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Re: Leasing Versus Buying

To: <Dougie360@aol.com>, <atabacco@california.com>, <mrclem@telocity.com>
Subject: Re: Leasing Versus Buying
From: "Boris Elpiner" <boris@elpiner.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:33:25 -0700
Occasionally manufacturers offer a super discounted lease rates by
increasing the residual value and decreasing the interest rate. Back in 97
BMW was offering incredible leasing deals. I was leasing my M3 ($42K
sticker) for $468/month including tax. I've sold the car in 1999 for
substantially more than residual value of the lease. I don't recall all the
details, but I think I came slightly ahead in comparison with the outright
purchase. Only special promotional rates from car manufacturers will give
you such an inexpensive way to lease a vehicle.

One thing to remember is that leasing is just a different way to pay for
using a car. In case of a lease you are financing the depreciation of the
vehicle instead of the vehicle itself.  You don't own it, a leasing company
does. If they'll get an idea that you 're having a "good time" with THEIR
car on weekends, they may call a lease.  In any case, my rule #1 is not to
lease a vehicle I can't afford to purchase.

Boris
Y2K Boxster (it's mine:-))

----- Original Message -----
From: <Dougie360@aol.com>
To: <atabacco@california.com>; <mrclem@telocity.com>
Cc: <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Leasing Versus Buying


