> ----------
> From: jonmac[SMTP:jonmac@ndirect.co.uk]
> Reply To: jonmac
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 1998 5:38 PM
> To: Dave Massey
> Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: Sir John Black, Sir William Lyons, Triumph name
> transfer etc
>
Not that it would matter, but SS meant SturmStaffel in that sense.
Gernot
> I was aware of SS meaning Swallow Sidecar. It also had unfortunate
> links
> with another far more sinister organisation which shared its initials
> -
> Staat Sicherheitspolizei? It was primarily because of this, that
> William
> Lyons (long before being dubbed by His Majesty) undertook a fairly
> sudden
> name change when he found out what the other SS were up to.
>
> ----------
> From: Dave Massey <105671.471@compuserve.com>
> To: INTERNET:jonmac@ndirect.co.uk; TR List <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Sir John Black, Sir William Lyons, Triumph name transfer etc
> Date: 14 March 1998 16:03
>
> There I go again, talking out my bum. Its been years since I read
> this and
> some of the
> details are a bit vague. The main point I wanted to make is that Sir
> John
> Black tried to
> buy Morgan and after being rebuffed he bought the rights to Triumph.
> And
> the rest is ,
> as they say, history.
>
> Dave
>
> P.S. Did you know the SS stands for Swallow Sidecar?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snip <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Dave
> If I might interject on your recent thread about the Standard Motor
> Company
> interface with Jaguar - then SS Cars? While I wouldn't challenge you
> on the
> source document you recommended for reading, perhaps I could attempt
> to
> straighten out what might possibly become mis-information over a
> period of
> time.
> 1. Sir John Black never owned the Standard Motor Company. The original
> owner and founder before Black's time was a man called Reginald
> Maudslay.
> It was through him that the company became known as STANDARD because
> he
> wanted to make cars to the highest possible standard. Unfortunately,
> the
> word Standard has different connotations in different parts of the
> world -
> and that is why true Standard Cars when sold in North America (the
> Eight,
> Ten and Pennant) were more usually known as Triumphs, when in fact
> they
> were Standards through and through. Black, a former Army Captain and a
> qualified lawyer was brought in by the Main Board before the war to do
> what
> he could to steer the company out of bankruptcy. He succeeded and my
> own
> father was a very close friend and colleague.
> Throughout Black's time at Standard, I think I am correct in saying it
> was
> a public company, financially precarious perhaps but nonetheless
> public.
> 2. Certainly, there was rivalry between Black and Lyons at Jaguar.
> Remember, Lyons when he moved SS to Coventry was selling highly
> attractive
> (for the day) motorcycle side-cars and this business rapidly extended
> to
> building delightful body variations on other manufacturers chassis and
> engine/driveline assemblies. It was obviously an attractive
> proposition for
> Lyons to do this because he avoided development costs of his own.
> Standard
> (under Black's direction) not only made their own cars but also sold
> these
> complete running chassis to SS/Jaguar and another local bodybuilder
> called
> Avon. Indeed, the ubiquitous Jaguar six cylinder XK twin cam engine on
> which Bill Heynes and his team worked such wondrous miracles, actually
> started life as a Standard inline six cylinder side valve of 2.5
> litres. It
> was Heynes' skills that took that same engine into entirely new stages
> of
> development and performance. As the world knows, Jaguar went its own
> way
> and ............ (now its a Ford)
> 3. Finally, I must challenge your comment (if I have understood it)
> that
> Triumph came to Standard as a possible challenge to Jaguar. It may
> well
> have done as part of the Black/Lyons rivalry but the real issue is
> that
> Triumph as an entity went bust and Black got to it before Lyons.
> Indeed
> there is a climate of opinion in Coventry to this day that had Jaguar
> bought Triumph, the Triumph name might have adversely affected
> Jaguar's
> image and possibly might have led to a two tier Jaguar range - i.e.
> the
> expensive-er and the cheap-er. As things turned out, on the longer
> term, I
> feel that Triumph did better in Black's hands than it might have done
> in
> Lyons's - but what once was, has now gone - for ever and no-one will
> ever
> know.
> John Macartney
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> End Snip <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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