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Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip

To: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure or clutch slip
From: Roger Grace <roggrace@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:26:30 -0700
Cc: Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <000001da94ac$ef5baf60$ce130e20$@alexarevel.plus.com> <CAB3i7LLa7eF4uRmt7C3SiFD=bQ1nrr+60wVbs5=fcNciD1xDvg@mail.gmail.com> <CAB3i7LJ5_SSymnt7DmEnGVTdpLupbciviT2gsQpzLCW+JKNVDg@mail.gmail.com>
--===============7361468922473527330==

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Agree - I had to re read your note to be sure which clutch you were talking
about.
If you have the GB cover still on you, could disable the OD by
disconnecting the solenoid - probably easier than removing the operating
valve.
Regarding testing the OD relay, yes as MS says they usually fail positively
and usually the operating coil.
To bench test:
With a 12V supply on W1 and W2 you should hear a clear click for ON and OFF
This would prove that the coil is OK
Contacts not quite as easy to verify.
Same test as above but an ohm meter on lowest scale across C1 and C2
An anologue meter is preferable and you can see if there is any dithering
when the contacts close. Operating should be positive and crisp.
I would also be suspicious of the TS - they can have some weird failure
modes and go out of adjustment,
rg



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On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 7:39=E2=80=AFAM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail=
.com>
wrote:

> *Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the repair!!*
>
> First you need to confirm whether the clutch (on the flywheel) or the
> overdrive is causing the slippage.
> To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdrive as a badly
> misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar symptoms.
> To do this I would remove the overdrive operating valve completely. (Ther=
e
> are other ways but this is absolutely definitive).
> Now drive the car up a long hill where you are amle to use full throttle
> at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a few seconds. If it is the clutc=
h
> (on the flywheel) that is causing the slippage these operating conditions=
.
> Test this a few times to be sure.
> If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the overdrive clutch is at
> fault.
>
> Step 1 completed. Please report results.
>
>
>
> On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 9:03 a.m. Michael Salter, <michaelsalter@gmail.co=
m>
> wrote:
>
>> In my experience relays are yes/no. No "maybe".
>>
>> On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via Healeys, <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You may recall the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year. L=
ong
>>> story short(ish)=E2=80=A6
>>>
>>> OD was slipping in and out depending on oil temperature.
>>>
>>> Correctly diagnosed pressure. Checked with gauge.
>>>
>>> Attempted rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as accumulator and related =
seals.
>>>
>>> Stymied as could not get pump out. Turned out to have been =E2=80=9Cfix=
ed=E2=80=9D at
>>> some stage with some form of =E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was=
 coming
>>> loose/apart.
>>>
>>> Took it up to OD Spares who fixed it..new housing etcetc
>>>
>>> Why not a new clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the ar=
ea looking
>>> at a 30+ yr old item.
>>>
>>> New clutch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy, wouldn=E2=80=99t engage/disengage/pl=
ay at all.
>>>
>>> Gearbox out again.
>>>
>>> Refit clutch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake=
.
>>>
>>> Refit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. Same
>>>
>>> Can=E2=80=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm b=
y now.
>>>
>>> Turned out that the new clutch kit was defective. (Thanks Mirek) (Genui=
ne
>>> B&B from AHSpares).
>>>
>>> New one did work.
>>>
>>> Saga over until yesterday.
>>>
>>> Same sort of symptoms=E2=80=A6..
>>>
>>> All=E2=80=99s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded slippage(=
?) starts.
>>> But it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds me more of a slipping clut=
ch. (But NO
>>> smell)
>>>
>>> Symptoms continue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.
>>>
>>> Symptoms reduce at speed.
>>>
>>> Yes, plenty of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure
>>> it=E2=80=99s 40wt non-detergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or =
vice
>>> -versa). Am confident in state of the filter, magnets etc.
>>>
>>> No, I have not pressure tested it yet and yes, I dread restarting the
>>> whole bloody process all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I can face ta=
king the box
>>> out again once, let alone multiple times.
>>>
>>> What I want and experience tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a mi=
racle cure
>>> !
>>>
>>> One initial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work or not work? ie=
, can
>>> the relay hover between on and off which might lead to the OD coming in
>>> and out? I think that could happen if the switch is off but the unit
>>> still hasn=E2=80=99t got the message to disengage from the bulkhead swi=
tch.
>>>
>>> And a supplementary=E2=80=A6.how do I bench test the relay?
>>>
>>> Simon
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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>