> Unless I'm doing the math wrong, the reason I leased my SAAB was that it
was
> cheaper than buying.
>
> Here is a current ad running in the papers:
> 2001 SAAB 9-3-SE Convertible  MSRP $41,770
>
> Lease:  499/month 36 months
> $3492 lease inception: includes 1st month lease payment, sec dep, acq fee
>
> Option to purchase at end of lease for: $20,049
>
> Therefore, cost of lease = 3492 + (35 x 499) = 20,957
>
> If I intended to buy the car, I would add the 20,049 which then totals
> $41,006.
>
> This looks like less then the MSRP.  Not to mention adding in the time
value
> of money (i.e. james' point about investing the upfront cash in a money
> market)
>
> Looks like a 0% interest charge.
>
> Why would anyone buy if there was anything higher than a 0% interest for
> financing?
>
> Doug
> 9-3 Viggen
>
> In a message dated 7/11/01 8:40:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> atabacco@california.com writes:
>
> << No you're absolutely right. Buying will almost always be better than
>  leasing. Leasing is useful only under certain (usually personal or
business)
>  circumstances. In the long run, buying and than amortizing the purchase
out
>  over the longest period possible will always result in the least dollar
per
>  mile cost. The old (before the tax laws changed) rule was, "If you can
>  afford to buy, lease". Optimally, you could look at purchasing a two to
>  three year old car (maybe off lease) that has taken its initial
depreciation
>  hit .Of course, leasing could allow the really competitive autox type
person
>  to field and campaign the newest "flavor of the month "car every two
years.
>  Tony
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Michael R. Clements" <mrclem@telocity.com>
>  To: "James Creasy" <black94pgt@pacbell.net>; "Anthony Tabacco"
>  <atabacco@california.com>; "Kelly, Katie" <kkelly@spss.com>
>  Cc: <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
>  Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 7:34 PM
>  Subject: RE: Leasing Versus Buying
>
>
>  > My experience regarding lease vs. buy is a bit different.
>  >
>  > For example, take my '95 RX-7. Bought it new in April '96 for $39k
>  including
>  > all taxes, fees, etc. Sold it in August '00 for $25k. Paid cash so no
>  > interest paid. Total cost of ownership: $14k + maintenance and about
$2.5k
>  > of high performance addons. The maintenance was purely oil changes, the
>  car
>  > had only a single minor problem and that was fixed under warranty at no
>  cost
>  > to myself.
>  >
>  > If I had leased the car, it would have cost at least $400 per month.
Call
>  it
>  > only 48 months for round numbers. That's $19200.00 in payments. I'd
still
>  > have to pay the oil changes even if I were leasing, and I still would
have
>  > bought the extra parts, so they cancel out of the equation.
>  >
>  > When all was said and done, I saved $5000 by buying instead of leasing,
>  and
>  > this is estimate is conservatively low. Not a bad chunk of change even
for
>  > guys who don't worry too much about money.
>  >
>  > As you can see, if the RX-7 did not hold its resale value, and I sold
it
>  for
>  > $20k instead of $25k, then it would have been a break-even between
leasing
>  &
>  > buying. This is what people mean when they say it's better to lease a
car
>  > that doesn't hold its value over time.
>  >
>  > I won't even mention my Honda Civic (OK well I guess I just did), which
I
>  > bought new for $7k back in 1990. The only unscheduled maintenance it
has
>  > ever had was a headlight that burned out. Cost me $10. The car still
runs
>  > like new and is about as close to free transportation as you can get.
Glad
>  I
>  > bought it instead of leasing!
>  >
>  > Now I'll pass on to you the advice my Dad gave me way back when, which
is
>  > the same advice that thousands of other Dads have given their kids, and
>  that
>  > has saved me money several times since:
>  >
>  > If you intend to keep the car for its useful life (or at least several
>  > years), and you expect it to be fairly reliable (or hold its resale
>  value),
>  > then buy it.
>  >
>  > If you want to drive a new set of wheels every 2-4 years, and you will
be
>  > driving cars that you expect might not be ultra reliable, or that might
>  not
>  > hold their resale value well, then consider leasing it.
>  >
>  > The future always has a degree of uncertainty so the buy/lease decision
is
>  > always an educated guess. My personal experience makes me lean towards
>  > buying unless there is a really compelling reason to lease.
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net
>  > [mailto:owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of James Creasy
>  > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 19:00
>  > To: Anthony Tabacco; Kelly, Katie
>  > Cc: ba-autox@autox.team.net
>  > Subject: Re: Leasing Versus Buying
>  >
>  >
>  > > sometimes cars that are expected to hold their value
>  > > well can be decent candidates for leasing.
>  >
>  > the nice thing about leases is that you know in advance exactly how
>  > depreciation you will paying.
>  >
>  > but buy or lease, you pay the same depreciation.  more on a fast
>  > depreciating car, less on a slower one.  typically the slower ones are
>  > slower depreciating in percentage, but are more in actual dollars.  in
a
>  > purchase, you can kind of hide the depreciation, but you are paying it
>  > none-the-less.
>  >
>  > the big disadvantage to a lease is that it is harder to get out of than
a
>  > purchase.
>  >
>  > -james c
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: Anthony Tabacco <atabacco@california.com>
>  > To: Kelly, Katie <kkelly@spss.com>
>  > Cc: <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
>  > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 6:20 PM
>  > Subject: Re: Leasing Versus Buying
>  >
>  >
