zinc rich primer you can get from RustoLeum and then get some real rubberized undercoating in a spray can from the auto body store or from one of the restoration places like Eastwood and touch the area up - this will prevent it from rusting out from behind. Hope this helps Jim At 11:42 AM 4/8/99 , Eric Linnhoff wrote: >How-dee!!! > >At our last local event my co-driver not only managed to best my times, >a cardinal no-no if you want to co-drive someone elses car, but he >managed to smack one of our local petrified cones hard enough to dent >the rocker panel under the front passenger door panel. > >The dent doesn't bother me so much cuz it's sorta like a battle scar and >chicks dig scars. ;^) But, the paint cracked on the edge of the dent >and peeled up a little bit and currently has a little bare metal exposed >to the elements. It left a bare spot approximately 1/8" x 3" and the >paint is peeling away enough so that I could pull on it and make the >exposed bare metal area much larger. > >What's the best way for me to bandage this wound? It doesn't have to be >real pretty as it's in a location that's pretty hard to see and the >car's white so it'll be easy to match the paint. I'm somewhat >mechanically inclined but I couldn't hammer out a flat body panel if my >life depended on it. I mainly don't want the panel to rust from the >inside-out and the paint to bubble up from the rust. > >I've already purchased some touch up paint from the dealer so that >there's some chance of the paint matching the surrounding panel. > >Thanks in advance. > >See you on course. > >Eric Linnhoff in KC >#69DS TLS #13 >'98 Neon R/T > > >Drive like the wind >Straining the limits of machine and man. >Laughing out loud with fear and hope >I've got a desperate plan. >======================= >"Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 18:32:49 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:30:53 -0700 Subject: Directions to TMS from DFW Can anyone provide directions? I can't find them on the Texas Region website or on the SCCA website, nor can I seem to get Mapquest to tell me ... Thanks, Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 18:59:16 1999 From: Dustymed@aol.com To: hottvr@tfs.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:45:33 EDT Subject: Re: Texas, No Beer? In a message dated 04/07/1999 2:56:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hottvr@tfs.net writes: << No wonder they say its"Like a whole other country" >> Try Kentucky, buckee. No alcohol sales PERIOD in 80% of the state. The bible belt is alive and well (Well, its alive, at least I think it is). Mike From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 19:13:21 1999 From: washburn To: Justin Hughes Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:10:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons Justin Hughes wrote: > > >I saw my car sitting sandwiched between a couple of other Neons in the > >parking lot yesterday. > > I know the Neon is an excellent autocross performer, but do you ever get > bored driving such a cookie cutter car? :) Most of you have the R/T or ACR > packages, but aside from the gawdawful optional stripes on the R/T, only > someone who knows Neons quite well can eyeball one and distinguish it from > the average grocery getter - and I admit that I'm not one who knows Neons > that well. The same can be said about the many Hondas out there as well - > who but a Honda nut can tell the base model from an EX (or the new Si)? Me, > well, I'm lucky if I see one other 320i like mine in a week, and even that's > rare... :) > Funny thing about perspectives....I think all BMW's look alike. The Z3 notwithstanding, look at the family of Beeemers, they all intentionally look very similar. Just a different angle. :) -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 19:19:05 1999 From: Snapspinnr@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:18:00 EDT Subject: Re: Aftermarket Wheels: Konig, BBS, TSW, etc. ??? Hey I love my Konig Villains that I have on My MR2. I really like the quality and finish of them. Shawn From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 19:21:30 1999 From: washburn To: Mtnman3620@aol.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:18:30 -0500 Subject: Re: R/T sits higher with Konis? Protest? Huh? Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/8/99 3:03:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > whitneys@mindspring.com writes: > > << On the miata, and I think the DSM cars too, there is no ride height > dimension, just spring dimensions. All the other suspension pieces have to > be in factory spec - DO NOT assume that the car gets delivered that way, > you may get surprised. If you are serious - not necessarily about winning > - but about keeping your trophy, check everything when you have it part, > and maybe again before nationals. >> > > Well, on the DSM's rear konis, they are short 15mm from where the "nodes" > support the spring perch on stock shocks. So are you saying that it's ok? I > wouldn't have to make adjustments? Maybe i'm missing something here... > > Daniel Ledford > 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX Errrrnnnnnt again. All geometry must be maintained. The spring perches, mounts, and other goodies must be dimensionally as stock. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 19:46:54 1999 From: John Lieberman To: Josh Sirota Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:50:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Directions to TMS from DFW Hey, Josh I would have thought that some of the TX Region guys would have jumped on this by now but, since they haven't, my best guess would be to take the main highway (97/121) north out of the airport complex until you get to highway 114. Then head west until you get to I-35W. If you go straight across the Interstate, 114 will take you right into TMS. If you turn south on I-35W, it will take you to the HQ hotel (about 6 miles south of that intersection, I think) Hope that helps John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman Josh Sirota wrote: > > Can anyone provide directions? I can't find them on the Texas Region > website or on the SCCA website, nor can I seem to get Mapquest to tell > me ... > > Thanks, > > Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 22:40:46 1999 From: PaxsACR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:40:28 EDT Subject: Re: Neons- Quality In all fairness I have to report that at approximately 17,000 miles, my 98 ACR spun the rod bearing on the #1 cylinder. In it's defense, the car still ran another 250 miles with the bad bearing, and was still running when I put it in the shop last week for repair. All the repairs- (new crank, pistons, bearings) and labor are being covered under warranty :) and this is with the car sitting on their lift- WITH 41-DS ON THE SIDE, AND THE FULL NEON RACING CONTINGENCY PACKAGE, I quote the service writer "warranty is warranty" I love my Neon......... Pax Rolfe 98 ACR 41-DS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 06:03:02 1999 From: Brad Wager To: autox Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:03:12 -0400 Subject: Miata settings Hi I just ordered a new Miata with the sport package, and need to know a good place to start with my front and back toe settings and camber. I,ll be running Kumho,s and will 225/50/15,s fit. i already have the tires,Also i,m looking for a extra set of wheels. Brad wager Weidman Mi TLS #69 Was 300zx DS NOW I,ll be joining the Miata guys! no more neon chasing for me. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 07:04:05 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: "autocross list" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:26:29 -0400 Subject: about the sheep dude Did anyone else watching "The Century" last night notice the resemblance between the sheep dude and Eleanor Roosevelt? Bruce Wentzel Green Dot Racing, Inc. Road Race & Solo II rentals BSP 71 Corvette LS6 - the original Greendot; RX-7's; 83 ITA, 84 ITS, 86 ITS One person brake bleeding with Speed Bleeders, racer price $5.20 ea. Ask me about your opportunity to be a part of the fastest growing company in the fastest growing industry in the world!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 07:28:18 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:32:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons >Funny thing about perspectives....I think all BMW's look alike. The Z3 >notwithstanding, look at the family of Beeemers, they all intentionally >look very similar. Just a different angle. :) And a very valid one. Before I became a Bimmer nut I didn't know a 3 from a 7 either. In the parking lot here at work I walked by several as I came in, ranging from my old 3, a newer 3, some 5s, and a 750iL *drool*. Expecially from the front, the newer, bigger cars looked like, well, bigger, sleeker versions of mine. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 07:35:00 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:38:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality Thanks for the info, Pax. That's the only problem anyone's told me about other than busted motor mounts, which are somewhat common. Everyone's told me the same about the warranty, though, which I like. I've been leary of Chrysler due to their questionable quality, but if the car's that reliable, plus they're that good about the warranty, that's big points in their favor. As someone else pointed out, if BMW suspected I'd been autoxing a 318ti (another possibility), they'd probably declare it unusual usage and not cover me. And here you are with a race prepped Neon and it's still covered. :) I'm also keeping in mind that you guys are really running your Neons hard, whereas at least for starters mine will be a "spirited daily driver," something that I can toss around the back roads a bit and not be disappointed after autocrossing the old BMW the day before. I'm also keeping in mind that I could later ditch *gasp!* the old Bimmer and use the Neon as my lean mean autox machine. Don't let the BMW CCA know I said that, OK? Besides, I'd get a BMW as a new daily driver... :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 08:39:19 1999 From: Jefrem Iwaniw To: Josh Sirota Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:41:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Directions to TMS from DFW Hi Josh, This is *really* easy. 1: Take the North exit from DFW. 2: After the toll booths, you'll want to take 114 West (right exit, 270 degree turn). 3: Make sure you take the 114 fork that comes-up about 2 miles later (take one of the two right lanes). 4: Stay on 114 West for quite a while -- it quickly changes from a big highway to a rural looking road. Figure about 15-20 miles. 5: TMS will be on your right, immediately following your intersection with I-35W. There are other ways (e.g. take south exit, take 183 West, to loop 820 west, to I35W North, to TMS exit), which may be quicker during odd hours, but are generally more congested. Hope you have fun while you're here! -jef On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Josh Sirota wrote: > Can anyone provide directions? I can't find them on the Texas Region > website or on the SCCA website, nor can I seem to get Mapquest to tell > me ... > > Thanks, > > Josh > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 08:45:02 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: David Hawkins Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 07:49:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Liberty Tire...the saga continues David Hawkins wrote: > > Howdy. > > I just got my MC bill, and lo and behold had another > $52 charge from Liberty. Has anyone else had this > happen? > > After being told that the $118 per tire would include > shipping and waiting over 6 weeks for the tires, and > now this....I'm a little less than a satisfied customer. > Not over yet. You can do with your credit card company something called a "disputed billing". Send a formal letter to your Card Company in specific detail as to what what promised by the company and how that was not done, and it is very likely that the charge will be removed after they investigate. I would also send a copy to Bruce (the Liberty tire buffoon), and he would be foolish to not do as he originally promised. Anyone who deals with Liberty Tire does so at some risk these days. My Toyos (which I refused when they finally showed up) were delivered more than five weeks after being promised. In the meantime, (in only four days) after I cancelled the Liberty order, I ordered, received, and had mounted G-Forces from Discount Tire. Tire Rack could have done the same I'm sure. I'm watching my credit card statement like a hawk. :-) Good luck. Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 08:52:59 1999 From: PaxsACR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:52:40 EDT Subject: Re: Neons- Quality In a message dated 4/9/99 8:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, ka1ult@channel1.com writes: << I'm also keeping in mind that you guys are really running your Neons hard, whereas at least for starters mine will be a "spirited daily driver," >> I don't feel that this should have contributed to my bearing failure but logic says it probably did. I admittedly drive my car hard, on the street or on the course, it sees redline pretty often and sometimes the limiter if I'm trying to streach out 2nd gear to make the next corner on course. So, my hope is that my "stress testing" has just revealed a minor flaw and not a normal condition. One other Neon owner wrote me and had the same bearing go out on his 97 ACR- was also covered under warranty :) Pax Rolfe 98 ACR 41-DS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 09:15:00 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: MSanford@vninet.com Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:17:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Dogwood Grand Prix Needs you Mark, You can call The Dogwood Arts Festival at (423) 637-4561 to get the forms and much more information. Perhaps they could fax you, I'm not sure. The Event Site is at South Knoxville Connector at Sevier Avenue and Hillwood Avenue. Registration and Tech at Civic Coliseum Garage 6:30 - 10:00 pm on Friday April 16th 8-9:00 am Course opens for walk through , Saturday, April 17th 9:00 Drivers meeting 9:30 First car on course 5:30 Course closes 6:30 Awards Presentation All of this takes place in downtown Knoxville by the river. They list 3 motels for lodging suggestions: Holiday Inn Select Cedar Bluff 423-693-1011 Hampton Inn West 423-693-1101 Hampton Inn North 423-689-1011 Or call the Knoxville Visitor's Bureau at 423-523-7263 I hope this helps. Ben Thatcher From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 11:14:22 1999 From: "Ayer, John K" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:14:07 -0700 Subject: In Heaven there is no beer... Texas is QUITE the opposite. Lots o' beer there is whut I mean :) And as for Kentucky, you can't sell it if'n everyones makin' it fer themselves yonder there in the shed! Kimball Ex-Texan X1/9 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:45:33 EDT From: Dustymed@aol.com Subject: Re: Texas, No Beer? In a message dated 04/07/1999 2:56:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hottvr@tfs.net writes: << No wonder they say its"Like a whole other country" >> Try Kentucky, buckee. No alcohol sales PERIOD in 80% of the state. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 11:18:07 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: Wheel to Wheel , Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 12:18:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Protest Oil Companies The following was sent to me today by a racer friend (not the person whose name appears at the bottom ... it has apparently been through a few forwards already). It intrigues me as a unique form of boycott ... one in which the boycotted businesses actually do not lose a dime in the grander scheme of things, but still get this perceived "hit." We are all gonna buy the gas anyway, we just time-shift when we do it to leave a hole in their calendar. Interesting approach. Must be nasty on the left coast. Just got a post from someone there on an unrelated topic where he mentioned his gas prices are nearly double mine here in Middle America! Nearing $2/gal! --Rocky Entriken > >*** NOT A JOKE BUT SOMETHING THAT CONCERNS US ALL....... > > >THE GREAT "GAS OUT" > >It's time we did something about the price of gasoline >in America! We are all sick and tired of high prices >when there are literally millions of gallons in >storage. > >Know what I found out? If there was just ONE day when >no one purchased any gasoline, prices would drop >drastically. > >The so-called oil cartel has decided to slow production >by some 2 million barrels per day to drive up the >price. I have decided to see how many Americans we can >get to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day! > >Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline on APRIL >30, 1999!!!!! > >Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. Do not buy >any gasoline on FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. In fact mark >Thursday in your date book or electronic organizer so >you don't forget to fill up. And mark Friday as GAS OUT >day. > >Wanna help? Send this message to everyone you know. >Ask them to do the same. All we need is a few million >to participate in order to make a difference. > >We CAN make a difference. > >Thanks. > >Paul Forbes >Jason Mellein > > >===================================================== >Bill Dwinell >Lake Placid, Florida >bdbass@strato.net >ICQ #6973182 >For large files use: bdwinell@hotmail.com > > > >--WebTV-Mail-1464509052-9263-- > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 11:27:46 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 13:25:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Protest Oil Companies Author: Rocky Entriken wrote: >Must be nasty on the left coast. Just got a post from someone there >on an unrelated topic where he mentioned his gas prices are nearly >double mine here in Middle America! Nearing $2/gal! Gas is cheap even at $2 a gallon. Move anywhere else and see what kind of price you pay. Americans have long enjoyed artificially low gas prices. I hope it goes to $2 a gallon and stays there. Serve all the SUV drivin' folk right. Maybe car companies will start developing more fuel efficient cars, instead of just bigger cars. Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 11:49:37 1999 From: HAVOCDEAN@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:49:12 EDT Subject: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies --part1_672eca95.243f9798_boundary In a message dated 4/9/99 1:30:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com writes: << Gas is cheap even at $2 a gallon. Move anywhere else and see what kind of price you pay. Americans have long enjoyed artificially low gas prices. I hope it goes to $2 a gallon and stays there. Serve all the SUV drivin' folk right. Maybe car companies will start developing more fuel efficient cars, instead of just bigger cars. Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP >> Scott, You really hate those SUV's don't ya. My wife will continue to drive our 95 Suburban even if the price of gas goes up. I wonder what the differance of Emissions output of your EP machine compared to the EFI Suburban or my 99GMC pickup with the 5.3 SPFI engine would be? I'm sure the pickup if Far cleaner than any 1988 vehicle. Dean Sapp 95 Suburban 1500 4X4 99 GMC 1500 Pickup 4X4 ext cab --part1_672eca95.243f9798_boundary Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 13:30:08 -0400 Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu (triumph.cs.utah.edu [155.99.188.52]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA20031; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA03119; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA03091 for autox-actors; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:27:46 -0600 (MDT) From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com Message-Id: <9904099236.AA923678847@mail.gdt1.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.01.01 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 13:25:49 -0500 To: , Subject: Re: Protest Oil Companies MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-autox@autox.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com Author: Rocky Entriken wrote: >Must be nasty on the left coast. Just got a post from someone there >on an unrelated topic where he mentioned his gas prices are nearly >double mine here in Middle America! Nearing $2/gal! Gas is cheap even at $2 a gallon. Move anywhere else and see what kind of price you pay. Americans have long enjoyed artificially low gas prices. I hope it goes to $2 a gallon and stays there. Serve all the SUV drivin' folk right. Maybe car companies will start developing more fuel efficient cars, instead of just bigger cars. Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP --part1_672eca95.243f9798_boundary-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 11:51:27 1999 From: "Steven N. Burkett" To: Rocky Entriken Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:51:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Protest Internet Chain Letters THE GREAT "GAS OUT - OUT" It's time we did something about stupid e-mail chain letters in America! If you are sick of receiving this hair-brained gas boycott e-mail, go out and fill up every vehicle you can on April 30th. I subscribe to three vehicle related mailing lists, this one, an RX-7 one, and an electric vehicle one. I have seen this message (literally) 16 times in the last week. NO MORE! UNCLE! p.s. I think I'll go buy some gas power tools, and fill them up to. ;-) Steven p.s. No offense to the poster, this one just broke the camel's back... p.p.s. Forward this e-mail to everyone you know, then little Joey can get a new kidney, and you'll receive $5000 from Bill Gates! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 11:59:40 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 13:57:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies Author: writes: >You really hate those SUV's don't ya. My wife will continue to drive >our 95 Suburban even if the price of gas goes up. I wonder what the >differance of Emissions output of your EP machine compared to the EFI >Suburban or my 99GMC pickup with the 5.3 SPFI engine would be? I'm sure the >pickup if Far cleaner than any 1988 vehicle. I must say, It's not so much the vehicle, as the waste of resources. There is NO reason that ANYBODY needs to COMMUTE in a vehicle that gets 15 mpg. It just wasyeful. I have no problem with using said vehicles for hauling/towing purposes, as they were designed for this. But commuting in one? That's a simple waste of resources. As far as emmisions are concerned, you're probably right, but as far as pounds of toxins emitted, I've got you beat by a longshot. I drive the EP car to work every now and again, and that's why it still has a catalytic installed. I love fast cars as much as the next guy, but you still have a responsibility to the environment. Besides - by driving a car no one else wants, I keep it out of the junkyard. Reduce, reuse recycle. I bet if gas went to $4 a gallon like it is in most other industrialized nations, you'd be singin' a different tune. Scott From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 12:04:43 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: Rocky Entriken Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:05:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Protest Oil Companies Rocky Entriken wrote: > The following was sent to me today by a racer friend (not the person > whose name appears at the bottom ... it has apparently been through a > few forwards already). > > Must be nasty on the left coast. Just got a post from someone there on > an unrelated topic where he mentioned his gas prices are nearly double > mine here in Middle America! Nearing $2/gal! I've received four copies of this (not including yours), two from car folk, one of whom was an autocrosser. As I've replied to all those people, it seems a bit silly to complain when I'm still paying under a dollar a gallon... Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 13:18:46 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com'" , Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:15:56 -0500 Subject: RE: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies <> Now you did it! Let's talk about wasting resources while commuting. Say you have a small car, you're still moving a ton of metal to get your puny <200 pound body to work and back. Does that make sense? Try walking or riding a bike, or take mass transit. Live too far from work for those options? Move closer! Think of the resources you can save.:-) Tom Gentry (who bicycles to work some days, and drives anything he wants the other days) Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 13:29:41 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "Wheel to Wheel" , Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:27:22 -0500 Subject: RE: Protest Oil Companies > It intrigues me as a unique form of boycott ... one in which the boycotted > businesses actually do not lose a dime in the grander scheme of > things, but > still get this perceived "hit." We are all gonna buy the gas > anyway, we just > time-shift when we do it to leave a hole in their calendar. Interesting > approach. Perfect for the people who want to brag about the important things that they are doing without actually doing anything. If they actually would reduce their driving by 75% for a month, I would consider them a bit more than just noisemakers. The only ones who might notice anything at all are the clerks at some gas stations. Big message. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 13:41:54 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Tom Gentry Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 13:42:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies Tom Gentry wrote: > > <> > > Now you did it! Let's talk about wasting resources while commuting. Say you have a > small car, you're still moving a ton of metal to get your puny <200 pound body to work > and back. Does that make sense? Try walking or riding a bike, or take mass transit. > Live too far from work for those options? Move closer! Think of the resources you can > save.:-) Well gee, that's nice. -IF- you can afford to live anywhere near where you work. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 13:44:07 1999 From: John Steczkowski To: "'scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com'" , Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:41:06 -0500 Subject: RE: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies > -----Original Message----- > From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com > [mailto:scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com] > Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 1:58 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net; HAVOCDEAN@aol.com > Subject: Re: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies > > > > > > Author: writes: > > > >You really hate those SUV's don't ya. My wife will > continue to drive > >our 95 Suburban even if the price of gas goes up. I wonder what the > >differance of Emissions output of your EP machine compared > to the EFI > >Suburban or my 99GMC pickup with the 5.3 SPFI engine would > be? I'm sure the > >pickup if Far cleaner than any 1988 vehicle. > > > I must say, It's not so much the vehicle, as the waste of > resources. There > is NO reason that ANYBODY needs to COMMUTE in a vehicle that > gets 15 mpg. It Hey! How does HAVOCDEAN manage 15mpg in the city in his Suburban? I only get about 13! (ok, so it gets 17 on the highway at 85+mph)... But think of all of the vapor emmisions I don't emit while filling up since it only gets filled twice a month or so (42gallon tank). Scott also made a comment that people wouldn't drive big sport utes (why they call them SPORT utes I don't know, but anyway...) if gas cost more. I've got news for you. I moved from Austin, TX when regular unleaded was $1.10/gallon to Portland Oregon where gas was $1.50 or more a gallon. It often cost me $60/tank to fill up the Suburban. I drove it just as much and wouldn't have traded it in on anything while I was in Portland or even now that I'm back in Austin (ok, maybe an Excursion...) John Steczkowski From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 14:34:20 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:33:45 -0500 Subject: Rant (Was: Re: Protest Oil Companies) I suppose you'll really rant when you hear NATO blew up the Yugo plant. . . scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > > > > Scott Phelps > > 88 Yugo GVX EP > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 14:44:06 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:46:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Protest Oil Companies On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:41:06 -0500 John Steczkowski writes: > I moved from Austin, TX when regular unleaded was >$1.10/gallon to Portland Oregon where gas was $1.50 or more a gallon. It >often cost me $60/tank to fill up the Suburban. I drove it just as much and >wouldn't have traded it in on anything while I was in Portland or even now >that I'm back in Austin (ok, maybe an Excursion...) > > >John Steczkowski > and what if we had to pay closer to the prices in Europe....$1.50+ per LITER ! but a one day boycott of your local stop-n-rob will in no way affect the OPEC oil barrons. the low price of oil does hurt the US oil industry, causing it to shut down more and more oil wells thereby increasing our dependency and vulnerability to OPEC oil. I wouldn't like paying $2/gal but if it helps keep us a little more independent in the long run, it'll be worth it IMHO. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 14:45:06 1999 From: Ryan Tucker To: "Charles R. Schultz" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:44:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Rant (Was: Re: Protest Oil Companies) "Charles R. Schultz" wrote: > I suppose you'll really rant when you hear NATO blew up the Yugo plant. > . . Somehow, I envisioned a tree with cars growing on it, being expertly hand-picked every few days once the Yugos turn ripe. Whoo, maybe I shoulda thrown that dough out instead of making a pizza with it... -rt -- Ryan Tucker http://www.ttgcitn.com/~rtucker/ GSM/VM/Fax: +15157712865 Box 92425, Rochester NY 14692-0425 Feel free to add me to your First Degree at http://www.sixdegrees.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 15:01:22 1999 From: John Steczkowski To: "'David K Yeung'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:58:16 -0500 Subject: RE: Protest Oil Companies > -----Original Message----- > From: David K Yeung [mailto:dkyeung@juno.com] > Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 3:46 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Protest Oil Companies > > > and what if we had to pay closer to the prices in Europe....$1.50+ per > LITER ! It would cost me BIG BUCKS to put gas in the Sub... But since I've already got the thing, I just pay it. At that point, I might buy my wife a smaller car, when she didn't need the suburban.... Keep in mind, I don't know of any other vehicle (ok, now that the Excursions are coming out, there's one other vehicle) that can haul, my wife and I, 3 kids (soon to be 4), a dog, luggage and tow a trailer. Can a minivan do that? Sure without the dog or luggage, Can a station wagon do that? luggage and dog, sure, but can't fit enough passengers. I could put a rack on the top, but then that minivan would get 10mpg (worse than the suburban towing a trailer). Also, what happens when my kids want to take friends with them somewhere, how does my wife or I take 2 cars? Also, the truth of the matter is, Suburban's don't get much worse mileage than a minivan. My Mazda MPV (which I really likes). Got about 17mpg in the city and 22 on the highway. With the Sub, I get 17 on the highway and 15 in the city. Towing a 36 square foot frontal area trailer, the sub get's 10mpg, the minivan... the exact same 10 mpg. So, I'm not burning that much more gas in the Suburban than I do in a minivan. So what the heck, why not be comfortable (the sub is a much more comfortable highway car than a minivan). > > but a one day boycott of your local stop-n-rob will in no way > affect the > OPEC oil barrons. the low price of oil does hurt the US oil industry, > causing it to shut down more and more oil wells thereby increasing our > dependency and vulnerability to OPEC oil. I wouldn't like > paying $2/gal > but if it helps keep us a little more independent in the long > run, it'll > be worth it IMHO. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 15:18:17 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:16:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Protest Oil Companies Higher gas prices in Europe and eslewhere around the world aren't from OPEC dependancy or anything else, they're from higher taxes on the fuel being pumped into their cars. Their prices fluctuate with the world market pretty much as ours do (I would imagine). Anyways, y'think we could keep the roads paved if there was a little bit higher contribution towards that end by the people that used them? I heard, but don't know for sure, that highway contractors in Europe are not only responsible for construction, but for X years of maintenance on projects they gets bids on. That seems like it would make the original project a little bit higher quality. Can't happen here, though, because that would be like against some anti-trust thingie, if one contractor got to keep everybody else off his project for 20 years or so. Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT > and what if we had to pay closer to the prices in Europe....$1.50+ per > LITER ! > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 16:03:55 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 17:03:37 CDT Subject: Who sells Magnecor wires the cheapest? Yes, I'm too lazy/busy to do the research myself. Thanks in advance, -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 16:59:31 1999 From: "Steve Ostrovitz" To: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:00:26 -0400 Subject: Great gas talk! I'll be thinking of this thread when I drive down to Connecticut next week in my 15 mpg daily driver 5.7 L Tahoe, pulling my dual axle trailer, to trade my '90 CRX for a built 2 mpg 71 CP Camaro, which will require race gas at God-knows-how-much-per-gallon, that I can't even buy here in Massachusetts, so I'll have to drive BACK to Connecticut to trailer home a 55 gallon drum of hi-octane go-juice. (I can call it "go-juice" now that I'm in CP, can't I?) Steve Ostrovitz From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 19:20:05 1999 From: washburn To: Justin Hughes Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:17:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality Justin Hughes wrote: > I'm also keeping in mind that you guys are really running your Neons hard, > whereas at least for starters mine will be a "spirited daily driver," > something that I can toss around the back roads a bit and not be > disappointed after autocrossing the old BMW the day before. Be careful....you may get disappointed with the BMW. :) -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 19:42:11 1999 From: "Brett Dwyer" To: "Justin Hughes" , Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:45:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality I love my neon... but here's the scoop. I have a '99 4 door Neon Sport 5-speed that I picked up in October of 98... In November it went to the dealership for the first time because it threw the power steering belt. Two weeks later it was in again to get the new power steering pump tensioned and to replace a heat shield that was rattling and have the passenger side window re-aligned because it was leaking. I have also since replaced my front motor mount (at less than 7k miles) because it was torn. My girlfriend has a 97 base 4 door neon 5 speed with 47k miles. As we speak her car is at the dealership getting a brand new shortblock... Luckily Chrysler is paying for it even though her warranty has run out.. Through all the problems, I'm in the process of buying another and would buy a third if I had the opportunity. ---------- > From: Justin Hughes > To: PaxsACR@aol.com > Cc: autox > Subject: Re: Neons- Quality > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 9:38 AM > > Thanks for the info, Pax. That's the only problem anyone's told me about > other than busted motor mounts, which are somewhat common. Everyone's told > me the same about the warranty, though, which I like. I've been leary of > Chrysler due to their questionable quality, but if the car's that reliable, > plus they're that good about the warranty, that's big points in their favor. > As someone else pointed out, if BMW suspected I'd been autoxing a 318ti > (another possibility), they'd probably declare it unusual usage and not > cover me. And here you are with a race prepped Neon and it's still covered. > :) > > I'm also keeping in mind that you guys are really running your Neons hard, > whereas at least for starters mine will be a "spirited daily driver," > something that I can toss around the back roads a bit and not be > disappointed after autocrossing the old BMW the day before. I'm also > keeping in mind that I could later ditch *gasp!* the old Bimmer and use the > Neon as my lean mean autox machine. Don't let the BMW CCA know I said that, > OK? Besides, I'd get a BMW as a new daily driver... :) > > - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 20:22:06 1999 From: nxracer@mediaone.net (Mark Hirt) To: "Brett Dwyer" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 21:21:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:45:24 -0400, Brett Dwyer wrote: >Through all the problems, I'm in the process of buying another and would >buy a third if I had the opportunity. Before you buy another one may I suggest a web site http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer/stress.html Mark Hirt nxracer@mediaone.net http://people.ce.mediaone.net/nxracer Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 21:40:55 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: "team.net" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:40:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Rant (Was: Re: Protest Oil Companies) On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, Charles R. Schultz wrote: > I suppose you'll really rant when you hear NATO blew up the Yugo plant. > . . Mercy killing then, was it? Dale --- The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 21:47:11 1999 From: Matt Murray To: Mark Sirota Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:47:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Protest Oil Companies Rocket J.: As I replied to Mark (I had sent this to him last week) on his under taxed PA gas, in Connecticut, I cannot find 93 octane for under $1.339 (well, when I replied last week it was $1.299). Mark has forgotten what was to buy gas in CT. Ahhh, the good life of Philly. :-) Blah, blah, blah yes it is cheaper here in the US, we all know it. It always irks me when I hear reports that the price per barrel id going to go up, the local station goes up the next day. It may not be the retailer, but someone further up the supply chain sure does take advantage of the media / commodities reports. Mark Sirota wrote: > As I've replied to all those people, it seems a bit silly to complain > when I'm still paying under a dollar a gallon... > > Mark -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 21:53:12 1999 From: "Mike McLeish Sr." To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: MR2 T-Tops Question I'm requesting feedback from those familiar with the MR2T: My daughter is contemplating buying a 91 MR2 Turbo and asked my opinion as to its competitiveness in AS. It has T-Tops. Does the T-Top option make it significantly slower than the hardtop model? Is there any other reason to stay away from the T-Top option? To define "significantly" to me, maybe I should state it as: In a 50-second 2nd-gear course, is the difference A. <0.1 second (insignificant) B. >0.1 and <0.5 (hardly noticeable) C. >0.5 and <1.0 (food for thought), or D. >1.0 seconds (significantly slower)? TIA Mike McLeish Sr. ES 95 SC2 mikemel@iquest.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 22:03:00 1999 From: Matt Murray To: "Mike McLeish Sr." Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:03:44 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 T-Tops Question You can't really put a number the significant until you know how many turns the course has. The tops will introduce flex into the plus added wait. If she is a talented driver already, then look for a solid roofed car. If she is testing the "waters", then the T-topped car is fine (and a lot of fun when the temps are in the mid-seventies). To answervia the choices, maybe a "C" or "D". "Mike McLeish Sr." wrote: > I'm requesting feedback from those familiar with the MR2T: > My daughter is contemplating buying a 91 MR2 Turbo and asked my opinion as > to its competitiveness in AS. It has T-Tops. > Does the T-Top option make it significantly slower than the hardtop model? > Is there any other reason to stay away from the T-Top option? > To define "significantly" to me, maybe I should state it as: > In a 50-second 2nd-gear course, is the difference > A. <0.1 second (insignificant) > B. >0.1 and <0.5 (hardly noticeable) > C. >0.5 and <1.0 (food for thought), or > D. >1.0 seconds (significantly slower)? > TIA > Mike McLeish Sr. -- Matt Murray Former owner of a '91 and '93 T-Topped MR2 Turbo My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 22:14:09 1999 From: Matt Murray To: "Mike McLeish Sr." , autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:15:07 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 T-Tops Question It's late. Make that "weight" not wait. Ohh boy. :-( I mindlessly wrote: > You can't really put a number the "significant" part until you know how many turns > the > course has. The tops will introduce flex into the plus added wait. ^^^^^^^ -- Matt Murray mailto:mattm@optonline.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 22:28:03 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Joshua Hadler" , "Tom Gentry" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:17:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies >>Try walking or riding a bike, or take mass transit. >> Live too far from work for those options? Move closer! Think of the resources you can >> save.:-) > >Well gee, that's nice. -IF- you can afford to live anywhere near where >you work. Luckily, the cheap seats ARE close to where I work. My $78,000 house is a mile and a half from downtown. I walk or take one of the two bus lines that run a block away. The extension of my garage to 1000 square feet cost another ten grand. A house as nice as this out in the 'burbs would cost at least $150,000. And then I'd have to drive in and pay more for parking than the bus costs. Then maybe I couldn't afford to autocross at all. Horrors! I realize that those of you in Silicon Valley face different pressures. I have heard the tales of buying a crappy house in town for $300,000 and then tearing it down, just to get the lot so you could buid a nice house and not have to face the commuting traffic. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 22:28:41 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com, Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:28:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies. Slug Utility Variations At 1:57 PM 4/9/99, scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > > >Author: writes: > > > >You really hate those SUV's don't ya. My wife will continue to drive >>our 95 Suburban even if the price of gas goes up. I wonder what the >>differance of Emissions output of your EP machine compared to the EFI >>Suburban or my 99GMC pickup with the 5.3 SPFI engine would be? I'm sure the >>pickup if Far cleaner than any 1988 vehicle. Jim Rohn doubts it.... > > >I must say, It's not so much the vehicle, as the waste of resources. There >is NO reason that ANYBODY needs to COMMUTE in a vehicle that gets 15 mpg. You think a 4x4 Suburban gets that much??? think again, more like 10, and if they drive like the cell phone bimbos around here, probably be lucky to hit 8. They always hole shot us at lights. Either full throttle or none. But then I try to make sure there are no other a**wipe bimbos running red lights because they are talking to their beanie baby friend on the cell phones...ever see what a Suburban looks like after it broadsides another one?? Well you look at the exhaust first because it's on it's lid ... > It >just wasteful. I have no problem with using said vehicles for hauling/towing >purposes, as they were designed for this. But commuting in one? That's a >simple waste of resources. 1000% agree Jim Rohn Beater Racing No, we don't tow... I'd rather -drive- a car instead of a -riding- in a truck From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 00:59:47 1999 From: Clifton E Rosenberg To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:58:20 -0400 Subject: Re:MPG i have an 88 Bronco fullsize with a 5.8 ltr. and get approximately 10mph city and 13 mph on the highway..still a wonderful ride and a great tow vehicle, especially with a 10,000 lbs towing capacity. Would rather pay higher fuel costs than give it up. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 05:22:21 1999 From: HAVOCDEAN@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:21:47 EDT Subject: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies --part1_f4b5b462.24408e4b_boundary In a message dated 4/9/99 1:59:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com writes: << bet if gas went to $4 a gallon like it is in most other industrialized nations, you'd be singin' a different tune. >> Scott, Everyone is differant. Some people just hate paying for gas no matter what they drive. I don't. If gas prices doubled or tripled, I would still drive the truck, SUV, or what ever I like at the time. It's the price I have to pay for driving something I like and I'll continue to pay it. Were I live here in Maryland, I'm paying $1.06 for regular unleaded, $0.37 of which is state and fed tax per gallon!!!!! They have to be enjoying the revenue from us so called gas hogs. Dean Sapp 95 Suburban 4X4 99 GMC Pickup 4X4 98 Firechicken ( 1.2 mpg autoxing) --part1_f4b5b462.24408e4b_boundary Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd04.mx.aol.com (rly-yd04.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.4]) by air-yd02.mx.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 13:59:37 -0400 Received: from england.gdt1.com (england.gdt1.COM [208.169.201.5]) by rly-yd04.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA01313 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.gdt1.com (mail.gdt1.com [207.141.189.75]) by england.gdt1.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA07197; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:58:34 -0400 (EDT) From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com Received: from ccMail by mail.gdt1.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R6.01.01) id AA923680764; Fri, 09 Apr 99 13:59:25 -0500 Message-Id: <9904099236.AA923680764@mail.gdt1.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.01.01 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 13:57:45 -0500 To: , Subject: Re: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com Author: writes: >You really hate those SUV's don't ya. My wife will continue to drive >our 95 Suburban even if the price of gas goes up. I wonder what the >differance of Emissions output of your EP machine compared to the EFI >Suburban or my 99GMC pickup with the 5.3 SPFI engine would be? I'm sure the >pickup if Far cleaner than any 1988 vehicle. I must say, It's not so much the vehicle, as the waste of resources. There is NO reason that ANYBODY needs to COMMUTE in a vehicle that gets 15 mpg. It just wasyeful. I have no problem with using said vehicles for hauling/towing purposes, as they were designed for this. But commuting in one? That's a simple waste of resources. As far as emmisions are concerned, you're probably right, but as far as pounds of toxins emitted, I've got you beat by a longshot. I drive the EP car to work every now and again, and that's why it still has a catalytic installed. I love fast cars as much as the next guy, but you still have a responsibility to the environment. Besides - by driving a car no one else wants, I keep it out of the junkyard. Reduce, reuse recycle. I bet if gas went to $4 a gallon like it is in most other industrialized nations, you'd be singin' a different tune. Scott --part1_f4b5b462.24408e4b_boundary-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 05:59:25 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: "Mike McLeish Sr." Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:58:07 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 T-Tops Question Just be careful where you leave 'em at the autox after you take 'em off the car. A few years ago, somebody next to me, in an angled parking spot, left his t-tops on the pavement, along with some other miscellaneous stuff. When it was my turn to go on course, I got in the car and made a sharp right, right over his stuff. . . The biggest surprise was when my insurance company _didn't_ ask what the h*ll his t-tops were doing in the middle of a parking lot to begin with. I guess this applies to all your stuff, when you unload the car, actually. Have something tall enough to be seen from somebody's driver's seat if you have to put stuff in a parking space rather than off the pavement. You never know when I might be parked next to your stuff. . . -------------------- "Mike McLeish Sr." wrote: > > I'm requesting feedback from those familiar with the MR2T: > > My daughter is contemplating buying a 91 MR2 Turbo and asked my opinion as > to its competitiveness in AS. It has T-Tops. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 06:45:28 1999 From: Dustymed@aol.com To: teamunderdog_vet@juno.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:44:21 EDT Subject: Re: MPG In a message dated 04/10/1999 3:02:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, teamunderdog_vet@juno.com writes: << i have an 88 Bronco fullsize with a 5.8 ltr. and get approximately 10mph city and 13 mph on the highway..still a wonderful ride and a great tow vehicle, especially with a 10,000 lbs towing capacity. >> Cliff, You don't find the wheel base to be tad short? How large a trailer, what type? I towed a with an 89, and the 5.8 liter, I agree the power and tourque was fine, and the short WB made it great to manuever a trailer, but........ The short wheel base also made life interesting going down hill, especially when couled wiuth the high CG. I towed a two horse trailer, with front tack room, and then also an 18 foot flat bed with race car and stuff. The horse trailer was probably pushing the limits of stable towing (no pun intended), and the rig required load stabilizers, which helped. The race car rig wasn;t so bad. IMHO, I would'n recommned the Bronco for safe towing because of the WB/high CG factors, at least for a any sort of serious weight. Otherwise, I did like the truck just fine. Mike Dickerson From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 08:17:31 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Charles R. Schultz" , Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:23:53 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 T-Tops Question From: Charles R. Schultz >A few years ago, somebody next to me, in an angled parking >spot, left his t-tops on the pavement, along with some other >miscellaneous stuff. When it was my turn to go on course, I got in the >car and made a sharp right, right over his stuff. fling, itself! Don't feel like the lone ranger. A guy at one of our events had just bought a sport-ute and was not yet usd to driving one. He forgot to look in front of the truck before getting in. He drove over the hard top for my buddy's MGB. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 09:00:46 1999 From: "Scott Johnson" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:09:52 -0500 Subject: Foreign Oil David K Yeung wrote: > I wouldn't like paying $2/gal but if it helps keep us a little more >independent in the long run, it'll be worth it IMHO. Why not burn everyone elses gas and save our own? That seems like the best strategy for an independent American oil reserve-keep it in the ground. -Scott Johnson sjohnson@kcnet.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 09:28:10 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: "Brett Dwyer" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:23:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality Which begs the question...WHY!?!?!? AB Through all the problems, I'm in the process of buying another and would buy a third if I had the opportunity. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 12:53:04 1999 From: Oasis3223@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:52:38 EDT Subject: Sunday Iowa Region Event The Iowa Region will host a "Test and Tune Event" this Sunday, April 11, at Kirkwood College, in Cedar Rapids. Registration at 10:30, first car off at Noon. As this is a test and tune event, there will be plenty of track time, and no points will be awarded for any Iowa Region Awards. April 25 will be the date of another test and tune... before our season formally opens with an event May 2, at Marshalltown, Iowa. Call Bob Kistler 319-643-5421 for more info. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 13:33:20 1999 From: bob1 To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:34:07 -0700 Subject: Is a 2-seater w/ Airbag safe for kids ? When I asked a car salesman about airbag safety, he says BMW doesn't recommend allowing kids under 100lbs to ride in the front passenger seat. What're the facts from various manufacturers of the nice autox 2-seaters ? '99 Mazda, Z3, Boxster etc. ? What about the 95 Rx-7 ? I have this vauge memory that the 91-to 96 cars have bags that are totally unsafe for my kids.... Bob larson '70 911 no-aibag '97 M3 she rides in the back seat From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 14:49:46 1999 From: CS944Fla@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:49:15 EDT Subject: Had to share this So I'm driving down Blanding Blvd. sitting up pretty high in my 4x4 Chevy Ex-Cab tow vehicle, and I'm coming up to a red light. Now I'm busy checking out the cute blonde in the new silver Miata in the lane next to me. But out of my peripheral vision, I'm also paying close attention to the speed & my distance to the 2-wheeler in front off me as we come to a stop. But I'm not using my capacity for attention to detail on the cyclist. After the light turns green & traffic starts to move, I observe that the ponytailed and bearded rider in front of me is wearing one of those 1/2 shell helmets, with "biker" stickers all over it. (i.e., "Ride to live, live to ride," "Helmet Laws Suck," etc.) And he's a really husky fella with the "full sleeve" tattoos that start at the wrist and disappear up into his shirt; a tie-dyed effect T-shirt that says "Daytona 1999, 58th Bike Week", and has a big Harley-esque logo. As we start moving, the cyclist wobbles & weaves so that I get a good look at the bike from a rear 3/4's view. And I realize that he's riding a Vespa, of all things, & a full dresser no less- all the scoops & poops, flares & chairs, mirrors & geegaws. In like new condition. Shades of the "Flying Nun" or the moped scenes from "Quadrophenia". The paradox of the vehicles' image vs. that of the rider was just more than I could stand. I've been home for half an hour & I'm still chuckling. Thought it was funny, so I'm taking this chance that at least some of you will appreciate the irony enough to forgive the waste of bandwidth. OBLIGATORY AX CONTENT: The Buccaneer Region, Jax Chapter will be holding an AX on Sunday the 11th at the UNF campus. Registration should open around 8:30 & run until 10:30. Come on out, the last one we had there was a blast even though it rained most of the morning. Joe (digest mode) Anderson #33 CS 944 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 15:40:05 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: , , Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:42:48 -0500 Subject: Removing the rear wing I'm attending my first autox of the season tomorrow. I'm trying to be much more serious this year as far as being prepared and competitive. I am classed in ASP, so my questions are... The MR2 SC is WAY tail heavy and I want to reduce this. I have three thougts on this. 1. I know I can change the exhaust from the cat back as long as I meet sound requirements. Can I also remove the cat. I had read somewhere that they were changeing the rules for turbocharged cars to disallow removing the cat. Does this include supercharged cars and does this take effect this year or next? 2. Can I remove the rear wing? It was an option although all known North American SC's had them, it was listed as an option 3. Can I move the battery from the rear to the front? Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 16:12:14 1999 From: RKrytusa@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:11:43 EDT Subject: Re: Removing the rear wing In a message dated 4/10/99 5:46:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevehoult@home.com writes: << I'm attending my first autox of the season tomorrow. I'm trying to be much more serious this year as far as being prepared and competitive. >> There is no flame intended here. If you are really serious, get a rulebook. If it specifically states you can change it, you're in luck. If not, you can't. If it doesn't make sense, ask the list. HTH, rj From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 16:41:08 1999 From: N61WP@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:40:47 EDT Subject: oil prices Please buy lots of fuel! I work in the oil field, as do many of my friends. Oil prices have been the lowest in over ten years recently and are just now starting to recover. A month or two ago reg unleaded was below $1.00. A gallon jug of bottled water costs more. Many oil patch workers have lost their jobs, including many that worked directly for the oil companies. Now I'm not a fan of greedy mega corporations, but I do know what it takes to get a barrel of grease out of the ground. I can promise you that it should cost more than a gallon of water! Venting... James Coronato Fake Healey AM or EM From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 17:00:56 1999 From: Matt Kowske To: MR2 List , Autox List Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:54:44 -0500 Subject: Ring seating question The directions for the rings I installed on my pistons (Total Seal Gapless rings) say to not use synthetic oil until the rings are fully sealed. They reccommend 3000 to 5000 miles. It might take a while to put that many miles on my car! The car still uses oil but I'm hoping that's because the rings have not sealed yet. The AutoX season is fast approaching and I was just wondering if it is neccessary to not bring the car up to redline until the rings have completely sealed. Will high rev's cause damage when the rings are not seated yet? I don't want to have to start the autocross season late but will if I have to, TIA. -- Matt Kowske '86 NA - CS AutoXer '88 NA (for sale) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 19:02:47 1999 From: Tom Shirley To: Autocross List Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:08:33 -0400 Subject: Helmet Rot or "What's That Smell" A friend asked today what would get rid of the dreaded "Helmet Rot Odor". One guy said buy a new one. My wife suggested Fabreeze. I wondered if the dishwasher would help, provided there wasn't any food crud in there before you started and you shut it off before the drying cycle. What do you guys suggest? -- __ / \ /(==)\ Tom Shirley Sale Creek, TN __ .=_.--._=. __ BAD DOG Racing | |---|<| |>|---| | 1982 Royale RP31M Formula Ford | | \ \ 18 / / | | 1978 Triumph Spitfire |__|-----\<\__/>/-----|__| http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1080 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 19:46:14 1999 From: Russ McBride To: AutoX Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:45:28 -0400 Subject: Hey, Scotty *BOB* White! (Re: C5 World Challenge Team Open House & Dyno Thanks for the message about the open house at MTI Racing. I didn't know their shop was near my home. I decided to stop in. Your World Challenge car looks great. I guess there are a few more things to do to it (is a race car ever "done"?), but it looks (and sounds) ready to race. Quite a bit more advanced than my World Challenge Class B '89 Camaro from a few years ago. I like the paint scheme and minimal decals (for now, anyway). I bet you can't wait for the World Challenge season to begin. Reese Cox seems like a friendly and knowledgable guy and they have an impressive shop. Next door is Dynolab, Inc., and Arthur Mulder was nice enough to spend a lot of time talking about his chassis dyno. A lot of Corvette club members were enjoying seeing how their cars performed on the chassis dyno. The cost was pretty inviting - three runs for around $60. Arthur has set up the software to create a nice color graph of HP and torque along with a digital picture of your cars. I thought about putting my Fiat X1/9 on it, but it would have been embarassing to have the two digit horsepower figures display for everone to see :-). I'll go back when there aren't so many big V-8's around. Any enthusiast clubs around Atlanta should consider contacting Arthur for special rates - (678) 560-0692. Best of luck this year. Russ Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > That's right, > MTI Racing is having an open house and Dyno Day at it's Atlanta based > headquarters this Saturday the 10th of April. We will have an assortment of > food and refreshments out all day for your enjoyment. There was also a rumor > that there might just be a GM celebrity making an appearance ;-) > > This is a very rare opportunity for a Corvette enthusiast to get a > glimpse inside the workings of a Professional Racecar Fabrication shop. > > Normally the MTI Race shop is closed to all visitors, but this Saturday > you will be able to view THREE different C5 World Challenge Racecars in > various states of completion. You will see 2 of the factory built chassis > supplied by GM to MTI Racing, one of them is untouched! You will also see > the nearly completed and already partially tested #97 C5 that Scotty B White > will drive during the 99 season. > > It will be a great opportunity to meet and talk with Reese Cox, the C.E.O > of MTI Atlanta and 1998 Rookie of the Year in World Challenge. Reese will be > available to talk > about MTI Racing's Assault on the 99 SCCA Pro Racing Speedvision World > Challenge series. Reese Cox and Scotty B White will contest all 10 races in > World Challenge in equally prepared C5 Corvettes. All races will be > televised on Speedvision and Fox Sports. > > After you've learned all you want to know about World Challenge, strap > your car to the brand new DynoJet Chassis Dyno and learn what your car can > do! MTI Atlanta will be doing Dyno pulls all day long for a mere $65 per > car. C'mon by and say HOWDY! > > The address is: > 1535 ROSEWOOD CIRCLE > MARIETTA GEORGIA Phone #770-509-3494 > > For more info about MTI Racing: http://www.c5-corvette.com/C5_Racing.htm > or http://www.c5registry.com/racinginfo/MTI/index.htm > > sbw From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 20:02:28 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "Russ McBride" , "AutoX" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:59:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Hey, Scotty *BOB* White! (Re: C5 World Challenge Team Open House & Dyno Day) Thanx Russ, I am glad you enjoyed yourself! The gang at MTI is a great bunch and I can hardly wait for the season to start. I am flying to Atlanta to drive around a little in #97 ;-) I'll letya all know how it goes! sbw -----Original Message----- From: Russ McBride To: AutoX Cc: 'W2W' Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 6:48 PM Subject: Hey, Scotty *BOB* White! (Re: C5 World Challenge Team Open House & Dyno Day) >Thanks for the message about the open house at MTI Racing. I didn't know their >shop was near my home. I decided to stop in. > >Your World Challenge car looks great. I guess there are a few more things to do >to it (is a race car ever "done"?), but it looks (and sounds) ready to race. >Quite a bit more advanced than my World Challenge Class B '89 Camaro from a few >years ago. I like the paint scheme and minimal decals (for now, anyway). I bet >you can't wait for the World Challenge season to begin. > >Reese Cox seems like a friendly and knowledgable guy and they have an impressive >shop. Next door is Dynolab, Inc., and Arthur Mulder was nice enough to spend a >lot of time talking about his chassis dyno. A lot of Corvette club members were >enjoying seeing how their cars performed on the chassis dyno. The cost was >pretty inviting - three runs for around $60. Arthur has set up the software to >create a nice color graph of HP and torque along with a digital picture of your >cars. I thought about putting my Fiat X1/9 on it, but it would have been >embarassing to have the two digit horsepower figures display for everone to see >:-). I'll go back when there aren't so many big V-8's around. Any enthusiast >clubs around Atlanta should consider contacting Arthur for special rates - (678) >560-0692. > >Best of luck this year. > > Russ > > > >Scotty *BOB* White wrote: > >> That's right, >> MTI Racing is having an open house and Dyno Day at it's Atlanta based >> headquarters this Saturday the 10th of April. We will have an assortment of >> food and refreshments out all day for your enjoyment. There was also a rumor >> that there might just be a GM celebrity making an appearance ;-) >> >> This is a very rare opportunity for a Corvette enthusiast to get a >> glimpse inside the workings of a Professional Racecar Fabrication shop. >> >> Normally the MTI Race shop is closed to all visitors, but this Saturday >> you will be able to view THREE different C5 World Challenge Racecars in >> various states of completion. You will see 2 of the factory built chassis >> supplied by GM to MTI Racing, one of them is untouched! You will also see >> the nearly completed and already partially tested #97 C5 that Scotty B White >> will drive during the 99 season. >> >> It will be a great opportunity to meet and talk with Reese Cox, the C.E.O >> of MTI Atlanta and 1998 Rookie of the Year in World Challenge. Reese will be >> available to talk >> about MTI Racing's Assault on the 99 SCCA Pro Racing Speedvision World >> Challenge series. Reese Cox and Scotty B White will contest all 10 races in >> World Challenge in equally prepared C5 Corvettes. All races will be >> televised on Speedvision and Fox Sports. >> >> After you've learned all you want to know about World Challenge, strap >> your car to the brand new DynoJet Chassis Dyno and learn what your car can >> do! MTI Atlanta will be doing Dyno pulls all day long for a mere $65 per >> car. C'mon by and say HOWDY! >> >> The address is: >> 1535 ROSEWOOD CIRCLE >> MARIETTA GEORGIA Phone #770-509-3494 >> >> For more info about MTI Racing: http://www.c5-corvette.com/C5_Racing.htm >> or http://www.c5registry.com/racinginfo/MTI/index.htm >> >> sbw > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 20:11:24 1999 From: Dick Rasmussen To: Tom Shirley , Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:11:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Helmet Rot or "What's That Smell" At 09:08 PM 4/10/99 -0400, Tom Shirley wrote: >A friend asked today what would get rid of the dreaded "Helmet Rot >Odor". One guy said buy a new one. My wife suggested Fabreeze. I >wondered if the dishwasher would help, provided there wasn't any food >crud in there before you started and you shut it off before the drying >cycle. What do you guys suggest? >-- Tom, Pegasus sell something called "Helmet Fresh" spray, page 6 of the 99 catalog. Why don't you try it and let us know how it works :-). I haven't tried the dishwasher approach, sounds too severe for the foam, stickers, etc. I have carefully handwashed using mild laundry or dish soap. Try something with no scent or you will trade "BO" for "soap" in my very limited experience! Dick Rasmussen CM 85 85 Van Diemen RF-85 Formula Ford From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 20:55:51 1999 From: Ryan Tucker To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:55:36 -0400 Subject: Major decisionmaking time. So I'm in the process of moving to Rochester NY. I'm technically already moved, but I'm low on belongings -- computer, CD's, air mattress, car, and some clothes are it. Since fitting a queen-sized bed in a Neon is against a few laws (look in the Physics and Common Sense lawbooks), I'm having to use the resource-moving equipment of my parents (and, of course, them). Anyway, I want to get stuff moved as soon as possible. I miss my bed, my cat, my Debbie Does Motorsports videotape collection, etc. However, I run into a problem. And this is where autox comes in. Next Sunday is the first solo II event of the season. My car is hungry for some orange rubber, and she's really wanting to have some fun this weekend. But that'd mean strange schedule problems -- unless I want to wait until next month, I'd have to -- you guessed it -- be at home loading stuff up next weekend. Now, what would ya'll recommend: - Move stuff - Autox Now remember... I'm missin' my cat here. I hitched a ride home with my roommate this weekend, so I'm pretty good for awhile, but there's still the bed issue. Air mattresses are evil and vile for anything except short-term emergency use. They're one of those things you keep in your emergency bag -- yaknow, the bag you keep in your car for emergencies. The one with wrenches, a helmet, a change of clothes, some shoe polish, a portable tire inflator... ... but I digress. So please, help me decide. :-) -rt -- Ryan Tucker http://www.ttgcitn.com/~rtucker/ GSM/VM/Fax: +15157712865 Box 92425, Rochester NY 14692-0425 Feel free to add me to your First Degree at http://www.sixdegrees.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 22:15:47 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: "Matt Murray" , Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:07:52 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 T-Tops Question >You can't really put a number the significant until you know how many turns the >course has. The tops will introduce flex into the plus added weight. If she is a >talented driver already, then look for a solid roofed car. If she is testing the >"waters", then the T-topped car is fine (and a lot of fun when the temps are in >the mid-seventies). To answervia the choices, maybe a "C" or "D". Having taken sawzall to both Sunroof and T top MR2s, I can tell you that if you take out the tops, the T top car will be lighter (for identical cars save T top). The roof rails in these cars is incredibly thick, with the beams on each side of the roof probably coming in at about 5 lbs each for just section over the door windows. You do get added flex, but it isn't that significant. Mike Eckert and Brian Priebe campaigned a T top car last year and Brian bested Kevin Bailey in it....no small feat in a car that you're calling about a second slower. If I were to choose from the multiple guess, I'd go A or B. David Hawkins 93 MR2 Turbo T top 85 MR2 Hard top 2 91 MR2 Sunroof parts cars 1 91 MR2 T top parts car >> In a 50-second 2nd-gear course, is the difference >> A. <0.1 second (insignificant) >> B. >0.1 and <0.5 (hardly noticeable) >> C. >0.5 and <1.0 (food for thought), or >> D. >1.0 seconds (significantly slower)? >> TIA >> Mike McLeish Sr. > >-- >Matt Murray >Former owner of a '91 and '93 T-Topped MR2 Turbo >My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net >It was mattm@nassau.cv.net >Please note the change in your address books > >As always, work is: >mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 22:36:10 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: "Steve Hoult" , , Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:26:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Removing the rear wing >1. I know I can change the exhaust from the cat back as long as I meet sound >requirements. Can I also remove the cat. I had read somewhere that they were >changeing the rules for turbocharged cars to disallow removing the cat. Does >this include supercharged cars and does this take effect this year or next? It's just a proposal, and I don't expect it to get passed without a HUGE fight. As it was written, it was turbo cars only. You're free to do what I'm planning on the 85, which is a TRD header to a SuperTrapp right out the middle in the back. >2. Can I remove the rear wing? It was an option although all known North >American SC's had them, it was listed as an option According to my 1988 Brochure, the Aerodynamic Spoiler Package was a standard item on all SC cars. That being the case, and with the SC being on its own line in the rule book, the wing has to stay. It doesn't weigh that much. >3. Can I move the battery from the rear to the front? You sure can, just not into the passenger compartment. David Hawkins 93 Mr2 Turbo ASP 85 Mr2 CSP/ITA Gulf Coast Region Solo II Co-chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 23:36:03 1999 From: "Richard Beecher" To: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:19:53 -0400 Subject: Corvette rear hub bearing torque Can anyone with a shop manual for the '93 Corvette coupe furnish me with the torque specification for the rear hub bearing nut? I'm replacing the bearing assembly and want to be sure I get it right this time. (unlike the ham fisted mechanic who apparently used an impact wrench last time) Also, if anyone has stock alignment settings that would be a big help as well. And yes, I'm in the market for a factory shop manual. Thanks, Richard Beecher dick@gate.net 954-452-8340 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 06:54:00 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "David Hawkins" , , Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:56:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Removing the rear wing >>2. Can I remove the rear wing? It was an option although all known North >>American SC's had them, it was listed as an option >According to my 1988 Brochure, the Aerodynamic Spoiler Package was >a standard item on all SC cars. That being the case, and with the SC being >on its own line in the rule book, the wing has to stay. It doesn't weigh >that much. Thanks Dave. I also remembered that I had access to an original window sticker. It lists the aero package as standard also. Looks like the wing stays.... Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 06:56:08 1999 From: Paul Czarnecki To: Matt Murray Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:54:12 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 T-Tops Question >It's late. Make that "weight" not wait. Ohh boy. :-( So, they are the same thing when racing, right? :-) :-) pZ -- Paul Czarnecki Listen. Do. MacSpeech. http://www.macspeech.com/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 07:39:03 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: Jim & Marilyn Rohn Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:37:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies. Slug Utility Variations Jim & Marilyn Rohn wrote: > > > It > >just wasteful. I have no problem with using said vehicles for hauling/towing > >purposes, as they were designed for this. But commuting in one? That's a > >simple waste of resources. > > 1000% agree Well, I might agree -- if you count "hauling people" as "hauling". We often need to haul 7 or 8 people somewhere. What's more wasteful: 7 people in an Expedition getting 13mpg or 2 people in a 911 getting 17mpg and 5 people in a M3 getting 19mpg? (The two cars together get a combined 8mpg and produce twice the emissions.) OTOH, we often _do_ take the two sportscars in situations like that because its a lot more _fun_, but it would be less _wasteful_ in a purely economic/enviro sense to take the behemoth. Now if someone would convert a 5-passenger sedan into a wagon/SUV that would comfortably carry 7 or 8, then I'd think you'd have a good argument for the elimination of the monster truck-based 4x4's from most city scapes. (Although people like me who go to Colorado 10 weeks a year may still need one.) Brian > I'd rather -drive- a car instead of a -riding- in a truck Agreed. I'd rather -drive- a good sportscar than slosh around in a cushy wannabe. (My behemoth SUV handles better than some of the pathetic GM sedans I've driven recently. Sheesh.) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 08:33:46 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:25:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality >Be careful....you may get disappointed with the BMW. :) I don't see that happening. >:) I drove my Tracer and BMW back to back on test runs of our new course yesterday, and there's no way I'll ever be satisfied autoxing the Tracer again. A Neon would be much better suited for it, but kicking the tail out is fun, and understeer isn't! :) Simply IMHO - some restrictions may apply. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 09:24:06 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "Tom Shirley" , Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:21:14 -0500 Subject: RE: Helmet Rot or "What's That Smell" > A friend asked today what would get rid of the dreaded "Helmet Rot > Odor". One guy said buy a new one. My wife suggested Fabreeze. I > wondered if the dishwasher would help, provided there wasn't any food > crud in there before you started and you shut it off before the drying > cycle. What do you guys suggest? Even though we really don't expect to need it in autocross, would you want to possibly degrade the materials in the helmet and liner by putting it in a dishwasher? I would recommend working in a strong solution of non-scented dish washing liquid through the soft pads and any porous surfaces in the helmet. I think that Formula 409 or Dow bathroom cleaner would do an even better job of removing skin oils and other yuccy stuff, but the last trace amounts of them left in the helmet may drive you crazy from the scent. There are a number of laundry products that are generally safe for clothes and should be safe for the helmet materials which claim to remove oils and perspiration. If you can get it close to clean, then you might want to try one of the fabric odor removers. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 09:53:12 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:51:21 EDT Subject: Fwd: Helmet Rot or "What's That Smell" --part1_3f958091.24421ef9_boundary --part1_3f958091.24421ef9_boundary Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: RacerRay52@aol.com From: RacerRay52@aol.com Full-name: RacerRay52 Message-ID: <3f958091.24421af6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:34:14 EDT Subject: Re: Helmet Rot or "What's That Smell" To: bfuhrman@isd.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Reply-To: RacerRay52@aol.com I was given a well used helmet which had some odor. I sprayed the interior with lysol spray and another similar product and gave it some time to air out the spray odors and it worked pretty well. Ray Elliott --part1_3f958091.24421ef9_boundary-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 13:04:15 1999 From: "Brett Dwyer" To: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:06:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality they are a BLAST... The problems are mostly little annoyances and chrysler stands behind them. Find me another brand new car that I can find for 12 grand WITH a 3 yr 36k mile warranty that will do mid 15's in the 1/4 mile and handle VERY well in the twisties (with new tires)... ---------- > From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com > To: Brett Dwyer > Cc: autox > Subject: Re: Neons- Quality > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 11:23 AM > > > > Which begs the question...WHY!?!?!? > > AB > > > Through all the problems, I'm in the process of buying another and would > buy a third if I had the opportunity. > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 13:08:15 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: , "TEAM.NET" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:50:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoosier 225/45/15 tires on a 7" rim??? That's a common setup on ITS RX7's Bruce Wentzel Green Dot Racing, Inc. Road Race & Solo II rentals BSP 71 Corvette LS6 - the original Greendot; RX-7's; 83 ITA, 84 ITS, 86 ITS One person brake bleeding with Speed Bleeders, racer price $5.20 ea. Ask me about your opportunity to be a part of the fastest growing company in the fastest growing industry in the world!! -----Original Message----- From: Tesec@compuserve.com To: TEAM.NET Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 6:14 PM Subject: Hoosier 225/45/15 tires on a 7" rim??? >Hi, > >Today I got a pair of Hoosier 225/45/15 tires for the >front of my RS. They are WIDE!!! Seems like they would be >perfect on an 8" rim. Specs say 7-9". Has anyone run them >successfully (or not!) on a 7" rim?? I could run them on an 8 >for autox, but would be tough and twitchy on the track with all >that offset (8s have the extra inch on the outside). > >Last year I ran 225/50/16 on the front but wanted to try the shorter tires >for lowering the car, shorter sidewall, and less weight. I will use >245/45/16 on the rear for now (may try the 275/34 on the rear for autox >later in the year). > >I may try to get them mounted Thurs, my tire guy will surely freak out >though... > >Regards, mike piera AnalogMike@aol.com '72 911S Targa, '73 911RS Replica > > ~^v^~ aNaLoG.MaN ~^v^~ vintage guitars www.analogman.com > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 14:11:15 1999 From: NASA-VA Jon Felton To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:10:05 -0400 Subject: Pylon sources? Any suggestions on an inexpensive source for pylons? Please reply privately. Thanks, Jon Felton, Director National Auto Sport Assoc - VA Region http://am.net/nasa next autox: 4/18 at Virginia Motorsports Park (Petersburg ProSolo site) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 20:15:31 1999 From: rjohnson@friendlynet.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:16:28 -0500 Subject: Texas Tour News? Here it is - 10 PM Sunday - and not one word about the tour event in Texas. No standings from Saturday - no preliminary results - nothing. Take pity on we who wanted to be there..... Rogr (Ohio) Johnson From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 20:34:42 1999 From: Kevin Bailey To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:31:53 -0600 Subject: RE: Texas Tour News? Dear Rogr (a new name to confuse the competition?...) & all And I thought I was the only one feeling abused...8^) Had to make do with a windy local event today. Had 120 entrants and this was our last 'winter' event. Lots of newbies. Got to Bandimere at 7 AM and there were a lot of construction trucks and paving equipment covering the site we were to use....but in the end we worked things out. Had a very long and skinny offset course with a crossover near the start/finish area which made it hard to get but 2 cars on course. Very cone intensive course, too. I kept running over the bases of the darn things... Hope to get that out of my system before the Pro Solo in Atwater! Anyway---let's hear about what a great event we missed in the great state of Texas! -Kay Bailey ---------- From: rjohnson@friendlynet.com[SMTP:rjohnson@friendlynet.com] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 9:16 PM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: Texas Tour News? Here it is - 10 PM Sunday - and not one word about the tour event in Texas. No standings from Saturday - no preliminary results - nothing. Take pity on we who wanted to be there..... Rogr (Ohio) Johnson From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 20:48:38 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Justin Hughes" , Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:51:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality From: Justin Hughes >A Neon would be much better suited for >it, but kicking the tail out is fun, and understeer isn't! If you think understeer is a given in a Neon, you have not driven Washburn's ACR. Kicking out the tail of a RWD car with power IS fun. I just don't think it is particularly fast in most autocross circumstances. Phil "autocrossed FWD, RWD and AWD" Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 21:30:56 1999 From: "James Rogerson" To: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:29:43 -0500 Subject: SUV's and mileage I have a '96 Tahoe 4X4 it gets 14.8 to 15.4 in town (Houston) and 18.3 to 19.1 on the highway. Towing it gets 13.8 to 14.1, in hill country it will drop to the high 12's. My wife drives an '80 Pathfinder. It gets 15 in town and 19 on the highway. It RAINS here, 8 inches an hour, often. I have never been flooded since going to a SUV. If you want to do something about gas and pollution quit driving, lead by example or quit the idle bitching. Josh, if you dumped all your cars you could afford to live somewhere else. James Rogerson BSP - 240Z; EM - SPL311RX7 Affiliations: Team Laughing Stock #18; Old Fartz #86; Techless Enginerring Nails are Glue, Tape is welding! ¡Si no desea trabajar, vaya se!  http://www.ptra.com/jwalter From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 21:57:57 1999 From: Matt Murray To: rjohnson@friendlynet.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:58:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Texas Tour News? Maybe Texas hasn't heard about this Internet thingie. =8^O rjohnson@friendlynet.com wrote: > Here it is - 10 PM Sunday - and not one word about the tour event in > Texas. > No standings from Saturday - no preliminary results - nothing. > > Take pity on we who wanted to be there..... > > Rogr (Ohio) Johnson -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 22:14:35 1999 From: Eric Moon To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:10:33 -0400 Subject: Miata Top...SECURE??? I drove my '92 Miata in an event today where I was given grief for having my top down, but not secure. Secure? You mean putting a vinyl boot cover over a convertible top makes it secure? Since I didn't have my boot cover, I was instructed to run with my top up. Have you ever heard of this? As far as I can remember, guys run without their boot cover all the time. People running rollbars almost can't use the boot. Was this guy just giving me a hard time over nothing? Eric Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com Eric Moon: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 22:19:32 1999 From: Jim Ourand To: Matt Murray Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:18:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Texas Tour News? Maybe it was such a BBBBBIIIIGGGGG course, and they are still running. Matt Murray wrote: > > Maybe Texas hasn't heard about this Internet thingie. =8^O > > rjohnson@friendlynet.com wrote: > > > Here it is - 10 PM Sunday - and not one word about the tour event in > > Texas. > > No standings from Saturday - no preliminary results - nothing. > > > > Take pity on we who wanted to be there..... > > > > Rogr (Ohio) Johnson > > -- > Matt Murray > > My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net > It was mattm@nassau.cv.net > Please note the change in your address books > > As always, work is: > mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com -- Jim Ourand, Old Fartz, DCCSD Pro Image Signs & Banner (619) 265-2052 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 22:36:24 1999 From: Streldoc@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:35:52 EDT Subject: Dallas Tour Results The best I can do, as I have to be up at 4:30 AM to work SS: !st -Erik Strelnieks ( RX7 - Hoosiers) 2nd -Mike McClure (Corvette/RX7 - Kuhmos/GForces) 3rd - Steve Waters (Vette-Kuhmos) SSL 1st - Beth McClure (RX7 - GForces) 2nd - Bev Lanndeck (RX7 - Gforces) 3rd- Donaleigh Engstrom (Vette- Hoosiers) AS 1st - GH Sharp (M3 - Gforces) 2nd - Brian Flanagan (M3 - Gforces) 3rd -Paul Brown (MR2 - Gforces) 4th - Mark Sipe (Z3 - Hoosiers) ASL 1st Merredith Brown ( MR2 - Gforces) BS 1st - Darrrin Disimo (99 Miata - Kuhmos/ Hoosier --ran 225/50 15 2nd day to come from behind win) 2nd-Byron Short (99 Miata - Hoosier ran 205/50 15) 3rd- Rick Cone (99 Miata - Gforces) BSL 1st - Yvonne Short (M/H) 2nd - Sandy Pessoney (M/ G) CS 1st Eric Jones (MR2- Old BFG) DS 1st Bud Collings ( Neon/ Gforces) 2nd Jeff Jacobs (Neon/ Gforces) ES- Jerry Terranova _Civic SI FS - 1st Chris Ramey- Camaro GS- Neal Bellamy (Camaro) HS 1st Ron Williams 2nd Andy Hollis CSP 1st Bret Norgard (In Luis' Car) 2nd -Luis Moreno 3rd- Victor Lutan DSP-Steve Holscher ESP- Mark Madarash CP -1st Ron VerMulm 2nd Vitek Boruvka 3rd Tommy Regan EP -1st John "who else" Thomas 2nd Tom Lombardo 3rd Grady Wood EPL 1st Karen Christoff DP 1st Stan "it's for sale" Whitney 2nd Richard Holden -in Stan's car that is for sale CM 1st Guy Ankeny 2nd Tommy Saunders Good Night and sorry if any mistakes and the ones I left out that won 2 of the best Solo 2 courses that I have every run by Roger Johnson Perfect Weather and a great sight and Host Region.. Erik Strelnieks From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 22:46:43 1999 From: CSRX7@aol.com To: bob1@structured.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:45:02 EDT Subject: Re: Is a 2-seater w/ Airbag safe for kids ? In a message dated 4/10/99 12:39:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bob1@structured.net writes: > When I asked a car salesman about airbag safety, he says BMW doesn't > recommend allowing kids under 100lbs to ride in the front passenger seat. > What're the facts from various manufacturers of the nice autox 2-seaters ? > '99 Mazda, Z3, Boxster etc. ? What about the 95 Rx-7 ? I have this > vauge memory that the 91-to 96 cars have bags that are totally unsafe > for my kids.... There are currently no airbags that are safe for kids, unless they have the ability to be disabled when the child is in the passenger seat. You will notice that all current model vehicles with no rear seat (pickups, sports cars, etc.) have a passenger bag shutoff switch. There were many such vehicles produced for a few years that lacked that feature, but anything with only front seats produced for '99 and most or all such vehicles in '98 do have the switch. I can't name specific models, and can't recall the data for '97 models, but the switch is in the interior of the vehicle and in an obvious place so it wouldn't be hard to find. It is a key-switch, by the way. Never, never, never put a child in a location that would expose him/her to an airbag deployment. Even at parking lot speeds they can often deploy, and it is very common for them to deploy in collisions far too minor to be appropriate. As "smart bags" further develop they might prove to be safer in every situation, but for now I don't believe in bags, except in life-threatening impacts. The problem, however, is that the technology to date is not entire trouble-free, and they (Bags) usually deploy when they don't need to (They should only deploy if you, the occupant, would have physically impacted the steering wheel, instrument panel or windshield). For this reason, I don't own any SRS-equipped vehicles. Good luck in your search. Todd Cameron From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 23:50:25 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:22:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Texas Tour News? It's after midnight, I am one tired sob, my spouse is p***ed, my car broke, unable to make last run, I'm sunburned, I woke the nighbors unloading the car off the trailer, but other than that, it was one hell of a weekend! Temps in the 80s both days, although cool in morning and evening. Great 77 second (about average) course by Roger the real, one of the best he has ever done, and 266 total entries, making this the third largest Tour event ever! Laps on TMS high banks were an absolute blast! Ok, enough of the BS. You wanna know who won.... SS 14 drivers Streldoc-RX7 Mike McClure-RX7 Steve Waters-Corvette Kenny Baker-RX7 Bob Landeck-RX7 SSL 3drivers Beth McClure-RX7 AS 15 drivers GH Sharp-M3 Brian Flanagan-M3 Paul Brown-MR2 Mark Sipe-Z3 Coupe Steve Sucsy-MR2 BS 24 drivers Darin Disimo Byron Short-led Saturday, but lost by .1 Sunday Rick Cone Tim Pryor John Joyce Ben Drerup Dan Pedroza All of the above were driving Miatas BSL 4 drivers Yvonne Short Sandy Pessony CStock 10 drivers Eric Jones MR2 Randy Keeton-MR2 Bill Trimble-MR2 Sean Scott-MR2 CSL 3 drivers Jennifer Maxey DS 6 drivers Bud Collins-Neon Jeff Jacobs-Neon DSL 4 drivers Ann Heller-Neon Lynn Clark-Neon EStock 6 drivers Gerry Terranova-Civic Ken Deja-GTI FStock 12 drivers Chris Ramey-Camaro Casey Weiss-Camaro Wally Strzelec-Camaro Denny Feigenspan-Camaro G Stock 4 drivers no Talon/Eclipses Neal Bellamy-Camaro Tom Maycock-Probe GT H Stock 7 drivers Ron Williams- Mazda Andy Hollis-Mazda Russ Blume-Mazda ASP 11 drivers Joe Wilkinson-Porsche Steven Kan-RX7 Scott Bowman-RX7 Curt Bennettr-Viper BSP 2 drivers Bill Thompson-Corvette CSP 18 drivers Bret Noorgard-CRX Luis Moreno=CRX Victor Lutan-RX7 Victor Lutan-RX7 Benny Dement-RX7 Fred Uptagrafft-Miata Wayne Hopkins-RX7 DSP 6 drivers Steve Hoelscher-x19 Jerry Irvine-VW GT ESP 15 drivers Mark Madarash-Trans Am Wayne Sartori-Camaro Tom Ramey-Camaro Mac Crossett-Eagle Talon Bill Gutierrez-Camaro AP 6 drivers Peter Fehn-RX7 David Butler-RX7 APL 2 drivers Heather Holt-280Z BP 4 drivers Sam Platt-Corvette Jose Gonzalez-Corvette C Prepared 17 drivers Ron Vermulm-Camaro Vitek Boruvka-Camaro Tommy Regan-Mustang Todd Farris-Trans Am Kurt Janish-Camaro CPL 2 drivers Whitney Young-Trans Am D Prepared 4 drivers Stan Whitney- CRX Richard Holden-CRX EPrepared 98 drivers (Grady Wood broke on Saturday) John Thomas-Civic Tom Lombardo-Civic Grady Wood-Civic (borrowed car on Sunday) EP L 2 drivers Karen Christoff-Civic B Mod 5 drivers Bruce Domeck Eric Pettigrew CMod 12 drivers Guy Ankeny Tommy Saunders Bruce dickey Stuart Lumpkin EMod 7 drivers Tony Carter-Austin Healy Larry Everitt-Mazda Chevy Wayne Everitt-Mazda Chevy F Mod 6 drivers Eddie Hernandez Gary Kramar F125 8 drivers Darrin Towers Mike Hesse Mike Lowe Formula Jr. 2 drivers Karl Wamble Street Touring 4 drivers Chris Fleming- Subaru RS 2.5 Lance Schueneman-Neon I'm sleepy, going to bed....................................... Phil O. -----Original Message----- From: rjohnson@friendlynet.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 10:18 PM Subject: Texas Tour News? > > > Here it is - 10 PM Sunday - and not one word about the tour event in >Texas. >No standings from Saturday - no preliminary results - nothing. > > Take pity on we who wanted to be there..... > > Rogr (Ohio) Johnson > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 00:19:05 1999 From: Alan Dahl To: bob1 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:04:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Is a 2-seater w/ Airbag safe for kids ? At 12:34 PM 4/10/99 -0700, you wrote: >When I asked a car salesman about airbag safety, he says BMW doesn't >recommend allowing kids under 100lbs to ride in the front passenger seat. >What're the facts from various manufacturers of the nice autox 2-seaters ? >'99 Mazda, Z3, Boxster etc. ? What about the 95 Rx-7 ? I have this >vauge memory that the 91-to 96 cars have bags that are totally unsafe >for my kids.... The '99 Miata has a passenger airbag defeat switch so it's not an issue for it. - Alan Dahl ---------- ___ ____ Alan Dahl | home: adahl@eskimo.com /_ / / / Federal Way, WA, USA | work: Alan.Dahl@PSS.boeing.com / / _/__/ ---------------- http://www.eskimo.com/~adahl ------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 06:21:44 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Eric Moon" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:27:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Miata Top...SECURE??? >I drove my '92 Miata in an event today where I was given grief for having >my top down, but not secure. Secure? You mean putting a vinyl boot cover >over a convertible top makes it secure? Since I didn't have my boot cover, >I was instructed to run with my top up. >Have you ever heard of this? As far as I can remember, guys run without >their boot cover all the time. People running rollbars almost can't use the >boot. >Was this guy just giving me a hard time over nothing? Yes, in my opinion. There are only two reasons to enforce such a thing: Safety and legality. Safety: For the top to have any part in safety at all, I would expect that the car would have to roll over. First, this seems unlikely in a Miata. Second, if you rolled over a barless Miata, you would have bigger problems than where your top was getting to. Legality: We are straying into wienieism here. Check your owners manual. Does it say you MUST install the boot cover? Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 06:43:00 1999 From: John Steczkowski To: "'Phil Ethier'" , Eric Moon , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:39:11 -0500 Subject: RE: Miata Top...SECURE??? ---- John Steczkowski Director of Software Engineering Crossroads Systems, Inc. 512-794-2742 > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Ethier [mailto:pethier@isd.net] > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 7:27 AM > To: Eric Moon; autox@autox.team.net > Cc: GRMhq@aol.com; SOLOMIATA@aol.com; miq@teleport.com > Subject: Re: Miata Top...SECURE??? > > Safety: For the top to have any part in safety at all, I > would expect that > the car would have to roll over. First, this seems unlikely > in a Miata. > Second, if you rolled over a barless Miata, you would have > bigger problems > than where your top was getting to. I once saw a Miata that had rolled on the highway (somebody must have been working really hard to do that). It was resting upside down with the top supporting the weight of the car. It wasn't even smooshed in that much... John S. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 07:11:31 1999 From: CLAY MCLENDON To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:11:10 -0400 Subject: Pro rally videos Hey guys, about 2 years ago I ordered a video of the Word Rally Competition season in review. I recently tried to order some more videos and found that the company was out of business. Anyone know of a source for Rally season videos. For those of you that haven't checked it out, this is some of the best in-car camera footage I've ever seen. Nothing like a 4 hour long "hillclimb". Thanks guys... clay mclendon From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 07:43:31 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" , "Phil Ethier" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:46:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality >If you think understeer is a given in a Neon, you have not driven Washburn's >ACR. You're right, I haven't, and I'm willing to bet that the ability to overcome the inherent understeer qualities of FWD is a big reason for the Neon's popularity in our group. >Kicking out the tail of a RWD car with power IS fun. I just don't think it >is particularly fast in most autocross circumstances. Also true on both counts. Power slides can be fun and fast in the snow and ice, but it's not the way to go in an autox. :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 08:19:11 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:17:27 -0700 Subject: San Diego autox prax Thanks to the San Diego region for organizing a practice this past Saturday that included a novice instruction section! This is a marvelous way to encourage new participation (which, though I've been autocrossing for a year or so, includes me). I personally spoke with several enthusiastic new players. Special thanks to Judy Becker, who made me and my ideas for a true Street Legal class feel welcome. And special thanks, also, to Ron Chapman, who not only organized the event, but drawing the short straw to be my novice instructor, showed me how to do a 53-second run on *street tires*! I'm looking forward to returning, and learning more about driving technique (I am *very* happy with how my SVO performed after countless hours of restoration including SP mods, so I get to focus on "seat time"). Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII-1C/ESP 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0-3J From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 08:55:20 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Neon List" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:56:31 -0500 Subject: factory parts prices This goes without saying, but............. Always call around and shop for the best prices at various dealerships for factory car parts. I was calling around this morning for more "crash bolts" for my Neon and got prices that ranged from $17.25 for a pair all the way up to $84.00 (!!!) for the same part # from different dealerships. YIKES!!! Anyway I called my favorite dealership whom I had purchased these same parts from just a month earlier (damn crash bolts don't hold well after being torqued down too many times, bolt stretch dontcha know) and they quoted me a price of $24.60. I asked if the price had gone up in the past month and he said "no, why?" I told him that I'd purchased these same bolts from them just a month earlier for $17.25 and he said, "oh, I can sell them to you for that price." Goody for me. So..........It obviously pays to do a little phone shopping before driving around town. Duh. ;^) BTW, anybody got any good ideas how to help keep the steering knuckle from slipping around with the crash bolts? Even when they're torqued to 150 ft/lbs. Loc-Tite of some sort? See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 08:58:58 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: AutoX Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:58:27 -0500 Subject: Questions/Observations following my first National Tour event.... Well, I just completed my first National Tour event (actually my first official Solo2 competition). What a blast! The course was awesome -- really made you think. I have a few questions for you more experienced out there: For NT and Nationals regulars: 1) I noticed numerous top drivers were driving illegal cars. Weenie illegalities -- but illegal. Things in Street Prepared like holes cut in the interior panels to give access to the rear shocks, interior carpet missing or relocated to the center floorboard of the car, tiny little front passenger seats, intake ducting run to holes in the brake duct, etc. I expect that at regional events, or even from the locals attending the NTs; but I was kind of expecting the top NT regulars would be more "proper". My question: Is that typical? Are these things typically ignored even at Nationals? at ProSolos? (If so, why not just declare them legal?) Such blatant illegalities certainly make you wonder if there's lots more stuff illegal that is not so easy to see. 2) I noticed some people spraying liquid on their tires between runs. What is that? What rules are there regarding that? For example, can I spray my tires with sticky stuff? How about with 180'F water? How about with 180'F sticky stuff? Is that kind of thing in the rulebook? 3) The Sunday course was a lot faster than it looked (to me) while driving it. I'd drive it a little faster each time, but each time realize I could've gone even more. With just 3 run on each course, and each event having different courses and different surfaces, how do you learn how fast you can take different course elements? If I had five runs, I'd burn the first two going too fast in each section to figure it out -- and then perfect the run with the remaining three. But with just three runs, its hard to waste one. But if at every event you never find the edge and do some serious sliding, it seems that it would be a really slow process to learn how fast you can take a large variety of curves on a large variety of surfaces. Suggestions for a newbie? (I know I need seat time; and I have taken McKamey schools and plan to take others; but besides that, are there ways to get the most learning out of 3- and 4-run events??) For those that attended the Texas event: 4) How about that optional slalom on Saturday? Which way was better? Most people started on the left, only a few on the right -- but several of those few won their classes. Starting on the right made the slalom one cone longer and made the left after the slalom much tighter. However, it was the shorter path and one less braking zone. Starting on the left allowed you to carry your speed longer before braking to start the slalom, and allowed you a better line for the following left -- but you still had to brake to set up for the left. Anyone care to analyze their choice now with hindsight? 5) How about that optional slalom on Sunday? (The same optional slalom, but now in reverse.) In this case, most people switched the side of the slalom they attacked. Is that because they changed their mind based on Saturday? Or because the differences of the right entry before the slalom or the short straight into the finish at the end of the slalom?? Anyone care to analyze their choice now with hindsight? 6) I forgot to hit my tripometer before a run -- did anyone measure how long (distance) the course was? 7) Is there always a practice course on Friday? Is it always so puny and slow? And lop-sided (worked right tires much harder than left). (My M3 definitely did not like the practice course -- had me worried going into Saturday. ;^) 8) What things were different about the Texas NT vs. most others? Any peculiarities? Thanks, Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 09:03:42 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'Eric Linnhoff'" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:02:41 -0600 Subject: RE: factory parts prices Had that problem. Now I torque to 175+ ftlbs regular driving, race is 200 lbs. >BTW, anybody got any good ideas how to help keep the steering knuckle >from slipping around with the crash bolts? Even when they're torqued to >150 ft/lbs. Loc-Tite of some sort? Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 09:42:19 1999 From: Ed Sawyer To: autox@autox.team.net, wheeltowheel@wheeltowheel.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 245/45/15 Hoosiers on a 92-96 Prelude? will it fit? Hi folks, I am soon to be getting some 15 x 7.5" wheels for my 93 Prelude Si, and noticed that Hoosier makes a 245/45/15 size tire... Currently I have been using 225/50/15s R1s and Kumhos with good success on the stock wheels (15x6.5"). My question: will the Hoosiers fit the wider wheels, and will it all fit under the wheel wells without rubbing? The extra tire width would come in handy - I can never seem to have enough grip. The car is lowered about an inch and a half from stock. Has anyone run this combo for either track or autox? (My primary use would be track events). thanks in advance! -Ed Sawyer Waterville Valley, NH From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 09:52:01 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 11:50:00 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Rant (Was: Re: Protest Oil Companies) Author: Dale Botkin wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, Charles R. Schultz wrote: >> I suppose you'll really rant when you hear NATO blew up the Yugo >plant. > . . >Mercy killing then, was it? Nope, I saw that coming a long time ago. ('bout 3 weeks) Unfortunately, the plant also made tanks and guns. I thought diversity was supposed to be good for business? ;) Sure does make OEM parts a bit unlikely in the future though.......... Scott "saw too many SUV's with one occupant on the way to work today" Phelps From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 09:52:13 1999 From: "Moore, John" To: AutoX Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:55:26 -0500 Subject: Kumhos developed an extra groove? After the McKamey school on Saturday, I was looking at my front tires (Kumho's) on my MR2 and noticed that there was a very fine extra groove running the full cirumference of the tire, right down the middle. It looked almost as if someone would have taken a razor blade and carefully cut a groove around the tire. The groove is no wider than a razor blades width and both front tires have it. In some spots, just rubbing the tire with my finger causes the groove to disappear. In some spots it seems deeper. I was running 30 PSI in them. The car runs with about -3 degrees camber and 1/8" toe-out front, -2 degrees camber and 1/16" toe-in rear. The tires had about 20 runs on them before this weekend and had looked just fine when I put them on. Anyone seen this before or have any ideas? Are the tires trashed? John Moore 1993 MR2 NA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 10:17:36 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:18:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rant (Was: Re: Protest Oil Companies) >>> I suppose you'll really rant when you hear NATO blew up the Yugo >>plant. > . . > >>Mercy killing then, was it? > > > Nope, I saw that coming a long time ago. ('bout 3 weeks) > Unfortunately, the plant also made tanks and guns. I thought > diversity was supposed to be good for business? ;) Sure does make > OEM parts a bit unlikely in the future though.......... > > > Scott "saw too many SUV's with one occupant on the way to work today" > Phelps ============================ Wait, a Yugo tank with Yugo guns. Now THAT'S funny!!!! Somehow I just can't envision a Yugo tank being too much threat to allied forces. And I'd be willing to bet that the allied (really just Americans) forces would be laughing so hard that thay'd have trouble actually shooting back. And Scott, if you hate to see one occupant SUVs then you'd probably hate hearing that I was cruising at about 110-115 on the freeway coming back home from a Solo event Sunday. Why those speeds? Because traffic prevented me from going any faster. ;^) Of course I still managed to average 28 MPG on the trip so it wasn't too much of an impact on the environment. Damn tree huggers always manage to spoil my fun. Why just last fall I had to shoot two Green Peace volunteers who were blocking my attempt to club baby seals for their fur pelts. And I drove the pelts back home in a Humvee getting about 8 MPG on diesel fuel. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope I've got a desperate plan. ======================= "Red Barchetta" by Rush From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 11:33:12 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:28:18 -0500 Subject: Onboard video from Texas, WOW What a deal!!!!!!! Got on the Speedway after dark Saturday night. Awesome! Under the lights. The video from the March S2 is to cool. That place is really intimidating. When I drove it and saw the skid marks going up the track and into the wall and it gave me a real funny feeling. We had put in a 100++++ mph forth gear in my gearbox earlier. It wasn't tall enough!! I did hit 6500 rpm's down the back straight Thats right at 100mph! What a ride. Its really weird when you watch the video it doesn't look like your going fast at all. Anybody who missed this one really missed something. Mike B. TLS#1 March Apache Sports 2000 P.S. I didn't see ZZ Top while I was in Texas. Major league BUMMER. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 12:32:32 1999 From: "Mari L. Clements" To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:35:26 -0400 Subject: Onboard video from Texas, WOW I heard that an MR2 out west corded all four g-forces on one spin. Anybody know the details? (How many runs before the spin? How bad a spin?) And no flames, please. I'm running BFG's, I didn't say it was a fact that it happened, and I'm asking for more information than I currently have so I can make a good decision about the next set of tires I order. mlc P.S. I took the Ford F250 to the mall (Clinique's newest product antiwrinkle product is "stop signs"--really), and I think I finally know how CP drivers feel on *very* tight autocross courses--*way* more power than you can get to the ground and not near wide enough turns... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 13:05:38 1999 From: Mike McClure To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:05:52 -0500 Subject: Texas National Tour and a big THANK YOU! First I just have to say, WOW, what a great event! If you didn't make it to this event you will definately want to put it on your calenders for next year (if that works out). Things seemed to go very smoothly considering there were around 270 competitors. The courses were some of the best I have ever seen and the competition was fierce. The party in the garage area of the Speedway was great, especially since we could see and hear the stock cars most of the night! But, the thing that really made the event for me was the hospitality of a few competitors in my class (super stock). Let me explain: As I was leaving impound after the first days runs I noticed a new noise coming from my '86 Vette. I drove to my spot in the paddock, popped the hood, revved the motor and came to the realization that what I was hearing was undoubtedly a rod knocking. I couldn't believe it! It looked like my weekend was over. I was pretty upset seeing as how I had managed to be in 2nd place for the first day. The good news is that my fellow competitiors were very sympathetic with my situation and I was offered a ride by a gracious competitor that I had just briefly met the day before. Bob and Bev Landdeck wholehearedly offered to let me use their RX-7 to complete the event. I was extremely grateful, especially since Bob was just over a tenth of a second behind me after the first day. This kind of gesture is exactly what makes Solo 2 so much fun. The Landdeck's hospitality allowed me to not only complete the event, but to hold on to my 2nd place spot which netted me my first trophy at a National event! Bob and Bev, if I can ever help you in any way, please let me know. I look forward to competing with you and all of the others that ran SS this past weekend in the future. I had a truely great time, despite my misfortune. Mike McClure '86 Vette SS 71 Houston, TX P.S. Congratulations to Erik on his HUGE win in SS! If he continues to perform at this level, he will be absolutely untouchable!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 13:20:14 1999 From: Cliff Loh To: Autox List Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:15:37 -0700 Subject: Impreza 2.5RS Anyone know if this car has been classed in Street Prepared category? Does the listing Impreza 2.5L in G-Stock include the 2.5 RS? Are they the same car? lemmy no -c. --------------------------------------------------- Cliff Loh, Vancouver, B.C. CANADA "I started out with nothing & still have most of it left." vcmc001@ibm.net, h:604.597.6784 c:604.202.8724 --------------------------------------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 13:44:22 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Mike McClure Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:39:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Texas National Tour and a big THANK YOU! At least my problems were not as bad as yours. I also was a DNS Sunday from electrical problems. But I didn't get a ride in anyone elses car(Oh well, Got home early). But my ? is how did you get the car home? Did you have a trailer? Mike B. TLS#1 Mike McClure wrote: > First I just have to say, WOW, what a great event! If you didn't make > it to this event you will definately want to put it on your calenders > for next year (if that works out). Things seemed to go very smoothly > considering there were around 270 competitors. The courses were some of > the best I have ever seen and the competition was fierce. The party in > the garage area of the Speedway was great, especially since we could see > and hear the stock cars most of the night! > > But, the thing that really made the event for me was the hospitality of > a few competitors in my class (super stock). Let me explain: > > As I was leaving impound after the first days runs I noticed a new noise > coming from my '86 Vette. I drove to my spot in the paddock, popped the > hood, revved the motor and came to the realization that what I was > hearing was undoubtedly a rod knocking. I couldn't believe it! It > looked like my weekend was over. I was pretty upset seeing as how I had > managed to be in 2nd place for the first day. > > The good news is that my fellow competitiors were very sympathetic with > my situation and I was offered a ride by a gracious competitor that I > had just briefly met the day before. Bob and Bev Landdeck wholehearedly > offered to let me use their RX-7 to complete the event. I was extremely > grateful, especially since Bob was just over a tenth of a second behind > me after the first day. > > This kind of gesture is exactly what makes Solo 2 so much fun. The > Landdeck's hospitality allowed me to not only complete the event, but to > hold on to my 2nd place spot which netted me my first trophy at a > National event! > > Bob and Bev, if I can ever help you in any way, please let me know. I > look forward to competing with you and all of the others that ran SS > this past weekend in the future. I had a truely great time, despite my > misfortune. > > Mike McClure > '86 Vette SS 71 > Houston, TX > > P.S. Congratulations to Erik on his HUGE win in SS! If he continues to > perform at this level, he will be absolutely untouchable!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:00:22 1999 From: Mike McClure To: Mike Bultemeier Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:00:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Texas National Tour and a big THANK YOU! You are not gonna believe this. My Vette has not had a stellar reliability record with 99k miles on the clock, and I desire to compete at some of the bigger events, so I decided a few months ago that I wanted to trailer the car to and from out of town events. So, I ordered a truck on Feb. 1st and then ordered a trailer a few weeks later. Fortunately, the truck came in just last Wednesday. I drove the truck to Dallas on Friday morning to take delivery of my new trailer since that is where it was manufactured and had a friend drive my vette up from Houston. So, I lucked out and had a truck and trailer just in time!! Mike McClure '86 Vette SS 71 (about to undergo major surgery) Houston, TX Mike Bultemeier wrote: > > At least my problems were not as bad as yours. I also was a DNS Sunday from > electrical problems. But I didn't get a ride in anyone elses car(Oh well, > Got home > early). But my ? is how did you get the car home? Did you have a trailer? > > Mike B. TLS#1 > > Mike McClure wrote: > > > First I just have to say, WOW, what a great event! If you didn't make > > it to this event you will definately want to put it on your calenders > > for next year (if that works out). Things seemed to go very smoothly > > considering there were around 270 competitors. The courses were some of > > the best I have ever seen and the competition was fierce. The party in > > the garage area of the Speedway was great, especially since we could see > > and hear the stock cars most of the night! > > > > But, the thing that really made the event for me was the hospitality of > > a few competitors in my class (super stock). Let me explain: > > > > As I was leaving impound after the first days runs I noticed a new noise > > coming from my '86 Vette. I drove to my spot in the paddock, popped the > > hood, revved the motor and came to the realization that what I was > > hearing was undoubtedly a rod knocking. I couldn't believe it! It > > looked like my weekend was over. I was pretty upset seeing as how I had > > managed to be in 2nd place for the first day. > > > > The good news is that my fellow competitiors were very sympathetic with > > my situation and I was offered a ride by a gracious competitor that I > > had just briefly met the day before. Bob and Bev Landdeck wholehearedly > > offered to let me use their RX-7 to complete the event. I was extremely > > grateful, especially since Bob was just over a tenth of a second behind > > me after the first day. > > > > This kind of gesture is exactly what makes Solo 2 so much fun. The > > Landdeck's hospitality allowed me to not only complete the event, but to > > hold on to my 2nd place spot which netted me my first trophy at a > > National event! > > > > Bob and Bev, if I can ever help you in any way, please let me know. I > > look forward to competing with you and all of the others that ran SS > > this past weekend in the future. I had a truely great time, despite my > > misfortune. > > > > Mike McClure > > '86 Vette SS 71 > > Houston, TX > > > > P.S. Congratulations to Erik on his HUGE win in SS! If he continues to > > perform at this level, he will be absolutely untouchable!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:01:16 1999 From: joshlocklear@juno.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:50:56 -0400 Subject: 99 cougar classification Has anyone heard the classification for the new '99 Mercury Cougar? I have a copy of the '99 rule book, but it doesn't seem to be included. I know there are both 4 and 6 cylinder versions. I was really wondering about the 4 cylinder specifically, because I competed against one in HS yesterday, and it's times seemed to "break out" from the other cars in the class. It would seem to me that this car might be classed in DS or ES with other similar 4-cylinder "sporty" cars. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Josh Locklear Toyota Camry Ohio Valley Region HS #24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:03:58 1999 From: "Bradley H. Lamont" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:03:37 -0500 Subject: RE: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies At 02:41 PM 4/9/99 , John Steczkowski said: > >I've got news for you. I moved from Austin, TX when regular unleaded was >$1.10/gallon to Portland Oregon where gas was $1.50 or more a gallon. This is an interesting point. What price would gas have to rise to before fuel economy became an issue for most drivers? My car usually takes about 12 gallons. So going from $1.10 to $1.50 (which is about what its done here in Chicago), raises the fill up cost from $13.20 to $18. Not a big deal. But what if gas went up to $4.00/gallon like in most other industrial nations? Then it would be $48 per fill up. That would probably be enough to get me to consider gas mileage on my next car. What about the general population? At what price do SUVs become less attractive - at $4/gallon an SUV costs over $100 to fill up. Brad ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bradley Lamont email: lamont@xnet.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:06:05 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:11:17 -0400 Subject: Fw: Atlanta gears up for SEDIV --------- Forwarded message ---------- Atlanta Region SCCA will be having two consecutive events (April 18 & April 25) gearing up for the SEDIV Divisional event on May 1-2. All events will be held in the parking lot at Atlanta Motor Speedway. Our out-of-town guests and Novices are allowed to run either morning or afternoon sessions. You may even register twice and get twice as many runs and run both sessions! (Of course you will have to work twice, also). Atlanta Region members in the points race for their classes may only enter twice IF their class runs in the morning session. PRE-REGISTER at the Atlanta Region SCCA Website at: and jump to the registration page PRE-REGISTER for the Divisional at: 1999 NOPI Solo II Series Schedule Run/work heats (includes corresponding ladies' classes). Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, BP, CP, EP, DP, KMJr., KM Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, The following run/work schedule will be followed throughout the season: April 18 Points #2: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:06:20 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:09:57 -0400 Subject: NOPI Solo II Atlanta Region will be hosting a NOPI Solo II event at Atlanta Motor Speedway, Sunday April 18th. Entry fees are $20 for SCCA members and $25 for non-members. Come out and practice for the first SEDIV coming up on May 1-2 at this same site. Atlanta Region will be holding events both weekends before the SEDIV's first event of the season. Out of town guests and Novices can enter either the morning session (beginning at 8 a.m.) or the afternoon session (beginning at 11:00 a.m.). Pre-registration for the event on April 18th or 25th can be done on the Atlanta Region Website at: and jump to the Solo II registration page. You may also pre-register for the SEDIV Series of events at: Please pre-register because this will speed up our events. If you are an Atlanta Region member running for points the following Run/Work order must be followed: Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, BP, CP, EP, DP, KMJr., KM Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, The following run/work schedule will be followed throughout the season: April 18 Points #2: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:18:22 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:21:32 -0400 Subject: Re: 99 cougar classification >Has anyone heard the classification for the new '99 Mercury Cougar? I >have a copy of the '99 rule book, but it doesn't seem to be included. I >know there are both 4 and 6 cylinder versions. I was really wondering >about the 4 cylinder specifically, because I competed against one in HS >yesterday, and it's times seemed to "break out" from the other cars in >the class. It would seem to me that this car might be classed in DS or >ES with other similar 4-cylinder "sporty" cars. Any help would be >appreciated. I also don't see the 4-cyl listed, but the 6 is included in HS. If the 4 was above and beyond the other HS entries, I can only imagine how much of a disadvantage we in HS would have against a new V6 Cougar! One thing to keep in mind is the Cougar classifications are probably for the older style Cougar, the one based on the T-bird. The 4-cyl Contour is also classed in HS, though the Cougar is more sporty as you observed. V6 Contours are in GS, as are SVT versions. It seems that some further clarification and classification may be needed for the new Cougars. So it performed well? Interesting... A new Cougar is on my list of potential replacements for my Tracer... - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:23:17 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: bspvette@mailinglist.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:30:14 -0400 Subject: BSP at SEDIV - Atlanta Come run against one of the best at the SEDivisional in Atlanta on May 1-2. Phil Currin will be making another run on the Southeast Divisional series beginning at Atlanta. Currin has won BSP in his early 70s Corvette at SCCA Nationals and has extensive experience in road racing Corvettes. Now would be the time to test your machine and driving skills against one of the best. (Come on Adam Popp, now is the time to drag your 86 Coupe and your brother to Atlanta to find out who is the best!) You can register on-line at . Register on line and pay when you get here. Ben Thatcher Atlanta SCCA S2-co-chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:57:05 1999 From: Tesec@compuserve.com To: "Bruce Wentzel" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:56:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoosier 225/45/15 tires on a 7" rim??? Message text written by "Bruce Wentzel" >That's a common setup on ITS RX7's< I tried them at Lime Rock last week, 225/45/15 on 7" rims on the front. Seemed to work pretty well, front end stuck well in Big Bend. I compared them to 225/50/16 tires on 8" rims but the 16s were a year old and pretty hard, they did not stick as well as the 15s. The 225/45/15s on 7" rim wore fine but the outer edges of the tire do not have much contact area due to being squeezed on the rim. They would work much better on 8" rims, I will try some for autocross. I locked up the new 15s once pretty badly late braking to keep ahead of a 996 (nice ABS!) but they did not show any flat spots. The new Hoosier 03s have been great in that respect, flat spotting is no real worry. Some people are thinking of trying the 225/45/15 on a 6" rim (miatas, etc). That will be quite a job for the tire mounters. Should take 3 strong people. The tire would probably have less contact patch than 205s on the same rim, and you need serious camber to run these. However it just might work as I have seen weirder setups. Regards, mike piera AnalogMike@aol.com '72 911S Targa, '73 911RS Replica ~^v^~ aNaLoG.MaN ~^v^~ vintage guitars www.analogman.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:04:25 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:03:28 -0700 Subject: Texas Tour: the Ace Report I would also like to say THANKS to just about everyone there at the Dallas Tour, which was a huge adventure for me before I even got there. Only, the parts which were an adventure for me only bored everyone I told at the event, so I'll just condense and say my flight to Dallas was the absolute WORST. I left at 9:30 Thurs. night, and got to TMS at 9:00 the next morning. (And let me just say, the Houston airport, which was not on my original itinerary, is a very nice aiport. I hope all get a chance to some how end up there, even if it is an accident.) And when I finally arrived in Dallas, only four hours late, and one extra city later, the cab driver, who ended up taking me to TMS, just thought I was NUTS when I said, "Look, I need to go to the Texas Motor Speedway parking lot. No, I don't know whom I'm meeting there. I just need to go there. It's a race. In the parking lot. JUST TAKE ME THERE!" Besides the fact that driving wise, this event was thoroughly disappointing for me, it's just a little speck compared to how awesome some of my friends drove, AND it's NOTHING compared to how wonderful and kind everyone there was. So, here are my friendly Ace Reporter awards for those who just made this weekend so worthwile. Thanks to Dan Pedroza for his special mroadster.com sponsorship. I wouldn't have even GONE to Dallas if it weren't for this deal. For those of you who don't know, http://www.mroadster.com/ is a most bitchin' website for not just Miata accessories, but mental well-being. You can order car parts, interior doo dads, or just read some of Dan's latest stream-of-consciousness writings, all of which are entertaining, and yes, even inspiring. Dan also, with only 1 year of autox experience, at his very FIRST National Tour, finished 7th out of 24 in a very competitive B Stock. He kicked my li'l BUTT! He also let me take some fun runs in Sim, his most beautiful '99 TOURING Miata. Thanks to Sandy Pessoney, my Cozmic Twin, for letting me drive "the Champ" one more time. Sandy is another person who totally kicked my butt. Shees. But anyway, the story is, Sandy and I discovered we were cozmic twins before the '97 nationals. It's a long story, but we have lived near mirror lives, from our childhoods in parking lots, to our spinning habits, to our strange, warped attitudes, down to the month and year we were born. And Sandy, if you're reading this, Yes, you can drive Lucy, but she has requested that YOU go first. Thanks to all the guys in B Stock for all your words of encouragement, and congrats to Darren DiSimo and Byron Short for such a great race for first in B Stock! And congrats to Yvonne Short for some incredible times in BSL! And let us not forget Bret Norgaard, our SFR entrant who not only trophied, but WON CSP! He is our CHAMPION! Thanks to Susan Hensley for letting me crash in her trailer when I arrived Friday morning, and thanks to Dan, Tim Pryor, and Jim Hedderick for the fun runs in their Miatas at the practice event. Thanks to Howard Duncan for playing something BESIDES Kenny G. for background music. You're on the right track, now. We're race car drivers, not wine tasters. This was your friendly Ace Reporter's last long distance event for awhile. It's time to see what my local autocross scene is like. Y'all need to come out to Cali now. Oh yeah, thanks to Craig Blome for the pint of Guiness. And thank you, to whomever it was who said, "Oh, YOU'RE Katie Kelly? Somehow, I thought you'd be a lot older." It's because I'm so grown up and mature on the internet, I know. Coming soon... The Ace Clinique Report (or... the Lengths Katie Kelly Will Go to Kiss Some Big Corporation's Butt for Money). Photos included! Stay tuned... Sleep? Who needs that? Katie Kelly, Ace Reporter for North American Pylon. Call 1-800-KT-KELLY for details. Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:21:46 1999 From: John Steczkowski To: "'Bradley H. Lamont'" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:18:03 -0500 Subject: RE: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies > -----Original Message----- > From: Bradley H. Lamont [mailto:lamont@xnet.com] > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 3:04 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: Fwd: Protest Oil Companies > > > At 02:41 PM 4/9/99 , John Steczkowski said: > > > >I've got news for you. I moved from Austin, TX when regular > unleaded was > >$1.10/gallon to Portland Oregon where gas was $1.50 or more a gallon. > > This is an interesting point. What price would gas have to > rise to before > fuel economy became an issue for most drivers? > > My car usually takes about 12 gallons. So going from $1.10 > to $1.50 (which > is about what its done here in Chicago), raises the fill up cost from > $13.20 to $18. Not a big deal. > > But what if gas went up to $4.00/gallon like in most other industrial > nations? Then it would be $48 per fill up. That would > probably be enough > to get me to consider gas mileage on my next car. > > What about the general population? At what price do SUVs become less > attractive - at $4/gallon an SUV costs over $100 to fill up. In my case, going from 1.10 to 4.00/gallon bumps my fillup cost from $44 to $160. (OUCH!!!) But, what are my alternative? My Suburban typically has a minimum of 4 people in it, at the end of the summer, it will be a minimum of 5 (I don't drive it to work). In the mornings, when my wife car pools to school, it has at least 6 and occasionally 8. So, what are my options on transportation? A minivan would save me maybe 10 or 15% in gas mileage, so I'd guess I'd just keep the Suburban. ---- John Steczkowski Director of Software Engineering Crossroads Systems, Inc. 512-794-2742 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:24:57 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: ka1ult@channel1.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:22:26 EDT Subject: Re: 99 cougar classification In a message dated 4/12/99 4:20:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ka1ult@channel1.com writes: << I also don't see the 4-cyl listed, but the 6 is included in HS. >> Isn't the V6 in GS?? At least it WAS at Meridian... =^) Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:40:10 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:41:53 -0500 Subject: Re: 99 cougar classification I thought I remembered seeing an update in Fastrack putting the V6 in GS and the I4 in HS. the update could have been a while ago since the "99" model was released sometime mid98. I wouldn't imagine it an "overdog" with the 4cyl MX6 in HS too. methinks the Cougar is larger and heavier than the MX6. Dave Yeung Houston Region On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:50:56 -0400 joshlocklear@juno.com writes: >Has anyone heard the classification for the new '99 Mercury Cougar? I >have a copy of the '99 rule book, but it doesn't seem to be included. >I know there are both 4 and 6 cylinder versions. I was really >wondering about the 4 cylinder specifically, because I competed >against one in HS yesterday, and it's times seemed to "break out" from >the other cars in the class. It would seem to me that this car might >be classed in DS or ES with other similar 4-cylinder "sporty" cars. >Any help would be appreciated. > >Thanks, >Josh Locklear >Toyota Camry >Ohio Valley Region HS #24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:42:43 1999 From: Paula Whitney To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:38:37 -0500 Subject: Texas Tour We had a total of 266 entries, the second largest tour ever! (San Diego had the largest by TWO). The courses were very long and some of the best Roger the Real has ever done. Howard felt the need to test drive the course over and over and over and over until Roger's Miata was panting. Because of the long courses the 20 minute break was just barely long enough to walk the course and get to your work assignment without any time for anything else, like bathroom stops so we had a little problem getting everyone to their cars and work assignments but on a whole the event went without a hitch. Tommy Saunders lost a wheel on one of his runs and put it back on the car on course and finished his run, the longest run of the weekend, about 10 minutes. We finished on Saturday about 7:45 and got to make hot laps on the track under the lights, WOW. Sunday we finished with trophies about 7pm. Thanks goodness for daylight savings time! The Texas Region did an outstanding job. (and special thanks for staying around and helping load up all the SCCA stuff in the truck and trailer, the weak backs of the field staff appreciate all the help!!) Great event, Lew Anne Ps, special thanks to Stan Whitney for the use of the beautiful little yellow and purple CRX, when the Wild Orkid Beast decided to quit and Grady and I needed a ride. Poor thing had four drivers on Sunday in two different classes and finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. (Stan's great little car is for sale you know) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:57:15 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: Tesec@compuserve.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:41:19 EDT Subject: Re: Hoosier 225/45/15 tires on a 7" rim??? In a message dated 4/12/99 3:51:06 PM Central Daylight Time, Tesec@compuserve.com writes: > > Some people are thinking of trying the 225/45/15 on a 6" rim (miatas, etc). > That will be quite a job for the tire mounters. Should take 3 strong > people. > The tire would probably have less contact patch than 205s on the same rim, > and > you need serious camber to run these. However it just might work as I > have seen weirder setups. FYI, the winning 99 Miata (D. Disimo) at Texas changed from Saturday's Kumhos to the 225/45-15 Hoosier A3S03 for Sunday. The results say the rest. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 16:23:46 1999 From: "Darren P. Madams" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:20:56 -0700 Subject: Looking for a rim/tire setup for a neon Hi all, my brother is looking for some race tires for his '95 DS Neon (non-acr). Anyone have anything for sale? I assume the hot setup this year is still the old AR-24s with a 225 Kumho or GForce in the front and 205s in the rear? Anyone got rims or rims&tires for sale? Please email him at mylo@madams.com And does anyone think the new Neon will be as fast as the current ones? Thanx, --Darren From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 16:28:21 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: CLAY MCLENDON Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:25:38 -0700 Subject: Re: Pro rally videos Duke Video sells all those tapes. CLAY MCLENDON wrote: > > Hey guys, about 2 years ago I ordered a video of the Word Rally Competition > season in review. I recently tried to order some more videos and > found that the company was out of business. Anyone know of a source for Rally > season videos. For those of you that haven't checked it out, this > is some of the best in-car camera footage I've ever seen. Nothing like a 4 > hour long "hillclimb". Thanks guys... > clay mclendon From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:10:04 1999 From: Craig Blome To: TeamZ3@aol.com, Tesec@compuserve.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Hoosier 225/45/15 tires on a 7" rim??? --- TeamZ3@aol.com wrote: > > FYI, the winning 99 Miata (D. Disimo) at Texas > changed from Saturday's Kumhos > to the 225/45-15 Hoosier A3S03 for Sunday. The > results say the rest. > I kibitzed while they were mounting up the first tire at Ron Ver Mulm's trailer Saturday afternoon. I was amazed first that Ron got the tire mounted singlehandedly and second that it fit on the front of Rafal Lemanczyk's '99 Sport without rubbing! Ron, you da' MAN! Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX TLS #91 Team Got-Whupped-By-My-Co-Driver From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:15:31 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Mike McClure , autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Texas National Tour and a big THANK YOU! --- Mike McClure wrote: > Bob and Bev > Landdeck wholehearedly > offered to let me use their RX-7 to complete the > event. I also got to meet Bob and Bev Landdeck. Y'all may remember I was asking about how to get permission to do autocrosses at either active or decommissioned airports. The Landdecks have some experience on this and gave me a TREMENDOUS amount of advice that will put us a lot closer to landing some new sites! Thanks, Bob and Bev! Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX BS #19 (and tire warmer for #119 who trophied...good job Ben!) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:31:36 1999 From: drpepper To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:31:09 -0400 Subject: PSI Questions I just ran in my first serious autox this past sunday (ran in 4 last year to see if I liked it, boy am I hooked) and am wondering about PSI. Not what to put in my tires (used the solo ii handbook from www.autocross.com and that seem to work ok) but how to put the PSI in the tires! I have a versapak inflator that is poor to say the least... Sears has a 9gal, 125psi portable air tank with gauge and hose for $40. So how much and how many times should I be able to put air in my tires? PSI Perplexed... Ed George drpepper@nacs.net NeOhio, Akron SCC 94 Duster #29 GS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:40:23 1999 From: "Stevens, Kevin" To: "'drpepper'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:41:11 -0700 Subject: RE: PSI Questions > -----Original Message----- > From: drpepper [SMTP:drpepper@nacs.net] > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 4:31 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: PSI Questions > >I just ran in my first serious autox this past sunday (ran in 4 last year >to see if I liked it, boy am I hooked) and am wondering about PSI. Not what >to put in my tires (used the solo ii handbook from www.autocross.com and >that seem to work ok) but how to put the PSI in the tires! Personally, I stop at a gas station near the event site, and air them up to above what I know I'll want to start first runs at once they cool down. Then I air them down to first run pressures on grid. Then if I do anything I bleed off the increase as they heat up between runs. >I have a versapak inflator that is poor to say the least... >Sears has a 9gal, 125psi portable air tank with gauge and hose for $40. So >how much and how many times should I be able to put air in my tires? Depends on their size. A 7 gallon tank will raise all four of my tires, 245/40/17f 275/35/18r from 40 to 46 psi at 55 degrees F. KeS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:43:40 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Craig Blome Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:39:34 -0700 Subject: Re: Texas National Tour and a big THANK YOU! Are you going to share the information? :-) --Pat Kelly Craig Blome wrote: > --- Mike McClure wrote: > > Bob and Bev > > Landdeck wholehearedly > > offered to let me use their RX-7 to complete the > > event. > > I also got to meet Bob and Bev Landdeck. Y'all may > remember I was asking about how to get permission to > do autocrosses at either active or decommissioned > airports. The Landdecks have some experience on this > and gave me a TREMENDOUS amount of advice that will > put us a lot closer to landing some new sites! > Thanks, Bob and Bev! > > Craig Blome > Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX > BS #19 (and tire warmer for #119 who trophied...good > job Ben!) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:45:15 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: drpepper Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:49:03 -0700 Subject: Re: PSI Questions drpepper wrote: > > I just ran in my first serious autox this past sunday (ran in 4 last year > to see if I liked it, boy am I hooked) and am wondering about PSI. Not what > to put in my tires (used the solo ii handbook from www.autocross.com and > that seem to work ok) but how to put the PSI in the tires! > > I have a versapak inflator that is poor to say the least... Yup. Pretty slow. > Sears has a 9gal, 125psi portable air tank with gauge and hose for $40. So > how much and how many times should I be able to put air in my tires? 9 gal is plenty big. I use a 5 gal, and while it can't inflate a fully flat tire more than once, it certainly can help in maintaining any desired pressures at an autox. The real trick is to find a compressor that can get you up to 100 psi. Most gas stations with the little "air stations" don't get much higher than 60 psi. Find a gas station that has a service bay or a truck stop. Tire shops are good too. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:58:01 1999 From: PZahornask@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:56:36 EDT Subject: Re: 99 cougar classification In a message dated 4/12/99 3:04:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time, joshlocklear@juno.com writes: > Has anyone heard the classification for the new '99 Mercury Cougar? I > have a copy of the '99 rule book, but it doesn't seem to be included. I > know there are both 4 and 6 cylinder versions. I was really wondering > about the 4 cylinder specifically, because I competed against one in HS > yesterday, and it's times seemed to "break out" from the other cars in > the class. It would seem to me that this car might be classed in DS or > ES with other similar 4-cylinder "sporty" cars. Any help would be > appreciated. Before you start a letter writing campaign, answer this: Who was driving the Cougar (i.e. did Rick McDaniels show up in a new car?) What kind of competition was there. Did the Cougar "walk away" from a collection of Yugo's and Hyundai's or were there some nationally competitive Celica ST's there? I think that the 4 Cyl Cougar belongs in HS. It is not that much different from the Contours. As far as ES having the "sporty" 4 cyl cars, you haven't been reading your Fastrack. A whole bunch of ES cars are headed for HS in Y2K. Paul Zahornasky 29 HS - 87 Integra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:13:04 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:12:42 CDT Subject: Do you Kumho? (with a neon?) I asked the neon list and still don't have satisfactory answers. So here goes, to the hard-core racers! I'm wondering if the 205/55 14 Kumho is truly competitive with the BFG G-Force on the neon. I've only used R1s, and I'm a little wary, because the 225 R1 is a real advantage, but Kumhos aren't offered in that size. The Kumho 205 gives up 0.9 inch tread width to the 225 G-Force. Sounds very significant to me. Also, the G-Force spec sheet shows the 225 needs a 6.5 inch wide minimum wheel. Are neons using 225 G-Forces on the front, just like with the previous R1? After seeing the Dallas NT results, with winning neons on G-Forces, and hearing how they resemble Hoosiers in durability, I'm apprehensive about my tire budget... I think I'm doomed to spending more, more often... Finally, if I have last season's R1s in decent shape, AND I want to have the maximum advantage, should I switch now or use the oldies first? Really, at this point, I need to do what it takes to make those precious seconds count. Also, time is of the essence - the first Regional event is this weekend! And if I don't win, then I want to (will!) make damned sure the winner has to work for it! <- this is the Team DFL pledge! Thanks, -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:18:49 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:18:08 -0700 Subject: Significant Other Class Okay, here's what we were talking about in the impound after B Stock ran. We were talking about how at the San Diego Tour a year ago, I, a competitor of 13 years, got to run Ladies, but my then boyfriend, Gumbo Lambrusco (not his real name), at his fifth autocross was pitted up against George Doganis, Kevin McCormick, and others. Gumbo thought this seemed backwards. If anyone had a chance against those fellows, it would be me (a scary thought). But I got to run Ladies, the so-called "easier" class. There were six of us. The Open class had 24. Scary! I'm sad to say, he didn't autox much longer. He only went to this National event to support me, not because he was curious to see how he'd do against B Stock, just like many (not all, but many) Ladies class competitors. It became a choice, Gumbo, or Lucy. I chose Lucy. Other women, if given the same choice, might choose their s.o., and we'd lose yet another competitor. I ask you, how many have we already lost? It's a frightening thought. We need a change. It's not always men bringing in their girlfiends and wives, you know. It's sometimes the other way. We've got to do something. So, that's why some of us think we need to have a Significant Others Class. This isn't just my idea. A whole bunch of us thought of it, and darn it, it's such a PC solution! It serves the same purpose of the Ladies class, but it's open to both genders. One's driving ability is NOT taken into account, just like the Ladies class. As you'll note, many, many women who run Ladies classes are fantastic drivers, period. No, this is about keeping the peace in marriages, by encouraging significant others to take part in a sport they might be intimidated by. It will reduce friction. It will also generate added income to Solo II. As my father, a long-time proponent of Ladies classes says, "A couple that plays together, stays together." But he said that a long time ago, when wives and girlfriends were valued as tire warmers, not as serious contenders. Times are a LOT different now. "A couple that plays together stays together." This is only so true. We need a Significant Others class, especially at a National level, to encourage s.o.s to come on out to national caliber events. Of course, as a driver moves up the s.o. ranks, we might encourage him or her to enter the Open class. Of course, this might lessen the value of the S.O. trophy. That very notion, in fact, is the current fear as more women move into the Open classes. What about those who stay in Ladies? Where will they get their competition? Clearly, a new name and new gender would only help the already slowly dwindling Ladies classes.Technically, if you're running Ladies, and you like running Ladies, you wouldn't have to change anything. In fact, you'll only get MORE competition. Of course, you'd need and S and O for your car, and you'd have to accept running against some, oh, men. Oh, let's not be sexist! If you're unhappy about that, you need to reevaluate your stereotypes. I think the S.O. class is long overdue, especially as we enter the new millenium. signed, Katie Kelly, spokesperson for the Committee for Screwing Up Everything, established April 11th, Dallas, TX, in the Dallas Tour Impound In other words, I'M just the voice, not the creator of this idea. Do NOT blow up my house. Thank you. You know, there's a good reason why I'm not on the SEB. Count your blessings. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:42:28 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "drpepper" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:33:43 -0700 Subject: Re: PSI Questions >I have a versapak inflator that is poor to say the least... > >Sears has a 9gal, 125psi portable air tank with gauge and hose for $40. So >how much and how many times should I be able to put air in my tires? > >PSI Perplexed... >Ed George ============================= Keep an eye out for sales (especially at Sears) and used equipment from fellow racers. I found an 11 gallon Campbell & Hausfeld(?) air tank on closeout at a local Montgomery Ward's auto center for $9.99. I didn't like the style of air hose that was attached (clamp style) so I bought a 6' hose with the normal "gas station" type of end for another $10 and I'm quite happy with it. Spend the extra left over money on a good tire guage. Hint: Not the type sold at most chain auto parts stores. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T You jump in front of my car When you know all the time That 90 miles an hour Girl Is the speed I drive You tell me it's all right You don't mind a little pain You say you just want me to take you for a drive -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crosstown Traffic" as recorded by Jimi Hendrix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:51:15 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:49:24 EDT Subject: TLS member in a Crisis! Hey all, I'm in pretty desperate shape. I really don't know what to do. It happened again this weekend. If you are confused by this time, welcome to the club. So am I. I took a pledge to not wash my car when I joined Team Laughing Stock. I thought it wouldn't be a big deal. Let everyone laugh at my soiled car. I could stand it for a while. I just can't help but wash it! I can just see her(Ms. Mitsubishi, my significant other at the moment) frowning and egging me on to just 'do it'. Well, it's happened twice now in the last three weeks! I need all the support I can get from my TLS members. I don't want to recind my membership but I feel I have no other choice...HELP!!! Daniel "did some off-road racing this weekend...accidentally" Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 19:01:41 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:00:15 EDT Subject: DSM abs problem? Hey all, I was noticing something this weekend at a local autox that really upset me and led to something that was rather unexpected--an off-road excursion. I had noticed when I ran in the rain in my car that the abs came on pretty suddenly. Nothing out of the ordinary there. I have noticed lately, though, that my abs comes on from almost the time you hit the brakes. Granted, I hit them hard but not hard enough to lock them up. Also, when I hit them even harder (stand on them), the frequency of the pulsation changes (no, this not a warped rotor). Any thoughts? Just for more info and something that could have a bearing on this--my speedometer is off by +5mph with stock rim diameter and stock tires. Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 19:39:39 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: Brian M Kennedy Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Questions/Observations following my first National Tour event.... Brian M Kennedy wrote: > 2) I noticed some people spraying liquid on their tires between runs. > What is that? What rules are there regarding that? > For example, can I spray my tires with sticky stuff? > How about with 180'F water? How about with 180'F sticky stuff? > Is that kind of thing in the rulebook? That's just water. Sometimes these tires can overheat on a hot day with multiple drivers, so a little water right after a run brings them down to a reasonable temperature for the next run. > 4) How about that optional slalom on Saturday? Which way was better? > Most people started on the left, only a few on the right -- but > several of those few won their classes. Starting on the right > made the slalom one cone longer and made the left after the > slalom much tighter. However, it was the shorter path and one > less braking zone. Starting on the left allowed you to carry > your speed longer before braking to start the slalom, and allowed > you a better line for the following left -- but you still had to > brake to set up for the left. Anyone care to analyze their choice > now with hindsight? In hindsight, I shoulda gone on the right on Saturday. After Friday night's walks, I was fully planning to go right. But then while I was trying to fall asleep and replaying the course in my mind, I couldn't make going right seem even remotely smooth, it just felt awful. So, come Saturday morning, left was the plan. But in retrospect, I think right would have been faster (that conclusion is drawn mostly from how fast those who went right managed to go). But it's rare to have a truly optional slalom like that. I'll bet it worked out to about 50% drivers went left, 50% went right ... > 5) How about that optional slalom on Sunday? (The same optional > slalom, but now in reverse.) In this case, most people switched > the side of the slalom they attacked. Is that because they > changed their mind based on Saturday? Or because the differences > of the right entry before the slalom or the short straight into > the finish at the end of the slalom?? Anyone care to analyze > their choice now with hindsight? It wasn't quite the same -- one cone was removed! If you went right, it was just a brake stab before the right hander, then flat out to the finish. Left was longer and would have required more finesse to maintain max speed. > 8) What things were different about the Texas NT vs. most others? > Any peculiarities? Except for not getting done Saturday until after 7pm (I suppose the problem was simply that there was too much time between cars), I thought it was a very typical National Tour. Great fun, great competitors, great party! I think I must may go back to Texas for another one :-) Even though I coned myself out of a trophy ... Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 20:46:22 1999 From: washburn To: "Kelly, Katie" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:42:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class Kelly, Katie wrote: > > I think the S.O. class is long overdue, especially as we enter the new > millenium. Might I suggest that bringing ANY 5 event old autocrosser to a National Tour will scare the bejeesus out of them? Set one up at your local level and see how it works out, could be fun. We have a "Special Interest" (read: Novice) class at home that pretty much does the same thing. (No published times, no real competition.) Bring em out to play! -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:00:49 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: , "TEAM.NET" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:54:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Hoosier 225/45/15 tires on a 7" rim??? I'd sure like them better on 8" rims too, but IT rules limit to 7". Of course if we could run 8", then I'd be trying 245 or 255 :) One guy at the ARRC did do that on the rear of his RX7 for the gearing. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Tesec@compuserve.com To: Bruce Wentzel ; TEAM.NET Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Hoosier 225/45/15 tires on a 7" rim??? Message text written by "Bruce Wentzel" >That's a common setup on ITS RX7's< I tried them at Lime Rock last week, 225/45/15 on 7" rims on the front. Seemed to work pretty well, front end stuck well in Big Bend. I compared them to 225/50/16 tires on 8" rims but the 16s were a year old and pretty hard, they did not stick as well as the 15s. The 225/45/15s on 7" rim wore fine but the outer edges of the tire do not have much contact area due to being squeezed on the rim. They would work much better on 8" rims, I will try some for autocross. I locked up the new 15s once pretty badly late braking to keep ahead of a 996 (nice ABS!) but they did not show any flat spots. The new Hoosier 03s have been great in that respect, flat spotting is no real worry. Some people are thinking of trying the 225/45/15 on a 6" rim (miatas, etc). That will be quite a job for the tire mounters. Should take 3 strong people. The tire would probably have less contact patch than 205s on the same rim, and you need serious camber to run these. However it just might work as I have seen weirder setups. Regards, mike piera AnalogMike@aol.com '72 911S Targa, '73 911RS Replica ~^v^~ aNaLoG.MaN ~^v^~ vintage guitars www.analogman.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:08:05 1999 From: "Brent DeWitt" To: "Kelly, Katie" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:06:12 -0600 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Well there, In Colorado we just call it the "Rookie Class". Don't matter squat about gender. Best regards, Brent From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:08:33 1999 From: "Brent DeWitt" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "drpepper" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:06:26 -0600 Subject: RE: PSI Questions Eric brings up and interesting "pet peeve" of mine (jump up here on my lap, Peeve): Does anyone know of decent calibration services for air gauges? > Spend the extra left over money on a good tire gauge. Hint: Not the type > sold at most chain auto parts stores. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:18:21 1999 From: Kevin Stevens To: Brent DeWitt , Eric Linnhoff , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:17:53 -0700 Subject: RE: PSI Questions Sure, there's a free one readily available at your next autocross. Get a group of people together and compare gauges. I suggest using the modal value. KeS > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Brent DeWitt > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 20:06 > To: Eric Linnhoff; drpepper; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: PSI Questions > > > Eric brings up and interesting "pet peeve" of mine (jump up here > on my lap, > Peeve): > > Does anyone know of decent calibration services for air gauges? > > > Spend the extra left over money on a good tire gauge. Hint: > Not the type > > sold at most chain auto parts stores. > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:26:59 1999 From: Craig Blome To: "Stevens, Kevin" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: PSI Questions --- "Stevens, Kevin" wrote: > > > Personally, I stop at a gas station near the event > site, and air them up to > above what I know I'll want to start first runs at > once they cool down. I'm not especially keen on gas station air compressors, since most of the ones around here either don't have dryers in the air lines or never bother emptying the water out of them (you do _not_ want any moisture of any kind in your tire air). I have a generic air bottle that I fill at my tire dealer or the event site, which is generally dry and yields consistent pressures. I only see about 2 psi increase at autocrosses. Craig Blome From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:37:53 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Significant Other Class --- "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > ...So, that's why some of us think we need to have a > Significant Others Class. Do those without SO's have to abstain from the vote on this? :-7 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:39:14 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: NASA-VA Jon Felton , autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:38:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Pylon sources? At 4:10 PM 4/11/99, NASA-VA Jon Felton wrote: >Any suggestions on an inexpensive source for pylons? Please reply >privately. > Sure, the "cone source", GMD Enterprises Glenn Duensing rebel128@earthlink.net 626-358-6240 Monrovia, CA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:59:05 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:03:21 -0700 Subject: Solo 2 Passengers??? I went looking and could not find a reference to this in the 99 rulebook. Are passengers in normal parking lot Solo 2's allowed? If so, what age must they be? Do they have to be licensed drivers? Or due to the Junior stuff evolving, can they be younger these days? Where is this spelled out? Thanks for the help. Scott Meyers Scoreboard - 2nd event on G-Forces; 240 SX 2, Local Neons 0 :-) Any Neons going to Lake Havasu next weekend? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 22:05:59 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:40:56 -0500 Subject: Re: DSM abs problem? Normal ABS behavior. If you're on the brakes almost hard enough for lockup, but just not quite, they'll pulse lightly, on impending lock. They don't actually wait for the wheel to stop, but for one wheel to have a significant difference in speed compared to the others. If you really stand on the pedal, this happens faster, and more often, and results in more brake pulsing. Depends on the surface, too. If you run up to an intersection pretty hard on a dirt road and stand on the brakes, you'll probably go right through the intersection as the brakes spend more time off than on. Um, don't ask me how I know. . . . Dirty asphalt will have your ABS pump whining overtime. Concrete, of course, rules. You can find yourself threshold braking into ABS just like you'd threshold brake into lockup. You here the front end jackhammering, you back off just a tad on the pedal, or give it a little pump. The safety nazis tell you to just stand on it, but you'll stop better if you can stay out of ABS, especially if there's any looseness to the surface.OTOH, be thankful that your tires don't have all those round cordy marks on them that other people get. ABS can throw the car around, too. Imagine trail braking very deep, probably too deep, and as the inside wheel gets light, the ABS backs off that brake. Suddenly, momentarily, the car is only braking on one side, and will turn into the side with brakes, i.e. away from the apex You'll miss the apex for sure, wider than if you'd slid past it dragging the inside front tire. Again, don't ask me how I know. Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > Hey all, > > I was noticing something this weekend at a local autox that really upset me > and led to something that was rather unexpected--an off-road excursion. > > I had noticed when I ran in the rain in my car that the abs came on pretty > suddenly. Nothing out of the ordinary there. I have noticed lately, though, > that my abs comes on from almost the time you hit the brakes. Granted, I hit > them hard but not hard enough to lock them up. Also, when I hit them even > harder (stand on them), the frequency of the pulsation changes (no, this not > a warped rotor). Any thoughts? > > Just for more info and something that could have a bearing on this--my > speedometer is off by +5mph with stock rim diameter and stock tires. > > Daniel Ledford > 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 22:08:28 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:09:33 -0400 Subject: Atlanta Procedure change Competitors entering the Atlanta SCCA NOPI Solo II series event this Sunday (April 18) should notice some changes in the registration process. REGISTER ON-LINE AT: or pick up a Registration form as you enter the site (get it from the greeter). 1. Go to the new INFORMATION / WAIVER station FIRST * Sign both waivers (one for the track, the other for SCCA), * log in your car class and number (permanent number sign up) * Pre-Registered entrants pick up forms here * get your wrist band * Novices can get their temporary car numbers and class letters here 2. Go to the REGISTRATION tent. Have: * Filled out and signed Entry Form * your Driver's License * SCCA membership card (if you are a member) * entry fee ($25 non-members, $20 members) GET * Work assignment from Worker Chief * Tech form 3. Prepare car 4. Place class letters and numbers on car 5. Go to Technical Inspection You are now ready to walk the course!!!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 22:09:54 1999 From: "Brian Naumann" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:29:31 +0000 Subject: RE: PSI Questions > I'm not especially keen on gas station air > compressors, since most of the ones around here either > don't have dryers in the air lines or never bother > emptying the water out of them (you do _not_ want any > moisture of any kind in your tire air). I have a > generic air bottle that I fill at my tire dealer or > the event site, which is generally dry and yields > consistent pressures. I only see about 2 psi increase > at autocrosses. This leads into a question I've been meaning to ask for some time: What do safety policies at autox events/race tracks say about high pressure gas cylinders? Basically, I have an opportunity to use small 2200 psig cylinders intended for portable medical oxygen use or helium ballon filling, and some 0-45 psig regulators that are intended for use with these cylinders for helium balloon filling. It is simple to slap a hose and air chuck on them and fill them with dry nitrogen. They have a DOT stamp on them (though I'm not sure exactly what it means) and I'm sure the people that use them (for medical reasons or for parties) carry them in their cars regularily. As part of my job I have performed drop tests, etc. on this combo and am pretty sure it is quite safe. The size I have access to at the present (medical "E" size, if that means anything to you), would have a capacity about 5 times that of my 5-gal portable air tank filled to its max 125 psig. Are there any current rules about this? How do people feel about this? Have any related accidents set a precedent? Brian Naumann brn6604@geocities.