Bob,
Several years ago I had the opportunity to buy that car from a guy in
Huntington who raced it after Dave sold it. There were many "interesting"
things about that car. He cut open the frame and put something (lead?) where
the chassis rises into the front suspension and something in the rear to put
some weight in the lowest places of the frame. He also cut holes in the
areas you can't see to lighten the body such as the door supports and the
like. Ed Unkle purchased the car after I told him about it and gave him the
info. Craig Halstead bought it and probably still has it. If I had the room
and the $$ I might have bought it but . . .
Unfortunately the other reason was that there was no engine or tranny and it
was pretty rough.
The same guy (Waldorf?) wanted to also sell me his mint race-ready '72 510
which I shoulda bought.
'66 Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: RWM <RWM@RWMann.com>
To: Roadster list <datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Injecting foam
> Dave Manzolini, a NYR SCCA C/D-Production 2000 racer in the late 1970's,
> who masterminded the Commander data acquisition system (allegedly from
> Rome Air Development Center Air Force surplus parts), used injectable
> epoxy foam to fill the rear quarters, doors and confined spaces,
> including under the dash. As I recall, he explained the foam limited
> body damage in close quarters racing (Dave had a Gilles Villeneuve-like
> driving style). He was a wily one, and who knows, the foam could have
> been in part for for torsional rigidity.
>
> - Bob Mann
>
> Gary McCormick wrote:
> >
> > The key phrase here is "injecting foam into the body". I was referring
to Mike Kerr's
> > statement regarding injecting foam into the frame (see quoted message
below). Since my '70
> > 2000 is a California car, and therefore has a perfect body ;^ ) (not to
mention having
> > been garaged it's entire life), I have not had to do any body work on
the car, so I am not
> > too familiar with the body spaces where foam could be injected. Part of
the issue here is
> > the relative stiffness of the frame and the body. The Roadster's frame
is a relatively
> > stiff structure as it stands, and due to the size and shape of the
cavities would stand to
> > gain little or no additional structural strength from the foam. The body
of the car, being
> > fabricated of much lighter gage material, derives much of its stiffness
from its shape,
> > and from being rigidly attached to the much stronger frame.
> >
> > Looking at the PDF files of the parts book as a reference to the body
construction, the
> > only areas I can determine might be candidates are the spaces in the
fenders immediately
> > fore and aft of the door openings.
> >
> ... snip
> >
> > Gary McCormick
> > '70 2000 (with gradually increasing amount of clear space around it in
the garage - woo
> > hoo!)
> > San José, CA
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
> >
> > datsunmike wrote:
> >
> > > Although I didn't actually drive the 300Z they used the foam in/on(?)
they
> > > said that it provided a lot of extra structural strength, so much so
that
> > > when they tested the Z after injecting the foam into the body "the
chassis
> > > now almost feels like it has a roll cage."
> > >
> > > While the roadster is not a unit body design I can't see how this
product
> > > would not stiffen the body and frame of our cars. Compared to my
Miata, the
> > > roadster is fairly loose and has considerable cowl shake. Anything
that can
> > > tighten it up for better handling would be greatly appreciated
especially
> > > when no fabrication is needed.
> > >
> > > '66 Mike
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Gary McCormick <svgkm@halley.ca.essd.northgrum.com>
> > > To: Marc Sayer <msayer1@concentric.net>
> > > Cc: Mike Kerr <mikekerr@innercite.com>; datsunmike
<datsunmike@nyc.rr.com>;
> > > Roadster list <datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 1:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re:
> > >
> > > > I question whether filling the interior of the frame members with
this
> > > material will
> > > > significantly increase stiffness - the Roadster's frame members
appear to
> > > be pretty
> > > > substantial already. A foam filling, even though the material
itself, when
> > > set, is quite
> > > > stiff, is not going to contribute materially to either the
torsional,
> > > lateral or
> > > > longitudinal stiffness of the car. The loads that affect the frame
members
> > > are going to
> > > > subject a foam filling to shear stresses - stresses to which these
> > > materials are not
> > > > sufficiently resistant for them to be beneficial. Your best bet is
to
> > > treat the frame for
> > > > external rust resistance to prevent corrosion from weakening it,
rather
> > > than attempting to
> > > > use an ineffective means of attempting to strengthen it.
> > > >
> > > > Gary McCormick
> > > > San José, CA
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ------------------
> > > >
> > > > Marc Sayer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Mike Kerr wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > one problem though if it traps moisture it can give you probems
with
> > > rusting
> > > > > > out the body
> > > > > > there was this house that they used some new type of foam as
> > > insolation
> > > > > > that caused all the nails to rust that held it together , it had
> > > formed some
> > > > > > sort of acid that did the damage .. Would be a bummer if you
pumped
> > > foam
> > > > > > inot your car only to have it rust away..
> > > > > > But if this stuff is safe it could be used in the frame of the
roaster
> > > to
> > > > > > stiffen it ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike is absolutely right. Though the stuff is used for just this
purpose
> > > > > in new cars and therefore isn't going to produce rust or corrosion
in
> > > > > and of itself, if the box members being filled aren't properly
prepared
> > > > > first, you are going to have problems. I haven't seen the
instruction
> > > > > for these products, and they may give specific dos and don'ts But
I
> > > > > would think that all rust should be treated first with an agent
such as
> > > > > Rustmort or Ospho, which will convert the rust to a stable iron
oxide
> > > > > that is not reactive and will not corrode any further. Then a
coating of
> > > > > some sort might be in order, like a paint or something. As I say
the
> > > > > specific product may well have instructions as to how to use it in
an
> > > > > older car, once it is released for consumer use. Of course as it
is used
> > > > > now, during production of a new car, the situation is completely
> > > > > different.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Marc Sayer
> > > > > Editor/Publisher
> > > > > Z Car & Classic Datsun Magazine
> > > > > http://zcarmag.com
> > > > > Voice 541-726-6001
> > > > > Fax 541-746-0863/726-6001
> > > >
>
> --
> R.W. Mann & Company, Inc. > Airline Industry Analysis and Consulting
> Port Washington, NY 11050 > tel 516-944-0900, fax 516-944-7280
> mailto:info@RWMann.com > URL http://www.RWMann.com/
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