Subject: Re: [6pack] [TR] Re-installing Front Suspension Springs

From: DAVE HOGYE <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 18:27:02 -0700 (PDT)

That's terrible condition for any poly or rubber bushing in such a short time.  Complete failure.  I've taken many TR suspensions apart and never saw even a 60+ year old original factory bushing in that condition. Just yesterday I completely disassembled an early TR4 suspension from a badly bent frame and what I'm sure where the original bushings didn't look as bad.  The durometer of those poly bushing must be way too soft.  I wouldn't use those again.  I'd send those photos to the manufacturer and supplier.  Terrible.
I too made my own spring compressor similar to the Moss tool. 
Dave H.
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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 12:08:49 +0000 (UTC)

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 I've found that conventional hardware store all thread (grade 2) will last=
 long enough to change out one set of springs.=C2=A0 Even with lubrication =
the thread wears and gets galled.=C2=A0 I went one better and bought some 1=
/2 inch ACME thread rod and nuts from McMaster-Carr.=C2=A0 Of course, ACME =
thread nuts won't jam since that effect counts on the angle of the thread a=
nd ACME has no angle, the threads are square-cut.=C2=A0 So I drilled the nu=
t and rod at one end and I use a locking pin to keep the nut on the bottom =
in place throughout the operation.
My tool has been used for many removal/installs and is still good as new.=
=C2=A0=20

On the other hand, hardware store threaded rod is available today and will =
work for one operation and is quick and convenient in acquisition.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Barnes <[email-masked]>
To: Rochlin Robert <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Sent: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 7:32 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Re-installing Front Suspension Springs

When removing or installing the front springs, I've had good luck with a le=
ngth of 1/2" threaded rod and a series of washers, plates, and nuts. Have a=
 look at the tool illustrated in the Haynes or Bentley manuals. The jack me=
thod won't work because the spring needs to be under load when installed, m=
ore load that the weight of the car.
--Phil Barnes ('71 TR6 since 1977)
On Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 6:03 PM Rochlin Robert <[email-masked]> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m in the last stages of reassembling =
the front suspension after replacing all the bushings.=C2=A0 I originally d=
id the job about 6 years ago and can=E2=80=99t remember how I reinstalled t=
he springs, but I don=E2=80=99t recall it being particularly difficult.=C2=
=A0 This time through, I just can=E2=80=99t get the springs back in.=C2=A0 =
I got a spring compressor loaner from AutoZone and was able to install one =
spring, but when I went to remove the spring compressor through the bottom =
of the spring pan it was about 1/8 of an inch too wide to remove, so back t=
o the drawingboard...=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve looked at Bentley and Hayes manual=
s, but their method of putting the spring back is put the spring pan and ja=
ck it up into position=C2=A0 doesn=E2=80=99t come close to lining the sprin=
g pan to the lower wishbone holes. Any advice appreciated.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Below are the bushings I removed.=C2=A0 They ab=
out 6 to 7 years old with about 20,000 miles and, as you can see, they are =
toast. The swing arm bushings were worse. I bought them on a recommendation=
 from a TR guy from an outfit in the UK called Polybush.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Best,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bob

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">I've found that conventional hardware store all thre=
ad (grade 2) will last long enough to change out one set of springs.&nbsp; =
Even with lubrication the thread wears and gets galled.&nbsp; I went one be=
tter and bought some 1/2 inch ACME thread rod and nuts from McMaster-Carr.&=
nbsp; Of course, ACME thread nuts won't jam since that effect counts on the=
 angle of the thread and ACME has no angle, the threads are square-cut.&nbs=
p; So I drilled the nut and rod at one end and I use a locking pin to keep =
the nut on the bottom in place throughout the operation.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">My tool has been used for many removal/installs and i=
s still good as new.&nbsp; <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">On the other hand, hardware store threaded rod is ava=
ilable today and will work for one operation and is quick and convenient in=
 acquisition.<br>
</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div><font size=3D"4">Dave <br>
</font></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><=
br>
</span></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Philip Barnes &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Rochlin Robert &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]<br>
Sent: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 7:32 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Re-installing Front Suspension Springs<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv3573614689">
<div>When removing or installing the front springs, I've had good luck with=
 a length of 1/2" threaded rod and a series of washers, plates, and nuts. H=
ave a look at the tool illustrated in the Haynes or Bentley manuals. The ja=
ck method won't work because the spring needs to be under load when install=
ed, more load that the weight of the car.
<div><br>
</div>

<div>--Phil Barnes ('71 TR6 since 1977)</div>
</div>
<br>

<div class=3D"yiv3573614689gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"yiv3573614689gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 6:=
03 PM Rochlin Robert &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:rrochlin@com=
cast.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex;" class=3D"yiv3573614689gmail_quote">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I=
=E2=80=99m in the last stages of reassembling the front suspension after re=
placing all the bushings.&nbsp; I originally did the job about 6 years ago =
and can=E2=80=99t remember how I reinstalled the springs, but I don=E2=80=
=99t recall it being particularly difficult.&nbsp; This time through, I jus=
t can=E2=80=99t get the springs back in.&nbsp; I got a spring compressor lo=
aner from AutoZone and was able to install one spring, but when I went to r=
emove the spring compressor through the bottom of the spring pan it was abo=
ut 1/8 of an inch too wide to remove, so back to the drawingboard...&nbsp; =
I=E2=80=99ve looked at Bentley and Hayes manuals, but their method of putti=
ng the spring back is put the spring pan and jack it up into position&nbsp;=
 doesn=E2=80=99t come close to lining the spring pan to the lower wishbone =
holes. Any advice appreciated.<br>