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 22:23:28 1999 From: Kevin Stevens To: Brian Naumann , autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:23:07 -0700 Subject: RE: PSI Questions Please paddock at least 1/4 mile away from me and I have no problem with it... KeS > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Brian Naumann > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 17:30 > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: PSI Questions > > > > I'm not especially keen on gas station air > > compressors, since most of the ones around here either > > don't have dryers in the air lines or never bother > > emptying the water out of them (you do _not_ want any > > moisture of any kind in your tire air). I have a > > generic air bottle that I fill at my tire dealer or > > the event site, which is generally dry and yields > > consistent pressures. I only see about 2 psi increase > > at autocrosses. > > This leads into a question I've been meaning to ask for some time: > > What do safety policies at autox events/race tracks say about high > pressure gas cylinders? Basically, I have an opportunity to use > small 2200 psig cylinders intended for portable medical oxygen use or > helium ballon filling, and some 0-45 psig regulators that are > intended for use with these cylinders for helium balloon filling. It > is simple to slap a hose and air chuck on them and fill them with dry > nitrogen. They have a DOT stamp on them (though I'm not sure exactly > what it means) and I'm sure the people that use them (for medical > reasons or for parties) carry them in their cars regularily. As part > of my job I have performed drop tests, etc. on this combo and am > pretty sure it is quite safe. The size I have access to at the > present (medical "E" size, if that means anything to you), would have > a capacity about 5 times that of my 5-gal portable air tank filled to > its max 125 psig. > > Are there any current rules about this? How do people feel about > this? Have any related accidents set a precedent? > > Brian Naumann > brn6604@geocities.com > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 22:36:12 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "autox" , "Justin Hughes" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:35:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality From: Justin Hughes To: autox ; Phil Ethier Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Neons- Quality >I'm willing to bet that the ability to overcome >the inherent understeer qualities of FWD is a big reason for the Neon's >popularity in our group. Understeer is not an inherent quality of FWD. The fact that most FWD cars DO plow like a farmer causes folks to think that it is. The understeer is caused by dismal mass distribution and suspension design. It appears that there is not a lot of perceived market for a FWD car with better-for-high-traction-surface performance mass distribution, since the nose-heavy layout helps low-traction-surface performance and is also a product of the search for passenger-space efficiency which can be an advantage of FWD design. There have been some FWD cars with decent mass distribution, and they have been praised for their handling in their time. The Cord, Miller and some of the Citroen cars spring to mind. A properly-balanced RWD car will be faster in the dry, and a nose-heavy FWD car will be faster in the slimy. To have one car that excels in both probably requires a properly-balanced AWD car. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 23:26:46 1999 From: Ghsharp@aol.com To: kkelly@spss.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:25:23 EDT Subject: Re: Significant Other Class In a message dated 4/12/99 7:04:31 PM EST, kkelly@spss.com writes: > You know, there's a good reason why I'm not on the SEB. Count your > blessings. Maybe you could be our Press Secretary, whaddyathink? It's like, you know... you could get up and explain what we did after we did it, or something. GH From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 01:33:15 1999 From: "Ron Bauer" To: , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:28:58 -0000 Subject: Re: DSM abs problem? How are you working your stomach this hard in autocross? :-) I was trying to figure out where the abs in a DSM car might be. Where is the midsection? Ron Bauer ronbauer@aa.net -----Original Message----- From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:04 AM Subject: DSM abs problem? >Hey all, > >I was noticing something this weekend at a local autox that really upset me >and led to something that was rather unexpected--an off-road excursion. > >I had noticed when I ran in the rain in my car that the abs came on pretty >suddenly. Nothing out of the ordinary there. I have noticed lately, though, >that my abs comes on from almost the time you hit the brakes. Granted, I hit >them hard but not hard enough to lock them up. Also, when I hit them even >harder (stand on them), the frequency of the pulsation changes (no, this not >a warped rotor). Any thoughts? > >Just for more info and something that could have a bearing on this--my >speedometer is off by +5mph with stock rim diameter and stock tires. > >Daniel Ledford >99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 02:08:18 1999 From: drpepper To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:07:09 -0400 Subject: PSI perplexions cont'd... What a great list! Thanks for all the replies about PSI. I have questions based on the answers received thus far: >A 7 gallon tank will raise all four of my tires, 245/40/17f 275/35/18r from >40 to 46 psi at 55 degrees F. Is there some sort of formula to determine how much/many times you can add air? I'm assuming it is based on PSI, temp, and humdity. >Spend the extra left over money on a good tire guage. Hint: Not the type >sold at most chain auto parts stores. What are good gauges? What should I look for and how much should I expect to pay? >Does anyone know of decent calibration services for air gauges? I'm a newbie to the land of the cone but, wouldn't calibration be sorta subjective? If your gauge is "off" but you are running fine wouldn't you just use those numbers the gauge gives you since you have no objective real-time comparison. Kinda like looking at a temp on the evening news, you know they measure it somewhere other than out your front window, but unless you have a outdoor thermometer you except it. >I have a generic air bottle that I fill at my tire dealer or the event site Do you have to pay for this? I'm sure that some places might get sick of seeing me pull up with my big red bottle every weekend. I'm also assuming that you empty the container fully after every event? How do you keep/get moisture out of the tank? Thank for the responses so far! Ed George drpepper@nacs.net NeOhio, Akron SCC '94 Duster #29 GS PS - (next i'll be asking how to covertly sabotage eclipse's and talon's so my car doesn't look as pathetic! :-) jk. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 04:20:57 1999 From: richj50@bit-net.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: McKamey: tire choice I'm scheduled to take McKamey Phase I this summer and I'm wondering what to do about tires. I ordinarily race my ESP car on 265 45 16 Kumhos on 10" rims, but I'm thinking about using a worn-out set of Good Year GS-C 245 50 16s on stock 8" rims for the school. Would this hurt my experience significantly? I'd rather not burn up $600 of rubber if I don't need to. Thanks, Rich Johnston 95 Z28 ESP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 05:29:48 1999 From: Oasis3223@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:28:39 EDT Subject: FS: CSP CRX-Si Selling 1986 Honda CRX-Si, Koni's, front and rear strut bars, sway bar, 7 inch wheels with 215-50-13 BFG's, also stock wheels with new set of Bridgestone Potenzas 185-60-13 for street tire class, Acura ECU and Injectors, K&N, new alternator, timing belt, competition springs, strong motor, with 112K, in Iowa , will help deliver, $2,000 319-643-2287 Bob From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 07:16:32 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Mtnman3620@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: DSM abs problem? Check for a seized caliper piston, perhaps? --- Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > I had noticed when I ran in the rain in my car that > the abs came on pretty > suddenly. Nothing out of the ordinary there. I > have noticed lately, though, > that my abs comes on from almost the time you hit > the brakes... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 07:59:38 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "drpepper" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:57:06 -0500 Subject: RE: PSI Questions > I have a versapak inflator that is poor to say the least... > > Sears has a 9gal, 125psi portable air tank with gauge and hose for $40. So > how much and how many times should I be able to put air in my tires? I use a 12 volt compressor that is about 20 years old and beat up from being tossed around. It isn't pretty or as fast as an air bottle, but it works well enough. I just start it up and move it between wheels as I empty out my stuff at the site and put the numbers on. It is always ready and never runs out of air. It also fits either in the trunk or front compartment of my Fiero, my 5 gallon tank doesn't fit in either. The calculation of how many times you can put air in your tires from a tank depend primarily on: The internal volume of the tire - could be estimated. The pressure in the tire and the increase wanted. Then either use the "ideal gas law" to calculate quantities of air needed or go from someone else's experience with appropriate adjustments based on the factors listed above. If you actually want to try to calculate it and do not know what the ideal gas law is, send me a message off line. It is actually a very easy formula. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 07:59:43 1999 From: "Ron Bauer" To: , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:54:45 -0000 Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice No, your experience won't be hurt. The philosophy of the McKamey Schools is to learn techniques, not how to drive your specific car faster (though hopefully this will happen.) In some cases in a learning enviornment, it's almost better to use tires that don't stick as well, because it teaches you to feel what the car is doing. It also can amplify what you are doing right, versus what you are doing wrong Ron Bauer ronbauer@aa.net -----Original Message----- From: richj50@bit-net.com To: autox@autox.team.net Cc: nersolo@ner.org Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 10:22 AM Subject: McKamey: tire choice >I'm scheduled to take McKamey Phase I this summer and I'm wondering what >to do about tires. I ordinarily race my ESP car on 265 45 16 Kumhos on >10" rims, but I'm thinking about using a worn-out set of Good Year GS-C >245 50 16s on stock 8" rims for the school. Would this hurt my experience >significantly? I'd rather not burn up $600 of rubber if I don't need to. > >Thanks, > >Rich Johnston >95 Z28 ESP > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:01:24 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "Kelly, Katie" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:57:12 -0500 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class > We were talking about how at the San Diego Tour a year ago, I, a > competitor > of 13 years, got to run Ladies, but my then boyfriend, Gumbo > Lambrusco (not > his real name), at his fifth autocross was pitted up against > George Doganis, > Kevin McCormick, and others. Gumbo thought this seemed backwards. If I was allowed to run in a national track event, would I be allowed to run against the women or would they make me run against other men? If women do not have an inherent disadvantage to men in autocross, why should they have their separate classes? > So, that's why some of us think we need to have a Significant > Others Class. > This isn't just my idea. A whole bunch of us thought of it, and darn it, > it's such a PC solution! It serves the same purpose of the Ladies > class, but > it's open to both genders. If you have trophies for this class, people will want to win. With a women's class, it is relatively easy to police the people who are allowed to enter. With a SO class, who is eligible. If you wanted to take an "easy" trophy, you could bring your SO with you and claim that he was the main competitor and you were the SO. If I show up without an SO, can I drive in the class because I am a crappy driver? Unless you make the SO class a sideshow that is just for fun, you need to clean up a lot of messy details. As Pat Washburn has pointed out, we have a class called Special Interest locally. Anyone can drive any car in it. No season records are kept. In order to keep someone from permanently sitting in it to pick up trophies (a first place trophy is given out if there are three competitors), you are kicked out of the class when you get a trophy. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:02:26 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "Brent DeWitt" , "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:57:09 -0500 Subject: RE: PSI Questions > Does anyone know of decent calibration services for air gauges? Most large cities will have a couple companies that calibrate gages. If you work in a company that uses gages, your Quality department should be able to tell you where they get theirs done. If you are nice to them, they may let you compare it to a recently calibrated digital gage. If you are really lucky, they may have a calibrator that they would let you use. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:12:16 1999 From: SlyFoxRc@aol.com To: mikemc@gte.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:11:32 EDT Subject: Re: Texas National Tour and a big THANK YOU! In a message dated 4/12/99 12:09:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mikemc@gte.net writes: << I drove to my spot in the paddock, popped the hood, revved the motor and came to the realization that what I was hearing was undoubtedly a rod knocking. >> Might want to consider the addition of an Accusump or the problem may keep rearing it's ugly head. Tracy Sandberg Sly Fox Racing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:13:05 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Bill Fuhrmann Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:08:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class How silly can it get? I still want to run in C-Mod/Catholic Mike B. TLS#1 Bill Fuhrmann wrote: > > We were talking about how at the San Diego Tour a year ago, I, a > > competitor > > of 13 years, got to run Ladies, but my then boyfriend, Gumbo > > Lambrusco (not > > his real name), at his fifth autocross was pitted up against > > George Doganis, > > Kevin McCormick, and others. Gumbo thought this seemed backwards. > > If I was allowed to run in a national track event, would I be allowed to run > against the women or would they make me run against other men? > > If women do not have an inherent disadvantage to men in autocross, why > should they have their separate classes? > > > So, that's why some of us think we need to have a Significant > > Others Class. > > This isn't just my idea. A whole bunch of us thought of it, and darn it, > > it's such a PC solution! It serves the same purpose of the Ladies > > class, but > > it's open to both genders. > > If you have trophies for this class, people will want to win. With a > women's class, it is relatively easy to police the people who are allowed to > enter. > > With a SO class, who is eligible. If you wanted to take an "easy" trophy, > you could bring your SO with you and claim that he was the main competitor > and you were the SO. > > If I show up without an SO, can I drive in the class because I am a crappy > driver? > > Unless you make the SO class a sideshow that is just for fun, you need to > clean up a lot of messy details. > > As Pat Washburn has pointed out, we have a class called Special Interest > locally. Anyone can drive any car in it. No season records are kept. In > order to keep someone from permanently sitting in it to pick up trophies (a > first place trophy is given out if there are three competitors), you are > kicked out of the class when you get a trophy. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:25:12 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: richj50@bit-net.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:24:00 -0500 Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice richj50@bit-net.com wrote: > > I'm scheduled to take McKamey Phase I this summer and I'm wondering what > to do about tires. I ordinarily race my ESP car on 265 45 16 Kumhos on > 10" rims, but I'm thinking about using a worn-out set of Good Year GS-C > 245 50 16s on stock 8" rims for the school. Would this hurt my experience > significantly? I'd rather not burn up $600 of rubber if I don't need to. Most of what you learn in the McKamey Schools you could learn with any car on any tires. However, for best results, you don't want to be distracted with the car behaving unexpectedly -- you'll learn most in a car/tire setup that you are familiar with. One extra you get with the McKamey School is a lot of seat time where you get a national champion caliber driver to show you just how fast your car setup can be. But, if you get enough seat time in your ESP car with your Kumhos, then using a different set would be okay. OTOH, you don't want to start cording your tires halfway through the school and miss out on some instruction dealing with tires. You said the tires are worn-out -- sounds risky to me. Finally, you won't use up your Kumhos in one school. I doubt seriously that you'll burn up more than $200 of rubber, let alone $600. Think of it as doing some tire shaving. ;^) Personally, I'd drive my best setup. But for me, tire money comes a lot easier than seat time. Not sure if that helped, but I hope so, Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:40:30 1999 From: bob1 To: Robert Steele , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:39:06 -0700 Subject: Re: air bags Thanks! there's a page there that has the status of cut-off swtich availability for all the cars... http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/airbags/manufli.html For example it says the cut-off switch for the 1990-1995 RX-7 has been available since Dec '98. And the Z3 is "TBD", which explains why the BMW salesman couldn't say they have it. Robert Steele wrote: > > you can get a cut fof switch. check the NHTSA website for details. > http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ > Rob > > Steele@Whafh.com Bob Larson From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:42:59 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:43:00 -0400 Subject: SO Class??? KK ripostes: <<>> So let me see if I understand this. If you are slower than your SO then you _have_ to run in the SO class? Whew! I can think of a couple of cases where this could be _very_ humiliating! Paul "no problem here" Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:51:27 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "Team.Net" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:49:20 -0500 Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice I think that one of the more than capable McKamey instructors that subscribes to this list can offer the best opinion on the street tire vs. race tire question. >From my experience in an FS Camaro, I ran both McKamey phases back to back on a new set of 245 45 X 16 Kumhos and at the end of the school, the tire were just getting "right". I would estimate that they had 70% of the wear left on them. In my situation, wear was not an issue. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: McKamey: tire choice > I'm scheduled to take McKamey Phase I this summer and I'm wondering what > to do about tires. I ordinarily race my ESP car on 265 45 16 Kumhos on > 10" rims, but I'm thinking about using a worn-out set of Good Year GS-C > 245 50 16s on stock 8" rims for the school. Would this hurt my experience > significantly? I'd rather not burn up $600 of rubber if I don't need to. > > Thanks, > > Rich Johnston > 95 Z28 ESP > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:55:04 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: Scott & Glenda Meyers Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:54:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Solo 2 Passengers??? Scott & Glenda Meyers wrote: > > I went looking and could not find a reference to this in the 99 rulebook. > > Are passengers in normal parking lot Solo 2's allowed? Yes > > If so, what age must they be? 12 > Do they have to be licensed drivers? No > Or due to the Junior stuff evolving, can they be younger these days? It is odd that an 8 year old can compete, but not be a passenger > > Where is this spelled out? page 47, section 1.4.C. Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:57:38 1999 From: Jason Suknot To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:57:57 -0500 Subject: Subject: TLS member in a Crisis! I have given some thought to seeking TLS membership myself but since I do occasionally wash what is left of the paint on my car I have not yet felt worthy enough to apply. After reading your post I had a thought, do those automatic car wash doodads count? I would never make the effort to hand wash the old thing and ruin a good sponge but I do run it through the auto wash after a fillup on occasion just to knock off the pollen and bugs. :-) Jason Suknot >I took a pledge to not wash my car when I joined Team Laughing Stock. I >thought it wouldn't be a big deal. Let everyone laugh at my soiled car. I >could stand it for a while. I just can't help but wash it! I can just see >her(Ms. Mitsubishi, my significant other at the moment) frowning and egging >me on to just 'do it'. >Well, it's happened twice now in the last three weeks! I need all the >support I can get from my TLS members. I don't want to recind my membership >but I feel I have no other choice...HELP!!! >Daniel "did some off-road racing this weekend...accidentally" Ledford >99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:58:05 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 10:56:00 -0500 Subject: Re: SO Class??? What about having a SOL class......... ;^) For those of us who either have less than desirable cars, can't drive, or BOTH! Scott Phelps TLS #11 88 Yugo GVX EP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:59:19 1999 From: Sam Strano To: richj50@bit-net.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:58:43 -0400 Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice At 09:24 AM 4/13/99 -0500, Brian M Kennedy wrote: >richj50@bit-net.com wrote: >> >> I'm scheduled to take McKamey Phase I this summer and I'm wondering what >> to do about tires. I ordinarily race my ESP car on 265 45 16 Kumhos on >> 10" rims, but I'm thinking about using a worn-out set of Good Year GS-C >> 245 50 16s on stock 8" rims for the school. Would this hurt my experience >> significantly? I'd rather not burn up $600 of rubber if I don't need to. Well, like anything else it's a matter of degrees. Want to learn all you can? Then you run the car the way you run the car. Saving money, and learning don't go together real well. I mean if you soften your springs, you'll get better tire wear, and save $$$, but it won't help you as much. >One extra you get with the McKamey School is a lot of seat time where you >get a national champion caliber driver to show you just how fast your car >setup can be. But, if you get enough seat time in your ESP car with your >Kumhos, then using a different set would be okay. Unless you are taking the school on a rough concrete lot, tire wear won't be much of an issue anyway. Besides, I know that you get quite long wear from your tires Rich. Sacrifice a little and learn all you can. >OTOH, you don't want to start cording your tires halfway through the school >and miss out on some instruction dealing with tires. You said the tires >are worn-out -- sounds risky to me. You can always switch to streets if need be. >Finally, you won't use up your Kumhos in one school. I doubt seriously >that you'll burn up more than $200 of rubber, let alone $600. Think of >it as doing some tire shaving. ;^) >Personally, I'd drive my best setup. But for me, tire money comes a >lot easier than seat time. I agree wholeheartedly. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:00:01 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Phil Ethier" , "autox" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:03:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality >A properly-balanced RWD car will be faster in the dry, and a nose-heavy FWD >car will be faster in the slimy. Having driven both in both conditions, I wholeheartedly agree. I've told my story of catching the tricked out BMW 2002tii in my Mercury Tracer on the ice - the Tracer being a very nose heavy FWD car. I can't catch the guy in the dry, but after driving the Tracer and my properly balanced RWD BMW 320i back to back on Saturday there's no question which I'll be driving. The Tracer's been retired from autox duty - the BMW's much faster and smoother despite its low power. >To have one car that excels in both probably requires a properly-balanced >AWD car. An AWD Talon turbo is an amazing thing...! Back to your original point, Phil - I think the dismal FWD handling tendancies you describe relate directly to the driving abilities of the masses. Here's how I see it... Once manufacturers got the hang of building FWD cars, average people noticed how much better they are in the slimy stuff and started buying them. Average people never were experts at tail-out drifting through a slippery turn, and FWD reduced the possibility that this might happen. Manufacturers saw that the average driver liked this, and so they designed cars to enhance these understeering tendancies, since average drivers on average roads can handle this easily - slow down a little and you're all set. Now obviously none of us qualify as "average" drivers. :) We expect more performance from our vehicles than Mr. George Grocery Getter, and we know how to handle a car better most since we flirt with the edges of our operating envelope on a regular basis. But it's a mandate from the masses, so in stock form most cars handle the way manufacturers perceive that most people want them to. A car like the Neon is an interesting exception - Dodge builds the ACR and R/T versions for people like us, and in so doing they balance the suspension a bit better. Yet I'll bet (guessing, haven't experienced this) the lesser versions handle with a lot more understeer, just like George Grocery Getter would expect, and actually want. Pony cars and Miatas handle like sports cars because, well, they are, and drivers want them to drive like that. OK, I've said a whole lot of things here, some of which may be totally off base. Waiting and watching... :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:03:06 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "drpepper" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:06:48 -0400 Subject: Pathetic looks? >PS - (next i'll be asking how to covertly sabotage eclipse's and talon's so >my car doesn't look as pathetic! :-) jk. That's what we call a sleeper. Your Duster looks a lot like the other low end Spirits out there, so people don't expect you to do well. Then you get out there and blow the competition away, much to their surprise. >:) A friend of mine has a Shadow ES, the turbocharged version. Looks like an econobox, but it hauls serious booty. :) - Justin '83 BMW 320i that will never be anywhere near as sleek as an Eclipse! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:06:59 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" , "Mike Bultemeier" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:10:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class >How silly can it get? > >I still want to run in C-Mod/Catholic Sounds good - I'll see you in H-Stock/RWD/BMW/black/15-20 year old car/25-30 year old driver/tall/thin/long blond hair/glasses/computer geek. :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:13:19 1999 From: "Lance Schueneman" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:12:54 -0500 Subject: DFW National Tour I'm coming off lurker mode to echo many other people's sentiments about the Tour put on by Texas Region this past weekend. Bud and his gang worked their tails off to put on a great event and it truly was one. I didn't get to run the practice course due to some minor car maintenance at the site and it really come back and bit me Saturday, but I was able to recover just enough to come in 2nd in class and trophy. 2 excellent, fun, challenging, nearly mile long courses provided by Roger made for a great weekend and some good shots by the photographers. The TMS track laps were unbelievably fun (gotta digitize and post that video from the S2 Mike), so much fun in fact I ran them Friday and Saturday. Good competition in my class also made the weekend great. I hope that the Street Touring class catches on with more regions and we start having bigger turnouts at this level of events. Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU! to everyone involved with putting this on, it was great and where do I signup for next year's one?? Lance Schueneman #49 ST - 96 Neon ACR - 2nd place Dallas NT From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:28:29 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:28:48 -0400 Subject: Convertibles <<>> Confucious say people who drive convertibles without roll bars are looking for a short life... Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:48:27 1999 From: "Moore, John" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:51:44 -0500 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Or if you are really worried about your S.O. enjoying themself and wanting to come back, why not have a "Couples Combined" class where the times are based upon the combined fastest times of the couple, then indexed using PAX to allow for a larger field to compete reletively fairly? John " Another Hare-Brained idea" Moore > -----Original Message----- > From: washburn [SMTP:washburn@dwave.net] > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 9:43 PM > To: Kelly, Katie > Cc: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Significant Other Class > > Kelly, Katie wrote: > > > > > I think the S.O. class is long overdue, especially as we enter the new > > millenium. > > Might I suggest that bringing ANY 5 event old autocrosser to a National > Tour will scare the bejeesus out of them? Set one up at your local > level and see how it works out, could be fun. We have a "Special > Interest" (read: Novice) class at home that pretty much does the same > thing. (No published times, no real competition.) Bring em out to > play! > > -- > Patrick Washburn > Wausau, WI Land of Cheese > 95 DS Neon > Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:51:45 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: ka1ult@channel1.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:50:25 EDT Subject: Re: Pathetic looks? In a message dated 4/13/99 11:05:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ka1ult@channel1.com writes: << PS - (next i'll be asking how to covertly sabotage eclipse's and talon's so >my car doesn't look as pathetic! :-) jk. >> Do like the incomperable John Thomas did with a Mercury Cougar...get the only dry run in the heat!!! :-) Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:05:41 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: , , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:03:45 -0700 Subject: TSOL Sure, Scott, we already have a TLS, so why *not* a Team SOL (TSOL). Sign me up for this one (seriously)! :) You have the Yugo, so you can be our leader, and it was your idea anyway. :) And because the word "sol" (Team Sol) means "sun" in one of the native languages of my home town of San Diego, we could always claim that this was the *real* meaning of the team name . . .! ;) My 2 cents as a relatively new autoxer who competes an SVO in ESP (which itself maybe s/b renamed "GMC" (General Motors Camaro), the SVO being a car that "used to be very competitive in the 80s", according to legend. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII-1C/ESP 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0-3J -----Original Message----- From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: autox@autox.team.net ; pfoster@gdi.net Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 7:58 AM Subject: Re: SO Class??? > > What about having a SOL class......... ;^) > > For those of us who either have less than desirable cars, can't drive, > or BOTH! > > > Scott Phelps > TLS #11 > 88 Yugo GVX EP > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:09:22 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:08:41 PDT Subject: Hoosier Tire pressures hello all, Can anyone give me an Idea of starting pressures for 245/45/16 Hoosiers on a 7" rim on a 2700lb car with 51/49 weight dist.? Hoosier says from 40-50 psi this is A big range and REALLY high Thanks in advance Jeff Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:10:56 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , , , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 12:08:34 -0500 Subject: Re: TSOL >Author: "richard nichols" wrote: >Sure, Scott, we already have a TLS, so why *not* a Team SOL (TSOL). >Sign >me up for this one (seriously)! :) You have the Yugo, so you >can be our >leader, and it was your idea anyway. :) >And because the word "sol" (Team Sol) means "sun" in one of the >native >languages of my home town of San Diego, we could always claim >that this was >the *real* meaning of the team name . . .! ;) >My 2 cents as a relatively new autoxer who competes an SVO in ESP >(which >itself maybe s/b renamed "GMC" (General Motors Camaro), the >SVO being a car >that "used to be very competitive in the 80s", >according to legend. >Richard Nichols >rnichol1@san.rr.com >86 Mustang SVO TII-1C/ESP >72 Pinto Sedan 2.0-3J What a great idea! TSOL vs. TLS in the ultimate Solo 2 showdown! The mustang I don't think qualifies, but the Pinto is a shoe in! Any interest in a friendly competition for TLS????? Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP TLS # 11 - but for how long???????? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:22:50 1999 From: "Susan L. Collicott" To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: TSOL On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: >What a great idea! TSOL vs. TLS in the ultimate Solo 2 showdown! Shouldn't that be "slowdown"? This is TLS, after all... Susan BS Pawprint Red '96 Miata R TLS #32 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:26:27 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Justin Hughes" , "Phil Ethier" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:29:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality >Here's how I see it... Once manufacturers got the hang of building >FWD cars, average people noticed how much better they are in the slimy stuff >and started buying them. Average people never were experts at tail-out >drifting through a slippery turn, and FWD reduced the possibility that this >might happen. Manufacturers saw that the average driver liked this, and so >they designed cars to enhance these understeering tendancies, since average >drivers on average roads can handle this easily None of this has anything to do with why we are plagued with FWD cars today. It all boils down to MONEY. It's CHEAPER to design and build a FWD car. Because of better packaging, you can also build a lighter, more fuel efficient car then you can with RWD and raise your CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy). If you sell bunches of econoboxes you'll raise your CAFE which in turn lets you sell more of the very profitable RWD luxo-barges and Pony Cars. Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:29:38 1999 From: Phil Vanner To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:22:56 -0500 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Well, the shouting matches in the really competitive couples would be fun to watch anyway... Or could we protest couples that we thought were getting together for competitive purposes only? Could be far more instructive than protests for participation in ladies. Phil Vanner "...do you promise to love, honor and take the McKamey phase 1 at the earliest opportunity..." -----Original Message----- From: Moore, John [SMTP:jmoore@spyglass.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 10:52 AM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Or if you are really worried about your S.O. enjoying themself and wanting to come back, why not have a "Couples Combined" class where the times are based upon the combined fastest times of the couple, then indexed using PAX to allow for a larger field to compete reletively fairly? John " Another Hare-Brained idea" Moore > -----Original Message----- > From: washburn [SMTP:washburn@dwave.net] > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 9:43 PM > To: Kelly, Katie > Cc: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Significant Other Class > > Kelly, Katie wrote: > > > > > I think the S.O. class is long overdue, especially as we enter the new > > millenium. > > Might I suggest that bringing ANY 5 event old autocrosser to a National > Tour will scare the bejeesus out of them? Set one up at your local > level and see how it works out, could be fun. We have a "Special > Interest" (read: Novice) class at home that pretty much does the same > thing. (No published times, no real competition.) Bring em out to > play! > > -- > Patrick Washburn > Wausau, WI Land of Cheese > 95 DS Neon > Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:29:49 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 12:25:56 -0500 Subject: Team SOL There has been a suggestion to create the nemesis of Team Laughing stock. Team SOL ! (if you don't know what it means, then you're SOL) Membership requirements: Driver or car must meet one or more of the following criteria: 1. You drive in a car anyone else would be embarrassed to ride in with you. 2. You drive a car classed in such a way, that you have ever so slim chances of winning. (you know who you are folks...) 3. You're been the worst driver of the day, more than once. 4. You've completed an entire event, without getting a time. 5. Your "race" tires are so hard, they feel like hockey pucks. If there's any interest in this, please respond.......... Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP #1, #3, and #5 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:31:21 1999 From: Michael Knapp To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:30:57 -0700 Subject: TLS I know I'm going to be sorry for asking.......... What is TLS Mike Knapp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:37:27 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Michael Knapp Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:32:30 -0500 Subject: Re: TLS Team Laughing Stock(It's a household name) Fortysome members across America ,Canada, Central America and parts of the former Soviet Bloc nations. TLS a Legend in our own minds Mike B. TLS#1 Michael Knapp wrote: > I know I'm going to be sorry for asking.......... > > What is TLS > > Mike Knapp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:49:36 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:53:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Team SOL > Membership requirements: > > Driver or car must meet one or more of the following criteria: > > 1. You drive in a car anyone else would be embarrassed to ride in > with you. Aw, man, that counts me out. The BMW is, well, a BMW, and the Mercury Tracer looks all right - even if it is an econobox, it's not as "revolting" as a Yugo or Pinto. > 2. You drive a car classed in such a way, that you have ever so slim > chances of winning. (you know who you are folks...) No chance in the Tracer - 88hp to an automatic? Shya right, even in HS!!! > 3. You're been the worst driver of the day, more than once. Been there, done that - at least, last year... :) > 4. You've completed an entire event, without getting a time. My first event! :) > 5. Your "race" tires are so hard, they feel like hockey pucks. What if you have no race tires? I ran the Tracer on its Cooper all seasons for a while. And scrubbed the hell out of them! - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:00:01 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:02:33 -0700 Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice Date sent: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:24:00 -0500 From: Brian M Kennedy Organization: i2 Technologies, Inc. To: richj50@bit-net.com Copies to: autox@autox.team.net, nersolo@ner.org Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice Send reply to: Brian M Kennedy > richj50@bit-net.com wrote: > > > > I'm scheduled to take McKamey Phase I this summer and I'm wondering what > > to do about tires. I ordinarily race my ESP car on 265 45 16 Kumhos on > > 10" rims, but I'm thinking about using a worn-out set of Good Year GS-C > > 245 50 16s on stock 8" rims for the school. Would this hurt my > > experience significantly? I'd rather not burn up $600 of rubber if I > > don't need to. > > Most of what you learn in the McKamey Schools you could learn with any car > on any tires. However, for best results, you don't want to be distracted > with the car behaving unexpectedly -- you'll learn most in a car/tire > setup that you are familiar with. > > One extra you get with the McKamey School is a lot of seat time where you > get a national champion caliber driver to show you just how fast your car > setup can be. But, if you get enough seat time in your ESP car with your > Kumhos, then using a different set would be okay. > > OTOH, you don't want to start cording your tires halfway through the > school and miss out on some instruction dealing with tires. You said the > tires are worn-out -- sounds risky to me. > > Finally, you won't use up your Kumhos in one school. I doubt seriously > that you'll burn up more than $200 of rubber, let alone $600. Think of it > as doing some tire shaving. ;^) > > Personally, I'd drive my best setup. But for me, tire money comes a > lot easier than seat time. > > Not sure if that helped, but I hope so, > > Brian > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:10:12 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:12:46 -0700 Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice Rich, I did the school a few weeks ago, on a concrete surface (Mather Field in Sacramento). Because of anticipated tire wear, I got recommendations from some very good people to use my 275/40/17 Kumhos, or use 245/45/17 BFG Comp TA street tires. No one recommended I use my slightly used 275/45/16 Hoosier A0S02's. For reference I have an ESP class 98 Ford SVT Cobra convertible. So what did I do? I had extra Hoosiers and I wanted to run on good tires for the surface so I decided to run the Hoosiers anyway. What happened? I didn't even run through them, not even rotating front to backs midway through the day. Did having ABS help? Perhaps. Or maybe it was because the people making recommendations were national champions or close to that caliber drive their tires much harder (and better) than my barely-out- of-novice-status. So, I guess it goes to show that "your mileage may vary." To be on the safe side though, have a spare set of tires (perhaps your street ones) and consider rotation midway through. More importantly, have fun, because McKamey school is a blast. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:20:12 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Paul Foster , "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:19:13 -0700 Subject: RE: SO Class??? Paul Foster writes... >So let me see if I understand this. If you are slower than your SO then >you _have_ to run in the SO class? Whew! I can think of a couple of >cases where this could be _very_ humiliating! No, no, you don't HAVE to run in the SO class. It is entirely up to you where you run, just as it is now. Only now, we are offering this choice to males who, for whatever reasons, might not feel comfortable racing in the Open class. Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's speed or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. Katie K. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:23:41 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:18:54 -0500 Subject: Texas Tour DSQ? Can someone who was at the Tour tell me why the guys in the Lola Sports 2000 were scored as a DSQ in C-Mod?????????? Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:32:14 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Bill Fuhrmann , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:31:25 -0700 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Bill Fuhrmann writes... >If women do not have an inherent disadvantage to men in autocross, why >should they have their separate classes? The Ladies classes were invented long ago because it was believed they did have an inherent disadvantage to men in autocross. It was the same disadvantage that prevented women from being CEOs and pilots and engineers and athletes. Nowadays, the Ladies classes exists to preserve marriages, AND because many women feel intimidated running with top male drivers. Some women who even autocross on their own, STILL run in the Ladies class. They feel comfortable there. I did for many, many years. Now, let's get some things straight. It's not that women who run Ladies are intimidated by competition. No, no, no, most LOVE competition. But talk to some of them, they tell you how it is with their husbands and boyfriends, and you just suddenly understand why they run Ladies. So, is this limited to women? I don't think so. I bet there are some really arrogant and egostistical women out there who cannot STAND being beaten by men. Yours truly is one of them. There are lots of men who would LOVE to run in the Ladies class, so I say, open it up, then. signed, Katie Kelly, who kind of can't believe people are taking this all that seriously. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:33:39 1999 From: "Moore, John" To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:36:54 -0500 Subject: Response from Kumho About the Extra Groove I have spoken with the Kumho Technical center about the extra groove that appeared in my front tires and received the following reply: > > The small groove on the centerline of the tire is related to a > > manufacturing process. When the tread > > rubber is extruded, a V-shaped groove is included at the centerline of the > > tread. This v-groove is used > > at the tire building machine when the tread is put onto the tire. A > > v-shaped roller is used to guide the > > tread onto the tire carcass. During the curing process of the tire, this > > groove may or may not > > completely close up. > > > > What you see is strictly cosmetic and has no effect on the durability of > > the tire. > > Thanks for using Kumho tires! Makes sense to me. John Moore 1993 Toyota MR2 NA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:35:01 1999 From: Karl Witt To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:30:14 -0400 Subject: RE: SO Class??? On or about 10:19 AM 4/13/1999 -0700, Kelly, Katie did say: >Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's speed >or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. Great idea! however, the name seems to be throwing the biggest monkey wrench in the works, so how about a new name? I was sitting here thinking (avoiding the associated horrible pain) and came up with an idea! It's flashy! It's hip! It's cutting edge! (Drum roll....) And the new name is... (you know...one of those really long drum rolls that indicates the daredevil has had a major accident back stage...) NOVICE! Provocative, I know, but give it a chance. I think it might work! Karl 98 Z28 71 ESP NER From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:45:44 1999 From: Craig Blome To: richj50@bit-net.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: McKamey: tire choice --- richj50@bit-net.com wrote: > ...I'm thinking about using a worn-out > set of Good Year GS-C > 245 50 16s on stock 8" rims for the school. Would > this hurt my experience > significantly? I'd rather not burn up $600 of > rubber if I don't need to. > Rich, FWIW my opinion is that your car will behave somewhat differently at the traction limit of its _race_ tires than at the limit of its _street_ tires. So, if you want the most benefit from the school, run the car in the exact configuration you will compete in, and cost be damned. There are plenty of people who do both options at McKamey, though. YMMV (literally). I did McKamey I & II last month on a set of 225/50-15 R1's with 110+ runs on them, and they only corded towards the end of day 2 (though they got really slippery for a while first...R1's do go off towards the end of their lives). But that was in a 2300# Miata... hth, Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:46:19 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Karl Witt , "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:45:04 -0700 Subject: RE: SO Class??? We couldn't call the SO class NOVICE. Is the Ladies class NOVICE? I don't think so! You'll find some of the BEST drivers in Ladies classes. K Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. > -----Original Message----- > From: Karl Witt [SMTP:kwitt@shore.net] > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 10:30 AM > To: team.net > Subject: RE: SO Class??? > > On or about 10:19 AM 4/13/1999 -0700, Kelly, Katie did say: > >Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's > speed > >or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. > > Great idea! however, the name seems to be throwing the biggest monkey > wrench in the works, so how about a new name? I was sitting here thinking > (avoiding the associated horrible pain) and came up with an idea! It's > flashy! It's hip! It's cutting edge! > > (Drum roll....) > > And the new name is... > > (you know...one of those really long drum rolls that indicates the > daredevil has had a major accident back stage...) > > > NOVICE! > > Provocative, I know, but give it a chance. I think it might work! > > Karl > 98 Z28 > 71 ESP > NER From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:50:10 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Karl Witt , "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: SO Class??? --- Karl Witt wrote: > > And the new name is... > > (you know...one of those really long drum rolls that > indicates the > daredevil has had a major accident back stage...) > > > NOVICE! > > Provocative, I know, but give it a chance. I think > it might work! > I've heard rumors that SWDiv may be including novice classes at divisionals this season (or perhaps street tire, my brain was fairly fried at the Tour!) Neat idea, though enforcing the experience level is gonna be tougher than at local clubs... Craig Blome From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:59:45 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Kelly, Katie" , "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:03:26 -0400 Subject: Re: SO Class??? >We couldn't call the SO class NOVICE. Is the Ladies class NOVICE? I don't >think so! > >You'll find some of the BEST drivers in Ladies classes. Well, what do we call it, then? "Other?" "None of the above?" Or how about one of Chong's (as in "Cheech and") brilliant moments: "It's like the same thing, only different, man..." :) From the sound of it, we'd end up with two classes, "separate but equal," that will no longer have any unique traits to distinguish them. Kind of like TLS and TSOL. >:) - Justin '83 BMW 320i into which he is leaping, then driving away as fast as he can before the flames start to arrive >:) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:02:57 1999 From: "Tom Holt" To: "Mike Bultemeier" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:02:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Texas Tour DSQ? They didn't stick around to work.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Tom Holt tholt@starlight.us.dell.com ---------- > From: Mike Bultemeier > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Texas Tour DSQ? > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 12:18 PM > > Can someone who was at the Tour tell me why the guys in the Lola Sports > 2000 > were scored as a DSQ in C-Mod?????????? > > Mike B. TLS#1 > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:03:25 1999 From: Karl Witt To: "Kelly, Katie" , "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:58:20 -0400 Subject: RE: SO Class??? On or about 10:45 AM 4/13/1999 -0700, Kelly, Katie did say: >We couldn't call the SO class NOVICE. Is the Ladies class NOVICE? I don't >think so! > >You'll find some of the BEST drivers in Ladies classes. > >K Point taken, after you last mail and this one I see what you're getting at. The other mails in this thread have taken it as a lower competition/newbie class, so I was going on that. Going on your idea of an optional class for men AND women, who don't want to run in Open, I'll go with Mike B's idea and run in ESP/6'2"/27 year old/Black Camaro Z28/Extra Contingency money over Open Class :) Karl From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:04:16 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "drpepper" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:59:16 -0400 Subject: Re: PSI perplexions cont'd... -----Original Message----- From: drpepper >Is there some sort of formula to determine how much/many times you can add >air? I'm assuming it is based on PSI, temp, and humdity. Sure there is, straight out of high school physics: Pressure time Volume is proportional to Temperature. Volume is easy -- you know the volume of the tank, and you can figure out the volume of the tire. Figure initial temperature in the tank and in a cold tire is the same as the outside air, and probably won't change radically during the exchange of air. Now you can figure out how many times you can bring the volume of your tire to a given pressure. Keep in mind that the pressure in the tank has to be higher than the pressure in the tire to fill it. Practically, I've found I have just enough air in a 7-gal tank charged to 125psi initial pressure to bring all four tires (225/50-15) from around 35psi to 50psi. Or to bring two of them up (since I run the rears at street pressures anyhow) and have enough air to do all the tweaking I need. >What are good gauges? What should I look for and how much should I expect >to pay? A good guage is any which gives you a repeatable result. A short hose with a bleed valve is nice. I got one through ImParts in St Louis (www.imparts.com) for about $20. >I'm a newbie to the land of the cone but, wouldn't calibration be sorta >subjective? If your gauge is "off" but you are running fine wouldn't you >just use those numbers the gauge gives you since you have no objective >real-time comparison. That's true, but how do you know when the guage is no longer delivering the same reading at a constant pressure? Which is the other reason we recalibrate measurement devices. >Do you have to pay for this? I'm sure that some places might get sick of >seeing me pull up with my big red bottle every weekend. I'm also assuming >that you empty the container fully after every event? How do you keep/get >moisture out of the tank? I just go to the gas station -- I've never had anyone chase me away from the air hose. The time you're tying up their air compressor is miniscule compared to the volume of "regular" traffic coming through. You'll only bleed the tank down to equal your tire pressure, if that. These tanks can store air a low pressures (125psi is low pressure) indefinitely, but they'll probably lose a little pressure between events due to temperature variations and very slow leaks around the valve assembly. You won't keep moisture out of the tank, any more than you keep it out of your tires. But if you're worried about corrosion in the tank, don't. Never seen one fail for that reason yet. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:05:16 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Justin Hughes , "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:01:15 -0700 Subject: RE: SO Class??? Justin Hughes writes... >Well, what do we call it, then? "Other?" "None of the above?" Or how >about one of Chong's (as in "Cheech and") brilliant moments: "It's like the >same thing, only different, man..." :) From the sound of it, we'd end up >with two classes, "separate but equal," that will no longer have any unique >traits to distinguish them. Kind of like TLS and TSOL. >:) See, that's IT! Nothing changes! It's just a new name! And NO, it's not like TLS or TSOL. Those are seperate entities in which I have no significant interest. K Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin Hughes [SMTP:ka1ult@channel1.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 11:03 AM > To: Kelly, Katie; team.net > Subject: Re: SO Class??? > > >We couldn't call the SO class NOVICE. Is the Ladies class NOVICE? I don't > >think so! > > > >You'll find some of the BEST drivers in Ladies classes. > > > Well, what do we call it, then? "Other?" "None of the above?" Or how > about one of Chong's (as in "Cheech and") brilliant moments: "It's like > the > same thing, only different, man..." :) From the sound of it, we'd end up > with two classes, "separate but equal," that will no longer have any > unique > traits to distinguish them. Kind of like TLS and TSOL. >:) > > - Justin > '83 BMW 320i into which he is leaping, then driving away as fast as > he > can before the flames start to arrive >:) > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:07:58 1999 From: Michael Knapp To: "'Team.Net'" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:07:16 -0700 Subject: SO Class Crazy idea, but why don't we just do away with the two classes and just have one? Does it really matter if you drive AS or ASL, fastest is fastest, and if your feelings get hurt - oh well. I too, will do a Justin, and drive off rapidly Mike Knapp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:09:23 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Brian Naumann" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:04:48 -0400 Subject: Re: PSI Questions -----Original Message----- From: Brian Naumann >What do safety policies at autox events/race tracks say about high >pressure gas cylinders? Basically, I have an opportunity to use >small 2200 psig cylinders intended for portable medical oxygen use or >helium ballon filling, and some 0-45 psig regulators that are >intended for use with these cylinders for helium balloon filling. It >is simple to slap a hose and air chuck on them and fill them with dry >nitrogen. This is similar to a question on using converted SCUBA tanks last year. I've never seen any rules regarding these, but personally, I wouldn't want a high-pressure bottle laying around in the paddock, especially in the bright sun. Sure, they can be dropped, but I've seen a SCUBA tank turn into rocket projectile when some clod dropped it at the wrong angle and knocked the valve off. Why take the chance? >The size I have access to at the present (medical "E" size, if that means anything to you), would have >a capacity about 5 times that of my 5-gal portable air tank filled to its max 125 psig. Is it that much trouble to fill the thing before events? IMO, if you need more air than a low-pressure tank provides, buy a good portable compressor. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:12:20 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:15:43 -0400 Subject: Re: SO Class??? >See, that's IT! Nothing changes! It's just a new name! Well, if nothing changes, and it's a new name, then what's the point? There has to be SOME difference for it to be worth having. Something like competitive/non-competitive. Those who are in it to win go into competitive. Those who are just out to have a good time and see how they do go into non-competitive. This is different than your proposal, I realize, since some (like you) are/were quite competitive within the Ladies category. Still need names, though... You're a writer, you can come up with something. ;) >And NO, it's not like TLS or TSOL. Those are seperate entities in which I >have no significant interest. Ah, I get it - you don't care about them, therefore they don't matter. >:) - Justin P.S. I'm also a tech writer, and I can't come up with better names either! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:17:59 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Michael Knapp" , "'Team.Net'" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:21:40 -0400 Subject: Re: SO Class >Crazy idea, but why don't we just do away with the two classes and just >have one? Does it really matter if you drive AS or ASL, fastest is fastest, >and if your feelings get hurt - oh well. > >I too, will do a Justin, and drive off rapidly Sounds like we're both getting at the same idea - want a ride? :) - Justin, the getaway car driver From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:22:02 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Karl Witt Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:17:08 -0500 Subject: Re: SO Class??? My opinion is that there shouldn't be Ladies or a Novice class. Everybody steps on the gas peddle the same way. I see no reason for seperate classes. Look at what happened at last years Nationals. The proof is in the pudding. Mike B.TLS#1 Mike B. TLS#1 Karl Witt wrote: > On or about 10:45 AM 4/13/1999 -0700, Kelly, Katie did say: > >We couldn't call the SO class NOVICE. Is the Ladies class NOVICE? I don't > >think so! > > > >You'll find some of the BEST drivers in Ladies classes. > > > >K > > Point taken, after you last mail and this one I see what you're getting at. > The other mails in this thread have taken it as a lower competition/newbie > class, so I was going on that. Going on your idea of an optional class for > men AND women, who don't want to run in Open, I'll go with Mike B's idea > and run in ESP/6'2"/27 year old/Black Camaro Z28/Extra Contingency money > over Open Class :) > > Karl From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:30:58 1999 From: "Meck, Christa" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:29:58 -0400 Subject: kumho Ok, I know to call CUT and the Tire Rack for my Kumhos... (Been there, done that.) But what's the 1-800-race-bfg number so I can get all the info on the $$$$. :) Same people (CUT)? Reply direct - digest mode. Thanks. - Christa FLR #125 SS and Chief Registrar. :) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:33:07 1999 From: "Wally Strzelec" To: "Craig Blome" , "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:34:06 -0500 Subject: SWDiv Novice Class, Was: SO Class??? From: Craig Blome > I've heard rumors that SWDiv may be including novice > classes at divisionals this season (or perhaps street > tire, my brain was fairly fried at the Tour!) Neat > idea, though enforcing the experience level is gonna > be tougher than at local clubs... It's not a rumor, we are going to try it. Not going to enforce any experience level. If you feel you are a Novice, then you can run in the Novice class for the entire series. Also new to the SWDiv Divisionals this year is a street tire class. Jun 12-13 Burton Colliseum, Lake Charles, LA Jul 10-11 Grand Sport Speedway, Hitchcock, TX Aug 7-8 Mineral Wells, TX -Wally Strzelec SWDiv Solo II Steward From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:37:04 1999 From: Richard Pilfold To: "'Jamie Sculerati'" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:25:58 -0700 Subject: RE: PSI Questions SCCA Rule Book 1.4N says - Pressurized gas and air bottles with a pressure in excess of 200psi must have a protective structure around their gauge and valves. Richard Pilfold -C.S.C.C. BSP 240Z "rpilfold@gdmoore.com" > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Sculerati [SMTP:jamies@mrj.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 11:05 AM > To: Brian Naumann; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: PSI Questions > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Naumann > > > >What do safety policies at autox events/race tracks say about high > >pressure gas cylinders? > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:45:47 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autox list" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:47:07 -0500 Subject: camcorder/computer interface? Howdy all!!! I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy method of attachment inside the car? Also, how do I get the pictures from the camcorder into my computer? Special video cards or software? Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:53:53 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: cblome@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:50:43 EDT Subject: R1s going off? (Was: Re: McKamey: tire choice) In a message dated 4/13/99 1:48:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cblome@yahoo.com writes: << R1's do go off towards the end of their lives >> I just corded a set of R1s and they were fast until the bitter end... Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:58:00 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "autox list" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:01:29 -0400 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? >I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set >it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might >even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy >method of attachment inside the car? Got a few, since I've been thinking about doing the same thing as soon as I can find a nice used 8mm camcorder. :) There are a few commercially available mounts. One suction cups onto your windshield like a radar detector. I doubt this would be legal or smart to use in an autox. Another is a mount that attaches to the headrests of the two front seats. The camera bolts onto the top of it. This is secure, and I've heard a version of this is legal for club racing. One idea that was suggested to me would be to find a fairly worn out extra headrest (pretty easy with an older car like mine), remove all the padding, and create a mount out of it. Then when you run just remove your normal passenger seat headrest and pop this in. >Also, how do I get the pictures from the camcorder into my computer? >Special video cards or software? Do you want just snapshots, b/w video, or full video/audio sampling? When I had my old camcorder (stolen a couple of years ago) I picked up a Snappy. It plugs into your printer port and includes software to make snapshots of any video input. I used my camcorder and the Snappy to take pics of anything I wanted, at least till it was stolen. I still have the Snappy, and plan to use it once I eventually replace the camcorder. Hope this has been somewhat useful. I'm not ALWAYS a smart ass. :) - Justin P.S.: Though I harassed you about the Neon, I'm seriously pondering an R/T myself... :) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:12:39 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "Kelly, Katie" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:12:53 -0400 Subject: Re: SO Class??? Kelly, Katie wrote: > > Paul Foster writes... > > >So let me see if I understand this. If you are slower than your SO then > >you _have_ to run in the SO class? Whew! I can think of a couple of > >cases where this could be _very_ humiliating! > > No, no, you don't HAVE to run in the SO class. It is entirely up to you > where you run, just as it is now. Only now, we are offering this choice to > males who, for whatever reasons, might not feel comfortable racing in the > Open class. > > Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's speed > or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. Whew, that's a relief! Now I can start dating again without the fear of being relegated to the SO class! And Jeff Reitmeier doesn't have to worry that he may someday need a divorce to run AS. But that still sounds like a form of discrimination. How about all the spinster / abstainer / hunting accident / knife victim males out there? Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:18:27 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:16:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class As best as I can recall, the idea of competing against others of similar talent/experience/native ability/determination/car preparation/RESULTS was postulated by one Ben Thatcher (aka "The SCCA Anti-Christ", a title FAR from the truth) in a publication known as North American Pylon a couple of years ago. I must admit that Ben presented an eloquent case for classing drivers based on results. If I remember correctly, he proposed either three or five levels where drivers competed against each other based on the results of prior competition. I thought this was brilliant "out of the box" thinking. He even had a concept that took into account drivers that sandbagged in order to be classed at a lower level. I think that concept is exactly what Katie (who by the way is my favorite writer, Hemmingway be damned) is trying to accomplish. Her idea may have been somewhat "tounge in cheek" at first, but wouldn't it be great to see what some "out of the box" thinking could do for this sport? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:20:19 1999 From: "Kent Rafferty" To: "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:17:53 -0400 Subject: SP Proposal - Part II I just received my issue of "Sportscar" and was very impressed with the changes made to the SP restructuring. For example, the BMW M3 was moved from Group 6 (E/SP) to Group 2 (BSP), the Japanese Turbocars (Supra, 300ZX, Stealth, etc. but not the RX-7) were moved from Group I (ASP) to Group II (BSP). It's obvious the powers-that-be listened to member input and incorporated the more reasoned recommendations into the current proposal. BTW, I'm still intrigued by a Griffith in A/SP - is it possible to tame that beast for 60 seconds at a time??? Or, if I win the lottery or sell some secrets to China - how about a 289 Cobra in B/SP?? Kent Rafferty E/SP Supra TT From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:21:14 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Paul Foster , "Kelly, Katie" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:20:22 -0700 Subject: RE: SO Class??? Paul Foster writes... >Whew, that's a relief! Now I can start dating again without the fear of >being relegated to the SO class! And Jeff Reitmeier doesn't have to >worry that he may someday need a divorce to run AS. But that still >sounds like a form of discrimination. How about all the spinster / >abstainer / hunting accident / knife victim males out there? Well, you are correct. It DOES sound like a form of discrimination, but now it's a VOLUNTARY form of discrimination. Katie Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Foster [SMTP:pfoster@gdi.net] > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 12:13 PM > To: Kelly, Katie > Cc: team.net > Subject: Re: SO Class??? > > Kelly, Katie wrote: > > > > Paul Foster writes... > > > > >So let me see if I understand this. If you are slower than your SO then > > >you _have_ to run in the SO class? Whew! I can think of a couple of > > >cases where this could be _very_ humiliating! > > > > No, no, you don't HAVE to run in the SO class. It is entirely up to you > > where you run, just as it is now. Only now, we are offering this choice > to > > males who, for whatever reasons, might not feel comfortable racing in > the > > Open class. > > > > Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's > speed > > or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. > > Whew, that's a relief! Now I can start dating again without the fear of > being relegated to the SO class! And Jeff Reitmeier doesn't have to > worry that he may someday need a divorce to run AS. But that still > sounds like a form of discrimination. How about all the spinster / > abstainer / hunting accident / knife victim males out there? > > Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:27:23 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Greg Lee" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:31:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class >As best as I can recall, the idea of competing against others of similar >talent/experience/native ability/determination/car preparation/RESULTS was >postulated by one Ben Thatcher (aka "The SCCA Anti-Christ", a title FAR from >the truth) in a publication known as North American Pylon a couple of >years ago. I must admit that Ben presented an eloquent case for classing >drivers based on results. If I remember correctly, he proposed either three >or five levels where drivers competed against each other based on the >results of prior competition. I thought this was brilliant "out of the box" >thinking. He even had a concept that took into account drivers that >sandbagged in order to be classed at a lower level. > >I think that concept is exactly what Katie (who by the way is my favorite >writer, Hemmingway be damned) is trying to accomplish. Her idea may have >been somewhat "tounge in cheek" at first, but wouldn't it be great to see >what some "out of the box" thinking could do for this sport? Or perhaps both of them at the same time... Near the end of the Boston Chapter BMW CCA autocross season, we plan on running an "autocross shootout." We'll take the top 3 drivers in each BMW class and run them against each other, using a handicap system that will be created based on their car's point value in our class system and additional data we accumulate throughout the year to pretty much eliminate any advantage an M Coupe would have over, say, an '83 320i. >:) So basically, the class winners will compete directly against each other for a further award. Kind of like the Showcase Showdown on the Price is Right, except more exciting. :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:32:01 1999 From: whitney To: "Kent Rafferty" , "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:30:31 -0700 Subject: Re: SP Proposal - Part II I panic'd briefly when I saw the Integra GSR in DSP, but then realized D had been shifted down to ESP etc. Seems pretty reasonable, but the M3 may be an overdog for BSP on the right courses - even against the Z cars. Time to write a letter I guess. Stan At 03:17 PM 4/13/99 -0400, Kent Rafferty wrote: >I just received my issue of "Sportscar" and was very impressed >with the changes made to the SP restructuring. For example, >the BMW M3 was moved from Group 6 (E/SP) to Group 2 (BSP), >the Japanese Turbocars (Supra, 300ZX, Stealth, etc. but not the >RX-7) were moved from Group I (ASP) to Group II (BSP). > >It's obvious the powers-that-be listened to member input and >incorporated the more reasoned recommendations into the >current proposal. > >BTW, I'm still intrigued by a Griffith in A/SP - is it possible to tame >that beast for 60 seconds at a time??? Or, if I win the lottery or sell >some secrets to China - how about a 289 Cobra in B/SP?? > >Kent Rafferty >E/SP Supra TT > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:35:04 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Kent Rafferty Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:40:04 -0700 Subject: Re: SP Proposal - Part II Kent Rafferty wrote: > > I just received my issue of "Sportscar" and was very impressed > with the changes made to the SP restructuring. For example, > the BMW M3 was moved from Group 6 (E/SP) to Group 2 (BSP), > the Japanese Turbocars (Supra, 300ZX, Stealth, etc. but not the > RX-7) were moved from Group I (ASP) to Group II (BSP). > > It's obvious the powers-that-be listened to member input and > incorporated the more reasoned recommendations into the > current proposal. I spotted one thing that I don't recall in the last proposal. The Fiat X1/9 was split into two classes, and the 1500 was put into what is effectively CSP. I for one, don't believe the X1/9 deserves getting bumped. I still think that other DSP cars can get to it. But now that I've said it, let the flames rise high... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:12:13 1999 From: Mark Todd To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:14:09 -0500 Subject: Aftermarket electric fans Hey everyone, I'm having to replace my electric cooling fan, and was wondering if anyone has experience with aftermarket fans, since the dealership is not really an option due to price. The Perma-Cool has the edge on price, cfm, and amperage. What's the catch? Are they screaming banshees? Please reply directly. I need to order something today. Thanks Mark Todd #323 E Modified Ostensibly Legal Racing Team From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:17:31 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 16:14:48 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: TSOL Author: "Susan L. Collicott" wrote: >>What a great idea! TSOL vs. TLS in the ultimate Solo 2 showdown! >Shouldn't that be "slowdown"? >This is TLS, after all... >Susan >BS Pawprint Red '96 Miata R >TLS #32 Good one! But alas, you have a car which is nationally capable, I can't believe there's any duct tape on it either..... ;^) We'll see you TLS members on course! (if we stay on course that is...) Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP TSOL #1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:18:08 1999 From: Chris Sims To: autox mail list Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SO idea Greetings all, If the goal is to get SOs involved, then perhaps a new class isn't the answer. Maybe we could stage an event (or more if people like) aimed at couples. We could have a day of autocross with extra emphasis on help for the newbie. Awards for whatever at the end of the event. Then off to dinner/lunch for more socializing. It would be a chance for SOs to meet and greet and get a taste of autocross in low-pressure high-fun way. Thoughts? Chris ********************************************************************** * * * Chris Sims * * http://www.simshome.com * * * ********************************************************************** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:30:45 1999 From: Randy Chase To: Justin Hughes Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:33:30 -0700 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? > >I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set > >it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might > >even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy > >method of attachment inside the car? Yep. Use a CruiseCam! If you have standard headrests, this is slick! I found this product and am sold. Now I sell it thru my business. I will be bringing it to the Atwater ProSolo. Now to get the digital camcorder and I can upload the days runs to the webpage...woooohooooo, instant "almost like being there". 8-) Oh...for those TLS folks, we can cover the anodized aluminum with a roll of duct tape and no one will know. 8-P For info: http://www.sandiegocrusaders.com/cruisecam/ Randy Chase From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:39:47 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:39:20 CDT Subject: Camera mounts for autocross Justin writes: > There are a few commercially > available mounts. One suction cups onto your windshield like a radar > detector. I doubt this would be legal or smart to use in an autox. I hope that's not the case, since my wife gave me one for Christmas. Its made by Hama in Germany, and if you don't believe suction/air pressure is good enough, you should see some of my video. I even use an old 8mm camera which is very bulky and heavy by today's standards, but it doesn't give this mount any challenge. She got it from HMS Motorsport. I wouldn't have asked for it if several people on this list hadn't recommended it. One more word, you will need a wide-angle adapter for the camcorder, or else you won't be able to see what you're trying to steer at. I bought a decent one from Coast to Coast, ultra wide 0.42 focal length multiplier. It rocks. > >Also, how do I get the pictures from the camcorder into my computer? > >Special video cards or software? There are several video cards with TV tuners and video inputs, they come with software to create video files. But the files are so big, you'd be smart to get a CD-R drive to save them to. I can't be more specific than that since I haven't done it myself. -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:48:21 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Jeff Blankenship" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:52:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Camera mounts for autocross >I hope that's not the case, since my wife gave me one for Christmas. Its >made by Hama in Germany, and if you don't believe suction/air pressure >is good enough, you should see some of my video. I even use an old >8mm camera which is very bulky and heavy by today's standards, but it >doesn't give this mount any challenge. She got it from HMS Motorsport. >I wouldn't have asked for it if several people on this list hadn't >recommended it. I saw exactly the mount you talked about when I was at HMS on Saturday. Admittedly I didn't take a close look at it, and you have, so I'll take your word for how well it sticks. I was thinking of those radar detector mounts that never stick. However, you may want to check with officials at events you run to see if they'll let you run with the camera hooked up. Technically, it's not bolted down, and I'd hate to see you get DQed for getting some excellent footage! >One more word, you will need a wide-angle adapter for the camcorder, or >else you won't be able to see what you're trying to steer at. I bought >a decent one from Coast to Coast, ultra wide 0.42 focal length multiplier. >It rocks. Thanks for the tip! >There are several video cards with TV tuners and video inputs, they come with >software to create video files. But the files are so big, you'd be smart >to get a CD-R drive to save them to. I can't be more specific than that >since I haven't done it myself. Actually a friend of mine probably has all this. He has everything. :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:48:36 1999 From: Bret Dodson To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Re[2]: TSOL > Author: "Susan L. Collicott" wrote: > >>What a great idea! TSOL vs. TLS in the ultimate Solo 2 showdown! > >Shouldn't that be "slowdown"? > >This is TLS, after all... > >BS Pawprint Red '96 Miata R On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > Good one! But alas, you have a car which is nationally capable, I > can't believe there's any duct tape on it either..... ;^) Hey there! I happen to know that '96 Miata Rs come from the factory with staples installed in the body work. My car even has some factory installed masking tape with paint on it. I had to be extra careful when installing my roll bar not to damage this precious, factory installed masking tape with paint on it. Luckily I was able to get some Mazda factory-spec staples for reassembling my airdam after the run-in with the curb I had during last x-mas eve's snow storm. My '96 Miata R will have some more duct tape installed on it soon, as I need to repair one of my inner fender well liners. Seems they can't hold up to much cone contact... > Scott Phelps > 88 Yugo GVX EP I had a Yugo! I loved it dearly. I surprised many a Camaro drvier as I passed them on the outside around freewaay on and off ramps! Yugos are one of the best performance bargfains out there. All the Fiat 128/Strada/X19/127 mods can be incorporated into them. Adn they have some design improvement over the old Fiat stuff! I was going to build a 9,000 rpm 1500cc giant killer motor for my Yugo, but I got rear-ended by a Plymouth Satellite and I was given a short wheelbase Yugo. sigh. Bret "Hmm... Prepared class Yugo in my Future?" Dodson '96 Miata R, red with white stripes Seattle, WA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:48:46 1999 From: "Daniel J. Radcliffe" To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:48:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? Eric, If you have a non-digital camcorder, try the Snappy software. The latest version includes the ability to upload video to your computer through their interface. www.snappy.com Dan Radcliffe Sussex, WI '82 Z-28 CP On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Eric Linnhoff wrote: > Howdy all!!! > > I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set > it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might > even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy > method of attachment inside the car? > > Also, how do I get the pictures from the camcorder into my computer? > Special video cards or software? > > Thanks in advance. > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. > I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. > Ah, you reach down, between my legs, > ease the seat back. > She's blinding, I'm flying, > Right behind the rear-view mirror now. > Got the feeling, power steering, > Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" > ------------------------------------------------------------- > "Panama" by Van Halen > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:52:51 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Daniel J. Radcliffe" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:56:31 -0400 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? >If you have a non-digital camcorder, try the Snappy software. The latest >version includes the ability to upload video to your computer through >their interface. www.snappy.com Is it possible to upgrade a 2-3 year old Snappy for this capability? Mine only scans single pics. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 15:02:28 1999 From: CLAY MCLENDON To: autox :; Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:01:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [323GTX] weird misfire I had a similar problem about a year ago. It started with a slight boost dependent skip on the interstate at constant boost. Right around 7-8 psi. As it gradually broadened it's range, I tried everything to fix it. First check if it's the fuel. I ran a tee in the fuel line and measured fuel pressure (with a dial air gauge from the auto parts store) while running where it skipped (gauge taped to outside of windshield). You can also check by running a multimeter to the O2 sensor. Hot lead to the O2, black to ground. Then bring the meter into the car (or tape to windshield), and run it again with it skipping and check the voltage. I can't recall, but I think low voltage (.3V) is rich, somewhere around .7V is Stoichiometric, and high (.11V) is lean. (Someone correct me if I am wrong) This will let you know if it is fuel or spark. Mine was running rich. I replaced the entire ignition system, checked all air inlet hoses and ended up eliminating everything but the turbo. I had it rebuilt and it fixed everything. I hope this isn't your problem, but these tests should help you eliminate some possibilities. kimmo.hintsala@ntc.nokia.com on 04/13/99 06:18:07 AM To: 323gtx@makelist.com @ INTERNET cc: Subject: [323GTX] weird misfire hello !!!! could someone help me with my problem. My GTX starts to misfire or runs out of fuel when the boost pressure goes over 0.4 bar I try to change plugs but no luck I also try to find air leak but found none. What can cause this, car runs good on idle and normal driving . Fault is only depend on boost pressure(not rpm or speed or gear) . it run better in mornings when it's colder the boost can go up to 0.5 but that's it it feels like it dies out ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups Spotlight: "Kosovo-Reports" - Direct reports from Kosovo/Serbia/Yugoslavia. http://offers.egroups.com/click/252/0 eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/323gtx Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 15:13:50 1999 From: Gail/Sid deLeon To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:12:08 -0500 Subject: Results Just checked and the results from the National Tour in Texas are up on the SCCA Web Site. http://www.scca.org/amateur/nat_tour/1999/ft-worth/results.html Gail deLeon From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 15:40:20 1999 From: "Eric W. Clements" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:31:19 -0400 Subject: Fw: camcorder/computer interface? --------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: "Eric Linnhoff" >I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set >it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might >even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy >method of attachment inside the car? Doesn't your friend Mike have some duct tape and bailing wire you could borrow ? ; ) EC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 15:45:59 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: Re: DSM abs problem? I would suspect something is not right with one of the wheel speed sensors. the control module is getting misinformation that one of the wheels is too slow and begins dumping pressure as soon as brakes are applied. although, I would guess the ABS module would have set some kind of trouble code or warning light. but anyway, check the electrical connections at the wheels. if you ran over some debris or had an off-road excursion something may have jostled loose. If there is a left or right pull when braking maybe one of the fronts is dumping pressure, if there is no pull I would suspect the back is dumping pressure. good luck. Dave Yeung Houston Region On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:00:15 EDT Mtnman3620@aol.com writes: > I have noticed lately, though, that my abs comes on from almost the time you hit the brakes. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 15:51:17 1999 From: "Jeff Cawthorne" To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:49:04 -0700 Subject: San Diego Tour Photographers? Where there any photographers at the San Diego Tour? I would like to get a really nice shot of my Corvette in action, I know the Sportscar Photographer was there is he on line? I was also at the San Bernardino Pro, so if anyone has any good photos of my car in action let me know. Oh, ya! I was driving a Yellow 92 Corvette, #66 SS at the Tour and #66 P3 at the Pro. Jeff Cawthorne '92 Corvette SS San Diego From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 16:50:01 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:53:58 -0700 Subject: Diagnosing Front End Noise - Help The car is a 1992 Nissan 240 SX SE, 91000 miles. It has a consistant 'spring-like' noise whenever I step firmly on the brakes (at most speeds), and also most of the time when turning at slow speeds at sharp angles, as the steering rack moves from one side to the other (without touching the brakes). It is not a 'clunk', more like hearing the spring move against its seats (a creak?). My wife swears she can feel it with her feet in the passenger seat. It appears to be only from the front right side. It can be head outside the car (how special..........). It actually sounds like old springs creaking in an ancient bed (don't ask). The car has had the noise since purchase, and has no known front end damage upon close inspection. All looks factory. I have recently changed the two front lower a-arm locating rods (locating the lower a-arm against the frame, run at about a 45' angle towards the front frame member) with two new pieces, all four struts with new Tokico, and even the sagging top strut insulator/bearing on the two front assemblies. All are assembled by the book. I really though that would do it.........nope. :-( So, any ideas on what else this ghostly noise might be? I'm running out of parts to buy...... :-) I would appreciate any and all advice on what to look at next. Thanks, Scott Meyers Car runs fine other than this darn noise. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 17:21:08 1999 From: "John F. Kelly Jr." <76067.1750@compuserve.com> To: All Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:18:30 -0400 Subject: April 1999 Pylon The April 1999 issue of North American Pylon was mailed April 2 in San Francisco, CA. Most subscribers should have received it by this time. We covered: The SCCA Meridian and San Diego Tours. The SCCA Pro Solo at Fort Myers, FL. Tidewater SCC's Wintercross 4 at Chesapeake, VA. NASA's second event in its "drive it like you stole it" series at Mather Field, Rancho Cordova, CA. Detroit Council's 1998 season finale. SCCA SoPac Divisional at Pahrump, NV. (Yes, there is such a place.) Features include columns by: Byron Short on why you don't need sustained lateral g's. Dwayne Komush on building a windage screen. JD Kemp explains his love affair with Jaguars. (Don't dig too deep on this one.) Henry Watts offers further thoughts on why Porsche owners do what they do. DeWitt Boyd explains why autocrossing is "popular." Bill Lorenzen's road test covers Oldsmobile's Alero coupe. Our interview is with Debbie Fessler, the E Stock Ladies National Champion from SCCA's Northwest Ohio Region. The calendar is showing its normal springtime expansion but not every club/region has checked in yet. And the editor has sounded off on why SCCA should restructure itself. Plus there are lots of photos. If you missed it, call 1-800-KT-KELLY and buy a 12-month suvbscription for $24. Please call between 9 a.m.-5 p.m. west coast time. --John Kelly, editor From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 17:30:00 1999 From: "Brad Holliday" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:29:34 PDT Subject: MR2 Turbo Setup Problems I need some advise on setting up my 91 MR2 turbo. The car was very difficult to control (severe overstear) this weekend at the National Tour event. The car was setup up as follows: Front - -2.5 deg camber, 5.0 deg caster, 1/16" Toe-out (per side) Rear - -1.5 deg camber, 1/8" Toe-in (per side) Shocks - Tokico Illuminas- Position 5 front/ Position 1 Rear (5 is stiff/1 is soft) Tires - Kumho 205/55/15 all around - 34 psi front/ 31 psi rear Stock Sway Bar The above setup was by far the most stable setup. The worst had the same shock settings with tires set to 32 psi front/ 38 psi rear. Also ran, with shocks at 5 front/ 2 rear with 34 psi front/ 36 psi rear. I have a Suspension Techniques swaybar on order, but it won't be here in time for the McKamey school this weekend. I would really like to be able to control my car this weekend. I was advised to add more toe-in to the rear. Is there anything else I can do? The tire pressure seemed backwards to me, but it worked. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad Holliday Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 18:17:28 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:17:55 -0600 Subject: Fw: Team SOL How about a #6? You get no respect when the trophy is a photo of your car in the event, there are 42 cars in the class, and they take pictures of all the cars but yours..... and you place second!!! In my case, they gave me the picture frame with a dealership postcard of a similar car. -----Original Message----- From: Justin Hughes To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 10:52 AM Subject: Re: Team SOL >> Membership requirements: >> >> Driver or car must meet one or more of the following criteria: >> >> 1. You drive in a car anyone else would be embarrassed to ride in >> with you. > >Aw, man, that counts me out. The BMW is, well, a BMW, and the Mercury >Tracer looks all right - even if it is an econobox, it's not as "revolting" >as a Yugo or Pinto. > >> 2. You drive a car classed in such a way, that you have ever so slim >> chances of winning. (you know who you are folks...) > >No chance in the Tracer - 88hp to an automatic? Shya right, even in HS!!! > >> 3. You're been the worst driver of the day, more than once. > >Been there, done that - at least, last year... :) > >> 4. You've completed an entire event, without getting a time. > >My first event! :) > >> 5. Your "race" tires are so hard, they feel like hockey pucks. > > >What if you have no race tires? I ran the Tracer on its Cooper all seasons >for a while. And scrubbed the hell out of them! > > - Justin > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 18:30:05 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:30:48 -0600 Subject: Fw: SO Class??? What Novice? The idea of a Novice Class is to allow newcomers a place to learn until a set factor is accomplished. We used to have a TYRO class for people to run in as long as they didn't start beating the hot shoes. {I know, that's a limit} Thus allowing more entries by folks who didn't want to spend the big bucks to be competing for first place! We run that here in Casper, Wyoming, still......so move here, huh. -----Original Message----- From: Kelly, Katie To: Karl Witt ; team.net Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 11:48 AM Subject: RE: SO Class??? >We couldn't call the SO class NOVICE. Is the Ladies class NOVICE? I don't >think so! > >You'll find some of the BEST drivers in Ladies classes. > >K > >Katie Kelly >Technical Publications >SPSS Bay Area >(510)412-2812 >mailto:katiek@spss.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Guilt slows your metabolism. > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Karl Witt [SMTP:kwitt@shore.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 10:30 AM >> To: team.net >> Subject: RE: SO Class??? >> >> On or about 10:19 AM 4/13/1999 -0700, Kelly, Katie did say: >> >Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's >> speed >> >or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. >> >> Great idea! however, the name seems to be throwing the biggest monkey >> wrench in the works, so how about a new name? I was sitting here thinking >> (avoiding the associated horrible pain) and came up with an idea! It's >> flashy! It's hip! It's cutting edge! >> >> (Drum roll....) >> >> And the new name is... >> >> (you know...one of those really long drum rolls that indicates the >> daredevil has had a major accident back stage...) >> >> >> NOVICE! >> >> Provocative, I know, but give it a chance. I think it might work! >> >> Karl >> 98 Z28 >> 71 ESP >> NER From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 18:50:31 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: "Brad Holliday" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:49:48 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 Turbo Setup Problems >Front - -2.5 deg camber, 5.0 deg caster, 1/16" Toe-out (per side) >Rear - -1.5 deg camber, 1/8" Toe-in (per side) >Shocks - Tokico Illuminas- Position 5 front/ Position 1 Rear (5 is >stiff/1 is soft) >Tires - Kumho 205/55/15 all around - 34 psi front/ 31 psi rear >Stock Sway Bar > >I was advised to add more toe-in to the rear. Is there anything else >I can do? The tire pressure seemed backwards to me, but it worked. >Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. You can add more toe, and that will definitely help quell the oversteer beast, but you're getting out there in toe setting if you go beyond 1/4" per side. The ST bar will help you a LOT, but if you don't have it, that info doesn't help you much. I'm very surprised that it's a major problem with the front struts full stiff and the rears full soft. How old are the tires? David Hawkins 93 Mr2 Turbo 85 Mr2 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 19:10:06 1999 From: "Dan Radcliffe" To: "Justin Hughes" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:47:34 -0000 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? Justin, I bought the latest snappy 3.0 Deluxe at www.buy.com for $105.95. Best price I found. They may have the upgrade info on their website or the snappy website. www.play.com Dan Radcliffe -----Original Message----- From: Justin Hughes To: Daniel J. Radcliffe Cc: autox list Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:54 PM Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? >>If you have a non-digital camcorder, try the Snappy software. The latest >>version includes the ability to upload video to your computer through >>their interface. www.snappy.com > > >Is it possible to upgrade a 2-3 year old Snappy for this capability? Mine >only scans single pics. > > - Justin > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 19:13:19 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: "Mike Bultemeier" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:40:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Texas Tour DSQ? Mike, it may have been that they did not show for work assignment. I have not heard of any official protests for the event. Several folks show a dsq, and a couple of them I know did not return Sunday, therefore missing their work assignment, as well as their runs... Phil O. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:25 PM Subject: Texas Tour DSQ? >Can someone who was at the Tour tell me why the guys in the Lola Sports >2000 >were scored as a DSQ in C-Mod?????????? > >Mike B. TLS#1 > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 19:14:09 1999 From: Gary Spray To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:25:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Miata Top...SECURE??? At 12:10 AM 4/12/1999 -0400, Eric Moon wrote: >I drove my '92 Miata in an event today where I was given grief for having >my top down, but not secure. Secure? You mean putting a vinyl boot cover >over a convertible top makes it secure? Since I didn't have my boot cover, >I was instructed to run with my top up. >Have you ever heard of this? As far as I can remember, guys run without >their boot cover all the time. People running rollbars almost can't use the >boot. >Was this guy just giving me a hard time over nothing? > I think what he was worried about was the top trying to raise itself if you hit a bump on course. I know, it seems impossible but if you've ever seen a Miata hardtop, they have two little gizmos inside to keep the soft top secure when the hardtop is on. I guess Mazda must think it could happen... OBTW, I DON'T think the Miata soft top frame is strong enough to support MY weight much less the weight of an upside down Miata. ---- Gary Spray Topeka, Kansas Crystal White '90 A (with white Mazda alloys) M Club #43 Miata Club Of America Kansas Region SCCA ** WAX? I bought it to DRIVE! ** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 19:22:43 1999 From: Randy Chase To: Brad Holliday Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:25:25 -0700 Subject: Re: MR2 Turbo Setup Problems A little more toe-in on the rear will help, but you need the fatter front bar also. I am running about 3/16" in per side right now. Also, wider tires on the rear will help *some*. Less grip can magnify the oversteer. Yes, I know, you are on "we will make a 225-14 soon" Kumhos... Lastly, the car is twitchy regardless. I know that some of my earlier oversteer problems were because of my driving style (me agressive???) 8). If you upset the car in the middle of the corner, the back end will want to come around. Not that *I* ever spin.... 8-) Randy Chase '91 MR2 CS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 19:35:15 1999 From: Jim Wilson To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "autox list" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:34:30 -0400 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? What you get to bring your camcorder video into the computer will depend on exactly what you are trying to do with it. If all you are trying to do is get some still shots from the camcorder into the computer then a Snappy or the Iomega Buz should do pretty good. The thing that you have to be aware of is that digital video or capturing analog video into your computer where it becomes digital can cost big $$. If you want to capture longer sections of full motion video into the computer you have to look at more than just the card that you are using to capture the video. You also have to look at the processor speed of the computer, the amount of memory it has, the amount of disk space and the speed of the hard disk(s) and the capture card. The higher level capture cards will hardware compress the video stream you are capturing and save it the hard drive that way so that you can get higher quality video for less space taken on the hard drive. If you are going to look at something like the snappy I would suggest that you go with a better video card like one of the ones from Matrox or ATI that have either a built in TV tuner (ATI) or the addon video capture card (Matrox). If you really want to go nuts get a full fledged capture card from Truevision or Pinnacle Systems (Miro) - at this point you will need either SCSI hard disks or one of those Ultra33 IDE drives and some serious processor also. If you are looking for really good deals on stuff like this check out www.ebay.com in the computer section - I regurlarly see video capture hardware in there for as much as %50 less than retail. Really good bargains if you know what you are looking for. You really have to think of what you want to do with it before you go out and spend your money on a piece of equipment that will perform the way you expect it to. Check out www.dejanews.com and go to the rec.video.desktop newsgroup for good recommendations on equipment also. Jim At 02:47 PM 4/13/99 , Eric Linnhoff wrote: >Howdy all!!! > >I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set >it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might >even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy >method of attachment inside the car? > >Also, how do I get the pictures from the camcorder into my computer? >Special video cards or software? > >Thanks in advance. > >See you on course. > >Eric Linnhoff in KC >#69DS TLS #13 >'98 Neon R/T > > >"Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. >I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. >Ah, you reach down, between my legs, >ease the seat back. >She's blinding, I'm flying, >Right behind the rear-view mirror now. >Got the feeling, power steering, >Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" >------------------------------------------------------------- >"Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 20:06:46 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Steve Hoult" , "Justin Hughes" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:40:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality From: Steve Hoult >None of this has anything to do with why we are plagued with FWD cars today. >It all boils down to MONEY. It's CHEAPER to design and build a FWD car. Cheaper than a Chevette? Hard to believe. >Because of better packaging, you can also build a lighter, more fuel >efficient car then you can with RWD and raise your CAFE (Corporate Average >Fuel Economy). It was not that many years ago that the mileage champ in the USA was the Toyota Starlet, a RWD car. If you sell bunches of econoboxes you'll raise your CAFE >which in turn lets you sell more of the very profitable RWD luxo-barges and >Pony Cars. Or profitable FWD luxo-barges, of which there are also several. For a streeter, I actually like FWD. I was driving SAABs when they were simple, cheap, tough machines in the late sixties (love that torquey little Ford engine). But I must admit I have become really spoiled now that I have an AWD machine for the street. And for autocross, a very light mid-engined car is a lot of fun. And a huge RWD wagon with bloody-primitive mechanicals is handy, too. So maybe I won't be getting a FWD car any time soon. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 20:07:58 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Moore, John" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:00:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class From: Moore, John > Or if you are really worried about your S.O. enjoying themself and >wanting to come back, why not have a "Couples Combined" class where the >times are based upon the combined fastest times of the couple, then indexed >using PAX to allow for a larger field to compete reletively fairly? You want to run against the Tunnells? Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 20:28:04 1999 From: Matt Murray To: Jim Wilson Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:28:47 -0400 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? We use Pinnacle's Genie software for the still store of the backgrounds for the news "squeeze" we do at :15 and :45 in the playback (ESPN does theirs at :28/:58). It does a pretty good job, considering the price. Jim Wilson wrote: > If you really want to go nuts get a full fledged capture card from > Truevision or Pinnacle Systems (Miro) - at this point you will need either > SCSI hard disks or one of those Ultra33 IDE drives and some serious > processor also. > Jim -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 20:31:22 1999 From: Matt Murray To: Phil Ethier Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:32:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Neons- Quality FWIW, Phil, the Starlet hasn't been produced in the US since 1984 (though still made today for other markets). Phil Ethier wrote: > It was not that many years ago that the mileage champ in the USA was the > Toyota Starlet, a RWD car. > Phil Ethier -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:02:09 1999 From: "Brent DeWitt" To: "Phil Ethier" , "Moore, John" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:59:25 -0600 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Or Baileys?! (or "many others") > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Phil Ethier > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:00 PM > To: Moore, John; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Significant Other Class > > > From: Moore, John > > > > Or if you are really worried about your S.O. enjoying themself and > >wanting to come back, why not have a "Couples Combined" class where the > >times are based upon the combined fastest times of the couple, > then indexed > >using PAX to allow for a larger field to compete reletively fairly? > > > You want to run against the Tunnells? > > Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA > Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban > LOON, TCVWC, MAC > pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:13:39 1999 From: "Brent DeWitt" To: "Autox@Autox.Team.Net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:11:34 -0600 Subject: Fast pairs.... The "SO" thing got this going, but I thought it's interesting that there are a number of great "SO" pairs that come to mind. The ones that immediately come to mind are: Tunnells Baileys Whites Molakers(sp?) (Laura and Stacey) Fletchers I'm sure there are _tons_ of others, so feel free to update the list..... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:16:48 1999 From: CLAY MCLENDON To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:16:22 -0400 Subject: sorry... ignore 323 GTX post Sorry about the post about a 323 misfire. I sent it to the wrong mailing list. I'm on too many... clay mclendon From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:24:36 1999 From: washburn To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:21:12 -0500 Subject: Re: camcorder mounting recipe Eric Linnhoff wrote: > > Howdy all!!! > > I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set > it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might > even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy > method of attachment inside the car? > Here's the cheapo, but stable and quick set up: Ingredients: 1 Tripod (get one with three legs) 4 6 foot long Ratchet ties with hooks each end. I have some from Menards that are made from 1/8" thick cord that doesn't stretch. Throw all ingredients along with yourself into the back seat. Set tripod with two legs on the rear floor, and one shorter leg on the rear seat. Tie down #1: Hook to drivers seat track on floor, up around neck of tripod, back down to passenger seat track. (Resists acceleration forces) Tie down #2: Hook inside trunk, run through fold down seats up to neck of tripod. (Resists braking forces) Tie down #3: Hook from coat hook on left side to tripod neck. (Right turn forces) Tie down #4: Opposite for left turning forces. Tighten all tie down cords until they ring G flat when plucked. Mount camera, stir shifter and enjoy home movies! -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:30:05 1999 From: joshlocklear@juno.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:28:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Team SOL Count me in!! I drive a 1988 Toyota Camry 4cyl in HS. It isn't quite revolting, but it really doesn't have a prayer against any slightly sporty cars. Or maybe I just suck... so that would include me as well. I have ran the STD (slowest time of the day, NOT sexually transmitted disease) on multiple occasions, and I run a set of used road-race tires that seem as if they came off Fred Flintstone's car. I think I'm qualified, so sign me up! I love this non-competitive attitude stuff... Josh "I suck and I know it" Locklear 1988 Toyota Camry 4cyl Ohio Valley Region (and TSOL??) #24 HS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:41:43 1999 From: "Karl A. Rickert" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:36:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Team SOL scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: >Membership requirements: >Driver or car must meet one or more of the following criteria: >1. You drive in a car anyone else would be embarrassed to ride in >with you. Ever seen my Alfa Romeo? >2. You drive a car classed in such a way, that you have ever so slim >chances of winning. (you know who you are folks...) Ever driven an Alfa Romeo? >3. You're been the worst driver of the day, more than once. Did I say I drive and Alfa Romeo? >4. You've completed an entire event, without getting a time. I did drive 8 hours to stand in line at registration at Meridian! >5. Your "race" tires are so hard, they feel like hockey pucks. Ya mean there supposed to be soft? Karl A. Rickert C Stock Alfa Spider #38 Dixie Region SCCA TLS #25 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 22:10:00 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "washburn" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:01:11 -0700 Subject: Re: camcorder mounting recipe Thanks for the recipe. BTW, both of my tripods still have all three of their legs. ;^) Now to just find some tie-downs that don't have 2" straps on them. Hmm, maybe enough bungee cords (or coat hangers) and duct tape would do it. And it would be in the truest spirit of TLS. Thanks to all who gave me ideas on how to mount my camcorder. I'll probably either go with the salvage yard passenger headrest idea or the tied-down tripod idea. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 22:59:51 1999 From: Jeff Cashmore To: autox list Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:04:25 -0500 Subject: Dallas Tour pics http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/99dallas.html has pictures. Thanks to Bud, Lynn, Howard and the rest for putting on a great event. -- Jeff Cashmore 1995 Toyota Celica ST = HS (never lift) 1983 Mazda Rx7 GSL = Spec Rx7 http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/wai.html = Wisconsin Autocrossers Inc homepage http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/specrx7.html = Spec Rx7 startup info From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 23:14:40 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: alfakarl@mail.tds.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:14:31 PDT Subject: Re: Team SOL I noticed a lot of TLS members "Hinting" on going to this TSOL,, Boyz I gotz to say, LOVE it or Leave it.. Jeff TLS #7 So what's this "Seat time" everyone keeps telling me about? I wear my watch on my wrist.. Alfakarl wrote: >>Membership requirements: >>Driver or car must meet one or more of the following criteria: >>1. You drive in a car anyone else would be embarrassed to ride in >>with you. > >Ever seen my Alfa Romeo? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 05:55:15 1999 From: CLAY MCLENDON To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:54:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [323GTX] Re: Sloppy Shifter My shifter needed adjusting after my clutch was replaced and I too noticed alot of play at the ends of the cables under the shifter. I didn't know if my bushings had worn down or were non-existent. I didn't fix it yet, but I like Mark's idea. I remember at the time thinking that all it would take was the right size tubing to remove the play in the "rod ends" at the end of the cable. Thanks from a fellow cheapskate... clay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 06:35:53 1999 From: "Steve Ostrovitz" To: "Brent DeWitt" , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:36:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Fast pairs.... The NER has a few Nationals caliber spouse teams: Leverones Zoners Krysiak & Barnes Jordans >Tunnells >Baileys >Whites >Molakers(sp?) (Laura and Stacey) >Fletchers > >I'm sure there are _tons_ of others, so feel free to update the list..... > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 06:59:40 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Steve Ostrovitz , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 05:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fast pairs.... There are some in SWDiv as well... Hollises Strelnieks & McClure Wille & Mutschler I must be forgetting a few, let me know. Would be an interesting series... Craig Blome --- Steve Ostrovitz wrote: > The NER has a few Nationals caliber spouse teams: > > Leverones > Zoners > Krysiak & Barnes > Jordans > > >Tunnells > >Baileys > >Whites > >Molakers(sp?) (Laura and Stacey) > >Fletchers > > > >I'm sure there are _tons_ of others, so feel free > to update the list..... > > > > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 07:35:10 1999 From: "Burns, James B." To: autox Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:34:18 -0400 Subject: Re: SP Proposal - Part Deux I think the SP proposal is a step in the right direction, but I think they are still overlooking some cars. I like the Japanese Turbocars in BSP, but why did the MR2T get left in ASP? And the MR2SC in ASP is a joke. Some folks probably think that a small, light, supercharged car has some huge potential, but since SP doesn't allow you to raise boost you can't make much more power over stock. Perhaps they're afraid that it would be an overdog in CSP, and it doesn't fit well with the big BSP cars, so stick it in ASP? I personally don't think it would be an overdog against the CSP Hondas, but I do think it would be competitive. The Porsche 944's in ASP also seems silly to me -- they would fit better in BSP, both the Turbo and NA versions. These are just a few of the cars that still seem misclassed to me. I seem to remember the initial proposal last year having the MR2T in BSP, the MR2SC in CSP, the 944's in BSP, etc. Why did they take a step backwards from the initial proposal? Can I send my feedback to the board via e-mail, or do I have to write a letter? Brad Burns From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 07:43:04 1999 From: "Burns, James B." To: autox Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:42:21 -0400 Subject: g-Force vs. R1 Pressures for MKII MR2 I just got a brandly new set of g-Forces, 225-50-14, for my '91 MR2T. With the R1's, I was running around 26-28 psi. What's a good starting point for pressures for the g-Forces? Brad Burns From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 07:50:27 1999 From: "Michael V. Pieczarka" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "autox list" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:51:02 -0600 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? Best way, get yourself a used AV capable MAC, they do video / audio, and you will spend your time making movies rather than banging your head on the keyboard! $600 bucks and you're a movie producer. Email me back if you want and I'll get you details on specific models. later mike -----Original Message----- From: Eric Linnhoff To: autox list Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:08 AM Subject: camcorder/computer interface? >Howdy all!!! > >I've recently come into a nice used 8mm camcorder and would like to set >it up in my Neon to get some in-car autocross footage. Hey, it might >even help me to learn something. Any ideas on an inexpensive, sturdy >method of attachment inside the car? > >Also, how do I get the pictures from the camcorder into my computer? >Special video cards or software? > >Thanks in advance. > >See you on course. > >Eric Linnhoff in KC >#69DS TLS #13 >'98 Neon R/T > > >"Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. >I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. >Ah, you reach down, between my legs, >ease the seat back. >She's blinding, I'm flying, >Right behind the rear-view mirror now. >Got the feeling, power steering, >Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" >------------------------------------------------------------- >"Panama" by Van Halen > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 08:11:25 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Brent DeWitt Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:12:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Fast pairs.... Brent DeWitt wrote: > > The "SO" thing got this going, but I thought it's interesting that there are > a number of great "SO" pairs that come to mind. The ones that immediately > come to mind are: > > Tunnells > Baileys > Whites > Molakers(sp?) (Laura and Stacey) > Fletchers > > I'm sure there are _tons_ of others, so feel free to update the list..... and we cannot at all forget these dynamic duos either... Reitmiers Shorts Engstroms Babbs Vachs Yeos Allens Sheltons Elders Kellys And this isn't even taking into consideration the sibling teams or parent/child teams. No doubt there are even more... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 08:25:22 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "Eric Linnhoff" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:22:18 -0500 Subject: RE: camcorder mounting recipe > Now to just find some tie-downs that don't have 2" straps on them. > > Hmm, maybe enough bungee cords (or coat hangers) and duct tape > would do it. You don't want something that stretches that much. If you can't find the rope ones with a ratchet, you can do the same thing with a light rope. Depending on the camcorder, the tripod socket could cause a lot of bouncing in the picture. Some of the "light weight" cameras (Sony TR101, Ricoh R18H, for example) have the tripod socket mounted to the plastic case of the camera rather to a metal frame inside of it. This allows the camera to vibrate and I wouldn't trust it to hold up under the repeated bumps and stresses. I use a strap across the top of the camera to snug it down to my mounting plate (due to the design of my car (Fiero), I have attached a mounting plate to an appropriately positioned surface in the car instead of using a tripod. Most small tripods have a small soft surface around the camera mounting screw. This may also allow more vibration depending on your camera. If you have a tripod that takes quick release inserts, you can make an insert for your video camera that is solid and supports more of the base of the camera. If you want to do a little research, one of the current video or computer video magazines has a buyers guide for video capture cards in it this month. You need to decide on the quality of the capture you want. Still frames? What resolution (640x480 is approximately equal to broadcast TV)? What frame rate (TV is 30 frames per second) You will find that many of the capture cards have a maximum resolution that is at a lower frame rate (will look more jerky) than their maximum frame rate. The article (I happened to glance at it in a store yesterday) pointed out which of the 30 frame per second cards produced good output when transferred back to video tape after the video was edited and a number of other considerations. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 08:25:44 1999 From: GMAnkeny@aol.com To: autox-cm@autox.team.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:24:32 EDT Subject: DFW TOUR Thanks for a great event. The National Staff (Howard,Tasha,Sandy and Paula) did their Normal GREAT job, -THANKS. Roger Johnson put out two fun and challenging courses. The atmosphere was filled with hot competition. The competitors were all seemingly serious, but good natured. If this event didn't get you going, better check your pulse!!!!! Thanks Texas--Guy Ankeny From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 08:33:24 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autox list" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:34:21 -0500 Subject: Neon crash bolts, how tight? Howdee!!!!! I want to thank all those who've given me suggestions on how to keep my Neon steering knuckle from slipping with the crash bolts and letting all of my negative camber go away. But I didn't like one persons idea which was to sell the car. :^( Anyway, just how tight should I torque the crash bolts to? How much "can" I tighten them down to? So far I've gotten everything from 140 -180ft/lbs as suggestions. I do like the "wet paint" idea though. After 3 events I've lost almost all of my negative camber and I want it back!! I bought fresh crash bolts as the old ones may have already stretched too many times due to about 1/2 dozen torque cycles. Whatever I finally decide upon I'll let y'all know if it withstands a Phase 1 McKamey class this weekend. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 08:50:09 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:43:42 -0500 Subject: quantitative analysis has anyone ever seen/done a REAL analysis of benefits gained from strut tower braces? they are so popular among the ricers yet I wonder if most cars can generate enough grip to flex the chassis so much as to see any real benefit from the added stiffness. but maybe the real benefit is reducing the small amounts of flexing that over time will fatigue the body/fender welds. Dave Yeung Houston Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 09:00:43 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:28:31 -0400 Subject: Re: SO Class??? I'm gonna weigh in with my $0.03 CAN here, everything IMHO: 1) At the Regional/Local level, anything that increases the level of participation or in some way improves the experience of the existing participants is A Good Thing. If having a SO class, or a Novice class, or a Novice Catholic class (not a Catholic Novice class, unless you're near a nunnery) means more people come out and have fun, then more power to you. 2) ProSolo is all about marketing (at least in the Pro classes). If having Pro Ladies makes some deep-pocketed Honda exec all giddy and brings Honda money into the sport, so be it. 3) At the National/Divisional level though, I think you've sorted out all the Novices. You have Rookies of course, but half the fun of being a Rookie is the sensation of drinking from a fire hose while all these Shoes beat the living crap out of you. It's a right of passage. If you're a National level competitor, it's because you're seeking National level rewards, and you should expect to have to compete against National level drivers. A National Novice class is an oxymoron. Now I think we all agree that there's no physical difference 'twix the women and the men that handicaps the women. They can drive, in theory, at equal performance levels as the men - and this has been demonstrated to be true. Hi Shauna! So why have a Ladies class at Nationals? "It saves marriages" - Does it really? Assuming you have two highly competative people co-habitating, they will still find a way to compete. They do, after all, compete on the same track with the same car, so the times are comparable. Someone is going to end up faster at the end of the day, and both parties will have to deal with it, no matter if they are in the same class or different ones. And to be honest, I think I'd be more upset if my SO turned a slower time than me in the same car and walked off a National Champion than if my SO beat me in the same class. "It makes the logistics easier on married couples" Granted, it does. But we also see a lot of two-driver-cars running in the same class, and they seem to be able to handle it just fine thanks. Is the elimination of Ladies really _that_ much of a logistical hardship on the married teams? Now with my SO having no interest in ever competing (and I bought her a membership so that she could if she wanted to) I really don't have a dog in this fight, certainly not enough to run off and write a letter demanding the SCCA abolish the Ladies class. It really doesn't affect me. But still, I can't help but wonder if it is really needed. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 09:08:48 1999 From: Ron Madurski To: autox@autox.team.net (AutoCross List) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:08:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: West Virginia Events? I've been poking around the net for a while now and I can't seem to find any scheules for West Virginia. I am living in Clarksburg and want to do an autocross this weekend. I am pretty sure that there is an wvent in Charlseton this weekend but I can't seem to find anything to confirm it. If you are from the area please send me a note and let me know if there is an event this weekend. Thanks. -- Ron Madurski rmadursk@galstar.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 09:12:37 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'David K Yeung'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:13:42 -0500 Subject: RE: quantitative analysis My take on it is this. The flex in the chassis is enough to affect alignment..sometimes a -lot-. Since alignment matters so very much in what we do, anything you can do to lock the car in on the exact alignment you need, is good. Also, in a more flexible car, the force of the chassis flexing, then snapping around in a winding course, will slow you down a lot while you have to work extra to keep the car under control. > -----Original Message----- > From: David K Yeung [SMTP:dkyeung@juno.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 9:44 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: quantitative analysis > > has anyone ever seen/done a REAL analysis of benefits gained from strut > tower braces? they are so popular among the ricers yet I wonder if most > cars can generate enough grip to flex the chassis so much as to see any > real benefit from the added stiffness. but maybe the real benefit is > reducing the small amounts of flexing that over time will fatigue the > body/fender welds. > > Dave Yeung > Houston Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 09:26:51 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:30:36 -0400 Subject: Re: quantitative analysis >> has anyone ever seen/done a REAL analysis of benefits gained from strut >> tower braces? I agree with Jeff - anything you can do to reduce flex will help, particularly when even one degree of change in alignment can really throw off your handling. As a beneficial side effect, a rear strut tower brace can also be an excellent place to hold your battery if you move it to the trunk (don't try this in Stock class!) I don't know about other cars, but there are at least a couple of braces for mine that incorporate a battery mount into it. That's on the list of things to do. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 09:41:23 1999 From: "BPS Administrator" To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:53:55 -0500 Subject: Re: quantitative analysis They definitely keep you from beating your chassis to death. I always have them on my VW's and have noticed a bit of an improvement in steering response and stability due to it's ability to help hold the alignment. Without a strut brace and with good grip especially at higher speeds I.E. a road course, I can watch the gap between my hood an my fenders grow bigger and smaller during hard cornering. Put the brace back on and it goes away. I don't know how much they help other cars but they have helped all of my VW's quite a bit. Mike Hood Systems Administrator BPS Internet Division Tulsa, Ok 85 VW GTi 8v DSP 84 500sel Mercedes (street legal boat) > My take on it is this. > > The flex in the chassis is enough to affect alignment..sometimes a -lot-. > > Since alignment matters so very much in what we do, anything you can do to > lock the car in on the exact alignment you need, is good. > > Also, in a more flexible car, the force of the chassis flexing, then > snapping around in a winding course, will slow you down a lot while you have > to work extra to keep the car under control. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David K Yeung [SMTP:dkyeung@juno.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 9:44 AM > > To: autox@autox.team.net > > Subject: quantitative analysis > > > > has anyone ever seen/done a REAL analysis of benefits gained from strut > > tower braces? they are so popular among the ricers yet I wonder if most > > cars can generate enough grip to flex the chassis so much as to see any > > real benefit from the added stiffness. but maybe the real benefit is > > reducing the small amounts of flexing that over time will fatigue the > > body/fender welds. > > > > Dave Yeung > > Houston Region > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 09:44:52 1999 From: Whitney To: David K Yeung , autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:43:08 -0500 Subject: Re: quantitative analysis On the true Mcpherson strut/chapman strut cars, it does help (especially in older flexi chassis) as you are reinforcing the spring loading point + the upper suspension mounting point. Ad in a heim joint for adjustment, then almost all the gain is lost, as the flex will just cause the bar to pivot. The best kind are the ones bolted as solidly to the car as possible. That said, in my old DSP car, the biggest gain was in steering response - more of in issue if you run hoosiers than the stiff BFG or Kumho radials. Stan Whitney At 09:43 AM 4/14/99 -0500, David K Yeung wrote: >has anyone ever seen/done a REAL analysis of benefits gained from strut >tower braces? they are so popular among the ricers yet I wonder if most >cars can generate enough grip to flex the chassis so much as to see any >real benefit from the added stiffness. but maybe the real benefit is >reducing the small amounts of flexing that over time will fatigue the >body/fender welds. > >Dave Yeung >Houston Region > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 10:04:00 1999 From: "elizabeth banha" To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:05:07 -0400 Subject: Re: SO Class??? Hi DG(?) Here's my 2 cents.... No physical difference between the sexes?!!!!! My husband John is 6'2" and 225lbs! He's a mechanic with forearms like Popeye!!! Take a look at the national results over the years....notice that the more difficult the car is to drive -physically- the higher the gap in times between men(open) and women... The women who are running competitive times are running in the stock classes, or have power steering... My husband and I have a DSP rabbit (he has 3 NEDIV titles, I have one in DSPL in this car) and the torque steer on this beast has led many a friend to complain that it just about ripped their arms off. We used to run 30+ events a year until someone ran a red light into me 5 years ago : (trying for a big comeback this season!! : ) regards, Beth Banha From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 10:52:31 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: Brian M Kennedy Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Questions/Observations following my first National Tour event.... Brian M Kennedy wrote: > 2) I noticed some people spraying liquid on their tires between runs. > What is that? What rules are there regarding that? > For example, can I spray my tires with sticky stuff? > How about with 180'F water? How about with 180'F sticky stuff? > Is that kind of thing in the rulebook? That's just water. Sometimes these tires can overheat on a hot day with multiple drivers, so a little water right after a run brings them down to a reasonable temperature for the next run. > 4) How about that optional slalom on Saturday? Which way was better? > Most people started on the left, only a few on the right -- but > several of those few won their classes. Starting on the right > made the slalom one cone longer and made the left after the > slalom much tighter. However, it was the shorter path and one > less braking zone. Starting on the left allowed you to carry > your speed longer before braking to start the slalom, and allowed > you a better line for the following left -- but you still had to > brake to set up for the left. Anyone care to analyze their choice > now with hindsight? In hindsight, I shoulda gone on the right on Saturday. After Friday night's walks, I was fully planning to go right. But then while I was trying to fall asleep and replaying the course in my mind, I couldn't make going right seem even remotely smooth, it just felt awful. So, come Saturday morning, left was the plan. But in retrospect, I think right would have been faster (that conclusion is drawn mostly from how fast those who went right managed to go). But it's rare to have a truly optional slalom like that. I'll bet it worked out to about 50% drivers went left, 50% went right ... > 5) How about that optional slalom on Sunday? (The same optional > slalom, but now in reverse.) In this case, most people switched > the side of the slalom they attacked. Is that because they > changed their mind based on Saturday? Or because the differences > of the right entry before the slalom or the short straight into > the finish at the end of the slalom?? Anyone care to analyze > their choice now with hindsight? It wasn't quite the same -- one cone was removed! If you went right, it was just a brake stab before the right hander, then flat out to the finish. Left was longer and would have required more finesse to maintain max speed. > 8) WX-Mozilla-Status: 0009ent about the Texas NT vs. most others? > Any peculiarities? Except for not getting done Saturday until after 7pm (I suppose the problem was simply that there was too much time between cars), I thought it was a very typical National Tour. Great fun, great competitors, great party! I think I must may go back to Texas for another one :-) Even though I coned myself out of a trophy ... Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 11:28:13 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: jss@marimba.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:23:39 EDT Subject: Re: Questions/Observations following my first National Tour In a message dated 4/14/99 11:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time, jss@marimba.com writes: > > In hindsight, I shoulda gone on the right on Saturday. After Friday > night's walks, I was fully planning to go right. But then while I was > trying to fall asleep and replaying the course in my mind, I couldn't > make going right seem even remotely smooth, it just felt awful. So, > come Saturday morning, left was the plan. But in retrospect, I think > right would have been faster (that conclusion is drawn mostly from how > fast those who went right managed to go). I'll have to totally disagree with my codriver for the event on this one. I was working in full view of Saturday's optional starting slalom. Everyone who went to the right gave up to much on the entry and then got pinched off on the left turn following the exit and gave up too much speed again. Those who went to the left were smoother and faster in and out. The 2.8 Z3 coupe would have lost too much on both ends, at least on the tires we used for that day. Those I know of who tried both directions chose the left for their final run. IMO, anyone who went fast on the right would have gone even faster on the left. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 11:29:01 1999 From: Charles Spitzer To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:25:44 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class well, let me put on my other hat, or at least my wetsuit. my wife and i race catamaran sailboats. racing is broken down into a, b, c, and novice fleets. you start in novice, and after 1 year, or winning a series (usually some number of races), you graduate to c fleet. you then remain in a fleet until you win a series, and then get bumped up one fleet. you remain in your fleet, basically forever, until you get good enough to beat the ones in your fleet. if you don't sail for a year, you go down 1 fleet, but never get back into novice once you leave it. you are also given the option of requesting bumping yourself up one or more fleet, but this is up to the decision of the rest of the people in the fleet. this is really necessary as an inexperienced boater could easily get hurt or die on some ocean races. i'm not sure this would be applicable to autox. seems to me this would solve a lot of problems i see in the present autox scheme; allowing one to race against their peers rather than being thrown from novice into a class where they may not do well for years, if ever. this would also prevent someone from being totally disheartened and leaving the sport. regards, charlie phx, az >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:16:27 -0500 >Subject: Re: Significant Other Class >From: greg@ThumbsUpRacing.com >To: autox@autox.team.net > >As best as I can recall, the idea of competing against others of similar >talent/experience/native ability/determination/car preparation/RESULTS was >postulated by one Ben Thatcher (aka "The SCCA Anti-Christ", a title FAR from >the truth) in a publication known as North American Pylon a couple of >years ago. I must admit that Ben presented an eloquent case for classing >drivers based on results. If I remember correctly, he proposed either three >or five levels where drivers competed against each other based on the >results of prior competition. I thought this was brilliant "out of the box" >thinking. He even had a concept that took into account drivers that >sandbagged in order to be classed at a lower level. > >I think that concept is exactly what Katie (who by the way is my favorite >writer, Hemmingway be damned) is trying to accomplish. Her idea may have >been somewhat "tounge in cheek" at first, but wouldn't it be great to see >what some "out of the box" thinking could do for this sport? -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 11:48:20 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Charles Spitzer" , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:52:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class >seems to me this would solve a lot of problems i see in the present autox >scheme; allowing one to race against their peers rather than being thrown >from novice into a class where they may not do well for years, if ever. >this would also prevent someone from being totally disheartened and leaving >the sport. Interesting suggestion - I see plenty of merit in it. Unfortunately, I also doubt that it'll happen. Look at our current class system, based on just the car and its preparation level. That in itself is so complicated that many would probably rebel at even more classes on top of it - particularly those whose regions have few enough entrants in each class as it is now. Something like what you suggest, which has loads of merit and I personally like a lot, would go quite far toward turning the class system into the DSP/C/novice/ladies/Buddhist thing we've been joking about. :) Although the driver is most of the equation, the car is important too, and it would be foolish to ditch or completely revise the system we have now that works quite fairly for that purpose. Do we really want to use PAX to adjust every time for every driver in every car at every event in a class system based solely on driver skill? It would be possble, but I doubt we would. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 11:51:09 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:51:50 -0600 Subject: Re: Team SOL invite Scott; You mean I get a whole Classification all to my self? Boy, that is either no respect to the MAX or too much respect!!! I have autocrossed a 91 Dodge Shadow ES 2door Turbo 5 speed since 1992. When I came back from Operation Joint Endeavor {yes they even activated prehistoric Med Repair guys} in May 97, I entered the autocross that was that first weekend at the insistence of many. I had not changed oil in it since before Summer 96. So I did not want to drive it; also, it had 140K miles with original mechanicals but new tires in Feb 96. I listened real hard for noises, not hearing any, on the second run I pressed a little harder. WOW, beat everyone on the first course {Pax'd time} and got fourth on the second course. Results showed me in first O.A. for the day? I run HS on street tires, BFG Touring Radial 4's in stock size, etc.. What an unusual day. I am normally mid pack, with an occasional class win, and never an overall win. I have always enjoyed running none competitive type of vehicles. Much more challenging just to get around the course without hitting pylons, let alone fast. My previous car to the Shadow was a 91 Dodge Caravan {company car, ya know}. We began doing auto crossing in 1970. Yes, nineteen seventy. In a 70 Hornet Coupe with 199 CID 6 cyl and 3 speed on the column, pure stock. That is the one that got 2nd in 43 cars {counting mine} and wound up with a postcard of a Hornet STS Coupe in a 5 x 7 frame. They did not do that to anyone again, thank goodness. The Hornet and I won all the events in B Sedan the rest of the year and the next year. I cammed it, 4 barreled it, sway barred it, etc. and owned the prepared class then in Wichita, Kansas the next year. We {Charlotte, my super significant other {spouse}} and I were part of the gang that helped get the Nationals organized into the early runoffs in Kansas. I was scoring chief on some of the courses in those early days. Being truly eligible for SOL, I never felt competent to enter the Nationals. Bruce Sargent {R14317} SCCA SSS Past National Rally Team Navigator Charlotte Sargent {R14318} SCCA Scoring Past National Rally Team Driver Both RMVR Members and workers. I am retiring from corners for 99 due to my knees deciding I did not need to walk, let alone run, after OJE & PT. Planning on doing Tech again at races for RMVR and SCCA if they will let me. Charlotte will do Scoring for both, too. Oh, I am President of Central Wyoming Auto Club, which is affiliated with Colorado Region, this year. Should someone be interested in Casper, Wyoming events, e-mail me and I shall return your e-mail with our schedule. We have 13 auto crosses beginning with April 24 at the Natrona County School District #1 HQ Parking Lot. Ist car out at 10:30, drivers meeting at 9:30, setup at 7:30 a.m.. Our address is: 612 E. 12th St Casper, Wyoming 82601-3821 307-237-5845 H fax 6014 Retirement is this year!!!! With complete retirement in 2001, from work, I mean. Then we can start really going places. Sorry, that this was not a quick note. I got gabby. -----Original Message----- From: scott_phelps@mail.gdt1.com To: bruces@caspers.net Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Team SOL > > If you want #6, it's yours! Welcome aboard, send me a quick note > with your full name and car, and what class you're in..... > > > Scott > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 12:06:19 1999 From: Ghsharp@aol.com To: TeamZ3@aol.com, jss@marimba.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:00:40 EDT Subject: Re: Questions/Observations following my first National Tourevent.... In a message dated 4/14/99 12:31:33 PM EST, TeamZ3@aol.com writes: >I'll have to totally disagree with my codriver for the event on this one. I >was working in full view of Saturday's optional starting slalom. Everyone >who went to the right gave up to much on the entry and then got pinched off >on the left turn following the exit and gave up too much speed again. Those >who went to the left were smoother and faster in and out. The 2.8 Z3 coupe >would have lost too much on both ends, at least on the tires we used for that >day. Those I know of who tried both directions chose the left for their >final run. > >IMO, anyone who went fast on the right would have gone even faster on the >left. Perhaps, but you have to take into account that starting on the right shortened the distance you drove through the slalom itself at both ends, and that the left turn at the end of the slalom led into another turn, not a straight. Absent any section times, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on which way was faster through that particular part of the course. And speaking of Roger's course(s), I'll have to agree with everyone else who has praised them as being 2 of the best courses I've seen lately. And a big thank you to everyone in Texas Region who had a hand in putting on this event, it really was great. GH Sharp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 12:42:09 1999 From: Cliff Loh To: Autox List Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:37:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class "Phil Ethier" >> Or if you are really worried about your S.O. enjoying themself and >>wanting to come back, why not have a "Couples Combined" class where the >>times are based upon the combined fastest times of the couple, then indexed >>using PAX to allow for a larger field to compete reletively fairly? > > >You want to run against the Tunnells? Hmmm, kinda makes you wonder just who the fastest couple in autocrossing is. Tunnells? Babbs? Reitmeirs? Kozlaks?... It'd be worth the price of admission to find out though. Group them all (random draw) in double elimination. Winning couple moves on to A Group's next round and the losing couple moves on to B Group's next round. If you lose in B you're out. Lose in A, you get moved to B Group and continue until you lose. Finale will pit the respective winners of the A group vs B Group. -c. --------------------------------------------------- Cliff Loh, Vancouver, B.C. CANADA "I started out with nothing & still have most of it left." vcmc001@ibm.net, h:604.597.6784 c:604.202.8724 --------------------------------------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:00:06 1999 From: "James Rogerson" To: "'Autox'" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:58:36 -0500 Subject: CRX distributor My son called and said his CRX si is acting "funny." It will rev smoothly to 3k then skips a beat (shuts off) then catches and pulls up to red line. On the way down it does the same thing with an accompaning backfire. Engine Check Light came on. Code on the blinks is "distributor fault". Didn't I see a previous post on the COST of the distributor on this car? Anyone have a solution. It doesn't have to be stock. TIA James Rogerson "Nails are glue, hypothetically speaking" - Earl Fertile "Men that like golf are unhappy at home and are unable to have meaningful relationships with women" - Joseph Heller TLS #18; Old Farts #86 [Too many cars to list] From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:03:34 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "Team.Net" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:01:29 -0500 Subject: DFW National Tour Course Maps? Any chance of someone scanning those wonderful courses everyone is praising and posting them for us that didn't make the trip? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:21:54 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Justin Hughes , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:20:01 -0700 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Well, I've been joking awhile, but I just want to say something almost kind of serious, just for a second. First of all, I think the S.O. name would have to change, because it just occurred to me that, hello, my co-driver Sandy Pessoney ran in BSL, while I ran in BS Open in Dallas. And doh, it just dawned on me that given my little soapbox rants, someone might think she is my s.o. Um, hello, uh, NO? That being said, I really think that for the long term success of Solo II, we need to keep things, organizationally wise, as simple as possible. Of course, what I think really means SQUAT. But seriously, I think Solo II's problem, if you can call it a problem, is that all the rulesmakers are autocrossers themselves. Why is this a problem? Because it's almost impossible to take your own ego and biases out of your decision making. And I think a second problem, or should I say reality, of autocross is that we all are own coaches. This is a problem because it's human nature to be far more critical of ourselves than necessary. If we were better self-coaches, we could look at our failures and success more more objectively, and we could actually find VALUE in finishing 14th or 23rd or whatever. Because really, what ANY sport is about is your own personal improvement. But because we autocrossers also have the power invent all of our own rules, we tend to want rules to make us FEEL better. That's what I keep reading on this list, anyway. And I hear it all the time in random conversations. We're not happy with our driving, so we want the rules to be set up to MOTIVATE us. And I just don't think that's SCCA's or the SEB's job. I think their job is to make the rules FAIR. And sometimes, what's fair SUCKS! So, in short, if you want to feel good about yourself, you're kind of ON YOUR OWN. Don't change the rules to give yourself a better self esteem! later, Katie From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:30:56 1999 From: eharleq@selway.umt.edu To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 01:34:51 -0600 Subject: Re: quantitative analysis All, I believe that it really takes a total package analysis for flex. The mac strut top bushings in my 323 GTX did all of the flexing before the chassis would flex. The when I changed classes and upgraded the bushings to plates, the whole car would flex F-R and diagonally. It was so flexy that doors wouldn't open/shut when the car was jacked up. This is all with the factory 30% stiffer floor pan. I can't imagine how flexy the stock 323 was. Erik From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:39:25 1999 From: Matt Murray To: "Kelly, Katie" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:40:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > it just dawned on me that given my little > soapbox rants, someone might think she is my s.o. Um, hello, uh, NO? As Jerry Seinfeld would say: "Not that there is anything wrong with that..." -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:49:10 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 15:46:20 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Significant Other Class Author: "Kelly Katie" wrote: >> Don't change the rules to give yourself a better self esteem! Hey ! I'll take self esteem any way I can get it! Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP Team SOL #1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:53:22 1999 From: "Ayer, John K" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:52:13 -0700 Subject: And now for something completely different... If that's your real name, you can't help butt join :) >>From: Jason Suknot >>Subject: Subject: TLS member in a Crisis! >> >>I have given some thought to seeking TLS membership myself... ------------------------------ >>Sorry about the post about a 323 misfire. I sent it to the wrong mailing >>list. I'm on too many... >>clay mclendon Don't apologize Clay, it makes a nice change, talking about cars... :) Kimball Ayer Fiat X1/9 DSP#19 Ask ME about the latest SP rape-posal, If you dare... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 14:03:08 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autox list" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:04:24 -0500 Subject: SP shakeup Howdy all. Since I have yet to receive my Sports Car mag, what's the big shakeup in SP? Is it more rules changes (anti-de-embolizer type rules) or car class changes? See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 14:26:27 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:21:34 -0500 Subject: Course Maps Texas Tour I have scanned the course maps for anyone who wants them. Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 14:34:18 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:33:17 -0500 Subject: Re: SP shakeup Eric Linnhoff wrote: > > Howdy all. > > Since I have yet to receive my Sports Car mag, what's the big shakeup in > SP? Is it more rules changes (anti-de-embolizer type rules) or car > class changes? Car class changes. Roughly speaking, they're breaking up CSP into two classes and making BSP into a class for fast but large sportscars (rather than just a Corvette class). The small, fast CSP'ers remain in CSP -- the slower ones in CSP go in a new DSP -- the current DSP becomes ESP and the current ESP becomes FSP. A few of the faster but larger CSP cars (E36 M3, Porsche 928/968, non-turbo 280ZX/300ZX) are being moved to BSP as are some of the slower and larger ASP cars (Shelby Cobra 289, Mitsu 3000GT turbo, and turbo 280ZX/300ZX). Also the Supra Turbo (was ESP?) was put in BSP. There were also various other jugglings of uncompetitive cars that all seemed reasonable. Even though my car, E36 M3, is being moved to a slightly faster class, I think the changes are very good. I really have very little in common with most of my current competitors (tiny CRX's, RX-3's, and RX-7's) -- and I often feel a bit cheated when I am beaten by them as they attack courses completely different than I can. Even though BSP is faster than CSP, I'll enjoy being beaten by Corvettes, 300ZX's, Porsche 968's, and such larger sportscars much better. One question: Why doesn't the 99 Porsche 911 show up? Surely over 1000 have been sold. And then where's the Porsche Boxster? Or is nobody willing to Street Prepare those cars?? ;^) Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 14:34:31 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [BOUNCE autox@Autox.Team.Net: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 9] Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:13:04 -0500 From: "Steve Hoult" Subject: MR2 SC questions I'd like to thank those that sent real answers to the three questions I asked. It showed the helpful spirit inherit in SCCA Solo II racing. Most responded with the "Buy the rule book" line which doesn't do much good on race morning. Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 14:35:52 1999 From: Craig Blome To: "Kelly, Katie" , Justin Hughes , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: Significant Other Class --- "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > First of all, I think the S.O. name would have to > change, because it just > occurred to me that, hello, my co-driver Sandy > Pessoney ran in BSL, while I > ran in BS Open in Dallas. And doh, it just dawned on > me that given my little > soapbox rants, someone might think she is my s.o. > Um, hello, uh, NO? > Bwahahaha. Too late. Did you really think we would let truth get in the way of a good rumor? :-) > That being said, I really think that for the long > term success of Solo II, > we need to keep things, organizationally wise, as > simple as possible. > Agreed. > Of course, what I think really means SQUAT. > Not agreed. Especially since you have such a talent for writing...being able to convince others amplifies the meaning of what you think. IMHO, of course. > But seriously, I think Solo II's problem, if you can > call it a problem, is > that all the rulesmakers are autocrossers > themselves. > Is that a problem? It seems to work fine in lots of other sports. So far as ego and biases go, seems like the SEB and advisory committees do a decent job of keeping that out of the decision making process. At least I can't name an occasion when they didn't. > > And I think a second problem, or should I say > reality, of autocross is that > we all are own coaches. Hmm...substitute the word "life" for "autocross" in the above sentence and it's still valid. Kinda makes you think, eh? > > And I just don't think that's SCCA's or > the SEB's job. I think their job is to make the > rules FAIR. > I thought, though, that the original point was that it is not _fair_ to force one's spouse or SO to be thrown to the wolves with serious competitors, or at least to have a parallel class, usually not as fast as open, and make it open to women only. (Yes, I remember some of the best drivers run Ladies class...but look at the standings at Topeka, for whatever reason most of the ladies' classes aren't as fast as open. Don't ask me why.) Should the rules attempt to redress this imbalance? I don't have an answer, but it's worth trying to come up with one. Ramble mode off, Craig Blome From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 14:40:11 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:43:56 -0400 Subject: Intake mods, what class? OK, this time I actually have a serious question. I have an idea in my head for rerouting my intake system before the air filter (stock in the stock airbox). Obviously this would bump me out of stock class, but where would I land? Basically I'd just add some ducting to draw air from a cooler area such as under the car or from the front grill. No air cooling type of mechanism like an Iceman - just drawing from a different area. Oh, and normal aspiration - no turbo. I've been reading over the SP rules, but I can't figure out if a mod like this is legal in SP or not. Some far more extensive mods than what I have in mind are legal for SP, but I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything. If a change like this will land me in modified I doubt I'll want to do it. :) - Justin '83 BMW 320i HS (maybe DSP soon?) TSOL #4 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 14:54:21 1999 From: John Lieberman To: Mike McClure Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:57:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Texas National Tour and a big THANK YOU! I couldn't agree with you more, Mike! It was a fabulous event. Roger really outdid himself on the course design. I know how hard Bud and Lynn and Marty worked to put it all together and the results really showed. Kevin and the other Road Racing guys and gals pitched in to run the grid both days. Phil, Kurt, Donaleigh, Kei, Wally, and so many others put in many long hours to pull it off. My hat's off to all of you and the dozens of others that I haven't named!!! Even though my car kept breaking, and even though I got thoroughly sunburned riding my little bicycle around all weekend playing Safety Steward, I had an absolute blast! All of the TMS people with whom I talked were thoroughly impressed...especially the emergency response crew. They just couldn't believe the level of professionalism that went into running the event, the skill level of the drivers, the quality of the cars, and the friendliness of the competitors. At one point I even saw them puting SCCA Solo-2 event stickers on their response truck!!! IMHO, when you get NASCAR people praising an SCCA Solo-2 event, you've arrived! My thanks, too, to everybody who pitched in to help when the Mini broke Saturday and everybody else who offered to help but realized there just wasn't room for any more heads or hands underneath that little bitty bonnet. I must have had 40 or 50 people ask what the problem was, offer advice on fixing it, and/or offer their assistance if I needed it. What a great bunch of folks to be associated with!!!! 8<{) John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman Mike McClure wrote: > > First I just have to say, WOW, what a great event! If you didn't make > it to this event you will definately want to put it on your calenders > for next year (if that works out). Things seemed to go very smoothly > considering there were around 270 competitors. The courses were some of > the best I have ever seen and the competition was fierce. The party in > the garage area of the Speedway was great, especially since we could see > and hear the stock cars most of the night! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:03:04 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: Justin Hughes Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:01:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Intake mods, what class? Justin Hughes wrote: > > OK, this time I actually have a serious question. I have an idea in my head > for rerouting my intake system before the air filter (stock in the stock > airbox). Obviously this would bump me out of stock class, but where would I > land? Basically I'd just add some ducting to draw air from a cooler area > such as under the car or from the front grill. No air cooling type of > mechanism like an Iceman - just drawing from a different area. Oh, and > normal aspiration - no turbo. I've been reading over the SP rules, but I > can't figure out if a mod like this is legal in SP or not. You can route the air to your airbox from anywhere you want, BUT you cannot cut holes in other parts or remove other parts to do it. So, for example, you can extend a tube from the front of the airbox to behind the foglamps, BUT you cannot remove the foglamps. You can route the tube down to the brake duct, BUT you cannot cut a hole into the brake duct (or use a Euro-part with such a hole, as is often done illegally). Make sense? Brian 98 M3/4 CSP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:04:50 1999 From: GolfSharro@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:02:47 EDT Subject: Ohio to Peru Does any one know about how long it takes to drive from the Columbus Ohio airport to the Pro Solo site in Peru, Indiana? Can you fly into Ohio in the morning and be in Peru by late afternoon? I'm trying to make some plane reservations and I don't know if I should try for Thurs. night or Friday morning. Thanks, Sharron Shields From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:06:51 1999 From: "Wally Strzelec" To: "team.net" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:08:05 -0500 Subject: Fw: DFW National Tour Course Maps? FYI: From: Johnson, Roger H Subject: RE: DFW National Tour Course Maps? > They will be available tomorrow AM at: > > http://www.ghgcorp.com/cmjfsl/ntmaps.html > <<...>> > (281) 336-4569 > roger.johnson@sw.boeing.com > > > Never knock on Death's door; > > ring the doorbell and run... > > (he hates that) > > -Wally From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:27:36 1999 From: "Steven N. Burkett" To: GolfSharro@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:27:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Ohio to Peru On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 GolfSharro@aol.com wrote: > Does any one know about how long it takes to drive from the Columbus Ohio > airport to the Pro Solo site in Peru, Indiana? > Can you fly into Ohio in the morning and be in Peru by late afternoon? > I'm trying to make some plane reservations and I don't know if I should try > for Thurs. night or Friday morning. It shouldn't take more than 4 hours. But it would be much quicker to fly into Indianapolis, Chicago, or Dayton, in that order... ... oh, I get it, your car is in Columbus. Yeah, 4 hours, with one stop, driving the speed limit, more or less. Steven From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:30:43 1999 From: Sandy Pessoney To: Matt Murray Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:30:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Significant Other Class Matt Murray wrote: > > "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > > it just dawned on me that given my little > > soapbox rants, someone might think she is my s.o. Um, hello, uh, NO? > > As Jerry Seinfeld would say: > "Not that there is anything wrong with that..." As Katie's non-significant other... I mean co-driver who she doesn't find attractive... I mean cosmic twin who just loans her a car whenever she flies into a town where I'm racing, I think there IS something wrong if people think that... :) :) -Sandy Pessoney Team "Dating a Non-Racer" Team "I Think I'll Just Go Back to Racing Open Class" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:34:43 1999 From: "Wally Strzelec" To: "team.net" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:35:59 -0500 Subject: Fw: DFW National Tour Course Maps? FYI: From: Johnson, Roger H Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 4:22 PM Subject: RE: DFW National Tour Course Maps? > Wally: > > I lied. They are at the following URL now!! > > http://www.ghgcorp.com/cmjfsl/ntmaps.html > > later > <<...