>  > > Katie, last time I looked, whether the 2000 will live or die in
AStock
>  > > (they're going to rename the classes though) depends on the classing
of
>  > the
>  > > Boxter S. This is still under discussion. If the BoxterS stays SS,
the
>  Z06
>  > > will likely be able to edge it, if it goes to AStock, the S2000 could
>  have
>  > a
>  > > hard time.
>  > >
>  > > In response to the leasing question, I would note the old truism that
>  > there
>  > > are only three things that ought to be rented. Propriety (and
>  undoubtedly
>  > > diligent webmasters) would forbid their mention in a forum such as
this.
>  > > Suffice it to say cars are not one of them.  I do understand that
>  > dependiing
>  > > on market conditions, sometimes cars that are expected to hold their
>  value
>  > > well can be decent candidates for leasing.
>  > > Tony
>  > >
>  > > ----- Original Message -----
>  > > From: "Kelly, Katie" <kkelly@spss.com>
>  > > To: <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
>  > > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 5:21 PM
>  > > Subject: RE: Leasing Versus Buying
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > > A new car doesn't really make much sense. I've just been
corresponding
>  > > with
>  > > > Brent at SF Honda. He threw some numbers at me. A lease almost
sounds
>  > > > reasonable, except for one thing. I can't afford it. Not right now,
>  > > anyway.
>  > > >
>  > > > Any ideas as to how the Honda S2000 will fit in Solo II's new
classing
>  > > > structure next year?
>  > > >
>  > > > Doesn't matter. It's the year FOLLOWING that I'll even be able to
>  think
>  > > > about it.
>  > > >
>  > > > In the meantime, anybody know anything about road bikes?
>  > > >
>  > > > Katie
>  > > >
>  > > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > > From: James Creasy [mailto:black94pgt@pacbell.net]
>  > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 5:23 PM
>  > > > To: Clifford Richardson; kkelly@spss.com; ba-autox@autox.team.net
>  > > > Subject: Re: Leasing Versus Buying
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > if you want to drive a new car, then i see no reason not to lease,
>  > > > financially.
>  > > >
>  > > > new cars, leased or bought, cost you big time in the hidden specter
of
>  > > > depreciation.
>  > > >
>  > > > > -Buy if you don't intend on paying for a car for the rest of your
>  life
>  > > >
>  > > > but you see, this isnt true.  you pay depreciation.  at least with
a
>  > lease
>  > > > you can get out of it when the lease ends, or buy the car if you
like
>  > it.
>  > > > (only true for closed-end leases)
>  > > >
>  > > > however, to me all new cars are pretty much the same as the next,
so i
>  > > dont
>  > > > bother much with them.
>  > > >
>  > > > -james 'never bought a new car' creasy
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > ----- Original Message -----
>  > > > From: Clifford Richardson <the_brain7@hotmail.com>
>  > > > To: <kkelly@spss.com>; <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
>  > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:48 PM
>  > > > Subject: Re: Leasing Versus Buying
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > > Not sure how my thoughts would rate since my first autox run is
yet
>  to
>  > > > come
>  > > > > but here goes...
>  > > > >
>  > > > > My car's leased. An advantage for me is that I don't worry too
much
>  > > about
>  > > > > pushing her too hard. She's still under warranty and after I've
>  > whipped
>  > > > all
>  > > > > the performance out of her, I get to give her back and get a
fresh
>  > car.
>  > > > The
>  > > > > minus is the possibility that she and I may become a perfect
>  > driver/car
>  > > > > combo after so many miles. Returning her might set me back a bit
>  while
>  > I
>  > > > > essentially build a whole new relationship with a new vehicle.
You
>  > > > > know...learning how that car handles, it's moods, limits,
etc...No
>  two
>  > > car
>  > > > > is ever the same, just like no two g/fs...um...nevermind.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Did any of that make sense? :-) didn't think so...
>  > > > >
>  > > > > General thoughts:
>  > > > > -Don't use your leased car to auto-x if you're afraid of extra
>  charges
>  > > for
>  > > > > dings, etc...
>  > > > > -Lease if you don't drive long distances and you have excellent
>  credit
>  > > > > -Lease if you're loaded
>  > > > > -Buy if you don't intend on paying for a car for the rest of your
>  life
>  > > > > -Buy if you're gonna customize the car
>  > > > > -Lease if you want a brand new car every 3-5 years
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Just thoughts, I'm sure some of you may disagree.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > -Arnold
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > > > > From: "Kelly, Katie" <kkelly@spss.com>
>  > > > > To: "'ba-autox@autox.team.net'" <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
>  > > > > Subject: Leasing Versus Buying
>  > > > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:59:18 -0700
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>  > > > > From ba-autox-owner@autox.team.net Wed, 11 Jul 2001
16:13:43 -0700
>  > > > > Message-ID: <93456CB7A08FD211B33D00A0C99D6373701E19@SFEMAIL1>
>  > > > > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
>  > > > > Sender: owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net
>  > > > > Precedence: bulk
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Hey, anyone out there leasing their autocross vehicles? Can you
tell
>  > me
>  > > > the
>  > > > > pluses and minuses?
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Thanks,
>  > > > > Katie K.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > _________________________________________________________________
>
>
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