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All good suggestions and I would like to add a couple more on areas =
which have affected me in the past:
=20
The 8 springs are often referred to as =E2=80=9C4 long and 4 =
short=E2=80=9D but the springs are often approximately the same length. =
Also, some are left hand wound and some are right hand wound. Some have =
a paint mark (I=E2=80=99ve seen white, red, and blue) to differentiate =
the difference. =20
=20
To be sure I=E2=80=99m using the right ones in the right place, I test =
the springs by compressing each one to check their bound length. I put =
it over a long threaded 5/16=E2=80=9D rod and compress with a nut on =
each end. Then measure or observe the bound length. The =
=E2=80=9Clong=E2=80=9D spring will always be about 3/8=E2=80=9D to =
=C2=BD=E2=80=9D longer when completely compressed. If a long spring is =
put in the wrong location, it will become coil bound when the overdrive =
is activated. The result is that the clutch will not move enough to =
reach the brake ring and the OD will not engage. Don=E2=80=99t ask me =
how I know this.
=20
Also, as Henry and John mentioned, the splines must be aligned before =
the shaft can be fully inserted and an old or spare A-type mainshaft =
(any TR2 through TR6 one will do since you are only using the back end =
of it). How to get them aligned can be tricky once the OD is assembled. =
It=E2=80=99s not just a matter of rotating the rear flange as you might =
think. If the inside clutch face is against the annulus taper, both =
splines will rotate together when the rear flange is turned. In order =
to get a relative movement to re-align them, the clutch must be pulled =
away from the annulus so the two can rotate separately until they are =
realigned.
=20
Hope this helps.
=20
Mike Hado
=20
From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of R. John Lye =
via Fot
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 10:35 AM
To: yellow04@tr4racer.com; jaboruch@yahoo.com
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
=20
Hi Joe B..
Henry says " you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit "
This is very important, as I learned the hard way the first time that I =
put
an OD back together. I thought that I had the splines line up, but in =
fact,
I only had the first set lined up and snapped a plate tightening it =
down.
Hope that helps,
John =20
On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400, yellow04 via Fot =
<fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
=20
Joe,
If your gearbox has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in =
all likelihood the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the =
back of the gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or =
didn't use any kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the =
problem when leaks slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing =
to replace the adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is =
not huge and you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of =
oil leaking about.
The adapter plate is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only =
the adapter plate is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the =
adapter plate, remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start =
working the nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure =
should separate the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the =
8 springs as you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out =
they like to roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that =
cleaning the gasket surface you will not be messing with that.
I use the little bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs, =
seems to work well for me.
The six bolts that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox =
case are now visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just =
found the source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket =
surfaces and reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive =
gearbox. Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they =
have threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads. =
They have been working for me. These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always =
a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go =
the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run =
the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is installed.
The last adapter plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I =
believe it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started =
by Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really =
compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito =
might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order =
it from Rimmers along with those 6 bolts.=20
Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, =
you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 =
springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. =
Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can =
completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety =
wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is =
pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place =
in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD =
mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the =
box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the =
gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and =
washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD =
unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts. =
Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go =
inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the =
sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter =
plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs =
correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit =
home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove the =
safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are good to =
go.
If you run into problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line =
up the splines in the OD unit, feel free to reach out!