>> > (281) 336-4569 > roger.johnson@sw.boeing.com > > > Never knock on Death's door; > > ring the doorbell and run... > > (he hates that) > > -Wally From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:39:53 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: Brian M Kennedy Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:34:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Intake mods, what class? What class are you referring to Brian? Stock? I hope not. If it is SP, isn't the whole induction system free? AB You can route the air to your airbox from anywhere you want, BUT you cannot cut holes in other parts or remove other parts to do it. So, for example, you can extend a tube from the front of the airbox to behind the foglamps, BUT you cannot remove the foglamps. You can route the tube down to the brake duct, BUT you cannot cut a hole into the brake duct (or use a Euro-part with such a hole, as is often done illegally). Make sense? Brian 98 M3/4 CSP Justin Hughes wrote: > > OK, this time I actually have a serious question. I have an idea in my head > for rerouting my intake system before the air filter (stock in the stock > airbox). Obviously this would bump me out of stock class, but where would I > land? Basically I'd just add some ducting to draw air from a cooler area > such as under the car or from the front grill. No air cooling type of > mechanism like an Iceman - just drawing from a different area. Oh, and > normal aspiration - no turbo. I've been reading over the SP rules, but I > can't figure out if a mod like this is legal in SP or not. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:42:44 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Sandy Pessoney , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:41:47 -0700 Subject: RE: Significant Other Class Sandy Pessoney writes... >As Katie's non-significant other... I mean co-driver who she doesn't >find attractive... >I mean cosmic twin who just loans her a car whenever she flies into a >town where I'm >racing, I think there IS something wrong if people think that... :) :) Yes, thank you, Miss Sandy! I concur. I mean, why ELSE would I be even running Open! Some of those boys are CUTE! Katie Kelly Team "Glad Sandy Has a Boyfriend - Gives Me More Fun in BS!" Katie Kelly Technical Publications SPSS Bay Area (510)412-2812 mailto:katiek@spss.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy Pessoney [SMTP:ra5664@email.sps.mot.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 2:30 PM > To: Matt Murray > Cc: Kelly, Katie; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Significant Other Class > > Matt Murray wrote: > > > > "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > > > > > it just dawned on me that given my little > > > soapbox rants, someone might think she is my s.o. Um, hello, uh, NO? > > > > As Jerry Seinfeld would say: > > "Not that there is anything wrong with that..." > > As Katie's non-significant other... I mean co-driver who she doesn't > find attractive... > I mean cosmic twin who just loans her a car whenever she flies into a > town where I'm > racing, I think there IS something wrong if people think that... :) :) > > -Sandy Pessoney > Team "Dating a Non-Racer" > Team "I Think I'll Just Go Back to Racing Open Class" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:45:31 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: GolfSharro@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:38:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Ohio to Peru Is there a reason you aren't flying into Ft Wayne of Indianapolis? I'm sure there is. Anyway, looks like about 250 miles (Rte 70 to Rte 31). AB GolfSharro@aol.com on 04/14/99 02:02:47 PM Please respond to GolfSharro@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net cc: (bcc: Andrew Bettencourt/FIELD SALES/Kingston) Subject: Ohio to Peru Does any one know about how long it takes to drive from the Columbus Ohio airport to the Pro Solo site in Peru, Indiana? Can you fly into Ohio in the morning and be in Peru by late afternoon? I'm trying to make some plane reservations and I don't know if I should try for Thurs. night or Friday morning. Thanks, Sharron Shields From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:51:16 1999 From: John Lieberman To: Jeff Cashmore Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:54:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Dallas Tour pics Thanks for the great Grid shot of the Mini, Jeff. It wasn't duct tape that saved the day this time. I was just some serious wrenching. I don't think I've ever tightened the lock nuts on the valve adjusters that tight before! And I've been running this same head, without an ounce of trouble, for a year and a half!!! My thanks to David "Boo Boo" Fogleman in the Bug Eyed Sprite next to me in grid for helping me re-set the valve lash after #s 6 & 8 worked loose on Saturday's first run. Unfortunately, #8 came loose again on my third run. Thank goodness everything stayed together on Sunday, but I was afraid to really put my foot into it for fear of breaking something loose again and seriously hurting the motor!!! 8<{( John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman Jeff Cashmore wrote: > > http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/99dallas.html has pictures. Thanks to > Bud, Lynn, Howard and the rest for putting on a great event. > -- > Jeff Cashmore > 1995 Toyota Celica ST = HS (never lift) > 1983 Mazda Rx7 GSL = Spec Rx7 > http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/wai.html = Wisconsin Autocrossers Inc > homepage > http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/specrx7.html = Spec Rx7 startup info From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 16:41:51 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: "Justin Hughes" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:42:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Team SOL invite Justin; You'll never believe what I hope to make my next 'crosser!!! 2000 Chrysler PT Cruiser. Based on the 2000 Neon but shorter and taller with more interior space than a Ford Taurus!! Great for my larger than average body. {6'5"/250 lbs.} I used to race go karts in the 50's and early 60's, so the more upright seating position ought to feel comfortable, eh? -----Original Message----- From: Justin Hughes To: Bruce Sargent Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Team SOL invite >That Shadow is definitely an excellent Team SOL car. Who wants to be seen >in a Shadow??? Little do they know what its potential is. I do - a friend >of mine has an ES Turbo 5-speed like yours, and he's shown me what it can >do. It'll leave my old BMW in the dust in a heartbeat. :) But I think it's >much more fun to drive a slow car fast than to have to drive a fast car >slow. > > - Justin > TSOL #4 :) > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 17:13:18 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: bruces@caspers.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:12:48 CDT Subject: PT Cruiser Please tell me the Cruiser is NOT going to be a good autocrosser. I have two cars already, and thats one too many according to the wife, but I want the Cruiser baaaad. Remember Katie's crush on the New Beetle? Deja vu, baby! If this thing has a chance in hell of being competitive, I'll be having some sleepless nights pondering the fate of my neon... -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 17:17:12 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Brian M Kennedy" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:08:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Intake mods, what class? >You can route the air to your airbox from anywhere you want, BUT you cannot >cut holes in other parts or remove other parts to do it. So, for example, >you can extend a tube from the front of the airbox to behind the foglamps, >BUT you cannot remove the foglamps. You can route the tube down to the >brake duct, BUT you cannot cut a hole into the brake duct (or use a Euro-part >with such a hole, as is often done illegally). > >Make sense? Perfect sense. Thanks for that additional info. There's a hole in the front of the engine compartment that would be an excellent inlet if I could only cut it a little bigger, and if you hadn't mentioned that I would've and had an illegal intake. Now I think I'll just drop it straight down the engine compartment to keep it legal. Just have to make sure it's short enough so it doesn't start sucking water from puddles! - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 17:55:25 1999 From: Brian Porter To: Jim Wilson , "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:54:55 -0400 Subject: Re: camcorder/computer interface? >are going to look at something like the snappy I would suggest that you go >with a better video card like one of the ones from Matrox or ATI that have >either a built in TV tuner (ATI) or the addon video capture card (Matrox). >If you really want to go nuts get a full fledged capture card from >Truevision or Pinnacle Systems (Miro) - at this point you will need either >SCSI hard disks or one of those Ultra33 IDE drives and some serious >processor also. I use a Happauge WinTV card (cheap mono version), a P233 (64Mb RAM) which work acceptibly for capturing video for personal use. The WinTV card (and it's STB counterpart) are around $50 and occupy a PCI slot. It comes with so-so software for editing and capture. I would recommend a newer solution like the Matrox and daughter card but have no experience with them. Disk space can be an issue. Capturing one minute of video at 640x480 res at 24k color-depth can approach 50Mb of space. If CPU peformance is lacking, run the system as "light" as possible (i.e. no realtime video display during capture, no compression) during a capture session and clean things up later. My P233 had best results with this (no dropped frames) My dual PPRO/RAID system could capture, compress and bake a cake simultaneously. Compression works great for trimming captures down consdierably but I've not done this for a while (last season).. If I remembered correctly, I could get the files down to under 4Mb in size w/ 160x120 res., 8-bit audio and 15fps using Intel's Indeo 4.3? Codec. I felt this was the best compromise to quality/size. At the time, I was thinking of putting runs on a website and played with Codecs a bit to determine a) which was the most popular b) most efficient. I think the 4.3 codec won but I can't remember.. :) Anyway, hope this helped.. -Brian '95 Miata R -Brian porterb@mediaone.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 18:04:54 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:03:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Intake mods, what class? Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com wrote: > > What class are you referring to Brian? Stock? I hope not. Nope. SP, as Justin asked about SP. > If it is SP, > isn't the whole induction system free? Essentially, yes; but that doesn't give you permission to cut holes elsewhere in order to accomodate your desired induction system. You can add whatever you want as long as you don't have to make other illegal mods to do it. Right? Brian > Justin Hughes wrote: > > > > ... I've been reading over the SP rules, but I > > can't figure out if a mod like this is legal in SP or not. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 18:22:51 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "Justin Hughes" , "autox" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:20:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Intake mods, what class? I reread the SP part myself, and I can see why you're confused. Unfortunately I can't tell, either! :) Reading that section, I see we turboguys can run water to air intercoolers now. Cool (you should pardon the pun)!! Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII-1C: ESPfor now+IS2 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0-3J: ST+IS3 Team S.O.L. Member #2 -----Original Message----- From: Justin Hughes To: autox Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 1:40 PM Subject: Intake mods, what class? >OK, this time I actually have a serious question. I have an idea in my head >for rerouting my intake system before the air filter (stock in the stock >airbox). Obviously this would bump me out of stock class, but where would I >land? Basically I'd just add some ducting to draw air from a cooler area >such as under the car or from the front grill. No air cooling type of >mechanism like an Iceman - just drawing from a different area. Oh, and >normal aspiration - no turbo. I've been reading over the SP rules, but I >can't figure out if a mod like this is legal in SP or not. Some far more >extensive mods than what I have in mind are legal for SP, but I know that >doesn't necessarily mean anything. If a change like this will land me in >modified I doubt I'll want to do it. :) > > - Justin > '83 BMW 320i HS (maybe DSP soon?) > TSOL #4 > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 18:25:03 1999 From: "Brad Holliday" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:24:33 PDT Subject: TMS pictures? Does anybody know who took the pictures of the laps around the Texas Motor Speedway at the National Tour event or how to order them now? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 18:30:38 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: David K Yeung Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:28:23 -0700 Subject: Re: quantitative analysis It's certainly not quntitative, but I noticed an immediate quicker turn- in feel when I installed them on my 97 Z24 Cavalier...Gary McDaniel David K Yeung wrote: > > has anyone ever seen/done a REAL analysis of benefits gained from strut > tower braces? they are so popular among the ricers yet I wonder if most > cars can generate enough grip to flex the chassis so much as to see any > real benefit from the added stiffness. but maybe the real benefit is > reducing the small amounts of flexing that over time will fatigue the > body/fender welds. > > Dave Yeung > Houston Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 18:41:47 1999 From: Eric Moon To: Gary McDaniel , David K Yeung Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:37:15 -0400 Subject: Re: quantitative analysis I installed them on my '95 Eclipse and also noticed quicker turn-in as well as a reduction in 'wandering' over irregularities in the pavement. Again, subjective, not quantitative. Eric Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com Eric Moon: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 18:45:07 1999 From: "Su Brude" To: "Team.net" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:43:26 -0600 Subject: Texas NT & the SO class I can lurk no longer. As most of you know that where at the NT I was very vocally challenged from a nasty case of larengides (sp?). For some reason I thought that should keep me from saying what I needed to say. As a Texas Region member, I would also like to thank Bud, Lynn & Marty for all of there hard work. That event was one of the most enjoyable that I have ever attended. Even though I should have been home in bed, I am glad that my common sense seems to always plays second fiddle to my love of autox because it was definitely an event not to miss. I would also like to thank every one that attended. As mentioned prior, the competition was very serious. I equate the seriousness to any of the nationals that I have attended, but that is what the National Tour is all about. (I only wish that I had just one more run) But the competition is only a small part of what autox is all about, it was great to finally meet so many of you that I know just by name, reputation, or your frequent post to team.net. So once again, thanks to all that attended, it was an event to remember. Now to the other subject in the header. I may have been one of those that started this discussion. I have been autoxing starting on 6 years now. (I know, to most of you that is nothing). But after moving to Texas 2 years ago, my husband, who could no longer go hunting while I go play with my cars, decided that if he was every going to see me, he would need to start autoxing. So, he started where I started, in my HS Maxima. It took us a very short time to realize why I had retired it in the first place, so he figured he could co-drive my RX. The local events where ok, except for the unusual tire wear. (we went though a lot of tires) but the bigger events where the issue. We both enjoyed a different setup on the car, & I being 5'4" and him being over 6' it would take every bit of 5 minutes to change drivers, change setups, & get the engine & tires cooled off for the next run, not even thinking about the run we just made, or the run we are about to make. The big events where just one stress on us & the fun was gone. The primary solution to this was for me to run Ladies class. I have never run ladies class, even when I first started in autox. I have nothing against the ladies class, there are some very good drivers in it, but my question was why did I have to leave the group that I had been competing against for years just because my husband wanted to drive my car. We found a different solution, the approach we took is not for everyone. We ended up with 2 very different cars. I still have my SS RX-7 & he has a FM F440. The only stress we have with this setup is for trailer space. My RX enjoys the enclosed trailer & his 440 sits on the bed of our 3/4 ton Ford . Luckily he enjoy the people involved enough to look for other solutions. We joke about the SO class, & I don't know if that is the best approach. I know that Dan would not have wanted to run in a different class because, he too enjoys hot competition. The setup that we have now is the best that we can come up with although Dan's goal is to have both cars in an enclosed trailer ($$) with sleeping quarters($$$). (and of course, a new 1 ton truck for him($$$$)). I guess things could be worse, we could be fighting for custody of the truck on weekends. I would want to go racing & he would want to go hunting. I will at this point set a direction of the flames. So what do you all think would be the resulting vehicle if the 440 & the 3/4 ton every have off springs. (if you have never seen this setup, it is a sight) (BTW: the 3/4 ton is a powerstroke) The no longer silent, Su Brude Texas Region #93 SS - '93 RX-7 'Arrest-me-Red' From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 18:56:11 1999 From: Randy Chase To: Jeff Blankenship Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:58:51 -0700 Subject: Re: PT Cruiser Jeff Blankenship wrote: > > Please tell me the Cruiser is NOT going to be a good autocrosser. It is a Neon...just one thats morphed a bit. I saw one at the San Diego Car Show and was impressed with the style (but then I like the M coupe also). It seemed taller than it may actually be. So, I think it may be an okay autocrosser. But it is one I will wait to see someone else try it first. Randy Chase (settled on the MR-Spyder I think) '91 MR2 CS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 19:29:32 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: Su Brude , "Team.net" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:28:29 -0700 Subject: RE: Texas NT & the SO class Wow, what I'm finding amazing is that, although Su and I did talk (nice meeting you, Su!), I can't even remember us talking about the S.O. class! This is, to me, even MORE proof that this class is high in demand. Again, let me restate the guidelines: The significant other class is unlimited to gender, experience behind the wheel, driving ability, seriousness, involvement in the sport, so on and so forth. Technically, nothing changes, but now the Ladies class is open to both genders. Every email I read about this contains text pondering the significance of defining one's competitiveness or seriousness in autox for eligibility in the SO class. This isn't about that. We're just letting MEN run in the Ladies class! Why is this so difficult? It's like some team.net readers are trying to qualify the SO class. You can't do that. Why, really, even Gary Thomason, if he so desired, would be eligible for the SO class (I'm just calling it SO because we have yet to determine a better name). George Doganis, could, if he really wanted to, run in the SO class. Whoa, talk about upping the ante! Personally, I'll run Open. I've run Ladies for a really, really long time, but there are more entrants in Open. It's easier to gauge my improvement (or its opposite). On the other hand, if it appears more drivers are switching to SO, then I'll run there as well, since it is my CHOICE. How come, when granted the same opportunity for choice that we ladies have had all this time, now you men are freaking out in confusion? Now you want all this clarification. You want definitions. Why are you so picky? I still think we need a good name for this class, because, as Sandy and I have already stated, although competing in BS and BSL, we are NOT significant others, merely cozmic twins. Should we just have a class for cozmic twins? I ask the forum to think about this. On a slightly more serious note: can we PUHLEASE leave the psychological and physiological differences between men and women OUT of this discussion. I am soooo very tired of reading, "For some reason, women, in general, are slower than men." Ohhhhh barf. There are a LOT more men slower than men than there are women. For example, in B Stock, there were around 50 men slower than George Doganis, but only 11 women. That's right. As you move down the list, the men in B Stock just get slower and slower. Yet, we leave these people alone. No one has ever said, "Most men aren't as fast as George Doganis. I don't know WHY that is. Perhaps we can think of something to redress this inbalance. I don't know how, but it's certainly worth discussing." Thank you. I close for now. Katie P.S. If you're still going to debate this with me... ay ay ay. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 20:00:11 1999 From: "D. Engelhaupt" To: autox list Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SP shakeup > The small, fast CSP'ers remain in CSP -- the slower ones in > CSP go in a new DSP Brain, I take it that the Miata will remain in CSP then.... === Derek Engelhaupt Customer Engineer Hewlett Packard '97 White Mazda Miata Odenton, MD A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is braver five minutes longer. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson ---Brian M Kennedy wrote: > > Eric Linnhoff wrote: > > > > Howdy all. > > > > Since I have yet to receive my Sports Car mag, what's the big shakeup in > > SP? Is it more rules changes (anti-de-embolizer type rules) or car > > class changes? > > Car class changes. Roughly speaking, they're breaking up CSP into two classes > and making BSP into a class for fast but large sportscars (rather than just a > Corvette class). -- the current DSP becomes ESP and the current ESP > becomes FSP. A few of the faster but larger CSP cars (E36 M3, Porsche 928/968, > non-turbo 280ZX/300ZX) are being moved to BSP as are some of the slower and > larger ASP cars (Shelby Cobra 289, Mitsu 3000GT turbo, and turbo 280ZX/300ZX). > Also the Supra Turbo (was ESP?) was put in BSP. > > There were also various other jugglings of uncompetitive cars that all seemed > reasonable. > > Even though my car, E36 M3, is being moved to a slightly faster class, I think > the changes are very good. I really have very little in common with most of > my current competitors (tiny CRX's, RX-3's, and RX-7's) -- and I often feel a > bit cheated when I am beaten by them as they attack courses completely different > than I can. Even though BSP is faster than CSP, I'll enjoy being beaten by > Corvettes, 300ZX's, Porsche 968's, and such larger sportscars much better. > > One question: Why doesn't the 99 Porsche 911 show up? Surely over 1000 have > been sold. And then where's the Porsche Boxster? Or is nobody willing to > Street Prepare those cars?? ;^) > > > Brian > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 20:40:00 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "richard nichols" , "autox" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:30:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Intake mods, what class? >I reread the SP part myself, and I can see why you're confused. >Unfortunately I can't tell, either! :) Oh good. Well, not good that you're confused, but good that I'm not the only one who got confused. At least that proves that I'm not as crazy as I thought. Brian's answer was quite informative as to what I can and can't do, and it makes sense. Give me a couple of weeks, and hello DSP (well, soon to be ESP what with the SP class shakeup and all). >Reading that section, I see we turboguys can run water to air intercoolers >now. Cool (you should pardon the pun)!! Ugh. Only for a fellow SOL teammate. :) >86 Mustang SVO TII-1C: ESPfor now+IS2 What's up with the Mustang SVO, anyway? I've heard of them, but what's different about them than the normal Mustang? I guess a turbo, from what you said, but is that it? - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 21:03:55 1999 From: ejbaylis@pacbell.net To: "Burns, James B." Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:08:02 -0700 Subject: Re: g-Force vs. R1 Pressures for MKII MR2 Burns, James B. wrote: > > I just got a brandly new set of g-Forces, 225-50-14, for my '91 MR2T. With > the R1's, I was running around 26-28 psi. What's a good starting point for > pressures for the g-Forces? > > Brad Burns We've been using 40 psi all around here on the left coast. Hope you've heat cycled 'em; they don't last long otherwise :-( EJ Bayliss 91 MR2T ASL From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 21:06:19 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: "D. Engelhaupt" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:05:45 -0500 Subject: Re: SP shakeup "D. Engelhaupt" wrote: > > > The small, fast CSP'ers remain in CSP -- the slower ones in > > CSP go in a new DSP > > I take it that the Miata will remain in CSP then.... Yep, along with RX's; while the 323 and the MX-6 are in the new DSP. That's a pretty good example. Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 21:21:33 1999 From: washburn To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:18:12 -0500 Subject: Heavy Truck Help No AX content, but related to a car hauling vehicle: Can anyone help me with some questions I have regarding rear end gearing on a heavy truck chassis? Truck facts: 1980 International School Bus DT466 Turbo Diesel 5 speed trans Current gearing is somewhere around 5.7:1. (Close anyway) 2,700 RPM's has it maxing out at around 58 MPH. Gotta have more speed!!! Does anyone know about this area? Are ring/pinion sets available for this unit in more like 4.11:1? I think they are available, but run from $500 to $900 for new parts. Ouch! Kindly reply in private if you know anything about this stuff or if you know of a cheap or helpful parts source. Scotty, your a truck guy right? Thanks!! end-o-question -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 21:22:53 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: Steve Hoult Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:21:29 -0500 Subject: Re: SP shakeup Steve Hoult wrote: > > Is there somewhere online that I can peruse these proposed changes? The list that was online was notably different than the one in FasTrack. I do not know if they have updated it yet. > I run in > ASP and want to see what I might be up against next year. Actually, nothing new except for the M Coupe, M Roadster, and the 6cyl Z3. And I don't think those are really "new", they just hadn't made the 99 Rules book. Mainly you lost a number of large competitors to BSP (Nissan ZX's, Stealth Turbo, Fiat Spyder Turbo, and Shelby Cobra) and a couple small but underpowered competitors to CSP (Lotus Elite 1216cc and Porsche Carrera 4cyl). Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 21:31:46 1999 From: Talus9998@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:30:01 EDT Subject: RE:Nitrous plumbing Hi all Suppose someone had a car used for both autox and drag racing, and wanted to have more fun drag racing, but wanted to stay in their current class in autox. What does everyone think about having a nitrous system run in a car, but not active during autox (no bottle in the car, system not armed, etc...). Would this force them to change their class, or is this acceptable???? Any thoughts are appreciated Thanx, Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 21:52:21 1999 From: "James Gambony" To: "Kelly, Katie" , "Team.net" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:50:39 -0500 Subject: RE: Texas NT & the SO class Katie, I've missed most of this discussion... could you clarify? Is there going to be one big "SO" class, or one for each of the existing classes? If the point is to let an "SO" run in an event without the pressure of the regular open class, couldn't they join the other novices? In a way though what you're proposing sounds like Texas Region's "Vintage Class". Basically it's restricted to cars 20 years or older, ideally prepped like they'd have run as new. No restrictions on prep level or driver experience or GENDER. I ran 4 years ago in a tired '63 Mini Cooper (50 hp! Yahooooo!). Most events I ran against a fairly good TR6 driver. Some events I ran against a prepped Datsun 240Z. Sometimes I was the only one in class. One event I got to show a repli-cobra how to chase cones properly. :-) It gave me a place to play without having to spend all my spare time and $$ on the car (I bought my house that year). So it was a chance to actually enjoy an autocross event in a car that I enjoyed driving. Without needing crash bolts ;-) It's a region only class so it's not a "stepping stone" to serious national level competition. But it's a chance to go out and chase cones without the ulcers. Wouldn't that format work for your proposal? JMO Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Kelly, Katie > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 8:28 PM > To: Su Brude; Team.net > Subject: RE: Texas NT & the SO class > > > Wow, what I'm finding amazing is that, although Su and I did talk (nice > meeting you, Su!), I can't even remember us talking about the S.O. class! > > This is, to me, even MORE proof that this class is high in demand. > > Again, let me restate the guidelines: > > The significant other class is unlimited to gender, experience behind the > wheel, driving ability, seriousness, involvement in the sport, so > on and so > forth. Technically, nothing changes, but now the Ladies class is open to > both genders. Every email I read about this contains text pondering the > significance of defining one's competitiveness or seriousness in autox for > eligibility in the SO class. This isn't about that. We're just letting MEN > run in the Ladies class! Why is this so difficult? > > It's like some team.net readers are trying to qualify the SO class. You > can't do that. Why, really, even Gary Thomason, if he so desired, would be > eligible for the SO class (I'm just calling it SO because we have yet to > determine a better name). George Doganis, could, if he really > wanted to, run > in the SO class. Whoa, talk about upping the ante! > > Personally, I'll run Open. I've run Ladies for a really, really long time, > but there are more entrants in Open. It's easier to gauge my > improvement (or > its opposite). On the other hand, if it appears more drivers are switching > to SO, then I'll run there as well, since it is my CHOICE. > > How come, when granted the same opportunity for choice that we ladies have > had all this time, now you men are freaking out in confusion? Now you want > all this clarification. You want definitions. Why are you so picky? > > I still think we need a good name for this class, because, as Sandy and I > have already stated, although competing in BS and BSL, we are NOT > significant others, merely cozmic twins. Should we just have a class for > cozmic twins? I ask the forum to think about this. > > On a slightly more serious note: can we PUHLEASE leave the > psychological and > physiological differences between men and women OUT of this > discussion. I am > soooo very tired of reading, "For some reason, women, in general, > are slower > than men." Ohhhhh barf. There are a LOT more men slower than men > than there > are women. > > For example, in B Stock, there were around 50 men slower than George > Doganis, but only 11 women. > > That's right. As you move down the list, the men in B Stock just > get slower > and slower. Yet, we leave these people alone. > > No one has ever said, "Most men aren't as fast as George Doganis. I don't > know WHY that is. Perhaps we can think of something to redress this > inbalance. I don't know how, but it's certainly worth discussing." > > Thank you. I close for now. > > Katie > > P.S. If you're still going to debate this with me... ay ay ay. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 23:29:46 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: "Craig Blome" , "Steve Ostrovitz" , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:00:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Fast pairs.... Collins and Clark... Subject: Re: Fast pairs.... >There are some in SWDiv as well... > >Hollises >Strelnieks & McClure >Wille & Mutschler > >I must be forgetting a few, let me know. Would be an >interesting series... > >Craig Blome From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 23:59:29 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Talus9998@aol.com'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:00:33 -0600 Subject: RE: Nitrous plumbing No problem. Remove it before tech..in fact, dont bring it near the course at all. Should still be a stock class car. However, running NOS on a stock legal car..I dunno. No intake/exhaust modifications? Im thinking burnt valves here..being an old NOS hand myself. > -----Original Message----- > From: Talus9998@aol.com [SMTP:Talus9998@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 10:30 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: RE:Nitrous plumbing > > Hi all > Suppose someone had a car used for both autox and drag racing, and > wanted to have more fun drag racing, but wanted to stay in their current > class in autox. What does everyone think about having a nitrous system > run > in a car, but not active during autox (no bottle in the car, system not > armed, etc...). Would this force them to change their class, or is this > acceptable???? > Any thoughts are appreciated > Thanx, > Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 00:34:22 1999 From: Robert Szypicyn To: miata@realbig.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:33:56 -0400 Subject: BFG g-Force: 225 vs 205 All, I'm currently running the 225/50r14 R1s on my 94R, but in about a month they will need replacement. Is the 225/50r14 still the size to go with on the g-Force, or is the 205 better seeing as the tires no longer have the built-in camber effect. Any and all advice would be appreciated! Cheers! -Rob ----------------------------- Robert Szypicyn bimrboy@fast.net Philly Region SCCA -1994 Mazda Miata R, #19 BS -1997 BMW 318ti (aka: stealth Clubsport) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 06:31:45 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Su Brude , "Team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Texas NT & the SO class --- Su Brude wrote: > So what do you all > think would be the resulting vehicle if the 440 & > the 3/4 ton every have off > springs. (if you have never seen this setup, it is > a sight) (BTW: the 3/4 > ton is a powerstroke) > hmm...maybe the '58 Plymouth Fury in "Christine"? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 06:38:39 1999 From: Craig Blome To: "Mohler, Jeff" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: Nitrous plumbing --- "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > > Remove it before tech..in fact, dont bring it near > the course at all. > This is something I've never been especially clear on. I know nitrous is anathema according to the rule book. My question is, why is this? I know it's easy to blow up a motor by just slapping a bottle on it. But from a technical standpoint, as long as you get adequate fuel to the engine, supercharging is supercharging whether mechanical or chemical. Craig Blome From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 06:44:44 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Craig Blome'" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:42:01 -0500 Subject: RE: Nitrous plumbing Well, NOS just isnt a competative thing in Autox..its would be harder to class this than turbos to be honest. it's more of a philisophical stand as I see it. If a manufacturer released a production car with NOS, then things would change im sure. > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Blome [SMTP:cblome@yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 7:38 AM > To: Mohler, Jeff; 'Talus9998@aol.com'; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: Nitrous plumbing > > --- "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > > > > Remove it before tech..in fact, dont bring it near > > the course at all. > > > > This is something I've never been especially clear on. > I know nitrous is anathema according to the rule > book. My question is, why is this? I know it's easy > to blow up a motor by just slapping a bottle on it. > But from a technical standpoint, as long as you get > adequate fuel to the engine, supercharging is > supercharging whether mechanical or chemical. > > Craig Blome > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 08:00:35 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , , , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 99 09:57:13 -0500 Subject: TSOL website http://www.channel1.com/users/ka1ult/tsol Here you'll find the Team SOL crew, their philosophy, and the members........ Enjoy - Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP Team SOL #1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 08:17:30 1999 From: "Lance Schueneman" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:54:54 +500 Subject: NT @ TMS photos To whomever asked about photos from the Oval lapping sessions, they were only done on Friday afternoon, and they were done by Jack Puryear Photo Designs. Their website http://www.io.com/~jpphoto/ has the phone #, and their email is jpphoto@io.com. They should be able to help you out as long as you tell them a little about the car (color, model, etc) and when you ran. They probably can also get pictures from the autox course too. Hope this helps out! Lance Schueneman Alvin, TX 96 ACR Sedan - #49 ST - 2nd place FWNT From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 08:38:21 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:38:20 -0400 Subject: Was SO, Now Nationals Ladies Classes <<>> The entry numbers in the Ladies classes says it all. Going to Salina, er Topeka is a very big deal for most people. If you can get your better half to actually _enjoy_ going you have accomplished a lot. As one who's SO refused to participate and hated spending the day in a parking lot I say whatever works is a very good thing. Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 08:48:43 1999 From: Tesec@compuserve.com To: "TEAM.NET" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:46:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Fast pairs.... Howdy, Two winning Porsche drivers : Matt and David Murray (Not that there's anything wrong with that) mike From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 08:53:09 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:53:09 -0400 Subject: Testosterone Poisoning <<>> Two words: Shirley Muldowney. If you haven't seen the movie rent it! Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 09:06:11 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: "team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: SO Class??? Howdy, On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Kelly, Katie wrote: > Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's speed > or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. Wait... you were serious about this? Then I've got a suggestion. Just have a novice class. This "SO" and "Ladies" etc. stuff all boils down to giving people that are starting out or aren't very competitive a place to play. A Novice class does all that across the board. To keep people from cherrypicking it, setup some rules (like top 3 in points or whatever) to automatically advance people to open. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 09:09:47 1999 From: Matt Murray To: Tesec@compuserve.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:10:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Fast pairs.... If only it were true. David Murry Matt Murray Sounds the same, different spelling. How about my hair and Tommy Kendall's or my hair and Jeff Reitmier's or my hair and Jacques Villenuvue in '97? :-) Tesec@compuserve.com wrote: > Howdy, > > Two winning Porsche drivers : Matt and David Murray > > (Not that there's anything wrong with that) > > mike -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 09:26:44 1999 From: Scott Willard To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:22:26 -0500 Subject: Race Tires for Sale FS: Set of four Goodyear Eagle GS-CS race tires. Size: 225/50-16. These tires are primarily road race tires but they are also fine for autox. Generally they are not used for autox because they cost close to $200 EACH. These tires are practically brand new. I'm getting a new suspension and the guy who designed it insists that I use a wider tire. DOT legal. I'm asking only $400 plus shipping costs unless the buyer is close by and we can exchange $$$ and tires in person. I live in South Eastern Virginia. Email is fine or you can contact me a (757) 864-3469 Thanks, Scott From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 09:40:13 1999 From: Steve Couture To: "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: PT Cruiser I sincerely doubt that the PT Cruiser will be any better an autocrosser than a first generation Chrysler mini-van. I make this assertation based on a couple of observations: 1. Lots of glass up high. Glass is heavy. Heavy up high = high CG = negative impact on handling as compared to its Neon brethren. 2. Although based on the Neon platform, the underpinnings are /*not the same as*/ the Neon. When I saw the PT Cruiser at the Detroit Auto Show I spent some time maneuvering around the display to get a good look under the beast. Yes, under. The big thing I saw that I have yet to hear anyone else point out is the rear I-beam suspension. Definately not a Neon piece. Definately not an ideal autocross setup. -- Steve Couture (rhymes with future!) 98 Neon ACR #57 DS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 09:42:58 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: "AutoX" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:40:51 -0700 Subject: Corvette Lovers check it out, others delete now Hey gang, ever wanna see a real SCCA Pro Road Race team up close and personal? Well MTI Racing is here in Bowling Green at the National Corvette Museum for the C5 Birthday Bash. We have brought the stunning #97 World Challenge C5 fresh from it's 3rd 2 day test (where it performed flawlessley, AGAIN!) for all to see! We have also brought our new AWESOME 53' Transporter *Buddy* for all to see and take a tour of! Just make sure and bring some sunglasses so the work space counters don't blind you ;-) We will also have the MTI Racing #97 T1 C5 Corvette with just 2 races under it's belt and a *PERFECT* record for poles and wins so far ;-) Come by and see us! Say hi to Phil and Kurt truck driver and key crew member. Look Matt Murphy up and say howdy to our team mgr. Both Reese Cox and Scotty B White, drivers of the #97 & #98 World Challenge C5 Corvettes for the 1999 season will be there to give tours of the cars & Transporter and discuss MTI Racing's upcoming assault on the 99 World Challenge season that kicks off May 21 at Mossport. Stay tuned for more info about MTI Racing's testing of it's World Challenge cars this week... www.c5-corvette.com/C5_Racing.htm & www.c5registry.com/racinginfo/MTI/index.htm From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 10:04:44 1999 From: Paul Foster To: racing , wheeltowheel , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:04:30 -0400 Subject: Engine Vacuums I was watching a car show (big surprise!) on what I think was Speedvision - but it may have been ESPN or somesuch. May have been Motor Trend - maybe not. But anywhoooo, they had a new gizmo from Sun that was supposed to clean all carbon deposits and gunk out of the engine. They showed various internal engine components before and after and it was really impressive. They inject a bunch of chemicals into the fuel line while the car is running and it cleans everything right up. Has anybody done this? How much did they charge? Anybody know a location in the Orlando area that has one? Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 10:25:50 1999 From: carl.crites@us.pwcglobal.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:22:18 -0500 Subject: Hooiser autox tires for sale For Sale: 4 - 225/55-16 Hooiser A3SO2 autox tires. Only 1 race on them. $300.00 plus shipping. Contact Carl Crites at (817)877-2263 or carl.crites@us.pwcglobal.com Carl ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 10:29:25 1999 From: rikracer To: "Mark J. Andy" , "team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:31:54 -0700 Subject: Re: SO Class??? Subject: RE: SO Class??? >Howdy, > >On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Kelly, Katie wrote: >> Again, as it is now, the Ladies class is not representative of one's speed >> or natural driving ability. Let's open the door for some men. > >Wait... you were serious about this? > >Then I've got a suggestion. Just have a novice class. This "SO" and >"Ladies" etc. stuff all boils down to giving people that are starting out >or aren't very competitive a place to play. A Novice class does all that >across the board. To keep people from cherrypicking it, setup some rules >(like top 3 in points or whatever) to automatically advance people to >open. > >Mark This makes sense to me. I know several regions have novice programs. Cal Club has for some time and the class is always well subscribed. In our version, you run with your regular class, but on the scoreboard and in the results you show up in Novice. We don't even bother to index or anything, you can stay in as long as you want or until you trophy, which automatically moves you to the open classes. Don't know if there is a need for Novice at Tours or Nationals, most people have probably run some local events before doing either. But it might not be a bad idea to have a novice system described in the rule book. Or if you area doesn't have one, just get the info from a region that does and start one. Seems pretty simple to me. Rick Brown AP 240Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 10:42:01 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Paul Foster" , "racing" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:44:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Engine Vacuums >I was watching a car show (big surprise!) on what I think was >Speedvision - but it may have been ESPN or somesuch. May have been Motor >Trend - maybe not. But anywhoooo, they had a new gizmo from Sun that was >supposed to clean all carbon deposits and gunk out of the engine. They >showed various internal engine components before and after and it was >really impressive. They inject a bunch of chemicals into the fuel line >while the car is running and it cleans everything right up. > >Has anybody done this? How much did they charge? Anybody know a location >in the Orlando area that has one? There are many companies with this kind of product now. There are even generic versions. Some are very easy to use. I've seen a NAPA brand version that is a aerosol can that screws into a valve/gauge set. You remove the fuel line from your cars FI and replace it with the line from the Valve/Gauge set and run the car off the can of cleaner until it runs out. Now the insides of you engine are (supposedly) clean. I think this is going to become one of those services that every corner garage is going to what to offer, including the Quick Oil change guys. It takes no brains to do, is very hard to mess up, takes about 15 minutes to do and is almost ALL profit! Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 12:06:27 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:05:14 EDT Subject: SEDiv Event #1 reminder Just a reminder to all that the opening event of the 1999 BFG SEDiv Solo2 Series is scheduled for May 1 & 2 at the Atlanta Motor Speedway near Hampton, GA. The 1999 SEDivSolo2 Series will again be sponsored by both BFGoodrich g-Force tires and SF Motorsports. Please make an effort to support these sponsors when possible. We have information and online registration available at the SEDiv Solo2 Series website. The entry list can also be accessed at the website by clicking onto the link titled "Car Numbers". We have 63 drivers entered to date, which means about 50% of the rest of the people who will show up are still procrastinating until the last minute! If you've already entered using the online registration process, please check to make sure you are on the list. We don't think we've missed anyone, but you know how errant electrons can be :-). Click the link below to go directly to the SEDiv Solo2 Series website: 1999 SEDiv Solo2 Series Any problems, questions, etc. please contact me directly. We look forward to having a great event. BTW, the Atlanta Region is racing at AMS on both Sunday's before the really big show, so practice time is available for anyone who can make it. M Sipe 334-286-8300 teamz3@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:17:55 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [BOUNCE autox@Autox.Team.Net: Non-member submission from [Alan Pozner ]] Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:17:32 -0400 From: Alan Pozner Subject: RE: I have 13 runs on my G-Forces. They have 50% wear on the front outsides. But the front insides still have the micro grooves showing. The rears still have even the micro treads intact all around both inside and out. I am going to swap them front to rear and run another 12 or so runs then get them swapped inside for outside on the wheels. I estimate I will get 64 - 75 runs out of them total. I like 'em! Alan Pozner '93 ES delSol From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:30:04 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: "Kelly, Katie" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:30:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Texas NT & the SO class "Kelly, Katie" wrote: > We're just letting MEN run in the Ladies class! Why is this so > difficult? > > It's like some team.net readers are trying to qualify the SO class. > You can't do that. Why, really, even Gary Thomason, if he so desired, > would be eligible for the SO class (I'm just calling it SO because we > have yet to determine a better name). George Doganis, could, if he > really wanted to, run in the SO class. Whoa, talk about upping the > ante! Maybe I'm missing the point just as much as everyone else, but I think I have a solution that addresses everyone else's concerns and won't bother Katie too much. How about the only qualification for running in the SO class is that someone must also be running the very same car in the corresponding Open class? Doesn't matter who's faster, who's more serious, who's wearing a bra. Just someone, anyone, must be in Open in order for that car to run in SO. I realize this doesn't quite mirror the way the Ladies classes work today, but it does address most of the reasons why the Ladies classes were created, and why they persist, as I understand them. Of course, this proposal would completely screw up season championship systems, so it's not perfect... Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:34:34 1999 From: Paula Whitney To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:30:17 -0500 Subject: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. paula whitney From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:41:05 1999 From: Sam Strano To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:40:48 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: >Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a non-points event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:44:52 1999 From: Jason Suknot To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:44:11 -0500 Subject: RE: And now for something completely different... >"Ayer, John K" wrote: >If that's your real name, you can't help butt join :) > >> >>I have given some thought to seeking TLS membership myself... Yep that's my real name, and if you find anyone else with that last name in this country you win a prize. As far as I know I am the only one left on this side of the pond. As far as TLS goes I think my car qualifies me more than the name. 87' VW Golf GL, yep the four door, you know the one with the 8v low compresion low HP motor. To top it all off the paint which used to be a nice shiny silver grey is now several shades of dull grey and the body looks like someone sat it in the middle of a driving range for a couple of days. Add the fact that it has not seen an autocross course in over a year (man I really need to fix that transmission) and that I stripped the interior for parts and I think I am a shoe in for TLS and TSOL. Now who was handing out those numbers...................? Jason Suknot From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:48:53 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Sam Strano Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:43:42 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Ok Oklahoma guys! Hurt him! Mike B. TLS#1 Sam Strano wrote: > At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: > >Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. > > Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a > hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a non-points > event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... > Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. > > > > Sam Strano Jr. > Strano Performance Parts > 800-729-1831 > 814-849-3417 (tech.) > www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:51:39 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Sam Strano" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:52:33 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled >At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: >>Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. > >Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a >hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a non-points >event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... >Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. >Sam Strano Jr. ======================== Well, ya see.........here in the Midwest we've had our fill of "drag" type events over the years. We prefer lots of corners in our autocross courses. ;^) That, and it just doesn't appeal to me personally. If'n I wanna drag race, I'll go to a drag strip. And if'n I wanna autocross, well, I'll just go to an autocross. ProSolo people are basically just wierd and confused people. :^P See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:52:02 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Jason Suknot Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:46:45 -0500 Subject: Re: And now for something completely different... All TLS #'s are issued by me. If you want to join E-Mail me and you will recieve your # shortly. Great name Dude. Mike B. TLS#1 Jason Suknot wrote: > >"Ayer, John K" wrote: > > >If that's your real name, you can't help butt join :) > > > >> > >>I have given some thought to seeking TLS membership myself... > > Yep that's my real name, and if you find anyone else with that last name > in this country you win a prize. As far as I know I am the only one left > on this side of the pond. > > As far as TLS goes I think my car qualifies me more than the name. 87' > VW Golf GL, yep the four door, you know the one with the 8v low > compresion low HP motor. To top it all off the paint which used to be a > nice shiny silver grey is now several shades of dull grey and the body > looks like someone sat it in the middle of a driving range for a couple > of days. > > Add the fact that it has not seen an autocross course in over a year > (man I really need to fix that transmission) and that I stripped the > interior for parts and I think I am a shoe in for TLS and TSOL. > > Now who was handing out those numbers...................? > > Jason Suknot From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:52:38 1999 From: Sam Strano To: Mike Bultemeier Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:52:02 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled At 02:43 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Mike Bultemeier wrote: >Ok Oklahoma guys! Hurt him! Now, now. Calm down. My point was there wasn't any incentive for me (and probably a lot of others) to drive to Oklahoma for an event that didn't pay points or money. Add that to the fact SCCA is disappointed with the turn out they get with "real" Pro's I wonder what made them think the "Expo" would fly. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:55:31 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:50:27 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Ok everybody else! Hurt him! Mike B. Eric Linnhoff wrote: > >At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: > >>Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. > > > >Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a > >hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a > non-points > >event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... > >Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. > >Sam Strano Jr. > ======================== > Well, ya see.........here in the Midwest we've had our fill of "drag" > type events over the years. We prefer lots of corners in our autocross > courses. ;^) > > That, and it just doesn't appeal to me personally. If'n I wanna drag > race, I'll go to a drag strip. And if'n I wanna autocross, well, I'll > just go to an autocross. > > ProSolo people are basically just wierd and confused people. :^P > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. > I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. > Ah, you reach down, between my legs, > ease the seat back. > She's blinding, I'm flying, > Right behind the rear-view mirror now. > Got the feeling, power steering, > Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" > ------------------------------------------------------------- > "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:56:02 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Jason Suknot" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:59:17 -0400 Subject: Re: And now for something completely different... >Add the fact that it has not seen an autocross course in over a year >(man I really need to fix that transmission) and that I stripped the >interior for parts and I think I am a shoe in for TLS and TSOL. What class does your Golf fall into? If you're HS, I wouldn't say you're "hopelessly outclassed." Ever not place even one run at an event? Place dead last? For the season? Just trying to more accurately gauge how you qualify - check out the TSOL web site for more details. (Scott gave the URL earlier.) Just remember, it's either TLS or TSOL - the decision is yours. Can't be both, because TLS is our sworn mortal enemy for pretty much no reason whatsoever. :) - Justin TSOL #4 So what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Golf, anyway? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:57:43 1999 From: Michael Knapp To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:56:49 -0700 Subject: Oklahoma Where's Oklahoma? Mike TLS #318 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:02:49 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Michael Knapp" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:06:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Oklahoma >Where's Oklahoma? Dunno, man... Isn't it somewhere south? Like near New Jersey? >:) - Justin TSOL #4 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:06:12 1999 From: Gemery@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:04:34 EDT Subject: SP Restructure Proposal Time for some conjecture... by collecting the smaller turbo cars in the new DSP, is the SPAC trying to pave the way so FCD removal and blowoff valves will become legal? Or does that make too much sense? And why bother splitting the 1500 and 1300 X-1/9 between the new CSP & the new ESP? We already know the 1500 is 2SLO4CSP and that there isn't a class worth of difference between 1500 & 1300... George Emery gemery@aol.com http://members.aol.com/gemery From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:18:50 1999 From: "BPS Administrator" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:31:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Oklahoma You know what really funny? Back when I was in high school about 4-5 years ago we had some exchange students from france. They all thought they we're gonna see cowboys and indians. They we're quite shocked to get to Tulsa and see that it's a large city with over 650,000 people :p~ -Mike TSOL #3 > >Where's Oklahoma? > > > Dunno, man... Isn't it somewhere south? Like near New Jersey? >:) > > - Justin > TSOL #4 > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:25:05 1999 From: Phil Vanner To: "'Justin Hughes'" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:17:18 -0500 Subject: RE: And now for something completely different... - Justin TSOL #4 So what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Golf, anyway? Is that a European Golf or a Mexican Golf? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:29:15 1999 From: "msmith2" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:29:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Oklahoma It's where men are men, sheep are nervous, and tornadoes are frequent. Mike > Where's Oklahoma? > > Mike > > TLS #318 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:40:25 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:43:58 -0400 Subject: Re: And now for something completely different... > So what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Golf, anyway? > >Is that a European Golf or a Mexican Golf? Um, I don't know that... AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa.............. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:50:18 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Phil Vanner" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:46:49 -0500 Subject: Re: And now for something completely different... Phil asked: > So what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Golf, anyway? > >Is that a European Golf or a Mexican Golf? King of the who? Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:56:35 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: msmith2 , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:55:31 -0700 Subject: RE: Oklahoma Msmith2 writes (about Oklahoma)... >It's where men are men, sheep are nervous... Wouldn't that be Ohio? Katie From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:02:51 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Kelly, Katie" , "msmith2" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:03:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Oklahoma >Msmith2 writes (about Oklahoma)... > >>It's where men are men, sheep are nervous... > >Wouldn't that be Ohio? > >Katie =================== Or more truthfully, _anywhere_ near San Francisco. ;^) Saw a great T-shirt that says it all for me. "100% American, Christian, Heterosexual, Conservative and Pro-Gun. Any questions?" See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:03:58 1999 From: "Glenn Duensing" To: "msmith2" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:00:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Oklahoma >It's where men are men, sheep are nervous, and tornadoes are frequent. > >Mike > So it's in Ohio 8^)? Glenn > >> Where's Oklahoma? >> >> Mike >> >> TLS #318 > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:15:23 1999 From: "msmith2" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:16:38 -0700 Subject: Re: Oklahoma Well, ok. Ohio really doesn't get THAT many tornadoes...........8-P Mike > >Msmith2 writes (about Oklahoma)... > > > >>It's where men are men, sheep are nervous... > > > >Wouldn't that be Ohio? > > > >Katie > =================== > Or more truthfully, _anywhere_ near San Francisco. ;^) > > Saw a great T-shirt that says it all for me. "100% American, Christian, > Heterosexual, Conservative and Pro-Gun. Any questions?" > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. > I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. > Ah, you reach down, between my legs, > ease the seat back. > She's blinding, I'm flying, > Right behind the rear-view mirror now. > Got the feeling, power steering, > Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" > ------------------------------------------------------------- > "Panama" by Van Halen > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:17:34 1999 From: Eldon Brooks To: "Glenn Duensing" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:16:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Oklahoma Just to clearify it is Maine. And the saying is "Maine where men are men, sheep are nervous, and the women shave more than both of them." 8-> At 02:00 PM 4/15/99 -0700, Glenn Duensing wrote: > > >>It's where men are men, sheep are nervous, and tornadoes are frequent. >> >>Mike >> > > >So it's in Ohio 8^)? > >Glenn > > >> >>> Where's Oklahoma? >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> TLS #318 >> >> > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:40:20 1999 From: Mark Todd To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:41:57 -0500 Subject: Seat needed Hey y'all, My stock seat finally broke, giving me not only the excuse but also the necessity of buying a new seat. If anyone has a new/used racing/sport seat which could reasonably be used for short commuting distances, please contact me directly ASAP. I've got the Racer Wholesale catalog - is anyone else cheaper? Also, if anyone has experience using a Kirkey or similar seat on the street, please let me know how well it works. Many thanks Mark Todd #323 E Modified Ostensibly Legal Racing Team From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:49:25 1999 From: Jason Suknot To: Phil Vanner , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:48:38 -0500 Subject: Re: And now for something completely different... Si senor it is Mexican, I believe only the wolfsburg edition golfs were made in Germany during this time frame. More knowledgeable people than I will correct me if I am wrong here. Jason Suknot Phil Vanner wrote: > - Justin > TSOL #4 > So what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Golf, anyway? > > Is that a European Golf or a Mexican Golf? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:54:14 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Eric Linnhoff , strano@stranoparts.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:46:58 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled OK Eric, Speak for yourself, not the rest of us in the midwest. I really love Pro Solo Format, but am out of town on business. Sam I beieve the reason it came about is due to the great Divisional turnouts we have had, and due to the Oklahoma people really working on SCCA thinking the midwest would support it. For some reason the Midwest people have not supported Pro Solo's well. Rob Eric Linnhoff wrote: > >At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: > >>Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. > > > >Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a > >hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a > non-points > >event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... > >Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. > >Sam Strano Jr. > ======================== > Well, ya see.........here in the Midwest we've had our fill of "drag" > type events over the years. We prefer lots of corners in our autocross > courses. ;^) > > That, and it just doesn't appeal to me personally. If'n I wanna drag > race, I'll go to a drag strip. And if'n I wanna autocross, well, I'll > just go to an autocross. > > ProSolo people are basically just wierd and confused people. :^P > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. > I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. > Ah, you reach down, between my legs, > ease the seat back. > She's blinding, I'm flying, > Right behind the rear-view mirror now. > Got the feeling, power steering, > Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" > ------------------------------------------------------------- > "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:57:02 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: "Mike Bultemeier" , "Sam Strano" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:57:31 -0600 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Hmmmn' Not a hot bed? Watch out for yours. It may spontaneously burst into flames. I digress, sorry. Lets not get into a "discussion" about who is or isn't living/from a place that is a hot bed of anything. OKAY,FOLKS???? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bultemeier To: Sam Strano Cc: 'autox@autox.team.net' Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 1:51 PM Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled >Ok Oklahoma guys! Hurt him! > >Mike B. TLS#1 > >Sam Strano wrote: > >> At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: >> >Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. >> >> Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a >> hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a non-points >> event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... >> Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. >> >> >> >> Sam Strano Jr. >> Strano Performance Parts >> 800-729-1831 >> 814-849-3417 (tech.) >> www.stranoparts.com > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:06:26 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: bruces@caspers.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:05:07 EDT Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled In a message dated 4/15/99 6:00:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bruces@caspers.net writes: << Lets not get into a "discussion" about who is or isn't living/from a place that is a hot bed of anything. >> Aw, come on! I've got more Kansas jokes than I know what to do with! Daniel "I can't say anything, I'm from Kentucky..." Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:16:39 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:17:07 -0600 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled - hot bed? And I have enjoyed most jokes about most places, since most of them are interchangeable from place/person/etc. etc.. Just depends on where you are from, doesn't it??? I just came onto this autocross network this week and was enjoying the discussions and information giving. Keep up the good work and keep it somewhat clean, okay? -----Original Message----- From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: bruces@caspers.net Cc: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 4:06 PM Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled >In a message dated 4/15/99 6:00:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >bruces@caspers.net writes: > ><< Lets not get into a "discussion" about who is or > isn't living/from a place that is a hot bed of anything. >> > >Aw, come on! I've got more Kansas jokes than I know what to do with! > >Daniel "I can't say anything, I'm from Kentucky..." Ledford >99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:21:21 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:13:48 -0400 Subject: Re: SO Class??? Katie Kelly wrote: > The significant other class is unlimited to gender, experience > behind the wheel, driving ability, seriousness, involvement > in the sport, so on and so forth. Technically, nothing changes, > but now the Ladies class is open to both genders. Every email I > read about this contains text pondering the significance of > defining one's competitiveness or seriousness in autox for > eligibility in the SO class. This isn't about that. We're just > letting MEN run in the Ladies class! Why is this so difficult? Well, because now you've split the classes in half. Instead of "B Stock Open" and "B Stock Ladies" you've effectively created "B Stock A" and "B Stock B". If there's no technical difference between the classes, then how do you choose which class to run in? Will there be "BSA" and "BSB" National Champions? Will Mazda pay full contingency in both "BSA" and "BSB"? If you're going to have two classes, then there has to be some defining characteristic between the two. Currently, it's gender. Would your "SO" class require that you have actually have a SO running in Open? Urk, try policing that! Now if the SO class was a "no times and/or no trophies" class, you'd have something. However, with no times and/or no trophies, then there's really no need to class CARS at all (times no longer matter) so then the SO class becomes one consolidated class (which may not be a bad idea) So how does this sit with you: Eliminate Ladies, and create a no-trophy SO class for anyone who wants to run in it? DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:24:39 1999 From: "David Green" To: "Net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:24:26 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Part of the problem is that the event was on the same day as our Solo II here in Wichita (at McConnell AFB, our best site). There were a bunch of folks in our region that would have considered going if that had not been the case. I don't know if it would have been enough, but it would have helped. David Green >OK Eric, Speak for yourself, not the rest of us in the midwest. I really >love Pro Solo Format, but am out of town on business. > >Sam I beieve the reason it came about is due to the great Divisional >turnouts we have had, and due to the Oklahoma people really working on SCCA >thinking the midwest would support it. For some reason the Midwest people >have not supported Pro Solo's well. > >Rob > >Eric Linnhoff wrote: > >> >At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: >> >>Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. >> > >> >Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a >> >hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a >> non-points >> >event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... >> >Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. >> >Sam Strano Jr. >> ======================== >> Well, ya see.........here in the Midwest we've had our fill of "drag" >> type events over the years. We prefer lots of corners in our autocross >> courses. ;^) >> >> That, and it just doesn't appeal to me personally. If'n I wanna drag >> race, I'll go to a drag strip. And if'n I wanna autocross, well, I'll >> just go to an autocross. >> >> ProSolo people are basically just wierd and confused people. :^P >> >> See you on course. >> >> Eric Linnhoff in KC >> #69DS TLS #13 >> '98 Neon R/T >> >> >> "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. >> I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. >> Ah, you reach down, between my legs, >> ease the seat back. >> She's blinding, I'm flying, >> Right behind the rear-view mirror now. >> Got the feeling, power steering, >> Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> "Panama" by Van Halen > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:30:30 1999 From: Sam Strano To: "Bruce Sargent" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:30:09 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled At 03:57 PM 4/15/99 -0600, Bruce Sargent wrote: >Hmmmn' >Not a hot bed? Watch out for yours. It may spontaneously burst into >flames. > >I digress, sorry. Lets not get into a "discussion" about who is or >isn't living/from a place that is a hot bed of anything. OKAY,FOLKS???? Wow, aren't we touchy. I said it seems to me............ Maybe I'm wrong. But my point was they would've had a hell of a lot better chance if it was a real event. Everyone is sooooo touchy. Sheeh. >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Bultemeier >To: Sam Strano >Cc: 'autox@autox.team.net' >Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 1:51 PM >Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled > > >>Ok Oklahoma guys! Hurt him! >> >>Mike B. TLS#1 >> >>Sam Strano wrote: >> >>> At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: >>> >Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. >>> >>> Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a >>> hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a non-points >>> event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... >>> Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sam Strano Jr. >>> Strano Performance Parts >>> 800-729-1831 >>> 814-849-3417 (tech.) >>> www.stranoparts.com >> > > > > Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:55:07 1999 From: "James Rogerson" To: "'Autox'" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:53:38 -0500 Subject: PT Cruiser Bruce, the best part is the seats are made to be REMOVED. You can run it stock with no rear passenger seats and drop the weight below an ACR! Just like the Yugo sport! And if you put in a huge woofer pointed to the rear, time the exit to the pulse of the music, you can open the rear hatch and make it a really big bass tube that propels you out of the turns. We'll all stand on the sidelines and say, "Damn." James Rogerson Houston "Nails are glue, hypothetically speaking" - Earl Fertile "Men that like golf are unhappy at home and are unable to have meaningful relationships with women" - Joseph Heller TLS #18; Old Farts #86 [Too many cars to list] From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 18:04:04 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:08:16 -0500 Subject: Re: SO Class??? >If you're going to have two classes, then there has to be some defining >characteristic between the two. Currently, it's gender No. It's sex. "Gender" is a linguistic differentiator. It is not a satisfactory substitute for "sex". Then again, what is? Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 18:04:36 1999 From: "David Green" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:03:57 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Lets see, your the same guy that wants to castrate turbo cars as I recall.... But please don't get that thread started again. ;-) >At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: >>Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. > >Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a >hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a non-points >event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... >Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. > > > > >Sam Strano Jr. >Strano Performance Parts >800-729-1831 >814-849-3417 (tech.) >www.stranoparts.com > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 18:11:16 1999 From: Sam Strano To: "David Green" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:10:42 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled At 07:03 PM 4/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >Lets see, your the same guy that wants to castrate turbo cars as I >recall.... But please don't get that thread started again. ;-) I think you have me *really* confused with someone else. The only problem I have with Turbos is when a factory boost limiter is circumvented. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 18:42:10 1999 From: sr20de@systemhouse.net To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:35:13 -0700 Subject: I'LL BUY YOUR AUTOX TIRES! I'm looking for some used autox tires to put on my 14x6 wheels. I need a set. Thanks! John From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:13:55 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net, Phax@eng.kns.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:13:49 PDT Subject: McCamey on 4/24 Is anyone on the list Signed up for McCamey on 4/25 In Philadelphia? I am currently signed for 4/24 and one of my BMW friends Called me telling me they want to have an autocross on that day, I would like to do both if anyone is willing to switch, Thanks Jeff Lloyd '96 Z3 1.9 "bond pkg" #007 Philly Region BS #7 Team Laughing Stock "lucky" #7 NNJR Reigon BS #7 GIAC/BMWCCA Autocross series founder + #7 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:23:51 1999 From: John Lieberman To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:26:48 -0500 Subject: BFG logo Anybody know where I can grab a quick .GIF or .JPG image of the BFG Team T/A logo? I'm trying to knock out the entry forms for our TLAC (Trans-Louisiana Autocross Challenge) event here in Shreveport on May 23rd. I've already tried the BFGtires site and their .GIF image is one that changes colors. I need something static. Any ideas? John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:27:50 1999 From: "D. Engelhaupt" To: John Lieberman , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: BFG logo Try the TireRack site.......they have a static one.... === Derek Engelhaupt Customer Engineer Hewlett Packard '97 White Mazda Miata Odenton, MD No medicine cures what happiness cannot. -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez ---John Lieberman wrote: > > Anybody know where I can grab a quick .GIF or .JPG image of the BFG > Team T/A logo? I'm trying to knock out the entry forms for our TLAC > (Trans-Louisiana Autocross Challenge) event here in Shreveport on May > 23rd. I've already tried the BFGtires site and their .GIF image is > one that changes colors. I need something static. Any ideas? > > John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:46:29 1999 From: Jorge Palacios To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:46:01 -0400 Subject: First time Auto cross This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F5DD13ADE192B24E96519560 Hello everyone, I want to get started autocrossing my car, I have a Mazda MX6 LS with 63000 miles and a couple of performance mods.... I need some information on who i should contact in my area, North Bergen New Jersey (North east NJ) so I can get started this month if anything.. any help and information would be graetly appreciated. thank you. --------------F5DD13ADE192B24E96519560 name="trilce-2.vcf" Content-Description: Card for Jorge Palacios Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="trilce-2.vcf" begin:vcard n:Palacios;Jorge tel;home:201-662-2080 tel;work:201-907-5344 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:IDT/Net2Phone;Customer Service adr:;;;North bergen ;N.J.;07047;United States version:2.1 email;internet:Trilce-2@idt.net title:Customer Service/Technical Support/Weekend Supervisor fn:Jorge Palacios end:vcard --------------F5DD13ADE192B24E96519560-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:56:42 1999 From: HPKY59A@prodigy.com ( BENNY DEMENT) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:53:00, -0500 Subject: Muskogee Canceled Just got a phone messange saying that the Pro Expo in Muskogee was Canceled. What a drag!!! Have ya'll heard about that. Benny Dement CSP 56 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 21:36:51 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: Auto-X mailing list Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:36:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > Aw, come on! I've got more Kansas jokes than I know what to do with! Yah... like *THAT'S* challenging... 8-) Dale --- The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 22:04:25 1999 From: Jesse Lipscher To: Jorge Palacios , autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:03:41 -0400 Subject: Re: First time Auto cross >need some information on who i should contact in my area, North Bergen >New Jersey (North east NJ) so I can get started this month if anything.. Clubs within driving distanct to the Northern NJ area include: Local Clubs: Westchester Sports Car Club - http://www.wscc.org Poughkeepsie Sports Car Club - http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1027695/home.htm Fairfield Sports Car Club - http://www.fcscc.com SCCA Regions: Northern NJ Region - http://www.castle.net/~autoxcsp NY Region - http://www.newyorkregionscca.com/ Philly Region - http://www.castle.net/~autoxcsp You can race pretty much any weekend within a reasonable driving distance. All of these clubs have schedules posted on their web sites. Jesse Lipscher jesse@vgallery.com 88 CRX-Si (CSP) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 22:33:57 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: bmwuucdigest@list-server.net, bmw@digest.net, autox@autox.team.net, Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:32:11 PDT Subject: Autocross Event CANCELED The GIAC-BMW Autocross series is still on for the original dates, However By request of the Porsche Club Of america, The 2nd annual "My engene is in the right end" BMW vs. Porsche challange Event on the 16th of next month has been canceled, this event will be rescheduled to a date more suitable to both clubs, Please check reguarlly @ http://www.cyberconceptz.com/bmw for updates to the schedule in addition I would like to thank Air and Water enterprises For coming onboard as a sponsor and donating Dyno time to be given as Class Prizes Hope to see many of you there Jeff Lloyd From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 23:10:55 1999 From: LTImbeau@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:08:56 EDT Subject: Re: Oklahoma is a good place to be.... FROM! Just kidding! Actually I grew up in Muskogee, even surveyed a portion of a taxiway at Davis Field, and have been trying for a number of years to attend a Divisional Event there. Too long a tow though. Maybe when I retire. Larry Imbeau - DP Midget - I've been in Seattle too long, just heard that we've had 97 days of rain in the last 110 days and I didn't care. Question "What do people in Seattle do for summer?" Answer "Hold the National Tour on those two days" In a message dated 4/15/99 2:57:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, brnrubr@midusa.net writes: << Sam I beieve the reason it came about is due to the great Divisional turnouts we have had, and due to the Oklahoma people really working on SCCA thinking the midwest would support it. >> From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 04:32:16 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:30:32 -0500 Subject: Re: BFG Logo John Contact Sotorime, I'll bet Mark or Jean could help. G --------------- > Anybody know where I can grab a quick .GIF or .JPG image of the BFG > Team T/A logo? I'm trying to knock out the entry forms for our TLAC > (Trans-Louisiana Autocross Challenge) event here in Shreveport on May > 23rd. I've already tried the BFGtires site and their .GIF image is > one that changes colors. I need something static. Any ideas? --------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 05:08:56 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:09:13 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Actually, the demise of the PS Expo was aptly surnised by David Green: > Part of the problem is that the event was on the same day as our Solo II > here in Wichita (at McConnell AFB, our best site It seems that OKC also had a regional event. Both were point events that could have cost a competitor from either region their class standings not to attend. Scheduling an event on the same weekend as BOTH of the larger neighbor regions was not the best way to promote a "don't count for anything" type event such as this, IMO. The NeOkla Region has held a ProSolo format event in the late fall as one of their scheduled events for the last coupla years, a well attended event. So, I don't feel it is the ProSolo style that was the issue. Rather, the scheduling. And the non-points format - - (a neccesity only because of the late scheduling of the event by the National Office). Had this been a real ProSolo - - - - - - - - -????? Davis Field is an awesome site, but McConnell and Lloyd Noble in OKC ain't bad neither. Actually, any of the 3 could support a large PS course. Davis could have been up to 40 seconds per side, a size that most of the more recent "real" ProSolos could not match. That is one reason the site was chosen. I can't speak for my fellow members of the NeOkla Region - - My personal feelings are that this cancellation may be some kind of loss, but the loss is not NeOkla's. We will still have an event at Davis next weekend. The loss is to those that would rather make Oklahoma jokes than to attend an event at one of the flattest, smoothest, and best concrete sites in the Midwest Division. George --------------- In a message dated 4/15/99 2:57:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, brnrubr@midusa.net writes: << Sam I beieve the reason it came about is due to the great Divisional turnouts we have had, and due to the Oklahoma people really working on SCCA thinking the midwest would support it. >> From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 05:40:28 1999 From: Matt Murray To: Jorge Palacios Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:40:33 -0400 Subject: Re: First time Auto cross Fairfield County Sports Car Club has an event this Sunday in Waterbury, CT. Go to: http://www.fcscc.com or call the hot line at 203-926-8552 Jesse Lipscher wrote: > >need some information on who i should contact in my area, North Bergen > >New Jersey (North east NJ) so I can get started this month if anything.. > > Clubs within driving distanct to the Northern NJ area include: > > Local Clubs: > Westchester Sports Car Club - http://www.wscc.org > Poughkeepsie Sports Car Club - http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1027695/home.htm > Fairfield Sports Car Club - http://www.fcscc.com > > SCCA Regions: > Northern NJ Region - http://www.castle.net/~autoxcsp > NY Region - http://www.newyorkregionscca.com/ > Philly Region - http://www.castle.net/~autoxcsp > > You can race pretty much any weekend within a reasonable driving distance. > All of these clubs have schedules posted on their web sites. > > Jesse Lipscher > jesse@vgallery.com > 88 CRX-Si (CSP) -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 06:03:11 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: quad4fiero@webzone.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:01:06 EDT Subject: Muskogee Event Site (was ProSolo Expo Cancelled) In a message dated 4/16/1999 6:10:05 AM Central Daylight Time, quad4fiero@webzone.net writes: << The loss is to those that would rather make Oklahoma jokes than to attend an event at one of the flattest, smoothest, and best concrete sites in the Midwest Division. >> As an event site I can't recall a surface, or surface area, any better for what we do in my 20 years of playing this game. Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 06:15:24 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:10:21 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Maybe part of it is alot of us just don't understand it. I watched it at the Nats but still don't get how it really works? Also it seems not to be for Mod cars is this right? Mike B. TLS#1 (You meen they don't run em on dirt?) "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." wrote: > OK Eric, Speak for yourself, not the rest of us in the midwest. I really > love Pro Solo Format, but am out of town on business. > > Sam I beieve the reason it came about is due to the great Divisional > turnouts we have had, and due to the Oklahoma people really working on SCCA > thinking the midwest would support it. For some reason the Midwest people > have not supported Pro Solo's well. > > Rob > > Eric Linnhoff wrote: > > > >At 02:30 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Paula Whitney wrote: > > >>Due to lack of entries the ProSolo Expo has been cancelled. > > > > > >Doesn't surprise me. Oklahoma ain't exaclty what I would consider a > > >hot-bed of autoxing, and that's in the middle of nowhere for a > > non-points > > >event. Kinda wondered how the whole thing came about anyway........... > > >Seemed very weird to me. FWIW. > > >Sam Strano Jr. > > ======================== > > Well, ya see.........here in the Midwest we've had our fill of "drag" > > type events over the years. We prefer lots of corners in our autocross > > courses. ;^) > > > > That, and it just doesn't appeal to me personally. If'n I wanna drag > > race, I'll go to a drag strip. And if'n I wanna autocross, well, I'll > > just go to an autocross. > > > > ProSolo people are basically just wierd and confused people. :^P > > > > See you on course. > > > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > > #69DS TLS #13 > > '98 Neon R/T > > > > > > "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. > > I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. > > Ah, you reach down, between my legs, > > ease the seat back. > > She's blinding, I'm flying, > > Right behind the rear-view mirror now. > > Got the feeling, power steering, > > Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 06:40:26 1999 From: Jsfields@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:39:38 EDT Subject: Bob Strange I'm trying to get in touch with GS, Black Camaro Bob Strange. If anyone has contact info please notify me directly at jsfields@aol.com or jeffery.fields@wcom.com. Jeff Fields (formerly 38 GS) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 07:18:33 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: George Ryan Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:17:55 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled George Ryan wrote: > > Actually, the demise of the PS Expo was aptly surnised > by David Green: > > > Part of the problem is that the event was on the same day as our Solo II > > here in Wichita (at McConnell AFB, our best site > > It seems that OKC also had a regional event. Both were point > events that could have cost a competitor from either region their > class standings not to attend. And Dallas is having a regional event at its most convenient site. Plus the PCA was having its once a year two-day school. > Scheduling an event on the same > weekend as BOTH of the larger neighbor regions was not the best > way to promote a "don't count for anything" type event such as > this, IMO. True. I'd have actually signed up over all the other events because I am interested in trying out the ProSolo format. Unfortunately, I had other scheduling conflicts. It does seem unfortunate as I am sure the failure will be interpreted in a way such that it will be unlikely we'll see a ProSolo in this area of the country for a long time -- and may also reduce the odds of a major event being held at Muskogee -- also very unfortunate. > Davis Field is an awesome site, but McConnell and Lloyd Noble in > OKC ain't bad neither. Actually, any of the 3 could support a large > PS course. Davis could have been up to 40 seconds per side, > a size that most of the more recent "real" ProSolos could not match. > That is one reason the site was chosen. > > I can't speak for my fellow members of the NeOkla Region - - > My personal feelings are that this cancellation may be some kind > of loss, but the loss is not NeOkla's. We will still have an event at > Davis next weekend. Does NeOkla have a web site or any way for us north Texans to find out about your events?? Or would you rather us Texans stay in Texas? Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 07:21:58 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 99 09:19:44 -0500 Subject: Re: PT Cruiser Subject: PT Cruiser Author: "James Rogerson" wrote: >Bruce, the best part is the seats are made to be REMOVED. Just like >the Yugo sport! HEY ! Stop comparing Yugo's to that thing! ;) My car may be SOL, but it ain't as fuggly as that thing! Scott Phelps Team SOL #1 88 Yugo GVX EP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 07:25:44 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 99 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Seat needed Author: Mark Todd wrote: >My stock seat finally broke, giving me not only >the excuse but also the necessity of buying a new >seat. >If anyone has a new/used racing/sport seat which >could reasonably be used for short commuting distances, >please contact me directly ASAP. I've got the Racer >Wholesale catalog - is anyone else cheaper? >Also, if anyone has experience using a Kirkey or similar >seat on the street, please let me know how well it >works. Check out http://www.sportscar-parts.com I recently bought a corbeau forza from them for over $100 less than RW. Quite comfy, very supportive, and they shipped it for free. I was happy with their service. BTW - I have been using it on the street for a week, and it's comfy enough, just a hassle to get in and out of. Scott Phelps Team SOL #1 88 Yugo GVX EP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 07:35:52 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com, autox@autox.team.net, jwalter@ptra.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:35:45 PDT Subject: Re: PT Cruiser > Scott Phelps wrote: > HEY ! Stop comparing Yugo's to that thing! ;)My car may be SOL, > but it ain't as fuggly as that thing! > No, your Right, It's worse. Jeff Lloyd TLS "Lucky" #7 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 07:39:15 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:42:50 -0400 Subject: Re: PT Cruiser > HEY ! Stop comparing Yugo's to that thing! ;) My car may be SOL, > but it ain't as fuggly as that thing! Hey, it could be worse... Imagine someone autocrossing one of those GM minivans from the mid-80s that look exactly like a shuttlecraft from the U.S.S. Enterprise... I won't give the name because it had more than I can remember between the various GM divisions that sold it that I always get them all mixed up. I'd love to buy one of these someday and paint it up just like a Starfleet shuttlecraft... :) - Justin Teal SOL #4 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 07:48:59 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:44:57 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Sam Strano wrote: >> At 02:43 PM 4/15/99 -0500, Mike Bultemeier wrote: >> Ok Oklahoma guys! Hurt him! > Now, now. Calm down. My point was there wasn't any incentive > for me (and probably a lot of others) to drive to Oklahoma for > an event that didn't pay points or money. I kinda have to echo Sam here. OK is a long haul (although it's way shorter for us than Seattle or the LA events) and while prize money didn't have much bearing on our decision to skip it, the lack of series points did. On the one hand, it'd be nice to show the flag and have a "test" event where we could try some crazy stuff out without fear of losing points, but on the other hand, it's time off work and money spent towing with little to show for it. If we lose, we lose, but if we win, we lose more, if you follow. But what finally clinched it for us was that it's Tax Time, and having to give two countries a couple of litres of blood each kinda puts the kibosh on long-haul racing activities. (And as it turns out, my trailer is still tied up in a mile of red tape. Who'd have thought importing a trailer would be so much work?) If the race had been in July/August/September, we probably would have gone with or without points or money. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 08:11:17 1999 From: richj50@bit-net.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ES Celica question I'm starting to think about getting another daily driver/autox car to replace our 87 Prelude and I'd like to a get a car that would be PAX competitive, practical (about 30mpg highway) and reliable (like Honda/Toyota/Nissan). A 94+ Celica GT looks like a good bet but I'm not sure why the Celica seems to outperform the 94+ Acura Integra LS in ES when the Acura is lighter and more powerful. Is there a big wheel difference or suspension difference? Are there other cars that I should consider for relatively short money (like $10K or less)? What makes the Celica GT such a good ES car? Are there certain model years/option packages that are must have (sport package, coupe vs. liftback, etc...)? Lastly, any chance this car is going to get bumped to a faster class like DS or GS the way the ST model got bumped? Thanks, Rich Johnston 95 Z28 ESP 98 Prelude SH 87 Prelude DX w/184K mi p.s. Please cc me on replies. Thanks. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 09:00:13 1999 From: Darrin Disimo To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:57:09 -0400 Subject: Ft. Myers McKamey School CANCELED Hello, I just wanted to let everyone know the the McKamey School scheduled for May 8th and 9th in Ft. Myers Florida has been canceled. If you sent a check to me I will be mailing it back to you uncashed. Since I had to cancel the last 2 schools, I am not going to reschedule the school until probably sometime in November. Thank you to all the people that sent your money to me and tried to help get the school filled. Thanks, Darrin DiSimo email: ddisimo@gate.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 10:35:37 1999 From: "Ayer, John K" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:34:49 -0700 Subject: SP Restructure Proposal I wouldn't try to conjecture as to what they're doing... I really can't tell which way they're heading with this proposal. I see more damage than good in every class. It doesn't seem to benefit any of the people I've heard wishing for changes. I guess none of them wrote letters. I know I didn't 'cause I woulda just said how happy I am with my class since the RX-3's left (at their own request), and don't change a thing. Of course I COULD be accused of bias... Letter is under construction now, I suggest similar action from anyone who cares. Hope it's not too late. Kimball Ayer FIAT X1/9 #119 CSP?? P U ========================== Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:04:34 EDT From: Gemery@aol.com Subject: SP Restructure Proposal Time for some conjecture... by collecting the smaller turbo cars in the new DSP, is the SPAC trying to pave the way so FCD removal and blowoff valves will become legal? Or does that make too much sense? And why bother splitting the 1500 and 1300 X-1/9 between the new CSP & the new ESP? We already know the 1500 is 2SLO4CSP and that there isn't a class worth of difference between 1500 & 1300... George Emery gemery@aol.com http://members.aol.com/gemery From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 11:10:33 1999 From: Matt Murray To: nersolo@ner.org, richj50@bit-net.com, Teamdotnet Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:10:59 -0400 Subject: Re: ES Celica question You said it: Tire size. richj50@bit-net.com wrote: > Is there a big wheel > difference or suspension difference? > Thanks, > > Rich Johnston -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 11:43:53 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:36:23 -0500 Subject: Lots of used wheels and tires A firend of mine is dclearing out his wharehouse. He has been in the car buisness all of his life. This is a sample listing of whats available. If you do not see what you are looking for e-mail me I will see if it is in there. Most wheels have tires as well. 4 bolt Alum. Mustang Wheels and tires Many Jeep steel and aluminum wheels. One set of 4th Gen Camaro Wheels and Tires 16" 2 or 3 sets of GTA 3 gen Firebird wheels 16" Several 16" Dodge Stealth Wheel (Talon and Eclipse fit as well) GMC/Chevy Aluminum and Steel Wheels and tires several sets 15 and 16" 99 Tahoe Wheels with new original tires 17" Dodge Stealth Turbo wheels, several sets of used 245/45R17 tires Lots of used tires 245/50R16, 255/50R16 etc. Let me knwo if you see something or are looking for something. Time is of the essence we may buy some of the stuff but not all of it by any means. It needs to be moved this month Rob From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 13:15:09 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Neon G-Analyst Calibration nubmers? Howdy, Apparently I need calibration numbers for my car with the G-Analyst I'm finally getting around to installing.... Anyone gotta neon that's already figured this stuff out? Wanna share? Thanks! Mark (yes, Mr. Short, I'll be calling you in a week or so for Geez... :-) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 14:20:49 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Biplane wings on Mod cars? Hey all, At the Tour last weekend, I was watching Kei Josephson's beautiful A-Mod car run in first heat and was curious about the car's wing. For those who didn't see it, it has two multi-airfoil wings, one atop the other. I remember wondering what the rule book allows for wing area...I think it was sixty-something square feet viewed from the top, with some sort of height limit. It appeared that the total wing area was well over 60 sq.ft. but viewed from the top it would be within limits. So, stacking wings like this is kosher? How much do you have to separate them so that they don't reduce each other's effectiveness? I'm picturing a Fokker Triplane A-Mod appearing in the future, complete with Iron Cross livery... jes' curious, Craig Blome Spokes/TAMSCC/TLS#91 Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:40:26 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:40:14 PDT Subject: TLS vs. TSOL AYER MA. National Tour I know the appointed TSOL spokesperson Justin Hughes, will be there And myself Supporting TLS anyone else able to make it? loser by pax has to buy dinner for the wining team Jeff Lloyd Team Laughing Stock "Often Imitated, Never duplicated" "were better then TSOL, Heck were better then Huck and chuck" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:17:47 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: "Brian M Kennedy" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:18:09 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled I can no longer speak for the region, I stepped down as chair for the Solo Program this year. But as a NeOkla member, I can say we let ANYONE (even Texans) play with us. Our webpage, with photos and schedule, is: http://www.neokla-scca.org George ---------- Brian M Kennedy wrote: > And Dallas is having a regional event at its most convenient site. > Plus the PCA was having its once a year two-day school. > > True. I'd have actually signed up over all the other events because > I am interested in trying out the ProSolo format. Unfortunately, > I had other scheduling conflicts. > > It does seem unfortunate as I am sure the failure will be interpreted > in a way such that it will be unlikely we'll see a ProSolo in this > area of the country for a long time -- and may also reduce the odds > of a major event being held at Muskogee -- also very unfortunate. > > Does NeOkla have a web site or any way for us north Texans to find out > about your events?? Or would you rather us Texans stay in Texas? > > > Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:42:36 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:43:25 -0600 Subject: Oklahoma National Event... Although it was very difficult to get the support required for our 'test' event for this part of the county (mostly because of local regions with events, and the lack of print-time in Sportscar..etc..etc..) it will be greatly more difficult to get a National event considered for the middle-USA next year as long as the AutoX list continues to put a negative spin on Oklahoma in general. "Who'd drive there?" Isn't positive. Please, if you have -real- concerns about an Oklahoma/Central based event, let the SCCA know about it. For the rest of you that are not willing to drive to either coast for a National Pro Solo event, your support will be greatly appreciated by just letting the Home Office know that you -would- seriously consider a Midwest event should they try to do another next year. I belive strongly that with enough support NOW, next year we can get into the points and contingency race that we were unable to fit into this year. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 18:32:04 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: "Craig Blome" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:02:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Biplane wings on Mod cars? Hi Craig, that car was originally built by Jim McKamey, and Trudi ran if for several years. It was black with green lettering and graphics before Kie bought it...It is a gorgous red, and much better looking than before. I would assume that all is legal.... Phil O. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 4:21 PM Subject: Biplane wings on Mod cars? >Hey all, > >At the Tour last weekend, I was watching Kei >Josephson's beautiful A-Mod car run in first heat and >was curious about the car's wing. For those who >didn't see it, it has two multi-airfoil wings, one >atop the other. I remember wondering what the rule >book allows for wing area...I think it was >sixty-something square feet viewed from the top, with >some sort of height limit. It appeared that the total >wing area was well over 60 sq.ft. but viewed from the >top it would be within limits. > >So, stacking wings like this is kosher? How much do >you have to separate them so that they don't reduce >each other's effectiveness? I'm picturing a Fokker >Triplane A-Mod appearing in the future, complete with >Iron Cross livery... > >jes' curious, >Craig Blome >Spokes/TAMSCC/TLS#91 >Austin, TX > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 18:32:39 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: "Brian M Kennedy" , "George Ryan" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:19:32 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled I can think of at least 8 Texas Region folks who were ready to go..... Phil O. > >And Dallas is having a regional event at its most convenient site. >Plus the PCA was having its once a year two-day school. > >Does NeOkla have a web site or any way for us north Texans to find out >about your events?? Or would you rather us Texans stay in Texas? > > >Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 18:59:21 1999 From: JTHOR11@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net, neon@iastate.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:58:28 EDT Subject: Numbers for sale For Sale: Digital Magnetic Autocross Numbers Any number can be made from 01 to 199 on both sides of your car. 10" high by 5" wide with 1.25" stroke. All numbers come in white (limited amount of black is available) but are paintable to any color you need. Neon tested to over 85 mph at Heartland Park with no blow off. $25 for a complete set of 4 numbers plus 2 #1's shipping included. E-mail me for more info. Whoomah!! Jan Gerber Omaha, NE From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 19:02:51 1999 From: "David Green" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:02:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Oklahoma National Event... I think that may be the key also. The event almost needs to be planned sometime this year so that everyone can schedule around it (at least a date set, maybe by the end of the year). I think we (Wichita) had a schedule set before we heard about the event (someone correct me if that's wrong). That may be true for the other regions also. I know a bunch of people would have been interested in going including myself. I also don't believe the event really needed the support of a majority of the nation wide Pro Solo participants, although it would certainly be great if they did attend. There's nothing like getting beaten by the best! :-) As far as having the event in Muskogee, it is one of the better sites in the midwest. A large smooth concrete surface that is quite adequate for this type of event. David Green >I belive strongly that with enough support NOW, next year we can get into >the points and contingency race that we were unable to fit into this year. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 19:13:46 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Craig Blome" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:58:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Biplane wings on Mod cars? McKamey beat you to it. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 3:21 PM Subject: Biplane wings on Mod cars? >Hey all, > >At the Tour last weekend, I was watching Kei >Josephson's beautiful A-Mod car run in first heat and >was curious about the car's wing. For those who >didn't see it, it has two multi-airfoil wings, one >atop the other. I remember wondering what the rule >book allows for wing area...I think it was >sixty-something square feet viewed from the top, with >some sort of height limit. It appeared that the total >wing area was well over 60 sq.ft. but viewed from the >top it would be within limits. > >So, stacking wings like this is kosher? How much do >you have to separate them so that they don't reduce >each other's effectiveness? I'm picturing a Fokker >Triplane A-Mod appearing in the future, complete with >Iron Cross livery... > >jes' curious, >Craig Blome >Spokes/TAMSCC/TLS#91 >Austin, TX > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 19:48:19 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "autox" , "Jeffrey Lloyd" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:39:27 -0400 Subject: Re: TLS vs. TSOL >AYER MA. National Tour > >I know the appointed TSOL spokesperson Justin Hughes, will be there >And myself Supporting TLS anyone else able to make it? Spokesperson? Me? When did I get appointed as spokesperson? :) Oh yeah, I remember - it was when I opened my big mouth... :) Since I live near there, I'm there for sure. I'd been planning on at least watching anyway on Saturday, though there's a BMW event on Sunday... Hmmm, we'll have to see about that one. Hey Scott, you were talking about hitting an event together sometime - wanna bring the Yugo down to Devens for Nationals? :) >loser by pax has to buy dinner for the wining team Now that's a challenge if I ever heard one... Bringing food into it and all... >:) >Team Laughing Stock "Often Imitated, Never duplicated" Imitated? Nah, we're not as stuck up on filth and duct tape as you. >:) >"were better then TSOL, Heck were better then Huck and chuck" We'll see about that in June... >:) - Justin Hughes Team SOL #4 "He who would cross the Sea of Fate Must answer me these questions twenty-eight..." From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 19:52:41 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: "Phillip S. Osborne" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:53:12 -0500 Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled Maybe we should hold our own ProSolo - - - We could show the National Office that we in the Midwest can support a ProSolo as well as we can a National Tour - - if they only gave us a chance!! If the Midwest were to be given a "real" chance, we would have been offered a full blown PS instead of a "no-points" event that was doomed from the start. (How many "pros" would bother with a no-points event, in the first place?) Think we could borrow a Xmas tree from a dragstrip somewhere? G ---------- > From: Phillip S. Osborne > To: Brian M Kennedy ; George Ryan > Cc: autox@autox.team.net; neokla@tgn.net > Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled > Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 6:19 PM > > I can think of at least 8 Texas Region folks who were ready to go..... > > Phil O. > > > > > >And Dallas is having a regional event at its most convenient site. > >Plus the PCA was having its once a year two-day school. > > > >Does NeOkla have a web site or any way for us north Texans to find out > >about your events?? Or would you rather us Texans stay in Texas? > > > > > >Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 19:58:16 1999 From: N61WP@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:57:22 EDT Subject: What is Pro Solo? Could someone explain what exactly a Pro Solo course is? I just read something about autoX and drag racing, and I'm really confused, (nothing new). ThanX, James Coronato Fake Healey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 20:27:22 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: "Team.Net" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:26:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Mirror Khana XXV Flyers/entry forms for Mirror Khana XXV are in the mail! This will be the 25th renewal of the Mirror Khana in Salina, Ks. Dates are June 5-6. This is the no-clocks, heads-up, one-on-one, two-cars-at-a-time showdown autox. Nobody exists but you and that other car, and that's all you have to beat. This time. we've doubled the entry fee this year -- to $30 -- because this year we will feed you a Brookville Hotel chicken dinner on Saturday night and give every entrant a Mirror Khana XXV tee shirt (for an extra $7 you can get a polo instead). Entry is limited to 140 cars. If you ran a Mirror Khana in the past three years (and haven't moved) you should be on the mailing list to get the flyer. Packets of flyers also were sent to the Solo Chair (or RE) of most of the nearby and not-too-distant Regions. But if you want to be sure to get one, e-mail me a snail-mail address and I will have one in the mail to you ASAP. --Rocky Entriken From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 20:41:49 1999 From: Dick Rasmussen To: N61WP@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:41:51 -0400 Subject: Re: What is Pro Solo? At 09:57 PM 4/16/99 EDT, N61WP@aol.com wrote: >Could someone explain what exactly a Pro Solo course is? I just read >something about autoX and drag racing, and I'm really confused, (nothing new). >ThanX, >James Coronato >Fake Healey > Picture two, mirror image autocross courses. Place the start line of each course next to each other at a safe distance. Use drag race type "christmas tree" starting lights and staging. Time starts when the lights go green. Swap sides to equalize potential best times. Give each competitor six runs on each side total for the weekend (2 Sat am, 2 Sat pm, and 2 Sun am) and determine overall position in class by adding the one best time on each course together. Then, run a "handicap challenge" Sunday pm based on best times in each class as the "dial in". Various versions of challenge (Pro, Open, Ladies). Great fun! Might be better described on SCCA's web site . . . Dick Rasmussen CM 85 85 Van Diemen RF-85 Formula Ford From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 20:56:31 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'neokla@tgn.net'" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:56:05 -0500 Subject: RE: ProSolo Expo Cancelled To borrow an Xmas tree is "easy" in theory, its the timing/syncho hardware thats the "bitch" about it. Ive run the software for years when I ran the HRP tower in Houston, and gained the credentials to run the system at NHRA national events too.. Im sure we can build a simple system for about a grand if we had to. Just simple prestage/full-stage, an accurate half second timer and external relay control, and programming to catch red-light..all via a parellel port. > -----Original Message----- > From: George Ryan [SMTP:quad4fiero@webzone.net] > Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 8:53 PM > To: Phillip S. Osborne; Brian M Kennedy > Cc: autox@autox.team.net; neokla@tgn.net > Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled > > Maybe we should hold our own ProSolo - - - > > We could show the National Office that we in the Midwest > can support a ProSolo as well as we can a National Tour - - > if they only gave us a chance!! > > If the Midwest were to be given a "real" chance, we would > have been offered a full blown PS instead of a "no-points" > event that was doomed from the start. (How many "pros" would > bother with a no-points event, in the first place?) > > Think we could borrow a Xmas tree from a dragstrip somewhere? > > G > > ---------- > > From: Phillip S. Osborne > > To: Brian M Kennedy ; George Ryan > > > Cc: autox@autox.team.net; neokla@tgn.net > > Subject: Re: ProSolo Expo Cancelled > > Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 6:19 PM > > > > I can think of at least 8 Texas Region folks who were ready to go..... > > > > Phil O. > > > > > > > > > >And Dallas is having a regional event at its most convenient site. > > >Plus the PCA was having its once a year two-day school. > > > > > >Does NeOkla have a web site or any way for us north Texans to find out > > >about your events?? Or would you rather us Texans stay in Texas? > > > > > > > > >Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 22:51:45 1999 From: Ron Madurski To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:51:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: need a load carried? : : :I am going to be going from Clarksburg West Virginia to Tulsa OK to pick :up one of my cars and bring it back to Clarksburg. If someone has a :vehicle that they'd like hauled out that way let me know and we'll work :something out. I have a dual axle 16' open trailer. It is a heavy duty :trailer easily capable of hauling a full size pickup. In it's previous :life it was used to pull a backhoe around the countryside. : :I have one more car to go back for probably late May or Mid-June so if :something comes up just let me know. I won't charge much unless I have :to go WAY out of my way to pick it up or drop it off. : :See ya. -- Ron Madurski rmadursk@galstar.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 08:22:12 1999 From: "Chris and Per Schroeder" To: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:25:19 -0500 Subject: RE: Estock Celica Question It's not just tire size.... Things that the Celica has going for it (ST and GT) Good camber adjustability (up to 2.5 neg possible, only 2ish needed) Well thought out suspension design, doesn't go 'positive' as quickly as other strut suspensions low height (51" tall) wide rims (6" for the ST, 7" for the GT..compared to 5.5 for the Acura) TORQUE (145ft/lbs for the GT) short gearing for the GT (2nd runs out at 54) which is both good and bad. Weights aren't bad, 2400ish for the ST, 2580ish for the GT (the 2790 figure that everyone sees is the convertible) Reasonably well thought out spring rates. the car just doesn't roll like a Estock integra. FWIW, about half the time I'd rather have my ST back, and the other half of the time I like my GT better..but it's got to have some sort of section that slows the ST down. There are no plans to move the GT to D *IF* the ST moves to E (We on the SCAC are still requesting member comment on this) Per Estock Celica GT SCAC member From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 08:51:43 1999 From: Jeff Cashmore To: autox list Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:56:25 -0500 Subject: Various "Could someone explain what exactly a Pro Solo course is?" See http://www.scca.org/amateur/prosolo2/index.html for more info "A 94+ Celica GT looks like a good bet but I'm not sure why the Celica seems to outperform the 94+ Acura Integra LS in ES when the Acura is lighter and more powerful. " This is where Per jumps in with "got torque"? Other prominent ES cars include the older Saturn SC2, SOHC Neon, Subaru Impreza, Honda CRX/Civic (the new SI has 160 hp, but only 111 ft lbs torque, see http://www.honda1999.com/cars/civic_coupe/features.html for more info). "Is there a big wheel difference or suspension difference?" 14x7's and they still can't get all the power down. "any chance this car is going to get bumped to a faster class like DS or GS the way the ST model got bumped?" Um, the ST is still in HS. What's all this Celica ST to GS noise I'm hearing? First Lorenzo from NAP looks at one events results and concludes that ALL of the Celica's should go to GS since all 3 classes had similar times, and now this. FYI, weather & course design play a large part in PAX numbers. RJ's courses are great but tend to be handling courses with lots of slaloms & mid speed corners. Morning runs are usually in cooler weather and sometimes have to deal with left over puddles. To answer your question, no, the Celica GT will still be in ES next year. Now, there are a number of PROPOSED class changes for 2000. Check your Dec 98/Apr 99 Fastrack (can we get more of these online at http://www.scca.org/news/tech/seb/index.html ?). The Miata 1.6 MIGHT move to CS, the Nissans MAY move to ES, etc. Nothing is carved in stone. Write a letter, yadda, yadda... "Are there other cars that I should consider for relatively short money (like $10K or less)?" SS = early C4 Corvette AS = 2nd gen MR2 Turbo, Porsche 944 Turbo, Porsche 944S2 BS = 94+ Miata R CS = 2nd gen NA MR2, Porsche 924S/944 DS = Neon ACR ES = SOHC Neon, 94+ Celica GT, Saturn SC2, Civic/CRX FS = 89-95 Camaro/Firebird/Mustang GS = 6 cyl 93+ Probe/MX6, 3.8L Camaro/Firebird, 92-96 Prelude HS = 4 cyl 93+ Probe/MX6, 94-95 Celica ST, Honda Civic A buddy of mine is looking for a 911 and showed me some obscene deals on Porsche's (944's, 914's) in San Diego, (Wisconsinite's like rust free cars). Go to http://www.traderpub.com/TraderPub/VehicleTrader/VehicleTrader.html and search on Porsche, $12k and under. You could have a pair of them for the price of a used SUV/Minivan! Hope that helps. Jeff "taking a weekend off" Cashmore From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 10:27:46 1999 From: "Jim Fossum" To: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:24:02 -0400 Subject: McKamey School If anyone is interested, there are still a few spots open for the phase-2 school in Albany, NY on April 22nd. (The ph-1s are full). Thanks, Jim From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 14:26:33 1999 From: WHEELSPNR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:25:19 EDT Subject: StLouis Event Cancelled- April 18th GATEWAY INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY DID NOT FULFILL THEIR OBLIGATION AND SIGNED CONTRACT !!!!!!!!!! St Louis Region's Contract has NOT been honored --- The surface we were stage our Event is unusable. DO NOT SHOW UP AT THE RACETRACE SUNDAY !! Needless to say, the Board is not pleased with this situation and will advise everyone in the near future if it can be rescheduled or what !! This is NOT the Solo Board's fault --- Anyone recieving this - please call your friends and pass this on !!!!! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 16:35:11 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:34:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: spam: "World's Fastest Pinto" avail The locally, and Nationally proclaimed, World's Fastest Pinto" is now available for a very modest price. Ted Lewis is the owner and builder of this car. He is the 2nd owner of this AZ vehicle, and has owned it since 1993. He had it at Nationals during the RX3 heyday and finished mid pack. He DID win the San Diego National Tour in 1998 however. The only reason he is selling it is due to the recent (today) purchase of a 1965 Lotus Elan (oooooh nooooo). Specifics: 1971 2 L, 4 spd Weber header Konis (x4) Alum flywheel 13x9 Keisers Hoosiers mounted, xtra set of 13x7 American racing mags Cobra race seat 3" lap belt Flowmaster Beautiful black paint after he acquired it (he is a master body/paint man, so it is nice) AZ car since new the best thing? Just $2,000 win tomorrow with this DSP car Ted is not email endowed, so you'll have to call him at home: 602-876-8856 AZ thanks, jim rohn From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 17:35:53 1999 From: John Galligan To: autocross Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:33:48 -0500 Subject: TV schedule Has anyone seen the schedule for the new racing series featuring the ladies, i believe the first event is tomorrow. On T.V.? Would appreciate any info. John -- John Galligan galligan@gulftel.com SCCA-Gulf Coast Region Cavalier Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 18:39:21 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Jim & Marilyn Rohn Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:34:48 -0700 Subject: Re: spam: "World's Fastest Pinto" avail Ooooh, noooo, not another Elan from Arizona! I guess what you learn on a Pinto can be applied to a Lotus. :-) --Pat Kelly Jim & Marilyn Rohn wrote: > The locally, and Nationally proclaimed, World's Fastest Pinto" is now > available for a very modest price. > > Ted Lewis is the owner and builder of this car. He is the 2nd owner of this > AZ vehicle, and has owned it since 1993. He had it at Nationals during the > RX3 heyday and finished mid pack. He DID win the San Diego National Tour in > 1998 however. The only reason he is selling it is due to the recent (today) > purchase of a 1965 Lotus Elan (oooooh nooooo). > > Specifics: > 1971 > 2 L, 4 spd > Weber > header > Konis (x4) > Alum flywheel > 13x9 Keisers > Hoosiers mounted, xtra set of 13x7 American racing mags > Cobra race seat > 3" lap belt > Flowmaster > Beautiful black paint after he acquired it > (he is a master body/paint man, so it is nice) > AZ car since new > > the best thing? > > Just $2,000 > > win tomorrow with this DSP car > > Ted is not email endowed, so you'll have to call him at home: > > 602-876-8856 > AZ > > thanks, jim rohn From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 19:17:36 1999 From: drpepper To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:16:49 -0400 Subject: helmet help! I haven't gotten my Solo II rulebook yet in the mail and I need to know what the helmet criteria are. What type specifically do I need to get for solo ii per scca guidelines? Respond directly to me so as not to clog the list. Thanks! A newbie trying to do things right... Ed George 94 Duster - GS drpepper@nacs.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 19:34:33 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "drpepper" , Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:31:52 -0700 Subject: Re: helmet help! But, if it doesn't go to the List, how will we avoid lots of duplicate answers?! :) "4.3.A. Helmets "Helmets meeting the following standards must be worn while on course: All helmets meeting the current or two immediately preceding Snell Foundation standards (SA or M) are acceptable. For 1999 this includes Snell 1995, Snell 1990, or Snell 1985. Competitors requiring helmets of sizes larger than 7-3/4, which may not be available with Snell '85 approval, may use Snell '75 helmets until further notice. For maximum protection, helmets must fit securely and should provide adequate peripheral vision. The chin strap must be securely fastened. Loaner helmets should be available to vehicle occupants not having their own." Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII-1C: ESP/FSP/?+IS2 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0-3J: ST+IS3 Team S.O.L. Member #2 -----Original Message----- From: drpepper To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 6:16 PM Subject: helmet help! >I haven't gotten my Solo II rulebook yet in the mail and I need to know >what the helmet criteria are. What type specifically do I need to get for >solo ii per scca guidelines? Respond directly to me so as not to clog the >list. Thanks! > >A newbie trying to do things right... >Ed George >94 Duster - GS >drpepper@nacs.net > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 19:59:21 1999 From: "Glenn Duensing" To: "sc-f-body" , "autox" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:56:04 -0700 Subject: Rose Bowl Autox CANCELED The April 18th Autox at Pasadena's Rose Bowl has been canceled due to noise problem in the area. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 20:35:15 1999 From: SSUCSY@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:34:31 EDT Subject: ProSolo Expo Cancelled I don't think we should assume that there will be no Pro Solo scheduled in Oklahoma next year as a result of the cancellation this year. I'm from West Texas, and was one of the people registered and ready to go. Several people I talked to weren't going because it wasn't a points event, or because the people who weren't going because it wasn't a points event, weren't going. I wasn't aware that the event also conflicted with regional events scheduled in nearby regions. Hopefully the people in Denver will realize that this did not give the event a fair shot. For many of us in the central part of the country, the Pro Solo schedule is not very favorable. For me, it would be a two day drive each way to the nearest events, other than the finale (Wendover, Utah, and Peru, Indiana). Put me down for next year in Oklahoma. Steve Sucsy AS 92 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 11:09:24 1999 From: tooltime1@mindspring.com To: 914@rennlist.org, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:33:02 -0500 Subject: SOLO 1 I was interested in running a few SOLO 1 events this year. DO I have to have a roll cage and Fire system? WHat about to do the Solo 1 drivers schools? What kind of safety equipment is required? What about PCA/ BMWCCA drivers ed events, what type of safety equipement is required for them? Brett Whisenant Wizard Motorsports #73 914 "STREET IS NEAT" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 12:59:22 1999 From: rikracer To: tooltime1@mindspring.com, Autox Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:01:42 -0700 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 Subject: SOLO 1 >I was interested in running a few SOLO 1 events this year. DO I have to >have a roll cage and Fire system? WHat about to do the Solo 1 drivers >schools? What kind of safety equipment is required? What about PCA/ >BMWCCA drivers ed events, what type of safety equipement is required for >them? > >Brett Whisenant >Wizard Motorsports >#73 914 >"STREET IS NEAT" > A closed car only requires a SCCA approved bar, not a cage (but I personally prefer a cage for driving on race tracks) and a fire extinguisher. Driver safety equip is the same as racing, full suit (single layer with Nomex underware or multi layer), current helmet ( I believe a step above Solo2, don't have my GCR handy), shoes, gloves, 5 point harness. Many BMW/Porsche/Etc type events do not have these requirements or have varying requirements depending on the class they put you in. Some require nothing more than a seat belt and helmet. But again, I personally would not go out on a race course with other cars (many with unknown levels of high speed driving experience) without at least a roll bar. Rick Brown AP 240Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 17:23:39 1999 From: "Chris and Per Schroeder" To: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:26:40 -0500 Subject: RE: Various Cashmo mentioned the article in NAP by "Lorenzo" in which he stated that all Celicas should be in G based merely on the results of Nats. I'd like to point out that in another part of that article, Lorenzo mentions Volkswagen GTi's all being classed in "E", and points out that the 96+ GTi is the same thing as a Golf GL for the most part (and I agree, as I had the "Sport" version in 95 and 96). This listing in Fasttrack is in error and will be corrected. The A3 4 cylinder cars will all remain in H, and should never have been listed that way. Something got lost in translation between conference call and publishing. (standard committee member disclaimers apply) Per From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 18:13:51 1999 From: LARRY97ACR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:12:58 EDT Subject: Neon struts-front I need to find the template for the grinding area for 98+ Neon ACR front struts that allows them to be grinded to meet 97 ACR camber adjustments. It seem my dealer can not find any 97 ACR struts in existence and I will have to grind the replacement struts he has. Tks Larry M From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 18:20:29 1999 From: Popsracr@aol.com To: schroede@interaccess.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:19:09 EDT Subject: Re: Various In a message dated 4/18/99 4:24:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, schroede@interaccess.com writes: > Cashmo mentioned the article in NAP by "Lorenzo" in which he stated that > all Celicas should be in G based merely on the results of Nats. > Such reasoning for car classing is obviously from a miopic and naive point of view. I read that article too and he thinks ES is going to turn into the Celica class which would be far from reality. I wonder if he's been watching as Brolliar placed so well with his Neon season after season and a certain Saturn that has also done so well yet uncertain to return. Sure the ST driven by Rick, Jeff or other competent driver(s) and the MX-6 with Shields, Jacobs, Williams and Blume would make it interesting (not to mention Hollis). Once the reclassing goes into effect I think the ST and MX-6 4 cyl will suddenly become very scarcely seen running ES anywhere. Jim From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 19:10:53 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: g-Force alignment advice? Hey all, With 31 runs on my g-Force tires (205/50R15's on a '96 Miata) and nowhere near the recommended static camber, I decided to give the tread a good look. It seemed at first that the wear is pretty even across the tread, but on closer inspection the very outer shoulder is getting more than its share. The "holographic tread" has been obliterated right up to the edge of the shoulder, where on the inside shoulder you can still see the last 1/2" or so of it. The wear indicator holes in the tread grooves at the edge of the shoulder have just started wearing away the first "stairstep", which looks like about 1/32" to my untrained eye. The front and rear tires look more or less identical; fwiw I can only get -1.0 degrees camber in front, about -2.0 in the rear, and that was before the Koni 'lift kit'. Is this normal for this tire? Would more negative camber help at all? The car seems a little more tail happy in sweepers than on the 225 R1's I used to run, but I'm thinking that's more a driver than car problem. How far should I let the shoulder wear go before mounting the tires inside out? tia, Craig Blome Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 20:17:11 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Popsracr@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:11:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Various How about some rebuttals in real print? Address to North American Pylon at this e-mail address. --Pat Kelly North American Pylon Popsracr@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/18/99 4:24:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > schroede@interaccess.com writes: > > > Cashmo mentioned the article in NAP by "Lorenzo" in which he stated that > > all Celicas should be in G based merely on the results of Nats. > > > > Such reasoning for car classing is obviously from a miopic and naive point of > view. I read that article too and he thinks ES is going to turn into the > Celica class which would be far from reality. I wonder if he's been watching > as Brolliar placed so well with his Neon season after season and a certain > Saturn that has also done so well yet uncertain to return. Sure the ST > driven by Rick, Jeff or other competent driver(s) and the MX-6 with Shields, > Jacobs, Williams and Blume would make it interesting (not to mention Hollis). > > > Once the reclassing goes into effect I think the ST and MX-6 4 cyl will > suddenly become very scarcely seen running ES anywhere. > > Jim From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 22:04:34 1999 From: Jesse Lipscher To: "Jim Fossum" , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:03:44 -0400 Subject: Re: McKamey School I beleive that the date is May 22nd and NOT April 22 for the Albany McKamey School. Jesse. At 12:24 PM 4/17/99 -0400, Jim Fossum wrote: >If anyone is interested, there are still a few spots open for the phase-2 >school in Albany, NY on April 22nd. (The ph-1s are full). > >Thanks, >Jim > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 18 22:48:36 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:46:54 -0500 Subject: TLS dukes it out in Tally! In a nasty turn of events, two Team Laughing Stock members were witnessed openly brawling at the Dixie Region SCCA event in Tallahassee Florida this morning. Opening punches were thrown by yours truly in the form of 76 and 75 second runs on a sadistically tight course. Karl Rikert answered my volley with some vicious uppercuts ending with a jab of 73.308s. During the second heat, I took a mighty blow (73.300 raw time) that caught only air as I killed the infamous Kenny cone right out of the gate, and followed that with a hook to the jaw in the form of a 72.9s run. Dazed but not out of it, Karl got back up and threw two stiff blows that whiffed by my unfazed (yet sunburned) pate. It was not to be an Alfa day. Thanks to the Dixie Region for another great event! Team Laughing Stock takes FTD AND SFTD!!!! David Hawkins 85 Mr2 ITA/CSP TLS #15 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 05:39:44 1999 From: John Eagan To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 01:01:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Oklahoma > we had some exchange students from france. They all thought they we're > gonna see cowboys and indians. They we're quite shocked to get to Tulsa and > see that it's a large city with over 650,000 people :p~ > ...and half of them are either cowboys or indians. Oh, and the indians all dress like cowboys. Also a place where the financial spectrum runs from the grimmest dirt poor squalid poverty to a downtown where people won't even notice you and your wife with the ankle length fur coat as you climb out of your Rolls. (disclaimer:I lived there about a half a year roughly 20 years ago, who knows what may have changed :-) Visiting Muskogee left me with the impression that, claims to the contrary by Merle Haggard nonwithstanding, it's a place where not even squares can have a ball. On the other hand, reading that they have a fine autocross site there, maybe things have changed there as well. For all I know maybe people light big joints on Main Street with their draft cards these days. :-) JLE From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 06:10:09 1999 From: Daniel Thomas <"dlthomas@chanute-ks.com"@chanute-ks.com> To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:05:38 -0500 Subject: Sunfire Hi, Does anyone else autox a Pontiac Sunfire? I have only ran 5 autocrosses in this car and have yet to see another one. I could use some info on tire and alignment settings. Thanks. Danny Thomas Pontiac Sunfire GT (GS) ???Future Autox Car??? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 06:16:29 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:59:40 -0400 Subject: NOPI S2 #2 Hey all, We survived event #2 which turned out to be a February autocross in April BRRRRR! We had 97 drivers (rough count) on an average 50 second course which took longer than usual to run because we could only put 2 cars on course at a time. Several folks came from out of town to tune up for the SE Divisional coming in 2 weeks. Speaking of SEDIV, it still isn't too late to register for the May 1-2 event happening at Atlanta Motor Speedway in Hampton. You can register on-line and pay when you get to the AMS that weekend. Simply go to our website at and jump to the SEDIV website from there. Also, you have one more chance to tune up for the SEDIV by running here in Atlanta NEXT weekend. That's right, April 25th, we're doing it again for points event #3 (I know, I know we are gluttons for punishment). With tongue haning out and bags under my eyes from lack of sleep, See you Sunday. Ben Thatcher Atlanta SCCA Solo II co-chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 06:31:06 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 99 08:28:42 -0500 Subject: Re: TLS vs. TSOL I'm there, dude! It will be the first showdown between the affable Team SOL, and the much Vaunted TLS........ Anybody else run in EP? ;) It's only about 2 hours from the house, so we'll be there. We'll be SOL, but we'll be there. Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP Team SOL #1 Subject: TLS vs. TSOL Author: "Jeffrey Lloyd" at GDT-UNIX Date: 4/16/99 3:40 PM AYER MA. National Tour I know the appointed TSOL spokesperson Justin Hughes, will be there And myself Supporting TLS anyone else able to make it? loser by pax has to buy dinner for the wining team Jeff Lloyd Team Laughing Stock "Often Imitated, Never duplicated" "were better then TSOL, Heck were better then Huck and chuck" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 06:51:38 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:46:26 -0500 Subject: Kansas City event april 25th Can anyone out there tell me the location of the April 25th KC event? Several of us have been out of the loop for the past few weeks putting the "Lotus from HELL" back together. Its back together and ready to do damage(Hopefully not to itself as in the past). Let me know about the event on the 25th. Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 07:11:47 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: G-Analyst downloading software? Howdy, Anyone got the G-Analyst downloading software? Maybe it was called GLogger? I got mine secondhand and I seem to have lost the zip file of the software... Oh, and ideally this would run under NT4.0... If you know that it doesn't, please let me know so that I can dredge up a dos/95 laptop.. Thanks! Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 07:20:03 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:58:25 -0600 Subject: OT: Holley carbs I have an older Holley 4 barrel that is leaking out of the secondary bowl. Someone rebuilt it and it is still leaking out of the secondary. Leaks on the throttle linkage side right under where the silver tube passes between the bowls. Little hole there. Is this an overflow and the float is stuck? Any and all help appreciated. Thanks! Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster (damn, exhaust systems can take a long itme) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 09:30:16 1999 From: Brian Priebe To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:26:33 -0400 Subject: Bob Tunnell Does anyone know what Bob Tunnell's current email address is? I need to fing out because he is a big punk!!!! ;-) --Brian Priebe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 09:50:54 1999 From: "I.Mannix" To: Brian Priebe Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:49:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Bob Tunnell >Does anyone know what Bob Tunnell's current email address is? > >I need to fing out because he is a big punk!!!! ;-) > >--Brian Priebe bobt@propartsusa.net I'd heard that about you, ehk, I mean, oh, geez, I'll shut up.... I.Mannix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 09:58:56 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Brian Priebe" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:59:48 -0500 Subject: Was:Re: Bob Tunnell, Now McKamey school >Does anyone know what Bob Tunnell's current email address is? > >I need to fing out because he is a big punk!!!! ;-) > >--Brian Priebe ========================== Well Brian, you may drive well, but ya better take a few more spelling classes. ;^) Hey all, if you haven't already done so, I can HIGHLY recommend taking the McKamey autocross classes. Yes, even if Brian is one of the instructors I still recommend it. He drives well even with 3 passengers and only one hand on the wheel. Thanks to Brian, Joe Goeke and Ken Mitchell for taking time out to instruct us in these classes. Oh and as a side note, you actually can wear out and cord a Toyo tire!!! Now if I can just remember what they taught me and keen my head outta my backside at the next event. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 10:47:23 1999 From: Brad M To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:47:24 -0400 Subject: RE: sunfire Danny, I own a 99 Cavalier Z24. not a sunfire but it is still a "J" body. I am going to autoX'ing this weekend (hopefully). I know that there are others out there who Drive "J" bodies at AutoX. There is some information about it at www.j-body.org There is also a mailing list that is for "J" bodies and there is a lot of information about modifications,autoX'ing and anything else having to do with "J"'s. Where are you at and what year is your car? I will try and get some e-mail addy's of fellow autoX'ers for you. Brad http://drive.to/Z24 Daniel Thomas wrote: Hi, Does anyone else autox a Pontiac Sunfire? I have only ran 5 autocrosses in this car and have yet to see another one. I could use some info on tire and alignment settings. Thanks. Danny Thomas Pontiac Sunfire GT (GS) ???Future Autox Car??? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 10:49:07 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:30:48 -0500 Subject: brake pad info ...need some help, does anyone know of/seen a list comparing brake pad friction and temperature range for race pads (carbotech, hawk, perf friction) and street pads (raybestos, wagner, etc)? thanks. Dave Yeung Houston Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 11:01:39 1999 From: "David Valone" To: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:03:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Holley carbs >I have an older Holley 4 barrel that is leaking out of the secondary bowl. >Someone rebuilt it and it is still leaking out of the secondary. Leaks on >the throttle linkage side right under where the silver tube passes between >the bowls. Little hole there. Is this an overflow and the float is stuck? The silver thing is a "transfer tube". There is a tiny o-ring which keeps it from leaking. If it is not lubricated and installed evenly between both fuel bowls, it will leak. If the float is stuck, a Holley will usually leak from the air horn vent. hope this helps, David Valone Richlands, Virginia '73 Capri 2800 dev99@netscope.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 11:39:16 1999 From: DUELRACER@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:38:09 EDT Subject: ES to HS to ES This is my opinion on the news that the Toyota Celica ST and the Mazda MX-6 4cyl are moving to another class. Allright! But, I really don't care if they are moved to that class or not. It seems to me that the whole idea of the stock class has been totally lost on people at the Nationals level. Solo II was set up for those that didn't have an inheritance to throw away or have the extra thousand of dollars to spend in a stock class car. I was in HS in the 97 and 98 Nationals in a 82 Datsun 200SX, yes the car may have been ugly and not as pretty as all the others but, Hey, it was a blast to drive. I took 16th out of 20 last year and would have done better if the transmission wouldn't have broke on my first run on the second day. BUT, I had fun. That is what the name of the game is supposed to be about. I also have an ES Toyota Corolla FX-16 GTS. This car is being proposed to HS for next year. This is my first year in driving it and I don't know how it will do. But, I spend what little money I have to just be able to buy a set of tires. We could always add another class to the mix. Stock classes that you have spent less than $1000 on and then Stock classes that have more than $1000 spent on the cars. But, all this is from a regular Joe that has been autocrossing since 94. If any of you have May 16th free and would like to travel to a site that is going to be huge, the Crown Autocross Club is hosting a charity autocross at the Kansas City Royals Stadiums. The course will be the size of, or larger than a Nationals course. It will be big enough that we will have three cars at a time on course. The course is being designed by National Champion Bert Swift (CMod) and Terry Nicoll (EMod). Enough from me. Paul Poore Secretary for the Crown Autocross Club. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 12:13:12 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: "team.net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:09:36 -0400 Subject: Autocross, Texas Region 2nd regional Hi Folks, Don't forget Texas Region regional event # 2 this weekend, Sunday Apr. 25, at Pennington Field in Bedford. Unfortunately, I will not be able to be there, but rest assured, Marty Smith will continue the tradition of chairing great Texas Region events. If there are any questions, or you need directions to Pennington Field, email Marty at Zoldutch@doglover.com . The event will begin at the usual time, with registration open at 8 AM and closing at 10AM. Drivers meeting at 1030, and first car out at 11 sharp. Phil Osborne From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 12:24:22 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: AutoX Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:23:30 -0500 Subject: Driving offset or curving slaloms.... Let me try a driving question... (I know, a bit off topic ;^) I know the fastest way through a typical slalom (that's not to say I can do it as fast as say, John Thomas; just that John has shown me how to do it ;^). But what about some of the variations on slaloms.... [I know these questions are tough in the abstract and answers can vary -- I am just fishing for what different strategies people use in attacking such things.] How do you attack a mildly curving slalom? Do you ignore the curve entirely and just adjust naturally? Do you just think of putting your car next to the cone but turned slightly (tangent to the curve)? Or do you make an exaggerated move to the left as you pass to the right of every other cone? Or?? How does the curve effect the speed you can take it? It should make the inside faster and outside slower. How about a slalom that is offset a bit... or each pair of cones is offset a few steps from the line formed by the previous two cones. There were several variations like that at the Ft. Worth National Tour. In that case, those offset slaloms were faster than the corners entering into them ... so you were accelerating. Do you ignore the offsets? Do you consciously try to make an exaggerated adjustment to line up each next pair of cones?? Or? How about a slalom with varying distances: 25, 35, 27, 36, 24? Assume a straight precedes and follows it. Do you brake as late as possible before the shorter sections? Or do you brake earlier in order to get back on the gas as early as possible? Or do you time your braking to load the front wheels for the tighter turns? Or? Just fishing for people's random tips on slalom variations, Thanks, Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 12:38:01 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: John Eagan Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:37:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Oklahoma >Visiting Muskogee left me with the impression that, claims to the > contrary by Merle Haggard nonwithstanding, it's a place where not even > squares can have a ball. On the other hand, reading that they have a > fine autocross site there, maybe things have changed there as well. As a longtime Kansan I can enjoy Okie jokes as much as anyone, and have told a few myself (ask me about an Okie vasectomy sometime). But... I find myself somewhat saddened by a conflict that will cause me to miss \NeOkla Region's excellent Solotime MiDiv Divisional this year. Also at Davis Field in Muskogee. Having been there the past two years, I have to say it is one of the most enjoyable events of a fine Solo II divisional series. The people are great, the site is outstanding, and the dinner at the country club is first rate! They put on an event any Region would be proud to claim. So, in the terms an autocrosser would define as having a ball, yes Muskogee is most definitely a place where that can happen. And does. Be it a Pro Solo (next year?) or a MiDiv Divisional, you will have a ball in Muskogee. --Rocky Entriken = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >From Rocky Entriken, Salina, Ks. Ikke sa Hurtig Racing R.Entriken@mcimail.com #4 DP Spitfire [Old Fartz #001] Phone: 785-827-5143 Freelance Motorsports Journalist FAX: 785-823-0213 || "Solo Stats", the archive of the Solo II Nationals, now updated to 1998 || || Yours for $40 shipped, including Your Personal Record || ~~~~~~~ also selling Formula V Traction Treatment, $38/gallon shipped ~~~~~~~ re 23 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 13:07:36 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Rocky Entriken Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:02:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Oklahoma Boy I hate it when I have to agree with Rocky. The dinner at the Country Club was awesome!!!!! How many Events have you been to that provide 5 star dining. And he is correct the people are great there. I can't wait to go back. The only bad part about it is its an awful drive from Kansas City. Last year I had my Formula Ford on an open trailer on the way to Muskogee. I stopped to get gas about 60 miles north of Muskogee. A guy walked up as I was pumping the gas. He asked where I was headed with the racecar. I told Muskogee He replied "They got a real good dirt track down there" Yeah Right Mike(I don't run on no DIRT) B. TLS#1 Rocky Entriken wrote The people are great, the site is outstanding, and the dinner at the country club is first rate! > They put on an event any Region would be proud to claim. > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > >From Rocky Entriken, Salina, Ks. Ikke sa Hurtig Racing > R.Entriken@mcimail.com #4 DP Spitfire [Old Fartz #001] > Phone: 785-827-5143 Freelance Motorsports Journalist > FAX: 785-823-0213 > || "Solo Stats", the archive of the Solo II Nationals, now updated to 1998 || > || Yours for $40 shipped, including Your Personal Record || > ~~~~~~~ also selling Formula V Traction Treatment, $38/gallon shipped ~~~~~~~ > re 23 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 13:12:12 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:10:30 -0600 Subject: Event on Concrete Snake River Region is going to Mountain Home Air Force Base for 2 one day events this Saturday the 24th and Sunday the 25th. Located 60 miles southeast of Boise, Idaho. This is a great opportunity to drive on concrete. If you are interested in attending, your name must be submitted to base personnel no later than Friday April 24th at 3 pm. If interested respond to Don Miller or call 208-888-7363 for more information. Don Miller TLS #8 Assistant RE/Comp Dir 68 Datsun Roadster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 13:28:09 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: DUELRACER@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:19:33 -0700 Subject: Re: ES to HS to ES Kinda like a "Claimer" class like in the One Lap? Interesting! AB We could always add another class to the mix. Stock classes that you have spent less than $1000 on ... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 13:33:22 1999 From: steve.cirian@us.pwcglobal.com To: RiverJahnke@Yahoo.com, NeonKermit@aol.com, cashmo@execpc.com, Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:36:46 -0500 Subject: Chicago Dyno Day Update [all] So far, the following people have responded: 1. Steve Cirian 2. River Jahnke 3. John Brotbeck 4. Jeff Cashmore 5. Tom ? 6. Gary Meisner 7. Kenton Cabiness 8. Mike Taylor 9. Tom Jelly 10. Chris Russell 11. Rob Raymer I will call and see what dates are available, and what the prices are. I think it was about $50, but this will depend on how many people turn up, etc. The place we went last time, Judge Brothers, did a very good job, so I will probably use them. Judge Brothers Racing Chassis Dyno Service 9420 Byron Chicago (Schiller Park), IL 630-993-1088 For more info, see my page from the last time we went: http://www.ScuderiaCiriani.com/scuderia/dyno.html I will send out an update when I find out more. I forgot to send this to the autox mailing list on my original post, so if you are subscribed there and want to get in on this, drop me a line. Cheers, ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ Steve Cirian http://www.ScuderiaCiriani.com/rx7 Chicago Region SCCA '95 RX-7 TT Tri State SCC #95 A Street Prepared rx-7.net ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 14:12:06 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:16:45 -0700 Subject: Go-away Force Tires :-( One View Ok - first the data: 92 240 SX at 2750 pounds, 6x15 rims, 225x50x15 BFG G-Force tires. March 28 - Event #1 at Tucson (1st class concrete) - 16 runs, 8 for me 8 for the wife (I am more aggressive/faster). Tires work well. 44# front 40# rear. Tire temps reasonable (camber-challenged car). Outer 'fake' tread mostly gone, but not all. April 11 - Event #2 at Phoenix (smooth asphalt) - 10 runs (5 &5), tires work well (settle on 42# front, 37# rear), no problems. 'Fake' tread gone outside, beginning to fade inside, two groves very prominent (not much wear). April 17 - Event #3 at Lake Havasu City (very smooth asphalt, slightly sandy from nearby beach) - 16 runs (4 each AM, 4 each PM), tires work well (42/37). MINOR tire lock-up at low speed upon entering a few corners (2 to 3 times total) due to loose sandy condition - flat spots develop that goes through the two main "tread" grooves! One tire has a small silver dollar sized cord hole showing in the middle of one flat spot. April 18 - Event #3A at Lake Havasu City (same event, two day) - 16 runs (8 & 8). Fingers crossed, put corded G-Force on corner least exposed to wear. As the day develops the size of the spot doubles, but the car still works OK. By the end of the event, the tires are generally 60% gone, two have flat spots beyond the two main grooves, and one has a cord hole about 2 inches in diameter. In summary, really three events (one a two-day), 58 runs (half by a wife who drives briskly but is not hard on tires at all), tires 60% gone, two are flat spotted, and one with cord showing. Let's see, about $650 for tires, tax, balance, etc., 58 runs, that's $11 per run. Not bad, huh? MY HISTORY - I've been around autocrossing for over 20 years, had a lot of cars and tires. I have used Yokohamas, but BFG's primarily, and LOVED the R-1's, even with the non-existant EGOD. I am known as a smooth driver, and do not typically do wild spins, hit many cones, or generally lose control of my car. I am pretty fast, have won a few divisionals, and regard myself as a B+ driver in CHD terms. On a good day with the right car I could beat anybody - but only ONE day! ;-) As I described above, both my wife and I had some MINOR wheel lock up on a very loose surface a couple of runs. We do this once in a while, and have on other tires. It has NEVER cost us a set of tires before. My wife and I usually autocross twice most months, about 20 events a year. I usually go through a set of tires every 6 to 8 months, after about total 160 runs (remember, me and the wife share the car). My *opinion* is that I will not buy another set of G-Force tires. They are too sensitive to minor driver errors. If you are a perfect driver, on a good surface, and never make a mistake you might do OK with these tires. They wear much faster than the R-1's did (I had a set of those on a heavier 95 240 SX). Side Note - I once had a pretty fast spin (45 mph) with that other 240 SX at a Divisional in California two years ago (I said I only spin ONCE in a while!) and did NOT flat spot or cord those R-1 tires; they were fine. It would have ruined all four of these G-Force tires. I know these tires are newly developed, and many of you are creating your own experiences - this was mine. I'm pretty sure BFG will tell me, as they did for EGOD, that the tire is just better than the driver. Probably true - but until they change this, I'm gone. FWIW. Scott Meyers DS -> ES? 240 SX SE From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 14:38:25 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: neon@iastate.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:36:58 CDT Subject: WTB Konis for neon I want Konis, but not the big-league price tag. If you have used Konis for a neon and want to sell, lets talk. Part numbers are 8741 1327 and 8741 1328, prefer non-slotted, sp2 suffix on the part number. P.S. If you're second place in a class of two, are you still DFL? If so, chalk one more up for Team DFL! Woo-hoo! Nothing like starting with slightly high tire pressures on a cold day to make a neon tail-happy! -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 14:44:36 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:49:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Go-away Force Tires -Additional Info >From another competitor......things I forgot to mention: > > I have two questions for you (from someone who is considering, but has not > purchased G-Forces...): > > > 1) Were the tires *properly* heat cycled? Yes they were - days before the first event. I had been told the G-Forces would wear quickly if I did not. > 2) Did you rotate the tires after each event or in a reasonable amount of > time? Each event, and in the case of the Lake Havasu event, each DAY the tires were rotated front to back. Thanks for asking those questions - I neglected to mention that info. Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 14:47:27 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jeff Blankenship" , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:48:11 -0500 Subject: Re: WTB Konis for neon >P.S. If you're second place in a class of two, are you still DFL? If so, >chalk one more up for Team DFL! ======================= No way man. Not the way I see it. You took second place that day. >Woo-hoo! Nothing like starting with slightly high tire pressures on a >cold day to make a neon tail-happy! ======================= Or brand new, not scuffed-in tires. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 15:12:37 1999 From: steve.cirian@us.pwcglobal.com To: RiverJahnke@Yahoo.com, NeonKermit@aol.com, cashmo@execpc.com, Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:06:09 -0500 Subject: Chicago Dyno Day Update [all] OK, I called Judge Bros., but the phone number was disconnected. I called information, but no luck. Someone else mentioned that a Chicago area car club was doing a dyno day soon - where were they going to go? I deleted the message. I checked with DynoJet, and got a list of places that have their machines in our area. Anyone have any experience with these, or any other recommendations? Precise Auto Truck Svc. 3054 N California Chicago 60618 Tel. 773-588-0111 Performance Tech. Center 55 Gaylord Elk Grove Village 60007 Tel. 847-228-7256 Street Stuff Automotive 533 S. Addison Addison 60101 Tel. 630-832-3773 UTI 601 Regency Drive Glendale Heights 60139 Tel. 630-529-2662 I might call Precise Auto Truck Svc, since they are just blocks from my house. Cheers, ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ Steve Cirian http://www.ScuderiaCiriani.com/rx7 Chicago Region SCCA '95 RX-7 TT Tri State SCC #95 A Street Prepared rx-7.net ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 15:12:39 1999 From: steve.cirian@us.pwcglobal.com To: RiverJahnke@Yahoo.com, NeonKermit@aol.com, cashmo@execpc.com, Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:05:15 -0500 Subject: Chicago Dyno Day Update [all] OK, I called Judge Bros., but the phone number was disconnected. I called information, but no luck. Someone else mentioned that a Chicago area car club was doing a dyno day soon - where were they going to go? I deleted the message. I checked with DynoJet, and got a list of places that have their machines in our area. Anyone have any experience with these, or any other recommendations? Precise Auto Truck Svc. 3054 N California Chicago 60618 Tel. 773-588-0111 Performance Tech. Center 55 Gaylord Elk Grove Village 60007 Tel. 847-228-7256 Street Stuff Automotive 533 S. Addison Addison 60101 Tel. 630-832-3773 UTI 601 Regency Drive Glendale Heights 60139 Tel. 630-529-2662 I might call Precise Auto Truck Svc, since they are just blocks from my house. Cheers, ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ Steve Cirian http://www.ScuderiaCiriani.com/rx7 Chicago Region SCCA '95 RX-7 TT Tri State SCC #95 A Street Prepared rx-7.net ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 15:19:58 1999 From: Sean Farrah To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RX-7 set up tips I just purchased an 88 RX-7 convertible and will be autoxing it. I was wondering if anyone can provide any set up tips or related web-sites. I race in Ontario so normal SCCA rules don't apply. I am either in stock RWD or modified RWD. The car is stock right now but I will modify it as money permits. When I modify it, what parts are the best for the $$ and what will make my times faster-suspension upgrades or power improvements? Also, if anyone in the Toronto/Oakville area has any performance parts/tires for sale please let me know. Also what is the best set up for tire/rim size and alignment settings? The car will be my daily driver, but the car will be driven fairly hard. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance and please respond privately as I am on the Digest. Sean Farrah From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 17:07:05 1999 From: Loren Williams To: Wichita SCCA , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:47:06 -0500 Subject: MirrorKhana on Street Rubber Hello, If you or anyone you know might be interested in running in a street tire class in Salina Region's upcoming MirrorKhana, please contact me. -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 17:30:35 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:29:18 EDT Subject: Info on Shifter Karts Hey all, All of you guys and gals who have had experience with these in autocrossing--What are your experiences with these? Costs (the old fun/dollar ratio)? Ease of use in autocross AND kart track events? They look like boatloads of fun and better bang for your buck than mod cars (especially those of us po' folk...). TIA, Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 17:40:03 1999 From: "rexford booth, iii" To: , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:38:29 -0400 Subject: Prelude Setups I have just discovered autocrossing, and am seeking advice on how to set up my 92 Prelude SI. My current mods put me in CSP, but I can also race in ST. My current mods include Iceman cold-air intake, RSR exhaust, DC ceramic header, AEM underdrive pulleys, Eibach Pro-kit Springs (w/ monroe shocks). It's a daily driver, so I want to keep it streetable, but would like to get the most out of it for racing. Does anybody have a successful setup they would like to share? Reliable brands I should stick with? Sources I should check out? I greatly appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance, Rusty Booth rboot8i7@mwc.edu http://students.mwc.edu/~rboot8i7/cars.htm ps - I am located in the DC metro area From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 18:15:26 1999 From: Eric Moon To: "rexford booth, iii" , , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:10:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Prelude Setups My current mods put me in CSP, but I can also race in ST. AEM underdrive pulleys, Are these pulleys legal for Street Prepared??? I'm not quite sure about the interpretation of 14.10(U) which relates to accessory pulleys and belts. Anyone else using underdrive pulleys in Street Prepared?? Eric Eric Moon '92 Miata SOLO II CSP e-mail: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 18:39:59 1999 From: "rexford booth, iii" To: , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:38:41 -0400 Subject: Pulleys Section 14.10 U. Apparently it's new this year. I got my info off of http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/car_class_sp_rules.html >>> Eric Moon 04/19 8:10 PM >>> My current mods put me in CSP, but I can also race in ST. AEM underdrive pulleys, Are these pulleys legal for Street Prepared??? I'm not quite sure about the interpretation of 14.10(U) which relates to accessory pulleys and belts. Anyone else using underdrive pulleys in Street Prepared?? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 19:35:40 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: DFW Tour results: whose photo? Just got the results of the Tour in the mail, and on the cover sheet is a photo of a nice ESP Eclipse. But, whose car is it? I don't see a ESP 59 in the results. Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 20:03:05 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: cblome@yahoo.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:58:43 EDT Subject: Re: DFW Tour results: whose photo? In a message dated 4/19/99 8:37:52 PM Central Daylight Time, cblome@yahoo.com writes: > Just got the results of the Tour in the mail, and on > the cover sheet is a photo of a nice ESP Eclipse. > But, whose car is it? I don't see a ESP 59 in the > results. Try the Ft Myers Pro Solo National Series results. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 20:03:19 1999 From: "Brent DeWitt" To: "Scott & Glenda Meyers" , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:07:17 -0600 Subject: RE: Go-away Force Tires :-( One View To continue the saga: Car: 1996 Neon ACR, 2.5 deg negative camber, 0 degrees toe. Driver: Intermediate experience. Over drives tires often, but _no_ lockups or spins in the life of the tire. Tires: 225/50-14 front, 205/55-14 rear Pressures: 46-48 psi front, 34-36 psi rear (all questionable, but 8 to 10 higher than "old" R-1 pressures. Break-in: 100 miles straight line driving at 75+ mph on freeway. Four days "rest". Life: Two weeks. Runs: - Six runs (myself and co-driver on smooth asphalt) - Twelve runs (33 second) at East Crawford site, Salina KS (agressive concrete) - McKamey Phase II school (25? runs), same site. - Four runs (77 second) same site. Result: Cord to steel strip approx. half inch wide at outer 1/4 width point on right front tire. Most event turns were left handers. Smaller cording in the same location on the left side. Summary: This is the shortest life I have ever gotten out of a tire. The bad news is that they work incredibly well on the Neon, so I can't see switching if I wan't to be competitive. Bummer..... Brent DeWitt From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 20:13:10 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:13:54 -0500 Subject: FWIW: Kuhmo wear.. On our VR4, we have four first place trophies in AS this year so far between two regions..and the wear is...nice! Between wife and I we have: 20 miles on highway, lightly agressive, 2 days rest. 12 runs on asphalt, I had lots of push a couple times *abs, no lockups* 12 runs on rough asphalt on a very agressive Oval/banked track course at WOR region. The front tires remained the front tires for both courses. Low neg camber in front, .8..all I can GET..for now. The shadow of the original tread blocks are still very clearly visible on the outside blocks. Running 50psi front, 30 back on a rough course, and 46/26 on a smoother course. Car with driver, about 4200lbs. Im much happier with these than I was with the Hoosiers last season even tho the tire weighs a lot more. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 20:19:17 1999 From: "David Moak" To: "Mohler, Jeff" , "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:18:13 -0500 Subject: Re: FWIW: Kuhmo wear.. Are your tires shaved? > > On our VR4, we have four first place trophies in AS this year so far between > two regions..and the wear is...nice! > > Between wife and I we have: > > 20 miles on highway, lightly agressive, 2 days rest. > 12 runs on asphalt, I had lots of push a couple times *abs, no lockups* > 12 runs on rough asphalt on a very agressive Oval/banked track course at WOR > region. > > The front tires remained the front tires for both courses. > Low neg camber in front, .8..all I can GET..for now. > The shadow of the original tread blocks are still very clearly visible on > the outside blocks. > > Running 50psi front, 30 back on a rough course, and 46/26 on a smoother > course. > > Car with driver, about 4200lbs. > > > > Im much happier with these than I was with the Hoosiers last season even tho > the tire weighs a lot more. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 20:22:33 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'David Moak'" , Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:23:20 -0500 Subject: RE: FWIW: Kuhmo wear.. Nope, didnt have them shaved, they are OEM from TireRack. > -----Original Message----- > From: David Moak [SMTP:dmoak@globalsite.net] > Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 9:18 PM > To: Mohler, Jeff; Team.Net > Subject: Re: FWIW: Kuhmo wear.. > > Are your tires shaved? > > > > > On our VR4, we have four first place trophies in AS this year so far > between > > two regions..and the wear is...nice! > > > > Between wife and I we have: > > > > 20 miles on highway, lightly agressive, 2 days rest. > > 12 runs on asphalt, I had lots of push a couple times *abs, no lockups* > > 12 runs on rough asphalt on a very agressive Oval/banked track course at > WOR > > region. > > > > The front tires remained the front tires for both courses. > > Low neg camber in front, .8..all I can GET..for now. > > The shadow of the original tread blocks are still very clearly visible > on > > the outside blocks. > > > > Running 50psi front, 30 back on a rough course, and 46/26 on a smoother > > course. > > > > Car with driver, about 4200lbs. > > > > > > > > Im much happier with these than I was with the Hoosiers last season even > tho > > the tire weighs a lot more. > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 20:46:13 1999 From: Thomas Smith To: Brent DeWitt , "team.net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:43:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Go-away Force Tires :-( One View I've gotten about the same wear on my Integra Type R with 225/50-15's in front and 205/50-15's in the rear. I am getting about 40-50 runs from the fronts and I estimate atleast 200 runs from the rears. All my runs are on asphalt of varying type. The tires are wearing very evenly to the point of being complete slicks (i.e. illegal) right before they cord. Tom Smith 98R410 Brent DeWitt wrote: > To continue the saga: > > Car: 1996 Neon ACR, 2.5 deg negative camber, 0 degrees toe. > > Driver: Intermediate experience. Over drives tires often, but _no_ lockups > or spins in the life of the tire. > > Tires: 225/50-14 front, 205/55-14 rear > > Pressures: 46-48 psi front, 34-36 psi rear (all questionable, but 8 to 10 > higher than "old" R-1 pressures. > > Break-in: 100 miles straight line driving at 75+ mph on freeway. Four days > "rest". > > Life: Two weeks. > > Runs: > - Six runs (myself and co-driver on smooth asphalt) > - Twelve runs (33 second) at East Crawford site, Salina KS (agressive > concrete) > - McKamey Phase II school (25? runs), same site. > - Four runs (77 second) same site. > > Result: Cord to steel strip approx. half inch wide at outer 1/4 width point > on right front tire. Most event turns were left handers. Smaller cording > in the same location on the left side. > > Summary: This is the shortest life I have ever gotten out of a tire. The > bad news is that they work incredibly well on the Neon, so I can't see > switching if I wan't to be competitive. > > Bummer..... > > Brent DeWitt From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 21:07:09 1999 From: Whitney To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:06:35 -0500 Subject: RE: Go-away Force Tires - Remeber when.... Just to reiterate - it was not that long ago that the hot tire was a 206 or (later) 226 BFG soft sidewall R1 - had to shave em for FWD cars - I would be lucky to get more than 1 pro solo on a pair of fronts 2 drivers - no challenge runs :( - That's 24 runs! and you had to have them to stand a chance. The hoosier autocrosser folks still deal with 30-40 run tire life, we have all been spoiled by the hard wearing kumho's and R1's. Of course, the G- force seems to be pretty 'hard' compounded, it's just a little thin (ie. 3/32). Stan Whitney DP/EP CRX - front hoosiers last about 15 'fast' runs - then another 10 slow ones! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 21:07:29 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: "rexford booth, iii" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:06:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Pulleys "rexford booth, iii" wrote: > > Section 14.10 U. Apparently it's new this year. I got my info off of > http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/car_class_sp_rules.html Actually, it was new or changed in 98, not 99. > > >>> Eric Moon 04/19 8:10 PM >>> > My current mods put me in CSP, but I can also race in ST. > > AEM underdrive pulleys, > > Are these pulleys legal for Street Prepared??? > I'm not quite sure about the interpretation of 14.10(U) which relates to > accessory pulleys and belts. > > Anyone else using underdrive pulleys in Street Prepared?? Not yet -- but I am considering them. Horror stories of water pumps and alternators going bad (predictions, not experience) have made me pause. I did verify via a letter to the SEB that it is okay to replace the pulleys in such a way that you underdrive (gear down) the accessories. You can also make the pulleys lighter. But they cannot completely stop driving the accessories at any time. (There are aftermarket variations that essentially turn off the alternator at WOT. I think that _ought_ to be allowed, but it is not currently.) Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 21:29:18 1999 From: "Jim Fossum" To: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:25:08 -0400 Subject: Fw: McKamey School Oops, thats MAY 22nd, not April. Jim ---------- > From: Jim Fossum > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: McKamey School > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 12:24 PM > > If anyone is interested, there are still a few spots open for the phase-2 > school in Albany, NY on April 22nd. (The ph-1s are full). > > Thanks, > Jim From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 22:26:04 1999 From: garyk98@home.com (Gary K) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:25:21 GMT Subject: May 1999 Cover I was admiring the cover photo of the new AP BMW M3, it is beautiful, and something caught my eye. I believe the picture was taken at the National Tour in San Diego, just as it says in the TOC (just look at the windshield and the tech stickers). My question is where are the required logos per section 3.7 in the rule book? 3.7 in the 1998 edition (on hand) which should be the same as in the 1999 edition (with the car). Basically the rule states 1 logo on each side. I see the SCCA logo on the front bumper, not on the side, and no National Tour logos anywhere. I know this will stir it up, but I am curious on how this got past tech inspection. I know when you go through registration they ask if you have the required stickers and if not they have them available. Is this rule enforceable? Should it have gotten past tech? Is this a weenie protest waiting to happen? Curious, Gary Kramar '89 F440 FM Yes, our car has the required stickers on both sides, but we are running out of room. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 19 23:10:53 1999 From: "john matthews" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:10:04 PDT Subject: Re: Solo 1 Brett, Thought you might like to know, here in the San Francisco Region SCCA we have a "street school" program that's ideal for solo II drivers who want some road course action. You drive your street car with an instructor by your side at our track. This is probally a better way to go than preping your car for solo 1 which is basically the same as for road racing. I'm not sure how popular solo 1 is in other regions, but once you get a taste for road course speed most drivers will want to go wheel 2 wheel anyway. I suspect that's why you don't hear much about solo 1 in "Sports Car" Just my $.02. John Matthews ITD #8 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 05:14:11 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: drpepper Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 05:58:52 -0500 Subject: Re: PSI perplexions cont'd... There's a good nickname for the activity: Cone butting = autox. drpepper wrote: > I'm a newbie to the land of the cone but -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 05:43:19 1999 From: Matt Murray To: "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:43:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Go-away Force Tires - Remember when.... The Hoosiers last longer than that (at least for me). Some of the comments about the "B" tire were the same as those made about Hoosier when they brought out the DOT tires. Funny how the "B" tires look VERY similar to the Hoosiers. Quite a compliment. Whitney wrote: > The hoosier autocrosser folks still deal with 30-40 run tire life, we have > all been spoiled by the hard wearing kumho's and R1's. > Stan Whitney -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 05:48:03 1999 From: Matt Murray To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:48:33 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover If you look closely, that sticker was added to the photo. A little Adobe Photoshop and viola! Ask Mark Wentworth NER SCCA's web master to show some of his "work". Gary K wrote: > I see the SCCA logo on the front bumper, not on the side, and no > National Tour logos anywhere. > > Gary Kramar -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 06:10:56 1999 From: Autovee@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:09:47 EDT Subject: Solo Vee - SEB The following letter was sent to the SEB this week in an attempt to furthur the understanding of why Solo Vees are as they are. The misconception that the 'new tech' is a potential advantage that we ignore limits the understanding of the level of seriousness that exists in our cars. Solo Events Board and Howard Duncan Sports Car Club of America 9033 Easter Place Englewood, CO 80112 Dear Solo Events Board Members and Howard Duncan: The April 1999 issue of Fastrack reported on page 21 that no action was recommended on member requests concerning F-Modified preparation. The following statement was also included: "It is also recognized that none of the Solo Vees currently running use ‘new tech’ chassis.” There is good reason for this. The major designs improvements in the modern “new tech” road race Formula Vee are in the areas of rear suspension, aerodynamics, and chassis construction features. The specific improvements are for a road race Formula Vee, and are not necessarily improvements for a Solo Vee. This is why the older Formula Vee designs are the chassis of choice for the Solo Vee community. Comments about the chassis differences follow. The goal of absolute stability at 110 mph is greatly enhanced with the modern leading arm zero roll rear suspensions. This handling charateristic is not a valid goal in Solo Vee, however. Even the trailing arm zero-roll rear suspensions will not work on a Solo Vee without adding a sway bar to put back the rear roll stiffness that the zero-roll was designed to take out. With zero-roll corner balance must be obtained with added ballast, or other physical change to the distribution of weight. The Z-bar suspensions of the older cars are much easier to adjust to Solo needs. The minimum silhouette mandated by the Formula Car Specifications is why the ride height of many of the current Vees is as high as it is----less frontal area for improved aerodynamics. The areo package offered by current Vee designs offers low drag and considerable consideration as to how well the car will draft. The cars with the higher ride heights would logically have a slightly higher center of gravity----not a good thing in Solo. We obviously don’t care about drafting, but the low drag is a good thing. It is frequently accomplished, however, by packaging the driver in a manner that is not desirable, because of cramped space. Solo requires rapid back and forth steering inputs which can be hampered by the cramped quarters. Vision is usually not as good in the modern road race chassis. Some of the modern designs have improved the ease of manufacture. While this isn’t bad in itself, compromises to chassis stiffness can be in a Solo Vee. Some lack of torsional stiffness in a road racing car may be desirable, or at least of limited concern, when no roll stiffness exists at the rear of the car. A late model Formula Vee could certainly be converted to a successful Solo Vee. It simply would take more work than an earlier car, without any advantage. The Adams Aero would seem to be the closest to what is required, but it would require significant revision to the rear suspension. The main plus for the latter cars may well be that it easier to find a straight one. The main disadvantage to the older designs is merely that they are old and frequently require repairs to get a square platform to work on. In summary the SVOA members do not feel that the new “high tech” Formula Vee chassis offers any significant advantages for the design of a Solo Vee.racecar. Sincerely, Rudy Bahnsen Director SVOA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 06:21:00 1999 From: washburn To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:17:12 -0500 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover Matt Murray wrote: > > If you look closely, that sticker was added to the photo. > A little Adobe Photoshop and viola! Ask Mark Wentworth > NER SCCA's web master to show some of his "work". You beat me to that. I was going to say it looks a little faked, but fear of sounding like I was making unfounded accusations stopped me. Thanks! My guess was tht it was a shake out run and that points were not the top priority, that's why there were no stickers. Either that or they just let it go. (Fine time to get your picture on the cover!) -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 07:34:04 1999 From: Whitney To: Matt Murray , "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:33:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Go-away Force Tires - Remember when.... Sorry, I meant to qualify the hoosier comment towards the bias ply autocorssers and old AS302 radials. Stan At 07:43 AM 4/20/99 -0400, Matt Murray wrote: >The Hoosiers last longer than that (at least for me). >Some of the comments about the "B" tire were the >same as those made about Hoosier when they brought >out the DOT tires. Funny how the "B" tires look VERY >similar to the Hoosiers. Quite a compliment. > >Whitney wrote: > >> The hoosier autocrosser folks still deal with 30-40 run tire life, we have >> all been spoiled by the hard wearing kumho's and R1's. >> Stan Whitney > >-- >Matt Murray > >My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net >It was mattm@nassau.cv.net >Please note the change in your address books > >As always, work is: >mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 08:05:43 1999 From: John Whitling To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:07:59 -0400 Subject: Tire wear issues Well it didn't take too long for people to start complaining of tire wear with the new G Force tire. It only makes sense that left unregulated tire wear will continue to get worse, depending on how serious Kumho and Hoosier are about the "racing street tire" market. In general, softer tires go faster and wear faster. It wasn't long ago that the hot tire for autox wasn't good for much more than a weekend Pro. And a two driver car would overheat the tires on even seventy degree days. It wasn't long ago a that a single tire company chased all other tire companies out of autox because they took race tires to a level that no other company was willing to go. Then, eventually, tires got harder again so they could use a single tire for autox and club racing. Collectively you (we) have a choice ... pay more money for more tires and deal with all the associated hassles OR push for for a simple easy "Z" speed rating requirement for all race tires. You'll all, in your infinite wisdom, tell me that for some magic reason tires cannot be regulated. They are too complex for that ... black magic, if you will. Well BS ... find the problem with a simple speed rating. Speed ratings would not be cheated by tire companies. Nothing could be easier to enforce. And an even better idea ... If the SCCA had their act together, they could create consistent tire rules for club racing and solo alike. Tire companies would have only one set of rules to work to for all of SCCA. Dare I say that the tires would be safer and that the tire companies would be able to use racing as a mean of developing new technologies for their street tire lines. More tire companies would use racing as a development tool and there would be more choices available. So again ... why won't this work? How could it make anything worse? I don't see the downside. There's lots of upside. John Whitling From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 08:13:58 1999 From: Steve Couture To: "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Blown CRX A debate as to whether or not this is a real picture has been going on (and on, and on, and on...) through the neon mailing list. I'm not going to make a call either way, I just think it is so funny that I just had to share... http://www.enzoco.com/mike/blowncrx.jpg -- Steve Couture (rhymes with future!) "I've got it in 'R' for 'Race', is that right?" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 08:19:20 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:17:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire wear issues Pray tell, what does the speed rating have to do with tire wear???? Tread life is indicated by the treadwear number the manufacturer places on the sidewall, not not by the speed rating. The speed rating means the tire will not disintegrate if sustained at speeds within its rating, and is generally viewed by us as an indicator of "toughness" or "responsiveness" i.e. Z-rated might be crisper than V-rated, definitely sharper than H-rated. Speed rating is a demonstration by the manufacturer of the tire's ability to perform accroding to certain standards. Wear rating is an _arbitrary_ number, pretty much undefinable, assigned by the manufacturer as a guideline for tread life in standard highway conditions. A higher number means longer life, but Goodyear's numbers may or may not compare to Firestone's. (If you come from camcorders, it's like the LUX rating they used to rave about; Sony's LUX numbers were good for comparing to other Sony's, but useless for comparing to Canons or Hitachis.) The theory is that there is a standard 100 life against which tires are measured, and I'd even heard that you should multiply the wear number by 200 to get a mileage figure. Doesn't happen, though. Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT John Whitling wrote: > > . . . > > Collectively you (we) have a choice ... pay more money for more tires > and deal with all the associated hassles OR push for for a simple easy > "Z" speed rating requirement for all race tires. You'll all, in your > infinite wisdom, tell me that for some magic reason tires cannot be > regulated. They are too complex for that ... black magic, if you will. > Well BS ... find the problem with a simple speed rating. Speed ratings > would not be cheated by tire companies. Nothing could be easier to > enforce. > > . . . From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 08:26:55 1999 From: Paula Whitney To: "'Gary K'" , Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:22:20 -0500 Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover From: Gary K [SMTP:garyk98@home.com] --snip-- My question is where are the required logos per section 3.7 in the rule book? 3.7 in the 1998 edition (on hand) which should be the same as in the 1999 edition (with the car). Basically the rule states 1 logo on each side. I see the SCCA logo on the front bumper, not on the side, and no National Tour logos anywhere. **** At the San Diego event, the supplier for the SCCA and National Tour stickers did not get the shipment to me until Sunday NIGHT, not a lot of help for the event. You are correct about the rule and it would have gotten caught in Tech if we had the stickers available. paula whitney From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 08:27:10 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:26:11 PDT Subject: Ferrari 328 What are the specs on the Ferrari 328? does anyone know I have an oppertunity to purchase a '89 (GTS i think) in great condition from the estate of a deciesed friend...But I would have to sell my autocross car. I would like to know If I could run this car? It seems good, and it is in A-stock. Any Ideas? Jeff From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 08:42:15 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Steve Couture'" , Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:32:42 -0500 Subject: RE: Blown CRX *chuckle* So..does this car deserve to be called a CRX anymore? No. *heh* And..does the Prolong car really use Prolong? No. Dont get me started on the brand of NGKs the Splitfire car uses either.. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Couture [SMTP:stevecouture@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 9:13 AM > To: Team.Net > Subject: Blown CRX > > A debate as to whether or not this is a real picture has been going on > (and on, and on, and on...) through the neon mailing list. I'm not going > to make a call either way, I just think it is so funny that I just had to > share... > > http://www.enzoco.com/mike/blowncrx.jpg > > -- > Steve Couture (rhymes with future!) > "I've got it in 'R' for 'Race', is that right?" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 08:46:13 1999 From: "Robert K. Marcho" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:44:41 -0500 Subject: OT: Holley carbs Yup. Probably stuck float. Nine times out of ten that is what is happening. The other time it is an improperly adjusted float level. Also look for a piece of grit that might be holding the float open slightly. Bob You wrote: I have an older Holley 4 barrel that is leaking out of the secondary bowl. Someone rebuilt it and it is still leaking out of the secondary. Leaks on the throttle linkage side right under where the silver tube passes between the bowls. Little hole there. Is this an overflow and the float is stuck? Any and all help appreciated. Thanks! Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster (damn, exhaust systems can take a long itme) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 09:09:26 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "John Whitling" , Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:06:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire wear issues John Whitling says: >It wasn't long ago that the hot tire for autox wasn't good for much more >than a weekend Pro. Whether or not you could get more wear than this, it was not uncommon for the "serious" competitors to fit a fresh set for each Pro. I wouldn't be surprised if this were still common practice. > And a two driver car would overheat the tires on >even seventy degree days. You can still do that, even on street tires. Depends on the car, the course, and the drivers. >It wasn't long ago a that a single tire >company chased all other tire companies out of autox because they took >race tires to a level that no other company was willing to go. Yoko, Hoosier, and Kumho have consistently offered DOT competition tires that were more or less competitive with BFGs. I've run Hoosier AutoCrossers ever since BFG discontinued the 226 compound, and it's a better tire than the 226 on my car. I also get more than 120 autox runs on a set of tires, and I replace tires because of age, not wear. It would appear that you're making reference to Yoko's decision to stop sending a trailer to major autox events. That's not quite the same as "chasing all other tire companies out of autox." >Then, >eventually, tires got harder again so they could use a single tire for >autox and club racing. Hosers have always been available in two compounds, and the softer one is not necessarily the best autox tire. Depends on the car, the course conditions, and the driver(s). >Collectively you (we) have a choice ... pay more money for more tires >and deal with all the associated hassles OR push for for a simple easy >"Z" speed rating requirement for all race tires. That won't fix a thing. Yoko A032s have a Z rating, if I remember correctly, and their average street life on the NSX for which they were specifically developed seems to average 5k-7k miles. >Well BS ... find the problem with a simple speed rating. See above. A speed rating reflects casing design and sidewall construction, NOT compound hardness or expected wear life. Requiring Z rated tires for autox WOULD guarantee that the average autox tire would cost substantially more than is presently the case, would NOT guarantee increased life, and would offer no benefit to offset the added cost. >And an even better idea ... If the SCCA had their act together, they >could create consistent tire rules for club racing and solo alike. If you're talking about SS and IT, what is the present difference between SCCA's tire rules for those racing classes and autox? I'm not aware of any significant differences. >Dare I say that the tires would be safer For autox? I've never heard of an incident related to tire failure in autox competition. >So again ... why won't this work? Asked and answered. >How could it make anything worse? Asked and answered. >I don't see the downside. See above. There definitely is a downside. It's called "higher tire cost." Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 09:10:19 1999 From: Richard Pilfold To: "'garyk98@home.com'" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:57:56 -0700 Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover In San Diego registration ran out of "National Tour" stickers Richard Pilfold -C.S.C.C. BSP 240Z "rpilfold@gdmoore.com" > -----Original Message----- > From: garyk98@home.com [SMTP:garyk98@home.com] > Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 9:25 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: May 1999 Cover > > I was admiring the cover photo of the new AP BMW M3, it is beautiful, > and something caught my eye. I believe the picture was taken at the > National Tour in San Diego, just as it says in the TOC (just look at > the windshield and the tech stickers). My question is where are the > required logos per section 3.7 in the rule book? 3.7 in the 1998 > edition (on hand) which should be the same as in the 1999 edition > (with the car). Basically the rule states 1 logo on each side. > > I see the SCCA logo on the front bumper, not on the side, and no > National Tour logos anywhere. > > I know this will stir it up, but I am curious on how this got past > tech inspection. I know when you go through registration they ask if > you have the required stickers and if not they have them available. > Is this rule enforceable? Should it have gotten past tech? Is this a > weenie protest waiting to happen? > > Curious, > > Gary Kramar > '89 F440 FM > > Yes, our car has the required stickers on both sides, but we are > running out of room. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 09:42:48 1999 From: "Mari L. Clements" To: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:45:16 -0400 Subject: finishing order >P.S. If you're second place in a class of two, are you still DFL? If so, >chalk one more up for Team DFL! You came in second. Your competitor was in next to last place. (At least, that's the way we always talk about the annual faculty vs. students softball game.) mlc Mari L. Clements, Ph.D. Department of Psychology Penn State University 442 Moore or 160 USB 1 University Park, PA 16802-3104 (814)863-5664 fax (814)863-7002 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 09:57:35 1999 From: "Mari L. Clements" To: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:00:07 -0400 Subject: Central PA Region SCCA autocross schedule This year's events will be held at the large parking lot adjacent to PSU's football stadium and at the test track near the University Park, PA airport. Summer Series (best four finishes considered for series trophies) May 2 Penn State Test Track May 23 Penn State Test Track June 6 Lot Orange A July 25 Lot Orange A August 8 Penn State Test Track Fall Challenge (sponsored by Colwell Motor Cars, Dix Honda, Gemini Enterprises, and K-Speed) September 26 Penn State Test Track October 17 Penn State Test Track October 24 Penn State Test Track $20 for first set of runs ($5 discount for SCCA members). Second, noncompetition set of runs is $10. Registration and tech open from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. (exceptions for out-of-towners may be made at the discretion of event chair), with mandatory driver's meeting at 11:15, and first car off at 11:30. The test track is shaped kind of like an old Volkswagen key: a large skidpad area attached to a long, skinny slalom. Lot Orange A is the newly expanded and paved lot adjacent to Beaver Stadium (it's not quite 2/10 of a mile long and slightly over 1/10 of a mile wide, with 9 light posts). Right now, most events are scheduled for the test track, but there's a possibility we could get Orange A for other events, so check for updates in any of the following ways: http://www.vicon.net/~bvw/scca1.html Paul Stinson (814) 234-5209 Larry Long (570) 398-1058 Eric Clements (814)692-7950 or ewc4@juno.com With any luck, maps and directions will eventually make it to either my website or the one listed above. Until then, try the contacts above for more information. mlc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 09:59:42 1999 From: Brian Priebe To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:55:36 -0400 Subject: FS: Brand new limited slip for 84-87 CRX Friend of mine has a brand new Quaiffe (spelling?) for sale. He is asking $200 plus shipping, if interested I would call Passen Motorsports immediatley. I am sure it will be gone quick at that price. 614-882-2082 ask for Sean or Jeff --Brian Priebe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 10:05:23 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:02:34 EDT Subject: Re: Tire wear issues alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: > I don't see the downside. There's lots of upside. Search the archives, this topic is as old as this forum. M Sipe - I like 'em sticky. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 10:19:50 1999 From: Streldoc@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:18:51 EDT Subject: Fwd: Go-away Force Tires :-( One View --part1_5d5224eb.244e02eb_boundary 84 runs on 93 RX7...They are just starting to cord but they have lost there grip about 20 runs ago. Flipped the tires half way. Erik --part1_5d5224eb.244e02eb_boundary Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc03.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:48:17 -0400 Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu (triumph.cs.utah.edu [155.99.188.52]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA03238; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA27377; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:46:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA27308 for autox-actors; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:46:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371BCDC6.2BA5CCA@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:43:50 -0500 From: Thomas Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brent DeWitt , "team.net" Subject: Re: Go-away Force Tires :-( One View References: <000001be8aca$2216d0a0$43a920cc@stubby> Sender: owner-autox@autox.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Thomas Smith I've gotten about the same wear on my Integra Type R with 225/50-15's in front and 205/50-15's in the rear. I am getting about 40-50 runs from the fronts and I estimate atleast 200 runs from the rears. All my runs are on asphalt of varying type. The tires are wearing very evenly to the point of being complete slicks (i.e. illegal) right before they cord. Tom Smith 98R410 Brent DeWitt wrote: > To continue the saga: > > Car: 1996 Neon ACR, 2.5 deg negative camber, 0 degrees toe. > > Driver: Intermediate experience. Over drives tires often, but _no_ lockups > or spins in the life of the tire. > > Tires: 225/50-14 front, 205/55-14 rear > > Pressures: 46-48 psi front, 34-36 psi rear (all questionable, but 8 to 10 > higher than "old" R-1 pressures. > > Break-in: 100 miles straight line driving at 75+ mph on freeway. Four days > "rest". > > Life: Two weeks. > > Runs: > - Six runs (myself and co-driver on smooth asphalt) > - Twelve runs (33 second) at East Crawford site, Salina KS (agressive > concrete) > - McKamey Phase II school (25? runs), same site. > - Four runs (77 second) same site. > > Result: Cord to steel strip approx. half inch wide at outer 1/4 width point > on right front tire. Most event turns were left handers. Smaller cording > in the same location on the left side. > > Summary: This is the shortest life I have ever gotten out of a tire. The > bad news is that they work incredibly well on the Neon, so I can't see > switching if I wan't to be competitive. > > Bummer..... > > Brent DeWitt --part1_5d5224eb.244e02eb_boundary-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 10:29:40 1999 From: "m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c." To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:37:49 -0500 Subject: Kumho directional tread?? Hey all, for those running on Kumhos, has anyone rotated the tires without paying attention to the arrow on the outside pointing which direction they should be facing? because of these arrows and the look of the tread when new i assumed they were directional.... this past weekend Mark Skelton noticed that my Kumhos were on the wrong side so in essence i was running the tread in the wrong direction. (chalk it up to changing my wheels/tires at the last second during the drivers meeting) heck, i'm not going to complain since i still ran fast enough to edge out B stock. but, this opens up a can of worms regarding the construction of the tire. If they're really not directional then i can flip-flop them to save the outside corner from premature wear. any thoughts? i'm running on 205/55/14s dan pedroza http://www.mroadster.com tel : (512) 9 9 0 - 8 2 1 1 BS 99 Solo II From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 10:35:25 1999 From: Tommy Regan To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Kumho directional tread?? Danny Boy, I think Kumhos are assymetrical and not directional. Meaning they have a specific "outside" sidewall, but it doesn't matter in which direction they rotate. So don't pay attention to the rotation arrows, only the "this side out" markings. So the outsides will always be the outsides. This, unfortunately, won't help much with regard to tire rotation from my experience. Later, Tommy --- "m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c." wrote: > Hey all, > > for those running on Kumhos, has anyone rotated the tires without > paying > attention to the arrow on the outside pointing which direction they > should > be facing? because of these arrows and the look of the tread when > new i > assumed they were directional.... > > this past weekend Mark Skelton noticed that my Kumhos were on the > wrong > side so in essence i was running the tread in the wrong direction. > (chalk > it up to changing my wheels/tires at the last second during the > drivers > meeting) heck, i'm not going to complain since i still ran fast > enough to > edge out B stock. but, this opens up a can of worms regarding the > construction of the tire. If they're really not directional then i > can > flip-flop them to save the outside corner from premature wear. > > any thoughts? > > i'm running on 205/55/14s > > dan pedroza > http://www.mroadster.com > tel : (512) 9 9 0 - 8 2 1 1 > BS 99 Solo II > === Tommy Regan '87 Mustang CP #16 Austin, Texas From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 10:59:00 1999 From: "m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c." To: Tommy Regan Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:06:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Spokes: Re: Kumho directional tread?? At 09:31 AM 4/20/1999 -0700, Tommy Regan wrote: >Danny Boy, > >I think Kumhos are assymetrical and not directional. Meaning they have >a specific "outside" sidewall, but it doesn't matter in which direction >they rotate. So don't pay attention to the rotation arrows, only the >"this side out" markings. So the outsides will always be the outsides. oh that note...just out of curiosity, has anyone run on the Kumhos with the "outsides" on the "insides"? :) i had to flip-flop my previous Toyo RA1s about 3/4 through its life to save the outside edges and they worked fine but that was a different construction than the Kumho. does anyone have any idea on how to even out the wear with the outside and inside corners? dan pedroza http://www.mroadster.com tel : (512) 9 9 0 - 8 2 1 1 BS 99 Solo II From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 11:06:56 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Tommy Regan , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Spokes: Re: Kumho directional tread?? iirc Kumho tread is asymmetrical but the carcass is not...so once the tread is worn off it should not matter if they are mounted inside out. Craig B. --- Tommy Regan wrote: > > I think Kumhos are assymetrical and not directional. > Meaning they have > a specific "outside" sidewall, but it doesn't matter > in which direction > they rotate. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 11:12:48 1999 From: "D. Engelhaupt" To: autox@autox.team.net, list@spokes.org Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Spokes: Re: Kumho directional tread?? Dan, Don't know for sure, but wouldn't you get more inside wear if you dialed in more negative camber and put a little toe out on them? Of course toe out isn't really a good thing on the Miata for autocross. === Derek Engelhaupt Customer Engineer Hewlett Packard '97 White Mazda Miata Odenton, MD Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible. -- Doug Larson ---"m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c." wrote: > > At 09:31 AM 4/20/1999 -0700, Tommy Regan wrote: > >Danny Boy, > > > >I think Kumhos are assymetrical and not directional. Meaning they have > >a specific "outside" sidewall, but it doesn't matter in which direction > >they rotate. So don't pay attention to the rotation arrows, only the > >"this side out" markings. So the outsides will always be the outsides. > > oh that note...just out of curiosity, has anyone run on the Kumhos with the > "outsides" on the "insides"? :) > > i had to flip-flop my previous Toyo RA1s about 3/4 through its life to save > the outside edges and they worked fine but that was a different > construction than the Kumho. > > does anyone have any idea on how to even out the wear with the outside and > inside corners? > > > dan pedroza > http://www.mroadster.com > tel : (512) 9 9 0 - 8 2 1 1 > BS 99 Solo II > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 11:25:28 1999 From: "m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c." To: "D. Engelhaupt" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:32:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Spokes: Re: Kumho directional tread?? At 09:55 AM 4/20/1999 -0700, D. Engelhaupt wrote: >Dan, > >Don't know for sure, but wouldn't you get more inside wear if you >dialed in more negative camber and put a little toe out on them? Of >course toe out isn't really a good thing on the Miata for autocross. i've maxed out my negative camber on my fronts. i currently run negative 1.5 left and right with me in the car with my toe set at -.04" left and right. my pressures are set at 38psi all the way around. dan pedroza http://www.mroadster.com tel : (512) 9 9 0 - 8 2 1 1 BS 99 Solo II From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 11:40:48 1999 From: "Stevens, Kevin" To: "'Mari L. Clements'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:40:47 -0700 Subject: RE: finishing order Or, your competitor beat everyone in the class; you beat no one in the class! KeS BTW, heard this snippet on the radio here in PC San Francisco. One of the local school systems has begun not keeping score for children's league soccer games, in an effort to reduce the perceived problem with labelling winners/losers. I cracked up - so this helps the problem for all kids and parents too dumb to count to what, FOUR?! It's SOCCER, for god's sake! > -----Original Message----- > From: Mari L. Clements [SMTP:mlc4@psu.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 8:45 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: finishing order > > >P.S. If you're second place in a class of two, are you still DFL? If > so, > >chalk one more up for Team DFL! > > You came in second. Your competitor was in next to last place. (At > least, > that's the way we always talk about the annual faculty vs. students > softball > game.) > > mlc > Mari L. Clements, Ph.D. > Department of Psychology > Penn State University > 442 Moore or 160 USB 1 > University Park, PA 16802-3104 > (814)863-5664 > fax (814)863-7002 > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 11:42:11 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:46:44 -0700 Subject: Same Old Tire Cost Hash? Nah..... So this is old stuff, huh? I suggest that it is not. Times have changed, it is many months and even years since this was last "hashed" and "re-hashed". Since that last time, much is different. Was nothing learned? BFG is exploring new ground, and hopefully seeking a competitive tire that will meet the needs of competitors. Kumho has done some major catching up, and in many cases and classes is the equal of BFG. It also offers significant wear advantages. Hoosier is very competitive for some. Toyos are a relative unknown to Solo 2, reported to "suck for a very long time", yet many find highly competitive especially in road racing. Yokohama seems to be a good tire that (as far as I've heard) is a little slower than the rest listed above......maybe. I would expect that things are learned with every new wave of tire technology, that the past means something, and that there will be improvement. To me (and probably a few others) improvement means a tire that performs well and will give reasonable (i.e. affordable) wear and life. To some cost is no object, and they will have as many tires as they need. This will always be true, no matter what tires are available. To many more, cost along with a reasonable competitive life IS a significant issue. $11 per run is a scary number. The better drivers will be competitive on any tire. Others who cannot afford a new set of tires every three or four events will be relegated to some disadvantage because of the cost factor. Is this what our sport seeks? Hope not. Did SCCA create this situation? Nope. So my point - I say that if the tire companies hear us say that we prefer tires that are competitive with each other, AND last a reasonable time, that those tires will evolve and be offered. How will they "hear" us? By not buying the product that does not meet our needs. I personally will move to a tire that lasts longer than 3 or 4 events. This will vary depending on driver, car, and equipment. To each his own. No wonder the Street Tire classes are huge in our and many other areas........oops - don't want to rehash that old argument :-) Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 12:18:05 1999 From: "Mari L. Clements" To: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:20:39 -0400 Subject: Central PA SCCA website oops! In my last e-mail, I had the address for the Central PA region of the SCCA wrong. It is really http://www.vicon.net/~bvw/scca1.htm The rest of the contact info & schedule stuff is correct, and I'm re-attaching here so yall can save just one e-mail. > This year's events will be held at the large parking lot adjacent to PSU's > football stadium and at the test track near the University Park, PA airport. > > Summer Series (best four finishes considered for series trophies) > May 2 Penn State Test Track > May 23 Penn State Test Track > June 6 Lot Orange A > July 25 Lot Orange A > August 8 Penn State Test Track > > Fall Challenge (sponsored by Colwell Motor Cars, Dix Honda, Gemini > Enterprises, and K-Speed) > September 26 Penn State Test Track > October 17 Penn State Test Track > October 24 Penn State Test Track > > $20 for first set of runs ($5 discount for SCCA members). Second, > noncompetition set of runs is $10. Registration and tech open from 9 a.m. > to 11 a.m. (exceptions for out-of-towners may be made at the discretion of > event chair), with mandatory driver's meeting at 11:15, and first car off at > 11:30. > > http://www.vicon.net/~bvw/scca1.html > Paul Stinson (814) 234-5209 > Larry Long (570) 398-1058 > Eric Clements (814)692-7950 or ewc4@juno.com Sorry! mlc P.S. Go ahead, Brian, flame away. I'm waiting. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 12:18:15 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:17:16 EDT Subject: Re: Tire wear issues In a message dated 4/20/99 9:08:42 AM Central Daylight Time, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: << If the SCCA had their act together, they could create consistent tire rules for club racing and solo alike. Tire companies would have only one set of rules to work to for all of SCCA. >> Well John, since you've discovered the simple solution, why don't you take the rule books and write up the rule(s) exactly as they would actually appear? Bruce (anxiously waiting to see your proposal) Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 12:23:36 1999 From: Alan Pozner To: "'Jeffrey Lloyd'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:21:15 -0400 Subject: RE: Ferrari 328 Jeff, The cost of owning a Ferrari is not only the purchase but the maintenance. I believe a 328 requires engine removal for routine service every 30k miles. Expect $5000 every 30K miles and god help you if you don't do the service. There are a lot of Ferraris of that vintage going for $20 - $30K and that's why. The current owners are getting rid of them before the big bucks need to be spent on upkeep. While we all know they will appreciate in value recognize that you must have the ante to play this rich man's game. Regards, Alan '93 ES delSol $500 every 60K miles > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Lloyd [SMTP:jslz3@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 10:26 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Ferrari 328 > > What are the specs on the Ferrari 328? does anyone know > I have an oppertunity to purchase a '89 (GTS i think) in great > condition from the estate of a deciesed friend...But I would have to > sell my autocross car. I would like to know If I could run this car? > It seems good, and it is in A-stock. Any Ideas? > Jeff > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 12:32:25 1999 From: Eldon Brooks To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:31:41 -0400 Subject: Wanted Info on Tires/wheels Hey there all. I have just started my 2nd year AutoXing with the Boston Chapter of the BMWCCA and after this past runs I have determined that I need better 'shoes' for my car. One problem - what ones out of the MANY should I decide upon. Here are the specs for my car and if anyone could share some info it would be greatly appreciated. BTW - I want tires that are Non-R Compound and good for everyday use. Preferably no larger than 16". Thanks I have a Honda Civic DX 4door with no suspension mods at all. Thanks again - Eldon From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 12:49:58 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:47:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire wear issues speed ratings Again, the speed rating is a measure of the carcass design, not the tread surface characterstics. Note the previous post from Jay Mitchell about Z-rated A032s. Tire temperature, for purposes of speed rating is not tread temperature, it's the heat buildup inside the tire, in the sidewalls, the belts, the plies, etc. This heat is the result of internal friction as the tire deforms against the road surface. A faster tire has to do this at a higher rate, and has to either withstand or dissipate the heat. Granted, disintigrating is technically a way of dissipating heat, but not what we're looking for. This is why higher-speed-rated tires generally have a sturdier build to the carcass. The softness or firmness of the tread compound (different rubber from the carcass) has absolutely nothing to do with it. Tread temperature is pretty much a measure of slip angles, wheelspin, whatever the tire does besides roll straight, and a Z-rated street-compound tire can be destroyed in a few runs and never reach 50 MPH. (As I've said in previous posts on other subjects, don't ask me how I know!) Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT John Whitling wrote: > Speed ratings are > not so arbitrary. Tire design is a constant battle > of handling and dissapating heat. Soft compounds cannot survive long enough > at high enough temps to get a Z rating, hence the benifit to using speed > ratings > as a measuring stick. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 13:01:19 1999 From: "Burns, James B." To: autox Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:00:24 -0400 Subject: 10th Anniversary Miatas available in MD Just in case anyone is interested, I was at Russell Mazda in Ellicott City, Maryland, and they had a 10th Anniversary Miata there. I was told that they would sell it with no additional markup, and that they had more coming. I think list price is close to $30K, so even with no markup they are dang expensive for a Miata. But I do love the color, and the 6 speed might provide improved gear ratios for autox (probably depends on the course, though.). Their number is (410) 744-2300. Brad Burns '91 MR2T, A-stock '87 RX7, ITS (No, I'm not interested in buying a new Miata. If I had $30K to spend on a car, I'd get a nice used M3.) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 13:21:09 1999 From: Don and Sharon Roberts To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:57:37 -0800 Subject: Shauna Marinus Check out the American Lemans series/Women's Global GT race at Road Atlanta last week-end - although she DNF'd, she set the fastest race lap time of 1:43.188 - the closest to that was a 1:43.587. Wouldn't it be too cool to see a woman running the Indy 500 again! Or, F1 at Indy? Sharon Roberts From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 13:25:37 1999 From: garyk98@home.com (Gary K) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:24:49 GMT Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover To everyone that replied, Thanks. I did not know they ran out of stickers. Upon an even closer inspection the SCCA sticker on the front bumper does look a little off, but it was still a great job putting it there. On casual observation, it looks like it was there the whole time. Ain't technology great. But, I still have a question. If they had enough stickers for everyone. Is it a weenie protest? And has anyone in the past protested because of stickers? Thanks again for the replies. Gary Kramar '89 F440 FM On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:48:33 -0400, you wrote: >If you look closely, that sticker was added to the photo. >A little Adobe Photoshop and viola! Ask Mark Wentworth >NER SCCA's web master to show some of his "work". > >Gary K wrote: > >> I see the SCCA logo on the front bumper, not on the side, and no >> National Tour logos anywhere. >> >> Gary Kramar From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 13:38:34 1999 From: Chad and Susan Sutton To: Autocross List Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:38:13 -0500 Subject: SoloII event, Wichita 4/25 This Sunday is the 3rd Solo of the year for Wichita at McConnell AFB. McConnell provides us one of the best sites around with lots of nice sticky concrete so be sure not to miss it. From conversations with people in the area, and all the extra requested passes, I suspect we will have 100+ cars running. Expect some good competition in most classes. This event is being run differently than most our typical events. All run and work heats are prearranged by class (like a divisional). Check the Wichita SCCA web page for details in the pre-registration section, http://www2.southwind.net/~scca/ . If at all possible please pre register using the web form provided on the web site. Also remember to have your base pass. You will find it in the back of the Wail and you will need it to get though the gates at the base. If you need one (or more) please contact me asap, snail mail will take some time to get them to you. We are allowed to use either the front or back gates this year. See you Sunday, Chad Sutton Wichita SCCA SoloII Chairman -- ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ Chad and Susie Sutton A Miata and .... I forget. mailto:thesuttons@feist.com mailto:chad@miata.net http://www.feist.com/~thesuttons From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 13:49:38 1999 From: WattPhun@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net (autox) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:48:24 EDT Subject: Re: 10th Anniversary Miatas available in MD In a message dated 4/20/99 12:05:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BurnsJB1@central.SSD.JHUAPL.edu writes: << autox@autox.team.net (autox) >> We just bought one, its now got 2,000 miles and is going to the auto-x track this Sunday for its first runs. The six speed maybe course dependent but we will be able to get a better idea during real world auto-x. The 2 tone suede leather seat inserts are really good at keeping you from sliding (and they look awesome), better than the traditionally smooth leather seats. The car also has the ABS option (one of only three options on this model) it will most likely be a dry event so the ABS might not really get a good test. Kevin"not jim"Dietz Porsche 924s MO30 CS AKA: B Stock Miata 10 AE From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 13:51:50 1999 From: Mike Shields To: autox@autox.team.net (autox) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:50:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Shauna Marinus On 04/20/99 at 12:57 PM, Don and Sharon Roberts wrote: > Check out the American Lemans series/Women's Global GT race at Road > Atlanta last week-end - although she DNF'd, she set the fastest race > lap time of 1:43.188 - the closest to that was a 1:43.587. > > Wouldn't it be too cool to see a woman running the Indy 500 again! Or, > F1 at Indy? > > Sharon Roberts Is the Women's GT series on TV anywhere? Is it broadcast with the American LeMans series? Do they race at the same time intermixed or are they a separate race? I saw something on RPM2Night (last night, Sunday??) - just the overall results and some joking about Kiki Wolfskill name. Thanks, Mike From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 14:02:33 1999 From: Ghsharp@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:01:16 EDT Subject: Re: Tire wear issues speed ratings In a message dated 4/20/99 1:54:03 PM EST, Walter Fooshee wrote: > Again, the speed rating is a measure of the carcass design, not the > tread surface characterstics. Note the previous post from Jay Mitchell > about Z-rated A032s. Umm, anyone stepped out in the garage and checked the sidewalls of their BFG's while this discussion has been going on? Mine say 245/40ZR17....... All the previous 230 R1's were Z-rated too....... GH Sharp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 14:04:17 1999 From: Tommy Regan To: "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Blown CRX It could easily be a fake, but it also could easily be a truck and tractor pull competitor judging by the obvious front end weight and rear tire tread pattern. From the "license plate" and the van in the background, it looks like it's somewhere other than the States, but I don't know where... Tommy === Tommy Regan '87 Mustang CP #16 Austin, Texas From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 14:09:02 1999 From: Whitney To: Mike Shields Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:06:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Shauna Marinus - Renee Eady too! Our own Renee Eady finished 7th in the race, after starting 15th (I think) , Great job all :) Stan Whitney From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 15:03:53 1999 From: Loren Williams To: autox-digest Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:20:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Sunfire Daniel Thomas asked: > Does anyone else autox a Pontiac Sunfire? > I have only ran 5 autocrosses in this car and have yet to > see another one. It's not an extremely common autox ride, but we do have one running here in Wichita. > I could use some info on tire and alignment settings. Should be typical FWD settings. -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 15:35:31 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Ghsharp@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Tire wear issues speed ratings uhh...maybe I'm just a dumb grunt, but it seems like Z ratings are a good idea for road race tires that might go Z rated speeds! :) Craig Blome --- Ghsharp@aol.com wrote: > > Umm, anyone stepped out in the garage and checked > the sidewalls of their > BFG's while this discussion has been going on? Mine > say 245/40ZR17....... > All the previous 230 R1's were Z-rated too....... > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 15:46:29 1999 From: JLAN041@aol.com To: mlc4@psu.edu, owner-autox@autox.team.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:44:34 EDT Subject: 93 DSM's I found a deal on a 93 Talon TSI and was wondering if this would be a viable substitution for a 95+ DSM AWD for GS. Besides the HP differance, what are the pro's and con's? John (looking for new ride) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 16:02:39 1999 From: John Galligan To: Mike Shields Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:59:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Shauna Marinus Another team-netter answered this question when i asked last week, you must have missed it. Speedvision is taping the series and will show it in the fall, i believe this info came from a Speedvision employee. God bless Speedvision, if you can't get it bug the hell out of your cable company. Yes; i think it is great to see the ladies in the limelight, it sure makes my life easier convincing my autox wife that we really do need those new tires. Go girl! John Mike Shields wrote: > On 04/20/99 at 12:57 PM, Don and Sharon Roberts wrote: > > > Check out the American Lemans series/Women's Global GT race at Road > > Atlanta last week-end - although she DNF'd, she set the fastest race > > lap time of 1:43.188 - the closest to that was a 1:43.587. > > > > Wouldn't it be too cool to see a woman running the Indy 500 again! Or, > > F1 at Indy? > > > > Sharon Roberts > Is the Women's GT series on TV anywhere? Is it broadcast with the American > LeMans series? Do they race at the same time intermixed or are they a separate > race? > > I saw something on RPM2Night (last night, Sunday??) - just the overall results > and some joking about Kiki Wolfskill name. > > Thanks, > > Mike -- John Galligan galligan@gulftel.com SCCA-Gulf Coast Region Cavalier Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 16:07:06 1999 From: Eric Moon To: autox@autox.team.net, autox@earthlink.net, phax@eng.kns.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:02:11 -0400 Subject: Susquehanna Region Web Page To All: The Susquehanna Region of the SCCA has their new web page up and running. Calendars for Regional events. Links to other Regions and Clubs. Stop by for a look! www.scca-susq.com Eric Moon Eric Moon '92 Miata SOLO II CSP e-mail: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 16:15:18 1999 From: "Dominic J. Cagliostro" To: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:12:46 -0600 Subject: 67MustangSteeringWheel I need to either repair or replace my white stock steering wheel. Most of the plastic is cracked and so it wabbles alot. Any suggestions on where I can get a repair kit or a stock replacement? Thanks, Dominic From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 16:30:19 1999 From: Gemery@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:28:46 EDT Subject: RE: Same Old Tire Cost Hash? Nah..... Scott Meyers wrote: >No wonder the Street Tire classes are huge in our and many other >areas........oops - don't want to rehash that old argument :-) You know I have to do a reality check with Oregon Region's statistics and Street Tire classes just aren't very big here. We offer an indexed Street Tire class and "standard" Street Touring classes... given that, people overwhelmingly choose to run in the R tire classes once they leave the indexed Novice class. I think we still make Novices move to a "real" class after 4 events if they haven't won, so it really is necessary to make a choice. To make the following table, I subtracted all Novice, Street Touring, Street Tire, & Time Only entries from the total entries to arrive at "Total R Tire Entries". "Total Street Tire Entries" are the combination of Street Touring and Street Tire classes. Time Only in Oregon Region is usually a second entry to gain practice rather than someone avoiding entering into a points battle. 1999 1998 1998 1998 1998 Event 1 Event 9 Event 8 Event 7 Event 6 Number of Entries 188 153 138 136 148 Novice 38 27 27 28 27 Street Touring 5 4 3 3 4 Street Tire (indexed) 3 4 4 6 9 Time Only 16 42 19 28 26 Total R Tire Entries 126 76 85 71 82 Total Street Tire Entries 8 8 7 9 13 George "I hope the formatting isn't munged" Emery gemery@aol.com http://members.aol.com/gemery From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 16:47:15 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:45:21 EDT Subject: BFG's 1999 SEDiv Solo2 Series The deadline for regular registration to compete in the opening event of the BFGoodrich 1999 SEDiv Solo2 Series is April 28. After that date *anyone* registering for the May 1-2 SEDiv Solo2 event at Atlanta Motor Speedway will be assessed a $20 late fee, in addition to the regular registration fee of $45. There is no fee for registering and not showing up to compete, sooooooo.....WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR???? I see plenty of names missing from the entry list, many of whom I know will be attending. Currently there are 83 drivers registered. BTW, the spring weather in this area has been totally awesome the last several weeks. There is also a regional event scheduled at AMS for this coming Sunday, 4/25. Online registration, event & hotel info, site location map, entry list, etc. is all available at BFGoodrich's SEDiv Solo2 Series website. Click onto the link below and get registered before the late fee kicks in: BFG's 1999 SEDiv Solo2 Series website Any questions, problems, etc. just contact me directly. Mark Sipe SEDiv Solo2 Deputy Steward (334) 286-8300 teamz3@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 16:48:18 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: Gemery@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:52:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Street Tire Classes Gemery@aol.com wrote: > > Scott Meyers wrote: > >No wonder the Street Tire classes are huge in our and many other > >areas........oops - don't want to rehash that old argument :-) > > You know I have to do a reality check with Oregon Region's statistics and > Street Tire classes just aren't very big here. We offer an indexed Street > Tire class and "standard" Street Touring classes... Our last local event at the Failure Analysis Lot (good site!) we had 137 entries, and 29 of those were Street Tire entrants. Another 28 were Novices! These numbers are pretty representational of the number of Street Tire entrants for us. We offer all SCCA Open classes, as well as PAX, PAX/L, Street Tire 1 & Street Tire 2 (cars grouped by performance potential) & Street Tire Ladies, Novice 1, Novice 2, and Novice Ladies. We have no Kart or Street Touring classes. Those who run Street Tire class here are much more than "just out of Novice", some are previous Open class competitors who just got tired of the 'tire wars', and most of the others don't want to get into it. To each their own. Scott Meyers Kumhos ordered......anyone want three used G-Force 225x50x15 with 40% tread, and one with 40% tread and one cord hole showing? Only used three weekends!!!! I'll make you a good deal :-) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 17:24:19 1999 From: Gemery@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:22:49 EDT Subject: Re: Street Tire Classes Scott Meyers wrote: > Our last local event at the Failure Analysis Lot (good site!) we had 137 > entries, and 29 of those were Street Tire entrants. Wow! If we had half that many street tire entries, I'd call it a success for Oregon. Darn, Scott, I can't remember which part of the country you're in... George Emery gemery@aol.com http://members.aol.com/gemery From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 18:35:21 1999 From: Don and Sharon Roberts To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:11:50 -0800 Subject: Shauna Marinus Oops - I erred - she didn't DNF -- and did qualify on the pole. Sharon Roberts From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 19:05:35 1999 From: Don and Sharon Roberts To: WattPhun@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:42:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Shauna Marinus Do have a suggestion to find out more about the race on the web? * * * I found it at americanlemans.com. Sharon Roberts From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 19:47:51 1999 From: Ajstratton@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:44:14 EDT Subject: G- Force Wear This may be a little simple, but they do state the tire wear is 0. Truth in advertising..... Alan Stratton GS 40 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 19:57:08 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:55:53 EDT Subject: ST class for BFG's SCCA SEDiv Series I've received several inquiries asking whether or not Street Touring is a class for the BFGoodrich 1999 SCCA SEDiv Solo2 Series. Street Touring (ST) is a class for the SEDiv Solo2 Series, per the ST class rules detailed in the 1999 SCCA Solo2 rulebook. Currently there is at least one driver registered in ST for the upcoming May 1 - 2 event at Atlanta Motor Speedway. Hopefully none of the other ST drivers will let the trophy(s) go uncontested. BFG's 1999 SEDiv Solo2 Series website M Sipe SEDiv Solo2 Deputy Steward From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 21:43:45 1999 From: joshlocklear@juno.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:40:09 -0400 Subject: Eagle GS/CS tire pressures I run a set of Goodyear Eagle GS/CS DOT road-race tires on my autox'er, and I was wondering if anyone else out there might have any experience with these tires. I saw a set advertised recently on the list, and the person said that they worked well for autocross. I bought my set used for $20, so I have no documentation. Does anyone have any recommendations for pressures. The tire size is 225/60-14's on a 2800 lb '88 camry. They don't have a whole lot of tread left (about 2 recognizable grooves). My other concern is that I seem to have a set of 4 *driver's side* tires. All of the tires have markings for inside/outside and the direction of rotation. When putting tires on the passenger side, should I foolow the inside/outside marking and let the tires rotate the wrong way, or should I follow the rotation and forget about inside/outside (since there isn't much tread anyway)?? Any help is greatly appreciated, as I'm trying to extract the maximum performance from my 20 bucks. Josh Locklear '88 Toyota Camry OVR HS #24, TSOL #5 PS- G-force's cost $11 per run?! If my calculations are correct, I'm paying about 10 CENTS a run. Now THAT's some value... and THAT's SOL. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 20 22:05:35 1999 From: Engstrom To: "'AutoCross Mailing List'" , Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:58:48 -0500 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover [SNIP] > I know this will stir it up, but I am curious on how this got past > tech inspection. I know when you go through registration they ask if > you have the required stickers and if not they have them available. > Is this rule enforceable? Should it have gotten past tech? Is this a > weenie protest waiting to happen? > > Curious, > > Gary Kramar > '89 F440 FM But Gary, you usually have to WIN the Tour to get protested...you might want to ask Eddie about it. ;-) John "Ducking to avoid things Gary is throwing at me" Engstrom From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 05:43:28 1999 From: Kat Bryce To: joshlocklear@juno.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:34:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Eagle GS/CS tire pressures I bought a used set for my Miata. For my car I run 32 - 35 #'s. I also am finding that the tires aren't finding there grip until about the 3rd run :-( Don't worry about the Rotational arrows mine are all one way too. Actually it would be impossible to use the rotational arrows. Do make sure that the inside/outside markings are correct. I was dismayed when I got to my tire shop only to find out that all four had been mounted inside out! Kat joshlocklear@juno.com wrote: > > I run a set of Goodyear Eagle GS/CS DOT road-race tires on my autox'er, > and I was wondering if anyone else out there might have any experience > with these tires. I saw a set advertised recently on the list, and the > person said that they worked well for autocross. I bought my set used > for $20, so I have no documentation. Does anyone have any > recommendations for pressures. The tire size is 225/60-14's on a 2800 lb > '88 camry. They don't have a whole lot of tread left (about 2 > recognizable grooves). My other concern is that I seem to have a set of > 4 *driver's side* tires. All of the tires have markings for > inside/outside and the direction of rotation. When putting tires on the > passenger side, should I foolow the inside/outside marking and let the > tires rotate the wrong way, or should I follow the rotation and forget > about inside/outside (since there isn't much tread anyway)?? Any help is > greatly appreciated, as I'm trying to extract the maximum performance > from my 20 bucks. > > Josh Locklear > '88 Toyota Camry > OVR HS #24, TSOL #5 > > PS- G-force's cost $11 per run?! If my calculations are correct, I'm > paying about 10 CENTS a run. Now THAT's some value... and THAT's SOL. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 05:44:08 1999 From: RJ & Bridgette To: Tommy Regan Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:42:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Blown CRX Tommy Regan wrote: > > ...but it also could easily be a truck and > tractor pull competitor... Yup, you called that one. They do things a little differently in Holland. Here are some more pics: http://www.crxclubholland.nl/images/extreem/ I can't seem to find the actual page describing their events, but I know it's _slightly_ different from our tractor/truck pulls. -RJ- whose CRX missed the first two auto-x events of this season and it's not because he's using it in sled pulls... :-( -- = '91 CRX Si CSP #95 (his) = '97 Civic EX (hers) = '92 Accord LX (the GROCERY GETTER!) = http://w3.gwis.com/~rowan/ = ICQ: 6798321 - Rowan (RJ) M. Labrador, Jr. = ICQ: 24136738 - Bridgette L. Rempel-Labrador = mailto:rowan@gwis.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 06:37:56 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover Howdy, On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Gary K wrote: > But, I still have a question. If they had enough stickers for > everyone. Is it a weenie protest? And has anyone in the past > protested because of stickers? Huh? Are you really asking if protesting a fellow competitor _for a missing sticker_ is a weenie protest? What do you think? Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 07:10:36 1999 From: steve.cirian@us.pwcglobal.com To: RiverJahnke@Yahoo.com, NeonKermit@aol.com, cashmo@execpc.com, Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:05:31 -0500 Subject: Chicago Dyno Day Update - 04/20/99 [all] This will be the last note I send to the general mailing lists on this subject, so if you want to get in, respond to me directly and I will add you to the list. I talked to Precise Auto about using their services, and here are the responses I got: 1. How much will it cost per person? This will probably be based on how many people we get. Get the cost for the whole day, and divide y the number of people. A: If we do a full day, it will be about $700. The guy said we should be able to do 10 cars easy, and they have done clubs like the Windy City Z Club with 12 cars. So if we do 10 cars, it will be $70 each person. If you want to take two slots and do some tuning, it will be $70 a slot for a total of $140. 2. How many runs each? (last time it was 1 calibration run, and 2 "real" runs, all at the same time with a short cool down between each run). If people want to do two separate sessions, and tune in between, that will be fine by me. We just need to make sure that we have enough time. A: 2 runs per slot. 3. How long will it take per person? A: 30 minutes. Getting the car on the dyno and set up will be the longest part. 4. Run through each gear? A: Didn't ask this one. 5. Can we get the results on floppy, or just hard copy? If so, 3.5" floppy? (Would probably have to bring your own.) A: Floppy 6. What dates do you have available? (Saturdays or Sundays) Given the big response, we might need to take Saturday and Sunday, or do two consecutive Saturdays or Sundays. A: I looked at the Chicago SCCA and TSSCC autox schedules, and it looks pretty busy on Sundays. I am looking at doing this either May 22 or 29, both Saturdays. Due to the large number of people I had respond, I think I will try to get both days, and we will do 10 one day, and 11 the other (if everyone decides to do this for sure). Precise Auto said they will call me back to confirm that these dates are available. Please respond to me with answers to the following: 1. Let me know which day you want, May 22 or May 29. 2. Let me know if you will want more than one session - i.e.- to make one run in the morning, do some tuning, and then make another run later in the afternoon. I might do one on one weekend, and another the second weekend. 3. If your last name is not shown below (?) please let me know what it is. 4. What kind of car do you have? 1. Steve Cirian 2. River Jahnke 3. John Brotbeck 4. Jeff Cashmore 5. Tom ? 6. Gary Meisner 7. Kenton Cabiness 8. Mike Taylor 9. Tom Jelly 10. Chris Russell 11. Rob Raymer 12. Jim ? 13. Per Schroeder 14. Lloyd Wilson 15. Nick ? 16. Alex Tziortis 17. Steve ? 18. Chris Russell's brother 19. Stephen ? 20. Kevin ? 21. Stephen Chu Precise Auto Truck Svc. 3054 N California Chicago 60618 Tel. 773-588-0111 Cheers, ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ Steve Cirian http://www.ScuderiaCiriani.com/rx7 Chicago Region SCCA '95 RX-7 TT Tri State SCC #95 A Street Prepared rx-7.net ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 07:13:56 1999 From: Eric Moon To: "Mark J. Andy" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:09:02 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover At 08:37 AM 4/21/99 -0400, Mark J. Andy wrote: >Howdy, > >On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Gary K wrote: >> But, I still have a question. If they had enough stickers for >> everyone. Is it a weenie protest? And has anyone in the past >> protested because of stickers? > >Huh? Are you really asking if protesting a fellow competitor _for a >missing sticker_ is a weenie protest? What do you think? > >Mark Personally, I would only protest if the margin was close enough......Say I came in second but only by a few hundredths. You could arguably say that the winner had an advantage due to weight savings or lack of aerodynamic turbulence caused by the leading edges of the extra stickers!!!! Eric Moon (playing the weenies advocate ;-) ) Eric Moon '92 Miata SOLO II CSP e-mail: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 07:23:38 1999 From: GSMnow@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:22:43 EDT Subject: Re: 93 DSM's In a message dated 4/21/99 2:27:46 AM Central Daylight Time,JLAN041@aol.com writes: << Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:44:34 EDT From: JLAN041@aol.com Subject: 93 DSM's I found a deal on a 93 Talon TSI and was wondering if this would be a viable substitution for a 95+ DSM AWD for GS. Besides the HP differance, what are the pro's and con's? John (looking for new ride) >> I own and have raced a 90 Talon tsi awd. The biggest cons are high ride height, 6 inch wide rims, soft springs, big turbo(spools slow), and very little you can do about alignment. For pros, it is a great street car and the big turbo can push 300 hp, where the new one quits at 225. In street prepared the older one may be the winner, but for stock I think it will be off the pace. Mine is for sale, I will make you a good deal, it only has 46,000 miles on it. Gary M. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 07:26:22 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Eric Moon , "Mark J. Andy" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover --- Eric Moon wrote: > At 08:37 AM 4/21/99 -0400, Mark J. Andy wrote: > > Personally, I would only protest if the margin was > close enough......Say I > came in second but only by a few hundredths. You > could arguably say that > the winner had an advantage due to weight savings or > lack of aerodynamic > turbulence caused by the leading edges of the extra > stickers!!!! > B-b-b-but stickers add horsepower, don't they? At least that's what the Street Touring guys told me! ;-) Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 07:51:38 1999 From: Eric Moon To: Todd Farris Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:46:45 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover >Turbo sez: > >Normally, I would not even consider a protest like that but since the SCCA >is so assanine about their decals. I would bust him to the ground. It >seems, as in many organizations, there are those that are above the rules >and get away with it. If you think I am bitter about it, I spent a lot of >money on my paint job a week before nationals. The scca in its ultimate >wisdom said I had to place the decals on my brand new paint right in the >center of one of the flames. Upon removal, I managed to pull the clear >coat off!!!!! If there was another game in town, I would play it >first!!!!!! >Turbo Toddie >CP96 Turbo Trans Am That definitely sucks a**, dude!! However, it could have been avoided. Next time try this trick: Use electrical tape, stuck to the adhesive side of the required decal. Cover the entire adhesive area with the sticky side of the electrical tape out, in place of the sticker's adhesive backing. Trim any excess tape. Electrical tape has a very low tack, and comes off super-duper easy without marring paint!!! That's what I do when I have to put an 'ugly' sticker on my car for the day or weekend. Try it!! Eric Eric Moon '92 Miata SOLO II CSP e-mail: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 08:05:06 1999 From: Terry Green To: TEAM NET Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:00:49 -0500 Subject: WTB; 13x5.5 wheels hey all. I am looking for a good used set of wheels 13x5.5, 4 on 3.75 pattern, thanks Terry Green From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 08:10:12 1999 From: Jarrod Igou To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:12:55 -0500 Subject: Re: 93 DSM's You'll find that the 1994 and older DSMs tend to be more "raw" than the 95+. The older cars have a bigger turbo, which spools up a bit slower than the newer ones...but, it also pushes a little more air once it's spooled up. Being a newbie, I'm still getting used to autocross, but having owned a 91 Talon TSI (for two years, sold it last week), I'll refer you to the mother of all DSM sites on the Web, http://www.dsm.org. If you click on the link for "The Auto-X Files" on the right-hand column, you'll find info from Dennis Grant about his 97 AWD and Farzaan Kassam about his 92 AWD. Oh, and there's a TON of other good info there about the cars, too. Incidentally, does anyone know of a source of information anywhere NEAR as complete as the DSM site for Acura Integras? I replaced my DSM with a 99 GSR last week, and I'm looking to start learning....but I haven't found any central repository like this for the Integra. Jarrod Igou '99 Acura Integra GSR Des Moines Valley Region JLAN041@aol.com wrote: > >I found a deal on a 93 Talon TSI and was wondering if this would be a viable >substitution for a 95+ DSM AWD for GS. Besides the HP differance, what are >the pro's and con's? > >John >(looking for new ride) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 08:17:57 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:01:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire wear issues speed ratings Exactly! The discussion has been tread wear, and one of us feels that Z-rated means it would last longer, but the rest of us can't figure out quite why he feels that way. You, for one, are not a dumb grunt. Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT Craig Blome wrote: > > uhh...maybe I'm just a dumb grunt, but it seems like Z > ratings are a good idea for road race tires that might > go Z rated speeds! :) > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 08:45:51 1999 From: Brad Wager To: autox Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:45:38 -0400 Subject: RE 10th Anniversary Miatas I have seen 4 10th Anniversary Miatas in the last two weeks 1 at Thelen Bay city michigan 800-800-7158 1 at Garber in saginaw michigan 517-791-9950 and 2 at a dealer in South bend ,IN I don,nt have there number, just thought somebody might be interested the stickers were in the 28,000 range. Brad Wager TLS #69 fixeruper@sensible-net.com 300zx DS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 08:54:49 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:53:43 EDT Subject: one of my favorite topics In a message dated 4/20/99 10:08:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: << You'll all, in your infinite wisdom, tell me that for some magic reason tires cannot be regulated. They are too complex for that ... black magic, if you will. >> That is what many teamdotnetters will say. But not all will say that. Of course it would be possible to regulate tires. First though there would have to be the will to do it among those who have the time and energy to devote to such matters as being on SCAC or SEB or being movers-and-shakers in the SCCA. Those good folks aren't of a mind to change the tire rule to oust racing rubber from the stock category so it isn't going to happen anytime soon. Probably never. As for what the rule should or could be and how it would be enforced... People who are, I am sure, honest and sincere have said to me that durometers only measure softness not grip. I have had anecdotal stories presented in evidence of that assertion. While I concede that softness and grip might not always be in EXACT correlation I shall continue to believe that they track close enough together to form a part of a useful detection and enforcement procedure until I am shown data from extensive, controlled scientific testing proving the contrary. Along with durometer testing treadwear ratings would form another component of the procedure. An exclusion list would flow from that. This is a subject that some pretend to hate but it always draws enough verbiage that I can't help believing that many of my fellow cone-destroyers really enjoy these little keyboard jousts. Ray Elliott Norfolk, Va. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 09:06:46 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: "Mark J. Andy" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:07:17 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover "Mark J. Andy" wrote: > Huh? Are you really asking if protesting a fellow competitor _for a > missing sticker_ is a weenie protest? What do you think? Such a protest would normally be filed by the Chief of Impound, not by a competitor. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 09:19:46 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Mark Sirota'" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:19:05 -0500 Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover > "Mark J. Andy" wrote: > > Huh? Are you really asking if protesting a fellow competitor _for a > > missing sticker_ is a weenie protest? What do you think? > > Such a protest would normally be filed by the Chief of Impound, not by > a competitor. > > Mark --- Mark: Just because Im new at Divisional (and hopefully National) level competition, what protests can a competitor make..and not make specifically. And..other than having my service manual handy..and any "event stickers" on the car..what else would I not have at a regional event I will need. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 09:28:51 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: "Mohler, Jeff" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:29:13 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > Just because Im new at Divisional (and hopefully National) level > competition, what protests can a competitor make..and not make > specifically. A competitor can protest just about anything against another competitor. He can also protest the event for a variety of things, including timing and scoring errors, etc. > And..other than having my service manual handy..and any "event > stickers" on the car..what else would I not have at a regional event I > will need. That's really about it (service manual and appropriate stickers). Also be sure that your numbers and class letters conform to Section 3.7. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 09:32:30 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Mark Sirota'" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:32:12 -0500 Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover > > And..other than having my service manual handy..and any "event > > stickers" on the car..what else would I not have at a regional event I > > will need. > > That's really about it (service manual and appropriate stickers). Also > be sure that your numbers and class letters conform to Section 3.7. --- Yeah, we were specific on those, 8" tall, fat ENGLISH readable letters and numbes. As long as im not using tape, marker, blood, or paint on a window..im probly pretty safe with the Magnetics I have. Someone would really look small for protesting a letter a 1/4" too short *heh* From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 09:47:26 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: "Mohler, Jeff" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:47:51 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > Someone would really look small for protesting a letter a 1/4" too > short *heh* Such a protest would normally be filed by the Chief of Timing and Scoring, not by a competitor. And it's usually due to lack of contrast rather than numbers slightly too small. As someone who works frequently in T&S at big events, PLEASE make sure your numbers are highly readable. 3.7 isn't just a good idea, it's the law! :-) Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 09:58:03 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Mark Sirota'" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:58:02 -0500 Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover How about white vinyl on a black car? *chuckle* http://www.tgn.net/~gemohler/vr4/Dc0014l.jpg if you're curious. This was at a recent Ralley Cross event. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sirota [SMTP:msirota@isc.upenn.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 10:48 AM > To: Mohler, Jeff > Cc: autox mailing list > Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover > > "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > > Someone would really look small for protesting a letter a 1/4" too > > short *heh* > > Such a protest would normally be filed by the Chief of Timing and > Scoring, not by a competitor. > > And it's usually due to lack of contrast rather than numbers slightly > too small. > > As someone who works frequently in T&S at big events, PLEASE make sure > your numbers are highly readable. 3.7 isn't just a good idea, it's the > law! :-) > > Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 10:14:42 1999 From: John Galligan To: programming@speedvision.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:12:12 -0500 Subject: Ladie's LeMans I would like to thank you on for the continued support that Speedvision has given to motor sports, specifically amatuer motor sports. Speedvision is the reason that i became a DirectTV customer, and i am not disappointed. I understand that you have taped the Ladie's LeMans series this past weekend, and plan to show the entire series this fall. Would it be possible to show this series at a more timely date? I realize that you have other commitments, would showing it at a early morning hour be possible, the VCR is a wonderful thing, and i PROMISE to watch all the commercials; twice. Again; thanks for the great job that Speedvision does, and i look forward to your favorable response. John Galligan -- John Galligan galligan@gulftel.com SCCA-Gulf Coast Region Cavalier Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 10:22:40 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: wfooshee@csi.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:21:45 CDT Subject: Re: Tire wear issues speed ratings It seems to me that the only workable tire regulation would be to mandate a spec tire - which IMHO may be fine for some pro race series, but its not my idea of the way SCCA Solo should go. As much as I dread the costlier, shorter-lived g-Farce becoming the de-facto standard, I accept it as one of several options. I don't know how I'll respond to it. My race budget forces me to maximize bang-for-the-buck, but I did buy a pair of g-Farces to satisfy my curiosity. Kumhos or Toyos could be in my future if I get the same short-life experience I'm reading about, since spins and lockups are still a fact of life for me. -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 10:38:26 1999 From: John Galligan To: Craig Blome Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:35:56 -0500 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover Stickers definitely do add horsepower, but it is illegal ( read weenie protest ) to put them on upside down, this would be an unfair advantage. John, boy do i have stickers, Galligan ST Craig Blome wrote: > --- Eric Moon wrote: > > At 08:37 AM 4/21/99 -0400, Mark J. Andy wrote: > > > > Personally, I would only protest if the margin was > > close enough......Say I > > came in second but only by a few hundredths. You > > could arguably say that > > the winner had an advantage due to weight savings or > > lack of aerodynamic > > turbulence caused by the leading edges of the extra > > stickers!!!! > > > > B-b-b-but stickers add horsepower, don't they? At > least that's what the Street Touring guys told me! > ;-) > > Craig Blome > Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX -- John Galligan galligan@gulftel.com SCCA-Gulf Coast Region Cavalier Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 11:23:30 1999 From: John Whitling To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:25:44 -0400 Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics Politically Ray, durometer readings and such will never be accepted. Technically it's possible and the ASA racing series has used durometers to measure/test tires for a long long time. In the past I have made proposals based on what you propose. The Solo group needs something simpler than that though. A "Z" rated tire has to be built to withstand the heat of long periods of high speed (over 149 mph for 1 hour, I believe). In doing so, tire construction and compounding is affected. Those that say that a Z rating only affects the carcass are not correct. The tread compound has a lot to do with how much heat is developed and how much heat it can take. As every racer probably knows, softer compounds cannot withstand much heat. Therefore, if we were embrace a minimum speed rating for specialty type R tires, say a Z rating, tire companies could continue to produce specialty performance tires that we could use. IMO, specialty tires are the cheapest way to autox competitively. But that's another subject. The SCCA should have an interest in creating a single tire rule across club racing and autox. The tire companies would like this because they could compete in both arenas with only one set of rules. Autocross would get more tire participation (something that a dominant tire company might not want) and club racers could sell their takeoffs to autoxers ... and tire companies would have just one set of rules and a development arena that would relate to street tire development. Whether the divergent SCCA divisions can do anything in one voice is open to debate. It would be interesting to see them try to. What we're seeing with the early reports of the G Force aren't any different than what we saw in '89 when BFG produced it's solo only edition of the R1. In two years after, we lost Yoko and their Nationals sponsorship, and all other tire companies in stock class solo. Can that happen again? Why not? John Whitling RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/20/99 10:08:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: > > << You'll all, in your > infinite wisdom, tell me that for some magic reason tires cannot be > regulated. They are too complex for that ... black magic, if you will. >> > > That is what many teamdotnetters will say. But not all will say that. Of > course it would be possible to regulate tires. First though there would have > to be the will to do it among those who have the time and energy to devote to > such matters as being on SCAC or SEB or being movers-and-shakers in the SCCA. > Those good folks aren't of a mind to change the tire rule to oust racing > rubber from the stock category so it isn't going to happen anytime soon. > Probably never. > As for what the rule should or could be and how it would be enforced... > People who are, I am sure, honest and sincere have said to me that > durometers only measure softness not grip. I have had anecdotal stories > presented in evidence of that assertion. While I concede that softness and > grip might not always be in EXACT correlation I shall continue to believe > that they track close enough together to form a part of a useful detection > and enforcement procedure until I am shown data from extensive, controlled > scientific testing proving the contrary. > Along with durometer testing treadwear ratings would form another > component of the procedure. An exclusion list would flow from that. > This is a subject that some pretend to hate but it always draws enough > verbiage that I can't help believing that many of my fellow cone-destroyers > really enjoy these little keyboard jousts. > > Ray Elliott > Norfolk, Va. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 11:26:20 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [BOUNCE autox@Autox.Team.Net: Message too long (>10000 chars)] From: DUELRACER@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:24:01 EDT Subject: FOR SALE: 87 Toyota Corolla FX-16 GTS I have an 87 FX-16 GTS for sale. The car has 169,000 miles on it and is pretty decent shape. Autocross car in ES, will be moved to HS next year. Car has new muffler system, Tokico shocks, K&N air filter, new radiator, Major tuneup, timing belt about 5,000 miles back, and new clutch with less than 5,000 miles. Comes with extra rims for race tires. Black with black interior. Asking $1,500. Too many cars must get rid of some. Also an 84 Nissan Maxima with Straight 6 and 168,000 miles. Slight dents in front fenders. Body rust on back wheel wells. Silver on silver. Good running car needs a good home. Asking $800. contact Paul Poore at (913)-342-4831 or at Duelracer@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 11:28:45 1999 From: DUELRACER@aol.com To: Autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:27:34 EDT Subject: Street Tire classes Here in the Kansas City area, we have had the Street Tire Class for about 5 years now. It was a way for the Crown Autocross Club and the KCRSCCA to get new people to our events and sign up, without being scared to run with all the regulars that had Yoko's, BFG's, and Hoosier's. It has worked out very well for us, so good in fact that Crown has gone to a more structured class system. Last year out of our 8 events we had 180 in the street tire class. But out of all of those, only 30 had been in three or more events and only 9 had been in 5 or more to qualify for a trophy. It was suggested to us that with this many in a field that we could get more to keep coming back if we broke the Street Tire class down to smaller fields. So, by following the Arizona region's lead, we now have three classes. Novice Street Tire, to be eligible for this class you must have been in four or less events in the past two years. Once you have entered in this class you can stay there for the entire season, but no trophies are awarded, you can move to the open Street Tire classes and carry your points with you. Street Tire 1, for the horsepower classes, and Street Tire 2 for the handling classes. We had our first event out at a pretty large site this past Sunday and had 85 entries. Out of those entries we had a total number of 31 in the Street Tire classes. 13 of those in Novice, 10 in ST1, and 8 in ST2. Our problem was getting the new guys to come and race, get hooked and then come back. We seem to have fixed that with this new system and a lot have said they will be back. We give 5 runs to all first time Autocrossers and a 50% discount to those that have never raced with Crown before. So, instead of paying $20, they pay $10. Also to help get things started in the first heat we offer 5 runs to all that have signed up for heat 1. After the end of our season I will let you know the statistics of the Street Tire classes and how many decided to come back. Paul "to the floor" Poore Secretary Crown Autocross Club visit our website at Http://members.aol.com/crownac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 11:41:09 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:33:11 -0500 Subject: Joe Goeke Joe are you out there. Please send me you address. Thanks Rob From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 11:46:06 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:42:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Street Tire classes I really appreciate the constructive comments on street tire classes, as its a pet project for me and one that San Diego Region has expressed an interest in exploring more fully. It's clear that it can be both popular and draw new players. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 -----Original Message----- From: DUELRACER@aol.com To: Autox@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 10:31 AM Subject: Street Tire classes >Here in the Kansas City area, we have had the Street Tire Class for about 5 >years now. It was a way for the Crown Autocross Club and the KCRSCCA to get >new people to our events and sign up, without being scared to run with all >the regulars that had Yoko's, BFG's, and Hoosier's. It has worked out very >well for us, so good in fact that Crown has gone to a more structured class >system. Last year out of our 8 events we had 180 in the street tire class. >But out of all of those, only 30 had been in three or more events and only 9 >had been in 5 or more to qualify for a trophy. It was suggested to us that >with this many in a field that we could get more to keep coming back if we >broke the Street Tire class down to smaller fields. So, by following the >Arizona region's lead, we now have three classes. > >Novice Street Tire, to be eligible for this class you must have been in four >or less events in the past two years. Once you have entered in this class >you can stay there for the entire season, but no trophies are awarded, you >can move to the open Street Tire classes and carry your points with you. > >Street Tire 1, for the horsepower classes, and Street Tire 2 for the handling >classes. We had our first event out at a pretty large site this past Sunday >and had 85 entries. Out of those entries we had a total number of 31 in the >Street Tire classes. 13 of those in Novice, 10 in ST1, and 8 in ST2. > >Our problem was getting the new guys to come and race, get hooked and then >come back. We seem to have fixed that with this new system and a lot have >said they will be back. We give 5 runs to all first time Autocrossers and a >50% discount to those that have never raced with Crown before. So, instead >of paying $20, they pay $10. Also to help get things started in the first >heat we offer 5 runs to all that have signed up for heat 1. After the end of >our season I will let you know the statistics of the Street Tire classes and >how many decided to come back. > >Paul "to the floor" Poore Secretary Crown Autocross Club >visit our website at Http://members.aol.com/crownac/ > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 12:02:54 1999 From: "Kent Rafferty" To: "Jeff Blankenship" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:57:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Tire wear issues speed ratings How about an exclusion list? It may be simplistic, but sometimes simple is a good thing :-) Start with the exclusion of R-tires, then add tires to the exclusion list that don't meet the "spirit" of the rules - say, those supermegabuck Pirelli-lop-ahamas. The most anyone would be out if their brand is added to the list would be a set or two of (shaved?) tires. I imagine eventually we'd still be down to a spec tire or three for the more serious competitors, but at least then someone just off the street would have more in common with the class leaders. Now its a different prep league altogether - R tires vs regular street tires is like a Stock car running against an SP car. Eventually a manufacturer may come out with a dominating R tire that's good for ONE event - then what happens? I already spend WAAY too much on tires..... Just IMO, Kent Rafferty >It seems to me that the only workable tire regulation would be to mandate >a spec tire - which IMHO may be fine for some pro race series, but its not >my idea of the way SCCA Solo should go. > >As much as I dread the costlier, shorter-lived g-Farce becoming the >de-facto standard, I accept it as one of several options. I don't >know how I'll respond to it. My race budget forces me to maximize >bang-for-the-buck, but I did buy a pair of g-Farces to satisfy my >curiosity. Kumhos or Toyos could be in my future if I get the >same short-life experience I'm reading about, since spins and lockups are >still a fact of life for me. >-- >Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant >jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS >neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 12:03:45 1999 From: JLAN041@aol.com To: jigou@raq1.raquet.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:00:38 EDT Subject: Re: Re: 93 DSM's Thanks everyone for the responses. You have confirmed my suspicions. I have a/xed my brother's Pro-Rally prepared 91 GSX and did think it kinda sucked, but I thought maybe it was his set-up (HKS, rally springs, etc.) Guess not! Thanks John ( no 1G DSM ) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 12:13:50 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "John Whitling" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:00:10 -0500 Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics John said: >Those that say that a Z rating only affects the carcass are not correct. Yeah we are. A soft compound can be part of a tire with the requisite heat-dissipation characteristics. Witness the Yokohama A032 cited earlier. > The >tread compound has a lot to do with how much heat is developed and how much heat >it can take. As every racer probably knows, softer compounds cannot withstand >much heat. You're trying to say, by implication, that a Z-rated tire will intrinsically have longer tread life than one with a lower speed rating. And you're just wrong about that. >Therefore, if we were embrace a minimum speed rating for specialty type R tires, >say a Z rating, tire companies could continue to produce specialty performance >tires that we could use. As GH already pointed out, the tires you seem to have so much against ALREADY have a Z rating. Ergo, your proposal will have zero effect on those tires. Zip. Denada. Zilch. >Autocross would get more tire >participation (something that a dominant tire company might not want) and club >racers could sell their takeoffs to autoxers They can do that now, although, if you really want to be competitive, you'll get new tires, not cycled-out ones. Answer my original question: exactly HOW do the IT tire rules differ from Solo II tire rules? I see the same tire designs used in both areas, and I'm not aware of any differences. >What we're seeing with the early reports of the G Force aren't any different than >what we saw in '89 when BFG produced it's solo only edition of the R1. In two >years after, we lost Yoko and their Nationals sponsorship, and all other tire >companies in stock class solo. We did NOT lose Yokohama in two years. I went to the Solo II Nationals in 92 and 93, and Yokohama was not only there, they sponsored those events. They chose to stop providing direct event support in 1994, FIVE years after, according to you, the world ended. Hoosier has been there all along, in the form of independent distributors. And now there's Kumho. You're trying to create the perception of a problem - lack of competion among tire manufacturers - when the facts clearly say otherwise. What is really motivating all this? Anyone who is unhappy with BFGs has at least two other competitive options in DOT competition tires. It's never been any better than this, and you're trying to get us to believe the sky is falling. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 12:20:32 1999 From: Michael Knapp To: "'Jay Mitchell'" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:19:26 -0700 Subject: RE: one of my favorite topics An additional thought, if the treadwear number is related to hardness/softness of the tire, and the requirement is that tires have a minimum treadwear rating of 150 (pick a number). Does that not solve the problem. I do beleive that DOT specifies the requirement for the treadwear (could be wrong). Mike Knapp TLS #318 (Pro Street Tire) -----Original Message----- From: Jay Mitchell [SMTP:jemitchell@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:00 To: John Whitling; RacerRay52@aol.com Cc: autox@autox.team.net Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics John said: >Those that say that a Z rating only affects the carcass are not correct. Yeah we are. A soft compound can be part of a tire with the requisite heat-dissipation characteristics. Witness the Yokohama A032 cited earlier. > The >tread compound has a lot to do with how much heat is developed and how much heat >it can take. As every racer probably knows, softer compounds cannot withstand >much heat. You're trying to say, by implication, that a Z-rated tire will intrinsically have longer tread life than one with a lower speed rating. And you're just wrong about that. >Therefore, if we were embrace a minimum speed rating for specialty type R tires, >say a Z rating, tire companies could continue to produce specialty performance >tires that we could use. As GH already pointed out, the tires you seem to have so much against ALREADY have a Z rating. Ergo, your proposal will have zero effect on those tires. Zip. Denada. Zilch. >Autocross would get more tire >participation (something that a dominant tire company might not want) and club >racers could sell their takeoffs to autoxers They can do that now, although, if you really want to be competitive, you'll get new tires, not cycled-out ones. Answer my original question: exactly HOW do the IT tire rules differ from Solo II tire rules? I see the same tire designs used in both areas, and I'm not aware of any differences. >What we're seeing with the early reports of the G Force aren't any different than >what we saw in '89 when BFG produced it's solo only edition of the R1. In two >years after, we lost Yoko and their Nationals sponsorship, and all other tire >companies in stock class solo. We did NOT lose Yokohama in two years. I went to the Solo II Nationals in 92 and 93, and Yokohama was not only there, they sponsored those events. They chose to stop providing direct event support in 1994, FIVE years after, according to you, the world ended. Hoosier has been there all along, in the form of independent distributors. And now there's Kumho. You're trying to create the perception of a problem - lack of competion among tire manufacturers - when the facts clearly say otherwise. What is really motivating all this? Anyone who is unhappy with BFGs has at least two other competitive options in DOT competition tires. It's never been any better than this, and you're trying to get us to believe the sky is falling. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 12:36:34 1999 From: "Moore, John" To: Autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:39:13 -0500 Subject: RE: Street Tire classes I haven't yet seen anyone describe the way the Chicago Regon SCCA and the Tri-State SportsCar Council handles street tires. If this is redundant info, then just ignore me, i'm working on 4 projects at once right now. Our street tire class allows any tires that are 140 tread wear or more. Cars are indexed within the class according to the RTP index of the car if it was running in its respective non-street tire class. I ran this class last year and it creates a class that has competition that is pretty fair. At the start of the year last year and this year we started with over 50 street tire cars. Towards the end of the season the number drops to 30 or less, at one event as few as 13 last year. But most of the time last year the street tire field had mostly the same people all season and most where people who also where in the Chicago Region Solo II class at the start of the year. This year, almost all have moved on to R tires, except for a few who didn't feel they could afford it. John Moore 1993 Toyota MR2 NA > -----Original Message----- > From: richard nichols [SMTP:rnichol1@san.rr.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 12:43 PM > To: DUELRACER@aol.com; Autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Street Tire classes > > I really appreciate the constructive comments on street tire classes, as > its > a pet project for me and one that San Diego Region has expressed an > interest > in exploring more fully. It's clear that it can be both popular and draw > new players. > > Richard Nichols > rnichol1@san.rr.com > 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? > > 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored > On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, > June 99 through January 00 > -----Original Message----- > From: DUELRACER@aol.com > To: Autox@autox.team.net > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 10:31 AM > Subject: Street Tire classes > > > >Here in the Kansas City area, we have had the Street Tire Class for about > 5 > >years now. It was a way for the Crown Autocross Club and the KCRSCCA to > get > >new people to our events and sign up, without being scared to run with > all > >the regulars that had Yoko's, BFG's, and Hoosier's. It has worked out > very > >well for us, so good in fact that Crown has gone to a more structured > class > >system. Last year out of our 8 events we had 180 in the street tire > class. > >But out of all of those, only 30 had been in three or more events and > only > 9 > >had been in 5 or more to qualify for a trophy. It was suggested to us > that > >with this many in a field that we could get more to keep coming back if > we > >broke the Street Tire class down to smaller fields. So, by following the > >Arizona region's lead, we now have three classes. > > > >Novice Street Tire, to be eligible for this class you must have been in > four > >or less events in the past two years. Once you have entered in this > class > >you can stay there for the entire season, but no trophies are awarded, > you > >can move to the open Street Tire classes and carry your points with you. > > > >Street Tire 1, for the horsepower classes, and Street Tire 2 for the > handling > >classes. We had our first event out at a pretty large site this past > Sunday > >and had 85 entries. Out of those entries we had a total number of 31 in > the > >Street Tire classes. 13 of those in Novice, 10 in ST1, and 8 in ST2. > > > >Our problem was getting the new guys to come and race, get hooked and > then > >come back. We seem to have fixed that with this new system and a lot > have > >said they will be back. We give 5 runs to all first time Autocrossers > and > a > >50% discount to those that have never raced with Crown before. So, > instead > >of paying $20, they pay $10. Also to help get things started in the > first > >heat we offer 5 runs to all that have signed up for heat 1. After the > end > of > >our season I will let you know the statistics of the Street Tire classes > and > >how many decided to come back. > > > >Paul "to the floor" Poore Secretary Crown Autocross Club > >visit our website at Http://members.aol.com/crownac/ > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 12:47:07 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net, Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:41:14 -0400 Subject: NOPI Solo II Run group changes & Run/work order 1999 NOPI Solo II Series Schedule Run/work heats (includes corresponding ladies' classes). Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO, BP, CP Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, ST, STR, STU Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, EP, DP, KMJr. Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, KM April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 12:50:59 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net, Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:37:33 -0400 Subject: Updated Atlanta SCCA NOPI Solo II Schedule *Please* note changes in run groups!! Atlanta Region SCCA NOPI 1999 Solo II Series (Pre-register on-line at www.atl-scca.org) Competitors will run/work with their own class. The Run/Work "heats" will be rotated each event (see the run/work schedule above the calendar). · Session Procedures Morning Afternoon · Course set-up 7:00 - 8:30 · Registration and Tech 8:00 - 9:30 11:00 - 12:30 · Driver's meeting 9:35 12:35 · Run Sessions (approximately) 10:00 - 12:30 1:00 - 4:30 · Course tear-down at end of event · Event Supplemental Regulations · All entrants must work during the session(s) they run · Work assignments will be given at registration · Out of town, novice and "Time Only" entrants will be allowed to run in either session, no matter what class they are in. · "Time Only" entrants may enter both morning and afternoon sessions if they pay the additional entry fee · Entrants who don't run at the same time as their class will run for "Time Only" except for out-of-town guests 1999 NOPI Solo II Series Schedule Run/work heats (includes corresponding ladies' classes). Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO, BP, CP Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, ST, STR, STU Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, EP, DP, KMJr. Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, KM The following run/work schedule will be followed throughout the season: March 27 School AMS March 28 Points # 1: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow April 18 Points #2: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) May 16 Points #4: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green June 26 School AMS June 27 Points #5: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow July 25 Points #6: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue August 14 Points #7: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red August 15 Points #8: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green August 28-29 SEDIV Perry, GA (must be an SCCA member) September 18-19 NOPINationals AMS October 10 Points #9: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow October 24 Points #10: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue November 7 ChampionofChampions AMS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 13:01:11 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:01:49 -0500 Subject: Saturday NeOkla AutoX Due to the cancellation of the weekend Provisional Pro Solo (NO complaints about OK are allowed from ppl who didnt register *grin*) We will be running the course we designed on Saturday, as a test & tune event. Registration closes at 10am. This will be on the Muskogee concrete pad everyone marvels about, and it looks like it might be a really nice day. This is to offset the Sunday schedules in the immediate areas. http://www.neokla-scca.org for details From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 13:14:05 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:20:35 -0400 Subject: Atlanta NOPI S2 April 25th Atlanta Region will be hosting a NOPI Solo II event at Atlanta Motor Speedway, Sunday April 25th. Entry fees are $20 for SCCA members and $25 for non-members. Come out and practice for the first SEDIV coming up on May 1-2 at this same site. Out of town guests and Novices can enter either the morning session (beginning at 8 a.m.) or the afternoon session (beginning at 11:00 a.m.). Pre-registration for the event on April 25th can be done on the Atlanta Region Website at: and jump to the Solo II registration page. You may also pre-register for the SEDIV Series of events at: Please pre-register because this will speed up our events. If you are an Atlanta Region member running for points the following Run/Work order must be followed: Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO, BP, CP Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, ST, STR, STU Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, EP, DP, KMJr., Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, KM The following run/work schedule will be followed throughout the season: April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 13:27:27 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Kent Rafferty" , "autocross list" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:24:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire wear issues speed ratings Kent sez: >Start with the exclusion of R-tires, then >add tires to the exclusion list that don't meet the "spirit" of the rules - Why don't you try to DEFINE the "spirit" of the rules first? THERE'S where you run into insurmountable problems. Most folks mean "I don't want HIM to spend any more money on tires (or his car, or shocks, or....) than I'M willing to spend." I think this is the source of most of the sky-is-falling alarmist posts on this subject. The complainers perceive that "the other guy" is spending lots more money on the sport than they are, and they want the rules changed to stop that. It's not possible, and you might as well face up to that reality. You can't prevent me from trailering my car, you can't prevent me from buying new tires (or shocks, or a motor, or even a CAR, fergoshsakes) for every event. If I've got the money and I'm willing to spend it on autox, I'm gonna find a way to do so. Attempts to make that illegal will always fail. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 13:28:04 1999 From: John Whitling To: Jay Mitchell Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:29:37 -0400 Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics Well I guess I'm going to have to respond to the points you make. And you're correct about much of what you say. However ... "Witness the Yokohama A032 cited earlier." I seriously don't see what that example proves at all. Speed ratings are the result of a lot of factors. Carcass, compound, etc. The fact that Yokohama (and others) have different speed ratings in the same tire lines only indicates that there are constructions differences ... most likely belt changes. Compound differences? Not likely. Carcass differences? Most likely. My arguement is that a Z speed rating would limit the softness that a tread compound can endure. Obviously we differ on this. I've sent email to Goodyear racing, BFG, Kumho, and Yokohama to see what response I'll get to this question. I'll forward them when I have any responses. In the meantime, my proposal was not based at changing the the way that R tires have been for the last few years. It's designed to keep tire issues from getting out of hand, as I claim was the case back when. And that's what's motivating all this. If we can find a simple way to put up a limit for tire companies we won't see any more seasons where we lose participants because they cannot afford to race as often as they would like to. As far as having a single set of tire rules across the club racers and autocrossers .... Historically there have been tires allowed to compete in club racing that are not allowed in solo. Maybe those issues have dissapated for now. It wasn't long ago that you couldn't run Goodyear GSC's race tire in autox, for instance. You probably can now. More importantly, it would be another way of keeping an autocross only tire from appearing on the scene. John Whitling Jay Mitchell wrote: > John said: > > >Those that say that a Z rating only affects the carcass are not > correct. > > Yeah we are. A soft compound can be part of a tire with the > requisite heat-dissipation characteristics. Witness the Yokohama > A032 cited earlier. > > > The > >tread compound has a lot to do with how much heat is developed > and how much heat > >it can take. As every racer probably knows, softer compounds > cannot withstand > >much heat. > > You're trying to say, by implication, that a Z-rated tire will > intrinsically have longer tread life than one with a lower speed > rating. And you're just wrong about that. > > >Therefore, if we were embrace a minimum speed rating for > specialty type R tires, > >say a Z rating, tire companies could continue to produce > specialty performance > >tires that we could use. > > As GH already pointed out, the tires you seem to have so much > against ALREADY have a Z rating. Ergo, your proposal will have > zero effect on those tires. Zip. Denada. Zilch. > > >Autocross would get more tire > >participation (something that a dominant tire company might not > want) and club > >racers could sell their takeoffs to autoxers > > They can do that now, although, if you really want to be > competitive, you'll get new tires, not cycled-out ones. Answer my > original question: exactly HOW do the IT tire rules differ from > Solo II tire rules? I see the same tire designs used in both > areas, and I'm not aware of any differences. > > >What we're seeing with the early reports of the G Force aren't > any different than > >what we saw in '89 when BFG produced it's solo only edition of > the R1. In two > >years after, we lost Yoko and their Nationals sponsorship, and > all other tire > >companies in stock class solo. > > We did NOT lose Yokohama in two years. I went to the Solo II > Nationals in 92 and 93, and Yokohama was not only there, they > sponsored those events. They chose to stop providing direct event > support in 1994, FIVE years after, according to you, the world > ended. Hoosier has been there all along, in the form of > independent distributors. And now there's Kumho. You're trying to > create the perception of a problem - lack of competion among tire > manufacturers - when the facts clearly say otherwise. > > What is really motivating all this? Anyone who is unhappy with > BFGs has at least two other competitive options in DOT > competition tires. It's never been any better than this, and > you're trying to get us to believe the sky is falling. > > Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 14:37:06 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:35:24 -0500 Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics Again, check out the speed rating on the tires in question. On Tire Rack's competition tire site, EVERY G-FORCE LISTED HAS A Z RATING!!!! Also every Hoosier radial, every Kuhmo of at least 15", and every A032 Yoko of at least 16". So again, how can we say that a Z rating carries a guaranty of good tread life? You've said that any racer knows that a soft compound can't stand up to the heat. A couple of years ago at the Daytona 24 hour race, I walked by the Yokohama trailer and watched them truing tires for the Momo Ferrari. I picked up some of the shavings, and that summer set a piece on the street. Over the afternoon it melted in the sunlight enough to flatten into the pavement! Yet this soft rubber stood up to two or three hours of abuse, hard braking, heavy acceleration, multi-G cornering, and 180+ speeds on the banking. Granted, this is not a DOT-rated tire, but you can't tell us that soft compounds can't handle speed. While writing this, it just hit me where John and I look at this differently. The speed rating is not a rating of how a tire resists heat! It's a rating of how fast the tire can go and maintain its temperature rating (A, B, or C). Like I said before, the speed rating shows how well it dissipates heat or resists heat buildup. A Z-rated tire with an A temperature rating doing 175 MPH is NOT a hot tire. The A temp rating means it runs cooler than a B or C tire, even at its rated speed. A Z rating is not an expectation of resistance to high temperatures, it's a demonstrated ability to stay cool at high speed. If it can stay cool, you can use softer rubber on the tread. Still, tread temperature is a measure of road friction (i.e. sliding), not tire construction. An overheated tread is one that has been abused by wheelspin, lockup, excessive slip angles, whatever. Speed rating doesn't have anything to do with that. Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 14:47:03 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:45:45 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover Craig Blome wrote: > B-b-b-but stickers add horsepower, don't they? At > least that's what the Street Touring guys told me! Shhh! Stop giving away my secrets! DG Pushing 900HP post-graphics (http://www.wincom.net/trog/newcar.jpg) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 14:57:54 1999 From: Phil Esra To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: re: May 1999 Cover From: "Mohler, Jeff" >Yeah, we were specific on those, 8" tall, fat ENGLISH readable >letters and numbes. English? Hmm. My number (16) and class designation (ST) are in Spanish on the driver's side, and in French on the passenger's side. I got through one divisional without being protested; we'll see what happens at the Atwater Pro... multicultural protest bait Phil Esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 15:13:58 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:11:05 -0500 Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics Theoretically, but in practive the treadwear number is arbitrary, and set by the manufacturer. Michael Knapp wrote: > > An additional thought, if the treadwear number is related to > hardness/softness of the tire, and the requirement is that tires have a > minimum treadwear rating of 150 (pick a number). Does that not solve the > problem. I do beleive that DOT specifies the requirement for the treadwear > (could be wrong). > > Mike Knapp > TLS #318 > (Pro Street Tire) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay Mitchell [SMTP:jemitchell@compuserve.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:00 > To: John Whitling; RacerRay52@aol.com > Cc: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics > > John said: > > >Those that say that a Z rating only affects the carcass are not > correct. > > Yeah we are. A soft compound can be part of a tire with the > requisite heat-dissipation characteristics. Witness the Yokohama > A032 cited earlier. > > > The > >tread compound has a lot to do with how much heat is developed > and how much heat > >it can take. As every racer probably knows, softer compounds > cannot withstand > >much heat. > > You're trying to say, by implication, that a Z-rated tire will > intrinsically have longer tread life than one with a lower speed > rating. And you're just wrong about that. > > >Therefore, if we were embrace a minimum speed rating for > specialty type R tires, > >say a Z rating, tire companies could continue to produce > specialty performance > >tires that we could use. > > As GH already pointed out, the tires you seem to have so much > against ALREADY have a Z rating. Ergo, your proposal will have > zero effect on those tires. Zip. Denada. Zilch. > > >Autocross would get more tire > >participation (something that a dominant tire company might not > want) and club > >racers could sell their takeoffs to autoxers > > They can do that now, although, if you really want to be > competitive, you'll get new tires, not cycled-out ones. Answer my > original question: exactly HOW do the IT tire rules differ from > Solo II tire rules? I see the same tire designs used in both > areas, and I'm not aware of any differences. > > >What we're seeing with the early reports of the G Force aren't > any different than > >what we saw in '89 when BFG produced it's solo only edition of > the R1. In two > >years after, we lost Yoko and their Nationals sponsorship, and > all other tire > >companies in stock class solo. > > We did NOT lose Yokohama in two years. I went to the Solo II > Nationals in 92 and 93, and Yokohama was not only there, they > sponsored those events. They chose to stop providing direct event > support in 1994, FIVE years after, according to you, the world > ended. Hoosier has been there all along, in the form of > independent distributors. And now there's Kumho. You're trying to > create the perception of a problem - lack of competion among tire > manufacturers - when the facts clearly say otherwise. > > What is really motivating all this? Anyone who is unhappy with > BFGs has at least two other competitive options in DOT > competition tires. It's never been any better than this, and > you're trying to get us to believe the sky is falling. > > Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 15:48:53 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:49:09 -0500 Subject: was: new Poll, now: right springs? >survey. If too many people make too many choices the survey would get >too much info and loose some of it's statistical validity. > >I agree with your idea however, I must point out that the survey already >has 0 statistical validity. the results of the poll are interesting, but >they do not tell us anything except the obvious. They tell us the answers >to the questions asked for the people who chose to respond. No inferences >can be made about neon owners in general, or even enthusiasts in general. ========================= NEON LIST: Hmm, point taken. I guess that there would be some bias in the polled people. ;^) for example, who amongst us would claim that they actually only marginally liked their Neon? Hopefully nobody. Of course I realize that for ~99% of Neon owners their cars are merely frugal and inexpensive daily drivers or grocery getters if you prefer so polling the Neon mailing list would present biased data. I thought that a survey about peoples primary "purpose" for their cars might prove to be an interesting poll though. AUTOX LIST: I was actually able to get my R/T up onto three wheels many times this past weekend during a McKamey Phase autocross school. One of my instructors, Brian Priebe, said that my suspension springs felt weak and my steering wheel didn't feel like the 16:1 rack that R/Ts and ACRs are supposed to come with. Any idea how to verify whether or not I have the 16:1 ratio steering rack? How about the coil springs? How can I verify that they are the correct ones? I think (I know, it's a dangerous thing) that I remember reading that the Neon springs are not identical for each front end strut. (Or even the rears for that matter.) Something about DC using slightly different spring heights to "corner weight"(?) the different Neons equipped with varying amounts of heavy optional equipment that would require different spring heights to keep the car level at each corner. Can I (stock class) legally replace the coil springs with factory springs with the same 150/front and 120/rear pound per inch rates? Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 16:02:18 1999 From: Jefrem Iwaniw To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:00:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: was: new Poll, now: right springs? On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Eric Linnhoff wrote: > Of course I realize that for ~99% of Neon owners their cars are merely > frugal and inexpensive daily drivers or grocery getters if you prefer so > polling the Neon mailing list would present biased data. I recall a poll about 7-8 years ago on the Integra list -- one of the "amazing" results was that 90% of the list members were computer professionals aged 25-35. Eight years ago, I would guess that 90% of the people with internet email accounts could be classified as computer professionals.... -jefrem From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 16:11:45 1999 From: Gemery@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:10:12 EDT Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics John Whitling writes: >Politically Ray, durometer readings and such will never be accepted. >Technically it's possible and the ASA racing series has used durometers >to measure/test tires for a long long time. Here's what I see is wrong with a durometer based system: 1) Does ambient temperature play a role in the durometer readings? 2) Are the durometer readings taken on cold tires or warm tires? 3) If a competitor abuses their tires and they should overheat (go gooey), then are they disqualified for having too soft of a compound? >A "Z" rated tire has to be built to withstand the heat of long periods of high >speed (over 149 mph for 1 hour, I believe). Z-ratings are not available for all sizes. 10", 12", & 13" tires, even roadracing DOT tires, are typically H-rating at best. If you look at the "public" tire market, you'll note that most 13" tires aren't even H-rated. Doesn't do much good for attracting the public to autocrossing if their tires are automatically illegal! >Those that say that a Z rating only affects the carcass are not correct. So why do some brands of 13" R-compound tire not have Z-ratings while the same compound on a 15" tire will be Z-rated? > Autocross would get more tire participation (something that a dominant tire > company might not want) and club racers could sell their takeoffs to autoxers Autocross allows DOT tires from virtually all manufacturers... how could we possibly get more participation from them by EXCLUDING more tires? Club racers can already sell their takeoffs to autoxers. Been there, done that. >and tire companies would have just one set of rules and a development arena >that would relate to street tire development. No they wouldn't! The dragstrip and dirt track crowd have wholly different set of rules and tire technical requirements. I'm not about to run an autocross on wrinkle-wall DOT tires and a drag enthusiast isn't going to care about cornering traction. >What we're seeing with the early reports of the G Force aren't any different >than what we saw in '89 when BFG produced it's solo only edition of the R1. First thing you've said that we can agree on! >In two years after, we lost Yoko and their Nationals sponsorship, and all >other tire companies in stock class solo. Bullshit! I'm with Jay. Yoko didn't leave autocross until after the '94 Nationals, in terms of a support truck. And, as I recall, it was still the Yokohama Solo II Nationals in '94 (last Salina year, my first Nationals)... I'm certain that they were still sponsoring the National Tour and Divisional series in '94 as I've got a '94 trophy sitting on my desk with "Yokohama" written across the top. At that time, Toyo was joining the party, Kuhmo wasn't available yet, and Hoosier was available as ever. Today, one can still buy Yokohama DOT race rubber, so they haven't fully left the market yet. Contingencies are offered by BFG, Kuhmo, and Hoosier. We've got more variety of autox tire choices available today than ever before and at least the same number of contingency monies... certainly not a step backwards in my book. George Emery gemery@aol.com http://members.aol.com/gemery From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 16:33:25 1999 From: Jason Bowles To: "Eric Linnhoff" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:31:03 -0400 Subject: Re: was: new Poll, now: right springs? > >AUTOX LIST: I was actually able to get my R/T up onto three wheels many >times this past weekend during a McKamey Phase autocross school. One of >my instructors, Brian Priebe, said that my suspension springs felt weak >and my steering wheel didn't feel like the 16:1 rack that R/Ts and ACRs >are supposed to come with. Any idea how to verify whether or not I have >the 16:1 ratio steering rack? How about the coil springs? How can I >verify that they are the correct ones? Check the part numbers on the rack and the springs, they will be stickers on there, your car is new enough that they are still readable, I could read my springs off my 96. The should say SDE on them. Or even SDK same springs..if they say SDC they are the 140 fronts, rears are the same. You will not notice 10 lbs/in tho. >I think (I know, it's a dangerous thing) that I remember reading that >the Neon springs are not identical for each front end strut. (Or even >the rears for that matter.) Something about DC using slightly different >spring heights to "corner weight"(?) the different Neons equipped with >varying amounts of heavy optional equipment that would require different >spring heights to keep the car level at each corner. They are spring height not lbs/in rate. they are still 150/120 just their free length is longer or shorter so all neons have the same ride level / ground clearance. >Can I (stock class) legally replace the coil springs with factory >springs with the same 150/front and 120/rear pound per inch rates? You can with the SAME part number, no you cant buy the mopar ones in that rate which are the shortest free height available. Jason whose tag lines arent longer than the emails. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 16:51:34 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: HBru275657@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:50:03 -0400 Subject: Camping for SEDIV at AMS I just had an inquiry about camping near Atlanta Motor Speedway for the SE Divisional held there May 1-2. There is a KOA campground at West of the freeway off Exit 72 on I-75 (2 exits North of the exit for the track). Their rates are $27 a night for full hookups, less if you use fewer facilities. Make reservations at 1-800-562-6073. Ben Thatcher Atlanta SCCA Solo II co-chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 17:20:40 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: RacerRay52@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:19:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: favorite topics, or some people never get it At 10:53 AM 4/21/99, RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 4/20/99 10:08:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: > > People who are, I am sure, honest and sincere have said to me that >durometers only measure softness not grip. listen to them Ray, they are wise > I have had anecdotal stories >presented in evidence of that assertion. from tire engineers? or somebody that knows somebody, who heard that a friend of someone said, he saw something once? > While I concede that softness and >grip might not always be in EXACT correlation and they are not ... >I shall continue to believe ... too bad, some people still think Elvis is alive too snip to end Jim Rohn Beater Racing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 17:41:09 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: jbowles@carol.net, eric10mm@qni.com, neon@iastate.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:40:11 PDT Subject: Re: was: new Poll, now: right springs? Eric wrote: >>AUTOX LIST: I was actually able to get my R/T up onto three wheels many times this past weekend during a McKamey Phase autocross school. One of my instructors, Brian Priebe, said that my suspension springs felt weak and my steering wheel didn't feel like the 16:1 rack that R/Ts and ACRs are supposed to come with. Any idea how to verify whether or not I have the 16:1 ratio steering rack? How about the coil springs? How can I verify that they are the correct ones? Remember That tires are also part of the suspention, If you are running Low air pressure in tires it will feel like softer springs, and diffrence in sidewall construction can make a car feel completly diffrent, My car on the Michelins that came on the car (soft sidewalls) felt squirmy, non compliant, and downright ugly, Put a set of R-compound, on the car and whew It is much less ugly (it's still a lux-o-cruiser)but I have driven a similar car to mine with stiffer springs,, I said "hey this feels like my car with the r's" Just my $.02 YMMV Jeff Lloyd From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 17:59:48 1999 From: "Eric W. Clements" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:55:42 -0400 Subject: paging Sam Strano I've misplaced Strano's tech line number (not their 800 number, but their 814 number). Anybody got it? (You'd think I'd have it on my speed dial, but I don't.) mlc (Home before dark for a change.) '91 MR2 NA on BFG's (at least for now) '91 tow van on Kumho's (soon) should I put the truck on Hoosiers? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 20:06:43 1999 From: archss@ix.netcom.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:05:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fwd: Womans Global Gt ------Begin forward message------------------------- From: archss@ix.netcom.com To: ba-autox.team.net Date: 04/21/99 18:50:53 Message-Id: <1999421185053418467@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Womans Global Gt X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. Just to let everyone know how our "autocross girls" did this past weekend in Atlanta, at the Womans Global Gt race. Sat. Shauna Marinus, had top qualifying time and was put on the pole for Sundays race. Renee Eady qualified in 15th place and Belenda Endress had a great run going but as luck would have it went off course and didn't qualify for the race. Sunday, Shauna went off course on turn one and, after I opened my eyes again, I think she was in last place,she then started making her way back to 6th place and was called in for a stop and go on lap 20. With only three laps left she worked her way back into 12th place and managed to set the lap record for the race. Renee Eady worked her way up to 7th place from 15th. Not bad for her first ever road race. There were 32 girls trying to qualify for one of the 16 spots this weekend. Lots of talented girls out there. Jeff & Sandie Glorioso ------End forward message--------------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 20:19:20 1999 From: "Racer---X" To: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:15:21 -0400 Subject: 10th Anniversary Miata If anyone in the southeast is looking for one, Roswell Mazda in Roswell GA has three, one with hardtop, they are selling for list, which is anywhere from 27-29K. Michael Karp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 20:35:41 1999 From: "Racer---X" To: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:31:37 -0400 Subject: Miata Alignment specs Can anyone help me with some alignment specs for a 1990 Miata running on street tires? The car is a daily driver/occasional autocrosser, and I need something as a compromise between the two. Michael Karp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 20:56:00 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:54:29 PDT Subject: gearing ok here is a question for the math freaks on the list Q1 I'm currently running 24.8" Od R-1's on my car If i switch to a tire with a 25.7" Od how much will my gearing change? Will I even notice it? I currently hit my 6500 RPM rev limiter in 2nd gear @ 62 mph how much will this change? I have misplaced my Gear specs but it is for a stock '96 Z3 1.9. I think this will help on the faster courses since I hit my fun limiter Regularly, and this may eliminate a extra shift.. BTW I am getting an extra 1.7" wide of rubber by switching so It might counteract the change because I'll be able to carry more speed through the turns.... Thanks... Theoretical Time!!! Q2 IF you "weakened" the inside sidewall of A tire could this produce a camber compensating effect like the asymetric R-1's??? Thanks, Jeff Lloyd From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 21:26:28 1999 From: "Tim Malzahn" To: autox@autox.team.net, jigou@raq1.raquet.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:24:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 99 Integra - Was 93 DSM's Jarrod, I also have an Integra GS-R and have been autocrossing it for two seasons. Here are a few tips: - Expect LOTS of understeer - your main goal in autocrossing the Integra is figuring out how to eliminate it. - I recommend adjustable shocks for the car - you then need to crank the rears all the way up and adjust the fronts to a middle setting. I have Tokico Illuminas and I set the fronts at 3 and the rears at 5. - If you can, get 225's for the front and 205's for the rear. This also should help the understeer. (Can anyone else help here? Does this really help?) - The springs on the Integra are really soft, so expect fairly good (bad?) body lean. I had to trim off 2 inches from the front mud flaps so they would not grind on the ground while cornering. The front tires also rub the inside of the fenders during heavy cornering. This is with 205's on the front. I would expect the 225's to rub even more. Here is a good picture of me demonstrating the body lean - www.visi.com/mac/images/m698/mvc-009s.jpg - The VTEC engine is a blast - on the street that is. Driving one in an autocross is - well - challenging. The technique to use is to shift to first whenever you can. Keep it up above 6000 as often as possible. This will usually drop your times by a second or more on longer courses. Go out and practice downshifting to first over and over... I hope this helps. You can also check out www.vtec.net for more Integra stuff. Tim Malzahn 97 Integra GS-R Sedan Rogers, MN tmalzahn@tnmnetworks.com www.visi.com/~tnmnets >>> Jarrod Igou 04/21/99 09:12AM >>> +snip+ Incidentally, does anyone know of a source of information anywhere NEAR as complete as the DSM site for Acura Integras? I replaced my DSM with a 99 GSR last week, and I'm looking to start learning....but I haven't found any central repository like this for the Integra. Jarrod Igou '99 Acura Integra GSR Des Moines Valley Region JLAN041@aol.com wrote: > >I found a deal on a 93 Talon TSI and was wondering if this would be a viable >substitution for a 95+ DSM AWD for GS. Besides the HP differance, what are >the pro's and con's? > >John >(looking for new ride) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 21:35:40 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:32:20 -0700 Subject: Re: gearing You don't have to be a math freak, just pick up a copy of HPBooks' "Auto Math Handbook" for hours of fun. Plug it into a computer spreadsheet and do "what ifs" for combos like this (tire diameters themselves are available off a variety of websites, I like Dunlop's and Goodyear's). You'll pick up about 2 mph with this tire diameter increase, depending on the exact gearing in your Beemer. BTW, turbocars don't have to shift -- at all -- in autox. :) Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Lloyd To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 7:56 PM Subject: gearing >ok here is a question for the math freaks on the list > >Q1 >I'm currently running 24.8" Od R-1's on my car If i switch to a tire >with a 25.7" Od how much will my gearing change? Will I even notice >it? I currently hit my 6500 RPM rev limiter in 2nd gear @ 62 mph >how much will this change From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 22:18:01 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Tim Malzahn" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:17:04 -0700 Subject: RE: 99 Integra - Was 93 DSM's > - The VTEC engine is a blast - on the street that is. Driving one > in an autocross is - well - challenging. The technique to use is > to shift to first whenever you can. Keep it up above 6000 as > often as possible. This will usually drop your times by a second > or more on longer courses. Go out and practice downshifting to > first over and over... I thought the whole idea of VTEC was to give a broader, flatter torque curve? a) I'm confused? b) That is the idea, but the Integra VTEC doesn't accomplish it very well? c) It does, but "broad and flat" doesn't mean "lots" so you have to rev it anyway? KeS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 22:33:40 1999 From: "Tim Malzahn" To: autox@autox.team.net, Kevin_Stevens@Bigfoot.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:31:39 -0500 Subject: Re: RE: 99 Integra - Was 93 DSM's > - The VTEC engine is a blast - on the street that is. Driving one > in an autocross is - well - challenging. The technique to use is > to shift to first whenever you can. Keep it up above 6000 as > often as possible. This will usually drop your times by a second > or more on longer courses. Go out and practice downshifting to > first over and over... >>> "Kevin Stevens" 04/21/99 11:17PM >>> >I thought the whole idea of VTEC was to give a broader, flatter torque >curve? > >a) I'm confused? >b) That is the idea, but the Integra VTEC doesn't accomplish it very well? >c) It does, but "broad and flat" doesn't mean "lots" so you have to rev it >anyway? > >KeS The 4cyl VTEC engines are very peaky. The max h.p. on the 1.8 VTEC in the Integra is at 170 @7600 with 128 lbs-ft@6200. You have to really concentrate on keeping the engine above 6000 most of the time because the engine is both on the secondary cam profile and has the secondary intakes open. Below that, it is very similar to the 1.8 non-VTEC engines. -Tim Malzahn 97 Integra GS-R tmalzahn@tnmnetworks.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 23:35:30 1999 From: Paul and Meredith Brown To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:33:24 -0600 Subject: The tire thing^n It's BAAACCCKKKK..... Sounds like the G-Force may suffer from some of the same problems as, well, any competition tire: short life in some situations. That's probably mostly a pressure problem, in this case probably too *high* a pressure may be as bad as too low. Ah yes, progress. I'm now over 100 runs on the front tires on the MR2, and they are about half gone. Yeah, the car is light in the front and has ABS, so they've probably got a pretty easy life. And I've been going pretty slow on them at times, which may help too. Then again, the reason I've been slow is often due to going to fast. Whatever. The rears won't match the fronts, but it sure looks like they'll go well over 100 runs. That'll be just great as long as the stick doesn't go away. So far they seem to be hanging in there just fine. The idea of requiring a Z rating is interesting. Not useful, but interesting. Apparently, the current tire situation is bad, so we need to require something we've already got (except for the Hoosier bias tire, isn't everthing we're using Z rated now???) I don't get it. Aren't we all using the same tires now for solo, IT, and road racing (with the exception of some of the Hoosiers)? Granted, the reason the old super-soft BFG 226 didn't have the Z rating was that the tread compound would melt. But I don't think that's why they went away; I found that even on a stock 2000-pound CRX, the 230 (AKA "road race tire", yes, with a Z rating) was faster in almost any condition. The soft compound was just too soft, and a lack of adhesion was the result. Going softer isn't likely to help that situation.... Even with those, I got 60-70 runs minimum out of a set. I wouldn't say that's "adequate" or that more life wouldn't be better, but that's a far cry from a 1-event tire. I ended up using 230s for almost everything from then on (including a somewhat-successful experiment at Salina, despite first-group dirt and cold temps). The 226 was mostly lamented by SP guys, who were overtired to the point where they needed the soft compound. Some of us experimented with 226s later on, and except for wet conditions, found the 230s to be superior. Sort of a win-win situation when the longer-lasting tire is also faster. Someone has again mentioned using a durometer. I have yet to see one that is capable of giving repeatable readings. I'm talking within a 100% margin! I got one intending to use it to track the heat-cycle lifetime of 230s. After taking a series of readings on a set of tires and seeing no pattern, I found that I could do the same thing on one tire. It's a random number generator. There is probably some sort of expensive lab equipment that's capable (if used right, which probably includes taking 10,000 readings and then feeding that through a statistical analysis) but it's not hand-held and portable. If there's a series using it "successfully" they probably have just defined it as a success and never bother taking the durometer out of its case.... And they've gone to some other method such as a spec tire (excellent solution in some situations, obviously not workable in Solo) or an exclusion list (not necessarily a hopeless solution as long as the competitors and tire companies don't care enough to try to find an advantage). We've hashed this question out over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. We generally keep getting the same suggestions: 1) seems like it's obvious and perfect - tread wear rating. Problems: you can't really compare the testing they do with autocrossing. The number is relatively arbitrary. It doesn't take into consideration things like tread pattern and carcass. My own anecdotal experience had by far the highest treadwear tires I've ever autocrossed on lasting the shortest time. And having seen other "real" street tires with lots of tread after someone has autocrossed on them, it wasn't a fluke. Another problem is that there are plenty of tires out there with "acceptable" treadwear ratings that perform nearly as well as our current "R" tires, but with a real street tread on them aren't going to last very well autocrossing. The real killer is that these tires are absurdly expensive. 2) So add them to the exclusion list. OK, just how far do we go? Some of these tires are OEM on cars like Miatas - someone shows up with a new Miata and we tell him he can't run in Stock since he's got his OEM Pilots on his car??? Yeah, that's a great solution. Who is going to maintain this list? What sort of agenda are they going to have? How often are updates allowed? Ultimately I think this would just lead to us having to run shorter-lived but more expensive tires. Yes, the tire companies might just support this one.... 3) an "allowable" list. Sort of a spec-tire list. Problem here is that that's going to be a big list, but if you start by allowing any OEM tire you've just defeated the purpose. Seems to me what we want is something that is fair, and "affordable". What we've got is certainly fair (though I personally liked the days when there was just one tire at the top; at least you know you weren't losing due to tires! Now with at least three choices, who knows? I can't afford to buy sets of all of them and do the testing....) At least I can go out and buy whatever tire I want. Affordable is a touchy question. I haven't learned the trick of how to sh*t money, so buying tires hurts. I'd love to buy fewer of them. I'd be happy to support rules that promoted that. I've found that less adhesion doesn't hurt the fun factor; heck, in some ways it helps! But I'm also not willing to compromise my competitiveness if I can help it. Given that I haven't found that "R" tires wear faster than high-end street tires and that they certainly seem to cost lots less, I'm not sure that we can do much better than what we've got now. Especially with 3 companies out there with competitive rubber, there are choices. And I'm sure the tire companies are aware of tire life issues. As much as they'd like to be able to sell us 1-event tires, they realize that's not going to work. And I don't think a tread compound that soft would be likely to make most of us go fast anyway (based on my 226 experiences). It seems to me that the market will force the tire companies to work towards longer-lasting, faster tires. Look at Kumho's reputation for durability and low cost, yet they seem to be quite competitive. That's a rep that the others would love to have. I'm not all that sure that they aren't all somewhat comparable, but Kumho's recent success has got to have gotten the attention of the others. My first set of G-Forces has surprised me a bit with their durability. If they can improve on this.... So I'll ask a question: what are you trying to accomplish with a rules change? Or to rephrase it, just what is the problem with the current situation? Don't tell me "street tires are cheaper to run" cause I really don't think they are, at least not in a competitive situation. Local street tire classes are great. It would be interesting to look at tire life there. But I don't think that scales up to the national level. Forcing us to buy Pilots (or whatever the best legal "real" street tire ended up being) would be a significant step in the wrong direction. Be careful what you wish for.... Paul and Meredith Brown MR2: "Not the easiest car in the world to work on" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 23:46:27 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: Paul and Meredith Brown Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:40:21 -0700 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n Paul and Meredith Brown wrote: > So I'll ask a question: what are you trying to accomplish with a rules > change? Or to rephrase it, just what is the problem with the current > situation? Don't tell me "street tires are cheaper to run" cause I really > don't think they are, at least not in a competitive situation. Local > street tire classes are great. It would be interesting to look at tire > life there. But I don't think that scales up to the national level. > Forcing us to buy Pilots (or whatever the best legal "real" street tire > ended up being) would be a significant step in the wrong direction. Be > careful what you wish for.... Just an anecdote -- last year in the San Francisco Region, yours truly pushed for a change such that street tires (treadwear over 140 or 160 or something) would be required for our local rookie classes. Then I found out that some of our gung-ho rookies (hi Kit!) went through 3 sets of expensive street tires in a single season! Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 21 23:54:56 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Josh Sirota" , Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:53:58 -0700 Subject: RE: The tire thing^n > Just an anecdote -- last year in the San Francisco Region, yours truly > pushed for a change such that street tires (treadwear over 140 or 160 or > something) would be required for our local rookie classes. > > Then I found out that some of our gung-ho rookies (hi Kit!) went through > 3 sets of expensive street tires in a single season! > > Josh But, again anecdotally, I ran (and won, so I wasn't THAT slow) the SFR Street Tire class last year on the equivalent of a single set of tires (started and ended with a half set); mostly in an ESP Camaro. That is two-three times the wear I'd have gotten on race tires. My point being that I think a certain amount of the "street tires get lousy wear" is crossover from "gung-ho rookie drivers tend to be harder on tires in general". KeS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 03:29:57 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:32:06 -0700 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars > A closed car only requires a SCCA approved bar, not a cage Same with open cars. Open cars require arm restraints. Closed can use arm restraints or a window net. Open cars require full face helmet or goggles, closed cars can have open face helmets. Those are the only differences. '98 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra Convertible ESP - Solo II/ITS - Solo I Northwest Region SCCA http://PonyCar.Net/Blutifl.htm From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 06:07:50 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Eric Moon" , "Todd Farris" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:53:02 -0500 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover >>I spent a lot of >>money on my paint job a week before nationals. The scca in its ultimate >>wisdom said I had to place the decals on my brand new paint right in the >>center of one of the flames. Upon removal, I managed to pull the clear >>coat off Sounds like you should have spent a few bucks on magnetic material. Or static if that part of your car is metal-impaired. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 06:15:27 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Kevin Stevens" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:17:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 99 Integra - Was 93 DSM's >> - The VTEC engine is a blast - on the street that is. Driving one >> in an autocross is - well - challenging. The technique to use is >> to shift to first whenever you can. Keep it up above 6000 as >> often as possible. This will usually drop your times by a second >> or more on longer courses. Go out and practice downshifting to >> first over and over... > >I thought the whole idea of VTEC was to give a broader, flatter torque >curve? > >a) I'm confused? >b) That is the idea, but the Integra VTEC doesn't accomplish it very well? >c) It does, but "broad and flat" doesn't mean "lots" so you have to rev it >anyway? When Honda says "broader and flatter power band" they mean power is available from all the way from 6000-8500 rpm instead of just 7000-8500. Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 06:25:58 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:27:21 -0500 Subject: Re: gearing >I'm currently running 24.8" Od R-1's on my car If i switch to a tire >with a 25.7" Od how much will my gearing change? It is a straight linear relationship. >IF you "weakened" the inside sidewall of A tire could this produce a >camber compensating effect like the asymmetric R-1's??? Quite the reverse. The inside sidewall on an R1 is the stiffer one. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 06:26:31 1999 From: Karl Witt To: "Phil Ethier" , "Eric Moon" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:19:54 -0400 Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover On or about 06:53 PM 4/21/1999 -0500, Phil Ethier did say: >>>I spent a lot of >>>money on my paint job a week before nationals. The scca in its ultimate >>>wisdom said I had to place the decals on my brand new paint right in the >>>center of one of the flames. Upon removal, I managed to pull the clear >>>coat off > >Sounds like you should have spent a few bucks on magnetic material. Or >static if that part of your car is metal-impaired. Or gotten the paint job 60-90 days before the event so the clearcoat would have had proper time to cure. Karl From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 06:49:54 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net, jemitchell@compuserve.