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Below are the bushings I removed.&nbsp; They ab=
out 6 to 7 years old with about 20,000 miles and, as you can see, they are =
toast. The swing arm bushings were worse. I bought them on a recommendation=
 from a TR guy from an outfit in the UK called Polybush.<br>

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Best,<br>

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Bob<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

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[email-masked]

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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 18:03:43 +0000 (UTC)

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Sent from AOL on Android
On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 9:23, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter<deruiterville@hotm=
ail.com> wrote:Except with the added caution that when hardware threaded ro=
d galls, it can lock the nut and really mess up the whole ability to remove=
 the rod. And don't ask me how I know that..
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> on behalf of DAVID MASSEY =
<[email-masked]>Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 7:08 AMTo: triumphs@autox=
.team.net <[email-masked]>; [email-masked] <[email-masked]=
.net>Subject: Re: [TR] Re-installing Front Suspension Springs=C2=A0I've fou=
nd that conventional hardware store all thread (grade 2) will last long eno=
ugh to change out one set of springs. Even with lubrication the thread wear=
s and gets galled. I went one better and bought some 1/2 inch ACME thread r=
od and nuts from McMaster-Carr. Of course, ACME thread nuts won't jam since=
 that effect counts on the angle of the thread and ACME has no angle, the t=
hreads are square-cut. So I drilled the nut and rod at one end and I use a =
locking pin to keep the nut on the bottom in place throughout the operation=
.
My tool has been used for many removal/installs and is still good as new.=
=C2=A0
On the other hand, hardware store threaded rod is available today and will =
work for one operation and is quick and convenient in acquisition.
Dave
Even with a generous application of grease it will gall.

 =20

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<blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 20px 0;"><div style=3D"padding: 10px 0 0 2=
0px; margin: 10px 0 0 0; border-left: 1px solid #6D00F6;"><div id=3D"yiv807=
0738849"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div id=3D"yiv8070738849yqtfd80193" class=3D"yiv8=
070738849yqt5619227897"><div><div style=3D"font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans=
-serif;color:black;"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Sent from AOL on An=
droid</div><div><br></div><div>On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 9:23, Randy and Vale=
rie DeRuiter</div><div>&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><div>E=
xcept with the added caution that when hardware threaded rod galls, it can =
lock the nut and really mess up the whole ability to remove the rod. And do=
n't ask me how I know that..</div><div><br></div><div>From: Triumphs &lt;tr=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of DAVID MASSEY &lt;dave1massey=
@cs.com&gt;</div><div>Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 7:08 AM</div><div>To: t=
[email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]=
t &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</div><div>Subject: Re: [TR] Re-installing Fr=
ont Suspension Springs</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I've found that conventio=
nal hardware store all thread (grade 2) will last long enough to change out=
 one set of springs. Even with lubrication the thread wears and gets galled=
. I went one better and bought some 1/2 inch ACME thread rod and nuts from =
McMaster-Carr. Of course, ACME thread nuts won't jam since that effect coun=
ts on the angle of the thread and ACME has no angle, the threads are square=
-cut. So I drilled the nut and rod at one end and I use a locking pin to ke=
ep the nut on the bottom in place throughout the operation.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>My tool has been used for many removal/installs and is still good=
 as new.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, hardware store t=
hreaded rod is available today and will work for one operation and is quick=
 and convenient in acquisition.</div><div><br></div><div>Dave</div><div><br=
></div><div>Even with a generous application of grease it will gall.</div><=
div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><=
div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><=
div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div> </div> </blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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From: Rochlin Robert <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 09:24:35 -0400

Thanks to everyone for their input on my reinstalling the front springs into my TR6. I appreciate your taking the time to share your expertise. 
	I did manage to reinstall the springs yesterday with a small modification to the AutoZone spring compressor.  I’m amazed that my first go around in installing the springs was so uneventful that I had no recollection of any difficulty.  I did find the steel rod, nuts and plate that I apparently used to compress the springs last time, but as I compressed the spring I could see that I was headed for trouble.  The springs need to be compressed far more than I had the confidence to use that rig on.  Dave and Randy correctly pointed out that hardware threaded rod is not suitable for spring compression.  To get the springs compressed enough to slip into the spring pan requires a lot of compression force and, as was pointed out, putting something under that much compression force can be dangerous.
	I am going to send the photos I posted to the list to Polybush, but I’m not hopeful of much of a response. My guess is that I’m not the only one who the only one who has had such a catastrophic failure of their bushes and they may be playing big time defense and denial. 
	Lastly, best wishes to Mark and team.net.  We all owe you a debt of gratitude for helping us to keep our cars on the road by facilitating sage lister advice.
	Best,
	Bob
	“72 TR6

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