--000000000000c472ce0616b11022
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Agree - I had to re read your note to be sure which c=
lutch you were talking about.</div><div>If you have the GB cover still on y=
ou, could disable the OD by disconnecting the solenoid - probably easier th=
an removing the operating valve.</div><div>Regarding testing the OD relay, =
yes as MS says they usually fail positively and usually the operating coil.=
</div><div>To bench test:</div><div>With a 12V supply on W1 and W2 you shou=
ld hear a clear click for ON and OFF</div><div>This would prove that the co=
il is OK</div><div>Contacts not quite as easy to verify.</div><div>Same tes=
t as above but an ohm meter on lowest scale across C1 and C2</div><div>An a=
nologue meter is preferable and you can see if there is any dithering when =
the contacts close. Operating should be positive and crisp.</div><div>I wou=
ld also be suspicious of the TS - they can have some weird failure modes an=
d go out of adjustment,</div><div>rg<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div=
><div id=3D"m_-7026411280735381914DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br=
><table style=3D"border-top:1px solid #d3d4de"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"widt=
h:55px;padding-top:13px"><a href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_=
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6" height=3D"29" style=3D"width:46px;height:29px"></a></td><td style=3D"wid=
th:470px;padding-top:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,He=
lvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free.<a href=3D"http://www.avg.c=
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35381914_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"></a=
></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 7:39=E2=80=AFAM Michael Salter &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><b><u>Correct diagnosis is 1/2 the re=
pair!!</u></b></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>First you need to confirm w=
hether the clutch (on the flywheel) or the overdrive is causing the slippag=
e.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">To do this you ABSOLUTELY MUST disable the overdr=
ive as a badly misadjuster overdrive operating valve can produce similar sy=
mptoms.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">To do this I would remove the overdriv=
e operating valve completely. (There are other ways but this is absolutely =
definitive).</div><div dir=3D"auto">Now drive the car up a long hill where =
you are amle to use full throttle at around 3000 RPM (maximum torque) for a=
 few seconds. If it is the clutch (on the flywheel) that is causing the sli=
ppage these operating conditions. Test this a few times to be sure.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">If there is no slippage we have confirmed that the overdriv=
e clutch is at fault.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">St=
ep 1 completed. Please report results.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 9:03 a.m. Michael Sa=
lter, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">mich=
aelsalter@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">In my experience relays are yes/no. No=
 &quot;maybe&quot;.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon., Apr. 22, 2024, 8:08 a.m. Simon Lachlan via Heal=
eys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>






