The lobe is that part of the cam that is not base circle.
some cams open the valve more rapidly than they close it. This
shifts the max lift point to the front side a little.
Mr. Elgin instructed me to go to the degree marks corresponding
to .050 before and after the point of maximum lift and split that
in half; the resulting reading would be the true lobe center.
I had a devil of a time the first one of his cams I degreed.
art de armond
From: John Styduhar
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:21 PM
To: riverside at southslope.net
Cc: patrickmannion1 at netzero.com ; Duncan Charlton ; Triumph 'Friends of
Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts
The definition of cam lobe center line is the point of maximum lift. ?
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:19 PM, riverside--- via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
to further complicate, the lobe center may not be at the
point of maximum lift.
art de armond
From: patrickmannion1--- via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:25 PM
To: duncan.charlton54 at gmail.com
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts
Hi Duncan, John and all,
I sent the proper information to Newmans in June and again this week but
haven't had any response.I was wrong when I posted the lift figure, on Monday.
When I didn't get a response from Newman in June with accurate timing events I
through my notes in a box and misread them the other night, the lift was
actually .015" less than specified in lift at cam which would be .022" less
lift at the valve.
The total lift, rise figure at TDC, and the figure at which max rise should
occur did not match what their website specified. The two sentence response
from them was like a politician saying "trust me", it only stated
"The best way to set the camshaft is that you have maximum valve lift on the
inlet 110? after top dead centre" with no other information to second verify
eventsIn the past when we've ever had a figure on a timing card that didn't
match our cam grinder would get back and be able to say, check timing events at
this lift and verify by checking lobe centers and he would give you ways to
verify that all was correct. His cams always worked great.
I have three different types of cams, I'm going to plot and graph them later
in the week but will just use a camshaft from now on from a source I trust.
thanks for you responses
Pat Mannion, Santa Cruz
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Duncan Charlton <duncan.charlton54 at gmail.com>
To: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Cc: patrickmannion1 at netzero.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:50:56 -0500
Hi Patrick,
You didn?t say whether you determined how many degrees of advance/retard
you?re putting in by setting max lift at 110? ATDC. Confirming that figure
ought to give you some confidence that what they?re telling you is in the
ballpark. 2 to 4 degrees advance seems appropriate for a street engine.
Since you've been in the business for a while (I?ve heard your name in Morgan
circles for many years) I assume you already have the tools and knowledge to do
this, so I won?t go into a long-winded description of the process, but for
those reading this who haven?t done this before: put a degree wheel on the
crank, zero it at true TDC and measure lift at the cam or at the valve using a
dial indicator, starting a few degrees before max lift and ending a few degrees
after max lift to be sure you?ve found mean maximum lift. Do this for both
intake and exhaust and calculate the midpoint between those two mean maximum
lift points. That gives you the cam's ?zero? point. Decide whether to advance
or retard a few degrees from zero. Advancing moves torque lower down on the
rpm scale (but also decreases intake valve to piston clearance). I find I have
to plot this on paper so I can make sense of it and to make sure I don?t move
the the wrong direction in altering the valve timing.
Newman overstated lift by 34%. Wow.
Duncan
On Oct 23, 2017, at 2:48 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
?Follow the instructions for setting the cam and you will be fine. An
adjustable cam sprocket will make the job easier.
On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 11:54 AM, riverside--- via Fot <fot at
autox.team.net> wrote:
Yikes! I have always had great success with Dema's cams.
I hope his shop survived the fires.
art de armond
-----Original Message----- From: patrickmannion1--- via Fot
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 5:11 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts
Hello all,
I have always nearly always built Triumph TR4 engines with cams from Dema
Elgin Superlobes in Santa Rosa. Occasionally I had installed other cams
supplied by customers that had a valid timing card supplied. I decided with the
English pound being low vs the Dollar I would try the PH1 Cam from Newman Cams
in England. I had heard good things about their PH1 cam as being a great street
cam.
When installing the cam. Information on there website stated peak cam
lift was .295" (it is only .220") resulting in a lift at the valve being .120"
less than stated. Starting off with" incorrect lift figure all valve event
figures on the website are wrong. After several emails I got a two sentence
email saying ,set Intake for max lift at 110 degrees ATDC and the cam will work,
After doing lots of engine modifications I would like a more scientific
answer than the cam will work. Has anyone used this cam or a Newman cam before,
or found that the information supplied by Newman was incorrect. I hate to eat
the cost of the camshafts I bought or incur the cost of sending them back to
England, but I would have no confidence in using a camshaft without having a
correct timing card for the camshaft. -
thanks
Pat Mannion
Santa Cruz California
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