Henry
On 2023-09-20 19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:
I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking =
from near the adapter plate. I have never taken one apart. Can I just =
separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter =
plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am =
checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without =
needing to take the OD apart further? There is a youtube video that =
shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able. Thoughts? =
JoeB
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rjl6n@cstone.net
=20
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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>All good =
suggestions and I would like to add a couple more on areas which have =
affected me in the past:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The 8 springs are =
often referred to as =E2=80=9C4 long and 4 short=E2=80=9D but the =
springs are often approximately the same length.=C2=A0 Also, some are =
left hand wound and some are right hand wound.=C2=A0 Some have a paint =
mark (I=E2=80=99ve seen white, red, and blue) to differentiate the =
difference.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>To be sure =
I=E2=80=99m using the right ones in the right place, I test the springs =
by compressing each one to check their bound length.=C2=A0 I put it over =
a long threaded 5/16=E2=80=9D rod and compress with a nut on each end. =
Then measure or observe the bound length.=C2=A0 The =
=E2=80=9Clong=E2=80=9D spring will always be about 3/8=E2=80=9D to =
=C2=BD=E2=80=9D longer when completely compressed.=C2=A0 If a long =
spring is put in the wrong location, it will become coil bound when the =
overdrive is activated.=C2=A0 The result is that the clutch will not =
move enough to reach the brake ring and the OD will not engage.=C2=A0 =
Don=E2=80=99t ask me how I know this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Also, as Henry =
and John mentioned, the splines must be aligned before the shaft can be =
fully inserted and an old or spare A-type mainshaft (any TR2 through TR6 =
one will do since you are only using the back end of it).=C2=A0 How to =
get them aligned can be tricky once the OD is assembled.=C2=A0 =
It=E2=80=99s not just a matter of rotating the rear flange as you might =
think.=C2=A0 If the inside clutch face is against the annulus taper, =
both splines will rotate together when the rear flange is turned. =
=C2=A0In order to get a relative movement to re-align them, the clutch =
must be pulled away from the annulus so the two can rotate separately =
until they are realigned.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Hope this =
helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mike =
Hado<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p><=
/span></a></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>R. John Lye =
via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 21, 2023 10:35 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> yellow04@tr4racer.com; jaboruch@yahoo.com<br><b>Cc:</b> =
fot@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] A-type OD =
leaks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi Joe =
B..<br><br>Henry says " you need to line up two sets of splines in =
the OD unit "<br><br>This is very important, as I learned the hard =
way the first time that I put<br>an OD back together. I thought =
that I had the splines line up, but in fact,<br>I only had the first set =
lined up and snapped a plate tightening it down.<br><br>Hope that =
helps,<br>John <br><br>On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400, =
yellow04 via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Joe,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If your gearbox =
has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in all likelihood =
the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the back of the =
gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or didn't use any =
kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the problem when leaks =
slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing to replace the =
adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is not huge and =
you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of oil leaking =
about.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The adapter plate =
is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only the adapter plate =
is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the adapter plate, =
remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start working the =
nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure should separate =
the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the 8 springs as =
you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out they like to =
roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that cleaning the =
gasket surface you will not be messing with =
that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I use the little =
bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs, seems to work =
well for me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The six bolts =
that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox case are now =
visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just found the =
source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket surfaces and =
reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive gearbox. =
Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they have =
threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads. They =
have been working for me. These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always =
a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go =
the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run =
the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is =
installed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The last adapter =
plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I believe =
it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started by =
Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really =
compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito =
might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order =
it from Rimmers along with those 6 =
bolts. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Assembling the OD =
unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, you need to line up =
two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 springs and make sure =
you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. Many ways to accomplish =
this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can completely drive you crazy. =
The easiest way I have found is to safety wire the pump plunger, install =
the pump drive cam and make sure it is pointing away from the pump, =
apply the sealant to the gasket and place in on the OD unit, align the =
splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD mainshaft is really helpful with =
this) and offer up the OD unit to the box. Slowly slide the unit on =
assuring everything is lined up until the gasket is almost touching the =
adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and washers on the long studs only =
a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING =
the rear flange until it hits the nuts. Then you install the 8 springs =
in their correct position, (shorts go inboard, longs go outboard) by =
stuffing them onto their posts on the sliding member then levering the =
other end onto the nubs on the adapter plate. Take a really good look to =
make sure you have all 8 springs correctly installed, then tighten the =
nuts equally to draw the OD unit home. Then install the 4 nuts and =
washers on the short studs, remove the safety wire on the oil pump =
plunger, refill with oil and you are good to =
go.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If you run into =
problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line up the splines =
in the OD unit, feel free to reach out!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Henry<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p id=3Dreply-intro><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On 2023-09-20 =
19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'><div =
id=3Dreplybody1><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's =
leaking from near the adapter plate. I have never taken one =
apart. Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the =
gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an =
uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then =
reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further? There is =
a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is =
do able. Thoughts? =
JoeB<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>__________________=
_____________________________<br>fot@autox.team.net<br><br>http://www.fot=
-racing.com<br><br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Archive: =
http://autox.team.net/archive =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rjl6n@cstone.net<br><br> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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http://www.fot-racing.com
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