Wes
I agree, after being involved in land speed racing for more than a decade I
personally feel the FIA/FIM is a
useless/meaningless/uninterested/organization when related to LSR. When it
come to Formula 1, well their obviously the premier organization.
As an example, I think that Drag Racing Records should be certified by the
drag racing community, not FIA. Weather were talking about Soccer, Golf,
Down Hill Skiing or what ever, those records should be certified by that
sports community.
Who is better suited to certify World/International Records involving land
speed racing, SCTA/BNI, USFRA or ECTA, or the FIA who doesn't even keep an
updated list of records, and how long does it take them to complete the
certification? LSR, to them is a nuisance. We can do better on our own.
As for rules. Yes we need rules, but not FIA rules. The one hour turn
around, for example, although not a bad rule, is just not practical for
anything except a private meets. And look at the lack of classes. SCTA has
been refining their rules for 60 years now, very practical, suitable and
fair to all. They have basically been adopted by the boys down under also.
It's time the LSR community develops it's own standards and claims it's
rightful place in Land Speed Racing WORLD record history and let the FIA
race around their parking lots.
John Beckett, LSR #79
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wester S Potter" <wspotter@jps.net>
To: "Malcolm Pittwood" <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
Cc: "land-speed list" <land-speed@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: On line chat topic
> Malcolm, List,
> This always reminds me of the ball games when I was a kid when the one who
> owned the ball got mad about something and took his ball and went home.
> The honor has generally gone out of the International record claiming game
> unless we all accept the same rules.
> Accurate records are established as accurate timing equipment is used.
When
> Teddy Tetzlaff first ran on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1914 his runs
were
> timed by a group of men holding stop watches. His stop watch timed speed
> was marginally faster than the same car had gone at Daytona (or Ormond
> Beach) four years previously ... in the 147 MPH plus range. I have no
> knowledge of how the car was timed at Daytona. The American Automobile
> Association disallowed the Bonneville timing because they didn't accept
> times using a stopwatch under ten miles or one hour in time.
> When Ab Jenkins, Malcolm Campbell, George E. T. Eyston and John Cobb were
> fighting it out for flying mile and endurance records in the thirties on
the
> salt, their timing was accepted by all parties involved including the AAA
> and USAC who timed and certified those records. This was because they
were
> all running at the same approximate time of year on the same course and
each
> was observing the others times and runs.
> When Otto Crocker timed the runs at Bonneville Speed Week in the early
> years, all the hot rod competetors accepted his times for the same reason.
> The Salt Lake City Chamber of Commerce who staged the races accepted his
> equipment.
> With the advent of computer timing and the available print-outs it depends
> on the certification of the accuracy of the computer. We use a software
> program for USFRA that is a slight modification of the one used by NHRA to
> time drag racing. We could give reaction times, times for any distance
> along the course, entry qualifying trap times, kilo, mile, exit trap
times
> and any combination of the above. All we have to do is accurately set up
> the electric eyes, distances and wire. SCTA/BNI clocks use software that
> gives the same accurate kind of readouts.
> At one time the AAA, USAC, FIA and other governing bodies owned the only
> certified clocks and were used for record runs because they were accepted
by
> all involved. Today my nine year old neighbor could write a software
> program with a speed break down to several decimal points more accurate
than
> their timers were. The FIA officials who certify record runs just look at
> the set up and say OK. They don't even own clocks to time runs on the
salt!
> The whole world of speed claims is academic unless there is the HONOR
> involved among racers running at different times on different courses to
use
> accurate equipment, measurements and to follow accepted timing practice
and
> procedures.
> Let the FIA play with their multi-million dollar Formula 1 toys and
> politics. Who cares that they don't attempt to be up to date enough to
have
> defined classes for various body styles, fuels etc.? Other than respect
for
> Andy Green and the whole Thrust program for what they acomplished, does
> their wingless airplane record change anything essential with wheel driven
> racing? It's a lot like asking someone else to critique your bedroom
> activities or asking an official from a Rugby federation to take over the
> NFL. Who needs them? We don't want someone like Bernie Ecclestone (sp?)
> sticking his nose in land-speed racing just as the FIA doesn't want Gary
> Allen or Mike Manghelli trying to dictate to their sport. If Nolan
White's
> 442 MPH time was clocked either two ways or two times as conditions
> permitted, on accurate equipment ( and I believe it was ), would Al
Teague
> and Bill Summers and Don Vesco recognize his run as a wheel driven record?
> Would Andy Green ?
> If the racers on Lake Gairdner, Australia this March turn in some
> incredible, faster than existing record, times will the 200 MPH Club,
> SCTA/BNI and USFRA recognize those times or more importantly will their
> amateur land-speed racing peers in the USA?
> That's my quarters worth.
> Wes Potter ... speaking only as an involved watcher of land speed racing
for
> over fifty years.
> ----------
> > From: Malcolm Pittwood <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> > To: "Land-speed@autox.team.net" <Land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > Subject: On line chat topic
> > Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:38:42 -0500
> >
> >Hi everyone,
> >Due to the time difference with Britain I will not be able to join the 3
am
> >chat with a working day to follow.
> >Just to help the topic of BNI/SCTA/USFRA times for runs, working time in
> >impound and FIM & FIA record attempts, heres by two pence worth.
> >If your club or sanctioning body is not an affiliated body of the FIA or
> >FIM then why worry what you call your records. To these two World
> >governing bodies you are just running club events for "local" records -
> >that may offend some of your organisers and many of the racers but that
is
> >how they are seen. Remember there is no differentiation by body style in
> >their rules, only capacity divisions. Your 'local' record in the classes
> >may be faster than the FIA or FIM listings but these two bodies will
never
> >ever acknowledge them as International/World records.
> >On four wheels, as Mike Jenkins explained last week there is only one
> >"World Record" - the Thrust SSC outright speed of 763.035 mph. On two
> >wheels there are FIA World Records for ALL capacity classes for the
> >variety of distances and duration records.
> >ACCUS is one USA based FIM affiliated organisation as is USAC but I do
not
> >know if they have any input into anything other than individual ouright
> >records. Perhaps someone could explain from your side of the pond why
they
> >are not at Bonneville ? The AMA is the USA motorcycle affiliated body
and
> >they seem to interact only with the "Land Speed Authority" organisation.
> >Is that so ?
> >The 'four hour maintenance working rule' in impound makes little sense to
> >me, as the return run to achieve a record is the day following the first
> >pass any way.
> >The FIA 1 hour ruling and the FIM 2 hour ruling for 1 mile timed
distances,
> >is to ensure that the two runs occur in (almost) stable conditions on one
> >day - much more difficult to do ? Because little work is allowed by
either
> >sanctioning body except general safety checks and maintenance on the
> >vehicle between runs you do not need time to "rebuild the vehicle from
the
> >ground up".
> >With strong comments expressed on the list I do not expect to see any
> >changes in the way the USA do things in general at Bonneville meetings.
> >Some US racers will dip deep into their pockets to get International
> >(FIA/FIM) recognition because they can rightly be compared directly with
> >the best of the past. Brits will come across to your US deserts to set
> >World Records in their own events. Bonneville Speed Week will continue
> >for another 50 years as a wonderful sporting event. Can anyone see this
> >changing ?
> >Have a good chat tonight.
> >Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England.
> >
> >
>
>
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