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:48:18 EDT Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics In a message dated 4/21/1999 2:30:28 PM Central Daylight Time, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: << In the meantime, my proposal was not based at changing the the way that R tires have been for the last few years. It's designed to keep tire issues from getting out of hand, as I claim was the case back when. And that's what's motivating all this. If we can find a simple way to put up a limit for tire companies we won't see any more seasons where we lose participants because they cannot afford to race as often as they would like to. >> The market will keep this issue from getting out of hand. If you don't like a particular brand, don't buy it. Tell your friends not to buy it. That message will get heard. As has been pointed out numerous times over the years, there is no way to write a meaningful rule to handle what you're asking. You can't even do it (unless your lack of response to my request is 'just not ready yet'). Much of this is dealing with perceptions. The perception that we have to have a particular brand of tires in order to win. People, this just isn't always so. There are countless examples of someone beating the class at nationals on a tire brand shunned by the vast majority of the class. I know one guy pretty well who's done it twice :-) If someone actually has something in black and white, that 'may' be better than what we have now, then let's see it. Some of us who've been down that road may actually be wrong. But unless someone writes up the actual wording of a proposed rule for us to consider, then there is no 'proof' of a better way. Just opinion. And my opinion is it's time to move on to something else. Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 06:58:18 1999 From: "Brian P. Van Lieu" To: Team Net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:56:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Integra autoXing > > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:24:40 -0500 > From: "Tim Malzahn" > Subject: Re: 99 Integra - Was 93 DSM's > > Jarrod, > > I also have an Integra GS-R and have been autocrossing it for two seasons. > Here are a few tips: > > - Expect LOTS of understeer - your main goal in autocrossing the > Integra is figuring out how to eliminate it. > > - I recommend adjustable shocks for the car - you then need to crank > the rears all the way up and adjust the fronts to a middle setting. I > have Tokico Illuminas and I set the fronts at 3 and the rears at > Shocks will help dial it out a bit. I personally run Koni singles. Can't touch that rear bar in GS (the Type R has a 22mm rear sway vs. the GS-R 14mm...hmmm, wonder why :) > > - If you can, get 225's for the front and 205's for the rear. This > also should help the understeer. (Can anyone else help here? Does this > really help?) > Integra (now R :) racer in my region ran this setup last year. He was not sure how much better the 225s were in the front (he ran V700s). He did need to use a slight spacer to help the fronts not rub on the inside. Full lock still had a tad of rub, but that is not that bad. > > - The springs on the Integra are really soft, so expect fairly good > (bad?) body lean. I had to trim off 2 inches from the front mud flaps > Well...you could just run ST and eliminate the GS-R suspension short comings :) > to first whenever you can. Keep it up above 6000 as often as > possible. This will usually drop your times by a second or more on > longer courses. Go out and practice downshifting to first over and > over... > Yes, finding where on courses to downshift to first is hard enough in most cars. Its quite critical in any car with an NA engine such as the GS-R. > > I hope this helps. You can also check out www.vtec.net for more Integra stuff. > Server is down...has been for a while. > > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:17:04 -0700 > From: "Kevin Stevens" > Subject: RE: 99 Integra - Was 93 DSM's > > first over and over... > > I thought the whole idea of VTEC was to give a broader, flatter torque > curve? > It is and it does. > > a) I'm confused? > That's ok :) > b) That is the idea, but the Integra VTEC doesn't accomplish it very well? > It does it very well. Understand, however, we are talking a 1.8L NA I-4. This is no stump-pulling engine to begin with. VTEC in this engine (like the Civic Si, NSX, and Prelude, a DOHC flavors) have a very flat torque curve from 3000 RPM to 7500 RPM. However, power is a derivative of Torque, so peak HP is up around 7600 for these engines, and they are gear so that max acceleration is with redline shifting. So, hammering the throttle in 2nd gear humming at 4000 RPM up a little hill will work...but its far better to drop it to 1st and redline it, with a quick upshift to 2nd (dropping you to about 5500 RPM). > c) It does, but "broad and flat" doesn't mean "lots" so you have to rev it > anyway? > Lots is just a relative term. Relative to a non-VTEC 1.8l Honda 4, it makes a bit less torque at lower RPMs (say 102 ft-lbs vs 105) but carries its effective power curve much longer with a switch over to a more aggressive cam. To complicate matters just a tad, the GS-R engine (B18C is its mfg code) uses a dual intake runner. The secondaries open at exactly 5750 RPM. VTEC cam crosses over around 4400 RPM (it is dependend upon imput variables at the ECU). 6000-8000 is where it likes to be. It is not, nor shall it ever be, the mating of a Vipers low end with the high end of a Ferrari V8. - b -- Brian P. Van Lieu LU Ultimate Frisbee --- GOHO! AXP-Phi Mu Chapter 95 Frost GSR Coupe - Philly Region SCCA ST1 #88 92 Sunburst Miata #1035 - This much fun should be illegal Visit GeeSeR at http://integra.vtec.net/geeser From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 07:20:01 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Jeff Winchell'" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:15:16 -0500 Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >> A closed car only requires a SCCA approved bar, not a cage<< >Same with open cars.< Don't forget, open cars require the roll bar to be 2"-3" above the drivers helmet. For us tall guys that's not an option with most convertibles if we intend to put the top up at some point. Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (with factory hardtop for high speed events) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 08:43:11 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:47:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Limiting Tire Options? MBD96@aol.com wrote: > > The market will keep this issue from getting out of hand. If you don't like > a particular brand, don't buy it. Tell your friends not to buy it. That > message will get heard. As has been pointed out numerous times over the > years, there is no way to write a meaningful rule to handle what you're > asking. You can't even do it (unless your lack of response to my request is > 'just not ready yet'). > Agree. The 100 to 150 of the 'real hot shoes' out there - or even the one guy who thinks we might take away his financial ability to outspend the masses ;-) - cannot buy enough tires to make this viable for the tire companies. Its what the rest of us buy that will matter. It will take a little time, as the earlier 'killer' version of the BFG autocross tire was replaced (I forget the number of the tire series, but I had on some runs one tire tread row melt over to another.....) so will the G-Farce be replaced. Funny thing is that the G-Farce is not even dominant - just pricey and has poor wear characteristics. I know a number of folks who have already left BFG because the tires just were not fast enough! They evidently do not work for all vehicles. This might not take long at all. Scott Meyers Kumhos due tomorrow......will run them Sunday From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:00:40 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Best Rain autox/street tire? Howdy, I'm in need of street tires for the neon and would like to get some summer only tires that will be suitable for heavy rain use in autox. I care about stuff in the following order: 1st) Good rain tire for autox 2nd) At least 10k miles of street wear (with race alignment) 3rd) Street performance Again, this is on a neon with stock wheels, so anything that isn't sold in 14" sizes doesn't help. Stock tire size is 185/65-14, can go up to 205 in width. Want to keep speedo at least close. I've only seen one tire that seems to meet the bill: Yokohama AVS Intermediate. 205/60-14 ($72) Are there any others? I saw an RE-71 195/55-14, but that seems narrower and would definately negatively affect the speedo... The tire has to be workable on the street, so I don't know if the 'dirt stocker' I've heard about would do that or not... Thanks! Mark (tell me again how non-race tires are good? You'd have to reclass based on tire availability for smaller rims...) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:11:40 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:08:22 -0400 Subject: Why DOT? Why not slicks? With all the tire talk lately, this question has surfaced in my mind: Why do we require DOT race tires? Why not allow race slicks too? Good enough for CP, good enough for ESP - and besides, a g-force has a lower void ratio than a current F1 tire. Allowing slicks would give people even MORE choice in tires. (Although I'm with the good Mr Mitchell on this one - there is more tire choice today than there ever has been, and no need for minimum speed ratings, treadwear numbers, durometer, or whatever) DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:15:24 1999 From: Jefrem Iwaniw To: "Mark J. Andy" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:13:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Best Rain autox/street tire? On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Mark J. Andy wrote: > Yokohama AVS Intermediate. 205/60-14 ($72) My experience with these has been that, while an OK dry street tire, they're pretty-much worthless in the rain (this is in a 205/60x13 size). The A032R's are much better in the rain (and dry) than these, but they won't likely last 10k miles with a race suspension. > > The tire has to be workable on the street, so I don't know if the 'dirt > stocker' I've heard about would do that or not... Without standing water (or dirt/mud) to drive through, these will wear-out in about 10 miles. Although, in standing/pouring water, they'll be faster than just about anything else.... -jefrem From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:18:30 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Mark J. Andy'" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:17:59 -0500 Subject: RE: Best Rain autox/street tire? I used the Yok. A032Rs last year, worked great in the rain..and snow. It snowed at our Mckamey last march *heh* Just ate thru deep puddles. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark J. Andy [SMTP:marka@telerama.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 10:00 AM > To: autox mailing list > Subject: Best Rain autox/street tire? > > Howdy, > > I'm in need of street tires for the neon and would like to get some summer > only tires that will be suitable for heavy rain use in autox. I care > about stuff in the following order: > > 1st) Good rain tire for autox > 2nd) At least 10k miles of street wear (with race alignment) > 3rd) Street performance > > Again, this is on a neon with stock wheels, so anything that isn't sold in > 14" sizes doesn't help. Stock tire size is 185/65-14, can go up to 205 in > width. Want to keep speedo at least close. > > I've only seen one tire that seems to meet the bill: > > Yokohama AVS Intermediate. 205/60-14 ($72) > > Are there any others? I saw an RE-71 195/55-14, but that seems narrower > and would definately negatively affect the speedo... > > The tire has to be workable on the street, so I don't know if the 'dirt > stocker' I've heard about would do that or not... > > Thanks! > > Mark > (tell me again how non-race tires are good? You'd have to reclass based > on tire availability for smaller rims...) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:20:00 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Mark J. Andy" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:20:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Best Rain autox/street tire? >I'm in need of street tires for the neon and would like to get some summer >only tires that will be suitable for heavy rain use in autox. I care >about stuff in the following order: ==================== Based off of your stated preferences (and my insanity) I make the following suggestions: >1st) Good rain tire for autox ==================== Full tread depth set of Toyo RA1s (8/32" of tread) or Kumho V700 (6/32" of tread) tires in 205/55-14 size. I think both brands also are available in a slightly cheaper 195/60-14 size though the difference will likely be less than $10 each, and some width. >2nd) At least 10k miles of street wear (with race alignment) ===================== Should last all year as long as you minimize the number of burnouts and lockups and don't push around every corner like I do. ;^) >3rd) Street performance ===================== NO 14" street tire made will come close to giving you the same amount of grip both laterally and going straight as these "R" tires. Period. >Again, this is on a neon with stock wheels, so anything that isn't sold in >14" sizes doesn't help. Stock tire size is 185/65-14, can go up to 205 in >width. Want to keep speedo at least close. > >I've only seen one tire that seems to meet the bill: > >Yokohama AVS Intermediate. 205/60-14 ($72) ======================== The two brands I mentioned above will cost slightly more than $100 each but once you try them you'll likely never go back to "regular" street tires for spring, summer and fall usage. Until you wear them out and have to put the stockers back on until your next set arrives via UPS. >Are there any others? I saw an RE-71 195/55-14, but that seems narrower >and would definately negatively affect the speedo... > >The tire has to be workable on the street, so I don't know if the 'dirt >stocker' I've heard about would do that or not... > >Thanks! > >Mark >(tell me again how non-race tires are good? You'd have to reclass based >on tire availability for smaller rims...) ======================== The only downsides to the two brands I mentioned above are that they will probably barely last three seasons if you get abusive to them and they are so sticky that they will pelt your lower rocker panels with every piece of sand and pebble that they can pick up. So I'd suggest getting some of that Stone-guard (adhesive clear plastic panels) stuff to put on your lower body panels to prevent all kinds of rock chips. Of course if those tires cost a little too much and you can't stand the thought of a bunch of rock chips or having to put the plastic panels on then you'd probably be happy (thought not quite as much) with the AVS tires. Just my opinion. And remember that I'm a madman!!!! ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:23:00 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:23:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? >With all the tire talk lately, this question has surfaced in my mind: > >Why do we require DOT race tires? Why not allow race slicks too? > >Good enough for CP, good enough for ESP - and besides, a g-force has a lower >void ratio than a current F1 tire. =========================== Wait, I thought all SP classes still had to run on DOT approved tires like the Stock classes. Did something change? Are the SP cars allowed to run on non-DOT tires? >Allowing slicks would give people even MORE choice in tires. ======================= Although driving to and from the event on your race tires in any kind of moist conditions would suddenly be more work than the autox course. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:24:01 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:21:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? >Why do we require DOT race tires? Why not allow race slicks too? > >Good enough for CP, good enough for ESP - and besides, a g-force has a lower >void ratio than a current F1 tire. Excuse me? Good enough for ESP? Has there been a rule change that I didn't see? 14.3 Tires: Tires must meet the eligibility requirements for stock category. David 'I'd love to run slicks' Hawkins 85 Mr2 CSP TLS 15 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:35:40 1999 From: Phil Vanner To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:27:32 -0500 Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover Well in my case the CAR is English, as is proper for a sporting vehicle, but the numbers are Arabic and the letters are Latin. :-) Phil Vanner DSP Midget LXXXVI -----Original Message----- From: Phil Esra [SMTP:pesra@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 4:03 PM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: re: May 1999 Cover From: "Mohler, Jeff" >Yeah, we were specific on those, 8" tall, fat ENGLISH readable >letters and numbes. English? Hmm. My number (16) and class designation (ST) are in Spanish on the driver's side, and in French on the passenger's side. I got through one divisional without being protested; we'll see what happens at the Atwater Pro... multicultural protest bait Phil Esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:46:06 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:42:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? DG asks: >Why do we require DOT race tires? Why not allow race slicks too? I believe that, historically, it was more related to safety than to any other factor. A stock car with unmodified suspension and the lateral grip that slicks can provide becomes a real threat to go Tango Uniform. As DOT tires have gotten better, the difference is less extreme, but it's still there. I know one nationally-competitive SP driver who went to Prepared, which required him to fit narrower rims and add weight to his car, but he still beat his old class by more than 2 seconds at his first Nationals in Prepared. He is convinced that the difference was due to being able to run slicks. As for slicks in SP, I'd be all for it. I suspect the idea won't fly politically, but I'd love to be proven wrong. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 09:55:18 1999 From: whitney To: "Mark J. Andy" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:53:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Best Rain autox/street tire? The best you could do might be a full tread kumho - in a narrower size, say 205/55/14, as any R tire compound will top a street tire in the rain, until you get to deep standing water, and even then, once you splash through.... Not too many other race tires with real tread left :( You could also use some G-force KD street tires, or yok A032, but they may be a little noisy for street use. Stan At 10:59 AM 4/22/99 -0400, Mark J. Andy wrote: >Howdy, > >I'm in need of street tires for the neon and would like to get some summer >only tires that will be suitable for heavy rain use in autox. I care >about stuff in the following order: > >1st) Good rain tire for autox >2nd) At least 10k miles of street wear (with race alignment) >3rd) Street performance > >Again, this is on a neon with stock wheels, so anything that isn't sold in >14" sizes doesn't help. Stock tire size is 185/65-14, can go up to 205 in >width. Want to keep speedo at least close. > >I've only seen one tire that seems to meet the bill: > >Yokohama AVS Intermediate. 205/60-14 ($72) > >Are there any others? I saw an RE-71 195/55-14, but that seems narrower >and would definately negatively affect the speedo... > >The tire has to be workable on the street, so I don't know if the 'dirt >stocker' I've heard about would do that or not... > >Thanks! > >Mark >(tell me again how non-race tires are good? You'd have to reclass based >on tire availability for smaller rims...) > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:02:11 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: "Eric Linnhoff" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:00:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? >> Why do we require DOT race tires? Why not allow race slicks too? >> >> Good enough for CP, good enough for ESP > Wait, I thought all SP classes still had to run on DOT approved > tires like the Stock classes. Did something change? *sigh* "If it (running slicks) is good enough for the guys in CP, then surely it's good enough on a qualitative basis to allow slicks in ESP, where the cars are very similar" Is that more clear? > Although driving to and from the event on your race tires in any > kind of moist conditions would suddenly be more work than the > autox course. ;^) Driving to/from events on race rubber is not something that should be encouraged, especially in the wet. [The .sig just slightly shorter than War and Peace snipped] Eric, have you noticed that your .sig is longer than most of your posts? Does this strike you as odd at all? DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:03:29 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Phil Vanner'" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:03:59 -0500 Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover ON top of that..Ive been tempted as a Timing & Scoring worker to complain harshly about a car in GS in "our area somewhere" that has the letters in some kinda thin FU-Man-Chu style writing. About halfway thru each season..we get sick of the non-compliant lettering. > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Vanner [SMTP:pvanner@pclink.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 10:28 AM > To: 'autox@autox.team.net' > Subject: RE: May 1999 Cover > > Well in my case the CAR is English, as is proper for a sporting vehicle, > but the numbers are Arabic and the letters are Latin. :-) > > Phil Vanner > DSP Midget LXXXVI > > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Esra [SMTP:pesra@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 4:03 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: re: May 1999 Cover > > From: "Mohler, Jeff" > >Yeah, we were specific on those, 8" tall, fat ENGLISH readable > >letters and numbes. > > English? Hmm. My number (16) and class designation (ST) are in Spanish > on the driver's side, and in French on the passenger's side. I got > through one divisional without being protested; we'll see what happens > at the Atwater Pro... > > multicultural protest bait > Phil Esra > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:14:12 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: jslz3@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:57:51 EDT Subject: Re: gearing In a message dated 4/21/99 9:57:55 PM Central Daylight Time, jslz3@hotmail.com writes: > Q1 > I'm currently running 24.8" Od R-1's on my car If i switch to a tire > with a 25.7" Od how much will my gearing change? Divide the old diameter by the new diameter and multiply by the existing rear gear ratio to get the new equivalent ratio. (24.8/25.7) x 3.45 = 3.32 effective rear gear ratio Divide the new tire OD by the old tir OD and multiply by the previous top speed to get the new top speed. (25.7/24.8) x 62 mph = 64.2 mph new top speed in 2nd gear. If this is for your Z3 I think you'll have problems with 25.7" OD tires. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:15:45 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:16:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? >>> Good enough for CP, good enough for ESP > >> Wait, I thought all SP classes still had to run on DOT approved >> tires like the Stock classes. Did something change? > >*sigh* > >"If it (running slicks) is good enough for the guys in CP, then surely it's good >enough on a qualitative basis to allow slicks in ESP, where the cars are very >similar" > >Is that more clear? ========================== Umm, yeah, that's better. Hulk brain hurt when Hulk think. >> Although driving to and from the event on your race tires in any > kind of >moist conditions would suddenly be more work than the >> autox course. ;^) > >Driving to/from events on race rubber is not something that should be >encouraged, especially in the wet. ============================ Some people who have short drives to the event prefer to change their tires at home at their leisure so they do drive to and from the events on their (usually DOT) race rubber. > >[The .sig just slightly shorter than War and Peace snipped] > >Eric, have you noticed that your .sig is longer than most of your posts? Does >this strike you as odd at all? > >DG ====================== Umm, nope. It's me that's odd, not the sig line. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC Got Ritalin? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:24:03 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:19:13 -0500 Subject: RE: Why DOT? Why not slicks? Why not slicks in SP? Have we really gone that far into bastardizing the original intent of "Street Prepared"? SCCA keeps wondering why it's so hard to attract new competitors, and here's a good example of why. A class is started (Street Prepared) so that cars with common enthusiast, street modifications can compete. Of course, right off the bat some of the more common mods that street cars use are banned, but still it's an interesting class. Then the trailered cars start appearing, and now you're talking about slicks. As it is, it appears that my mildly modified and street driven Cobra have been banished to CM, which proves to me that the rule makers aren't serious about a Street Prepared category anyway. So why not just change the name SP (Street Prepared) to PW (Prepared Wannabes)? Tom Gentry Life is too short to understand SCCA rules! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:35:40 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:34:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? dg50@daimlerchrysler.com wrote: > > With all the tire talk lately, this question has surfaced in my mind: > > Why do we require DOT race tires? Why not allow race slicks too? Well, remember that *allowing* slicks is the same as *requiring* slicks for those that want to be competitive. And that has some implications... > > Good enough for CP, good enough for ESP Well, most Prepared cars are trailered to events; many SP cars will be driven to the events; some driven their on their race tires. And most in SP will be on the most competitive rubber -- not real safe -- not real legal. Note that many SP cars are daily drivers. Many do not take advantage of non-street-legal mods like removing cats -- and yet are not at any significant disadvantage. Not running slicks would be a huge disadvantage, and thus almost every SP car would be pushed into running in non-street- legal form. Further, unlike Prepared cars, many SP cars are very much still covered by their factory warranty. However, at least some factory warranties are voided by running the car with slicks. A prominent example is Porsche. Finally, there is a reason why manufacturers void their warranties with slicks! Many of the cars are not designed to handle the G-forces possible with slicks. Thus, allowing slicks in SP will result in some blown motors, broken suspensions. Allowing slicks will also result in a big migration of cars from the SP classes to the ST classes (prediction). Of course, some large displacement cars would no longer be able to run except in stock (e.g., the newer 911's). And the newer 911 turbo can't run there, so it wouldn't be able to play competitively at all. > > Allowing slicks would give people even MORE choice in tires. Debatable. From a competitive perspective, it eliminates all the existing choices. Your choices are slicks. And the delta between those running street tires and those running competitive rubber will be even huger. I think allowing slicks in SP would be a very bad idea. Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:36:11 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "Mohler, Jeff" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:32:24 -0500 Subject: RE: Car numbers was - May 1999 Cover > ON top of that..Ive been tempted as a Timing & Scoring worker to complain > harshly about a car in GS in "our area somewhere" that has the letters in > some kinda thin FU-Man-Chu style writing. Gee, I saw a red car that fit that description at our last event with the total letter being about 8" tall and 1" wide. A few corvettes that had the number wrapped around the rear window quite illegibly along with a some other unreadable variations on other cars. Our rules (Minnesota, Met Council) do not require a one inch stroke width but do allow the tech inspectors to fail a car that has unreadable (in the tech inspector's opinion) numbers. I have talked with our newsletter editor and think that there will be an article about readable numbers and some easy way to make them in it. I will be a pain in the ass and insist on seeing the number on cars at tech and will require some to be fixed or fail. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:39:54 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: TeamZ3@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:40:13 PDT Subject: Re: gearing Mark, your right I forgot of the spring perch interference on the front tires They would never fit. (so much for cheap tires) Thanks Jeff TeamZ3 wrote: >If this is for your Z3 I think you'll have problems with 25.7" OD tires. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 10:58:59 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: "Tom Gentry" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:55:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? Tom Gentry moans: >SCCA keeps wondering why it's so hard to attract new competitors, Given that new competitors continue showing up, I can't say as how I wonder much about that. Autox isn't for everyone, but not because any special equipment is required. > and here's a good example of why. A class is started (Street Prepared) In 1983. Let's at least get the historical context straight. > so that cars with common >enthusiast, street modifications can compete. They could compete before, and they can compete now. Before, a car with any modifications from stock went either to Prepared or Modified. Now there's also Street Prepared. That's an improvement. > Of course, right off the bat some of the more c! >ommon mods that street cars use are banned, Were you around in 1983? Are you even aware of what constituted "common" mods in 1983? > but still it's an interesting class. > Then the trailered cars start appearing, You can trailer a Stock car. What's your point? >As it is, it appears that my mildly modified and street driven Cobra have been banished to CM, Well, reverse some of the mods if you don't want to run in Modified. > which proves to me that the rule makers aren't serious about a Street Prepared category anyway. That's not true. SP is very well subscribed, and long-term rules stability is essential if that is to continue. Tell the guys on the SPAC they're "not serious," and see what kind of response you get. > So why not just change the name SP (Street Prepared) to PW (Prepar! >ed Wannabes)? Alternatively, why not just adapt your car to the rules that exist NOW if you want to autox seriously? Otherwise, what's wrong with just having a good time going fast in your daily driver? The rules allow that, too. Jay Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 11:16:41 1999 From: Rick Perry To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:19:10 -0700 Subject: SOPAC DIVISIONAL - MAY 29 & 30 Hi Drivers, The SCCA San Diego Region will be putting on a SoPac Divisional on May 29 & 30, 1999 @ Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego, CA. A local open championship autox will be combined with Sundays Divisional event. A Divisional T-shirt will be presented to the first 150 entrants. Plan now on attending and running 60+ seconds courses on the best site in the West. Questions & Information: Jim Hamm (619) 579-1541, jhhamm@home.com Rick Perry (619) 440-2689 San Diego AutoX Information Line (800) 360-4454 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 11:49:15 1999 From: ConeChasr@aol.com To: pvanner@pclink.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:31:20 EDT Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover In a message dated 4/22/99 12:00:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pvanner@pclink.com writes: << Well in my case the CAR is English, as is proper for a sporting vehicle, but the numbers are Arabic and the letters are Latin. :-) >> Ooooooh... >smack< >smack<...ouch...the truth hurts... =^) Daniel "I wasn't going to mention the English number thing..." Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 11:59:39 1999 From: Phil Vanner To: "'Tom Gentry'" , "'Jeff Winchell'" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:38:47 -0500 Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars Not that "high speed" is an option for me, but is a roadster with a factory hardtop installed considered a closed car? So you'd still need a roll bar but just not as tall? Phil Vanner Midget LXXXVI -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gentry [SMTP:tgentry@execpc.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 8:15 AM To: 'Jeff Winchell'; autox@autox.team.net Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >> A closed car only requires a SCCA approved bar, not a cage<< >Same with open cars.< Don't forget, open cars require the roll bar to be 2"-3" above the drivers helmet. For us tall guys that's not an option with most convertibles if we intend to put the top up at some point. Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (with factory hardtop for high speed events) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 12:22:24 1999 From: "Burns, James B." To: autox Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:21:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Tire issues John Whitling wrote: >As far as having a single set of tire rules across the club racers and >autocrossers .... Historically there have been tires allowed to compete >in club racing that are not allowed in solo. Maybe those issues have >dissapated for now. It wasn't long ago that you couldn't run Goodyear >GSC's race tire in autox, for instance. You probably can now. > It's actually a bit of the opposite now. In Showroom Stock road racing you are required to run radial tires. In Stock class autox you can run bias ply tires if you want. Brad Burns From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 12:30:06 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:24:39 -0500 Subject: Slicks and other Hallucinations >As it is, it appears that my mildly modified and street driven Cobra have been banished to CM, C-Mod? You said you bought your weed where? Maybe A-Mod or E-Mod? But I'd bet my last million it Ain't CM. Mike(A 2 Litre is a big block in CM)B TLS#1 Couldn't stay away when I heard this one From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 12:35:20 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Phil Vanner" , "'Tom Gentry'" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:42:18 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars -----Original Message----- From: Phil Vanner >Not that "high speed" is an option for me, but is a roadster with a >factory hardtop installed considered a closed car? So you'd still need a >roll bar but just not as tall? This isn't an official definition (I've never seen one), but IMO, a closed car has a roof which is an intergal part of the structure. Removeable factory tops wouldn't qualify. Jamie '92 Prelude Si (full metal top) Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 12:45:01 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: Phil Vanner , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:40:00 -0500 Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >>This isn't an official definition (I've never seen one), but IMO, a closed car has a roof which is an intergal part of the structure. Removeable factory tops wouldn't qualify.>> Midwest Council and VSCDA accept hardtop equipped sports cars as closed cars, I don't have any first hand experience with other groups. According to your definition T-tops and targas would be open cars, and I know that is not the case with most organizations. T or targa top off = open car. T or targa top on = closed car. Why should a factory hardtop be any different? I have always wondered about the cars with glass tops. They race under closed car rules, but in a roll over will revert to open car status when the glass shatters. Hmmmmmm. Yes, you could argue that my hardtop could be torn off in a rollover, I would argue that it is securely attached with grade 8 fasteners. No, I am not willing to give it a go! LOL Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 12:48:08 1999 From: John Whitling To: Paul and Meredith Brown Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:49:34 -0400 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n Paul said, " The idea of requiring a Z rating is interesting. Not useful, but interesting. Apparently, the current tire situation is bad, so we need to require something we've already got (except for the Hoosier bias tire, isn't everthing we're using Z rated now???) I don't get it. Aren't we all using the same tires now for solo, IT, and road racing (with the exception of some of the Hoosiers)? " My point of bringing this up is not to have every tire company have to reengineer it's existing tire line. It's to keep any tire company from coming out with an autox only tire like the 226 was. You think the tire situation is bad now? In the early ninties it was a real mess. Things are relatively stable now. The SCCA members have looked into ways of policing tires in the past. It never happened, mainly because of complex proposals and ... ahem .. politics. If a simple to implement speed rating limitation can help, why shouldn't we try it??? John Whitling Paul and Meredith Brown wrote: > It's BAAACCCKKKK..... > > Sounds like the G-Force may suffer from some of the same problems as, well, > any competition tire: short life in some situations. That's probably > mostly a pressure problem, in this case probably too *high* a pressure may > be as bad as too low. Ah yes, progress. I'm now over 100 runs on the > front tires on the MR2, and they are about half gone. Yeah, the car is > light in the front and has ABS, so they've probably got a pretty easy life. > And I've been going pretty slow on them at times, which may help too. > Then again, the reason I've been slow is often due to going to fast. > Whatever. The rears won't match the fronts, but it sure looks like they'll > go well over 100 runs. That'll be just great as long as the stick doesn't > go away. So far they seem to be hanging in there just fine. > > The idea of requiring a Z rating is interesting. Not useful, but > interesting. Apparently, the current tire situation is bad, so we need to > require something we've already got (except for the Hoosier bias tire, > isn't everthing we're using Z rated now???) I don't get it. Aren't we all > using the same tires now for solo, IT, and road racing (with the exception > of some of the Hoosiers)? > > Granted, the reason the old super-soft BFG 226 didn't have the Z rating was > that the tread compound would melt. But I don't think that's why they went > away; I found that even on a stock 2000-pound CRX, the 230 (AKA "road race > tire", yes, with a Z rating) was faster in almost any condition. The soft > compound was just too soft, and a lack of adhesion was the result. Going > softer isn't likely to help that situation.... Even with those, I got > 60-70 runs minimum out of a set. I wouldn't say that's "adequate" or that > more life wouldn't be better, but that's a far cry from a 1-event tire. I > ended up using 230s for almost everything from then on (including a > somewhat-successful experiment at Salina, despite first-group dirt and cold > temps). The 226 was mostly lamented by SP guys, who were overtired to the > point where they needed the soft compound. Some of us experimented with > 226s later on, and except for wet conditions, found the 230s to be > superior. Sort of a win-win situation when the longer-lasting tire is also > faster. > > Someone has again mentioned using a durometer. I have yet to see one that > is capable of giving repeatable readings. I'm talking within a 100% > margin! I got one intending to use it to track the heat-cycle lifetime of > 230s. After taking a series of readings on a set of tires and seeing no > pattern, I found that I could do the same thing on one tire. It's a random > number generator. There is probably some sort of expensive lab equipment > that's capable (if used right, which probably includes taking 10,000 > readings and then feeding that through a statistical analysis) but it's not > hand-held and portable. If there's a series using it "successfully" they > probably have just defined it as a success and never bother taking the > durometer out of its case.... And they've gone to some other method such > as a spec tire (excellent solution in some situations, obviously not > workable in Solo) or an exclusion list (not necessarily a hopeless solution > as long as the competitors and tire companies don't care enough to try to > find an advantage). > > We've hashed this question out over and over and over and over and over and > over and over and over and over again. We generally keep getting the same > suggestions: > > 1) seems like it's obvious and perfect - tread wear rating. Problems: > you can't really compare the testing they do with autocrossing. The number > is relatively arbitrary. It doesn't take into consideration things like > tread pattern and carcass. My own anecdotal experience had by far the > highest treadwear tires I've ever autocrossed on lasting the shortest time. > And having seen other "real" street tires with lots of tread after someone > has autocrossed on them, it wasn't a fluke. Another problem is that there > are plenty of tires out there with "acceptable" treadwear ratings that > perform nearly as well as our current "R" tires, but with a real street > tread on them aren't going to last very well autocrossing. The real killer > is that these tires are absurdly expensive. > > 2) So add them to the exclusion list. OK, just how far do we go? Some of > these tires are OEM on cars like Miatas - someone shows up with a new Miata > and we tell him he can't run in Stock since he's got his OEM Pilots on his > car??? Yeah, that's a great solution. Who is going to maintain this list? > What sort of agenda are they going to have? How often are updates > allowed? Ultimately I think this would just lead to us having to run > shorter-lived but more expensive tires. Yes, the tire companies might just > support this one.... > > 3) an "allowable" list. Sort of a spec-tire list. Problem here is that > that's going to be a big list, but if you start by allowing any OEM tire > you've just defeated the purpose. > > Seems to me what we want is something that is fair, and "affordable". What > we've got is certainly fair (though I personally liked the days when there > was just one tire at the top; at least you know you weren't losing due to > tires! Now with at least three choices, who knows? I can't afford to buy > sets of all of them and do the testing....) At least I can go out and buy > whatever tire I want. Affordable is a touchy question. I haven't learned > the trick of how to sh*t money, so buying tires hurts. I'd love to buy > fewer of them. I'd be happy to support rules that promoted that. I've > found that less adhesion doesn't hurt the fun factor; heck, in some ways > it helps! But I'm also not willing to compromise my competitiveness if I > can help it. Given that I haven't found that "R" tires wear faster than > high-end street tires and that they certainly seem to cost lots less, I'm > not sure that we can do much better than what we've got now. Especially > with 3 companies out there with competitive rubber, there are choices. And > I'm sure the tire companies are aware of tire life issues. As much as > they'd like to be able to sell us 1-event tires, they realize that's not > going to work. And I don't think a tread compound that soft would be > likely to make most of us go fast anyway (based on my 226 experiences). It > seems to me that the market will force the tire companies to work towards > longer-lasting, faster tires. Look at Kumho's reputation for durability > and low cost, yet they seem to be quite competitive. That's a rep that the > others would love to have. I'm not all that sure that they aren't all > somewhat comparable, but Kumho's recent success has got to have gotten the > attention of the others. My first set of G-Forces has surprised me a bit > with their durability. If they can improve on this.... > > So I'll ask a question: what are you trying to accomplish with a rules > change? Or to rephrase it, just what is the problem with the current > situation? Don't tell me "street tires are cheaper to run" cause I really > don't think they are, at least not in a competitive situation. Local > street tire classes are great. It would be interesting to look at tire > life there. But I don't think that scales up to the national level. > Forcing us to buy Pilots (or whatever the best legal "real" street tire > ended up being) would be a significant step in the wrong direction. Be > careful what you wish for.... > > Paul and Meredith Brown > > MR2: "Not the easiest car in the world to work on" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 12:51:02 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Mike Bultemeier'" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:46:10 -0500 Subject: RE: Slicks and other Hallucinations >As it is, it appears that my mildly modified and street driven Cobra have been banished to CM,< >>C-Mod? You said you bought your weed where? Maybe A-Mod or E-Mod? But I'd bet my last million it Ain't CM.<< Sorry, minor brain malfunction when remembering Mustang progression of FS, ESP, CP, EM. BTW, here's a list of mods: K&N air filter, custom ram air, stiffer springs and c/c plates, ss brake lines, Perf. Friction "Z" pads, and subframe connectors. Sounds like a pretty potent EM package, huh? Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:06:32 1999 From: Sam Strano To: John Whitling , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:04:57 -0400 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n At 02:49 PM 4/22/99 -0400, John Whitling wrote: >My point of bringing this up is not to have every tire company have to reengineer it's >existing tire line. It's to keep any tire company from coming out with an autox only >tire like the 226 was. You think the tire situation is bad now? In the early ninties >it was a real mess. Things are relatively stable now. > >The SCCA members have looked into ways of policing tires in the past. It never >happened, mainly because of complex proposals and ... ahem .. politics. If a simple to >implement speed rating limitation can help, why shouldn't we try it??? FWIW, under this "rule", any Kumho less than 15" in diameter would be illegal. They are *only* V-rated tires. Furhermore the 226 could have been Z-rated, it was the same construction as the 230, but why the hell bother for an autox compound. But, if the rule existed, they'd rate 'em anyway. The DOT rule is here, and let's face it, these aren't street tires. Speed ratings have NOTHING to do with the wear of the tires or the handling of 'em. I'm so tired of everyone thinking that. In general it is true that Z-tires handle better than non-Z's, but the fact they are speed rated isn't the reason. That's because a car that needs a Z tire tends to be sporty, hence you get a handling tire. That's the only reason it SEEMS like the speed rating dictates the wear and handling. Example: Some Cadillac's have Z rated Goodyear Eagle GA's on them. The same crappy tire found on grandma's Corsica. Does the fact they are speed rated make them handle better or last longer or shorter than the S rated ones? No. Sam Strano Jr. Strano Performance Parts 800-729-1831 814-849-3417 (tech.) www.stranoparts.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:07:41 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:04:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? > dg50@daimlerchrysler.com wrote: >> Why do we require DOT race tires? >> Why not allow race slicks too? > Well, remember that *allowing* slicks is the same as *requiring* > slicks for those that want to be competitive. Assuming, of course, that a given slick is faster than a given DOT tire. In terms of tread pattern, a g-force with a couple of runs on it is a slick with two tiny grooves in it - for all intents and purposes, a slick. So for a "real slick" to be faster, there has to be other differences other than tread pattern. Are there? >> Good enough for CP, good enough for ESP > Well, most Prepared cars are trailered to events; many SP cars > will be driven to the events; some driven their on their race > tires. And most in SP will be on the most competitive rubber -- > not real safe -- not real legal. > Note that many SP cars are daily drivers. I know - mine is. However, I can't think of a single SP driver _at all_ who doesn't change tires at the event site (assuming they drove the car there) You either squish them in the car somehow, or you get someone to bring your tires for you - or both. Ask Kevin Howell. ;) So I don't think the "daily driver" argument holds. SP cars are by and large either trailered or change tires on site. The few oddballs that drive on race rubber are just that - oddballs - and will always do oddball things. > Further, unlike Prepared cars, many SP cars are very much still > covered by their factory warranty. However, at least some > factory warranties are voided by running the car with slicks. Hrm. You have a point, but I wonder how many unvoided warranties are really out there - and to void or not to void is a driver's choice, not the rules'. > Many of the cars are not designed to handle the G-forces > possible with slicks. Which comes back to "are slicks really better?" Hey Byron, you awake? Have you got some GEEZ! data on slicks-vs-g-forces? DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:14:21 1999 From: Jenaro Rodriguez To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:13:29 -0700 Subject: Safety Tech Procedure I feel really stupid asking this, but it just occurred to me. When your car is getting Tech'ed, do you leave the steering wheel locked or with the key in the ignition and the steering wheel lock disengaged? Does it make a difference? I've gone through my whole front suspension thoroughly, replacing bushings and checking everything. Every event that I go to I keep getting the comment that I might have a loose inner Tie Rod. For whatever its worth the car is an '83 RX7 GS with manual (non-power) steering. I always leave the key in the ignition with the lock disengaged. Any suggestions will be appreciated. -- Jenaro Rodriguez '83 RX7 GS THE CSP-RX7 PROJECT http://www.cnw.com/~dicej From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:15:33 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:15:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? dg50@daimlerchrysler.com wrote: > In terms of tread pattern, a g-force with a couple of runs on it is a > slick with two tiny grooves in it - for all intents and purposes, a > slick. So for a "real slick" to be faster, there has to be other > differences other than tread pattern. > > Are there? Yes, real slicks are massively different in terms of construction. Because they don't have to adhere to DOT regulations, for example, they are much, much, much lighter -- and the tire is the number one absolute worst place to have weight on a car. A bald DOT tire may be slick, but that doesn't make it a slick! :-) Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:23:52 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:31:44 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gentry I said: >>>This isn't an official definition (I've never seen one), but IMO, a closed car has a roof which is an intergal part of the structure. Removeable >factory tops wouldn't qualify.>> Tom replies: >Midwest Council and VSCDA accept hardtop equipped sports cars as closed cars, I don't have any first hand experience with other groups. According to your definition T-tops and targas would be open cars.... No. Targas and T-tops *do* have a roof structure integrated with the rest of the body shell. Porsche and Fiat made 911s, 914s and X 1/9s into targas because they believed Federally-mandated rollover protection would prevent them from selling open top cars. >I have always wondered about the cars with glass tops. They race under closed car rules, but in a roll over will revert to open car status when the glass shatters. Hmmmmmm. Good question. I'd say the question hinges on what holds the glass up -- if it's a part of the bodyshell, like glass-topped 911s, then the roof structure shouldn't collapse. >Yes, you could argue that my hardtop could be torn off in a rollover, I would argue that it is securely attached with grade 8 fasteners. It may not come off, but will it collapse? That's the real threat in rollovers. The roof stays attached, but the headroom's kind of short. Of course, there's no guarantee that a fixed tin top won't collapse (saw this happen to an airplane I was supposed to be in later the same day....), but the chances are better the structure will take the load. And advertising aside, *I* don't trust the windshield header to hold things up by itself. >No, I am not willing to give it a go! LOL Aww -- where's your thirst for knowledge?! :) Jamie (former terminal velocity test pilot -- digging holes deeper!) '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:27:26 1999 From: "Meyer, Brian J" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:26:04 -0500 Subject: RE: Why DOT? Why not slicks? The single biggest reason I can think of not to allow slicks in SP is the sizes available. The rules for Prepared put limits on the size of wheel you can run. In SP, the wheel sizes are open, but the DOT requirement limits the sizes to what is available from BFG, Hoosier, Kumho, Toyo, etc... In the class I run in (CSP) the widest DOT tire you can get for a 13" wheel is a 225 (8 in.). If slicks were allowed, nothing (except my bank account) would keep me from running 13" wide slicks all around! I ran some cheap semi-hard slicks on my car for a while. I don't have any hard numbers to back it up, but I'd say they definitely have more grip then DOT tires. Brian Meyer '90 CRX - CSP Wichita Region Street Prepared - no minimum weight, no maximum wheel. This is supposed to be cheaper then Prepared? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:32:26 1999 From: "Daniel J. Radcliffe" To: Jenaro Rodriguez Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:31:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure Jenaro, The tech inspectors would really appreciate it if you left your keys in the ignition during tech inspection. It allows them to easily check for excessive steering box play, among other things. Disregard if your ignition lock is on the dashboard. Dan Radcliffe Sussex, WI '82 Z-28 CP On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jenaro Rodriguez wrote: > I feel really stupid asking this, but it just occurred to me. When your > car is getting Tech'ed, do you leave the steering wheel locked or with > the key in the ignition and the steering wheel lock disengaged? Does it > make a difference? I've gone through my whole front suspension > thoroughly, replacing bushings and checking everything. Every event that > I go to I keep getting the comment that I might have a loose inner Tie > Rod. For whatever its worth the car is an '83 RX7 GS with manual > (non-power) steering. I always leave the key in the ignition with the > lock disengaged. Any suggestions will be appreciated. > -- > Jenaro Rodriguez > '83 RX7 GS > THE CSP-RX7 PROJECT > http://www.cnw.com/~dicej > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:43:23 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:46:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure >The tech inspectors would really appreciate it if you left your keys in >the ignition during tech inspection. It allows them to easily check for >excessive steering box play, among other things. > >Disregard if your ignition lock is on the dashboard. So what if your steering lock doesn't work? :) My car has that problem thanks to a break-in it suffered in a previous life. I bypassed the factory ignition switch and popped one in myself, so I guess I'd fall into the "ignition lock on the dashboard" category. I'll bet it would sure fool any thief now...! :) - Justin '83 BMW 320i HS Team SOL #4 Not that we generally have to worry about our cars getting stolen at an autocross anyway... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 13:49:05 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Jamie Sculerati'" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:43:59 -0500 Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >>Targas and T-tops *do* have a roof structure integrated with the rest of the body shell. Porsche and Fiat made 911s, 914s and X 1/9s into targas because they believed Federally-mandated rollover protection would prevent them from selling open top cars.<< This doesn't fit with the rules. Again, top on = closed car, top off = open car. In other words, if they run top off, they still need a roll bar 2" above the driver's helmet. Top on, they don't need it. >>It may not come off, but will it collapse? That's the real threat in rollovers. The roof stays attached, but the headroom's kind of short. Of course, there's no guarantee that a fixed tin top won't collapse<< Exactly! What would lead one to believe that a fixed roof is any less likely to collapse than a removable one? If you really want to go there we need to do structural analysis of every roof. BTW, my TR-6 has a rollbar that meets or exceeds the criteria for a closed cars, it just isn't tall enough to be 2" over my helmet. Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive upside down! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 14:02:53 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:06:21 -0400 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars An interesting car to use for comparison is the new BMW Z3 coupe vs. a Z3 convertible with a hardtop (I've seen pictures of one club racing - not sure if it was SCCA or BMW CCA). Would the roof collapse on either of these cars in a rollover? What about with a rollbar? Would a bar like, say, an HMS SportBar make either/both cars safer? Not having owned or rolled either car :) I have no hard data on this. I would imagine that the Z3 convertible with a hardtop would be rather prone to collapse, whereas the coupe would not since the top is an integral part of that design. A roll bar would help both cars, and would probably make a roll in the convertible a lot more survivable. It could be a problem finding a roll bar that would be 2" above the driver's head AND allow the hardtop to fit. - Justin Please don't roll my '83 BMW 320i :) Team SOL #4 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 14:03:43 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Jenaro Rodriguez'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:04:07 -0500 Subject: RE: Safety Tech Procedure I would suggest leaving the wheel unlocked, or maybe even the car running. Part of tech is making sure the steering and all pedals are tight, with no obscene free play. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jenaro Rodriguez [SMTP:dicej@cnw.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:13 PM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Safety Tech Procedure > > I feel really stupid asking this, but it just occurred to me. When your > car is getting Tech'ed, do you leave the steering wheel locked or with > the key in the ignition and the steering wheel lock disengaged? Does it > make a difference? I've gone through my whole front suspension > thoroughly, replacing bushings and checking everything. Every event that > I go to I keep getting the comment that I might have a loose inner Tie > Rod. For whatever its worth the car is an '83 RX7 GS with manual > (non-power) steering. I always leave the key in the ignition with the > lock disengaged. Any suggestions will be appreciated. > -- > Jenaro Rodriguez > '83 RX7 GS > THE CSP-RX7 PROJECT > http://www.cnw.com/~dicej > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 14:04:38 1999 From: adozzell@sc9.intel.com (TONY OZZELLO P802 AWS) To: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:01:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? >> Well, most Prepared cars are trailered to events; many SP cars >> will be driven to the events; some driven their on their race >> tires. And most in SP will be on the most competitive rubber -- > not real >safe -- not real legal. > >> Note that many SP cars are daily drivers. > >I know - mine is. However, I can't think of a single SP driver _at all_ who >doesn't change tires at the event site (assuming they drove the car there) > >You either squish them in the car somehow, or you get someone to bring your >tires for you - or both. Ask Kevin Howell. ;) > >So I don't think the "daily driver" argument holds. SP cars are by and large >either trailered or change tires on site. The few oddballs that drive on race >rubber are just that - oddballs - and will always do oddball things. Hey I resemble that remark! Here is SFR I think most of us ESP drivers come to play with the tires already on the car. A good number of other folks do also. It's very nice to just mess with the pressures at the site instead of having to change tires. Tony Ozzello #23 ESP SFR From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 14:13:09 1999 From: Jefrem Iwaniw To: wheeltowheel@abingdon.sun.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:11:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: WTB: open 16-20 ft trailer I'm looking for a trailer, preferably aluminum (but open to steel), to haul a 2000lb BMW 2002. Plusses would be electric winch, tire rack, toolbox, full floor. Prefer within 3 hours of Dallas/Ft. Worth. Thanks for your time. -------------------------------- -Jefrem Iwaniw, jiwaniw@iigo.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 14:52:56 1999 From: Derek Punch To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:51:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Best Rain autox/street tire? Your friendly Kumho dealer made a tire in limited numbers-a 225/50/16" V700 Victoracer (current autox compound) in 11/32" tread depth. That's not a misprint. I ran a set of them and they lasted 22K glorious (mostly street)miles with Autox setup. Standard rotation and 2 rim flips later-they wore quite evenly. If enough people ping Kumho about it, they may just start making them again in more sizes. I just recently found another set of them and plan on reliving the experiences. Best rain tire ever. Best before that was the old RE71R. This was on a 3rd Gen Rx7 car-which is generally easy on tires. Derek At 01:37 PM 4/22/99 -0600, Mark J. Andy wrote: > >Howdy, > >I'm in need of street tires for the neon and would like to get some summer >only tires that will be suitable for heavy rain use in autox. I care >about stuff in the following order: > >1st) Good rain tire for autox >2nd) At least 10k miles of street wear (with race alignment) >3rd) Street performance > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 14:57:09 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net, TeamZ3@aol.com, Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:03:17 -0400 Subject: Motels near AMS for SEDIV Those of you coming to the BFGoodrich, SF Motorsports Southeast Divisional at Atlanta Motor Speedway in Hampton, GA on May 1-2 may want to use the following lodgings. The following motels are available at Exit 70 of I-75 (the closest motels on the interstate to Atlanta Motor Speedway). Brittany Motor Inn 800-654-6305 Budget Inn 770-957-9683 Hampton Inn 770-914-0077 Econo Lodge 770-957-2651 Masters Economy Inn 800-633-3434 Red Carpet Inn 800-251-1962 Comfort Inn 800-228-5150 Best Western 800-528-1234 Ben Thatcher Event Chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 15:17:59 1999 From: Alan Pozner To: "'Jamie Sculerati'" , Phil Vanner , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:15:26 -0400 Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars I propose that we abbreviate "Read the Rule Book" RRB to save time and bandwidth when answering this type of email. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Sculerati [SMTP:jamies@mrj.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 3:42 PM > To: Phil Vanner; 'Tom Gentry'; 'Jeff Winchell'; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Vanner > > > > >Not that "high speed" is an option for me, but is a roadster with a > >factory hardtop installed considered a closed car? So you'd still need a > >roll bar but just not as tall? > > > This isn't an official definition (I've never seen one), but IMO, a closed > car has a roof which is an intergal part of the structure. Removeable > factory tops wouldn't qualify. > > Jamie > '92 Prelude Si (full metal top) > Speed Demon Racing > http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 15:27:06 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Alan Pozner" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:27:38 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >I propose that we abbreviate "Read the Rule Book" RRB to save time and >bandwidth when answering this type of email. ======================= Some acronym wizard already beat ya to it. It's RTFB. It's short for Read The Frickin' Book. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 15:37:31 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: "Mohler, Jeff" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:38:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > > I would suggest leaving the wheel unlocked, or maybe even the car running. Not running. A tech inspector has to stick their hands into the engine compartment, best to let them do their job safely. Key in, engine off. > Part of tech is making sure the steering and all pedals are tight, with no > obscene free play. Definitely. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 15:45:47 1999 From: Tim Reinhardt To: "Team.net" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:54:18 +0900 Subject: Caster vs Camber in Miatas etc ? With the trade off on positive caster vs negative camber on some cars such as the Miata, what's a person to do ? Are there gains to be made by trading caster for more camber and what are the down sides? Reply directly if this has been discussed to death in another Team.net life. I just had my new Miata aligned and I asked for max. positive caster and max. negative camber in the front. They dialed in the caster and there was little room for negative camber. Tim Reinhardt From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 15:59:57 1999 From: "D. Barry Stubbs" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:00:07 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for Hoooooooosiers Received today the first set of Hoosiers that I've dealt with (thanks, Wagner). Was looking for suggestions for tire pressure. Car is FWD, approx 2800 unloaded pounds, 70/30 F/R weight distribution. Tires are 225/14s. Surface is aged asphault, and the weather is warmish (think Central GA). Any ideas? TIA. -- D. Barry Stubbs http://surf.to/z24man (912) 745-9429 AOL IM: thez24man z24man@earthlink.net ICQ #5409648 #101GS Atlanta Region SoloII 88 2.8 5Spd White Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 16:01:51 1999 From: GMAnkeny@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:00:45 EDT Subject: PAT KELLY Pat, can't get my computer to talk to yours, please e-mail me so I can reply with a question. Thanks Guy Ankeny From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 16:03:32 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Tim Reinhardt , "Team.net" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Caster vs Camber in Miatas etc ? There is a good discussion on caster at under "Tech Talk". The Miata's SAI is so high already that the additional negative camber gained in a turn is negligible, so discount that argument when discussing the topic. Personally I have always traded off caster since I cannot get enough negative camber on the front of my Miata (-1.2). For a car without power steering more caster might be more important. hth, Craig Blome who can prepare a Tour trophy winning Miata, even if he can't drive it... --- Tim Reinhardt wrote: > With the trade off on positive caster vs negative > camber on some cars > such as the Miata, what's a person to do ? Are > there gains to be made > by trading caster for more camber and what are the > down sides? Reply > directly if this has been discussed to death in > another Team.net life. > > I just had my new Miata aligned and I asked for max. > positive caster and > max. negative camber in the front. They dialed in > the caster and there > was little room for negative camber. > > Tim Reinhardt > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 16:08:32 1999 From: jct@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:07:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? DG writes: > Well, most Prepared cars are trailered to events; many SP cars > will be driven to the events; some driven their on their race > tires. And most in SP will be on the most competitive rubber -- > not real safe -- not real legal. >>>I know - mine is. However, I can't think of a single SP driver _at all_ who doesn't change tires at the event site (assuming they drove the car there) You either squish them in the car somehow, or you get someone to bring your tires for you - or both. Ask Kevin Howell. ;) So I don't think the "daily driver" argument holds. SP cars are by and large either trailered or change tires on site. The few oddballs that drive on race rubber are just that - oddballs - and will always do oddball things.<<< So Dennis, are you calling all of us oddballs, including Kevin, who sometimes drive our cars to the site with the race tires on? You're brand new to the trailering and SP thing and I think you may be spending too much time sniffing the CO in the garage. You'll find many of us enjoy not having to haul the trailer around when the event is less than 50 miles away, despite the thumping 900 lb springs up front. I'm glad we run DOT streetable Kumho tires that don't need several runs to heat up nor put unnecessarily higher loads on the frame and suspension, slicks are different! Yeah, the rules are such that the car's can be stretched to marginal streetability sometimes but they are usually still street legal. Maybe we should all be running $4/gallon racing fuel as well and really stir up the debate? But I think that's why the SCCA invented classes like CP. John.... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 16:25:14 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net, racers@rt66.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:21:29 EDT Subject: Re: The tire thing^n In a message dated 4/22/99 1:52:47 PM Central Daylight Time, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: << The SCCA members have looked into ways of policing tires in the past. It never happened, mainly because of complex proposals and ... ahem .. politics >> Having been involved in some of these 'complex proposals' would you please enlighten us as to what 'specific' examples of "ahem...politics" you're refering to? Please include names, dates, places, etc. Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 16:27:17 1999 From: Gemery@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:26:01 EDT Subject: RE: Tom's (dead) horses Tom Gentry writes: >Then the trailered cars start appearing [in SP], and now you're >talking about slicks. Tom - trailering has nothing to do with classification! We've got people with $100k motorhomes trailering Stock vehicles only 10-15 miles to our events in Oregon. It's okay if they have the money to do that! Does it affect how competitive the car/driver is? No!!! I'll agree that slicks really don't belong in SP. >As it is, it appears that my mildly modified and street driven Cobra >have been banished to [EM], which proves to me that the rule makers >aren't serious about a Street Prepared category anyway. Nah, with your list of modifications, it proves that you're not serious about competing in ESP. Lose that subframe connector and you're legal... hey, you could even unbolt it at the event while other people are changing tires! Or don't lose it and keep hitting that dead horse. George Emery gemery@aol.com http://members.aol.com/gemery From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 16:45:03 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:46:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Best Rain autox/street tire? .....but they sound like monster gumbo mudders going down the road...... On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:17:59 -0500 "Mohler, Jeff" writes: >I used the Yok. A032Rs last year, worked great in the rain..and snow. > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 16:45:54 1999 From: David K Yeung To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:35:12 -0500 Subject: Re: one of my favorite topics > The speed rating is not a rating of how a tire resists >heat! It's a rating of how fast the tire can go and maintain its >temperature rating (A, B, or C). there's alot of speculation as to what the speed rating of a tire really measures. this should help clear of obfuscate things... SAE laboratory speed test procedure for passenger car tires (SAE J1561) states: Upon visual inspection of the dismounted tire, any visible evidence of the following constitutes tire failure: a. Tread separation b. Cord separation c. ply separation d. bead separation e. sidewall separation f. chunking g. inner liner separation h. cracking and definitions for each of these conditions are also given. the test procedure starts from room temperature with 80% of maximum load capability, initial pressure based on speed rating (higher rating has higher pressure) no slip angle. The tire is taken from rest to 24mph below the speed rating over 10 minutes, the tire is maintained at this constant speed for 10 minutes then incremented 6 mph every 10 minutes and maintained at the maximum speed rating for 10 minutes. the prescribed test dynamometer is smooth steel with 67.23 inch diameter. let the debate continue....... Dave Yeung Houston Region former Space Shuttle tire engineer From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 17:26:21 1999 From: "Steve Hoult" To: "Mark J. Andy" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:58:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Best Rain autox/street tire? The Yokos also come in 205/55R14 for slightly (ok, so it's more then slightly) more. While I don't use them for autocrossing in the rain I can say their grip in the wet is pretty darn good. Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 17:27:34 1999 From: Chris Heiny To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:05:21 -0400 Subject: Free '84 GTI Rochester NY area - free '84 GTI for parts or fixup. Not currently running, but reasonably complete. Also not beautiful. Call me at 716 427 3186 (days), 315 597 5323 (eves), or e-mail to heiny@eznet.net. Chris Heiny 73 Barracuda 383 - C-prepared From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 17:27:47 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: DUELRACER Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:26:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Street Tire classes Paul-- FWIW - Loren Williams in Wichita has been after me to offer a Street Tire class at Mirror Khana. If I get enough takers (4 or more) I will do so. If I get a bunch of takrs, I may divvy it up in Crown fashion. "May." Who knows what will transpire at this early date? Nebraska also has shown interest. If there is also interest in KC, all the better. You can tell people that if they want to, they can enter "Street Tire" (but also list the regular SCCA class for my reference). The catch is that it will have to be a heads-up class, no PAX (because we have no clocks in Mirror Khana). However, if I have enough entries, and variety, to offer ST1 and ST2, that will mitigate that somewhat. My focus is to maximize the fun factor. If ST does that, all to the good! --Rocky From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 17:33:13 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? >So I don't think the "daily driver" argument holds. SP cars are by and large >either trailered or change tires on site. The few oddballs that drive on race >rubber are just that - oddballs - and will always do oddball things.<<< Then I guess I'm an oddball (and I'm sure I won't hear any arguments to that from people who know me). I drove to Tallahassee (190 miles one way) on my RA1s last weekend, took FTD, and drove home on the RA1s. I'd love to see some numbers to compare how many SP cars are trailered vs. how many stock cars are trailered. Bet they'd come out about the same. Granted, not many people would want to drive that far in a car with a 6 point cage and Momo seat with 450lb springs, and they probably wouldn't get off on wearing the earplugs on the highway, but a LOT of SP cars are driven to the events Broad, sweeping generalities do not a valid argument make.... David Hawkins 85 Mr2 CSP/ITA TLS 15 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 17:44:29 1999 From: Jason Bowles To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:42:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? > >> Well, most Prepared cars are trailered to events; many SP cars >> will be driven to the events; some driven their on their race >> tires. And most in SP will be on the most competitive rubber -- > not real >safe -- not real legal. > >> Note that many SP cars are daily drivers. > >I know - mine is. However, I can't think of a single SP driver _at all_ who >doesn't change tires at the event site (assuming they drove the car there) > >You either squish them in the car somehow, or you get someone to bring your >tires for you - or both. Ask Kevin Howell. ;) > >So I don't think the "daily driver" argument holds. SP cars are by and large >either trailered or change tires on site. The few oddballs that drive on race >rubber are just that - oddballs - and will always do oddball things. Course you dont drive on them they dont last especially since I am using hoosiers, I do drive to one event on slicks but it is 15 minutes from my house. >> Further, unlike Prepared cars, many SP cars are very much still > covered by >their factory warranty. However, at least some >> factory warranties are voided by running the car with slicks. > >Hrm. You have a point, but I wonder how many unvoided warranties are >really out >there - and to void or not to void is a driver's choice, not the rules'. My CSP Neon has an unvoided warranty, although it is not all in tact..any modification I have done that may affect the broken part is not covered..which doesnt leave much in SP..you can modify at least one part that connects to others that about void the whole warranty within the car. But what you dont tell the dealership wont hurt you. Ive had steering knuckles and timing belt replaced and new valves on the exhaust side all while under warranty and while in CSP, I had not done any head work at the time of the timing belt break (29k). The car was also in racing trim, with both front seats being aluminum racing seats and 5 point harnesses. No I wasnt racing the car at either breakage. >> Many of the cars are not designed to handle the G-forces >> possible with slicks. > >Which comes back to "are slicks really better?" > >Hey Byron, you awake? Have you got some GEEZ! data on slicks-vs-g-forces? I'd like to try slicks with all this talk on them...where can I get some? I run 13x8 rims.. Jason From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 17:59:19 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: bthatch@juno.com, teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:04:19 EDT Subject: Re: Motels near AMS for SEDIV > The following motels are available at Exit 70 of I-75 (the closest motels > on the interstate to Atlanta Motor Speedway). > Actually, the closest/quickest motels to the site are now on the north side of Griffin, GA. They are newer too and straight shot down Hwy 31 from site. I believe the new ones are Ramada and Comfort Inn. Highly recommend avoiding the Holiday Inn in Griffin. I stayed there 3 years ago and it was the grungiest hotel I've ever stayed in. Cheapest hotel is Masters Econo near I-75; not the best, but worth the money @ approx $30 - $35/night. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 18:19:03 1999 From: Dick Rasmussen To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:18:43 -0400 Subject: Tire History Lesson - Again FYI The absolutely fastest tire for stock class Datsun Z, most Porsches, Morgan's, etc. in 1977 (yes 1977) was the Michelin XWX. This was a 70 series (remember them) that came stock on Porsches and on Ferraris and Mercedes. A 195/70 X 14 cost about $150 each at a discount tire chain which warranteed them for 5000 miles (for the first set). Did not work worth a darn for the first 2/3rds of the tread. Let me tell you, $150 per tire was one heck of a lot of money in 1977!!!! You better believe that they had their own set of rims to preserve them for competition once they got to primo tread depth. I lugged them up 3 flights of stairs to my apartment too many times . . . but they allowed those of us who ran them to WIN so we paid the price. The best tire thing that ever happened to stock and street prepared autocrossing was tire manufacturers providing competition tires at discounted prices!!!! In my "humble (but been there, done that) opinion. Dick Rasmussen CM 85 85 Van Diemen RF-85 Formula Ford From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 18:27:51 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, cmcmillan@crawco.com, Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:35:04 -0400 Subject: Great SEDIV NEWS! Mark Chiles, Southeastern Division Solo II Steward, announced today that they have rented the large paved lot adjacent to the course area at Atlanta Motor Speedway for parking at the BFGoodrich Team T/A, SF Motorsports Southeast Divisional Series event to be held May 1-2, 1999. This announcement means that the entire 13 acre North Turn parking lot at AMS will be used for a course. So expect to see a looooong course to whet the appetite of the most ardent soloist. You may enter this event on-line and pay when you arrive at the site by going to the Atlanta Region Website at then jump to the Solo II information page and click on the SE Divisional website there. Atlanta Region will be hosting a regional event this Sunday, April 25, for those who would like to get tuned up for the Divisional. You may register for that event on-line at and jump to the Solo II registration site. Ben Thatcher Atlanta Region S2 co-chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 19:03:49 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:04:24 -0600 Subject: Stereo Mods in stock class. I thought the subject would catch attention..but seriously. Im going to have some stereo work done (light stuff) and at the same time I want some substantial soundproofing done on the car as well. This will add weight, MAYBE 20-40lbs worth tops. Am I violating any rule by doing this? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 19:15:36 1999 From: John Whitling To: MBD96@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:17:42 -0400 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n Right off the top of my head here's one example .... I think it was the '89 Nationals in Salina when BFG first introduced the 226 series tires. They were clearly different tires from the ones that had been supplied by BFG all year ... specially made for Salina. The powers that be (not you I understand) at the time let those tires run. That was pure politics. Were you running a G stock SVO back then on Generals? In any case I'm sure you remember the year and circumstances that I'm referring to. John Whitling John Whitling MBD96@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/22/99 1:52:47 PM Central Daylight Time, > alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: > > << The SCCA members have looked into ways of policing tires in the past. It > never > happened, mainly because of complex proposals and ... ahem .. politics >> > > Having been involved in some of these 'complex proposals' would you please > enlighten us as to what 'specific' examples of "ahem...politics" you're > refering to? > > Please include names, dates, places, etc. > > Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 20:24:46 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Joshua Hadler" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:19:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Hadler >Not running. A tech inspector has to stick their hands into the engine >compartment, best to let them do their job safely. Key in, engine off. Of course, since there's no standardized procedures for tech inspections, this varies. We do ours with the engine running, in order to check the throttle return and look for leaks. The inspector knows not to stick his or her hands into the rapidly moving bits. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 20:26:33 1999 From: washburn To: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:22:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Why DOT? Why not slicks? dg50@daimlerchrysler.com wrote: > > With all the tire talk lately, this question has surfaced in my mind: > > Why do we require DOT race tires? Why not allow race slicks too? > Perhaps it's because it's in keeping with the spirit of a "stock" car. Meaning that it should be street drivable. Meaning they should have DOT approval. Meaning........well.....that's all I mean. :) end-o-meaningfull message -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 20:29:42 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:24:24 -0400 Subject: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars -----Original Message----- From: Alan Pozner This is cute, but I regarded the question as legitimate -- I haven't found an official definition of "closed car" in the rulebook or anywhere else. While common sense suggests to me that a removeable top doesn't fit that definition, I've also found that common sense doesn't always apply to the book. Or network sparring partners.... Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr >I propose that we abbreviate "Read the Rule Book" RRB to save time and >bandwidth when answering this type of email. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Phil Vanner >> >> >> >> >Not that "high speed" is an option for me, but is a roadster with a >> >factory hardtop installed considered a closed car? So you'd still need a >> >roll bar but just not as tall? >> >> >> This isn't an official definition (I've never seen one), but IMO, a closed >> car has a roof which is an intergal part of the structure. Removeable >> factory tops wouldn't qualify. >> >> Jamie >> '92 Prelude Si (full metal top) >> Speed Demon Racing >> http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr >> From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 20:39:14 1999 From: washburn To: Bill Fuhrmann Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:35:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Car numbers was - May 1999 Cover Jeff Mohler wrote: > > > ON top of that..Ive been tempted as a Timing & Scoring worker to complain > > harshly about a car in GS in "our area somewhere" that has the letters in > > some kinda thin FU-Man-Chu style writing. > to which Bill Fuhrmann replied: > Our rules (Minnesota, Met Council) do not require a one inch stroke width > but do allow the tech inspectors to fail a car that has unreadable (in the > tech inspector's opinion) numbers. Funny. That GS car is a transplant from the Minnesota region. (That is if it is a white GS car) We sent him down there just to cheese you off! ;-P -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 20:47:22 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Tom Gentry" , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:42:00 -0400 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gentry >>It may not come off, but will it collapse? That's the real threat in rollovers. The roof stays attached, but the headroom's kind of short. Of course, there's no guarantee that a fixed tin top won't collapse<< >Exactly! What would lead one to believe that a fixed roof is any less likely to collapse than a removable one? Well, for starters, the fact that it's *part* of the bodyshell rather than simply attached to it -- this spreads the load into the entire shell. While it's not impossible to collapse a fixed roof, it's far less likely than collapsing a less rigid removeable roof attached to the body with a half-dozen or ten fasteners. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 21:17:45 1999 From: "Jan Schmidt" To: autox@autox.team.net, marka@telerama.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:16:18 -0500 Subject: Electrical Problem Hello List My wife left the lights on all day in her 93 suzuki swift. A co-worker tried to jump start it and that failed, too. I took a known good battery over to the suzuki and installed it and the entire electrical system was dead. Since it was now about 9:30 pm and in a crappy neighborhood, we called it a day. Tomorrow, when I look at it again , should I look at fuses, fusible links, fried wiring, etc? I am a fair shadetree mechanic, but electrical is definitely my weak area. TIA Bill Schmidt cs rx7 KC region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 21:24:51 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: , Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:30:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Tom's (dead) horses >>As it is, it appears that my mildly modified and street driven Cobra >>have been banished to [EM], which proves to me that the rule makers >>aren't serious about a Street Prepared category anyway. > >Nah, with your list of modifications, it proves that you're not serious about >competing in ESP. Lose that subframe connector and you're legal Oh, hell. I thought he was talking about a real Cobra! Phil "British cars on the mind again" Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 21:25:14 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Jamie Sculerati" , "Joshua Hadler" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:22:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure From: Jamie Sculerati >We do ours with the engine running, in order to check the >throttle return Explain to me why you can't check a throttle return with the engine off. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 21:47:13 1999 From: washburn To: Phil Ethier Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:43:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure > > From: Jamie Sculerati > > >We do ours with the engine running, in order to check the > >throttle return > Phil Ethier then quizzed: > Explain to me why you can't check a throttle return with the engine off. > You can I suppose. After this weekend, however, I would recommend checking it by actually depressing the throttle pedal all the way down from the inside of the car, not just yanking on the linkage from under the hood. An older Z car went wild on course Saturday after completing a practice excercise at our yearly spring warm up and novice orientation event. It looked to me like some reckless goofing off, and when I got near the car a white faced novice got out and said the throttle stuck. His father co-driver was quick thinking and reached over to turn off the ignition. They had taken out the floor mats, had two return springs in good shape, and linkages looked O.K. Turns out his carpets were not fully fastened or glued down, and the pedal was hanging up on it. Check those loose carpets techies. end-o-cautionary tale -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 21:47:13 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:45:51 EDT Subject: Folding Autocross Chairs I've noticed some very nice collapsible chairs at autocrosses recently. If possible, I'd like to find the high backed ones with the arms. Anyone know of sources for these? CHD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 22:19:01 1999 From: Paul and Meredith Brown To: John Whitling , MBD96@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:16:37 -0600 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n At 09:17 PM 4/22/99 -0400, John Whitling wrote: >Right off the top of my head here's one example .... >I think it was the '89 Nationals in Salina when BFG first introduced the 226 >series tires. They were clearly different tires from the ones that had been >supplied by BFG all year ... specially made for Salina. The powers that be (not >you I understand) at the time let those tires run. That was pure politics. Were >you running a G stock SVO back then on Generals? In any case I'm sure you >remember the year and circumstances that I'm referring to. I think if you look back, the tire rules were changed after that, since I believe that they met the letter (though clearly not the spirit) of the April 30 rule as it was then written. The kept the model name the same. Poorly written rule, not politics.... Paul and Meredith Brown MR2: "Not the easiest car in the world to work on" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 22:22:26 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: washburn@dwave.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:21:10 PDT Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure Last weekend we had another Stuck Throttle on a miata, This is a fairly comon problem from what I've heard, I agree that it should be checked on EVERY car.. Jeff > >> Explain to me why you can't check a throttle return with the engine off. >> >You can I suppose. After this weekend, however, I would recommend >checking it by actually depressing the throttle pedal all the way down >from the inside of the car, not just yanking on the linkage from under >the hood. An older Z car went wild on course Saturday after completing >a practice excercise at our yearly spring warm up and novice orientation >event. It looked to me like some reckless goofing off, and when I got >near the car a white faced novice got out and said the throttle stuck. >His father co-driver was quick thinking and reached over to turn off the >ignition. They had taken out the floor mats, had two return springs in >good shape, and linkages looked O.K. Turns out his carpets were not >fully fastened or glued down, and the pedal was hanging up on it. Check >those loose carpets techies. > >end-o-cautionary tale > >-- >Patrick Washburn >Wausau, WI Land of Cheese >95 DS Neon >Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 23:20:17 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:05:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure >Last weekend we had another Stuck Throttle on a miata, This is a >fairly comon problem from what I've heard, I agree that it should be >checked on EVERY car.. > >Jeff ====================== This wasn't the infamous Miata/carpet gas pedal hangup again was it? Seems like we TLS members ought to share a little of our precious duct tape with the Miata owners. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T "Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. Ah, you reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back. She's blinding, I'm flying, Right behind the rear-view mirror now. Got the feeling, power steering, Pistons popping, ain't no stopping now!" ------------------------------------------------------------- "Panama" by Van Halen From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 23:33:26 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Jamie Sculerati Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:33:13 -0600 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure Jamie Sculerati wrote: > > Of course, since there's no standardized procedures for tech inspections, > this varies. We do ours with the engine running, in order to check the > throttle return and look for leaks. The inspector knows not to stick his or > her hands into the rapidly moving bits. Uhm, tell me why you need the engine running to check throttle return? I just see it as an unneccessary risk to have a race car running, no driver in it, and someone grabbing the throttle cable. Especially when dealing with a mod car, where there is no such thing as a parking brake. What about a F500 or A-Mod car that use a CVT? I sure wouldn't want the engine revving without a driver behind the wheel... LOOK OUT! . DOH... :-P Sure, encountering such a critter is likely a rare occurance in many regions, but why not practice the same safe habits across the board. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 22 23:45:12 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Jamie Sculerati Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:44:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars Jamie Sculerati wrote: > > This is cute, but I regarded the question as legitimate -- I haven't found > an official definition of "closed car" in the rulebook or anywhere else. > While common sense suggests to me that a removeable top doesn't fit that > definition, I've also found that common sense doesn't always apply to the > book. Oh gee, it's here in the book somewhere... I just saw it today as a matter of fact. Now let's see... where is it... Aha! Here it is. SIIR 12.6 (Automotive definitions: page 86, '99 rule book) A. An open car is a convertible (with or without a full windshield), a targa-top-type car with less than a full windshield, or a T-top-type car with less than a full windshield. B. A closed car is one with a full roof, a targa-top-type car with a full windshield, or a T-top-type car with a full windshield. How's that? :-) No, I don't sleep with the book, I'm reviewing for a Safety Steward Seminar I'm conduction this weekend, so I happeded to come across it. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 00:03:12 1999 From: "Chris McCann" To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:05:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Integra autoXing I have a '95 GS-R and am just a beginner as of now...just did a McKamey school.... ...and myself (and a much more seasoned driver with a '98 GS-R) were reccomended by many just to leave it in 2nd ... i suppose it would depend on the course, but in 2nd gear i was hitting the fat part of the powerband just when i was coming to a brake point...though it IS a royal pain to get it in 1st... is there trick to that shift? (Besides the He-Man technique...) It seems really tough to do, especially without upsetting the car... I also want to start messing with tire pressure and alignment later in the season but am looking for some (street tires) starting points (so I'm not screwing around with that too much when i should be learning to drive...) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 00:31:28 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: eric10mm@qni.com, jslz3@hotmail.com, washburn@dwave.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:30:39 PDT Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure why yes it was... Eric linhoff wrote: >This wasn't the infamous Miata/carpet gas pedal hangup again was it? > >Seems like we TLS members ought to share a little of our precious duct tape >with the Miata owners. ;^) (extra large sig snipped) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 00:36:26 1999 From: Randy Walters To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:34:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Best Rain autox/street tire? Mark J. Andy wrote: >I'm in need of street tires for the neon and would like to get some summer >only tires that will be suitable for heavy rain use in autox. I care >about stuff in the following order: > >1st) Good rain tire for autox >2nd) At least 10k miles of street wear (with race alignment) >3rd) Street performance > >Again, this is on a neon with stock wheels, so anything that isn't sold in >14" sizes doesn't help. Stock tire size is 185/65-14, can go up to 205 in >width. Want to keep speedo at least close. >I've only seen one tire that seems to meet the bill: > >Yokohama AVS Intermediate. 205/60-14 ($72) I'd say a 195/55-14 would be a better choice than a 205/60-14. >Are there any others? I saw an RE-71 195/55-14, but that seems >narrower and would definately negatively affect the speedo... All the following sizes would affect your speedometer, but the 195 would affect it less. Here's some calculated outside diameters: 185/65-14 = 475.85 mm 195/55-14 = 570.10 mm 205/55-14 = 581.10 mm 205/60-14 = 601.60 mm I've used the 205/55-14 Yoko AVS Intermediate, the 195/55-14 RE71, and the 195/55-14 Dunlop SP8000 (all on various 14x6 wheels) as my street tires for both my cars and the Dunlop is superior to the others on my various So Calif Test Loops (familiar canyons, mountains, & offramps) They're grippier, quieter, and they don't follow the rain-grooves in our So Calif freeway pavement like the others do. They work very well in the rain and they're very inexpensive at about $70 from the Tire Rack. They're the best non-R rated 14" street tire i've ever used. They're also very popular with the Miata crowd :-) Randy Walters 85 Golf GTi D-Street Prepared 86 Jetta GLi E-Stock/Street Southern California From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 02:18:33 1999 From: rikracer To: Dick Rasmussen , autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:21:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Subject: Tire History Lesson - Again >FYI > >The absolutely fastest tire for stock class Datsun Z, most Porsches, >Morgan's, etc. in 1977 (yes 1977) was the Michelin XWX. This was a 70 >series (remember them) that came stock on Porsches and on Ferraris and >Mercedes. A 195/70 X 14 cost about $150 each at a discount tire chain which >warranteed them for 5000 miles (for the first set). Did not work worth a >darn for the first 2/3rds of the tread. > >Let me tell you, $150 per tire was one heck of a lot of money in 1977!!!! > >Dick Rasmussen >CM 85 >85 Van Diemen RF-85 Formula Ford > > The hot tire way back when in our area was the re-cap! Originally only bias ply then some radials. Capped with some soft compound, they worked quite well and best of all only cost around $120 for a SET of 4!!!! Of course it took a bit of searching in the racks for 4 the same height (or at least 2 and 2) and they often had to be trued. Still a great deal and great grip. Rick Brown AP 240Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 05:08:57 1999 From: Oasis3223@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:07:44 EDT Subject: Iowa Region Event Sunday The Iowa Region will sponsor a Test and Tune Event this Sunday, April 25, at Kirkwood College in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Not a points event, but runs will be timed, and plenty of track time will be available. Registration is 10:30, first car off at Noon. for more info call Bob Kistler,,,West Branch Iowa's fastest Thunderbird driver... 319-643-5421 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 05:54:22 1999 From: Lloyd.Wilson@Alcan.Com To: Smokerbros@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Folding Autocross Chairs --Boundary_(ID_kmKAA7b3ybEcW6U1DDM35A) I have recently found that Sam's Club has the folding chairs with backs and even arm rests already attached - no assembly required. Here in Chicago area they are selling for $14 each. The style of chair I am referring too is the one that folds into a nylon "tube" bag. Lloyd Wilson 100K Racing 93 Prelude VTEC VTEC SPD Smokerbros@aol.com on 04/22/99 10:45:51 PM To: autox@autox.team.net @ INTERNET cc: Subject: Folding Autocross Chairs I've noticed some very nice collapsible chairs at autocrosses recently. If possible, I'd like to find the high backed ones with the arms. Anyone know of sources for these? CHD --Boundary_(ID_kmKAA7b3ybEcW6U1DDM35A)-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 05:58:35 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Joshua Hadler" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:06:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Hadler >SIIR 12.6 (Automotive definitions: page 86, '99 rule book) > >A. > An open car is a convertible (with or without a full windshield), a >targa-top-type car with less than a full windshield, or a T-top-type car >with less than a full windshield. > >B. > A closed car is one with a full roof, a targa-top-type car with a full >windshield, or a T-top-type car with a full windshield. > > >How's that? :-) No, I don't sleep with the book, I'm reviewing for a >Safety Steward Seminar I'm conduction this weekend, so I happeded to >come across it. Thanks! (Didn't say it wasn't in the book, just that I couldn't find it....) Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 06:23:25 1999 From: Andy Lester To: "'Team.Net'" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:22:39 -0400 Subject: California AX Schedule? Are there any autocrosses in the Santa Barbara/Santa Maria, CA area? If so, is there a schedule posted somewhere, or can someone tell me about any events in May? Thanks Andy Lester From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:07:09 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:10:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure >>Last weekend we had another Stuck Throttle on a miata, This is a >>fairly comon problem from what I've heard, I agree that it should be >>checked on EVERY car.. >> >====================== >This wasn't the infamous Miata/carpet gas pedal hangup again was it? > >Seems like we TLS members ought to share a little of our precious duct tape >with the Miata owners. ;^) LOL! Actually I had exactly the problem in my first car, an '82 Pontiac 6000. Definitely not autox material, but the problem was just as dangerous. Thanks for the tip! - Justin TSOL #4 At least my black duct tape matches the color of my car... >:) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:07:59 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:16:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Safety Tech Procedure -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Hadler >Uhm, tell me why you need the engine running to check throttle return? I >just see it as an unneccessary risk to have a race car running, no >driver in it, and someone grabbing the throttle cable. Especially when >dealing with a mod car, where there is no such thing as a parking brake. >What about a F500 or A-Mod car that use a CVT? I sure wouldn't want the >engine revving without a driver behind the wheel... LOOK OUT! . >DOH... :-P You're right -- having the car running without a driver isn't too sharp and idea. Local (metro D.C. in this case) procedure is to have the driver blip the throttle from inside the car -- I've run in other places with similar procedures. This tests the entire throttle linkage, not just the top -- considering I own a car (not the Prelude) recalled for possible kinks in the throttle cable, this seems to be a good idea. No hands in the engine. Local supps also require at least the driver's floor mat be removed, which eliminates problems with the pedal hanging up. The couple of times I've done F500s, clearing a space in front of the driver and having him blip the engine did the trick -- the car doesn't move that much. You could do this with the engine off, but IMO, engine on is better -- you get the additional input from hearing the engine spool up and down. For carburetted cars, pumping the throttle with the engine off is a bad idea anyhow -- at best, it floods the engine, at worst, it risks a carburetor fire on start up. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:26:07 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:19:46 EDT Subject: Re: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility In a message dated 4/22/99 8:14:35 PM Central Daylight Time, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: << I think it was the '89 Nationals in Salina when BFG first introduced the 226 series tires. They were clearly different tires from the ones that had been supplied by BFG all year ... specially made for Salina. The powers that be (not you I understand) at the time let those tires run. That was pure politics. Were you running a G stock SVO back then on Generals? >> I don't have my 1989 rule book handy, so excuse me here. However, what were the rules for stock and street prepared tires in 1989? Those rules were DIFFERENT FROM the rules we operate under today. If the tires weren't 'legal' by the 1989 rule book's definition, and people had major heartburn over it, where were the protests? There weren't any! So the people you allude to that allowed these tires to run was you, me, and every other member there in attendance. You call that politics? Call it whatever you want. It's just as much your fault as mine or anyone else's for not protesting these tires if they didn't meet the letter of the rules in effect at that time. As for the SVO and the Generals? Proves my earlier point. Neither were the popular choice 'du jour' back then, were they? I knew what BFG had available and (with the idea coming from John Ames) went a different route because I didn't like the performance of their tires on my 5.0. The market worked. Bruce (we are a member driven club, believe it or not) Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:28:37 1999 From: Patrick507@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:27:23 EDT Subject: (no subject) I have had trouble in the philly region with inspectors that feel they are destructively testing the car. Last year one inspector would grab the tire and shake the whole car then tell me I needed wheel bearings. He did this every week, even the week I installed new bearing due to other work and had set the endplay with a dial indicator. Last week, another jerked on my battery until he bent the factory sheet metal battery box. Then told me my battery was loose. I had to do emergency "Hammer" work to Get it back in shape. Should send these folks repair bills! Pat From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:37:41 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 99 09:35:02 -0500 Subject: Re:Killer tech inspectors Author: wrote: >I have had trouble in the philly region with inspectors that feel they are >destructively testing the car. >Last week, another jerked on my battery until he bent the factory sheet metal >battery box. Then told me my battery was loose. Geez! Remind me not to run the Yugo in Philly! They'd probably fail me after flipping the car on it's roof, to see whether or not it would be safe in a rollover! "Is a Yugo *really* a closed car?" That seems a bit excessive to me. All the tech inspectors I've encountered have been really nice...... Scott Phelps Team SOL #1 88 Yugo GVX EP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:45:01 1999 From: John Whitling To: Paul and Meredith Brown Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:46:36 -0400 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n Poorly enforced! Any other sanctioning body would have enforced the intent of the rule. SCCA officials had every right, according to the rules, to enforce the rules. The tires were clearly different to everyone. It was an SCCA event and BFG made a concerted effort to circumvent the rules ... not to just a few "contract" drivers (as had been the case in the past, but that's another issue) but to everyone that had pre bought BFG tires for that event. Another thing ... do you really think that BFG would have produced hundreds of thousands of dollars of tires for that event without some "quiet approval" by at least one SCCA official???? I wonder .... John Whitling Paul and Meredith Brown wrote: > At 09:17 PM 4/22/99 -0400, John Whitling wrote: > >Right off the top of my head here's one example .... > >I think it was the '89 Nationals in Salina when BFG first introduced the 226 > >series tires. They were clearly different tires from the ones that had been > >supplied by BFG all year ... specially made for Salina. The powers that be > (not > >you I understand) at the time let those tires run. That was pure politics. > Were > >you running a G stock SVO back then on Generals? In any case I'm sure you > >remember the year and circumstances that I'm referring to. > > I think if you look back, the tire rules were changed after that, since I > believe that they met the letter (though clearly not the spirit) of the > April 30 rule as it was then written. The kept the model name the same. > Poorly written rule, not politics.... > > Paul and Meredith Brown > > MR2: "Not the easiest car in the world to work on" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:47:13 1999 From: "Steve Ostrovitz" To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:26:51 -0400 Subject: Trailer Anti-Sway units? Towed the new CP car home last night and encountered trailer sway like never before. Thank God for electric brakes. Anyone have any experiences with anti-sway units like I've seen in J.C. Whitney? thanks, Steve Ostrovitz From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:48:38 1999 From: John Whitling To: Smokerbros@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:50:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Folding Autocross Chairs I got mine at Sam's though I think there are tricker ones at camping outlets. I think mine cost something like $15. Well worth it. Smokerbros@aol.com wrote: > I've noticed some very nice collapsible chairs at autocrosses recently. If > possible, I'd like to find the high backed ones with the arms. Anyone know > of sources for these? > > CHD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 07:51:59 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: Smokerbros@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:56:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Folding Autocross Chairs Lloyd.Wilson@Alcan.Com wrote: > > I have recently found that Sam's Club has the folding chairs with backs and > even arm rests already attached - no assembly required. Here in Chicago area > they are selling for $14 each. > > The style of chair I am referring too is the one that folds into a nylon "tube" > bag. > Same available at Costco, previously known as Price Club. Supplies do change often at these stores, and they are not there all of the time - tends to be seasonable, whatever season is necessary for chairs..... :-) Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:08:10 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:03:22 -0500 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility Ok, I know this horse is dead, but let's at least get the history straight: ><< I think it was the '89 Nationals in Salina when BFG first introduced the >226 > series tires. No, the BFG autox tire at the time was the 206, and I don't believe it was intro'ed at Salina. If memory serves, BFG brought tires to Salina that were even softer than 206s =8<0. And the other tire mfrs. did NOT leave the sport in droves as a result. Before the next season, the tire rules were clarified so as to prevent a future occurrence of this type of thing. Once again I have to say that a softer compound is NOT uniformly better as an autox tire. Depends on the car, the course, and the driver. I know several highly competitive SP drivers who run on Hoosier's road race compound, because it WORKS BETTER ON THEIR CARS. When the 224 BFG first came out, it was not available in an autox compound. I had a set of 206s on my ES GTI, and I bought a set of 224s mid-season in 1993. Back-to-back comparisons on the same course at the same event under the same conditions established clearly that the 224 worked better on that car than the 206. Yet its compound was harder, not softer. The ideal compound hardness depends on many factors, and a statement to the effect that "softer is faster" is just not true. I personally like having the choice, but that's just me, I guess. Jay "it ain't broke, stop trying to fix it" Mitchell From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:09:38 1999 From: SpeedPak@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:07:57 EDT Subject: Peru Solo Hey everyone in Autox land Hope everyone's doing good..got a quick question for ya: Anyone Have any good/bad expiriences with hotels in the area of the ProSolo at Peru? Itll be my first time out so any input will help. Faisal Ahmad ITR 98-0062 #62 GS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:19:09 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "washburn" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:16:07 -0500 Subject: RE: Safety Tech Procedure > You can I suppose. After this weekend, however, I would recommend > checking it by actually depressing the throttle pedal all the way down . . . > An older Z car went wild on course Saturday after completing > a practice excercise at . . . > near the car a white faced novice got out and said the throttle stuck. . . . > Turns out his carpets were not > fully fastened or glued down, and the pedal was hanging up on it. Check > those loose carpets techies. If the Z car was silver, I am the culprit. I remember teching it on Saturday. We were checking carpet but apparently missed that one. In this case, depressing the throttle fully in the car may or may not have been useful. The carpet may have shifted while the person was pushing pedals while on course. All that would have been moot if we had caught the loose carpeting. PLEASE -- EVERYONE -- do not be shy about telling the appropriate people (politely of course) if you see something that could be improved in procedures or that slips by accidentally. If you have good people in your positions of responsibility, they will appreciate the assistance. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:34:23 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Andy Lester Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:28:40 -0700 Subject: Re: California AX Schedule? Andy, Try Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo. Call Bill Rosensteel (805) 773-0331, e-mail: BillnJoanR@aol.com website cpscc.org According to the schedule in North American Pylon, there should be two events coming, May 2 and May 30. --Pat Kelly Andy Lester wrote: > Are there any autocrosses in the Santa Barbara/Santa Maria, CA area? If so, is there a schedule posted somewhere, or can someone tell me about any events in May? > Thanks > Andy Lester From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:38:24 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:36:45 EDT Subject: meditation In a message dated 4/23/99 9:49:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: << ...do you really think that BFG would have produced hundreds of thousands of dollars of tires for that event without some "quiet approval" by at least one SCCA official???? I wonder .... John Whitling >> This question could lead to some interesting exchanges. I confess, I enjoy the little battles that break out about tires. That's about as far as it goes though. Just some net fun. The people who are in a position to change rules don't wish to do so. They sense no groundswell of demand for change from the peasants. There is none. Not yet anyway. No one knows how that might change as time goes by. So whether durometers are consistent or not, whether a z rating means anything or whether treadwear ratings mean something or mean nothing doesn't matter. Not now. If the time were ripe for a tire rule change the specific way it would be defined and enforced would follow. You could gather a bunch of tire engineers together now and pick their brains as to what works and doesn't work and from that write a coherent rule--but you'd be wasting your time. It wouldn't go anywhere. My rather extensive experience has been that, with tires, soft = fast = short-lived = more expensive and hard = slow = longer-lived = cheaper. Experience may vary. If you are driving a light, good handling sports car and you are one of those Fangio-like driving geniuses maybe you can get long life from soft tires and still go pretty fast. However, there are a much greater number of autocrossers who drive cars that aren't quite so beautifully engineered and our driving style isn't quite up to the genius standard. Autocross was at one time a place for the amateur to enjoy some relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with whatever car he happened to have. Now the rules seem aimed more toward those who purchase cars with autocrossing first in mind, no place for the guy who admits he is an amateur and a tightwad. That doesn't bother me all that much. I've done a lot of autocrossing for a long time. If it has gotten more expensive and complicated than suits me I can find other things to do on Sunday. Someone say something. I need typing practice. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:50:13 1999 From: richj50@bit-net.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: slicks vs. DOT tires Would slicks work on a heavy (3500 lb) ESP car? Since most CP cars are much lighter than that and run insanely wide (12") wheels, I wonder whether ESP cars with 9-10" wheels _could_ run slicks without really cutting up/overheating them. Has anyone ever seen a heavy car respond well to slicks? All of the underprepared CP cars out there (ESP cars with SFCs for example) that I've seen are on DOT tires. Rich Johnston 95 Z28 ESP NER From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:51:06 1999 From: Michael Knapp To: "'RacerRay52@aol.com'" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:46:09 -0700 Subject: RE: meditation A man after my own heart! I'm the first to admit thats it is frustrating to compete against cars that have soft, sticky tires, while I stay with my "normal" street tires. I still mainly spend my autocross time for fun, and like you, when the fun stops, I'll go do something else, back to flying (no there is an inexpensive hobby!), or force my wife to go somewhere where the water is warm, the sand is soft, and do some diving. Mike Knapp -----Original Message----- From: RacerRay52@aol.com [SMTP:RacerRay52@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 07:37 To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: meditation In a message dated 4/23/99 9:49:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: << ...do you really think that BFG would have produced hundreds of thousands of dollars of tires for that event without some "quiet approval" by at least one SCCA official???? I wonder .... John Whitling >> This question could lead to some interesting exchanges. I confess, I enjoy the little battles that break out about tires. That's about as far as it goes though. Just some net fun. The people who are in a position to change rules don't wish to do so. They sense no groundswell of demand for change from the peasants. There is none. Not yet anyway. No one knows how that might change as time goes by. So whether durometers are consistent or not, whether a z rating means anything or whether treadwear ratings mean something or mean nothing doesn't matter. Not now. If the time were ripe for a tire rule change the specific way it would be defined and enforced would follow. You could gather a bunch of tire engineers together now and pick their brains as to what works and doesn't work and from that write a coherent rule--but you'd be wasting your time. It wouldn't go anywhere. My rather extensive experience has been that, with tires, soft = fast = short-lived = more expensive and hard = slow = longer-lived = cheaper. Experience may vary. If you are driving a light, good handling sports car and you are one of those Fangio-like driving geniuses maybe you can get long life from soft tires and still go pretty fast. However, there are a much greater number of autocrossers who drive cars that aren't quite so beautifully engineered and our driving style isn't quite up to the genius standard. Autocross was at one time a place for the amateur to enjoy some relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with whatever car he happened to have. Now the rules seem aimed more toward those who purchase cars with autocrossing first in mind, no place for the guy who admits he is an amateur and a tightwad. That doesn't bother me all that much. I've done a lot of autocrossing for a long time. If it has gotten more expensive and complicated than suits me I can find other things to do on Sunday. Someone say something. I need typing practice. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:54:17 1999 From: WHEELSPNR@aol.com To: aabourey@inlink.com (Authur A. Bourey), jgamble@scwh.com (James Gamble), Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:49:26 EDT Subject: Fwd: FW: virus --part1_223a2742.2451e276_boundary can't be too careful !!! ' JC --part1_223a2742.2451e276_boundary Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za03.mx.aol.com (rly-za03.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.99]) by air-za05.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:15:44 -0400 Received: from InterJet.fox-arch.com (fox-arch.com [208.19.226.1]) by rly-za03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA03529; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by InterJet.fox-arch.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA05037; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:13:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(192.168.1.244), claiming to be "cad-15" via SMTP by InterJet.fox-arch.com, id smtpdEB5034; Fri Apr 23 14:13:27 1999 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:11:37 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE8D60.E8859D00.bsechrist@fox-arch.com> From: Bryan Sechrist To: "Lois Sechrist (E-mail)" Cc: "Emile Desroches (E-mail)" , "Gerry Hock (E-mail)" , "Jerry Crump (E-mail)" , "Jim Obermeyer (E-mail)" , "John Donjoian (E-mail)" , "Joh"@fox-arch.com Cc: "Jon Herrin (E-mail)" , "Kelly Smith (E-mail)" , "Mark Gettemeyer (E-mail)" , "Matt Grainger (E-mail)" , "Paul Nittel (E-mail)" Subject: FW: virus Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:11:35 -0500 Return-Receipt-To: Bryan Sechrist Organization: Fox Architects X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: bsechrist@fox-arch.com Its a dangerous world. This information was given to me by a coworker. Thought I'd pass it on. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Kerwin Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 7:50 AM To: Admin; Administrator; Bob Dunn; Bryan Feld; Bryan Sechrist; Chris Deguentz; Christina Palazo; Default; Fox Contacts; Frank Rosario; Janet Paley; Jessica Lang; Jim Gordon; Joe Burzinski; John Berendzen; John Dudek; Kathy Bear; Kevin Kerwin; Kevin Stross; Lauren Fox; Mike Fox; NET; Sean King; Sean Sullivan; Tim Gebauer; Timothy Hillhouse Subject: virus >>> Someone is sending out a very desirable screen >>>>> >> saver, the Budweiser Frogs >>>>> >> BUDDYLST.ZIP. If you download it, you will lose >>>>> >> everything on your hard >>>>> >> drive, it will crash, and someone from the Internet >>>>> >> will get your name and >>>>> >> password! DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS UNDER ANY >>>>> >> CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!! IT JUST >>>>> >> WENT >>>>> >> INTO CIRCULATION YESTERDAY. >>>>> >> This is a new very malicious virus and not many >>>>> >> people know about it. >>>>> >> This >>>>> >> information was announced yesterday morning from >>>>> >> MICROSOFT. Please share >>>>> >> it >>>>> >> with everyone that might access the Internet. >>>>> >> Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your >>>>> >> address book so that this >>>>> >> may be stopped. >>>>> >> Also do not open or even look at any mail that says >>>>> >> RETURNED OR UNABLE TO >>>>> >> DELIVER . >>>>> >> This virus will attach itself to your computer >>>>> >> components and render them >>>>> >> useless. Immediately delete mail items that say >>>>> >> this. America Online >>>>> >> (AOL) >>>>> >> has said that this is a very dangerous virus and >>>>> >> that there is NO remedy >>>>> >> for it at this time. --part1_223a2742.2451e276_boundary-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 08:55:29 1999 From: Steve Couture To: Smokerbros@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Folding Autocross Chairs << I've noticed some very nice collapsible chairs at autocrosses recently. If possible, I'd like to find the high backed ones with the arms. Anyone know of sources for these? CHD >> I got mine at Target for about $25-30 each. -- Steve Couture (rhymes with future!) Detroit Region SCCA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:01:40 1999 From: adozzell@sc9.intel.com (TONY OZZELLO P802 AWS) To: richj50@bit-net.com, AUTOX@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:59:19 -0700 Subject: Re: slicks vs. DOT tires >Would slicks work on a heavy (3500 lb) ESP car? Since most CP cars are >much lighter than that and run insanely wide (12") wheels, I wonder >whether ESP cars with 9-10" wheels _could_ run slicks without really >cutting up/overheating them. > >Has anyone ever seen a heavy car respond well to slicks? All of the >underprepared CP cars out there (ESP cars with SFCs for example) that I've >seen are on DOT tires. Rich, Seth Emerson is running a V6 Camaro in CP this year and I believe I've seen slicks on that car. Tony From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:16:12 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:11:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >>SIIR 12.6 (Automotive definitions: page 86, '99 rule book) A. An open car is a convertible (with or without a full windshield), a targa-top-type car with less than a full windshield, or a T-top-type car with less than a full windshield. B. A closed car is one with a full roof, a targa-top-type car with a full windshield, or a T-top-type car with a full windshield.<< Thanks, Josh, for shedding some light on the subject. Now on to interpretation. :-) According to my interpretation, with the hardtop bolted in place my TR-6 fits "B" above. Obviously, some agree, since I and others have been allowed to compete that way (though I've never tried it in SCCA). I'm assuming from the conversation so far that there are some with other opinions. Now that we have the facts, is there anyone who cares to dispute that my hardtopped TR-6 (or any other hardtopped roadster) does NOT fit firmly into "B"? What is really lacking now is a clear definition of "convertible". My hardtopped TR-6 has a "full roof". Is it still a "convertible"? If so does it fit into both (or either) group? Any hardboiled tech inspectors out there that want to take a stab at it? Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:17:52 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: meditation Howdy, On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > Autocross was at one time a place for the amateur > to enjoy some relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with > whatever car he happened to have. Now the rules seem aimed more toward those > who purchase cars with autocrossing first in mind, no place for the guy who > admits he is an amateur and a tightwad. Ah horsepuckey. You could say "no place for the guy who admits he is an amateur and a tightwad to trophy" maybe (and only maybe. There are plenty of regional events where you can drive less than perfect and not have the 'right' car and still win your class). If you want to have fun and not mortgage your life to smoosh cones, then do that. You'll have just as much, and probably more, fun as the folks that concentrate on picking the 'right' car, put new tires on it for every event, etc. But don't expect to beat those folks if you're equivilently skilled. That's just the nature of competition and you can't make it go away, at least not completely, with rules. I think most of the angst is from _competitive_ tightwads. If you're one of those (and I definately am) then you pick your class and car to minimize your expense without sacrificing competitiveness and spend the money it takes to be competitive in that class. DS and BS are great for that. So are the roadrace machinery mod classes like CM and FM. My newbie HO, Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:23:36 1999 From: "Jay Mitchell" To: , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:17:05 -0500 Subject: Re: meditation Ray writes: >The people who >are in a position to change rules don't wish to do so. They sense no >groundswell of demand for change from the peasants. There is none. Not yet >anyway. No one knows how that might change as time goes by. It's worth considering just how much time HAS gone by and also how much BETTER things are w/r/t autox tires and classes than they were in the 70s. How many folks have to recount their experiences in that earlier era before people will realize how much things have improved? Consider that, if your car didn't fit in Stock, it went to Prepared. Been there, done that. The best available STREET tires for autox use cost far more during the '70s in inflation-adjusted dollars than do present street tires. Currently available autox tires are even cheaper. And they work a lot better, making the sport more fun. IMHO, of course. > So whether durometers are consistent or not, whether a z rating means >anything or whether treadwear ratings mean something or mean nothing doesn't >matter. Sure it does. > If the time were ripe for a tire rule change the specific way it would >be defined and enforced would follow. No. Enforceability MUST be considered a priori, particularly when the change being contemplated is highly restrictive. > You could gather a bunch of tire engineers together now and pick their >brains as to what works and doesn't work and from that write a coherent >rule-- I claim that, if you REALLY talked to a "bunch of tire engineers," and they were honest, you'd come away with the realization that they could make a ringer tire with any speed rating, tread wear rating, or durometer reading, AT ANY TIME. It's been done before, and it could be done again. >but you'd be wasting your time. But not for the reasons you assume. > My rather extensive experience has been that, with tires, soft = fast = >short-lived = more expensive and hard = slow = longer-lived = cheaper. You apparently haven't encountered tires that are too soft and "go off" as a result. I have. Soft DOES NOT always equal fast, and hard DOES NOT always equal longer-lived. I've seen relatively hard street tires go away very quickly in autox use, and I've seen much softer autox tires last a lot longer. >Autocross was at one time a place for the amateur >to enjoy some relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with >whatever car he happened to have. Still is. > Now the rules seem aimed more toward those >who purchase cars with autocrossing first in mind, Be specific. The rules haven't changed very much over the last ten years or so. In Stock, the rules are more restrictive - no port matching, no balancing, no replacement steering wheels - than they were just a few years ago. I claim you're simply not considering the REAL trends in the rules. > no place for the guy who >admits he is an amateur and a tightwad. Sure there is. Bring your car, enter the event, and have fun. If it's not fun for you, that's not the fault of the rules. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:24:51 1999 From: "Steven N. Burkett" To: , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:23:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Autocross Shifting Technique [Was: Integra autoXing] On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Chris McCann wrote: [Technique questions for beginning autocrossers] > ...and myself (and a much more seasoned driver with a '98 GS-R) were > reccomended by many just to leave it in 2nd ... I have the same question, but WRT a '93 RX-7, or "peppy" cars in general. I attended my first event two weeks ago. The first two runs, it didn't even occur to me to shift, i.e. once I got into second, I stayed there. The third run, I attempted to downshift on my way into faster parts of the course. I felt it slowed me down massively, and wonder what "proper" technique is. Obviously, my brain and hands are quite slow, being so new to the sport. I know I can drive faster (now) by staying in second, but would rather start learning the right technique from the start. Any advice? Thanks! Steven p.s. I have heard rumors that someone has RX-7 specific autocross driving tips on a website somewhere. Anyone know where? p.p.s. Please note that this is cross posted to the RX-7 and autocross mailing lists. You may wish to trim follow-ups as appropriate. Sorry to those who will see it twice! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:27:01 1999 From: "Chan, Albert (GEP)" To: "'team.net'" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:23:37 -0400 Subject: FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility A few recollections from another observer, who has no particular feelings one way or another: * The BFG with assymetric carcass (was that the 226?) was "introduced" silently at the 1990 Nationals (not the 1989 Nationals as John Whitling remembers). * The public acknowledgement by BFG about the 226 (?) was in the April (?) 1991 Team T/A newsletter, where the cover article was how the assymetric construction R-1 was "successfully introduced" at Salina and Road America in the fall of 1990. That was interesting to me, in light of the next two bullet points. * If I recall (and I do have the older rule books in my basement, but I'm not home right now, go ahead and call me anal), the April 30th rule was in effect in 1990. * As far as the comment below about protests, Pete Larson did write a protest at the 1990 Nationals. It was thrown out. * Of course, the tire wars at Nationals was started by Goodyear, in the large Corvette sized tires at the 1987 Nationals. Limited quantity for certain drivers. At least that's what's been told to me, by yet another co-driver who was a Goodyear supported driver for a few years in the late '80s and early '90s. Anyone care to share their other recollections? Al Chan (Had the latest R1s on his F-Stock Firebird at the 1990 Nationals - shared the car with a BFG contract driver who insisted that I should have the "latest" rubber) > ---------- > From: MBD96@aol.com[SMTP:MBD96@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 9:19 AM > To: alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net > Cc: racers@rt66.com; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility > > In a message dated 4/22/99 8:14:35 PM Central Daylight Time, > alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: > > << I think it was the '89 Nationals in Salina when BFG first introduced the > 226 > series tires. They were clearly different tires from the ones that had been > supplied by BFG all year ... specially made for Salina. The powers that be > (not > you I understand) at the time let those tires run. That was pure politics. > Were > you running a G stock SVO back then on Generals? >> > > I don't have my 1989 rule book handy, so excuse me here. However, what were > > the rules for stock and street prepared tires in 1989? Those rules were > DIFFERENT FROM the rules we operate under today. > > If the tires weren't 'legal' by the 1989 rule book's definition, and people > had major heartburn over it, where were the protests? There weren't any! > So > the people you allude to that allowed these tires to run was you, me, and > every other member there in attendance. You call that politics? Call it > whatever you want. It's just as much your fault as mine or anyone else's > for > not protesting these tires if they didn't meet the letter of the rules in > effect at that time. > > As for the SVO and the Generals? Proves my earlier point. Neither were the > > popular choice 'du jour' back then, were they? I knew what BFG had > available > and (with the idea coming from John Ames) went a different route because I > didn't like the performance of their tires on my 5.0. The market worked. > > Bruce (we are a member driven club, believe it or not) Dickey > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:32:17 1999 From: Randy Chase To: autocross Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:34:16 -0700 Subject: Tire choices (NOT street vs R tires) Hi. Easy question with maybe not so easy answers. MR2. Concrete@Atwater/Wendover. Hoosiers or G-Force? Why/Why not? Or should I just run on my Toyos again (the good news is that the Toyos will still have plenty of tread)? I learned that the Toyos do not do as well on slippery surfaces at San Bernardino, but concrete? I have never used them on concrete before. Thoughts? Thanks. Randy Chase '91 MR2 CS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 09:51:19 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:49:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: virus Let's stop right now with the virus paranoia!!!! I have about 18 copies of this exact message, with different names, dating back over five years. A quick 30-second trip to microsoft.com for a search would have shown you 0 hits on buddylst.zip. Anything that was announced yesterday should be dated, don't you think? Someone on the Internet will get my name and password? Puh-LEEEEASE! And no mail message can carry a virus. Any virus transmitted by mail is in an attachment, and can only be activated by running the attachment. Reading a message CANNOT ACTIVATE A VIRUS!!! I know whereof I speak on this, I've been in PCs since an XT cost $5000 for an 8086 @ 4.77 MHz, a 10MB 90-ms drive, and 256K RAM, monochrome, and would run Netware. If you get a message with all this paranoid crap, but no real references, trash it and go to Symantec's site or somwhere and look it up. It isn't hard to verify this crap before you spam all these lists and waste people's time. Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT WHEELSPNR@aol.com wrote: > > >>> Someone is sending out a very desirable screen > > >>>>> >> saver, the Budweiser Frogs > > >>>>> >> BUDDYLST.ZIP. If you download it, you will lose > > >>>>> >> everything on your hard > > >>>>> >> drive, it will crash, and someone from the Internet > >snip snip snip From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 10:13:40 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:12:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Peru Solo I was happy with the Motel 6, as usual. Bruce Wentzel Green Dot Racing, Inc. Road Race & Solo II rentals BSP 71 Corvette LS6 - the original Greendot; RX-7's; 79 ITA, 84 ITS, 86 ITS One person brake bleeding with Speed Bleeders, racer price $5.20 ea. Ask me about your opportunity to be a part of the fastest growing company in the fastest growing industry in the world!! -----Original Message----- From: SpeedPak@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:07 AM Subject: Peru Solo >Hey everyone in Autox land Hope everyone's doing good..got a quick question >for ya: > >Anyone Have any good/bad expiriences with hotels in the area of the ProSolo >at Peru? Itll be my first time out so any input will help. > >Faisal Ahmad >ITR 98-0062 >#62 GS > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 10:34:53 1999 From: Chris Sims To: autox mail list Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again > The hot tire way back when in our area was the re-cap! Originally only bias Does anybody make performance retreads now? It seems like a good idea. . . Chris ********************************************************************** * * * Chris Sims * * http://www.simshome.com * * * ********************************************************************** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 10:37:09 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 99 12:34:25 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Tire History Lesson - Again Author: Chris Sims wrote: >Does anybody make performance retreads now? It seems like a good >idea. . . Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the truck tires on the highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't put recaps on any car. Scott Phelps Team SOL #1 88 Yugo GVX EP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 10:46:21 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Chris Sims'" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:40:58 -0500 Subject: RE: Tire History Lesson - Again >>Does anybody make performance retreads now? << Check out http://hometown.aol.com/alloywheel/index.html I have not interest financial or otherwise, and I have not tried (nor do I intend to) the product in question. Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 10:50:32 1999 From: Craig Blome To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com, autox@autox.team.net, csims@simshome.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tire History Lesson - Again --- scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > Author: Chris Sims wrote: > > >Does anybody make performance retreads now? It > seems like a good > >idea. . . > > Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the > truck tires on the > highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't > put recaps on any car. > I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why SCCA doesn't allow 'em. Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 10:58:37 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:57:35 CDT Subject: Re: Peru Solo Faisal Ahmad wrote: > Anyone Have any good/bad expiriences with hotels in the area of the ProSolo > at Peru? Itll be my first time out so any input will help. Last year at the Divisional I stayed at the Econo Lodge in Kokomo. It was cheap and comfortable, but not aesthetically wonderful. The place is a little old and the pool was drained, but for its age it was fine. The Motel 6 looked nicer (and newer) from the outside, at about the same price. -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:04:32 1999 From: "I.Mannix" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:03:25 -0600 Subject: Tom Ellam? Sorry to bother the list, but does anyone know Tom E's email address? Thanks! I.Mannix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:06:41 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: Smokerbros@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:07:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Folding Autocross Chairs Smokerbros@aol.com wrote: > I've noticed some very nice collapsible chairs at autocrosses > recently. If possible, I'd like to find the high backed ones with > the arms. Anyone know of sources for these? Note -- if you look around, you can find these chairs with an aluminum frame instead of steel. Lighter, rustproof, but about double the price. I have steel-framed versions. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:21:03 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:21:26 -0400 Subject: Re: meditation RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > I confess, I enjoy the little battles that break out about tires. > That's about as far as it goes though. Just some net fun. Ray, I'm glad you're enjoying yourself. I just wish you'd also make some effort to hear what people are saying. > The people who are in a position to change rules don't wish to do so. Those people are YOU. It's not "them", it's "us". Speak in the first person. It's our club. > They sense no groundswell of demand for change from the peasants. > There is none. That's apparently because the "peasants" (that's us) are not sending letters with reasonable, workable proposals. Those who are saying things are, for the most part, saying things on Team.Net rather than sending letters, and they are simply complaining rather than offering truly workable alternative rules. > So whether durometers are consistent or not, whether a z rating means > anything or whether treadwear ratings mean something or mean nothing > doesn't matter. Not now. Of course it does. > If the time were ripe for a tire rule change the specific way it would > be defined and enforced would follow. When you say "it would be defined", you should say, "we would define it". > You could gather a bunch of tire engineers together now and pick their > brains as to what works and doesn't work and from that write a > coherent rule--but you'd be wasting your time. Not "you". "we". > Autocross was at one time a place for the amateur to enjoy some > relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with > whatever car he happened to have. Now the rules seem aimed more toward > those who purchase cars with autocrossing first in mind, no place for > the guy who admits he is an amateur and a tightwad. The rules are written with the national competitor in mind because they have to be -- those are the folks who take the rules seriously. Those who are not so serious can play a little faster and looser, and regions are *encouraged* to overlook small infractions. When was the last time you saw a protest at a regional event? Regional autocrossing is still a place for the amateur to enjoy some relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with whatever car he happened to have. IMHO, of course. > Someone say something. I need typing practice. I'd suggest starting by rewriting your post in the first person, and then see if you still completely agree with it. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:27:11 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Mark Sirota Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:21:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Folding Autocross Chairs Yeah after you find them go to Hobby Lobby and get Iron on numbers. So you can put your cars numbers on the backs. It really looks cool. Mike B. Mark Sirota wrote: > Smokerbros@aol.com wrote: > > I've noticed some very nice collapsible chairs at autocrosses > > recently. If possible, I'd like to find the high backed ones with > > the arms. Anyone know of sources for these? > > Note -- if you look around, you can find these chairs with an aluminum > frame instead of steel. Lighter, rustproof, but about double the price. > I have steel-framed versions. > > Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:33:43 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com, autox@autox.team.net, Patrick507@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:32:37 PDT Subject: Re:Killer tech inspectors Scott, and all. the two tech inspectors this weekend in philly are both friends of mine, and really nice people, one is my parts guy the other is a certified BMW mechanic.(one of the few people I trust to work on my own car) No offense, but I think if the metal was weak enough to be bent by shaking the battery, then it was not safe to hold a 20+lb battery on a 1g cornering maneuver.. I really doubt either of them were attempting to damage your car. and If they did, I'll buy you a new battery hold down tray.. IMHO Jeff Lloyd Red '96 Z3 1.9 >>I have had trouble in the philly region with inspectors that feel they are >>destructively testing the car. > >>Last week, another jerked on my battery until he bent the factory sheet metal >>battery box. Then told me my battery was loose. > > Geez! Remind me not to run the Yugo in Philly! They'd probably fail me > after flipping the car on it's roof, to see whether or not it would be > safe in a rollover! "Is a Yugo *really* a closed car?" That seems a > bit excessive to me. All the tech inspectors I've encountered have been > really nice...... > > > Scott Phelps > Team SOL #1 > 88 Yugo GVX EP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:38:24 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:32:55 -0500 Subject: National Tour points Why is there no National Tour points ranking? I think someone touched on this awhile back. I think it would be a great idea. Don't worry Mark, I'm gonna write a letter! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:40:35 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Craig Blome Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:34:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again I used retreads for years, both on my AH3000 and my Lotus 7. Never had a problem. I think it depends on the quality of the retreader company. In our neck of the woods, we had two: McCoy Bite Rites located in Modesto, CA (I think that was how it was spelled), and Bruce's Tires in Oakland, CA. The McCoys were a little "stickier" but both had to be trued to be made round. Much like the shaving of present day requirements. Both companies did a great job. And it kept the price reasonable. In the mid-60s, or thereabouts, first Firestone, then Goodyear, came out with racing slicks that were definitely better...and the usual scenario happened. Cost increase to go faster. --Pat Kelly Craig Blome wrote: > --- scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > > Author: Chris Sims wrote: > > > > >Does anybody make performance retreads now? It > > seems like a good > > >idea. . . > > > > Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the > > truck tires on the > > highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't > > put recaps on any car. > > > > I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock > once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and > KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the > heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why > SCCA doesn't allow 'em. > > Craig Blome > Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 11:55:54 1999 From: Phil Esra To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: re: tire history lesson again Dick Rasmussen said: >The best tire thing that ever happened to stock and street prepared >autocrossing was tire manufacturers providing competition tires at >discounted prices!!!! I've been wondering about prices--about why R tires are so cheap compared to their high-end street tire brethren. Is it because the manufacturers cut their profits to sell tires, to win events, to get that halo effect on their entire line of tires? Or do they jack up the prices on high-end tires because they know the suckers will pay, a la SUVs? Or are the technology and associated development/manufacturing costs really that different? Case in point, from tirerack.com: 275/40-17 race tire g-Force R1: $175 street tire g-Force KD: $276 What gives? Phil Esra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 12:01:49 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:01:49 -0600 Subject: Fw: meditation >In a message dated 4/23/99 9:49:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: > ><< ...do you really think that BFG would have produced hundreds of > thousands of dollars of tires for that event without some "quiet approval" >by at least one SCCA official???? I wonder .... > > John Whitling >> > > This question could lead to some interesting exchanges. > My rather extensive experience has been that, with tires, soft = fast > = short-lived = more expensive and hard = slow = longer-lived = cheaper. > Experience may vary. If you are driving a light, good handling sports >car and you are one of those Fangio-like driving geniuses maybe you can get >long life from soft tires and still go pretty fast. > However, there are a much greater number of autocrossers who drive > cars that aren't quite so beautifully engineered and our driving style isn't > quite up to the genius standard. Autocross was at one time a place for the > amateur to enjoy some relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with > whatever car he happened to have. Now the rules seem aimed more toward > those who purchase cars with autocrossing first in mind, no place for the guy who > admits he is an amateur and a tightwad. > That doesn't bother me all that much. I've done a lot of autocrossing > for a long time. If it has gotten more expensive and complicated than suits > me I can find other things to do on Sunday. > Someone say something. I need typing practice. > >Ray Ya know...? If you replace the word autocross with the ancient SCCA term of "Auto Exhibition" which was supplanted by Automobile Race and so on and so forth, this could well be the same conversation that may have occurred in the formative years of the SCCA!!! I remember when a member of the Wichita SCCA drove his 'Vette to Sebring 12 hour with his race tires tied onto the back, entered the race, placed eleventh overall, put the street tires back on and drove home!! I think it was in '69. Don't do that these days either, do we? He was/is a school bus mechanic that ran an early big block 'vette back then! I remember arguments about amateurism versus professionalism, and how SCCA could not allow Pro's! Now, there is very little but pro's, judging by the cost factors involved. I personally miss the Can Am and Trans Am series of the sixties, even though they became a real pain to work, due to the level of and attitude of professionals. Stand back and enjoy the FUN of autocrossing and don't give a fig about winning and all the falderall about this and that. Even Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing has succumbed to the "raising of the bar" syndrome. The 1967 or older former SCCA "racers" are no more like they were in 1967 then I am! Except ,they are MUCH better, now, I'm not. ;>( From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 12:19:52 1999 From: "Darren P. Madams" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:14:37 -0700 Subject: National folk: Kart rental will be at Atwater Pro For those of you nationally interested in flying in for the Atwater Pro, Pat Polk from Quicksilver Racing will be there providing his usual Arrive & Drive kart rental program. I'll even buy you a beer if you come all the way out here. There's a class of 4 drivers locally and I think we've got 4 or 5 renters already lined up, so there should be a decently sized class! Seattle guys, are you coming down??? Alan, how bout you? Please email me for details or fill out the entry form off the web. --Darren Madams '98 CRG Kawisaki #118 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 12:20:35 1999 From: richj50@bit-net.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ES: 94+ Celica ST vs. GT Which would make a better ES car? Lighter but less powerful with smaller wheels, or more powerful with wider wheels but 200+ lbs heavier and less well balanced? Are the national standings for HS and ES for 97 & 98 misleading because of differences in driver talent, or will these cars be equally competitive in ES? Or is the ST actually faster than the GT as the 97/98 standings suggest? Thanks, Rich Johnston NER SCCA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 12:40:04 1999 From: "Boris Elpiner" To: "Team.net" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:39:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Peru Solo >Faisal Ahmad wrote: > > Anyone Have any good/bad expiriences with hotels in the area of the ProSolo > at Peru? Itll be my first time out so any input will help. On a business trip, about a year ago, I've stayed in Courtyard by Marriott in Kokomo. It's a nice hotel, like most Courtyard's. The rate is very reasonable $58/night. Boris Elpiner (Will be making a guest appearance in AS in Peru. Anybody else from the West is going?) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 12:40:30 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:37:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again The truck treads you see laying around are not retread separations. Look carefully and you'll see belts, ply materials, etc. which are not part of a retread. What you see is real tire destruction, i.e. belt separation. Maybe one tire was running at half pressure or something. OTOH, that's not to say that a tire may be 184 years old, recapped 48 times or something. . . . . Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT Craig Blome wrote: > > I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock > once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and > KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the > heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why > SCCA doesn't allow 'em. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 12:56:27 1999 From: "Craig M. Daugherty" To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:49:21 -0500 Subject: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? All this talk about slicks vs. DOT tires caused me to wonder why the Prepared classes have restrictions on the wheel sizes when Street Prepared doesn't? Craig Daugherty Tyler, Texas 1990 Nissan 300ZX non-turbo, FS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 12:56:39 1999 From: "Craig M. Daugherty" To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:49:55 -0500 Subject: Any '90+ 300ZX drivers out there? The new proposal to move the Nissan 300ZX non-turbo from ASP to the new FSP has me itching to spend money on my car. I was wondering if there are any other Z32 drivers out there who could share their experiences with modifications, setup, etc.? Craig Daugherty Tyler, Texas '90 Nissan 300ZX, non-turbo, FS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:10:41 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Tom Gentry" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:18:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gentry To: 'autox@autox.team.net' ; 'Joshua Hadler' Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:00 AM Subject: RE: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >>>SIIR 12.6 (Automotive definitions: page 86, '99 rule book) > >A. An open car is a convertible (with or without a full windshield), a >targa-top-type car with less than a full windshield, or a T-top-type car >with less than a full windshield. > >B. A closed car is one with a full roof, a targa-top-type car with a full >windshield, or a T-top-type car with a full windshield.<< > >Thanks, Josh, for shedding some light on the subject. Now on to interpretation. :-) > >According to my interpretation, with the hardtop bolted in place my TR-6 fits "B" above. Obviously, some agree, since I and others have been allowed to compete that way (though I've never tried it in SCCA). > >I'm assuming from the conversation so far that there are some with other opinions. Now that we have the facts, is there anyone who cares to dispute that my hardtopped TR-6 (or any other hardtopped roadster) does NOT fit firmly into "B"? > >What is really lacking now is a clear definition of "convertible". My hardtopped TR-6 has a "full roof". Is it still a "convertible"? If so does it fit into both (or either) group? Any hardboiled tech inspectors out there that want to take a stab at it? Like you said, it's a matter of interpretation. I interpret "full roof" as "fixed roof," but that's easy to dispute. Someone who's more interested in pursuing this officially should request a clarification on "full roof," which could just as easily be applied to a soft top. Of course, they could always go back to the classic definitions: fixed-head, drop-head and roadster (hardtop, convertable, and no roof, for you young'ns). Jamie '92 Prelude Si (FHC) Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:11:57 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Craig Blome Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:03:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Actually you are very un-informed on this subject, however so are many other people in the US so do not feel bad. Nintey percent of tire failures on the road are due to improper air pressure. The tire operated at a low pressure builds up heat over a period of time this create a delamination of the belts in the tire. The belts then pull away from the carcass and take the tread with it. This is due to poor maintenance not due to the tire being retreaded. If you do not believe me, I can direct you to many independent studies that prove this very thing. These studies are done by walking the road and picking up the rubber and recording the failures. We have also seen many trucking companies implement maintenance programs that almost completely eliminate over the road tire failures. By the way I am not campaigning for retreads in Solo II. Rob Pickrell My family has been in the retread business for 62 years. Our retread shop had less than a 1% failure rate. We sold it last year due to market opportunities. We still sell about 1 million in retreads per year. Craig Blome wrote: > --- scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > > Author: Chris Sims wrote: > > > > >Does anybody make performance retreads now? It > > seems like a good > > >idea. . . > > > > Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the > > truck tires on the > > highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't > > put recaps on any car. > > > > I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock > once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and > KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the > heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why > SCCA doesn't allow 'em. > > Craig Blome > Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:16:14 1999 From: Craig Blome To: richj50@bit-net.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: ES: 94+ Celica ST vs. GT --- richj50@bit-net.com wrote: > Which would make a better ES car? Lighter but less > powerful with smaller > wheels, or more powerful with wider wheels but 200+ > lbs heavier and less > well balanced? Beats me. Maybe neither...Bill Kim did quite well running a new Civic Si on street tires at our event last Saturday. > > Are the national standings for HS and ES for 97 & 98 > misleading because of > differences in driver talent, or will these cars be > equally competitive in > ES? I don't think you can really say. I like to toss out the top one or two results when comparing cars, on the assumption that the drivers are statistical outliers; on that basis, the ST and GT look fairly close. (of course, they also ran different heats on different days...) > Or is the ST actually faster than the GT as the > 97/98 standings > suggest? > "The answer is left as an exercise for the student." (ooooh, I *hated* hearing my profs say that... :) Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:26:59 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Net , NEOKLA , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:18:34 -0500 Subject: 93 Honda Civic A friend' son had his honda totaled. He is looking for a street driver and is gfong to make the wrecked car an autocrosses. Anyboy have a 93 or newer for sale. Rob From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:31:28 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Racing Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hoosier 275/45X16 experience? Anyone tried these on a 9" rim? Opinions? As much grip as 275/40X17? TIA -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:42:10 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Jamie Sculerati'" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:37:10 -0500 Subject: RE: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >>fixed-head, drop-head and roadster << Jamie, I hadn't thought of using those terms, but they would be self-explanatory. :-) Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (fixed head coupe) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (drop head coupe) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (ugh) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:44:51 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autox list" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:45:18 -0500 Subject: DSP list? Howdy all. I've been a VW fan ;^) for many years and am thinking about an A1 or A2 chassis DSP (or would that be ESP next year?) project car. Is there a DSP list or perhaps a water cooled VW site with lots of info? Thanks in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:45:43 1999 From: Richard Pilfold To: "'I.Mannix'" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:33:01 -0700 Subject: RE: Tom Ellam? And so you should be! Especially when you consider the wide range of important topics under discussion here. Motel 6 vs Econo Lodge, How much tires cost in the '80s, Recaps , Rear view mirrors, Throttle springs, and even an occasional visit to the Clinique counter. :-) Richard Pilfold -C.S.C.C. BSP 240Z "rpilfold@gdmoore.com" > -----Original Message----- > From: I.Mannix [SMTP:mannix@privatei.com] > Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:03 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Tom Ellam? > > Sorry to bother the list, Thanks! > > > I.Mannix From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:46:22 1999 From: Gemery@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:44:40 EDT Subject: Tom's Horses... IT & AS rules? Tom Gentry and I have written a few msgs privately... it brought up a couple questions from both of us regarding what's legal in Improved Touring and American Sedan. So, on to the tail end of the emails: George, I don't have any problem with going public, I just didn't want to clutter the list with noise. As you can see my mods are pretty minimal, and the car is a daily driver, I don't see myself welding in a roll cage. Thanks for pointing out the ruling on stock wheel size, I missed that. I won't feel quite so out of place in CP. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Gemery@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 6:55 PM To: tgentry@execpc.com Cc: Gemery@aol.com Subject: Re: Tom's (dead) horses >George, sub-frame connectors are generally welded in, not bolted. Bolting > them in would largely defeat their purpose. If that's the general case for SFCs, then they're DEFINITELY not in the spirit of SP. Nothing in SP is a weld-in; strut braces are bolt-in, rollbars are bolt-in, etc. Except welded differentials. Rollcages can be welded in if the rest of the car meets IT rules. Is it possible to have your modifications (assuming you welded in a rollcage) in IT? Or AS (American Sedan) and run in BSP? > Top that with the fact that I can't run CP because of 17" wheels (stock) > and you start to see what cinges my shorts. Yes you can. Rule 15.4.F allows manufacturer's original wheel size. By the way, would you mind if we took this part of the discussion public? I'm thinking there's some good general info in the above and somebody can likely address the IT & AS issues much better than I. George Emery gemery@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:48:31 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: "Craig M. Daugherty" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:42:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? The Prepared classes were listed before the Street Prepared, which came into the program with the idea of allowing cars that run with a lot of different car tweaks and wider rims than allowed in Prepared. So SP got almost "free" wheel sizes, while the Prep classes, which are/were somewhat related to our road racing brethen's rules, had limited wheel sizes, and carburetion, for that matter. But you can take all the upholstery out of Prepared, can't in SP. So Prepared has smaller widths than SP. And Prep is allows the racing carcass slicks (no sidewall strength, lighter), while SP has to stick to a "street" tire which is supposed to be able to handle the bumps in the road, so to speak. Generally speaking, that is. --Pat Kelly Craig M. Daugherty wrote: > All this talk about slicks vs. DOT tires caused me to wonder why the > Prepared classes have restrictions on the wheel sizes when Street Prepared > doesn't? > > Craig Daugherty > Tyler, Texas > 1990 Nissan 300ZX non-turbo, FS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:49:22 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:47:59 -0400 Subject: Re: meditation RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > I confess, I enjoy the little battles that break out about tires. > That's about as far as it goes though. Just some net fun. And I sure hope that's the way it's all taken. How can anybody learn why the rules are the way they are if the rules aren't questioned from time to time? And more often than not, it comes out that there's a pretty good reason behind a rule - slicks in SP being an example. I'm now of the opinion that it's a Bad Idea, now that it's been explained _why_ it's a Bad Idea. Education is Good. > Autocross was at one time a place for the amateur > to enjoy some relatively low pressure and low cost competitive fun with > whatever car he happened to have. Isn't it still that way? This list may have a higher than normal percentage of "serious" autocrossers, and those that want to be "serious" - but isn't the vast majority out there in The Real World still low cost, low pressure, and fun? I mean, there's certainly nothing wrong with being "serious", or wanting to be "serious" (One of the two describes yours truly, after all) - but the "serious" folks are definately in the minority. At least, that's my perception. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 13:50:52 1999 From: whitney To: Wes Shew , Racing Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:48:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Hoosier 275/45X16 experience? I think the hot setup in ESP is these tires (275/45/16) on 16x9.5 - 16x12 rims. Lighter and and more sidewall to wind up (for them pony cars) than the 17's. Cheaper wheels too. #1 and #2 cars had this combo last year in Topeka. Stan Whitney At 12:30 PM 4/23/99 -0700, Wes Shew wrote: >Anyone tried these on a 9" rim? Opinions? As much grip as 275/40X17? TIA > >-- >Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] >#99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder > #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic > SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 14:02:16 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: John Whitling Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:05:07 -0700 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n John Whitling wrote: > > Poorly enforced! Any other sanctioning body would have enforced the intent of the > rule. SCCA officials had every right, according to the rules, to enforce the > rules. I don't think so. Now, I wasn't there at the time, but my understanding was that although it was a different compound, the tires were the same model (T/A R1). It would be up to the rest of the competitors to lodge a protest. Was there one? Apparently not. We judge ourselves. We do not a have full time paid staff of scrutineers in Solo2 as there are in big professional road races. > The tires were clearly different to everyone. It was an SCCA event and BFG > made a concerted effort to circumvent the rules ... not to just a few "contract" > drivers (as had been the case in the past, but that's another issue) but to > everyone that had pre bought BFG tires for that event. Yup. It's tire wars, always will be. It's up to us, as members and a club, to stay on top of them. Remember the hubbub about the G-Forces not being legal last season? That was from the members. > Another thing ... do you really think that BFG would have produced hundreds of > thousands of dollars of tires for that event without some "quiet approval" by at > least one SCCA official???? I wonder .... No, we're not their only customer. Yes, we're a big customer, but not their only one. And the SEB probably doesn't go to a tire manufacturer and say, "we want tires like such and like so" and expect a big response. They make tires for a very large market, and regrettably autox is not at the top of their list. Why they made the 226? They wanted a bigger piece of the pie, and figured if they made the effort ot attract new customers, that they'd succeed. Hmm, seems to have worked too. But I really doubt the whole conspiracy thing here. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 14:26:40 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net, Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:33:15 -0400 Subject: Russ Hoyle R.I.P. I just found out that our friend and true competitor, Russ Hoyle, passed away last night from a long fight with cancer. He was in his early 50's. I first met Russ at an autocross at Road Atlanta in 1995. We were fellow Porsche pilots running in SCCA classes. He had owned his Desert Beige 1970 Porsche 911T since it was new. By the time Russ was competing in the Atlanta area he was driving his car in ASP and winning on a regular basis. He also campaigned the same car in PCA autocrosses in I-2 and garnered several championships. We had grown quite close in the last several years, pitting and working corners at PCA events together. Russ had a great sense of humor and loved to drive his car fast. Last year he and I duked it out at every PCA event for the best time in Improved. He already had cancer and had to stay out of the sun because of his medication. His rental business kept him from running in most of the SCCA events the last two years. I understand that Russ used to live in Ohio and ran his car in SCCA and PCA events there. Russ is survived by his wife, Marianne, and several grown children. There will be a memorial service at the Pleasant Hill Presbyterian Church; 3700 Pleasant Hill Road in Duluth, Georgia on Sunday, April 25th at 2 pm. There will be a graveside service in Florida, later. Ben Thatcher Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II co-chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 14:33:42 1999 From: JD_Kemp@notes.ymp.gov To: hottvr@tfs.net, Lloyd.Wilson@Alcan.Com, stevecouture@yahoo.com, Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:33:02 -0700 Subject: Folding Autocross Chairs Hi All: I've been watching the discussion of folding director's chairs with some interest. In Dixie Region, a certain competitor bought SOOOOOO many of those chairs that around our house we call 'em "Chris Moore Chairs." I believe the volume of her purchases alone were the reason Sam's Club was able to offer them at a good price. (You know I love ya, Chris!) I like the iron-on number idea, too. Does anybody know a good way to make 'em leak oil, so I'll really think I'm sitting in my race car? JD Kemp & "Lucretia MacEvil" #13 MGB From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 14:34:38 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: "Craig M. Daugherty" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:34:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? "Craig M. Daugherty" wrote: > All this talk about slicks vs. DOT tires caused me to wonder why the > Prepared classes have restrictions on the wheel sizes when Street > Prepared doesn't? Because Prepared is not a progression from Street Prepared. Both are different progressions from Stock. In other words, there are two progressions: Stock -> Street Prepared -> Modified Stock -> Prepared -> Modified It's popular to believe that there is a single four-step progression, but there isn't. And there's nothing wrong with that. Prepared and Street Prepared are simply different. Another way to think of it is that Prepared is derived from road racing classes, while Street Prepared is derived from common street mods (of the early 1980's). Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 14:41:41 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: , , , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:41:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Folding Autocross Chairs >I like the iron-on number idea, too. Does anybody know a good way to make 'em >leak oil, so I'll really think I'm sitting in my race car? ==================== Yup, 1/2 gallon of apple cider ought to do it. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 15:32:04 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:30:41 EDT Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tire History Lesson - Again In a message dated 4/23/99 12:55:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cblome@yahoo.com writes: << I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why SCCA doesn't allow 'em. >> 65mph for a few hrs on a hot day with 20tons will do that. Most autoxes aren't quite like that. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 15:46:47 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:27:10 EDT Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tire History Lesson - Again In a message dated 4/23/99 12:41:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com writes: << Does anybody make performance retreads now? It seems like a good >idea. . . Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the truck tires on the highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't put recaps on any car. Scott Phelps >> A good retread is perfectly safe and there is no good reason why retreads should not be allowed in Solo2 Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 15:53:20 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: RacerRay52@aol.com, "Team.Net" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:56:33 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > > A good retread is perfectly safe and there is no good reason why > retreads should not be allowed in Solo2 But that's just it. Whereas a tire manufacturer is quite likely to produce a reliable product. Tire retread companies are widely varied. Some might be excellent, and others might be really shady. How do we determine which we should or could allow? -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:06:30 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:05:08 EDT Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again In a message dated 4/23/99 5:57:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jhadler@rmi.net writes: << A good retread is perfectly safe and there is no good reason why > retreads should not be allowed in Solo2 But that's just it. Whereas a tire manufacturer is quite likely to produce a reliable product. Tire retread companies are widely varied. Some might be excellent, and others might be really shady. How do we determine which we should or could allow? -Josh2 >> I guess it is like everything else you buy. You pays your money and takes your chances. If retreads were allowed in Solo2 the word would get around as to what's hot or not. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:07:19 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Joshua Hadler Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:01:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Perhaps regions could allow retreads for regional events, as they would have a handle on what companies do a good job, and only approve those tires from those companies. Unless, of course, there's something in the insurance coverage that disallows retreads of any kind. Having never seen that document, I don't have a clue. Then, for Tours, Divisionals (maybe), and Pros, and Nationals, of course, they would not be allowed. I wonder if any companies are now manufacturing sticky retreads...not an area I've explored in many, many years. --Pat Kelly Joshua Hadler wrote: > RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > > > > A good retread is perfectly safe and there is no good reason why > > retreads should not be allowed in Solo2 > > But that's just it. Whereas a tire manufacturer is quite likely to > produce a reliable product. Tire retread companies are widely varied. > Some might be excellent, and others might be really shady. How do we > determine which we should or could allow? > > -Josh2 > > -- > Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR > '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro > > jhadler@rmi.net > http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:12:21 1999 From: JVHT@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net (Autocross List) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:10:29 EDT Subject: Timing Lights Gulfcoast Autocrossers Ltd. is in need of new timing lights. We have a JACircuits timer that worked fine with an old set of Heuer lights until a spin took one out. Anyone with experience running a set of lights they would recommend please let us know. We would prefer a reflector set that would run off the power supplied through the cable from the JACircuits timer. If you have a good through beam type to recommend, we would like to hear that one also. The Heuer lights were a through beam system. If you could provide the cost and where we could order them from it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, John Taylor webmaster at GCAC Website From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:24:50 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: lollipop@ricochet.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:28:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Pat Kelly wrote: > > Perhaps regions could allow retreads for regional events, as they would have > a handle on what companies do a good job, and only approve those tires from > those companies. > Unless, of course, there's something in the insurance coverage that > disallows retreads of any kind. Having never seen that document, I don't have > a clue. Just taking a wild stab at this one... I believe that the reason why retreads were banned in the SIIR was primarily do to safety reasons. Hence, the insurance coverage issues. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:29:23 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Joshua Hadler Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:23:43 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again I just asked about the insurance. Is it an issue? Does anybody's insurance coverage ban retreads? Yes or no? If the policies don't, I don't see any reason for not using retreads, especially at regional events. It would certainly lower the cost, seems to me. --Pat Kelly Joshua Hadler wrote: > Pat Kelly wrote: > > > > Perhaps regions could allow retreads for regional events, as they would have > > a handle on what companies do a good job, and only approve those tires from > > those companies. > > Unless, of course, there's something in the insurance coverage that > > disallows retreads of any kind. Having never seen that document, I don't have > > a clue. > > Just taking a wild stab at this one... I believe that the reason why > retreads were banned in the SIIR was primarily do to safety reasons. > Hence, the insurance coverage issues. > > -Josh2 > > -- > Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR > '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro > > jhadler@rmi.net > http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:34:39 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: lollipop@ricochet.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:37:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Pat Kelly wrote: > > I just asked about the insurance. Is it an issue? Does anybody's insurance > coverage ban retreads? Yes or no? If the policies don't, I don't see any reason > for not using retreads, especially at regional events. It would certainly lower > the cost, seems to me. > --Pat Kelly Oh, I was referring to event insurance coverage. And I do believe that allowing something that is specifically disallowed could cause problems with the SCCA insurance carrier. As for individual insurance? I don't know... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:34:51 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: 1991 Camaro 1LE For Sale --0-1804289383-924906810=:27892 Content-Disposition: inline Forwarded at Brad's request. Please respond to him if interested. The Austin area code is 512. Craig Blome Note: forwarded message attached. --0-1804289383-924906810=:27892 X-Apparently-To: cblome@yahoo.com via mdd201.mail.yahoo.com Return-Path: Received: from cis.tamu.edu (128.194.103.8) by mta112.yahoomail.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 1999 14:51:15 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cis.tamu.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA10671 for tamscc-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:39:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cis.tamu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-tamscc using -f From: Brad_Mcrae@Dell.com X-PH: V4.4.7@mail.tamu.edu Message-ID: To: Tommy_Regan@Dell.com, spokes@ccsi.com, tamscc@tamu.edu Subject: Very nice, non-DPS 1991 1LE For Sale Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:34:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-tamscc@cis.tamu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Brad_Mcrae@Dell.com Content-Length: 1624 Well fellas, I still have the 1LE Z28. I need to sell it ASAP, I have a guy holding a 96 SS for me. In order to get rid of this one I am now only asking $7300 for it. This car does not have the B4C option on it, it is strictly a 1LE Z28...no power accessories and is very light. If no one wants to buy it I will be selling to one of those wholesalers, Email me with offers, I know someone can appreciate this car. I will hate to see it go to waste on someone who has no clue what the car really is. Brad McRae Servers Scheduler Pager : 907-4260 Phone: 723-9168 Alpha Message: ID # 054-1972 http://www.mobilecomm.com/message/ <<...>> -----Original Message----- From: Regan, Tommy Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 8:05 AM To: 'Spokes'; 'TAMSCC' Cc: Mcrae, Brad Subject: Very nice, non-DPS 1991 1LE For Sale Forwarded for a co-worker. I haven't seen it, but I believe it's in excellent shape and it was a private owner car, not a DPS unit. All the contact info is at the bottom of the message. Thanks, Tommy The 1LE I just bought is for sale now. If you know anyone that would be interested lemme know. Here are the Specs: 1991 Z28 1LE 30K miles GSC's at all four corners ( 245/50/16) All rotors and brakes are NEW 305 ci TPI 5SPD White/Grey No Mods- all stock Very Tight Very Quick Want to get $9000 atleast Brad McRae Servers Scheduler Pager : 907-4260 Phone: 723-9168 Alpha Message: ID # 054-1972 http://www.mobilecomm.com/message/ --0-1804289383-924906810=:27892-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:49:14 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Pat Kelly , Joshua Hadler Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again --- Pat Kelly wrote: > Perhaps regions could allow retreads for regional > events, as they would have > a handle on what companies do a good job, and only > approve those tires from > those companies. Interesting idea, but I believe it would fall down on the recordkeeping. Regional staff is already overworked without keeping track of which tire remans are good and bad. I think if one were to allow retreads it would likely be under the same criterion as new tires: DOT approved. (U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 117 for you policy wonks out there.) Whether this rule has teeth enough to be useful I have no idea. I wonder what sort of contingency program Bandag has to offer... :-) Craig Blome From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:53:21 1999 From: PZahornask@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:52:03 EDT Subject: Retreads in Solo - again. In a message dated 4/23/99 5:09:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > Just taking a wild stab at this one... I believe that the reason why > retreads were banned in the SIIR was primarily do to safety reasons. > Hence, the insurance coverage issues. > > -Josh2 First, let me point out that the only mandatory rule (for regional events) that applies to tires is 13.3.C.1 - Tire must be in good condition, with no cord or belts showing, or cracks in the tread or sidewall. No where does it say that recaps cannot be used. That is a Stock and SP rule that can be waived regionally. (I know nothing of the Prepared and Mod rules on this) RacerRay52@aol.com writes: > I guess it is like everything else you buy. You pays your money and > takes your chances. If retreads were allowed in Solo2 the word would get > around as to what's hot or not. This is probably the reason that recaps are banned. The whole idea of the tire rule is that everyone competes on tires that are available to the general public. It could be theoretically possible for someone to pay a retreader to put a super sticky compound on that was not available to the general public. Expensive yes, but possible. Paul Zahornasky From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:54:49 1999 From: Kii Lockhorn To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:59:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Peru Solo > Faisal Ahmad wrote: > > > Anyone Have any good/bad expiriences with hotels in the area of the ProSolo > > at Peru? Itll be my first time out so any input will help. I stayed at the Ramada in Kokomo during the Pro -- it was okay, if not a little pricey for what you got. I stayed at the Courtyard by Marriot when I went to the Divisional, and it was much nicer, but I paid for it too. Karen Kraus 1996 Camaro Z28 1LE (FS34) <-- on the DL with a broken front swaybar bracket! -- "You never get away, you only get someplace else." -- Lovka's Dilemma "No matter what they're telling you, they're not telling you the whole truth." -- Todd's Principle "What people want to kill is not themselves, but the pain." -- Abrahms Spring http://www.erols.com/kiirenza From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:56:23 1999 From: Popsracr@aol.com To: richj50@bit-net.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:54:10 EDT Subject: Re: ES: 94+ Celica ST vs. GT In a message dated 4/23/99 11:25:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, richj50@bit-net.com writes: > Which would make a better ES car? Lighter but less powerful with smaller > wheels, or more powerful with wider wheels but 200+ lbs heavier and less > well balanced? > > Are the national standings for HS and ES for 97 & 98 misleading because of > differences in driver talent, or will these cars be equally competitive in > ES? Or is the ST actually faster than the GT as the 97/98 standings > suggest? > Ooooooooh! OK! Here we go Per! The ES GT is significantly faster than the ST. It's got more hp, torque, better gearing, wider wheels, only 1 catalytic convertor on the 94's vs 2 on all ST's and benefits from exhaust changes better. It's slightly heavier but also has a stiffer chassis due to the stock strut brace and has better brakes with disks in the rear. ES and HS ran on different days last year and that makes comparison between them tougher since the concrete was breaking up badly throughout the day and refilled every night or early morning essentially making the surface different for each day. Basically the GT is the better ES car right from the beginning and has the ability to beat the ST at every event. The ST is truly an HS car and will virtually disappear from competition when it goes to ES. It's a shame that such a nice car will go to the netherworld of "used to be competitive" cars. Now some people would argue that it's faster in Topeka so that must mean it should get reclassed. That means they're setting the rules for car classing based on one event and one location. Jim From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 16:57:41 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Joshua Hadler Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:51:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again My question remains: Does the SCCA insurance carrier disallow retreads? Specifically? If not, it seems to me, because the rule book allows regions to make regional variations to the rules, that maybe, just maybe, retreads might be allowed. Like I said, I don't know if retreads are banned because of insurance reasons and that's why it's in the rule book, or just banned because of a perceived safety issue. I raced my 7 in the 60s, they were allowed in road races, as well as autocrosses. I'm sure tire technology has improved since then...everybody tells me so. --Pat Kelly Joshua Hadler wrote: > Pat Kelly wrote: > > > > I just asked about the insurance. Is it an issue? Does anybody's insurance > > coverage ban retreads? Yes or no? If the policies don't, I don't see any reason > > for not using retreads, especially at regional events. It would certainly lower > > the cost, seems to me. > > --Pat Kelly > > Oh, I was referring to event insurance coverage. And I do believe that > allowing something that is specifically disallowed could cause problems > with the SCCA insurance carrier. As for individual insurance? I don't know... > > -Josh2 > > -- > Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR > '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro > > jhadler@rmi.net > http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 17:07:52 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Pat Kelly Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:10:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Pat Kelly wrote: > > My question remains: Does the SCCA insurance carrier disallow retreads? > Specifically? If not, it seems to me, because the rule book allows regions to make > regional variations to the rules, that maybe, just maybe, retreads might be allowed. > Like I said, I don't know if retreads are banned because of insurance reasons and > that's why it's in the rule book, or just banned because of a perceived safety > issue. Well, my understanding of the matter is that if it is a safety issue, that makes it an insurance issue. > I raced my 7 in the 60s, they were allowed in road races, as well as > autocrosses. I'm sure tire technology has improved since then...everybody tells me > so. Ture, it would be worth a letter to the SEB I'd gather... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 17:22:51 1999 From: Paul Schelling & Kate Hughes To: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:15:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Robert M. Pickrell Jr. wrote: > > ...Our retread shop had less than a 1% failure rate... I hope it was a LOT less than 1%. Closer to 1 would be pretty darn awful for such a safety-critical product. I imagine that it is certainly POSSIBLE for a retread to be a perfectly good and much more economical and ecologically conscious tire for street and autocross use. When a retread maker shows me enough evidence that its product is of sufficient quality, I will probably go for it. - Paul From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 17:52:16 1999 From: richj50@bit-net.com To: Popsracr@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: ES: 94+ Celica ST vs. GT > Now some people would argue that it's faster in Topeka so that must mean it > should get reclassed. That means they're setting the rules for car classing > based on one event and one location. The ST was faster than the GT 2 years in a row, maybe because of driver only...who knows. But there was at least one other very quick ST in HS this year that would have done well in ES with the same time. I agree that on paper it looks almost like a no-brainer, but weight and balance count for a lot too. It'd be interesting to hear from someone who's driven both. Rich. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 17:59:24 1999 From: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." To: Paul Schelling & Kate Hughes Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:50:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Less than one percent include many different areas. Many of these were from specific segments of the market. Example waste trucks operate in a very severe enviornement it is not uncommon to repair one of these tires 30 - 50 times in its life span. This tire will have much higher chance of failure than an over the road rig. Customers with good maintenace might not have a failure due to retread problems in a year. One example a customer of ours with 500 truck and 650 trailers. Thats 10,200 tires running 150,000 miles per year. They have 3 or 4 adjustments in a year. National Contract with some of the Largest Fleets in the USA with thousands of vechicles require New Tire Manufacturers and Retread Manufacturers to guarantee adjustment rates of less than 3 - 4% Did you know that New Tires have adjustment rates of between 2 to 4 % for the major brands and much worse for some of the lower teir brands? A 8 - 9/10ths adjustment rate is an extremelly good figure. I understand your thoughts, tires just do not seem to fail these days. It is true they are very reliable products this tends to make people take them for granted. Paul Schelling & Kate Hughes wrote: > Robert M. Pickrell Jr. wrote: > > > > ...Our retread shop had less than a 1% failure rate... > > I hope it was a LOT less than 1%. Closer to 1 would be pretty darn > awful for such a safety-critical product. > > I imagine that it is certainly POSSIBLE for a retread to be a perfectly > good and much more economical and ecologically conscious tire for street > and autocross use. When a retread maker shows me enough evidence that > its product is of sufficient quality, I will probably go for it. > > - Paul From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 18:06:45 1999 From: dennis@raceamerica.com To: JVHT@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:06:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Timing Lights John, May i suggest you check out our autocross timer, the Timer AC4 by RACEAMERICA at our website http://www.raceamerica.com under AUTOCROSS TIMERS. The Owner's Manual for this product is downloadable in Acrobat Reader pdf format. This will give you a more complete insight of the product's features. The Timer AC4 interfaces to a PC running either Autotime's AutoX/TS software or Axware's Event and Club software if you are also in the market for race management software. Pricing is $1,095 complete with cables and IR Emitters and Sensors. We also offer a Large Digital Display which is introductory priced at $1,080. The product Owner's Manual and product information can be found on our website under LARGE DIGITAL DISPLAY. RACEAMERICA is a timing system manufacturer who designs and builds portable timing systems for the racing community and custom designs timers for industrial and commercial use. If you have any questions about our products or would like to discuss them further, drop me an e-mail or contact us through our CONTACT US webpage and I would be glad to answer your questions or provide references for regions using out timers. Thank you, Dennis Laczny RACEAMERICA, Inc. >Gulfcoast Autocrossers Ltd. is in need of new timing lights. We have a >JACircuits timer that worked fine with an old set of Heuer lights until a >spin took one out. Anyone with experience running a set of lights they would >recommend please let us know. We would prefer a reflector set that would run >off the power supplied through the cable from the JACircuits timer. If you >have a good through beam type to recommend, we would like to hear that one >also. The Heuer lights were a through beam system. > >If you could provide the cost and where we could order them from it would be >greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, >John Taylor >webmaster at GCAC Website From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 19:17:37 1999 From: washburn To: "Martens, Brian R." Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:13:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Insurance issues Martens, Brian R. wrote: The > issue of the reasonableness of the requirements was discussed at some > length at the last meeting, with the consensus being that, barring a > written exception, we MUST comply with the letter of the requirements. -- Then I guess you guys shuold vote to cancel the next MOWOG. We were not in full compliance last week, and we will most likely not be next time either. Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 19:25:34 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: "Chan, Albert (GEP)" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:24:27 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility/way backs At 11:23 AM 4/23/99, Chan, Albert (GEP) wrote: >A few recollections from another observer, who has no particular feelings one >way or another: > >* The BFG with assymetric carcass (was that the 226?) was "introduced" >silently at the 1990 Nationals (not the 1989 Nationals as John Whitling >remembers). Not exactly, there were "special" BFG's at Salina in 1989 >* The public acknowledgement by BFG about the 226 (?) was in the April >(?) 1991 Team T/A newsletter, where the cover article was how the assymetric >construction R-1 was "successfully introduced" at Salina and Road America in >the fall of 1990. That was interesting to me, in light of the next two bullet >points. I always went faster on the 224's, the road race version, before they "fixed" them both and called them 230's (DOH!) >* Of course, the tire wars at Nationals was started by Goodyear, in the >large Corvette sized tires at the 1987 Nationals. Limited quantity for certain >drivers. At least that's what's been told to me, by yet another co-driver who >was a Goodyear supported driver for a few years in the late '80s and early >'90s. uhh, I know that there were some special GoodYears in Kansas in 1983, a certain winner won without them. The "favored driver" had them and didn't win... > >Anyone care to share their other recollections? that's mine jim rohn > > >Al Chan >(Had the latest R1s on his F-Stock Firebird at the 1990 Nationals - shared the >car with a BFG contract driver who insisted that I should have the "latest" >rubber) I think it had to do with making sure you were using a certain "size" as well .... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 19:37:46 1999 From: george To: "Team.Net" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:30:06 -0400 Subject: Quequechan Sports Car Club QSCC lost It's bigest backbones today. Ed Farinha past away today 04/23/99 HE WILL ALL MISS HIM From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 19:38:13 1999 From: Rex Weatherford To: Beretta List , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:45:06 -0400 Subject: New Movie! There is a new movie of me racing my GTZ on my web site. It has the best audio of any I have recorded. It'ssssss.....Great. You can find it under: SCCA/1999/PHOTO's Let me know if you have any trouble. Make sure you either down load the file and play it locally or deal with delays when you watch if over the internet. If you have a blank video try downloading a new realplayer or watching the video remotely. Hope everyone enjoys. -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 89,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 150,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 19:42:09 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:40:57 EDT Subject: Other Atwater Motels I delayed calling the Applegate Inn too long. No rooms left. How is the motel next door? Any other motel suggestions? CHD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 19:55:38 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:57:38 -0700 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? > Because Prepared is not a progression from Street Prepared. Both are > different progressions from Stock. Where it isn't, it should be. In Canada, it is completely. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 21:05:41 1999 From: Rex Weatherford To: Beretta List , Norm Crowe , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:12:46 -0400 Subject: Another New Movie! There is a new movie under the archives at http://www.beretta.net It is a movie of one lap at Putnam Park with Norm Crowe in his 88 GT. You can reach Norm @ Norman@stratos.net mailto:Norman@stratos.net Enjoy! -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 89,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 150,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 23:40:26 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Phil Esra" , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:14:48 -0500 Subject: Re: tire history lesson again >Or do they jack up the >prices on high-end tires because they know the suckers will pay, Jeez. Ya think? :-) Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 23:40:56 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:00:57 -0500 Subject: Re: slicks vs. DOT tires >Would slicks work on a heavy (3500 lb) ESP car? Since most CP cars are >much lighter than that and run insanely wide (12") wheels, I wonder >whether ESP cars with 9-10" wheels _could_ run slicks without really >cutting up/overheating them. > >Has anyone ever seen a heavy car respond well to slicks? All of the >underprepared CP cars out there (ESP cars with SFCs for example) that I've >seen are on DOT tires. What do you suppose they run on 3500 lb stock cars? Or pony-cars in the days of the original Trans-Am? There is no legal reason you can't run 12"-wide wheels in ESP, by the way. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 23:41:37 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Joshua Hadler" , "Jamie Sculerati" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:33:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars From: Joshua Hadler Subject: Re: Fw: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >> This is cute, but I regarded the question as legitimate -- I haven't found >> an official definition of "closed car" in the rulebook or anywhere else. >> While common sense suggests to me that a removeable top doesn't fit that >> definition, I've also found that common sense doesn't always apply to the >> book. > >Oh gee, it's here in the book somewhere... I just saw it today as a >matter of fact. Now let's see... where is it... Aha! Here it is. > >SIIR 12.6 (Automotive definitions: page 86, '99 rule book) The problem as I see it is that you just quoted a Solo 2 rule to answer a Solo 1 question. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 23:41:56 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Robert M. Pickrell Jr." , Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:37:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Hit 'em, don't kick 'em! >We have also seen >many trucking companies implement maintenance programs that almost >completely eliminate over the road tire failures. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 23 23:48:37 1999 From: Paul and Meredith Brown To: John Whitling Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:46:15 -0600 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n At 09:46 AM 4/23/99 -0400, John Whitling wrote: >Poorly enforced! Any other sanctioning body would have enforced the intent of the >rule. SCCA officials had every right, according to the rules, to enforce the >rules. The tires were clearly different to everyone. It was an SCCA event and BFG >made a concerted effort to circumvent the rules ... not to just a few "contract" >drivers (as had been the case in the past, but that's another issue) but to >everyone that had pre bought BFG tires for that event. > >Another thing ... do you really think that BFG would have produced hundreds of >thousands of dollars of tires for that event without some "quiet approval" by at >least one SCCA official???? I wonder .... > >John Whitling Here you are wrong. SCCA can only enforce the rules as they are written, not as they are intended. Which is to say, BFG did not "break" or "circumvent" the rules, but they did point out how poorly they were written. As I recall, SCCA did send a representative (not an SEB member) posing as a customer to see if they could buy a set of tires, and they were offered the set. So your statement about those who "pre-bought" tires isn't even correct. They knew the rules, and played within them AS WRITTEN. And SCCA learned a lesson, and rewrote the rule for the following year. Do you really think it's a good idea to try to enforce an intent? "No, I know that's what it says, but here's what we meant"? And we think the rules have grey areas now! BTW, this is definitely not the only example of such a situation. There have been lots and lots of very poorly written rules over the years. Sometimes they are fixed due to someone writing a letter, but sometimes the only way they get fixed is if someone takes advantage of them, or goes out of their way to show how poor the rule really is. There used to be a rule that anything illegal found during a teardown couldn't be considered in the protest unless it had been specifically protested. Seems pretty dumb now, but that's the way it was. It was changed right after a prominent teardown where there were lots of illegal parts, but (by chance) none were mentioned in the protest. Charlie Cave got the SP aero rules revised by building a clearly legal but rather silly Elan (and he almost got tossed for it - sometimes you get a goofball in power). Some day we're going to have someone show up at Nationals with nitrous oxide. I think that it's legal as the rule is written (my rule book is out in the truck, but I don't remember it being changed; nitrous is not a fuel! But pump gas surely has nitrogen in it, so I guess we're all illegal...) but I'm pretty sure the rule was intended to dissallow such a thing. Paul and Meredith Brown MR2: "Not the easiest car in the world to work on" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 00:00:55 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: "Chan, Albert (GEP)" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:55:55 -0700 Subject: Re: FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility Everyone, I just dug out my '89 rulebook. Can't find '88 (if I ever had one -- that was my first year). Section 11.3.B is marked with a change bar, so this may be the first time it appeared: No tire model will be approved for competition during the rest of the year after April 30 of each calendar year. ... A tire model will normally be determined by the designation in the Tire Guide. However, any of the following changes or similar changes (as determined by the Solo Events Board) will also be considered to represent a new tire model for eligibility purposes, even if the designation does not change: Change of tread pattern at either full or partial tread depth; characterization by the manufacturer or distributor of a tire as "new" after April 30. So there you go. That rule was in effect in 1989. My 1991 book appears to have the same wording (though it's in chapter 13 then). Can't find 1990. Josh "Chan, Albert (GEP)" wrote: > > A few recollections from another observer, who has no particular feelings one > way or another: > > * The BFG with assymetric carcass (was that the 226?) was "introduced" > silently at the 1990 Nationals (not the 1989 Nationals as John Whitling > remembers). > * The public acknowledgement by BFG about the 226 (?) was in the April > (?) 1991 Team T/A newsletter, where the cover article was how the assymetric > construction R-1 was "successfully introduced" at Salina and Road America in > the fall of 1990. That was interesting to me, in light of the next two bullet > points. > * If I recall (and I do have the older rule books in my basement, but > I'm not home right now, go ahead and call me anal), the April 30th rule was in > effect in 1990. > * As far as the comment below about protests, Pete Larson did write a > protest at the 1990 Nationals. It was thrown out. > * Of course, the tire wars at Nationals was started by Goodyear, in the > large Corvette sized tires at the 1987 Nationals. Limited quantity for certain > drivers. At least that's what's been told to me, by yet another co-driver who > was a Goodyear supported driver for a few years in the late '80s and early > '90s. > > Anyone care to share their other recollections? > > Al Chan > (Had the latest R1s on his F-Stock Firebird at the 1990 Nationals - shared the > car with a BFG contract driver who insisted that I should have the "latest" > rubber) > > > ---------- > > From: MBD96@aol.com[SMTP:MBD96@aol.com] > > Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 9:19 AM > > To: alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net > > Cc: racers@rt66.com; autox@autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility > > > > In a message dated 4/22/99 8:14:35 PM Central Daylight Time, > > alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net writes: > > > > << I think it was the '89 Nationals in Salina when BFG first introduced the > > 226 > > series tires. They were clearly different tires from the ones that had been > > supplied by BFG all year ... specially made for Salina. The powers that be > > (not > > you I understand) at the time let those tires run. That was pure politics. > > Were > > you running a G stock SVO back then on Generals? >> > > > > I don't have my 1989 rule book handy, so excuse me here. However, what were > > > > the rules for stock and street prepared tires in 1989? Those rules were > > DIFFERENT FROM the rules we operate under today. > > > > If the tires weren't 'legal' by the 1989 rule book's definition, and people > > had major heartburn over it, where were the protests? There weren't any! > > So > > the people you allude to that allowed these tires to run was you, me, and > > every other member there in attendance. You call that politics? Call it > > whatever you want. It's just as much your fault as mine or anyone else's > > for > > not protesting these tires if they didn't meet the letter of the rules in > > effect at that time. > > > > As for the SVO and the Generals? Proves my earlier point. Neither were the > > > > popular choice 'du jour' back then, were they? I knew what BFG had > > available > > and (with the idea coming from John Ames) went a different route because I > > didn't like the performance of their tires on my 5.0. The market worked. > > > > Bruce (we are a member driven club, believe it or not) Dickey > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 08:52:20 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: mikelowe@pop.c-com.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:21:15 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points I was at the National Tour in Texas also. I gave up local points to go to a big National event. I think my 500 mile drive one way is worth something. I also plan to attend the Tour in Evansville Indiana. I would have went to the Meridian event if my new car had been ready. I think that if one is willing to make the financial sacrifice to go, there should be a National Tour points system. For me running the big National style events is the quickest way to get good at the "game". Mike B. TLS#1 99cm mikelowe@pop.c-com.net wrote: > > Why is there no National Tour points ranking? I think someone touched on > > this > > awhile back. I think it would be a great idea. > > If there was nationwide ranking, people that really dig > championships would be forced to attend events across the country. > Let's see, the Denver folks come out to the event site and set up > their equipment. People do their runs. Then Denver tallies up the > points. Gee, sounds like Pro Solo to me. > The cool thing about National Tours is that we get > Denver-administrated (with local officials) events. But they are > _seperate_ events. > I rented a kart (yeehah!) at the Fort Worth Tour. That will be > the only Tour I do this year. I live near Houston and that Tour was > the only National SCCA event in my part of the continent. Every > other such event was/is >500 miles away. Most are >1000 miles away. > > We do not need three seperate nationwide championships (Tours, Pro > Solos, and Nationals). Two is enough. > > Mike Lowe mikelowe@phoenix.net http://www.phoenix.net/~mikelowe > Texas A&M Sports Car Club Houston Region SCCA Miata Club of America > '96 Miata R BS 93 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 08:52:23 1999 From: "Jason Powell" To: "Tim Reinhardt" , "Team.net" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:09:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Caster vs Camber in Miatas etc ? > I just had my new Miata aligned and I asked for max. positive caster and > max. negative camber in the front. They dialed in the caster and there > was little room for negative camber. > This is what I always have done to my miata... 1) dial out all caster 2) dial in max neg camber 3) dial in any remaining caster Jason From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 08:59:14 1999 From: "Jan Schmidt" To: autox@autox.team.net, cmdaugherty@tyler.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:35:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? Hello list I have pondered this very question myself. Wouldnt it be neat if SP wheel rules were the same as the Prepared? Then if you raced your car in SP for a couple of years and decided to jump to P you would already have the correct wheels and wouldnt have to spend another grand for a new set of wheels. This would help bring back a little economy into our"grassroots" sport. If you retired from autocrossing you would have both the P and SP group to sell your used wheels to. Same thing if you continued to autocross but got a different car. Pardon my economy mindset, my motto is"budget racing" although I am sure I didnt invent this Phrase. Bill Schmidt cs rx7 KC region >>> "Craig M. Daugherty" 04/23 1:49 PM >>> All this talk about slicks vs. DOT tires caused me to wonder why the Prepared classes have restrictions on the wheel sizes when Street Prepared doesn't? Craig Daugherty Tyler, Texas 1990 Nissan 300ZX non-turbo, FS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:00:55 1999 From: mikelowe@pop.c-com.net To: hottvr@tfs.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 01:07:28 +0000 Subject: Re: National Tour points > Why is there no National Tour points ranking? I think someone touched on > this > awhile back. I think it would be a great idea. If there was nationwide ranking, people that really dig championships would be forced to attend events across the country. Let's see, the Denver folks come out to the event site and set up their equipment. People do their runs. Then Denver tallies up the points. Gee, sounds like Pro Solo to me. The cool thing about National Tours is that we get Denver-administrated (with local officials) events. But they are _seperate_ events. I rented a kart (yeehah!) at the Fort Worth Tour. That will be the only Tour I do this year. I live near Houston and that Tour was the only National SCCA event in my part of the continent. Every other such event was/is >500 miles away. Most are >1000 miles away. We do not need three seperate nationwide championships (Tours, Pro Solos, and Nationals). Two is enough. Mike Lowe mikelowe@phoenix.net http://www.phoenix.net/~mikelowe Texas A&M Sports Car Club Houston Region SCCA Miata Club of America '96 Miata R BS 93 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:06:50 1999 From: "The Christianson's" To: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:32:00 -0500 Subject: Required Stickers Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:53:02 -0500 From: "Phil Ethier" Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover >>I spent a lot of >>money on my paint job a week before nationals. The scca in its ultimate >>wisdom said I had to place the decals on my brand new paint right in the >>center of one of the flames. Upon removal, I managed to pull the clear >>coat off I agree with Phil on this. The SCCA needs to pull their heads out of the dark place. We have to run certain decals, I assume to advertise the sport and get new people involved. (which I am in favor of doing) However we show up at the event and then put the magnetics on so we can pass tech and advertive the our great sport. Oh wait a minute the only people that ever see the decal advertising the sport are people that are competing and obviously know about the sport. And because of our insurance we have to discourage people from dropping by and watching, and possibly getting interested. I guess the point is why such a fuss over decals that only club members will ever see. Is it so that course workers know that a the current car is not a renagade from another club that we should chase off. While I'm on this kick another stupid one was the really pretty new decal they had at nationals last year that they wanted everyone to have. It says something like Follow Me to the Fun, and would be great for the back of a trailer. But rather than give these to members you had to buy them. Obviously this is not a jab at the price but the principle of having to pay to advertise the club. Phil, another trick is to peel just a little of the backing and tack it on only good enough to last for the event. There I feel better. Jeff Christianson From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:08:40 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: "Team.Net" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 02:28:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Killer tech inspector seems to me those guys need to figure out what they are testing for. Mayve you should sic Gerstein on them! wheel shake. the object is not to violently shake the car. It only takes a small and light shake of the wheel, really a push and a tug with not much force, and what you are looking for is a telltale click which you might feel or you might hear. If you shake the wheel roughly, you will set up so much action and noise you will neither feel nor hear the signs of a loose wheel bearing. Battery. The question is, is it firmly anchored, not whether a Herculean effort can rip it loose from its moorings. If it is not firm, it will move with little effort. If you jerk the battery, you impart to it the kind of force akin to a collision, not that of a hard turn or hard braking. No matter how hard you brake, your battery is going the same speed as the car and there is a gradualness to the slowdown that means an anchored battery will generally remain so. --rocky Entriken Patrick 507 wrote: v v v v v I have had trouble in the philly region with inspectors that feel they are destructively testing the car. Last year one inspector would grab the tire and shake the whole car then tell me I needed wheel bearings. He did this every week, even the week I installed new bearing due to other work and had set the endplay with a dial indicator. Last week, another jerked on my battery until he bent the factory sheet metal battery box. Then told me my battery was loose. I had to do emergency "Hammer" work to Get it back in shape. Should send these folks repair bills! Pat From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:15:21 1999 From: "Chan, Albert (GEP)" To: "'team.net'" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:16:45 -0400 Subject: Corrections to Previous Post FW: The tire thing^n and personal re I did some homework when I got home last night. I also have seen postings from Jim Rohn and Jost Sirota. Found out that I had a few things wrong, so I feel that I owe everyone a correction to my posting of yesterday. * The asymmetric construction (stiffer inside wall) that was introduced, officially, in 1991 and debuted at Salina in 1990 was the 206 model, for autocrossing. * The Team T/A Newsletter that talked about how the 204 and 206 series were successful at their Salina and Road Atlanta debuts was the December 1990/January 1991 issue. * The protest that Pete Larson wrote on tires was at the 1988 Nationals, and not the 1990 Nationals. Protest was thrown out since the protested tires was of a tire model introduced by April 30th, and therefore were legal. * As Josh mentioned in his post, the only two criteria for a new model was tread pattern or model designation by the tire manufacturer. Construction was not included in the rule. I was gently reminded in a private posting about the 1989 BFG tires, at Nationals, having (supposedly - can't claim personal experience, as I wasn't on BFGs in '89) a special compound. Same private posting also reminded me that some folks "banked" their '89 Nationals tires for major events in 1990, and did rather well. Since, again, I don't have first hand experience, it would be inappropriate for me to cite details. I hesitate to write this, but do so because John Whitling did mention the '89 tires in his original post that kicked all this off. Al Chan (will be off-line until Monday, feel free to privately post any debates) > ---------- > From: Chan, Albert (GEP) > Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 11:23 AM > To: 'team.net' > Subject: FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility > > A few recollections from another observer, who has no particular feelings > one way or another: > > * The BFG with assymetric carcass (was that the 226?) was "introduced" > silently at the 1990 Nationals (not the 1989 Nationals as John Whitling > remembers). > * The public acknowledgement by BFG about the 226 (?) was in the April > (?) 1991 Team T/A newsletter, where the cover article was how the assymetric > construction R-1 was "successfully introduced" at Salina and Road America in > the fall of 1990. That was interesting to me, in light of the next two > bullet points. > * If I recall (and I do have the older rule books in my basement, but > I'm not home right now, go ahead and call me anal), the April 30th rule was > in effect in 1990. > * As far as the comment below about protests, Pete Larson did write a > protest at the 1990 Nationals. It was thrown out. > * Of course, the tire wars at Nationals was started by Goodyear, in the > large Corvette sized tires at the 1987 Nationals. Limited quantity for > certain drivers. At least that's what's been told to me, by yet another > co-driver who was a Goodyear supported driver for a few years in the late > '80s and early '90s. > > Anyone care to share their other recollections? > > > Al Chan > (Had the latest R1s on his F-Stock Firebird at the 1990 Nationals - shared > the car with a BFG contract driver who insisted that I should have the > "latest" rubber) > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:24:58 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:23:27 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 11:06:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mikelowe@pop.c-com.net writes: << If there was nationwide ranking, people that really dig championships would be forced to attend events across the country. >> "Forced"?? Actually I agree with you. But it wouldn't exactly be forced attendance. What it would be is a chance for someone with a lot of free time and travel money to go all over the country and at the season's end say "Look at me! I'm a Champion!" They would go from event to event racking up points even if they never won a single event and would have a "Championship" that meant absolutely nothing. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:32:46 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:43:28 -0400 Subject: Russ Hoyle Memorial Solo II Tomorrow The Atlanta SCCA NOPI Solo II Series event, Sunday, April 25 has been named the "Russ Hoyle Memorial Solo II" in honor of the fallen ASP Porsche 911 #3 ace who succumbed to cancer, Thursday, April 22nd. The weather is suposed to be in the mid 70s with partly cloudy skies. You can still register on-line today at . Please note the following run/work order: Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO, BP, CP Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, ST, STR, STU Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, EP, DP, KMJr., Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, KM The following run/work schedule will be followed: April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) May 16 Points #4: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green June26 School AMS June 27 Points #5: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow July 25 Points #6: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue August 14 Points #7: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red August 15 Points #8: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green August 28-29 SEDIV Perry, GA (must be an SCCA member) September 18-19 AMS NOPI Nationals October 10 Points #9: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow October 24 Points #10: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue November 7 ChampionofChampions AMS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:44:30 1999 From: "john matthews" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:44:18 PDT Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars FWIW: I just replaced the roof on my ITD Honda Civic after having my partner break that "shiny side up" rule in last years enduro. I can tell you definitively..... Any car roof can and will collapse if you roll it! Do the smart thing in install a full roll cage per the GCR. Bolt in's start at around $500. You might even want to do this for your street car depending on how you drive.... Cheers, John Matthews From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:49:59 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Paul and Meredith Brown" , Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:05:17 -0700 Subject: Re: The tire thing^n Some day we're going to have >someone show up at Nationals with nitrous oxide. I think that it's legal >as the rule is written (my rule book is out in the truck, but I don't >remember it being changed; nitrous is not a fuel! But pump gas surely has >nitrogen in it, so I guess we're all illegal...) but I'm pretty sure the >rule was intended to dissallow such a thing ========================== Hey wait a minute, nitrous is legal after all? WOOHOO!!!! It may not make me any faster but then again if I plumb it to my helmet instead of the intake manifold then I really won't care who gets FTD. ;^) See you on course. Eric (okay I inhaled once or twice) Linnhoff in KC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:56:42 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:55:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re[2]: Tire History/wouldn't do WHAT? Sorry Scott, I just had to.... At 12:34 PM 4/23/99, scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > snip > > Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the truck tires on the > highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't put recaps on any car. > > Scott Phelps > Team SOL #1 > 88 Yugo GVX EP then there are those of us that wouldn't put a Yugo in our driveway either! :-) Please see the humor intended here, this is NOT a deliberate attack on your "unique" choice of vehicles Jim Rohn From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 09:57:47 1999 From: Whitney To: "Jan Schmidt" , autox@autox.team.net, Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:55:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? The ultimate goal in the future for this is a wheel+tire size rule, where the combination must fit into say a 10"x25" box, any wheel or tire width you want, so long as it meets those final dimensions. The local tire guys would be thrilled to see my cantilevers go away. Although, it does mean I can find 13x6 'race ' wheels at the salvage yard for $25 ea. Stan Whitney DP/EP crx At 09:35 AM 4/24/99 -0500, Jan Schmidt wrote: >Hello list >I have pondered this very question myself. Wouldnt it be neat if SP wheel rules were the same as the Prepared? Then if you raced your car in SP for a couple of years and decided to jump to P you would already have the correct wheels and wouldnt have to spend another grand for a new set of wheels. This would help bring back a little economy into our"grassroots" sport. If you retired from autocrossing you would have both the P and SP group to sell your used wheels to. Same thing if you continued to autocross but got a different car. Pardon my economy mindset, my motto is"budget racing" although I am sure I didnt invent this Phrase. >Bill Schmidt cs rx7 KC region > >>>> "Craig M. Daugherty" 04/23 1:49 PM >>> >All this talk about slicks vs. DOT tires caused me to wonder why the >Prepared classes have restrictions on the wheel sizes when Street Prepared >doesn't? > >Craig Daugherty >Tyler, Texas >1990 Nissan 300ZX non-turbo, FS > ! > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 10:02:44 1999 From: rikracer To: Craig Blome , scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com, Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:25:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tire History Lesson - Again >> Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the >> truck tires on the >> highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't >> put recaps on any car. >> > >I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock >once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and >KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the >heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why >SCCA doesn't allow 'em. > >Craig Blome >Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX > In many, many years of autocrossing on retreads (this was 20 years ago) and most of my competitors using them also, I never saw one come apart. I seriously doubt there is any danger in a 1 minute run. Road racing would be a different story. I would guess truck tires come apart after many hours and many miles of continuous running after much heat buildup. Not saying I think they would be competitive to today's technology anyway. Rick Brown AP 240Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 10:17:48 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:12:16 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points Lots of people have won regional championships without winning an event. Are those meaningless also? It says a lot when someone makes the"show" every week. Maybe they lack driving skills but makeup for it with car preparation and enthusiasm. I don't see that its any different than keeping points for any other series. Regional, Divisional or National, whats the difference? Mike B. TLS#1 (I'd go) RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/24/99 11:06:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > mikelowe@pop.c-com.net writes: > > > > What it would be is a chance for someone with a lot of free time and travel > money to go all over the country and at the season's end say "Look at me! I'm > a Champion!" They would go from event to event racking up points even if they > never won a single event and would have a "Championship" that meant > absolutely nothing. > > Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 10:36:35 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:35:17 EDT Subject: Heat Cycling G-Forces Well, the 3rd set of G-Forces arrived this week. They were heat cycled at Tire Rack. Before the Atwater Pro Solo, should we 1) heat cycle them on the street 2) use them at Mather AFB tomorrow 3) slap them on at Atwater and run Charlie Davis From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 10:38:40 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: Josh Sirota Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:02:03 -0700 Subject: Re: FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility There continue to be errors of fact in this thread that I believe need to be cleared up: 1. The "Salina compound" tire that BFG had at Nationals in 1989 was not a 22x, it was a 206. And they didn't change the tire designation, they just molded some of the same tires with an even softer compound. 2. The 22x series - the first beiing the 224 - was debuted in Showroom Stock in 1992, and I believe the first event was the Runoffs, although I'm not sure. This tire WAS a new model at that time, and it was NOT legal in Solo II in 1992. The 224 was sold in one compound only (road race) through 1993, and it was legal in Solo II that year. There was no autox compound, however. The 204/206 tire continued to be available that year. 3. The 226 autox compound was introduced in 1994, and the casing design of both tires was revised. It was intro'ed early enough in enough sizes to be legal for Solo II that year. 4. The 226 was discontinued in 1996, and the remaining tire was designated 230. I'm speaking of general availability when I say "introduced." There may well have been contract drivers who tested the tires earlier than they were generally sold. In any case, the above is, I beleive, a reasonably correct chronology of the evolution of BFG tire models. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 10:39:30 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:37:45 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 12:16:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hottvr@tfs.net writes: << Lots of people have won regional championships without winning an event. Are those meaningless also? It says a lot when someone makes the"show" every week. Maybe they lack driving skills but makeup for it with car preparation and enthusiasm. I don't see that its any different than keeping points for any other series. Regional, Divisional or National, whats the difference? Mike B. TLS#1 (I'd go)>> A series requiring thousands of miles of travel will have someone in a given class who goes around the country beating up on locals who only run in that area. Or even if the travelers don't win they rack up 2nd or 3rd place [or worse] points in many events. I wouldn't feel that I had done much if I got a championship by just showing up and getting some points when I'm the only one running enough events to get the championship. Plenty of so-called championships in regions and local areas are the same. Many of us have won lots of events and championships where there was little or no competition. I don't fail to tell myself not to feel too proud of the ones I've gotten that way. I guess just being there is worth something. But it makes for a hollow victory. The wins that mean something to me are the ones where there was plenty of good competition. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 10:42:03 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: rikracer Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:36:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Doesn't PCA allow Bantags (or something like that) now? --Pat Kelly rikracer wrote: > >> Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the > >> truck tires on the > >> highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't > >> put recaps on any car. > >> > > > >I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock > >once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and > >KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the > >heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why > >SCCA doesn't allow 'em. > > > >Craig Blome > >Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX > > > In many, many years of autocrossing on retreads (this was 20 years ago) and > most of my competitors using them also, I never saw one come apart. I > seriously doubt there is any danger in a 1 minute run. Road racing would be > a different story. I would guess truck tires come apart after many hours > and many miles of continuous running after much heat buildup. Not saying I > think they would be competitive to today's technology anyway. > > Rick Brown > AP 240Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 10:43:49 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:42:40 EDT Subject: what am I doing wrong?! I'm getting worried. For the last couple of days I have been getting emails agreeing with my posts to the net. :-) Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 12:19:02 1999 From: "Karl A. Rickert" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:12:24 -0400 Subject: Old Autocross Photos, Who are They? Found some old photos of autocrosses in the East Tennessee Region. Can anyone tell me who these folks are or where these events were held? I was only about 12 when I took these. http://personalpages.tds.net/~alfakarl/oldautox.htm Karl A. Rickert C Stock Alfa Spider #38 Dixie Region SCCA TLS #25 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 12:23:46 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: RacerRay52@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:22:25 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points Whos to say that there wouldn't a bunch of guys and gals that would run Nationally? I think if you look at the results you see some of the same people attending the National Tours around the country. If Solo wants a big time image have National points and watch what happens. The road race guys have a National series(SRF) whats the difference? Maybe some of us want to run around the country seeing new places and racing SoloII at the same time. Why not put the competition in the deal. I still think this is good idea Got to go load up for a local event tommorow I get points for it even if I suck Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 12:27:44 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: RacerRay52@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:26:25 EDT Subject: Re: what am I doing wrong?! I don't know? Maybe I'm the stupid one?(Don't answer Eric). I suggest you try standing on your head while you type your posts. I still like National points Mike TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 12:34:16 1999 From: MBD96@aol.com To: Smokerbros@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:32:40 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Cycling G-Forces In a message dated 4/24/1999 11:48:02 AM Central Daylight Time, Smokerbros@aol.com writes: << Well, the 3rd set of G-Forces arrived this week. They were heat cycled at Tire Rack >> Just a question... How are the tires 'heat cycled' at the Tire Rack? Bruce Dickey From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 12:38:33 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: MBD96@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:43:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Heat Cycling G-Forces MBD96@aol.com wrote: > > Just a question... How are the tires 'heat cycled' at the Tire Rack? Microwave.......one hour on "High Speed" ;-) Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 12:53:45 1999 From: Tom Reichel To: schumi@vcn.bc.ca, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:54:26 -0400 Subject: 275/45-16 Hoosiers Wes, John Ames has had pretty good luck with 275/45-16's on both his Camaro and Mustang in ESP :-) They were on 9.5" or 10.0" rims though. John chose the 16" over the 17" tire because of the greater sidewall height and thus more compliance. If you don't need a 17" rim for brake clearance, I'd choose the 16" 275 over the 17" 275 tire. Hope this helps. If you need tires I can get them to you in 2-3 days. Regards, Tom Reichel Mid-Atlantic Motorsport Specializing in Solo since 1985 248-852-5006 hoosiert@ix.netcom.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 12:55:01 1999 From: Steve Bearden To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Hi All, I'm a digest reader, so this is kinda late. In the mid '60s I was a poor HS student and the early '70s a poor sailor buying recapped tires exclusively for my cars due to cost. Of all the tires I bought and used I only had two failures. Both were in 1970-71. One was a Goodyear recap and one was a Firestone recap. Both were inflated properly initially, but the casings had a nail hole under the cap that caused the failure. >From my tour of the local recapper in the '60s I knew that to get a good recap one had to start with a good (no holes or repairs) casing - or run tubes. From a safety standpoint, who (not which company) does the recapping and selecting of the casing is critical in getting a good recap. This is not the kind of automated process that is used in original tire manufacturing and much more subject to the skill of the operator. Another possilbe reason that recaps may not have been allowed in stock and sp (at least locally) was that there were NO autox specific tires for stock in the '60s. Recappers could give you a wide and soft compound tire that would make the significant difference on a competitive car. These were "special" tires done for "special" customers at small shops. They were not generally available to all competitors. Today, it might be difficult for a recap shop to duplicate the performance level of a modern autox tire in a recap. Certainly, it could save local autocrossers a bit of money, though. Assuming that you had your own tires recapped to assure a good casing, this could work out well with a cooperative recapper. IMNSHO Steve From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 13:38:35 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: "Chan, Albert (GEP)" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:34:33 -0700 Subject: Re: Corrections to Previous Post FW: The tire thing^n and personal "Chan, Albert (GEP)" wrote: > * As Josh mentioned in his post, the only two criteria for a new model > was tread pattern or model designation by the tire manufacturer. Construction > was not included in the rule. I didn't really mention anything, I just quoted. But now I'll mention something. The wording of this rule (in '89) was: "Any of the following changes OR SIMILAR CHANGES (AS DETERMINED BY THE SOLO EVENTS BOARD) will also be considered to represent a new model for eligibility purposes, even if the designation does not change: change of tread pattern at either full or partial tread depth; characterization by the manufacturer or distributor of a tire as "new" after April 30th." Caps mine. Surely construction is a similar change to those other two. It's included, just implicite instead of explicite. It's clear to me that if someone had actually bothered to protest a tire construction change for a tire introduced at Salina, they could have done so and prevailed. No one bothered. Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 14:09:52 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Smokerbros@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Heat Cycling G-Forces On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 Smokerbros@aol.com wrote: > Well, the 3rd set of G-Forces arrived this week. They were heat cycled at > Tire Rack. Before the Atwater Pro Solo, should we > 1) heat cycle them on the street > 2) use them at Mather AFB tomorrow > 3) slap them on at Atwater and run How did you break-in the first 2 sets? IMHO I'd choose 2) above. -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 15:14:13 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: eric10mm@qni.com, racers@rt66.com, alliancemillsoft@worldnet.att.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:11:37 EDT Subject: Re: The tire thing^n Just another Eric Linhoff, Harely Biker, acid head, wet dream come true. The next thing ya know, National Tour points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Run away TOTO its to much to handle, We can't handle somebody who can travel AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 16:35:08 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:33:46 EDT Subject: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 2:22:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Hottvr writes: << If Solo wants a big time image have National points and watch what happens. >> I have already told you what will happen. Someone in a given class will be the only one to run all the events because he is the only one with the free time and the travel money to do so. He will probably also have enough money to have a car that works in a class and all the tweaks that can be had to make it good. So even if he is a crummy driver he will be the only one to score points [or have a chance to score] in EVERY event. His "championship" will be a reward for showing up, not for being good at the sport. It could be fun to do that. Travel is broadening, the old saying says. But such a championship would be one I would be a little embarrassed to actually put on my resume. Someone might ask who you ran against in all those events. It would be some different people in each one. Solo2 having a big time national image is a pipe dream. Attempts to give it a big time image just make it more expensive and less interesting for people who would enjoy it for what it is -- a half fast substitute for racing. Say "half fast" three times quickly and you will get the idea. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 16:52:50 1999 From: Randy Chase To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:54:43 -0700 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/24/99 2:22:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Hottvr writes: > > << If Solo wants a big time image have National > points and watch what happens. >> We already have this in a fashion with the ProSolo series. So far it has not contributed to a big time image. It may eventually... > > I have already told you what will happen. Someone in a given class will > be the only one to run all the events because he is the only one with the > free time and the travel money to do so. It is not true now in ProSolos, so I would not think it would be true in a tour series either (not that I want one). I see many of the same competitors. I think there are more folks with time than you think. I keep running against them. 8) He will probably also have enough > money to have a car that works in a class and all the tweaks that can be had > to make it good. So even if he is a crummy driver he will be the only one to > score points [or have a chance to score] in EVERY event. His "championship" > will be a reward for showing up, not for being good at the sport. I haven't seen many folks take a 1st place in national events that did not deserve it. Most of the good drivers are that way because of talent and experience and a bit of luck. I haven't seen money make as much difference as you seem to think. Randy Chase (no time...doing it anyway) '91 MR2 CS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 17:29:29 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: sbeard@rocketmail.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:26:28 EDT Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again In a message dated 4/24/99 3:12:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sbeard@rocketmail.com writes: << Assuming that you had your own tires recapped to assure a good casing, this could work out well with a cooperative recapper. >> That's right. Get a good casing and get a known good recapper to put tread on it. Save some bucks and still have some fun. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 17:51:34 1999 From: "Chris and Per Schroeder" To: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:54:13 -0500 Subject: RE: 94+ Celica ST vs GT As someone who has driven and owned both, I'd say it depends on the course as to which is faster. Topeka tends to have courses that favor the ST. In 97, I was 3rd in H at Topeka, I think I would have been 4th in E....So, on paper, based on Topeka results only...the ST can be a competitive E car AT Topeka. Now, a lot of regions/clubs will have courses with tight corners, followed by fast straights...here's where the GT can really work. Sure, it's got more power, so if you've got a "YEEEHAAAA" course, the GT will beat the ST. I actually drove both cars back to back today...on a fast/flowing course that have very few slow-downs. I preferred the ST because of it's ability to use ALL of it's power w/o wheelspin. The GT just lights them up w/o any more forward momentum. Part of this was due to my finishing up of the last of my R-1's on my GT and they are at the end of their useful lifespan...but it was very clear that the ST gets the job done. So...to be honest, I can't see any reason why they are in seperate classes....I prefer to own the GT because of it's fun to drive quotient, but on an autocross course, the ST is sure easy to work with. FWIW, the SCAC has received letters from members that want the ST to move to E. No one has written opposing this move. So, the people who are worried about their ST's moving for Y2k should probably get their typing fingers going...hint hint. Per opinions do not reflect those of the SCAC professional driver on a closed course keep your head and hands inside The Mixer at all times From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 17:54:08 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:52:46 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 6:58:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randyc2@home.com writes: << I haven't seen many folks take a 1st place in national events that did not deserve it. Most of the good drivers are that way because of talent and experience and a bit of luck. I haven't seen money make as much difference as you seem to think. >> It takes money to travel back and forth across the country. And time off from work that not everyone can get to suit their "racing" schedule. A championship based on the Tour would be okay if you got lucky [or unlucky, depending on how you look at it] and all the competitors in your class showed up for every event in the series. A championship based on being the only one to show up at all the events would be just a tad hollow. I'd hide the trophy. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 18:08:23 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:12:53 -0700 Subject: Kumho Recommended Pressures? They are 225-50-15 Kumhos on 6x15 rims. The car is a '92 240 SX SE at 2750#, rear drive, IRS, camber challenged in front (damn those inconsistent Japenese engineers.....). Deceased G-Farces liked 42# front, 37# rear until untimely and early death :-( First Question - Could anyone give me ballpark F & R pressures to start with? I have a pyrometer to help as the event progresses. Second Question - can one "read' the sidewall on Kumhos for 'scrub' as a clue? Informed advice appreciated. Event is Sunday, tomorrow. Tires have been heat cycled..... Thanks, Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 18:18:07 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "The Christianson's" , Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:11:26 -0400 Subject: Re: SCCA wisdom (was Required Stickers) -----Original Message----- From: The Christianson's >And because of our insurance we have to discourage people >from dropping by and watching, and possibly getting interested. I guess >the point is why such a fuss over decals that only club members will ever >see. Is it so that course workers know that a the current car is not a >renagade from another club that we should chase off. Not exactly. We cannot advertise specifically for spectators, because (I assume for insurance reasons) that would require additional safety and crowd control measures precautions we're generally not prepared to make to temporary sites. Road racing events have the same problem -- they're just more prepared to deal with them. I have seen road racing events advertised as "non-spectator," though. There is *nothing* that prevents us from advertising the event and encouraging people to come by and learn more about the club (any club) and the sport -- so long as we're pitching to potential *participants.* Who sign the waiver and so on. But they're free to hang out and watch as long as they want. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 18:32:22 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:19:42 -0700 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > I have already told you what will happen. Someone in a given class will > be the only one to run all the events because he is the only one with the > free time and the travel money to do so. Pro Solo has pretty well proven that premise false. With a points system that makes running in, but not necessarily winning, the season finale essential to win your class, I'm not aware of any class wins that were, in effect, attendance awards. > He will probably also have enough > money to have a car that works in a class and all the tweaks that can be had > to make it good. Pretty much like the guys who win National Tour classes now, huh? Exactly what's wrong with that? > So even if he is a crummy driver he will be the only one to > score points [or have a chance to score] in EVERY event. Haven't run in too many Tours, have we? If points can only be earned by finishing in a trophy position, and if the Solo II Nationals results are weighted heavily enough, it's very unlikely that a "crummy driver" would win the series. > Solo2 having a big time national image is a pipe dream. Well, we agree on one thing at least. Image isn't everything, however. >a half fast substitute for > racing. Nope. Lots of autoxers have the resources and the talent to do well in racing, and they CHOOSE to autox out of a genuine preference for the sport. OTOH, lots of competitive road racers aren't worth a damn at autoxing. Different sports, different skill sets. I think I see where you're coming from now. You object to the idea that Solo II has become a competitive sport in its own right and has attracted some real talent as a result, and therefore it's a whole lot harder (but not necessarily more expensive) to win. All I can say is the bar will continue to be raised, and it will take more effort, talent, and motivation to win as time goes on. That's a Good Thing, IMHO. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 18:34:48 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: jemitchell@compuserve.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:33:27 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 8:31:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: << All I can say is the bar will continue to be raised >> Silk purse out of a sow's ear. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 19:01:13 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:59:36 -0700 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > Silk purse out of a sow's ear. If that's how you feel, then precisely WHY are you wasting so much time bitching on team.net? You haven't been forced to compete in autox. Maybe you should go play with the "REAL" racers. You've certainly got my permission. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 19:12:33 1999 From: Randy Chase To: Jay Mitchell Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:14:21 -0700 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay wrote: >> Silk purse out of a sow's ear. On a positive note, I am reminded of all the people I see who strive to be competitive and do well on limited time and money, and much less whining. I feel this group constitutes the vast majority of autocrossers I have come across. They take the car they have, they learn how to drive, find out how to set it up. They try to udnerstand what works and what doesn't. They try to understand the rules. I am surrounded by this type of competitor at every event. More often than not, this is the type of person who is in the trophies. I have done my share of whining, but at least I have learned that the whining did nothing to help me win. Focus on what you do well and what you need to do well. >> A championship based on being the only one to show up at all the events would be just a tad hollow. I'd hide the trophy. You must not understand how ProSolo works. You are only required to do X number of events and for the National Series that is 2 plus the Finale. You are right, not everyone can do 2 events and a trip to Kansas (I could not last year), but it is not based on attending every event. Even our local events take this into account and you are only required to do 75% or so of the events for year end points. Anyway, I am not in favor of a series for tours (though I will do two tours this year...was going to do the now cancelled Salt Lake City). I feel that ProSolo works well for this. Randy Chase (see you all in Atwater) '91 MR2 CS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 19:26:26 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:24:10 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 9:00:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: << Silk purse out of a sow's ear. If that's how you feel, then precisely WHY are you wasting so much time bitching on team.net? You haven't been forced to compete in autox. Maybe you should go play with the "REAL" racers. You've certainly got my permission. Jay >> Why you so angry about life's toy department, Pal? Well, actually, I thank you for it. I have been getting so much agreement lately that I was beginning to wonder if I had lost my touch. Unless the 1st Amendment to the Constitution has been repealed while I wasn't looking, a fellow can speak his mind and put his opinions out there for all to see. You can call it "bitching" if you like. It doesn't take all that much time. How can it harm you? Are your arguements that weak? Is you ego that fragile? A tour series that awards a points championship, for reasons already stated, strikes me as a bit of pretentiousness. Some say that all the hotshoes in every class would show up for every event. Maybe. I'd have to see that. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 19:30:23 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: jemitchell@compuserve.com, RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:27:40 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points I just thought that it was a good idea(National Points) Seems Pro Solo has about the same deal, Right? If you drive a Mod Car shut up? Pro Solo seems to be tailored for production cars(Wrong here?) Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 19:35:39 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:34:30 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 9:16:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randyc2@home.com writes: << You must not understand how ProSolo works. >> I think this was about something different. Points for Tour events. There was not a specific plan presented. I have observed a couple of Tour events. I have read results from some Tour events. It might be fun to go all over the country and run in a bunch of autoxes and at the end of the year say "look at me, I am the champ". Do it. Have the series. Get the trophy. Be ready to hear about it if the prize in a given class is awarded for just showing up. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 19:54:21 1999 From: Randy Chase To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:56:10 -0700 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/24/99 9:16:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randyc2@home.com > writes: > > << You must not understand how ProSolo works. >> > > I think this was about something different. Points for Tour events. There > was not a specific plan presented. Right. I was just pointing out that it is almost a sure thing that ANY plan would not require attendance at every event. That was your plan, and I am telling you that this is not how it is done now in ProSolo and also would not be done in a Tour Series. > I have observed a couple of Tour events. > I have read results from some Tour events. But you have not run one? Why? > It might be fun to go all over the country and run in a bunch of autoxes > and at the end of the year say "look at me, I am the champ". > Do it. Have the series. Get the trophy. That pretty well sums up ProSolo now. 8) > Be ready to hear about it if the prize in a given class is awarded for > just showing up. I would love to hear about any series that had contigency money in it AND anyone could just show up in and win. I have been trying very hard to do well in my class and it's not getting easier nationally. I could go for at least one easy win. 8) So anyways Ray, I think I get your point. And if the national office required every competitor to attend every event, then I agree with you. It's crazy. Hardly anyone would/could do it. I am just saying it will not work that way. Randy Chase '91 MR2 CS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 19:57:06 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jan Schmidt" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:47:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? >Hello list >I have pondered this very question myself. Wouldnt it be neat if SP wheel rules were the same as the Prepared? Then if you raced your car in SP for a couple of years and decided to jump to P you would already have the correct wheels and wouldnt have to spend another grand for a new set of wheels. This would help bring back a little economy into our"grassroots" sport. If you retired from autocrossing you would have both the P and SP group to sell your used wheels to. Same thing if you continued to autocross but got a different car. Pardon my economy mindset, my motto is"budget racing" although I am sure I didnt invent this Phrase. >Bill Schmidt cs rx7 KC region ======================= Simple enough Bill. Just buy the appropriate Prepared class legal wheels and run 'em in SP. Nobody's making the SP guys buy those gawd awful wide wheels. (unless they really wanna win. ;^) Why change the rules when there's already a provision that let's you buy whatever size wheels you want to in SP? See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 20:29:23 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:28:36 -0700 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > Why you so angry about life's toy department, Pal? No anger. Those were honest questions. You have a low opinion of Solo II, yet you obviously spend a lot of time bitching about the elements in it that you don't like, almost as if you have a similarly low opinion of yourself. It doesn't make sense so far, and I was hoping you could clear it up for us. > Unless the 1st Amendment to the Constitution has been repealed while I > wasn't looking, a fellow can speak his mind and put his opinions out there > for all to see. No argument here. > You can call it "bitching" if you like. Lots of what you've had to say fits that description very well. > A tour series that awards a points championship, for reasons already > stated, strikes me as a bit of pretentiousness. Like, say, Regional year-end class championship trophies? Where's the pretense? you can just as easily claim that the class winners at the Solo II Nationals are just being rewarded for showing up, and that lots of potential winners don't have the time or money to make the trip to Topeka. In Solo II, like any other sport, you can't win if you don't play. And if you don't play, you're in a really poor position to speak disparagingly of those who do play and win. If, as you say, you just want to do some half-assed "racing," what's to stop you showing up at your local Solo II events and doing that? Why does it bother you so much that other folks are trying harder than you are? > Some say that all the > hotshoes in every class would show up for every event. You wouldn't have to run every event to win in any points system that is likely to ever be implemented, any more than you have to run every event to win your class in Pro Solo or in your local region. I'm not really taking a position on the idea of a Tour points series myself, as it would have minimal effect on me. I can't see any harm in it, however. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 20:43:53 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: MBD96@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:42:38 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Cycling G-Forces Bruce Dickey writes: << Just a question... How are the tires 'heat cycled' at the Tire Rack? >> I'm curious about this as well. CHD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 20:50:55 1999 From: "D. Barry Stubbs" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:50:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat Cycling G-Forces << Just a question... How are the tires 'heat cycled' at the Tire Rack? >> http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/heatcycletech.htm D. Barry Stubbs http://surf.to/z24man (912) 745-9429 AOL IM: thez24man z24man@earthlink.net ICQ #5409648 #101GS Atlanta Region SoloII 88 2.8 5Spd White Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 21:17:25 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "john matthews" , Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:07:14 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars From: john matthews >I can tell you >definitively..... > >Any car roof can and will collapse if you roll it! Never rolled a SAAB 96, have you? Phil "Done it too many times, never even touched the roll bar" Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 21:17:30 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Chan, Albert (GEP)" , Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:18:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Corrections to Previous Post FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility -----Original Message----- From: Chan, Albert (GEP) To: 'team.net' Date: Saturday, April 24, 1999 10:16 AM Subject: Corrections to Previous Post FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility >* The protest that Pete Larson wrote on tires was at the 1988 Nationals, >and not the 1990 Nationals. Protest was thrown out since the protested tires >was of a tire model introduced by April 30th, and therefore were legal. >* As Josh mentioned in his post, the only two criteria for a new model >was tread pattern or model designation by the tire manufacturer. Construction >was not included in the rule. Wasn't "Characterization as 'new' by manufacturer" also given as an indicator of a new tire after April 30? Or did that language come later? Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 21:18:03 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "The Christianson's" , Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:04:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Required Stickers From: The Christianson's To: autox@autox.team.net >Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:53:02 -0500 >From: "Phil Ethier" >Subject: Re: May 1999 Cover > >>>I spent a lot of >>>money on my paint job a week before nationals. The scca in its ultimate >>>wisdom said I had to place the decals on my brand new paint right in the >>>center of one of the flames. Upon removal, I managed to pull the clear >>>coat off > >I agree with Phil on this. I didn't write that. (Perhaps everyone who knows me realized right away that I never spent a lot of money on a paint job in my life.) I was quoting Todd. My suggestion to Todd was magnetic or static backing rather than sticking the decal directly on his new paint. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 22:26:15 1999 From: Paul and Meredith Brown To: Josh Sirota , autox@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:23:55 -0600 Subject: Re:The tire thing^n - now becoming competition tire history >Everyone, > >I just dug out my '89 rulebook. Can't find '88 (if I ever had one -- >that was my first year). > >Section 11.3.B is marked with a change bar, so this may be the first >time it >appeared: > No tire model will be approved for competition during the rest of > the year after April 30 of each calendar year. ... A tire model > will normally be determined by the designation in the Tire Guide. > However, any of the following changes or similar changes (as > determined by the Solo Events Board) will also be considered to > represent a new tire model for eligibility purposes, even if the > designation does not change: Change of tread pattern at either full > or partial tread depth; characterization by the manufacturer or > distributor of a tire as "new" after April 30. > >So there you go. That rule was in effect in 1989. My 1991 book appears >to have the same wording (though it's in chapter 13 then). Can't find >1990. That rule came about due to the adventures in 1988 where they changed the tire completely mid-year (I think it was shortly before nationals) from the old street Comp T/A tread pattern (and I suspect carcass and everything) to the 204/206-generation tires, with the assymetrical tread. They still called it the "Comp T/A R1". Protests were filed, and after much gnashing of teeth it was eventually determined that the way the rule was written (I don't have the '88 rule book handy, sorry) that since they kept the same name, it was legal. I believe a consideration in that was that a finding against the tire would hurt a large number of competitors. This was the first tire BFG had readily available to the masses which was really competitive - a significant evolutionary change. The situation in '89 was that they kept the tread pattern, but changed compounding (REALLY hard to enforce since when you get right down to it no two tires are EXACTLY the same there, particularly if they are from different dates; heck, the same tire will be different AT different dates) and the carcass. But you may notice that they were smart enough NOT to designate it as "new". So we had rule which was not well written replaced by another rule which was not well written. I believe that after this, they spent some time talking to tire people about how to write the rule.... Paul and Meredith Brown MR2: "Not the easiest car in the world to work on" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sat Apr 24 22:41:07 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:39:49 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/24/99 10:38:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: <> What kind of psuedo-psychoanalytical horse manure [my wife wouldn't let me use the "s" word] is that? My opinion of solo2 is that it is a nice little substitute for racing. Racing costs a heck of a lot of money and solo2, if a bunch of wannabe racers would let it, could be a place for cheapskates to compete without building or buying a pile of racer equipment-- including tires that have rubber that disappears rapidly. As it is solo is getting expensive enough that you could spend a little more and race for real. When I think of racing I am not just thinking of SCCA stuff. You can stay close to home and run 20 lappers at the local oval for very little more than it would take to compete in a national solo series. And without spending huge amounts of traveling money to win a phony championship. My opinion of myself is...well, modesty forbids that I come right out and say it. If my ability as a driver is the question I would wait for those against whom I have competed over the years to speak. If you can get them to speak. R.E. ............................................................................. <> A series spread all over the country would be one that very few people would actually be free to compete in for more than a few events. Very few. You'd be getting a championship trophy for Being There. R.E. ................................................................. <> No harm at all. It wouldn't bother me a bit. Being a winner in it wouldn't impress me either. Who cares whether I'm impressed? Who would it impress? The Being There Championship. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 03:43:26 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 04:41:36 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars John Matthews wrote: >I can tell you >definitively..... > >Any car roof can and will collapse if you roll it! Phil Ethier answered: > > Never rolled a SAAB 96, have you? Or a Fiero? G From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 06:03:49 1999 From: Jay Mitchell To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:02:48 -0700 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > My opinion of solo2 is that it is a nice > little substitute for racing. OK, so you can be Walter Mitty then. Vroom, vroom. I hear there are some pretty good computer racing simulation games. You might wanta try one of those, too. ;<) > Racing costs a heck of a lot of money and > solo2, if a bunch of wannabe racers would let it, could be a place for > cheapskates to compete without building or buying a pile of racer equipment-- You can do that now. Why do you keep implying that someone is forcing you to spend piles of money on Solo II? You always have the option of showing up in your daily driver on your street rubber. It appears to me that what bothers you is that you won't win if you do that, and that you just don't like all these folks who, well, TRY so damn hard: "If only everybody weren't so darn MOTIVATED, then I'd win more. Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. Everybody just cool it a little bit and spend less money and don't take this all so seriously, and then I can win. After all, it's just a half-assed wannabe racer substitute, for crying out loud. But I don't wanna win just because I was there. You all gotta try a LITTLE bit so I can feel good about my trophy." That seems to sum up your attitude pretty well. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 06:13:18 1999 From: Jeff Cashmore To: autox list Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:17:25 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points "If there was nationwide ranking, people that really dig championships would be forced to attend events across the country. " Not if it was set up like the current Pro Solo system, best 2 out of first 3 events, (3/4?). We can revisit this question if Pro ever goes away. -- Jeff Cashmore http://www.execpc.com/~cashmo/wai.html = Wisconsin Autocrossers Inc homepage From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 06:19:17 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: autox list Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:18:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again It's best not to assume that every destroyed truck tire you see along the highway is from a recap. It's my understanding that the primary cause of catastrophic failure of a dual-mounted tire is underinflation of its mate. That is, if you let one of the duals go soft, the one adjacent to it must carry more load, causing overheating and eventual failure. Once one tire goes, the other is even more likely to fail. This can happen whether the tire is bought new, regrooved, or recapped. Another note: Recaps get many more miles (2x?) wear before requiring replacement, compared with new truck tires. Chuck (I'm just a truck driver, I don't play one on TV) Schultz PS: NASCAR fans _are_ crazy. I had a great time watching yesterday's IROC and BUSCH races at Talladega, then spent more time driving the 10 miles home than the total amount of time the two races took to run. I'll watch at home, next time, thank you! Better yet, I'll run the VCR and go autocross, instead! ------------------------- scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > > > > Author: Chris Sims wrote: > > > >Does anybody make performance retreads now? It seems like a good > >idea. . . > > > Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the truck tires on the > highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't put recaps on any car. > > Scott Phelps > Team SOL #1 > 88 Yugo GVX EP -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 06:37:55 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: Craig Blome Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:36:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Probably a very good one if you're the CEO of Bandag. See Jan 1988 note on their web page: http://www.bandag.com/facts/home.html Craig Blome wrote: > > I wonder what sort of contingency program Bandag has > to offer... :-) > > Craig Blome -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 09:01:14 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:03:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Craig Blome wrote: > --- scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com wrote: > > Author: Chris Sims wrote: > > > > >Does anybody make performance retreads now? It > > seems like a good > > >idea. . . > > > > Not allowed in SCCA......... Look at all the > > truck tires on the > > highway, and you'll understand why. I wouldn't > > put recaps on any car. > > > > I was driving behind an 18 wheeler outside Little Rock > once when a retread delaminated. Big brown cloud and > KABOOM, followed by tread snakes raining down from the > heavens. *Very* scary experience. I understand why > SCCA doesn't allow 'em. Besides Pat Kelly personal testimony, I'll add the following data point: There is a new racing series in England that uses spec recapped tires on 924Ss to prove their durability. No problems thus far. Another data point: The only 'decent' treaded vintage race tire that is still being made is the Dunlop. But they are so expensive many vintage racers recap them. No problems thus far. If the DOT allows them for use on semis then I think we can certainly trust them at autocrossing speeds. Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 09:19:12 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:21:17 -0400 Subject: Tire Compounds I think we all need to consider another angle on this one. Tire vendors are used to providing racing compounds for specific environments. This is something they do at nearly every pro racing event. I think the current autocross compounds were created to do their best at Nationals on brushed concrete. The issue is then one of consistency. Should the tire vendors be forced to keep the same compopund the entire year? And can you then legally use another year tire? Good grief. Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 09:44:52 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:43:33 EDT Subject: Ray Again. Delete if you can't stand it. In a message dated 4/25/99 8:02:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jemitchell@compuserve.com writes: << Why do you keep implying that someone is forcing you to spend piles of money on Solo II? You always have the option of showing up in your daily driver on your street rubber... It appears to me that what bothers you is that you won't win if you do that, and that you just don't like all these folks who, well, TRY so damn hard: "If only everybody weren't so darn MOTIVATED, then I'd win more. Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. Everybody just cool it a little bit and spend less money and don't take this all so seriously, and then I can win. After all, it's just a half-assed wannabe racer substitute, for crying out loud. But I don't wanna win just because I was there. You all gotta try a LITTLE bit so I can feel good about my trophy." That seems to sum up your attitude pretty well. Jay>> Dear Dr. Sigmund Freud a.k.a. Jay Mitchell Thank you for the additional psychoanalysis which further explains what I was really saying when I actually said what I said. I don't expect someone who disagrees with me to remember what I have previously said nor do I expect an accurate interpretation of what I have said most recently. It is so much easier to take a line or two out of context, apply a self-serving meaning that is not in the actual words and then have a convenient straw-man to knock over with irrelevant debating points. There are, it seems to me, two parties at work in autocrossing. One of them is the party of "let's make it bigger, more expensive, more a national sport, more important and like a real form of bigtime racing". The other party to which I belong [and which is losing] says "autocross is a small amateur form of motorsport which gives people a place to enjoy some competition without a lot of expense or elaborate machinery--let's work toward keeping it that way and keeping it local". At least provide a place in the "big" events for the street-tired tightwads to play among themselves. In our area there are, for a number of reasons, fewer and fewer autocrosses each year. A date or two is given up for a "pro" event or a Tour event from time to time. I know a local Region or hosting club can install a street-tire class if they like. To lobby for that, one would need to join every club or Region within 200miles and devote one's life to lobbying to get such a class. It would make life so much simpler for members of the Keep-it-Simple Party if the place for us was written into the national SCCA rules and classes that the autocross world, including clubs that are not even affiliated with SCCA, seems destined to accept and use locally. [Street-tire classes that use the @#*&! PAX are another subject about which more at another time.] That is essentially what I'm saying. More in-depth analysis of my words could be amusing but not enlightening. Everybody cool it and don't spend so much money so that I --or anyone and everyone -- can COMPETE, not necessarily win, with the same minimal investment of money and preparation. Rules pushing in that direction rather than in the bigger-more-costly direction is all I'm talking about. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 09:50:50 1999 From: "Alex Quirk" To: "Team. net" , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:48:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Russ Hoyle Memorial Solo II Tomorrow 8-( Ben, Is this the same Russ Hoyle that used to live in Dayton, OH area? (and used to compete in the Evansville Nat'l Tour / Freedom Festival / Thunder event?) The same person that for the much of the past decade gave many ASP competitiors in CenDiv lots to think about with his undersized engined 911...I think it was a 2.4 or 2.2? I can't remember... If it is, I can't express my sorrow...but please send my condolences to his family! Thanks! Alex Quirk St Marys PA vquirk@penn.com '81 Chevy Chevette DSP '83 Pontiac 1000 DSP '89 Pontiac (YOU'VE got to be kidding!) Safari SW ESP "enjoy what you drive and DRIVE IT WELL!!!" <<< Russ's slogan too!!! and he DID!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:43:28 -0400 From: Benjamin D Thatcher Subject: Russ Hoyle Memorial Solo II Tomorrow The Atlanta SCCA NOPI Solo II Series event, Sunday, April 25 has been named the "Russ Hoyle Memorial Solo II" in honor of the fallen ASP Porsche 911 #3 ace who succumbed to cancer, Thursday, April 22nd. The weather is suposed to be in the mid 70s with partly cloudy skies. You can still register on-line today at . Please note the following run/work order: Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO, BP, CP Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, ST, STR, STU Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, EP, DP, KMJr., Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, KM The following run/work schedule will be followed: April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) May 16 Points #4: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green June26 School AMS June 27 Points #5: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow July 25 Points #6: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue August 14 Points #7: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red August 15 Points #8: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green August 28-29 SEDIV Perry, GA (must be an SCCA member) September 18-19 AMS NOPI Nationals October 10 Points #9: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow October 24 Points #10: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue November 7 ChampionofChampions AMS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 10:43:08 1999 From: Jamie or Trisha Ridenour To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:36:52 -0400 Subject: Autocross it's a disease Ok I'm completely sick. I read the following and it took me a second to figure out he meant High School not H Stock. >Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:37:21 -0700 (PDT) >From: Steve Bearden >Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again > >Hi All, >I'm a digest reader, so this is kinda late. > >In the mid '60s I was a poor HS student and the early >'70s a poor sailor buying recapped tires exclusively >for my cars due to cost mailto:ridenour@perigee.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 11:15:32 1999 From: Spanj@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:14:10 EDT Subject: Street Touring In Peru!! Lookin for any and all competition at Ind. Pro Solo. In the National Series Class Street touring, street tire class, I would like to see a full class, so if you know of any body with some possible pimp daddy rides, encourage them to enter the event, Also the Petersburhg Pro, Harrisburgh Pro, Etc. Yours Truly, Rob Sprandle VP. RatFink Ind. 93 Probe Gt 1/4 Pimp Daddy Ride From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 13:01:23 1999 From: Josh Sirota To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:56:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Ray Again. Delete if you can't stand it. RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > There are, it seems to me, two parties at work in autocrossing. One of > them is the party of "let's make it bigger, more expensive, more a national > sport, more important and like a real form of bigtime racing". > The other party to which I belong [and which is losing] says "autocross > is a small amateur form of motorsport which gives people a place to enjoy > some competition without a lot of expense or elaborate machinery--let's work > toward keeping it that way and keeping it local". Ray, I agree with the characterization that there are two types of people. The SCCA caters towards the former (well, except for the "let's make it more expensive" part). Pretty much every other club in the country that stages autocrosses (and there are at least as many of those as their are SCCA regions) cater towards the latter. Go find one of those if that's the type of person you are. A huge majority of this mailing list are SCCA members, so naturally the prevailing attitude of this mailing list tends to match that first goal. > At least provide a place in the "big" events for the street-tired > tightwads to play among themselves. Or, just don't participate in those events if you don't want to play that game. What's so hard about that? > In our area there are, for a number of > reasons, fewer and fewer autocrosses each year. A date or two is given up for > a "pro" event or a Tour event from time to time. I know a local Region or > hosting club can install a street-tire class if they like. To lobby for that, > one would need to join every club or Region within 200miles and devote one's > life to lobbying to get such a class. It would make life so much simpler for > members of the Keep-it-Simple Party if the place for us was written into the > national SCCA rules and classes that the autocross world, including clubs > that are not even affiliated with SCCA, seems destined to accept and use > locally. [Street-tire classes that use the @#*&! PAX are another subject > about which more at another time.] Oh, I get it. You want one club to cater to both types of people. If you can create a set of rules that accomplish it (remember, there are all of those national racer wannabees who will exploit the rules to their advantage, probably pissing off the local I-couldn't-care-less people), by all means, right it up and send it in to the SEB. Or better yet, join the SEB and make it happen yourself. > That is essentially what I'm saying. More in-depth analysis of my words > could be amusing but not enlightening. > Everybody cool it and don't spend so much money so that I --or anyone > and everyone -- can COMPETE, not necessarily win, with the same minimal > investment of money and preparation. Rules pushing in that direction rather > than in the bigger-more-costly direction is all I'm talking about. But you understand that many, many SCCA members don't really want rules that lead us in that direction, right? Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 13:44:34 1999 From: Clemens Burger To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:11:56 -0500 Subject: ProSolo Sorry if this was covered before, but I subscribe only occasionally. When I subscribe I spend more time reading the postings than I can afford. I am contemplating on what to do on May 15/16. I have approximately three options: 1. Staying at home => not really an option. 2. Going to a regional event in Columbus/IN on Sunday to tear up my tires => not a bad option, just a lot of tire wear. 3. Go to the ProSolo => that's what this message is about I am wondering if it is worth going for me. My first and only ProSolo was in Columbus in '97. And I had no fun whatsoever. If I remember right, I paid $85 for the entry fee plus some for the decals and didn't even get close to the 12 "guaranteed" runs because of the rain. I stood in the rain for one hour as a corner worker before the first car came out because the timing lights were not working, and Howard Duncan was in no hurry to fix them. My run group was lining up while I was still working on course, and when I got in my car to drive, my hands were so cold that I could barely turn the steering wheel, although I had worn gloves while working. O.k., many of these things could have happened at any other event, but if I go to the one in Peru, it will be only because somebody talked me into it. So there's the question: Is it worthwhile for me as an average drive to go to Peru and run the NATIONALSERIES (uuuhh!), i.e. considering the cost/fun (speak: driving) ratio ? Although I read a couple of the articles in SportsCar, I don't really know a whole lot about the new format. Is the new format similar to the old one? How does the Challenge work now? There's barely any info on the SCCA Web site. Therefore I got more questions. What's the entry fee now? Can I buy the decal kit at the event ($25, right?)? When's the deadline? I downloaded the entry form from the Web site, but can't open it with my Acrobat Reader (Version 2.1). Is it the file or my program? I am anxious to see if anybody can make me go to this thing (or stay away). Clemens From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 15:43:51 1999 From: Hottvr@aol.com To: jss@marimba.com, RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:41:03 EDT Subject: Re: Ray Again. Delete if you can't stand it. All I said was that I tought all SCCA events(Including National Tours) Should be scored with some form of a points system. But it seems to have turned into a Hand grenade throwing contest. I agree with Jeff Cashmore on this one score it like Pro Solo 3/6 or 4/6 or something. Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 15:51:13 1999 From: Randy Chase To: Hottvr@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:53:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Ray Again. Delete if you can't stand it. Hottvr@aol.com wrote: > > All I said was that I tought all SCCA events(Including National Tours) Should > be > scored with some form of a points system. Yep. Not a bad question/idea, one worthy of being considered. I think the present system of nats being determined by one event has a downside. It can tend to involve more fortune than skill, *or* we are saying that the best in this sport can make it happen all at one event, which is what I think we (as a club) are generally saying. > But it seems to have turned into a > Hand grenade throwing contest. Not really. One side is tossing rocks. 8) I agree with Jeff Cashmore on this one score > it like > Pro Solo 3/6 or 4/6 or something. Of course! Randy Chase '91 MR2 CS '99 Miata for Atwater (BS) 8-) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 16:20:47 1999 From: Alan Pozner To: Josh Sirota Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:12:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Again. Delete if you can't stand it. Here's what it comes down to "I wanta be fastest and I don't want to spend any money whaaaaa!!!" This is America pal. Here might makes right and the more you spend the better everyone likes you. Move to China where they race paper sloops in rice paddy ditches. No cost and very close competition. ( Oh wait a minute... I forgot there is this new trick paper that you can only get........) Alan "Tongue planted firmly in cheek" Pozner Josh Sirota wrote: > > RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > > There are, it seems to me, two parties at work in autocrossing. One of > > them is the party of "let's make it bigger, more expensive, more a national > > sport, more important and like a real form of bigtime racing". > > The other party to which I belong [and which is losing] says "autocross > > is a small amateur form of motorsport which gives people a place to enjoy > > some competition without a lot of expense or elaborate machinery--let's work > > toward keeping it that way and keeping it local". > > Ray, > > I agree with the characterization that there are two types of people. > > The SCCA caters towards the former (well, except for the "let's make it > more expensive" part). Pretty much every other club in the country that > stages autocrosses (and there are at least as many of those as their are > SCCA regions) cater towards the latter. > > Go find one of those if that's the type of person you are. > > A huge majority of this mailing list are SCCA members, so naturally the > prevailing attitude of this mailing list tends to match that first goal. > > > At least provide a place in the "big" events for the street-tired > > tightwads to play among themselves. > > Or, just don't participate in those events if you don't want to play > that game. What's so hard about that? > > > In our area there are, for a number of > > reasons, fewer and fewer autocrosses each year. A date or two is given up for > > a "pro" event or a Tour event from time to time. I know a local Region or > > hosting club can install a street-tire class if they like. To lobby for that, > > one would need to join every club or Region within 200miles and devote one's > > life to lobbying to get such a class. It would make life so much simpler for > > members of the Keep-it-Simple Party if the place for us was written into the > > national SCCA rules and classes that the autocross world, including clubs > > that are not even affiliated with SCCA, seems destined to accept and use > > locally. [Street-tire classes that use the @#*&! PAX are another subject > > about which more at another time.] > > Oh, I get it. You want one club to cater to both types of people. If > you can create a set of rules that accomplish it (remember, there are > all of those national racer wannabees who will exploit the rules to > their advantage, probably pissing off the local I-couldn't-care-less > people), by all means, right it up and send it in to the SEB. Or better > yet, join the SEB and make it happen yourself. > > > That is essentially what I'm saying. More in-depth analysis of my words > > could be amusing but not enlightening. > > Everybody cool it and don't spend so much money so that I --or anyone > > and everyone -- can COMPETE, not necessarily win, with the same minimal > > investment of money and preparation. Rules pushing in that direction rather > > than in the bigger-more-costly direction is all I'm talking about. > > But you understand that many, many SCCA members don't really want rules > that lead us in that direction, right? > > Josh From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 18:06:52 1999 From: Sam & Greg Scharnberg To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:03:00 -0500 Subject: Solotime Midwest Division Solo II Championship Series Postage was free so why not forward this without Mark's permission. Sam Greetings All! The Midwest Division Solotime Series Web Page has been updated.  Here is a list of the changes that were made: The Calendar of events has been updated Entry forms can now be downloaded in PDF format Entry information for the first two events can be downloaded in PDF format The first newsletter can be downloaded in PDF format The Solotime Web Page is located at http://www.nrscca.com/solotime.htm. Speaking of the newsletter...The first issue of the Solotime newsletter is at the printer.  It will be mailed Monday night.  If you intend to download the newsletter from the web page and don't want a printed copy, please reply to this message (with your name) saying you don't want a printed copy. I must have the reply by 6:00pm Monday night, April 26th or I will send you a newsletter. We are experimenting with this to see how many people would rather download the event information, newsletters, results, etc. etc.  instead of getting printed copies.  The goal of course is to save money and time.  Let us know what you think. Thanks! Mark E. Walker Solotime Series Editor mwalker@dvti.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 18:46:47 1999 From: "Chris and Per Schroeder" To: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:48:28 -0500 Subject: RE: Celica GT vs ST Figured I'd give some hard data points to my email of yesterday. surface: clean, smooth new asphalt, quite grippy temperature: mid sixties course design, flowing, long, with very few kinks to slow cars down... After three runs, I had FTD index in the Celica GT, having about a .6 second lead over Jeff Cashmore in the Celica ST. However, by the 5th run, Jeff ended up sneaking past me by .05. Meanwhile, Jim Harn (one of the whiners :-) also snuck up to within 1 tenth of my time. Again...it's a course dependent issue. The ST is better on courses like today's Milwaukee Region event..the GT is better on "YeeeHawwww" courses that have tight turns followed by long straights. Next weekend: Gforces..... Per Opinions expressed do not neccessarily reflect those of the SCAC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 19:48:45 1999 From: Rocky Entriken To: "The Christianson's" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:47:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Required Stickers > the only people that ever see the decal > advertising the sport are people that are competing and obviously know > about the sport. Actually, it is as much for exposure as happens when your photo is published somewhere as anything. That is why they are specific about placement > And because of our insurance we have to discourage people > from dropping by and watching, and possibly getting interested. This is a side issue, but no longer true any more. Current guidelines exist to ENcourage people to drop by and watch, but that in so doing we cover ourselves by making sure they are on the waiver. Also that we don't present it as a spectator thing, but as a "come see what we are about" thing -- a bit of semantic gymnastics the insurance folk allege offers some level of protection. But anyway... the basic stickers-at-nationals thing is a pesky issue, but not insurmountable. I find it a mild irritant that the official stickers have to be such high-tack things that want to adhere so tightly I could not make it any more secure than if I pop-riveted the dang things to the car. But I don't, heh, heh. There is alwayws the old trick of waxing the car where the sticker will go. I carry a bottle of liquid Turtle Wax in my pit gear just for that purpose. I just wax that little spot where the sticker goes, is all. That is, if I am actually going to stick the sticker on using its own stickum. Lately, I don't, heh, heh. Scotch Plastic Tape. Write down the name. It is great stuff. It comes in a variety of colors, one of which almost perfectly matches the blue of my car. I use it to change my numbers, or to attach things that must be attached temporarily. Last year, I took my blue Scotch Plastic Tape, cut a couple of 3" strips, and taped the sticker to the car with one strip of tape at each end. Never took the backing off the sticker. I even got clever ... the sticker had a black border which I covered with the tape, so I took my black Magic Marker and re-drew the border over the tape. From 20 feet away, you'd never know. In fact, I forgot alll about the stickers, and left them on the car all winter. Just pulled them off two weeks ago. No problem. That Scotch Plastic Tape comes off very easily. It is NOT high-tack like the sticker is. where do you get this marvelous 3M product? Hardware stores. discount stores. Five & dimes. It comes in 3/4" and 1.5" rolls. I always carry several in both the blue and yellow of my car. Oh, and after I pulled the stickers off my car, then I went and stuck one on my garage wall where I have this collection of Nationals stickers. I don't intend to remove those anytime soon, so I "save" the sticker's stickum for that. One other option ... when you are at Nationals, Solotime is there also. Go get some magnet material from them if you want to do the magnet thing. (assuming magnets work for you). \ --Rocky Entriken From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 20:23:27 1999 From: "Tim Malzahn" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:21:06 -0500 Subject: Lug Nuts and such Hi all, Going back to a subject debated a few weeks ago regarding lug nuts and wheel studs and torquing them down every race. I had a race today and on the last run, turning left felt kinda funny, like a whumpa-whumpa sound from the front. I thought to myself, "gee, it must be hot tires or tires rubbing on the inner fender or something." No such luck. When I was changing the tires back to the streets, I could not get one of the right front lug nuts loose. So I did not change one of the tires for the trip back home. When I got home, I ended up shearing off the wheel stud trying to remove the lug nut. I think what may have happened is when I was torquing the nuts down this morning, I weakened one of the studs enough so that it actually broke sometime in competition during the day (last run.) The stud broken is under warranty and I can have it replaced for no charge. My question is should I go ahead and get all of the others replaced since I already had one fail? Also, if I have them replaced, any ideas on how much it could cost? Tim Malzahn 97 Integra GS-R Sedan From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 20:35:41 1999 From: "Tim Malzahn" To: autox@autox.team.net, cjmccan@ilstu.edu Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:33:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Integra autoXing The He-Man technique does come in handy once in while. However, proper heel and toe downshifting will really help you out with the Integra. I have been practicing for about a year and am finally comfortable using it during competition runs. If you can find it, fellow team.netter Phil Ethier has written a very good article on the technique. (You usually can find it posted somewhere, use altavista or another search engine.) Another good source is the book called "Bob Bondurant on High Performance Driving." The technique is explained in words and pictures. Tim Malzahn 97 Integra GS-R >>> "Chris McCann" 04/23/99 01:05AM >>> I have a '95 GS-R and am just a beginner as of now...just did a McKamey school.... ...and myself (and a much more seasoned driver with a '98 GS-R) were reccomended by many just to leave it in 2nd ... i suppose it would depend on the course, but in 2nd gear i was hitting the fat part of the powerband just when i was coming to a brake point...though it IS a royal pain to get it in 1st... is there trick to that shift? (Besides the He-Man technique...) It seems really tough to do, especially without upsetting the car... I also want to start messing with tire pressure and alignment later in the season but am looking for some (street tires) starting points (so I'm not screwing around with that too much when i should be learning to drive...) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 20:47:12 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: Jeff Winchell Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:44:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? Jeff Winchell wrote: > Mark Sirota wrote: >> Because Prepared is not a progression from Street Prepared. Both are >> different progressions from Stock. > > Where it isn't, it should be. Why? Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:00:38 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: "'team.net'" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:57:48 -0400 Subject: Re: FW: The tire thing^n and personal responsibility Josh Sirota wrote: > I just dug out my '89 rulebook. Can't find '88 (if I ever had one -- > that was my first year). > > Section 11.3.B is marked with a change bar, so this may be the first > time it appeared: In the 1988 rulebook, all of 11.3 is marked by a change bar. This is the first rulebook I have, so I don't know what it was before. I won't type the whole thing in unless you all beg me to, but suffice it to say that the following wording was new for 1989, and the rest was the same (unfortunately, I had 1988 and 1990, but can't find 1989, so I have to go by Josh's quoted text): > A tire model will normally be determined by the designation in > the Tire Guide. However, any of the following changes or > similar changes (as determined by the Solo Events Board) will > also be considered to represent a new tire model for eligibility > purposes, even if the designation does not change: Change of > tread pattern at either full or partial tread depth; > characterization by the manufacturer or distributor of a tire as > "new" after April 30. The 1988 book also includes 11.3.C: The model of tire must be listed in a 1981 or later edition of the Tire Guide, or otherwise be approved by the Solo Events Board. The tire model must have Department of Transportation approval. In 1990, this had changed to (but no change bar is included): The model of tire must be listed in a current or previous two years of the Tire Guide and Tread Design Guide, or otherwise be approved by the Solo Events Board. The tire model must have Department of Transportation approval. I assume this wording was new for 1989. So it looks like if the Salina- only version of the R1 came out in 1989, it was pushing the limits of a brand new rule. I therefore suspect it was 1988, but I seem to remember it pretty well, and 1988 was my first season (though I think the autox mailing list had already been formed, so maybe that's why I remember it so clearly). Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:09:23 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: Joshua Hadler Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:05:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again Joshua Hadler wrote: > Pat Kelly wrote: >> My question remains: Does the SCCA insurance carrier disallow >> retreads? > > Well, my understanding of the matter is that if it is a safety issue, > that makes it an insurance issue. Ah, but my understanding is that if it's called out by the insurance policy, it is marked as a mandatory rule in Section 1.1. The retread rule is not called out in 1.1, so my reading is that it must not be mentioned by the insurance policy, and therefore regions are free to allow retreads in any category -- but they're not legal in Stock or SP at Divisional, National Tour, or National Championship events. Of course, I too would like to actually see the insurance policy to confirm before I allowed them at one of our regional events... But right now, they appear to be legal in Prepared and Modified, even at Nationals. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:12:40 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Tim Malzahn" , , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:18:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Integra autoXing From: Tim Malzahn >The He-Man technique does come in handy once in while. However, proper heel and toe downshifting will really help you out with the Integra. > >I have been practicing for about a year and am finally comfortable using it during competition runs. If you can find it, fellow team.netter Phil Ethier has written a very good article on the technique. (You usually can find it posted somewhere, use altavista or another search engine.) Or ask me nicely and I will email it to you. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:18:32 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Tim Malzahn" , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:13:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Lug Nuts and such -----Original Message----- From: Tim Malzahn To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 10:06 PM Subject: Lug Nuts and such >When I was changing the tires back to the streets, I could not get one of the right front lug nuts loose. So I did not change one of the tires for the trip back home. When I got home, I ended up shearing off the wheel stud trying to remove the lug nut. > >I think what may have happened is when I was torquing the nuts down this morning, I weakened one of the studs enough so that it actually broke sometime in competition during the day (last run.) It's also possible you cross-threaded the lug nut while you were changing tires. Even when you swear you've been *really* careful, it happens sometimes. Properly torquing the lug nuts down shouldn't weaken the studs. The only evidence I can claim is years of changing tires two or three weekends a month using this method -- the only wheel stud failures I've ever had were due to cross-threaded lug nuts. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:21:30 1999 From: Popsracr@aol.com To: schroede@interaccess.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:56:38 EDT Subject: Re: Celica GT vs ST I wanted to add a few comments to Per's posting that some may find interesting. In a message dated 4/25/99 5:53:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, schroede@interaccess.com writes: > surface: clean, smooth new asphalt, quite grippy > temperature: mid sixties > course design, flowing, long, with very few kinks to slow cars down... Pretty cool course from Jeff Cashmore and Darryl Padberg. Loved the fast back slalom and the hard offsets and the neat combination of left-right transitions > After three runs, I had FTD index in the Celica GT, having about a .6 > second lead over Jeff Cashmore in the Celica ST. Being that fast it in three runs is very impressive. Quite a lot of fun racing with the "better talented than-me" drivers like Pat Washburn, Jeff Cashmore and Per Schroeder. > However, by the 5th run, Jeff ended up sneaking past me by .05. > Meanwhile, Jim Harn (one of the whiners :-) also snuck up to within 1 > tenth of my time. The strangest thing about my last run was how frustrated I was and counting all the mistakes I made. I came off that run thinking how lousy it was and thinking that I was slower than the previous run. I thought I had lost about 0.4 to 0.6 seconds easily. I had mistakenly thought I heard a 74.295 come over the announcement then finding out after coming off course from Jeff that it was a 73.295. After running a couple of 47.0"s prior to that, it made me think it was all I could do. Per's morning run at 73.2 got me thinking that I needed a 72.5 roughly to win based on the RTP index. Pat Washburn driving Jeff's car was also at 47.0 so I considered that to be good company. Pat had been having a tough time making adjustment to Jeff's car after experiencing my car the day before. Pat was impressed with the way my car drove and remarked at the Neon similarity. He found Jeff's car to be more unpredictable with the way it was so loose by comparison. > Again...it's a course dependent issue. The ST is better on courses like > today's Milwaukee Region event..the GT is better on "YeeeHawwww" courses > that have tight turns followed by long straights. > > Next weekend: Gforces..... > > Per > Opinions expressed do not neccessarily reflect those of the SCAC > OK so I'll conceed that in the right hands (not mine) the ST has the ability to be "competitive" with the GT in ES. With that in mind I can't wholeheartedly object with conviction the move proposal for the ST to move to ES. Yes I'll whine and moan and groan all day about it too. I don't like the idea of my ST going to ES land but for neat courses like we had today and the competition as it was will still get me to run with the fun Cheese heads. Mooooo power. See soon the new Pat Washburn bovine express. Jim From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:22:01 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:19:26 PDT Subject: wheels which ones? I have found A buyer for my current, wheels and tires, I'm ordering a new set of hoosiers, so I wan't to find a nice set of superlight wheels to go with the light new skins, I also wan't to have the legal extra 1/4 inch of offset built into the wheel, so I don't have to compromise with a spacer, any suggestions, I need 16x7's I beleive the stock is 35mm offset so I guess I want 42mm offset. Right? thanks Jeff Lloyd From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:34:21 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "George Ryan" , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:40:28 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars From: George Ryan To: autox@autox.team.net >John Matthews wrote: > >>I can tell you >>definitively..... >> >>Any car roof can and will collapse if you roll it! > >Phil Ethier answered: >> >> Never rolled a SAAB 96, have you? > >Or a Fiero? Have you rolled Fiero cars on several occasions? I have rolled SAAB 96 cars in ice races on three occasions. Once was the second occasion for the same car, and it was dandy. In each case, the car had a roll bar. In none of the cases did the roof collapse enough to touch the roll bar. The only reason I brought it up (Team.Net veterans will groan, "Yet again!") is that Johns "definite" statement that any car roof will collapse if the car is rolled is simply untrue. There are many different car designs out there. Some of them are capable of taking a serious hit without collapsing. And they are not all new cars. The first SAAB I had, which I rolled violently on two occasions, was a 1963 car. SAAB once took a 99, turned it upside-down and dropped it from a height of seven feet onto a concrete slab. It didn't even break any glass. Then they did the same thing to an Opel Manta. It flattened to the door handles. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:35:01 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Rocky Entriken" , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:22:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Required Stickers From: Rocky Entriken >the basic stickers-at-nationals thing is a pesky issue, but not insurmountable. >I find it a mild irritant that the official stickers have to be such high-tack >things that want to adhere so tightly I could not make it any more secure than >if I pop-riveted the dang things to the car. Another method is wipe the sticker against you bluejeans until it becomes low-tack. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:45:39 1999 From: "Chris Teague" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:47:42 -0700 Subject: Re: wheels which ones? Jeff, On most cars, the wheels are set toward the inside of the car, meaning that if you have a 35mm offset, and you want to increase the track by 7mm per side, you want a 28mm offset. If you go to 3 piece modulars, it may be difficult to get the EXACT 1/4" increase you are looking for, and that is the maximum. So be careful when you order if you want them to be legal. I have been happy with Complete Custom Wheel if Florida for custom 3 piece wheels at a good price. BBS, HRE, and Fikse can do the same thing for more $$$. Depending on the car, there may be 1 piece wheels that will do the same thing. Chris Teague AS M3/4 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey Lloyd To: Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 8:19 PM Subject: wheels which ones? > I have found A buyer for my current, wheels and tires, I'm ordering a > new set of hoosiers, so I wan't to find a nice set of superlight > wheels to go with the light new skins, I also wan't to have the legal > extra 1/4 inch of offset built into the wheel, so I don't have to > compromise with a spacer, any suggestions, I need 16x7's I beleive > the stock is 35mm offset so I guess I want 42mm offset. Right? > > thanks > Jeff Lloyd > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:46:49 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: pethier@isd.net, quad4fiero@webzone.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:47:45 PDT Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars Coming from someone who forgot the greasey side down rule, slipped up an enbankment, about 6 feet, up and over on the roof and both doors opened, the roof was pretty much dead but this was well above safe autocross speeds, this was an old BMW 325. Some cars are safe, others... well. Jeff > > >Have you rolled Fiero cars on several occasions? > >I have rolled SAAB 96 cars in ice races on three occasions. Once was the >second occasion for the same car, and it was dandy. In each case, the car >had a roll bar. In none of the cases did the roof collapse enough to touch >the roll bar. The only reason I brought it up (Team.Net veterans will >groan, "Yet again!") is that Johns "definite" statement that any car roof >will collapse if the car is rolled is simply untrue. There are many >different car designs out there. Some of them are capable of taking a >serious hit without collapsing. And they are not all new cars. The first >SAAB I had, which I rolled violently on two occasions, was a 1963 car. > >SAAB once took a 99, turned it upside-down and dropped it from a height of >seven feet onto a concrete slab. It didn't even break any glass. Then they >did the same thing to an Opel Manta. It flattened to the door handles. > >Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA >Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban >LOON, TCVWC, MAC >pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 21:49:26 1999 From: "Tim Malzahn" To: autox@autox.team.net, jamies@mrj.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:47:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Lug Nuts and such >>> "Jamie Sculerati" 04/25/99 10:13PM >>> >It's also possible you cross-threaded the lug nut while you were changing >tires. Even when you swear you've been *really* careful, it happens >sometimes. > >Properly torquing the lug nuts down shouldn't weaken the studs. The only >evidence I can claim is years of changing tires two or three weekends a >month using this method -- the only wheel stud failures I've ever had were >due to cross-threaded lug nuts. Good point. Maybe it was just "Operator Error." Tim Malzahn 97 Integra GS-R Sedan From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 22:07:52 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:03:00 -0700 Subject: Re: wheels which ones? Yup, assuming in your 16x7 example that you're starting with *positive* offset, and you're wanting to increase your track (you mentioned spacers) then positive offset will increase (in your example) from 35mm to 42mm, and your backspace dimension will be reduced from 66mm by the same delta. But of course, if in your example you *started* with negative offset (which my car and others have, and plenty of it) but still wanted a wider track, then the offset number would actually *fall* as you moved in the positive *direction*. My SVO, which has 16x7 wheels, has 45mm of *negative* offset, so an increase in track of 1/4" on a side (why bother) would cause my offset dimension to *fall* to 38mm negative. That's because *positive* offset is a measure of any amount that the centerline of the wheel width is on the *outside* of the wheel mounting surface (more than half the wheel is away from the car), and *negative* is that amount that the centerline is on the *inside* of the mounting surface (more than half of the wheel is towards the car). Confusing, huh? And it's the very abstract nature of offset ("do you *have* positive offset, and are you changing offset in the positive *direction*?") that makes *backspacing* an easier measure to use, at least for autox purposes (darned few wheels available with negative backspacing, though I'm sure someone will come with some examples). ;) I hitched my wagon to the SP star, and I run *two to four inches* more track front and/or rear on my Mustang. Now that's a change worth making (if you don't mind a little rubbing on the rear wheelwell lip when carrying passengers, when off the course). :) Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Lloyd To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 8:20 PM Subject: wheels which ones? >I have found A buyer for my current, wheels and tires, I'm ordering a >new set of hoosiers, so I wan't to find a nice set of superlight >wheels to go with the light new skins, I also wan't to have the legal >extra 1/4 inch of offset built into the wheel, so I don't have to >compromise with a spacer, any suggestions, I need 16x7's I beleive >the stock is 35mm offset so I guess I want 42mm offset. Right? > >thanks >Jeff Lloyd> From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 22:23:29 1999 From: Ed Sawyer To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 00:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wheel spacers - where to find them? Hi folks, I recently got some 15x7.5" 3-piece wheels for my 93 Prelude Si, and they are interfering with the calipers (the bolts that hold the halves together). I really want to keep these wheels, since they were a decent deal, and am looking for spacers to space them out about 1/2"... does anyone stock this type of thing or are they a custom-only sort of deal? FWIW, they would be 1/2" or so thick, 4x114.3mm bolt circle, about 67mm centerbore. Of course I'll need longer lug studs to go with these, but those should be a little easier to source (but more of a PITA to install). Thanks in advance for any info. -Ed Sawyer Waterville Valley, NH From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 22:40:52 1999 From: Loren Williams To: Phil Ethier Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:16:26 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars Phil Ethier wrote: > I have rolled SAAB 96 cars in ice races on three occasions. Once was the > second occasion for the same car, and it was dandy. Had a neighbor when I was in high school who drove a '73 Datsun B210. That car was rolled twice, on two separate occasions, on the same curve, by the same driver, in the same conditions (rain). A few minutes with a hammer and a new windshield was the only repair in either case. I still haven't convinced this guy to invest in a decent set of tires. I rolled a Spitfire once... it behaved a little more like the Manta you described. Thankfully, only one of the A-pillars folded! -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 23:14:33 1999 From: "msmith2" To: "autocross list" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:12:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? Why should you have to choose immediately upon leaving Stock? Why not make it finacially feasible to compete in SP, THEN Prepared without having to build a second car to do it? So far, what we have is: Everything legal in Stock is legal in SP. Also, anything legal in Prepared is legal in Modified. Seems that the already established pattern has been disrupted somewhere in between SP and Prepared. Consistancy, it's not just a good idea, it's DAMN convienient........... Mike >Jeff Winchell wrote: >> Mark Sirota wrote: >>> Because Prepared is not a progression from Street Prepared. Both are >>> different progressions from Stock. >> >> Where it isn't, it should be. > >Why? > >Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 23:18:01 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: RacerRay52@aol.com, "Team.Net" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:17:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Ray Again. Delete if you can't stand it. (long) RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > > There are, it seems to me, two parties at work in autocrossing. One of > them is the party of "let's make it bigger, more expensive, more a national > sport, more important and like a real form of bigtime racing". > The other party to which I belong [and which is losing] says "autocross > is a small amateur form of motorsport which gives people a place to enjoy > some competition without a lot of expense or elaborate machinery--let's work > toward keeping it that way and keeping it local". Yes, there are these two factions in autocorssing. No doubt about it. And there are many clubs in the country that put on autoxes. SCCA happens to be the biggest, and also happens to have created a national championship based for its membership. This is the single largest particpant attended motorsport in the country. There are reasons why the SCCA designs its rules around a national level format, and that's a big one. Locally, SCCA events are -encouraged- to create ways for the casual autoxer to participate. It really can't be that hard to get a street tire class started in your region. Lots of regions have done it already. > At least provide a place in the "big" events for the street-tired > tightwads to play among themselves. You've got a big contradiction here Ray. People who go the "BIG" events, want to do well. They've possibly traveled a very long way to play against the best they can find. Often this is the only way some people find competition in their classes. To them, the effort of traveling a long distance has made this at least a somewhat serious endevour. They will want to win, even if they know that they are incapable of doing so, they'll still want it. This "street-tires for national events because they are less expensive" argument has been shot down repeatedly. If someone wants to win, they will do what ever they can to do so. For some people that may very well mean buying the best street tire that's legal, shaving a set and mounting them on an extra set of wheels. We havn't created a cheaper class, just a different one. If your region is hosting a divisional event, talk to the event chair and organizers about installing a local points race in that event. Participants can either compete for the divisional trophy or for the local series points. It has been done before. As for a "Tour" or a "Pro", write a letter. But be prepared to be "out-spent" anyway by someone who -really- wants to win. > In our area there are, for a number of > reasons, fewer and fewer autocrosses each year. A date or two is given up for > a "pro" event or a Tour event from time to time. I know a local Region or > hosting club can install a street-tire class if they like. To lobby for that, > one would need to join every club or Region within 200miles and devote one's > life to lobbying to get such a class. Ok. So why not do it? If you're so concerned about diminishing number of events in your region, why not go to a few other events around the area? To have that many differnt clubs in a 200mile area is great! Consider yourself lucky. There are many regions in this country that are the only ones around. And no, you don't need to devote your life to it, just make an effort. It's probably alot easier than it seems. Or work towards finding a new site for your region to play at. We're all in the same boat together, all it takes is a few people making just a little bit of extra effort to make things considerably more interesting and fun for a lot more people. > It would make life so much simpler for > members of the Keep-it-Simple Party if the place for us was written into the > national SCCA rules and classes that the autocross world, including clubs > that are not even affiliated with SCCA, seems destined to accept and use > locally. [Street-tire classes that use the @#*&! PAX are another subject > about which more at another time.] Like I said, if it's written into the rules, as a national level qualification, there will -still- be the people who invest as much time and effort (and money) as they can to win the class. That means shaved tires and extra wheels. No, it's not professional racing, but alot of people enjoy it to the point that it is the main focus of their free time. Many to the point that much of what they do in thier lives revolves around it. > Everybody cool it and don't spend so much money so that I --or anyone > and everyone -- can COMPETE, not necessarily win, with the same minimal > investment of money and preparation. Rules pushing in that direction rather > than in the bigger-more-costly direction is all I'm talking about. Calm down Ray. You're making it sound like an "I" clas argument now. And I don't see any rules that are pushing us to "bigger-more-costly". This is a motorsport, and by nature, will require some minimal level of investment to be competetive. And as far as other forms of motorsport, autox is by far one of the cheapest. I have a grand ol' time. I am very competetive in my local class (didn't win though...), got eaten for breakfast at nationals, actually managed a trophy at a National Tour last year (ye-haa), and probably spent considerably less than a majority of autoxers last year. What did I spend money on for my 914 last year? One used set and one new set of tires (first new set in 2 years), a tune up, and an alignment. I had a blast last year. Does that mean that I'm a tightwad? No. It just means that it's possible for someone to be at least somewhat competitive, have fun, and still not spend a mint. And I'm in CSP! That's an expensive class. If you want a minimal investment, same level of preparation class, then look at B or D stock, or F-Mod, or C-Mod. If your local class happens to be populated by big-time hot-shoes, then maybe you should set your sights differently. They are all going to want to win. If that means making more of an investment than the other guy, then that -will- happen. I know that if I even have a -hope- of being nationally competetive in my class, I'll have to spend a great deal more money than I have been. Maybe I will, maybe I won't, but I'll still have fun. SCCA Stock classes are still quite inexpensive in the grand "gear-head" scheme of things. Shocks, exhaust, tires, brake pads, and alot of seat time. Some people get really really into it, and that is unstopable no matter where you put them, or what the rules are. They'll go out and get the best exhaust they can within the rules, they'll spend all that time to get their alignment -just- right, they'll spend the big bucks to get those super-fast-sticky tires, shave them, and only use them for autoxing. It doesn't matter if it's an "R" tire, a "Z" tire, or a spec'd Big-O tire. If there is an advantage to be gained by doing something, and that person feels they can afford it, they'll do it. Everyone participates within their own means (well, some of them beyond their means), and for some people, that means five sets of wheels, an enclosed trailer, an assortment of sway bars, and lots of other do-dads for a -stock- class car. They're into it, and they feel they can afford it. Nothing is going to stop them. Does that mean that they are always going to win? Not neccessarilly, but they may have the right equipment to get them there if there's a hot-shot driver behind the wheel. We're all car enthusiasts here. Heck, your username is "RacerRay", you too obviously have some form of racer's image going on. We all do! I know I do! We love this stuff, we love playing with cars, we love learning how to drive our cars at 10/10ths and still have fun doing it. Get in touch with your local club, get a street tire class going the way -YOU- feel it should be done. Contact a neighboring region or club, start a street tire competition between the two. Write a letter to the SEB! Believe it or not, they really do read and pay attention to all of the letters they recieve. If you feel that there is something lacking or missing, do something about it. Ok, I've said enough for now... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Sun Apr 25 23:28:11 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autocross list" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 00:18:04 -0700 Subject: Need a fix before the 15th Howdy all, Any Solo2 events before the 15th of May within about 250 miles of Kansas City? Des Moines? Omaha? St. Louis? Wichita? Salina? My tire supplier thanks you in advance. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 00:05:41 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 00:52:50 -0700 Subject: Re: wheels which ones? I need 16x7's I beleive >the stock is 35mm offset so I guess I want 42mm offset. Right? > >thanks >Jeff Lloyd ====================== Ahem, actually 42mm would be exactly 0.65mm ILLEGAL!!!! 1/4" equals 6.35mm so ya might wanna get either 41mm or an easier to make 40mm offest and be done with it. See you on course. Eric (who had to actually pay $20/wheel to get the offending extra 0.65mm milled off because American Racing decided to change their wheel specs and screw us) Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 00:48:30 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: "Phil Ethier" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:49:19 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars Phil The Fiero did much the same thing as the Saab you described in 1984 when it was first introduced. Remember, this was the alleged "first" space frame, and there is steel all around the cockpit, with the exterior skin bonded to it. While I have not rolled one, I have seen several pictures of a Fiero rolled, and through my various Fiero clubs have met and talked with rollover "victims". In all cases, they walked away - - one was after dropping some 15 - 20 feet off an overpass. In his case, the windshield pillars did give way, but the roof area over the top of the seat did not collapse at all. There is a picture of his car on one of the Fiero websites, I will try to find it and forward it to you. G ---------- > From: Phil Ethier > To: George Ryan ; autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars > Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 10:40 PM > > From: George Ryan > To: autox@autox.team.net > > > >John Matthews wrote: > > > >>I can tell you > >>definitively..... > >> > >>Any car roof can and will collapse if you roll it! > > > >Phil Ethier answered: > >> > >> Never rolled a SAAB 96, have you? > > > >Or a Fiero? > > > Have you rolled Fiero cars on several occasions? > > I have rolled SAAB 96 cars in ice races on three occasions. Once was the > second occasion for the same car, and it was dandy. In each case, the car > had a roll bar. In none of the cases did the roof collapse enough to touch > the roll bar. The only reason I brought it up (Team.Net veterans will > groan, "Yet again!") is that Johns "definite" statement that any car roof > will collapse if the car is rolled is simply untrue. There are many > different car designs out there. Some of them are capable of taking a > serious hit without collapsing. And they are not all new cars. The first > SAAB I had, which I rolled violently on two occasions, was a 1963 car. > > SAAB once took a 99, turned it upside-down and dropped it from a height of > seven feet onto a concrete slab. It didn't even break any glass. Then they > did the same thing to an Opel Manta. It flattened to the door handles. > > Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA > Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban > LOON, TCVWC, MAC > pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 01:34:34 1999 From: JVHT@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net (Autocross List) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 03:33:03 EDT Subject: Ft. Myers, FL School/Practice/Autocross this Sat. & Sun! Just a reminder that "Florida's Toughest Mile" is this coming weekend! Check out our website at GCAC Website for more information. http://members.aol.com/jvht/gcac.html See you there! John Taylor webmaster@GCAC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 02:13:23 1999 From: "Bruce Wentzel" To: "rikracer" , Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:09:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again You wouldn't believe the bru-ha-ha that I created locally when I "discovered" Bandag recaps in 1973. We had 40 people show up at a competition committee meeting to express their displeasure. Bruce Wentzel Green Dot Racing, Inc. Road Race & Solo II rentals BSP 71 Corvette LS6 - the original Greendot; RX-7's; 79 ITA, 84 ITS, 86 ITS One person brake bleeding with Speed Bleeders, racer price $5.20 ea. Ask me about your opportunity to be a part of the fastest growing company in the fastest growing industry in the world!! -----Original Message----- From: rikracer To: Dick Rasmussen ; autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 4:18 AM Subject: Re: Tire History Lesson - Again >The hot tire way back when in our area was the re-cap! Originally only bias >ply then some radials. Capped with some soft compound, they worked quite >well and best of all only cost around $120 for a SET of 4!!!! Of course it >took a bit of searching in the racks for 4 the same height (or at least 2 >and 2) and they often had to be trued. Still a great deal and great grip. > >Rick Brown >AP 240Z > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 05:23:48 1999 From: Russ McBride To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:22:41 -0400 Subject: Solo I - Roll Bar Requirement I've been following the "open vs closed" discussion here about Solo I rules because I have a street Fiat X1/9 that I'd like to take to a Solo I event, but only if I don't have to go to the trouble of adding a roll bar or cage. From what I've heard thus far (and from previous discussions with some SCCA folks), I had convinced myself that if I ran with my roof attached then a roll bar wasn't required. However, I've just gotten the 1999 rule books and now I'm confused again. They are unbelievably hard to follow. Below is my current understanding as far as roll cages are concerned: You start with the Solo I rules in the 1999 Solo Rules book. They say to generally refer to the 1998 (?!) General Competition Rules (wish I had known to ask for last year's GCR when I ordered mine. Maybe the references would match. Silly me.). The Solo Rules book overrides the GCR in places. Concerning roll cages, the Solo Rules say: "(N. Section 13 (GCR) 13.2.1.o.) Roll cages as defined by Section 18 of the GCR are required by all Formula Cars, Sports Racers, Specials, GT-1, and open GT cars, open Production cars, and open Solo II Prepared Category cars. "All other vehicles, at a minimum, shall conform to the roll bar specifications of Appendix L of those rules. Roll cages are recommended and, if installed, must conform to Section 18 of the GCR." Appendix L (in the Solo Rules) doesn't address which cars need a roll bar, just how they must be installed. So, I don't think ANY car can compete without a roll bar or cage. Please prove me wrong. I know many of you will feel compelled to reply and say that I'd be stupid to do a Solo I without a roll bar. Let's just say that I respect your opinion and leave it at that. Russ McBride (frequent SCCA Improved Touring Club Racer) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 06:38:46 1999 From: "Mari L. Clements" To: nasa-va_list@onelist.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:37:30 -0400 Subject: educational/historical things around Petersburg Drat! The ProSolo in Petersburg is during the school year for my second grader. Besides the obvious physics in motion lessons (especially since we're thinking of letting him drive), are there educational, historical, or otherwise enriching (from the school's point of view) things in or near that area? While we're at it, same question about Topeka. Apologies for the cross postings... mlc '91 MR2 NA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 06:51:20 1999 From: Kat Bryce To: Clemens Burger Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:50:48 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo As a newbe to autox I was rather intimidated by attending Event #1 at Fort Myers in March. Well I had a blast!!!! I know my experience at Fort Myers may not be the norm but most of your concerns below should be unfounded. Clemens Burger wrote: > > I am wondering if it is worth going for me. My first and only ProSolo was > in Columbus in '97. And I had no fun whatsoever. If I remember right, I > paid $85 for the entry fee I paid $55 for the National Event. > plus some for the decals and didn't even get Paid $2.00 for decals. Plus Friday I paid $10.00 for some practice launches at the christmas tree. Worth it. > close to the 12 "guaranteed" runs because of the rain. Hmm.... rain???? what's that???? Fort Myers <-- where it hasn't rained for 60 days and 60 nights and is going to burn down soon. >I stood in the rain I am sure this had a large factor in your disappointment with the event. Rain like that would tend to spoil any event. > for one hour as a corner worker before the first car came out because the > timing lights were not working, and Howard Duncan was in no hurry to fix > them. Timing ran flawlessly at the first event.... Biggest delay was about a 1/2 hour after a Z3 drove through a chain link fence while the safety stewards reviewed the course and everyone was trying to figure out how to get the car back on the road. >My run group was lining up while I was still working on course, and That was unfortunate. However in Fort Myers the work run schedule was separated far enough apart that that could not have happened. > when I got in my car to drive, my hands were so cold that I could barely > turn the steering wheel, although I had worn gloves while working. O.k., > many of these things could have happened at any other event, but if I go to > the one in Peru, it will be only because somebody talked me into it. Brrr.... It's 90 hear today and I get a similar effect by standing out a french frying on the course. > > So there's the question: Is it worthwhile for me as an average drive to go > to Peru and run the NATIONALSERIES (uuuhh!), i.e. considering the cost/fun > (speak: driving) ratio ? > I sure had fun and felt it was worth it. > Although I read a couple of the articles in SportsCar, I don't really know > a whole lot about the new format. Is the new format similar to the old > one? How does the Challenge work now? > Don't know the old format. Top 30 finishers were selected for the challenge run off. Cars from different classes or based on the finish times were started at different times. Whew... But I really didn't understand very well being a newbe and all... I do now this.... I HAD A GREAT!!!! TIME!!!! Kat and Indi-go '94 Laguna Ladies BS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 07:04:06 1999 From: Joehgn@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:02:51 EDT Subject: 1991 Eagle Talon TSI - in automatic Hey, any comments on how the above car would fair in G Stock. Saw one cheap and started dreaming about Turbo power. Is there any major reason (other than it is auto-trans) this car should be avioded?? Thanks, Joe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 07:07:58 1999 From: "Steve Ostrovitz" To: "Kat Bryce" , Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:07:54 -0400 Subject: Re: ProSolo I was at that rainfest too. The weather made it by far the most unpleasant autocrossing experience of my life. The weather was downright Biblical. As a first born male, I was concerned. But my enduring image of that event was Howard Duncan lying face down in four inches of standing water in a monsoon trying to get the lights fixed. To me, he seemed pretty interested in getting them fixed and getting the event over. He had impossible conditions to work with that weekend. Steve Ostrovitz -----Original Message----- > >> for one hour as a corner worker before the first car came out because the >> timing lights were not working, and Howard Duncan was in no hurry to fix >> them. > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 07:10:15 1999 From: HAVOCDEAN@aol.com To: whitneys@mindspring.com, schumi@vcn.bc.ca, racing@rennlist.org Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:07:27 EDT Subject: Re: Hoosier 275/45X16 experience? Hey, After driving Sam's 91 Z28 this weekend on 315-35-17, These tires are the way to go. Dean Sapp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 07:16:54 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'Joehgn@aol.com'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:17:09 -0600 Subject: RE: 1991 Eagle Talon TSI - in automatic Gonna feel really anemic with the Auto tranny. It'll upshift slowly, it'll downshift RIGHT where you didnt want it to..then upshift slowly..etc. Autos -can- hurt. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joehgn@aol.com [SMTP:Joehgn@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 8:03 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: 1991 Eagle Talon TSI - in automatic > > Hey, any comments on how the above car would fair in G Stock. Saw one > cheap > and started dreaming about Turbo power. Is there any major reason (other > than > it is auto-trans) this car should be avioded?? > > Thanks, > > Joe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 07:31:02 1999 From: "rexford booth, iii" To: , , Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:42:55 -0400 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars >John Matthews wrote: > >>I can tell you >>definitively..... >> >>Any car roof can and will collapse if you roll it! I rolled a 96 Hyundia Elantra, and it held up just fine. Want pictures? http://students.mwc.edu/~rboot8i7/hyundia.html Check it out. I'm still here, alive and kicking (thank God :) Rusty Booth rboot8i7@mwc.edu 92 Prelude SI CSP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 07:38:00 1999 From: Chris Pappathopoulos To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:36:24 -0500 Subject: BFG R1s I have 4 BFG R1s for sale P195/60ZR14. Two of them are shaved and never used. The other two were rain tires from a club racer and have a little more tread thean the shaved ones. I'd like to get $250 plus S/H for them. They are located in Two Rivers, WI. Hopefully this is the first time you see this message. I tried posting it earlier, but it never showed up on the digest. Chris Pappathopoulos From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 08:34:40 1999 From: NASA-VA Jon Felton To: nasa-va_list@onelist.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:33:03 -0400 Subject: Re: educational/historical things around Petersburg On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:37:30 -0400 "Mari L. Clements" writes: > >Drat! The ProSolo in Petersburg is during the school year for my >second >grader. Besides the obvious physics in motion lessons (especially >since >we're thinking of letting him drive), are there educational, >historical, or >otherwise enriching (from the school's point of view) things in or >near >that area? How about Colonial Williamsburg / Jamestown / Yorktown? They are less than two hours from Petersburg, and very educational. And there are Civil War battlefields all around the area - they are certainly historical and enriching! Jon NASA-VA > >While we're at it, same question about Topeka. > >Apologies for the cross postings... >mlc >'91 MR2 NA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 09:19:08 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: National Tour points Howdy, On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > It takes money to travel back and forth across the country. And time off > from work that not everyone can get to suit their "racing" schedule. > A championship based on the Tour would be okay if you got lucky [or > unlucky, depending on how you look at it] and all the competitors in your > class showed up for every event in the series. > A championship based on being the only one to show up at all the events > would be just a tad hollow. I'd hide the trophy. Please. Like a "National Champion" that only won one event isn't just as bad. (Please note, I'm picking on the process, not the champions themselves. Every national champion I've met or heard about has been a hell of a driver. I just think basing a national championship on only one event is kinda silly). There are other options for points. Split the country into East and West sections and have two champions, with Nationals as it stands. I don't buy the travel argument. Its a heck of a lot easier for me to get a day here and there to attend events over the weekend than it is to get 1.5 weeks to get to Kansas. Witness the ProSolo stuff now. Seems like a lot of the top dogs go to every event. M (Newbie) HO Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 09:20:44 1999 From: "Meck, Christa" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:18:49 -0400 Subject: 1993 RX-7 TT transmission Hey all. I noticed the rex isn't shifting as nice as it has in the past. It's a little stiff. A quick conversation with my maintenance people revealed that I probably should consider changing the transmission fluid. So, I was wondering what people are using. I asked Beth McClure what they use in hers. She's using a synthetic with X1-R additive, but had heard that Redline works well also. Now, I've read the discussions on the different fluids. Seems like Redline has a good rep, and that's where I'm leaning. But, I would like to know from all you RX-7 TT folk - what do YOU use? I do locals, Divs, Tours, Pros (new for this year!) and the occasional track day. Car is driven on the street on weekends in nice weather. :) I hope that's all the info you need. Copy me directly, please. (digest user) Thanks! - Christa 1993 RX-7 TT Touring Black FLRSCCA # 125 - and #125 in most other upstate NY regions. :) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 09:33:48 1999 From: Randy Chase To: autocross Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:35:32 -0700 Subject: Atwater Tire Support Does anyone know which/if any tire companies will be at Atwater? Thanks! Randy Chase '91 MR2 CS http://www.sandiegocrusaders.com/cars.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 10:13:02 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:17:16 -0700 Subject: Kumho Fine Points Would someone with first-hand knowledge please e-mail me with how Kumhos are constructed and tend to work on a stock car. (1) Are they a symmetrical tire, able to be remounted inside out for wear adjustment? Or are they asymmetrical, with one sidewall stiffer than another (ala R-1's)? (2) I'm already under the impression that they can be switched from left to right, that the directional arrows are meaningless as in it is common to receive three rights and one left tire (as mine were delivered...), or any mix of lefts and rights. Is this true? (3) Finally, I have also heard that turn-in is not as crisp(as BFG's) - is this generally true, or course and car dependent? Do most folks have to adjust the suspension to allow for this? Thank you for sharing what you know. Scott Meyers Kumho 'newbie From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 10:28:19 1999 From: Brian M Kennedy To: mikelowe@pop.c-com.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:26:05 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points mikelowe@pop.c-com.net wrote: > > > Why is there no National Tour points ranking? I think someone touched on > > this > > awhile back. I think it would be a great idea. > > If there was nationwide ranking, people that really dig > championships would be forced to attend events across the country. Forced? Hardly. But the more competitive drivers would be encouraged to attend more of the events. And to me, that would be the big advantage of having a season points champion... > The cool thing about National Tours is that we get > Denver-administrated (with local officials) events. But they are > _seperate_ events. That is cool. But the coolest thing about NT's is not the administration, but rather the national quality competition. I don't often see national champs driving at my local events... there were several at the nearby NT. That's the only way to really gauge your own progress -- and it is a huge opportunity to learn some more. Racer ray responded: > Actually I agree with you. But it wouldn't exactly be forced attendance. > What it would be is a chance for someone with a lot of free time and travel > money to go all over the country and at the season's end say "Look at me! I'm > a Champion!" They would go from event to event racking up points even if they > never won a single event and would have a "Championship" that meant > absolutely nothing. There is an easy solution: make the points total be based on your top 3 events. Then the guy willing to go to all of them only gets a minor advantage. And a top driver could win travelling just to the nearest three events. I think a National Tour season points championship would be a very good thing. I can think of no real downside. Brian From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 11:06:26 1999 From: Dave Hillman To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Autocrossing Indoors? Some folks near Pittsburgh are planning on building an indoor race track capable of holding a one mile oval. "This will be the world's biggest single room." http://espn.go.com/car/nascar/news/1999/990422/01221938.html Maybe the floor will be big enough for winter autocrossing in Pennsylvania? -- D a v i d H i l l m a n nma, scca, scscc, imoc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 11:51:49 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: RacerRay52@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:52:08 -0400 Subject: Re: National Tour points RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > Racing costs a heck of a lot of money and solo2, if a bunch of wannabe > racers would let it, could be a place for cheapskates to compete > without building or buying a pile of racer equipment-- > including tires that have rubber that disappears rapidly. Ooh, now you're really treading on thin ice. > As it is solo is getting expensive enough that you could spend a > little more and race for real. Okay, so you're upset that "we" are "making" you spend more money. Yet, *you* want *us* to spend even more, so that we can go road racing and leave you alone? Seems to me the pot's calling the kettle black. However, you greatly misunderstand "our" motivations. We're not "wannabe racers". I have NO DESIRE to go road racing, but I do very much want to win a Solo II National Championship. I don't want higher speeds, I don't want wheel-to-wheel competition. I like Solo II. I believe there are a lot of serious autocrossers who are a lot like me. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 12:30:24 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Mark J. Andy" , Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:16:24 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points >I just think basing a national championship on only one event is >kinda silly) You mean silly like the Olympics or the national championship skating events, or world championship skiing events. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 12:36:10 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Mark Sirota Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:30:13 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points Mark, I fall into that catagory. I have no desire to go road race. However I like going to the big events to run against the best. I have plenty of competition here locally in CM and I regularly get "Wacked" by them. But its also fun to go somewhere different and get pounded by someone new. I just thought that the National Tour should count points. I'm not saying replace the Nationals. with this system. Just score the Tour Events with points. What can this possibly hurt? I don't see it can hurt anything. Mike B. TLS#1 Mark Sirota wrote > However, you greatly misunderstand "our" motivations. We're not > "wannabe racers". I have NO DESIRE to go road racing, but I do very > much want to win a Solo II National Championship. I don't want higher > speeds, I don't want wheel-to-wheel competition. I like Solo II. I > believe there are a lot of serious autocrossers who are a lot like me. > > Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 13:14:33 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Racing Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Canton/Mecca e-mail address? Anyone know it or know if they have one (or 1-800 line)? -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 13:19:37 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:13:55 -0500 Subject: Marshaltown(Iowa) Event Can anyone give us the particulars of the Marshaltown Iowa event for next weekend? Time? directions?. Thinking about coming up from Kansas City. Can someone fill me in? Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 13:41:29 1999 From: "msmith2" To: "autox list" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:41:14 -0400 Subject: Re: National Tour points I thought that was what Pro Solo was for..... To give the people who wanna spend thousands blueprinting everything on their stock class car a place to play with others like them and leaving the more 'amateur-ish' members who wanna just show up and drive to play in Solo2. Not that I agree with either. You can't stop people from spending money on what they want. If they want to play in regular Solo2 and still spend thousands on their car and get pieces of wood and plastic in return, nobody can stop them. You could say that R-type tires are only allowed in Pro Solo, but that would yield 2 results: 1) The tire companies would invest in creating more competitive non-R-type tires that you would just have to have. (just like now) 2) People would want a class in between the all-out seriousness of Pro Solo and the weekend warrior Solo2 so that they could be "kinda-serious" and still be competitive. Ya gotta draw the lines somewhere and nowhere is optimal. Mike > RacerRay52@aol.com wrote: > > Racing costs a heck of a lot of money and solo2, if a bunch of wannabe > > racers would let it, could be a place for cheapskates to compete > > without building or buying a pile of racer equipment-- > > including tires that have rubber that disappears rapidly. > > Ooh, now you're really treading on thin ice. > > > As it is solo is getting expensive enough that you could spend a > > little more and race for real. > > Okay, so you're upset that "we" are "making" you spend more money. Yet, > *you* want *us* to spend even more, so that we can go road racing and > leave you alone? Seems to me the pot's calling the kettle black. > > However, you greatly misunderstand "our" motivations. We're not > "wannabe racers". I have NO DESIRE to go road racing, but I do very > much want to win a Solo II National Championship. I don't want higher > speeds, I don't want wheel-to-wheel competition. I like Solo II. I > believe there are a lot of serious autocrossers who are a lot like me. > > Mark > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 14:05:08 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: msmith2@columbus.rr.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:01:57 EDT Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? In a message dated 4/25/99 10:28:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, msmith2@columbus.rr.com writes: > Why should you have to choose immediately upon leaving Stock? > Why not make it finacially feasible to compete in SP, THEN Prepared without > having to build a second car to do it? > > So far, what we have is: Everything legal in Stock is legal in SP. > Also, anything legal in Prepared is legal in Modified. > > Seems that the already established pattern has been disrupted somewhere in > between SP and Prepared. > > Consistancy, it's not just a good idea, it's DAMN convienient........... > Except that the SP competitors don't want to have to get rid of their wide wheels and go back to the Prepared sizes. I suppose we could allow any widths in Prepared... CHD From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 14:07:27 1999 From: "john matthews" To: pethier@isd.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:06:07 PDT Subject: Saftey, Was closed vs. open car thing If you would like to depend on the stock saftey devices of your car during an autox, and the rules permit it go right ahead. Road racing and Solo 1 require roll cages and other saftey equipment for very good reasons. Saftey engineering has changed our sport from one where people used to watch expecting death and mayhem to one of the fastest growing spectator sports in the country. I personally will err on the stringent side of saftey rules rather than depending on word of mouth about what car will or will not remain safe in a given situation. Even the safest car can be totally destroyed by a high speed collision. Best Regards, John Matthews From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 14:22:29 1999 From: "Stevens, Kevin" To: "'john matthews'" , pethier@isd.net, Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:22:25 -0700 Subject: RE: Saftey, Was closed vs. open car thing >Road racing and Solo 1 require roll cages and other saftey equipment for very good >reasons. Saftey engineering has changed our sport from one where people used to >watch expecting death and mayhem to one of the fastest growing spectator sports >in the country. You can espouse safety information for driver's sake, certainly; but I don't think any marketing promoter would content that safer racing is more marketable. KeS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 14:45:00 1999 From: "Jason Suknot" To: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:43:20 -0500 Subject: Tires and Talladega....... Charles R. Schultz wrote: >It's best not to assume that every destroyed truck >tire you see along >the highway is from a recap. It's my understanding >that the primary >cause of catastrophic failure of a dual-mounted tire >is underinflation >of its mate. That is, if you let one of the duals >go soft, the one >adjacent to it must carry more load, causing >overheating and eventual >failure. Once one tire goes, the other is even more >likely to fail. >This can happen whether the tire is bought new, >regrooved, or recapped. I would have to agree here. My Fiancée manages a trucking company and the only time her drivers have problems with tires is in the case of pulling equipment that belongs to another company with poor maintenance standards. I have answered many a late night phone call from one of her drivers stuck on the side of the road because the tires and equipment were not properly cared for. He also wrote: >PS: NASCAR fans _are_ crazy. I had a great time >watching yesterday's >IROC and BUSCH races at Talladega, then spent more >time driving the 10 >miles home than the total amount of time the two >races took to run. >I'll watch at home, next time, thank you! Better >yet, I'll run the VCR >and go autocross, instead! Sorry you had such a hard time. Even though I am not a big NASCAR fan I went to Sunday's Winston Cup race because I had full access passes to the paddock and pit areas plus reserved infield seating (they do put on a good show even if they never turn right). It took me just over an hour to get to the infield of the track from downtown Birmingham and only about thirty minutes longer than that for the return trip. I know traffic can be bad but we took the back roads home and avoided it all so it can be done. I will admit that I was actually able to see less of the race than if I had watched it on TV but just like an autocross there is something great about being right there in the middle of it all (my seat was less than 25' from Labonte's pit). Jason Suknot From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 15:58:54 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: paging Karl Bender Howdy, Please send me email.... Sorry for the bandwidth... Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 16:48:59 1999 From: Craig Blome To: "Stevens, Kevin" , Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: Saftey, Was closed vs. open car thing --- "Stevens, Kevin" wrote: > > You can espouse safety information for driver's > sake, certainly; but I don't > think any marketing promoter would content that > safer racing is more > marketable. > The folks who attended the 1955 Le Mans would probably take issue with that statement...safety hasn't just been improved for the drivers. Craig Blome From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 17:05:13 1999 From: Chris Moore To: russmcb@bellsouth.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:56:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Solo I - Roll Bar Requirement On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:22:41 -0400 Russ McBride writes: > >So, I don't think ANY car can compete without a roll bar or cage. >Please prove me wrong. You're not wrong. Chris Moore From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 17:28:52 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Craig Blome Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:43:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Saftey, Was closed vs. open car thing Craig Blome wrote: > > --- "Stevens, Kevin" wrote: > > > > You can espouse safety information for driver's > > sake, certainly; but I don't > > think any marketing promoter would content that > > safer racing is more > > marketable. > > > > The folks who attended the 1955 Le Mans would probably > take issue with that statement...safety hasn't just > been improved for the drivers. And then we have the IRL race from last year, where a bouncing wheel made its way into the stands and made a mess of the spectators. One reason why I personally feel that open wheel cars should stay off of oval tracks. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 18:08:50 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Paul Foster Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Cracking Kuhmos On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Paul Foster wrote: > My big concern is now the sidewall cracking. Is anybody else > experiencing this? Yep. Fronts only, 245/45X16 on 7.5" rims. Always used high 30's psi. -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 18:11:21 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: teamsolo@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:54:45 EDT Subject: SEDiv Solo2 Event #1 this weekend, May 1 & 2 The first event of the 1999 BFGoodrich Team T/A SCCA SEDiv Solo2 Series will be hosted by the Atlanta Region this weekend, May 1 & 2, at the Atlanta Motor Speedway. A separate parking lot will be used for the paddock and general parking, so expect a large, challenging National-level type event course. So far we have 125 drivers registered for the opening event. We'd really like to see at least 150 drivers attend this event. If you haven't registered yet nows your chance to get off the porch and come run with the big dogs. Regular registration remains open through this Wednesday 4/28. After this date a $20 late registration fee will be required, in addition to the regular registration fee of $45. You can pre-register free of charge and then pay at the event. However, there is no fee or penalty for failing to attend, so don't delay. On-line registration and event information can be obtained at the SEDiv Solo2 website per the link below: SEDiv Solo2 website Mark Sipe SEDiv Solo2 Deputy Steward (334) 286-8300 teamz3@aol.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 18:16:55 1999 From: John Galligan To: autocross Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:13:58 -0500 Subject: Gulf Coast Region A big tip of the hat to the Gulf Coast Region for a super Solo 2 event this past Sunday. The mile long course was challenging and exciting, all were happy with the entire event. A great job by Walt Wurzbach, John Morgan ( A NINE CONE SLALOM? ), David Hawkins, Topper Jones, and all the great members of Gulf Coast Region. We had 54 entrants, a hot day, a long course, and lots of happy people. Take a bow GCR, you deserve it. John -- John Galligan galligan@gulftel.com SCCA-Gulf Coast Region Cavalier Z24 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 18:47:17 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hey axel! Howdy, Hey Axel! Why don't you give me your mustang so I can make a CP car? Its all just dorky problems right? Nothing that after I completely strip the interior and put in a cage would be a problem? Sam Strano in our region has this prev. gen 1LE camero that he's running to ESP specs. Freaking fast as hell. He's got 315 Kumhos on all four corners. I told him he should put on wheelie bars just to psych out the other folks... :-) Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 18:49:09 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: hey axel! Howdy, On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Mark J. Andy wrote: > Hey Axel! thus proving that in fact I can't control my computer _or_ my Neon... :-) Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 18:49:21 1999 From: Craig Blome To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Miata PS parasitic losses? Subject line sez it all...anyone have numbers? Is it constant or does a PS pump consume less juice when in bypass? Wondering if it's worth the slower ratio... Thanks, Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 19:43:45 1999 From: "Jan Schmidt" To: autox@autox.team.net, tmalzahn@tnmnetworks.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:41:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Lug Nuts and such You didnt listen to Schmidt did you! As I mentioned several weeks ago: use anti-seize on the studs and torqe to 15% less than spec and they will last ALMOST forever. Bill Schmidt RX7 ( no broken studs in 7 years of solo in this car) >>> "Tim Malzahn" 04/25 9:21 PM >>> Hi all, Going back to a subject debated a few weeks ago regarding lug nuts and wheel studs and torquing them down every race. I had a race today and on the last run, turning left felt kinda funny, like a whumpa-whumpa sound from the front. I thought to myself, "gee, it must be hot tires or tires rubbing on the inner fender or something." No such luck. When I was changing the tires back to the streets, I could not get one of the right front lug nuts loose. So I did not change one of the tires for the trip back home. When I got home, I ended up shearing off the wheel stud trying to remove the lug nut. I think what may have happened is when I was torquing the nuts down this morning, I weakened one of the studs enough so that it actually broke sometime in competition during the day (last run.) The stud broken is under warranty and I can have it replaced for no charge. My question is should I go ahead and get all of the others replaced since I already had one fail? Also, if I have them replaced, any ideas on how much it could cost? Tim Malzahn 97 Integra GS-R Sedan From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 20:10:22 1999 From: "Charles R. Schultz" To: autox@autox.team.net, tmalzahn@tnmnetworks.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:08:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Tires and Talladega....... The 'Dega story is worse than I made it sound in my first post. It took us more time to get _off_the_premises_ than it did to watch 400 miles of racing. Only 10 minutes from the gate to the house! I guess you had special parking near Speedway Boulevard. I was parked right behind the start-finish line seats, about as far as you can get from any gates. See my comments at http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua/east.html . ------------------------------- Jason Suknot wrote: > > Charles R. Schultz wrote: > >PS: NASCAR fans _are_ crazy. I had a great time >watching yesterday's > >IROC and BUSCH races at Talladega, then spent more >time driving the 10 > >miles home than the total amount of time the two >races took to run. > >I'll watch at home, next time, thank you! Better >yet, I'll run the VCR > >and go autocross, instead! > > Sorry you had such a hard time. Even though I am not a big NASCAR fan I went > to Sunday's Winston Cup race because I had full access passes to the paddock > and pit areas plus reserved infield seating (they do put on a good show even > if they never turn right). It took me just over an hour to get to the > infield of the track from downtown Birmingham and only about thirty minutes > longer than that for the return trip. I know traffic can be bad but we took > the back roads home and avoided it all so it can be done. I will admit that > I was actually able to see less of the race than if I had watched it on TV > but just like an autocross there is something great about being right there > in the middle of it all (my seat was less than 25' from Labonte's pit). > > Jason Suknot -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Schultz/ Mailto:n2pua@cybrtyme.com / Home page: http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/n2pua Eastaboga / (Under construction forever!) Alabama / AIM Screen Name: n2pua ICQ ID Number: 11654121 36260 / It's not the thing you fling, but the fling, itself! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 21:03:11 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:11:15 -0400 Subject: Subject: Yesterday's results are on the website Check out the Atlanta Region Website to see the results from yesterday's event at AMS. http://www.atl-scca.org Ben From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 21:14:09 1999 From: washburn To: Phil Ethier Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:09:32 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points Phil Ethier wrote: > > >I just think basing a national championship on only one event is > >kinda silly) > > You mean silly like the Olympics or the national championship skating > events, or world championship skiing events. > Good examples. I think that the real National Champion is best driver who is able to step up to the plate when he or she needs to. I'm not sure there would be too many different names in the back of the rule book if it were done some other way. I like the one event format. It sure would be disappointing to me if I beat the National Champ on the final event, but didn't win the championship because I couldn't afford to drive around to all the events all year. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 21:24:42 1999 From: "Bruce Sargent" To: "Jan Schmidt" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:24:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Lug Nuts and such Everyone; Lug Nut/Bolt Torque listed by manufacturer is the Maximum not the Minimum!! I have seen more broken by over torquing than by cross threading in my forty years of wrenching. I do not trust torque shafts sold by many tool dealers. They work fairly decent for a while, in a good operators hands. Then the operator starts "handing" the shaft and the metal starts getting tired.........=> improper torque results, can be either too much or too little, neither is good. Even seen tire busters "jumping" on the torque wrench. Think that gets the right torque? Nope. Over torquing even can warp the brake rotors/drums and cause pulsation of the brakes. -----Original Message----- From: Jan Schmidt To: autox@autox.team.net ; tmalzahn@tnmnetworks.com Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 7:45 PM Subject: Re: Lug Nuts and such >You didnt listen to Schmidt did you! As I mentioned several weeks ago: use anti-seize on the studs and torqe to 15% less than spec and they will last ALMOST forever. >Bill Schmidt RX7 ( no broken studs in 7 years of solo in this car) > >>>> "Tim Malzahn" 04/25 9:21 PM >>> >Hi all, > >Going back to a subject debated a few weeks ago regarding lug nuts and wheel studs and torquing them down every race. > >I had a race today and on the last run, turning left felt kinda funny, like a whumpa-whumpa sound from the front. I thought to myself, "gee, it must be hot tires or tires rubbing on the inner fender or something." > >No such luck. > >When I was changing the tires back to the streets, I could not get one of the right front lug nuts loose. So I did not change one of the tires for the trip back home. When I got home, I ended up shearing off the wheel stud trying to remove the lug nut. > >I think what may have happened is when I was torquing the nuts down this morning, I weakened one of the studs enough so that it actually broke sometime in competition during the day (last run.) > >The stud broken is under warranty and I can have it replaced for no charge. My question is should I go ahead and get all of the others replaced since I already had one fail? > >Also, if I have them replaced, any ideas on how much it could cost? > >Tim Malzahn >97 Integra GS-R Sedan > > ! > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 21:35:47 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: solo2atlanta@ilist.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:41:52 -0400 Subject: *Please* note changes in run groups!! We had several ST competitors who didn't get the original post about these changes. NOTICE ST, STR, and STU are now in the RED group. Also, BP and CP are now in the Blue (groundpounder) group and KM has moved to the Yellow group. ================================================================== Subject: Updated Atlanta SCCA NOPI Solo II Schedule *Please* note changes in run groups!! Atlanta Region SCCA NOPI 1999 Solo II Series (Pre-register on-line at www.atl-scca.org) Competitors will run/work with their own class. The Run/Work "heats" will be rotated each event (see the run/work schedule above the calendar). * Session Procedures Morning Afternoon * Course set-up 7:00 - 8:30 * Registration and Tech 8:00 - 9:30 11:00 - 12:30 * Driver's meeting 9:35 12:35 * Run Sessions (approximately) 10:00 - 12:30 1:00 - 4:30 * Course tear-down at end of event * Event Supplemental Regulations * All entrants must work during the session(s) they run * Work assignments will be given at registration * Out of town, novice and "Time Only" entrants will be allowed to run in either session, no matter what class they are in. * "Time Only" entrants may enter both morning and afternoon sessions if they pay the additional entry fee * Entrants who don't run at the same time as their class will run for "Time Only" except for out-of-town guests and key Team Solo members. 1999 NOPI Solo II Series Schedule Run/work heats (includes corresponding ladies' classes). Blue Group: SS, AS, FS, BSP, ESP, PRO, BP, CP Red Group: BS, ASP, CSP, DSP, ST, STR, STU Green Group: CS, DS, ES, HS, AP, EP, DP, KMJr. Yellow Group: GS, OSP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, KM The following run/work schedule will be followed throughout the season: March 27 School AMS March 28 Points # 1: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow April 18 Points #2: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue April 25 Points #3: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red May 1-2 SEDIV Divisional at AMS (must be an SCCA member) May 16 Points #4: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green June 26 School AMS June 27 Points #5: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow July 25 Points #6: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue August 14 Points #7: Morning - Green/Yellow Afternoon - Blue/Red August 15 Points #8: Morning - Yellow/Blue Afternoon - Red/Green August 28-29 SEDIV Perry, GA (must be an SCCA member) September 18-19 NOPINationals AMS October 10 Points #9: Morning - Blue/Red Afternoon - Green/Yellow October 24 Points #10: Morning - Red/Green Afternoon - Yellow/Blue November 7 ChampionofChampions AMS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 21:43:10 1999 From: washburn To: Popsracr@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:38:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Celica GT vs ST Popsracr@aol.com wrote > > OK so I'll conceed that in the right hands (not mine) the ST has the ability > to be "competitive" with the GT in ES. With that in mind I can't > wholeheartedly object with conviction the move proposal for the ST to move > to ES. Yes I'll whine and moan and groan all day about it too. I don't like > the idea of my ST going to ES land but for neat courses like we had today and > the competition as it was will still get me to run with the fun Cheese heads. > I'm sorry I didn't get to see you before you took off. (Rather quickly I might add) I did not get my opportunity to discuss the proposed classing changes with you AFTER you finished spanking me on the course, and running right up close to Jeff and Per's tailpipes. (big grin!) A slap on the back to all three of you. The "Three Celica-iero's"! You guys are really going to give me the proper motivation to get the Cow Car set up fast! -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 21:48:06 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: AutoX Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:42:54 -0700 Subject: Mechanic in San Diego Area? My neice goes to school in the San Diego area and drives a '95 Z24 Cavalier. There is a suspect water pump on her 56k mile car. Do any of you guys in that area have a good shop to suggest that might do this work honestly without ripping her off? She is just as fussy as all of us are. GaryMcDaniel From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 22:01:19 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: Randy Chase Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:56:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Atwater Tire Support We just had our local Fresno Chapter meeting and the guy from Hoosier said they would have a trailer there! This is an abrasive surface so come prepared. GaryMcDaniel Randy Chase wrote: > Does anyone know which/if any tire companies will be at Atwater? > > Thanks! > > Randy Chase > '91 MR2 CS > http://www.sandiegocrusaders.com/cars.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Mon Apr 26 23:34:19 1999 From: mikelowe@pop.c-com.net To: autox@autox.team.net, Craig Blome Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:29:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Miata PS parasitic losses? > Subject line sez it all...anyone have numbers? Is it > constant or does a PS pump consume less juice when in > bypass? Wondering if it's worth the slower ratio... I don't know about HP drain but I do know this: After an event or two, I was adjusted to the slower manual ratio. I don't think the manual ratio ever caused me problems that would have been solved by having the faster ratio. If I was late making a turn, it was due to poor turn judgement and not slow steering. It took me only a day or two to get used to the extra effort in daily driving. But then again, I was transitioning from the Lumina company car with "pinky-movable" super-PS. I've had non-PS cars before so I knew the tricks already. The only time I regretted having the manual rack was when I was recovering from the Neon accident. The car had to sit for a few extra weeks while the shoulder healed. Mike Lowe mikelowe@phoenix.net http://www.phoenix.net/~mikelowe Texas A&M Sports Car Club Houston Region SCCA Miata Club of America '96 Miata R BS 93 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 00:02:36 1999 From: Ghsharp@aol.com To: Smokerbros@aol.com, msmith2@columbus.rr.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:01:01 EDT Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? > In a message dated 4/25/99 10:28:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > msmith2@columbus.rr.com writes: > >> Why should you have to choose immediately upon leaving Stock? >> Why not make it finacially feasible to compete in SP, THEN Prepared > without >> having to build a second car to do it? >> >> So far, what we have is: Everything legal in Stock is legal in SP. >> Also, anything legal in Prepared is legal in Modified. >> >> Seems that the already established pattern has been disrupted somewhere > in >> between SP and Prepared. >> >> Consistancy, it's not just a good idea, it's DAMN convienient........... And Charlie Davis replied: > Except that the SP competitors don't want to have to get rid of their wide > wheels and go back to the Prepared sizes. I suppose we could allow any > widths in Prepared... > > CHD Either way, a LOT of people are going to have to buy wheels, and I'd wager most of them would rather spend the money on something else. I have an idea.......let's ALL get rid of our current Solo cars. Then we can re-write the entire Solo I/II rulebook from scratch without affecting any current competitor's pocketbook. Everyone can go buy or build their choice of car after they read the new rulebook, because I can guarantee the new book will look nothing like it does today. Then, among other things, we can have a nice, orderly progression from one category to another. The problem here is (as someone mentioned previously) the Prepared and Street Prepared rulesets were created at completely different points in time, for completely different reasons, and for completely different groups of cars. Prepared came first, and when SP was created later, its purpose was not to be "almost-Prepared". Sometimes, to understand the rules you have to know the history of how and why the rules were written as they were. GH Sharp From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 00:05:16 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: msirota@isc.upenn.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:03:25 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/26/99 1:50:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, msirota@isc.upenn.edu writes: << I believe there are a lot of serious autocrossers who are a lot like me. >> Well, I have participated in 400+ autocrosses, maybe 500, so I'm talking about myself in large measure. I never said, as you and others seem to read into what I have said, that anyone is forcing me to do anything. There simply is not being offered the kind of dirt cheap, rock-bottom-in-cost thing that I am willing to get into. I like to compete and I try hard for the few minutes I'm out there. It simply isn't attractive enough to cause me to spend much money to do it. I don't know how many people see autox as I do. It might be interesting if some publication dealing with the sport would conduct a poll to determine where the market is. I don't travel more than about 200 miles to run. Time was I could run 30 times a year without going more than 35 miles. If there are very few who feel as I do then SCCA and various regions and clubs are not missing a significant number of participants. If there are a great number who feel as I do but who just don't say anything then it might be worthwhile for the sport to listen and think about it. I know there are at least some who feel as I do because some have told me so. I don't set out to annoy people but if people get annoyed anyhow -- hey, life's like that sometimes. Everybody lighten up. Or don't. Happy Motoring. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 00:12:21 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: hottvr@tfs.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:10:50 EDT Subject: Re: National Tour points In a message dated 4/26/99 2:45:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hottvr@tfs.net writes: << Just score the Tour Events with points. What can this possibly hurt? I don't see it can hurt anything. >> FWIW I don't think it would hurt anything either. It just might turn out to be a bit thin as a national championship. The current national championship, though I don't doubt that a bunch of very good autoxers show up in Kansas every September, is a little shaky in the same way. It is a prize to be proud of if you win, but to call one event a National Championship? Well, I guess you can call it whatever you wish. A rose by any other name... Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 01:08:16 1999 From: DUELRACER@aol.com To: Autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 03:06:43 EDT Subject: (no subject) After going through and reading all the talk about the Solo II program getting into the money business, it made me want to say a few things. I started out autox in 94' with a 92' Cavalier Z-24. I was on street tires then and the Kansas City region didn't have a Street Tire class then. So, I was put in the same class as all the other local guys in ESP. I thought it was a hoot since the only thing I had done to the car was put in a Hypertech chip. Tim Koch is from here and I had to be in the same class as him. Boy, is that an eye opening experience. I got hooked, but still couldn't afford to go out and buy new rims and tires. My first big event that year for me was the Mirrorkhana in Salina. I went out there and in the ESP class got to go home after my first two times on course with my tail between my legs. I was out matched and out talented by Tim Koch, Rob Pickrell, and Mark Walker and many others. I thought to myself, how in the world would someone just starting out in this ever be able to take home a trophy without spending wads of money. Then Rob Pickrell said something to me that I will never forget. If you can't make the car better than it can be, and you want to keep autox, then maybe you ought to make the car competitive in its originally class. After taking this in and making it sink in to my brain, I took the chip out and put the car back in G Stock. The next year, I took to a new set of rims and sticky tires and went to several events around the Midwest. It was also my first time in the Solotime series. I entered into all four events and took the overall 95' G Stock championship. With a first, second, third, and sixth from the middiv. But, what I am trying to say here is that there are a lot of people out there that are like me and not able to afford the tires, modifications, to make the car more competitive in the class that it is in and they can't just go out and buy one that is. So, that is why the Street Tire class was started here in Kansas City, The Crown Autocross club and the KCR have a class for the beginner to go to and compete with others that are in the same boat. But, we still see the one timers coming and then not going back. Why? Lots of these are the younger generation. 20 to 30. Just starting out, or getting out of college. They watch the open classes and see that they have to shell out more money just to be able to compete or they walk around and talk to others that have been around and see what they shell out and think this isn't for them. We at the Crown Club think this sport is for the Grassroots enthusiast as well as the hard core fanatic. That is why we have instituted a new class program this year to try and get the younger guys back and to keep coming back. We have a Street Tire Novice program. If you haven't been autox for years then you have a chance at getting a trophy, you run with other guys in the same boat. We have seen an upward climb in our attendance this year already from the new program. And, part of this program is to make the new guys feel welcome and want to come back and enjoy the sport. With no matter what kind of car they have. I have been to Nationals three times. I also know that I am not going to be the one to win either or even possibly place in the trophy positions. But, I go there to have fun. To get to compete on a site that is 10 times bigger than anything we can get our hands on at a local event. (Except for the event this May 16th at Arrowhead) To meet people that are there for the same thing. People with the same likes, hobbies, and such. I don't go to Nationals thinking that if I buy the right car, spend wads of money on it and get it set up right I am going to take home a trophy. If I win the Powerball then Maybe? But, I am there and here locally for the FUN. That is what Autocrossing is supposed to be about. If you ain't having fun then why do it in the first place? Paul Poore Secretary for the Crown Autocross Club. and Kansas Region Member of the SCCA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 02:02:07 1999 From: JVHT@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net (Autocross List) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:00:30 EDT Subject: Ft. Myers, FL Saturday School/Practice changes. I thought I'd get this out to everyone immediately to let you know.-John The following is from GCAC's President Dave Hutter I hope that everybody reads this because I want to explain about Saturday, May 1 and what and how we are going to run things. First of all we will have open practice all day, that's a morning session and afternoon session. We also will have a Novice School the same day in the morning, but it will be held at the far end that we don't use for open practice We have had a very good response to our schools and if this new format works we can have 10 schools a year plus 10 full days of Open Practice / Test and Tune a year. We do however need some Help with instructors, this is a very worthwhile and rewarding experience helping those just getting started in autocrossing. Instructors will also get into the Test & Tune session at no charge. Please call me, we really need some people to help out as instructors. Good news, our Test & Tune course will now be a benchmark course. This means it will always be the same course so that you can try different ideas and compare the results to other Test & Tune days, Just keep a log of your results and you will be able to see what works and what doesn't work. This is a new concept and we hope you like the idea. DRIVER INSTRUCTOR NEEDED If you have been autocrossing for a few years we need your help. Remember how hard it seemed when you first started. Don't you wish you would have had a personal instructor to guide you thru. Well, now is your chance to help someone else. Don't be shy, call Dave Hutter today and offer your help...... See you Saturday! John Taylor webmaster@ GCAC Website From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 02:06:54 1999 From: Wes Shew To: Racing Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Wheel spacer max.safe thickness? If one adds wheel spacers to increase track and fillout the wheel well, how thick can one go without having to change to longer studs? i.e. is there a min # of threads/length of threads the wheel nut should catch? TIA -- Yours in motorsport, Wesley E. Shew [ macher ;-) ] #99 AS 1991 PORSCHE 944 S2 cpe 3.0L(M030&LSD)Indischrot/Schwarz Kunstleder #53 DSP 1980 VW Scirocco Mk.I, 1.6L bal.& blueprt, Platinum Grey Metallic SCCA (NWR) & PCA (CWR) Vancouver, Canada (604)737-7649 schumi@vcn.bc.ca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 02:17:06 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: cp@twingles.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:55:28 EDT Subject: Looking for a Classic Chevy parts source Help! The only auto-x context is that the '56 Nomad in question 1) could be a C/P car, and 2) is owned by the widow and daughters of the late Charlie Michael, who WAS an autocrosser. We're trying to get ahold of a place called Mike McGoy's (McGaughey's?) Classic Chevy Parts. Anybody??? (The other) Charlie From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 05:44:22 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:43:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? I have been following this thread with some amusement. I think that 13v11 1/2" tires on 13x10 rims are wide enough for a 1900 lb car - - wouldn't want to go any wider! I have a hard enough time getting heat into my R25 or R33 Hoosiers with what I have!!! Won't discuss the natural rubber drag race tubes in order to get heat (another $50 or see each corner). The SP cars are heavier than P, with R tires instead of slicks. When one chops the car up, lightening it by a couple humdred (or more) pounds, they are changing the geometry of their suspension.When they change from "R" to slicks, they are changing the handling characteristics. In both cases, there is a world of differences (changes), in the same car, in order to make it "work" for them. Some of them ain't cheap, either!! Shocks, springs, sway bars (I had to try 6 different sway bars and configurations before I found a setup I liked). Ad Nauseum. Then there are costs like seats, Lexan, not to mention the power train mods. The discussion about making a wheel change one of those things needed to make this transition is simply one more consideration in order to make the car "work" in it's new configuration. You see, wheels simply are not the only thiong that needs attention to turn an SP car to a P car. Why focus on them alone? The cost of a new set of wheels is nominal compared to some of he other costs required to be competitive in Prepared, compared to Street Prepared. Is there anybody out there that has actually taken an SP car and prepared it to the rules in the Prepared catagory? If so, were wheels really a major consideration? I think not, but if so would like to discuss it with you in private. (Not wannabe's, somebody that has actually done it.) George 1900 lb AP Fiero From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 06:35:54 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: washburn Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:30:05 -0500 Subject: Re: National Tour points Everybody keeps getting it mixed up! I was not talking about doing anything at all with the Nationals! Just scoreing the National Tour events as a "Stand alone" series. Mike B. TLS#1 washburn wrote: > Phil Ethier wrote: > > > > >I just think basing a national championship on only one event is > > >kinda silly) > > > > You mean silly like the Olympics or the national championship skating > > events, or world championship skiing events. > > > Good examples. I think that the real National Champion is best driver > who is able to step up to the plate when he or she needs to. I'm not > sure there would be too many different names in the back of the rule > book if it were done some other way. I like the one event format. It > sure would be disappointing to me if I beat the National Champ on the > final event, but didn't win the championship because I couldn't afford > to drive around to all the events all year. > > -- > Patrick Washburn > Wausau, WI Land of Cheese > 95 DS Neon > Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 08:27:15 1999 From: whitney To: "George Ryan" , Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:24:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? I think it's the 5.5 -7" rim limits in DP and EP that raise the eyebrows (and the sweat beads on the tire changers) more than anything. 9.5" slicks on a 13x6 is not a real pretty sight :( (on a 1725 lb car) I am still amazed they work at all, or at least when fresh. Stan Whitney DP/EP #25 CRX At 06:43 AM 4/27/99 -0500, George Ryan wrote: >I have been following this thread with some amusement. > >I think that 13v11 1/2" tires on 13x10 rims are wide enough >for a 1900 lb car - - wouldn't want to go any wider! I have a >hard enough time getting heat into my R25 or R33 Hoosiers >with what I have!!! Won't discuss the natural rubber drag race >tubes in order to get heat (another $50 or see each corner). > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 08:39:43 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:37:30 -0400 Subject: Re Solo I - Roll Bar Requirement <<>> AFAIK, a roll bar has always been required for Solo I. And IMHO it should require a roll cage. As a racer I am surprised at your attitude. Regarding track incidents and marketing we are only one 3400 lb Winston Cup car in the stands away from never having another race of any kind in this country. Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 09:28:19 1999 From: Jefrem Iwaniw To: Wes Shew Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:26:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Wheel spacer max.safe thickness? On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Wes Shew wrote: > If one adds wheel spacers to increase track and fillout the wheel well, > how thick can one go without having to change to longer studs? i.e. is > there a min # of threads/length of threads the wheel nut should catch? > TIA Generally, thread engagement should be equal to or greater than the diameter of the stud -- thus, if you have a 1/2" stud, you should be engaging at least 1/2" worth of threads. Other factors can come into play (e.g. cars which are hub-centric mean to have their load borne by the hub rather than the studs, and some spacers don't take this into account, etc.). Be careful. -jefrem From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 09:47:16 1999 From: "Robert K. Marcho" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:45:42 -0500 Subject: Hoosier 275/45X16 experience? Having run them for two seasons on my FS 1998 M6 Z28 I can say they are great to start with, but seem to age quickly. Great the first few weekends, but performance starts to suffer while they still have tread left. When we first put them on my son (Oh, how I hate to admit he is faster than me!) beat the local hot shoe, now we can't get within a second. Unlimited budget (dream on), I'd go with them as my first choice. Limited budget (reality), I'm going to the Kumhos for my next purchase next month. I refuse to admit that it is anything other than tires that has slowed us down. I guess next month we won't have any excuses, or we will be competitive again. Bob "Denial-Does-Wonders-for-the-Ego" Marcho From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 09:53:06 1999 From: LARRY97ACR@aol.com To: Autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:51:24 EDT Subject: Re:Street Tire Class The reason I am now in ST (Street Touring) is because I just cannot afford a second set of wheels and tires to run competitively in DS with my ACR Neon. ST lets me run with street rubber and a few basic mods with no engine work allowed, just some intake and exhaust changes. Except for the limit of 3.1L engines this seems to be the class that you all are asking for. In the Houston Region we have 20 in this class each month. Rgds Larry M From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 10:09:22 1999 From: GMAnkeny@aol.com To: autox-cm@autox.team.net, autox@autox.team.net, ba-autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:07:51 EDT Subject: Cal Club Divisional The Cal Club Divisional will be at Hollywood Park June 19-20. Come on down for some good Southern (Cal) Hospitality. Big fun Course will be set up by Craig Nagler-Time he started working again huh!!!! All you No Cals will be expected to Participate, since the week before We'll be Supporting your Divisional at Atwater. More Info will follow later--All Out of Staters are welcome !!!!!!!! Guy Ankeny From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 10:47:13 1999 From: Rick Perry To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:49:38 -0700 Subject: SAN DIEGO DIVISIONAL - MAY 29 & 30 Hi Drivers, The SCCA San Diego Region will be holding a SoPac Divisional on May 29 & 30, 1999 @ Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego, CA. The event will be held on the Southeast Lot and will have patrolled overnight parking. The weather should be excellent for this two day autocross. Divisional T-shirts will be presented to the first 150 entrants. Plan now on attending and running 60+ seconds courses on the best site in the West. Flyers will be mailed out this week. Out of Staters are welcome, and we look forward to seeing you. Questions & Information: Jim Hamm (619) 579-1541, jhhamm@home.com Rick Perry (619) 440-2689 San Diego AutoX Information Line (800) 360-4454 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 10:59:13 1999 From: "Jeff Winchell" To: tgentry@execpc.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:00:40 -0700 Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars How about lower seats? > Don't forget, open cars require the roll bar to be 2"-3" above the drivers > helmet. For us tall guys that's not an option with most convertibles if > we intend to put the top up at some point. > > Tom Gentry > Life is too short to drive boring cars! > '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) Jeff Winchell '98 Ford SVT Cobra Convertible #43 ITS Solo I/ESP Solo II From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 11:29:09 1999 From: "Kelly, Katie" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:27:05 -0700 Subject: Skin Blotchiness I just thought I'd inform the forum of the latest of my skin maladies. And the latest is, thanks to this new special sun block, my problems are slowly fading away! I had this big blotch of pigment on my forehead and down the sides of my face. I know I'm not painting a pretty picture, but it's just the harsh reality of too much sun exposure, kids. Well, I got this jug of Banana Boat sunscreen at K-Mart during the San Diego Tour. It comes in a special squirt bottle. Well, Coppertone has a similar product that comes out in a fine mist. I was looking for that, but had to settle with this Banana Boat goop. It comes out as this runny white mixture, but by golly, it really works! It's much too messy to just squirt directly from bottle to skin. I squirt some in my hand first. I apply it every morning now, one half hour before I go for my morning swim. These morning swims over the years are what have given me the dreaded "cap and goggle" tan. In college, this strange reverse racoon sun marking was a symbol of status, one of an "athlete." Now it just looks silly. People as if I'm on some sort of hormonal medication. It's time for this to stop. Now I know you're wondering, "Katie, what happened to CLINIQUE!" You can all simmer down. Clinique has a fine line of products; however, you just can't beat those bargains at K-Mart. I suppose one might ask, "But what does this have to do with autocross?" Well, we DO stand out in the sun all day. That's why it relates. Helmet tans have got to be the WORST. Forever fulfilling her duty to help solve humanity's real issues, this is your friendly Ace Reporter, signing off. Katie Kelly ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guilt slows your metabolism. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 11:36:33 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:41:53 -0400 Subject: NOPI Solo II Series Points Event #4 For Immediate Release From: J. Brett Howell: Solo II Articles Chief, Atlanta Region SCCA Subject: Atlanta Region of the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) NOPI Solo II Series Points Event #4 Date: Sunday May 16, 1999 The Atlanta Region of the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) will be hosting the fourth event of its 10 event 1999 NOPI Solo II (autocross) season in the North Turn parking lot of the Atlanta Motor Speedway in Hampton, Georgia, on Sunday, May 16th, beginning at 8:00 a.m. The public is welcome to participate in a timed skilled driving event for all kinds of cars. Enjoy exploring the handling limits of your car in a safely controlled environment. Seatbelts and helmets are required, but loaner helmets are available. The entry fee is $20 per driver for SCCA members and $25 for non-members. Entry is free for the curious observer. Autocrossing is an excellent way to enhance your car control and defensive driving skills, so join us and participate in the excitement. Call 770-455-7222 or visit our website at www.atl-scca.org for more information. Pre-registration for the event is available on our website. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 11:39:22 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: kkelly@spss.com Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:37:15 EDT Subject: Re: Skin Blotchiness In a message dated 4/27/99 1:30:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kkelly@spss.com writes: << Helmet tans have got to be the WORST. >> No, the worst is the dreaded Farmer Brown tan...snow white chest and golden arms... Daniel "no farmer Brown tan here" Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 12:08:33 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:07:03 EDT Subject: BSP Datsun Z questions Can anyone tell me what a reasonable expectation is for a Datsun 240/260/280Z in full BSP trim with regard to: Horsepower/torque Weight Rear gear ratio Wheel size TIA, M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 12:19:14 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:16:21 -0400 Subject: Subject: SEDIV -This weekend!! Subject: SEDIV -This weekend!! You can still enter the Atlanta BFG Team T/A, SF Motorsports Southeast Divisional without paying a $20 late fee. Remember we will be running on the full 13 acre lot at Atlanta Motor Speedway. Register on-line at: http://www.atl-scca.org Then Jump to the Solo II Information screen to get to the SEDIV site. Ben Thatcher Event chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 12:55:19 1999 From: "Richard Holden" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:56:07 -0600 Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions >From: TeamZ3@aol.com >To: autox@autox.team.net >Subject: BSP Datsun Z questions >Date: Tue, Apr 27, 1999, 12:07 PM > > Can anyone tell me what a reasonable expectation is for a Datsun 240/260/280Z > in full BSP trim with regard to: > > Horsepower/torque 200 bhp should be reasonable don't know about the torque, contact Rebello for absolute max. John Banks claims 180 hp at 6000 rpm at the rear wheels in an AP Datsun from dyno runs which probably calculates to 230 to 240 bhp and his car is very strong. > > Weight 2200 to 2400 depending on year and trim 70-72 bodies are the lightest > > Rear gear ratio 3.3 (Manual) or 3.5 (Automatic) is all that is available as OEM 70-78. Unconfirmed rumors have 3.7 in 2+2's 74-78. 3.9 was not available until 1981 in ZX. > Wheel size Andy Craig and Vic Siaz are running 16"X? Works for them. Contact them at Dando's Performance in California > > TIA, > > M Sipe Richard Holden AP 77 Red 280Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 13:43:56 1999 From: Andrew Helgeson To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:41:57 -0400 Subject: Honda Info One of our autocrossers, Mike Ancas, in the Pittsburgh, PA area has written a performance handbook for Hondas/Acuras. You might want to check it out at http://www.hondabook.com/ I have no financial interest in Mike's venture other then he has helped me and others in the Pittsburgh area to turn our daily driver Hondas into little autocross rockets. Andy Helgeson Steel Cities Region SCCA North Hills Sports Car Club From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 14:36:31 1999 From: Michael King To: Buccaneerautox Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:39:14 +0000 Subject: SEDIV Event #2- Alltel (Jaguar) Stadium Buccaneer Region is pleased to be hosting Event #2 of the Southeast Division Solo 2 Championship Series on June 5-6. This year's event will be held at Alltel Stadium in Jacksonville, FL, home of the Jacksonville Jaguars. This is the large, 9 acre, lot that hosted the 1998 National Tour and Pro Solo series' last year. Paddock area will be on an immediate adjacent lot. The headquarter's hotel is the Radisson Riverwalk Hotel in Downtown Jacksonville. It is located right on the river on the Southbank. It provides ample parking plus 24 hour security. Room rate for all rooms is $59.00. You can make your reservations by phone at (800) 333-3333 or (904) 396-5100 or online at www.radisson.com. Remember to mention SCCA when making your reservations. The Friday Night Welcome Party will be at the Radisson Hospitality Suite. There will be access to the pool area right from the Suite, so bring your suits! Also, on Saturday, Buccaneer Region will sponsor your lunch hour with the ever-so-popular fully catered Subway luncheon at the event site. Just as a reminder for those Country and Pop Country fans, Shania Twain will be in concert on that Friday night at the Jacksonville Coliseum. Tickets are available through Ticketmaster. I personally have ordered no rain, nor hurricanes, nor fires, nor tornadoes for this event. So, do come and join us, and have a ball with the Buccaneer Region. One more thing, for those of you hoodlums who are thinking about going to the local go kart track and getting thrown out, we have a great one to choose from. Meet me at the Radisson lobby at 7:00pm on Saturday night. Hehehe...!!! Hope to see all of you out there!!! Thanks, Mike King Event Chairman-1999 SEDIV Solo 2 Event #2 Buccaneer Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 15:00:49 1999 From: Tesec@compuserve.com To: "TEAM.NET" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:58:26 -0400 Subject: Wanted : toyo RA-1 225/50/16 Hi, I need a pair of new or close to full tread Toyos in 225/50/16. They are back ordered too long at my local dealer. Also will be buying a pair of 205/55/16s. I know they suck for a long time but they are very good rain racing tires when full tread. THANKS!! Regards, mike piera AnalogMike@aol.com '72 911S Targa, '73 911RS Replica ~^v^~ aNaLoG.MaN ~^v^~ vintage guitars www.analogman.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 15:33:02 1999 From: Richard Pilfold To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:20:20 -0700 Subject: FW: BSP Datsun Z questions Richard Pilfold -C.S.C.C. BSP 240Z "rpilfold@gdmoore.com" > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Pilfold > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 1:31 PM > To: 'TeamZ3@aol.com' > Subject: RE: BSP Datsun Z questions > > bhp/#ft = Vic Sias knows but probably will not say. My 240 with stock > carbs, > stock ignition & headers, on a dyno at 4,000 above sea level ( don't > ask ) 110hp. > Weight = 2,350# The 1970 Zs are the lightest, but most of them have > rusted away > (Right, Rick?) > Diff ratio = 3.54 Take it or leave it! > wheel size = 16"x10" or whatever your flares will allow. > I'm not sure what 'TIA' means. Does it have anything to do with > pissing off drivers > of 400hp Corvettes ?:-) > Richard Pilfold -C.S.C.C. BSP 240Z > "rpilfold@gdmoore.com" > > -----Original Message----- > From: TeamZ3@aol.com [SMTP:TeamZ3@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:07 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: BSP Datsun Z questions > > Can anyone tell me what a reasonable expectation is for a Datsun > 240/260/280Z > in full BSP trim with regard to: > > Horsepower/torque > > Weight > > Rear gear ratio > > Wheel size > > TIA, > > M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 15:55:04 1999 From: Rex Weatherford To: auto-x , Beretta List Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:02:54 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: quadforum-l Petition for performance! (was "Alero SCX")] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C26C881EC1104F9718CB5AC5 Sorry to spam everyone, but us GM folks need all the help we can get. Our "performance" oriented cars are getting old. (Enough snickering already) ;^) Thanks for the help. -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 89,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 150,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html --------------C26C881EC1104F9718CB5AC5 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from gem.lightlink.com ([205.232.34.13]) by mx6.mindspring.com (Mindspring Mail Service) with ESMTP id ric4kr.7qd.37kbi14 Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lightlink.com (majordom@localhost) by gem.lightlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16889 for quadforum-l-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:37:42 -0400 Received: from light.lightlink.com (root@light.lightlink.com [205.232.34.1]) by gem.lightlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16883 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:37:41 -0400 Received: from nv-file.nv.oees.com ([199.241.67.13]) by light.lightlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA29716 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nv-file.nv.oees.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) id <01BE90BA.C6914AC0@nv-file.nv.oees.com>; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:32:28 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Thompson, Benjamin, B." To: "Quadforum-L (E-mail)" Subject: quadforum-l Petition for performance! (was "Alero SCX") Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:32:27 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: quadforum-l-request@lightlink.com Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 quadforum-l ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the letter campaign begin! The letter petitioning Olds to produce a high performance Alero is up on my web site now. The database is ready and waiting to record your signature! Encourage everyone you know to sign the letter, but please, only sign once (legitimacy is important). Simply click on "Send a Message to Olds" on the front page of my web site... http://24.6.33.19/quad4/ Cheers! - Ben Benjamin B. Thompson Corporate Intranet Manager Ogden Environmental And Energy Services bbthompson@oees.com | thompsbb@home.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contact list-owner rlynker@mindspring.com with any questions or problems. --------------C26C881EC1104F9718CB5AC5-- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 15:55:10 1999 From: Jenaro Rodriguez To: Richard Holden Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:53:30 -0700 Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions Richard Holden wrote: > >From: TeamZ3@aol.com > >To: autox@autox.team.net > >Subject: BSP Datsun Z questions > >Date: Tue, Apr 27, 1999, 12:07 PM > > > > > Can anyone tell me what a reasonable expectation is for a Datsun 240/260/280Z > > in full BSP trim with regard to: > > > > Horsepower/torque > 200 bhp should be reasonable don't know about the torque, contact Rebello > for absolute max. John Banks claims 180 hp at 6000 rpm at the rear wheels > in an AP Datsun from dyno runs which probably calculates to 230 to 240 bhp > and his car is very strong. 200 HP? That sounds a little conservative for a car that came with 175 HP stock in a couple of models. My old '76 280Z was supposed to have 175 HP stock. At least that's what it said in the engine compartment. With no restrictions on intake and and exhaust I'd think more than 25 extra HP should be available. Just a thought. Jay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 16:08:27 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: Mtnman3620@aol.com, "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:12:22 -0700 Subject: Re: A Great Tan? Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/27/99 1:30:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kkelly@spss.com > writes: > > No, the worst is the dreaded Farmer Brown tan...snow white chest and golden > arms... In Arizona we call that the "Good Humor" tan - if you have a tan like that you also better have a good sense of humor :-) Scott Meyers DS 240 SX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 16:20:10 1999 From: Rex Weatherford To: auto-x Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:28:15 -0400 Subject: Quad 4 Racer help needed!! I have a problem with my GM 2.3L Quad 4. It has a lifter ticking after runs at auto-xes. I am hoping that someone experienced with this engine can help me. Thanks! -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 92,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 160,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 18:01:58 1999 From: "msmith2" To: "autox list" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:01:48 -0400 Subject: Fw: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Smith To: Howell, J. Brett Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 8:00 PM Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? > > Interesting points, but it sounds like now you are suggesting that the > rules > > be changed to allow unlimited wheels and induction in prepared instead of > > limiting wheel size in street prepared (I thought the latter was your > > proposal). If so, then you may be missing the fact that prepared rules are > > descendent from the GCR which is used in road racing. The purpose for this > > inheritance is to allow someone to build a car that can be autocrossed and > > road raced. For obvious reasons the GCR rules will not be changed to allow > > unlimited wheels and induction, so you would effectively be making road > > racing vehicles uncompetitive in Solo II which would break the link > between > > road racing and Solo II, something that I'm sure would never be supported > by > > the Solo II community. > > Nah, I really don't care which way it went, as long as it was contiguous. If > Prepared can't change, then SP should've been made to follow up to it. > > I just have a problem with an ESP Camaro with an aftermarket FI system, a > cam, 17x11 wheels and aftermarket rear control arms being in EM. > > Mike > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 18:15:49 1999 From: rikracer To: Richard Pilfold , autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:18:17 -0700 Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions >> Subject: RE: BSP Datsun Z questions >> >> bhp/#ft = Vic Sias knows but probably will not say. My 240 with stock >> carbs, >> stock ignition & headers, on a dyno at 4,000 above sea level ( don't >> ask ) 110hp. As in Richard Holden's post, should be able to approach 200hp (engine) >> Weight = 2,350# The 1970 Zs are the lightest, but most of them have >> rusted away >> (Right, Rick?) Well, before it rusted away/cracked in half, my January '70 BSP Z weighed in at 2220# with a half tank of gas. >> Diff ratio = 3.54 Take it or leave it! >> wheel size = 16"x10" or whatever your flares will allow. >> I'm not sure what 'TIA' means. Does it have anything to do with >> pissing off drivers of 400hp Corvettes ?:-) Works for me :-))))) >> Richard Pilfold -C.S.C.C. BSP 240Z Rick Brown AP 240Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 18:41:17 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Peru ProSolo Howdy, Is there anywhere I can get a schedule of events for the ProSolo in Peru, IN next month? I need to figure out if I want to be there on Friday and when I can leave on Sunday.... Any advice for a ProSolo and Peru, IN newbie? Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 18:43:39 1999 From: Popsracr@aol.com To: kkelly@spss.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:38:59 EDT Subject: Re: Skin Blotchiness In a message dated 4/27/99 10:30:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kkelly@spss.com writes: > Now I know you're wondering, "Katie, what happened to CLINIQUE!" > > You can all simmer down. Clinique has a fine line of products; however, you > just can't beat those bargains at K-Mart. > But Katie, what about that stuff called "shade"? Can we get that under a tree? Jimbo From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 18:54:08 1999 From: Randy Chase To: "Mark J. Andy" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:55:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Peru ProSolo "Mark J. Andy" wrote: > > Howdy, > > Is there anywhere I can get a schedule of events for the ProSolo in Peru, > IN next month? I need to figure out if I want to be there on Friday and > when I can leave on Sunday.... > > Any advice for a ProSolo and Peru, IN newbie? ProSolo schedules: Friday- 3:00-5:00pm Practice Starts. 6 starts for $10.00. Not required to be done, but a good idea if you are new to the lights. Also it is kinda of nice to arrive at the site early enough and get rid of some nervousness. 6:00-8:00pm Registration, check in, tech Saturday- 7:00-8:00am Late check in and tech (preregistered only). Doable, but does not leave much time for course walking. 8:15 mandatory worker meeting. There is a driver meeting also. 9:00am First car off. Sunday- 9:00am First car off. This will probably be complete about 1:00pm or so. If you are in a hurry to get home or out of the competition, you *can* leave now...but here is where it starts to get fun. 2:00pm (approx) Challenge competitions. Runs to 5:00pm or so. End of day: Award presentations. So, in my opinion, it is good to get there by 3:00pm Friday and plan on watching the challenges (or plan on being in them!) on Sunday afternoon. It is good form to stay for the awards presentation if you won something. If you can't stay, designate someone to pick up your trophy. Have fun, Randy Chase '91 MR2 CS (now back to driving the MR2 at Atwater...on Toyos) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 19:15:51 1999 From: Paul Schelling & Kate Hughes To: "Team.Net" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:09:20 -0500 Subject: No Novice Handbooks Yet I have not been able to find a cheap (free) printer for the handbooks this year. I will ask Greathead Gen'l Printing what it costs to have it done commercially, I think it was a buck or two (?) per booklet. If anyone who works with (especially tests) bulk printers/photocopiers and is allowed to test on non-profit stuff can help out, then we might be able to continue having them for 16 cents each. Maybe the Tire Rack or some other Friend of Solo will sponsor them? I'll look into it, see what I can find. Otherwise, we'll do it the commercial route, pay what we need to, and have local regions photocopy their own if they don't want to pay the higher price. Only reminder - these are intended to be free to your novices. Let me know if you can help, Thanks! Kate Hughes brholler@servtech.com -- ----------------------------------------------------- Kate Hughes 93 Explorer "Gunhead" (tow vehicle) 91 Miata "Prudence" (ex-BS autocrosser and summer fun) 77 Zink Z10-C "Roland" (CM autocrosser) 74 Landcruiser "Red Frankenstein" (At Dr. Jekyll's Office) 73 2002 "Owen" (Retired Track Car (FOR SALE)) 86 325es New Addition (Track Car) (...or...) Paul Schelling 93 Dakota Sport (does it all, ex-HS autocrosser) 83 Rabbit "Jasper" (ice racer) ----------------------------------------------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 20:34:36 1999 From: washburn To: Mike Bultemeier Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:30:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Championship (was National Tour points) Mike Bultemeier wrote: > > Everybody keeps getting it mixed up! I was not talking about doing anything > at all with the Nationals! Just scoreing the National Tour events as a > "Stand alone" series. > > Mike B. TLS#1 No, I'm not mixed up...I know what you said. I'm having another conversation about why the National Championship is decided in one event. I should have changed the subject line....sorry. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 20:54:07 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: Mike Bultemeier Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:51:27 -0500 Subject: Peru Pro Hotels Since I got my confirmation post card today, I figured I'd finally get off my duff and reserve a room for the Peru ProSolo. At the recommendation of my co-driver, I made an online reservation at the Knight's Inn in Peru....Wow! $32 a night! They have a lot of rooms left available. https://www.knightsinn.com/ctg/cgi-bin/Booking.KG/check_avail/AAAAQdACwAAAAa bAAA Anyone else running CS? I don't generally run Stock classes and am wondering how many folks are going to spank me.... David Hawkins 85 Mr2 CSP/ITA 91 Mr2 CS for Peru From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 21:44:44 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: Auto-X mailing list Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:43:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: A Great Tan? Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/27/99 1:30:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kkelly@spss.com > writes: > > No, the worst is the dreaded Farmer Brown tan...snow white chest and golden > arms... I respectfully disagree. The "Geek Tan" is the worst. Pasty white all over, with the forehead and tops of the ears peeling from working a corner during an event, which is the only outdoor exposure during daylight one's had for weeks. Dale (Sr. Network Geek) --- The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 22:01:09 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "msmith2" , "autox list" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:49:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? >> I just have a problem with an ESP Camaro with an aftermarket FI system, a >> cam, 17x11 wheels and aftermarket rear control arms being in EM. >> >> Mike ============================== No problem, just add a Vortech or Paxton huffer running about 6-8 psi and _really_ be in EM. ;^) And still be able to drive it to the grocery store (or gas station) if ya wanted to. Oh yeah, and the ESP Camaro shouldn't have a "cam" and still remain legal. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 22:04:10 1999 From: Jason Bowles To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:01:32 -0400 Subject: How to do things at a divisional This will be my first divisional this weekend and while reading the rules and procedures, I have come to some questions. 1. During tech inspection do you have to have the race tires installed? I will be teching friday night. 2. Will they switch courses like at national events (ie north course and south course etc)? 3. Is there anything else special I should know about compared to other autocrosses? Thanks for the help Jason Dodge Neon CSP 3 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 22:20:23 1999 From: "Deanne" To: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:17:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? >> I just have a problem with an ESP Camaro with an aftermarket FI system, a > cam, 17x11 wheels and aftermarket rear control arms being in EM. > Mike I certainly understand your problem Mike.......how about a 98 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, running stock wheels/tires, no exhaust mod, a K&N cone filter and a .3" smaller supercharger pulley having to run in EM. Basically bone stock but the smaller pulley pretty much kills any chance of my car doing really good in autox competition. It was rather competitive in ESP (although it definitely did not have a clear advantage) before I learned the pulley put me in EM. Now I've noticed my times are beat by about 8-10 seconds on an average course. Oh well, at least it is fun. Deanne From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 22:48:23 1999 From: Paul and Meredith Brown To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:45:56 -0600 Subject: Street tires FS, car prep I have a pair of 205/55-16 BFG Comp-ZRs I have no further use for. They had about 1000 miles on them when Meredith wrecked the Laser, I still had the takeoffs, and it seemed silly to send the nice new tires off to the junkyard. I'll have them in the truck at both Atwater and Peru (god, what an absurd schedule!) Autox content: Mike Smith wrote: >From: "msmith2" >Subject: Re: National Tour points > >I thought that was what Pro Solo was for..... > >To give the people who wanna spend thousands blueprinting everything on >their stock class car a place to play with others like them and leaving the >more 'amateur-ish' members who wanna just show up and drive to play in >Solo2. I think you are a bit confused here. There may be a few people around who go to the trouble of doing this sort of thing, but they are in the minority, even at the top. Or maybe I should say ESPECIALLY at the top. If the car is running right, there just isn't much to be gained by blueprinting everything. Some cars have a weakness, and people will tend to get everything else working well, then spend their time on the weakness. What I'm talking about here is things like the posi in a 3rd-gen F-Body. Damn few of us are made of money, so we are very careful and try to be efficient about using it to maximum advantage. Often, there's a simple, CHEAP way to accomplish something. MTL works really nicely in some transmissions. A good tuneup right before Nationals is a good idea. Stuff like that. There are an awful lot of cars which have never had the engine taken apart, but which have won championships. I remember Rob Falkner telling me about this sort of thing back when he ran a 1st-gen MR2. Seems there were a group of these running in the San Diego area, and Rob always won by large margins. The other guys started making pointed remarks about the legality of his car. So one day he took some runs in the others, after he'd finished the day in his. And he outran his times in most of the others. In most cases, it's not the hardware that's particularly fast.... Paul and Meredith Brown MR2: "Not the easiest car in the world to work on" From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 22:49:25 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "George Ryan" , Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:52:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? From: George Ryan >Is there anybody out there that has actually taken an SP car >and prepared it to the rules in the Prepared catagory? Ron and Karen Babb spring to mind. Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Tue Apr 27 23:58:17 1999 From: "john matthews" To: rboot8i7@mwc.edu, autox@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:56:52 PDT Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars Here's a definitive statement. Anyone who wants to use their head as a roll bar will get exactly as much protection as they need. ;^) JM From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 00:14:50 1999 From: Alan Dahl To: "Phil Ethier" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:12:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? At 11:52 PM 4/27/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Is there anybody out there that has actually taken an SP car >>and prepared it to the rules in the Prepared catagory? > >Ron and Karen Babb spring to mind. And now they are taking the same car and going to DM with it. - Alan Dahl ---------- ___ ____ Alan Dahl | home: adahl@eskimo.com /_ / / / Federal Way, WA, USA | work: Alan.Dahl@PSS.boeing.com / / _/__/ ---------------- http://www.eskimo.com/~adahl ------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 00:33:12 1999 From: SpeedPak@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:31:38 EDT Subject: Integra AutoXing All good advice..Heel and Toe is good...Unfortunatly Im not all that good at it yet...Regardless to give you some ideas for alignments, I am running 1/8 inch toe out in the front zero in the rear, and the stock camber. When I ran Pirelli Pzero Street tyres last year I was running 44front and 48 rear. Hope that gives you a few data points. Faisal #62 SpeedPak Racing Integra R 98-0062 The He-Man technique does come in handy once in while. However, proper heel and toe downshifting will really help you out with the Integra. I have been practicing for about a year and am finally comfortable using it during competition runs. If you can find it, fellow team.netter Phil Ethier has written a very good article on the technique. (You usually can find it posted somewhere, use altavista or another search engine.) Another good source is the book called "Bob Bondurant on High Performance Driving." The technique is explained in words and pictures. Tim Malzahn 97 Integra GS-R >>> "Chris McCann" 04/23/99 01:05AM >>> I have a '95 GS-R and am just a beginner as of now...just did a McKamey school.... ...and myself (and a much more seasoned driver with a '98 GS-R) were reccomended by many just to leave it in 2nd ... i suppose it would depend on the course, but in 2nd gear i was hitting the fat part of the powerband just when i was coming to a brake point...though it IS a royal pain to get it in 1st... is there trick to that shift? (Besides the He-Man technique...) It seems really tough to do, especially without upsetting the car... I also want to start messing with tire pressure and alignment later in the season but am looking for some (street tires) starting points (so I'm not screwing around with that too much when i should be learning to drive...) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 00:42:57 1999 From: Jason Bowles To: SpeedPak@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:40:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing At When I ran Pirelli Pzero Street tyres last year I was running >44front and 48 rear. Hope that gives you a few data points. 48 in the rear???? thats way too high! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 05:11:34 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:13:13 -0500 Subject: Quad 4 Racer help needed Rex I have run a Q4 in my Fiero for years. And, yes - I have experienced a clicking after runs. Initially, I thought it was the terrifiic heat conditions we in the Midwest run in. My oil pressure was low after a run or series of runs. The ticking seemed to subside for a short while after an oil change, but would return. The noise was there only immediately after a run, and after it "cooled down", was almost unnoticeable. I installled an oil cooler, and ran a heavier weight oil (Valvoline 50 Racing oil). The ticking seemed to not be near as prominent, but was still there. My oil pressure was certainly better!! At one point, I thought it was in the timing chain, and changed that. . The noise went away for almost a season after the timing chain change, then returned. The Fiero has been running with this engine since 1991, I have had no negative problems resulting from that many years of racing it. The "ticking" noise, whatever it is, has had no impact. On teardown, nothing of consequence was noticed in the engine. My new engine has the oiling mods run by IMSA in the road racing Achievas, and I haven't had it running as yet. It will soon have a belt drive, so if I have the noise again it will most definately be internal!! I am forwarding a copy of this to my (and IMSA) Q4 engine builder, Tim at Mantapart. Maybe he can offer some insight. G ---------- Original Message ---------- I have a problem with my GM 2.3L Quad 4. It has a lifter ticking after runs at auto-xes. I am hoping that someone experienced with this engine can help me. Thanks! - -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 92,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 160,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html ------------------------------ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 06:15:28 1999 From: washburn To: Deanne Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:10:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller pulley? Deanne wrote: > I certainly understand your problem Mike.......how about a 98 Pontiac Grand > Prix GTP, running stock wheels/tires, no exhaust mod, a K&N cone filter and > a .3" smaller supercharger pulley having to run in EM. Basically bone > stock but the smaller pulley pretty much kills any chance of my car doing > really good in autox competition. It was rather competitive in ESP > (although it definitely did not have a clear advantage) before I learned the > pulley put me in EM. Now I've noticed my times are beat by about 8-10 > seconds on an average course. Oh well, at least it is fun. Just out of curiousity, why do you need the pulley? -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 06:19:09 1999 From: washburn To: George Ryan Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:14:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Quad 4 Racer help needed George Ryan wrote: > > Rex > > I have run a Q4 in my Fiero for years. And, yes - I have experienced > a clicking after runs. I don't think this is terribly unusual. I experienced the same thing with my Audi 4K. It just goes away after awhile, and has never resulted in an ill effects hat I can tell. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 06:24:40 1999 From: washburn To: Jason Bowles Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:20:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing Jason Bowles wrote: > > At When I ran Pirelli Pzero Street tyres last year I was running > >44front and 48 rear. Hope that gives you a few data points. > > 48 in the rear???? thats way too high! The thing I am learning about rear set up, including tire pressures, is that it is a matter of personal preference more than anything. You can point to the leading car and say "Well he (or she) has XXX set up in the rear, so it must be the right way". Doesn't work for all drivers. It works for them because they are comfortable with the way it feels, and can acurately predict the handling characteristics based on their seat time. I've seen two identicle cars with very different rear end set ups run almost the same times. It's usually the driver! I often tell new comers that there is no single right way to do anything in AX. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 07:03:59 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "Team.Net" , "Jason Bowles" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:02:10 -0500 Subject: Re: How to do things at a divisional Since no one else has responded, I'll take a crack at it. First and foremost, consult with the event organizer and the Divisional Solo Steward for any special stipulations that may apply to your particular event. These stips are usually published as "Supplemental Rules". 1. Usually, tires do not need to be installed. However, competitors are usually expected to have all the tires they expect to use during the event tech'd before the first runs begin. Generally, tires are not protestable after that point in time. Consult your Sups. 2. Unless your division is blessed with acres and acres of pavement, the usual procedure is to reverse direction of the course between Saturday and Sunday. A few strategic cones may be moved, added, or deleted for safety. This means only one course has to be set up, and torn down Saturday night, giving more people time to socialize. Consult your Sups. 3. One of the purposes of Divisional and National Tour events is to prepare competitors for the National Championship procedure. This means that every run group reports to impound immediately after their runs. This gives other competitors the opportunity to inspect each others cars and file protest (except for tires) if they are so inclined. This is a part of every Nat Tour and will probably be a part of your Divisional. Again, consult your Sups. Lastly, consult your Sups. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Bowles To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:01 PM Subject: How to do things at a divisional > This will be my first divisional this weekend and while reading the rules > and procedures, I have come to some questions. > > 1. During tech inspection do you have to have the race tires installed? I > will be teching friday night. > > 2. Will they switch courses like at national events (ie north course and > south course etc)? > > 3. Is there anything else special I should know about compared to other > autocrosses? > > Thanks for the help > Jason > Dodge Neon CSP 3 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 07:15:43 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'john matthews'" , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:10:21 -0500 Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >>Anyone who wants to use their head as a roll bar will get exactly as much protection as they need. ;^)<< Just to set things straight, I believe this thread was originally about what constitutes "closed" vs. "open" cars, and had nothing to do with rollbars or the lack thereof. In my particular case, I have a rollbar that surpasses SCCA standards for "closed" cars, but it does not meet the height requirement for "open" cars. (If it did, I would never be able to put the top up) I, and others, compete in this configuration with other organizations by bolting on the factory hardtop, thus falling under "closed" car rules. Is this acceptable per SCCA regulations for Solo I? Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 07:16:11 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: solo2atlanta@ilist.net, autox@autox.team.net, bspvette@mailinglist.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:23:21 -0400 Subject: Last chance to pre-register SEDIV Pre-registration for the BFGoodrich Team T/A, SF Motorsports Southeast Divisional by EMAIL closes at the end of today. Avoid the $20 late entry fee by registering NOW. Go to http://www.atl-scca.org and jump to the Solo II information page, then click on the link to the SEDIV website for registration. This first event of the 1999 SEDIV series will be held at Atlanta Motor Speedway in Hampton, Georgia (near Atlanta) April 30-May 2. The big news is that we will be using the whole 13 acre lot for a course with parking/paddock on an adjacent lot. The weather forcast is for high of 66 on Friday with partly cloudy skies, highs in the mid-70s for Saturday and Sunday with partly cloudy on Saturday and mostly sunny on Sunday. See you this weekend!! Ben Thatcher event chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 07:24:05 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: washburn@dwave.net, quad4fiero@webzone.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:22:36 PDT Subject: Re: Quad 4 Racer help needed does the quad4 have hydraulic tappets, I know the bmw M52 motors are notorous for the same symptoms, every one tapps after a run, the tapets need time to build up oil press again. then the car is fine, they do the same thing on first startup. for a second or two... I know on these motors it is normal.. Jeff > >I don't think this is terribly unusual. I experienced the same thing >with my Audi 4K. It just goes away after awhile, and has never resulted >in an ill effects hat I can tell. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 07:33:36 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:36:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Quad 4 Racer help needed > I have run a Q4 in my Fiero for years. And, yes - I have experienced > a clicking after runs. Forgive me for suggesting the blatantly obvious, but have you checked the oil? :) Seriously - someone I know had a ticking in his VW GTI after a run. Turned out he was a little low on oil. He topped it off, and no more ticking. The phenomenon itself is fairly common - I've also heard it in a brand spankin new BMW Z3 2.8 coupe. - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 07:43:45 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: TeamZ3@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:37:03 -0400 Subject: Are you thinking BSP? Mark, Are you considering coming out to play in BSP? That would be great. However, I would suggest a nice C4 Corvette . Ben ================================================================== From: TeamZ3@aol.com Subject: BSP Datsun Z questions Can anyone tell me what a reasonable expectation is for a Datsun 240/260/280Z in full BSP trim with regard to: Horsepower/torque Weight Rear gear ratio Wheel size TIA, M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 07:44:19 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: jbowles@carol.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:48:53 -0400 Subject: Subject: How to do things at a divisional From: Jason Bowles Subject: How to do things at a divisional This will be my first divisional this weekend and while reading the rules and procedures, I have come to some questions. 1. During tech inspection do you have to have the race tires installed? I will be teching friday night. A: No, just have them there to inspect. 2. Will they switch courses like at national events (ie north course and south course etc)? A: The Sunday course will be essentially the Saturday course in reverse. Some other changes will be necessary, however. 3. Is there anything else special I should know about compared to other autocrosses? Read the rules about car markings. You also should have a 1999 Solo rulebook (available at the site if you don't have one). Other than a much higher level of competition than you usually see at a local event, and the chance to rub shoulders with the best of the Southeast, it will be basically the same. Ben Thatcher SEDIV #1 event chair Thanks for the help Jason Dodge Neon CSP 3 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 08:19:59 1999 From: GMAnkeny@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:18:29 EDT Subject: Atwater Pro-Kumho Tire Support????? Does anyone know if the Kumho truck will be at the Atwater Pro--Guy (asking for others ) Ankeny From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 08:31:41 1999 From: "Fedja Jeleskovic" To: Joehgn@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:26:11 -0400 Subject: Re: 1991 Eagle Talon TSI - in automatic Oh yes! The come with little 350 injectors and the turbo that is even smaller than T25 from 95+ cars (I think it is something called TD04 - versa TD05 that manual cars have). Power steering would still be a problem! Fedja 95 AWD #34 ESP Joehgn@aol.com on 04/26/99 09:02:51 AM Please respond to Joehgn@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net cc: (bcc: Fedja Jeleskovic/PicTel) Subject: 1991 Eagle Talon TSI - in automatic Hey, any comments on how the above car would fair in G Stock. Saw one cheap and started dreaming about Turbo power. Is there any major reason (other than it is auto-trans) this car should be avioded?? Thanks, Joe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 08:47:24 1999 From: "Ron Ver Mulm" To: "Robert K. Marcho" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:49:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Hoosier 275/45X16 experience? Bob, I think it should be mentioned you are running the '97 A3S02 tire and not the current A3S03 tire which has a different compound and construction. The '97 A3S02 tire compound was a 'soft' roadrace compound which heat cycled too fast for roadrace use but worked well for autocross use. We've not noticed the current A3S03 tire to heat cycle and it seems to store better than the old compound. Hope this helps, Ron Ver Mulm #38CP R & S Racing Inc. (888)261-1243US (515)462-3432 http://www.rsracing.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert K. Marcho To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 10:47 AM Subject: Hoosier 275/45X16 experience? >Having run them for two seasons on my FS 1998 M6 Z28 I can say they >are great to start with, but seem to age quickly. Great the first >few weekends, but performance starts to suffer while they still >have tread left. When we first put them on my son (Oh, how I hate >to admit he is faster than me!) beat the local hot shoe, now we >can't get within a second. Unlimited budget (dream on), I'd go with >them as my first choice. Limited budget (reality), I'm going to the >Kumhos for my next purchase next month. > >I refuse to admit that it is anything other than tires that has >slowed us down. I guess next month we won't have any excuses, or we >will be competitive again. > >Bob "Denial-Does-Wonders-for-the-Ego" Marcho From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 08:50:09 1999 From: WHEELSPNR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:47:26 EDT Subject: Where to buy Kumho's .. best price ? Gotta take the plunge .. Kumho's ... need some 17's and (2) 18's .... first, does Kumho mfg 18's for a Vette ? Need info ASAP !! JC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 08:59:25 1999 From: Dave Hillman To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: re: Peru Pro Hotels "David Hawkins" wrote... > Since I got my confirmation post card today, I figured I'd > finally get off my duff and reserve a room for the Peru ProSolo. > > At the recommendation of my co-driver, I made an online > reservation at the Knight's Inn in Peru....Wow! $32 a night! Damn, they charged me $48 when I made my reservation a few weeks ago. > They have a lot of rooms left available. Mine must be a suite. -- D a v i d H i l l m a n scca, nma, scscc, imoc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 09:07:40 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: Dave Hillman Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:01:15 -0700 Subject: re: Peru Pro Hotels Just called...all booked. AB "David Hawkins" wrote... > Since I got my confirmation post card today, I figured I'd > finally get off my duff and reserve a room for the Peru ProSolo. > > At the recommendation of my co-driver, I made an online > reservation at the Knight's Inn in Peru....Wow! $32 a night! Damn, they charged me $48 when I made my reservation a few weeks ago. > They have a lot of rooms left available. Mine must be a suite. -- D a v i d H i l l m a n scca, nma, scscc, imoc From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 09:09:42 1999 From: "Robert K. Marcho" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:07:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Hoosier 275/45X16 experience? At 09:49 AM 4/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >Bob, >I think it should be mentioned you are running the '97 A3S02 tire and not >the current A3S03 tire which has a different compound and construction. The >'97 A3S02 tire compound was a 'soft' roadrace compound which heat cycled too >fast for roadrace use but worked well for autocross use. We've not noticed >the current A3S03 tire to heat cycle and it seems to store better than the >old compound. >Hope this helps, >Ron Ver Mulm >#38CP >R & S Racing Inc. >(888)261-1243US >(515)462-3432 >http://www.rsracing.com Thanks for the clarification Ron. Indeed, mine are the A3S02. I didn't mention that I've always bagged immediately after each event and left them bagged until the next event. Is this good or bad? I've also decided to try Formula V to bring them back for one last event with ER in Dallas May 9. Have you ever tried this stuff? I painted on my first application last night. We are going to run the tires on my son's C4 Vette in a few ER events. I know they are a little small compared to the optimum tire size for stock early rims (his is an 85), but we can't afford anything bigger now. Sure didn't mean to bad-mouth the Hoosiers. I repeat, I still think they are the hot setup if you can afford new ones regularly. And it might be that they come back after treatment. If we they do, then we will probably order some more from you. Maybe not for awhile, Neal Bellamy gave me his A3S03 take-offs this past weekend. Not sure how many runs left in them, but they were free. By the way, I've referred everybody to you if they are going to go with Hoosiers. I even run your decal on the car. You gave us great service. I just wish we were still 1st like a few occasions last year, instead of 2nd each week this year. Bob Dr. Robert K. Marcho Abilene Christian University Graduate School of Theology Box 29430 Abilene, TX 79699 marcho@Bible.acu.edu 1-888-242-5360 (Toll free) FAX (915)674-3776 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 09:27:43 1999 From: Craig Blome To: Justin Hughes , autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Quad 4 Racer help needed Conversely, too much oil can also aggravate ticking. Case in point: The Miata 1.8l engine has a 4.3 qt crankcase capacity. A couple of times, the dealer put in 5 quarts at an oil change, and ticking was much worse. I started specifying 4 quarts only and ticking went almost completely away. I suspect the crankshaft was probably aerating the additional oil and reducing pressure to the top end. Craig Blome Texas Spokes SCC, Austin, TX --- Justin Hughes wrote: > > Forgive me for suggesting the blatantly obvious, but > have you checked the > oil? :) Seriously - someone I know had a ticking in > his VW GTI after a run. > Turned out he was a little low on oil. He topped it > off, and no more > ticking. The phenomenon itself is fairly common - > I've also heard it in a > brand spankin new BMW Z3 2.8 coupe. > > - Justin > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 09:38:33 1999 From: "Richard Holden" To: Jenaro Rodriguez Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:39:02 -0600 Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions >From: Jenaro Rodriguez > > > Richard Holden wrote: > >> >From: TeamZ3@aol.com >> >To: autox@autox.team.net >> >Subject: BSP Datsun Z questions >> >Date: Tue, Apr 27, 1999, 12:07 PM >> > >> >> > Can anyone tell me what a reasonable expectation is for a Datsun 240/260/280Z >> > in full BSP trim with regard to: >> > >> > Horsepower/torque >> 200 bhp should be reasonable don't know about the torque, contact Rebello >> for absolute max. John Banks claims 180 hp at 6000 rpm at the rear wheels >> in an AP Datsun from dyno runs which probably calculates to 230 to 240 bhp >> and his car is very strong. > > 200 HP? That sounds a little conservative for a car that came with 175 HP stock in > a couple of models. My old '76 280Z was supposed to have 175 HP stock. At least > that's what it said in the engine compartment. With no restrictions on intake and > and exhaust I'd think more than 25 extra HP should be available. Just a thought. > > Jay All the after market parts claim x amount of hp gain from just bolting on the part. I saw a Mikuni add once for a Z car setup that said "add 50 hp". Also have seen adds claiming 25 hp gains from this free flow exhaust system. So it seems that you could add 75 hp to 175 and get 250 with just carbs and exhaust, but this is one time that the total does not equal the sum of its parts. Performance add ons may require additional prep such as more compression, cams and higher rpms to work efficiently and to make the full power they claim. I think the cars were probably over rated on HP from the factory. That sports car thing, you know. They also had 160 mph on the speedometer which many people thought meant that they could go that fast. Some even claimed they saw 150 readings on those speedometers. The cars in stock trim would only muster 115 to 120. You would need to contact Rebello for verification, but I think I recall a magazine article quoting Rebello as getting 220 hp max out of a "stock motor". I think they are getting 240 hp following the new E Production rules for SCCA road race. I don't mean to under rate the available power from a Z car. I love them. I have owned a Z since 1974 and autocrossed a Z since 1976. They can be made to be very fast and to handle well. I think people like to quote large horsepower numbers that are just not accurate. In a fully race prepared motor with 2.8L, 14 or 15 to 1 compression turning 8000+ rpm you can make 300+ horsepower. With a stock cam, 9 to 1 compression, turning 6000 rpm you can't make much over 200 hp. Call Rebello, they'll give you the scoop and try to sell you an engine. Richard Holden > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 09:44:39 1999 From: "msmith2" To: "autox list" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:43:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? I'd still get killed by the current EM cars. It doesn't have the cam or the rear control arms - yet. You ever seen stock Camaro rear control arms? Yecch! Mike > No problem, just add a Vortech or Paxton huffer running about 6-8 psi and > _really_ be in EM. ;^) > > And still be able to drive it to the grocery store (or gas station) if ya > wanted to. > > Oh yeah, and the ESP Camaro shouldn't have a "cam" and still remain legal. > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 09:46:47 1999 From: "Bill Fuhrmann" To: "Deanne" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:42:16 -0500 Subject: RE: Why smaller pulley? > > a .3" smaller supercharger pulley having to run in EM. Basically bone > > stock but the smaller pulley pretty much kills any chance of my > car doing > > really good in autox competition. It was rather competitive in ESP > Just out of curiousity, why do you need the pulley? And, (if being competitive is important to you) why not just pull it and drop back to stock where you could do really well. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:08:33 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: jbowles@carol.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:05:46 EDT Subject: Re: How to do things at a divisional jbowles@carol.net writes: > > 1. During tech inspection do you have to have the race tires installed? I > will be teching friday night. Technically yes, as listed in the Solo2 Rulebook tech inspection pages, but they haven't at the last several National Tour events I've been to. > 2. Will they switch courses like at national events (ie north course and > south course etc)? The SEDiv typically runs the course in reverse the 2nd day, usually with slight modifications to the start and finish areas. > 3. Is there anything else special I should know about compared to other > autocrosses? No. M Sipe SEDiv Solo2 Deputy Steward From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:10:36 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: rholden@mail.scs.k12.tn.us, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:07:40 EDT Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions The Z-car websites are stating 150 hp stock for the 240Z with a 3.9 rear gear for manual trans. Are these incorrect? M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:19:23 1999 From: "Anthony R. Salinas" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:16:02 EDT Subject: CRX 13x7" wheel offset? autox's, i am looking to buy some 13x7" wheels for a 90 crx for csp and was curious what offset is need for proper wheel clearence in a turn? also, what is the most popular tire(manufacture/size) for this combination? thanks `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' Anthony R. Salinas GM-VSAS - Vehicle Dynamics Analysis Group Phone: 810.986.2594 (Outside) 8.226.2594 (Internal) Fax: 810.986.8887 (Outside) Email: wzndcq@wtc.scg.gmeds.com `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:19:45 1999 From: "john matthews" To: tgentry@execpc.com, john__matthews@hotmail.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:18:09 PDT Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars Hi Tom, I belive the bolt on hardtop combined with your rollbar is sufficient for solo 1 activities. However, you should check with your local tech steward for a "definitive" answer;^). In our region we have a "travel tech" program where a tech inspector will come to your garage for a modest fee and tech your car ahead of time. Cheeers, John Matthews >From: Tom Gentry >To: "'john matthews'" ,"autox@autox.team.net" >Subject: RE: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars >Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:10:21 -0500 > >>>Anyone who wants to use their head as a roll bar will get exactly as much protection as they need. ;^)<< > >Just to set things straight, I believe this thread was originally about what constitutes "closed" vs. "open" cars, and had nothing to do with rollbars or the lack thereof. In my particular case, I have a rollbar that surpasses SCCA standards for "closed" cars, but it does not meet the height requirement for "open" cars. (If it did, I would never be able to put the top up) I, and others, compete in this configuration with other organizations by bolting on the factory hardtop, thus falling under "closed" car rules. > >Is this acceptable per SCCA regulations for Solo I? > >Tom Gentry >Life is too short to drive boring cars! >'96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) >'72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) >'59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) ><< attach3 >> From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:20:20 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:16:12 -0700 Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions Hopefully this will be taken as the constructive comment it's intended to be. :) When at a recent practice in San Diego, which was specifically set up for novices (applause, please!), while working the course I had an opportunity to watch two or more vintage Z cars at work. Because both experienced and novice drivers were on the course at the sime time, what I saw wasn't necessarily limited to novices, but may have been. These particular Zs were understeering something fierce, plowing through every corner. Must have been pretty frustrating, and points to what I've learned while prepping my Mustang SVO for ESP (or is it FSP now, noone seems to know). More power is good, better handling is "gooder". I know it's a little "off topic" but germane. It's easy to get bogged down in the search for more power -- I certainly have focused a lot of attention on the limits of SP in this area -- but my being taught more technique at that practice, and improving the car's handling, have also made huge gains for me. Just my 2 cents. :) Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Holden To: Jenaro Rodriguez Cc: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 8:40 AM Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions > > >>From: Jenaro Rodriguez > > >> >> >> Richard Holden wrote: >> >>> >From: TeamZ3@aol.com >>> >To: autox@autox.team.net >>> >Subject: BSP Datsun Z questions >>> >Date: Tue, Apr 27, 1999, 12:07 PM >>> > >>> >>> > Can anyone tell me what a reasonable expectation is for a Datsun >240/260/280Z >>> > in full BSP trim with regard to: >>> > >>> > Horsepower/torque >>> 200 bhp should be reasonable don't know about the torque, contact Rebello >>> for absolute max. John Banks claims 180 hp at 6000 rpm at the rear wheels >>> in an AP Datsun from dyno runs which probably calculates to 230 to 240 bhp >>> and his car is very strong. >> >> 200 HP? That sounds a little conservative for a car that came with 175 HP >stock in >> a couple of models. My old '76 280Z was supposed to have 175 HP stock. At >least >> that's what it said in the engine compartment. With no restrictions on intake >and >> and exhaust I'd think more than 25 extra HP should be available. Just a >thought. >> >> Jay > >All the after market parts claim x amount of hp gain from just bolting on >the part. I saw a Mikuni add once for a Z car setup that said "add 50 hp". >Also have seen adds claiming 25 hp gains from this free flow exhaust system. >So it seems that you could add 75 hp to 175 and get 250 with just carbs and >exhaust, but this is one time that the total does not equal the sum of its >parts. Performance add ons may require additional prep such as more >compression, cams and higher rpms to work efficiently and to make the full >power they claim. I think the cars were probably over rated on HP from the >factory. That sports car thing, you know. They also had 160 mph on the >speedometer which many people thought meant that they could go that fast. >Some even claimed they saw 150 readings on those speedometers. The cars in >stock trim would only muster 115 to 120. You would need to contact Rebello >for verification, but I think I recall a magazine article quoting Rebello as >getting 220 hp max out of a "stock motor". I think they are getting 240 hp >following the new E Production rules for SCCA road race. I don't mean to >under rate the available power from a Z car. I love them. I have owned a Z >since 1974 and autocrossed a Z since 1976. They can be made to be very fast >and to handle well. I think people like to quote large horsepower numbers >that are just not accurate. In a fully race prepared motor with 2.8L, 14 or >15 to 1 compression turning 8000+ rpm you can make 300+ horsepower. With a >stock cam, 9 to 1 compression, turning 6000 rpm you can't make much over 200 >hp. Call Rebello, they'll give you the scoop and try to sell you an engine. > >Richard Holden >> From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:28:18 1999 From: "Ron Bauer" To: "washburn" , "Jason Bowles" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:21:57 -0000 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing While what you say is true that different drivers sometimes like things a little different, I don't think that normally there should be a large disparity from car to car. Personally, I prefer the rear end to be a tiny bit loose, however, Annie Gill and I run her Type R with 36 pounds front and rear on Kumhos with the big 225/50/15 all the way around. This seems to be against the "norm" of what all of the other Type R drivers have been doing. They have been running 225's in the front and 205's in the rear to help oversteer. I think driving style can make a difference, and I still have no problem with getting some rear end rotation. As with any car, if you drive it to fast into a turn, it's most likely going to understeer. Increasing rear pressures to "compensate" for this will not help. Ron Bauer '98 Integra Type R Team Butt Heat ronbauer@aa.net -----Original Message----- From: washburn To: Jason Bowles Cc: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing >Jason Bowles wrote: >> >> At When I ran Pirelli Pzero Street tyres last year I was running >> >44front and 48 rear. Hope that gives you a few data points. >> >> 48 in the rear???? thats way too high! > >The thing I am learning about rear set up, including tire pressures, is >that it is a matter of personal preference more than anything. You can >point to the leading car and say "Well he (or she) has XXX set up in the >rear, so it must be the right way". Doesn't work for all drivers. It >works for them because they are comfortable with the way it feels, and >can acurately predict the handling characteristics based on their seat >time. I've seen two identicle cars with very different rear end set ups >run almost the same times. It's usually the driver! I often tell new >comers that there is no single right way to do anything in AX. >-- >Patrick Washburn >Wausau, WI Land of Cheese >95 DS Neon >Moooooooooo. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:29:20 1999 From: whitney To: "Anthony R. Salinas" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:26:43 -0700 Subject: Re: CRX 13x7" wheel offset? The early cars could run 5-6" of backspace (most of the wheel suppliers you will talk to will deal with backspace, not offset numbers) - you should be able to land somewhere there. You will want to talk to Keizer, duralight, MRT etc. Any reason you don't want to go to a 13x8 or 13x9? that is really the hot setup for the available tires right now - unless you will be moving to prepared ;) Stan At 12:16 PM 4/28/99 EDT, Anthony R. Salinas wrote: >autox's, > >i am looking to buy some 13x7" wheels for a 90 crx for csp and was curious >what offset is need for proper wheel clearence in a turn? > >also, what is the most popular tire(manufacture/size) for this combination? > >thanks > >`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' >Anthony R. Salinas >GM-VSAS - Vehicle Dynamics Analysis Group >Phone: 810.986.2594 (Outside) > 8.226.2594 (Internal) >Fax: 810.986.8887 (Outside) >Email: wzndcq@wtc.scg.gmeds.com >`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:32:48 1999 From: "Ron Bauer" To: , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:26:30 -0000 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing Now that I've been driving the Type R for awhile, I've found that on a number of courses, you can keep it in 2nd gear and not hurt yourself. However, to be driven as quickly as the car can be driven, you will have to downshift occasionally. Heel and Toe is THE only way to make sure that this is done without upsetting the car. If you "he-man" the downshift, you'll lose more time from the car being out of balance than you will gain from the power advantage. My suggestion is to learn how to do it and practice it all the time. Any stickshift I drive in an autocross or on the street, is driven with heel and toe downshifts. I do this regardless of whether it's aggressive driving or not. The more you can practice things in a real world environment, the better prepared you'll be at the autocross. Ron Bauer '98 Acura Integra Type R Team Butt Heat ronbauer@aa.net -----Original Message----- From: SpeedPak@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 6:32 AM Subject: Integra AutoXing >All good advice..Heel and Toe is good...Unfortunatly Im not all that good at >it yet...Regardless to give you some ideas for alignments, I am running 1/8 >inch toe out in the front zero in the rear, and the stock >camber. When I ran Pirelli Pzero Street tyres last year I was running >44front and 48 rear. Hope that gives you a few data points. > >Faisal >#62 SpeedPak Racing >Integra R 98-0062 > >The He-Man technique does come in handy once in while. However, proper heel >and toe downshifting will really help you out with the Integra. > >I have been practicing for about a year and am finally comfortable using it >during competition runs. If you can find it, fellow team.netter Phil Ethier >has written a very good article on the technique. (You usually can find it >posted somewhere, use altavista or another search engine.) Another good >source is the book called "Bob Bondurant on High Performance Driving." The >technique is explained in words and pictures. > >Tim Malzahn >97 Integra GS-R > >>>> "Chris McCann" 04/23/99 01:05AM >>> >I have a '95 GS-R and am just a beginner as of now...just did a McKamey >school.... >...and myself (and a much more seasoned driver with a '98 GS-R) were >reccomended by many just to leave it in 2nd ... i suppose it would depend on >the course, but in 2nd gear i was hitting the fat part of the powerband just >when i was coming to a brake point...though it IS a royal pain to get it in >1st... is there trick to that shift? (Besides the He-Man technique...) It >seems really tough to do, especially without upsetting the car... > >I also want to start messing with tire pressure and alignment later in the >season but am looking for some (street tires) starting points (so I'm not >screwing around with that too much when i should be learning to drive...) > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 10:46:13 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:45:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Where to buy Kumho's .. best price ? Not yet for 18" tarz ;-( sbw 1-888-77KUMHO sbw -----Original Message----- From: WHEELSPNR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 7:50 AM Subject: Where to buy Kumho's .. best price ? >Gotta take the plunge .. Kumho's ... need some 17's and (2) 18's .... first, >does Kumho mfg 18's for a Vette ? > >Need info ASAP !! > >JC > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 11:17:24 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:15:19 -0400 Subject: Re: A Great Tan? Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > No, the worst is the dreaded Farmer Brown tan...snow white chest and golden > arms... Ohhh, I can do you one better than that. I went to a Canadian Military College, and every May there's the big Graduation Parade - which, of course means a week of 8 hour long parade practices, in the sun, near a big reflective river, wearing a pillbox hat. That hat covers half of your forehead on a 45 degree angle, and it has a chinstrap to keep it in place. After 7 days in the sun wearing that thing, you get a nice white triangle on your forehead and a white stripe about 1/4" across connecting your ears to your chin - and no matter what you do for the rest of the summer, you just can't get it to even out. That is without question the _dorkiest_ tan one can possibly have. The only guy I ever knew there who didn't get that tan was a fair-skinned, red-headed friend of mine who was so sun-sensitive that he practically burst into flame when exposed to sunlight. HE covered his entire face in bright white zinc oxide during the parade - and so looked like some sort of militant mime for a week instead. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 11:50:06 1999 From: "Darren P. Madams" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:44:40 -0700 Subject: How did the 6 speed miata do? Who was it who was running their new 10th edition 6 speed Miata last weekend and how did it perform? How was the course and did the shorter gears benefit it any? Can any consensus be made yet? --Darren Always looking for next years car From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 11:50:37 1999 From: "Mohler, Jeff" To: "'WHEELSPNR@aol.com'" , autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:49:42 -0500 Subject: RE: Where to buy Kumho's .. best price ? Kuhmo has no 18s at all. Very sad..as id LOVE two or three sets for next year. > -----Original Message----- > From: WHEELSPNR@aol.com [SMTP:WHEELSPNR@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 9:47 AM > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Where to buy Kumho's .. best price ? > > Gotta take the plunge .. Kumho's ... need some 17's and (2) 18's .... > first, > does Kumho mfg 18's for a Vette ? > > Need info ASAP !! > > JC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 12:19:47 1999 From: Tyler Jones To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:38:04 -0500 Subject: Change oil Before or After Races on daily driver? For a dual purpose daily driver, 2 day a month auto-xer, what do you think is the best protection for the oil system? Its a 90 Honda crx, but would apply to any car I think. Do you change it before so that the engine has fresh oil and a fresh filter for best pressure, or after to rid the system of any contamination, or both??? I think changing it more than once or twice a month, which works out to about every 700-1500 miles is a little excessive, or is it? Currently i change it a day or two before to stabilize the level, check for leaks, etc. Tyler Jones From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 12:39:26 1999 From: mikelowe@pop.c-com.net To: tyjones@ciris.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:34:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Change oil Before or After Races on daily driver? > From: Tyler Jones > For a dual purpose daily driver, 2 day a month auto-xer, what do you think > is the best protection for the oil system? Its a 90 Honda crx, but would > apply to any car I think. > > Do you change it before so that the engine has fresh oil and a fresh filter > for best pressure, or after to rid the system of any contamination, or > both??? I think changing it more than once or twice a month, which works > out to about every 700-1500 miles is a little excessive, or is it? Don't worry about autox runs affecting the oil. The effect is minimal. That half mile trip to the store to buy those gherkins you adore does more damage to the oil. :-) I stick to a 3000-3500 mile changing schedule no matter how many autox runs I do and I can do quite a few during a practice session. Doing a lapping session is another matter. Spending a few _hours_ rather than seconds near redline will probably affect the oil. I'm assuming you're using good oil to begn with. If you use 99 cent no-name stuff, you get what you pay for. Mobil 1 is cheap insurance for me. Hope this helps, Mike Lowe mikelowe@phoenix.net http://www.phoenix.net/~mikelowe Texas A&M Sports Car Club Houston Region SCCA Miata Club of America '96 Miata R BS 93 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:15:20 1999 From: GSMnow@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:13:49 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Cycling G-Forces Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:35:17 EDT From: Smokerbros@aol.com >Well, the 3rd set of G-Forces arrived this week. They were heat cycled at >Tire Rack. Before the Atwater Pro Solo, should we >1) heat cycle them on the street >2) use them at Mather AFB tomorrow >3) slap them on at Atwater and run I just ran my first event on new G-Force tires. They stick great, but need a warm up to work. I drove them on the street for a day to scrub them a bit. The mold release crap made them slide worse than my all season tires. Once that was over they felt great, and I figred the event would be no sweat. I was lazy, and the event was only a 40 mile drive, so I decided to drive them to the event, for a bit more scrubbing ;-) I go to take my first run, WOW, I was all over the place, they had only moderate grip til I was half way around my first run. Second run was much beter, third finally felt like some solid grip. My co-driver went out and beat my best time in his first run. (EVER IN THE CAR) and improved each run there after. I was quite worried. In the late session, even my first un felt far better, and I was able to catch my co-driver. I actually beat him by .017 for the event, but what I am trying to say, was even 40 plus miles, and trying to push them on the street, it took a few runs to make the tires work. Most was just getting heat in them, but some was also scrubbing them in. Not sure if I was able to actually heat cycle them, as the time between morning and afternoon runs was not long enough for that. By the end of 14 runs (6 each driver competition, and 2 post event) the tires did truely get hot, but not cooked, so next week they should be heat cycled. Gary M. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:15:45 1999 From: GSMnow@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:13:48 EDT Subject: 1991 Eagle Talon TSI - in automatic Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:02:51 EDT From: Joehgn@aol.com >Hey, any comments on how the above car would fair in G Stock. Saw one >cheap >and started dreaming about Turbo power. Is there any major reason (other >than it is auto-trans) this car should be avioded?? The auto trans cars are a bit different then the manuals. The turbo is alot smaller, and they run less boost. The power rating was only 175 instead of 190. On the flip side they spool faster and reach peak torque at lower rpm. As ar as the trans shifting slow, I can't comment, I have not driven the mitsu auto. I won't say an auto is bad to autocross though. It sure makes left foot braking easy, and if the gearing is tall enough, you may be able to use first gear for most of the course. I did this in an 87 GrandAm turbo, I only needed second on very fast courses, and the auto allowed me to left foot brake it to boost in the corners. The only real drawbacks to the car are the soft ride, tall CG, and narrow 6 inch rims. These are the reasons I stopped running my 90 Talon AWD. But that was when I was stuck in BStock back in 91. Now that it is in GStock, I have thought about setting it up again. Mine is a 90 manual with only 46,000 miles, and I would be willing to sell at a very good price. E-mail me if you are interested. I only raced it one season, only stock, and the car is near perfect. A set of struts, brake pads, and race tires could make it run strong. Gary M. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:15:51 1999 From: GSMnow@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:13:47 EDT Subject: Re:Lug Nuts and such From: Tim Malzahn Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 10:06 PM >When I was changing the tires back to the streets, I could not get one of >the right front lug nuts loose. So I did not change one of the tires for the >trip back home. When I got home, I ended up shearing off the wheel stud >trying to remove the lug nut. >I think what may have happened is when I was torquing the nuts down this >morning, I weakened one of the studs enough so that it actually broke >sometime in competition during the day (last run.) << It's also possible you cross-threaded the lug nut while you were changing tires. Even when you swear you've been *really* careful, it happens sometimes. >> Even more likely was improper torque. We have had a couple broken studs, and it turned out they were torqued over 250 ft lbs. That was what it took to break the others loose. 90 ft lbs does not feel like alot on a large cross wrench, or evenan 18 inch breaker bar. We should push more about the use of a torque wrench when tightening lug nuts. Over tightening is almost as bad as under tightening. We have had two wheels come off at events that I can remember here (About 12 years). One was a broken stub axle on a formula ford, and the other was loose lugs on a prepared Z car. There was no further damage to the FF, but the Z did have a bit of crunched body work as the tire came off. But there were no injuries, so we got lucky, and should make sure this does not happen again. << Properly torquing the lug nuts down shouldn't weaken the studs. The only evidence I can claim is years of changing tires two or three weekends a month using this method -- the only wheel stud failures I've ever had were due to cross-threaded lug nuts. >> Cross threads do happen, but more often is wrong torque. Stretching the stud even a fraction each time will ent up with a failure sooner or later. Cross threading usually will not get tight as it is happening, and should be obvious in tech. These are things that should be looked at. I put all new longer studs in my car, and had them torqued to 100 ft lbs. They were not fully seated, and after a 4 mile drive I felt some shaking, pulled over to find almost every lug came loose. I had to torque to 150, drive, torque, drive, etc. Finally they seated fine, and I now run 100 ft lbs. Gary M. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:39:24 1999 From: "Brad Moriarty" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:32:05 -0400 Subject: Northeast Novice To the informed multitude, I'm a Massachusetts novice new to this list and have noticed threads about many events but none seem very close to my neck of the woods. Does anyone have suggestions for the nearest driving events to Boston that are novice friendly? I'm interested in any car-control courses/classes or events as well as autox. Thanks, Brad From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:48:48 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: Auto-X mailing list Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:47:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Ron Bauer wrote: > My suggestion is to learn how to do it and practice it all the time. Any > stickshift I drive in an autocross or on the street, is driven with heel and > toe downshifts. I do this regardless of whether it's aggressive driving or > not. The more you can practice things in a real world environment, the > better prepared you'll be at the autocross. And so I've been trying to learn to heel-and-toe. My problem is that in my car ('98 Mustang coupe), there is a few inches difference in height between the brake and accelerator -- the brake pedal sits even with the clutch, up high, but the gas is 2-3" lower, maybe more. On my wife's minivan, the brake and gas pedals are lined up so well I often tweak the throttle accidentally if my foot is too far to the right on the brake. It's an automatic, of course, but if it were a manual I could heel-and-toe it. I can trail brake it on off-ramps really well . So is this just a car that can't be shifted heel-and-toe? I haven't been able to do it at all. I have to really point my big ol' feet like a gymnast to reach both pedals at the same time. I can't "blip" the throttle without crunching the brakes at the same time, there's just not enough ankle travel left. And I think a block of wood on the throttle would put me into ESP from GS, not to mention looking a little silly. Comments? Dale --- The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:54:45 1999 From: Andrew_Bettencourt@kingston.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:05:58 -0700 Subject: MR2 shocks I have a net impaired friend who just bought a N/A 1991 MR2. This car needs shocks bad. Anybody out there with a set of solid OEM's they want to part with? What do Tokico's go for these days? Please respond and cc: jburke@meditech.com Thanks! AB From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:55:14 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: Dale Botkin Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:55:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing Dale Botkin wrote: > And so I've been trying to learn to heel-and-toe. My problem is that > in my car ('98 Mustang coupe), there is a few inches difference in > height between the brake and accelerator -- the brake pedal sits even > with the clutch, up high, but the gas is 2-3" lower, maybe more. The height relationship between brake and clutch is irrelevant -- only the height relationship between brake and throttle matters. And it sounds like your Mustang is set up correctly, or close anyway. When you're threshhold braking, the pedals should be the same height. Naturally, that means the brake pedal should be closer to you (further from the floor) when it's not being depressed. 2-3" does sound like a lot, though. If the pedal doesn't move far enough down, then perhaps some adjustment needs to be made. I don't think it's legal to put a spacer on the throttle pedal, but you can modify the right side of your right shoe... Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 13:58:04 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: "Auto-X mailing list" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:01:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Heel and toe >And so I've been trying to learn to heel-and-toe. My problem is that in >my car ('98 Mustang coupe), there is a few inches difference in height >between the brake and accelerator -- the brake pedal sits even with the >clutch, up high, but the gas is 2-3" lower, maybe more. Different cars are set up different ways, and your technique has to change with the car. My car is the opposite of yours - I can heel and toe wonderfully under light braking, but not hard braking like I do in an autocross. I've had to abort a number of attempts at heel-and-toe downshifting when I realized my closure rate on the car in front of me was much faster than it should've been! Some pedals have a little adjustment in them, but for the most part you need to get creative and come up with a technique that will let you achieve the desired effect with your particular pedal configuration. As someone else said earlier today, there's no right or wrong technique in autocross - there's just faster and slower. - Justin '83 BMW 320i HS (soon to be DSP when I pop some factory Recaros in) Team SOL #4 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:03:15 1999 From: Charles Spitzer To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:59:13 Subject: WTB: wheel trailer looking for leads/names/model numbers for a wheel trailer. to be towed behind a vette, so has to be light and small. looking for a fiberglass-enclosed shell. must be able to hold 4 17" wheels + floor jack + small other stuff. thanks in advance. charlie phx, az From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:07:51 1999 From: Jason Bowles To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:04:27 -0400 Subject: Looking for help or a co-driver.. Anyone car to help out with a CSP neon being built up? Anyone care to co-drive a CSP neon? I'm looking for help in setup and tips and even driving! I try to go to almost all events in the GA/SC/NC area if they dont conflict with each other. The car is in the beginning stages of setup, most help is needed getting the suspension put together correctly. All internal engine modifications have been made, lacking a TEC-II or simular kit. You can put any seat you like in the driver side (they are easy to swap), and take it home with you etc. Tires and wheels are on the car, alignement is setup. It just needs to be driven and setup to its best potential. Email me for more info Jason Bowles Or drop by and Chat I'll be at the SE divisional in Atlanta this weekend. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:09:07 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Mark Sirota Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:31:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Heel Toe [was: Integra AutoXing] Mark Sirota wrote: > > 2-3" does sound like a lot, though. If the pedal doesn't move far > enough down, then perhaps some adjustment needs to be made. > > I don't think it's legal to put a spacer on the throttle pedal, but > you can modify the right side of your right shoe... I went shoe shopping once for a pair of tennis shoes that would help me in my heel-toe activities. I found a pair of "Head" tennis shoes that had a larger 'flange' to the outside of the foot near the ball. This was ideal for me. That allowed me to keep more of my foot on the brake pedal, where the effort was needed, and still blip the throttle with this 'extension' of the shoe. Works great for me, and it's even stock class legal! :-) -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:10:23 1999 From: Jeff Randall To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:08:14 -0700 Subject: Tires Does anyone in have any decent (new/used) road race tires for sale? I plan on doing the Performance Driving School at Sears Point and the Toyo's I got that came with the car are bald. I don't want to pay 600 bucks for new ones since i'm only going to the driving school. They are on 14in Panasports. Thanks. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:18:40 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Joshua Hadler" , "Mark Sirota" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:18:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Heel Toe [was: Integra AutoXing] >That allowed me to keep more of my foot on the brake >pedal, where the effort was needed, and still blip the throttle with >this 'extension' of the shoe. Works great for me, and it's even stock >class legal! :-) ====================== I dunno. Did they make more than 1000 pair of them for the American market in a year? ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:21:41 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:20:53 PDT Subject: TLS is famous SO Mr Bultermeier, now that you've made the cover of autocross.com what are you going to do now. nice pic.. Jeff Ps. Eric L are you really that blind? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:25:16 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:48:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Heel Toe [was: Integra AutoXing] Eric Linnhoff wrote: > > >That allowed me to keep more of my foot on the brake > >pedal, where the effort was needed, and still blip the throttle with > >this 'extension' of the shoe. Works great for me, and it's even stock > >class legal! :-) > ====================== > I dunno. Did they make more than 1000 pair of them for the American > market in a year? ;^) Good point! :-) I don't know. But it was readily accessible, and I didn't have to special order it. No special option packages to order from Foot Locker, just right off the shelf... -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:43:00 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:42:59 -0500 Subject: Re: TLS is famous >Ps. Eric L are you really that blind? ================ Naw, just went for the better looking car. Besides, I'm a Mopar man. No Ferd powered cars for me. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:46:16 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:49:34 -0400 Subject: Re: TLS is famous >SO Mr Bultermeier, now that you've made the cover of autocross.com >what are you going to do now. Shouldn't fame like this mean disqualifiation, now that he's no longer a laughing stock? :) - Justin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 14:56:41 1999 From: "Stevens, Kevin" To: "'Joshua Hadler'" , Mark Sirota Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:56:01 -0700 Subject: RE: Heel Toe [was: Integra AutoXing] This is even sicker than Katie's Cliniqual experiments. KeS > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Hadler [SMTP:jhadler@rmi.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 2:32 PM > To: Mark Sirota > Cc: Dale Botkin; Auto-X mailing list > Subject: Re: Heel Toe [was: Integra AutoXing] > > Mark Sirota wrote: > > > > 2-3" does sound like a lot, though. If the pedal doesn't move far > > enough down, then perhaps some adjustment needs to be made. > > > > I don't think it's legal to put a spacer on the throttle pedal, but > > you can modify the right side of your right shoe... > > I went shoe shopping once for a pair of tennis shoes that would help me > in my heel-toe activities. I found a pair of "Head" tennis shoes that > had a larger 'flange' to the outside of the foot near the ball. This was > ideal for me. That allowed me to keep more of my foot on the brake > pedal, where the effort was needed, and still blip the throttle with > this 'extension' of the shoe. Works great for me, and it's even stock > class legal! :-) > > -Josh2 > > -- > Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR > '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro > > jhadler@rmi.net > http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 15:19:48 1999 From: "Daniel J. Radcliffe" To: Jeff Randall Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:18:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Tires Jeff, Try Berget Tire in Wisconsin. Used Goodyear road racing slicks for decent $ Full tread $80 Half tread $40 414-740-0180 Dan Radcliffe Sussex, WI '82 Z-28 CP On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Jeff Randall wrote: > Does anyone in have any decent (new/used) road race tires for sale? I plan > on doing the Performance Driving School at Sears Point and the Toyo's I got > that came with the car are bald. I don't want to pay 600 bucks for new ones > since i'm only going to the driving school. They are on 14in Panasports. > Thanks. > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 15:34:26 1999 From: Gemery@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:31:59 EDT Subject: Rock-bottom-in-cost? RacerRay wrote: >There simply is not being offered the kind of dirt cheap, rock-bottom-in-cost >thing that I am willing to get into. So what is rock-bottom-in-cost? If one is willing to risk their daily vehicle to a potential rollover, curb impact, ditch, or light-pole incident then can the repair and replacement cost of said vehicle be assumed as the rock-bottom? Or, once that risk is acknowledged and accepted, does one consider operating costs as rock-bottom? Or is rock-bottom-in-cost whatever it takes to win at the level that you're willing to pay? Back when I drove a new Miata, I considered all those factors. The choice boiled down to the Miata R, Neon ACR, or used RX-7tt; I would have chosen a Formula Ford or F440, but didn't have a storage area or tow vehicle and F Mod wasn't a class yet. I could tell the Neon was going to change class ASAP, so wasn't interested. RX-7tt was going to have higher insurance and higher tire cost. That left the Miata as a no-brainer... until I bought a house. Prior to that, I ran cars of special interest to me. Presently I do the same, but have a larger budget (though too many project cars). In another year or two all my project cars will be close to completion and the budget can focus on traveling more... >It might be interesting if some publication dealing with the sport would >conduct a poll to determine where the market is. But wouldn't they be polling the people who are comfortable with the current costs since those are the people who are spending the money to play today? Sure, we all like the idea of lower cost, but without making the sport spec-cars on spec-tires, it ain't gonna happen. As a nation we've proven the popularity of diversity in autox and that diversity has a certain minimum cost in all the categories I can think of. >I don't travel more than about 200 miles to run. That's realistic and normal. Nobody wants to spend more than 6-7 hours on the road for a single day event and it's tough to find people willing to spend more than 2 hours on the road for a single day event. Two day events are a different story from my point of view. >Time was I could run 30 times a year without going more than 35 miles. Once upon a time (1988-1991) in the Portland area there were about 15 nonconflicting events per year. In the past couple of years that's been 7-9, principally due to lack of sites. However there are 30+ events when one considers the 200 mile radius. There are a number of factors leading to fewer sites, but principally it's due to increased commercial, residential, and industrial development... real estate in our metropolitan area is too valuable to waste on large open parking lots unless we're willing to pay San Francisco rates. Additionally, local zoning regulations require green spaces inside parking lots and the stupid architects place the green spaces in interior strips rather than clumps at the outer edges. I'm digressing, so must be time to quit. George Emery gemery@aol.com http://members.aol.com/gemery From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 15:37:30 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: dale@botkin.org Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:35:18 EDT Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing In a message dated 4/28/99 3:53:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dale@botkin.org writes: << So is this just a car that can't be shifted heel-and-toe? I haven't been able to do it at all. >> I found that, truly, it is a waste of effort to try and downshift like this. I tried and tried over the past couple of seasons to be able to do this, but I always had to compromise my braking (read: lighter braking) to downshift, which isn't good for times, you know. I have abandoned this for autocross use. Maybe this isn't the best idea but I don't want to lose time on course because of that. Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 15:44:30 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Mtnman3620@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:07:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing Mtnman3620@aol.com wrote: > > I found that, truly, it is a waste of effort to try and downshift like this. > I tried and tried over the past couple of seasons to be able to do this, but > I always had to compromise my braking (read: lighter braking) to downshift, > which isn't good for times, you know. I have abandoned this for autocross > use. Maybe this isn't the best idea but I don't want to lose time on course > because of that. Dan, I can only say this from my own experience but "keep practicing". I have found that double clutching eases the wear on the tranny considerably, also that it makes the shift smoother and easier. Heel-toe I've found definitely helps keep the car better settled when transitioning to a lower gear. YMMV -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 16:20:56 1999 From: ConeChasr@aol.com To: jhadler@rmi.