<div>


<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">You may =
recall the very extended overdrive and clutch saga last year.</font></span>=
<span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb=
"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> <font face=3D"Ti=
mes New Roman">Long story short(ish)=E2=80=A6</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">OD was s=
lipping in and out depending on oil temperature.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Correctl=
y diagnosed pressure. Checked with gau</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></=
span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">ge.</font=
></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Attempte=
d rebuild=E2=80=A6going only so far as</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></=
span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> <font face=3D"Times New Roman">accumula=
tor and related seals.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Stymied<=
/font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><fon=
t face=3D"Times New Roman"> as could not get pump out. Turned out to have b=
een =E2=80=9Cfixed=E2=80=9D at some stage with some form of</font></span><s=
pan lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb">=
</span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"> =E2=80=9Cchemical metal=E2=80=9D which was coming loose/apart.=
</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Took it =
up to O</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></spa=
n><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-=
gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">D</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en=
-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"> Spares who=
 fi</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><s=
pan lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb">=
<font face=3D"Times New Roman">xed it..new housing etcetc</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Why not =
a new clutch I thought? Sensible while you=E2=80=99re in the area lookin</f=
ont></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span la=
ng=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font =
face=3D"Times New Roman">g at a 30+ yr old item.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">New clut=
ch=E2=80=A6no good. Noisy</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span la=
ng=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span=
><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">, wouldn=E2=80=99t</fo=
nt></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lan=
g=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> <font =
face=3D"Times New Roman">engage/disengage/play at all</font></span><span la=
ng=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span=
><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New R=
oman">.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Gearbox =
out again.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Refit cl=
utch. Presumed I=E2=80=99d made some beginner=E2=80=99s mistake.</font></sp=
an></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Re</font=
></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman">fit gearbox=E2=80=A6no good. Same</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Can=E2=
=80=99t recall whether I tried again. Lost count and enthusiasm by now.</fo=
nt></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Turned o=
ut that the new clu</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span=
 lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">tch kit was defective. (Than=
ks Mirek)</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></s=
pan><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"e=
n-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"> (Genui</font></span><span lang=3D"en-=
gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span la=
ng=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">ne =
B&amp;B from AHSpares).</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><=
span lang=3D"en-gb"></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">New one =
did work.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Saga ove=
r</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><spa=
n lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><f=
ont face=3D"Times New Roman"> until yesterday.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Same sor=
t of symptoms=E2=80=A6..</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">All=E2=
=80=99s well for first 10 or so miles. Then the dreaded slippage(?) s</font=
></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman">tarts. But it=E2=80=99s not quite the same. Reminds =
me more of a slipping clutch. (But NO smell)</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Symptoms=
 continue if it=E2=80=99s in or out of OD.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Symptoms=
 reduce at speed.</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en=
-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span l=
ang=3D"en-gb"></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Yes, ple=
nty of oil. Over the full mark. Looks very clean. Pretty sure it=E2=80=99s =
40wt</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><=
span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"=
> <font face=3D"Times New Roman">n</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span=
><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-g=
b"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">on-d</font></=
span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"=
en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=
=3D"Times New Roman">etergent topped up with 30wt non-detergent. (Or vice</=
font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span l=
ang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font=
 face=3D"Times New Roman">-versa).</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span=
><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-g=
b"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> <font face=3D"Times New Roman">Am confident=
 in state of the filter, magnets etc.</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></s=
pan><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"e=
n-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">No, I ha=
ve not pressure tested it yet</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><spa=
n lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></=
span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"> and yes, I dread =
restarting the whole bloody process all over again. I=E2=80=99m not sure I =
can face taking the box out</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"> again once, let alo=
ne multiple times.</font></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">What I w=
ant and experience tells me I=E2=80=99m unlikely to get is a miracle cure</=
font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span l=
ang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font=
 face=3D"Times New Roman">!</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></sp=
an><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">One ini<=
/font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span =
lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><fon=
t face=3D"Times New Roman">tial question=E2=80=A6..do OD relays either work=
 or not work? ie, can the relay hover between on and off</font></span><span=
 lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></s=
pan><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"> <font face=3D"Times N=
ew Roman">which might lead to the OD coming in and out? I think that could =
happen if the switch is off but the</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></spa=
n><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-=
gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"> unit still =
hasn=E2=80=99t got the message to disengage from the bulkhead switch.</font=
></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">And a su=
pplementary=E2=80=A6.how</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lan=
g=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span>=
<span lang=3D"en-gb"> <font face=3D"Times New Roman">d</font></span><span l=
ang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></spa=
n><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New =
Roman">o I bench test</font></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=
=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><=
span lang=3D"en-gb"> <font face=3D"Times New Roman">the relay?</font></span=
><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-g=
b"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span></p>

<p dir=3D"LTR"><span lang=3D"en-gb"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">Simon</f=
ont></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span la=
ng=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span><span lang=3D"en-gb"></span=
></p>

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