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:52:23 EDT Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing Josh, Well, what I currently do is something a CM driver of good reputation told me to do. It is to finish your braking, turn, select the gear (all with the clutch in), release the clutch and go. This worked wonders for my GS-R and also my 1st Gen RX-7. So far, I've only used it once for my GSX and it worked well. Daniel PS--I do this on the street, I just think it to be a waste of precious time on course. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 16:29:44 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:25:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing And if you had a turbocar, you wouldn't ever even change gears. Imagine, the whole course in 2nd gear on street tires and no heel-and-toe! Couldn't resist, Josh! ;) Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 Conechaser said: >Josh, > >Well, what I currently do is something a CM driver of good reputation told me >to do. It is to finish your braking, turn, select the gear (all with the >clutch in), release the clutch and go. This worked wonders for my GS-R and >also my 1st Gen RX-7. So far, I've only used it once for my GSX and it >worked well. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 16:31:32 1999 From: "Deanne" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:31:26 -0500 Subject: Why smaller pulley? >Just out of curiousity, why do you need the pulley?<< Several of you responded to my post on my Grand Prix and the smaller supercharger pulley putting me in EM. If it was easy to take off for race days I would do it and put my stock one back on. Then I could run ESP. However, the shaft is not keyed and the smaller pulley is pressed on like the stock one was. Those that have tried to get it off with pulley tools have either damaged the pulley or the bearings. A performance company with a special tool they created came to our club gathering to take our stock one off and put the smaller one on. Only other option is to replace the stock supercharger snout with a keyed one so you can change out the pulley. That is expensive though and I don't plan to go any lower in size unless I do other mods. So unless I want to spend a lot of money the pulley is stuck. Why do I need the smaller pulley? It gave me about a 35-40% increase in boost and I really like it! Does that mean I should really be in EM.....I don't know. I wouldn't say that it made my HP or torque any greater than any other car running in ESP, considering there are Z28's, Mustang GT's, and TransAms running in ESP. A lot of those same cars have beat me in the 1/4 mile....and I have beat some of them as well (but it was real close). Thanks for the replies. I have found all this very interesting and maybe the SCCA will eventually come out with another class for all these supercharged sedans/coupes that want to run with a couple mods. The factory is putting more and more of them on the street and a pulley swap is one of the main mods. Deanne From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 16:38:23 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:36:13 EDT Subject: SEDiv event this weekend, need 10 more drivers! We're just 10 drivers short of our goal of 150 for the opening BFGoodrich Team T/A 1999 SCCA SEDiv Solo2 event at Atlanta Motor Speedway on May 1 & 2. Today is also the last day to register without incurring a $20 late registration fee. This event is open to all SCCA members. We encourage everyone to come on out and and run the closest thing to a National Tour event in the SEDiv this year. Information on this event is available at the SEDiv Solo2 website listed below, just click on the link below: SEDiv Solo2 website M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 16:51:41 1999 From: PZahornask@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:48:52 EDT Subject: Re: Northeast Novice In a message dated 4/28/99 2:42:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Brad_Moriarty@prospectus-ma.com writes: > I'm a Massachusetts novice new to this list and have noticed threads about > many events but none seem very close to my neck of the woods. Does anyone > have suggestions for the nearest driving events to Boston that are novice > friendly? I'm interested in any car-control courses/classes or events as > well as autox. Brad, New England Region (NER) SCCA has an event this Sunday at the Devens Commerce center. You can find the details at the NER web site at www.ner.org. Also, check out http://www.ner.org/internet/mailing.html This has information on the New England Region mail lists, one of which caters strictly with local solo issues. Paul Zahornasky 29 HS - 87 Integra From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 17:27:37 1999 From: "Sean & Betty Scott" To: "team.net" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:23:49 -0500 Subject: Quad 4 Ticking noise after runs I used to run a 90 Olds Calais 442. During the hotter months I would experience the same problem. I switched to a 20W-50 oil and this helped quite a bit. The Quad 4 has a splash pan in the oil resevoir, but this does not help much. The ticking noise could be from the the oil thining out and evacuating the lifters. I recently had the head replaced on that car and did not notice any problems with the lifters that were taken off. The car had 150000 miles on the engine at that time. Good Luck Sean Scott 91 MR2 85cs/p5 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 17:51:08 1999 From: Karl Witt To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:01:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Why smaller pulley? At 05:31 PM 4/28/99 -0500, Deanne wrote: >Thanks for the replies. I have found all this very interesting and maybe >the SCCA will eventually come out with another class for all these >supercharged sedans/coupes that want to run with a couple mods. The factory >is putting more and more of them on the street and a pulley swap is one of >the main mods. They might...right after they allow SFCs in SP ;) Karl 98 Z28 44 ESP NER From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 17:52:20 1999 From: Lee Piccione To: TeamZ3@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:54:07 -0400 Subject: Re: BSP Datsun Z questions Horsepower is correct, gear is WAY wrong! 4-sp had 3.30, auto had 3.54.... Lee TeamZ3@aol.com wrote: > The Z-car websites are stating 150 hp stock for the 240Z with a 3.9 rear gear > for manual trans. Are these incorrect? > > M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 18:10:20 1999 From: Marc To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:30:35 -0500 Subject: Cheapest Autox tires I have a 95 eclipse non turbo with nothing modded except 17 inch rims. This puts me in CSP. I want to put some ax tires on my stock rims and run them. I dont want to spend a whole lot as I am just out to have fun right now. Should I get ax tires or just some bald street tires? I dont really want to keep my 17" as they have some nitto tires and they are also expensive. They would be cheaper to buy a new set of nittos than any other ax tires though... -- Thank You Marc Johnson indyspat@flash.net “Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read” -Groucho Marx http://www.goecities.com/motorcity/lane/4648/marchome.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 18:41:46 1999 From: Cccya1@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:39:57 EDT Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing I have 1 year under my belt autoxing my Honda Civic (much like the wussy little brother of an integra). I too wondered about tire pressures and heel toe (btw 35ish Front, 30ish rear on Khumos). I went to the Chicago region driving school in March to try and learn some new concepts. I race w/ a miata club and get killed by them almost every time. So I went there looking to learn from FWD instructors, which I did. I learned that rather than downshift to keep the revs up, just left foot brake to slow the car while keeping your right foot on the gas. I was a little skeptical with this, then I went for a ride....WOW...His CRX exploded (compared to me) out of corners, he kept the revs above 4K the entire course. The only downside is expect to put rotors and pads on sooner...But that may be an approach you want to try... Hope it helps Kevin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 18:42:29 1999 From: Chris Moore To: tgentry@execpc.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:35:13 -0400 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open Cars On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:10:21 -0500 Tom Gentry writes: >>>Anyone who wants to use their head as a roll bar will get exactly as >much protection as they need. ;^)<< > >Just to set things straight, I believe this thread was originally >about what constitutes "closed" vs. "open" cars, and had nothing to do >with rollbars or the lack thereof. In my particular case, I have a >rollbar that surpasses SCCA standards for "closed" cars, but it does >not meet the height requirement for "open" cars. (If it did, I would >never be able to put the top up) I, and others, compete in this >configuration with other organizations by bolting on the factory >hardtop, thus falling under "closed" car rules. > >Is this acceptable per SCCA regulations for Solo I? > >Tom Gentry > Yes, it's acceptable. It's known as the "Miata rule." Chris Moore DSP TR6 Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 18:42:49 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: "Jeffrey Lloyd" , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:39:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Quad 4 Racer help needed The Q4 is a double overhead cam engine, the valves ride on rollers, there are no tappets in this engine. I get a slight noise after a run (only on very hot days) But, like the Audi, when I let the motor cool, it goes away. And, as has been said, there are no ill side effects. G ---------- > > does the quad4 have hydraulic tappets, I know the bmw M52 motors are > notorous for the same symptoms, every one tapps after a run, the > tapets need time to build up oil press again. then the car is fine, > they do the same thing on first startup. for a second or two... > I know on these motors it is normal.. > > Jeff > --------------- > > > >I don't think this is terribly unusual. I experienced the same thing > >with my Audi 4K. It just goes away after awhile, and has never > resulted > >in an ill effects hat I can tell. > > --------------- From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 18:43:12 1999 From: "David Hawkins" To: "Deanne" , Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:37:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller pulley? >Why do I need the smaller pulley? It gave me about a 35-40% increase in >boost and I really like it! Does that mean I should really be in EM.....I >don't know. No offense, but yes, it does. Your arguments are the typical 'I' class desire. The single most common modification to a turbocharged car is to up the boost. Instant EM car.....is it fair? You bet. There is no way for the SEB, SCAC, SPAC etc to make a class structure that would work and allows for Stock Cars, Cars that are stock with very few mods, Cars that are stock with a little more mods, Cars that are stock with a LOT of mods, Cars that are gutted...blah blah..you get the point. My Mr2 Turbo stood pretty much no chance in ASP without some kind of boost modification. I soldiered through last year with it and won the region and division. Anything beyond, and I got squashed very quickly (nothing like watching your competition roll off the trailer when you drove 1500 miles to the event). So, I retired the Turbo, put the boost controller on and enjoy it on the street. I still autox it occasionally, but I realize that it's just for fun anymore in that car. I know it's not what you wanted to hear...but the boost rule is there for a reason. Boost mods are almost impossible to police, and the gains from each one will be different and would make a classing nightmare. Unless your region has some kind of Novice program or Street Mod class, you're stuck in EM unless you lose the pulley. If you really want to win, you'll either need to go crazy on the car (something I doubt you'll do considering the lengths required to be EM competitive), take off the pulley, or get a beater autox car. David Hawkins 93 MR2 Turbo ASP retired...now EM 85 MR2 CSP/ITA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 18:46:22 1999 From: "George Ryan" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:47:54 -0500 Subject: Fw: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? George asks: > Is there anybody out there that has actually taken an SP car and > prepared it to the rules in the Prepared category? If so, > were wheels really a major consideration? Rick Tinsley did that with the silver Civic hatchback in which he trophied in EP and Betsy Bryan-Tinsley drove to the EPL title at last year's national championships. They used to run that car in CSP, and I can guarantee you that you are correct about the wheels being one of the last things on the list of items to consider during the building process. I was talking to him this past weekend about my DSP Civic and he mentioned that they started building their car in 1986 and are now almost where they wanted to be with it when they started. Keep in mind that Rick works at Racer Wholesale so he has ready access at wholesale prices to just about anything you would need to build a race car, including access to the lathes and such to machine your own parts. Yes, it can safely be said that it did not take him 13 years to figure out what to do about wheels. To add further fuel to the fire, Betsy won the CSP National Championship in that car in 1990, and then started winning in EP in 1994 (I think). So this is not just any CSP car that moved to prepared - it was a nationally competitive CSP car that became a nationally competitive EP car. -Brett From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 18:56:46 1999 From: Rex Weatherford To: auto-x Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:06:17 -0400 Subject: Thanks for Quad Help Thanks to everyone who has responded with comments on the quad. It looks like I have a few things to try. Thanks again. -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 89,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 150,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 19:21:40 1999 From: Scott R Sawyer To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:21:12 -0400 Subject: Alignment I have a question about the alignment on a front drive car. Almost everything I've read and heard has recommended running toe out in the front. In a few places though, I've have seen toe in recommended (Grassroots, June/July '98). It seems to me that running toe in would work better because as you start to turn into the corner you load the outside tire. Since this tire is turned in more than the amount of steering lock you have cranked in (because it was preloaded from the toe), I would think the car would turn in more quickly. Is this right? If not, why? Basically, I'm just trying to get an idea of not just WHAT works, but also WHY. TIA. Scott Sawyer '91 Civic Si, ES 22 Team Underdog Racing SCCA, TSCC From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 19:46:01 1999 From: Jamie or Trisha Ridenour To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:39:05 -0400 Subject: Sunblock and your car Sunblock can remove the paint on the interior bits of your car! Several manufacturers now specify Sunscreen resistance on their interior paint programs. Make sure you wipe your hands very well or you just might discover your cars true colors. You might watch where your arms and legs touch too BTW. Regards, Jamie mailto:ridenour@perigee.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 19:59:19 1999 From: Gary McDaniel To: GMAnkeny@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:55:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Atwater Pro-Kumho Tire Support????? I don't beleive they will be there..Gary McDaniel, Fresno Chapter GMAnkeny@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know if the Kumho truck will be at the Atwater Pro--Guy (asking > for others ) Ankeny From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 20:00:49 1999 From: Jamie or Trisha Ridenour To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:53:35 -0400 Subject: Headlight Help very little autox content if any I'd like to upgrade the pitiful head lamps in my wifes 94 Mitsu Galant. I think I want Hella replacement bulbs but haven't clue which bulbs to ask for or even who to ask. Maybe I'll do my car too for the 24 hour autocross we have here in the Carolinas Please respond directly and TIA, Jamie mailto:ridenour@perigee.net From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 20:07:14 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: greg@thumbsupracing.com, autox@autox.team.net, solo2atlanta@ilist.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:03:26 EDT Subject: Re: SEDiv event this weekend Greg Lee said it best: > Mark, > > It may be a good idea to remind folks about the AMS site requirement of wood > under jacks, trailer tounges, etc. > > See you Friday. ps: we need 6 more drivers registered to hit our goal of 150. Only two hours left before the late registration fee kicks in. M Sipe SEDiv Solo2 Deputy Steward From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 20:53:49 1999 From: "Karl A. Rickert" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:47:07 -0400 Subject: TLS @ SEDiv May 1st & 2nd Anymore TLS members going to Atlanta this weekend for the 1st event of the SEDiv series? If so let me know and we'll set up some sort of get together. Maybe even at the go-kart track :0 Also if anyone needs a room. I've a TLS room available to share at the Masters Economy. Karl A. Rickert C Stock Alfa Spider #38 Dixie Region SCCA TLS #25 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 21:50:58 1999 From: OneTimeCRX To: Cccya1@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:49:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing Cccya1@aol.com wrote: > I learned that rather than > downshift to keep the revs up, just left foot brake to slow the car while > keeping your right foot on the gas. I was a little skeptical with this, > then I went for a ride....WOW...His CRX exploded (compared to me) out of > corners, he kept the revs above 4K the entire course. The only downside is > expect to put rotors and pads on sooner...But that may be an approach you > want to try... Is this for an automatic, or standard tranny? If it's for a standard, I would expect that clutch slippage is necessary in order to keep the revs up while slowing the car down. First gear in my car (honda crx) is so short that downshifting into 1st is only asking for an accidental overrev. What I've found is that for a car with such little power, the only way to accelerate out of a turn is to straighten the wheel earlier, which to me means late apex. -- Cheers, Henry C. *********************************************************** * TAS: Physics 89 CR-X dx ES * * Email: hchea@ramapo.edu OR OneTimeCRX@aol.com * * TLS#28 * *********************************************************** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 22:11:10 1999 From: "Don Fore" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:09:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing > Is this for an automatic, or standard tranny? If it's for a standard, I > would expect that clutch slippage is necessary in order to keep the revs > up while slowing the car down. The key benefits to this technique is not so much "keeping the revs up", but rather to avoid destabilizing the car in the turn, and possibly missing both an upshift *and* a downshift, to boot. As an added benefit, you will by definition NEVER be late on getting back on the gas coming out of the turn because you didn't lift in the first place. Back when I was autocrossing my Grand Am GT (FWD, 5-sp, 180hp), I did this quite often. The important thing is to not use too much left-foot braking. Learning what is too much or too little is the hard part. -- Don4 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 22:13:05 1999 From: "Phil Ethier" To: "Alan Dahl" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:10:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller wheels in Prepared? From: Alan Dahl >At 11:52 PM 4/27/99 -0500, you wrote: >>>Is there anybody out there that has actually taken an SP car >>>and prepared it to the rules in the Prepared catagory? >> >>Ron and Karen Babb spring to mind. > >And now they are taking the same car and going to DM with it. I did not know that. What power source? Phil Ethier Saint Paul Minnesota USA Lotus Europa, VW Quantum Syncro, Chev Suburban LOON, TCVWC, MAC pethier@isd.net http://www.visi.com/mac/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 22:14:18 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: solo2atlanta@ilist.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:22:07 -0400 Subject: SEDIV last minute details Everyone going to the SEDIV in Atlanta this weekend be sure to throw some pieces of plywood into your car to put under your jacks and jackstands. Rule books and SCCA stickers will be on sale at the site if you forget to bring them. Don't bother to show up at the site before 5 pm when the gates open. Registration and Tech will be from 6-8 pm on Friday night. See you Friday night!! Ben Thatcher event chair From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 22:40:13 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Cccya1@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:41:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Integra AutoXing Cccya1@aol.com wrote: > > I have 1 year under my belt autoxing my Honda Civic (much like the wussy > little brother of an integra). I too wondered about tire pressures and heel > toe (btw 35ish Front, 30ish rear on Khumos). I went to the Chicago region > driving school in March to try and learn some new concepts. I race w/ a > miata club and get killed by them almost every time. So I went there looking > to learn from FWD instructors, which I did. I learned that rather than > downshift to keep the revs up, just left foot brake to slow the car while > keeping your right foot on the gas. I was a little skeptical with this, > then I went for a ride....WOW...His CRX exploded (compared to me) out of > corners, he kept the revs above 4K the entire course. The only downside is > expect to put rotors and pads on sooner...But that may be an approach you > want to try... While I do agree that left foot braking is a great idea, it's only usefull in certain circumstances. If, like you said, he never let the rpms drop below 4k, then there was never a need to downshift in the first place. If you were downshifting for the same turn, then you might have been braking too much. If there's no need to downshift, then left foot braking can do wonders for immediate response off the brakes, and a more stable transition. However, if you need to grab a lower gear (like 3rd to 2nd for instance), then left foot braking isn't going to work for obvious reasons. Then again, this topic seems to have blosomed a bit and we're possibly talking about two different things now... -Johs2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 23:21:59 1999 From: Smokerbros@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:19:59 EDT Subject: Anyone for BIG Huck & CHuck shirts? I'll be bringing the remainder of the H & C shirt inventory with me to the ATwater Pro. They are all size 2X. So, anyone of that size, or who is good at shrinking things in the washer, see me at the event if you want one. CHuck From autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed Apr 28 23:26:52 1999 From: whitney To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:24:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Integra-Heel & Toe & RWD! Back in my miata days, a good heel and toe downshift was a must, not to spare the tranny, but to keep from upsetting the drive(rear) wheels upon corner entry. Especially on 3-2's at 40+ mph. Can you say opposite lock-shuffle steer-and wish I had power steering in my R pkg :) I can get away with much rougher downshifts in the CRX and Talon, as the driveline shock does not upset the car's balance as much. Also with no power booster it's tricky to blip the throttle correctly with 200lbs of pressure on the brake. Never could master shifting at the apex, always felt like I needed to be in gear and on the throttle(at least a little) the minute braking was done - no coasting allowed in cars with less than 150hp. There are drivers out there that can left foot brake, and clutchless downshift to first, matching revs all the way. Good luck - practice makes perfect - whatever you choose to do, just learn to execute it quickly and by second nature, then you can focus on the course! Stan Whitney DP/EP CRX GS Talon 5spd auto explorer (that's the answer!) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 05:30:38 1999 From: ConeChasr@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:29:12 EDT Subject: G-force specs? Anyone know where I can find them? I looked at the tire rack site but with no luck. Any suggestions? TIA, Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 05:31:24 1999 From: Loren Williams To: autox-digest Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:29:55 -0500 Subject: Left foot heel & toeing or something Stan Whitney said: > Never could master shifting at the apex, always felt like I needed to be in > gear and on the throttle(at least a little) the minute braking was done - > no coasting allowed in cars with less than 150hp. I've been thinking about this lately. I tend to do the same thing, it's probably not always the fastest way around, but I've been powering through corners for many years (and only autoxing for 3) and I'm used to that particular "feel". With limited traction available, what I'm wondering is if I could make better use of the available front traction in a corner by braking a bit less and flowing through the corner at minimum throttle instead of "as much throttle as it will hold". I do left foot brake, so I'm basically always on the gas to some extent. Any further thoughts on this hard to define topic? -- Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 06:26:49 1999 From: PgrMstr@aol.com To: bvl@ibm.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:24:05 EDT Subject: Re: Integra autoXing In a message dated 4/22/99 9:00:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bvl@ibm.net writes: > Integra (now R :) racer in my region ran this setup last year. He was > not sure how much better the 225s were in the front (he ran V700s). He > did need to use a slight spacer to help the fronts not rub on the inside. > Full lock still had a tad of rub, but that is not that bad. I too am running this setup and experience the rubbing during full lock while under suspension compression......as far as spacers go, what are the types? Is it simply a flat washer that go over the studs? I've read somewhere that with a hubcentirc wheel, the hub thereby shares the loads of tfe flexing wheel. With a washer/spacer on the studs, does this defeat the hubcentric idea and increase the stress on the studs themselves? Is it much and will it shorten the life of them? Is it safe considering the loads exhurted during and autox run? Are there hubcentic wheel spacers available? Jeff MacRae 97 GSR Sdn Philly Region #39 GS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 06:34:44 1999 From: Dale Botkin To: Auto-X mailing list Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:33:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Heel & Toe & RWD! On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, whitney wrote: > There are drivers out there that can left foot brake, and clutchless > downshift to first, matching revs all the way. I can downshift without the clutch into anyting but first, it seems. Maybe I just need more stick time, but so far I haven't been able to smoothly get it into first without the clutch. Since I rarely get out of second on a typical local autox course, this presents a little bit of an inconvenience! Maybe I just need more tranny abuse -- er, practice. Dale --- The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 06:59:58 1999 From: Eric Moon To: autox@autox.team.net, autox@earthlink.net, phax@eng.kns.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:54:16 -0400 Subject: Clutchless shifts/rev matching...WAS Re: Heel & Toe & RWD! At 07:33 AM 4/29/99 -0500, Dale Botkin wrote: >On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, whitney wrote: > >> There are drivers out there that can left foot brake, and clutchless >> downshift to first, matching revs all the way. > Could someone please explain 'clutchless shifting' to me? Is it simply a matter of matching the rev that you would be in if you were to change gears normally with the clutch? Is this bad for the car? (as if autocrossing in itself is 'good' for a car!!) Eric Moon '92 Miata SOLO II CSP e-mail: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 07:17:44 1999 From: Tom Gentry To: "'Eric Moon'" , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:12:05 -0500 Subject: RE: Clutchless shifts/rev matching...WAS Re: Heel & Toe & RWD! >>Could someone please explain 'clutchless shifting' to me? Is it simply a matter of matching the rev that you would be in if you were to change gears normally with the clutch?<< That's correct. If you match the engine revs to the speed it would be if you were already in gear it should slip right in. I drove all the way home from Road America like that once when my clutch slave cylinder blew. I can do it, I just can't do it fast. >>Is this bad for the car? << If it's done correctly there is probably less wear than when most people downshift with the clutch. You're doing the job of the syncros, so there is little or no wear on them. OTOH, get it wrong and your ears will let you know that your transmission is unhappy. Tom Gentry Life is too short to drive boring cars! '96 Ford SVT Cobra, Mystic #1345/2000 (mostly stock) '72 Triumph TR-6 OD (mostly modified) '59 Triumph Model 10 Sedan (mostly in boxes) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 07:37:02 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autox list" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:36:49 -0500 Subject: 24 hour autocrosses? I've read several times now about these 24 hour autocross events. How does this work? Are there still heats or is it just a first come, first served deal? How about workers? I'm gonna assume that the event site has lights. Right? Is this just basically a great big ol' test-n-tune session? Does the course get changed periodically or is it the same course over the entire 24 hours? Gawd, how many different tires could one go through with 24 hours of potential runs? I realize that there may be an hour or more before your next set of runs but dang, how many runs will a 24 hour event attendee average? Do people take naps in their cars? I hope there's a porta-potty on site. ;^) Night runs might really be fun, especially if you only run by ambient light. Sorry for the rant but this sounds like great fun!!! Hmm, wonder if we could do one here in KC? See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 07:44:40 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:42:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Why smaller pulley "David Hawkins" wrote: > The single most common modification to a turbocharged car is to up the > boost. Instant EM car.....is it fair? You bet. Hell no, it's not fair - but that is the rule. > Boost mods are almost impossible to police, and the gains from each one will > be different and would make a classing nightmare. This is a myth, and a popular one at that. All forced induction cars have a natural limit to the amount of power that can be made with the stock turbo/blower. The things only flow so much air, and no matter how much wizardry and voodoo you do with boost control devices, _as long as the impellers and housings themselves are not modified_, there is an upper limit to the amount of power a given motor can make. Take our supercharged friend here. If he spent a day on the dyno, swapping in progressively smaller pulleys (to drive the blower faster) and adjusting the fuel delivery to match, he'd find that there would be a pulley size where if he went any smaller, he'd lose power. Either the airflow limit of the blower has been reached, or it's efficiancy limit has been reached. (ALL compressors, because of immutable laws of physics, impart heat into the air they compress. At some point, increasing pressure actually decreases the amount of air molecules being forced into the engine, as the hotter air temperature with the increased compression results in a lower density. This gets particularly nasty with supercharged cars, as they have a direct link between engine RPM and compressor RPM. If the car is set up so that compressor efficiancy peaks at any point below max engine RPM, then revving the engine past that point will result in lost power.) As long as that theoretical max power value is within the bounds of the rest of the cars in his class (adjusted for weight, suspension type, maximum tire size etc. - power is not king in this sport) then nobody is hurt. In fact, as turbo/blower cars tend to be conservatively classed in the first place, odds are that the mod is an equalizing factor. And if not - reclass the car. There's no need to punish people like this by forcing them into Mod. Allowing open boost controls - but requiring unmodified boost producers - in SP works out the best for everyone. - It's easier on impound, because the only part of the system that is regulated is the physical bit that comprises the turbo or blower. If the serial numbers/model numbers are correct, and it hasn't been machined or modified, then it's legal - verifying legality is now much like checking a cylinder head. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see if a turbo has been ported or clipped. - It's easier on non-turbo fellow competitors, as there's no longer any need to have to understand that snakes nest of hoses and vacuum lines in the other guy's car, or to worry that there's a modification hidden in there that you and the impound guy don't understand and so can't possibly find, or that there's some sneaky and undetectable computer modification, or whatever. - It's easier on newcomers to the sport - "Hey, nice boost controller!. You're over there, in E Mod, next to that guy bolting down that carbon fibre Fiero body over his Formula Atlantic chassis, right next to that twin-turbo 5l-Ford V8 powered Mini. Good luck on your first day!" - It's easier on "serious" turbo competitors, as they get a little more power in their (usually) conservatively classed car, and they get the ability to set a hard limit on they amount of boost they want to run. I still can't find _anyone_ who gets hurt by allowing boost controllers in SP. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 08:06:10 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:09:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Why smaller pulley? >>Why do I need the smaller pulley? It gave me about a 35-40% increase in >>boost and I really like it! Does that mean I should really be in EM.....I >>don't know. > >No offense, but yes, it does. Your arguments are the typical 'I' class >desire. Here's some advice I got. In stock form, my 320i falls into class A in the BMW autocross class system. Individual modifications add points (3 points for a sway bar, 15 for race tires, etc) and my car was so close to a value that would bump it to class B that if I so much as breathed on it it would be there. They were looking forward to having a little competition in A, since there is none now. But then I put the wider tires on, which in itself bumped me to B. The advice they gave me was to simply set up the car however I want it, and not worry about what class I fall into. It was good advice. There are some good drivers in B, and I probably won't win the class. But as many of you have said, you learn a lot more when you get beaten than when you win. I look at is as not getting bumped to B, but having 20 points worth of mods I can make left before I have to worry about jumping to C. :) The point being, you're the owner and driver of your car - set it up so that you'll enjoy driving it, and let the class letters fall where they may. - Justin '83 BMW 320i HS (soon to be DSP - probably won't be competitive there, but oh well!) Team SOL #4 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 08:25:30 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Alignment Howdy, On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Scott R Sawyer wrote: > I have a question about the alignment on a front drive car. Almost > everything I've read and heard has recommended running toe out in the > front. In a few places though, I've have seen toe in recommended > (Grassroots, June/July '98). It seems to me that running toe in would > work better because as you start to turn into the corner you load the > outside tire. Since this tire is turned in more than the amount of > steering lock you have cranked in (because it was preloaded from the > toe), I would think the car would turn in more quickly. Is this right? If > not, why? Basically, I'm just trying to get an idea of not just WHAT > works, but also WHY. TIA. Please bear in mind that what follows is nothing but what I think, and most people would call me an idiot. In fact, a lot of people have already... :-) In my mind the major thing toe (in or out) does in a car with decent Ackerman geometry stuff is to preload the suspension bushings. On my neon (which supposedly has good Ackerman geometry stuff), let's do a little mind experience with a right hand corner: With toe out, the left front tire has compressed the suspension bushings so that rotating the tire clockwise (to make the righthander) will instantly transfer that force to the chassis. With toe in, the left front tire has compressed the suspension bushings the _other_ way, meaning that rotating the tire clockwise will first unload the suspension bushings, then load the suspension bushings, then put the force into the chassis. I think that's why people seem to like toe out and its why I run some (3/16" in my case). Everyone says it makes the car turn in better and I think this is why. Now in a mid corner situation what I've heard gets a lot more muddy. The only thing you can guarantee is that you want the inside tire to be on a different radius (ie. turned more) than the outside tire. I've heard people say that toe out takes care of this, but I don't buy it for every car. That Ackerman geometry stuff that I barely understand accounts for this. Just like how if you change your camber your toe changes, as your suspension travels through its range the wheel turns a bit. Whether or not your car (or really mine for that matter) turns the wheels the right amount for a given corner radius, I don't have the foggiest idea. I have heard people, mostly roadracers, say that adding toe out to a neon makes the car understeer in the middle of a corner. However, I haven't heard them back it up with data. So in short I think that running toe out doesn't do anything more than preload the bushings so that steering response is more immediate, but I haven't ever run measurements to verify that's the only affect. Muddy enough? :-) Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 08:25:53 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: solo2atlanta@ilist.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:31:08 -0400 Subject: SEDIV Atlanta changes Entrants at the BFGoodrich Team T/A, SF Motorsports Southeast Divisional Solo II Championship Series need to be aware that the run/work order is significantly different from the morning afternoon session format of the Atlanta Region. You will need to plan to be at the site all day Saturday and Sunday. The only time the course will be open for walking will be Friday evening, Saturday 7-9 am and Sunday 7-9 am. The Run/Work groups have been changed to the following. Green All Street Prepared Blue All Prepared, Modified, Street Touring, SSL, ASL, DSL Red SS, AS, DS, ES White BS, CS, FS, GS, HS The Run / Work Order will be the same for both days: Heat 1 Green runs Red works Heat 2 Blue runs White works Heat 3 Red runs Green works Heat 4 White runs Blue works Schedule: Friday, April 30 5:00 pm Gates unlocked and opened 5:00 - 7:00 pm Course set-up 6:00 - 8:00 pm Registration/Tech Course walk through Saturday, May 1 7:00 am Gates unlocked and opened 7:00 - 9:00 am Saturday course open for walking 7:30 - 8:30 am Late Registration / Tech 8:30 am Driver's meeting 9:00 am Heat 1 begins 4:00 - 5:00 pm Setup of Sunday's Course 5:00 - 6:00 pm Sunday's course open for walking 6:00 pm Gates closed and locked any cars that need to be driven on the street must be off the course and paddock/parking area. Sunday, May 2 7:00 am Gates unlocked and opened 7:00 - 8:30 am Sunday course open for walking 8:30 am Driver's meeting 9:00 am Heat 1 begins 4:00 pm Trophy Presentation / Site Cleanup From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 08:53:15 1999 From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 99 10:50:24 -0500 Subject: Yoko A008R pressures Hey folks - My first event of the season is coming up on sunday, and I was curious as to what pressures the A008R tires like. 185/60/13 on a 1600 lb car, FWD. I was going to start around 35 and see how that is. I know most people have migrated away form this tire, but do they like high pressure, low pressure? indifferent? Thanks in advance - Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP Team SOL #1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:05:14 1999 From: rsmith@bfmni.com To: "'Autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:03:40 -0400 Subject: RE: G-force specs? Daniel; Check out: http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tires/data/data27/data27.html then goto complete specifications. Racer Robb From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:05:26 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:03:10 -0600 Subject: RE: Yoko A008R pressures On a Neon I ran 34 in front and 28 in back. For some reason I could never wear these out. Ran two seasons with them. Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster (Turbo 3 Liter) -----Original Message----- From: scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com [mailto:scott_phelps@england.gdt1.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 9:50 AM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: Yoko A008R pressures Hey folks - My first event of the season is coming up on sunday, and I was curious as to what pressures the A008R tires like. 185/60/13 on a 1600 lb car, FWD. I was going to start around 35 and see how that is. I know most people have migrated away form this tire, but do they like high pressure, low pressure? indifferent? Thanks in advance - Scott Phelps 88 Yugo GVX EP Team SOL #1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:07:14 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autox list" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:06:57 -0500 Subject: Ackerman? How-DEE!!! Hey, who's this Ackerman fellow? Is he supposed to know something about suspensions and their setup? Are there any good references, online or not, to help me understand suspension basics? See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:07:29 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: "Howell, J. Brett" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:04:55 -0400 Subject: RE: Why smaller pulley > I like your idea of allowing changes to the boost control hardware in SP as > long as the blower/turbocharger stays unmodified. Thanks. A lot of hard thought has gone into this. > Of course this would have a drastic effect on the SP classifications > as they stand now, requiring a great deal of work to review the > potential of all supercharged cars and reclassify them based on the > new performance potential. Actually, I don't think it's that bad: 1) Forced Induction cars are conservatively classed, in general. 2) Turbos/superchargers are fairly narrow-band devices, much like camshafts. As the manufacturers build street cars, the turbos tend to be sized for street use, not for all-out race use. As the street values throttle response over raw power, and as "raw power" turbos have horrible throttle response (lag), most turbos tend to be sized on the small side. While there are definately gains to be had by running more boost through a stock turbo, they tend to be relatively small. Nobody is going to slap on a boost controller and pick up 100HP. 3) Changes to turbos only affect the car under boost - which means "at full throttle, fully spooled". The percentage of time on course when a turbo car is at full boost is not large, and the bigger the turbo, the smaller that percentage gets. Given this, a potential problem child car needs to be already under-classed and have an oversized turbo from the factory. I can think of only *one* car that fits that description - the later-generation Supra Twin Turbo. In any case, now is a fortuitous time to be considering this change, as the SP classes are being overhauled anyway. > I would respectfully suggest that you write a letter to the SEB and > SPAC outlining this plan _and_ please offer to donate your time to > help with the reclassifications. I have done both. What happens (or doesn't happen) next is in the hands of the SEB. > The only potential problems I see with such a rule is that some > stock turbos will allow competitors to create grenade motors > (especially since they can't make any internal mods to the > engine to help manage the extra boost) There are undoubtably cars out there with weak links weaker than the airflow available through the stock turbo. Allowing boost controllers lets these people *save* motors, as they can now limit boost via the controller, where they can't do that now. However, I don't worry about people building grenades, as the "grenade line" on a turbo car is very, very fine, and the rewards just aren't worth it. At something like Indy or WC oval races, where huge chunks of time are spent at full throttle and full boost per lap, and where there are many, many laps, the small advantage from flirting with the grenade line - say 5HP - is amortized over and over to the point of being worth it. But on a 45 second autocross course, with a MUCH smaller full-throttle, full boost percentage, the risk just doesn't pay off. Besides, an SP turbo car can build a legal grenade right now - just run leaner and use more ignition advance. I could do both right now to my non-boost-controlled car, pick up maybe 5-10HP, and sweat bullets every time I go full throttle. No thanks, not worth it, not even if I was made of money. > Let us know if it comes up for consideration and I'll write a letter > supporting it. You may wish to do so. I'm NOT on the SEB, so I cannot speak for them, but I do know the issue of turbo cars has come up this year. If you like this proposal over other ideas like that "must use Stock exhaust+cat" proposal from the last FastTrack, then you should make your opinion known. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:18:13 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:15:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Clutchless shifts/rev matching...WAS Re: Heel & Toe & RWD! Yes, it's just making sure the revs are where they would be if the gear was actually engaged, then the shifter just slides right in. It's very satisfying when it works. When you're off just a little bit, it isn't so smooth, and it's VERY bad on the synchronizers. Also, there's just no way the shift can be as quick as a clutch shift, unless you just really don't care about the transmission. Forcing a clutchless shift can damage shift forks by bending them, causes extreme wear on the synchros, and when it's missed, you get little tiny chucks of those synchro teeth fluttering around in there. The thing to learn is heel and toe, and use the left foot on the clutch only. The videos you see of racers taking their Monte Carlos around the turns at Sears Point without the clutch, well, if you watch, they clutch the downshifts, maybe not the upshifts, and their transmissions are built differently anyway, not sychromesh like road cars. Say it now, and write it on the board 100 times: I will learn to heel and toe. I will learn to heel and toe. I will learn to heel and toe. . . . . Walter Fooshee Dixie Region Probe GT Eric Moon wrote: > Could someone please explain 'clutchless shifting' to me? Is it simply a > matter of matching the rev that you would be in if you were to change gears > normally with the clutch? > Is this bad for the car? (as if autocrossing in itself is 'good' for a car!!) > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:34:28 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "autox list" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:34:15 -0500 Subject: Stock class wheel widths Howdy all. Whatever became of the vicious rumor (proposal?) that Stock class cars were not gonna be allowed to run "any DOT approved tire" on rim widths that weren't spec'd by the manufacturer for that tire? Such as the BFG G-Force 225/50-14 tires being "spec'd" as usable on 6.5-8" wheels and the Hoosier radial 225/50-14s on 7" wheels although we small car racers often squeeze them onto 6" wheels. Has there been any further discussion/progression on this rumor/proposal? Just curious since my rock hard 225/50-14 Toyos are actually manufacturer spec'd for 6-8" wheels and they're every bit as wide as the BFGs and Hoosiers. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:44:17 1999 From: Benjamin D Thatcher To: bspvette@mailinglist.net, solo2atlanta@ilist.net, autox@autox.team.net, Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:51:44 -0400 Subject: Special extension for SEDIV #1 entry Mark Chiles has agreed to extend the registration time until this evening for FAXED ONLY entries. You can fax late entries until this evening WITHOUT A LATE FEE to 407-984-9345 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:50:08 1999 From: whitney To: Eric Moon , autox@autox.team.net, autox@earthlink.net, Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:47:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Clutchless shifts/rev matching...WAS Re: Heel & Toe & RWD! A great book (Going faster - Skip Barber something...) at Barnes & Nobles I was flipping through had lots of anecdotes and tips from many semi famous drivers (Dorsey Schroeder, Brian Till) and even in crash boxes - for endurance - they use a little clutch (maybe 50%) just to ease the driveline shock a little. Good book though, lots of great anecdotes. Stan At 08:54 AM 4/29/99 -0400, Eric Moon wrote: >At 07:33 AM 4/29/99 -0500, Dale Botkin wrote: >>On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, whitney wrote: >> >>> There are drivers out there that can left foot brake, and clutchless >>> downshift to first, matching revs all the way. >> >Could someone please explain 'clutchless shifting' to me? Is it simply a >matter of matching the rev that you would be in if you were to change gears >normally with the clutch? >Is this bad for the car? (as if autocrossing in itself is 'good' for a car!!) > > > >Eric Moon >'92 Miata SOLO II CSP >e-mail: info@scca-susq.com >home: (717) 221-8828 >mobile: (717) 329-7074 > >Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com > > > > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 09:54:04 1999 From: rikracer To: Benjamin D Thatcher , TeamZ3@aol.com, Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:56:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? Subject: Are you thinking BSP? >Mark, > >Are you considering coming out to play in BSP? That would be great. >However, I would suggest a nice C4 Corvette . > >Ben And I suggest you note the results of last years Nationals Rick Brown AP 240Z From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:00:03 1999 From: "Deanne" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:59:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Why smaller pulley? Hi Richard Thanks for the reply on being in the same boat on your turbo. Seems like I created a little bit of a controversy here by posting my supercharger pulley email. I understand rules are rules and I'm not trying to say there should be some sort of exception. I have more fun in these competitions just trying to beat my brother's time, who runs in ASP with his 3000GT. We are always about half a second or so apart from each other, so it is fun. For now, he is my competition and I'm enjoying the experience of learning to handle my car better. :) You asked about how much power/boost my car was putting out and the weight. The .3" smaller pulley increased my PSI from about 7-8 stock to about 10-11+ psi. When last dynoed I had 220 peak hp and 285 torque. Others with the same mods have come close to 300 torque. When I weighed in at the last competition my car, empty, weighed 3433 (without spare, jack, etc.). My best 1/4 mile was 14.4 at 95mph. DG also had a very good response this morning on how there would be a pulley size where if you went any smaller you would lose power. This is certainly true. I have no intention of going to a smaller pulley. The performance companies working on mods for the GTP have found that going beyond 11 psi on the Eaton M90 blower was detrimental to performance without an intercooler. So there are clearly limits to how much extra boost you can get. The factory is just a little too conservative so I gave it a little extra. Thanks to all for the good and very informative responses. Deanne Knudson 98 Grand Prix GTP, slightly modded, in EML and having fun From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:01:29 1999 From: Michael King To: Buccaneerautox , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:03:18 +0000 Subject: Co-drive for the SEDIV #1? Since my trust-worthy, dependable Neon has decided to eat a couple of valves for lunch plus a head for dessert, I am in need of a car for this weekend's Divisional in Atlanta. Does anyone want to share a car? Would be willing to compensate in any way. I hate to ask about anything like this, but I'm sort of stuck without a car. I'd prefer a sorted car, but won't be picky...If I win any contingency, you get it. Let me know... Thanks everyone! Mike King Buccaneer Region 97 ACR Coupe...not! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:04:57 1999 From: Michael King To: "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:07:28 +0000 Subject: test test From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:12:36 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: Gemery@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:08:57 EDT Subject: Re: Rock-bottom-in-cost? In a message dated 4/28/99 5:36:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gemery@aol.com writes: RacerRay wrote: There simply is not being offered the kind of dirt cheap, rock-bottom-in-cost thing that I am willing to get into. <> ......................................................... ......................................................... I have autocrossed a lot in years gone by. I would autocross quite often even now if I found events within my close-to-home range that offered the following: A class for HS cars only on street tires. That is all I'm looking for, at present, as far as my own individual autocrossing is concerned. We have had a street tire class around here for several years. It came into being partly because of my years of preaching against soft compound tires on stock cars. I liked the street tire class at first. At least I thought it was better than running on hard tires against cars on soft tires. Or not running at all. The way the class is done here -- one big class, all stock and street prepared cars on street tires with a treadwear rating of 140 or above are eligible. The PAX index decides the finishing order. My complaint is that the PAX changes every year based on things that happen far from here on courses and with cars that are not on hard tires. Cars, courses and tires that are not reflective of our local situation. No matter which way the PAX was changing, making it easier or harder for me, I'd still find it unsatisfactory and un-satisfying as a way to determine who wins and who doesn't. Kind of throws an extraneous penalty or advantage with no real connection to the competitors around here who run more-or-less regularly. Kind of artificial. I've had the same car for 7 years. It hasn't changed. Some of the regular street tire folks the same. The PAX factors have changed yearly, moving the numbers closer to each other. For me it has been rather like having 75 lbs. added to my car each year. I have proposed another solution to the problem. To run more than a few times a year it would require a rule change by about 5 clubs within my range. I don't have the time off from work to attend meetings of the TSCC, much less several other outfits scattered over the map. National rules that made a place for an HS car on street tires would mean that when I hit the road I would be going to Richmond or N.C. -- or wherever -- to a class that makes sense to me and is worth the effort. Good competition, not just running for fun. Low cost too. Not requiring much car preparation. 3 minutes of running isn't worth a lot of investment or work to me. If I am the only one who sees it this way the SCCA and various clubs and Regions aren't leaving out a significant number of participants. Short of a national survey of some kind there really isn't a way to be sure of how many might be in the market for such an autox situation. That's pretty much what I'm looking for. I have been advised by a few that if I don't like the way things are or it isn't fun I should just not do it. A close reading of one of my posts and a little memory would reveal that I have already said I am happy to find other things to do on Sunday. I got hooked on autox years ago. The habit isn't hard to break though. Build it and I will come. Leave things as-is and my entry fee stays in my pocket. Happy Motoring Ray [Loves to Argue] Elliott CEO&Janitor Half Fast Race Team From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:13:48 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: "Eric Linnhoff" , "autox list" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:11:51 -0700 Subject: RE: Stock class wheel widths News to me. -- KeS > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Eric Linnhoff > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 08:34 > To: autox list > Subject: Stock class wheel widths > > > Howdy all. > > Whatever became of the vicious rumor (proposal?) that Stock class cars > were not gonna be allowed to run "any DOT approved tire" on rim widths > that weren't spec'd by the manufacturer for that tire? > > Such as the BFG G-Force 225/50-14 tires being "spec'd" as usable on > 6.5-8" wheels and the Hoosier radial 225/50-14s on 7" wheels although we > small car racers often squeeze them onto 6" wheels. > > Has there been any further discussion/progression on this > rumor/proposal? > > Just curious since my rock hard 225/50-14 Toyos are actually > manufacturer spec'd for 6-8" wheels and they're every bit as wide as the > BFGs and Hoosiers. > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > I'm your vehicle baby > I'll Take you anywhere you want to go > I'm your vehicle woman > By now I'm sure you know > That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), > I want to, got to have your child > Great God in heaven you know I love you > ======================== > "Vehicle" by The Ides of March > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:15:05 1999 From: Joehgn@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:13:34 EDT Subject: GEEZ software and G-cube To all, I was reading an advertisement for this GEEZ thingy. The ad was very convincing that I needed this to smooth out my AutoX driving "technique". Very Cool PC graphical display of the vehicle path with lateral and centerline accelerations. And with a relatively fast CPU you can do replays according to the ad. At $395 for the "full boat" it sounds very enticing. Is there any experience with this equipment? Thanks, Joe Hogan From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:27:04 1999 From: Buddy Ahlers To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Clutchless shifts/rev matching... A car doesn't really need the clutch for coming out of gear, but really only for going into gear. So what I usually find myself doing is timing my stab at the clutch to come only after i've moved it out of gear and just before I put it into the gear that I want to be in. This really makes for some quick shifts, and I find it to be MUCH kinder to my gearbox. It also allows me to minimize the time I spend off the gas or out of gear. This method has worked well for me, and it is easier to do while racing. I have many more important things to be worrying about than matching my revs to where they'd be while in gear...like keeping my head up and finding my line. Not exactly "clutchless" but more like "half-clutchless". I have found that the car will shift without the clutch (after a few mis-timed stabs at the clutch) but I think I can be just as fast and much smoother by using the clutch. Buddy Ahlers. > Eric Moon wrote: > > Could someone please explain 'clutchless shifting' > to me? Is it simply a > > matter of matching the rev that you would be in if > you were to change gears > > normally with the clutch? > > Is this bad for the car? (as if autocrossing in > itself is 'good' for a car!!) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:35:38 1999 From: Ed Van Scoy To: undisclosed-recipients:; Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Pyrometer From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:35:48 1999 From: Ed Van Scoy To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:38:04 -0400 Subject: Pyrometer Can somebody give me a crash course (no pun intended) on the proper use of a pyrometer with a tire probe to adjust for optimum alignment? Thanx ED From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:54:18 1999 From: Karl Witt To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:46:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Rock-bottom-in-cost? On or about 12:08 PM 4/29/1999 , RacerRay52@aol.com did say: >If I am the only one who sees it this way the SCCA and various clubs and >Regions aren't leaving out a significant number of participants. Short of a >national survey of some kind there really isn't a way to be sure of how many >might be in the market for such an autox situation. > >That's pretty much what I'm looking for. I have been advised by a few that if >I don't like the way things are or it isn't fun I should just not do it. A >close reading of one of my posts and a little memory would reveal that I have >already said I am happy to find other things to do on Sunday. I got hooked on >autox years ago. The habit isn't hard to break though. Build it and I will >come. Leave things as-is and my entry fee stays in my pocket. ..And I want an ESP only for Subframe connectorss and cams to be national so I can have a nice class for myself whereever i go. I'm sure the DSM guys would like ESP only for unlimited aftermarket Turbo mods and 4WD cars. And the folks with supercharged Gran Prixs want smaller pulleys on Family sedans class...blah....blah....blah "S-C-C-A" not "B-K" If you want it your way, buy a whopper or four with that entry fee. Karl From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:57:51 1999 From: "Meyer, Brian J" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:56:16 -0500 Subject: RE: Why smaller pulley DG says: > - It's easier on newcomers to the sport - "Hey, nice boost controller!. > You're over there, in E Mod, next to that guy bolting down that carbon > fibre Fiero body over his Formula Atlantic chassis, right next to that > twin-turbo 5l-Ford V8 powered Mini. Good luck on your first day!" > How many times do we have to go over this? Regions can class cars however they want. When we have newbies show up with some mods, we put them where the rest of the car fits. - "Hey, nice boost controller! With the lowering springs and bigger wheels, you're classed in SP. Normally the boost controller would throw you in Mod, but we'll let you run in SP here since it's your first time and all - unless you would like to try our novice class..." I'd class the GTP with the overdrive pulley in GS and let it go at that. Once they get competitive, they can choose to replace the pulley or run EM. > I still can't find _anyone_ who gets hurt by allowing boost controllers in > SP. > No arguments here. I think it's a good idea. Brian Meyer Wichita Region '90 CRX si - CSP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 10:59:56 1999 From: "m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c." To: list@spokes.org Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:09:44 -0500 Subject: adding Torsen LSD? Is a limited slip really worth it for autocrossing? I'm not fully convinced that the Sport package is the way to go for autocrossing but it does have the Torsen LSD. that, to me, is the only benefit that i'm missing from my Touring package Miata. i favor my 14" wheels over the 15s right now. but...in order to get Torsen and still keep the 14" wheels, i would have needed to get my miata with what's called the PEP (popular equipment package). the PEP includes the touring package PLUS torsen LSD, cruise control, power door locks, the BOSE sound system, power antenna and a windblocker panel. all of this is EASILY upgradeable for my Touring.. but my question is...is it worth it just for a torsen? i'm not convinced that "extra weight" such as the power locks, sound system etc. is any difference whatsoever in performance. thoughts? dan pedroza, mroadster performance usa we've moved!! tel : (512) 9 9 0 - 8 2 1 1 fax : (603) 6 9 7 - 6 3 3 6 http://www.mroadster.com mailto:dan@mroadster.com solo2 bs 99 <>< don't wander too far from The M Road.... From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 11:07:31 1999 From: Buddy Ahlers To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Arrive and Drive Program I've looked on the SCCA web sight, for info on the arrive and drive program, but I've come up empty. I'm interested in doing this program at the Pro Solo in Harrisburg this summer, and I want to know who to contact, and what I need to have in order to do it. My car is probably not going to be finished before then, and I need to do some racing before I shrivel up and die from withdrawl! If anyone can help me find information on the arrive and drive program, I'd be eternally grateful. Thanks in advance, Buddy Ahlers. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 11:10:53 1999 From: "K.C. Babb" To: autox@autox.team.net (Autosports) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Independent Club Info Sought For those of you who are involved with independent club events, I'd appreciate brief answers to a couple of questions? 1) Who is your club(s)? 2) Who is your club insured by? 3) What types of sites does the club use for autocrosses? Just wondering... Don't blast the list, just email to me. Thanks, KCB From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 11:26:32 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: rikracer@cwix.net, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:24:00 EDT Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes rikracer@cwix.net writes: > > Subject: Are you thinking BSP? > I am thinking BSP, but a different type of Z car; BMW Z3 6 cylinder to be exact. The SEB is proposing that the BMW Z3 with 2.5L and 2.8L engines be placed in ASP, along with the higher horsepower BMW 3.2L MZ3's (separate line listings, so no engine swapping). I think the 2.5/2.8L Z3 should go to BSP, but wanted to compare specs with some of the other BSP vehicles before sending in my letter. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 12:05:46 1999 From: Bret Dodson To: "m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c." Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: adding Torsen LSD? On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, m.roadster performance usa, l.l.c. wrote: > Is a limited slip really worth it for autocrossing? Yes. I think it's very worthwhile. My old Miata had the Viscous LSD and it would not provide much slip limitation at times. Maybe I might have been able to eliminate some of that wheelspin with a prodigious front swaybar, but it was very frustrating at times. <> > but my question is...is it worth it just for a torsen? i'm not convinced > that "extra weight" such as the power locks, sound system etc. is any > difference whatsoever in performance. > > thoughts? I drive a '96 Miata R. It has a crappy stereo and no power anything and no A/C. It's very light and it autocrosses pretty well. But, I can go just about as fast in my friend's '94 C package which has A/C and a really nice stereo and power windows - it weighs about 150 - 175 lbs more than my car and is similarly prepared (except that it has Tokicos, Blasphemy!!). Add to the equation that the '94 and '95 Miatas have a smidge less power and torque (-5hp,-4ft/lbs) than the '96 and '97s as well as an earlier version of the Torsen. This doesn't seem to stop Mr. Doganis in his '94 R. I would say go for the added luxury, it doesn't weigh that much and won't have a siginificant effect on your car's performance. I think it would all be worth it to get the Torsen. Bret Dodson '96 Miata R red/white Seattle, WA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 12:17:49 1999 From: "Chris McCann" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:19:31 -0500 Subject: Part swapping Since the Integra GS-R and the Type R are both in GS, is it legal to use Type R parts on a GS-R? From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 12:49:30 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: Chris McCann Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:53:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Part swapping Chris McCann wrote: > > Since the Integra GS-R and the Type R are both in GS, is it legal to use > Type R parts on a GS-R? Only if EVERYTHING from the Type R is transplanted.....and I do mean everything. Lots of discussion on this issue a number of times before, and the specific consensus was that a 'hybrid' MIGHT be created superior to the original - although not directly directed to the Integra issue, the same logic would apply. There are other manufacturer factory performance packages with 'good stuff' but only available with leather interior, sunroof, etc. The current miata question would be a good example of this (power windows...Bose.... only with a posi) Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 12:52:21 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: , , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:25:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes Are you thinkin that is a good fit given the sophistication of the suspension and ABS on those late model bimmers? How are the numbers workin out? sbw -----Original Message----- From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: rikracer@cwix.net ; autox@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 10:25 AM Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes >rikracer@cwix.net writes: > >> >> Subject: Are you thinking BSP? >> > >I am thinking BSP, but a different type of Z car; BMW Z3 6 cylinder to be >exact. The SEB is proposing that the BMW Z3 with 2.5L and 2.8L engines be >placed in ASP, along with the higher horsepower BMW 3.2L MZ3's (separate line >listings, so no engine swapping). I think the 2.5/2.8L Z3 should go to BSP, >but wanted to compare specs with some of the other BSP vehicles before >sending in my letter. > >M Sipe > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 13:02:12 1999 From: Matthew Murray To: Chris McCann Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:02:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Part swapping Some parts are swappable, such as shocks, front sway bar, etc. All the normal stock stuff you'd be able to change. The rear bar, reinforcements and the like, would not be legal in stock, but certainly SP, and the like. To do a complete conversion would get ugly, not to mention expensive. In addition to adding parts, you'd have to take some out, too. Such as the sound absorption material. You'd have to get a Type-R motor, too. All in all it would be easier to buy a complete Type-R. Just a FYI, in Westchester County (NY) and Fairfield County (CT), Type-Rs are getting stolen quite frequently. Apparently, the Type-R motor bolts directly into a Civic. The Rice Boys are (allegedly) snagging the motors. So, if you see a Type-R motor stuffed in a Civic, chances are there is more to the story. To quote Esterhaus: "Let's be careful out there." Chris McCann wrote: > Since the Integra GS-R and the Type R are both in GS, is it legal to use > Type R parts on a GS-R? -- Matt Murray My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net It was mattm@nassau.cv.net Please note the change in your address books As always, work is: mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 13:13:41 1999 From: "Justin Hughes" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:16:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Part swapping >Just a FYI, in Westchester County >(NY) and Fairfield County (CT), Type-Rs are getting stolen quite frequently. >Apparently, the Type-R motor bolts directly into a Civic. The Rice Boys are >(allegedly) snagging the motors. So, if you see a Type-R motor stuffed in a >Civic, chances are there is more to the story. Ah, so the little Civic hatchback I saw yesterday with a "Type R" badge might not be a complete poseur after all... Probably is, but those clear taillights were ugly anyway. :) - Justin '83 BMW 320i Type R (just kidding) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 13:28:27 1999 From: Jeff Randall To: "'Matthew Murray'" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:26:46 -0700 Subject: RE: Part swapping Not to familiar with everyones budget but I have a friend who can get and entire JDM Type R front clip for around $5k. Thats the sheetmetal, motor, suspension, everything from the firewall forward. And from what he tells me, it all bolts up. The only problem would be smog, but if its an all out race car that doesn't matter. Plus the JDM motor is rated at 210hp and not 195. And you also get the nice looking front end with HID headlights. About the motors getting stolen up here in Nor Cali at all the import drag races, they run the ID#'s of the blocks to see if there stolen. Mainly any Honda DOHC motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Murray [SMTP:mattm@optonline.net] > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 12:02 PM > To: Chris McCann > Cc: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Part swapping > > Some parts are swappable, such as shocks, front sway bar, etc. All the > normal stock stuff you'd be able to change. The rear bar, reinforcements > and > the like, would not be legal in stock, but certainly SP, and the like. To > do > a complete conversion would get ugly, not to mention expensive. In > addition > to adding parts, you'd have to take some out, too. Such as the sound > absorption material. You'd have to get a Type-R motor, too. All in all it > would be easier to buy a complete Type-R. Just a FYI, in Westchester > County > (NY) and Fairfield County (CT), Type-Rs are getting stolen quite > frequently. > Apparently, the Type-R motor bolts directly into a Civic. The Rice Boys > are > (allegedly) snagging the motors. So, if you see a Type-R motor stuffed in > a > Civic, chances are there is more to the story. To quote Esterhaus: "Let's > be > careful out there." > > Chris McCann wrote: > > > Since the Integra GS-R and the Type R are both in GS, is it legal to use > > Type R parts on a GS-R? > > -- > Matt Murray > > My home e-mail now is mailto:mattm@optonline.net > It was mattm@nassau.cv.net > Please note the change in your address books > > As always, work is: > mailto:mdmurray@gwns.com > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 14:04:30 1999 From: Michael King To: "Team.Net" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:07:05 +0000 Subject: Looking for a Type R... I remember someone had a Type R for sale on the board a while back...does anyone know if it's still for sale? Or does anyone know of any for sale in their area. 97 or 98..doesn't matter. Let me know. Thanks, Mike From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 14:10:58 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Meyer, Brian J" , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:04:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Novice classing (was Why smaller pulley) -----Original Message----- From: Meyer, Brian J >How many times do we have to go over this? Regions can class cars however >they want. When we have newbies show up with some mods, we put them where >the rest of the car fits. - "Hey, nice boost controller! With the lowering >springs and bigger wheels, you're classed in SP. Normally the boost >controller would throw you in Mod, but we'll let you run in SP here since >it's your first time and all - unless you would like to try our novice >class..." > >I'd class the GTP with the overdrive pulley in GS and let it go at that. >Once they get competitive, they can choose to replace the pulley or run EM. The value of allowing region to modify the class structure, IMO, is for permanent changes desired by the local competitors -- allowing SFCs in SP, or unlimited wheels in Prepared, for example -- rather than event-by-event classing of drivers based on a combination of car and skill level. Classing drivers rather than their cars runs the risk of having a disgruntled competitor who's been bumped from one class to another simply because they've begun to get their driving together. Sure, they were told when they started -- which doesn't always make a difference. IMO, the best answer is to class 'em honestly -- if there's a local novice class to put them in, so much the better, but at least then you're not stuck with explaining why someone with headers, SFCs and a boost controller was in Stock last month and is now in Mod. Jamie '92 Prelude Si Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 14:11:17 1999 From: "Steve Ashcraft" To: , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:10:21 -0400 Subject: Re: GEEZ software and G-cube Haven't had a chance to play with the GCube yet but I have had a G-Analyst which gathers the same data (although not as fast) for 8 or 9 years. I found it to be a very useful tool and it didn't do anywhere near as much with respect to analyzing the data. A friend and I have found the plots of our runs to be pretty informative as to where one of is quicker than the other person. I'm thinking about getting one. They are great for doing analysis on whether that $$$$ you just spent on a new exhaust did anything wrt to acceleration or just sounds cool;-) Let me know if you buy one and how you like it. Steve -----Original Message----- From: To: Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 12:15 PM Subject: GEEZ software and G-cube >To all, > >I was reading an advertisement for this GEEZ thingy. The ad was very >convincing that I needed this to smooth out my AutoX driving "technique". >Very Cool PC graphical display of the vehicle path with lateral and >centerline accelerations. And with a relatively fast CPU you can do replays >according to the ad. >At $395 for the "full boat" it sounds very enticing. > >Is there any experience with this equipment? > >Thanks, > >Joe Hogan > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 14:48:30 1999 From: Joshua Hadler To: Chris McCann Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:13:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Part swapping Chris McCann wrote: > > Since the Integra GS-R and the Type R are both in GS, is it legal to use > Type R parts on a GS-R? Everyone has already chimed in on how it is basically not feasible to swap many of the parts. But there is an easier answer... Sure, just move into CSP where the parts-swapping is totally legal. -Josh2 -- Joshua Hadler '74 914 2.0 CSP/Bi - Hooligan Racing #29 - CONIVOR '87 Quantum Syncro - aka stealth quattro jhadler@rmi.net http://rainbow.rmi.net/~jhadler/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 15:18:13 1999 From: "Meyer, Brian J" To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:16:39 -0500 Subject: RE: Novice classing > Jamie Sculerati[SMTP:jamies@mrj.com] writes > > The value of allowing region to modify the class structure, IMO, is for > permanent changes desired by the local competitors -- allowing SFCs in SP, > or unlimited wheels in Prepared, for example -- rather than event-by-event > classing of drivers based on a combination of car and skill level. > Classing drivers rather than their cars runs the risk of having a > disgruntled competitor who's been bumped from one class to another simply > because they've begun to get their driving together. Sure, they were told > when they started -- which doesn't always make a difference. > > IMO, the best answer is to class 'em honestly -- if there's a local novice > class to put them in, so much the better, but at least then you're not > stuck with explaining why someone with headers, SFCs and a boost > controller was in Stock last month and is now in Mod. > Good point, but I still say once the newbie shouldn't get classed 'honestly' until they become more competitive. First of all, if they had headers, SFC's and a boost controller I'd stick them in SP rather then stock, and I'd explain that the boost controller technically should put them in Mod. Using the example from before: Newbie (Fred) shows up in a lowered Eclipse with wheels, springs and a non-stock boost control. According to current rules Fred would be stuck running against Barney's 400 HP tube frame EMod super sled, so we cut Fred some slack and let him run against the other lowered DSM's and CameroBirds in ESP. We still mention that the boost control would put him EM unless he removes it - but he doesn't have to right away. Fred is happy to be among similar *looking* cars but probably will still get beat just because of the tires. When his driving improves, he'll probably decide to get serious about competing, which means learning the rules, and maybe buying the car or equipment required to compete at the level he wants to. If we had a ESP turbo class that allowed SFC's and unlimited boost controls Fred would be just as happy, until he decides to get competitive and run a Divisional or National event where he is forced to run with Barney in EMod. Both ways could work. It's a judgement call, but I'd rather have the newbie come back for the next event. Brian Meyer Wichita Region SCCA '90 CRX si - CSP From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 15:20:03 1999 From: rsmith@bfmni.com To: "'Autox.team.net'" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:18:26 -0400 Subject: RE: Parts swapping & type R's The type R saga continues in most parts of North America. They are being stolen from everywhere. One recently was parked inside a locked compound at someone's house, with another car parked behind it. The crooks got the gate open, moved the car out of the way, and absconded with the R in the dead of night. Sure as heck the whole driveline now resides in a Civic somewhere. Dealers have had 2 or more cars stolen in the same evening. The crooks are watching the lots and if the dealers don't lock 'em inside overnight - Oops, gone! Racer Robb From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 15:53:15 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: Jamie or Trisha Ridenour Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:53:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Headlight Help very little autox content if any Jamie or Trisha Ridenour wrote: > I'd like to upgrade the pitiful head lamps in my wifes 94 Mitsu > Galant. I think I want Hella replacement bulbs but haven't clue which > bulbs to ask for or even who to ask. For everything you ever wanted to know about automotive lighting, see the Stern Lighting site: http://lighting.mbz.org/ Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 15:57:48 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: we2fat4asp@seanet.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:55:01 EDT Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes we2fat4asp@seanet.com writes: > Are you thinkin that is a good fit given the sophistication of the > suspension and ABS on those late model bimmers? Oh yeah, they are soooooo much better than a Vette, especially the front strut & rear trailing arm of the Z3 2.8L. If I were you I'd worry more about the M3, especially one in particular. :-) > How are the numbers workin out? 240Z with 2.8L engine, 220 hp, 2300lb, 3.54 gear, 10" wheels Z3 2.8L, estimated 235 hp, 2750lb, 4.15 gear, 9"/10" wheels Vette input? M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 16:17:20 1999 From: Brian C Knoblauch To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:17:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes >Sunblock can remove the paint on the interior bits of your car! Several >manufacturers now specify Sunscreen resistance on their interior paint >programs. Hmmmm, sounds like a new way to legally reduce the weight of the car in stock ;-) How much does that paint weigh! ;-) ;-) Brian Knoblauch '91 MR2 4em Team SOL #8 http://www3.sscorp.com/~briank From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 16:33:38 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: Joehgn@aol.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:31:44 EDT Subject: Re: GEEZ software and G-cube I'd love to tell you how it works, but since I'm still waiting patiently for the Palm Pilot software..... Hi Byron :-) M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 16:42:05 1999 From: Paul Foster To: "team.net" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:39:28 -0400 Subject: Was Why smaller pulley, Now Did Anybody Here Read the May Fastrack??? > Boost mods are almost impossible to police, and the gains from each one will > be different and would make a classing nightmare. <<>> Well... not according to the SEB. Due I think to Farzaan's post that you could get basically infinite boost by deliberately choking off the waste gate exhaust they are now considering a rule change that would require SP turbo cars to run with the stock cat system. Good grief! Talk about instantly uncompetitive! You can _forget_ about the RX7TT in ASP! <<>> I agree they should allow them. If they allow any engine management system on NA cars then fair is fair. But the SCCA has never taken a very fair stance with turbo cars. In fact, they outlawed them from club racing a number of years ago. it looks like only a matter of time before the same thing happens with Solo II... Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 16:46:54 1999 From: Mark Sirota To: "Mark J. Andy" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:47:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Alignment "Mark J. Andy" wrote: > In my mind the major thing toe (in or out) does in a car with decent > Ackerman geometry stuff is to preload the suspension bushings. > ... > I think that's why people seem to like toe out and its why I run some > (3/16" in my case). Everyone says it makes the car turn in better and > I think this is why. > ... > So in short I think that running toe out doesn't do anything more than > preload the bushings so that steering response is more immediate, but > I haven't ever run measurements to verify that's the only affect. I think there's an additional effect that's worth discussing. Assuming a car with reasonable ackerman (something close to 100%), then adding static toe-out causes the inside front tire to turn too far. This creates some drag around the inside front tire, which causes the car to want to rotate around the inside front tire -- hence, quicker turn in. I have no idea if this is a real effect, or if it's more or less significant than the bushing preload that Mark mentions, but it makes sense to me. Note that real race cars don't have rubber bushings and therefore should get very little preload, but toe adjustments do affect turn-in. Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 17:20:57 1999 From: Lindsay Wilson To: "autox@autox.team.net" , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:19:13 -0400 Subject: Palm Pilot as temp probe, (was GEEZ SW) Speaking of Palm Pilots, while I was at the BFG Spec. Racer Ford tire testing at Roebling Road, the BFG engineers used Palm Pilots to record ALL the data they take. They had the temp probe interfaced to the Palm Pilot and would take the tire temps in a specified order. The temps were auto stored in the Palm Pilot. The BFG engineer didn't seem to want to tell me much about the system when I asked, but he did say that they used 'public' program which one of their guys had modified. Besides taking the temps., they could also input tire pressures with notations, and the drivers comments about the tires. All in all, way kool stuff. Lindsay ---------- From: TeamZ3@aol.com[SMTP:TeamZ3@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:31 PM To: Joehgn@aol.com; autox@autox.team.net Cc: bshort@AFSinc.com Subject: Re: GEEZ software and G-cube I'd love to tell you how it works, but since I'm still waiting patiently for the Palm Pilot software..... Hi Byron :-) M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 17:24:59 1999 From: "Mark J. Andy" To: autox mailing list Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Alignment Howdy, On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Mark Sirota wrote: > Assuming a car with reasonable ackerman (something close to 100%), then > adding static toe-out causes the inside front tire to turn too far. > This creates some drag around the inside front tire, which causes the > car to want to rotate around the inside front tire -- hence, quicker > turn in. > > I have no idea if this is a real effect, or if it's more or less > significant than the bushing preload that Mark mentions, but it makes > sense to me. > > Note that real race cars don't have rubber bushings and therefore should > get very little preload, but toe adjustments do affect turn-in. That makes a lot of sense. I agree that I dunno to what degree it would affect things, but it would account for both the turn-in improvement and a mid-corner understeer (since the inside front tire is now turned too far). The only fly in the ointment would be that it shouldn't matter if the above car is running toe out or in. In either case the inside front tire would have extra drag (give the outside front tire tracking straight due to weight transfer). Perhaps the desire of a toed-in car's inside wheel to go straight rather than turn more would simply overcome the minor drag however... Either way, that's a pretty good idea! Wouldn't it be cool if we all had jobs where we could instrument our cars and test this stuff? Mark From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 17:25:01 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: lwilson1@ford.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:22:09 EDT Subject: Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe, (was GEEZ SW) In a message dated 4/29/99 6:19:31 PM Central Daylight Time, lwilson1@ford.com writes: > The BFG engineer didn't seem to want to tell me much about the > system when I asked, but he did say that they used 'public' program which > one of their guys had modified. Read about it here: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:37:33 -0700 Subject: The Legend of R Tires.....;-) Miller, Don wrote about Yoko A008 tires: > > On a Neon I ran 34 in front and 28 in back. For some reason I could never > wear these out. Ran two seasons with them. ------------- The Legend ------------- Come with me now to a land far, far away, where autocross tires are all nearly equal, and all will last a season or more. Anyone can afford a set, and once bought, will provide the owners with a long competitive experience. The main differences between first place and the others is driving skill, and even a little luck now and then. Each of the manufacturers offers a similar set, the only difference being personal opinion about which is better.........well, some things will never change! But there once was a time, back in the "Dark Ages", when some tread wear indicators were actually stated as "ZERO", and meant it! Can you imagine? Tires would last only for 80, 60, even only 40 runs, and were defended with "Hey, it's just the cost of competition". One wit even bragged about how we could not take away his right to buy these tires, and it was tough toenails if some could not afford to keep up :-) Luckily, shortly thereafter, the drinking water was found to be tainted, and the illegal mind-altering drug removed from the reservoirs, and sanity returned to the land. Those manufacturers with 40-run-tires to this day still have large stocks on hand since no sane person would buy them. So - is this really a legend or fairy tale? Is there really something in the water making us believe that 40 runs on a set of tires is "just the way things are?" Or is this just a dream, that shortly we will all wake up from, and return to the days when a tire was a tire, and not an art gum eraser. Who knows............***mysterious voice***.........THE SHADOW KNOWS!!!!!!! The End. Scott Meyers DS 240 SX SE From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 18:47:46 1999 From: Paul Schelling & Kate Hughes To: Mark Sirota Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:41:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Alignment Mark Sirota wrote: > > > Assuming a car with reasonable ackerman (something close to 100%), then > adding static toe-out causes the inside front tire to turn too far. > This creates some drag around the inside front tire, which causes the > car to want to rotate around the inside front tire -- hence, quicker > turn in. > > I have no idea if this is a real effect, or if it's more or less > significant than the bushing preload that Mark mentions, but it makes > sense to me. > Interesting. I have recently been swayed to the belief (it didn't take too much - a McKamey instructor's exclamation) that my car has too much toe out and that is what causes me to have this "cliff" in the steering. The symptoms, turn in, turn in, turn in, WHOA! It's like I just planted the inside tire. I'm planning to change that the next time I get it aligned, but this is an interesting explanation which parallels my experience. (This is the Miata, by the way) Kate Hughes Glen Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 19:00:41 1999 From: Woody Hair To: TeamZ3@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:01:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes > I am thinking BSP, but a different type of Z car; BMW Z3 6 cylinder to be > exact. The SEB is proposing that the BMW Z3 with 2.5L and 2.8L engines be > placed in ASP, along with the higher horsepower BMW 3.2L MZ3's (separate line > listings, so no engine swapping). > M Sipe Does anyone know why the SEB feels two Z3 models with a difference of 70 hp should be in the same class (2.5 and M versions) while Honda and Neon models with a difference of 12 or so horsepower are put in different classes? It's not the first time BMWs have been classed like this. Woody Hair '88 M3 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 19:01:53 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:07:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes -----Original Message----- From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: we2fat4asp@seanet.com ; autox@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 2:56 PM Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes >we2fat4asp@seanet.com writes: > >> Are you thinkin that is a good fit given the sophistication of the >> suspension and ABS on those late model bimmers? > >Oh yeah, they are soooooo much better than a Vette, especially the front >strut & rear trailing arm of the Z3 2.8L. If I were you I'd worry more about >the M3, especially one in particular. :-) Well see, that's the difference tween me an U, I am not worried till I am able to beat the carz already in the class :-) I was talkin about how much better they were than a Z car not a Corvette, that's another story aint it? sbw >> How are the numbers workin out? > >240Z with 2.8L engine, 220 hp, 2300lb, 3.54 gear, 10" wheels >Z3 2.8L, estimated 235 hp, 2750lb, 4.15 gear, 9"/10" wheels > >Vette input? > >M Sipe > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 19:06:36 1999 From: Rex Weatherford To: "Mark J. Andy" , auto-x Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:02:46 -0400 Subject: Alignment questions! "Mark J. Andy" wrote: > Howdy, > That makes a lot of sense. I agree that I dunno to what degree it would > affect things, but it would account for both the turn-in improvement and a > mid-corner understeer (since the inside front tire is now turned too far). > > Either way, that's a pretty good idea! Wouldn't it be cool if we all had > jobs where we could instrument our cars and test this stuff? > > Mark While we are on alignments. ;^) I just had new tires put on (Dunlop SP8000's, tire rack has great prices on these currently) and got an alignment done. I had done my own alignment on the car using a method described by someone here on the list using string and levels. I think I did pretty good. It seems that my measurements were off a little on the camber, due to an unlevel floor that I couldn't measure the error for (oops)and had some toe (which is my question) . My car seems a little odd. I wanted to get near 0 camber for some trips I will be taking, but they couldn't! My car would only go to -1.3. I had it set to -1.5 for auto-x. Anyway here is my question. I had -.99 degrees of total toe. They didn't say which way this was, in or out. Is this toe in or out and just how much is this in inches? My rims are 16' BTW. Also the same goes for the rear. It has a total toe of -.49 degrees. What is this? Rear camber is minimal at -.22 and -.26. Thanks for the help. -- Rex Weatherford 92 Beretta GTZ 2.3 92,000 miles 89 Beretta GT 2.8 160,000 miles #22 GS Atlanta Region SCCA Solo II G-Stock 95 Grand Am GT 3100 V-6 (can't get my wife to let me race it) http://www.mindspring.com/~rweatherford/rexw/rexhome.html From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 19:22:52 1999 From: Jason Bowles To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:19:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Alignment Is there any relationship with toe to camber? if I have more neg camber less toe or vice versa? I have a neon that will be getting aligned tommorow -3 front -1 rear and 1/8th" toe out. With 225/50-13 hoosiers on 13x8's. Jason At 07:41 PM 4/29/99 -0500, you wrote: >Mark Sirota wrote: > > > > > > Assuming a car with reasonable ackerman (something close to 100%), then > > adding static toe-out causes the inside front tire to turn too far. > > This creates some drag around the inside front tire, which causes the > > car to want to rotate around the inside front tire -- hence, quicker > > turn in. > > > > I have no idea if this is a real effect, or if it's more or less > > significant than the bushing preload that Mark mentions, but it makes > > sense to me. > > > > >Interesting. I have recently been swayed to the belief (it didn't take >too much - a McKamey instructor's exclamation) that my car has too much >toe out and that is what causes me to have this "cliff" in the >steering. The symptoms, turn in, turn in, turn in, WHOA! It's like I >just planted the inside tire. I'm planning to change that the next time >I get it aligned, but this is an interesting explanation which parallels >my experience. (This is the Miata, by the way) > >Kate Hughes >Glen Region From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 19:24:17 1999 From: XFlashJR@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:22:47 EDT Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes In a message dated 99-04-29 21:03:27 EDT, you write: << autox@autox.team.net >> hey don't be dissin the z car, i have to say a well equpied z car can whip your vette of Z3 2.6 any day. If you want any proof just look what car won the 98 natinals in bsp. um let me think, oh yeah a z car. so be carfull what you say, just playin but the z-car even foe being out dated is very good competiton From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 19:30:04 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:28:21 EDT Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes In a message dated 4/29/99 8:22:47 PM Central Daylight Time, XFlash JR writes: > hey don't be dissin the z car, i have to say a well equpied z car can whip > your vette of Z3 2.6 any day. If you want any proof just look what car won > the 98 natinals in bsp. um let me think, oh yeah a z car. so be carfull what > you say, just playin but the z-car even foe being out dated is very good > competiton Hey, slow down. I never said any such thing. I'm just trying to decide if the BMW Z3 2.5/2.8L is applicable for BSP, rather than the ASP. As for the other guy, his smartalec copout was to be expected . M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 19:41:05 1999 From: XFlashJR@aol.com To: TeamZ3@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:39:31 EDT Subject: oh sorry hey sorry i was just trying to get my point across, on the matter of the Z3 in bsap/asp, i think the car would be a high end bsp car or a low end asp car, i saw this because it will proberly do very well in bsp and get some good competiton to the vette and z's, but in asp you have the all mighty 3rd generation rx-7, and i have to say the rx-7 is to far a better vechile then the z3, so it is realy a hard decison, from the info you have gathered what have you decided p.s were you at the merdiian natinal tour, i was there and i think you were there, weren't you in a white z3 coupe, if so i ahve to say that is one awesome looking car flashjr #71 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 20:03:39 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:01:03 EDT Subject: Re: Alignment While we are on the subject of alignments, I noticed that Kumho stated their tire LIKES to have the max positive caster a car can give. Any thoughts on this? Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 20:10:06 1999 From: "The Christianson's" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:13:02 -0500 Subject: Iowa Region Goes to Marshalltown Go-Kart Track The Iowa Region is hosting a Solo II event at the Marshalltown Go-Kart Track in Marshalltown Iowa, on Sunday May 2nd. This is a .6 mile road course for Karts and an absolute hoot to run an autocross on. First car at noon Sunday. For more information Call Jeff Ellerby 319-373-2785 or Jeff Christianson 319-432-7286. PS. No special stickers are required. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 20:49:24 1999 From: washburn To: Eric Moon Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:44:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Clutchless shifts/rev matching... Eric Moon wrote: > > > Could someone please explain 'clutchless shifting' to me? Is it simply a > matter of matching the rev that you would be in if you were to change gears > normally with the clutch? Yup. > Is this bad for the car? (as if autocrossing in itself is 'good' for a car!!) > Cars were built for quite a few years before they had syncros. I once broke my left big toe on the night just before a trip to New York. (Don't ask how) I just wrapped it up, and left a 5:00 am to catch my flight. Much to my annoyance, and extreme pain, I could not fully depress the clutch pedal in my Audi. I drove to the airport without once touching the clutch pedal, and I still had an operable tranny when I got there. Rev matching is the key. -- Patrick Washburn Wausau, WI Land of Cheese 95 DS Neon Moooooooooo. From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 20:57:42 1999 From: skyscraper@mindspring.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:57:46 -0500 Subject: Southwest Division Solo II Championship Round I The info for Southwest Division Solo II Championship Round I can be found at the SoWeLa region web page at: http://members.laol.net/kevin/sowela/ Jim Veillon, Treasurer and Spinout editor. Southwest Louisiana Region S.C.C.A. 34 ES, 1999 Honda Civic SI From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 21:03:19 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: "team.net" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:59:16 -0700 Subject: Now Did Anybody Here Read the May Fastrack??? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Really, too much is made of power, and the magic of turbos, in autocrossing. My turboford has plenty of power with allowable ESP mods and a *bone stock factory exhaust system*. I posted after my last runs, I am *so happy* with the car's power that I'm focusing on my driving and its suspension. Will I change the factory exhaust system out for one that will give me more power? Darned right, because it's my *street car* (power to pass, and all that). And would I be disappointed if I made that change, and the SEB made a rules change that "boosted" my car out of SP? Darned right. But turbofords have oodles of power, oodles of braking ability, and the SVO's (as an example) only limitations as an autocross car are its driver's skill (me), its suspension (and the rules allow *plenty* of useful changes there), and the driver's insistence on competing on street tires (also me, and I could change my mind on that). Oh, and a race harness would help a lot. Could I get more boost with my stock turbo? Absolutely (well, gauge, really). The stock T3 in 60 trim can stay within a desirably 70% compressor efficiency at a 2.8PR (that's about 27 psi) though at that point the assembly's rpm are really getting up there. But that would be silly -- no, that would be against the rules. Even if exhaust is "unlimited", the wastegate outlet is part of the boost control system, and the rules say that can't be modified. But I digress. My point (and I do have one) is that there is so much more to autocrossing than horsepower. And, no, I didn't read the May Fastrack -- I haven't even been able to lay my hands on one to find out about the SVO and the ESP/FSP proposals! Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 -----Original Message----- From: Paul Foster To: team.net Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 3:38 PM Subject: Was Why smaller pulley, Now Did Anybody Here Read the May Fastrack??? >> Boost mods are almost impossible to police, and the gains from each one will >> be different and would make a classing nightmare. > ><<have a >natural limit to the amount of power that can be made with the stock >turbo/blower. The things only flow so much air, and no matter how much >wizardry >and voodoo you do with boost control devices, _as long as the impellers >and >housings themselves are not modified_, there is an upper limit to the >amount of >power a given motor can make.>>> > >Well... not according to the SEB. Due I think to Farzaan's post that you >could get basically infinite boost by deliberately choking off the waste >gate exhaust they are now considering a rule change that would require >SP turbo cars to run with the stock cat system. Good grief! Talk about >instantly uncompetitive! You can _forget_ about the RX7TT in ASP! > ><<controllers in SP.>>> > >I agree they should allow them. If they allow any engine management >system on NA cars then fair is fair. But the SCCA has never taken a very >fair stance with turbo cars. In fact, they outlawed them from club >racing a number of years ago. it looks like only a matter of time before >the same thing happens with Solo II... > >Paul Foster > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 21:07:17 1999 From: "Jodi Fordahl" To: "Team. Net" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:01:25 -0700 Subject: Ride for Pro? Major last minute notice but my ride for the Atwater Pro fell through. Is there anyone out there looking for a lady driver? Would prefer L2 class but at this point I'm not going to be too picky. Thanks, -Jodi Fordahl From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 21:09:57 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:08:25 -0700 Subject: RE: Rock-bottom-in-cost? > I have autocrossed a lot in years gone by. I would autocross > quite often even now if I found events within my close-to-home range > that offered the following: > > A class for HS cars only on street tires. > > That is all I'm looking for, at present, as far as my own individual > autocrossing is concerned. This has got to be the ultimate I-class argument I've ever seen. > We have had a street tire class around here for several years. > It came into being partly because of my years of preaching against soft > compound tires on stock cars. > > I liked the street tire class at first. At least I thought it was > better than running on hard tires against cars on soft tires. Or not running at all. > > The way the class is done here -- one big class, all stock and street > prepared cars on street tires with a treadwear rating of 140 or above are > eligible. The PAX index decides the finishing order. So, how would you propose to have an 'H-stock only, street tire only' class? How many scores of HS street tire cars ARE there in your region? Would you propose a separate street tire class for each corresponding Stock or Street Prepared class? To what end? For who? Would we have to provide suitable competitors for you, too? > My complaint is that the PAX changes every year based on things > that happen far from here on courses and with cars that are not on hard tires. Cars, > courses and tires that are not reflective of our local situation. > > No matter which way the PAX was changing, making it easier or > harder for me, I'd still find it unsatisfactory and un-satisfying as a way to > determine who wins and who doesn't. Kind of throws an extraneous penalty or > advantage with no real connection to the competitors around here who run > more-or-less regularly. Kind of artificial. Sure. And your alternative is?? A special RacerRay index for HS cars on street tires? Where will THAT data come from? ("Gee, I feel like I should have finished about third overall at today's event. I'll take a .521 index, thanks.") > I've had the same car for 7 years. It hasn't changed. Some of the regular > street tire folks the same. The PAX factors have changed yearly, > moving the numbers closer to each other. For me it has been rather like > having 75 lbs. added to my car each year. Oh, PLEASE!! Running Street Tire in an H-Stock car is THE BEST possible scenario for running under the PAX index. Street tires, like rain and other poor surface situations, levels the playing field by handicapping the cars with better suspension and/or power, that now can't make use of those advantages. Running Street Tire last year in an ESP Camaro, I had to give THREE SECONDS to an HS car on a 60 second course (for me). This year, in SS, I have to give up MORE than three seconds. The PAX index would reflect reality much better for street tired cars if it were compressed by about 15-20%. > I have proposed another solution to the problem. To run more than > a few times a year it would require a rule change by about 5 clubs within my > range. I don't have the time off from work to attend meetings of the TSCC, > much less several other outfits scattered over the map. Wow. So, make you happy, all that the autocross world needs to do is change the rules for five different clubs that you're too busy to ask in person. Plus SCCA of course. We'll get right on it. > National rules that made a place for an HS car on street tires would mean > that when I hit the road I would be going to Richmond or N.C. -- > or wherever -- to a class that makes sense to me and is worth the effort. Good > competition, not just running for fun. Low cost too. Not > requiring much car preparation. 3 minutes of running isn't worth a lot of investment > or work to me. And exactly, precisely WHAT is now stopping you from getting together with whatever other Street Tire HS-ers feel your same pain, and competing heads up? You don't want to compete on index, right? Do you want to run heads-up with AM?? What the hell are you looking for? > If I am the only one who sees it this way the SCCA and various clubs and > Regions aren't leaving out a significant number of participants. > Short of a national survey of some kind there really isn't a way to be sure > of how many might be in the market for such an autox situation. Sure there is. Participation and lobbying. Those things you can't be bothered to do. The things that got Formula V a class, and Vettes into BSP, and Vipers kicked out of stock (oops!). > That's pretty much what I'm looking for. I have been advised by a > few that if I don't like the way things are or it isn't fun I should just not > do it. A close reading of one of my posts and a little memory would reveal > that I have already said I am happy to find other things to do on Sunday. I > got hooked on autox years ago. The habit isn't hard to break though. Build it > and I will come. Leave things as-is and my entry fee stays in my pocket. I'd agree with the few. Your wish list is so totally unrealistic that it boggles the imagination. Do you go to Century Theatres and ask for your own private screening, too? KeS From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 21:15:36 1999 From: "Kevin Stevens" To: , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:13:52 -0700 Subject: RE: G-force specs? Sure, they're on Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/index.html). Select "By brand", "B.F. Goodrich", "g-Force T/A R1", "Specifications"... KeS > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of ConeChasr@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 04:29 > To: autox@autox.team.net > Subject: G-force specs? > > > Anyone know where I can find them? I looked at the tire rack > site but with > no luck. Any suggestions? > > TIA, > > Daniel Ledford > 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 21:19:03 1999 From: "Jeffrey Lloyd" To: woodym3@erols.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:16:10 PDT Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes Woody, This is Street Prepaired, like your honda These cars are in 3 classes in stock ///M =SS 2.8 =AS 2.3 *mabye* BS (handles sig worse then my 4 cyl but more hp) and rightfully classed, I think pretty much all the honda's your thinking about fall into CSP.. I still think the 2.3 (with the big heavy Iron Block) should not have to play with the big boys, where else would YOU put them? Jeff Lloyd '96 Z3 1.9 BS "which one of these is not like the others" >Does anyone know why the SEB feels two Z3 models with a difference of 70 >hp should be in the same class (2.5 and M versions) while Honda and Neon >models with a difference of 12 or so horsepower are put in different >classes? It's not the first time BMWs have been classed like this. >Woody Hair >'88 M3 > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 21:24:23 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: skyscraper@mindspring.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:28:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Southwest Division Solo II Championship Round I - Really? skyscraper@mindspring.com wrote: > > The info for Southwest Division Solo II Championship Round I can be > found at the SoWeLa region web page at: Uh, Louisiana is in the Southwest Region? What is this, the NFL??????? Scott Meyers Come to Arizona for REAL Southwest flavor.... :-) From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 21:49:52 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Jodi Fordahl" , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:39:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Ride for Pro? >Major last minute notice but my ride for the Atwater Pro fell through. Is >there anyone out there looking for a lady driver? Would prefer L2 class but >at this point I'm not going to be too picky. > >Thanks, >-Jodi Fordahl =========================== Ooh ooh ooh. I'm looking for a lady driver. Single of course!! Sorry, I tried to resist but the voices in the monitor made me do it. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 22:23:14 1999 From: "Scotty *BOB* White" To: , Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:14:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes Geeeze you girls are soooooooo sensitive! ;-) What I was saying was that the Corvette is fast for different reasons than the Z cars but I think the Z3s would be fast for more of the same kind of reasons as the Z car is only be much better doing it? Ya know, short wheel base narrow track lightweight etc... compared to high torque big fat good handling overweight Karvettes. Junior was tryin to taunt me with Tunnell or someother bimmer guy but I think that is just wonderful if they come over to BSP, the more the merrier. I was just wonderin if the Z bimmers could end up being a whole bunch better than the Z car which seems to be pretty damn good :-) I have been sayin that a well driven Z car could get it done all along and I was right wasn't I? So the best thing for junior is to quit taunting and XKJFRSJJ or whatever to relax and realize noone is insulting his pressious datsun ;-) It was a very good thing for the sport to see the Z car win last year even if the diehard bowtie red bleedin karvette guys are cryin about it. Kinda squelched that whole big whinin cryin kickin screamin pissin moanin deal about the C4s didn't it? ;-) (shut up dot!) Although given the current crop of BSP drivers it seems quite possible that the Z will not repeat, especialy after I have a talk with vicTor about a few things ;-) sbw -----Original Message----- From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:29 PM Subject: Re: Are you thinking BSP? yes >In a message dated 4/29/99 8:22:47 PM Central Daylight Time, XFlash JR writes: > >> hey don't be dissin the z car, i have to say a well equpied z car can whip >> your vette of Z3 2.6 any day. If you want any proof just look what car >won >> the 98 natinals in bsp. um let me think, oh yeah a z car. so be carfull >what >> you say, just playin but the z-car even foe being out dated is very good >> competiton > > >Hey, slow down. I never said any such thing. I'm just trying to decide if >the BMW Z3 2.5/2.8L is applicable for BSP, rather than the ASP. As for the >other guy, his smartalec copout was to be expected . > >M Sipe > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 23:17:27 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:55:58 -0400 Subject: Re: finishing order Subject: finishing order Nope, you came in second. DFL is reserved for all those who don't bother to show..... Phil O. >>P.S. If you're second place in a class of two, are you still DFL? If so, >>chalk one more up for Team DFL! > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Thu Apr 29 23:49:23 1999 From: Jim Ourand To: "Phillip S. Osborne" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:47:09 -0700 Subject: Re: finishing order Disagree. Last in class is DFL; DNS is for those who don't show....... "Phillip S. Osborne" wrote: > > Subject: finishing order > > Nope, you came in second. DFL is reserved for all those who don't bother to > show..... > > Phil O. > > >>P.S. If you're second place in a class of two, are you still DFL? If so, > >>chalk one more up for Team DFL! > > -- Jim Ourand, Still Looking For A Car, Old Fartz, DCCSD Pro Image Signs & Banner (619) 265-2052 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 04:51:04 1999 From: RacerRay52@aol.com To: Kevin_Stevens@bigfoot.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:49:34 EDT Subject: Re: Rock-bottom-in-cost? I said: << > I've had the same car for 7 years. It hasn't changed. Some of the regular > street tire folks the same. The PAX factors have changed yearly, > moving the numbers closer to each other. For me it has been rather like > having 75 lbs. added to my car each year. To which Kevin Stevens reacted: Oh, PLEASE!! Running Street Tire in an H-Stock car is THE BEST possible scenario for running under the PAX index. Street tires, like rain and other poor surface situations, levels the playing field by handicapping the cars with better suspension and/or power, that now can't make use of those advantages. Running Street Tire last year in an ESP Camaro, I had to give THREE SECONDS to an HS car on a 60 second course (for me). This year, in SS, I have to give up MORE than three seconds. The PAX index would reflect reality much better for street tired cars if it were compressed by about 15-20%. >> ................................................................ It is too easy to take a part of what I said out of context and pretend that is all I said on a subject in order to score some easy but irrelevant debating points. It is the yearly changing that makes the PAX unsatisfactory not just the fact that the changes have been going against HS. Which BTW it has been. In 1998 if an HS car ran a 50 sec raw time and a Corvette ran a 50 sec raw time the PAXed times for them would be: Corvette 41.95 and HS car 39.4. in 1999 the same two cars running 50 sec raw times would yield PAX times of 41.5 for the 'Vette and 39.25 for the HS car. The difference between the two in 98 would have been 2.55 sec. In '99 it would be 2.25 sec. You can go right through the PAX factors for the last few years and see that the difference between most classes and HS has been shrinking. There are a couple of exceptions in the ST list but the factors for the stock classes are getting closer together without exception. A couple of examples: the '99 index has HS at .785 and GS at.788 a difference of .003.In 1998 the difference was .006. And so on down the list. If someone expresses a preference for something different in some part of the rules and it isn't liked by someone else it seems there could be a fresher and more enlightening way to express the disagreement than to fall back on the meaningless device of saying "you want an I class". A little originality would make this excercise more entertaining. I'm surprised the word "whine" was not brought into the discussion. Once someone uses a word or phrase like that it seems it just gets copied over and over. "Whine" and "I class" -- two team.net favorites. Oldies but goodies. No, no one has to jump to it and change anything just to suit me. If I see what I want I'll buy. If not I won't. I'm not going to buy sticky tires anytime soon. I'm not going to run in a PAXed class. If I feel like running at all I'll run in the regular HS class and take my lumps. I don't mind arguing. I like spirited debate. But it requires something more in the way of facts and reasons for it to lead anywhere. Try again. Ray From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 06:18:47 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Sam & Greg Scharnberg Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:12:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Solo II at Marshalltown GoKart Track Sunday May 2 I'm planning to leave for the Marshalltown Iowa event tommorrow. I started looking for a hotel yesterday. It seems that there is some kind of convention in either Ames or Des Moines this weekend. I called 6 hotels in Ames and 9 in Des Moines and they were all full. I did however finally find one in Marshalltown. Comfort Inn $60.00 with a AAA discount. If you are planning to drive to the event and think you will just "Find something" think again! A good bet at this point is Super 8 in Marshalltown. They still had some rooms yesterday. Mike B. TLS#1 Sam & Greg Scharnberg wrote: > Iowa Region, SCCA presents the first in a three (3) event Solo II series at > the > Marshalltown GoKart Track this coming Sunday, May 2, 1999. Directions to the > track and information concerning the layout of the facility can be located at: > > http://www.bestofiowa > .com/ia-intl-raceway/index.html > > The other two events in the Series are scheduled for Sunday, August 1st and > Sunday, October 3rd. The Series will be scored based on the results of all > three events and it will take participation in two events to qualify for the > Series. Awards will be sweatshirts or jackets. > > Registration will open about 9:30 am or when Bob Kistler arrives. > The first car will be on Track by 11:00 am. > Entry fee is $17.00 for SCCA Member and $22.00 Guests > > For additional info contact Bob Kistler at (319)643-5421 or Jeff Ellerby at > (319)373-2785 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 06:43:53 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:37:57 -0500 Subject: Pax, Ok hurt me Can anybody tell me what the acronym "Pax" stands for? I hate the whole Pax idea but have always wondered what it stood for? To me the whole Pax thing is sort of like the Wind Chill. How does anybody else know how cold I feel or how fast I would have been in another car? Pax= Pretend Auto-X? Ok Stock guys, Flame Me Mike(We don't need no stinking Pax)B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 06:48:48 1999 From: khschenk@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:37:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Legends cars in Solo II Is anyone out there running a Legends car in Solo II? If so, I would like to get in touch with them about running one myself. Thanks. Kurt Schenk 1995 DS Neon ACR khschenk@hslc.org From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 06:54:26 1999 From: Mtnman3620@aol.com To: hottvr@tfs.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:51:49 EDT Subject: Re: Pax, Ok hurt me In a message dated 4/30/99 8:45:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hottvr@tfs.net writes: << To me the whole Pax thing is sort of like the Wind Chill. How does anybody else know how cold I feel or how fast I would have been in another car? Because we just know...don't ask how... =^) Ok Stock guys, Flame Me >> Us not-so-fast-stock-class guys like it...makes us feel better when we get lambasted by you mod car guys... Daniel Ledford 99 Mitsu Eclipse GSX From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:07:45 1999 From: "Greg Lee" To: "Team.Net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:05:58 -0500 Subject: Re: GEEZ software and G-cube Ditto. The laptop is just too much to fool with. Patiently awaiting the Palm Pilot software. ----- Original Message ----- From: > I'd love to tell you how it works, but since I'm still waiting patiently for > the Palm Pilot software..... > > Hi Byron :-) > > M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:10:42 1999 From: "Miller, Don" To: "'autox@autox.team.net'" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:07:28 -0600 Subject: RE: paint schemes and weight I just saw a show about funny car bodies and how they are made. The average paint scheme on those bodies weighs in around 85 lbs. By going with white gel coat and minimal color paint, they reduced the weight to 45 lbs. Just an FYI incase anyone wants to run a naked car. Notice I said a naked car, not naked in your car. Don Miller TLS #8 68 Datsun Roadster (getting so close to running I can smell the oil leaks now) -----Original Message----- From: Brian C Knoblauch [mailto:bluemr2@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 4:18 PM To: autox@autox.team.net Subject: >Sunblock can remove the paint on the interior bits of your car! Several >manufacturers now specify Sunscreen resistance on their interior paint >programs. Hmmmm, sounds like a new way to legally reduce the weight of the car in stock ;-) How much does that paint weigh! ;-) ;-) Brian Knoblauch '91 MR2 4em Team SOL #8 http://www3.sscorp.com/~briank From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:20:17 1999 From: tvrjim@gte.net To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:16:11 -0400 Subject: Help mounting 86 Vette rear Trying to find dimensions to mount a 86 Vette rear complete with suspension into an E/M car. Help please. Thank you. Jim Kuhlman 68 TVR Griffith E/M From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:32:10 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Mike Bultemeier" , Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:40:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Pax, Ok hurt me -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bultemeier >Can anybody tell me what the acronym "Pax" stands for? I hate the whole >Pax idea but have always wondered what it stood for? "Professional Auto-cross." Invented specifically to support a series which no longer exists -- but seems to have proven useful enough that the index has lived on and spawned many imitators. >To me the whole Pax thing is sort of like the Wind Chill. How does anybody else know how >cold I feel or how fast I would have been in another car? Pax= Pretend Auto-X? It doesn't tell you how fast you would be in another car -- it estimates your time based on the assumption the top of your class was as fast as the top of A Modified. This makes it a pretty crude tool, but it's pretty useful for combining groups of dissimilar cars which otherwise would be running in classes of one or two. Novice classes, for example, or some of those lonely slick-tired sports racers which turn up held together with chewing gum and duct tape.... :) It would probably work better if there were separate indicies for Stock, SP, Prepared and Mod -- that is, all the Stock cars were referenced to SS, SP cars to ASP, etc. But that's alot of extra work for the folks putting their own time in on these. >Ok Stock guys, Flame Me Heck no -- that would reduce the wind chill. We want to hear how cold it's getting. Jamie '92 Prelude Si (.78 something on the PAX index) Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:34:00 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:31:22 -0400 Subject: Farzaan's Wastegate (was: Why Smaller Pulley?) Paul Foster wrote: > DG wrote: >> All forced induction cars have a natural limit to the amount >> of power that can be made with the stock turbo/blower. The >> things only flow so much air, and no matter how much >> wizardry and voodoo you do with boost control devices, _as >> long as the impellers and housings themselves are not modified_, >> there is an upper limit to the amount of power a given motor >> can make. > Well... not according to the SEB. Due I think to Farzaan's post that you > could get basically infinite boost by deliberately choking off the waste > gate exhaust Well, that's not _quite_ what Farzaan's post said. Farzaan's post was that as the current rules allow any exhaust downstream of the turbo, one could legally build an exhaust system with separate pipes for the main turbine outlet and the wastegate outlet. Indeed, they're quite common in certain circles, and I believe that some Porches come with this stock. Now that you have a separate wastegate pipe, one could install a *second* wastegate in series with the stock wastegate. As the farthest-downstream wastegate "wins" one could now hang all the boost controllers they wanted to on the second wastegate and get the full effect, while leaving the stock wastegate and all its control devices intact. Note that this ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT PROVIDE "INFINITE" BOOST! The turbo is still subject to the laws of physics, and still has a flow limit, etc. All this does is provide a "legal" means of putting a boost controller on an SP car. If boost control devices were legal in SP, there would be no benefit at all to doing this. > I agree they should allow them. If they allow any engine management > system on NA cars then fair is fair. But the SCCA has never taken a very > fair stance with turbo cars. In fact, they outlawed them from club > racing a number of years ago. it looks like only a matter of time before > the same thing happens with Solo II... I think the SEB wants to do the Right Thing here. My understanding of why that crazy rule was proposed was because they want to have rules that are easily enforcable in Impound - cut and dried. It takes a little bit of work to understand turbo boost control systems, and it's not reasonable to expect every Impound worker to be a turbo expert. The goal of reducing complexity is worth striving for; it makes everyone's life much easier. However, the proposed don't-touch-the-exhaust rule not only doesn't work, it's not fair. I've worked very hard trying to come up with something that is simple, enforcable, and fair. My proposal seems to fit the bill, and that nobody has yet told me otherwise I find encouraging. Let's hope the SEB feels the same way. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:43:09 1999 From: "Michael V. Pieczarka" To: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:43:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe, (was GEEZ SW) Here is link to the review on the Versid Temperature Acquisition Module by Tangent Systems, Inc. which is the hardware used by BFG. http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/versid-review.html later mike From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:43:44 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com, autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:41:45 EDT Subject: Re: Farzaan's Wastegate (was: Why Smaller Pulley?) In a message dated 4/30/99 8:35:47 AM Central Daylight Time, dg50@daimlerchrysler.com writes: > > Now that you have a separate wastegate pipe, one could install a *second* > wastegate in series with the stock wastegate. As the farthest-downstream > wastegate "wins" one could now hang all the boost controllers they wanted to > on > the second wastegate and get the full effect, while leaving the stock > wastegate > and all its control devices intact. > > Note that this ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT PROVIDE "INFINITE" BOOST! The turbo is > still > subject to the laws of physics, and still has a flow limit, etc. All this > does > is provide a "legal" means of putting a boost controller on an SP car. > > If boost control devices were legal in SP, there would be no benefit at all > to > doing this. You might be naive enough to believe this is legal, but IMO it is a direct attempt to circumvent the intent of the SP rules and will be shot down in a protest. Of course it will be a moot point once the highly praised "no exhaust changes before the cat" turbo car rule goes into effect. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:48:53 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: , Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:48:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Legends cars in Solo II >Is anyone out there running a Legends car in Solo II? If so, I would like >to get in touch with them about running one myself. Thanks. ========================= Ooh, can you say DM car? An overweight and under powered one that must run on the BFG Radial TA street tires that they're spec'd for. Unless you want to do it just for fun (which it very well may be) I'd say stick with the DS Neon. Just my opinion, and I got a million of 'em. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 07:49:36 1999 From: Caius Tenche To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:46:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe, (was GEEZ SW) There's really no big secret to the hardware/software the the BFG engineers were using so I'm not sure why they were so hesitant to want to talk to you about it. Check out the http://www.versid.com site for full product information. \\ Caius Lindsay Wilson wrote: > Speaking of Palm Pilots, while I was at the BFG Spec. Racer Ford tire testing > at Roebling Road, the BFG engineers used Palm Pilots to record ALL the data > they take. They had the temp probe interfaced to the Palm Pilot and would > take the tire temps in a specified order. The temps were auto stored in the > Palm Pilot. The BFG engineer didn't seem to want to tell me much about the > system when I asked, but he did say that they used 'public' program which > one of their guys had modified. > > Besides taking the temps., they could also input tire pressures with notations, > and the drivers comments about the tires. > > All in all, way kool stuff. > > Lindsay > > ---------- > From: TeamZ3@aol.com[SMTP:TeamZ3@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:31 PM > To: Joehgn@aol.com; autox@autox.team.net > Cc: bshort@AFSinc.com > Subject: Re: GEEZ software and G-cube > > I'd love to tell you how it works, but since I'm still waiting patiently for > the Palm Pilot software..... > > Hi Byron :-) > > M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 08:38:30 1999 From: Walter Fooshee To: "autox@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:36:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe, (was GEEZ SW) They might have been hesitant because they have work to do, and spending their hours giving the same story over and over to the great unwashed masses puts them a little behind schedule. I know that's my excuse when people want to know how my stuff works. Walter Fooshee Dixie Region probe GT Caius Tenche wrote: > > There's really no big secret to the hardware/software the the BFG engineers were > using so I'm not sure why they were so hesitant to want to talk to you about it. > > Check out the http://www.versid.com site for full product information. > > \\ Caius > > Lindsay Wilson wrote: > > > Speaking of Palm Pilots, while I was at the BFG Spec. Racer Ford tire testing > > at Roebling Road, the BFG engineers used Palm Pilots to record ALL the data > > they take. They had the temp probe interfaced to the Palm Pilot and would > > take the tire temps in a specified order. The temps were auto stored in the > > Palm Pilot. The BFG engineer didn't seem to want to tell me much about the > > system when I asked, but he did say that they used 'public' program which > > one of their guys had modified. > > > > Besides taking the temps., they could also input tire pressures with notations, > > and the drivers comments about the tires. > > > > All in all, way kool stuff. > > > > Lindsay > > > > ---------- > > From: TeamZ3@aol.com[SMTP:TeamZ3@aol.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:31 PM > > To: Joehgn@aol.com; autox@autox.team.net > > Cc: bshort@AFSinc.com > > Subject: Re: GEEZ software and G-cube > > > > I'd love to tell you how it works, but since I'm still waiting patiently for > > the Palm Pilot software..... > > > > Hi Byron :-) > > > > M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 08:43:02 1999 From: Paul Foster To: lwilson1@ford.com, "team.net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:41:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe, (was GEEZ SW) <<>> Speaking of huge controversies, what was the result of the testing? Paul Foster From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 09:08:48 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: TeamZ3@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:06:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Farzaan's Wastegate (was: Why Smaller Pulley?) > DG wrote: >> All this does is provide a "legal" means of putting a boost >> controller on an SP car. > You might be naive enough to believe this is legal, but IMO it is a > direct attempt to circumvent the intent of the SP rules and will be > shot down in a protest. Notice the quotes around the word "legal" Mark. For the record, I had someone ask me what I thought of the idea a few months ago (he had come up with the concept independantly of Farzaan) and I told him that while it was by the letter of the rules "legal" it was obviously an attempt to end-run another rule, and certainly counter to the spirit of the rules in general - and I was rather emphatic that he not do this. > Of course it will be a moot point once the highly praised "no > exhaust changes before the cat" turbo car rule goes into effect. "Highly praised"? Hardly. I understand that the SEB was bombarded with complaints that the rule was unfair and unfounded. I would be very suprised if the rule goes through after all the negative feedback they recieved. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 09:14:04 1999 From: Kevin Wenzel To: "team.net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Fear and loathing in SRF was Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Paul Foster wrote: > Speaking of huge controversies, what was the result of the testing? http://www.specracer.com/news.html has the results. For popular perspective, also see the discussion area on the same site: http://www.specracer.com/discus/board.html I have absolutely no input on the whole G-Force wear issue, but I can say that the SRF tire is as bad as it sounds. Never thought I'd be pining for A008s... OTOH, the Hoosiers I use on the DSP car last quite some time (if I don't flat-spot them). Kevin Y. Wenzel kwenzel@privateI.com Director of Network Operations, privateI, LLC http://www.privateI.com/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 09:16:53 1999 From: CLAY MCLENDON To: autox :; Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:15:12 -0400 Subject: Turbo cars in Emod (Was smaller pulley) I too have a boost controller that bumps me all the way into mod from CSP. It is a 323GTX. Obviously winning my class is not a major priority, so I run in whatever class they put me in and compare my times to who I want to beat. Considering I am on street tires and from a small region, I usually stay in CSP. Many times I am the only car that isn't a purpose built autocrosser. Although I am not competitive, I have a great time and have been doing it this way for years. I spend a whole lot more time driving on the street, so that is what I have my car set up for. Now that I have a little extra money, I plan on building a "competitive" autocrosser so watch out you streeet prepared folks. God Bless, clay From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 09:24:56 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: khschenk@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:17:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Legends cars in Solo II Lynn and Brett Egen, and Jim McKamey drove a couple at last year's nationals in Topeka. The Egens sell them. Call (916) 722-5023 (hope the # is current) in Citrus Heights, Calif. They know how to set the little cars up for Solo 2 as well as road racing. --Pat Kelly khschenk@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG wrote: > Is anyone out there running a Legends car in Solo II? If so, I would like > to get in touch with them about running one myself. Thanks. > > Kurt Schenk > 1995 DS Neon ACR > khschenk@hslc.org From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 09:26:06 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:18:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Legends cars in Solo II First I want to correct what I said on my previous post. What the Egens ran were Baby Grands...I get the two cross-referenced. I recall they ran in D Prepared, non-scored in finishing posiitons, but more as demo runs. --Pat Kelly Eric Linnhoff wrote: > >Is anyone out there running a Legends car in Solo II? If so, I would > like > >to get in touch with them about running one myself. Thanks. > ========================= > Ooh, can you say DM car? An overweight and under powered one that must > run on the BFG Radial TA street tires that they're spec'd for. > > Unless you want to do it just for fun (which it very well may be) I'd > say stick with the DS Neon. > > Just my opinion, and I got a million of 'em. ;^) > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > I'm your vehicle baby > I'll Take you anywhere you want to go > I'm your vehicle woman > By now I'm sure you know > That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), > I want to, got to have your child > Great God in heaven you know I love you > ======================== > "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 09:57:18 1999 From: "Jamie Sculerati" To: "Kevin Wenzel" , "team.net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:06:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Fear and loathing in SRF was Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Wenzel Never thought I'd be pining for A008s... In that case, I have four you're welcome to -- you can just see where the "tread" used to be.... Jamie '92 Prelude Si (new shoes for baby this year) Speed Demon Racing http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 10:10:29 1999 From: Scott & Glenda Meyers To: "Team.Net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:14:33 -0700 Subject: G Force Concerns - Where and How to share? I read with great interest the "Fear and Loathing in SRF" info, and am wondering what the formal procedure is for sharing with BFG concerns about the G Force in a Solo 2 setting. Do we have to write a letter, or is there e-mail access? Surely they must care, as I think I speak for many when I say I am concerned about the demonstrated short life and flat-spotting characteristic. These are VERY fragile tires, and are out of my budget until things change. Does BFG even acknowledge that there is a problem? Has anyone told them? Sadly, I have been 'with' BFG (unsponsored, but they were my tire of choice) for many years (well over twelve), and have bought many sets (well over sixteen). While I know I am not the "Big Fish in the Pond", is there anyone listening or caring out there as to the effect this is having on the little guys? Having run MANY sets of R-1's I do know that the G Forces are different, and not in a positive way. It is not my imagination. So, how to proceed? Thanks for any shared advice. Scott Meyers From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 10:28:10 1999 From: Kevin Wenzel To: "team.net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: Fear and loathing in SRF was Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Jamie Sculerati wrote: > In that case, I have four you're welcome to -- you can just see where the > "tread" used to be.... I've got tons of usable tires from last year (stamped spec A008s, that is) - I just can't use them legally in SRF (except when I autocross the thing). Kevin Y. Wenzel kwenzel@privateI.com Director of Network Operations, privateI, LLC http://www.privateI.com/ From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 11:23:53 1999 From: "Hank Wallace" To: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:22:21 -0400 Subject: Alignment on a '93 MR2 Anyone have better-than-stock alignment specs for a '93? I need to get rid of some of the push and gain some higher speed stability. Hank From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 11:24:43 1999 From: Chris Sims To: Kevin Wenzel Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A008s was Re: Fear and loathing in SRF was Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Kevin Wenzel wrote: > > I've got tons of usable tires from last year (stamped spec A008s, that is) - > I just can't use them legally in SRF (except when I autocross the thing). Sorry if this is an old subject, but I'm new. What's the deal with A008s? Are they a good autocross tire or no? Could they actually be used on the street? While I'm asking questions. Ever heard of the Yoko S306? My car has a set of these and I have no idea what they are (well I know that they are tires). Thanks Chris ********************************************************************** * * * Chris Sims * * http://www.simshome.com * * * ********************************************************************** From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 11:29:47 1999 From: "Phillip S. Osborne" To: , Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:58:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Peru Solo Just spent about 8 days or so in Peru, at the new Best Western. Decent place. I understand the smaller place across the street is pretty good also. Other than that, motels in the area are scarce. You may have to go to KoKomo if you havn't already made reservations. Kokomo is only 15 miles or so from Grissom... Phil O. -----Original Message----- From: SpeedPak@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:09 AM Subject: Peru Solo >Hey everyone in Autox land Hope everyone's doing good..got a quick question >for ya: > >Anyone Have any good/bad expiriences with hotels in the area of the ProSolo >at Peru? Itll be my first time out so any input will help. > >Faisal Ahmad >ITR 98-0062 >#62 GS > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 11:46:14 1999 From: TeamZ3@aol.com To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:44:05 EDT Subject: Re: Peru hotels Stayed in the Hampton in Kokomo last year. Pricy @ $70/night, but very nice, good breakfast. Unfortunately already sold out for coming Peru Pro weekend. I got a double bed room at Marriott Courtyard in Kokomo for $59/night. I believe Comfort Suites also still has rooms available. Some of the other hotels in Kokomo are old, I believe Ramada Inn was one of them. M Sipe From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 12:45:05 1999 From: Carl Couric To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:43:37 -0400 Subject: ER event in West Palm Beach on May 8th and May 9th I am getting MANY requests (which is a good thing) about the Equipe Rapide event for May 8th and 9th. Here are the http links for everyone to look at: http://carlc.bocanet.com/99ersched.html here are the 2 flyers for the Event: http://carlc.bocanet.com/er990508.jpg http://carlc.bocanet.com/er990509.jpg the 2 flyers should really answer the What/Where/When questions... I even compressed scanned them. After you look that over, then send me your questions... Thanks! Carl --- Home Page of --- - Equipe Rapide Sports Car Club (ER) in West Palm Beach/Ft. Lauderdale - South Florida Sports Car Assoc. (SFSCA) in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale http://carlc.bocanet.com Why do I live in Florida? So I can race all year long! *** South Park Racing *** Oh my God! You've killed a CONE... You B*st*rd! From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 12:54:56 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:48:57 -0500 Subject: Muskogee event hotel? I sent my entry form for the first and second Solotime Divisional events today. I noticed that the event hotel for Muskogee was the Muskogee inn. Has anybody stayed there before? Is it worth a %$@#$& or should I look for sme place else. I always have a difficult time sleeping in hotel rooms as it is and a bad hotel makes it worse. One of my friends told me the first rule of traveling is never stay at a hotel named after the city its in. Its worked so far. Mike B. TLS#1 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 13:08:59 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Mike Bultemeier" , Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:08:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Muskogee event hotel? >I sent my entry form for the first and second Solotime Divisional events >today. >I noticed that the event hotel for Muskogee was the Muskogee inn. Has >anybody >stayed there before? Is it worth a %$@#$& or should I look for sme place >else. >I always have a difficult time sleeping in hotel rooms as it is and a >bad hotel makes >it worse. One of my friends told me the first rule of traveling is never >stay at a hotel >named after the city its in. Its worked so far. =========================== Damn primadonna mod drivers. "There's not enough pressure in the shower. My blankets have little fuzz balls all over them. My pillow's too flat. I don't have HBO in my room. There's no remote control. There's no pool. Where's the free breakfast? Oww, there's a pea under my mattress." Waa, waa, waa. You're breakin' my heart. ;^) See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 13:11:25 1999 From: Scott Mitchell To: "team.net" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 99 15:12:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Alignment Mark Sirota replied: >Assuming a car with reasonable ackerman (something close to 100%), then >adding static toe-out causes the inside front tire to turn too far. >This creates some drag around the inside front tire, which causes the >car to want to rotate around the inside front tire -- hence, quicker >turn in. There is another effect too. The inside tire turns further faster _before_ the weight transfers. So, that tire grabs more on turn in. It is easy to think of ackerman as dynamic toe. The toe of the front tires increases as the wheel turns toward lock. IMHO, running a lot of static toe out is a hack for not having sufficient ackerman (sufficient for autocross is probably over 100%). Of course when the rules say you can't modify the suspension geometry, it is a hack you've gotta deal with. Scott Mitchell 70 Ropa S2 "moving roll centres suck. Although duct tape works fine, we found that a hose clamp works even better. Also, the design judges commented that it looked neater, and could be adjusted more easily." - Greg Joughin From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 13:16:46 1999 From: Jeff Blankenship To: sojim@home.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:15:13 CDT Subject: Re: finishing order > Disagree. Last in class is DFL; DNS is for those who don't show....... > > "Phillip S. Osborne" wrote: > > > > Subject: finishing order > > > > Nope, you came in second. DFL is reserved for all those who don't > > bother to show..... > > > > Phil O. > > > > >P.S. If you're second place in a class of two, are you still DFL? > > >If so, chalk one more up for Team DFL! > -- > Jim Ourand Okay, I'll buy this. By the way, I did manage a second and a first place finish in the two-day regional event last weekend, so my season already has all the bases covered. Yay! I guess my point was, it would be a more respectable DFL if more than one person had beat me, instead of a mere DFL by default. But as founder, and so far only admitted driver of Team DFL, I wanted to make sure I had officially maintained my tradition of pooching out big-time at least once a season. Nothing like getting it done early! Phew! -- Jeffrey D. Blankenship Senior Technical Consultant jblanken@itds.com ITDS - TRIS neon enthusiast #478 Champaign, IL, USA From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 13:42:08 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: , Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:37:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Farzaan's Wastegate (was: Why Smaller Pulley?) > I told him that >while it was by the letter of the rules "legal" it was obviously an It's obvioulsy *not* legal, as I pointed out in a recent and previous email, at least in Street Prepared. The relevant rule states both "no modifications to the wastegate" -- this is obviously a modification to the wastegate -- and "no modifications to the boost controls" -- and this is equally a modification to the boost controls. On my turboford, the wastegate itself (not the controller) is in a separate cast housing that is bolted to the turbine outlet. As I understand the SP rules, I can port the exhaust manifold, I cannot modify the turbo itself including porting except for allowable update/backdate (bad idea for an 86 SVO like mine), I cannot modify the wastegate (so the housing remains untouched in my case) and from there out to the exhaust tip I can do anything I want within the confines of other rules (noise, outlet positioning relative to the driver, etc). BTW, I'm one of those who wrote to the SEB asking that they leave the current rule (above) in place for turbo and n/a cars. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 14:16:12 1999 From: Mike Bultemeier To: Eric Linnhoff Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:10:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Muskogee event hotel? You all gotta understand the Cavedweller(Linnhoff) is true "Knuckle dragger". He's just not happy unless theres lots of dripping water and stalagmites around. Mike B. TLS#1 Eric Linnhoff wrote: > >I sent my entry form for the first and second Solotime Divisional > events > >today. > >I noticed that the event hotel for Muskogee was the Muskogee inn. Has > >anybody > >stayed there before? Is it worth a %$@#$& or should I look for sme > place > >else. > >I always have a difficult time sleeping in hotel rooms as it is and a > >bad hotel makes > >it worse. One of my friends told me the first rule of traveling is > never > >stay at a hotel > >named after the city its in. Its worked so far. > =========================== > Damn primadonna mod drivers. "There's not enough pressure in the > shower. My blankets have little fuzz balls all over them. My pillow's > too flat. I don't have HBO in my room. There's no remote control. > There's no pool. Where's the free breakfast? Oww, there's a pea under > my mattress." > > Waa, waa, waa. You're breakin' my heart. ;^) > > See you on course. > > Eric Linnhoff in KC > #69DS TLS #13 > '98 Neon R/T > > > I'm your vehicle baby > I'll Take you anywhere you want to go > I'm your vehicle woman > By now I'm sure you know > That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), > I want to, got to have your child > Great God in heaven you know I love you > ======================== > "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 14:23:20 1999 From: "Eric Linnhoff" To: "Mike Bultemeier" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:23:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Muskogee event hotel? >You all gotta understand the Cavedweller(Linnhoff) is true "Knuckle >dragger". >He's just not happy unless theres lots of dripping water and stalagmites >around. > >Mike B. TLS#1 ====================== Ugg. What he mean? Hulk brain hurt when Hulk think. See you on course. Eric Linnhoff in KC #69DS TLS #13 '98 Neon R/T I'm your vehicle baby I'll Take you anywhere you want to go I'm your vehicle woman By now I'm sure you know That I Love you (love ya), I Need you (need ya), I want to, got to have your child Great God in heaven you know I love you ======================== "Vehicle" by The Ides of March From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 14:42:02 1999 From: "Brian Goodwin" To: "autocross list" , "Chris Sims" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:37:14 -0700 Subject: Re: A008s was Re: Fear and loathing in SRF was Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe I ran 008s on the street on my CSP Miata for a long time. They work reasonably well as a street tire as long as it is not raining. Lots of fun on the freeway circular onramps! Brian Goodwin Good-Win Racing Supply http://www.good-win-racing.com -----Original Message----- From: Chris Sims To: Kevin Wenzel Cc: team.net Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 10:23 AM Subject: A008s was Re: Fear and loathing in SRF was Re: Palm Pilot as temp probe >On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Kevin Wenzel wrote: > >> >> I've got tons of usable tires from last year (stamped spec A008s, that is) - >> I just can't use them legally in SRF (except when I autocross the thing). > >Sorry if this is an old subject, but I'm new. >What's the deal with A008s? Are they a good autocross tire or no? >Could they actually be used on the street? > >While I'm asking questions. Ever heard of the Yoko S306? >My car has a set of these and I have no idea what they are (well I know >that they are tires). > >Thanks > > Chris > > ********************************************************************** > * * > * Chris Sims * > * http://www.simshome.com * > * * > ********************************************************************** > > From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 15:11:56 1999 From: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com To: "richard nichols" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:10:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Farzaan's Wastegate (was: Why Smaller Pulley?) > DG wrote: >> I told him that >>while it was by the letter of the rules "legal" it was obviously an > It's obvioulsy *not* legal, as I pointed out in a recent and > previous email, at least in Street Prepared. > The relevant rule states both "no modifications to the wastegate" -- > this is obviously a modification to the wastegate No, it's not - the Stock wastegate would be left intact and untouched. > and this is equally a modification to the boost controls. No, it's not - the Stock boost controls would be intact and untouched. Look at it this way |Stock Cntls| |"New" Cntls| --------- | | ----------------|Turbo |==|Stock W/G|==|"New" W/G|=== Atmosphere Exhaust manifold| | ----------------| |----------------------------- Atmosphere |_________|---------Tailpipe------------ - The Stock wastegate is left alone - The Stock boost controls are left alone - The "new" wastegate and their associated controls are part of the "exhaust system" and are thus open - and legal Yeah, it's a weasel-featured attempt to end-run the intent of the rules, and it's obviously playing stupid semantic games and I wouldn't expect to get it through Impound more than once, but the way I read the rules it's technically legal. Note however that _I_ won't be doing this, that I have stopped at least one person's "attempt" (though it was probably just idle talk in the first place) to do this, and if it showed up in Impound I'd be amongst the protestors! **I DON"T ADVOCATE THIS THING, OK?** (Incidently, I don't think Farzaan ever intended it as anything other than a thought experiment either. No turbo guy is stupid enough to think they could get away with this for long.) But even if I DID think it was A Good Thing and do this to my car, it is NOT a way to make "infinite boost"! Even weasels cannot break the laws of physics. Every turbocharger ever made or that will ever be made is fundimentally limited in the amount of air it can flow, and thus how much power can be made - and OEM street-car turbos have low flow limits as a general rule. DG From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 18:40:32 1999 From: rohns@doitnow.com (Jim & Marilyn Rohn) To: autox@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:39:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: Vintage Pro Solo stuff I was shredding a bunch of old (mid 80's) checks and found these dated 1984 and 1985 To: Pro solo For: License Amount: $15 Next was for an event entry, $35 Next was 87 and $35 events (Milw) then in 1989 the license was $30, event $40 (for the San diego & Las Vegas events. Later in the year the checks are for $75 (Pittsburg, SF, Denver) hmmmm .... Then the 1990 License went up to $60 .... Also got paid from BFG when they were paying for the *highest finisher* on their tires ... Interesting stuff Jim Rohn Beater Racing glad I still have some good R-1's From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 18:51:24 1999 From: Randy Chase To: autocross Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:52:28 -0700 Subject: Atwater ProSolo Clear I-5....I am leaving now. Not sure what else can go wrong on the way up...but I have a feeling I am going to find out. Hope i get there before 2:00am. 8( Like with Toyos I needed another excuse. Randy Chase From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 19:02:59 1999 From: "richard nichols" To: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:58:45 -0700 Subject: Re: wasting gates >Yeah, it's a weasel-featured attempt to end-run the intent of the rules, and >it's obviously playing stupid semantic games and I wouldn't >expect to get it through Impound more than once, but the way I read the rules it's technically legal. Geez, we've disagreed on a few things in the past, but I see your point on this one. >But even if I DID think it was A Good Thing and do this to my car, it is NOT a >way to make "infinite boost"! Even weasels cannot break the laws of physics. >Every turbocharger ever made or that will ever be made is fundimentally limited >in the amount of air it can flow, and thus how much power can be made - and OEM >street-car turbos have low flow limits as a general rule. Yes, but. But the flow limits and pressure ratio limits of at least some of the turbofords is high enough to make a *lot* of power within the other limits of Street Prepared rules, if there were no rule-based boost limit. IOW, if I could run unlimited boost (IOW, limited only by the mechanical limits of the engine and turbo, but not by the rules) the stock T3 in 60 trim is capable of putting out ~26 psi gauge while staying in the 70 compressor efficiency range, which is respectable efficiency. The stock SVO setting is ~15psi. Flow @ 5000 rpm @ this PR is ~30#/min and/or ~350cfm, which is the limit of the 60 trim compressor at 70% adiabatic efficiency. At this point, assuming the rpm limits of the turbo itself haven't been exceeded (it's the Mitsu turbos on the TurboCoupes that detonate) I've reached over 325hp, conservatively, in a 2900# car, and I can legally pare that weight some more while adding lots of chassis stiffness with no net weight gain. And I'm not even using gumball tires yet and allowable camber changes they need. Now, because FI is unlimited in SP, I've dropped in a bigger VAF, TB, and injectors to cope with all this increased flow and fuel requirement. Chipping that deals with fuel maps is also allowed in SP (the SVO does not control boost levels through its computer), including additional enrichment to fight detonation. And because I can run any air-to-air intercooler (I guess air-to-water is allowed now, too, for some reason,what's the deal with *that*?) that's cooled by atmospheric air, I can suck the additional heat out of my charge air by running a remote-mounted IC that's roughly twice the width of the TC IC. Drops in below my radiator. IC efficiency is up because it's no longer mounted above my exhaust manifold as it was in stock form. And because I can run any exhaust system at present, that 325+ hp figure is VERY conservative. Even if I must run to the stock cat, I can still pick up some flow by switching to a single 3" or so exhaust after the cat. In SP, I'm only limited by noise levels as to the muffler I run, so I make up for any cat restrictions there. Now do you want to play with me? Will it work with the stock turbo? I can find out, if anyone really cares to know. BTW, the SVO has a dual position boost switch that is cockpit-controlled. So in the above example, I can switch to a lower boost if it might be advantageous. And I'll grant you that it's questionable if an AiResearch T3 will stay together at the 150,000 rpm the turbo shaft is doing at a 2.8PR, but it's pretty likely -- it's doing 130,000 rpm at a 2.0PR. For my car it's moot, which was part of my point -- the SVO in SP legal trim *even under the proposed new rule* can make more power than I can use in autoxing. But is it *right* to impose an exhaust limitation on turbocars that aren't imposed on supercharged or n/a cars? No to that. Richard Nichols rnichol1@san.rr.com 86 Mustang SVO TII 1C: ESP/FSP/? 72 Pinto Sedan 2.0 3J - Original Owner, Restored On display at the San Diego Automotive Museum, June 99 through January 00 From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 19:11:39 1999 From: Kevin Brown To: Loren Williams Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:08:54 -0500 Subject: Re: SOLO 1 - Closed vs Open ars I rolled a '73 MG Midget 3 times after going over a 50-foot bank in a sudden rain storm (the top was still down -- that's how sudden it was!) and it was amazing how well the windshield pillars held up! I never even had a headache, but I did get a few stitches! Kevin Brown AP '74 TR6 Odessa, MO Loren Williams wrote: > Phil Ethier wrote: > > > I have rolled SAAB 96 cars in ice races on three occasions. Once was the > > second occasion for the same car, and it was dandy. > > Had a neighbor when I was in high school who drove a '73 Datsun B210. > That car was rolled twice, on two separate occasions, on the same curve, > by the same driver, in the same conditions (rain). A few minutes with a > hammer and a new windshield was the only repair in either case. I still > haven't convinced this guy to invest in a decent set of tires. > > I rolled a Spitfire once... it behaved a little more like the Manta you > described. Thankfully, only one of the A-pillars folded! > > -- > Loren Williams | Homepage - http://www2.southwind.net/~lsw > '94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 21:26:07 1999 From: Eric Moon To: autox@autox.team.net, autox@earthlink.net, phax@eng.kns.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:20:29 -0400 Subject: Mother's Day Special Spend Mother's Day dodging cones!!!! Sunday, May 9th Harrisburg State Farm Show Complex more info at our web page: www.scca-susq.com Eric Moon '92 Miata SOLO II CSP e-mail: info@scca-susq.com home: (717) 221-8828 mobile: (717) 329-7074 Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com From autox-owner@autox.team.net Fri Apr 30 21:42:28 1999 From: Pat Kelly To: Eric Moon Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:35:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Mother's Day Special Ya gonna let mothers enter free? --Pat Kelly Eric Moon wrote: > Spend Mother's Day dodging cones!!!! > > Sunday, May 9th > Harrisburg State Farm Show Complex > > more info at our web page: www.scca-susq.com > > Eric Moon > '92 Miata SOLO II CSP > e-mail: info@scca-susq.com > home: (717) 221-8828 > mobile: (717) 329-7074 > > Appalachian Sports Car Club www.scca-susq.com